Judge Judy Sheindlin

Judge Judy Sheindlin wants you to pick up after your dog. Amy hangs with the honorable judge and talks about how being herself comes easily, keeping baby Judge Judy out of AI’s hands, and knowing your worth. Host: Amy Poehler Guest: Eileen Roman and Judge Judy Sheindlin Executive Producers: Bill Simmons, Amy Poehler, and Jenna Weiss-Berman For Paper Kite Productions: Executive producer Jenna Weiss-Berman, coordinator Sam Green, and supervising producer Joel Lovell For The Ringer: Supervising producers Juliet Litman, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin; video producers Jack Wilson, Belle Roman, and Aleya Zenieris; lighting director Caroline Jannace, audio producer Kaya McMullen; video editor Drew van Steenbergen; and booker Kat Spillane Original Music: Amy Miles The 2025 Tiguan redesigns expectations. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Amy Poehler?

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• 0:33Speaker 01

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• 0:59Speaker 02

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• 2:03Amy Poehler?

  Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Good Hang. I am starstruck today. Very excited to have our guest. Judge Judy Sheindlin, who you can catch right now on Prime Video's new show, "Justice on Trial," which is a terrific new show where she takes on and breaks down a lot of famous cases. But we have Judy on today and we're gonna talk to her about a lot of things. We talked to her about the importance of family. We talked about knowing your worth. We talked about how she feels about liars. And news flash, she doesn't like them. Second news flash, she also wears a really cute hat. Judy is here. She's here in the studio and it's a real good one.

• 2:48Amy Poehler?

  So I'm really glad you're joining us. And as always, we like to start our episodes by talking to someone who knows our guest, who is a fan of our guest. And we actually have our first super fan interview today. We are talking to Eileen Roman. Eileen is the mom of Belle Roman, our video producer, who's here in the studio today. And Eileen is a huge fan of Judy and her work on "Judge Judy" and her other shows. And Eileen is gonna talk to us about why Judy is so important to so many, why so many people trust her, and why her show was the number one show for a million years. So Eileen is calling in.

• 3:32Amy Poehler?

  She's a Boston gal and she has the same name as my mom. So, Eileen, are you there?

• 3:48Speaker 04

  Thank you for having me.

• 3:49Amy Poehler?

  Oh, my God, it's so great to hear that Boston accent.

• 3:54Speaker 04

  I try to tone it down, but it's really not easy.

• 3:57Amy Poehler?

  No, I mean, we'll never get rid of it. And why should we, Eileen?

• 4:01Speaker 04

  Exactly. I'm proud of it.

• 4:03Amy Poehler?

  I think it's really great that we're talking to somebody who watches Judy Sheindlin and has watched her, sounds like as much as I have, because I think we're both super fans.

• 4:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, I am a super fan.

• 4:15Amy Poehler?

  Okay, tell me when you first encountered our guest Judy.

• 4:19Speaker 04

  I mean, in the beginning. In the beginning, there was nobody like her on TV. And she was just real. And the stories can be the same, but the outcome was never the same, you know? And I just loved her no-nonsense, straight-talking.

• 4:38Speaker 04

  Hardworking woman. You know, that's why I have so much respect for her because I know it probably wasn't an easy journey.

• 4:44Amy Poehler?

  Hmm. Now, are you, are you, were you a working mom?

• 4:48Speaker 04

  I chose to be a stay-at-home mom, but I took that job really seriously and I gave it a hundred percent. I really did. And that's my mindset because I always worked my whole life since I was 12 years old. You know, at Paperroot, working in a restaurant, everything. I worked at Brigham's, I worked at Jerry Jingle, I worked at all kinds of places.

• 5:06Amy Poehler?

  I love Brigham's.

• 5:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, Brigham's.

• 5:08Amy Poehler?

  Oh, my God, best ice cream ever. So you remind me a little bit of my mom. My mom was a teacher and then, you know, back then, if you were pregnant, you had to quit. They were like, they were like, so sorry, you, your job is over. And you were like, of course, I'm so sorry, I'm pregnant. And she had to stop. She, she stopped teaching. She raised us. She, she was at home for, you know, X amount of years and then went back to work after. And you, like a lot of women, your age, were at home with a baby and looking to figure out what to watch on daytime TV. What do you think was so great about those beginning times when you were watching Judy as Judge Judy on TV?

• 5:50Speaker 04

  I learned a lot from her. I learned like how to stand up for myself. I knew, I learned about the law, things I didn't realize. Like funny things like if you get engaged and you break off the engagement, you gotta give that ring back. You know?

• 6:06Amy Poehler?

  You gotta give it back.

• 6:08Speaker 04

  Gotta give it back. You know, and she, and, you know, I didn't know that. I mean, and that's silly, I know, but it was just things like that. And the other thing that I learned from her was, um, I don't know, to be honest. Like she just wanted people to be honest and she can, you know, any case she ever had, she just always, she could read people. I learned, I just learned so much from her. I learned like, you know, don't give someone money if you don't want it. If you, if you think you're not gonna get it back, you're not gonna get it back, there's a chance you won't. So I learned that from her too. Like, you know, she, people lending money to their friends or, you know, relatives. You know, that didn't always come back to them and she would teach them like, you gotta get it in writing. You know, it's things like that. I, I learned so much. I learned, uh,

• 6:54Speaker 04

  She just talked to like young people, like young parents a lot. You know, how to raise their children, you know, think of education. I just, you know, things like that is what I learned.

• 7:08Amy Poehler?

  I know what you mean. She kind of broke social protocol all the time and reminded us, especially us women, that we should just say it clearly and plainly.

• 7:18Speaker 04

  And don't get taken advantage of. Like she, you know, don't be smart. She always say like, be smart. Don't, you know, they didn't keep me here because I'm beautiful. Like, oh, I know all this stuff, you know?

• 7:28Amy Poehler?

  Okay, me too, me too. Like, you know, beauty fades but dumbs forever is a great Judy.

• 7:34Speaker 04

  If you eat the steak, you gotta buy it. You know, like, things like that, right?

• 7:38Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, and you're right. You're tapping into something that is deeper. There's something about watching her that felt calming.

• 7:47Speaker 04

  She has a rough exterior, but I really think deep down, she's really soft. And I think that showed at the end of the cases. A lot of times she would say something really kind, or like, be careful, or take care of yourself, or don't get taken advantage. You know, and sometimes there were women there that were taken advantage of, and she would just, you know, tell them to be bright and smart, and you have your whole life ahead of you. That's how I judged her. I just, I just thought she was just wonderful.

• 8:17Amy Poehler?

  Okay, so I have the pleasure of having Judy in the studio today. And, and by the way, and have the pleasure of working with your wonderful daughter.

• 8:27Speaker 04

  Thank you. I'm so thrilled. I'm, she's, I'm so proud of my daughter. This is a dream come true for her.

• 8:32Amy Poehler?

  Let's talk about how great she is for a second. She's covering her face right now. But what, what, tell, tell us about why Belle is so great.

• 8:41Speaker 04

  Well, Belle, she's hardworking. She's kind. She has empathy for people. And she's really enthusiastic about what she does. She loves what she does. And I'm, it's so great to see your daughters achieve a dream that they've always wanted. And she did it on her own. And I'm really proud of her for that. And I think my husband and I instilled a really great work ethic in them. And I really believe that. And I think that helped her journey to where she is right now.

• 9:16Amy Poehler?

  Oh, that's so nice. I want you to know she's crying in the studio right now.

• 9:21Speaker 04

  I'm so proud of her, Amy. You have no idea. And to have her work with you is just amazing. And I'm really impressed with you. You're also one of my heroes because I see, you don't see, I love to see women in places where they guide and help other women through their work or their personal life. And I feel like that's what you do. So I'm really.

• 9:42Amy Poehler?

  Thank you very much, Eileen. I really appreciate that. Okay, so we're gonna ask Judy a question and we're gonna, and I need some help and some thoughts. What do you want me to ask her today?

• 9:54Speaker 04

  Well, I think one of the things, reasons why I love Judge Judy so much is that she can really read people. She can really tell if you're telling the truth, if they're hiding a secret.

• 10:08Speaker 04

  I really feel like she can read people. And, and I want to know, did she always have that instinct in her? Is that, or is that something that developed like as time went on and she became, you know, she had more cases in front of her? But I really think that is her most, one of her most important attributes is that she can read people. You know, she can tell what, she can read people. Yeah, she can't fool, you can't fool Judge Judy.

• 10:37Amy Poehler?

  Believe me, I know I'm worried because, I mean, we're about to do it. I mean, what if she just in the middle of it goes like, I don't believe you?

• 10:46Speaker 04

  No, no, no, no, no. I don't, no, no, no. She knows, she knows, she knows everything.

• 10:50Amy Poehler?

  Faber, it's gonna be hard for me to not do a Judge Judy impersonation to Judy Shinlin, who by the way, it's gonna be hard not to call Judy Judge Judy.

• 10:59Speaker 04

  You kind of look like her today with your black robe on, you know?

• 11:02Amy Poehler?

  Thank you for saying that. Subconsciously, I try sometimes to think about some, you know, slight subconscious ways as a nod to my guest. And I was like, I'm gonna wear this.

• 11:14Speaker 04

  You did it. It's gonna be an honor to have speak with her.

• 11:18Amy Poehler?

  It is an honor.

• 11:20Speaker 04

  It's an honor.

• 11:21Amy Poehler?

  All right. Thank you so much, Eileen.

• 11:23Speaker 04

  Thank you so much, Amy. I really appreciate it and have a great day. And I can't wait to hear this episode. I'm so excited.

• 11:29Amy Poehler?

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• 12:03Amy Poehler?

  I love your style. Like, I don't think people get to see you in your actual clothes. You know, people only see you in your, when you're working.

• 12:14Speaker 05

  That's helpful. So you can walk around almost anonymously until you speak.

• 12:19Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 12:19Speaker 05

  It's interesting, speaking. By the way, have you seen, are we on now?

• 12:24Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, we're on.

• 12:24Speaker 05

  We are?

• 12:25Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 12:25Speaker 05

  Have you seen those baby Judge Judy?

• 12:30Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, the AI, like, I'm obsessed.

• 12:32Speaker 05

  Is that frightening? That is so frightening.

• 12:37Amy Poehler?

  You know, you are all over TikTok in a way. I mean, everywhere. But your, your sound, your, your clips, your audio clips are everywhere online.

• 12:48Speaker 05

  But is that fair?

• 12:53Amy Poehler?

  Good question.

• 12:53Speaker 05

  No, it's a good question. Is it fair? Because they can really have you say anything. They can have you comment about anything. I mean, I've seen some very reputable journalists talking about penile dysfunction. And they get, they were clearly all AI-generated.

• 13:11Amy Poehler?

  But I would say the young people are very aware of AI. They are very sharp to see it and sense it. Like, they know what is AI and what isn't. Like, their eye is now trained.

• 13:22Speaker 05

  But, you know, you still have an older population. We have to be considered.

• 13:27Amy Poehler?

  Well, I know. They're gonna get, they're gonna get the older population. That's what they're gonna, who they're gonna trick.

• 13:31Speaker 05

  You, they're gonna get the older population.

• 13:34Amy Poehler?

  So you're right. So we are doomed. So Judge Judy is here.

• 13:40Speaker 05

  No, clearly not.

• 13:42Amy Poehler?

  Judy Sheindlin is here. We are so happy to have you here today. And you're right, what I love about you is exactly these kind of conversations, which is deep end conversations right away. Complex, deep end conversations. You have them in life. I'm lucky enough to have had a few with you already as your new friend and also in your work. And what I always appreciate about you is you are not afraid to discuss complicated things and also to admit things are complicated.

• 14:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, you have to worry about it a little more when you get old because you get opinionated. If you've noticed that about old people, they get very

• 14:25Amy Poehler?

  I know.

• 14:26Speaker 05

  opinionated. You know, you like to think as you age, you get to know people and sort of develop a tolerance, which I did for a period of time. That's over. That period of my life is over. I am so intolerant of anything that interferes with my everyday happiness.

• 14:47Amy Poehler?

  Okay.

• 14:47Speaker 05

  And I said, what am I going to discuss with Amy today?

• 14:52Amy Poehler?

  Look at Judy already taking over this interview.

• 14:54Speaker 05

  So let's talk about fetching.

• 14:56Amy Poehler?

  Okay, good. Let's talk about it.

• 14:58Speaker 05

  I love, you know, fetching is a great thing.

• 15:01Amy Poehler?

  Fantastic word, too. Great Yiddish word.

• 15:02Speaker 05

  Yes. You know, you live part in the city, part in the country. You're a country mouse and a city mouse. But in the city and even in the country, you're supposed to pick up after your dog.

• 15:14Amy Poehler?

  Don't even get me started.

• 15:17Speaker 05

  And it's, it's, I mean, I actually walk my dog and I watch people and I can sort of tell when they're pretending to look for a bag.

• 15:29Amy Poehler?

  Oh, I had one, but I forgot.

• 15:31Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 15:31Amy Poehler?

  I have a dog outside in the world, but I don't have a bag with me.

• 15:34Speaker 05

  Right. So I said, what should be the punishment for somebody who doesn't pick up after their dog?

• 15:42Amy Poehler?

  That's a great question.

• 15:44Speaker 05

  And I came up with, you know, death is probably a little too exaggerated.

• 15:53Speaker 05

  But let's take this example. Let's say you've been dating your fiance, your boyfriend, since high school. And you save up enough money to have a lovely wedding and do a photography piece in Central Park with your gown.

• 16:12Amy Poehler?

  Oh, dear.

• 16:14Speaker 05

  And the photographer is there, and you're in your gown that you've saved for, for five years.

• 16:19Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 16:21Speaker 05

  And you sit down on the grass because you're going to take this wonderful photograph with your gown spread out, and somebody hasn't picked up after their dog.

• 16:34Speaker 05

  Now, is the punishment the same? I mean, the crime is the same.

• 16:39Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 16:39Speaker 05

  But the effect on the victim is totally different. If you're a...

• 16:47Amy Poehler?

  Your honor, if I may?

• 16:48Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 16:51Amy Poehler?

  I think you are, if you're in a Central Park, public... If you're in a public place, anywhere in New York, you can't sit down. The minute you sit down, you've given up all rights.

• 17:03Speaker 05

  Well, so, you think that there is joint culpability?

• 17:09Amy Poehler?

  That's how to say it.

• 17:10Speaker 05

  Maybe. Maybe.

• 17:12Amy Poehler?

  Because, and, and why, why I like this thought experiment is you are a responsible dog owner. So, you care about your... I know you love your doggies. And I think that it speaks to the deeper thing that you talk about all the time, which is what are the consequences of actions? I love what you say, which is there are reasons for behavior, but not excuses for behavior.

• 17:38Speaker 05

  That's true.

• 17:39Amy Poehler?

  And behavior, there's many reasons to behave a certain way, and that behavior has consequences. And I think it speaks to the larger thing of like, where are all the consequences anymore? There's no consequences for anything anymore. And this is what older people say and feel, but it feels that way right now in the world.

• 18:00Speaker 05

  Yes, and that has, that has serious implications. That has serious political implications. And it has serious economic implications. I'll tell you a cute story about consequences. I don't think I've told you this story before. I had a case, one of my, you know, little cases on television. And it was a cart, a shopping cart from the Piggly Wiggly in Florida. I don't know, you know, somebody took their groceries, they filled their trunk with their groceries, and they left the cart. Gust of wind comes along and the cart goes into the next car and dents the car.

• 18:40Amy Poehler?

  Okay.

• 18:41Speaker 05

  The owner of the car sees this scenario unfolding and sues the person who left the cart.

• 18:51Amy Poehler?

  Ooh.

• 18:52Speaker 05

  Interesting. The defense was, it was an act of God. I didn't create the wind. I put the cart down, the cart was stable, a gust of wind came, blew the cart. Anyway, I found for the person whose car was damaged. My reasoning was, but for your negligence in not taking that extra moment to put the car, cart, in the assigned position for carts, you know, where they are.

• 19:21Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 19:23Speaker 05

  The wind would not have been able to pick up and hit and damage the car. Okay. So now we're fast forwarding about two or three months. I'm in Florida, where I live in the wintertime, and shopping at Publix.

• 19:38Amy Poehler?

  Fantastic, I'd love to see that.

• 19:41Speaker 05

  And it's a big parking lot. I load my car up with the groceries that I've gotten. And I notice that I parked pretty far away from the appointed cart patrol.

• 19:57Speaker 05

  And I looked around, and there were three women standing in front of the store, looking at me.

• 20:04Amy Poehler?

  Waiting for you to return the cart.

• 20:06Speaker 05

  Waiting for me, having seen that episode, waiting to see what I was going to do. So of course, I said, I took the cart and I put it back where you're supposed to.

• 20:17Amy Poehler?

  I assumed you would have returned the cart no matter what.

• 20:19Speaker 05

  I probably would have, but it was the reaction of the women. They said, all right, let's see if this gal.

• 20:26Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 20:27Speaker 05

  Follows what she preaches.

• 20:28Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 20:29Speaker 05

  Follows what she preaches. And it's a simple thing. And now I never go shopping unless I park my car right next to the place where you deposit your cards.

• 20:39Amy Poehler?

  But you get that, you must get that a lot, where people are turning to you to see if you're going to.

• 20:46Speaker 05

  Follow the rules.

• 20:47Amy Poehler?

  Yes, yes. Because your, your life is, and, and, and we, people know you as a person who talks about the importance of these rules. And then as a person in everyday life, like we are human beings, we try as best we can to follow the rules. Do you get that a lot? Do you get people projecting that on you?

• 21:06Speaker 05

  I don't know whether I do or not, but, and I know this is going to sound a little hokey to you. Life has been very good to me. And I like to do the right thing. If you do the right thing, most of the time, or all of the time, it doesn't guarantee that at the end of the day, all good things will happen to you. But it's been my experience that if you don't do the right thing, eventually, not immediately, but eventually, that's going to come back.

• 21:42Amy Poehler?

  There's so many things I want to get into because I'm curious as to where, you know, your, this, this strong feeling about there being a, a system to follow and the importance of law and order, and also how you found yourself like motivating yourself and your own path in life, started very young, I assume, in your own family. What was New York in the 50s like in Brooklyn? And what was the, what was the feeling in your family with your siblings and your parents about what was the way to operate?

• 22:18Speaker 05

  Always the right thing. My father was a dentist. My mother ran his dental office. His dental office was in the house. So we were all very close. And there was never a question of trying to get over on the system.

• 22:35Speaker 05

  It was always. You work. You earn a living. You take care of your family. You save up. You go to Grow Singers for a weekend, or the Concord.

• 22:49Amy Poehler?

  Wait, what was Grow Singers?

• 22:50Speaker 05

  Grow Singers was a resort, like the Concord Hotel.

• 22:54Amy Poehler?

  Like Dirty Dancing?

• 22:57Speaker 05

  Exactly, but bigger.

• 22:59Amy Poehler?

  Okay.

• 22:59Speaker 05

  But bigger. And that's where Jewish people went for the weekend. There was...

• 23:08Speaker 05

  Everybody was gluttonous. There was much too much food. But, and you know, you took dancing lessons. Like it didn't... I hope that the people who watch your podcast know what Dirty Dancing is.

• 23:20Amy Poehler?

  I hope they do too. I think they do. I think Dirty Dancing is still...

• 23:24Speaker 05

  It's still out there.

• 23:25Amy Poehler?

  What were you like as a young... What was young Judy like? Like, what was your...

• 23:30Speaker 05

  I followed... I pretty much followed the rules. And when, the couple of times that I didn't, and I incurred the disappointment wrath of my father, who never hit me.

• 23:43Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 23:43Speaker 05

  But I never wanted to disappoint him. I said, "You know what? It wasn't worth it. Marvin wasn't worth it."

• 23:55Amy Poehler?

  Sneaking away with Marvin.

• 23:56Speaker 05

  Sneaking away with Marvin wasn't worth it.

• 24:01Amy Poehler?

  It never is.

• 24:01Speaker 05

  No.

• 24:03Amy Poehler?

  But you've spoken about your relationship with your dad. It was a very important one for you. Do you think it gave you confidence?

• 24:09Speaker 05

  Of course. I do think that women find their confidence from their fathers.

• 24:20Speaker 05

  They find loving, etc., from their mothers, I think. I know some women who would argue with that. But the women I know who feel terrific about themselves had wonderful, encouraging relationships with their dads.

• 24:35Amy Poehler?

  And you did.

• 24:36Speaker 05

  And I did.

• 24:37Amy Poehler?

  And how did he... And he used to encourage you. And what did it look like?

• 24:41Speaker 05

  What did it look like? What did it look like? If I had a pimple on my forehead, he said, "Oh, my God, that is so gorgeous. Everyone should have one. Not quite as big as yours, but everyone should have one." And he recognized my limitations, I think, my intellectual limitations. I'm not an academic.

• 25:02Speaker 05

  And believe it or not, Amy, I'm not intellectually curious.

• 25:06Amy Poehler?

  Interesting.

• 25:07Speaker 05

  I'm not.

• 25:10Speaker 05

  If something is, it is. I don't have to know why it is. I know it just is. It makes my life much less complicated. And, and he understood that.

• 25:22Amy Poehler?

  Was he like that?

• 25:24Speaker 05

  No, he was more of an academic and he filled people's teeth, but he wrote poetry and he carved things in wood and soap. He loved the ballet and the theater.

• 25:37Speaker 05

  He, he was more of a Renaissance person.

• 25:42Speaker 05

  Not me. I, I'm a meat and potatoes girl.

• 25:45Amy Poehler?

  But you're so good at, at figuring out.

• 25:47Speaker 05

  People.

• 25:48Amy Poehler?

  So where did you get your people skills?

• 25:50Speaker 05

  That I don't know. That I don't know. That I think is probably, is probably genetic, just like music, play, like Mozart, Mozart or Rembrandt. I think you have a particular skill. I think everybody has a particular skill.

• 26:07Amy Poehler?

  Just getting back to little, or, or younger Judy, you decide, okay, I have this part of me that likes, that kind of sees the world this way. I want to be, I want to go to law school. What year did you graduate law school?

• 26:22Speaker 05

  I graduated, I think in 1964 from law school.

• 26:27Speaker 05

  I did college in, I don't know, five and a half years, went summers and got out of law school. And then I had a job that I hated.

• 26:36Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, corporate lawyer?

• 26:37Speaker 05

  I was, I worked for L'Oréal of Paris. They were hiring two lawyers, a man and a woman. And the man, they put in corporate, the corporate effect. And me, they gave a sheet of drug products that were their L'Oréal products, suffrage and all different kinds of hair tints. And they gave me the job of calling the drugstores and getting orders from them. He was doing law work.

• 27:08Amy Poehler?

  Wow.

• 27:08Speaker 05

  And I was doing.

• 27:09Amy Poehler?

  You were doing sales, basically.

• 27:10Speaker 05

  And I was doing sales secretarial work.

• 27:12Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 27:13Speaker 05

  So I did what you did then. You got pregnant. That was the only way.

• 27:18Amy Poehler?

  To get out of your job.

• 27:20Speaker 05

  And then I was home for a while with my kids for a bit. And I started watching soap operas.

• 27:28Amy Poehler?

  Oh, which ones?

• 27:28Speaker 05

  Now, I don't remember, but I said, "Life has to be more than this for me."

• 27:39Speaker 05

  So I was fortunate to go to an event from a lawyer's event and I met the law student, who was a law, a man who was a law student with me, and he said, "I'm looking for somebody in the family court. I work at Corporation Council in the family court. You interested in the job?" And I remember going home and telling my family. I said, "Mommy's going to work and who's going to take care of us?" And I said, "A very nice lady." And they said, "Who is it?" I said, "I don't know." Yet. But she'll be a very nice lady. You're going to be very happy.

• 28:13Amy Poehler?

  But you know, I love that story because, I mean, I think on behalf of working women everywhere and women that work in the home, which is also its own job, that you always were an example of a woman who got great self-esteem from their work and who we got to see work in real time. I mean, that is what watching you feels like. It feels like a very successful woman at work.

• 28:43Speaker 05

  You can, I mean, you have two boys. You love them. They love you. And we have this host of a family now.

• 28:51Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, you have a blended family.

• 28:52Speaker 05

  We have a blended family and my second great-grandchild, who's cute as a bug's ear,

• 29:02Speaker 05

  would, I'm sure some would have preferred that I be home to make them a hot lunch and send it off to school like everybody else's parent moms did in those years.

• 29:13Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, you were very unique in that way.

• 29:15Speaker 05

  You know, there weren't a lot of full-time working moms. But I can tell you now, they are reaping the benefit of my being a full-time working person.

• 29:26Amy Poehler?

  Yeah. And what, how did you deal with being one of a few during that time? Like where did you, where did you, did you, did you struggle at all with feeling?

• 29:34Speaker 05

  No, I didn't struggle at all.

• 29:36Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 29:36Speaker 05

  I just felt as if it was right for me and...

• 29:42Speaker 05

  You know, I think that if you're happy at home, being a full-time homemaker and parent, and they're needed, you know, you need somebody to take kids on field trips and to be there for the bake sale and be a really active part of the PTA. That's what makes things go around. If that's satisfying for you, that's great. But I always believe that a woman has to have a way of earning a living.

• 30:13Amy Poehler?

  Mm-hmm. Why?

• 30:15Speaker 05

  Because if a woman, different from a man, if a woman doesn't have a way of supporting herself, she is in a position of being controlled. That doesn't happen all the time.

• 30:31Speaker 05

  And it doesn't always happen in a fashion that's aggressive.

• 30:36Amy Poehler?

  Right.

• 30:37Speaker 05

  But that's a mentality.

• 30:41Speaker 05

  And so, in the back of your mind, you should always have a way of saying, "I don't like this. This is not making me happy. This is not making me fulfilled. I would like to change, but I can't because I have no, I don't have a plan. I don't have an exit plan." And

• 31:07Speaker 05

  that's very sad for a woman. A man always has an exit plan. I mean, he could live out of, most men can live out of a shoe. A woman, you know, they really can.

• 31:19Amy Poehler?

  But I, but I think, but you were, you were ahead of your time in that thinking. That was, you were, I mean, you were, you were unique in that way because you were coming up during a time when that wasn't always the way women, certainly weren't encouraged to be that way, but also couldn't find it in themselves.

• 31:33Speaker 05

  No, they were supposed to be nurses or teachers.

• 31:35Amy Poehler?

  Yes.

• 31:36Speaker 05

  My first husband thought that that was the only thing women did. They were nurses or teachers.

• 31:40Amy Poehler?

  My mom talks about that, that her father sat her down and said, "Do you want to be a nurse or a teacher?" Yeah, and he was, he's a love, he was a lovely man.

• 31:47Speaker 05

  And he loved her?

• 31:48Amy Poehler?

  And loved her very, very much, and believed her to be smart and all of those things, but just assumed like, which one? That's your, that's, that's your choice.

• 31:57Speaker 05

  Right.

• 31:58Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, and so what, so did you get any pushback at the time from other people? Like, were you, did you feel supported when you were making these kind of choices in your life? Like with?

• 32:09Speaker 05

  I felt always supported.

• 32:10Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 32:11Speaker 05

  I felt always supported.

• 32:12Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, yeah. And then you find yourself in family court, and that is kind of, and, and you've spoken about this, but it's so interesting, like, I love what, how you speak about this, which is basically, your life keeps unfolding, and, and you, we don't get to know you, Judy, until you're in your 50s, for, late 40s, maybe?

• 32:31Speaker 05

  I started my program when I was 52.

• 32:33Amy Poehler?

  Yeah. And you speak ve- very often and really eloquently about the idea that you kind of never know what is around the corner, and you never know like, how your life is gonna unfold. And you just take this dramatic turn in your life, from being in family court to being on TV. When you were first on TV, did you have to kind of learn how to be yourself, quote unquote, on TV?

• 32:57Speaker 05

  It was easy. No, it was easy.

• 33:03Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 33:05Speaker 05

  Because I didn't have to make up a person. That's

• 33:08Amy Poehler?

  Right.

• 33:09Speaker 05

  The person.

• 33:10Amy Poehler?

  Right.

• 33:10Speaker 05

  And if that's the person that they said, "We want this person on TV", why would I want to modify that or change it?

• 33:18Amy Poehler?

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:19Speaker 05

  And so it was easy for me.

• 33:20Amy Poehler?

  But being yourself isn't always, I mean, it's easy for you, but it isn't always easy for people.

• 33:25Speaker 05

  Well, that's unfortunate for them, it was very easy for me.

• 33:30Speaker 05

  And, and you know, the public can tell, Amy.

• 33:33Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 33:33Speaker 05

  Public can tell when you're a phony.

• 33:37Speaker 05

  Public can tell, uh, whether you believe what you're talking about. You know, I often say, and you know, I say, "If you tell the truth, you don't have to have a good memory." I stole that from somebody, but whoever I stole it from is dead, so.

• 33:52Amy Poehler?

  And we don't remember.

• 33:53Speaker 05

  It's now become mine. So I find, if you tell the truth, it makes your life so much easier.

• 34:02Amy Poehler?

  Yeah. How can you tell when someone's lying?

• 34:05Speaker 05

  Well, if it, first of all, if it doesn't make sense, it's usually not true.

• 34:11Speaker 05

  If the story doesn't make sense to you, when you're a relatively normal human being, it's usually not true.

• 34:17Amy Poehler?

  But what I love so much about watching you work is, in your show and shows, you have a, you know, you're not, you can have a tolerance for people's unfortunate choices and mistakes and learning moments, but you have such a low tolerance for being lied to. Like, it's like, if someone lies to you, they're done.

• 34:44Speaker 05

  Well, you can only lie to me once, and then everything else you say becomes suspect.

• 34:48Amy Poehler?

  Exactly.

• 34:49Speaker 05

  Right? Did you have insurance on the car? Yes. Can I see the card? The dog ate it. My phone fell in the toilet.

• 34:59Amy Poehler?

  And I've seen you do something which I find very satisfying to watch and calming to watch, is where you'll give them another chance. In that moment, I see sometimes you say, "I'm gonna ask you again." Like, you just say, "Maybe you just lied out of quick, you know, sometimes reflex. People are just so stressed."

• 35:19Speaker 05

  You're being kind. You're a much kinder person than I am, actually. You are. I know you are.

• 35:25Amy Poehler?

  But you know what? But the reason why I say it, Judy, is because I don't like to be stressed when I watch shows. I don't like to watch people argue, and I don't like to watch people be made fun of. Like, it's not my thing. And I loved watching your shows. So I didn't feel like you were there to humiliate or to let people humiliate each other. There was like a controlled environment that you were in charge of, and you were paying attention, and there were times where I felt like there were gestures of grace where you would say, "I'm gonna let you answer that again."

• 36:02Speaker 05

  One more time. That's nice of you. I'm glad. I'm glad you're a fan.

• 36:06Amy Poehler?

  Do you disagree?

• 36:07Speaker 05

  I know. Do I disagree? No. I think that sometimes people do, their initial gut reaction is to be self-protective.

• 36:17Amy Poehler?

  Yes. People lie because they're nervous.

• 36:20Speaker 05

  They're protecting a position.

• 36:21Amy Poehler?

  Yes.

• 36:22Speaker 05

  And then, you know, if I catch you by the eye, I'm gonna say, "You know what?" You have parents.

• 36:32Speaker 05

  You think the parents want to hear that? They're gonna watch and they're gonna tell their friends to watch this episode.

• 36:38Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 36:39Speaker 05

  They go, "You're having friends who will watch it." You sure you want to go there?

• 36:45Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 36:45Speaker 05

  Because I'm good, I have the capacity, or at least I have the capacity to make you look like an idiot. You want me to do that? It's, it'll be my pleasure. I'm good at it. That's what they pay me for. I would much rather you tell me the truth.

• 36:59Amy Poehler?

  Yes.

• 36:59Speaker 05

  But if you don't.

• 37:01Amy Poehler?

  Yes.

• 37:02Speaker 05

  I can, I can handle it.

• 37:03Amy Poehler?

  You can handle it. I mean, you can handle it. I mean, it is, I mean, I imagine being somebody in your life who is try, like, do you find that?

• 37:15Amy Poehler?

  What, what part of you in your personal life is softer than what we see on TV?

• 37:21Speaker 05

  Everything.

• 37:22Amy Poehler?

  So what part of you is the softy part that people don't, you know, that people don't get to see? Because.

• 37:28Speaker 05

  With my dog.

• 37:33Speaker 05

  When my dog snuzzles up next to me. If I'm not feeling well, and you know, they can sense that. She usually sleeps on the foot of the bed. If she knows that I'm not feeling well, she comes over and checks on me at night. And I love to smell her.

• 37:52Speaker 05

  She smells so delicious. And.

• 37:56Speaker 05

  Nothing but giving, you know? I mean, if you're an animal lover, then you know.

• 38:00Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 38:00Speaker 05

  That it's pure, pure love.

• 38:03Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 38:04Speaker 05

  That they have for you. That they're a good dog.

• 38:07Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 38:09Speaker 05

  So I'm soft with her.

• 38:11Amy Poehler?

  I find you to be very warm.

• 38:13Speaker 05

  I like to think so.

• 38:14Amy Poehler?

  So would, what would people describe as the warm parts of you that people don't get to see?

• 38:20Speaker 05

  Sometimes you meet a person who has sort of a kindred spirit.

• 38:26Speaker 05

  As you get, as you age, you sort of peel that back and you sort of eliminate people from your life. But every once in a while, you meet somebody new. And that's what happened when we met. I, you know, we don't see each other all the time, but I know we have a fondness for each other.

• 38:46Amy Poehler?

  Yes.

• 38:46Speaker 05

  And that's a nice, and that's a lovely thing. It's something that becomes more lovely when you're older because, you know, you used to have lots of people to meet. And I came downtown today from Greenwich, Connecticut, where I live.

• 39:01Amy Poehler?

  You don't do a lot of these, Judy. I really appreciate it.

• 39:04Speaker 05

  I only did one, and that's this one. So, and don't call.

• 39:09Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, nobody else. Judy's not on some tour right now. Don't think she's gonna do a bunch of these. She's not coming out.

• 39:16Speaker 05

  I just came, I really just came to see you for an hour.

• 39:22Amy Poehler?

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• 40:05Amy Poehler?

  bit more mindful of the things you buy for you and your family? You know, reading the labels, checking the ingredients, trying to understand what all those letters, numbers, and long words mean? I get it. Sometimes we don't really know what's in the things we buy, and we want to feel good about our choices. So when it comes to laundry detergent, choose All Free Clear. 100% free from dyes and perfumes, All Free Clear detergent uses only essential ingredients that tackle tough stains and odors. And it's gentle on skin. It's a powerful clean you can feel good about. So go on, pick up a bottle of All Free Clear for your next laundry day. This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance.

• 40:48Amy Poehler?

  Not checking which group chat you're typing in before hitting send? Next thing you know, you sent a scalding hot take about the restaurant to the group with the person who picked it. Yikes. Yeah, checking first is a good idea, so check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary, subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company and Affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. This episode is brought to you by AutoTrader. If car shopping feels like a whole thing, buying your car online on AutoTrader makes it way easier, really. Shop tons of cars online, compare prices, check financing, and trade-in options from wherever you are.

• 41:30Amy Poehler?

  Start online, test drive at the dealer, and finish wherever works for you. Your info stays with you, so there's no starting over. Plus, you're working with local dealers with real people there to help. Buy your car online on AutoTrader, really.

• 41:49Amy Poehler?

  Okay, let's talk about us meeting because I feel like I kind of manifested it in my own way and kind of forced us to be friends, so thank you for going along with it. But it's true, I mean, I remember meeting for the very first time. We were on a talk show together. I think it was Kelly Ripa and whoever was hosting with her at the time, I don't remember. And then I brought in my book, I loved your books, I asked you to sign them, we had a quick talk. I thought, that's it, I won't bother Judy anymore with that. Then I heard that you were going to be given the, like, a lifetime achievement award for the Daytime Emmys. I called up your people and said, can I give it to Judy if she doesn't have someone giving it to her yet?

• 42:33Amy Poehler?

  And you very nicely said, yes. It was my pleasure to write that speech, it was the easiest thing I had written, so... Then I got to give you the speech. We got to hang out. I had a very exciting moment where you handed me something on stage. Judy came up and gave me something in the palm of her hand and I was like, and it was this, you gave me this necklace, which I wear all the time. It's a very good luck charm for me. And then we started to create a friendship together. We started to like, let's have lunch and let's actually try to be friends. And what I love about it, number one, is that I felt like it was, I mean, I am the most, you were by far my most, I've been the most nervous and most starstruck to interview you of everyone that I've interviewed.

• 43:16Amy Poehler?

  You are by far the most famous person that I've had in my mind on the show. And when you said yes, I was, we jumped for joy. Because I know you don't do things you don't want to do. Let's just put it that way.

• 43:29Speaker 05

  Not anymore.

• 43:30Amy Poehler?

  I don't know if you ever have, Judy. I don't know if you've ever really.

• 43:33Speaker 05

  Well, have you ever done a satellite media tour?

• 43:40Amy Poehler?

  Okay, you're right. You're right, you've had to do a few things. Yeah, but you just, it's what calms me about you is I know you're not, you're going to have no problem saying no to things you don't want to do. And so it really meant a lot that you came. And it means a lot that you're, and it also, you represent what I think is like your ethos, which is it's kind of like never too late to figure out what you want to do. And it's never too late to make new friends. How are friendships important to you? How do they sustain you?

• 44:10Speaker 05

  They add

• 44:13Speaker 05

  a texture. You know, we have a big family. And I could be busy with the big family all the time.

• 44:25Speaker 05

  And they're all, they're different. Kids and their mates and grandchildren, they have different. But bringing in a new friend into your life, especially someone younger.

• 44:41Speaker 05

  Is a whole new perspective. Gives you a different texture for things. But for coming in to do this today, I can't even tell you where I would be or what I would be doing. But this was very good for me. I didn't know it when I said, you know, I had heard you say someplace that you would like to have me as a guest. And I was so touched by the fact that you took time and actually made a call to present me with something that is very, very sweet moment for me with the Emmys. I said, this is a person who's really a mensch. And she's not a phony.

• 45:27Speaker 05

  When some people tell me about, you know, I watched your show, I grew up with you, I sat with my grandma. Could you please sign a picture? I want to put it in her casket because she loved you.

• 45:38Speaker 05

  All true. I just got one from Germany, a letter from Germany, that this man's best friend passed away.

• 45:49Speaker 05

  And he was cremated and he wants to be able to put a note from me with his friend's ashes. Could I please say something personal to Fred?

• 46:00Amy Poehler?

  Fred's not gonna know if you write that or not. You can get somebody else to write that.

• 46:05Speaker 05

  But I knew that

• 46:08Speaker 05

  you had a different kind of understanding of watching

• 46:14Speaker 05

  the courtroom and watching me in the courtroom. So I knew you got it. And you're so terribly talented and it's just such a shame your plate is so full. Because otherwise, there are so many things that we could do together.

• 46:27Amy Poehler?

  Well, I still want to work together, Judy. It would be fantastic to work together with you. I mean, we're both used to being running the show, right? We both are like, we are like, we like to be...

• 46:37Speaker 05

  No, you're a writer. You're the writer. You see, I don't have that talent.

• 46:42Amy Poehler?

  Well, I would argue that you do have that talent. You're doing it in...

• 46:46Speaker 05

  I don't know. I don't.

• 46:49Amy Poehler?

  Let me hold on. Because you're writing in real time on that show. You are, you, that is, you are, that is, you do not have lines on that show.

• 46:59Speaker 05

  No. But...

• 47:02Amy Poehler?

  And you've written how many books? You're a writer. When are you gonna call yourself a writer?

• 47:08Speaker 05

  There's a creativity that you have that you have to know your limitations that I don't have. So if I were to say to you, Amy, what I want to do for my next adventure, that I would like you to play with me at doing, I want to steal Baby Judge Judy back from AI.

• 47:32Amy Poehler?

  We're all now, now I know why we started talking about it in the beginning. Now I get it. I get it now.

• 47:38Speaker 05

  And I want to take.

• 47:39Amy Poehler?

  We need to sue AI.

• 47:40Speaker 05

  Baby, I want to take Baby Judge Judy. And I haven't shut him down. I haven't even, I said, I want to get more people involved with this character. And then I want to take this character.

• 47:57Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 47:58Speaker 05

  And create a South Park-y.

• 48:04Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 48:05Speaker 05

  So that I can Judy Kretsch through the baby. Speaking through Baby Judge Judy would be a whole lot of fun.

• 48:14Amy Poehler?

  It would be a lot of fun.

• 48:15Speaker 05

  But you need the right writer.

• 48:18Amy Poehler?

  That's right.

• 48:19Speaker 05

  So, and I know.

• 48:20Amy Poehler?

  Judy's still pitching me on this.

• 48:22Speaker 05

  I'm still pitching her.

• 48:23Amy Poehler?

  I love it. I love it.

• 48:24Speaker 05

  I'm still pitching her.

• 48:26Amy Poehler?

  I love it. Because first of all, I'm very flattered. And two, what you, what, what I think I hear you saying is that, and what I love about all the stuff that you do is you keep trying to figure out like, in what way, what is my next adventure? I mean, you're always looking for that. You're always looking for like.

• 48:45Speaker 05

  And you have to take your next adventure with your station in life. Now, my next adventure is not being a centfold. I know that.

• 48:55Amy Poehler?

  Okay, but this is perfect. Let's talk about your bod. Judy?

• 49:00Speaker 05

  It's not as wonderful.

• 49:01Amy Poehler?

  I've seen you in a T-shirt. You look incredible.

• 49:05Speaker 05

  That was 10 years ago.

• 49:07Amy Poehler?

  Nope, just a few years ago.

• 49:09Speaker 05

  Well, few.

• 49:11Speaker 05

  Life get, life catches up with you.

• 49:13Amy Poehler?

  Yes.

• 49:14Speaker 05

  Life catches up with you. So what, if you're smart.

• 49:18Speaker 05

  I was at a Forbes conference years ago talking about women. And I want, and they said, if you had one piece of advice to give a woman, you know, and these were all businesswoman, professional women, what would that one piece of advice be? And I thought for a moment, then I said, "Wear sleeveless as long as you can." That's my best advice. And then you have to know when to stop wearing sleeveless.

• 49:45Amy Poehler?

  Of course, you got it. And, but you, you weight train, you-

• 49:49Speaker 05

  I did, but I can't wear sleeveless. I don't care how much you weight train.

• 49:52Amy Poehler?

  Okay.

• 49:53Speaker 05

  Life catches up with you. That's why animation is so perfect. Because you can still have a voice.

• 50:03Amy Poehler?

  That's right.

• 50:04Speaker 05

  You still have a voice, you still can create the message. You're creating it through a fun character. And you can show up sleeveless.

• 50:16Amy Poehler?

  But you are such a, but, but to me, you're an incredible example of someone in their 80s who are, you know, there is, I mean, when I was growing up, being in your 80s was, you know-

• 50:29Speaker 05

  Crypt-like.

• 50:30Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, you barely knew anyone in their 80s. It was a miracle to live in your-

• 50:33Speaker 05

  And now we have people running the country who are in their 80s.

• 50:38Amy Poehler?

  And it's like, and I mean, I was lucky enough to be invited to your 80th birthday, which was Western casual, an incredible dance party. You love to dance. You and Jerry were on the dance floor. Jerry's also-

• 50:49Speaker 05

  We were on the dance floor.

• 50:50Amy Poehler?

  We were on the dance floor. Thank you for remembering. Jerry's also keeping it tight. Jerry's also keeping it really tight.

• 50:58Speaker 05

  I guess.

• 50:59Amy Poehler?

  You guys are in, and I don't even just mean, I mean, it's just a, an energy for life, basically. And I, I feel like, I know people like myself are looking ahead to women in their 60s, 70s and 80s to see like, how are you doing? Because you're right, life does catch up with you. But you don't need to decide to get caught up in what is like, the crazy amount of pressure and ageism in this, in this, you know, country and how we want older people to kind of stop talking and disappear and retire. And we want them to all kind of like get quiet and lie down and go away. I mean, you're certainly not doing that.

• 51:37Speaker 05

  The trick is, as you get older-

• 51:42Speaker 05

  You have to stay relevant. If you are interesting,

• 51:48Speaker 05

  people will want to gravitate to you. Old people will want to gravitate to you. And you have to be able to say to old people who want to gravitate to you, you can't pull me down. You want to get out there and cha-cha with me, great. But I'm not sitting home with you and watching the filter in the pool. If all else fails, I can always get a job with a law firm. Because I had a fallback. You weren't stuck.

• 52:16Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, I mean, that's what you felt. That's what it felt like watching your show is you didn't have a vibe of like,

• 52:24Amy Poehler?

  I don't know else how, I don't know how else to say it. It wasn't a thirsty vibe, as the kids say. It was like, I'm gonna do the job I usually do. I'm gonna try to do it over here. If you like it, great. If you don't like it, fine, my hate.

• 52:37Speaker 05

  So watch.

• 52:38Amy Poehler?

  And that is also an incredible negotiation technique. And look, I don't want to talk to you about, we all know how incredibly successful your show was and how incredibly successful you were on it. But I think that the way you talk about negotiation and the way you negotiated is interesting, especially for women.

• 53:01Speaker 05

  You have to know your worth.

• 53:04Speaker 05

  You have to know your worth.

• 53:07Speaker 05

  If,

• 53:09Speaker 05

  and women often have a problem fully appreciating their worth.

• 53:20Speaker 05

  I didn't at the beginning, but I quickly, I was a fast read on this one. And I quickly understood that I could go anywhere.

• 53:37Speaker 05

  But as hard as you try, you haven't been able to find anybody to do this. And you've put on a lot of people.

• 53:43Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 53:44Speaker 05

  You've tried a lot of alternatives that haven't been as successful. So you want to continue making what you make. I'm going to teach you how to be a partner, rather than an employer.

• 53:58Amy Poehler?

  Good language. I'm going to teach you how to be a partner. And can you tell everyone how you would negotiate?

• 54:05Speaker 05

  Well, every few years, I would sit down with the president of our company at the grill on the alley. And we all knew what was, we were there to talk about renewal. And I would have an envelope. And in the envelope would be two or three conditions, three years or four years. And this is my salary. And, but, you know, nothing lengthy. And I would take out the envelope and pass it over to whoever the president was, who kept getting changed. I was still the same person.

• 54:41Speaker 05

  That, I, I recognized that. The face at the other side changed, but this face was the same. And I would slip in the envelope and I would say, don't open it until you get home. Let's have dinner first. And then tomorrow you'll tell me, yea or nay. One, and the final year, the president of the then-company was adorable. I won't name him. And when I took out my envelope, he said, Judy, I have an envelope. And he, when I handed him, he went to hand me mine. I said, I'm not taking your envelope. Because if I take your envelope, it's a negotiation. And this isn't a negotiation.

• 55:26Speaker 05

  And he laughed. He, he actually laughed. I said, but it was true. If I took it and looked at it and opened it.

• 55:32Amy Poehler?

  Of course.

• 55:33Speaker 05

  Because he, well, he did say, maybe it's more than what's in yours. I said, then I'm a loser. Then I'm a loser, but this is, will satisfy me.

• 55:42Amy Poehler?

  Yes.

• 55:43Speaker 05

  This will satisfy me. They put it away. We had a great dinner and we signed on for another few years.

• 55:48Amy Poehler?

  It's so baller. And also, I mean, it goes to exactly what you talk about, that like, when you're trying to figure out how to negotiate, it's like, kind of like, less is more. Figure out your worth, state it, and then the ball is in someone else's court.

• 56:03Speaker 05

  Yes, but you have to make yourself indispensable.

• 56:06Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 56:06Speaker 05

  That's the key. And you don't have to be a television personality to make yourself indispensable. I know doctors who close their practices five years early because their assistant or their secretary who runs the office says, you know what, I'm retiring. And they say, well, you can't retire. I'm not ready to retire. I can't run this place without you. Well, you want me to stay? You have, I don't want to work on Friday. I want three weeks vacation in the summer, and this is my new salary. Well, you've made yourself indispensable. Doesn't matter what you are. So, and you have to be aware of that, how you fit in, can somebody else that they find do what you do?

• 56:47Speaker 05

  And you can also, you know, you can't have unreasonable expectations. I mean, you can't want to own the company.

• 56:53Amy Poehler?

  Right.

• 56:54Speaker 05

  Well, you could want to own the company, but who would want to own that company?

• 56:58Amy Poehler?

  Have you bought the company?

• 57:01Speaker 05

  Who would want, I don't consider myself an artist, so it's easy for me to get down and dirty.

• 57:08Amy Poehler?

  Yeah. Interesting.

• 57:10Speaker 05

  And I don't have an agent, and I don't have a manager.

• 57:13Amy Poehler?

  Incredible. Incredible. I mean, the fact that you negotiated yourself in person.

• 57:19Speaker 05

  Well, that's easy. It's very, it's much harder to, for the company who needs you to turn you down in person than it is to turn down some intermediary that is dealing for 50 people. And it's easy. And also, when it becomes less urgent for you.

• 57:40Amy Poehler?

  Well, that's what it felt like always. Again, that's why it was interesting to watch your show. Is, it did not feel like, honestly, that you even had dreams about being on television.

• 57:50Speaker 05

  No.

• 57:52Speaker 05

  I didn't.

• 57:52Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, so watching it was, and I wanted to ask you a question. So we do this thing where we, we ask somebody who is a friend of our guest, who knows our guest or is a fan of our guest, we ask them a question that, that they should give to me to ask you. First of all, I tried to get your buddy Sam Jackson. He's not a whale, he's on a boat, but.

• 58:18Speaker 05

  Oh, it's summertime, Sam would be on a boat.

• 58:20Amy Poehler?

  I don't know a lot of people know that you and Samuel L. Jackson are great friends.

• 58:23Speaker 05

  We are great friends.

• 58:24Amy Poehler?

  Like, really good friends. Can you just tell me how you guys met?

• 58:28Speaker 05

  We met through Sam's agent, Tony Howard.

• 58:31Amy Poehler?

  Uh huh.

• 58:32Speaker 05

  And

• 58:35Speaker 05

  the one thing Sam hates more than anything in the world is bullshit.

• 58:39Amy Poehler?

  Yeah. You both did that.

• 58:42Speaker 05

  And he's right up front, and everybody knows that. And I think that that's what made us friends. We get each other. He has a wonderful wife, the Tanya, wonderful and talented wife, and he does spend the summer on boats.

• 59:02Amy Poehler?

  Yeah, he's on a boat. So the question I got today was, so Belle, one of our video producers here, Belle, how old are you? I'm 32. 32.

• 59:11Speaker 05

  32.

• 59:12Amy Poehler?

  So Belle.

• 59:12Speaker 05

  I have food in my refrigerator older than you are.

• 59:17Amy Poehler?

  So Belle is a big fan of you, like everyone here, and also Belle's mother, Eileen, who is also the same name as my mom, share, Eileen has watched you since the beginning, and she felt very, I guess the way she would say is seen, heard, and represented. And we talked about how your show gave both of us this like sense of, like, almost like a grounding in a very like watery world, you know? You know, you watch it and you're like, two people, or two sides come, there's some kind of judgment.

• 59:59Amy Poehler?

  There's might be some way out of this mess. That's just kind of how it always felt. Like, it's not gonna be perfect, but we're gonna try the best we can to figure it out in real time. We're gonna ask people to tell the truth. And there's gonna be somebody in charge that isn't gonna let things go crazy.

• 1:00:15Speaker 05

  Somebody in charge who's a woman, which is probably, what?

• 1:00:18Amy Poehler?

  That's right.

• 1:00:18Speaker 05

  Eileen?

• 1:00:19Amy Poehler?

  Eileen.

• 1:00:20Speaker 05

  Some, but probably, I don't know your mom, but I think that a lot of women, I know from what people tell me, a lot of women who felt that there weren't options for them because they didn't, had not seen situations where women were in control. Not only of their own lives, but a lot of other people's lives as well. That it made them feel good. And perhaps gave them a little bit of a jolt. You don't have to stay in that terrible situation.

• 1:01:05Speaker 05

  You can, but you can push yourself. You can do better. Don't bring that other bum home from the bar and give him your credit card and let him drain your bank account. And look at him, there's nothing there, you know? Look, I see, I would watch some wonderful women. Wonderful, smart, professional, working women. And I'd look at the schlub that they gave their car to and their own credit card that they paid for. And I would look at them and I would say, "You must have something that I'm not seeing."

• 1:01:50Speaker 05

  It made them feel good.

• 1:01:52Amy Poehler?

  Yes.

• 1:01:53Speaker 05

  Because somebody had taken advantage of them. Or they felt, they felt that they had no power. That they, they were just going through the motions of life.

• 1:02:04Amy Poehler?

  And you were breaking social protocol. You were saying it out loud in real time.

• 1:02:08Speaker 05

  I was saying it out loud. You get flak, you know, when you have an opinion. And I have very strong opinions about everything. You get flak.

• 1:02:18Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:18Speaker 05

  I don't care. And I, I think we're almost at the end, but I'm going to tell you.

• 1:02:22Amy Poehler?

  I love that Judy's wrapping this up.

• 1:02:23Speaker 05

  I'm going to tell you one story. You said, you know, sometimes some people like and some people don't like. And when, when did you know that you were, when did you know that you were an entertainer?

• 1:02:36Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:38Speaker 05

  Jerry and I were sitting in a bagel restaurant called Tow Bagel on First Avenue when we were living in the city. And we would go there for coffee in the morning. And there were two women sitting not too far away. You know, you got your bagel and you came down, you sat down at the table. And we overheard them and they were talking about the show. And one of them said, oh, my God, I love her. I cannot wait for four o'clock. I love her. And the other one said, I can't stand her. She is such a bitch. She is such a mean spirited person. And I looked at Jerry and I said to him, you know, I know I'm an entertainer. I don't care what they think as long as they watch. One hates you.

• 1:03:22Speaker 05

  And when you look at the people who, you know, you look, as I sometimes do, at IMBD or whatever it is, you see how your show is rated, right? You have five and it's this big yellow line. And then you have a one, people love you all the way to five, people who hate you all the way to one, and then there's two, three, four in the middle. I have very few two, three, four in the middle.

• 1:03:45Amy Poehler?

  Right.

• 1:03:46Speaker 05

  I get fives and ones. That's it. You love or you hate her. As long as you watch.

• 1:03:55Amy Poehler?

  And they do, Julie.

• 1:03:56Speaker 05

  I don't, they watch, you can throw a shoe at the television, I don't care. As long as your Nielsen number then, when I was connected to Neil, is there.

• 1:04:05Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:05Speaker 05

  Now we'll ask you a question then.

• 1:04:06Amy Poehler?

  Well, this question is actually, it ties into what you're saying because, you know, Eileen was asking, like, you have a strong sense of intuition about yourself and other people and, you know, her question was, was it learned or was it natural? And I feel like we kind of talked about it. But what it speaks to is this bigger idea of like, you stay very, you track yourself really well. You know what you want. You have a strong sense of self.

• 1:04:35Speaker 05

  I do. Okay. I do. Came from father.

• 1:04:39Amy Poehler?

  It came from dad.

• 1:04:40Speaker 05

  Came from dad.

• 1:04:41Amy Poehler?

  And how do you cultivate it? How do you keep cultivating it in yourself? And how do you, and how do you help other people find it? Or do you?

• 1:04:48Speaker 05

  Everything is by example, Amy. I don't think that you can, if somebody is sick, you can't tell them, feel better. I want you to feel better.

• 1:04:56Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:57Speaker 05

  I want you to, you're not happy? Be happy. Rah rah, get happy. You can't do that for someone else. All you can do is set the table.

• 1:05:09Amy Poehler?

  Is there anything you're not as certain about as you get older?

• 1:05:14Speaker 05

  I mean, I don't know the answer to that question, but I,

• 1:05:21Speaker 05

  I think younger people, and it may be good. They're more navel gazers than I am. I don't, I don't sit there and say, oh my God, are you in or out or left or right? But I don't.

• 1:05:35Amy Poehler?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:35Speaker 05

  I'm a what is, what is.

• 1:05:37Amy Poehler?

  Okay.

• 1:05:38Speaker 05

  Girl. Because

• 1:05:43Speaker 05

  I probably could benefit from therapy.

• 1:05:46Amy Poehler?

  Never been?

• 1:05:47Speaker 05

  Never been. And people, people will say, well, you for sure could benefit from therapy. Say, well, that's true. But I really don't want to know.

• 1:05:58Amy Poehler?

  Mm-hmm. I understand.

• 1:06:01Speaker 05

  I, I'm not that interested in why I feel the way I feel and why this hurts me and why this makes me happy or why this makes me sad. I just want to say this makes me sad. And if I can excise it. From my life. So, the answer is, I'm not that introspective. And as I said when I started, when I said when I started this, this chat with you, I'm really not an academic. And I'm not inquisitive. I'm not intellectually inquisitive. If I like the pizza, I like the pizza. If I don't, I don't. I don't want to know what you put in your pizza so that it would make it a better pizza. I don't care.

• 1:06:42Speaker 05

  I'll go from Joe's Pizza to Anthony's Pizza, where I know I like it and not try to change Joe.

• 1:06:47Amy Poehler?

  And the very last question. What is making you laugh? When, I know you love to laugh. You're a big laugher. In these times, in these days, like, where do you go to let off steam? What, is it old stuff? Is it new stuff? What do you, do you listen to stuff? What, what, what, where do you go to laugh?

• 1:07:08Speaker 05

  I have very funny children.

• 1:07:12Speaker 05

  They all.

• 1:07:12Amy Poehler?

  That's great.

• 1:07:13Speaker 05

  Many of them have over the top funny, funny sense of the world, funny sense of themselves. And we see each other often. I keep the family close to wherever I am. And they're all wonderful and accomplished. They make me laugh. I don't find anything really. The people that made me laugh were old school people. Who were they? Don Rickles made me laugh.

• 1:07:45Amy Poehler?

  Love Don Rickles.

• 1:07:46Speaker 05

  There were moments when Henny Yeoman made me laugh. Take my wife, please.

• 1:07:56Amy Poehler?

  Did, um, do you, did you, does your kids, do they like tease and rote?

• 1:08:01Speaker 05

  No, they view the world, it, they view the world with a light eye. And they're fun and funny. Anyway, it's been fabulous.

• 1:08:11Amy Poehler?

  Okay, Judy's done. Judy's done. I love it. You're right, I've taken too much of your time. Judy, thank you for doing this. It means so much. I really appreciate you being here. Love you.

• 1:08:20Speaker 05

  Thank you, love you.

• 1:08:23Amy Poehler?

  Wow, that was really incredible. It was really exciting to have Judy in the studio. And I really hope that you enjoyed it as much as I did. And you know, for this polar plunge, as we wrap up this episode, I just want to remind everybody to return their grocery carts into, at the very least, an empty space. And if not, the designated area. I know it's a thing, right? Like, you get all your groceries in your car and you think, "I'm done." And the idea of going back out and doing that, but it does make a difference. And I would implore you to try to even grab one that isn't yours. And then, you know, an angel gets its wings. Like, you're gonna... If you believe in karma, you're...

• 1:09:08Amy Poehler?

  I don't know, that's a good thing to do. So, just do it. Just do it. And picture, just like Judy did, you know, all these women staring at you and judging you. Picture people judging you. That can really motivate you to do good things. Bye!

• 1:09:24Amy Poehler?

  You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and me, Amy Poehler. The show is produced by The Ringer and Paperkite. For The Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spillane, Kaia McMullin, and Aleia Zaniris. For Paperkite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovell, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Original music by Amy Miles.

• 1:09:49Amy Poehler?

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• 1:10:32Amy Poehler?

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• 1:11:17Amy Poehler?

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