Guillermo del Toro

Guillermo del Toro (Pan’s Labyrinth, Frankenstein, The Shape of Water) is an Academy Award-winning director, screenwriter, and producer. Guillermo joins Armchair Expert to discuss his dad winning the lottery twice, diagnosing himself from a health encyclopedia, and promising the monsters in his bedroom lifelong friendship. Guillermo and Dax talk about writing The Devil’s Backbone while his father was kidnapped, James Cameron nearly fighting Harvey Weinstein on his behalf, and bringing back Pan’s Labyrinth to finally realize it in 3D. Guillermo explains why monsters are more honest than people, how creative shortcuts rob us of the best part, and why being loved matters more than being celebrated. Start your 2 month free trial today: https://youtube.com/premium . Terms Apply. Cancel Anytime. Check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds: https://www.allstate.com/ See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Monica Padman.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 0:06Dax Shepard?

  This is, guys, this is really up there. Monica, she declared favorite of all time.

• 0:10Speaker 01

  I believe it to be favorite episode of all time.

• 0:13Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And, and, and he's in, you know, definitely a three-way tie for me. I mean, he, this is the most incredible human we've got to sit with.

• 0:21Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 0:22Dax Shepard?

  Guillermo del Toro. Guillermo del Toro is an award-winning filmmaker. That's an understatement. He's won a bazillion Academy Awards and every other kind of award. Frankenstein, Movie of the Year last year, Shape of Water, Pan's Labyrinth. We are here to talk about Pan's Labyrinth, and this is so awesome. He has completely redone the whole movie with all these different technologies that now exist. And we will all be able to see it now in 3D among many different formats.

• 0:51Speaker 01

  Incredible.

• 0:52Dax Shepard?

  Cannot wait to see it in 3D. This is among the most special human beings on planet Earth. Please enjoy Guillermo del Toro. We get support from Quince.

• 1:02Speaker 01

  I have to say, I am so ready for fall. I want sweaters. I've been craving a true crisp morning where I actually need a jacket. I can't wait.

• 1:11Dax Shepard?

  I'm fully there. The second it dips below 70, I'm like, this is my season. Give me the layers, give me the boots, give me a reason to wear something other than a t-shirt. And honestly, that's why I love Quince, because fall is when your wardrobe actually has to show up. And everything at Quince is 50 to 80% less than similar brands. We're talking 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters, starting at $60.

• 1:33Speaker 01

  $60. $60 for cashmere that you'd expect from a luxury brand without the luxury price tag. It's amazing. Gets me every time. It really shouldn't be real, but it is because they go straight to the factories, they skip the middlemen, and they just hand you the savings. The stuff isn't trendy. It's the kind of pieces you grab over and over because they work every time.

• 1:51Dax Shepard?

  The 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters for me are it. When I look at Steve McQueen, this man owned a couple of sweaters he wore all the time, and he looks iconic.

• 2:00Speaker 01

  It's a uniform.

• 2:01Dax Shepard?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:02Speaker 01

  And Quince isn't just about the clothes. They have hotel-quality bedding, cookware, bath essentials, thoughtfully-designed furniture. You can really go there and outfit your entire apartment or house. So if you're in need of any kind of fall refresh at home, too, same quality, same attention to detail for every corner of your life.

• 2:19Dax Shepard?

  Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Armchair Expert. It's the best way to support the show. This episode is presented by YouTube Premium. YouTube was already great, but Premium supercharges it. If you like YouTube, you'll love Premium. Try YouTube Premium for two months free at youtube.com/premium. Trial eligibility varies. Terms apply. Cancel anytime. Now let's get into today's episode.

• 3:16Speaker 02

  Hi, Sarah. Yeah, Mary.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  Hi, Rob.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  Jack.

• 3:18Speaker 01

  Nice to meet you. Welcome. That you're right there.

• 3:21Speaker 03

  Thank you, thank you.

• 3:22Speaker 02

  Can I offer you a water?

• 3:23Speaker 03

  Liquid Death.

• 3:25Speaker 02

  I just took the last Topo Chico.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  It is.

• 3:29Speaker 02

  I just took the last Topo Chico, which is, you know, there's a shortage, or maybe you don't.

• 3:33Speaker 03

  I am painfully aware.

• 3:35Speaker 01

  You are? Do you love Toro Chico?

• 3:37Speaker 03

  No, but it's news in the Mexican.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  Oh, right. Yeah, that's true.

• 3:41Speaker 02

  How do they pull it out, right?

• 3:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  Well, it's good. It just increased the value. Now that's worth a lot of money.

• 3:48Speaker 03

  Wasting a lot of money there.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  Could sell it on eBay.

• 3:51Speaker 03

  I'm always curious about what books are those.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  Well, some of them are past guest books, but some of them are just decorative.

• 3:59Speaker 03

  Some of them are, you buy by foot or by color?

• 4:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 4:02Speaker 02

  When you're foot.

• 4:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, like set decoration, right?

• 4:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 4:07Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna start by saying, I've been wanting to meet you for 20 years because I worked with, perhaps one of my favorite people I've ever worked with was Guillermo Navarro.

• 4:17Speaker 03

  Yes, of course.

• 4:18Dax Shepard?

  Are you guys still friendly?

• 4:19Speaker 03

  Of course. What a great guy.

• 4:21Dax Shepard?

  Oh, what a beautiful man.

• 4:22Speaker 03

  Beautiful man, beautiful, everything. I mean, he's so full of talent and fire, and he doesn't put up with anything.

• 4:29Dax Shepard?

  Sure. He's a DP.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  Oh, DP.

• 4:32Dax Shepard?

  Was he the DP on Devil's Backbone?

• 4:34Speaker 03

  On Pan's Labyrinth, he won the Oscar for Pan's. Was the first Mexican cinematographer to win in the history of.

• 4:41Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 4:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, for filmography, yeah.

• 4:43Dax Shepard?

  There has to have been some sense, right?

• 4:45Speaker 03

  Checo was originally a city cam operator, and then he became a DP. But Rodrigo Prieto, Chibo.

• 4:52Dax Shepard?

  Chibo, that's who I'm thinking of.

• 4:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:53Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 4:54Speaker 03

  No, he's a great guy.

• 4:55Dax Shepard?

  What's your theory on this huge explosion of talent that came out of Mexico? I remember when I was working with Guillermo Navarro, he was telling me like, oh, he's from Guadalajara, right?

• 5:05Speaker 03

  No, he's from Mexico. I'm from Guadalajara.

• 5:07Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 5:07Speaker 03

  Now we look alike. The other day I was, I saw a photograph and I said, boy, Navarro looks really haggard. And I realized it was me.

• 5:16Dax Shepard?

  People might accidentally.

• 5:18Speaker 03

  Same, same name, same look.

• 5:20Dax Shepard?

  See, people might accidentally hire him to direct something, thinking they hired you.

• 5:24Speaker 03

  Or me to do the cinematography.

• 5:29Dax Shepard?

  Who do you think would do better at each other's job?

• 5:32Speaker 03

  Two things I forgot. Everything about cinematography, which I used to do on my Super 8s and even on other 16 and all that, and algebra. Algebra, I was a whiz kid for a year.

• 5:42Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 5:43Speaker 03

  And now I don't know even what it means.

• 5:45Dax Shepard?

  You have two daughters?

• 5:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:47Dax Shepard?

  Did you have to help them with math and go, wait, hold on, I'm supposed to be good at this?

• 5:50Speaker 03

  No, because I think each generation does less and less of those operational things.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:56Speaker 03

  You know, like math, when I was a kid, it was a huge breakthrough when they allowed your calculator in the classroom.

• 6:02Dax Shepard?

  Oh, sure. For like trigonometry or something?

• 6:04Speaker 03

  They said, oh, that's cheating. I remember I had a Texas instrument.

• 6:08Dax Shepard?

  Sure. It's big boy, too, right?

• 6:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, the bigger the better. It was a huge debate. There was no internet, or it would have been a huge point.

• 6:17Dax Shepard?

  Well, my kids are in sixth and eighth grade, and so now, of course, the big debate is when and where can they use AI? It'd be kind of insane to think they shouldn't become adept at using it because it'll be a tool they will use, but it's like.

• 6:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 6:31Dax Shepard?

  When and where?

• 6:32Speaker 03

  Well, I think the debate for me is not what happens to the technology, but what happens to the human brain.

• 6:39Dax Shepard?

  While using it, right?

• 6:40Speaker 03

  Well, for example, I'll give you one thing we all live, GPS. You live in LA for 20, 30 years, whatever, and if you start relying on GPS to go home, you should stop.

• 6:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  I can't get anywhere. I can't get to his house, and I live right down there without it. I need it.

• 6:58Speaker 03

  The other day, when, in the opening of the Lucas Museum, George very pointedly said, I want the name of the work, the medium of the work, the author, and the year. That's it. Is because now we walk with context on our pocket. You want to know more? I don't have to tell you if it's a good piece of art or a bad piece of art. You judge it, and you want context, pull out your phone. I mean, that's good for me. Can we foster thought? Not results, thought.

• 7:25Dax Shepard?

  Yes, I think we underestimate the joy there was to be had when you were trying to figure something out.

• 7:30Speaker 03

  Well, you know, like, I brought my notes for Pan's Labyrinth.

• 7:34Dax Shepard?

  You did?

• 7:35Speaker 03

  Because I think the process is what's worth it, not the result. If we understand that, we understand that the shortcut is not giving you something, it's robbing you of something. I'm talking purely as what makes us human. Anytime you skip the process, you are not cheating on someone, you're cheating on yourself. You really are robbing yourself of it.

• 7:59Dax Shepard?

  You know, the difference between winning the lottery and having created a widget.

• 8:02Speaker 03

  My dad won the lottery.

• 8:03Dax Shepard?

  I know. I'm planting that seed.

• 8:06Speaker 03

  Now $6 million. In 1969.

• 8:08Dax Shepard?

  Hold on, we'll earmark that. I do want to tell you, I did reach out to Josh Brolin.

• 8:13Speaker 03

  Uh-huh.

• 8:13Dax Shepard?

  To ask him about you. And do you know what he told me? He said his favorite thing about you is having gotten to look at your journals.

• 8:20Speaker 03

  That was one of those.

• 8:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so I feel very excited because he was just telling me how spectacular they are.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  This is a relic.

• 8:27Speaker 03

  That's a reward page, in case I lose it.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  Oh, my.

• 8:31Dax Shepard?

  God. I have to hold this up.

• 8:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:35Dax Shepard?

  Oh. How much time is in these two pages?

• 8:39Speaker 03

  Well, not, not much, maybe three, four hours, but they can happen three weeks or four months apart.

• 8:45Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 8:46Speaker 03

  I only write when there's something worth to consigning. And after the Hobbit, I stopped carrying them because I couldn't lose notes on the Hobbit.

• 8:54Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my gosh, I'm holding this up. I feel, yeah. This is specta- you know, I'm embarrassed to tell you how much I would pay to own this. I was about to say, I was about to say, I feel like we shouldn't be holding it. Like, we're not worthy of this.

• 9:06Speaker 03

  I thought it would be nice to bring in.

• 9:08Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it's beautiful. Oh, my gosh, Monica, I want you to feel the pages too.

• 9:13Speaker 03

  Oh, my goodness. Did you draw this? Yes, of course. Years before Pirates, I must say.

• 9:18Dax Shepard?

  I cannot believe this. Oh, my lord.

• 9:22Speaker 03

  That was a note for Mountains of Madness.

• 9:24Dax Shepard?

  This was gonna be a question at the very end, but I need to ask it now. Are you friendly at all with Tim Burton?

• 9:30Speaker 03

  No, we never met.

• 9:31Dax Shepard?

  You've never met?

• 9:32Speaker 03

  We've never met. I mean, I know his influences. He comes from Edward Gorey, Charles Adams. I mean, I can trace his roots.

• 9:40Dax Shepard?

  I can't believe you've never met him.

• 9:42Speaker 03

  No, actually, I think that is very risky to meet someone that you have X in common. I've had that, like, people that you have 90% in common and 70% in common, where you disagree, you're gonna hate each other.

• 9:55Dax Shepard?

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 9:55Speaker 03

  When you disagree, you're gonna go, no, there's no conciliation.

• 9:58Dax Shepard?

  We had an expert on the other day. You would know this because you love fantasy, but did you know C.S. Lewis and Tolkien hated each other?

• 10:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, well.

• 10:06Dax Shepard?

  For a period at Cambridge.

• 10:07Speaker 03

  They disliked each other. They were too close.

• 10:09Dax Shepard?

  One was an atheist, one was a Christian.

• 10:12Speaker 03

  And a Christian that took great pains to get there. I may add, I mean.

• 10:16Dax Shepard?

  Bent over backwards to get himself.

• 10:18Speaker 03

  He had to convince himself.

• 10:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, contorted himself.

• 10:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, so, you know, it's like, when you took years to convince yourself of something.

• 10:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 10:27Speaker 03

  You don't give it up that easily.

• 10:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, it's now part of your identity, and it feels threatening to your identity.

• 10:32Speaker 03

  Your world would explode.

• 10:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. But to find out that they also hated and loved opposite poets. And then I think it was C.S. Lewis hosted a Norse mythology reading session.

• 10:44Speaker 03

  Oh, my God, yes.

• 10:45Dax Shepard?

  And then Tolkien attended, and then they fell in love. And they both encouraged each other to pursue fantasy.

• 10:52Speaker 03

  I was gonna say, later they did coalesce into one. And look, the high-bound nature of academia is brutal, is catty.

• 11:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, right.

• 11:01Speaker 03

  Here are actors, comedians, magicians.

• 11:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:06Speaker 03

  And scholars, all very catty. Like, I'm friends with a lot of magicians. There's not a single magician that has ever spoken highly of another magician.

• 11:16Dax Shepard?

  Oh, that's so true.

• 11:17Speaker 03

  Or comedians.

• 11:18Dax Shepard?

  Well, if they die, they can. They can like Houdini.

• 11:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, oh, yeah.

• 11:23Dax Shepard?

  Not a threat.

• 11:24Speaker 03

  They don't have a show opening.

• 11:25Dax Shepard?

  They don't have to share any attention with them.

• 11:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, but academia is very catty.

• 11:29Dax Shepard?

  But you know, I'll say an exception to that, which is stand-ups, you're right. Stand-up comedians are brutal. I did stand-up for a while. But sketch comedians, that's where I'm from.

• 11:37Speaker 03

  That's different.

• 11:38Dax Shepard?

  We do love each other.

• 11:39Speaker 03

  Because a lot of it is writing.

• 11:41Dax Shepard?

  It's writing, it's relying on one another, it's eating shit together, it's succeeding together.

• 11:45Speaker 03

  You can be in a writer's room together.

• 11:46Dax Shepard?

  It starts communal.

• 11:47Speaker 03

  It is. And I think that you find in academia, for example, I love reading Nabokov's writing. I disagree with 90% of his opinions about other writers. You don't have to agree with that because is what you did with what you were given as a legacy. Like Burton, I can see the Gorey, the Edward Gorey in him, or the Charles Adams in him.

• 12:11Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 12:11Speaker 03

  But what he did with that, or the Dr. Seuss, or the way he transmogrifies that.

• 12:15Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes.

• 12:16Speaker 03

  It's interesting, but it would be very different than the way you metabolize, and it becomes part of your being.

• 12:22Dax Shepard?

  I just know this particular part of your workflow is also very similar to his, right? He's just endlessly drawing and writing, even while engaging with people.

• 12:32Speaker 03

  It became less so for me, the most copious notes I took is before I could make movies. The more you have a team, the more you say, well, Guy Davis draws 100 times better than I do, or Francisco Ruiz, or you learn to rely on the people that you work with.

• 12:47Dax Shepard?

  Right. Every movie has a book like this?

• 12:50Speaker 03

  It started with whole books for each movie, and then it went into 50 pages for each movie, and then three pages for each, because the more you have a team.

• 12:58Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 12:58Speaker 03

  I mean, like, I do a thing called the submarine, which is six to nine months before the movie starts. I hired three or four, almost always the same, designers, and we go deep. Before we hire production design, before we hire custom design, we dive deep into the shapes, the colors, the this and that. And then I draw less.

• 13:18Dax Shepard?

  Really quick, what is the, the end product of that session? Is it storyboard?

• 13:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, it's mostly the main concepts, the main tenants of the movie, like shapes, for example.

• 13:28Dax Shepard?

  The rules.

• 13:28Speaker 03

  The rules. And then you hire people, and if they wanna break them, you say, why? Because I thought about it. Not that you don't foster dissent, you do.

• 13:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 13:38Speaker 03

  But you say, you gotta really convince me.

• 13:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, because we thought this through.

• 13:42Speaker 03

  I think that, like, when I go to a set and I see something is not done properly, I say, you thought I wouldn't notice?

• 13:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 13:51Speaker 03

  You know, and like, when I was 30, no, less, when I was 28 or 27, Jim Cameron, we became friends instantly, I don't know why. He said, why don't you come over? We're editing True Lies, and I need to take out 25 minutes.

• 14:05Dax Shepard?

  Was the inroad to this relationship, were you doing the special effects stuff? You had worked in some capacity for him, no?

• 14:11Speaker 03

  No, no, no. Ron Perlman, who was in Chronos, had done a TV series called Beauty and the Beast with Linda Hamilton. So he said, why don't you come to the barbecue on the 4th of July? I went and Jim was there.

• 14:23Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 14:23Speaker 03

  And Jim sat down and he said, so I hear you made a really expensive Mexican movie. I said, well, yeah, I mortared my house. He said, you know, you may lose it. Says, we only hear the stories of the people that donate a kidney and succeed, but there are a lot of people that donate a kidney and the movie doesn't open.

• 14:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 14:41Speaker 03

  I go, that's absolutely true. He says, will you show it to me? I said, sure. And he arrived to the screening at the Chaplin Theater on Raleigh Studios. And he said, if I get a phone call, I may need to leave. I said, sure, I understand. And then he saw the whole movie and he said, the phone call was bullshit.

• 14:59Dax Shepard?

  That was a get out of.

• 15:00Speaker 03

  If the movie was bad, I would send this.

• 15:03Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God, like it's a bad date or something.

• 15:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, he said, I can stay for 20 minutes on the beginning, and then we stayed for four hours. And we liked each other very much. He came from special effects. I could do all special effects. I knew rotoscope tracking, so we started geeking out.

• 15:19Dax Shepard?

  Yes. Okay, I was gonna say, I had the rare experience to go on a motorcycle ride. I didn't know who was gonna be at breakfast, and I get there.

• 15:26Speaker 03

  With Arnold, I mean.

• 15:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, with Arnold. And then he's there.

• 15:30Speaker 03

  What year?

• 15:30Dax Shepard?

  2004.

• 15:32Speaker 03

  Oh, yes.

• 15:33Dax Shepard?

  And who's the great puppeteer, the, um?

• 15:35Speaker 03

  Oh, Stan Winston?

• 15:36Dax Shepard?

  Stan Winston is there.

• 15:37Speaker 03

  He was a writer.

• 15:38Dax Shepard?

  Incredible. And so he naturally has zero interest in the 30-year-old that's there.

• 15:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:44Dax Shepard?

  But he starts talking about the 3D technology he's inventing. And I happen to say, oh, so it's like bilateral stereoscopic vision. And he then goes, he's like, me, me, me, me, right? He hones in on me, goes, why do you know about bilateral stereoscopic vision? And I go, oh, I was an anthropology major. And then I got all of his attention among all these people.

• 16:06Speaker 03

  He's not just pretty.

• 16:09Dax Shepard?

  So I imagine for you, that was the same thing. I think if he figures out somebody knows about his neat kinks, he's just very drawn to you, I'd imagine.

• 16:18Speaker 03

  He said to me one day, there are X number of filmmakers, then there are X number of writer-directors, that's less. There are even less producer-writer-directors. And he said, then there are even less designer-producer-writer-directors, he said, and then world builders. He says, you can count with one hand. And when you encounter somebody, you can talk about the whole thing, how much it's gonna cost, why is it gonna cost? How do we make it better, bigger, and cheaper? And their global view, he said, you immediately are interested because it's a very nurturing and rare, I think, because we had that commonality on effects.

• 16:57Speaker 03

  Because I can sculpt a puppet, I can mechanize a puppet, I can mold a puppet. So I know molding, chemistry, you know, all these things. He liked it.

• 17:06Dax Shepard?

  I know, Mom. I'm like, how do, how do you know all this stuff? So let's go in order a little bit. And you already started it. First of all, you're from Guadalajara?

• 17:14Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 17:15Dax Shepard?

  And Mom and Dad are Spanish, and I'm curious first.

• 17:17Speaker 03

  Mexican, yeah.

• 17:18Dax Shepard?

  When did the family come from Spain? Like, what generation are you?

• 17:21Speaker 03

  I have zero interest in my genealogy. I know my grandfather was half-Irish. It was Guillermo Gomez O'Callaghan.

• 17:31Speaker 03

  It's like, out of Darby O'Gillis.

• 17:33Dax Shepard?

  That'd be a bad restaurant.

• 17:35Speaker 03

  O'Callaghan's, yeah. E. Coli, E. Coli's. I know the kinship with the Irish, because when I went to Ireland, I said, why do I feel straight at home? Immediately. But the side of my father split into Puerto Rico and Mexico, that much I know. Now, my father had a very precarious upbringing. They didn't have money. His father was a gambler, which my dad was a gambler. But he sort of controlled himself, sort of.

• 18:02Dax Shepard?

  So how does he win this lottery?

• 18:04Speaker 03

  He married my mom. We were living in a little, middle-class home. He always bought from the same, he won two times.

• 18:11Dax Shepard?

  No. What?

• 18:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, he won the six million, and then he won a quarter of a million a few years later.

• 18:15Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 18:16Speaker 03

  With the same.

• 18:16Dax Shepard?

  He didn't stop playing.

• 18:17Speaker 03

  The same vendor.

• 18:18Dax Shepard?

  Really?

• 18:19Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 18:19Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 18:20Speaker 03

  So one day, I, we're living there, and one day, we move into a house that was just out of the shining. I would run my bicycle like, daddy, the shining. But he always raised the. I remember the immortal lines he said to my brother, he says, why do I have to do this if we have money? And my dad said, I have money. You don't. And he would say, you want that microphone for your camera, you're gonna go to the dealership and wash all the cars. Then you go to the spare parts warehouse and you have to clean all the boxes. And then I'll buy you your microphone for your super eight camera.

• 18:53Dax Shepard?

  Well, so that was my other curiosity about your father, because I'm from Detroit and my whole family was automotive industry. I too worked for GM for years. It says he was an automotive entrepreneur. What does that mean?

• 19:03Speaker 03

  First he dealt with Packard's, then he dealt with Chrysler and then Nissan and Chrysler.

• 19:08Dax Shepard?

  Did he have a dealership?

• 19:09Speaker 03

  Many dealerships.

• 19:10Dax Shepard?

  Many dealerships.

• 19:10Speaker 03

  Dealerships in the sixties and seventies and all that. He was really the worst boss I've ever had. I worked with him five years and I said, Dad, I'm quitting because I don't want to stop loving you. I never did anything right. I had always had to chase him for every penny.

• 19:25Dax Shepard?

  So it sounds like he took the money he won and he was successful at growing that through his business.

• 19:30Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. No, no, he was very smart. He was very funny. He was very personable. He was a little remote at home.

• 19:36Dax Shepard?

  This is my father too. So I only saw him every other weekend, but he was a car salesman. And when I'd move through the world with him, it's like he knew everyone at the hardware store and then he knew all the waiters and waitresses.

• 19:45Speaker 03

  A hundred percent.

• 19:46Dax Shepard?

  I just wasn't kind of enamored with it.

• 19:48Speaker 03

  Also, my dad was a motorcycle racing champion.

• 19:51Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 19:51Speaker 03

  And he used to ride motorcycles instead of a bicycle. He would buy us a mini bike.

• 19:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 19:56Speaker 03

  So I was on a bike at age six or seven. I was riding my bike on the street.

• 20:00Dax Shepard?

  Childhood I wanted.

• 20:01Speaker 03

  I still.

• 20:02Dax Shepard?

  Of course, you have to break some stuff. Keep it connected.

• 20:08Speaker 03

  I have a bunch of scars from motocross.

• 20:10Dax Shepard?

  Of course.

• 20:11Speaker 03

  Parenting in the sixties would be actionable now.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 20:16Speaker 03

  He would take me on his BMW bike and he would go for ice cream. I was in the back, no helmets, of course.

• 20:22Dax Shepard?

  Of course.

• 20:22Speaker 03

  I said, you want an iron horse? I go, sure. And he would do an iron horse with me on the back. Seven.

• 20:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:30Speaker 01

  Wait, so how old were you when he won the lottery?

• 20:32Speaker 03

  Sixty nine. So I was five.

• 20:34Speaker 01

  And do you remember like the day your dad comes home and it's like, guess what?

• 20:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, the night before we went to the church party, I remember that I won a fire truck, a plastic fire truck.

• 20:46Dax Shepard?

  You're a lucky family.

• 20:49Speaker 03

  Everybody said, congratulations on the raffle. I said, yeah, we got a red truck. I thought that was the.

• 20:55Dax Shepard?

  The town was celebrating you.

• 20:57Speaker 03

  Everybody loves my red truck. Everybody wants my red truck. No, but my dad gave me the discipline. He said, you have to work for everything you need. And he said, it's for your own good. We inherited each other's clothes.

• 21:11Dax Shepard?

  How many siblings?

• 21:12Speaker 03

  One brother older than me who passed away, a younger brother and a younger sister.

• 21:17Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so you're a middle, you're the middle boy.

• 21:19Speaker 03

  I'm the second, which is a hard position.

• 21:21Dax Shepard?

  The stereotype as a middle child?

• 21:23Speaker 03

  Yes, you have to become the negotiator, the peacekeeper, the sane one supposedly.

• 21:29Dax Shepard?

  And then also, would you agree as the middle child, you can really disappear a lot? Cause in my case, there was like a teenager who was crazy and then there was a baby on the scene. So it was like between the energy they took up, I could be in my room for days and no one would have wondered.

• 21:44Speaker 03

  I tell you the parenting thing, I could disappear for a week and they would not ask where I was.

• 21:50Dax Shepard?

  Not even curious.

• 21:51Speaker 03

  If I had enough gas on the tank, I would go to San Antonio, to Texas, to buy super eight equipment. I would come back four days later, no one was there, no one asked anything.

• 22:02Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 22:04Speaker 03

  All I knew there was cold meat and cold beans on the fridge.

• 22:09Speaker 03

  Who made them? I have no idea.

• 22:11Dax Shepard?

  You also described that, you know, when you're like a seven year old boy, most kids are outside playing football and you're like reading voraciously.

• 22:20Speaker 03

  Oh, my God, yes.

• 22:21Dax Shepard?

  And then you're also a hypochondriac.

• 22:22Speaker 03

  A complete hypochondriac.

• 22:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Where do we think that started?

• 22:26Speaker 03

  Started when my dad won the lottery, he bought a library because somebody told him, you have to have a library because you're a gentleman now. So he got a huge desk.

• 22:35Dax Shepard?

  It sounds like they could have told him anything.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  In the house.

• 22:38Speaker 03

  In the house. He bought three encyclopedias. He bought an encyclopedia of art, which I read complete when I was very young. He bought an encyclopedia for youth and one of them was the encyclopedia of health. And I memorized it and I thought, oh, I have tricky nose. I have high blood pressure.

• 22:57Dax Shepard?

  You thought you had pancreatic cancer at one point?

• 23:00Speaker 03

  At one point, I can talk to you. That is in my movies, all the biology, all this and that. That has been with me since I was a kid.

• 23:07Dax Shepard?

  And did you shake it at some point?

• 23:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. My dad was a hypochondriac. His hobby was to be sick. Actually, I became fully fluent. English is my second language, but at age seven or eight, he would make me travel with him to translate to doctors in Houston.

• 23:23Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 23:24Speaker 03

  I have a coma. Tell him that these are my symptoms. And I would speak to the doctor in English and he said, what did he say?

• 23:29Dax Shepard?

  Do you think because of the Catholic guilt, there was some sense that, well, with this great fortune we were given, there must be some price to pay and it'll be my health?

• 23:38Speaker 03

  I don't know how complex my dad was.

• 23:40Dax Shepard?

  But did you have any sense like that? Like something bad will happen to us because this is suspiciously good.

• 23:44Speaker 03

  I have, I have.

• 23:48Speaker 03

  My parents won the money. One of the first things they tried to travel a lot to Europe, to this and that. And we would be left behind and I stayed with who I called my grandmother. She was like Piper, Lori and Gary. She would instilling me the sense of doom. Every day at the end of the day, I would call her and she would say, if I wake up tomorrow, I will see you. And if I die tonight, I want you to know that I love you.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  Oh, my.

• 24:15Speaker 03

  Every day. So I would sleep rigid in the bed feeling, I'm sure she's dead. And when I slept in her house, I would sleep in a little cot at the foot of her bed and I would spend the night hearing.

• 24:30Speaker 03

  And if she stopped, I would go, she's dead.

• 24:34Dax Shepard?

  It happened.

• 24:35Speaker 03

  That for a decade at least. And then I was an altar boy. I was the spokesperson for the Virgin Mary. I was raised very, very Catholic. And this is the time when I was reading multiple books a day. I taught myself to do ultra fast reading and to this day I can read a page about a second, two seconds. I get a page.

• 24:56Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my gosh. Okay. I know this about you. You're going to mass at eight in the morning, but you're coming home and you see Boris Karloff in Frankenstein. And the juxtaposition, yet also the parallel.

• 25:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's the same. To me, this is completely true. My spiritual life is forged by movies, fairy tales and religion. They become the same. Hans Laverne, hands, the shape of water, Frankenstein. To me, they are parables or fairy tales, you know, they became effortlessly one. So my grandmother and I never agreed, but she would buy me the comic books on Tuesdays. On Tuesday, you went to the comic book stand in the corner and I would buy everything, Archie, Little Lulu, House of Secrets, House of Mystery. And some brown and white Mexican horror comics that were the most salacious, grotesque thing ever created. I still have.

• 25:51Dax Shepard?

  Like would make Robert Crumb blush?

• 25:52Speaker 03

  Oh, my God. They started, it was called Traditional Legends of Mexico, right? It was the name of the comic book. And it started very altruistic. Eventually they started doing Edgar Allan Poe, Lovecraft, whatever. And then at the end they were just, let's put a rotten corpse and a scantily clad lady and let's call it a day.

• 26:14Speaker 03

  My mother threw most of my comic books, like everybody, but I kept some.

• 26:19Dax Shepard?

  And your obsession with the monster, of course, makes total sense, which is, I'm not perfect. I'm flawed. I am in some way despicable, right? I have some sense that I am like defective in a way others are not.

• 26:35Speaker 03

  Especially because you're the second child.

• 26:36Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes.

• 26:37Speaker 03

  Like I'm not my brother, who's like a stud in the disco. And I'm not, yeah, you're sort of in the middle. But also you can be pretty brutal with yourself and truth, meaning you don't have to be perfect, but you don't have to stay either. You have to give yourself the license to say, look, this is who I am and this is what I need. And it's truthful, whether we like it or not. And monsters always are truthful. They step into the room, you know what they are.

• 27:04Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 27:04Speaker 03

  And that's one thing I carry to design. When I design, I say, everything designed needs to have a history. And I said, this morning, I was talking about a cistern, a Roman cistern, we're designing for a stop motion movie we're making. And I said, the, the bricks on the floor are too small. And I say, why? I said, because they use larger slabs so the water would slide. This I know. And it's not that you want to make it more pretty or this is truthful.

• 27:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:32Dax Shepard?

  It's the truth.

• 27:32Speaker 03

  You understand the design because it came out of a need. Same with the personality, like we dress, we're expressing something. Wardrobe is personality declaring.

• 27:42Dax Shepard?

  Trying to give you a shortcut.

• 27:43Speaker 03

  Into who you are.

• 27:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 27:45Speaker 03

  And what do you own? What car do you drive? If you are wealthy, but you have a 2010 car, I know who you are.

• 27:53Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 27:54Speaker 03

  A little bit.

• 27:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, Warren Buffett driving the old Cherokee famously for thirty years. Okay, I really get it. It's not about the money.

• 28:02Speaker 03

  Or somebody wearing skechers. A wealthy man and you go, well, he's going for comfort. Like one day I visited a very famous filmmaker, a friend of mine, and he was very excited. What are you driving? And he says, my car is just a sensible ride.

• 28:20Speaker 03

  And that's what it is. It's a sensible ride.

• 28:22Dax Shepard?

  What car do you drive?

• 28:23Speaker 03

  It was a Chrysler 2012.

• 28:25Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 28:26Speaker 03

  I still have it. I love it.

• 28:27Dax Shepard?

  Wonderful.

• 28:28Speaker 03

  Cause in Mexico, you love your car. And once you get it, that's your car.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Loyal.

• 28:32Speaker 03

  You don't have many cars. You're like, that's my car.

• 28:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you go down to Mexico and you see all these incredible eighties full size pickup trucks that are like flawless.

• 28:40Speaker 03

  Well maintained. I call them El Guapo.

• 28:42Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:43Speaker 03

  My car, I say, hey, Guapo, let's go. I talked to the car, like the Japanese, I believe objects have a personality and a soul. I cook. My favorite frying pan is the cheesiest frying pan, but I know exactly how it's gonna heat, how it's gonna cook the rice.

• 28:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  Since you feel a sense that they have some meaning to them, are you a major collector then?

• 29:05Speaker 03

  I was, and I will say was because I'm quite pointedly donating, gifting and auctioning most of what I own. Because I think if you're still accumulating after fifty five, there's something not quite there. Unless you're going to, like what George did, which I adore, open it to the public. If it's for you after fifty five, it's like wearing short pants. I mean, look, everybody has a sense of fashion. I personally wouldn't subject people to me on short pants and a backwards baseball cap.

• 29:37Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I almost wore a backwards baseball cap.

• 29:42Speaker 04

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 29:47Dax Shepard?

  We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking if the movie is sold out before you show up. You drove across town, found parking, got in line, and now the person behind the counter is giving you that look. Sold out. Guess you're watching whatever starts in 10 minutes. Yeah, checking first is an excellent idea. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary, subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. We get support from our presenting sponsor, YouTube Premium. Now, you already know I'm a big YouTube person. It's incredible on its own, but Premium makes the whole experience feel enhanced.

• 30:30Dax Shepard?

  Like you don't realize how much better it can get until you try it. The biggest game changer for me, background play. I love long, two-hour deep dives. You name it, motorcycles, travel, cars.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  Cooking shows for me.

• 30:46Dax Shepard?

  Cooking. Listen, with Premium, you don't have to keep the screen open. So I can lock my phone, slide it into my pocket, and listen to a podcast while I'm folding laundry or working out. It's also completely ad-free, meaning when a narrator is building up to the climax of an insane story, there's zero interruption. And for travel, offline download saves the day. I love this one. Relying on airplane Wi-Fi can be a gamble, so I just download my favorite videos before takeoff. And with smart downloads, Premium will automatically download new videos from channels you actually follow without having to lift a finger. I'm covered if I forget to download a video I want to watch, or even if there's no service. And the home run for me is that YouTube Premium remembers exactly where I left off and lets me continue watching on another device from right where I stopped.

• 31:32Dax Shepard?

  So I can start a video on my TV while brushing my teeth and pick it right back up on my phone on my morning walk. So yeah, YouTube was already great, but Premium supercharges it. If you like YouTube, you'll love Premium. Try YouTube Premium for two months free at youtube.com/premium. Trial eligibility varies. Terms apply. Cancel anytime. We get support from Superhuman. I'm someone who wants to do big, meaningful work, but the small stuff eats up my day before I even get to it. The endless emails, docs, scheduling, follow-ups that pile up. By the time all that's cleared, there's no energy left for the ambitious stuff. Most AI tools promise to fix that, but they require opening a new tab, re-explaining everything from scratch every single time.

• 32:15Dax Shepard?

  A week later, it's just another thing collecting dust in the browser. Superhuman, from the makers of Grammarly, is different. It's already embedded inside the tools people are using, email, docs, browser. It's not waiting to be found. It's already there, working alongside, clearing what's in the way, so the focus stays on what's actually worth doing. A thought partner that's already up to speed, no catching it up. It knows the style, the workflows, and it backs people up without getting in the way. At your service, not after your job. That's the difference. Give it a try for yourself. Start streamlining your workflows with Superhuman. Try today at superhuman.com. We get support from Instagram teen accounts.

• 32:58Dax Shepard?

  So we talk a lot on this show about how the world is different now than when we were growing up. And one of the biggest differences is obviously social media. And I think a lot of people wonder, okay, what's actually being done to make it safer for teenagers?

• 33:10Speaker 01

  Which is a fair question.

• 33:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so Instagram has got something called teen accounts, and they come with automatic protections built in by default. So anyone between 13 and 17 is automatically placed into this experience. They get age-appropriate content settings, contact limits, so that by default, only people they're already connected to can message them. And time management tools, daily time limit reminders, and also sleep mode that mutes notifications from 10:00 PM to 7:00 AM.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  Sleep mode is genius.

• 33:39Dax Shepard?

  Right? And here's the thing, for anyone under 16, a parent has to give permission to change any of those settings to be less strict. The guardrails are on, and Instagram keeps building new safety features to create age-appropriate experiences for teens.

• 33:55Speaker 01

  I am really glad Instagram's helping to give parents peace of mind with teen accounts.

• 33:59Dax Shepard?

  Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens online at instagram.com/teenaccounts.

• 34:13Dax Shepard?

  Well, how do we explain the obsession with the macabre? Like, what makes a little kid?

• 34:17Speaker 03

  Catholic.

• 34:18Dax Shepard?

  It is a death-heavy endeavor.

• 34:20Speaker 03

  The way Philippines and Mexican Catholicism, the inroad into the popularity of the culture, the friars noticed, the gorier, the picture, the more people were like, this is interesting. Yeah. So Mexican Catholicism is really gory.

• 34:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, there's the blood on the crucifixion. You get some blood.

• 34:40Speaker 03

  And you get exposed bones.

• 34:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 34:42Speaker 03

  You get that mortified flesh. Yeah, you go hard. And Filipino Catholicism is just as hard.

• 34:47Dax Shepard?

  Well, and Filipinos, I've got to work with a ton of them in Detroit. They all believe in ghosts, too. Culturally, everyone believes in ghosts. Almost everyone has a ghost story, or multiple.

• 34:58Speaker 03

  Same. In a Mexican dinner, if somebody starts telling a story, a ghost story, you say, yeah, pass the salsa.

• 35:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, you're all ears.

• 35:06Speaker 03

  And everybody has one. Even my grandma, who hated everything supernatural, she had ghost stories. Bedtime, they don't tell you about Snow White. They said, there was this white presence in the house I lived in.

• 35:19Speaker 01

  No wonder you're a hypochondriac. Yeah.

• 35:23Dax Shepard?

  When I'm done telling you this story, I'm likely to pass.

• 35:25Speaker 03

  My analyst says it's what is called a counterphobic reaction. Meaning I was so scared as a kid that I learned to love and get really intimate with what I feared, which is a coping mechanism.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 35:37Dax Shepard?

  Well, that's like the same as when you role-play with your trauma, right? Like, if you've had sexual trauma, but you're into BDSM as a way to interact with it.

• 35:46Speaker 03

  Whatever rein in you have for that, because then if you become the initiator, the controller, then there's some measure of control. I mean, when I was first scared, that I remember as a kid, it was so profound. And my brother then scared me further that night. So, you know, I started seeing things in my bedroom.

• 36:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 36:08Speaker 03

  Presence. I would wake up with lucid dreaming, in which these things were actually in my brain. They were there. But you have to learn. And I tell this story, people think it's a cute story. People think I make it up. It is completely true. I used to pee myself because I didn't want to get out of the crib because I saw a thing in the closet and fingers waving at me in the rug. And I got up and I said, if you let me go to the bathroom, I will be your friend forever. Yeah. I told the monsters, and they withdrew.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh.

• 36:39Speaker 03

  And this is true.

• 36:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 36:40Speaker 03

  And I was able to go to the bathroom. But to this day, in my grandmother's house, there was a corridor, which I thought was incredibly long on the road to the bathroom. And I always thought, what if I see something standing at the end of the corridor, which is in Devil's Bagpipe?

• 36:56Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 36:57Speaker 03

  A few years ago, I went to that house.

• 36:59Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh. Two feet long.

• 37:02Speaker 03

  It's two feet long.

• 37:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 37:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, but in my mind, it was like.

• 37:04Dax Shepard?

  It was a gauntlet of horrors.

• 37:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 37:07Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so to speed through some things, you start messing with Dad's Super 8 camera. When you're about eight years old, this fascination takes you to ultimately the University of Guadalajara. You study cinema.

• 37:17Speaker 03

  We founded the school.

• 37:18Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you did?

• 37:19Speaker 03

  And we were both the founders and the alumni.

• 37:22Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 37:22Speaker 03

  There was no school in Mexico, in Guadalajara, for that, only in Mexico City.

• 37:27Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 37:27Speaker 03

  So we founded two things, a festival, which is still going on, and the school, which is still going on under another name, but the same university.

• 37:35Dax Shepard?

  Was any part of your artistic endeavor like an attempt to have control over this whole thing?

• 37:43Speaker 03

  I guess. I mean, I.

• 37:45Dax Shepard?

  I'm now your analyst.

• 37:46Speaker 03

  No, no, no. When you don't have a social life, when I say other kids were playing football, I could not understand. I felt 70 at age seven.

• 37:55Dax Shepard?

  You were in your study.

• 37:55Speaker 03

  I've been growing younger. Like now, I feel younger.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  You're venting this life.

• 38:04Dax Shepard?

  Benjamin Del Toro.

• 38:05Speaker 03

  If I only I looked like Brad Pitt at any stage.

• 38:08Speaker 01

  If any of us could.

• 38:10Speaker 03

  But I felt old. But I think it's a way to, I mean, we are constantly finding balance. When people say, I had a bad day, well, you're gonna have a good one. I had a good day, well, you're gonna have a bad one.

• 38:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:23Speaker 03

  End of story. Like, the nature of the flow is the yin and the yang. In meditation, you remember nothing's permanent. Everything's gonna peak and it's gonna pass, whether you're the most happy person in the world.

• 38:34Dax Shepard?

  It ebbs and flows.

• 38:35Speaker 03

  And I think writing, creating.

• 38:37Dax Shepard?

  You want it so bad.

• 38:39Speaker 03

  That you create.

• 38:39Dax Shepard?

  That you create it.

• 38:40Speaker 03

  And the world does not cater to that.

• 38:43Dax Shepard?

  To permanence. No.

• 38:44Speaker 03

  To permanence or to what you want.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  But is it cultural? Because I feel like in America, we are obsessed with happiness, with achieving it. And then we assume we just have that for the rest of our lives. But I do know in other cultures, you just know that that's not something you get and you have, that it is temporary.

• 39:01Speaker 03

  My dad has a real estate company, and he said, before you go into this doomed movie career, that you should work for me. So I worked five years for that. And what I remember is payday on Friday, everybody was a prince. And everybody knew that Monday comes, you're gonna have to show up and start working again.

• 39:22Dax Shepard?

  You get two days of.

• 39:23Speaker 03

  You get two days of being.

• 39:25Dax Shepard?

  Being a king.

• 39:25Speaker 03

  A largess.

• 39:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, buying drinks for friends.

• 39:29Speaker 03

  You put a clean shirt.

• 39:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 39:31Speaker 03

  And you went dancing.

• 39:32Dax Shepard?

  By Sunday night, you're like, we're fucked. I gotta go back tomorrow.

• 39:35Speaker 03

  Why did I do that? But the thing that is funny for me is when the culture is all focused on secondary gains.

• 39:45Speaker 03

  And it pays no attention to primary gain.

• 39:48Dax Shepard?

  Please define those two.

• 39:49Speaker 03

  Secondary gains is the things that you have to replenish constantly.

• 39:52Dax Shepard?

  Ah.

• 39:52Speaker 03

  Attention, money.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  Ah, yes.

• 39:54Speaker 03

  Wealth. When you meet somebody that is very rich or very famous and they are worried about how will the movie open? This review was bad. I lost X amount of money. The primary is the person that hugs you and loves you exactly as you are.

• 40:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:12Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 40:12Speaker 03

  That's a primary.

• 40:12Dax Shepard?

  Win or lose.

• 40:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. For me, the most intense primary gain moment is when your kids are four, five, and you open the door and you're Ultraman.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:22Speaker 03

  And, and they run because you're home.

• 40:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 40:24Speaker 03

  That's pure primary gain. And those never go away. They're bedrock and I find it worrisome that more and more we are veering towards secondary, tertiary gain. If you're not careful, you are hollow.

• 40:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I went to a Latino funeral recently in Carson. It was an overwhelming experience. This person who had passed was not famous. They weren't a boss of many people. And the turnout and the experience and the friends and the family, the depth of that.

• 40:56Speaker 03

  That grief.

• 40:57Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and the sharing of it. And I just looked at kind of the white culture I came. If you went to a funeral and there was more than 12 people there, that would be crazy. That other thing was really on display and I was like, oh man, we're really missing the boat in a lot of ways.

• 41:11Speaker 03

  There's not such a thing as a better culture or a worse culture. I think that all of them have incredible positives and incredible negatives. It's just what stays with you. I'll give you a difference. For example, in many cultures, when you're in grief, somebody says, I'm about to phone call away. If you need me, call me. In Latin culture, in Mexican culture, you show up with a bucket of food.

• 41:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 41:33Speaker 03

  And you say, hey, I heard. And you're already there. You don't say, look, all you have to do is call me. No, you just show up.

• 41:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:40Speaker 03

  And you're there and the good and the bad. But there are so many others. I mean, nothing is perfect.

• 41:45Dax Shepard?

  Yes, but there are aspects that are aspirational. And what I observed was this man who I adore, watching him grieve. What I realized is we were all there to help take it on and we all experienced it with him. I was in shambles. Everyone was. And I thought, what a beautiful thing. We're helping him carry this thing.

• 42:08Speaker 03

  You know, a culture, by the way, it deals with, is more vulnerable, the elders and death.

• 42:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:15Speaker 03

  Those three are markers of a culture that are incredibly important.

• 42:19Dax Shepard?

  I'm going to add one more. I was in Miami not long ago and I was out at a very nice restaurant. The traditional white version is you get a babysitter and you go to this really nice restaurant and you have this romantic experience. Well, that was happening at many tables.

• 42:33Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 42:33Dax Shepard?

  The white people were there with the mom and dad. And this is 11 o'clock at night. All of the Latino tables was like, all the kids were there. Brothers and sisters were there.

• 42:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 42:43Dax Shepard?

  And that's just different. And I think it's aspirational.

• 42:46Speaker 03

  The fascination for me is just what stays with you. We all make massive mistakes. I've caused pain and been caused pain and you continue to do it. But the fact is the balance, the ultimate balance, the invoice, comes in the last three minutes of your life. When you have no illusions of being, what do you do for a living? Well, in three minutes, nothing.

• 43:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 43:11Dax Shepard?

  There's no other thing.

• 43:12Speaker 03

  No other thing. Who are you? In three minutes, nothing.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 43:17Speaker 03

  I mean, the moment the system starts to.

• 43:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. The DMT is released.

• 43:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. That's ideally what you should have accumulated.

• 43:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:26Speaker 03

  In life, what you should have accumulated in life is, well, yeah, I fucked up royally over here, but I did this other thing.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:34Speaker 03

  And it all comes incredibly clear. For some reason, it may be biochemical. That's why I say experiential is human. It's not that I'm a ludite. I'm not a guy that says, well, you know, we should not use technology. No, no, no. It's just, look, at the end of the day, the invoice is what did you live?

• 43:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 43:56Speaker 03

  To achieve.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 43:57Speaker 03

  Whatever it is, and it doesn't have to be a big thing. I was a good brother.

• 44:01Dax Shepard?

  What a gift to have at the end.

• 44:03Speaker 03

  What a gift to say that.

• 44:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 44:05Speaker 03

  I was a good father or I was a good son.

• 44:07Dax Shepard?

  Good son, yeah.

• 44:08Speaker 03

  You don't have to be all of that. I was a good friend. That's why I just say, please, just let's be careful for a second about how we launch into the next incarnation of our humanity. I'm not saying don't do this or do that.

• 44:22Dax Shepard?

  Always balance it against this other.

• 44:24Speaker 01

  Just pay attention.

• 44:25Dax Shepard?

  Pursue. So, okay, your first, I think, professional job, right, is you write five episodes and you direct four episodes of this?

• 44:33Speaker 03

  No, before that even. I mean, I was doing my super eights and people started to say, oh, you know how to do makeup effects? Would you do them on my short film or my indie film? And I started to do effects for other people while I wrote and directed my own shorts. And I said, well, when I quit real estate, I said, I'll try to make a living this other way. And I founded my company with my partner and my then wife called Necropia.

• 45:00Dax Shepard?

  Necropia, that's a good name. I assume in Spanish, this is still the base Latin of necro.

• 45:06Speaker 03

  The place where the dead dwell.

• 45:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. But the thing I'm curious about is before you did your first big movie, you had been working for three years building puppets.

• 45:21Speaker 03

  Building the machine, the little Chronos device. What I said is 10 years before. And funny enough, I studied under Dick Smith, who was the Oscar winning makeup effects man that did Amadeus, that did Godfather, The Exorcist.

• 45:36Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 45:37Speaker 03

  Altered States. He accepted me into his makeup effects course and the academy bought part of his estate and they found my first letter.

• 45:46Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 45:47Speaker 03

  To him.

• 45:48Dax Shepard?

  No way.

• 45:48Speaker 03

  And I found it remarkable. I'm still the same guy.

• 45:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 45:52Speaker 03

  What I say, what I say I am, what I think of the genre, what, how I think it can be a parable, that is the same. I said, oh, I like this gift.

• 46:00Speaker 01

  That's a gift.

• 46:01Dax Shepard?

  Well, you had an incredible gift, which is you kind of knew what you were about pretty young.

• 46:05Speaker 03

  When I was very, very, very.

• 46:07Dax Shepard?

  That's, I guess, of all the gifts one can have in life, I think that's the one.

• 46:11Speaker 03

  I'll ask Amy at the academy if she wants to share it with you.

• 46:14Speaker 01

  Oh, yes.

• 46:15Speaker 03

  Is the letterhead from Necropia. And I basically say, in my second or third letter, I say, look, I'm not going to do this for a living. I just want to make my first movie. And there's no one in my country that makes makeup effects. So I had to found a company, work for a few years into having the equipment and then make my first movie.

• 46:38Dax Shepard?

  But I'm referring to, didn't you create for a stop motion film you were intending on making?

• 46:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was going to do that.

• 46:44Dax Shepard?

  A hundred puppets.

• 46:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:46Dax Shepard?

  And the studio was broken into and everything was vandalized and destroyed.

• 46:49Speaker 03

  Destroyed and they smeared poop in the walls.

• 46:52Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 46:52Speaker 01

  No.

• 46:55Speaker 03

  It's called, in Mexico, they call it foxing.

• 46:57Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it's a tradition.

• 46:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, that's.

• 46:59Speaker 01

  It's like toilet paper in here.

• 47:02Speaker 03

  They call it mesorearon.

• 47:03Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 47:04Speaker 03

  Meaning somebody peed and pooed everywhere.

• 47:06Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh.

• 47:07Dax Shepard?

  Sure. They went ape in there.

• 47:09Speaker 03

  No, what it means is they didn't find anything worth stealing.

• 47:12Dax Shepard?

  So they got pissed.

• 47:13Speaker 03

  They got revenge.

• 47:15Dax Shepard?

  But how did you recoup from having spent that much time working and focusing on something and having to say goodbye to that?

• 47:24Speaker 03

  A friend of mine said to me, the key to life is huge windshield, small rear view mirror.

• 47:30Dax Shepard?

  Hmm, that's nice.

• 47:32Speaker 03

  I think that's a very succinct. Like I remember, and you may remember, when computers started, I started writing on a word processor and you could save three pages at once. And I was like, this is, who can do anything better?

• 47:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:48Speaker 03

  Then computers came and I was 20 something, writing a book on Alfred Hitchcock, which got published by the university. But I had done 130 pages or something like that and I erased the disc. And I immediately, immediately went, okay, page one.

• 48:05Dax Shepard?

  But, okay, page one, new project or page one, the same one?

• 48:09Speaker 03

  Same one.

• 48:09Dax Shepard?

  That's a constitution. That's hard.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  That's a personality trait. I don't know that you can teach that.

• 48:14Speaker 03

  No, no, you have to sort of have it. You know, it came from crashing motorcycles. I remember this, when I was in motocross, I would take a dune the wrong way and I was on a 300 Enduro motorcycle, which is too heavy for motocross. And in the air, I was thinking, okay, I'm going to die or break my bones. And then something went wrong and I said, okay, I didn't die. I broke my bones. How do I get up? How do I push the bike off of me? Like immediately it was like, okay, next step.

• 48:43Dax Shepard?

  Solution, solution, solution.

• 48:45Speaker 03

  Which, by the way, eventually, as a person, there's a lot of you that you don't process. And one day you're crossing the street and you have a panic attack or something.

• 48:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's that thing from twenty years ago.

• 48:58Speaker 03

  That I didn't process fifteen years ago.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:01Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so you do Kronos.

• 49:02Speaker 03

  So I found the company. I do all the special effects.

• 49:04Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 49:05Speaker 03

  I do commercials, fifteen movies, blah, blah, blah. And then I have the tools, then I make Kronos, which is incredibly hard to do, incredibly against the grain, incredibly unpopular with the financiers and the government and all that.

• 49:17Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 49:17Speaker 03

  And then it wins at Cannes. That's in two seconds, an eight-year journey.

• 49:23Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 49:23Dax Shepard?

  Wow, wow, wow. What film opens up the door to Mimic?

• 49:29Speaker 03

  Well, Mimic, which it was a trap door.

• 49:32Dax Shepard?

  As we're about to learn.

• 49:33Speaker 03

  And Miramax, they loved Kronos supposedly. Turns out they didn't.

• 49:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, they probably didn't even see it.

• 49:39Speaker 03

  They probably didn't even see it. But at any rate, we developed, they wanted to do a three or four anthology movie with Brian Singer, myself, I think, four directors. And they said, develop a short story. And I had read Mimic. And I said, well, we can do this one as a short, thirty minutes. I showed them the tests and they said, we gotta do it as a feature. And I go, I don't think there's a feature in there.

• 50:03Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 50:03Speaker 03

  I've been unemployed. Kronos is ninety-one, ninety-two, we finish shooting, it comes out in ninety-three. I owe a lot of money. I owe a quarter of a million dollars at twenty-eight.

• 50:14Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah. It's not great for creativity.

• 50:16Speaker 03

  No, it's great for creativity. And I said, well, I gotta pay that. By the way, that money, whatever I make on Mimic, I put into paying the ransom for my father.

• 50:24Dax Shepard?

  This is all, I'm presuming ninety-seven.

• 50:27Speaker 03

  My dad is kidnapped ninety-eight.

• 50:29Dax Shepard?

  But this period, I'm presuming, is one of the hardest chapters of your life? Between directing this movie, we just, we must say that this movie is a miserable experience for you.

• 50:38Speaker 03

  Oh, my God, not more than that. Let me put it this way. That movie is the worst experience I've ever had.

• 50:45Speaker 01

  Really?

• 50:45Speaker 03

  Including everything. Yeah, because nothing made sense. You are giving someone, what time will prove, that it doesn't matter if it's good or not. You're giving them your hundred percent.

• 50:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 50:55Speaker 03

  You're giving them images and moments and episodes in a film that are great, and they hate them.

• 51:01Dax Shepard?

  They fucked with you on casting, ultimately editing. They fired you at one point or tried to?

• 51:07Speaker 03

  They actually fired me on a Friday, and I was rehired on a Monday.

• 51:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 51:11Speaker 03

  That same Monday.

• 51:12Dax Shepard?

  And Brolin was in this movie. That's why I called him.

• 51:15Speaker 03

  I loved Brolin.

• 51:16Dax Shepard?

  He was in a rough period for himself, as he told me. He's like, I was drinking a lot on that.

• 51:20Speaker 03

  He was drinking and he was reading a lot. And we would have this deep, deep, super deep discussions.

• 51:26Dax Shepard?

  Too deep and unproductive.

• 51:28Speaker 03

  What I love about Brolin, there's certain people that have the soul of a poet and the pain of a soul of a poet.

• 51:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:35Speaker 03

  He had that.

• 51:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:36Speaker 03

  And whether they're actor, directors, writers, you love them for the purity of their pain.

• 51:41Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 51:42Speaker 03

  Which I think is a huge gift.

• 51:45Dax Shepard?

  It's an asset.

• 51:45Speaker 03

  If your pain is pure, your song is clearer. You sing in a louder, clearer voice in this world.

• 51:52Dax Shepard?

  This is so out of school, but I have said it when I interviewed his ex, but I was around Heath Ledger several times in important ways, and I could feel the weight on him. That was much more severe than the weight I've experienced. It was palpable.

• 52:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:08Dax Shepard?

  And heartbreaking. And also why he was just so brilliant and riveting.

• 52:12Speaker 03

  What he does with that.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 52:14Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 52:14Speaker 03

  But you can philosophize all you want. The experiencing of it is never altruistic, but I happen to think that with age, you learn mechanisms that are more truthful to the way the world works. And you learn to declare your worst self without fear. The moment of freedom is not when you are at your best. It's when you are at your worst and you say, and that's me. It's the only clarity you can aspire to.

• 52:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I just had this the other day where I had to present an award. This bit went wrong. It was ill-conceived.

• 52:49Speaker 03

  Terrible task.

• 52:49Dax Shepard?

  The whole thing was terrible. And when I was driving home, I was like, oh, yeah, I like myself just as much. And it was a moment for me. I was like, oh, we've arrived somewhere that that doesn't matter what just happened.

• 52:59Speaker 03

  There's a great mechanism, it's very simple, very simple in therapy. When the question you have to ask of anything is, and? I crash my car. And? Well, I'm gonna take it to repair. And? It's gonna come back. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And? I lost a million dollars. And?

• 53:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 53:18Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we stop. We don't model out the whole thing. We stop at the part we hated.

• 53:22Speaker 03

  Or the part we love.

• 53:23Speaker 01

  Shame. Oh, yeah.

• 53:24Speaker 03

  I met someone great. And? I just met them. Oh, okay.

• 53:31Speaker 03

  You know, everybody takes a trash on Tuesdays.

• 53:33Dax Shepard?

  They have two kids they haven't seen in three years. Oh, okay.

• 53:35Speaker 03

  That is also cultural. The tragedy of certain cultures is to tell you that one day you'll get there.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 53:43Speaker 03

  What is there? I just wrote a scene in a movie that we're gonna shoot in stop motion and all that, where they have to face death, which is apparently my favorite theme.

• 53:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 53:53Speaker 03

  And the guy says, is this it? And death says, what else were you expecting?

• 53:57Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so there's two things that are happening all in the same zone. Your father gets kidnapped, and you've had this insanely terrible experience on Mimic. And both of these things end up involving James Cameron in this very sweet way that I wanna shine a light on.

• 54:13Speaker 03

  Very sweet. First of all, he said, don't do it.

• 54:15Dax Shepard?

  Don't do the movie.

• 54:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. We were sitting in his garden. I mean, by this time, we're brothers. And Jim is my brother. Any trouble, I'll call Jim. We've gone through everything together.

• 54:25Dax Shepard?

  He's a good big brother, too.

• 54:26Speaker 03

  He's a great big brother.

• 54:32Speaker 03

  But he's one of the guys that shows up.

• 54:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:35Speaker 03

  Shows up with lasagna.

• 54:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:37Speaker 03

  Says, I'm here. I think he's Mexican. But he says, don't make the movie. You're gonna get none of the budget and all of the pain. He has warned me two times.

• 54:46Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 54:46Speaker 03

  I'll keep the other one secret.

• 54:48Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great, great.

• 54:48Speaker 03

  But both times, both times, he was right.

• 54:50Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 54:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I made the movie. I go through it. He almost gets into a fistfight with Harvey Weinstein.

• 54:56Dax Shepard?

  Monica, you must know this story.

• 54:57Speaker 01

  What?

• 54:58Dax Shepard?

  He has won his twenty-fifth Oscar of the night for Titanic. He's holding the editing, I believe, Oscar.

• 55:05Speaker 03

  I think it's the editing.

• 55:06Dax Shepard?

  He's coming back to his seat. It's in commercial, and Harvey Weinstein decides this is a great opportunity to come up to him. And he said, you know, why don't you work at Miramax? We're a filmmaker-friendly studio. And Jim fucking goes off.

• 55:20Speaker 03

  No, you mean like the way you treated Guillermo?

• 55:22Dax Shepard?

  He treated my friend Guillermo, and he lets it rip on the floor of the Academy Awards. People have to intervene. James is like, he almost got belted in the head with this Oscar.

• 55:32Speaker 03

  Jim said, I was almost gonna belter with the Oscar. And the thing is, what people don't understand, back then, the public image of these guys was that they were patrons of the arts.

• 55:40Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly. Yeah, Miramax was independent and arty. Yes.

• 55:45Speaker 03

  And they bad-mouthed me everywhere. So for five years, I couldn't work. For five years, they do Mimic and Devil's Backbone, I was un-hireable, basically.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  Oh, my.

• 55:56Speaker 03

  You know, so everybody has heard, I couldn't create images. They had to come in. And what I did, and this is again, the same mechanism. I said, I don't need to make movies there.

• 56:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:05Speaker 03

  I'll make a movie in Spain.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly.

• 56:07Speaker 03

  I mean, I don't need them. When you mourn something you have, celebrate everything else that you could have.

• 56:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 56:16Speaker 03

  You know what I'm saying?

• 56:16Dax Shepard?

  Well, you cannot be focused on this thing that you won and you lost, because you can no longer focus on what's.

• 56:21Speaker 03

  Well, it's like mourning, the risk of mourning, if you lose somebody close to you. There's a syndrome where you stop paying attentions to everybody else that was left.

• 56:30Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 56:31Speaker 03

  Like you lose a son or you lose a brother. Well, you have other siblings. I'm not being glib.

• 56:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:37Speaker 03

  You stop paying attention.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:39Speaker 03

  It's the same in life.

• 56:40Dax Shepard?

  The reaction to losing a loved one should be, fuck, I gotta double cherish the ones in front of me, but the reverse happens sometimes.

• 56:47Speaker 03

  Pedro Almodóvar had said to me, if we can produce a movie for you, let us know. And during the kidnapping of my dad, three things happened. One is the negotiator, which Jim Cameron hired.

• 57:00Dax Shepard?

  So Jim said, let me, his father was kidnapped for seventy-two days.

• 57:05Speaker 03

  First phone call is, we won three million in three days, five million in five days, or we chop his head off. That was the first phone call. And first third of the kidnapping, I go and hide in a closet, cover my ears, cannot talk while they're talking. Last third of the kidnapping, I negotiate. So somewhere in the middle, you change. My beard comes up. I have no hair in my face.

• 57:27Dax Shepard?

  And it arrives.

• 57:28Speaker 03

  It arrives.

• 57:29Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 57:29Speaker 03

  My mother loses all her hair during the seventy-two days, all the hair, eyebrows, hair, everything. But this guy comes in, Jim hires him. People say, oh, he paid the ransom. No, we paid the ransom, but he paid for the negotiator.

• 57:41Dax Shepard?

  And he offered to pay the ransom, right?

• 57:43Speaker 03

  He did. He said, I'll get it in cash in a helicopter. I said, Jim.

• 57:47Dax Shepard?

  And I'll be flying the helicopter.

• 57:48Speaker 03

  I'll go in with Navy SEALs. I said, Jim.

• 57:50Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. He is such a good big brother. That makes me, I mean, I obviously like, respect him so much, but that really makes me respect him as a person.

• 58:01Speaker 03

  Although we were in tragedy, I said, look, I don't want you to solve it. We have to solve it.

• 58:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:07Speaker 03

  But what happens is, in the first seventy-two hours, they call back and we say, I think we were able to gather, because my father never gave any of us access to the money.

• 58:17Dax Shepard?

  Nor, I'm sure, told anyone where it's all at.

• 58:19Speaker 03

  It was his money, but we couldn't access it at all, not even. And so I put whatever I had left of Mimic, which was very little, because I had paid the debt from Kronos.

• 58:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 58:29Speaker 03

  That's what we had. So three days later, before the negotiator arrives, we say, I think we can gather about a hundred thousand dollars. And they hung up. And we say, oh, and the negotiator arrives and says, what did you say? Hundred thousand bucks. The negotiator says, that same day, he's gonna stay between seventy and seventy-five days. And you screwed up.

• 58:47Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 58:47Speaker 03

  Because if you can get a hundred thousand in three days,

• 58:51Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 58:51Speaker 03

  You can get a million in excellent. And so they're gonna squeeze you. Brutal to know that, but that's the way the experience was.

• 58:59Dax Shepard?

  Can I ask, and maybe this is too personal. Is there the moment at the end from a movie where he walks out of somewhere and the money has been placed somewhere?

• 59:08Speaker 03

  Well, that's a whole hour and it's incredibly harrowing. But when people say, oh, you know, you had a great career, I said, no, I've survived a career. It's a brutal biography. But people always think where you are is where you've always been.

• 59:23Dax Shepard?

  Sure, sure.

• 59:24Speaker 03

  But of course it isn't. And the kidnapping was the same. Many days you would wake up and said, what if he doesn't return?

• 59:30Dax Shepard?

  Well, the protective part of your brain has to be actively also preparing you for that to save you.

• 59:38Speaker 03

  When we talk about people that are similar as directors, some visuals, some this one. The difference is in your experience, I am acutely aware of the spiritual and I'm acutely aware of pain. That makes a difference. Your images are charged in a different way. And they help you through this. The negotiator says that. He says, what do you do, each of us? And I say, I'm a writer, director. He says, write. Every day, write for three to four hours. Every day I want you, he's kidnapped, not you. You're gonna discipline yourself into sitting down.

• 1:00:11Dax Shepard?

  This person's a special person.

• 1:00:13Speaker 03

  He was an English agent. He had worked for the Secret Service in England. Fascinating guy.

• 1:00:18Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:18Speaker 03

  But he says, you're not kidnapped. He is. You're a writer, write. And what you will be assigned in this first part is you will transfer all the phone calls into dialogue and in English and in Spanish.

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:00:31Dax Shepard?

  Okay. He kept you busy.

• 1:00:33Speaker 03

  Well, he makes you do what you do and that helps you find a center. But the other thing that happens, then I start writing two things. Monte Cristo, which is about revenge and the devil's backbone.

• 1:00:43Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:00:44Speaker 03

  For Pedro.

• 1:00:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:45Speaker 03

  Pedro during the kidnapping comes and visits me and I said, here's what I'm writing. And he says, these are like three movies in one. I said, no, no, no. But I developed the devil's backbone and Monte Cristo while my dad is kidnapped.

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  Were you talking to your dad? Like, how did you know?

• 1:00:59Speaker 03

  Few times. We, we talked to him only one time as proof of life. His first line is, why are you taking so long?

• 1:01:06Dax Shepard?

  Cause you know, tells where the money is, motherfucker.

• 1:01:08Speaker 03

  And by the way, we already paid once and now we have to pay again. They said, now we have enough money, we can wait.

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:01:16Speaker 03

  So they keep him another thirty something days. I'm sixty two and now I'm the only one that remembers that my mother is gone, my dad is gone, my brother is gone.

• 1:01:27Dax Shepard?

  Do you draw on that often?

• 1:01:29Speaker 03

  Only in whatever little tools you get philosophically to come with that. But you know, that's when somebody talks about, oh, you know, you're an artist and you're privileged. And you say, I'm more than that. Well, you're the sum of everything. Don't judge anyone by where they are. Judge, how did they get there? What did they learn in the process? What did you go through?

• 1:01:49Speaker 04

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 1:01:56Dax Shepard?

  We get support from our sponsor, Lilly. For adults with obesity or with excess weight and weight related medical problems, it's time to find out about Foundo or for Glee Ron. Foundo is a once daily prescription GLP one medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off.

• 1:02:21Speaker 05

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• 1:03:05Speaker 05

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• 1:03:19Dax Shepard?

  This episode is supported by Helix.

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  Dax, is there anything better than crawling into a perfect bed on a cold fall night? Candlelit hoodie on, maybe even some rain outside. The dream.

• 1:03:33Dax Shepard?

  That's the dream. You just described one of my ideal fall nights.

• 1:03:37Speaker 01

  I know. And thanks to Helix, my bed actually lives up to the vibe. All I had to do was take the Helix sleep quiz and within two minutes they matched me to a mattress built for exactly how I sleep. I have a midnight mattress. It also has cooling technology.

• 1:03:51Dax Shepard?

  Ooh.

• 1:03:52Speaker 01

  Which I really.

• 1:03:53Dax Shepard?

  Increasingly so.

• 1:03:54Speaker 01

  I need it. I have to have it. And I heard that you're supposed to sleep at a cold temp.

• 1:04:01Dax Shepard?

  Hmm.

• 1:04:01Speaker 01

  Optimal sleep. It's very, very helpful.

• 1:04:04Dax Shepard?

  She is not wrong. I have one too, and it's been such a game changer for sleep. And I love that they make it so easy, free shipping right to your door. And what they're happy with Helix guarantee, you'll get a full three hundred and sixty five nights to try it. A whole year to live in that cozy. They've got over twenty mattress models. So no matter how you sleep, they've got one for you.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  And it's not just us saying it. Helix has been named the most awarded mattress brand by Forbes, Wired and more. You gotta try it for yourself.

• 1:04:31Dax Shepard?

  Go to helixsleep.com slash armchair for twenty percent off site wide. That's helixsleep.com slash armchair for twenty percent off site wide. Helixsleep.com slash armchair. This episode is brought to you by Service Now. Look, I have my dream job. I get to talk to folks I admire like crazy and ask them virtually any question that I want to. I can't imagine a better way to spend my time. But even dream jobs have some not so dreamy parts. The stuff that gets in the way of the actual work. Now that's where Service Now's AI specialists come in. They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work.

• 1:05:13Dax Shepard?

  They actually do it, start to finish, cases closed, requests handled, no extra work for you. So you and your team can focus on what matters most, which for me is, are they obsessed with male bodies on the same level as I am?

• 1:05:27Speaker 01

  They never are.

• 1:05:28Dax Shepard?

  To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com. We get support by Peloton. You know that feeling when you're spiraling over a problem and you just can't figure it out? When that happens to me, I need a change of pace and I've found that running is the best way. It takes my brain out of the driver's seat and I come back with a fresh perspective. Running can be freeing and cathartic and Peloton helps you feel all of that. And now that feeling fits wherever you need it with the new Peloton Tread Flex. It's movable and foldable, designed to fit your life. So next time you feel stuck, you can go for a run literally anywhere, whether that's in your office, living room, or even the attic.

• 1:06:10Dax Shepard?

  Plus they have classes with expert instructors and programs to meet you at any level and keep you moving. Let yourself run. Explore the new Peloton Tread Flex at onepeloton.com.

• 1:06:28Dax Shepard?

  So now you go on a run. The devil's backbone is incredible.

• 1:06:32Speaker 03

  But even that, for example, comes out nine, ten. The next day, nine, eleven.

• 1:06:36Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:06:37Speaker 03

  And you learn, okay, whatever joy you achieved in Toronto Film Festival that day and you feel like a winner, then life tells you.

• 1:06:46Dax Shepard?

  Oh, talk about impermanence.

• 1:06:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:06:47Speaker 03

  There's all this cosmic stuff. You learn at a visceral level how connected all our fates are. I mean, that's the impossible thing for me is how we have been individualized by machines that have basically worked as narcissistic mirrors. And we are now incapable of understanding that we are all a single cell unit. Whether we like it or not, when you only think of yourself, it's cancer. We have cancer. Those key to happiness. Sartre said, hell is the others. Heaven is also the others. If you have kids and you say, I just want they're good, you are immediately happy. You know, yes, I'm going through this, but my kids are good.

• 1:07:30Speaker 03

  You can always say that. It's like Marty Feldman in Young Frank is like, it could be worse. It could be raining.

• 1:07:37Speaker 03

  There's always that mutation.

• 1:07:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Okay. I just want to get to pans now because we do Blade two. And then Hellboy.

• 1:07:45Speaker 03

  Blade two is a blast.

• 1:07:46Dax Shepard?

  I would imagine Wesley, and he's an enigma to me.

• 1:07:50Speaker 03

  He's an enigma to me. Well, at one point he said to me, I am unknowable.

• 1:07:55Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 1:07:57Speaker 03

  Absolutely agree. I wanted to prove how I could handle big action. Cause part of the myth on mimic, the Weinstein's were saying, well, he cannot do big movies. And I go, oh, I can't. I'll show you.

• 1:08:10Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:08:11Speaker 03

  And Blade was done for about thirty four, thirty five, forty million plus Wesley's salary. But it was a relatively small movie.

• 1:08:19Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:08:20Speaker 03

  And I wanted to look big and the action to be very innovative and all that. And he said to me, I have a few rules. He said, I don't do over shoulders.

• 1:08:28Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 1:08:28Speaker 03

  I'll give you three setups a day, four setups a day. And the rest you do with my body double. I don't care.

• 1:08:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, okay.

• 1:08:35Speaker 03

  And he said, and blah, blah, blah. And I said, I can do all that. Why? Because I know how to shoot makeup effects. So I can shoot a full shot. Like there's a close up in the movie that is not Wesley.

• 1:08:46Dax Shepard?

  You're kidding me?

• 1:08:47Speaker 03

  This is body double.

• 1:08:49Dax Shepard?

  I need to rewatch.

• 1:08:51Speaker 03

  A whole scene is not Wesley. And I remember in the ADR.

• 1:08:56Dax Shepard?

  I'm shocked he came to ADR.

• 1:08:58Speaker 03

  He came to ADR.

• 1:08:59Dax Shepard?

  Doovers.

• 1:09:00Speaker 03

  We actually enjoyed each other at the end. We have a couple of.

• 1:09:03Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 1:09:04Speaker 03

  Big moments.

• 1:09:06Dax Shepard?

  How do you do with confrontation in general?

• 1:09:09Speaker 03

  If it's private, I negotiate. If it's public, I go the whole way very fast.

• 1:09:15Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay. If it's in front of everybody.

• 1:09:16Speaker 03

  My God, it's like, okay, now you're not giving me that space. I'm gonna go all the way with you.

• 1:09:21Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:09:22Speaker 03

  I am actually good with confrontation. It comes from Big Mexican.

• 1:09:25Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:26Speaker 03

  Privately and with friends, it's really hard. If you love somebody, then I'm paralyzed. But if you're a star or you're head of a studio, I go all the way. I don't mind. But privately, I really like to find a point of comfort for both of us.

• 1:09:41Speaker 06

  Yeah, compromise.

• 1:09:43Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so two thousand and six, Pan's Labyrinth. And that's what we're here to talk about because it is A, the twenty year anniversary.

• 1:09:50Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:09:51Dax Shepard?

  And it's coming out again.

• 1:09:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:53Dax Shepard?

  And it's coming out in a bunch of different new formats.

• 1:09:56Speaker 03

  I have color timed it twenty times in the last few months.

• 1:10:00Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 1:10:01Speaker 03

  I have color timed it for a three D, color timed it for Barco, color timed it for Dolby Digital, color timed it for four K.

• 1:10:08Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 1:10:10Dax Shepard?

  What's your stamina through that?

• 1:10:11Speaker 03

  In the last five, you have about six neural points in color where you go, are the highlights clean? Are the blacks saturated and clean? Black or white in an image, the highest point of contrast and the lowest are easily contaminated. It's very hard to achieve pure whites or pure blacks.

• 1:10:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:30Speaker 03

  So you have, this is a magenta black, this is a cyan white.

• 1:10:34Dax Shepard?

  I went to a really cool test when I was coloring for a movie I directed and they were showing us, people are enamored with four K, six K, eight K. Then they show you what's the difference when you control the blacks.

• 1:10:48Speaker 03

  That's it.

• 1:10:48Dax Shepard?

  Right? Like you could be in two K with really controlled blacks versus eight K. It's like, oh, well, this looks so much more beautiful.

• 1:10:55Speaker 03

  I mean, look, I tell you, Dolby Digital laser projection is just so incredibly beautiful.

• 1:11:00Dax Shepard?

  Mind blowing because you can control those so well.

• 1:11:03Speaker 03

  The whites are pure, the blacks are pure. For example, saturation in color. The more you saturate, the richer the black, right? So if you have good blacks, you have perfect color. Saturation, ideal. And then you have to be careful. And I worked with two colors in the spectrum that are very hard, gold and cyan, incredibly hard. Why? Both gold and cyan become green really easy.

• 1:11:26Dax Shepard?

  As you start manipulating them.

• 1:11:28Speaker 03

  Cyan, but you sneeze and it's blue. And cyan, you sneeze and it's green. And gold, you sneeze and it's red. And you sneeze and it's yellow.

• 1:11:37Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:11:37Speaker 03

  So you have to constantly be footing that.

• 1:11:39Dax Shepard?

  So when you're coloring, you're prioritizing your two colors the most?

• 1:11:44Speaker 03

  You say, these are the six points in the movie that I need to make sure are good. And then you do a full timing one or two times.

• 1:11:52Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:11:52Speaker 03

  Normally I have to do it because I'm available and I'm, I'm right there. And then you have to make sure the audience is experiencing that. This is the most perfect the movie's ever been.

• 1:12:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So what is it like for you twenty years later to see now visually a version?

• 1:12:05Speaker 03

  I finally like it.

• 1:12:06Speaker 06

  Oh, wow.

• 1:12:07Dax Shepard?

  You were unsatisfied?

• 1:12:09Speaker 03

  I was always, and there's still one image.

• 1:12:12Dax Shepard?

  That drives me nuts.

• 1:12:12Speaker 03

  Horrible. I call it a Seinfeld. I don't do establishing shots. This is establishing shock. So every time it pops up, I go bum, bum.

• 1:12:24Speaker 03

  I hate it. I hate.

• 1:12:26Dax Shepard?

  You can hear Kramer walking in the door.

• 1:12:27Speaker 03

  What happens is it's strong lit. It was the only time, we always like when Navarro, you map out the location and you say, we can shoot here because the sun is behind us, right? Or lateral. You never want to shoot with the sun in front.

• 1:12:39Dax Shepard?

  Cause everything's flat, right?

• 1:12:41Speaker 03

  It's flat horrible.

• 1:12:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:42Speaker 03

  So the sun is frontal on this establishing and is establishing.

• 1:12:46Dax Shepard?

  Which you don't like. I'd want to add this. This is interesting. A lot of times also your failures, your inconveniences can give birth to something very special. So this is true, right? That in mimic, they fucked with you in the edit so much that you being clever were like, from now on, my shots are gonna be very long and constructed, so it's impossible to get into them.

• 1:13:09Speaker 03

  Yeah. And that, or it would never back when my editor called me and said, could you please shut up? Count to three before saying cut. Cause I used to say cut right to the frame.

• 1:13:19Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:13:20Speaker 03

  Cut. Cause I didn't want anyone else coming and editing it.

• 1:13:25Dax Shepard?

  But this is a weirdly a gift for you, right?

• 1:13:27Speaker 03

  I have now relaxed. Bradley Cooper helped me relax.

• 1:13:31Speaker 06

  In what way?

• 1:13:32Dax Shepard?

  Like no one's gonna fuck with you.

• 1:13:33Speaker 03

  Every day, heresy. I'm gonna say heresy. What if we, I would jive. I said, I can jive. The more you can surf and not just play chess, the more both of those disciplines feed on each other. I think that is really good to be rigorous in order to be flexible.

• 1:13:53Dax Shepard?

  You're like, know it perfectly so you can throw it away.

• 1:13:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Is there something better in today? If there is, don't be so uptight that you don't see it, but don't be unprepared because you will lose it. A conversation is working if both sides are listening.

• 1:14:07Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:14:07Speaker 03

  Right? And sometimes people show up with a preconceived notion, whether it's an actor or a director. And I've talked to people that have worked or were friends with Cooper. And yes, he knew most of what he wanted, but then the accident and the lack of importance in delivering a line, he courted and he had to extract through process. You know, I think it's the same with every perfectionist. There's a point where you have to have the accident.

• 1:14:33Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes, yes. Well, it'll start feeling like AI made it.

• 1:14:36Speaker 03

  That's the point. It's not chemistry, it's alchemy. The key to alchemy, both philosophically and chemically, is you take what is called vile matter and you transform it into sublime matter. If you only juxtapose and permeate, which is what a search engine does, things that already happened.

• 1:14:56Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:14:57Speaker 03

  You're crisscrossing information, you achieve straight up to the middle.

• 1:15:01Dax Shepard?

  You bullseye the average.

• 1:15:02Speaker 03

  You never achieve the one percent over there.

• 1:15:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's actually incapable. It's not built to do that.

• 1:15:08Speaker 03

  You're reacting with everything you are. You were beaten as a child. You lost your mother when you were twelve. You suffered tragedy. You suffered joy. You got drunk at fifteen. You crashed the car. All this is inside of you taking that decision that day.

• 1:15:26Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:15:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:27Speaker 03

  All of that is in there.

• 1:15:29Speaker 06

  It's magic.

• 1:15:29Speaker 03

  It's magic. Let's call it what it is. It's art.

• 1:15:32Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:15:32Speaker 03

  The other thing produces something that didn't vibrate with any experience, no matter how many, because it's not a model. We are part of a living, breathing cosmic experience. And I'm not going woo woo. This is true of every one of us. And then you vibrate with others and you know, the way you achieve one solution, the way you stutter in one take and you go, that's the good one.

• 1:15:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:57Speaker 03

  Oh, sorry, I stuttered. That's what made it work. We all live that excitement.

• 1:16:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:01Speaker 03

  It's, it's a sport. It's a contact sport.

• 1:16:04Dax Shepard?

  Scorsese is a lovely example of this for us, right? He will often use flawed shots.

• 1:16:10Speaker 03

  And his own flaws.

• 1:16:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So prioritize what he saw in that performance at that moment, right?

• 1:16:15Speaker 03

  And that's why many people, people I respect are one take, two takes. I visited Steven into shooting a bridge of spies. And it informed everything I felt about shape of water, everything. And a couple of days I visited.

• 1:16:28Dax Shepard?

  Really?

• 1:16:29Speaker 03

  He would orchestrate a shot. He said, do you like it? I go, it's glorious. He's, wait a second. Can I get better? And he goes in and he changes one vector. You enter through the ride, you just stop right there and instantly it's better. And he says, better? I said, much better.

• 1:16:45Speaker 03

  But three takes. I always was like, oh, I do twelve takes. I started to say, I gotta be able to shoot it. I gotta let it go. Now, when you get the feeling, life is like water, right? Like if you are like this, how much water are you holding?

• 1:16:59Speaker 06

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:17:00Speaker 03

  And if you are like this.

• 1:17:01Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 1:17:02Speaker 03

  How much water are you holding? And I think the key to art is you have to feel when you have to do that, when you have to do that.

• 1:17:10Speaker 06

  Exactly.

• 1:17:10Dax Shepard?

  My life experience of that was I had bought an engagement ring for my wife. I had it for a while. I was going to go to a restaurant or it was the first place I ever said, I love you. It was gonna be around a certain day. That was like a month out. And then it's Christmas night and we're sitting in bed and there's this emotional thing happening. And I just went, oh, I'm gonna try to recreate this in a month at a restaurant, but it's now.

• 1:17:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:40Dax Shepard?

  And I went and got the wedding ring then, you know, and it was like, all right, no, it's happening now. Recognize when it's happening.

• 1:17:46Speaker 03

  Einstein said imagination is better than knowledge, right? More important than knowledge. And also. Living the moment as it wants to be because it wants to be that is wisdom. It's more important than any of the other things. And the problem is we pre conceive so much that we're living in not with a living animal, but a piece of taxidermy. Our life becomes taxidermy. Oh, if I don't get this, then it's not. No, no, life is so.

• 1:18:17Dax Shepard?

  Alive.

• 1:18:18Speaker 03

  Well, it's not domesticated.

• 1:18:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:21Speaker 03

  It is what it wants to be.

• 1:18:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:23Speaker 03

  Same with a movie. By the way, I say when people think I'm all you, you woo woo. When I say the movie tells you what it wants to be. I paint model kits on Sundays and there's a point in the coloring where the color tells you, you say, I'm going to paint it white and then you end up purple. And how it happens is you let the model and the color talk to you.

• 1:18:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a conversation.

• 1:18:45Speaker 03

  It's a conversation.

• 1:18:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:46Speaker 03

  Same with life.

• 1:18:47Dax Shepard?

  But it requires confidence.

• 1:18:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I think so.

• 1:18:50Dax Shepard?

  To let go. I think that requires I'll be fine. It'll be fine. Things will be fine if I let go.

• 1:18:56Speaker 03

  Well, there's a great mantra, no matter what, I'll be okay. Because it's a decision to be okay. I did a 10 day silent retreat.

• 1:19:05Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:19:05Speaker 03

  Completely silent. You couldn't make eye contact. You couldn't talk, blah, blah, blah. It was all about meditation. And there was a point where I had my first panic attack. Actually, the key is you are in the panic attack. I never had it for decades. I never had it. And I go, I couldn't recognize it.

• 1:19:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:19:24Speaker 03

  But you stay on it and you come out. Whatever you're going through, stay on it.

• 1:19:30Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:19:30Speaker 03

  The good, the bad, whatever, because it's gonna go.

• 1:19:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, panic attacks are interesting. I used to get them too.

• 1:19:35Speaker 03

  Often?

• 1:19:36Speaker 01

  I, yeah, I used to get them often, but I learned like what creates the panic is like, when's it gonna end? When's it gonna end? When's it gonna end? And when you just start to realize like, it's going to, but you don't get to decide, then it goes away. It's this fear of it never ending.

• 1:19:51Dax Shepard?

  It's the bood, the discomfort is the craving for a different state of being.

• 1:19:56Speaker 03

  That's exactly right.

• 1:19:57Dax Shepard?

  Discomfort is.

• 1:19:58Speaker 01

  Acceptance of it. This is me right now.

• 1:20:00Speaker 03

  The problem is not the lacking, is the wanting.

• 1:20:02Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly.

• 1:20:04Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:20:04Speaker 03

  I don't have, that's a problem, not the having. But you know what you're describing exactly? That's life. When is it gonna end? It will.

• 1:20:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:20:13Dax Shepard?

  Not on your time schedule, probably.

• 1:20:15Speaker 03

  You know, everybody that dies had laundry to pick up. Everybody that dies went, oh, I was gonna go to the dentist. Not anymore, buddy.

• 1:20:25Dax Shepard?

  I have a question about Pan's Labyrinth because it was quite celebrated, obviously. You were nominated for six Oscars. You won three. You got a 22 minute standing ovation, uh, which is the longest in history at Cannes.

• 1:20:37Speaker 03

  At Cannes, it still holds the record.

• 1:20:39Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:20:39Speaker 03

  In international festivals, it got broken this year. In Venice, it got 25 one film. But in Cannes, it still holds. It was really surprising. I mean, they programmed us the last day of the festival. Most journalists had gone.

• 1:20:53Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:20:54Speaker 03

  We were expecting the movie to just play. And in France, the audiences are very silent. At the end, like if a movie is not playing, you hear the seats.

• 1:21:04Speaker 03

  Cause they make it a point.

• 1:21:07Dax Shepard?

  They want you to know I'm walking out.

• 1:21:08Speaker 03

  I'm walking out.

• 1:21:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:21:10Speaker 03

  But they don't react to the movie. Like American audiences are woo, ah, don't get in there. Get out, run. Yeah, yeah. Mexican audience is also very silent. But in France, all of a sudden, in the middle of the movie, people starting to ooh and ah. And when she cuts his mouth in the middle of the movie, they gave it a huge ovation. And I thought, this is landing differently.

• 1:21:32Dax Shepard?

  I have many questions about this. And when I imagine being in this situation, I think I would love the first three minutes.

• 1:21:41Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:21:42Dax Shepard?

  I would feel so validated and loved. And then at about the five minute marker, I might think.

• 1:21:48Speaker 03

  You don't know what to do.

• 1:21:48Dax Shepard?

  When is this gonna end? And everyone's looking at me. And to know that there was 17 more minutes back to Seinfeld, this is an episode of Seinfeld.

• 1:21:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is a commute.

• 1:21:57Dax Shepard?

  What, yeah, what, what goes through, what's the real time visceral experience? Like, do you get self-conscious? Then do you move past that? Are there waves of accepting it and rejecting it?

• 1:22:07Speaker 03

  It's very uncomfortable at some point.

• 1:22:10Speaker 03

  Alfonso Cuarón, who no matter what, I tell him, it's not necessary, Alfonso, to tell the truth all the time. Alfonso is like 100% true. Yeah, he doesn't. He's brutal. And he noticed and he said, let it in.

• 1:22:28Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:22:29Speaker 03

  Take it in, pal. Don't fight it.

• 1:22:31Dax Shepard?

  It would be hard not to fight.

• 1:22:33Speaker 03

  I'm not very good with too much praise.

• 1:22:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:38Speaker 03

  Alfonso said that and I was able to. It was also surreal. And then it didn't show up almost anywhere because most people had left. So it was like if a, if a tree falls in the forest, but then eventually it trickled out. And Thierry, the head of the festival, said it got the longest standing ovation in the history of the festival. And that got picked up. But the first review was not a good review.

• 1:23:01Dax Shepard?

  Really?

• 1:23:02Speaker 03

  I think the headline, I may be wrong, it was like, this ain't Blade 2.

• 1:23:06Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:23:07Speaker 01

  Okay, that's a take.

• 1:23:08Dax Shepard?

  It can go either way. We need to know how that person feels about Blade 2 to begin with.

• 1:23:12Speaker 03

  For example, when Alejandro Alfonso and I are gonna open a movie, there's always trepidation. We always say, look, Alfonso is very, very wise and he's very worldly in certain ways, but he's tough. But he says, if you make a bad movie and you win a few awards, is it not a bad movie anymore? I said, if you make a good movie and you don't get any awards, is it a bad movie? We live and die by our latest record in this industry. And then, you know, the best place to be is when you say, whatever happens, I'll be okay. Like, I don't need any more reaffirmation. The only thing you do is, did I do it my way?

• 1:23:51Speaker 01

  Do you like it?

• 1:23:53Dax Shepard?

  Did I get the thing in my head out in the way I'm proud of?

• 1:23:55Speaker 03

  That's exactly right.

• 1:23:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Did I make the thing I wanted to see?

• 1:23:59Speaker 03

  That's it. I mean, they always say, well, either you choose the movie. I say, the one nobody else would do is the one I do, even if it's Blade 2 or Hellboy.

• 1:24:07Dax Shepard?

  Your career is definitely defined by that. I think it's so exciting because so many people have not seen Pan's Labyrinth 20 years ago.

• 1:24:15Speaker 03

  On screen, certainly.

• 1:24:16Dax Shepard?

  Right. And then now, so not only, obviously, the visual of it has changed in ways. What are you finding for you that's shocking about, let's say, watching it in 3D? Like, what is new or exciting to you?

• 1:24:31Speaker 03

  Well, when I did Pacific Rim, I quite pointedly, my first thought was really silly. I said, I wish I could go back and do Pan's in 3D.

• 1:24:42Dax Shepard?

  Oh, no kidding.

• 1:24:43Speaker 03

  Cause the posterization was so good and I felt I could make the fantasy world a little deeper and the real world a little more shallow.

• 1:24:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:24:52Speaker 03

  Of course, I didn't own the movie. I couldn't control it. I couldn't spend the money to do it. Nobody would. So I thought, well, out of my head. Then it took me 15 years to buy Pan's Labyrinth back.

• 1:25:03Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 1:25:04Speaker 03

  I got it back. And the first thing is, I wanna try and do it in 3D?

• 1:25:08Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:25:09Speaker 01

  So cool.

• 1:25:09Dax Shepard?

  I'm so excited to see it.

• 1:25:11Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 1:25:12Speaker 03

  The thing with the 3D, if you use it creatively, if you actually are supplementing the story with that and the experience is deeper, then it's worth it. And we did it very pointedly with the same company that we did Pacific Rim. And we did it by the same manual human method. I mean, there are shortcuts now with AI and all this. And I said, it's my money. I wanna spend more money and do it with a person making that decision.

• 1:25:39Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:25:40Speaker 03

  Than a machine or an algorithm.

• 1:25:42Dax Shepard?

  I just wanna do four minutes on Frankenstein because I had the most glorious experience with Frankenstein, which is unfortunately, I think Jacob Elordi overshadowed what I, you. I didn't know you made that movie. I knew there was a Frankenstein movie coming out with Jacob Elordi.

• 1:26:02Speaker 03

  Oh, thank God.

• 1:26:03Dax Shepard?

  We were at Friends House and they're like, let's watch this. I heard it was good. And I'm like, okay, I'll give it a shot. And from the second it starts, I go, oh, someone very special is behind this movie. The imagery immediately is so overwhelming.

• 1:26:24Dax Shepard?

  That I went, this has to be Guillermo. Like, I didn't know that was you.

• 1:26:29Speaker 06

  He's such a fingerprint.

• 1:26:30Dax Shepard?

  It's such a, it makes me emotional what you achieve visually with that movie. It's so mind blowing that I wanted to ask you, do you think you're a painter?

• 1:26:43Speaker 03

  Nah.

• 1:26:43Dax Shepard?

  What do we think? Well, how do I, how do I understand why you're able to create images in the way you do?

• 1:26:51Speaker 03

  Ambitiously extremely disciplined, but by this, I also say I, I am joyful in the creation of images. I think 80% of the communication with an audience is not verbal, meaning we have the play. That's one thing, the screenplay, but we have the audio visual screenplay and that you code in colors, shapes, light is nonverbal and most of the movie is submerged in that.

• 1:27:17Dax Shepard?

  But the pleasure of consuming the image, it's, it's very rare that you are aware of the pleasure you're receiving just looking at this composition.

• 1:27:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:29Dax Shepard?

  It's so powerful and soothing.

• 1:27:32Speaker 03

  It comes from painting.

• 1:27:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:34Speaker 03

  It comes from me studying the painters as a kid with that encyclopedia of art and learning what a difference it made when the romantic school of painting, what is it trying to achieve? The symbolists, what are they trying to achieve? Why is it important that a small painting like the origin of the world? Why is it important to paint peasants eating potatoes, which was not academically acceptable before? And understanding that from my really early age, you became what you ate, but also in a way that favors communication, where you say, I love Jack Kirby, right? I love, uh, Steve Ditko. I love all the comic book artists, but I also love Manet, Monet, and having the same value.

• 1:28:18Speaker 03

  So you say, okay, I'm gonna entertain and surprise, but also it's a pulse. Every image either relaxes you or takes you to a wow.

• 1:28:27Dax Shepard?

  Gives you tension.

• 1:28:28Speaker 03

  If you make every image equally important, you're not doing your job right. You have to know when you want people to lean in and when you want them to lean back.

• 1:28:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Back to the ebb and flow of life. The ebb and flow has to exist in this thing.

• 1:28:42Speaker 03

  So you design it like a symphony. You have an overture.

• 1:28:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And we slow down and we take a breath.

• 1:28:47Speaker 03

  You have to have a largan, allegro and allegro and entropo, you have to make it symphonic. Because the aspiration of a movie is to be like music, to transport you.

• 1:28:57Dax Shepard?

  Music has this miraculous quality, which is it seems to enter you.

• 1:29:02Speaker 03

  Is the highest art form, in my opinion, music. And when any of the other forms achieves a little bit, that musical, uh.

• 1:29:11Dax Shepard?

  Magic. Yeah.

• 1:29:12Speaker 03

  I mean, I always say, look, Orpheus, go to your DC out because he was a musician, almost cut her out. He didn't, he failed at the end, but I'm saying if he was a movie director, both would be in hell from the start. He would say, listen to me, I need a hundred and 20 people and a few million dollars to show you my art. And the musician just grabs an instrument and even no instrument and just the human voice. This is what you come at the end of the discussion about art. The only treasure we have is a voice and each of us have a voice.

• 1:29:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:44Speaker 03

  And each of us have one song, one song you sing. And when you hear the right voice, sing the right song.

• 1:29:51Dax Shepard?

  Like what is language? Language is this tool we use to get this thought in my head into your head. And then music somehow is this fast pass of like, let me give you the emotion in my heart. Let me open my mouth and let this noise out and you can feel my emotion. That's like such magic.

• 1:30:09Speaker 03

  When you talk about language, that's the magical thing about language. I write, English is my second language.

• 1:30:14Dax Shepard?

  Which is mind blowing. I can only imagine how smart you sound in Spanish.

• 1:30:17Speaker 03

  Which means that by the time I talk to you, I already thought it, proved it, converted it, checked the syntax.

• 1:30:25Speaker 06

  I can't believe it.

• 1:30:26Speaker 03

  And then said it in less than a second. So I value the language so much. I value the precision of the term. Mark Twain said, the difference between the right word and the next to right word is the difference between the lighting bug and lining.

• 1:30:42Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:30:43Speaker 03

  There is so much of music in the language.

• 1:30:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:47Speaker 03

  The alliterations, the rhythm of the consonants, the way consonants are music. And when the voice is right, I mean, they can say awesome wells.

• 1:30:57Dax Shepard?

  Right. Who cares what he's saying? You're a soup can. Yeah.

• 1:31:00Speaker 03

  It's like I used to joke about the guy in the trailers ordering a pizza. I want double pepperoni.

• 1:31:10Speaker 03

  But that's the thing. We all have the human voice. Please let's not lose it. That's all I have to say about art. Please don't make it about an image or a sound. It's the human voice. Can we understand that if we lose our voice, we all are something not human? I mean, whatever the hell will stand in our future in two legs, if we lose the human voice, that thing, no matter how wealthy, no matter how full of comfort, that thing is not gonna be a human being. Can we all understand the stakes? Don't short things that can divide us. That's the magic of the human voice.

• 1:31:49Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Last thing I promise on Frankenstein. I want to applaud him publicly. I think the Oscar Isaac performance is among

• 1:31:58Speaker 03

  incredibly complex.

• 1:31:59Dax Shepard?

  The most vanity free performances I've ever seen.

• 1:32:04Speaker 03

  I agree with you.

• 1:32:05Dax Shepard?

  It's so beautifully unvain. I don't know what else to say.

• 1:32:09Speaker 06

  Unselfconscious.

• 1:32:09Dax Shepard?

  Unselfconscious, total lack of vanity. And I want to know, did he arrive like that? Did you guys work to be that? What happened there? That's so special.

• 1:32:16Speaker 03

  First of all, thank you. And I'm gonna say actors is like magicians or comedians. You know, when you did the pause at the right place, right?

• 1:32:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:27Speaker 03

  But you also know when you did not filter it through vanity, when you were completely in danger.

• 1:32:33Dax Shepard?

  Let me show you the ugliest version of myself.

• 1:32:36Speaker 03

  The most vulnerable. I mean, that performance is A, incredibly hard to deliver.

• 1:32:42Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:32:42Speaker 03

  B, perfectly delivered.

• 1:32:44Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:32:44Speaker 03

  It does what it needs you to experience.

• 1:32:46Dax Shepard?

  It's a master doing it.

• 1:32:48Speaker 03

  It is a master performance from this guy. We had a great talk. He is my brother. He's one of my brothers in life. I adore him. I said to him, look, I've been Victor and I've been the creature. And I said, I've been the worst and I've been the most vulnerable. And the fact that we are paradoxical beings, if you're the actor and I'm the visionary director, we cannot deliver this movie. I said, you have to be a flawed motherfucker. I have to come to you and say, I don't know. And I have to come in and say, we are fucked up.

• 1:33:23Speaker 06

  We gotta figure this out.

• 1:33:24Speaker 03

  I said, so the next few months, I gotta tell you everything I've done wrong in life. And you have to tell me everything you've done wrong in life and we have to come in as imperfect as we can to this movie. Because the rest I already took care of.

• 1:33:40Dax Shepard?

  Everything visually has been.

• 1:33:41Speaker 03

  You and I are gonna have to fluctuate and we achieved something that made us very vulnerable. And, and there was a moment in that movie where my entire bottom as a human being fell through. We were connected. I could see him from the other side of the room and I would go, and he goes.

• 1:33:59Speaker 06

  Oh, amazing.

• 1:34:00Dax Shepard?

  What an experience you got to share with a human on earth.

• 1:34:03Speaker 03

  Incredible. I knew when he didn't know and I knew when he knew.

• 1:34:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:08Speaker 06

  You were one being.

• 1:34:09Speaker 03

  One being.

• 1:34:10Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:34:10Speaker 03

  And that is to this day, the best experience I've ever had.

• 1:34:14Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:34:14Dax Shepard?

  It's so obvious. It's so obvious. Something very, very special happened.

• 1:34:19Speaker 03

  Some movies are brawlers and they take care of themselves. This movie was a brawler. Like losing the actor for the creature, nine weeks or so before we start shooting.

• 1:34:29Dax Shepard?

  I didn't even know that happened.

• 1:34:30Speaker 03

  I was not afraid. I said, something better is coming. And I talked to Jacob and I see him on the zoom. I said, that's the guy.

• 1:34:38Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:34:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:39Speaker 06

  He's incredible in it as well.

• 1:34:40Speaker 03

  And from then on, two takes, three takes with that guy, max.

• 1:34:44Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:34:44Speaker 03

  And the direction was simple.

• 1:34:47Dax Shepard?

  He is a monster. I mean, he's a beautiful monster, but I was on a red carpet at like the Golden Globes and I turned around and I just was in his chest, right? And I'm a large man. And I go, oh my God, you're glorious. This is literally my first words to him. I'm like, you're glorious.

• 1:35:03Speaker 06

  Stunning. Like he takes your breath away.

• 1:35:06Speaker 03

  There was never a question about the makeup. There was never a question about how much of me is gonna show up. He just went in. Then you know, whatever happens, like for example, I work with Mia Goth, who's completely in central.

• 1:35:19Dax Shepard?

  She's riveting.

• 1:35:20Speaker 03

  She's riveting and because I never knew what was gonna happen in the thing, but she's real. The two realest actors I've worked with are Sally Hawkins on her, which you didn't know. And all of a sudden you were, uh, uh, cut.

• 1:35:33Dax Shepard?

  And I'm guessing too, you don't even want to be a part of whatever's happening. Like just, I don't ever wanna fuck up this thing that's happening.

• 1:35:40Speaker 03

  I remember, for example, in the scene between her and him, we have the butterfly on the table. And in the third take, she drops down and talks to the butterfly. She decided that.

• 1:35:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:35:52Speaker 03

  I had her holding it like Hamlet.

• 1:35:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:35:55Speaker 03

  And she just dropped down to the level of the butterfly and the next take, I, I went down with the camera. I said, let's be prepared.

• 1:36:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:36:02Speaker 03

  But you know, I opened myself. I said, I have to know a little.

• 1:36:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:07Speaker 03

  But she, the first day, I said, well, this is your mark. And I'm very precise with the camera normally.

• 1:36:13Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:36:13Speaker 03

  I said, this is your mark. You're gonna stop here and I'm gonna do a mini master. And she says, what is a mini master? And why do I have to stand there? I knew this was coming from purity.

• 1:36:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, not ego.

• 1:36:24Speaker 03

  Not an ego. And she said, why don't we shoot it and see what happens? And I go, yeah, why not?

• 1:36:28Speaker 06

  Oh, good for you.

• 1:36:30Speaker 03

  There was a countdown.

• 1:36:32Speaker 03

  And I went, yeah, why not?

• 1:36:34Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:36:35Dax Shepard?

  Okay. When does pans come out? Pans live?

• 1:36:37Speaker 03

  Comes up on my birthday, October 9th.

• 1:36:41Speaker 06

  Happy birthday.

• 1:36:41Dax Shepard?

  Okay, wonderful. I will be watching it in 3D. Guillermo, it's such an enormous honor to get to chat with you for two hours. I just really feel lucky.

• 1:36:50Speaker 06

  Sometimes we have singers who come.

• 1:36:52Speaker 01

  And they'll sing and sometimes we're like, how is this our job to be here?

• 1:36:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, Marcus Mumford sitting there screaming at us with his guitar.

• 1:37:00Speaker 01

  In the zone with them. And like, that's how I feel getting to look at that.

• 1:37:04Speaker 03

  But isn't that amazing? What's happiness? We do what we love in whatever moment and doesn't have to be the moment of acting or the moment of directing. But our life is aligned up with our joy.

• 1:37:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's a special.

• 1:37:20Speaker 03

  That's a, that's a blessing.

• 1:37:22Speaker 01

  It is.

• 1:37:22Dax Shepard?

  Oh, well, what a blast.

• 1:37:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you.

• 1:37:25Speaker 03

  And I didn't drink the liquid death.

• 1:37:26Speaker 01

  Oh, no. You can take it with you.

• 1:37:29Speaker 03

  There's a great rule to directing. If you drink, you pee. If you pee, you leave.

• 1:37:34Speaker 03

  Never leave the set.

• 1:37:35Speaker 01

  I like that.

• 1:37:36Dax Shepard?

  All right. Well, be well. Thanks for coming.

• 1:37:38Speaker 03

  Thank you. Bye bye, guys. He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's gonna let him have the facts.

• 1:37:49Speaker 01

  I just peed. And my underwear is on backwards. So.

• 1:37:54Dax Shepard?

  Backwards?

• 1:37:55Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:37:56Dax Shepard?

  Not inside out?

• 1:37:57Speaker 01

  Nope. Backwards.

• 1:37:59Dax Shepard?

  Aren't your underwear generally bigger in front than in back?

• 1:38:02Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:38:03Dax Shepard?

  Don't you really notice up front having, apparently not?

• 1:38:08Speaker 01

  Apparently not.

• 1:38:09Dax Shepard?

  Did you correct it or you're like, this is working?

• 1:38:10Speaker 01

  No, I didn't have time.

• 1:38:13Speaker 01

  So I left it.

• 1:38:13Dax Shepard?

  I see you were sitting on the commode and you looked down and you're like, oh, those are backwards.

• 1:38:17Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:38:18Dax Shepard?

  And then you're like, but fucking who has the time?

• 1:38:20Speaker 01

  What do I do? Take off my shoes, my pants? I have a belt on.

• 1:38:22Dax Shepard?

  I don't know that you'd have to take your shoes off to take your pants off.

• 1:38:25Speaker 01

  It, trust me, I could, but it would take a lot of thought.

• 1:38:29Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:38:30Speaker 01

  And they're slippery shoes. It would come off anyway.

• 1:38:33Dax Shepard?

  Wow, you committed. There's no physical discomfort, though.

• 1:38:36Speaker 01

  No, I mean, it's a comfy. It's a, it's a thong.

• 1:38:40Dax Shepard?

  Sure. So now it's.

• 1:38:42Speaker 01

  It's not a string. It's, it's not a, what are they called? I don't even, I don't even know what that's called anymore.

• 1:38:48Dax Shepard?

  String bikini?

• 1:38:51Speaker 01

  It's not a g string. I wouldn't notice if it was a g string.

• 1:38:54Dax Shepard?

  Right. And it was, yeah.

• 1:38:56Speaker 01

  Maybe the, I also think maybe these are a little stretched out.

• 1:39:00Dax Shepard?

  Okay. The elasticity is in better days.

• 1:39:03Speaker 01

  So like, it's probably covering up more than it should.

• 1:39:06Dax Shepard?

  Okay, okay. Right.

• 1:39:09Speaker 01

  This leads me to.

• 1:39:10Dax Shepard?

  But the back doesn't feel like cumbersome and bound up. Like, you don't feel like you have a bunch of fabric back there?

• 1:39:15Speaker 01

  No, because it's still a small amount of fabric in the front, you know?

• 1:39:19Dax Shepard?

  Sure, sure.

• 1:39:20Speaker 01

  So this leads me to the fact that I did not fast math. Well, I, maybe I did fast math, which is why it was.

• 1:39:29Dax Shepard?

  Too fast.

• 1:39:29Speaker 01

  Incorrect. Yes. Where I thought I was starting my period this past Monday. It's Wednesday.

• 1:39:35Dax Shepard?

  We had, in fact, we had a guest that's coming out.

• 1:39:38Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:39:38Dax Shepard?

  Where a good chunk of the interview is talking about your different phases and you were completely on, you're talking out of your ass on that one in retrospect.

• 1:39:45Speaker 01

  I was. And I, and I, maybe we were in the same, I don't even know.

• 1:39:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:51Speaker 01

  But I thought I was about to start my period and I, I'm not. It's upcoming Monday.

• 1:39:59Dax Shepard?

  Like the app I now have, Flow?

• 1:40:00Speaker 01

  I had it for a little bit.

• 1:40:02Dax Shepard?

  And you're like, uh, yeah. I have an open mind since that plane ride, if I'm being honest. I should.

• 1:40:08Speaker 01

  Since that plane ride?

• 1:40:09Dax Shepard?

  When I first started using it. When I discovered I had already made the meal I was supposed to make.

• 1:40:13Speaker 01

  Oh, right.

• 1:40:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:40:15Speaker 01

  Okay, um.

• 1:40:16Dax Shepard?

  Day one of having the app.

• 1:40:18Speaker 01

  Well, you can tell people they don't know what's going on. It's not out yet. You have flow.

• 1:40:23Dax Shepard?

  Yes, I have flow for partners. So I, I, I in theory know what my partner is going through.

• 1:40:29Speaker 01

  I actually, I think that's so, for one, like, smart.

• 1:40:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:35Speaker 01

  Two, it's very sweet. It's that you care to know what's going on with your partner.

• 1:40:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:40Speaker 01

  I recommend this for people in partnerships.

• 1:40:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. I do too.

• 1:40:45Speaker 01

  I asked if you, if like, there was an ability, like a Google Calendar where you had a lot of people. So you had your partner, you have, you have Kristen. You have both of your teenage girls, you have me, all the women you have to deal with on a daily basis.

• 1:40:59Dax Shepard?

  I actually need like the AI version. That's like, you should make up a reason to go out of town these 36 hours. That's never how it should be used.

• 1:41:09Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 1:41:09Dax Shepard?

  No, stick around and enjoy.

• 1:41:11Speaker 01

  Make us all dinner on our days. That'd be fun.

• 1:41:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:41:16Speaker 01

  Um, but anyway, so I think the backwards underwear has to do with my face.

• 1:41:21Dax Shepard?

  Impending period.

• 1:41:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:23Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:41:24Speaker 01

  But I was so bummed. I know, but now I'm, I thought that. I was like, have I done bad math again? Is it two weeks away? Because normally I'm not in so great of a mood. I have pretty bad PMDD.

• 1:41:40Speaker 01

  That's an intense version of PMS. And I think I have.

• 1:41:43Dax Shepard?

  Double Virgo.

• 1:41:45Speaker 01

  Double D's.

• 1:41:46Dax Shepard?

  Double D. You like things in doubles.

• 1:41:48Speaker 01

  I do, I do, I do. Um, so I'm normally, I can tell because I'm very easily agitated.

• 1:41:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Well, though, and I don't want this to sound insulting. Let me back up and say, do you remember the great guess we had that 30% of all medical issues are psychosomatic, right? That we learned that 30% of people with seizures don't have epilepsy, 30% of people with heart attacks don't have heart disease. That it's kind of a standard. So just acknowledging we're very, very prone to psychosomatic conditions. Do you think any element of it is psychosomatic?

• 1:42:23Speaker 01

  So you didn't need to say that.

• 1:42:26Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 1:42:26Speaker 01

  Cause I was gonna say that.

• 1:42:27Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay. Oh, here it is.

• 1:42:32Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:42:34Speaker 01

  No, because I was gonna say, well, two things. One, I am in a good mood.

• 1:42:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:40Speaker 01

  For the most part.

• 1:42:40Dax Shepard?

  Chipper, I'd say. Spring to your step.

• 1:42:43Speaker 01

  And that worries me a little that I'm not, not doing math.

• 1:42:48Dax Shepard?

  Still not.

• 1:42:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not doing math correctly. But also what it did tell me was that, yeah, some of it might be in your head because you're expecting it. But I was in a very good mood last week.

• 1:43:01Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:43:01Speaker 01

  And I, I, I said to myself, I'm like, I'm, I don't have that anymore.

• 1:43:06Dax Shepard?

  Right. So you're, you're ready to, you're happy to shed it.

• 1:43:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was like, oh, I must not have, that's gone away.

• 1:43:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:14Speaker 01

  Um, but I did have a few other things, like my back was hurting. These are all, you know.

• 1:43:19Dax Shepard?

  I think this is the way in which it could manifest itself psychosomatically, which is you have a bit of irritability. And then you go, oh, here we go. Right? Like, oh, it's here. Whereas that might have just been an acute moment of irritability. But certainly if you, if you're like, here we go, I do think you're then really noticing your, things that are irritating you, perhaps.

• 1:43:43Speaker 01

  But then the, um, you know, the backwards underwear is very prepared. Yeah, you're dropping stuff. I don't understand. I spill a lot.

• 1:43:51Dax Shepard?

  Clumsy.

• 1:43:52Speaker 01

  Get real clumsy.

• 1:43:54Dax Shepard?

  PMSCC.

• 1:43:55Speaker 01

  PMS clumsy clumsy.

• 1:43:58Dax Shepard?

  Crazy clumsy.

• 1:43:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, um, that's what's going on with me.

• 1:44:02Dax Shepard?

  I went to a concert last night.

• 1:44:04Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. C, C.

• 1:44:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:07Speaker 01

  How was it?

• 1:44:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And I try not to name drop, but this feels like it would be insane not to name drop. I went to see Jack White with Jack Black.

• 1:44:17Speaker 01

  No way.

• 1:44:19Dax Shepard?

  How great is that?

• 1:44:20Speaker 01

  That's great. Are they best friends?

• 1:44:23Dax Shepard?

  Well, did you see the SNL that they did last year? It's among the most impressive things I've ever seen. It's Jack Black. He's hosting SNL and Jack White is the musician that night.

• 1:44:37Speaker 01

  I love this.

• 1:44:38Dax Shepard?

  So he does a version of Seven Nation Army. But walking through the green room, talking to cast members, then comes out on stage, then collides with Jack White. And then they let it fucking rip. It's like impressive on 20 levels.

• 1:44:53Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:44:54Dax Shepard?

  The comedy is happening, the improv is happening, the synchronicity of the song is how it's.

• 1:44:59Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:45:00Dax Shepard?

  There's a couple of people in the world that can do what Jack Black did in that thing.

• 1:45:04Speaker 01

  Talented.

• 1:45:05Dax Shepard?

  So fucking talented.

• 1:45:06Speaker 01

  If you missed that episode, go back in the archives. We did interview him. Great app.

• 1:45:11Dax Shepard?

  So then Wabi Wabi was nice enough to connect me with tickets.

• 1:45:15Speaker 01

  Great.

• 1:45:16Dax Shepard?

  So I then reach out to Jack Black. Now, this is the second time this has happened in my life. So one time, as you might recall, I invited Matthew McConaughey to a standup performance at this arena on a date, basically.

• 1:45:31Speaker 01

  Andrew Schultz, yeah.

• 1:45:32Dax Shepard?

  Andrew Schultz. And we went and it was embarrassing because like I had gotten tickets, but of course, like, he had built the arena. Like he had helped design the arena. So then he's like, well, yeah, we, we could totally do your thing or we could go sit in this box, blah, blah, blah. So it's just kind of funny. Like I invited him and it was like.

• 1:45:47Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 1:45:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:45:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:48Dax Shepard?

  So a similar thing happened, which is I was like, oh, I know Jack likes Jack White. I have two tickets. Um, I don't know who to go with on Tuesday night. So I invited him and he was like, uh, yeah, okay, great. Let's, um, we'll ride there. So he rides an electric motorcycle, which is fantastic. So he should, I mean, maybe the highlight of that was him and I riding around on motorcycles to go to this show. Just chatting at every stoplight. It was so fun. But of course, like, and again, major blessings to Wabi Wabi. He had hooked me up. I was gonna get very nice treatment. But then I arrived with Jack Black. And then it was like, as we're coming in the parking lot, it's just like, everyone there knows to instruct him to go there. He goes to shows there all the time. He has a special parking spot.

• 1:46:30Dax Shepard?

  We don't, nothing, like, you just go anywhere you want. You want to sit on Jack White's lap? Like, you name it. So.

• 1:46:38Speaker 01

  So you didn't end up sitting in the seats you got?

• 1:46:41Dax Shepard?

  No, and I got to sit on the stage with Jack Black.

• 1:46:44Speaker 01

  On the stage?

• 1:46:44Dax Shepard?

  He had just staged right, like where the guitar tech is working on the guitars and stuff.

• 1:46:48Speaker 01

  Backstage, side stage.

• 1:46:49Dax Shepard?

  Yes, staged right. And then also I get to meet Jack White because I'm with Jack Black.

• 1:46:56Speaker 01

  Oh, fun.

• 1:46:57Dax Shepard?

  It was so fun. It was so fun. And then as Wabi Wabi and I were just discussing, it, Jack White is so worth seeing in your lifetime. What he does with this guitar is almost really beyond description. He's doing something much, much different than just, he's like, he's forming a piece of metal into something, right? There's like, he's at war with this fucking guitar and he just manhandles it in this way that is just really wild. I don't think I've ever, anyone's seen anyone live play guitar like he was doing.

• 1:47:26Speaker 01

  Wow. That's awesome. He's from Michigan.

• 1:47:28Dax Shepard?

  You know, John C. Riley, um, is in the video for Archbishop, one of my favorite songs.

• 1:47:35Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:47:37Dax Shepard?

  One album ago. What's the name of that song, Wabi Wabi? Holmes. Harold Holmes, Archbishop Harold Holmes, and it's about a preacher, right? And I didn't even know this, but John C. Riley, I had seen the video, John C. Riley did a video of him in a church as a preacher to that song. Well, John C. Riley was there last night, and then I found out from him, he just made that video. That wasn't like a request.

• 1:48:01Speaker 01

  Oh, fun.

• 1:48:02Dax Shepard?

  He just wa- he loved the song so much, he wanted to make a video. Yeah, so he was right there in his garb from the video.

• 1:48:10Speaker 01

  Preacher's garb?

• 1:48:12Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes. Well, it's cute top hat and stuff.

• 1:48:14Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:48:15Dax Shepard?

  I don't know if you call it.

• 1:48:15Speaker 01

  We're not supposed to call it that, but yeah. But I know what you mean.

• 1:48:19Dax Shepard?

  Wait, you're not supposed to say top hat?

• 1:48:21Speaker 01

  Well, no, I'm saying, because whatever he's wearing is not, yeah.

• 1:48:24Dax Shepard?

  It's not a top, yeah, he's not, he didn't look like Abe Lincoln.

• 1:48:26Speaker 01

  To me, it's more of a chef's hat looking.

• 1:48:29Dax Shepard?

  Stovepipe hat, maybe they call it.

• 1:48:30Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 1:48:32Dax Shepard?

  Anyways, it was a lot of fun.

• 1:48:33Speaker 01

  Fun.

• 1:48:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

• 1:48:35Speaker 01

  You were out in the world.

• 1:48:36Dax Shepard?

  I was out in the world, and I really, um, I really like that Jack Black so much.

• 1:48:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's so great.

• 1:48:43Dax Shepard?

  He's such a sweet boy.

• 1:48:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I like him a lot, too.

• 1:48:46Dax Shepard?

  Okay, my other story.

• 1:48:47Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:48:50Dax Shepard?

  Oh, back to back.

• 1:48:51Speaker 01

  Two stories. Oh, my God.

• 1:48:53Dax Shepard?

  Well, I'm happy to hear another one of your stories.

• 1:48:55Speaker 01

  You go, and I have more, but nothing.

• 1:48:58Dax Shepard?

  Oh, tell me yours, tell me yours. Okay, well, so, um, we don't have any air conditioning, like, period. Everything has been ripped out of the house.

• 1:49:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is, and, and for people who don't know, it's still very hot in LA.

• 1:49:11Dax Shepard?

  Oh, in the nineties, it's, we're in a heat wave, and it's getting even worse this week. It's getting, whoa, did you get a flight?

• 1:49:17Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:49:18Dax Shepard?

  And that.

• 1:49:19Speaker 01

  Listen, there's bugs everywhere.

• 1:49:22Dax Shepard?

  Kind of uncontrollably.

• 1:49:23Speaker 01

  We'll get to this.

• 1:49:24Dax Shepard?

  Okay, okay, okay.

• 1:49:25Speaker 01

  Go on.

• 1:49:26Dax Shepard?

  So we have no air conditioning. Bella's in Paris. And the girls and I go to bed night one with no air conditioning, and we're on the second floor, and it's, you know, it's warm. It's warm up there.

• 1:49:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:40Dax Shepard?

  It's very warm.

• 1:49:41Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:49:41Dax Shepard?

  And so we all start in my room, and we're, I'm just laying, you know, with pajama bottom pants, no shirt, no sheet, anything. I'm just laying.

• 1:49:52Speaker 01

  Is your underwear on correctly or backwards?

• 1:49:54Dax Shepard?

  I'm in my pajama pants.

• 1:49:56Speaker 01

  Oh, so you don't know what you're.

• 1:49:57Dax Shepard?

  Underwear with your pajama pants. I find that disgusting.

• 1:50:01Speaker 01

  You don't. Okay.

• 1:50:03Dax Shepard?

  I don't think anybody does.

• 1:50:04Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 1:50:05Dax Shepard?

  No, that's what jammy, I don't think men wear underwear with their jammy bottoms.

• 1:50:09Speaker 01

  Are you serious?

• 1:50:10Dax Shepard?

  Yes, Rob.

• 1:50:11Speaker 07

  Yeah, I wear, I wear underwear under it.

• 1:50:13Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:50:14Dax Shepard?

  Fucking prude.

• 1:50:15Speaker 01

  No, I think he's in the majority.

• 1:50:17Dax Shepard?

  Were you afraid you're gonna get a boner in the middle of the night?

• 1:50:20Speaker 07

  I also never wear pajama pants, so.

• 1:50:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:50:23Dax Shepard?

  Well, that's different. When I didn't wear pajama pants, I wore boxers to bed.

• 1:50:26Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:50:27Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:50:27Dax Shepard?

  But if you wore pajama pants, you'd put fucking underwear on under them?

• 1:50:31Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:50:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:32Speaker 07

  Because you're throwing it on if it's like cold and then.

• 1:50:34Dax Shepard?

  Do you leave your underwear on in a massage?

• 1:50:36Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:50:37Speaker 01

  A lot of people do. Listen.

• 1:50:39Speaker 07

  I was told I'm supposed to by.

• 1:50:43Dax Shepard?

  By my mom.

• 1:50:44Speaker 07

  No, recently, she's like, leave, you leave your underwear on.

• 1:50:47Speaker 01

  Listen, I also leave, I, I'm fifty fifty on leaving underwear on in a massage. I sometimes do, I sometimes don't.

• 1:50:53Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:50:53Speaker 01

  But also, um, I wear pajama pants all the time, constantly, and I'm wearing underwear.

• 1:50:59Dax Shepard?

  But your underwear are way smaller than my underwear, although your nighttime underwear might be better.

• 1:51:04Speaker 01

  See my underwear. My nighttime underwear is huge.

• 1:51:09Dax Shepard?

  They're knickers.

• 1:51:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:11Dax Shepard?

  My knicksies.

• 1:51:14Dax Shepard?

  Where was I? Okay, so.

• 1:51:17Speaker 01

  It was hot.

• 1:51:18Dax Shepard?

  Lincoln's particularly hot, and, and, and I think she gets it in her head, she's not gonna be able to sleep, and she's like me, right? So she's a little bit prone to.

• 1:51:26Speaker 01

  This psychosomatic.

• 1:51:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, whatever you call it, insomnia, right? She had a real bad year. She got over it, thank God. I thought she was never gonna get over it, but anyway, she got over it. But I, I, I could just feel that she got in in her head that she was not gonna be able to sleep, so she's already on pins and needles. I do fall asleep, and then I hear, Dad, stop snoring. Am I not ea- am I, and I'm, of course, I'm like, I bet I'm not, I bet, like, she's so.

• 1:51:56Speaker 01

  But you probably were, because.

• 1:51:57Dax Shepard?

  Easily agitated, because you already can't go to sleep.

• 1:51:59Speaker 01

  But didn't you say you've been snoring lately, and that's why you're doing the sleep test and stuff?

• 1:52:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but now I have a spray I'm using that I thought, you know, I, I am not a, um, a trustworthy witness, because I have, I didn't witness it.

• 1:52:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:52:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I was asleep.

• 1:52:12Speaker 01

  You're unreliable.

• 1:52:13Dax Shepard?

  All to say, though, okay, all right, sorry, I'll sleep on my side. I don't even, how does one not snore? It's not like I chose to snore in the first place.

• 1:52:21Speaker 01

  That's why, that's why snoring so.

• 1:52:24Dax Shepard?

  Now I've been woken up, and now it takes me another fifteen minutes to fall back asleep, and then as soon as I get to sleep, like, Dad! And I'm like, oh, my God, I can't, I, there's no, what are we gonna do? I, I'm like, okay, mind you, we were in my room, because it was the coolest of the, the three options.

• 1:52:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:52:41Dax Shepard?

  So I go, fine, I'll leave, I'll leave. So now I'm like, crumbling, I go into Delta's room, which is like seven hundred and fifty degrees, and I lay down on that bed, and it takes me about forty-five minutes to fall asleep in there. So now we're at about midnight, I'd say, that I'm going to bed. I wake up at six, one thirty AM, because unbeknownst to me, and I don't know if Lincoln, now Delta's snoring was bothering her, or she just was like, it's too hot in here. She went out to the guest house.

• 1:53:13Speaker 01

  Smart.

• 1:53:14Dax Shepard?

  Yes, because that does have air conditioning.

• 1:53:16Speaker 01

  I don't know why you guys.

• 1:53:17Dax Shepard?

  We should have started that, but absolutely stupid.

• 1:53:20Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:53:21Dax Shepard?

  So she's left, Delta was asleep when I left, so Delta wakes up at one thirty in the morning, nobody's in the room.

• 1:53:29Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:53:29Dax Shepard?

  Additionally, a couple spooky things happened by Delta's, Delta got convinced earlier when we were just in Delta's room, and we were listening to a book on tape. She went in the hallway, and Frank wasn't in his little bed, the dog, and she got convinced that someone had moved Frank out of his bed onto the hallway. And I said, well, hon, Frank would have barked if a stranger.

• 1:53:52Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 1:53:53Dax Shepard?

  But she had it in her mind a little bit that something spooky was already happening.

• 1:53:56Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 1:53:57Dax Shepard?

  Then she wakes up in a room, and no one's there anymore.

• 1:53:59Speaker 01

  Okay, she hated that.

• 1:54:00Dax Shepard?

  So at one thirty in the morning, after I finally fall asleep, all of a sudden, lights full blast are on in her bedroom, and now I'm up. She's crying.

• 1:54:10Speaker 01

  For you guys, oh, she's crying.

• 1:54:11Dax Shepard?

  She's scared. She's like, she woke up in her room, and no one was there. She went to bed, and there were people there. There's a ghost in the house moving Frank. And so I'm like, oh, my God, this is badness. Now it's one thirty, and we lay there for forty-five minutes, and it's just too hot in that room now. And I said, do you want to go back? And all to say, by the time we got in my bedroom, when we went to sleep, it was like three AM. It was madness. It was total chaos from nine PM till three in the morning was crazy.

• 1:54:41Speaker 01

  Bad.

• 1:54:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, barely made it through yesterday.

• 1:54:43Speaker 01

  But you did.

• 1:54:44Dax Shepard?

  And then when it was time to go see the concert, I'm like, I should be so excited to see the concert, but I would love to go to sleep right now.

• 1:54:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:51Dax Shepard?

  But I rallied.

• 1:54:52Speaker 01

  And you're happy about it?

• 1:54:53Dax Shepard?

  I'm happy about it.

• 1:54:54Speaker 01

  Speaking of sleep.

• 1:54:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:56Speaker 01

  I am convinced there's a bug in my ear.

• 1:55:02Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:55:02Speaker 01

  And I think he got in there in the night.

• 1:55:05Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:55:06Speaker 01

  And I can't get him out, because my ear is so itchy.

• 1:55:10Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:55:12Speaker 01

  And like, in a strange, it, it's in a strange way, like, very, very, very itchy. I used a Q-tip to, to see if I could get any legs out, um, and it, I think, just pushed him further in or something.

• 1:55:28Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:55:29Speaker 01

  Okay, also, likely, potentially, when I was like itching it a ton, I irritated it, and so now it's just itching because it's all irritated.

• 1:55:39Dax Shepard?

  Sounds highly likely.

• 1:55:40Speaker 01

  Oh, but also, but then, so I was like, is it possible? But I really don't want to go to urgent care. I don't want to like go deal with this. I just want him to come out, you know?

• 1:55:51Dax Shepard?

  Can you put a little food on the, um?

• 1:55:53Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:55:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, put a little food on the edge of your earlobe to draw him out to eat.

• 1:56:01Speaker 01

  A little piece of cheese.

• 1:56:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, whatever they eat. Maybe another dead, maybe a dead gnat. Glue it to your earlobe to lure him out to feast on it, and then he'll get stuck in the glue. Hope you woke up and there was like, there was six or seven, there's tons of bugs all over here, and then you wouldn't know if they just came from around the room or out of your ear.

• 1:56:24Speaker 01

  I wouldn't.

• 1:56:25Dax Shepard?

  You'd probably end up attracting some to live in your ear.

• 1:56:27Speaker 01

  I know. Ew, God.

• 1:56:30Dax Shepard?

  What about light? Does light do anything? Like, could you shine a light at night?

• 1:56:34Speaker 01

  I can't.

• 1:56:35Dax Shepard?

  I don't think you have.

• 1:56:38Speaker 01

  Ah!

• 1:56:42Speaker 01

  Nothing's coming out, and, um, but once you think something's in your ear, it is really.

• 1:56:48Dax Shepard?

  It's a racket.

• 1:56:49Speaker 01

  It is. It's like crazy making.

• 1:56:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:52Speaker 01

  Um, and I.

• 1:56:54Dax Shepard?

  And that's blood over to your elbow? Is that what you're about to say?

• 1:56:57Speaker 01

  Oh, no, there's just mosquitoes all over this fucking city, and I'm all bit. I, I hate that. Oh, but you know what was fun? So I went, this is not gonna, I always, I praise Cara. I love Cara.

• 1:57:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:57:09Speaker 01

  Cara does sometimes have mosquitoes.

• 1:57:12Dax Shepard?

  Well, it's outdoor.

• 1:57:14Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm talking about inside.

• 1:57:16Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:57:22Speaker 01

  I think, I don't remember.

• 1:57:23Dax Shepard?

  There a water feature in there that they're breeding in or something?

• 1:57:25Speaker 01

  Not inside, but right outside, there is a little.

• 1:57:27Dax Shepard?

  Well, there is outdoor eating, so maybe the doors are opening and closing so much.

• 1:57:31Speaker 01

  I think doors are opening and closing. There is a water feature outside that I wish they'd take out. They're doing their best, but for some reason, there's one of those mosquitoes. And last year, this is a thing, this isn't just this year. And so last year, I used to come with all those bracelets.

• 1:57:50Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah. Bug repellent bracelets.

• 1:57:53Speaker 01

  I used to keep them in my car and then I would just cover myself in them.

• 1:57:56Dax Shepard?

  Well, this is actually a advertisement for car, because if it's, you know, if you have to deal with mosquitoes and you still want to go, it's a testament to what a great place it is.

• 1:58:04Speaker 01

  It really is. But this year, I bought a spray, uh, because I did research and it said that DEET, the pop, the, the chemically popular one, that is fine, I'm fine. I want to use it. Like, I want to use the most.

• 1:58:17Dax Shepard?

  I love DEET, yeah.

• 1:58:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, but I read in an article that it does have the same effectiveness as this other thing that's like more natural, which I don't trust, but it said percentage wise, it's the same as DEET.

• 1:58:29Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:58:29Speaker 01

  So I got that.

• 1:58:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:32Speaker 01

  And I've been bringing that with me to car and spraying it all over.

• 1:58:35Dax Shepard?

  Like you're going camping with you.

• 1:58:36Speaker 01

  It is. I was spraying it and it's strong. Like it smells really strong. One time I was with Anna and I was like, you need this. And I just sprayed it at her and she hate, she really hated that.

• 1:58:47Dax Shepard?

  She's part mosquito. That's what you found out.

• 1:58:51Speaker 01

  I never even thought about that.

• 1:58:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, she might be part mosquito.

• 1:58:54Speaker 01

  Oh my God. Okay. This is a good way for me to test.

• 1:58:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's like vampires.

• 1:58:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:59Dax Shepard?

  Put garlic everywhere and see if they react poorly.

• 1:59:02Speaker 01

  She was more upset because she thought maybe it got in her martini. What?

• 1:59:06Dax Shepard?

  I'm allergic to garlic.

• 1:59:09Speaker 01

  And you stay up a lot at night?

• 1:59:11Dax Shepard?

  Prefer.

• 1:59:12Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:59:13Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, might be a van.

• 1:59:14Speaker 01

  How do you like the taste of blood?

• 1:59:16Dax Shepard?

  Fine.

• 1:59:19Speaker 01

  I don't know. Anyway, um, so yesterday I was at car editing and I had my mosquito spray and I.

• 1:59:26Dax Shepard?

  This is hilarious to bring mosquito spray to a restaurant. It really is something.

• 1:59:30Speaker 01

  I sprayed it all over. Um, and.

• 1:59:33Dax Shepard?

  What if they had it next to the toothpicks at like the host stand?

• 1:59:36Speaker 01

  No. So they, he, the bartender did come up to me before I took my spray out and he said, just see, if you want any of this mosquito spray.

• 1:59:49Speaker 01

  He said, it can get really, but he's like, it's been kind of, people have been getting bit, so I bought this. And I was like, well, not to worry, I have my own.

• 2:00:01Speaker 01

  I know. This isn't a great endorsement, but it, it, as you said, it is.

• 2:00:05Dax Shepard?

  When you went to a restaurant and they said, would you like bear spray? Because sometimes bears are in the restaurant. They do come in sometimes.

• 2:00:13Speaker 01

  Listen, okay, this gets a little crazier. So I sprayed all over and then I look over, someone's come in and it's still earlyish. And it's Leslie Bibb.

• 2:00:26Dax Shepard?

  Oh, great.

• 2:00:27Speaker 01

  Who I've never met.

• 2:00:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, not a friend of the pod.

• 2:00:29Speaker 01

  Yet. She should be.

• 2:00:32Dax Shepard?

  Yes. Her partner is.

• 2:00:34Speaker 01

  Exactly. So she's sitting next to me and I never do this. I don't, I, again, not really in keeping with my PMS, PMDD, but I was feeling friendly.

• 2:00:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, frisky.

• 2:00:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I was like, hey, I have this mosquito spray, um, if you want it, because there are.

• 2:00:55Dax Shepard?

  There's a ton of.

• 2:00:56Speaker 01

  I said, because there are, there are mosquitoes in here.

• 2:01:04Speaker 01

  And she was like, wait, what?

• 2:01:08Dax Shepard?

  Of course.

• 2:01:09Speaker 01

  She was like, there are mosquitoes. And then she was like, what, what's happening in Los Angeles?

• 2:01:13Dax Shepard?

  Why can't we have butterflies instead? Like, that would be way better.

• 2:01:16Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:01:17Dax Shepard?

  Replace them with butterflies.

• 2:01:19Speaker 01

  Um, she was like, what's going on with Los Angeles and mosquito? And I was like, I know it's horrible, but just, you know, if you want it. And so I put it there. She, she sprayed it on herself.

• 2:01:30Speaker 01

  And she was like, thank you. And I, and I said, I'm Monica. And she said, oh, hi, I'm Leslie. And I said, I, I do Armchair Expert. Yeah. I said, I, I do Armchair Expert with, with Dax. We interviewed your sweet partner. And she was like, oh my God. Yes. She was like, I know you. She was like, and then she brought up something I specifically said on that episode.

• 2:01:50Dax Shepard?

  Which was?

• 2:01:51Speaker 01

  Which was Sam Rockwell, for people who don't remember, uh, talked about how he went on safari. You guys were talking about going on safari.

• 2:02:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:02:02Speaker 01

  And he said, you know, like you were both so alert and aware of all the animals.

• 2:02:08Dax Shepard?

  Man eaters everywhere.

• 2:02:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. You, you guys were so aware. And he was like laughing because she was like, Leslie, Leslie's just sitting there so calm, not, not thinking twice. And I said, yeah, because she lives in a world where she's used to predators. You don't. And he told her that when he got home. He was like, I've been thinking about this. And, and, and so she brought that up and she thought it was really good.

• 2:02:31Dax Shepard?

  Nice.

• 2:02:31Speaker 01

  Um, so I liked that. And anyway, we started chatting for so long. And so I love her and I want to invite her on the pod.

• 2:02:39Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Did either of you buy each other's meal?

• 2:02:41Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:02:42Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:02:42Speaker 01

  She was about to have a meet, like a, um.

• 2:02:45Dax Shepard?

  Meeting.

• 2:02:45Speaker 01

  A meeting. So we just chat until her friends came.

• 2:02:47Dax Shepard?

  Did you eavesdrop on the meeting to see a project she's about to do?

• 2:02:50Speaker 01

  I wanted to, but.

• 2:02:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, of course.

• 2:02:52Speaker 01

  I had work to do.

• 2:02:53Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:02:53Speaker 01

  So my headphones were in.

• 2:02:54Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 2:02:57Speaker 04

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

• 2:03:03Dax Shepard?

  This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've thought about trying therapy with our long-term partner, BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session. October 10th is World Mental Health Day, but you don't need a day on the calendar to give yourself permission to talk to someone. I've been in therapy for a long time and the stuff rattling around in my head always just quiets down the second I say it out loud. And it doesn't have to be some big life crisis. Maybe it's a work thing that's taking up too much space or hard relationship moment, or just a feeling that something's off. That's enough. That's worth talking about.

• 2:03:41Speaker 01

  You know, I love therapy more than anything. Gets me through. Often I'll want to cancel because I'm like, I don't really have anything to talk about. And then I'll go and I have some major revelation.

• 2:03:52Dax Shepard?

  You know, I was just talking to a friend who has just started it. And I said, one of the most powerful elements of it is just hearing yourself say out loud, the thing that's been ruminating in your head and how different it sounds once it's out into the world. You gain perspective immediately just by hearing yourself say it.

• 2:04:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, you do.

• 2:04:08Dax Shepard?

  If you've been waiting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks and eligible members have an average copay of just $23 per session with insurance. Don't have insurance or live outside the US? You can still get 10% off your first month. Do yourself a favor and just try it. Future you will be grateful. Visit betterhelp.com/dax to explore your payment options. That's better H E L P dot com slash Dax.

• 2:04:42Speaker 01

  It was a fun meet cute.

• 2:04:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:45Speaker 01

  All because of mosquitoes, really.

• 2:04:47Dax Shepard?

  This makes me think Kristen was just on a flight home. I don't think I should out them because I don't know if it's public knowledge, but she was on a flight home from Paris and she saw a mutual friend.

• 2:04:56Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:04:56Dax Shepard?

  Friend of the pod. Who is flying home from White Lotus.

• 2:05:01Speaker 01

  Max?

• 2:05:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Is that public knowledge?

• 2:05:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, it's public knowledge. He's in White Lotus.

• 2:05:06Dax Shepard?

  Oh, then Max. I don't know. I don't want to hear anything. I got so happy he's going to be on the new season. No, I didn't know that.

• 2:05:12Speaker 01

  It's a big, it's so exciting.

• 2:05:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I don't really follow much casting news, I guess.

• 2:05:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:18Dax Shepard?

  Can't wait. Love Max.

• 2:05:21Speaker 01

  I can't wait for the next season, obviously. He should come on.

• 2:05:24Dax Shepard?

  You know, I'd like to be on White Lotus.

• 2:05:26Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 2:05:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:27Speaker 01

  Let's, we've said it here.

• 2:05:29Dax Shepard?

  You've heard it here from our lips to the, to Mike White.

• 2:05:33Speaker 01

  You're friends with, or you know, Mike White. You've worked with him.

• 2:05:37Dax Shepard?

  I have worked with Mike White. Yeah. I don't think that gives me an edge, but I have worked with Mike White. I love Mike White. I'll say that.

• 2:05:44Speaker 01

  I love him.

• 2:05:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I don't know if he loves me, but I love him. I love him.

• 2:05:49Speaker 01

  Listen, I'm really, I'm not jealous of you of anything.

• 2:05:54Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 2:05:54Speaker 01

  But I'm jealous of you for that, getting to work with him.

• 2:05:59Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 2:06:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:00Dax Shepard?

  But it was in an actor to actor capacity. It wasn't something he had written. That would be different.

• 2:06:05Speaker 01

  Oh, right.

• 2:06:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. It was just two actors.

• 2:06:07Speaker 01

  Oh, I thought, oh, I must be thinking of something.

• 2:06:12Speaker 01

  Then I'm not jealous of you.

• 2:06:13Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, there you go.

• 2:06:16Speaker 01

  Anywho, so speaking of white men.

• 2:06:20Dax Shepard?

  Oh, right. White Lotus, white man?

• 2:06:22Speaker 01

  Max is white.

• 2:06:23Dax Shepard?

  He is, yes.

• 2:06:24Speaker 01

  Um, attractive. Speaking of attractive white men.

• 2:06:27Dax Shepard?

  That's better.

• 2:06:28Speaker 01

  No, and it is part of this. So I started watching Traitors.

• 2:06:32Dax Shepard?

  Which I don't know about Traitors.

• 2:06:33Speaker 01

  Oh, Dax, I, Traitors is a big deal. Okay. It's, it's very.

• 2:06:38Dax Shepard?

  I apologize that I don't know.

• 2:06:40Speaker 01

  Okay. Thank you. Um, it's, it's highly watched reality TV and won the Emmy.

• 2:06:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we watch it.

• 2:06:46Speaker 01

  You watch it?

• 2:06:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Okay. Yeah, we love Traitors.

• 2:06:49Speaker 01

  It's so good.

• 2:06:51Dax Shepard?

  I feel way less bad that it's a reality show. I don't watch a ton of reality.

• 2:06:55Speaker 01

  I know, but you like, you know Survivor. You don't watch it.

• 2:06:58Dax Shepard?

  But I know of it. That's true.

• 2:06:59Speaker 01

  So you need to just know about Traitors because it's, yeah. Um, but anyway, I, I've never watched it yet. I've known people love it and stuff, but it hasn't been, I also don't watch reality TV. So I was like, I don't think it's going to be for me. But then, got to be in my bonnet. And I decided to start. And so there's a new season out now. So I started with this new season.

• 2:07:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:21Speaker 01

  And I caught up to where, it's week to week. So I caught up, I, I'm invested. So it's a real life Werewolves and Villagers slash mafia, which I think most people have played one of those two games.

• 2:07:33Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 2:07:33Speaker 01

  And this season is in quotes, normal people, but the other seasons are celebrities, but a lot of these celebrities are also from the reality TV world. So they're from Survivor or Real Housewives or, anyway, it's so fun. So I, I watched this new one and then I went back and I watched the last season. I watched the whole thing.

• 2:07:52Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 2:07:53Speaker 01

  And I love it, but I was getting so mad because spoiler. Yeah. Well, yeah, there's so much deception and spoiler. So if anyone is going to go back and wa, listen to, watch season four, skip ahead.

• 2:08:12Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:08:12Speaker 01

  Or pause.

• 2:08:13Dax Shepard?

  No, I think you have. Skip ahead. Pause it again.

• 2:08:16Speaker 01

  You hate when I say.

• 2:08:16Dax Shepard?

  Delivery you right back where you.

• 2:08:18Speaker 01

  The winner is this guy from Love Island, Rob R. Okay, so he's a traitor from the beginning. Rob R. is so hot.

• 2:08:29Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:08:30Speaker 01

  He is.

• 2:08:32Dax Shepard?

  Insanely hot.

• 2:08:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:08:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:35Speaker 01

  And.

• 2:08:35Dax Shepard?

  What makes him hot? I want to hear the breakdown.

• 2:08:37Speaker 01

  Well, do you want to see a pic? Rob, do you want to put up a picture of him?

• 2:08:39Dax Shepard?

  No, I want to hear what you think is hot about him.

• 2:08:41Speaker 01

  Physically, he's just so hot.

• 2:08:43Dax Shepard?

  His face is gorgeous.

• 2:08:45Speaker 01

  His face.

• 2:08:45Dax Shepard?

  How's his physique? Do you care?

• 2:08:47Speaker 01

  I think his physique is good, although.

• 2:08:51Dax Shepard?

  That's not sticking out is one of the main thing.

• 2:08:53Speaker 01

  But I think he seems, he seems tall ish from what I can tell.

• 2:08:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:58Speaker 01

  Um, got great hair.

• 2:09:00Dax Shepard?

  Oh, great.

• 2:09:00Speaker 01

  Just a beautiful face.

• 2:09:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's.

• 2:09:03Speaker 01

  And he wears kind of fun outfits, like.

• 2:09:07Dax Shepard?

  Like Ryan Hansen?

• 2:09:09Speaker 01

  No, like, like he wear, he wore like a sweater vest with nothing under it.

• 2:09:14Dax Shepard?

  That's a normally a very douchey move.

• 2:09:17Speaker 01

  I think he could be. He's on Love Island.

• 2:09:21Dax Shepard?

  Like no shirt cardigan is.

• 2:09:23Speaker 01

  I loved it.

• 2:09:24Dax Shepard?

  That's great.

• 2:09:26Speaker 01

  Well, no, it had like hearts on it. Like it was almost like when you wore the sweater that Penae gave you.

• 2:09:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, but I wasn't sure.

• 2:09:33Speaker 01

  Feminine.

• 2:09:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, okay.

• 2:09:34Speaker 01

  And, and it's like showed confidence.

• 2:09:36Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Yeah, it's just no shirt underneath. That's like generally.

• 2:09:40Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:09:41Dax Shepard?

  It can be a bit of a trigger when you.

• 2:09:42Speaker 01

  Vintage shirt once and it was kind of tight. And so he is a traitor. And at first, when I first meet him, I'm like, oh, Love Island, like this guy. And he's.

• 2:09:52Dax Shepard?

  Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very angular features, real strong chin.

• 2:09:57Speaker 01

  Yep, exactly.

• 2:09:59Dax Shepard?

  Real defined nose, not, not, not bulbous like mine. It's not, he doesn't have like a clown's horn on the end of his.

• 2:10:06Speaker 01

  That's not.

• 2:10:07Dax Shepard?

  Delta got to squeeze it in the other day and it was like, she was just got way to it. Like it became one of her fucking stuffies or. Fidgets, you know?

• 2:10:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:18Dax Shepard?

  And I just remember this trick you would do in junior high where you'd ask someone to hold the tip of their nose. I forget the premise, but you can really easily turn the whole tip of your nose purple.

• 2:10:27Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 2:10:28Dax Shepard?

  So then I had to tell her, I'm like, hon, you can squeeze any part of my face, just not the tip of my nose. I'm afraid it's gonna be a big purple bruise. And she was having a hard time.

• 2:10:38Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 2:10:39Dax Shepard?

  Resisting.

• 2:10:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:40Dax Shepard?

  Cause it's just a clown's honk, honk, honk, honk.

• 2:10:43Speaker 01

  Because you said it specifically. So then for her, of course she wants.

• 2:10:46Dax Shepard?

  She just was, just found her way to it.

• 2:10:48Speaker 01

  The tip is the most fun part to squeeze.

• 2:10:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, mine is definitely meaty, you know? You gotta, even me, I can get all five fingers. You know, they're not touching each other when I hold it. It's like the size of a racquetball.

• 2:11:00Speaker 01

  No, it's fine. It's great.

• 2:11:02Dax Shepard?

  Okay, yeah, whatever. Yeah, I'm not complaining.

• 2:11:05Speaker 01

  Okay, so Rob R. is, is, is classically attractive.

• 2:11:09Dax Shepard?

  Classically trained, yeah. In the art of forgery.

• 2:11:13Speaker 01

  Trained. Level of attraction.

• 2:11:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:11:16Speaker 01

  And.

• 2:11:17Dax Shepard?

  Everless it looks like.

• 2:11:18Speaker 01

  So for me, normally, that is not my type.

• 2:11:21Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:11:22Speaker 01

  Cause I'm, I do, I'm like, okay, like.

• 2:11:24Dax Shepard?

  You're too perfect.

• 2:11:24Speaker 01

  Pretty boy. There's no way you have a personality. Yeah. And he's from Love Island. So I'm definitely like, yeah, fuck boy.

• 2:11:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:32Speaker 01

  Okay, but then he's like nice to people and. And like soft, kind of soft spoken. And then he makes friends with people that I like, but like in a real way, like he says, like, I don't want to kick this person off.

• 2:11:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's got a heart of gold.

• 2:11:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, and he keeps, he's like pretending he, he's from Alabama and he's like kind of playing this like, I'm this dumb. Guy and he's not, because he's also playing chess the whole time. So I'm like, uh oh. And he's a traitor. He's bad, right? And this whole group of people gets so fucking played by Rob R.

• 2:12:10Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 2:12:10Speaker 01

  And it is shocking to watch. I mean, it's shocking in that it's just like.

• 2:12:15Dax Shepard?

  Charisma.

• 2:12:15Speaker 01

  It's just so obvious. Like it's so real that this hot, tall.

• 2:12:23Dax Shepard?

  Kind.

• 2:12:25Speaker 01

  Kind in quotes.

• 2:12:26Dax Shepard?

  That's right.

• 2:12:27Speaker 01

  Cause he is tricking everyone.

• 2:12:28Dax Shepard?

  This is always my issue with.

• 2:12:30Speaker 01

  Well, he's not acting like he's like.

• 2:12:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:33Speaker 01

  Although he did stick up for his, um, he stuck up for his best friend in the house who's gay.

• 2:12:39Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:12:39Speaker 01

  Um, and it was hot.

• 2:12:40Dax Shepard?

  So he's an ally, yeah.

• 2:12:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. And like.

• 2:12:44Speaker 01

  So anyway, I'm just, then I'm starting to get furious, right? Because then he.

• 2:12:48Dax Shepard?

  You felt betrayed.

• 2:12:49Speaker 01

  Well, even though I knew the whole time he was a traitor.

• 2:12:52Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you did. Okay, so you're, it's not a mystery to you, the viewer.

• 2:12:55Speaker 01

  That's what's fun about the show. You know the whole time. So you're seeing people like.

• 2:13:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:01Speaker 01

  You know, you're kind of like, no.

• 2:13:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:03Speaker 01

  And like very, very smart people. The smartest people in the house are like, it could never be Rob. Like they're saying it.

• 2:13:10Dax Shepard?

  That's happening on Million Dollar Secret, the one show I do like, but I would argue none of them are very good at like, like soon as they have the million dollars, they crumble. They could be like so convincing when they're, but it's like the amount of pressure. Once you have the million is pretty funny.

• 2:13:26Speaker 01

  Well, yeah. And then, so Rob R. turns on a fellow traitor pretty early.

• 2:13:31Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:13:32Speaker 01

  And I, that, I was like, fuck you. That's.

• 2:13:36Dax Shepard?

  You're having a real ride over there.

• 2:13:38Speaker 01

  Hated that. And then he did it again to the other traitor. And I was like, this guy.

• 2:13:45Dax Shepard?

  Right?

• 2:13:47Speaker 01

  He has a girlfriend.

• 2:13:48Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 2:13:48Speaker 01

  Anyway.

• 2:13:49Dax Shepard?

  Are you a single?

• 2:13:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:13:51Dax Shepard?

  The girl at the end with him too.

• 2:13:53Speaker 01

  Okay, so that's the main betrayal. So he has this buddy who's also from Love Island, a different season or whatever, or whatever. So they like bond and she's this like gorgeous.

• 2:14:05Speaker 01

  Girl, Mora, Moira, Mora.

• 2:14:07Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:14:08Speaker 01

  Mora, I think.

• 2:14:10Dax Shepard?

  You smell something?

• 2:14:11Speaker 01

  Cause I don't know if it's Mara or Mora.

• 2:14:13Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, that's a hard one.

• 2:14:14Speaker 01

  Mora. I think it's Mora, yes. She's Irish.

• 2:14:18Dax Shepard?

  She's in a full leather catsuit in this photo.

• 2:14:21Speaker 01

  Great fashion and style and she's very hot. And so they are best buddies in the house and, um. Poor girl, just getting laid.

• 2:14:34Dax Shepard?

  She got played.

• 2:14:35Speaker 01

  And it was so sad because she kept saying like, it's so hard for me to let my guard down. I've been cheated on so many times. My trust, I don't, it's very hard for me to trust people. She's saying this throughout and yet she refuses to see Rob as a possible traitor. At, at, towards the ends, end of the season, people are like, I think it's Rob. People are starting to say it and she's like.

• 2:14:59Dax Shepard?

  She's going down with the ship.

• 2:15:00Speaker 01

  I, it can't be. And he makes her pinky promise something and.

• 2:15:06Dax Shepard?

  Oh, no, not a pinky promise.

• 2:15:07Speaker 01

  Betrays her.

• 2:15:08Dax Shepard?

  Well, he had to, to win the game. The point is to win the game.

• 2:15:11Speaker 01

  Dax.

• 2:15:12Dax Shepard?

  Right? Isn't that the point?

• 2:15:14Speaker 01

  Say so.

• 2:15:15Dax Shepard?

  I think, I, I haven't seen it, but I'd imagine the point is to win the game.

• 2:15:18Speaker 01

  I.

• 2:15:20Dax Shepard?

  Don't enter a game like that if you're.

• 2:15:21Speaker 01

  I hated it.

• 2:15:22Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:15:23Speaker 01

  I hated it.

• 2:15:23Dax Shepard?

  Do you still like him or no?

• 2:15:26Speaker 01

  No, I'm.

• 2:15:26Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you're mad at him.

• 2:15:28Speaker 01

  Well, I just don't know what to think anymore.

• 2:15:30Dax Shepard?

  You don't trust him, but you kind of love him.

• 2:15:32Speaker 01

  I, I hated what he did to Mora.

• 2:15:34Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:15:34Speaker 01

  And she was so fragile. And then I, then I felt so bad because I was like, she has to watch this and watch herself.

• 2:15:41Dax Shepard?

  These shows probably have a little more PTSD than people might guess.

• 2:15:45Speaker 01

  So, I think so. I know, it's a great show.

• 2:15:48Dax Shepard?

  Okay, I'll check it out. But it sounds like the kids would like it?

• 2:15:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:15:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, Calvin loves it.

• 2:15:53Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great.

• 2:15:54Speaker 01

  Okay, some facts.

• 2:15:55Dax Shepard?

  Some facts.

• 2:15:56Speaker 01

  I think my favorite guest we've ever had on. I've talked about it to everyone.

• 2:16:01Dax Shepard?

  He is, dude, I did, back to the Jack Black thing. I did, I made him listen. To 20 minutes about Guillermo del Toro yesterday at the concert.

• 2:16:10Speaker 01

  Like you told him about.

• 2:16:11Dax Shepard?

  I was like, oh my God, I interviewed Guillermo del Toro and I just couldn't stop telling him fascinating things about him. He has seen his notebooks.

• 2:16:18Speaker 01

  Oh, he has?

• 2:16:19Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 2:16:20Speaker 01

  I could not.

• 2:16:21Dax Shepard?

  He has the same feeling we do. He's like, each page needs to be taken out surgically and like framed.

• 2:16:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:16:27Dax Shepard?

  And protected.

• 2:16:27Speaker 01

  But in the Smithsonian.

• 2:16:29Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes.

• 2:16:29Speaker 01

  I, I could not believe we got to see those.

• 2:16:34Dax Shepard?

  And hold it.

• 2:16:34Speaker 01

  And hold it, like hold his heart.

• 2:16:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:38Speaker 01

  That's what it felt like.

• 2:16:39Dax Shepard?

  His brain and his heart.

• 2:16:40Speaker 01

  And his heart, which are one thing, like he's so pure.

• 2:16:46Speaker 01

  And we put it on the table and your feet were up like this and I got real panicky.

• 2:16:50Dax Shepard?

  I did too. I moved it very quickly. I saw it was too close.

• 2:16:54Speaker 01

  For a second, I was like, really feeling.

• 2:16:56Dax Shepard?

  Don't be cocky, Dax. Don't overestimate your athletic prowess here.

• 2:17:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was just such a beautiful episode. He's, I couldn't, he gave us so many nuggets of wisdom.

• 2:17:07Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it's incredible. It's incredible. Like, he's a philosopher, he's an artist, he's a painter, he's a writer.

• 2:17:15Speaker 01

  I just, I love.

• 2:17:15Dax Shepard?

  One of the best directors to ever live.

• 2:17:17Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:17:18Dax Shepard?

  I can't think anyone that's ever been better than him visually. I mean, Tim Burton is, you know, he's in, he's in that same.

• 2:17:25Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 2:17:26Dax Shepard?

  But like, the visuals of fucking Frankenstein are impossible.

• 2:17:30Speaker 01

  Cause it's also like the, the visuals are unbelievable, but the, his stories are also so beautiful and moving and deep.

• 2:17:38Dax Shepard?

  I cannot wait to see it in 3D.

• 2:17:40Speaker 01

  I know, same. Same. Okay, so that was just very special. I don't think I've felt like that after we left an interview in a very long, maybe Kiki Kwan was maybe the last one.

• 2:17:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, the way I said it is Bill Gates' holistic understanding of everything on planet Earth is something that I've never observed in anyone else. Like, it's just, the totality of his knowledge is so impossible. It's like really hard to comprehend. And, and I feel this exact same way about Guillermo.

• 2:18:14Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 2:18:15Dax Shepard?

  And it's not specifically Bill's thing.

• 2:18:18Speaker 01

  Knowledge. It's like.

• 2:18:20Dax Shepard?

  Well, it's also knowledge. It means like, like his, the amount he knows about art and fucking writing.

• 2:18:25Speaker 01

  But that's not what's shining through. What's shining through is a holistic view of the universe, humanity.

• 2:18:31Dax Shepard?

  Humanity. Yeah, yes, yes. A deep, deep, intrinsic understanding of humanity.

• 2:18:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he's outrageously special. Yeah, I too. We, I think we text each other afterwards, which we haven't done in a while. It was just like, whoa, that was a, that was mind blowing.

• 2:18:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, so lucky. So lucky. We didn't sit on this for too long, which is fine, but when he said that, when he had that experience when he was a kid and he saw monsters and he, he needed to go to the bathroom and he told them, if you let me go to the bathroom, I'll be your friends forever. And he is.

• 2:19:04Dax Shepard?

  He is, he is, he is friend, a friend of the monsters.

• 2:19:08Speaker 01

  He literally is. It's so moving. I can't really handle it.

• 2:19:13Dax Shepard?

  You just picture him as a little boy and you're like, it must have been hard to have that enormous brain.

• 2:19:18Speaker 01

  I know. Well, he said so.

• 2:19:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:21Speaker 01

  Essentially.

• 2:19:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:22Speaker 01

  Reading in the encyclopedias.

• 2:19:25Dax Shepard?

  Yes, in his father's library.

• 2:19:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay, you said that Warren Buffett drove an old Cherokee?

• 2:19:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, Jeep Cherokee with wood grain on the side.

• 2:19:35Speaker 01

  I don't know why my Google doesn't know about that.

• 2:19:39Dax Shepard?

  Okay, it should. There's a, your Google should know that there's a, a profile of him on 60 Minutes in the 90s and there's many shots of him driving that old clunker.

• 2:19:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:19:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:53Speaker 01

  Cause this is saying Cadillac XTS, Cadillac DTS.

• 2:19:59Dax Shepard?

  He may in the mid 2020s or mid, I don't know how you say that, the 2010s. He might have, that Cherokee might have died, but he, he still lives in the same like 3,000 square foot brick ranch.

• 2:20:13Speaker 01

  Yes, that is well documented.

• 2:20:15Dax Shepard?

  Driving a very old Cherokee in that segment.

• 2:20:17Speaker 01

  All right, well, I don't know what to say.

• 2:20:19Dax Shepard?

  I never forget a car.

• 2:20:21Speaker 01

  I, that's true.

• 2:20:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:22Speaker 01

  That is true. That's one of your gifts.

• 2:20:24Dax Shepard?

  It's like Molly and the outfits.

• 2:20:26Speaker 01

  Molly McNerney and the outfits. That's right. Okay, I looked up, what are the most family oriented cultures?

• 2:20:33Dax Shepard?

  Hmm.

• 2:20:34Speaker 01

  Cultures that are deeply family oriented typically prioritize collective well-being, multi-generational living, and lifelong financial or social interdependence over individual autonomy. Regions and countries noted for strong family ties, South and Southeast Asia. I can, I can say that's true. Latin America.

• 2:20:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:57Speaker 01

  It's a Southern Europe, Italy, Spain, and the Middle East and North Africa.

• 2:21:03Dax Shepard?

  So really everyone but, um, northern white Europeans.

• 2:21:09Speaker 01

  No, it doesn't have China. Like, it doesn't have.

• 2:21:12Dax Shepard?

  It said Asia and some.

• 2:21:13Speaker 01

  No, South and Southeast Asia, India, the Philippines, Indonesia.

• 2:21:17Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Oh, okay, okay.

• 2:21:19Speaker 01

  Um, so yeah.

• 2:21:21Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 2:21:22Speaker 01

  Interesting. Oh, I was looking up, um, longest standing ovations at film festivals. Longest recorded standing ovation at a major film festival belongs to NASA, which directed by Yuval Abraham and Rachel Zor, which received a 25 minute ovation this year at the Venice Film Festival.

• 2:21:41Dax Shepard?

  Okay, 25. And he was 22, right?

• 2:21:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. Historically, Cannes held the longest standing benchmarks for the endurance clapping. Endurance clapping is what they call it.

• 2:21:52Dax Shepard?

  Must kill after 15 minutes of clapping.

• 2:21:54Speaker 01

  That's really funny. Led for two decades by Guillermo del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth, 22 minutes. Third is Fahrenheit 9/11, Michael Moore.

• 2:22:04Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:22:05Speaker 01

  At Cannes, 20 minutes, 2004. Sentimental Value.

• 2:22:09Dax Shepard?

  Oh, we love that movie.

• 2:22:11Speaker 01

  That movie. Cannes 2025, 19 minutes.

• 2:22:15Dax Shepard?

  Oh, how do people know when to stop?

• 2:22:19Speaker 01

  I don't know. They don't. Clearly they don't.

• 2:22:23Dax Shepard?

  Like, if you've gone 19, how, how are we going three hours?

• 2:22:26Speaker 01

  Timing so they do know, like, I want to give this one the most?

• 2:22:30Dax Shepard?

  Or like, almost the most?

• 2:22:32Speaker 01

  Do you think there's, there might be a timer?

• 2:22:35Dax Shepard?

  I can't imagine there is. I mean, someone's timing it for sure.

• 2:22:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:22:39Dax Shepard?

  But I don't think there's a big clock on display, no.

• 2:22:43Speaker 01

  Okay, well, I, I find this interesting. Unfortunately.

• 2:22:46Dax Shepard?

  What if it was like an analog dial, like a watch face, and then it had along the way different movies, uh, as the like, yeah.

• 2:22:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:22:55Dax Shepard?

  The pressure's rising.

• 2:22:56Speaker 01

  Maybe they're like, I don't want it to be longer than Pan's Labyrinth.

• 2:22:59Dax Shepard?

  That's right.

• 2:23:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:23:01Dax Shepard?

  And then right before it, someone goes, you know, Finney, whatever they, they said. Finney, Finney.

• 2:23:07Speaker 01

  I think it's just Finn.

• 2:23:09Dax Shepard?

  Finn.

• 2:23:09Speaker 01

  Finn.

• 2:23:10Dax Shepard?

  Finney.

• 2:23:11Speaker 01

  I think, I think it's just F I N.

• 2:23:13Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:23:13Speaker 01

  Fi. I think. Um, okay, I, you know, I went to Cannes, not obviously. I think just because I've talked about it a lot. I went to Cannes study abroad, 2008. Nope, me and Anthony.

• 2:23:28Dax Shepard?

  You and Kelly were in London at a premiere.

• 2:23:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, we went to the breakup. We didn't go to the premiere, we stood outside. Um, but no, I went to Cannes for study abroad and that was in 2008 and, you know, we had to beg for tickets to get inside. It was super fun. So I was looking to see if any of the ones I went to got up there, but.

• 2:23:50Dax Shepard?

  Were you a part of any standing ovations?

• 2:23:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's almost always a standing ovation.

• 2:23:54Dax Shepard?

  I couldn't go. I couldn't go. This is my issue with concerts and encores, like any kind of whatever.

• 2:24:01Speaker 01

  I love encores. Joy. You need to, okay.

• 2:24:07Dax Shepard?

  It's pageantry.

• 2:24:08Speaker 01

  It's fine. Okay.

• 2:24:11Dax Shepard?

  I mean, Guillermo deserves it, but the notion that this band, you know, they're gonna play two more songs, but you have to beg them to come out to play the two more songs is like, just play the two, just play all the songs. Okay.

• 2:24:23Speaker 01

  Okay. Now, unfortunately, I wasn't part of any of these TOPs, which is upsetting.

• 2:24:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:32Speaker 01

  Um, but I'm just double checking.

• 2:24:34Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:24:35Speaker 01

  Real quick.

• 2:24:36Dax Shepard?

  Dotting your eyes and crossing your teeth.

• 2:24:38Speaker 01

  That was, I saw Matt Damon. He was there for, uh, I think Che. Was he in Che? Yeah, he was. He was, right? Yeah, it was small.

• 2:24:50Dax Shepard?

  He played Che.

• 2:24:51Speaker 01

  Nope. Um, and I, so that was so exciting because I got in that one. So I was just sitting amongst him, high up.

• 2:24:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:00Speaker 01

  That was a long movie. It's like five hours. I saw so many movies, obviously, over the course of that.

• 2:25:05Dax Shepard?

  How many hours was Che?

• 2:25:07Speaker 01

  It was a two parter, so I think it was like five. I probably only saw one part.

• 2:25:11Dax Shepard?

  And Benicio del Toro plays Che, is that?

• 2:25:14Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:25:14Dax Shepard?

  Benicio the Bull.

• 2:25:16Speaker 01

  All of those movies really blur. Like, I don't remember anything because I was just seeing like three movies a day.

• 2:25:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's too many.

• 2:25:23Speaker 01

  It was a lot. Um, okay, well, I didn't get to experience.

• 2:25:28Dax Shepard?

  Okay, well.

• 2:25:29Speaker 01

  A 20 minute one.

• 2:25:30Dax Shepard?

  Better that you got to sit in a room with Guillermo for two hours.

• 2:25:33Speaker 01

  Much better.

• 2:25:34Dax Shepard?

  Than 22 minutes of clapping.

• 2:25:35Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 2:25:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:36Speaker 01

  I agree. Oh, when he talked about how the people stole his puppets and then put poop everywhere.

• 2:25:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:45Speaker 01

  And then you said, oh, they went ape. Now I understand ape shit. Throwing shit everywhere.

• 2:25:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, going.

• 2:25:52Speaker 01

  Tonka.

• 2:25:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:25:54Speaker 01

  I've never thought about that before.

• 2:25:56Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you haven't? Okay.

• 2:25:57Speaker 01

  You knew that?

• 2:25:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:58Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:26:02Speaker 01

  Um.

• 2:26:03Dax Shepard?

  My favorite is when they chuck it at viewers of the, um, at the zoo.

• 2:26:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:26:08Dax Shepard?

  Because a lot of people don't know about chimp behavior and when you're at the chimps of the Mahali here at the LA Zoo, you'll see one shit in his hand. And I know, time to get behind something, but other people don't.

• 2:26:20Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. I mean, I don't mind that because I'm like, this is what you get, kind of.

• 2:26:26Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, I don't mind that they do it. They should. If I was, uh.

• 2:26:30Speaker 01

  A chimp in a zoo, you'd do it.

• 2:26:31Dax Shepard?

  If I was incarcerated at a zoo, I would throw my shit every chance I got.

• 2:26:35Speaker 01

  Exactly. I agree. Um, all right, that is all.

• 2:26:40Dax Shepard?

  Okay, wonderful. What a blessing.

• 2:26:43Speaker 01

  I agree. Couldn't agree more.

• 2:26:46Dax Shepard?

  All right, love you.

• 2:26:46Speaker 01

  Love you.