Episode 170: Indiana State Fair Coliseum Explosion

emergency management is important DONATE TO LUTHERAN SETTLEMENT HOUSE: https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/1J0GSDKBO4TLV/ref=hz_ls_biz_ex check out our TOUR (new dates added!):April 29: New York Cityhttps://sonyhall.com/events/well-theres-your-problem/?id=18162April 30: Somerville Mass (SOLD OUT ALREADY SORRY!)https://artsatthearmory.org/events/bill-blumenreich-presents-well-theres-your-problem-podcast-2/May 1: Somerville Mass (SOLD OUT!)https://thewilbur.com/armory/artist/wtyp/May 2: New York City (SOLD OUT!)https://www.ticketweb.com/event/well-theres-your-problem-sony-hall-tickets/13918973May 3: Washington DChttps://www.unionstagepresents.com/shows/well-theres-your-problem-podcast/May 4: Philadelphia, PAhttps://concerts.livenation.com/well-theres-your-problem-podcast-philadelphia-pennsylvania-05-04-2025/event/0200615211C27E44 see gareth on RAILNATTER: https://www.youtube.com/@GarethDennisTVOur Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/wtyppod/ Send us stuff! our address:Well There's Your Podcasting CompanyPO Box 26929 Philadelphia, PA 19134DO NOT SEND US LETTER BOMBS thanks in advance in the commercial: Local Forecast - Elevator Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Liam McAnderson?

  I will, I will simply buy a new audio interface.

• 0:03November Kelly?

  Okay. Okay. This is, that, that's, I don't know if that's the most efficient way of doing that, but it doesn't matter.

• 0:10Speaker 02

  I will buy a new house, though, dude. You computer'd it.

• 0:14Justin Roczniak?

  Just completely replace every aspect of your life around Zencastr.

• 0:18November Kelly?

  I've bought a new audio interface every week. The podcast is not, it's not even breaking even at this point.

• 0:27Liam McAnderson?

  I, uh, yeah, my, my, my, uh, tech setup is how I would, how, how would you describe it? Ship of Theseus.

• 0:34November Kelly?

  I'm about to have to take the ship of Theseus out of the harbor because I'm gonna have to move this computer.

• 0:41Justin Roczniak?

  All your loose hard drives are gonna be rolling around.

• 0:44November Kelly?

  This, this, this computer is gonna have to, to, to get out of this corner, out of the apartment, into a Nissan Juke. And, and then across town.

• 0:56Liam McAnderson?

  A Juke.

• 0:57November Kelly?

  I, I, I don't know. That's what the, the car rental place had. And then into the new apartment, down a really narrow flight of stairs.

• 1:07November Kelly?

  Glasgow Tenement stair type situation. Ah, yes. Uh, into, into, into the new flats. Um, and yeah, so it, it, I have the travel rig as a backup. I have a laptop and a microphone for that. So if I suddenly sound worse for a while, it is because something has gone, something else has gone wrong in the move. Oh my God.

• 1:32Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, moving is the most exciting thing. Uh, my favorite thing, and my favorite thing especially is to move with Roz, who is the worst mover in the world.

• 1:39November Kelly?

  Well, what I, what I, what I've discovered I don't like doing.

• 1:42Justin Roczniak?

  I don't like moving.

• 1:43Liam McAnderson?

  I know you don't.

• 1:44November Kelly?

  Is, is, is having, having to give your landlord or the letting agency like an ultimatum, like a full on like, the, the full on, this is unacceptable letter. Before you've even moved in.

• 1:56Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, you are in a tough pickle.

• 1:59November Kelly?

  I'm, I'm in a situation, I'm in a situation because I, I rented a furnished flat and they decided the day before giving me the keys to take half the furniture out of it. And then go, is that okay? And I have to now go, no, it isn't.

• 2:15Justin Roczniak?

  No, it is not.

• 2:16Liam McAnderson?

  Give me my shit back. Give me your shit back.

• 2:19November Kelly?

  Yeah, give me your shit back in the apartment or like, give me like a reduction on the rent, you know?

• 2:26Speaker 02

  I hate landlords. I hate leasing agencies. I

• 2:30November Kelly?

  We should sync. We should do the sync.

• 2:32Justin Roczniak?

  We should probably do the sync. Yeah. Three, two, one. Mark. Okie dokie.

• 2:39Liam McAnderson?

  I like that Devon put in the notes or put in when they flash something up. I left this in so you can see how good they're getting at it. I'm so proud of them.

• 2:49Liam McAnderson?

  That did make my day. That did make my day.

• 2:51Speaker 02

  Beautiful. Thanks, Devon.

• 2:53November Kelly?

  It's positive reinforcement, you know?

• 2:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:55November Kelly?

  It's very important.

• 2:56Liam McAnderson?

  Positive reinforcement works on me. Negative reinforcement doesn't because I'll just ignore you.

• 3:01Speaker 02

  I also love that we destroyed it later in that episode. It was, that was also beautiful. Beautiful symmetry.

• 3:07Speaker 02

  Something went wrong later in the episode and, and, and we, we just undid all that good work. And you know what? That's why, that's why they keep coming back. They love it. Not Devon. Devon would rather we were more professional. I mean, the, the hogs keep coming back. They love the chaos.

• 3:21Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah. Enjoy your slop.

• 3:24Justin Roczniak?

  All right.

• 3:25Speaker 02

  Let's do this.

• 3:26Justin Roczniak?

  Hello and welcome to, well, there's your problem. It's a podcast about engineering disasters with slides. I'm Justin Rosnick. I'm the person who's talking right now. My pronouns are he and him. Okay, go.

• 3:38November Kelly?

  I'm November Kelly. I'm the person who's talking now. My pronouns are she and her. Yay, Liam.

• 3:42Liam McAnderson?

  Yay, Liam. Hi, I'm Liam McAnderson. I'm about to avenge Nova's apartment calamity.

• 3:47November Kelly?

  Please, please.

• 3:48Liam McAnderson?

  You have my sword. My pronouns are he and him. And with us, we have not a guest, not a guest.

• 3:54Speaker 02

  No, my name is Gareth Dennis. Hello, I'm also a, a co-host temporarily. Don't worry, everyone. You'll get rid of me soon.

• 4:02Speaker 02

  Of, that sounded like I know my own demise is inbound. My pronouns are he and him, of course, but.

• 4:07November Kelly?

  We put you on like a performance improvement plan after like two episodes. It's like, we're really trying to line shit up. We've got you moved to a basement office. You're just getting the sense that the walls are closing in a bit. Yeah.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  I did wonder, I did wonder about the damp.

• 4:22Justin Roczniak?

  Gareth's stapler.

• 4:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, you withdrew, you withdrew my toilet privileges as well. I was, I did wonder about that.

• 4:33Speaker 02

  Let's do an episode. Oh, no. But first, we have to advertise something that's, I mean, I'm amazed that we have any spaces left, given how well it's been selling.

• 4:41November Kelly?

  The goddamn tour.

• 4:44Justin Roczniak?

  No, the announcements are on the second slide.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  Oh, you're right. I keep doing this. I keep jumping ahead.

• 4:51Speaker 02

  I am now a performance review.

• 4:53Liam McAnderson?

  You are actually gonna be guillotined there, bud. Sorry. I know you have a family, but it's time to go.

• 4:58Justin Roczniak?

  That's a demerit right there. Yeah.

• 5:01Speaker 02

  God damn it. That's the cause in Fired for Cause.

• 5:08Speaker 02

  What's going on? Tell us what's happening, Ross.

• 5:11Justin Roczniak?

  What you see in the screen in front of you is the interior of the Indiana State Fair Coliseum.

• 5:18November Kelly?

  Oh, shitty view. This is, this is on ticketmaster, like, partially obstructed.

• 5:25Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 5:25Liam McAnderson?

  I like the guy standing here, bottom right, in the, I mean, it's a grayscale photo, but like, clearly with his arms crossed, just survey the day. I was like, God, that's not gonna buff out, is it?

• 5:35November Kelly?

  That's the official pose of, well, there's your problem. That's, you hit one of these, you know?

• 5:42Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. That guy is saying, well, there's your problem.

• 5:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Also, is that pinata dog that's also just on some remaining concrete?

• 5:51Justin Roczniak?

  Possibly, yeah. Golly. So you may notice there are some seats missing and a wall has fallen over.

• 5:58Liam McAnderson?

  Whoops.

• 5:59Justin Roczniak?

  Today, we're gonna talk about the 1963 Indiana State Fair Coliseum explosion.

• 6:06November Kelly?

  Ooh, okay.

• 6:07Justin Roczniak?

  Yes. Now, there's a quote from the Reverend Fred Rogers that's often dragged out when there's a tragedy or a disaster or something.

• 6:17Liam McAnderson?

  Or Trump wins somehow.

• 6:19Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly. That sounds unlikely.

• 6:23November Kelly?

  Can you believe that Kamala Harris is gonna be president?

• 6:27Justin Roczniak?

  Fred Rogers said, "When I was a boy and I would see scary things in the news, my mother would say to me, 'Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping.' To this day, especially in times of disaster, I remember my mother's words and I am always comforted by realizing there are still so many helpers, so many caring people in this world."

• 6:46Speaker 02

  Sure. It's beautiful.

• 6:47Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, that's for kids. That's not for you.

• 6:50Justin Roczniak?

  Today, we're gonna learn what happens when there are a lot of helpers.

• 6:54Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, boy.

• 6:55Justin Roczniak?

  Maybe too many of them.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 7:00Speaker 02

  Well.

• 7:01November Kelly?

  Crush my childhood sense of security.

• 7:03Justin Roczniak?

  Exactly.

• 7:06Justin Roczniak?

  But first, we have to do announcements.

• 7:09November Kelly?

  Fake me out. I don't have a drop for this.

• 7:11Justin Roczniak?

  Exactly. There's no, no announcements drop.

• 7:16Liam McAnderson?

  I was gonna say a trademark.

• 7:17Justin Roczniak?

  Announcements, announcements, announcements.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  There we go. Let's say announcements. There we go. Right. Announcements.

• 7:25Justin Roczniak?

  No, no, no. The, the, the New York City and Boston shows that we advertised earlier have sold out. We have added an extra New York City show and an extra Boston show. Links to tickets for that will be in the description. They're on the 29th and 30th of April, respectively, I believe.

• 7:46November Kelly?

  I, I can't wait until we keep adding shows as they sell out and we end up booking me into what is functionally a six-month East Coast residency.

• 7:57Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, that's gonna be, that's gonna be a lot of episodes to put together.

• 8:01Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, we're under the gun. We're gonna do an episode on cocaine as we're on cocaine.

• 8:06November Kelly?

  I've never done coke in my life, but I think if ever there was a, if ever there was a time to do it, it was, it would be like two minutes before going on stage for the cocaine live show.

• 8:16Liam McAnderson?

  That would be pretty good.

• 8:17November Kelly?

  On the other hand, if I, if I say to the, if I say that to Customs and Immigration, I will never be allowed to enter the United States again. So let's not do a cocaine show.

• 8:27Liam McAnderson?

  We're not doing a cocaine show. We already did an LSD show.

• 8:30Justin Roczniak?

  Don't do drugs.

• 8:32Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. As for the other shows in Washington DC, we still have about a third of the tickets left as of recording time. In Philadelphia at the Fillmore, we need to fill more seats.

• 8:42Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, please.

• 8:43November Kelly?

  So why they call it that?

• 8:45Justin Roczniak?

  Exactly. So buy, buy those tickets there. There's still about half of them left. Sorry if the tickets are kind of expensive. We don't, we don't control the prices. You know, it's, that's, that's, you know, Live Nation Ticketmaster thing, you know, as the outside of our control.

• 9:00Liam McAnderson?

  Also, yeah, well, the Sony Hall where we're playing, because we're playing Times Square, a real sentence I have to say now.

• 9:07Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 9:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, you did just say that.

• 9:10Liam McAnderson?

  They, they, they sent me an email after I signed, I was testing something for the, and they were like, coming to like Sony Hall. It's, well, there's your problem. Yeah, I fucking know, man. I booked that show. Well, the booking agent booked that show, but I know about it.

• 9:23Liam McAnderson?

  Do we want to talk about the toy drive? Or do you have anything?

• 9:27November Kelly?

  Yeah, talk about the toy drive.

• 9:28Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 9:29Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, great. So last year, Hogs, you rate. So I was talking to my, I'm going to get her title wrong. Erica, if you're listening, I'm sorry. She's like our development director, so head of like fundraising and stuff like that. The Hogs have donated between when we started donating last year. So like November of 2023 to about now, the Hogs have raised $27,683 thereabouts, which is a tremendous amount of money for the place I work, which is called Lutheran Settlement House. We do social work. We do domestic violence, counseling, prevention, housing. We have a senior center. We have a food pantry, kind of everything to everyone, especially with Mayor Parker putting

• 10:11Liam McAnderson?

  her in combed and thumb up or equally incumbent and ass. Might have to bleep that Devon, but, but yeah, so the Hogs have been glorious, but I am appealing to the Hogs today because, because I, once again, we are doing the toy drive for kids at our shelter. That's called Jane Addams Place and kids in our domestic violence program. I will fully rise into linking. We have an Amazon wishlist. That's the easiest way for us to do this. We're not doing the P O box like last time because I got sick of going to the P O box every day and having the post office employees be like, that motherfucker is again.

• 10:49November Kelly?

  You were literally bringing toys to at-risk youth and, and the post office were like, this motherfucker. Once I have to see his face again.

• 10:59Liam McAnderson?

  Once I told them what I was doing, they became very sympathetic instantaneously, which was pretty funny.

• 11:04November Kelly?

  I bet. Like you have a massive guilt card to play on anyone who fucks with you, which I think is really like, you know, it's not a very well rewarded task, but that's one of the few perks that there are, you know?

• 11:16Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, absolutely. They were like, oh, come in the back, get a cart. And they would like hook me up at the loading dock, which was pretty funny.

• 11:23November Kelly?

  It's, it's like the, your rewards are the laughter of children and making a postal worker feel just horrible about themselves.

• 11:31Liam McAnderson?

  I hope not.

• 11:34November Kelly?

  So I rolled my eyes at the guy who is basically Santa.

• 11:39Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, also Jewish Santa. I'm Haunika Harry, really.

• 11:44Liam McAnderson?

  But yeah, if you if you want to donate toys, I would appreciate it. I'll also have the just the donation link to Lutheran Settlement House. If you hate toys and want your dollars to not go to children at all, but exclusively to hungry people and our seniors.

• 12:02November Kelly?

  If you're on some kind of anti-natalist beef, but you're still charitable. So you're like, fuck these kids, but also like, you know, I want to do a good deed. I guess you could do that. All I'm all I'm going to say is another year has gone past and, you know, these children, they need the scale model Hawker Hunters, you know?

• 12:21Liam McAnderson?

  They do. And they're they're to have one comet.

• 12:25Speaker 02

  I'd already seen the comets popping up. I was I was very pleased about that.

• 12:29Liam McAnderson?

  I I will say to those of you, there are some people who have donated. I'm not I don't have the names in front of me. I don't want to dox anyone essentially. But I do want to say there are several of our listeners who have donated in the thousands of dollars.

• 12:44November Kelly?

  That is so generous.

• 12:46Liam McAnderson?

  And that is extremely generous. And if there's now a flag in our a flag in our donation software database, so that if you donate and it gets flagged, yeah, Liam, and I have time in between whatever it is I do at work, I will be writing you a note on a post-it within reason because they they're censoring me. I've already been told numerous times that I will be censored.

• 13:13Liam McAnderson?

  All right, that is my plug. Thank you for listening. Thank you for giving us money. Thank you for enabling us to help survivors of domestic violence, old people and the hungry. We are deeply appreciative of it.

• 13:24Justin Roczniak?

  Absolutely.

• 13:25November Kelly?

  Yes. All right. Why am I saying that like I did something? I didn't do shit.

• 13:29Justin Roczniak?

  That says that well, no, you're on the podcast and therefore getting the the message out, you know?

• 13:34November Kelly?

  I guess so. I guess.

• 13:35Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly. This is a group effort here. It's just that Liam's doing most of it.

• 13:40November Kelly?

  As Enver Hosja said, between the Albanians and the Chinese, we comprise like over a quarter of the Earth's population.

• 13:49Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I mean, this is, this is maybe not group effort, the word I would use there is group project. Yeah, one person does most of the work.

• 13:56Liam McAnderson?

  Okay, I need to be very clear. There are, there are people who are, who are doing the work with like, it's working at Jane Addams and working with survivors of domestic violence much more intimately than I do. And I just want to say they're, they, they, they deserve none of the credit. I deserve all of it.

• 14:19Liam McAnderson?

  I am, I am, I am, I am Liam the great and powerful. Now to me, don't hit your fucking kids.

• 14:27November Kelly?

  Just put that on like a sort of rainbow like animated text, you know, unicorn across the screen. Don't hit your kids.

• 14:33Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 14:34Liam McAnderson?

  The more you know, uh, yeah, let's, uh, let's get into the meat and potatoes.

• 14:39Justin Roczniak?

  I was about to say.

• 14:40Liam McAnderson?

  Minutes of time.

• 14:42Justin Roczniak?

  That was nice and uplifting. So it's time to do the goddamn news.

• 14:47Liam McAnderson?

  Last week.

• 14:49Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, we blew it.

• 14:51November Kelly?

  We live in hell.

• 14:54Justin Roczniak?

  The once in future president has returned.

• 14:57November Kelly?

  You see here before you on the screen, the text that I sent to my extremely worried group chats, the night of the election, when I was going to bed and I was like, I'm not going to stay up for this. I'm not going to torture myself because it's going to be fine. It's gonna be fine. It's gonna be like, you're gonna get a shitty liberal and things are gonna continue basically the same. Why stay up? Why, why feel anything about this? And unfortunately, as a sufferer of OCD, what I realize now is in that moment, I failed to observe my, my rituals and my compulsive behaviors and I jinxed it and I caused Donald Trump to become president again. So I'm very sorry. If you're looking at like net good

• 15:41November Kelly?

  and evil this podcast has put out into the world, Liam is helping the kids. I got Donald Trump reelected.

• 15:47Justin Roczniak?

  You did. Well, yeah, cuz I did all of my rituals.

• 15:52November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 15:52Justin Roczniak?

  And it still didn't work.

• 15:54November Kelly?

  Well, no, cuz I didn't do mine, right? This is the thing. We're all looking for the one OCD person who didn't do the thing and that's me. It's my fault this happened.

• 16:03Liam McAnderson?

  I will say, I, I, whatever. He's a shitty pro-life Democrat, but, uh, Bob Casey refusing to wave the flag like two weeks in or whatever. Oh my God, we're eight days out from the election.

• 16:16Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, it's only been a week. Yeah.

• 16:18Speaker 02

  Lucky now.

• 16:19Liam McAnderson?

  Matt Gaetz is gonna be Attorney General, folks.

• 16:22November Kelly?

  Elon Musk is gonna be the, the, the.

• 16:27Justin Roczniak?

  I'm pretty sure that's just the Blue Ribbon Commission in order to get him out of the way.

• 16:32November Kelly?

  But even still, like, I, I, I don't know. Plus, he might kill everyone.

• 16:38Justin Roczniak?

  Here's, here's, uh, here's a toy you can play with. Go away.

• 16:41Speaker 02

  Mandatory Neuralink for every US citizen. That's, that's, that's what we're seeing in two years' time.

• 16:46November Kelly?

  Um, I, I know a lot of, a lot of people out there are struggling and like even from an ocean away, I kind of am too, because the whole planet's a little bit fucked off of this. Um, I worry a lot for, for Americans. I worry a lot for my American friends. And, uh, I mean, I didn't, I, I gotta be honest, I was, I, I, I felt the vibes that things weren't going Kamala's way and I ignored them. I was like, I'm gonna listen to the, the polls. I'm gonna listen to, to, uh, Jayanne Seltzer or whatever.

• 17:17Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 17:18November Kelly?

  And, uh, and I, I was wrong to do that. What I should have been doing is turning my light switches on and off, uh, an equal number, uh, uh, an even number of times that's a multiple of four, but not of six, um, until it feels right. And I didn't do that. And, and now this is happening.

• 17:35Justin Roczniak?

  I had a conversation, uh, with my dad about politics, which is something I can very rarely do. Right after, uh, Kamala was, uh, got the, got the nomination when, when Biden dropped out.

• 17:47Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 17:47Justin Roczniak?

  I was like, do you think she's got the juice? And dad was like, no. And I was like, nah, I don't think so either. And then. Had to suppress that feeling for the rest of, uh, for the rest of the election. I was like, yeah, I don't, I don't think she's gonna do it, folks.

• 18:02November Kelly?

  It's fascinating to me. How, how many people, including me on the left or even on the like center left, like sort of left liberals or whatever, that whole sphere managed to convince ourselves that there was, that she was gonna pull it off because she was brats.

• 18:18Justin Roczniak?

  Like, that really, really, really serious group thing here, I think.

• 18:22November Kelly?

  Yeah, for real.

• 18:23Justin Roczniak?

  The other, the other weird thing is, you know, just how I, I would say this election has been very parasocial in a lot of ways.

• 18:29November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 18:30Justin Roczniak?

  I don't know if it's the first one, but, uh, yeah, this is, this applies to both sides because a lot of people who voted for Trump were like, uh, you know, they interviewed afterwards, like, I don't think he's gonna do all the bad stuff. I thi- I think he's just saying that, you know, for laughs.

• 18:45November Kelly?

  There, there were people who voted for Trump and then voted Democrat down ticket in order to like put a break on Trump somehow.

• 18:52Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, but then there was also like a similar thing with like Kamala, you know, one, one of the things is I, I, I don't know if you remember any of the, the big group calls that were, you know, organized like the week app. Yeah, one of them, yeah, and one of them was like, uh, uh, I, I, I'm, I'm sorry to do this because I know some of the people who organized it are probably listening. There was one that was like train lovers for Harris. And I looked at that and I was like, what are you talking about? She's not gonna do any of that. I.

• 19:21November Kelly?

  And now she definitely won't.

• 19:23Justin Roczniak?

  They already did infrastructure. They're not gonna touch that again. Um, you know, I, everyone was projecting everything they liked onto both of the char- candidates. And, uh, it kinda, I don't know, it, it went nowhere. I, I looked at her policy page, which is still up yesterday. I was like, and I looked at it and I was like.

• 19:41November Kelly?

  There's nothing of substance here.

• 19:42Justin Roczniak?

  This is, there ain't shit there. Yeah. I mean, people were talking about, uh, how do you say, uh, you know, Democrats should have campaigned on this or that. They should have been less woke. They should have been so on and so forth. I think they should have had a policy. I think that would have, that would have helped. Yeah, just one single policy I, I think would have been a nice thing to, to say, hey, vote for us.

• 20:04November Kelly?

  And we will deliver this to you.

• 20:06Speaker 02

  The Labour Party got involved, didn't they? Yes. The Labour Party are allergic to having any policies other than occasionally ones that are extremely harmful to vulnerable people such as trans people. So. Yeah, I know, yeah, Nova, you're getting involved again. I have a question. I have a question. So Dark Brandon, right? I'm track Joe. Everyone made a huge deal about his rail credentials, right? And so, you know, made this huge fuss about this big infrastructure investment. How much of any of that actually has progressed at all? And is that, is all of it just going to get canned? I assume that none of it even got to the point that there will need to be canceled by the Republicans because I don't know of any actual rail projects that were actually being progressed other than just big talk.

• 20:51Speaker 02

  So what's actually, where are we actually at with any of that, Ross?

• 20:54Justin Roczniak?

  I would say the sum total of progress which has been made. The New Orleans to Mobile train is probably going to go through. They're too far in on that. There is now one extra train from Chicago to Minneapolis.

• 21:10Liam McAnderson?

  Didn't we get the funding approved for more Pennsylvanians?

• 21:13Justin Roczniak?

  Yes, that's also going through. There's going to be one extra train from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh at the cost of several hundred million dollars.

• 21:21Liam McAnderson?

  Making sense.

• 21:22Speaker 02

  Beautiful.

• 21:23Justin Roczniak?

  Mostly, that's mostly improvements for Norfolk Southern.

• 21:28November Kelly?

  What a legacy. What a legacy. To maybe be like the worst American president. And that's like.

• 21:36Justin Roczniak?

  There is a lot of Northeast corridor improvements which are going through at this point. They're mostly bridge replacements. They're replacing the BNP tunnel in Baltimore. They are probably going to manage to force through the gateway tunnel in New York City this time around. Portal Bridge is well underway. But that's all, you know, Northeast corridor improvements, you know. Projects like expanding the long distance M track network or like, you know, replacing the long distance fleet. That that's all up in the air still. I mean.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  So the Democrats did the classic thing and they do this with women's rights. They did this with all this stuff where they say they. Basically, don't do it and don't do it so that they can hang it over everyone for the next election. And they've been doing that for 40 years where they say, oh, you have to vote us in so that we can, you know, codify Wade v. Roe, you know, you have to, you know, just wait till the next one, then, you know, then we'll do it.

• 22:27Liam McAnderson?

  Then it never happens.

• 22:28November Kelly?

  This is the most important election of our lifetimes because, you know, it's, it's another opportunity.

• 22:34Liam McAnderson?

  About John Kerry in 2004, man.

• 22:36November Kelly?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:37Justin Roczniak?

  I do think if they had maybe made this election about codifying Roe versus Wade, they might have had a better.

• 22:43Liam McAnderson?

  I disagree because.

• 22:43Justin Roczniak?

  But they seemed to have.

• 22:44Liam McAnderson?

  That they, they relied on abortion too much in the final weeks and nobody gave a shit.

• 22:48November Kelly?

  I, I, I kind of feel like none of us know is the thing like I, I made, I made the mistake of thinking I knew what was going on or I knew what I was talking about. I know I have no qualifications to do so. I made the mistake of like thinking things could ever be good, which I know I shouldn't. And I, I didn't touch light switches enough instead of touch, I touched grass instead of light switch.

• 23:11Justin Roczniak?

  You didn't, you didn't flip the light switch three times. Yeah.

• 23:14November Kelly?

  No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like three times would have been wrong, like four times unless it feels wrong. And then if it does feel wrong, then you go up to eight and then 12, but then so.

• 23:22Justin Roczniak?

  But, but then you've had no effect because the light's gone on and you, you, you have to have an odd number to have an effect.

• 23:28November Kelly?

  No, no, no, that's not, well, okay, sure, but.

• 23:30Justin Roczniak?

  Then, then either the lights are always on or always off.

• 23:33November Kelly?

  Yeah, correct. Yeah. This is the, listen, I'm not.

• 23:36Liam McAnderson?

  We're about yourself, Roz.

• 23:39November Kelly?

  Don't worry about the lights in my house. I'm not, I know how many furniture in there.

• 23:45November Kelly?

  Just turning the light on and off on an empty room. But yeah, no, I mean, obviously the thing is right. We can go through because it's everybody's fault. It's like, it is your fault for, if you voted for her, not voting for her enough. It's your fault if you didn't vote for her. It's Joe Biden's fault for like setting her up to fail. It's her fault for losing. It's Tim Walz's fault for, I don't know. It's, it's like. It's Donald Trump's fault for winning.

• 24:14Justin Roczniak?

  Tim Waltz, I feel like got a bit too much of the muzzle put on him.

• 24:18November Kelly?

  Yeah, they were scared of him being relatable.

• 24:22Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 24:23November Kelly?

  It's like Devon's fault for telling you not to vote. Uh, it's uh, fucking Putin's fault probably or something because of Russiagate. It's, it, you can, you can play this blame game all day and it kind of doesn't matter because all we really know is that like, even if you have the perfect theory of change and of how to win elections, the Democratic Party have indicated to you that they are not going to listen to it, right? They're gonna do the thing that they want to do. They're gonna run things their way and their way loses every time.

• 24:59Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I mean, about, about all you can say is, well, that went poorly, but I don't know if it could have gone a different way.

• 25:05November Kelly?

  Yeah, no, I, I, I don't, I don't know if there was a campaign that could have run in three months where she was like vice president of someone as unpopular as Joe Biden that could have won. Uh, even if there had been, she would never have run it because, you know, the people involved were just never gonna feel comfortable doing that. Um, and...

• 25:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, so here's the thing. I'm a moron, right?

• 25:28November Kelly?

  That's very important.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Put that on deck. But, um, but I have just written a book that did a lot of discussing, uh, I kind of repeat the point that people can get too locked into, to kind of fluctuation events and not look at the macro. The macro here is that, and it's the same in the UK with the budget we just had, to be honest. We just had a budget that says it's record investment and yet none of that will be seen by the lowest income people. And that's exactly what happened with the big investment strategy of the Democrats.

• 25:56November Kelly?

  Yeah, it's a pathological thing. Well, you refuse to acknowledge that people are suffering.

• 26:03Speaker 02

  So I don't think any different, I don't think any campaign could have won this for the Democrats because they'd fucked it by their broad economic policy of, we're gonna do big investment, but it's all gonna disappear into big corporations to make line go up rather than to actually land in the pockets of people who are struggling. And the only person who was actually promising economic change was Trump.

• 26:24Liam McAnderson?

  I I I

• 26:24November Kelly?

  For the worse.

• 26:25Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, I have maintained the theory that the Democrats could have run basically anyone besides maybe a couple of people. Uh, and Trump would have won. And I think a lot of his people like Trump. And it's hard for like, it's hard for us on the left to get that. But like, I, uh, I, I like, I don't fuck it like the guy. I think he's a lunatic moron, but people love him. And I was reading the New York Times article that came out today because I, uh, I am a moron as well about like what undecided voters in 2024 and who they voted for. Uh, and number one, I have a bone to pick with the, there's a woman in there named like McLean, like that's her given name.

• 27:00November Kelly?

  McLean?

• 27:01Liam McAnderson?

  Yes. And she was like, I, she was like, I was, I was swayed by the Trump, they, them vote like, I was gonna vote Biden before that. And she voted, she wrote in Romney in 2020. And it was like, Uh huh. You're, you've lying scumbag. But I do think, I do think that like, yeah, people wanted to vote for Trump and like, we have to deal with that on the left. And even with our, our liberal friends, friends sort of in quotes there.

• 27:23November Kelly?

  Yeah. Uh, uh, yeah. I mean,

• 27:26Liam McAnderson?

  We have to learn.

• 27:27November Kelly?

  I mean, the stuff that people like about Trump is that he's funny and he, he feels like he's gonna like be strong and he's gonna like fuck with and trigger all of the like liberal institutions that everybody hates. I do like two of those three things already, right? So like, if there's a lesson from this, it's, it's to like fucking get more like a podcast, I guess, or kill yourself. I don't know.

• 27:53Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, well, we need the left, uh, the left Joe Rogan, apparently.

• 27:58November Kelly?

  Yeah, Jesus Christ.

• 28:02Liam McAnderson?

  It was called Come Town.

• 28:04Justin Roczniak?

  Well, yeah, actually, I mean, you know, this is the thing. I, that was a big piece of discourse like a couple of days ago. Um, you know, I, there's this whole ecosystem of left wing podcasts that, you know, showed up over the past, you know, eight years or so since the Bernie run. And I guess the liberals just have no idea we exist.

• 28:23November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 28:23Justin Roczniak?

  The establishment liberals.

• 28:24November Kelly?

  We didn't like move the needle at all because we didn't want to, because we felt like ambiguous and I'm, because we felt ambivalent and conflicted.

• 28:31Liam McAnderson?

  Are we gonna come out and endorse Kamala Harris? No, I'd rather, I'd rather end the podcast and beat you two to death with a sword.

• 28:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:38November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 28:39Speaker 02

  Wait, which one? Who survives?

• 28:41November Kelly?

  Yeah, one of the three of you, one of the three of you gets to live.

• 28:47Speaker 02

  I just, I think, yeah, maybe I'm oversimplifying, but I think when, when, when, when a lot of people in the US are feeling fucked, as in like their cost of living is getting worse, the, the, the amount they can actually get for a dollar is getting smaller. And there's two parties, and one of them says, we ain't changing shit. And the other one says, I'm gonna do change, even if it's fascism, then you're gonna be inclined to vote for the person who does something, because at the moment, you're fucked. And someone telling you, we're not gonna change anything is, is not appealing.

• 29:15November Kelly?

  Yeah, I mean, I, I said this on-

• 29:16Speaker 02

  Liberals are just never gonna learn this.

• 29:18November Kelly?

  I said this on TF, right? Because like, one of the things that Riley on there is trying to contextualize this in is within this like global shift rightwards, right? And it need not always be so. That's not just like weather, you know, it's because of stuff happening. But speaking of weather, one of the things that like, uh, is, is like profoundly affecting this is climate change, right? And we, we saw in Spain, I don't know, we probably should have put this in as a separate notes thing, but I wanted to talk about it now. Um, we saw like absolutely catastrophic flooding.

• 29:49Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 29:50November Kelly?

  Like caused by climate change, like hundreds of people dead. Um, and I'm just-

• 29:55Justin Roczniak?

  Also Santiago Calatrava, uh, putting that big arts center where the river's supposed to be.

• 30:00November Kelly?

  Yeah. And, and like Spain, Spain has a like sort of center-left government that clung on by its fingernails in coalition in the last election. And their, their reward for that is, uh, something that is, is just like, makes it obvious how untenable this whole thing is, you know? And like, of course, that's gonna drive you into the arms of whatever party is like, you know, what's, what's, you know, causing this shit is, uh, you know, immigrants or whatever. Um-

• 30:26Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I was about to say, uh, the, the Democratic Party going hard in anti-immigrant was a bad idea. It was a dropped opposition to the death penalty. Of course, no one just wanted to do anything about Gaza. No one touched that issue.

• 30:39November Kelly?

  No.

• 30:39Justin Roczniak?

  They made that way worse. They sent, uh, what's his face-

• 30:42November Kelly?

  They lost Michigan off that shit. Like, whatever anyone tells you that it doesn't matter, like they, they-

• 30:47Speaker 02

  They lost like big cities in Michigan. They lost the college towns in Michigan because they were like, kids were getting fucking pepper sprayed.

• 30:55Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, kids just didn't show up to vote. I mean, that was definitely, well, obviously, kids are under 18. They should not show up to vote. That's voter fraud, but the young people did not show up.

• 31:05Liam McAnderson?

  And no one can fucking blame them. I like, since, so I turned 18 in 2009. So I voted socialist in 2012. I voted for Hillary Clinton in 20, and I voted Democrat since because they've all been fucking against Trump. Who, regardless of his politics, I just, I can't stand his voice, like his speaking voice. And when people do their Trump impressions, it makes me mad.

• 31:27Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm glad you said that sentence, because I was, I was gearing up. I was.

• 31:31Liam McAnderson?

  I, I, people do, like, friend of the show, Tom Payne, does it, does like a pretty spot on Trump impression.

• 31:37Justin Roczniak?

  He does, yeah.

• 31:38Liam McAnderson?

  And it makes me furious.

• 31:41Justin Roczniak?

  He's very mad, folks, very mad at my voice.

• 31:43Liam McAnderson?

  I will beat you to death with your own cheese.

• 31:47Justin Roczniak?

  Is he triggered? I don't know.

• 31:50Liam McAnderson?

  But I was just like, I can't stand this asshole. And, and, and my entire.

• 31:54Justin Roczniak?

  Should we bring out the fish? Should we bring out the fish?

• 31:59Liam McAnderson?

  And my entire, whatever you want to call it, like, voting career, it's been just like, oh, this is the most important, you're like, like, we'll do it this time, you guys, like, well, you know, we'll, we'll make life measurably better for, and then they just don't.

• 32:11Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 32:11Liam McAnderson?

  That's what Gareth was just saying, and I wanted to reinforce that. It's like, when, when people can't buy like eggs and meat, they're going to vote for the other guy, even if the other guy is like, as long as they just say change, because the median voter is a dipshit, I think, but.

• 32:24Justin Roczniak?

  Also to say that, you know, that, that no one was going to address, you know, the big sources of inflation that have been obvious in our, you know, fixed costs that everyone has, you know, rent, healthcare, higher education.

• 32:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, can't touch them, can't touch those.

• 32:41Justin Roczniak?

  What you can do is complain that the egg costs 66, 60 cents more.

• 32:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. I wonder what, yeah, I wonder what would have, what the Democrats, you know, saying Medicare for all and just flatly. Liam, in fact, you even gave them a head, a few episodes ago, you even gave them the headline for the legislation. Just Medicare for all that would immediately save, save like every American on average, like hundreds, if not thousands of dollars.

• 33:04Liam McAnderson?

  I, I, yeah, it was my dad's idea when he was arguing with Glenn Beck on Fox News when Obamacare went back. I made this joke before, I'm gonna make it again. And my dad was like, I could do it in one sentence. The United States of America hereby adopts universal healthcare and empowers or delegates the Secretary of Health and Human Services to implement same, done, one sentence. We have universal healthcare.

• 33:27Justin Roczniak?

  That's one, that's one page. Yeah.

• 33:29Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah. Give my dad Secretary of Health and Human Services.

• 33:33Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 33:33Liam McAnderson?

  Donny, Donny, I know you're a big fan.

• 33:37Liam McAnderson?

  I take back whatever I've said about you or whatever. Give my dad HHS.

• 33:42Justin Roczniak?

  This is gonna be interesting because they're, you know, they wanna put RFK into something and he's gonna.

• 33:47Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 33:48Liam McAnderson?

  He's gonna kill us all, dude.

• 33:49Speaker 02

  I genuinely, every time I.

• 33:51Justin Roczniak?

  I'll cholera, but what I'm excited about is he does wanna ban chemtrails, which I think will be good. That's gonna be good for the railroad industry because we just won't be able to fly planes anymore.

• 34:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. I look forward to that. Yeah, that'll be good.

• 34:05November Kelly?

  I, I, I just, every time I think about the election, I think about a new way in which all of us are fucked. And I haven't run out yet. It's been a new one every time. So I, I just, I, I, I don't know what to tell you. I don't know what to say. I.

• 34:19Speaker 02

  Buy whiskey, buy street waffles, consume both.

• 34:22November Kelly?

  Gun, like fucking.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:26November Kelly?

  If, if you live in the United States, you can do it legally if you feel like you can do it safely. I think it's something I would do if I lived in the US. Like, no question, I wouldn't hesitate about it. Because shit's gonna get like as bad as it is now, it's gonna get so much worse.

• 34:42Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I was about to say, we need a, we need a liberal Waco.

• 34:50Speaker 02

  Talking of changing climates and mass slaughter.

• 34:53Justin Roczniak?

  Yes. I was about to say, let's go to the other side of the world.

• 34:59Justin Roczniak?

  So in NEOM, in Saudi Arabia, they're putting up Panama Canal numbers, more than Panama Canal numbers. This makes Panama Canal look like, you know, sort of kids play.

• 35:14Speaker 02

  They're putting up like White Sea Canal numbers, you know?

• 35:17Justin Roczniak?

  Exactly.

• 35:18Speaker 02

  121,000 people dead or missing.

• 35:20Justin Roczniak?

  21,000 dead, over 100,000 missing.

• 35:23Liam McAnderson?

  Jesus.

• 35:25Justin Roczniak?

  Putting together NEOM in the line and so on and so forth.

• 35:27November Kelly?

  And missing in this case presumably just means like buried alive in trench or something.

• 35:32Justin Roczniak?

  I am really confused at how you can put up those numbers with modern construction techniques.

• 35:40Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, me too.

• 35:40November Kelly?

  You just actively have to like beat a couple of guys to death every shift, you know?

• 35:44Speaker 02

  Those are visible from space numbers, like, like I, I, yeah. So it's funny because I recently was working on a, at a company and I joined the company and then realized that that company, oh, it's Sister, it's Sister, everyone knows it's Sister, I was working at Sister. And Sister were working on NEOM and I come in and they're, they're working on NEOM and I was like, why, why are we working, what? And the people at the top genuinely convinced themselves like, you know, obviously they're, you know, they're working practice and stuff, but we can change it from the inside. Like, what the fuck are you talking about? Why do you, why do you think that? Have you ever met MBS? Do you know what he's like?

• 36:19November Kelly?

  Push MBS left, you know?

• 36:22Speaker 02

  They're like, so, yeah, so, so while I was, in the brief time that I was a Sister, I was basically going, we are, we should not bid for this, it's extremely high risk, we should not bid for this, just listing off all the NEOM stuff that we were trying to get in with. Partly because all engineering consultancies in the UK have been driven insane by the fact there isn't any work here. So they start doing nut stuff like, like, oh, what crazy shit monies can we go for instead?

• 36:43November Kelly?

  NEOM is like one of the places that, that is building stuff and it's a short list, you know?

• 36:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a giant, it's an extremely long ditch that is, I hope, not going to be much more, but they've killed 121, they've, they've, sorry, killed or lost 121,000 Nepalese, Indian.

• 37:03November Kelly?

  Bangladeshi.

• 37:04Speaker 02

  Bangladeshi.

• 37:05November Kelly?

  Pakistani, yeah.

• 37:06Speaker 02

  People who come into the country have their passports come. Confiscated, have absolutely, it's essentially indentured servitude and have pretty grim working conditions and send a bit of money back to their families and then apparently don't even, don't even get recorded as dying, you become lost and then the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia pretends that you weren't and gets upset that the Western commentators are, are talking about you.

• 37:31November Kelly?

  Yeah, we have, we have a hundred thousand different videos of these guys walking backwards out of the airport. So it's all good.

• 37:37Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I don't understand how it's, it's like, what are they doing? Are they like trying to, you know, blast the several tunnels for this project entirely with like people with suicide vests?

• 37:49November Kelly?

  Yeah, right.

• 37:50Justin Roczniak?

  I don't, I don't understand.

• 37:51November Kelly?

  Duffy knows how they're doing this.

• 37:53Liam McAnderson?

  Duffy's cut to a factor of a million. Yeah. Are they just giving these guys cholera and then shooting them?

• 37:57November Kelly?

  My feeling is like, if you, if you think that the, you know, design process for this is bad, imagine what the like sort of like works oversight for this is, you know, what do you think the kind of like foreman for this look like? What do you think their managers look like?

• 38:10Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, are they like lining people up in front of the scraper?

• 38:14November Kelly?

  I mean, maybe.

• 38:15Justin Roczniak?

  You know, I, I don't understand.

• 38:17November Kelly?

  If, if I, I listen, I don't mean to be sort of like, I don't mean to brag, but I'm pretty certain if you put me in charge of a construction crew of a hundred people, I could find a way to kill all of them accidentally. Like, uh, so.

• 38:28Speaker 02

  You know what, Nova? I don't know if you could. I honestly do not know how you kill this many people without shooting half of them. I don't, I don't know how you manage that.

• 38:38November Kelly?

  Imagine I'm like a very junior Saudi prince's like failed daughter and like, I then have the same job and I'm like, okay, now I need all of these guys to stand in front of the bulldozer just in case, you know, so to balance it.

• 38:52Justin Roczniak?

  I was about to say, if, if, if you killed all those people by shooting them, that's adding a lot of ammo to the budget.

• 38:58Liam McAnderson?

  That's true.

• 38:59Justin Roczniak?

  And ammunition's expensive because we're in Biden's America.

• 39:03Liam McAnderson?

  Not for long.

• 39:04November Kelly?

  Jesus Christ.

• 39:06Liam McAnderson?

  And it's gonna be more expensive somehow.

• 39:08November Kelly?

  Yeah, it probably will.

• 39:10Speaker 02

  This is, this is appalling. So, so my call to, and then there are lots of engineers out there, lots of my fellow design engineers out there, but others as well, in the, like, people in the UK right now, if you're working on this and you're kind of like, well, you know, I was told to work on this job and, and like, I don't have a choice. Say no. You can move to another project, or you can threaten them with leaving. Say no. Give your line manager the stories about this, the stories about the indigenous populations being murdered. You should not be working on this stuff. You have blood on your hands if you work on this project. Step away from it. Call it out. Shout out to New Civil Engineer, which is like an incredibly middling, sort of engineering, business to business publication, but they have given, going, they've been gunning for this. They've really pushed hard on, like, making a point of this and shaming some of the UK companies working on it,

• 39:54Speaker 02

  of which there are a long list. So, fair, fair play to New Civil Engineer magazine, doing some proper, genuine journalism that, that the big media companies just haven't been, but actually calling out engineering consultants and engineering companies in the UK who have been working on this. Universities involved in this stuff, stop it. Abandon KSA. Just because he has a lot of money, does not mean that you should be sniffing his ass. Get out of there.

• 40:16Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. Yeah, this is, uh, this is a bad project, folks. Uh, you know, I, I, I, my concentration at Drexel was in construction management. And the one thing they drilled into us at Drexel, which is, otherwise, you know, I don't think they were very good at engineering ethics there. Every worker has the right to leave the job site uninjured.

• 40:38Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 40:39Justin Roczniak?

  And I, I, here at, uh, here in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, apparently they've managed to, uh, install some kind of Rube Goldberg machine that they just toss all the workers in, uh, you know, and instead of that, you know?

• 40:55Speaker 02

  Just, yeah.

• 40:56Justin Roczniak?

  It's just a stacker. It's, it's a really big number.

• 40:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:00Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 41:00Justin Roczniak?

  It's, it's.

• 41:01Speaker 02

  And in, in return for, in return for what?

• 41:03Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 41:04Speaker 02

  Well, exactly. It's for bullshit. Yeah.

• 41:06Justin Roczniak?

  It can't be a very efficient site. Um, just because.

• 41:10Speaker 02

  I mean, go back to the Seamus episode for people. God, it's a while back now. Cator de Force, that shameless episode. If you want to understand what these projects are, why they exist and how fucking stupid they are, that episode, if I'm sure everyone listening to this has because it's a brilliant episode, but if you haven't, go back to the episode to understand what the hell is going on with these projects. But like this is, it cannot be stressed enough that these are, these are planet killing projects. They serve no useful function. There are like maybe two projects as part of Vision, as Vision 2030 that are useful, which are railway projects, dedicated railway projects that have nothing to do with NEOM. But I like the majority of the 2030 stuff is shit like this. It's like 500 meter high mirror stuff that is just planet killing projects that we shouldn't be progressing.

• 41:51Speaker 02

  Like no one on the planet should be letting MBS build this stuff. Sorry, I know I'm getting angry and elevated about this stuff, but this is like a typical situation where my fellow engineers, we don't, we are not taught ethics. And this is the fucking result. This is the result is that my, is that British engineers, shit tons of them are working on this stuff, are going out to Saudi and doing this, you know, are working on this stuff as site engineers, as consulting engineers. Why are you doing this? Stop it. The money is not worth it. You have hands, you have blood on your hands.

• 42:20Justin Roczniak?

  It's like the only, the only like situation in history that this feels comparable to in terms of like the churn rate feels like French Saint Domingue, now Haiti. Where they did just, you know, run through slaves at an incredible rate because they just considered people completely disposable.

• 42:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:39Justin Roczniak?

  You know, this is, uh, this is ugly. This is ugly to comprehend.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:44November Kelly?

  It's a lot of, a lot of that around, you know?

• 42:47Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 42:48Speaker 02

  Well, let's blow something up.

• 42:51Justin Roczniak?

  I was about to say, that was the goddamn news.

• 42:56Justin Roczniak?

  Give me one second. I gotta get a backup beer.

• 42:58November Kelly?

  We, we, we continue. We, yeah. Well, listen, it was always going to take a minute to talk about how the bad things happened. Yeah. I, I can't stress enough how much I'm not an authority on any of this. I just know that it sucks. I don't have a prescription for it or anything. Uh, just.

• 43:21November Kelly?

  Don't I like, don't get mad at me because I don't know either. I don't know anything other than that.

• 43:25Liam McAnderson?

  I feel that in my gut.

• 43:27Speaker 02

  Liberal delusion, liberal complacency. Those are the, those are the words that just come to mind. It's like we, we, we on the left are doomed to remember, right? It's like, if you do nothing and people get poorer, well, anyway, we've been there, we've been there, we've done that. Let's, let's talk about explosions and what, what, once Roz comes back with beer. When we're good to go. Let's do this.

• 43:46November Kelly?

  I'm gonna get a beer, actually.

• 43:47Speaker 02

  Okay, that's a good idea.

• 43:49Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. Okay. Do we wait a bit more then?

• 43:51Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, we'll wait a second longer.

• 43:53Speaker 02

  No, it's all right.

• 43:54Justin Roczniak?

  There we go. Cool. Okay. What is propane?

• 43:58Liam McAnderson?

  What is propane, Roz?

• 44:00Speaker 02

  We're on organic chemistry again. Yeah.

• 44:03Justin Roczniak?

  I was about to say, yeah, a lot of organic chemistry this season. Propane, uh, three carbons, eight hydrogens. That's propane. This is really nice, good, clean burning fuel. Now propane as sold to consumers is a type of liquefied petroleum gas.

• 44:22Liam McAnderson?

  Okay.

• 44:23Justin Roczniak?

  It's a mixture of propane, a small amount of propylene and some other trace gases.

• 44:29November Kelly?

  Some other fun stuff.

• 44:30Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 44:32Speaker 02

  So to make it smell so that you can, there's sulfur stuff so you actually smell if it leaks, little bits, stuff like that.

• 44:39Justin Roczniak?

  Liquified petroleum gas can also include butane and other chemicals, but commercial propane is 90% propane. And then the stuff you use in like a propane grill, that's like 95% propane.

• 44:52Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, wow. Okay.

• 44:53Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. Um, so propane is gaseous at room temperature and so therefore they liquefy it, uh, by cooling it down. Uh, and they store it in pressurized tanks, which you can then purchase and take home with you for your propane grill.

• 45:10November Kelly?

  Yeah. Have, have a liquefied pressurized gas that you can use to cook meat on.

• 45:16Justin Roczniak?

  Exactly, exactly. It's reasonably safe. It's reasonably clean. It's reasonably convenient.

• 45:22November Kelly?

  It's, it's practical. It's a very like Hank Hill type of fuel, you know?

• 45:26Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. You don't have to, you don't have to clean out the grill afterwards. I'm a charcoal guy. I'm, I'm just, I prefer charcoal. Uh, I like to taste the meat and the heat.

• 45:36Speaker 02

  Yes, I've got like, I think I've got like three almost finished cans of propane upstairs from when I go camping. Those are now like, haven't been used for like 12 years. So they're probably ready to just explode upstairs. That's fine.

• 45:46Liam McAnderson?

  That's good. That's good.

• 45:48Justin Roczniak?

  They probably, either that or they've all leaked out by now.

• 45:51Speaker 02

  Well, that's also, yeah, they're sat next to the plastic cup of old BR track detonators. They're also explosive.

• 45:57Justin Roczniak?

  That's a good idea. That's a good idea.

• 45:59Liam McAnderson?

  Workplace safety is number one, baby.

• 46:01Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, we have.

• 46:02November Kelly?

  It's different parts of the thing. Like Roz, you have the, the nuclear bomb in the basement. And Gareth, you have the explosives in the attic. So it's, you know.

• 46:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's a symmetry to it.

• 46:15Justin Roczniak?

  One inherent issue.

• 46:17Liam McAnderson?

  It's a shame. And I was gonna say get the fertilizer, but.

• 46:20Justin Roczniak?

  Yep. One inherent issue that sets propane and other liquefied petroleum gases apart from, say, natural gas or like fuel oils, is that propane is a dense gas. If the cylinder springs a leak for some reason, the gas will flow out of the tank and it will pool on the ground instead of dispersing into the air.

• 46:42November Kelly?

  Oh, so you don't blow up your house if you have a linky, a leaky propane canister upstairs?

• 46:47Justin Roczniak?

  Uh, maybe.

• 46:48November Kelly?

  Oh.

• 46:49Justin Roczniak?

  I open some windows. So that's why you should store propane outdoors in a cage.

• 46:56November Kelly?

  Then if you blow it up, it's the grounds problem.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:59Justin Roczniak?

  Then it, then if there's a leak, it's dispersed by the wind. That's why you usually store it in like a big cage with like individual cylinders or if you.

• 47:09November Kelly?

  I'm just writing this down. I'm just writing this down. I'm thinking about my Ikea Calax upstairs. It's full of propane canisters outside.

• 47:16Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 47:16November Kelly?

  Cage. Okay. Yeah.

• 47:17Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 47:18November Kelly?

  Keep going.

• 47:19Justin Roczniak?

  If you need a bunch, you have a dedicated tank, which is also outdoors, designed to vent to atmosphere.

• 47:25November Kelly?

  Vent to atmosphere. Okay, cool.

• 47:28Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 47:28Liam McAnderson?

  A bro off valve. Yes.

• 47:31Justin Roczniak?

  So propane is also odorized, so you'll be able to smell the leak and know that when you smell it, it's time to get out of the area. Propane has many commercial uses for fuel, for vehicles, or for industrial equipment. A lot of forklifts run off of propane, I want to say. It can also be used as an aerosol propellant. There's a lot of newer heat exchangers or heat pumps that use it as a refrigerant because it's more environmentally friendly than chlorofluorocarbons and also works a lot better. And of course, another aspect where propane is used is in commercial kitchens, especially those that are like off of a natural gas distribution system.

• 48:15Justin Roczniak?

  You know, it's a lot, it's a lot more convenient to transport propane than compressed natural gas. Propane's like 320 PSI or so. Compressed natural gas is like 2,400 PSI, I want to say. These are much more robust container.

• 48:32November Kelly?

  You're running like massive like gas burning, like stove tops off of it, you know?

• 48:37Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly. Now, in this presentation, just because of the sources I used, we're going to refer to propane and liquefied petroleum gas interchangeably. I should mention the, the big source I used for this was disaster in aisle 13. It's a report on sort of the emergency response to this, this incident more than it is about the actual incident. That's available on Internet Archive.

• 49:06November Kelly?

  You would hate to hear disaster on aisle 13 over the like tannoy at a supermarket.

• 49:11Justin Roczniak?

  Exactly. Yeah, that's pretty bad.

• 49:15November Kelly?

  They don't even use a code, you know?

• 49:17Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 49:18Speaker 02

  A quick shout out to the snappy episode where someone who, one of the sources that you used, Roz, came into the comments and was like, oh, that's, that's me. I wrote that. So shout out to that guy. Hi.

• 49:29Justin Roczniak?

  What is a state fair? And why does it need a coliseum?

• 49:33November Kelly?

  I can answer this through the medium of stationery. Are we familiar with the hipster stationery brand Field Notes?

• 49:41Liam McAnderson?

  Yes.

• 49:42November Kelly?

  Are we aware that they did? You'd like them, Justin. They're a little like a kind of like two staple, like cardboard notebook thing. It has like a pretense of being unpretentious. It's meant to be like a farmer's almanac or whatever, or like something you would use for like, you know, engineering, maybe. And so they do a lot of like special editions. And I had a box set of one per state in like different colors. I was a little like, you know, sort of gold foil thing with some fun facts about the state. So I, you know, this is, you know, the California notebook out of the box set. And it's here's all the stuff that California exports or whatever. And, you know, I used these for like years and years and years.

• 50:27November Kelly?

  And so because of this, I not only know state capitals, but I also know what a state fair is. And a state fair is where you like go to like a location in the state. And you look at like a cow made of butter. Or you look at the like, the best pig from this state. Or you see, you see some-

• 50:47Justin Roczniak?

  You can go see butter made of cows.

• 50:49November Kelly?

  Yeah, you can, you can see some like-

• 50:50Liam McAnderson?

  Roz, have I ever taken you to the, uh, the, uh, farm show?

• 50:55Justin Roczniak?

  I have not been to the farm show. I would like to go to the farm show.

• 50:59Liam McAnderson?

  I'll take you to the farm show.

• 50:59November Kelly?

  Yeah, so my, my understanding of it is, is you and whoever is running for president, if it's a swing state and an election year, go to this place, you see some cultural activities. You consume some very strange, very like high fat and carbohydrate foods.

• 51:14Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 51:15Liam McAnderson?

  And the best milkshakes you've ever had.

• 51:17November Kelly?

  Uh huh. And then, and then you maybe get drunk and you go home.

• 51:21Justin Roczniak?

  With my milkshake.

• 51:22Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, you're so handsome.

• 51:24Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 51:25Liam McAnderson?

  Actually, these milkshakes might, bud.

• 51:26Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, that's a good point.

• 51:29Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, he's mad at me because I tripped over him in the kitchen yesterday.

• 51:32Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, you're a dumb bastard.

• 51:33November Kelly?

  Shake like the football? Jesus Christ.

• 51:36Liam McAnderson?

  Jail, jail for Roz. Jail for Roz for 1,000 years.

• 51:41Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, so you know, this is a great place. You can show off your biggest livestock, your giant vegetables, your enormous fruits. Eventually, there's sideshows and attractions that show up. You can go on a Ferris wheel. You go on some kind of fold up dark ride, little tiny roller coaster. Merry go round. The infamous zipper.

• 52:00November Kelly?

  I wonder if it's possible to do a kind of night's tour situation and go to every state fair in like the same year.

• 52:06Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, my God. I think they're all roughly in the same season is the issue.

• 52:10November Kelly?

  Yeah, you'd have to do a lot of traveling and like some of them like Hawaii and Alaska would like fuck you up in terms of like the travel, but.

• 52:18Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 52:18November Kelly?

  I wonder.

• 52:19Justin Roczniak?

  You also have shows or events. You might have horse racing or a concert or auto racing.

• 52:25November Kelly?

  You can just say Kentucky. You can just say Indiana.

• 52:28Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, demo derbies.

• 52:31Justin Roczniak?

  Demolition Derby, demolition derby with minivans, demolition derby, but with pickup trucks, monster trucks, demolition derby, but with, they usually have a lot of demolition derbies. You might have a tractor pull too.

• 52:43Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, I love a tractor pull.

• 52:44Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, many, many redneck things.

• 52:46Liam McAnderson?

  Hey.

• 52:48Justin Roczniak?

  They're all very exciting and.

• 52:49Liam McAnderson?

  Fun.

• 52:50Justin Roczniak?

  Fun, yes.

• 52:51Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah. I'll do, I'll do a Republican voter outreach. It'll just be me at the demo derby. With like a, like a 10 foot like idol of Joe Biden on my car.

• 53:02Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, you have, you have the Kamala Harris car at the demolition derby.

• 53:06November Kelly?

  It's painted brat green.

• 53:08Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 53:09November Kelly?

  You get the most neck injuries of someone's ever had at one of these.

• 53:15Liam McAnderson?

  But I'm so Julia.

• 53:19Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, you want, you wind up like that guy.

• 53:21Liam McAnderson?

  It's exhausting.

• 53:22November Kelly?

  It's, the problem is it's a banger, but now it's indelibly tainted by association.

• 53:27Justin Roczniak?

  You'd be, you'd wind up like that guy.

• 53:29November Kelly?

  Being like, she could have been legendary. She could have had like a reign of power to totally restructure the US, but like, you know, the hubris and tying herself to, to the thing made it like really, really tainted. And ultimately she lost out on power and it emerges that I'm talking about Charlie Axieax.

• 53:48Justin Roczniak?

  You'd wind up like that guy, the, the, the pro wrestler guy went as a heel, the progressive liberal where people forgot it was a bit.

• 54:02Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I would not, I don't know, seeing, seeing the Harris Waltz car at the demolition derby would be very funny.

• 54:09November Kelly?

  Oh, yeah, crushed into a cube instantly.

• 54:11Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, lots of horrible delicious fried foods.

• 54:15November Kelly?

  Hmm.

• 54:16Justin Roczniak?

  Um, oh, yeah, go to the state fair, it's a good time. At the Indiana State Fair in particular, you can visit the midway. You can see automobile racing, they got a racetrack because you know, it's Indiana. The Indianapolis 500 is not so far off.

• 54:31Liam McAnderson?

  I was gonna say the Indy 500, but you know about that.

• 54:33Justin Roczniak?

  The local 4H show off their livestock. You can see high school marching bands and competitions.

• 54:40Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 54:41Justin Roczniak?

  There's also a hot air balloon race.

• 54:43Liam McAnderson?

  How do you, what?

• 54:45Justin Roczniak?

  I assume the first person to get vaguely near the county where the finish line is wins.

• 54:52Liam McAnderson?

  Bullshit, no, this should be, you should have to do this like a JDAM.

• 54:56November Kelly?

  For, for a first, for, for the first time in history, the Indiana State Fair, uh, balloon race has been won by the People's Republic of China.

• 55:07Liam McAnderson?

  Piloted by balloon boy, remember that?

• 55:09November Kelly?

  Oh, God, yeah.

• 55:11Justin Roczniak?

  In the past, there were such exciting events as velocipedestrianism. Very, very early bicycles.

• 55:20Liam McAnderson?

  Uh, velocipeds, yes.

• 55:21Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 55:22November Kelly?

  Oh, yeah.

• 55:23Justin Roczniak?

  Horse diving.

• 55:25November Kelly?

  That's so bad for the horse, they don't like it.

• 55:27Liam McAnderson?

  No, that feels cruel.

• 55:29Justin Roczniak?

  And of course, they had a eugenics event.

• 55:32Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, hey. What?

• 55:34November Kelly?

  Well, I mean, it's a logical progression in the sense that you have a bunch of, uh, like, sort of planters and like ranchers going, yeah, this is the best cow we bred in the state this year. And I am very racist by the transitive property.

• 55:49Justin Roczniak?

  They had a, this is the best baby we bred in the state this year.

• 55:54November Kelly?

  Hmm.

• 55:54Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, we have moved past such things as velocipedestrianism and eugenics.

• 56:00November Kelly?

  Uh huh.

• 56:04Justin Roczniak?

  So let's, let's talk about the Indiana State Fair Coliseum.

• 56:09November Kelly?

  Why is Garfield in this?

• 56:11Justin Roczniak?

  I'll get to why Garfield is in this in a second.

• 56:14Speaker 02

  I'm glad, because that was, that had a series of questions about Garfield.

• 56:18November Kelly?

  Why is the ticket booth so ornate?

• 56:20Justin Roczniak?

  Because this was a Works Progress Administration, uh, construction.

• 56:25Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 56:26Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, this, this was actually renamed to Corteva Coliseum, uh, today. That happened today. Yeah.

• 56:34November Kelly?

  The fuck is a Corteva?

• 56:35Justin Roczniak?

  It's some kind of big agribusiness.

• 56:38November Kelly?

  Of course it is.

• 56:39Speaker 02

  Of course it is, yeah.

• 56:40Justin Roczniak?

  Before that it was the-

• 56:41Speaker 02

  The Monsanto Farmers Coliseum. Yeah, okay, yeah.

• 56:44Justin Roczniak?

  Before that, it was the Indiana Farmers Coliseum, and before that, it was the Pepsi Coliseum.

• 56:50November Kelly?

  Yeah, so you hate, you hate to see a kind of small local producer like Pepsi bought out by a Leviathan like, like Indiana Farmers.

• 56:59Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 57:01Speaker 02

  So it's funny, so there's, there's a thing every year called the, the Royal Wealth Show. Like, the UK has like farmer's shows that are, that are kind of, like, lots of elements of this, but without some of the Americana.

• 57:11November Kelly?

  Fun vibe, a lot cheaper.

• 57:13Speaker 02

  Much cheaper, yeah. And, and they, and I suppose this is the parallel of like, the fact that Royal Wealth Show happens every year, it's in the same place. Um, it has permanent structures, so lots of it's like tents and temporary stuff, but you, for the thing that you know you need to have lots of people seated in every year, you might as well build a permanent thing that does that, right? Which I guess is what this is. It could be a tent, but actually by the time you've built an enormous bloody tent with all the seats once a year, just build a permanent structure, right?

• 57:38November Kelly?

  Yeah, it comes in useful in the off-season for miscellaneous. Plus, I mean, this isn't really a coliseum, it's like a medium museum, but like-

• 57:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 57:47Justin Roczniak?

  But, uh, yeah, so Indiana Farmers Coliseum, named after the Indiana Farmers Mutual Insurance Company, who uses Garfield as its mascot.

• 57:57November Kelly?

  Legal?

• 57:57Speaker 02

  I bet they paid like $5 in, in like 1932 for it, and they've, and they've, and they've just ridden off the back of it since.

• 58:05Justin Roczniak?

  Now, why do they use Garfield as their mascot?

• 58:08Speaker 02

  Why? Yeah, that's a good question. Why did they?

• 58:11Justin Roczniak?

  Cause Garfield lives in Indiana.

• 58:13November Kelly?

  No, he, that, that, that can't be true. I refuse to accept that.

• 58:17Speaker 02

  Garfield.

• 58:17November Kelly?

  You're not, you're not telling me that Garfield is an Indianan.

• 58:21Justin Roczniak?

  No, Garfield lives in Indiana.

• 58:22Liam McAnderson?

  I'm not, no. Prove it. Where's his, show us the long form birth certificate.

• 58:26Justin Roczniak?

  He lives in Muncie.

• 58:28November Kelly?

  I just, I, I, there's also a kind of element of like a kind of, uh, John Grisham or James Elroy thing here where it's like, the Indiana Farmers Mutual Insurance Company is, they'll, they'll kill you in the sense that that's like a, like a probably like a multi-billion dollar corporation somehow. It's just like ostensibly and like, you know, grew out of like two guys in dungarees being like, uh, bury my money in this barn. But like, now is like this kind of terrifying thing that has like tendrils all over the world that extends from Indianapolis. And is now like having a guy beaten to death in a back alley in Kowloon somehow, you know?

• 59:11Justin Roczniak?

  So yeah, I, they actually have a big Garfield mascot who hangs out in the stadium.

• 59:15Liam McAnderson?

  I don't like that at all.

• 59:16Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 59:16November Kelly?

  The, the, the mask of capital is a Garfield face, you know?

• 59:20Speaker 02

  The creator of Garfield, uh, is a resident of, is in, he's an Indiana native.

• 59:25Liam McAnderson?

  And he's a lunatic.

• 59:26Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 59:27Speaker 02

  Is he? He's from Marion.

• 59:29November Kelly?

  I mean, like, I know the Dilbert guy is insane.

• 59:32Liam McAnderson?

  Guy, so sorry, so sorry.

• 59:34November Kelly?

  I was starting to worry there was something like wrong with cartoonists.

• 59:37Justin Roczniak?

  Even more, even more.

• 59:38Liam McAnderson?

  So sorry, Jim Davis, as far as I know, is normal.

• 59:41Justin Roczniak?

  Uh, we can't, the only one we can trust is Heathcliff.

• 59:44November Kelly?

  I mean, he did drink, he did draw, uh, John drawing dog cum that one time. So, you know, maybe not that normal, but.

• 59:52Justin Roczniak?

  That's a, that's a, that's, that's a good, that's a good Garfield right there.

• 59:55November Kelly?

  We can, we can find that, Dev. If you just Google, well, don't Google Garfield dog come, but like, find it.

• 1:00:01Liam McAnderson?

  No, what?

• 1:00:03November Kelly?

  Find it.

• 1:00:05Justin Roczniak?

  There's a lot of Garfields out there that are kind of mediocre. That one's a good one.

• 1:00:09November Kelly?

  I, the thing is, I find Garfield very, very, uh, germane to like, the kind of absurdism of putting, like, Garfield out of order, or Garfield without Garfield, so it's just John talking to himself.

• 1:00:22Liam McAnderson?

  Right.

• 1:00:23November Kelly?

  Or, my favorite was the one that, there's a panel, there's one panel of Garfield where Garfield is being flung upside down, T-posed out of a window. And if you tag that on as the third panel of any Garfield comic, it's still funny.

• 1:00:39Justin Roczniak?

  So, uh, yeah, this is, this is the Corteva Coliseum, I guess, again, as of today.

• 1:00:45November Kelly?

  Uh huh.

• 1:00:46Justin Roczniak?

  Uh, it kind of looks like Old Boston Garden. I like it a lot. This is a very handsome building.

• 1:00:50Liam McAnderson?

  It does, yeah.

• 1:00:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's nice, yeah.

• 1:00:52November Kelly?

  Reminds me of, um, this is some shit from Tropico, kind of, which I, you know, big fan.

• 1:00:57Justin Roczniak?

  So, so I, I really like the, the, the ticket windows here. I assume these have been boarded up because they put HVAC back there or something, but they got like, you know, the grading is all cornstalks.

• 1:01:07Liam McAnderson?

  Beautiful, yeah.

• 1:01:07Speaker 02

  Very nice, yeah. Of course, there's cornstalks, yeah. Oh, that is nice. I like a little detail of that.

• 1:01:12Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, yeah. Well, I, it's, it's interesting. Uh, the Works Progress Administration sort of invented a new order of columns, um, where the capital-

• 1:01:21November Kelly?

  It was like, functionally, they were an ancient Greek city-state for like, a week.

• 1:01:24Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly. The, the, where the capital is like a, a, a cornstalk as opposed to, you know, the, the ancient Greek, uh, whatever. I forget.

• 1:01:32November Kelly?

  The Ionic, the Doric, the American. I mean, fuck, I, I feel a little bit like patriotic by proxy. That's cool.

• 1:01:40Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. Um, yeah, so this is a multipurpose arena. It could be set up for ice hockey, basketball. It could be set up for concerts. Um, again, this is built by the Works Progress Administration in 1939 to replace the 1907 Livestock Pavilion.

• 1:01:57Justin Roczniak?

  It formerly was the host of the Indiana Pacers. And no less than seven ice hockey teams, none of which were in the NHL.

• 1:02:07Liam McAnderson?

  They sure are trying.

• 1:02:08November Kelly?

  Doing, doing ice hockey in Indiana angers gods. I think this is clear at this point to anyone, to everyone except Indianans.

• 1:02:17Justin Roczniak?

  It's, it's a lot better than doing it in Las Vegas.

• 1:02:20Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, fuck the Knights, dude.

• 1:02:22Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:25Justin Roczniak?

  Sixty eight hundred seats when configured for basketball, sixty two hundred for ice hockey. You know, today it's just not big or modern enough for professional athletics. They all moved downtown to the Gainbridge Fieldhouse. They still use it for smaller events and concerts and like high school sports and stuff like that. They hosted the Beatles in nineteen sixty four.

• 1:02:45Liam McAnderson?

  Wow.

• 1:02:45November Kelly?

  Huh.

• 1:02:46Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:47November Kelly?

  The recording for it was just solid screaming as every Beatles live act recording was.

• 1:02:51Justin Roczniak?

  Mm hmm. Yeah. So this is a pretty nice venue, in my opinion. Now we have to talk about fire inspections.

• 1:02:59November Kelly?

  I, I, I desire this car aesthetically.

• 1:03:03Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:04November Kelly?

  Let, let me, let me drive this around. If, listen, okay, everybody got mad at me, right? I got a new compromise thing that's gonna make only seventy percent of the people mad at me. Let me be a fire marshal. You get the car, they, I think they give you a gun. You definitely have a badge. That's like most of the ways you're like a car.

• 1:03:25Liam McAnderson?

  Good, right?

• 1:03:25November Kelly?

  Yeah, I think so.

• 1:03:27Liam McAnderson?

  Fire police and PA, I don't think carry firearms.

• 1:03:31Speaker 02

  The guy, our, our friend here on the left, on the right of the photo, seems to be enjoying it as well. He, he seems to be puckering at the, at the, at the fire marshal vehicle. He seems quite pleased.

• 1:03:39November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:03:41November Kelly?

  I was.

• 1:03:41Speaker 02

  That, that white arm. No, it's gorgeous, gorgeous.

• 1:03:45Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. So for any building that's like a large venue, fire inspections are important and ought to be conducted regularly.

• 1:03:52November Kelly?

  Yeah, by a guy with a cool as possible of a car.

• 1:03:55Justin Roczniak?

  Yes, these inspections are the purview of the fire marshal. During these inspections, of course, you're looking for anything that might cause a fire or which may impede evacuation if a fire were to occur, like, you know, a whole bunch of crap stored in the stairwell.

• 1:04:09November Kelly?

  And padlocked emergency exits.

• 1:04:11Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, padlocked doors, improperly stored flammables or whatever, right?

• 1:04:17Justin Roczniak?

  Now, fire inspections are important, but they only work if you actually have the manpower and the wherewithal to do them.

• 1:04:25November Kelly?

  One of the first things that any fire department facing budget pressures cuts.

• 1:04:30Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:30Liam McAnderson?

  Yep.

• 1:04:31Speaker 02

  This stuff. Yeah, exactly.

• 1:04:32Justin Roczniak?

  In Indianapolis in 1963, there was a problem with both of these. The Indianapolis Fire Department had shortened the work week from 70 hours to a leisurely 63 hours.

• 1:04:45November Kelly?

  Oh, God.

• 1:04:46Speaker 02

  Ah, those lazy pricks.

• 1:04:47November Kelly?

  Yeah. They, they, they read, you know, they read the thing about eight hours for work, eight hours for leisure, another eight hours for leisure.

• 1:04:57Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly. That's, that's, that's, that's basically how much the French work.

• 1:05:04Justin Roczniak?

  This resulted in the shortage of manpower.

• 1:05:06Liam McAnderson?

  Fire police do not carry weapons. Sorry, that took me so long.

• 1:05:10November Kelly?

  Still, still a cool job title, though.

• 1:05:12Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, they're basically just glorified traffic cops, but they, they.

• 1:05:15November Kelly?

  What's, what's, what's the car look like? Let me Google this right quick.

• 1:05:18Liam McAnderson?

  Uh, it's, yeah, it's, I mean, I think it's municipal based, but there, there are some that are like, pretty sick.

• 1:05:24November Kelly?

  Fire police car. I'm just seeing a lot of police cars on fire.

• 1:05:28Liam McAnderson?

  No, do fire police car, Fire Police Pennsylvania.

• 1:05:31November Kelly?

  Oh, that's pretty sick. A bunch of like old, like 90s SUVs, like an old disaster movie. Okay, that's sick.

• 1:05:37Speaker 02

  Oh, nice. Okay. Yeah, that's a nice font. You just know that in the UK, it's a hatchback Astra.

• 1:05:41November Kelly?

  A 1990 Suburban that you have to drive for work? Incredible. Fuck the climate. This rules.

• 1:05:48Liam McAnderson?

  Pennsylvania does it different, baby.

• 1:05:51Justin Roczniak?

  I don't know. Someone's gonna have to send this to Devon so they can put it up on the screen.

• 1:05:56Liam McAnderson?

  All right.

• 1:05:56November Kelly?

  I'm not gonna remember to do that.

• 1:05:57Justin Roczniak?

  No, no, we're not gonna remember to do that.

• 1:05:59Liam McAnderson?

  She's so tired, bros.

• 1:06:03Justin Roczniak?

  Now furthermore, the fire chief in Indianapolis believed that because the Coliseum was state-owned property.

• 1:06:10Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:06:11Justin Roczniak?

  It was outside of his jurisdiction, even though it was inside the city limits.

• 1:06:15November Kelly?

  You gotta have some kind of state fire marshal, you know?

• 1:06:18Justin Roczniak?

  Yes. Thus, the inspections were rare and only cursory. Usually, usually they just inspected it right before the state fair, even though the Coliseum was leased to promoters and held events throughout the year.

• 1:06:30November Kelly?

  Uh huh.

• 1:06:31Justin Roczniak?

  Now, you might ask, okay, what's the risk of fire in a fireproof Coliseum?

• 1:06:37November Kelly?

  Hey, you can't burn down a Coliseum. I haven't seen Gladiator 2 yet, so I assume.

• 1:06:40Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, it's all, it's all made of brick and like, uh, concrete and, you know, metal, you know?

• 1:06:46November Kelly?

  Yeah. It's ice hockey. You've got ice in there. Was the ice, was the ice gonna catch fire?

• 1:06:51Liam McAnderson?

  It might. I don't like that. Oh, Ross.

• 1:06:55November Kelly?

  Wait a minute.

• 1:06:56Justin Roczniak?

  We will talk about the ice, not in the context of fire. In, in the Coliseum, of course, they serve concessions.

• 1:07:04November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:05Justin Roczniak?

  Concessions need to be heated.

• 1:07:07November Kelly?

  Uh, oh boy, this is gonna suck ass. Just, just a shitload of burning corn dogs.

• 1:07:12Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, this is about, this is about, I want to say, four miles north of the city center. There's no municipal gas line out here, so the heat comes from propane, which needs to be stored. Where's there a lot of room for storage in a Coliseum?

• 1:07:27November Kelly?

  The basement?

• 1:07:28Justin Roczniak?

  Under the seats.

• 1:07:30November Kelly?

  Oh.

• 1:07:32November Kelly?

  Oh.

• 1:07:33Justin Roczniak?

  Now, do you see a problem that may develop here? Cause...

• 1:07:36November Kelly?

  I'm, I'm not, I'm deliberately not. I'm looking at the corn dog. I'm thinking about how good a corn dog's gonna taste and I'm, I'm just not thinking about it.

• 1:07:43Speaker 02

  So, so for everyone, anyone who uses the Asda in Adel in North Leeds, there's a space underneath that Asda that's called, by the staff, called the Void. Cause when they built the, the Asda, they built, the, the Asda was, you know, it's basically a giant warehouse. They built it flat. But it was built on a, on a, a plot that was on a slight slope. And the Void, uh, the bit that you could actually access without stooping had lights. It was kind of like basically fine. They use it for storing stuff. But they also store stuff in the Void, which was the bit where you open the door, go in, there were no lights, and it disappeared off into infinity under this, you know, Amy along building.

• 1:08:19November Kelly?

  You can't be like, hey, can you store this bag of like crisps or whatever? And then this, this pallet in the, in the Void?

• 1:08:25Speaker 02

  That is literally what they did, yes. Um, and what I love is, um, there could be anything in there, since that thing was built in presumably the late 90s. So, the, yeah, so if you're using the Asda Adel, just be aware that you might be stood on, above anything and it could be flammable. It could be, um, yeah, who knows? So, Asda Adel, shout out.

• 1:08:44November Kelly?

  Yeah. Have been addled by this information.

• 1:08:50Justin Roczniak?

  So, you know, there's a problem that may develop here. Um, we'll talk about here the commissary, which was located under aisle 13.

• 1:08:59Liam McAnderson?

  Oh.

• 1:09:00Justin Roczniak?

  Um, I'm just going to read the caption here. This is an artist's conception of the approximate dispositions of materials in the concession commissary at the Coliseum. According to an eyewitness, a radiant heat device, number one, fired by propane gas was used to heat pre-popped popcorn in a storage bin.

• 1:09:21November Kelly?

  Not the popcorn heater.

• 1:09:23Justin Roczniak?

  A nearby.

• 1:09:24November Kelly?

  You were supposed to serve man, not betray him.

• 1:09:29Liam McAnderson?

  To serve.

• 1:09:32Justin Roczniak?

  A nearby tank.

• 1:09:35November Kelly?

  Feeling like emotionally like the popcorn heater has betrayed its purpose.

• 1:09:41Speaker 02

  I don't know why I just immediately my mind just put you into a berry and you were just dressing like Sergeant started dressing down this like slightly sheepish looking popcorn machine.

• 1:09:51November Kelly?

  That's not your popcorn. That's the king's popcorn.

• 1:09:58Speaker 02

  Oh dear, I must be delirious.

• 1:09:59November Kelly?

  Yep.

• 1:10:00Speaker 02

  Probably still hungover.

• 1:10:02Justin Roczniak?

  A nearby tank of propane apparently became overheated and the safety valve was popped, causing the gas to flow from the valve and the tank to fall over.

• 1:10:09Speaker 02

  Oh no, I don't like that.

• 1:10:11Justin Roczniak?

  It's about a hundred pound tank propane.

• 1:10:13November Kelly?

  Five, five, five second rule. You pick it back up. It's all good.

• 1:10:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:10:18Justin Roczniak?

  Another popcorn storage bin, number three here, was being warmed by an electric cone type heating element.

• 1:10:25Speaker 02

  Right. Okay. So as you're describing this, I know this is a little bit lefty to describing this. I'm, I'm visualizing like six or seven different like kind of weird heating constructions of varying types and sizes.

• 1:10:39November Kelly?

  Yeah, just like individually. Popcorn kernels and like the, the music powerhouse is playing.

• 1:10:46Justin Roczniak?

  This is the propane popcorn. This is the electric popcorn. This is the charcoal popcorn.

• 1:10:52Speaker 02

  Do you think the popcorn is like a popcorn connoisseur?

• 1:10:54Justin Roczniak?

  Popcorn.

• 1:10:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:57November Kelly?

  I believe I believe that like there was there was a point in the Pennsylvania State Fair's history where you could have got like anthracite popcorn. I believe this.

• 1:11:07Liam McAnderson?

  Pennsylvania dominance.

• 1:11:09November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:11Justin Roczniak?

  I mean, coal-fired pizza is still a thing that's single-handedly holding up the Pennsylvania anthracite industry.

• 1:11:18Speaker 02

  Grief. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:20Justin Roczniak?

  Also, still some home heating.

• 1:11:23Speaker 02

  Hmm. So all these things are wiggling and jiggling and falling over in this in this void underneath the seats at aisle 13.

• 1:11:32Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:32Liam McAnderson?

  What's really funny about this is this disaster happened on Halloween and we didn't do it for the Halloween episode.

• 1:11:39Speaker 02

  Say.

• 1:11:42November Kelly?

  Yeah. Why is your Halloween costume?

• 1:11:45Justin Roczniak?

  This is on October 31st. Um, it's maybe not in order here, but.

• 1:11:50November Kelly?

  That's that's rough. If you get like blown up and you're wearing a costume, you know, you gotta go. You gotta go to the hospital and they're like, you know, trying to reattach your arm. You're wearing a Dracula cape.

• 1:12:02Justin Roczniak?

  Sometime shortly before the events we are about to describe, a manager opened the door to the commissary, saw a thick fog inside, closed the door, involved employees to get out.

• 1:12:14November Kelly?

  I'll just put this over here with the rest of the propane.

• 1:12:20Justin Roczniak?

  One man went in to try to stop the leak and failed miserably. I don't know what happened to him. I'm going to be honest.

• 1:12:26November Kelly?

  I I have a guess. I have a guess. Like, that's that's rough. That I mean, fucking trying to do the like Chernobyl reactor diver shit, but you're one Indiana man is.

• 1:12:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, you've got like fireworks, but it's popcorn exploding around you like.

• 1:12:45November Kelly?

  Give that man the Indiana Medal of Honor. Like he went into, he went into the like, you know, the gap of danger, right?

• 1:12:52Justin Roczniak?

  In the popcorn reactor.

• 1:12:56November Kelly?

  He was in the popcorn reactor vessel. What is this if not a pressure vessel to contain popcorn?

• 1:13:03Justin Roczniak?

  You have to dip the the control rods in, but they're corn dogs.

• 1:13:08November Kelly?

  Now, granted, the the pressure differential is one to one, but it's a pressure vessel for containing popcorn reactions.

• 1:13:16November Kelly?

  Ah, yeah.

• 1:13:17Justin Roczniak?

  So now you may ask, okay, why, why are these things running at all? What's the event? It's not the state fair. It's a separate event, which the Coliseum was rented out for. It was, of course, the performance of Holiday on Ice.

• 1:13:32Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, no, no.

• 1:13:33November Kelly?

  Oh, this sounds like it sucks.

• 1:13:34Liam McAnderson?

  No, no. Well, it's gotta suck a little more, Nova.

• 1:13:38Justin Roczniak?

  This is a very long running.

• 1:13:40Liam McAnderson?

  It's too early for this, but this is what you get for doing Christmas before Thanksgiving.

• 1:13:45Justin Roczniak?

  It's not even Christmas themed is the interesting part.

• 1:13:48Liam McAnderson?

  It's a holiday.

• 1:13:49Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. No, they, they, they do like a different theme every year.

• 1:13:53Liam McAnderson?

  Every holiday?

• 1:13:54November Kelly?

  Yeah, this one was Kwanzaa, weirdly enough.

• 1:13:56Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I believe, I think they have done a Kwanzaa themed show. Yeah, I, I am, I'm not super familiar with the ice show scene, but I believe this was actually the first one and it is still running to this day.

• 1:14:08November Kelly?

  I went to say, um, uh, fucking Shenyuan, China before communism on ice.

• 1:14:18Justin Roczniak?

  But yeah, this is on October 31st, 1963. It's the first show of an 11 day run of Holiday on Ice.

• 1:14:26November Kelly?

  Grand.

• 1:14:27Justin Roczniak?

  Now, this show starts a little late, but not so late as to cause an uproar. It starts at 8:45 instead of 8:30. So the show was supposed to wrap up around 11:15 instead of 11 as scheduled.

• 1:14:39November Kelly?

  Charlie Cheeplin at the front there.

• 1:14:41Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:42November Kelly?

  Very good.

• 1:14:43Justin Roczniak?

  There's, uh.

• 1:14:44November Kelly?

  And me boymoding standing next to him.

• 1:14:48Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:14:49November Kelly?

  Devin, you can put that picture up if you want.

• 1:14:52Justin Roczniak?

  There's 4,327 spectators for opening night.

• 1:14:57November Kelly?

  Uh huh.

• 1:14:59Justin Roczniak?

  With propane slowly filling the commissary.

• 1:15:02November Kelly?

  It's, uh, and, mm, mm.

• 1:15:05Justin Roczniak?

  Now, at 11:06.

• 1:15:08November Kelly?

  Oh, God, um.

• 1:15:10Justin Roczniak?

  As the show is wrapping up.

• 1:15:12November Kelly?

  Six, we, we pop the fuck out of some corn.

• 1:15:17November Kelly?

  We pop more corn, more like to a greater extent than has ever previously been popped.

• 1:15:26Justin Roczniak?

  The corn popped.

• 1:15:28November Kelly?

  My god. The corn pop heard round the world.

• 1:15:33Justin Roczniak?

  Yes. Yeah, Justice's finale began at aisle 13. There was enormous boom just underneath the box seats. A 700 square foot section of the seating and floor flew up into the air and came back down, smashing a load bearing wall below, which collapsed and took out another 500 square feet of floor with it.

• 1:15:54November Kelly?

  Jesus, it's like a mortar, like a trench mortar.

• 1:15:57Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 1:15:58Speaker 02

  And in amongst all of it is just gallons of half cooked popcorn.

• 1:16:02November Kelly?

  Yes. Raining body parts and corn dogs.

• 1:16:06Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:06Speaker 02

  Jeez.

• 1:16:07Justin Roczniak?

  It took a moment for anyone to figure out what had happened. Many of the people who were not directly viewing the exploded stands thought that since there had been small pirate techniques as part of the performance, maybe this was actually part of the show. Until I looked and saw the destroyed stands.

• 1:16:24Speaker 02

  People sat there with their hair like comedically like goths, like stretched to one side with like the comedy like Daffy Duck beat spun around the back of their head. Going, going, jeez, was that part of the show? Or, uh, yeah, bloody hell.

• 1:16:40Justin Roczniak?

  It was soon clear there was a horrible accident. People were strewn across the ice. They were crushed under big concrete blocks. They were mangled in a big pit of debris. It was very ugly to behold.

• 1:16:52Speaker 02

  This is also, this is, this is a family show, right?

• 1:16:56Justin Roczniak?

  Yes, very much, very much so. Um, now despite this, there was general.

• 1:17:04November Kelly?

  Could it not have been, I ask this rhetorically to God, could it not have been a show that was like, you know, for unlikable losers, right? Like people that you wouldn't miss, like anonymous showing up, you know? Why is it always when the roof comes in, why is it always the like, the like, the completely blameless like, oh, you know, here's, here's a benefit we did for the local kids. Why is it, why does this never happen to the letting agents national convention?

• 1:17:35Justin Roczniak?

  November, November, only the good die young.

• 1:17:38November Kelly?

  Uh.

• 1:17:40Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:41November Kelly?

  I mean, you joke about that, but the number of train crashes, the number of formative train crashes in the UK that involve like a holiday train full of children is actually notable.

• 1:17:50Justin Roczniak?

  It's about to say, it's about to say, you know, you, you, you see that big train full of-

• 1:17:54November Kelly?

  We're gonna give this one to our drunkest driver.

• 1:17:56Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly. It's like, yeah, yeah, this train is full of, uh, nuns and orphans. Let's, let's give it to, uh, drunk Uncle Bob.

• 1:18:04Liam McAnderson?

  That's my Uncle Bob. Oh, we miss him every day.

• 1:18:08Justin Roczniak?

  So anyway, um, despite this huge explosion, by and large, there's an aura of calm in the auditorium, right? Or in the, in the Coliseum. Um, the holiday on ice band, in fact, keeps playing to keep everyone calm.

• 1:18:21November Kelly?

  Nearer my god to thee.

• 1:18:23Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, people start to evacuate in an orderly fashion. That's when the second-

• 1:18:28November Kelly?

  It's been an honor. I, what?

• 1:18:30Justin Roczniak?

  The second explosion happens.

• 1:18:32November Kelly?

  Oh, no. Mister President, a second, a second popcorn reactor has struck the Iowa State Coliseum?

• 1:18:41Justin Roczniak?

  This time, there was a 40-foot fireball contained entirely within the Coliseum.

• 1:18:48November Kelly?

  They, wait, this was October 1963?

• 1:18:52Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 1:18:53November Kelly?

  They would have had to tell Kennedy about this?

• 1:18:56Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:57November Kelly?

  And Kennedy was like, damn, that's crazy. By the way, everything's still good for me to go to Dallas next month, right?

• 1:19:04Justin Roczniak?

  It's surprising how, uh, how often that comes up in this podcast.

• 1:19:07November Kelly?

  Yeah, right? Like, I don't know, it's, it's like 9/11, right? I can relate to, cause I know the date of the Kennedy assassination, cause the Stephen King book, I can relate stuff chronologically to it. Huh. Happy, happy birthday, by the way, the president's been shot. That apparently is how it went, yes. Jesus.

• 1:19:24Justin Roczniak?

  Uh, the debris with many trapped underneath was now also on fire.

• 1:19:31November Kelly?

  Uh, just like trapped under concrete block, like, well, this can't get any worse. The concrete block is now on fire.

• 1:19:37Justin Roczniak?

  Now on fire, yes. Uh, lots of people were buried underneath concrete slabs weighing five to 10 tons.

• 1:19:46Speaker 02

  You're not, you're not walking that off.

• 1:19:48Justin Roczniak?

  No, no, that's gonna be.

• 1:19:49November Kelly?

  Why can this never happen to like a Trump rallying? You know?

• 1:19:53Speaker 02

  Cause there's never enough of them there.

• 1:19:55Justin Roczniak?

  That's a good point, yeah. Yeah, it'd be embarrassing if like an empty section, the stands blew up.

• 1:20:00November Kelly?

  Why, why this and why not Trump on ice? Or I guess 1963 equivalent, so George Wallace on ice.

• 1:20:07Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, George Wallace on ice, oh god.

• 1:20:09November Kelly?

  Doing a long spin and he's just out there saying the word.

• 1:20:15November Kelly?

  Singing the word, actually.

• 1:20:18November Kelly?

  You have a beautiful contralto, it's, it's, I, you know, I don't wanna, I don't wanna add it to him, but it's like, it's really technically impressive.

• 1:20:29Justin Roczniak?

  This, um, now this fire dies down pretty quickly because it is being fueled by the propane, which, you know, sort of disperses, right? Yeah, but it does burn a lot of people.

• 1:20:39November Kelly?

  At least it burns off clean, you know, odorless, you know, like, you know, given the charcoal scent.

• 1:20:47Justin Roczniak?

  Hope you're, I hope you're not wearing polyester.

• 1:20:51November Kelly?

  Oh, it's the 60s, everyone's wearing polyester.

• 1:20:54Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 1:20:54Liam McAnderson?

  Oh yeah, you are going up like a, like a Christmas tree.

• 1:20:58Justin Roczniak?

  So it's very apparent pretty early on that a lot of people are dead or injured, right? An off-duty firefighter called the Indianapolis Fire Department within minutes of the explosion, saying there are probably 50 to 100 people injured in this, in his estimation. Police were on the scene by 11:15, shortly followed by the media and only then by the fire department.

• 1:21:19November Kelly?

  The budget cuts again, you know? That 63-hour work week really cutting into response times.

• 1:21:25Justin Roczniak?

  The American Red Cross and the Salvation Army also dispatched personnel, civil defense arrived on the scene.

• 1:21:31November Kelly?

  If I'm dying and this fucking Salvation Army are trying to save me, let me die. Put me back in, put me back in.

• 1:21:40November Kelly?

  You put that concrete block back on top of me.

• 1:21:43Justin Roczniak?

  Bore.

• 1:21:44Liam McAnderson?

  Wait.

• 1:21:48Justin Roczniak?

  You had civil defense, um, you know, countless other rescue and relief organizations, just, they hear about this and they send everything they can, right?

• 1:21:57Speaker 02

  Oh dear.

• 1:21:59Justin Roczniak?

  What resulted was an enormous traffic jam of emergency equipment.

• 1:22:03November Kelly?

  Incident command management is a skill.

• 1:22:09Speaker 02

  Gold, silver, bronze. It's actually very important to manage this stuff extremely carefully.

• 1:22:14November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:14Justin Roczniak?

  In fact, you can sort of see this in this picture. This is inside the auditorium. You can see a lot of ambulances. You can see a tow truck here. You can see probably a police car over here that's sort of blocking a way out.

• 1:22:26November Kelly?

  Lot of people milling around.

• 1:22:28Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:28November Kelly?

  Like no clear function.

• 1:22:30Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, it's just like, damn, look at that.

• 1:22:34November Kelly?

  Yeah, that's, that's, that's the, that's an aftermath type job. That's what the NTSB or like, you know, the sort of like Accident Investigation Board do, you know?

• 1:22:43Speaker 02

  So it's a situation, I, I, okay, yeah, okay, it's easy for me to post more than this. I would not be bringing vehicles in here. I would be getting people, I'd be human training people in and out so that you have clear working space.

• 1:22:53November Kelly?

  Hmm.

• 1:22:53Speaker 02

  Because also you're doing all the excavation of material and, yeah.

• 1:22:58Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. So everyone races the Coliseum. I mean, the first and biggest problem was the police, right?

• 1:23:04November Kelly?

  Oh, races.

• 1:23:05Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. They had more officers on duty than normal because it was Halloween, right? All the kids are getting into mischief.

• 1:23:12November Kelly?

  Uh huh. Yeah, people are putting fentanyl in the sixties candies.

• 1:23:15Justin Roczniak?

  Exactly.

• 1:23:16Liam McAnderson?

  Those kids deserved it.

• 1:23:18Justin Roczniak?

  Guys, it was like, what was the 1960s drug of choice?

• 1:23:22Liam McAnderson?

  Quaaludes, bud.

• 1:23:23November Kelly?

  Putting, putting quaaludes in my 1960s candy and poisoning a bunch of racist children.

• 1:23:29Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, oh no.

• 1:23:32Justin Roczniak?

  What's the one? What's the one that gave all the nasty birth defects?

• 1:23:36Liam McAnderson?

  Bolivarian bud.

• 1:23:37November Kelly?

  Hmm.

• 1:23:39Justin Roczniak?

  So of course they, they rush the Coliseum and they park all their squad cars at the sort of jaunty angle typical of police.

• 1:23:46November Kelly?

  I love parking. It's, it's one of the most like offensive things. Just to be like, I'm parked at like a 70 degree angle across like three handicapped spaces and a bike lane. Um, I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave it parked there for four and a half hours.

• 1:24:04Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. There's blocked access for everyone else.

• 1:24:07Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, you'll get nothing in like it.

• 1:24:10Justin Roczniak?

  Of those vehicles and personnel, of those vehicles and personnel that made it to the scene, there was very little that could be done for anyone but the most accessible victims.

• 1:24:20November Kelly?

  One of the more satisfying videos I've seen on YouTube is an FDNY engine physically moving an NYPD car that was blocking it out of the way.

• 1:24:30Liam McAnderson?

  Yes.

• 1:24:31November Kelly?

  And just sort of like idly crushing it and pushing it aside.

• 1:24:35Justin Roczniak?

  You piece of shit. Get out of my way.

• 1:24:41Justin Roczniak?

  The debris was, of course, too heavy to lift by hand, so police radioed for tow trucks and mobile cranes, and the tow trucks showed up, a whole shitload of them, and they were of no use. They needed to lift the debris, not drag it around and potentially injure more people.

• 1:24:57November Kelly?

  Yeah, dragging the like six-ton concrete block off my legs, just smearing the whole like lower half of my body across the ice.

• 1:25:06Justin Roczniak?

  About to say, you get turned into an uncooked smash burger.

• 1:25:09November Kelly?

  Oh.

• 1:25:12Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. Finally, by 11:35, police from neighboring Speedway, I don't know if you could call Speedway a neighboring municipality, it's entirely surrounded by Indianapolis, you know, they managed to locate and borrow a mobile crane, which was then given the world's slowest police escort to the site of the disaster, arriving at 12:50 a.m., and then it got stuck in the traffic jam.

• 1:25:37November Kelly?

  Of course. So we're nearly two hours, correct me if I'm wrong on the timeline, so we're nearly two hours now after the event, right?

• 1:25:43Justin Roczniak?

  Two hours after the event, the mobile crane makes it there. Here it is over here. It's on tracks because it's 1963. It's not one of the new ones that, you know, can go fast.

• 1:25:53November Kelly?

  Course.

• 1:25:54Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. The coroner of Marion County arrived at 11:45 p.m., right? He managed to fight his way through the ambulances and fire trucks and heavy equipment, civil defense vehicles, Salvation Army canteen trucks, so on and so forth.

• 1:26:09November Kelly?

  Ice cream vans. He's like punching his way through chaplains like the opening of Airplane. I provide important pastoral care to the pow.

• 1:26:18Justin Roczniak?

  I was thinking of a separate scene from Airplane where they dispatch all the emergency vehicles and they have like the air stairs.

• 1:26:30Justin Roczniak?

  That's what's coming into the area here.

• 1:26:33November Kelly?

  Well, you're near the Indy 500. Shriner's heavy rescue squad is a little tiny truck.

• 1:26:38Justin Roczniak?

  It was Shriner's night, actually.

• 1:26:41November Kelly?

  Oh my god, Fez is on the ground.

• 1:26:48Liam McAnderson?

  Their tiny hats.

• 1:26:53Justin Roczniak?

  Um, you know, he, when, when the coroner shows up, he is the first physician on the scene.

• 1:26:58November Kelly?

  Jesus Christ, to do like, is there a doctor in the house and it's two hours later?

• 1:27:04Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, yeah, I'm here. Sorry, I've been drinking.

• 1:27:07Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, no, it's only 11:45. Uh, he's there. The crane hasn't arrived yet.

• 1:27:12Speaker 02

  Understood. Forty-five minutes is still pretty bad, though. Like, people died by that point, who would have known otherwise?

• 1:27:19Justin Roczniak?

  He's the first person to-

• 1:27:20November Kelly?

  What are you doing, but triage, you know, just be like, dead, dead, dead, almost dead, almost dead, dead?

• 1:27:25Justin Roczniak?

  Well, he's, uh, he's, he's too overworked to triage. The only thing he can do is give like the trapped victims who are not yet dead, some comfort in the form of lots of morphine.

• 1:27:36Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, that tracks.

• 1:27:37Speaker 02

  I'll do it.

• 1:27:39Justin Roczniak?

  You know, until like the crane showed up and additional, uh, physicians, um, you know, it wasn't until, uh, like 12:50 when they could set up a makeshift morgue. Now, conveniently, they were on an ice rink, so, you know, they-

• 1:27:54November Kelly?

  Well, that's convenient, you know?

• 1:27:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:27:58Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:28:02November Kelly?

  At least one aspect of this was well-planned by accident.

• 1:28:05Justin Roczniak?

  By accident, yeah. So, you know, there, there's the, the makeshift morgue in the foreground of this photo.

• 1:28:11November Kelly?

  Jesus.

• 1:28:12Justin Roczniak?

  You know, about 11:50, the police chief of Indianapolis finally showed up to the scene, having also fought his way through other emergency vehicles, set up a command post to finally get all these various relief organizations organized.

• 1:28:26November Kelly?

  Yeah, turns out that that's important. You can't just like throw things at the thing and hope it works itself out.

• 1:28:32Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, so we finally have some traffic control. All right, so here, here is the, uh, Coliseum here. Here is the adjacent building, uh, which at the time was known as the cattle barn.

• 1:28:45Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:45Speaker 02

  Am I, am I seeing- Cattle in it.

• 1:28:48November Kelly?

  Am I seeing a Salvation Army canteen directly in front of the site of the explosion?

• 1:28:55Justin Roczniak?

  Yes, they, they, they got in really early and started making coffee.

• 1:28:59November Kelly?

  Oh, that's nice of them. I have some suggestions for what they should do with it. I, I hate the fucking Salvation Army, and I wasn't expecting to come out of this episode with a second reason.

• 1:29:11Liam McAnderson?

  I'm so proud of you.

• 1:29:12Speaker 02

  They'll get you.

• 1:29:14Justin Roczniak?

  Uh, Union busters, uh, they hate gay people. Um, they will take your, uh, unused, uh, surplus clothing though. Um, I don't know.

• 1:29:23Speaker 02

  And they'll cover up abuse scandals in the process.

• 1:29:25Justin Roczniak?

  Oh yeah, they do that as well. Alright, so there's this solid mass of emergency vehicles blocking all routes in and out of the Coliseum.

• 1:29:33Liam McAnderson?

  Your emergency slot is so cool dude.

• 1:29:36Justin Roczniak?

  There's no coordination between any relief organizations. The chief of police takes control, sets up an actual command post in the fair's administrative building. That's, that's down here or over here, depending on which of these images you're looking at. He ordered the fairgrounds sealed off until they could figure out what the hell was going on while local relief organizations were still bombarding the site with ambulances, buses, fire trucks, wreckers.

• 1:30:02Speaker 02

  These things are piling up like it's, uh, like Blues Brothers.

• 1:30:05Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:06Justin Roczniak?

  They're sending, they're sending.

• 1:30:08November Kelly?

  This is like Kleinstadtari. This is like every fucking county just has a like volunteer fire service, but it's just no coordination and it's just sending in more shit.

• 1:30:18Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. The, the funeral homes are even sending in hearses. There's dozens of cars full of various volunteers from like civil defense, from like, uh, you know, um, um, uh, they, they, they got a, you got Red Cross and Salvation Army.

• 1:30:34November Kelly?

  In, in, in. Venice to the, the funeral homes. A lot of them were like ambulance services also at this point, uh, like, in fact, the, the sort of like form of the ambulance evolved out of the hearses. Did they, uh, they ran a few as like so-called combination cars for a long time.

• 1:30:49Justin Roczniak?

  That's convenient if you die on route.

• 1:30:52November Kelly?

  Yeah, exactly. Just change the sign over.

• 1:30:54Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, just a little roller like a bu- like in a bus. You just roll it from like funeral, yeah, into funeral for ambulance. Yeah, that's it.

• 1:31:03Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. I believe the, the army was saturating the area with army ambulances.

• 1:31:08Liam McAnderson?

  Oh my god.

• 1:31:09Speaker 02

  Oh my god. I'm just, it's like a van turns up and a bunch of mimes get out and start doing it.

• 1:31:13November Kelly?

  Army brackets salvation, army brackets regular.

• 1:31:18November Kelly?

  Army brackets mime.

• 1:31:20Justin Roczniak?

  This is, I think, a big win for Colossal Order, the publishers of Cities Skylines. You thought emergency vehicle traffic jams were fake? No, they're very real.

• 1:31:30November Kelly?

  No, they are. This reminds me of a top-down video game I used to play.

• 1:31:37November Kelly?

  Do you remember the emergency series? I think they released it as like 911 first responders. I used to love that game. Love that fucking game. Didn't never really got a proper sequel. I think there's like a free-to-play one now. But yeah, like, large part of it is like, there's a gap in the market for that kind of like, Incident Command Management RTS game, you know?

• 1:31:57Justin Roczniak?

  The local churches were sending priests and ministers in cars.

• 1:32:01November Kelly?

  Oh, my. I was joking about having to fight your way through a bunch of clergy, but like, every denomination is represented.

• 1:32:10Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I was about to say, we found a one, the one like Shinto guy.

• 1:32:17November Kelly?

  He's in there, he's ringing the little bell, you know?

• 1:32:23Justin Roczniak?

  So the chief of police is like, okay, we need.

• 1:32:25November Kelly?

  Just on the radio, like, have you got the concrete blocks off the guys yet? And some poor Indianapolis firefighter is like, no, but I did learn that the temple bells reflect the impermanence of all human life.

• 1:32:41Justin Roczniak?

  So.

• 1:32:41November Kelly?

  Chief, I got no attachments over here.

• 1:32:47Justin Roczniak?

  The, uh, the chief of police at the command post finally says, all right, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna have a triage in the cattle barn. Cattle barn is just an open space. It's not like full of like dirt on the floor and crap. But they do put cattle in there for the state fair. But it wasn't the state fair, so there's no cows in there. You know, we're gonna do that. We're going to move the police vehicles out of the arena and away from the area. We are going to have a one-way loop for ambulances through the cattle barn to pick people up.

• 1:33:22November Kelly?

  Oh, they did in traffic design.

• 1:33:23Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:24November Kelly?

  It's a good system. It's a good system and it's like actually a convenient site for it, you know?

• 1:33:30Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. It's indoors, it's enclosed, you know, because you can drive vehicles in and out of the building. I believe there were specific gates for the entrance and exit.

• 1:33:40November Kelly?

  Can draw a nice, clean diagram of it, too.

• 1:33:43Justin Roczniak?

  Exactly.

• 1:33:45Speaker 02

  So I guess, very quickly, in the Google Earth image you've got on screen, Roz, there's loads of car parking space. I'm guessing that wasn't necessarily quite as extensive then. It might have just been like open fields, maybe.

• 1:33:58Justin Roczniak?

  I do not think so, but I don't know.

• 1:34:02Speaker 02

  I just think, because like, yeah, if he's saying do it in the barn, I presume that was, it was covered, it was the right space to do that. Like, they didn't have all that big, open, concrete of tarmac. Because the thing I'd have been saying is, okay, all your vehicles, fuck off over there. You can go around in circles, I don't care, just leave. All of you go away, and I will come for you if you're needed. If there's this bizarre, like, Blues Brothers kind of pileup going on with all the lights, sirens, like, people turning up and the sirens going,

• 1:34:27Justin Roczniak?

  Completely definite. They, yeah, so they moved the police cars out. They let the mobile crane into the arena finally, after making the space for it, so they could finally pick up these big concrete blocks. And they moved the Salvation Army canteen truck into the Coliseum for, you know, the coffee. I think they set up a grill as well.

• 1:34:47Speaker 02

  Uh huh. I would not feel very hungry, but, you know.

• 1:34:51Justin Roczniak?

  Well, I just hope it's not propane grill.

• 1:34:53Liam McAnderson?

  I would like a hot dog.

• 1:34:54Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, yeah. But there's still further disorganization occurring, right? So while they're being bombarded with ambulances, no one's coordinating which hospital do we send these people to?

• 1:35:05Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 1:35:08Justin Roczniak?

  There was some instruction. There's a vague idea, okay, we're gonna balance this between the hospitals. We're going to, you know, because there's a lot of hospitals available. Specifically, the Samaritan Hospital was very well-prepared to receive quite a lot of victims from this. Although no one was really prepared, because no one thought to contact the hospitals beforehand. Hey, there's been an incident. Yeah.

• 1:35:30Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, yeah. Oh, this is quality disaster response.

• 1:35:34Speaker 02

  Pick up the phone!

• 1:35:35Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:36Speaker 02

  Send a guy, one of the 50 cars that you have parked blocking the entrance?

• 1:35:44Justin Roczniak?

  So, uh, most ambulance drivers just brought people to the nearest hospital, which was Presbyterian Hospital. Um, which was pretty full up and not really prepared to, uh, to, to handle a lot of people. They got a hundred and twenty victims. While, uh, the Samaritan Hospital, which was better prepared, only received twenty seven.

• 1:36:03November Kelly?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:36:04Justin Roczniak?

  There were like eight more hospitals that got victims. Um, and a lot of them were like, just not prepared for it at all. You know, they, they only found out there was an emergency when, you know, there were, uh, fifty ambulances showed up with, you know, people with traumatic head injuries.

• 1:36:22November Kelly?

  It's like fifty Draculas have showed up in the ER.

• 1:36:25Justin Roczniak?

  Yes.

• 1:36:26November Kelly?

  Covered in fake blood and real blood.

• 1:36:28Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, they, Dracula.

• 1:36:30November Kelly?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:31Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:33Justin Roczniak?

  Then began, began the grim job of identifying the dead. Uh, the morgue was set up and they installed temporary rubber flooring. So as to prevent the friends and relatives of the deceased from slipping on the ice in the frozen pools of blood.

• 1:36:47November Kelly?

  Raising, raising hand. How many times do you think that happened before they put in the temporary rubber flooring?

• 1:36:54Justin Roczniak?

  Good question.

• 1:36:55November Kelly?

  Given how much of a shit show this has been, they've definitely, yeah, they've definitely hospitalized multiple family members, yeah.

• 1:37:02Justin Roczniak?

  I gotta say, I imagine all the emergency workers are constantly slipping and falling in this incident, yeah.

• 1:37:07Liam McAnderson?

  Exactly. I, I, I played Mario Kart. That's exactly how this went.

• 1:37:10Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. Can't, uh, you, you gotta have like the, the, the reverse Sam Boney come out and rough up the ice.

• 1:37:17Liam McAnderson?

  Human remains.

• 1:37:18Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:19November Kelly?

  Oh my god. What's Sam Boney backwards? Hold on. Uh, the, the Inomaz. Yeah.

• 1:37:26Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:27November Kelly?

  Fuckin', send one of those out.

• 1:37:29Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly. Um, now, the first, uh, the first people came in to, uh, identify the deceased around three o'clock in the morning. By seven thirty in the morning, there was actually a line at the door, uh, from the amount of people who managed to force their personal vehicles through the emergency vehicles.

• 1:37:45November Kelly?

  Oh my god.

• 1:37:46Justin Roczniak?

  And the tow trucks and, uh,

• 1:37:48November Kelly?

  At least there's like five hundred different chaplains and ministers and shit to try and comfort them.

• 1:37:53Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, everyone's, uh, you know, there's like, uh, there's like forty five hundred people there to give re- last rites.

• 1:38:01November Kelly?

  Yeah, it's like many dead, but like none of them went to hell.

• 1:38:04Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, they went to extra heaven. They got so many last rites.

• 1:38:10November Kelly?

  That's how it works, I'm pretty sure.

• 1:38:11Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, so many sacraments. I got like the

• 1:38:16November Kelly?

  The Catholicism bonus episode is coming.

• 1:38:18Justin Roczniak?

  The secret extra sacrament.

• 1:38:24Justin Roczniak?

  Now, five propane tanks were discovered in the wreckage belonging to the Midwest Gas Corporation. These were removed from the scene as evidence, but with caveats. We'll get to that in the next slide. By 4:00 PM the next day, all victims had been identified, save for two of them. All survivors had been removed from the building. Emergency workers had all left, save for a few state police guarding the site. By the way, there had been jurisdictional conflict this whole time between the Indianapolis Police and the state police as to who should be running this.

• 1:39:03Justin Roczniak?

  It was gradually handed over to the state police as the night wore on. In the end, 81 people were dead and over 400 were injured.

• 1:39:12November Kelly?

  Jesus.

• 1:39:14Justin Roczniak?

  And in the confusion, something strange had happened.

• 1:39:17November Kelly?

  Oh no. Did someone forget to do the S in S now? Like, did someone forget to do the search and search and rescue? And there's just still like guys under the thing?

• 1:39:28Justin Roczniak?

  No, someone was searching, but not for the victims.

• 1:39:32November Kelly?

  The piñata dog?

• 1:39:33Justin Roczniak?

  Several lawyers had managed to infiltrate the blast site mere minutes after it happened. I don't know how that phone call went.

• 1:39:42November Kelly?

  Orbital dropped in? Like, how the fuck?

• 1:39:46November Kelly?

  We need you to drive at like 120 miles an hour in the shoulder pass, like a giant lane full of bumper to bumper fire trucks and ambulances. Get in there and start suing people.

• 1:39:59Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, the first people on the scene, the lawyers.

• 1:40:02November Kelly?

  I'm like a legal first responder. I'm like a legal observer at a protest. I've got like a fluorescent green hat and I'm just there like serving people.

• 1:40:11Justin Roczniak?

  They're paralegals, yeah.

• 1:40:17Justin Roczniak?

  These lawyers come in, they clamber over the wreckage, they ignore the dead, the injured and the dying, and went straight for the propane tanks and removed crucial parts, the valves and the hoses and so on and so forth.

• 1:40:29November Kelly?

  Oh my gods.

• 1:40:31Justin Roczniak?

  They were stopped.

• 1:40:33November Kelly?

  I need, I need Intianna cops to learn how to set up a cordon ever, maybe like it's, it's, it's French for line.

• 1:40:43Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:47Justin Roczniak?

  They were stopped by the state police and they were ejected from the arena without the evidence that they tried to steal, but the damage had been done, you know?

• 1:40:54November Kelly?

  He's got like one loafer on a guy's head, the other one braced against the propane tank, trying to pull the hose off of it.

• 1:41:05Justin Roczniak?

  The evidence had been thoroughly and completely tampered with.

• 1:41:08November Kelly?

  Good grief, Jesus.

• 1:41:10Speaker 02

  So these lawyers, do we know, I might be about to shoot your Fox Ross, but like, do you know whose lawyers were these? Were these the, the sites lawyers?

• 1:41:17Justin Roczniak?

  Um, I am not sure. Um, I had difficulty, uh.

• 1:41:21November Kelly?

  It's mysterious gang of lawyers.

• 1:41:24Justin Roczniak?

  Well, they said.

• 1:41:26Speaker 02

  Like that.

• 1:41:26Justin Roczniak?

  It said they represented an Indianapolis law firm, which fairly obvious. I, I, I don't know who they were in the employ of. I didn't, I unfortunately never quite gleaned that information.

• 1:41:37November Kelly?

  Gresham ass.

• 1:41:38Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, like rogue state lawyers just popping out of nowhere, a SWAT team.

• 1:41:45Justin Roczniak?

  The police recovered the evidence. The tanks were sent to Purdue University for analysis. What do you know? The tanks had been stored next to a heat source. The gas inside expanded. The safety valve did its job and vented the excess gas. A vast quantity of propane built up in the commissary and exploded the box seats when it found an ignition source. The National Liquid Petroleum Gas Association attempted to dispute this by saying, well, what if it was a steam leak or a carbon dioxide leak?

• 1:42:17November Kelly?

  I mean, you don't really, that's, that's a kind of commitment to like evil that you don't see in as many industry concerns outside of the like, you know, oil and gas industry these days, like tobacco, uh, and like.

• 1:42:31Justin Roczniak?

  Ay, ay, ay, ay.

• 1:42:32November Kelly?

  Arms dealers, but like.

• 1:42:38November Kelly?

  In general, though, your average like corporate lobbyist for the thing that kills people accidentally won't go as hard as this until it's in court, but like in public to be like, yeah, you know, maybe it's just fucking swamp gas.

• 1:42:52Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:42:55Justin Roczniak?

  From like the letter they sent, it seemed like even they didn't really believe themselves, but you know, we have to send a letter.

• 1:43:02November Kelly?

  A bunch of like propane valves falling out of my pockets. It's like, yeah, this could have been anything, you know?

• 1:43:07Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. A grand jury was convened to assign blame. They indicted no less than seven individuals, the Indianapolis Fire Chief, the State Fire Marshal, three individuals from the, uh, the gas distributor, Discount Gas Corporation.

• 1:43:24November Kelly?

  Would not buy my gas from them.

• 1:43:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know what I'm amazed I'm doing business.

• 1:43:30Justin Roczniak?

  The general and concessions manager for the Coliseum were both indicted. Um, and everyone sort of through legal proceeding managed to shift the blame around adequately enough that they're all acquitted.

• 1:43:45November Kelly?

  Forget it, Jake. It's Indiana town.

• 1:43:47Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:48November Kelly?

  I, I did, hmm.

• 1:43:50Justin Roczniak?

  In particular, the manager of the Coliseum managed to argue that he had no idea he needed a permit for indoor storage of propane and that, hey, the propane had been stored there in full view of inspectors for over 10 years at this point. Come on.

• 1:44:05Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 1:44:09Speaker 02

  Good grief.

• 1:44:09Justin Roczniak?

  So ultimately, new procedures were put into place to ensure propane was not stored indoors at the arena. The Coliseum would be regularly inspected by the fire department going forward. There were about $4.6 million in settlements from the gas company, about $70 million in insurance claims overall. Um, and the Coliseum, well, they managed to reopen it in only six weeks.

• 1:44:34November Kelly?

  Jesus. I mean, I guess you just pour some more concrete, you know, like hose it down, but like.

• 1:44:39Justin Roczniak?

  They just had this area roped off.

• 1:44:41November Kelly?

  Oh. Put a top over it. Jesus. It looks like the fucking Furibunker in there, like.

• 1:44:51Justin Roczniak?

  They fully repaired it in only a few months. Holiday on Ice returned the following year despite

• 1:44:57Liam McAnderson?

  Oh, thank God. Return to normalcy, baby.

• 1:44:59Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, despite fears that people would be afraid to go to the performance. No, they sold out the arena.

• 1:45:05Liam McAnderson?

  Yep, yep, that tracks.

• 1:45:07November Kelly?

  Indiana Strong.

• 1:45:08Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, not too much later than that, the Beatles played the Coliseum.

• 1:45:12November Kelly?

  Indiana Weird.

• 1:45:14Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, as a result of the, as a result of the explosion, the Indianapolis Capitals hockey team moved to Cincinnati.

• 1:45:22November Kelly?

  This is, this is a really grave sort of like consequence of this, you know?

• 1:45:27Justin Roczniak?

  Yes, exactly. But, uh, this is the worst thing to happen at, well, this is the worst disaster in Indiana history, but there would never be another major fatal, uh, major incident at the Indianapolis State Fair, um, until an inadequately secured stage collapsed in 2011 in a thunderstorm and killed a lot of people in the audience and also a stagehand.

• 1:45:49Speaker 02

  Well, I remember, was this a Beyonce gig?

• 1:45:51Liam McAnderson?

  No.

• 1:45:52Justin Roczniak?

  No, this was, this was, uh, country music then.

• 1:45:54Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:55Speaker 02

  Shiverland, yeah. Okay. Oh, I, I do remember there being a stage collapse. Yeah, good grief. They're not good.

• 1:46:02Justin Roczniak?

  Hmm, yeah.

• 1:46:03Speaker 02

  So we learned a lot then. Uh, yeah.

• 1:46:05Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, lots of, lots of structural issues at the Indiana State Fair.

• 1:46:10November Kelly?

  Those columns are meant to be vertical and instead they're all the way over and not attached anymore. They've invented a new style of column, you know, as Ionic, Doric, uh, Corinthian, American, and whatever this is.

• 1:46:21Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, this is, this is like, uh, Vila Le Duke was always, you know, wanted to experiment with, uh, angled columns. So, you know.

• 1:46:30Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 1:46:31Justin Roczniak?

  But yeah, that is the story of the Indiana State Fair explosion of 1963 or State Fair Coliseum. There wasn't that State Fair.

• 1:46:41November Kelly?

  Horrifying. Thank you.

• 1:46:42Speaker 02

  I, yeah, ooh, I did, ooh, grimy.

• 1:46:45Justin Roczniak?

  What did we learn?

• 1:46:46Speaker 02

  Put down some mats before you have your moron ice.

• 1:46:51Liam McAnderson?

  Corned off shit.

• 1:46:52Speaker 02

  That's true. Yeah, yeah. I would say. Don't store stuff in the void. Fuck the Salvation Army.

• 1:46:59Liam McAnderson?

  Yeah, for a different reason than we thought going in.

• 1:47:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:47:03Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah. My main lesson is do not store propane indoors.

• 1:47:08Speaker 02

  Do not store propane. I'm just writing it down.

• 1:47:13Liam McAnderson?

  This may be an actionable edit there, bud.

• 1:47:15Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:19Justin Roczniak?

  Always store propane in a well-ventilated space.

• 1:47:22Speaker 02

  Away from popcorn maker.

• 1:47:24Justin Roczniak?

  Oh, yeah. Don't store it next to the popcorn maker.

• 1:47:26Speaker 02

  Or the debts. Understood. Okay, yep, good, good. Well, that was absolutely horrifying. Yeah, crikey. I suppose we have a segment on this podcast.

• 1:47:38Justin Roczniak?

  Called Safety Third.

• 1:47:44Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:47:45Justin Roczniak?

  Dear, well, there is your problem hosts and also guests who are present.

• 1:47:50Speaker 02

  Uh, wrong.

• 1:47:51Justin Roczniak?

  Nope, no, no, they're not. While not as life or death as some of the submissions to Safety Third, I hope these two brief anecdotes illuminate the disaster of so-called small business that Americans claim to love so much.

• 1:48:02Speaker 02

  Uh huh. For instance, you appear to have some kind of Rat King of dogs here.

• 1:48:06Justin Roczniak?

  I was about to say, it took me a while when I saw this picture. Is this two dogs or just one really fucked up dog?

• 1:48:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, where's the ass? What's going on? I, I, I mean, I'm already happy because I can see dogs, but, but also where's the ass? Yeah, I'm confused.

• 1:48:21Justin Roczniak?

  Sort of a biblically accurate dog.

• 1:48:24Speaker 02

  Dog king?

• 1:48:25Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:28Justin Roczniak?

  I previously worked as an environmental consultant, creating reports assessing the environmental risk of a property during a sale.

• 1:48:35Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 1:48:36Justin Roczniak?

  In October of 2020, I traveled alone to a fairly remote, small factory in Michigan, which did plastic injection molding.

• 1:48:44Speaker 02

  Uh, sounds like the, the opening to an extremely well-reviewed narrative indie game.

• 1:48:51Speaker 02

  But matched the picture on the, on the, on the right perfectly, yeah.

• 1:48:56Justin Roczniak?

  They were housing old rich horrors there. Very fluffy ones.

• 1:49:04Justin Roczniak?

  Well, not as intensive a process as other manufacturing. This process does involve the use of huge, complex machines, applying 8,000 PSI to make plastic parts from pellets. Now, my first red flag was a Trump flag. Actually, it was strung across the front of the factory at least six feet by 10 feet in size. I was expecting a typical light manufacturing facility, but you can imagine my surprise when the husband and wife owners led me through rooms full of ugly furniture to their bedroom where a Trump rally was playing on television.

• 1:49:38Speaker 02

  To the bedroom? To fuck them?

• 1:49:43Justin Roczniak?

  There's a lot of, there's a lot of problems here. That is one of them, but also, yes, they lived in the factory, which was a converted shop school.

• 1:49:51Speaker 02

  There's a lot going on here already.

• 1:49:54November Kelly?

  The median American voter somehow.

• 1:49:58Justin Roczniak?

  Venturing outside, I discovered they had four dogs, not mean guard dogs, but some big fluffy ones and tiny yappers.

• 1:50:06Speaker 02

  There's definitely, dogging is something, there's, there's, there are things going on here. Are the dogs a metaphor?

• 1:50:13November Kelly?

  Yeah, it's like Silent Hill. The dog is a metaphor for your kind of like loss of connection, you know?

• 1:50:18Justin Roczniak?

  They then proceeded to let all four dogs run around the active production floor, where the giant and very old machines were operating, including 25 or more open drip pans of hydraulic oil.

• 1:50:31Speaker 02

  Leave the dogs alone. I'm not, no, no.

• 1:50:35Justin Roczniak?

  Probably should not allow dogs in that space.

• 1:50:37Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:50:38Liam McAnderson?

  People are fucking stupid, man. Yeah, keep going.

• 1:50:41Justin Roczniak?

  There are around 30 55 gallon drums with random chemicals labeled on the side. And I asked for the perps of all of these chemicals, and he stated he bought them all at auction, unless they were all mislabeled.

• 1:50:53November Kelly?

  I went down to the chemicals auction and I bought some drums, kind of at random.

• 1:50:58Justin Roczniak?

  Bought some random drums. I thought they were cool.

• 1:51:00Liam McAnderson?

  Feels like a money laundering operation for.

• 1:51:06November Kelly?

  Every, every time I try to understand Trump's people, I learn some, something like this and it just slips further from my grasp again.

• 1:51:14Justin Roczniak?

  I would probably go down to the chemicals auction and buy some chemicals, though. That sounds fun.

• 1:51:19Liam McAnderson?

  Alright, man.

• 1:51:20November Kelly?

  Justin, who did you vote for?

• 1:51:21Speaker 02

  The basement, it's the basement, Nuke, yeah.

• 1:51:23Justin Roczniak?

  I, I voted for a woman who lost.

• 1:51:25Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:51:26Justin Roczniak?

  Same thing I do every election.

• 1:51:29Speaker 02

  Jill Stein.

• 1:51:30Justin Roczniak?

  We don't talk about that.

• 1:51:35Justin Roczniak?

  In fact, there were huge amounts of random equipment he had bought at Oxygen with no discernible purpose.

• 1:51:41Speaker 02

  Oh Liam, you are absolutely on the money with the money laundering, 100%, that's what's going on.

• 1:51:45November Kelly?

  Money laundering slash hoarding.

• 1:51:47Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I wonder how those dogs are doing now.

• 1:51:50Liam McAnderson?

  Bad.

• 1:51:50Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:51:51Liam McAnderson?

  Hmm. Keep it moving, I don't want to think about the dogs too hard.

• 1:51:54Justin Roczniak?

  The second small business disaster I inspected involved a car dealership with a large auto repair shop.

• 1:52:00November Kelly?

  He went by the name of John Taliban.

• 1:52:04Justin Roczniak?

  Auto repairs typically pump their drains or oil-water, uh, auto repair places typically pump their drains or oil-water separators, I'm gonna say that's what that's supposed to read, uh, regularly, as a lot of used oils flowed to the floor drains in the repair bay. Most I have been to have done this cleaning annually, if not more frequently. The manager I was interrogating seemed bewildered when I asked about the frequency of cleaning. It had not been done since he started in 1997, which was the year I was born.

• 1:52:36November Kelly?

  Oh. It's your twin, the oil is your twin, it's the same age as you.

• 1:52:41Justin Roczniak?

  Furthermore, the new and used oil tanks were in one room I refused to step in as the leaking oil was several inches deep, uselessly covered with rags and cardboard.

• 1:52:52Speaker 02

  Are they trying to create a conflagration, like, oh, we just toss the flammable stuff in that room?

• 1:52:58Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I just throw some leaking propane in there too.

• 1:53:00November Kelly?

  It's the fire room, yeah.

• 1:53:02Justin Roczniak?

  Yeah, I just put this, uh, over here with the rest of the fire.

• 1:53:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:08Justin Roczniak?

  The oil leak was so bad that it was seeping through the cinder block walls into the adjoining rooms.

• 1:53:14Speaker 02

  Oh god, what the fuck?

• 1:53:16Justin Roczniak?

  While I was appalled with what I saw, as someone who cares even a little about the environment, there's no guarantee they have to do anything to fix or clean this.

• 1:53:24November Kelly?

  Especially not now.

• 1:53:25Justin Roczniak?

  The facility had also never bothered to clean up the leaks from the historic underground storage tanks, which is probably still polluting the groundwater to this day.

• 1:53:33November Kelly?

  Uh huh.

• 1:53:34Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:53:36Justin Roczniak?

  Now I work with the ongoing engineering disaster that is NEPA, the National Environmental Protection Act, I believe is what that is. But I am glad to have seen many wild and interesting things in America's backrooms at this job. See photo two.

• 1:53:51November Kelly?

  Yeah, no kidding.

• 1:53:52Speaker 02

  That's a backroom. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:53:54Justin Roczniak?

  I've been here since the first episode and I appreciate you all very much from Charlotte.

• 1:53:59November Kelly?

  Thank you, Charlotte.

• 1:54:00Justin Roczniak?

  Thank you, Charlotte.

• 1:54:01Speaker 02

  Thanks, Charlotte. I, oh, no, I partly finds the idea of the flammable stuff room humorous, but also I suspect that building is no longer as intact as it was when that was created.

• 1:54:13November Kelly?

  We sought these rooms by flammability, like, by Estaloas.

• 1:54:19Speaker 02

  Jesus.

• 1:54:20Justin Roczniak?

  Well, that was safety third.

• 1:54:25Justin Roczniak?

  Our next episode will be on Chernobyl. Does anyone have any commercials before we go?

• 1:54:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, my book launched last night and I got, yeah, so it's on sale. Go buy the book. How the Rails Will Fix the Future.

• 1:54:39November Kelly?

  Buy the book.

• 1:54:40Justin Roczniak?

  Buy the tickets to our live shows.

• 1:54:42Speaker 02

  Yes, Philly, particularly Philly. Buy the Philly tickets.

• 1:54:45November Kelly?

  Fill more seats.

• 1:54:47Justin Roczniak?

  Fill more seats, yes.

• 1:54:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:50Justin Roczniak?

  Well, almost two hours on the dot. All right. That was a podcast.

• 1:54:54November Kelly?

  Bye, everybody.

• 1:54:55Justin Roczniak?

  Bye. Night, everyone.

• 1:54:57Speaker 02

  Bye.

• 1:54:58November Kelly?

  Really good, guys.