Updates from Ember, Natalie, and Stephanie | BONUS | Saskia’s Story

Ember, Natalie, and Stephanie’s stories aren’t over. Here’s where they are today. Content Warning for rape, tech-enabled sexual abuse, nonconsensual intimate image distribution, mental health struggles, and chronic illness. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at [email protected] mailto:[email protected] and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod https://www.instagram.com/betrayalpod/ and @glasspodcasts https://www.instagram.com/glasspodcasts/. Follow our newsletter and join the Betrayal community at betrayal.substack.com. https://betrayal.substack.com/welcome For resources on sexual violence, visit rainn.org/betrayal http://www.rainn.org/Betrayal?utm_source=partner&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=betrayal_2026&utm_content=web_resource&utm_term=general. You can also get free, confidential, 24/7 support through RAINN’s National Sexual Assault Hotline. Text HOPE to 64673 or call 1-800-656-HOPE. Every state has a domestic violence coalition, and many counties also have resources available. If you’re looking for help, go onto your county’s website to see what resources are available locally, or search the web for your state’s domestic violence coalition. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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  I'm Andrea Gunning and this is a bonus episode of Betrayal.

• 2:17Speaker 00

  In season five, episode seven, we introduced you to three other survivors of intimate partner violence. Their stories were strikingly similar to Saskia's. Unlike Saskia, they've each rebuilt in the aftermath of what happened to them. We wanted to give you some updates on where these survivors are today. So let's start with Amber. Remember, her fiance John was drugging and raping her. He confessed everything to their pastor.

• 2:45Speaker 03

  The pastor goes, "How often has this happened?" He goes, "This has happened probably once a week, almost the whole time we've been engaged."

• 2:55Speaker 00

  Still, she planned to stay in the relationship to try to make it work. But then, she had a chance encounter with John's therapist. He broke a major rule of his profession by telling her-

• 3:08Speaker 03

  "We've run through a series of diagnostic tests on your fiance. He's not a safe person. He's officially diagnosed as a sociopath, and you should get as far away from him as possible." That was kind of the point where I was like, "I can't marry this man."

• 3:27Speaker 00

  This is the moment where, back in episode seven, we paused the story. But we want to tell you what happened next. Even after hearing from John's therapist and ending the relationship, Amber didn't seriously consider going to the police. What mattered to her was ensuring that John didn't hurt other people, and she felt that that was possible without John serving time.

• 3:52Speaker 03

  I said, "I'm not going to press charges. I'm not going to go to the police as long as you continue getting the help you need to heal so you don't do this to other people." And he said, "Okay, yeah, of course, obviously, I'm gonna do that."

• 4:08Speaker 00

  But before long, Amber heard through mutual friends that John stopped going to therapy. And whatever treatment he had received hadn't worked.

• 4:17Speaker 03

  A friend of ours observed him drugging somebody else, called me and was like, "Things are not better. This is escalating." And so that's when I went to the police.

• 4:28Speaker 00

  But reporting this crime was far from straightforward.

• 4:31Speaker 03

  Retraumatizing, I guess, would be the best word for it.

• 4:35Speaker 03

  I was still struggling to put the pieces together. I don't remember everything because I did dissociate and there are aspects that I don't recall.

• 4:44Speaker 00

  As a reminder, not only was John drugging Amber, she was dissociating during his attacks. Her mind went completely dark as a way of protecting itself from harm. Her memories were cloudy at best. So when she went to the cops, they dismissed her.

• 5:00Speaker 03

  And they're like, "We can't really use your testimony. Like, we need this happened at this time and where it happened."

• 5:09Speaker 00

  On top of that, Amber didn't have the physical evidence necessary to file charges.

• 5:15Speaker 03

  I didn't have a stain exam done right after the attack. I didn't have a drug panel done to prove that there was anything in my system. I just had his words to a pastor in a room that that had taken place. They're like, "The best we can do is a temporary order of restraint." And even then, once that's up, you kind of have to reapply for it. In order to reapply for it, you have to prove that he's trying to contact you. And so you can't just have this indefinitely. And it was just really disheartening of like, I have no legal ability to protect myself. I had to wait for him to hurt someone else or hurt me in order to prove that he's a dangerous person.

• 5:54Speaker 00

  Amber's case was at a standstill.

• 5:56Speaker 03

  That is the most heartbreaking part of our legal system as it stands. You have real victims being courageous enough to come forward and then nothing can be done. And you're like, "Well, then what's even the point of being courageous?"

• 6:15Speaker 00

  John was never brought to justice, but that didn't stop Amber from moving forward with her life. Today, it's been 20 years since she was raped.

• 6:24Speaker 03

  And when I hit that 20-year anniversary, it was very like, whoo, I'm where I wanted to be.

• 6:32Speaker 00

  She did finally get married to a man she trusts. They have two sons, and she has a great career.

• 6:39Speaker 03

  I've been working with survivors kind of as a direct result of what I've been through.

• 6:44Speaker 00

  She supports victims of sex trafficking and sexual exploitation, especially in creating longer-term safety plans.

• 6:52Speaker 03

  The statistics tell us that 80% of survivors of either trafficking or exploitation will be revictimized within a year if they don't have restorative help alongside them. So that isn't just like rescue and hope for the best, or recover and hope for the best. You really do have to walk alongside them and really giving them the tools. They need to identify safe and unsafe people to understand trauma and how that affects us day in and day out.

• 7:21Speaker 00

  Assisting other survivors has helped Amber on her own journey.

• 7:26Speaker 03

  I've been able to bear witness to so many other amazing stories that have been healing for me and helpful for me, too.

• 7:35Speaker 00

  She encourages other survivors to reach out to trained professionals for this kind of help. No one has to hold this pain alone.

• 7:43Speaker 03

  The instinct is to hide, is to run away from anyone who can observe that pain. And in reality, you need to lean in and you need to show what is happening. You need to reveal and drag it into the light so it doesn't keep thriving in the darkness.

• 8:03Speaker 00

  Next, we want to share the rest of Natalie's story.

• 8:08Speaker 00

  She was pregnant when she found graphic sexual material created and posted by her husband, Stephen.

• 8:14Speaker 04

  You can see his hands, his wedding ring, and then I realized that I am in these images.

• 8:23Speaker 00

  It's been over 12 years since that moment. For a long time, after she moved out and got a divorce, she mostly kept what she discovered to herself.

• 8:33Speaker 04

  The shame was really unbearable. Like, who am I gonna tell this to?

• 8:40Speaker 00

  On top of the shame, she felt like she had to keep quiet for the sake of her kids. Stephen's voice was still in her head. He was their dad.

• 8:49Speaker 04

  I didn't want my kids to grow up in a divorced or like a single-family home. I was ashamed of that, too, and it was like the stigma of everything. And I look back now and I think it's not silly, but you know, that was my mindset at the time.

• 9:03Speaker 00

  So for many years, Stephen's secret was her secret. They continued to co-parent, trading off time with their kids, but Stephen would often push the boundaries they'd agreed on.

• 9:16Speaker 04

  He would ask me, "I know you're not working today and you have the kids, but I'd like to see them, can we do something together?" And I would still agree to it.

• 9:26Speaker 04

  Sometimes he would even come to my house and just knock on the door and just say, "Come in my house." And I just wanted to see the kids. I'm like, "You can't just do that." And my son would be like, "Oh, hey, Dad, hey, Mom, can Dad come in or can Dad eat with us?" And I'm like, "Okay." And I would always give in. I thought it was really better for the kids.

• 9:48Speaker 00

  It took her a while to see she needed to prioritize herself. That was how to be the best mom she could be.

• 9:55Speaker 04

  He shouldn't be this comfortable. I don't have to let him do that. Eventually, I'm like, "No, enough. You're not gonna do this anymore."

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  You know the saying, "Knowledge is power"? Well, it's a lot more than that. Knowledge can be growth, security, opportunity. And no one knows that better than Southern New Hampshire University. That's why they offer over 200 online degree programs designed to help you reach your goals. Set yourself up for success or get ready to pivot into something new. No matter your program, you'll learn practical, career-focused skills you can use on the job. And don't worry, getting your degree online doesn't mean doing it alone. Southern New Hampshire University has some of the best student support and online education. From day one to graduation, you'll have friendly, knowledgeable people to help you with everything,

• 11:33Speaker 00

  from applying and financial aid to tutoring and career development. At Southern New Hampshire University, knowledge can be life-changing. Get started at SNHU.edu/betrayal. That's SNHU.edu/betrayal. This is Joel Larsgaard from How To Money. As someone who travels a lot for work, I really appreciate a premium airport experience. With the Delta SkyMiles Reserve Business American Express Card, it truly feels like you can have it all. For a limited time, new Delta SkyMiles Reserve Business Card members can earn 200,000 bonus miles, the highest miles offered this year. Yeah, card members can also enjoy 15 visits to the Delta Sky Club each medallion year when flying Delta, and you can unlock unlimited Delta Sky Club access

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• 13:27Speaker 00

  Over time, Natalie started setting firmer boundaries, gaining confidence. And slowly, she began opening up to people about what her ex-husband Stephen did. One of those people was her best friend, who was also her ex-sister-in-law. If you'll recall, Stephen was Natalie's best friend's brother. Back when Stephen and Natalie separated, Natalie protected her friend from the truth.

• 13:54Speaker 04

  I didn't want her to know. I didn't want that to change her relationship with her brother. But years later, I ended up telling her.

• 14:06Speaker 00

  Sadly, her friend came to Stephen's defense.

• 14:10Speaker 04

  She didn't want to believe that I was drugged or that he was doing anything like that, that I was probably misunderstanding.

• 14:18Speaker 04

  She chose really victim blaming. That's another just big blow to me.

• 14:26Speaker 00

  But there were people who were there for her and who continue to be there for Natalie to this day, like her sisters, her friends, and her therapist.

• 14:35Speaker 04

  Talking about it and sharing my secret and letting this go and not caring so much of it really helped.

• 14:45Speaker 00

  With the support she's received, she's learned how to trust other people again. She's even had romantic relationships, including a fiance who believed her without hesitation or judgment.

• 14:56Speaker 04

  He's been continuously supportive of my process and has helped me feel safe in my trauma.

• 15:04Speaker 00

  She's also now in a place where, after 12 years, she's considering reporting Stephen to the authorities. Even after all this time, she's held on to all the evidence of what he did.

• 15:17Speaker 04

  I have my son's tablet. I have memory cards. And I have old cell phones that I just have saved. I have not gone back and looked at. And I feel like I'm ready to.

• 15:29Speaker 00

  Recently, she contacted her local rape crisis center to talk through her options legally.

• 15:35Speaker 04

  Just having someone who understands my slow process and can give me legal advice on what I could do about that is helpful. It's been hard for me to accept, like, I don't have to put everybody first all the time. What I feel matters. My struggles matter and what I'm going through matters. So I have to stop protecting him and follow through with what I've been wanting to do for years.

• 16:01Speaker 00

  None of this feels easy, and Natalie still has a lot of hard days. But that secret, Stephen's secret, doesn't weigh on her like it once did.

• 16:11Speaker 04

  I remember thinking about it like this huge elephant that I was trying to hide behind me, like by standing in front of it. That's how I felt on the inside. Now, it's like the elephant is just further and further and further away from me.

• 16:31Speaker 00

  Lastly, I want to give an update on Stephanie. She found something terrifying on her husband's computer. He had a Flickr account that was filled with nude photos of me. Hundreds of pictures. We first met her in 2023, when Betrayal Weekly was just an idea. Her story became the show's first two episodes. Back then, she talked about how her discovery affected her relationship with her body.

• 17:00Speaker 00

  When I was married, I had longish hair and I wore very feminine clothing. And in the days following finding out, I cut off all my hair. And I wore very plain, baggy, nondescript clothing. Today, a lot has changed. In the few years since we met her, Stephanie's gained a better sense of why she needed to alter her appearance. I saw so many of the images, the photos that he took.

• 17:38Speaker 00

  And so my trauma was very rooted in the sight of my face and my body. And so in those couple of years after I discovered what he was doing, the sight of my own face and my own body was very triggering for me. It was very difficult to even change my clothes or take a shower. By not taking care of myself, cutting my hair short, and by wearing the baggy clothing, I could keep myself safe from seeing myself.

• 18:22Speaker 00

  And since the podcast and as I have continued with therapy and yoga, I have been able to reclaim myself again. I'm growing my hair out again. I actually make a little effort with my clothing. And when I catch a glimpse of myself in the mirror, it's like, oh, that's actually me. I look like me again. She's dedicated herself to being an advocate, telling her story in the hopes that new victims will feel less alone. I strongly believe that this is happening to lots of other women out there,

• 19:06Speaker 00

  and they just don't know it yet. And as these women start to discover what's being done to them, I want them to have a softer landing than I had, to have some resources so they don't feel like they are screaming into the void, saying, am I the only person in the world that this ever happened to? She also wants those people to know that there is life to live after a crime like this. For a long time, I thought the dirtiest, most foul word in the human language was "hope." Fuck hope. There was no hope.

• 19:49Speaker 00

  And now, yeah, I can be hopeful.

• 20:01Speaker 00

  For resources on sexual violence, visit rainn.org/betrayal. That's R-A-I-N-N dot org slash betrayal. You can also get free confidential 24/7 support through RAINN's National Sexual Assault Hotline. Just text "hope" to 64673, or call 1-800-656-HOPE. You are not alone. If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal team or want to tell us your story, email us at [email protected]. That is [email protected]. Or follow us on Instagram @betrayalpod. To access additional content and to connect with the Betrayal community,

• 20:45Speaker 00

  join our Substack at betrayal.substack.com. We're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five-star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Caitlin Golden, with additional production by Olivia Hewitt. Our supervising producer is Carrie Hartman.

• 21:25Speaker 00

  Our story editor is Monique LaBord, also produced by Ben Fetterman. Our associate producer is Lea Jablow. Production management by Kristin Melchiori. Additional support by Curry Richmond.

• 21:40Speaker 00

  Our iHeart team is Ally Perry and Jessica Krychek. Audio editing by Tanner Robbins, with additional editing and mixing by Matt Dalvecchio. Special thanks to Saskia, her friends and family, and special thanks to Will Pearson and Carrie Lieberman. Betrayal's theme is composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by MyB Music. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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