My Dad | EP 5 | Season 3

The children’s forensic interviews reveal inconsistencies about the alleged abuse. And then, 48 hours after those initial interviews, the child’s story would escalate. It left investigators wondering, “What happened?” You can reach out to the Burden of Guilt team at [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. For more Burden of Guilt, follow us on Instagram @glasspodcasts https://www.instagram.com/glasspodcasts/. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 2:57Speaker 06

  Your brother and your sister and your dad and everyone else, they're not watching, so it's a safe place to talk.

• 3:04Nancy Glass?

  That's the voice of Wendy. She's the specially-trained forensic interviewer who spoke to all three children about the abuse allegation.

• 3:13Speaker 06

  My job is to talk to kids. I talked to lots of kids to find out if they're safe.

• 3:20Nancy Glass?

  So far, you've heard a lot of people regarding a serious charge of child abuse. Now you're going to hear what the nine-year-old boy, his twin brother, and his sister told Wendy, the forensic interviewer.

• 3:32Speaker 06

  Do you promise to tell me the truth today?

• 3:37Nancy Glass?

  These recorded interviews are essential to understanding what happened.

• 3:42Speaker 06

  So tell me what you're here to talk to me about today.

• 3:55Nancy Glass?

  I'm Nancy Glass, and this is season three of Burden of Guilt. Episode five, My Dad.

• 4:05Nancy Glass?

  Cyndi's time with her three children changed immediately after the arrest of her fiance, Kenny Hamp, on charges of child abuse. The same day Kenny was arrested, Cyndi's ex-husband, Steve, filed a motion to restrict Cyndi's 50/50 shared parenting time. Because of that, two days later, Cyndi and Steve stood before Judge Mary Hope for an emergency hearing. Now, Cyndi's lawyer was out of town, so an associate handled the matter, and Cyndi called that hearing disorganized.

• 4:40Speaker 00

  I said, should we do a continuance here? Because I feel like nobody's prepared. I don't think we have all the information that we need, and this just feels chaotic right now. When there's chaos, there's going to be confusion.

• 4:53Nancy Glass?

  Cyndi said even she was confused. She walked in thinking this hearing would be all about the alleged wedgie. But that didn't seem to be on Judge Hope's radar.

• 5:05Speaker 00

  She never even identified it. She never talked about it. She never asked questions about it. She thought she was there for some kind of sexual abuse, and mom isn't believing the child.

• 5:16Nancy Glass?

  And that's when it became clear to Cyndi that this was no longer about a wedgie. In Steve's motion, he included a letter from one of the boy's teachers as evidence that Kenny had sexually and physically abused the boy. But strangely, neither the teacher nor the boy's pediatrician, Dr. Fountain, was called to testify. Even Judge Hope wasn't in the room. She appeared virtually.

• 5:42Speaker 00

  So I don't think she picked up on half of what was going on in that courtroom.

• 5:45Nancy Glass?

  What stood out to Cyndi was how her ex-husband was acting.

• 5:50Speaker 00

  When I saw Steve laughing with his attorney, I'm like, something's not right here.

• 5:56Nancy Glass?

  When the hearing wrapped up, Judge Hope ruled that the children would remain with Steve for the duration of the DHS investigation, which would be up to 60 days.

• 6:07Speaker 00

  I was shocked. The judge made a ruling without a doctor present or the witness that said, my son said these things.

• 6:16Nancy Glass?

  Instead of seeing her kids every other week, the judge reduced Cyndi's parenting time to a weekly phone call and a four-hour visit.

• 6:26Speaker 00

  It just felt like a runaway train at that moment. And that's the hardest thing as a parent in these situations. You're under a microscope now. So I thought, okay, it's going to be 60 days. Just try and stay calm. Don't write any mad, angry emails to Steve because that's what he's wanting.

• 6:44Nancy Glass?

  Instead, Cyndi sent emails to Kamala, the DHS caseworker handling the investigation.

• 6:51Speaker 00

  I kept sending her emails, trying to get a conversation going with her, and she just didn't respond to anything. The thing that bothered me, though, is she contacted my attorney and said, "Cyndi needs to stop emailing me things about Steve. My investigation is about you and Kenny. It's not about them."

• 7:08Nancy Glass?

  And Kamala was right. Her role was only to investigate Cyndi and Kenny's household, not Steve and Christine's. That's the standard protocol for DHS caseworkers. Nevertheless, Cyndi felt like no one was listening.

• 7:23Speaker 00

  Isn't it about a child? Isn't it about possible abuse? And so I said, "Could the abuse have occurred there? Maybe we should take a look at that, and here's why." She says, "No, no. I'm not investigating them. I'm investigating you."

• 7:43Nancy Glass?

  Both the Steamboat Springs Police Department and DHS investigated, and their investigations relied heavily on what the children said. But it's important to note who they talked to. Since the children were minors at the time, the protocol involved having what were known as child forensic interviews. Those were done by a specially-trained professional at a child advocacy center.

• 8:08Speaker 06

  My name is Cassandra Baca, and I am the Multidisciplinary Team Coordinator for Colorado Children's Alliance. I have previously been the Program Director, Lead Interviewer, and a family advocate at a child advocacy center.

• 8:24Nancy Glass?

  To be clear, Cassandra did not work on this case. However, she conducts forensic interviews with children and has firsthand knowledge of how those interviews work. We reached out to her to learn more about the process.

• 8:38Speaker 06

  In the past, without a child advocacy center, a child would have to tell their story, on average, about 13 times. And now with a child advocacy center, the child doesn't have to tell their story over and over and over again.

• 8:54Nancy Glass?

  Today, a child speaks directly with a specially-trained forensic interviewer, and ideally, they only have to tell their story one time. And while that happens, law enforcement and DHS watch the interview from a separate room.

• 9:10Speaker 06

  We are completely neutral, so we're not trying to prove an element of a crime or disprove it. We also are not trying to elicit a disclosure from a child. That's not our goal. Our goal is to provide a space in case a disclosure is made.

• 9:29Nancy Glass?

  The key is to interview the child as quickly as possible without a lot of people questioning him before they get to the interview. And the major no-no for an interviewer is to ask what are known as leading questions.

• 9:44Speaker 06

  A leading question introduces information that the child did not already say. So for example, you mentioned this person's name. What did they do to you?

• 9:58Speaker 03

  That is a leading question because if the child did not already say, "This person's name did this action," then I am introducing information.

• 10:12Nancy Glass?

  So let's talk about these forensic interviews that took place while Cindy and Kenny were still in Hawaii and had no idea what was going on.

• 10:23Nancy Glass?

  We'll begin with Cindy and Steve's nine-year-old boy. This is the twin who claimed Kenny gave him a wedgie. My name is Wendy. My job is to talk to kids. I talk to lots of kids to find out if they're safe. That's the voice of Wendy, the forensic interviewer. She spent about nine minutes talking with the boy about things like sports and movies before shifting gears.

• 10:48Speaker 03

  So tell me all about what you're here to talk to me about today.

• 10:54Speaker 06

  Daddy wanted to come here to talk about, he thought, which I'm not really stressed about, he just wanted me to talk about my butt.

• 11:10Speaker 06

  But I really don't, I really don't like,

• 11:17Speaker 06

  know what to say about it.

• 11:21Speaker 03

  Well, tell me everything from the beginning.

• 11:26Speaker 06

  My stepdad gave me a huge wedgie.

• 11:29Speaker 03

  Okay, tell me all about that wedgie.

• 11:33Speaker 06

  We were watching a movie called Rango and after he was playing fun and gave me a wedgie.

• 11:44Nancy Glass?

  The boy said his mom, Kenny, his twin brother, and his sister were all in the room when it happened, but he couldn't remember the exact day.

• 11:53Speaker 03

  Did they all see you get the wedgie?

• 11:55Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 11:55Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 11:56Nancy Glass?

  But the boy again repeated that it was just for fun and that he still loves Kenny.

• 12:03Speaker 06

  I still love him.

• 12:05Speaker 03

  You love him?

• 12:05Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:06Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 12:07Speaker 06

  He's nice. He's really good at fixing stuff.

• 12:11Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 12:13Speaker 03

  You mentioned that you watched Rango with Kenny and other people. Have you ever watched any bad movies with Kenny?

• 12:20Speaker 06

  Not like rated R ones, no.

• 12:22Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 12:23Speaker 06

  We always keep things simple.

• 12:25Speaker 03

  Keep things simple? Okay. So you talked about your butt already because of the wedgie. Has Kenny ever touched any other part of your body?

• 12:35Speaker 06

  Nah.

• 12:38Nancy Glass?

  Later on, they discussed a dream the boy had. The boy explained that in his dream, the strongest man on Earth, whose first name started with the letter K but was not Kenny, ripped open his bottom.

• 12:53Speaker 03

  Somebody couldn't get your butt open, so they ripped it apart? Okay.

• 13:00Speaker 03

  So tell me about that more.

• 13:04Speaker 06

  It was at night and I couldn't get my butt open to see what was going on, so they ripped it apart with their hands.

• 13:17Speaker 03

  Okay. And who did this?

• 13:21Speaker 06

  The strongest man on Earth, because I know what he looks like.

• 13:26Speaker 03

  Who's the strongest man on Earth?

• 13:28Speaker 06

  Can't remember his name. It started like a K and I know him, I kind of know him because I've like, we've like seen him in some places on like stages and stuff.

• 13:42Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 13:44Nancy Glass?

  Wendy would spend a great deal of time exploring if that person was Kenny.

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• 17:46Nancy Glass?

  Cindy's nine-year-old son spent over an hour talking with a specially-trained forensic interviewer named Wendy. He told Wendy Kenny gave him a wedgie and that his mom, twin brother, and sister all saw it. He also described a dream he had.

• 18:03Speaker 03

  So you said that it was a strong man whose name starts with K. And you said that he came into your room. And you said that he then touched your butt. Tell me about how this strong man whose name starts with a K touched your butt.

• 18:25Speaker 06

  It wasn't Kenny.

• 18:27Speaker 03

  Okay, how do you know it wasn't Kenny?

• 18:30Speaker 06

  Because Kenny has bright hair and not eyes. And he doesn't have long hair. Okay.

• 18:38Speaker 06

  Have you had this dream once or more than once? Once. And only once. Once and only once? And daddy wanted me to talk about it. Okay.

• 18:50Nancy Glass?

  Later on, Wendy took things in a different direction. And listen carefully to her question because she's about to break protocol.

• 18:59Speaker 06

  I had the chance to talk to the people that are helping me do my job. And they have information from the doctor that you saw about your bottom. The doctor that saw your bottom is very worried that the injuries that you have to your bottom did not happen from a wedgie. So tell me how else the injuries to your bottom happened.

• 19:31Nancy Glass?

  Okay, I want to stop here to point out that Wendy is basically telling the boy that his doctor, Sheila Fountain, said he didn't get his injury from a wedgie. That's a leading question, which is not normal protocol for a forensic interviewer. Here's how the boy answered.

• 19:49Speaker 06

  I don't really know how it happened, but Sheila said maybe gave it a burn and then like a rub burn in it and then gave it an infection. So how would you get a rub burn on your bottom? From the wedgie, like it, um, when rubbed on it and it got really heated.

• 20:14Nancy Glass?

  He demonstrated the friction of a wedgie by rubbing his hand against the cushion of his seat. Then Wendy pressed on.

• 20:21Speaker 06

  Why would the doctor be worried that something else happened? I don't know. So Sheila said she's worried that your bottom didn't get hurt from a wedgie. So tell me how else it might have happened.

• 20:37Speaker 06

  I don't know any other way that it could have gotten hurt. Okay. Sometimes when scary things or hurtful things happen, we think they're dreams, but they may actually be things that have happened. Has the scary dream ever happened at mommy and Kenny's house? Um, no, I wouldn't say scary. It wasn't scary. Okay. I just felt normal.

• 21:09Nancy Glass?

  With that, the interview wrapped up, and Wendy moved on to the boy's twin brother. Their conversation went in a completely different direction.

• 21:21Speaker 06

  Your brother and your sister and your dad and your grandma and your stepmom, they're not watching this interview, okay? So this is a safe place to talk about things that are worrying you or making you scared. The court know about this? Will the court know about this?

• 21:38Nancy Glass?

  The question from the nine-year-old seemed to catch Wendy off guard.

• 21:43Speaker 06

  That's not my job to make that decision. The people that are watching this video, they'll get this information and then they decide what to do with it. But those are questions that we can get answered when we're done.

• 21:55Nancy Glass?

  Something else happened in the beginning of the interview that was a little unusual. The boy walked in carrying some papers.

• 22:04Speaker 06

  I see you brought me something. Can we, can we read about this together? Typically, I can't read that. It's too many sentences. It's too many sentences? So tell me who wrote this.

• 22:18Nancy Glass?

  He explained that his stepmother Christine typed it up for him and printed it out.

• 22:24Speaker 06

  That's fantastic. I will absolutely make sure that I read this and I will. Is it, is this something that I can share with the people that are helping me do my job?

• 22:36Nancy Glass?

  On the video, you can see the boy nod in agreement. Wendy then placed the paper down on the table in front of them and changed topics.

• 22:45Speaker 06

  Tell me what you're here today to tell me all about. It's basically in the paper. Okay.

• 22:53Nancy Glass?

  It seemed unusual that he came into this interview with a typed up agenda. We went back to our expert, Cassandra Baca, to see if, generally speaking, it was unusual for a child to bring in a typed up agenda to a forensic interview.

• 23:10Speaker 06

  Through my experience, it is not very common for a child to come in with a printed out agenda. I have heard of it occurring and I can see how depending on the child, it might help them understand a timeline better, for example, like a chronological timeline of this is the first time something happened, then this happened. And I could also see it as a way for the child to feel in control of their story as well, meaning that they want to make sure that they tell everything that happened.

• 23:46Nancy Glass?

  In this case, the boy didn't bring a timeline of events. It read more like a list of grievances against his mom. In fact, there were 22 numbered items on the boy's agenda. Things like how he got in trouble and had his Xbox taken away, how he would lock himself in his room so he wouldn't get into trouble. But his agenda wasn't all about Cindy. He also included things about Kenny.

• 24:13Speaker 06

  Number six says milking the cow. Tell me about that.

• 24:19Nancy Glass?

  The boy said there was a time when he and Kenny were watching funny animal videos on Kenny's phone and an inappropriate ad popped up.

• 24:28Speaker 06

  So you were watching funny videos with Kenny? And then the ad popped up. And then the ad popped up. Okay, what did Kenny do? Um, Kenny said, I'm sorry you have to see that. Could hope you never see this again. Okay. You wrote on number 11, mommy makes us keep secrets. Tell me about those secrets.

• 24:52Speaker 06

  She says what happens at mom's stays at mom's. What happens at dad's stays at dad's. Okay.

• 25:00Speaker 06

  You read on here, don't tell mom or court, but can we reevaluate and do my final decision for where I want to live? Tell me about that.

• 25:09Nancy Glass?

  The boy, who had just turned nine, explained that he was creating a checklist so he could make his final decision on where he wanted to live. He said if there was a day his mother was bad, then he'd take away a day she was allowed to see him.

• 25:27Speaker 06

  If she's been bad for those schedule, I'm gonna probably take one day away.

• 25:35Nancy Glass?

  Around the 45-minute mark, Wendy took the boy's agenda and stepped out of the room.

• 25:42Speaker 06

  I'm gonna take a break. You can think of any questions that you might have for me and I'll come back with more questions in just a minute, okay?

• 25:48Nancy Glass?

  When Wendy returned, she asked more about Kenny.

• 25:53Speaker 06

  Has Kenny touched your penis?

• 25:56Nancy Glass?

  The boy said Kenny did touch it once when it was hurting. He felt like something had gotten into it and that Kenny plucked a tiny rock out of it.

• 26:07Speaker 06

  Okay, tell me how the little rock got in your penis.

• 26:10Nancy Glass?

  He said it was probably from a fall.

• 26:13Speaker 06

  Okay. Before you came here from steamboat,

• 26:18Speaker 06

  did you talk to anybody about coming here today? My dad and my stepmom. Okay, and tell me what they told you. They told me that these people can change your life and that they can change things and that they can keep a secret from your mom. Okay. And the court. And they have a question for you. I am, you can ask me. Are these people legally allowed to make a decision for me?

• 26:47Nancy Glass?

  Again, this question was quite advanced for nine-year-olds. He asked Wendy if the people who were watching in the other room were legally allowed to make a decision for him.

• 26:59Speaker 06

  Um, they do make decisions, but I'm not sure exactly what decisions they have the ability to make.

• 27:08Nancy Glass?

  Right at the one-hour mark, the boy brought up the wedgie. It was the first time it was mentioned.

• 27:15Speaker 06

  Tell me about the wedgie. Tell me how that happened. Uh, it's a funny joke. Okay.

• 27:22Nancy Glass?

  But here's what's interesting. The boy said he never saw the wedgie happen. He said his twin brother told him about it.

• 27:29Speaker 06

  I heard that Kenny gave him a wedgie.

• 27:34Nancy Glass?

  Keep in mind, his twin brother told Wendy that his mom, Kenny, and his sister were in the room and saw the wedgie happen.

• 27:45Nancy Glass?

  That makes the next interview even more interesting.

• 27:49Speaker 06

  Tell me everything that you're here to talk to me today about.

• 27:55Nancy Glass?

  I have no idea why I'm in here. That's the voice of Cindy's daughter. She was 13 at the time. She was the last to speak to Wendy and said she had no idea why she was there.

• 28:08Speaker 06

  People are worried about your brothers. What do you think they're worried about?

• 28:14Nancy Glass?

  I don't know. They look pretty happy to me, like at both houses.

• 28:19Nancy Glass?

  She was less talkative than her twin brothers, and throughout the interview, she sat with her arms folded across her chest.

• 28:28Speaker 06

  Your brother wrote kind of a list of things that worry him and that make him feel unsafe.

• 28:37Speaker 06

  Do you know what is on that list?

• 28:39Nancy Glass?

  No.

• 28:40Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 28:41Nancy Glass?

  Wendy then asked her about the wedgie.

• 28:44Speaker 06

  What do you know about that wedgie?

• 28:46Nancy Glass?

  I never saw it.

• 28:47Speaker 06

  You never saw it? Were you there when it happened?

• 28:51Nancy Glass?

  No, I don't think so.

• 28:52Speaker 06

  Okay. So how did you know that it came from a wedgie?

• 28:55Nancy Glass?

  Because he told me.

• 28:57Speaker 03

  You seem upset.

• 29:01Speaker 03

  Tell me what you're feeling.

• 29:02Speaker 06

  No, I'm just confused.

• 29:04Speaker 03

  Confused? Confused about what?

• 29:08Speaker 06

  Why Dad said, like, where was your brother's safety?

• 29:12Speaker 03

  Okay. I think people are worried about

• 29:18Speaker 03

  your brother's injuries

• 29:21Speaker 03

  and that something happened to him.

• 29:26Speaker 03

  Why would you be worried about that? Or someone be worried about that?

• 29:32Speaker 06

  I don't know. Dad asked if I felt safe at Mom's house and I said, of course. And he asked if I felt safe at his house and I said, yes. And I don't know why somebody would be concerned for

• 29:48Speaker 06

  Well, I understand if they were concerned for, like, our safety.

• 29:51Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 29:53Speaker 06

  But I don't I wouldn't want it. I wouldn't understand, like, he would think that Mom's house wasn't safe.

• 30:07Nancy Glass?

  After taking a short break, Wendy returned and asked the 13-year-old about her brother's alleged injury.

• 30:14Speaker 03

  I know that he said and that everyone else has said that that was caused by Kenny.

• 30:23Speaker 03

  Has Kenny ever touched anyone's body parts?

• 30:28Speaker 06

  Absolutely not.

• 30:30Speaker 03

  Not that you're aware of? Not that anyone has ever said? Not that you've ever seen?

• 30:34Speaker 06

  No.

• 30:35Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 30:35Speaker 06

  Just that kind of dude.

• 30:36Speaker 03

  Okay. Tell me what that means.

• 30:39Speaker 06

  Like, he's really nice and I know that from, like, the bottom of my heart, he would never do that to us. He loves us.

• 30:47Speaker 03

  Okay. How do you know that?

• 30:49Speaker 06

  He shows it. He brings us in like his own children.

• 30:54Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 30:55Speaker 06

  And he's never ever mean to us.

• 30:58Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 30:58Speaker 06

  He just loves us unconditionally.

• 31:02Nancy Glass?

  She added that Kenny was like a father figure to her and treats her mother well.

• 31:08Speaker 06

  I mean, after the divorce, like,

• 31:13Speaker 06

  she's been really unhappy until Kenny came into her life and

• 31:18Speaker 06

  she's really, really happy right now because of Kenny.

• 31:21Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 31:23Nancy Glass?

  After listening to these three interviews, there's definitely some things that don't add up. And it's going to get even more confusing.

• 32:10Speaker 06

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• 33:12Speaker 06

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• 33:25Speaker 06

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• 34:07Speaker 06

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• 34:17Speaker 04

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• 35:00Speaker 06

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• 35:16Nancy Glass?

  Kamala Height is the DHS caseworker who investigated the allegations against Kenny. She watched the children's forensic interviews and the next day she met with Steve, Christine, and Detective Cypher's at the Steamboat Springs PD. Here's audio of Kamala.

• 35:36Speaker 00

  I think what we want to establish and be a little more clear about is, like, when the wedgie incident happened. I also have a nine-year-old telling me about a pretty horrific dream that he had. Is it possible that it truly was just a dream? Yes, absolutely.

• 35:52Speaker 05

  Right.

• 35:53Speaker 00

  He could have been nervous about going to the doctors. And then I will at some point be notifying Cindy of our involvement today and then set up a time to meet with her when she gets back.

• 36:04Nancy Glass?

  And that's what Kamala did. Cindy said that phone call took her by surprise because two days earlier, she spoke with Dr. Fountain's nurse and was assured her son was fine. I'm sitting here listening to a nurse that's trying to say, just relax, it's not a big deal, it's just protocol. This happens a lot, like, kind of thing. So I let it go. On Thursday, I get a call from the caseworker. I didn't know anyone at DHS was involved. All I knew at that point is pediatrician. Cindy said Kamala explained that she was investigating a wedgie and that she wanted the children to stay with Steve for the time being. According to court documents, Kamala wrote in her notes that Cindy was frustrated during their initial phone call.

• 36:49Nancy Glass?

  I was like, why is everybody overreacting about a wedgie in the first place? Kids get wedgies all the time. So I was like, this is weird. This whole thing is weird. What are they not telling me?

• 37:00Nancy Glass?

  By the time they had that phone call, Kamala had already interviewed the boy. And according to court transcripts, Kamala said the boy asked multiple times if his father, who was in a separate room, could join them to help him remember things. Eventually, Steve did join them. And according to her notes, the boy wondered if Kenny used a neutralizer on him so he wouldn't remember what happened to him, just like in the movie Men in Black. The following day, Steve brought his son to Kamala's office for a second interview. According to the transcript of that interview, the boy's story had escalated.

• 37:44Nancy Glass?

  Now he claimed that Kenny shoved something up his bottom. In fact, he blurted that out the moment he walked into Kamala's office. He said he didn't feel safe at his mom's house and was scared to return there. So how and why did his story change so drastically in just 48 hours? Well, the boy told Kamala his dad was the one who told him that this had happened. The nine-year-old said he was taking a bath earlier that day when his dad told him it probably wasn't the wedgie and that Kenny shoved something up there.

• 38:24Nancy Glass?

  Kamala had her work cut out for her and she had 60 days to do it. Here's more audio from her meeting at the Steamboat Springs Police Department.

• 38:33Speaker 00

  We have a high-risk assessment and that's what this is because of the allegation of sex abuse. So that means that at the end of the assessment, there's going to be a finding for the identified alleged perpetrators. And so if founded is determined, that means that I have evidence that child abuse or neglect occurred. I have to have 51% or more evidence of that.

• 38:54Nancy Glass?

  If the abuse was founded, the perpetrator's name gets entered into a Colorado database, which is different from the Sex Offender Registry.

• 39:03Speaker 00

  If people are wanting to have jobs around kids or volunteer experiences around kids, then the statewide database is used to see if there's any sort of foundant of abuse or neglect. And I also have the findings of inconclusive, meaning like, I do believe that it happened, something happened, but I don't have the evidence, or unfounded, which is it didn't occur.

• 39:26Nancy Glass?

  Generally speaking, Kamala's assessment involves speaking with the parents and children, gathering collateral information like police reports and medical reports. She also might speak with the child's teachers and/or other family members, all within 60 days. In Cindy and Kenny's case, Kamala's deadline was right around Cindy's 50th birthday.

• 39:50Nancy Glass?

  I felt really confident going to my birthday. And then she put her report out and I was stunned.

• 40:02Nancy Glass?

  A voice actor will read those findings. With respect to Cindy, the allegations of emotional abuse of the children were founded. With respect to Mr. Kenny Hamp, the allegations of physical and sexual abuse of one of the twins

• 40:16Speaker 06

  And sexual abuse of the other twin were founded.

• 40:22Speaker 06

  We're just like, are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? They give you this little brief that says founded, but they don't tell you why. They don't give you any detail. And I immediately fired back. I said, we're having a meeting ASAP. Put me on your calendar. We need to talk about this.

• 40:42Nancy Glass?

  Kenny said when he read that report, he broke into tears.

• 40:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. Child abuse and especially sexual is the ultimate sin. It's the worst of the worst. So being accused of all that, you know, it was pretty crazy. It was just unconceivable. It was a horror film.

• 41:05Nancy Glass?

  The DHS findings meant there were only two options. The children were abused by Kenny, or they were being manipulated into making these claims. Cindy and Kenny believed it was the latter.

• 41:19Speaker 02

  I can't believe that they were going forward with this false narrative that Steve was presenting to them. And I can't believe they took the bait. That was going to get appealed. I wasn't going to let that one lie.

• 41:33Nancy Glass?

  Cindy and Kenny immediately appealed the DHS decision. That meant they'd do their own investigation and obtain copies of the forensic interviews with the children, which they hadn't seen, the ones you heard about in this episode. And once Cindy finally got to watch them.

• 41:51Speaker 06

  They interviewed my youngest son multiple times. And I'm reading how many times my son is saying, yeah, my dad is telling me these things. Who wouldn't look at that and say, what's wrong with that? And start interviewing and start talking to dad? And that Christine created an agenda for the other twin to talk about. Like, don't forget to talk about this. Don't forget to talk about that. She's creating an agenda for him to try and bash me. And I'm thinking, okay. It's very clear these kids are coached. I mean, how could you miss that? And I'm like, oh, my gosh, we're being set up.

• 42:27Speaker 02

  We are dealing with a guy that will go to all ends to destroy us.

• 42:31Speaker 06

  He had a mission. Christine had a mission. Why can't anybody else see this?

• 42:39Nancy Glass?

  That's next time on Burden of Guilt.

• 43:05Nancy Glass?

  Thanks for listening. If you're enjoying Burden of Guilt, subscribe, rate and review the series with five stars, hopefully. That helps other people find our show. Are you curious about what the people involved in this look like? Do you want to hear bonus content? Just check out our Instagram account at Glass Podcasts. You can reach out to the Burden of Guilt team at [email protected]. That's [email protected]. Burden of Guilt is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts.

• 43:48Nancy Glass?

  This series is executive produced and hosted by me, Nancy Glass, produced by Todd Gans, also produced by Ben Fetterman and Andrea Gunning. Additional production support provided by Carrie Hartman. Special thanks to our voice actor, Olivia Hewitt. Our story editor is Monique LaBord. Our associate producer is Jade Abdul Malik. Our production manager is Kristin Milkeri. Our iHeart team is Ally Perry and Jessica Krychek. Audio editing by Dean Welsh. Audio mixing and mastering by Anna McLean and Matt Del Vecchio. The Burden of Guilt theme is composed by Oliver Baines.

• 44:32Nancy Glass?

  Music library provided by MyB Music. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeart Radio app or Apple Podcasts.

• 44:58Speaker 04

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• 46:53Nancy Glass?

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• 47:35Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.