The Mosquito Coast with Sean Fennessey

We all have those moments where we just want to disengage from conventional society. We often yearn to go "off the grid." But, would we ever want to go to the Mosquito Coast? HELL NO. Sean Fennessey joins us to chat about Peter Weir's 1986 film that tests the limits of Harrison Ford's likability to the extent that Ben Hosley would describe it as "anti-smile." Allie Fox is a bad hang. The Mosquito Coast? GOOD MOVIE. Listen to Griffin and David on the Big Picture https://open.spotify.com/episode/0sdlkXbFIo3ULuekVIX0F1?si=oNzgLW8KR9m3lpkCBm6Xdg Watch Harrison Ford on Conan spoil Star Wars 7 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IyVwEoWw4w The Great Railway Bazaar https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-great-railway-bazaar-paul-theroux?variant=39937681031202 Read Roger Ebert’s review of Paul Blart Mall Cop https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/paul-blart-mall-cop-2009 Read Rembert Explains America: Burning Man Forever https://grantland.com/features/rembert-explains-america-burning-man/ Listen to The A24 Podcast: A Bigger Canvas with Martin Scorsese & Joanna Hogg https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-bigger-canvas-with-martin-scorsese-joanna-hogg/id1351044991?i=1000438151935 Dive into the Hogg-verse with Davis piece on Joanna Hogg https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2022/12/joanna-hogg-the-souvenir-eternal-daughter-movie-interview/672522/ Watch Ham Hat https://www.vioobu.com/ham-hat Sign up for Check Book https://blankcheckpod.substack.com/welcome, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter https://x.com/blankcheckpod?lang=en, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/blankcheckpod/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@blankcheckpod?xmt=AQGzctAh4mbWTwYzCV1pzNT6AMV9o99EOfymi8TLR5mTde0 and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/blankcheckpodcast/! Buy some real nerdy merch https://kinshipgoods.com/blankcheck Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/s/gpcOkQr8Sv or Discord https://discord.gg/Q6YGSR3JrA For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com https://www.blankcheckpod.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 0:03David Sims?

  Yep.

• 0:03Griffin Newman?

  We did a live show.

• 0:04David Sims?

  Yeah, remember?

• 0:05Griffin Newman?

  Ranking Scorsese at the Bell House in Brooklyn. We did the definitive power ranking of Martin Scorsese things.

• 0:12David Sims?

  Uh, it was so fun. Uh, it was very silly.

• 0:15Griffin Newman?

  Ben and Marie were with us and they're with us right now.

• 0:18David Sims?

  Yeah, hey.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Hey, everyone, or should I say, oh? Oh.

• 0:22Griffin Newman?

  And thanks to our friends at Dynasty Typewriter. It was livestreamed for the first time ever. But also, the replay is still up there, but only until October 30th.

• 0:31David Sims?

  So just a few more days.

• 0:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 0:33David Sims?

  You can get it at dynasty.tv.

• 0:36Griffin Newman?

  Dynasty.tv.

• 0:37David Sims?

  It's $20. We had a blast and the Spreadmaster really got to work.

• 0:43Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah. I was moving things around. Laptop was on.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  I don't know if I'd have seen you that happy.

• 0:48Griffin Newman?

  You were thrilled. You were like a pick and share.

• 0:50David Sims?

  I was locked in.

• 0:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, very locked in and you were funny.

• 0:53David Sims?

  Thank you. You were funny. You were also funny.

• 0:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, thank you.

• 0:57David Sims?

  And if you want to see like, you know, Griffin's shine box on camera, it's the only way to see it.

• 1:02Griffin Newman?

  You might see me shine Marie's shoes.

• 1:04David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you're into that sort of content.

• 1:07Griffin Newman?

  If that gets you off.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:10David Sims?

  So once again, that's at dynasty.tv.

• 1:39Griffin Newman?

  Once I had believed in Father and the podcast had seemed small and old. Now he was gone and I wasn't afraid to love him anymore. And the podcast seemed limitless.

• 1:50David Sims?

  I mean, yeah, well, I wasn't like, oh, Griffin better do this line.

• 1:54Griffin Newman?

  No, last line of the film. Now, I will say, the tagline for this film is

• 1:57David Sims?

  Uh huh.

• 1:58Griffin Newman?

  extraordinary. I think

• 2:00David Sims?

  I don't know what it is.

• 2:01Griffin Newman?

  potentially one of the best taglines we've ever covered.

• 2:03David Sims?

  It's a good tagline. It's a good poster. It's a, you know, it's very interesting, very intriguing.

• 2:07Griffin Newman?

  Agreed.

• 2:08David Sims?

  Tell me the tagline.

• 2:08Griffin Newman?

  The tagline is

• 2:10David Sims?

  This coast shore be bitin'.

• 2:11Griffin Newman?

  No, it's not. Yeah. As I said, one of the best taglines ever.

• 2:14David Sims?

  Itchy. Ready to get Harrison Ford this summer is getting itchy.

• 2:18Griffin Newman?

  Scratch, scratch.

• 2:19David Sims?

  No.

• 2:20Griffin Newman?

  The tagline is, how far should a man go to find his dream? Ali Fox went to the mosquito coast. Line break, he went too far. That fucking rules. Just to see this poster where you're like, here's Harrison Ford, arguably the biggest movie star of that moment. There's an article I read when this film came out and people were pushing back against it, where they called out that Harrison Ford starred in more of the highest grossing films than any other star in history. Not just at that moment, he had a greater percentage of the all time top 10, but no one had ever dominated an all time top 10 to that degree. And this poster is just Harrison Ford looking not great.

• 3:04Griffin Newman?

  I mean, he looks out of hell. He looks alright. But the point is.

• 3:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, wearing glasses.

• 3:09Griffin Newman?

  He looks concerned. This is the guy who's unflappable. And the poster is, he looks a little out of sorts. And he looks rugged. And then the tagline is telling you, this guy fucked up. This movie should have made eight trillion dollars off the pitch of Harrison Ford fucks up. There's no world where this movie makes eight trillion. Of course, no. This movie is designed to make people angry. I had never seen it before. I love this movie so.

• 3:34Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 3:35Griffin Newman?

  Well, this is a real. This is, Sean, I think you and I are gonna bond on a lot of things. And I think this movie is great, to be clear. I don't, it's not like I'm contrarian.

• 3:43Speaker 03

  You both, have you met this guy?

• 3:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, this is, this is the wavelength.

• 3:47Speaker 03

  Are you psychotic?

• 3:48Griffin Newman?

  The wavelength that Sean and I, yes. The answer is yes. The wavelength that Sean and I share. Ben text us this morning and said, this movie, let me find the exact quote. I believe it was this movie is anti-smile. Anti-smile.

• 4:00Speaker 03

  It sure is.

• 4:02Griffin Newman?

  Which is true.

• 4:03Speaker 02

  I, I thought of this when you were describing the tagline. If the poster featured Harrison Ford smiling, rather than that bemused kind of half grimace. Would the movie have been a hit?

• 4:16Griffin Newman?

  No, no, there's no world where this movie is a hit.

• 4:19Speaker 02

  If there was more, like the wry sarcastic charm.

• 4:23Griffin Newman?

  It would have, if we're just talking poster and the movie hasn't changed. Maybe it makes a little bit more funny. It would have opened better and people would have been angry.

• 4:29Speaker 03

  If there were X's over his eyes, so we know from the start that this motherfucker dies.

• 4:34Speaker 02

  Whoa! It's, we're what, three minutes in? We spoiled the film.

• 4:39Griffin Newman?

  Um, goddamn.

• 4:41Speaker 02

  What are we gonna do?

• 4:41Griffin Newman?

  Ben's quote, our, our finest film critic, Ben Hosley. Goddamn this movie, a nasty bastard.

• 4:48David Sims?

  It's true.

• 4:49Griffin Newman?

  And David said, it's not a feel good film.

• 4:52David Sims?

  No.

• 4:52Griffin Newman?

  Maybe don't move to the mosquito coast. And Ben texted, it's anti-smile. I truly would never, not even for Harrison Ford. Now, my opinion is.

• 5:02David Sims?

  That doesn't make it any less true a film, Ben.

• 5:04Griffin Newman?

  There are so many articles from the release of this film that are fascinating, where they're like notoriously press shy. Harrison Ford has pounded the pavement for this movie.

• 5:15David Sims?

  He knows this one needs selling.

• 5:16Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 5:17David Sims?

  Yeah, this is an exactly like, we go to the coast and you'll have to find out what happens next.

• 5:22Speaker 02

  And it's Leo during one battle.

• 5:23Griffin Newman?

  And he didn't want to like, whoa, why is Leo doing TikTok videos?

• 5:27David Sims?

  Why is Leo on the big picture, slumming it?

• 5:30Griffin Newman?

  He didn't want to missell it. He didn't want to trick people, but he was like, this is a tougher film. I'm hoping I built up the credibility with my audiences. And then when the movie comes out and he's like, critics savaged it. And he felt betrayed by the critics.

• 5:44David Sims?

  Yeah, he was, he was mad that it didn't get a fair shake from them. He was like, I thought you guys might at least get it.

• 5:50Griffin Newman?

  And that he felt like they were saying like, I'm not buying Han Solo doing this. And he was like, this is a movie that needed you and it's a challenging movie. And you're all going like, how dare he try this? But the interesting fact when they're talking about, at the time, they said it was the only movie he made that didn't make back its money.

• 6:09David Sims?

  He says that, yes.

• 6:10Griffin Newman?

  He says that.

• 6:10David Sims?

  Which means it must've like, right, not even succeeded on home video or whatever.

• 6:15Griffin Newman?

  Even by the mid 90s, he still says, it is the only movie I starred in that didn't make back.

• 6:20David Sims?

  Cause it's not like frantic was, you know, cleaning up.

• 6:22Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 6:23David Sims?

  Like, but it did pretty good business.

• 6:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 6:25Speaker 02

  It was just much more conventional.

• 6:26David Sims?

  It's more of a thriller, straightforward thriller.

• 6:27Griffin Newman?

  And he's going out there and he's defending it. And in this article from the Hollywood Reporter, they say that it got a B minus cinema score. So you're like, it's not like the people who saw it hated it as much as no one wanted to see it.

• 6:40David Sims?

  A B minus cinema score is really bad. That's bad, bad.

• 6:44Griffin Newman?

  It's not, I'm not saying it's good, but I'm saying if you put a smiling Harrison Ford face on the poster, this movie gets F.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  Should we do the 1986 episode of The Big Picture where the mosquito coast has just come out? And it's got made 1.8 million dollars and it's got a B minus.

• 6:58Griffin Newman?

  You're piraling.

• 6:59Speaker 02

  And we're like, god damn it. This is why we can't have nice things. No original storytelling, no literate adaptations of thoughtful men exploring the world.

• 7:07Griffin Newman?

  I think it's not even that, Sean. I think it's you in your quiet focused mode going, I just need to accept that VHS has arrived and cinema is not what it used to be.

• 7:16Speaker 02

  Uh, so depressing.

• 7:18David Sims?

  Well, I just want to shout out, um, well, what's our podcast? Who's our guest? And then I want to say something.

• 7:23Griffin Newman?

  This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

• 7:25David Sims?

  I'm David.

• 7:26Griffin Newman?

  It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they use the checks to buy a town and rebuild civilization from scratch.

• 7:41David Sims?

  And try to make an ice machine.

• 7:43Griffin Newman?

  Good.

• 7:43David Sims?

  The size of a like house.

• 7:45Griffin Newman?

  Ideas.

• 7:47David Sims?

  In the jungle?

• 7:48Griffin Newman?

  Good ideas. This is a mini series on the films of Peter.

• 7:52David Sims?

  And then when a militia shows up, they're like, it's okay, I'll trick them.

• 7:58David Sims?

  It's like, hmm, I bet these guys are afraid of ants.

• 8:00Griffin Newman?

  Ali Fox did nothing.

• 8:02David Sims?

  Oh, wait a second.

• 8:03Griffin Newman?

  To be clear, to be clear, what I love about this movie is not that.

• 8:06David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 8:06Griffin Newman?

  What I love about this movie is that Ali Fox is one of the most fundamentally broken protagonists I have.

• 8:11David Sims?

  You might get it because it's a peer into the soul, not because you're like taking notes.

• 8:15Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  Although I want to explore. If there's any goodness in his ideas.

• 8:21Griffin Newman?

  It's a, it's a, it's a question.

• 8:23David Sims?

  It's more like, what's the temptation, I guess, right? Like, well, yeah, like the temptation of the goodness.

• 8:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, obviously.

• 8:29David Sims?

  Like, what is there?

• 8:29Speaker 02

  Ego maniac narcissist, but.

• 8:33Griffin Newman?

  I think.

• 8:33Speaker 02

  Getting older, couple, a couple of things, a couple of things are sparking.

• 8:37Griffin Newman?

  I kind of feel like his analysis is correct and all of his actions were wrong, if that makes sense.

• 8:43Speaker 02

  Well, uh.

• 8:45Griffin Newman?

  Maybe I'm, I'm painting too broad a brain.

• 8:47Speaker 02

  Is it too soon to go to this place?

• 8:49David Sims?

  It's too soon to go to this place.

• 8:50Griffin Newman?

  We're gonna get there. I promise you, we're gonna get there. David, what did you want to say? This is a mini series on the films of Peter Weir. It's called Podnik at Hanging Cast.

• 9:00David Sims?

  Yes, I didn't know that.

• 9:01Griffin Newman?

  Today we were talking about, what is his first proper Blank Check movie? Certainly his first Hollywood Blank Check.

• 9:06David Sims?

  Sure.

• 9:07Griffin Newman?

  The success of Witness is immediately rolled into. I'm tying myself to Harrison Ford.

• 9:13David Sims?

  It's the

• 9:14Griffin Newman?

  The passion project I couldn't get made right before Witness.

• 9:16David Sims?

  Well, that's it.

• 9:17Griffin Newman?

  I can now get made.

• 9:18David Sims?

  Success of Witness, movie star, plus the, you know, building credibility of his Australian films, which had almost gotten the movie made before, all put together to make a very tough movie about an unlikable person doing something largely negative and unsuccessful, I guess. And the movie ends with like, yeah, that didn't work out, you know, like, which is, yeah, not something you can easily pitch in a boardroom.

• 9:45Griffin Newman?

  What did you want to say?

• 9:47David Sims?

  Uh, Sean Fantasy is our guest.

• 9:48Griffin Newman?

  The great Sean Fantasy from the big picture.

• 9:50David Sims?

  And

• 9:51Griffin Newman?

  Our friend, excuse me.

• 9:53David Sims?

  I know, but I'm, I'm

• 9:54Speaker 02

  I'm so happy to be here for Podnik. Podnik, that's good.

• 9:59Griffin Newman?

  Now, I wanted Podster and Cast Mander, the pod side of the cast.

• 10:02David Sims?

  How many times are you gonna bring this up?

• 10:04Griffin Newman?

  Every episode, basically.

• 10:06David Sims?

  Well,

• 10:06Griffin Newman?

  And David said Podnik is the funniest word I've ever heard.

• 10:09Speaker 02

  Which I think is funny. Well, that explains it. It is. However, I do think there was a case for Podless.

• 10:14David Sims?

  Yeah, but you see, this is, there's a, there's a, to me, a fine balance between too short, which what you're doing, and kind of like, the joke is just the length.

• 10:22Griffin Newman?

  I said, let's go as hard as we can. We're rarely gonna get an opportunity to put in two pods and two casts.

• 10:28David Sims?

  I don't like it. I think it doesn't roll off any tongues. I also don't like that Master and Commander has a subtitle. I think that's a huge mistake.

• 10:35Speaker 02

  What about

• 10:36David Sims?

  In that movie.

• 10:36Griffin Newman?

  Well, they're building a

• 10:37Speaker 02

  Pods have become battlefields?

• 10:39David Sims?

  Yeah, but then, okay, well, now we're just throwing rules out the window.

• 10:42Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 10:42David Sims?

  You know, that's right. We can say that.

• 10:44Speaker 02

  That's what it was at the live show. It was, it was blank check in the big picture.

• 10:48Griffin Newman?

  It was.

• 10:48Speaker 02

  And we were on the, the pod battlefield.

• 10:50David Sims?

  We were in the best. So, okay, so that's what I wanted to talk about.

• 10:52Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 10:52David Sims?

  Uh, we did a live show with you guys, where we did a draft.

• 10:55Griffin Newman?

  By the time this comes out.

• 10:56David Sims?

  Right, but it, it, you can watch it.

• 10:58Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 10:58David Sims?

  And we did a draft and we wisely did New York movies and played to the crowd, all that. But if the initial plan, before it was gonna be a live show.

• 11:05Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 11:06David Sims?

  Had been that we were gonna do 1986 films.

• 11:08Griffin Newman?

  In studio 86. Oh, interesting.

• 11:11David Sims?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 11:12Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 11:13David Sims?

  And that's my birth year, but it was also basically like one of the, one of the, like, uh, available years.

• 11:18Speaker 02

  One of the last ones.

• 11:19David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 11:19Speaker 02

  One of the last big ones that we haven't done yet.

• 11:21David Sims?

  And so I was like, hell yeah, 1986. I think I watched 30 movies from 1986.

• 11:26Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 11:27David Sims?

  Like to prepare for this draft that did not happen. Now, now we may do it eventually.

• 11:30Griffin Newman?

  We had a New York idea and you got upset because you said I've already been grinding.

• 11:34David Sims?

  So deep in 1986.

• 11:36Speaker 02

  We planned to do, I would, I would love to do a draft.

• 11:38David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 11:39Speaker 02

  Every year for as long as we possibly can.

• 11:41David Sims?

  I love the year drafts because I like the scarcity. Like I find that the best format because like in terms of the gamesmanship, it's the most interesting. New York drafts is the opposite sort of gamesmanship where it's like pick of the litter. There's a million movies. What route do you take? Right? Like I would say.

• 11:57Speaker 02

  But 86 was going to be recorded and New York was always going to be live. So I said, you guys want to come do the live show? But you're right. 86 is, is a really fun year.

• 12:05David Sims?

  And when does mosquito?

• 12:06Speaker 02

  Would mosquito go in 86?

• 12:08David Sims?

  I think it might go, but it would be a later.

• 12:10Griffin Newman?

  Would you draft it in drama?

• 12:12David Sims?

  Well, it ain't a comedy.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  I haven't prepared for 86. I, I.

• 12:15Griffin Newman?

  I guess no spoilers for future drafts.

• 12:17David Sims?

  No comedy, no Oscar wins, not a blockbuster. So yeah, it's only a couple of spots it goes. I mean, you could sort of call it a thriller, but it's a kind of a.

• 12:27Griffin Newman?

  Wild card, or if you did an attempt at rebuilding civilization from scratch category, I think it would definitely go there.

• 12:35Speaker 02

  I, I, I might draft it. It's, it's very possible. I, I have a lot of affection for this movie.

• 12:40David Sims?

  I feel like this is a Sean movie. Not that it's not anyone else's movie, but it's definitely a Sean movie.

• 12:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's not, it is deeply imperfect and Ben, I understand. I, I understand exactly what you mean. It is an anti-smile movie. I love, I love an anti-smile movie. I love a movie that is essentially a confrontation with something that is under the surface of human existence, which is we are fucked. We are so fucked.

• 13:05Griffin Newman?

  Sure. So with you here.

• 13:06Speaker 03

  But this movie makes me want to punch it in the face.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  I think it kind of wants that, right? I think, I think it does want that. And what, what the author of this book, how he feels about Ali Fox too, I think is an interesting part of this. And why the filmmaker is interested, why Ford famously a curmudgeon with a, with a bit of a down look on society, the world, his own success is all really fat. All these smart, thoughtful guys arriving at this project.

• 13:35Speaker 02

  Is interesting to me.

• 13:36Griffin Newman?

  It's very interesting. Ben, you often say when we cover movies in which someone finds a bag full of money and their life spirals out of control. Like many of the Coen films we've covered recently, that if you were in that movie, everything would turn out great and it would end with you owning an island. Now, how do you think you would have handled the circumstances of Mosquito Coast? I know they're different because you're not given the money in the first place, but, but the design is almost the same.

• 14:04Speaker 03

  It would burn down immediately. The town would be, would be burnt in hours.

• 14:09David Sims?

  You're not municipal. Like, it's like, that's not your, your direction.

• 14:13Griffin Newman?

  If you were in Mosquito Coast, things would have gone worse.

• 14:15Speaker 03

  Yes, I would smoke one cigarette and then it would, the town would just go up in flames. And then it'd be like, all right, let's get out of here.

• 14:23David Sims?

  But you're also, you're not an ideologue. Like if you meet Spalding Gray, I mean, not Spalding, Andre Gregory, not Spalding Gray. Uh, Spalding Gray is another movie I watched recently for Sean's podcast.

• 14:32Griffin Newman?

  Killing Fields. Or no, different.

• 14:34Speaker 03

  Well, he is in The Killing Fields.

• 14:35David Sims?

  But no, Spalding Gray is in Stars and Bars, the forgotten Daniel Day-Lewis film.

• 14:39Griffin Newman?

  Oh, wild.

• 14:40Speaker 02

  His only pure comedy.

• 14:42David Sims?

  Yeah, given a performance I might describe as a touch broad.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  Uh, fair to say.

• 14:46David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 14:47Speaker 02

  He's a horny, southern judge.

• 14:52Speaker 02

  Classic Spalding Gray typecasting.

• 14:54David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 14:54Speaker 03

  While Daniel Day-Lewis is like, oh, oh, oh, like that's his whole performance.

• 15:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it is Daniel Day-Lewis trying to be Hugh Grant in, what, I don't even know what the, in My Cousin Vinny? Like, that's essentially the, that's the framework?

• 15:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:09Griffin Newman?

  And then Hugh Grant said, "Pull my logger" and made Mickey Blue Eyes himself.

• 15:14David Sims?

  It does feel like, but Daniel Day-Lewis does Stars and Bars, is probably like, ah, it didn't work. And then sees Hugh Grant's early and is like, right, that's not, that's not a string to my bow. Right. He, he's got it. Anyway, uh, yeah, you would meet Andre Gregory, the priest, and you'd be like, yeah, you seem like you can run things like.

• 15:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:34David Sims?

  I don't want to be in charge here. Like, right? Like, yeah, you've got some ideas.

• 15:38Speaker 03

  I feel like you, this is a thing that's been replicated before in other places.

• 15:43David Sims?

  Whereas Ally is like, no.

• 15:46Speaker 03

  Go off.

• 15:47David Sims?

  But then you are a false god. You know, like Ally just sees like, he sees like a stop sign and he's like, I won't stop. Like, that's just his vibe.

• 15:55Speaker 02

  This country used to go. Stein can't run my life. Ben, would you kneel before God, though?

• 16:02Speaker 03

  No.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  I mean, God used to kneel before America.

• 16:06Speaker 03

  I am, I am not religious at all.

• 16:09Speaker 02

  Cause that's what Andre Gregory wants, right? He wants you to bend the knee to him and to, and to.

• 16:13David Sims?

  I know, I just feel like Ben just wouldn't have the where, like the sort of energy to be like, nah, fuck you, man.

• 16:20Griffin Newman?

  You wouldn't get as riled up, I feel like.

• 16:22Speaker 03

  You know, I guess, I mean, you're making a great point. I find the missionary practice problematic.

• 16:29Griffin Newman?

  You get quite a history there.

• 16:31Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 16:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 16:32Speaker 03

  Of problematic.

• 16:34Speaker 02

  More of a reverse cowgirl kinda guy.

• 16:35Griffin Newman?

  But I, yeah. Ben, I feel like you get very.

• 16:38Speaker 03

  I really like that, actually. We need to call that out.

• 16:42Griffin Newman?

  That's very, that's a, hey, 100 comedy.

• 16:43Speaker 02

  Social breakout, yeah.

• 16:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:45Griffin Newman?

  You get riled up, Ben, when people disrespect you.

• 16:49Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 16:49Griffin Newman?

  And you get riled, you get riled up when you come up against like injustice.

• 16:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:55Griffin Newman?

  But I feel like if someone is arguing ideological points with you in this way, you're just like, I don't have fucking time for this.

• 17:01Speaker 03

  If I'm in the jungle and I'm sweating and getting bit by mosquitoes, I think I'm also just gonna be like, I can't deal with this.

• 17:08Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 17:08Speaker 02

  That, that's the thing with this movie is, is I'm not going to the jungle. I will never go to the jungle.

• 17:12Griffin Newman?

  Ever, ever.

• 17:12Speaker 02

  There's no way.

• 17:13David Sims?

  It's not a climate that appeals. No mosquito coast, I'm not, the penguin coast, maybe.

• 17:19Griffin Newman?

  I mean, as you put it right there in the title, you're identifying my least favorite kind of insect.

• 17:25David Sims?

  I don't like mosquitoes.

• 17:26Griffin Newman?

  Living creature on the planet?

• 17:28David Sims?

  Quite possibly.

• 17:28Griffin Newman?

  I hate mosquitoes too.

• 17:30Speaker 02

  They love me too, it's the worst.

• 17:32Griffin Newman?

  They love me. And you know why, Sean? Cause you're so sweet.

• 17:35Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 17:36Griffin Newman?

  But so, yes. Isn't it always gross when gross would say that? When you like complain about being bit and they'd be like, that's cause you're so sweet.

• 17:43Speaker 02

  You honestly made me feel gross.

• 17:44Griffin Newman?

  It's disgusting.

• 17:45David Sims?

  Or they're like, yeah, you taste good. Like, shut up. 1986, I just have considered 1986, uh, in more depth than like other years recently because of this. And you're talking about Harrison Ford, major movie star. I do think he might be inarguably the biggest movie star.

• 18:02Griffin Newman?

  At the year this comes out.

• 18:03David Sims?

  Because.

• 18:05David Sims?

  The sort of, you know, Stallone's moment is waning.

• 18:08Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 18:09David Sims?

  Schwarzenegger's moment has not like totally solidified.

• 18:13Griffin Newman?

  Willis is in, uh, before.

• 18:16David Sims?

  We haven't got to Willis yet.

• 18:17Griffin Newman?

  Cruise.

• 18:18David Sims?

  Eddie Murphy is curdling slightly. Cruise is just beginning with Top Gun is this year.

• 18:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 18:24David Sims?

  Like, so like Cruise is on.

• 18:25Griffin Newman?

  I think at this.

• 18:25Speaker 02

  I would argue it's not close.

• 18:27David Sims?

  It's not.

• 18:27Griffin Newman?

  At this moment, it's inarguable him.

• 18:29David Sims?

  And this is a movie where, what were the top three movies of 1986? Top Gun, so Cruise is again, beginning, um, Platoon, which wins this picture and Crocodile Dundee. Crocodile Dundee doing this well is kind of a like, we don't have any stars right now.

• 18:43Griffin Newman?

  Is this guy one of our biggest stars?

• 18:45David Sims?

  Yeah, it's like, maybe, maybe we throw in with Crock?

• 18:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  Two things happened in the eighties for him. One, obviously you've got two Star Wars movies, two Indiana Jones films, right? He has locked down that specific thing, but I think Witness is the clincher.

• 18:58Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say.

• 18:59Speaker 02

  Totally is the movie.

• 19:00Griffin Newman?

  That's the thing.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  And we talked about. Confirms this.

• 19:02Griffin Newman?

  That's the thing. It's him having two franchises under his belt and then being taken seriously as an actor. And his serious adult drama playing, if not like a blockbuster, surely being a hit. It's, it's kind of like, it's that moment that happened with like Jennifer Lawrence. Where you're like, she has Silver Linings Playbook and the first Hunger Games in the same year. You're telling me she's unstoppable.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  It's a really good comparison and he, I think is doing something in this next stretch of movies. That is pretty admirable that great stars do where they, they get passion projects, interesting filmmakers. They bounce, they bounce between genres, you know, his next few movies, Mosquito Coast, frantic working girl, goes back for Last Crusade. And then presumed innocent regarding Henry. That's a really interesting run of movies. Not all of them work.

• 19:47David Sims?

  No.

• 19:47Speaker 02

  But there.

• 19:48David Sims?

  Only one of them to me does not work.

• 19:50Speaker 02

  Regarding Henry?

• 19:51David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 19:51Speaker 02

  But I love that movie. It's bad, but I do love it. Written of course by Jeffrey Abrams.

• 19:56Griffin Newman?

  JJ, uh, Lil JJ. Um, he, I saw some interview with him where he said that he really likes working with directors two times. That he feels like to a certain degree, making a movie with someone he's never worked with before is to test out whether they can do a second one. Not that the first one's a wash, but that he likes being able to hit the ground running and have that built in language. And a lot of what you're talking about there, it's like two Weers, two Nichols, one Polanski. You know, he obviously does three Spielberg's.

• 20:26Speaker 02

  Two Pollocks.

• 20:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, like he would double up on people. And all of these are, you know, once you get past Spielberg and Lucas, they're like grown up directors. They are serious, grown up directors.

• 20:40Speaker 02

  Philip Noyce.

• 20:41Griffin Newman?

  Noyce too.

• 20:42David Sims?

  His nineties, it's not like his stardom wanes and he makes hits.

• 20:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 20:47David Sims?

  But the movies get worse.

• 20:49Griffin Newman?

  And he has.

• 20:49David Sims?

  A lot of bad movies.

• 20:50Griffin Newman?

  He has a couple.

• 20:51Speaker 02

  The second half of the nineties is a bit of it's, it's a steep fall.

• 20:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. But I also, the second half of the nineties, the Star Wars movies get re-released and like Han Solo is renewed. Like even as the movies are falling off, his stardom is almost more solidified, at least in terms of like Hall of Fame iconography. I also, there's, there's an interview, maybe it's for Return of the Jedi or Empire Strikes Back, I think. Where it's, they're interviewing the three stars and they ask them what your first feeling was when Star Wars hit, right? And you know, Hamill has some gee whiz like, I can't believe it. I grew up watching these movies. I'm a star now. There are people around the block. And they ask Ford and he just rubs his hands together and goes, let's get to work.

• 21:37Griffin Newman?

  And they were like, what do you mean? And he was like, I was like 37. It hadn't happened. It happened overnight. I said, this is my moment. You know, and he's got Star Wars movies lined up. He's gonna get Indiana Jones lined up. But this run we're talking about, the start of it feels like him cashing in. What he saw in his eye, the moment Star Wars hits is like, so you're telling me I can get movies made now? I know exactly what kind of movies I want to make. I know who I want to work with. I know which characters I want to play. It got delayed a little bit in him having to fulfill sequel obligations. But like this eighties run is let's get to work.

• 22:14Speaker 02

  One of the things that I like about this movie from this kind of meta textual perspective that we're talking about it from is that it reveals that when you are a movie star, you are still in a cage. In all of his films, he is either desirable. Heroic or wrongfully imperiled, except for this movie. This is the one movie where he's just kind of a heel. He's just, he's, he's wrong. Everyone knows he's wrong.

• 22:40David Sims?

  He's wrong from the start, too. It's not, yes, it's about a descent into madness, but he's basically no good from the beginning.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  Yes, and we are meant to follow him closely and be engaged with his journey. Like Helen Mirren, you know, well, I'm sure we'll talk about it.

• 22:54Griffin Newman?

  She's not have a ton to do.

• 22:55Speaker 02

  She does nothing to do in the movie.

• 22:55Griffin Newman?

  No, it's, it's him and it's Phoenix are the two perspective characters. We, we covered Robert Zemeckis's What Lies Beneath many years ago now. And that movie, the juice of that movie was you're going to go into this so confident that there's no way Harrison Ford could be the bad guy. And when he turns out to be like epically, you know, absurdly villainous. That movie like electrified people and it was a massive, massive hit.

• 23:23Speaker 02

  And it's a last five minutes reveal.

• 23:25Griffin Newman?

  Totally. And that was like, you can't get away with this, but that's like a funhouse movie that can have that construction be entertaining to people. This feels like a movie where the public's response to it was, I'm confused. Am I supposed to be rooting for this guy? Because it's Harrison Ford that rather than saying like, oh, it's interesting that he's playing a guy I don't like. People were confused where they were supposed to line up. And I think part of that trickiness, what makes him so good in this role? But what must have just absolutely befuddled everyone is so much of Harrison Ford's thing at this time is I seem like an asshole, but I actually care.

• 24:02Speaker 02

  See that's, okay. So that's the thing that I also think is really interesting about the movie. I don't know Harrison Ford personally. I've certainly seen him on talk shows and in interviews. I don't think he has the same ideas as Allie Fox. I do think he's not that far temperamentally from Allie Fox.

• 24:18David Sims?

  He has a slightly antisocial vibe. He likes to fly plane and live in ranch.

• 24:24Griffin Newman?

  And crash plane.

• 24:25David Sims?

  And crash plane and smoke mountains of ganja, which I don't think Ally is doing that, but like.

• 24:30Speaker 02

  He could use it.

• 24:31David Sims?

  There's a world where Ally should be doing that. Exactly.

• 24:33Speaker 02

  Like that should maybe be his vibe.

• 24:35David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 24:35Speaker 02

  He's got, he's an inventor for fuck's sake. He's the most weed dad ever.

• 24:39Griffin Newman?

  Man, I heard a story from a, a film production driver. I forget what movie it was on, but who had to pick up Harrison Ford every day? And said, one day he was late coming out the house and he was like, I can't find my bong. Give me five minutes. And then he came out five minutes later with a saucepan.

• 24:58Griffin Newman?

  And he was like, what are you doing? He's like, hold on. And he took the lid off the saucepan. He sucked up the smoke.

• 25:04David Sims?

  That's, that's awesome.

• 25:06Griffin Newman?

  But he was just like, you don't understand how much weed that guy is taking in a day.

• 25:11David Sims?

  Well, you certainly hear, then there's these moments with him now, like there's the famous David Blaine video where you see kind of like, cause he's always, he's a good crank on, like he's a good crank on a publicity tour and all that. And he enjoys it and he's very funny. The thing where Josh Horowitz, right? Is it Josh? Yeah. He's asking about Red Hulk, our president.

• 25:32Griffin Newman?

  Our president, nothing but respect.

• 25:33David Sims?

  Yep. Uh, you know, about like, do you feel silly? And he's like, the money, you know, it's gone. Like I watched.

• 25:40Griffin Newman?

  The Flansky bits.

• 25:41David Sims?

  Yes. I watched, have you ever seen, I assume you've seen the video of Alison Hammond interviewing him for Blade Runner 2049, where she's, he's with Gosling and you can tell it's like early morning in London. He's doing fucking junket shit. He's not interested. And she's so like delightful and funny and silly. And you watch him wake up and be like, wow, I like this woman. You know, the moment where she, she says, so, you know, when you wanted, when you offered this movie, what do you think? How much? And he goes like, show me the money. And you're just like, there he is. He's a silly guy.

• 26:14Griffin Newman?

  It is, I think now he plays into it as a bit. And I, you look back at all this press, I was doing for Mosquito Coast, talks about how press shy he is, how private he is. And then you watch the actual interviews and he is measured. He's open. He is so fucking articulate. He's not like doing some De Niro like mumble thing, but he's not doing like movie star razzle dazzle. He's speaking as if he's like Gore Vidal. Like he's speaking in this very measured thoughtful way. And I think that confused people. And it was received as he's cold because he's not smiling and telling stories about pranks. And now he realized, I can just lean into being a crank and people find it funny.

• 26:56Griffin Newman?

  My favorite forward interview moment ever. It's after Disney acquires Lucasfilm.

• 27:02Griffin Newman?

  And you know, part of the announcement is Disney buys Lucasfilm episode seven.

• 27:07Speaker 02

  Right, yeah.

• 27:08Griffin Newman?

  And he goes on Conan to promote whatever movie he had coming out like a month or two after that.

• 27:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:12Griffin Newman?

  And he says, so there was

• 27:13Speaker 02

  Cowboys and Aliens.

• 27:14Griffin Newman?

  Big news recently, Disney purchased Star Wars and Harrison Ford like looks over his shoulder like plays like, am I allowed to say anything? You know, KG and he's like, now I'm sure you're being told not to say anything, but just to incentivize you. And then Conan takes out like a thousand dollars in cash, hands him like $100 bills. And he's like, does this make you want to say anything? And Harrison Ford like grabs the money quickly, counts it, shoves it in the inside of his jacket pocket. And then like casually leans into his chair and goes, I uh, I hear they're thinking about making another one.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  That is really good.

• 27:58Griffin Newman?

  Destroyed. The audience laughs for a minute straight. And the fact that he can now lean into, I'm a grump, I hate everything and I love making money. And that no one thinks he's an asshole, that it's like, it scores him brownie points is great.

• 28:11Speaker 02

  He earned it. I mean, he's freaking Harrison Ford. He's, he's in 20 movies. They're, God, I love this movie.

• 28:16Griffin Newman?

  But that's

• 28:17Speaker 02

  Like that's a, that's a great way to be.

• 28:19Griffin Newman?

  But this has always been the thing of people saying like, oh, he's no nonsense. He's this and that. And then everyone who works with him is like, he cares about acting so much. He cares about the movie so much. It's all this cover. It's what makes him a star with fucking Han Solo is the moment he comes back.

• 28:33Speaker 02

  I think he's also just a, he's a gifted actor, probably an underrated actor. Didn't really get a lot of opportunity, wasn't challenged a lot because of the work that he was best known for. But a very shrewd movie star, a good picker of projects.

• 28:46David Sims?

  By and large, until that late 90s.

• 28:48Speaker 02

  It dips, it dips for everybody.

• 28:49David Sims?

  The classic late 90s, it's the classic movie star thing of like Harrison, you're getting older. You don't automatically match up with your female leads anymore. Like, you know, it's like, where do you go with this? And then stuff like Random Hearts is him being like, well, Pollock and

• 29:04Speaker 02

  So I just saw that for the first time last year.

• 29:07David Sims?

  Right, your favorite movie of all time.

• 29:08Speaker 02

  And I had, I had a nice time with it.

• 29:10David Sims?

  Sure.

• 29:10Speaker 02

  And because it is largely representative of the canard that I'm all, all of us say all the time about they don't make them like they used to. But they really don't make them like that movie. That movie is a very strange, morose drama about two sad people.

• 29:24David Sims?

  I mean, the heart

• 29:25Speaker 02

  That still costs like

• 29:26David Sims?

  Sixty million dollars. See, and the heart's a random.

• 29:28Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say.

• 29:28David Sims?

  They're so random. It's, it's random as hell.

• 29:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 29:31David Sims?

  And it's not, not a very good film.

• 29:33Griffin Newman?

  Movie is pretty random.

• 29:35David Sims?

  It's actually a big inspiration for Family Guy.

• 29:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. People forget the giant chicken is like third build in Random Heart.

• 29:42David Sims?

  Actually, third build is Charles S. Dutton. This movie sounds pretty good. Carry on. You haven't seen it?

• 29:45Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 29:46David Sims?

  I know the twist. It's fine, or whatever.

• 29:48Griffin Newman?

  That's the least interesting part of it. He's just a sad cop for two hours, wandering around New York, trying to figure out what he should do with his life. And it's a, it's like a real test of his late period stardom and he couldn't really hold on to it. You know, six days and seven nights, like these movies where he's, he's trying to touch all the different strains. He's trying to like, oh, maybe, can I working girl it again? You know, can I Indiana Jones it again? Can I Jack Ryan it again? And he can't, you know, he's, that moment has passed.

• 30:15David Sims?

  There's a run that, cause Fugitive is obviously like the best movie ever made. And then after that, it's like, he did Clear and Present Danger, does well.

• 30:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 30:24David Sims?

  Not a bad movie, but then it's like Sabrina, mistake. Devil's Own, mistake.

• 30:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 30:30David Sims?

  Air Force One, not a mistake. Great idea. Everyone loved.

• 30:34Griffin Newman?

  It is so funny that in this movie, he has a moment where he says, get off my land.

• 30:39David Sims?

  Mosquito coat.

• 30:40Griffin Newman?

  He said, get off my land.

• 30:41David Sims?

  I know, I know, I know. Six Days, Seven Nights, mistake. Random Heart's mistake. What Lies Beneath, good pick, but he's, you know, he's sort of secretly supporting.

• 30:50Griffin Newman?

  Big hit, though.

• 30:51David Sims?

  Big hit.

• 30:51Griffin Newman?

  Huge hit.

• 30:52David Sims?

  K-19, The Widowmaker, mistake. Hollywood homicide, mistake. And that's when he finally clocks, it's like, what am I, I'm two for 10 here?

• 31:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 31:01David Sims?

  I think I'm gonna stop being a leading man.

• 31:03Griffin Newman?

  Beyond that, Hollywood homicide is the first time I think he looks embarrassing.

• 31:08David Sims?

  Right. He's like, what the fuck am I doing?

• 31:09Griffin Newman?

  It's not just that the movie flops, it's that it's like, this looks silly. Why did you do this? What's with the earring? You're dating Ally McBeal. Like everything about it, suddenly it was like, is Harrison Ford like lame dad having midlife crisis?

• 31:23David Sims?

  Yes.

• 31:24Griffin Newman?

  He lost his cool.

• 31:25David Sims?

  And then firewall is forgotten, but is this transit moment to like, he's more playing dad, older generation. And then like, it's like, from then on, he is grandpa. Crystal Skull, you know, Morning Glory, Cowboys, right? It's like now he's the old guy.

• 31:44Griffin Newman?

  It's grandpa, but the other part of it is I'm gonna do Blade Runner again. I'm gonna do two more starters. I'm gonna do two more Indiana Joneses, but Crystal Skull starts there.

• 31:51David Sims?

  Yeah, but then it's like extraordinary measures, Morning Glory, Cowboys and Aliens 42 enders game. You know, like, it's like, it takes him a while.

• 32:00Griffin Newman?

  Also.

• 32:00David Sims?

  I think Force Awakens is when he's like, fine.

• 32:03Griffin Newman?

  A lot of him being number two on the poster behind a newer.

• 32:07David Sims?

  Daniel Craig, uh, fucking, of course, Brendan Fraser and his.

• 32:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 32:12David Sims?

  So powerful.

• 32:13Griffin Newman?

  Just like weird choices.

• 32:15David Sims?

  Um, yeah.

• 32:16Griffin Newman?

  I mean, I remember I I've invoked this so many times, but it's just such a distinct memory in my broken brain.

• 32:21David Sims?

  Asa Butterfield and me, the big two.

• 32:24Speaker 03

  I think he's the future.

• 32:26Griffin Newman?

  My dad and I walking by a billboard for Random Hearts and my dad just going, that's gonna be a big hit. And I was like, why? And he went, cause Harrison Ford's in it. And I was like, that's how it works, like certain stars, no matter what they do. And yet that was a moment where it was like, it's proven wrong here. I I have invoked this before and one of the previous times we've talked about Harrison Ford, but his Inside the Actor Studio is amazing.

• 32:50David Sims?

  And I'm sure I've seen it. I can't remember.

• 32:52Griffin Newman?

  They get into Mosquito Coast and Lipton asks him the thing that people love to ask him of like, do you feel like you're stuck in a gilded cage? That your level of stardom and iconography and and the blockbusters have become so big that there's certain things the audience won't let you do as an actor. And he like is very measured about it. And he basically says like, I was very proud of that movie and it was something I wanted to do. And it was very clear that the audiences weren't gonna go with me there and I adjusted. And I'm never gonna complain about the fact that people like me doing other things in movies, right? Like he has an answer that's basically like, I have no sour grapes over this. I tried. I'm not gonna be an asshole about like, oh, they want me to be a different kind of A-list movie star.

• 33:36Griffin Newman?

  But it is clear that I think, and this is maybe where things start to fall apart a bit in the 90s, is post Mosquito Coast, he's like, got it, notes taken. I want to challenge myself, I want to push boundaries, but I've identified a thing you don't want me to do. And like, Working Girl is an interesting swing, but it's safer, right? Like, other things like that. I think by the time he gets to the mid 90s, he's like, I don't know what I'm trying to prove anymore. And it's too early for him to do the grandpa swing.

• 34:04Speaker 02

  Right.

• 34:04Griffin Newman?

  Where he can really shake off the shackles of his persona.

• 34:09Speaker 02

  We don't need to spend like, three hours on his last, his 90s movies, but I do think that Sabrina, The Devil's Own, Six Days, Seven Nights, Random Hearts are really instructive because they all do okay. Sabrina made 88, Devil's Own made 140, But It's Days and Seven Nights made 165, Random Hearts made 75.

• 34:28David Sims?

  Who directed Six Days, Seven Nights?

• 34:30Speaker 02

  Steven Reitman.

• 34:31David Sims?

  Reitman.

• 34:32Speaker 02

  And so, yeah.

• 34:32David Sims?

  Tupaculas.

• 34:33Speaker 02

  With the Tupaculas and the Tupolacs, it's kind of like this, kind of, right? You're going back to the guys who were 80s, you know, big shots and are now getting a little long in the tooth. But he is not able to, one, the material's not as good, right? So Witness probably makes a somewhat similar amount of money as those movies, relatively speaking, but it's not a forever movie the way that Witness is.

• 34:55Griffin Newman?

  No, and you compare the interviews for those films, the interviews for Witness, Mosquito Coast, Working Girl, what have you, where there does not seem to be the same animating passion of, this is what really spoke to me in this script and why I really wanted to play this character.

• 35:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 35:08Griffin Newman?

  They feel like, yeah, that's like, feels like good material.

• 35:10David Sims?

  An adult movie.

• 35:11Griffin Newman?

  Good lineup of people.

• 35:12Speaker 02

  Yes, my audience will respond to this.

• 35:24David Sims?

  David?

• 35:24Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 35:28David Sims?

  Is that the Cine's cow?

• 35:30Griffin Newman?

  The Cine's cow is back.

• 35:31David Sims?

  Haven't heard from her in a while.

• 35:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, she's reactivated because she's horny for chicken fingers.

• 35:37David Sims?

  Okay.

• 35:38Griffin Newman?

  And she's excited for the streaming debut of Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma.

• 35:42David Sims?

  Wow.

• 35:43Griffin Newman?

  The cow likes chicken.

• 35:45David Sims?

  Remember cow and chicken? Let's look it up while you tell the great listeners about the great stuff on movie.

• 35:52Griffin Newman?

  Well, MUBI is a global film company bringing great cinema to the world and to you. Curating and elevating visionary filmmaking, all handpicked, always. That's what MUBI does. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma.

• 36:03David Sims?

  Yes.

• 36:04Griffin Newman?

  One of my favorite movies of the year.

• 36:05David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 36:06Griffin Newman?

  You can feel the rush now at home. There's a hole at the bottom of the lake where the movies come from.

• 36:12David Sims?

  That is a line in the movie.

• 36:13Griffin Newman?

  In the new movie from Jane Schomburn, Past and Future Guest.

• 36:15David Sims?

  Past and Future Guest, a great filmmaker, a great podcast guest.

• 36:19Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 36:20David Sims?

  Great friend.

• 36:20Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 36:22David Sims?

  This movie rocks. It's got, of course, it stars Hannah Einbinder and Gillian Anderson.

• 36:26Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 36:27David Sims?

  Legends, and I tip my cap, but Zach Cherry.

• 36:29Griffin Newman?

  Performances, friend of the show.

• 36:30David Sims?

  Friend of the show Zach Cherry.

• 36:32Griffin Newman?

  Zach Cherry.

• 36:33David Sims?

  Also in it.

• 36:34Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 36:35David Sims?

  Such a cool movie. Won the Queer Palmitcan. If you haven't heard about this movie, I don't know what's going on with you, but like, it obviously has, it was out in theaters this summer and now it's on MUBI.

• 36:45Griffin Newman?

  Hannah Einbinder plays a filmmaker attempting to reboot the Camp Miasma franchise, trying to track down the original final girl from the first movie to make some sort of legacy sequel, who's played by Gillian Anderson, who lives at the summer camp.

• 36:59David Sims?

  At Camp Miasma, yes. And you know, and then they hang out and it's regular.

• 37:04Griffin Newman?

  What happened?

• 37:06Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's one of those Hollywood's out of ideas. No, it's very much a movie about Hollywood being out of ideas while being an example of there still being new stories to tell.

• 37:16David Sims?

  It's now streaming exclusively on MUBI and you can try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.com slash blank check. That's M U B I dot com slash blank check for a whole month of great cinema for free.

• 37:28Griffin Newman?

  They got so many great movies on there to watch, but worth it for 30 days for Miasma.

• 37:33David Sims?

  Damn right.

• 37:39Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 37:39David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 37:40Griffin Newman?

  It's not cuffing season for me, it's hosi season for me. And this year, that meant finally upgrading my new mattress from Lisa.

• 37:48David Sims?

  Lisa.

• 37:49Griffin Newman?

  It's supportive, comfortable, and just what my body needs after a long day. It makes crawling into bed on a chilly fall night feel like luxury.

• 37:56David Sims?

  Yeah, I have a Lisa too. They've got a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep.

• 38:02Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 38:03David Sims?

  Each mattress is designed with specific sleep positions and feel preferences in mind. They've got eco-friendly materials.

• 38:09Griffin Newman?

  Maybe you hear eco-friendly and you go, oh, but I'm gonna sacrifice comfort.

• 38:13David Sims?

  No.

• 38:13Griffin Newman?

  Nope.

• 38:14David Sims?

  They've been awarded best hybrid and best memory foam mattresses by New York Times' Wirecutter. They're featured by West Elm as their go-to mattress partner. And they work with local nonprofits across the US to donate thousands of mattresses each year to families in need. Over 43,000 mattresses donated to date. Go to leesa.com for up to 30% off mattresses. Plus, get an extra $50 off with promo code BLANKCHECK. Exclusive for our listeners. That's L-E-E-S-A.com, promo code BLANKCHECK for up to 30% off mattresses, plus an extra $50 off. Let them know we sent you in the survey after checkout. Lisa.com promo code BLANKCHECK.

• 39:01Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 39:02David Sims?

  Yes.

• 39:03Griffin Newman?

  Shop.com is giving away $1 million in Shop Cash.

• 39:07David Sims?

  Wow. Shop has all the stores you love and lets you track every order in one spot.

• 39:12Griffin Newman?

  I love that. It's very convenient.

• 39:13David Sims?

  And now, 1,000 shoppers are each gonna win $1,000 in Shop Cash, just in time for the holidays.

• 39:21Griffin Newman?

  You get gifts for everyone on your list, or get yourself something a little merry and bright. Find exactly what you're looking for at shop.com.

• 39:29David Sims?

  Uh, got stocking stuffers, maybe. The sickest luxury items.

• 39:34Griffin Newman?

  Cookware, kicks, toys to hike tech, even tinsel and tree toppers. Type in what you're looking for to instantly search every shop.

• 39:44David Sims?

  At once. Okay, that's shop.com. You can just go click around, find brands you love, search across all the stores, track every order in one spot.

• 39:53Griffin Newman?

  From cult favorites to the world's biggest brands, score suite deals and check out fast all at shop.com. Enter to win the $1 million shop cash giveaway from now until November 1st. Just go to shop.com. There are so many ways to win. That's shop.com. Shopping designed around you. No purchase necessary. Restrictions apply. Official rules available at shop.com.

• 40:26Griffin Newman?

  Here is a quote I found in that same piece where he is pleading audiences to consider the movie Mosquito Coast after being ransacked by critics. He says, "The job of acting is the same in every film regardless of the material. It's storytelling and logical steps. In a good script, it is fairly easy because you have ideas to chain yourself to. Otherwise, it's party tricks. There are few complications to the characters of Han Solo or Indiana Jones, but the demands of playing either of them are no less difficult than playing Fox. In many ways, a character with as much experience as Fox is allowed, is easier to play. You need only to note the variety of his emotions." That is one of the best descriptions of acting

• 41:08Griffin Newman?

  in an unpretentious way I have ever read. That is so like just fucking cut through the bullshit brass tacks. This is what it is. And explaining the two sides of what he can do well without putting greater importance on either. He's clearly very smart. He's smart. Knows who he is. So, and what he can do.

• 41:29David Sims?

  Well, I'm gonna open the dossier. But I think to me, I do think the big question with Mosquito Coast is, is Harrison Ford too sort of inherently Harrison 40 to play this guy? Like when you look upon-

• 41:41Griffin Newman?

  It's a William Hurt part. Right.

• 41:43David Sims?

  Like, you're kinda like, I'm not sure I believe that Harrison Ford would- Be so kind of like, you know, amoral or sort of, you know, unfeeling towards his family. Like, it's just like, he's Harrison Ford. Like, can he pull that off?

• 41:56Griffin Newman?

  I, I buy it, and I think that innate tension with his persona gives this movie an extra electricity for me.

• 42:03David Sims?

  Obviously, audiences and I guess critics, like, we're kind of like, I don't buy it, I guess.

• 42:07Speaker 02

  I think, I think he's just a really good angry actor.

• 42:10Griffin Newman?

  That's.

• 42:10Speaker 02

  And he has so many great moments of being angry, and this is a very angry character.

• 42:16Griffin Newman?

  And I.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  Get off my plane is an angry moment.

• 42:18Griffin Newman?

  I think it's playing with, you're watching him and going, this guy can't actually believe everything he's saying in that Han Solo way. Right? Surely at some point, if his children and his wife plead with him, he will break with this act. And I think that gives the movie a really interesting dramatic tension.

• 42:36David Sims?

  I agree.

• 42:37Griffin Newman?

  Do you know who we're originally wanted to?

• 42:39David Sims?

  Well, let's open the dossier. Let's open the dossier.

• 42:40Speaker 02

  Let's let David tell us, because these are the conventions of your podcast.

• 42:44Griffin Newman?

  Thank you.

• 42:45David Sims?

  Author Paul Thoreau.

• 42:46Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 42:47David Sims?

  Uncle of Justin.

• 42:48Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 42:48Speaker 02

  Indeed.

• 42:49David Sims?

  Who later played Ally in Apple TV Plus's The Mosquito Coast.

• 42:53Speaker 02

  I tried to watch this.

• 42:55David Sims?

  I didn't. I did, I did not.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  There are two seasons and 17 episodes?

• 42:59David Sims?

  This is my question. I'm like, this movie I think is good, but it's a tough hang at two hours long. Why on earth would I want this stretched to TV, right?

• 43:07Griffin Newman?

  David, I have a piece of news that's gonna make you slam your own head against the.

• 43:11David Sims?

  I, I will, go ahead.

• 43:13Griffin Newman?

  There is a quote, let me see if I can find it here, from.

• 43:16Speaker 02

  I thought you were gonna say season three coming soon.

• 43:18David Sims?

  Yeah, right.

• 43:20Speaker 02

  It was Neil Cross, the creator of the TV show, the guy who did Loofah.

• 43:23David Sims?

  Yes.

• 43:24Speaker 02

  And Tom Bissel was the co-writer of this series. He was a wonderful writer, right?

• 43:27Griffin Newman?

  In a 2023 interview with Deadline Hollywood, the original novel's author, Paul Thoreau, hoping for a third season that would segue into the events of his novel, praised the series. The two seasons that exist.

• 43:41David Sims?

  It's all set up, baby.

• 43:42Griffin Newman?

  We're all laying runway for what happens in the book and this movie.

• 43:46David Sims?

  But.

• 43:46Griffin Newman?

  The classic prestige TV thing of, we all know Mosquito Coast, right? What if it takes 50 hours to get to the starting point?

• 43:54David Sims?

  From my like, kind of glance at like what the episodes were, yes, I think like season one ends with them kinda getting to the mosquito.

• 44:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, but there's so much stuff in it. I mean, I was reading about it last night. That's like, there's a hitman who's after Ally and the like, the CIA is involved. It's just so.

• 44:09David Sims?

  Very exemplary of, you know, what went wrong on that side of.

• 44:13Speaker 02

  Yes. Give me a hundred random hearts instead of one, three.

• 44:19Griffin Newman?

  Could not agree more.

• 44:20David Sims?

  Um, but, uh, Paul Thoreau, uh, starts working on this manuscript, the book, uh, the novel was published in 1981. It is a time of, of course, uh, existential crisis and malaise for America, Jimmy Carter. You know, interest rates going crazy, oil embargo, and you know, he.

• 44:38Griffin Newman?

  It's morning in America. That's what you mean.

• 44:40David Sims?

  Well, no, it wouldn't be morning in America.

• 44:42Griffin Newman?

  It's no longer.

• 44:42David Sims?

  This movie came out and of course Ronald Reagan, as noted on the Wikipedia page, did watch this movie. I wonder what he thought of it.

• 44:47Speaker 02

  It's dusk in America.

• 44:48Griffin Newman?

  It's dusk in America.

• 44:49David Sims?

  In America. And, uh, Thoreau says that like the sort of encroachment of Japanese business, I guess, was a big thing. Obviously that's a thing in this movie.

• 45:00Speaker 02

  I remember that as a child.

• 45:01David Sims?

  So quaint now, but like that he's like, yeah, you would look at your coffee cup and it would say made in Japan or was it like?

• 45:06Speaker 02

  Automakers. As like, as a young kid in the eighties, I very vividly remember my parents at the dinner table talking about the incursion of Toyota and Honda. And what does this mean?

• 45:17David Sims?

  So he creates this character, Allie Fox. He sees him as a quintessentially American character. That's basically like, I hate the government. I hate what's happened. I want to buy my own town and figure it out. Uh, Jonestown, Jim Jones.

• 45:31Griffin Newman?

  Oh, good guy.

• 45:33David Sims?

  Yeah. Great. Lot of ideas. Big, big idea guy.

• 45:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Would have been a great podcaster. Can you imagine?

• 45:40Speaker 02

  He had some strong ideas.

• 45:41Griffin Newman?

  If he had just gotten that out of his system in the podcast.

• 45:43Speaker 02

  Manosphere.

• 45:45Griffin Newman?

  It would have been the gym sphere.

• 45:46Speaker 02

  Ayo.

• 45:47David Sims?

  Obviously, the.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  Jim Jones experience.

• 45:51David Sims?

  The Jonestown massacre is 78, I think. Like, so it's a, you know, the idea of like trying to create your utopia in the jungle and it all going wrong is, is, is fresh on his mind.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  I do like this. I think it's a little bit of a riff too on like Brook Farm and utopian societies from the 1800s, which is a quite a rabbit hole if you are interested.

• 46:10David Sims?

  And I will be starting a utopian society in 2026. Haven't whittled all the details down, but you know, let me know any ideas.

• 46:19Griffin Newman?

  Sims City.

• 46:20David Sims?

  That's my pivot. Yes. Sims City is on route.

• 46:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 46:25Speaker 02

  What do they have there? What are they? What do we do there? Is it, is it a commune style where we all have, we do, we all do the same job?

• 46:33David Sims?

  Things I want where I'm like napping.

• 46:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 46:36Speaker 02

  Who's in charge of tweeting?

• 46:37David Sims?

  You know, you can do that.

• 46:38Griffin Newman?

  Sandwich place.

• 46:40David Sims?

  Yeah. Yes. Subs.

• 46:44David Sims?

  Super Nintendo.

• 46:46Speaker 02

  Just like, what do I want to do? Nothing.

• 46:49Griffin Newman?

  I'm just imagining David being.

• 46:50David Sims?

  Hang with friends.

• 46:52Griffin Newman?

  I can't respond to that yet. I can promise you there will be fries.

• 46:56David Sims?

  Right, right. Yeah. Running water. We love that. So he goes to, Thoreau goes to Honduras and China also. I guess just trying to sort of take stock of things. An American author called Moritz Thompson. He meets him in Ecuador. I don't know. You know, a lot of stuff. I'm not going to get into all this. But he is right. He is like focused on like, the book will be from the perspective of his, of Ally's son, not Ally. Like this needs to be, you know, not a completely, you know, just like you're in the brain of this man thing, like you're sympathetic to him. No, you're, you're watching this man go down this path. The rights get picked up immediately, pretty much, by Solzhenitsy's company.

• 47:40Speaker 02

  It's a hugely celebrated novel.

• 47:41David Sims?

  Uh, exactly. And Solzhenitsy's company had done, uh, Cougar's Nest and Amadeus. So they're, you know, riding high.

• 47:49Griffin Newman?

  Won two of his eventual three Best Picture Oscars.

• 47:52David Sims?

  Uh, right. What was the third?

• 47:54Griffin Newman?

  Uh, English person?

• 47:55David Sims?

  Right.

• 47:55Griffin Newman?

  I think it's Zantz.

• 47:56David Sims?

  Yeah, sorry.

• 47:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 47:57David Sims?

  Sorry. Solzantz, you're right.

• 47:59Griffin Newman?

  Like ants.

• 47:59David Sims?

  I always, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sylvester Stallone. Um.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  A great identifier of quality prestige material.

• 48:07David Sims?

  At that time.

• 48:07Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, absolutely. And was Milos Forman's guy.

• 48:10Griffin Newman?

  It was like, this guy knows how to pick them. Yeah.

• 48:13Speaker 02

  And also, he knew how to pick The Hobbit, which he owned the rights to for a very long time.

• 48:17David Sims?

  That was an easy check to cash for a while.

• 48:20Griffin Newman?

  Unbelievable.

• 48:20David Sims?

  His name's on every one of those fucking things.

• 48:22Griffin Newman?

  Yep.

• 48:23David Sims?

  Um.

• 48:23Griffin Newman?

  He made up a contract and he sat on it for 25 years.

• 48:26David Sims?

  Paul Schrader, heard of him?

• 48:28Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 48:28David Sims?

  Another normal fella.

• 48:30Griffin Newman?

  I guess I must have known that he wrote this at some deep recess, recess of my brain. And yet, when the opening credits hit last night, I was, I was rubbing my hands like Harrison Ford, let's get to work.

• 48:41Speaker 02

  Obviously, of course, he wrote this movie.

• 48:44Griffin Newman?

  Exactly.

• 48:45David Sims?

  It appeals. Obviously, he has fully transitioned at this point to mostly directing, writing, directing.

• 48:51Griffin Newman?

  Okay. I, you meant at this point, not present day.

• 48:54David Sims?

  He takes this on, however, only to write, uh, he wants to make Mishima, uh, that's his sort of big, he has just done Cat People. And so he does like it, though. In 2021, he says Fox is, uh, All American Hustler, The Con Man, the Donald Trump character, The Sawdust Preacher. Said that in 2021, though. He didn't say that in 82.

• 49:12Griffin Newman?

  Okay, okay. He could have said it in 82.

• 49:15David Sims?

  Peter Weir, who has made Picnic at Hanging Rock and The Last Wave and is looking to pivot out of that. We talk about this a lot on Witness, that he maybe was going to direct The Thorn Birds, which eventually turns into a, uh, television, uh, mini-series.

• 49:30Griffin Newman?

  Has Year of Living Dangerously already happened, or is this kind of contemporaneous?

• 49:33David Sims?

  Yeah, but, but, but, um, well, no, it hasn't happened when he's circling the Thorn.

• 49:38Griffin Newman?

  That's my question.

• 49:38David Sims?

  Right. That's post Last Wave.

• 49:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 49:40David Sims?

  That's his first dip into, should I do a Hollywood thing? Instead, no, he goes and makes Gallipoli. Year of Living Dangerously is a co-production with MGM, so Hollywood's entering. He reads mosquito book. He just, mosquito, mosquito book. And he just loves how bizarre it is. He loves how this is like a Shakespearean protagonist, right? Like you're just watching him like crack. Right?

• 50:02Griffin Newman?

  It's an incredible setup for a movie.

• 50:04David Sims?

  And it's like, to him, it is like, he's like, it's like an American Macbeth or whatever. Right? Like, it's just like the unraveling of a man, but this very American kind of man.

• 50:13Griffin Newman?

  I, yeah, yeah.

• 50:14David Sims?

  And so he's into that and he likes the idea of a Harrison Ford. Or someone else. He mentions like John Mc, John Wayne, Steve McQueen, like taking some American guy.

• 50:27Griffin Newman?

  Playing with someone's hero iconography. Yeah.

• 50:31David Sims?

  Um, super cool. Brings, you know, Paul Schrader, obviously he's done the screenplay. They all chat. We're basically sticks to Schrader's script. Like he had some ideas to futz with it. But I think he ended up like, you know, basically using what he was given. He printed a pamphlet of Ali Fox's rants from the book that he titled, The Thoughts of Ali Fox. I guess just to sort of get into that vibe.

• 50:59Griffin Newman?

  Ali Fox, another guy who could have gotten a lot out of his system with a podcast.

• 51:03David Sims?

  And to get to what Griffin was queuing up, Jack Nicholson is the early and very logical.

• 51:10Griffin Newman?

  Yep.

• 51:10David Sims?

  Choice to star in this film.

• 51:12Griffin Newman?

  Now, Jack Nicholson, audiences like watching him spiral.

• 51:16David Sims?

  Jack.

• 51:17Griffin Newman?

  It is appealing to watch Nicholson do anything, especially when the behavior is bad and the psychosis is high. And so I think, uh, this movie doesn't work with him as much as it makes sense because he's almost like too charismatic, too compelling. And to watch his life spiral just becomes like jungle shining.

• 51:38Speaker 02

  Here's a weird thing about this movie, though. I would argue Harrison Ford's character is more or less consistent through the entire movie. At the very beginning of the film, the piss and vinegar and all the speechifying. He's basically the same guy at the end of the movie. He never really moves off of any position. He doesn't do that thing that you're talking about that Nicholson does where over the course of 100 minutes, you watch a guy go from normal to completely insane. You know, the, the witches of Eastwick style meltdown. Ally like. All the way through his death, it's a true believer in himself.

• 52:13Griffin Newman?

  It's more than right. This guy starts at 100 and he refuses to give up a, a single percentage point, even as he is faced with evidence that he is wrong. You know, that's the common slam that I disagree with on Nicholson's casting in Shining is that that guy is too baseline crazy for a movie that needs to be built around him dissolving. And I think the magic of Nicholson is he can start a movie and you go, that's the most guy I've ever seen. And then he finds a way to add more.

• 52:41David Sims?

  Yeah, that's why Shining is so good.

• 52:43Griffin Newman?

  I mean, but I also think, right, it's he would.

• 52:46Speaker 02

  There's too much eyebrow work going on in the first 30 minutes of Shining.

• 52:48Griffin Newman?

  Nicholson.

• 52:49Speaker 02

  Just like just tone, tone down the inherent malevolence of whatever you are doing.

• 52:53Griffin Newman?

  If Nicholson was playing Ali Fox, he would be ratcheting.

• 52:58Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 52:58Griffin Newman?

  He wouldn't stay at the same level where the point is this guy's unbendable. He would be going crazy.

• 53:04David Sims?

  I think he'd be good. He's a good actor.

• 53:06Griffin Newman?

  I'm not saying he'd be bad.

• 53:07Speaker 02

  I think he makes a little more sense in the early eighties than he does in the mid eighties as well.

• 53:11Griffin Newman?

  I'm just making the case for why I think Ford is the perfect guy because you've already set out this question of.

• 53:17David Sims?

  Right. Well, they considered him perfect, but Saul Zantz, Zantz?

• 53:21Speaker 02

  Zantz.

• 53:22David Sims?

  I thought it was Zantz. Is it Zantz? Who knows? Okay.

• 53:25Griffin Newman?

  Zantz like.

• 53:25Speaker 02

  I'm trying to remember the pronunciation of the 1997 Oscars.

• 53:29Griffin Newman?

  Sharon Stone.

• 53:30David Sims?

  For some reason thinks himself, uh, like as like a kingmaker for Nicholson. He's like, I made your career with Cuckoo's Nest.

• 53:38Speaker 02

  A cuckoo's nest at this point is like 10 years old.

• 53:41Griffin Newman?

  But it won him, won him his first Oscar.

• 53:43David Sims?

  I know, but like Jack Nicholson has gone on to, you know, continue to succeed. And so he lowballs him and Nicholson's like, fuck you. Like you don't get to lowball me just because like you made a good movie with me a while ago. Right? Like, uh, and so it turns into an ego thing. And of course, what does Harrison Ford get paid? The salary Jack wanted. So it's like, it's all silliness. Um, Schrader calls it a pissing contest. Schrader also says it obviously would have been a much better film with Jack. So I guess we know where Schrader lands on this one.

• 54:16Speaker 02

  Well, that's because Ford has been publicly critical of the script that they ended up making.

• 54:20David Sims?

  Right.

• 54:20Speaker 02

  Which is not the script he thought they ultimately should.

• 54:22David Sims?

  Paul Schrader doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who grinds axes. I don't know what you're talking about. But while this is all happening, the film falls apart, obviously, and Weir goes over to Witness, which is this like go picture that has Ford attached, that has producers, that has studio, you know, blah, blah, blah.

• 54:36Griffin Newman?

  They hit it all.

• 54:36David Sims?

  Gets made.

• 54:37Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 54:37David Sims?

  Rocks.

• 54:38Griffin Newman?

  But like halfway through filming Witness, Weir starts like.

• 54:41David Sims?

  Weir's like, I got this thing I want to do.

• 54:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. And Ford's immediately in, goes to his reps. His reps are like, you shouldn't do this. And Ford is undeterred. He's like, I like this guy. I like this character. I like where I want to go.

• 54:55David Sims?

  A lot of the stuff I'm quoting is from an article that was on The Ringer in 2021, by the way, Sean.

• 55:00Speaker 02

  Oh, great.

• 55:01David Sims?

  And Ford, you know, and Weir agree, they don't want to be completely slavish to the book. They think in the book Fox is crazy from the beginning. They think they should build up to it. Now, I am not sure they succeeded at that from go. I agree with what you guys are saying where I'm like, he's pretty crazy from the start.

• 55:18Griffin Newman?

  He's just very ranty. He's got all these.

• 55:20David Sims?

  He's a tough thing.

• 55:22Speaker 02

  Philosophizing.

• 55:23David Sims?

  Alexander is like, get me out of here. I don't want to deal with you anymore.

• 55:28Griffin Newman?

  Just on Xander, very effective.

• 55:29David Sims?

  Yeah, he's good.

• 55:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 55:31David Sims?

  Ford says, found him more right than wrong in what he was saying. There's the complexity, the family story, the relationship between a father and son and husband and wife. There's humor and pathos. I mean, like you say, Ford's very good at talking like in an emotional and complex way about the work he does. He loves Peter Weir. He says he's got vision, you know, like that's great. And he calls himself an assistant storyteller. He's like, I'm the person who calls for logic and applauding kind of determination to have all the cards on the table.

• 56:01Griffin Newman?

  This is what I was about to say. And we talked about this a lot in Witness, that he really thinks of himself as a storyteller first and foremost, and that's his main function as an actor, especially since he usually plays the steady guy at the center to help carry the audience through the story. I would argue this is the first time he is playing a character where that is not his primary responsibility. Where his primary responsibility is get this guy right. Because in a certain way, Phoenix is carrying the story more. We're is really carrying the story.

• 56:30David Sims?

  Phoenix is carrying the emotion. Yeah.

• 56:34Griffin Newman?

  The audience is not being carried by Ali Fox in watching this film.

• 56:40Speaker 02

  So it's a movie where the villain is the hero. It's very uncommon.

• 56:44David Sims?

  It's very uncommon, especially obviously for a Hollywood movie starring fucking Han Solo and Indiana Jones. The crew's mostly Australian, and this is something I think is worth noting. Both Weir and John Seal agree. If Harrison Ford was an American with had an American, he would be Australian. They're like, he's just got a very Australian vibe. He wants to sit in a deck chair. He wants to like, you know, drink beers with the mates. You know what I mean? Like, it's just kind of like an Australian without actually being from Australia. Harrison Ford suggested River Phoenix, thought that he looked like him as a young man and had liked him in like Stand By Me and shit. Helen Mirren had only done one Hollywood movie, which is 2010. Normal movie.

• 57:27Griffin Newman?

  I guess Excalibur was released by Warner Brothers, but was British.

• 57:30David Sims?

  Yeah. And that was all shot in Britain and all that. So she's kind of like a little overwhelmed and starstruck and like Harrison Ford. This is intense. And, you know, she wants to, and she envisions herself as like beautiful and floating through the jungle. And Peter Weir's like, no, you're not going to wear any makeup, bro. Like this is, yeah, this is a dirty movie. They shoot it in Belize, in Central America. And especially back then, I think Belize was pretty off grid. And so it was like a long, sort of humid, kind of tough shoot, but Ford looks back on it really fondly. He's like, I had a wooden yacht. I mean, I don't know. That's the Harrison Ford's thing is just like, I had a vehicle, right?

• 58:15Speaker 02

  You know what's notable about the timing for him? He's not yet a father.

• 58:20Griffin Newman?

  That is interesting.

• 58:21Speaker 02

  Had any kids.

• 58:22David Sims?

  So who did he have kids with? Was it a?

• 58:24Speaker 02

  Melissa Matheson. Yeah, the next year.

• 58:26David Sims?

  He has five kids.

• 58:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:28David Sims?

  Total.

• 58:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. Is that right? Am I getting that right?

• 58:30David Sims?

  And, and then if you think about shrinking seasons as his children, it's even more children.

• 58:34Griffin Newman?

  But is he? How old is he when this movie comes out? Forty three, forty four?

• 58:40David Sims?

  Uh, let's think, yeah, about, yeah, about that. Yeah. Yeah. Forty four.

• 58:43Speaker 02

  I think I've got. No, I'm wrong. I'm wrong. He's got an, he's got, he has an older son at this point.

• 58:47Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 58:47Speaker 02

  I misspoke because he has, he has kids in the, he has two kids in the eighties and then he has one kid with Calista Flockhart as well.

• 58:54David Sims?

  He had, all right, I'm going to give it all to you. He had two kids.

• 58:57Speaker 02

  Okay, two kids.

• 58:58David Sims?

  With Mary Marghart. This is sort of like way pre fame.

• 59:01Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 59:02David Sims?

  In the sixties.

• 59:02Speaker 02

  It's with Melissa Matheson.

• 59:03David Sims?

  Yeah. He had two sons in the sixties. Then he has two kids with Melissa Matheson, a son and a daughter in eighty seven and ninety. And then, uh, he did have a son with, uh, Calista Flockhart in two thousand and one. So yeah.

• 59:16Speaker 02

  So he does. So he is.

• 59:18Griffin Newman?

  He's a daddy.

• 59:18Speaker 02

  In alley mode.

• 59:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 59:20David Sims?

  And he is.

• 59:20Speaker 02

  Not Alan McBeal, Allie Fox.

• 59:21Griffin Newman?

  He is daddy. He is daddy. We, we talked a lot.

• 59:24David Sims?

  Sunglasses somewhere. I was going to put them on.

• 59:26Griffin Newman?

  We talked a lot in our witness episode, uh, with, with your co-host Amanda Dobbin.

• 59:29Speaker 02

  Wait, what? You did what? We'll delete it. We'll delete it.

• 59:33Griffin Newman?

  I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.

• 59:34Speaker 02

  You what?

• 59:36Griffin Newman?

  So sorry. Is that the hottest he's ever been in a movie? And we basically landed on that or Working Girl.

• 59:44Speaker 02

  I'm shocked to hear that that was Amanda's.

• 59:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. He's not obviously, uh, appealing in the same way in this film. He does look fucking good.

• 59:52Speaker 02

  He does.

• 59:53Griffin Newman?

  He looks long hair.

• 59:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. His hair looks good. The glasses work.

• 59:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 59:58Speaker 02

  He's just a very strong man.

• 1:00:00Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:00:00Speaker 02

  You know, he's not, he's not, he's not diesel. He's just a strong man. You know, when you met a man in nineteen eighty seven and you're like, this guy, he's got some strength on him.

• 1:00:09Griffin Newman?

  Broad shoulders.

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  He's got some, there's some.

• 1:00:11Griffin Newman?

  Significant arms. He's just a sturdy guy.

• 1:00:14Speaker 02

  This man has held lumber.

• 1:00:15Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:00:15Speaker 02

  In his hands, you know? He knows what a power saw feels like.

• 1:00:19Griffin Newman?

  He knows how to crash a plane.

• 1:00:21David Sims?

  That's, he really knows. Weirdly, weirdly, weirdly close to that one. You know, they shoot the film. As Sean was alluding to, there's a lot of push and pull over, like, to what extent did they just shoot the script? Weir's always very like, oh, you know, I like to discover stuff on set and you know, like, I guess that's sort of the debate. Of authorship here, but you know.

• 1:00:44Speaker 02

  I mean, Schrader makes this a Schrader movie like the Paul Theroux's writing. He's one of the great travel writers of all time. He wrote this great book. If you have not read it called The Great Railway Bazaar. It's considered one of the foremost travelogue, nonfiction journey movies ever. He makes his name by being a white man from Massachusetts, who goes to Africa, goes to Singapore, goes to all over Europe, travels the world, writes about his experiences in this very forthright, but emotional way. A lot of his novels are like this. They are emotional pragmatist novels. And Paul Schrader is not an emotional pragmatist.

• 1:01:22Speaker 02

  He's the opposite. He is a person of extraordinary outsized biblical intensity. And so there is this clash in what the story is meant to be and how people felt about the novel and where the movie ends up, which is, you know, it's one of Schrader's underground men. Like that's what that's ultimately what this movie is.

• 1:01:43Griffin Newman?

  So if we view like the spectrum of Theroux, it feels like is creating this Ali Fox character as like a shadow version of himself, right? Interrogating his worst fears of who he is and what he's doing, entering these other cultures and then reporting back to other people. And that the most curdled version of that is going, I know how I could do this better. I could just do this and I'd have it all figured out. And even that scene where they go to the home of the workers and he's showing the kids around and he's like, look at this. They live like kings. We can do this, right? This weird kind of like exoticism and like putting them on a pedestal in a way that is condescending in its own sense. It feels

• 1:02:25Griffin Newman?

  like Theroux is like litigating his own concerns about where do I stand on this?

• 1:02:29Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. Yes.

• 1:02:30Griffin Newman?

  Right?

• 1:02:30Speaker 02

  That's why it's written through the eyes of the child. Yeah.

• 1:02:32Griffin Newman?

  Right. Then not within this specific world, but as you said, Schrader is a mole man. He's an underground man and he is someone who digs in and spirals into things like this. This is not his world, but he more closely represents the psychology of someone like an Ali Fox. And then we. Weir is all the way on the other end of Thoreau being like, I actually have objectivity and distance from both of you. And Weir is really good at looking at different cultures butting up against each other with a sense of distance. And Ford says that one of the things he loved about Weir is that he finds that a lot of times, the best filmmakers at making films about America are the ones who are on the outside.

• 1:03:13Speaker 02

  Well, the other Weir thing that you guys, I'm sure will be getting to in this series is that most of his best movies are about the relentless power of the natural world. That like, getting stuck somewhere or stuck inside of something, you cannot beat Mother Nature. And this is a movie that ultimately becomes most interested in that in the third act. I haven't read this novel, this Thoreau novel, so I can't say how much fealty there is. But to me, that's what Weir brings, which is there's a fucking typhoon happening, and there's no one better suited to putting that on screen than this director at this time. But you take those three interests, right? You take the mole man, you take Harrison Ford's-

• 1:03:54David Sims?

  Harrison trying to subvert something with himself.

• 1:03:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, make a new persona for himself. And you take this great naturalist, using this text that is like, meant to be, I think, a movie about how, when you're a kid, you think your parents are heroic and perfect, and then you turn a certain age and you realize, they're as full of shit as anybody. That's the core emotional turn of this book, which is a great idea that I think most people can relate to. It just so happens that, rather than like, your parents getting a divorce, or moving to a new city, or changing jobs, or losing their job, he moves them to a different country.

• 1:04:30Griffin Newman?

  This guy is about as full of shit as you possibly could be, and the world calls his bluff so fucking hard.

• 1:04:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:04:37Griffin Newman?

  So it becomes, right, an exploded version of what you're saying. I just have to bring this up because the quote is really funny, but Ford talking about his opinion that like, foreign directors often comment on America better than American directors. And he said, you know, the problem you get into is you work with foreign directors, and if they don't have a handle on the language, then what they gain in perspective, they're losing the ability to communicate with the cast and crew. And he said, but Peter doesn't have that problem. He's Australian, and they speak something close to English.

• 1:05:11Speaker 02

  Good point.

• 1:05:11Griffin Newman?

  Which is a great Ford joke.

• 1:05:13David Sims?

  Good Ford joke.

• 1:05:23Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:05:23David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:23Griffin Newman?

  This episode is brought to you by XYZ Films and the acclaimed new documentary, Capturing Bigfoot.

• 1:05:29David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 1:05:29Griffin Newman?

  On October 20th, 1967, Roger Patterson captured 59 seconds of film showing a creature walking through the Northern California woods. I wonder if you can log that on Letterboxd?

• 1:05:40David Sims?

  It is an iconic video.

• 1:05:42Griffin Newman?

  Footage that became the most analyzed and debated in history. 59 years later, a reel of 16mm film discovered in a safe changes everything. Capturing Bigfoot reveals the untold story behind the world's greatest mystery told for the first time by Patterson's own son and the people who were there. This is a story about family legacy, broken friendships, and how far people will go to protect a secret.

• 1:06:04David Sims?

  Of course, you've got the classic, what they call Patterson Gimlin film everyone knows of Bigfoot out in the woods, like the famous Bigfoot picture. This has other stuff shot by him that no one's ever seen. That's what makes this movie different.

• 1:06:16Griffin Newman?

  But we're also talking brand new 4K scans of the original film taken from the Patterson family archives that some historians have called the best rendering of the footage ever seen.

• 1:06:25David Sims?

  I feel like we've all seen that footage as like grainy.

• 1:06:28Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:06:28David Sims?

  You know, that you see, you know, whatever, you see it in a documentary for two seconds. But this is restoring it and making it look much more clear.

• 1:06:35Griffin Newman?

  There's also a companion podcast, the Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, which goes deeper into the legend and lore of Bigfoot and the Patterson Gimlin film, featuring weekly episodes with experts in cryptozoology, urban legends, and filmmaking.

• 1:06:49David Sims?

  I'm something of an expert in cryptozoology.

• 1:06:51Griffin Newman?

  Well, of course, yes, but that's more of a hobby.

• 1:06:53David Sims?

  Yeah, this podcast, Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, is hosted by the director of the film, Mark Evans, and it's available for free on YouTube and Spotify with exclusive episodes and content available on Patreon to members of the Capturing Bigfoot Society.

• 1:07:09Griffin Newman?

  Capturing Bigfoot is now available to rent or own on Amazon Prime Video. Learn more about Capturing Bigfoot at capturingbigfoot.com.

• 1:07:26Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 1:07:27David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:07:28Griffin Newman?

  People cut the cord means the death of the repeat, the rerun. But where, where do repeats still exist? In your closet.

• 1:07:36David Sims?

  Ah, the sweater that goes with everything, Griffin. The tee you somehow always reach for first.

• 1:07:41Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's, we know the feeling.

• 1:07:43David Sims?

  Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy. That's what Quince does best.

• 1:07:46Griffin Newman?

  Quince.

• 1:07:47David Sims?

  This is true for me. I will say I go to Quince. I buy a thing like a polo shirt, a sweater, whatever. And I'm like, oh, I like that. Guess I'll get a bunch more because now that's what I'm going to put on.

• 1:07:58Griffin Newman?

  Quince focuses on high quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton and merino wool. The styles are timeless, versatile and designed to become the dependable pieces you reach for day after day.

• 1:08:12David Sims?

  Love it. They got those 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters. Those start at just $60.

• 1:08:16Griffin Newman?

  I love those.

• 1:08:17David Sims?

  Giving you the softness and quality you'd expect from a luxury brand without that luxury price tag. And look, it's starting to get chillier. You're gonna need layers, right? How about you just do Quince for every layer, huh?

• 1:08:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:30David Sims?

  Jacket, sweater, shirt.

• 1:08:32Griffin Newman?

  David, you know what I love?

• 1:08:33David Sims?

  What?

• 1:08:34Griffin Newman?

  The ultimate commuter pants.

• 1:08:35David Sims?

  Oh.

• 1:08:36Griffin Newman?

  Cause I'm commuting constantly.

• 1:08:38David Sims?

  Beep beep.

• 1:08:39Griffin Newman?

  Yep, that's me. David, I like these. They're just clean. They're comfortable. They got the right amount of pockets.

• 1:08:45David Sims?

  Wow. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was blank check. It's the best way to support the show.

• 1:09:11Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:09:12David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:09:12Griffin Newman?

  He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full cast audio thriller starring Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, and an A-list cast, including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many more. That is an all-star cast.

• 1:09:33David Sims?

  Yeah, this new full cast thriller locks Mina Harker in a battle of minds with the Count. When Mina's fiance, Jonathan Harker, Louis Partridge, vanishes in Transylvania, Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula's already hunting her.

• 1:09:53Griffin Newman?

  Joined by the enigmatic Van Helsing, Mina and a small fearless band race against time to stop this ancient terror. Using her intellect, her resolve, and a gift for drawing the unseen lines between clues, Mina may just hold the key to bring down the Count if he hasn't already found his way inside her mind.

• 1:10:09David Sims?

  Featuring a haunting original score by Elon Eschke, and a spatial dolby Atmos sound design, Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Don't miss this year's best new audio thriller, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Audible's new full cast original adaptation, written by Robin Ahern, now on Audible. Listen to the darkness. Go to audible.com/listen2dracula.

• 1:10:45Griffin Newman?

  Andre Gregory, pretty brilliant casting choice, in my opinion.

• 1:10:49David Sims?

  Yeah, he's really good.

• 1:10:51Griffin Newman?

  My Dinner with Andre, the first movie he's in, period.

• 1:10:53David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:10:54Griffin Newman?

  He's obviously not someone who would, I think, designs on having a movie career.

• 1:10:58David Sims?

  He's an avant-garde theater guy.

• 1:10:59Griffin Newman?

  Right. And then he has this, like, weird arthouse breakout. And by the time we get to the 90s, it's like, can we plug Andre Gregory into Demolition Man and shit? But this is a really smart place to put him. It's a different character than he is, but it's using his same ability to talk with authority.

• 1:11:20David Sims?

  Yeah, he had been in Author Author, the forgotten Al Pacino Arthur Hiller movie. Author, author! He's in the Goldie Hawn Cocktail Waitress Congressional Scandal Film Protocol, also somewhat forgotten.

• 1:11:34Speaker 02

  Yes, written by Buck Henry.

• 1:11:35David Sims?

  Uh, right. And then this, after this, he does Street Smart, uh, which he's, he's good. That's a decent movie. Uh, he's John the Baptist in Last Temptation of Christ, normal performance. Uh, I really love that movie. Uh,

• 1:11:48Speaker 02

  Paul Schrader also took a pass at that one.

• 1:11:50David Sims?

  Well, he wrote it. Yeah. I mean, well, I guess, you know, the Bible first.

• 1:11:54Griffin Newman?

  He took a pass on the Bible. Quick dialogue polish on the Bible.

• 1:11:59David Sims?

  He's a good counter to Ford.

• 1:12:01Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:12:02David Sims?

  He is charismatic in his own weird way, but in a very different way.

• 1:12:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:06David Sims?

  Than Harrison.

• 1:12:07Griffin Newman?

  It's not movie star energy.

• 1:12:08David Sims?

  No.

• 1:12:09Speaker 02

  He's a greedy, narrow.

• 1:12:10David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:11Speaker 02

  Hectoring.

• 1:12:11Griffin Newman?

  It's intellectual Titan energy. Yeah. Which he was able to translate well to movies.

• 1:12:16David Sims?

  But yeah, the film starts before we even get to Andre Gregory with, he's an inventor. That's Ollie Fox's deal.

• 1:12:24Griffin Newman?

  What's the math? He's got six patents and three more pending.

• 1:12:28David Sims?

  River Phoenix is laying it all out for us.

• 1:12:30Speaker 02

  It was nine patents, six pending.

• 1:12:31Griffin Newman?

  I think that's right. Yeah.

• 1:12:32David Sims?

  Uh, he's trying to build an ice machine that he has dubbed Fat Boy. And he is just kind of a tough hang. He goes to the hardware store and starts yelling about how things are made in Japan, where it's like, okay, buddy, like, it's not fucking anyone's fault. Like,

• 1:12:50Griffin Newman?

  In the parlance.

• 1:12:51David Sims?

  Have some human compassion.

• 1:12:52Griffin Newman?

  Of blank track, incredibly normal guy.

• 1:12:55Speaker 02

  He's very angry about the phrase, have a nice day, which I enjoy.

• 1:12:59Griffin Newman?

  This is what's so.

• 1:13:00Speaker 02

  That's a great thing to get mad about.

• 1:13:02Griffin Newman?

  What's so funny?

• 1:13:03Speaker 02

  But if that's what you're gonna, how are you gonna just draw breath every morning?

• 1:13:06Griffin Newman?

  This is what I think is fascinating about watching this movie for the first time last night is the, the targets are different, but in so many ways, it feels like this movie must've been presenting a character of like, look at our creation. We've imagined the least normal, most wound up man in the world. Even when he's right, it's annoying, right? And you're just like, I can't imagine someone being this fucking on their high horse all the time. And then you're like, the targets are different, but he has so much of a similarity. To today's like Fox News poison person getting upset about like they don't even say Merry Christmas at Starbucks.

• 1:13:43David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:13:43Griffin Newman?

  Like all of his weird grace.

• 1:13:45David Sims?

  So deep in a whole Ben, what do you want to say?

• 1:13:47Speaker 03

  Somewhat triggering for me because it does remind me of my dad in a very particular way, which is that he always would just spout off about people who drove luxury cars, but in a tense way where he'd be like, fuck this BMW driver. I hope he crashes because like the guy who cut him off.

• 1:14:08David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:14:09Speaker 03

  Mercedes Lexus.

• 1:14:10David Sims?

  Goes a little.

• 1:14:11Speaker 03

  He just was like.

• 1:14:12David Sims?

  He jumps up on the rage.

• 1:14:13Speaker 03

  Monologuing about how like anyone who drives these cars is a piece of shit. And I remember being a kid being like, dude.

• 1:14:22Griffin Newman?

  Generalize.

• 1:14:23Speaker 03

  My God.

• 1:14:24Griffin Newman?

  I do feel like everyone's dad has at least one thing like that where you're like, why are you so wound up about this thing?

• 1:14:31Speaker 02

  Can I tell you what my dad says?

• 1:14:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:34Speaker 02

  My parents split, my dad got remarried, married to lovely woman named Colleen. Colleen loves Bruce Springsteen.

• 1:14:41Speaker 02

  My dad will not accept that Bruce Springsteen's nickname is the boss. My dad is like, he's not the boss, I'm the boss. I swear to God, my father has said that out loud at least a dozen times.

• 1:14:54Griffin Newman?

  That's.

• 1:14:55David Sims?

  So he's just like, no one but I can be the boss.

• 1:14:59Speaker 02

  I think he's like, what makes him the boss? The boss of what? He's, I, I think he's genuinely rageful about this idea. It's a very, I mean, it's a, it's dadish.

• 1:15:10Griffin Newman?

  How do you feel about the wrestler boss man?

• 1:15:12Speaker 02

  The big boss man?

• 1:15:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:14Speaker 02

  From Marietta County?

• 1:15:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:17Speaker 02

  I think he's a problematic figure.

• 1:15:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. Didn't he like wear a cop uniform?

• 1:15:22Speaker 02

  Believe he hit people with batons in the ring.

• 1:15:24Griffin Newman?

  What about the?

• 1:15:25Speaker 03

  So I remember that's what coming back to me now.

• 1:15:27Speaker 02

  I think he probably wouldn't work now.

• 1:15:30Griffin Newman?

  Isn't that the heel?

• 1:15:31David Sims?

  Isn't the reason, I only know this because I've been writing about the movie, the, the very good Scott Cooper movie with, that's so.

• 1:15:38Speaker 02

  I thought you were gonna say the big boss man movie.

• 1:15:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm writing about, I'm writing a big boss.

• 1:15:41Griffin Newman?

  Scott Cooper's doing big boss next.

• 1:15:43Speaker 03

  No, it's just, they call him the boss because he did.

• 1:15:47David Sims?

  Taxes and shit and finances. And so the East Street Band guys would be like, all right, boss.

• 1:15:53Griffin Newman?

  Cause he's the responsible.

• 1:15:54David Sims?

  Yeah. And then eventually that just became the shorthand of like, are you okay, boss? Like, you know, it just, it's funny.

• 1:16:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:00David Sims?

  They weren't like, you're the boss of America's sincerity and integrity. Like, it's like, you know, it's just like, oh, boss man over here.

• 1:16:09Griffin Newman?

  My, my dad is like this with tattoos.

• 1:16:12David Sims?

  Oh, he doesn't like tattoos.

• 1:16:13Griffin Newman?

  If he meets a person with tattoos, he can't get over it.

• 1:16:15David Sims?

  He's like, why did they do that? Or what does it mean? Like, what, where, what does he focus on?

• 1:16:20Griffin Newman?

  It's like a ding on character. He'll describe someone as like, they look so funky. It's all the tattoos and the thing through the nose. And he describes them like, as if they are like mutant, like Mad Max Wasteland freaks. But, but I think Ali Fox's, what if your dad was like this about every single thing?

• 1:16:39David Sims?

  That's the, right. He can't, he can't pick one. It's overload. It's just gas, like pedal to the metal constantly.

• 1:16:46Griffin Newman?

  Cause he's already complaining about one thing when Jason Alexander hands him the Japanese pipe. And he is like, we're shifting. I'm taking the off ramp. Now I'm angry about this. Like he's interrupting his own rants with other rants that present themselves.

• 1:17:00David Sims?

  But he's like, there's a moment where he's like, I could shop somewhere else. You're not the only game in town. I'm like, if you're like this.

• 1:17:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:07David Sims?

  How are you letting to any store?

• 1:17:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:09David Sims?

  Like at a certain point, surely don't people go, out of here, buddy? Like, no.

• 1:17:13Griffin Newman?

  There's a very subtle cut to Jason Alexander when he enters the store. And he underplays it beautifully, but he has that air of.

• 1:17:22David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:17:22Griffin Newman?

  Just a little.

• 1:17:24David Sims?

  But for every person that reacts that way, and we've already invoked Jim Jones and Joe Rogan in this discussion. But there is, there is a massive appeal to, of a philosopher king. Somebody who comes in and says, I have a really defined worldview.

• 1:17:41Speaker 02

  And I am charismatic and propulsive in delivering the way that I see the world. And, and join me or don't, but if you don't, it may be at your peril. That's a very effective leadership philosophy, not one that I practice, but one that is like, is very appealing and actually makes sense as a lead character in, in a, in a big story.

• 1:18:01Griffin Newman?

  Now, Ali Fox is not charismatic, but Harrison Ford is charismatic. So even him leaning into the worst of this character, he's charismatic enough for the audience to pay attention. You throw out William Hurt, who's probably a better literal interpreter of this character at this time, right?

• 1:18:17David Sims?

  And it's right, right at the peak of his.

• 1:18:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, this is in his wheelhouse of the type of character he plays. But I think if it's William Hurt at the center of this movie, five minutes and you're like, well, fuck this guy. He's a bad hang. I know he's wrong. There's just enough Harrison Ford magic for an audience to go like, can he pull it off? Even when the guy's annoying. And I, I think it's what I've already said, that like, you're like, but is he gonna kind of come to a senses? William Hurt, you're like, the guy's never gonna learn.

• 1:18:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. And the movie was DOA because the word of mouth was so bad because he doesn't.

• 1:18:52David Sims?

  Right. I mean, I do think fundamentally, guys, as much as we're, you know, like, it's like, there's no version of this movie that is much more successful. There's a version where it like is better acclaimed by critics and it makes a little bit more money, but like, you still see this as a, this is like a sort of a $30 million ceiling movie.

• 1:19:10Speaker 02

  There, there is a way to make it a more successful movie, which is at the moment, post typhoon, when mother says, we could walk up the beach to Cape Cod. If he says yes, and builds a boat that gets them back home.

• 1:19:26Griffin Newman?

  And the movie ends with them sailing.

• 1:19:27Speaker 02

  And if that move, the movie ends in that way.

• 1:19:30Griffin Newman?

  It makes twice as much as.

• 1:19:31Speaker 02

  It's a bigger movie.

• 1:19:32David Sims?

  Instead, Andre Gregory has to murk him, just absolutely lay waste to him.

• 1:19:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:37David Sims?

  Like, you don't want to go out at the hands of Andre Gregory.

• 1:19:40Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:19:40David Sims?

  That's not good.

• 1:19:41Speaker 02

  Pretty lame. Although in the book, his death is very different.

• 1:19:45David Sims?

  Oh, how does he die in the book?

• 1:19:46Speaker 02

  He doesn't just die on the boat. He is picked to death by vultures.

• 1:19:49David Sims?

  Oh, that sounds awesome.

• 1:19:50Speaker 02

  Which is a recurring theme, apparently in the book that he keeps saying, I hate vultures. And he, he kind of compares.

• 1:19:55David Sims?

  I hate vultures too, by the way. Fucking vultures.

• 1:19:58Speaker 02

  Get off my flesh. The vultures.

• 1:20:03Griffin Newman?

  Oh my God.

• 1:20:05David Sims?

  Who likes vultures?

• 1:20:06Speaker 02

  But he keeps saying like the vultures of society and you know, drawing all these illusions. And then he has literally picked.

• 1:20:12Griffin Newman?

  It's a little on the nose.

• 1:20:13Speaker 02

  A little bit. Yeah.

• 1:20:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. But I, I like that within the movie itself, Gregory is charismatic in a way that he is not.

• 1:20:23David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:23Griffin Newman?

  You're saying.

• 1:20:24David Sims?

  Inside the movie. Yeah. Sure. Sure. Sure.

• 1:20:26Griffin Newman?

  This sort of like philosopher king, like he's able to fulfill that in a way where even though he's actually has, you could argue less on his mind and less to represent. He is able to sell it more convincingly to people.

• 1:20:40Speaker 02

  His ideas just don't need to be sold to the audience because it's just Judeo-Christian values. That's what he represents and, and the idea of the missionary as in theory benevolent figure, but in practice, maybe a little bit more insidious, like Ben was saying.

• 1:20:52Griffin Newman?

  You can autocomplete. You can fill in the blanks and knowing, yeah, both silos of that. Martha Plimpton.

• 1:21:00David Sims?

  Okay.

• 1:21:01Griffin Newman?

  Quite good in this film.

• 1:21:03David Sims?

  When she bad?

• 1:21:04Griffin Newman?

  Never. This is the start of her River Phoenix relationship.

• 1:21:08David Sims?

  Yeah, I believe so. So she's been in the Goonies, which the year before, right? And that's kind of her breakout, right?

• 1:21:13Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:21:14David Sims?

  Was there a TV thing? No, there wasn't. Like that was her breakout.

• 1:21:17Griffin Newman?

  No, I just feel like there was another film I'm forgetting.

• 1:21:19David Sims?

  There is. There's like this movie, The River Rat with Tommy Lee Jones, but like, you know, I don't think that was a very big movie. Her breakthroughs.

• 1:21:27Speaker 02

  What if there was a river rat?

• 1:21:28David Sims?

  Exactly. I believe it's her.

• 1:21:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:31David Sims?

  I think I'm not sure. And then she popped up on Family Ties at some point, but that's all.

• 1:21:36Griffin Newman?

  This is basically the immediate follow-up to Goonies.

• 1:21:39David Sims?

  She's also in.

• 1:21:40Speaker 02

  Running on empty.

• 1:21:41David Sims?

  Well, that's true, which she's very good in, but no, she's also in Stars and Bars, our favorite movie that we keep invoking.

• 1:21:48Griffin Newman?

  The cast of this movie is fucking insane.

• 1:21:50David Sims?

  Griffin, I look.

• 1:21:51Griffin Newman?

  Yo, yo, Q, S, A, Keith, David.

• 1:21:53David Sims?

  Griffin, you will listen to the big picture episode I did about this.

• 1:21:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:57David Sims?

  Months ago from, I run through the list, just being like, how could this movie?

• 1:22:02Griffin Newman?

  Rocket's red glare?

• 1:22:03David Sims?

  Rocket's red glare, the possible murderer of, of Nancy Sponge and is in it. Yes.

• 1:22:11Speaker 02

  It's an insane collection of people who are great and the movie sucks.

• 1:22:14Griffin Newman?

  I feel like I invoked it on our.

• 1:22:15David Sims?

  Completely sucks.

• 1:22:16Griffin Newman?

  Our president draft episode on Big Pick, but have any of you seen First Family? That is, I want to say it's the only movie that Buck Henry directed.

• 1:22:25Speaker 02

  I was gonna say Buck Henry, yes, I haven't seen it.

• 1:22:27Griffin Newman?

  I, I think it's its only directorial, uh, work, uh, but that is a movie I've put off watching for so long.

• 1:22:32David Sims?

  Unless, like, he has the director credit on Heaven.

• 1:22:36Griffin Newman?

  Oh, of course, his only solo, yes. Um, uh, I put off watching it for so long because I had only heard horrible things and it's the ultimate. It is a White House comedy where the first family is Bob Newhart as president, Madeline Khan as first lady, Gilda Radner as their daughter, Harvey Korman, Rip Torn, Austin Pendleton, Fred Willard, Richard Benjamin, supporting cast, written, directed by Buck Henry. You put it on, within 10 minutes, you're like, this is the most rancid shit I have ever seen. It is deathly unfunny and racist. It is all about them negotiating with a fictional African nation. And the second it's represented on screen, you're like, holy shit, all of this is wrong. And all the funniest actors you've ever seen are like, mirthless, anti-smile in it.

• 1:23:21David Sims?

  So it is not a hidden gem, it does suck.

• 1:23:23Griffin Newman?

  Is Stars and Bars like that?

• 1:23:25David Sims?

  Yeah, kind of. Stars and Bars is-

• 1:23:27Speaker 02

  It's not like deep, it's, it's, it's broad in its caricature of the South, but it's not offensive.

• 1:23:31David Sims?

  It's, and Stars and Bars is just DOA. It's just one of these things where you're like, I don't get it, but yeah, oh, there's Zoe Metcalfe, yep, she's not doing much either, like-

• 1:23:40Speaker 02

  But Martha Plimpton's character in both of those movies is somewhat similar. Where it's like, this is an underage teenage girl who's drawing our lead.

• 1:23:49David Sims?

  Precocious girl, yeah, yeah, yeah, which is, I think, obviously, uh, she's, Martha Plimpton is Keith Carradine's daughter. She's, uh, you know, related to George Plimpton in some way, you know, like, she's got this sort of precocious vibe, anyway.

• 1:24:02Griffin Newman?

  But in this movie-

• 1:24:03David Sims?

  She's got the tomboy thing.

• 1:24:04Griffin Newman?

  She's got the Jessica Lovejoy thing going on.

• 1:24:06David Sims?

  Uh, she is the Reverend's daughter.

• 1:24:08Griffin Newman?

  And she, and she's like a little bit of a rapscallion.

• 1:24:11David Sims?

  Uh, for sure, I love Martha Plimpton.

• 1:24:13Speaker 02

  I think if you want to go to the bathroom.

• 1:24:14Griffin Newman?

  What a line that is.

• 1:24:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's something she says.

• 1:24:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:17David Sims?

  Um, but, uh-

• 1:24:18Speaker 02

  I think I might.

• 1:24:20David Sims?

  All right. See you later.

• 1:24:21Griffin Newman?

  Ben, Ben, think of us when you're in the

• 1:24:23David Sims?

  Just to set up a little bit more though, um, you know, Ali Fox, right? Not only does he hate everything he sees, but he also thinks like the world's about to end. Maybe he keeps talking about nuclear war. He tries to build the ice machine for a farmer that ends up with everyone screaming at each other. Like it feels like anytime he gets a job and sort of descends into recrimination.

• 1:24:44Griffin Newman?

  Such a good scene where the guy is like, you know, and he's getting all high and mighty about what he did well and how he's not respected. And the guy just stops him and is like, I agree that you're a genius. That's why I hired you. You're unbelievably good at what you do, but this right here

• 1:25:00David Sims?

  It ain't worth it.

• 1:25:01Griffin Newman?

  Fucking problem.

• 1:25:02David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:25:03Griffin Newman?

  You make everything over complicated. This is 10 times more than I asked for, and now it's like misfiring. And you're being a dick about it.

• 1:25:10Speaker 02

  So you, I mean, this is extremely obvious, but the, the modern day equivalent of Ali Fox is Elon Musk.

• 1:25:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:25:18Speaker 02

  That this is an inventor. This is a brilliant person. This is a person whose social and moral ideas are pretty nuts.

• 1:25:27Griffin Newman?

  And

• 1:25:27David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:27Speaker 02

  Like increasingly kind of conspiratorial and bizarre. Does not matter how smart you are, that doesn't make you good. That's a, that's an interesting idea.

• 1:25:35Griffin Newman?

  But that the driving force is I have identified problems in our society and I think I am the only one who knows how to fix them. And I swear to you, I'm doing this for your good.

• 1:25:47David Sims?

  Right. And he, he is smart, but he has no other applicable or sort of demonstrable skills.

• 1:25:54Griffin Newman?

  Inventors.

• 1:25:54David Sims?

  Reason to be doing what he's doing. He basically

• 1:25:57Speaker 02

  He dropped out of school.

• 1:25:58David Sims?

  Right. And then he's basically like, hey,

• 1:26:01Griffin Newman?

  Some of our greatest minds.

• 1:26:02Speaker 02

  But I, no offense to anybody who dropped out. It's more that like it indicates a lack of follow through for someone who imagines himself as

• 1:26:08David Sims?

  Well, he doesn't want to play by rules.

• 1:26:10Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say, I read it more as, can you imagine the fights he was getting into his professors with mid-class every day?

• 1:26:18David Sims?

  And you're like, and how did he get a lady? Oh, he's Harrison Ford. Right. So that's how he did that. But he decides to, uh, just, he tells his family like, hey, great news. We're leaving the United States. We're getting on a barge. Andre Gregory and Martha Plimpton are gonna be there and we are going to fucking mosquito coast, baby. I've identified where to be. We're gonna make ice there. People are really gonna want ice there.

• 1:26:39Griffin Newman?

  The immigrant employees at this construction sites who he starts like coveting.

• 1:26:43David Sims?

  And he buys.

• 1:26:45Speaker 03

  A village, uh, and he's like, this rocks. And everyone else is like, we're doomed.

• 1:26:50Griffin Newman?

  There's an immediate

• 1:26:51Speaker 03

  Not looking great.

• 1:26:51Griffin Newman?

  Immediate escalation of get off the boat. Look, it's great. And everyone's like, eh. And then a day later, he's like, better news. I have no money now, but I own a town. And the town looks even worse than the place they landed the boat.

• 1:27:04Speaker 02

  Do you guys watch Survivor?

• 1:27:05Griffin Newman?

  No. I watched the first like five years religiously and have not in two decades.

• 1:27:11Speaker 02

  No. This scene has big Survivor energy.

• 1:27:14Griffin Newman?

  I can do.

• 1:27:14Speaker 02

  Survivor is, what happens is all the contestants arrive on a boat to an island. It's now been Fiji for whatever 10 consecutive years, but prior to that, they would travel all around the world and go to different islands. And they get off the boat and it's obviously this diverse collection of people, men and women from all walks of life, different ages. And they arrive at, they get broken up into teams and they arrive at their individual camps and their camps are entirely undeveloped. And they have to build, they have to build their camp. They have to start pulling, you know, branches down and trees and palm fronds.

• 1:27:47Griffin Newman?

  And they always come in really bullish with so much energy.

• 1:27:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:50Griffin Newman?

  This is actually easy. This is better.

• 1:27:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's good. We know distractions. Here we are. Yeah.

• 1:27:56Speaker 02

  And inevitably by the end of episode one, there's one team at least that's in over their skis and they're kind of fucked. And then over the course of the next six episodes, that tribe gets radically dismantled.

• 1:28:09Griffin Newman?

  And they're screaming at each other. Right. Yes.

• 1:28:11Speaker 02

  And this is that. This is that.

• 1:28:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:13Speaker 03

  The arrival at the town and it just sucking so hard made me think of the National Lampoon Vacation movies, kind of.

• 1:28:20Griffin Newman?

  You're right. It is very much that vibe of look at the hotel room I got us reveal bad hotel.

• 1:28:25Speaker 03

  Look how great this is.

• 1:28:26Griffin Newman?

  You're right.

• 1:28:27Speaker 03

  And like everyone else is like, oh my God.

• 1:28:29David Sims?

  The journey to Wallyworld is like a very, very mild mosquito coast kind of thing. Right?

• 1:28:35Griffin Newman?

  But talking about like recognizable, relatable dad energy, right? The game with Clark Griswold is he knows this isn't good. And he's in such deep denial, he cannot surrender the idea that he's fucked up this vacation. And so he's lying to all of them to try to make it true. When Ally sees, shows them the city for the first time, the town for the first time. What's so compelling is that you're like, this guy 1,000% believes everything he's saying. Look, it's incredible. There's nothing here. We get to start from scratch.

• 1:29:11David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:12Griffin Newman?

  It's like the dream to him.

• 1:29:13David Sims?

  It's very convincing.

• 1:29:14Griffin Newman?

  Which I, you know, I, I spend too much time thinking about this, but I have a belief. It's not unique to me, but it's one I've been holding on to very strongly that a lot of these people who like are absolute devotees of, of Musk, of Trump, of many of these kind of like, uh, I don't know, demagogue.

• 1:29:34Speaker 02

  Fascist assholes.

• 1:29:35Griffin Newman?

  Yes. That, that part of it is there, and it's connected to this fucking like paleo diet shit. And let's roll back restrictions on everything that these people do to some degree want to like reset the clock.

• 1:29:48Speaker 02

  Okay. So this is something that I did want to speak to you guys about because I.

• 1:29:51David Sims?

  I'm not going with you to the mosquito coast.

• 1:29:53Speaker 02

  No, I'm not. Well.

• 1:29:54Griffin Newman?

  Just a trip, just a little trip. One live show, one live show, jungle draft.

• 1:29:59Speaker 02

  We do have ice. Ice is available.

• 1:30:02Griffin Newman?

  Big ice.

• 1:30:03David Sims?

  At least there's ice.

• 1:30:04Griffin Newman?

  Big ice.

• 1:30:05David Sims?

  Although how flammable is your ice building?

• 1:30:08Speaker 02

  No, the thing that I.

• 1:30:09David Sims?

  Medium.

• 1:30:10Griffin Newman?

  You use the ice to put out the flames created by the ice.

• 1:30:14Speaker 02

  There's a kernel of alley that I relate to, which is a thing that is hitting me very hard now at this stage of my life, which is I do fantasize a little bit about leaving it behind.

• 1:30:27Griffin Newman?

  A big time.

• 1:30:29Speaker 02

  I am a little bit like, I have signed up for a lot. I've been doing a lot for a long time.

• 1:30:35Griffin Newman?

  And how much of this do I actually like at all?

• 1:30:37David Sims?

  I'm detecting a lot of too many projects from you, you know, like.

• 1:30:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's my own making.

• 1:30:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:43Speaker 02

  My own problem. I've, I blame no one but myself, but when you are like that, when you live like that for a long time, and I've been living like that for about 10 years, there is a part of me that is just like, it doesn't have to be Honduras. It could be a, a small town north of Seattle.

• 1:31:00Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:31:00Speaker 02

  That sounds lovely.

• 1:31:01Griffin Newman?

  Is there a way to shrink my life by control?

• 1:31:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:31:05Griffin Newman?

  Which I think is like, yes, that is the relatable part of this, which is, and when you're in that kind of state, you get so hypersensitive to all these other indignities of civilization.

• 1:31:16Speaker 02

  That's exactly it. Everything else gets more annoying.

• 1:31:18Griffin Newman?

  Culture, which admittedly.

• 1:31:19Speaker 02

  It's our fault.

• 1:31:20Griffin Newman?

  Those things are. aren't working well right now.

• 1:31:22Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:31:22Griffin Newman?

  Right? And you're like, okay, so I've opted into too many things that I'm now having regrets about. And then there's all this other shit that I never had the choice to opt in or out of that drives me fucking crazy. The impulse makes sense, and I do think a lot of the anger that causes people to follow these kinds of like insane motherfuckers is that they are speaking to some level of can we burn it all down? Right? And even like Make America Great Again isn't about like, can we go back to 1965?

• 1:31:51Speaker 02

  But I have no urge to change.

• 1:31:52Griffin Newman?

  We're cavemen better than us.

• 1:31:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have no urge to change society or even compel anyone to join me. It's more about my own personal thing.

• 1:31:59Griffin Newman?

  I just want to disappear.

• 1:32:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:32:01Griffin Newman?

  In a cave with a good home theater system.

• 1:32:04Speaker 02

  Yes, with all of my Blu-rays.

• 1:32:06Griffin Newman?

  Great wifi.

• 1:32:07Speaker 02

  And I would like to go with Helen Mirren.

• 1:32:09Griffin Newman?

  I too, great choice.

• 1:32:11David Sims?

  Sure, why not? River Phoenix, he's a fun hang.

• 1:32:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:15David Sims?

  R I P. Now, the cave, like, you know, there's not gonna be air conditioning.

• 1:32:19Griffin Newman?

  Well, okay, let me say this.

• 1:32:20David Sims?

  And this planet ain't getting colder.

• 1:32:23Griffin Newman?

  No, no, it's not. The cave has central air.

• 1:32:25David Sims?

  Oh, interesting. Sure.

• 1:32:28Griffin Newman?

  There is neither sand nor grass.

• 1:32:32David Sims?

  Griffin, you are the least outdoorsy guy.

• 1:32:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:35David Sims?

  So, living off the grid is really just not for you, I feel.

• 1:32:38Speaker 02

  Are you gonna make a fire? Or how are we cooking food?

• 1:32:41David Sims?

  Sean, are you outdoors?

• 1:32:42Griffin Newman?

  Electricity.

• 1:32:43Speaker 02

  I, if I had to be, I could be.

• 1:32:45David Sims?

  But it's not appealing.

• 1:32:46Speaker 02

  I would like a mid-century modern home.

• 1:32:49Griffin Newman?

  That's what I actually want.

• 1:32:50Speaker 02

  But I could fuck with that. You know, that sounds nice. With central air, sounds useful.

• 1:32:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:54David Sims?

  Are you sure?

• 1:32:55Speaker 02

  I'd like, uh, can I get a playroom for my child?

• 1:32:58David Sims?

  But also, well, this is the main thing. It's also right. You have a kid who might be like, hey, a River Phoenix.

• 1:33:04Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:33:04David Sims?

  Situation of like, I might not be completely interested in what we're doing right now. Like, I might have other, you know, feelings and needs.

• 1:33:11Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:33:12David Sims?

  So how quickly do you go like, well, you can't go back. There's been a nuclear war.

• 1:33:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:16David Sims?

  Which is the card that Ally plays.

• 1:33:18Griffin Newman?

  It's another thing that's upsetting about this movie is we're Seeing the story from the perspective of River Phoenix, this guy has too many kids. And the more time you're spending in his son's head with the narration, seeing things through his son's eyes, you're remembering like, he's got other kids he's neglecting who are younger, who are less capable of processing this, whose heads we're not even tuned into.

• 1:33:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. And the book and the movie are like a pretty gentle social commentary on gender roles in families and the fact that mother is this like quieted person who has to go along with everything, all of his harebrained schemes.

• 1:33:55Griffin Newman?

  And just make the dresses for everybody.

• 1:33:57David Sims?

  It's why this movie is very upsetting. You're watching a family get abused by this parent who is lying to them after forcing him into a situation they don't seem that interested in. And, uh, yeah, it's like, he hates Reverend Spellgood or whatever. What's this? Yeah, Reverend Spellgood for being a zealot and for, you know, leading a mindless flock or whatever it is, right? You know, he thinks.

• 1:34:27Griffin Newman?

  But that's what he really hates is that he has followers.

• 1:34:29David Sims?

  Well, right, but I'm like, but you're doing the exact same thing, buddy. You're just right. You're just doing it only to your family because no one else wants to hang out with you.

• 1:34:38Griffin Newman?

  Right. This guy's got to drive in.

• 1:34:40David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:41Griffin Newman?

  He's got people driving in to hear his words.

• 1:34:45David Sims?

  See, my thing reliving off the grid is I don't want to live there off the grid. I want to live on the grid because it has electricity.

• 1:34:51Griffin Newman?

  Well, I was gonna say, you want to live in the literal grid of the world of Tron.

• 1:34:53David Sims?

  Well, that would be nice.

• 1:34:55Griffin Newman?

  Bio-digital jazz.

• 1:34:56Speaker 02

  I'm going to see Tron tonight.

• 1:34:58Griffin Newman?

  Oh, you are?

• 1:34:58Speaker 02

  I was gonna go Monday, but then I went to go see Marty.

• 1:35:00David Sims?

  Right. I of course stuck to my principles and I entered the grid.

• 1:35:04Griffin Newman?

  But mostly for your Oscar watching.

• 1:35:06David Sims?

  Yeah, right. Of course. I was just hearing so much Lido buzz.

• 1:35:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:10David Sims?

  Um, you know, it's a.

• 1:35:12Speaker 02

  You liked it?

• 1:35:12David Sims?

  Well, it's a fucking dumb movie, but it does look cool.

• 1:35:18Speaker 02

  It has light bikes in it.

• 1:35:19David Sims?

  Visually well executed. It's got all the Tron. Stuff.

• 1:35:22Griffin Newman?

  We'll be six months old by the time this comes out.

• 1:35:24David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:35:24Griffin Newman?

  I'm happy to hear that it is watchable.

• 1:35:26David Sims?

  Can I spoil a plot point or do you want to go in cold?

• 1:35:29Speaker 02

  I mean, I'd rather go in cold, but we're podding. Let's just pod.

• 1:35:32David Sims?

  A thing it does that Legacy didn't do, and I love Legacy. I think Legacy is kind of an awesome movie.

• 1:35:38Speaker 02

  Joe Co.

• 1:35:39David Sims?

  Joe Co.

• 1:35:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:40David Sims?

  And I also think Legacy predicted the future of all corporate art. Like it just, it's showing you what will happen.

• 1:35:45Griffin Newman?

  If Joe Co does Fugitive, are we excited?

• 1:35:48David Sims?

  He's doing Miami Vice.

• 1:35:49Griffin Newman?

  I know, but I'm saying down the line.

• 1:35:51Speaker 02

  Eh, kind of. Yeah, that's interesting.

• 1:35:53David Sims?

  I mean, it's like, great. That's a vehicle for a thing you can do.

• 1:35:55Speaker 02

  And it has to be a kind of a technocrat.

• 1:35:58David Sims?

  Right. Like where the vehicles.

• 1:35:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:36:00David Sims?

  What if?

• 1:36:00Speaker 02

  Loves vehicles.

• 1:36:01Griffin Newman?

  What if it's Tron colon fugitive?

• 1:36:03David Sims?

  That sounds good. Um, a thing that it does that is pure nostalgia bait, you know, is that it goes into 1982 Tron.

• 1:36:13Griffin Newman?

  I saw a little bit of this in the trailer and it's the first thing in a year of marketing that has gotten me a little excited for this movie.

• 1:36:19David Sims?

  There is everything in that, you know, sequence is again, like I said, it's just nostalgia stuff, but it is so visually well executed. Yeah. I kind of had to tip my hat to it. And of course that is where you also get Jeff Bridges just burping. You know what I mean? Like Jeff Bridges just being like, yeah, I am your one legacy character at this point, so I will participate. But you're going to get now Bridges.

• 1:36:43Griffin Newman?

  Is he carrying a big barrel of three X's on it?

• 1:36:46David Sims?

  No, but like it's truly me like, how you doing? And I'm like, this is so far from.

• 1:36:52Speaker 02

  Isn't it the same universe as Legacy?

• 1:36:55David Sims?

  It is. It's, it's a direct sequel to Legacy in ways.

• 1:36:58Griffin Newman?

  Part of it. They like point to a picture and say like, he's off doing his own thing.

• 1:37:03Griffin Newman?

  This is my.

• 1:37:04Speaker 02

  He went to the mosquito coast.

• 1:37:05David Sims?

  It's truly that. It's like, as we know, vanished into the ether with Olivia Wilde. They are not really a part of this movie at all.

• 1:37:12Griffin Newman?

  They have a podcast.

• 1:37:13David Sims?

  Uh, and now his company is in, is in the hands of Greta Lee.

• 1:37:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:17David Sims?

  And, uh, who's the villain from the first movie? You know, um, the British guy. I know, but what, what's the character? The guy, David Warner's grandson is, um. Evan Peters.

• 1:37:29Griffin Newman?

  So is Evan Peters playing Killian Murphy's son? Cause remember Killian Murphy is set up as Stark's.

• 1:37:35David Sims?

  Killian Murphy is not acknowledged. Evan Peters is playing Gillian Anderson's son.

• 1:37:40Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:37:41David Sims?

  But he is a Dillinger, much like one. Yes, he is in that. He's, he's from the red guy.

• 1:37:45Griffin Newman?

  Right, Stark Industries, but Dillinger was the.

• 1:37:47David Sims?

  Yeah, but you know how like Tron, it still boils down to the blue guys are good, the red guys are bad. And like, just so you can be sure of that, Evan Peters is in a very red room when he's doing his villainy and so on.

• 1:37:58Griffin Newman?

  Should our bit for 2026? I'm not saying we're retiring Red Hulk. But listeners being like, well, I know they record these episodes months in advance. It's very funny to listen to June episodes that still have Red Hulk talk because they've just seen it or whatever. And then I've seen our listeners get excited as like, it's October, Red Hulk's still in the convo. They're not giving up on his past relevancy. It wasn't just that it was topical. Should Tron Ares be our new added? We continue to talk about Tron Ares for two years.

• 1:38:28David Sims?

  Yeah, please, let's talk about Tron Ares.

• 1:38:30Speaker 02

  I mean, I gotta get a bucket.

• 1:38:32Griffin Newman?

  We got it.

• 1:38:32David Sims?

  I'm sure there will be a very elaborate bucket.

• 1:38:34Griffin Newman?

  Exactly. There are many, the arcade machine, the cabinet.

• 1:38:38David Sims?

  Cool.

• 1:38:38Griffin Newman?

  There's a bucket that's fucking Ares on the cycle and each wheel has its own popcorn.

• 1:38:44Speaker 02

  Bucket tonight.

• 1:38:45Griffin Newman?

  You're getting a bucket.

• 1:38:46David Sims?

  Um, yeah, of course.

• 1:38:47Speaker 02

  Put that in my suitcase.

• 1:38:48Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely.

• 1:38:49David Sims?

  One of the big.

• 1:38:50Griffin Newman?

  The, the arcade one? Which one are you looking at?

• 1:38:52Speaker 02

  Let's just look at the bucket, come on.

• 1:38:53Griffin Newman?

  David, let's look at the bucket.

• 1:38:55David Sims?

  I was just gonna say, uh, one of the big plot points in Ares is of course Jared Leto, an actor we all adore.

• 1:39:01Griffin Newman?

  Normal guy.

• 1:39:02David Sims?

  Uh, right, and a guy we adore.

• 1:39:03Griffin Newman?

  And Ali Fox.

• 1:39:05David Sims?

  Right. Uh, plays a, an AI called Ares that's sort of like a, you know, kind of militaristic.

• 1:39:10Speaker 02

  AI? Yeah, what's that?

• 1:39:14David Sims?

  He's a program.

• 1:39:16Griffin Newman?

  Awesome intellectual is what it is.

• 1:39:18David Sims?

  And the big plot arc of the movie is that he starts to become self-aware and more human and disobey his orders, right? Right. Can you believe it? There's the popcorn bucket.

• 1:39:29Speaker 02

  I'm, I looked at it. I'm getting it.

• 1:39:30Griffin Newman?

  But then did you see the cycle one?

• 1:39:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:33Griffin Newman?

  Where the popcorn, it goes in the two spaces?

• 1:39:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm going to see this movie and then my, my wife and daughter land at nine PM tonight. So imagine.

• 1:39:40David Sims?

  Oh yeah, they're coming in.

• 1:39:41Speaker 02

  The motorcycle and the arcade cabinet being there waiting for her.

• 1:39:44Griffin Newman?

  She was gonna ride that thing.

• 1:39:46Speaker 02

  Oh my God.

• 1:39:47Griffin Newman?

  Um.

• 1:39:47Speaker 02

  Ever.

• 1:39:47Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 1:39:48Speaker 02

  Really more of a motherboard situation right now.

• 1:39:50Griffin Newman?

  Motherboard, motherboard has big Tron vibes though. Motherboard is the tech demon. Yeah.

• 1:39:54Speaker 02

  She does.

• 1:39:55Griffin Newman?

  Do you know that I've been sending Sean's daughter, he-man toys?

• 1:39:57David Sims?

  I did, yeah, no, we've, we've touched on it.

• 1:39:59Griffin Newman?

  Kind of a mensch move, kind of a mensch move.

• 1:40:02David Sims?

  Great stuff, but just to finish my point, Jared Leto at his current level of acting effort, if you guys can reflect on his recent, right, is totally fine playing a robot essentially.

• 1:40:13Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 1:40:14David Sims?

  Is not so good at the, ah, human emotion is beginning to enter, right? Like my feelings are emerging. Uh, that's, that's an issue with the film, I would say. Another issue is that Greta Lee looks like she wants to just like drink poison the whole movie. Uh, you know, everyone's just kinda.

• 1:40:30Speaker 02

  The Leto thing is bewildering though, like that.

• 1:40:32David Sims?

  But it's, we've known. Because, I know.

• 1:40:34Speaker 02

  We've, we've known.

• 1:40:35David Sims?

  This project's been in the works for like nine years.

• 1:40:38Griffin Newman?

  It's like a $200 million movie.

• 1:40:39David Sims?

  And Leto's been attached the whole time and I feel like they've just been like, can we get you? And he's like, no.

• 1:40:44Griffin Newman?

  I, I saw a recent interview with him, recent October 2025, not recent next summer when you're listening to this, where he said, and the timeline's crazier than I thought, they write a more direct Tron Legacy sequel.

• 1:40:58David Sims?

  It was initially, I think, right, like more tied to Tron Legacy.

• 1:41:01Griffin Newman?

  There was a part they offered him in that. He said, no, I'm not interested in this, but this side character you have of Ares, I think is interesting. And then that project fell apart and then they rebooted it, went to him and said, what if we start the script from scratch and that's the main character and it's you? So it's not just that like they wanted him and he'd been attached for so long.

• 1:41:26David Sims?

  And they figured out what to do for him. He wanted to play Ares.

• 1:41:29Griffin Newman?

  Him passing on it, reset the entire project and they redeveloped it around his taste. That's fucking nuts for a guy that no one likes.

• 1:41:41Griffin Newman?

  A man living in a perpetual mosquito coast.

• 1:41:44David Sims?

  It is truly. I will say, and look, this is a somewhat of a spoiler, but not really. Don't worry, guys, because you, again, you're not shocked to learn that Aries becomes more human. By the end of the movie, he's gone from, you know, robot, like your programmed red guy to more of a Jared Leto in real life vibes. And I said that he looked like a sentient feather earring. That is really the vibe. It's just like, it's like, ah, right. What emerged was Jared Leto.

• 1:42:11Speaker 02

  You got me all geeked up for this right now. Can't wait tonight.

• 1:42:14David Sims?

  Jared Leto.

• 1:42:15Speaker 02

  Hot Pocket.

• 1:42:16David Sims?

  Is.

• 1:42:16Speaker 02

  Sitting by myself in an AMC in New York City.

• 1:42:19David Sims?

  Is this, because the film looks like it's gonna kind of do okay. It's gonna do the classic Tron of like, yeah, it opens like 40 million and like, that's all right.

• 1:42:27Griffin Newman?

  Tron just always makes a little less than it needs to.

• 1:42:30David Sims?

  It's a little less than we hoped, but it's not a flop. Between 17 and 27 years, we'll get one more. Yeah. But like, I was, I was about to say, and to bring it full circle, so then are we done with Leto? But I forgot that he's playing Skeletor in fucking the He-Man movie.

• 1:42:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:46David Sims?

  So we're never quite rid of this guy.

• 1:42:48Speaker 02

  Man, fucking pumped for Masters of the.

• 1:42:50Griffin Newman?

  I am sure.

• 1:42:51David Sims?

  Travis Knight, not bad.

• 1:42:53Speaker 02

  Funniest moment of CinemaCon by far with Amanda in April, which will now be one year hence.

• 1:42:58Griffin Newman?

  You and Matt Bellamy crying and Amanda just being befuddled.

• 1:43:02Speaker 02

  But just as soon as they, they show the, the logo, I was like, god damn it.

• 1:43:07Griffin Newman?

  The sword looks right.

• 1:43:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. And she was just so embarrassed.

• 1:43:10Griffin Newman?

  Also, all the other casting in that is great. Alison Brie and Idris Elba are like kind of fucking spot on.

• 1:43:16David Sims?

  I'm a big Veronica from Riverdale fan. She's in.

• 1:43:21Griffin Newman?

  Camila Mendes is Tila.

• 1:43:22Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:43:23Griffin Newman?

  A very important character.

• 1:43:24Speaker 02

  Tila huge in my home.

• 1:43:25Griffin Newman?

  Tila rules.

• 1:43:26David Sims?

  Idris Elba is gonna play like kind of like a dad guy. I don't know anything about He-Man.

• 1:43:30Griffin Newman?

  Don't say kind of a dad guy.

• 1:43:32Speaker 02

  He-Man is the originating character for my interest.

• 1:43:37David Sims?

  For you.

• 1:43:37Speaker 02

  In IP genre storytelling. It is the first thing that I fell in love with.

• 1:43:42David Sims?

  I mean, you know what it is for me, right?

• 1:43:43Griffin Newman?

  What?

• 1:43:44David Sims?

  I don't know. And I'm just wondering if you know.

• 1:43:46Griffin Newman?

  Oh, oh, oh, not what He-Man means to you. What was that for you?

• 1:43:49David Sims?

  Doesn't mean anything to me sadly.

• 1:43:50Griffin Newman?

  Trek?

• 1:43:51David Sims?

  Sort of, but no. X-Men. It's very much X-Men. Yeah, like, like, that was the first thing for me where like my six or seven year old brain was like, I'm engaging with a property, with a world, with a bunch of characters, not just with like, whatever, a simple narrative.

• 1:44:05Speaker 02

  I like X-Men. I can't wait for. Them to kind of ruin it.

• 1:44:11David Sims?

  Them to do like, oh, pretty good.

• 1:44:12Speaker 02

  That was okay.

• 1:44:13David Sims?

  Yeah, like, right, like, yeah, that's sort of the ceiling there.

• 1:44:16Griffin Newman?

  I just, again, I don't, I don't have much faith in their ability to do anything anymore.

• 1:44:23David Sims?

  I think they, I know, I see, I have total faith in their ability to produce something that is pushing my like kid buttons and, you know, elicits like a six out of 10 response.

• 1:44:33Griffin Newman?

  I think the big.

• 1:44:34David Sims?

  Right, like they'll be in the costumes, they'll, they'll obey the comics a little more and so like.

• 1:44:40Griffin Newman?

  But I think we're living in the wreckage of this issue, which is the more they do that, the more they create a cul-de-sac where there's no actual space to move forward.

• 1:44:49David Sims?

  Possibly, I mean.

• 1:44:51Griffin Newman?

  This is the Deadpool and Wolverine problem. This is them hitting hard, like, who can we bring back? How do we make them look more like the cartoons? This is where X-Men 97 kind of fucked them. ARP and I talk about this a lot, but they clearly thought X-Men 97 was like a throw off for the nerds.

• 1:45:06David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:07Griffin Newman?

  And then that's the best received thing they've done in like five years. And now they're like, fuck, this is what people want. This is not forward thinking. Bringing all the old people back and putting them in Jim Lee costumes is going to be really exciting for Doomsday.

• 1:45:20David Sims?

  That'd be cute.

• 1:45:22Griffin Newman?

  Fuck them in terms of resetting X-Men.

• 1:45:25David Sims?

  I mean, I agree that it's, uh, yeah, it's risky.

• 1:45:27Griffin Newman?

  Cause they're doing a double pop of, hey, remember those actors from 20 years ago? And remember the comics and cartoons from 20 years.

• 1:45:34David Sims?

  In the Jim Lee Cyclops costume or whatever.

• 1:45:37Griffin Newman?

  So then when they put Patrick Schwarzenegger in a new costume.

• 1:45:40David Sims?

  Yeah, it sounds good. I'm gonna mine because all those guys are old.

• 1:45:44Speaker 02

  I'm like, I need the latex to be tighter and brighter. This is my whole thing with these movies.

• 1:45:49David Sims?

  I'm not going to see Marsden as like whatever 90 Cyclops and be like, great, 10 more of these. I'm probably going to see and be like, I'm glad Marsden put the costume on and I'm bidding him a fond farewell.

• 1:46:03Griffin Newman?

  He's gonna take away from the next Cyclops though, in the same way that like Jackman re-upping. You're like, at some point, someone else is going to play Wolverine. If it had been, he was off the court for 10 years and then a guy gets to come to it fresh, it's fine, but bring. Bringing all these people back for one last hurrah just reminds you. And then they're bringing them back in the way that's like, and this is what Fox wouldn't let them do 20 years ago. And now all the new people are gonna have to exist in the shadow. It's the same thing as all the theories that like, is, is Downey Jr. Doom a multiversal thing? And at the end of it, there will be a new neutral Doom, who is the actual Doom in the Fantastic Four universe? And I'm like, well, then that Doom sucks. I don't care about second Doom.

• 1:46:43David Sims?

  But you're, you're doing hypotheticals.

• 1:46:45Griffin Newman?

  All these things, though.

• 1:46:45David Sims?

  Yeah, who knows? Right? I don't know what they're gonna do.

• 1:46:48Speaker 02

  This is gonna seem very quaint when they cut this out of this episode.

• 1:46:51David Sims?

  Because is that movie coming out next year?

• 1:46:55Griffin Newman?

  Doomsday?

• 1:46:55David Sims?

  No, two years from now.

• 1:46:56Speaker 02

  Two years.

• 1:46:56David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:57Speaker 02

  They pushed it?

• 1:46:57David Sims?

  A year from like Christmas 27. Right, right. It's, it's still a long time.

• 1:47:01Griffin Newman?

  So is?

• 1:47:03David Sims?

  No, it's Christmas 26.

• 1:47:04Speaker 02

  It's Edo Coast to Thanksgiving 27 and then X-Men.

• 1:47:08David Sims?

  Ali Fox, I need you to distract Thanos.

• 1:47:11Griffin Newman?

  Didn't they push Doomsday though?

• 1:47:12David Sims?

  Doomsday is, um, uh, Christmas of this year, 2026.

• 1:47:16Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:47:17David Sims?

  When this episode is coming out.

• 1:47:18Griffin Newman?

  And Spider-Man is next summer? Is summer 26?

• 1:47:21David Sims?

  Is this summer, Griffin. It's 2026.

• 1:47:24Speaker 02

  My birthday movie of 2026.

• 1:47:26Griffin Newman?

  And those are the only two things they have next year?

• 1:47:27David Sims?

  I believe so.

• 1:47:29Griffin Newman?

  By next year, I mean this year.

• 1:47:30David Sims?

  This year. Right. But those are two big things.

• 1:47:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:33David Sims?

  A new Spider-Man movie and Avengers Doomsday.

• 1:47:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:36David Sims?

  Those are, it's about as big as they got, right? I mean, yeah, so.

• 1:47:41Speaker 02

  I'm thinking about seeing it. I think I'm gonna see him. I'll check him out.

• 1:47:43David Sims?

  I think I'll see him.

• 1:47:44Speaker 02

  I'll be there. When's the last Marvel movie you saw?

• 1:47:47Speaker 03

  Well, I just had COVID. Like, a couple of weeks ago.

• 1:47:51Speaker 02

  You have COVID?

• 1:47:51Speaker 03

  No, a couple of weeks ago. I just had COVID though, somewhat recently.

• 1:47:55Griffin Newman?

  When you go to the bathroom, think of me.

• 1:47:58Speaker 03

  And so normally I'll just, um, binge and catch up on, on the Marvel franchise.

• 1:48:05Speaker 02

  Every time you get COVID, that's what you do?

• 1:48:07Speaker 03

  No, just anytime I'm sick. I'm sorry.

• 1:48:08Griffin Newman?

  You just gotta work it through your system.

• 1:48:10Speaker 02

  That would create some odd associations with the Marvel brand.

• 1:48:13Griffin Newman?

  I think those are already the kind of associations Ben has.

• 1:48:16Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:48:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I just, I, I'm someone who.

• 1:48:20Griffin Newman?

  Phases and variants are very tight in his mind.

• 1:48:22Speaker 03

  I find it to be junk food and it's just like something where I can just shut my brain off and just spend the next, you know, half a day watching all of these movies.

• 1:48:31Speaker 02

  Who's your favorite Marvel superhero?

• 1:48:33Speaker 03

  Whoa, that's a

• 1:48:35Griffin Newman?

  In the movies or anywhere?

• 1:48:36Speaker 02

  Can I pitch a possibility? The Punisher? Where are you at on the Punisher?

• 1:48:41Speaker 03

  See, the Punisher, though, is too, like, republican.

• 1:48:43Griffin Newman?

  Now, now, he's been claimed by the wrong people. I feel like you grew up loving Punisher.

• 1:48:47Speaker 03

  I've read some Punisher comments.

• 1:48:49Griffin Newman?

  You invoke the Punisher's van a lot that you like that he has a van.

• 1:48:52Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, he has a van.

• 1:48:53Speaker 03

  I'm a big fan of the van.

• 1:48:54Speaker 02

  It's just full of guns, though.

• 1:48:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know, but it's still, it's cool as hell.

• 1:48:57Speaker 02

  It's cool as hell. He's got a skull, the skull.

• 1:49:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:49:01Speaker 02

  One of the great logos, the Punisher, Frank Castle.

• 1:49:04Speaker 03

  And he's got a fucking trench coat.

• 1:49:05Griffin Newman?

  But you know who Ben's number one guy is? Spawn.

• 1:49:09Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:49:09Speaker 03

  Yeah. But his number one

• 1:49:10Griffin Newman?

  The skull to the next

• 1:49:11Speaker 03

  Oh, well, I was gonna say Ghost Rider, which is sort of like

• 1:49:14Speaker 02

  Oh, Ghost Rider, yes.

• 1:49:16Griffin Newman?

  Very hozly.

• 1:49:17Speaker 03

  He's so hoz- yes, okay, that makes sense. They circling like a new Ghost Rider or something like? I feel like that comes up every so often.

• 1:49:24Griffin Newman?

  Once a year, they're like, Ryan Gosling is definitely playing Ghost Rider, and then nothing comes of it.

• 1:49:29Speaker 03

  Can I say who my favorite villain is?

• 1:49:31Griffin Newman?

  Please.

• 1:49:31Speaker 03

  Juggernaut.

• 1:49:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:33Speaker 03

  And I don't think they've really captured Juggernaut properly.

• 1:49:36Speaker 02

  You didn't find Vinnie Jones getting the Gestalt of Juggernaut?

• 1:49:39Speaker 03

  He's gotta be huge.

• 1:49:41Speaker 02

  I mean, I remember him being large in the film.

• 1:49:43Speaker 03

  No, I need his ass to be fucking giant. I need him to be like nine feet tall.

• 1:49:47Speaker 02

  Deadpool 2 has a giant

• 1:49:49Speaker 03

  Animated series.

• 1:49:50Speaker 02

  He's very large.

• 1:49:51Griffin Newman?

  Deadpool 2 has a giant CGI juggernaut that I would say kind of sucks, but does get the size.

• 1:49:56Speaker 02

  I forgot about, I really forgot about.

• 1:49:58Speaker 03

  I still, more, Ben.

• 1:50:01Speaker 02

  Well, I don't think Ben saw Deadpool 2.

• 1:50:02Speaker 03

  No, I did.

• 1:50:03Griffin Newman?

  And you forgot already.

• 1:50:05Speaker 03

  No, I just, it didn't live up to

• 1:50:08Griffin Newman?

  It was my expectation. Are you fully up?

• 1:50:10Speaker 02

  Deadpool 2, good. Deadpool, good.

• 1:50:13Griffin Newman?

  Really? Yeah, you forget that Sean

• 1:50:15Speaker 02

  I genuinely am a pro Deadpool. I feel like it's one of the only comic book movies that actually got the comic right.

• 1:50:21Griffin Newman?

  Does nothing for me.

• 1:50:22Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:50:23Griffin Newman?

  Although I will say, and Ben, you're gonna have to cut this out.

• 1:50:26Speaker 02

  Right, yes.

• 1:50:27Griffin Newman?

  I've heard like a crazy industry rumor, and maybe this has come out by the time this episode has come out.

• 1:50:31Speaker 03

  You should say this kind of stuff on air, Chris.

• 1:50:33Griffin Newman?

  If it hasn't come out, or it's proven false, by the time the episode's released, we can cut it out.

• 1:50:38Speaker 03

  I'm really stressed out.

• 1:50:39Griffin Newman?

  I've heard that Deadpool knows that he's in Hummus.

• 1:50:40Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:50:42Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 1:50:43Griffin Newman?

  That he knows that he's read the script. He knows there's an audience watching him. He knows what studio is releasing the movie and which studios they have acquired.

• 1:50:51Speaker 02

  Does he know who runs the studio?

• 1:50:53Griffin Newman?

  He knows who runs the studio.

• 1:50:54Speaker 02

  I think the better way to put it is.

• 1:50:55Griffin Newman?

  He knows the notes they're gonna have. He knows that he's played by an actor and what other movies that actor's been.

• 1:51:00Speaker 02

  Does he, does Ryan Reynolds exist in the same universe as Deadpool?

• 1:51:05Griffin Newman?

  Sean, are you, I know you're sitting down, but sit down twice as hard.

• 1:51:09Speaker 02

  Sit into the ground somehow.

• 1:51:11Griffin Newman?

  Ryan Reynolds not only exists, but Deadpool has some thoughts on some of Ryan Reynolds' previous career choices. I swear to you.

• 1:51:18David Sims?

  Deadpool one, he knows he's in a movie. Deadpool two, he knows he's in a cinematic universe. Deadpool three, he knows he's been added to a new cinema. Like, those are the evolutions of like the Deadpool myth. Right? Yes. He knows he's the multiverse.

• 1:51:29Speaker 02

  And in Deadpool four, he will have a podcast.

• 1:51:31Griffin Newman?

  He will. And he'll take us all down.

• 1:51:34David Sims?

  Good.

• 1:51:35Speaker 02

  But yeah, I just met Red Hulk.

• 1:51:37Griffin Newman?

  You're fully up to date now.

• 1:51:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:39David Sims?

  You saw Thunderbolts?

• 1:51:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, which was fine. I don't know.

• 1:51:43David Sims?

  Has there been something since Thunderbolts?

• 1:51:44Griffin Newman?

  Fantastic Four is not on Disney Plus yet.

• 1:51:46David Sims?

  Right. You haven't, you haven't met the Fantastic. You haven't taken your first.

• 1:51:49Speaker 02

  Theaters for that one. No, I haven't.

• 1:51:51Griffin Newman?

  That is, I do have to say, one of the worst subtitles of all time. I know we hashed out that movie on a couple Patreon episodes.

• 1:51:58David Sims?

  Relate to the film very much.

• 1:51:59Speaker 02

  Doesn't, yeah.

• 1:52:00Griffin Newman?

  I was.

• 1:52:01Speaker 02

  Is it Galactus's first steps on Earth?

• 1:52:03Griffin Newman?

  I was so ready. I thought the dumb thing at the end of the movie was gonna be Franklin taking his first steps and that's why they called it that. And they don't even do that.

• 1:52:10Speaker 02

  That would have been good. But like, given what we've learned about that movie. It would have been something.

• 1:52:14David Sims?

  It feels like maybe that was in it and they cut it out. Like they cut out a lot.

• 1:52:18Griffin Newman?

  Was steps.

• 1:52:19David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:52:31Griffin Newman?

  The Mosquito Coast is a movie about a man who hates the type of conversation we're having in this room right now.

• 1:52:36Speaker 02

  Oh, you don't think Ally would like the MCU?

• 1:52:38David Sims?

  Stop talking about when I walked out.

• 1:52:41Speaker 02

  It's an absolute sin to accept the decadence of obsolescence. Why do things get worse and worse? They don't have to. They could get better and better. We accept things that fall apart. That could be Allie Fox on America in the 1980s or me on the MCU.

• 1:52:58Griffin Newman?

  It is very similar. The tone's a little different, but the words are the same.

• 1:53:02David Sims?

  I'm just like, make me a grilled cheese sandwich. I'm hungry. I don't want to deal with.

• 1:53:06Griffin Newman?

  I think Ford is like so goodness and it is tied to what you're saying that he's one of the best on screen yellers. And even when he's not fully raising his voice, he's so good at saying the thing with intensity and the pointing.

• 1:53:19David Sims?

  You definitely believe as much as this guy's tough hang to begin with him. He is not bullshitting like he believes what he think, right? Like he's deep in it.

• 1:53:27Griffin Newman?

  To the end of the line.

• 1:53:28David Sims?

  He's not just some con artist who's like, yay, I actually just wanted to live on the mosquito coast. And this is how I justify it. He thinks this is what he has to be.

• 1:53:35Griffin Newman?

  It's what makes the movie.

• 1:53:36David Sims?

  And he thinks he has to lie to his family eventually about like the world.

• 1:53:39Griffin Newman?

  It's what makes the performance work. I, I think you see in Ford that he plays the calculation in his mind. It's a three second decision of, I'm going to tell them the world has been nuked. And it's not, you know, John Lovett's liar panicking. It is like.

• 1:53:57David Sims?

  Now Lovett's in this role is an interesting concept.

• 1:53:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, see?

• 1:54:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:01Speaker 02

  Decade of.

• 1:54:04David Sims?

  Nuclear war. Yeah.

• 1:54:07Griffin Newman?

  Made in Japan.

• 1:54:08David Sims?

  Yeah. A missionary, you see? It would be good.

• 1:54:17Griffin Newman?

  Um, it's in those three seconds. I think Ford plays, this is actually the only move. And this is the best thing I can do as a father and as a husband. He's deranged, but he fully believes is to the benefit of his family to tell them that the outside world is no longer an option.

• 1:54:35Speaker 02

  So I rewatched the Siskel and Ebert episode where they reviewed this movie and they had a fairly.

• 1:54:40David Sims?

  Ebert was very negative on this.

• 1:54:41Speaker 02

  He was very negative on this film. They had a, they, it may come to surprise you to learn that they had a techy exchange.

• 1:54:46David Sims?

  Wait a second. What?

• 1:54:48Speaker 02

  And.

• 1:54:49David Sims?

  They lived on the mosquito coast.

• 1:54:51Speaker 02

  Ebert out, right? Ebert out because he finds this to be a very unlikable character.

• 1:54:56David Sims?

  He found the whole movie just like a slog.

• 1:54:58Griffin Newman?

  He said Ali Fox is a bore.

• 1:55:00David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:00Griffin Newman?

  Like he praised Harrison Ford for doing his job well, but was like, I don't want to hang with this character.

• 1:55:05Speaker 02

  Good performances. It looks good, but not a good hang. Siskel's, Siskel likes it more. He doesn't love it, but he is compelled by the idea of noble wishes gone astray, that, that there is something.

• 1:55:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:20Speaker 02

  Him looking for, and he, he, as he often did, directly connects it to the optimism and hope in the movement of the sixties.

• 1:55:30Griffin Newman?

  Sure, of course.

• 1:55:31Speaker 02

  And saying like.

• 1:55:32David Sims?

  It's a curdling.

• 1:55:33Speaker 02

  Yes, there's something, and Ali Fox, you could see as a man who was probably educated at that time, as someone who's, you know, participating in various social movements, and there being a lot of hope about what could happen in the world. And I, I kind of liked that reading. I hadn't thought about the movie in that way. And, you know, I think also Siskel is just doing a little bit of performative jousting for the sake of the cameras, which is something that happens sometimes.

• 1:55:55Griffin Newman?

  Wouldn't know.

• 1:55:56Speaker 02

  Uh, but I, I, that does help me accept him a little bit more, you know, that he's been a bit broken by, he actually does believe that this, this commercial hellscape that America is transforming into before his eyes is completely corroding his soul and driving him to the brink of a kind of madness. I don't know if it makes him a fun movie character, but it makes him a more acceptable person.

• 1:56:20David Sims?

  But it's, that's Ebert's thing probably of like Ebert did at fun at the end of the day, have that Hollywood brain of like, but you know, how do you, you're not keeping me involved in the story. This isn't entertaining.

• 1:56:30Griffin Newman?

  I wish he was more of a mall cop that I could, uh, fucked up my own.

• 1:56:35David Sims?

  Just go right ahead. Just take as long as you want.

• 1:56:37Griffin Newman?

  Roger Ebert's four star Paul Blart mall cop review where he's just like, am I crazy? This movie's good. Why do none of you get this? And he talks about the cinematic, the visual language of Paul Blart. And he's like, this is made by a real filmmaker. I can root for this guy. I think it's Steve Carr, maybe?

• 1:56:57David Sims?

  Okay. I wanted to, to defend Ebert. He gave it three stars, not four, but he did call it, he did, this is a great lead by him. Paul Blart Mall Cop is a slapstick comedy with a hero who's a nice guy. I thought that wasn't allowed anymore. And I sort of know what he means in terms of like, it's like the very dirtbaggy brat pack guys are sort of kings of comedy then. The Rogan, you know, Seth Rogen, uh, Judd Apatow, you know, that's, and Paul Blart is like, yeah, this guy's fucking, he's a mall cop. He just wants to protect the mall. He's all right.

• 1:57:26Speaker 02

  It's a John Candy movie, right?

• 1:57:27David Sims?

  Yeah, that was Kevin James's thing.

• 1:57:29Griffin Newman?

  The headline of this review is Lone Rider of the Purple Segway.

• 1:57:33David Sims?

  I like it. I like it. Ebert popping off. Should Daniel Craig someday retire? I'm supporting Kevin James for the next James Bond is his kicker. I don't know where I am with him on that.

• 1:57:43Griffin Newman?

  But excuse me, the paragraph leading into that is Paul Blart emerges as a hero and something else, colon, Kevin James illustrates how lighting and camera angles can affect our perception of an actor. In the early scenes, he's a fat schlub, but after he goes into action, the camera lowers subtly, the lighting changes and suddenly he's a good looking action hero, ready for business.

• 1:58:06David Sims?

  This is a little bit like Roger Ebert seeing the train coming to the station and being like, whoa, I think it's coming into the movie theater. It's like, Roger, yes, we know you can shoot guys more heroically or less.

• 1:58:17Griffin Newman?

  Well, why does he feel this way? The next sentence might illustrate it. He demonstrates what fat men have been, have secretly believed for a long time.

• 1:58:26Speaker 02

  May have just given away the game a little bit too much.

• 1:58:28Griffin Newman?

  A little bit.

• 1:58:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:58:30David Sims?

  Much like, as I love to cite every review that he ever had of a Jennifer Lopez movie. He's just like, there's something about this lady. I can't put my finger on it.

• 1:58:38Speaker 02

  She's got something.

• 1:58:39David Sims?

  But I want to put my finger on it.

• 1:58:40Griffin Newman?

  I can't put my finger. It would take two handfuls.

• 1:58:45Griffin Newman?

  Full bear claws.

• 1:58:46Speaker 02

  You know, that, that is interesting that you say that too, because Raj, historically a boob man, you know, but just that's, if you read his work closely, as I have.

• 1:58:56David Sims?

  Certainly.

• 1:58:56Speaker 02

  He, not just the female form, of course, an admirer of the female form, but he, he, he like, the man likes breasts. That's what I'm saying.

• 1:59:03Griffin Newman?

  But I think to continue Sims' analogy, the first time he saw Jennifer Lopez on screen, it was like the caboose backing into the station and suddenly his worldview was rewritten. Sean, to throw out a fantasyism. I think what you've identified is part of what I really connect to in this movie. One of my go to, I'm locked in thematic strains of stories is what you're saying. The, the kind of idealism gone amok, right? And especially if it's coming from a place of like a semi earned jaded frustration with what is wrong. And I think a lot of other movies that attempt this kind of story.

• 1:59:47Griffin Newman?

  The stakes are lower, right? It's something like a movie I love is Tucker, A Man in His Dreams, which is like

• 1:59:54Speaker 02

  Great movie.

• 1:59:55Griffin Newman?

  Telling that kind

• 1:59:56Speaker 02

  Pretty similar movie.

• 1:59:56Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely.

• 1:59:57Speaker 02

  In much gentler form, but you're watching someone just get a not get out of his own way.

• 2:00:02Griffin Newman?

  But I think there are a lot of movies like that where they pick a very small, earthbound prism of why do cars have to suck? What if a guy tried to make a better car and this is how the world knocks him down? And that's really easy to get your head around, right? And then there are things that abstract it like Megalopolis and Sinectica, New York, where it goes into the fantastic and you get to become more allegorical. And what I like about Mosquito Coast is it feels like something that would be a true story. While the stakes are about as high as they could be, the fact that it is not a true story and is a pure fictional invention makes me not feel as uncomfortable as I would probably feel if I were watching this movie and knowing that real people died or whatever, you know?

• 2:00:46Griffin Newman?

  But yet it's like the scale of his ambition is so grand that I I just immediately get sucked into that, even if I'm never on his side. I like that kind of idea.

• 2:00:59Speaker 02

  I do think that there's something about a movie like this coming out at this time that also felt very unacceptable. Because if you if you look at the if you look at a lot of the writing about the novel, it situates it in this long arc of kind of historical, American, wayward men, you know? It's like it's Robinson Crusoe and so is Family Robinson. But then it's also, you know, Heart of Darkness, Walden, Moby Dick, like these there are allusions to all of these figures and all of these worlds. And, you know, those are complex, at times unlikable protagonist figures in those stories. And that's not really what

• 2:01:41Speaker 02

  Eddie Murphy and Mel Gibson were up to by 1986. That's not what the American movie star was expected to pursue. And so I think that there, there's like, there's a lot being held against it because it refuses, even with the biggest star on the planet, to give you one ounce of, of fun, of the fun that Roger Ebert wants from the movie.

• 2:02:00Griffin Newman?

  I also think the anti-heroes of this era were also rooted in fun. It was a sort of like, wouldn't it be fun to just be able to like, fucking take a machine gun to the baddies? For, for conflicts to be this clean cut, for you to be able to be the guy with the snarky one-liner, you know, even as there's a rise of these guys who are not playing conventional clean-cut hero, it is more the raging id of like, throttled masculinity.

• 2:02:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, Travis Bickle, right? Travis Bickle is crazy. So then we can just, we can assign his insanity to his actions.

• 2:02:37Griffin Newman?

  And Travis Bickle is a cautionary tale that within 10 years turns into like, the sequel Rambo.

• 2:02:42Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:02:43Griffin Newman?

  Where now it's just pure power fantasy.

• 2:02:45Speaker 02

  Right. And this is not that. This is, this guy's an asshole.

• 2:02:47Griffin Newman?

  And he's wrong.

• 2:02:48Speaker 02

  But he's still somebody's dad, you know, he's still just like, kind of a dude, you know, he's not, he's not a, he does ultimately do very destructive things and pays for it. But two-thirds through, through the movie, you're like, this guy's a little pretty nuts, but like, he is still.

• 2:03:02Griffin Newman?

  He is human.

• 2:03:02Speaker 02

  Someone's family man.

• 2:03:03Griffin Newman?

  He remains earthbound. And he does not ever become like, a venging anti-hero.

• 2:03:10David Sims?

  He's fucking handy, too. It's impressive. Early on, it's working. He's handy, right? But, so, so he builds the ice machine to get us, you know, through the pot a little bit.

• 2:03:20Griffin Newman?

  It's the cornerstone of his new society. We're gonna have ice.

• 2:03:23David Sims?

  We can supply ice. He's made a greenhouse. Like, it's working. But when a bunch of, um, you know, essentially armed men from a near village show up, uh, he's not great at the whole interpersonal stuff.

• 2:03:38Griffin Newman?

  No, never has been.

• 2:03:39David Sims?

  Exactly. So he goes for, hey, guys, you gotta leave, there's a lot of ants everywhere. That doesn't work. So then he pivots right to, I'll freeze them to death in my ice building.

• 2:03:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. He, he considers going full-on Mr. Freeze mode, which is, has rarely worked out for anyone. Least of all, Mr. Freeze.

• 2:03:59David Sims?

  True.

• 2:04:00Griffin Newman?

  Often a sad ending for that man.

• 2:04:02David Sims?

  So true. Uh, Mr. Freeze is very tragic.

• 2:04:05Speaker 03

  Pretty bad scheme.

• 2:04:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:06Speaker 03

  It's a, when you see what happens.

• 2:04:08David Sims?

  It's a bad fucking scheme.

• 2:04:10Speaker 02

  It doesn't really work out very well. And he doesn't consider that the destruction of the centerpiece of his new civilization could be problematic.

• 2:04:18Griffin Newman?

  It is the, it is the other part of this movie that I find pretty, uh, topically, uh, currently powerful. Is the notion of these guys who are like, if you just let me in there, I know how to fix this. I have the right ideas and they start out with three ideas and then the first conflict happens. The first thing they have to adjust from their original plan and they short circuit.

• 2:04:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's also that thing too of like the ultimate freedom idea, right? And then what ends up happening is there's some kind of violent conflict. And it immediately kind of all falls apart because it's just inherent to human nature.

• 2:04:56David Sims?

  He, he's also gone to a place where everyone kind of wants to do their own thing. And that's hard. It's hard to coexist with other people trying to do maybe a very different thing.

• 2:05:04Speaker 02

  Also his, you know, the thing that is revealed clearly in two different ways is that this is ultimately a very pampered, middle-class American. You know, that this is a guy who has no idea what he's getting himself into. And that includes encountering a militia force in a land that he doesn't understand and also nature. And those two things combining, and he thinks that those things will work in his favor, that there will be space to move in a land where he's not encumbered by the modes of society that America has built. But also that he's like, I'm a smart guy and I know how to make ice. So I'll be able to handle it when we have mosquitoes. But he doesn't know, he doesn't know shit. The, the whole thing is that everybody who thinks they know what they're doing and that they should take over are full of shit.

• 2:05:46Griffin Newman?

  Agreed. Uh, also much like Survivor, people get off the boat. They look great. They're all shiny. They're TV ready. Then like day three, they unlock a new kind of rugged hot. And they're like, oh, I don't have to give in all these conventions of Western beauty. I'm going on natural. They've dropped the baby fat. Right. By day 10, everyone looks fucking horrible. And it's not just that like their skin's bitten up and they have a weird inconsistent burn. And their like body weight is getting distributed in weird ways, but also they're like behind the eyes. Everyone's losing it. Yes, I've had six scoops of rice in nine days. This is one of the most handsome movie stars in history at the peak of his hotness. And you have the same thing where he starts out and you're like, man, this dick is kinda hot.

• 2:06:29Griffin Newman?

  This asshole is kind of compelling to look at. And then like day three, you're like, the dirt kinda looks good on him. Getting a little rugged. And by the end of the movie, you're like, this guy's uncomfortable. Yeah, everyone's ass is stinking. Oh, it's a real stinky butt movie.

• 2:06:44David Sims?

  This is a stinky. I, I bet it smell nasty in there movie.

• 2:06:48Speaker 02

  I do. No matter where I go, I need plumbing. I need hot water.

• 2:06:52David Sims?

  Again, guys, it's, I am with the, the least off-grid folks around, including me.

• 2:06:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Toilet situation. Oh, it like Japanese toilet.

• 2:07:03David Sims?

  Right, exactly. You need a toilet that like sings to you and heats you. Sean, what you're talking about is

• 2:07:08Griffin Newman?

  Holds me in its arms.

• 2:07:09David Sims?

  The masked New Yorker going to Hudson Valley Adirondacks where

• 2:07:13Speaker 02

  I went a little farther away, though. I wanna make it impossible to go back to from whence I came. But still in the contiguous United States, you know what I mean?

• 2:07:22David Sims?

  Well, then it's never gonna be possible.

• 2:07:24Speaker 02

  Hop in the car and drive to a screening room in Beverly Hills where I spend way too much time in my life.

• 2:07:29Griffin Newman?

  Like, this is my exact same fantasy, except I know I could never actually do it.

• 2:07:32Speaker 02

  I don't, I, I'm not going to either. But that's why we're talking about it on the podcast.

• 2:07:36David Sims?

  I would say I'm more, I'll go to, you know, the countryside, the woods, the rural places and all.

• 2:07:42Speaker 02

  Could you outdoors it?

• 2:07:44David Sims?

  What, what are we talking about outdoors again?

• 2:07:46Speaker 02

  Well, you asked me. I'm asking you.

• 2:07:47David Sims?

  Like, like, so like, you know, and I rent like a cabin, like, you know. So we got heat, we got running water.

• 2:07:53Speaker 02

  Have you camped?

• 2:07:54David Sims?

  I don't like camping. I haven't really camped since I was a teenager.

• 2:07:57Speaker 02

  Camping's fun.

• 2:07:58David Sims?

  No.

• 2:07:58Speaker 02

  I don't mind people who camp. It's just not really my thing. And it is my wife's favorite thing. It's like, it is the

• 2:08:04David Sims?

  Did she grow up doing it? Like, is it kinda sorta?

• 2:08:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, she's much more outdoorsy than I am, but I, it is the one of the You and I are so similar in many ways, but the, the beach and camping are two things where I'm just like, they should be exploded from the planet. Like, I have no idea how these things are so popular.

• 2:08:22David Sims?

  You do this.

• 2:08:23Speaker 02

  No, no, no. Well, I'll tell your wife. My wife, thankfully, not a huge beach person. I live in California.

• 2:08:28David Sims?

  I imagine you're.

• 2:08:29Speaker 02

  Go to the sun.

• 2:08:30David Sims?

  What's so funny about Sean? I love the beach. I spend as much time on the beach as I can. But Sean, you live in California, in LA, Los Angeles.

• 2:08:38Speaker 02

  I live very far away from the beach.

• 2:08:39David Sims?

  Right. Right. And I know there's a lot of people that are like, do you get to the beach? And they're like, what? It's like an hour from where I live.

• 2:08:46Griffin Newman?

  I had friends trying to convince me to go to Burning Man. I think people attempt every couple of years. And I was talking about it to my girlfriend.

• 2:08:55David Sims?

  You would actually die.

• 2:08:57Griffin Newman?

  I, I was saying to her, I was like, you know this as well as anybody who spends a lot of time with me. The three things I care about the most in the world are sleeping in a proper bed, having a shower with no limits, and a real functional toilet. And if you take those three things out of my ecosystem, I collapse. I basically can't exist with two out of three. If one of those things is in peril, I'm fucked.

• 2:09:22Speaker 02

  I would never go to, here's my quick Burning Man story. Okay. I was an editor at Grantland in the 2010s. And my friend Rembert Brown did a series called Rembert Explains America. And he drove around America and he went to just different places. So he would go to a, a giant thimble. And he'd be like, why is this thimble in Iowa? But then he would also go to more well-known landmarks. And one of the, the stops on his trip was to go to Burning Man. And he went to Burning Man for a few days. And he had been filing these pieces, these kind of long, digressive blog posts about his journeys. And I was, I was an editor of frankly, too many writers at that time. But I was writing, I was editing a lot of raw copy every day. So I was looking at thousands and thousands of works every

• 2:10:06Speaker 02

  day, trying to get them on the internet. And Rem. Filed his piece via text message with no punctuation.

• 2:10:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:10:14David Sims?

  Only remembered because he was at Burning Man.

• 2:10:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:10:16Speaker 02

  There's no internet, there's no laptops, nothing works.

• 2:10:19Griffin Newman?

  You gotta get the sentiments out there as quickly as you can.

• 2:10:21Speaker 02

  He wrote it in a note on his phone and copy and pasted it and sent it to me. And I spent three hours formatting this godforsaken piece.

• 2:10:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:30Speaker 02

  And just because of that, I would never even consider going to Burning Man.

• 2:10:35Griffin Newman?

  Makes perfect sense to me. I track that logic so cleanly.

• 2:10:38David Sims?

  I mean, I, I have friends who, uh, you know, go to Burning Man and evangelize for it. I also am like, no, thanks. Um, but, uh, that's really funny.

• 2:10:46Speaker 03

  Isn't tripping kinda would be fun and the, when they do the effigy burning? That feels like very like.

• 2:10:52Griffin Newman?

  Isn't Burning Man such a wicked, great way to like.

• 2:10:55Speaker 03

  So long.

• 2:10:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Yeah. You spent three hours formatting it.

• 2:10:59Speaker 02

  Dude, I mean, they're all that long. God bless Rem. I love Rem. I loved working on that project with him, but that one in particular, I was like, Rem, can you please? Can we just delete this? Like, do we really have to do this? And he was like, I drove out here.

• 2:11:11Griffin Newman?

  Isn't Burning Man kind of coming out of the same instinct that drives Allie Fox? But how do we build this in a way that is actually communal? And with like the world's strongest bowling alley bumpers?

• 2:11:23Speaker 02

  I was.

• 2:11:23Griffin Newman?

  And then we fucking leave.

• 2:11:25David Sims?

  Well, but the thing with Burning Man that at least as I'm saying is all about community. Cause it's all about, you know, doing it all together. Alley doesn't have a community vibe to me. He doesn't really wanna be with other people.

• 2:11:36Griffin Newman?

  Let me, let me refine this. I'm not saying this in a way that is critical of Burning Man.

• 2:11:40David Sims?

  No, I know that. I don't care about it. Yeah.

• 2:11:42Griffin Newman?

  It's for other people.

• 2:11:43David Sims?

  Sure.

• 2:11:43Griffin Newman?

  But it's more that I feel like when the people I know who, who love it, wax about it, right? What they're speaking about is the same kind of fantasy that Allie Fox has in a certain way. Of like, what if we just stripped all of this back? And we got back to how we're supposed to behave, right? And Burning Man is much more animated by like fun and love and drugs and all this shit. But it is the idea of like, can we just have our alternate version of society for like 10 concentrated days? And then leave is also, you know, become a playground for incredibly rich people, but. It's the same kind of thing. And the part of why it's been able to survive is that it only has the ambition of existing for a week and change a year rather than being like, what if

• 2:12:28Griffin Newman?

  we actually found a new country?

• 2:12:30David Sims?

  My fundamental thing that I was gonna say, by the way, is right. You know, you go upstate, I rent a cabin, I'm drinking coffee, I'm sitting on the porch, I'm like, this rocks, I love.

• 2:12:38Griffin Newman?

  I like one part of what you said, exactly one part, yeah.

• 2:12:41David Sims?

  Uh, you know, I should just move up here, the simpler, just a little slower, it'd be great. I still am like, I mostly would watch movies and cook food. Like, it's not like I'm like, I would work the land. Like, I still want to mostly do the things I like to do. But I think I'm just like, no, this is, I'm being dumb. Like, I think I would get bored. I need friends. I need a lot of social interaction. You know, like, what I get from the city is what I need, or whatever. But um, I have the fantasy. I have zero Mosquito Coast fantasies. I never want to go to the jungle. I have spoken to enough filmmakers who filmed in the jungle to know that the jungle is never your friend, and you cannot conquer it. Every, every guy who goes there is like, I think I know how to deal with the jungle. And then they leave being like, the jungle hit my ass.

• 2:13:21Griffin Newman?

  But David.

• 2:13:21David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:13:22Griffin Newman?

  And this is relevant to our podcast. And with the dossier in front of you.

• 2:13:25David Sims?

  Jungle to jungle.

• 2:13:26Griffin Newman?

  Tell me if I'm wrong about this.

• 2:13:28David Sims?

  Please.

• 2:13:28Griffin Newman?

  This in many ways seems like one of the least dramatic jungle shoots of all time.

• 2:13:35David Sims?

  It doesn't seem like.

• 2:13:36Griffin Newman?

  To Peter Weir's credit.

• 2:13:37David Sims?

  I mean, they call it long, hot, and humid. Like, I don't know that it was like pleasant, but it was definitely not disastrous.

• 2:13:45Griffin Newman?

  Every other jungle shoot I have ever read about was disastrous. As you said, everyone comes out of it and goes.

• 2:13:52David Sims?

  Like, we went 80 days over budget, over schedule, and like, you know, things like that.

• 2:13:57Griffin Newman?

  But most of them are like, right, we tried to kill each other. James Gray is like, that was a disaster. I ruined my life.

• 2:14:03David Sims?

  Peter Weir is used to filming in the outback and in harsh conditions or whatever already. Like, Peter Weir strikes me as someone who can, you know, handle an outdoorsy rugged shoot.

• 2:14:14Griffin Newman?

  I just think this film has an incredible sense of place. I think especially the sound in this film is so effective, the kind of like, um, atmospheric soundscape of the land and the quiet. Uh, and then when that is interrupted, uh, and the photography is so lush, they're using their location so well, that about halfway through, I like stopped myself and I was like, wait. These things are always impossible to film and they are always accompanied with stories of four people had heart attacks. We were kidnapped. My dad drowned to death.

• 2:14:49David Sims?

  We heard gunfire, a town over.

• 2:14:52Griffin Newman?

  Right. Every version of this we've covered, but also like some of the most famously terrible production stories in history. You know, it's Predator and it's Sorcerer and it's Apocalypse Now and it's Lost City of Z and all of these. The best case scenario is we lost our minds. Nothing horrible in a demonstrable way happened to us from the outside, but we all went insane and it was impossible. And this movie is like very steady in what it's doing.

• 2:15:19David Sims?

  Yeah. Um, to wrap the plot, like to get back to the third act of the movie, we talked about the, you know, ice machine blows up, the right, the.

• 2:15:27Griffin Newman?

  Geronimo.

• 2:15:28David Sims?

  Right. The true pivot point into like sort of irredeemable madness is they get to the coast, like you say, and the family is like, thank God we can go home. And he's like, ah, there is no home because there's a nuclear war. I just heard you guys aren't allowed to hear about it. You know, like, and then we're just in full cult of personality madness. We're in the final stages of Jim Jones, like passing out.

• 2:15:50Speaker 02

  His performance is great in that sequence.

• 2:15:52David Sims?

  Yes, it is. Really, really good.

• 2:15:54Speaker 02

  Really scary. It is scary.

• 2:15:56Speaker 03

  We gotta call out Mr. Hattie too.

• 2:15:58David Sims?

  Mr. Hattie, uh, the great Conrad Roberts, uh, who's in like, you know, one of, you know, in a million things, right? And, uh, yeah, uh, he's, he's, uh, sort of a force of sanity to some extent.

• 2:16:12Speaker 03

  He really empathizes with the family.

• 2:16:13David Sims?

  Yes, the kids.

• 2:16:15Speaker 03

  But it's trying to also not go against father.

• 2:16:19Speaker 02

  Right, right, right. And there's a, you know, the, the, all of that is a picture of the paternalistic approach that America had to Central America at this time in history. I mean, this is like at the tail end of Iran-Contra. Um, it's a long history of trying to navigate and invade and manage the, you know, governmental rule of all these countries that are near our borders. Like all of that is a very purposeful, intentional stuff that all comes from through, you know, writing through the way that he sees societies operating outside of the United States of America. And Ally, you know, we're drawing all these allusions to these present day figures. Like, that's not a mistake. That's, that's obviously a huge part of this is that Reagan 80 is a thing that Ally thinks he wants to get away from. He entirely represents.

• 2:17:01Griffin Newman?

  I think Weir's worldview as a filmmaker is like. More than anything defined by how hard he interrogates the relationship between the indigenous and the settlers in his homeland, you know, that it feels like especially of the Australian New Wave, he is someone who really drilled down into that.

• 2:17:23Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:17:23Griffin Newman?

  And even when he

• 2:17:24Speaker 02

  That's all over the last wave.

• 2:17:25Griffin Newman?

  Even when he moves away from it being the explicit subject matter, it feels like all of his films are animated by that clash of two different communities, ideologies, people forced to share the same space, that whole kind of thing. You also have Butterfly McQueen in this?

• 2:17:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:17:40Griffin Newman?

  It's her final film?

• 2:17:41David Sims?

  Uh, she would have been, she was quite old, right?

• 2:17:43Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:17:44David Sims?

  1911, so she's in her sort of late seventies. Yeah.

• 2:17:49Griffin Newman?

  She lives another 10 years.

• 2:17:50David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:51Griffin Newman?

  She lives 84.

• 2:17:51David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:52Speaker 02

  This is her first Hollywood production, I think, that played theatrically since Duel in the Sun?

• 2:18:00Griffin Newman?

  That seems correct.

• 2:18:02Speaker 02

  She's been, she does a lot of TV.

• 2:18:04David Sims?

  Which is 1946.

• 2:18:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. And she's, you know, she's incredibly important historical actor, um, you know, who's in Cabin in the Sky and Mildred Pierce and all these movies, but, um, she's, she's, she's an icon.

• 2:18:17Griffin Newman?

  Yep.

• 2:18:18David Sims?

  It's not a big role.

• 2:18:19Griffin Newman?

  Uh, a vowed atheist?

• 2:18:21David Sims?

  Uh, Butterfly McQueen is.

• 2:18:22Griffin Newman?

  Thought it was funny to play this role.

• 2:18:24David Sims?

  Right. Not Miss, uh, Kenny Wick.

• 2:18:26Griffin Newman?

  No, is, is a devotee of Christ.

• 2:18:28David Sims?

  Right. Because they, they end up back with Spellgood. Spellgood is the, you know, back to me.

• 2:18:33Griffin Newman?

  Which is, right. The ultimate insult to Ally.

• 2:18:36David Sims?

  That's the movie.

• 2:18:36Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:18:38Speaker 02

  I'll do it myself.

• 2:18:40David Sims?

  Uh, and, uh, he has built a compound and

• 2:18:45Griffin Newman?

  His thing is working.

• 2:18:46David Sims?

  Right. This is the ultimate insult to Ally's sort of intellectual vanity or whatever. He, uh, he, you know, wants to destroy it. Um, it goes from just like, no, I want to do my own thing, or I want to live a certain kind of life to like, no, fuck this guy. I hate Christianity. I hate what he's doing. What are you going to do next, buddy? Just start like blowing up every church you see? Like, it's like, it doesn't make any sense. I mean, whatever. He's crazy.

• 2:19:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but it's, it's also, it's some cause fallacy at this point. There's no, this guy can't dig himself out.

• 2:19:16David Sims?

  Like, how many times has Harrison Ford died on screen?

• 2:19:19Griffin Newman?

  Great question.

• 2:19:20David Sims?

  Adam Driver mercs him in Force Awakens.

• 2:19:21Griffin Newman?

  Spoilers.

• 2:19:22David Sims?

  Just absolute saber through the chest.

• 2:19:24Griffin Newman?

  Sean, we went to see that movie the last night that the Ziegfeld was in operation.

• 2:19:28David Sims?

  So true.

• 2:19:29Griffin Newman?

  With my parents and a bunch of friends. And my mom went to the bathroom during Han Solo's death scene. And I like tried to stop her and she went and she came back after it was over and the movie ends and she goes, it's weird that Harrison Ford's just like not in the last half hour at all.

• 2:19:45David Sims?

  She didn't really pick up on it.

• 2:19:46Griffin Newman?

  Forget about him.

• 2:19:46David Sims?

  Why Chewbacca gives Leia a big hug or whatever. Oh no, he doesn't. It's a, it's a rave.

• 2:19:52Speaker 02

  I know this is like coming into another team's clubhouse or something, but I, I, I still think that death works so well.

• 2:19:57Griffin Newman?

  I think that stuff.

• 2:19:58David Sims?

  I just rewatched that movie because I'm doing my thing right now. And there's parts of it now that do, I mean, the, the episode nine hurts so much of that whole enterprise.

• 2:20:09Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:20:09David Sims?

  But the, all the Ford stuff in Force Awakens is bananas.

• 2:20:12Speaker 02

  I think it's so good.

• 2:20:13Griffin Newman?

  I think it totally works. I think he's so good in it. I think that death works.

• 2:20:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, it works great.

• 2:20:18Griffin Newman?

  The stuff that doesn't work in that movie is not the stuff that people tend to point at.

• 2:20:22David Sims?

  Oh, really? What do people point to? Or what? Yeah, like.

• 2:20:25Griffin Newman?

  I think they point at that, the legacy characters, the Mary Sue shit. Like, they're the four obvious complaints where I'm like, guys, those aren't the problems. The problems are the like, J.J. Abrams, he built a bad infrastructure thing.

• 2:20:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:20:37Griffin Newman?

  It's the foundations of the house.

• 2:20:38David Sims?

  A hundred percent.

• 2:20:39Speaker 02

  It's all to me because Kazdin wrote all the Solo stuff. Like, and it's, he just knows that character, like fucking inside and out. And it just, it just feels like the other films. And not everything, and even in Force Awakens feels like the other films, even though it kind of looks and sounds like it. But that stuff to me just, it's the same emotional intensity colliding with fantasy stuff that I think is so good about those movies.

• 2:21:03David Sims?

  I like when Maz Kanata calls Chewie her boyfriend.

• 2:21:06Griffin Newman?

  I like her. She's good. On The Witness 4K that Arrow put out, there is a daytime morning talk show interview that I referenced a bunch of that episode because it's funny watching Harrison Ford having to like not be actively uncomfortable. And he's talking about expanding and trying to do other things. And then she goes, what about Star Wars four? So first of all, I like that she calls it Star Wars four.

• 2:21:30David Sims?

  Makes sense.

• 2:21:30Griffin Newman?

  Right?

• 2:21:31David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:21:31Griffin Newman?

  And he's like, no, I think we're done with those. And she's like, but

• 2:21:36David Sims?

  And he's only a year or two removed from Jedi at this point, which is a movie he didn't like making and

• 2:21:40Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:21:40David Sims?

  Right. You know, it had nothing to do

• 2:21:41Griffin Newman?

  He goes, I think we told that story. Three is a good number. We completed the arcs of those characters. I'm very proud of them. I owe George Lucas my career.

• 2:21:49David Sims?

  But he's respectfully like, no.

• 2:21:50Griffin Newman?

  He and he printed us, but the story is done. We said what we needed to say. And the last I've talked to George, I don't think making another Star Wars movie is really in his purview.

• 2:21:59David Sims?

  And if you see that movie, I'm taking a lot of orders from Teddy Bears for most of it.

• 2:22:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I'm happy. I'm looking at Teddy Bear putts.

• 2:22:06David Sims?

  It's Teddy Bears going like, you know, get over that hill.

• 2:22:10Griffin Newman?

  Please kill me.

• 2:22:11David Sims?

  Whatever this guy says.

• 2:22:12Speaker 02

  I can't wait to show Alice Jedi. That's Ewok.

• 2:22:15Griffin Newman?

  So then the reporter goes, you say that now, of course, 15, 20 years from now.

• 2:22:21David Sims?

  Not incorrect.

• 2:22:22Griffin Newman?

  Time has passed. If the price is right. And he just goes, no.

• 2:22:26David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:27Griffin Newman?

  And she goes, no. And he goes, nothing's going to change my mind.

• 2:22:30David Sims?

  30 years later.

• 2:22:31Griffin Newman?

  And I'm like, oh, things like this are why he built the reputation of he hates Han Solo. He hates Star Wars. He never wants to do it again. But then it it took 30 years and $20 million and Kasdan and everything.

• 2:22:44Speaker 02

  It's just also just a smart way to keep your quote up. If you say you'll never do it, you know, it's going to cost more to do it. That's just good business.

• 2:22:51Griffin Newman?

  I watched him give this reaction where he just says, no plainly. And you're like, he's not an alley fox spiral. He's just like, no, I actually just know there's nothing they could do to convince me and make another Star Wars movie. And then he says, by the way, I'm gonna still keep doing Indiana Jones. We're scripting a new one. We'll do one of those in two years.

• 2:23:07Speaker 02

  This is one of my favorite things, especially about big time movie stars. It's true of some actors, maybe many actors, but particularly big time stars. They're on screen and they perform and they show you the most, the deepest, most vulnerable parts of themselves whilst performing. But they, the ones who are really good, have no desire to truly be understood. And I feel like we live in a time, and I certainly feel this way about myself, where everyone is desperate to be understood, to be heard and to be told. I get it, man. Makes sense. It's gonna be okay. We're in it together. And movie stars are like, you don't know shit.

• 2:23:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:45Speaker 02

  And I'll lie right to your face.

• 2:23:46Griffin Newman?

  The real true movie stars? Yeah. I mean, I think about it all the time, but it was the 824 podcast when Souvenir was coming out.

• 2:23:53Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 2:23:55David Sims?

  Marty and Joy and a honk.

• 2:23:56Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 2:23:56Speaker 02

  The big two.

• 2:23:57Griffin Newman?

  And he asked her, like, how are you dealing with this kind of press cycle? You've never had to do this much for a movie before, right? And she's like, God, I hate it. And he's like, it's the worst, right? And she goes, how do you put up with it? They ask me these questions. They want me to explain the movie and explain myself, and I don't want to do that. And he goes, here's what you do. They ask you, you don't shut them down. You give them something else.

• 2:24:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:24:20Griffin Newman?

  Which I was like, that's the-

• 2:24:20Speaker 02

  I have received that many a time in my career.

• 2:24:22Griffin Newman?

  How do you not feel like you're being cagey and read like you're holding back?

• 2:24:27Speaker 02

  Right. Don't just say nothing.

• 2:24:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:29David Sims?

  But if you don't want to answer the question-

• 2:24:31Griffin Newman?

  Right. What's some other piece of information?

• 2:24:32Speaker 02

  I have never been more excited and, and I guess wrong footed by a director in an interview than I was with Joanna Hogg. When I did my whole, what's the last great thing you've seen thing.

• 2:24:43David Sims?

  She was like, I'm not answering your fucking question.

• 2:24:46Griffin Newman?

  She's like, I ate a good sandwich yesterday. I gave you something else.

• 2:24:48Speaker 02

  You know what I fired up last night? Heat. I love Heat.

• 2:24:52David Sims?

  Yeah, I remember.

• 2:24:52Speaker 02

  Directed by Michael Mann.

• 2:24:53David Sims?

  I was like, I was pumping my fist, baby.

• 2:24:55Speaker 02

  Really, Joanna Hogg? And she was like, yeah. And then, you know, talked about it, you know, smartly for five minutes. But, uh, that just goes to show you.

• 2:25:02David Sims?

  I had a great time interviewing the Hogster.

• 2:25:04Speaker 02

  She's cool. Yeah, she was cool.

• 2:25:06Griffin Newman?

  Wild.

• 2:25:06David Sims?

  I did. And I referred to the Hogverse with her because it was Eternal Daughter. So I'm like, at this point, we're getting versy. You know, we're entering a verse.

• 2:25:14Speaker 02

  True.

• 2:25:14Griffin Newman?

  Phase two, dads.

• 2:25:18Griffin Newman?

  No, I bring all this up to say-

• 2:25:20David Sims?

  But still told us what to do.

• 2:25:21Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Told him with a mustache. I bring all this up to say that I think Ford had this reputation of he's not giving us anything, right? He's holding back and he's not offering up an alternative. I think once he realized he could lean into the crank bit, it became a very successful version of give them something else. There's a game I can play now that feeds into an idea of what public persona Harrison Ford is that still actually guards myself? But you hear modern stars always cite Harrison Ford as the person they wish they could be, not just as an actor, but as like a public persona. Movie stars all the time while they're on press tours, revealing way too much of themselves are like, I just admire the old school of like Harrison Ford.

• 2:26:05Griffin Newman?

  You keep to yourself, you're not doing a thousand interviews, you're not letting people know. And no one can do that anymore. And I also think it's fascinating that you're like, he is really the prototype for our modern movie star. The modern movie star model is based off of having a Han Solo, and if you're lucky, a Han Solo and an Indiana Jones in your back pocket, right? And it's just like, you're set, you're set, you can always go back to them and then you do the other stuff. The problem is now the guys don't do what the other stuff, or if they do the other stuff, it's like, I'll take a tiny 10 day supporting role in a small indie thing to flex myself a little bit. But they're not cashing the movie star value on building an entire vehicle that's difficult

• 2:26:48Griffin Newman?

  outside of like DiCaprio, who's also the last guy who still kinda does this. For as much as we like to talk about whatever 26 year old he's dating, we don't really fucking know anything about him and he's elusive.

• 2:27:00Speaker 02

  No, there are a couple of guys who I think operate in a similar way, like obviously Adam Driver is like this, I think for the most part, Ryan Gosling is like this. You know, whether it's, whether you like him or not, Chris Pratt is kind of like this. He doesn't really give you any of his interior life.

• 2:27:15Griffin Newman?

  And but then you'll get a glimpse and you'll be like, oh.

• 2:27:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:27:18Griffin Newman?

  Bless to that, please.

• 2:27:19Speaker 02

  Again, like if you, if you remove the subjectivity of the movies that they make, like he is a kind of restrained star.

• 2:27:25Griffin Newman?

  No, I agree, and I feel like Ford has like complimented Pratt a lot. Pratt will make the mistake of doing the like, I need to comment on people getting upset about an idea of me that's wrong and I want to tell them that they don't know me. But I won't put forward anything else.

• 2:27:42Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:27:42Griffin Newman?

  Right, which it's like.

• 2:27:43Speaker 02

  And I'm not mad, not put in the newspaper that I am mad.

• 2:27:46Griffin Newman?

  You can't do that. I agree that he's a little bit unknowable, but he keeps making it feel like he's hiding something.

• 2:27:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:27:52Griffin Newman?

  Which is where you fuck that up.

• 2:27:53Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 2:27:54Griffin Newman?

  And yeah.

• 2:27:55Speaker 02

  Let me ask you guys about one Harrison Ford movie.

• 2:27:58Griffin Newman?

  Please.

• 2:27:59Speaker 02

  Have either of you seen Hanover Street?

• 2:28:01Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:28:02David Sims?

  What is that?

• 2:28:03Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:28:03Griffin Newman?

  Oh, is that the one with Amy Irving?

• 2:28:06David Sims?

  This is early.

• 2:28:07Speaker 02

  It's Leslie and Down.

• 2:28:08Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:28:09David Sims?

  Post-Star Wars.

• 2:28:10Speaker 02

  Post-Star Wars.

• 2:28:11David Sims?

  Empire.

• 2:28:12Speaker 02

  Pre-empire. It's-

• 2:28:13David Sims?

  Peter Hyams film?

• 2:28:14Speaker 02

  A Peter Hyams film from 1979, set during World War II. A pilot falls in love with a British woman. And it's like a classical 1947 style, um, post-World War II movie. And it's a beau- I think a beautiful film, very underrated. It was the big discovery when we did a big Harrison Ford episode around Dial of Destiny.

• 2:28:39Griffin Newman?

  I forgot to call it out in the Witness episode, but my favorite moment maybe in the history of Big Pic is when Amanda is just like, you know, playing grown up through the whole Hall of Fame. And then you say Witness and she goes, "Greeeeet!"

• 2:28:53Griffin Newman?

  She's just been waiting to yell.

• 2:28:55Speaker 02

  This movie, actually the energy that he's bringing to Witness, I think, starts here. It's like, it is his best pure romance film. Um, and it is one of the only films that is like Mosquito Coast, that is sort of like, I didn't see that one, you know, like I skipped that one, I missed that one. And it's post-Star Wars. It's not, you know, and it's not a tiny movie by any means. It's a, it's a big old period piece war film. And it's really, really good. And I never see anybody talking about it ever. And so I'm always looking for someone to say like, have you checked that one out? I mean, you know, in 79, he does Hanover Street, Apocalypse Now and the Frisco Kid. Like he, he is drafting off of the Star Wars success in a big way. And nobody's fucking seen that movie.

• 2:29:34David Sims?

  Is there a steal?

• 2:29:35Speaker 02

  There's, I don't even think there's a Blu-ray right now. Is there a Blu-ray?

• 2:29:38Griffin Newman?

  There's not even Twilight time?

• 2:29:39David Sims?

  Looks like there's merely a DVD.

• 2:29:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29:42Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 2:29:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. I would, I probably would have acquired that if I could have.

• 2:29:45David Sims?

  You can get a DVD two-pack.

• 2:29:47Speaker 02

  With-

• 2:29:48David Sims?

  Hanover Street and Random Hearts.

• 2:29:51Speaker 02

  There it is.

• 2:29:51David Sims?

  I'll say it again.

• 2:29:52Griffin Newman?

  Beginning and the end.

• 2:29:53Speaker 02

  My forlorn Harrison Ford.

• 2:29:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:56David Sims?

  Right, right, right. Emo, emo Ford.

• 2:29:58Griffin Newman?

  I do just, I, I love him so much.

• 2:30:01David Sims?

  Just to conclude the film, Andre Gregory shoots his fucking ass and they go upstream. And, uh, he's like, all right, are we, you know, as he's dying, Helen Mirren kind of lies to him. And it's like, yeah, yeah, we're good. We're getting to where you want to go.

• 2:30:15Speaker 02

  And then a thousand vultures descend upon his body.

• 2:30:18Griffin Newman?

  To your point, is there a version of this movie in which he goes, my family is right. Here's a boat. Let's sail back to mainland to civilization. Instead, this movie is his family sails off with his dying body. And you're like, where are they going? How are they going to get there? And also in five minutes, they're going to be with a corpse of a man who fucked them up.

• 2:30:40Speaker 02

  And they're, and they're heading back. Kind of happy. They're kind of happy that dad died.

• 2:30:45Griffin Newman?

  Kind of?

• 2:30:46Speaker 02

  Kind of.

• 2:30:46David Sims?

  Yeah, he's a tough hang.

• 2:30:48Griffin Newman?

  Like, there's a sense of relief?

• 2:30:50David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:50Speaker 02

  But she, she lies to him.

• 2:30:52David Sims?

  Yeah, she lies to him.

• 2:30:53Speaker 02

  And that they're heading back where they came from.

• 2:30:55David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:56Speaker 02

  They're heading the fuck out.

• 2:30:56Griffin Newman?

  I know, but that's a tough journey they have ahead of them.

• 2:31:00David Sims?

  Yeah, but they're gonna be okay. Helen Mirren will be a waitress or something.

• 2:31:03Griffin Newman?

  They'll use his dead body as a paddle.

• 2:31:05David Sims?

  Yeah, fucking chop him up. Chop him up. Make a stew. Um, no?

• 2:31:12Speaker 02

  Pack him in ice.

• 2:31:12David Sims?

  Aren't into this?

• 2:31:13Speaker 02

  Um, send him home.

• 2:31:14Griffin Newman?

  We, we covered all the Indiana Jones movies. We covered all the Star Wars movies.

• 2:31:19David Sims?

  We haven't, uh, excuse me, we have not turned the Dial of Destiny yet.

• 2:31:22Griffin Newman?

  You're right. I'm sorry. That's the one we haven't done.

• 2:31:24Speaker 02

  Will it be about time?

• 2:31:26Griffin Newman?

  Hmm.

• 2:31:27Speaker 02

  Why not? Why haven't you done that yet?

• 2:31:29David Sims?

  I mean, we haven't done Mangold. I guess we could.

• 2:31:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:31Speaker 02

  Right, of course.

• 2:31:32David Sims?

  Could Mangold it up.

• 2:31:33Speaker 02

  It's not Spielberg.

• 2:31:34Griffin Newman?

  Do, yeah.

• 2:31:35David Sims?

  You can tell it's not Spielberg because it's not very good.

• 2:31:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:38Speaker 02

  No, I like James Mangold.

• 2:31:39Griffin Newman?

  I like James Mangold. I just think that film is not very good.

• 2:31:41David Sims?

  Yeah, I agree.

• 2:31:42Speaker 02

  I, I honestly liked it. It's got a couple of things. I liked it. I don't, I don't regret liking it. I think I like it more than Crystal Skull. I'm putting that out there.

• 2:31:49Griffin Newman?

  I like Crystal Skull.

• 2:31:50Speaker 02

  I know you guys like Crystal Skull. I don't really like it very much.

• 2:31:52Griffin Newman?

  I think both of them have stuff and, and fatal fundamental errors in their conception. And for me, I like slightly more of Dial, of Skull than Dial.

• 2:32:08David Sims?

  Oh, and Skull to me is just so much better. Skull has a point of view and Dial of Destiny, I felt lacked.

• 2:32:13Speaker 02

  Very, very similarly to the, if they had done this conversation, I've, I think I said this already, but if Indy stays with Archimedes in the past.

• 2:32:22Griffin Newman?

  I couldn't agree more.

• 2:32:23Speaker 02

  I'm like, this movie is amazing.

• 2:32:25Griffin Newman?

  That's the end.

• 2:32:26Speaker 02

  This is an amazing way to end this franchise.

• 2:32:28Griffin Newman?

  I'm so with you. I'm like, the cowardice of that movie is that ending for me is the only reason to go back and make a fifth one.

• 2:32:37Speaker 02

  I just, I thought that would have been clever.

• 2:32:39Griffin Newman?

  I got excited.

• 2:32:40Speaker 02

  Perfect.

• 2:32:41Griffin Newman?

  Don't want that man out of his life.

• 2:32:43David Sims?

  Again, look, you, I will argue for this one more time, which I hate doing because I don't like the movie very much. The whole point of the movie is Indiana realizing he does have something to go home to. If he, he's saying, I have nothing to go home to. I want to stay in the past. The movie ends that way. It is a bizarre ending to Indiana Jones's story.

• 2:33:03Griffin Newman?

  And it's brave.

• 2:33:05David Sims?

  It's not brave.

• 2:33:05Griffin Newman?

  It's brave.

• 2:33:07David Sims?

  The whole point is that Karen Allen is like, I know life sucks and I know you're getting old and I know Mutt Williams died in Vietnam, RIP. Like, we salute his service, but you cannot simply just like turn into a Grecian urn bitch. Come home with human beings that you love.

• 2:33:23Speaker 02

  This is why maybe we like the mosquito.

• 2:33:25Griffin Newman?

  And they don't.

• 2:33:26David Sims?

  But yeah, I do like the mosquito. I think this is a very good movie. I think it's a very successful movie. I just don't think it was a commercially appropriate.

• 2:33:33Speaker 02

  Wasn't a good play.

• 2:33:34David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah. Look, I think this movie's great. I mean, in a way.

• 2:33:37Griffin Newman?

  I weird.

• 2:33:37David Sims?

  It's a movie I'd like to rewatch.

• 2:33:38Griffin Newman?

  Have talked with people a lot in the last couple of weeks about Eddington.

• 2:33:42Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 2:33:43Griffin Newman?

  I think something about one battle after another, like knocked Eddington back into people's minds, as you said, when you guys covered.

• 2:33:49David Sims?

  A lot of, a lot of online chatter of, right, like, that is like weird.

• 2:33:53Griffin Newman?

  Conversation, they're like, how do we process the last five years movie? And like I, Eddington hits harder for me because it is a better reflection of my worldview. And I don't find the ending of one battle after another, false or pushed. I buy it completely. And I in fact, think it's kind of a miracle that they landed on a Titanic-esque ending. That makes you leave the theater feeling good for a movie that should just end in Bummerville in terms of everything it's built for itself.

• 2:34:22David Sims?

  One battle? Why would it end in Bummerville?

• 2:34:25Griffin Newman?

  A lot of bad things are happening in that movie and continue escalating over and over again. And theoretically, you're like. The resolution of the central emotional conflict of the film should not be able to solve the external realities of the world in a way where wherever they've landed, things are still bad. And they came up with an ending that makes the resolution of the characters' inner lives feel like a triumph for us, the audience.

• 2:34:52Speaker 02

  This is very interesting to me, Griffin, that this, okay, go ahead.

• 2:34:55Griffin Newman?

  Much like old Rose going back to the fucking Titanic and you're like.

• 2:34:58Speaker 02

  Gosh, there's so much I can't say about this. I'm trying to think what I can say. What can't you say? Uh, just because I know like what the original ending in One Battle was. I know a lot of other things, but I, here's what I can say. One Battle is being called like a movie of the moment and being described as like a perfect representation because it's got these migrant detention centers and it's got this, you know, society in the, in the enthral to fascism.

• 2:35:23Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:35:24Speaker 02

  But it. Like the levers of fascism are easy to pull at it. Right. It's not like it works perfectly for Mr. Lockjaw. No, but the, but. Mistakes are made. Lockjaw is just a functionary inside of a bigger structure. Exactly. Like he's able to use certain things. Exactly. So there are things in a, that really resonate with the world right now. For the record, you could probably hear this on the, all the episodes I've done about the movie, but that is not what makes the movie to me at all. Like I actually don't, I think that stuff is, is, is very well executed and very smart and beautifully rendered. But like, I don't care about that stuff as much as I care about the, the characters, the sense of humor, and then the kind of meeting points of those two things. Eddington was made specifically to do what you just said.

• 2:36:07Griffin Newman?

  Which I.

• 2:36:08Speaker 02

  It is supposed to be literally, here's how it felt in 2020.

• 2:36:12Griffin Newman?

  Yep.

• 2:36:12Speaker 02

  That is not what Paul was doing.

• 2:36:13Griffin Newman?

  I, I am so loathe to revisit 2020 in any way. Ben and I saw that together and I'm just like, this is going so far past poking a bruise. It has like pushed its finger past the layers of skin. It is like scratching nerves. If we're gonna go this deep and this thorough and really interrogate it, I'm all here for it. It's the ultimate feel bad movie. It ends on a conclusion of probably just beyond fucked. Everything's bad for everyone. And I watched it and I'm like, I think this movie's pretty on. Honest, you know, this makes sense to me. This all rings true.

• 2:36:46David Sims?

  But it has a sense of humor.

• 2:36:47Griffin Newman?

  It does.

• 2:36:48David Sims?

  Eddington's very funny.

• 2:36:49Griffin Newman?

  But the humor is rooted in like calling out things that we all try to.

• 2:36:53David Sims?

  Eddington is very much like the data center will win, right? Like, you know, and that's great. And I love Eddington. I think it's awesome. I think it's a great movie about 2020. One Battle isn't really about 2020, though, because this movie could have been made 20 years ago. It's about how like, no, no, we don't give up.

• 2:37:10Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:37:10David Sims?

  Like, we have children. We have new generations. They have new perspectives we don't understand. And this will continue probably over time. Fucking magic at the ending is that he's using a cell phone. That he's like, I guess I should engage with the world. I guess I should belong to whatever's happening here. And I should let my daughter go figure it out. But also it's her time to be in charge of this. And it's not like she's gonna go save the world. She might go get in trouble. She might die. But like, it's like, there's an optimism of like, I need to wake up again, right? Like, that's the magic.

• 2:37:40Griffin Newman?

  Can I say, can I say one battle spoiler?

• 2:37:42David Sims?

  Of course, Joaquin is like, you know, which I love as well. It's very funny.

• 2:37:47Griffin Newman?

  One battle spoiler warning for people who have not seen this movie is spring of 2026. I had someone text me like, hey, can you explain me? I don't know if I'm just dumb. Or, and I didn't get this, or the movie isn't doing this.

• 2:38:00David Sims?

  Right. And you were like, the Christmas adventure, no, what?

• 2:38:02Griffin Newman?

  Are good and right. They just want to get rid of street trash and punks.

• 2:38:08Griffin Newman?

  Note that, you know, you have the emotional reunion of DiCaprio and Chase Infinity. Father and daughter, right?

• 2:38:16David Sims?

  Will Bob and Will.

• 2:38:17Griffin Newman?

  Cuts to Terminator Lockjaw, then he's Christmas adventured off the face of the board. And then you go back to the resolution of everything you're saying.

• 2:38:27David Sims?

  But truly, the first time I saw that movie, when Penn gets blasted in the face, I was like, love that. And then when he's alive, I had this momentary twinge of like, are you sure, PTA? That was a great ending for the character that he gives me the real ending. And I was like, sorry for saying anything.

• 2:38:42Griffin Newman?

  Trust you, boss.

• 2:38:43David Sims?

  I won't talk again.

• 2:38:45Griffin Newman?

  I agree with your read on the endings, right?

• 2:38:47David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:38:48Griffin Newman?

  But this is more what I want to identify, that the text was, "Explain to me how they're just able to return to normal society. Everything Lockjaw put into motion, wouldn't that not be solved by just taking Lockjaw off the board?" And I said, "There are a couple of interpretations I have, right? You're like, the machinery is all ready. He has created this false flag operation to find them, to track them down, to make up this story of what they've done. He's sicked all of the power of the military against them. Even if he's off the board, how are they okay? How do they just go back to the same home and reset to the same life?" And I said, "You can either accept it as that is just a

• 2:39:29Griffin Newman?

  a device of the sort of level of farce that the movie has reached at that point of like, it can be represented in a battle between two people. Or, you know, my inner plot justification of that is basically, at some point, they identified the mess that Lockjaw created, that it was driven by his own personal vendetta, that it was an abuse of power."

• 2:39:53David Sims?

  The Christmas adventurers say that.

• 2:39:55Griffin Newman?

  And that they cover up everything for everyone.

• 2:39:57David Sims?

  Absolutely. They are saying in that meeting where they're gonna take him out, they're like, and now he's like, there's the line that one of them repeats, where he's like, "They hit the school." Where you can tell that they're like, "This is too much exposure for us. This is all this mess for no reason, except obviously he wants to be a Christmas adventurer."

• 2:40:14Griffin Newman?

  The question then, we understand.

• 2:40:15Speaker 02

  You walk through dark tunnels to get to this meeting.

• 2:40:18David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:40:18Speaker 02

  This is a very secret organization.

• 2:40:21Griffin Newman?

  The question on that just becomes, "Why don't they wipe the two of them out as well?"

• 2:40:26David Sims?

  But because like, they don't care. I mean, like, that's my read.

• 2:40:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I think that the French 75 doesn't interest the Christmas adventurers at all.

• 2:40:36David Sims?

  Not one bit.

• 2:40:36Griffin Newman?

  They don't view them as powerful enough to fuck with them.

• 2:40:38David Sims?

  Of course not. The French 75 is like defunct at this point, right?

• 2:40:41Speaker 02

  Bob Ferguson is a loser. He's there and he's not gonna make any change against what they're up to. And that is a huge part, I mean, that to me was also a huge part of the point of the movie and that I think actually makes it somewhat more. Philosophically in connection to Eddington and I think PTA is definitely like the forces are still more powerful than you. You can have hope, but they're way bigger than what we can do.

• 2:41:07David Sims?

  Christmas adventures. In ways, right? You don't even see and all that.

• 2:41:10Griffin Newman?

  AI big tech occupy the same roles in those two movies. And the difference is that Eddington ends with a guy who you've watched Mosquito Coast himself into chaos, being like a vegetable in a bed, having to watch his mother-in-law get fucked. It's like even the bad guy lives in hell. We're all fucked. And one battle after another is like, these two characters have each other and they've learned something from this and they have a good perspective and they live to fight another day. And you can't give up hope.

• 2:41:38Speaker 02

  The needle drop at the end of Eddington is so good. Like, there's a lot of talk about the needle drop at the end of One Battle, which is great, very recognizable. But the Bobby Gentry song, Courtyard, which is so haunting as you look out onto the AI center and you're like, Ari is really good at a final song.

• 2:41:54Griffin Newman?

  Great, really good. But also the use of fireworks in that and the Mariah Carey song and Bo. Do we think One Battle has won Best Picture at the time this episode comes out?

• 2:42:02David Sims?

  Good question.

• 2:42:03Griffin Newman?

  This episode will come out April 19th.

• 2:42:05David Sims?

  Do you think so, Sean? You've seen Marty Supreme.

• 2:42:06Griffin Newman?

  There are no crazy release date changes for new releases.

• 2:42:09Speaker 02

  We'll be able to vet this very cleanly in six months, but I did, having, having just seen Marty.

• 2:42:15David Sims?

  Which is the last big player.

• 2:42:17Speaker 02

  Yes. Which I don't, I don't think is the best. I think will be nominated for Best Picture, but it's not a contender to win. That's, but that's, you know.

• 2:42:23David Sims?

  Timmy seems to be whatever.

• 2:42:24Speaker 02

  I think Shalhoub has a very good chance to win.

• 2:42:26Griffin Newman?

  We're recording this two days after the first screening of Marty.

• 2:42:29David Sims?

  I didn't go, I went to Tron.

• 2:42:33Speaker 02

  I think that Marty and Sinners will siphon votes from One Battle that they will not siphon from Hamnet.

• 2:42:42David Sims?

  Well, I haven't seen Hamnet yet. I shouldn't be so dismissive.

• 2:42:45Speaker 02

  You know, and I've seen.

• 2:42:46David Sims?

  It just kind of feels like one of the things for the Oscars are like, we have our finger on the post and it's saying Hamnet.

• 2:42:52Speaker 02

  Yes. I, I do, I'm, I am already preparing for that nightmare scenario.

• 2:42:59David Sims?

  Well, the nightmare scenario was last year, Amelia Perez. That would have been the fully mystery. Like Hamnet appears to be a well-regarded film.

• 2:43:05Speaker 02

  See, that actually would have been better, at least for my emotional state, because it would have been so absurd. This doesn't matter. Like, this is complete nonsense.

• 2:43:13David Sims?

  Conan comes out and he's like, well, there are no more Oscars.

• 2:43:16Griffin Newman?

  When Green Book won Best Picture, I was cackling. I was like, they had an opportunity to do the funniest thing.

• 2:43:22Speaker 02

  You're in the hellscape and it's just like, let's dance together.

• 2:43:24Griffin Newman?

  And Amelia Perez would have been that times 10.

• 2:43:27Speaker 02

  It would have been this. This is more like, oh yeah, there's like 30 of these in Oscar history.

• 2:43:32David Sims?

  I was about to say, it feels like a very obvious Oscar choice. Right?

• 2:43:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, it does. And you know what? Amanda and I have been saying that there is a little bit of Saving Private Ryan, Shakespeare in Love in reverse.

• 2:43:41David Sims?

  But Shakespeare in Love is funny and charming and has kissing and it sounds like Ham.

• 2:43:46Speaker 02

  So does one battle after another.

• 2:43:47Griffin Newman?

  I know, right? Is that one battle is the Shakespeare in terms of type of movie.

• 2:43:53David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:43:53Griffin Newman?

  Hamnet is the Spielberg in terms of her.

• 2:43:57Speaker 02

  But it has Shakespeare.

• 2:43:59Griffin Newman?

  But he's over.

• 2:43:59David Sims?

  Saving Private Ryan was the boomer masterpiece, big scale and Saving.

• 2:44:03Speaker 02

  They're like, they're the funhouse mirror image of each other.

• 2:44:07David Sims?

  Cause Hamnet, I haven't seen it, but it's not that big scale of movie, right?

• 2:44:10Speaker 02

  No, and I don't, again, like, don't hate it. And it's not the villain of the year. Like, I do think that that's gonna happen pretty quickly where like the bros are gonna be like, uh, Hamnet, what the fuck, dude? And there's, there are some beautiful things about Hamnet, but it winning over the three movies I named that I would be very, I would be unhappy.

• 2:44:27David Sims?

  I also. Holy shit, I'll need a second best picture in five years.

• 2:44:30Griffin Newman?

  I also think that, uh, the people I've spoken to have seen Hamnet, I've not seen it yet. Who are the most resistant, the most cynical about it.

• 2:44:39David Sims?

  Now, Hamhat, the Birthday Boys sketch, that's best picture worthy.

• 2:44:43Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely. Put it up. It never got a theatrical release. Could you do a limelight? And have it qualify this year?

• 2:44:49David Sims?

  Now, carry on, carry. The people you know who've seen.

• 2:44:51Griffin Newman?

  The people I know who have seen Hamnet and are the most allergic and resistant to it are like, and yet I cannot deny the fucking last five minutes.

• 2:45:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, last 20 minutes is powerful.

• 2:45:02David Sims?

  I'm sorry. Okay, okay.

• 2:45:03Griffin Newman?

  To be a last 20, last 10, last.

• 2:45:06David Sims?

  That fucking Max Richter track again, though?

• 2:45:08Speaker 02

  That does happen to me. That is, I mean, obviously that as, as the wallpaper music that it hits hard.

• 2:45:14David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:45:14Speaker 02

  But it's just, there's, um.

• 2:45:18David Sims?

  The rival did that.

• 2:45:18Speaker 02

  Staging that really works well. I hadn't read the novel. I also didn't know it was coming.

• 2:45:22David Sims?

  I'm pumped for it because I like Shakespeare.

• 2:45:24Speaker 02

  Yes. And if you do, this is a, this is a good movie about liking Shakespeare.

• 2:45:27David Sims?

  Now, I don't like Children in Peril, though.

• 2:45:30Speaker 02

  Well.

• 2:45:31David Sims?

  And that's what I'm a little worried about.

• 2:45:32Speaker 02

  Some bad news.

• 2:45:33Griffin Newman?

  You might have a tough go. Thanks. Mosquito Coast does.

• 2:45:38David Sims?

  Also has children in peril.

• 2:45:39Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say, that is the happy ending of the movie is the children are.

• 2:45:43David Sims?

  The right guy dies.

• 2:45:45Speaker 02

  And River Phoenix gets to be Indy because of this movie.

• 2:45:48Griffin Newman?

  Exactly.

• 2:45:48Speaker 02

  Did we even say that?

• 2:45:49David Sims?

  Yeah, for sure. That's why that's the connection. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 2:45:52Griffin Newman?

  He and Martha Plimpton date for years and then it leads to them both being in Running an Empty.

• 2:45:56Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 2:45:56Griffin Newman?

  A movie I adore.

• 2:45:58Speaker 02

  Great movie. Back in the conversation because of.

• 2:45:59Griffin Newman?

  Because of Unbattled. Very similar. Yeah.

• 2:46:01David Sims?

  Um, this film, and we're gonna do the oh, oh, oh, one piece of news breaking on deadline. I want you guys to hear is Saoirse Ronan, her to her.

• 2:46:08Griffin Newman?

  Will be playing. Divorcing her husband and wants to get dinner with me.

• 2:46:12David Sims?

  No, appears to be happily married and newly has a baby and they've got a great Nuna stroller that I've seen them parading around in.

• 2:46:16Speaker 02

  Aparati pictures.

• 2:46:17Griffin Newman?

  A Nuna?

• 2:46:18David Sims?

  They got Nuna.

• 2:46:18Speaker 02

  A Nuna Rava?

• 2:46:19David Sims?

  A Nuna. I think it looks like a Rava to me. Now.

• 2:46:21Speaker 02

  Love Rava.

• 2:46:22David Sims?

  I personally, I have a baby Zen. I'm a city guy. I needed a lightweight stroller, but.

• 2:46:27Speaker 02

  Okay, we have a baby Zen as well. They're great.

• 2:46:29Griffin Newman?

  A double?

• 2:46:31David Sims?

  Well, though, our double stroller is a, I forget what it's called. I mean, that thing, there's no, there's no lightweight double stroller, unfortunately. We got about as lightweight as you can get, but it's a.

• 2:46:42David Sims?

  Um, Saoirse Ronan will be playing Linda McCartney in Sam Mendes's The Beatles, a four film cinematic event.

• 2:46:48Griffin Newman?

  That feels like something she doesn't need to do.

• 2:46:51David Sims?

  I was gonna say, the casting seems appropriate, but uh, does she really need to do that?

• 2:46:55Griffin Newman?

  The, the big four, I get it. Those are plum rolls. No disrespect to the late, great Linda McCartney.

• 2:47:00Speaker 02

  A little overqualified. That must tell us specifically what era we're in then.

• 2:47:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:47:04David Sims?

  But although I think maybe will each film be in a different era or something like?

• 2:47:07Speaker 02

  That was the idea. Maybe it's not. Maybe it's over a long period of time. I thought it was, I thought they were gonna.

• 2:47:12David Sims?

  Or is it like Xyrika? You have to play them all together and they all sync up as one cause four film.

• 2:47:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, Mike Myers is playing all four.

• 2:47:19Griffin Newman?

  I hope each movie is one unbroken two hour close up shot of the same conversation. A continuous conversation.

• 2:47:29David Sims?

  You gotta see the next three to, to make sense of this.

• 2:47:32Griffin Newman?

  It's just the meeting where they try to name the band. And so you watch the Ringo one and he only says something once every 25 minutes.

• 2:47:39David Sims?

  He's like eating a sandwich.

• 2:47:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:47:40David Sims?

  Oh, this is good.

• 2:47:43Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:47:43David Sims?

  Octopus is good.

• 2:47:44Speaker 02

  Don't do, don't do the box office game. I need, I need to pee.

• 2:47:46Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:47:47David Sims?

  Oh, okay. Should we talk while he pees?

• 2:47:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. And Sean, while you're in the bathroom, think of me.

• 2:47:54David Sims?

  Griff, have you seen, you've seen any other sort of fall films yet?

• 2:47:59Griffin Newman?

  I don't think so.

• 2:48:00David Sims?

  No.

• 2:48:01Griffin Newman?

  I'm a.

• 2:48:02David Sims?

  Yeah, your blankies, your blankies ballot remains, you know, it's just gonna start to gather steam.

• 2:48:07Griffin Newman?

  But I'm saying I'm a plebe. I go see films with the working people of America.

• 2:48:12David Sims?

  Or occasionally you get invited to a fancy screening.

• 2:48:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, occasionally. Not that many though. No, I feel like.

• 2:48:20David Sims?

  What's the worst film you've seen this year?

• 2:48:24Griffin Newman?

  That's a good question.

• 2:48:25David Sims?

  Mr. Peanut sitting very happily at the bottom of my list.

• 2:48:27Griffin Newman?

  I still have not visited the Electric State.

• 2:48:30David Sims?

  Believe me, man, you're gonna fire that movie up and be like, yes, I know it will be bad, but like, it's an action movie. Like, it'll be watchable, like, right? It'll, and it's like, it will be really hard to focus on it.

• 2:48:42Griffin Newman?

  My, my bottom list, I feel like I did some reorganizing recently. My bottom film I have right now, I got, I got a pretty tight bottom five. And I'd say the order of these five is a little interchangeable.

• 2:48:56David Sims?

  Can I guess the Jurassic World rebirth is down there?

• 2:48:58Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely down.

• 2:49:01David Sims?

  Is our president down there?

• 2:49:03Griffin Newman?

  No district or president. Right now I have Brave New World in the dead last spot.

• 2:49:08David Sims?

  Tough one to defend.

• 2:49:09Griffin Newman?

  Where I was even like thinking between Jurassic World and Brave New World and I'm like Jurassic World is well shot.

• 2:49:15David Sims?

  Yeah, it looks all right.

• 2:49:16Griffin Newman?

  Like Brave New World looks bad.

• 2:49:19David Sims?

  This is true.

• 2:49:19Griffin Newman?

  It has nothing I can recommend. I'm not even like, you know, you know who's good in a supporting role? No one scores it. Ford's better in it than anyone else and yet I wouldn't be like he punches through. And then the rest of my bottom five is Sneaks, the CGI animated film.

• 2:49:34David Sims?

  With talking sneakers?

• 2:49:36Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 2:49:36David Sims?

  Haven't seen that one.

• 2:49:37Griffin Newman?

  Martin Lawrence plays an old timer sneaker in a performance I would describe as awake.

• 2:49:43David Sims?

  Good. I'm glad they got him awake.

• 2:49:45Griffin Newman?

  Snow White is in my bottom five.

• 2:49:46David Sims?

  That's in my bottom five too.

• 2:49:47Griffin Newman?

  No, no district or queen Rachel and then Alto Nights.

• 2:49:51David Sims?

  Ah, right. I haven't checked in with those nights yet.

• 2:49:54Griffin Newman?

  That's my real like terror bottom five. That was my, and Sneaks, I will admit, I had perverse fun watching, but I cannot pretend it is good in any way. The other four I was like.

• 2:50:04David Sims?

  There, those, the other four are like, uh, major corporate art that failed, you know?

• 2:50:08Griffin Newman?

  Yes, yes.

• 2:50:09David Sims?

  For sure.

• 2:50:10Speaker 02

  You guys are doing bottom fives of 2025?

• 2:50:11David Sims?

  Yeah, I just asked him what he had down there.

• 2:50:13Griffin Newman?

  We're in the bathroom. What, uh, best actor field of this year?

• 2:50:17David Sims?

  In, in the 19.

• 2:50:18Griffin Newman?

  I know Ford never had a shot, but I would.

• 2:50:19David Sims?

  Certainly not.

• 2:50:20Griffin Newman?

  Put him in.

• 2:50:21David Sims?

  But he got a, he got, um. I think he got like a Golden Globe, not maybe Denise.

• 2:50:25Griffin Newman?

  Cause they wanted him to show up.

• 2:50:27David Sims?

  Yeah, I mean.

• 2:50:28Griffin Newman?

  That was through gritted.

• 2:50:29David Sims?

  I can't believe you would say that the Golden Globes behave in such a craven manner in the 1980s. It looks like it got Golden Globe nominations for best actor and best score Maurice Jar. Who also did a wonderful score for Witness, which I feel like we didn't shout out.

• 2:50:43Griffin Newman?

  Very synthy witness score.

• 2:50:46David Sims?

  The the Oscar nominees that year to Goodyear. This is the platoon year.

• 2:50:51Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:50:51David Sims?

  But Charlie Sheen does not get nomination.

• 2:50:53Griffin Newman?

  As Charlie Sheen would put it, I won best picture at 20 and I wasn't even warm yet. It is a phrasing I think about all the time. I won best picture.

• 2:51:02David Sims?

  You know what phrasing I think about?

• 2:51:03Griffin Newman?

  Flip the menu. In the menu.

• 2:51:05David Sims?

  Did you hear that? Charlie Sheen talking about experimenting with the sexuality, sexuality. He flipped the menu. Like I flipped the menu.

• 2:51:12Griffin Newman?

  The menu.

• 2:51:12David Sims?

  Which I just thought was perfect.

• 2:51:13Griffin Newman?

  He spent hours looking at the front of the menu and you go, what else is on the back? You haven't watched the doc, right?

• 2:51:20David Sims?

  No.

• 2:51:20Griffin Newman?

  Flipping the menu is a 10 minute conversation.

• 2:51:22David Sims?

  That sounds good.

• 2:51:23Griffin Newman?

  And he is hot committed to that one metaphor.

• 2:51:26David Sims?

  I'm glad he should be. It's good.

• 2:51:28Griffin Newman?

  And they're like, so what kind of things did you do with men? And he's like, well, you know, on the back of the menu, there's desserts. Like he just, everything is filtered through the menu. We saw the poll quote of the menu thing and we were obsessed with it. And then it's so much better the way it plays out.

• 2:51:44David Sims?

  I gotta watch that.

• 2:51:45Griffin Newman?

  I gotta flip the menu.

• 2:51:46David Sims?

  The Oscar nominees that year were Paul Newman for The Color of Money. He wins.

• 2:51:50Griffin Newman?

  He wins.

• 2:51:51David Sims?

  Bob Hoskins for Mona Lisa, who is sort of the critics pick of the year, a wonderful performance.

• 2:51:54Griffin Newman?

  And he was always arguing that in any other year, he would have.

• 2:51:59David Sims?

  I'm one mate.

• 2:52:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:00David Sims?

  I'm Super Mario. I thought it wasn't for the careers for the performance. I'm gonna get King Cooper.

• 2:52:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:05David Sims?

  Good to talk. Mushroom makes me a little taller. Just a little bit.

• 2:52:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:10David Sims?

  Like was almost related to me. Does that make sense? I think so. Neither one of us is Italian. You got Dexter Gordon for Round Midnight, which is a really cool nomination. Like, and that's kind of a cool movie, you know, right?

• 2:52:25Speaker 02

  I like that movie a lot, but that it.

• 2:52:27David Sims?

  It is wild that they would like.

• 2:52:29Speaker 02

  It up, baby.

• 2:52:31David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:33Speaker 02

  William Tervin, yeah, great director. Like, it's cool that that movie got acknowledged.

• 2:52:38David Sims?

  William Hurt for Children of a Lesser Gods. I think this is his third nomination in like three years.

• 2:52:43Griffin Newman?

  It's broadcast Spider Woman.

• 2:52:45David Sims?

  I think it's maybe Spider Woman, then Children, then Broadcast. I can't remember, but he's in his hot period.

• 2:52:50Griffin Newman?

  He's just won Best Actor the year before.

• 2:52:52David Sims?

  Uh, yes, correct. And then James Woods for Salvador. Really good performance by a normal guy.

• 2:52:58Griffin Newman?

  A Z Channel nomination. That's part of the big narrative of that doc is that that movie came out and flopped and then found such a second life within six months on Z Channel that it was the big surprise that that got in there.

• 2:53:10Speaker 02

  He's excellent in that movie.

• 2:53:12David Sims?

  Rocks in that movie. He's an amazing actor.

• 2:53:13Griffin Newman?

  Do you not feel like there's?

• 2:53:14David Sims?

  But I would, I would sub out, you know, I hurt, get, you know, whatever. Get him out of here.

• 2:53:19Griffin Newman?

  Do you not feel like to some degree, we talked about, despite him being totally deserving of that nomination, there was something a little condescending in the Academy being like, congratulations, Harrison Ford. We take you seriously now that you're not doing little boy shit, right?

• 2:53:33David Sims?

  With Witness.

• 2:53:34Griffin Newman?

  With Witness, right? They're like, we're giving you an Oscar, not just for the performance, but for thank you for growing up and being like an adult, serious actor.

• 2:53:42David Sims?

  And this is like, no, no, two adults.

• 2:53:44Griffin Newman?

  Truly. And then they never nominate him again.

• 2:53:46David Sims?

  They never nominated again. I, my question to that is, when would they have? The Fugitive's the most obvious one. Obvi- you know, that's the one where it's like, well, that movie got a Best Picture nomination, like.

• 2:53:56Griffin Newman?

  You know my argument.

• 2:53:57David Sims?

  What is it?

• 2:53:58Griffin Newman?

  Best Supporting Actor Morning Glory.

• 2:54:00David Sims?

  I need eggs from a chicken.

• 2:54:02Speaker 02

  I, I, you know, his, his clearest Oscar bait is regarding Henry. That's the film.

• 2:54:08David Sims?

  And that movie didn't go over.

• 2:54:09Speaker 02

  It didn't go.

• 2:54:10David Sims?

  They also, all my Ford noms are like, end with Mosquito Coast, I think, on my spreadsheet.

• 2:54:16Griffin Newman?

  No, there's.

• 2:54:17David Sims?

  I just gave him the credit for Han Solo and Indiana Jones and all the shit he deserves credit for.

• 2:54:21Griffin Newman?

  Up until that point, and then it feels like Witness, they're like, congratulations, you've entered the room. And on Mosquito Coast, they're like, know your place.

• 2:54:28David Sims?

  My.

• 2:54:28Griffin Newman?

  Go back to just being a matinee idol.

• 2:54:30David Sims?

  My nominees that year are Hoskins and Newman, plus Kurt Russell, Big Trouble in Little China.

• 2:54:34Griffin Newman?

  Cool.

• 2:54:35David Sims?

  Uh, Jeff Goldblum in The Fly and Ford.

• 2:54:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Oh, you do put Ford in there?

• 2:54:39David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:54:39Griffin Newman?

  Great. Great.

• 2:54:41David Sims?

  I respect you. Um, I like, I like Gene Hackman in Hoosiers that year, but that's another kind of like.

• 2:54:46Speaker 02

  Never been a Hoosiers guy.

• 2:54:47David Sims?

  Quite. I really love the first half hour of Hoosiers.

• 2:54:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know.

• 2:54:51David Sims?

  The rest of it, I'm like, it's good, but like, just the, just the whole, like, guys in a barn, it's five in the morning, all that shit's good.

• 2:54:58Speaker 02

  Despite, you know, working for Bill Simmons for like 15 years, I just have never been into Hoosiers.

• 2:55:03David Sims?

  I, and Bill likes Hoosiers, but I feel like he respects.

• 2:55:07Speaker 02

  At a time, he loved it. He has points, has pointed out its many flaws many times, but I think he has a big relationship to it.

• 2:55:13David Sims?

  I like that movie.

• 2:55:13Speaker 02

  And you know, that's a weird one too, because Hopper was nominated that year, but not for Frank Booth. He was nominated for Hoosiers.

• 2:55:18David Sims?

  But he's good in Hoosiers.

• 2:55:19Griffin Newman?

  He provided them with a safer nomination option.

• 2:55:23Speaker 02

  Yes, but Frank Booth would have been an absolutely sick.

• 2:55:25David Sims?

  It wouldn't have been a bullshit. Very true. Um, the box office.

• 2:55:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. No, I was gonna say, the box office, this movie did not perform well.

• 2:55:33David Sims?

  No, it did not. It opens on Thanksgiving, which I'm not sure how I, I'm not sure about that decision.

• 2:55:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:55:40David Sims?

  Do you like that decision?

• 2:55:42Griffin Newman?

  I think Thanksgiving release didn't mean the same thing it meant, uh, back then that it does today.

• 2:55:47David Sims?

  I suppose so.

• 2:55:48Griffin Newman?

  I think that's more of an Oscar confidence.

• 2:55:50David Sims?

  Right. It's also, of course, it's, it's, um, you know, limited release.

• 2:55:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:55:54David Sims?

  But so it's not in the top five, of course.

• 2:55:57Griffin Newman?

  I'm just saying, it's not like in 86, they were like, we're hoping Mosquito Coast clears 60 million for the five day.

• 2:56:03David Sims?

  No, they were not. Um, it's number one at the box office.

• 2:56:06Griffin Newman?

  A movie that a family is gonna wanna see together.

• 2:56:08David Sims?

  And I think we might have done this box office because number one is a movie we covered on Patreon. It's the fourth film in a beloved franchise, but it's sort of the biggest hit this franchise has had.

• 2:56:17Griffin Newman?

  It's Star Trek IV, The Voyage of Trump. Whales.

• 2:56:20David Sims?

  Whales, San Francisco.

• 2:56:22Speaker 02

  It's Star Trek IV Plumber, or is that three?

• 2:56:25David Sims?

  That's six.

• 2:56:26Speaker 02

  Six?

• 2:56:27David Sims?

  Lloyd is three.

• 2:56:28Speaker 02

  Christopher Lloyd.

• 2:56:29David Sims?

  Okay. And, uh, four is the one where they go back in time to San Francisco and there's whales.

• 2:56:33Speaker 02

  Yes, of course, right.

• 2:56:34Griffin Newman?

  Four is the villain is.

• 2:56:36David Sims?

  Sort of pleasant.

• 2:56:37Griffin Newman?

  Our wicked ways.

• 2:56:38David Sims?

  Like, you know, four is a movie that anyone can see without really any knowledge of Star Trek required.

• 2:56:43Griffin Newman?

  Fish out of water comedy.

• 2:56:44David Sims?

  Fun fish out of water comedy. It's good.

• 2:56:46Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:56:47David Sims?

  It's not my favorite, because it's the least sci-fi.

• 2:56:50Speaker 02

  It's six I love. Six rocks.

• 2:56:52Griffin Newman?

  Sean, do you know the story of how they landed on the premise for four? Eddie Murphy, under contract at Paramount, talks about how much he loves Star Trek and that he'd like to be in a Star Trek movie. And they're like, fuck, what's a premise where we could have Eddie Murphy with the Star Trek bridge crew doing his modern day?

• 2:57:10David Sims?

  Doing actual sci-fi mode, right?

• 2:57:12Griffin Newman?

  So they were like, oh, they go through a wormhole and come back to 80s San Francisco and Eddie Murphy's there with them. And then Eddie Murphy was like, I don't want to be the fucking fifth leading in a Star Trek movie. And so they rewrite his part to be the mom from Seventh Heaven.

• 2:57:25Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 2:57:26Griffin Newman?

  Who is their like present day San Francisco ally and becomes a love interest. But that was meant to be Eddie Murphy.

• 2:57:31Speaker 02

  And Eddie said, I'll make Pluto Nash.

• 2:57:34David Sims?

  Well, Eddie said, I'll make the golden child, which is his 86 movie.

• 2:57:38Griffin Newman?

  Um, not a good film, not a film I like. Watched it for the first time with recently. Yeah.

• 2:57:43David Sims?

  Yeah, more like the.

• 2:57:44Speaker 02

  Michael Richie would happen, bro. Bron's child. He used to be beautiful.

• 2:57:47Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's a weird move from Richie.

• 2:57:49David Sims?

  Number two is an animated film, uh, that is not produced by those cowards at Disney.

• 2:57:55Griffin Newman?

  Is it a Bluth?

• 2:57:56David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:57:56Griffin Newman?

  Is it The Rats of Nym?

• 2:57:58David Sims?

  It's not. It's the second film, I believe.

• 2:58:00Griffin Newman?

  It's not Land Before Time?

• 2:58:02David Sims?

  I think that's third. I can't remember the order now.

• 2:58:03Speaker 02

  It must be an American tale.

• 2:58:05David Sims?

  It's an American tale.

• 2:58:06Speaker 02

  So it's so funny you bring this up because my, as we are recording, my wife and daughter flying to New York City from Los Angeles.

• 2:58:14Griffin Newman?

  They're gonna see that, that big green lady out their window.

• 2:58:18Speaker 02

  They, they sure will. Um, and my wife said, can you send me all the Letterboxd lists you made regarding Alice? So there is a public list of all the things that she has seen. And then there are a couple of private lists that are things that she could see at some point.

• 2:58:32Griffin Newman?

  Vetted, possible Alice movie.

• 2:58:34David Sims?

  I think this will work for her.

• 2:58:35Speaker 02

  My, uh, wife loves Anastasia, Anastasia and wants to show it to her. We have not yet done it. And we haven't, we haven't done any, any of the Bluths.

• 2:58:42David Sims?

  I was about to say Anastasia, like all Bluths, it's just a little scarier than those Disney movies. It's just a little more intense.

• 2:58:48Speaker 02

  But we, so I went, I made a, I made a Bluth Letterboxd list. And I was like, where do we go first? Is it, is it American Tale? Is it Land Before Time?

• 2:58:57David Sims?

  I think it's one of those two.

• 2:58:58Griffin Newman?

  You start with Titan, of course.

• 2:59:00Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:59:00Griffin Newman?

  Clean.

• 2:59:01Speaker 02

  She's a huge Damon head though. So that'll, you know, it'll really fill out her Damon film.

• 2:59:04Griffin Newman?

  And many drivers.

• 2:59:05David Sims?

  She loves to jostle me didn't pass on anything.

• 2:59:07Griffin Newman?

  And Edland.

• 2:59:08David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:59:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:59:09Speaker 02

  We, uh, and then I did realize she has seen Thumbelina.

• 2:59:14David Sims?

  Oh, that's right.

• 2:59:14Speaker 02

  Which kind of stinks.

• 2:59:15David Sims?

  That's a, that's a bad one.

• 2:59:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:59:16David Sims?

  It's out in theaters. American Tale is kind of scary though, much like Killing Before Time. It's just a little scarier.

• 2:59:22Griffin Newman?

  It's also emotionally intense.

• 2:59:23David Sims?

  Yeah, it is. It is.

• 2:59:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:59:25David Sims?

  But I saw it when I was a kid and I fucking loved it.

• 2:59:27Speaker 02

  I loved it in American.

• 2:59:27David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:59:28Griffin Newman?

  You maybe, do you start with Fievel going west? Do you go west first?

• 2:59:32Speaker 02

  That's so confusing. We're like, we're Sergio Leone-ing in reverse, right? It's like, you gotta go Once Upon a Time in America first.

• 2:59:40Griffin Newman?

  She hasn't met.

• 2:59:40Speaker 02

  Then you gotta go west.

• 2:59:42Griffin Newman?

  She hasn't met Fievel. She doesn't have the reference base.

• 2:59:46Griffin Newman?

  I definitely saw West first.

• 2:59:47David Sims?

  I did too, because I think it was in theater.

• 2:59:49Speaker 02

  A little younger.

• 2:59:49Griffin Newman?

  Right. Yeah.

• 2:59:50David Sims?

  Yeah. Number Three of the Box Off is a film we've covered as well, and I already mentioned it. It was one of the biggest hits of the year.

• 2:59:56Griffin Newman?

  We already covered it?

• 2:59:57David Sims?

  Yep, on Patreon.

• 2:59:59Griffin Newman?

  Only on.

• 3:00:00David Sims?

  Normal app.

• 3:00:01Griffin Newman?

  Normal app, something went awry?

• 3:00:03David Sims?

  No, we're just being insane in COVID.

• 3:00:05Griffin Newman?

  Okay, so it's a COVID commentary.

• 3:00:07David Sims?

  Yep.

• 3:00:08Griffin Newman?

  It's not aliens.

• 3:00:09David Sims?

  No, nineteen eighty-six. I mean, aliens is nineteen eighty-six.

• 3:00:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, thank you. Uh, eighty-six, COVID and Sandy, it's Crocodile Dundee. Maybe the best single day of podcasting we've ever done.

• 3:00:21David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 3:00:21Griffin Newman?

  It was.

• 3:00:22David Sims?

  We are riding high and then we are not.

• 3:00:24Griffin Newman?

  It is like.

• 3:00:25Speaker 02

  What was the other episode that?

• 3:00:26Griffin Newman?

  We recorded.

• 3:00:27David Sims?

  Two, and then Crocodile Dundee in Los Angeles.

• 3:00:29Griffin Newman?

  We did the whole trilogy all in one day, a thing we used to do.

• 3:00:33Speaker 02

  A little bit more.

• 3:00:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, basically, Birth of the First Child. My memory is that was one of our last records, A, before

• 3:00:40David Sims?

  I think.

• 3:00:40Griffin Newman?

  your daughter was born and B, before the COVID vaccine was announced.

• 3:00:44David Sims?

  That's right.

• 3:00:45Griffin Newman?

  So it was right at that kind of threshold of like, is it another year of this?

• 3:00:49David Sims?

  The woke vaccine, to be clear.

• 3:00:50Griffin Newman?

  Right. And we were like, let's just knock out all three of these in a row over Zoom and we lose our fucking minds.

• 3:00:58David Sims?

  First one's good. Have you seen it?

• 3:00:59Speaker 02

  Crocodile Dundee?

• 3:01:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, the first one is good.

• 3:01:01Speaker 02

  I mean, have you seen it lately?

• 3:01:02David Sims?

  Yeah, I guess.

• 3:01:03Speaker 02

  Not since I was fourteen, but I, I, I remember enjoying it quite a bit.

• 3:01:06David Sims?

  Very enjoyable.

• 3:01:07Griffin Newman?

  First one's still hit.

• 3:01:07Speaker 02

  Seen and thought was okay.

• 3:01:09Griffin Newman?

  Two is New York. Two opens as well as any movie has ever opened.

• 3:01:13David Sims?

  Fishing with dynamite.

• 3:01:14Griffin Newman?

  It's incredible. And the Hudson River.

• 3:01:16David Sims?

  That's right.

• 3:01:16Griffin Newman?

  And then it becomes his bad.

• 3:01:18David Sims?

  It's a Rambo rip.

• 3:01:20Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:01:20Griffin Newman?

  And it barely has jokes.

• 3:01:21Speaker 02

  That's the origin of, that's not a knife, that's a knife.

• 3:01:24Griffin Newman?

  That's the first one.

• 3:01:25David Sims?

  That's the first one.

• 3:01:26Speaker 02

  They run on the subway, they don't, do they run it back?

• 3:01:28Griffin Newman?

  On the subway.

• 3:01:28David Sims?

  They run everything back.

• 3:01:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:01:30David Sims?

  Okay.

• 3:01:30Griffin Newman?

  But everything iconic happens in the first movie. Nothing iconic happens in the second movie, except fishing with dynamite in the Hudson River.

• 3:01:37Speaker 02

  Did you know that famed fantasy football expert Matthew Berry rode Crocodile Dundee in Los Angeles?

• 3:01:42David Sims?

  We definitely covered that. Yeah, we did. I like to the point that I was like, is Wikipedia misleading?

• 3:01:47Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 3:01:48David Sims?

  Like, is this a broken link?

• 3:01:49Griffin Newman?

  Those episodes also led to one of Ben's greatest ideas, a key Ben should be running Hollywood. Why is he not in every development meeting? Moment where during Crocodile Dundee in Los Angeles, which is based around him having a young son, Ben said, why isn't his son a knife?

• 3:02:05Speaker 02

  Just a giant knife.

• 3:02:06David Sims?

  A knife.

• 3:02:07Griffin Newman?

  A knife with legs and arms.

• 3:02:09Speaker 02

  That's sounds like something that Sora can make for you.

• 3:02:13David Sims?

  Yeah, exactly. Now, easy.

• 3:02:14Griffin Newman?

  No, we want that handmade quality.

• 3:02:16David Sims?

  Um, I assume Sora is like the new head of AMPUS by this point. Uh, number four, the box office is a re-release of a Disney film. I assume it's Sean's favorite film of all time.

• 3:02:25Speaker 02

  I know this as well.

• 3:02:27Griffin Newman?

  You assume it's Sean's favorite. So that's a backhanded joke?

• 3:02:30Speaker 02

  It's a back.

• 3:02:30David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 3:02:31Griffin Newman?

  Song of the South?

• 3:02:32David Sims?

  That's right. In 1986, Disney decided we need to hear the song again.

• 3:02:39Griffin Newman?

  We, uh.

• 3:02:40Speaker 02

  What? No jokes now, Griffin?

• 3:02:41Griffin Newman?

  No, this is what I was gonna say.

• 3:02:42Speaker 02

  I've never seen this film.

• 3:02:44David Sims?

  I've only seen Zippity Doodah, which was included on a VHS.

• 3:02:48Griffin Newman?

  I've seen.

• 3:02:49David Sims?

  That I had that was like a compilation of songs.

• 3:02:51Griffin Newman?

  Couch Potato video had a ripped Canadian VHS.

• 3:02:55David Sims?

  And they would be like, stop asking the question.

• 3:02:58Speaker 02

  I don't know when the Disney Channel started, but I can, I feel pretty confident that we taped this off the Disney.

• 3:03:04David Sims?

  It's probably, you know, was.

• 3:03:06Griffin Newman?

  I mean, it was still being re-released.

• 3:03:08David Sims?

  In the eighties.

• 3:03:09Griffin Newman?

  Right. It just never got an American home video release.

• 3:03:11Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:03:12Griffin Newman?

  Uh, it did in other countries. I saw bootleg.

• 3:03:14Speaker 02

  It is straight up available to rent at Videotech on the east side of Los Angeles right now, if you want to see it.

• 3:03:19Griffin Newman?

  I feel like, uh.

• 3:03:20David Sims?

  And doing that doesn't put you on any kind of list.

• 3:03:23Speaker 02

  I haven't done it, so I wouldn't know. But I'm just telling people that if they would like to, they can.

• 3:03:27Griffin Newman?

  Drew McWeeny shared a story recently on Doughboys about Michael Jackson stealing the LaserDisc copy the video store he worked at had. No, I was just gonna say, when I went into my memory palace, I was trying to think of a good example, but the fantasy joke setup of putting, forcing the opinion on the other person on mic.

• 3:03:47Speaker 02

  Right, right. You do, you do to Chris a lot.

• 3:03:49Griffin Newman?

  This sort of like CR, congrats on Jimmy Kimmel getting kicked off the air. Finally, you're trying to. For you.

• 3:03:55Speaker 02

  Please don't demystify all of my moves. Sorry. I only have three, so I need to, just keep those tight. Ben, if you could just carve that out, I'd really appreciate it. I'm trying to, I've got very little to go on these days.

• 3:04:07Griffin Newman?

  Good moves.

• 3:04:08David Sims?

  Um, number five, the box office, we've also mentioned it won best actor this year. It's a legacy sequel.

• 3:04:13Griffin Newman?

  Uh, Color Money.

• 3:04:14David Sims?

  Yep. Which is really good.

• 3:04:17Speaker 02

  It is.

• 3:04:17David Sims?

  That is a movie that I spent my whole childhood thinking was bad or kind of whatever, because its rap was like, yeah, they gave, you know, Paul Newman an apology Oscar. You had to make a sequel to The Hustler. Marty was, then you watch it and you're like, better than basically any movie that exists.

• 3:04:33Speaker 02

  It's the most five star movies I've ever seen.

• 3:04:36Griffin Newman?

  I know we've been going for a while, but I now need to ask this question.

• 3:04:40David Sims?

  Okay.

• 3:04:40Griffin Newman?

  What would Harrison's Color of Money be? Obviously, it's not a literal legacy sequel, because he's done those and those are.

• 3:04:45David Sims?

  He's done every legacy sequel available, right?

• 3:04:47Griffin Newman?

  Not legacy sequel. I'm saying, what is the movie that would make them go, fuck, we have to give Harrison Ford the Oscars?

• 3:04:52Speaker 02

  John Book.

• 3:04:52David Sims?

  It's a good point, though. Like, bring Book back.

• 3:04:55Griffin Newman?

  I'm like, what is the type of role? Who would he work with? Is there a, an existing figure? A fucking like piece of literary material? Shrinking the movie.

• 3:05:05Speaker 02

  But doesn't it have to be witnessed because he already played this character?

• 3:05:09David Sims?

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 3:05:10Griffin Newman?

  I'm removing the legacy sequel.

• 3:05:11David Sims?

  I mean, okay. Well, then it's something else. But I mean, I guess you're talking about him working with a real director on a non legacy sequel thing.

• 3:05:18Griffin Newman?

  Right. He's become the king of the legacy sequel. So I'm, I'm putting that aside. I'm more saying the feeling of Color Money coming out and people being like, what are we supposed to do? Not give him the Oscar?

• 3:05:27Speaker 02

  I do think that 42 is probably as close as he gets to that kind of thing.

• 3:05:32Griffin Newman?

  And he's like a 20 layer ham sandwich in that movie.

• 3:05:35David Sims?

  And that movie is like, just okay.

• 3:05:40Speaker 02

  President of the Dodgers.

• 3:05:41Griffin Newman?

  I expect you to not. I just feel like.

• 3:05:44Speaker 02

  You weren't that locked into them.

• 3:05:46Griffin Newman?

  Branch Ricky. Big fucking bushy eyebrows. He's way over the top.

• 3:05:52David Sims?

  Yeah. Also, the top 10, you've got the Chuck Norris, Lou Gossett film Firewalker, a film I've never seen, a canon film. You've got Francis Ford Coppola's, you know, fairly underrated Peggy Sue Got Married. You've got Soul Man, Chris's other, I was trying to fuck.

• 3:06:10Speaker 02

  I called you Chris. Sean's other piss. You were making a joke that I would make it Chris, but of course now I will make it a Griffin, which is of course a movie that you would like to reclaim right now on the podcast. You, before we recorded, you said.

• 3:06:19Griffin Newman?

  I'm down to now.

• 3:06:20Speaker 02

  You know, I've been thinking about 1986 and the, the landscape of films and what made me laugh when I first saw it as I was rediscovering.

• 3:06:26Griffin Newman?

  I won't let you have a soul man. We all know that Paul Newman stole C. Thomas Howes Oscar.

• 3:06:33David Sims?

  Number nine, Stand By Me, a film, I will admit, I is sort of similar to The Goonies for me. I have never been able to really get into it.

• 3:06:42Speaker 02

  So funny you say that. The, one of the other podcasts that I did this week was the New York Times Book Podcast. And the subject was non horror Stephen King film adaptations.

• 3:06:51David Sims?

  Was it with Gilbert?

• 3:06:52Speaker 02

  It was with Gilbert.

• 3:06:53David Sims?

  Super fan.

• 3:06:54Speaker 02

  Of course Gilbert, one of the world renowned Stephen King experts and a mutual friend of ours. And Gilbert kind of set up the episode by saying the exact same thing, because for me, I don't really care about Stand By Me that much. It's not a big movie for me.

• 3:07:08David Sims?

  It's just, yeah, it's just one of those things where I'm like, well, I wasn't there. I wasn't there for this movie and I wasn't there for the nostalgic era it evokes. I don't think, I think the kids are good in it, right? And I think it like strikes the correct tone.

• 3:07:22Griffin Newman?

  But it's definitely generational past those things. I think many people our age and younger have claimed it as their own. After discovering it for the first time.

• 3:07:31Speaker 02

  Cable movie.

• 3:07:32Griffin Newman?

  Whatever. Just, yeah, never good for me.

• 3:07:33David Sims?

  Never for me.

• 3:07:34Griffin Newman?

  Talk about a fucking River Phoenix.

• 3:07:37David Sims?

  You know, a hundred percent River Phoenix is happening.

• 3:07:39Griffin Newman?

  Fully happening.

• 3:07:40David Sims?

  He's really good in that movie. And then number 10 is Top Gun.

• 3:07:43Griffin Newman?

  The biggest movie of the year.

• 3:07:44David Sims?

  Yep, absolutely. And

• 3:07:45Speaker 02

  When this was released, Top Gun was number 10 at the box office. Top Gun was released in May.

• 3:07:50David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, it's a different time.

• 3:07:51Griffin Newman?

  We used to be a proper country.

• 3:07:52David Sims?

  Has made 166 mil domestic at this point. So, uh, yeah, but of course, uh, Mosquito Coast, you would think made nothing, but actually, you know, it ends up, well, hmm, no, $10 million. Not very good. No, 14, 14 domestic total. So, yeah, pretty bad.

• 3:08:12Griffin Newman?

  And it cost 40?

• 3:08:12David Sims?

  No, it costs like 20 something, but still like, I think they could not recoup money, like, you know? Um, which is fine. It's okay. Harrison Ford tended to make really successful films and Weir goes on from this to Dead Poets? Or is there something in between? Uh, no.

• 3:08:32Griffin Newman?

  It's Dead Poets, yeah.

• 3:08:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, poets, yeah.

• 3:08:34David Sims?

  So.

• 3:08:35Speaker 02

  Who's doing Dead Poets? Do you guys know?

• 3:08:36Griffin Newman?

  Nia DeCosta.

• 3:08:37David Sims?

  Nia DeCosta's already been recorded.

• 3:08:38Griffin Newman?

  We can call that because it's in the can. That's a, that's a spoiler.

• 3:08:41Speaker 02

  Is that a big movie for her?

• 3:08:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:08:43David Sims?

  It's a big movie for her and she went to a boarding school like that.

• 3:08:46Griffin Newman?

  And wanted to be a poet.

• 3:08:48Speaker 02

  Really?

• 3:08:48David Sims?

  She did want to be a poet.

• 3:08:49Griffin Newman?

  We get into all of it. It's a good episode.

• 3:08:51Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 3:08:52David Sims?

  We had fun.

• 3:08:53Griffin Newman?

  Um, we've been potting so long.

• 3:08:56David Sims?

  And I'm sorry, Sean, you have really been subjected to a lot of us this week.

• 3:08:59Speaker 02

  No, I asked for it and I've been delighting in.

• 3:09:01David Sims?

  I know you enjoy it, but this is the final of four recordings that I have done with you or

• 3:09:06Speaker 02

  Extended Universe.

• 3:09:07David Sims?

  Yes, yes.

• 3:09:08Speaker 02

  Um, no, I'm, I'm, I'm very, I hope that your listeners are okay with a divorced and double exposed big picture situation.

• 3:09:17David Sims?

  Well, I, I was like, think, this actually is timing out well in that, uh, the live episode we did is published and then my episode that I did on Big Picture will come out soon. And then these will come out six months later. So it's like, you know, it's not overloading it.

• 3:09:29Speaker 02

  And then it's big picture week on Blank Check. And then we got to, what are you doing next solo?

• 3:09:33Griffin Newman?

  That's a good question. I mean, let me get back to you on that.

• 3:09:36Speaker 02

  Think about it.

• 3:09:36Griffin Newman?

  I might, I might steal on, I might look ahead on the release calendar, but yes, no, there will be a, a back to back big picture run on this podcast six months from now.

• 3:09:44David Sims?

  Right.

• 3:09:45Speaker 03

  If you want to do a deep dive into Harmony Corinne, I'm down.

• 3:09:48Speaker 02

  Deep dive like into it, how so?

• 3:09:50Speaker 03

  Hall of Fame. Photography, we could just like go through.

• 3:09:53David Sims?

  The new stuff?

• 3:09:53Speaker 02

  Where you at on kids?

• 3:09:55Speaker 03

  I'm obsessed.

• 3:09:56Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 3:09:57Griffin Newman?

  I bought him the umbrella, the hardback.

• 3:09:59Speaker 03

  For listeners at home, they can't see me, but I'm gyrating.

• 3:10:02David Sims?

  Okay.

• 3:10:03Speaker 02

  Where are you at on Beach Bum?

• 3:10:05Speaker 03

  Beach Bum is like fun.

• 3:10:07David Sims?

  Hasn't stuck with me, that one.

• 3:10:09Speaker 03

  Like, it feels very like I've like been smoking weed all day. And let's like, let's just hang out.

• 3:10:16Speaker 02

  Okay, here's the big question. Where are you at on Baby Invasion?

• 3:10:21Speaker 03

  Okay, someone recently, because I was talking shit on it, I like haven't really watched any of his like weird VR AI, whatever.

• 3:10:29David Sims?

  Edgelord.

• 3:10:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. I haven't watched any of it, but someone was like, listen, he's always been a cutting edge filmmaker. Give it a chance. Watch the films. Don't just like, just don't regurgitate what everyone else is saying.

• 3:10:40David Sims?

  But there definitely comes a point where, when if that's your thing and you're getting older, you might not be able to do it anymore, like be on the cutting edge. Like, yeah.

• 3:10:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, it just might not hit in the same way it would maybe for someone who's, you know, Gen Z.

• 3:10:52Speaker 02

  I do think, um, I do think that any Edgelord production commentary from you guys would be amazing. Amazing.

• 3:11:01Speaker 03

  My head hurts.

• 3:11:02Speaker 02

  Aggro drift.

• 3:11:03Speaker 03

  I'm leaving.

• 3:11:04Speaker 02

  They're like, I am the world's greatest assassin. Have you seen them?

• 3:11:07David Sims?

  I have not.

• 3:11:09Griffin Newman?

  If Edgelord, if Edgelord runs its course soon enough, we could just do Edgelord as a Patreon.

• 3:11:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, if they get like three movies.

• 3:11:18Speaker 02

  I haven't seen Baby Invasion yet, but I saw Aggro Drift in theaters and it was an experience.

• 3:11:25David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 3:11:26Speaker 02

  It was an experience. Very good. Okay. So Harmony Corin, that's what you want to do?

• 3:11:30Speaker 03

  With love.

• 3:11:31Speaker 02

  Okay. Those films are like not available.

• 3:11:33David Sims?

  Yeah, it's true.

• 3:11:34Speaker 02

  It's really hard to touch a lot of them. Gummo is in the Criterion Collection now, but you know, Julian Donkey Boy, where do you get that?

• 3:11:40David Sims?

  YouTube, baby.

• 3:11:41Speaker 02

  YouTube.

• 3:11:42Griffin Newman?

  That has to be coming from someone at some point, right?

• 3:11:45David Sims?

  Yeah, where's my Dogma box?

• 3:11:46Speaker 03

  My Dogma steel.

• 3:11:48Speaker 02

  Seriously.

• 3:11:48David Sims?

  Dogma 95.

• 3:11:49Speaker 02

  Where's my Criterion issue?

• 3:11:50Griffin Newman?

  Oh, well, Dogma, I was gonna say, we know where to buy that.

• 3:11:53David Sims?

  Dogma, but Dogma.

• 3:11:54Griffin Newman?

  Umbrella.

• 3:11:55David Sims?

  Dogma.

• 3:11:55Griffin Newman?

  Beanie included.

• 3:11:58Griffin Newman?

  Uh, thank you for being here.

• 3:11:59Speaker 02

  This is so fun.

• 3:12:01Griffin Newman?

  Everyone should listen to Big Picture and Harmony Corin Month coming to main feed soon.

• 3:12:05Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 3:12:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:12:06Speaker 02

  A true deep dive, but Ben solo episodes. We're not gonna be on.

• 3:12:10Griffin Newman?

  You and Amanda both on vacation. Especially in a rather pretty mini-series this year. You let just let Ben go off about Harmony Corin twice a week for a month. I'm just doing poppers, just rambling.

• 3:12:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'll talk to, uh, I'll talk to Bill Simmons about that.

• 3:12:25Griffin Newman?

  Um, I'll say this, this is far off. Can I do the fucking Masters of the Universe episode with you guys?

• 3:12:31Speaker 02

  I would love nothing.

• 3:12:32Griffin Newman?

  I think we gotta do that. When is that due out? June.

• 3:12:35Speaker 02

  That sounds so good.

• 3:12:36Griffin Newman?

  Okay, so let's say that. Booked. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Tune in next week for Dead Poets Society.

• 3:12:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:12:45Griffin Newman?

  With Nia DeCosta.

• 3:12:46Speaker 02

  DeCosta?

• 3:12:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Queen of the Bone Temple herself. You'll have seen it, you'll have seen it, you'll have moved in.

• 3:12:51Speaker 02

  Bones.

• 3:12:52Griffin Newman?

  And as always.

• 3:12:55Griffin Newman?

  Am I completely blanking?

• 3:12:58Griffin Newman?

  What are the best bits we've done in this episode?

• 3:13:01Griffin Newman?

  Everyone's just on their laptop now. Everyone's just typing.

• 3:13:03Speaker 02

  Three hours, come on.

• 3:13:04Griffin Newman?

  Our presence. I hope the listener thinks of me when they're going to the bathroom.

• 3:13:08Speaker 02

  There you go. I mean, look, honestly, they do, cuz it's a podcast and people listen to podcasts while they're peeing.

• 3:13:15Griffin Newman?

  Heard music.

• 3:13:18Speaker 03

  Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hostly. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas. And our associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lain Montgomery and the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minic. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to BlankCheckPod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes.

• 3:14:03Speaker 03

  Follow us on social at Blank Check Pod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.