Love the Process with Cynthia Erivo

Actress, singer, author and producer Cynthia Erivo joins Michelle and Craig to talk about the creative process behind her new book, what it was like to grow up in South London, and her incredible journey from drama school to Broadway and the big screen. Plus, she shares what viewers can expect in Wicked: For Good, which is out November 21st. The group also answers a listener’s question about finding balance and making more space for a creative life. Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com http://imopod.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Whenever someone says, I want to be like you. And I go, I don't want you to be like me. I want you to be the very best version of you. So whoever you are meant to be is who you're meant to be. You just have to find out how to be the very best version of you.

• 0:19Michelle Obama?

  This episode of IMO is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.

• 0:25Craig Robinson?

  Well, I haven't seen you in a while.

• 0:27Michelle Obama?

  I know. You're looking very rust.

• 0:32Craig Robinson?

  You know, I dressed warmly because of our first guest, because I have so many goosebumps. I was gonna get.

• 0:40Craig Robinson?

  I wanted to make sure.

• 0:41Michelle Obama?

  Make sure you weren't.

• 0:42Craig Robinson?

  Stay warm.

• 0:44Michelle Obama?

  Well, we are in our new IMO studio, listeners and viewers.

• 0:49Craig Robinson?

  Yeah. What do you guys think of the new digs, huh?

• 0:52Michelle Obama?

  It's just, it's a whole new setup. Now, there's still gonna be some changes, I understand. This is just, you know, first week up getting ready for this series of taping. So more to come, but it's really cool. I think our crew loved it. They got more space. They're not all squeezed up.

• 1:10Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 1:11Michelle Obama?

  They're not jammed in some little room somewhere.

• 1:14Craig Robinson?

  Some dining room that we've been using. No, this is, and you know, I've even had the, I had the benefit of seeing the space before it was ready. And it has really shaped up. And, and you know what I can really tell? The sound, doesn't it sound good in here?

• 1:31Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, it sounds good. It sounds professional.

• 1:33Craig Robinson?

  Yes, it sounds very warm.

• 1:35Michelle Obama?

  It sounds like we're making inroads into the podcasting community. It feels like progress. It sounds like progress.

• 1:41Craig Robinson?

  I know.

• 1:42Michelle Obama?

  But yeah, this is a big move. Really proud of the IMO team for, you know, I mean, we've really built a good year of shows. And, you know, let's take a minute to just thank our listeners and our viewers for helping make IMO, our first season, a success. And we're just excited to keep it going, right?

• 2:05Craig Robinson?

  We are, we are. It really feels like home now. IMO, when we're on the set, it feels like we belong here and we're doing some good work and helping folks and.

• 2:17Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. Well, we, we are both excited. You talk about your goosebumps, but. We have got a great guest to help inaugurate our new studios.

• 2:29Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 2:30Michelle Obama?

  And we are both very excited.

• 2:32Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, and my sister is talking about Cynthia Erivo, who is a Grammy, Emmy, and Tony Award winning, and three-time Academy Award nominated actress.

• 2:46Michelle Obama?

  Crazy.

• 2:47Craig Robinson?

  Singer, producer, and now author.

• 2:50Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm, yeah.

• 2:51Craig Robinson?

  Because Cynthia will publish her next book, Simply More, a book for anyone who has been told they're too much, which, how could anybody tell her that she's too much?

• 3:03Michelle Obama?

  Well, you all used to tell me I was too much all the time, which we're gonna talk about that. See there? Okay, Cynthia, you hear what I'm going through.

• 3:13Craig Robinson?

  But her book is coming out November 19, 2025, via Flatiron Books. And Cynthia also stars in soon-to-come-out Wicked for Good. November 21st.

• 3:26Michelle Obama?

  Now, that's some goosebumps, because wicked, boy.

• 3:30Craig Robinson?

  Yes, that was, ugh.

• 3:32Michelle Obama?

  Well, we'll talk all about that, but yes.

• 3:34Craig Robinson?

  Let's get Cynthia out here. Cynthia, please come join us.

• 3:39Michelle Obama?

  Cynthia Erivo in the house.

• 3:40Speaker 00

  Hi, honey boo.

• 3:44Speaker 00

  Thank you for being here.

• 3:48Michelle Obama?

  How are you doing, my friend?

• 3:51Speaker 00

  I'm good, and good. Thank you for asking. How are you?

• 3:53Michelle Obama?

  I'm great. I am great. I'm just happy to see you in the flesh. Feels like I've been with you, because you have been everywhere. You're everywhere.

• 4:05Speaker 00

  A little bit nuts, yeah.

• 4:06Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 4:06Speaker 00

  Yeah. You know, and I've been trying to make sure that I am present whenever I go to places and do things. But it's been a really wonderful year of varied experiences.

• 4:18Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 4:19Speaker 00

  So I feel like all the things I've wanted to do, anything that's been on my bucket list, there are lots of things that I've been able to tick off, so.

• 4:26Michelle Obama?

  We were talking when you arrived to the studio about the, just briefly, about the last time we were together, which was a little while ago. You were just a baby star.

• 4:39Speaker 00

  Still in the color pencil on stage. That's right, yeah.

• 4:43Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, it was the, if I remember, it was the United Nations Summit. In September was, what year was it? Was it 2016? So it was our last, one of our last gatherings. And I would host the spouses of the world leaders. And, you know, we, as a part of the, I don't know, entertainment of showing off our country, we decided to do some partnerships with Broadway.

• 5:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:16Michelle Obama?

  And so a couple of the big shows at the time came and performed. And Cynthia sang, "I am here."

• 5:23Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 5:24Michelle Obama?

  And, oof, killed it. Killed it, left everybody in tears. But that was, I got a chance to hug you.

• 5:32Speaker 00

  Yes, we still have that picture.

• 5:34Michelle Obama?

  I do too.

• 5:35Speaker 00

  Oh, my goodness.

• 5:36Michelle Obama?

  I do too.

• 5:37Speaker 00

  I do, I do.

• 5:39Craig Robinson?

  Well, we're gonna talk about a whole bunch of things. But I want to talk about your book.

• 5:45Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 5:46Craig Robinson?

  And I wanna, my first question is, it just being so accomplished. What prompted you to write your book now as opposed to some other time?

• 5:58Michelle Obama?

  Like when you were 70.

• 6:01Speaker 00

  Well, because I knew that I wasn't gonna be writing a biography necessarily. Because I didn't want it to be that, because I do want to write that when I'm 70. That's, that is for then. But I, I think I, I realized I had learnt a lot up until this point. And I, I think I'd been writing so many speeches and giving speeches. And, and they, they kept connecting with people that I thought, if I could find a place to just explain and share my thoughts and feelings and, and lessons that I've learnt up to this point, that might be really helpful. Because it seems that when I Put some of that, impart some of that in the speeches. It connects. So I thought, well, if I can just put it in one place where everyone can have a listen, not just the people in the room.

• 6:45Speaker 00

  That way I can share a little bit of insight. Not necessarily a how to, but how I did.

• 6:51Craig Robinson?

  Mm hmm.

• 6:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:52Michelle Obama?

  That's what makes this project so special. Simply more.

• 6:57Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 6:57Michelle Obama?

  Um, because it isn't a memoir. Uh, it's, it's really, it's, it's, it's like getting a peek at your diary.

• 7:05Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 7:05Michelle Obama?

  Um, just sort of walking through your life and how you've thought about things.

• 7:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:10Michelle Obama?

  Um, and I, I think it's important for listeners and viewers to understand that this book is really, um, it, it's a, it can be a workbook.

• 7:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:19Michelle Obama?

  In life.

• 7:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:20Michelle Obama?

  And I love the way at the ends of each chapter.

• 7:22Speaker 00

  There's always a question.

• 7:23Michelle Obama?

  There's a question, there's a, there's a message. Um, Craig noticed because he read the book too.

• 7:30Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 7:30Michelle Obama?

  Uh, that there's also poetry.

• 7:33Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 7:33Michelle Obama?

  You know, which is just hearing your thought process, your creative thought process. It's really a beautiful sharing gift.

• 7:40Speaker 00

  Thank you, thank you. And I wanted it to be that. I, I remember when, when I started, I knew that I wanted it to feel like something you could pass on to people. If you read it and you wanted to give a gift to someone and that, that it felt like a gift. And it's easy to digest, but it also makes you go back and go, actually, I do need to answer that question for myself. Or maybe I haven't thought about that question before, or maybe no one's asked me that question. And so I've put in things that maybe I haven't been asked, but have asked myself.

• 8:10Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 8:10Speaker 00

  Have wanted to ask others.

• 8:12Craig Robinson?

  Um, I, I am so opposite in the creative realm. I mean, I grew up an athlete.

• 8:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:18Craig Robinson?

  And my, and my family's creative. Misha's really creative.

• 8:21Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 8:21Craig Robinson?

  And we've talked about this, like she, she, when she was six years old, she used to write in a spiral notebook, short stories that would.

• 8:31Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, I did.

• 8:32Craig Robinson?

  Would crack our family up. Well, we gotta find them, cause.

• 8:35Michelle Obama?

  We, well, we had them bound and this is the, the trouble with, you know, living your life is, is the first family. There's so many moves and so much of our life was out of our control. I can't find the the book now.

• 8:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:48Michelle Obama?

  Because it was bound with some of the stories and I think it got lost in.

• 8:53Speaker 00

  I hope we find it.

• 8:54Michelle Obama?

  Many, many moves, but yeah.

• 8:56Craig Robinson?

  But high comedy, like we would be sitting as a family and she'd be reading the story. My mom and dad would be laughing hysterically.

• 9:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:05Craig Robinson?

  And I would be more laughing at them laughing.

• 9:08Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 9:09Craig Robinson?

  At her writing.

• 9:10Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 9:10Craig Robinson?

  I didn't really get it at the time.

• 9:14Craig Robinson?

  But that kind of creativity.

• 9:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:17Craig Robinson?

  Is is just awe inspiring to me.

• 9:20Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 9:20Craig Robinson?

  And and I think of it kind of like athletically.

• 9:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:24Craig Robinson?

  How do you practice?

• 9:26Speaker 00

  How do I practice? I think I, well, strangely enough, it's it's for me, it's like training. You do it often. You continue to do it and you try and find ways to better it. You try and find ways to expand. I'm listening to others. I'm reading other things. I'm reading other poetry. I'm, you know, taking in, if it comes to TV and film, I'm looking at other actresses and I'm learning, like educating myself on what there is, just so there's always inspiration. The well is never empty, you know? And I think that's what, because I understand what you mean as an athlete. Because I I think of myself as an athlete as well. And I I know that it takes training to get to the point that you want to get to. And I think that is applied to everything.

• 10:08Speaker 00

  If you, I always say, if I stop using my voice as in to sing, it won't work for me anymore. So every day, there's a little bit of singing. Every day I hum, every day I do a scale, every day I warm up, just so that the next day, if I have to sing a song, my voice is already ready, didn't have to.

• 10:25Michelle Obama?

  See, I would just love to live with you.

• 10:29Michelle Obama?

  Because then I would hear you singing all the time and be like, shh, she's singing again.

• 10:37Michelle Obama?

  I think that's why I can't sing, because if I could sing, I would be singing all the time.

• 10:42Speaker 00

  You see, I've heard this, people say this, but you'd be surprised. Because because you sing so much, because you have to sing. Sometimes those moments where it's silent. You just are. And and and and it's quite, I have music going on in my head all the time. And so the quiet is quite nice, you know, when when you don't have to. And and your voice needs a rest sometimes, just like your body does, yeah.

• 11:05Michelle Obama?

  But we were talking about my childhood and how much, as you could hear, my, my family's support.

• 11:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:13Michelle Obama?

  You know, it, I mean, when you get that positive feedback

• 11:16Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 11:16Michelle Obama?

  from the creative process.

• 11:18Speaker 00

  You keep going, yeah.

• 11:19Michelle Obama?

  You just, you just keep going.

• 11:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:21Michelle Obama?

  And that makes me think of, of your childhood. I mean, something that was just beautiful to, to read about was your amazing upbringing.

• 11:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:32Michelle Obama?

  And you heard the banter that we had about being too much.

• 11:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:36Michelle Obama?

  I mean, when, when you, in your book, you described how you have been described as sometimes

• 11:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:42Michelle Obama?

  too much.

• 11:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:44Michelle Obama?

  It was the same thing for me. You know, too loud, too bossy, too, you know. And it was a joke in our family, but, you know, it was still this feeling of, well, I, I think I'm just fine.

• 11:58Craig Robinson?

  So there she was, bossy.

• 12:00Speaker 00

  But so was I.

• 12:01Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 12:02Craig Robinson?

  Were you?

• 12:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was, I was very bossy.

• 12:04Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, that's what Capricorns, you know. And the other thing I read about, what you said about Capricorn.

• 12:10Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 12:10Michelle Obama?

  It's like, I'm probably like you as a Capricorn. I don't necessarily buy into the, I shouldn't say buy in, I just don't focus on Zodiac.

• 12:20Speaker 00

  Zodiac, yeah, yeah.

• 12:20Michelle Obama?

  And all that, but when I read about a Capricorn.

• 12:23Speaker 00

  You're like, oh.

• 12:24Michelle Obama?

  I'm like, oh, yeah, that is me.

• 12:27Michelle Obama?

  Right a lot and, you know, other people being a little bit mad because you're right.

• 12:31Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 12:32Michelle Obama?

  And then sometimes that's the too much.

• 12:35Speaker 00

  People don't necessarily like, well, because we're observers. We see a lot, we pay attention to a lot, we listen and don't necessarily speak. So you, if you're really paying attention to a Capricorn, you'll see what they're thinking on their face because they won't necessarily say it out loud until it's necessary to say it out loud. And when they say out loud, it's been thought about and usually it's right.

• 12:54Michelle Obama?

  There you go.

• 12:56Craig Robinson?

  I can't imagine.

• 12:57Michelle Obama?

  But your, but, but your upbringing, your.

• 12:59Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, yeah, let's get back to that.

• 13:01Michelle Obama?

  Tell us about South London.

• 13:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:04Michelle Obama?

  Stockwell.

• 13:05Speaker 00

  I, you know, I went back there a couple of days ago. I was in London. I was, I filming something and we had, we had a bit of an afternoon off. And so as we were going from one set to another, we had lots of space in between and, which never happened. So I asked if we could drive past my old home in Stockwell. And we parked up for a little bit and just sat and watched and looked. And I talked about where, where I lived and what the place was like and. Um. It was really wonderful, actually. I lived in a little masonette that.

• 13:39Michelle Obama?

  And what's a masonette?

• 13:40Speaker 00

  It's like a a big historic building that's been converted into a a set of flats.

• 13:45Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 13:46Speaker 00

  Um. Just like council building, but uh they've converted it. And I lived with four other neighbours. Um. One lived opposite and then the two lived downstairs. And then it was sort of connected to another building. Um. And we all sort of lived together. If my mum needed help, then she'd go to Tyra, who was next door, or Sharon, or Clive downstairs. Um. And we all sort of looked after each other. Um. And I never, I never felt too much with them. They all were so kind and and sweet. And so there's this really wonderful sense of community within that building.

• 14:25Speaker 00

  And then within my home, my mum kind of knew before I did what I was going to do. And and always just encouraged it. All she really wanted was for me to work as hard as I want, needed to, to get what I wanted. Um. I don't think she ever, uh, nothing is a surprise to her.

• 14:44Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 14:45Speaker 00

  All of this isn't surprising to her at all. Um. And she, which is why she's sort of in her element currently, because she's sort of like, well, I knew it was something was gonna happen. It was, there was no choice. At eighteen months in my, in a baby book, she kept a baby book for myself and my sister. And it sort of marks uh milestones when I first started walking, when I first started speaking. Uh, when I first had literally solid food, anything. But also she put in there what she thought I would be. And uh at eighteen months, she thought I would be a singer and an, and a doctor, both.

• 15:19Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 15:20Speaker 00

  Singer and.

• 15:21Michelle Obama?

  Did she say, what did she see in you at eighteen?

• 15:23Speaker 00

  She said she hums when she eats.

• 15:25Michelle Obama?

  Wow. Hmm. On, on key.

• 15:29Speaker 00

  Comes when she eats. Will be a singer or doctor. Because I was also good at like picking information up and and I would like play write and it might be scribbled, but I was still really interested in work and I still write in cursive.

• 15:45Michelle Obama?

  When did you start getting feeling these messages of you're too much? Because it wasn't happening in your

• 15:52Speaker 00

  No, it was when I went to school.

• 15:54Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 15:54Speaker 00

  When I went to school, I think first at primary school, towards the latter part of it, that's when I started like feeling, oh, I guess, I guess this I got I'm doing too much, I'm too loud, I'm too bossy, I talk too much, all of those things. Because I was never told I'd talk too much. My mom never told me that. My mom never told me not to ask questions, so I would ask all the questions and she would answer them. And I was always curious and I wanted, I knew how to cook by the time I was 11, like because I was always in the kitchen with her, like all of those things. So by the time I got to school, it was very odd because now all of a sudden the things I had learned didn't make sense and people wanted less of it.

• 16:38Speaker 00

  And that's, that's, I think, the first time that I thought, oh, I don't, I don't fit necessarily. But I think I was so stubborn that I didn't want to. I didn't try to.

• 16:52Michelle Obama?

  It's like, I'm good.

• 16:53Speaker 00

  I'm fine.

• 16:53Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, what's wrong with you people? Sounds familiar.

• 16:58Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 16:58Michelle Obama?

  It's like, you guys need to get your acts together.

• 17:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:02Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, why are you so insecure, right?

• 17:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 17:04Craig Robinson?

  Why aren't you doing more, actually?

• 17:06Speaker 00

  Yeah. It was, I was when, it was always when I was in a class, I remember there was a mathematics class I was in. And I, I didn't understand the equation that was being asked of us. So I just asked the question, I don't understand what this is, can you please explain it to me? I, I don't understand why this is happening here. And I, I just kept asking what I didn't understand. And so they moved me out of the class. So what that meant was that I was falling behind because I wasn't able to be in the class that I was meant to be in. And all it was, was that I was asking too many questions and she thought I was talking too much.

• 17:50Craig Robinson?

  This segment is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, where progress isn't just in a brand's name. It's what they stand for. Because owning a home is just the beginning of the journey. You know, when I think about balancing a career and family and personal life, it reminds me of shifting from investment banking to coaching.

• 18:16Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 18:16Craig Robinson?

  You know, I remember you and I talking about it. And it took being organized. It took planning, you know, it took courage. But, but most of all, I had to create a new sort of paradigm for me to live in, using the tools that I had learned from banking.

• 18:36Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 18:36Craig Robinson?

  And it's just like when you're buying a new home.

• 18:41Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 18:41Craig Robinson?

  You know?

• 18:42Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 18:42Craig Robinson?

  You, you, you have to plan, you have to shift gears. It helps you build a foundation for your family.

• 18:49Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 18:49Craig Robinson?

  To build equity, for your family to build a future.

• 18:52Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 18:53Craig Robinson?

  What were some of the unexpected benefits and challenges of homeownership?

• 18:58Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah, the challenges are that the home belongs to you. It is yours. No longer do you have a superintendent you can call, you know, when, you know, when something breaks, you've got to know how to fix it. You've got to develop your own sort of cadre of support staff, you know, a good plumber. Now, we both lived in condominiums. The beauty of the first condominium we bought was that it was a part of an association, unlike you. So there was a, you know, sort of a general management office that we could go to, which helped us in that transition. But then when we went on to buy our first standalone home,

• 19:42Michelle Obama?

  you know, we learned pretty fast that, you know, having a house is a big responsibility. You know, you want to keep it nice. It's not just what's happening on the inside, but it's what's going on on the outside. Tuck pointing, all the unglamorous things like fixing. Your roof and mowing the lawn. But at the same time, you you find that it's all worth it. You are making an investment in something that you will own. You know, so all that hard work. What we learned was equity that was ours. We we built that equity and it was ours to keep forever and ever. What about you?

• 20:19Craig Robinson?

  Well, I would echo everything you said.

• 20:24Craig Robinson?

  But one of the real benefits of having a condo was that we didn't have as much as you do with a regular home. So when you're a first time home buyer, you're not bombarded with the lawn and the tuck pointing and and refinishing the roof. Now, you paid an assessment to to take care of that stuff. But, you know, if I had to do all of that stuff, I would have been writing a check for every single thing like you do when you own a home. But to your point about building equity, you know, I was, I dad told me when we first were thinking about buying a home, he said, you know, if I had bought a home earlier,

• 21:07Craig Robinson?

  I would have reached as far as I could and caught up to the payments. Like buy more house than than you can afford and you'll you'll you'll grow into it. Because that power of equity, that investment you talked about was such a huge benefit to to him at the age of, you know, forty something when he first bought his place and and to us when we were in our twenties. So staying in your home is just as important as getting in. And that means being prepared for what comes next. It's not always easy, but you don't have to do it alone. Progressive can help you navigate the complexities of homeownership.

• 21:52Craig Robinson?

  From helping you learn how to manage unexpected expenses to home maintenance tips, Progressive offers expert tools and resources, not to mention homeowner insurance plans to help you stay steady and secure. With over $7 million invested in 2024 towards housing initiatives and new offerings like the Up Payment Program, Progressive is committed to helping homeowners like you stay rooted and thrive for generations to come.

• 22:25Craig Robinson?

  Homeownership isn't about getting in the door. It's about protecting what you work so hard for. If you're looking for expert advice, financial tools, and the resources you need to maintain your home and your peace of mind, visit progressive.com/openedthehouse. Because when it comes to holding on to your home and everything it represents, Progressive Insurance is here to help you stay the course.

• 22:59Craig Robinson?

  So your mom saw that light in you.

• 23:01Speaker 00

  She very much did, yes.

• 23:02Craig Robinson?

  At 18 months, she wrote down,

• 23:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:04Craig Robinson?

  the doctor singer.

• 23:06Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 23:07Craig Robinson?

  When did Cynthia know Cynthia was going to be that person? Because I think for a lot of young people, they don't have the confidence of pushing through that first level of rejection.

• 23:23Speaker 00

  Resistance.

• 23:24Craig Robinson?

  However you want to put it. For you, when was that where you were like,

• 23:28Speaker 00

  I had a couple of moments. Yeah, I had a couple of them. There was, when I was five, I, it's interesting. I always start with this because it was so uncomplicated for me when I had that age. I'd been asked to sing Silent Night for a Nativity play. I was playing a shepherd. So I still to this day don't know why they asked me. And I think it's because I had the confidence to do it. That's, I don't even think they thought I had a great voice. I think I just wasn't shy. And I, and I remember singing the song. And I remember seeing smiling faces. And I remember people clapping afterwards. And I knew, and I understood that that was a measure of joy that people had experienced

• 24:13Speaker 00

  that came from me. And it was that clear. Okay, well, I want to keep doing that. Whatever that is, that makes people.

• 24:23Speaker 00

  Joyous, respond in that way. I would like to continue doing it. I think it wasn't until I was about eleven that I really knew that I had something. Um, I was really good at English and I, I was really creative and I was writing all these stories and uh, I was singing on the playground and people kept asking me to sing. So I would sing with like a couple of friends and we would be on the playground. It would be us and they would come and we could do little shows. And then I went to like a little, um, I guess it was like a, a performing arts sort of extracurricular, short term thing. And we, we did a play and I remember being able to imagine everything around me. And that sort of was that moment where everything clicked. Oh, I'm good at this.

• 25:08Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 25:09Speaker 00

  This is what I meant to do.

• 25:11Michelle Obama?

  And that was at eleven?

• 25:12Speaker 00

  That was about eleven. And, but then you start to, you, you explore it and think, well, how, how far can I go it, it with all of it? And I've had different moments in my life where it's been reconfirmed. Even when I've had the little doubt, then it's been reconfirmed again. And, and one of those moments is when I had a strange moment when I was about eighteen, where I just stopped singing.

• 25:36Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 25:36Speaker 00

  I don't know what it was, but I had, it was, it's very hard to, to sort of get yourself into, into the business. And I think I had, I think I had sort of lost a little bit of my spark. And my mom realized I wasn't singing and she just wa, she like walked past one day randomly on the way to the kitchen. Um, and she said, I hope you're still singing.

• 26:00Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 26:01Speaker 00

  Didn't say anything else.

• 26:02Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 26:03Speaker 00

  Still singing, aren't you? I said, um, well, I guess, I guess I am.

• 26:10Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 26:12Speaker 00

  Because I think it was just the, just the fact that she had noticed.

• 26:15Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 26:16Speaker 00

  Sort of woke me up. That it wasn't just a thing that made everybody happy. It was something that made that made her happy too. It like it's something that connected with her.

• 26:27Craig Robinson?

  Parenting right there. She put some pressure on you.

• 26:30Michelle Obama?

  I mean, that was, we call that jujitsu parenting.

• 26:34Craig Robinson?

  She knew what she was doing.

• 26:35Michelle Obama?

  It's like, you know, and you just bow.

• 26:38Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 26:38Michelle Obama?

  And say, thank you.

• 26:40Speaker 00

  Thank you. Thank you very much.

• 26:42Craig Robinson?

  What does it feel like to be so good and so many things? Because again, I come from the sports side and the male side. We're all dying to be the Michael Jordan or the Lionel Messi. Or we want to be the best of the best.

• 27:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:00Craig Robinson?

  And it's really, no one can be.

• 27:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, because everyone's themselves. That's why.

• 27:08Craig Robinson?

  Say that again, please.

• 27:09Speaker 00

  No one can be Michael Jordan or Lionel Messi because they already exist.

• 27:13Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 27:14Speaker 00

  Michael Jordan exists.

• 27:15Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 27:15Speaker 00

  So does Lionel Messi.

• 27:16Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 27:17Speaker 00

  That is for them. What it is, and I have to say this a lot to to younger people is that whenever someone says, I want to be like you. And I go, I don't want you to be like me. I want you to be the very best version of you. So whoever you are meant to be is who you're meant to be. You just have to find out how to be the very best version of you. Because I'm already me. I exist already. And I don't know, and I've never thought about being so good at many things. Because I think I'm a constant student.

• 27:48Michelle Obama?

  Work in progress.

• 27:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm always learning.

• 27:50Craig Robinson?

  Can you talk a little bit about that process for you so that our listeners can get a feel of it?

• 27:55Speaker 00

  If you think of it like a mountain, but it's constantly growing. You can only see each peak from where you are.

• 28:05Michelle Obama?

  You think you've hit the top and it's like, oh, there's another mountain.

• 28:09Speaker 00

  There's another one. And that doesn't necessarily mean that this is a mountain of difficulties. It's just another set of things that you have to learn. And you have to that you have to explore. So you get to that peak and you go, well, there is the choice to stay here. Because it would be quite nice and the view is really lovely from here. I could just stay. I mean, it's beautiful here. I can stay here. It's delightful. The air is lovely. It's great. I can just be here. I've got my supplies. I don't really need to go anywhere.

• 28:37Michelle Obama?

  Got you, thermos.

• 28:38Speaker 00

  However, yeah, my tea's still hot. It's great. However, what is up there?

• 28:46Speaker 00

  The choice is, can I stay here? Yes. Do I want to know what's up there?

• 28:51Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 28:51Speaker 00

  Yes. Well, then I have to scale it then.

• 28:54Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 28:55Speaker 00

  And, and that's what it feels like.

• 28:56Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 28:57Speaker 00

  You can be good at any number of things. You can be better at any number of things. You can be amazing at any number of things, but that keeps going to. I don't ever think you ever get to the real true peak.

• 29:10Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 29:11Speaker 00

  Because if you do, then what's the point? Then you have to stop.

• 29:14Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 29:14Speaker 00

  And I, I don't think I ever want to be the person that has learned everything and knows everything.

• 29:19Michelle Obama?

  Right.

• 29:20Speaker 00

  Because then I, and there's nothing left to learn. There's nothing left to explore, nothing left to find. And I'm constantly finding new things. I'm constantly rediscovering myself as a performer. I'm constantly learning new skills. My voice, for me, is one of those things that keeps proving to me that there's more to learn.

• 29:37Michelle Obama?

  So much of learning are these peaks of development.

• 29:40Speaker 00

  Right.

• 29:41Michelle Obama?

  And it, that require failure and learning and wisdom. That there's no way you can have, you can't skip a step.

• 29:48Speaker 00

  No.

• 29:49Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 29:49Michelle Obama?

  Um, and, and, you know, learning to find the joy in that process.

• 29:54Craig Robinson?

  That's the, that's it. And that's what young people today, I'm just speaking to my son who happens to be here.

• 30:03Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 30:03Craig Robinson?

  You have to love.

• 30:05Speaker 00

  The process. And I love it.

• 30:09Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 30:09Speaker 00

  I really do.

• 30:10Craig Robinson?

  It's clear.

• 30:11Speaker 00

  I, I really, I really have found joy and enjoyment in the learning process. The doing is, is like the extra cherry on top.

• 30:20Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 30:21Speaker 00

  The bit before where I can figure things out, I'm learning and decide, how do I, well, how am I going to do this? How did this work?

• 30:27Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 30:28Speaker 00

  Maybe I'll do it like that. Maybe I'll do this song here, or I'll take this song apart. And that for me is where the creative process actually really lives.

• 30:36Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 30:37Speaker 00

  Because the, the, the thing that's complete is, is what comes from the creative process.

• 30:42Craig Robinson?

  Right. Right.

• 30:43Michelle Obama?

  And, oh, I'm sorry.

• 30:44Craig Robinson?

  I want to, and, and we can go back if, if I'm, because I'm changing gears a little bit because I'm thinking about this love in the process.

• 30:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:52Craig Robinson?

  I I'm I'm getting the vibe that you were coming up straight singing.

• 30:56Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 30:56Craig Robinson?

  And then now you switch over to drama and acting. And I wanted to hear about how that.

• 31:03Michelle Obama?

  Was that a switch?

• 31:04Speaker 00

  It wasn't a switch. It wasn't a switch. I I I loved I loved acting. So I my first sort of like taste of acting was when it was about eleven. And then I started getting into like plays and school shows.

• 31:15Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 31:16Speaker 00

  When I was about fifteen. Um, but I just didn't know it was possible.

• 31:21Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, you hadn't seen it before.

• 31:22Speaker 00

  Exactly. So I I I kept trying again when you don't have a there's no playbook. There's no instruction booklet. There's no blueprint. So you don't really know how to even begin to go about it. And no one had mentioned drama school at my school to me. So I didn't even know it was an option.

• 31:39Craig Robinson?

  Mm hmm.

• 31:39Speaker 00

  So I I had we had moved to self to East London by this point. And there was a really there's a lovely theater Stratford Theater Royal.

• 31:50Speaker 00

  Um, that I used to go to. And then I ended up taking sort of like a part time job there. And I worked in every possible spot you could think think of. It was at the.

• 32:02Michelle Obama?

  Ticket sales.

• 32:03Speaker 00

  Ticket sales. I was in Usher. I was at the bar. And wherever you could find, I was there.

• 32:07Craig Robinson?

  Mm hmm.

• 32:08Speaker 00

  Um, and I started as I was watching these plays and actors come in and out. I was really inspired by it. And I I knew I wanted to do I want to do that too. I want to do that. How can I? I remember I asked if I could audition for one of the plays that was going on, the musical that was going on. I was told no. And it really I was really upset because I was like, well, I know I can. I know I can. I know I can. But. I think it was important for me to experience that because it just pushed me to figure out how.

• 32:38Craig Robinson?

  Mm hmm.

• 32:39Speaker 00

  They then had this sort of young actors company thing that they were doing that I discovered. And I was like, I will, I want to do that. So I applied for that, got in, and I realized that.

• 32:51Speaker 00

  When I, on the first day, sort of like the enrollment day, the first day we come in and you're meeting the teachers, you're meeting the tutors. The one, the main tutor who was taking the course was a woman called Rae McKen, who I'd met five years before. So I'm 20 now and I met her when I was 15, doing a youth group production of Romeo and Juliet at the Young Vic. And I had not seen her since then. And this was the first time I was seeing her and she said, well, did you, have you applied? Are you gonna train? And I didn't know what she meant.

• 33:25Michelle Obama?

  What was that?

• 33:26Speaker 00

  I didn't know, I said to her.

• 33:27Michelle Obama?

  Because it was a path that was unknown to you.

• 33:29Speaker 00

  Completely unknown. I literally said to her, what do you mean? What, what does that mean? Why are you going to, you're gonna go to drama school? What's drama school? That's a thing? What, what do you mean?

• 33:41Craig Robinson?

  There's a school for acting?

• 33:43Speaker 00

  And that's, you can go to school for acting, you can go and train to be an actor. I said, huh. I didn't, I had no idea. She said, well, I think you should, I think you should train. I said, okay. I think you should go to the Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts. I said, she called it RADA and I didn't know what that was. I said, what's RADA? She said, the Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts. I said, no, I'm not gonna get into the Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts.

• 34:10Michelle Obama?

  That sounds, that sounds like I'm not.

• 34:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm not gonna get into that place.

• 34:15Michelle Obama?

  I'm sorry.

• 34:16Speaker 00

  I'm not, I'm not gonna get in.

• 34:17Michelle Obama?

  What's your name? Marie Kay, what was it?

• 34:19Speaker 00

  Rae, Rae, I'm not gonna get in.

• 34:20Michelle Obama?

  Love you.

• 34:21Speaker 00

  I'm not, love you, love you so much, I'm not gonna get in. So I'm not gonna do it. She said, well, if you don't apply, you can't do this course.

• 34:27Michelle Obama?

  Oh, that's a good one.

• 34:29Speaker 00

  Don't, don't try me with a challenge.

• 34:31Craig Robinson?

  Yeah. We clearly are figuring that out.

• 34:33Speaker 00

  Don't tell me I can't do something because then I'm going to.

• 34:46Craig Robinson?

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• 36:02Michelle Obama?

  So you get into RADA.

• 36:03Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 36:04Michelle Obama?

  And it wasn't all smooth sailing. The story that you write about in the book is that people didn't appreciate your gift because it was a majority traditional

• 36:21Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 36:21Michelle Obama?

  white

• 36:22Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 36:23Michelle Obama?

  institution.

• 36:24Speaker 00

  Very much so.

• 36:25Michelle Obama?

  And there were many microaggressions that you faced in the process. Can you talk a bit about that experience and how you persevered?

• 36:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, the very first one I faced was actually kind of immediate, which was so insane. I went there and just before I'd gotten into school to start the term, I got a job doing backing vocals for a group. And the reason I was excited about it, yes, it was lovely to go and do backing vocals with this group, but it also was a means to pay for the tuition outright. It would pay for the entire thing. And I asked for permission and she said, no, well, no, I don't think you can. I think it's either you go.

• 37:08Speaker 00

  And do this job and you have to leave or you leave the job and you stay. That was the.

• 37:13Michelle Obama?

  That was the administrator's problem solving, helping a student.

• 37:16Speaker 00

  Correct. Meanwhile, there's another student in my year who is out for two weeks doing a play.

• 37:22Craig Robinson?

  Oh, no.

• 37:24Michelle Obama?

  Oh, the story, the story repeats itself again and again and again.

• 37:29Speaker 00

  Again and again. So, and so I.

• 37:32Michelle Obama?

  Oh, the hypocrisy.

• 37:33Speaker 00

  But then I spent, but I spent the first year paying for it.

• 37:36Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 37:37Speaker 00

  I then spent the first year being punished for that, for wanting to go and do.

• 37:42Michelle Obama?

  Just even asking.

• 37:43Speaker 00

  For asking, because then I go, well, okay, I'm, I need a job. I'm gonna do a job part time, but that part time means I'm in school for Monday to Friday and I'm at work Saturday and Sunday. So by the time I come in on Monday, I'm exhausted and I'm falling asleep in classes. And instead of someone going, are you okay? They go, she's not focused. She doesn't care. So we'll give her the smallest role and we'll just, we'll keep punishing for it. And it just, and it went on for so long. I was thought to be unfocused. And then when they thought I was focusing, they, we did like a musical. And they got the smallest role in the musical and they knew I could sing.

• 38:27Speaker 00

  At this point, it wasn't like a, it wasn't.

• 38:29Michelle Obama?

  A mystery.

• 38:29Speaker 00

  A mystery. I, I could sing. That's, that was my, that was what I did. And it gets to one of those performing nights and then we find out in the daytime that two of the ladies are not very well. And so instead of saying, okay, you stay off, go home, you reassign the roles. They were in and I was asked to sing for them. And, and I, I can't even be mad at the question because I think I just, and I.

• 38:58Michelle Obama?

  I think you can.

• 39:00Speaker 00

  But.

• 39:01Craig Robinson?

  That's mighty big of you.

• 39:02Speaker 00

  But I think I was more, I think to, to this day, I'm still frustrated at the, the. I wish I had known to to say no.

• 39:10Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 39:11Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 39:11Speaker 00

  You know, but the but the lesson in saying yes and doing it is was that I would never do that again. I would never allow my voice to be given to someone else.

• 39:22Michelle Obama?

  To be given to someone else.

• 39:23Speaker 00

  And used that way. I I would be in full control of how my voice is used and and how and whom I use it with and when.

• 39:33Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 39:34Speaker 00

  That was a real lesson. Uh, in sort of like self-confidence and and advocating for oneself and knowing when to say, actually, no.

• 39:42Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 39:43Speaker 00

  Because when I asked about that, it was, well, we didn't think that you needed help. You were really, um, efficient.

• 39:48Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 39:50Speaker 00

  And I was like, well, I would, I really hope that anyone who is efficient doesn't experience that because if they're good at what they do, they should they should be given the opportunity to be good at what they do.

• 40:02Michelle Obama?

  Well, this is the for for listeners, when you hear black folks talk about needing to be twice as good. Um, this is what

• 40:11Speaker 00

  This is, yeah.

• 40:11Michelle Obama?

  The these are the, um, experiences that are not uncommon.

• 40:16Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 40:16Michelle Obama?

  To people of color all over the world. When someone has a preconceived notion

• 40:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:24Michelle Obama?

  of who we are.

• 40:25Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 40:25Michelle Obama?

  Based on difference.

• 40:28Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 40:28Michelle Obama?

  You your need to get through college, the way you had to do it to get through the the program was different.

• 40:35Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 40:36Michelle Obama?

  Your needs were different, and this is why you have to have diverse faculty and administration administrators so that people can look

• 40:45Speaker 00

  Well, maybe she's just

• 40:46Michelle Obama?

  Like, I recognize what this student is going through. Um, and I won't see it as a way, oh, you're, oh, you just want to be a backup singer. It's like, no, you you're trying to eat.

• 40:57Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 40:58Michelle Obama?

  Um, and if you don't have leadership that is diverse enough to be able to see themselves, then you wind up putting students and young people in a position to have to do twice as much

• 41:08Speaker 00

  Right.

• 41:08Michelle Obama?

  to get through.

• 41:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:10Michelle Obama?

  Um, and I, you know, I want to take this moment because there are young people who will not assume be people who loved you, who saw you, see you on Wicked, they see you as Elphaba, they see you as beautiful, and it's important to know.

• 41:25Speaker 00

  It's not easy.

• 41:26Michelle Obama?

  It was not easy because there are microaggressions and there are there are people who don't have full understanding of a broad set of experiences. And it makes it hard.

• 41:38Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 41:39Michelle Obama?

  For people who are other.

• 41:40Speaker 00

  Yeah. I think it was, I think the wonderful thing about being able to write this book is that I get to share that this was not a walk in the park.

• 41:49Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 41:50Speaker 00

  That this was not easy.

• 41:52Michelle Obama?

  Right.

• 41:52Speaker 00

  That to get to this point today here, it has taken a lot. It's been a wonderfully crazy experiential journey of ups and downs.

• 42:05Michelle Obama?

  And I.

• 42:05Speaker 00

  If you couldn't imagine.

• 42:06Michelle Obama?

  I love the way you talk about how hard you work. I mean, and I think that that's a wonderful thing that you have laid out in your book because I, you know, we take, we see the end product of all the work.

• 42:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:21Michelle Obama?

  So you, you, you make it to Broadway.

• 42:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:24Michelle Obama?

  You are in the color purple. You have blown it away.

• 42:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:30Michelle Obama?

  But the one, one thing you, you said, and I don't know whether it was in the book or I heard it on a, in another conversation that you had, but how difficult it is for you to have embodied the role of Seeley.

• 42:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:46Michelle Obama?

  Someone for, for, how long were you on?

• 42:50Speaker 00

  It was four hundred and, I want to say like four hundred and eighty something performances. It was fourteen months.

• 42:58Michelle Obama?

  Fourteen months. And for people to understand, Seeley's character was, was battered and bruised.

• 43:06Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 43:06Michelle Obama?

  And told over and over again, night after night.

• 43:09Speaker 00

  That she was ugly.

• 43:10Michelle Obama?

  That she was ugly, she was unworthy.

• 43:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:12Michelle Obama?

  And you don't realize, yeah, in order to personify that role, you have to.

• 43:17Speaker 00

  Take it in and feel it.

• 43:18Michelle Obama?

  Take it in.

• 43:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:20Michelle Obama?

  And that, that, that is a hard thing to do.

• 43:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:23Michelle Obama?

  To the point where now even singing, I am here.

• 43:26Speaker 00

  I just don't do it very often at all.

• 43:28Michelle Obama?

  Can you talk a bit about that work, what that feels like?

• 43:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:31Michelle Obama?

  Because we see the other end of it. We see the performance and we see your career, but I didn't even think about what it.

• 43:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, because I think people see actors as like you just put something on.

• 43:43Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 43:43Speaker 00

  It's like a costume, you put it on and then you do, you say the words and that's it. But that that's really um one percent of what it is. To to really be able to, and this is what I believe, to really be able to, and I never like it when when other actors are like, just act, just you don't have, none of you is in that in the role. That's not true.

• 44:05Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 44:06Speaker 00

  Because you you are literally the body of this person. You, your body has to take in the character of whoever it is and then give it to to your watcher, to your viewer. And with Seeley, she, she, I really, I love her. And I speak of her like in in present tense because all of these characters, they they are, to me, they're like people. They're like friends who I've met and have some are like distant, some are more present. She is this sort of spark of light who is constantly put down, beaten physically and mentally. Told she's ugly, told she's not worth anything, abandoned, abandoned again, abandoned again.

• 44:51Speaker 00

  And we, I would do this night after night after night. And so after a while, your body doesn't know what that you're pretending.

• 45:01Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 45:02Speaker 00

  And so your body just finds, it sort of short circuits the way to get to wherever you need to get to. And so after like performance two hundred, two hundred and ten or something, I hear the word ugly. And that's, it me, that's, it's me.

• 45:17Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 45:17Speaker 00

  I I hear it.

• 45:19Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 45:19Speaker 00

  Because the the line between myself and the character are, it's so thin that it's almost non-existent. Because it, because that is the short circuit to the character. You have to be able to embody uh who they are and believe the things that are being said of you. And and really hear it so that the reaction is connected and real.

• 45:44Speaker 00

  And that goes for every single character. Hmm. You sort of make a pact with yourself and the character that they are they are allowed to live in you for as long as they need to until the the project is done. The problem is, after the project is done, how do you make space for yourself again?

• 46:06Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 46:06Speaker 00

  That can sometimes be really, really difficult. It takes it takes time to to sort of um distill the character from yourself again and find out what your baseline is. Hmm. Because you're still operating from the baseline of the character sometimes.

• 46:22Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 46:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, it takes takes a lot and sometimes it's it's not just like a mental uh a task. For me, it's very physical as well, depending on how much work needs to happen. It takes training, it takes uh I just did um a film called Kuroshi and that was uh Samurai. And I was training every day for a month uh because that's all I had in order to get to Samurai into my body.

• 46:52Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 46:53Speaker 00

  And Samurai has to be in your body, otherwise it doesn't read. And it it is some of the hardest work I've ever done in in my life, just because it's a completely different way physicality that I haven't used before. And it's the same with flying as Elphaba. You have to get your body has to get used to what it's like to be in a harness in the air when your weight is bearing down on a very thin piece of of uh material, which is uh the harness, which is holding all of your weight.

• 47:20Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. And you talk about the chafing, the you know, the

• 47:24Speaker 00

  The physical burning of your skin.

• 47:26Michelle Obama?

  Burning of your skin as you were singing and flipping and flying.

• 47:29Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 47:30Michelle Obama?

  At the same time.

• 47:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:32Michelle Obama?

  And no one thinks of that, they're just thinking Elphaba!

• 47:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:35Michelle Obama?

  Oh, I'm so happy for you and now I'm all

• 47:38Speaker 00

  The amount of times people are like, oh, I want to fly, it looks so fun. And I'm like, it it's it's fun now because I know how to do it. But at the very beginning, there is a moment when you're in the air where it is not fun at all, where everything hurts. But if you're in the middle of a scene and you need to get to the end of the scene or the middle of a song, you need to get to the end of the song, the pain has to go somewhere else and you have to sing the song. So, yes, it's fun to be in the air, but but after hour ten?

• 48:08Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 48:10Speaker 00

  It's not so funny anymore.

• 48:11Craig Robinson?

  Yeah. Well, I want to go back to The Color Purple.

• 48:14Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 48:14Craig Robinson?

  Quickly here because I heard that you said that you wanted that part in the worst.

• 48:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, I knew it. I knew I was supposed to be doing it.

• 48:23Craig Robinson?

  How did you know you were supposed to be doing it?

• 48:25Speaker 00

  I don't know. I don't know. I, I, I, I knew it was coming and,

• 48:33Speaker 00

  and just something said, you're supposed to do this.

• 48:37Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 48:37Speaker 00

  I just, I, I was so sure. If you ask me what made me sure, I, I, to this day, I cannot tell you. I don't know. I just knew that it was meant to be the thing I was supposed to be doing. I did not know that it was going to Broadway. I did not know what was coming afterwards. I just knew there was a small little play, a musical, coming to this tiny little theater that held only 200 people, and I wanted to do it. It didn't matter what it was paying. It didn't matter where it was. I knew that this was the production I was supposed to be a part of, and I was meant to be doing it. As clear as day.

• 49:12Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 49:13Speaker 00

  Someone said, would you play another character? No, I know it's supposed to be silly.

• 49:16Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 49:17Michelle Obama?

  And you talk about the feeling when you, you, you sing the, the, I am here.

• 49:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:26Michelle Obama?

  And feeling the audience's reaction.

• 49:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:31Michelle Obama?

  You know, it's sort of going back to Silent Night, the shepherd.

• 49:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 49:36Michelle Obama?

  Can you talk about that a bit, what that felt, what it feels like to use your physical self and be able to move people in that way?

• 49:44Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's, it's a real, um, out of body, but really organic feeling. It's like, um, it's kind of like flying, you know? Everything sort of feels like it's connected. When you can feel the audience as it's happening, it's like, it's like true, the truest magic you could possibly imagine. I'm here was one of those moments where you could feel the audience take a breath.

• 50:12Speaker 00

  Like breathe with you because up until that point, they're all like, you can feel the tension in the air. Cause you want her to get to a place where she can say it, where she can do that. And it takes so much, which is why I don't sing it very often because I don't, I don't think that the song is a party trick.

• 50:29Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 50:29Speaker 00

  I think it is the culmination of a journey that this character has had to be on to get to this point. And, and I feel like you can't.

• 50:38Michelle Obama?

  You have to earn it.

• 50:38Speaker 00

  Yeah. I don't feel that you can truthfully do that song unless you know the journey that the character has been on.

• 50:43Michelle Obama?

  It's not, I am here.

• 50:45Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 50:45Michelle Obama?

  I'm here, I'm me, I'm me, I'm here.

• 50:47Speaker 00

  That's right. And so when people like use it just because they want to sing it, it always feels a little false to me because I'm sort of like, I don't know.

• 50:54Michelle Obama?

  Because you were Sealy.

• 50:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:55Michelle Obama?

  And it's like, you didn't live my life.

• 50:57Speaker 00

  Right.

• 50:58Michelle Obama?

  Now, did you feel this, I know, I don't care.

• 51:00Craig Robinson?

  No, no, no, no, go ahead.

• 51:01Michelle Obama?

  Did you feel the same way about Elphaba as you did about Sealy that you knew that this was, this was for me?

• 51:09Speaker 00

  I think I was so frightened of admitting it because I knew so many people were going up for it. But in my heart of hearts, I, I knew that, that I got this woman. I understood this woman. I knew that woman. If it, there wasn't going to be anyone else, you know, it wasn't, there was no other character that I wanted to play in this piece. And it would have been, it was this, it was Elphaba every time.

• 51:31Craig Robinson?

  Can you help us understand the feeling you had when they called you up and said, Cynthia, you got the job?

• 51:38Speaker 00

  I don't even think I had any words. I think I just cried and said, thank you so much. And that was, I was just sobbing into my arms. I just, because I think what I had realized maybe at that point is that, is that actually to get to Elphaba was a really long journey. I had been learning her, I'd been learning, unbeknownst to me, I didn't realize it was happening, but I had been learning this character for a really long time. I knew the songs back to front before I had seen the show. So I knew the songs, I connected with the songs, I understood those songs. And then I went to see the show and thought, oh my gosh, I really, I. There's something.

• 52:17Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 52:17Speaker 00

  And then, and, and then I've been asked to do concerts of this and I do, like, it just kept coming up.

• 52:25Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 52:25Speaker 00

  It kept coming to me. And then, and then to be asked to come and audition was, I knew I wasn't going to leave anything unsaid.

• 52:36Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 52:36Speaker 00

  Or anything in the tank. So I let it all go when I was in that audition room. So to get that call was, I really do think it's, well, it did, it changed my life.

• 52:45Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 52:46Speaker 00

  Um, truly. And I'll never forget the feeling of sort of amazement and speechlessness.

• 52:56Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 52:56Speaker 00

  That happened that day. So I just, I was so grateful. And I, I think there was like a measure of disbelief that something like this had happened and could happen. It's like a dream, a real dream role.

• 53:08Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 53:09Speaker 00

  Was in my lap.

• 53:10Michelle Obama?

  And, and, and, and just, a, a, just a dream experience.

• 53:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:16Michelle Obama?

  Because it in, it, it's ending so well.

• 53:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:20Michelle Obama?

  I mean, you can put all that work into any, you know, um, piece of art and it's not received in the way, you know, you don't, you would have done this no matter what.

• 53:30Speaker 00

  Yes, yeah.

• 53:30Michelle Obama?

  I think I heard you say that in an interview.

• 53:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:32Michelle Obama?

  You would have been, you, you would have put just as much energy into the role, but to have it be so well received.

• 53:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:38Michelle Obama?

  By the, the, the public, people of all ages.

• 53:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:42Michelle Obama?

  What do you think it is about, wicked, about the particular, um, adaptation of it, your performance, um, Ariana's performance?

• 53:54Speaker 00

  I think it's the humanity. I think it's the humanity in it. I think as much as it's this sort of fantastical, magical world, that it's deeply rooted in humanity.

• 54:06Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 54:06Speaker 00

  Each of these characters has a humanness to them.

• 54:10Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 54:10Speaker 00

  They all have a want, they all have a hurt, a pain, um, especially Elphaba, who, and, and it's so, um, so openly on show.

• 54:20Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 54:21Speaker 00

  She's so very vulnerable.

• 54:22Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 54:22Speaker 00

  Uh, that I think people connect to that, like they connect to this otherness that she feels, this. Starting at birth. Yeah, from the beginning. And, and I think to be able to watch it play out in front of you sort of validates anyone who feels that way. That you're not, this is not something you're imagining. It actually is true and, and look at it, watch it happening to someone else. Watch it happening to someone and that someone happens to have my face. And I think that adds to the idea that, oh, well, if she, if she is the one behind the face of this character, then it opens the doors to the experience of the person who's playing it as well. And I think the connection to the people and the characters

• 55:07Speaker 00

  and what everyone else's experience is, has, I think, really exploded this out and open for people. The stories I've had, the connections, the people who have told me what they've been through, how this can, you know, how this has moved them. I, I would, I could be here till the end of the year if I was to tell you all of the stories. And it's really, really amazing.

• 55:42Craig Robinson?

  So what are you most excited about for the next installment now?

• 55:46Speaker 00

  The thing I'm most excited about for the next installment is the, the growth. They're not in school anymore. They're really grown and I'm, I've seen it and I'm really proud of, of the progression. These are grown women. And I think I, I can't wait for people to experience Elba as, as someone who's really in her power. And, and having to deal with what, the decision that she's made, and she does. It's not easy for her, but I think there's something quite wonderful about the way she moves through the space now. She's not apologetic at all. It's kind of wonderful. Yeah.

• 56:27Michelle Obama?

  One thing I, was anything changed for the movie?

• 56:31Speaker 00

  A couple of things.

• 56:32Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 56:32Speaker 00

  But, but maybe not changed, maybe expanded. We just opened up a little bit more. Like, the, the love story between Fierro and Elphaba, that's sort of been expanded. So you can see it more, you can understand it more. It doesn't just sort of happen in, in one song. Because you don't have the time on a stage to, to do all of that. You get to learn a bit more about where, because in the show, Elphaba just sort of goes away for the, a large majority of the second act. And in this, you sort of see where she's been. And you're with her for a little bit and then, and then she sort of like goes away. And I think there's something really lovely about being able to see what world she's created for herself. So that's a little bit different. You just, it's just the expansion of what we, what we know.

• 57:17Craig Robinson?

  I'm very excited.

• 57:18Michelle Obama?

  And let me just tell you, I have a family who are musical cynics. You know, I have some who are like, oh, when do you break out in song? Everybody to a T, bawling, crying, you know, connected in this way, so, I mean, kudos.

• 57:35Speaker 00

  And I have an answer for you on that, because I've heard that answer, I've heard that question before. When do people break out in song? All the time.

• 57:40Michelle Obama?

  I know, I.

• 57:40Speaker 00

  People break out in song all the time. People start singing or humming.

• 57:44Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 57:45Speaker 00

  All the time. When you, if you really pay attention, you'll realize that people do it every day.

• 57:49Michelle Obama?

  And we all have a soundtrack to our lives. I know I do.

• 57:52Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 57:53Michelle Obama?

  I do everything to music.

• 57:55Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 57:55Michelle Obama?

  You know, I.

• 57:56Speaker 00

  You put those headphones on.

• 57:57Michelle Obama?

  And it's like, it gets me ready, I see myself, it's like, dun, dun, da, dun, da, da, I'm here.

• 58:02Speaker 00

  It's, that's what it is. And I think people get so, for some reason, there's this interesting disconnect when you go to a theater like.

• 58:09Michelle Obama?

  And it actually happens.

• 58:10Speaker 00

  Why are you singing out in, in public? Well, because we always do. We actually always do, and we have a connection to music and music is, and, and, and more so. The, a musical is, is, is where you can go to really heighten one sense of emotion.

• 58:29Speaker 00

  Music happens when there's nothing else, when you can't say anything else. We can't say anything else. And often, the song that gets sung is the thing that the person doesn't want anyone to see. So it's the innermost thoughts of whoever is performing.

• 58:44Michelle Obama?

  Oh, I love the way you explain that.

• 58:46Speaker 00

  It's that.

• 58:46Michelle Obama?

  So take that musical cynics.

• 58:50Speaker 00

  There's a place for it, and it's very important. Go and see more of it.

• 58:54Craig Robinson?

  I think my sister is shooting a shot across my bow with that.

• 58:59Michelle Obama?

  No, no, there have been others. There have been others. Before you leave this table and we move on to other things, I just want to tell you how proud I am of how you are showing up in the world as your true, authentic self.

• 59:16Speaker 00

  Thank you very much for saying that.

• 59:17Michelle Obama?

  Which is, I know, a part of that peaking that you had to. And I would love to have you just talk a bit before we go about how you've managed seeing all of yourself.

• 59:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:34Michelle Obama?

  Because I know that there are young people out here who are looking and listening. And, you know, I just want you to

• 59:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:43Michelle Obama?

  talk a bit about that journey.

• 59:45Speaker 00

  The beginning of a journey of trying to be yourself, it takes, it's like trial and error. You know, you really have to be OK with making mistakes and discovering and not quite being comfortable with something and acknowledging when it's not quite comfortable and changing and shifting and being able to distill all the noise that other people tell you about who and what and how you're supposed to be, to find out what you need for yourself. And as I've been doing that slowly, I've sort of been finding little pieces. It's like, you know, treasure hunting, finding the things that make sense to me. Oh, that's what I want to do. Even like someone, like nails. There's something I've been doing since I was 16 years old.

• 1:00:29Speaker 00

  And I wanted to check myself. Like, am I just saying that? No, and I went back to a picture of me when I'm 16, and I have nails. And they are not as long, but they definitely are neck. I've been doing my nails.

• 1:00:40Michelle Obama?

  They're done.

• 1:00:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, they're done. And I realized that that's just something that makes me feel Like I'm done. If I don't have a lick of makeup on, but I have my nails done, I feel like I'm done. So that's just something that's like a, I don't know, it's not, it's a part of who I am. It's something that tells a story. It's another canvas for someone else to, to create, but it's also a way to express stories. And it's the same with my, the, I shaved my head, but I've been making my, getting my hair shorter and shorter and shorter. At this point, since I was twenty three.

• 1:01:17Speaker 00

  And I, I knew it was because I just wanted people to see my face. That, that I had this obsession with being able to just be, show up. Like nothing, nothing hiding anything, or just everything on, on show. And it got progressively shorter and shorter and shorter. And when I got to wicked, my scalp needed to be green. Someone said, oh, I thought that was just sort of CGI. No, my actual scalp underneath the wig is green. And the only way I could do that is if I shaved my head. So I shaved my head and that green is on my scalp. But when I took the wig off and the makeup off, I really liked what I saw.

• 1:01:53Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, there you go.

• 1:01:54Speaker 00

  So I just stuck with it. And at first I would have someone else help me shave it. And then I was just like, just teach me how to do it, I'll do it myself. So I shaved my head myself.

• 1:02:03Craig Robinson?

  Welcome to the club.

• 1:02:04Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:02:06Speaker 00

  And so all it is, is this sort of culmination of all the things that have been, that have been who I am for a really long time. And people have started to sort of accept they're not changing. They just are what they are and they're a part of her. And I've, I've just wholly accepted all of those things and who I am. Because I think they, they make me who I, I'm comfortable as that person, you know? So I was saying to my makeup artist Joanna today, I think sometimes people look at me and think I've, I've put, like I might be. And there was a moment where I think people thought I was putting it on as costume. But now I think people are realizing, oh, it's not costume. It's just how she is every single day. When you meet me in the street and I've got no makeup on, I'm still the same. I still have blows of piercings. I still have my nails done. It's not, you're not meeting another person completely.

• 1:02:50Speaker 00

  It's just, that's how I exist. And I've gotten to a place where I like to just exist as me.

• 1:02:56Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:02:57Speaker 00

  So when you meet me on a red carpet, or you meet me in the street, they're not two different people. It's one person.

• 1:03:03Michelle Obama?

  It's that part.

• 1:03:03Speaker 00

  Who just happens to be wearing different clothes.

• 1:03:05Michelle Obama?

  And isn't it easier to keep up with?

• 1:03:06Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:03:07Michelle Obama?

  You know, it's like, isn't it easily easier? To be able to show up as yourself every single place.

• 1:03:13Speaker 00

  It's lovely.

• 1:03:14Michelle Obama?

  You don't have to remember the person you told them you were.

• 1:03:18Speaker 00

  It's so lovely.

• 1:03:19Michelle Obama?

  It is the key to authenticity. When people say, you're so authentic. And it's like, no, absolutely. This is exactly who I am.

• 1:03:27Craig Robinson?

  And we are ready for our question from our listener.

• 1:03:31Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:03:32Speaker 03

  Hi, Michelle and Craig. My question is about how to find balance. I have a busy job. I'm very close with my family. I work to keep a close group of friends and I try to date when I can. But something I've been struggling with for a while is that I really want to have more of a creative life. I've always loved to paint and write, and I want to make those elements into something bigger in my life. But I find myself feeling like there are truly not enough hours in the day to stay on top of all of my obligations and also build a space for me to focus on my art. I'm now in my mid 30s and starting to panic that if I don't figure out a sustainable way to have a creative life, I'm going to lose this part of myself.

• 1:04:14Speaker 03

  How do you create that space for yourself to do what you really want to do day to day, especially when you're very busy or torn between a lot of different responsibilities? Courtney in Portland.

• 1:04:26Speaker 00

  Hello, Courtney.

• 1:04:27Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 1:04:28Speaker 00

  I have a couple of thoughts about this. I feel that there sounds like there's an organizational problem going on. So like scheduling.

• 1:04:37Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:04:38Speaker 00

  And it sounds like you're spreading yourself thin for everybody else and not really making any time for yourself. So I would maybe sometimes say, hey, I can't come to this thing that you want me to come to because I'm gonna be working on something for myself. And I think it sounds like not wanting to let other people down or not wanting to say no to other people, which is really tough. But it's really great in the end. It will actually, I think it will help Courtney, you Courtney, if sometimes those family obligations and those friend obligations don't have you at them. Maybe sometimes you, you, you don't go to those things. And that you take those, those times when you're not at those things to, to care for yourself.

• 1:05:21Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:22Speaker 00

  And to pour into the thing that you love. Because if you, if you're five years away from now, if you head away from this moment, five years away from now, and you look back and you go, I didn't make any time for myself, or what do I have to show for it? But everyone else seems to be really, really happy around me. You live, you'll, you'll regret it. Whereas if you spend the time now on the things you love for yourself, you will actually be better for the people around you. You will actually be a better person, a more joyous person, a more satisfied person for, for the folks that you love. And they probably will enjoy that version of you more too.

• 1:06:06Michelle Obama?

  And, and it's a particularly good, important question in this day and age, when time alone is almost like the enemy.

• 1:06:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:19Michelle Obama?

  You know, with social media and phones and, you know, video games and, you know, the one thing I had growing up as a child that really encouraged my creativity was a lot of time alone. You know, when we grew up, you, you had seven TV channels and.

• 1:06:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:43Michelle Obama?

  You know, kids TV ended at noon.

• 1:06:46Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:06:46Michelle Obama?

  You know, and it didn't start until three. You know, there was just not, there weren't a lot of artificial distractions. The beauty of that is that it gives you time.

• 1:06:59Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:07:00Michelle Obama?

  You know, to be bored.

• 1:07:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:02Michelle Obama?

  To let your mind quiet.

• 1:07:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:05Michelle Obama?

  To have something to fill up.

• 1:07:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:08Michelle Obama?

  Right? And that's where creativity happens. I mean, when I'm six and I pick up a spiral notebook to start writing my first story.

• 1:07:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:16Michelle Obama?

  A lot of that was because

• 1:07:17Speaker 00

  I didn't have anything to do.

• 1:07:18Michelle Obama?

  I didn't have anything to do. And no one, my, my mother was not trying to fill my time.

• 1:07:23Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:07:23Michelle Obama?

  She was like, go play, go do your thing. You know, nothing is scheduled.

• 1:07:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:28Michelle Obama?

  You know, it's the summer, you got all day.

• 1:07:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:31Michelle Obama?

  And you're, you've played enough, your brother's sick of you, your big brother doesn't want to play with you anymore. And you think, there are things in my head.

• 1:07:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:40Michelle Obama?

  I'm thinking, I'm daydreaming, I'm letting things happen for me. That's where creativity happens.

• 1:07:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:46Michelle Obama?

  And if we don't allow for that.

• 1:07:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:49Michelle Obama?

  Because we are constantly filling up every second of our time, taking in a TikTok video or listening to someone else, forget even, like if we got off of our phones

• 1:08:02Michelle Obama?

  and, and, and got comfortable with silence and aloneness. That is the space where creativity comes. So I would say to Courtney, I'd also ask her to think about

• 1:08:17Speaker 00

  The times when she's filling the time when she doesn't need to.

• 1:08:19Michelle Obama?

  That's right. And is she allowing herself spaces of quiet and aloneness?

• 1:08:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:08:25Craig Robinson?

  So Courtney, I hope you, you're picking this up. It sounds like you have to do something that's a little counterintuitive.

• 1:08:32Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:08:32Craig Robinson?

  Be a little bit more selfish in order to be better for everyone else.

• 1:08:36Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:08:37Craig Robinson?

  And to Misha's point, be comfortable being by yourself.

• 1:08:41Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. Let the creativity, give yourself time for the creativity to happen.

• 1:08:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:08:46Michelle Obama?

  Well, this is

• 1:08:47Craig Robinson?

  This has been wonderful.

• 1:08:48Michelle Obama?

  It's been a delight.

• 1:08:49Speaker 00

  Thank you, thank you.

• 1:08:50Michelle Obama?

  Gosh, congratulations on everything.

• 1:08:53Speaker 00

  Thank you, Michelle.

• 1:08:54Michelle Obama?

  So many things.

• 1:08:54Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:08:55Michelle Obama?

  Simply More.

• 1:08:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:08:58Michelle Obama?

  I'm so proud of it.

• 1:08:59Speaker 00

  I'm really very proud of it.

• 1:09:00Michelle Obama?

  I mean, your album, you should be.

• 1:09:02Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:09:03Michelle Obama?

  You should, absolutely. It's a beautiful book.

• 1:09:05Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:09:06Michelle Obama?

  There is more in it, all of this is in it, but lots of wonderful lessons. We get to know you in a very powerful way.

• 1:09:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, thank you.

• 1:09:17Michelle Obama?

  And it's gonna help some, some, some folks.

• 1:09:19Speaker 00

  I hope so.

• 1:09:20Michelle Obama?

  So this, this is the time, holidays, when you go see Wicked for Good, pick up Simply More.

• 1:09:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:09:26Michelle Obama?

  And give it to somebody that you love as a gift. And come back and see us.

• 1:09:31Speaker 00

  I will, I will.

• 1:09:33Michelle Obama?

  You're busy, but we'll be watching.

• 1:09:34Speaker 00

  But this will be my, this will be one of my stops. I'll always come back.

• 1:09:37Michelle Obama?

  I am home.

• 1:09:38Speaker 00

  I'm coming. I'll be back, I promise. And I don't break my promises. I'll be back.

• 1:09:43Michelle Obama?

  Thank you for this. Love you much.

• 1:09:45Speaker 00

  Love you too.

• 1:09:50Craig Robinson?

  Thanks again to our friends at Progressive Insurance for sponsoring this episode. For more information, visit progressive.com slash open the house.

• 1:10:07Craig Robinson?

  This episode is brought to you by Cologuard. I knew that I shouldn't delay screening for colon cancer, and Cologuard has made that process one million times easier for all of us. I just answered a few questions about my age and medical history. And once their licensed clinician determined I was eligible, they issued the prescription and the Cologuard Plus kit was sent right to my home. No doctor's office visit necessary. For me, there was just immediate relief in getting it done. It cost me $0 with my insurance. It took me truly 15 minutes. And now I can rest easier knowing I screened properly. Plus, if you get a negative result, you generally don't need a repeat Cologuard test for three years.

• 1:10:51Craig Robinson?

  If you're 45 or older and at average risk, it's time to screen for colon cancer, even if you feel perfectly healthy. And Cologuard Plus gives you an option you can use right at home. Talk to your healthcare provider about screening for colon cancer with Cologuard or request it online today at Cologuard.com, where they have an easy telehealth option. Don't wait. Cologuard products are intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Do not use if you have had a personal history of colorectal cancer or polyps, have inflammatory bowel disease, a family history of colorectal cancer, or certain hereditary syndromes, or a positive result from another colon cancer screening method within that test recommended screening interval. Cologuard results should be interpreted with caution as false positives and false negatives do occur. Available by prescription only.