Dead Poets Society with Nia DaCosta

Boys and girls, please open your textbooks. Rip out the pages. Carpe Diem. We're seizing the day and talking about 1989's Dead Poets Society with filmmaker Nia DaCosta in this episode, but don't get too wild and change your name to Nuwanda or anything! This week, we discuss House MD, prep schools, the fact that David Sims played Puck in a high school production, and Robin Williams' Oscar legacy. O Podcast, my podcast! Read about Franny's weirder cut https://www.worldofreel.com/blog/2025/7/21/francis-ford-coppola Check out Jack Black's YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@JackBlackOfficial Sign up for Check Book https://blankcheckpod.substack.com/welcome, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter https://x.com/blankcheckpod?lang=en, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/blankcheckpod/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@blankcheckpod?xmt=AQGzctAh4mbWTwYzCV1pzNT6AMV9o99EOfymi8TLR5mTde0 and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/blankcheckpodcast/! Buy some real nerdy merch https://kinshipgoods.com/blankcheck Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/s/gpcOkQr8Sv or Discord https://discord.gg/Q6YGSR3JrA For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com https://www.blankcheckpod.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 0:03David Sims?

  Yep.

• 0:03Griffin Newman?

  We did a live show.

• 0:04David Sims?

  Yeah, remember?

• 0:05Griffin Newman?

  Ranking Scorsese at the Bell House in Brooklyn. We did the definitive power ranking of Martin Scorsese things.

• 0:12David Sims?

  Uh, it was so fun. Uh, it was very silly.

• 0:15Griffin Newman?

  Ben and Marie were with us and they're with us right now.

• 0:18David Sims?

  Yeah, hey.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Hey, everyone, or should I say, oh?

• 0:20David Sims?

  Oh.

• 0:22Griffin Newman?

  And thanks to our friends at Dynasty Typewriter. It was livestreamed for the first time ever. But also, the replay is still up there, but only until October 30th.

• 0:31Speaker 03

  So just a few more days.

• 0:33David Sims?

  Yes.

• 0:33Speaker 03

  You can get it at dynasty.tv.

• 0:36David Sims?

  Dynasty.tv.

• 0:37Speaker 03

  It's $20. We had a blast and the Spreadmaster really got to work.

• 0:43David Sims?

  Oh, yeah. I was moving things around.

• 0:45Griffin Newman?

  Laptop was on.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  I don't know if I'd have seen you that happy.

• 0:48Griffin Newman?

  You were thrilled. You were like a pick and share.

• 0:50David Sims?

  I was locked in.

• 0:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, very locked in and you were funny.

• 0:53David Sims?

  Thank you. You were funny. You were also funny.

• 0:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, thank you.

• 0:57David Sims?

  And if you want to see like, you know, Griffin's shine box on camera, it's the only way to see it.

• 1:02Griffin Newman?

  You might see me shine Marie's shoes.

• 1:04David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you're into that sort of content.

• 1:07Griffin Newman?

  If that gets you off.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:10Speaker 03

  So once again, that's at dynasty.tv.

• 1:39Speaker 03

  We don't listen to and record podcasts because it's cute. We listen to and record podcasts because we are members of the human race. And the human race is filled with passion in medicine, law, business, engineering. These are noble pursuits and necessary to sustain life.

• 1:54Griffin Newman?

  But podcasts, beauty, romance, love, these are what we stay alive for.

• 1:59David Sims?

  Huh.

• 2:00Griffin Newman?

  Oh, oh, oh. I did that as vocal warmups. Now, look, there are-

• 2:04David Sims?

  He's not really doing huh, you know, he's not really doing that.

• 2:06Griffin Newman?

  No, but you still need to do it to get into the quiet.

• 2:08David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:09Griffin Newman?

  And then it's huh, huh.

• 2:10David Sims?

  But then when he does like the Brando impression, you're like, right, he needed just five minutes to just be silly guy.

• 2:16Griffin Newman?

  Let's just get straight into this, okay?

• 2:18David Sims?

  Okay.

• 2:18Griffin Newman?

  It is kind of astonishing. I know this has been much discussed.

• 2:22David Sims?

  Okay.

• 2:23Griffin Newman?

  But it's the first time we've tackled any of the movies in this set, okay? That Robin Williams has four Oscar nominations. He wins his fourth, right?

• 2:32David Sims?

  He wins the fourth time, yeah.

• 2:33Speaker 04

  Oh, I was saying his fourth Oscar, okay.

• 2:35Griffin Newman?

  He won, he won his fourth nomination for supporting actor. He had three-

• 2:38David Sims?

  Good Will Hunting.

• 2:39Griffin Newman?

  Best actor nominations. By the time he gets Good Will Hunting, it's like, is he overdue, right? The three movies all where they didn't give him the award feel like, hey, wow, incredible. You have found a movie where you can use Robin Williams as a dramatic actor and yet still let him do his thing.

• 3:00David Sims?

  So the first nomination, of course, was for Good Will, uh, sorry.

• 3:03Griffin Newman?

  Good Morning Vietnam.

• 3:05David Sims?

  Which is, he's at his most Robin Williams, you and he's on the, on the microphone and all that, right?

• 3:10Griffin Newman?

  Right. So Good Morning Vietnam.

• 3:11David Sims?

  Loses to Michael Douglas for Wall Street.

• 3:13Griffin Newman?

  Okay, kind of a freight train.

• 3:15David Sims?

  Yeah, I think so.

• 3:16Griffin Newman?

  Um, this year he loses two.

• 3:18David Sims?

  Daniel Day Lewis for My Left Foot.

• 3:20Griffin Newman?

  Quite a good performance.

• 3:22David Sims?

  And it's another freight train. He was never gonna win because Tom Cruise was supposed to win.

• 3:25Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 3:26David Sims?

  And Day Lewis for Born on the Fourth of July. And Daniel Day Lewis kind of comes on late.

• 3:29Griffin Newman?

  Fisher King.

• 3:30David Sims?

  Fisher King is his third nomination. Loses to, huh, Anthony Hopkins, Silence of the Lambs. Is that a good performance?

• 3:35Griffin Newman?

  I would argue-

• 3:36David Sims?

  Is that one lodged in the culture?

• 3:37Griffin Newman?

  Yet another freight train. There was this feeling perhaps of like, oh, he keeps being up against titans. Obviously Robin Williams is beloved and he, he's just over time becoming only a bigger and bigger star. But I also think there was this feeling of, are we gonna give him the Oscar when he's still kind of doing the Robin thing, right? Like, people were applauding the fact of like, oh my God, he can like carry a drama and he can like, carry these emotions and whatever. And yet, all these movies, Good Morning Vietnam. And Dead Poets Society are kind of ingeniously constructed to tap into the emotional sensitive side of Robin Williams and surprise you and yet allow him to do fucking riffs.

• 4:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:14Griffin Newman?

  Like, within the structure of him being an unconventional teacher and a radio host, he can just do 90 seconds of impressions in the middle of the movie.

• 4:22David Sims?

  Right.

• 4:22Griffin Newman?

  Then Fisher King is like, what if he doesn't do the riffs?

• 4:25David Sims?

  Right, he's sad.

• 4:26Griffin Newman?

  But it's a dramatic version of the manic comedy energy.

• 4:29David Sims?

  Sure.

• 4:30Griffin Newman?

  Whereas Good Morning Vietnam and Dead Poets Society are like dramatic tenor Robin Williams who occasionally does comedy riffs.

• 4:38Speaker 04

  And so is Good Will Hunting, basically Gus Van Sant being, just be sensitive and make us cry.

• 4:45Griffin Newman?

  It's true, listen.

• 4:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, and it felt like they were like, there we go.

• 4:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:49Griffin Newman?

  We just need to see that you could drop all of it.

• 4:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:51David Sims?

  I do think he was also overdue.

• 4:53Griffin Newman?

  He was.

• 4:54David Sims?

  And obviously, that's a role where it's just, you know, monologues and speechifying and like, you see, you know, making us cry and all that. Who'd he beat out there?

• 5:04Griffin Newman?

  It was, he beat up Burt Reynolds. Was seen as maybe

• 5:06David Sims?

  It was the competition.

• 5:07Griffin Newman?

  The odds on favorite to win.

• 5:08David Sims?

  But for Boogie Nights, who's great.

• 5:10Griffin Newman?

  But a perfect comeback.

• 5:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, we can't be doing all of that, yeah.

• 5:13Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 5:13Speaker 04

  That's, that's crazy.

• 5:14Griffin Newman?

  It's one of, it's a thing we're fascinated with. It's another example of someone like sweeps all the precursors and then you get to the Oscars and they lose. And it's like, because too many people in this academy have worked with that person.

• 5:24Speaker 04

  Or their speeches. I love when you, you, you watch like a Oscar, like, race or tour or whatever, and all the speeches before are so insufferable that by the time they get to the Oscars, it's just like, no, we're not doing it.

• 5:35Griffin Newman?

  There's absolutely that part of it.

• 5:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:36Griffin Newman?

  But I think, I always cite Eddie Murphy and Sylvester Stallone.

• 5:43Speaker 04

  Eddie Murphy would have been Dreamgirls.

• 5:44Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 5:44Speaker 04

  They were, yeah.

• 5:45Griffin Newman?

  He examples of like, they're winning everything until the big show.

• 5:48Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:48Griffin Newman?

  And the big show is a lot of people who are like, I fucking worked with him and he...

• 5:53Speaker 04

  And also them being like, we'll let you know that how you're all wrong.

• 5:55Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 5:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:56Griffin Newman?

  Right. Um, this movie has a lot of quotable dialogue.

• 5:59Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 6:00David Sims?

  Sure.

• 6:02Griffin Newman?

  What's that face? What's that fucking?

• 6:03David Sims?

  I don't like the screenplay for this movie at all. I think it's

• 6:06Griffin Newman?

  At all?

• 6:06David Sims?

  No, I'm not a fan.

• 6:07Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 6:08David Sims?

  Sorry.

• 6:08Griffin Newman?

  Interesting, I remembered in an episode

• 6:10David Sims?

  I think this is kind of like the, not a very good movie that is just so handsomely made and well acted that it kind of puts a spell on you a little bit. I don't like this movie

• 6:23Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 6:23David Sims?

  that much fundamentally.

• 6:25Speaker 04

  This is very upsetting. This is very, this is such a bomb drop at the beginning.

• 6:29Griffin Newman?

  David kind of coming in with like a, "Nia de Costa on the fog" take here.

• 6:32Speaker 04

  I know, I know.

• 6:33David Sims?

  I was literally just thinking about that. I cannot tell a lie.

• 6:36Griffin Newman?

  Heats off you. David's fucking taking the slings and arrows.

• 6:39David Sims?

  I cannot tell a lie.

• 6:40Speaker 04

  I was really, you know, I'm still aware of how depressing that episode was for everyone. So, um, thank you so much, David, for taking the mantle.

• 6:46Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 6:47Speaker 04

  Would you like to give a speech of any kind?

• 6:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Do you want to accept this honor of being the bad guy?

• 6:53David Sims?

  Uh, am I the bad guy? Am I just giving voice to some people who agree with me? I don't know.

• 6:58Speaker 04

  I don't, I, I, I can see where like in the structure of the screenplay, for example, it's a bit loosey goosey. You're like, we're over here, we're over there. I had questions actually about the ending spoiler alert, like how earned.

• 7:11David Sims?

  I would agree.

• 7:12Speaker 04

  What Dr. Wilson, where his story ends up.

• 7:14David Sims?

  Yes. Dr. Wilson of Robert John Leonard. He will forever be Dr. Wilson.

• 7:20Speaker 04

  Unfortunately. Um, and, but I, I think you're absolutely right in that it's so handsomely made. Like I was thinking so much about this, like how beautifully shot it was, how wonderfully acted it was. Because those scenes, like those, like two or three scenes leading up to that, um, to him taking his own life, are so upsetting, like, and so beautifully acted, like his conversation with his father, his conversation.

• 7:43Griffin Newman?

  Kurt Wood Smith on fire.

• 7:45Speaker 04

  Whoa, red.

• 7:46David Sims?

  Foot in your ass mode. It's true.

• 7:48Griffin Newman?

  It is so funny that like to our generation.

• 7:53David Sims?

  He wants to put his foot in your ass.

• 7:54Griffin Newman?

  You watch that 70's show and then you go back and you see like fucking Robocop and Dead Poets Society.

• 8:00David Sims?

  Kurt Wood Smith.

• 8:00Griffin Newman?

  And you're like, oh, it's weird to see like scary red foreman.

• 8:04Speaker 04

  Also, it's great casting then. You're like, oh, that makes so much sense that you would cast. Yeah.

• 8:08Griffin Newman?

  Because to everyone like 10 plus years older than us, they're like, how funny is it that that guy ended up being a sitcom dad? Making fun of how intense he is.

• 8:17Speaker 04

  No, it's, it's, have you seen the reboot?

• 8:19Griffin Newman?

  Uh, no, no, but it's all him, right? It's him with like the grandkids.

• 8:22Speaker 04

  It's him and the grandkids. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's always that weird uncanny valley of like a modern three camera, like multi-camera.

• 8:30Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 8:31Speaker 04

  Um, but he's just, I just love him so much.

• 8:33Griffin Newman?

  He rules.

• 8:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:34Griffin Newman?

  Sorry, you were about to say handsomely made, earned.

• 8:37David Sims?

  What?

• 8:38Griffin Newman?

  Those scenes, I feel like, yeah.

• 8:39David Sims?

  Yeah, Nia's. Well, Nia was possibly like inching towards the Vegas agreement with sort of my sentiment.

• 8:46Speaker 04

  What I'm not gonna do is go back to the fog.

• 8:48Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely.

• 8:49Speaker 04

  I love this movie. It made me cry.

• 8:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 8:51Speaker 04

  I took lots of notes and realized so much of my life is sort of, I went to New England boarding school for five years. So I was like, I know these people.

• 9:00David Sims?

  Right, right, right. You had this sort of experience. I mean, not in the 50s, obviously.

• 9:04Griffin Newman?

  Your Wikipedia, famously the most reliable resource.

• 9:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 9:08Griffin Newman?

  Says that you originally intended to be a poet?

• 9:11Speaker 04

  Oh, my gosh.

• 9:12Griffin Newman?

  Is that based in truth?

• 9:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, when I was six, if six-year-olds can originally intend anything.

• 9:17David Sims?

  Was to be a poet. No citation.

• 9:19Griffin Newman?

  No citation.

• 9:20David Sims?

  And when you were 16, apparently, this must be from an interview game or something. You took an AP English class and you read Heart of Darkness? And that led you to Apocalypse Now? And that led you to cinema?

• 9:32Speaker 04

  Well, what led me to cinema was my parents' divorce and becoming a latchkey kid.

• 9:36David Sims?

  Movies, baby.

• 9:38Speaker 04

  And watching HBO for hours during the summer. And being like, I don't know what's going on in Full Metal Jacket, but I want to keep watching it.

• 9:50Griffin Newman?

  We sent you, uh, let me, let me, first off, let me just say, just to be very clear, this is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

• 9:59David Sims?

  I'm David.

• 10:00Griffin Newman?

  A little slow, a little slow.

• 10:01David Sims?

  I was looking at this Wikipedia page.

• 10:03Speaker 04

  Uh-oh.

• 10:03Griffin Newman?

  It's a podcast about phonographies. Directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce. Baby, my captain?

• 10:16Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:17Griffin Newman?

  To the earlier point, I was setting up the other crazy thing about those four Robin Williams movies I cite is all four of them were huge motherfucking hits. That this guy was such a star at an era where the fucking Hollywood system still worked. Where his clout as a comedian could make a drama a blockbuster. This movie made $240 million worldwide in 1989.

• 10:43David Sims?

  This was a huge hit. Fisher King, I would say, is the one of the four.

• 10:46Griffin Newman?

  Fisher King was a hit.

• 10:48David Sims?

  It did, okay.

• 10:49Speaker 04

  It was not a hit on the same level.

• 10:50David Sims?

  Forty. Like Fisher King was just kind of like a made its budget back movie.

• 10:53Griffin Newman?

  Fisher King's worldwide was forty?

• 10:56Speaker 04

  That's a great, that's great for Terry Gilliam.

• 10:58Griffin Newman?

  We're upset. What was that domestic? The other three were huge.

• 11:01David Sims?

  I think it's, no, okay, let's see.

• 11:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, see, this is what I'm saying.

• 11:04David Sims?

  No, it's domestic was forty.

• 11:05Griffin Newman?

  There we go.

• 11:06David Sims?

  And it's worldwide was seventy. It's totally fine, totally fine, but like-

• 11:11Griffin Newman?

  The other three were genuine-

• 11:11David Sims?

  Good Morning Vietnam, this-

• 11:13Griffin Newman?

  Hundred million dollar-

• 11:14David Sims?

  What was the other? Obviously Good Will Hunting was a big hit. I don't know, and you know what else was a big hit was frickin' Aladdin and, uh, you know, Mrs. Doubtfire.

• 11:22Griffin Newman?

  I'm just saying, this guy, those are the-

• 11:24Speaker 04

  Why was the birdcage?

• 11:26David Sims?

  Birdcage was a huge hit. A huge hit. Birdcage made a ton of money.

• 11:30Griffin Newman?

  We're gonna talk about this. His nineties were incredible until he fell off a cliff. Basically, right after he wins the Oscar.

• 11:35David Sims?

  Well, he started, I mean, God bless him, he started making really bad movies. Like, I mean, he, I don't know-

• 11:40Speaker 04

  What was the first bad one?

• 11:42David Sims?

  I mean, I think Griffin's right that it's sort of like, uh, after the Oscar, he starts to pick out these projects that are so treacly-

• 11:49Griffin Newman?

  Jacob the Liar, What Dreams May Come.

• 11:52David Sims?

  Patch Adams, Jacob the Liar, Bicentennial Man. So it's like, these movies that are all like, big expensive movies that he will be the star of.

• 12:01Griffin Newman?

  Patch Adams is a giant hit. The other three are flops, but Patch Adams is also immediately reviled. Like, it being a hit made people hate it more.

• 12:08Speaker 04

  I feel like actors do this a lot, though, where they are like, now I'm the lead. And it's like, well, sometimes that supporting part is the best part of the movie.

• 12:17Griffin Newman?

  Dead Poets Society is a great example. He's on screen for thirty minutes. He's got a Best Actor nomination. He's above the title. He's Robin Williams.

• 12:24David Sims?

  He's sort of the lead, although you're right. It's an ensemble, I guess. There's no real, yeah, cause not even Robert Sean Leonard or Ethan Hawke are really, like, it's like, there's not even a lead kid.

• 12:34Griffin Newman?

  Robert Sean Leonard.

• 12:35David Sims?

  Sort of.

• 12:35Griffin Newman?

  But I, I looked up, there's the one account that does the fucking stop watching, and it's thirty-three minutes out of two hours and eight minutes. Let me just finish the intro, cause we're obviously getting deep into the weeds here. So my series on the phones of Peter Weir is called Podnick at Hanging Cast. Today, we're talking about Dead Poets Society. We are the Dead Podcaster Society.

• 12:54David Sims?

  Sure.

• 12:55Griffin Newman?

  Podk Castum?

• 12:57David Sims?

  Okay.

• 12:58Griffin Newman?

  Producer Ben has shown up-

• 12:59David Sims?

  Producer Ben is, uh, yeah, he's outfitted.

• 13:01Griffin Newman?

  He's fitting the dress code for the first time. We've always recommended a dress code here on Blank Check that we fail to abide by, but Ben has shown up in his finest.

• 13:12Griffin Newman?

  Morning school.

• 13:13David Sims?

  Yeah, wearing a striped tie, have a nice brown sports jacket on, some loafers.

• 13:18Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 13:19David Sims?

  I guess the only thing I'm wearing denim that wouldn't be allowed at a prep school.

• 13:24Griffin Newman?

  You have your glasses on.

• 13:25Speaker 04

  My school, you got to wear, um, well, my, my first boarding school, we, every other Saturday, we had a class for a half day, which obviously is, is terrorism.

• 13:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, that's actually the worst thing I've ever heard in my life.

• 13:36Speaker 04

  I know, it's terrible. And then, um, and then, but we got to wear jeans, wear casual dress.

• 13:40David Sims?

  Oh, yes, yes, right, sure, sure. My, I had to wear a uniform, which is so common in Britain, private school, public school, like, it's like, uh, I, I think it's still kind of the norm for so many schools.

• 13:51Griffin Newman?

  I've.

• 13:52David Sims?

  And at St. Anne's, was it recommended that you should really like, just wear like, whatever, household objects?

• 13:58Griffin Newman?

  I have shared this before, but in my freshman year at St. Anne's, the horrible school I went to.

• 14:04Speaker 04

  Where's St. Anne's?

• 14:05Griffin Newman?

  At, at Brooklyn Heights.

• 14:07Speaker 04

  Prep school?

• 14:08David Sims?

  No, it's like a fancy school with no homework.

• 14:09Griffin Newman?

  The fanciest fucking.

• 14:11Speaker 04

  Uh, water, energy.

• 14:13David Sims?

  Yeah, I mean, like, it was once back in the, it was founded as, uh, we're gonna be alternative.

• 14:19Griffin Newman?

  It was founded as, what if you build a whole school out of John Keating?

• 14:22David Sims?

  Right.

• 14:23Griffin Newman?

  But also maybe half of those John Keatings were sexual predators.

• 14:25David Sims?

  Well, there's a little bit of that going on.

• 14:27Speaker 04

  We'll find out later.

• 14:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 14:28David Sims?

  But, but now it's just a very fancy, there's lots of rich people in Brooklyn who want to send their kids to fancy private schools.

• 14:34Griffin Newman?

  I, as some weird meta-conceptual bit, being the most annoying, precocious child at the worst school, in freshman year, wore my own version of a school uniform for months.

• 14:47David Sims?

  Sounds cool.

• 14:47Griffin Newman?

  That was my big act of rebellion of like, you're all so fucking rebellious, I'm gonna dress like I'm part of the fuck.

• 14:52Speaker 04

  You're sheep.

• 14:53Griffin Newman?

  There was.

• 14:54Speaker 04

  I'm Griffin.

• 14:54Griffin Newman?

  So I did kind of dress the way Ben's dressed today.

• 14:58Speaker 04

  Ben doesn't look impressed.

• 15:00David Sims?

  No.

• 15:01Griffin Newman?

  Our guest today, returning to the show.

• 15:03David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 15:04Griffin Newman?

  For the fourth time.

• 15:05David Sims?

  Fourth appearance?

• 15:06Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 15:07Griffin Newman?

  Nia DaCosta.

• 15:08Speaker 04

  Hello.

• 15:08Griffin Newman?

  We are recording this very far in advance because you're a very, very busy.

• 15:12David Sims?

  Well, you're around and you got a couple of movies in the can.

• 15:14Griffin Newman?

  We have, we've recorded with directors who were like, oh, and by the time this episode comes out, your movie will have come out.

• 15:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:21Griffin Newman?

  You were the first person where we're recording at a point where by the time the episode comes out, two films will have come out.

• 15:27Speaker 04

  That's crazy. Yeah, yeah.

• 15:28David Sims?

  When does Heta come out?

• 15:29Griffin Newman?

  Director of Heta and 28 Days Later, colon, The Bone Temple.

• 15:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, I like to go 28 days, 28 years later.

• 15:35Griffin Newman?

  Excuse me, sir.

• 15:35Speaker 04

  Part two, The Bone Temple, and then ask everyone, where, where does the colon go?

• 15:40Griffin Newman?

  It's, these are the questions. I noticed the most, the new trailer that just came out at the time we're recording this, didn't have the part two.

• 15:48Speaker 04

  It doesn't, I just like to add it.

• 15:49Griffin Newman?

  Okay. I, we went to see the film.

• 15:54David Sims?

  At Heta?

• 15:54Speaker 04

  Oh, oh.

• 15:55Griffin Newman?

  I'm sorry, well, we saw Heta, but also when Ben and I saw it 28 years later.

• 16:00David Sims?

  Yes, right.

• 16:01Griffin Newman?

  At the end, the lights come up, right? After there's the, the big, uh, um, uh, the Jimmy's.

• 16:07Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:08Griffin Newman?

  Uh-huh, this crazy ending. And Ben turns to me and he goes, "I like how random that ending was, but part of me just wishes I could watch an entire movie of that." And I said, "Ben, do I have great news for you? It's already in the can, it's directed by our friend, and it's subtitled The Bone Temple." And it was like, his eyes turned into like three sevens.

• 16:27David Sims?

  My eyes started turning into like, um, like a slot machine and it just landed on bones.

• 16:33Speaker 04

  Your tongue flopped out of your mouth?

• 16:33David Sims?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 16:34Speaker 04

  Yes, that, I will say tonally, my film is quite different from the, um, the energy of that scene. But, um, but yeah, it is, it is, the Jimmy's are our focal point in the film. And they're, they're just.

• 16:46David Sims?

  Is The Bone Temple gonna be okay? I understand you probably can't answer this question.

• 16:51Griffin Newman?

  By the time this episode comes out, we will have recorded an episode on us having seen the film.

• 16:57David Sims?

  I'm like, they're gonna fuck up all his bones.

• 16:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, let's keep the bones intact.

• 17:01Speaker 04

  It is okay in the end.

• 17:02Griffin Newman?

  Okay, great.

• 17:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 17:03David Sims?

  Thank god. That's actually great news, I'm actually buoyed by that, that's great.

• 17:07Griffin Newman?

  We saw Heta, though.

• 17:08Speaker 04

  Oh, thank you for going, thank you so much.

• 17:09Griffin Newman?

  Which I love.

• 17:10Speaker 04

  Oh, thank god.

• 17:11David Sims?

  Which sucks! No, no, no, it's, it's actually awesome, yes.

• 17:15Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 17:16Griffin Newman?

  I really, I really loved it.

• 17:17Speaker 04

  I did ask your dad, I said, "Did Griffin like it?"

• 17:18Griffin Newman?

  I met my dad as well.

• 17:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was, which was amazing.

• 17:20Griffin Newman?

  Yes, uh, my dad also loved it.

• 17:22David Sims?

  Let's talk about the Dead Poets Society, come on, guys.

• 17:24Griffin Newman?

  Okay, so you go to boarding school.

• 17:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, I went to boarding school.

• 17:28Griffin Newman?

  Does this happen after your parents divorce? Where, where is this in the timeline? I wanna put all this together.

• 17:32Speaker 04

  My parents got divorced when I was nine.

• 17:34Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 17:34David Sims?

  Rude.

• 17:35Speaker 04

  And, and it was very disrespectful, but thank god they did, um, and.

• 17:38David Sims?

  Yes, you're right.

• 17:39Speaker 04

  It was the right thing, um. I went to print school for eighth through twelfth grade.

• 17:44Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 17:45Speaker 04

  But I was in a private school when I was younger and then public school for a bit, right after my parents divorce. And my mother's huge on education and she was like, we're not doing this anymore. She was like, you know, like in New York City, you have to go to the school where you're living.

• 17:58Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 17:58Speaker 04

  And so the first thing we tried was she gave her office address so I can go to a better school downtown.

• 18:03Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 18:03Speaker 04

  And like day one, they were like, can we have Nina Costa come to the principal's office, please?

• 18:07Griffin Newman?

  Fucking.

• 18:08Speaker 04

  They were like, get out.

• 18:09David Sims?

  Oh, they they they rumpled you.

• 18:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, they did. But then I went, ended up going to Robert Wagner on the Upper East Side.

• 18:14Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 18:14Speaker 04

  And then when it came time to like.

• 18:16Griffin Newman?

  Cause you were, you grew up in Harlem?

• 18:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, more or less, yeah. Yeah, I was born in Brooklyn, raised mostly in Harlem, had a stint in Queens.

• 18:21Griffin Newman?

  East or west?

• 18:22Speaker 04

  Uh, west.

• 18:23Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 18:23Speaker 04

  So I was like, kind of like near one forty fifth, ABCD.

• 18:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 18:26Speaker 04

  Station, yeah.

• 18:27Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 18:27Speaker 04

  And, yeah, exactly.

• 18:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 18:29Speaker 04

  And we, my, I think seventh and sixth and seventh grade, my mom was like, you know, we can do better. And so we started looking at private schools. I almost went to Spence.

• 18:40David Sims?

  Wow.

• 18:40Speaker 04

  Which would have been, I think I would have been a shell of a person.

• 18:42David Sims?

  I I I don't, these, these, you know, upper crust, upper, upper crust places, I can't imagine what the kids are like.

• 18:50Speaker 04

  No, I I know some Spence girls and they're like, you you escaped.

• 18:54Griffin Newman?

  Spence has some Dead Poets Society energy.

• 18:56David Sims?

  I'm sure it does. I met a girl who went to one of those schools. I don't think it it might have been.

• 19:00Speaker 04

  Nantucket Banff.

• 19:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 19:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:02David Sims?

  And like, I was like, oh, I grew up in New York, like, you know, I said something about how I always loved taking the subway as a kid because I did.

• 19:10Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 19:11David Sims?

  This came up.

• 19:11Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 19:12David Sims?

  And she was like, yeah, I never took the subway until I was a grown up. And I was, it was just, I was like, and you went to school like.

• 19:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 19:18David Sims?

  Fucking, you know, across the park from where I grew and like you'd never ever like, it was like a whole other life.

• 19:24Griffin Newman?

  Sorry?

• 19:24Speaker 04

  How old were you for your first subway ride, yeah?

• 19:27David Sims?

  I would, a baby, I imagine. I don't know.

• 19:30Speaker 04

  Solo, solo.

• 19:31David Sims?

  Oh, that's a good question. You know, I started, well, I had moved to London by then.

• 19:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 19:35David Sims?

  But I started taking myself to school when I was ten.

• 19:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:38David Sims?

  And my guess would be that would be like when I was first.

• 19:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, mine was nine.

• 19:41Griffin Newman?

  See, my thing was, right, nine eleven happens when I'm twelve. I feel like I had just started to get independent subway.

• 19:51Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 19:52Griffin Newman?

  Rights?

• 19:52Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 19:53Griffin Newman?

  And then I got knocked back. Then there was, there was a year of my parents being like, the subway is going to be blown up. You cannot get on it.

• 20:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 20:00Griffin Newman?

  Um, my, my parents are weirdly fucking not subway riders.

• 20:04Speaker 04

  Where, where, what neighborhood did you grow up in?

• 20:06Griffin Newman?

  I grew up in the West Village, but it's, they're just crazy people. My dad would fucking like, would lease a car and drive it everywhere and just be upset all the time.

• 20:13David Sims?

  That's what I'm talking about.

• 20:14Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 20:14David Sims?

  But, um.

• 20:15Griffin Newman?

  But I lived in New York for decades. So I, I had to like come by my love of the subway.

• 20:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, on your own time.

• 20:21Griffin Newman?

  Not that they didn't take me on it, but it was not their, yeah.

• 20:24David Sims?

  Ben, you want to win?

• 20:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, I just wanted to share. I actually went to an unprep school.

• 20:28David Sims?

  Oh.

• 20:29Speaker 04

  Where are you from, Ben?

• 20:29Speaker 03

  You were unprepped. Jersey.

• 20:31Speaker 04

  Oh, I'm so sorry.

• 20:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:32Speaker 04

  Continue.

• 20:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:32David Sims?

  They wanted you not prepared for anything.

• 20:35Speaker 03

  So it was, it was an unprepared Tory school.

• 20:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, good.

• 20:39Speaker 03

  And I left and I didn't know what the fuck I was gonna do.

• 20:42David Sims?

  It is so rude that prep schools, I didn't, you know, like, I never went to a prep school, but like, they're like, we're prep schools.

• 20:47Griffin Newman?

  The backhanded implication.

• 20:50David Sims?

  Are schools not generally?

• 20:51Griffin Newman?

  Unlike some of these other schools.

• 20:52David Sims?

  Supposed to prepare.

• 20:53Griffin Newman?

  It's the Fersley difference.

• 20:55David Sims?

  Why do you get to be the prep?

• 20:56Griffin Newman?

  We always have apples.

• 20:57Speaker 04

  I never thought about that.

• 20:59David Sims?

  Anyway, I assume it's probably rooted in some, you know, awful thing a Victorian person said.

• 21:03Speaker 04

  Probably, ooh, something dark. But were you in like, like what part, what kind of Jersey were you in?

• 21:08Speaker 03

  So just an hour outside of the city.

• 21:11Speaker 04

  My city, this city.

• 21:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:12David Sims?

  In my city.

• 21:13Speaker 04

  So, sorry, I was just like, I just started thinking about Jersey cities.

• 21:16Speaker 03

  So extremely suburban.

• 21:18Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 21:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, like kinda near Patterson, that area.

• 21:20Speaker 04

  Okay, okay.

• 21:21Griffin Newman?

  It was a small area, only a couple bone temples.

• 21:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:25Griffin Newman?

  Not like a major hub. Uh, what boarding school did you end up going to?

• 21:29Speaker 04

  Um, uh, I went to the Ramsey Hall School in Connecticut.

• 21:32Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 21:32Speaker 04

  And then I went to the Master School in Westchester.

• 21:34Griffin Newman?

  You, uh.

• 21:35David Sims?

  That's an intense name for a school.

• 21:37Speaker 04

  The Master School?

• 21:38David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 21:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, it used to be all girls. Elizabeth Masters was the founder of the school.

• 21:41Griffin Newman?

  There we go.

• 21:42Speaker 04

  I wasn't like, we're gonna be masters of the universe.

• 21:45David Sims?

  Or it wasn't like big Paul Thomas Anderson fans, or they were just like.

• 21:48Speaker 04

  No, thank God.

• 21:49Griffin Newman?

  Founded in 2013?

• 21:50Speaker 04

  Pan jobs and, actually probably, real high school students after all.

• 21:53David Sims?

  I'm sure a San Ana job or two.

• 21:55Speaker 04

  Pan jobs, I'm so sorry.

• 21:56Griffin Newman?

  Cannot promise.

• 21:57Speaker 04

  I know, that's, in the Math Resource Center. Um.

• 22:00Griffin Newman?

  No, cause we. Knowing you had like a back to back press tours coming up and you were gonna be in town now. The schedule for the whole first six months. Of twenty six. And you threw out a couple, but we were immediately like Dead Poets is interesting, not knowing the level of connections.

• 22:18Speaker 04

  Well, that was what was so crazy because I literally, and I guess we can talk about the movie now, but I literally, when I got to the yop scene, I was like, oh, my god. Mr. Ketchum made us go outside and yop. I was like, and I'm like.

• 22:30David Sims?

  What is this word you are using?

• 22:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:34Griffin Newman?

  The thing he makes Ethan Hawke.

• 22:35David Sims?

  Yeah, right.

• 22:36Griffin Newman?

  The primal, a primal yop. But Mr. Ketchum was your Mr. Keaton.

• 22:40Speaker 04

  Absolutely. Yeah, and I was. Ash Ketchum.

• 22:44David Sims?

  He taught you how to rear Pokemon.

• 22:50Speaker 04

  But he was, um, he was amazing. And, and, um, my, when I started, I think we were in, it was in eighth grade. In the equivalent of whatever AP English should be for an eighth grader, but, um, we were reading like Faulkner and Walt Whitman and E. E. Cummings and William Carlos Williams and. And now I look back at it, I'm like, of course we're yopping, like Arbor Park, yopping around, you know, whatever. It's like, so I was, I was like, oh, he's clearly watched this movie and he's obsessed.

• 23:16Griffin Newman?

  When did you see it?

• 23:18Speaker 04

  The first time?

• 23:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 23:19Speaker 04

  Well, it was on TV a lot, wasn't it?

• 23:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I, I saw it on TV in high school. Absolutely.

• 23:23Speaker 04

  I never, I had the same experience of Sound of Music where it's so long because of the commercials that you never get to the Nazis. I never got to the suicide and so I rewatched it a couple of years ago and I, and I was, ah, ah, I was like, no. What's happening?

• 23:39David Sims?

  It's fair.

• 23:39Speaker 04

  It was so crazy.

• 23:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 23:41David Sims?

  Um, because I feel like, right, everyone's like, yeah, well, he gets fired and they all get on their desks, right? Yeah, like, I mean, that's sort of what everyone references with Dead Poets Society.

• 23:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:50David Sims?

  I saw this film when I was like twelve or thirteen years old. Uh, we, I rented it with my friend Saba, uh, and she loved Ethan Hawke. And she was like going through an Ethan Hawke phase.

• 24:01Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 24:01David Sims?

  And she was like, I want to rent this movie from, like, it was back in the day when you still would be like, we're gonna go to the video store and rent a movie. And I was like, oh, yeah, I've never seen that movie. I know that. That's like a good movie, right? And I watched it with her and I thought it was okay and we both cried and I never saw it again. And then I watched it today, or not, you know, the other couple of days ago. And I was kind of impressed by how, obviously, it's a culturally significant, like, it's in the air.

• 24:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 24:30David Sims?

  But I was like, damn, I remember like, almost all of this. I haven't seen it in like 25 years.

• 24:35Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 24:35David Sims?

  And it made me cry. When they said, oh, Captain, my captain. And I was kind of like, this is bullshit. Cause like, I don't even like this movie that much. And I'm a pretty easy cry, but I'm like, I know they're gonna do it. Like, it's like, I'm not exactly like, getting caught off guard by, oh, Captain, my captain.

• 24:53Griffin Newman?

  It's like, kind of a magic trick movie in that sense, where you're just like, you, you can't not get hit by that.

• 24:59David Sims?

  It did work me up.

• 25:00Speaker 04

  I cried a couple of times watching it.

• 25:01David Sims?

  And I have kids now, and I, you know, there's things that this, there are buttons this movie.

• 25:05Griffin Newman?

  You yell at your children every day that they gotta be doctors. Yelling at twin babies.

• 25:09David Sims?

  It's just such a weird conflict. Where he's like, you can't be an amateur actor in any sense.

• 25:16Griffin Newman?

  Also, just like, I'm sorry, if yours on is Robert Sean Leonard, you're not changing that path. He has the most fucking theater actor-y face.

• 25:22Speaker 04

  So true.

• 25:23Griffin Newman?

  No one has ever looked more.

• 25:24David Sims?

  His pretty little face.

• 25:25Griffin Newman?

  Like an actor, and had the demeanor of an actor, the Robert Sean Leonard.

• 25:29Speaker 04

  Doesn't the acting thing come so late in the game?

• 25:32Griffin Newman?

  Pretty late.

• 25:32Speaker 04

  Dude, cause I was like, did I miss him mentioning liking acting before he was like, it's my passion in life?

• 25:36Griffin Newman?

  No, it like, finds him like halfway through.

• 25:39Speaker 04

  Right, and then he's immediately in the play.

• 25:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, he's sort of like, it, it feels like he auditions without having told you or anyone that it's a thing he's ever had a desire for. And he immediately is like, which, you know, there are certain, there is a type of actor who is like that.

• 25:56Griffin Newman?

  Who's just like, yeah, my friend asked me to like, be in their short film. Now I'm actually think I might like, start auditioning and stuff. Like, maybe I wanna do this. Um, I, I saw it in high school.

• 26:04David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 26:04Griffin Newman?

  Uh, similar to you, like, high school was just like, cable movie channels all the time. I'm like checklist obsessive, I need to watch all the movies. And anything like this that was referenced so much, that I knew had Oscar nominations, it's like, that's stuff you have to cross off the list, right? Hadn't seen it since then. David, I feel like, at some point the last year or two of the podcast, it maybe came up in a box office game.

• 26:29David Sims?

  Sure, it certainly did, because the box office game we'll be playing is, uh... Is, is.

• 26:34Griffin Newman?

  A movie?

• 26:35David Sims?

  A movie we've covered before, I think, yeah.

• 26:36Griffin Newman?

  And you said like, does Dead Poets Society suck? And I was a little surprised by that take, knowing that you love Peter Weir.

• 26:42David Sims?

  Love Peter Weir.

• 26:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. The big mini-series.

• 26:44David Sims?

  I love Robin Williams.

• 26:45Griffin Newman?

  You've been beating the drum for, for so long.

• 26:47David Sims?

  And I love private preparatory education, single sect. That's how I think it should be done, always.

• 26:53Griffin Newman?

  Not having seen this movie in 20 years, I was like, huh, that, the take kinda sounds, I could buy that. Yeah, sure. If I watch that now, am I gonna roll my eyes at all of this, right? And then I watched it last night and I was like, I think this thing totally works. Yeah. I do not think it is one of Weir's best films. And I agree with you that it's like, what works is, I think, the decision and the control and the taste that he applies to it. But I also, like, I think this script works. I think it is like.

• 27:22David Sims?

  You know, I, I agree with that, that it works. It's a, well, yes, yes, it's a, it's a, it's a machine, like, that it, it does what it's supposed to do.

• 27:29Griffin Newman?

  I was very ready for In My Mind's Eye, not having seen it since I was a teenager, being like, I'm gonna be more cynical about this now. I'm gonna have my bullshit meter up really high for, like, manipulation, you know? And I, I think the script is, like, pretty controlled. Now, we'll talk about it. The guy had one of the most insane post-Oscar careers that we've discussed before. Peter Weir? Uh, no, not Peter Weir, the screenwriter who wins the Oscar for this.

• 27:55David Sims?

  Tom Schulman.

• 27:56Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 27:57David Sims?

  Uh, this was, wasn't this his first?

• 27:59Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 27:59David Sims?

  Uh, you know, exactly. And, uh, he goes on.

• 28:03Griffin Newman?

  Semi-autobiographical script that he.

• 28:04David Sims?

  It's about a teacher who inspired him, yada, yada, yada.

• 28:07Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 28:07David Sims?

  He gets put on Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, his job is to make it a comedy, is that right?

• 28:11Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 28:12David Sims?

  It was like a late rewrite thing?

• 28:13Griffin Newman?

  From the Stuart Gordon version, which I think was more sci-fi, which of course he wanted to call Teeny Weenies.

• 28:19David Sims?

  And then it's like, a bunch of big scripts, well, two, What About Bob?

• 28:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 28:25David Sims?

  Uh, which is, you know, great movie. It's a fun movie. It's kind of a hit. And Medicine Man, George Miller's Medicine Man. I'm sorry, John McTernan's Medicine Man.

• 28:34Griffin Newman?

  Right. That's why we talked about it.

• 28:35David Sims?

  Horrendous.

• 28:35Griffin Newman?

  A horrendous movie. I'm like, who the fuck wrote this?

• 28:38Speaker 04

  Should I watch it?

• 28:39David Sims?

  Yeah, go ahead. You know what?

• 28:40Griffin Newman?

  I kinda should watch it.

• 28:41Speaker 04

  I should watch all John McTernan's, yeah.

• 28:42Griffin Newman?

  You should. Yeah.

• 28:44David Sims?

  Then he wrote and directed the film Eight Heads in a Duffel Bag.

• 28:49Griffin Newman?

  A bang favorite?

• 28:50David Sims?

  Comedy. Have you ever seen it?

• 28:51Speaker 04

  No.

• 28:52David Sims?

  It's pretty fun.

• 28:53Speaker 04

  I should watch all the Joe Pesci's.

• 28:54David Sims?

  There's, um, there's like eight heads in a duffel bag.

• 28:58Speaker 04

  Tell me more.

• 28:59David Sims?

  And so basically. Gets lost or something? I watched it. It gets lost. Joe Pesci plays a hitman.

• 29:05Speaker 04

  You know, I'll hold my questions until after I observe the film.

• 29:08David Sims?

  His last, yeah, fair, yeah, you should hold your question. His last, oh, no, no, Jesus, then it's Holy Man, the Eddie Murphy.

• 29:15Griffin Newman?

  Which I watched for the first time recently and is one of the most insane films I have ever.

• 29:18Speaker 04

  Wait, is that the, no, I'm thinking of Golden Child. Never mind.

• 29:20David Sims?

  Yeah, Golden Child's alright.

• 29:22Speaker 04

  I enjoyed that.

• 29:23Griffin Newman?

  Holy Man stays. It's like almost impossible to describe, but it like feels like trying to make a Dead Poets Society for Eddie Murphy. It is weirdly like more of a drama and also much like Dead Poets Society, Eddie Murphy is maybe only in thirty minutes of the movie and Jeff Goldblum's actually the lead.

• 29:41David Sims?

  Right.

• 29:42Griffin Newman?

  But the premise is that Eddie Murphy is like a weird spiritual guru they find on the side of the road who's maybe magical or is like a lunatic, someone with like mental illness and amnesia.

• 29:53Speaker 04

  I think I've seen this.

• 29:54Griffin Newman?

  And Jeff Goldblum is an exec who works for a cable shopping channel.

• 29:57David Sims?

  Who like makes him a sort of TV star.

• 29:59Griffin Newman?

  And it almost becomes like a network thing where he like goes on these long rants, like anti-consumerist rants, but it makes the sales go up. So he's commodifying this. It's insane, insane movie.

• 30:11Speaker 04

  Is that, do you think that was an inspiration for, um, One Million Merits?

• 30:14Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely.

• 30:16David Sims?

  Good. I love One Million Merits.

• 30:18Speaker 04

  Oh, well.

• 30:19David Sims?

  Um, Welcome to Mooseport is, uh, his final, basically his final credit.

• 30:25Griffin Newman?

  Recently and is not a very good movie.

• 30:26David Sims?

  Uh, which is Gene Hackman's final film.

• 30:28Griffin Newman?

  That guy just starts his career with like a fucking seismic, he wins the Oscar for an original screenplay and then you're just like.

• 30:36Speaker 04

  That happens not infrequently.

• 30:39Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely.

• 30:40Speaker 04

  It's so interesting.

• 30:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 30:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:52Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 30:53David Sims?

  Yes.

• 30:53Griffin Newman?

  Moooo.

• 30:56David Sims?

  Is that the Cine's cow?

• 30:58Griffin Newman?

  The Cine's cow is back.

• 30:59David Sims?

  Haven't heard from her in a while.

• 31:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, she's reactivated because she's horny for chicken fingers.

• 31:05David Sims?

  Okay.

• 31:06Griffin Newman?

  And she's excited for the streaming debut of Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma.

• 31:10David Sims?

  Wow.

• 31:11Griffin Newman?

  The cow likes chicken.

• 31:13David Sims?

  Remember cow and chicken? Let's look it up while you tell the great listeners about the great stuff on MUBI.

• 31:20Griffin Newman?

  Well, MUBI is a global film company bringing great cinema to the world and to you. Curating and elevating visionary filmmaking, all handpicked, always. That's what MUBI does. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma.

• 31:31David Sims?

  Yes.

• 31:32Griffin Newman?

  One of my favorite movies of the year.

• 31:33David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 31:34Griffin Newman?

  You can feel the rush now at home. There's a hole at the bottom of the lake where the movies come from.

• 31:40David Sims?

  That is a line in the movie.

• 31:41Griffin Newman?

  In the new movie from Jane Schomburg, Past and Future Guest.

• 31:43David Sims?

  Past and Future Guest, a great filmmaker, a great podcast guest.

• 31:47Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 31:48David Sims?

  Great friend.

• 31:48Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 31:49David Sims?

  Um, this movie rocks. It's got, of course, it stars Hannah Einbinder and Gillian Anderson.

• 31:54Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 31:55David Sims?

  Legends, and I tip my cap, but Zach Cherry.

• 31:57Griffin Newman?

  Performances, friend of the show.

• 31:58David Sims?

  Friend of the show, Zach Cherry.

• 32:00Griffin Newman?

  Zach Cherry.

• 32:01David Sims?

  Also in it.

• 32:02Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 32:03David Sims?

  Such a cool movie, won the Queer Pal McCann. If you haven't heard about this movie, I don't know what's going on with you, but like, it obviously has, it was out in theaters this summer and now it's on MUBI.

• 32:13Griffin Newman?

  Hannah Einbinder plays the filmmaker attempting to reboot the Camp Miasma franchise, trying to track down the original final girl from the first movie to, to make some sort of legacy sequel, who's played by Gillian Anderson, who lives at the summer camp.

• 32:28David Sims?

  Yes, and you know, and then they hang out and it's regular.

• 32:32Griffin Newman?

  What happens?

• 32:34Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's one of those Hollywood's out of ideas. No, it's very much a movie about Hollywood being out of ideas while being an example of there still being new stories to tell.

• 32:44David Sims?

  It's now streaming exclusively on MUBI and you can try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.com slash Blank Check. That's M U B I dot com slash Blank Check for a whole month of great cinema for free.

• 32:56Griffin Newman?

  They got so many great movies on there to watch, but worth it for 30 days for Miasma.

• 33:01David Sims?

  Damn right.

• 33:07Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 33:08David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 33:08Griffin Newman?

  It's not cuffing season for me, it's cozy season for me. And this year, that meant finally upgrading my new mattress from Lisa.

• 33:16David Sims?

  Lisa!

• 33:17Griffin Newman?

  It's supportive, comfortable, and just what my body needs after a long day. It makes crawling into bed on a chilly fall night feel like luxury.

• 33:24David Sims?

  Yeah, I have a Lisa too. Uh, they've got a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep.

• 33:30Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:31David Sims?

  Each mattress is designed with specific sleep positions and feel preferences in mind. They've got eco-friendly materials.

• 33:37Griffin Newman?

  Maybe you hear eco-friendly and you go, oh, but I'm gonna sacrifice comfort.

• 33:41David Sims?

  No.

• 33:41Griffin Newman?

  Nope.

• 33:42David Sims?

  They've been awarded best hybrid and best memory foam mattresses by New York Times' Wirecutter. They're featured by West Elm as their go-to mattress partner. And they work with local nonprofits across the US to donate thousands of mattresses each year to families in need. Over 43,000 mattresses donated to date. Go to lisa.com for up to 30% off mattresses. Plus, get an extra $50 off with promo code BLANKCHECK. Exclusive for our listeners. That's L-E-E-S-A.com promo code BLANKCHECK for up to 30% off mattresses plus an extra $50 off. Let them know we sent you. And the survey after checkout, lisa.com promo code BLANKCHECK.

• 34:29Griffin Newman?

  David!

• 34:30David Sims?

  Yes?

• 34:31Griffin Newman?

  Shop.com is giving away $1 million in Shop Cash.

• 34:35David Sims?

  Wow. Shop has all the stores you love and lets you track every order in one spot.

• 34:40Griffin Newman?

  I love that, it's very convenient.

• 34:41David Sims?

  And now, 1,000 shoppers are each gonna win $1,000 in Shop Cash just in time for the holidays.

• 34:49Griffin Newman?

  You get gifts for everyone on your list, or get yourself something a little merry and bright. Find exactly what you're looking for at shop.com.

• 34:57David Sims?

  Uh, got stocking stuffers, maybe the sickest luxury items. Cookware to kicks, toys to high tech, even tinsel and tree toppers. Type in what you're looking for to instantly search every shop at once. Okay, that's shop.com. You can just go click around, find brands you love, search across all the stores, track every order in one spot.

• 35:21Griffin Newman?

  From cult favorites to the world's biggest brands, score suite deals and check out fast all at shop.com. Enter to win the $1 million shop cash giveaway from now until November 1st. Just go to shop.com. There are so many ways to win. That's shop.com. Shopping designed around you. No purchase necessary. Restrictions apply. Official rules available at shop.com.

• 35:55David Sims?

  Do you want me to open the dossier? Why not?

• 35:56Griffin Newman?

  Crack open the dossier.

• 35:57David Sims?

  Yes. Okay. So Tom Schulman was disheartened, I guess, the early arc of his career, trying to be a Hollywood screenwriter. He was writing stuff, like probably trying to get stuff sold, right? You know, that he was, he was just writing genre stuff and comedies and whatever. And he writes Dead Poets, not thinking of it as a commercial script, but more, you know.

• 36:19Griffin Newman?

  Call and card writing sample.

• 36:20David Sims?

  Paying homage to this teacher he had. He said, a very volcanic teacher who talked about theater and acting and movies. And we'd all go out to drinks and, you know, he imbued me in my, not him and the teacher, I think, him and the other students. But they were all like, you know, fired up by this teacher.

• 36:36Griffin Newman?

  It's like that classic story of like, someone's trying to break through in Hollywood. No one will open the door for them and then, you know, someone gives them the advice of just like, write the movie that only you can write. What's the personal story that only you have? That's the thing. Right?

• 36:53David Sims?

  Uh, so he's got all this nostalgia. He went to Montgomery Bell Academy in Nashville, Tennessee.

• 37:00Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 37:01David Sims?

  And he also, I guess, had a stern dad who didn't want him to, you know,

• 37:06Griffin Newman?

  Be a Hollywood star.

• 37:07David Sims?

  Or whatever.

• 37:07Griffin Newman?

  Didn't want him to.

• 37:08David Sims?

  Be in Hollywood. Right.

• 37:09Griffin Newman?

  No son of mine will ever put heads in a duffel bag.

• 37:11David Sims?

  Uh, his, the real teacher's name is Samuel F. Pickering, Jr. And it, much like the character in Dead Poets Society, he was an alum who had returned as a teacher and much like Dead Poets Society, he left pretty quickly. I'm not sure if he got fired or anything, but like he moved on and then he ends up at the University of Connecticut. He becomes a bit of a minor celebrity.

• 37:31Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 37:31David Sims?

  After this movie comes out, obviously, because he's the real Dead Poets Society guy. Schulman decides to set the film in the 50s, even though he, this, I think, had more this experience in the 60s. He'd been born in the, in 1950. I do think this movie is, has no sense of when it's set.

• 37:49Griffin Newman?

  I agree.

• 37:49David Sims?

  And it sort of gets away with it because boarding schools are weird and hermetic and like trapped in time or whatever. But I, I'm like, I think it was Hooperman's review. I was reading old reviews of it and Hooperman was like, if this movie's set in the 50s, like, there's no, like, sense of that. Like, there's no music, there's no, you know, like, sense of what's going on in the world.

• 38:08Griffin Newman?

  Wondering if I clocked it.

• 38:09David Sims?

  Right.

• 38:09Griffin Newman?

  Until you're saying that right now.

• 38:11Speaker 04

  I, I would say, I think a third or two thirds of the film someone mentions, it's 1950 something. And I was like, oh, of course, yeah, that makes sense. Or maybe I wiki'd it, actually.

• 38:22David Sims?

  Um, first, he writes it more about the teacher. He returns to the script, he revises it, makes it more about the students, you know, which, there you go. And he thinks about Neil as the sort of student that goes too far. Uh, I guess is sort of whatever. I mean.

• 38:40Speaker 04

  Too far doing what?

• 38:40David Sims?

  I don't know. Getting too into acting. I mean, this script is so.

• 38:45Speaker 04

  JJ?

• 38:46David Sims?

  This interview is making me feel justified. No, no, no, carry on, carry on.

• 38:49Speaker 04

  No, but I, I mean, I, but I totally get that. But I think it's like, I was thinking about The Holdovers when I was watching it.

• 38:55Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 38:55Speaker 04

  And, and I think. That feeling of the script being a bit like, what's happening? Why does it matter? And like the fact that all the boys have these completely different sort of needs and things that they do because they're inspired. And one of them is kissing a girl while she's sleeping, which is very distressing.

• 39:14Griffin Newman?

  It is, it is the element of this movie.

• 39:16Speaker 04

  Josh Charles.

• 39:19Griffin Newman?

  So like.

• 39:19Speaker 04

  I was like, what's happening?

• 39:20Griffin Newman?

  Really, that's inspirational?

• 39:22Speaker 04

  Yeah. I have to do it. I just, I'm so sorry. I had to. I'm like, this is so distressing. But, but it is sort of, it just, but it feels very like, it's like vibes, you know? It's like we're in this, we're in this place, man.

• 39:33Griffin Newman?

  It certainly has like a very kind of comforting, autumnal feeling.

• 39:39Speaker 04

  Yes, exactly.

• 39:39Griffin Newman?

  And also this sort of, I know this movie's 89, but it feels like it's starting to synthesize the look that I feel like becomes the dominant 90s prestige drama look.

• 39:50David Sims?

  Awesome.

• 39:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 39:51Griffin Newman?

  Yes. This kind of buttery golden colors.

• 39:54David Sims?

  Absolutely. I mean, and in this movie, again, it's got a great director. It's got an incredible John Seal, incredible DP, like.

• 40:01Griffin Newman?

  Bad types.

• 40:02David Sims?

  He's taking his script around, nothing's really happening. He's not getting any traction. And, uh, and then at some point Jeffrey Katzenberg at Disney calls and is basically like, I hear someone wants this script. I want it now. You know, and he was basically like, $4 million, like, give it to me immediately. Like, uh.

• 40:23Griffin Newman?

  Jesus.

• 40:24David Sims?

  Yeah, right. You know, and.

• 40:25Griffin Newman?

  It basically became a one-person bidding war.

• 40:27David Sims?

  I guess so.

• 40:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 40:29David Sims?

  The way he puts it is everyone else had passed on the script and not really read it. Jeffrey had actually read it.

• 40:33Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:34David Sims?

  And he had someone who's gone to private school. He had whatever, you know, resonated with him or whatever. And he just got super excited.

• 40:41Griffin Newman?

  This is also fairly early Touchstone, which was such a big project for Eisner and Katzenberg. And a lot of their thing in trying to find like, what are the grown-up movies that Disney makes through this offshoot was like, find good vehicles for depreciated stars? That was a lot of their strategy was like, being like Richard Dreyfuss, Bette Midler, you know? Like, uh, making Splash, you know? Like, what are the scripts that everyone else in town is passing on?

• 41:08Speaker 04

  Right, yeah.

• 41:09Griffin Newman?

  That we can make with someone who has name value, but has a couple flops in a row.

• 41:13Speaker 04

  So you can get them for cheaper or it's like they'll be more interested in doing something of it? Yeah, yeah.

• 41:18Griffin Newman?

  But you could see the script being a good vehicle for that kind of thing of like, you got this big showy teacher role that you could get a former A-lister to do without having to work that many days.

• 41:29Speaker 04

  Was Robin in that space in his career though at the time?

• 41:31David Sims?

  Well, so let's get to that.

• 41:32Griffin Newman?

  He was hotter.

• 41:33David Sims?

  Yeah, he's, well, so, okay, but they bring aboard Jeff Canoe, of course, the director of Revenge of the Nerds, to direct this film. Katzenberg is so hot on this movie that they cannot find a star and Katzenberg's like, "Don't worry about it. We'll find the star. Start scouting locations. Get ready." And so they're all set to go and then Disney finally is like, "Kill this project. There's no star." Like, "What are you fucking doing?"

• 41:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 41:58David Sims?

  And they all get someone to the office and Katzenberg is like, sort of monologuing about what a great job they did. And Canoe says, "Let's get on with it. I feel like I'm having my back rubbed until I die." And Katzenberg is like, "Okay, we're firing you. Sorry."

• 42:13Griffin Newman?

  Now, JJ, who is not fired because he did his job correctly on this one, had alerted us a couple of weeks ago. There was a crazy sentence on the Wikipedia and I need to research it. And what David just read is the actual researched answer to what happened. The way that Wikipedia recounts it, which is insane, is that they hired Jeff Canoe, then hired Robin Williams, but Robin Williams didn't want to do the movie with him. So he signed on, then refused to show up to filming during the first day of shooting.

• 42:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 42:44Griffin Newman?

  So until they fired him and then they burned the sets down.

• 42:48Speaker 04

  That's what I read and I was like, that's what I thought you were gonna say.

• 42:50Griffin Newman?

  No citation!

• 42:51David Sims?

  I don't think that's what happened.

• 42:52Griffin Newman?

  No, it's not what happened. What you just read happened. Jeff Canoe is fired from-

• 42:56David Sims?

  Williams had been considered, but he'd never gotten attached. He's expensive. He's a big star. Like, it was more like that it was someone like that they'd circled.

• 43:04Griffin Newman?

  I just don't even know how that Wikipedia story comes about. It's very dramatic.

• 43:08David Sims?

  So then it gets shopped around. At a certain point, they are told that Canoe can still direct it if they can get Alec Baldwin or Liam Neeson, which is crazy. Neeson is crazy because he's not that famous.

• 43:22Speaker 04

  Has he done, did he do that Julie Foster movie yet? He must have. No.

• 43:25Griffin Newman?

  No, that's later.

• 43:26David Sims?

  No, that's like early 90s.

• 43:27Griffin Newman?

  It's an odd choice.

• 43:29David Sims?

  I mean, he would be good.

• 43:30Griffin Newman?

  He would be.

• 43:31Speaker 04

  When did Taken come out? I'm kidding.

• 43:34David Sims?

  Rip out those fucking pages.

• 43:37Speaker 04

  I miss, you know, actor.

• 43:39David Sims?

  I did too. A very particular set of poems. And then occasionally you get it with silence or whatever.

• 43:44Griffin Newman?

  Have you seen Naked Gun?

• 43:45Speaker 04

  No, I need to.

• 43:46Griffin Newman?

  It rules, but the thing it gets so right is how funny it is to have him say anything with that level of intensity. And they use both like taken intensity Nissan, but also like Schindler's List intensity Nissan.

• 44:00Speaker 04

  Oh, good.

• 44:00Griffin Newman?

  Where it's like, give him a fucking paragraph monologue of the dumbest shit in the world and just tell Nissan to play it.

• 44:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:07Griffin Newman?

  Like it's the most important thing ever.

• 44:09Speaker 04

  That's like Andre Baur in Unbroken Nine-Nine.

• 44:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's exactly like that.

• 44:12Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 44:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 44:14David Sims?

  All this doesn't work out, the rights revert back to Disney and about a year after Katzenberg is like Dustin Hoffman. How about that?

• 44:23Speaker 04

  I just saw him.

• 44:24David Sims?

  You just saw Dustin Hoffman?

• 44:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:25David Sims?

  At Megalopolis? Was it going like this?

• 44:28Speaker 04

  I still haven't seen it. I, I, I bought it and I'm like, I can't wait to watch and I just haven't brought my teleto. But yeah, I saw him. And I think Tessa had a moment where she's trying to like, they're trying to hug each other and then they tried to, um, she tried to like lift him. It was a very.

• 44:40David Sims?

  He's very small.

• 44:40Speaker 04

  He's very old and small.

• 44:41David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 44:42Speaker 04

  Um, but I was like, Dustin, anyway, continue.

• 44:45David Sims?

  He wanted to direct it and star in it, which sounds complicated.

• 44:53Griffin Newman?

  I agree.

• 44:55David Sims?

  He's got a bit of a, a reputation even at this time for being kind of wishy washy, you know, like he'll get involved in a project, he'll get really nitpicky and perfectionist about it and then he'll drop out.

• 45:06Griffin Newman?

  Well, he initially only makes three movies in the eighties. Am I correct about that? I feel like the eighties for him are Ishtar.

• 45:15David Sims?

  It starts to get out of control.

• 45:16Griffin Newman?

  And, and Rain Man.

• 45:18Speaker 04

  Really?

• 45:19Griffin Newman?

  He like slows way the fuck down, partly because he like freaks out over the failure of Ishtar and partly because he becomes so controlling that he kind of boxes himself out.

• 45:29David Sims?

  I think he, he is legendarily controlling at that point. I'm going to give you the full list of movies he made in the eighties. Sorry.

• 45:36Griffin Newman?

  Cause like his sixties and seventies are obviously like.

• 45:38David Sims?

  It's, it, the, and Ishtar and Rain Man, uh, and Family Business in 1989, right at the end there.

• 45:43Griffin Newman?

  So it's four.

• 45:44David Sims?

  Four. And then there is also the death of a salesman that he does first on stage.

• 45:48Griffin Newman?

  And then, sure, sure, sure.

• 45:49David Sims?

  Which is very bad.

• 45:50Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 45:51David Sims?

  And, uh, you know, Hoffman is.

• 45:55David Sims?

  Going crazy. Now, a big thing in the original script is that Keating is dying of cancer.

• 46:00Griffin Newman?

  Insane.

• 46:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:02David Sims?

  And Hoffman's like, I'm gonna lose all this weight to like portray the, you know, portray this. Thank God they cut that out of the movie. Or, I mean, whatever. Yes.

• 46:10Griffin Newman?

  That's like, and I'm.

• 46:12David Sims?

  Or if you're gonna have that, you also can't have a kid committing suicide.

• 46:14Griffin Newman?

  It's too much, yeah.

• 46:16David Sims?

  Darkness.

• 46:17Griffin Newman?

  I assume that was a Peter Weir judgment call?

• 46:19David Sims?

  I don't know, but anyway, he's going crazy, basically with his autoredum, but then he drops out. And they go back to Robin Williams. Robin Williams has, obviously, made Good Morning Vietnam, which was a hit, but then since then, he's had a couple flops. He hasn't really done anything.

• 46:37Griffin Newman?

  Well, so Good Morning Vietnam is eighty-six?

• 46:40David Sims?

  Eighty-seven. Yeah, he hasn't really done anything. This is, this is saying he has flops, but he, he has nothing. It's just.

• 46:46Speaker 04

  Maybe it's, it's in his personal life.

• 46:47Griffin Newman?

  Is JJ fired?

• 46:50David Sims?

  Well, it's a, it's a quote from somebody, but anyway.

• 46:52Griffin Newman?

  I feel like he has a run of flops leading into Good Morning Vietnam.

• 46:56David Sims?

  Yeah, exactly. Like Moscow on the Hudson, Best of Times, Club Paradise, Seize the Day, all these kind of nothing movies.

• 47:02Speaker 04

  Never heard of any of those.

• 47:03David Sims?

  It is crazy that he made a movie called Seize the Day.

• 47:05Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Uh. Based on the Saul Bellow book.

• 47:07David Sims?

  Right.

• 47:08Griffin Newman?

  A pretty limp film and like his first attempt at doing this kind of drama.

• 47:12David Sims?

  Peter Weir has Green Card, which is a movie he wrote.

• 47:16Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 47:16David Sims?

  He's been trying to make it. It just got delayed for a year for whatever. Reason. Katzenberg calls him up and is like, hey, what are you doing? And he's like, I'm fucking waiting on this green card thing and I'm going to the supermarket. That's the quote Peter Weir gives.

• 47:28Griffin Newman?

  And was Green Card Miramax?

• 47:30David Sims?

  I don't know.

• 47:31Griffin Newman?

  Okay, I'm sorry.

• 47:32David Sims?

  Does Miramax doesn't even exist then? What? It's nineteen eighty-nine.

• 47:36Griffin Newman?

  Who releases Green Card?

• 47:37David Sims?

  Uh, Green Card was, of course, released by Disney. Touchstone.

• 47:41Griffin Newman?

  There we go.

• 47:41David Sims?

  Um, and so Katzenberg's like, well, you wanna make a movie? Like, I got a movie.

• 47:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 47:46David Sims?

  And Katzenberg had worked with him on Witness and is like sends in the script. Peter Weir's like, oh, it's about a school. I don't care about that. But then he reads the script and he's like, ah, I like this. Yeah, right.

• 47:56Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 47:56David Sims?

  Then he says, this cancer reveal sucks.

• 48:00Griffin Newman?

  There we go.

• 48:00David Sims?

  Get this out of the script.

• 48:02Griffin Newman?

  I mean, emblematic of Peter Weir's value on this movie where you're like, this is a film of tremendous judgment and good taste, right?

• 48:10David Sims?

  Right.

• 48:10Griffin Newman?

  Like, uh, his skill as a director in this film is largely invisible in terms of the craft. It's very unshowy. But like, I think the things that like you're slightly allergic to in this movie, I watch and I'm like, I am so impressed. He stays just on the right side of these things.

• 48:26David Sims?

  Right.

• 48:26Griffin Newman?

  Because almost anyone else making this movie would probably make me vomit. And just knowing that it was supposed to have suicide and cancer is a perfect.

• 48:34David Sims?

  Right.

• 48:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:35David Sims?

  Look, Tom Schulman is like, this is my script. This is the ending. You want me to take this out? Are you crazy? Peter Weir's just like, look, I, you don't have to, but I'm not gonna make the movie. Like, so it's like me or the, you know, this plot twist. And.

• 48:50Griffin Newman?

  It was, it was set up as a twist that you don't know he's been dying.

• 48:53David Sims?

  I don't, it's the third act thing. And then Robin Williams comes aboard and Peter Weir says to him like, by the way, we're losing the cancer thing. And Robin was like, oh, good. Like, I don't like that.

• 49:03David Sims?

  And so Peter Weir went to private school as well, uh, the Scots College in Sydney. He said it was an ironbound school. I was a terrible student. I, you know, so I did relate to that. And I did have a poetry lecture on William Blake, where the teacher like, you know, woke me up and like, you know, excited me about that. And so I kind of tried to put that into the movie. So, you know, he relates to it, but it is a little bit of a higher job for, for Peter.

• 49:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 49:31David Sims?

  Right. Like he is coming aboard pretty late.

• 49:32Griffin Newman?

  E- Ethan Hawke, who he obviously works with on this movie, gave his interview like a year or two ago, where he basically announced Peter Weir's retirement and it got a lot of headlines.

• 49:42Speaker 04

  Is it?

• 49:43Griffin Newman?

  It's someone, he was doing probably some film festival retrospective talk or whatever, and they asked him about working with different director, where's Peter Weir? Why hasn't he made stuff? And he's like, he's basically retired. And then that headline carried over, right? He's just like, he just was kind of worn down by the industry. But he had this line I think about a lot, and that I probably will bring up many, many times across the series, where he's just like, he was this really rare thing, in that he was a popular artist. And just the succinctness of defining him that way, where you're like, this was a guy who mostly worked within the studio system with major A-list stars and made like intelligent, mainstream movies. He was like with actual art and craft, making movies for grownups that were commercial plays.

• 50:27Speaker 04

  Right. You know? It's like Ryan Coogler vibes, like, but you know.

• 50:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but like weirdly, in a certain way, he starts out making these personal films that are so much about like Australia and its legacy and whatever. And then he becomes this like, very emotionally invested director for hire, in a bizarre way.

• 50:44Speaker 04

  But I think, I think, you know, we're so invested in like the auteur story, but like directing, like, I don't know, it's like, it's a job, you know? And I think when people, someone like him, it's like, he's just good at the job.

• 50:58Griffin Newman?

  That's the thing.

• 50:59Speaker 04

  And can be, like, there's just some, um, oh my god, I'm blanking. Help, send help, blank check. Um, Mad Max, George Miller.

• 51:08Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 51:09Speaker 04

  George Miller, he said, which I thought, hello? He said, um, you have to, so much of directing is learning when to be passionate and dispassionate.

• 51:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 51:17Speaker 04

  And I'm like, that's so true, and I think that's how you.

• 51:20Griffin Newman?

  Because if you're passionate all the time, you will.

• 51:21Speaker 04

  Or just lose it.

• 51:22Griffin Newman?

  Burn yourself into cinders.

• 51:24Speaker 04

  Exactly. And you'll be Dustin Hoffman, and you're like, why am I losing all this weight to this movie?

• 51:28Griffin Newman?

  Coogler's magic to me is that like, he cannot make a film that isn't somehow him making the most personal statement he can at that time, and yet he is able to make it in a way that connects to everybody, which is kind of like a Spielberg magic.

• 51:40Speaker 04

  Exactly. And he calls himself a populist filmmaker.

• 51:42Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 51:42Speaker 04

  Coogler's very clear about that.

• 51:43Griffin Newman?

  That's just the language he works in. Peter Weir, like, has this sort of like, not bifurcation in his career, but there's definitely the shift where so much of his value comes from. A-list fucking leading men, love him, respect him, trust him.

• 51:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:00Griffin Newman?

  And he becomes this director for hire in a certain way, but none of them feel like dispassionate jobs, you know? But it's like, this is an era where you still could have that level of clout because you're like, "Hey, Robin Williams wants to work with him."

• 52:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:14Griffin Newman?

  Harrison Ford wants to work with him, Mel Gibson wants to work with him, Russell Crowe wants to work with him.

• 52:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:18Griffin Newman?

  Jim Carrey wants to work with him. These guys are fucking turnkeys. And if this is the director they want, they get to make whatever fucking movie they want.

• 52:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:25Griffin Newman?

  And this isn't treated as, "Well, this is Robin's little weird indie project."

• 52:30David Sims?

  No, this is a, this is a big studio movie.

• 52:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 52:33David Sims?

  Alright, so when they're making it, you guys might be shocked to learn. Robin Williams kinda liked to sort of be a little goofy and funny when he was doing his teaching scenes and stuff. Kinda like go into comedy mode.

• 52:44Griffin Newman?

  You do one take is written and then the second take, well...

• 52:47David Sims?

  So Peter Weir had to put the brakes on that.

• 52:49Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 52:49David Sims?

  Uh, and said like, "Look, the guy's not an entertainer." Like, that's not what this character is. Like, he's not the funny teacher exactly. Like, he's, he makes jokes and he smiles, you know, and wonly and...

• 53:03Griffin Newman?

  Another example of good judgment, I think Peter Weir used just enough of the Robin stuff.

• 53:08Speaker 04

  A thousand percent. It's like, these sorts of, like, watching the movie and watching Robin, like, he has such deep, like, sadness in him.

• 53:17David Sims?

  He does, which is the magic of Robin Williams.

• 53:19Speaker 04

  Exactly. And for him to use, and his deep empathy, and it's just like, for him to use that, to not be able to go to the comedy completely, to, to be the shield for all of that.

• 53:29Griffin Newman?

  Which, he does it again with Jim Carrey in Truman Show. We'll talk about that a lot, but there's so many interesting stories he tells about the process. He's really good at, and even Witness is a version of this, where like...

• 53:41David Sims?

  He's made such good movies. It's crazy.

• 53:43Griffin Newman?

  A Harrison Ford movie star movie where he's playing a cop and where he's like really drilling down into like,

• 53:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:49Griffin Newman?

  There's like a sadness in you.

• 53:50Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:51Griffin Newman?

  That other people kind of like...

• 53:53David Sims?

  Haven't been, well, it's also because Harrison Ford's making that movie like after three, you know, Star Wars and two Indiana Jones and like, it's like, "Yeah, play a guy."

• 54:00Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 54:01David Sims?

  "You're gonna play a guy now."

• 54:02Griffin Newman?

  I think he's really...

• 54:02David Sims?

  John Book.

• 54:03Griffin Newman?

  But this is like why these guys wanted to work with him is he was really good at like taking someone with a movie star persona and all that heat and being like, "Who's the real guy at the center of this?"

• 54:13Speaker 04

  Yeah. And you can trust me with that guy.

• 54:15Griffin Newman?

  Right. I'm pulling something honest from deeper within you.

• 54:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 54:19David Sims?

  Um, so, uh, Robin Williams, yes, classically, yes, he would make you do one serious, then one silly, then one whatever. They did have a half day there. They just let him go nuts, uh, unscheduled, kind of didn't tell Disney about it. That's where the Brando and John Wayne stuff comes from.

• 54:35Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 54:36Speaker 04

  Didn't Ethan Hawke recently say how much he just hated him because he was so not serious? But Ethan Hawke is so overly serious, so I could see that.

• 54:44David Sims?

  Ethan Hawke, I think also is very upfront about how fucking serious he was then.

• 54:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 54:50David Sims?

  Like, maybe he's a little more retrospective now, but like that he was so up his own ass as this young actor.

• 54:56Griffin Newman?

  That he didn't get it, that it was like, why isn't this guy treating this like the most important thing that's ever happened?

• 55:01David Sims?

  I think all these young actors like Josh Charles and him and, you know, like they're, he talks about it. Like they were in that pool of young actors in the early nineties, along with like Damon and Brendan Fraser and all those guys, who were like coming up for all these roles at the same time.

• 55:13Griffin Newman?

  There was a really intense crop of young, white, brunette.

• 55:17David Sims?

  White? Wait, what?

• 55:19Griffin Newman?

  But all of these, yes, the School Ties group and the Dead Poets group, all these people who were, were overlapping. It is funny, Hawke's casting here, and obviously he was kind of like the most experienced of all the actors, because he had been.

• 55:31David Sims?

  Yeah, he's in, uh, that fucking kid movie.

• 55:34Speaker 04

  But the rest of them were pretty much the first big.

• 55:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 55:37Speaker 04

  Film, yeah.

• 55:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. He's like playing the least hockey of the kids.

• 55:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's so true. Yeah.

• 55:43Griffin Newman?

  Like Hawke is the ultimate, like, man, you gotta go out and learn and take your experiences.

• 55:48David Sims?

  He's not the later, you're right, he's not Richard Linklater's Ethan Hawke or, uh, Reality Bites Ethan Hawke or whatever.

• 55:54Griffin Newman?

  I feel like Hawke's persona as a person now is like forever student, right? That like every interview with him is just, man, I get so excited, you go to a museum and you see a painting and it makes you feel something. And so watch him in this, being the young guy who you know was that serious and that artistically driven, be like, I don't know if we should be doing this.

• 56:13Speaker 04

  Can you stop joking around, Mr. Williams, please? Let's improve.

• 56:18David Sims?

  Peter Weir, he would just throw a piece of, balled up piece of paper at the head of the person who's supposed to speak first.

• 56:23Griffin Newman?

  I like that.

• 56:24David Sims?

  Instead of yelling, "Cut!", he would wrap his coffee cup with a teaspoon. I assume, Mia, you do the Clint Eastwood thing of you say, "Go ahead and that's enough of that", right?

• 56:34Speaker 04

  Yes, and then I don't realize it's a rehearsal, yes.

• 56:36David Sims?

  I read the Clint biography that Sean Levy just wrote, like, not director Sean Levy, critic Sean Levy, which is so good, and it does talk about how he would just start filming rehearsals, like, as a matter of fact, and actors be like, "What the fuck are you doing?". It's very... And he'd be like, "It's authentic, it's raw."

• 56:53Speaker 04

  I love shit in rehearsals. I mean, I always saw an actor when I'm rolling, or if I'm like, "They're doing it, do it", and then I'll go talk to them afterwards, but I remember, do you remember when, um, it felt like, I feel like it was, again, when we were in our, like, early twenties, when the industry was acting as though women had just started directing films and television?

• 57:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it was a technological...

• 57:13Speaker 04

  And they were, yeah, it was insane, what we did, and, um, and then there were, there was such a story around, like, women not saying "Action", because "Action" is so male, and not saying "Cut", because it was so aggressive.

• 57:23Griffin Newman?

  It's violent, yeah.

• 57:24Speaker 04

  And I was just like, gee, can everyone fucking relax? So, on my sets, my, um, my A.D. says "Action", and my A.D. says "Cut", but to be fair, I, I'm, I, um...

• 57:34David Sims?

  You're in, like, an egg, and you're, no one is allowed to look at you.

• 57:37Speaker 04

  I don't look at a set.

• 57:38Griffin Newman?

  Wearing a beret, the director's...

• 57:39Speaker 04

  I direct from my helicopter.

• 57:40David Sims?

  Right, exactly.

• 57:41Speaker 04

  And the A.D. are on the lines afterwards.

• 57:43David Sims?

  Yeah, exactly. And your helicopter is 20 feet above the ground.

• 57:46Speaker 04

  20 feet above, exactly.

• 57:46David Sims?

  Really close.

• 57:47Speaker 04

  It's very windy, windy, uh, shoot.

• 57:50Griffin Newman?

  Sound department hates...

• 57:51Speaker 04

  Hate me so much, but they keep going back. Um, no, but I, I do, I do sometimes, if, depending on the scene, sometimes I'll say, "I'll call it",

• 57:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 57:59Speaker 04

  and then I'll just, I'll give a "Whenever you're ready", um, because sometimes you, you know, you can just tell when they're like, "Ooh, they need a little something" or whatever, but...

• 58:07Griffin Newman?

  There's also, I mean, it is a thing where it's...

• 58:09David Sims?

  When Clint doesn't like the take, he says, "That's enough of that".

• 58:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Is Clint Eastwood the only director to ever call print on auditions?

• 58:17David Sims?

  That's generally. The book really lays out how philosophical he is about it. Like, the book is definitely not like he just wants to eat lunch, because it's like, he was been doing this since the seventies.

• 58:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yes, yes.

• 58:29Speaker 04

  He's a very good director.

• 58:30David Sims?

  And that he's just like, the more we do it, the more you're fucking it up. Like, I like whatever you, you know.

• 58:35Speaker 04

  Has he met David Fincher?

• 58:37David Sims?

  Well, but that's the thing, but then some actors would come, I'm sorry to talk about Clint Eastwood, but I did just read this book.

• 58:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 58:42David Sims?

  Would, you know, like Meryl Streep or whatever, and be like, what? Like, you're not gonna let me, like, find it?

• 58:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 58:47David Sims?

  And he'd be like, no, you're great. Standing right there, you look great. This is great. Like, we're done, you know? And Kevin Costner famously fought with him on

• 58:56Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 58:56David Sims?

  Perfect World, and he was like, I'll shoot with a stand-in, and like, and Costner had to back off.

• 59:00Griffin Newman?

  He's been doing this for so long now. It's like what you're saying of, like, it's a job. He knows how to treat it like a job.

• 59:05David Sims?

  He certainly.

• 59:05Griffin Newman?

  And when he's working with fucking Costner, Meryl Streep, those are, like, two of the best performances those actors have given.

• 59:11David Sims?

  Definitely.

• 59:12Griffin Newman?

  Where he gets into trouble is when he hires people.

• 59:14David Sims?

  I agree, right?

• 59:15Speaker 04

  That's the thing.

• 59:16David Sims?

  Literal non-professional actors, like, great.

• 59:18Griffin Newman?

  And it's like, it's not gonna get better than that. And it's like, it probably would. Yeah, if you work with them a little bit.

• 59:24Speaker 04

  Yeah. Also, it's so funny, because I always, like, like, I had an actor who was like, I'm, I'm not gonna be the first take girl.

• 59:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 59:31Speaker 04

  Like, it's not gonna be me. So I'm like, okay, I'll, then I'll cover you second. Like, you know, like, so you start to learn on it.

• 59:37Griffin Newman?

  There's a lot of value to, I mean, that's like, a lot of directing, in my opinion, is understanding the different flows of different actors.

• 59:44David Sims?

  Yeah. I mean, had Iman, I guess she'd already done the show. Like, but The Marvels is like her first movie. Iman Vellani.

• 59:51Speaker 04

  Oh, my God, I love her so much.

• 59:53Griffin Newman?

  She's so good.

• 59:54David Sims?

  But she'd done the show, so she was.

• 59:55Speaker 04

  She'd done the show, but no, it was actually quite great, because we, I got her, it was similar to getting Alfie after he did 28 years later, because that was his first movie, but, um.

• 1:00:02Griffin Newman?

  That kid rules.

• 1:00:03David Sims?

  That kid's incredible.

• 1:00:04Speaker 04

  He was great, yeah. He's so, he's so funny. I think, yeah, I think, um. I think the first movie, she's surrounded by adults, but my movie, he has like a bunch of teens and so.

• 1:00:12Griffin Newman?

  Hell yeah.

• 1:00:12Speaker 04

  Um, they all bullied me and he made fun of me because it took me too long to finish Uncharted. I was like, okay. I was like, I'm shooting, I'm directing a film, bro. Like, sorry.

• 1:00:21Griffin Newman?

  Were you trying a hundred percent it or just get to the end of the?

• 1:00:23Speaker 04

  I was, it's not like I was in story mode. I was in normal mode. Okay. But I, I think, I mean, to be fair, it's not a long game. And it's not Uncharted four, it's the first Uncharted. I was just, I'm in, I'm in completionist. I was like, I'll play in order.

• 1:00:34David Sims?

  Boring, the first Uncharted. I mean, there's stuff about it that's fun, but then it's like, okay, now I have to duck behind this fucking statue and shoot 18 people. Yeah, I played the first three Uncharted.

• 1:00:44Griffin Newman?

  Also, I mean, well, the story of Uncharted famously starts with Nathan Drake being a young boy, his uncle before he has a mustache.

• 1:00:51David Sims?

  Right, right. He's talking about.

• 1:00:52Speaker 04

  Okay, I was like, I don't remember that. Yeah, the movie, that was, you know, that was a time.

• 1:00:56Griffin Newman?

  It's just one of the funniest things to me that's ever happened in Hollywood development.

• 1:00:59Speaker 04

  Weird casting. All the casting is so strange.

• 1:01:02David Sims?

  They took so long that they were like, Oliver's gotta be the fucking uncle now. We gotta beef that role up.

• 1:01:07Speaker 04

  But also it's like he, like they're just, and I, and I, listen, I appreciate a Boogie Nights Mark Wahlberg. I love Tom Holland. I think he's a search phenomenal actor. They're both miscast. It's just like, doesn't make any sense.

• 1:01:17Griffin Newman?

  It is just so funny to me. They spent 15 years trying to do the version of that movie that everyone wanted to see.

• 1:01:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:01:23Griffin Newman?

  And then they were like, but hear us out. We know we have failed to make the actual Nathan Drake adult movie that you all imagined. What if we did a prequel instead?

• 1:01:32Speaker 04

  And also the thing is, Tom Holland's never gonna grow into being Nathan Drake.

• 1:01:35David Sims?

  No, that's, that's, that's the thing with casting him. It's like, what do you think is coming?

• 1:01:39Speaker 04

  It's like Timothée's Swiss Chalet is never gonna grow into being the Messiah of Dune.

• 1:01:43David Sims?

  Well, I disagree with you on that.

• 1:01:45Speaker 04

  Ooh, fun. But didn't you find it strange? No, I love those movies, but didn't you find it strange how in the first movie, he's like, he has this flash forward?

• 1:01:53David Sims?

  Right, to him is.

• 1:01:54Speaker 04

  And he's in a stunt man's body? With his, his VFX eyes.

• 1:01:59David Sims?

  You're right, you're right. He's never gonna.

• 1:02:00Speaker 04

  That's not that.

• 1:02:01David Sims?

  His body is not gonna change.

• 1:02:02Speaker 04

  It will never change, yeah.

• 1:02:03Griffin Newman?

  But you are also right that like, it is the exact thing that makes Tom Holland the most incredible Spider-Man casting of all time. Of like, they finally got a guy who you can have play 24 ever.

• 1:02:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. And he's also so good at Spider-Man.

• 1:02:17Griffin Newman?

  He's really good at Spider-Man.

• 1:02:18David Sims?

  Uh, yes, he is. Let me give you some, some takes from, uh, you know, Ethan Hawke has talked about this, about how Peter Weir likes to quote cast for the final color. And, you know, what does that mean? Cause he was basically like, Robert Sean Leonard is very shy and introverted. So he didn't make sense to me as this role and I am the opposite. And I, so I didn't make sense in this role either.

• 1:02:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:39David Sims?

  But, uh, Robert Sean Leonard said that Weir said to him, like, don't think about the suicide at all. Like, you are not playing this as a boy who's doomed. You're playing this as a kid who's going on to stuff. And Park calls the yop scene, your favorite scene, the most significant professional day of his life is the first time I really felt the experience of being an actor, where I could lose myself in a story and lose myself inside a collective imagination. Uh, they're doing steady cam, so it's like this, you know, cool, long thing. Uh, that, I don't know. Yeah, he liked it. All right. Fine. This is a boring quote.

• 1:03:13Speaker 04

  At least someone liked the film.

• 1:03:14David Sims?

  But that's kind of his vibe.

• 1:03:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:16David Sims?

  He'll monologue, you know, and you're like, yeah, he liked it. Thank you, Ethan.

• 1:03:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:19David Sims?

  I agree with you.

• 1:03:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:03:21David Sims?

  And then, uh, they had fun making the movie. They like, they truly did. I think it was freezing, but apart from that, like everyone was into it.

• 1:03:28Speaker 04

  Where'd they shoot?

• 1:03:29David Sims?

  Delaware.

• 1:03:30Speaker 04

  Oh, fun.

• 1:03:30David Sims?

  I guess. The budget was $16 million and the schedule was pretty tight.

• 1:03:36Griffin Newman?

  Sixteen.

• 1:03:36David Sims?

  Sixteen, one, six.

• 1:03:38Griffin Newman?

  Sweet sixteen.

• 1:03:39David Sims?

  Um, and, uh, like, so they had to do it really fast. And, uh, Peter Weir apparently selects music for each scene and plays the music while everyone's lighting and rehearsing and stuff. And then it will fade out right as he, uh, is starting shooting. So he's trying to sort of like set a tone.

• 1:03:59Speaker 04

  I want to know the guy who has to like determine when it's time to.

• 1:04:02Griffin Newman?

  I know.

• 1:04:02David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:04:02Speaker 04

  He's like, oh, God.

• 1:04:03Griffin Newman?

  And I was gonna say, harder to fucking do in like a pre iPod era.

• 1:04:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:04:07Griffin Newman?

  Now, now directors do that. I'm like, yeah, okay.

• 1:04:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:04:10Griffin Newman?

  Fucking found a Bluetooth speaker.

• 1:04:11Speaker 04

  We all read the Quentin Tarantino interview.

• 1:04:13Griffin Newman?

  Right. You're just hitting the volume slider down. That must've been like actually a somewhat complicated maneuver. Anyway.

• 1:04:18Speaker 04

  I don't do music concerts like that at all.

• 1:04:20David Sims?

  No?

• 1:04:21Speaker 04

  No, I mean, one occasionally if we're doing a night chase, I'll have a dance party, but, um.

• 1:04:25Griffin Newman?

  That's fine.

• 1:04:26Speaker 04

  Yeah. And then, and then there's a party scene and had a, um. We.

• 1:04:31David Sims?

  The whole movie's a party.

• 1:04:33Speaker 04

  Or like the scene where everyone's just like, ma. We genuinely had like the best like club music playing and everyone was like, fuck yeah. Yeah, it was great. It was great. I'm sure some of my actors were drunk, but.

• 1:04:43Griffin Newman?

  I I've had I've had directors do that and I do find that it helps sometimes.

• 1:04:48Speaker 03

  Cameron Crowe is famous for that.

• 1:04:49Griffin Newman?

  I'm sure there's a version of it that is annoying, but like if it's really.

• 1:04:54Speaker 04

  A D's usually hit it.

• 1:04:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I'm sure. If it's really being used as like a mood setting thing.

• 1:05:01Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 1:05:01Griffin Newman?

  That's that's what it can help with. I feel like sometimes if it's well curated.

• 1:05:05David Sims?

  One thing I love about Deadpool Society, and do you want to give this movie its flowers where I, you know, sometimes is that the the opening, just to start talking about the movie.

• 1:05:12Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:05:13David Sims?

  Because it feels like a funeral.

• 1:05:16Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:05:16David Sims?

  And you are watching it, not knowing what this movie is about, being like, oh, did somebody die? And then it's like, no, school is beginning.

• 1:05:23Speaker 04

  Their spirits are dying.

• 1:05:24David Sims?

  Yes, like, cause they're all like filing into this church.

• 1:05:27Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:05:28David Sims?

  And it's so somber and it's so like funereal.

• 1:05:31Griffin Newman?

  The great Norman Lloyd.

• 1:05:33David Sims?

  You know, we'd love to welcome fucking Hagrid will be teaching creature, you know, department. It just feels like Hogwarts, like suddenly.

• 1:05:41Griffin Newman?

  It is like, it's like a wake for their fucking happiness.

• 1:05:44David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:05:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:46David Sims?

  All these boys, these, you know, preppy Protestant boys who are gonna, I mean, become the leaders of America, I guess, right?

• 1:05:54Speaker 04

  Did you have to pray? No, you wouldn't have prayed at your school.

• 1:05:57Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:05:57David Sims?

  See, they would fucking pray to.

• 1:05:58Speaker 04

  I had to pray at my school.

• 1:06:02Griffin Newman?

  You had to pray to who?

• 1:06:03Speaker 04

  We had to to to God.

• 1:06:04Griffin Newman?

  God?

• 1:06:05Speaker 04

  To the Christian, to Christian God, to white Jesus.

• 1:06:06David Sims?

  And we specifically, right.

• 1:06:08Speaker 04

  Protestant, you know, WASP-y God. We we had to, it was at Ramsey Hall. So they, we did the Lord's Prayer.

• 1:06:17David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:06:17Speaker 04

  And then we had the Pledge of Allegiance, which it's so weird doing the Pledge of Allegiance.

• 1:06:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:23Speaker 04

  It's crazy.

• 1:06:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 1:06:26Speaker 04

  And I remember the first time I realized I didn't have to say it was I saw this Korean student, also a Korean student, was like not saying it. I was like, oh.

• 1:06:33David Sims?

  Cause she doesn't pledge allegiance to our flag.

• 1:06:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm like, that person's not from this country. And I was like, I'm from here, but I also could just not. No one's gonna know.

• 1:06:42David Sims?

  There was no prayer in my New York City public schools, obviously, because that is against the law, at least for the next six months.

• 1:06:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, but it was hell on the last, yeah.

• 1:06:50David Sims?

  But then I moved to England and there was praying because it is a religious country nominally.

• 1:06:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:06:56David Sims?

  And, uh, but I remember I was told as a nine year old, it was like, you don't have to, if you don't want to.

• 1:07:01Speaker 04

  I didn't get that.

• 1:07:02David Sims?

  Because I, one, didn't know what to say. But they would say the Lord's Prayer.

• 1:07:07Griffin Newman?

  St. Anne's was originally run out of the basement of a church a block away.

• 1:07:12David Sims?

  Yeah, right, of course.

• 1:07:13Griffin Newman?

  That is the St. Anne's Church, so it took that name.

• 1:07:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:16Griffin Newman?

  And then once they had their own building, they kept the name.

• 1:07:18David Sims?

  And they killed God.

• 1:07:19Speaker 04

  They killed God.

• 1:07:19Griffin Newman?

  But it's, it's the most heathenest place on earth, quite possibly. But people would always be like, oh shit, you went to Catholic school?

• 1:07:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:27David Sims?

  Right. It sounds like.

• 1:07:28Speaker 04

  Could they hit the kids?

• 1:07:29Griffin Newman?

  No, no.

• 1:07:30Speaker 04

  I went to a Catholic school where they could hit the kids.

• 1:07:31Griffin Newman?

  There was, there was the, the wrong kind of touching.

• 1:07:35Speaker 04

  Well, see, this is the.

• 1:07:35Griffin Newman?

  This is well documented.

• 1:07:36David Sims?

  Honestly, I'll say in this.

• 1:07:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:38David Sims?

  As someone, I, there's moments where, uh, Robin Williams.

• 1:07:41Griffin Newman?

  David's wife also went to my high school, by the way.

• 1:07:43David Sims?

  She did, yeah. And she is a public school teacher now, I want to clarify.

• 1:07:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:47David Sims?

  She's not a private school teacher.

• 1:07:48Griffin Newman?

  She made it out.

• 1:07:49David Sims?

  Yeah. But, um, there's moments in this where Robin Williams is really grabbing, uh, the students, like by the shoulders and stuff, and he's being very physical with them. And I was like, it doesn't seem unrealistic to me, but I was shocked by it. I was like, you cannot touch students, like.

• 1:08:02Griffin Newman?

  But I also think that's a good fucking.

• 1:08:04David Sims?

  Now, I mean, yeah.

• 1:08:05Griffin Newman?

  But I, I think that's good judgment from we're where you're like, yeah, like if fireable offense, you know, like this movie has to end with the guy being fired.

• 1:08:13David Sims?

  Is he a good teacher?

• 1:08:15Speaker 04

  Um, I, okay, I.

• 1:08:18David Sims?

  This is the central question of Dead Poets Society. They mostly seem to just hang out.

• 1:08:22Griffin Newman?

  I also think.

• 1:08:23Speaker 04

  It's a poetry class, though.

• 1:08:24David Sims?

  It's, it is cool, though.

• 1:08:25Griffin Newman?

  Yes, I think a lot of this movie is.

• 1:08:27David Sims?

  Excited by art.

• 1:08:28Griffin Newman?

  Cultural legacy, right? Our age, growing up, watching this movie for the first time in a world where we've already heard the things repeated, all of us knew the fucking beats and the parodies and whatever. I feel like the last 20 years of Dead Poets Society has been mostly a lot of things making fun of this type of teacher.

• 1:08:46David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:46Griffin Newman?

  Right? Like, that's.

• 1:08:48David Sims?

  The community episode about it.

• 1:08:49Griffin Newman?

  The community episode's a great one, but the idea of just like.

• 1:08:51David Sims?

  The Colin Joe sketch on SNL where they all stand up and then like one of them, their heads get cut off, yes.

• 1:08:56Griffin Newman?

  Right. But just this idea of like, we all find this fun and inspiring, but actually.

• 1:09:02Speaker 04

  I I don't know, guys. I I disagree. I I had a couple of teachers like him and like I had Mr. Rothwell when I was in public school for two years. Um, he, um, and I came from a Catholic school where they could hit the kids. And it was so, I was like, I didn't know what was going on.

• 1:09:16Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:09:16Speaker 04

  I was like, I saw a nun hit a kid and she was too angry, you know? I was like, that's not God. Um, it was the nun. And so I know all about her. So if you want to know more about her past before she was killing people. But no, I had this teacher, Mr. Rothwell, and like, he was very similar in the sense that, and he was absolutely ridiculous. He was an actor, of course. And when we were, he was white. And when we were doing Raisin in the Sun, he was like, I'll be the part of this person. And I was like, oh, like, that's great. Cool, cool. But he really wanted us to like, learn how to think. And it was so clear, even though he was ridiculous, we all were like, oh, like,

• 1:09:51Griffin Newman?

  That's what he's doing.

• 1:09:52Speaker 04

  Yeah. But we also were like, but I mean, I got myself in trouble. He was like, challenge, where are you, where are your sources in history class? And so in history class, I was like, what are your sources? And my teacher was like, the textbook.

• 1:10:02Griffin Newman?

  Don't flip it back on me.

• 1:10:03Speaker 04

  Yeah. She was like, shut up.

• 1:10:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:05David Sims?

  This has been vetted.

• 1:10:07Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 1:10:07Griffin Newman?

  I I had a couple of teachers that meant a tremendous amount to me that changed my life, that, uh, all did that. Like, all the people who meant something to me were the

• 1:10:17David Sims?

  They made you rip out pages?

• 1:10:18Griffin Newman?

  No, but I'm teaching you how to think, not what to think.

• 1:10:21David Sims?

  Totally.

• 1:10:22Griffin Newman?

  And like, it felt empowering in that way and had that kind of like, I'm putting this out there, waiting to see the kids who need to hear this.

• 1:10:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:10:31Griffin Newman?

  And who will respond? And then I'm really going to lock in with them. You know?

• 1:10:35David Sims?

  Yeah. It's a very interesting, so the movie is about the, his year as a teacher with these boys. You don't see him teaching any other classes. I assume he does teach other classes.

• 1:10:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:45David Sims?

  Like, he's not just teaching, you know, juniors or whatever they are.

• 1:10:49Griffin Newman?

  He's not the POV character. We start the movie with the boys. I mean, even to your point, the opening of this film, it's like, you start with a shot of a mural of a painting of these well behaved boys, right? Like, literally, like, this is the model of how we want you to look. And then the camera pans down to a small child being dressed up in his uniform. The sort of feeling of the factory line of like, this is, we're molding you. To just be this.

• 1:11:13David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:11:13Griffin Newman?

  And then going into this funereal procession, as you said.

• 1:11:16David Sims?

  And then he's introduced.

• 1:11:17Griffin Newman?

  That is the announcement of.

• 1:11:18David Sims?

  Oh, he's an alumnus and we're all welcoming Mr. Keating.

• 1:11:22Griffin Newman?

  But we're seeing him basically from the POV of these boys in the pew as they're seeing just this guy sitting at the end of the line on the stage.

• 1:11:29David Sims?

  And it's an interesting high school movie in that there's no bully, really. There are meaner kids and like less kids who are less into it.

• 1:11:39Griffin Newman?

  God, one kid is a fucking fink.

• 1:11:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:11:41David Sims?

  One kid who was a fink, but he's more of like a little coward, like.

• 1:11:44Griffin Newman?

  Fink.

• 1:11:45Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 1:11:45David Sims?

  Right? He just, he caves.

• 1:11:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:47David Sims?

  But it's like, I, I watched this movie, I, and I hadn't seen it. And I was like, oh yeah, does Josh Charles play the bully? Cause like, that's what he usually would play in every other.

• 1:11:55Griffin Newman?

  Just plays a normal forehead kisser. He plays a prince charming. All he's trying to do is rescue princesses by kissing them.

• 1:12:03David Sims?

  But like, right, it's about this like largely very sincere group of boys.

• 1:12:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:12:08David Sims?

  Who seem, I, I, the, I sort of, I guess the movie's, you know, arguing like, oh, Mr. Keating helped them, you know, learn to think and love poetry and all that. But I'm like.

• 1:12:18Griffin Newman?

  Taught them how to be in touch with their emotions.

• 1:12:20David Sims?

  Yeah, exactly. They're very like feely boys and it feels like they're pretty on board with him pretty much right away now.

• 1:12:26Griffin Newman?

  I do find this movie interesting to watch now in a kind of peak are young men okay era, right? Where this is a movie that, as you said, it is kind of about him teaching them to not be afraid of their own emotions.

• 1:12:38David Sims?

  Yes, because they're basically like, should we have a secret poetry society?

• 1:12:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, we're just so funny.

• 1:12:44David Sims?

  So working up about Shakespeare and shit.

• 1:12:46Griffin Newman?

  And like, is this the healthiest version of a man cave ever?

• 1:12:49David Sims?

  But I mean, I went to a school where I loved English. I love poetry. I love Shakespeare and all that. It's like, it wasn't, I wasn't finding like tons of other kids who were like, let's do some late night Shakespeare shit together.

• 1:13:02Griffin Newman?

  Fucking cool lamps into the cave.

• 1:13:04Speaker 04

  And then girls, and that's when things went off.

• 1:13:07David Sims?

  Well, the thing about theater, which I did in high school was that was how you got to meet girls.

• 1:13:11Speaker 04

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 1:13:12David Sims?

  Uh, so that was crucial.

• 1:13:14Griffin Newman?

  What does he say? That this, this is no Greek society?

• 1:13:18David Sims?

  Does he say that?

• 1:13:19Speaker 04

  It's a no petarast, is that what he means?

• 1:13:21Griffin Newman?

  There's the point where they're like, what, you just hang out in a cave, reading poems with other boys?

• 1:13:25David Sims?

  Uh huh.

• 1:13:26Griffin Newman?

  And Williams like kinda does the eyebrow wiggle of like.

• 1:13:29David Sims?

  Not just boys.

• 1:13:30Griffin Newman?

  Right. He says, I'll find the fucking line, but yes, it does feel like he knows wisely, much like theater teachers often weaponize this, as you said, to be like, hey guys, don't you wanna like know how to talk to women?

• 1:13:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. You have to trap them.

• 1:13:44David Sims?

  Right. Obviously, there's no homosexual overtones in this movie, despite it being like a movie about a bunch of boys at school.

• 1:13:50Griffin Newman?

  Another thing that's surprising.

• 1:13:51David Sims?

  Well, it's not surprising because of the era.

• 1:13:53Speaker 04

  Did you, wait, did you go to all boys in England?

• 1:13:55David Sims?

  Yes, I did.

• 1:13:56Speaker 04

  Okay. Have you heard of Meat Lips?

• 1:13:59David Sims?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:13:59Griffin Newman?

  Oh.

• 1:13:59Speaker 04

  Don't Google that. Don't Google that.

• 1:14:01Griffin Newman?

  I like where this is going.

• 1:14:02Speaker 04

  Did you go to all boys, Griffin?

• 1:14:03Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:14:03Speaker 04

  Okay. Did you go to all boys?

• 1:14:05David Sims?

  No. I, so I go to England.

• 1:14:08Speaker 04

  He's like Ben fucks.

• 1:14:08David Sims?

  I go to England, I go to public school, you know, at my local school when I'm nine years old. And then I, to everyone's surprise, I tested into this like, good school, like, but that was a boy's school. My mom was like, my, I must have been so hard for my mom, like in retrospect, was like, I'm gonna send him to like a, all boy's school where he wears a fucking tie? Like, I was living in New York two years ago. Like, what is going on? I was very adorable, of course.

• 1:14:34Speaker 04

  I have to see a picture when we're done.

• 1:14:35David Sims?

  Sure, I'll find a picture. But, uh, no, I don't know what Meat Lips is. Is that what you just said?

• 1:14:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, so, so, uh, so from, at my boarding school, some boys came from an all boy's school and, Meat Lips is basically where a boy would go into his pants, rub his balls with his hands, and then smack a, a boy on the, on the, on the mouth and go, Meat Lips.

• 1:14:53Griffin Newman?

  Is this a British thing or you're saying it's just a boy?

• 1:14:56David Sims?

  But I would say that's when that sort of stuff was happening.

• 1:14:59Speaker 04

  I was always so worried about, I, once I heard that, I was like, are.

• 1:15:02David Sims?

  Will I get Meat Lips?

• 1:15:03Speaker 04

  Men okay? They would never go to a girl. No, no, no, okay. Yeah, it was really crazy how focal your penises were in, in your daily lives.

• 1:15:09David Sims?

  Getting pants was a big thing in my high school. Thing about a boy's school is, yes, like, there's, there's maybe too much familiarity and discussion of everyone's penises.

• 1:15:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:20David Sims?

  Where it's like, you know, if there are girls around or they, maybe everyone kinda like knows to just sort of chill out a little bit. That's the problem with a boy's school. The advantage of boy's schools is that everyone's just lazy and. Dinky, like because there's no.

• 1:15:34Griffin Newman?

  I'm sorry, that's the advantage?

• 1:15:35David Sims?

  Well, I'm just like.

• 1:15:36Griffin Newman?

  It smells bad?

• 1:15:37David Sims?

  Like, to me, what was crazy about going to a boys' school was girls' schools. Because all the girls I knew who went to girls' schools, those places were crazy. Like, it was so much psychological torment and awful shit. Girls were seeing so mean to each other. Whereas if you put boys together, yeah, there's a little bullying and stuff. Like, there's some jocks and dork. But like, mostly it's just like fourteen-year-old boys, you're just like.

• 1:16:00David Sims?

  We're just disgusting.

• 1:16:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:02David Sims?

  We're just all disgusting together. So it's sort of like a.

• 1:16:06Speaker 04

  Keeping you contained.

• 1:16:07David Sims?

  Quote-unquote chill atmosphere, I guess. Yes.

• 1:16:09Speaker 04

  Hmm, interesting. I don't know, Meat Lips, it's really unchill to me.

• 1:16:12David Sims?

  That sounds quite unchill.

• 1:16:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, maybe it's England's different. I don't know.

• 1:16:15David Sims?

  No, England's gross, too.

• 1:16:16Speaker 04

  No, it's actually terrible. I have, I have a couple of guy friends who went in England who went to boarding school and from the age of like eight, and they're all very sad about it.

• 1:16:23David Sims?

  Well, that, and especially boarding school in England, and I would meet people, uh, you know, uh, and their parents would have gone to boarding school and they had never gotten over it.

• 1:16:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:16:32David Sims?

  Because I feel like it's, you know, the Roald Dahl books and all that about his experience in boarding school of like, just, just institutional bullying. Like, where it's like, that's sort of the older boys, like the structure of like, well, I was bullied, so now I'm gonna bully you.

• 1:16:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, the hierarchy.

• 1:16:45David Sims?

  Right, yeah, exactly. Like, it just seems awful.

• 1:16:47Speaker 04

  Ben, you're like, obviously.

• 1:16:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, obviously.

• 1:16:50David Sims?

  And then, like, teaching would be, I mean, the guy, he's telling them to rip the book out, right? That's a real thing. That some fucking famous academic from the early twentieth century is like, yeah, poetry should be like, put on a graph of like, how good it is.

• 1:17:03Speaker 04

  That's, that is actually the most insane, when I read that, it's so crazy.

• 1:17:07David Sims?

  Yeah, and like, I mean, good for him being like, that's silly, like, or whatever. But like, yeah, it's like, that was, I guess, how frigid their education was supposed to be.

• 1:17:16Griffin Newman?

  Did you guys have this game?

• 1:17:17Speaker 04

  Uh-oh.

• 1:17:17David Sims?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:17:18Speaker 04

  Uh-oh, I'm not looking.

• 1:17:19David Sims?

  Yeah, of course, Ben, yes. I'm not looking.

• 1:17:22Speaker 04

  Did you like?

• 1:17:23David Sims?

  Go ahead.

• 1:17:25Speaker 04

  That is our punching boys, it's crazy.

• 1:17:27Griffin Newman?

  Doorknob and safety really were, uh, cast a big shadow over my, my adolescence.

• 1:17:33Speaker 04

  What does that mean, doorknob safety?

• 1:17:34Griffin Newman?

  That if you fart.

• 1:17:38Griffin Newman?

  You have to call safety before anyone else calls it, calls you out on it. And if they say doorknob and correctly accuse you of farting before you've said safety, then they get to keep punching you until you touch a doorknob.

• 1:17:52Speaker 04

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:17:52David Sims?

  That one I don't know, but that's crazy.

• 1:17:55Speaker 04

  I don't know if that's sounding vaguely familiar.

• 1:17:57David Sims?

  It's so, the, the mind of a teenager, like this sort of like inventiveness of punishment.

• 1:18:03Griffin Newman?

  This is the other thing. Look, the internet existed when we were teenagers, but like social media didn't exist in the same kind of way. These things weren't open source.

• 1:18:11David Sims?

  Yeah, the most we had was like some instant messaging trauma.

• 1:18:14Griffin Newman?

  But like whatever you experience at your school, you're like, this must be the most universal thing in the world. I just assumed all three of you were gonna laugh uproariously when I said doorknob and safety. For all I know, maybe no one else has ever done this.

• 1:18:27David Sims?

  Reddit, R nostalgia. Anyone else play safety doorknob when farting as a kid?

• 1:18:32Griffin Newman?

  We couldn't go to Reddit to find out if this was a game.

• 1:18:35Speaker 04

  Do you wanna, do you wanna Reddit meat lips?

• 1:18:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Reddit meat lips, r slash meat lips.

• 1:18:50Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:18:50David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:51Griffin Newman?

  This episode is brought to you by XYZ Films and the acclaimed new documentary, Capturing Bigfoot. On October 20th, 1967, Roger Patterson captured 59 seconds of film showing a creature walking through the Northern California woods. I wonder if you can log that on Letterboxd?

• 1:19:08David Sims?

  It is an iconic video.

• 1:19:09Griffin Newman?

  Footage that became the most analyzed and debated in history. 59 years later, a reel of 16 millimeter film discovered in a safe changes everything. Capturing Bigfoot reveals the untold story behind the world's greatest mystery told for the first time by Patterson's own son and the people who were there. This is a story about family legacy, broken friendships, and how far people will go to protect a secret.

• 1:19:32David Sims?

  Of course, you got the classic, what they call Patterson Gimlin film everyone knows of Bigfoot out in the woods, like the famous Bigfoot picture. This has other stuff shot by him that no one's ever seen. That's what makes this movie different.

• 1:19:43Griffin Newman?

  But we're also talking brand new 4K scans of the original film taken from the Patterson family archives that some historians have called the best rendering of the footage ever seen.

• 1:19:52David Sims?

  I feel like we've all seen that footage as like grainy, you know, that you see, you know, whatever, you see it in a documentary for two seconds. But this is restoring it and making it look much more clear.

• 1:20:02Griffin Newman?

  There's also a companion podcast, the Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, which goes deeper into the legend and lore of Bigfoot and the Patterson Gimlin film, featuring weekly episodes with experts in cryptozoology, urban legends, and filmmaking.

• 1:20:16David Sims?

  I'm something of an expert in cryptozoology.

• 1:20:18Griffin Newman?

  Well, of course, yes, but that's more of a hobby.

• 1:20:21David Sims?

  Yeah, this podcast, Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, is hosted by the director of the film, Mark Evans, and it's available for free on YouTube and Spotify with exclusive episodes and content available on Patreon to members of the Capturing Bigfoot Society.

• 1:20:36Griffin Newman?

  Capturing Bigfoot is now available to rent or own on Amazon Prime Video. Learn more about Capturing Bigfoot at capturingbigfoot.com.

• 1:20:53Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:20:53David Sims?

  Yes?

• 1:20:54Griffin Newman?

  He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full cast audio thriller starring Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, and an A-list cast, including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many more. That is an all-star cast.

• 1:21:15David Sims?

  Yeah, this new full cast thriller locks Mina Harker in a battle of minds with the Count. When Mina's fiance, Jonathan Harker, Louis Partridge, vanishes in Transylvania, Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula's already hunting her.

• 1:21:34Griffin Newman?

  Joined by the enigmatic Van Helsing, Mina and a small fearless band race against time to stop this ancient terror. Using her intellect, her resolve, and a gift for drawing the unseen lines between clues, Mina may just hold the key to bring down the Count if he hasn't already found his way inside her mind.

• 1:21:50David Sims?

  Featuring a haunting original score by Elon Eschery and a spatial dolby Atmos sound design, Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Don't miss this year's best new audio thriller, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Audible's new full cast original adaptation, written by Robin Ahern, now on Audible. Listen to the darkness. Go to audible.com/listen todracula.

• 1:22:25Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 1:22:25David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:22:26Griffin Newman?

  People cut the cord. Means the death of the repeat, the rerun. But where, where do repeats still exist? In your closet.

• 1:22:34David Sims?

  Ah, the sweater that goes with everything, Griffin. The tee you somehow always reach for first?

• 1:22:39Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's, we know the feeling.

• 1:22:41David Sims?

  Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy. That's what Quince does best.

• 1:22:45Griffin Newman?

  Quince.

• 1:22:45David Sims?

  This is true for me. I will say I go to Quince.

• 1:22:47Griffin Newman?

  Hmm.

• 1:22:48David Sims?

  I buy a thing like a polo shirt, a sweater, whatever. And I'm like, oh, I like that. Guess I'll get a bunch more. Cause now that's what I'm gonna put on.

• 1:22:56Griffin Newman?

  Quince focuses on high quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton and merino wool. The styles are timeless, versatile and designed to become the dependable pieces you reach for day after day.

• 1:23:11David Sims?

  Love it. They got those 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters. Those start at just $60.

• 1:23:15Griffin Newman?

  I love those.

• 1:23:15David Sims?

  Giving you the softness and quality you'd expect from a luxury brand. Without that luxury price tag and look, it's starting to get chillier. You're gonna need layers, right? How about you just do Quince for every layer, huh?

• 1:23:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:29David Sims?

  Jacket, sweater, shirt.

• 1:23:30Griffin Newman?

  David, you know what I love?

• 1:23:32David Sims?

  What?

• 1:23:32Griffin Newman?

  The ultimate commuter pants.

• 1:23:34David Sims?

  Oh.

• 1:23:34Griffin Newman?

  Cause I'm commuting constantly.

• 1:23:37David Sims?

  Beep beep.

• 1:23:37Griffin Newman?

  Yep, that's me. David, I like these. They're just clean. They're comfortable. They got the right amount of pockets.

• 1:23:43David Sims?

  Wow. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know. It was blank check. It's the best way to support the show.

• 1:24:13Griffin Newman?

  The, the line, uh, Williams says is we weren't a Greek organization. We were romantics.

• 1:24:18David Sims?

  Uh, sure, sure.

• 1:24:19Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Um, which I guess is more of a fraternity.

• 1:24:22David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:24:23Griffin Newman?

  I mean.

• 1:24:24David Sims?

  The, you know, the, the, what Keating is doing is just being like, hey, this textbook is silly. We're gonna like, think about art in a more meaningful way, blah, blah, right? Yeah. But then the kids are so into him that they are like, what was your, they find the old yearbook and they're like, oh, you had the Dead Poets Society, what was that?

• 1:24:41Griffin Newman?

  And they're like, almost half mocking, even though they like him, they're like, what is this dorky thing? And the way that he with such inner confidence, like, says the thing about like, we sucked the marrow out of life. Like, we like, fucking lived it up, this shit was rad. You see them all get sparked of like, oh, fuck, is it cool to care about shit?

• 1:25:00Speaker 04

  But that's the age when you're, you're so receptive to that, actually.

• 1:25:03Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely. You need someone to tell you, like, it's okay to feel things.

• 1:25:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:25:07Griffin Newman?

  It's okay to be like, genuine.

• 1:25:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:25:10Griffin Newman?

  And that scene is so intoxicating.

• 1:25:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:25:12Griffin Newman?

  We're, we're jumping ahead now, but yes, it is crazy to me re-watching this, how, like, the first 15 minutes of the movie, you're like, oh shit, almost all of the iconic stuff happens in the first 15 minutes.

• 1:25:25David Sims?

  It's true, a lot of the big, the carpe diem, the ripping out the, yeah.

• 1:25:29Griffin Newman?

  Oh, Captain, my captain, like, all that stuff is set up basically in the first class alone. You're like, most of the cultural reputation of this movie is basically the first 15 minutes and the last five.

• 1:25:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:25:41Griffin Newman?

  You know, with like, the stuff in the middle is the stuff that I think, not that's forgotten, but is less discussed.

• 1:25:47Speaker 04

  Also, it's less exciting, like, Josh Charles kissing a girl and like, you know, her boyfriend and blah, blah, blah. It's like, nah, who cares?

• 1:25:54David Sims?

  I think the middle act of this movie is pretty dull. Yeah.

• 1:25:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. It's the duller part.

• 1:26:00David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:00Griffin Newman?

  But yes, he hits the ground running. This guy fucking first class. It's just like, here's my deal.

• 1:26:06David Sims?

  Another question about this guy. I hate to nitpick this guy, but it's like, right, he's so, he had such an exciting high school life, I guess.

• 1:26:14Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:26:14David Sims?

  Went to Cambridge.

• 1:26:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:16David Sims?

  We learn and he studied English. Now he's fucking back at like, his private school that he went to.

• 1:26:21Griffin Newman?

  He says it, he's, I love teaching.

• 1:26:23David Sims?

  Just go teach somewhere else, asshole.

• 1:26:25Speaker 04

  Where's his partner?

• 1:26:26David Sims?

  Yeah, who's he married to?

• 1:26:27Griffin Newman?

  She's in England.

• 1:26:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:26:29Griffin Newman?

  It's a girlfriend.

• 1:26:29David Sims?

  England then. Fucking, what's doing here in?

• 1:26:32Griffin Newman?

  That no.

• 1:26:33David Sims?

  Snowtown, Massachusetts.

• 1:26:35Speaker 03

  Doesn't the, the, the autumn and the winter, doesn't it look so nice?

• 1:26:39David Sims?

  It, that is, it's very, it's very.

• 1:26:41Speaker 03

  It's so romantic. I love it.

• 1:26:44David Sims?

  You guys have a few teachers, I had a few teachers in my school who had gone to the school, like at my high school, who were like alumni, like two or three. And I remember being just like, you wanted to come, I mean, I liked the school fine, but I was like, you wanted to come back here?

• 1:26:56Speaker 04

  Well, do you find now that you have people you went to school with who are now doing that? Cause I have, there are a couple of people I went to high school with.

• 1:27:02Speaker 03

  And I'm like, just go somewhere else. It's just like, come on.

• 1:27:05Griffin Newman?

  There must be one or two.

• 1:27:06David Sims?

  Go Carpe Diem in like Baltimore or something.

• 1:27:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, actually Carpe Diem.

• 1:27:10Griffin Newman?

  Here. I will say, those also weren't the teachers that like changed my life. I definitely had a couple who had gone to the school.

• 1:27:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:27:17Griffin Newman?

  They were not the ones who really stuck with me, whatever that says. No, I, there's the scene, the, the Robert John Leonard scene, it does feel like he says that where he's just like, if you're so great, why the fuck are you teaching here?

• 1:27:30David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:27:30Griffin Newman?

  And his answer is, it's what I love doing.

• 1:27:32David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:27:33Griffin Newman?

  And I, I think the subtext of that also is that like, because when he shows up on the class the first day, he's like, what's the name of the fucking school?

• 1:27:41David Sims?

  The, the, the school that they're at?

• 1:27:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:43David Sims?

  Welton Academy.

• 1:27:44Griffin Newman?

  Right. He says, right, I'm also a Welton graduate. Like he's leading with this sort of sense of, I know how much this place sucks.

• 1:27:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:27:53Griffin Newman?

  I'm someone who made it out the other side. I think the reason he goes back there is because he wants to like repay the loop.

• 1:28:00Speaker 04

  Hmm. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 1:28:01Griffin Newman?

  These are boys who are gonna get fucking crushed.

• 1:28:03Speaker 04

  Like save them.

• 1:28:04David Sims?

  Which that makes sense to me as sort of like, that's his noble mission, although I, I, it's interesting. Again, it's like, there's a lot of movies in this movie that I am maybe more interested by because like there's the scene earlyish on, where the other teacher, not an administrator, kinda calls him out being like, you're doing what? Like, you're running pages and shit, your kids are running around.

• 1:28:25Speaker 04

  They're friends though, right?

• 1:28:25David Sims?

  And they're friends. And he's kinda saying it as sort of like.

• 1:28:28Griffin Newman?

  You're, oh, you're a cynic. And he goes, no, I'm a realist.

• 1:28:30David Sims?

  Yeah, exactly. The guy's basically saying like, look, I'm not mad about you doing it, but right, but like, I don't think this is gonna work out for you.

• 1:28:36Griffin Newman?

  Why are you telling them all that they can be artists? You're gonna. Turn them all into frustrating fit frustrated failed arts, right? Like, he's basically saying, don't empower all of them.

• 1:28:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, like, just keep it cute, you know?

• 1:28:48David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:28:49Speaker 04

  We don't wanna, yeah.

• 1:28:50David Sims?

  Giving the advice essentially of like, also like, don't like, make a false promise of they're gonna be able to do whatever they want. And I guess that's pointing to the end of the movie, but I find the end of the movie a little dishonest, so.

• 1:29:03Speaker 04

  Well, at the end of the movie, that friend of his, he, I, I, he's walking with his class outside.

• 1:29:08David Sims?

  And he gives him a nod.

• 1:29:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:29:10David Sims?

  He's like, heating's up in the tower.

• 1:29:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:29:12Griffin Newman?

  That's the other thing. I don't think this guy's ever long for the school. He doesn't fight the firing. It feels like even if they hadn't fired him, I wouldn't be surprised if this guy left after a year. It feels like he wants to go back there.

• 1:29:23David Sims?

  Right. He wants it to be something and he wants to be able to do this, but it's like, the principle of this school is like, well, I think, I think children are awful and books should be shouted at them. And I will paddle anyone who disagrees with me. He's like the worst guy in the world.

• 1:29:38Speaker 04

  So icky.

• 1:29:39David Sims?

  The paddling scene kinda rocks. Weird kinda knocks that out of the park.

• 1:29:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, I know. He does. He does.

• 1:29:44David Sims?

  It's really, really bad.

• 1:29:45Griffin Newman?

  No, but I think they don't expand on it that much. It's a throwaway moment, but the, uh, the very attractive blonde woman he has a framed photo of on his desk, who's in England. I just have to imagine that this is sort of like, you know what? I'll go back there and teach for a year.

• 1:30:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:30:01Griffin Newman?

  While she's doing a graduate program abroad or something. It feels like there's some reason why he has to be long distance with his girlfriend for a year.

• 1:30:09David Sims?

  It doesn't come up, but yeah.

• 1:30:10Griffin Newman?

  And so he's, why not do this rather than I wanna be a fucking part of the firmament of this place for decades?

• 1:30:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, even when he shows up, like, his energy is just so, I mean, it's very Robin Williams-y, but it's so like, I don't know, ephemeral.

• 1:30:23Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's, it is a perfect use of him. You were saying how important Robin Williams was to you. He was just like. For our generation.

• 1:30:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:30:33Griffin Newman?

  In the 90s, he was the biggest.

• 1:30:35Speaker 04

  He's the guy.

• 1:30:36Griffin Newman?

  He was the guy.

• 1:30:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:30:37Griffin Newman?

  And it, to be a child and be like, this guy makes like the best family movies.

• 1:30:42Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:30:43Griffin Newman?

  He also feels like the ultimate celebrity. Anytime he shows up on TV, he's gonna be funny. And yet, you're aware, like, he is taken seriously by grownups.

• 1:30:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:30:51Griffin Newman?

  There's this side of him that I'm not getting yet.

• 1:30:55Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:30:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:55David Sims?

  That he's not just inventing Flubber out here.

• 1:30:58Speaker 04

  Yo, Flubber was my shit, bro.

• 1:31:00Griffin Newman?

  Flubber rules.

• 1:31:00Speaker 04

  Flubber was. I haven't seen it in 30 years, maybe.

• 1:31:03David Sims?

  I remember having a couple of notes on that one as well.

• 1:31:06Speaker 04

  When you were eight, with your pen.

• 1:31:07David Sims?

  I think I was 11 when I saw Flubber, and I was too old for Flubber, possibly.

• 1:31:11Speaker 04

  I don't know, when I saw 80, 90.

• 1:31:13Griffin Newman?

  Flubber's 97?

• 1:31:14David Sims?

  Yeah, I was 11.

• 1:31:15Griffin Newman?

  97, 98?

• 1:31:16David Sims?

  Remember Jack? Jack's kind of fun.

• 1:31:18Griffin Newman?

  Jack I've often referred to as my least favorite movie ever made.

• 1:31:22David Sims?

  Jack, Jack is tough.

• 1:31:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:24David Sims?

  That's a tough movie, but sad at the end. Yeah, sure.

• 1:31:28Griffin Newman?

  It's also sad at the beginning.

• 1:31:29David Sims?

  Sad the whole time.

• 1:31:30Speaker 04

  That's why he ages, he ages a lot.

• 1:31:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:32Speaker 04

  That was upsetting, I don't know.

• 1:31:33Griffin Newman?

  Directed by?

• 1:31:34Speaker 04

  Oh yeah, Francis Ford Coppola.

• 1:31:35Griffin Newman?

  His, his low point.

• 1:31:37Speaker 04

  But Francis, okay, we can't talk about Franny, okay?

• 1:31:40Griffin Newman?

  We can't, yeah.

• 1:31:41Speaker 04

  No, it's too much.

• 1:31:42Griffin Newman?

  You haven't lopped it off yet. You, you gotta lop it off before we talk about Franny.

• 1:31:45Speaker 04

  Wait, lop it off?

• 1:31:46Griffin Newman?

  Megalopolis.

• 1:31:47Speaker 04

  Oh, oh, I haven't seen it yet.

• 1:31:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, exactly, you gotta lop it off.

• 1:31:50Speaker 04

  Oh, yes, yeah, I, um, listen, I bought it, I was so excited, I went to see it in theaters, I, or I wanted to. And then I just never got around to it, and then I just, do I have time in the day?

• 1:32:01Griffin Newman?

  Look, he's threatening to recut it, it's not finished. There'll probably be seven more versions of Megalopolis.

• 1:32:07Speaker 04

  Yeah. He's from an era where it was like, here's the director's cut, and the extended cut, and then this cut, and then that cut, and it's like, but you, you, you made the movie with your own money, so it should just be your cut, right?

• 1:32:16David Sims?

  It's true, who's, right, who are you fighting with? Notes, Franny.

• 1:32:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:32:20Griffin Newman?

  He did an interview, and maybe it's already come out by this point.

• 1:32:23David Sims?

  But it was normal.

• 1:32:23Griffin Newman?

  But he did an interview recently, very normal, where he was like, I might try doing a weirder cut, and I'm like, a weirder cut, my guy?

• 1:32:31Speaker 04

  Oh my god.

• 1:32:31Griffin Newman?

  You had no notes on this fucking self-funded fever dream? By all means, go off, show me your weirder cut, but why wasn't that the first cut?

• 1:32:41David Sims?

  I'm sure it doesn't happen.

• 1:32:42Speaker 04

  It's long as well.

• 1:32:44David Sims?

  It's pretty long.

• 1:32:45Griffin Newman?

  It's pretty long.

• 1:32:45David Sims?

  Yeah, it's not like the longest movie, but like it's up there for length. It's not the shortest either. Um, Deb Ho Society, so yeah, you know, he wrote, they wrote out the book and he says Carpe Diem.

• 1:32:55Griffin Newman?

  I like that they don't pathologize this character too much, that they don't over explain him. That he does feel a little magical.

• 1:33:04Speaker 04

  Well, cause now if the movie came out now, there'd be a scene where you'd see, they'd realize he's an alcoholic and blah, blah, blah.

• 1:33:11Griffin Newman?

  Twenty scenes.

• 1:33:12David Sims?

  Right, there's, there's this sort of purity to just like, yeah, we don't really know, he's, we know he's an alum.

• 1:33:19Griffin Newman?

  It would absolutely open with this guy like walking into the building with his briefcase on the first day.

• 1:33:25David Sims?

  I mean, like, I love The Holdovers, a movie I think you only like.

• 1:33:28Griffin Newman?

  I like.

• 1:33:29David Sims?

  Um, that to me is a better sort of version of the, cause the same vibe, obviously, it's actually, uh, you know, period boarding school in Massachusetts. Where it's just like, the teachers are like, I'm a crusty piece of shit. Like, I shouldn't be here. If I wanted to, you know, to, if I'd achieved my goals, like, I wouldn't be here. But I can still help you, like hurt people can still help each other.

• 1:33:54Griffin Newman?

  That movie is almost the exact shadow self of this movie, right? That's a guy who's stuck here forever and you're like, why? You seem tortured and you're torturing others.

• 1:34:02David Sims?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:34:03Griffin Newman?

  And also it is from his perspective more than the kid.

• 1:34:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:34:06Griffin Newman?

  Um, yeah.

• 1:34:07Speaker 04

  But it is a similar feeling. I had a similar feeling of like, oh, I'm just, we're just vibing out, we're just, look at the dorm, look at the school, look at the architecture, New England.

• 1:34:15David Sims?

  It's, Deb Ho Society is a beautiful movie. And it really, anytime I'm sort of just watch, when I was watching it, I'm like, eh, you know, really? I was just like, this looks so fuck, of course I do, autumn.

• 1:34:28Griffin Newman?

  But I'm like, the, the.

• 1:34:29David Sims?

  Autumn.

• 1:34:31Griffin Newman?

  New Hollywood, right, brings about a kind of shift in the visuals of American film, I would argue. Where people were trying to avoid a feeling of like overly manicured sumptuousness, right?

• 1:34:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, which then you're like, why is this so ugly?

• 1:34:46Griffin Newman?

  Even a lot of the big epics of the seventies and eighties were like lit.

• 1:34:50David Sims?

  Hey, Pacino, why is it so ugly?

• 1:34:52Speaker 04

  Why is it so ugly, baby?

• 1:34:52Griffin Newman?

  Were lit a lot more. Flatly than the like equivalent movies of the sixties and before that, right? Cause there was this feeling of like, we're going for a naturalism, a roughness. This movie still has like the grain structure of like the eighties before the nineties really like improved film speeds. And then you get these films that just look like immaculately shiny and glossy. And it feels like that style comes back into fashion, but it does feel like this movie establishes like a color palette and a lighting scheme that then kind of becomes the default for like sensitive, serious studio dramedy.

• 1:35:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:35:28David Sims?

  Uh, John Seal.

• 1:35:29Speaker 04

  A dramedy?

• 1:35:30Griffin Newman?

  I would call it a dramedy.

• 1:35:33David Sims?

  Um.

• 1:35:33Griffin Newman?

  A light drama.

• 1:35:35David Sims?

  It was nominated as a drama in, uh, the Golden Globes. I would call this a drama. I would call this a straight up drama. It has suicide and stuff in it. I guess it's light ish in that like the first chunk of it is.

• 1:35:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:47David Sims?

  Like, oh, he's a nice teacher. But like, it's kind of a sad movie. Like, even when he's being, it's just like, you're just like, this sucks.

• 1:35:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:56David Sims?

  This fucking sucks. These boys gotta go to this fucking place. Norman Lloyd, not, yeah, Norman Lloyd, right, is the principal, you know?

• 1:36:03Speaker 04

  He's great.

• 1:36:03David Sims?

  He is great.

• 1:36:04Speaker 04

  So good.

• 1:36:04David Sims?

  You know, it's just like, this sucks. Um, John Seal, who shot it, just to reference that, you know, Weir picks him up from Out of Australian Obscurity for Witness. And he had done, you know, uh, Mosquito Coast, uh, like he'd, he'd been working with, with Weir for a second.

• 1:36:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:21David Sims?

  But he'd also done, right before this, Gorillaz in the Mist and Rain Man, which are similar vibe.

• 1:36:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:26David Sims?

  Where it's like, we're going back, like you're saying, to this kind of like burnished, more lush kind of prestigey look for these kinds of movies. And then right after this, he does Lorenzo's Oil, which is a gorgeous movie.

• 1:36:37Griffin Newman?

  Right, but that feels like the fully burnished version of it, is what you're saying.

• 1:36:40David Sims?

  And then, but then like, and then of course, he wins the Oscar for English Patient a few years from now, which is like the ultimate.

• 1:36:45Griffin Newman?

  The apex of, exactly. Right. I'm like, that's, we finally perfected the nineties Oscar movie look.

• 1:36:51David Sims?

  Right. And then people are like, enough already, you know, like.

• 1:36:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, cause now people are like, is that movie even good?

• 1:36:55David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:36:55Griffin Newman?

  And then he shot Fury Road, right?

• 1:36:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, I, I saw him in high school. Sorry, say it again?

• 1:37:00Griffin Newman?

  Uh, he shot Fury Road.

• 1:37:01David Sims?

  And, and Three Thousand Years Long. He's only worked, he's basically retired, but he's.

• 1:37:05Speaker 04

  Isn't he a hundred?

• 1:37:06David Sims?

  John Seal is eighty-two.

• 1:37:08Speaker 04

  He's so old. I honestly, George Miller and him shooting Fury Road, I'm just like, baby, are you okay?

• 1:37:14Griffin Newman?

  It is, it is the ultimate, I feel like with each passing year, it just becomes harder to understand how that movie was made.

• 1:37:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:37:21Griffin Newman?

  And the more information that comes out, and especially just here.

• 1:37:24David Sims?

  Well, they took all these vehicles under the Fury Road.

• 1:37:26Speaker 04

  Oh, of course, okay.

• 1:37:27David Sims?

  And the Dufourier was there and so on and so forth.

• 1:37:29Griffin Newman?

  But I, I do feel like it is the ultimate movie that filmmaker cite where they're just like, I can't get my head around this.

• 1:37:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:37:35Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's like, I cannot, it's Soderbergh's famous quote where he's like,

• 1:37:39Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:37:39Griffin Newman?

  My three questions are, how did they ever finish making this movie?

• 1:37:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:37:43Griffin Newman?

  How did no one die?

• 1:37:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:37:45Griffin Newman?

  And I forget what the third one is.

• 1:37:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:37:47Griffin Newman?

  Uh, the fact that it's like a masterpiece, let alone a movie that

• 1:37:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:37:52Griffin Newman?

  cunts together isn't.

• 1:37:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, it's, it's, um, I find it especially like, cause I've, like, I read Kyle's book about it and, and, um,

• 1:38:02David Sims?

  Shannon?

• 1:38:02Speaker 04

  Yes, who I, who I think is such a great writer and, um, uh, you know, you're just like, I could have never done that cause I, the amount of fighting he had to do, obfuscating, ignoring.

• 1:38:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:14Speaker 04

  I don't know, running off into the wilderness to avoid, you know, like, it's crazy.

• 1:38:19Griffin Newman?

  And also like fifteen years of not making it, being like, no, not right.

• 1:38:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:38:23Griffin Newman?

  You know, like, I gotta stand my ground, I know exactly what this fucking thing is. And then it's just like, everyone hated him while he was making it. And then saw the screening and was like, oh, you were right.

• 1:38:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:38:32Griffin Newman?

  Like, how the fuck do you like, have that clear sense of it in your head?

• 1:38:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:38:37Griffin Newman?

  And somehow get exactly what you want out of everybody, even in a way, at a time where you can't communicate it to them.

• 1:38:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:38:44Griffin Newman?

  It's madness.

• 1:38:45Speaker 04

  Fascinating.

• 1:38:46David Sims?

  Madness. Okay, so what else happens in the book?

• 1:38:50Speaker 04

  Same one.

• 1:38:51David Sims?

  The pages, Carpe Diem.

• 1:38:52Griffin Newman?

  He sparks them pretty quickly, they, they're on board. Uh, as you said, he has the conversation with the other teacher. What were you gonna say, Nia?

• 1:38:59Speaker 04

  Well, I, I mean, what, the, the boy's Noanda. My favorite, he's my favorite. And he doesn't really act after.

• 1:39:06David Sims?

  I know, he's good.

• 1:39:06Griffin Newman?

  He became a high level studio exec?

• 1:39:08David Sims?

  He did, he, Gail Hansen, I believe is his name?

• 1:39:11Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:39:11David Sims?

  Yes, he, he.

• 1:39:12Speaker 04

  He was so cute.

• 1:39:13David Sims?

  I weirdly had. Flipped over to being in.

• 1:39:15Griffin Newman?

  An internship where I worked under his wife. Uh, who was just like, you know, it's weird, my husband was the, was that guy in Dead Poets Society?

• 1:39:24Speaker 04

  That's so funny.

• 1:39:25Griffin Newman?

  And he kind of never acted again. Yeah.

• 1:39:26Speaker 04

  I'm good for him. I thought he was really good.

• 1:39:27Griffin Newman?

  He's really good.

• 1:39:28David Sims?

  He's good. All the kids are good. Would you agree? I mean, like.

• 1:39:31Speaker 04

  Um, yes, yeah. I mean, but they all, and they all, I, I was just like amazed at how good the casting was because they all are like, you know, Ethan Hawke, Dr. Wilson.

• 1:39:40Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:39:40Speaker 04

  And that ginger bastard.

• 1:39:42Griffin Newman?

  But it is, it is this like era of, as David was saying, there was just like a crop of brown haired boys. Yeah. Who were all just ready to go. And there were all these movies that kept being like, we need four of you.

• 1:39:55Speaker 04

  That's right now though, don't you think?

• 1:39:56Griffin Newman?

  I think we're finally back.

• 1:39:57Speaker 04

  Like it was so, I, cause I, I was also, I was talking to someone, I'm like, who's a movie star? Because there are so many white boys right now.

• 1:40:02Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:40:03Speaker 04

  But are any of them actually bankable? It's really interesting.

• 1:40:06Griffin Newman?

  I think the, the bankability is a question and it's very much still in flux.

• 1:40:10Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:40:11Griffin Newman?

  I think Tim, to me is the only one who has like definitively proven himself.

• 1:40:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:40:15Griffin Newman?

  In that area.

• 1:40:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:40:16Griffin Newman?

  But it does feel like there is a really strong crop of young white guys for the first time in like 20 years.

• 1:40:21Speaker 04

  Yeah. And they're all just, and they're, I think similar energy, they're all battling it out until someone is like, you know what? I need five of you. And I'm like, oh, thank God. Like, you know?

• 1:40:28Griffin Newman?

  But the other, the other difference is it feels like these guys all are a little bit Ethan Hawkeye. Where they're just like, I fucking care about this and I want to do it right. And I don't care about seeing, being seen as dorky about loving acting.

• 1:40:41David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:40:41Griffin Newman?

  And I want to work with good people. They're not just like doing the movie star playbook.

• 1:40:46Speaker 04

  A hundred percent.

• 1:40:47Griffin Newman?

  They want to be like important in a way that is, was seen as embarrassing for a while. And I think that's finally come back around.

• 1:40:53Speaker 04

  A thousand.

• 1:40:54David Sims?

  It's interesting that like Hawk, who as you say, like had already done kid performances. He goes on to obviously be, pretty quickly he's a star.

• 1:41:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:02David Sims?

  Like by 94, we've got Reality Bites.

• 1:41:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:05David Sims?

  And but even in 91, he did like White Fang. He was doing kind of like, you know?

• 1:41:08Griffin Newman?

  But by Reality Bites, he is like a fully defined.

• 1:41:11David Sims?

  Robert Sean Leonard, I feel like just became one of those guys everybody likes.

• 1:41:17Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:41:17David Sims?

  But that, it's the house role. Is sort of like a whole reinvention for him. Before then, it was like, oh yeah, we love him and he does theater and you know.

• 1:41:26Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say, I feel like he was one of those ultimate guys who was like, he's not that interested in chasing the Hollywood thing. He loves doing theater. He's so well regarded in theater and he's played.

• 1:41:34Speaker 04

  Is he a Tony?

• 1:41:35Griffin Newman?

  He has.

• 1:41:35David Sims?

  I don't know that he has a Tony. Uh, let's find out.

• 1:41:40Griffin Newman?

  I think.

• 1:41:41David Sims?

  No, you are wrong. He got a Tony nomination for Candida.

• 1:41:44Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:41:45David Sims?

  Uh, I'm not sure if he did Arcadia. Uh, he did the invention of love. Oh, he won a Tony for the invention of love.

• 1:41:51Speaker 04

  Yay.

• 1:41:52David Sims?

  Two. Another Tom Stoppard play.

• 1:41:54Griffin Newman?

  But did he do Arcadia?

• 1:41:55David Sims?

  I'll find out.

• 1:41:56Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:41:56David Sims?

  I think, I think he did the Music Man at some point as well.

• 1:41:59Griffin Newman?

  That also sounds right.

• 1:42:00Speaker 04

  He sings?

• 1:42:01David Sims?

  I don't remember. Yeah. Yeah. He replaced Craig Bierko in that Music Man. That's funny.

• 1:42:06Griffin Newman?

  With Chenoweth?

• 1:42:08David Sims?

  Uh, I don't know.

• 1:42:09Griffin Newman?

  Sounds right. Uh, he, yes, incredibly respected. I, David, I've never been wrong once on this podcast.

• 1:42:18David Sims?

  Not seeing Chenoweth. Uh, but you know, Chenoweth.

• 1:42:20Griffin Newman?

  The Arcadia thing because I need to be proven correct about this.

• 1:42:23David Sims?

  He did Arcadia.

• 1:42:26David Sims?

  Tom Stoppard.

• 1:42:27Speaker 04

  Thank you guys so much.

• 1:42:28Griffin Newman?

  It is, what I was going to say is it's funny that it feels like.

• 1:42:31David Sims?

  Victor Garbert, Jan Martin.

• 1:42:33Griffin Newman?

  For someone who had this heat when he was young and such a huge part and such a huge movie that it was like, and then he kind of like eschewed that whole thing. And really focused on theater. And then you're like, right. And he did 10 years of House. He probably made one trillion dollars.

• 1:42:46David Sims?

  Well, and I feel like it's.

• 1:42:47Griffin Newman?

  And it's set for life.

• 1:42:48David Sims?

  That House role, it's the perfect fucking role because it's like, you probably only work one day a week.

• 1:42:54Griffin Newman?

  Perfect work.

• 1:42:55David Sims?

  Like mostly Wilson in that show is sitting behind his desk and House comes in and is like, I'm fucking dumb, House, I'm a rascal, you know? And Wilson's like, oh boy. And then like once in a while he does more stuff, but usually you just do that.

• 1:43:08Griffin Newman?

  He got paid like a hundred and fifty thousand dollars per eye roll at the thing a House says.

• 1:43:14Speaker 04

  That show was so great. I was rewatching it and it's, it's, it's really good.

• 1:43:18David Sims?

  Especially, I would say the first three, four seasons.

• 1:43:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, I've gone beyond the plan. I've just beat it off a bit.

• 1:43:23Griffin Newman?

  On fire is like one of the most undeniable performances.

• 1:43:25Speaker 04

  But also so inappropriate. Oh my god.

• 1:43:28David Sims?

  But I think the, the episode three stories, I mean, House is like beloved and people watch it all the time, but and yet it's sort of forgotten in that early prestigior.

• 1:43:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:43:37David Sims?

  Three stories was from the first season of House. It is one of the most amazing pieces of TV writing.

• 1:43:42Speaker 04

  Is that the one?

• 1:43:43David Sims?

  It's the one that reveals how he got the list. It's like an early season one.

• 1:43:47Speaker 04

  He's being, he's, Cuddy forces him to do the lecture. Yes, yeah.

• 1:43:52David Sims?

  The Dead Poets Society, so he rips out the pages and he says, "Carpe diem."

• 1:43:55Speaker 04

  Oh my god, wait, no, no, no. So this is what I was actually getting to, which was like, the boys, they each have a thing they do, right? So the one boy is like, "I'm gonna kiss a girl without her consent." Another one is, "I like theater now," all of a sudden. Nawanda is, "I'm just gonna change my name to Nawanda."

• 1:44:12Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna write appropriate every culture.

• 1:44:14Speaker 04

  Exactly. And he's, but he's also like, "I'm gonna, I'm gonna live that life."

• 1:44:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah. He's kind of the original Jake Sully.

• 1:44:20David Sims?

  Sure. In that he draws some paint on his face.

• 1:44:23Speaker 04

  Okay, guys, thank you so much. Thank you so much for the.

• 1:44:25David Sims?

  We gotta go. Gotta get out of here.

• 1:44:28Speaker 04

  Oh, man.

• 1:44:29Griffin Newman?

  Uh, yes, no, they, they each have a little kind of mini arc of like, what does he empower them to be able to do?

• 1:44:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:44:37Griffin Newman?

  It is funny that with Distance, you're like, "A few of these kids didn't need the empowering."

• 1:44:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, maybe, you know, absolutely, yeah.

• 1:44:43Griffin Newman?

  Uh, Ethan Hawke, he empowers to be able to say a sentence out loud at room tone.

• 1:44:48Speaker 04

  Which I, I like that scene.

• 1:44:49Griffin Newman?

  It's really good.

• 1:44:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, I feel like this movie, what this movie does really well, it's very hard in a film to show an audience art and be like, "This is good," or to like, explain

• 1:44:59Griffin Newman?

  That is a great call.

• 1:45:00Speaker 04

  passion for an art form.

• 1:45:02Griffin Newman?

  It is the Mr. Holland's Opus thing that David always talks about.

• 1:45:05Speaker 04

  Which is what?

• 1:45:06Griffin Newman?

  You spend an entire movie being like, "This guy's fucking life's work," and you do the opus at the end and it sucks ass.

• 1:45:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah.

• 1:45:12Griffin Newman?

  And you're like, "This guy doesn't sell the audience on the power of music and his music is bad."

• 1:45:16David Sims?

  To get mad about the Reddit, but there was some thread about my common complaint about Mr. Holland's Opus, which is of course that, yes, his opus is toilet.

• 1:45:25David Sims?

  And people are like, "He doesn't get the message that like, actually, all the kids he taught over the years, his opus," I'm like, "I got that message." They, they kind of hammer it home. I know.

• 1:45:36Griffin Newman?

  The movie's not like fucking Chinatown.

• 1:45:39Speaker 04

  I actually read that thread.

• 1:45:42Griffin Newman?

  You were telling us before your record that you read the Reddit way too much, Nia.

• 1:45:45Speaker 04

  I do, I do.

• 1:45:46David Sims?

  We are your opus and he's like, I guess so. I mean, like, to be clear, in the movie, he's such a curmudgeon.

• 1:45:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:45:51David Sims?

  But then he's like, oh, yeah, sure. And then they're like, and now you're opus. And they're like, beep, beep, beep, beep, and it's just.

• 1:45:56Griffin Newman?

  Also, here's a retort.

• 1:45:57David Sims?

  Barb.

• 1:45:58Griffin Newman?

  If the kids are his opus, is that that much of an accomplishment either?

• 1:46:01David Sims?

  They stink.

• 1:46:02Griffin Newman?

  They all stink.

• 1:46:03David Sims?

  Sell this thing for a second.

• 1:46:05Griffin Newman?

  No, but you, you're right. I do think this is a movie that like actually sells you, the audience, on what it's trying to sell the kids.

• 1:46:12Speaker 04

  Yes, yes, and super.

• 1:46:14Griffin Newman?

  I also think it's a really good, uh, screenwriting decision that they like are sparked by the guy. They're like, what's this guy's fucking deal? They go and find the yearbook. They find the weird thing that they bring to him almost half mockingly.

• 1:46:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:46:28Griffin Newman?

  He doesn't say like, boys, this is what you need to do.

• 1:46:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:46:31Griffin Newman?

  Go find a cave and read each other's poems. Girls will show up.

• 1:46:34Speaker 04

  He's sort of beyond reproach to me personally. I mean, minus destroying, uh, school property of the books, but, um, I'm like, he, you know, it's really, it's not. Well, they off, they go off.

• 1:46:45Griffin Newman?

  I like that they're basically self motivated in doing it.

• 1:46:48David Sims?

  Well, there's this question of like, right, you know, at the end of the movie, uh, Robert Tomlin's character says, you know, seeks his advice on the whole, like, I want to act and my dad doesn't want me to do it.

• 1:47:00Speaker 04

  That scene is so good.

• 1:47:00Griffin Newman?

  That's incredible.

• 1:47:01David Sims?

  The scene is really well acted. Keating doesn't do anything wrong. No. But Keating definitely sort of knows, like you can see on Williams's face, like, his dad's not gonna go for this. This isn't going well. Like, you know, like, cause Keating says, like, look, talk to him. Tell him how you feel about this.

• 1:47:17Griffin Newman?

  Say exactly what you're saying to me.

• 1:47:18David Sims?

  Right. And then they have this second conversation where he's like, and you talked to him? And he's like, yeah, it didn't go well, but, you know? And you're kind of like, no, it's not like Keating is responsible for this kid then killing himself or whatever, but you are kind of like, but it is, it's, it's all a little out of hand.

• 1:47:33Griffin Newman?

  You know, like, you know, he's not doing much communication up or with the parents or whatever. Like, he could be trying to intervene a little more. The other thing I think Williams plays really well is you get the sense in him that he is questioning, am I responsible for this in any way? Right? That he plays that very quietly. It's another thing that's helped by him not being the POV character of the movie.

• 1:47:54David Sims?

  Right. So he's sort of in and out and you're not sure like how involved.

• 1:47:58Griffin Newman?

  But it doesn't feel like he fights the firing.

• 1:48:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:48:00Griffin Newman?

  And it's obviously not his fault, but there is this part of him of just like, I'm just telling kids to fucking.

• 1:48:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:48:07Griffin Newman?

  You know, say whatever they want and do whatever they want. I'm not really thinking about.

• 1:48:11Speaker 04

  And you can't not feel.

• 1:48:13Griffin Newman?

  Totally.

• 1:48:13Speaker 04

  Somewhat not responsible, but yeah, in a way guilt has no logic, really, you know, so.

• 1:48:19Griffin Newman?

  Exactly, exactly.

• 1:48:20Speaker 03

  It's just crazy that the dad and then the administration blames his teaching. Instead of looking at the obvious, which is that the dad is forcing his son to do stuff that he really doesn't want to do.

• 1:48:35David Sims?

  Right, but the school can't do that.

• 1:48:37Speaker 03

  No, I understand, but it's just such an annoying example of bureaucracy that really gets under my skin.

• 1:48:44Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely.

• 1:48:45Speaker 03

  So stupid.

• 1:48:47Griffin Newman?

  But I also think the school exists to mirror that viewpoint of the dad, right? Like the, the function of this school in terms of what it's promising parents is like, we're gonna kick all the fucking weirdo shit.

• 1:49:00David Sims?

  Getting your kids ready for doctoring and lawyering and whatever.

• 1:49:03Griffin Newman?

  Like that, that's the promise of the premise, you know, that's what's on the bottle here is like, we're gonna make them fucking upstanding citizens of society.

• 1:49:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:49:11Speaker 03

  Right, and it's just like, they're just printing doctor lawyer.

• 1:49:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:49:15Griffin Newman?

  Right, and you see them side eyeing Williams from the beginning, even before there's any demonstrable damage of what he's done.

• 1:49:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:49:22Griffin Newman?

  Uh, even before the Gail Hansen character has the act out or whatever, and there's anything they can sort of like reprimand Williams for, they're already like, this could be dangerous, you know, we don't need these kids like fucking believing in themselves.

• 1:49:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:49:37Griffin Newman?

  That's not what they're paying us for.

• 1:49:39Speaker 04

  I had it with my teacher, Mr. Rothwell in middle school. He got into trouble because he wanted us to read Antigone.

• 1:49:44Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 1:49:44Speaker 04

  And we were sixth graders, I think.

• 1:49:46David Sims?

  It's a little early for Antigone.

• 1:49:47Speaker 04

  Dude, it's Antigone, but it created this.

• 1:49:50David Sims?

  My wife teaches Antigone.

• 1:49:51Speaker 04

  What age?

• 1:49:51David Sims?

  Like, I would say more like, um, ninth grade.

• 1:49:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, which, which, you know, yes, um, me however, I don't read it, cause I'm a loser and, um, I, but I was like, yeah, there's a lot of suicide in that, um, very dark things. I think incest is in Antigone as well, you know?

• 1:50:10David Sims?

  It's the, Antigone is, uh, the sequel to Oedipus.

• 1:50:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly, and, and, yeah, so, but for us, like.

• 1:50:17Griffin Newman?

  Complex, if you really think about it, that's my genius read.

• 1:50:22Speaker 04

  Griffin.

• 1:50:22Griffin Newman?

  Sorry.

• 1:50:23Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 1:50:24Griffin Newman?

  Sorry.

• 1:50:24Speaker 04

  No, I, I always forget, like, when I'm in the presence of it, I'm always like.

• 1:50:28David Sims?

  Oh, of his bullshit?

• 1:50:29Griffin Newman?

  It's just unstoppable.

• 1:50:30Speaker 04

  Have I ever told you you're a bit boy?

• 1:50:34Griffin Newman?

  You're not wrong.

• 1:50:34David Sims?

  This is like when Kevin Durant went on Bill Simmons years ago and started talking about the blog boys. You're a bit boy.

• 1:50:40Griffin Newman?

  You're a bit boy. I'm a fucking bit boy.

• 1:50:42David Sims?

  Bit boy over here.

• 1:50:43Griffin Newman?

  I'm a nasty little bit boy.

• 1:50:45Speaker 04

  I was, I was telling a friend of mine who's a bit boy. I was like, oh, you're such a bit boy. He's like, what's a bit boy? I'm like, you're a boy doing bits.

• 1:50:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:51Speaker 04

  You know?

• 1:50:52David Sims?

  Laser accuracy.

• 1:50:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, bit boy.

• 1:50:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:54Speaker 04

  I love it for you though. But this is your world. Bit boy away.

• 1:50:57Griffin Newman?

  Look, the bits paid for all of this.

• 1:51:01David Sims?

  You're sitting in a home of bits. Look upon me, toys.

• 1:51:05Griffin Newman?

  Look at this merch.

• 1:51:06David Sims?

  Look how many fucking toys are there. All those figures paid for with bits.

• 1:51:11Speaker 04

  I also, sorry, because the monologue is like a long bit, but it's also like you are an actor. So it's like this, like it's in a bit, um, sort of middle space. Oh, excellent.

• 1:51:22Griffin Newman?

  Jesus Christ. David did a bit at some point. I don't remember if it was on mic.

• 1:51:26Speaker 04

  Is he being grumpy a bit?

• 1:51:26Griffin Newman?

  Or if it was off mic. That's a really good question. It's kind of, that's become a bit of an Andy Kaufman thing where it's hard to tell where the bit ends. Is he still in control of it?

• 1:51:36Speaker 04

  I don't know. It makes me, I'm so nervous. Oh, I forgot to call my friend.

• 1:51:40Griffin Newman?

  So we're all just taking phone calls now?

• 1:51:41Speaker 04

  Sorry, excuse me. Hello? No.

• 1:51:43Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:51:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:51:45Griffin Newman?

  He, David at some point a couple of years ago did an impression of his daughter being a teenager and being dismissive about the podcast and angrily saying, oh, those bits you're making fun. They paid for all of us. They paid for your education.

• 1:52:00David Sims?

  Disgusting. It's disgusting.

• 1:52:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:03David Sims?

  All my child, my Kaufs.

• 1:52:05Speaker 04

  Oh, I love that.

• 1:52:06David Sims?

  Covered by his bits.

• 1:52:07Griffin Newman?

  My fucking bits. Bits pay the bills.

• 1:52:10David Sims?

  Let's talk more about Dead Poets Society.

• 1:52:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:12Speaker 04

  What is that? Just kidding.

• 1:52:13David Sims?

  So he fucking rips out the page.

• 1:52:15Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:52:16David Sims?

  Carpe diem. And then they paddle his ass.

• 1:52:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, that was, I found it so upsetting.

• 1:52:20David Sims?

  Principal paddled Robin Williams.

• 1:52:23Speaker 04

  Oh, that's a different kind of story.

• 1:52:25David Sims?

  My guess is they're leaving it downstairs. Don't worry. It's fine. I just ordered it because I know I'm gonna have to go pick up my daughter after this. I guess.

• 1:52:32Speaker 04

  Oh, should we talk about the script?

• 1:52:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Carpe diem does feel like it does not become a thing that anyone can say in any conversation and is understood without that movie, with this movie, right? Like, it does feel like, even if people don't know that it's from Dead Poets Society anymore.

• 1:52:51Speaker 04

  Well, Griffin, it's Latin.

• 1:52:51David Sims?

  It's right. It's of course from Horace's ode.

• 1:52:54Griffin Newman?

  I'm saying, how many Latin phrases can you drop into any conversation without them to translate?

• 1:52:59David Sims?

  Certainly, Carpe Diem has always been in my life, and this movie came out when I was three. So, yes, maybe it's all just...

• 1:53:05Griffin Newman?

  And even just like a basic kind of like frat boy level, like Carpe motherfucking Diem. Like the fact that you can just...

• 1:53:11David Sims?

  Do you think it's funny that Robert Sean Leonard wants to be an actor?

• 1:53:15Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:53:16David Sims?

  This school, of course...

• 1:53:19David Sims?

  This school doesn't have drama.

• 1:53:21Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:53:22David Sims?

  So, it's like, he doesn't get to do a school play. He has to do like local theater?

• 1:53:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:26Speaker 04

  No, it's a girl's school.

• 1:53:27Griffin Newman?

  It isn't the girl's school?

• 1:53:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, so sometimes the schools will, um...

• 1:53:30David Sims?

  That is something, that is something my school...

• 1:53:32Griffin Newman?

  They say it's like teen memories.

• 1:53:33David Sims?

  Interesting. Okay, all right, all right.

• 1:53:35Speaker 04

  Because I think that's when they meet all the girls at the dance, right?

• 1:53:37Griffin Newman?

  Laura Flynn Boyle and Laura Walters. Both basically cut out of the film. But Laura Flynn Boyle is one of the actresses in the play. Yeah.

• 1:53:43Speaker 04

  Oh, I totally missed that.

• 1:53:44David Sims?

  Interesting. He plays Puck. I played Puck.

• 1:53:45Speaker 04

  Oh, you have Puck energy.

• 1:53:47David Sims?

  Thank you.

• 1:53:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:53:48David Sims?

  And I'll take the...

• 1:53:48Speaker 04

  Was he Grumpy Puck?

• 1:53:50David Sims?

  Uh, was he a Grumpy Puck?

• 1:53:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:53:52David Sims?

  Me?

• 1:53:54David Sims?

  What?

• 1:53:55Griffin Newman?

  You just told all the characters to get along with it.

• 1:53:58Speaker 04

  Whatever.

• 1:53:59David Sims?

  Oh, yeah, yeah. I was like, yeah, yeah, fucking girdle around the earth 20 minutes.

• 1:54:01Griffin Newman?

  What do you want me to say? What do you want from me?

• 1:54:04Speaker 04

  Wait, how old were you when you played Puck?

• 1:54:05David Sims?

  Uh, I was like 14, maybe? Yeah, 14 or 15.

• 1:54:10Speaker 04

  Are you a good actor?

• 1:54:11David Sims?

  No. No, very bad.

• 1:54:12Speaker 04

  Me either.

• 1:54:13David Sims?

  I had a sparkly...

• 1:54:16Speaker 04

  Near the cost of...

• 1:54:17David Sims?

  I had this like sparkly sweater.

• 1:54:18Griffin Newman?

  David Sims to lead cast of Next Feature.

• 1:54:21David Sims?

  Yeah, you're gonna...

• 1:54:22Speaker 04

  No, it's not just... Do me a monologue.

• 1:54:24David Sims?

  No, I'm a bad actor. I'm a bad actor. I liked drama because I like theater and I like Shakespeare and I like, you know, like I dug the class and all that. Like I did it entirely in school, but, um, I just, you know, as Griffin knows, I sort of... I, my, I don't have a performance drive that engages enough or something, and I just kind of, I mean, I don't know. I think I wasn't like... Blowing my lines. I think I was just kind of flat.

• 1:54:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:54:49David Sims?

  It was just kind of whatever.

• 1:54:50Griffin Newman?

  You have pretty severe stage anxiety, if not stage fright.

• 1:54:53David Sims?

  Yes, so.

• 1:54:54Griffin Newman?

  But then, I think we, when we were trying to-

• 1:54:56David Sims?

  I just don't like it.

• 1:54:58Griffin Newman?

  Well, this is the bigger thing I was gonna say.

• 1:54:59David Sims?

  I'm not like some people where, like, true people are like, having a panic attack or throwing up before they get on a stage.

• 1:55:05Griffin Newman?

  When we started doing live shows, and we don't do them often.

• 1:55:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was gonna say.

• 1:55:08Griffin Newman?

  And it felt like it was a little bit of an uphill battle to get you to do them. I felt like you had more acute anxiety leading up to the first couple, and then there was the moment where Ben and I were like, he's gonna get out there and realize, like, the audience will be happy whatever he says, and he's gonna get the bug. And I remember you walking offstage one time and being like, "Yeah, I just feel nothing."

• 1:55:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:55:25Griffin Newman?

  It doesn't, like, I feel a relief of the anxiety I had before, but like, I guess I don't have the juice-

• 1:55:30David Sims?

  And the thing is, I don't have the sickness- Because it's like, it's a sickness to wanna do, like, open mics, right? Because it's like, you're punishing yourself.

• 1:55:37Speaker 03

  Sure is.

• 1:55:37David Sims?

  Because you're going in front of these people who aren't hostile.

• 1:55:40Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely.

• 1:55:40David Sims?

  And being like, "Hey, so here's what's up with my dick," you know?

• 1:55:43Griffin Newman?

  You're broken if you need that. I say that as a broken person who needs that.

• 1:55:45Speaker 04

  I saw a picture of you dressed as Wado.

• 1:55:46Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:55:47Speaker 04

  And I, and I, and I just really, because I think, as listeners know, my first impression-

• 1:55:53Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yes.

• 1:55:53Speaker 04

  Of Griffin is, um, and David are trivia monsters, because they're so good, and he never would win. And the second is, um, as just like a comedian doing VH1 bits.

• 1:56:02Griffin Newman?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:56:03Speaker 04

  So, to see you dress as Wado, I was like, "Oh, this is his true form?"

• 1:56:06Griffin Newman?

  It is.

• 1:56:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:56:09David Sims?

  I just, yeah, it's sort of like-

• 1:56:11Griffin Newman?

  But it speaks to that exact, uh, what is broken inside me that I have to put on a Wado costume?

• 1:56:16David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:56:17Speaker 04

  Multiple times.

• 1:56:17David Sims?

  Like, whatever rush I should be, visceral rush I should be getting from performing, I think I'm not getting it.

• 1:56:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:23David Sims?

  That would drive me to wanna do it lots more.

• 1:56:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:56:25David Sims?

  Ben, what are you gonna say?

• 1:56:25Speaker 03

  We just gotta, though, say that you are really great.

• 1:56:28David Sims?

  It's very nice of you. I think I'm totally fine performing in front of fans of Blank Check, who are obviously a warm audience.

• 1:56:34Griffin Newman?

  But no, but you, you do come alive doing it, and then you just walk off and you're like, "Huh, so you, you guys, like, love doing that?"

• 1:56:39David Sims?

  I'm not dismissive at all, to be clear. I don't want it to sound like I am.

• 1:56:43Speaker 03

  We always get feedback where people are like, "David's so great."

• 1:56:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:46Speaker 03

  "He's so good live."

• 1:56:47Speaker 04

  But that's, that means your mental hygiene must be really good.

• 1:56:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, he's the most normal man alive.

• 1:56:53David Sims?

  Yeah, like, wait a second. There's plenty wrong up here.

• 1:56:58David Sims?

  Let me open my fifth spreadsheet. That's where it's all.

• 1:57:01Griffin Newman?

  It is another, like, I just think, like, masterfully, um, realized and judged sequences in this movie is Robert Sean Leonard after the play backstage. And just a series of, like, very kind of understated moments of just that feeling of, oh, my god, I found my thing.

• 1:57:21David Sims?

  He's.

• 1:57:22Griffin Newman?

  That is played out entirely on this kid's face.

• 1:57:24David Sims?

  He's really good before, too, when he's nervous and he knows his dad's out there and you can see him, like, again, just on his face, like, should I just fucking not do this?

• 1:57:33Griffin Newman?

  Well, and you also hope that it's like the dad's gonna come up to him and be like, I was wrong, son. What you did out there was magic.

• 1:57:39David Sims?

  In your critic's ass.

• 1:57:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, sister act, too, you know?

• 1:57:43Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:57:43Speaker 04

  It's like, you think, maybe.

• 1:57:45Griffin Newman?

  You want it to be a School of Rock moment where they're all like, we were wrong. We get it. You have to do this. And, yeah, the fact that he has this sort of, like, private moment backstage, not even with the rest of the cast who are all complimenting him, but then he, like, goes into the blind spot behind the curtain and just kind of, like, takes a breath in. And it's just, like, you're like, this guy feels complete for the first time in his entire life. And he knew it from the moment he auditioned that there was something there.

• 1:58:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:58:13Griffin Newman?

  But having completed it so successfully.

• 1:58:17Speaker 04

  And thinking also, maybe, maybe my dad's, I'm showing my dad and now he's seen me and.

• 1:58:21Griffin Newman?

  He's in that one moment of maybe.

• 1:58:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, cuz then he has, but then his, cuz then he's like, oh, your dad's one, like, is back there. And he has a moment where he's like, maybe, oh, fuck.

• 1:58:28Griffin Newman?

  Comes around, he comes around the curtain and he looks and his dad is still just standing against the back wall. And the audience is basically emptied out. And it's like, oh, my god, he's here.

• 1:58:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:58:37Griffin Newman?

  He stayed through it. He's waiting to talk to me.

• 1:58:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:58:41David Sims?

  Isn't, correct me if I'm wrong, cuz I've only seen the movie once in the last 25 years or whatever. It's like Kerwood Smith's character. It's like they're not old money like some of these kids. He's successful. He's like a doctor or something.

• 1:58:53Griffin Newman?

  But he grew up kind of poor. It's implied.

• 1:58:56David Sims?

  And so he has a little bit of the kind of like, you cannot be fucking around.

• 1:58:59Griffin Newman?

  He keeps saying, we don't have the kind. Of money.

• 1:59:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:59:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:03David Sims?

  I mean, the suicide scene is like, I mean, it's very like tastefully done by Weir, whatever, but the mom saying he's okay is like very upsetting.

• 1:59:14Griffin Newman?

  And Kurt Smith's response at the same time, right?

• 1:59:16David Sims?

  It's, it, yeah. I don't like that he kills himself because I don't think he should have done that. No, it just feels like.

• 1:59:24Griffin Newman?

  You cast judgment.

• 1:59:25David Sims?

  I don't quite know. I just don't know if the movie earns it.

• 1:59:29Speaker 04

  I, I, I have a similar feeling. I had, but.

• 1:59:31David Sims?

  It's like, why'd he do it? His dad wouldn't let him act. I'm just like, I don't think we got there, guys. You know, and it more feels like the movie just had to have an ending that was sad. And then Ethan Hawke's crying in the snow.

• 1:59:43Speaker 04

  I was gonna, I just wanted more, because I think part of, and I understand, we're telling Wilson not to do, like, the whole, not to, to lead up to the, to the suicide, not to have that.

• 1:59:55David Sims?

  Play that over your head, yeah.

• 1:59:57Speaker 04

  I think I needed, and, and also to be fair, like, you know, I, I mean, I went to NYU, did you go to NYU too?

• 2:00:02Griffin Newman?

  I didn't. I dropped at a Cal Arts.

• 2:00:04Speaker 04

  Okay, beautiful.

• 2:00:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:05Speaker 04

  Um, went to NYU and like, when I was there, someone killed themselves and bops in the library because you could, before you could jump over them into the lobby.

• 2:00:12Griffin Newman?

  Kind of infamous, yeah.

• 2:00:14Speaker 04

  And several people had done that and, you know, and, you know, so.

• 2:00:18David Sims?

  Of course, people.

• 2:00:19Speaker 04

  No, but the way people have talked about them was like, was like, oh, they seem like I'd never expected, but I think in the context of a film, obviously, the point is emotional eligibility, unless you're making Head of Gobbler. Um, and, and it's like.

• 2:00:32David Sims?

  If you're making, you know, someone's gonna fucking do something.

• 2:00:35Speaker 04

  I wanted to die, but, um, but, uh, you know, I, I just felt like, it didn't, the math wasn't completely mathing. For me.

• 2:00:43Griffin Newman?

  I think, yeah, I, in rewatching it, thought I was going to, reject it feeling like too much of a push narratively. It, it went down more smoothly. I bought it more than I was expecting to. It's mostly because it's so well done. It's mostly because he makes the sequence kind of dreamlike.

• 2:01:02David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:01:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:01:03Griffin Newman?

  And I think by giving it that space and making it largely wordless and making it feel kind of like weirdly magical, right?

• 2:01:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:01:11Griffin Newman?

  There, there is this sense of. And, and I think it's what you're talking about with like, how many, uh, uh, college suicides there are. And even like at, uh, places like this, at boarding schools like this. Yeah. I think these places that are this like, high pressure concentration of energy about your future. Hmm. We are preparing you for your future. Yeah. We are trying to break you down to be able to accomplish great things. Yeah. It's a very like combustible kind of potion. Yeah. They're, they're brewing of like, you're making people think so much about the pressure of this moment as a fulcrum point, as in a series of fulcrum points. Yeah.

• 2:01:54Griffin Newman?

  To be able to unlock the future you want or not. Yeah. And is it the future you want, or is it the future you were told you need to pursue, or whatever it is, right? And I think you do get young people under tremendous amount of pressure, who just like, break on a bad night. Yeah. Not it being the end result of years of suicidal ideation. But this feeling of, you know, I think it is, there is a narrative convenience to it. Look, just, it just- Just by a little bit, but I think what it sells fairly well, that I just buy enough, is that like, the high, high and the low, low so close together. Right. Of this guy finding this moment- Teenage calibration. Exactly.

• 2:02:37Speaker 04

  And his dad's like, you're gonna go to here and then med school and then this and then that.

• 2:02:41Griffin Newman?

  I have just found myself for one solitary moment, and I'm immediately told that door is closed, it is impossible. And in that moment, it's, you know, what you hear about a lot with teen suicide is just like, you wish you could tell them that like, you will get past this, right? That this is like, a bad night, that this is not the rest of your life.

• 2:02:58Speaker 04

  Keating says, well, you're 218, you can do whatever you want.

• 2:03:00Griffin Newman?

  Totally.

• 2:03:00Speaker 04

  And so, and I think that was the one line for me where I was like, oh, I, well, cause again, like not, like, almost like forgetting what was coming. I'm like, oh, yeah, he'll do that.

• 2:03:08Griffin Newman?

  But he's fighting so hard. You don't know my dad, you don't understand. You understand, Keating's like, no, truly, trust me, trust me, just say it. Yeah. He'll see it. Hmm. And when he's been told that, he wants to believe that. Yeah. He feels such a sense of euphoria from the performance, and then his dad comes- Comes down so fucking hard.

• 2:03:26David Sims?

  That's the thing that makes sense.

• 2:03:27Griffin Newman?

  And in a way, that's not even vindictive as much as just like this is fucking reality. We can't afford this. We don't have generational wealth. You need to keep this up. There are no other choices.

• 2:03:37Speaker 04

  That house is too big for him to be going on like that, please.

• 2:03:40Griffin Newman?

  I agree.

• 2:03:41Speaker 04

  That's the thing that also is a little bit confusing for the dad's math where I'm like, I, cause my dad's similar. We haven't spoken in many years, but um, it, it, it's like, the logic is less about like, it's all about his trauma.

• 2:03:54Griffin Newman?

  Exactly.

• 2:03:54Speaker 04

  And his inability to feel.

• 2:03:55Griffin Newman?

  That's the whole thing.

• 2:03:56Speaker 04

  And, and I think the moment where he, he talks to his mom and his mom's like, sorry. You're just like, oh, like he, he just really feels alone.

• 2:04:05Griffin Newman?

  Well, Kurt Wood Smith's like, I had it rough. And this is what I had to do to become successful. And the proper way for me to parent you is to do that as well, rather than being like, I went through that to be able to give you a better, more supportive life.

• 2:04:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:04:20Griffin Newman?

  Right? Where you do have options and autonomy. I also think it's such a good choice that like Kurt Wood Smith has his like, sort of like, complete immediate breakdown at like, my son, my son, my son. And then his wife comes in and is in absolute denial at it and he starts yelling at her.

• 2:04:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:04:38Griffin Newman?

  Right? He lashes out at her in anger. He shows genuine vulnerability.

• 2:04:41David Sims?

  But it's a very, very honest moment.

• 2:04:43Griffin Newman?

  Exactly. There's genuine vulnerability and guilt when he sees his son's body. And then when his wife comes in and starts reacting emotionally, he's, stop it, stop it.

• 2:04:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:04:51Griffin Newman?

  Like it's that guy.

• 2:04:53Speaker 04

  It's control. He's like.

• 2:04:53Griffin Newman?

  He does not have the emotional freedom to be able to really help any of the people in his life, even at his absolute lowest moment. Yeah.

• 2:05:02Speaker 04

  I love the, the way, cause I, you know, you always think with like suicide scenes, like, okay, then he finds a gun then. And then be boom, you hear the gunshot and the fact that there's no gunshot.

• 2:05:10David Sims?

  Instead of just the dad waking up.

• 2:05:13Griffin Newman?

  Another excellent.

• 2:05:13Speaker 04

  I mean, and then he, and then he walks around and sees every.

• 2:05:16David Sims?

  Weird knows just to pull back.

• 2:05:19Griffin Newman?

  Yep.

• 2:05:20David Sims?

  Like, you know, and that's why this movie works.

• 2:05:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I agree.

• 2:05:24Speaker 04

  Are you coming around too?

• 2:05:26David Sims?

  And I look, this is, I gave it three stars on Letterboxd. It's how, and that was the rating I had it. Like where I was just like, this is a movie that totally works for me.

• 2:05:32Griffin Newman?

  I just think it kind of undeniably works.

• 2:05:46Speaker 04

  Okay, can we have a Letterboxd moment?

• 2:05:48Griffin Newman?

  Please.

• 2:05:49Speaker 04

  Okay, so, I don't even wanna say this.

• 2:05:52Griffin Newman?

  We can always cut it out.

• 2:05:53Speaker 04

  Okay, I have a secret Letterboxd.

• 2:05:54David Sims?

  Hell yeah.

• 2:05:55Speaker 04

  Um, I just started it because Max McHale was like, "You need to do it."

• 2:05:59Griffin Newman?

  It's at Paul's.

• 2:06:00Speaker 04

  No, no, no, I'm not letting any of my friends know because then people might find clues and, you know, stressful. Um, but I have an experience where I rated a film two stars, but then I also put, "Oop, like it."

• 2:06:11David Sims?

  Yeah, sure.

• 2:06:12Speaker 04

  Have you done this?

• 2:06:13David Sims?

  I think that is, I think that is a very, uh, like, good way to think about Letterboxd. Because people get very tied up on Letterboxd.

• 2:06:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:06:21David Sims?

  So like, "Well, what should my rating scale be? Or do I just not do ratings and I just do hearts?" And I'm like, "Two stars and a like? That's a kind of movie that like I have in my wheelhouse."

• 2:06:30Speaker 04

  Absolutely. Deep Blue Sea is probably a two star and a like movie.

• 2:06:32David Sims?

  Deep Blue Sea is a perfect example.

• 2:06:34Griffin Newman?

  Our friend Ben David Grubinsky.

• 2:06:36David Sims?

  I cannot defend a second of that movie.

• 2:06:37Griffin Newman?

  Our friend Ben David Grubinsky.

• 2:06:39David Sims?

  He goes, "Five stars or nothing."

• 2:06:41Griffin Newman?

  Oh. Well, I basically do that. I now only give a star rating if it's five or if I really think a thing's stinky poo poo and I wanna make a statement with a one.

• 2:06:49David Sims?

  Right, you'll go one.

• 2:06:50Griffin Newman?

  And that's usually, I'm like, "This movie is like cynical, like end of culture bullshit."

• 2:06:54David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:06:54Griffin Newman?

  Um, but I used to do more starings. Now I'm just like, I give it five stars if I'm like, "I'm officially ready to say, 'I think this is a perfect masterpiece.'"

• 2:07:03Speaker 04

  Mm-mm.

• 2:07:03Griffin Newman?

  Uh, officially, what the fuck am I talking about? But otherwise, it's a, it's a binary, like, heart or no heart, right? And I'm just like, and it used to be like, "Heart means I love it." Now I'm like, "Heart means I like it."

• 2:07:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:07:14David Sims?

  Heart means you're positive, yeah.

• 2:07:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think we have to step, I think especially with like, review aggregators, which are so upsetting. It, I just feel like ratings mean less and less. Like, reviews are so much more interesting than like, you know.

• 2:07:30David Sims?

  I don't give grades as a critic because The Atlantic doesn't do that. If I worked somewhere else that did that, I guess. But people don't really do that much anymore.

• 2:07:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, because it is, it's a bit weird to be like, to...

• 2:07:40David Sims?

  But I love my Letterboxd star ratings and I love how mad they make people. Not famous people or important people, but weird nerds who are like, well, he gave three stars to this and then, you know, I also see that he.

• 2:07:52Griffin Newman?

  You reviewed it again, went down half a story.

• 2:07:53Speaker 04

  But listen, it can't be as mad as David Erlich's reviews makes people because that is the fu- like, he cracks me up.

• 2:08:01Griffin Newman?

  Do you know what's so funny is that people get so mad and they're like, this guy fucking sucks, his opinions suck. And then when he swings in and is like, one battle after another, five stars, people are like, we're cooking, we're so back, Erlich likes it.

• 2:08:13Speaker 04

  Like Hammett, yeah, yeah.

• 2:08:14Griffin Newman?

  When he likes the movie you're excited about, suddenly his opinion means a lot.

• 2:08:18David Sims?

  The weird thing that they'll do with him is they're like, well, he didn't like it. That means I'll like it. Cause he didn't like another movie I liked.

• 2:08:26Speaker 04

  Right. Yeah, I have a reviewer that's like that for me where I'm like, I love the reviews, but I.

• 2:08:31David Sims?

  Name, name.

• 2:08:32Speaker 04

  Can you bleep it?

• 2:08:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, of course. Oh, yeah.

• 2:08:35David Sims?

  He's the best example.

• 2:08:37Speaker 04

  He's, I love his reviews, but like.

• 2:08:38Griffin Newman?

  He's a great writer.

• 2:08:39Speaker 04

  He, he rated, um, bleep this movie as well, really highly. And I was like, that's one of the worst films I've seen. And.

• 2:08:47David Sims?

  I would say that, well, I can't talk about this.

• 2:08:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, bleep the whole thing, yeah.

• 2:08:52Griffin Newman?

  Here's like a very specific example to you, right? I'd never seen the Annabelle movies.

• 2:08:56Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:08:57Griffin Newman?

  I'm like, I should fucking watch the Annabelle movies.

• 2:08:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:08:59Griffin Newman?

  The first Annabelle movie.

• 2:09:00David Sims?

  I saw you logging it. The first one is.

• 2:09:02Griffin Newman?

  Absolute dogshit. It is astonishing how bad it is, right? Then the second one is like one of the best, like salvation.

• 2:09:08Speaker 04

  That's one set in the past, right?

• 2:09:09David Sims?

  It's, it's very good. The one with Anthony LaPaola.

• 2:09:11Griffin Newman?

  Right. And I was just sort of like, oh, this one's like resetting the table and just ignoring the first one. And then the last 20 minutes, it finds a way to tie back into everything that was bad in the first one, but make it good retroactively.

• 2:09:21David Sims?

  It's a very solid movie.

• 2:09:22Griffin Newman?

  And I was like, holy shit, heart, heart.

• 2:09:24Speaker 04

  Isn't that the best kind of surprise when you, it's like when I watched The Conjuring for the first time, I was like.

• 2:09:28David Sims?

  You know, who rules? Yeah, good director.

• 2:09:29Griffin Newman?

  So I watched, I watched that, Annabelle.

• 2:09:32David Sims?

  Creation.

• 2:09:32Griffin Newman?

  Creation.

• 2:09:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:09:33Griffin Newman?

  Then I go see your movie, Hada, right? And then I'm like, yeah, loved it, heart. And then I go home and I'm like.

• 2:09:40David Sims?

  Time for Annabelle to come home.

• 2:09:41Griffin Newman?

  And I watched Annabelle come home and I'm like, yeah, pretty good, heart. And then I'm like looking at it and I'm like, does this look weirdly?

• 2:09:48David Sims?

  Is Annabelle, I don't think I've seen her come home.

• 2:09:51Speaker 04

  Me either.

• 2:09:51Griffin Newman?

  I think it's quite good.

• 2:09:52Speaker 04

  Oh, I'm gonna watch that.

• 2:09:53Griffin Newman?

  But I'm like, if you're like two junky horror sequels, but I'm giving hearts and a sandwich around a movie that our friend made. Am I like being rude to Heta or devaluing that?

• 2:10:03Speaker 04

  No, listen, I'll share space with Annabelle.

• 2:10:05Griffin Newman?

  My answer is, I watched three Annabelle movies. I now have a sliding scale of Annabelle movies and I'm like, two of these are good at the assignment of making Annabelle movies.

• 2:10:14David Sims?

  Completely agree.

• 2:10:15Griffin Newman?

  And because the first one is so bad, I'm like, giving the other two positive reviews.

• 2:10:19Speaker 04

  Also, Annabelle and Heta are both two women who are in a world that has boxed them in. Annabelle is literally an adult.

• 2:10:24Griffin Newman?

  Sitting in chairs causing chaos.

• 2:10:25Speaker 04

  Sitting in chairs and beautiful dresses, causing chaos.

• 2:10:28Griffin Newman?

  Causing chaos.

• 2:10:29David Sims?

  I get it. The real Annabelle is just a fucking ragged.

• 2:10:31Griffin Newman?

  Do you know that's the real Annabelle?

• 2:10:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, for sure.

• 2:10:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:34David Sims?

  And then you see the guy who died?

• 2:10:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:36David Sims?

  And then they were like, we found out the cause of death. Cardiac event. And I'm like, fucking Annabelle event is what that was.

• 2:10:42Griffin Newman?

  Cotton in his mouth.

• 2:10:43David Sims?

  Exactly, I should have been touching that doll.

• 2:10:45Griffin Newman?

  Fucking stitched up.

• 2:10:46Speaker 04

  Dude, the whole thing is, and Matt Rife bought the doll.

• 2:10:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Matt Rife bought the fucking Warren house. Matt Rife owns Annabelle now.

• 2:10:52David Sims?

  I hope Annabelle, you know.

• 2:10:54Speaker 04

  He's too powerful if he can afford that.

• 2:10:57Griffin Newman?

  Giving tours of the fucking Annabelle house. Anyway, I think both of the Annabelle sequels are good.

• 2:11:00David Sims?

  Fair enough.

• 2:11:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:02David Sims?

  I haven't seen Annabelle Come Home and I haven't seen The Curse of La Garota.

• 2:11:07Griffin Newman?

  I'm halfway through that one.

• 2:11:08Speaker 04

  I watched that on a plane once.

• 2:11:09David Sims?

  I always mess up the pronunciation.

• 2:11:11Griffin Newman?

  Here's what Annabelle Comes Home does that is smart.

• 2:11:13David Sims?

  Here's what Annabelle Comes Home does that's smart, he says, as we get ready to wrap up on Dead Poets Society.

• 2:11:18Griffin Newman?

  Patrick Wilson and Vera Fogniga are back in it as the Warrens, but they're only at the beginning and the end.

• 2:11:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:11:24Griffin Newman?

  And the movie is basically their young daughter, who's McKenna Grace. It's her birthday and they're like, ah, but we got called in to do some demonic thing. We're sorry we're missing your birthday. We have a babysitter who's gonna watch you. And teen girl, watching McKenna Grace sad, who's starting to get the feelings and is like, struggling with being seen as like, the creepy girl, right? Invites her friend over to help babysit with her.

• 2:11:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:11:50Griffin Newman?

  And her friend is like, oh, the house with all the creepy shit? And she starts fucking with stuff. And then the movie is basically, like a haunted house movie, set in the Warren house when they're not there.

• 2:12:00Speaker 04

  And then we get Vera sometimes being like, something's happening.

• 2:12:04Griffin Newman?

  Very beginning, very end. The superstructure of the movie is basically, what if two teenagers are stuck in the Warren? Without them there.

• 2:12:11David Sims?

  And they're like, what's this bowling ball? And it's like, no, that bowling ball killed eight people in

• 2:12:15Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:12:16David Sims?

  Delaware.

• 2:12:16Griffin Newman?

  Cause the problem with Annabelle is Annabelle doesn't come to life. She doesn't move. She sits in a chair and then bad shit happens.

• 2:12:21David Sims?

  It's crazy. They made three Annabelle movies without.

• 2:12:24Griffin Newman?

  Clearly knew there was not a third movie worth of Annabelle shit. So they were like, put her back in the house and then everything in the house can go wrong.

• 2:12:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:12:31Griffin Newman?

  It's smart.

• 2:12:32David Sims?

  I guess I haven't seen the nun two.

• 2:12:34Griffin Newman?

  The nuns are my next. I'd never watched any of the spin offs.

• 2:12:38David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:38Griffin Newman?

  I was a minimal guy.

• 2:12:40Speaker 04

  The Conjuring, nothing has met the Conjuring.

• 2:12:43David Sims?

  I agree.

• 2:12:44Speaker 04

  Where it is. The Conjuring to me is like one of the best horror films that have come out in the past five years. It's so good.

• 2:12:48Griffin Newman?

  I wish, uh, Juan had come back and done three.

• 2:12:51Speaker 04

  He's so good.

• 2:12:52Griffin Newman?

  He's so good.

• 2:12:53David Sims?

  You mean done three or done four?

• 2:12:54Griffin Newman?

  Well, both, but it felt like they didn't make three for so long and started making all the spin offs. Cause they were like,

• 2:12:59David Sims?

  Fucking busy.

• 2:12:59Griffin Newman?

  He's really busy and he wants to come back eventually. And then it was like, he's never coming back.

• 2:13:03Speaker 04

  Is it cause he was doing, uh, Aquaman?

• 2:13:06Griffin Newman?

  Malignant?

• 2:13:07David Sims?

  I mean, I love that he did malignant. Or malignant rocks.

• 2:13:11Speaker 04

  I, yeah, I had so many emotions watching that film.

• 2:13:15Griffin Newman?

  I love that movie.

• 2:13:16Speaker 04

  That picture.

• 2:13:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:17David Sims?

  So he, Carpe Diem.

• 2:13:20Griffin Newman?

  He ripped the pages out.

• 2:13:21Speaker 04

  He ripped the pages out.

• 2:13:22David Sims?

  What are some other moments that we like? I like when they, they kick the ball and they have to quote lines of poetry. I think that's really fun.

• 2:13:29Speaker 04

  I like the, I think the yop scene where they're, um, the, the camera's spinning around them. And I was like, this is such a great way to just like, the energy of it's so good. Um, I love when Ethan Hawke has to say a one sentence and that's his entire plot. Someone said to me before I started watching it, they were like, yeah, it's interesting because like basically Ethan Hawke's the, the lead of the film. And I watched it and I was like, he's not, he's not less than Robin.

• 2:13:52David Sims?

  Yeah, he's important.

• 2:13:54Speaker 04

  He's offline.

• 2:13:54Griffin Newman?

  He's kind of the passive POV character in a weird way.

• 2:13:58David Sims?

  Crucial that at the end, he's the one saying to him, like, they made a sign that like, you know,

• 2:14:03Griffin Newman?

  He's like the silent observer. You're just kind of pinning throughout the whole movie and then he doesn't really come alive until the end.

• 2:14:09David Sims?

  We're kind of like referencing, do you think Keating's getting out the door for his next? Yeah.

• 2:14:15Speaker 04

  He's going back to England where they don't have internet. So they don't know.

• 2:14:18Griffin Newman?

  I know we made jokes, but can we talk about the Josh Charles thing a little bit? Cause as you said, each of the kids has like a thing they need to self actualize. It like really does not play well today. I'm not even saying this with like modern like, you know, politics. You're just like, it is kind of just like such a creepy movie construction. It is what our friend Chris Gethard calls an ultimate, but I like her plot.

• 2:14:39David Sims?

  Alexandra Powers is the actress.

• 2:14:41Griffin Newman?

  Yes, who's very pretty and has become a Scientologist.

• 2:14:45David Sims?

  Oh, is that right?

• 2:14:45Griffin Newman?

  Her Wikipedia is just like, and then in 2010, she figured it out by becoming a Scientologist.

• 2:14:50Speaker 04

  I did see this, yes.

• 2:14:51Griffin Newman?

  It has a section of like, and then everything got figured out.

• 2:14:54Speaker 04

  Listen, life's hard, man. You gotta, sometimes you gotta just.

• 2:14:57Griffin Newman?

  You gotta incorporate the.

• 2:14:57Speaker 04

  Need something to help you shoulder the weight of the meaningless universe.

• 2:15:00Griffin Newman?

  But Gethard's point was basically, uh, for decades, uh, many, many movies could get away with. If a nice boy cares really deeply, his crush is very genuine.

• 2:15:11David Sims?

  Right. He's not threatening. He's Josh Charles.

• 2:15:14Griffin Newman?

  But I like her. You just stay with it until she finally gives in.

• 2:15:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:15:18Griffin Newman?

  And is like rewarded for it.

• 2:15:20Speaker 04

  So upsetting.

• 2:15:21David Sims?

  And then the story just kind of drops.

• 2:15:22Griffin Newman?

  Look, I think he's good in this and he's sweet and he's charming and you're like, the behavior is so bizarre. He is selling it in a way where you're like not, you're almost falling for it. But she like answers a door and he's like, that is the love of my life. And people are like, okay, can you go off?

• 2:15:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:15:40Griffin Newman?

  And then he's just like, truly, I'm not giving up on this. And they're like, she's got a boyfriend. She's setting boundaries.

• 2:15:45Speaker 04

  She said, no, thank you. She said, don't come to my school.

• 2:15:47Griffin Newman?

  And she's like, yeah, she said some, no, thank you for now.

• 2:15:50Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 2:15:51David Sims?

  You know what this character in SWAT was called?

• 2:15:53Griffin Newman?

  What?

• 2:15:53David Sims?

  T J McCabe.

• 2:15:54Griffin Newman?

  Cool.

• 2:15:55Speaker 04

  That's great.

• 2:15:56Speaker 03

  High school parties are, they have that specific thing where people make out just publicly in front of everyone.

• 2:16:03Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:16:04Speaker 03

  And that only kind of, I feel like lasts for a little.

• 2:16:06David Sims?

  By college, it's like get a room.

• 2:16:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:16:09Griffin Newman?

  It is just so funny to me that the construction of these types of plot lines is so often, oh, sweet, sensitive, nice boys. Self-insert for screenwriter has crush on beautiful, unattainable girl who is dating like meathead.

• 2:16:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:16:22Griffin Newman?

  Sort of like emotionally unbalanced jock, right?

• 2:16:25Speaker 04

  Is this something that is common in life of the? The time period. That's so many stories.

• 2:16:31Griffin Newman?

  I think it is the way that the a certain type of person who is very prone to becoming a screenwriter likes to reframe their experiences.

• 2:16:39Speaker 04

  Of not being liked.

• 2:16:40Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:16:41Speaker 04

  She's trapped by that hot guy.

• 2:16:42Griffin Newman?

  Or make the kind of revisionist history of like, and this is how I wish it had turned out.

• 2:16:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:16:46Griffin Newman?

  But it is always kind of hinging on this moment of the guy lashes out and beats the shit out of the nice boy. And that's the moment that makes her wake up from his spell.

• 2:16:58Speaker 04

  Mm hmm, mm hmm.

• 2:16:58Griffin Newman?

  Right? And then has to sort of like Florence Nightingale tend to him and be like,

• 2:17:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:17:02Griffin Newman?

  He's so awful. I can't believe it. And see.

• 2:17:04Speaker 04

  Cause no one in movies can ever put a bandit on by themselves.

• 2:17:06Griffin Newman?

  Right. It is so crazy that the version of that that happens in this movie is a moment where Josh Charles is empirically in the wrong.

• 2:17:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:17:14Griffin Newman?

  That the thing that makes the guy punch him in the face is.

• 2:17:16Speaker 04

  Is actually valid. Yeah.

• 2:17:17Griffin Newman?

  She's passed on a couch and he's stroking her face and kissing her forehead. Where I'm like, even if I did, there was no background. If this is their first time seeing this guy.

• 2:17:27Speaker 04

  I'd be like, who the fuck are you?

• 2:17:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 2:17:29Speaker 04

  And cause she's also like, yuck.

• 2:17:31Griffin Newman?

  Yes. She wakes up and is freaked out and he's just like, but, but.

• 2:17:35Speaker 04

  But I like you.

• 2:17:36Griffin Newman?

  What if you come see a play with me?

• 2:17:38Speaker 04

  Exactly. And she's like, I guess I'm gonna see the play.

• 2:17:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:40Speaker 04

  You're like, it's very, but no one has really significant, Nawanda, again, my baby girl. I love, love Nawanda. He's the one who I'm most impressed by. And then he disappears.

• 2:17:52David Sims?

  Cause he gets. It's, it's interesting cause he's right. He's the defiant one who's like, we gotta do all this and we gotta have Depoet Society and all that.

• 2:18:00Griffin Newman?

  That, that Robin moment is good too. When he comes back in, he's like expecting to get like applause.

• 2:18:05Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. Yeah.

• 2:18:06Griffin Newman?

  And he's just like, no, dumb, dumb. Don't get kicked out. Like then all of this was for nothing.

• 2:18:11Speaker 04

  Exactly. Like user privileged.

• 2:18:13David Sims?

  Nawanda's the one who gets, his name's Charlie. I'm sorry. Is the one who gets paddled. And I do think the paddling scene is good because it's so ineffectual and yet also horrible. Like it's like, on the one hand, this kid's getting beaten by his teacher, institutional how, the other hand, it's just so weird. It's just like this grown kid, like across the knees of an old man who's got this like, it's just.

• 2:18:36Speaker 04

  Also watching him to see how painful it is. Just like it's dark.

• 2:18:39Griffin Newman?

  But I also think it's good character construction for Keating that he's just like, no, I'm not telling you to just like fuck everything up. Like, I still want you to learn shit.

• 2:18:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:18:49Griffin Newman?

  If you get kicked out of this school, no one's benefiting and I'll get fired, you know? And it's the part of him that you could see so quickly blaming himself, at least partially, for the suicide.

• 2:19:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:19:02Griffin Newman?

  Because it's like, I'm trying to push them just up to the line without breaking them.

• 2:19:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:19:08Griffin Newman?

  Look, the end is.

• 2:19:09David Sims?

  Oh, Captain My Captain!

• 2:19:10Griffin Newman?

  It pays off like a slop of shit.

• 2:19:12David Sims?

  I teared up.

• 2:19:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:19:13David Sims?

  Couldn't believe it.

• 2:19:14Griffin Newman?

  It is just incredibly effective.

• 2:19:16Speaker 04

  Thank you, boys.

• 2:19:16David Sims?

  Shout out Walt, man.

• 2:19:17Speaker 04

  So good.

• 2:19:18David Sims?

  Walt Whitman, the best.

• 2:19:19Speaker 04

  Mr. Whitman.

• 2:19:19David Sims?

  Of course, Oh Captain My Captain is actually about Abraham Lincoln, as Keating says in the movie.

• 2:19:26Speaker 04

  I have that in the Marvel movie that I made, Oh Captain My Captain.

• 2:19:29Griffin Newman?

  I forgot.

• 2:19:30Speaker 04

  This moment, well, unless they cut it, but.

• 2:19:33David Sims?

  Did you not go to?

• 2:19:35Speaker 04

  No, I just.

• 2:19:36Griffin Newman?

  Does Ms. Marvel say that to Captain Marvel?

• 2:19:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, she's like, she's like zooming around, like killing all these Kree in these ships, and then she goes, oh, Captain My Captain, and then we whip pan over to Monica, and she's like, are you good, girl? Like, you're crazy. Yeah, it was funny. But we had a whole, anyway.

• 2:19:53Griffin Newman?

  You had a scene where all the.

• 2:19:55Speaker 04

  All the Kree got up on their chair.

• 2:19:57Griffin Newman?

  That was the joke. I was gonna make the Kree get on their desk.

• 2:19:58Speaker 04

  I stole the bit from the bit boy.

• 2:19:59Griffin Newman?

  They get on their desk. Have fun with that bit.

• 2:20:03Speaker 04

  Thank you so much.

• 2:20:03Griffin Newman?

  It's yours. That's your take home gift.

• 2:20:05David Sims?

  People forget. This film won Best Picture at the British, the BAFTAs.

• 2:20:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it also won Best Foreign Film.

• 2:20:12David Sims?

  At the Caesar's.

• 2:20:13Griffin Newman?

  And the Italian.

• 2:20:14David Sims?

  Oh, wow. Davy di Donatello.

• 2:20:16Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Like, this was kind of the most respected American film in Europe.

• 2:20:22Speaker 04

  Do you think it's because of the suicide?

• 2:20:24Griffin Newman?

  Partially.

• 2:20:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, come on.

• 2:20:25Griffin Newman?

  I think it's also because it's like a movie about like the power of.

• 2:20:30Speaker 04

  Poetry?

• 2:20:31Griffin Newman?

  It's a very romantic film about culture and art.

• 2:20:35David Sims?

  Did it lose Best Picture too?

• 2:20:37Speaker 04

  What year is this?

• 2:20:38David Sims?

  1989.

• 2:20:39Griffin Newman?

  Uh, so this is the year after Rain Man. Um, it loses best picture to Dances with Wolves?

• 2:20:48David Sims?

  Nope, that's the year after.

• 2:20:49Griffin Newman?

  Fuck.

• 2:20:49Speaker 04

  Oh, that's what, that was my guess.

• 2:20:50Griffin Newman?

  What's the thing in between?

• 2:20:52David Sims?

  It's not the most memorable best picture winner.

• 2:20:54Griffin Newman?

  It's, uh, oh, hmm. It is, you've watched them all.

• 2:21:00David Sims?

  Oh, you have, yes.

• 2:21:01Griffin Newman?

  I have not. To date, it is the worst best picture winner I have seen.

• 2:21:04David Sims?

  Oh, it's not even close to the worst I have seen. It's not a very good movie.

• 2:21:07Griffin Newman?

  Driving with Stacey.

• 2:21:08Speaker 04

  Oh, damn.

• 2:21:08David Sims?

  Um, yes.

• 2:21:09Griffin Newman?

  It felt like I was confounded by watching it for the first time last year.

• 2:21:12Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 2:21:13David Sims?

  Really?

• 2:21:13Griffin Newman?

  I just think that movie's nothing.

• 2:21:15Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 2:21:16David Sims?

  It's not mu- it's not nothing. It's fine.

• 2:21:18Griffin Newman?

  I think it's nothing. I was expected to be more like outraged by it while also being like, oh, but it's like a manipulative, it kind of works. And I was just like, this movie's like just a, it, it just feels so slight to me.

• 2:21:30David Sims?

  It's pretty slight.

• 2:21:31Griffin Newman?

  Um, I mean, this is my-

• 2:21:33David Sims?

  It's a stage play.

• 2:21:33Griffin Newman?

  My crazy take. Green Book is better than Driving with Stacey.

• 2:21:37David Sims?

  I have Green Book one above Driving with Stacey on the best picture list.

• 2:21:40Speaker 04

  That is so crazy.

• 2:21:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:42David Sims?

  No, Driving with Stacey is not very good. Uh, it's the year that Born on the Fourth of July is sort of the frontrunner and wins best director. And then Driving with Stacey, I guess is the little movie that could for whatever reason.

• 2:21:53Griffin Newman?

  But is also obviously forever the year that is defined by not nominating Do the Right Thing.

• 2:21:57David Sims?

  Do the Right Thing is obviously resigned to supporting actor and screenplay, but it's also, it's like three of the other nominees are My Left Foot, inspirational true story drama, Dead Poets Society, inspirational quasi true story drama, and then Field of Dreams, made up inspirational-

• 2:22:14Speaker 04

  Wait, Field of Dreams?

• 2:22:16David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:22:16Speaker 04

  Is an Oscar nominated?

• 2:22:19David Sims?

  Don't you come in my house and come at Field of Dreams after defending Dead Poets Society, which is treacle.

• 2:22:28Speaker 04

  You know, you know what it is? I think I saw that movie at a time where a lot of those baseball men, men and cornfield movies were come, were out.

• 2:22:35David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:22:36Speaker 04

  Or at least the, the collection of them, exactly.

• 2:22:38David Sims?

  Sure, yeah.

• 2:22:39Speaker 04

  And so they all sort of are the same in my head because I've not seen them since the nineties.

• 2:22:42David Sims?

  Field of Dreams is incredible.

• 2:22:45Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's pretty, it's one of those movies that you're just like, this should not work.

• 2:22:48Speaker 04

  It's like Bull Durham? I'm kidding.

• 2:22:50David Sims?

  No, Bull Durham is the flip side, which is like, baseball is fucking horny and we're all just here to fuck.

• 2:22:55Griffin Newman?

  Bull Durham's just like straight up the best movie.

• 2:22:57David Sims?

  Field of Dreams is just like, I miss my dad. I think I need to build a cornfield to summon the ghosts of the Chicago Black Sox.

• 2:23:05Speaker 04

  That's what I thought.

• 2:23:06David Sims?

  Field of Dreams is the best.

• 2:23:07Griffin Newman?

  Field of Dreams is like Ratatouille where if you like lay out the plot, you're like, are you insane? What do you mean?

• 2:23:14David Sims?

  But it's about like the sort of the boomer dream like coming, you know, where the boomers are like, "What? What? I'm a grown up now. What the fuck?" You know?

• 2:23:24Speaker 03

  We're forgetting another inspiring film, of course, Major League One and Two.

• 2:23:28David Sims?

  Very inspiring. Let's go win this fucking thing.

• 2:23:29Speaker 04

  I love, I love the one and two of it all. Yes.

• 2:23:32Speaker 03

  You learn. Let's have some fun. Play baseball.

• 2:23:34David Sims?

  Yeah. Those are great movies.

• 2:23:36Griffin Newman?

  Williams loses to Daniel Day Lewis.

• 2:23:38David Sims?

  Williams loses to Daniel Day Lewis.

• 2:23:40Griffin Newman?

  Supporting.

• 2:23:41David Sims?

  Well, there's no nominees for supporting.

• 2:23:43Griffin Newman?

  I know, but I'm saying, I, I love rewatching the fucking Siskel and Eber Oscar specials. And it's a big thing, that whole season where they're just like, and by the way, it is insane category fraud that Robin Williams is in.

• 2:23:54David Sims?

  In the lead.

• 2:23:55Griffin Newman?

  They were just banging that drum.

• 2:23:56Speaker 04

  Who won, who won best supporting that year?

• 2:23:58David Sims?

  Uh, Denzel Washington won best supporting actor for Glory.

• 2:24:01Griffin Newman?

  Okay, so he wasn't gonna be Denzel.

• 2:24:03Speaker 04

  Actually.

• 2:24:04David Sims?

  Wait, who was it? Oh, Robin? No.

• 2:24:06Speaker 04

  I was, I want you to do the mental exercise.

• 2:24:07David Sims?

  You've also got Martin Lando in Crimes and Misdemeanors, which is an incredible performance.

• 2:24:11Speaker 04

  Oh, so it wouldn't have mattered.

• 2:24:12David Sims?

  And Danny D'Ello and do the right thing, which is an.

• 2:24:14Speaker 04

  He just wanted to do the mental exercise.

• 2:24:15David Sims?

  No. It, to me, it is a lead performance in that same way as Hannibal Lecter.

• 2:24:20Speaker 04

  It's energetically, yeah.

• 2:24:21David Sims?

  It is spiritually in the entire movie. He is the focus of the movie in this weird way. It's like, it's not a supporting performance. It's nonsense.

• 2:24:29Griffin Newman?

  I think it's a supporting performance. I think Lecter, I agree with you, Lecter being lead.

• 2:24:33Speaker 04

  Who would be the lead of the movie?

• 2:24:34Griffin Newman?

  Proton Leonard, in my opinion.

• 2:24:36David Sims?

  No.

• 2:24:37Griffin Newman?

  Uh, made the stinky poo poo face.

• 2:24:39David Sims?

  No. And Brenda Fricker won best supporting actress for My Left Foot, which is a lovely performance and she's a wonderful actor.

• 2:24:45Griffin Newman?

  And Tandy wins actress.

• 2:24:46David Sims?

  It's an odd, you know, and Jessica Tandy, of course, wins best actress. Um, this, the Dead Poets Society, filled with ladies. Lead roles. No, I mean, there was, uh, but Dead Poets Society does win best writing screenplay written directly for the screen over. Take a, listen to this.

• 2:25:04Griffin Newman?

  Okay, so it.

• 2:25:05David Sims?

  Listen to who is.

• 2:25:06Speaker 04

  Oh, no. This is why you're mad.

• 2:25:07David Sims?

  It beats, listen to me. Listen to me. Crimes and Misdemeanors, Woody Allen. Say what you will, one of his best films.

• 2:25:13Griffin Newman?

  Perhaps his best work.

• 2:25:14David Sims?

  Do the Right Thing by Spike Lee. Sex, Lies and Videotape by Steven Soderbergh. And When Harry Met Sally by Nora Ephron. By far the worst nominee.

• 2:25:23Speaker 04

  I agree. You know what? I hate the movie now too. It's a piece of shit.

• 2:25:26Griffin Newman?

  I get your ire at the screenplay.

• 2:25:28David Sims?

  It is fucking bananas.

• 2:25:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:30David Sims?

  Any of those wins would be great.

• 2:25:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:33David Sims?

  I mean, Woody Allen would be kind of like, he has enough Oscars, fuck that. But I mean, Spike Lee, Steven Soderbergh, Nora, it's crazy.

• 2:25:39Griffin Newman?

  That is crazy.

• 2:25:40David Sims?

  And obviously, that's the thing.

• 2:25:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:42David Sims?

  I think at the time, it's sort of like, oh, well, they're all up and coming, but guess who else was up and coming? The fucking eight heads in a duffel bag guy.

• 2:25:48Griffin Newman?

  I know.

• 2:25:48David Sims?

  Up and came to nothing.

• 2:25:50Griffin Newman?

  It ends up being like, right.

• 2:25:52David Sims?

  Okay, easy.

• 2:25:55Griffin Newman?

  The anointment is almost like a death sentence for Schulman, whereas everyone else.

• 2:25:59David Sims?

  I mean, obviously, he had a, he had a totally solid Hollywood career, but it's just nuts to look at that list. And you're just like, what?

• 2:26:07Griffin Newman?

  That is crazy.

• 2:26:08David Sims?

  And it is, 89 Oscars is the most like ghastly Oscars because they're like, no, I think I feel the drive of this thing. You know, like they're watching cinema change around them and they're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, let me hold this close.

• 2:26:20Speaker 04

  Who directed Driving the Stays?

• 2:26:21David Sims?

  Of course Bruce Beresford directed it.

• 2:26:23Griffin Newman?

  And it was infamously, at the time, one of the only examples of a movie winning Best Picture without a Best Director nomination.

• 2:26:30David Sims?

  Bruce Beresford, which clear.

• 2:26:31Griffin Newman?

  To the, like even the attitude of that movie at the time.

• 2:26:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:26:35David Sims?

  He was, he was a good director. Breaker Morant's a great movie. Tender Mercies is an amazing movie. Crimes of the Heart is.

• 2:26:41Griffin Newman?

  I like his pre Driving the Stays.

• 2:26:43David Sims?

  Exactly. And then he kind of, it kind of became more of like a Hollywood hack in the 90s.

• 2:26:47Griffin Newman?

  Mr. Church is like one of the worst things I've ever seen in.

• 2:26:49David Sims?

  Double Jeopardy, he directed. Not bad.

• 2:26:51Speaker 04

  Oh my God, is that one of the Ashley Judds? Love the Ashley Judds of the 90s.

• 2:26:55David Sims?

  If you were Ashley Judd in the 90s.

• 2:26:57Speaker 04

  Your husband was always trying to kill you. Yeah, girl, good luck.

• 2:27:00David Sims?

  You're the star of the movie, but you. On a swivel.

• 2:27:07David Sims?

  This film came out June 9th, 1989, in All the summer. Somewhat limited release, 600 screens. So it's opening at number three, $7.5 million, which is amazing per screen average. 680 screens.

• 2:27:21Griffin Newman?

  And it ends up at like 101 domestic?

• 2:27:23David Sims?

  It made domestically, come on the numbers, 95 and worldwide 239. It was, I think worldwide, it was the fifth biggest movie of the year.

• 2:27:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:32David Sims?

  Crazy.

• 2:27:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:33David Sims?

  And it is crazy that it came out in summer because this is like the most fall, wintery movie.

• 2:27:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:38David Sims?

  It ran and ran.

• 2:27:40Griffin Newman?

  The true dominancy of 90s Robin Williams is you have these like huge hits that are like, of course, that's what Robin Williams does, like Aladdin and like Doubtfire and Birdcage.

• 2:27:50Speaker 04

  Is Jack Black the heir to Robin Williams right now?

• 2:27:53David Sims?

  It's a fair.

• 2:27:54Speaker 04

  In the sense of like, I mean, I watched a Minecraft movie on the plane. And I feel like I run on the thing that you hate that movie so much with a deep passion, or did you like it?

• 2:28:04David Sims?

  What?

• 2:28:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:28:05David Sims?

  I did not, I did not like it.

• 2:28:06Griffin Newman?

  I kind of enjoyed that movie.

• 2:28:07David Sims?

  I found it very loud.

• 2:28:09Speaker 04

  Yeah. The plane was louder, so.

• 2:28:12Griffin Newman?

  I also.

• 2:28:13David Sims?

  I think Jack Black is one of those guys where it's like, even the sort of silliest nothing, he's.

• 2:28:18Speaker 04

  He really.

• 2:28:19Griffin Newman?

  We have been talking about this.

• 2:28:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:28:21Griffin Newman?

  Minecraft does feel like the moment where you're like, it is undeniable, he is the greatest family comedy star of all time.

• 2:28:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:28:27Griffin Newman?

  He certainly is the most dominant of all time.

• 2:28:30David Sims?

  Bankable family comedy star.

• 2:28:32Griffin Newman?

  Basically like from the school of rock and.

• 2:28:33David Sims?

  But Robin Williams is a good comp in terms of that kind of like family live action star who made tons of money.

• 2:28:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, I guess he doesn't have the drama.

• 2:28:40David Sims?

  Not as much. He's done some.

• 2:28:43Griffin Newman?

  Right. I think what happened with Jack Black is obviously like, cool, edgy comedy guy, right? Then like makes surprisingly crossover success into family comedy star. Surprising in a way that retroactively makes perfect sense, right? And then he's like, does some things like Margot at the Wedding where he's like trying to stretch himself more.

• 2:29:00David Sims?

  The holiday.

• 2:29:01Griffin Newman?

  No, but it's like, right, those things don't go over well at the time. His adult comedies start bombing and he's like, I guess the only zone I play in is like family comedy star. So he like doubles down on that while doing his YouTube videos and Tenacious D and.

• 2:29:15Speaker 04

  He does YouTube video?

• 2:29:16Griffin Newman?

  Jables?

• 2:29:18Speaker 04

  Oh man, I don't, I don't do the YouTube.

• 2:29:20Griffin Newman?

  Um, but yes, he like, just really was like, as a movie actor, my career is family comedies, and I'm gonna embrace this, and he never fucking phones it in.

• 2:29:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:29:28Griffin Newman?

  And if you zoom out, you're just like, the guy's basically untouched for like, a 25-year run.

• 2:29:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:29:34Griffin Newman?

  And he means like, as much to my little like, six-year-old cousin as he did to like, my sister when she was six.

• 2:29:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:29:41Griffin Newman?

  And to me and whatever. Whereas Robin Williams, it's like, by the time you get to the 2000s, the, the family movies don't work anymore.

• 2:29:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:29:47Griffin Newman?

  The 90s were his sweet spot for that.

• 2:29:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:29:50Griffin Newman?

  I, I would like to see Jack Black be able to like, find his Dead Poets Society, Good Will Hunting.

• 2:29:57David Sims?

  School of Rock is his Dead Poets Society, but like, maybe an even more dramatic version of it.

• 2:30:02Griffin Newman?

  But the way we were talking with Robin Williams, that he found these movies that weren't like, playing against his comedy.

• 2:30:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:30:07Griffin Newman?

  But they recontextualized it, and like, pulled, he needs like, a Peter Weir or someone to pull the thing out of him.

• 2:30:13David Sims?

  I have to tell you that.

• 2:30:14Griffin Newman?

  Maybe it's you.

• 2:30:15David Sims?

  Uh, Disney was freaked out about, uh, the title, and they almost called the movie The Unforgettable Mr. Keating.

• 2:30:22Griffin Newman?

  Well, fuck, that's so hard.

• 2:30:23Speaker 04

  Helps so much.

• 2:30:24David Sims?

  Uh, and they also registered Keating's Way, which is even, that's like, nobody's gonna wanna see that.

• 2:30:30Speaker 04

  That's horrifying.

• 2:30:31Griffin Newman?

  Hutter's Way was pretty recent, right?

• 2:30:32David Sims?

  Yeah, that's true. Um, but Weir was like, this is an accessible movie, like, they're freaking out about nothing, and it starts to test, and they got like, insane scores, and they essentially were like, oh shit, you know? So they moved it right to the middle of summer.

• 2:30:47Griffin Newman?

  It is one of those movies where the ending is so fucking strong that people are gonna be coming out of the theater pumping their fucking fist. And this is an era where like, word of mouth could really make a movie a hit over a sustained period of time.

• 2:30:58Speaker 04

  I thought Ben was gonna punch you again.

• 2:31:00David Sims?

  He's getting me a Sour Patch Kid.

• 2:31:01Griffin Newman?

  Are you pointing out the screenplay Oscar win? It's just like, it does feel like this movie was so huge, they had to give it something.

• 2:31:07David Sims?

  I, I think a little bit, uh, but I also, yeah, I think all the other movies we listed are, were challenging, and this is not as challenging a movie. Now, number one at the box office, though, June 9th, 1989.

• 2:31:18Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:31:18David Sims?

  Now, wait, great.

• 2:31:20Griffin Newman?

  What, what, what's going on?

• 2:31:21David Sims?

  Apparently it opened on eight screens the week before, which is not even listed on the numbers. Do you wanna do that one? We've done the October, we've done the June 9th.

• 2:31:29Griffin Newman?

  Let's do the eight.

• 2:31:29Speaker 04

  Not the same movies, number one?

• 2:31:30David Sims?

  The June 9th one is, by the way, Star Trek V: The Final Frontier.

• 2:31:34Griffin Newman?

  Got it, that's why we've done it.

• 2:31:35David Sims?

  Okay, but, so the week before, June 2nd.

• 2:31:37Griffin Newman?

  Let's do this.

• 2:31:38David Sims?

  Number one at the box office is a big sequel, um, that we've covered on this podcast. A great move.

• 2:31:44Griffin Newman?

  In 1989.

• 2:31:46David Sims?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:31:46Griffin Newman?

  It's a great film, says David.

• 2:31:48David Sims?

  It's also fun. Lots of fun. Been out for two weeks, it's made seventy-seven million dollars.

• 2:31:53Griffin Newman?

  It's not Die Hard Two.

• 2:31:54David Sims?

  Nope. I don't like that movie.

• 2:31:56Griffin Newman?

  I know, that's why I'm surprised.

• 2:31:58David Sims?

  But it's not that.

• 2:31:59Griffin Newman?

  I'm surprised at the version of you I created in my mind.

• 2:32:02David Sims?

  Huge, huge franchise.

• 2:32:03Griffin Newman?

  It's a huge, huge fran- is it a two?

• 2:32:05David Sims?

  Three.

• 2:32:06Griffin Newman?

  It's a three.

• 2:32:07David Sims?

  And for a long time, it was the last, but they made two since.

• 2:32:10Speaker 04

  Is it the, um, the Beverly Hills Cop person? Is that?

• 2:32:13David Sims?

  Do a guess.

• 2:32:14Griffin Newman?

  Hmm. We covered it on main feed or Patreon?

• 2:32:17David Sims?

  Main feed.

• 2:32:18Griffin Newman?

  Main feed. We covered on main- and we cover all of them? It's not?

• 2:32:21David Sims?

  We've covered four or five.

• 2:32:22Griffin Newman?

  It's...

• 2:32:25Griffin Newman?

  Fuck. I was gonna guess it-

• 2:32:27David Sims?

  We've not covered the fifth.

• 2:32:28Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna guess it's Beyond Thunderdome, but now I... There's been one since-

• 2:32:32David Sims?

  It's made seventy-seven million dollars in two weeks. It's a huge hit.

• 2:32:35Griffin Newman?

  There's been one since that we haven't covered.

• 2:32:38David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:38Griffin Newman?

  Is that what you're telling me? The most recent one we didn't do?

• 2:32:40David Sims?

  We have not covered the fifth.

• 2:32:41Griffin Newman?

  Is it Ghostbusters Two? No, you wouldn't call that a great film.

• 2:32:43Speaker 04

  It's a third.

• 2:32:44Griffin Newman?

  It's an eighty-nine film. It's a third.

• 2:32:47David Sims?

  Come on. You're gonna be so mad.

• 2:32:48Griffin Newman?

  Come on. I'm gonna be s- is it like a- is it one of my franchises?

• 2:32:52David Sims?

  You love this movie. This is your favorite of this franchise.

• 2:32:54Speaker 04

  Oh, wow.

• 2:32:55Griffin Newman?

  This is favorite of a franchise? It's a three? And then there was a big gap, and we did four, but we didn't do five. And are they all the same director?

• 2:33:07David Sims?

  No, the first four. That's why we've done those four.

• 2:33:12Griffin Newman?

  What the fuck?

• 2:33:14David Sims?

  You're gonna be so mad at yourself.

• 2:33:16Griffin Newman?

  Is it like based around a character?

• 2:33:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:33:20David Sims?

  Fuck. Wow. What is it?

• 2:33:22Griffin Newman?

  It's not Die Hard. It's not Mad Max. It's not, like, and it's- it's the fucking- who's-

• 2:33:29David Sims?

  Oh, my god. Everyone's screaming at us right now.

• 2:33:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 2:33:32David Sims?

  It's crazy.

• 2:33:32Speaker 04

  I'm gonna hang it up.

• 2:33:33Griffin Newman?

  It's a big-ass hit.

• 2:33:34David Sims?

  Yeah. Probably the biggest movie in nineteen-eighty's department.

• 2:33:37Griffin Newman?

  Oh, fuck.

• 2:33:38David Sims?

  Oh, god. What is it?

• 2:33:40Griffin Newman?

  It's Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

• 2:33:41David Sims?

  There you go.

• 2:33:41Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 2:33:42David Sims?

  Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade!

• 2:33:44Griffin Newman?

  Everyone's right to be angry at me for that one.

• 2:33:46David Sims?

  Uh, especially the clue of like- Director did four, but not the fifth.

• 2:33:50Griffin Newman?

  I know, I know, I know.

• 2:33:51David Sims?

  Uh, number two at the box office is new this week. It is a, an action film starring a, sort of a sports entertainer, I would call him.

• 2:34:02Griffin Newman?

  Is it a wrestler?

• 2:34:03David Sims?

  Yes, and he recently left this mortal coil.

• 2:34:05Griffin Newman?

  Uh, is it suburban commando?

• 2:34:07David Sims?

  It is not that.

• 2:34:08Griffin Newman?

  But I have the right actor, I believe.

• 2:34:09David Sims?

  I believe that is a Hulk Hogan film.

• 2:34:11Griffin Newman?

  Is it No Holds Barred?

• 2:34:13David Sims?

  It is No Holds Barred.

• 2:34:15Griffin Newman?

  That was his real debut star.

• 2:34:16David Sims?

  Uh, correct. Uh, no ring, no ref, no rules. Obviously, his debut is what, Rocky III?

• 2:34:20Griffin Newman?

  But this is a wrestling movie in which he is the lead fighting, uh, uh, Zeus Tiny Lister?

• 2:34:26David Sims?

  Yeah, I've never seen it. Uh, I have no idea if it's good, but I'm gonna guess.

• 2:34:30Speaker 04

  Wow, we just let people do whatever they wanted done, didn't we?

• 2:34:32David Sims?

  Sure did.

• 2:34:33Griffin Newman?

  We used to be a proper country.

• 2:34:34Speaker 04

  Wow, we used to be a real country.

• 2:34:35David Sims?

  But what I like is back then.

• 2:34:36Griffin Newman?

  We used to let Hulk Hogan do whatever he wanted.

• 2:34:38David Sims?

  No, but it'd be like, oh, Hulk Hogan, you wanna be in a movie? Your movie will cost like eight million dollars. Like, it's not gonna be a big movie.

• 2:34:44Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:34:44David Sims?

  You know, it'll be a cheap little action movie, basically.

• 2:34:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:47David Sims?

  And you'll be playing a wrestler.

• 2:34:48Griffin Newman?

  I mean, you know what's a version of this that I like? That like, the first nobody made like thirty million dollars.

• 2:34:54David Sims?

  Totally.

• 2:34:54Griffin Newman?

  And they were like, make a nobody too. Who gives a shit?

• 2:34:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, a thousand percent.

• 2:34:57Griffin Newman?

  Doesn't need to be a hundred million dollars. If it's cheap and you wanna show up.

• 2:35:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:35:00David Sims?

  We can keep making these. These things play on Netflix and stuff.

• 2:35:03Griffin Newman?

  Right, there needs to be different scales of success.

• 2:35:05Speaker 04

  A thousand percent.

• 2:35:06David Sims?

  Number three is a comedy. Uh, it's not, in my opinion, we've covered, I think we've talked, we have not covered it, but we've talked about this one before.

• 2:35:15Griffin Newman?

  We've discussed it.

• 2:35:16David Sims?

  I think it's not good. I've not seen it.

• 2:35:18Griffin Newman?

  In a franchise?

• 2:35:19David Sims?

  No, but it's, it's a star duo that made four films together. This is their third.

• 2:35:23Griffin Newman?

  So it's a prior Wilder?

• 2:35:24David Sims?

  It is. Richard Pryor.

• 2:35:25Griffin Newman?

  Ben's beloved, see no evil, hear no evil?

• 2:35:28David Sims?

  It is, yes.

• 2:35:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:35:29Griffin Newman?

  A movie that, I'm talking about aging.

• 2:35:31David Sims?

  Where Gene Wilder is deaf and Richard Pryor is Brian, blind? Correct?

• 2:35:35Speaker 03

  Correct, yes.

• 2:35:36Speaker 04

  Oh, they're, wow.

• 2:35:37Griffin Newman?

  And they witnessed, they witnessed a murder and they each only can attest a part of it. Is it the other way around, Ben?

• 2:35:41Speaker 03

  I think it's the other way around.

• 2:35:43Speaker 04

  So, didn't they not really get along, but they knew that they were great together?

• 2:35:46Griffin Newman?

  But they didn't not get along, they were just like, yeah, we had like no personal relationship.

• 2:35:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:35:51Griffin Newman?

  Gene Wilder was like, one time we went and saw a movie together. And we didn't have, we like went out to dinner and didn't have anything to talk about, but we had good chemistry.

• 2:35:58David Sims?

  What was the fourth? Because obviously Silver Street can stir crazy. What's the fourth?

• 2:36:02Griffin Newman?

  The fourth one is Another You, which is the true disaster.

• 2:36:04David Sims?

  Uh huh.

• 2:36:05Griffin Newman?

  Pryor's already really sick.

• 2:36:06Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 2:36:07Griffin Newman?

  Bogdanovich was fired off of it halfway through filming.

• 2:36:09Speaker 04

  Oh, Jesus.

• 2:36:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:36:11David Sims?

  Uh, anyway, so that's number three. Number four is a film I brought up, uh, and I was yelling at Nia about, uh, recently, uh, like 10 minutes ago. It was nominated for Best Picture. It's one of the most beautiful movies ever made about the great sport of baseball.

• 2:36:24Speaker 04

  I can't wait to watch it again.

• 2:36:25Griffin Newman?

  It does rule.

• 2:36:27David Sims?

  Uh, number five, uh, is also new this week.

• 2:36:30Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:36:30David Sims?

  And it is not a movie I'm that familiar with. It's an, you know, action movie, uh, with a couple of members of, I guess they were called the Brat Pack.

• 2:36:41Speaker 04

  An action movie?

• 2:36:42Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm. It's an action, it's a Brat Pack action movie?

• 2:36:45Speaker 04

  That feels so scary.

• 2:36:45Griffin Newman?

  It's not wisdom, is it?

• 2:36:47David Sims?

  No. It is not. I don't even know what that is.

• 2:36:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, good pull.

• 2:36:51David Sims?

  Uh, wisdom is, oh, Estebas and more. Very nice.

• 2:36:56Griffin Newman?

  Okay, so it's got two Brat Packers in it?

• 2:36:57David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:36:58Griffin Newman?

  It's not trying to be good, is it?

• 2:36:59David Sims?

  Nope.

• 2:37:00Griffin Newman?

  Act, action.

• 2:37:01David Sims?

  I don't know if you're gonna know this movie. I've never heard of it.

• 2:37:03Griffin Newman?

  Can you give me the Packers?

• 2:37:05David Sims?

  Kiefer Sutherland.

• 2:37:06Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:37:06David Sims?

  And Lou Diamond Phillips.

• 2:37:08Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 2:37:09David Sims?

  And the tagline, feels like they could have maybe worked harder. This one is, the boys are back in town.

• 2:37:14Griffin Newman?

  It's not, it's not Young Guns 2.

• 2:37:16David Sims?

  It is not. Cause that one's got like eight Brat Packers in it, right?

• 2:37:19Griffin Newman?

  I know, that is a movie about boys being back though, in town.

• 2:37:22David Sims?

  The Young Guns.

• 2:37:23Griffin Newman?

  Uh, yeah, I don't know if I know what this is.

• 2:37:25David Sims?

  This film is called Renegades.

• 2:37:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:27David Sims?

  Can't tell you that I know anything else about it.

• 2:37:29Griffin Newman?

  I'm sure like 10 people text us and be like, I can't believe you guys haven't seen Renegades.

• 2:37:33David Sims?

  Jack Shoulder directed it, who's the guy who made that movie, The Hidden, which is a movie I like a lot.

• 2:37:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:37David Sims?

  And he made Nightmare 2, the gay one.

• 2:37:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:41David Sims?

  Uh, so he's got cool movies, but I've never heard of this one really, but it looks like they've got guns and the boys are back in town.

• 2:37:49Griffin Newman?

  Can I make my joke?

• 2:37:50David Sims?

  Please.

• 2:37:50Griffin Newman?

  It was written by Jack and he is produced by Jack Toes.

• 2:37:53Speaker 04

  Bit Boy.

• 2:37:55David Sims?

  Bit Boy. Number six of the box office is the eternal cult legend hit, Roadhouse.

• 2:38:00Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:38:01David Sims?

  Number seven is the film that I've always described as, what if Clint Eastwood played Gene Parmesan, Pink Cadillac? Where he's like, I'm an investigator. I'm a master of disguise. And his disguise is like, I'm a yellow hat guy. He puts on a hat. No one will see me coming. Pretty fun movie.

• 2:38:20Griffin Newman?

  I'm holding a finger under my nose like it's a mustache.

• 2:38:23David Sims?

  Number nine is, Ben, what did you think of this movie? K-9? That's Belushi and the Dog?

• 2:38:29Speaker 03

  I've never seen it.

• 2:38:30David Sims?

  It's Jim Belushi and the Dog, obviously.

• 2:38:31Speaker 03

  I feel like, didn't it come up with the Patrick Williams?

• 2:38:34Griffin Newman?

  Yes, he did his.

• 2:38:36David Sims?

  There's also Cop and a Half and there's.

• 2:38:38Griffin Newman?

  Well, no, it's, it's the Turner and Hooch.

• 2:38:40David Sims?

  Turner and Hooch.

• 2:38:41Griffin Newman?

  And K-9 are the same year. The two dog cop partner buddy movies.

• 2:38:45Speaker 04

  Wait, guys, sorry. I just realized. I looked at my notes. I just wanted to make sure I showed you this picture of Nawanda and Wilson.

• 2:38:52David Sims?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 2:38:53Speaker 04

  It's from the fashion.

• 2:38:54David Sims?

  Why didn't they make out? They could have made out.

• 2:38:57Speaker 04

  They're so cool. I'm doing that. Oh, my God. I'm doing that video podcast thing. Oh, terrible. Where you like, look at this thing on my phone.

• 2:39:04Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 2:39:05Speaker 04

  And I can't describe that well.

• 2:39:06David Sims?

  Right, right, right. No one can see it.

• 2:39:07Speaker 04

  I love your like, you're in front of me. I can see.

• 2:39:09Griffin Newman?

  That's the mystery though.

• 2:39:10Speaker 04

  Text it to me and we'll post it. Put on your, whatever. I'll put on blankies.

• 2:39:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, and put it on those.

• 2:39:15David Sims?

  Number nine of the box office is the Pet Sematary movie, which is a good movie.

• 2:39:19Griffin Newman?

  The first one?

• 2:39:19David Sims?

  Yes. Yeah, not the one that was released recently with Jason Clark.

• 2:39:24Griffin Newman?

  Mary Lambert film?

• 2:39:25David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:25Griffin Newman?

  It's good, Mary.

• 2:39:25David Sims?

  Fun movie. My favorite Stephen King book. And then number 10, Ben.

• 2:39:29Griffin Newman?

  We hit movies, guys.

• 2:39:30David Sims?

  Major League?

• 2:39:31Griffin Newman?

  Nice.

• 2:39:33David Sims?

  And number 11, just to shout it out, is Rain Man. Which is still fucking hanging out six months later.

• 2:39:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I just liked that you were like, oh, I did the video podcast thing that no one can see. I just then remembered Ben is wearing a full schoolboy uniform.

• 2:39:45David Sims?

  Sure is.

• 2:39:46Griffin Newman?

  The amount of energy Ben puts into visual bits.

• 2:39:49David Sims?

  I was like, Ben, you look so fancy. And he was like, yeah, Ted Poe's society.

• 2:39:52Griffin Newman?

  Are you meeting with your accountant?

• 2:39:54Speaker 04

  No, it is like, because I sit across from Ben and I recorded with him. And I, you're just always smiling and you're always just like, present. And you, you're something to be seen.

• 2:40:02Griffin Newman?

  He's a beautiful boy.

• 2:40:02Speaker 04

  Maybe if you did video, it's just Ben.

• 2:40:04David Sims?

  Just Ben.

• 2:40:05Griffin Newman?

  That's, I like this.

• 2:40:06Speaker 04

  That's good. That's good.

• 2:40:07David Sims?

  That wouldn't infuriate people at all.

• 2:40:11David Sims?

  Ben mostly like doing work, you know, like, you know, checking things on the edit or.

• 2:40:14Griffin Newman?

  Into bits for other people to describe on, like.

• 2:40:18Speaker 04

  Exactly. That was so good.

• 2:40:19Speaker 03

  It's theater of the mind.

• 2:40:20Griffin Newman?

  It's theater of the mind.

• 2:40:21David Sims?

  I have to go pick up my daughter.

• 2:40:22Griffin Newman?

  Okay, enjoy, I have to say humble brag again, enjoy your lunch. Nia, thank you for being here.

• 2:40:27Speaker 04

  Thank you so much for having me, this was so fun.

• 2:40:30Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna say everyone should watch The Bone Temple and Hedda, both of which have now been on VOD.

• 2:40:37David Sims?

  Probably.

• 2:40:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:40:38David Sims?

  Probably.

• 2:40:39Griffin Newman?

  For months.

• 2:40:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:40:40Griffin Newman?

  Uh, but really, really, uh, loved Hedda.

• 2:40:42Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 2:40:43Griffin Newman?

  And excited to see Bone Temple, which we will have seen and talked about in our Patreon by this point.

• 2:40:46David Sims?

  Thrilled to watch Bone Temple, and whatever you do next will be so exciting.

• 2:40:50Speaker 03

  Hedda really rocked. I, I watched, I didn't get to see it in the theater, I watched the screener, but I had such a great time. It really affected me where I realized I need to start playing more games with people in my life.

• 2:41:01Speaker 04

  No, you should, I think you should.

• 2:41:02David Sims?

  No, no, no, don't, don't, don't be.

• 2:41:03Griffin Newman?

  Don't take lessons from.

• 2:41:04David Sims?

  What? No, that was my takeaway.

• 2:41:07Griffin Newman?

  Nope.

• 2:41:08Speaker 04

  Listen, everyone has their own takeaway at the end of the film. Uh, it's an ambiguous ending. No, thank you guys, I mean, it's a lot, not really. I'm really, I think I emailed you guys, I was like, I'm so proud of these two movies, I'm so happy.

• 2:41:19David Sims?

  I'm very happy you're making movies that you can, when we see you, be like, I'm excited!

• 2:41:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, I know, it's, it's nice.

• 2:41:26Griffin Newman?

  In the arc of the time since we've done this.

• 2:41:28Speaker 04

  Cause you were, like you were saying, like at the beginning, like every time you see me, I've been like, well, like smoking a cigarette.

• 2:41:34Griffin Newman?

  You vent all the stuff that we can't say on mic, and I'm like.

• 2:41:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:41:40Griffin Newman?

  Um, always a pleasure to have you on.

• 2:41:41Speaker 04

  Thank you, guys.

• 2:41:42Griffin Newman?

  Uh, and thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Uh, tune in next week for?

• 2:41:49David Sims?

  Yeah, great question.

• 2:41:50Griffin Newman?

  Green Card is next?

• 2:41:51David Sims?

  I, I.

• 2:41:51Griffin Newman?

  Is that right?

• 2:41:52David Sims?

  I think you're right, but I'm just double checking.

• 2:41:53Griffin Newman?

  He finally got to make Green Card because of the success of this?

• 2:41:55David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, it was, um, we'll get into it, but it was a thing where schedules had to wait or whatever, but, uh, yes.

• 2:42:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:42:01David Sims?

  Next is the wonderful, in my opinion, film, Green Card.

• 2:42:04Griffin Newman?

  Starring unproblematic fave.

• 2:42:09David Sims?

  It was the 90s.

• 2:42:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Uh, and, and as always, Carpe Diem, motherfucker.

• 2:42:24Griffin Newman?

  Oh, oh, oh, I gotta do my Robin vocal war bombs. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Okay, terrible impression coming.

• 2:42:34Speaker 03

  Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hostly. Our creative producer is Marie Bardi Salinas and our associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lain Montgomery in the great American novel with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Holly Moss and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to BlankCheckPod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes.

• 2:43:19Speaker 03

  Follow us on social at Blank Check Pod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.