We're Talking 'The Source' with Dr Tara Swart

Dr Tara Swart opens up about the cognitive science that shapes what we believe is possible, unpacking the true potential of the human brain. From explaining neuroplasticity to breaking down the science behind manifestation, Dr Tara reflects on how we can create the right conditions to take healthy risks and feel more agency over our lives. She also revisits the misconceptions around the laws of attraction, the importance of building a "trust muscle," and the practical steps to using a vision board to actively achieve your goals, rather than just waiting for things to fall from the sky. Insightful, practical and revealing, this is a conversation about the untapped power of the mind and the science that proves you have the power to shape the life you want. We're Talking Dr Tara Swart! (00:00) Intro(00:28) What Is 'The Source'?(03:45) Dr Tara Swart Explains the Science of Manifestation(07:53) How Vision Boards Work and What to Put on Them(14:53) Organised Ad(16:20) How to Manifest Through Visualisation Sponsored by: Organised - Use code TALK for 15% off at https://www.organised.co/talk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 1:00Speaker 02

  Welcome to We're Talking. In today's episode, I sit down with Dr. Tara Swart to explore how our brains shape what we believe is possible, from neuroplasticity and visualization to the science behind manifestation.

• 1:28Speaker 02

  What is the source? And why is the source so important to us?

• 1:36Speaker 03

  From my point of view, the source is basically your brain firing on all cylinders. So it's you at your best in a more relational way. But from the neuroscience and cognitive science, it's about creating the conditions in your body, in your environment, and that includes relationships, so that you can take some healthy risks and do feel more agency over your life. And don't feel like life is just happening to you and you feel a bit powerless to do anything about it. Don't have regrets. One of the ways I get people to think about whether they want to go on that journey is, has your life panned out as you always dreamt that it would? And if the answer to that is no,

• 2:21Speaker 03

  I just really want people to understand that there is so much potential in the brain to change that much more than people may think.

• 2:28Speaker 02

  Is this word manifesting, and it comes in?

• 2:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:31Speaker 02

  All right. So this is an area that I have honestly struggled with.

• 2:36Speaker 03

  Oh, at its absolute simplest level, and this is why I really invite people not to be skeptical about it. It's setting a goal and doing what you need to do to make that goal become true.

• 2:50Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:51Speaker 03

  So you can't really argue with that as something that people could or might want to do. The manifestation part of it is, well, prior to me writing The Source, the general consensus was that the universe or a higher power or certain types of energy

• 3:12Speaker 03

  could help you to get the things that you want in your life

• 3:18Speaker 03

  via a certain way of thinking, or visualizing, or creating a visual image, like a vision board, of the things that you want.

• 3:27Speaker 03

  But the way that that story was told kind of made people feel like they didn't actually have to do anything but say, "I'd love to have a house in Hampton," you know?

• 3:35Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:37Speaker 03

  And that there was some mysterious force that would make it happen, which I actually feel is quite disempowering for people.

• 3:45Speaker 03

  So over a summer, I just decided to Google "what are the laws of attraction?" and see how much cognitive science I could pin to them. And so the first thing I found was that there wasn't even universal agreement about what they were or how many there were. So I grouped them into six categories. And immediately I could see there's so much cognitive science that can explain this. And what I like about that is that that is saying, you, Paul, with your brain power, your intelligence, your creativity, your motivation, your intuition, you can make things happen in the world that you really want. But you must be going out there and doing something to make it happen,

• 4:30Speaker 03

  not sitting at home, creating a fantasy, and just waiting for it to fall out of the sky.

• 4:34Speaker 02

  Right, right. And that's very empowering, very. So how do we do this? I mean, how do we manifest? Because one part of this is so interesting because I would argue that most of us don't believe we have that power.

• 4:55Speaker 02

  So how do we do it?

• 4:59Speaker 03

  Let's put it like this, just to make it really tangible. It's to do with neuroplasticity, which is the fact that our brain is growing and changing throughout our lives. I think that one of the reasons people thought that they couldn't do it is because we believed for such a long time, I mean, until 20, 30 years ago, not even 30, 20, that by the time you physically stopped growing, so usually around the age of 18, that your brain also completely stopped growing and changing. And that you were stuck with the personality, the IQ, the EQ,

• 5:37Speaker 03

  the capability, as it were, to do new things. Then, once we had sophisticated scanning technology, because before that, in neurology, we really only understood how the brain worked when things went wrong. So when someone had a stroke and certain parts of their speech or their body didn't work, then we were like, "Oh, that's related to that part of the brain." And equally, if we did surgery for a tumor or something and you touched certain parts of the brain and the person jerked their leg or spoke, then you think, "Oh, that's to do with..."

• 6:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 6:08Speaker 03

  Yeah. Once we could scan healthy brains, we could see lots of things, like what happens when you have an emotion or you make a good decision. But also, we could see how much the brain was changing in response to everything that it's experiencing.

• 6:25Speaker 03

  And we saw that that process was active till we were 25. And just to remind people how amazing that process is, think of your kids when they went from zero to two. They literally could do nothing for themselves at first and completely relied on you for survival. And by the age of two, they're telling you what to do. In up to five languages, they can learn up to five languages at the same time in the first two years of their life, as long as a different person speaks each one to them individually. They are walking independently. They can control their bladder and their bowels. And of course, more growth and learning from then.

• 7:06Speaker 03

  So people saying, "I don't have the power to manifest as an adult," is literally like someone saying, "There is absolutely no way I could learn Spanish as an adult." So it's going to be harder than it was when you were at school, right? But most people could. Some people I know just don't like languages. But it's something like a language or a musical instrument. It's a difficult thing to learn. But if you gave up your day job and spent a year having lessons and practicing every day, you would become fluent.

• 7:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 7:40Speaker 03

  Now, of course, we're not going to ask everyone to give up their day job and start manifesting full-time. So it has to start small. You have to almost build up that trust muscle with it by doing things that are achievable, like within your grasp, that you feel you have more agency over. My favorite way of doing it is through a vision board. And I will purposely have things on my vision board that I know there's a lot I can do about making that happen. And then the other ones, I'll allow them to just run slightly under the radar for the whole year. And I'll do what I can, but that may be more limited. And so I sometimes do mine on Pinterest. So that means I can move things from the board

• 8:24Speaker 03

  to an area that says "manifested." So I'm continually visually reminding myself, "I did that one, did that one, got that one." And then that helps you to think of maybe new ways or opportunities to make the ones come true that might have seemed a bit harder at the beginning of the year.

• 8:42Speaker 02

  Is... Are there any limitations to what we should place on our vision board or what we should attempt to manifest? Because I'd imagine, I mean, so many people have relationship or would desire a relationship, a home, different job, could be children. Are these all fair? We can manifest all of these?

• 9:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:08Speaker 02

  All of these? £10 million?

• 9:12Speaker 03

  That one, if you're a hedge fund trader, yeah, sure, put that on. But I wouldn't put that on in the first year if you are currently earning £50,000.

• 9:23Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 9:23Speaker 03

  Because all you're going to do is show yourself that you can fail.

• 9:28Speaker 02

  Okay. So how do we determine what is within grasp and what is beyond when we're manifesting?

• 9:38Speaker 03

  The process of doing vision boards every year over several years has obviously really helped me to hone that.

• 9:44Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 9:45Speaker 03

  And with a couple of friends, when I was staying with them, they said, please, could you look at my board? And there were just some things that were obvious to me that should be moved or removed or replaced. And both gave me amazing feedback afterwards. So I think it's a skill that you build up over time.

• 9:59Speaker 02

  All right.

• 10:00Speaker 03

  But I will certainly say that when I did my first one, I kept it very realistic. So I did my first one when I had just changed careers, so given up medicine and started my coaching career at the time. And I can't remember everything that was on it, but there was a certain amount of money on it. And a coach who was kind of helping me with it challenged me about why I'd chosen that figure. And I said, well, that's, that's what I need to live for a year. And she said, I think you should double it. And I remember thinking, doubling it seems really unrealistic. I mean, maybe I could increase it so it's not just what I need, but it's kind of, you know, a little bit more of a measure of success.

• 10:43Speaker 03

  But she really pushed me, so I did put the double figure on it. And I did make that, that year. And it wasn't, it wasn't a huge figure, but it was double of what I said I needed to live for a year, kind of thing. But if I had put, you know, a million dollars on there, I would have got to the end of the year and thought I was a failure. I'm not going to set myself up for that. Obviously, the number has increased over time. And at one point, I just stopped making it a number and just made it a symbol of abundance. Because mine are much more metaphorical now, and I feel like that gives me a bit of room for magic, if you know what I mean.

• 11:18Speaker 02

  Yes. Let's say that it's someone who's in a 20-year relationship, and they feel as if their relationship is stagnant, and they want more from, from, from their relationship. And they're flipping through a magazine, and they see a couple laughing, giggling on the beach.

• 11:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:39Speaker 02

  And it feels they have that, that reaction. So you're saying, take that image, place it on the board.

• 11:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:46Speaker 02

  Okay. Then what's the next step?

• 11:49Speaker 03

  Place it somewhere prominent that you can see it regularly. So my ideal place is next to my bed, because you see it at least twice a day. And there is an advantage to seeing it last thing at night as well. Did you ever play Tetris on a Game Boy?

• 12:01Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh, I still play Tetris.

• 12:03Speaker 03

  Do you? And when you close your eyes, do you see the numbers dropping?

• 12:09Speaker 02

  Yes, I do.

• 12:10Speaker 03

  Okay, so that's called the Tetris effect. And you can get a bit of that by having your image, image right next to your bed, so you see it before you close your eyes.

• 12:18Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 12:19Speaker 03

  Because a lot of psychological work goes on overnight. And what you're doing is you're imprinting that image onto your subconscious. And then you're taking advantage of three neurological processes that are, that make it more likely that you will notice and grasp opportunities to move closer to your goal during your waking hours. And they are selective filtering, selective attention, and value tagging.

• 12:44Speaker 02

  Hmm, okay.

• 12:46Speaker 03

  We're bombarded with so much information, our brain has to filter most of it out. So that's why you don't feel your clothes on your skin all day, because it's, it's data that you don't really require. And the brain is doing that kind of just automatically all the time. So a farm in Jamaica is a luxury. It's not crucial to your survival. So your brain isn't going to be spending a whole lot of time thinking about, how do I get a farm in Jamaica? It's going to be thinking about, who's my next podcast guest?

• 13:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 13:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 13:21Speaker 03

  So by priming it with imagery, you're making it more likely that your brain isn't just filtering that out.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  Interesting. But if it was the relationship, the, if it was the happy, you know, the couple who's happy on the beach, let's say that in, in, in, in my current relationship, I wasn't happy. It seems like that's critical enough where I would constantly be, be thinking about that one.

• 13:45Speaker 03

  That's true. But maybe not doing anything about it.

• 13:47Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 13:48Speaker 03

  So, you know, even having that image there of a really happy couple laughing is going to start changing your mindset from relationship stale, and, you know, this is what I'm stuck with for the rest of my life, to maybe I watched, you know, a TED Talk by a psychologist that says you can restart a marriage at any time.

• 14:08Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 14:09Speaker 03

  You know, or you start reading some books about it, or you go to therapy when you wouldn't have done that before.

• 14:14Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 14:15Speaker 03

  So I think it's about changing your mind and then looking for opportunities. So in that one, the relationship one, it would go from feeling like you're stuck in this situation now, to perhaps being more proactive about what you could do differently to reignite that relationship. And, you know, potentially, of course, the answer to that could be that you both go your separate ways and find new relationships with other people.

• 14:41Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 14:42Speaker 03

  And it's fresh, and you're laughing on the beach, you know, sort of, there's a variety of solutions that could be beneficial for both.

• 14:49Speaker 02

  All right, that's fair.

• 14:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:51Speaker 02

  But, but that, so you mentioned that those, those three, there was a value tagging, uh...

• 14:57Speaker 03

  Selective filtering we talked about.

• 14:58Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 14:59Speaker 03

  So selective attention is the fact that you are, you know, they say when you buy a new car, you suddenly see the exact same car everywhere.

• 15:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 15:06Speaker 03

  So the fact that you've got this image so prominent for you means you're more likely to, to see a for sale advert, or you're more likely to tell your friends that this is what your dream is, and then one of your friends in Jamaica says, hey, I saw a plot come up for sale.

• 15:18Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 15:19Speaker 03

  If you don't, like, tell anyone, then no one can help you.

• 15:21Speaker 02

  Ah, I see. So i- in the relationship context, you're probably seeing, you're, you're more aware of maybe other couples, you're perhaps, you know, more aware of the, the advertisement for counselling, you're more aware of the TED Talk that pops up that talks about. So, so you're more aware of these things. All right, fair.

• 15:41Speaker 03

  And probably, because you notice I said, you're more likely to notice and grasp opportunities, so you're probably more likely to do something about it as well, rather than...

• 15:51Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 15:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:53Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 15:54Speaker 04

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• 15:59Speaker 02

  What's up?

• 16:00Speaker 04

  What is that?

• 16:01Speaker 02

  Oh, this? Cow liver.

• 16:03Speaker 04

  Okay, gross.

• 16:05Speaker 02

  See, that reaction right there, we talk about some pretty uncomfortable things on the show, but put an organ on a table and apparently, that's where we draw the line?

• 16:13Speaker 04

  Okay, but why do we have organ meat here?

• 16:16Speaker 02

  They're actually some of the most nutrient-dense parts of the animal, yet we treat them as the part we never want to eat.

• 16:22Speaker 04

  Never really thought about it that way. Do you guys eat it at home?

• 16:26Speaker 02

  We do. I eat them, my boys eat them, my wife eats them, we love them, especially on travel. But I really think about when we're at home and making sure they're getting the nutrients they need, because we just don't have a lot of time. But most people aren't suddenly going to start cooking organ meat, which this new brand, Organize, understands. They've started sponsoring our show, and we've been trying it out. Add it to smoothies, soups, even your coffee, it is easy.

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• 17:44Speaker 01

  When fall comes back around, there's a sense of a reset. And new pieces from Lululemon's Fall Drop are an inspiration to push your goals and elevate your routines. As your calendar fills, easy-to-layer styles meet the demands of your day. And as you challenge yourself to try even more, versatile sets transition with you. The Lululemon Fall Lineup brings new levels of comfort and confidence, whether you're starting something fresh or starting something over. Check out the latest arrivals in-store and on lululemon.com now.

• 18:14Speaker 02

  So this is the first step, though. And having that image on the vision board is that's the entry point. But then is there anything else that we should be doing to manifest?

• 18:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, so visualization. So whether it's, some people can't visualize, it's called aphantasia. So vision boards are great for them because you can actually look at a real image. But whether it's looking at your board or closing your eyes and literally with all of your senses, seeing yourself on that farm in Jamaica, like what it smells like, what the earth's like underfoot, what, you know, sounds you're hearing, really immersing yourself in that. Because for the brain, there isn't that much of a difference between actually doing something and having visualized it. So when you visualize it repeatedly, it doesn't feel like such a new or scary thing. Because the brain doesn't like new things, doesn't like change.

• 19:11Speaker 03

  So visualization is a great way of practicing going on a date, for example. You know, see yourself, what you're wearing, where you'll be, who you'll be meeting. See it going really well, see you both laughing and see at the end that he asks you for a second date. You know, like go in like that, you know, rather than nervous or thinking of another kind of, you know, blind date or whatever.

• 19:38Speaker 02

  But on that note, a visualization and using that for your dates is, do you feel like you set the expectation too high?

• 19:45Speaker 03

  So I wouldn't, I wouldn't pin that to expectation. I would just do the visualization as a meditation and just be so grateful for that potential outcome. And maybe it's not going to be the next date, but that's the outcome that you want. And you're visualizing it and you're going on these dates to make it more likely to come true.

• 20:01Speaker 02

  The year is up and I don't have the farm in Jamaica. Or I don't, I'm not on the beach with my partner and we're laughing. Then what do we do next?

• 20:12Speaker 03

  Some things do take a bit longer than a year. So like I said, building up the trust muscle, if you can look back and say, oh, well, those three or four things on my board have come true. I actually remember a year where it was 2015. And I had said to my friend, who's a professor of neuroscience at UCL, I'm going to find husband number two this year. And it was December and he said, well, you didn't find husband number two, did you? But then for me, it happened the following February, so like two months later.

• 20:46Speaker 02

  Look at that.

• 20:46Speaker 03

  So some things just like are a bit, go into the following year. Quite often, well, about 50% of the time, I'll keep the board from last year because there are still things pending. And I'll just add new things over the top of things that I've already manifested. So it's not a hard and fast rule for a year. But I think if, if you're, you know, repeatedly in a pattern of things not working out, then there's probably a lot of deep work to do. And I suggest to people that if, you know, something bad keeps repeating or something good just never happens, then journaling is a great way to analyze your thoughts around your sense of deservingness of that thing.

• 21:29Speaker 03

  Because that's often the root cause of not manifesting.

• 21:32Speaker 02

  With manifesting, I think there's a large group of people who, quite honestly, I mean, I'd say, but like, there's no action.

• 21:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's my point.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, there's just zero action. And this has become the narrative around law of attraction to a certain extent.

• 21:52Speaker 03

  And I think that's why it's really helpful that people like me and Dr. James Doty, who's also a neuroscientist, are writing about it in a way that is based in some science, that is really like practical, you know, can talk about cases of success. I mean, the number of DMs I get from people saying, I'm engaged, I'm pregnant, I started my own business is just wonderful. And it's, I'm lucky that I get that all the time because it's just reminding me all the time how amazing manifestation is.

• 22:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 22:21Speaker 03

  And I like to share those stories when I get them as well.

• 22:24Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 22:25Speaker 03

  But I just want to finish off the process for you because I really want you to do this.

• 22:27Speaker 02

  Okay, done. I'm going to do it.

• 22:29Speaker 03

  So you get the images, get them right. I always say, leave them in a pet-proof, child-proof, windproof place for overnight. Look at it again the next day. Once you're sure it's right, glue it on. Some people never glue it on because they don't feel they deserve it. That's another thing I found. So, you know, be sure that this is what I want. If you feel okay to do this, then you could even put it somewhere that other people might see it. Because like I said, people want to help you when that happens. They don't judge you.

• 22:59Speaker 02

  So even in this case, would you recommend posting this on social media? Or is it too much?

• 23:05Speaker 03

  If people want to. So a lot of people send me their vision boards.

• 23:08Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 23:08Speaker 03

  And I always say, can I repost this anonymously? So then I take a screenshot and I remove their name and I repost it so that people can see examples of them.

• 23:18Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 23:18Speaker 03

  But I'm not going to, you know, send, post something that someone gave me in confidence. But if I chose to post my own one, obviously that would be fine. So it's the, it's the visualizing, but then also bringing your other senses in to really integrate it for you. And then in that moment of believing that this is like here and now, and I'm standing in my farm in Jamaica, just give gratitude for that being true. Because that's putting your brain away from the fear and shame states associated with cortisol into the love and trust and joy and excitement state associated with oxytocin. So it's kind of bringing some, you know, like we talked about before, it's bringing that love and oxytocin into your brain state.

• 24:02Speaker 03

  And you're much more likely to manifest from that state than a fear state.

• 24:05Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. And how often should I be doing this, the visualization piece?

• 24:13Speaker 03

  I would say, place the board where you're seeing it at least once a day.

• 24:18Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 24:19Speaker 03

  And then with all these foundational practices like journaling and gratitude, for me, when I start them, I do them every day for a year till it's ingrained in my brain. You know, that's neuroplasticity. And then later I just do them when I feel that I need to.

• 24:33Speaker 02

  When it comes to our relationships, new partners, a better, you know, the increased behavior, positive behavior of a partner, we can manifest these things.

• 24:44Speaker 03

  We can manifest these things, but there's a lot we can be doing in the real world to make these things be true.

• 24:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 24:53Speaker 03

  I think, I'm just going to give a really extreme example here. But when people are at an age where everyone's kind of getting married and starting to have babies and stuff, there's, you know, a bit of a mismatch in the group. There's usually a five-year period where that's happening for some people and it's not happening for others. And so I've had a lot of examples of people saying, well, I want that too. But, and you know, I definitely want to have a family like before I'm age, whatever. But rather than taking, you know, the multivitamins that are going to improve your fertility, they're going out partying because they think that's the way that they might meet a partner. So, you know, your actions have to align with what you're saying. And also what you're saying really mustn't be just because that's what everybody else is doing and you think that's what you want.

• 25:38Speaker 03

  It must be something, I call it magnetic desire, something that you genuinely, truly want, like logically, emotionally and intuitively.

• 25:48Speaker 02

  Does this social contagion at all impact our ability to manifest?

• 25:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, so if you're surrounded by people who are into manifestation and visualization and they encourage you and they give you examples of what they've done, then of course you're much more likely to do that. But if you're the one person in your group that's trying to manifest and everyone else thinks it's woo-woo, then it's going to be harder.

• 26:16Speaker 02

  It's not going to happen. And how do you define social contagion?

• 26:20Speaker 03

  It's about what's acceptable socially. And so what's in your group, your community, your tribe, is going to have some impact on some of your choices. So it's very unusual, for example, that one person is the only smoker in a group. It's very unusual that there's only one married couple in a group. You know, so it's kind of, it's what's normal for you. And that has a cascade effect. So, you know, you often see strings of divorces or you often see people pitting on weight and then kind of like the whole group does. So let's say you had a group of friends that were all single. I'm not, I'm not saying like, if they're like really good old friends, that you get rid of them and only hang out with married people.

• 27:05Speaker 03

  But maybe you could help each other and say, you know, what is it about us and the way we think and the way we behave in the world that's keeping us all single? That's like, you know, manifest this together kind of thing. But if you have a, if you want to be healthy with your partner and they want to sit on the couch and eat chips all day, then something, yeah, has to change.

• 27:25Speaker 02

  Yes. And you're saying, it sounds like you're saying that if you are unhappy in your relationship, then there is a higher likelihood that there are other people in your social circle who are also unhappy.

• 27:40Speaker 03

  I don't think we can say that. But what we can say is that if you're unhappy in your relationship, but you're staying together because all of your friends are married and have been for a long time, then if one of those friends suddenly says, actually, we're getting divorced, you're more likely to then do so because you were already unhappy, but it was, didn't feel socially acceptable to divorce.

• 28:02Speaker 02

  Okay, okay.

• 28:03Speaker 03

  And so let's put it like this, like, you know, you talked about that couple, 20 years together, it's gone stale. It's very easy to stay in that situation. But if amongst your group of mostly married friends, someone cheats and that triggers a divorce, then even though you haven't had a trigger like that, it might make you think, oh, okay, well, he left the marriage and he's doing okay. And, you know, after a while, he met someone really nice. Maybe that could happen for me. But when you're all in, staying in relationships, whether you're happy or not, you imagine, don't you, that you'll never meet someone else or that, you know, you'll have loads of bad experiences or you won't get something better than what you've got.

• 28:48Speaker 03

  So it definitely keeps you stuck.

• 28:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, it does. And if you want to hear the full, unfiltered stories from today's guest, you can check them out on the We Need to Talk page. Drop a like, leave a comment and hit subscribe. See you next week.

• 29:19Speaker 06

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• 29:49Speaker 07

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