Pod Insights Betrayal Updates from Ember, Natalie, and Stephanie | BONUS | Saskia’s Story About this episode Ember, Natalie, and Stephanie’s stories aren’t over. Here’s where they are today.
Content Warning for rape, tech-enabled sexual abuse, nonconsensual intimate image distribution, mental health struggles, and chronic illness.
If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at [email protected] mailto:[email protected] and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod https://www.instagram.com/betrayalpod/ and @glasspodcasts https://www.instagram.com/glasspodcasts/. Follow our newsletter and join the Betrayal community at betrayal.substack.com. https://betrayal.substack.com/welcome
For resources on sexual violence, visit rainn.org/betrayal http://www.rainn.org/Betrayal?utm_source=partner&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=betrayal_2026&utm_content=web_resource&utm_term=general. You can also get free, confidential, 24/7 support through RAINN’s National Sexual Assault Hotline. Text HOPE to 64673 or call 1-800-656-HOPE.
Every state has a domestic violence coalition, and many counties also have resources available. If you’re looking for help, go onto your county’s website to see what resources are available locally, or search the web for your state’s domestic violence coalition.
See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcript 0:00 Speaker 00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
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2:11 Speaker 00 I'm Andrea Gunning and this is a bonus episode of Betrayal.
2:17 Speaker 00 In season five, episode seven, we introduced you to three other survivors of intimate partner violence. Their stories were strikingly similar to Saskia's. Unlike Saskia, they've each rebuilt in the aftermath of what happened to them. We wanted to give you some updates on where these survivors are today. So let's start with Amber. Remember, her fiance John was drugging and raping her. He confessed everything to their pastor.
2:45 Speaker 03 The pastor goes, "How often has this happened?" He goes, "This has happened probably once a week, almost the whole time we've been engaged."
2:55 Speaker 00 Still, she planned to stay in the relationship to try to make it work. But then, she had a chance encounter with John's therapist. He broke a major rule of his profession by telling her-
3:08 Speaker 03 "We've run through a series of diagnostic tests on your fiance. He's not a safe person. He's officially diagnosed as a sociopath, and you should get as far away from him as possible." That was kind of the point where I was like, "I can't marry this man."
3:27 Speaker 00 This is the moment where, back in episode seven, we paused the story. But we want to tell you what happened next. Even after hearing from John's therapist and ending the relationship, Amber didn't seriously consider going to the police. What mattered to her was ensuring that John didn't hurt other people, and she felt that that was possible without John serving time.
3:52 Speaker 03 I said, "I'm not going to press charges. I'm not going to go to the police as long as you continue getting the help you need to heal so you don't do this to other people." And he said, "Okay, yeah, of course, obviously, I'm gonna do that."
4:08 Speaker 00 But before long, Amber heard through mutual friends that John stopped going to therapy. And whatever treatment he had received hadn't worked.
4:17 Speaker 03 A friend of ours observed him drugging somebody else, called me and was like, "Things are not better. This is escalating." And so that's when I went to the police.
4:28 Speaker 00 But reporting this crime was far from straightforward.
4:31 Speaker 03 Retraumatizing, I guess, would be the best word for it.
4:35 Speaker 03 I was still struggling to put the pieces together. I don't remember everything because I did dissociate and there are aspects that I don't recall.
4:44 Speaker 00 As a reminder, not only was John drugging Amber, she was dissociating during his attacks. Her mind went completely dark as a way of protecting itself from harm. Her memories were cloudy at best. So when she went to the cops, they dismissed her.
5:00 Speaker 03 And they're like, "We can't really use your testimony. Like, we need this happened at this time and where it happened."
5:09 Speaker 00 On top of that, Amber didn't have the physical evidence necessary to file charges.
5:15 Speaker 03 I didn't have a stain exam done right after the attack. I didn't have a drug panel done to prove that there was anything in my system. I just had his words to a pastor in a room that that had taken place. They're like, "The best we can do is a temporary order of restraint." And even then, once that's up, you kind of have to reapply for it. In order to reapply for it, you have to prove that he's trying to contact you. And so you can't just have this indefinitely. And it was just really disheartening of like, I have no legal ability to protect myself. I had to wait for him to hurt someone else or hurt me in order to prove that he's a dangerous person.
5:54 Speaker 00 Amber's case was at a standstill.
5:56 Speaker 03 That is the most heartbreaking part of our legal system as it stands. You have real victims being courageous enough to come forward and then nothing can be done. And you're like, "Well, then what's even the point of being courageous?"
6:15 Speaker 00 John was never brought to justice, but that didn't stop Amber from moving forward with her life. Today, it's been 20 years since she was raped.
6:24 Speaker 03 And when I hit that 20-year anniversary, it was very like, whoo, I'm where I wanted to be.
6:32 Speaker 00 She did finally get married to a man she trusts. They have two sons, and she has a great career.
6:39 Speaker 03 I've been working with survivors kind of as a direct result of what I've been through.
6:44 Speaker 00 She supports victims of sex trafficking and sexual exploitation, especially in creating longer-term safety plans.
6:52 Speaker 03 The statistics tell us that 80% of survivors of either trafficking or exploitation will be revictimized within a year if they don't have restorative help alongside them. So that isn't just like rescue and hope for the best, or recover and hope for the best. You really do have to walk alongside them and really giving them the tools. They need to identify safe and unsafe people to understand trauma and how that affects us day in and day out.
7:21 Speaker 00 Assisting other survivors has helped Amber on her own journey.
7:26 Speaker 03 I've been able to bear witness to so many other amazing stories that have been healing for me and helpful for me, too.
7:35 Speaker 00 She encourages other survivors to reach out to trained professionals for this kind of help. No one has to hold this pain alone.
7:43 Speaker 03 The instinct is to hide, is to run away from anyone who can observe that pain. And in reality, you need to lean in and you need to show what is happening. You need to reveal and drag it into the light so it doesn't keep thriving in the darkness.
8:03 Speaker 00 Next, we want to share the rest of Natalie's story.
8:08 Speaker 00 She was pregnant when she found graphic sexual material created and posted by her husband, Stephen.
8:14 Speaker 04 You can see his hands, his wedding ring, and then I realized that I am in these images.
8:23 Speaker 00 It's been over 12 years since that moment. For a long time, after she moved out and got a divorce, she mostly kept what she discovered to herself.
8:33 Speaker 04 The shame was really unbearable. Like, who am I gonna tell this to?
8:40 Speaker 00 On top of the shame, she felt like she had to keep quiet for the sake of her kids. Stephen's voice was still in her head. He was their dad.
8:49 Speaker 04 I didn't want my kids to grow up in a divorced or like a single-family home. I was ashamed of that, too, and it was like the stigma of everything. And I look back now and I think it's not silly, but you know, that was my mindset at the time.
9:03 Speaker 00 So for many years, Stephen's secret was her secret. They continued to co-parent, trading off time with their kids, but Stephen would often push the boundaries they'd agreed on.
9:16 Speaker 04 He would ask me, "I know you're not working today and you have the kids, but I'd like to see them, can we do something together?" And I would still agree to it.
9:26 Speaker 04 Sometimes he would even come to my house and just knock on the door and just say, "Come in my house." And I just wanted to see the kids. I'm like, "You can't just do that." And my son would be like, "Oh, hey, Dad, hey, Mom, can Dad come in or can Dad eat with us?" And I'm like, "Okay." And I would always give in. I thought it was really better for the kids.
9:48 Speaker 00 It took her a while to see she needed to prioritize herself. That was how to be the best mom she could be.
9:55 Speaker 04 He shouldn't be this comfortable. I don't have to let him do that. Eventually, I'm like, "No, enough. You're not gonna do this anymore."
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13:27 Speaker 00 Over time, Natalie started setting firmer boundaries, gaining confidence. And slowly, she began opening up to people about what her ex-husband Stephen did. One of those people was her best friend, who was also her ex-sister-in-law. If you'll recall, Stephen was Natalie's best friend's brother. Back when Stephen and Natalie separated, Natalie protected her friend from the truth.
13:54 Speaker 04 I didn't want her to know. I didn't want that to change her relationship with her brother. But years later, I ended up telling her.
14:06 Speaker 00 Sadly, her friend came to Stephen's defense.
14:10 Speaker 04 She didn't want to believe that I was drugged or that he was doing anything like that, that I was probably misunderstanding.
14:18 Speaker 04 She chose really victim blaming. That's another just big blow to me.
14:26 Speaker 00 But there were people who were there for her and who continue to be there for Natalie to this day, like her sisters, her friends, and her therapist.
14:35 Speaker 04 Talking about it and sharing my secret and letting this go and not caring so much of it really helped.
14:45 Speaker 00 With the support she's received, she's learned how to trust other people again. She's even had romantic relationships, including a fiance who believed her without hesitation or judgment.
14:56 Speaker 04 He's been continuously supportive of my process and has helped me feel safe in my trauma.
15:04 Speaker 00 She's also now in a place where, after 12 years, she's considering reporting Stephen to the authorities. Even after all this time, she's held on to all the evidence of what he did.
15:17 Speaker 04 I have my son's tablet. I have memory cards. And I have old cell phones that I just have saved. I have not gone back and looked at. And I feel like I'm ready to.
15:29 Speaker 00 Recently, she contacted her local rape crisis center to talk through her options legally.
15:35 Speaker 04 Just having someone who understands my slow process and can give me legal advice on what I could do about that is helpful. It's been hard for me to accept, like, I don't have to put everybody first all the time. What I feel matters. My struggles matter and what I'm going through matters. So I have to stop protecting him and follow through with what I've been wanting to do for years.
16:01 Speaker 00 None of this feels easy, and Natalie still has a lot of hard days. But that secret, Stephen's secret, doesn't weigh on her like it once did.
16:11 Speaker 04 I remember thinking about it like this huge elephant that I was trying to hide behind me, like by standing in front of it. That's how I felt on the inside. Now, it's like the elephant is just further and further and further away from me.
16:31 Speaker 00 Lastly, I want to give an update on Stephanie. She found something terrifying on her husband's computer. He had a Flickr account that was filled with nude photos of me. Hundreds of pictures. We first met her in 2023, when Betrayal Weekly was just an idea. Her story became the show's first two episodes. Back then, she talked about how her discovery affected her relationship with her body.
17:00 Speaker 00 When I was married, I had longish hair and I wore very feminine clothing. And in the days following finding out, I cut off all my hair. And I wore very plain, baggy, nondescript clothing. Today, a lot has changed. In the few years since we met her, Stephanie's gained a better sense of why she needed to alter her appearance. I saw so many of the images, the photos that he took.
17:38 Speaker 00 And so my trauma was very rooted in the sight of my face and my body. And so in those couple of years after I discovered what he was doing, the sight of my own face and my own body was very triggering for me. It was very difficult to even change my clothes or take a shower. By not taking care of myself, cutting my hair short, and by wearing the baggy clothing, I could keep myself safe from seeing myself.
18:22 Speaker 00 And since the podcast and as I have continued with therapy and yoga, I have been able to reclaim myself again. I'm growing my hair out again. I actually make a little effort with my clothing. And when I catch a glimpse of myself in the mirror, it's like, oh, that's actually me. I look like me again. She's dedicated herself to being an advocate, telling her story in the hopes that new victims will feel less alone. I strongly believe that this is happening to lots of other women out there,
19:06 Speaker 00 and they just don't know it yet. And as these women start to discover what's being done to them, I want them to have a softer landing than I had, to have some resources so they don't feel like they are screaming into the void, saying, am I the only person in the world that this ever happened to? She also wants those people to know that there is life to live after a crime like this. For a long time, I thought the dirtiest, most foul word in the human language was "hope." Fuck hope. There was no hope.
19:49 Speaker 00 And now, yeah, I can be hopeful.
20:01 Speaker 00 For resources on sexual violence, visit rainn.org/betrayal. That's R-A-I-N-N dot org slash betrayal. You can also get free confidential 24/7 support through RAINN's National Sexual Assault Hotline. Just text "hope" to 64673, or call 1-800-656-HOPE. You are not alone. If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal team or want to tell us your story, email us at [email protected] . That is [email protected] . Or follow us on Instagram @betrayalpod. To access additional content and to connect with the Betrayal community,
20:45 Speaker 00 join our Substack at betrayal.substack.com. We're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five-star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Caitlin Golden, with additional production by Olivia Hewitt. Our supervising producer is Carrie Hartman.
21:25 Speaker 00 Our story editor is Monique LaBord, also produced by Ben Fetterman. Our associate producer is Lea Jablow. Production management by Kristin Melchiori. Additional support by Curry Richmond.
21:40 Speaker 00 Our iHeart team is Ally Perry and Jessica Krychek. Audio editing by Tanner Robbins, with additional editing and mixing by Matt Dalvecchio. Special thanks to Saskia, her friends and family, and special thanks to Will Pearson and Carrie Lieberman. Betrayal's theme is composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by MyB Music. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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