Behind The Looks with Meredith Koop

In this intimate conversation, Michelle Obama is joined by her longtime stylist Meredith Koop and journalist and author Elaine Welteroth to talk through Meredith and Michelle’s incredibly impactful work together. They share the unexpected way that their paths crossed, offer a behind-the-scenes look at their process, and share the unique challenges that the White House posed to styling Michelle. They also share how they’ve approached this exciting post-White House stage of Michelle’s style journey (featuring a certain thigh high gold boot!). See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I knew like if something went wrong with the designer, you know, if it was the wrong thing, the wrong person, the wrong time, even just the zipper breaks, she falls down, her heels break? Like, you've never seen her fall down because I checked everything. You've never seen her zipper pop because I checked the zipper. You know what I mean? So like.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  You can't have our first black first lady falling down.

• 0:23Speaker 00

  No, no, no.

• 0:23Speaker 01

  That was Meredith.

• 0:25Michelle Obama?

  That was the biggest goal, getting out of the eight years without falling.

• 0:35Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Rivian.

• 0:40Speaker 01

  Welcome to The Look, a special series on IMO. The Look also happens to be the name of Michelle Obama's beautiful new book, which is available for purchase now. I'm Elaine Welteroth, journalist, author, television host, and founder of Birth Fun. And it is my absolute honor to be here today with the Mrs. Obama and her longtime beloved stylist Meredith Coop. Hello, ladies.

• 1:07Speaker 00

  Hi Elaine.

• 1:08Michelle Obama?

  Thank you for being, I'm so, so, so excited to have you here. You know, when we started working on this project, first person I said, we have to get is you, my friend. So, you know, and look at you.

• 1:21Speaker 01

  Let me not cry.

• 1:22Michelle Obama?

  Look at you.

• 1:23Speaker 01

  Look at you two, okay? I am so excited to be here. Even just walking into this room, seeing these pictures, made my eyes well up. This is a moment that we get the opportunity to sit together and reflect on all of the history, all the fashion history that you all have co-created. So it is my honor to be here. You both worked so hard on this book project, and I am so excited to get into all of it. For this episode, we are gonna go deep behind the scenes with both of you to hear all about your style evolution from the White House to today. And before we get to all of that, though, I want to take a moment to get to know Meredith.

• 2:08Speaker 00

  Ooh.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  So fun fact, when I had the opportunity to share, when I shared this opportunity with just a couple of people in my life. Even the fashion people were like, wait, Michelle Obama has a stylist? I was like, yes, people, yes. So after being behind the scenes all of these years, what is it like to finally step in front of the cameras and tell your story and be able to share your work with the world? This must feel so amazing.

• 2:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's exciting, honestly. I mean, I've done interviews and things here and there, but to have this project that's so much more in-depth and substantive and really speaks to what the work is, is awesome. And it's my work with Michelle is different, you know, than I would say most stylists, but there's also a lot in common with what most stylists do. So it feels good. I mean, it's kind of scary, but it's good.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Well, you have to tell us a little bit of your backstory because you are literally living so many people's fashion dream. And yet you didn't even set out to be a stylist. So we have to hear how you landed this job of all jobs. This is huge. And by the way, you started, your first fashion job was kind of just to pay the bills. You went to school for psychology. You were intending to pursue a path in psychology. So I also want to hear how your background in psychology has influenced your work as a stylist.

• 3:44Speaker 00

  My passion growing up was dance. That was something that I felt truly passionate about, but that did not come to fruition for me.

• 3:53Michelle Obama?

  Can I just say, one of the favorite, my favorite things about Meredith is that she is a bomb dancer. She has moves. Yes, and kickball change. I mean, she can throw down, but I, that's a factoid that I think the world needs to know, that in addition to being a phenomenal.

• 4:13Speaker 00

  Let me be a middle-aged backup dancer, please.

• 4:14Michelle Obama?

  She is ready.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 4:17Speaker 00

  But yeah, so that was really something that had I had. All the expansive opportunity in front of me with that, that's what I would have done. But that's not how I grew up. Like, the culture of my family was, you're gonna go to a liberal arts college, you're gonna go to a four-year college, you're gonna get a degree, something that could potentially translate into some sort of steady income. And I think it wasn't, you know, when I meet people that have children that are like pursuing the arts, I'm always so impressed with the parents of how open they are to that experience.

• 4:52Speaker 00

  So when I went to school, I chose psychology just because I was interested in people, but it wasn't like this big plan, you know? And college was not a place where I thrived. I was not prepared emotionally, mentally, to be in that space independently and had a lot of issues. So when I came out of that experience, I wasn't, oh, I'm set up for success and now I'm gonna go climb some corporate ladder somewhere. I came out like, ew, what, what, what are people doing? Like, how old am I? What am I, what am I supposed to do now? Like, I think a lot of people have that experience.

• 5:33Speaker 00

  It's just, you know, with my specific issues and things that I was dealing with, I, I was like, I just need to get a job. I wasn't about my ego, it wasn't about anything except I want to make money to support myself so that I can just be a functioning adult on some level. I moved to Chicago and I just started looking through ads. And at the time, a lot of those ads were print. They were printed out.

• 6:01Michelle Obama?

  I remember the day.

• 6:02Speaker 00

  I saw this ad and it said, um, "Sales Associate at a High-End Clothing Boutique." Like, I remember exactly what it said. And then a number, no name, like, I didn't really know what it was. I didn't really know where it was. I just knew it was in Chicago. And I didn't, wasn't shopping at high-end luxury stores. Okay, so I had no reference. So I called, I, you know, they answered with the name of the store. So then I was able to research what it was. I went in for the interview and... Also, just noting that like, I'd always been interested in fashion. Like, fashion always spoke to me, clothing always spoke to me, like, I always liked that expressive nature of it. I always liked playing dress up.

• 6:46Speaker 00

  I always, you know, was laying out outfits for my mom at a young age. Like, I was always drawing clothes and designs and things. But again, it wasn't something where I thought, oh, here's a model of how I could use that in a career. I had no idea.

• 7:00Michelle Obama?

  That's just the thing about unconventional careers, you know? I mean, you go to college for a broad spectrum, and you get the majors that you get. You can be, you still learn, you can be a doctor, a lawyer. I always say this. But nobody talks about being an entrepreneur. No one, no one talks about fashion design. No one talks about styling.

• 7:24Speaker 00

  And certainly not in my community.

• 7:26Michelle Obama?

  Not in the Midwest, in St. Louis, Missouri.

• 7:28Speaker 00

  In the suburbs, like, I just didn't, I just didn't have a frame of reference for it like that. So, yeah, so I went in, I did this interview, and the woman that owned the store was like, sorry, no, like, you have no experience, and so therefore you can't work here. And what had happened was, when I walked into that store, I saw all of these amazing clothes and jewelry. Like, I remember exactly how it looked, where the jewelry cases were, the jewelry that was in it, you walk over here. The gowns were hanging at the end of the rack. And I'm going a little out of order, forgive me. But prior to the interview, as I was walking around, looking through, I was just like,

• 8:13Speaker 00

  whoa, like, this is crazy. I've never seen this in person. I'd seen magazines, like, I grew up reading magazines. I would go to Barnes and Noble and read the magazines that we didn't have at the house. And then, whatever we had, I would read. So, I was just like, wow, I want to work here, you know, once I saw that. So, when she told me no, I was just like, oh, no, I am going to work here, though. So, I'm working here. So, it was just a moment of clarity, a moment of boldness. I was like, well, put me on a temporary, put me in a temporary position. If you think I'm awful, you can just let me go, no questions asked, like, no problem, six months.

• 9:00Speaker 00

  And she was like, okay. So that's when I started working there. And that was sort of like, you know, it's not just a clothing store. You just kind of, you know, you walk in and you look around. You had client books. There was a lot of fashion.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  High end.

• 9:16Speaker 00

  It was very high end. And like, there is a fashion education that happens there with the staff, with the owner. Like, she is incredible at her curation, her styling, the way that she runs her store. So I just learned a ton being there about designers, fabric alterations, tailoring, like, all of the things that you would sort of learn as a styling assistant. I learned some of those things there.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  So this is Ekrom boutique in Chicago, which is legendary.

• 9:47Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  Even as someone who's not from Chicago, like, I've heard of Ekrom. And so it makes sense to me what you're describing as this, like, I mean, this is kind of the fashion fairy tale, even starting at Ekrom.

• 9:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:59Michelle Obama?

  I mean, that's how I felt when I first walked into Ekrom. I was like, oh, my God, this place is amazing.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  So flash forward, you get a call one day from Ekrom. And she says what?

• 10:12Speaker 00

  I'm at this, I can't swear, crappy job. And I, I get a call. And it's Ekrom. And she literally is like, Meredith, Meredith.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Guys, are you seeing the scene? Are you seeing this play out? I could see this.

• 10:30Speaker 00

  I don't want to do too much. I'm not going to go too far. But there was like a sense of drama. There was a sense of like, this is, something's happening. Like, she's calling me for something big. So she said, I need someone to go to DC. Or she said something like, I need someone to go to DC and be sort of the go between. Because I don't have anyone else to send and I trust you, blah, blah, blah.

• 10:56Speaker 00

  And I was like, huh, like, what do you, like,

• 10:59Speaker 01

  What does that mean? What does that look like?

• 11:00Speaker 00

  It was just out of nowhere. So I'm like, what exactly am I going to be doing? I'm going to be working with Michelle Obama in what sense? In what context? DC, what, like, when, who, what, when, where, how, why? What's going on? And it was just like, you say,

• 11:18Speaker 01

  Say yes and ask questions later.

• 11:20Speaker 00

  Say yes or no. You have 24 hours. Because I was like, I didn't want to think about it, you know? I don't think that went over well.

• 11:27Speaker 00

  So, yeah, so basically, the next things were like, I was just saying yes to the next thing. I wasn't saying yes to the whole kit and caboodle, because I didn't even know what the kit and caboodle was. So I wasn't going to be like, yeah, I'm in, right? I didn't know you. I didn't know anything about anything.

• 11:45Speaker 01

  You didn't know DC.

• 11:46Speaker 00

  I didn't know DC. I didn't know, like, anything. So I just agreed to move forward with whatever the immediate next step was.

• 11:56Speaker 01

  And I think is a major lesson in life.

• 12:00Speaker 00

  Oh, my goodness.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  Is just to say yes to the next best thing.

• 12:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  Don't overthink it. Don't, just say yes to the next best thing if your enthusiasm is, is calling you in that direction, if it feels like the right step. When did you know this was actually the right step for you, though? Because it sounds like you went in with a little bit of trepidation and a lot of unknowns.

• 12:21Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. And I can say that that was a, a, a big plus. You know, the, you know, to be cold called, to drop your life. Because what I said, I think that it's sane to be hesitant. I think I would have been a bit more suspicious. I would have been like, okay, is, does this young person have some gravitas in her own life to really think about this? You know, because sometimes just saying yes, that's not an indication that you're really ready. Because if you haven't sort of thought through this, this big life-changing move, you know, you're going to pick up from everything you know, move to a whole nother city.

• 13:05Michelle Obama?

  And enter into a world that I couldn't even explain yet to Meredith. You know, there was a lot of, we don't know what we're doing. We don't know what this is gonna be. But, you know, what I can, what I could say to her is that, you know, you'll be safe, you'll be respected. You know, if you put in the effort, you'll be treated well. I need the help.

• 13:31Michelle Obama?

  And you've got to be ready to build and grow with this process. Because there really wasn't a process. So it was two leaps of faith that we were, we were both taking.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  Kind of a fashion love story.

• 13:46Speaker 00

  And really what you said, because I remember like when we had our little meetup for the first time, you would, she said to me, she said, if you're smart, funny, and you work hard, you'll be fine. And I was like, well, okay.

• 14:01Speaker 01

  You're like, check, check, check.

• 14:02Speaker 00

  Check, check, check.

• 14:03Michelle Obama?

  Just to create a bigger context to what we were doing. I had been working with Ekrom. I started working with Maria Pinto, the first time that I had ever worked with a designer. And I, I met Ekrom through another friend. And I hadn't shopped at her shop in Chicago either. And walking in, I was like, wow, you know, this is a whole nother level of design and styling that was just important to the overall role. At the time, we started working together, we were still campaigning. It wasn't clear that he was gonna win. But I was thinking ahead, thinking about, you know, I'm gonna need gowns

• 14:46Michelle Obama?

  and a whole range of things that I can't get from one designer. So Ekrom was styling me for about the first year of the term. But it was very difficult for her as the owner of her own shop to really, I mean, I needed somebody full time. I needed somebody that was smart, capable, understood the baseline of fashion, but could also get the political message. And there was just something about the way Meredith carried herself.

• 15:23Michelle Obama?

  She was always poised.

• 15:26Michelle Obama?

  And she was always honest. You know, she didn't, she wasn't selling me on this job. She wasn't sort of telling me a bunch of stuff that she was ready. She was very clear. I don't know about this. I'm learning this. But I could tell that she was a hard worker. And I was like, well, we can figure the rest of it out. You know? So, so she came on about this. Well, you were always there facilitating. But it was a clear that I needed one stylist. I needed somebody exclusively working with, with me, for me, with a range of designers. And that's when we, I decided, okay, Meredith, you can do this.

• 16:09Michelle Obama?

  Then I had to really tell her, you can actually do this. I had seen her working enough to know that she could figure this out. And I think there may have been a little kind of like, mm, can I? But I knew she could.

• 16:31Michelle Obama?

  Hey, everybody. I am here with my sister, daughter, friend, everything hairstylist, Yenay. Yenay, welcome to the podcast.

• 16:43Speaker 03

  Thank you for having me.

• 16:44Michelle Obama?

  I know, I get to have you here and we get to talk.

• 16:48Speaker 03

  All the things, more conversations.

• 16:50Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, we've been working together for a while. I mean, you've been styling me exclusively almost for a decade now. But.

• 17:00Speaker 03

  In the orbit for about 16, 17 years.

• 17:02Michelle Obama?

  16, 17 years.

• 17:04Speaker 03

  It's been a long time.

• 17:05Michelle Obama?

  See, you look at you and you think, well, she's 16 or 17. So you started when you were eight years old?

• 17:11Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, 21, 21.

• 17:14Michelle Obama?

  Share with us, our, our listeners, our audience, your story of how we met and how you came into my life as baby, as a little baby.

• 17:25Speaker 03

  Baby stylist.

• 17:26Michelle Obama?

  Scared baby stylist.

• 17:28Speaker 03

  Scared baby. We met in 2009. I started doing hair. I had just got licensed, actually, shortly after, shortly before we met. But I had started doing hair when I was in middle school. That's when my, my interest in the beauty space first peaked. By 16, I decided to go to cosmetology school.

• 17:46Michelle Obama?

  And you were like doing people's hair in the neighborhood, your family.

• 17:51Speaker 03

  I was the neighborhood braider. I had a little salon set up in my parents' garage.

• 17:57Michelle Obama?

  That's the funny thing. It's like your parents hooked you up, let you be a little entrepreneur.

• 18:02Speaker 03

  Yes, it was so nice. It was like the early 2000s and I was doing all the braiding and all the things. My brother was my very first client. I would start to braid here, it ended here. My braiding skills were horrible.

• 18:14Speaker 03

  But.

• 18:14Michelle Obama?

  But you were seven.

• 18:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it was, it was fine. It was like, it was my practice. So it was really great. And then went to cosmetology school. And shortly after I got licensed, um, I met Johnny and I started working with him.

• 18:27Michelle Obama?

  And by Johnny, you mean Johnny Wright?

• 18:28Speaker 03

  Yes, Johnny Wright.

• 18:30Michelle Obama?

  Is my, uh, primary hairstylist throughout the White House years.

• 18:34Speaker 03

  Yes. And he took me under his wings and brought me in and that's how we met. And I started working with the girls, which is crazy, cause I was the baby, but they were the babies too. Um, and I got to work with them.

• 18:46Michelle Obama?

  How, how old were they when you first? Cause it was at the very beginning, so they were 10 and seven.

• 18:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, they were very little.

• 18:52Michelle Obama?

  You met them.

• 18:53Speaker 03

  Yes, we used to do the twists and all the things and, and Sunday wash day routines and all the fun times and chaperoning them and just being a part of their lives. It was now, being a little bit older and having my own kid, it's like, oh, those were the fun moments. And I remember what that was like when I was in their age and I was, you know, getting my hair done by my mother.

• 19:14Michelle Obama?

  Well, that was the beauty of them. You were their big sister, um, and it was good.

• 19:19Speaker 03

  And you were my big sister.

• 19:20Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, it was all the sisters falling down, cause you also did grandma too.

• 19:24Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 19:25Michelle Obama?

  So it was all of us ladies together, but I love the fact that you were their big sister hair mentor. Um, at the very beginning that they had somebody younger who understood what they were trying to do. And you were teaching them all along about hair health and hair care. And you would have the arguments with them if they wanted to switch a style that you didn't agree with.

• 19:46Speaker 03

  I'd be like, okay. You guys learned this in school and this is all cute, but we have to think about what's going to work beyond this period in time and making sure that when we finish throughout all of this, that your hair is still healthy and you could do whatever you want when you're an adult and you actually have the freedom and the financial capacity to do whatever you want and be creative. And so it was fun times.

• 20:07Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. And you know, the thing is, people don't realize that you were also studying to get your degree.

• 20:14Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 20:14Michelle Obama?

  While you were working. Because your parents were in, tell them about that.

• 20:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, so my parents.

• 20:20Michelle Obama?

  Your parents were supportive of this endeavor.

• 20:22Speaker 03

  Of me doing hair, kind of, sort of, which is why they let me go to cosmetologist when I was 16. But there was a caveat, I still had to go to college. But when I ended up working with Johnny and moving because you guys want, took office and I packed my life and moved across the country from California to DC, I dropped out of college. And so my parents were like, okay, you still have to go to college. So I did, I went back.

• 20:44Michelle Obama?

  Still have to go to college, y'all.

• 20:45Speaker 03

  Still have to go to college, which, you know, I'm so grateful for because I think that people don't realize that as beauty professionals or service providers, we're entrepreneurs and it's extremely important for us to have these skill sets and to have the knowledge to properly run a business. And going back to school and getting my degree in business really helped me, which now that I have a salon, it has helped me build the team that I have. It has helped me run my business in a way that is profitable and that makes sense and I'm able to scale. So I'm grateful that I went back to college, but it would be in the salon, in the middle of touch-ups, helping Johnny out or doing the girls, I'd be in the corner writing my papers.

• 21:23Michelle Obama?

  Doing her homework.

• 21:24Speaker 03

  Doing my homework. And it was actually kind of funny because the girls would look at me, they'd be like, are you really doing homework? And I'm like, yeah, just like you guys, I have homework, but I'm, you know, in my twenties now. And you're not, but this is the reality of life. So all good memories.

• 21:39Michelle Obama?

  What was it like for you being that young, entering into that arena? What did it feel like the first time you had to walk into the White House? Because you were.

• 21:51Speaker 03

  A lot of nerves.

• 21:52Michelle Obama?

  Uh huh.

• 21:52Speaker 03

  A lot of nerves, you know, and I think not only was it that I was young, but you grow up in a society where people don't have respect for the traits, right? People don't think that like, even my parents are like, you have to go to college. So I had to be a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer, or go down this traditional trajectory when it came to education. So coming into that type of space, you're always doubting yourself to be like, am I adequate enough? And that was something that I struggled with all throughout our time there, but there was this reinforcement, I knew that I was adequate, but you still have these doubts. And so the first time coming in, it was just do the job. It was Easter weekend, it was before the Easter egg roll, and I was shampooing the girl's hair and your husband walked in. And you were like, this is you, and I was like shampooing hair and I was like, hello, sir.

• 22:36Speaker 03

  And then I just went right back and I was like, don't say anything, don't make eye contact. Don't look him in the eyes, just like do your job. And I just kept hearing my parents in the background being like, don't embarrass us. Act like you have manners, you know, so there was all of these pressures because there was so much respect. And as a young little black girl, I also knew what it meant to have someone like you and your husband in office. And so there was that added layer of pressure where it was just like, we also had to make sure that we did you guys right and make you proud and we had to make sure that we were doing the best of our ability to keep your guys' legacy as bright as it was.

• 23:11Michelle Obama?

  And you made me so proud all the time. That, you know, your skill set, your professionalism always showed through. You were never late, you never complained, you never talked about your homework, you didn't treat it as a problem. You were kind, gracious, all the things, and it has been just amazing to watch you grow. And now you are your own business owner. Can you talk a bit about

• 23:39Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 23:39Michelle Obama?

  where you are in life now?

• 23:41Speaker 03

  Founded Aesthetic Salon in 2017. We have a team of 23 individuals that work with us.

• 23:47Michelle Obama?

  You have 23 people working for your little self?

• 23:50Speaker 03

  Isn't that crazy?

• 23:50Michelle Obama?

  I can't stop but think of this child as a baby. So I, I, I came to the opening.

• 23:56Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 23:56Michelle Obama?

  Right?

• 23:57Speaker 03

  You came to the opening.

• 23:58Michelle Obama?

  But still wanted us. Be a baby boss is.

• 24:01Speaker 03

  I still like to take the title of baby boss.

• 24:03Michelle Obama?

  Baby boss.

• 24:04Speaker 03

  I'm gonna hold on to that title. But we have twenty-three team members that work with us, from styling team to assistants to our operations manager. And we have three apprentices right now that are going through cosmetology school with us as well, because rather than going and paying, they're coming and getting firsthand experience, trade experience on the job, which I'm extremely proud about. And not just for myself, but for the other salon members who are pouring into these young girls as well. And they're from all different walks of life and all different ages. And so I'm grateful for that. We have a thriving clientele book that we're so grateful for, that supports us, that does a lot in the community, that supports us, that gives back, that brings ideas to us, that we're always grateful for as well.

• 24:49Speaker 03

  And as you know, like the relationship we have, we have very intimate personal relationships. And we get to be a part of all of their big life moments, good and bad, to just have someone to lean on. And like you, my clients pour into me and help me become a better person, a better woman, a better mother, a better wife now in this era of my life, like you do.

• 25:10Michelle Obama?

  And your philosophy is beautiful hair, but healthy hair.

• 25:16Speaker 03

  Good hair is healthy hair. So health is first, the health integrity of your hair. We could have versatility, but we have to make sure that we're doing a three-sixty approach. We're looking at it from the inside out. What are you eating? What is your diet? What is your lifestyle? Like, is this conducive to what you do and what your hair goals are? And not really being so fixated on like length retention, but healthy hair. So sometimes we have to do a cut or a chop to grow it out, if we need to use extensions, if we need to go into protective styles. All is well and all is necessary, but understanding who you are and giving you a personalized approach.

• 25:49Michelle Obama?

  And this is what I like about what you bring to the industry, is that you're not just concerned about the outside, the aesthetic. And people ask me, well, what's your favorite hairstyle that Yone has done? I mean, I like them all, but what I love about you is that you care about my health. So you create. Styles for the moment that that fit the moment, but also don't damage my hair, that keep me looking fresh and healthy and up to date. You know all the trends.

• 26:20Speaker 03

  I try.

• 26:21Michelle Obama?

  You can take me through all the things. You absolutely do. But at the core of your philosophy is teaching, training and hair health.

• 26:30Speaker 03

  Yes, education is extremely important and transparency is really important. I think that so for so long, women have felt captive to their hairstylists and they're not

• 26:39Michelle Obama?

  Say that again.

• 26:41Speaker 03

  They're not able to recreate things because hairstylists are like, this is my territory. This is my landscape. This is my space and I have to be in control. And I'm for me, it's like, no, because if a client doesn't come to me every single day, they're in control of their hair and they need to be able to make it look good regardless. Because if someone stops on the train and says, who did your hair? You're gonna say my name. So I need to make sure that you have the education. You have the products. You have the skill set. You have the tools at home to maintain your hair and that your hair is healthy and it works for you. And education is at the key foundation of everything that we do.

• 27:17Michelle Obama?

  And one thing you all, I'm very excited about is that services from people like Yenay are available to everyone now.

• 27:26Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 27:27Michelle Obama?

  Because of Airbnb and their new special efforts to not only offer wonderful places to stay, but they can access your services through Airbnb. Can you talk about that relationship?

• 27:43Speaker 03

  Washington DC, but also in LA, which is where I'm initially from. So shout out to California. Airbnb's new platform makes it easy to book services with professionals for all special events from birthdays to weddings to girls getaways. You could find a makeup artist, you could find a massage therapist, hairstylist and even me. All you have to do is search my name, Yenay Damto. And if you're also a hair professional looking to grow your clientele, you too can list your business on Airbnb at Airbnb.com/services.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  Well, I want to go back a little bit to first impressions. Because neither one of you could have prepared for the role of a lifetime that you were both about to step into together. So, you know, not just you being a first lady, but the first black first lady.

• 28:41Speaker 01

  That's a unique styling job. There's certain complexities that no one can teach you that, right? You have to learn that. There's some innate intuitive and historical understanding that you have to have to step into a role like that. So I want to go to first impressions. And because when I think about, you know, the fact that most people don't know who this enigma is, this stylist behind Mrs. Obama, what was your very first impression of Meredith? And Meredith, I'm going to ask you the same question, and I want unfiltered, raw first impressions of each other.

• 29:18Michelle Obama?

  Well, the first impression was she's gorgeous. You know, and I always tell Meredith this. I think she is one of the most beautiful people inside and out. And she seemed calm, just steady, even though I know that deep down inside, she can be a bubbling pot of everything. You know, this place, this, I mean, this is who Meredith has always been. She has not changed. And even though Meredith worked in this high-end store,

• 29:58Michelle Obama?

  and she could have been, she was very much a regular girl, who I felt like I recognized. And I'm always one to get to know people's stories, you know? So throughout all the time that we work together, with everybody that I work with, I want to know, how'd you grow up? Tell me about your mom. Tell me about your sister. You know, her relationship with her sister and her brother-in-law. And her honesty about... Her challenges in life. I mean, she wasn't coming in phony. She wasn't coming in trying too hard. She was coming in full heart open. And then there is the relationship with my girls, right?

• 30:43Michelle Obama?

  Because she, Meredith didn't just style me. I mean, I needed, the girls had to get dressed, you know, for events and for, my mom had to get dressed. I mean, this little girl at such a young age was taking that all on. And she had a connection with Malia and Sasha and mom. I mean, they were as close to Meredith as I was. She's been through a lot over the course of our time in the White House. She lost her sister in her battle with cancer.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  I'm so sorry.

• 31:18Michelle Obama?

  And she's in Washington trying to hold that down. And making sure that her family was good. It's just, you know,

• 31:29Speaker 01

  You become family after.

• 31:30Michelle Obama?

  You just know a person's heart.

• 31:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 31:33Michelle Obama?

  Which to me is more important than the job. You know, her heart was right.

• 31:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:40Michelle Obama?

  And that was completely clear from the beginning. And I'm so proud of her. Just proud of the woman that she is. So, so that was my, that was really my first and continues to be my impression. Of Meredith.

• 31:55Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 31:56Speaker 01

  I know, get the tissues.

• 31:57Michelle Obama?

  I was supposed to make you cry.

• 32:00Michelle Obama?

  Here, here goes some.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  That's beautiful. What is it like hearing her say that, those things about you?

• 32:04Speaker 00

  It's wonderful. I, I very much appreciate it. And, I mean, frankly, it's true. You know, I have done, you know, just to sort of go back a little bit like,

• 32:17Speaker 00

  you know, by the time I met you, I was 27. So when I was 21, after like a lot of struggles, I got sober. I started going to therapy. So any, the foundation that I came in with was that. That was the foundation that I built over those six years of learning about what it was to be in recovery, learning about myself in that way. So I'm in that, that's where I'm at when I met her. Um, and the first time that we met was at Ekrom's store. And it was her and Sasha and Malia, so.

• 32:56Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 32:57Speaker 00

  It was.

• 32:58Michelle Obama?

  It was hectic.

• 32:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was like a lot of energy and also there was an expectation that I should sort of,

• 33:07Speaker 00

  like, be a little bit reserved, like, I'm not gonna go, hey, what's up, y'all? You know, like, it's like, you're here, you're gonna meet them and, like, that's it. And she's gonna pull you for an interview, I don't know when, that's whatever, so.

• 33:23Speaker 00

  My first impression was there was a lot going on.

• 33:28Michelle Obama?

  Secret Service.

• 33:29Speaker 00

  She looked at me and I know she acknowledged me, but it wasn't like warm, fuzzy right off the bat. You know what I'm saying? Like, there was just.

• 33:36Michelle Obama?

  We were in the middle of a fitting.

• 33:37Speaker 00

  She was about her business.

• 33:38Michelle Obama?

  This has had to get done.

• 33:39Speaker 00

  She was about her business, you know, and like, I get it. And I had already worked with clients, so I understood clients aren't gonna come in and placate you.

• 33:49Michelle Obama?

  It's not about you.

• 33:50Speaker 00

  Make you feel good, yeah, so like.

• 33:52Michelle Obama?

  Right.

• 33:53Speaker 00

  So that I understood and, um, and then, but then, the, the sort of shift in that environment is her two daughters that are there, jumping around and like, just acting like they're at a carnival, you know? And I'm like, oh my God, they're just so cute, you know, they've just so like, so cute. Ah, you know? And, um, so it was sort of more of a environment. And when we went in dressing room, we had like this very short interview. I mean, it was just like, who are you? Like, there wasn't like a resume sitting out, it was just like, who are you? What's going on?

• 34:34Speaker 00

  I need someone, like, you seem like this, that, and I was just like, uh huh, yeah, uh huh, yeah, yeah. So it's, I'm not, you know, just to go back, I'm not really shy. I'm not reserved. That's not who I am. But I'm also, I think it's just my approach and what I see fashion as in this industry that I work in, I think is probably a little, maybe, a little different than what a lot of people are projecting or what's sort of like the loudest voices. Like, for me, it's always been like the beauty and the creativity and the connection and the energy and that whole thing, even if I couldn't articulate it when I was 21, you know?

• 35:14Speaker 00

  That's always, I've always just been like imaginative and creative and wanting to be creative in that space. So the fact that I got into this, this is now what I'm doing with my creativity. It could have been other things. It's just, this is just how it played out up until this point.

• 35:34Michelle Obama?

  And I also want to say that there is a difference between, when you think of celebrity stylists, I always think of which word are you emphasizing? Are you the celebrity stylist? Are you a celebrity stylist?

• 35:50Speaker 00

  And there is a difference.

• 35:51Michelle Obama?

  There is, there is a big difference, right? Because, you know, would I say that I have a stylist? You know, I didn't know what that word was. I, I knew that I needed help getting clothes because there was no way, as I write in the book, that I could go to Bloomingdale's and run and do a couple of errands or go to Neiman Marcus like I was doing before I met Meredith. There was just no room for it. And the, the art of getting dressed as a regular woman, it was not executable for me. So I wasn't thinking style as much as I was thinking, I got a lot of events coming up

• 36:32Michelle Obama?

  and I can't, I can no longer go into the department store like a regular person.

• 36:37Speaker 00

  Right.

• 36:37Michelle Obama?

  I can't get stuff off the rack. I can't, I can't browse. I don't have time for that, nor do I have the ability. The bubble was so thick and continues to be that the norm- of everyday dressing was no longer available to me or my daughters.

• 36:55Speaker 01

  Well, I think, let's define the term stylist.

• 36:58Michelle Obama?

  Oh, let's do it.

• 37:00Speaker 01

  Because you started styling Mrs. Obama before that was a recognizable term or job that people even knew about. And to this day, the average person doesn't really know.

• 37:11Michelle Obama?

  I didn't, I didn't know about it. I wouldn't have called Meredith a stylist.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 37:17Michelle Obama?

  Even though that's what she was doing.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  If you were, I mean, that was the only.

• 37:20Michelle Obama?

  That was the first time I heard about it, when I, that she had that reality show. It's like, oh, wow. Imagine somebody buying clothes for you.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 37:28Michelle Obama?

  That seems interesting.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  It's some fashion fairy tale, like not real life. And one of the words that Meredith has used to describe you, like in a word, she has described you as practical, above all else. So I want to hear you guys.

• 37:42Michelle Obama?

  It's true.

• 37:43Speaker 01

  We're gonna get into that.

• 37:43Michelle Obama?

  It's so true.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  That applies to the fashion. We're gonna get into that. But, but help us define what your role actually was. Because as you mentioned, these days, sometimes the stylists are as celebrated as the celebrities that they dress. And they have their whole aura and a whole platform. In this case, that was not the case. You were here to do a job, and the job was so singular for an individual like Mrs. Obama. So what, and it's not as glamorous as people might imagine.

• 38:16Michelle Obama?

  Ha, ha.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  So tell us what the job really entailed.

• 38:19Speaker 00

  Um, yeah, so, so a few things. It's true. Rachel Zoe was the first stylist in sort of, at least American culture, that everybody was sort of aware of in the mainstream. Um, so I watched that show and I knew who she was and I was like, she's incredible. Like, I love her. Um, but.

• 38:47Michelle Obama?

  My role, and kind of coming back to this question of defining a stylist, it's true that what I was doing in the White House isn't what a typical stylist would necessarily be doing. Just because of the various considerations and the intensity of those considerations. Like, it wasn't about what's fabulous, what's new, what's hot, what just came down the runway. Sometimes, little bits of that.

• 39:18Speaker 01

  Probably more so now than then.

• 39:20Michelle Obama?

  More so now, but it was more about what works, what makes sense, what is not going to pull attention away from what is going on here that is the bigger, more important thing. There were so many other considerations in choosing clothing and accessories and research and vetting and all of this stuff that I think it is different. And, you know, I needed to look good but not look apart, right? So, it had to, you know, I had to feel good in it. But I couldn't show up looking like, "Don't touch me." You know, "Don't come near, I am so above you."

• 40:05Michelle Obama?

  I can't, I couldn't do that and sit on the floor with a bunch of preschool kids. You know, as I was alluded to, I didn't want my clothes to speak before me. I didn't, I didn't, I could never wear anything that wouldn't allow me to hug someone, to drop on the floor, to do jumping, because, because we were, literally because of "Let's Move." I would never know when somebody would say, "Uh, let's do some pushups." I mean, that happened on Ellen, that happened when we went to South Africa and went to the World Cup event and we did this big "Let's Move" event. And remember Bishop Tutu, Desmond Tutu?

• 40:47Michelle Obama?

  Because we were doing all these, uh, we were just supposed to be walking around watching kids do calisthenics and things like that. And he looked at me and he said, I'm gonna do pushups. And I'm like, oh Bishop, please, don't do, don't do, don't do pushups. He was like, no. No, I, he dropped on the floor and I was like, I looked over at my team and I know Meredith was like, don't, don't get on the floor. And I was like, if he's doing pushups, if, if an 80 plus Bishop Desmond Tutu is on the floor doing pushups, I'm doing pushups with him. That, that kind of stuff would happen all the time.

• 41:26Speaker 01

  While Meredith is cringing in the back.

• 41:27Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 41:28Speaker 00

  For sure. And also, we were ready. Like, I remember what she was wearing that day. Like, it was just, we were ready. Cause by that time, we kind of knew, like.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  Had to stay ready.

• 41:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:40Michelle Obama?

  Had to stay ready.

• 41:41Speaker 00

  And it was a lot of very unglamorous activities.

• 41:45Michelle Obama?

  Well, and then there is the, also the valet part of what Meredith had to do.

• 41:50Speaker 00

  Those would be the unglamorous activities.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  Hugely unglamorous.

• 41:54Speaker 00

  Packing insane amounts of items and things and clothes and color coding them and organizing them.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  And like, give us a sense, how many events a week, a month?

• 42:06Speaker 00

  Well, it wasn't so, it, you know, I don't know how many events a week, a month, but it was more the foreign, foreign travel or campaign travel that was like the big, huge lifts of like, and, and let's be fair, like, people do press tours and concerts and all this. So like, it, it's not that, it's not that it's out of the ordinary. I guess the situation was because I was working for the government and because there's only so many resources, I was the one person doing that. I was the one packing everything.

• 42:38Speaker 01

  I mean, Rachel Zoe has a team of stylists. La Roche has an entire team.

• 42:43Michelle Obama?

  We didn't have that.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  And we're one woman show.

• 42:46Michelle Obama?

  And also for structural purposes, this is the difference between the first lady and the commander in chief. The commander in chief, um, hi- his whole wardrobe crew, he comes from the military because he is the equivalent of a five star general. And generals have valets, they have, you know, people who. Who are enlisted, who are trained to wash, care for, uniform, suits, so on and so forth. The President of the United States has the same thing. Um, when he travels, when he gets dressed. So, my hu- my husband was assigned three valets. Um, the family gets zero. The family is a bit, uh, secondary, right?

• 43:31Michelle Obama?

  Um, so, on the first lady's personal staff, there was only a position budgeted for one person that could be, uh, a babysitter, or, uh, like a maid, or, uh, you know, I mean, it sort of was, was a catch-all position, which didn't really fit into anything that a modern-day woman was doing. I mean, I was working, I was up, as they would call it, at least three or four days per week. That's just the average week. And by up means, and this is how I would just structure my days, because I was also a mom. And there were also the times when I needed to be at school and going to soccer games and have that time up.

• 44:15Michelle Obama?

  And in those three days, um, that I'm up three or four days, we would do anything from, uh, the day could start off with me, um, harvesting the garden with, uh, kids. And then I would move to maybe a greet with military spouses, and then go to a tea with, um, a set of ladies, or give a speech in the executive oval on healthy eating. Um, or, and then I would leave and maybe go visit a high school. I would get all that done in one day. And we would have to be prepared. That might mean I'd be changing my clothes two, three times a day. And so, Meredith.

• 44:59Michelle Obama?

  Would be responsible for getting me ready for each of those looks, each of those days, getting those clothes ready, getting them fitted, getting them to designers and back. Coordinating fittings for me within that schedule, because then you have to still sit and fit for clothes. I had one person to do all of that. That person was Meredith. And she had to procure it. She had to go out and do the research and find designers and find, see who were the latest and greatest. Who were those new up and coming minority designers? And I don't even know how she did that or when she found time to do that, to get on the phone and actually procure clothing

• 45:44Michelle Obama?

  to set up for the fitting, to get ready for those weeks and months and months of things. But here's what I didn't have to do. I didn't have to worry about it. Because this little kid from Missouri, you know, somehow handled all of that.

• 46:13Speaker 04

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• 46:57Speaker 04

  So if you're a makeup artist like me, you can now list your business on Airbnb at Airbnb.com/services.

• 47:04Craig Robinson?

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• 47:45Craig Robinson?

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• 48:25Craig Robinson?

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• 50:27Craig Robinson?

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• 50:58Speaker 00

  I'm sure there was so much pressure on getting it right up front that by the time you left the door.

• 51:04Michelle Obama?

  You had to let it go.

• 51:05Speaker 00

  You gotta let it go.

• 51:06Michelle Obama?

  The biggest, the biggest decision, I write about this in the book, is the very first time we went to the Grand Canyon. I write about this and we're on Air Force One because the schedule kind of screwed us up, right? And this is sometimes when I, when I, when it's me on my own, I control the schedule, fashion, and all of that is factored into the schedule. When I'm with the President of the United States, I'm on his agenda. We're told, we're supposed to go on a hike in the Grand Canyon, right? We don't know anything more than that. This is at the beginning of the term, too, where we really didn't realize that we have to really know all of the details.

• 51:50Michelle Obama?

  We can't just get the, we're going to the Grand Canyon. Because we're on Air Force One, about to land, and we're also, he's, he's gonna then go off and give a speech somewhere. So we, we are sitting in, with this dilemma, what do I wear off this plane? Right? Because we hit the tarmac and we're going with a park ranger to the Grand Canyon. We were like, well, what would, what would I wear? What would a regular person, woman, wear with her husband? She would have on shorts. And we spent like 15 minutes going back and forth.

• 52:26Speaker 00

  It was a really weird day. I'm gonna say that, first of all. But I mean, for me, that whole thing was like, this is my perception.

• 52:35Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 52:36Speaker 00

  The word hike was miss, was being thrown around.

• 52:40Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 52:40Speaker 00

  In a way that, if I were to define a hike, and I've been on many hikes, this was not a hike. But it was like, they just kept saying hike, hike, hike, hike. That's what they told us.

• 52:49Michelle Obama?

  She gets in her mind that it's a hike. So she's like, I'm going hiking. And I'm like, there's no way they're having her, but I can't prove it. I don't know. I don't have the information.

• 52:57Speaker 00

  And nobody could tell us.

• 52:58Michelle Obama?

  Nobody could clearly lay out. Well, we might, we might, we might hike down the mountain.

• 53:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:05Michelle Obama?

  I can't.

• 53:05Speaker 00

  Down the mountain.

• 53:06Michelle Obama?

  But. But there were times when stuff like that would happen. Or if my husband decided, come on, let's go down the mountain, right?

• 53:13Speaker 00

  Right.

• 53:13Michelle Obama?

  I have to be ready for that. And you don't.

• 53:16Speaker 00

  What happened?

• 53:16Michelle Obama?

  And you don't win. Um, I got crucified for the dish, um, dishonoring Air Force One by

• 53:25Speaker 00

  By wearing shorts.

• 53:26Michelle Obama?

  Walking down the stairs in shorts.

• 53:29Speaker 00

  How dare you?

• 53:30Michelle Obama?

  Dishonoring, I mean, the terms used were like, whoa, okay. We have to start pushing for real clear answers. I mean, we slowly started changing the way that we got prepped. And what kind of information? And this is why people started.

• 53:45Speaker 00

  Detailed.

• 53:45Michelle Obama?

  And it was detailed because it's like, no, you have to tell us. If I, if my team hasn't planned it, if I'm with the president, we have to know what exactly we're gonna do. And then I would have to opt in and out of stuff. So we, we learned. You know, we, we learned how to manage information and learned that the wrong management of it could be some crazy negative headline that could then distort the whole purpose of the trip. And that kind of stuff infuriated me, actually. It, it really did. And, and.

• 54:19Speaker 00

  It's wildly unfair.

• 54:21Michelle Obama?

  Well, it's, it's, it just is pointless to the bigger issues of the country.

• 54:27Speaker 00

  Right.

• 54:28Michelle Obama?

  Right? It just seems like the people who are sitting at their desk deciding to write about a pair of shoes, you know, again, we've lost the plot.

• 54:38Speaker 00

  It wasn't like people in the White House were like, oh, yeah.

• 54:42Michelle Obama?

  It was.

• 54:43Speaker 00

  Fashion.

• 54:43Michelle Obama?

  It was in fact the opposite.

• 54:45Speaker 00

  It was very, it was not that type of environment.

• 54:48Michelle Obama?

  People didn't, you know, there were people who didn't respect the work. They had no clue. I mean, of that pressure that is on the first lady. And I will say the first lady because it's, it's a woman's burden of getting up every day and showing up in a readied way. And the women who work in the White House, I mean, many of them were, you know, struggling. As well, especially on foreign travel. I mean, one of the things that we had to do with the State Department, which they failed to understand is that we needed a lot of really important details to make the fashion on foreign trips work. Because you have to think about colors.

• 55:33Michelle Obama?

  What colors prints could be insulting, could be inclusive? We'd have to know things like weather. Is it going to rain? Because you can't show up with a silk blouse if you're going to be standing in the pouring rain. The pavement, you know, cobblestone versus grass versus, you know, all of that kind of stuff, which Meredith would have to at alone, push to get this, what seemed like meaningless information from high level officials that could make or break the whole trip.

• 56:10Speaker 01

  So many powerful women, especially women of color, related to your journey. And the tight rope walk of even having to decide with such discernment and so much intention, what you put on your body, how you do your hair, how you present yourself to the world.

• 56:29Speaker 00

  I knew like if something went wrong with the designer, you know, if it was the wrong thing, the wrong person, the wrong time, even just the zipper breaks, she falls down, her heels break? Like, you've never seen her fall down because I checked everything. You've never seen her zipper pop because I checked the zipper. You know what I mean? So like.

• 56:50Speaker 01

  We can't have our first black first lady falling down.

• 56:52Michelle Obama?

  No, no, no.

• 56:53Speaker 01

  That was Meredith's duty.

• 56:55Michelle Obama?

  That was the biggest goal, getting out of the eight years without falling. And it's like.

• 57:00Speaker 00

  Because really, when you say tight rope, sometimes it literally was like a set of slippery stairs, you know? She's walking down in three inch heels or whatever. So, yeah, it was really just.

• 57:13Speaker 00

  Keeping that all in mind and also like, I just didn't, I didn't want to bring any negativity. I was like, let it not, let me not be the one to bring negativity into the space.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  Just for listeners who don't really have context, like, the role that you are describing doesn't exist. This is one, one of one. You are one of one.

• 57:33Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:34Speaker 01

  So I want to give you your flowers. And now that we understand the practicality, the logistic, the logistics of the job, I want to talk about the creativity and the storytelling. Because I know that that's, that's what makes your heart beat. That's what gets you up in the morning and makes you excited to do the logistics and that you're kind of like a professional schlepper in addition to being like this incredible visionary stylist. So let's talk about the storytelling. Because that is so, such a big part of styling and the two of you have woven together this incredible fashion narrative over the years together. Talk to me about what, what were the stories you were trying to tell?

• 58:17Speaker 01

  Both in the White House and after.

• 58:20Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, it's different for everything. Everything is so specific. You relish the moments of the state dinners or, you know, the events where you feel like, okay, we can like have a little bit of more fashion and not feel nervous about it. Not feel like, oh, this is going to take away from something. It's part of it, you know? Like, it's part of it for a first lady to show up looking beautiful, you know, as a representation.

• 58:50Speaker 01

  And the people relish in it. They're waiting with bated breath to see what she turns up in.

• 58:54Speaker 00

  Absolutely. So it's true, there were a ton of like, I mean, I would say, even now, like logistics just like take over everything, I feel like, in creative spaces, unless you have a certain setup, which I don't know a lot of people that do. But that creative, that storytelling was always for me just a lot of instinct, frankly, and just like taking in a lot of, taking in a lot of information and then allowing it to come out however it would. And that means like I'm keeping up with shows, I'm keeping up with designers, I'm keeping up with new designers, I'm keeping up with politics, I'm keeping up with what's going on internally, I'm keeping up with the East

• 59:39Speaker 00

  Wing, I'm keeping up, you know, so it's like you take in all this information and like it would just always come back to like my process. Like I established and built a process for myself of how I procured clothing, how I interfaced with designers, how I pulled things and then putting them together upstairs. Like I would spend all the time I had laying things out, like digesting it, trying it on myself because we're about the same height and like

• 1:00:06Speaker 01

  It's convenient.

• 1:00:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I kind of became

• 1:00:08Speaker 01

  The fit model?

• 1:00:09Speaker 00

  A little bit of a fit model.

• 1:00:11Michelle Obama?

  Because some things I was like, I couldn't understand it on the rack. It was like, huh?

• 1:00:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, and it's also like, things always look different on the body. So it's like helpful to see, you know, to try on. So really, it would just be that. Like, I would just, over the years especially, I just started to trust more and more like what my vision was.

• 1:00:30Michelle Obama?

  And we also never allowed anybody else to dress me for a fashion shoot because we couldn't count on somebody not putting us in a designer that could, you know, was doing something wrong or get you in trouble. And the fashion editors aren't thinking like that. They're thinking, even with Vogue, and I want to thank Anna Wintour for allowing us the flexibility. I mean, the first time I was on the cover of Vogue, I was wearing J. Crew. I know Anna wasn't really happy about that. But we were also sending a message that this Vogue cover was about something bigger than fashion. And fortunately, every editor

• 1:01:13Michelle Obama?

  Understood that, you know, so while there were those that took it too seriously, we had so much support from the fashion community, the fashion industry, as they got to know us to understand this bigger story

• 1:01:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:01:27Michelle Obama?

  that we were trying to tell. And we got a lot of really good support.

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I can speak to that.

• 1:01:34Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:34Speaker 01

  As a fashion editor at the time.

• 1:01:36Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  I don't know if you would remember this moment, but it was my first shoot ever.

• 1:01:42Michelle Obama?

  I remember for sure because it was, it was Essence.

• 1:01:46Speaker 01

  It was Ebony.

• 1:01:47Michelle Obama?

  It was Ebony.

• 1:01:49Speaker 01

  Your first solo Ebony cover.

• 1:01:50Michelle Obama?

  I wore that feather.

• 1:01:52Speaker 01

  Yes, your black McQueen suit.

• 1:01:54Michelle Obama?

  With the McQueen suit with the.

• 1:01:57Speaker 01

  But the fun backstory here is that, and I don't even know if you know this, but before you arrived on set, we had racks for you.

• 1:02:06Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  And custom made pieces. And the stylist was just, you know, stressed.

• 1:02:13Michelle Obama?

  Poor thing.

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  And then minutes before you arrived, we get this phone call and we hear, she's going to arrive in her own clothes and she's going to shoot in her own clothes. And while it sent the stylist in a tizzy, my boss, Harriet Cole, who I have to shout out, took it. She had a big smile on her face and she said, that's what we're going to do then. We are pivoting. There was something so incredibly awesome about that. From the very first moment that you stepped on the scene, you redefine the terms of how you were going to play this fashion game. And those who got it, got it.

• 1:02:55Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:02:56Speaker 01

  It was powerful. I just, I'm curious, were you like that day, did you know that? I know it happened at Vogue as well. Was this a thing that you all sort of did?

• 1:03:06Michelle Obama?

  I mean, I think it was a part of. Us understanding that I had to be in complete control of my image. I had gotten burned by not by not being really in control of the narrative of me. And I it was it just became something that I knew I needed to do. It's important for me to define me to America. Yes, because I'm black, because I was the first, because there were opponents on both

• 1:03:48Michelle Obama?

  sides. It wasn't just Republicans. It was some of our, my husband's Democratic opponents who were, you know, who were going to play the race card and and use our otherness against us. So and we talked about this, that I have to show up authentically me, because if I'm going to get dinged, it's going to be dinged, I'm going to get dinged. It's going to be the real me that's going to get dinged. It's going to be the clothes I chose to wear, not somebody else's clothes. It's going to be the words I said and not what somebody put in my mouth. It's going to be the America understanding me, you know, like me, don't

• 1:04:28Michelle Obama?

  like me, but don't like the made up version of me. That I think I would have more trouble, I would have had more trouble with than, you know, than the opposite. So.

• 1:04:41Speaker 00

  And also, I just respectfully cannot imagine you showing up to a photo shoot and trying on clothes for two hours or whatever before a shoot.

• 1:04:50Speaker 01

  A matter of practicality.

• 1:04:52Speaker 00

  I've never seen anything even close to that occur. I mean, it's just not, it's it's not prepared. What if she didn't like anything? What if nothing fit? What if they had a wrong measurements? Like, there's just a million things that could go wrong. Also, given what era this is, is she campaigning? Like, is she going to come to a shoot? And do you know what I mean? Like, these are the things that maybe differentiate her as a public figure, first lady, incoming first lady from a celebrity? I don't know. But like, I would just never even imagine something like that happening.

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, it's interesting that you're contextualizing it in this in this way, because.

• 1:05:33Speaker 01

  You know, that cover was June 2008 for the September. That was when we shot. It was for the September issue cover, which is typically the fashion issue. And so it was, it felt like you had already understood the power of what you put on your body and what it can do. And so it was genius for you to say, I'm going to control my narrative. I'm going to control my image and I'm going to do it respectfully.

• 1:06:03Michelle Obama?

  You know, the story that we wanted to tell was inclusion, you know, which started with the selection of Jason Wu as, to design my, both of my inaugural gowns. It's an opportunity. It's an American opportunity. So we wanted to make sure that dressing me, which was a big deal, we knew, became an American opportunity. It became something that all designers that could aspire to if they were ready for it. Right? So if I have the body that is going to sort of showcase it, I felt it was my responsibility

• 1:06:45Michelle Obama?

  as the First Lady of the United States of America to wear American designers. That was an easy thing. We never ran out of wonderful things to do. And we believed in the immigrant story of the, which is, which is part of the American story. I will say it and continue to say it. We are all immigrants in one way, shape or form. It is the foundation and the basis of this country. So being able, and that is so true in the fashion industry. We would not have the clothes on our backs if it were not for immigrants coming here with tools and skills and the abilities, as all of our ancestors did, to make this country what it is today.

• 1:07:30Michelle Obama?

  And what better way to hail them than to bring up the Jason Wu's and the Prubbles and the Maria Cordnejos? I mean, what a powerful way to talk about fashion without talking about fashion.

• 1:07:47Speaker 01

  There was a mic, if I could just, I would just rock that one right now. That was so riveting. And I remember vividly living through those. That was fashion history. And while you weren't trying to make it the story, it was a huge story for folks like me in the fashion industry and for anyone. I mean, speaking about your influence on fashion, I think about that White House black market dress that you wore on The View. It was, I think, $137, $127, $24 or something. Sold out at their three, over 300 stores. And then there was a two and a half month waitlist for that dress.

• 1:08:29Speaker 01

  I mean, the incredible influence that you had cannot be understated. Although I know that you all are so intentional. And that's what I love about hearing more about your process.

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• 1:13:09Speaker 01

  We have to talk about post White House fashion because you're saying, you know, at that time, you were not representing yourself.

• 1:13:17Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  But now you are.

• 1:13:19Michelle Obama?

  All of it, right?

• 1:13:21Speaker 01

  Your style evolution has just captivated so many people who love fashion and those who maybe weren't thinking about fashion until they saw how good you looked at your book tour. So for me, as an outsider, your Becoming Book Tour was really kind of this defining moment in your style evolution where you stepped out and said, honey, I am going to wear the Balenciaga boots that are thigh high, that are sparkly with the yellow dress. And like, that was another moment that blew up the internet. And I remember like, the girlies going, wow. I mean, everybody was talking about that look, that moment. So we have to talk about the Balenciaga boots. And just...

• 1:14:07Speaker 01

  Really beyond the boots, was there like a post White House meeting? Was there a mood board? Was there like a decision where you're like, my handcuffs are off? Let's go crazy? Let's have more fun? Let's be bolder? What was that conversation like?

• 1:14:25Speaker 00

  I mean, really, the Becoming book tour, we talked and I had put together some images and things because it was different, you know? It was like, oh, we're going into a new era and the book itself was like massive. I mean, it was a movement. It was unprecedented. So when we spoke about the tour, I mean, I just remember us being aligned. It was like pants, suits.

• 1:14:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:52Speaker 00

  Because we had done so many dresses.

• 1:14:55Speaker 01

  First lady dresses. It's like, oh, enough of that.

• 1:14:58Speaker 00

  There's so much about a dress that defines, a dress or skirt that defines the role of first lady and has for so many years. So it was like, we're not going to do any, except for the Balenciaga. But we're not going to do any of that. We're going to do these like strong suits and sort of updated pants and tops. And so really that was like the starting point and our conversation. And then, I don't know if you want to say more on that.

• 1:15:27Speaker 01

  You were so reserved about the most fun part of your style evolution.

• 1:15:32Michelle Obama?

  And it was fun and I will say it was, it was really a lot of fun. It started with that. It was like, okay, we're free.

• 1:15:39Speaker 01

  Did you feel that liberation?

• 1:15:40Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:42Speaker 01

  You could see it. You could feel it.

• 1:15:43Michelle Obama?

  We, and we talked about it. And also I felt like I wanted my team to feel like they could play. I mean, for eight years, some of the most creative people work with me and we were in a bit of a box. It was a great box. I always, always felt good, always looked good. It was a well-managed box, not mad at the box, but it was still a box.

• 1:16:08Speaker 01

  A box.

• 1:16:09Michelle Obama?

  And knowing that, when you have creative people who have, but not, you can't do this and no, you know? That that's. No fun for them.

• 1:16:20Speaker 00

  Stifling.

• 1:16:21Michelle Obama?

  It's stifling. So I was like, okay, Mira, you know.

• 1:16:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm pretty out there. So there's still things I feel like I can't do. I mean, I'm not, you know what I mean? Like, I don't feel like I'm so free. I'm just totally free, like, no.

• 1:16:37Speaker 00

  But yeah, I mean, it was, it was cool. Like, a lot of things that she hadn't worn, and some that she had. I mean, she'd worn some fabulous suits in the White House, too. I think it was just the whole energy of the tour and then just how beautiful everything was, like, every suit, every pant, like, we.

• 1:16:54Speaker 01

  But how'd you get her in those boots?

• 1:16:56Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:16:57Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah, the boots. Okay, the boots specifically.

• 1:16:59Speaker 00

  Encourage her.

• 1:17:00Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, she did. Yeah, she showed me the boots and I was like, oh, oh, my God, they took my breath away.

• 1:17:08Speaker 01

  Mine, too, right?

• 1:17:09Speaker 00

  Mrs. Obama, yes. But that whole, the whole look was like a big process. Like, all of these looks, it's not like, oh, I went to the store, picked it up, threw it in a bag, came over. Like, it's a whole process. So that Balenci, it was like Balenciaga Spring 2019 show, I saw, there was a version in blue and a version in yellow. And I was like, hmm, the yellow's kind of different. Like, the yellow, there's something a little tacky about it in a way.

• 1:17:41Michelle Obama?

  And that was probably the part, too, was like, she'll never go for the yellow.

• 1:17:45Speaker 00

  But also, and by the way, this was like, just for people that are following fashion, and it, this was pre any Balenciaga scandal, pre any Demna scandal. But so, I got the look, it, it was a skirt and a top, actually, it wasn't a dress. And we fit that look like five times. Like, there's certain looks that we would fit over and over and over again because

• 1:18:06Speaker 01

  To get it right.

• 1:18:07Speaker 00

  To get it right, and also with the calendar, sometimes it would be like, maybe it's for this, and then that thing would happen, we went with something else.

• 1:18:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:18:13Speaker 00

  So then we come into the next fitting. So it was like, maybe it's for this. So I really thought it was

• 1:18:16Speaker 01

  Puzzle pieces.

• 1:18:17Speaker 00

  I never thought it was gonna be worn. I was like, it's never gonna be worn, I'm gonna have to write them an email and be like, I'm so sorry, like, we love it, I hope she can wear it in the future, but it just didn't, you know, it was.

• 1:18:25Michelle Obama?

  She's got the letter.

• 1:18:27Speaker 00

  I was, yeah, I mean, I've written that before. Um, but I had a different shoe with it and I, I think at first, because I didn't want to pull that boot if it was just gonna, like, she was gonna be like, no, I don't feel like putting that on, like, so I showed you a picture of it and then I brought the boots at the next fitting and the things with, the thing with those boots are, you have to, you know, kind of slide them down, the fabric down and then put your foot in and put it on like a pair of pantyhose. So it takes a minute, you know, and backstage before a big appearance, she didn't always want to be bothered doing stuff like that, so I just wasn't sure.

• 1:19:04Michelle Obama?

  There's many a joke, like, you know, you get something pretty and then you put it on and then I'm like, this is ridiculous.

• 1:19:11Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:19:11Michelle Obama?

  There's no way. So it's like, three of us are-

• 1:19:13Speaker 01

  You said yes on the paper. On paper, you said yes.

• 1:19:15Michelle Obama?

  I was like, I didn't say no, right?

• 1:19:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:19:18Michelle Obama?

  There were also those. I was like-

• 1:19:20Speaker 00

  I could do that. I could do that.

• 1:19:22Speaker 01

  But in your mind, are you thinking, there's no way I'm getting these boots up this woman's

• 1:19:26Speaker 00

  Pretty much because I'm used to being disappointed. So I'm like-

• 1:19:27Speaker 01

  You were braiding yourself.

• 1:19:28Speaker 00

  I'm like, she's not gonna do it. I'm gonna get it, she's not gonna do it. But I'll get it, fine.

• 1:19:32Speaker 01

  So you're writing the email in your mind already, regretfully, we couldn't get it, get her across the line.

• 1:19:37Speaker 00

  Once she puts them on, she's not gonna want to do this. So, but yeah, we ju, I brought them in, we tried them on, we prepped them, so we knew how to get them on, because it's true, there's like a time limit. And once that time limit is up, the item is out the door.

• 1:19:53Speaker 01

  With your hopes and dreams.

• 1:19:55Speaker 00

  Exactly. So I'm like, always looking at stuff and sometimes I don't get it right, but I'm like, okay, gotta make sure I get this on quickly. Um-

• 1:20:03Speaker 01

  Like a science experiment.

• 1:20:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:20:05Michelle Obama?

  But she- And I will make fun of a crazy thing that I'm putting on. I'm like, look, this is ridiculous. It's like, and I was making fun of the boots, you know, oh wow, we were putting them on the first time, because it took a lot of work. I mean, because if, it would be better if they were all just the stretch material, which I love-

• 1:20:24Speaker 00

  And here, she's always got a suggestion.

• 1:20:25Michelle Obama?

  And I love a boot like that. And I love a boot, like-

• 1:20:29Speaker 01

  Maybe need a line of boots at some point. I'm just saying.

• 1:20:32Michelle Obama?

  I'm very into boots. I love boots more than I love stockings, right? So, all throughout the White House, cold weather- Meredith knew that I wanted a boot, a tight fitting boot that like hugged the leg. That was the inspiration for the second inauguration parade look. You know, I had these amazing boots that I wanted them to fit like a glove, right? So that they wouldn't add bulk to your leg.

• 1:20:59Speaker 01

  So you did wear pantyhose the first inauguration?

• 1:21:01Michelle Obama?

  Which was ridiculous. It was, I was freezing. Freezing cold, freezing cold. So I was like, don't want to be cold anymore. So I was very into boots. So she knew she could get me on the boot, but it was just the putting them on that was nuts.

• 1:21:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:21:15Michelle Obama?

  And I was like, do I want to have my hair on and am I putting the skirt on first? It just didn't make sense. But once they got on.

• 1:21:24Speaker 01

  Then?

• 1:21:25Michelle Obama?

  They were amazing, right? So I thought, okay, New York, New York is a place, like I wouldn't have done that.

• 1:21:32Speaker 01

  Sarah Jessica Parker, AKA Carrie Bradshaw. Like that's the moment you break those boots out.

• 1:21:37Michelle Obama?

  Fashion over the top, right?

• 1:21:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:21:39Michelle Obama?

  I mean, I wouldn't do that, those boots in Colorado, right? I mean, you also think, yeah, you want to be special, but I was like, we could get away with this. In the New York show at the big enough arena, the boots won't look like, you know, a sore thumb in the middle of a, you know? Cause I also think like that, it's like, is it too much?

• 1:21:58Speaker 01

  No, it stole the show though, even in the massive, on that massive Barclays stage.

• 1:22:04Speaker 00

  And there wasn't even a good picture of the boots. Like there wasn't.

• 1:22:07Speaker 01

  I saw a lot of good pictures of those boots on the internet.

• 1:22:09Michelle Obama?

  Did you really?

• 1:22:09Speaker 00

  There were like two, the pictures weren't even that great. Like, so I was surprised that people even really registered it because they were like from the side. You know, they weren't like posed really super, super high definition, clear photos. So I was just like, people even gonna like see this?

• 1:22:26Speaker 01

  It's in our minds. It's in our memories.

• 1:22:28Michelle Obama?

  The imagination.

• 1:22:29Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:22:30Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, I know Barack is like, where are those boots anyway?

• 1:22:34Speaker 01

  Uh oh, Mr. Obama enjoyed those boots as well.

• 1:22:39Michelle Obama?

  What you doing with those boots?

• 1:22:40Speaker 01

  Bring those back. Are those in a museum somewhere? Let's haul those in, have some fun in those boots. On the topic of boots.

• 1:22:49Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 1:22:49Speaker 01

  We also need to talk about the Stuart Weitzman boots. During Biden's inauguration, because you told me a fun story about these boots that

• 1:22:59Speaker 00

  It's not really fun.

• 1:23:00Speaker 01

  It's kind of, well, it's a bit grim. It's a little dark. But I do think it's relatable in this moment. And I think just, it speaks to your practicality as a Capricorn.

• 1:23:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:23:10Speaker 01

  But also this moment that we're in, where we all are sort of feeling a certain uncertainty in the air that maybe you felt at the inauguration, just after, we all know what happened, January 6. And there was this feeling in the air of, we might have to run.

• 1:23:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:23:31Speaker 01

  So tell us the story behind the boots that you put her in that day. And, and what was going through your mind? This is the psychology piece of your brain.

• 1:23:41Speaker 00

  Well, so, I mean, it's the whole look, first of all. So we did Sergio Hudson. And he's amazing. And it was such, it was just that moment to me, outside of any of the context of the politics. It was such an amazing moment for him as a designer, and I was so honored to be a part of it. But we had prepped that look around the demands and uncertainty of inauguration day anyway, which are really about being cold. So I had like multiple sweaters with multiple closures and multiple layers underneath and everything you could think of, in case it was this temperature or that temperature.

• 1:24:24Speaker 00

  And then the shoe, I had Stuart Weitzman pumps or the boots. And when we were in the fitting and talking about it, she said to me, I want to be able to run. I was like, whoa, okay, wow, that's intense. But I had already, you know, I already prepared a selection of options. So it was like I had them there, but just putting it into that framework. And I didn't go to the inauguration. You only went with one person, I think.

• 1:24:52Speaker 01

  And even that was by design, right?

• 1:24:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:24:54Speaker 01

  For your own safety.

• 1:24:55Speaker 00

  Yeah. So that was different because normally we would always go, like hair, makeup, me, we would always go to a big event like that and be In the hold in case there was any issues to touch her up and anything like that. And so, yeah, that was a crazy year and she was wearing a mask. As part of the inaugural festivities, which

• 1:25:15Speaker 01

  Part of the ensemble.

• 1:25:15Speaker 00

  The ensemble.

• 1:25:16Michelle Obama?

  The mask.

• 1:25:17Speaker 00

  But it really, and not to like, not minimizing or anything a mask, but it did sort of set the outfit off because.

• 1:25:25Michelle Obama?

  Nothing like a mask.

• 1:25:26Speaker 00

  It really did bring all the focus.

• 1:25:28Speaker 01

  Really bring out the hair.

• 1:25:29Speaker 00

  To the hair and the outfit, but without that mask, it would.

• 1:25:33Michelle Obama?

  It would have just been a suit.

• 1:25:35Speaker 00

  It would have been good, it would have been good, but that really like, it just brought all your attention to those elements.

• 1:25:41Speaker 01

  Key pieces of the look.

• 1:25:43Speaker 00

  Hadn't happened before, because that hadn't happened with her publicly before, so.

• 1:25:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:25:48Speaker 00

  Mask was custom made, Christie Rilling, shout out.

• 1:25:51Speaker 01

  Okay. Well, luckily you did not have to run that day.

• 1:25:54Michelle Obama?

  Thank goodness, but we were prepared, you know, and that's half of, you know, the fashion story. One of the fashion stories was be ready, you know, be ready to be able to do the job, right?

• 1:26:09Speaker 00

  And I would never in that moment say.

• 1:26:11Michelle Obama?

  Whatever the job is.

• 1:26:12Speaker 00

  I would never in that moment be like, oh no, you really have to wear this orange stiletto because it's so gor- like, I would never, do you know what I mean? Like, so I think that.

• 1:26:19Speaker 01

  That's why you lasted all these years, girl.

• 1:26:20Speaker 00

  That is one of the points of this conversation of like, why these things matter more. Why these are bigger, why you can't, we've talked several times about being bogged down by different elements, whether it's fashion or haters or whatever. Like, it's so easy to get bogged down by all of that, so.

• 1:26:39Michelle Obama?

  And the other part of the story is, was my comfort, right? And that's a big part of.

• 1:26:46Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 1:26:47Michelle Obama?

  The fashion, fashion message to women, to all people, but to women in particular, because.

• 1:26:55Michelle Obama?

  You know, fashion can be fun, but it could also be a straitjacket, right? I mean, you know, tiptoeing around in heels that hurt your feet, in clothes that are slipping off, in things that don't stay up, in corsets that, and I've done it all. Um, the, um, the chain link, um, Versace gown. Beautiful, one of my favorite gowns. That gown weighed, um, about...

• 1:27:23Speaker 00

  I found out and I, it's in the book, but I can't recall.

• 1:27:26Michelle Obama?

  10, 15 pounds.

• 1:27:28Speaker 00

  You have to read the book to find out. Yeah, it's in there.

• 1:27:32Michelle Obama?

  And I had to wear that for three hours, stand in a photo line. I had to, you know, dance and I had to, you know, it's not a one runway look. It's not a going on the red carpet and sitting at the Emmys. I mean, I'm, I'm working at a state dinner. Um, uh, and luckily I'm in shape. So I have done it, you know, I've done it all, right? And I believe in that beauty and sometimes the impractical beauty of fashion, right? It is, is fun, but like for, for most of us as women, I, I want to promote us feeling good in the clothes, not the, I, I want to wear the clothes. I don't want the clothes to wear me.

• 1:28:16Michelle Obama?

  Um, and I, I think, you know, I want to encourage women to, you know, make choices about fashion that are good for them. And I think that that's something that we did for eight years and beyond, that I didn't wear it and, and if, if I didn't love it, if I didn't feel wonderful in it, because that's the way a, uh, fashion disappears and becomes a part of your story. Like, like it's not wearing you. And so because of that, I could focus on kids. I could focus on the military families. I could focus on the people who were right there in front of me. I could hug somebody, wrap my arms around somebody,

• 1:29:00Michelle Obama?

  have somebody cry on my shoulder and not be worried about what I was wearing. And that helped with my authenticity. Right? Because ultimately, I'm a woman who loves clothes, but I'm a woman who loves. And that, to me, Meredith helped me find clothes that let that shine through. And I want us as women to embrace that, to have that be the first thing that we think about when we put something on. Does it make us feel like we can love? Does it make us feel like we can just be our true selves? And I had to be that for eight years.

• 1:29:42Michelle Obama?

  I couldn't do the job wearing some costume or tiptoeing around in something that was on point, but not me. And the brilliance of Meredith Coop was that, and maybe this is her psychology degree. I think a lot of it is her upbringing.

• 1:30:01Speaker 01

  That was a question I forgot to answer. That you asked me, I forgot.

• 1:30:05Michelle Obama?

  But I think what Meredith did for me, what makes her such a special stylist, and I know she does this for other clients, because I have friends who've worked with her as well, people of all backgrounds, all sizes, all occupations, is that she saw me. She learned who I was. She knows who I am.

• 1:30:27Speaker 01

  I think the show is something about Meredith. There's something about Meredith. I don't know how you. You are a magical unicorn in the world of fashion. Thank you both so much. What a beautiful fashion love story that you both had. And I'm just so honored to be able to be part of documenting this moment in history, these many fashion moments throughout history. And Meredith, to introduce you to America.

• 1:30:55Speaker 00

  Hello.

• 1:30:55Speaker 01

  Let's go.

• 1:30:56Speaker 00

  You can call me Mare. You don't have to be my full name.

• 1:30:58Speaker 01

  Something about Mare. Well, this has been such a delight. Thank you both so much.

• 1:31:01Michelle Obama?

  Thank you, Elaine. You're amazing. I love you to death. Thank you for this.

• 1:31:05Speaker 00

  Love you.

• 1:31:06Michelle Obama?

  Thank you.

• 1:31:29Speaker 06

  I'm Emma Grede, host of Aspire with Emma Grede, the podcast where I sit down with people who don't just dream big, they build big. If you love Michelle and Craig on IMO, just wait until you hear their episode on my show. Michelle told me about the moment at 26, when she lost her father and her best friend in the same year. It made her walk away from her corporate law career to figure out her why. That's the kind of conversation you get on Aspire. We talk about mindset, ambition, and doing the work that actually moves the needle. So if you're ready to raise your standards and take charge of the life you're building, Aspire is where you start. Follow and listen to Aspire with me, Emma Grede, available wherever you get your podcasts.