The D.A.'s Decision | EP 6 | Season 3

Seven months after the twin boys’ initial forensic interviews, they had another. What the boys said in that second interview led District Attorney Matt Karzen to make a stunning decision. You can reach out to the Burden of Guilt team at [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. For more Burden of Guilt, follow us on Instagram @glasspodcasts https://www.instagram.com/glasspodcasts/. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 3:32Nancy Glass?

  The criminal charges against Kenny Hamph began with one important decision. The doctors reported suspected or potential child abuse. And that happened when Steve, the boy's father, had brought his son to the pediatrician. Here's Kenny's lawyer, Chris Decker.

• 3:50Speaker 07

  This was the beginning of what was a series of medical appointments that this child was brought to over the next days and weeks in order to try to generate evidence.

• 4:04Nancy Glass?

  When Chris started on the case, he was shocked by the number of doctors who had seen the boy: three visits to the pediatrician, two different hospitals, and a sexual assault nurse examiner. Not just asking questions, but giving him examinations.

• 4:21Speaker 07

  It was clear that Steve believed his son had been hurt.

• 4:25Nancy Glass?

  Chris read their findings.

• 4:27Speaker 07

  This child had been seen by numerous medical professionals, none of whom found any serious injury.

• 4:35Nancy Glass?

  No evidence of serious injury.

• 4:38Speaker 07

  The doctor shopping was, I believe, strong evidence that Steve had a priority agenda to establish that his son had been sexually assaulted when he hadn't.

• 4:57Nancy Glass?

  I'm Nancy Glass, and this is Season Three, A Burden of Guilt. Episode Six, The DA's Decision.

• 5:09Nancy Glass?

  The town of Steamboat Springs, Colorado, comes alive every winter. That's when tourists and part-time residents arrive with their ski gear. But Kenny and Cyndi live there year-round.

• 5:21Speaker 06

  It's about 12,000, 13,000 people. It's mostly a resort town, but it has a really nice home, family feel here.

• 5:29Nancy Glass?

  There are little shops, stores, and even a farmer's market in downtown Steamboat. It's also where you'll find the children's store Cyndi owned, called In Celebration of Kids.

• 5:41Speaker 06

  The whole idea was, if you got a birthday party, come here. If you got an anniversary party, come here. Any kind of celebration, come here. That was the whole purpose of that store.

• 5:51Nancy Glass?

  The 10,000-square-foot store felt more like a mall. It had everything from clothing to a pottery studio to an arcade, all geared towards young children and their parents. With Kenny's help, Cyndi turned it into the local gathering place for families.

• 6:09Speaker 06

  It started out really well. And then the accusation took its toll on the business.

• 6:15Nancy Glass?

  The accusation. As soon as word of Kenny's arrest spread through the small town, the whispers began, and it affected Cyndi's business.

• 6:25Speaker 06

  December is one of my biggest months for retail. It was my worst December. Worst December ever.

• 6:32Nancy Glass?

  Even the manager heard from shoppers.

• 6:35Speaker 06

  Some woman came up and said, how does it feel to be working for a pedophile? That was tough. That was really tough.

• 6:42Speaker 02

  They're shaming Cyndi through the manager of, we know who they are. We're never shopping in your place again. You know, so when we started hearing that, we knew that it had gotten out and it was circulating. And really, the whole town knew about it.

• 6:54Nancy Glass?

  To be clear, Kenny was never charged with sexually assaulting Cyndi's son, but the implication was there.

• 7:02Speaker 06

  Yeah. All my friends kind of ditched me.

• 7:08Speaker 06

  That was hard.

• 7:12Speaker 06

  And yeah, it was embarrassing to even call for groceries, really. It was humiliating.

• 7:22Nancy Glass?

  At the time, Kenny was facing a misdemeanor child abuse charge. And if convicted, he could spend up to 364 days in jail. And then, just before Christmas in 2019, the district attorney's office upped Kenny's charge to felony child abuse. They alleged that Kenny gave Cyndi's son a serious bodily injury. And if convicted of that, Kenny would face up to 16 years in prison.

• 7:51Speaker 02

  I'm just kind of like shaking, you know? Scared, you know, like, you know, what's going on? Because this is scary.

• 7:59Nancy Glass?

  The case against Kenny was mounting, and so was the pressure. That's when one of Kenny's lawyers dropped a truth bomb.

• 8:06Speaker 02

  He goes, juries, when it comes down to sexual abuse, they don't want to hear it, and they're just going to throw you to the wolves. They're going to prosecute you to the end, and you won't have a chance.

• 8:16Nancy Glass?

  Kenny's lawyer suggested he cut a deal.

• 8:19Speaker 02

  He's like, look, you should just plead down on this one. Say that I did it, and I'm guilty. And I was just like, no way in hell am I going to admit that I did anything, because I did not do anything. And that's what I told them.

• 8:33Nancy Glass?

  Kenny said, no deal. To take a plea would be assuming the label of sexual predator. Worse yet, child sexual predator. Kenny wasn't one. And he'd fight to the death before wearing that label.

• 8:47Speaker 02

  Cyndi and I are both fighters, so we were going to conquer this together.

• 8:54Nancy Glass?

  From the very beginning, Cyndi and Kenny said there was no wedgie, and there was no sexual abuse. Both are convinced this was entirely manufactured by Cyndi's ex-husband, Steve. That was clear to Cyndi, especially when she read through the DHS report, and it took her months to get it.

• 9:15Speaker 06

  I'm reading this report, and I'm reading how many times my son is saying, yeah, my dad is telling me these things. Who wouldn't look at that and say, what's wrong with dad? And start interviewing and start talking to dad?

• 9:29Nancy Glass?

  And Cindy took issue with the report's timeline.

• 9:33Speaker 06

  I could tell them their whole timeline was wrong.

• 9:36Nancy Glass?

  Her son said the alleged wedgie happened on a Sunday night at Cindy's condo while they were watching the movie Rango. But here's the thing, Cindy rented that movie herself. She kept the receipt and she knows her son's timeline was off. It couldn't have happened on Sunday night.

• 9:54Speaker 06

  It's impossible. And here's why. We literally have a receipt for buying the movie. We watched half the movie on Wednesday, finished the rest of it after they were riding their bikes on Thursday, and the boys left Friday morning.

• 10:07Nancy Glass?

  Cindy believes her son's brand-new bike caused his injury. He was riding it for a couple of hours, wearing board shorts without underwear. Cindy said she gave all this information to investigators. And just talking about this reporting is difficult. It opens a deep wound.

• 10:26Speaker 06

  He said his butt hurt on Thursday while watching the movie. He said his butt hurt. And I have the bike information. I have a receipt for the bike that very day. And you guys just completely ignore it.

• 10:37Nancy Glass?

  To prove the point, Cindy took video of her son on his new bike and then sent it to Kamala, the DHS caseworker.

• 10:45Speaker 06

  And I'm thinking, I'm going and giving this information and the caseworker is be like, oh, makes perfect sense. No, that video was used against me.

• 11:01Nancy Glass?

  In Kamala's report, she listed Cindy putting her son on the bike as an example of Cindy not following her advice.

• 11:09Speaker 06

  She was upset. She goes, well, you talked about their interviews with them and gave them a new narrative about the injury. And I said, I didn't give them a new narrative. I said, I'm asking about other information that was not even included in the interview. So I was punished for providing information that was so common sense and logical that it blew their other theory out of the water.

• 11:34Nancy Glass?

  There was another thing about the DHS report that frustrated Cindy. The report referenced numerous recorded interviews with the children, forensic interviews, where her kids were being asked about alleged abuse. But Cindy hadn't received copies of those. As the charges grew more serious and the case got more complex, Cindy and Kenny both hired new lawyers.

• 12:00Speaker 07

  My name is Chris Decker. I am the attorney that represented Kenny Hamp.

• 12:07Nancy Glass?

  Chris grew up in rural Colorado and has practiced law for over 30 years, many of those defending people accused of sexual assault.

• 12:15Speaker 07

  Yeah, I didn't wake up one morning and decide to be specializing in sexual assault defense. It kind of came to me through my time at the public defender system. I tried a number of very difficult, fairly high-profile sexual assault cases.

• 12:33Nancy Glass?

  And when he got involved with Kenny's case.

• 12:36Speaker 07

  It appeared from the outset that Steve was essentially hell-bent on getting a sexual assault prosecution and conviction on Kenny Hamp. When you hear the word sexual assault or sexual assault on a child, we all have an emotional reaction, feelings of hatred and punishment. And if we're not careful, we lower the standard or the bar to prove whether or not someone has done a horrible act such as sexual assault on a child.

• 13:07Nancy Glass?

  Once Chris finally got copies of the police reports, forensic interviews, and meetings with the investigators, he immediately went back to where it all began, that weekend trip to Las Vegas. Just before they left for the airport, the boy's grandmother, Alayda, said she first noticed her grandson walking funny. Here's audio of Alayda sharing this information with Detective Cypher. He was walking with his legs apart, which he never does. Alayda told investigators, the boy was in such pain that weekend that Steve had to carry him. But Chris wasn't so sure.

• 13:48Speaker 07

  Throughout this weekend, you know, he's seen jumping on a bed with a smile on his face. He's at a water park. They're going to shows.

• 13:59Nancy Glass?

  That weekend in Vegas, Steve posted a photo to Facebook of his allegedly injured son jumping on a hotel bed. Chris also learned that Steve took the boys to a jousting tournament, a water park, and even an amusement park where the boy went on some rides. The one place they didn't go in Vegas? Urgent care or the ER.

• 14:22Speaker 07

  There was a real dichotomy between the activities they were engaged in and what they said the child's condition was. It just didn't add up that they would have custody of a child in severe pain and not call any doctors, not take the child to urgent care or pediatrician in Las Vegas.

• 14:47Nancy Glass?

  Something else that stood out to Chris? Alayda told Detective Cypher that while they were in Vegas, her grandson told her how Kenny abused him. He told me that Kenny had put something hard and is behind it. And he told me it felt like his body was getting ripped apart.

• 15:08Speaker 07

  This child shared with her that Kenny had abused him, but she said that she didn't share that information. She just didn't feel like it was her role, which didn't sound believable at all. If he's suffering and he has told her that something has been placed in his bottom, there's just no scenario where any parent or grandparent wouldn't either themselves take that child to see somebody or at least tell a professional what's going on. I mean, that's just beyond belief.

• 15:48Nancy Glass?

  And then there were the photos Steve took in Vegas, the series of photos of his son's bottom. Here's what Alayda told Detective Cypher about those. We saw his backside. We saw what it looked like. And it wasn't normal. There was a tear back there. There was a small blister in there. And he had anal bruises. You don't get that from wedgies. We did not see those photos, so I asked Chris what he remembered.

• 16:16Speaker 07

  What I saw in those photos was a fairly normal child's bottom. I saw very, very little, some slight reddening and not a lot more. In one or two pictures, he was pulling his own butt cheeks apart. And then there was one with Christine's hand holding his buttocks open.

• 16:40Nancy Glass?

  What Chris did find abnormal was that Steve communicated with Cindy that weekend in Vegas, but not about their son's alleged injury. In fact, one minute before Steve took the first of several pictures of his son, he sent a message to Cindy.

• 16:57Speaker 07

  Steve communicated with Cindy and told her that they had moved to the Mandalay Bay, but he was not telling her anything about his specific concerns about potential injury or cause of injury.

• 17:10Nancy Glass?

  Chris wondered why Steve informed Cindy they were moving to a new hotel but didn't say a word about his concern for their son.

• 17:18Speaker 07

  My first and lasting impression about seeing these photos was that it was telling me more about the person taking the pictures than about what was being depicted on them.

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• 20:41Nancy Glass?

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• 21:25Nancy Glass?

  The same week that Kenny got arrested, he and Cindy were scheduled to close on the five-bedroom house in Steamboat Springs that was supposed to be their dream home. I'm under contract for this house, and it closes within days of Kenny being arrested. And I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm vacillating. I was like, do I buy it? Do I not? This is crazy. I don't know. Cindy went through with the purchase, and she eventually moved in by herself. With charges still pending against Kenny, they felt it was best to be apart. Kenny felt like the entire town of Steamboat Springs had already convicted him. So he packed up his bags and drove their camper

• 22:08Nancy Glass?

  to a state park a few hours away.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  I'm going from two years with Cindy and the kids, just an amazing life, to living in a trailer park, in a travel trailer by myself. I was a shut down machine of survival mode. I think that's naturally there to protect you against, you know, bad things, self harm.

• 22:34Nancy Glass?

  His lawyer, Chris Decker, checked in on him.

• 22:37Speaker 07

  He has told me those were the darkest hours because he, he knew he hadn't done anything. But, you know, here he is falsely charged, and he doesn't know what's going to happen to him.

• 22:53Speaker 02

  I watched a lot of National Geographic and laying in bed 24 hours a day, just not even paying attention to what's on TV, you know, History Channel, something like that. It was pretty depressing.

• 23:07Nancy Glass?

  Meanwhile, Chris continued to comb through the discovery related to Kenny's case, especially that meeting Steve and Christine had with Detective Cypher's and the DHS caseworker Kamala Hite.

• 23:20Speaker 07

  In watching those interviews, a number of things jumped out. He showed up with notes.

• 23:28Nancy Glass?

  Here's Steve talking with Kamala.

• 23:30Speaker 02

  Do you want to go through the data that we have real quick so at least they know?

• 23:33Nancy Glass?

  What do y'all want? What is, what is the data? Can you tell us what it is?

• 23:37Speaker 02

  Why don't you go ahead and hand out yours, and then I'll hand out mine.

• 23:40Nancy Glass?

  During that meeting, Steve and Christine came in with what Steve referred to as data for the investigators.

• 23:47Speaker 02

  This stuff right here is all about recent kids' health. So it's just kind of a snapshot of what we're dealing with. There are three years, now there's 10 years of history, binders of information. But, you know, I, I just, you don't need that right now. If you want to, come talk to us. That's where the Dropbox, we've already got them set up.

• 24:07Nancy Glass?

  A Dropbox with 10 years of history on his nine-year-old son. Exactly what history he's referring to? We don't know. He even told Detective Cypher's, if you need more, dude, I can data dump on you.

• 24:21Speaker 07

  You see Steve and Christine really pressing the detective for criminal prosecution.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  How do we get Cindy? Is there a crime that's been committed?

• 24:32Speaker 07

  And then Steve was constantly adding new information, most of which was not true, to try to get a sexual assault prosecution.

• 24:43Nancy Glass?

  He said one example was what Steve told investigators about his son's exam with the sane nurse.

• 24:50Speaker 07

  A sane nurse is simply a nurse practitioner who has been trained to collect photographs of any potential injuries, swabbing of any areas that may contain DNA.

• 25:04Nancy Glass?

  Steve's son was examined by the sane nurse, and here's what Steve said about that exam.

• 25:11Speaker 02

  Like, just take off your nurse hat for a moment, right? And just talk to me as a parent. What do you think? She's like, yeah. She goes, there's something. She said, I can't prove it. And I don't know what it is. But she's like, but that ain't a wedgie. So I think that's the one thing everybody agrees, is that it's not a wedgie.

• 25:29Speaker 07

  He told the detective falsely that the sane nurse had told him that something had definitely happened to this child, and that was not true. This was a father who was attempting to steer the criminal justice system with false narrative against Cindy and Kenny in order to take the children away from their mother.

• 25:59Nancy Glass?

  If there was one moment that revealed Steve's motive, Chris said it was when Kamala asked Steve this question. If you could wave a magic wand today,

• 26:09Speaker 07

  what would you want as far as a parenting agreement plan?

• 26:13Speaker 02

  Full custody of the children.

• 26:16Speaker 07

  His answer was very clear. I want full custody of these kids. And that was his agenda from the start.

• 26:23Nancy Glass?

  Chris said he found the timing of the abuse allegation to be suspect. He pointed to the company Cindy and Steve owned together, Wildcat Minerals, and the lawsuit Cindy filed against Steve and another former colleague to get her fair share. According to the Denver Gazette, both sides ultimately agreed to a $10.5 million settlement.

• 26:46Speaker 07

  And the payment of that settlement occurred only days before these allegations arose. So you have this confluence of situations where Steve had long wanted full custody of the kids. He had just made a large cash payment as settlement, and up popped these allegations against Kenny Ham. There's no way that it's a coincidence.

• 27:19Nancy Glass?

  It troubled Chris that Steve didn't take his son to see a doctor the weekend they were in Las Vegas. Instead, he took photos of his son's injury. Once they returned home to Steamboat Springs, that's when Steve first took his son to see his pediatrician, Dr. Fountain.

• 27:37Speaker 07

  What was significant about that first visit with Dr. Fountain is that Steve had brought these photos. And so Dr. Fountain was in the situation where she was trying to interpret what she was seeing on the photos and what she was seeing with her own eyes that day. And what she saw with her own eyes that day was a well child with no injuries. This was the beginning of what was a series of medical appointments that this child was brought to over the next days and weeks in order to try to generate evidence.

• 28:17Nancy Glass?

  In addition to the appointment with Dr. Fountain, the boy had an exam with a sexual assault nurse that week. He also had a forensic interview, two additional appointments with Dr. Fountain, as well as a visit to a local medical center in Steamboat. And there was more. Late one night, Steve even drove three hours to take his son to yet another hospital where he was examined by two more doctors.

• 28:44Speaker 07

  This child had been seen by numerous medical professionals, none of whom found any serious injury to this child.

• 28:52Nancy Glass?

  Think about it. This nine-year-old boy went through a week being examined so closely, so many times, and each time, the result was the same.

• 29:03Speaker 07

  The doctor shopping was, I believe, strong evidence that Steve had a priority agenda to establish that his son had been sexually assaulted when he hadn't.

• 29:15Nancy Glass?

  Chris was also confused by the fact that Kenny was charged with a felony.

• 29:20Speaker 07

  That was very strange to us at the time because there were no doctors who said anything about serious bodily injury. And we never got a straight answer from the deputy district attorney.

• 29:36Nancy Glass?

  We got in touch with the district attorney.

• 29:39Speaker 05

  My name is Matt Karzen, the elected district attorney in the 14th Judicial District of Colorado, which is where Steamboat Springs is.

• 29:48Nancy Glass?

  By the spring of 2020, the district attorney, Matt Karzen, had been looped into the case, which is unusual. Typically, these cases are handled by the assigned prosecutor and the detective.

• 30:00Speaker 05

  There was allegations of child abuse and potentially rising to the felony level. And it was becoming very messy very quickly. And so I was involved maybe more than I would normally be.

• 30:13Nancy Glass?

  He distinctly remembers Steve urging his office to file charges. And not just any charges.

• 30:19Speaker 05

  The pressure to put the highest possible charges on Mr. Hamp was unprecedented. I'd never seen it, and it went above and beyond what you would expect in terms of parental rage if they know that their child was victimized by somebody. I mean, any parent would be enraged by that.

• 30:38Nancy Glass?

  The problem was, when the DA reviewed the children's initial forensic interviews.

• 30:44Speaker 05

  At no point during a forensic interview did either of the two children involved here reliably report that they had been a victim of sexual assault. I don't even think they reported it.

• 30:54Nancy Glass?

  But he said Steve kept pressing.

• 30:57Speaker 05

  He wanted a felony charge. He wanted sexual abuse charges. And when we would explain that wasn't going to happen and why it wasn't going to happen, more than once, he would report that, oh, now my children are telling me that this other thing happened, and it is sexual abuse. And if their father was telling me they were now disclosing sexual abuse, we needed to vet that. So we would do another forensic interview.

• 31:17Nancy Glass?

  So DA Karzen made the decision to order another round of forensic interviews. In the initial interview, the boy had been vague about his accusation. He talked about a wedgie Kenny gave him just for fun. And then, in his forensic interview seven months later, the boy's story had dramatically changed.

• 31:39Speaker 05

  You know, that was, that was a problem for me.

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• 33:21Speaker 06

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• 33:34Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Elizabeth, a surfer, advocate, and founder of the Kirby Surfer Girl Movement. When I received both the plaque psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis diagnosis, surfing, being active, trusting my body, so much of what made me me suddenly felt harder to do. I didn't know what my future would look like. I had to learn to listen to my body so I could keep moving, keep being me, and keep showing up for the people who see themselves in my story. So I worked with my doctors to come up with a plan. That's where Cosentyx came in. Cosentyx treats both plaque psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis, and helps stop further joint damage from psoriatic arthritis. Today, I'm still an athlete, as Kirby Surfer Girl

• 34:19Speaker 06

  and as part of the Women's Body Positive Movement, showing that circumstances shouldn't stop you from doing what you love.

• 34:26Speaker 04

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• 35:09Speaker 06

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• 35:26Nancy Glass?

  In September of 2019, each of Cindy and Steve's three children had a forensic interview. Seven months later, District Attorney Matt Karzen ordered another round of forensic interviews for Steve's twin boys.

• 35:41Speaker 05

  I was really reluctant to do yet another one.

• 35:45Nancy Glass?

  While it isn't common for a second interview to happen, especially seven months later, the DA decided it was important, based on the allegations Steve had been reporting.

• 35:56Speaker 05

  Rather than go, you know, send a police officer to talk to these kids, we did another forensic interview, just trying to exercise due diligence.

• 36:05Nancy Glass?

  The twin boys were nine years old and had spent the past seven months exclusively with their father Steve and his wife Christine. That's because they had been taken away from their mother by the court.

• 36:17Speaker 05

  When the forensic interview came back and I watched, the story had changed many, many times. We see that sometimes, particularly with young children. The disclosure of ongoing abuse comes out in episodes and chapters, and there are people smarter than me, psychiatrists and psychologists, that can explain the science and psychology behind all of that. That's not uncommon. But the way it was changing here was very uncommon.

• 36:44Nancy Glass?

  That's because his story changed completely. This time, he said Kenny gave him a wedgie in the pool, and even put his hand down his shorts in a hot tub. He added that the night before his birthday, Kenny gave him a glass of water that was laced with something. He explained that his dad and Christine believed Kenny put something in that water to make him sleep.

• 37:14Speaker 05

  The red flags were getting bigger and more numerous at that point.

• 37:19Nancy Glass?

  And listen to what else the boy said.

• 37:21Speaker 06

  And who told you that Kenny was sexually assaulted you?

• 37:28Speaker 06

  Um, my dad. Your dad told you? Tell me what your dad said. He said, "I'll be up and sexually assaulted." And then I said, "What did that mean?" And he said, "It means like, uh, that Kenny has hurt you very, very badly."

• 37:49Nancy Glass?

  According to the boy, his dad said Kenny stuck something up him, and that it was really wrong of him to do that.

• 38:00Speaker 05

  The child was asked, "Why do you think this happened?" And the answer was, "Because my dad told me." It was really problematic. It was becoming very suspicious for parental coaching, beyond suspicious, honestly.

• 38:14Speaker 06

  But it was your dad that told you that Kenny had done it? Yeah, like after Kamala. After Kamala?

• 38:25Speaker 05

  That's when I knew. Not only was there a reasonable doubt about whether Mr. Hamp had committed a crime, you know, there was stronger evidence that the allegations, the specific allegations, were fabricated by the children, at a minimum grossly embellished at the hands of their father. That became crystal clear.

• 38:43Nancy Glass?

  Hearing so much attributed to Steve was enough for the DA to make a decision about Kenny.

• 38:50Speaker 05

  We had somebody charged who may be actually innocent, who's essentially being framed. And once you get to that point, you have to drop that case as quickly as possible, and that's what we did.

• 39:00Nancy Glass?

  The last few months had been a painful whirlwind for Kenny. In October, he was arrested and thrown in jail. He spent the night sleeping on the floor, charged with misdemeanor child abuse. That charge later grew to felony child abuse. And his reputation, it was destroyed. For months, people saw Kenny as a pariah. Then, in June of 2020, it was over.

• 39:30Nancy Glass?

  It was the news Kenny had been waiting months to hear.

• 39:35Speaker 06

  When I got that news and there's not too many times in your life where you can scream out loud in pure joy. And I did it. Yes, you know, yelling and screaming and just pounding your fist on the steering wheel. You know, the character assassination is one thing, but the repercussions in the legal system can be extreme. So the truth was so important. That was the most amazing pure joy moment of my life. And I called Cindy right away and she was screaming like joy, just screaming happy. And I think it was a release point because of all the dread that was going on the past for both of them calls.

• 40:20Nancy Glass?

  With Kenny finally cleared of all child abuse charges, life seemed like it was ready to return to normal, as normal as it could be. Cindy returned to court in hopes of getting her children back. And in the summer of 2020, a custody hearing followed. It featured more than a dozen witnesses over nine days. And when it was over, Judge Mary Hope made a startling conclusion. A voice actor will read what Judge Hope said. I will tell you, I was not surprised to see the charges dismissed, but understand that we don't find people guilty or innocent. We find them guilty or not guilty.

• 41:04Nancy Glass?

  And the people don't always dismiss charges because someone's innocent. That isn't always what happens. And it's way too black and white and draconian to think of it that way. I believe something inappropriate occurred between Mr. Hamp and these children. Let me say it again. I believe that something inappropriate occurred between Mr. Hamp and these children. Okay. I'm not being careless. I am basing this on nine days of evidence is what I'm doing. Nine days. All right. I can make the finding and I would posit that I am duty bound to do so. And I have done so and I take that seriously.

• 41:46Nancy Glass?

  And after hearing everything, that's what I believe. The ruling was another painful blow to Cindy. It's unbelievable. It was almost like a punishment, like get on board here and you can see your kids if you just say this happened. When the allegation that Kenny abused her son first came up, Cindy felt a lot of pressure to break up with him. But instead she chose to pursue the truth. Because if I get rid of Kenny, that's almost like saying Kenny's guilty. Then I'm saying this happened. And that's even worse than saying, no, this never happened. I'm going to make sure my kids know this never happened. So I say, no, no, I'm not doing it.

• 42:30Nancy Glass?

  And now Cindy felt like she was asked to do that a second time. And once again, she chose to stand by the truth. And while she fought to get her kids back, she and Kenny made another big decision. They sued Steve in civil court. You heard Steve say in one of the interviews, how do we get Cindy now? I was always the target. Kenny was the collateral damage, sadly.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  I was highly upset at what I had to go through, what Steve did. It wasn't a monetary gain that I was going after. I was now after going to clear my name through a civil lawsuit and hold him liable for this.

• 43:10Nancy Glass?

  This was a civil lawsuit, meaning that jail time wasn't at stake. Both sides were seeking monetary damages. For Cindy, it wasn't about money. It was about her three children. The moment you rip kids away and they go to that other parent, well, good luck. Cause now they got full control over that child's mind. And now the real abuse is really beginning. And you can't do anything about it and you know, it's happening. As a mother, that's really frustrating. What followed was a lengthy 22 day trial. And in the courtroom, secrets would be revealed.

• 43:47Speaker 07

  I told the jury to keep their eyes on three things. The creation of evidence, the destruction of evidence, and the withholding of evidence.

• 43:55Nancy Glass?

  Conversations came to light that no one was supposed to hear.

• 44:00Speaker 07

  They had that secret recording. This surreptitious tape recording suddenly showed up.

• 44:07Nancy Glass?

  That's next time on Burden of Guilt. Thanks for listening. If you're enjoying Burden of Guilt, subscribe, rate and review the series with five stars, hopefully. That helps other people find our show. Are you curious about what the people involved in this look like? Do you want to hear bonus content?

• 44:49Nancy Glass?

  Just check out our Instagram account at Glass Podcasts. You can reach out to the Burden of Guilt team at [email protected]. That's [email protected]. Burden of Guilt is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. This series is executive produced and hosted by me, Nancy Glass, produced by Todd Gans, also produced by Ben Fetterman and Andrea Gunning. Additional production support provided by Carrie Hartman. Our story editor is Monique LaBord.

• 45:33Nancy Glass?

  Our associate producer is Jade Abdul Malik. Our production manager is Christian Mulkey. Our iHeart team is Ally Perry and Jessica Krychek. Audio editing by Tanner Robbins and Dean Welsh. Audio mixing and mastering by Anna McLean and Matt Del Vecchio. The Burden of Guilt theme is composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by MyB Music. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeart Radio app or Apple Podcasts.

• 46:07Speaker 01

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• 48:56Speaker 00

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