The King of Comedy with Stavros Halkias

This week we're covering Scorsese's The King of Comedy and we've got the real King of Comedy on to talk about how Rupert Pupkin should have done some open mic nights. The great Stavros Halkias returns to talk Marty, Bobby, Jerry Lewis, Sandra Bernhard, the Klumps, and his billion-dollar pitch for a new action franchise character named Fuccio Pussighetti. Plus - we all apologize to Jason Mantzoukas. Blank Check's Merch Store https://shopblankcheckpod.myshopify.com/ is back! The first round of pre-orders on new items ends September 20. Watch Jerry Lewis at the 30th Anniversary Screening of King of Comedy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNa3VK6yXzw Watch Don Rickles Tribute, from De Niro & Scorsese. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k3zfeEkLgU Listen to our perfect ep on Is This Thing On? https://podcasts.apple.com/cr/podcast/is-this-thing-on/id981330533?i=1000743665790 Check out Uncle Stav. https://www.netflix.com/title/82055929 Go see Tony https://a24films.com/films/tony Sign up for Check Book https://blankcheckpod.substack.com/welcome, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter https://x.com/blankcheckpod?lang=en, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/blankcheckpod/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@blankcheckpod?xmt=AQGzctAh4mbWTwYzCV1pzNT6AMV9o99EOfymi8TLR5mTde0 and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/blankcheckpodcast/! Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/s/gpcOkQr8Sv or Discord https://discord.gg/Q6YGSR3JrA For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com https://www.blankcheckpod.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:21Griffin Newman?

  I think it's that I look at my, my whole life and I see the awful things in my life and I turn it into a funny podcast. It just happens. But what, what about the opening quote? Was that strong enough?

• 0:36David Sims?

  It's a pretty good De Niro in that you're not, you're not leaning too heavy on that. Cause a lot of the De Niro stuff is right here.

• 0:42Griffin Newman?

  I was thinking watching this.

• 0:45David Sims?

  You know, the kinda, yeah.

• 0:47Griffin Newman?

  I think if anyone's trying to impersonate De Niro, this is the one to do. Cause it is weirdly, it's right at the center of everything.

• 0:52David Sims?

  Yeah. And he's not yelling. Like it's just talking and he's equivocating all the time.

• 0:56Griffin Newman?

  It's understated enough.

• 0:57David Sims?

  We're all doing his hands.

• 0:58Griffin Newman?

  He has locked in all of the movie star moves at this point. Everything you would impersonate him doing is in this film in some way, but it's quiet.

• 1:06Speaker 02

  Well, that's the thing about De Niro versus Pacino. It's like Pacino is like overnight. He became insane and like yelling and everything. You know what I mean? It really was like a, and you saw, maybe you saw traces of it. Obviously like heat is the absolute middle of that Venn diagram where he's still the man, but he's fucking going crazy. But that's so much later. Whereas you're right. This, this is like De Niro's over the top mannerisms. This is the seedling and it slowly grew into a big forest of, of really over, over squinting and like frowning. You know what I mean?

• 1:40Griffin Newman?

  They start to figure out the tricks.

• 1:42David Sims?

  And it's like, obviously if he's just in the hands of some, you know, Bulgarian guy who's making a movie called like the gun and the guy, you know, whatever the, like, you know, whatever the De Niro movies are, right?

• 1:54Griffin Newman?

  I feel like he improvised Killer Gun recently, which was a good one.

• 1:58Speaker 02

  That's a fucking awesome one.

• 1:59Griffin Newman?

  Making a movie called Killer Gun.

• 2:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. And by the way, I can't wait to buy that on DVD.

• 2:05Griffin Newman?

  You're buying that.

• 2:05Speaker 02

  I can't wait to buy that on DVD.

• 2:06Griffin Newman?

  Buy that at a good whale.

• 2:08David Sims?

  What's a disc this lower quality than DVD? Can we just have like, you know, DV or whatever? Like DD?

• 2:13Speaker 02

  It's on a mini DV tape. I have to plug it into an old, old thing to, and then put those little yellow, red and white shits that you used to connect the fucking 64 with.

• 2:22Griffin Newman?

  But it is the thing, the guys.

• 2:23David Sims?

  Yeah. You know. Shout, shout those little red, red, yellow, white shit out.

• 2:26Speaker 02

  Red, yellow, white, bro. And one of them, you didn't even, it didn't even fucking matter.

• 2:28David Sims?

  One of them didn't do anything. One of them didn't do anything.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  White or yellow didn't matter.

• 2:31David Sims?

  Yeah. It didn't matter.

• 2:32Griffin Newman?

  It was right speaker versus left speaker, but on most TVs at that time.

• 2:37David Sims?

  It was just the one built in speaker.

• 2:39Griffin Newman?

  Cruddy speaker.

• 2:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. The one. Maybe audio files knew the difference, but me, I didn't give a fuck when I was playing No Mercy. I didn't give a fuck where the speaker came from.

• 2:48David Sims?

  But my Super Nintendo didn't even have that. It just had the one plug and you would like flip a switch to switch between like a video game and TV. I can't even remember this.

• 2:59Speaker 02

  I don't remember. I, I, I could have swore it had the.

• 3:02David Sims?

  It might've had it.

• 3:03Speaker 02

  But I don't remember the Super Nintendo as much. That was more of, uh, I don't.

• 3:07David Sims?

  No, it had the red. Okay. So I don't, well, I don't know. I don't know.

• 3:10Speaker 02

  Maybe some British, some weird British shit you were playing.

• 3:11David Sims?

  Might be some weird British shit. Cause I had a British Super Nintendo.

• 3:14Speaker 02

  The Queens Atari or some shit.

• 3:16David Sims?

  The Queens Atari.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  You get to practice having tea.

• 3:20David Sims?

  The British, the British Super Nintendo looks like the Japanese.

• 3:25Speaker 02

  I got a couple. Sorry. It's like Frogger, but you're evading your headmaster pedophile.

• 3:29David Sims?

  There you go.

• 3:29Speaker 02

  You have to, you're in like little schoolboy shorts. You have to run across the street.

• 3:33Griffin Newman?

  You're running across the street from a ruler.

• 3:37David Sims?

  I mean, I had to do, I never got hit with a ruler. I had to do lines, which I do feel like that's a British thing, but Americans do that sometimes, right? Yeah. Where you write like, like Bart Simpson.

• 3:46Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 3:47David Sims?

  Yeah. You know, like I promised to never talk in class.

• 3:50Griffin Newman?

  Would you do it at the chalkboard?

• 3:52David Sims?

  No, you would do it in detention.

• 3:53Speaker 02

  Okay. Over and over again.

• 3:54David Sims?

  Over and over again. And then like, there were like the modern, like woke teachers who were like, I think lines doesn't really teach you anything. And like the older school teachers were like, okay.

• 4:04Speaker 02

  Okay. I guess, I guess we'll hit them again. Cause this was our compromise. We'll go back.

• 4:10David Sims?

  You wouldn't let me put my hands on them anymore. What do you fucking want from me?

• 4:14Griffin Newman?

  I gotta say, good conceit to make it the chalkboard. If The Simpsons opened with Bart sitting at a desk and a piece of paper.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  Not cinematic at all.

• 4:21David Sims?

  No, you need him to throw the chalk at it. Yeah.

• 4:24Griffin Newman?

  We wouldn't be 37 perfect seasons in 39?

• 4:28Speaker 02

  Whatever it is. 39 for 39.

• 4:30David Sims?

  It better not be hitting a round number soon. Cause then they're going to like act like we care.

• 4:35Griffin Newman?

  They are absolutely within.

• 4:36David Sims?

  They're gonna be like, our milestone 40th anniversary. I'm like checked out after the 10th, but okay.

• 4:41Speaker 02

  That will be really fun though.

• 4:41Griffin Newman?

  I guarantee they're.

• 4:42David Sims?

  37. They're on 37.

• 4:43Griffin Newman?

  So they're within like 30 months of 40.

• 4:46David Sims?

  Sure. Right. Right. Right.

• 4:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Rules.

• 4:49Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 4:50David Sims?

  Wait, you could get on The Simpsons.

• 4:52Speaker 02

  Maybe. I'd be down. Of course.

• 4:54Griffin Newman?

  Have, have The Simpsons visited Baltimore yet? I feel like if they go to Baltimore.

• 4:58Speaker 02

  Actually, one of the biggest, my introduction to John Waters.

• 5:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. It's a great episode.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  Was the, and by the way, that kinda, kinda started my whole, you could argue seeing Who Framed Roger Rabbit and that episode very quickly and generally quick succession merged my entire personality. Cause like the, it's, it's the line that stuck with me even as a child was like, there's only two types of guys that wear Hawaiian shirts. Gay guys and big fat party animals. And like.

• 5:26David Sims?

  Incredible line.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  Tattoo that on you. You know what I mean?

• 5:29David Sims?

  In my memory, haven't seen it in a minute. A relatively enlightened episode, right? Like Homer's fully the joke.

• 5:35Griffin Newman?

  Won a GLA award.

• 5:36David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 5:36Griffin Newman?

  It was like a big call out. Like at the time, this is the best a comedy show has ever featured a gay character. That was sort of the read at the time.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  It was like, yeah, this doofus is friends with a gay guy. And by the way, learning about camp kitsch shit.

• 5:50Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say kitsch. I don't think I would have understood what kitsch was before that episode. And then you go, oh, this makes sense. This is why Pee Wee's Playhouse exists.

• 5:59Speaker 02

  Yes, bro. Exactly.

• 6:00Griffin Newman?

  Like the line between these things.

• 6:02David Sims?

  Yeah. I just feel like back in the day, if your city was gonna make it on the map, The Simpsons should visit or it should get an absolute ad. Remember when your city would get an absolute ad?

• 6:12Speaker 02

  No, like Absolut vodka?

• 6:13David Sims?

  Yeah. Absolut vodka used to have all the magazine ads, right? I used to like rip them out and put them in like a big folder. Yeah. Print ads and like, you know, name a city. I don't know. Like they would do.

• 6:25Griffin Newman?

  Des Moines.

• 6:26David Sims?

  Like absolute San Francisco. It was like surrounded by fog.

• 6:30Griffin Newman?

  Well, the New York episode that they had to ban for a while because Homer ran up the towers.

• 6:35David Sims?

  Oh, that episode's so good though.

• 6:36Griffin Newman?

  With the crab, the crab juice.

• 6:38David Sims?

  Yeah. One of my favorite jokes. So the guy's like, he's like, you got any drinks? He's like, I got Mountain Dew and crab juice. And Homer's like, oh, give me a crab juice. So fucking funny.

• 6:48Griffin Newman?

  Crab collage? What is it? Crab kibosh? Um, our, our buddy, our buddy Mitch from Doughboys, who we were just talking about off mic, he, there's The Simpsons Go to Boston episode and they gave Mitch a line at Mo's in the beginning. And I said.

• 7:03Speaker 02

  I didn't know that.

• 7:03Griffin Newman?

  I've, I've been very gradually trying to watch all of The Simpsons.

• 7:08Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 7:08Griffin Newman?

  It started as a lockdown thing when I was trying to not eat bullets. And then I was like, I'll knock down two seasons a year. When I like have a head cold.

• 7:17Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 7:18Griffin Newman?

  I'll knock out 10 episodes, right?

• 7:20Speaker 02

  And how much fucking, how much percentage of your day do you watch shit? I mean, you motherfuckers do a movie.

• 7:25Griffin Newman?

  It's absurd.

• 7:26Speaker 02

  It's like.

• 7:27Griffin Newman?

  It's absurd.

• 7:27Speaker 02

  Are you, do you, you should have VR guy. You're the one guy who should have VR goggles. Cause the only way you can live a regular life. That's the only way you can have, you could go outside is if you're watching fucking movies while you see the sunlight.

• 7:38Griffin Newman?

  I don't understand how David watches stuff. Cause I'm like, well, I know how I do it. I don't have shit in my life. I don't have obligations. It's this. I, I watch stuff and I come here.

• 7:47David Sims?

  I kinda just put a thing on.

• 7:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 7:50David Sims?

  Like no matter what, like.

• 7:51Griffin Newman?

  For me, it's an intentional, this is an activity now.

• 7:54David Sims?

  No, I just like. I have a mountain of discs that I'm not watch.

• 7:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 7:59David Sims?

  I don't know why. It's like someone, they keep arriving at my house or my money keeps going away. I'm not sure what's going on with that.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  Who knows?

• 8:06David Sims?

  My children keep being like, we're hungry. And I'm like, shush.

• 8:09Griffin Newman?

  Your wallet gets skinnier.

• 8:10David Sims?

  My vinegar syndromes are here. Uh, and so I'm always just like, I'll just watch the next disc. And it's like, but the next disc is like an Iranian movie from like 2001 about a guy who goes to prison. I'm like, well, I gotta watch it. That's the next fucking disc. Yeah.

• 8:25Speaker 03

  But David, your consumption of then sports.

• 8:29David Sims?

  I do love sports.

• 8:29Speaker 03

  You play video games.

• 8:30David Sims?

  Not that much.

• 8:31Speaker 03

  Kinda stay on top of it a little bit.

• 8:33Griffin Newman?

  You love Iron Maiden.

• 8:34Speaker 03

  You read up on, like, I'm always so impressed with like how much you take in. I have no idea how you do it.

• 8:41David Sims?

  Saying that I'm like an idol. Cause I'm like, what?

• 8:44Speaker 02

  Cause you watch, cause, cause your kids are crying and you're like, I gotta, gotta check out some early Panahi.

• 8:50David Sims?

  That's what I was doing.

• 8:54Griffin Newman?

  This is your, your bit about being like a fucking multitasking Ganesh where you have like one arm for each kid.

• 9:00David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 9:01Griffin Newman?

  A video game controller.

• 9:03David Sims?

  Yeah. I, I think I've said it on like video games.

• 9:05Griffin Newman?

  Player.

• 9:06David Sims?

  I don't play a lot of video games. Like I, I, that's the one that really had to fall off.

• 9:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 9:11David Sims?

  Yeah. Once, I mean, maybe when the kids are old enough to care, like I'll do it more.

• 9:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 9:15David Sims?

  But sports, I mean, it's great to have baseball on.

• 9:18Speaker 02

  Like, yeah, sports to me is what you're describing where it's like, put on anything in the background. I don't have to, or like an old, dude, honestly, Tubi is wonderful.

• 9:27Griffin Newman?

  I love not having to choose.

• 9:29Speaker 02

  What they autoplay is shit you've never even thought about.

• 9:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 9:32Speaker 02

  And it's like, it's like, what the fuck? Where the fuck did Jack Nicholson play a werewolf?

• 9:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  All right. Fuck it. Wolf is awesome.

• 9:38Griffin Newman?

  Wolf is one of my favorite.

• 9:39Speaker 02

  It's so good. It started autoplay. I had to actually stop watching because the scares got me so much. So I was like moving my broken, my very broken arm at the time. And I was like, just like, like fucking jumping back. I hurt my arm, but I'm seeing, I'm gonna fucking get back. And I watched all that jazz on Tubi.

• 9:54Griffin Newman?

  I mean, that shit's the best, is it not?

• 9:57Speaker 02

  And then it just autoplay some fucking wild shit.

• 9:59Griffin Newman?

  You know what else? All that jazz is like not legally streamable, but Tubi will serve it to you. It's been in a weird legal loophole. It's out of print on disc and yet Tubi's like, we fucking got you.

• 10:09Speaker 02

  Tubi fucking rules, bro. I want to put a special on Tubi for real.

• 10:12Griffin Newman?

  You should genuinely.

• 10:13Speaker 02

  Listen, not this one coming on. This one's on Netflix, but you know.

• 10:17David Sims?

  This one's on Netflix?

• 10:18Speaker 02

  The one, uh, oh, no, no. The, the, my next special.

• 10:21David Sims?

  Oh, your next special.

• 10:22Speaker 02

  But after that, I'm going to the people. All right. I'm going right to Tubi.

• 10:26David Sims?

  But you, you gotta make sure there's an ad break in the middle of a joke.

• 10:29Speaker 02

  Punchline, absolutely.

• 10:30David Sims?

  Completely disrupt the rhythm.

• 10:32Speaker 02

  It would actually be funny to put in fake ad breaks in a special that's on Tubi.

• 10:36David Sims?

  Oh, that's fucking great.

• 10:37Speaker 02

  Nobody steal that. Dibs, dibs, dibs, dibs. Legal dibs, legal dibs.

• 10:41David Sims?

  The most random fucking ad, like, like I listen to Mets radios sometimes and like, they'll just be ads for like non-lethal guns. And I'm like, who approved this? Anyone know about this? Do you want to shoot someone, but they won't die?

• 10:56Speaker 02

  I mean, that's the most Staten Island shit of all time. It's like, we're sort of fascist, but we don't want to kill the black teens.

• 11:02Griffin Newman?

  You're not gonna stop me from pulling the trigger though. You can change what's coming out of the gun. That's the only negotiable part.

• 11:08David Sims?

  Oh my god.

• 11:09Speaker 02

  Anyway, no, this was not, I had to buy the, I believe I, I don't think this is streaming, but I, I fucking bought, I myself, I'm a disc guy now.

• 11:16David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 11:17Speaker 02

  I've caught it. I've caught it. I've caught the sickness.

• 11:20Griffin Newman?

  I've been in your apartment. There's space. There's room.

• 11:23Speaker 02

  Oh, you guys came when it was real. Like you gotta come back. It was fucking beautiful now.

• 11:26Griffin Newman?

  You sent, you sent a picture. It was looking real nice.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Yeah.

• 11:28Griffin Newman?

  But I like, I like that you have this method that you were telling me started on the road of you pull into a Goodwill, a gas station. You're like, we gotta pick what we're watching tonight from what's on sale. Back to the sort of like.

• 11:42David Sims?

  Right. This is the curation.

• 11:43Griffin Newman?

  The curation is being mandated by the, what's available. You're not getting wifi on a fucking touring truck.

• 11:50Speaker 02

  No, no. And that's how you end up watching, uh, what women want.

• 11:53David Sims?

  Hell, yeah.

• 11:53Speaker 02

  When you're drunk, when you're driving for fucking like, I don't even know where the fuck we went this, but we, we crushed that one. Honestly. I saw that in theaters. It's hilarious. Pretty good.

• 12:03Griffin Newman?

  It's pretty good. We covered on this podcast. It's pretty good. I feel like it's act.

• 12:06Speaker 02

  Shockingly good. I mean, obviously.

• 12:09Griffin Newman?

  Aged well now.

• 12:10David Sims?

  Are you with me that just Helen Hunt circa 2000, just a robo babe? Just like, where you're just like.

• 12:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:16David Sims?

  Why, why wasn't this discussed daily?

• 12:18Speaker 02

  And so.

• 12:19David Sims?

  Like Anna Kournikova or whatever, take off. Like, why wasn't Helen Hunt on the front page of whatever lad mag?

• 12:25Speaker 02

  Why? That's, she's like, she, her, like, her, like, uh, sort of sexual attractiveness comes from sort of being in control.

• 12:34David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 12:34Speaker 02

  And she's older and hot, like compared to like a young, a young tennis star. It's like, that's a, that's a late, that's like, uh, they don't let, America has a real problem with not letting us want to jack off to older women.

• 12:45Griffin Newman?

  I, I think.

• 12:46Speaker 02

  We're a pedophilic fucking, like, we're here to Europe. We, you go to Europe.

• 12:50David Sims?

  Oh, yeah.

• 12:50Speaker 02

  It's that, there is a thing like, may, now look, perhaps they got their problems there too, but there is, there is a thing where it's like, young guys want to fucking, you want to fuck the hot old, the hot older lady in your village. That's who you, that she's doing fucking, she's doing laundry with the fucking things, uh, you know, hanging laundry.

• 13:08David Sims?

  Is about.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  It's incredible. She bends over in her loose, you know, house skirt as a little boy. You see a little, you know, a little more titty than she was expecting to show. And that's the kind of shit that sustains you when you're 14 in a village with no running water. And that's who we should be. That's who young boys should want to jack off to. Okay. We should not be a pedophilic nation. And Helen Hunt should have been a sex symbol at the time.

• 13:30David Sims?

  Absolutely. Yes.

• 13:31Speaker 02

  Thank you. Thank you.

• 13:31Griffin Newman?

  I think part of it is that I, you saying it was not respected or acknowledged enough at the time. I think Helen Hunt's contemporaries were like, yeah, that's Helen Hunt. She's sturdy. I think we were of the exact right generation to be like, fuck, that's a grown up. That is an adult woman. Like you saying she was older. It's like, she wasn't.

• 13:50Speaker 02

  She wasn't older, but I saw it when I was 12.

• 13:51Griffin Newman?

  It was that, right. It was that when we were like children, she was playing characters that didn't feel like they were 15.

• 13:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 13:59Griffin Newman?

  Versus a lot of like big female movie stars were still playing characters that were so underdeveloped that they felt like children.

• 14:05Speaker 02

  Or even pretending to be eight years younger than they are. You know what I mean?

• 14:08David Sims?

  What if like my wife is like, okay, what are you, come on, let's have the conversation. What's your hall pass? And I'm like, Helen Hunt now.

• 14:15Griffin Newman?

  Hunting season.

• 14:15David Sims?

  Number one. Exactly. And she's like, okay. And I'm like, I'll keep going. Caroline in the city. What's she up to?

• 14:24Speaker 02

  Caroline.

• 14:24Griffin Newman?

  Leah Thompson. Yeah. Uh, I mean, uh, more tyranny.

• 14:27Speaker 02

  That's a huge one.

• 14:28David Sims?

  Oh, tyranny.

• 14:29Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 14:29David Sims?

  Get out of here.

• 14:31Griffin Newman?

  It's mostly musty TV.

• 14:32David Sims?

  That was my whole problem with the affair.

• 14:33Speaker 02

  I think that's actually what we're all coming to.

• 14:35David Sims?

  Right. It's just 90 TV.

• 14:37Speaker 02

  We were all 13 when fucking that.

• 14:39Griffin Newman?

  On Thursday.

• 14:42David Sims?

  I mean, of course, it's very logical.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  Weirdly jacked off to Mad About You.

• 14:45Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  And now we're like, why don't people talk about Helen Hunt so much?

• 14:50David Sims?

  But like, uh, wait, yeah, no, wait. Who did I just say, Griff? I just said.

• 14:54Griffin Newman?

  You said more tyranny than the affair.

• 14:56David Sims?

  My whole problem with the affair, right? Where he's like, I want to have an affair. I mean, like more tyranny is so boring. I want to, I'm like, more tyranny. You got more tyranny at home. No need for an affair, my friend. You are set.

• 15:07Griffin Newman?

  First episode of news radio is.

• 15:09Speaker 02

  Fuck. No. He was cheating on more. I, I didn't, I didn't actually know than I, I obviously know who she is.

• 15:14David Sims?

  She cheats on him too. They all have. There's many affairs.

• 15:17Griffin Newman?

  They had to get like six seasons and then like.

• 15:18David Sims?

  The later season, they like flash forward to the future. It's a weird show.

• 15:22Griffin Newman?

  It was a show about two couples and then like three of the four people quit. And it was like, the show's still on?

• 15:27Speaker 02

  That's awesome.

• 15:28Griffin Newman?

  What's it about now?

• 15:29David Sims?

  I don't know.

• 15:30Griffin Newman?

  And you're like, he's starting new affairs. Cheating on whom? His wife and his mistress have both quit the show in protest.

• 15:40David Sims?

  I think they got, yeah, they got a little sick of it.

• 15:42Speaker 02

  I'm not familiar with the affair.

• 15:43David Sims?

  That was one of my greatest, like the Bill Simmons, when he was just like, watch the affair. If you're like 15 years married with your wife, that's just, no roller coaster can like compare to just watching that show with your wife Sunday night and just like, when do I make a joke? When do I try to play the tension? It was the funniest fucking review of a show ever.

• 16:01Griffin Newman?

  Now, did you feel that at all, rewatching it? Nope, no. Stavi rewatching this movie because I will say our producer, Ben, and Ben and I both used to do stand up, have not in some years. He came in and was like, it, it, it poked wounds. It, it, it got in my body. The, the shoulders tense to up.

• 16:19David Sims?

  I just have not interacted with guys like this in a long time.

• 16:23Speaker 02

  Totally, but they nailed it by the way. They nailed this guy so hard.

• 16:26Griffin Newman?

  And almost predicted it. I, as I said to Ben, it's crazy that this movie is before even the nineties comedy boom.

• 16:34Speaker 02

  I know.

• 16:34Griffin Newman?

  Where you're like, this guy multiplies by like 8,000.

• 16:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 16:39Griffin Newman?

  At this moment culturally, it was a little niche to care this much about being a comedian and not be funny.

• 16:45Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 16:46Griffin Newman?

  Versus the amount of people now who will like line up around the country to put their name in the Kill Tony bucket.

• 16:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a great, I mean, what is Kill Tony if not?

• 16:55Griffin Newman?

  The Rupert Pumpkin marathon.

• 16:57Speaker 02

  Every, uh, 10,000 Rupert Pumpkins. You know, it's like, that's a great point. I mean, look, this, first of all, Scorsese in general, he's my guy. Like truly, I don't give a fuck if it's the most hack shit of all time. I just, and especially watching this, because I, my approach to this was like, I, cause I've seen these, you know, I've seen his movies all over the place, right? I never looked at him in an academic way, let's say. I was, I approached this where I was like, I'm gonna end, like, what if King of Comedy is the last movie he made? Like, I'm not gonna watch After Hours.

• 17:28Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 17:28Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna, I'm gonna, and I'm gonna take these chronologically.

• 17:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 17:32Speaker 02

  And I'm just gonna get a vibe of like, you know, these in order, whatever. And watching those, it's fucking crazy how much he nailed. I mean, between Taxi Driver and King of Comedy, that's everybody on the fucking internet. He nailed both fucking guys. He nailed like incels and he, and he, and he nailed parasocial relationships. And, and, and me watching this, I had, I have an interesting relationship with the movie because the first time I saw it, I think I talked about this last time, I was, I worked at one of the last blockbusters in existence. There was a, it's a liquor store now on O'Donnell Street in Baltimore. Uh, right. But it's great, good liquor store too. But, and I, I basically got that job because that was my first, it was the truly, I was 19 and it was the summer

• 18:16Speaker 02

  where I was like, I think I want to do stand up. I think I'm interested in like fucking movies, acting a little more than I used to be. And so I would just get whatever. And I was like, I made a list of people that I had heard were good at moving, making movies, right? Scorsese, the Coens. Yeah. Spielberg, you know, everybody fucking knows Spielberg actually. But it was like, it was like, you know, basically Scorsese, honestly, if I'm being honest, it was mostly Scorsese, the Coens, and then like just random fucking movies I heard were good, right? Uh, um, like, uh, like fucking Platoon or whatever the fuck, you know what I mean? Like, maybe I looked up, I, I don't know exactly how I went through it, best pictures, but the only directors that I really keyed in on were Scorsese and the Coens.

• 18:56Griffin Newman?

  You've now done both on this podcast.

• 18:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, true.

• 18:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 18:59Speaker 02

  Which is fucking awesome.

• 19:00David Sims?

  So who should we do next?

• 19:01Speaker 02

  I don't know. I mean, you, you guys did Michael Mann already.

• 19:04David Sims?

  We did.

• 19:05Speaker 02

  To do the trifecta of the like, uh, just bro.

• 19:07David Sims?

  Loud guys our age.

• 19:10Speaker 02

  I mean, Tarantino, obviously, if you ever.

• 19:11Griffin Newman?

  We haven't done him.

• 19:12David Sims?

  We'll do him one day.

• 19:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:13David Sims?

  Yeah. He makes movie 10.

• 19:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah. Hey.

• 19:15David Sims?

  Challenge issued.

• 19:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. We'll do the series as soon as you make that 10th picture. Or decide to get over yourself.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, dude. Make, make as many, yeah. It's, anyway, that's a whole different conversation. But, so I watched this movie out of context. No idea for who Scorsese is, whatever. Um, and I'm also, I basically am Rupert Pumpkin when I watch this movie. Cause I'm 19, about to start doing open mics and I have this delusion of like, I'm the fucking man. I haven't done dick, right? I'm fucking, I'm just like, I've never accomplished anything creatively, right? I did an open mic at my dorm. So I watched this movie when I was 19 and I'm like. It was so funny coming back to it because I, dude, I didn't remember anything except him kidnapping the guy for stage time. And as Rupert Pumpkin, I'm watching that being like, oh, he did fucking

• 20:06Speaker 02

  good. He's fucking kid like, oh, his jokes aren't so bad. He's, you know, he did okay. Like, and I completely missed the like, how pathetic this guy is. Like, I, I completely forgot, like, in my memories, I didn't even remember the romantic subplot, the weird romantic subplot.

• 20:22Griffin Newman?

  No, and the kidnapping comes late and it's less than half of the movie.

• 20:25Speaker 02

  It's barely, it's the, yeah, it's like 20 minutes.

• 20:28David Sims?

  Before I saw this movie, I thought the movie was like 10 minutes and he kidnaps Jerry Lewis. That's what the movie's about. Like, that's the entire plot of the movie.

• 20:35Griffin Newman?

  I have to say it.

• 20:36David Sims?

  Go ahead.

• 20:36Griffin Newman?

  I had not watched this film again since tangoing with one Richard T Joker.

• 20:44David Sims?

  Sure, yeah, right.

• 20:45Griffin Newman?

  I forgot just-

• 20:45Speaker 02

  It's crazy how much they rip it off.

• 20:47Griffin Newman?

  It's 90%. And then it just over complicates and adds so much extra shit.

• 20:51Speaker 02

  Well, no, you're overdoing it. All it is is Taxi Driver.

• 20:54David Sims?

  Taxi Driver plus King of Comedy.

• 20:55Speaker 02

  And that was the thing that-

• 20:56David Sims?

  Yeah, that's what he did. That was his pitch.

• 20:58Speaker 02

  And by the way, awesome. Like, here's the thing. I don't, I, I, I was in the complete middle because I feel like, you know, a lot of people hated the movie and a lot of people, I had friends who like, both hated it. I believe you guys hated it.

• 21:09Griffin Newman?

  Did not like it.

• 21:10Speaker 02

  Didn't like it.

• 21:11Griffin Newman?

  I didn't like it.

• 21:11Speaker 02

  It's fine.

• 21:12David Sims?

  It's, it's kind of stuck with me in a weird way, but it, no.

• 21:15Speaker 02

  But here's the thing-

• 21:15Griffin Newman?

  I'm more into following it, though.

• 21:16Speaker 02

  But, but the people who act like it was a fucking masterpiece were out of their fucking minds. And the people who, you guys are like, it sucked. Like, you're fucking stupid too. Because the movie was, here's what this shit is. And this thing, that's all Marvel and DC. This is what they should be. I had to watch Marvel dogshit of where it's like, what they're stealing is like Josh Whedon's bullshit.

• 21:38Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 21:39Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? Finally, a dumb bullshit comic book movie, which the shit I like. I love Scorsese.

• 21:45Griffin Newman?

  Shouldn't you try to rip off the good shit?

• 21:46Speaker 02

  Rip off the good shit. And Todd Phillips is the fuck, I think he's the, a great director.

• 21:50Griffin Newman?

  I like Todd Phillips a lot. I'm a big Todd Phillips defender and I struggle with the Joker movies. But otherwise, I basically like all of his stuff.

• 21:57Speaker 02

  But the problem that everybody has with this and every fucking comic book movie is like, look, they're not fucking movies. All right? Let's just, I mean-

• 22:04David Sims?

  Martin Scorsese himself.

• 22:05Speaker 02

  Scorsese is so right about it.

• 22:06Griffin Newman?

  Scorsese nailed it.

• 22:06Speaker 02

  And by the way, I like them, right? But don't fucking tell me The Winter Soldier is a fucking-

• 22:12Griffin Newman?

  1970's political-

• 22:13Speaker 02

  What do you mean? That's like Three Days of the Condor, part two.

• 22:16Griffin Newman?

  Get the fuck out of here.

• 22:16Speaker 02

  That shit is, yeah, it is for fucking babies. If you want, if you needed to teach a baby what fucking Three Days of the Condor is, show them fucking Winter Soldier. The same way, if you want to show a baby or an incredibly stoned 30-year-old-

• 22:29Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 22:29Speaker 02

  Taxi driver plus king of comedy with some dumb Batman bullshit mixed in because that's the only way you can make a fucking movie. Great. Like, but, but that's all it is. I'll never watch it again. I saw it in theaters, loved it. Will never see it again. Not love, you know?

• 22:42Griffin Newman?

  I think that movie looks incredible.

• 22:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:44David Sims?

  Yeah, that's what I like.

• 22:45Griffin Newman?

  There's like, the craft in that movie, I think is pretty-

• 22:47David Sims?

  The movie looks good. You're halfway there.

• 22:49Griffin Newman?

  Truly.

• 22:49David Sims?

  It's kind of the Iniesta thing too, where people like, I hate him. And I'm like, his movies don't really work for me. At least they look good. You know, like, it's just something.

• 22:57Griffin Newman?

  I just think letting that, I mean, it, it's less about backhanding Joker, more about what's so impressive about Taxi Driver and King of Comedy is by letting the character graduate to being a literal supervillain and also telegraphing that by, that's the poster, that's the makeup, that's all of that, takes you off the hook of why these movies were so hot-button when they came out, where people saw a little too much of themselves-

• 23:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 23:22Griffin Newman?

  And pushback.

• 23:23Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 23:23Griffin Newman?

  Because they're not giving you the remove of, well, this is the guy who fights Batman.

• 23:27Speaker 02

  Right. That's a good point. I mean, yes, it neuters it the same way every fucking Marvel movie. It's like, at the end of the day, no matter what they're building up, oh, it's two fucking guys shooting lasers at each other. Who gives a fuck?

• 23:38Griffin Newman?

  Shooting lasers at a hole in the sky.

• 23:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, but that's the thing with those movies. It's like, and you're absolutely right.

• 23:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 23:44Speaker 02

  I guess this probably didn't do well because after this, he had to go make-

• 23:47David Sims?

  This movie was a bomb.

• 23:48Griffin Newman?

  This movie was a bomb and was reviled.

• 23:51Speaker 02

  Awesome.

• 23:51Griffin Newman?

  People were angry about it.

• 23:54Speaker 02

  He's so good.

• 23:55David Sims?

  I would say, I mean, it, there was some good reviews. It got some critics awards. It's not like it was completely critically reviled, but it didn't, it did not-

• 24:02Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 24:03David Sims?

  Yeah, I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say it was-

• 24:05Griffin Newman?

  He's got the famous story that he tells in the Mr. Scorsese documentary of, I think it was Isabella Rossellini called him and said she wanted a divorce. Last Temptation of Christ had just fallen apart for the third time. It was New Year's Eve.

• 24:18Speaker 02

  Oh, man.

• 24:19Griffin Newman?

  He's alone in an apartment. He turns on the TV and whatever local chuckle fox go like, and the biggest bomb of the year, the king of comedy, that's our turkey for-

• 24:29David Sims?

  So that was Entertainment Tonight that called it the turkey or floppy of the year or whatever. But like, I think the, the high level reviews were good. The, it was one of those movies that tested so bad that like, the studio was almost kind of amused.

• 24:42Speaker 02

  Right.

• 24:43David Sims?

  Where they were like, oh, this isn't, there's nothing to be done. Like, we showed this to Kansas City and got a zero. Like, it's over. We'll release it, it will make no money.

• 24:52Griffin Newman?

  Scorsese was not on a box office run, but De Niro had become such a major star-

• 24:56David Sims?

  Yeah, De Niro was a real star, right.

• 24:58Griffin Newman?

  Well, there's, there's a baseline, like, the floor for how poorly a De Niro movie can do is pretty high now.

• 25:05Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 25:05Griffin Newman?

  And then this movie made hundreds of thousands of dollars.

• 25:08David Sims?

  It made, now, now, now, it made 2.5 million dollars. So, you know, but yeah, no, I mean, it's interesting, De Niro, we'll talk about that. But like, right, it's like-

• 25:16Speaker 02

  He wanted to do this one too, which is interesting.

• 25:18David Sims?

  This is a him movie.

• 25:19Griffin Newman?

  Marty didn't want to do it. This was De Niro being like, please, please, please, I love this script. I want to play this guy.

• 25:24David Sims?

  You know, it's like-

• 25:26Speaker 02

  He was awesome. He's incredible.

• 25:26David Sims?

  At this point, Griff, I will say about De Niro, he's basically still the Mean Streets, Godfather, Raging Bull guy. Now, that's a good guy to be.

• 25:35Griffin Newman?

  He has two Oscars.

• 25:36David Sims?

  He's got two Oscars. He also has The Deer Hunter, which was a gigantic hit.

• 25:40Griffin Newman?

  Yup.

• 25:40David Sims?

  He has already made like 1900, Last Tycoon and New York, New York, which are all like big swings that don't work.

• 25:47Speaker 02

  I like New York, New York.

• 25:49David Sims?

  No, they're all good. I'm just saying, like, at the time, those were all movies that didn't connect.

• 25:52Griffin Newman?

  No, you're right. There are a couple flops.

• 25:53David Sims?

  So he's not quite, because it's like, after this, he's in his-

• 25:57Griffin Newman?

  Midnight Run.

• 25:57David Sims?

  No, that's not for, that's not for five years. So it's like, he's got a weird, it's like Once Upon a Time in America, which was like a mess on release.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  Banger though. I love that fucking-

• 26:08David Sims?

  And, you know, later, later iconic.

• 26:11Speaker 02

  The four, it's like a fucking four-hour movie. It's so good.

• 26:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, if you watch the shortcut.

• 26:16David Sims?

  If you watch what Leonie calls The Compromise.

• 26:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's literally what my mom, my mom showed me Godfather's one and two and Once Upon a Time in America.

• 26:24David Sims?

  God bless your mom.

• 26:24Speaker 02

  I know, and completely out of nowhere, just the sweetest, like, little Eastern European woman that'll bake anybody cookies, loved mob movies. She's the reason I got into this shit.

• 26:33David Sims?

  They're romantic, you know? They got a romance. But then it's like Falling in Love Brazil, The Mission, which was a sort of, you know, award success, but not a big hit. It's 87, 88, where then he suddenly is like, I think, just finally like, I think I should make fun movies. So he does like Untouchables, Angel Heart, Midnight Run, We Are No Angels. Like, he starts just like, clearly picking stuff that is like, a little more down the middle.

• 26:59Griffin Newman?

  He's not box office.

• 27:00Speaker 02

  Who's this guy? He's playing motherfucking Lou Seifer in Angel Heart.

• 27:04David Sims?

  Who's this guy?

• 27:05Griffin Newman?

  Well, the movie's called Angel Heart. Clearly, he must have the heart of an angel.

• 27:08David Sims?

  Right.

• 27:09Griffin Newman?

  He's someone sent down from-

• 27:10David Sims?

  That's a movie I have not seen since I was a teenager. I don't remember at all.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  Bro, that's a nice throw it on in the background.

• 27:16David Sims?

  I might throw that one on.

• 27:17Speaker 02

  You can miss half of it. Now-

• 27:18Griffin Newman?

  Lisa Bonet piece of my day.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  Lisa Bonet's fucking throwing 120 miles an hour, out of control, how hot she is and that. And honestly, everybody's kind of a piece of ass. De Niro's got evil, scary daddy devil shit. And then Mickey Rourke's in is like, you know?

• 27:32David Sims?

  No, he's still hot.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  He's still hot.

• 27:34David Sims?

  Yeah, he hasn't done it all yet.

• 27:35Speaker 02

  The beginning sign, the beginning of twink death is happening to him. You know what I mean? Like, he doesn't exactly blow up like most guys do. He does some other shit, but he's still, there's some fucking awesome sex scenes in that movie.

• 27:46Griffin Newman?

  Now, wait a second. I'm a little confused. David, you said, he hasn't done it all yet and you gestured to your face. By done it all, you mean several boxing matches and that's the full extent of what he did, right?

• 27:57David Sims?

  Is that what Rourke says? Like, much like where Michael Jackson was like, I got one little nose job and a little thing in my chin. That's it. It's regular.

• 28:07Griffin Newman?

  Rourke's line is like, I, I, I hate knives. I'd never let a knife touch me.

• 28:12Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 28:12Griffin Newman?

  The boxing matches fucked me up so much. I had to have a few medical reconstructive surgeries.

• 28:18Speaker 02

  Damn, dude.

• 28:18Griffin Newman?

  I've never elected to anything.

• 28:20Speaker 02

  That sucks because if, I mean, all these guys, first of all, what's the point of living in a misogynist society if you can't ju, like, like, it just, like, look, it's not good, by the way, but we're not going to change it in our, let's work to change in our lifetimes. And in the meantime, just don't, just fucking age like shit. Who cares?

• 28:39David Sims?

  The thing about Rourke that, right, where you're like, okay, buddy.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  He would have been a handsome, older guy.

• 28:42David Sims?

  Of course. And it's just, you look at, you know, young Rourke, he's so incredibly strikingly handsome that you are like, wow.

• 28:49Griffin Newman?

  Motherfucker looks like Shrek.

• 28:51Speaker 02

  It's fucked up, dude.

• 28:51David Sims?

  Now, currently-

• 28:52Speaker 02

  The Taco Bell picture where he's picking up Taco Bell is sad, dude. And I, he's the man, obviously I think he's a great actor, but anyway, that De Niro run, that's fun as fuck. The Untouchables.

• 29:02David Sims?

  Yeah, he just starts.

• 29:03Speaker 02

  Midnight Run.

• 29:04David Sims?

  More fun. Yeah, Midnight Run.

• 29:06Speaker 02

  And then we have fucking Goodfellas.

• 29:08David Sims?

  Goodfellas, awakenings, but even that's kind of like a crowd pleaser.

• 29:12Griffin Newman?

  That's a crowd pleaser. It's another non from, can I amend my statement?

• 29:15David Sims?

  Backdraft, Cape Beer. Yeah, I meant your statement.

• 29:17Griffin Newman?

  A lot of, right, a lot of that backdrafty Untouchables, like I'll be elder statesman in the ensemble.

• 29:22David Sims?

  Right, like put me in, exactly. Give me the and.

• 29:26Griffin Newman?

  Right, right. I'm gonna amend my statement, which is.

• 29:29David Sims?

  And crush it by the way. At this point, and crush it and be good, right?

• 29:32Griffin Newman?

  He is still married to Diane Abbott when he makes this movie.

• 29:35David Sims?

  Uh, let's, let's, let's take.

• 29:36Griffin Newman?

  That is his wife.

• 29:38David Sims?

  Take her quiddle.

• 29:38Griffin Newman?

  Who plays the, the woman he fantasizes about dating.

• 29:41Speaker 02

  Whoa, really?

• 29:42Griffin Newman?

  Yes. I think they're still married at this time.

• 29:44David Sims?

  Yeah, they get divorced in 88. You know what? He's only been divorced, uh, once and his second wife, he actually never actually divorced. And I think he now has a third.

• 29:53Griffin Newman?

  Grace Hightower?

• 29:54David Sims?

  Grace Hightower is the second wife, but they're not actually divorced.

• 29:56Griffin Newman?

  He has a new, he has a lover.

• 29:59David Sims?

  Yes.

• 29:59Griffin Newman?

  A mother of a child, I believe.

• 30:01David Sims?

  I think, I think.

• 30:03Griffin Newman?

  I, I think the difference is, uh, that at this point in time, if you won two Oscars, your box office almost doesn't matter. I think the industry still valued that so much that if, if you had done that, he won two Oscars in like five years and everyone was like, you're Brando. You get to be a movie star forever. We'd love it if you can make hits, but.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  People made so many more movies back then too. Like now it's like, you kind of, every movie either makes or breaks people. People look at movie stars like stocks at this point.

• 30:36Griffin Newman?

  A great take.

• 30:37Speaker 02

  And back then it was like, you can make fucking four pieces of shit for fun. Cause instead of doing a play, basically, it was artistic. You know what I mean?

• 30:45Griffin Newman?

  It was a little closer to doing standup where you're like, you're not gonna kill every night.

• 30:48Speaker 02

  No, you gotta try some shit out. And this is a, and what I love about this performance, I see why De Niro wants to do it. It's basically like he's doing the Roy G Biv of anger, right?

• 30:56Griffin Newman?

  Great take.

• 30:57Speaker 02

  Where this is the most pathetic, it doesn't ever really explode. Is this guy actually shittier than Travis Bickle?

• 31:04David Sims?

  A little bit. Or fucking Jake Clamato or whatever.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  Quickly that motherfucker turns to like, you know, and obviously he's 36, whatever. He's older in life. Like it's, but it's more low simmering. De Niro's done so much explosion that everything is under the, and by the way, he's pathetic, this guy's pathetic. When he's grovelling, it's so good. When he tries to assert himself, when he's like, did Jerry, is that coming from Jerry? Like a fucking, he's being such a dickhead there. It's like, I see why I want to do this because it's sort of let him do the final version of angry guy, but this is the most pathetic, you know, dickless version of that.

• 31:37Griffin Newman?

  It also feels like to the point of us saying, he's doing all the De Niro moves here. This isn't a transformative performance. He's growing out the hair to a stupid haircut and he's got the mustache, but it's not like he's doing something to really change his voice, his physicality, all of that.

• 31:54David Sims?

  He put on a little.

• 31:55Griffin Newman?

  A little, but you know what I'm saying?

• 31:56David Sims?

  But not like totally.

• 31:57Griffin Newman?

  For a guy who had done a lot of big, big swing, I'm learning a totally different language kind of shit. You watch this and you're like, he got this guy in some primal way. I'm not saying.

• 32:08Speaker 02

  Fully, bro.

• 32:09Griffin Newman?

  There's necessarily even, and I couldn't identify what specific part of him he's relating to, but it's clear that he just read the script and was like, I know this fucking guy. I gotta play him. I know exactly who he is.

• 32:20Speaker 02

  And might, might it, is, is the answer as simple as everyone who is successful at that level starts as Rupert Pumpkin?

• 32:27Griffin Newman?

  This is sort of my take.

• 32:28Speaker 02

  Is it like, are, are Rupert Pumpkins like fucking sea, baby sea turtles? And most of them don't make it to the fucking water, but the ones who do live for 200 fucking years? You know what I mean? Where it's like, because, so going back to the original question, I, I bet you De Niro, when he was a young actor, was like, I'm gonna be the fucking man. And by the way, which, and I think about that sometimes too, where it's like, the way I think and the way someone who I think is a real dog shit open mic, like my, my psyche, I was not a 19 year old who was horrible at comedy. It was like, I'm gonna be fucking famous. I'm the best fucking comic of all time.

• 33:04Griffin Newman?

  You sit on the couch, you watch other people do comedy and you go like, I could fucking do that. That's easy.

• 33:09Speaker 02

  And you're delusional.

• 33:10David Sims?

  I do that all the time.

• 33:11Griffin Newman?

  In my head, the simulation of it, I'm killing.

• 33:14Speaker 02

  Totally. And I want to say for the record, I was wrong. I'm not, I'm like.

• 33:16David Sims?

  But you are an accomplished standup.

• 33:19Speaker 02

  But what I'm, yes.

• 33:20David Sims?

  Yeah, I know. I know at the time you were not.

• 33:22Speaker 02

  I was wrong at the time. I wasn't ready. And I need.

• 33:24Griffin Newman?

  You're disabused and then you learn you have to do the work to get good. You're not naturally just a fucking genius.

• 33:30Speaker 02

  And the world tells you that fast, right? I was 19, shit didn't really start rolling for me until I was 30, right? So it's like, that was 11 years of just pure, being broke as fuck, pure dog shit, whatever. But part of me is like, I did get like, I'm telling, when I first watched it, I felt like fucking Rupert, right? I was like, I know this guy. And now it's like, you know, I'm obviously not as fucking famous as like, uh, as, you know, a guy who hosted Tonight Show, but it's like, and by the way, if they remade this today, they would be fucking kidnapping Nick Mullin. Like watching this, it was like, these guys are like, like.

• 34:03David Sims?

  Right. This type of guy would not actually care about Jimmy Fallon.

• 34:07Speaker 02

  No, exactly. These are guys who love podcasters more than anything. So like watching it now from the flip side, but I bet you that was part of it for De Niro, which is like, I think every artist who makes it has to be fucking delusional. Cause the odds are crazy.

• 34:20David Sims?

  Hey, I kidnapped Fallon and NBC's like, who cares? Whatever. We'll just fucking run.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  We'll get one of the clones from the fucking, from the meat locker.

• 34:27David Sims?

  One of his prestige.

• 34:27Speaker 02

  Okay, you think this is the first time fucking Fallon, we've, we've lost a Fallon?

• 34:32Griffin Newman?

  If, if King of Comedy.

• 34:33David Sims?

  Motherfucker. He's always wandering into the, the pool outside Rockefeller Center. Who cares?

• 34:39Speaker 02

  We got one of the backups. It's fine.

• 34:41Griffin Newman?

  The only way to defeat Jimmy Fallon is to lay a bunch of rings out on table corners.

• 34:48Griffin Newman?

  If they remade this movie tomorrow with Jimmy Fallon, it would be a quippy.

• 34:51Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 34:51Griffin Newman?

  Because NBC just goes like, oh, it's a shame to hear and hangs up the phone.

• 34:54David Sims?

  Okay. I guess we're gonna just never do the Tonight Show again. And actually, wow, we saved a lot of money.

• 34:59Speaker 02

  Jay Leno's back.

• 35:02Speaker 02

  It's all burned.

• 35:03Griffin Newman?

  It's about time. This is a blank check with Griffin.

• 35:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank you.

• 35:08David Sims?

  I'm David.

• 35:09Griffin Newman?

  It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers.

• 35:13Speaker 02

  It's gonna be a short app. I'm proud. Last week we did two four hour apps. Not this week, baby.

• 35:18David Sims?

  No, no, definitely not.

• 35:20Griffin Newman?

  Uh, this is a podcast about directors who are given, uh, who experience a series of massive successes early on in their career, given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion products they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce. Baby, it's a mini series on the films of Martin Scorsese. It is called Podcast Fellas, of course.

• 35:38Speaker 02

  Hell yeah.

• 35:39Griffin Newman?

  Today we're talking about.

• 35:40Speaker 02

  Being a podcast fellow.

• 35:41David Sims?

  That's what you are.

• 35:43Griffin Newman?

  King of Comedy, his second bounce, correct?

• 35:47David Sims?

  Uh, yeah.

• 35:47Griffin Newman?

  New York, New York, New York is the first big bounce.

• 35:50David Sims?

  These are, these are the two big bounces. And then, I mean, he doesn't really have another big bounce. Kinda. Bringing out the dead, I guess would be the third.

• 35:57Speaker 02

  I like that one.

• 35:58David Sims?

  It's a great movie. It's a great movie.

• 36:00Speaker 02

  Fucking good movie.

• 36:01David Sims?

  But that's, that's, I feel like that's the true third time that everyone's like, is he cooked? Is this kind of it for him? Like, yeah. Cause Last Temptation obviously gets like swarmed with controversy, but that's, that's not really a bounce in the same way.

• 36:14Griffin Newman?

  No, I don't think so.

• 36:15David Sims?

  Like people respected it.

• 36:16Speaker 02

  It's an audacious fucking swing.

• 36:18David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 36:20Griffin Newman?

  Our guest, our guest today, returning to the show, the, the combination of Rupert and Jerry.

• 36:25Speaker 02

  Kind of, yeah.

• 36:26Griffin Newman?

  Kind of. In our modern media landscape, you're sort of both.

• 36:29David Sims?

  That's what's happened.

• 36:32Griffin Newman?

  Stavros Halke.

• 36:33Speaker 02

  Hello.

• 36:34David Sims?

  You kind of have Jerry Lewis classes.

• 36:36Speaker 02

  I do.

• 36:36Griffin Newman?

  You do?

• 36:37Speaker 02

  Jerry Lewis was fucking incredible in this movie too.

• 36:39David Sims?

  He's so good.

• 36:39Speaker 02

  It's so cool to see him actually, I mean, you know, that's just his life too, dude. He's actually like.

• 36:44Griffin Newman?

  Do you know this famous story that he, when he signed on to do the movie, he said, the character's gotta be named Jerry. And Marty said, why? And he said, because if we film in real New York City, people are gonna shout out shit at me. And if my character's name is Jerry, we can use all of it.

• 37:00David Sims?

  That is, that actually does rock.

• 37:01Griffin Newman?

  And Scorsese was like, what are you talking about? And then the first day they were filming, it was like, fuck you Jerry Lewis. Get cancer. Well, the get cancer moment is.

• 37:09Speaker 02

  Awesome. A real moment, right? Based on something that actually happened.

• 37:12Griffin Newman?

  Yes, correct.

• 37:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. No, that was, yeah. Also to see that kind of fame is crazy. Like fame doesn't exist like that.

• 37:19Griffin Newman?

  No, not at all. There were 15 people and if they ever were that famous.

• 37:23David Sims?

  One of the five or six.

• 37:24Griffin Newman?

  You were gonna be that famous for the rest of your life.

• 37:26David Sims?

  It was even kind of that era of when you could do one standup set and make your entire career forever. Right, yeah, yeah.

• 37:34Griffin Newman?

  Crazy. Right, right. People would go on the Tonight Show, the one thing that could launch comedians.

• 37:40Speaker 02

  They go on the road.

• 37:40Griffin Newman?

  And the next morning, you're like, your milkman knows who you are, the man, like everybody.

• 37:45David Sims?

  You could book a tour, but then you could also get a sitcom.

• 37:48Griffin Newman?

  Immediately.

• 37:48David Sims?

  Yeah. Yeah. All these doors would just open up immediately.

• 37:51Griffin Newman?

  There was one gatekeeper.

• 38:02Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 38:02David Sims?

  Yes.

• 38:03Griffin Newman?

  Mmm.

• 38:06David Sims?

  Is that the Cine's Cow?

• 38:08Griffin Newman?

  The Cine's Cow is back.

• 38:09David Sims?

  Haven't heard from her in a while.

• 38:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, she's reactivated because she's horny for chicken fingers.

• 38:15David Sims?

  Okay.

• 38:16Griffin Newman?

  And she's excited for the streaming debut of Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma.

• 38:20David Sims?

  Wow.

• 38:21Griffin Newman?

  The cow likes chicken.

• 38:23David Sims?

  Remember cow and chicken? Let's look it up while you tell the great listeners about the great stuff on MUBI.

• 38:30Griffin Newman?

  Well, MUBI is a global film company, bringing great cinema to the world and to you. Curating and elevating visionary filmmaking, all handpicked, always. That's what MUBI does. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma, one of my favorite movies of the year.

• 38:43David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 38:44Griffin Newman?

  You can feel the rush now at home. There's a hole at the bottom of the lake where the movies come from.

• 38:50David Sims?

  That is a line in the movie.

• 38:51Griffin Newman?

  In the new movie from Jane Schomburn, Past and Future Guest.

• 38:53David Sims?

  Past and Future Guest, a great filmmaker, a great podcast guest, a great friend.

• 38:58Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 38:59David Sims?

  Um, this movie rocks. It's got, of course, it stars Hannah Einbinder and Gillian Anderson.

• 39:04Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 39:05David Sims?

  Legends, and I tip my cap, but Zach Cherry.

• 39:07Griffin Newman?

  Performances, friend of the show.

• 39:08David Sims?

  Friend of the show, Zach Cherry.

• 39:10Griffin Newman?

  Zach Cherry.

• 39:11David Sims?

  Also in it.

• 39:12Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 39:13David Sims?

  Such a cool movie. Won the Queer Palmit Can. If you haven't heard about this movie, I don't know what's going on with you, but like it obviously has, it was out in theaters uh this summer and now it's on MUBI.

• 39:23Griffin Newman?

  Hannah Einbinder plays the filmmaker attempting to reboot the Camp Miasma franchise, trying to track down the original final girl from the first movie to, to make some sort of legacy sequel, who's played by Gillian Anderson, who lives at the summer camp.

• 39:37David Sims?

  Yes, and you know, and then they hang out and it's regular.

• 39:42Griffin Newman?

  What happened?

• 39:44Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's one of those Hollywood's out of ideas. No, it's very much a movie about Hollywood being out of ideas while being uh an example of there still being new stories to tell.

• 39:54David Sims?

  It's now streaming exclusively on MUBI and you can try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.com slash blank check. That's M U B I dot com slash blank check for a whole month of great cinema for free.

• 40:06Griffin Newman?

  They got so many great movies on there to watch, but worth it for 30 days for Miasma.

• 40:11David Sims?

  Damn right.

• 40:16Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 40:17David Sims?

  Yes?

• 40:17Griffin Newman?

  Did you know there's a new place where you can let your nerdy freak flag fly? Video Game Town and it's populated by some of the best freelance writers on the internet where you can read compelling editorials, reviews on the latest pop culture releases, get exclusive interviews with tastemakers and even get rankings of sexy mascots.

• 40:36David Sims?

  Wait a second.

• 40:37Griffin Newman?

  If you're into that.

• 40:38David Sims?

  Not at all. Don't let the name fool you. Video Game Town covers all things geek related, got coverage on meme culture, film reviews from friend of the show, Sedan Tedlocka.

• 40:48Griffin Newman?

  Past and Future Guest.

• 40:48David Sims?

  Eric Vanderwall and Josh Bell, articles just dissecting television, both new and old, uh stories about gamers and cinephiles and a weekly podcast with some stellar guests.

• 40:59Griffin Newman?

  Video Game Town is run by two friends, Grant and Jared. Wait a second, two friends?

• 41:02David Sims?

  Litigation incoming.

• 41:04Griffin Newman?

  Bring their decades of experience covering games, movies and tech. They deliver the kind of analysis, editorials, podcasts, videos, rankings and nerdy ephemera that you can't find elsewhere. So check them out at video game dot town. I've never seen a dot town before.

• 41:20David Sims?

  You can do it.

• 41:21Griffin Newman?

  You can do it. And be sure to subscribe for their backlog of evergreen video game town hall episodes, wherever you get your podcasts. If you want to support the return of fully independent web media, and who doesn't?

• 41:33David Sims?

  Mm hmm.

• 41:33Griffin Newman?

  You can directly support them on Patreon at patreon.com slash video game town for exclusive articles and podcasts.

• 41:49David Sims?

  I have kind of no relationship to him. I will be honest.

• 41:53Griffin Newman?

  To Johnny Carson?

• 41:54David Sims?

  No, no, Jerry Lewis. I mean, honestly, to Johnny Carson too, I guess, in that Johnny Carson was retired by the time I was a little kid.

• 42:01Griffin Newman?

  No, no relationship to Jerry Lewis?

• 42:03David Sims?

  No.

• 42:03Griffin Newman?

  Not even the year that you were bartending in France?

• 42:07David Sims?

  Weirdly, I moved to France and got so into Jerry Lewis.

• 42:10Griffin Newman?

  One year dalliance?

• 42:11David Sims?

  And all the people just came up to the bar and were just like, you, do you know him?

• 42:15Speaker 02

  Do you know the original Lucky Professor?

• 42:17Griffin Newman?

  I love that.

• 42:18David Sims?

  I don't think I've ever seen a Jerry Lewis movie in full.

• 42:21Griffin Newman?

  Hmm.

• 42:21David Sims?

  You know, like any of his classic movies that play in France 24 hours a day. I don't think I've ever seen a special. I've never seen a standup set. I've seen clips of him over the years, like I know who he is.

• 42:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, for me.

• 42:34David Sims?

  Never seen like a Martin and Lewis movie, right? Like.

• 42:36Speaker 02

  I've never, to be honest, the truly, the only movie I ever watched fully was the original Professor, because I love, because I love the Eddie Murphy one so much.

• 42:43David Sims?

  Like, let me check this out.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  So as a kid, I was like, that was kind of the budding comedy nerd shit I would do is like, where did this fucking come from?

• 42:49Griffin Newman?

  But you're also like, why isn't he fat? Where are the clumps?

• 42:51Speaker 02

  What the hell is this? What the, why is the?

• 42:53David Sims?

  Hercules.

• 42:54Speaker 02

  Why aren't six of his family members farting around the dinner table?

• 42:58Griffin Newman?

  Right, his mom, dad, brother and grandmother should all also be played by Eddie Murphy.

• 43:04Speaker 02

  Do you understand?

• 43:04David Sims?

  The clumps is something, go ahead.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  What, being a fat Greek child? When the fat boy was called Hercules in the biggest movie, comedy movie of the year. You don't understand how much I heard Hercules, Hercules for like five years. And by the way, dude wasn't up, was like happy to lean in.

• 43:23David Sims?

  Proud.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  I was that kind of fat kid where I was like, kind of doing like, I was kind of doing like.

• 43:28David Sims?

  I'll take it on the chin.

• 43:28Speaker 02

  I was overdoing it.

• 43:29Griffin Newman?

  You were leaning into the stick.

• 43:31Speaker 02

  I was like, in ways that are like, you know, I was embarrassed, right? Like, yeah, demeaning. I was being a fat clown for the enjoyment of my third grade class.

• 43:39David Sims?

  You were everyone's friend.

• 43:40Speaker 02

  But I figured it out. I figured out the, the formula where I could respect myself and you know, still do this, but.

• 43:45David Sims?

  Again, like, and you are wildly successful.

• 43:47Speaker 02

  We're doing okay, yeah, yeah. But, but yes, and then I would, so I saw that shit. Uh, and then, yeah, a couple, the telethon where he's old, like, and then I was like, this isn't the same guy.

• 43:57David Sims?

  Well, that's also the thing.

• 43:59Griffin Newman?

  So different.

• 43:59David Sims?

  That was, when I was, right, when I was a kid, I'm like, who's Jerry Lewis? And it's like, well, he's this kind of serious fucked up looking guy who does these telethons.

• 44:07Griffin Newman?

  And is famously an asshole to everyone.

• 44:08David Sims?

  Right, and everyone, everyone, every single person in the world is like the worst motherfucker you'll ever meet in your life. You're like, okay. And you're like, but he was a really good comedian. I'm like, was it good? And then there's like a clip of him with glasses like sideways going like, ooh. And I'm like, is this good? And they're like, no, but it's respected for some reason.

• 44:27Griffin Newman?

  But also the French love it and we make fun of them for that.

• 44:31Speaker 02

  That makes so much sense that the French love him.

• 44:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 44:33Speaker 02

  But I mean, speaking of, talking about The Simpsons again, probably our actual, uh, the reason, the way we actually know Jerry Lewis is them stealing his essence for Professor, whatever.

• 44:42David Sims?

  Professor Frank.

• 44:43Speaker 02

  Who is, that was the bit.

• 44:45Griffin Newman?

  Professor Frank is one of my 10 favorite comedians.

• 44:47David Sims?

  Professor Frank is funny as hell. Maybe Jerry Lewis shouldn't have ripped him off.

• 44:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Full circle. I, my Jerry Lewis thing has always been, I, I still struggle with him as a performer outside of this movie, but like Jerry Lewis comedian has never been my cup of tea. I have tried to engage with the movies more. They are unbelievably well directed.

• 45:08David Sims?

  Right.

• 45:09Griffin Newman?

  It's the thing that everyone says.

• 45:10David Sims?

  And that's what the French people like.

• 45:11Speaker 02

  He directed his own movie?

• 45:13David Sims?

  Yes.

• 45:13Griffin Newman?

  Really?

• 45:14David Sims?

  So he was making those movies and he was, you know, he's kind of like.

• 45:16Griffin Newman?

  A lot of the Martin Lewis ones are Frank Tashlin and these other great early comedy directors.

• 45:21David Sims?

  The Bell Boy or whatever, like the ones that people say are really good. That's all him.

• 45:25Speaker 02

  Huh.

• 45:25David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 45:26Speaker 02

  So he's, his destiny probably should have been director. That kind of a Mel Brooks thing. Like he was, if Mel Brooks, because Mel Brooks got to do the opposite where it's like writer, director, and then he was like, you know what? Now I'm the star.

• 45:38David Sims?

  Yeah, right.

• 45:39Speaker 02

  Which was hilarious. It's like, come on, Mel.

• 45:41David Sims?

  The thing about Mel Brooks is everyone's like, he rocked, great person to collaborate with, really smart. Whereas Jerry Lewis, everyone was like, what a nightmare. So I think, yeah, right. Like, why was he directing? Because he had to, because no one wanted to fucking deal with him.

• 45:55Griffin Newman?

  That's a big part of it.

• 45:56David Sims?

  But he happened to be good at it.

• 45:57Griffin Newman?

  The big thing, and a lot of these guys like Scorsese revered him as a filmmaker, was a key part of him getting worked back into some of these things later in life. He invented video playback. That's his crazy thing.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  He needed to see how the bit looked.

• 46:13Griffin Newman?

  Exactly, that his, his filmmaking style was hyper visual art directed, like a little proto Wes Anderson. And he's doing intense physical comedy. He was like, I need to make sure that the physical comedy is registering on camera and I need to make sure the frame is maintained. So he was the guy who invented, can we find the smallest camera we can, which I'm sure at that time was still 800 pounds?

• 46:34Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 46:34Griffin Newman?

  Put it as close to the film camera lens as possible and have a live tapped feedback so I can watch it in real time and refine for a take.

• 46:43Speaker 02

  That's awesome.

• 46:43Griffin Newman?

  He invents that.

• 46:44Speaker 02

  That's sick.

• 46:45Griffin Newman?

  You know, he didn't engineer it himself, but he was like, we need something. And so he gets a lot of credit for shit like that. And, and if you watch his movies, you do see a lot of his influence in a bunch of different ways.

• 46:56Speaker 02

  What's fascinating about the Wes Andersony shit you were just talking about is like, this movie looks, the sets are so well designed. It looks so incredible. It's clearly, it has such a specific sense of style, um, which to me is very futuristic. Like I think it's interesting when you watch a movie where they almost are like, what's our alternate version of The Tonight Show, whatever. This is the first time it's ever been creative. And you could argue that-

• 47:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, rather than just doing a bad approximation, they're making choices.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  It's a choice. He has his own vibe. Honestly futuristic. Like it looks very futuristic in comparison to fucking Rupert, who it feels very old fashioned, which is an interesting thing about, again, going, it's hard not to watch all these movies and the, and think about Taxi Driver, think about New York, New York, think about, especially when it's all De Niro. Um, but, but it's like Travis Bickle feels like, uh-oh, is this who's coming for us? Are these guys, this is the future? And this is like, this is kind of a loser in Arrested Development, who's actually, his problem is that he's more, it's like he's drowning in nostalgia. He's not the new thing. It's like, one, again, one is like a dangerous explosive, whatever. And the other one is like, so pathetic, he'll implode. And both are a type of young man that, you know,

• 48:10Speaker 02

  it's like, oh, we gotta fucking fix these guys' lives or they're fucked.

• 48:13Griffin Newman?

  He's doing like 50s street jokes with like a 70s look in the 80s.

• 48:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it's a really fascinating choice.

• 48:19Griffin Newman?

  You know, he's like Sonny Bono doing like Henny Youngman.

• 48:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 48:23David Sims?

  Which now is why now you watch him and you're like, he rocks.

• 48:26Griffin Newman?

  It's kind of funny.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:27David Sims?

  And his style is cool and all that. But that's only from now.

• 48:31Griffin Newman?

  This guy would have crushed at Over the Eight, you know?

• 48:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, he definitely would have.

• 48:34Griffin Newman?

  He would have been a regular on the specials.

• 48:36Speaker 02

  Bro, if a guy that dressed like that came to Over the Eight, the Over the Eight mics, he would be a legend. How many guys do we know? Like, like, you know, there's so many open mic fucking legends, uh, that are this exact guy. But anyway, my point was just like, the visual sense of style to me was like, pretty, I mean, not to take anything away from Scorsese, because he's a fucking genius. Like New York, New York, that's what I loved about it too. It looked incredible. The, the thing to go sets was fascinating. And then even when they're on location, like that Harlem Jazz Club, that fucking mural, everything looks so one, and then, well, you know, at the end, all the musical numbers. But this was just a different, it's neon, it really feels like what they thought the future was going to be like. Uh, so I wonder if that's like an homage to, you know, Jerry, Jerry Lewis's film style. I don't know.

• 49:19David Sims?

  The, the DP on this movie, Fred Schuler, it's the only time he worked with Marty. Hopefully, JJ will address this in the research. If not, I know what I'm doing.

• 49:28Speaker 02

  JJ, is he, oh yeah, hold on.

• 49:30Griffin Newman?

  A researcher who's constantly in, in danger of getting fired.

• 49:33Speaker 02

  No, I know. I saw in the bathroom, my, his, his, uh, the blanket was a little over his crate. I could see his eyes. So I want, I just, I put it down, obviously.

• 49:41David Sims?

  Thank you. Right. As long as you didn't give him any.

• 49:42Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no, no. I kicked at him for, I kicked him for looking at him in the eyes, but I did, I did see what I, yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't get there because my foot got caught in the cage. But I do think that, you know, the, the tip of my toe made contact with the bridge of his nose. So I think he understood what I was saying.

• 49:58Griffin Newman?

  I gotta say, your foot getting caught in the cage, that's our fault. And I'll apologize for that because we forgot to feed him earlier this morning.

• 50:04Speaker 03

  Has anyone added water?

• 50:06Griffin Newman?

  We'll do it tomorrow.

• 50:08David Sims?

  Like, I mean, I'll Google it later, but like, you can live without that for like a while.

• 50:11Speaker 02

  You're fine. Yeah.

• 50:13Griffin Newman?

  Ben, can you just make a note tomorrow, uh, spray JJ with water and also we have some ads to do. And we'll just knock those out back to back.

• 50:21David Sims?

  Schuler, I will say, uh, did shoot Gloria, cast of Edith Gloria.

• 50:26Griffin Newman?

  Oh, oh, sure.

• 50:27David Sims?

  He has a couple, like, he, he shot Arthur. Oh, yeah. But he's a pretty new DP. So I don't know what the story will be on.

• 50:35Griffin Newman?

  You're right that it's a unique style. I, what I kept thinking watching it was, I was astounded by how much of the movie feels like a fantasy, that there is more of this film than Taxi Driver, which we've just watched really recently. These movies are fairly close together, but we're recording those episodes closer than even they were in years.

• 50:55Speaker 02

  But it's only, there's only two movies between them, right?

• 50:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 50:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, Raging Bull and New York, New York.

• 51:01Griffin Newman?

  This movie feels a little bit like him being frustrated with people misreading Taxi Driver and being like, I'm going to keep this thing in a real kind of suspended dream state. I'm going to make this guy fully pathetic. There's no accidentally cool part of him.

• 51:15Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 51:17Griffin Newman?

  Even if you think he's funny, there's nothing kind of badass or heroic about this guy.

• 51:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 51:22Griffin Newman?

  And there are more sequences that are demonstrably fantasy. No question, no gray area.

• 51:29Speaker 02

  And they cut back and forth between fantasy and reality in a very cool way.

• 51:31Griffin Newman?

  And the stuff that's real has that same sort of weird suspended tone. It does have that heightened air where you're like, this guy's whole life is unreal because he's not engaging with shit as a real person.

• 51:42David Sims?

  If this movie came out now, Twitter would be like, I didn't understand the scene where Jerry Lewis was nice to him. They would need a scene where you'd like see a thought bubble come out of his head. And like, then the scene plays out in the thought. Like, this is just what Twitter is, or whatever.

• 51:55Griffin Newman?

  Here are two big things-

• 51:56David Sims?

  I'm beating up on a straw, man. It's-

• 51:58Griffin Newman?

  No, two things that jumped out to me in this movie that I thought were so good that wouldn't be the case today. One is that his trauma dump is literally the end of the movie, that we don't do the tragic backstory.

• 52:08David Sims?

  Right. And it's part of his routine.

• 52:10Griffin Newman?

  That when the guy gets his fucking fulfillment of doing the act, the act is, I need to turn my pain into comedy. And then he, in, in a perfect bit of characterization, does not know how to make it funny, but thinks joking about it will be what works for him. The second thing that's so good is he's not nearly as bad as most people would make him if they were making this movie today. There's a version of this where he's Joker style and you're just like, this is the least funny guy. He's bombing so hard on stage.

• 52:40David Sims?

  He's all right. He's, you know.

• 52:42Griffin Newman?

  He's just so kind of, he doesn't have a voice. He doesn't have a point of view. He's mimicking the guys he's heard.

• 52:48David Sims?

  He's just mimicking, right.

• 52:49Griffin Newman?

  But you're like, he's got a, he's a pretty good mimic. He's got the rhythms down.

• 52:54David Sims?

  He's got a metronome.

• 52:55Griffin Newman?

  But there's just nothing interesting about him. And even the feedback they give him is genuine, which is like, you're not not, you're not a bad performer. Maybe work on the material. Maybe find jokes that are a little more unique. And instead he's like, that sounds like too much work. I'm going to tape the shit out of Jerry Lewis.

• 53:13Speaker 02

  Yes, that point, and maybe we'll get into it more later, but, uh, the fact that, you know, he's not that bad, which by the way, it's a really good amount. Like, that is what a fucking kind of good comic is like. The, the local reference, you're, you're fucking, you're, he starts talking about his town in New Jersey for his first three jokes about Clifton. And you're, you're fucking, he's like, I'm going coast to coast. And it's all, that's textbook. I remember that. It's like, you try your jokes about your home, you do your first road gig and you're talking about a hyper-specific neighborhood and it kills in Baltimore. And people in fucking, you know, Jersey are like, what the fuck are you talking about?

• 53:50Griffin Newman?

  To do like hometown jokes as if it's, I know what you're all thinking.

• 53:54Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 53:55Griffin Newman?

  As if you're calling out the thing that people think when they see you walk on stage.

• 53:58Speaker 03

  And what's crazy too is I grew up near Clifton in North Jersey. It's not that bad of a town. That's what's even weird about it.

• 54:07Griffin Newman?

  As bad as he is a comedian, though.

• 54:09Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 54:10Speaker 02

  But that's what's classic about it. It doesn't matter. He's just plug and play. You know, for, in, in reality, he's probably a little too good, but that doesn't matter because I think they walk, I, I, for this movie, this movie is not trying to nail the verisimilitude of stand-up. What, it's about one specific guy. And what's interesting, I think it's both a critique on the entertainment industry. That's like, oh, look, fuck, you could do schlock bullshit. And as long as you're lucky, shit can be fine, which I think was really good. But also it shows you what this character actually gives a fuck about. And the second time around, now after having fucking worked, I mean, literally, I watched this movie 17 years ago. Fuck, that's, that sucks.

• 54:51David Sims?

  That sounds right.

• 54:52Griffin Newman?

  And like Ben and I just saw you sell out Madison Square Garden.

• 54:55Speaker 02

  No, it was Radio City.

• 54:56Griffin Newman?

  I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Owned by the same people. I flipped the initials in my head.

• 55:01Speaker 02

  I would, hey, we're not there yet. But yes, I did sell out Radio City. Thank you for coming.

• 55:05David Sims?

  Radio City's better than MSG anyway.

• 55:06Speaker 02

  It's a better show.

• 55:07David Sims?

  For comedy, yeah.

• 55:08Speaker 02

  But it's, you know, you fucking sell out an arena that's fucking insane.

• 55:10David Sims?

  It's amazing. It's just like, I've seen comedy at MSG. It makes no sense.

• 55:13Speaker 02

  It's not good. It's actually not good. And it's bad for the fans. And it's-

• 55:16Griffin Newman?

  Radio City also looks so nice. It's so fancy. I said to you, I was like, the, the contrast between what you're saying on stage.

• 55:24Speaker 02

  That's my whole life, baby.

• 55:25Griffin Newman?

  And the sanctity of the venue is-

• 55:26Speaker 02

  It's my whole life, dude.

• 55:27Speaker 03

  You know what? Great suit.

• 55:29Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 55:29Griffin Newman?

  You were looking great.

• 55:31Speaker 02

  I wore a tux for the occasion.

• 55:32Griffin Newman?

  My dad took 87,000 photos.

• 55:36Speaker 02

  Shout out to, he's the man.

• 55:37Griffin Newman?

  Pistol Pete.

• 55:38Speaker 02

  Um, Pistol Pete's the man. But it's that, and also it shows you what this guy actually gives a fuck about because- Over and over again, he actually gets treated with kindness he doesn't deserve and pushed in the right creative direction. And if he was like, they're like, hey, you're actually not bad. Usually we fucking throw these tapes in the garbage, obviously. But it, and look, maybe that's a choice. Obviously Jerry's blowing him off, but they're at least being like, even if they're blowing him off, they aren't telling him the right thing.

• 56:06Griffin Newman?

  This guy could be good. You see people like that all the time who are like, open mic freaks. And then three years later, you're like, you figured your thing out. And they're seeing, this guy could be functional in five years.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  You know how many people are saying about me?

• 56:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, right.

• 56:16Speaker 02

  Probably be like, wait, that fat idiot from 20 years ago at the, at High Tops in Timonium, sold out fucking Radio City.

• 56:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 56:24Speaker 02

  But, but, and it shows you, he doesn't give a fuck about the work at all.

• 56:28Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 56:28Speaker 02

  All he cares about is what is it gonna take to, you know, and that ending monologue sort of, and the very end of the fucking movie shows that, right? Where finally, everyone's there to fucking talk to him. And he's just like, he's fucking nervous. Anyway, but that was, I just wanted to talk about the, making him kinda good.

• 56:45Griffin Newman?

  Big, big thing I clocked this time. This guy doesn't do open mics. This guy doesn't do bringer shows. All this guy does is practice his material in his living room to a pre-recorded laugh track.

• 56:56Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah, which is insane.

• 56:58Griffin Newman?

  But he refuses to do the thing with the actual risk to refine his act.

• 57:01David Sims?

  It is funny to do this podcast with comedians who are like, if he just put in the work, where it's like, most people watch this movie, like, this movie's about a psychopath.

• 57:10David Sims?

  They're like, I don't know, I know guys like this. I kinda was this guy. What were you gonna say, Ben?

• 57:15Speaker 03

  He's kinda doing a podcast.

• 57:16Griffin Newman?

  He's kinda doing a podcast.

• 57:17Speaker 02

  And you know, like, he would be a good podcaster.

• 57:19David Sims?

  He would, actually.

• 57:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:21Speaker 03

  You should get his wall in your podcast.

• 57:23Speaker 02

  Absolutely. It's great. Yeah.

• 57:25David Sims?

  Right. I mean, one reason we're having Stav on, obviously.

• 57:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:28David Sims?

  Is you did for a while have a late night set in your house.

• 57:32Speaker 02

  I did, yes.

• 57:33David Sims?

  Essentially.

• 57:33Speaker 02

  That is true. I mean, like, you know what's funny? There was a guy when the fucking crowd work craze was going insane.

• 57:38David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 57:39Speaker 02

  Who literally bought velvet curtains and pretended he was doing crowd work. And he was, it was working.

• 57:44David Sims?

  Like for TikTok or whatever.

• 57:45Speaker 02

  And then I was, and that's the moment where I was like, I have to stop doing this. I was like, this sucks so much dick. But yeah, there was a guy who literally was Rupert Pumpkin. And that's fucking, I wonder.

• 57:54Griffin Newman?

  In his defense, like Jay hasn't been on network in years. So like, what else is he gonna do but buy curtains?

• 58:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:03David Sims?

  We know, the only joke you could make about Jay Leno is that like, the mafia's gonna kill him.

• 58:08Speaker 02

  Well, that, or sure.

• 58:10Speaker 03

  Or they're rolling him down hills.

• 58:12David Sims?

  Model T like caught on fire. You're like, what, like?

• 58:16Speaker 02

  The kerosene his fucking car runs on, his antique car runs on exploded or whatever.

• 58:21David Sims?

  Opening, I'm opening the dossier, but one thing about the clumps, they were funny. Then society, I feel like, fully rejected the clumps and was like, this is distasteful. Now we're back just to like, the clumps are funny.

• 58:31Griffin Newman?

  Clumps three.

• 58:32Speaker 02

  Cause now they're gone. The children of the clumps are now, we run the world.

• 58:36David Sims?

  Right. And we're like, oh, FYI, society, clumps are good. We're pro clumps.

• 58:40Griffin Newman?

  We, look, we were talking about, you're, you're filming an Apatow movie right now. And the Apatow wave, we talked about this on a recent episode, was largely a corrective to like 90s comedies that were big premise.

• 58:52David Sims?

  Right.

• 58:53Griffin Newman?

  Heavy on fart humor. Makeup characters and shit like that.

• 58:56Speaker 02

  Set pieces.

• 58:57Griffin Newman?

  And everyone was like, this is so broad. Can we make comedies smaller and joke based and whatever? And now everyone's like, can a guy just put on a silly wig?

• 59:05Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 59:05Griffin Newman?

  And do a voice?

• 59:06Speaker 02

  Dude.

• 59:07Griffin Newman?

  And play a guy with a thing.

• 59:09David Sims?

  I just, I remember like seeing the trailer for The Clumps, Monday Professor two, with my mom in front of some other movie. And she just leaned over and she's like, I would rather die than see that movie. And I was like, I know.

• 59:20David Sims?

  And I'd already seen it. I was like, it's pretty good.

• 59:21Griffin Newman?

  Meanwhile, my father turned to me and was like, I will die if I can't go see that movie tomorrow. You're telling me he farts in space and it propels him?

• 59:29Speaker 02

  No, I'm ready. I'm ready for that shit. I need to, the things I wanna check off in my career, gotta do an action movie.

• 59:35David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 59:35Speaker 02

  I got killed in an awesome way already, which feels cool as fuck.

• 59:38David Sims?

  Wait, when did you get killed?

• 59:39Speaker 02

  Begonia.

• 59:40David Sims?

  Oh, yeah. That's right. Yeah.

• 59:42Griffin Newman?

  You got a good ass death.

• 59:43David Sims?

  I mean, everyone also spoiled this for Begonia. Like, no one really makes out of that one, but you had a good death.

• 59:48Speaker 02

  Rubber head, right? No, it was awesome. I actually, I got scanned and shit.

• 59:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 59:52Speaker 02

  Uh, I wanna do some, what you're, I don't know what it is, the big broad, like 90s version of a thing.

• 59:57David Sims?

  You need a clumps. Like, can't you just like, my big fat Greek wedding plus the clumps? Like, can't you walk in somewhere and say that?

• 1:00:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:05David Sims?

  And just get 40 million dollars?

• 1:00:07Speaker 02

  I'm ready.

• 1:00:08Griffin Newman?

  Can you be the first comedian to do a skinny suit comedy?

• 1:00:11Speaker 02

  Ooh.

• 1:00:11Griffin Newman?

  Where you wear a girdle and it's called My Skinny Little Greek Wedding? And you're doing your parody of real thin people?

• 1:00:19Speaker 02

  Shallow, some kinda shallow hell, like where the girl looks at me as hot, but then I'm fat or something.

• 1:00:25Griffin Newman?

  Still getting married, though.

• 1:00:25Speaker 02

  I still, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:26David Sims?

  It is. And I know you're bros with Mia Verdolles. I'm not talking shit about her.

• 1:00:29Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely.

• 1:00:30David Sims?

  But like, it is funny that she's like, I'm making my Greek movie. Now she got Michael Constantine. Like, he's Greek.

• 1:00:35Speaker 02

  He is.

• 1:00:36David Sims?

  Laney Kazan, she's Jewish.

• 1:00:38Speaker 02

  No, Kazan.

• 1:00:39David Sims?

  Is, I like, that's what I'm trying, I'm like, how?

• 1:00:41Speaker 02

  Kazan's, I know this, cause it's a great mark of shame that Eli Kozan's a snitch. Even though he's one of the best.

• 1:00:47Griffin Newman?

  Laney Kazan is Jewish, but is she Greek and Jewish?

• 1:00:50David Sims?

  She's got some.

• 1:00:51Speaker 02

  Well, that's a tough combo.

• 1:00:52David Sims?

  She's got some Turkish and Russian roots. So she's kinda Anatolian, you know, what?

• 1:00:58Speaker 02

  From the region.

• 1:00:59Griffin Newman?

  Fatone is Greek.

• 1:00:59David Sims?

  Andrea Martin is Armenian, I think.

• 1:01:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. Fatone's, Fatone's Italian. This is a big point.

• 1:01:05David Sims?

  Obviously.

• 1:01:08Speaker 02

  The fuck am I talking about? That was actually a big point of contention for me, cause I was coming out of my boy band era.

• 1:01:14David Sims?

  Now, Giacchridis is Greek.

• 1:01:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:01:16David Sims?

  But she's not like that funny or anything.

• 1:01:18Speaker 02

  Great.

• 1:01:19Griffin Newman?

  Made name swallows.

• 1:01:22Speaker 02

  And Kriidis means nuts. So her name is Gianna nuts.

• 1:01:25David Sims?

  There you go.

• 1:01:26Speaker 02

  Kriidia means, yeah, they're nuts.

• 1:01:28David Sims?

  And I'm just saying, like, I feel like she didn't even tap all the Greeks. Like, there's Greeks out there.

• 1:01:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Although for future ones, she went, she kinda went the complete other way. And she, she hired like actual Greek actors.

• 1:01:39David Sims?

  Oh, well, that's cool.

• 1:01:40Speaker 02

  There was like a Greek heartthrob that I knew from Greek TV, that she made her love interest in the Greek movie. And I was like, respect.

• 1:01:46David Sims?

  Did she fucking kill off Corbin or something? I never saw the street.

• 1:01:49Speaker 02

  This is my life in Ruins.

• 1:01:50David Sims?

  Yeah, right. She did that.

• 1:01:52Griffin Newman?

  But then she also made, I hate Valentine's Day, which was Corbin again, but not part of the Greek wedding.

• 1:01:58Speaker 02

  No, that was just, let's get, let's get the band back together.

• 1:02:00Griffin Newman?

  Can we just do, not, so that we don't disrespect our, our other friend of the podcast again. Fucking like, Three Amigos, you Galifianakis, Manzoukas.

• 1:02:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yo, that was really funny when we couldn't go over Manzoukas.

• 1:02:13David Sims?

  And you just call it like, Opa, or whatever.

• 1:02:16Speaker 02

  I would die to do that.

• 1:02:17Griffin Newman?

  The three of you together, immediately.

• 1:02:19David Sims?

  I love how Galifianakis is like, leave me out of this.

• 1:02:21Speaker 02

  No chance, no chance.

• 1:02:23Griffin Newman?

  Look at, imagine that poster.

• 1:02:24Speaker 02

  That's a great fucking poster.

• 1:02:26Griffin Newman?

  Who even cares what the premise is?

• 1:02:27Speaker 02

  Bro, we're taking, we're coming back. Alexander the Great, we're taking back all the land.

• 1:02:31David Sims?

  So many eyes.

• 1:02:32Speaker 02

  Constantinople is coming back. If me, Galifianakis and fucking, and, and our boy Manzoukas get on a, a three-hander, bro, the Ottoman, we're taking back the land the Ottoman Empire stole from us.

• 1:02:44Griffin Newman?

  The three of you in togas feeding each other grapes on the poster.

• 1:02:48David Sims?

  No, it's so great.

• 1:02:49Speaker 02

  We're laughing. We are laughing.

• 1:02:52David Sims?

  Someone fucking.

• 1:02:53Speaker 02

  And I'd also, the one other thing I would like to do is like, be the, in a serious, like spy thriller, be someone getting, falling for a honeypot operation.

• 1:03:03David Sims?

  Oh, yeah. That's, that's always funny.

• 1:03:04Speaker 02

  Like, if you're making a sexy thriller where it's like, yeah, we talk business lit right now, pleasure. You know what I mean? And then I get fucking, fucking, somebody chokes, some hot girl.

• 1:03:15David Sims?

  Like Tom Cruise is on the other side being like, all right, now, I'll kill him now.

• 1:03:19Speaker 02

  All right, get him.

• 1:03:20David Sims?

  Move, move his head near the window.

• 1:03:23Griffin Newman?

  He has the best answer for this.

• 1:03:25David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:26Griffin Newman?

  But our, our shared buddy Gabris, and I feel like he's even said it on this podcast, is like, my number one dream role, the thing I'd most wanna do in a movie is play the guy who was sent to go undercover and has gotten a little too deep.

• 1:03:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 1:03:39Griffin Newman?

  They sent him to the tropical island and now he's too comfortable. He's gained 400 pounds. He's drinking all the time.

• 1:03:45Speaker 02

  Gone native?

• 1:03:46Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:03:46Speaker 02

  I do, I don't wanna, I have a, I have an idea called, uh, I might have to change the character's name, but Fuckio Pussy Getty.

• 1:03:54Griffin Newman?

  I mean, this is money in the bank.

• 1:03:56Speaker 02

  The ponytail of justice. And it's spelled like spaghetti.

• 1:03:59David Sims?

  So is this your Zoran? You know, Zohan's.

• 1:04:02Speaker 02

  This exactly, it's basic. And, and he was the world's greatest, he was the CIA's greatest assassin.

• 1:04:07David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 1:04:08Speaker 02

  And after he took down a left, he, he helped a fascist dictator take over. Basically, they were gonna nationalize oil.

• 1:04:17David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:04:17Speaker 02

  And in the eighties, Reagan sends me in.

• 1:04:20David Sims?

  Propped him up.

• 1:04:20Speaker 02

  I kill the fucking leftist leader.

• 1:04:22David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:04:23Speaker 02

  But then, and I install a beautiful fascist dictator, but I fuck her so good she dies. And then the, and then the communists take over. I'm so ashamed of that. I go into the brush. They can't find me. And then.

• 1:04:34David Sims?

  This is kinda like a funny Costa Gavris movie.

• 1:04:36Speaker 02

  It's basically like Commando. It's my commando, basically.

• 1:04:40David Sims?

  Me, Z.

• 1:04:40Speaker 02

  So then they come back, yeah, and Z, exactly. It's like, and so, and I don't know what the final mission is, what they need me to do. Maybe now it's to, maybe they have to get me to like, fix the 2020, uh.

• 1:04:52Griffin Newman?

  Election?

• 1:04:52Speaker 02

  Election.

• 1:04:53David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:54Speaker 02

  I have to kill Biden or something.

• 1:04:57Griffin Newman?

  Can you get the door quickly? Cause I think every studio executive is knocking at it.

• 1:05:03Speaker 02

  And I'm, look, I'll, I'll, I'll budge on the name if I really have to.

• 1:05:07Griffin Newman?

  It doesn't have to be the title, but it can be the character name. We just might not be able to put it on a poster.

• 1:05:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. Fuck you. F U C C I O P U S S I G H E T T I. Fuck you, Pussy Getty. And there's an anachronistic flashback where it's like Godfather two.

• 1:05:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:23Speaker 02

  Even though it takes place in the eighties, like I'm a baby and, you know, in like 1909 in the, in the Italian slump. Anyway, there's, I don't wanna give, I think I've already said too much, but.

• 1:05:32David Sims?

  But no one steal any of that.

• 1:05:33Speaker 02

  Don't steal Fuckio Pussy Getty.

• 1:05:35Griffin Newman?

  Don't steal it.

• 1:05:36Speaker 02

  Okay, that's mine.

• 1:05:36Speaker 03

  Someone please make a poster. Please, for us. Everyone make posters.

• 1:05:40Griffin Newman?

  We have like a proof of concept?

• 1:05:42David Sims?

  If you know how to paint.

• 1:05:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. Please do it in oil paint.

• 1:05:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:57David Sims?

  All right. So here's the dossier, guys. I'm doing it. Paul D. Zimmerman. This movie is written by a film critic. He was the film critic for Newsweek in the late sixties and early seventies. But the whole time he wrote books, uh, he wrote a book about the Mets, as JJ wants me to point out, in 1969.

• 1:06:13Speaker 02

  And this guy's stealing your whole fucking shit, dude.

• 1:06:16David Sims?

  Called The Year the Mets The Lost Last Place about the Mets, the amazing Mets who won the World Series in 69, obviously. He also was a writer on Sesame Street for a while, in like the early years, back when it was like Marxist propaganda or whatever. Right. You watch those early Sesame Streets, they're so cool. They're so interesting. Yeah. He says he was watching like, okay, a David Susskind show about autograph hunters. Okay. And like, you know, he was struck by like this, like TV segment he saw about autograph hunters. And one of them apparently said like, well, Barbara's hard to work with. Essentially, meaning this autograph hunter is like Barbara Streisand doesn't want me to bother her. And he translates into, she's a little hard to work with.

• 1:06:56Griffin Newman?

  We're in the same industry and we're contemporaries.

• 1:06:58David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah. Like, the way he's using language to completely transform the experience he's having is very interesting to me. He also reads an article in Esquire about a guy who kept a diary of every single Carson show. He would write down things like Johnny disappointed me tonight. You know what I mean? Like, it wasn't just like, here's who the guests were. It was like his review of every fucking night on Carson. So, uh, he writes this sort of idea as a novel at first and then turns it into a treatment that ends up in De Niro's hands. And

• 1:07:32Griffin Newman?

  What does De Niro say? He looks at the script and he goes, pretty good.

• 1:07:36Speaker 02

  Pretty good.

• 1:07:36David Sims?

  Not bad.

• 1:07:37Speaker 02

  Pretty good.

• 1:07:40Griffin Newman?

  You, you. He's pointing at the script and saying, you.

• 1:07:45David Sims?

  Scorsese also says he got the screenplay. It's a little, everyone's sort of forgotten the answers here. It doesn't really matter. But Scorsese basically thought the script was funny, but also thought it was kind of like a one line gag and was kind of like, not that interested. But De Niro was obsessed with it. And was like, I found Pumpkin to be kind of like weirdly brave and have chutzpah.

• 1:08:08Speaker 02

  He does have initiative.

• 1:08:09David Sims?

  I like the kind of single mindedness. Like, he just like clearly relates to the character because he's kind of an obsessive person, Robert De Niro.

• 1:08:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:18David Sims?

  As you guys can probably tell by the way he like prepares for his role.

• 1:08:21Griffin Newman?

  His obsession has been applied to very heavy stuff, where even while this is a heavy movie in ways, he's not playing a guy burdened with heaviness.

• 1:08:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:30Griffin Newman?

  And like, it just, I, it must be fucking exhausted to be De Niro and be like, the world is your oyster. Here are a series of Herculean tasks.

• 1:08:38Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:08:39Griffin Newman?

  Each of these movies is gonna take fucking everything out of you.

• 1:08:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:43David Sims?

  Buck Henry worked on the screenplay at one point, uh, direct with Milos Forman, considered to direct it. Uh, nobody really could decide on a good screenplay. JJ wants to disabuse people. There's no, it's on the Wikipedia page that Bob Fosse considered right, uh, directing this movie. There's no source for that that he could find. That seems like either a made up story or kind of like whatever.

• 1:09:03Griffin Newman?

  It feels like the kind of thing.

• 1:09:04David Sims?

  It kind of makes sense because Star 80 is a little like this.

• 1:09:07Griffin Newman?

  Right. But why would he do both?

• 1:09:09David Sims?

  Right. I don't know. Yeah. Right. Uh, with Andy Kaufman would have been the, is the star, is the made up idea there.

• 1:09:15Griffin Newman?

  That's an, that's a fun fantasy movie to consider.

• 1:09:18Speaker 02

  That's interesting.

• 1:09:19David Sims?

  Milos eventually drops out. They have a new script at this point or whatever. They send it to Marty. Marty apparently is writing a script about a comedian with Jay Cox called Nightlife that never amounted to anything. But De Niro just won't let it go. Scorsese is obsessively, obsessively trying to get Last Temptation of Christ to happen, which is something, obviously, he keeps trying to do after New York, New York and Raging Bull and all this. And, you know, De Niro just kind of sells him on it, I think. He just kind of like wore him down.

• 1:09:48Speaker 02

  I saw the, the special features. I got the DVD and, and, uh, Scorsese was talking about how he didn't get, cause he read it before Raging Bull. And De Niro's famous and Scorsese's not, really. And then he says, once Raging Bull happens, and he's basically, Scorsese's so awesome. He's so like humble and guilty about doing anything good, that like, he really undersells it. But basically what he's saying is, after I got fucking famous as shit, I understood this movie in a much different way. Um, which is cool. It's an interesting way, you know, it's interesting to think of him as like, there's nothing here. And then he makes it and he's like, oh, fuck, I get it.

• 1:10:25David Sims?

  The Scorsese quote that relates to this is like, in the period of the last three or four years, I've cut off a lot of people around me, because usually they need something, they want something. Nice to be the center of attention, but it, you know, like, and it's what Jerry Lewis called zoo time, essentially, like, where it's just like, you're just around it. Yes, right.

• 1:10:43Griffin Newman?

  The, the Mr. Scorsese doc, he talks a lot about this one and how kind of loathe he was to make it and how he was like, hours late to set every day, couldn't make it through, that everyone was like, is he, I mean, this is kind of the start of his, like, is he uninsurable kind of era, where like, is this guy spiraling?

• 1:11:02Speaker 02

  He's so fucking cool.

• 1:11:03Griffin Newman?

  This is sort of the peak of his coke issues.

• 1:11:05Speaker 02

  Starlet. Yes. That's what he was doing.

• 1:11:07Griffin Newman?

  But it's all crumbling. Like, it's like

• 1:11:09David Sims?

  If I was dating Isabella Rossellini, I would feel insane every day.

• 1:11:12Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:11:13David Sims?

  I cannot.

• 1:11:13Griffin Newman?

  But also like his heart's on the verge of exploding. Like, everything's in chaos. And he's sort of like, he's like, I need that right now.

• 1:11:21Speaker 02

  I mean, I do have it.

• 1:11:23David Sims?

  The heart thing. But where's Rossellini?

• 1:11:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Watching all that jazz and it's about a guy who works too hard and lets his vices kill him. I'm like, why am I watching this? I'm watching with a broken arm and a fucking thrown out back, fucking a hundred pounds overweight.

• 1:11:39Griffin Newman?

  You're rewinding.

• 1:11:39Speaker 02

  On 150 milligrams.

• 1:11:41Griffin Newman?

  Crunching tape?

• 1:11:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's like, I'm like, fuck, this is too much. But yes, I still do think that's cool. I did, I have to stop that because it's gonna kill me. But hearing other guys that I respect almost kill themselves for their fucking, you know, move, that shit is cool to me.

• 1:11:55Griffin Newman?

  It's just interesting to me that this feels like a very tight focus movie in a lot of ways. And yet, he's like, I basically, it was like pulling teeth for me and not because I was pulling something so personal on myself. I just didn't want to do it. And when I watched it later, I was like, fuck, I didn't realize what I had.

• 1:12:11David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. He says he found it in the edit, but like, while making the movie, yes, certainly.

• 1:12:16Griffin Newman?

  It was torturous for him.

• 1:12:17Speaker 02

  And it feels like they did find it. Cause like, I did like this more than New York, New York. New York, New York to me had awesome stuff that had some pacing, the early, I think the second half's incredible.

• 1:12:28Griffin Newman?

  There's amazing things.

• 1:12:29Speaker 02

  There's amazing things, but this movie, you can feel the craft even five years later, how he's that much better of a fucking filmmaker. It's fucking, anyway, I fucking love Scorsese so fucking much. Keep going. Sorry.

• 1:12:39Griffin Newman?

  You've been, you, so you're watching everything up until this point. And then is your plan after this to keep watching? I know you had said on a recent Stabby's World that you want to fill in the gaps of the non-gun ones.

• 1:12:50Speaker 02

  I think, I think, I don't know if I'll do, because some of these movies mean so much to me that I can't, it's like too potent. Like, look, Casino and Goodfellas, I've watched 4,000 times and it better, fucking Spielberg better be doing those, boys. That's all I'm saying. I better see some names that knock my socks off, is all I'm saying.

• 1:13:12Griffin Newman?

  Might be Gabers.

• 1:13:14Speaker 02

  You fucking piece of shit. I didn't want to be, I don't want to ask for Casino, but it, oh, whatever. Look, I love Gabers.

• 1:13:24Griffin Newman?

  It's all in flux.

• 1:13:24Speaker 02

  Anyway, I get it. I get it. I get it. I get it. Comedy. I get it. Whatever. Uh, but I've seen those for, but it's like, a movie like After Hours, and honestly, um, I really love the ones he made when he's, when it isn't, like, obviously the personal ones are incredible and they're, they're sublime. Like, it's next level. And After Hours 2, by the way, that movie, even when I was a kid, I saw that one. And I actually was like, whoa, this movie's better than Goodfellas when I was 19, right?

• 1:13:50Griffin Newman?

  My personal favorite. It is just so my vibe.

• 1:13:53Speaker 02

  I also saw it at a time when I was 19 and I was in a shitty neighborhood. And it's like, it wasn't like the mafia, but it's a girl in Baltimore in the, you know, 2000s, like, yeah, fucking, your friends were criminals. You know what I mean? Like, it reminded me of that shit, right?

• 1:14:07Griffin Newman?

  Things feeling just a little bit scary.

• 1:14:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, a little bit. I was only on the periphery of it.

• 1:14:11Griffin Newman?

  Living boys in the hood, but

• 1:14:12Speaker 02

  No, no, no.

• 1:14:12Griffin Newman?

  But things are just a little bit, you haven't quite figured them out.

• 1:14:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I would sell weed, but I never got a gun pulled on me. You know what I mean? Like, I had, I had a weird handoff a couple of times, but it wasn't like, I was never in real danger because I was buying weed from my friend's brother, who if, if I was just some kid in a minivan, he would have robbed me. But because I played football with his brother, he gave me a nice deal. You know what I mean? Like, so, anyway, the ones he had kind of had to make to prove he could put in a movie on time, he was just a pro, I enjoyed those on another level because it's like, this guy is just so fucking good at filmmaking. Even when the story, he's like, yeah, this, I have to do this to get to make the shit I want. Even when his soul isn't in them and he's doing them as a job, you almost get to appreciate just the filmmaking.

• 1:14:57David Sims?

  Yep.

• 1:14:58Speaker 02

  Just the craft.

• 1:14:59David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:14:59Speaker 02

  And, and then

• 1:15:00David Sims?

  His paycheck gigs are better than anyone could ever do.

• 1:15:02Speaker 02

  It's fucking incredible. And so I might skip some of the ones that really mattered to me, like Color of Money, I just, it just for, you know, sentimental reasons, I love too much to just like, wear out.

• 1:15:12David Sims?

  Do it. Yeah.

• 1:15:13Griffin Newman?

  It's in the way that you do it.

• 1:15:15David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:16Griffin Newman?

  Very true.

• 1:15:18Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, like, it's just in the way that you

• 1:15:22David Sims?

  We've, we've recorded that episode. Like, we talk, you know, Color of Money, you're just like, do I need to quit my job and be a lowlife who lives at pool halls? You know what I mean? Like Casino, you're like, I think I could run a casino. These movies are literally the Guy is like getting his head bashed in. I'm like, yeah, but I think I'd be good at it.

• 1:15:40Griffin Newman?

  Color of Money, the X Factor, as we say in that episode is, what if I could be the most handsome piece of shit alive?

• 1:15:46David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 1:15:46Griffin Newman?

  What if I could suck and actually be really depressing and depressed?

• 1:15:50David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:15:50Griffin Newman?

  But have the best bone structure anyone's ever.

• 1:15:53David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just like to think about like Paul Newman's tax return in Color of Money where they're like, money made playing pool, this money made doing anything else, negative five million dollars.

• 1:16:03Griffin Newman?

  Selling brown liquor.

• 1:16:06Speaker 02

  Anyway, but yes, I'm gonna keep going, I think, and just, I'm definitely filling in any blind spots.

• 1:16:10David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:11Speaker 02

  But I might, you know, do I, I'll probably end up watching Casino and Goodfellas again, but yeah.

• 1:16:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, this is such a joy to do even already, watch these movies.

• 1:16:20David Sims?

  Um, but, okay, all right, Doc King, wait, let me go back to this. It's a Regency movie. Regency Enterprises, of course, is the production company, I want to point out, founded by Arnon Milchan, the former Israeli intelligence operative who's turned his business dealings in the aerospace, chemical and electronics industries into a movie career. I'm sure that guy was so normal.

• 1:16:43Griffin Newman?

  And has only gotten more normal.

• 1:16:46Griffin Newman?

  Someone who continues to haunt the film industry at large, you would not believe how.

• 1:16:50Speaker 02

  I bet he's posting really cool stuff right now.

• 1:16:52David Sims?

  Yeah, I bet.

• 1:16:53Speaker 02

  I bet he's got some awesome opinions.

• 1:16:54David Sims?

  And his face isn't haunting in this. But this is the first Regency movie. It gets picked up by Fox after it gets made. So De Niro, obviously, starts prepping for this. What does he do? Autograph Hunter start coming up to him and he just starts like asking them a million questions to the point that they get freaked out, right? Like, he starts to try and like, you know, behave this way. At one point, wait, the guy who's waiting, oh, right, autograph country comes up, Hunter, Hunter. I keep saying Hunter, this is terrible. Is waiting for him with his wife. De Niro is basically like, can I come to dinner at your house? And like, they end up doing that and, and like, you know, they get more freaked out than him.

• 1:17:38Speaker 02

  Of course. That awesome story about Pattinson letting a stalker in and she just left. You know that one? It's incredible. Like, yeah, yeah, there's some story. I don't know if it's real. I just saw it on Twitter, but it was like, but it seems to make sense with how Robert Pattinson is the guy. Like some girl was obsessed with Twilight, like broke into his house. He's like, all right, we can hang out. And then she's like, this guy is fucking weird and left. She was gonna suck Edward's dick or whatever the fuck. And it's actually just some fucking strange British guy.

• 1:18:04David Sims?

  Right, who's like, hello.

• 1:18:05Speaker 02

  God knows what in his house.

• 1:18:06Griffin Newman?

  Let me practice my voices.

• 1:18:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:08Griffin Newman?

  There was, um, I, I just rewatched the Larry Sanders episode. That's really good where Larry is convinced he has a stalker and Corbin Bernsen's one of the guests. And he's like, oh, oh, no, Larry, I'll tell you what to do. You just invite him in. And he's like, what do you mean? And he's like, here's one of my stalkers here. And he opens his green room door. And he's like, yeah, I cycle through them. I give each of them a day, like once every three months. They get their film, they're good.

• 1:18:30Speaker 02

  That's hilarious.

• 1:18:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:32David Sims?

  I should rewatch Larry Sanders.

• 1:18:34Griffin Newman?

  The best of Larry.

• 1:18:35David Sims?

  So, all right, Sandra Bernhard had been in Chi Chi and Hot Chong's Nice Dreams as a girl nut.

• 1:18:40Griffin Newman?

  She wrote on the Richard Pryor, like the network TV show. Yes. Like she was a big, uh.

• 1:18:47David Sims?

  She read for it. Like, it's like, it's like, you know, like, they just kind of like found her.

• 1:18:51Speaker 02

  Well, she's incredibly striking, like on screen presence.

• 1:18:54Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's one of the great, like, casting finds where you're just like, who possibly could have done this better?

• 1:19:00David Sims?

  Yeah, a hundred percent.

• 1:19:01Speaker 02

  No, she's perfect.

• 1:19:04David Sims?

  And, uh, yeah, like, you know, like she just read for it and obviously they were kind of obsessed with her. And because she was, I think she's just odd at that point. Like she was like, I didn't know how to dress or behave. I'd never been around famous people that much. Like I was just this sort of weirdo hanging out of like the Comedy Store and stuff.

• 1:19:21Griffin Newman?

  A white Jewish woman who mostly wrote for black comedians. It existed in this very kind of unusual space at a time where there are very few female comedians.

• 1:19:29Speaker 02

  How old was she? She's pretty young, too.

• 1:19:31David Sims?

  She's like 25, I think.

• 1:19:32Speaker 02

  Fucking nuts.

• 1:19:33David Sims?

  And.

• 1:19:34Griffin Newman?

  But like Paul Mooney, like, you know, she was.

• 1:19:36David Sims?

  Paul Mooney's protege.

• 1:19:37Griffin Newman?

  Right. Yeah.

• 1:19:39Speaker 02

  That's fucking insane.

• 1:19:40David Sims?

  Yeah. And she was just like, once De Niro was in that geek outfit, like, everything is just natural with us. Like the way I'm kind of just like poking at him, he doesn't have this shield on of like being a hot movie star. And we could just like be crazy at each other. It looks incredible.

• 1:19:56Griffin Newman?

  They dialed it in so right where it doesn't become too much, but it does just, you're right, completely disarm him.

• 1:20:02Speaker 02

  Fully. And even a little bit lets you understand how people are being nice to him. Like when he's in those, even when he's in that, in the like office, he is a guy who, until the third time, is in a suit, has good manners, just seems like a guy who really cares about his craft. And, but it's like, so it does make, it, it fits. Everything fits the character. Cause this, he's both a fucking lunatic that dressed like that, but also it's the kind of thing that a different lunatic disguise gets you kicked out of that office immediately. But it sort of makes sense how he's in a suit. People give him a little, you know, a little respect.

• 1:20:36Griffin Newman?

  And because he doesn't have the coiled anger thing that's usually De Niro's like stock and trade, you kind of look at him and go, at worst, is this guy a little slow?

• 1:20:45Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly.

• 1:20:46Griffin Newman?

  People are overly gentle with him because they're kind of worried.

• 1:20:50David Sims?

  Dick Cabot was who Zimmerman imagined when he wrote it. Obviously he wrote the thing initially, like, you know, 10 years earlier.

• 1:20:56Griffin Newman?

  Who's so intellectual and midwestern.

• 1:20:58David Sims?

  Of course. Of course they want Carson. Like that is their white whale. They're like, could we actually convince Carson to do this? And Carson's like, one take is enough for me. Like, I just don't want to make a movie. Like, no, thank you. I mean, the whole thing with Carson, right? Is that like, as he goes on in the years, he's like, can I do less? And less, and I just sit here and it's just easier, right? Like, you know, it's like.

• 1:21:20Griffin Newman?

  Vacation half a year.

• 1:21:21David Sims?

  Right, right. Yeah, it's the best.

• 1:21:23Speaker 02

  He's a guy who accident, I think, not accidentally, but it's like, I don't think he goes into being a, a, a talk show host in the 40s or whatever the fuck, thinking he's gonna be the, the voice of America, comedic America. He's a presenter that gets this foisted onto him and he looks at it as a job. He's like, and he's like old fashioned. He's like, I'm not telling you how much I make. It's very interesting that he's the, what everything is based off of. He's the arch, arch type, when from then on, it's people that have been doing stand up. You know, it's a completely different way to get to that job. And I wonder if it makes you honestly worse at it. I wonder if like, stand ups aren't that good at, at, you know, if somebody who just wanted to be a presenter,

• 1:22:03Speaker 02

  hosted a Tonight Show, would that be better now? I mean, those shows are probably just cooked, but anyway, I, that's just.

• 1:22:09Griffin Newman?

  I mean, Letterman always talks about that where he's like, I hated doing stand up. I didn't want to do stand up. There was no pathway to being a talk show host without proving that unless you were like an intellectual genius.

• 1:22:20Speaker 02

  Right, interesting.

• 1:22:21David Sims?

  Right, you were supposed to be a man of letters.

• 1:22:23Griffin Newman?

  Right, you're either a reporter.

• 1:22:25David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:22:25Griffin Newman?

  Who can become a little more light entertainment, or you have to be a comedian who becomes good at interviewing.

• 1:22:30David Sims?

  My favorite Krusty jokes is like when the, you watch like an old episode and it's like him interviewing the head of the AFL-CIO. And it's like black and white and he has a cigarette.

• 1:22:37Speaker 02

  The best. So fucking fun. Krusty's so good.

• 1:22:40David Sims?

  Krusty's my favorite. That's the best one.

• 1:22:42Griffin Newman?

  Honey Doo's the money man one.

• 1:22:44David Sims?

  No, that's, yeah, that's, that's correct. He says it to Mo, right? Who's my other favorite character?

• 1:22:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Mo, Mo is my favorite.

• 1:22:49David Sims?

  There is nothing funnier than Krusty being anguished to me. Like, I mean, he was like, ah! Like, it's just, that's.

• 1:22:56Griffin Newman?

  I, I use this a lot in George Lucas talk show conversations when we're doing planning, not even on stage, but when we're like planning or booking dates with Connor and Patrick, is the sort of Krusty, zero to 100, I'm ruined! The notion that you've accidentally blown your entire fortune on one comedic decision.

• 1:23:14Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 1:23:15Griffin Newman?

  I think is the funniest shit in the world.

• 1:23:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's the man. He's so good. He's a great character.

• 1:23:19David Sims?

  So Carson says no, to be clear. All right. Sinatra is their next choice. Another great choice. Like that is also crazy to think about. No.

• 1:23:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:27David Sims?

  They ask like Joey Bishop and fucking Sammy Davis Jr., Dean Martin is, well, this is how they get to Jerry, right? They're like, right, Jerry Lewis. They also considered Orson Welles, which is crazy to think about. They eventually are kind of like, he's not showbiz enough, but that is in a whole other movie.

• 1:23:45Speaker 02

  Different movie.

• 1:23:46David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:46Speaker 02

  Completely different movie.

• 1:23:47David Sims?

  And the thing about Jerry Lewis is, is like, you can't imagine anyone else. Like, sure, with Carson, like, that's an interesting movie. It's a different movie. You need someone who's as mean as Jerry Lewis fucking feels.

• 1:23:56Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. And, and that, and yes, that's the, I mean, both him and, and Bernhard, it's like, it's, this, this is another thing I love about movies where it's like, they just cast.

• 1:24:05Griffin Newman?

  They cast the.

• 1:24:05Speaker 02

  The person.

• 1:24:06David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:24:07Speaker 02

  Like, he's that fucking guy.

• 1:24:09David Sims?

  Right. De Niro is in this character. He's, you know, everyone else is just kind of like, they did five minutes of work. That's just what they're like.

• 1:24:16Griffin Newman?

  This, this one is arguably maybe.

• 1:24:19David Sims?

  Which is not, there's nothing wrong with that.

• 1:24:20Speaker 02

  An incredible performance because of that. Like, his whole, his whole life is the sum. The sum of his whole life goes into this performance in an awesome way.

• 1:24:29Griffin Newman?

  I was going to say, is this the movie that really is the big inspiration for the modern kind of Safdie Street casting? School of thought of like.

• 1:24:38David Sims?

  Yeah, sure, sure.

• 1:24:39Griffin Newman?

  You cast one major movie star.

• 1:24:41David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:24:42Griffin Newman?

  To transform themselves and play against type.

• 1:24:44David Sims?

  Everyone else is some weirdo.

• 1:24:45Griffin Newman?

  Everyone else you cast to basically play who they are, or you cast them for their innate energy.

• 1:24:50David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:24:51Speaker 02

  That's a good point, yeah.

• 1:24:52Griffin Newman?

  And then after this, it's like, you know, the supporting cast of Goodfellas starts to be people who also fit into that.

• 1:24:58Speaker 02

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 1:24:58Griffin Newman?

  But this is the one where it's like, one established movie star.

• 1:25:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, they even.

• 1:25:03Griffin Newman?

  Surrounded by the thing.

• 1:25:04Speaker 02

  And in the very beginning, it's like that, that fat guy with the weird curly hair, like, they don't even show his whole face, but it's like, that's clearly a real guy. That's clearly a real fucking, and they could have maybe done more of that. But yes, that's a good point, that this feels like the first time you get that really. Well, who knows? Maybe other people did it, but.

• 1:25:21David Sims?

  Fuck them.

• 1:25:22Griffin Newman?

  I mean, in New York, New York, he had New York play itself and New York is kind of like a character in that movie.

• 1:25:27Speaker 02

  Oh, that's an interesting concept.

• 1:25:28Griffin Newman?

  Isn't that?

• 1:25:29Speaker 02

  The city.

• 1:25:30Griffin Newman?

  I've been working on this.

• 1:25:30Speaker 02

  Hold on a second. The city's a character, but it's a location?

• 1:25:34Griffin Newman?

  No, no, no, but it's kind of both. And in fact, in this specific instance, it's a city so nice, they named it twice.

• 1:25:40Speaker 02

  Wow, so that's a whole other element.

• 1:25:42Griffin Newman?

  Not above the title, make it the title.

• 1:25:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:44Griffin Newman?

  Oh, you know what I'm saying?

• 1:25:46Speaker 02

  Oh, yes, yes, yes.

• 1:25:48Griffin Newman?

  There's something, there's something.

• 1:25:49Speaker 02

  That's an interesting concept. More people should think about that. Making the, making the location a character.

• 1:25:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:25:55David Sims?

  Um, so Jerry Lewis, uh.

• 1:26:00David Sims?

  He obviously Scorsese, he's like, he was the fucking guy, like, cause he's the epitome of like a Vegas guy, you know what I mean? Like with this tension of like, he's a philanthropist. He's does good, but then there's just something where you're like, I feel like if this guy's tired and he lets his guard down, he'll be so mean to me.

• 1:26:18Speaker 02

  There's a sinister edge for sure.

• 1:26:20David Sims?

  And Scorsese, like you were saying, Griff also is like, he is also like in this tradition of like Buster Keaton or Jacques Tati or whoever, like these sort of like auteur comedians who make movies. And Lewis said, you know, I was playing Lake Tahoe, it was a great show. Scorsese calls him and says.

• 1:26:38Speaker 02

  I'd love to get to, I'm playing the Reno, I'm playing, when does this come out?

• 1:26:42Griffin Newman?

  Who'd you call?

• 1:26:44David Sims?

  Uh, and he says, I'll go anywhere in the world for you, Marty. I mean, this is what Jerry Lewis says.

• 1:26:49Griffin Newman?

  And then he said, Glavine.

• 1:26:50David Sims?

  And.

• 1:26:52Speaker 02

  Ladies.

• 1:26:53David Sims?

  Scorsese's like, I really learned about being a pro from him, which is basically just kind of like being an asshole, right? Where it's like, Marty's just like, you know, the way he would kind of like move through crowds, the way he would kind of be like, I need to be done at a certain time. Like, you know what I mean?

• 1:27:11Speaker 02

  Have real boundaries.

• 1:27:12David Sims?

  I think about that, Mulaney tells that story, I think it's on Berbiglia's podcast. Oh no, he makes Berbiglia tell, it's like Berbiglia's mom. He saw Sinatra and was so excited and like, and then they're all like crowding around and he says, get out of here, this is the way you pigs.

• 1:27:30Griffin Newman?

  I believe it's you fat pigs.

• 1:27:33David Sims?

  And they all are still like, legend, the greatest there ever was.

• 1:27:38Speaker 02

  Shit in my mouth, Frank, I am a fat pig.

• 1:27:41Griffin Newman?

  He's yelling at his biggest fans and they only love him more.

• 1:27:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's awesome.

• 1:27:45David Sims?

  Um, you know, but basically Scorsese, I mean, he sort of talks around it, but he's basically like, the guy's a consummate professional, but this is what he's like, and he's skirting this kind of like, you know, nasty energy the whole time. And of course, yes, the woman who screams, you should get cancer, that actually happened to him.

• 1:28:04Speaker 02

  That's awesome. And, and that, the beauty of this performance is every time he looks at Rupert, every, before every line of dialogue he has, he's deciding whether he should let this fucking guy have it or not. Every single time.

• 1:28:22David Sims?

  Being polite or whatever, frosty, but like not, right, but you know that he could just be like, listen, you piece of shit. Like, you know, like he could do it.

• 1:28:32Speaker 02

  Probably could destroy him to a point where it's like, even if he was a physical threat, you could make that man melt like a puddle if you wanted to, and he's considering it every single fucking time.

• 1:28:41Griffin Newman?

  Because for him, it's like a sport. He would actually enjoy doing it. And I think that.

• 1:28:44David Sims?

  It's what he wants to do.

• 1:28:46Griffin Newman?

  I think there are two calculations in his mind. One is, sometimes you're surprised by who gets successful. Am I going to regret it if I shit on this guy now? Right? When the elevator goes the other direction. And then the second thing is, I think there's probably some part of him, like you said, that's like, I remember having to be this delusional in order to get my career started. I want to think I didn't look as lame as this guy, but I kind of get the hustle.

• 1:29:11Speaker 02

  And they have a bit of a meet cute where it's sort of, you sort of give him.

• 1:29:14David Sims?

  The first meeting is not so bad.

• 1:29:16Speaker 02

  You could even convince yourself that like, this kid fucking pushed some lunatics out of the, and look, should he have gotten in my car? No, but it's, it's already, you could tell the calculations make it's like, this is already a weird situation. Let's just get the fuck out of here.

• 1:29:29Griffin Newman?

  And it took chutzpah. You would respect that to some degree.

• 1:29:32Speaker 02

  In a suit, polite, nervous, like I could, this did break just right for him. The thing that's crazy is no way do they drop him off at his house.

• 1:29:42David Sims?

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 1:29:44Speaker 02

  Do they drop him off at his house? But, but you know, for the movie, it's a movie.

• 1:29:47David Sims?

  Yeah. And I guess it's sort of back when enough that it does feel like back in those days, you didn't live in a gated community. If you're a famous, I don't know, I don't know.

• 1:29:55Speaker 03

  Well, I was looking up when John Lennon was assassinated, it was 1980. And that does feel like maybe this moment.

• 1:30:02David Sims?

  That's one of those moments where it's like, oh yeah.

• 1:30:04Speaker 03

  There's real fear if you're a celebrity of like, that I could be attacked or hurt by someone who's obsessed with me.

• 1:30:11Griffin Newman?

  By the way, I think that's a big reason behind the negative response to this movie and the kind of hostility it was met with where, you know.

• 1:30:18Speaker 02

  That's a great point.

• 1:30:19Griffin Newman?

  That happens and people point back to Taxi Driver. And then it's like, oh, Marty's coming out with a new movie about an obsessive fan?

• 1:30:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:30:27Griffin Newman?

  The fuck is this guy doing? Is he like breeding psychopaths?

• 1:30:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting.

• 1:30:32David Sims?

  Okay. So Marty has pneumonia while he's mixing Raging Bull. He wants to do Last Temptation of Christ. De Niro is like, let's just do this. We can do it fast. We can do it in New York.

• 1:30:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:43David Sims?

  Like it won't take a long time to shoot it. Right. There was a director's strike looming. And basically like, as long as you started, it was going to be okay. But like, you know, like they had to start. And so he's like, I wasn't really feeling ready. I was like coughing and like, you know, writhing on the floor, but we did it. And the thing Scorsese says is like, it's funny. He's like, Michael Curtis, Sam Fuller, Ida Lupino, those guys could make a movie in four weeks. I just can't do that. Like, I just, it's just not possible for me.

• 1:31:16Griffin Newman?

  And he was like reshooting scenes multiple times. He was like, we have four scenes in a day. I'm going to spend three days on one scene.

• 1:31:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, damn.

• 1:31:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:23David Sims?

  Schuler, okay, okay. JJ's not fired because he does note, uh, it's the only Scorsese film that he shoots. Uh, but, and Scorsese partly blames the slowness on him. The film took 20 weeks to shoot.

• 1:31:37Speaker 02

  Damn, for that movie? That's crazy.

• 1:31:39Griffin Newman?

  Marvel movies shooting like three weeks now.

• 1:31:42Speaker 02

  That's fucking nuts, dude.

• 1:31:43David Sims?

  Uh, and he says like, maybe a faster cameraman would have got me moving more, but he's like, but fundamentally it's my responsibility.

• 1:31:49Speaker 02

  Well, there are.

• 1:31:50David Sims?

  And they're shooting in New York, which I think is annoying. Like, you know.

• 1:31:53Griffin Newman?

  But a five month shoot for this film is a lot.

• 1:31:56Speaker 02

  I mean, in terms of the really, really striking visuals, it's a lot of it is set back.

• 1:32:03David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:04Griffin Newman?

  And I, pretty isolated, not many characters, in controlled environments.

• 1:32:08Speaker 02

  And, and I will say the most kind of DP, the one, the one shot, the one setup that really feels like the DP was fucking putting his dick out was like the, when, when they're at her apartment, it's candles everywhere. That shit looks like fucking.

• 1:32:22Griffin Newman?

  Going Barry Lyndon mode.

• 1:32:23Speaker 02

  Barry Lyndon. That shit looks like Barry Lyndon.

• 1:32:24Griffin Newman?

  Ben's favorite, Ben's best friend.

• 1:32:26Speaker 02

  Everything else, oh, Barry Lyndon fucking rules, dude.

• 1:32:28Speaker 03

  It's Irish Scoundrel.

• 1:32:29Speaker 02

  I fucking love that shit. I just bought a, I just bought.

• 1:32:31David Sims?

  I believe I called him an Irish liar.

• 1:32:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:33Speaker 03

  He did.

• 1:32:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:35Speaker 03

  And I appreciated that.

• 1:32:36Speaker 02

  That's funny, but it's just interesting because I didn't feel like the cinematography was like.

• 1:32:44Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:32:44Speaker 03

  It's not like a showy movie.

• 1:32:46Griffin Newman?

  Some people are just like that though. Some people are very slow and meticulous in a way that doesn't even register in the final detail of the image. They're just kind of obsessive. And it sounds like that's, sometimes those people are helpful for a director who otherwise would be inclined to rush through things too much.

• 1:33:03Speaker 02

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 1:33:03Griffin Newman?

  It sounds like teaming someone like that up with Scorsese is a recipe for disaster.

• 1:33:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:33:07Griffin Newman?

  I think he's usually better with someone who works pretty fast. Cause what Scorsese wants to do is collect a lot of material. He wants to try a bunch of shit. He doesn't want to wait a long time for things to be set up.

• 1:33:20Speaker 02

  And yeah, interesting.

• 1:33:22David Sims?

  Uh, this is Thelma Schoonmaker's only her third film with Marty. So this is early in their kind of new collaboration.

• 1:33:29Griffin Newman?

  Is Raging Bull the first?

• 1:33:31David Sims?

  I believe so, right? Oh no, it's the second. Isn't the whole thing, it's like.

• 1:33:34Griffin Newman?

  Oh, that she comes on to try to save New York, New York?

• 1:33:36David Sims?

  No, it's like, she did, who's that knocking at my door? And then she goes, I'm gonna, and then she reunites with him with Raging Bull and that's there together forever. Um, so, uh, she, you know.

• 1:33:49Speaker 02

  That's so fucking awesome. And everyone, now we're at the point where people give editors their credit, but it's like, I fucking love Scorsese so much, but it's like, that all, that means you also love Schoonmaker so much. You know what I mean?

• 1:34:02Griffin Newman?

  50% kind of, it's so important. The language that he settles into from, from Raging Bull on is really a collaboration between the two of them.

• 1:34:11Speaker 02

  It's beautiful, dude. And it's like, that's the kind of shit, that's the thing I've liked about making movies, whatever, is like, it is collaborative again.

• 1:34:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:19Speaker 02

  Where it's like, stand up, you're all by your fucking self. It's so fucking cool. It's like, people don't think about how important like a camera, like the camera op is, bro. And it's like, I don't know. See, it's just, it just, especially the way those movies are edited.

• 1:34:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:34Speaker 02

  You really can't do it with a different editor. I mean, it would take so, such a learning curve to figure it out.

• 1:34:39Griffin Newman?

  You know what I think about all the time? And I think this job still exists. It's just very different now with technology, but the specific role of the focus puller.

• 1:34:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, dude.

• 1:34:47Griffin Newman?

  Whose job traditionally was, they go like, okay, so in this shot, we're starting on his face and we need to rack focus over there. You eyeball it, Sully style. You do the math and you go, okay, so on this line.

• 1:35:00David Sims?

  Pullers are talked about like with total reverence.

• 1:35:03Griffin Newman?

  But it's like one guy who's just got one, control of one dial and is all about timing. And like, if the actor takes a step forward from where they were in blocking, you're just sort of like adjusting real time. And then we're not going to know immediately until they print the film and see if you nailed it or not. Like in video, it's totally different, you know?

• 1:35:24Speaker 02

  Fucking insane. I didn't even think about that.

• 1:35:25Griffin Newman?

  For film, you had to eyeball it and pray that you got it right.

• 1:35:29David Sims?

  Yeah, that rocks. That rocks. That's cool. That's how it should be.

• 1:35:31Speaker 02

  That's art. That's real fucking art, bro.

• 1:35:33Griffin Newman?

  And you're just like, when that guy nails it, he's a hero.

• 1:35:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:37Griffin Newman?

  And when he botches it, everyone is like, fuck, it doesn't matter what we all did right. It's out of focus. Yeah.

• 1:35:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, right.

• 1:35:44David Sims?

  So I don't know, it just feels like this movie is a fucking pain in the ass to make. Everyone was just tired and exhausted. Scorsese says they shot a whole Jerry Langford monologue and decided not to use it because he's kind of like, I don't want you to have an opinion on his comedy. Like, you need to know that Pupkin's obsessed with him. If you think he's funny or not funny, it kind of starts to mess with the movie. Like, that's not really what the movie is about.

• 1:36:07Speaker 02

  It's symbolic, it's not about, yeah.

• 1:36:08David Sims?

  He has that one joke right to start where he's like, you know, thanks for waking up, or, you know, where he ribs the sidekick and that's kind of it. You really don't see him ever being funny again.

• 1:36:16Speaker 02

  And it's all aura, it's all, he's the fucking man.

• 1:36:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, the thing that's important, which is what you hire Jerry Lewis from, is this guy carries himself like he's a legend. That's all you need to know and the world reacts to him that way.

• 1:36:28Speaker 02

  And by the way, to give him credit, because we were saying like, oh, he's just being himself, the fantasy scenes, that's some real, he's got to do some real acting there. You know what I mean?

• 1:36:37David Sims?

  Yeah, no, he's good.

• 1:36:38Speaker 02

  And my favorite scene, with the, the dream sequence where it's, he's in the office and he's like, you know, genius, some people are lucky if genius strikes them once. It's like, it's going to strike you more than, you know what I mean? When he's just sucking them off and he's like, and they do that, the physical choke, where you're like, oh, they let Jerry do his thing for a second? And you're like, that's the funniest fucking thing in the movie, where he's like choking De Niro back, and it goes on way too long. It's edited perfect, it's edited kind of like a fucking Tim and Eric sketch, actually. Where it's like, he's choking for four straight fucking seconds? And it's, his head goes back and forth eight times.

• 1:37:14David Sims?

  Really shaking his head around like a cartoon character.

• 1:37:17Griffin Newman?

  You also get the sense it was a genuine dream came, come true for De Niro. Like, De Niro, you know, every year at Tribeca, De Niro's like, which of my movies is experiencing an anniversary that ends with a five or a zero and doesn't talk back, right?

• 1:37:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:37:30Griffin Newman?

  And he did several for this, and he'd always do it with Jerry Lewis. And De Niro is so famously taciturn at all these things. You can watch the videos of the like, king of comedy, 30 years later, look back things. De Niro's just laughing the entire time. He clearly thinks Jerry Lewis is the funniest guy in the world. This was his childhood hero. He's like, choke me, spit in my mouth.

• 1:37:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Well, dude.

• 1:37:53Griffin Newman?

  Tell me I'm pretty.

• 1:37:54Speaker 02

  The, the clip of him and Don Rickles, where it's like, he's just shitting on him for not knowing his lines.

• 1:37:59Griffin Newman?

  Oh, the greatest.

• 1:38:00Speaker 02

  It's incredible. Honestly, no, no joke, I saw that, I was like, oh, I think I can have a career movie.

• 1:38:06Griffin Newman?

  De Niro doesn't know his lines.

• 1:38:08Speaker 02

  It's like, it's like, it's like, first of all, De Niro doesn't know his fucking lines, then they just brought in a guy who can just shit on, if you're good at roasting, even the most famous movie stars in the world will respect that. And it's like, and honestly, they've kind of brought me in, I mean, Tony, they brought me in straight up to make fun of the antagonists.

• 1:38:24Griffin Newman?

  David has seen it now, I'm so jealous.

• 1:38:26David Sims?

  Really fucking great.

• 1:38:27Speaker 02

  Anyway, yeah.

• 1:38:27Griffin Newman?

  You, you texted like, Sims, I got one question for you, and it was an invisitous text of, I assume, did my roast make it into the movie?

• 1:38:34Speaker 02

  There's one bit, there's one really stupid bit I really wanted, and you know, we'll, you'll have to see the movie out this summer at some point.

• 1:38:42Griffin Newman?

  I think it will have just come out, sorry.

• 1:38:43David Sims?

  Is that right?

• 1:38:44Griffin Newman?

  I believe so.

• 1:38:44David Sims?

  This movie, this episode's coming out September 20th, the movie's out, baby.

• 1:38:48Speaker 02

  Movie's been out.

• 1:38:49David Sims?

  Monster Dick made it in.

• 1:38:50Speaker 02

  Shit, there might be, hey, I might have a Netflix special coming out soon.

• 1:38:53Griffin Newman?

  Hey, wait a second.

• 1:38:55Speaker 02

  I don't know yet, I'll, actually, I'll tell you guys, I'll give a, hey, my Netflix special is coming out now, and then we'll put it right there.

• 1:39:02David Sims?

  Ben's voice just comes in, September 11th, weird.

• 1:39:07Speaker 02

  Yep, I requested it.

• 1:39:08Griffin Newman?

  You're not gonna forget it, you'll never forget it.

• 1:39:10David Sims?

  Netflix is like, it's a Tuesday, and you're like, I don't care.

• 1:39:14David Sims?

  Yeah, uh, king of comedy, let's talk about it. So, yeah, I don't know.

• 1:39:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's, let's find, let's turn the mics on, Ben, let's go.

• 1:39:21Griffin Newman?

  Okay, cool. We're done warming up.

• 1:39:23David Sims?

  Do you have a quote, you ready?

• 1:39:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. We have a studio that's just a cutout of Ben and we practice podcasting to him.

• 1:39:32Griffin Newman?

  Black and white Ben Hossley.

• 1:39:33David Sims?

  You know that meme.

• 1:39:35Griffin Newman?

  Which meme?

• 1:39:36David Sims?

  It's like, uh, it's like listening to, this is what listening to podcasts is like.

• 1:39:41Speaker 02

  Oh, yes, of course.

• 1:39:42Griffin Newman?

  The guy laughing along.

• 1:39:44David Sims?

  This, like a guy with a poster, right? This is what it's like to listen to a podcast, like, you know.

• 1:39:50Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 1:39:50David Sims?

  We're as famous as Jerry Lewis, that's what's important.

• 1:39:52Griffin Newman?

  If you're, if you're listening to this right now and you feel attacked, of course not you, you're actually our friend.

• 1:39:57Speaker 02

  We love you.

• 1:39:58Griffin Newman?

  You're the one we're talking to.

• 1:39:59Speaker 02

  Well, hold on, are you a Patreon subscriber?

• 1:40:03David Sims?

  Are you the $10 tier? Cause then I really love you.

• 1:40:06Griffin Newman?

  You're not gonna be one of these freeloaders getting by off the ads, are you?

• 1:40:22David Sims?

  So, the film starts with, starts with Jerry, right? Does it start immediately, the first thing is Jerry?

• 1:40:30Speaker 02

  The credits are the credits of the late night show, basically.

• 1:40:31David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, we're, we're with Rupert getting into the car with him.

• 1:40:36Griffin Newman?

  And Sandra Bernhard going crazy trying to get the autograph.

• 1:40:39David Sims?

  Yeah, God bless her.

• 1:40:41Griffin Newman?

  She's so good.

• 1:40:41David Sims?

  She rocks. What, what was she, oh, she was just in Severance.

• 1:40:44Speaker 02

  She's still just also in Marty's Supreme.

• 1:40:47David Sims?

  Yeah, well, she was amazing in Marty's Supreme, that was, that was great.

• 1:40:50Griffin Newman?

  She's just like such a versatile actor. I saw Marty Supreme with my dad, and her name comes up in the credits, and he goes, where was Sandra Bernhard in that? And I was like, she played kind of like the Sandra Bernhard character. What the fuck do you mean?

• 1:41:03Griffin Newman?

  Who do you think she played?

• 1:41:06David Sims?

  But there's, I mean, the Fran Drescher, like, there's so many people in Marty Supreme, it is a little overwhelming.

• 1:41:12Griffin Newman?

  I know, guess what? She was the woman standing next to Fran Drescher also complaining.

• 1:41:16Speaker 02

  She was meaner Fran Drescher.

• 1:41:18Griffin Newman?

  With the red hair.

• 1:41:22David Sims?

  Right, where she's like, can I get a sitcom with like?

• 1:41:25Speaker 02

  What if, what if Fran Drescher made you horny in a scary way?

• 1:41:29Griffin Newman?

  Instead of in a regular way.

• 1:41:31Speaker 02

  That's basically Sandra Bernhard.

• 1:41:34David Sims?

  Now, I'm sort of freaked out by Rupert immediately, right? Like, it's like, I don't think the movie's hiding the ball at all.

• 1:41:40Griffin Newman?

  There's something uncanny about him. That's what's different, is we talked about with Taxi Driver, that part of what's interesting in that movie is, you, you can ignore the red flags with him for a little bit. You understand why people give him a chance.

• 1:41:52David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:53Griffin Newman?

  Rupert, everything just feels off.

• 1:41:55David Sims?

  It's, but like, at the same time, I never really think Rupert's gonna kill anyone.

• 1:41:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:00David Sims?

  He's not dangerous in that way, but he is unsettling.

• 1:42:03Speaker 02

  He's unsettling, but again, he's so pathetic. And it's also, again, the, you can see, even though we see him for who he is through the, the movie does that, you also understand how, in doses, you could be convinced this is just a harmless guy who's a little, maybe a little slow, but even maybe not. Maybe just kind of a weird, like, nice guy who really wants it, you know what I mean? But yes, very quickly, we see him, because they show him in the scrum with the rest, he clearly knows these people, he's clearly one of the autograph seekers.

• 1:42:35Griffin Newman?

  But acts like he's above them, sort of, they look to him like a ringleader, he wants to think that he's not at their tier, because of course, he's going to make it, he is going to cross over.

• 1:42:44Speaker 02

  Hasn't done a goddamn thing. Didn't do a fucking mic, all he's done is like, just practice the cardboard cutout.

• 1:42:50Griffin Newman?

  It's so important that this is a, I could do that guy, and not a guy who's actually failing with real stakes and trying to do comedy.

• 1:42:57David Sims?

  But he has been immersed in it seemingly every day.

• 1:42:59Griffin Newman?

  He's got the blade.

• 1:43:00David Sims?

  Like, he goes home, to his mother's house, and he goes into his room.

• 1:43:05Griffin Newman?

  His mother, of course, played by Catherine Scorsese.

• 1:43:07David Sims?

  And just fucking talks to himself.

• 1:43:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, and by the way, his like, ah, when his mom calls him, is the, that's the best acting De Niro's ever done. He's channeled just an annoyed 12-year-old, he's like, ah, and he's so pathetic and such a little bitch in that moment, I'm like, fuck, this guy's, you know what, this De Niro guy's good, man.

• 1:43:28Speaker 02

  But yeah, yeah, and then, he is unsettling, for sure.

• 1:43:31Griffin Newman?

  But you're right, I mean, the movie really just like a rocket, it's like, the opening is the monologue, then it's him having the brief moment with him, trying to get his attention, going to the car, pre-spin credits, and then it goes to another night of them waiting outside, Sandra Bernhard and him getting in the backseat. And then, that's like 10 minutes in, he goes to the restaurant with Jerry.

• 1:43:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:53Speaker 02

  Or he imagines.

• 1:43:55Griffin Newman?

  Going to the restaurant with Jerry.

• 1:43:56Speaker 02

  Which, by the way, that, I, I think that's the moment where they're just like, hey, and if you're, didn't get it, this guy's an insane piece of shit.

• 1:44:03Griffin Newman?

  There's, because, where, you're doing it so early.

• 1:44:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, which I like, because there is a reading of him that's like, yeah, even if he has that conversation, and it's his big break, and, oh, fuck, and then, what we see him imagining is, working on his craft, doing shows, like, he's like, this is what I love, what he imagines instantly, is the guy who just half did him a favor, grovelling, he doesn't even imagine like, in a mansion with chicks, getting fucked up. What he's doing this for.

• 1:44:35David Sims?

  Is Jerry like, you'll be doing me a favor.

• 1:44:37Speaker 02

  Is every, yeah, is respect, and he can't imagine more respect than the guy he respects the most, begging him.

• 1:44:43Griffin Newman?

  He's dreaming of big timing.

• 1:44:44Speaker 02

  And he's, he's dreaming of big timing, he's dreaming of becoming a piece of shit.

• 1:44:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:48Speaker 02

  The thing you're, like, you try so hard not to become a fucking guy, forget, you know, acts like he's fucking Hollywood, like, if you're a good person, you should, you know, fight against it, he's like, I can't wait to big time, the guy who got me my start?

• 1:45:03Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:45:03Speaker 02

  Are you fucking kidding me? That's, it's, that, to me, is the moment where you're like, oh, he is a piece of shit.

• 1:45:08David Sims?

  He talks about how Jerry had like a big break where he was a guest host, right? Like, and he's like, I remember when I watched that and that was, he clearly thinks like, that's what will happen, I'll do one gig, I'll do one appearance on his show, and I'll explode, like, it'll be just this exact same thing. He has no obvious, real notion of what Jerry's life is, which is funny, because it's like, now the obsessive fan might know everything about him. And instead, he has more just like an idea of like, what he is as a famous guy, or whatever.

• 1:45:38Griffin Newman?

  We should also talk about this for half a second, because it is almost a novel concept at this point in time, but you were saying this, that Johnny Carson didn't love working, and every year would take more and more weeks off, and they would have guest hosts, and they would have people under contract, where like, Jay Leno is guaranteed 10 weeks of the show per year, and there were many of them in rotation, and part of that was seen as like Johnny's laziness, and part of it was seen as a generosity of giving other people a shot, and Letterman. Totally.

• 1:46:07David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:46:08Griffin Newman?

  Right, and then Joan Rivers took a rival show, and he like, never talked to her again. Jay was the most popular and most successful guest host, but Letterman obviously had the slot after, and Leno ended up getting the show because they threatened him with. Uh, he's gonna go to another network unless you give him the Tonight Show.

• 1:46:24David Sims?

  Right. He's gonna gazump you.

• 1:46:25Griffin Newman?

  And when Leno took over, he was like, I'm never fucking taking a day off because that's how I beat Carson. I'm not letting snakes in.

• 1:46:33Speaker 03

  He's the guy who, he got cheat, you know, he was the.

• 1:46:36Speaker 02

  He also did it for scale, right? Like they, everybody.

• 1:46:39Speaker 03

  That was his nut.

• 1:46:40Speaker 02

  Everybody, everybody, yeah, exactly.

• 1:46:42Speaker 03

  He doesn't spend that money, the tour money.

• 1:46:44Speaker 02

  No, it's fucking crazy. Like at that, at the trial period, everybody else, there's a story where I think it was in the Shandling documentary or somewhere like that where, cause Shandling was one of these guys too. That's why, and we got the better version of this, like.

• 1:46:55Griffin Newman?

  Larry Sanders is him saying, I don't wanna do a talk show. I want to do a show about a talk show.

• 1:46:59Speaker 02

  Awesome, by the way.

• 1:47:00Griffin Newman?

  The greatest show.

• 1:47:01Speaker 02

  But yeah, everybody else like, hey, like we're gonna negotiate with the network. We're all in, we feel, you know, we're basically doing Johnny's job for him.

• 1:47:08Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:47:09Speaker 02

  We should get paid not, we should get paid real money.

• 1:47:12Griffin Newman?

  Five or six big ones.

• 1:47:13Speaker 02

  Leno was like, nah, fuck it. I'm doing it for scale. I'm a fucking company man. And that's a fucking dickhead.

• 1:47:18Griffin Newman?

  And, and just made it a countdown clock and was like, you have like 15 minutes to like decide before I run off and become competition. But, but this is part of his fantasy is like, well, that's how Jerry got big. And I could get big the same way. And I, I wanted to get the exact line, cause it's the moment for me that is so definitional of what a piece of shit he wants to imagine being, is that he goes like, uh, the exact line is, uh, I'll do anything for you. Just please don't make me do six weeks. Right? That I'll give you anything, but don't ask me to do six weeks. I can't take over the show for six weeks.

• 1:47:56Griffin Newman?

  And that he plays it with such exasperation. It's not even, he's dreaming of a brush off of being like, I don't know, six weeks is a long time. He's like, six weeks said, kill me, Jerry, please. What other favor can I do for you? Not hosting the show that I currently dream about hosting.

• 1:48:12Speaker 02

  He's past the dream.

• 1:48:13Griffin Newman?

  He's dreaming about being past it.

• 1:48:14Speaker 02

  He didn't even dream one time hosting the show.

• 1:48:17Griffin Newman?

  No, no, he jumped.

• 1:48:18Speaker 02

  Fucking.

• 1:48:19Speaker 03

  He's still just dreaming of having the same shitty mustache and haircut.

• 1:48:23Griffin Newman?

  But everyone loves them.

• 1:48:24Speaker 02

  The look isn't going anywhere.

• 1:48:25Speaker 03

  The worst suits of all time.

• 1:48:27Griffin Newman?

  Dialed in. But, but also like while this conversation is happening, the Sardi's caricature artist is there drawing.

• 1:48:34Speaker 03

  He's like, he made you bigger.

• 1:48:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:36Speaker 03

  Which I think is really funny. In his dream, he's still like getting cocked a little bit. He's a little petty. Yeah.

• 1:48:42Griffin Newman?

  But that, this is all like 15 minutes of the movie.

• 1:48:45Speaker 02

  It's so fast.

• 1:48:45Griffin Newman?

  You're straight to it.

• 1:48:47Speaker 02

  And then he goes right from there. He shows you that the operator, the, the, um, what's important to him, the like, number one, big time, my hero. Number two, go to engage in a romantic relationship with the symbolic woman. The woman I loved when I was fucking 16 and I was too much of a coward. Now I'm using the cred of having a conversation with Jerry Langford to now, I immediately need to turn this into a, again, symbolic relationship.

• 1:49:19Griffin Newman?

  If I can convince her that I'm a big deal, I closed the loop. Like that's what it is. It's that he never got over the fact that she wouldn't, you know, that she wouldn't give him the time of day or didn't see him that way, or that he never had the courage or whatever it is. He is still suck on, man, I wish I had dated her when I was 16. I wish I had kissed her one time.

• 1:49:38Speaker 02

  Which by the way, another thing they nail about everyone that wants to be a standup comedian.

• 1:49:41Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:49:42Speaker 02

  It's like, if I had gotten pussy in high school, I'm probably a lawyer in Baltimore right now. You know what I, like truly, it's like, it's like you're just trying, everyone is just looking, this is the one thing you can do for attention from beautiful girls. But what's interesting about him is, and I think they make a very explicit point of saying this, like, look, she doesn't even remember him. She's clearly, her life's not going good because she agrees to go out with him.

• 1:50:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:05Speaker 02

  And she, she even is not having a good time. And then at the very end, she's like, well, I guess you're entitled to come up for some coffee, which is like, look, I'll suck you off. Just leave me alone. And he doesn't want to. He's like, how, he's almost like offended that, cause this is not about that to him.

• 1:50:20Griffin Newman?

  No, and he also doesn't want pity. It's like, to him, the only thing he wants is for her to be impressed by him. And in the same way, it's like, he would fantasize about being like, come on, I'm tired. We've already fucked five times today.

• 1:50:35Speaker 02

  Right, right. Yeah, yes.

• 1:50:36Griffin Newman?

  He'll leapfrog to that over dreaming of sleeping with her.

• 1:50:39Speaker 02

  But it's not, cause it's about his king and queen.

• 1:50:42Griffin Newman?

  Yes, exactly.

• 1:50:43Speaker 02

  It's, it's proof of the girl, the specific girl. It's like, he's just trying to be cool for high school.

• 1:50:49Griffin Newman?

  You made something of yourself.

• 1:50:50Speaker 02

  I mean, look at the, not the jump, we can go chronological, but jump ahead to the fucking.

• 1:50:54Speaker 03

  Nothing, there's not a lot of plot until he gets to his house. Like the first half of the movie is relatively disconnected. And like they, it's mostly just his fantasy.

• 1:51:02Griffin Newman?

  But he goes to drop off the tape.

• 1:51:04Speaker 03

  It flows for sure.

• 1:51:05Griffin Newman?

  Right. That scene that's so uncomfortable where he just keeps being like, well, we'll get back to you. And he's like, so about what time do you think?

• 1:51:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:12Griffin Newman?

  I can just wait here. I don't have anywhere to be. I like this chair.

• 1:51:15Speaker 03

  The first half of the movie is him getting brushed off largely not even by Jerry.

• 1:51:19Griffin Newman?

  And kind of politely.

• 1:51:20Speaker 02

  Very politely, I would say. For the, for the, for the context, incredibly politely.

• 1:51:25Speaker 03

  And then like, I feel like it kicks into the second act. Once he goes to Jerry's house and Jerry has to kinda like, you know, remove him more, like, you know, has to humiliate him essentially. I just was gonna say, cause I don't wanna skip over it, when he is having the, the dream sequence, the next moment or next scene is showing Jerry at home.

• 1:51:49Speaker 02

  Right. How sad his life is.

• 1:51:51Speaker 03

  His fucking life is pathetic.

• 1:51:52Speaker 02

  That's a great point.

• 1:51:53Speaker 03

  And I think that is a really, I didn't pick up on that.

• 1:51:55Speaker 02

  That's a great point.

• 1:51:56Speaker 03

  When I first saw this movie as a younger man, but now really recognize, like this guy has achieved the dream. And he is sad and lonely, eating a fucking like sandwich in his like palatial home.

• 1:52:09David Sims?

  Right. With his staff who are like, good job.

• 1:52:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:12Griffin Newman?

  No. A lot of that feels like Johnny Carson commentary, who was famously a very antisocial guy. Like just didn't like talk to people, right? Didn't have friends in show business outside of the show. Was divorced many, many times and was just kind of like a quiet to himself alcoholic.

• 1:52:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:29Griffin Newman?

  And, and that was like basically known, like he would make jokes on air about like another big divorce settlement. And then seem like the most personable guy in the world on television.

• 1:52:40David Sims?

  The joke that I think about with Carthens, Carson, I think it's George Axelrod, was he was basically like, if people had like red lights in the middle of their heads, then Johnny would be really social. Like if he, if essentially like, if there's a camera on, that's when he's like that. And he just couldn't operate.

• 1:52:53Griffin Newman?

  And there wasn't a guy when, when people weren't around. And that was the problem with every one of his marriages.

• 1:52:58Speaker 02

  Oh yeah. He'd be a great Twitch streamer, it sounds like. Johnny Carson, dude, you needed a camera to be on.

• 1:53:03Griffin Newman?

  Live? Could you imagine?

• 1:53:04Speaker 02

  That would be awesome.

• 1:53:05Griffin Newman?

  Doing 20 hours of a trash stream?

• 1:53:07Speaker 02

  That sounds pretty fun.

• 1:53:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:09Speaker 02

  Uh, that's a great point though, Ben. And then, yeah, like, the funny thing about the house too, when he visits his house too, is like,

• 1:53:16Speaker 02

  he's going off of a conversation he had, that's when he's the most insane. Because everything else is rooted in some sliver of reality. But the invitation to his house happens fully in a dream sequence.

• 1:53:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yes.

• 1:53:31Speaker 02

  Fully.

• 1:53:32Griffin Newman?

  Oh yeah, right.

• 1:53:33Speaker 02

  There is no even hinting at it in any other point. And that's the point where you're like, oh, this guy's fucking a loon. Cause he's been tossed out of the fucking, at that point he'd been tossed out.

• 1:53:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:43Speaker 02

  Right? He had been, he had been goaded into going back up there by Sandra Bernhard.

• 1:53:47Griffin Newman?

  And I think he's already gotten the call back from the talent person.

• 1:53:50Speaker 02

  Oh, he's been rejected. He's been tossed out.

• 1:53:52Griffin Newman?

  Right. But also, once again, like work harder on your material. It's not bad.

• 1:53:56Speaker 02

  Chance. Yeah.

• 1:53:56Griffin Newman?

  It's not, excuse me, sir, lose this number. She takes the time to call him back. What, David?

• 1:54:01David Sims?

  Again, just so funny. We think you guys are just like, I mean, he's close. He's close.

• 1:54:07Speaker 03

  It's kind of crazy. His persistence, like he actually really has this moment.

• 1:54:11Speaker 02

  Should've put it in the, you put that persistence in hitting mics. I mean, this is pathetic, but like, yeah. I'm like, dude, I'm literally a hu, like in everything but comedy. In comedy, I am a fucking like, uh, pull yourself up by your bootstraps Republican. In light, you know, I am the exact opposite of my political stance where I'm like, this ain't, no, this ain't fucking promise to you, you motherfucker. Go out and work, go hit, go bomb for five fucking years straight. And like, he has every opportunity to do that and he just does not. But yes, I do, I cannot help it, David, but like, see this motherfucker and be like, come on, bro.

• 1:54:45Griffin Newman?

  Also genuinely.

• 1:54:46Speaker 02

  Like, just try it. Try it twice, you fucking prick.

• 1:54:50Griffin Newman?

  But when we're saying that he's close, I think like this guy could very easily have a career as like a host. He could be a middle on the road.

• 1:54:58Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 1:54:58Griffin Newman?

  He could like headline in small markets. He would, if he stuck with it, eventually get on at least a handful of late night slots. Because it was a smaller industry. And if you had a good enough five minutes, eventually you'd get it. Would he get a sitcom ever? No. Would he ever become a giant star? I don't think so. Who knows?

• 1:55:16Speaker 02

  Because the thing, the number one predicting, predicting factor in somebody being successful in show business is that they are a sociopath.

• 1:55:24Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 1:55:25Speaker 02

  That is the number one, absolutely predictive thing. That's what, it's like, not even that I respect him as an artist, but it's like, bro, you have the insanity needed and the drive. It's like, how many shitty fucking people do we know that just like, may, like I know people have like spreadsheets of fucking journalists to, to like pretend they're friends with. I know people who have like, you know, know, know when, when some, you know, when they're be, you know, they're friends with agents. It's like, yeah, you're fu, an agent you don't even work with is at your fucking birthday party. Get the fuck out of here. You know what I mean?

• 1:55:57Griffin Newman?

  Like, I don't know if you find this as well, but I, I think some of those people, a lot of those people in fact, once they get not even fame, but like whatever kind of brass ring they're going for. I wanna headline here. I wanna get a TV spot. I wanna get this festival, whatever it is. There's a feeling of, oh, fuck, this doesn't complete me and I don't know how to sustain the hustle anymore. I thought this would all sort of fall into place, but there is that like, that there are people you meet where you're like, one way or another, that guy's gonna figure something out. Because this guy's not gonna quit until he gets some sense of completion in him.

• 1:56:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it's not a meritocracy at all.

• 1:56:37Griffin Newman?

  No. Some guys just fucking grind and, and wear everyone down.

• 1:56:41Speaker 02

  And he sort of did that.

• 1:56:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:43Speaker 02

  If he was even kind of good at standup, he could have done it.

• 1:56:46Griffin Newman?

  To being the successful kind of psycho.

• 1:56:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:49Griffin Newman?

  And he takes a step over the line and can't go backwards.

• 1:56:52Speaker 03

  The king of mics.

• 1:56:53Griffin Newman?

  He's the.

• 1:56:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, he could've been. If you just show up to enough mics all the fucking time, you would just get booked on those shows.

• 1:57:00Griffin Newman?

  Because they have slots to fill.

• 1:57:01Speaker 03

  That's your stepping stone to get on the bigger kind of show and to eventually get into like doing clubs. Cause you get passed.

• 1:57:09Speaker 02

  No, there's a way to do it.

• 1:57:09Speaker 03

  And it doesn't, you don't even have to be funny necessarily. The persistence sometimes is all you need.

• 1:57:15Griffin Newman?

  Just sort of professional enough, which he is. He does an impression of a professional comedian. It's like a comedy adjacent enough that like audiences in clubs who aren't comedy fans would feel comforted by what he's doing. If he could just have like 20% better joke writing.

• 1:57:32Speaker 02

  But, but, but also. He's definitely not a guy who ever will look inward at all. And that's really the, that's his limiting factor for sure is like, he just cannot, he cannot look within at, even for one second.

• 1:57:46Griffin Newman?

  No, and even at the end, when he fantasizes about doing this big, you know, kind of tell all about his life, he doesn't know where the joke is.

• 1:57:55Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:57:55Griffin Newman?

  He just thinks saying like, my dad used to beat me will like make people cheer.

• 1:58:00Speaker 02

  Which is another hallmark of open micers attempting.

• 1:58:03Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:58:03Speaker 02

  How many open micers are like, all right, man, we don't need to hear about your mom getting cancer, bro. You're not, you're not, you don't have the, the, the like tools.

• 1:58:11Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna scare him with dark shit. You're like, everyone tries to do that.

• 1:58:14Speaker 02

  Oof, that, right after that Tig special that Louis put on.

• 1:58:17Griffin Newman?

  That fucked everything up.

• 1:58:18Speaker 02

  You know how many fucking open mics started getting real confessional? It's like, get the, shut the fuck up.

• 1:58:22Griffin Newman?

  Because the whole story was like, she didn't even plan on doing it. She just went up there.

• 1:58:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:58:27Griffin Newman?

  She almost stayed home.

• 1:58:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Fuck, that was a menace on mics, man.

• 1:58:32Griffin Newman?

  And, yeah.

• 1:58:33Speaker 02

  As an open mic'er at the time, who just didn't do any, I was like, I just watched it, but it was like, fuck, this is brutal. And I tried some of that shit about my family and guess what? It wasn't funny for another 10 years.

• 1:58:43Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:58:43Speaker 02

  You know, like now, and even now, it's like, fuck, I'm not gonna be able to write about the fucked up shit going on now.

• 1:58:48Griffin Newman?

  But you know.

• 1:58:49Speaker 02

  For another five years.

• 1:58:50Griffin Newman?

  So your, your hour.

• 1:58:51David Sims?

  There's like someone with a big rolling pin, someone else is smashing a plane.

• 1:58:54Griffin Newman?

  You're looking at pictures of around.

• 1:58:56David Sims?

  I'm trying to talk about this sensitively. I don't know what your family is.

• 1:58:59Griffin Newman?

  You, you talked about this, your hour you did at Radio City, that will be out.

• 1:59:04Speaker 02

  Maybe on Netflix, on.

• 1:59:05Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:59:08David Sims?

  January 6th.

• 1:59:10Speaker 02

  I requested that date.

• 1:59:12Griffin Newman?

  Storm the servers and watch Stavi's new specials.

• 1:59:15Speaker 02

  Let's end this woke bullshit.

• 1:59:17Griffin Newman?

  Stop the steal. Three body problem can no longer command the view counts.

• 1:59:23Griffin Newman?

  I, uh, I, there was stuff in your hour where you were sort of like tiptoeing around heavier family stuff. And then you'd sort of say like, that's for next year. That's for the next special.

• 1:59:33Speaker 02

  Too much going on right now.

• 1:59:34Griffin Newman?

  And it's one of those things, which isn't to say that you, you won't someday be able to like harness this stuff, you know, or that you couldn't do it tomorrow if you wanted to. But I was like, when it just drops as like a stealth bomb of you just making this offhand comment that hints at something a lot heavier, it's so much funnier than when the person comes up and tries to do the Tig Notaro, where it's like for 40 minutes, I'm gonna open my soul. And you're like, you gotta be so precise and you gotta be going through such a specific set of circumstances that are actually unique to call, hold everyone's attention on that.

• 2:00:08David Sims?

  You also have to be a human being with like an actual personality that has like real life experience.

• 2:00:13Griffin Newman?

  Maturity.

• 2:00:14David Sims?

  Big rolling pin.

• 2:00:15Griffin Newman?

  Big rolling pin.

• 2:00:16Speaker 02

  Big rolling pin.

• 2:00:17Griffin Newman?

  Pictures of around.

• 2:00:17Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Well, I will say with jokes, just like movies, it's like, you want there to be much more that you don't get to, right? You want it to be so layered, like, like the best movie, like the shit that has, stirs up a fandom, like Lord of the Rings or some shit like that, where it's like, you see a little bit of, but then people are like, yo, what the fuck are those horse guys up to? And then you start, start, I mean, who, who the fuck am I talking to? Star Wars, you know what I mean?

• 2:00:40Griffin Newman?

  Star Wars.

• 2:00:40Speaker 02

  How many fucking novels they wrote that were just like based on that shit? And standup is not as deep an art form as filmmaking at all, but you still want people to want, you want some more depth, I guess.

• 2:00:51Griffin Newman?

  Some jokes are Boba Fett. Some jokes are you with control of the situation, acting like you're telling them slightly more than you wanted to, when in reality, you're telling them way less than you could.

• 2:01:01Speaker 02

  So much more to it that's actually fucked up, but not funny.

• 2:01:04Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:01:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. But anyway.

• 2:01:06David Sims?

  What else happens in this movie? After he gets kicked out of the, the house.

• 2:01:10Griffin Newman?

  That's when I feel like he sort of translates with, yes, with Sandra Bernhard.

• 2:01:14David Sims?

  Right. It's kind of like, he's like, okay, me being polite and sort of nagging people will not work.

• 2:01:21Griffin Newman?

  Sneaking into a man's car.

• 2:01:22Speaker 02

  Right, right, right, right, right, right.

• 2:01:24Griffin Newman?

  I tried to pay my dues.

• 2:01:26Speaker 02

  Right. Yeah, I've tried to pay my dues.

• 2:01:28Griffin Newman?

  Show up at his home.

• 2:01:29Speaker 02

  Executive producer directly three times, or his assistant directly three times.

• 2:01:33Griffin Newman?

  No, but that is his attitude.

• 2:01:34Speaker 02

  Sneaking to his house with a, you know.

• 2:01:35Griffin Newman?

  Unfortunately, there's no other option.

• 2:01:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:01:37David Sims?

  And I feel like Bernhard is the, what, the nuclear bomb that he kind of knows, like, her energy will be useful to me.

• 2:01:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:45David Sims?

  He's not like her friend.

• 2:01:47Griffin Newman?

  And all these late night hosts have these things.

• 2:01:50David Sims?

  Well, like they're connected by him.

• 2:01:52Speaker 02

  Their relationship is, can we talk about this for a second? Cause it's like, I watched it again to be like, am I, the first time I'm like, is there any sexual tension? There's not.

• 2:02:01David Sims?

  He's not a very sexual character.

• 2:02:03Speaker 02

  That's the point. He is a completely asexual character.

• 2:02:05David Sims?

  He doesn't really have any desires.

• 2:02:07Speaker 02

  Other than respect from.

• 2:02:08David Sims?

  Right. He's not even like, I'll be rich and I'll play golf. He just wants to be on TV.

• 2:02:14Griffin Newman?

  He wants, he, I think even more specifically than that, wants like everyone he went to high school with to see him on television and go, wow, I used to bully that kid.

• 2:02:24Speaker 02

  But he's the man.

• 2:02:24Griffin Newman?

  And look at him now. He, he just imagines that moment.

• 2:02:28Speaker 02

  And that's the, the kind of the beauty of this movie is that it is not about anything but symbols. Like this, this is, this is a, you know, we talk about, we, you know, at the beginning, we joked about it being like him inventing parasocial relationships, but this is at a time, and, and you said it David, where it's like, now people actually know way more about everyone. This is at a time where parasocial relationship, you actually had to completely invent it. These people are not, you.

• 2:02:52David Sims?

  He's an opaque person. You don't know anything about him.

• 2:02:54Speaker 02

  Yes. Sandra Bernhard is like, you know, clear some, I'm guessing some rich girl who like her parents were, you know, whatever. For some reason, she's a rich girl who this person, and this is her way of acting out.

• 2:03:05Griffin Newman?

  Well, that's the Harley Quinn character in Joker Follyaduh.

• 2:03:09Speaker 02

  Oh, hell.

• 2:03:09Griffin Newman?

  But it does feel like it's a similar backstory.

• 2:03:12Speaker 02

  I will say I have not seen.

• 2:03:13David Sims?

  Oh, you didn't want to see that terrible movie?

• 2:03:15Speaker 02

  I started watching some of it. I basically watched enough on a plane so I could take a picture of Tim Dillon and be like LOL and send and text it to him. Uh, that's all, that's all I did it for. Uh, but, um, like, yes, it's she, it's all symbols or ideas. He, they don't know this guy at all. And for him too, it's like, he wants nothing but the symbolic, like, yes, everyone was wrong. I'm the fucking man. I mean, the wedding, his literal principle is like, this is the officiant.

• 2:03:45David Sims?

  The, the most authoritative person you can think of.

• 2:03:49Speaker 02

  That's crazy. He's a child.

• 2:03:50David Sims?

  It's interesting. It's like, when he does his set, he doesn't do any like political humor, right? He doesn't like make fun of Jimmy Carter.

• 2:03:57Griffin Newman?

  Part of that is that in a movie, you can't do topical humor.

• 2:04:00David Sims?

  I understand.

• 2:04:01Griffin Newman?

  But it does still become characterization.

• 2:04:03David Sims?

  Right. Like it's like, no, this guy doesn't even know about that. That's not like really something he gets.

• 2:04:08Griffin Newman?

  In one track exclusively. I also think it's like, you talking about the parasocial. I thought for a second, Stavi, you were raising your hand to make a point, and then I realized you were doing arm exercises over a broken arm.

• 2:04:18Speaker 02

  For my broken arm, my PT told me to do them.

• 2:04:21Griffin Newman?

  I was going to say that it, there has been an extensive history. It's scaled down now that our culture is less uh, monolithic, but these talk show hosts having really extreme stalkers and people who are convinced delusionally that they are in a relationship with this person. And like Letterman had several who were very high profile. I believe Johnny Carson several as well. Leno maybe had zero. But, but you're right. It was like much more of an invented backstory. And part of it was in a world where you're not getting that kind of intimacy from things like podcasts or YouTubers or fucking whatever, people were like.

• 2:05:00Speaker 02

  The closest thing.

• 2:05:00Griffin Newman?

  I fall asleep with Johnny every night.

• 2:05:02Speaker 02

  Every night you see this person.

• 2:05:04Griffin Newman?

  He does monologues to me. This feels like the most consistent relationship in my life. And people you would hear always would like in court say like, well, he was, we were talking all the time and they were like, you were having conversations with him? And they'd be like, well, he would wear a blue tie to signal something to me. Like truly, it would be stuff like that. And when he does this with his ear, that's him saying, I love you.

• 2:05:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, yeah, absolutely. That's again, Marty, on top of it because, uh, yeah, you're right. This is the closest to a fucking podcaster you get, cause they're there every day and they're not acting, right?

• 2:05:41Griffin Newman?

  Right. They're just talking.

• 2:05:42Speaker 02

  I mean, they obviously are to some degree, but you don't know that as somebody watching. You're like, oh, it's just a guy.

• 2:05:47Griffin Newman?

  It's, the trick is he's just really interested in people.

• 2:05:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:05:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:51Speaker 02

  And so, yeah, Bernhard basically goads him into fucking storming. Then he goes to the house, which was a hilarious scene where Jerry's finally like, fuck, you're a fucking piece of shit. You know, Hitler made a mistake to you. He compares him to Hitler.

• 2:06:05Griffin Newman?

  It's also funny that it's like, her fantasy basically is just to like sexually dominate him. It's not even, she's so undeterred by him not only being uninterested in her, but being hostile against her. It's just like, I just want to fucking rule you.

• 2:06:21Speaker 02

  Well, that makes sense, right? He's a powerful older guy, especially if she means something to her parents or.

• 2:06:26Griffin Newman?

  He's like a father figure.

• 2:06:27David Sims?

  And he's probably been around long enough that, right. It's like, he represents something. Nostalgic and in that creepy way for her.

• 2:06:34Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:06:36David Sims?

  Well, I mean, we're all just talking around like the word like daddy issues or whatever.

• 2:06:39Griffin Newman?

  But yeah.

• 2:06:40David Sims?

  Sure.

• 2:06:40Griffin Newman?

  For sure.

• 2:06:42David Sims?

  She's so good.

• 2:06:43Griffin Newman?

  Now, this is.

• 2:06:43David Sims?

  What she should have been like nominated for.

• 2:06:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Did she get critics awards?

• 2:06:47David Sims?

  She got the National Society and she got a BAFTA nom. This movie was weirdly loved by the BAFTAs. It got like seven BAFTA noms, nothing else.

• 2:06:54Griffin Newman?

  Okay. Best jokes, Rupert Pumpkin.

• 2:06:56David Sims?

  No, it's like the whole cast got nominated, like the ba- I mean, maybe it's the Jerry Lewis effect.

• 2:07:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Europe.

• 2:07:02David Sims?

  But like, it was like best director, best actor De Niro, best supporting actor Lewis, like, you know, it won best screenplay.

• 2:07:08Griffin Newman?

  There's like zero Oscar noms, right?

• 2:07:10David Sims?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:07:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:10David Sims?

  Cause it was a bomb.

• 2:07:11Griffin Newman?

  It was a big bomb.

• 2:07:12David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:13Speaker 02

  The moment where she's holding the gun and she's like, can I, can I please have a second here? Like, that was in the, I mean, I thought she was good and had an incredible presence, most of it. But that scene, I was like, holy fuck, that's incredible.

• 2:07:26Griffin Newman?

  She feels genuinely dangerous and it's fascinating because.

• 2:07:28Speaker 02

  Much more so than Rupert.

• 2:07:29Griffin Newman?

  That's the thing. And in 10 years into a career where you're like, I know what Robert De Niro movies deliver. I'm watching this guy who seems a little quiet and introverted, but he might explode at any moment. And in this, he never pops and she's the one popping and she won't fucking stop.

• 2:07:44Speaker 03

  Even when he first kidnaps Jerry and he gets out of the car, he drops the fucking gun.

• 2:07:49Griffin Newman?

  It's so good.

• 2:07:50Speaker 02

  His look is incredible, by the way.

• 2:07:51David Sims?

  I tried his like, sort of, yeah, his dressed down.

• 2:07:54Griffin Newman?

  I did immediately think I, this might be my Halloween costume this year.

• 2:07:58Speaker 02

  It will, people would be like, are you doing a shitty?

• 2:08:01Griffin Newman?

  Tony Clifton.

• 2:08:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, so many, like the big glasses, it's like kind of Leo from One Battle.

• 2:08:06Griffin Newman?

  And then the weird fedora, like everything about it is just so funny. And then the series of signs that he translates into being cue cards.

• 2:08:13Speaker 03

  That's what I was gonna say. Don't walk around with a cue card that says I have a gun.

• 2:08:16Griffin Newman?

  I replicated one for the photo for this episode and I will throw it out.

• 2:08:21Speaker 03

  Good.

• 2:08:22Griffin Newman?

  I will walk into.

• 2:08:23Speaker 03

  You're always on her ass.

• 2:08:23Griffin Newman?

  Our closest.

• 2:08:24Speaker 03

  How to believe. I just wanna protect you guys, okay?

• 2:08:27Speaker 02

  Did I tell you guys, did I tell you a story about like, cause I had a fake gun on Begonia?

• 2:08:31David Sims?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:08:31Speaker 02

  And the difference between England, cause we shot most of it in England, we shot the exterior here, uh, that, so I had a fake gun and you know, I've gotten fake guns for shit and usually they fought, they're like BB guns, whatever. This was a fully plastic gun, right? And I, so I was like, oh, funny. And I just take it out of the gun. I start fucking pointing at people's heads. I'm like, I pointed to a P A set. I'm like, give me a fucking peanut butter jar, I'm gonna kill you. And the, the armorer was like, ah, he's like, oh my God, what are you doing? And I was like, bro, it's a fucking plastic gun. He's like, no, we cannot have that. It's like the gun safe. I guess this is a little.

• 2:09:04David Sims?

  Makes sense.

• 2:09:05Speaker 02

  But it was a hunk of plastic.

• 2:09:07David Sims?

  No, I get it. But I feel like he's like, my larger job is to make sure that no one ever fucking does that with whatever I give them, right? Like it's like, rule number one, we don't pretend to shoot anyone.

• 2:09:19Griffin Newman?

  The whole Rust issue was being like, this is a fake gun. Why would I hesitate to pull the trigger?

• 2:09:25Speaker 03

  Well, also isn't it like a hundred year old gun?

• 2:09:27David Sims?

  No, I know.

• 2:09:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, no, no, that was a perfect storm, but like, those guys' job is to be so intense about everything to correct for the one in eight million times that the worst fucking possible thing happens.

• 2:09:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:09:41Speaker 02

  But he was just being.

• 2:09:42Griffin Newman?

  Jerking off the gun.

• 2:09:42Speaker 02

  He was just being a real Ben about the gun stuff. That's all I'm saying.

• 2:09:46Griffin Newman?

  Fucking whiner. Big Ben. The disciplinarian.

• 2:09:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:09:51Griffin Newman?

  Big Ben.

• 2:09:53Speaker 02

  One last thing, when he's getting kicked out, I wanna, I wanna highlight how funny the shot of him running back and forth of the, when it's locked on the hallway door and you see Rupert. And then the camera follow, and he runs past the camera and it follows him through the fucking, that was like, holy fuck, that's an incre- cause the, to go seamlessly from a hilarious slapstick, like him running back and forth Looney Tunes bit, to then doing, I guess, I don't know, fucking, they just follow him through the, it was so fucking awesome. And just, I mean, that was, that was shot. That's another thing where it's like, if that's the, you know, cinematographer, that's fucking awesome.

• 2:10:29Griffin Newman?

  It does feel like Scorsese, Hitchcock and Spielberg are like the three big Western, they actually know how to use camera moves to evoke emotions a hundred percent of the time in a way that feels supernatural.

• 2:10:45Speaker 02

  Cause it.

• 2:10:45Griffin Newman?

  And Hitchcock, it was like dread and tension and Spielberg, it's like, you know, wonder and awe and excitement. And Scorsese is the king of using camera moments to make you just feel really fucking weird.

• 2:10:56Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 2:10:56Griffin Newman?

  You know, just like, oh, what is this weird mood?

• 2:10:59Speaker 02

  Cause it went from really funny to like now frantic, which is kind of probably what it, you felt like what it would feel like if a fucking lunatic was running through your office. You'd be like, who the fuck is that guy in a powdered blue tuxedo knocking over the Doritos? And then, and then, and then it becomes like, oh, wait, is this guy a fucking lunatic? Anyway, I just wanted to point out that one camera move before we move into the, move on to the like kidnapping portion.

• 2:11:20Griffin Newman?

  But yeah, basically they, they have this, uh, the phone call with the cue cards.

• 2:11:25Speaker 02

  Hilarious.

• 2:11:26Griffin Newman?

  Where he just negotiates that he's gonna be the guy, that the guest is gonna be bumped, that he's gonna get his shot. And then he just leaves him with Sandra Bernhard. And this is all like, let's see, they get into the back of the car over an hour into the movie.

• 2:11:42David Sims?

  Right. It's like an hour, 50 minute movie. It's not, it's not a long movie. It's one of his shortest movies.

• 2:11:45Griffin Newman?

  It's an hour, they get him in the car, they're on the phone, like when he, when Sandra Bernhard is with him for the first time, it's an hour and 20 minutes.

• 2:11:52David Sims?

  Okay.

• 2:11:52Griffin Newman?

  He's in the studio around the same time.

• 2:11:54David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

• 2:11:55Griffin Newman?

  And then the movie at this point is just like Sandra Bernhard's going off and De Niro's getting ready.

• 2:12:00David Sims?

  Taped up and De Niro, yeah. And.

• 2:12:03Griffin Newman?

  His tape suit is so funny.

• 2:12:05Speaker 02

  Tape suit, again, some, just as pure slapstick cut, there's so many funny cuts and like how he'd be, like him mad is such a funny laugh.

• 2:12:14Griffin Newman?

  So much more tape than you think there would be.

• 2:12:16Speaker 02

  So much more tape than necessary.

• 2:12:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:18Speaker 02

  Hold on, let me see. Yeah. Anyway, sorry. I took a couple notes, but.

• 2:12:22David Sims?

  Hey, we love notes.

• 2:12:23Speaker 02

  No, anyway.

• 2:12:24David Sims?

  You should have kept a cast.

• 2:12:25Speaker 02

  So funny.

• 2:12:26David Sims?

  I know you don't have a cast anywhere and then you could have written the notes on your.

• 2:12:29Speaker 02

  I should have. No, you're right.

• 2:12:30Griffin Newman?

  You know what? Speaking of open mics, I do wanna call out my favorite weirdo open mic guy I ever saw, like one of those, like one time open mic wonders, was a guy who looked like an I T guy in his 40s, uh, who said he had taken the Metro North in to do the show. He called it a show. It was a pure open mic. And his bit was that he was doing like his version of Letterman top 10 lists. It was like.

• 2:12:55David Sims?

  Sounds good so far.

• 2:12:55Griffin Newman?

  The top 10 websites on the internet, or I think it was top 100.

• 2:13:00David Sims?

  Sure.

• 2:13:01Griffin Newman?

  And the bit was that he kept being like, numbers 83 to 70. Porn.

• 2:13:06David Sims?

  Okay.

• 2:13:06Griffin Newman?

  But, but for some inexplicable reason, he's wearing like a shirt and tie and slacks and he chose to, uh, pull his tie up and act like he was reading the notes off the back of his tie.

• 2:13:18David Sims?

  I like that.

• 2:13:19Griffin Newman?

  There were no notes on the back of his tie. It's almost as if he had planned to bring a piece of paper with him, didn't have it and was like, uh, what makes the next, oh, of course, tie notes.

• 2:13:29Speaker 02

  So he just really wanted to nail the cue card, the like note card.

• 2:13:32Griffin Newman?

  But my buddy Sam Row Gal and I just always talk about that guy where we're like, we genuinely laughed about as hard as that guy as we've ever laughed at any professional comedian.

• 2:13:40Speaker 02

  I mean, I remember, one of the first open mics, this is how long I've been doing stand up, was it was Hillary Clinton was running against Barack Obama. And there was an old guy and we, the thing that stays in my, is this an old guy who was doing fine, you know, not, not bombing, not killing. And then he just like, it was around the time of the Iowa caucus. He was just like, Hillary, yeah, I'm sure Hillary did really good at the cock ass.

• 2:14:05Speaker 02

  And it was like, what are you, are you saying she got fu- like, what are you even gonna, but he, and he said, yeah, Hillary did real well at the cock ass. And he just kept saying caucus is cock ass.

• 2:14:15Griffin Newman?

  Like, right, is this pointed? Is there any commentary here? Do you just hear caucus on TV and think, that's funny, it sounds like cock and ass? And that's where the joke begins and ends.

• 2:14:24Speaker 02

  And there was, he didn't even particularly seem like a guy who hates Hillary Clinton. Like, he wasn't like a weird Republican, whatever. It was, I think it was just pure, right down the middle misogyny, where it's like, oh, there's a woman running cock and ass, you know, maybe they fuck her in the ass, whatever.

• 2:14:39David Sims?

  You've never forgotten this.

• 2:14:39Speaker 02

  Dude, I, I know exactly what that guy looks like. He's an old guy. He has like kind of that fucking brown gray hair, aviators on, he was wearing a sweater. It's literally seared into my mind.

• 2:14:49Griffin Newman?

  Do you have one Ben, like a classic open mic weirdo?

• 2:14:52Speaker 03

  I'm thinking of, and I wonder if this is a guy that crossed either of your paths. Do you remember Ron? He was an older guy.

• 2:14:58Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:14:59Speaker 03

  He had a pony, ponytail.

• 2:15:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:15:01Speaker 03

  And his whole shtick, he always went at the end of the show.

• 2:15:04Griffin Newman?

  Ron was an Eastfield guy, right?

• 2:15:06Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:15:06Griffin Newman?

  I remember vividly.

• 2:15:07Speaker 03

  And I worked at the Creek briefly. He was always there.

• 2:15:10Griffin Newman?

  Yup, yup, yup.

• 2:15:10Speaker 03

  He would, he would be at every show. And yet, everyone was so annoyed with him because he was terrible that he was always last. And it, you know, it'd be like a fucking bucket show or whatever.

• 2:15:23Speaker 02

  Last in an open mic is like, last in a real show, you're headlining. Last in an open mic is everyone's left.

• 2:15:28Griffin Newman?

  Yes. It also means like you're going on after three hours and Ron would act like he was headlining. Ron would take to the stage with the energy of, here to close it out.

• 2:15:36Speaker 03

  But what I'm saying, it was a bucket show where it was randomly, your name would get picked.

• 2:15:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:40Speaker 03

  And yet he was always.

• 2:15:41David Sims?

  He's always last.

• 2:15:42Speaker 03

  Last one, right?

• 2:15:43David Sims?

  They would have Ron and be like, not Ron.

• 2:15:45Griffin Newman?

  They would, they would tape a rock to Ron slip in the bucket so that it would always be at the bottom.

• 2:15:49Speaker 02

  Look, those, those mics were always rigged. You know what I mean? Those mics were like fucking.

• 2:15:54Speaker 03

  But then he would go up there.

• 2:15:55Speaker 02

  I had the votes.

• 2:15:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:15:58Speaker 03

  He would go up there and just mostly do eating pussy jokes.

• 2:16:01Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 2:16:02David Sims?

  Pretty good.

• 2:16:03Speaker 03

  Ron a woke king.

• 2:16:04David Sims?

  Sounds pretty good.

• 2:16:06Griffin Newman?

  A thoughtful lover.

• 2:16:07David Sims?

  You fucking.

• 2:16:08Speaker 03

  It's like, this is a 55 year old man.

• 2:16:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:16:12Griffin Newman?

  Uncle June thumbs up.

• 2:16:16David Sims?

  And then he sees people singing, he's like, oh, no, no, no, no.

• 2:16:19Griffin Newman?

  Uncle June eats box.

• 2:16:21Speaker 02

  Shout out to Ron, dude. That's awesome.

• 2:16:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Ron.

• 2:16:23David Sims?

  I just always think of when Ricky Gervais did his stupid special where he got to talk to, it was like Rock, CK.

• 2:16:29Griffin Newman?

  And Seinfeld.

• 2:16:30David Sims?

  And he brings up the guy who says, sitting on a cock, cause I'm gay.

• 2:16:34Griffin Newman?

  CK brings them up.

• 2:16:35David Sims?

  Oh, right, right. And Ricky Gervais is like, oh, that sucks. And the rest of them are like, nah, it's pretty funny.

• 2:16:40Speaker 02

  And I think about it every day.

• 2:16:41Griffin Newman?

  He does the Otis Ray and like Otis Redding and they get into the logic and they're just like, the implication that he has to do it.

• 2:16:48Speaker 02

  Because he's gay.

• 2:16:48Griffin Newman?

  The wording of.

• 2:16:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. Sitting on a cock, cause I'm gay.

• 2:16:52Griffin Newman?

  Cause.

• 2:16:53Speaker 02

  And by the way, I mean, listen, what, what is come town if not sitting on a cock? Cause I'm gay 1,000 times.

• 2:16:58Griffin Newman?

  Sitting on a cock, cause I'm gay, launched a million podcasts.

• 2:17:02Speaker 02

  I'll still slip into that. I, you know, maybe, maybe they fucking went back and time traveled and watched me at an open mic.

• 2:17:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. You're gonna turn out to be the looper.

• 2:17:14David Sims?

  Oh my god. Alright, so they tie him up, they, uh, yeah, I don't know.

• 2:17:19Griffin Newman?

  No, it goes straight to basically, right, Sandra Bernhard driving him insane.

• 2:17:23David Sims?

  Yeah, she's so funny.

• 2:17:24Griffin Newman?

  And Rupert getting, getting ready.

• 2:17:27David Sims?

  Tony Randall, very funny as the guest host.

• 2:17:29Speaker 02

  Yes, did I have to say that?

• 2:17:31David Sims?

  Yeah, doing exactly what he's supposed to do. He's really.

• 2:17:34Griffin Newman?

  And Scorsese giving him the, the jokes.

• 2:17:36David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:36Griffin Newman?

  Um, I do, I mean, this is a classic talk about like, it's sort of approach to street casting. This is a movie that has like four different end of special appearance by Blank as themselves.

• 2:17:47David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:17:47Griffin Newman?

  In the opening credits, but you have Joyce Brothers, you have Victor Bourge, uh, you have, uh, Tony Randall, who's such a good like sub in.

• 2:17:58Speaker 02

  Perfect. And that guy that doesn't exist, by the way, like, yeah, these guys are just hosts on a bench.

• 2:18:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:04Speaker 02

  It's just not a job that exists. Presenter, host, entertainment has just gone in such a different direction.

• 2:18:08Griffin Newman?

  And a guy like Tony Randall, who's like, not a comedian, he's an actor, but he's a very skilled comedic actor. He doesn't have like a standup act, but these guys know reliably. He's one of the best guests. If people drop out, always get Tony Randall on panel.

• 2:18:23David Sims?

  And he can read a cue card, like.

• 2:18:24Griffin Newman?

  He'll, he'll fill in, it's fine. He doesn't want to do this, but he'll do it.

• 2:18:27David Sims?

  There are presenters, but they're really now like on TikTok and YouTube.

• 2:18:31Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I mean, I do think some of it is a, yes, TikTokers have become, which is a real bad thing. I mean, some of them are really good, but some of them are fucking dog shit at it. Uh, yes, I think that, and also like, it becomes a, it's kind of seen now as like, alright, if you can't get into act, like, I remember I was offered a couple, a couple of things and my agent was like, we don't want people to think of you as a host. You know what I mean? They're like, so now I think it's seen as a lower thing, whereas at the time, I think it was like,

• 2:19:03David Sims?

  That was the coolest thing.

• 2:19:04Speaker 02

  That's the job you want.

• 2:19:05David Sims?

  Of course, because it's like you run the coolest club in the world, right? Like, it's like, yeah.

• 2:19:09Speaker 02

  And I would love to, I mean, when you guys were talking about the six week, like, I don't want to, these, these shows seem like a fucking nightmare. I don't, I don't ever want to be tied down, but I would love to do a week. That would be fucking awesome. You know what I mean? Like, that would be fun. Um.

• 2:19:22Griffin Newman?

  I'm a little, well, I don't know if I should say this on mic. I don't know if it's a thing you can't talk about. Uh, but I'm a little surprised you haven't gotten the ass to do these types of things yet, but it feels like that's more about these jobs disappearing.

• 2:19:35Speaker 02

  I think it's just about the, yeah, yeah. I mean, I would love to do them and like, yeah.

• 2:19:39David Sims?

  Call Byron Allen.

• 2:19:40Speaker 02

  Call him up. It's time to get unleashed, Donny.

• 2:19:43David Sims?

  Wait, have you done Byron Allen?

• 2:19:44Speaker 02

  No, I think, I think, yeah, I don't know if I'm gonna get unleashed yet. I'm scared to get fully unleashed.

• 2:19:50David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 2:19:50Speaker 02

  Because this is me lea-

• 2:19:51David Sims?

  Lord knows what'll happen, right?

• 2:19:52Speaker 02

  If I'm fully unleashed on Byron Allen's Comics Unleashed, bro, uh, you know, I'm a different guy.

• 2:19:57Griffin Newman?

  He might, it might be the first time he leashes a comic. He might go absolutely.

• 2:20:00Speaker 02

  Leash him up. He's talking about eating pussy in Israel too much.

• 2:20:09David Sims?

  Oh my god.

• 2:20:10Speaker 02

  No, I mean, but those jobs are just like, you do it more like for, it's so funny because I loved Seth, doing Seth Meyers was so awesome. And he's the man, he's, he's great at it. And it felt more like, whoa, this is, this is just like, it almost felt like fantasy camp. Like, whereas like, I would love to do those shows and it is an opportunity to be funny, but it's like, yeah, they just don't exist the way they used to.

• 2:20:32Griffin Newman?

  They're so strange now. Yeah, and it is.

• 2:20:33Speaker 02

  We've, we, we're on the thing that replaced them. Like, we're, we're talking on it right now.

• 2:20:38David Sims?

  And now Seth has one of these. And now, I'm sure Colbert will soon announce that he has one of these or whatever.

• 2:20:44Griffin Newman?

  Our buddy Connor Ratliff said a, a year or two ago, he was like, I had the legitimate thought of which ends first, the Tonight Show or Blank Check. And I was like, Connor, the fuck are you talking about? And a year later, I was like, it actually might, might be a photo finish.

• 2:20:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:20:58David Sims?

  I'm not going anywhere and I don't really get it with that thing anymore.

• 2:21:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:21:02David Sims?

  Oh, man.

• 2:21:03Speaker 02

  Damn, he's right.

• 2:21:03David Sims?

  I had to like cover the last week of The Late Show because the Atlantic cares, right? And like, I was, you know, it's like, I, you know, I grew up with Stephen Colbert. I love Stephen Colbert. I don't watch The Late Show that much anymore.

• 2:21:13Griffin Newman?

  Few do.

• 2:21:13David Sims?

  See a clip or whatever, you know, like.

• 2:21:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:21:15David Sims?

  But so I had to kind of like dial back into it and he's kind of like peering into the past.

• 2:21:19Speaker 02

  It's weird, dude.

• 2:21:20David Sims?

  Like, you know, just like that format. It's not bad.

• 2:21:22Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:21:23David Sims?

  Like, it's a lab for some good stuff.

• 2:21:26Speaker 02

  I think Seth is good.

• 2:21:27Griffin Newman?

  But I'm also like, when's the last time I watched a full episode of Seth Meyers?

• 2:21:31David Sims?

  I watched clips, but I watched a lot more. I mean, I watched Fallon every night.

• 2:21:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course.

• 2:21:35David Sims?

  But that's just a jacket.

• 2:21:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, you don't watch Seth, they feed it, or you don't watch Jimmy, they feed it into your veins.

• 2:21:42David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:43Griffin Newman?

  Right. And then it comes out your balls.

• 2:21:45Speaker 02

  But it was the weird thing of Colbert, when he had that show, I remember being really excited because I loved Colbert and I loved The Colbert Report. And I was like, oh, this guy is an interesting, he's this, he's, he's, he's done an interesting show. There's some of the best satire. He's going to do something different with this.

• 2:22:01David Sims?

  Right, and instead, no, he more fit to the, the old fashioned format.

• 2:22:05Speaker 02

  He kind of neutered, in my opinion, kind of neutered himself to the same problem that I think, I mean, they never let the Conan show fucking breathe for a second. But part of me is just like, I love, like, I want masturbating, like, bring the masturbating bear to fucking a lizard, baby. You know what I'm saying?

• 2:22:19Griffin Newman?

  It's about time.

• 2:22:20Speaker 02

  They would have, I mean, Conan definitely would have figured it out.

• 2:22:22David Sims?

  Conan was the best. For me, it was when Corden went. Right. I mean, we had to talk you off the ledge. This is over. I mean, you were on the top of Blank Check headquarters going like, it's over. You were holding a big rock. You were gonna jump.

• 2:22:35Griffin Newman?

  Ben, Corden was never gonna last that long. He was always challenging the powers that be.

• 2:22:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's true.

• 2:22:40David Sims?

  Right, right. He spoke too much truth on that show.

• 2:22:43Speaker 02

  Fucking wild. Yeah, yeah, you couldn't put it, talk about somebody who couldn't be, who was unleashed.

• 2:22:47Griffin Newman?

  Talk about someone who didn't give a shit, who was just like, I'm doing what I think is funny and I don't care what anyone else thinks.

• 2:22:54Speaker 02

  I have no ulterior motives taking this job. It has nothing to do with trying to break into America.

• 2:22:59Griffin Newman?

  No, I'm not trying to book other gigs. I'm not just desperate to play a mouse in Girlboss Cinderella. That's when, that's really when late night died.

• 2:23:09Speaker 02

  The Fat Mouse?

• 2:23:10Griffin Newman?

  He's, you better believe.

• 2:23:11David Sims?

  The funniest.

• 2:23:12Griffin Newman?

  They changed the name, right?

• 2:23:13David Sims?

  No, the funny, yeah, he's Gus. Yeah, he's Gus.

• 2:23:15Speaker 02

  Are you fucking kidding me?

• 2:23:16David Sims?

  Don't worry, it was in bad Girlboss Cinderella. You'll get to play Gus.

• 2:23:20Speaker 02

  Gus, dude.

• 2:23:21David Sims?

  You'll play Gus. In a better one. It's fine.

• 2:23:23Griffin Newman?

  They just announced a Wicked Stepsisters only movie. I bet you could be Gus Gus in that.

• 2:23:28David Sims?

  Doing that.

• 2:23:28Speaker 02

  Gus was my guy, bro. Oh, really?

• 2:23:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, you should look into that.

• 2:23:32David Sims?

  Hold up.

• 2:23:32Speaker 02

  Honestly, I'm gonna try, dude.

• 2:23:33Griffin Newman?

  Who's got Gus Gus?

• 2:23:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, Gus, no joke, that fat little mouse was, again, I'll throw that into Roger Rabbit and.

• 2:23:41Griffin Newman?

  Hercules, Hercules.

• 2:23:42Speaker 02

  Hercules, are you like, that fat little mouse, so big for me.

• 2:23:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:45David Sims?

  It's like how Emily Ischita talks about how Neon Yum from Star Wars.

• 2:23:49Griffin Newman?

  Was her first Asian representation.

• 2:23:51David Sims?

  Even though like, obviously he's an alien, but she was like, there were just no Asian characters. So I was like, he is Asian.

• 2:23:57Griffin Newman?

  And she was like empowered by it. She was like, I exist in this universe.

• 2:24:01David Sims?

  And you're just like, you see Gus and you're like, this is me. I fucking love this guy.

• 2:24:05Speaker 02

  He's clearly my personality.

• 2:24:07David Sims?

  My daughter loves Gus. That movie is, my daughter loves that movie so good.

• 2:24:11Griffin Newman?

  Really? The original?

• 2:24:12David Sims?

  Oh.

• 2:24:12Griffin Newman?

  Is that her favorite of like the classics?

• 2:24:14David Sims?

  I guess so, because what are the others? Like Peter Pan, that was one I put on where it has like the woke Disney thing at the front where we're like, we're sorry about this movie.

• 2:24:22Griffin Newman?

  Okay, cigarette smoke coming.

• 2:24:24David Sims?

  Jesus, who cares? Then you watch Peter Pan and you're like, damn.

• 2:24:27Speaker 02

  Racist as hell. The Native American shit's out of control.

• 2:24:30David Sims?

  Uh, but like, so she's, she never really cared about that. What are the other classics? She's never seen like.

• 2:24:35Griffin Newman?

  Pinocchio, Dumbo.

• 2:24:37David Sims?

  Kind of bored her. I've never shown a Dumbo because that'll fuck her up. Snow White terrified her and she refuses to watch it.

• 2:24:43Griffin Newman?

  Bambi, you're not gonna show her.

• 2:24:45David Sims?

  Which one?

• 2:24:46Griffin Newman?

  Bambi.

• 2:24:46David Sims?

  Song of the South, I showed her that, but I was like, this one.

• 2:24:49Speaker 02

  Loves it.

• 2:24:50David Sims?

  Right, just absorb the information.

• 2:24:52Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:24:52David Sims?

  This one is news.

• 2:24:53Griffin Newman?

  This is school. Yeah.

• 2:24:57Speaker 02

  How fucking fu- how fucked up would it be, dude?

• 2:25:00David Sims?

  I like buy a bootleg VHS.

• 2:25:02Speaker 02

  And she's just vibing with racist shit. She's like, she has no context for it. You're just like, what? Did I raise, does my DNA contain a super racist?

• 2:25:13David Sims?

  We've heard this before.

• 2:25:14Speaker 02

  Makes sense. This is how things should be.

• 2:25:16Griffin Newman?

  We've talked about this before, but like, it'll come up in the box office game that Song of the South was re-released in theaters in like 1989. Where we're like, they were keeping in circulation so much later.

• 2:25:26Speaker 02

  Brutal.

• 2:25:27Griffin Newman?

  By the time we're like growing up and conscious, they're like, we don't put this out on video.

• 2:25:31David Sims?

  No.

• 2:25:31Griffin Newman?

  They never gave it that permanence. And yet, like, they were showing Zippity Doodah all the time.

• 2:25:36David Sims?

  Zippity Doodah never went away.

• 2:25:37Griffin Newman?

  Kids today don't know what that's from.

• 2:25:39David Sims?

  And they're like, don't worry.

• 2:25:40Speaker 02

  Don't matter.

• 2:25:42David Sims?

  Zippity Doodah, baby.

• 2:25:43Griffin Newman?

  The scene, it would be like Uncle Remus.

• 2:25:45Speaker 02

  Zippity Doodah.

• 2:25:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, of course. Everyone loved it. It's a big hit.

• 2:25:48David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:49Griffin Newman?

  When Zippity Doodah comes on your club.

• 2:25:51Speaker 02

  The little birds?

• 2:25:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:25:52David Sims?

  So I guess.

• 2:25:53Speaker 02

  Bluebird on his shoulder. It's back that ass up and, uh, Zippity Doodah, the two must get on the dance floors for.

• 2:26:00Griffin Newman?

  Zippity Doodah feet, Fat Joe.

• 2:26:05Speaker 02

  That's what the nineties were, kids. I'm sorry. You might not like it, but.

• 2:26:09David Sims?

  So, uh, he does this monologue. Do we want it? We've talked about it already, but like, do we?

• 2:26:15Griffin Newman?

  It's like an incredible sustained performance.

• 2:26:16David Sims?

  I think it's incredible because it's right. It's, it's just kind of funny and regular enough. Whereas that's what I, one thing I don't like about Joker is that he's, he's, he just sucks.

• 2:26:27Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:26:28David Sims?

  And you're just like, yeah, right. I get, I mean, I got it.

• 2:26:30Speaker 02

  Sam Morrell, who the Joker has to follow. My friend Sam Morrell.

• 2:26:35Griffin Newman?

  Better than following the Joker. That'd be tough to win the room back after Joker gets.

• 2:26:39David Sims?

  Right. Ben, what were you gonna say?

• 2:26:42Speaker 03

  He performs in a way where you can tell he's practiced it in the mirror and taped himself and listened to himself.

• 2:26:52David Sims?

  It's kind of no perfect. Right. Yeah.

• 2:26:54Speaker 03

  Where it's so honed, but again, has never done it in front of anyone ever before.

• 2:27:00Speaker 02

  I will say like, yes, watching that, I mean, obviously we all know De Niro is the best, one of the best actors of all time.

• 2:27:06Griffin Newman?

  Good at being in movies.

• 2:27:07Speaker 02

  The way that he, and they said that he did that in one take too, which is incredible, right?

• 2:27:12David Sims?

  Like there are no cuts in the sequence. It goes on for so long.

• 2:27:15Speaker 02

  They did it. They filmed it like you film a real standup set. And the fact that yes, not only is he doing that, but his rhythm, he does this insane thing where his rhythm is just a little off from the audience, which is like, what a guy who doesn't really know how perform, like you can nitpick like, would this guy even be this good? You can nitpick like, oh, would they even be this nice to him? But in terms of like somebody performing real standup, then that's the best I've seen probably other than, you know, funny people, but that's so clearly a real standup show that, uh, they handle it a different way. And that's done well, but they're really doing standup. He's acting like he's doing standup.

• 2:27:55Speaker 02

  And like, you know, again, before I rewatched it, I thought it was way more of a standup movie because I watched it when I was 19, when that's all I was thinking about. And I was planning to just sort of watch every standup movie. Like I was gonna watch Punch Line with Tom Hanks. I was gonna watch Lenny. I was gonna watch all this just to see how people did it. But ended up not really being that much of a standup movie, but, but I was shocked at how like, you know, no disrespect to fucking, um, our boy, uh, Will Arnett, who I thought that, I thought that movie was fun, but like, that's not what standup's like.

• 2:28:27David Sims?

  We, which we discussed, obviously on that episode.

• 2:28:30Griffin Newman?

  And everyone was happy with everything I had to say.

• 2:28:32Speaker 02

  I didn't, I haven't listened. Sorry, but.

• 2:28:33David Sims?

  No, you should listen now.

• 2:28:34Speaker 02

  I will now that I've seen that movie.

• 2:28:36David Sims?

  It's mostly Griffin, like open mic doesn't work that way, which is fair. It does not.

• 2:28:40Speaker 02

  That is a hard part with that movie, but I was able, I fucked with Cooper enough where I was able to suspend.

• 2:28:45Griffin Newman?

  I love Cooper.

• 2:28:46Speaker 02

  And there's some weird.

• 2:28:46Griffin Newman?

  I like balls.

• 2:28:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. Balls, but he crushes his balls, dude. But anyway.

• 2:28:51David Sims?

  What if Cooper's like, I'm bringing back balls?

• 2:28:54Speaker 02

  Give me the ball spinoff, bro.

• 2:28:55Griffin Newman?

  This is balls?

• 2:28:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. This is balls. I love that. Are these balls on?

• 2:29:01Griffin Newman?

  I, I do think to your point.

• 2:29:03Speaker 02

  Tap a guy's nuts like a little bit.

• 2:29:05Griffin Newman?

  I think to your point. It's very key that we see Jerry who's escaped. He's pulling the tape off his shoe. He's walking by the electronics store.

• 2:29:13Speaker 02

  By the way, I was watching that. I'm like, if the whole scene, I'm like, this is crazy. This woman's lunatic. Then she just takes her clothes off. I'm like, I think I'd probably fuck her.

• 2:29:22Griffin Newman?

  She raises some interesting points.

• 2:29:24Speaker 02

  I think I probably would.

• 2:29:25David Sims?

  You kind of don't have a sense of Jerry's sexuality either.

• 2:29:29Griffin Newman?

  He's probably divorced like 10 times.

• 2:29:30Speaker 02

  I think he's so, he's just so over it at this point.

• 2:29:33David Sims?

  Yes. I mean, that's the thing about Carson though, is like, he'd always get divorced for infidelity. And you're like, so Carson was fucking?

• 2:29:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. For sure. He's a drunk pussy hound.

• 2:29:42Griffin Newman?

  But also was like emotionally distant.

• 2:29:44Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:29:44Griffin Newman?

  It felt like Carson was in a series of anomaliesas where the second he actually got to know someone.

• 2:29:49David Sims?

  They just turned into a blank person to him.

• 2:29:51Griffin Newman?

  Couldn't talk to them anymore. Yeah.

• 2:29:53Speaker 02

  But I, I think at that moment, it's like, come on. Yeah. He's gonna, he's gonna, he's gonna be like, why don't you cut a hole in the tape? Whatever you do from here, that's up to you. But cut a hole.

• 2:30:03Griffin Newman?

  Maybe, maybe cut the nipples out as well.

• 2:30:06Griffin Newman?

  No, you see him walking by the electronics store. He's pulling the tape off his shoe and there's the grid of TVs. And like notably, the sound is off. He can't hear it and he's just seeing it. And they cut to Jerry Lewis and the amount of contempt on his face.

• 2:30:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:30:19Griffin Newman?

  And it's not just this guy fucking kidnapped me. You can see that what he's angry about is if the sound is off, he looks like a real comedian. He's actually practiced his moves so much that he looks right in front of that curtain. He's got the right gestures and it's just him seething at what is the very end of the routine, which you don't get to hear. It's the first time you cut out of.

• 2:30:44Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:30:45Griffin Newman?

  The unbroken take of just De Niro doing it all straight to camera. It's pan across the electronics store, cut to Jerry walking by. He sees it and it looks like he wants to punch through the fucking window. And he hates that. He can kind of see what the movie's about to reveal when it cuts ahead. He becomes this weird kind of folk hero. It's sort of like, it actually doesn't matter what he's saying. It doesn't matter whether or not this is funny. He looks kind of right on camera. A moment has been created that has some kind of stickiness to it. And Jerry knows TV enough to know that's happening and be like, fucking shit.

• 2:31:18Speaker 02

  And what does that say about everything he's poured his fucking life into?

• 2:31:21Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:31:21Speaker 02

  He's, the reason he's fucking alone in this beautiful apartment is this thing that a fucking lunatic.

• 2:31:26Griffin Newman?

  Exactly.

• 2:31:27Speaker 02

  Could fake.

• 2:31:27Griffin Newman?

  He thinks.

• 2:31:28Speaker 02

  Was his life a fucking waste?

• 2:31:29Griffin Newman?

  He understands how to do something that is so delicate and so ephemeral and so rare that that justifies his life.

• 2:31:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:31:35Griffin Newman?

  And this guy could commit crimes.

• 2:31:37Speaker 02

  Do 85% of it.

• 2:31:38Griffin Newman?

  Right. And people are rooting for him in a way. No one's saying, hey, Rupert, go get cancer.

• 2:31:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:31:44Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:31:44Speaker 03

  And this is what's so scary about the, the era of going viral. People now commit crimes on social media to get clout.

• 2:31:56Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:31:56Speaker 03

  It is so like actually normal now. It's just an everyday thing that you hear about. It's really fucking scary how prescient this film is right this very moment.

• 2:32:08Griffin Newman?

  This is that era where Skarsa keeps making these movies where people are like, is this socially irresponsible?

• 2:32:14Speaker 02

  To be right.

• 2:32:15Griffin Newman?

  10 years later, everyone's like, man, dude nailed it with that one.

• 2:32:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:32:18Griffin Newman?

  He was giving us a warning shot.

• 2:32:20Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 2:32:21Griffin Newman?

  And he was not creating anything. He was commenting on a thing he saw and none of us knew how bad it was gonna get.

• 2:32:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. Another nice thing about the walkout too, is like just some extra filmmaking. There's so much tension where you're like, you don't know when it is and you don't, they recorded it, but is, are they gonna air it? Part of you is like, oh, fuck, is he gonna, cause now they've tricked you into rooting for Rupert, right?

• 2:32:43Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:32:43Speaker 02

  Now you're like, fuck, I want this to go on air, even though I, again, I had misremembered so much shit from the movie for the first time I saw it. I'm like, oh, wait, does he, does it actually never air or whatever? You know what I mean? Like.

• 2:32:53Griffin Newman?

  Is it ambiguous if it happens?

• 2:32:54Speaker 02

  Right, right. Is it one of those, it's like the taxi driver ending?

• 2:32:57David Sims?

  Driver-esque of him being, but like, no, you kind of find it.

• 2:33:00Griffin Newman?

  It feels real. I think more stuff is fake earlier in the film.

• 2:33:04Speaker 02

  Oh, yes. But this one's real.

• 2:33:06Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:33:06David Sims?

  That's how I feel.

• 2:33:07Speaker 02

  He's clearly hallucinating.

• 2:33:08Griffin Newman?

  The, the People magazine cover being the very private world of Rupert Pumpkin is so funny where they're sort of admitting like, well, now the public's fascinated by him, but what is there? There's no guy here. You know, what are you gonna say? He stays at home and talks to cardboard Liza.

• 2:33:24David Sims?

  Yeah. He just wants to live in the TV.

• 2:33:26Griffin Newman?

  It's a very private world that Rupert lives in.

• 2:33:29Speaker 02

  Ma, he's so, yeah, he's so fucking awesome.

• 2:33:32Griffin Newman?

  But then, yeah, it works. He, he gets to.

• 2:33:34David Sims?

  That just always is funny.

• 2:33:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:36David Sims?

  To me, things that are always funny. Someone throws something by mistake and then you hear a cat make a noise. That's always funny.

• 2:33:42Griffin Newman?

  That's really good.

• 2:33:42Speaker 02

  Or like plates smacking. Clatter and then a cat.

• 2:33:46David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:46Speaker 02

  Dynamite.

• 2:33:47David Sims?

  Someone's like doing something really serious and then the mom's like, hey, do you want to say, shut up, mom? Always funny. That's just always gonna make me laugh.

• 2:33:54Speaker 02

  Come on, come on.

• 2:33:55Griffin Newman?

  I'm hitting the nuts.

• 2:33:58Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say, I won't get into specifics, but there was a project I worked on in which there was a producer who fancied himself an expert in comedy, who had no background in comedy and was a blowhard. And he would constantly come in and pitch, can't we get a little person in here to punch?

• 2:34:12Speaker 02

  Well, hold on, hold on a second.

• 2:34:13Griffin Newman?

  He just kept being, there's nothing funnier in the world.

• 2:34:17Speaker 02

  Is the guy has an awesome idea.

• 2:34:19Griffin Newman?

  Big guy, big guy in the frame, little person walks in. He doesn't even have to lower his fist. It's eye level.

• 2:34:27David Sims?

  Yeah, I understand. No, I understand the pitch.

• 2:34:29Griffin Newman?

  In the world of that.

• 2:34:29Speaker 02

  You know what? I don't know, man.

• 2:34:32David Sims?

  This is what I'm saying about the clout coming back.

• 2:34:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:34:35David Sims?

  Where I'm like, we're kind of just getting back there.

• 2:34:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. If they announced tomorrow Eddie Murphy to return for Sherman.

• 2:34:43David Sims?

  Uh, yeah.

• 2:34:44Griffin Newman?

  Colin Clump three or Clump's legacy or whatever.

• 2:34:47David Sims?

  But the problem is it would be like, it's a prime original. You're like, yeah.

• 2:34:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:34:50David Sims?

  And now he's gonna film the whole thing like in his car. He's just not.

• 2:34:54Griffin Newman?

  I mean, Eddie, obviously one of my favorite movie stars of all time.

• 2:34:57David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:57Griffin Newman?

  I now end up only watching his movies on airplanes and just going like, literally, what do we have to do to get him to make a movie for theaters again? Do we have to like pull a Rupert Pumpkin on Eddie Murphy and be like, dude, it's okay to like wait and pick a good script?

• 2:35:11Speaker 02

  Well, do you think for him, it was like, as soon as he didn't win for Dreamgirls, he's like, all right, fuck this.

• 2:35:15Griffin Newman?

  I think that fucked him up. And then, you know, he kind of soft retires for close to 10 years there. He really pulls back and then Dolomite. I think he wanted the same kind of like second wave.

• 2:35:27Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 2:35:27Griffin Newman?

  And.

• 2:35:27Speaker 02

  Which is a good movie, but it wasn't, but it wasn't.

• 2:35:29David Sims?

  But he wanted that to be what's the, you know.

• 2:35:32Griffin Newman?

  The lifetime achievement.

• 2:35:34David Sims?

  Right. Yeah. Like uncut gems.

• 2:35:35Griffin Newman?

  And I think what happened was he didn't get the Oscar nomination and Netflix rolled out the fucking red carpet for him. And he was like, this streaming shit's great. I had fucking 10 years of Hollywood loving to make fun of my movies bombing. Now none of this shit matters. And he's just done like three Netflix movies, three Hulu movies, three Amazon movies.

• 2:35:54David Sims?

  It's just what it does.

• 2:35:55Speaker 02

  Tough stuff. He's the man.

• 2:35:56Griffin Newman?

  He's the man.

• 2:35:57Speaker 02

  And yeah, I'm with you. I do want, I think he still has it won.

• 2:36:00Griffin Newman?

  I think he still has his basketball. He just needs to try.

• 2:36:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:36:03Griffin Newman?

  Even that documentary, which felt like half assed.

• 2:36:06David Sims?

  It's just like, we suck Eddie Murphy's dick for two hours. The documentary was still like him talking is just.

• 2:36:11Griffin Newman?

  Well, what it was clearly meant to be was there were all those stories that Netflix had made a big deal for him to come back to stand up. And the documentary starts in 2019, around the time of Dolomite coming out. And it's him prepping to do stand up. And then the pandemic hits and he's like, eh, I don't feel it anymore. And they keep filming him thinking that he'll get the bug and he doesn't. And then they were like, let's just cut this into a thing about how everyone's like, it'd be cool if Eddie ever did stand up again.

• 2:36:36Speaker 02

  That's so fucking tough though.

• 2:36:37Griffin Newman?

  There are interview clips in that where you're just like, this is the most charismatic performer alive.

• 2:36:42David Sims?

  Incredibly.

• 2:36:42Griffin Newman?

  He can turn it on in a millisecond and he's fascinating.

• 2:36:45Speaker 02

  I would love if you worked with like a fucking, like a real deal director. That's the shit you want to see.

• 2:36:50Griffin Newman?

  He and Spike Lee are always like tempting us with the like, there was the Marion Barry one that got floated.

• 2:36:54Speaker 02

  Holy fuck, that would be incredible.

• 2:36:56Griffin Newman?

  Would have been unbelievable.

• 2:36:58Speaker 02

  Fuck, that'd be awesome.

• 2:36:59David Sims?

  I mean, it would be very interesting.

• 2:37:00Griffin Newman?

  Break culture.

• 2:37:01Speaker 02

  I, I would be incredible, bro.

• 2:37:03Griffin Newman?

  Incredible.

• 2:37:04Speaker 02

  Get with the scene where he's fucking, they were elect him after he smoked crack, after he gets out of jail for crack.

• 2:37:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:09David Sims?

  He's still alive. Did he finally?

• 2:37:10Griffin Newman?

  Marion Barry, I think he's passed away. Did he lose? Did we lose Marion?

• 2:37:13David Sims?

  Yeah, he left us. Okay. R I P. R I P to you, Marion. All right. This film, like I said, tested horribly, was released February 18th, 1983, not a release date.

• 2:37:24Griffin Newman?

  Day before my birthday.

• 2:37:26David Sims?

  That's true.

• 2:37:26Speaker 02

  Oh, a week before my birthday.

• 2:37:28David Sims?

  Hey, made about 2.5.

• 2:37:32Speaker 02

  There we go.

• 2:37:32David Sims?

  Okay, a couple of Pisces.

• 2:37:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, baby. I'm technically a cusp.

• 2:37:38Griffin Newman?

  Uh, I dipped a toe in that Aquarius pool.

• 2:37:40David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 2:37:41Speaker 02

  Uh, the water's fine, brother. Come on in.

• 2:37:45David Sims?

  All right. You're, yeah, you're an Aquarius.

• 2:37:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:37:48David Sims?

  Uh, gross 2.5 million on a budget of 19. So big flop. Uh, Scorsese's like, I think it might be De Niro's best performance. Like, you know, I, you know, and Zimmerman's basically like, I think people just didn't know whether or not they should laugh. It's not a comforting movie. Like it's not giving you kind of like the sort of cues you might need if you're like feeling kind of confused by it. I think the movie rocks. Like, you know, that's, that's great.

• 2:38:18Speaker 02

  I mean, it's so straight to say ahead of its time, but it's like a movie like this right now. This, I mean, look, this is what people, people would just call this a straight up comedy now. They wouldn't, they wouldn't, they wouldn't fucking, you know, say, oh, it's, which genre is it? This is, and to me it is, there's some fucking hilarious part. This is a comedy to me. Um, and yeah, fully, fully ahead of its time.

• 2:38:41David Sims?

  Um, it then goes to Cam in that sort of classic way of like, you know, it's already come out in America, but back then.

• 2:38:48Griffin Newman?

  Reputation. Yeah.

• 2:38:49David Sims?

  Uh, Sergio Leone takes him backstage and is like, it's your most mature film. Scorsese's like, I don't actually even know if that meant he liked it, but I sort of just took the compliment anyway.

• 2:39:00Speaker 02

  You looked great up there, man.

• 2:39:01David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:02Speaker 02

  When you didn't like your boy's performance, like, bro, that is your most mature movie.

• 2:39:06David Sims?

  Uh, Brando really liked it and like invited De Niro out to the island.

• 2:39:12Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:39:13Speaker 02

  Awesome.

• 2:39:14David Sims?

  And, you know.

• 2:39:16Griffin Newman?

  The Moreau Island, the island called Little Moots.

• 2:39:19David Sims?

  Oh, fuck. And Marty went with him and he was like, I figured he wanted to talk about some project or whatever. We got there. We were there for five days. He never showed up.

• 2:39:30Speaker 02

  What? That's awesome.

• 2:39:33David Sims?

  And Marty's like, I fucking hate, you know, like I'm an urban person. I did not want to be on vacation. Like I didn't want to be on the beach. Uh, and you know, at some point, like, you know, someone's like, I don't know. If you walk around, you might find him. And then after five days, he finally shows up or something. And, uh, yeah, I don't know. That's just a hilarious story. Steven Trask, the guy who wrote Hedwig and the Angry Inch, the, the show, what, at one point tried to turn this into like a, a Broadway or off Broadway show.

• 2:40:04Griffin Newman?

  He wrote the music.

• 2:40:05Speaker 02

  I think that would work.

• 2:40:06David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:40:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. I think that would really work.

• 2:40:08Griffin Newman?

  It would, I do, I agree with that.

• 2:40:09David Sims?

  He wrote the lyrics.

• 2:40:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:40:10David Sims?

  Uh, yes. Uh, yeah, you know, didn't happen. And, uh, I feel like you said, it's like, everyone sort of thinks of it fondly.

• 2:40:20Griffin Newman?

  It's become, I feel like the cool favorite Scorsese pick.

• 2:40:24David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:40:24Griffin Newman?

  It's the very Lindon of the filmography.

• 2:40:26David Sims?

  The one you don't know.

• 2:40:27Griffin Newman?

  If you don't want to pick the obvious one.

• 2:40:28David Sims?

  You know what's one that's actually my favorite?

• 2:40:30Speaker 02

  I think After Hours is that.

• 2:40:31David Sims?

  After Hours has been that a little bit.

• 2:40:33Griffin Newman?

  Is After Hours rising more now?

• 2:40:34Speaker 02

  I think that's after hour. I think King of Comedy's still, like, look, I love the movie. I wouldn't say it's my fucking, that's.

• 2:40:39Griffin Newman?

  No, it's not my favorite.

• 2:40:40Speaker 02

  Favorite, but it's, but it's a fucking incredible movie. One thing I was just thinking about, you know what I'd love to see?

• 2:40:46David Sims?

  What?

• 2:40:47Speaker 02

  I would love to see De Niro from Copland yell at De Niro from King of Comedy.

• 2:40:52Griffin Newman?

  They have similar looks.

• 2:40:53Speaker 02

  You blew it. Like they've.

• 2:40:54David Sims?

  You blew it.

• 2:40:56Speaker 02

  It looks like his older brother. It's like his older brother yelling at him. I would love to see that. That would be fucking awesome.

• 2:41:02Griffin Newman?

  That's his like gold wash.

• 2:41:04David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:05Griffin Newman?

  Color money movie.

• 2:41:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:41:06Griffin Newman?

  It's a mashup sequel of Copland and.

• 2:41:09Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Where he plays both characters. He's de-aged, plays young Rupert Pumpkin.

• 2:41:13Griffin Newman?

  The Pumpkins.

• 2:41:15Speaker 02

  Um, that's good.

• 2:41:16David Sims?

  Let's play the box office game, I guess.

• 2:41:18Griffin Newman?

  Okay. So this opens to number one.

• 2:41:20Speaker 02

  You guys don't have any other thoughts? Come on, you know, anything, ban anything. No, I'm kidding.

• 2:41:24Griffin Newman?

  Comedy great. So glad it's legal again.

• 2:41:27David Sims?

  Oh yeah, we're at clocking about 2:40.

• 2:41:29Speaker 02

  That's it?

• 2:41:29David Sims?

  Going on a tangent.

• 2:41:31Speaker 02

  We can get to three. Come on, let's, we'll, we'll do it with the box office game.

• 2:41:34Griffin Newman?

  Number one at the box office, David.

• 2:41:36David Sims?

  It is a big hit of 1982. I mean, that makes sense because it's February 1983. So, you know, uh, we got holdovers. Uh, comedy, gigantic, gigantic fucking hit.

• 2:41:48Griffin Newman?

  It's not, it's not, it's a Tootsie? It's Tootsie. It's Tootsie.

• 2:41:52David Sims?

  Yep. Uh, been out for three months at this point or whatever. Uh, we've talked about Tootsie plenty in the box office game and maybe one day we'll do Sidney Park.

• 2:42:00Griffin Newman?

  Maybe. There's a lot of boring ass movies. A lot of boring, he's got a lot of boring ones.

• 2:42:05David Sims?

  Could do like half of them.

• 2:42:06Griffin Newman?

  He could. And maybe we take off.

• 2:42:08David Sims?

  Yeah. You know what? Tracy, you do it. Uh, and most thing he likes boring movies. It's just like the seventies and eighties. It's just his milieu, you know? Um, yeah. Number two, another comedy, uh, action comedy, but just, you know, a foundation. We were just talking about the star.

• 2:42:24Griffin Newman?

  It's 80, uh.

• 2:42:25David Sims?

  Forty eight hours.

• 2:42:26Griffin Newman?

  Forty eight hours.

• 2:42:26David Sims?

  Yeah. You had it. Yeah. I mean, it's just, you know, just like the foundational buddy cop.

• 2:42:30Griffin Newman?

  It is. It is the one.

• 2:42:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you know, people are gonna hate this. Does not, I, I don't think it holds up.

• 2:42:34Griffin Newman?

  I love it. And I think.

• 2:42:36Speaker 02

  It has four awesome scenes.

• 2:42:38Griffin Newman?

  The Eddie stuff is.

• 2:42:39Speaker 02

  Everyone thinks the scene in the bar. Yes, that scene's incredible. And that's the scene that shows us what Eddie can do. Obviously as a, he comes out of this, it makes so much sense. And there's bang. But it's like, I rewatched it being like, ooh, whoo, whoo, can't wait.

• 2:42:51Griffin Newman?

  See, this is why I'm surprised you don't like him more because I think it's gotten an unbelievable premise. I remember watching it for the first time and realizing what the movie was actually about, not just, oh, a cop clears a criminal for 48 hours to help him solve a case. The movie's about, this guy now has to accompany a cop everywhere, but he's got 48 hours to get laid.

• 2:43:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:43:12Griffin Newman?

  And the fact that every scene ends with Nolte being like, let's get out of here.

• 2:43:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:43:15Griffin Newman?

  And Murphy's like, I was a minute away from sealing the deal.

• 2:43:18Speaker 02

  And by the way, if.

• 2:43:19Griffin Newman?

  It's funny to me every time.

• 2:43:21Speaker 02

  It's awesome. Yeah, yeah. If he's a real bro, he lets him get sucked off quick so that he can then focus on the crime.

• 2:43:26David Sims?

  I got no time for fellatio.

• 2:43:27Speaker 02

  And that's just bad, that's just bad leadership on Nolte's part, if I'm being honest.

• 2:43:31David Sims?

  Got a crime to commit. I've got to solve the crime, not let you get brain. Number.

• 2:43:38Speaker 02

  You promised him one on the back end, too. You let him, you let him smash immediately and you prompt like, once we catch the guy, you get the fuck. That's your bonus.

• 2:43:48David Sims?

  Number three, the box office is a crazy fucking movie that I own on DVD.

• 2:43:53Griffin Newman?

  Okay. On DVD or Blu-ray?

• 2:43:55David Sims?

  Blu-ray.

• 2:43:55Griffin Newman?

  Okay. Blu-ray or 4K?

• 2:43:58David Sims?

  I think I have a Blu. You want me to check my database?

• 2:44:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I'm just curious what level of commitment you have to this movie.

• 2:44:04Speaker 02

  I was gonna start a database for the bus DVDs.

• 2:44:06Griffin Newman?

  Hell, yes.

• 2:44:07Speaker 02

  It's gotten unruly.

• 2:44:07Griffin Newman?

  You should do a Letterboxd list.

• 2:44:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:44:10Griffin Newman?

  That's what you should do, because you should let other people.

• 2:44:12Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 2:44:12Griffin Newman?

  Lock into the canon.

• 2:44:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a good point.

• 2:44:15David Sims?

  Just to check, I'm pretty sure it's a Blu-ray, but that's probably because that's the highest level. Yeah, it's a Blu-ray.

• 2:44:20Griffin Newman?

  It's deranged, you own it on Blu-ray?

• 2:44:22David Sims?

  Yeah, I bought it when I was doing my haunted house, uh, series that I curated myself. This is actually a haunted person movie.

• 2:44:29Griffin Newman?

  Is this an 83 or 82?

• 2:44:30David Sims?

  82 Holdover. Oh, no, you know what? It's an 83 release in America.

• 2:44:36Griffin Newman?

  Okay, oh, oh, so is it?

• 2:44:37David Sims?

  It's an 83 movie.

• 2:44:38Griffin Newman?

  Uh, it's a foreign film.

• 2:44:40David Sims?

  No, no, no, no. It's a really trashy, uh, American movie. It, it's got a really compelling female lead performance that's very good, but it's like a movie that is incredibly like nasty and uncomfortable and thus.

• 2:44:54Griffin Newman?

  It's not like demonoid, is it?

• 2:44:56David Sims?

  I don't know.

• 2:44:56Griffin Newman?

  That's a big video archives movie. Okay, so it's a possessed woman movie?

• 2:45:01David Sims?

  Sort of.

• 2:45:02Speaker 02

  Possessed.

• 2:45:03David Sims?

  Being, that's a good movie. Attacked by like a poltergeist.

• 2:45:09Griffin Newman?

  It's a woman being.

• 2:45:09Speaker 02

  Poltergeist?

• 2:45:12Griffin Newman?

  It's not like deadly.

• 2:45:14Speaker 02

  Words you've said.

• 2:45:14David Sims?

  Not Deadly Friend.

• 2:45:15Griffin Newman?

  No, that's.

• 2:45:16David Sims?

  Deadly Friend is.

• 2:45:17Griffin Newman?

  Attacked by computer?

• 2:45:18David Sims?

  Deadly Friend is, uh, uh, a boy has a robot and then puts the robot into his dead friend's brain and she, she throws basketballs through people's heads. Really normal movie. All right, I'm gonna, all right, I'll tell you the stars of this movie and this is, you know, that you know, movies definitely not gonna be trashy with these stars. Barbara Hershey and Ron Silver. They're great, by the way. It's a good movie.

• 2:45:37Griffin Newman?

  Is it a one word title?

• 2:45:38David Sims?

  Two words. I'll tell you, it's The Entity.

• 2:45:41Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 2:45:42David Sims?

  It's the movie where Barbara Hershey is being raped by a poltergeist.

• 2:45:45Speaker 02

  Holy shit.

• 2:45:45Griffin Newman?

  That's tough stuff.

• 2:45:46David Sims?

  Exactly, and it's, well, the thing about it is it's actually good. Like, because the movie is actually about how no one believes her.

• 2:45:52Griffin Newman?

  Oh, John Mulcahy.

• 2:45:54David Sims?

  Sidney J. Fury, the director of Superman four.

• 2:45:57Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:45:57David Sims?

  But other better movies, too.

• 2:45:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:01David Sims?

  But yeah, no, it's about how no one believes her and Hershey is really good. And Ron Silver is like the one guy who believes her. He's like a weird, you know, ghost detective doctor guy or whatever, but it's a fucked up insane movie. It's kind of like Hollow Man.

• 2:46:14Griffin Newman?

  I mean, I like Hollow Man.

• 2:46:15David Sims?

  That's what I'm saying, you know, where you're kind of like, this is kind of like interesting, but also it's so nasty and maybe doesn't quite have his hands around.

• 2:46:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:23David Sims?

  You know, all the, you know, the difficult topic matter here, but it's not uninteresting.

• 2:46:28Griffin Newman?

  They should let Verhoeven finish his dark universe today. They should let 80 year old dark Verhoeven monster universe, all of the monsters are sexual predators.

• 2:46:37Speaker 02

  Is that what he wanted to do? What do you?

• 2:46:39Griffin Newman?

  No, I'm just saying it should have happened. He did one. He did what if Invisible Man was really, really horny?

• 2:46:45Speaker 02

  Gotcha.

• 2:46:45Griffin Newman?

  Which I would argue is part of the larger, you were talking about Wolf earlier, but the Sony pop monsters who fuck.

• 2:46:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, right.

• 2:46:51Griffin Newman?

  Which was an unofficial franchise that starts with Bram Stoker's Dracula, goes to.

• 2:46:56Speaker 02

  Banger.

• 2:46:57Griffin Newman?

  Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, but then just goes modern horny Wolf and Hollow Man.

• 2:47:02Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 2:47:02Griffin Newman?

  And they never got to Creature. That's sort of what I guess Del Toro is correcting with Shape of Water.

• 2:47:09Speaker 02

  With everything he's ever made.

• 2:47:11Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:47:11Speaker 02

  I mean.

• 2:47:12Griffin Newman?

  What if the monster?

• 2:47:13Speaker 02

  Shout out to him, dude. It's awesome to just be like, what if a fucked up looking guy got pussy?

• 2:47:20Griffin Newman?

  Every movie is that, when you're a fat guy who makes movies.

• 2:47:24Speaker 02

  But maybe he's handsome from a certain point of view. She considers him actually more handsome than regular guys.

• 2:47:31Griffin Newman?

  Respect, bro. Like I said, that's why I started doing stand up. So you could be casting your mother.

• 2:47:36David Sims?

  I think you and Guillermo would get along. I want to make that happen.

• 2:47:40Speaker 02

  I fucking love that guy.

• 2:47:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, you like building model kits?

• 2:47:42Speaker 02

  I didn't know, he lives in fucking Toronto, apparently.

• 2:47:45Griffin Newman?

  Oh, well, he spends a lot of time. Production, man.

• 2:47:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:47:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Okay, that was number four?

• 2:47:49David Sims?

  That was number three. Number four is the Best Picture winner of 1982.

• 2:47:53Griffin Newman?

  So that would have been Gandhi?

• 2:47:55David Sims?

  Yep, that's correct.

• 2:47:56Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Get an Indian guy, apply a little layer to him, though, still. I love how they still were like, let's hit Kingsley with a little spray tan.

• 2:48:03Griffin Newman?

  A little.

• 2:48:04Speaker 02

  Just a little.

• 2:48:06Griffin Newman?

  Let's hit him with a little bronzer.

• 2:48:07Speaker 02

  Funny move to be like, look, he is Indian.

• 2:48:10David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:48:10Speaker 02

  Oh, we're gonna give him a little spritz.

• 2:48:12Griffin Newman?

  People aren't gonna be happy. Unless he really looks like a cartoon character.

• 2:48:17Speaker 02

  It's not fucking, uh, what's his face playing Genghis Khan, but it's still, you know, pretty funny.

• 2:48:22Griffin Newman?

  That is so insane that John Wayne did that movie.

• 2:48:24Speaker 02

  It's awesome, the in between being like, we shouldn't do this. They're like, why don't we just get a guy who technically is, but fucking really amp it up a little bit? That was, that was Hollywood being woke.

• 2:48:34David Sims?

  That was Hollywood being woke back then, where they were like, relax, we didn't.

• 2:48:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:48:38David Sims?

  You know, I'm fucking John Wayne, so relax.

• 2:48:41Griffin Newman?

  But we brought out a bunch of crayons.

• 2:48:44David Sims?

  Number five is a movie with the same title as a CBS TV show in the 2000s. It is a drama about a missing kid. It is basically like Eton Pat's The Movie. Like, it's not about Eton Pat's exactly, who's the boy who was, uh, who disappeared in New York in the 70s.

• 2:49:01Griffin Newman?

  Title as a.

• 2:49:02David Sims?

  Like, when I was a kid, like, my family was basically like Eton Pat's and Eric Clapton's kid. They were like, you know, don't talk to strangers and hold my hand on the street and don't you walk out of any windows, like, on any tall buildings? Like, those are the two kid stories that were like burned into my parents' brains.

• 2:49:20Griffin Newman?

  2000s or 2010s?

• 2:49:21David Sims?

  2000s or?

• 2:49:22Griffin Newman?

  2000s.

• 2:49:23David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:49:23Griffin Newman?

  Like a procedural?

• 2:49:24Speaker 02

  CSI Miami.

• 2:49:26David Sims?

  Yeah, the show, the movie's called CSI Miami.

• 2:49:29Griffin Newman?

  It's not.

• 2:49:30David Sims?

  It was a CBS procedural about missing persons.

• 2:49:32Speaker 02

  Oh, missing.

• 2:49:33David Sims?

  What was it called?

• 2:49:34Speaker 02

  Oh, Threeers.

• 2:49:35David Sims?

  It ran for years.

• 2:49:36Griffin Newman?

  Without a trace?

• 2:49:36David Sims?

  Without a trace.

• 2:49:37Griffin Newman?

  Without a trace.

• 2:49:38David Sims?

  And that is this movie, Stanley R. Jaffe's Without a Trace.

• 2:49:41Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:49:42David Sims?

  Who, it stars, uh, Kate Nelligan and Judd Hirsch. I think it's, it's, I don't know. I mean, one of these movies where like, who the fuck would want to see this? What is it about?

• 2:49:50Griffin Newman?

  This kid's missing.

• 2:49:50David Sims?

  Getting, you know.

• 2:49:51Griffin Newman?

  I'm Judd Hirsch, the kid's missing.

• 2:49:53Speaker 02

  Pretty good.

• 2:49:54Griffin Newman?

  Where's that kid at?

• 2:49:55Speaker 02

  We gotta find him.

• 2:49:56David Sims?

  He sounds not that stressed out, I'll say. I'm a little suspicious.

• 2:50:00Griffin Newman?

  That's, that's his attitude, though. It's just always lightly stressed out.

• 2:50:03Speaker 02

  True.

• 2:50:03Griffin Newman?

  Where's my cab? I want to drive my cab.

• 2:50:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, no matter if it's like life or death, or he's just like, you know, on, on the way to meet a friend for lunch. He has the same vibe.

• 2:50:10Griffin Newman?

  I'm never fully calm, but I'm never too stressed out.

• 2:50:13David Sims?

  I mean, it's just the part of Independence Day where he goes, John Lennon, nice guy, someone shot him. And I just want someone else to be like, what the fuck? Who's this fucking guy?

• 2:50:21Griffin Newman?

  I know.

• 2:50:21David Sims?

  There are aliens.

• 2:50:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:50:23David Sims?

  Why is he here?

• 2:50:24Griffin Newman?

  Also, Hirsch is like 15 days older than Goldblum and they're like, look at this ancient old Jewish.

• 2:50:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:50:30Griffin Newman?

  He's like seven years or something.

• 2:50:32David Sims?

  Like a silver tan, a spray on the hair.

• 2:50:34Speaker 02

  Aliens in this economy?

• 2:50:36David Sims?

  Yeah, movie, it's just the Roland Emmerich thing where he's like, I love America.

• 2:50:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:50:41David Sims?

  There's an old Jewish guy.

• 2:50:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:50:43David Sims?

  He has the wisdom.

• 2:50:44Griffin Newman?

  It's my favorite thing. I was, I, I gotta tell you, talking about ordering discs, my finger was hovering over that 2012 4K UHD the other night. I was like, do I need this on the shelf? And is there a steal is what I was asking myself.

• 2:50:57Speaker 02

  I'm with you, that's a, that's a, such a foundational, that's, now that's a bust movie to its.

• 2:51:02Griffin Newman?

  That's a bust movie.

• 2:51:03Speaker 02

  Hell. Oh, we actually did watch it on the bus this, this, this go around.

• 2:51:06David Sims?

  And?

• 2:51:07Speaker 02

  Banger.

• 2:51:08Griffin Newman?

  Banger. When you talk about like 90s Grisham being like drugs to you, that's like any Roland Emmerich movie where humanity has to band together to defeat a thing.

• 2:51:18David Sims?

  They do band together.

• 2:51:18Speaker 02

  What else? Wait, wait, give me the other ones.

• 2:51:20Griffin Newman?

  Day After Tomorrow, I rewatched recently, slapped so hard, maybe best American film of all time. Rewatched Godzilla, also recently bought the 4K steelbook.

• 2:51:28Speaker 02

  Kind of fun.

• 2:51:29Griffin Newman?

  All of them are half the worst film I've ever seen, half the best movie I've ever seen.

• 2:51:33David Sims?

  Godzilla's got enough stuff that I can never quite dismiss it.

• 2:51:37Griffin Newman?

  Here's what we know, he's eight, 1,000 feet tall, he breathes fire, he's got electric scales and he's pregnant?

• 2:51:45David Sims?

  Yeah, maybe it's not the best.

• 2:51:46Griffin Newman?

  Godzilla is a mama.

• 2:51:48Speaker 02

  All I remember is, uh, is the P. Diddy Kashmir song.

• 2:51:53David Sims?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:51:53Speaker 02

  That's all I remember from Godfather.

• 2:51:54David Sims?

  That was track one on the fucking.

• 2:51:56Speaker 02

  Godfather from.

• 2:51:57David Sims?

  Yeah, on the Godfather.

• 2:52:02David Sims?

  Come with me.

• 2:52:02Speaker 03

  I got the real life shit from front to back, right?

• 2:52:06David Sims?

  Keep going?

• 2:52:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:52:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:52:07Speaker 03

  Where, I can't remember the rest.

• 2:52:09David Sims?

  I don't know.

• 2:52:09Griffin Newman?

  That also has the wallflowers.

• 2:52:12Speaker 03

  Like part.

• 2:52:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:52:13Speaker 03

  You know?

• 2:52:13Speaker 02

  That's what seared into my memory, because I never saw the movie as a kid, but that, they played the video all the time.

• 2:52:18Griffin Newman?

  And he's standing in the middle of Times Square, inviting Godzilla to come face him.

• 2:52:22Speaker 02

  And like.

• 2:52:24Griffin Newman?

  Face to face to Godzilla, Godzilla leans down to like make eye contact with Puffy.

• 2:52:29Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 2:52:29David Sims?

  The whole thing with Puff Daddy was like, even as a kid, I was like, he's not a good rapper.

• 2:52:34Griffin Newman?

  No, he's actually speaking once every 45 seconds.

• 2:52:37David Sims?

  I knew that.

• 2:52:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, that is true.

• 2:52:39David Sims?

  It was partly that also like as a kid, I'm just fucking watching MTV and I do get to see Busta Rhymes or whatever.

• 2:52:45Speaker 02

  Made.

• 2:52:46David Sims?

  Quite, quite a good rapper.

• 2:52:48Speaker 02

  Anytime, anytime.

• 2:52:49David Sims?

  Incredible.

• 2:52:50Speaker 02

  Anytime, yeah, uh, uh, Puffy was on any track, it was like, these lines have clearly been written for him, but you know.

• 2:52:56Griffin Newman?

  But meanwhile.

• 2:52:57Speaker 02

  But, you know.

• 2:52:58Griffin Newman?

  DJ Khalid, his ears are burning and he's going like, wait a second, what if I did this but said less?

• 2:53:03David Sims?

  What if I did this with less effort?

• 2:53:05Speaker 02

  Which is more respectable somehow.

• 2:53:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:53:07David Sims?

  But like Busta Rhymes, it just felt like somebody had snuck on to empty, those things are in, those videos are insane.

• 2:53:12Griffin Newman?

  Incredible.

• 2:53:13David Sims?

  All right.

• 2:53:15David Sims?

  The, alright, so that's the top five. Number six is Sophie's Choice. Number seven, you know, good. I don't know, whatever.

• 2:53:21Griffin Newman?

  Roland Emmerich directed that one too.

• 2:53:22David Sims?

  For sure. Number seven is The Verdict. Actually incredible.

• 2:53:25Speaker 02

  One of the best.

• 2:53:26David Sims?

  Bro. Let, number eight is Let's Spend the Night Together, which is the Stones concert movie like of, that's directed by Hal Ashby.

• 2:53:34Griffin Newman?

  Oh.

• 2:53:35David Sims?

  Of like, kind of their eighties, you know, kind of getting it all together. I don't know. Number nine is E.T., which has obviously just been out for like six months.

• 2:53:43Griffin Newman?

  Quite successful.

• 2:53:43David Sims?

  And number 10 is The Dark Crystal.

• 2:53:45Griffin Newman?

  Hey.

• 2:53:45David Sims?

  A Griffin movie.

• 2:53:46Speaker 02

  I love the Dark.

• 2:53:47Griffin Newman?

  Quite a Griffin movie. One, we will hopefully cover someday on this podcast.

• 2:53:50David Sims?

  Yeah, sure.

• 2:53:52Griffin Newman?

  I'll take that.

• 2:53:54David Sims?

  Yeah. Like I said, I'm gonna string up a hammock.

• 2:53:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:53:58David Sims?

  I'll just take a big old nap. Once in a while, I'll be like, I like the puppets.

• 2:54:02Griffin Newman?

  You gotta be engaged. You gotta be locked in.

• 2:54:04Speaker 02

  David Bowie, just the most clearly pedophile he's ever played. Oh.

• 2:54:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, that's, but that character, I mean, that is a movie about.

• 2:54:11Speaker 02

  Which one is?

• 2:54:12David Sims?

  Dark Crystal is really complicated one with all puppets.

• 2:54:15Speaker 02

  That's a fucking good one, dude.

• 2:54:17Griffin Newman?

  It's beautiful.

• 2:54:17Speaker 02

  That's a great movie.

• 2:54:18Griffin Newman?

  The Squexis?

• 2:54:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, I like that one.

• 2:54:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:54:21David Sims?

  Right. It's got like people puppets, kind of. I know they're like aliens, but they got it, but they have like faces.

• 2:54:27Griffin Newman?

  They have faces. Yeah, but there's no human beings in the whole movie.

• 2:54:30David Sims?

  No, but I'm saying like the, no, I'm saying the puppets kind of look a little more like people than say.

• 2:54:34Griffin Newman?

  They're like Brian Crowe ferry people.

• 2:54:36David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:54:37Griffin Newman?

  Rather than like their fucking monsters and muppets.

• 2:54:41Speaker 02

  Stop being obtuse, you little fuck.

• 2:54:42David Sims?

  If that's how you're reacting to me, then like you just might not want me talking on those episodes.

• 2:54:47Griffin Newman?

  Never mind, I'm chill. Say anything you want.

• 2:54:51David Sims?

  Well, actually, what that is, is right. It's like John Fuck, the famous puppet designer. And I'm like, who cares?

• 2:54:58Griffin Newman?

  You gotta show respect to Agra.

• 2:54:59Speaker 02

  Oh, man, that mother, this motherfucker's gonna have like an hour on the toys from that shit.

• 2:55:04Griffin Newman?

  Well, it was mostly a cancelled toy line. They didn't put it out in stores. The Scorpex existed, they were reproduced in the 2010s.

• 2:55:11David Sims?

  Just a full bed, four poster bed with like netting, you know?

• 2:55:15Griffin Newman?

  Quite expensive. It was hard. It was a hard collection, a hard set to pull together.

• 2:55:20Speaker 02

  Any King of Comedy action figures?

• 2:55:22Griffin Newman?

  No, you know what? I bought, I think I put it next to the Blu-ray player. I found, I, what I think is the only Scorsese action figure that exists.

• 2:55:29Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 2:55:29Griffin Newman?

  Which is a Rupert Pumpkin.

• 2:55:31Speaker 02

  Fuck, yes.

• 2:55:32Griffin Newman?

  Done as if there was like.

• 2:55:33David Sims?

  Travis Pickle.

• 2:55:33Griffin Newman?

  I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Yes, it's a Travis Pickle, but done as if it was like a seventies Star Wars style.

• 2:55:39David Sims?

  They never made like, I don't know, the Hugo toy or something. I'm trying to, I don't know.

• 2:55:43Griffin Newman?

  They're like Goodfellas Funko Pops now that look like dog shit.

• 2:55:47David Sims?

  Who's this for?

• 2:55:48Griffin Newman?

  Me.

• 2:55:51David Sims?

  And who else?

• 2:55:51Griffin Newman?

  Collectors.

• 2:55:53David Sims?

  Fans of cinema. Like commercially, who is destroying? The answer is, who fucking knows?

• 2:55:58Griffin Newman?

  Cinema.

• 2:55:59David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:55:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:56:00Speaker 02

  Alright.

• 2:56:01Griffin Newman?

  Stavi?

• 2:56:02Speaker 02

  Yes. Thank you, boys.

• 2:56:04David Sims?

  You got a show dropping on Netflix at some point.

• 2:56:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, my special, I mean, Tony's been out.

• 2:56:09Griffin Newman?

  Tony will be in theaters now.

• 2:56:10David Sims?

  Tony is.

• 2:56:11Speaker 02

  Tires is out, Tires is out.

• 2:56:13David Sims?

  Season two.

• 2:56:14Griffin Newman?

  Season three.

• 2:56:14David Sims?

  Three.

• 2:56:15Speaker 02

  Tires is out and now, and I'm pretty sure by now I have at least announced when the special, sorry, everybody, I broke my arm. My special was supposed to come out in July. I broke my arm. Now I'm doing the special in July.

• 2:56:26Griffin Newman?

  You're doing it Sully style. You should have done it in July.

• 2:56:29Speaker 02

  Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And now I'm fucking, you're picking up the pieces and I'm, at some point, I think I have a Netflix special out either now or hopefully within two weeks. Yeah, yeah. Uncle Stav, check it out.

• 2:56:42David Sims?

  Oh, yeah?

• 2:56:42Speaker 02

  Actually, I was.

• 2:56:43Griffin Newman?

  Great hour.

• 2:56:44Speaker 02

  Thank you, man. You did, yes, I appreciate you guys coming out to see it.

• 2:56:46David Sims?

  And just, I, we already talked about this privately, but just for the, for the pod, Van Deris, who you worked with on Tony, is that cool?

• 2:56:53Speaker 02

  He's so, he's even better than you think he's gonna be.

• 2:56:57David Sims?

  Important.

• 2:56:57Speaker 02

  He's not a dick. He was the nicest motherf, he was nicest shit, talked to everybody, like, hung out with everybody. We all had fucking lunch.

• 2:57:04David Sims?

  Cause he's playing kind of an aloof guy in the movie, so he could be aloof, but he's not aloof.

• 2:57:08Speaker 02

  He's the man. He's so fucking cool and like truly a theater nerd. Like being that much of a piece of ass who doesn't need to do anything to have an awesome life. He, he's like, obviously, you know, he, it's helped, how good looking he was helped him, but it's like, he's so about the crap. Like this motherfucker, like, he went to like a seminar on making clothes for like theater, like made his own clothes for, he has a, in Spain, he has his, what he does on his off time. He has a theater that he does theater at in, at Malaga where he like, he's from, he just brought a theater there. And just because he likes live theater in his hometown, he was the fucking man. He was so fucking cool.

• 2:57:49Griffin Newman?

  Potentially his color of money moment?

• 2:57:51David Sims?

  Dude, I think he rocks in the movie so hard. I want him to get like, you know, obviously he's been Oscar nominated, but still like.

• 2:57:57Griffin Newman?

  But it took a while and then there was that sort of like, have we been underappreciating him for so long?

• 2:58:01David Sims?

  Obviously, it's a small movie, like it's going, it's, it's a small scale story, blah, blah, blah. Like I have no idea how it'll go over. I hope it does well, but like he rocks, obviously Stav is amazing in it.

• 2:58:10Speaker 02

  I don't know what you're talking about. You know, it's September, it's, it's number, it's been number one at the box office.

• 2:58:14David Sims?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 2:58:15Speaker 02

  Eight weeks running.

• 2:58:17David Sims?

  It went on an obsession run.

• 2:58:18Griffin Newman?

  It's doing Michael numbers.

• 2:58:19David Sims?

  Everyone's bringing like lobster claws to the screening.

• 2:58:22Speaker 02

  Matt's dad helped him direct it.

• 2:58:28David Sims?

  That was the funniest thing to me. We were like, I was like, oh yeah, well, this movie was ghost directed. I'm like, oh yeah, the DGA, they love it when other people direct movies. Famously so chill about that. Yeah, they love that.

• 2:58:39Speaker 02

  Man, get off these kids dicks, bro.

• 2:58:41David Sims?

  Truly are haters.

• 2:58:42Griffin Newman?

  I'm also like, I think that movie is good and is very well directed and will be hyper topical by the time this episode comes out.

• 2:58:48David Sims?

  Well, now, they're also saying about the back rooms as well.

• 2:58:51Speaker 02

  Which I'm sure has been a huge hit by now.

• 2:58:53Griffin Newman?

  But that movie absolutely feels like it was made by a 26 year old. I think that's a lot of its value.

• 2:58:57Speaker 02

  In a good way, in a cool way.

• 2:58:59Griffin Newman?

  You never see movies directed by 26 year olds who just are good at the technical side of it.

• 2:59:04David Sims?

  Griffin, I think the corpse of Urban Kirshner ghost directed. I don't even know what people think is happening.

• 2:59:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just, I honestly think there is a, a moment right now where a lot of people in our generation, we got our asses fucked truly.

• 2:59:17Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 2:59:17Speaker 02

  Like a lot of people had no.

• 2:59:19Griffin Newman?

  The cock ass.

• 2:59:20Speaker 02

  Like cock ass, yes, like the Iowa caucuses, but like it's a tough generation to like, you know, nine 11.

• 2:59:27David Sims?

  It's tough out there.

• 2:59:28Speaker 02

  Right into like recession as soon as you're out of college.

• 2:59:31Griffin Newman?

  My mom apologized to me once. She was like, I really kind of botched the timing of having you, didn't I?

• 2:59:36Speaker 02

  I mean.

• 2:59:36Griffin Newman?

  You've sort of gotten all of it, the business end.

• 2:59:38Speaker 02

  We, we, we're the few that kind of, we're on the life raft somehow.

• 2:59:42Griffin Newman?

  Somehow escaped.

• 2:59:43Speaker 02

  The podcasting life raft off the Titanic of being a fucking millennial.

• 2:59:46Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:59:47Speaker 02

  But I think a lot of people who are like, you know, who, we got the rug pulled out from under us, what we thought, and then these kids never grew up thinking traditional success was an option, so they did their own shit. And I think there's a lot of fucking haters who are like, uh, a 22 year old can't do, a 20 year old can't do this. I'm 40 and a fucking loser. How did a 20 year old do this shit? I think that's a lot of it, dude.

• 3:00:10Griffin Newman?

  Also, a lot of it too is like, these fucking kids like had to spend like high school and college over Zoom.

• 3:00:16Speaker 02

  Right, right, right. Yeah. That motherfucker learned Blender because he didn't, because he couldn't see his fucking friends.

• 3:00:21Griffin Newman?

  We took away everything.

• 3:00:22David Sims?

  I interviewed him. That's literally what happened.

• 3:00:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:00:25David Sims?

  I mean, and when in the interview, he said, yeah, so when my first year of high school was COVID and I immediately, of course, shot myself in the head.

• 3:00:31Speaker 02

  Then you kill yourself. And now we're actually podcasting with the ghost of David.

• 3:00:35David Sims?

  But then my, right, my ghost appeared. It was like, oh, that's interesting. By the way, keep talking.

• 3:00:39Griffin Newman?

  But it's like, how did they get so good so young? And it's like, I don't know, society collapsed and the technology was readily available? What do you mean?

• 3:00:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm excited for this shit. I like.

• 3:00:47Griffin Newman?

  Me too. I think it's good.

• 3:00:48Speaker 02

  It's awesome. It's like, we should, more old motherfuckers should, I love.

• 3:00:52Griffin Newman?

  It's like the new Hollywood. We finally replicated it where it's like the inmates are taking over the asylum. People have learned how to make this shit outside of the normal systems. And now the studios are just giving them money and saying, we don't know. We don't get why this is working, but go do it.

• 3:01:05Speaker 02

  Christ, we need.

• 3:01:06Griffin Newman?

  We needed this.

• 3:01:07Speaker 02

  Let them give us five mil, let, let them give a lot of different people five million bucks to make a movie. That, I would love to see that.

• 3:01:13Griffin Newman?

  That's the big note on this episode.

• 3:01:15David Sims?

  It's another three hour episode.

• 3:01:16Speaker 02

  Hell, yeah.

• 3:01:16David Sims?

  We did it. I live in hell. It's great.

• 3:01:19Griffin Newman?

  It's two fifty eight thirty four, although I guess with ads.

• 3:01:21Speaker 02

  You guys are, it's, you guys are, yeah, I mean, David's very lucky. This is not Casino. This is, I could have honestly done, I literally would have done any, I think I would have done any movie, but I think I would have.

• 3:01:31Griffin Newman?

  You said you were very open and we just immediately felt like.

• 3:01:34Speaker 02

  Game's gotta make sense.

• 3:01:35Griffin Newman?

  It makes perfect sense, knowing that, that you were busy. It was like, this was the right time to slot it in and it was great. You, you said, I'm glad you texted us and said, I'm glad that what will certainly be the peak moment of my fame is cresting with you guys covering my favorite directors. So that we, I can convince you guys to have me on the show. And we were like, we're glad that us covering the biggest directors is cresting with your interest so that we can book you.

• 3:02:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:02:02Griffin Newman?

  We both feel like somehow we've tricked the other.

• 3:02:04Speaker 02

  I just love, dude, I truly love, like, I never get to talk about movies in a, don't be funny necessarily first and foremost way.

• 3:02:13Griffin Newman?

  Not with all those?

• 3:02:14Speaker 02

  No, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We talk about it all the time, but I just, I fucking love doing movie podcasts because I, this is what I have sort of, you know, obviously stand up is, I'll never stop doing it. But the last, the last like five years of my life, I've really thought very, I'm starting to think very deeply about movies and it's, I have a blast talking about them. I will do, if people fall out, I'll do every Scorsese, this could be Blank Check with, yeah, with Griffin, David and Stav roast as far as I'm concerned during Scorsese.

• 3:02:41Griffin Newman?

  It's a good backup. You could be the guest host. You could be the Gary Shandling, the Leno. Yes.

• 3:02:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. How fucked, like if Dave, if there's an emergency and David can't be here, it's just an eight hour episode.

• 3:02:53Griffin Newman?

  Don't give him the idea. Don't give him the idea. Thank you for being here. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Next up, in Scorsese is After Hours.

• 3:03:03Speaker 02

  After Hours.

• 3:03:04Griffin Newman?

  Can't fucking wait. My favorite.

• 3:03:06Speaker 02

  It's really fucking good, man.

• 3:03:07Griffin Newman?

  And as always.

• 3:03:08David Sims?

  Well, wait, we should shout out our Patreon.

• 3:03:11Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 3:03:11David Sims?

  Right now, uh, we are in the midst of doing Resident Evil.

• 3:03:16Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm. We're doing the Resident Evil movies.

• 3:03:19David Sims?

  And just a day after this drops, we will be releasing it, uh, Resident Evil Afterlife.

• 3:03:27Griffin Newman?

  Ah, yes, the afterlife.

• 3:03:28David Sims?

  It's a great one. That'd be the best.

• 3:03:30Griffin Newman?

  So sign up for that. Uh, obviously covering a lot of Scorsese stuff over on Patreon as well, the docs.

• 3:03:35Speaker 02

  Patreon.com. I actually ignored a call.

• 3:03:38Griffin Newman?

  From Martin Scorsese?

• 3:03:40Speaker 02

  To do, I was supposed to be on the other end of a phone call with [BLEEP] for the movie.

• 3:03:46David Sims?

  Interesting.

• 3:03:47Speaker 02

  This, is this how much I respect the podcast? I am harming my career. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They were filming a, I mean, look, they should have fucking told me earlier.

• 3:03:56Griffin Newman?

  They should have.

• 3:03:56Speaker 02

  Then 10 minutes before.

• 3:03:57Griffin Newman?

  Don't they know you're on Blank Check?

• 3:04:01Griffin Newman?

  We will cut that or bleep it out and keep in the laugh because the laugh was good.

• 3:04:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:04:06Griffin Newman?

  And as always, I think we can all agree Rupert Pumpkin was this close to getting.

• 3:04:11Speaker 02

  This close, man. Just hit a couple of mics, Rup.

• 3:04:13Griffin Newman?

  This close to making it big.

• 3:04:14Speaker 02

  Hit a couple of mics.

• 3:04:19Speaker 03

  Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hostly. Our creative producer is Marie Bardis Salinas and our associate producer is A.J. McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by A.J. McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by J.J. Birch. Our theme song is by L.A. Montgomery and the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to BlankCheckPod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes.

• 3:05:04Speaker 03

  Follow us on social at Blank Check Pod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.