Coleen Rooney: What Was Really Happening Behind The Headlines

Coleen Rooney opens up about her marriage to Wayne Rooney, growing up in the public eye and the private experiences that have shaped her life behind the headlines. In this deeply personal conversation, she reflects on being photographed from just 16, becoming known as one of Britain’s most recognisable WAGs, losing confidence as the scrutiny intensified, and why she now wishes she had owned her place in the public eye more. Coleen revisits the Wagatha Christie case, discovering that information from her private circle was reaching the press, and the years of legal proceedings that followed. She reveals the one thing she would change, how the experience affected the relationships around her, and the personal cost of a story that became global news. She also speaks candidly about miscarriage, motherhood, her marriage to Wayne Rooney and the loss of her younger sister Rosie. Coleen reflects on grief, family and the pressure of always being the strong one, before receiving a deeply personal message from Wayne for the first time that leads her to reflect on the role she has played in his life - and her own. Honest, emotional and revealing, this is Coleen Rooney beyond the headlines - telling the story behind her marriage, family and public life that millions thought they already knew. Coleen Rooney, We Need To Talk This episode includes discussion of baby loss and grief, please watch with care. We have included links to support resources here: Tommys: https://linkly.link/2feiZ CALM: https://linkly.link/2dx8H MIND: https://linkly.link/2dx8b Follow us here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod Sign up to our newsletter https://linkly.link/2eXHX Brand partnerships enquiries: [email protected] Follow Coleen here: https://www.instagram.com/coleen_rooney Watch The Real Rooneys on Disney+ (00:00) Intro (02:05) Growing Up Scouse (03:09) Inside Coleen’s Childhood (04:30) The Photo That Started Everything (09:00) Coleen's Teenage Years (13:12) How Coleen Met Wayne (16:09) Coleen and Wayne's First Date (17:56) The Infamous Photo That Changed Everything (21:33) How Coleen Entered the Public Eye (24:43) Coleen's Take on WAG Culture (28:31) Imposter Syndrome (30:36) What Fame Changed Forever (36:02) Cometeer Ad (37:12) How "WAG" Took Over (42:03) Taking Back Her Own Story (44:29) The Truth About WAGATHA CHRISTIE (58:30) Shopify Ad (59:34) Huel Ad (01:00:57) Reflecting on Pregnancy Loss (01:02:41) Why The Real Rooneys? Why Now? (01:05:42) Coleen's Experience on I'm a Celebrity (01:07:36) Inside Coleen and Wayne's Marriage (01:15:38) Wayne's Message to Coleen (01:22:00) Losing Her Sister Rosie (01:27:16) Most Memorable Conversation (01:31:14) Paul's Takeaways Sponsored by: Cometeer: https://cometeer.com/PAUL for $20 off your first order Shopify: www.shopify.co.uk/needtotalk Huel - http://uk.huel.com/WNTT use code WNTT for £10 off Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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• 1:00Speaker 02

  Someone in your circle was disclosing private information.

• 1:03Speaker 03

  Having the world looking on me, it was probably the worst time of my life.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  And then Rebecca Vardy sues you. Since the case, has she reached out to you?

• 1:14Speaker 03

  Actually, people would always say, she's only in the public eye because of Wayne. I own that. And now I look back and think, I've made the most of it.

• 1:24Speaker 02

  You're Colleen Bruni.

• 1:25Speaker 03

  Yeah. He was always after me. And then I thought, I gave him that date that he's wanted for all of that.

• 1:32Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 1:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:33Speaker 02

  You were relentlessly there for the people you love.

• 1:37Speaker 03

  That's me being strong for him. And in the moment, it then makes me think he wouldn't be where he is if it wasn't for me.

• 1:46Speaker 02

  What do you believe the public need to know about your marriage?

• 1:49Speaker 03

  You know, I've not had a plain sailing marriage. There has been times in my life where I think, is this working?

• 1:56Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:57Speaker 03

  I am not just some robot in the public eye. You can write anything you want about me. I'm a daughter, I'm a sister, I'm someone's fiance.

• 2:09Speaker 02

  I would imagine it impacts family.

• 2:10Speaker 03

  Oh, 100%. What they've gone through has been terrible.

• 2:17Speaker 02

  I have something to show you.

• 2:19Speaker 03

  I am getting like a little bit emotional here.

• 2:25Speaker 02

  Look, pause with me for just a second. Now, whether you've been with us every single week since day one or you just drop in when a guest catches your eye, I see you. I truly appreciate you. Every comment, every share, every time you show up, it matters. We're building a really special community here. If you want to support what we're doing without spending a penny, please take a second and hit the follow button. It costs nothing, but it signals to the world that these conversations matter. Thank you for being on this journey with us. Now, let's get started.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  Can we talk about just Liverpool for a second?

• 3:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:07Speaker 02

  All right, so I have visited Liverpool twice. And the first time I got there, it was hard for me because I couldn't understand what anybody was saying.

• 3:20Speaker 03

  When we go on holiday, my dad, who's got a strong Scouse accent, and people just laugh at him. Like, not laugh at him, they laugh with him because he's a very, he's very warm. Like, he just laughs at anything he says. So they just laugh along, but at the end of it, they go, we haven't got a clue what you have just said, but we're just laughing with you. But yeah, Scouse, some, they do have a strong accent.

• 3:44Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. And by the time I could figure it out, right, what I realized was how much, it felt like how much joy there was among, like, I was shocked at how many live music venues there were in Liverpool, how just charismatic Liverpudlian,

• 4:00Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:01Speaker 02

  Liverpudlians are. But how would you characterize Liverpool?

• 4:06Speaker 03

  I would say it's very welcoming, very warm. We look after our own, we look after each other. And we protect each other in a way that, you know, we are very welcoming. But if you, you know, you do one thing wrong, we'd stand up for that person. I think we're very, got a good sense of humor. And they're just easygoing.

• 4:32Speaker 02

  The city being characterized as that, fun, loving, welcoming. How do you believe that impacts you as a little girl?

• 4:41Speaker 03

  For me, obviously, the core of it was my, my parents. And they were from strong families. My mom's one of eight, my dad's one of five. We had a really big family, loads of cousins, and a very open house. So my childhood's house was the house that my mom grew up in. So every Saturday, the house would be filled because that was the hub of the family. So all my aunties and uncles and my cousins would come. My mom would make a chili or do scones. And, you know, it was a real loving household. And don't get me wrong, you know, sometimes it was, you know, kids were fighting and just like any normal house. But I, you know, I loved that. But as we got older, obviously, families grow and people have their own families.

• 5:26Speaker 03

  And I don't see people like family as much as I would like to now. But if life's busy, and we do try and make time for each other. But obviously, my just family now is of me, Wayne, the kids, and our, you know, our brothers, sisters, and parents.

• 5:43Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. So, Colleen, through the course of this conversation, I have lots of things that I want to show you.

• 5:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:48Speaker 02

  Okay, so I want to show you the first one.

• 5:50Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 5:50Speaker 02

  Okay, you ready for this?

• 5:51Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  Okay, I want you to take a look at this, and I want you to tell me what was going on in it. But, but what are your feelings when you see it?

• 6:03Speaker 03

  So this obviously is me as a baby and my mom and dad. And straight away, what I get from this is how happy they are. My mom lost her mom when she was 16.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 6:17Speaker 03

  So it was, I think, she, even though she had that motherly instinct in her, no matter what, I think that was her way of having her family. And she, she met my dad when she was 16. They married when they were 18 and wanted to start a family straight away. But it never happened. So they longed for this moment for so long.

• 6:42Speaker 02

  So for seven years, your, your mother tried?

• 6:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:47Speaker 02

  You know what's so reminiscent to me about that is, that is roughly how long, hold on, thank you. That is roughly how long my wife and I tried.

• 6:56Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 6:56Speaker 02

  And my wife was on fertility drugs.

• 6:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:00Speaker 02

  And so we tried for eight years to have our, our child.

• 7:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:05Speaker 02

  And then finally, you know, we get Kingston. And I do think that we felt differently as parents as a result of, of attempting for so long. So, so how do you believe that your mother and maybe father then parented you differently?

• 7:23Speaker 03

  So me coming into the world, my dad thanked God. And he, that was his way of, you know, he went when my mom was going through all that treatment, he went on, you know, to Fatima, to a pilgrimage. He, he done, you know, he prayed a lot. And that's my, my middle name is Mary from Our Lady.

• 7:42Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 7:43Speaker 03

  So that was, that was my dad's, you know, he had a lot of faith. Me coming into the world has not changed their way of how they would, would bring a child up because they've had their morals in them and that they, you know, I just think it's give them more of a bigger outlook on life and what they want to do. So that is the reason why they started fostering and helping others and wanting to give their time to, to other people because they wanted to give something back.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  What was the conversation that happened in your household around fostering? And then what was your outlook?

• 8:21Speaker 03

  Our house was always a busy house. So when my mom and dad sat us down and they said, listen, we've been thinking we would like to do respite care. So at the beginning, it was respite. So we would have children come to our house a weekend once a month. Once they got onto that ladder, they asked my mom and dad, would they like to go into short-term fostering?

• 8:45Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 8:46Speaker 03

  So again, they had the conversation with us. And obviously, the children would come and stay for a small period of time. At the beginning, it was, it was newborn babies.

• 8:55Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 8:56Speaker 03

  Two girls and a boy. And the boy, he stayed for a bit longer than the girls because of the placement that he was going to. And we still see him to this day.

• 9:06Speaker 02

  Do you?

• 9:06Speaker 03

  He's 18, he's part of the family. And what was lovely was his parents asked my mom and dad, would they, would, would they be open for him to keep in touch over the years? And they were like, we would love to. And now he, he look, you know, he looks after our children. He babysits for my brother's kids. He is part of our family, which is lovely.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  That's incredible, that's incredible. What were the, the economic circumstances growing up?

• 9:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, so my dad was a bricklayer and my mom was a nationess. But then when she had me, they, as a, as a couple, they took the decision that my mom was going to be a full-time mom. And they've always, I would say, obviously, didn't have a lot, but they've always been givers as well. And I always remember my dad sitting down on a Friday evening after, after work, and he would go through his list of, of, you know, what was going in and what was coming out. And, and there would be about a list of charities on that, you know, on the bank statement. And it would be two pound, two pound, two, you know. So it was, but he always gave to other, even though we didn't, you know.

• 10:21Speaker 03

  A lot of people today would say, I haven't got that to give. But he made it in his plan, you know, I'm going to give that little, no matter how little it is, it's making a difference somewhere.

• 10:32Speaker 02

  Can I show you another photo?

• 10:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  All right. Sometimes people don't like their photos.

• 10:37Speaker 03

  I'm excited, but then at the same time, I'm a bit like, oh.

• 10:44Speaker 03

  So this is me at seven, making my first Holy Communion. I think the first thing that comes into mind is the dress. I've always loved, you know, clothes and as a child, I was the one. I wasn't really into toys and dolls. I just wanted a new dress or, you know, new shoes, hair, accessories. And I just remember the excitement of going shopping for my first Holy Communion dress. Now, when I think about it, it's probably like a mini wedding, you know, like when I think. I went to pick my wedding dress with my mum and my nan and my auntie, whereas it was the same with my communion dress.

• 11:25Speaker 03

  But no, it's, I think it's a lovely time in, you know, life where you're young, you're innocent. You are excited for these big milestones and, you know, so that was a big thing, going to a Catholic school. So at this point, I wanted to be a teacher.

• 11:42Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 11:43Speaker 03

  A children, you know, a infant school teacher. But I think that was because my teacher at the time was a big influence on me. I really loved being in her company and loved the way she was with, you know, the children. And, and obviously it's probably part of my mum as well, you know, working with children and having that, that love for children. But yeah.

• 12:06Speaker 02

  If you could go back and have a conversation with Colleen, right there in that moment, and give her advice on the life that she's about to live, what would you tell her?

• 12:18Speaker 03

  Just the things you would say, you know, be confident, do, do you and don't be afraid.

• 12:27Speaker 02

  Fair enough.

• 12:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:28Speaker 02

  Fair enough. I love it. I love it. Can you think of a moment that was trying for you, that was a challenge?

• 12:37Speaker 03

  So there's been times, especially, you know, the press, when I started, I was 16, when I was first photographed and, and put in a newspaper. And there was times which now I don't, you know, I don't regret, but I, I did react in the moment and was annoyed. So I rang newspapers and, you know, I got in touch with, with the journalist that wrote the article. And I've just gone on the phone and said, and I don't think that's wrong, but would I do that now? Maybe I would stop and think about it first and, and then either react or, you know, it's gone by.

• 13:20Speaker 03

  And that's, it's stored in my mind. So if I come into contact with, maybe I, I might say something then.

• 13:29Speaker 03

  But other than that, I think I was quite, quite a good teenager.

• 13:34Speaker 02

  That's good.

• 13:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. And actually, I wouldn't not, I would, I would have expected that you were a good.

• 13:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:42Speaker 02

  Like, didn't get into trouble.

• 13:44Speaker 03

  No, I was good. Wayne, Wayne always says, yeah, I was a good dude, two shoes.

• 13:48Speaker 02

  Were you confident?

• 13:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was confident as a child, but I would say once I, I do think that confidence never got knocked, but I wasn't as, as confident as I was growing up, once I got into public eye. I think it struck me a bit. I think the core of it was is I, for, for years and years, people would always say, oh, you, she's only in the public eye because of Wayne. I own that. I was only, I am. But like, I'm to this day, no, I don't, I don't believe now I'm only in the public eye because of Wayne at this point in my life.

• 14:29Speaker 03

  But from the start of it, I was and I, there's nothing wrong with that. And, you know, I got brought into it. I didn't put myself in, in the public eye. And now I'll look back and think I've made the most of it.

• 14:44Speaker 02

  It begins with, as you said, it was your relationship with Wayne.

• 14:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:48Speaker 02

  Rooney, that brought you into the public eye. So how old were you? Was it 12 years old when you two met?

• 14:56Speaker 03

  So we knew each, our families knew each other. We grew up together. I am, my dad ran the local boxing gym with, with Wayne's uncle. We first started to get to know each other because of our like groups of friends when I would say around 12.

• 15:12Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 15:12Speaker 03

  And, and we would actually, you know, communicate and chat to each other, but not in a. I, he, he was always after me. He always wanted to date, but I was.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Since he was 12?

• 15:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. He always says he, he knew I was the one, but I was, I was a busy, like, obviously he was, he was busy with football and stuff. But I didn't go out and hang around on the streets as much because I would go to dance, I would go to drama. I would do my homework. He used to hang around outside my school. So we went to the all boys Catholic school. I went to the all girls and they were literally around the corner from each other. So we would hang around with a group of lads and wolf whistle as we come out and shout, gives a date. And in the summer, we wore pale lemon blouses.

• 16:05Speaker 03

  So they would have water guns outside school because once the blouse was wet, you could see through.

• 16:12Speaker 03

  Which is wrong now, but going back all them years ago, it was like, that's what they done. But I found him funny, charming, but yeah, he was, he was a, a typical boy. You know, he, he got into mischief and probably stayed, stays out later some nights than he should have. And his mum used to be calling him in and, but yeah, we, we got together when we were 16.

• 16:38Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 16:38Speaker 03

  I'd just finished my GCSEs and then I thought, oh, I'd give him that date that he's wanted for all that.

• 16:45Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 16:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:46Speaker 02

  All right. So, so now help me with this because from what I can see is that the moment that he saw you, he was, he was, he was in.

• 16:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:57Speaker 02

  The moment you saw him, you were not necessarily in.

• 16:59Speaker 03

  No.

• 17:00Speaker 02

  Right. So what was the moment that you became in?

• 17:04Speaker 03

  Once I'd come in, he would stay, stay outside our house and talk. And I think that, I think that won me over, actually getting to, to know him a bit more. But then I found him funny. I think his humour won me over. His cheekiness, being really confident as well. You know, he wasn't asking his friends, say, go and ask her for it. He'd just ask me. And yeah, he was, he was a character.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  What was the first date?

• 17:41Speaker 03

  So we went to the cinema. He, I, I, I was a bit nervous because he was nervous, like my family knew him. And I knew that I probably couldn't hide that the fact I was going on a, on a date. Because I'd have to walk down, meet him in my, you know, I knew that my mum and dad was, not that there was anything wrong. And I was 16, I could go on a date, but out of respect. And also probably so I could own it myself, so no one else would tell my parents before me. I actually asked, could I go on the date to my dad?

• 18:17Speaker 02

  You did?

• 18:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:17Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh.

• 18:18Speaker 03

  Which now I don't think a lot, like 16 year olds would ever ask. I was going to the cinema. I wasn't even going to like a, a bar or anything.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  Right.

• 18:27Speaker 03

  So I said, can I go to the cinema with Wayne? And my dad said, yeah, as long as he sits on the back row and you sit on the front row.

• 18:35Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 18:36Speaker 03

  Well, he was laughing.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 18:38Speaker 03

  Yeah. So we went, we went to cinema. We actually went with another couple who we were friends with. And we went to McDonald's on the way back and then walked home and that was it. Yeah.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  All right. So after that, that first date.

• 18:51Speaker 03

  It's funny now because 16 year olds seem a lot more older and are doing a lot more mature things than going to the cinema and going to McDonald's.

• 18:59Speaker 02

  Aren't they?

• 19:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  Aren't they? Aren't they?

• 19:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:01Speaker 02

  So then after that first date, what's your thought and impression?

• 19:07Speaker 03

  I think because he was so open and he was so out there, like he, he would just say it as it is. I actually knew a lot, a lot about him before I went on, on the date.

• 19:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 19:18Speaker 03

  So it wasn't like I got to, no, but it was probably that intimate space that I thought, do you know what? I actually quite like this and I'm gonna get, have another date. Yeah.

• 19:27Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 19:28Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 19:29Speaker 02

  All right. So now, what I find interesting is I have a, you know, I have lots of friends because I'm British.

• 19:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:35Speaker 02

  Colleen, I'm, I'm, I'm British.

• 19:36Speaker 03

  Good. I like to hear that. Yeah.

• 19:37Speaker 02

  You know, I did my, my life in the UK test.

• 19:40Speaker 03

  Oh, did you?

• 19:41Speaker 02

  I'm official.

• 19:41Speaker 03

  Oh, great.

• 19:42Speaker 02

  I can vote here in everything right now. Yeah. And it was interesting because I was talking to some friends of mine and I told them that you were, you were coming in. And you know what? Immediately, the first thing that came to mind was this photo.

• 19:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:57Speaker 02

  They remember this photo.

• 19:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:59Speaker 02

  So what was happening exactly right before this photo?

• 20:05Speaker 03

  I.

• 20:07Speaker 03

  Was at home and Wayne actually called to the house that morning.

• 20:12Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 20:13Speaker 03

  So I think this is the whole reason why this photograph took place.

• 20:17Speaker 02

  Ah, okay.

• 20:17Speaker 03

  So he had left some headphones at my house, but he was going away for football. So he called to the house that morning and collected the headphones and went. So I think the pap has followed him from his house to my house. And then just stayed and thought, let's. Obviously, they've, they must have been took because at the time, the press was so intrusive. They knew everything about it. They would dig deep. I left the house, didn't see anyone. I used to walk up this one road to school. And at the top of the road, there was, there used to be blocks of flats.

• 21:02Speaker 03

  And in the lay-by, there was a car. And as I'm coming closer, he had his car bonnet up. But above the bonnet, there was a camera. So obviously Wayne had been photographed by paparazzi before, but not, we wasn't, not in my company. In, you know, I'd seen it in the press or I just automatically knew that it was probably a paparazzi.

• 21:29Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 21:29Speaker 03

  And I mentioned it to a few of the girls in the common room. And that travels and got back to a teacher. So the teacher was like, I think you'd best phone your parents and just say, you know, a man, it's, it's not really right that a man's hanging around, taking photographs. We didn't go into panic, you know, we just said, let's see what comes of it. Um, we carried on with it. And then that weekend, I remember me nan used to phone every morning. And used to, so my nan owned a pub in Liverpool, my nan and grandad. And she was like, we used to call us on News of the World. Because she used to tell us everything, like what was going on. Because obviously in the pub, a lot of things happened, a lot of stories got told and a lot of gossip got spread.

• 22:14Speaker 03

  So she phoned this morning and she was like, ah, Colleen's all over the papers. She used to get the papers delivered to the pub for, for the people that went in there. We lived next door to a newsagent, so we went in and we bought the paper. Um, there it was.

• 22:28Speaker 02

  And there was that exact photo.

• 22:30Speaker 03

  Exact photograph. And it was quite big. Um, and then that was the start of it. After that, a lot more. And I always remember one day going in to the newsagent, not knowing that there was any, because there was no social media then, there was no, um, so you would have to see if, you know, in, in person. I always remember going in and it was a time we'd, it was Wayne had gone on his first England trip. So it was like a pre-trip before the tournament. Wayne's agent spoke to my parents and said, you know, this is the plan and, you know, if she's allowed to go, she, she can go.

• 23:08Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 23:09Speaker 03

  They agreed and said, yeah. But I had to fly out separately because I had an exam at school that I couldn't miss. So when the whole group flew out together, I had to go the next day. And, um, so I, I went to the airport and then I got met by a liaison from the England camp. They took me to the hotel and, and Wayne was there. I always remember Wayne saying, oh, this is the hotel, blah, blah, blah. See you later. So I was like, where are you going? And he went, I'm going to play golf. I was like, I've only just got here. I don't know no one. I don't. And he was like, oh, I've got the opportunity to play with Michael Owen and, um, I think it was Frank Lampard. I can't miss that opportunity. And he was gone.

• 23:53Speaker 03

  But now I think back, I, when I, at the time, I was like, that's so selfish, that's so. But he was a young boy. He was in the moment. He was excited. It was his first England camp. They were, you know, they were people he looked up to and wanted to. Obviously, he knew where he would get to spend time with me, but now I think, you know what? It, it was, and you know, it was, it was nice for him to go. He didn't know whether that would only be that one time. But it went on that he spent a lot of time with them. But there was a photograph from that trip and it was me in a bikini. And I always remember going in to the newsagent. And front page of one of the papers was this big photograph.

• 24:36Speaker 02

  Oh, my goodness.

• 24:37Speaker 03

  And I was like, why is that relevant to be front, front page? And I remember looking at the other stories around it, which were small at the top, which were so much more bigger and important to the world. And here's me not doing anything, sitting by a pool. And I, it made me think is what, you know, what is going on with the press and why that's not important? But it's not me doing that. You know, these people are creating this and.

• 25:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 25:08Speaker 03

  I might have to now start getting, getting used to it.

• 25:12Speaker 02

  Getting used to it. So what do you believe then the fascination with you was?

• 25:17Speaker 03

  It's a good question because I still don't know to this day. I, I, I question myself over this is why, you know, why are people, you know, why am I still he, here from that day to this day? And there is, you know, there's things that I can say, you know what? I believe I've stayed true. I've, you know, I've stayed true to myself. I believe I haven't changed. And that's one thing throughout my journey in the public eye. That I have, it's really opened my eyes is when people say, oh, she's changed or thinking. It's not that I've changed. People towards me have changed.

• 26:02Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 26:03Speaker 03

  They think, you know, when we, we are lucky for, you know, the things that we've got, but it all stems back. I'm grateful for what I've got.

• 26:13Speaker 02

  You know, with this, and I'll hold on to this, uh, because yeah, this is where it all started.

• 26:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:17Speaker 02

  It all started here is I, I, I, in preparation for you coming here, I gave a lot of thought, probably too much, to what the fascination was with you early, right? Because not every, um, not every, uh, girlfriend of a footballer at that point had this much attention.

• 26:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:44Speaker 02

  Do you believe class could have played a role in fascination?

• 26:50Speaker 03

  Yes, I do. I do now. I did, I, I was oblivious to it at the time.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 26:56Speaker 03

  Because you've got this sixteen year old boy coming from a working class background who's going out with a sixteen year old girl, both from the same area. He is then going to be on a wage that is like, you know, a big wage for that age. Obviously, it wasn't until he was seventeen, but how's that going to impact in his life? But I think obviously now, knowing the press, where's he gonna go wrong? Where, what's, what are we gonna get out of this? Boy who's been given all this money, what direction is he gonna go in?

• 27:37Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. So that's exactly what I landed on.

• 27:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:41Speaker 02

  I, my thought was that what better observation than to see two young people from a working class background get loads of money.

• 27:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:51Speaker 02

  Have social mobilization and then implode.

• 27:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:54Speaker 02

  Whether or not we want to accept it or not as, as public is that we cheer the rise of someone. And then we cheer the demise of that someone. When, when you reflect on that, does it feel like that was, that was almost, that was some of the pressure that was placed on you both?

• 28:13Speaker 03

  We were still in that world that we'd always been, you know, we, because we were still young, we still, you know, we were still living at home. Um, we, we did move out together young, which now I look back on and think, that was so young. But we had to grow up so fast because of that pressure. I would never say we felt the pressure. We, obviously we did at times. But we never let that affect us in a dramatic way.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 28:46Speaker 03

  And it's, I don't think it's not that we, we let it. We just didn't take it on board as much as probably the press wanted us to. Um, and yeah, when I, when I look back now, obviously they had a, a plan. And they had a, you know, they, they knew what they, they were doing. And I, I look back and think, you know what goes on, yes, because you've rode it out up until now. And we, you know, we've had highs, we've had lows and it's all been played out in, in, in the, the, the media. Not from our, us, but from people looking in.

• 29:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 29:23Speaker 03

  Um, I just think you've got to be a strong person. And again, have that strong support behind you to, to, to last in the public eye.

• 29:36Speaker 02

  Through it, yeah.

• 29:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, to get through it.

• 29:37Speaker 02

  So, so then as Wayne's career continued to go up and up and up and became globally known as a phenomenal footballer, phenomenal athlete. The limelight, if you will, it, it actually impacted your confidence.

• 29:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:53Speaker 02

  It shrunk, you said it shrunk you.

• 29:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:55Speaker 02

  How so?

• 29:56Speaker 03

  Um, I've always felt I should be where I am at the time. Whereas I do feel like as it got bigger and bigger, I got smaller and smaller. Like I felt like, oh, should I be here? Um, obviously I've been invited to that place. Obviously I've be, you know, I am in that. But I always had that in the back of my head that people are just thinking I'm here because of him. Which we're a couple, we're a team. So I should have embraced that and I probably should have owned it a bit more. Obviously it did affect confidence, but it didn't affect me as a, as a person.

• 30:36Speaker 03

  And I would say I probably would have enjoyed them moments more if I had that confidence that I had when I was a, a little girl.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  Okay. Could you take us to a moment where you?

• 30:52Speaker 02

  You know, you didn't feel like you should have been there.

• 30:55Speaker 03

  I would say there's been a lot of times where I've been with, you know, my management team and make up and we've been in a position where I've been like,

• 31:07Speaker 03

  you know, making decisions and thinking, should I go for that? And I've questioned myself before I've made that decision because I haven't got the confidence to just go straight for it and say, yeah, I, you know, I should be doing that campaign or I should be going to that event. I've always knew that, you know, come on, Colleen, you can do it. You can do it. It's fine. You should be there. But I've questioned myself too much and got myself a bit in a situation where I've not embraced it.

• 31:42Speaker 02

  As a 16 year old, you're confident and then it changes. So at what point does it change for you?

• 31:51Speaker 03

  When I got into the public eye, because there was a lot of opinions. There was a lot of talk of, you know, our relationship.

• 32:04Speaker 03

  People just commenting and as much as I would like to say, I don't, you know, I don't take it all on board. You can't not take it all on board, you know? You can choose to read, you know, not read things and not, you know, look at things. But when, you know, the talk's about and you get told things or it's, you know, it's hard not to let that affect you. And I would say I didn't let it affect me deep down. But there's been moments where I've got a bit anxious over, you know, thinking, oh, you know, people would say, oh, she's only with him because he's got money

• 32:47Speaker 03

  or she's only with him or why, why she stays with him. You know, comments like that, whereas in the moment I panicked and thought, oh, you know, why are people saying that? It's not until I've took myself away and I've dealt with it in my own head and thought, I don't know them. Why are they commenting on my situation?

• 33:10Speaker 02

  You know, it impacts, I would imagine, impacts family.

• 33:14Speaker 03

  Oh, 100% and they're the ones that don't get talked about, you know, the group around you. Like our parents have suffered because obviously as a parent, you want to protect your child. So what they've gone through emotionally over the years has been terrible. You know, both, our both sets of parents and they're still the ones living in the area that we grew up in. So they're still the ones hearing the, you know, the backlash or, you know, I'm not saying it's all bad because there's times where, you know, it's so supportive and, you know, when you're doing well and people want to congratulate and stuff.

• 33:57Speaker 03

  But there is times where, you know, they got hated on because they were our parents. And there's been times where my friends, my best friends have been written about in magazines. And this is going back to when, you know, they would, you know, talk about people's appearances and, you know, you know, it was just nasty.

• 34:22Speaker 02

  You know, I could see it.

• 34:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:23Speaker 02

  I could see it. You know, you're a protector of those that you love.

• 34:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:28Speaker 02

  I think early on, there was, was it a double page article?

• 34:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it was just squarely, what was, is it about, was it body image?

• 34:39Speaker 03

  Like a bit, who do they think they are? But targeting more me. And I remember just thinking, I am not just some robot in the public eye and you can write anything you want about me. I'm a daughter. I'm a sister. I'm someone's fiance. You know, people reading that who love me will get upset with that as well. And how dare you, you know, you do that. And obviously there was people, can't remember exactly, but they talked about other people in the article and I just thought, that's not on. That is not on.

• 35:24Speaker 03

  And I remember sitting there, we were in a rented house at the time. It was just as Wayne had joined Manchester United and I sat there for hours, just raging. And I got on the phone and I got in touch with, it took me a while, but I got in touch with the man that wrote it.

• 35:42Speaker 02

  And that, you did that on your own?

• 35:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:44Speaker 02

  You didn't talk, you, you just?

• 35:45Speaker 03

  Oh, no, I just went and Paul, my manager would like, that's not a book. Paul, he'd be like, why didn't you just come to me for this? And that is going to an example of what I said, you know, when I look back at my younger self, maybe I did do things on reaction a bit. Sometimes it was right, sometimes it was wrong, but I've learned from it now. That was what the outcome is, you know, maybe a step back and think about things a bit more before just reacting. But now I look back and think, good on you.

• 36:14Speaker 02

  Right.

• 36:15Speaker 03

  Good on you for doing that. And the first thing I said to him was, have you got children? Have you got a mom and dad? Have you got brothers and sisters? And he's like, oh, so, and you could see, and he was like, who is this? I said, you know, the article you've wrote in that newspaper, it's me. And we, it was, I just went and probably like just over said things. But I come off and I did feel a sense of, you know, I've said what I've got to say now. That probably won't change the whole, you know, media world. But at least I've actually said my piece to him.

• 36:57Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 36:57Speaker 03

  And he knows that I've got feelings.

• 36:59Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, absolutely.

• 37:03Speaker 02

  All right. So who wants a coffee?

• 37:06Speaker 03

  I'll take an iced latte, please.

• 37:07Speaker 02

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• 37:50Speaker 03

  Thank you, Paul.

• 37:52Speaker 02

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• 37:55Speaker 03

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• 37:57Speaker 02

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• 38:08Speaker 02

  Hey there. I just want to say thank you for choosing We Need to Talk.

• 38:14Speaker 00

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• 38:42Speaker 04

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• 39:12Speaker 02

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• 39:28Speaker 02

  When I look at also that time is it felt like there was an industry that was created around public figures and there was lots of money being made.

• 39:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:39Speaker 02

  So even with the paparazzi, you know, photos, five, 10, 15, 20,000 pounds and they're making significant money.

• 39:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:48Speaker 02

  You know, from, from these. This also seemed right around that time to give rise to this term wag. Which by the way, when I got to the UK, I had no idea what it meant. I kept hearing people say, I was like, what does that mean? All right. So, so, so I guess technically it is what? Wife?

• 40:07Speaker 03

  And girlfriend.

• 40:08Speaker 02

  And girlfriend.

• 40:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:10Speaker 02

  Right. And suggesting of a footballer.

• 40:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:14Speaker 02

  Do you see in history, do you see how, do you, do you remember when that term?

• 40:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was in, when we went to the World Cup in Germany.

• 40:24Speaker 02

  Yes. So yeah, can you describe that? Cause I think historically, that's a significant moment.

• 40:30Speaker 03

  Yeah. So it was the World Cup in Germany and it was the first time the FA, the Football Association, had put on a trip for families. So it has always been, you could go, but you, you plan your trip yourself.

• 40:49Speaker 02

  Ah, okay.

• 40:50Speaker 03

  And we was never as a, as a, as a group. We funded it ourselves as, but they would plan a trip that we could all book on to and be one as family and children and friends of the players. We made the most of the time we had there together and a lot of us did, turns up not knowing each other because England obviously is a, a team put together from a lot of other teams and we don't see each other week in, week out, if, as if you did with a club. And yeah, the press had a field day.

• 41:29Speaker 03

  They created this wag term because it was probably the one moment we were all in at the one place at the one time and.

• 41:38Speaker 02

  Was, was this, this photo, this icon, I think you were in the middle of the photo.

• 41:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. I, I think truly if, when you look up.

• 41:45Speaker 03

  I think it was a mag, it was in a magazine, a magazine that came up with the term, a front and it was that photograph that, yeah.

• 41:51Speaker 02

  Okay. Cause, cause whenever I see the term and you, like historically you go back, there's a photograph that I, I see.

• 41:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:59Speaker 02

  You're in the photograph. I know Victoria Beckham's in the photograph. Is it Cheryl?

• 42:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:05Speaker 03

  And yeah, and my best friend Claire.

• 42:07Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. Claire's in there. Claire's winning.

• 42:11Speaker 03

  She, yeah, she, she got in there.

• 42:13Speaker 02

  Claire's winning. And that photograph is the representation of, of wag, right? So when you think about that term, what's your opinion of it?

• 42:25Speaker 03

  I don't take it too seriously. What I've always said throughout is we are individuals. We are our own person. There's this perception of a wag that is obviously a partner or a, a wife of a footballer. But what they created was they are shopping all the time, they're lunch and drinking champagne. They are, they're living this.

• 42:50Speaker 02

  Party.

• 42:51Speaker 03

  Life off the back of their partner. And it annoyed me at the beginning because of that, because we're all on our own different journeys. We are, you know, when we come out, we, obviously we're in a support, a group there to support our husbands, but it's the same with the cricket team. It's the same with the golfers. Is that because football was classed as a working class sport? At the time I was thinking, you know, I just didn't like the fact that we were all put in this one ta, one category.

• 43:29Speaker 02

  Yes. You, you know, cause even reading accounts then, I saw one account where it was like, I don't know if they named anyone's name, but they said, you know, one of the wives, one of the girlfriends is spending 57,000 pounds or spent 57,000 pounds in an hour.

• 43:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 43:45Speaker 02

  I was thinking.

• 43:46Speaker 03

  I, we were in Baden-Baden in Germany. I don't think you could have spent that. It was a spa, it was a quiet spa. There was only an, ah, not even a handful of places that you would, you could go to dine, to drink, to, so we were all on top of each other, the press and us in this one small place. So they were just there in the moments of, so we would go days where we didn't do nothing, but obviously they would pick their moments and exaggerate them.

• 44:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 44:20Speaker 03

  And the boys didn't know anything because they were in their hotel, but they only know what we're doing because you're telling them.

• 44:26Speaker 02

  It's being reported on.

• 44:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:29Speaker 03

  So who's to blame there? It was, yeah, it was this moment that was just exaggerated.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  I have something to show you. All right. You ready for this?

• 44:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:39Speaker 02

  You ready? All right. This is a big one. All right. This, this is, so this is 2007.

• 44:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:47Speaker 02

  So this is a year after. Do you realize how popular you are?

• 44:51Speaker 03

  I always underestimate myself in that world.

• 44:56Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 44:57Speaker 03

  And I just think, I'm so grateful for the people that do support me and love me and are on board with me, but I just don't like to think it's.

• 45:06Speaker 02

  As, as big as it is.

• 45:08Speaker 03

  It's not that I don't like to think, I just don't put myself on that pedestal.

• 45:12Speaker 02

  At a certain point, it feels like you started to lean in a little bit. It's almost as if you said, okay, if you're going to do this, I'm going to participate.

• 45:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:22Speaker 02

  I'm going to begin to control my narrative.

• 45:25Speaker 03

  Paul, who's our manager, he called a meeting and it was with my parents and, and he was like, listen, I just want to give you an outlook of, it's going to be big. And if we're going to do anything, you've got to commit, you know, it's, you, you can't go back on it because you're going to open yourself up to the, to, to, you know, to, to the public. And it's very hard to do that and then draw a line and say, I don't want to be in anymore. The first one I did, we had this, this lady who actually, she, she, she was a journalist

• 46:08Speaker 03

  and she befriended my mom. So me and my mom went and done a, well, it was, it was me, but my mom came along with me and we'd done an interview. And when I look back on it now, you know, it was not bad, but it was probably not what I, I want, I, I would have done now. And that was a learning curve.

• 46:29Speaker 02

  Now, one aspect of taking the reins is what I find to be truly one of the most fascinating stories of pop culture and social media. And this is this Wagatha Christie.

• 46:43Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 46:44Speaker 02

  Story. And what I noticed was not only the respect, but I was talking to a friend of mine who's a makeup artist and she said, oh, Colleen Rooney, yeah, she switched on. And I think the level of appreciation for you as an individual increased in that moment. Do, do you feel that way?

• 47:05Speaker 03

  I do now.

• 47:06Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 47:07Speaker 03

  During that period, I, it was, I would put, I'd say it was probably the worst time of my, my life. Obviously I've had, you know, I've gone through grief, I've gone through relationship problems. I've bought, this was, I, I could take control of, of them situation, you know, obviously where grief is different, but I could channel that in a di, a different way, whereas this was out of my control.

• 47:35Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 47:36Speaker 03

  What I said from the beginning is what I believed in and what was true.

• 47:43Speaker 02

  Thinking that someone in your circle is disclosing private information, that would drive me mad.

• 47:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:51Speaker 02

  And what I'm curious about is, is what impact did that have on you and then the relationships you had? Because can you trust anyone?

• 48:00Speaker 03

  I would have friends saying, you wouldn't think it was me, would you? But it wasn't until after I, you'd done that post, that I, I seen the relief in people's faces and they came to me and was like, all along I've been thinking that, I hope that you've not thought that I've done this. And I, and I was like, I would never in a million years think it would be you.

• 48:26Speaker 02

  Right.

• 48:27Speaker 03

  And they've gone through this pain and kept it. And I've, I, I felt it. I was like, I can't believe that I've put you in that position by, you know, you thinking that.

• 48:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 48:41Speaker 03

  And it wasn't just the, a couple, it was a lot, it was quite a lot of people. And that made me sad. It made me sad that, you know, I've made people and they've, and not knowing because I've been getting on with, they've probably distanced themselves from me because they're thinking, oh, I don't want to hear anything. I don't want to hear you to tell me stuff because I don't want to hear to think then I'm going to go and tell someone.

• 49:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 49:06Speaker 03

  I, I did what I did and I got to know all that what people was feeling around that time. But yeah, it was, it was a horrible situation to be in and I, it totally stripped me of my personality.

• 49:23Speaker 02

  What was it about that situation that drained you?

• 49:25Speaker 03

  It went on for years and I did not want to go to court.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 49:31Speaker 03

  You know, I was thinking that is the worst place that you could put me because.

• 49:39Speaker 03

  I am then centre of attention. And it's, you know, I don't wanna be there. But then I've got the whole world looking on. It's like you are opening yourself up for everyone else to judge that situation.

• 49:54Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 49:55Speaker 03

  I don't wanna be there, I don't want that. I'd rather deal with in, you know, which I've always dealt with things behind, you know, in my own way and in small situations. Even though the world have known about things, but I've always dealt with it in my own way. Which this, it was that I was not in control of it.

• 50:16Speaker 02

  You have an Instagram account.

• 50:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:18Speaker 02

  Uh, that has a private setting on it. And you're posting things on this Instagram account. And some of it makes it to the press.

• 50:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:27Speaker 02

  And you're questioning how and who is sending this over to the press. So what you do is you then limit the account to just one person, who is Rebecca Vardy. And you then post, right? You post. And then those posts, that content ends up making its way to the press.

• 50:50Speaker 03

  It gets spoken about in the, yeah.

• 50:52Speaker 02

  In, in the press. And so you go on to, is it Instagram or Twitter?

• 50:56Speaker 03

  It was a social media platform.

• 50:58Speaker 02

  Social media platform. And you specifically say, this is what I've been doing. She comes out and says, no, it's not me. You have many people in the public who come and support you. But then there's many people in the public that come and support her. And there's this massive discussion that's happening back and forth. This is where the Wagatha Christie, from Agatha Christie, right? Is, is, is placed on you. And then Rebecca Vardy sues you.

• 51:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:28Speaker 02

  She then loses in court.

• 51:32Speaker 02

  And there's a defamation proceeding. And she now is obligated to, to, to pay you a certain amount of money.

• 51:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:42Speaker 02

  Okay, is, is that, that's the essence of what happens?

• 51:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, so the whole court case, there was many, you know, many hearings in between. So, you know, it was a long process. So we had a few hearings, you know, which went here way. And then there was, obviously the, the main one at the end was in the High Court. It's so weird because I've never, ever drove past the court again, just because I've just never gone on that journey. In the car this morning, I drove past. I was like, oh my goodness, like that, there it is. And, yeah, it was, I got this weird feeling that, oh, it takes me back to not, you know,

• 52:24Speaker 03

  a situation I never wants to be in, but I had to be, didn't enjoy it, well, obviously didn't enjoy it. But you know what? I stuck to it and I got the outcome that I, you know, I believe I, I deserved.

• 52:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:38Speaker 03

  And going back to the beginning, you know, there was so, it, it went crazy in the press. I didn't think it was, you know, people like, why, I, did you not know it was gonna go? No, no, I didn't think it would go that, that big. I just wanted to put a stop to what was happening. And the way I visioned it was that was the only way I could do it because I just, other ways I thought of doing it, I just didn't think it would, it would, it will work. And I thought, right, it's out there, done. And obviously I just didn't know what was to come after that. And it was a hell of a journey. And people argue the fact where, you know, you're putting stuff on social media anyway.

• 53:23Speaker 03

  So what's the big thing about it? The big thing to me was the stuff that got, you know, got leaked wasn't anything of extreme secrecy.

• 53:35Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 53:36Speaker 03

  It's the fact that I've let you into my circle. I am, even though I'm in the public eye, I have, I have, I've got a right to have some privacy. I've got a right to live my, my life within the public eye, you know? And that was a, a part of that, that life. And I had, I've got a public Instagram. So anything that I put on there, I share to the world. But I've got a private one where I will have a laugh and a joke with, you know, and I'll do small things that the world wouldn't be, well, they would be bothered about. But to me, it's a bit more personal, it's a bit more. And for someone to be in that group, knowing that the life I've lived in the public eye,

• 54:19Speaker 03

  where people have sold stories, where people have gone against us, where, and I've always been, you know, it's, it's not, it's, that's not right. It really got to me that I've let this person in this space. And what other space are you in? Where else in my life are you involved? Because now you're making me a person that I don't want to be. You're making me wary of people, of people that I've selected to be in my, my smaller world.

• 54:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 54:55Speaker 03

  A lot of people criticize that, you know, you've got so many, so many followers on there, surely it's gonna be out? No, no, it's not surely because I respect these people, they respect me, that's why we are, you know, we're friends. And I had put posts out prior to going public to say, whoever's doing this to me, stop it.

• 55:22Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 55:23Speaker 03

  I'd give warnings and it still continued. So that really got to me as well, is the fact that, you know, it's affecting me, but you're still doing it.

• 55:33Speaker 02

  You're still doing it, yes. When, when you reflect back, what do you believe that incident cost you?

• 55:40Speaker 03

  Presence with my family. That was the biggest thing I felt so guilty about, was not being present in the, you know? I was there physically, but mentally. And as a mom, as a wife, my mind was just on that, that court case. And could just question myself, like, do I really need to be in this situation? Should I go? And the fact is, I'm a strong person, but, you know, there's times where the do break and that's, I'm, I'm real. This broke me as, as a person. It stripped my personality.

• 56:25Speaker 03

  You know, there was moments where I should have been enjoying and I didn't enjoy them because it was just there at the back of my head. And every morning I would wake up and I'd say, come on, Colleen, get your act together. Don't think about it today. Just be present with what you're doing and enjoy, you know, the moments. And I couldn't.

• 56:45Speaker 02

  You couldn't?

• 56:46Speaker 03

  I couldn't.

• 56:46Speaker 02

  What, what were you in fear of happening?

• 56:49Speaker 03

  The biggest fear was putting on a public display in, in court. That is not, that's not me, that's not what, you know, I, I can do magazines, I can do this, I can, but in court, having the world looking on, which is a situation which I've always said could have, could have been dealt with in private. The thing, what I, I took out of it at the end was, which is why I did do that documentary, was people didn't know the full story. People were only picking pieces out of it, you know, what was reported. People, you know, didn't follow it from the beginning to the end. And obviously the press put their spin on it.

• 57:31Speaker 03

  I felt like a lot of people were, were saying, oh, you know, why is she taking, they've got too much money to, to mess around with taking it to court. They're like two schoolgirls in a playground fighting over, you know, over, over social media. And that effect, you know, that even, that got to me was, no, this is, it's, it's my, it's my feelings, it's my, my private world that, that's got me through this journey so far, being in the public eye. Is, is not private anymore.

• 58:13Speaker 03

  And that person has, has affected, you know, it's, well, obviously it is now, but at the time, I was that, you know, in the process of, of finding out who it was, that's what shattered me. But the whole court case, it unsettled our home. You know, I was emotional, I was ratty, I was impatient. I was so annoyed with myself that I let that happen. But I, I couldn't, I couldn't control it.

• 58:43Speaker 02

  I can see how much you value your circle.

• 58:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:47Speaker 02

  So to have that threatened, I can understand the stress and the emotion that comes from it. I'm curious though, since the case, has Rebecca reached out to you?

• 58:59Speaker 03

  No.

• 59:02Speaker 03

  Um, you know, it's, I have said this before. I didn't so, we didn't socialize. We, you know, we were acquaintance because we were both married to partners and we, they played for England together. But, you know, the thing is, is in the first place, why was she in that group? And maybe that's a moment where I should have questioned myself, why was she in that group of them people? Because, and maybe that's why I did let it down, because I, I didn't, I didn't socialize.

• 59:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, cause, cause you knew, cause you knew.

• 59:45Speaker 03

  No, it wasn't because of me.

• 59:46Speaker 02

  Or not cause you knew, but.

• 59:47Speaker 03

  It was because we just didn't, we wasn't, we had things in common and we, but we wasn't friends where we would meet up for a cup of tea or we were brought together because of our husbands' jobs. But we were never, we never had a friendship.

• 1:00:04Speaker 02

  Now, when you think back, is there anything you would have done differently?

• 1:00:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, I would have got the post looked over by a lawyer first before I posted it.

• 1:00:17Speaker 03

  Because it was them words that got me to court. If maybe if a reword is it differently.

• 1:00:21Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:00:22Speaker 03

  I wouldn't have been there.

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  Go to over there. All right, fair. That's fair. That's fair.

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

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• 1:01:31Speaker 02

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• 1:02:40Speaker 02

  Just a heads up, this next section includes discussion of baby loss. If this is a difficult topic for you, please watch with care.

• 1:02:49Speaker 02

  Can we talk about motherhood?

• 1:02:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:52Speaker 02

  One thing I didn't realize when, until I was doing the research for you coming in, is unfortunately you've gone through a few miscarriages. That's something that my wife and I also share in common. It's interesting because I think back to how hard your parents fought to have you here.

• 1:03:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:12Speaker 02

  And you knew that story. Did that almost exacerbate the weight and the pain from the miscarriages?

• 1:03:20Speaker 03

  So I had a miscarriage before I had Kai. So the first pregnancy was a miscarriage. And that was the first thought that came into my head when it happened was, will I be able to have children? Will I be able to carry a child? The one thing that was, I took positive out of it was my mom never conceived. She never actually, you know, she, she never got pregnant for that seven years.

• 1:03:50Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:03:51Speaker 03

  So my mom said that's one step further than what I ever got in that seven years. So that, to me, you know, was that little bit of a positive to take on board. But obviously, it's a situation that you would not want anyone to be in. It was, it was hard, but the one thing I've always spoken about is I, Wayne found it really hard. Probably he was more affected by it than I was.

• 1:04:28Speaker 03

  And I always remember him saying, I do feel it too, because it was, you know, it's our baby. No one really thinks about the partners that, that more, you know, they do, but it's always about the woman and them losing the baby and, you know, support. And whereas obviously, it's, it's, it's both of the parents. And we were supported, you know, by our friends and family, but we never, ever put it in the public eye until years later when I have spoke about it. And it's, that's not because we were afraid of talking about it or we were, it just, it's never happened and we've never, it's never come up in, in our, you know, our conversations

• 1:05:13Speaker 03

  that we've had in the public eye. So, yeah, I've had, I had, I've had two, but the second one, obviously, you grieve and it's, but I knew I had children. But the two miscarriages, it always does play in the back of my mind was, were they girls? Were they female? Am I, am I not able to carry girls? And that, I do wonder that, but they, they don't investigate until you have three.

• 1:05:43Speaker 02

  One thing that I, that I now am very curious about in terms of your motherhood is you protect your inner circle. This is everything to you. But now you're embarking on a massive show on Disney.

• 1:05:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:59Speaker 02

  Right, the real Roonies.

• 1:06:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:01Speaker 02

  And so what I'm curious about is why, given this layer of privacy and protection and intimacy that you've maintained throughout the entirety of your life, especially given the age of your boys?

• 1:06:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. So going back to when Kai was born, so our first, he's 16 now, we took on the decision to try and keep him out of, of the public eye. At the end of the season, the players parade around the fans to say thanks for, you know, support and this for the season. And they take their families and children on the pitch. So the lawyer said to us, if you take Kai on the pitch, that all goes down the drain. So we took the decision to say, scrap it. Saves us a bit of money as well, because we wasn't paying the, for the legal. Going back years ago, I've always been like, oh, I could never do one of them at homes

• 1:07:01Speaker 03

  or, you know, a documentary or, but times changed and the world's changed. So as now, a lot of things are documented through social media. Lives are shown every day. You know, years ago, you didn't know anything unless you would read about it or you would get told about it. Whereas everything now is, is on video, on camera, and people are getting followed about on YouTube and this and that. So I feel like it's, it's more normal. So when we agreed to do it with Disney, I said, I don't want it to be just at a home, you know, where it's just us getting followed about.

• 1:07:46Speaker 03

  I want there to be a purpose about it, you know, I want there to be moments in, in, you know, throughout the year where, you know, you, you will be there filming and where. So Wayne had just come out of management. He had been sacked from the club he was at at the time. So he had the decision of what, what was he going to do next?

• 1:08:09Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:08:09Speaker 03

  So they followed the journey through that. I had then took the decision, you know, I, I had been, had obviously had the court case and then went into the jungle. If I hadn't done the court case, would I have gone into the jungle? I don't know. But I do feel like the, the support and respect that you touched on before that I got from the court case, I think that was the drive for me to go into the jungle. A lot of people hadn't seen me for me. You know, I don't know how they're going to react to me. My conversations in there, are they going to be for or against it? It's like, so you do have to go in and just think. I don't know what the outcome's gonna be.

• 1:08:52Speaker 03

  Mine was, I couldn't have asked for anything better. And I think that then gave me the drive to agree to do.

• 1:09:01Speaker 02

  To do this. And even on The Jungle, just to note is, is you came in second. And I saw it was, I think it was forty-four percent of the vote, which is significant.

• 1:09:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:12Speaker 02

  You know, and what I read in terms of the analysis, the nerdy part of it.

• 1:09:17Speaker 03

  Actually like this.

• 1:09:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. You like data, I see it. You like data. Was that the public, and this is interesting because it connects with the trailer for the show, where you're, I think Wayne asked your son, who's more popular? You or Wayne? And what does your son say?

• 1:09:37Speaker 03

  My dad.

• 1:09:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, but I would.

• 1:09:40Speaker 03

  But then my second, my second son, that does say, she is getting this. Yeah.

• 1:09:47Speaker 02

  Exactly. Because what that did is it not only boosted your popularity, but your likability. People resonated with you. As a result of that, it made it easier for you to do this series.

• 1:10:05Speaker 03

  But also it was the feedback of, you know, the public was, and this goes back to the first, when Wayne's on his documentary, do was snippets of family life, which were, you know, real situations. And that's the things that the public took away from them documentaries was, we wanna, you know, we could have sat there and watched your wedding DVD, or, you know, why didn't we see more of, you know, you as a family, you as a home? And that continued throughout. And like in The Jungle, when the kids came in.

• 1:10:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:10:40Speaker 03

  That was like the biggest clip on, you know, on my Instagram, that people re-watch because it was a genuine moment for a family, you know, it was, they, people actually love seeing them, real moments that they can then identify in their lives. And even, you know, in the past, I've done stuff where I've just laid the uniforms out for the next day and people are, oh, I do that? I don't know, yeah, so, you know, just the basic things that you think, oh, it's just every day. Because I said before, people think we live in this.

• 1:11:16Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:11:17Speaker 03

  Not real world.

• 1:11:19Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:11:19Speaker 03

  We are living a real life, we're, you know, we're lucky to have the other things, which, you know, it's not all rosy at times because we do, you know, it is intrusive, it is, there's, you know, downsides to that. But people take them real things away. And that's why I think we have agreed to do this, this series.

• 1:11:39Speaker 02

  Episode one, you drop a shocker in there, but I think this is what a lot of people are going to tune in to. So in it, you say, there are times where I think the answer is to see what it would be like if we're separated. What do you believe they need to know, if anything, about the decisions that you make about your marriage?

• 1:12:02Speaker 03

  That they are my decisions and it's my marriage. It's not for anyone else to judge. I'm the one living in the situation, in that, you know, that relationship. What right have they got to judge me when I am living it? They're not living with me, they don't know the situation. So I'm open to, yeah, people have opinions, people have, but you let them be and let them work it out for themselves. And if they're happy, good on them. And then within, you know, this circle that I've got, if there is, you know, I'm just thinking, if there was signs of, hmm, it's not right, they, you know, let them step in.

• 1:12:45Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:12:46Speaker 03

  And let them give me or Wayne advice, or, you know, try and guide us to where, you know, like to, to make the right decisions. I don't think it's anyone else's, anyone else's business.

• 1:13:04Speaker 02

  It's interesting. My marriage, I think, is the same in terms of how we view information, right? So we will allow anyone to say anything.

• 1:13:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:16Speaker 02

  But it's only our close circle that we will allow critique from.

• 1:13:21Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:13:22Speaker 02

  You know, everyone else, it's just opinions.

• 1:13:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:24Speaker 02

  But the critique comes from the, from the inner circle. When I was growing up, I remember something that my mother always told me, stayed with me, and she said, marriage is forever.

• 1:13:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:35Speaker 02

  And that's how I approached it. And I got married when I was twenty-five. And I approached it like, this is forever. No matter what I do, no matter what my partner does, this is forever. But then over the years, I've now pivoted to, it doesn't have to be forever.

• 1:13:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:13:54Speaker 02

  Right? And because it doesn't have to be forever, it demands more of us.

• 1:13:59Speaker 03

  Yeah. I'm a Catholic and that is a Catholic way of, you know, you're married for life and you commit to each other and through, through, you know, through everything in life, you're together. And yeah, you are together, but there's situations that happen in a marriage that break that marriage. And people, why live an unhappy marriage when you don't have to? And, you know, obviously you take that, but it comes to a point where work at it, if you can work through it, great. If you can't, there's no, there's, you know, it's, you're both unhappy. So I am open to that whole marriage world where, you know, there's, even though you've

• 1:14:44Speaker 03

  took that vow, it doesn't have to be forever. You want it to be forever.

• 1:14:50Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:14:50Speaker 03

  But it doesn't always work out. And there has been times in my life where I've got to a point where I think, is this, is this working or can we work at it? And we've never, we've never gone to couples counselling, we've never done.

• 1:15:06Speaker 02

  Really, never, never been couples counselling?

• 1:15:08Speaker 03

  No, never. We've always done it together. And maybe that's been the longer periods of times where we've been a bit, you know, and, you know, I've not had a plain sailing marriage. And still to this, you know, we are at a really good point in our lives now. And I do think that is because we, we know our roles in the households now. That might sound petty to people, but Wayne coming out of, of management, out of the football, even though he's doing TV and it's a whole new world.

• 1:15:42Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:15:42Speaker 03

  He's been in this world since he's been a child, where that's all he's known. And it's very regimental, it's very, it's, it's just, it's just the norm to him. He was not always at home, like because he would travel and he'd be in hotels. So I pretty much live my life when he was working as, if he's there, it's a bonus. So he would drop in, so I would organise our life with Wayne out of it. But then when he was there, it was great because, you know, he just got added on. So that's where, like, my parents have been a big part of my family life because they

• 1:16:26Speaker 03

  are my next, you know, they're my, they're my parents, I'm really close to them. They've helped in them situations where I've needed another helping hand. So they've literally brought my kids up with me, which has been great. But now, obviously Wayne's back, he's now stepping in full time.

• 1:16:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:16:45Speaker 03

  He's never been there before. So when that happened was when the show started.

• 1:16:49Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:16:50Speaker 03

  And it was difficult because there was things where I was getting up to do the school run every day, he was still in bed. He would, you know, usually he was getting up, going to work, doing, obviously there was days where he needs to get up and go to work, but because that was, he never, never done that.

• 1:17:09Speaker 02

  I see it.

• 1:17:10Speaker 03

  And to me, that was annoying because, you know, you are part of our, our team, our family. Why are you not, why am I asking you to do a school run? And don't get me wrong, I'm saying, I'm not saying that he's never done that.

• 1:17:24Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:17:25Speaker 03

  But it was never the norm to him because he's always been out of that situation.

• 1:17:32Speaker 02

  The way you described it is eloquent because this makes this surprise for you.

• 1:17:39Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:17:39Speaker 02

  Even sweeter. You ready for this?

• 1:17:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:17:42Speaker 02

  Our Colin, you trust me enough to close your eyes?

• 1:17:44Speaker 03

  Good.

• 1:17:44Speaker 02

  Oh, you're closing your eyes? Okay, here it goes.

• 1:17:50Speaker 02

  It's a letter.

• 1:17:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:52Speaker 02

  Could you read that out loud for us, please?

• 1:17:55Speaker 03

  I feel like I'm back in the jungle again, getting a letter from who.

• 1:18:00Speaker 03

  Colleen, this is just a reminder to you because I know I don't always tell you. I am so proud of what you have achieved in the last couple of years since going back to work. I know it can be tough at times, struggling, everything, but you have done it brilliantly. More importantly, I am so grateful and appreciative of everything you do for me and the boys. You deal with a lot to make sure everything is done and in place for us all, which makes our lives so much easier. I love you. We all love you.

• 1:18:32Speaker 03

  I am getting like a little bit emotional there. But yet, that is, it's so nice. And I said this, and I really say it, when you know you are appreciated. And I know I am, but I don't always get told that. And I do do, like, my life is my family. And I think that goes down to not being always confident in situations where I'm on the front foot, because I always put myself at the back of the line, because they always put them in front of me. And sometimes, just like little reminds us like that, where you think,

• 1:19:14Speaker 03

  you know, you should embrace them moments and you do deserve to be in that situation. So yeah, thanks, Wayne.

• 1:19:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think I'm gonna give this to you.

• 1:19:24Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:19:24Speaker 02

  But I think we should spend just a moment in this, because I can see, given what Wayne has said, given how incredible your boys are, how they live life, given the story that you've presented so far, how much of a protector you are of your loved ones, and how it does feel like you've placed all of these people around you before you, but yet they love and appreciate you.

• 1:19:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:55Speaker 02

  Right? And so to hear him say it, to see, have him write it, what is so special to you about that?

• 1:20:06Speaker 03

  You know, in the house, you know, you can say I love you. I am, you know, like, I put the kids to bed at night and say I love you, and they'll say I love you back. And me and Wayne will, you know, put the phone down and say I love you. But I think in situations like this, where you've had to say to him, you write something to present to Colleen, you just stop and it sinks in. Whereas I think that them everyday love yous, you don't stop. You're busy, you're getting on with life. And I think these moments are special because you do take it on board and it makes you think about it.

• 1:20:47Speaker 03

  And, you know, I appreciate it, even though they're saying I appreciate you. I appreciate them saying that.

• 1:20:55Speaker 02

  Something I have been thinking about ever since you sat down is that in the jungle, I distinctly remember you saying that you are a proud mother, a proud wife, a proud daughter, but rarely are you proud of yourself. So as you sit here, right now, what are you most proud of?

• 1:21:19Speaker 03

  Probably the person I am today. I'm not perfect. And I think one thing I am proud of is, and I keep going back to this, is having this hub around me, which I've kept together. And I do believe that I am a, I am one of the centre people of that hub. I'm proud of, I'm proud to keep going, you know, in life.

• 1:21:59Speaker 03

  There's moments where I probably could, you know, ended things and gave up and, but sitting here today, I think, you know, I've gone through a lot. I've kept going and I've stayed strong, but I've stayed true to myself. And that is one thing that I always say to my kids is, stay true to yourself, don't forget who you are, where you've come from. And that, to me, and saying that now, my kids, my kids have been, you know, they've grown up in a privileged household, but we still remind them of our upbringing, our family.

• 1:22:39Speaker 03

  You know, they're surrounded by that, because, you know, all our family and friends are still there. It's just to keep them grounded. And that's one thing in life I'm appreciative of our families is that they've kept us grounded. And we can be put in a room where people from all walks of life, and we can still hold our own, you know, we can have. Because we've been open to so many situations in our life. Some of them have, you know, been unbelievable situations, some maybe not so good. But I feel like that's made us stronger.

• 1:23:16Speaker 02

  You know what I find most interesting about these conversations that I have the privilege of having with so many incredible people such as yourself is that they typically end the same way they start. We started talking about how incredible that hub, the inner circle that you brought with you here today is. And look at where we've naturally landed right here. And what it tells me is how true to you that is, how important it is to you. And throughout this entire conversation, you've illustrated how that's the one thing that you've protected,

• 1:24:00Speaker 02

  is your inner circle, and how important it is to you. It's everything to you. I have a photo, can I?

• 1:24:06Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah, yeah.

• 1:24:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I have lots of photos. So it's like, was this at your wedding?

• 1:24:11Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 1:24:11Speaker 02

  Okay, you wanna describe what's happening there?

• 1:24:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, so Rosie was a flower girl at my wedding. Rosie is my sister, but unfortunately, she's passed now. And she was, she was one of the foster children that came to us. At the time, when she came to us, she was 18 months. My mum, obviously, has had a lot of experience with children with disabilities. She wasn't a nurse, but she'd been around a lot of children. And she said, I think it's, there's something more to this. So my mum took on board and, you know, went to doctors and read up and investigated herself about the, what, you know, Rosie was doing and her development.

• 1:24:57Speaker 03

  And in the end, she got diagnosed with a genetic disorder called Rhett syndrome.

• 1:25:03Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:25:04Speaker 03

  So over the years, you just deteriorate. She needed like 24/7 care. And it was, it was a lot for my mum and dad to take on. Obviously, at the point when she came to foster care, we, we just fell in love with her. And she was, you know, she was like a ray of sunshine. She done a talking with her eyes, she had these big, massive eyes. And you could, you know, she, she had so much joy and energy that she gave off that people were just, she just drew people in.

• 1:25:46Speaker 03

  Most winters, she would go into hospital for a lengthy period of time because she would get a chest infection, but then couldn't fight it off and her body wasn't strong enough. So she would have to be in hospital. And the amount of Christmases we spent in the hospital.

• 1:26:03Speaker 03

  And she was, she was immediately not just part of our family, but part of our wider family. And that's what I love thinking back is, as she brought a lot of people together, but also she made people realise how lucky they was in life. She was this little girl who had so many problems, but she was happy. But when she was 14, she'd been in hospital for a lengthy time, but we didn't know it was, it was gonna come to the end. And we were actually on holiday at the time. It was me, I had Kai, he was only a toddler,

• 1:26:47Speaker 03

  my two brothers and their partners. Wayne wasn't there because he was at football. It was over the Christmas period, so it was a busy time for the football. So we got a phone call one day, and it was my auntie, I'd phoned and said, I think you need to come home. So we got on the next flight. And that flight, an eight-hour flight, we were in the Caribbean, was, it was just, I can't explain it because you had so many emotions. We had no phone. We always say she held on till we got back. She was, she wouldn't have wanted to go without us being there. And then the hospital said, there's not much more we can do.

• 1:27:31Speaker 03

  So I think it's time you go home. And I always remember, I was always the strong one. So I was not like, I didn't let emotion out. And I think that was because I wanted to be strong for my mum and dad and my brothers and Wayne. And my, my dad left the hospital with my brothers and Wayne, and I travelled in the ambulance with my mum and Rosie. We went home and it was like, that last bit of personal girly time we had as, you know, my mum and Rosie. So she was in the house and we had one last sleepover.

• 1:28:12Speaker 03

  So we took her upstairs into my, it was my brother's room at the time. And he had the most space on the floor. So my mum and dad stayed in the bed with her. And we all put, laid duvets all on the floor. So we were all in the one room, we lit candles, we had nice music on. And there was my two brothers, their partners, me, Wayne and Kai. So he was only a toddler, but he was part of our family. He was, we were not gonna let him be, he didn't know what was going on at the time. But we were all together as one and...

• 1:28:57Speaker 03

  We, I just, I just remember me mum like nursing it. And we wasn't, you know, we wasn't emotional wrecks. We knew what was, what was gonna come. But the moment it hadn't hit us, yeah, we woke to Wayne's voice saying, she's gone. It was heartbreaking and I would say I did step up as, I was pregnant with my second son Clay at the time.

• 1:29:22Speaker 02

  Good.

• 1:29:23Speaker 03

  And I don't think I grieved until a later stage in life. More so, I probably grieved in moments that I was, I was going through emotions and I then grieved at the same time. I'd talk about her freely, but on a one to one with like my parents and that, I didn't always talk about, I found it hard because I know how emotional they was. And but I think we're in our family. It's like she's, her memory is still alive.

• 1:29:56Speaker 02

  You, you know what's so beautiful about you sharing Rosie's story is now her story continues.

• 1:30:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:03Speaker 02

  With everyone who just watched that. Think about that.

• 1:30:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:30:07Speaker 02

  We, we've touched on all, I think all, all the beats.

• 1:30:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:30:14Speaker 02

  Let me give you this. This is the last question. Everyone gets this. And that is, is if you think about all the incredible conversations you've had throughout your life, which one stands as the most memorable? Who was it with and, and what did you learn?

• 1:30:29Speaker 03

  I would probably say, I'd probably say with Wayne.

• 1:30:35Speaker 03

  And, you know, he's been through some low points in his life. And he's had, it's not just one conversation, but he's, he's said these words to me a number of times is, he wouldn't be where he is if it wasn't for me. And that's not bigging myself up, but that's me being strong for him. And in them, you know, in them moments, it then makes me think of, I am, you know, it's, it's, I am making, even though I put myself on the back burner sometimes, I'm

• 1:31:20Speaker 03

  doing the right thing because I'm helping others as well. And they were moments where I, I needed to help. And sometimes the moments where you don't know you're helping, but you're just being there for someone.

• 1:31:36Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:31:37Speaker 03

  Is, it can be, you know, a massive moment in someone's life.

• 1:31:41Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. You know what's really impressed me about you today, Colleen Rooney?

• 1:31:49Speaker 02

  Is how much of a rock you are for the people you love. You are relentlessly there for them. The one reminder in that is to remember you have to be the rock for yourself.

• 1:32:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:07Speaker 02

  As well. And that's my only ask.

• 1:32:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:10Speaker 02

  In this. It's interesting, I, you know, I, I look at these conversations and I look at how much people talk about others versus themselves. You talk about others.

• 1:32:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:25Speaker 02

  You talk about the care and the love for others. And what I would love to see you do as you walk out into this next chapter of life is to love on yourself.

• 1:32:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:41Speaker 02

  Give yourself grace. You have given so much of yourself to everyone else on this journey. Now is the time. You're Colleen Rooney.

• 1:32:54Speaker 03

  See that, I cringe about.

• 1:32:57Speaker 03

  I cringe.

• 1:32:59Speaker 02

  See, but, no, no, but, but you, you have to look at yourself and say, no, I deserve all of this. There?

• 1:33:07Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:33:08Speaker 02

  There. I enjoyed this conversation.

• 1:33:11Speaker 03

  So'd say, thank you.

• 1:33:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank you so much.

• 1:33:16Speaker 02

  What a rock. She said she designed her life with her children with Wayne as the bonus, but not as, as, as the centerpiece because of the work that he was doing. So you could see how she was the centerpiece and has been the centerpiece. And from what I know of people who are typically play that role, they don't give themselves enough. They don't place themselves on the stage that they have been building their entire life. And that's something that, that I would love to see her do. I'd, I'd love to see her just love on herself a little bit more because she deserves it.

• 1:34:00Speaker 02

  Something that I have, that I, I fully believe in, in terms of partnership, romantic partnership, is as long as there is effort, there's interest. So you can have a partner who screws up royally, but if they own it and they make efforts towards repairing it, that's a partner that you could work with. And I feel like that's exactly what Colleen was demonstrating, is that she is in a partnership where you have two people who are continually making effort, which means there's interest, which means there's love.

• 1:34:39Speaker 03

  The girl that I was before my father passed is dead. That girl will never come back.

• 1:34:51Speaker 03

  The night before the Osbournes launch, my mum said, we just made the biggest mistake of our lives. I woke up the next day and I was literally the most famous 16 year old in the world. All of the fat jabs came in. I went from thinking that there was nothing wrong with me to having an incredible amount of insecurity.

• 1:35:09Speaker 02

  You and your mother went to the Brits. If you look at the comments.

• 1:35:13Speaker 03

  I got assassinated over something that should have been about my dad and his legacy. I don't really recall anyone standing up for me. And I'll be honest with you, even to my own family, I never did drugs because I wanted a party. I just didn't want to feel the pain.

• 1:35:27Speaker 02

  The pain of what?

• 1:35:28Speaker 03

  Nothing took me out like losing my dad. I started drinking again. I lost not just my father, but my hero. I truly believed that my dad was slowly preparing me for it. Three days later, he was gone.

• 1:35:42Speaker 02

  What are you discovering about yourself?

• 1:35:43Speaker 03

  I'm good enough on my own. I don't need to just be as Osbourne's daughter. I am so sick of everyone else controlling the narrative of me. I get to say who I am, you don't.

• 1:35:52Speaker 02

  I want to show you this.

• 1:35:55Speaker 03

  You asshole.

• 1:35:56Speaker 02

  And of course you would call me an asshole.

• 1:36:03Speaker 01

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• 1:36:33Speaker 05

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