Witness with Amanda Dobbins

Strap in, DobMob...we're going to Amish Country! The Big Picture's Amanda Dobbins joins us to talk about Peter Weir's Witness, perhaps the zenith of Harrison Ford's hotness, and the film that garnered him his sole Oscar nomination. We're talking Rumspringa, birds and birdhouses (Amanda is not a fan), Philadelphia's 30th Street Station, and young Viggo (which naturally lends itself to LOTR discussion). Listen up, or else you'll be shunned from the Blankie community! Listen to Griffin and Ben on The Daily Zeitgeist⁠ https://omny.fm/shows/the-daily-zeitgeist/movies-that-built-the-zeigeist-with-griffin-and-ben-from-blank-check-08-26-25#sharing ⁠Check out the Kyle Chandler Men's Health Cover mentioned ⁠ https://www.ebay.com/itm/274637799858 ⁠Watch Tracy Letts talk shit about Star Wars⁠ https://www.tiktok.com/@thebigpicturepod/video/7552212706229620023 ⁠Read Roger Ebert's Review⁠ https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/witness-1985 ⁠Listen to The Big Picture⁠ The%20Big%20Picture%20|%20Podcast%20on%20Spotify%20%20Spotify%20https://open.spotify.com%20%E2%80%BA%20show ⁠Listen to Jam Session⁠ https://open.spotify.com/show/5KfKr4ORhLv7Rj8a5mwsNU?si=f42782d67ac84ed4 Sign up for Check Book https://blankcheckpod.substack.com/welcome, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter https://x.com/blankcheckpod?lang=en, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/blankcheckpod/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@blankcheckpod?xmt=AQGzctAh4mbWTwYzCV1pzNT6AMV9o99EOfymi8TLR5mTde0 and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/blankcheckpodcast/! Buy some real nerdy merch https://kinshipgoods.com/blankcheck Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/s/gpcOkQr8Sv or Discord https://discord.gg/Q6YGSR3JrA For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com https://www.blankcheckpod.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 0:03David Sims?

  Yep.

• 0:03Griffin Newman?

  We did a live show.

• 0:04David Sims?

  Yeah, remember?

• 0:05Griffin Newman?

  Ranking Scorsese at the Bell House in Brooklyn. We did the definitive power ranking of Martin Scorsese things.

• 0:12David Sims?

  Uh, it was so fun. Uh, it was very silly.

• 0:15Griffin Newman?

  Ben and Marie were with us and they're with us right now.

• 0:18David Sims?

  Yeah, hey.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Hey, everyone, or should I say, oh?

• 0:20David Sims?

  Oh.

• 0:22Griffin Newman?

  And thanks to our friends at Dynasty Typewriter. It was livestreamed for the first time ever. But also, the replay is still up there, but only until October 30th.

• 0:31David Sims?

  So just a few more days. Yes. You can get it at dynasty.tv. Dynasty.tv. It's $20. We had a blast and the Spreadmaster really got to work. Oh, yeah. I was moving things around.

• 0:45Griffin Newman?

  Laptop was on.

• 0:45Speaker 02

  I don't know if I'd have seen you that happy.

• 0:48Griffin Newman?

  You were thrilled. You were like a picky chick.

• 0:50David Sims?

  I was locked in.

• 0:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, very locked in and you were funny.

• 0:53David Sims?

  Thank you. You were funny. You were also funny.

• 0:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, thank you.

• 0:57David Sims?

  And if you want to see like, you know, Griffin's shine box on camera, it's the only way to see it.

• 1:02Griffin Newman?

  You might see me shine Marie's shoes.

• 1:04David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you're into that sort of content.

• 1:07Griffin Newman?

  If that gets you off.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:10David Sims?

  So once again, that's at dynasty.tv.

• 1:39David Sims?

  If we'd podcasted last night, I'd have to stay or you'd have to leave.

• 1:46Griffin Newman?

  That is the line of the movie for me. It's maybe a low-energy way to start the podcast. It's the line of the movie.

• 1:51David Sims?

  It's the tagline. You should have just done the tagline.

• 1:53Griffin Newman?

  Well, let me do the tagline now as an alternate. Let me do the tagline now as an alternate. I just really want to do that line.

• 1:57David Sims?

  Go ahead. Do it.

• 2:00Griffin Newman?

  Harrison Ford is John Book, period. That's the biggest font.

• 2:04David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 2:05Griffin Newman?

  Okay?

• 2:06David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:06Griffin Newman?

  And then, right down underneath it, almost like small print on the back of a fucking aspirin bottle. A big city cop, a small country boy. They have nothing in common, but a podcast.

• 2:17David Sims?

  Exactly. That's why it's perfect.

• 2:19Griffin Newman?

  Do you think putting Harrison Ford is John Book that big was them being like, "We need to fucking Indiana Jones this thing. We need to sell..."

• 2:28David Sims?

  It's a good question.

• 2:28Griffin Newman?

  He's playing another iconic character. Like, can we gabbo them into thinking, "I'm supposed to know who John Book is."

• 2:35Speaker 03

  I would like to talk about the name John Book.

• 2:37Griffin Newman?

  It's one of the great names.

• 2:37David Sims?

  It's an incredible name, so maybe they're just so proud of the name.

• 2:40Speaker 03

  And it does feel like they picked the name John Book for that, like, franchisability, right? The Indiana Jones of it all. It's Mr. Book, or

• 2:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:50Speaker 03

  just Book, you know, as Samuel calls him throughout the thing.

• 2:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:53Speaker 03

  So, I do, yes, I think that it's, it's sort of like a, a big, bold Mad Libs attempt, right? You know, we have Harrison Ford, we have John Book.

• 3:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:04Speaker 03

  A name you know, a name you're gonna know.

• 3:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, and the guy had had a track record at this point of already creating two fucking beyond iconic franchise characters.

• 3:13Speaker 03

  Right.

• 3:13Griffin Newman?

  What were you gonna say, David?

• 3:15David Sims?

  I, I'd like to know. I'd love to, you know, sit in on whatever meeting this was back when. Because it's like, yeah, how do you automatically sell this? Right? You know, like, it's not, this is not an, "Oh, we know what to do." It's about an Amish boy who witnesses a crime at a train station, and then, of course, the cop has to hide it. You know, like, you can't do that.

• 3:33Griffin Newman?

  Giant?

• 3:34David Sims?

  You can't, you can't set that up in a poster.

• 3:36Griffin Newman?

  Beautiful painting of Harrison Ford's face. And if you look closely, you're like, "Is that an Amish boy?" But even the tagline-

• 3:43David Sims?

  It's just a little, yeah, it looks like Children of the Corn, like, if you just look at the boy.

• 3:47Griffin Newman?

  But it's dark, in darkness, so it's like, it's a little abstracted-

• 3:50David Sims?

  I think you, look, he had just been to the Temple of Doom. And before that, he had returned with the Jedi. He'd run with the blades. He'd raided the Lost Ark.

• 4:01Speaker 03

  Right.

• 4:01David Sims?

  So, like, it's one of those things where it's like, "This is Harrison Ford."

• 4:04Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 4:05David Sims?

  And he's playing another guy.

• 4:08Griffin Newman?

  Exactly.

• 4:08David Sims?

  And I guess that really is just the overriding thing of like, you like it.

• 4:12Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 4:12David Sims?

  When Harrison Ford plays a person with a name.

• 4:15Griffin Newman?

  I just think that Blade Runner had bombed.

• 4:18David Sims?

  Yeah, Blade Runner had bombed. The others had not.

• 4:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:20Griffin Newman?

  And Indiana Jones is sold on Adventure has a name, right?

• 4:24Speaker 03

  Right.

• 4:25David Sims?

  Indiana Jones.

• 4:25Griffin Newman?

  That if they're trying to do the like, okay, what worked, what didn't thing, they were like, will people go see a Harrison Ford movie if they feel like we're introducing him to his next guy?

• 4:36David Sims?

  I think that's.

• 4:36Speaker 03

  Yes, I think you're totally right, but you can't enumerate what the guy does because it milks a cow, you know, uh, like fixes a car.

• 4:45David Sims?

  Dances.

• 4:45Speaker 03

  Dance.

• 4:46David Sims?

  Sam Cooke.

• 4:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:47David Sims?

  We'll talk about it.

• 4:47Griffin Newman?

  There's no way to explain it. And, and even the poster is saying like city cop, country boy.

• 4:52Speaker 03

  Right.

• 4:53David Sims?

  Right. Which is, that's, that's good.

• 4:55Griffin Newman?

  It's not a lie.

• 4:56David Sims?

  No, I would hate for them to lie.

• 4:58Griffin Newman?

  But if you were to ask anyone now to describe Witness, you'd be like the Amish movie.

• 5:03Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 5:03Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 5:04David Sims?

  There's no need to hide that.

• 5:06Speaker 03

  No, no, you'd be Sam Cooke and the Bard.

• 5:08David Sims?

  No, what, here's what Witnesses, if you said the Amish, people would be like the Witness people.

• 5:14Griffin Newman?

  That, you're right.

• 5:15David Sims?

  For 20 years.

• 5:15Griffin Newman?

  It defines them.

• 5:16David Sims?

  I think at this point, that's not true anymore.

• 5:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 5:18David Sims?

  But I think in the eighties and nineties, you're the Amish, oh, from Witness?

• 5:22Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 5:22David Sims?

  The guys from Witness.

• 5:23Griffin Newman?

  Right. This movie almost had like a Rain Man autism effect.

• 5:26David Sims?

  If you live in Pennsylvania, you're not like that, but if you live in Switzerland.

• 5:30Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 5:30David Sims?

  You're like, yeah, I know the Amish from Witness.

• 5:32Griffin Newman?

  From Witness.

• 5:33David Sims?

  They might well be made up to me. Like, maybe were they made up for that movie? Is that a real thing or not? I don't even know. Who knows?

• 5:39Griffin Newman?

  No one knows. I don't, I, I'll be astonished if JJ has a definitive answer. If in his research, he found out for certain whether or not the Amish exists. It's an unanswerable question. We pay a researcher? There's, it's just beyond his ability this week.

• 5:56David Sims?

  You ever been to Amish country?

• 5:58Speaker 03

  I haven't.

• 5:58David Sims?

  You're married to a Pennsylvanian.

• 6:00Speaker 03

  So I have been to 30th Street Station.

• 6:02David Sims?

  Of course.

• 6:02Speaker 03

  Which is where the inciting incident and I am, I'm here in New York with you guys, which is so lovely. And I've been sitting with my sister-in-law, Ruthie, also a native Philadelphian. And she was telling me, both she and Zach, my husband, said, yes, this movie was shown to us as a Philadelphia movie.

• 6:19Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 6:19David Sims?

  It is.

• 6:20Speaker 03

  We were, we were sat down at a young age and we were like, Philadelphia.

• 6:24David Sims?

  My friend who lives in Philadelphia, I texted her right away, I'm watching a Philly movie, baby. And yes, it's like only 20 minutes worth, but still.

• 6:29Speaker 03

  Sure, but then what Roosie told me that my husband had not told me, and maybe doesn't recall, is that my husband was then terrified to go to the bathroom at the 30th Street Station.

• 6:41Griffin Newman?

  That makes perfect sense.

• 6:42Speaker 03

  For many years.

• 6:43David Sims?

  Does the bathroom look like that, or is it a set? Like, does it, I mean, I assume now it does not have wooden saloon.

• 6:48Speaker 03

  Well, I actually haven't been in the men's bathroom at 30th Street Station.

• 6:52David Sims?

  Do your research next time you come to my podcast.

• 6:54Speaker 03

  I honestly don't know if I've been in the women's bathroom either, but I think.

• 6:58Griffin Newman?

  Being a bit of a JJ now.

• 6:59Speaker 03

  You know, I, I, I do think that it's on the outside, you know, it looks the same. And that's, that's enough for him to say, I don't want to do it. This also ties into the fact that I, I believe my father-in-law was showing them movies a little bit sooner than perhaps they were emotionally ready, which is like what we did in the eighties, right?

• 7:18David Sims?

  Look, I don't know, you're a mother, you're a parent to kids.

• 7:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean.

• 7:22David Sims?

  You're constantly like, is this the moment for this, or are we not ready for this?

• 7:26Speaker 03

  Not really. I'm just like, here is the first hour of Top Gun Maverick, because you like airplanes. Um, and, and also I have found that there's, my older son is three and a half now.

• 7:38David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 7:38Speaker 03

  But for a while, he didn't understand the concept of scary.

• 7:43David Sims?

  No, they don't. They don't know until for a while, right.

• 7:45Speaker 03

  To be scared and he wasn't engaging with the emotional stuff.

• 7:49David Sims?

  And then that, that appears later.

• 7:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, so there was like a lot of stuff at age two and a half that he could be into and now.

• 7:55Griffin Newman?

  Before.

• 7:56Speaker 03

  And now he's like, I can tell that everyone is like, is very tense and, and I don't like this.

• 8:01Griffin Newman?

  Well, it's like that thing when a kid falls and they can't decide whether to cry.

• 8:05Speaker 03

  Yes, totally.

• 8:06Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 8:06Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 8:07David Sims?

  And you go like, you're okay, you're okay. And they go like, okay.

• 8:10Speaker 03

  But also Halloween decorations.

• 8:12Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:13Speaker 03

  He's still, like, everything that's supposed to be gory and gross, he just toddles right up and is like, hey, look at these lights.

• 8:19Griffin Newman?

  He likes the design.

• 8:19Speaker 03

  You know, like, because he doesn't know that it's supposed to be grotesque. It's learned behavior, I guess.

• 8:25Griffin Newman?

  My, my, uh, ten year old little cousin, uh, who I take to movies a lot. His dad, when I was growing up, was the one who took me to movies I shouldn't see and sold me Guns N' Roses albums and whatever.

• 8:38Speaker 03

  Awesome.

• 8:38Griffin Newman?

  And I dropped him off after a movie and he and, uh, his wife, we're not arguing, but we're like, we want your opinion on this because we've been going back and forth. And for years it had been like, hey, don't show George this, he might be too young. Like, I was very respectful, but they seemed very cautious about what was being fed to him. And they were like, am I crazy in thinking that in our side of the family, the tradition is everyone sees everything too young?

• 9:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:03Griffin Newman?

  And I was like, a little bit of it, there were certainly things my parents banned, but then like, R rated comedies, this and that. And he was like, and none of us turned out fucked up, right? And I'm like, I don't know, we can debate this. And then between that conversation and the next time I saw George, he had seen every R rated movie on the planet.

• 9:19Speaker 03

  Well, that's how we did it in our generation, right?

• 9:21Griffin Newman?

  He seems to be doing well.

• 9:23Speaker 03

  Even the-

• 9:23Griffin Newman?

  Nothing's wrong. Don't, don't make that face, David. You're not hanging out with George.

• 9:27David Sims?

  We're all fucked up, is all I want to say.

• 9:30Griffin Newman?

  I'm fucked up, of course I'm fucked up.

• 9:31Speaker 03

  But we have incredible taste.

• 9:33Griffin Newman?

  We do.

• 9:33Speaker 03

  You know?

• 9:34Griffin Newman?

  We're professional podcasters.

• 9:36Speaker 03

  And now there was either, even, even the stuff for kids in the eighties.

• 9:42Griffin Newman?

  Very different.

• 9:42Speaker 03

  Was really weird.

• 9:43David Sims?

  That's the real problem.

• 9:44Griffin Newman?

  That's the big problem.

• 9:45Speaker 03

  Is that the problem?

• 9:46David Sims?

  Or is that a- That was the, that was the tenor of, yes, exactly, of children's entertainment.

• 9:51Speaker 03

  And now everything is for eight year olds, whether you're three, eight, or forty two.

• 9:57David Sims?

  It's interesting, I saw Tron.

• 9:58Speaker 03

  Which I'm not yet, by the way.

• 10:00Griffin Newman?

  Congratulations, by the way.

• 10:01David Sims?

  I know. And of course, this is posting six months after it's released. But, you know, that's a film for teenagers. I mean, and for grown, important, mature men like me, but mostly for teenagers. And it has imagery in it, um, of like people kind of disintegrating because they're- Digital creatures.

• 10:18Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 10:19David Sims?

  Whatever, you know, all the Tron shit.

• 10:21Griffin Newman?

  De-resing.

• 10:21David Sims?

  Yeah, that like, I was like, objectively, this is quite nightmarish. This is like a person crumbling into ash, sort of, right?

• 10:29Griffin Newman?

  That's also like every Amblin movie had that.

• 10:31David Sims?

  And then I was like, I guess that's just sort of baked into, right? Like, action kids adventure shit.

• 10:38Griffin Newman?

  It's also, yes.

• 10:39David Sims?

  But now, like, the tech is so good that it's like, this is like, I just watched Jodie Turner Smith's beautiful person.

• 10:46Griffin Newman?

  Well, it's pillars.

• 10:47David Sims?

  Wow, they're always, they de-res like four billion, everyone in that movie is de-resing and re-resing.

• 10:52Griffin Newman?

  It's just funny that you like come to the realization, I guess Tron areas is ostensibly for teenagers.

• 10:58David Sims?

  Right.

• 10:59Griffin Newman?

  Three times in a row.

• 11:00David Sims?

  The real question with Tron.

• 11:01Griffin Newman?

  Over decades.

• 11:02David Sims?

  Tron X is always like, is this for anybody?

• 11:04Griffin Newman?

  This is a movie for teenagers. And every time teenagers bat it the fuck down. And then like 20 years later, they're like, okay, I think we've identified who it's actually for. Teenagers.

• 11:14David Sims?

  What, what's our podcast?

• 11:15Griffin Newman?

  Our podcast is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

• 11:18David Sims?

  And David. And who's our guest? Well, first, what's the podcast about?

• 11:21Griffin Newman?

  That's the way this podcast goes.

• 11:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:23Griffin Newman?

  It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success, early on in their careers, and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce, baby.

• 11:35David Sims?

  Yes.

• 11:36Griffin Newman?

  Here's a man who had a, a, a arc one, act one, success. And then this is his turning point into act two.

• 11:45David Sims?

  Well, this is his Hollywood.

• 11:46Griffin Newman?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 11:47David Sims?

  Yeah, this is his leap to Hollywood.

• 11:49Griffin Newman?

  Nothing bounced yet, but it was just.

• 11:51David Sims?

  Not at all, right.

• 11:53Griffin Newman?

  The, the credit was mounting in Australia.

• 11:55Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 11:56Griffin Newman?

  And he makes the leap now and does it with flying colors. We're talking about Peter Weir.

• 12:01David Sims?

  We are, we are.

• 12:02Griffin Newman?

  It's a mini-series called Podnik at Hanging Cast.

• 12:05David Sims?

  That's right.

• 12:05Griffin Newman?

  Because David thinks that podnik is the funniest thing anyone's ever said.

• 12:09David Sims?

  I think podnik is really funny.

• 12:10Speaker 03

  Podnik is funny.

• 12:11David Sims?

  I want to give credit to JJ who pitched Podnik at Hanging Cast.

• 12:15Griffin Newman?

  And is fired. Now, I wanted to do Podster and Castmander, the pod side of the cast. Cause I was like, this is a rare opportunity.

• 12:22Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 12:23Griffin Newman?

  To get two pods and two casts into one title.

• 12:26Speaker 03

  It is long. And I was like, and I, I, despite being a podcaster, am more of a. A visual than an audio learner, so I was like really hanging on there.

• 12:37Griffin Newman?

  Visually it was gonna be tough. Visually it was gonna be tough, yeah. Our guest today, returned to the show.

• 12:42David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 12:43Griffin Newman?

  For only the second time. And look, this is on me, I should never look at the Reddit, but I happened to check last night.

• 12:49Speaker 03

  Why did you look at the Reddit? I don't wanna know. I mean, I guess you've been.

• 12:51Griffin Newman?

  The wind was blowing in the wrong direction.

• 12:53Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 12:54Griffin Newman?

  And the Reddit thread was, "How has Amanda Dobbins only been on once and Sean Fantasy has been on three times?" All caps, U slash Travis Bickle.

• 13:06Speaker 03

  Well.

• 13:07Griffin Newman?

  And I didn't lay in, but I just wanted to be there.

• 13:08Speaker 03

  In your defense, I think you guys, you do like to do it in person, which I like as well.

• 13:12Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 13:12Speaker 03

  Sean has been here more. I was on parental leave for a while.

• 13:15Griffin Newman?

  Exactly.

• 13:15David Sims?

  You had child.

• 13:17Speaker 03

  I'm, yeah, I'm back in the mix. I think I was pregnant for Thomas Crown Affair and not telling anyone, so that's part of it.

• 13:23David Sims?

  Wait, so you were lying to me?

• 13:27Speaker 03

  I think it was, it was a sin of omission. Thank you so much. Um, yeah, so, you know, and listen, um, our, our, our, our society is structured, you know, inequally when it comes to, to, to women having it all. And having access to being in person for podcast studios.

• 13:46Griffin Newman?

  Thirty-three point three percent of the podcast appearances that men get.

• 13:49Speaker 03

  It's true, but I'm, I'm back.

• 13:52Griffin Newman?

  You're back.

• 13:52Speaker 03

  I'm done.

• 13:53Griffin Newman?

  Amanda Dobbins from the big picture.

• 13:55David Sims?

  You're done.

• 13:56Speaker 03

  I am, I am out. O U T.

• 13:59Griffin Newman?

  No, this is what I wanna talk about.

• 14:00Speaker 03

  Of, of having children, not of blind check. No, no, no, no. This is the, this, like, you know?

• 14:05David Sims?

  Amanda and I are just connecting on this moment, cuz it is.

• 14:07Griffin Newman?

  Second time's the start.

• 14:08Speaker 03

  I'm just declaring it in many places as possible. No, no, much like Peter Weir.

• 14:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 14:14Speaker 03

  That was my Australian new wave face.

• 14:16David Sims?

  Right, and it's over.

• 14:17Speaker 03

  Here I am, Hollywood baby.

• 14:18Griffin Newman?

  Right now Hollywood.

• 14:19Speaker 03

  Harrison Ford is John Book.

• 14:21Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 14:21Speaker 03

  Is me.

• 14:22David Sims?

  Harrison Ford is John Book.

• 14:23Griffin Newman?

  Now, here's the other part of it.

• 14:24David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 14:25Griffin Newman?

  This, now your second appearance.

• 14:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:27Griffin Newman?

  I feel like these are two of the three movies I hear you cite the most as feeling like the most impactful on your development as like a movie fan and a movie watcher.

• 14:37Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 14:39Griffin Newman?

  It has now created a standard, which isn't to say we can't have you on for something else, but it feels like in both of these cases.

• 14:44David Sims?

  Oh, that's true, right? Thomas Crown and Witness, formative.

• 14:47Griffin Newman?

  Right, we, we lock on the director and I say to David, Dobbins, and we just text you and you immediately text back all caps, absolutely.

• 14:55David Sims?

  Witness.

• 14:55Griffin Newman?

  It was just an obvious slam dunk.

• 14:57Speaker 03

  So, so these are also films that like were successful.

• 15:02Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 15:02Speaker 03

  At the time, but are not canonized.

• 15:06Griffin Newman?

  They're a little forgotten.

• 15:07Speaker 03

  In the, in the, in the general.

• 15:09David Sims?

  I was thinking about this.

• 15:10Speaker 03

  Letterboxd film nerd.

• 15:11David Sims?

  Yes, I guess that's a good way to put it.

• 15:14Speaker 03

  But they were, they were important to my cinematic development and I've got a whole lot more of those. Have you guys done Run Howard yet?

• 15:21David Sims?

  No, we have not.

• 15:21Speaker 03

  Apollo 13, like just book it right now.

• 15:24Griffin Newman?

  The other one I was, John Book it, the other one I was gonna say, I feel like.

• 15:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:29Griffin Newman?

  In, in that trilogy is Working Girl. I feel like Working Girl, Witness.

• 15:34Speaker 03

  Like a three to five thousand, yes.

• 15:37Griffin Newman?

  Are the three I always hear.

• 15:38Speaker 03

  And I have one more for you.

• 15:40Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 15:40Speaker 03

  Even though I'm pretty sure, well, first of all, like have you done Rob Reiner?

• 15:45David Sims?

  No.

• 15:46Speaker 03

  Okay, well.

• 15:46David Sims?

  Here's the whole issue with Rob Reiner.

• 15:47Speaker 03

  I know, it falls off a cliff.

• 15:48David Sims?

  It falls off.

• 15:49Speaker 03

  It falls off a cliff, but that's fine.

• 15:50David Sims?

  We could do pre Cliff Reiner is what, is the sort of deal.

• 15:53Speaker 03

  First of all, I hosted what I believe was my 10th, maybe 11th birthday party at the movie theater to see North. So.

• 16:00Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 16:00Speaker 03

  But that's not my pick.

• 16:01Griffin Newman?

  A movie that is a stealth.

• 16:03Speaker 03

  Which is.

• 16:03Griffin Newman?

  Witness sequel?

• 16:04Speaker 03

  Well, sure, but is also, but it's off the cliff.

• 16:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 16:07David Sims?

  North is the beginning, it's the.

• 16:09Griffin Newman?

  It's a cliff.

• 16:09David Sims?

  Right.

• 16:10Speaker 03

  Sure. But, but, but American President.

• 16:14David Sims?

  Oh, yes, yes.

• 16:15Speaker 03

  You know, it's like, is another one.

• 16:16David Sims?

  American President is after North, I believe, in his filmography. And so that's when he pulls the parachute and it deploys.

• 16:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 16:23David Sims?

  And he's like, American President.

• 16:24Speaker 03

  And he's like, I still got it.

• 16:25David Sims?

  The parachute starts to catch on fire.

• 16:28Griffin Newman?

  The parachute works, he just happens to land inside of a volcano.

• 16:31David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah. American President, I know is a big one for you.

• 16:35Speaker 03

  Right.

• 16:35David Sims?

  I would love to do that movie one day.

• 16:36Speaker 03

  But so, you know, there is a whole.

• 16:37Griffin Newman?

  There's, there are others.

• 16:38Speaker 03

  Right.

• 16:38David Sims?

  There's others.

• 16:39Griffin Newman?

  It just feels like we've gotten two huge ones.

• 16:42David Sims?

  But you know, in Apollo 13, American President and Thomas Crown Affair, that's, and you're, we're similar ages. Like, that's, you're, you know, becoming like a teenager, like, these are movies from the mid 90s that we watched. Same for me. Witness is from the 80s.

• 16:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:57David Sims?

  And Witness, maybe for you, it was for me, was a, a home video.

• 17:02Speaker 03

  Oh, absolutely.

• 17:02David Sims?

  I think you're kind of ready for this movie, because this is like a, you know, you know, there's, in a perfect world, this would be rated, I guess, like, well, in sort of the British rating, like, this is kind of a rated 15 movie, right? Where it's like, it's got a little violence.

• 17:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, it has one pair of tits.

• 17:16David Sims?

  It has a hint of nudity.

• 17:17Griffin Newman?

  It's got a single pair of tits.

• 17:18David Sims?

  But like, by and large, it's not too intense, and it's, it's, it's adult, but it's sort of like, you know, you can engage with it as a teenager.

• 17:26Griffin Newman?

  It also falls into the category of, if you're interested in watching this, you're old enough to watch this, right?

• 17:32David Sims?

  Right.

• 17:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:32Griffin Newman?

  There's no, like, dumb.

• 17:34David Sims?

  Hey, this movie has zero lasers, and you're like, yeah, well, I don't know, that's interesting.

• 17:37Griffin Newman?

  You're gonna have to really lock in to get to the boobs, and the boobs are gonna make you a little emotionally confused.

• 17:42Speaker 03

  Right.

• 17:43David Sims?

  Yeah, and, right, it's a movie about the Amish.

• 17:46Griffin Newman?

  No exciting violence.

• 17:47David Sims?

  Oh, is it about how the Amish are super weird? No, it's kind of engaging with them as a community in a mature way.

• 17:53Griffin Newman?

  It is the mildest kind of culture shock comedy.

• 17:55David Sims?

  Right.

• 17:56Griffin Newman?

  In, in how, like.

• 17:57David Sims?

  The gentlest comedy, though, like.

• 18:00Griffin Newman?

  It is underplayed.

• 18:01David Sims?

  Right.

• 18:01Speaker 03

  Yeah. There, I mean, there is one stabbing at the beginning.

• 18:05David Sims?

  There is, yeah.

• 18:06Speaker 03

  Or like throat slashing, I guess.

• 18:07David Sims?

  It's a throat slash, it's, it's pretty tame.

• 18:08Speaker 03

  There's a shootout at the end, like, you know, there's.

• 18:10David Sims?

  Someone drowns in corn.

• 18:11Speaker 03

  Dramatic corn.

• 18:12David Sims?

  If you showed this to a 10-year-old, it would go over their head.

• 18:15Speaker 03

  As, you know, I live with two young men who are, so there's, there's that aspect of it. Maybe I should just show them the barn scene.

• 18:22David Sims?

  Barn raising.

• 18:22Speaker 03

  On YouTube.

• 18:23David Sims?

  They might like it.

• 18:23Speaker 03

  That's a great one.

• 18:24David Sims?

  The barn raising is one of those things where you're like, this is real? Like, you know, when you're a young person, right?

• 18:30Speaker 03

  Even still.

• 18:31David Sims?

  I mean, and I have-

• 18:32Speaker 03

  Well, so also, I grew up, speaking of the eighties, in like the first wave American Girl doll situations.

• 18:39David Sims?

  Of course.

• 18:40Speaker 03

  And so, and so, I had a Kirsten.

• 18:42David Sims?

  Okay.

• 18:43Speaker 03

  And-

• 18:43David Sims?

  And she's from like Minnesota?

• 18:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, she is, she's midwestern, and it's like, but she's like a Scandinavian immigrant.

• 18:50David Sims?

  Swedish girl from eighteen forty-five.

• 18:52Speaker 03

  And, and like, and they came with a set of books, you know, and there was one that was like, how did this person, how is this person, the introductory one, there's like a birthday one, a Christmas one, I'm sure, like a school one, probably.

• 19:06David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 19:07Speaker 03

  And like, and anyway, the, like a party one, I don't know, there was one about a barn raising.

• 19:11David Sims?

  Oh.

• 19:12Speaker 03

  And they like had a barn raising, and then like a party in the barn, and this, so Witness was like really important to me in terms of visually realizing this event that I had only read about in the context-

• 19:26Griffin Newman?

  So the doll predates-

• 19:27Speaker 03

  Of the Ameri- the original six box set-

• 19:32Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 19:32Speaker 03

  Kirsten American Girl Doll series.

• 19:35Griffin Newman?

  Can we talk about how messy the American Girl Doll canon has gotten?

• 19:38Speaker 03

  I can't keep up.

• 19:38Griffin Newman?

  Because it used to be tight, it's now, the normies can't find an entry point.

• 19:42Speaker 03

  Listen-

• 19:42Griffin Newman?

  You gotta do homework just to pick up one doll?

• 19:44David Sims?

  And there's like a two thousands one, what, she likes chumbawumba, like what is this?

• 19:48Speaker 03

  But also, apparently, they just introduced that Samantha, another of the originals.

• 19:53David Sims?

  A classic one.

• 19:54Speaker 03

  And listen, I, you know, the original three, there was, it was a pretty singular demographic-

• 20:00Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 20:00Speaker 03

  You know, which was, you know-

• 20:03David Sims?

  Little white girl?

• 20:04Speaker 03

  White ladies with means.

• 20:05Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 20:05Speaker 03

  So it's, it's good that they expanded the bounds.

• 20:08David Sims?

  Right.

• 20:08Speaker 03

  Um, but, apparently Samantha, one of the originals, now has a great granddaughter, who you can buy, yeah, they're like trying to do-

• 20:17David Sims?

  No, let's not do this.

• 20:18Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't know what she's up to.

• 20:19Griffin Newman?

  But the Samantha doll isn't like eighty now, right, you're like dealing with Samantha-

• 20:23Speaker 03

  Samantha's dead.

• 20:24David Sims?

  Always frozen in time, right?

• 20:25Griffin Newman?

  But that's what I'm saying, the idea of like dealing with two child dolls in different temporalities, it's if it's fucking frequency.

• 20:32Speaker 03

  You know what I'm just, I, this is how diseased my brain is, but just right now, I was thinking about like-

• 20:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 20:37Speaker 03

  The Poshmark?

• 20:40Speaker 03

  Market for American Girl Doll stuff must be like Valhalla. It must be the most incredible thing because I had that catalog. I was just thinking about Samantha's tea set and the little like iced cupcakes or glazes. Or like, maybe it's ice cream because her thing is she makes ice cream, you know?

• 20:59David Sims?

  They make dolls for the dolls. I'm well aware. It's a, it's a. Is your daughter now getting into them? Not yet, but I mean, those are on cold storage. Like those are awaiting her because, you know, my wife, I think, had a couple and then her sister had a couple. This is a family of girls. And they're all just, you know, locked away. My daughter's still, I think, too young to fully engage with them.

• 21:24Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 21:25David Sims?

  And she's obviously also just all the way non Spider-Man and mostly cares about what Green Goblin is up to, not what Kid Ridge was up to.

• 21:32Speaker 03

  That is healthier, you know?

• 21:33David Sims?

  I guess so, but they're coming. Yeah, they're coming and then maybe one day I'll be on Poshmark.

• 21:38Speaker 03

  But the tea set was like little wicker chairs and it had all the accoutrements. It was so beautiful and I'm just like, I, I, their resale market must be amazing. Like I think I feel right now the way that Sean feels when talking about physical media. I'm just like, I can't imagine the possibilities.

• 21:55David Sims?

  My question for you is, do you have yours? Are they in a box? And like now that you had two sons, not to be binary, is it possible, right, that these will not be in use?

• 22:07Speaker 03

  I would absolutely bring it home if they wanted to. My mom, bless her, did her downsizing on her own a couple of years ago and she didn't. First of all, she gave away all my babysitter's clubs like 15 years ago and I had like a full set. I mean, I wasn't like, you know, I wasn't up to date, but it was originals like one through 125, like first edition. Like I was on that shit.

• 22:29David Sims?

  I wonder what happened to my goosebumps.

• 22:30Speaker 03

  And then she didn't check in about the American Girl dolls. So I don't know about that. We do, the boys do have my cabbage patch, Clifton.

• 22:39David Sims?

  Sure.

• 22:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that seemed, because I think my mom thought that was a little more gender neutral. So then you're getting into generationalism, you know?

• 22:47David Sims?

  Then you're dealing with the grandparents' opinions on what dolls should be played with by what children.

• 22:51Griffin Newman?

  Just to clarify, when your mom downsized, did she move into leisure land?

• 22:55David Sims?

  Is that a downsizing reference? Downsizing reference? David, because we're coming up on Halloween, I just have one question. Are you gonna allow your daughter to throw pumpkins? Throw? Oh, because she's Green Goblin? Oh, yeah. Well, but she's like- And I don't say we should light them on fire.

• 23:10Griffin Newman?

  No, but she might be confused. She might be confused if she sees a little pumpkin.

• 23:13David Sims?

  Yeah, there's a lot of little pumpkins around. She loves little pumpkins and every-

• 23:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, you know who else does? Gobby.

• 23:20David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, but she knows that Green Goblin, again, is like a sort of gentle mischief maker. Not a homicidal maniac that he is when he's with Gob. Like, I don't think she's gonna like meeting Willem Dafoe. Like, whenever that day comes for her, when she's like nine years old.

• 23:35Griffin Newman?

  You always think your kid's not gonna like meeting Willem Dafoe, and yet, when you get there, it's just in time.

• 23:40David Sims?

  Like, this to me seems like the only downside of the Spidey and his amazing friends that, like, later, when I'm like, so here's Green Goblin, she's like, that's not my Green Goblin. He is not ruining Mother's Day. Like, he is-

• 23:50Griffin Newman?

  Do you know about this show, Amanda?

• 23:52Speaker 03

  I do.

• 23:53Griffin Newman?

  Are your sons infected with this?

• 23:54Speaker 03

  No, they don't. So what happened, so there, my children go to a Montessori school, so no characters allowed at school.

• 24:00David Sims?

  No char-

• 24:00Speaker 03

  So it's been-

• 24:01David Sims?

  Your kid can't show up with like a Snoopy stuffy or whatever.

• 24:04Speaker 03

  No, no branding. Yeah, yeah, so that has sort of, like, delayed things a little, but he did come home the other day and, or a couple of weeks ago, and he was like, "Dad, I wanna watch Batman."

• 24:15David Sims?

  Sure.

• 24:16Speaker 03

  And my husband instinctively was like, "I don't know what that is." And he's like, "I've never heard of this." And then my three hundred year old son-

• 24:25Griffin Newman?

  Is that protocol for everything, basically?

• 24:26Speaker 03

  Was like, "Dad, it's a beautiful film. I wanna see it." And, and my dad, and Zach was like, "Well, we don't have that here, you know? I guess, like, I, you know, I don't, I don't know, maybe I'll look into it, but we can't watch it right now." And for now, that was acceptable to him. Yeah, but he does also think Tom Cruise is coming to his birthday party, so I don't really know what to-

• 24:45David Sims?

  Like, from, like, he thinks Maverick will show up?

• 24:47Speaker 03

  No, no, no, because now, he's really into, like, parachutes and stuff, so now, I, like-

• 24:54Speaker 03

  Show him Tom, I'd show him the making of featurettes.

• 24:58David Sims?

  Right, yeah.

• 24:59Speaker 03

  But here's the thing, because he's so young and he's, the featurettes are much better because they show Tom Cruise practicing.

• 25:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 25:06Speaker 03

  And then they show like all the safety measures.

• 25:09David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 25:10Speaker 03

  And it is, every time, right before they go to the final stunt, he whispers to me, "I'm gonna like this, right?" And I'm like, "You will, you will like it because he can do it." And you know, I keep saying like, "Look how safe he is, look how they're practicing." But so now, he now understands Tom Cruise as Tom Cruise. And, and he, so he does think he's coming to his birthday party. I don't, I don't know what to do about that.

• 25:33Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 25:33Speaker 03

  But we haven't gotten to Spidey and Friends yet.

• 25:36David Sims?

  They'll, you know, they'll be there for you whenever, whenever you need because they're heroes.

• 25:41Griffin Newman?

  I've thrown this out to Sims. I don't think we've said this on mic, but I'm really curious if there's gonna be a thing 15 years from now where the entire generation who grew up on the show.

• 25:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:50Griffin Newman?

  Cause basically, everyone I know with a kid under eight is like, "My life is infected with Spidey and his amazing friends." If the movies are gonna have to adjust to that canon.

• 26:01Speaker 03

  Right.

• 26:01Griffin Newman?

  In the way that David is joking.

• 26:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 26:04Griffin Newman?

  Right? Where they're like, "Well, my version of Spider-Man is constantly vexed by Green Goblin stealing his lunch."

• 26:11Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 26:12Griffin Newman?

  "And I need to see that in the movies. I've been waiting my entire life to see it in live action."

• 26:18Speaker 03

  I mean, they're tiptoeing that way.

• 26:20Griffin Newman?

  It's all gonna happen.

• 26:21Speaker 03

  I guess it's true. What happens, like, people die in the, in the last one? That's sad.

• 26:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 26:26David Sims?

  Rip.

• 26:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:29David Sims?

  Marisa Tomei blown into a wall or whatever.

• 26:31Speaker 03

  I was really sad about that. And she looked so good, too.

• 26:34Griffin Newman?

  She looked so.

• 26:34David Sims?

  She was, she honestly killed for the crime of hotness. That Aunt May was just too hot.

• 26:39Griffin Newman?

  Well, culture came.

• 26:42Griffin Newman?

  I, look, I will say this, just to connect threads here, right?

• 26:45David Sims?

  Yeah, Instagram threads, yeah.

• 26:47Griffin Newman?

  Ben Hossley and I, producer Ben.

• 26:49David Sims?

  What's up?

• 26:49Griffin Newman?

  We're on Daily Zeitgeist Podcast.

• 26:51David Sims?

  Yeah. Is that an LA or a New York podcast?

• 26:54Griffin Newman?

  LA podcast.

• 26:55David Sims?

  Okay, okay.

• 26:55Griffin Newman?

  And Jack asked us, he was sort of speed rounding like movie conversation talking points that he was like, "I listen to your show and I want to have these discussions with you guys." And he was like, the whole thing of like, movies becoming sexless, right?

• 27:07David Sims?

  Sure.

• 27:07Griffin Newman?

  And like, what is perpetuating this? Is this a younger generation that is skittish about it? Is it about the studios? Is it about movies translating overseas or whatever? We litigated this whole thing, right?

• 27:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:17Griffin Newman?

  But the thing I really locked into was, I think what is less discussed isn't like, "In the eighties, Michael Douglas used to fuck everyone against a wall and now there's no sex in anything." What I feel like is under discussed is the witness thing of like, "Every movie used to just have this level of sexual tension in it."

• 27:37Speaker 03

  Oh, I thought you were gonna say every movie used to have just like, one pair of tits. And it like, wasn't a big deal.

• 27:44Griffin Newman?

  Right. I think that was part of it.

• 27:45David Sims?

  I do think that is a little, I mean, look, films still have nudity.

• 27:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 27:49Speaker 03

  But like, not in the, but it's, if they do, it's like a, "Ooh, like come see so and so's, you know, and come see someone's dick now because the men will also be full frontal."

• 28:01David Sims?

  There are many more dicks.

• 28:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:03David Sims?

  I can't deny that. It's more common to see a dick.

• 28:05Speaker 03

  But this is sort of just like a European, like, "Oh, okay, well, like, there they are."

• 28:10Griffin Newman?

  I think there were some of that.

• 28:11Speaker 03

  It's the human body.

• 28:12Griffin Newman?

  Look, there were also many movies in the eighties and nineties that were built entirely on, "Look at how many tits you're gonna see," and they were not presented in a European way. But I do, I kept while watching this movie again last night, thinking about the Marvel like, "Everyone is beautiful and nobody fucks" thing. Where you're like, "This is the exact inverse of that." In that like, here you have, I feel like you've said it many times, I'm inclined to agree, Harrison Ford, the best he has ever looked on screen.

• 28:37David Sims?

  It's this and working girl, right?

• 28:39Speaker 03

  It's this and working girl.

• 28:40David Sims?

  Which are back to back.

• 28:41Speaker 03

  They are, so this is like, his ideal phase of life, yes.

• 28:46David Sims?

  I would agree. I mean, how old would he have been? He would have been like, since 40. He's like 43, 42, 43.

• 28:51Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 28:53David Sims?

  That's fine.

• 28:54Griffin Newman?

  All power to him. Uh, but this, I feel like even more so than Working Girl, cause Working Girl has the like, uh, movie sheen on it.

• 29:03Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 29:04Griffin Newman?

  Like, for how much he is genetically blessed.

• 29:07Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 29:07Griffin Newman?

  And was taking great care of himself, Harrison Ford does look like a real person in this movie.

• 29:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:13David Sims?

  Hundred percent.

• 29:13Griffin Newman?

  It is that amazing thing where you can see someone who has like movie star fucking like, you know.

• 29:19Speaker 03

  Right.

• 29:19Griffin Newman?

  Glow, and yet, the movie doesn't make them like perfectly groomed and hairless.

• 29:25David Sims?

  Yeah, but let me, let me.

• 29:26Griffin Newman?

  And poreless, what?

• 29:28David Sims?

  I gotta stop you here. It's not just what you're talking about. This is the first time he plays a guy in today.

• 29:35Speaker 03

  In the, in the world.

• 29:36David Sims?

  In a movie. Basically, I mean excluding, you know.

• 29:39Griffin Newman?

  As a leading man, as a leading man.

• 29:40David Sims?

  Little movies that he did early on, but like, since he has become a star.

• 29:44Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 29:44David Sims?

  And done like, you know, the run of like Star Wars, Apocalypse Now briefly, obviously, Frisco Kid, Emperor Strikes Back, Raiders, Blade Runner.

• 29:52Griffin Newman?

  Conversation briefly is present today.

• 29:54David Sims?

  Yeah, but that's, that's, you know.

• 29:55Griffin Newman?

  I know, I'm just saying.

• 29:56David Sims?

  But like, no, I'm saying like, this is like Harrison Ford is in our world.

• 30:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 30:00David Sims?

  Right?

• 30:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 30:01David Sims?

  Working Girl is 88. I forgot. I always think it's 86. So it's, that's a little later.

• 30:04Griffin Newman?

  This is 84?

• 30:05David Sims?

  It's 85.

• 30:06Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 30:07David Sims?

  85.

• 30:07Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 30:07David Sims?

  But like, this is the first time that we have seen him wearing regular clothes.

• 30:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 30:11David Sims?

  Yeah. Drinking a cup of.

• 30:12Speaker 03

  Well, sort of.

• 30:13David Sims?

  Hot joe.

• 30:14Griffin Newman?

  Hot joe.

• 30:14David Sims?

  Well, he does, of course, then go plain.

• 30:16Speaker 03

  Right.

• 30:16Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 30:17David Sims?

  He goes plain mode.

• 30:18Griffin Newman?

  Plain mode.

• 30:18Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 30:20Griffin Newman?

  Plain on main.

• 30:20David Sims?

  The cut of those pants is very contemporary though, in a funny way.

• 30:24Speaker 03

  It is true. It is very late millennial. Except he is wearing socks, but yes, the, the high cut and then obviously the crop.

• 30:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 30:32Speaker 03

  You know, showing some ankle.

• 30:33Griffin Newman?

  I was just watching all the, the special features on, not to tempt you, Matt, but this lovely, premium witness.

• 30:40Speaker 03

  I know. Tracy Letts gave out two copies and neither was to me. I, I texted him after the.

• 30:46David Sims?

  I mean, you weren't even present for that virginity convention that happened with.

• 30:49Griffin Newman?

  I'm just saying, this is a good object. This doesn't look like a GameStop. This is a good object.

• 30:54Speaker 03

  It, I mean, that's true.

• 30:55Griffin Newman?

  You hear the knock of this? Not plastic.

• 30:57Speaker 03

  So, one thing, as you're sitting there, and I'm in the same room with you, as you knock on it.

• 31:02Griffin Newman?

  A lot of things on my desk.

• 31:02Speaker 03

  There is, like, we've gotten the plastic, that's not plastic. And you guys talk a lot about steel books.

• 31:09David Sims?

  You got the metal ones, right?

• 31:11Speaker 03

  But the symmetry of it, it still just is a box, you know? And it's just like, there are like rows of boxes, you know? And it all just kinda looks like boxes. So that's another thing that you guys should work on.

• 31:23Griffin Newman?

  You want a different form factor.

• 31:24Speaker 03

  That's, that's my feedback.

• 31:26Griffin Newman?

  I know this is Sean's case, but when you have something like this, Sean's argument, I should say, rather, for this type of case.

• 31:32Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 31:33Griffin Newman?

  It's like a hardback slip, right? Hardbox slip? Is that, then it starts to look more like a book. But for you, you're not buying that.

• 31:41David Sims?

  John Book.

• 31:41Speaker 03

  But, but they're still all, like, it's, it's the aesthetics of when they're lined up.

• 31:47Griffin Newman?

  Interesting.

• 31:48Speaker 03

  And they're all, like, flat, and the edges are rounded, and they just, you know?

• 31:53Griffin Newman?

  You dislike that.

• 31:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't, I think that you need more texture. You need more variety for it to look, it starts to look a little, it looks flat.

• 32:05David Sims?

  I agree, and where's the steel?

• 32:08Speaker 03

  I, true, I also, I mean, I keep hearing about the steel books, don't know if I've ever seen one, IRL.

• 32:12David Sims?

  I see no shine, I see no texture, I see no metal.

• 32:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. But it's like, think about a bookcase where, you know, okay, oh, we're holding a steelbook. Okay, now I'm holding a steelbook, oh, it's a Master and Commander steelbook. Okay, so.

• 32:30David Sims?

  But what if it was wearing a hat?

• 32:32Speaker 03

  Ben, I would agree with you that, first of all, I don't know how to open this, but.

• 32:36Griffin Newman?

  It's a little tug there, yeah, it might be a little tight, in that center.

• 32:39Speaker 03

  This isn't like the steel that built the American railroads, you know? Um, it's, it's a steel wrapping.

• 32:45Griffin Newman?

  When you open it up, it's plastic guts, but it's a steel wrapping.

• 32:48David Sims?

  You can't drive a train down them discs, it's true.

• 32:52Griffin Newman?

  Well, I just, I think if it was a American railroad steel, everyone's shelves would be collapsing all the time.

• 32:57Speaker 03

  But like, think about a bookcase that looks good to you.

• 33:02Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 33:03Speaker 03

  You know?

• 33:04Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 33:04Speaker 03

  It is. Almost never all of the same size, binding, color, all like all in a row. Like the sets look weird and you can tell when someone does not have a book collection and they have a large bookcase and they buy one of like the old gaudy sets and you're just like, oh, that looks kind of like fake and unused.

• 33:23Griffin Newman?

  I love that we're having this conversation.

• 33:25Speaker 03

  There's like a symmetry to what's going on with the display of physical medias that I find aesthetically offensive.

• 33:31Griffin Newman?

  Now, let me say this, Amanda.

• 33:32Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 33:34Griffin Newman?

  Your podcast co-host, Sean Fennessey.

• 33:35Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 33:36Griffin Newman?

  The king of the symmetrical stack, right?

• 33:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:39Griffin Newman?

  The photos are, everything has to be lined up perfectly, right?

• 33:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:42Griffin Newman?

  Not on his shelves, but when he's posting like doing my Spike Lee research.

• 33:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 33:46Griffin Newman?

  Perfect stacks.

• 33:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:48Griffin Newman?

  A lot of physical media collectors like ourselves want the perfect symmetry on the shelf. They want everything the same. And in fact, it will drive them crazy if a movie is released in a different form factor that's not going to line up.

• 34:00Speaker 03

  I, I, I do know that.

• 34:02Griffin Newman?

  I don't feel this way. I'm with you where I like, I wouldn't say a messy shelf, but I like the variety. I like the idea of like peaks and valleys and different shapes and, and like Criterion will do this sometimes where they'll be like, we tried something different with the packaging and people, people go ballistic. They put out Trainspotting in a, like a package that they were like, this is a reference to 90s, like British promotional CDs and it was thinner and taller.

• 34:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:30Griffin Newman?

  And people lost their fucking minds. And I'm like, good, give it to me. Make it all look different.

• 34:37Speaker 03

  But I, I do think that some of it, it just, people have different tastes and people have different aesthetics and Sean is.

• 34:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 34:44Speaker 03

  Bless him, a neat freak and a quote unquote minimalist and his house is, is clean lines.

• 34:52David Sims?

  I was about to say, right.

• 34:53Speaker 03

  And he doesn't like things out and I live in a sea of books and if I could have 18 different prints and patterns in one room, you know, like.

• 35:04Griffin Newman?

  This is how I live my life. Embrace the chaos.

• 35:06Speaker 03

  I would like the Marie Antoinette, um, set designer to come to my house next, you know? So. So it's, it is, it is purely at some point like, like I prefer this color to this color.

• 35:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 35:18Speaker 03

  Like, I prefer this look to this look.

• 35:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 35:20Speaker 03

  But it's the, I, I find the symmetry unnerving.

• 35:24Griffin Newman?

  I, I don't disagree with you.

• 35:26Speaker 03

  It freaks me out.

• 35:27Griffin Newman?

  Look at this big chunky picnic at Hanging Rock. Look at this. No plastic here. You know what I'm saying?

• 35:32David Sims?

  We're gonna open the doss.

• 35:33Griffin Newman?

  I got the fucking, I got the novel in here. The book is in the set.

• 35:36Speaker 03

  I'm sorry, I, I am here as a chaos monster. I'm not helping you, you know?

• 35:40David Sims?

  Oh, it's fine. Be a chaos monster, please.

• 35:42Speaker 03

  I didn't even bring my laptop.

• 35:44David Sims?

  Guess we have sometimes.

• 35:45Speaker 03

  I know, but I just.

• 35:46David Sims?

  You're no monster.

• 35:47Speaker 03

  You know, Sean usually keeps me, like, I, I try sometimes to stay on the tracks, but here I'm just like, let's talk about.

• 35:54Griffin Newman?

  We're pulling the rip.

• 35:55Speaker 03

  Let's talk about steel bucks.

• 35:57David Sims?

  That's why we like to be in person.

• 35:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:09Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 36:09David Sims?

  Yes?

• 36:10Griffin Newman?

  Mmm.

• 36:13David Sims?

  Is that the C S cow?

• 36:14Griffin Newman?

  C S cow is back.

• 36:15David Sims?

  Haven't heard from her in a while.

• 36:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, she's reactivated because she's horny for chicken fingers.

• 36:22David Sims?

  Okay.

• 36:22Griffin Newman?

  And she's excited for the streaming debut of Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma.

• 36:27David Sims?

  Wow.

• 36:27Griffin Newman?

  The cow likes chicken.

• 36:30David Sims?

  Remember cow and chicken? Let's look it up. While, while you, while you tell the, the great listeners about the great stuff on movie.

• 36:36Griffin Newman?

  Well, movie is a global film company bringing great cinema to the world and to you. Curating and elevating visionary filmmaking, all handpicked, always. That's what movie does. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma.

• 36:48David Sims?

  Yes.

• 36:48Griffin Newman?

  One of my favorite movies of the year.

• 36:49David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 36:50Griffin Newman?

  You can feel the rush now at home. There's a hole at the bottom of the lake where the movies come from.

• 36:56David Sims?

  That is a line in the movie.

• 36:57Griffin Newman?

  In the new movie from Jane Schomburg, Past and Future Guest.

• 37:00David Sims?

  Past and Future Guest, a great filmmaker, a great podcast guest.

• 37:04Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 37:04David Sims?

  Great friend.

• 37:05Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 37:06David Sims?

  This movie rocks. It's got, of course, it stars Hannah Einbinder and Gillian Anderson.

• 37:11Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 37:12David Sims?

  Legends, and I tip my cap, but Zach Cherry.

• 37:14Griffin Newman?

  Performances, friend of the show.

• 37:15David Sims?

  Friend of the show, Zach Cherry.

• 37:17Griffin Newman?

  Zach Cherry.

• 37:17David Sims?

  Also in it.

• 37:18Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 37:19David Sims?

  Such a cool movie. One of the queer Paul McCann. If you haven't heard about this movie, I don't know what's going on with you, but like, it obviously has, it was out in theaters this summer and now it's on movie.

• 37:30Griffin Newman?

  Hannah Einbinder plays a filmmaker attempting to reboot the Camp Me Asma franchise, trying to track down the original final girl from the first movie to, to make some sort of legacy sequel, who's played by Gillian Anderson, who lives at the summer camp.

• 37:44David Sims?

  Yes. And you know, and then they hang out and it's regular.

• 37:48Griffin Newman?

  What happens? It's, it's one of those Hollywood's out of ideas. No, it's very much a movie about Hollywood being out of ideas while being an example of there still being new stories to tell.

• 38:00David Sims?

  It's now streaming exclusively on movie and you can try movie free for 30 days at movie.com slash blank check. That's M U B I dot com slash blank check for a whole month of great cinema for free.

• 38:12Griffin Newman?

  They got so many great movies on there to watch, but worth it for 30 days for Me Asma.

• 38:18David Sims?

  Damn right.

• 38:23Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 38:24David Sims?

  Yes.

• 38:25Griffin Newman?

  Shop.com is giving away $1 million in shop cash.

• 38:29David Sims?

  Wow. Shop has all the stores you love and lets you track every order in one spot.

• 38:34Griffin Newman?

  I love that. It's very convenient.

• 38:35David Sims?

  And now 1,000 shoppers are each going to win $1,000 in shop cash, just in time for the holidays.

• 38:43Griffin Newman?

  You get gifts for everyone on your list or get yourself something a little merry and bright. Find exactly what you're looking for at shop.com.

• 38:51David Sims?

  Uh, got stocking stuffers, maybe the sickest luxury items. Cookware to kicks, toys to high tech, even tinsel and tree toppers. Type in what you're looking for to instantly search every shop at once. Okay? That's shop.com. You can just go click around, find brands you love, search across all the stores, track every order in one spot.

• 39:15Griffin Newman?

  From cult favorites to the world's biggest brands, score suite deals and checkout fast, all at shop.com. Enter to win the $1 million shop cash giveaway from now until November 1st. Just go to shop.com. There are so many ways to win. That's shop.com. Shopping designed around you. No purchase necessary. Restrictions apply. Official rules available at shop.com.

• 39:46Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 39:46David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 39:47Griffin Newman?

  It's not cuffing season for me, it's hosi season for me. And this year, that meant finally upgrading my new mattress from Lisa.

• 39:55David Sims?

  Lisa!

• 39:56Griffin Newman?

  It's supportive, comfortable, and just what my body needs after a long day. It makes crawling into bed on a chilly fall night feel like luxury.

• 40:03David Sims?

  Yeah, I have a Lisa too. Uh, they've got a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep.

• 40:09Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:10David Sims?

  Each mattress is designed with specific sleep positions and field preferences in mind. They've got eco-friendly materials.

• 40:16Griffin Newman?

  Maybe you hear eco-friendly and you go, oh, but I'm gonna sacrifice comfort.

• 40:20David Sims?

  No.

• 40:20Griffin Newman?

  Nope.

• 40:21David Sims?

  They've been awarded best hybrid and best memory foam mattresses by New York Times' Wirecutter. They're featured by West Elm as their go-to mattress partner. And they work with local nonprofits across the US to donate thousands of mattresses each year to families in needs. Over 43,000 mattresses donated to date. Go to lisa.com for up to 30% off mattresses. Plus, get an extra $50 off with promo code BLANKCHECK. Exclusive for our listeners. That's L-E-E-S-A.com promo code BLANKCHECK for up to 30% off mattresses plus an extra $50 off. Let them know we sent you in the survey after checkout. Lisa.com promo code BLANKCHECK.

• 41:10David Sims?

  I want to tell you guys something you might not know. Peter Weir's from Australia. Really? Did you guys know that?

• 41:15Griffin Newman?

  What?

• 41:16David Sims?

  Uh, Peter Weir, grew up in Australia.

• 41:18Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:19David Sims?

  Is Australian.

• 41:20Griffin Newman?

  Mm.

• 41:20David Sims?

  Made many Australian films.

• 41:22Griffin Newman?

  The hat trick.

• 41:23David Sims?

  But he did like American movies and was kind of raised on them. How can you not, right? Hollywood, it's all over the world.

• 41:30Griffin Newman?

  Hollywood, sure.

• 41:31David Sims?

  And so, uh, uh, pretty quickly in his career, uh, he, he says around when he made The Last Wave, which is his third film.

• 41:40Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:40David Sims?

  He starts kind of getting an eye on, he's like, you know, this town is big enough. Like, uh, you know, he's starting to get a little sick of the sort of scale of Australian projects, right? The extent to which.

• 41:50Griffin Newman?

  I also think, especially in the eighties, it's not the start of, but there's a real surge in, if someone makes an interesting film in a foreign country that crosses over a little bit, time to bring them over to Hollywood and slot them into the machine, you know? I think there's a little bit less of everyone works in their own country and more of eventually we're getting you over here.

• 42:09David Sims?

  Um. The Thornbirds, the nineteen, what is it, like nineteen eighty film, The Thornbirds? You guys know this film?

• 42:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:18David Sims?

  Based on a, uh, I don't know, we don't, no, it was, it was just the whole thing.

• 42:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 42:23David Sims?

  But based on the Australian novel by Colleen McCullough.

• 42:26Griffin Newman?

  Cause that was Richard Chamberlain as well?

• 42:28David Sims?

  Uh, well, it's being set up initially as a film that was gonna be directed by Herbert Ross.

• 42:32Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 42:33David Sims?

  And, uh, star Robert Redford, rest in peace.

• 42:36Griffin Newman?

  Hmm.

• 42:36David Sims?

  Um, and, uh, he, Herbert Ross was, I think, you know, getting old. And so he was being pushed aside and they were like, maybe you can do this and you're Australian. You know, right? You'll, you'll get, it's set in the outback, like you'll get it. And he circled it, but wasn't that interested, so he backed off.

• 42:55Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:55David Sims?

  And eventually that got shunted to mini-series as rising, you know, nineteen, nineteen eighty-three is when it came out.

• 43:01Griffin Newman?

  With his recent leading man.

• 43:02David Sims?

  Right.

• 43:03Griffin Newman?

  From the last wave, yeah.

• 43:04David Sims?

  And instead he, Weir does two more Australian films. He does Gallipoli.

• 43:08Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:08David Sims?

  And he does Year of Living Dangerously, which is an Australian production, but MGM has a little bit of money in it. And so it's sort of like half a step into Hollywood.

• 43:16Speaker 03

  It's the bridge, yeah.

• 43:17David Sims?

  And Mel Gibson is like, not quite a Hollywood star yet, but is about to be, right?

• 43:20Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say.

• 43:21David Sims?

  It's like, it's all inching.

• 43:22Griffin Newman?

  It is interesting that Mel Gibson kind of functions as that turnkey for both George Miller and Peter Weir. Where they had worked with him before and he was crossing over and it was like, if you can get Mel again, you, you get to make a movie that's like half Hollywood.

• 43:36Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:37David Sims?

  Um, now, moving on from him for a second, back to Witness.

• 43:41Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:42David Sims?

  Uh, this was originally called Called Home, which is what the Amish refer to dying as being called home.

• 43:48Griffin Newman?

  Sure. It's a good title when you have that explained to you. On its face, it is quite a bad title.

• 43:53David Sims?

  It's not a great title. Uh, romance novelist Pamela Wallace and her husband Earl W. Wallace, who is a guy who worked on the TV show Gunsmoke for a long time, uh, had rented a home in Amish country. They'd kind of gotten interested in the Amish. And, uh, they start working on a screenplay that would be about an Amish woman falling for a big city guy. Okay? Makes sense. Uh, they, Earl Wallace brings in a guy called William Kelly, who also worked on Gunsmoke.

• 44:21Griffin Newman?

  That movie was gonna be called Not Working Girl. I was trying to see if I could draft a better wording of it in my head and I just gave up and...

• 44:27David Sims?

  You know, yeah.

• 44:28Griffin Newman?

  Knocked it out there.

• 44:29David Sims?

  Um... That guy had worked on like westerns and stuff, How the West Was Won, he has a credit on. This screenplay ends up in the hands of a producer called Edward Feldman in 1983. It's like 180 pages, it's very heavy on like Amish life, right? It's very invested in all of that. But they're nonetheless interested.

• 44:51Griffin Newman?

  Well, he's interested.

• 44:52David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, he options it.

• 44:54Griffin Newman?

  He has a first look deal at Fox at the time.

• 44:56David Sims?

  And the head of Fox at the time, Joe Weisand, takes a look at it and says, "We don't do rural movies." Which is quite a line.

• 45:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 45:04David Sims?

  You're always hearing about execs saying things like that.

• 45:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 45:06David Sims?

  "We don't do rural..." What does that mean? What, "We can't leave the city, like, ever?" Like, what are you talking about?

• 45:12Griffin Newman?

  I mean, as he puts it, he read the script, he was like, "This concept is great, it's really overwritten." And he makes a deal with them where he's gonna pay the writers $25,000 to have a one-year option and get a rewrite out of them.

• 45:25David Sims?

  Uh, right.

• 45:26Griffin Newman?

  And that he doesn't have to pay them the remaining $225,000 unless it actually gets greenlit. And so he runs downstairs and he's like, "I'm excited, I just made a great deal. Look at how great of a dealmaker I ma- am." And they were like, "What the fuck is this rural trash?"

• 45:45David Sims?

  So they do the rewrite, he brings it back to Fox, he gets the same answer, "We don't do rural pictures." He sends the script to Harrison Ford's agent on a Thursday, by Monday Ford was on board.

• 45:57Griffin Newman?

  And he was like, "Rural picture, huh?" And they're like, "Yeah, no, we still feel this way about it." Put it in Turner out!

• 46:02David Sims?

  But he takes it rural picture with Harrison Ford?

• 46:05Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 46:05David Sims?

  And they still don't wanna do it? No, but it's crazy!

• 46:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 46:09David Sims?

  Takes it to Warner Brothers, Warner Brothers is like, "Harrison Ford is too expensive." Takes it to MGM who says Harrison Ford can't act. Which I guess is what I'm trying to say about, like, it's like, I guess he'd only been in these genre films and maybe there's still some impression of like, "Oh, he just does these big budget distractions, like they're, you know, he doesn't play a real guy."

• 46:28Speaker 03

  Right, and he has like a one-liner and, you know, then jumps over something.

• 46:32Griffin Newman?

  This is his lone Oscar nomination as an actor, it's so much of this movie's legacy. And I think he's phenomenal in this, but it's also like, not his best performance, and you, in my opinion...

• 46:44David Sims?

  Might be.

• 46:45Griffin Newman?

  I do think.

• 46:45David Sims?

  It might be his best performance.

• 46:47Griffin Newman?

  You, you step back and you're like, that nomination more than anything was Hollywood going like, okay, we admit. You know what you're doing.

• 46:54David Sims?

  It's definitely Hollywood doing that, um, but I, I think it's, it's arguably his best performance.

• 47:02Griffin Newman?

  It remains rude that this is his only nomination. And I was also just going through the math of like, he has been in eight best picture nominees, I think.

• 47:09Speaker 03

  Right. He also, you know, the Oscars and Hollywood in general don't tend to valorize the kind of movie star acting that he does so well.

• 47:18David Sims?

  He's not a transformer.

• 47:19Speaker 03

  In Indiana Jones and in Star, in Star Wars and like even in The Fugitive.

• 47:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 47:25Speaker 03

  Where, um, though they, they gave Tommy Lee an Oscar for that and they wouldn't even, and he was not even nominated, which is insane.

• 47:31Griffin Newman?

  It's stuff like that. That's a little bizarre where you're like, oh, they're like four, three acting nominations for Working Girl and he gets snubbed, like things like that.

• 47:38David Sims?

  The fugitive snub is tough.

• 47:40Speaker 03

  They've just, they're, they're snotty about box office. They still are snotty about box office. So, you know, the Oscars in particular.

• 47:41David Sims?

  It's a really crazy year.

• 47:46Speaker 03

  So I think this is his like quote unquote best capital A acting performance. And I, you know, I guess he does like jump over stuff, but it like, you know, like a couple of times.

• 48:00David Sims?

  A couple of times.

• 48:02Speaker 03

  Or like, or you know, like dives into some corn or whatever.

• 48:05Griffin Newman?

  The way he always self deprecatingly refers to it is, I'm good at falling down.

• 48:09Speaker 03

  Right. But it's like, it's, it's not the full Harrison Ford experience.

• 48:14Griffin Newman?

  No, no, it's not. It's a very important bridge film in that sense, but that's what he was looking for. You know, I mean.

• 48:20David Sims?

  Yes, to carry on. Yes, you're right. He is looking for that. He apparently does not want to work for Universal. They had replaced him with Mel Gibson on a project that JJ guesses was maybe the film, The River. So he's pissed off at Universal, but Paramount is interested.

• 48:35Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 48:35David Sims?

  The only one of the guys left. Uh, and.

• 48:38Griffin Newman?

  Also was in the middle of making a ton of money off Indiana Jones for him. This is, he's basically signing on to this movie as Temple of Doom is filming, I believe.

• 48:50David Sims?

  Sure. Yes, exactly. Uh.

• 48:53David Sims?

  Year of Living Dangerously is just coming out and Feldman, the producer, goes to see that and is like, I want that guy, Peter Weir. But Peter Weir is prepping The Mosquito Coast, which is at Warner Brothers, and of course, will come out after Witness eventually. Uh, Jack Nicholson is attached to that.

• 49:09Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 49:09David Sims?

  Uh, and so while they are, you know, like, they're like, okay, they cycle through some other directors. Peter Yates, but it doesn't happen. Arthur Penn, Paramount's not interested. John Badham says no. These are all guys at the time.

• 49:23Griffin Newman?

  Um, the woman who directed, uh, Testament.

• 49:26David Sims?

  Okay.

• 49:28Griffin Newman?

  Do you know that movie, which I've never seen, which is like a post-apocalyptic movie with, um, uh, Lynn, Lynn Littman? The Jane Alexander film.

• 49:36David Sims?

  Okay.

• 49:37Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:37Griffin Newman?

  I know she was attached at one point because that movie is Lucas Haas's debut and she's the one who recommended Lucas Haas.

• 49:43David Sims?

  Oh, interesting.

• 49:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, that a lot of people from Testament end up working on this film.

• 49:48Speaker 03

  Ah.

• 49:48Griffin Newman?

  Because she had brought them on.

• 49:49David Sims?

  Interesting.

• 49:50Griffin Newman?

  But yes, they're cycling through many, many directors.

• 49:52David Sims?

  But then what happens? Mosquito Coast falls apart.

• 49:55Griffin Newman?

  He's like overseas scouting.

• 49:57David Sims?

  Yes.

• 49:57Griffin Newman?

  And he said it was the first time that it happened where it was like, he thought he was gonna be filming in two months and the movie completely falls apart.

• 50:03David Sims?

  And Weir is no interest in this movie in particular, but is like, I think I just need a job and I think maybe I need to do something I'm not obsessed with. Cause he was kind of obsessed with Mosquito Coast.

• 50:12Griffin Newman?

  Well, it goes back to the Hollywood thing, right? That he was a guy who was attracted to the idea of a Hollywood career, not in terms of just like, can I buy a beach house? But that he goes to his rep and says like, I think I wanna be an assignment filmmaker. I wanna try the old Hollywood thing. Find me a picture that is greenlit.

• 50:28David Sims?

  Right, exactly. What's a basically a go picture with a script that seems solid?

• 50:32Griffin Newman?

  And it wasn't just that he wanted to be filming something, it was also that he was like, I kinda like the challenge of seeing. What's a thing with all the pieces put together and what can I bring to it? And he brings him three scripts and Witness is the one he likes.

• 50:44Speaker 03

  I.

• 50:45David Sims?

  The last twist.

• 50:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:46David Sims?

  Is that Redford suddenly is like, I want to do Witness. This looks good.

• 50:50Griffin Newman?

  Makes sense.

• 50:51David Sims?

  It does make sense. And he probably be good.

• 50:55Speaker 03

  Does he, he wants to star?

• 50:56David Sims?

  Star.

• 50:57Speaker 03

  Okay, he doesn't want to direct.

• 50:58David Sims?

  Um, but because Weir has come aboard partly, I think. I think there's just heat around Weir too.

• 51:03Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 51:04David Sims?

  You know, you're flipping dangerously is this thing. Uh, and he kind tries to muscle in and Feldman is like, no, we're committed to Ford.

• 51:14Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 51:15David Sims?

  We are ready to go. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, I'm not fucking with this again. Uh, it's tempting, like, but it could be a disaster. The thing with Redford also is he's a big control freak. He's gonna, you know, take over in ways that maybe you don't anticipate. So, like you're saying, Weir, Weir kind of likes it's like, this is studio filmmaking. Yes, this has some cliches in it. Yes, I don't really know anything about Amish country, but like, I'm just gonna do my best job.

• 51:42Griffin Newman?

  But it's also him kind of coveting that era of filmmaking, you know? And what good came out of it of just being like, if I really had my bones as a director, couldn't I be someone who can slot into something like this and find a way to make it personal? And basically his process at that point is just like, cut 60 pages out of the script.

• 52:01David Sims?

  Well, it's more, it's the, and it's the same thing. We talk about this on the Dead Poets Society episode. I think it comes up over and over again. He's like, let's pull out some of the violence. It's too much. Let's make the love story less overt, rather than like a full romance.

• 52:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 52:15Speaker 03

  Right. Suggested rather than shown.

• 52:18David Sims?

  He has the guts to not lean too hard on these like very dramatic elements. To be like, no, we don't need it. We don't need it. And apparently the producers are freaking out because they're like, that's the like juicy stuff. Are you sure?

• 52:29Griffin Newman?

  Big like, don't use music unless you need to. If you can convey it in a look, take all the dialogue out guy.

• 52:35David Sims?

  Cause Dead Poets Society, to spoil, originally ended with, uh, Robin Williams dying of cancer.

• 52:40Speaker 03

  Right.

• 52:40David Sims?

  And Weir is like, fuck off. Right, exactly.

• 52:44Griffin Newman?

  Is it, this doesn't need a different morbid twist.

• 52:46Speaker 03

  Right, right, right. This doesn't actually have to be a soap opera.

• 52:49Griffin Newman?

  But you read that the, this original script had them having a full sex scene that plays out on camera, that the line that I butchered in the opening was like a multi-page conversation. And there was similarly a multi-page monologue at the end of the film saying goodbye. You know, and he's just like, none of that is necessary. He also directly invoked in some of the interviews I was finding that like, he was obsessed with the Hays Code era. That you have early Hollywood that's super fucking horny. Then the Hays Code comes in and all these movies are restricted, but they're overflowing with sexual tension.

• 53:26Speaker 03

  Right.

• 53:26Griffin Newman?

  And he was like, I found those films more sexually charged when there was a thing that couldn't be said. And the movie's boxed in and has to find another way to express it. And when you're dealing with a culture that is like repressed and plain, it's a very good match. And he was just like, I think the most erotic version of this movie, if the motor at the center is their tension, is the one in which they're not saying the thing.

• 53:49Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, it's like,

• 53:52Speaker 03

  it's showing, not telling. It's restraint as, you know, additive. It's like, it is not an instinct that we have really in any type of culture right now, but certainly not in filmmaking. You know, I mean, people fucking lost their minds when they didn't kiss at the end of Twisters.

• 54:08Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 54:09David Sims?

  I didn't think, well, I mean, I'm very on the record for what should have happened in Twisters.

• 54:13Speaker 03

  Tell us.

• 54:13David Sims?

  He should have fucked Maureen Tierney.

• 54:15Speaker 03

  Uh, sure. Yeah. I mean, all same. I like cheered when she showed up.

• 54:19Griffin Newman?

  But also.

• 54:19David Sims?

  That's the mom. Yeah.

• 54:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:21Griffin Newman?

  Don't haven't, don't we kind of believe that maybe he did?

• 54:24David Sims?

  Yeah, well, the, or.

• 54:24Griffin Newman?

  There's a reading on the film.

• 54:26David Sims?

  It's slightly more textual.

• 54:27Griffin Newman?

  Cause why was he already at the bar?

• 54:28David Sims?

  Exactly. Where she's like, I kind of have a crush on this guy. Maureen Tierney's like, you should. And I would know.

• 54:33Griffin Newman?

  Comes in with a towel around his.

• 54:35David Sims?

  Right, exactly.

• 54:36Speaker 03

  But like everything has to.

• 54:38David Sims?

  I have.

• 54:38Speaker 03

  Poof, forgotten. I'm same.

• 54:40Griffin Newman?

  Pleasant time.

• 54:41David Sims?

  Yeah, sure.

• 54:42Speaker 03

  But everything has to be spoon fed to people now.

• 54:45Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 54:45Speaker 03

  You know, like it's, and, and audiences are angry if it's not explicitly spoon fed to them. If the, if the film's thesis is not like said aloud.

• 54:57Griffin Newman?

  I, I will also say, I, yes, yes, a big bugbear of mine. Also say, my problem with Twisters is that I'm like, them not kissing at the end feels like a reference to movies not doing that, rather than a thing the movie itself has earned. It feels like someone's like, you know, it'd be cool as if they didn't kiss. Cause remember, and then cited six movies where that happened. Rather than the movie being constructed around in a way that witnesses where you're just like, there's an hour and a half before Kelly McGillis and Harrison Ford kiss where you are exploding, where you're so aware of the fact that the movie is consciously avoiding that.

• 55:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I don't mean to imply that whatever's going on in Twisters is any way on the level of what's going on between Harrison Ford and yeah, like Kelly Riley, like it's not, I just, that was a recent example of people being mad on.

• 55:45Griffin Newman?

  Totally, totally. But that's if you want to get away with doing this kind of thing, you have to do it intentionally.

• 55:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:50Griffin Newman?

  And it's like Peter Weir isn't just doing like, I don't care, get it out of here. Like, he's very deliberate in what he's pulling and what he's replacing it with, right? It show don't tell, you have to be smart about the show.

• 56:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, you have to land the show, right? But, but I think this does.

• 56:08David Sims?

  To this point, Harrison Ford says what he liked about the script is it was more or less a literate script for adults. I saw a movie in it, it felt like a movie, it had something to say, it has a moral point of view. Like, he's smart. I mean, Harrison Ford is smart.

• 56:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:24David Sims?

  I'm sure he felt the exact same way about Random Hearts. It's just funny, the kind, like, he makes witnessy movies over and over again, and sometimes it works and sometimes it's like eh.

• 56:32Griffin Newman?

  This successfully creates another silo of his movie star persona, which is,

• 56:37Speaker 03

  Right.

• 56:37Griffin Newman?

  you can have a Harrison Ford movie that is me in a pretty nice suit, being a grown up with an adult leading lady.

• 56:44David Sims?

  Not usually too over the top.

• 56:46Griffin Newman?

  Most of them were handsome.

• 56:47David Sims?

  Presumed Innocent and Frantic have a little more of the lurid quality.

• 56:51Griffin Newman?

  But he did successfully make this kind of like its own franchise. Of like, you could tell when a Harrison Ford movie was being sold as, this one's a little more for grownups and it would still work.

• 57:01Speaker 03

  And I'm gonna be a little bit of a rascal, but you know, but like my moral compass will ultimately be where it needs to be. Even, even in Presumed Innocent, though, like, that gets pretty wonky, but like, yeah, but it's not him.

• 57:16David Sims?

  Condemn thief. That movie's awesome.

• 57:19Griffin Newman?

  Seem and Damon.

• 57:19Speaker 03

  That movie's so good.

• 57:21David Sims?

  So, uh, he, you know, and he, what, he hang out, hung out with some Philly homicide cops. He did his work. Now to cast Rachel Lap.

• 57:28Griffin Newman?

  Can I just jump in here with one thing?

• 57:30David Sims?

  What?

• 57:32Griffin Newman?

  Don't say it with that level of disdain. I like talking about the making of the movie Witness. Peter Weir was like, I love this script. I, this is A-list movie star. Is this guy gonna be a diva? Is he gonna swing around too much weight? Like, I need to meet with him and see if there's like an unspoken connection or not. Because otherwise, I don't know what I'm getting into. I've never worked with someone of this level before. And he goes to where Harrison Ford lives at the time, at some ranch. And Harrison Ford picks him up himself at the local airport. And he's like, good sign of character, you know, didn't send a fucking chauffeur.

• 58:03Speaker 03

  Right.

• 58:04Griffin Newman?

  And then they like sit down in Harrison Ford's kitchen and they go over the script. And he was like, all he wanted to talk about was what could make the story better. There was no like, I want my character to have a moment like this.

• 58:15David Sims?

  Right.

• 58:16Griffin Newman?

  What's the motivation here? It was sort of unspoken. We both think this character's rock solid. What I'm concerned with is the big picture. And he was just like, yes.

• 58:26Speaker 03

  Thank you so much.

• 58:27Griffin Newman?

  He said, I'm Dob Mob for life.

• 58:29Speaker 03

  Sure, yeah.

• 58:30Griffin Newman?

  But that he was like-

• 58:31David Sims?

  He said, but David did crush that draft and good job by him.

• 58:33Speaker 03

  Yes, yeah.

• 58:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 58:35Speaker 03

  Six months ago at this point.

• 58:36David Sims?

  What do some people think?

• 58:39Griffin Newman?

  Just maybe if the vote had gone on a little longer, the muppet heads would have risen up and really come to their senses.

• 58:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:46Griffin Newman?

  But no, but he, like, it's the thing you always hear about Harrison Ford, that he like approaches everything like a craftsman. And I think his ultimate value as a movie star is like, few people have ever been better at carrying an audience through a movie.

• 58:58David Sims?

  Sure.

• 58:58Griffin Newman?

  And it's not just that he has the innate like appeal.

• 59:01Speaker 03

  Right.

• 59:01Griffin Newman?

  It's that he really thinks about that stuff. And he was like, there was no eager driven conversation. It was all just like, what does this movie need to work? You know, like, his most kind of movie star note was originally, I think, the final, uh, battle with the bad guys.

• 59:20Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 59:20Griffin Newman?

  Was a shootout. And he was like, this sucks. We need to have a more exciting way for one of these guys to die.

• 59:25David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can't just be like bang, bang.

• 59:27Griffin Newman?

  It does have to be silly, but like, people have shown up, there's something needs to happen that feels- Like ingrained in.

• 59:32David Sims?

  And it rocks.

• 59:33Speaker 03

  Right. It's so good. Was he, was John Book originally a carpenter in the script?

• 59:39David Sims?

  That feels like a Harrison Ford. I mean, the man can work wood. I don't know, but that feels like something.

• 59:44Griffin Newman?

  No, it was, it was not in the script and Weir was like, I think you need to see what they do. So it doesn't all just become like the comedy of like, how weird it is. They eat breakfast at this time.

• 59:54Speaker 03

  Right, right, right. But like, but Harrison Ford is.

• 59:57Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely.

• 59:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, was a carpenter.

• 59:59David Sims?

  He's a carpenter.

• 1:00:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, like he billed Joan Didion's like Deck in Malibu or whatever.

• 1:00:03David Sims?

  He can nail me anytime.

• 1:00:04Griffin Newman?

  It's a very smart show. Don't tell. Looking at the elements of what he had. It was not in the script. And he was just like, I think we should do this. They allot an entire day for it. And the movie uses like five continuous minutes of footage, which other people would be like, fucking hurry it up. We don't need to see the whole barn.

• 1:00:20David Sims?

  Rachel Lamb.

• 1:00:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:24David Sims?

  First they want Glenn Close.

• 1:00:25Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:00:25David Sims?

  Makes sense. She's hot.

• 1:00:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:27David Sims?

  At the time. She's on the real thing on Broadway, which was this gigantic, you know, Tom Soper play.

• 1:00:33Speaker 03

  Wonderful play.

• 1:00:33David Sims?

  Mike Nichols directed and Jeremy Irons is her co-star and her agent is like, look, I'll get her out of the show. And they're like, no, you won't. Like Mike Nichols would fucking nuke you. So that doesn't happen. Peter Weir pivots to Isabella Rossellini. She's kind of wishy washy about it. Maybe, maybe not. She goes over to the Berishnikov movie White Nights instead.

• 1:00:55Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:00:55David Sims?

  Peter Weir does eventually work with her in Furious.

• 1:00:57Speaker 03

  I mean, Witness is way better than White Nights, but like White Nights is pretty.

• 1:01:01Griffin Newman?

  Good movie.

• 1:01:01Speaker 03

  That's some, yeah, that's some dance trash movie for you right there.

• 1:01:06David Sims?

  Right, right, right. Garbage dance movie. Uh, then Peter Weir's like, what if we got like a German actress? Right, right? Like we're casting a Pennsylvania Dutch woman.

• 1:01:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:15Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:01:16David Sims?

  Uh, and uh, like they think about that, but they can't find anyone. There's just one lady, apparently he likes of the unnamed who like called on the phone and was like, hello, Mr. Weir. And they were like, ah, this is not gonna work. Like, no. Kelly McGillis.

• 1:01:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:30David Sims?

  High school dropout.

• 1:01:32Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:01:33David Sims?

  Had studied at the Pacific Conservatory of Performing Arts.

• 1:01:36Griffin Newman?

  But then where'd she go after that, David?

• 1:01:37David Sims?

  Uh, Julie Art. And then she was in Reuben, Reuben, which is.

• 1:01:42Griffin Newman?

  The Tom Conti movie.

• 1:01:43David Sims?

  Yeah, the Tom Conti movie. I've never seen it. What a title, though. It's about a guy eating two sandwiches, I see.

• 1:01:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, exactly. One on each hand. But.

• 1:01:49David Sims?

  Wait, why is it called Reuben, Reuben? He's not playing a character called Reuben.

• 1:01:53Griffin Newman?

  Interesting.

• 1:01:54David Sims?

  Apparently, there's a dog called Ruben.

• 1:01:56Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:01:57David Sims?

  But he, Tom Conti got an Oscar nomination for that movie.

• 1:02:00Griffin Newman?

  That is her only previous film credit. This is her second film.

• 1:02:03David Sims?

  That's eighty-three.

• 1:02:04Griffin Newman?

  Right, that, yeah.

• 1:02:05David Sims?

  And I guess he correctly is like, I want someone on the more sort of like new side.

• 1:02:10Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:02:11David Sims?

  Because this is a fairly kind of innocent character.

• 1:02:14Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:02:14David Sims?

  I guess, right? Uh, and...

• 1:02:17Griffin Newman?

  I mean, I think he's very smart. Like, you were saying that Ford spent a lot of time following Philly police, right? And then was like, I don't want to do any Amish research because my character shouldn't know any of this.

• 1:02:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:02:29David Sims?

  Makes some sense, yeah.

• 1:02:30Griffin Newman?

  The Amish people were like fully immersed in doing a ton of research and living in Amish country. Because they had to know it, but I also think very smartly, they kept being like, who's the big name who'd be good for this role? And then settling on a recent Juilliard grad, an opera singer, a ballet dancer, right?

• 1:02:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:47Griffin Newman?

  He's got Mortensen. Like, it helps that when he goes to this place, obviously you watch it now. And like, two of the four are super fucking recognizable.

• 1:02:56David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:02:56Griffin Newman?

  In retrospect, but it must have helped that you're like, he enters a world...

• 1:02:59David Sims?

  Who are these people?

• 1:03:00Speaker 03

  Right, who are these people? Like, I buy them as... And, and they're also introducing me into this world that I do not know about either.

• 1:03:07Griffin Newman?

  And, and he's casting vibes and looks in a lot of ways, yeah.

• 1:03:10David Sims?

  Apparently Ford was not into the screen test and was like, eh. And Peter said, quote, Harrison, if you're gonna work with me, you've gotta trust me.

• 1:03:18Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:03:18David Sims?

  And if you don't trust me, you shouldn't make the movie. And everyone goes quiet and like Harrison's like, okay, well, I guess she's in the picture. You know, like, so.

• 1:03:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:28Speaker 03

  Respect.

• 1:03:29David Sims?

  Good shit, exactly. Uh, and so they, you know, they send her off to Lancaster country and she hangs out with some, some Amish people. Like, they give her, they give her, they give her, you know, a little education.

• 1:03:41Griffin Newman?

  Weir has her work with an accent coach and he said, uh, I, his greatest worry is that sometimes if people work on the accent too hard, the accent becomes the entire performance.

• 1:03:52David Sims?

  Right, right. You don't want him to, right, overdo that.

• 1:03:53Griffin Newman?

  And he kept doing like check-ins with her every couple of days. And then one time she calls and does the accent for him and he's like, that was your last class, roll it back to three days ago.

• 1:04:03Speaker 03

  Okay, got it.

• 1:04:04Griffin Newman?

  One step too far. There are a lot of weird stories like that.

• 1:04:08David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:08Griffin Newman?

  Where it's like, add, add, add, add, and then he's like, actually subtract.

• 1:04:12David Sims?

  Coco Chanel.

• 1:04:13Griffin Newman?

  He lets it build. Yeah, exactly.

• 1:04:16David Sims?

  She, one of the most interesting things she, she learns when she's hanging out with the Amish family, which I really like, is that they don't say please and thank you. And she's like, that really opened up vast numbers of doors for me. They're not concerned about pleasantries, just necessities of life. They're very real, they're down to earth, they, they're there to work. Life is work, right? You know, like, that's the rewarding thing for them. So, that, that, I mean, she's so good in this movie.

• 1:04:40Griffin Newman?

  She's fucking phenomenal in this.

• 1:04:40Speaker 03

  She's unbelievable.

• 1:04:41David Sims?

  And, like, she's such an, you know, she's a bit of a sad Hollywood story. Because, like, you know, she gets discarded by Hollywood, like, I feel like by the early 90s, essentially, right? Like, she just has, like, a sort of five-ish year.

• 1:04:54Griffin Newman?

  I've never seen Cat Chaser, which is the Abel Ferrar movie with her and Peter Weller.

• 1:04:59David Sims?

  And I was. Sounds like normal, uh, set.

• 1:05:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:01Griffin Newman?

  To dig in harder on this.

• 1:05:03David Sims?

  That was 90, that was 89. Cause obviously after this, she does Top Gun.

• 1:05:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:05:08David Sims?

  Uh, in 88, she does The Accused.

• 1:05:11Griffin Newman?

  I mean, that's the run, the run.

• 1:05:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's unbelievable.

• 1:05:13David Sims?

  That's her stardom.

• 1:05:14Griffin Newman?

  Those three movies in, uh, three years are just humongous.

• 1:05:18David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:05:18Griffin Newman?

  She says that Cat Chaser basically made her wanna walk away from Hollywood.

• 1:05:22David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:05:22Griffin Newman?

  I've not been able to find her go in depth as to what happened, but you can make a lot of assumptions with two insane people she was working with. But then she, like, scales way down.

• 1:05:31David Sims?

  Right. Her only big movie after that is, right, is The Babe, where she plays Mrs. Ruth in the Babe Ruth movie.

• 1:05:38Griffin Newman?

  It's like a lot of TV movies.

• 1:05:41Speaker 03

  What, what does, what is Mrs. Ruth up to?

• 1:05:43David Sims?

  Ah.

• 1:05:44Griffin Newman?

  Well, she's, she's writing a check that will be on cash and one day will be sold as part of the Bambi, you know, right?

• 1:05:49Speaker 03

  Oh, okay, alright, I know, yeah.

• 1:05:51David Sims?

  I mean, I assume Babe Ruth's mom, uh, wife, I mean, I assume Babe Ruth's mom was like, Jesus, look at this giant child of mine who instingers.

• 1:05:59Griffin Newman?

  What a fucking pun on this.

• 1:06:01David Sims?

  No, I mean, famously, actually Babe Ruth was like, a, a child who, like, was just a street maniac. Like, that they were like, we cannot, he had to be sent to, like, a home for boys.

• 1:06:09Griffin Newman?

  He kept hitting people with bats and they were like, what if we put a baseball right here?

• 1:06:14David Sims?

  I think like Babe Ruth's life as an athlete, despite being married to a couple of different women, was basically like fucking ladies every night on the road, you know?

• 1:06:22Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:06:22David Sims?

  Babe Ruth, smoking eighty cigars, eating Ford porterhouse steaks. Right, that's what you always hear about Babe Ruth.

• 1:06:27Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:06:27Griffin Newman?

  But I, I think-

• 1:06:28David Sims?

  You know, he was a, you know.

• 1:06:29Griffin Newman?

  It definitely feels like, uh, the industry moved on from telling me this really quickly. It also feels like, you know, she had her sort of comeback about ten years ago where she was in a couple of Ty West movies. She came out.

• 1:06:40David Sims?

  Well, yeah, she's in the Innkeepers.

• 1:06:42Griffin Newman?

  She started doing like interviews and sort of talking more about like her arc. And I feel like she does frame it as like, to some degree, I was just like, I fucking hate these people. I hate this industry.

• 1:06:53Speaker 03

  I don't want to do it anymore.

• 1:06:54Griffin Newman?

  I don't want to do it anymore.

• 1:06:55Speaker 03

  I respect that.

• 1:06:56Griffin Newman?

  I'm sure they also were not offering her the project she was deserving of. But she also kind of frames it as like, I really soured on it pretty quickly.

• 1:07:06David Sims?

  I mean, yeah, it's, it sucks. I mean, I don't know. She's, the whole thing with her in Top Gun is it's like, it's not like she's bad in Top Gun, but she and Cruz don't have a lot of chemistry.

• 1:07:15Speaker 03

  They have nothing, yeah.

• 1:07:16David Sims?

  And, right, and it just like, I mean-

• 1:07:19Speaker 03

  It's funny when you were talking about the Harrison Ford, um, Peter Weir meeting and the prep. And he's sitting down and he's like, okay, so like, what can I do to make this movie better? Which is in many ways like the complete opposite of the Tom Cruise experience, which is like, what can I, I am singularly focused on what can I do to make sure that I am Ethan Hunt-

• 1:07:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:41Speaker 03

  -in every frame-

• 1:07:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:42Speaker 03

  -of this movie. And you guys understand, I saved movies in all of, all of the world.

• 1:07:47Griffin Newman?

  It's the Harrison Ford craftsman thing, you know? And, and like, there's an interview on this beautiful Arrow set

• 1:07:56Griffin Newman?

  of him doing like some daytime talk show when this movie's about to come out.

• 1:08:00Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:08:00Griffin Newman?

  Uh, with like a fluffy, like, you know, local daytime journalist.

• 1:08:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:04Griffin Newman?

  And he's clearly not disrespectful to her and she's not stupid. But immediately she's like, you know, you have a bit of a reputation for not liking doing this, that you seem uncomfortable when you're doing press. But I've heard, and tell me if this is just a line, that you actually said, I want to do as much press as I can for this movie because I care about it a lot. And he- Does his very flashy, unflashy Harrison Ford like, well, I'm proud of the picture and how it turned out. And this is not the kind of picture that sells itself and you have to go do it because otherwise, if you're making work, but it's not communicating with people, then what's the point? These like his notorious reputation for being a bit of a stonewall. And then you watch it and you're like, he's just not doing soft shoe to sell his movies.

• 1:08:47David Sims?

  Which he doesn't really do.

• 1:08:48Griffin Newman?

  He's speaking very intelligently and reservedly.

• 1:08:51Speaker 03

  It's like Leo on New Heights.

• 1:08:53Griffin Newman?

  Totally.

• 1:08:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, which is like, guys, remember that six to eight months ago, Leonardo DiCaprio went on the New Heights podcast with Benicio del Toro?

• 1:09:01David Sims?

  It's just so funny that they always had him with Benicio, except when he was on Big Picture, he was with PTA. But largely it was like him and Benicio.

• 1:09:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:10David Sims?

  And it kind of felt like Benicio was his like little sort of helper, like in kindergarten.

• 1:09:15Griffin Newman?

  Do you remember they did that with him and Pitt on Once Upon a Time in Hollywood? That they went on WTF together?

• 1:09:20Speaker 03

  That was great. And there was like five minutes when they were talking, they actually let their guards down and they were talking about all the different ways that they get away from the paparazzi.

• 1:09:28David Sims?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:09:29Speaker 03

  And that was awesome, but it was.

• 1:09:31David Sims?

  Largely they're more.

• 1:09:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, they're professionals, you know, they like, they, they've done this and they know what they want to say and what they don't.

• 1:09:37David Sims?

  New Heights, which is not a podcast I listen to, no offense to it. Like I only see little clips sometimes, but that one, the clips where it's just like Jason Kelsey going, wah! Just to start off and you're just like, I don't think this is his energy.

• 1:09:49Griffin Newman?

  And Leo's like, hello, thank you for having me on this podcast.

• 1:09:52David Sims?

  I love cinema. Yes, thank you, Leo. We're glad you love cinema. I mean, God bless him. He's, he's out there.

• 1:09:57Speaker 03

  He's doing, yeah.

• 1:09:58David Sims?

  He wants to sell the movie.

• 1:09:59Speaker 03

  Exactly, just like Harrison.

• 1:10:00David Sims?

  And you can't go on Fallon anymore. I mean, you can, but like, nobody cares.

• 1:10:03Griffin Newman?

  This woman in the interview is doing the fucking 1985 version of our current media landscape hell where she just keeps pushing like, one could guess that perhaps this movie is you trying to like put Indiana Jones and Han Solo in the backseat. And he's like, no, I'm proud of those movies. I'm proud of those performances. I will make a third Indiana Jones picture.

• 1:10:24David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:10:24Griffin Newman?

  And she's like, but do you hate the golden handcuffs of being known for these two big franchises? And he's like, I'm not going to be an asshole. I'm not going to complain about it. I'm proud of the films. I like the people I work with.

• 1:10:33David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:10:34Griffin Newman?

  You know, that she is sensing that he sees this as a pivot point and thus he might be trying to.

• 1:10:41Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:10:42Griffin Newman?

  Throw the old stuff in the garbage. I don't want to be seen that way anymore. And he's so even handed about it, but he also kind of keeps saying, I've heard him say this in other places, like, he was like thirty-six or thirty-seven when Star Wars happened.

• 1:10:55Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:10:55Griffin Newman?

  He had gone through his whole arc of like fucking leaving a studio contract, becoming a carpenter, building back up the small parts with American Graffiti and was just like, I'm here to do work. Like, I have no discomfort with this. I had walked away from it once before. I'm not going to complain about being too successful.

• 1:11:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:15Griffin Newman?

  And being pigeonholed into being an A-lister, but I want to use my power for good.

• 1:11:19Speaker 03

  There's a, um, a men's health cover, featuring Kyle Chandler, I think, from like ten, fifteen years ago. And the cover line is like, "A good hang with the last real American dude."

• 1:11:31David Sims?

  I can tell you exactly what it says. It says, "A serious hang with the last solid dude."

• 1:11:36Speaker 03

  The last solid dude, okay. And I'm-

• 1:11:39David Sims?

  He's looking good.

• 1:11:39Speaker 03

  You know, and I, it's the best cover line writing that ever, because I think about it anytime I'm confronted with like the last solid dude. You know, but like Harrison Ford was giving last solid dude.

• 1:11:50David Sims?

  But they also had, I will say, a guide to the best summer gear, best new tennis racket, weekend bags, sunglasses for every sport, and of course, cruising motorcycles.

• 1:11:59Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:11:59David Sims?

  Now, I need two to three cruising motorcycles every summer.

• 1:12:02Speaker 03

  Does Harrison Ford ride motorcycles?

• 1:12:05David Sims?

  He probably does.

• 1:12:05Speaker 03

  In addition to the planes?

• 1:12:07Griffin Newman?

  Indiana Jones does.

• 1:12:08Speaker 03

  Sure, that's right.

• 1:12:09Griffin Newman?

  I imagine he's done it in his off time as well.

• 1:12:12Speaker 03

  But it's-

• 1:12:12David Sims?

  He just feels like a vehicle guy, right? Like, he likes vehicles.

• 1:12:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:12:16David Sims?

  He enjoys cycling and tennis.

• 1:12:18Griffin Newman?

  I like my little red wagon.

• 1:12:19Speaker 03

  Cycling. I remember when he was-

• 1:12:21David Sims?

  He's a big bike guy.

• 1:12:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, when he was in the UK filming the new Indiana Jones, which we don't have to talk about, he was like, you know, in his spandex, like cycling around on the weekends a lot, just showing up at pubs.

• 1:12:31Griffin Newman?

  I know he's done fifteen television series in that same amount of time.

• 1:12:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:12:36Griffin Newman?

  But it was a little alarming to look at his IMDB last night and go like, oh- Post pandemic, he has only made two films.

• 1:12:43David Sims?

  Which are?

• 1:12:44Griffin Newman?

  Indiana Jones and the Dollar Destiny and Captain America Brave New World.

• 1:12:48Speaker 03

  Oh, right. Red Hulk. Totally forgot about that.

• 1:12:50Griffin Newman?

  I'm like five years.

• 1:12:51Speaker 03

  Red Hulk's right there in the office.

• 1:12:52David Sims?

  So we love Red Hulk. Well, we like our president.

• 1:12:54Griffin Newman?

  Nothing but respect.

• 1:12:55Speaker 03

  Oh, right. Of course.

• 1:12:56David Sims?

  We also have another one over here.

• 1:12:58Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:12:59David Sims?

  It's a popcorn bucket. We just think it's pretty funny that Harrison Ford played

• 1:13:04Speaker 03

  Red Hulk.

• 1:13:04David Sims?

  Thaddeus Ross, like eight films into that role.

• 1:13:07Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:13:07David Sims?

  And turned into Red Hulk.

• 1:13:08Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:13:09David Sims?

  And I guess now Marvel will just kind of be like, just forget it. Just forget that ever fucking happened.

• 1:13:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. It just feels like a shame.

• 1:13:15David Sims?

  Yeah, it's a shame. I mean, he does shrinking.

• 1:13:17Griffin Newman?

  Right. And everyone loves shrinking.

• 1:13:18David Sims?

  And he likes, do they? Nobody loves shrinking.

• 1:13:20Speaker 03

  Never seen it.

• 1:13:20Griffin Newman?

  My mom loves shrinking.

• 1:13:22David Sims?

  There you go.

• 1:13:22Speaker 03

  It's good.

• 1:13:23Griffin Newman?

  But also talks about it as if it's final season Game of Thrones where she's like, you and your friends weren't watching shrinking? Everyone I talked to is watching shrinking.

• 1:13:32David Sims?

  I can't say I've shrunk of late.

• 1:13:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:35David Sims?

  And then he did, right, 1923.

• 1:13:37Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:13:37David Sims?

  With Helen Mirren.

• 1:13:38Speaker 03

  Right. But that was like a one season thing, right?

• 1:13:41David Sims?

  It was two. They did two seasons.

• 1:13:42Speaker 03

  But is, is his character still alive? Which Dutton is he?

• 1:13:46David Sims?

  He is Jacob Tutton, of course, and he is, I mean, he's alive in 1923.

• 1:13:49Griffin Newman?

  Hey.

• 1:13:50Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 1:13:50David Sims?

  And maybe he's on ice and in Yellowstone, they'll like find him in like an ice chest.

• 1:13:54Griffin Newman?

  I hope so.

• 1:13:54David Sims?

  And thaw him out.

• 1:13:56Griffin Newman?

  And he rots out.

• 1:13:58Speaker 03

  Yellowstone is, is current day?

• 1:14:01David Sims?

  Yellowstone is present day.

• 1:14:02Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 1:14:03David Sims?

  That's right. And so we had to go into the past.

• 1:14:05Speaker 03

  They've done like 18 something and they've done 1923.

• 1:14:08David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:08Speaker 03

  Have they done anything like 56s?

• 1:14:10Griffin Newman?

  I don't think so yet.

• 1:14:12David Sims?

  3000 B.C. and it's just like, oh, grass.

• 1:14:15Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say future.

• 1:14:17David Sims?

  Oh, sure.

• 1:14:17Griffin Newman?

  Yellowstone 2099.

• 1:14:19Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:14:20David Sims?

  Where they're getting like cyber oil.

• 1:14:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:22Speaker 03

  Great.

• 1:14:23David Sims?

  For cyber cattle.

• 1:14:23Griffin Newman?

  The cyber Duttons. Everything should just be cyber. I mean, this is a thing I feel like Chris Ryan is, is constantly sort of litigating, but like, I am sometimes confused as to which, uh, Sheridan Ver shows are Yellowstone universe and which ones aren't. Like Lawman Bass Reeves is not connected to Yellowstone?

• 1:14:44David Sims?

  No, that's, because that's about a real person.

• 1:14:46Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:14:46David Sims?

  And I think Tulsa King is also not.

• 1:14:48Griffin Newman?

  Is not.

• 1:14:49David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:14:49Griffin Newman?

  And Lioness.

• 1:14:49David Sims?

  Tulsa King is just set in our disgusting woke world.

• 1:14:52Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:14:52David Sims?

  Which Sylvester Stallone must dismantle brick by brick.

• 1:14:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:56David Sims?

  But, um, uh, they, they have done, of course, eighteen eighty-three and nineteen twenty-three. And then they have upcoming The Madison.

• 1:15:03Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:15:04David Sims?

  With Michelle Pfeiffer and Patrick J. Adams and Matthew Fox. We need to thaw him out.

• 1:15:08Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 1:15:09David Sims?

  And then something called Y Marshals.

• 1:15:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Do you know what Y is, if I'm not mistaken?

• 1:15:16David Sims?

  Well, I'm guessing that Y refers to Yellowstone, but go ahead.

• 1:15:19Griffin Newman?

  Well, that.

• 1:15:20David Sims?

  I mean, I assume.

• 1:15:21Griffin Newman?

  The greatest boondoggle of the modern streaming era is that Paramount sells the Yellowstone rights to Peacock.

• 1:15:27David Sims?

  They have the rights to all but Yellowstone.

• 1:15:28Speaker 03

  Right, yeah.

• 1:15:29Griffin Newman?

  Because they're like, well, we're never gonna start a streaming service. And then CBS and Paramount re-merge. And now Paramount inherits CBS All-Access, rebrands as Paramount Plus, and is like, you're telling me they have Yellowstone forever? So when the whole Sheridan Costner Bruja blows over, they're rubbing their hands together and they're like, well, if the show ends, we stop having to give Peacock anything? So they're making a new show that's most of the supporting cast of present day Yellowstone.

• 1:16:00David Sims?

  Your Luke Grimes, your Gil Birmingham.

• 1:16:03Griffin Newman?

  Continuing the same plotlines, but they're like, it's a new show.

• 1:16:06Speaker 03

  Oh, great.

• 1:16:07Griffin Newman?

  And we own this now.

• 1:16:08Speaker 03

  Got it, okay.

• 1:16:09Griffin Newman?

  And I guess they're calling it Y instead of Yellowstone to even more distance itself.

• 1:16:13David Sims?

  They're also working on nineteen forty-four and then something called six, six, six, six. A shudder to think what that is.

• 1:16:20Griffin Newman?

  Yellowstone in hell?

• 1:16:21David Sims?

  Probably. Look, Witness. Let's talk about Witness. I just want to tell you, of course, that they filmed it in Lancaster County, but of course, they did not film The Amish, who refused to be filmed.

• 1:16:29Griffin Newman?

  And we're like, you can take anything you want. You can use our homes. Do not fucking capture our souls.

• 1:16:34David Sims?

  I mean, a little bit. The Amish were very unhappy with this. Have you, have either of you been to Amish country? Certainly.

• 1:16:40Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely.

• 1:16:41David Sims?

  Yeah, I've been as well.

• 1:16:42Speaker 03

  Like, in what context? Like, did you, like, take a bus? Were you the tourists?

• 1:16:45David Sims?

  No, no, it's just a nice place to go on vacation. Like, it's, it's sort of like going to upstate New York, but going this way and it's a slightly different vibe.

• 1:16:51Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say, for me, it was like, uh, eighth grade overnight trip to Philly.

• 1:16:55David Sims?

  It is a classic thing.

• 1:16:56Griffin Newman?

  Liberty Bell.

• 1:16:57David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:16:58Griffin Newman?

  And then we went to fucking Amish country. And the thing I remember I maybe have invoked in previous episodes.

• 1:17:02David Sims?

  Dinner.

• 1:17:03Griffin Newman?

  We go to Amish country and you see that you get the tour and then they show you the butter and whatever the fuck.

• 1:17:08David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:17:08Griffin Newman?

  But then they were like, and then we're gonna show you a 4D movie about Amish life. And we went into a custom-built theater to watch this 40-minute original film about a kid going on Rumspringa and thinking of leaving the Amish community and coming back. But it was built in this environmental theater where there were like effects and like doors shuttering and like wind and stuff. And I was like, this is the most anti-Amish thing.

• 1:17:33David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:34Griffin Newman?

  You're trying to sell me on the beauty of the simple life.

• 1:17:37Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:17:37Griffin Newman?

  And you're like putting like William Kessler tanglers under the seat and having like, it was like a theater built as if it was like a barn. And shit would go off around you.

• 1:17:48David Sims?

  Ben shaking his head. I was just always kinda jealous by the tradition of Rumspringa. Like, I wasn't restricted, really, as a teen, right?

• 1:17:58Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:17:58David Sims?

  At all. I kinda got away with a lot of troublemaking and shenanigans.

• 1:18:02Griffin Newman?

  But it was the idea of having the purge-esque get a jail.

• 1:18:06David Sims?

  There's something of like, just go off. I love that idea.

• 1:18:10Griffin Newman?

  We actually want you to fuck up.

• 1:18:12David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:18:12Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:18:12David Sims?

  Yeah. Yeah. Um, but it is, I will say, I think Rumspringa is a somewhat, our, our view of it is, uh, not like entirely accurate, I think. It's not just like taking ecstasy constantly and like going to clubs. It's a Pennsylvania Dutch word for running around. And, uh, but I don't think like that the actual vibe of it by and large is like, yeah, you should like,

• 1:18:35Griffin Newman?

  Murder is legal for one week.

• 1:18:36David Sims?

  Right. You should like go to Vegas.

• 1:18:37Speaker 03

  It's not like the purge.

• 1:18:39David Sims?

  No. Become a graffiti artist. It's a little bit more seen, I think, within most communities as like a time to engage in courtship. And like, you know,

• 1:18:48Griffin Newman?

  Shoplift.

• 1:18:50Speaker 03

  So.

• 1:18:51David Sims?

  Just be a little looser with like.

• 1:18:54Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:18:54David Sims?

  You know, it's like, it's.

• 1:18:55Speaker 03

  So when you say engage in courtship, though, you do mean like fuck around?

• 1:18:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:00David Sims?

  No, but I don't.

• 1:19:00Griffin Newman?

  Find out.

• 1:19:01David Sims?

  I don't think it's like, right, why don't you just like hit the clubs and just like run through ladies?

• 1:19:06Griffin Newman?

  I mean, part of it, I'm sure, is that it was mainly meant to be shown to school groups like the one I was in. But this 4D movie, its depiction of Rumspringa was an Amish kid driving a car and eating a slice of pizza.

• 1:19:17Speaker 03

  Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:18David Sims?

  And they were like.

• 1:19:19Griffin Newman?

  He's going crazy.

• 1:19:20David Sims?

  Right, I think there's a little bit of like, okay, like, things can be a little less strict while you're in this kind of like unsettled 16, 17, 18 year old time of your life where you maybe want to explore.

• 1:19:29Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:19:30David Sims?

  You know, just being English.

• 1:19:32Griffin Newman?

  One hand on the wheel, one hand on the slice.

• 1:19:34David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:19:35Griffin Newman?

  There was a line I remember where he literally was like, "Look, I love my grandfather, but pizza's gonna be pretty hard to give up."

• 1:19:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:43David Sims?

  Now, look, I mean, it's so true. Maybe they can make pizza, it's just not plain. The whole thing with the Amish is like.

• 1:19:49Griffin Newman?

  It'd be very, it'd be the plainest pizza you've ever had.

• 1:19:51David Sims?

  I can feel myself being disrespectful to a community I don't understand the second I start talking about this. All I have are stereotypes.

• 1:20:00Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:20:00Speaker 03

  Though, an amazing thing about this movie is that I, like, I know the Amish themselves hated it, and so it was the Mennonites who were, like, filmed as extras, right?

• 1:20:08David Sims?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:20:09Speaker 03

  But I think it is very respectful.

• 1:20:12David Sims?

  Of cour-, that's why this movie is so beautiful.

• 1:20:14Speaker 03

  And it's like, and it is, it sells what is like lovely about this community and.

• 1:20:21Griffin Newman?

  You watch it thinking he might stay.

• 1:20:24David Sims?

  Or at least just that, like, well, the whole thing that's interesting to me about Witness, which we should talk about, which is a film about John Book.

• 1:20:32Griffin Newman?

  John Book, Harrison Ford is John Book.

• 1:20:34David Sims?

  But of course, initially, it is about Rachel Lapp, a woman in an Amish community, whose husband has died, played by Kelly McIlwes, who, with her son Samuel, played by Lucas Haas and his big moon eyes, just the biggest eyes in the world.

• 1:20:50Griffin Newman?

  Also his drug ears.

• 1:20:51David Sims?

  And cute ears, but I just feel like the eyes are so vital, because you're like, he witnessed.

• 1:20:55Griffin Newman?

  Well, yes.

• 1:20:55Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:20:56David Sims?

  Like, and anytime you see those eyes of his, you're just like, it's still in his eyes.

• 1:21:00Speaker 03

  You know, when he sees Danny Glover in the, like, press clipping in the box, they have that shot that is like. Like of his eyes, like to get out, get out eyes shot, you know? And he's like, oh, it's that one. So.

• 1:21:11David Sims?

  Harrison Ford like calmly putting his finger down is like a shot I never forget.

• 1:21:15Griffin Newman?

  Even the inciting incident of this movie, just being, seeing his eyes through the crack of the

• 1:21:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, totally.

• 1:21:21Griffin Newman?

  door, you need those eyes to punch through the crack. Yeah.

• 1:21:24David Sims?

  But his, his, you know, they're, they're going to Baltimore to spend time with her sister. Is her sister also Amish, one assumes, or has she maybe left the community in some way?

• 1:21:33Griffin Newman?

  Presumably her sisters.

• 1:21:34David Sims?

  It's not really mentioned.

• 1:21:35Speaker 03

  It's not made clear. What's going on in Baltimore is not

• 1:21:38David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:21:38Speaker 03

  totally clear.

• 1:21:39David Sims?

  But I guess the vibe is kind of like, you need to mourn, you need a little bit of time to get some I don't know.

• 1:21:44Griffin Newman?

  It's very clear it's gonna be his first time leaving.

• 1:21:48David Sims?

  It's his first time on a train. It's all that stuff.

• 1:21:50Griffin Newman?

  First time visiting the city.

• 1:21:51David Sims?

  I mean, it's the exact, again, not to dwell on Dead Poets, but we did the recently

• 1:21:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:55David Sims?

  opening of Dead Poets where it's like everyone filing into the school.

• 1:21:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:59David Sims?

  And you're, it's just quiet, like the way this movie just starts with the funeral where it's just like, just, I'm bringing the heat up slowly, like just get to know this like landscape, these people. Like it doesn't need to be lurid. It doesn't need to be weird or goofy. It's just kind of lovely. Him getting on the train is so lovely and like looking out the window and being so excited.

• 1:22:20Griffin Newman?

  Also, fully 15 minutes before Harrison Ford shows up.

• 1:22:23David Sims?

  And then, of course, he witnesses a throat slashing.

• 1:22:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:27David Sims?

  He's pretty creative in the little stalls. Does some stall action.

• 1:22:31Speaker 03

  Good instincts.

• 1:22:31David Sims?

  Switching stalls, exactly.

• 1:22:32Griffin Newman?

  Indiana Jones grabbing the hat.

• 1:22:34David Sims?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:22:35Speaker 03

  And that hat at the last moment.

• 1:22:37Griffin Newman?

  He's really smart.

• 1:22:38David Sims?

  Uh, Danny Glover, a very new to film Danny Glover, of course, does a bad, bad thing.

• 1:22:42Griffin Newman?

  Places in the heart?

• 1:22:44David Sims?

  Uh, it sounds like, I know that, like, cause the whole thing with him too, is he starts a little late, like Danny Glover.

• 1:22:49Griffin Newman?

  Do you find?

• 1:22:49David Sims?

  He's almost immediately too old for this shit.

• 1:22:51Griffin Newman?

  Right. The other thing is, I think because Danny Glover like hits the ground running, it like arrives as like a fully formed adult movie star in a way.

• 1:22:59David Sims?

  Cause Color Purple is like, you know, same year is, is in the fall or whatever.

• 1:23:03Griffin Newman?

  Right. And then Lethal Weapons, the year after, like it's such a quick kind of ascension. That something in my brain short circuits when I see him in a movie like this and he's not hyper famous yet. Right? Like, he shows up. There's just no era of like, watching other A-list movie stars where you're like, oh, there are a couple of like, small parts they have where they're a little green before they figure out their stuff. And they figure out their look. And you're like, even in this, it doesn't, uh, unbalance the movie. But I keep being like, right, Danny Glover's only in like, three scenes.

• 1:23:36Speaker 03

  Right. And you're, I mean, it's hard when you're going back in time and when you've, because this is not the first time you have, you, Griffin,

• 1:23:43Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:23:44Speaker 03

  have seen Danny Glover. So even though,

• 1:23:46Griffin Newman?

  Right, right.

• 1:23:46Speaker 03

  it's he's new, it's in the movie to the scene, not new to you.

• 1:23:51Griffin Newman?

  That, that is my point, is that unlike other people where you can go back and watch the earlier films and be like, oh, of course, this is early in their career before they were a big star. Danny Glover just somehow always feels like,

• 1:24:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:24:01Griffin Newman?

  he must have been above the title from the beginning.

• 1:24:04Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:24:14Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:24:14David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:15Griffin Newman?

  This episode is brought to you by XYZ Films and the acclaimed new documentary, Capturing Bigfoot. On October 20th, 1967, Roger Patterson captured 59 seconds of film showing a creature walking through the Northern California woods. I wonder if you can log that on Letterboxd?

• 1:24:32David Sims?

  It is an iconic video.

• 1:24:33Griffin Newman?

  Footage that became the most analyzed and debated in history. 59 years later, a reel of 16 millimeter film discovered in a safe, changes everything. Capturing Bigfoot reveals the untold story behind the world's greatest mystery, told for the first time by Patterson's own son and the people who were there. This is a story about family legacy, broken friendships, and how far people will go to protect a secret.

• 1:24:56David Sims?

  Of course, you got the classic, what they call Patterson Gimlin film, everyone knows, of Bigfoot out in the woods, like, the famous Bigfoot picture. This has other stuff shot by him that no one's ever seen. That's what makes this movie different.

• 1:25:07Griffin Newman?

  But we're also talking brand new 4K scans of the original film taken from the Patterson family archives that some historians have called the best rendering of the footage ever seen.

• 1:25:16David Sims?

  I feel like we've all seen that footage as like, grainy.

• 1:25:19Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:25:19David Sims?

  You know, that you see, you know, whatever, you see it in a documentary for two seconds. But this is restoring it and making it look much more clear.

• 1:25:26Griffin Newman?

  There's also a companion podcast, the Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, which goes deeper into the legend and lore of Bigfoot and the Patterson Gimlin film, featuring weekly episodes with experts in cryptozoology, urban legends, and filmmaking.

• 1:25:40David Sims?

  I'm something of an expert in cryptozoology.

• 1:25:42Griffin Newman?

  Well, of course, yes, but that's more of a hobby.

• 1:25:45David Sims?

  Yeah, this podcast, Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, is hosted by the director of the film, Mark Evans, and it's available for free on YouTube and Spotify with exclusive episodes and content available on Patreon to members of the Capturing Bigfoot Society.

• 1:26:00Griffin Newman?

  Capturing Bigfoot is now available to rent or own on Amazon Prime Video. Learn more about Capturing Bigfoot at capturingbigfoot.com.

• 1:26:17Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:26:18David Sims?

  Yes?

• 1:26:19Griffin Newman?

  People cut the cord. Means the death of the repeat, the rerun. But where, where do repeats still exist?

• 1:26:25David Sims?

  In your closet. Ah, the sweater that goes with everything, Griffin. The tee you somehow always reach for first?

• 1:26:32Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's, we know the feeling.

• 1:26:34David Sims?

  Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy. That's what Quince does best.

• 1:26:38Griffin Newman?

  Quince.

• 1:26:38David Sims?

  This is true for me. I will say, I go to Quince, I buy a thing like a polo shirt, a sweater, whatever. And I'm like, oh, I like that. Guess I'll get a bunch more because now that's what I'm gonna put on.

• 1:26:49Griffin Newman?

  Quince focuses on high-quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and merino wool. The styles are timeless, versatile, and designed to become the dependable pieces you reach for day after day.

• 1:27:03David Sims?

  Love it. They got those 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters. Those start at just $60.

• 1:27:08Griffin Newman?

  I love those.

• 1:27:08David Sims?

  Giving you the softness and quality you'd expect from a luxury brand without that luxury price tag. And, look, it's starting to get chillier. You're gonna need layers, right? How about you just do Quince for every layer, huh?

• 1:27:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:22David Sims?

  Jacket, sweater, shirt.

• 1:27:23Griffin Newman?

  David, you know what I love?

• 1:27:25David Sims?

  What?

• 1:27:25Griffin Newman?

  The ultimate commuter pants.

• 1:27:26David Sims?

  Oh.

• 1:27:27Griffin Newman?

  Cause I'm commuting constantly.

• 1:27:30David Sims?

  Beep beep.

• 1:27:30Griffin Newman?

  Yep, that's me. David, I like these. They're just clean. They're comfortable. They got the right amount of pockets.

• 1:27:36David Sims?

  Wow. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers, or go to quince.com, get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Blank Check. It's the best way to support the show.

• 1:28:04Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:28:04David Sims?

  Yes?

• 1:28:04Griffin Newman?

  Nobody likes bank fees. Why would you like them?

• 1:28:09David Sims?

  When I was younger.

• 1:28:10Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:28:11David Sims?

  I really would have benefited from a bank that did not charge me fees anytime I did anything, basically, which is I feel like what I was always dealing with.

• 1:28:19Griffin Newman?

  Chime, that's where Chime comes in. Chime.

• 1:28:22David Sims?

  They're changing the way people bank. They're not like traditional banks who charge fees and get keep perks and rewards. They offer the most rewarding fee free banking, all with no overdraft fees, no monthly fees and no minimum balance fees. Okay?

• 1:28:35Griffin Newman?

  We love being fee free. We love it.

• 1:28:37David Sims?

  You're gonna get 5% cash back on a Chime card in a category of your choice, like gas or groceries.

• 1:28:42Griffin Newman?

  My two favorite things.

• 1:28:43David Sims?

  Uh, all while building credit through regular everyday spending with no credit check. And you can grow your money faster with a savings rate that's nine times the national average. And if you're ever in a pinch, SpotMe lets you overdraft up to $200 fee free.

• 1:28:57Griffin Newman?

  Fee free.

• 1:28:58David Sims?

  So join the millions who are already banking fee free with America's number one choice for banking. Head to chime.com/blankcheck. That is chime.com/blankcheck. Sign up now. It only takes a few minutes.

• 1:29:13Speaker 04

  Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Qualifying direct deposits required. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for details.

• 1:29:37David Sims?

  Here comes, you know, he witnesses this crime. Here comes John Book. Trying to figure out what happened. And Patty Lupone is, you know, his trusty sister.

• 1:29:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:48David Sims?

  He's got the great, um, the great, I love him. What's his name? Brent Jennings.

• 1:29:53Griffin Newman?

  From Moneyball.

• 1:29:54David Sims?

  That's who I, like, he's a guy who's in a billion things.

• 1:29:56Griffin Newman?

  It's incredibly hard.

• 1:29:58David Sims?

  But I can, I, he's washed, to be, right.

• 1:30:00Griffin Newman?

  A perfect line delivery.

• 1:30:01David Sims?

  Tell him, watch, it's incredibly hard.

• 1:30:03Griffin Newman?

  Perfect line delivery.

• 1:30:05David Sims?

  I think, like, and I'm saying, like, seriously, look at this guy's resume.

• 1:30:09Griffin Newman?

  Lovely career.

• 1:30:10David Sims?

  Unbelievable amount of movies. He's still with us, he's 74 years old.

• 1:30:13Griffin Newman?

  But one could only hope to hit one line out of the park that hard.

• 1:30:18David Sims?

  But he's great in this. He's the trusty, uh, you know, partner of John.

• 1:30:22Griffin Newman?

  And I also feel like is not a movie cop, he feels like a real cop.

• 1:30:26David Sims?

  I mean, the sweet thing right early on when he, uh, um, Samuel can't, doesn't really have the words for saying that the person he saw was black.

• 1:30:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:34David Sims?

  So he was like you, but not, what's the word for runt?

• 1:30:38Speaker 03

  We don't need to do it, yeah.

• 1:30:40David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:42Griffin Newman?

  But yeah, no, it's, uh.

• 1:30:43David Sims?

  And just that, that moment where John Book, like, the, the hint of the Harrison smile.

• 1:30:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's great. It's so good.

• 1:30:48David Sims?

  Spreads across his face, like, I like this kid, you know, it's just so good.

• 1:30:53Griffin Newman?

  But it's, that's also a thing, we talk so much about how being good with kids is a thing that tends to, like, elevate a movie star to, like, legend status.

• 1:31:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:01Griffin Newman?

  Cause you kinda can't fake it.

• 1:31:02David Sims?

  Stumpig.

• 1:31:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:04Griffin Newman?

  And then you think, like, oh, he hasn't really interacted with children on screen up until this point.

• 1:31:10David Sims?

  Yeah, I guess so.

• 1:31:11Griffin Newman?

  As much as he has been a movie star beloved by little boys.

• 1:31:15Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:31:16Griffin Newman?

  And Peter Reiver talks about when he was.

• 1:31:17David Sims?

  We did just have Short Round.

• 1:31:19Griffin Newman?

  Oh, you're right. I'm sorry.

• 1:31:20David Sims?

  But that's, we gotta tip our hats of short.

• 1:31:21Griffin Newman?

  That's right before this.

• 1:31:23David Sims?

  Well.

• 1:31:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah. No, you're right. You're right. Uh, but that his introduction is, this kid is. Sitting here and Harrison Ford lowers himself into the frame.

• 1:31:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:33Griffin Newman?

  Right, that he gets down to the kid's eye level.

• 1:31:35Speaker 03

  That's it's some Princess Diana shit, you know?

• 1:31:37Griffin Newman?

  It does immediately set a different mood to his performance.

• 1:31:41Speaker 03

  It's just also like, it's a very primal heteronormative theme about, I'm about to say, but it makes him so hot. You know, it's just like this single, like this single hot guy who's just like, oh, and now I know instinctively how to like bond with this kid. I'm just like.

• 1:31:57Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:31:58Speaker 03

  Hello.

• 1:31:58David Sims?

  Here's the take, right, that I forgot. This is what I was gonna say. The whole thing that's the quiet thing in this movie is that he's a really angry guy.

• 1:32:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:05David Sims?

  And you see these moments, obviously the biggest being late in the movie when he punches the mean tourist guy, who by the way, fuck that guy.

• 1:32:11Speaker 03

  Fuck that guy.

• 1:32:12David Sims?

  Ice cream and the being mean and then they're like, whoa, this is bad for the industry if Amish start fighting back.

• 1:32:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, although there's probably someone on TikTok like espousing the values of the ice cream facial and doing this to themselves on purpose.

• 1:32:25David Sims?

  But there are these little moments where you're like, right, this guy's one thing is that like, and that's, this is why he's a cop. He's got this kind of like weird righteous streak, but there's like a rage to him.

• 1:32:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:36David Sims?

  And that's why it's so good for him to be on the farm.

• 1:32:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:39David Sims?

  And you can feel him kind of finding an equilibrium that he maybe doesn't have.

• 1:32:43Speaker 03

  Doesn't exactly cover himself in the, with glory in the first 15 minutes. The whole like, let's stop by a local Philly bar and just like, pull out some black guys that we know, you know, and try to arrest them. Not, not good.

• 1:32:54David Sims?

  Not by the book, no one could say. The guy's name is John Book, so that's really weird.

• 1:32:58Griffin Newman?

  Actually kind of ironic. Uh, isn't there a line in the movie where they invoke that he's trying to be a better father to his sister's kids?

• 1:33:06David Sims?

  Yes, they, they talk about all of this. Exactly. And that he's like a little afraid to have his own kids, right? There's that whole scene where Gillis lays him out a little bit.

• 1:33:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:33:16Griffin Newman?

  But like, we see, you know, it's a very circumstantial moment, but just. Him showing up and immediately fucking criticizing LaPone.

• 1:33:23Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:33:23Griffin Newman?

  For doing it wrong.

• 1:33:24David Sims?

  Right. LaPone rocking a full mullet? What's going on?

• 1:33:29Speaker 03

  It is. It is a full mullet. And what he's criticizing her for, not doing it wrong, is having a overnight visitor.

• 1:33:35Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:33:36Speaker 03

  While her two children are in the home, which, you know, I think single moms should get to do whatever they want.

• 1:33:42Griffin Newman?

  I'm not saying she's doing it wrong. He's acting like she's doing it wrong.

• 1:33:46Speaker 03

  He's policing. He's not doing a great job.

• 1:33:48Griffin Newman?

  He's policing her in a way that's really fucking judgy. There is a deleted scene that was part of the TV broadcast.

• 1:33:55David Sims?

  Uh, sure.

• 1:33:56Griffin Newman?

  That is five minutes of Kelly McGillis and Patty LaPone.

• 1:33:59David Sims?

  Sounds great.

• 1:34:00Griffin Newman?

  Where.

• 1:34:00Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:34:01Griffin Newman?

  Where.

• 1:34:01David Sims?

  Bring that to Broadway right now.

• 1:34:02Griffin Newman?

  Before Book comes and pulls them, right? Where she comes downstairs, Kelly McGillis, and Lucas Haas. She has three children, I think, or maybe it's only two. Lucas Haas is playing Donkey Kong with them, and there are like bowls of sugary cereal and like fucking radios blaring.

• 1:34:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:34:21Griffin Newman?

  And Kelly McGillis looks shocked. And then it cuts to Patty LaPone coming downstairs, and all three children are like scrubbing the kitchen like the Cinderella mice.

• 1:34:31Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:34:31Griffin Newman?

  And then Patty LaPone takes it as a judgment on her mothering, and they have this emotional connection. And it's like, not a bad scene at all. But you can see why we're cutting, because it's like saying the thing out loud over and over again.

• 1:34:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:34:45Griffin Newman?

  It has Patty LaPone like breaking down in tears and then saying.

• 1:34:48David Sims?

  And it's not as vital to the.

• 1:34:49Speaker 03

  And it's also like a little more like, you know, culture worry.

• 1:34:54Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:34:54Speaker 03

  As opposed to the, I find the way that the film judges John Book and like the modern values, you know, they, they fixate on the gun. And she's like, I don't want your gun in my house. This gun of the hand.

• 1:35:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:35:07Speaker 03

  You know, which is like an incredible turn of phrase. And like, that seems like. A valid concern and less judgy than being like, well, let me, let me think about how you're parenting. And like what your sugar content is, you know?

• 1:35:19Griffin Newman?

  And the scene ends with like Kelly McGillis have to, having to apologize.

• 1:35:22Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:35:23Griffin Newman?

  It, it's all like a little overstated.

• 1:35:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:35:26David Sims?

  And also we need to get to Amish country.

• 1:35:29Griffin Newman?

  You do.

• 1:35:29David Sims?

  And this movie does a pretty good job convincing you, it's more than a pretty good, it's a great screenplay.

• 1:35:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:35David Sims?

  Like giving you the chain of events that are like, you know what? He simply must hide out in Amish country with these people.

• 1:35:41Speaker 03

  Cause it's.

• 1:35:42David Sims?

  Because it's a little.

• 1:35:42Speaker 03

  Cause they're bad cops.

• 1:35:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:44David Sims?

  Yes. Cause it's bad cops. Cause he's himself, uh, you know, gets shot, like all this stuff.

• 1:35:49Griffin Newman?

  Lucas Haas, uh, is able to ID Danny Glover, uh, Ford goes to his chief.

• 1:35:57David Sims?

  He goes to, yeah, yeah. He's his boss, whoever, you know, who is Joseph Summer.

• 1:36:01Speaker 03

  Drugs are missing.

• 1:36:02Griffin Newman?

  Right. He's put the piece together, uh, the pieces together. He thinks he solved the whole case.

• 1:36:07David Sims?

  Joseph Summer, who's basically to me, just like German Ronnie Cox, you know what I mean?

• 1:36:12Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:36:12David Sims?

  Especially in the eighties. Being like, is this Ronnie Cox? No, it's not, but it could be.

• 1:36:16Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:36:17David Sims?

  And like that scene is so great because I'm immediately like, don't.

• 1:36:20Speaker 03

  Don't do it. As soon as he's like, let's just keep it, who else knows about this? Let's keep it between the two of us. And like, we've all been trained at this point. So then Danny Glover shows up in the, um.

• 1:36:31David Sims?

  In the parking garage.

• 1:36:32Speaker 03

  In the parking lot.

• 1:36:32David Sims?

  Shoot out.

• 1:36:33Speaker 03

  So there's a shootout, but the best part is the rich couple in the.

• 1:36:36David Sims?

  That's my car.

• 1:36:36Speaker 03

  That's my car.

• 1:36:37Griffin Newman?

  The elevator.

• 1:36:38Speaker 03

  The husband being like, you ain't even care. It's really funny.

• 1:36:43David Sims?

  What would you do if your car was getting shot up by Danny Glover in an, you know, inadvertent situation? Would, would you also, would you just quietly like door close it?

• 1:36:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:36:52David Sims?

  I don't know. I might have an initial like panic moment. I think you'd feel like it's real.

• 1:36:56Speaker 03

  Well, I, I mean, we've been taught in emergency situations to not get in the elevator. You know, that like, you don't want to be stuck in an elevator in a fire.

• 1:37:06David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:37:07Speaker 03

  So, and then you're trapped.

• 1:37:09David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:37:09Speaker 03

  So, and then also, you know, does that closed door, closed elevator button work? Is, you know, like I, I've been told it's an urban legend.

• 1:37:18David Sims?

  The time it's a placebo.

• 1:37:20Griffin Newman?

  Are the elevator doors bulletproof? I mean, there are many questions here.

• 1:37:24Speaker 03

  That is a great question that I wondered.

• 1:37:25David Sims?

  But you're not gonna walk out.

• 1:37:26Speaker 03

  But you, you know, you're not.

• 1:37:28David Sims?

  You're not gonna be like, you know what? Big old parking garage.

• 1:37:32Griffin Newman?

  No, but also maybe there's a universe in which I. Simultaneously hold down the closed door button and the basement button. So I'm like, doors closed, staying here in stasis.

• 1:37:43Speaker 03

  Oh, I don't know about that, but then you're worried about the, I think instinctively, I would just run back in and like, press every button that I could.

• 1:37:53David Sims?

  Yeah, I don't think calling a timeout is gonna work. Like, okay, hold up, let me just back the car out.

• 1:37:57Griffin Newman?

  Let me just get it out of here.

• 1:37:58David Sims?

  Yeah. Um, but yes.

• 1:38:00Griffin Newman?

  He immediately puts together, I only told one guy, clearly he's in on it. My top priority.

• 1:38:07David Sims?

  Basically no one I can trust except for Bosch.

• 1:38:09Griffin Newman?

  Witnesses out of here.

• 1:38:09David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:38:10Griffin Newman?

  Uh, so his, right, it is what is smart in the construction of this movie, is that he's not immediately saying, I gotta go hide out in Amish country.

• 1:38:19David Sims?

  No, that's the correct element, is that he's like, you guys stay here, I'm gonna go. That little mailbox-y thing, what is it, birdhouse? What is that thing?

• 1:38:26Griffin Newman?

  Let's try to not hit that and.

• 1:38:28David Sims?

  I definitely, mm.

• 1:38:31Griffin Newman?

  But he's, right, he's been shot, he's so caught up in his stoic thing that he's like, I gotta save them.

• 1:38:37Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:38:37Griffin Newman?

  Goes, drives them back, bleeding out.

• 1:38:39Speaker 03

  Happily, the serious infection that he gets from the bullet that is still in his body, does not take over until he has dropped them off.

• 1:38:49Griffin Newman?

  Perfect timing.

• 1:38:49Speaker 03

  In Amish country, you know, but it's like, once he's setting out on his own.

• 1:38:53Griffin Newman?

  Just in time to hit.

• 1:38:54Speaker 03

  Then the fever takes hold.

• 1:38:55Griffin Newman?

  The mailbox and nothing worse.

• 1:38:56Speaker 03

  Yeah. Is it, no, it's a birdhouse, but like, why do they need a birdhouse?

• 1:39:01Griffin Newman?

  For the birds.

• 1:39:02Speaker 03

  Sure, but like, why do the, so the, are the birds don't have to be playing also?

• 1:39:06David Sims?

  The whole thing, that's a good point.

• 1:39:08Griffin Newman?

  And inside that birdhouse, it is tech'd out.

• 1:39:11David Sims?

  The whole thing with the Amish, I understand that we probably have zero to one Amish listeners, because the Amish probably aren't listening to too many podcasts, right?

• 1:39:19Griffin Newman?

  And listener in Ram Springs, yeah.

• 1:39:22David Sims?

  You can listen to all the podcasts you wish.

• 1:39:26Griffin Newman?

  Father, I went through ten years of blank check in merely two weeks.

• 1:39:31David Sims?

  But one stereotype I obviously have about the Amish is that they're wonderful woodworkers and like,

• 1:39:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:36David Sims?

  like they, you know, there's this place near my home in Brooklyn where if your chair breaks and you give it to this guy, he sends it off to the Amish for them to fix it.

• 1:39:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:46David Sims?

  So I think that it's like, that's recreational, right? Like making a beautiful little birdhouse. It's like, eh, it, it's useful.

• 1:39:54Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:39:54David Sims?

  It's a practical enough item.

• 1:39:56Griffin Newman?

  To raise a barn every week, but you need projects every day.

• 1:40:00David Sims?

  Crafting this.

• 1:40:01Speaker 03

  I guess, but like, are the birds doing work for you?

• 1:40:04David Sims?

  Does it all have to be work?

• 1:40:06Speaker 03

  Well, that's kind of what it seems like.

• 1:40:08Griffin Newman?

  I like to imagine little Amish birds in there, building their own little tiny bug house.

• 1:40:13David Sims?

  They have.

• 1:40:15Speaker 03

  How are the, I am, I am anti-bird.

• 1:40:17David Sims?

  Laying plain eggs.

• 1:40:18Griffin Newman?

  Anti-bird in general.

• 1:40:19Speaker 03

  I don't like birds.

• 1:40:20Griffin Newman?

  I think birds are upsetting.

• 1:40:21David Sims?

  I don't, I mean, I respect the bird, the majestic bird, he who flies.

• 1:40:26Speaker 03

  I respect them.

• 1:40:27David Sims?

  I don't really want them in my house.

• 1:40:28Griffin Newman?

  I want fucking.

• 1:40:29Speaker 03

  I respect them, but.

• 1:40:30Griffin Newman?

  Safe distance.

• 1:40:30Speaker 03

  Because they are freaky and they're organized and they can rise up against.

• 1:40:37David Sims?

  Alright, dippy-hedron.

• 1:40:38Speaker 03

  Like, I mean Hitchcock, Hitchcock had it right, you know?

• 1:40:40Griffin Newman?

  Also, they're dinosaurs!

• 1:40:42David Sims?

  But that's not cool.

• 1:40:44Griffin Newman?

  That's a little scary.

• 1:40:46David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:40:46Speaker 03

  So, and, and they're just, they're talking to each other, they have patterns, like.

• 1:40:52Griffin Newman?

  They gossip to themselves. They gossip.

• 1:40:54David Sims?

  They're doing their own thing and you just get to perceive them just like.

• 1:40:58Griffin Newman?

  Fucking parrots.

• 1:40:59David Sims?

  Kind of walking around.

• 1:41:00Griffin Newman?

  Grilling some grubs.

• 1:41:01Speaker 03

  Also, you know, like everyone who's birding and is like, I once saw this like rarest form of bird that like I've never heard, like what's that about? You know, like where are all the other kinds?

• 1:41:13Griffin Newman?

  I'll say this, I actually, I'm almost envious. I wish I could structure my entire life around birding. When I hear birders talk about like.

• 1:41:21David Sims?

  Seems very relaxing.

• 1:41:22Griffin Newman?

  I wake up at 3 a.m. and I just stand in a field and I patiently wait to hear a call. I'm like, I'm, I wish that is all it took to make me feel happy.

• 1:41:30David Sims?

  I'm pretty far from being able to do something like that. Yeah, it's like, wow. I think I'd have to work on a lot of stuff to get to that.

• 1:41:38Griffin Newman?

  Hey, wake up, go outside.

• 1:41:41David Sims?

  Not use phone.

• 1:41:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:44David Sims?

  Because burning to me, right, it's like fishing. It's like one of those things where if like, if you get into it, it's like you're gonna be waking up when, when it dark.

• 1:41:50Griffin Newman?

  But isn't this kind of the Amish appeal, right?

• 1:41:52Speaker 03

  Well, like, they don't need a house.

• 1:41:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:54Speaker 03

  You know?

• 1:41:55David Sims?

  The birds? Are we back on the birds?

• 1:41:56Speaker 03

  The house is, is for nature.

• 1:41:58David Sims?

  Absolutely hung up we are.

• 1:42:00Griffin Newman?

  You're saying we should be-

• 1:42:01David Sims?

  Would the Amish make a house for birds?

• 1:42:04Griffin Newman?

  Well, but I know, it feels like, correct me if I'm wrong here, we're zooming out to a larger, why do birdhouses exist? Why we, the people are even making half measures?

• 1:42:13Speaker 03

  I would like to interrogate the internal logic of plainness as it relates to birdhouses and also.

• 1:42:20Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:42:21Speaker 03

  Now we've gotten here.

• 1:42:24Speaker 03

  Rachel gives John Book a jacket and then she's like, that has like eyes and hooks.

• 1:42:29David Sims?

  And eyes.

• 1:42:30Speaker 03

  No, they don't have buttons. Then every single man is wearing their shirt with a button.

• 1:42:35David Sims?

  It's interesting.

• 1:42:35Speaker 03

  Like, what's going, I'm just, I would like to-

• 1:42:37David Sims?

  But just one button?

• 1:42:38Speaker 03

  No, they're all buttoned down.

• 1:42:39David Sims?

  But I assumed it was the top layer. I assumed it was the jacket, the suit jacket part.

• 1:42:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, but so why, so the suit jackets can't have buttons, but the shirts can have buttons?

• 1:42:49David Sims?

  Hmm, I don't know. We're gonna need, listeners weigh in, or maybe I re-watch.

• 1:42:53Speaker 03

  And let me, let me be super clear here. This is not an indictment of the Amish.

• 1:42:58Griffin Newman?

  Right. You're interrogating the movie logic.

• 1:43:00Speaker 03

  I'm interrogating how the movie is communicating their beliefs to me and their way of life.

• 1:43:06Griffin Newman?

  See, I wonder, does his shirt have buttons?

• 1:43:09Speaker 03

  It does. I, because once I noticed this, they all, they have buttons. And what's the, um, the guy with the He-Man hair?

• 1:43:17Griffin Newman?

  That's good enough, right?

• 1:43:18David Sims?

  Alexander Goodenough.

• 1:43:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:19Griffin Newman?

  Who's more than good enough in this movie. He's great.

• 1:43:21David Sims?

  He's fantastic. I feel like after this, best known for Die Hard is the sort of-

• 1:43:25Griffin Newman?

  He is Carl in Die Hard.

• 1:43:26David Sims?

  Oh shit, yeah.

• 1:43:27Speaker 03

  He has buttons.

• 1:43:29Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:43:30Speaker 03

  And-

• 1:43:30David Sims?

  He died quite young.

• 1:43:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, and then, and then they don't really talk about this, but like, the use of color in the clothes.

• 1:43:37Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:43:37Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. Seems, you know, but, but some people do get to have like a green shirt or a blue shirt.

• 1:43:43David Sims?

  Spectrum, like, you know. And also that you can use natural dyes.

• 1:43:47Speaker 03

  True, true, true, true, but like-

• 1:43:49Griffin Newman?

  Natural tie-dyes.

• 1:43:51Speaker 03

  But it's supposed to be, it's supposed to be plain.

• 1:43:54Griffin Newman?

  Tight eye shirt. Yeah, I mean, my question was, are they saying like, you haven't earned buttons yet? You're back to like, peak plainness. You gotta work your way back up. In the same way, they're making him like, prove himself in the community. But, but they give him a button shirt from the beginning.

• 1:44:10Speaker 03

  I, yeah, they do.

• 1:44:12Griffin Newman?

  Okay. I have no answers here.

• 1:44:15David Sims?

  Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I just know that, you know, similar to the Hasidim or another, like, sort of group that gets a lot of blanket things, but there's like, you know, varying sects with varying levels, sort of, you know. They cross over in the train station.

• 1:44:29Speaker 03

  I know, that's, that's a nice moment where Samuel is like.

• 1:44:32David Sims?

  It's a really interesting moment. It is. And I think it's, yeah, it's well done because the guy doesn't look at him in a hostile way and Sam is, I mean, Samuel isn't completely upset about it, but it is kind of a like, right, same but different. What is this? Yeah, yeah. And like, yeah, I mean, there's so many things I could say about the Hasidim. Like, I'm so close to the Hasidim, right? Cause they're in my, like, they live in neighborhoods so close to me. And I'm seeing them all the time and I have all these complicated feelings about them. And then you watch a movie about the Amish and I know the Amish communities, it's like, there's sexual abuse that they're,

• 1:45:03Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:45:04David Sims?

  You know, have been, you can write, read about this, you know, that it's hard to deal with in these like mega religious communities. But then you watch this movie and you're like, ah, to be milking cows and working wood and like, that's what I need, you know?

• 1:45:15Griffin Newman?

  It's the burden thing. Like, would it be nice to be able to do this? I think also, it's what this movie gets really right. And why I think, one of the reasons they cut out that Lapone, Donkey Kong scene, is like, the humor is always, uh, that he's a little bit out of sorts, trying to coexist with them. Yes. It's never sort of the joke of like, what is this? You know, the joke's never at them.

• 1:45:42David Sims?

  No, it's not.

• 1:45:43Griffin Newman?

  Which I think is big. And also, there's so many moments.

• 1:45:45David Sims?

  More usually on him, but in a very, very gentle way of like, oh, English.

• 1:45:49Griffin Newman?

  Even the moment of him coming out in the full outfit for the first time, I'm like, this is so perfectly judged cause two degrees further, Harrison Ford looks silly.

• 1:46:00Griffin Newman?

  In a way that makes the movie broad.

• 1:46:02Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:46:02Griffin Newman?

  It's not even about the outfit, it's about the way he's wearing it and how much he's playing the discomfort of it.

• 1:46:07Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:46:07Griffin Newman?

  It's like, everything is just perfectly judged in this weird way.

• 1:46:11Speaker 03

  And, and also then she laughs.

• 1:46:13Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:46:14Speaker 03

  You know, so like, but, but she laughs in the.

• 1:46:17David Sims?

  She titters, she, yeah, exactly.

• 1:46:19Speaker 03

  Like, she tempers it as well, which kinda like signals to the audience, okay, like this, yeah, like this is a little funny, but we're not doing, you know, Amish drag.

• 1:46:28Griffin Newman?

  Broad first.

• 1:46:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:46:29David Sims?

  It's also, this is so tripe because we live in a silly country that sucks in so many ways.

• 1:46:34Griffin Newman?

  It's the first I'm hearing this.

• 1:46:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:46:36David Sims?

  But you also are like, yeah, man, that's kinda what America is, right? Some guys who are like, hey, we do a really specific thing, and their countries were like, yeah, fuck outta here, and they're like, we're gonna do it over here.

• 1:46:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:46:48David Sims?

  And America's like, alright, fucking, yeah, drive your buggy, alright, you know, like, and you're like, it's beautiful, it's weird, it's like, you know, I don't know.

• 1:46:56Griffin Newman?

  200 years later, you're like, everything else has changed, and everyone's like mashed into the same pot, where you're like, but we have different bars, and then you have these little sects of just like, we have refused to acknowledge.

• 1:47:06David Sims?

  Right, and they're jerks, but I feel like if you're in Lancaster, kinda those are the people like, yeah, yeah, they're, that's what they're, they're over there doing their thing.

• 1:47:13Griffin Newman?

  This is what I'm also saying though, I think this movie makes the case where you're like, I could see him staying. There is just enough tension, it's obviously very tied to.

• 1:47:22David Sims?

  We know so little of his life.

• 1:47:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:24David Sims?

  You can kind of read that in.

• 1:47:26Griffin Newman?

  But also, as you said, that his life doesn't seem to be going super well, and this guy's overcranked, and you're like, he does seem to be finding some kind of inner peace.

• 1:47:33Speaker 03

  I think the, the, the movie just has, has the tone and restraint so locked, that you get to a point where you're like, you think to yourself while watching it, in that scene, you're like, well, like, maybe he could stay.

• 1:47:47Griffin Newman?

  This is comfortable.

• 1:47:48Speaker 03

  And then two seconds later, you're like, no, because, obviously, like, he's not used to this lifestyle, you know, two weeks later, like, there's, there's like a lot of tensions, and like, you think through it, but you, like, you're carried away for a moment.

• 1:48:03Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:48:03Speaker 03

  And then you're like, no, we gotta acknowledge the reality of this situation, which, it's, which is hard. To modulate.

• 1:48:11Griffin Newman?

  Yes, I also think the sitcom plot version of this is like.

• 1:48:15David Sims?

  They're for richer or poorer, let's be honest.

• 1:48:17Griffin Newman?

  Being an Amish person fucking rules. I'm gonna stay here forever.

• 1:48:19Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:48:20Griffin Newman?

  Getting really bullish and then they're smacked down to earth and they learn their lesson. Versus all of it happening internally with this guy being so filtered through the tension and chemistry with this one woman.

• 1:48:31David Sims?

  To a moment and it's a moment where they're both sort of like, this has no future that isn't chaotic or sad or disruptive.

• 1:48:39Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 1:48:39Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna have to stay or you're gonna have to leave.

• 1:48:41David Sims?

  Right, and like, look, they are an Anabaptist community.

• 1:48:45Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 1:48:46David Sims?

  If Harrison, if John Book, Harrison Ford is John Book.

• 1:48:48Griffin Newman?

  Harrison Ford is John Book.

• 1:48:49David Sims?

  Wants to stay, he's gonna have to get baptized and accept Jesus Christ. Like, they don't, they're not just like, oh, you're like milking cows, hang out. They're like, we are all in on J C. Do you agree?

• 1:49:03Speaker 03

  The like, movie really does alight that, like, it's in the course.

• 1:49:08David Sims?

  Yes, I mean, they talk, the scene where the grandpa talks to him about the gun.

• 1:49:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:49:12David Sims?

  And talks about God in that way is so good.

• 1:49:15Speaker 03

  It's so good, but it does not say Jesus Christ. You see them, you see them praying before meals, but it's silent.

• 1:49:23Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:49:23Speaker 03

  Like, there, there is, it walks like a very fine cultural religious line of.

• 1:49:31Griffin Newman?

  Also, to the point of everything we're saying.

• 1:49:32David Sims?

  I get baptized.

• 1:49:34Griffin Newman?

  Is that stuff not in the movie, not because they're like avoiding it, but because that doesn't really benefit the story they're telling here?

• 1:49:41David Sims?

  Because it's not about a man in spiritual crisis.

• 1:49:44Griffin Newman?

  He's never gonna be tempted by.

• 1:49:46David Sims?

  Doesn't seem that way.

• 1:49:47Griffin Newman?

  The idea of what if you double down on J C?

• 1:49:49Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:49:50Griffin Newman?

  He's gonna be tempted on the day to day life aspect of it, not the theology.

• 1:49:54David Sims?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:49:55Speaker 03

  Totally, and also, and I think, and the, the, the basic mindset that underpins the day to day life as opposed to like the spiritual stuff.

• 1:50:05David Sims?

  It's also, it's kinda like, okay, you're gonna shack up with Rachel, right?

• 1:50:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:50:08David Sims?

  Welcome to the community. By the way, you met Joseph Summer, I mean, not Joseph, you know, you met grandpa?

• 1:50:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:14David Sims?

  You met Guttenoff, he's your age. It's kinda it, like, it's like fucking sixty people. Like, this isn't like a, you know.

• 1:50:20Griffin Newman?

  You're like, Vigo's fifth build, he has three lines. It's pretty small.

• 1:50:24David Sims?

  So what do you guys do all day? We fucking milk cows and shit. Once in a while, we raise a barn. Anything else? No, that's it. You go see movies? Not allowed.

• 1:50:32Griffin Newman?

  This is one of Vigo's, that sucks. That part sucks. I'm out.

• 1:50:39David Sims?

  Except what if you met an Amish kid who had done Rumspringa?

• 1:50:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:42David Sims?

  And he's just really locked in on like one year of movies?

• 1:50:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:45David Sims?

  Like that's all he knows? But anyways, sorry.

• 1:50:47Griffin Newman?

  Tron, I don't even know how to explain this.

• 1:50:50David Sims?

  Made perfect sense to me.

• 1:50:51Griffin Newman?

  Also, these kids are coming to visit your, uh, your country and they're telling you about the 4D movie they just saw about you that

• 1:50:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:50:58Griffin Newman?

  you can't see? That's fucking hell.

• 1:51:03Griffin Newman?

  No, I, I just, a lot of the reviews at the time, uh, I think trying to crack who Weir was as a filmmaker as he was so successfully making a transition. And especially because this is like him working as a four hired director for the first time, but knocks it out of the park. Gets a fucking best director nomination. It's a big hit. What is the through line? What is this guy's magic? They all kind of identified that Weir's big thing is the, the clash of two communities butting up against each other. Even if it isn't dramatic, even if it isn't an intense, uh, clash, the friction, right?

• 1:51:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:42Griffin Newman?

  And that I think is so informed by, and obviously in his early Australian films, it's very often textual. The like origins of Australia as a country.

• 1:51:51Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:51:51Griffin Newman?

  Right?

• 1:51:52Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 1:51:52Griffin Newman?

  This weird like combativeness of like, who are we and who are these other people and who belongs here more? And I think he's just so well, he, he's very well judged in knowing how to balance these things. And not using one side or the other as like, um, a story alley-oop, you know?

• 1:52:11Speaker 03

  He's also interested like in, in, like in a group of people who live by their own,

• 1:52:17Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:52:18Speaker 03

  their own code, their own world, who like, who are kind of removed from the world in some way or another, whether it's like, you know, like at a girl's school, just like in girl land.

• 1:52:28Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:52:29Speaker 03

  Or, uh, you know, stuck in, on a boat, stuck in like reality world, but like these people who are kind of closed off in some way or another from life as we know it.

• 1:52:40Griffin Newman?

  There are stats.

• 1:52:41Speaker 03

  And then he has a character that, um, That punctures that world.

• 1:52:46Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:52:47Speaker 03

  In, in most of the movies who like acts as the audience like surrogate.

• 1:52:51Griffin Newman?

  No, that's a great point.

• 1:52:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:52Griffin Newman?

  And whether the sects are like sort of self-formed or formed by like unified interest or passion.

• 1:52:58Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 1:52:59Griffin Newman?

  Or community or tradition or whatever it is, yes, there is almost always that.

• 1:53:05Speaker 03

  And, and he has like respect for that.

• 1:53:08Griffin Newman?

  That's the big part of it, which, which I think is like.

• 1:53:11Speaker 03

  It's not like, look at those weirdos.

• 1:53:13Griffin Newman?

  But I think that's a big byproduct of someone like growing up in Australia and really spending time litigating like as they grow up rather than absolving, you know, like what's going on here?

• 1:53:24David Sims?

  I want to shout out the Czech actor Jan Rubeš, I think is his name, who plays the grandpa, plays Eli.

• 1:53:30Griffin Newman?

  Was primarily an Amish person.

• 1:53:31David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:53:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:32David Sims?

  And he's so fucking good.

• 1:53:34Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:53:34David Sims?

  I mean, everyone in this movie playing Amish, you just, you don't bat an eye. You're just like, none of it feels like cosplay. You're just like, yeah, these are just guys. Vigo obviously only pops out because you're like, oh shit, it's Vigo, but Vigo's got an Amish look to him.

• 1:53:47Griffin Newman?

  That's the thing.

• 1:53:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:48Griffin Newman?

  He pops out because he's so striking looking, even if he didn't become Aragorn. But also he's striking in a way that fits perfectly into this film. He's human.

• 1:53:58Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 1:53:59David Sims?

  All right. I, um, I mean, I almost, I almost just took a deep breath.

• 1:54:05Speaker 03

  Derek is so angry. I was like, we're like two hours in and I was, I just started doing the, the tax. I'm sorry, that's also like reductive.

• 1:54:12David Sims?

  Aragorn is a man. He is, he is of the race of men. Now he is.

• 1:54:15Griffin Newman?

  In love with love Tyler.

• 1:54:17David Sims?

  True.

• 1:54:17Speaker 03

  And she's an elf. And then Cate Blanchett is the queen of the elves.

• 1:54:20Griffin Newman?

  Well, isn't she a different thing?

• 1:54:23Speaker 03

  Is she a tree person?

• 1:54:26Griffin Newman?

  Galadriel.

• 1:54:28David Sims?

  I'm just letting you guys get this out of your system before. So just, um, yeah, Galadriel is an elf. Of course she, she's in, um, Rivendell and.

• 1:54:37Griffin Newman?

  High Council.

• 1:54:38Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:54:39David Sims?

  Uh, or wait, is Galadriel in, Jesus, like. This is where, like, my whole thing with Lord of the Rings is like, I'm relatively read in on Lord of the Rings, but not in the way that, you know, with people who are truly read in, right? It's like you've read the Bible.

• 1:54:51Speaker 03

  Our screaming right now, yeah.

• 1:54:53Griffin Newman?

  Trolling listeners yelling at us, but I feel like she's not Rivendell, because isn't Rivendell Hugo Weavingstone?

• 1:54:57David Sims?

  No, no, yeah, so that's what I always forget. So, so, um, she's in Laflorian.

• 1:55:01Griffin Newman?

  There we go.

• 1:55:02David Sims?

  She's more of what you would call, like, I think, a wood elf or whatever, and Elrond, who is in Rivendell, is more of what you'd call a high elf. Those are more D and D terms. I shouldn't really use them. Just to say about Aragorn, he is man. He is a man.

• 1:55:15Griffin Newman?

  He's a man.

• 1:55:16David Sims?

  He's from the race of men.

• 1:55:17Griffin Newman?

  He's all man, if you know what I'm saying.

• 1:55:20David Sims?

  But he is descended from the Duna Dane, also known as the Numenorians, who in Lord of the Rings are kind of like, slightly more magic-y men. It's why he's very old. Aragorn is like already in Lord of the Rings. He's almost 100 years old.

• 1:55:33Griffin Newman?

  What?

• 1:55:34David Sims?

  Again, the movie does not touch on these things because Peter Jackson wisely was like, "My audience will say what."

• 1:55:40Griffin Newman?

  Also, the fucking age gap this far is?

• 1:55:43David Sims?

  Well, no, Arwen is like hundreds of years old.

• 1:55:45Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:55:45David Sims?

  She's an elf.

• 1:55:46Griffin Newman?

  I repeat, except now I'm flipping the dynamic. Arwen fucking cradled Robin?

• 1:55:52David Sims?

  Arwen is, I think, 240-ish.

• 1:55:55Griffin Newman?

  Okay, go off, queen.

• 1:55:56David Sims?

  Uh, and lives-

• 1:55:58Speaker 03

  How long, what is the lifespan of an elf?

• 1:55:59David Sims?

  She lives about 3,000 years.

• 1:56:01Speaker 03

  3,000? Oh, okay, so-

• 1:56:03David Sims?

  That's why the whole thing in Lord of the-

• 1:56:04Griffin Newman?

  She's very young, too.

• 1:56:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, so there's no age gap.

• 1:56:07David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:56:07Griffin Newman?

  So, relative, but relative-

• 1:56:08Speaker 03

  If you're going by experience, see?

• 1:56:10Griffin Newman?

  Okay, but what would Aragorn's life expectancy be?

• 1:56:13David Sims?

  Uh, I'm gonna Google this just because I'm not totally sure, but he dies at the age of 210. And he's about, he's about 90 in Lord of the Rings.

• 1:56:20Griffin Newman?

  So in that case, he's kind of middle-aged and she's kind of a teenager within their lifespan?

• 1:56:25David Sims?

  I, so you know what? Back on Aragorn. What are you up to, buddy? No, I think it's, you know, but that's what Lord of the Rings, look, the whole thing-

• 1:56:33Speaker 03

  How old are the tree people?

• 1:56:34Griffin Newman?

  Great question. I love how often you bring up the tree people, Amanda.

• 1:56:37David Sims?

  What the fuck are they called again?

• 1:56:38Speaker 03

  I learned about them like three weeks ago.

• 1:56:40Griffin Newman?

  They rule.

• 1:56:41David Sims?

  Wait, but you surely have seen Lord of the Rings?

• 1:56:44Speaker 03

  I did. I think I saw them in college. They did like a back-to-back before. Return of the King is the third one and the Oscar winner, right? So I saw two and three together, like, in a theater, and-

• 1:56:55Griffin Newman?

  Two's the tree-heavy one.

• 1:56:57David Sims?

  Two is, Two Towers is heavy on Ents.

• 1:56:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I have read The Hobbit, and, um-

• 1:57:04Speaker 03

  And I, I have retained absolutely nothing. Like you, I just, my brain will never hold on to them.

• 1:57:11David Sims?

  Totally fine. And again, like as a nerd who is-

• 1:57:13Speaker 03

  It's like my avatar.

• 1:57:15David Sims?

  Yeah, totally. Your brain just, right, it turns on. Um, like, but, uh, just, just, you know, the whole thing with, um, Aragorn and Arwen is that in Lord of the Rings, the book, that is mostly buried in appendixes. And that was Peter Jackson being like, I fucking, we need some fucking ladies in these movies. You know what I mean? Like, the books are just so light on women.

• 1:57:35Griffin Newman?

  Oh, the romance is not-

• 1:57:36David Sims?

  It's in the appendices.

• 1:57:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:39David Sims?

  But like, that's not, that's why in the movie, whenever they drop in with it, you are kind of like, what's up? Like, cause it is just occasionally, they'll just sort of be like, FYI, I do love you, live Tyler, you are immortal and I am mortal. So I know that's kind of an issue. Anyway, I'll see you later. I have to go get this ring over to another place, right? You know? And it's like, I think Peter Jackson was just striving to like broaden out as much as he could to include some ladies.

• 1:58:02Griffin Newman?

  I do remember, uh, the first movie comes out, I was, uh, 12.

• 1:58:07David Sims?

  Yeah, I was, uh, what's it, 2001, I was 15. So yeah, you were 12.

• 1:58:10Griffin Newman?

  Uh, and I didn't read the books until after I saw the first movie.

• 1:58:13David Sims?

  You read all three books?

• 1:58:15Griffin Newman?

  I think I read, I read Hobbit and maybe through Two Towers. I think I never read Return of the King. But I, uh, was very in on the first movie. But I remember being very confused by how prominent Blanchett and Tyler were in the marketing. And then seeing the movie and being like, they both have tiny parts. And now I get it where they were just like, we need to message to people that this isn't some fucking high fantasy sausage party.

• 1:58:39David Sims?

  JR Tolkien was like, you know, he wasn't like big on like the interiority of ladies.

• 1:58:44Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:58:45Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:58:45David Sims?

  You know?

• 1:58:46Speaker 03

  The, the romance in the appendices is the most, you know,

• 1:58:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:50Speaker 03

  boy shit I've ever heard in my life.

• 1:58:52David Sims?

  It's a little boy shit. I mean, Lord of the Rings is kind of the definition of, of boy stuff.

• 1:58:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:58:56David Sims?

  And like, you know, that's what that show, uh, the Amazon show that everyone loves, that's universally popular.

• 1:59:01Griffin Newman?

  Our favorite show.

• 1:59:02David Sims?

  Right. And, and Inexpensive.

• 1:59:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:04David Sims?

  Um, produced-

• 1:59:05Griffin Newman?

  A burger in it, 10 times the price.

• 1:59:07Speaker 03

  Never seen it.

• 1:59:08David Sims?

  Uh, that one tries to, you know, have a younger Galadriel as its main character, I think, cause they, again, they're conscious of like, we should- You know, try to mine.

• 1:59:16Griffin Newman?

  Isn't that the success that it does feel like Peter Jackson made films that were disproportionately popular with women relative to the books at that time?

• 1:59:23David Sims?

  It's the miracle of those movies.

• 1:59:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:26David Sims?

  Like, people now are just like, yeah, of course, Lord of the Rings. It's like, no, no, no. He really put the camel through the eye of the needle with those things.

• 1:59:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:32David Sims?

  Those books are not easy to adapt.

• 1:59:35Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:59:35David Sims?

  They're books.

• 1:59:36Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:59:37David Sims?

  You know, and like, and it's just a lot of information, and he kind of just always picked and chose what you need to know and what you don't. You know, and what Stephen Colbert can fill in for you later, right?

• 1:59:46Griffin Newman?

  And then he did it perfectly again. Three more knocked out.

• 1:59:49David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:59:50Griffin Newman?

  Makes sense to everybody.

• 1:59:54David Sims?

  I'd love to do those movies one day.

• 1:59:56Griffin Newman?

  Same.

• 1:59:56David Sims?

  I do love them, and I even defend the hobbits for their sense. God, how long would the episode be, though?

• 2:00:02Griffin Newman?

  Hmm.

• 2:00:02David Sims?

  I think a tight ninety.

• 2:00:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. The original or the extended cut?

• 2:00:06David Sims?

  Ninety weeks long.

• 2:00:08Griffin Newman?

  Then we would have to do two cuts of each episode.

• 2:00:11David Sims?

  Jesus, okay. Wow, my goodness. Something to look forward to. So, Witness.

• 2:00:16Griffin Newman?

  Can we talk about the central?

• 2:00:18David Sims?

  Moments of Witness?

• 2:00:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was gonna say, can we talk about this damn cook scene? Can we talk about Harrison Ford dancing?

• 2:00:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:24Speaker 03

  How many other times has Harrison Ford danced on film?

• 2:00:26David Sims?

  Good question.

• 2:00:27Speaker 03

  I cannot think of it off.

• 2:00:31David Sims?

  He does the Lombardi in Frantic. No, I don't.

• 2:00:34Speaker 03

  Uh, no, he does like a half shuffle in Working Girl at the wedding that they crash.

• 2:00:41David Sims?

  Working Girl, one of his sort of loosest, most sort of.

• 2:00:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, because, you know, he's gotta dance with like Bitsy or something in order to let Tess talk to Orin Trask. Orin Hask, wait, who was a senator and who is the character in Working Girl?

• 2:00:56David Sims?

  Oh, okay, one second, one second, one second.

• 2:00:58Speaker 03

  Uh, Orin Trask.

• 2:01:00Griffin Newman?

  There we go.

• 2:01:01David Sims?

  Orin Trask is Philip Bosco in Working Girl.

• 2:01:03Speaker 03

  Right, and Orin Hatch was a senator in politics that I didn't like, right?

• 2:01:07David Sims?

  He was the Utah senator who would occasionally like, do like, songs about eagles soaring as well. Right, he had like a kind of a.

• 2:01:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, one of those.

• 2:01:15Griffin Newman?

  David, did you just discover the exact same thing I did?

• 2:01:17David Sims?

  That Harrison Ford, in fact, does dance to Grace Jones.

• 2:01:20Griffin Newman?

  In Witness.

• 2:01:21David Sims?

  In Frantic.

• 2:01:22Griffin Newman?

  I'm pregnant, yes.

• 2:01:23Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 2:01:23Griffin Newman?

  With Emmanuel Singi.

• 2:01:25David Sims?

  Now, I will say, in this clip that I'm watching, I don't know if you're watching it, Griffin, he looks really stressed out, which is, of course, the vibe of frantic in general, that he's kind of frantic.

• 2:01:34Griffin Newman?

  Yes, right. This is him looking, yeah, absolutely about to lose his fucking mind.

• 2:01:39David Sims?

  Doesn't he dance in Temple of Doom in the opening? Well, there's the big musical sequence, but I don't think of him as being involved in that. He's at the table.

• 2:01:46Speaker 03

  He's watching.

• 2:01:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:47David Sims?

  Uh, does he dance in the Sabrina remake? That's a movie I've never seen, but it feels like there could be a dance there.

• 2:01:53Speaker 03

  But isn't he?

• 2:01:54Griffin Newman?

  I'm seeing here.

• 2:01:55Speaker 03

  Who else is in?

• 2:01:56Griffin Newman?

  Him, slow dancing with Julia or mom, but it might be a very minimal.

• 2:02:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's also like, slow dancing, you can just like step back and forth. He's doing some twirls in this, like, he's acknowledging the rhythm?

• 2:02:10Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Good call.

• 2:02:11Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:02:11David Sims?

  Oh, he gets down and called the wild. He busts one. Oh, yeah. And in K-19, The Widowmaker, there's the, uh, the choreographed dancing scene. Yeah, right. There was so much space for those guys to really, you know, move around.

• 2:02:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:25David Sims?

  Uh, I don't know, Cowboys and Aliens, did he dance in that?

• 2:02:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, let's run through every credit. I'm being funny.

• 2:02:31David Sims?

  This is certainly, look, Empire Magazine, I invoke it a lot at this time, they used to have at the back page

• 2:02:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:37David Sims?

  an iconic scene.

• 2:02:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:38David Sims?

  And it would just be dialogue from the iconic scene. It would be, you know, it was kind of like a, their way of a clip of an iconic scene, right? And usually it would be something, it was very dialogue heavy.

• 2:02:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:48David Sims?

  Fucking, you know, something from a Kevin Smith movie, right? You know what I mean? Something that was like.

• 2:02:52Griffin Newman?

  With an icon.

• 2:02:54David Sims?

  And then I remember one time they did this scene. I hadn't seen Witness yet, and it's basically just explaining a scene where they danced to a Sam Cooke song. So it didn't pop in terms of dialogue, per se.

• 2:03:03Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:03:04David Sims?

  But it was stuck in my head where I was like, wow, that scene must rock. If they were like, put it on the back page even though it's not funny. And then I watched the movie and I was like, yeah, like, this is one of the, like, it's like the perfect level of like aching romance, not to, I mean, just the right amount of charm, right amount of goofiness.

• 2:03:23Speaker 03

  And I, you know, the, the editing where they like pa- there are a couple of moments where they stop and they're like looking at each other. And, you know, everyone is just like, oh my God, the world's, you know, everything's about to explode. And then they laugh again. I was also trying, there's a smile and laugh that Harrison Ford does sort of at the end of it that is like. Goofy and sincere and maybe the only time I've seen him.

• 2:03:50Griffin Newman?

  Deflate himself in that way?

• 2:03:52Speaker 03

  But like normally he is self-deprecating and like a little ironic and like undercutting himself.

• 2:03:59Griffin Newman?

  But that's.

• 2:04:00Speaker 03

  And like a little wry.

• 2:04:01Griffin Newman?

  That stuff does quietly only amp up his high status.

• 2:04:05Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so, but this is just kind of like he's, he's laughing. He's like, I just, you know, I was dancing and like being sweet. And it's a really, really, really big smile.

• 2:04:16Griffin Newman?

  It deflates him in that it makes him human.

• 2:04:18Speaker 03

  That's wonderful.

• 2:04:19Griffin Newman?

  That's so much of Harrison Ford's thing is playing everything very close to the chest. And in that moment, you're like, this guy isn't holding anything back anymore.

• 2:04:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:26Griffin Newman?

  It feels like he is just present, transparent with her.

• 2:04:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:04:29Griffin Newman?

  Uh, he's so fucking, uh, good.

• 2:04:32David Sims?

  He is? And, uh, that song's pretty good too.

• 2:04:34Griffin Newman?

  I love him so much.

• 2:04:36Speaker 03

  So.

• 2:04:37David Sims?

  Why don't you marry John Book then?

• 2:04:39Griffin Newman?

  I would. No, I just like, uh, anytime we get to cover a Harrison Ford movie on this podcast, you do like, especially at his peak, you're just like, one of the best to ever do it in that exact way that is always kind of taken for granted in its time, even when he is basically like carrying half of the industry on his back. There was a thing, I was watching all the stuff on the excellent Arrow 4K set. But John Seal, legendary, uh, DP. This was his first, uh, time working with Weir, not his last.

• 2:05:11David Sims?

  That's what I was about to say with Harrison. We're about to do tomorrow, record Mosquito Coast, which is our next episode as well. Which is right Harrison really pointedly trying to be like, I won't be charming Harrison Ford. I am going to take you into darkness.

• 2:05:26Griffin Newman?

  Well, we'll talk about all that.

• 2:05:27David Sims?

  And it's the big debate of that movie of like, right, is he the guy for that?

• 2:05:30Griffin Newman?

  Right. And I think he corrects afterwards and is like, I went too far. Audiences just don't want that from me. And he doesn't really try anything like that again.

• 2:05:37David Sims?

  Or he'll play flawed guys, but not right then.

• 2:05:40Griffin Newman?

  But John Book becomes kind of the range of like where you can go before people start to reject what he's, uh, doing. Uh, but the, the great John Seal was talking about how, um, visually this movie is very inspired by like Vermeer and the Dutch masters.

• 2:05:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:05:55Griffin Newman?

  In the use of light and, you know, having. Having scenes lit by the sun through the window without trying to be too controlled and painterly about it.

• 2:06:05Speaker 03

  There are a couple, that scene when he is like in having his literal fever dream and she is sitting there watching him. And she like, that is a recreation of it, not a recreation, but that is like framed and lit, you know, lit in such a way that it was like, oh, right. I also too, you know, read The Goldfinch or whatever.

• 2:06:24Griffin Newman?

  The early sort of sitting and grief.

• 2:06:26Speaker 03

  That was Dutch Masters, right?

• 2:06:27David Sims?

  Yeah, absolutely. Of course. And a movie that was electrifying.

• 2:06:31Speaker 03

  I was so mad.

• 2:06:33David Sims?

  That movie kept me so awake, Griffin.

• 2:06:36Griffin Newman?

  The most awake.

• 2:06:37David Sims?

  I was so very awake throughout.

• 2:06:40Griffin Newman?

  They made one mistake at the box office with that film, which was not titling it Caffeine the Movie.

• 2:06:48Griffin Newman?

  Goldfinch, what is this?

• 2:06:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:50Griffin Newman?

  You call it Caffeine the Movie, everyone would have showed up and they would have left happy and awake.

• 2:06:54David Sims?

  So awake.

• 2:06:55Griffin Newman?

  But John Seal talks about working really fast, right? That he likes boxing himself in, that he likes, likes being instinctual. And he also feels he could get better results out of the actors because they don't have to sit around and wait. That he's very collaborative in that sense.

• 2:07:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:08Griffin Newman?

  Haile Pone was talking about being someone who also graduated from Royal Yard and then was doing TV and film and was like, this sucks. They call me to set and then there's another fucking 40 minutes of adjustment. I'm losing my flow. I'm losing my energy.

• 2:07:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:07:22Griffin Newman?

  And that she was like, this set rules, that Harrison Ford is all brass tacks and loves it. And they were like motoring each other, right? And he said, I really try not to direct actors in a way that some other DPs will, where they'll jump in and be like, if you could just do this.

• 2:07:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:40Griffin Newman?

  It would help my shot.

• 2:07:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:07:43Griffin Newman?

  Not like character motivation directing like Weird does, but the sort of like, is there any way you can do this five inches higher? Or 30% faster or whatever it is. And he said, I try not to do that, but Harrison, the term he used, Harrison has such good motor skills. That I would go Harrison and he would just go, just tell me what it is and I'll do it. Like, forget the chuff, huh?

• 2:08:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:08:08Griffin Newman?

  If it's this and this, and he goes, "Got it," and then he would do it perfectly, however many times he needed it.

• 2:08:13David Sims?

  I mean, no wonder they

• 2:08:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08:14Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:08:15David Sims?

  You know, work together again.

• 2:08:16Speaker 03

  But as you say that now, like, I think about, I mean, the way Harrison Ford moves in movie, you know, like, and

• 2:08:21Griffin Newman?

  Yep.

• 2:08:22Speaker 03

  Suddenly, he's like spinning around, or suddenly, he's over here. He does seem to have like a real sense of not just where the camera is, but where he needs to, it's, it's a gift.

• 2:08:31Griffin Newman?

  Motor skills was a perfect way of putting it, because I'm like, I, I get that he is a great visual storyteller, that he understands that part of his job as an actor is how to carry the audience through the story. I understand that he has incredible screen presence and understanding of the medium and how to pop on it, but motor skills is like, right, that's not even like

• 2:08:49Speaker 03

  It's like movie athleticism.

• 2:08:51Griffin Newman?

  Right, and he was like, it's not something he like learned, it's not something he was trained to do, it's truly just, he's actually built in a way that makes him better at processing that. And they were saying that like he was really fucking nervous at the beginning of filming the movie, that he hadn't made that many films, that he was not seen as a serious actor, that the movies he was in had so much spectacle around them, that this was the first real test of like, "You are the thing the whole time."

• 2:09:19David Sims?

  And he's beautiful, yeah.

• 2:09:20Griffin Newman?

  And up until this point, every movie he had been a part of, people were like, "Well, that's the magic of Spielberg, that's the magic of Lucas," or Blade Runner didn't work, right? That same morning daytime interview, the woman's like, "Is there any movie of yours that you want to apologize for?" And he's like, you know, "Not every movie works, but you try your best," and she was like, "Interesting, because I thought you were gonna say Blade Runner."

• 2:09:43David Sims?

  My goodness.

• 2:09:44Griffin Newman?

  And you're like, "Right," at this moment in time, people were like, Blade Runner was black Adam for him, that it was like the stain on his career, but that he felt like

• 2:09:53David Sims?

  Do you like Blade Runner, Amanda? It does not feel like a huge Amanda movie.

• 2:09:56Speaker 03

  And it's, you know, I'm more of an Alien person than Blade Runner in the Ridley Scott canon for sure. Um, I'm maybe even more of a House of Gucci person than that, but you know, I, I, I live in Los Angeles, and there is like a certain type of There's a certain type of weather, or day, or even building, where I'm just like, "Oh, it's Blade Runner."

• 2:10:17Griffin Newman?

  It's Blade Runner.

• 2:10:18Speaker 03

  Hours, and it's, I mean, the visual

• 2:10:22Speaker 03

  Like, language of it. It's also is one of those things where it's like, you learned the way, you learned that visual look before you saw the movie for people of our generation. Like, it just invented it. So, yeah, I admire it. Like, do I fire it up and sit through the whole thing?

• 2:10:40David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:10:41Speaker 03

  No, but, you know, whatever.

• 2:10:43Griffin Newman?

  I'm the same as you where it has never been one of my movies. Every couple of years, I'll throw on a cut and give it another shot, and I always respect it more than I love it. And yet, I think about it constantly.

• 2:10:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. I am also, like, Sean Young is a real, uh, pain point for me.

• 2:10:58Griffin Newman?

  I have a similar, I'm a little allergic to her.

• 2:11:03David Sims?

  I'm a little allergic to Sean Young too, but not in Blade Runner where she works as.

• 2:11:07Speaker 03

  She works as it, yeah. But it's like, I still am watching it. Like, I think I'm like, still so mad about No Way Out, which I know chronologically comes after.

• 2:11:16David Sims?

  Several years later.

• 2:11:17Speaker 03

  Several years later, but it's like where I started with Sean Young. And I'm just like, this is, I'm gonna lose my mind. And then, uh, then I'm just watching her and I'm just like, please, come on.

• 2:11:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah. That feeling of like, growing, being a 90s kid, and then discovering the 80s Sean Young canon and being like, how did this happen? How did she get so big and work in every genre?

• 2:11:42Speaker 03

  I mean, she has a presence.

• 2:11:43Griffin Newman?

  She does.

• 2:11:44Speaker 03

  And there is, like, in No Way Out, you need something, you need a loose canon, you know?

• 2:11:49Griffin Newman?

  She certainly has that.

• 2:11:50Speaker 03

  You need something off kilter.

• 2:11:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Um, yeah.

• 2:11:53Speaker 03

  I don't know, I'm not being very feminist, but anyway, yeah, Blade Runner, they did good.

• 2:11:57Griffin Newman?

  But I think like Kelly McGillis, because, uh, Top Gun is such a silly part, and is such a Tom Cruise vehicle, and she exists just to serve him. And then The Accused is a movie where it's just like, well, Jodie Foster completely takes control of that, right?

• 2:12:12David Sims?

  She's the story of the movie, for sure.

• 2:12:14Griffin Newman?

  And Kelly McGillis was offered. That part first.

• 2:12:16David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:12:17Griffin Newman?

  And she was like, I think it's more interesting to do this.

• 2:12:20David Sims?

  She's good in the accused. Yeah, she's top.

• 2:12:21Griffin Newman?

  And then it's like, everyone forgets. It's just Jodie Foster fucking sweeps the awards.

• 2:12:26David Sims?

  And it is, it's Jodie Foster's star moment too. It's like, you know, Jodie Foster, obviously, right? Her, her career is explosive. She's good.

• 2:12:32Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:12:33David Sims?

  Jodie Foster's a good actress.

• 2:12:34Griffin Newman?

  Uh, very good actress, but I think Kelly McGee is, is kind of like, history doesn't give her enough credit. This is the one you watch. She got both a Globe and a BAFTA nomination.

• 2:12:45David Sims?

  For this?

• 2:12:45Griffin Newman?

  But the whole reason she doesn't get an Oscar nomination is apparent in looking at, I think the Globes nominated her in supporting and BAFTA nominated her in lead.

• 2:12:54David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:54Griffin Newman?

  And I have to imagine this is a performance that got caught.

• 2:12:57David Sims?

  But I imagine they may have run her in supporting because she was new, right? Like the classic.

• 2:13:02Griffin Newman?

  Didn't pick a side and so she didn't have enough.

• 2:13:04Speaker 03

  Is that Terms of Endearment?

• 2:13:06David Sims?

  Um, no. So 85 is, I mean, it's a movie you love. We all love it. It's the movie of, it's the best movie of all time. It's called Out of Africa.

• 2:13:14Speaker 03

  Oh, shit.

• 2:13:15David Sims?

  I mean, Red forgot the last laugh, I suppose.

• 2:13:17Griffin Newman?

  William Hurt beats Ford?

• 2:13:19David Sims?

  Um, so William Hurt beats Ford for Kiss of the Spider Woman.

• 2:13:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:22Speaker 03

  Oh, sure.

• 2:13:23David Sims?

  And, uh, yeah, it's, I mean, it's kind of a bad Oscar year. It's the color purple year.

• 2:13:29Speaker 03

  Ah.

• 2:13:30David Sims?

  And, uh, you know, you could argue for that in best actress or whatever, but no, we had to take the trip to Mount of all.

• 2:13:36Griffin Newman?

  Whoopi should have won.

• 2:13:38David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:13:38Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:13:39David Sims?

  Uh, and then our Out of Africa kind of sweeps the text. Witness wins editing and screenplay, which are two very sensible wins for it because it's such a like well-constructed, efficient, you know, hour, 40-minute movie. Well, no, it's more than an hour. We're like, oh, close, hour 55. Yeah. But like, you know what I mean? Like where you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Out of Africa gets all the big sumptuous like scores, cinematography, art direction, you know, all that shit. And then they just hand out these odd for acting Oscars. William Hurt, Donna Michie, Geraldine Page, and then Angelica Huston in Pritzy's Honor, which I have said before, is a performance where you're like, oh, did Huston pop off? And you watch it and you're like, I mean, she's fine.

• 2:14:17Speaker 03

  She's fine.

• 2:14:17David Sims?

  She's all right.

• 2:14:18Griffin Newman?

  But it was this, like, sort of like Silence the Haters win where they were like.

• 2:14:22David Sims?

  Yeah, she told her dad she was gonna do it and she did it.

• 2:14:25Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:14:25David Sims?

  Even though he didn't like her.

• 2:14:26Griffin Newman?

  Donna Michie, I also like.

• 2:14:28David Sims?

  It was like a career win.

• 2:14:30Griffin Newman?

  For the first time, I was like, that's the fourth performance I would nominate in supporting actor out of this movie.

• 2:14:37David Sims?

  But like, it's another weird one of like, no one else up for the award is that.

• 2:14:43Griffin Newman?

  It obviously should have been Chris. For Lloyd, Back to the Future. That should have been his Oscar year.

• 2:14:47David Sims?

  Sure, absolutely. I mean, who do I have?

• 2:14:49Speaker 03

  This is a weird year.

• 2:14:50Griffin Newman?

  Is this the same year as Karate Kid, where they nominate Pat Morita?

• 2:14:54David Sims?

  No.

• 2:14:54Griffin Newman?

  No, okay.

• 2:14:55David Sims?

  The nominees for supporting actor, if you must know.

• 2:14:57Griffin Newman?

  I must.

• 2:14:58David Sims?

  Cost Maria Brendor, they're out of Africa.

• 2:14:59Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 2:15:01David Sims?

  William Hickey in Pritzy's Honor, he's a billion years old, you know, hat tip.

• 2:15:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:05David Sims?

  Robert, Robert Loja in Jagged Edge.

• 2:15:07Speaker 03

  Who is he in Jagged Edge?

• 2:15:09David Sims?

  Plays a subtle and restrained guy.

• 2:15:11Speaker 03

  Wait, wait, who is he?

• 2:15:13David Sims?

  Robert Loja?

• 2:15:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:14David Sims?

  I have not seen Jagged Edge in many years.

• 2:15:16Speaker 03

  I know, I'm like reading, okay, who is he? Look, let's look at that thing.

• 2:15:18David Sims?

  He plays Sam Ransom.

• 2:15:20Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:15:21David Sims?

  I don't know.

• 2:15:22Speaker 03

  Um, he's a private detective.

• 2:15:25David Sims?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:15:25Speaker 03

  Okay, as he...

• 2:15:28Griffin Newman?

  I guarantee you he yells a lot.

• 2:15:30Speaker 03

  The only thing I honestly remember about Jagged Edge is that Jeff Bridges' house is like, kind of my dream house.

• 2:15:35Griffin Newman?

  Interesting.

• 2:15:35Speaker 03

  So, and he does look very handsome. It's, it's, it's a beautiful, like, Spanish-style home.

• 2:15:41David Sims?

  Sure.

• 2:15:41Speaker 03

  Um...

• 2:15:42David Sims?

  You're saying about a throw, throw on the edge?

• 2:15:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:44Griffin Newman?

  Take it to the edge?

• 2:15:45David Sims?

  Yeah, call me Bono.

• 2:15:47Griffin Newman?

  You're gonna get that.

• 2:15:47Speaker 03

  Anyway.

• 2:15:48David Sims?

  I gotta find the edge. And Eric Robertson, Runaway Train, great performance.

• 2:15:52Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:15:53David Sims?

  Very, uh, big performance in that movie. That's a big movie.

• 2:15:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:57David Sims?

  But, you know, it does kind of feel like they went to Donna Meach, she just kind of like, well, I guess he's a legend, right? He's old.

• 2:16:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:04David Sims?

  Those old people, you know, like, it's, it's a year of, out of Africa, and like, though, these old, like Geraldine Page, Donna, like, it does not feel like a year where the youngs are like, pumped up by the Oscars.

• 2:16:14Griffin Newman?

  Eighties acting wins, more so than any other decade, have a ton of that, where, like, things where, as a fifteen-year-old...

• 2:16:21David Sims?

  We're cleaning up, you know, mistakes of the fifties.

• 2:16:25Griffin Newman?

  A fifteen-year-old trying to, like, fill in Oscar gaps, and I'm watching these movies and being like, that performance won? And then you go to Wikipedia and you're like, oh, it won because of shit from forty years earlier.

• 2:16:34Speaker 03

  I mean, even this being like, the Sidney Pollack coronation.

• 2:16:38Griffin Newman?

  Very bizarre.

• 2:16:38Speaker 03

  Is, is really lame.

• 2:16:40David Sims?

  It's, it's just the wrong movie for me. That movie stinky.

• 2:16:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:16:43Griffin Newman?

  I don't want to get away from the horniness of of Witness because I feel like we need to let we need to fully explore this a little bit. Can you talk about Harrison Ford is like your ultimate?

• 2:16:52Speaker 03

  I think he's probably the hottest.

• 2:16:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:54Speaker 03

  I like, I mean, you know, like the last solid dude. Um, and and some of that is, I don't. The restraint, the self deprecation, the like, I don't want to be doing this, you know, is, uh, is appealing. Uh, to me personally, that's like, that's my flavor of that's, that's the vibe.

• 2:17:14Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:17:14Speaker 03

  That I'm going for.

• 2:17:15Griffin Newman?

  And there's a still waters run deep thing with him where you.

• 2:17:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:18Griffin Newman?

  You never sense, unlike a lot of other eighties macho movie stars, there is always clearly a sensitivity that is barely being covered.

• 2:17:28Speaker 03

  Yes, though I'm also not that worried about he's, he's soft. There's like a soft side.

• 2:17:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:36Speaker 03

  But there's, it's, it's not an emo thing going on.

• 2:17:40Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:17:40Speaker 03

  You know?

• 2:17:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:41Speaker 03

  And it's like, I'm not gonna have to take care of him at any point.

• 2:17:45Griffin Newman?

  Yes, but he's also not playing dirty Harry.

• 2:17:48David Sims?

  He's not gonna do the dishes.

• 2:17:50Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 2:17:51Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:17:51David Sims?

  He is.

• 2:17:51Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's a kind of perfect balance.

• 2:17:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like he, he, he manages it very well. And he is also just, you know, classically so handsome. He is like early forties, which is very unfairly when most men really come into their own. And.

• 2:18:09Griffin Newman?

  I mean, look at, look at us.

• 2:18:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, you know?

• 2:18:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I'm just waiting.

• 2:18:11Speaker 03

  The haircut is good. Yeah, you'll get there.

• 2:18:14Griffin Newman?

  What if I turn forty and I gain six inches?

• 2:18:17David Sims?

  Oh, six inch summer.

• 2:18:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, six inch summer. I'm like, oh, I'm hot now.

• 2:18:21Speaker 03

  Okay. Um, I, for me, there is, it's kind of still Working Girl.

• 2:18:28Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:18:29Speaker 03

  Is, is the hottest because he's doing a little more screwball.

• 2:18:35Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say, how much of that is character and performance versus?

• 2:18:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:18:38David Sims?

  Like the setting.

• 2:18:39Griffin Newman?

  Purely visually.

• 2:18:41Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:18:41Griffin Newman?

  He's kind of unstoppable in this.

• 2:18:44Speaker 03

  He's like, but it's like, he's in the same phase of life. So purely visually, there they are.

• 2:18:49Griffin Newman?

  Yes, you're right.

• 2:18:50Speaker 03

  Together.

• 2:18:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:51Speaker 03

  Um, and he, it's, and he has shirtless scenes in both, you know? And he just really, like in the eighties, like, we didn't have macro boys in the same way. We didn't have protein shakes. Like, we weren't optimizing and I, I preferred that.

• 2:19:11Griffin Newman?

  This is a year after Temple of Doom, which as we talked about a lot in that episode, uh, at the time, the press was, you will not believe how big Harrison Ford got for Temple of Doom.

• 2:19:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:19:22Griffin Newman?

  And you look at the movie now and you're like, this is maybe the biggest anyone should ever get. We've gotten so out of whack now that it's not that he looks skinny, but that what the idea of like the shape you get into for a movie, and he's still basically in that shape in this where you're just like,

• 2:19:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:19:39Griffin Newman?

  He's just kind of perfect physical form without looking like a mutant.

• 2:19:43Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 2:19:44Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:19:44Speaker 03

  He just, he looks healthy and like he can run someone down or like, you know, find a rifle in a, in a large silo of corn.

• 2:19:52David Sims?

  Uh, you know who drowns in the silo of corn?

• 2:19:54Speaker 03

  Who?

• 2:19:55David Sims?

  Angus McInnes plays that character, I believe. And do you know who he is?

• 2:19:58Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:19:59David Sims?

  Gold Leader. This is Gold Leader. Beginning my trench run now. Star Wars.

• 2:20:04Speaker 03

  I, but once you said trench run, I was like, oh yeah, I know who that is.

• 2:20:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Tracy Lantz is human.

• 2:20:09David Sims?

  Okay.

• 2:20:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Tracy Lantz is like, snoring.

• 2:20:14Speaker 03

  So he gets, so.

• 2:20:15David Sims?

  Hopefully we got his ass. So hopefully he was on that episode and we got his ass.

• 2:20:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:19Speaker 03

  Wait, so he's starting his trench run? Does that mean he's on the good side or the bad side?

• 2:20:22David Sims?

  He's on the good side. He's Gold Leader. He, he pilots the Y Wing and he is really stoic.

• 2:20:27Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:20:28David Sims?

  Uh, the whole thing with Gold Leader is he's the guy who's like really, really measured, even when they're getting their fucking Y Wing's blown to bits. He rocks.

• 2:20:35Griffin Newman?

  Is he an Alec Guinness relative?

• 2:20:38David Sims?

  No, his name is Angus McInnes.

• 2:20:40Griffin Newman?

  Oh, okay.

• 2:20:41David Sims?

  McInnes.

• 2:20:42Griffin Newman?

  I was hearing it differently.

• 2:20:43David Sims?

  But I think he's of Scottish descent.

• 2:20:45Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:20:45Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:20:46David Sims?

  Um, yeah, great, great actor. Uh, this is Gold Leader.

• 2:20:49Griffin Newman?

  Dutch Vander.

• 2:20:50David Sims?

  Yeah, that, that is that, right. The, of course, later they told us all their names in the books and such.

• 2:20:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:56David Sims?

  But he's Gold Leader to me. And he's in Rogue One, because they splice in that footage, which I love.

• 2:21:00Griffin Newman?

  We love it.

• 2:21:01David Sims?

  I really do. It actually like loses me to tears. Like, I love it so much.

• 2:21:05Griffin Newman?

  Way more than the fucking CGI necromancy.

• 2:21:08David Sims?

  That's what you do. You splice in just footage that you have of them just going, this is Gold Leader. And you're like, yeah, that's all I need.

• 2:21:13Griffin Newman?

  That's all I need. Just show me the old thing. Amanda, I have a gift for you.

• 2:21:18Speaker 03

  Oh my goodness.

• 2:21:20Griffin Newman?

  It is a shirtless Harrison Ford action figure.

• 2:21:22Speaker 03

  This is real?

• 2:21:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:24David Sims?

  Wait, what's this from?

• 2:21:25Speaker 03

  Thank you so much. Oh my goodness. Okay, so what is he?

• 2:21:29David Sims?

  He's carrying a spear.

• 2:21:31Griffin Newman?

  You can throw out the other pieces that make it more specific. This is supposed to be in Temple of Doom.

• 2:21:36Speaker 03

  I was gonna say, this looks like Indiana Jones from this, where he's wearing khaki pants.

• 2:21:39Griffin Newman?

  It's when he's hypnotized and he quickly turns evil.

• 2:21:42David Sims?

  Do I want an indie? I guess if I want a shirtless Harrison, that's what I want. But like, do I want an indie sans hat?

• 2:21:48Griffin Newman?

  David, I agree with you. There's a reason I'm gifting this action figure to Amanda.

• 2:21:52David Sims?

  You're gifting a truck because you're her friend.

• 2:21:54Griffin Newman?

  But both. I'm like, I don't need this, and I think this could have some specific value for you.

• 2:21:59Speaker 03

  This is really huge, actually, because my kids have gotten, or Knox is the older, has gotten to the phase where he wants to, like, he has all his trucks. But he like wants someone to drive the truck. You know, so, and we do have some Harrison Ford in Temple of Doom sized trucks. That I think, yeah, so, I mean, get rid of this gear.

• 2:22:18Griffin Newman?

  Get rid of that, and he's got a weird, like, sash.

• 2:22:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, but like, do you know how quickly this goes into someone's eyes?

• 2:22:24Griffin Newman?

  Right. Yeah.

• 2:22:25David Sims?

  And they'll run around with it. You don't want your kids running around with the onesie thing. Sometimes it's good to learn a lesson.

• 2:22:29Griffin Newman?

  String sash as well, but if you've got that, then it's just shirtless Harrison Ford with a weird marking on his forehead. Yeah.

• 2:22:35Speaker 03

  It's interesting how his legs are attached to his body. So he has a lot of joint flexibility. Which is great, but that also means that the, the nature of his pants, it looks like he's wearing a khaki diaper. And then khaki pants on it. Yeah, which, um.

• 2:22:53David Sims?

  The diapering.

• 2:22:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:22:54Griffin Newman?

  Guys, you're, you're using terms that are constant on the message boards. The diaper effect is a real, it's a plague of the action figure.

• 2:23:02Speaker 03

  Really agile. Like, it's like, he's focused on mobility, you know?

• 2:23:06Griffin Newman?

  Yes. And he's, he's very shirtless. I do think it-

• 2:23:09Speaker 03

  Shoulder is moving well.

• 2:23:11Griffin Newman?

  I do think it accurately captures the appeal of shirtless Harrison Ford in this era.

• 2:23:17Speaker 03

  It really does.

• 2:23:17Griffin Newman?

  It's got his body kind of right.

• 2:23:19Speaker 03

  And he's not too swole.

• 2:23:20Griffin Newman?

  No, it's, it's kind of correct.

• 2:23:22Speaker 03

  Thank you so much for this gift, Greg. Thank you.

• 2:23:24David Sims?

  Apart from Red Hulk. Of course, President Hulk.

• 2:23:26Griffin Newman?

  Nothing but respect.

• 2:23:27David Sims?

  Who is, what is the swolest Harrison Ford ever got?

• 2:23:30Griffin Newman?

  It's Temple of Doom.

• 2:23:31David Sims?

  It's probably Temple of Doom.

• 2:23:32Griffin Newman?

  It is.

• 2:23:32David Sims?

  At least it's the most shirtless thing.

• 2:23:33Speaker 03

  He has some scars on his back.

• 2:23:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:36David Sims?

  He gets whipped in that movie.

• 2:23:37Speaker 03

  I, I mean, like, I understood what they were, but explaining that to a three-year-old is gonna be interesting.

• 2:23:42Griffin Newman?

  Can I give you my pro tip?

• 2:23:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:23:43Griffin Newman?

  Nail polish remover.

• 2:23:45Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 2:23:46Griffin Newman?

  Just, I'd say just a cute tip, nail polish remover.

• 2:23:48Speaker 03

  I have it. Okay.

• 2:23:48Griffin Newman?

  I assumed as much.

• 2:23:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:23:50Griffin Newman?

  You could do that, and then there's the weird mark on the forehead. That's, I think, part of his possession.

• 2:23:54Speaker 03

  Oh, sure.

• 2:23:55Griffin Newman?

  If you, if you dare to do five minutes of activity on this, yeah.

• 2:23:59Speaker 03

  I can do that.

• 2:24:00Griffin Newman?

  They, they made a bunch of figures when the last Indiana Jones came out of all the previous films, but they made like twenty different versions of Indiana Jones versus the supporting characters.

• 2:24:09David Sims?

  It's Witness. I just, I'm feeling a little bit of stress on like, have we talked enough about Witness, the film Witness, Witness, Witness?

• 2:24:15Griffin Newman?

  Witness.

• 2:24:16Speaker 03

  Witness.

• 2:24:29David Sims?

  I guess, are there any scenes?

• 2:24:31Griffin Newman?

  I do wanna talk about, I do wanna talk about the boobies scene.

• 2:24:35Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 2:24:36David Sims?

  Yes, of course.

• 2:24:36Griffin Newman?

  To put it in the most respectful, mature terms possible.

• 2:24:39David Sims?

  The stages of their sort of relationship, whatever, is like, right, initial, he's helping.

• 2:24:46Griffin Newman?

  Conversational flirtation. Her kind of laughing at him, trying to adjust.

• 2:24:51David Sims?

  Familiarity, then the dancing, then her kind of letting him look at her naked, like this sort of like, this like quiet tense moment.

• 2:25:00Griffin Newman?

  Electric about that.

• 2:25:01David Sims?

  Right, and then the kissing in the rain is the end of it.

• 2:25:03Speaker 03

  Also crucially, like, diehard guy shows up and has been...

• 2:25:08David Sims?

  He's circling like a fucking vulture.

• 2:25:11Speaker 03

  From like, he has no chill. He is at the funeral.

• 2:25:14David Sims?

  How many ladies are around?

• 2:25:17Speaker 03

  I get it, but, so he shows up.

• 2:25:20David Sims?

  And he's, it seems like a... Nice guy, like he's not a villainous character.

• 2:25:24Speaker 03

  Totally, but she is not feeling it.

• 2:25:27David Sims?

  She's just not feeling it.

• 2:25:28Speaker 03

  And so Harrison Ford makes himself scarce.

• 2:25:31Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:25:31Speaker 03

  And then she goes and finds him, which is like, and then he's, he's doing carpentry. So, you know.

• 2:25:38David Sims?

  A little. Apartheid.

• 2:25:40Speaker 03

  There we go.

• 2:25:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:42Speaker 03

  So that, I mean, that scene is always important to me in there.

• 2:25:46David Sims?

  The community even acknowledges their tension.

• 2:25:48Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:25:49David Sims?

  Cause I think it's kind of like.

• 2:25:50Griffin Newman?

  It's like so palpable.

• 2:25:51Speaker 03

  More travels. Right.

• 2:25:53Griffin Newman?

  But also they just, they want to keep things closed loop. They want good enough to just come in there and just like immediately get her remarried. I, I also, Weir said that they, they were really struggling in casting that part. His casting director suggests good enough. He's like a dancer, like I, don't we need a real actor for this? And she was like, just meet with him. I just saw him perform. I got a vibe, right? And meets with him and is like, the look was obviously right. His energy was so like gentle. And his smile was so disarming. And he said, the big math problem he was trying to solve with that casting is the end of my movie is going to be Harrison Ford driving off and this guy walking towards the house.

• 2:26:37Griffin Newman?

  And the audience has to feel like that isn't a death sentence for her. They have to feel like if she ends up with him, that's not a bad situation.

• 2:26:46Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:26:46Griffin Newman?

  And so even while there's the intention internal in the movie, you need to still feel vaguely good enough about that guy. And he was like, it truly just was, when he smiled, it worked. And I was like, if I can put that on screen four times and he can be himself and just maintain this kind of like sensitive energy, we're good.

• 2:27:06Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:27:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:08David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, I mean, uh, he is good and.

• 2:27:13Griffin Newman?

  Good enough.

• 2:27:14David Sims?

  He's good enough, yes, absolutely.

• 2:27:16Speaker 03

  Great kid performance.

• 2:27:18David Sims?

  Lucas Haas?

• 2:27:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:27:19Griffin Newman?

  Isn't extraordinary.

• 2:27:21David Sims?

  Look, the, the thing with him is. He became a good actor, like, right, he's a good adult actor. I like Lucas Haas all the time. You watch this performance and correctly, like, what the movie wants you to think is the reaction you have, which is like, this is a kid they, Amish kid they found somehow.

• 2:27:37Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:27:37David Sims?

  They plucked this kid out of, out of like, the darkest, like, you know, most obscure part of like, the country. Like, there's no wa- like, there's no way this is an actor.

• 2:27:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:46David Sims?

  Like, he's so natural.

• 2:27:48Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:27:48David Sims?

  He's so beautiful, like, he just looks like a drawing.

• 2:27:51Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:27:52David Sims?

  And like, his eyes are so incredible, and he's so sweet.

• 2:27:56Griffin Newman?

  Can I?

• 2:27:56David Sims?

  Like, he's such a cute.

• 2:27:57Griffin Newman?

  Can I tell the Weir story about directing the bathroom scene?

• 2:28:00David Sims?

  Uh, sure, yeah.

• 2:28:01Griffin Newman?

  So, uh, Weir was like, very sensitive of like, he's very young.

• 2:28:04David Sims?

  Right, this is a disturbing scene.

• 2:28:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:06Griffin Newman?

  He's a precocious kid, he's smart, he's read the script, he seems to understand it, but that's very different from actually seeing it.

• 2:28:12David Sims?

  Of course.

• 2:28:12Griffin Newman?

  Right? And he was like, and I, I wanted to make the bathroom scene very violent and upsetting. So I was very, like, set on, I'm not gonna show it to him. We're gonna shoot this separately on two different days. And I just need him to act it, because I don't want him to have that in his mind. Um, and they're shooting the Lucas Haas day, and Weir's like, he's just not getting it.

• 2:28:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:37Griffin Newman?

  And he goes to him and he's like, Lucas, no pressure, but you're like, letting down the movie right now.

• 2:28:41David Sims?

  Jesus.

• 2:28:42Griffin Newman?

  Is the way he words it, and Lucas Haas clearly remembers it like, verbatim. Well, he and Weir tell the same story with the same wording.

• 2:28:48David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:28:49Griffin Newman?

  And Lucas Haas, as like, a little grown up, says like, "Well, the problem is, it's pretty hard to stare at like, a taped X at the wall."

• 2:28:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:58Griffin Newman?

  And act really scared. And Weir says to him-

• 2:29:01David Sims?

  Weir says, "Welcome to fucking Hollywood, bitch, rolling again!" No, what'd he say?

• 2:29:05Griffin Newman?

  No, he says, "You're letting down the movie, we need to figure something out." And he says, "Here's what I suggest. I need you to look at that X, and I need you to think of the most scared you've ever been by anything in your life, and don't tell me what it is."

• 2:29:16David Sims?

  Sure.

• 2:29:17Griffin Newman?

  "But just when I call action, make that the X."

• 2:29:20David Sims?

  What if he said, "It's right now."

• 2:29:21Griffin Newman?

  It's this moment.

• 2:29:22David Sims?

  This is the most scared I've ever been.

• 2:29:23Griffin Newman?

  You just told me I'm letting down the movie. And he was like, and he did it, and he just nailed it immediately.

• 2:29:28David Sims?

  Sure.

• 2:29:28Griffin Newman?

  And he never revealed what it was.

• 2:29:30David Sims?

  And he won't reveal now?

• 2:29:31Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:29:31David Sims?

  Sure, spiders or something?

• 2:29:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, probably spiders.

• 2:29:34David Sims?

  Fucking spiders.

• 2:29:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:37David Sims?

  So for my daughter, it would be when Ursula gets too huge in The Little Mermaid.

• 2:29:40Speaker 03

  That is really scary.

• 2:29:41David Sims?

  That's her number one, like, we're not, we're not gonna watch that part.

• 2:29:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:29:46David Sims?

  Yeah, I don't like her when she's very huge.

• 2:29:48Griffin Newman?

  I want, I want to go back to the bathing scene for a second, because there's a moment in it that I think is kind of like the perfect grace note within this film, which is, you know, he walks up, she turns around. She exposes herself. It's like building with like thriller tension where we're seeing these extreme closeups of like sponge on her shin.

• 2:30:06Speaker 03

  Right, yeah.

• 2:30:07Griffin Newman?

  Aware that she's naked, but we're not seeing her naked body. And you're seeing Harrison Ford come upstairs, and you know the confrontation's about to happen. And you, as the audience, are wondering what's gonna come of it, right?

• 2:30:17Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:30:18Griffin Newman?

  And he walks up, she turns around, you cut out to like a cowboy shot. So you're seeing her topless for the first time, and aware that this is what he's seeing. And then it's extreme closeup on Harrison Ford's face, and he looks at her and with like incredible motor control, just kind of throws his gaze down. Like, he looks and then makes the statement in, if you're not gonna turn back around, I'm gonna do the gentlemanly thing. And nothing is said.

• 2:30:48Speaker 03

  It's great.

• 2:30:49David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:30:49Griffin Newman?

  It's incredible.

• 2:30:51Speaker 03

  I mean, Peter Weir does not love dialogue as much as other people, that's, but like, the amount that is shown rather than said in this, in this movie is, I think, amazing and also one of its, like, great achievements.

• 2:31:07Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely. And even if it was kind of nothing dialogue, like, oh my god, I'm sorry, like, it wasn't full monologue.

• 2:31:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, they just don't do it.

• 2:31:14Griffin Newman?

  It's so much more powerful for it to be like full fucking like passion of the John Ford. Of just like, this is just them looking at each other, and cutting back and forth between them.

• 2:31:25Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:31:25Griffin Newman?

  And then it's like her kind of disappointment that she's not looking, that he's not looking any longer.

• 2:31:30Speaker 03

  Right, right, right.

• 2:31:30Griffin Newman?

  Even though she knows he's probably right, and then he follows it up the next day with the line. Which is just such an exquisite, like-

• 2:31:37David Sims?

  It's like, what's supposed to happen? Right?

• 2:31:38Griffin Newman?

  But also the whole movie in 10 words, right? It's like the perfect Harrison Ford thing of he's gonna say the least he can possibly say.

• 2:31:45Speaker 03

  Right. And he even, I was watching this on like a low volume last night because I didn't want to keep up everyone else in the apartment. And the, the, the second half, like, or you'd have to leave, he like almost whispers. So I had to go and like turn it back up. I was like, no, no, no, I need this, you know? I need the full thing.

• 2:32:05Griffin Newman?

  We think they don't sleep together in actuality. It does.

• 2:32:07David Sims?

  No, they don't. No, they just kiss.

• 2:32:09Griffin Newman?

  Boil over and they kiss in the middle of a film. Yeah.

• 2:32:11David Sims?

  That's, that's the extent of them letting something happen and they almost immediately are like again confronted with, what's the end game here?

• 2:32:18Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:32:19David Sims?

  But they know.

• 2:32:20Speaker 03

  But we're all adults, you know, which is like the, the theme of this movie. We're adults.

• 2:32:24David Sims?

  You've got your farm. I've got my shitty Pennsylvania, Philadelphia apartment, whatever.

• 2:32:29Griffin Newman?

  Also, if they didn't kiss, they would maybe explode, though.

• 2:32:31Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:32:32David Sims?

  Something's gotta happen.

• 2:32:33Griffin Newman?

  At least fall past to like.

• 2:32:34Speaker 03

  And they're essentially like eating each other's faces.

• 2:32:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:37Speaker 03

  It's like, that's the nature of the kiss.

• 2:32:38Griffin Newman?

  They're kissing the shit out of each other.

• 2:32:40David Sims?

  But she, you get the impression, it's just so good that it's not about how this life oppresses her, but it's also not about how this life is perfect for her. She does have longing for more, but she's not sure she has longing for that, like entire divorce from this community.

• 2:32:56Griffin Newman?

  She has her.

• 2:32:57David Sims?

  That does clearly matter to her.

• 2:32:58Griffin Newman?

  She has her version of the maybe we should call them ex-women speech with her father.

• 2:33:04David Sims?

  I mean, which was perfected in the film X-Men: Dark Phoenix, where she says, maybe we should call them ex-women.

• 2:33:09Griffin Newman?

  It took 10 movies and we finally got there. She asked the real questions and gave the real answers.

• 2:33:14David Sims?

  That scene's a real pack it up Hollywood.

• 2:33:16Griffin Newman?

  On everything.

• 2:33:17David Sims?

  Yeah, just pack it up. Let's stop making movies.

• 2:33:19Griffin Newman?

  Let me, let me put it this way. I don't think it's unrelated that a global pandemic happened within six months of that line of dialogue.

• 2:33:27David Sims?

  Fucking line. Oh, boy. Um, yeah, uh, that's wonderful.

• 2:33:31Griffin Newman?

  But the scene with her father where he's kind of like, I'm seeing too much chemistry.

• 2:33:36David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:33:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:33:37Griffin Newman?

  And you cannot allow yourself to be a ruined woman.

• 2:33:39David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:33:39Speaker 03

  And then he like, you know, it's one of the few expository pieces of writing where he's like, you will be shunned and it means that I can't do this and I can't, you know, can't do that. And like, and it's like, it's like real stakes.

• 2:33:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:54Speaker 03

  But somehow doesn't also in, it, it like matters to them, so it doesn't make it seem. Like bizarre or, uh, you know, weird. Like, just like, you know, creepy. It still has respect for what's going on. Like, their rules are important to them. And so it's like really important that he be, still be able to follow them.

• 2:34:14Griffin Newman?

  I love that the plotting of this movie is they immediately, all the dirty cops, immediately know what he did.

• 2:34:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:34:21Griffin Newman?

  He went to fucking Amish country.

• 2:34:22David Sims?

  And then they just cannot fucking

• 2:34:24Griffin Newman?

  There's no mystery.

• 2:34:25David Sims?

  Search for him because they don't have phones.

• 2:34:27Griffin Newman?

  They call the closest precinct.

• 2:34:29Speaker 03

  But, and that, the, that cop is awesome. He's like, he's like, there are so many laps, you know? And he's just kind of like, this is how, he's so great.

• 2:34:37David Sims?

  But I do love that guy too. Like, that guy's job is just like, yeah, I don't know, man. They don't have phones.

• 2:34:41Griffin Newman?

  Feet up on his desk being like, nothing I can do, bro.

• 2:34:44Speaker 03

  Good luck to you.

• 2:34:45David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 2:34:46Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:34:46David Sims?

  And they're like, this is about cop killing. And he's like, I don't give a shit. I mean, he doesn't say that.

• 2:34:51Griffin Newman?

  When he goes into town, he calls on a payphone to check on his partner, finds out that he died.

• 2:34:56David Sims?

  That's why, of course, that's why he's, right. Especially full of rage.

• 2:35:00Griffin Newman?

  So then he calls the chief, is like, you can't trace this call, but fuck you.

• 2:35:04Speaker 03

  The chief is having a barbecue of some kind.

• 2:35:06David Sims?

  Joseph Sumner's so good in that shit. Cause like, Joseph Sumner really good at playing a guy who is in over his head.

• 2:35:11Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:35:11David Sims?

  He just wanted some speed money.

• 2:35:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:35:14David Sims?

  Right? He didn't really want to go out there, be murdering like cops left and right.

• 2:35:17Speaker 03

  Okay, so $22 million.

• 2:35:19David Sims?

  It's a lot of money.

• 2:35:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a lot of money. And like, this is in the eighties, so.

• 2:35:22Griffin Newman?

  It's like a Harrison Ford salary.

• 2:35:24Speaker 03

  Okay, but it's like, so, because you sold some confiscated speed or like an important ingredient. Like, in the confiscated speed. And everyone's buying their speed from Philadelphia. So.

• 2:35:36David Sims?

  Oh, yeah, that Philly speed.

• 2:35:37Speaker 03

  But like, how, how is he using that money without people noticing?

• 2:35:42David Sims?

  Well, it's a great question.

• 2:35:44Speaker 03

  It is a nice house and they have the wallpaper.

• 2:35:46David Sims?

  It was more of a cash economy than in those days. Yeah, he's got a lot of walking around money.

• 2:35:50Speaker 03

  Like, suddenly, like, you show up with a new, you know, car, like, aren't people gonna notice?

• 2:35:56Griffin Newman?

  It is a flourish I love in this film, that when he calls.

• 2:35:59Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:36:01Griffin Newman?

  His wife picks up.

• 2:36:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:36:03Griffin Newman?

  And she's immediately panicked. You see it on her face. It's not in text, but it's a beautifully calibrated performance.

• 2:36:08David Sims?

  So she's got the hint in her brain of like, huh? Has something been going on?

• 2:36:11Griffin Newman?

  I think she knows. I watch it and see it as she knows what's paying for all of this.

• 2:36:15Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:36:16David Sims?

  Right, exactly.

• 2:36:17Griffin Newman?

  Because she picks up and it's immediately like, this is the guy who's circling in on us.

• 2:36:21Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:36:22Griffin Newman?

  Is this all about to fall apart?

• 2:36:23Speaker 03

  A beautiful suburban home.

• 2:36:24Griffin Newman?

  Right, and even when she tells her husband to pick up the phone, she's very slow to put the phone back on the receiver.

• 2:36:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I just-

• 2:36:32Griffin Newman?

  You see her consider, do I want to listen in?

• 2:36:34Speaker 03

  But like more broadly, I am like, where do you, what's your strat with like the 22 million that came out of nowhere? If you're like the police sergeant or whatever, like what is the?

• 2:36:44Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's a terrible plan. It is sort of what is his undoing. I mean, I like that the way he's able to defeat him. You know, he can only corn one guy to death, right?

• 2:36:53David Sims?

  He corns Gold Leader.

• 2:36:54Griffin Newman?

  He corns him.

• 2:36:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:36:56David Sims?

  Uh.

• 2:36:56Speaker 03

  I'm so glad we're bringing that because explain what happens and I did want to talk about this, this scene.

• 2:37:02Griffin Newman?

  The corn silo?

• 2:37:02Speaker 03

  No, not the, no, the corning's good, but the confrontation, yeah.

• 2:37:05David Sims?

  He shoots Danny Glover.

• 2:37:06Griffin Newman?

  He shoots Danny Glover?

• 2:37:07David Sims?

  With a big old shotgun.

• 2:37:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:37:08David Sims?

  Danny Glover, probably the most straight up villainous character in that we watched him murder someone else.

• 2:37:13Griffin Newman?

  But then he's out of bullets.

• 2:37:14David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:15Griffin Newman?

  He's got a corn Gold Leader.

• 2:37:16David Sims?

  Joe, he's right.

• 2:37:19David Sims?

  And Joseph Summer, you know, the chief takes, you know, but through a series of, you know, Lucas Haas is trying to help or whatever.

• 2:37:26Griffin Newman?

  Well, he tells Lucas Haas to run, to protect himself.

• 2:37:28Speaker 03

  But Lucas Haas doesn't.

• 2:37:29Griffin Newman?

  He doesn't. He rings the bell. The whole community comes.

• 2:37:33David Sims?

  And he's got this boy and he's doing the whole like, I'm gonna kill, you know, like, you know? And Harrison Ford's just like, you're gonna kill a kid? I mean, right? Like, you know, there, there's this like tension of like-

• 2:37:43Griffin Newman?

  Let me correct you.

• 2:37:44David Sims?

  Yeah, no, go ahead.

• 2:37:45Griffin Newman?

  He has Harrison Ford. Then they walk out of the barn, right? Then he sees that everyone's there.

• 2:37:49David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:37:50Griffin Newman?

  And Joseph Summer's still like, I'm gonna fucking shoot you.

• 2:37:52David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:37:52Griffin Newman?

  And he's holding the shotgun and Harrison Ford jumps over to their side.

• 2:37:56David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:37:57Griffin Newman?

  And Harrison Ford is the one who's like, you're gonna shoot her, you're gonna shoot him.

• 2:38:01David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:38:01Griffin Newman?

  You're gonna shoot the kid.

• 2:38:02Speaker 03

  And he says, you're gonna shoot the kid and then he grabs the kid.

• 2:38:06Griffin Newman?

  He grabs the kid.

• 2:38:07Speaker 03

  And puts the kid in front of him and I have a note.

• 2:38:10David Sims?

  Okay, okay, right.

• 2:38:10Speaker 03

  Of John Book?

• 2:38:11David Sims?

  This is the thing, it's not the chief, right?

• 2:38:13Griffin Newman?

  That's the correction. And McGillis like shrieks.

• 2:38:16David Sims?

  I mean, she's so good.

• 2:38:17Speaker 03

  I was like, I was like, listen, I think John Book, like, everything he does, spot on, except for-

• 2:38:22David Sims?

  So you think this is just him gambling a little too much?

• 2:38:25Speaker 03

  I would not put the kid in front of me. And in general, I don't think that you wanna give the visual of you ever putting a child between you and a shotgun.

• 2:38:35David Sims?

  But I guess, sure, but I guess Book is the only one who knows this guy. Everyone else doesn't know this guy.

• 2:38:40Griffin Newman?

  Also, he doesn't-

• 2:38:41David Sims?

  And he's basically like, you're a fucking, you know-

• 2:38:43Griffin Newman?

  Doesn't quite do things by the book.

• 2:38:46David Sims?

  But you're, he's like, you're a white collar cop, right? You know, you're-

• 2:38:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:38:52David Sims?

  You don't get your hands dirty. You get these other guys, Gold Leader and Danny Glover, to get your hands dirty.

• 2:38:57Griffin Newman?

  I forget what the wording is, it's better than what I'm about to say, but there's the scene where he says to him the sort of like, lost your way thing, right? Where he's like, so what happened? Lost your way?

• 2:39:07Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:39:07Griffin Newman?

  And someone's like, what are you talking about? And he's like, remember we used to say that about dirty cops?

• 2:39:10David Sims?

  Yes, that they, yeah, right.

• 2:39:12Griffin Newman?

  And I think he is calling his bluff on that. When you're saying like, what's his plan with the 22 million dollars? What he's calling the bluff on in that moment is just like, this is unsustainable. What are you gonna do? There are fucking 20 witnesses now.

• 2:39:23David Sims?

  Well, that's the other thing, right.

• 2:39:24Griffin Newman?

  Are you gonna be a guy who shoots kids? And then you're gonna have to shoot more people to cover this up?

• 2:39:27David Sims?

  But I mean, it's, there's too many witnesses.

• 2:39:29Griffin Newman?

  It's never gonna end.

• 2:39:30David Sims?

  It's the title of the movie.

• 2:39:31Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:39:32David Sims?

  He maxes out on witnesses at the end of it. Like, he really overloads it.

• 2:39:35Griffin Newman?

  But the larger point is, like, how much are you willing to do to preserve having 22 million dollars? Because it's never, you're never gonna get to the other side of this. You're never gonna be clean.

• 2:39:45Speaker 03

  It's over.

• 2:39:46Griffin Newman?

  It's over.

• 2:39:47Speaker 03

  That's, I think, I think those are great points.

• 2:39:49Griffin Newman?

  It's high risk, what he's doing.

• 2:39:51Speaker 03

  I just, I think grabbing the kid-

• 2:39:53Griffin Newman?

  I agree.

• 2:39:54Speaker 03

  I'd rethink it. That's my note.

• 2:39:55Griffin Newman?

  Now, can I give my argument for it? Not for the move, but for the move within the movie. I think the function of that is him kind of recognizing, oh, I could never stay here. That like, the fucking, three dirty cops show up and he immediately goes back into old school John Book mode.

• 2:40:12David Sims?

  Sure.

• 2:40:13Griffin Newman?

  And he's doing fucking action movie moves.

• 2:40:15David Sims?

  He's jumping around, yeah.

• 2:40:16Griffin Newman?

  And he's being frivolous in that kind of way.

• 2:40:18David Sims?

  Yeah, he's not being plain. This is not a plain.

• 2:40:20Griffin Newman?

  He's not being plain. And it's like, it clocks something in him and in her of just like, I, I, I adjusted to this for longer than I thought I could.

• 2:40:30David Sims?

  Sure, sure.

• 2:40:30Griffin Newman?

  And yet so quickly I go back to being eighties movie cop.

• 2:40:33Speaker 03

  Right. Well, as he says in the scene when he fights the dude, you know, the grandpa's like, it's not our way. He's like, but it's my way.

• 2:40:42Griffin Newman?

  It's already bubbling back up inside him. And then his, you know, kind of farewell speech to Lucas Haas happens entirely M O S.

• 2:40:51David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:40:52Griffin Newman?

  You see them in a distance. She's watching them have whatever the emotional talk is that we don't hear a syllable of.

• 2:40:58David Sims?

  We understand.

• 2:40:58Griffin Newman?

  But something has happened and then he's gonna have the totally kind of silent goodbye with him.

• 2:41:03David Sims?

  And also you be careful out there among them. English is just a perfect kiss off too. Like where he's like, you know, he knows he's giving something up.

• 2:41:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:13David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:13Griffin Newman?

  No, I, I think part of the point is that even though it works out, he fucks up in that final moment.

• 2:41:19David Sims?

  Sure. Okay.

• 2:41:20Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:41:20Griffin Newman?

  That the fact that it works out isn't actually a feather in his cap.

• 2:41:24David Sims?

  It's what you're saying though, even if he fucks up or it's just like, his presence is just a fundamental problem.

• 2:41:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:41:30David Sims?

  Yeah. Can't be solved.

• 2:41:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:32David Sims?

  Too bad. I bet he's really good at sex. Um, just that much anger, you know, there's just something there probably.

• 2:41:39Speaker 03

  No, I mean, I agree.

• 2:41:40David Sims?

  That's our energy. Yeah.

• 2:41:42Griffin Newman?

  We know he's good with his hands. We know that for a fact. We do.

• 2:41:45Speaker 03

  Isn't also like that's when Carrie Fisher finally, you know, wrote the autobiography and was like, yes, we had an affair. And she was just like, and Harrison knew what he was doing. Like, wasn't that the review? Yeah.

• 2:41:55Griffin Newman?

  What better?

• 2:41:56David Sims?

  I mean, he was a good deal older than her.

• 2:41:58Griffin Newman?

  But isn't that the exact review you want in life?

• 2:42:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:42:02Griffin Newman?

  He knew what he was doing.

• 2:42:04Speaker 03

  It was the seventies. It's fine. They don't wear bras in space, you know?

• 2:42:08Griffin Newman?

  It's nowhere near as bad as Arwen and Airborne.

• 2:42:12David Sims?

  Originally, uh, when Harrison says goodbye, there's a long dialogue scene where he's explaining why he's

• 2:42:18Speaker 03

  No way.

• 2:42:19David Sims?

  And Weir's like,

• 2:42:20Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:42:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, out of here.

• 2:42:22David Sims?

  Jeffrey Katzenberg is head of production at Paramount at that point, flies out and says like, why are we cutting this?

• 2:42:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:27David Sims?

  And Peter Weir explains the scene to him and is like, it's gonna, and he was like, okay, I think that'll work, you know? So, like, they successfully kind of bat off whatever sort of over explainee, studio node-y stuff could have hampered this movie.

• 2:42:42Griffin Newman?

  I think a lot of that was really like Ford being completely in line with him and using his movie stardom like as, as a shield.

• 2:42:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:42:51Griffin Newman?

  There's a great thing that John Seal says where he was worried about working on this movie and Peter Weir, uh, was trying to talk him into it. And he was like, I've heard all these stories about people and they go to Hollywood and it chews them up and it spits them out. And you're fighting the studio all the time. We got this A-list movie star. And Peter Weir said, think of it this way, we're making an Australian film. I am committed to preserving this being an Australian film. We're just gonna be working with a lot of people with funny accents.

• 2:43:17David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:43:18Griffin Newman?

  But it speaks to this where Peter Weir was just like, my compass is set. I know what my language is as a filmmaker. I'm not gonna fucking bend to these types of notes that will pull this away from being the kind of film I respect.

• 2:43:29David Sims?

  Um, another thing to say, of course, is that, uh, Roger Ebert loved this movie when it came out. It was a big hit. This movie was a, a kind of hit that doesn't exist anymore. Uh, doesn't get to number one until it's fifth weekend.

• 2:43:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:43:43David Sims?

  Uh, sort of just chugs along. Roger Ebert was like masterpiece.

• 2:43:47Griffin Newman?

  And it's a spring release and gets like eight Oscar nominations a year later, basically.

• 2:43:52David Sims?

  Not even spring, February 1985. Pauline Kael hated it. She is in her true grump era at that point, mid, mid to late eighties. But she's basically just like, pardon me with all this farm bullshit, you know? Like, it just hates it. She also bodies, uh, blood simple in that review as well.

• 2:44:10Griffin Newman?

  In the same review?

• 2:44:11David Sims?

  Yeah. She just like drive bys blood simple just like casually is like, and those Coen brothers will never amount to anything.

• 2:44:18Griffin Newman?

  But it like fully accomplishes what Harrison Ford wanted it to. He, of course, immediately is so in love with the experience of working with Weir that he's like, "What do you got next?" And he's like, "My fucking Mosquito Coast fell apart."

• 2:44:30David Sims?

  Right, I've been trying to make this thing. He's like, "Great."

• 2:44:32Griffin Newman?

  Both of them missed the Oscars because they go straight into filming Mosquito Coast. They were like, "Keep it going."

• 2:44:37David Sims?

  I think they were also surprised. I think this was not necessarily seen as an Oscar movie.

• 2:44:41Griffin Newman?

  No, especially like that far off in advance.

• 2:44:46Griffin Newman?

  And when we bemoan the sort of like cowardice of A-list movie stars.

• 2:44:50David Sims?

  I hate cowards.

• 2:44:51Griffin Newman?

  This is the thing we miss, right? That like you look at Chris Evans. I am thrilled that he's finally doing smaller things, right?

• 2:44:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:44:59David Sims?

  Not just that, but is fully admitting like, "I made bad movies."

• 2:45:02Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:45:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:45:03Griffin Newman?

  But it's like, what's the point of being Captain America if you're not doing shit like this? Which Harrison Ford was like, "I got Indiana Jones and fucking Han Solo. I got a stretch," right?

• 2:45:13Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:45:14Griffin Newman?

  And now it's become a binary thing of like, either you're doing Jumanji or The Smashing Machine. Like you are either doing

• 2:45:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:45:21Griffin Newman?

  obvious tent pole, or you're making something like controlled, smaller budget specifically to get the award. This ends up getting Ford an Oscar nomination, but what he's trying to do is just make grown-up entertainment.

• 2:45:33David Sims?

  But it's like, why can't we have Twenty One Bridges? Which wasn't that long ago, which was that interesting thing where Chadwick was like,

• 2:45:39Griffin Newman?

  That's the exact one I was gonna bring up. And you look at it now and it's like disappointing that Chadwick only has 10 movies and one of them is Twenty One Bridges. And that he couldn't find his version of that that was closer to witness level, but it's the right instinct. And none of these guys fucking do this.

• 2:45:55David Sims?

  They don't.

• 2:45:55Griffin Newman?

  It's what's aggravated.

• 2:45:56Speaker 03

  Well, they don't even really like make genre movies. You know, like things like, you know, a cop movie or a...

• 2:46:00Griffin Newman?

  It's also, it's on the studios.

• 2:46:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:46:03Griffin Newman?

  But it's either like massive or tiny.

• 2:46:05David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:06Griffin Newman?

  And you want them to be like, "No, what I gotta do is find a good script and get a good director, a proper budget and support to make an actual movie."

• 2:46:14Speaker 03

  But then Presumed Innocent like is just now literally remade as a TV show. That's not as good.

• 2:46:18Griffin Newman?

  All these things are TV shows instead of movies. Right. I guess if these guys do that, they do it on TV.

• 2:46:22David Sims?

  It is crazy. Presumed Innocent, Mosquito Coast, literally Harrison Ford movies. Of this era, Apple TV is like, can we stretch it out?

• 2:46:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:46:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:31David Sims?

  Ten episodes?

• 2:46:32Griffin Newman?

  What's the next one?

• 2:46:33David Sims?

  I don't know, frantic, you know, like, I don't, I mean, alright, so Box Office, February 8th, 1985. Uh, number one at the box office has been number one for, I imagine, two months.

• 2:46:42Griffin Newman?

  Now, I fucked this up. I spent 15 minutes getting this wrong, I think on the Blood Simple episode, so I know it now.

• 2:46:48David Sims?

  What is it?

• 2:46:48Griffin Newman?

  It's Beverly Hills Cop, right?

• 2:46:50David Sims?

  Correct.

• 2:46:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:50David Sims?

  Beverly Hills Cop, which is a runaway sensation from Christmas time, or even prior.

• 2:46:55Griffin Newman?

  One of the highest grossing movies ever.

• 2:46:56David Sims?

  Right. Uh, and then Witness, opening a solid number two to 4.5 million dollars. It's going to make, uh, 65 domestic, about 100 plus worldwide.

• 2:47:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, 120, I think, yeah.

• 2:47:07David Sims?

  Um, number three at the box office is another, uh, holdover from awards season. I mean, not Beverly Hills Cop wasn't awardsy, but, you know.

• 2:47:15Speaker 03

  You know.

• 2:47:15Griffin Newman?

  But it was a big Oscar player?

• 2:47:17David Sims?

  It was a big Oscar player. It won three Academy Awards and was nominated for Best Picture. It is a very serious drama about very real bad things.

• 2:47:25Griffin Newman?

  The Killing Fields?

• 2:47:26David Sims?

  It is The Killing Fields, the Laugh Riot of 1984. And not a bad movie, have you seen? Has anyone seen The Killing Fields?

• 2:47:33Griffin Newman?

  No, I've just seen, uh...

• 2:47:34David Sims?

  It's a very sober, okay drama about a real thing.

• 2:47:37Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:47:38David Sims?

  It's not life-changing, in my opinion, but it's pretty good.

• 2:47:41Griffin Newman?

  It is funny to, uh, when you watch things from that time, Killing Fields was used as shorthand for, like, serious depressing movie.

• 2:47:49David Sims?

  Number one, kind of.

• 2:47:50Griffin Newman?

  As a person who watches too many 80's sitcoms, it's like, it, it kind of held the Schindler's List position until Schindler's List.

• 2:47:57David Sims?

  I mean, it's literally called The Killing Fields.

• 2:47:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was gonna say it's in the title.

• 2:48:00David Sims?

  Yeah. Um, I always think of the movie, uh, The Milk of Sorrow, which was a, like, a foreign film from a few, like, that seemed like the number one, like, two to the Milk of Sorrow, please? I hear this is good.

• 2:48:13Griffin Newman?

  Can I buy a one-way ticket to Bummer'sville?

• 2:48:16David Sims?

  Um, number four at the box office is another awardsy film from 1984, uh, that came out December, that was... You know, nominated for Best Picture and was like a big deal, but it's the final film of like a great legend. And it's like, it's kind of from another era.

• 2:48:32Griffin Newman?

  Well, it's not Prizzy's Honor.

• 2:48:33David Sims?

  No.

• 2:48:35Griffin Newman?

  Uh, it's a final film of a great director and it's kind of from a different era. Give me the genre.

• 2:48:42David Sims?

  Uh, British epic shit.

• 2:48:44Griffin Newman?

  Oh, is it, um, uh, it's the David Lean one?

• 2:48:47David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:48:48Griffin Newman?

  Which I'm gonna get the title wrong.

• 2:48:49David Sims?

  Go ahead.

• 2:48:49Griffin Newman?

  It's not a river.

• 2:48:51David Sims?

  No.

• 2:48:52Griffin Newman?

  It's a fucking, uh, uh, uh, it's the Judy Davis one. Why am I blanking on the title?

• 2:48:58David Sims?

  The film is called, and Judy Davis is indeed in it, A Passage to Indigo.

• 2:49:01Speaker 03

  Oh, right.

• 2:49:03David Sims?

  With Al Kinnison brown face being normal.

• 2:49:05Griffin Newman?

  One of my favorite anecdotes of all time, Judy Davis fighting with David Lean on the set of the film. And she says, why should I listen to you? What have you done? And he said, I directed Lawrence of Arabia. And Judy Davis's response is, I mean, what have you done lately?

• 2:49:19David Sims?

  Hey, man. Points were made.

• 2:49:22Speaker 03

  Points were made. What is, and this, uh, this is also out of Africa year.

• 2:49:27David Sims?

  Uh, right. Out of Africa will be coming out later.

• 2:49:30Speaker 03

  Africa. Oh, okay. But it was, it's a different awards year.

• 2:49:33David Sims?

  Right. Well, we're in the, we're in February, so we're getting a lot left over from last year. But what are you asking about?

• 2:49:38Speaker 03

  I was asking, um.

• 2:49:39David Sims?

  What if you got?

• 2:49:40Speaker 03

  What is Out of Africa adapted from?

• 2:49:42David Sims?

  A book, a novel by Karen Blixen that I think was about her life.

• 2:49:47Speaker 03

  Okay, so it's not also an Ian Forster.

• 2:49:50David Sims?

  No.

• 2:49:51Speaker 03

  Adaptation. It just has like some more colonial vibes. Okay.

• 2:49:56David Sims?

  Mm-hmm. Uh, and I'm seeing here that Wikipedia page for Out of Africa was supposedly written by ChatGPT, which is I've never seen this warning on Wikipedia before. Where it says this contains hallucinated information, but I understand it because that movie is too boring for someone to actually summarize.

• 2:50:12Griffin Newman?

  They fall asleep.

• 2:50:12David Sims?

  They were like, I don't know, ChatGPT fill in the blanks here.

• 2:50:14Griffin Newman?

  The Wikipedia was just.

• 2:50:15David Sims?

  I assume they were in Africa and they get out or whatever, you know?

• 2:50:18Griffin Newman?

  Previous Wikipedia just dissolved into Z Z Z Z Z Z Z. Yeah.

• 2:50:23David Sims?

  Number five of the box office is a film I don't know. It is apparently a comedy film.

• 2:50:29David Sims?

  It stars Doug McKeon, Chris Nash, Catherine Mary Stewart, and Kelly Preston. I recognize one of those names.

• 2:50:36Griffin Newman?

  Well, that's not helping me a ton. Is this the movie Mischief?

• 2:50:41David Sims?

  There you go.

• 2:50:42Speaker 03

  Wow, look at you.

• 2:50:43David Sims?

  Mischief. The fuck is that?

• 2:50:45Griffin Newman?

  Uh, Kelly Preston does some important work in that film.

• 2:50:48David Sims?

  Oh, I see.

• 2:50:49Griffin Newman?

  I've never seen it.

• 2:50:50Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:50:50David Sims?

  Is she being, uh, is she being sexy in that movie in some way?

• 2:50:53Griffin Newman?

  She's quite, yeah, but so I, yeah.

• 2:50:56David Sims?

  I have no idea.

• 2:50:57Griffin Newman?

  I took a guess that it was a Kelly Preston teen comedy, and that's the one I knew.

• 2:51:01David Sims?

  Interesting. Uh, yeah, I just, I don't know, it's set in the 50s.

• 2:51:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:05David Sims?

  It's about mischief.

• 2:51:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:06David Sims?

  Looks like, kinda like an American Graffiti rip-off-y kinda thing.

• 2:51:09Griffin Newman?

  Really horny.

• 2:51:10David Sims?

  Like a hot rod.

• 2:51:10Griffin Newman?

  Really horny.

• 2:51:12David Sims?

  Um, so Mischief is number five. Number six is a film called The Falcon and the Snowman.

• 2:51:17Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:51:18David Sims?

  Uh, which I feel like is, I mostly know is like a box office game title, but I think it's Martin Sheen? No, Sean Penn.

• 2:51:24Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:51:24David Sims?

  Sean Penn.

• 2:51:25Griffin Newman?

  It's one of his early.

• 2:51:26David Sims?

  Timothy Hutton.

• 2:51:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:51:27David Sims?

  It's like a spy drama.

• 2:51:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:29David Sims?

  Uh, number seven new this week is Heaven Help Us, which is the sort of like, uh, like Catholic, like Kevin Dillon, Andrew McCarthy, Patrick Dempsey, like a bunch of Catholic boys at Catholic school being naughty.

• 2:51:41Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 2:51:42David Sims?

  Never seen it.

• 2:51:43Griffin Newman?

  That sounds fun.

• 2:51:44David Sims?

  Maybe it is.

• 2:51:45Griffin Newman?

  Maybe it rules.

• 2:51:45David Sims?

  I can tell you Donald Sutherland plays a character called Brother Thaddeus.

• 2:51:48Griffin Newman?

  Sounds perfect.

• 2:51:50David Sims?

  Bet you he's grumpy. I assume.

• 2:51:53Griffin Newman?

  They better play pranks on that motherfucker.

• 2:51:55David Sims?

  Uh, number eight, it's just interesting how I gave you a bunch of really famous movies and now I'm giving you like forgotten direct. Number eight is the Gillian Armstrong movie Mrs. Sophol.

• 2:52:04Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 2:52:04David Sims?

  With Diane Keaton and Mel Gibson, which is, I feel like, a sort of like prestige-y film that didn't go over, as much as she's an interesting director.

• 2:52:12Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:52:12David Sims?

  Number nine is last year's best picture, Emma Diaz.

• 2:52:15Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:52:16David Sims?

  And number 10 is something called Tough Turf. T U F F, T U R F.

• 2:52:24Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:52:24David Sims?

  Starring James Spader.

• 2:52:26Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:52:27David Sims?

  Uh, I don't, what the fuck is?

• 2:52:29Griffin Newman?

  This feels like a thrash-in where this episode's gonna come out and we're gonna get 80 DMs from people being like, Tough Turf was the single most important movie of my childhood. I can't believe you guys didn't know about it.

• 2:52:38David Sims?

  It looks like it's sort of a teen movie.

• 2:52:40Speaker 03

  James Spader teen movie that is important to other people. I, yeah, not at the time.

• 2:52:45Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:52:45Speaker 03

  But after the fact, I did the homework.

• 2:52:47David Sims?

  It's kinda like, look, I mean, Ben, it's kinda like a Jersey, oh no, he relocates to Los Angeles, though. I don't know, it's like a punk kid movie, you know, it's like,

• 2:52:56Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:52:57David Sims?

  Kid is punky and sort of on the wrong side of the tracks.

• 2:53:00Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:53:01David Sims?

  I don't know. Apparently Tough Turf is a song.

• 2:53:05Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:53:06David Sims?

  What can I tell you?

• 2:53:07Griffin Newman?

  Witness.

• 2:53:08David Sims?

  It made nine million dollars.

• 2:53:09Griffin Newman?

  Witness.

• 2:53:11David Sims?

  Witness.

• 2:53:11Griffin Newman?

  Is Blood Simple out at the box office at this point in time?

• 2:53:14David Sims?

  Oh, fuck. I don't know. I can look it up. That's one of those things where it's a little hard to find because the numbers doesn't really chart like the tiny release.

• 2:53:21Griffin Newman?

  Hey, look, it's not the only place I'm gonna say it, but I'm gonna say it here. We have been hearing that some high up people at IMDb listen to this podcast now.

• 2:53:30David Sims?

  Oh, really?

• 2:53:31Griffin Newman?

  Our fucking kingdom for box office mojo restored.

• 2:53:35Speaker 03

  I cannot believe what they did to box office mojo.

• 2:53:40David Sims?

  It is, we've, look, we've done this rant before, but it is one of the most straight up flop. Like, you improved nothing, you broke everything.

• 2:53:48Griffin Newman?

  You broke everything. And the numbers, God bless them, they try, it's not, it's not the same. But the fucking integration into IMDb and IMDb Pro, it's just, it doesn't fucking work. And if we can do anything with this platform.

• 2:54:00Speaker 03

  It is a, it's a fuck, it's an outrage.

• 2:54:02Griffin Newman?

  There was an episode, Amanda, I think it was our swing shift episode.

• 2:54:05David Sims?

  Swing shift.

• 2:54:06Griffin Newman?

  Where I asked David to look up a box office stat and in real time, we start spiraling.

• 2:54:11David Sims?

  I'm like, I don't under-

• 2:54:13Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:54:14Speaker 03

  I don't remember the episode, but I do think that this has happened also on the big picture. Where I looked for something and I was just like, what the fuck are we doing?

• 2:54:23David Sims?

  Where are my genres?

• 2:54:24Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:54:24David Sims?

  Where are my keywords? And like- Where's my inflation calculator?

• 2:54:28Griffin Newman?

  Well, that's-

• 2:54:28David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:54:29Speaker 03

  Like, who is, who, who is the new design for? Who is it helping?

• 2:54:33Griffin Newman?

  Nobody, it's fucked everything up.

• 2:54:34David Sims?

  It was just somebody messed up.

• 2:54:37Griffin Newman?

  They like flipped a switch, it was immediately bad and has not improved one iota since then.

• 2:54:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:54:42Griffin Newman?

  They have all the data.

• 2:54:43David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:54:44Griffin Newman?

  Please, if you're listening to this show and you have any power, run this conversation up the chain, especially if you are top of the chain. That's all I'm gonna say.

• 2:54:52David Sims?

  I have to pee so bad.

• 2:54:53Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:54:53David Sims?

  You start wrapping it up, Griffin, while I do this.

• 2:54:56Griffin Newman?

  Amanda, big picture, my favorite podcast.

• 2:54:58Speaker 03

  Thank you, Griffin. Like, you're my favorite podcast.

• 2:55:00Griffin Newman?

  That's very kind of you to say.

• 2:55:01Speaker 03

  Um.

• 2:55:02Griffin Newman?

  This is this nice thing that David does where he goes to the bathroom.

• 2:55:05Speaker 03

  The compliments time, he just leaves. I do also have to pee.

• 2:55:08Griffin Newman?

  I have to pee too.

• 2:55:09Speaker 03

  And then I have to fly back to Los Angeles.

• 2:55:11Griffin Newman?

  Tonight?

• 2:55:12Speaker 03

  This afternoon.

• 2:55:13Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 2:55:14Speaker 03

  Um, yeah, it's, it's this and I'm out. So-

• 2:55:18Griffin Newman?

  Are you a movie watcher on planes?

• 2:55:21Speaker 03

  I probably will be on the way back. I usually save work for the plane of like things that I need to prep for, but-

• 2:55:29Griffin Newman?

  That makes sense.

• 2:55:30Speaker 03

  For whatever reason. I'm free on this plane, so I don't know what I'll do.

• 2:55:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:55:36Speaker 03

  Maybe a little playoff baseball. It's October, everyone.

• 2:55:39Griffin Newman?

  Interesting.

• 2:55:39Speaker 03

  In the current timeline of this podcast.

• 2:55:42Griffin Newman?

  Cause I was gonna say, I've been on too many flights recently. But this time of year, I'm, I, planes, I'm like, oh, let me catch up with the movies I skipped in theaters six months ago that I would never watch under any other circumstances.

• 2:55:56Speaker 03

  And there probably are a couple that I should do, but then I'm already thinking about like all the the movies that are like in theaters that I skipped screenings for that I do need to go see pretty quickly.

• 2:56:07Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:56:07Speaker 03

  You know, and that, and even if I'm not that interested, see Trinaries. So.

• 2:56:13Griffin Newman?

  We must face.

• 2:56:14Speaker 03

  It's like, what if I keep this time for myself?

• 2:56:16Griffin Newman?

  Sure. Not cede it to the movies.

• 2:56:18Speaker 03

  Yeah. And just watch movies that I want to. But in that case, I usually just watch Moneyball for the 45th millionth time. You know what?

• 2:56:24Griffin Newman?

  It's extremely difficult.

• 2:56:26Speaker 03

  Another interesting thing is not, this is not at all interesting. No one cares. So I've been flying some with my children. And so it's impossible to actually like watch a full movie, but I will pick movies that I've seen a bunch of times and can just have on the screen with no dialogue.

• 2:56:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:56:44Speaker 03

  Because I have, I know what's going on. And so I can check in for two minutes if the child is like playing with a toy for 30 seconds.

• 2:56:51Griffin Newman?

  Totally.

• 2:56:52Speaker 03

  So maybe I'll watch a whole movie with audio.

• 2:56:55Griffin Newman?

  This is exciting.

• 2:56:55Speaker 03

  On this flight.

• 2:56:56Griffin Newman?

  This is exciting.

• 2:56:57Speaker 03

  Very exciting. Thank you.

• 2:56:59Griffin Newman?

  Everyone should listen to Big Picture.

• 2:57:00Speaker 03

  Yes, please do.

• 2:57:01Griffin Newman?

  Everyone should listen to Jam Session.

• 2:57:03Speaker 03

  Thank you so much.

• 2:57:04Griffin Newman?

  You're the best. Dob Mob for life.

• 2:57:07Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 2:57:08Griffin Newman?

  I feel like we put a couple of things on, on the, on the cork board as Amanda episodes.

• 2:57:14David Sims?

  Oh, sure.

• 2:57:15Griffin Newman?

  Locked if we ever get to them. We're always gonna be on the lookout for any excuse to get you back there.

• 2:57:20Speaker 03

  Okay, I'm, I would love to come and I, I'm, I'm gonna be back in New York more. Or you guys could come to Los Angeles.

• 2:57:26Griffin Newman?

  It's about this guy.

• 2:57:27David Sims?

  I don't think so.

• 2:57:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:57:28Griffin Newman?

  It's about this guy.

• 2:57:29David Sims?

  It's about my three children.

• 2:57:30Speaker 03

  I mean, I get it.

• 2:57:31Griffin Newman?

  Three children? First I'm hearing of this.

• 2:57:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:57:33Griffin Newman?

  Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Tune in next week for Mosquito Coast.

• 2:57:40David Sims?

  Mosquito Coast is next week, baby.

• 2:57:42Griffin Newman?

  Let's call it. With Sean Fanci.

• 2:57:43David Sims?

  Unless he, you know. Like Marty Supreme Hayes just sort of like crashes out in the streets of New York.

• 2:57:50Griffin Newman?

  Unless something crazy happens in the next 24 hours.

• 2:57:53David Sims?

  Sean's very reliable and organized, I would say.

• 2:57:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:57:55David Sims?

  Sort of his vibe. Yeah, not a chaotic vibe.

• 2:57:58Speaker 03

  Yes, lined up. He shows up.

• 2:58:00David Sims?

  And I think he's excited. So he's coming to us from the Criterion Collection. I know that. He's doing an early morning.

• 2:58:06Griffin Newman?

  He's gonna come bags full, three bags full.

• 2:58:09David Sims?

  One assumes. One assumes.

• 2:58:12Griffin Newman?

  And as always, Hasbro's Indiana Jones Adventure Series line has a gimmick where each of the figures comes with a piece of an artifact. So I end up having to buy a bunch of figures I don't want to put the things together. So I just want you to know that you are the proud beneficiary of Shirtless.

• 2:58:32Speaker 03

  Thank you, Hasbro, for the first and last time in my life.

• 2:58:41Speaker 03

  You want me to ask any more questions about Lord of the Rings?

• 2:58:45David Sims?

  Please. Yeah, any other questions?

• 2:58:46Speaker 03

  Sure. So Gollum, what's up? What is he?

• 2:58:50Griffin Newman?

  Well, I know this. He was a hobbit.

• 2:58:52David Sims?

  Yeah, he was a sort of proto hobbit. Yeah, exactly.

• 2:58:55Speaker 03

  And he got corrupted?

• 2:58:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:58:56David Sims?

  He finds the.

• 2:58:57Speaker 03

  Like morally or like a file?

• 2:58:59Griffin Newman?

  Rings so powerful make you go crazy.

• 2:59:01David Sims?

  Griff ain't wrong.

• 2:59:02Speaker 03

  No, I did see that.

• 2:59:03David Sims?

  Griff ain't wrong. The ring both extends. You're like, what I like about the ring metaphor, right, is like that it's like, he's alive because it keeps you alive. But imagine if you just didn't die. Like, you would become this like monster, right? Like, you're supposed to be dead, probably.

• 2:59:18Speaker 03

  So how old is Gollum?

• 2:59:20David Sims?

  Great, actually. Okay, Gollum age. Because it's like, he's 600 years old.

• 2:59:24Griffin Newman?

  Dang.

• 2:59:25David Sims?

  Because the idea is that he recovers the ring right when it gets chopped off Sauron's hand. And then he's basically just been living in a cave, wearing the ring. Oh, he mostly doesn't wear it. He just touches it.

• 2:59:34Griffin Newman?

  We're gonna answer all these questions with Lord of the Rings colon the search for Gollum.

• 2:59:39David Sims?

  The hunt for Gollum, or whatever it's called. Is the weed indica or sativa or a hybrid? What would you say? Do they, do they ever shout that out? Is that figured out in like any of the? I would say Pipeweed is supposed to be more of a tobacco, like than a, you know, a marijuana.

• 2:59:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but have you looked at Gandalf's eyes lately?

• 3:00:00David Sims?

  You know that meme of Gandalf where he's like? Gandalf sees like an indigood guy.

• 3:00:03Speaker 03

  Gandalf?

• 3:00:03David Sims?

  He needs to chill.

• 3:00:05Griffin Newman?

  Wizard.

• 3:00:05David Sims?

  No, is a wizard.

• 3:00:06Speaker 03

  Oh shit, of course, sorry.

• 3:00:08David Sims?

  Uh, but Gandalf is basically like sort of an emissary from the gods.

• 3:00:11Speaker 03

  What are the politics in Lord of the Rings world of wizard and elves?

• 3:00:16David Sims?

  You mean like Democrat Republican?

• 3:00:17Speaker 03

  Well, like related to, related to the politics and the Harry Potter, you know?

• 3:00:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Saruman's kind of like a Joe Rogan. Who's created a manosphere of acolytes and maybe Saruman is like.

• 3:00:30Speaker 03

  I'm, I'm peculiarly aware of the elves because the elf in the, the elf who fights for elves' rights in Harry Potter is named Dobby, which like people tried to call him from time to time.

• 3:00:40David Sims?

  Big fan.

• 3:00:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but you know, so I know that's like a fraught topic with, and that's the only fraught topic in the Harry Potter universe. It's the only, um, example of bad politics.

• 3:00:52David Sims?

  Well, no, the thing, right, the thing in the house elves in, uh, in Potter, that's sort of interesting, huh?

• 3:00:58Griffin Newman?

  But they're slaves. The whole thing is like.

• 3:01:00David Sims?

  But like, what's interesting about it is that Rowling, you know, the, the author of Harry Potter, uh, does investigate, like it's, you know, I like that Hermione is like, this seems fucked up to me.

• 3:01:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:01:11Speaker 03

  Right.

• 3:01:11David Sims?

  Cause it seems totally fucked. And everyone else, it's kind of like the wizarding version of like homelessness where everyone else is like, oh, I don't know. That's just like how it is. I haven't really thought about it.

• 3:01:19Speaker 03

  Right.

• 3:01:20David Sims?

  Whereas then in Harry Potter, there's the goblins and they're like, what's up with goblins? So it's like, they're kind of greedy.

• 3:01:25Speaker 03

  It's true.

• 3:01:26Griffin Newman?

  Hook no, money one day.

• 3:01:27Speaker 03

  They run the banks. Yeah.

• 3:01:29David Sims?

  We don't trust them.

• 3:01:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, they don't like working on Friday.

• 3:01:33David Sims?

  I mean, in book seven, there's finally a little bit of like, a goblin gets to speak and is like, we, you, you steal our shit. Like, we're goblins and you've like stolen like goblin, you know, treasures.

• 3:01:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:01:45Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 3:01:45David Sims?

  But it's a little late, like for her to be like, oh yeah, goblins, they have rights maybe. I don't know.

• 3:01:50Speaker 03

  All right. So elves versus wizards.

• 3:01:53David Sims?

  But in, in Lord of the Rings.

• 3:01:53Speaker 03

  Do they work together? Are they?

• 3:01:56David Sims?

  I'm sorry, in which world are we talking?

• 3:01:57Speaker 03

  Lord of the Rings.

• 3:01:58David Sims?

  In Lord of the Rings elves, so like the elves are like the first.

• 3:02:01Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 3:02:02David Sims?

  It's like God makes elves, right? And puts them on Middle Earth and they're beautiful and immortal. And like eventually man shows up like thousands and thousands of years later and it's like a completely different kind of thing.

• 3:02:14Griffin Newman?

  Am I wrong in thinking that the elves are born magical and the wizards are humans who learn magic?

• 3:02:20David Sims?

  You are wrong.

• 3:02:21Griffin Newman?

  Fuck.

• 3:02:22David Sims?

  You are wrong. Uh, in, in the Lord of the Rings, there's, the wizards are just Istari, which is just like, they're, they're gods. They, they are, they are, there's only six or seven of them and they've been put on Middle Earth by God.

• 3:02:35Speaker 03

  Is there a-

• 3:02:36David Sims?

  To like, serve as sort of an emissary.

• 3:02:38Speaker 03

  Is there a higher and a lower earth?

• 3:02:40David Sims?

  Great question. No?

• 3:02:42Speaker 03

  No?

• 3:02:43David Sims?

  And I don't really know how he sort of came to Middle Earth.

• 3:02:46Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 3:02:47David Sims?

  I don't really know why is it called Middle Earth.

• 3:02:49Griffin Newman?

  But if I'm Amazon, I'm licking my lips and going, there's story potential here.

• 3:02:53David Sims?

  Five seasons, 500 million dollars.

• 3:02:55Griffin Newman?

  What's above, what's below?

• 3:02:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:02:57David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, I don't know. It's a translation of the old English word midingard. I don't know.

• 3:03:02Griffin Newman?

  Okay. By the time this episode comes out, it will probably be settled matter, but the recent story that Amazon is running the numbers on if it is cheaper for them to not continue making the show.

• 3:03:13Speaker 03

  Really good.

• 3:03:14Griffin Newman?

  And pay the Tolkien estate like 200 million dollars in penalties to not make it anymore.

• 3:03:20David Sims?

  I mean, their continued insistence on making that show and being like, people watch and like this, like, is getting increasingly delusional.

• 3:03:29Griffin Newman?

  They have sunk so much money.

• 3:03:31David Sims?

  I think season three-

• 3:03:32Griffin Newman?

  And they will have to pay so much to give up.

• 3:03:34David Sims?

  Season three is filming and is happening, but I think after that, they may have to.

• 3:03:38Griffin Newman?

  They, right, contractually, they have to do five seasons or pay a lot of money if they bail sooner.

• 3:03:45Speaker 03

  Right.

• 3:03:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:03:46David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 3:03:47Speaker 03

  Incredible.

• 3:03:47David Sims?

  Good stuff. I've seen every episode inexplicably.

• 3:03:53David Sims?

  Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hostly. Our creative producer is Marie Bardi Salinas, and our associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lain Montgomery and the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ali Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check Special Features for exclusive franchise commentaries

• 3:04:36David Sims?

  and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at Blank Check Pod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.