The Pentagon's UFO Debunker Is Lying. We Can Prove It.

The government is releasing more UAP records — and the contradictions are getting harder to ignore. Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp examine new public claims from former AARO director Sean Kirkpatrick and ask a basic question: where is the paper trail? If congressional staffers pressured AARO to funnel millions of dollars toward UFO-related organizations, there should be records. If conversations were held with CIA and Lockheed Martin about alleged recovered materials, those records should exist too. Meanwhile, PURSUE Release 7 has started putting AAWSAP material into the official government archive, including documents tied to the Tic Tac investigation and Skinwalker Ranch. Jeremy and George look at what has finally been released, what remains missing, and how the public may be able to test whether PURSUE is actually serious about transparency. They also clarify David Grusch’s recent claim that he viewed footage of an alleged crash retrieval involving non-human bodies — and why Jeremy says Grusch viewed that material while acting in an official government capacity. The next step is simple. Get the witnesses, the skeptics and the gatekeepers in the same room — and put them under oath. GOT A TIP? Leave a message for us at +1 (323) 484-4738 Reach out to us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ••• MERCH : https://Weaponized-Shop. Fourthwall.com MAIN : https://YouTube.com/@JeremyCorbell CLIPS : https://YouTube.com/@WEAPONIZEDclips MORE : https://WeaponizedPodcast.com ••• Watch SLEEPING DOG movie : https://SleepingDogMovie.com ••• Watch Corbell's six-part UFO docuseries titled UFO REVOLUTION on TUBI here : ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tubitv.com/series/300002259/tmz-presents-ufo-revolution/season-2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Watch Knapp’s six-part UFO docuseries titled INVESTIGATION ALIEN on NETFLIX here : ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://netflix.com/title/81674441⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ••• You can now watch all of Corbell's movies for free on YouTube here : BOB LAZAR : AREA 51 & FLYING SAUCERS ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/sZaE5rIavVA⁠⁠⁠⁠ HUNT FOR THE SKINWALKER ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/TczkJ6UAQ8A⁠⁠⁠⁠ PATIENT SEVENTEEN ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/gDVX0kRqXxE⁠⁠⁠⁠ ••• For breaking news, follow Corbell & Knapp on all social media. Extras and bonuses from the episode can be found at https://WeaponizedPodcast.com ••• WEAPONIZED is produced by Michael Lazovsky https://MichaelLazovsky.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:45George Knapp?

  Ryder had said, "Yeah, we had at least one point, we had 12 of these discs, of these alien vehicles." Kirkpatrick says, among other things, he looked into this. He reached out to somebody at Lockheed, who's in charge of their technology division. That person said, "Oh, no, this is not true." James Ryder died in 2018. He retired from Lockheed in 2011. He was not around to tell this new guy, the new tech guy, about any of this stuff. It was very hush-hush.

• 1:15Jeremy Corbell?

  It's just complete nonsense, and he has certain media outlets and people, journalists, that he will speak through. And I think our audience can go, "Look at that. Who has direct quotes from Kirkpatrick consistently? There's a few of them. Go take a look. Are they trustworthy journalists? Or are they just mouthpieces and puppets for Kirkpatrick, who, by the way, is a mouthpiece for someone else? And if you find the hardware, you're gonna ask about the pilots. And there's probably programs that have studied the pilots, the biologics.

• 1:43George Knapp?

  Not just UFOs, but beings, creatures that essentially don't exist, should not be seen.

• 1:48Jeremy Corbell?

  No, David Grusch is not just going on Rogan and saying wild shit. Like, it was just, I shouldn't be seeing it. That's the response that I get from people who claim, and I believe them, that they've seen footage of beings.

• 2:06George Knapp?

  This is Weaponized. I'm George Knapp here in Las Vegas, joined by my friend and colleague Jeremy Corbell in Points Unknown. Jeremy, you know, it used to be you could kind of keep up with UFO, UAP news, read a MUFON journal once a month, and you're there. You can't keep up with it anymore. This has been a pretty busy week, correct?

• 2:25Jeremy Corbell?

  Actually, I can keep up with it now. I have an assistant.

• 2:29George Knapp?

  I see.

• 2:30Jeremy Corbell?

  And I've been developing an artificial intelligence for a while. And I absolutely have been able to look at 60,000 emails that were not sensitive, that were sent to us. And I've been calling people back for two weeks. Unbelievable. So I am able now to keep up with some of it. But yeah, it's, there is so much going on in the UAP world. And a lot of it is nonsense. But it's hard to cut through that. And you've always said that one of the easiest tactics by these agencies that want to shape the emerging UAP narrative is to flood the zone. And that's what we're seeing, right?

• 3:07George Knapp?

  There's a good one today. I mean, I basically blew Cheerios out my nose when I read this this morning. It's from good old buddy Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, who for about a week and a half was the head of Arrow. He's been out of that job for, I don't know, three years now, but still acts as if he is the spokesperson for Arrow. He is the definitive arbitrator of all facts related to Arrow and is the designated debunker for the US government. Whatever it is, whatever claim is made, he's the guy that comes to the rescue and dismisses the whole thing. And of course, his power is his personal credibility, which, as we all know,

• 3:47George Knapp?

  it's the standard by which we judge these things, because he would never tell a lie. For example, him saying that he was never involved with this UFO stuff until he worked for Arrow. That's true, right? No. No. Or him saying that he never sat in on a meeting with Brandon Fugel and talked about Skinwalker Ranch. That's gotta be true, right? Of course, proven to be false. Now he says he's taken on Jay Stratton, Robert Bigelow, Colin Kelleher, Hal Puthoff, Eric Davis, and others who have shared the story of negotiations that went on back during the OSAP program, negotiations with James Ryder, the vice president of Lockheed,

• 4:32George Knapp?

  to exchange certain materials. We've all heard the stories over the years about Lockheed being one of the places where the goodies were stashed. And it makes a lot of sense. They're a trusted contractor. They're, you know, home of the skunk works. If you had a crashed flying saucer and you wanted to reverse engineer it, that'd be one of the places you'd put it. It makes a lot of sense. Well, we know, and I testified under oath to this back in 2025, that James Ryder came clean with Robert Bigelow and with a couple of other people about this material that Lockheed still had. As I understand it, they had bits and pieces that were left over.

• 5:14George Knapp?

  Most of what they had in safekeeping for the CIA had been returned to CIA, where it went, they didn't know. But they still had some stuff that CIA had sort of forgotten about, and they were gonna transfer it to the DIA, to OSAP, to Bigelow Aerospace, which had built a special facility to receive that material. The negotiations were underway. A deal was struck. Robert Bigelow had made a deal with Lockheed that he was gonna do something for them that they could not do for themselves. And in exchange, he would get this material. They'd do their own reverse engineering, do their own analysis of that material. That deal was reached. And there were multiple meetings between Bigelow and Ryder and other people who worked for Bigelow and Ryder.

• 5:58George Knapp?

  And now Jay Stratton, in his new book, he says he too was in on those negotiations and had multiple conversations that Ryder had said, "Yeah, we had at least one point, we had 12 of these discs, of these alien vehicles that we were looking at, that we were storing and analyzing." Fantastic story. Multiple different independent witnesses said it's all true. "To the rescue" comes Sean Kirkpatrick in this article that I read this morning. "Oh, no, none of that stuff's true. I looked into all that stuff. None of it's true." He says, among other things, that a Senate staffer, unnamed, someone who worked for, I don't know if this is a Senate, but it's a legislative staffer, had called him up

• 6:40George Knapp?

  and told him, while he was at Arrow, to start funneling millions of dollars to these UFO organizations, private companies, who were going to use it to exploit certain technology. Now, if Sean Kirkpatrick says it, it's gotta be true, right? I mean, because, you know, Arrow had millions of dollars in its budget, correct? Of course not. Arrow never had millions of dollars in its budget. Arrow certainly did not have millions of dollars that it could ever assume to be transferred to somebody else on the order of an unnamed legislative staffer. It is preposterous. Kirkpatrick says, among other things, he looked into this. He supposedly reached out to the CIA, to the person who was named,

• 7:24George Knapp?

  named, for example, in testimony that I mentioned a couple of minutes ago in 2025, the guy who stopped the deal happening between Lockheed and Bigelow. "Oh, yeah, reach out to him." "No, no, that never happened." He reached out to somebody at Lockheed, who's in charge of their technology division. That person said, "Oh, no, this is not true." James Ryder died in 2018. He retired from Lockheed in 2011. He was not around to tell this new guy, the new tech guy, about any of this stuff. It was very hush-hush. So the new guy says, "It didn't happen. Therefore, it didn't happen." I would say this. As thorough an investigator, as honest a person as Sean Kirkpatrick is,

• 8:09George Knapp?

  I would think that there would be records, there'd be a paper trail. For example, when a legislative staffer tells him, "Start funneling millions of dollars to these individuals and these companies", you'd think there'd be a paper trail. I would want to tell my superior officers at the Pentagon, "Hey, this is underway. There should be a memo." If there are calls to CIA, you'd think there'd be phone records. If there are meetings with and conversations with Vice President at Lockheed, there should be travel records, there should be phone records, there should be a paper trail of all that stuff. I would hope that Sean Kirkpatrick can produce all that stuff. And if he can't produce it, I hope that Congress, since he still thinks he's the head of Arrow,

• 8:52George Knapp?

  will call him back in and put him under oath and start asking about this stuff and ask him to prove it. Do you think that's gonna happen? Is that likely?

• 9:01Jeremy Corbell?

  Let me respond to some of your thoughts. First of all, so everybody else, all these actual military patriots and heroes...

• 9:13Jeremy Corbell?

  And intelligence individuals who have come forward about UAP, they're all liars, according to Kirkpatrick, but he's the only one telling the truth. However, you have already demonstrated lies that we found from Dr. Kirkpatrick. So he is an untrustworthy broker of information, straight up. So here we do, here we are, and we have a guy, Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, who has verifiably lied to the American public. Now, what is motivating that? You know, I do have a hunch about that. But it is absolutely ridiculous and it's harmful to the credibility of journalism and truth and trust.

• 9:56Jeremy Corbell?

  When he goes and tries to counter every single person that comes out to talk about UAP. It's a pattern that can't be ignored. And when someone gets caught in lies so many times, and then calling everybody else liar with his four fingers pointing back at wherever he's pointing. If you remember, George, the hearing was a Senate hearing. And I think Jill Lebran was running it and Dr. Kirkpatrick was there. It was not a hearing where they asked hard questions. It was this little love fest, oh, do you need more funding? It was so egregious that they thought the American public was so stupid. And so I remember that, and that always struck me. And I don't want to vilify any individual, but look, if your actions are very clear

• 10:41Jeremy Corbell?

  and you continue to do them without consequence. Yeah, where are the records for all these things that Kirkpatrick has been claiming as a known liar? Now, the thing you said about the staffer, I know exactly that situation. It is absolute bullshit. It is not true. I would love, you know, please bring those intelligence reports that he must have sent up the chain. Who said that? You know, what is their name? And what exactly was said? Was it a recorded call? So again, it's just complete nonsense. And he has certain media outlets and people, journalists, that he will speak through. And I think our audience can go look at that. Who has direct quotes from Kirkpatrick consistently? There's a few of them. Go take a look. Are they trustworthy journalists?

• 11:25Jeremy Corbell?

  Or are they just mouthpieces and puppets for Kirkpatrick? Who, by the way, is a mouthpiece for someone else? Last thing, isn't the proof in how the money is spent? You say, George, like follow the money. You've told me that before, right? That's something that we've talked about is follow the money. It's very simple. It's an old adage or whatever. Do you think they would build? It was reported as a $10 million facility at Pax River to house non-human technology. That facility was was built, apparently, or at least they were planning on doing that. Would you do that? Would you spend that money internally if there was nothing to transfer?

• 12:06Jeremy Corbell?

  Now, we do know somebody who actually went to investigate, and that would be Rep Burleson. He has specifically said that he has investigated facilities and on our show, even, you know, we talked about Pax, so I'm not breaking any rules here. But I mean, you know, I think a quote, a comment he said to me was, the door would have been worth 10 million. That place was fascinating. So I don't think I'm speaking out of school here. This is something that I think is pretty public, that he had seen at least a facility. So would you spend all that money if you were not transferring something from Lockheed? And George, you know better than anybody, because you were there at an embryonic stage of when those deals were being made between Lockheed and OSAP.

• 12:51Jeremy Corbell?

  All roads lead back to you and Harry Reid and Bob Lazar and talking about UFOs. So your opinion on this, George, is a informed opinion compared to other people, you know, which is, does Lockheed have material to the best of your knowledge? And were they going to transfer it to OSAP? And did Glenn Gaffney, head of science and technology at CIA, like you testified to, block it to the best of your knowledge? I want to hear your answers to that because you have an informed opinion.

• 13:21George Knapp?

  Yeah, the answer is yes. They had a deal. It was all worked out. There were multiple meetings. I know the people who were in those meetings. I wasn't, but I was aware of them back then. I'm aware of them now. We have public testimony. People have come forward. Jay Stratton is the latest. And apparently, according to his book, he met with with the Vice President of Lockheed multiple times. And and was facilitating the same kind of transfer. And then it was stopped. That happened. What did not happen is Sean Kirkpatrick being asked to funnel millions of dollars to these other individuals and companies. He didn't have millions of dollars. Arrow doesn't have millions of dollars.

• 14:03George Knapp?

  And if they, if it had happened, good gosh, wouldn't you report that up the chain? Tell your boss that you're being leaned on by somebody in Congress to give millions of dollars to these crazy UFO people? There should be a paper trail. Let's see it. Lastly, I want to go into this thing about the unnamed staffer.

• 14:19Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah.

• 14:19George Knapp?

  We know who this staffer is.

• 14:21Jeremy Corbell?

  Yes.

• 14:21George Knapp?

  If we think we know who it is, if it's not completely made up. That there is a staffer who was in contact with Sean Kirkpatrick back in those days. And woe to him for standing up to the lies. I'm not sure how far we can go in discussing that, but he paid a price for it. He's still paying a price for it. For the kinds of things that, yeah.

• 14:44Jeremy Corbell?

  No, go ahead.

• 14:45George Knapp?

  No, I don't want to go any further. You, you should probably tell this.

• 14:48Jeremy Corbell?

  I'm navigating.

• 14:51Speaker 00

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• 16:04Speaker 04

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• 16:06Speaker 05

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• 16:08Speaker 06

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• 16:13Speaker 06

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• 16:15Speaker 05

  The Hunger Games: Sunrise on the Weeping, November 20th, rated PG-13.

• 16:19Jeremy Corbell?

  This, you know, we may be correct, and I will find out within 24 hours if we're correct. But I remember one time we went into a skiff. And I know that the the few staffers, and when we say staffer, we mean people who are like deeply involved. This is not like somebody who's just like hired for, you know, a week. People that are deeply involved with this issue with Senate. And there was a absolute distrust of Kirkpatrick because they caught him in lies, like internally, within the intelligence community, caught him in lies. So this is such a fabricated story. I want to hold Kirkpatrick accountable for the things.

• 17:04Jeremy Corbell?

  If he publicly said this, I haven't read what you said. I'm immediately filing FOIA's and trying to get the transcripts of however that accusation was generated, because I do believe I know who that was, you know, who's referenced there. And it is so egregious that that accusation or lie that I want to defend people that you and I know are on the level. And yes, the person we're talking about has paid a price and continues. And in fact, needed to negotiate a way to not be leaned on and doesn't really know what that person, I'll say, was.

• 17:46Jeremy Corbell?

  What that person agreed to, you know, to stop being leaned on. This is criminal. At this point, I would call the DOJ and I would have them investigate that statement by Kirkpatrick to see if if he made it up and can't substantiate it, then there should be consequences.

• 18:07George Knapp?

  Yeah, I mean, these are allegations. He's making allegations of crimes that, you know, leaning on him, head of an agency, to funnel millions of dollars secretly under the table to some pro UFO people. That sounds like a crime to me. And I would hope that Representative Luna, Burchett, Burleson, some of their colleagues on the Democratic side would call him in. If it can't be a public hearing, have it a closed door hearing, but under oath, and ask him to prove these allegations because they are outrageous. And for as trustworthy a guy like him, maybe he could bring along the now two-year late Arrow report, the second Arrow report that they're supposed to produce. Where the hell is it? Anyway, like I said, it took me an hour to clean the Cheerios out of my nose this morning, but.

• 18:51Jeremy Corbell?

  You eat Cheerios for breakfast? I, like, I know you for like a super long time. I don't think you eat breakfast unless we go to the, you know, the place we get the bear thing. I mean, you Cheerios?

• 19:05George Knapp?

  Yeah, pumpkin spice Cheerios. It's a special seasonal thing. It's only going to last a couple of weeks, so, you know.

• 19:11Jeremy Corbell?

  You're being serious? Like, I gotta try these? Okay, so hold on, back to Dr. K. This is not a reflection on Arrow. Dr. K has gone above, Dr. Kirkpatrick has gone above and beyond to be a puppet mouthpiece for, you know, legacy interest, in my opinion. And Arrow itself, I mean, they seem to have a kumbaya going on with Congress, and I believe that is true. So, you know, Luna, if you remember her public statements about Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, she has no love for them. And she is a go-getter. If she decides we need to have him accountable, isn't basically she can like audit his ass?

• 19:53Jeremy Corbell?

  I think that she should go after him, make him accountable, clarify what he's talking about, these alleged crimes. And and if he created a situation where he's lying about that and he doesn't have the evidence and he's falsifying these accusations, which are typically with him, character assassination attempts, like he did with Grusch and all the witnesses that have come forward, that I think she should hold him accountable. And I bet you Rep Luna will do that. So we should put that on her radar. And additionally, there's a pattern. And most people are not going to recognize this pattern, but you and I will, George. There was an attempt by ODNI, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence,

• 20:35Jeremy Corbell?

  when Tulsi Gabbard was in control, and they were looking into the UFO thing. Again, we went and did meetings in DC about that, and we tried to help and connected a lot of willing participants to bring this forward. And we know for a fact that they tried to character assassinate Matthew Brown, Dylan Borland, Luella Zondo, Jay Stroud, Eric Davis, you just name it. If you've raised your head above the parapet, and they've never published their report through, for example, ICIG would be interesting, but they've never, ODNI never published their report. Oh, because if they do, I'm pretty sure that journalists like you and I have documented really clearly what was actually said. So I see a pattern.

• 21:19Jeremy Corbell?

  The pattern is that they want to dismiss people through Dr. Kirkpatrick, who's not even part of Arrow anymore, and then through a report which they never put public, probably smarter than not to do that, through ODNI, but I'd love to read that report, and Congress hasn't read it. I talked with numerous representatives of Congress, and they have never actually read ODNI's report. And, and I said, if it comes out, let me know, because I probably have evidence, you know, to look at what they said. So that's the pattern, is ODNI, not under Tulsi, I think she was doing the right job with UAP, but I think the soldiers that were put in under her name through the dig, I think had an agenda with UAP.

• 22:03Jeremy Corbell?

  I know had an agenda with UAP. So I see the pattern with Kirkpatrick and ODNI, and trying to influence Congress, which should be illegal, if it's not technically illegal.

• 22:14George Knapp?

  Yeah, just, you know, I, my sense is, I don't, I don't interact with Arrow a lot, maybe you do these days, but my sense is that they're finally making progress, they're, they're on the straight and, and narrow, they're trying to do the job that they were assigned to do. They've finally separated themselves from the stench of Sean Kirkpatrick, and now he comes back in and the cloud is over Arrow again. I'm sure that there are people at that organization that don't appreciate him acting like their spokesperson and, and putting a cloud of suspicion over everything that they do.

• 22:47Jeremy Corbell?

  I mean, what, what does Kozlovsky feel about the public statements that Kirkpatrick is saying, you know, because people associate Kirkpatrick with Arrow. I have never interviewed Kozlovsky. By all accounts, everybody we know, he is a straight up, awesome dude, running Arrow, but he's in, you know, Project Blue Box, you know, there, he can't even part his hair, our buddy James Fox said when he talked with him, without authority, but I would love to hear and, and do an interview with Dr. Kozlovsky and ask him, you know, what do these statements that Sean Kirkpatrick is putting out there, how, you know, it reflects on Arrow, how do you feel about it? I think the Arrow people are now trying to do good work, because that's the mandate.

• 23:30George Knapp?

  Pursue, seventh drop of information, and I know the knee jerk reaction is, nothing burger, nothing here, I'm not going to read it, this is not what I want to see, I want the bodies and the craft and nothing else, neener, neener, neener, I'm not going to listen to anything else. I thought this was some pretty good stuff in this drop. No videos, interesting, interestingly, no videos, but they did drop some interesting stuff, and some of it is material that we know really well. The OSAP file, so it was just, you know, it hasn't been that long, a matter of weeks, since we were discussing the fact that they still can't find the OSAP files. We know that Dr. Jim Lekatsky, who was head of that program, filed those reports with DIA.

• 24:15George Knapp?

  We know all of that material, all of the deliverables were delivered, and they're in there somewhere. And he just speculated that maybe they'd been digitized and that the organization, because all the people who worked there then were gone, that they just couldn't find it. That is my sense of it. I don't think that DIA was hiding it, or pretending they couldn't find it. I think they really couldn't find it. They sent a letter to Robert Bigelow a couple of weeks ago, as we reported, and said, hey, we finally found this stuff, and we're going to start releasing it, and we'd like some help in redacting the names of, of both people with medical issues and some of the witnesses who specified that, okay, I'll talk to you, OSAP investigators, but you can't make this public. And now they've done it.

• 24:59George Knapp?

  I, I have to assume they used AI, like your systems, Jeremy, to redact the names out of some of these documents, but of the things that they released, a lot of it is, are documents that we have talked about, and some of that information had been reported by Dr. Lekatsky in the series of books that he wrote. There was a document about Tic Tac that was based on an analysis of Tic Tac, the Tic Tac incident and similar incidents, trying to look at it from an engineering perspective and a physics perspective of how this technology works, and, and to physically document things that it was shown to have done.

• 25:39George Knapp?

  We tried to get that report into the hands of Congress back in 2024, couldn't do it. Understandably, why we couldn't do it, and now it's out, and it's great. The Skinwalker document, so, you know, I've been, I've been talking about this stuff and what's in it for a long time. You and I have done news reports about it and, and episodes of Weaponized, and we're familiar with what was in there. Dr. Lekatsky, Dr. Colin Kelleher have shared with us the kinds of things that they were allowed to say, based on that document, allowed to say through the Docter process, they put it in their books, and have, and have done interviews with us and with others about it, and now it's out, and people can see it.

• 26:20George Knapp?

  And as far as I know, DIA did a good job of redacting the names, there aren't any names that weren't supposed to get out. And yes, some of those incidents are pretty outrageous, I mean, pretty crazy, but it is based on what the witnesses say. There is a map that we have talked about in public, call it a monster map, perfect for the, the time of year that we're recording this, right before Halloween, but these are witnesses who live near the ranch, they didn't work for DIA, they didn't work for Bigelow, they were people who just lived out there, they're ranchers and farmers and just regular folks who live out there, who were approached by investigators, and they were willing to tell those investigators what they had seen, not just UFOs, but beings, creatures that

• 27:04George Knapp?

  essentially don't exist, should not be seen.

• 27:08George Knapp?

  The accounts were so consistent that DIA investigators, OSAP people, were able to create a map, a trail map of where these things were seen, where, in which direction they were heading, and that was included in this report. And I think it's a fascinating little account that's now in the public, and we don't just have to describe it, people can see it for themselves, that's cool, right?

• 27:31Jeremy Corbell?

  It's very cool. I mean, to me, it's a very clear kind of call and response, which is so encouraging to me. And I've had other ways, I've pushed buttons on a call and response with Pursue, but this is very clear to me. You get this public news report out, you do the podcast with Bigelow, you talk about this, you know, approach by DIA, they finally, they found the OSAP files, they got to go through them, and then what? The next week, on that Friday, we get some OSAP files through Pursue. So whoever's, like, the big hunt is, who is choosing what to put out to Pursue? Like, we can give them file names, like all the videos, and, and they kind of, they're

• 28:14Jeremy Corbell?

  obligated to put them out because they saw they were coming out anyway, but you said something a couple of episodes ago, like, are they just pushing a shopping cart through agencies and people throwing into the shopping cart, like, different things? Who is choosing what goes out through Pursue? Does Kirkpatrick have a hand in it? Is Arrow consulted? That it, we have foiled to ask that question. Oh, we have 3,464 files before yours, all this BS. Simple question, who chooses what comes out through Pursue? Because they, obviously, they watch your reporting, because a lot of what we've put out, they end up doing the next week. So the question becomes, how did they get the OSAP stuff into the first, which is so

• 28:59Jeremy Corbell?

  great, they got OSAP stuff in, in the seventh drop.

• 29:03Jeremy Corbell?

  Next drop, are they going to do more? Are they expediting this? Can we influence it? You know, it's the call and response, George, that I'm very excited about, because if the public, for example, if a journalist puts out some IIR numbers, these intelligence reference numbers, you know, just put them out and be like, hey, will you look into this? It's UAP related, I hear, will that come out through Pursue? Well, I think you and I are about to do that. So what I'd like to do is test the Pursue process and see if they're being straightforward and legitimate, and the question is, who makes the decision? Last thing about that.

• 29:43Speaker 00

  In deepest jungle, Cartier's panther spies a wandering bird that circles the skies. A lovebird, lost and missing his mate, is far from his path in lonely state. Dry your tears, now there's a start. Follow my steps to heal your heart. Panther stalks through the leaves with silent grace. Through the power of scent, she finds the trace. Behold, two lovers reunite in the skies, a most precious thrill sparkling in their eyes. Together forever, they shine each day, bound by the beauty of Cartier.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  Real value shows up in reliability. You don't have to second guess like a set of Firestone all season tires. They're designed to deliver confidence inspiring wet weather traction and a quieter ride. No matter the road. Season after season. Firestone all season tires for durability. You can count on just like people count on you. Firestone. Always dependable. Since 1900.

• 30:58Jeremy Corbell?

  No, I'm gonna hold that. So that's my thought on a on pursue. I don't know, George. Keep pushing.

• 31:04George Knapp?

  Well, you know, I'm encouraged that they finally found the OSAP documents. Those ones that they have already put out, I think we're going to see more of them as time goes on because there are dozens of them that have not been made public and it's really good information. The complaints that we get, the normal ones, this is a nothing burger. I don't care. Show me the bodies. I understand that. And and there's nothing in the OSAP documents that is familiar to me where they declare these are ETs from the Pleiades and and that's what's responsible for this because they don't know. At least at the time the OSAP program was underway, they don't know what the ultimate source of this is. So they're not going to speculate.

• 31:45George Knapp?

  They don't put into reports. The reason that we have hitchhikers is XYZ. You know, it's very exotic and unusual and inexplicable phenomena. And the OSAP, DIA, all those guys, they don't assign a cause to it. They're just reporting what happened, what the witnesses saw, what the investigator saw. They don't draw a conclusion. So if you were waiting for a document that says it's aliens and it's poltergeists and and it's demons, that's that's not happening. It's not in there. And if it's true that you're not going to listen to anything more until you see a document that says it's ETs or it's interdimensionals, you're going to be waiting a long time. But I am encouraged by this. I mean, I've said

• 32:29George Knapp?

  it before, even though some of what is released for the pursue process is disappointing, you know, videos that are released, but all the metadata is stripped out on purpose. Somebody had to go to the trouble to do that. That was discouraging. And and some of these documents and incident reports that are put out, we know darn good and well, they have at least semi conclusions behind the scenes about whether it was a foreign drone or something like that, or something more exotic, something truly inexplicable. That information doesn't come out. But the process itself is good. I think it's good. I think the story is that this is underway and they are releasing a lot of information. And even though there

• 33:11George Knapp?

  are no conclusions in that, and even though some of it's been made public before, putting it out under the authority of the president, with the backing of the administration and various agencies that are saying, yeah, this is from our files, puts in it puts it in a different category. It's not just a UFO newsletter. It's not a podcaster saying it. It's coming out from official sources, and I think that's important. And it makes a difference who's releasing it and how they're releasing it.

• 33:40Jeremy Corbell?

  So there's a limit to that. And we should explain this to people. So OSAP would would not know when it first started, they would not know all of this stuff. They would know what doors to knock on. They would know they should go to Lockheed. They would know that there's probably programs that knew exactly about the beings and the occupants and the pilots and the theories on where they came from. But they wouldn't know that at the beginning, OSAP was investigating. That was kind of the big point. And what proves that is that famously, again, we're repeating stuff that we've said before and you've reported on, but people need to hear it again. They were trying to get special access program authorities

• 34:22Jeremy Corbell?

  for OSAP specifically for the transfer of the craft. That's that famous Harry Reid letter where everybody started conflating, even in, you know, popular movies these days. There was like a conflation of what ATIP and OSAP was. ATIP was just first mentioned in the Harry Reid letter asking for SAP so that OSAP could get access to where they knew the hardware was. And if you find the hardware, you're going to ask about the pilots. And there's probably programs that have studied the pilots, the biologics. Again, I keep saying, until they start talking about crash retrievals, reverse engineering, and the biologics, they're going to be behind the eight ball. Last warning. So so that's, you know, that's the deal that

• 35:05Jeremy Corbell?

  they didn't know. OSAP didn't know, but they wanted to find out. They knew where to look. And then they got denied access by, you know, CIA, Science and Technology at the time specifically Glenn Gaffney, but through an emissary of his, I guess, technically is, is who made that. So what we could do, George, is we could ask for the transfer agreements. There's got to be paperwork to OSAP. There's got to be emails, memos, you know, they have to negotiate what a transfer would look like from Lockheed Martin to OSAP to build the facility and house it. And that would be proof positive that this was was going on. And and there's got to be documentation who shut it down. Science and Technology, Glenn Gaffney, as you said

• 35:48Jeremy Corbell?

  in Congress. So I think there's a path forward here to prove that OSAP identified where some of the craft were, and they were trying to get them. And it should all be documented because our government is so bureaucratic, they're going to have documentation of everything. That kind of leads me, unless you want to go somewhere to David Grusch's statements about the video. I want to clarify a few things to people unless we want to continue on this.

• 36:13George Knapp?

  Go ahead. You know, I'll just put it this way. I have never seen any of that documentation that you're discussing. I know that there were communications back and forth. Maybe there's phone records that would show that there were conversations back and forth. But I never saw and I'm unaware of any memos that spell out that deal. They were at the point where they reached an agreement. Robert Bigelow, a month ago, said, in essence, he created a need for him to know. He carved out a way that gave him a need to know that would have been the basis for that special access program that they were trying to create. Whether or not that's been put down in writing, I don't know. I've never seen it. I've never

• 36:57George Knapp?

  heard anybody discuss it. But yeah, it's worth the try to see if it if it could turn up for sure.

• 37:02Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah, my point is that this is not going to be a handshake deal when so much money is at stake, especially with a build out, whether it be in Vegas or PAX. The government is so bureaucratic, which it should be. It documents everything. Our government documents everything. And this would not be a handshake deal. So I think

• 37:24George Knapp?

  Yeah, I'm with you. I think it should have been codified in essence in writing in some way, at least the even the initial discussions. I'm just saying that I've never seen any of that stuff or heard it discussed, but it's got to exist somewhere.

• 37:36Jeremy Corbell?

  And so we got to we got to hunt for it. We got to know what to ask for and pursue because it's about transparency. Maybe they can go on a little hunt if we give them some Easter eggs and a FOIA request telling them to do so.

• 37:47George Knapp?

  Yeah, maybe Sean Kirkpatrick can help with that. You know, he knows where all this stuff is.

• 37:53Jeremy Corbell?

  The deception, when we tell that story, the deception, you know, of agencies trying to shape the emerging UAP narrative and how they've done it in our lives, George, wow. But anyway, let's move on to David Grusch because this is like pop culture, like, you know, last few weeks or couple of weeks, you know, I've been getting calls about, did David Grusch see the video of the crashed crafts, the retrieval thing, you know, on like a, you know, body camera, GoPro, whatever it was? Did he see it in official capacity? And, you know, people try to demean it or bring it down by saying, sounded weird. He just said, you know, he saw it. It was like shady. I will affirm to you with 100% certainty

• 38:38Jeremy Corbell?

  that when David Grusch saw the video of official video in the sense that from a government authorized operation, that it was in official capacity, like literally, he was in government capacity at that time to be doing those investigations. That's what that meeting was. So people were trying to demean it, like, did somebody just like show him a video that was untrustworthy? You know, David Grusch, he, my boy is wicked smart. So what he did was cross reference silently, everything about, you know, I'll say that event and

• 39:19Jeremy Corbell?

  whether or not what he saw will ever become public. You know, I hope it does. I'm sure he hopes it does. But what I can report that I think is very important for people to understand was it was while he was in active capacity as that being his job to investigate this. And that makes a huge difference. It takes away that ambiguity and the levels to get to him. It's like, George, if you go into FBI and you give a false claim and you lie to them, that's a prosecutable offense. Like, you don't do that. So to people to get to David Grusch when he's in that position of authority, and then for him to review the footage he saw, the body cam footage, it's like, that creates another level of, okay,

• 40:04Jeremy Corbell?

  interesting. So that footage would be very valuable in the public consciousness. What did he see? Like, get that video out. When people that I've talked to that claim to have seen videos like that, George, like you have, oftentimes their response, like Lazar, when he walked into the craft, he's like, it felt ominous. And that threw me off the first time. What do you mean ominous? He's like, like, I shouldn't be seeing it. Like, it was just, I shouldn't be seeing it. That's the response that I get from people who claim, and I believe them, that they've seen footage of beings. So I just wanted to clear that up. No, David Grusch is not just going on Rogan and saying wild shit. Like, he actually observed that footage in official capacity. I hope that's helpful for for people.

• 40:51George Knapp?

  I had to, we've talked a little bit about Jay Stratton's book. I, I don't know that we'll ever get to interview him about the book, but um, you know, he's being hammered pretty hard by the, the usual assortment of critics, a- as I'm sure he expected. This guy was trusted his whole life, like Dave Grusch. He rose up through the ranks. He worked for a while for CIA. He worked at DIA for a while, Office of Naval Intelligence. He was part of ATIP. He was the, the creator of what became the UAP Task Force, trusted at every level with a nation's highest secrets, um, rose through the ranks, did everything right, has never

• 41:32George Knapp?

  lied to his employers that we know of, um, and is highly regarded by everybody who worked for him and with him, except some anonymous guy at the Pentagon who, who says that he was crazy, who was quoted in some story. Um, a, a good guy, a trustworthy guy, until he starts writing about things that he learned on the inside that was approved by Dopser, which many people I guess find suspicious. If Dopser lets them say it, it can't be true. But, you know, and now suddenly when he's out and is able to write about these things, he's a complete liar. I, I, you know, same thing with, with Grusch. Trusted in these very sensitive positions by his nation to, to help protect national security on this

• 42:16George Knapp?

  particular issue. And suddenly when he says what he knows, he's not trustworthy anymore. It, it doesn't, it doesn't jive.

• 42:24Jeremy Corbell?

  It doesn't. And, you know, just for the record, so we can kind of put this out here, you know, you did the first interview that Jay ever did, not just-

• 42:38Speaker 00

  In deepest jungle, Cartier's panther spies a wandering bird that circles the skies. A lovebird, lost and missing his mate, is far from his past in lonely state. Dry your tears, now there's a start. Follow my steps to heal your heart. Panther stalks through the leaves with silent grace. Through the power of scent, she finds the trace. Behold, two lovers reunite in the skies. A most precious thrill sparkling in their eyes. Together forever, they shine each day, bound by the beauty of Cartier.

• 43:23Speaker 01

  Real value shows up in reliability you don't have to second guess. Like a set of Firestone All-Season tires. They're designed to deliver confidence inspiring wet weather traction and a quieter ride, no matter the road. Season after season. Firestone All-Season tires. For durability you can count on, just like people count on you. Firestone. Always dependable. Since 1900.

• 43:51Jeremy Corbell?

  Like on camera, like first interview ever. And we put out a, a bigger section of it on The Last Weaponized, rather than just like a clip on Weaponized, episode two and, you know, years ago, because that interview was, um, in 2022, when we went to Rocket City. And it was like, we didn't know if we could use it. For the record, you've known Jay, so as a journalist, you've known Jay longer than anybody. You protected his name. You didn't speak out of school. You waited and waited. You knew he was coming public. And I would love to see George, you and Jay, I mean, I'd love it to be on Weaponized, but you and Jay, just talking it through your history, your history together, from

• 44:36Jeremy Corbell?

  Harry Reid connection to, um, you know, UAP TF and all this stuff. Man, the, the world wants to see more than anybody, you long-form interview Jay Stratton. You know, he, he's doing these, these news shows and you have to be like so quick. You're like spitting out these quick things, like, it's like a script. You can see it's so different than the long form, the first interview. He's so eloquent and he's so informed and you and him talking would be amazing. So this is my ploy that he should come on Weaponized. And I, I think you just got to call him and you guys talk about it. But the world wants to see you guys talk because you've known each other for so long. And I think it's egregious

• 45:20Jeremy Corbell?

  that you haven't done that yet. I'm not putting that on you, George. I know you're busy, but just call your pal and, and get him to talk with you. I think that that's, the world wants to see it. Um, also, you know, Jay was, he's not alone. Like, it's not like there's a top dog. I think Jay would be the first to admit that there was tons of people that helped and worked with his endeavors. And there's tons of people that, that he worked with. And I think he'd want to give them their accolades. I think, you know, you get kind of lost in these news things where you don't get to talk about the teams that you worked with and the people that really helped you out. So I think there's another story to be told about what that group dynamic was of people that worked with Jay on trying

• 46:03Jeremy Corbell?

  to get this stuff forward. I think that's probably important to him to give accolades to people because a lot of people come out, they never worked with him and they pretend they worked for UAP TF and analyzed videos and shit like that. So I think it'd be cool to hear it from him in an interview with you. Um-

• 46:18George Knapp?

  That might happen. I mean, we're in touch here and there. I, I think, you know, there's a book and there's a marketing team around him that know way more about how to do this kind of stuff than I do. It's over my head. So I think that, you know, those, the interviews they've done on these national newscasts, they're not the in-depth things that we would want to see, but they do work for the general public, um, and have got a lot of attention. I, I have no, I, I understand that. I mean, that's the, that's the way they want to go. But, you know, he hasn't said no. I'm hoping that we will get to sit down with him at some point and-

• 46:50Jeremy Corbell?

  I'm just being selfish, George. I just want, because you did the first interview with him in history and we put a part out, Last Weaponized, I would just love to sit back and watch you guys talk for an hour about everything, you know, because you, you protected his name back in the day. I remember, you know, you know, all of that. I, I just think it would be so interesting. Anyway, one last thing I got to say before, um, you know, end of this, unless you got something, you know, you want to crack off. But I, I wanted to know what, what you think. I've, I've been thinking a lot about this, been talking with, um, with Congress. Do we need more hearings? And my, my answer is yes. It's kind of like Arrow, or sorry, it's kind of like Pursue, like the more information

• 47:31Jeremy Corbell?

  that comes out, the better. He was like, who would we hear from though? Okay. So these next hearings, if we end up having them, or if that's something the public wants, tell Congress. But I, I have some suggestions. Of course, I'd love to hear Jay do a hearing, like that would be amazing. He should be part of that because he's, was so integral to all of this. He could answer the questions the public's asking in official capacity under oath, which is different. But also, I would like this hearing to be different. I want Representative Luna, Burchett and Burleson to bring in the hostile witnesses. I want Glenn Gaffney forced to be up there in Congress and answer to the accusations

• 48:11Jeremy Corbell?

  and the facts of the historic record. I want Dr. Kirkpatrick to be standing up there, hand raised, not in that whole Gillibrand, cool little Senate thing where she's stroking his ego, saying he looks handsome and asks him if he needs more money. I want them to grill him on what I believe are, are is slander or whatever, when you say bullshit people about, you know, things about people. I want Glenn Gaffney and, um, Kirkpatrick standing right there next to someone like Jay. That would be the coolest hearing ever. So I, let's take a poll. Does the public think that we need more hearings with people up there under oath? And if so, what kinds of people would you want? However, I think we should have

• 48:55Jeremy Corbell?

  Glenn Gaffney and Sean Kirkpatrick, maybe Susan Gao up there under oath, and then have someone like Jay as the intermediary to sit there and, and be able to answer questions to. What do you think of that idea? And do you think that's crazy?

• 49:09George Knapp?

  Well, it sounds like it'd be great TV. I don't know that it would ever happen, but I'd like to, you know, I'd like to think that Jay at some point would be a witness. I'd really love to see those other two pulled into a public hearing. I can imagine the kind of pressure that would be placed on those, uh, individual lawmakers if they were to call those guys, send them a letter and say, hey, you're coming forward. Oh my gosh.

• 49:32Jeremy Corbell?

  Luna, Luna don't care. Luna would be like, bring it on. I, I think they've tried to summon, uh, Kirkpatrick a bunch of times. I mean, bring it on, do it public. Let's just get it all out in the open.

• 49:43George Knapp?

  I know a lot of people are worried what happens in the election because Representatives Luna, Burchett, Burleson have sort of led the way. They've been the most vocal, uh, House members who've, who've, uh, been pushing for answers on this stuff. But recall, this is a bipartisan issue. Each of the hearings that we sat in on, the Democratic lawmakers, uh, maybe not as often, uh, and as vociferous, but they were right there asking the same kinds of questions as well. I don't think it's going to matter one bit, uh, if, if the Democrats take control of the House versus the Republicans. I think they're just as interested as well. On the-

• 50:19Speaker 00

  In deepest jungle, Cartier's panther spies a wandering bird that circles the skies. A lovebird, lost and missing his mate, is far from his past in lonely state. Dry your tears, now there's a start. Follow my steps to heal your heart. Panther stalks through the leaves with silent grace. Through the power of scent, she finds the trace. Behold, two lovers reunite in the skies. A most precious thrill sparkling in their eyes. Together forever, they shine each day, bound by the beauty of Cartier.

• 51:03George Knapp?

  Senate side Schumer, the legis- his legislation is named for him, you know, the, the UAP Disclosure Act and, and the provisions that have been included in a couple of different versions. They, you know, if he ends up being Majority Leader of the Senate again, if the Senate changes hands, I think it's still an issue that he's interested in. And it's, it's, it's, uh, it's true of Republicans in the Senate as well. Mike Rounds, for example, that you've talked to.

• 51:30George Knapp?

  Andre Carson.

• 51:31Jeremy Corbell?

  I've, I've specifically, I've specifically personally talked with Senator Mike Rounds about this issue and about shenanigans of a controlled UAP hearing that happened a while back regarding Immaculate Constellation. I have specifically and directly talked with him about it. I think people filmed that. I think there's a shot of that in the UFO Revolution. But you brought up Andre Carson. You said he's a Democrat?

• 51:57George Knapp?

  He is a Democrat, yeah.

• 51:59Jeremy Corbell?

  So, very interestingly, I think that he has recently demanded Arrow's Part Two Historical Report, which is so overdue, it's ridiculous. And I, I believe, if I'm recalling correctly, as Representative Carson, who was, by the way, he was like the first guy that ran, like the first UFO, you know, hearing saying, "We're bringing this back. This is so important." Had that coffee drop moment. He said my name. How did he even know my name? This dude, who, you know, what he has done by kicking this off, this hornet's nest, he's still in it. How I know he's still in it is because if I got my information right, he just demanded the Part Two of the Arrow Historical Report. Oh my gosh. Now we're

• 52:42Jeremy Corbell?

  coming up towards modern day history, although they conveniently skip over the Tic Tac Event every time because of low sensor data, which is BS. So, um, I think he's in the game and you're saying that's really important because he is bipartisan. Is that what you're saying?

• 53:00George Knapp?

  It's like the only bipartisan issue in Washington. You know, you got members on, on both sides of the aisle, to whom this is deeply important. And I don't think it matters if the control of one house or the other changes hands, changes party hands. There are champions for this issue on both sides in both houses. So, I hope that all of our pro-UFO disclosure members are still around after January, but we'll see. We'll see soon enough.

• 53:28Jeremy Corbell?

  Well, look, um, I will tell you that there are people, and you know this, that are not public within the House, and I don't know how you call it, within the House and Senate, within Congress, that are deeply, deeply involved, that just are not public yet. Those three, though, because they're so powerful and, and pushing, and, and Luna is so cutthroat, and, and she's a baller with this stuff, with the UAP stuff, it, it's incredible. I hope that they stick on it. I'm sure they will. Um, but there are other people that have been involved for a long time, and I think if there becomes a void, those people push in. But I, but I think right now, uh, I think we got a good team

• 54:13Jeremy Corbell?

  of people fighting for this, for the American public. My last message today is, if you want a hearing with Glenn Gaffney and Dr. Kirkpatrick that is, you know, not this kind of like shine on, like, um, like there was with Kirkpatrick before, then the public has to demand it. How do you demand it? It's so easy. Go on X and tag them. There's such a vanity for people. Everybody reads every tag that, you know, that has them. We have to demand it. If we don't demand it, it's not gonna happen. You don't gotta write petitions and start a whole thing. Tag them on X. It's the most powerful thing you can do.

• 54:48George Knapp?

  All right. Well, we didn't cover all the UFO news. There were some good drops on old Air Force files in this number, tranche, tranche number seven.

• 54:56Jeremy Corbell?

  Really?

• 54:56George Knapp?

  And, uh, we can still talk about that at another point. Um, and I look forward to the next drop, too. And, and again, it's not the end all be all. They're not showing us pictures of bodies. I don't imagine that they're going to do that at any point. But, um, the stuff that's coming out, the fact that it's even being released at all is important. The process is important. And now some of the material that's coming out is pretty important. There's a lot of good stuff in OSAB's files still to come here, so I hope people keep their eyes peeled.

• 55:25Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay, so tranche eight, I'm excited for, but we want videos this time.

• 55:29George Knapp?

  Yeah.

• 55:29Jeremy Corbell?

  We want more videos. And if you don't know where they are, there are some Air Force videos that George and I have given the exact names to. I think it was about 14 to 16 of them that can go be looked at and grabbed and put into the Pursue releases. And Congress has those. So you can call them and ask for those file names. They have the file names and where they are. So I want videos in the next tranche. Uh, you know, this is my wishlist for Santa, even though it's Halloween. Um, and, you know, I'd love to see if people want a hearing. It's kind of like a poll and who they'd want in it. Last thing, George, um, now I have to go to the market. I've been working on roofs all day. I gotta go to the market. I need to get Cheerios. What exactly, specifically, from a journalism perspective, am I looking for?

• 56:14George Knapp?

  These are pumpkin spice Cheerios. Limited time only. I think they'll probably be gone by the time Thanksgiving rolls around, so you gotta grab a couple of boxes.

• 56:24Jeremy Corbell?

  I don't know if they have those, um, on Mercury where I'm living, but I'm, I'm gonna look for them.

• 56:29George Knapp?

  Okay, all right.

• 56:30Jeremy Corbell?

  All right, man. Thank you.