Introducing Tesla Roadster... Again

In this episode we've got the team's final thoughts on the iPhone Duo after living with it for a week, we finally get to cover the Tesla Roadster event, and we briefly go over the Porsche Mission S. Links: MKBHD: iPhone Duo Review MKBHD: Tesla Roadster Thoughts Porsche: Mission S This episode brought to you by: Charles Schwab: https://www.schwab.com/oninvesting Framer: https://www.framer.com/wave Jira: https://www.jira.com Follow us on socials: Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin Waveform Threads: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Waveform Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/waveformpodcast/?hl=en Waveform TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Intro/Outro music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Andrew Manganelli?

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, host Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's Chief Investment Strategist, and Colin Martin, Head of Fixed Income Research and Strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring your fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting, and what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episodes and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  What if managing company spend took less managing? Introducing Amex Corporate, one intelligent platform connecting cards, expenses, and payments, so you can keep work moving. Built to simplify, designed to scale. This is Amex Corporate. Get started at go.amex slash Amex Corporate. Terms apply.

• 1:00David Imel?

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. So your work is scattered, a thread here, a DM there, docs everywhere, and now it's not just your team hunting for context, your AI agents need it too. Jira taps Atlassian's teamwork graph to bring that context together across Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more, and makes it easy to share it with the agents that you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot. Assign them work directly, or connect your agents through MCP. The result? Less token waste, more accuracy, and more time moving work forward. Learn more at jira.com. That's spelled J-I-R-A dot com. Like, they have this metal key that actually sticks into the car and turns, which they got rid of in the 9/11.

• 1:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 1:39David Imel?

  They have a lot of things like-

• 1:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, so it's a key?

• 1:42David Imel?

  Well, it's not shaped like a key. It's the key fob.

• 1:45Andrew Manganelli?

  You just described a regular-

• 1:47David Imel?

  Geez, I realize what I'm doing. I realize what I'm doing.

• 1:56David Imel?

  Yo, what is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marquez.

• 2:01Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm Andrew.

• 2:02David Imel?

  I'm David. Over at the producer table today, Ellis and Mariah holding it down, and we got a doozy. A duo. I tried.

• 2:11Andrew Manganelli?

  I can't believe, I typed it, you read it, I appreciate you going for it.

• 2:15David Imel?

  We got a doozy today, mainly because there's two gigantic things that happened in the last week, right, right after, that's funny, right after we shot last week's podcast, was a massive car event, obviously the Porsche Mission S event. Oh, and sorry, also, I think, wasn't there another one? Oh, yeah, the Tesla Roadster. Camry event. The Tesla Roadster, and there was, the embargo for Surface Duo reviews is up, so we have been using Surface. I said Surface Duo.

• 2:43Andrew Manganelli?

  I thought you were, I thought you were making another joke.

• 2:45David Imel?

  I should have leaned into it. I should have leaned into it. My brain is, anyway. iPhone Duo reviews are out, we've been using it. David, you have yours, it's the blue one. The blue one. White one, the colors are- Here's mine. Forgot the names of the colors. They're like light sky and- Star white? Dark sky, basically. Yeah, and we have, we have our thoughts. The reviews are out, and we can talk all about what it's been like to use them and daily these things. But first, did they even test this?

• 3:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Mariah has one, she said, potentially.

• 3:14Speaker 03

  I have a minor complaint, if anyone has a more major complaint.

• 3:17Andrew Manganelli?

  This whole thing is minor complaints.

• 3:19David Imel?

  We've been getting bugs fixed for weeks now, this is great. That's right.

• 3:22Speaker 03

  I don't know what I did, and, so, I don't know if I enabled developer settings or something in my Samsung, and it involuntarily enrolled me in the new beta software for one UI. And what that means is that I got one voicemail three weeks ago, and that means I got a notification, I have a voicemail. Every time I dismiss it, it comes back within five minutes. So I have a perpetual notification that I have a voicemail when I do not.

• 3:48David Imel?

  I've had this. I've had this exact issue, and it is a Samsung issue. The voicemail notification never goes away. I now, I'm trying to remember how I got rid of it, because I think there was something about, I think you have to install like the visual voicemail app, and then like, like read it in that app, and then it goes away or something?

• 4:06Speaker 03

  See, that would make sense. See, I didn't do anything. And then this morning, my phone said, oh, it's time to update, and you don't have to be in the beta anymore. And I'm like, that's what I want. And we're so back.

• 4:17David Imel?

  No, I've definitely had that issue, and the fact that it's still an issue suggests that either no one's tested, or no one cares.

• 4:24Andrew Manganelli?

  I think-

• 4:24Speaker 03

  No one cares.

• 4:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Notifications that don't go away might be one of the most annoying bugs in any software.

• 4:31David Imel?

  Definitely.

• 4:31Andrew Manganelli?

  It happens in Slack all the time, where there's like, just the dot on my, like, doc on my computer, or like, it will say somewhere in the sidebar, like the icons that there's something, and I'll click everything.

• 4:44David Imel?

  That's another thing. I think that's a Slack thing. All the time, the Slack, like, the Slack app will have a little badge next to it with notifications, and I'll go, oh, I thought I read all of them. And then I'll open it, and Slack will be like, you don't have anything. And then I'll close it, and it's gone.

• 4:58Speaker 03

  That's a recent issue, I feel like.

• 5:00Andrew Manganelli?

  No, Slack always has issues.

• 5:01David Imel?

  Slack's been doing that for a long-

• 5:02Speaker 03

  Really? Maybe my phone just started doing that.

• 5:04Speaker 04

  Slack will be like, yo, you have an unread mention, and I'll go, and it's something that I've actively replied to, like multiple, like, how is this unread?

• 5:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, you replied, you didn't click on it. You gotta click on it.

• 5:15David Imel?

  No, Gmail definitely has this issue too, because it says that I have 9,317 unread emails.

• 5:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, and you only have 9,315.

• 5:22David Imel?

  I recently emailed you 9,300 times, so that's actually, it's gonna check out perfectly. Yeah, it's all spam. Yeah, it's all spam. Well, I'm sorry, Mariah. I hope Samsung hears this and fixes it imminently.

• 5:34Andrew Manganelli?

  They won't.

• 5:34David Imel?

  They won't.

• 5:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Maybe.

• 5:36David Imel?

  Maybe.

• 5:36Andrew Manganelli?

  We did get one fixed the other day. I actually got the megaphone issue we had with the dropdown that showed every single post by minute.

• 5:43David Imel?

  Oh, they changed it?

• 5:44Andrew Manganelli?

  They changed it, and not only did they change it, but actively, someone messaged me and said, hey, I brought this to the attention of people, and they said, but they were already working on it. So, I'm taking credit, we're taking credit.

• 5:56David Imel?

  Were they?

• 5:57Andrew Manganelli?

  We did this.

• 5:58David Imel?

  There was the Google Maps thing where it started showing the, the speed before you would even leave. You got that changed.

• 6:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Android Auto, yeah.

• 6:05David Imel?

  Android Auto, I feel-

• 6:06Andrew Manganelli?

  I think we need the, there's the Killed by Google website, right?

• 6:10David Imel?

  Fixed by Waveform.

• 6:11Andrew Manganelli?

  We need fixed by Waveform.

• 6:13David Imel?

  That's a good call. That's a good call. Well, hey, speaking of, speaking of, did they even test this? What has it been like to live with the iPhone Duo the past week and a half? I have so many thoughts. There are so many big stories with it. One of the biggest stories with it is the app story, which is that, well, most developers don't have an iPhone Duo, and they have had the ability to develop for the Duo, but I think most of them like to have a physical device, and would like to spend extra time with it to make sure their apps are perfect. So, the past week and a half of using it, and I think for probably the first two, three weeks of people getting them and unboxing them and starting to move into them, you will find that most apps have not been tested with it. Did they even test this? No. They are unoptimized apps. Yeah.

• 6:57David Imel?

  And that just basically means there's like a bar down the side, and they look a little weird and kind of ugly, and they're not optimized to use the space at all. But when they do get optimized, they look so good, and every time I see like new app updates available, and I get another app that like checks the box for like Duo support, I get so happy. Yeah. So, as of right now, there's like three apps. The weird thing is that there are three states of optimization for Duo. There's like, not updated to iOS 27 at all. Yeah. There's updated- A lot of Google apps. Yeah, a lot of Google apps. There's updated to iOS 27, and then there's 27.1. Just 27 has like partial Duo support, and 27.1 has like full Duo support. I barely consider it Duo support, I just consider it like kind of stretching it to be bigger.

• 7:40David Imel?

  Yeah, or like putting more of the, the background in the area.

• 7:45Andrew Manganelli?

  The Google Calendar interior screen one was the craziest thing I've ever seen.

• 7:49David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 7:50Andrew Manganelli?

  It somehow feels worse. Have, do you use Google?

• 7:53David Imel?

  I do use Google Calendar.

• 7:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Did you, have you looked at it in, on the interior?

• 7:57David Imel?

  I have. I'm trying to think of what, I mean, yeah, besides that.

• 8:01Andrew Manganelli?

  It's, and then, so we were doing it at the lunch table the other day. So you open it, and it stays the exact same size.

• 8:08David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 8:08Andrew Manganelli?

  And then we were like, oh, rotate it, it'll fit that better. And the first time you rotate it, it actually gets smaller somehow, because it's a vertical thing.

• 8:16David Imel?

  I don't know.

• 8:16Andrew Manganelli?

  There is that expand button?

• 8:18David Imel?

  There's also the rotate button. Yeah, which makes it wide. Which makes it wide, which is, now it went away. Yeah, see, here's the, here's the problem. I can't find the button again. Oh, there, there it is. Yeah, it's a little rough. It's a little rough. I will say, so for unoptimized apps that are like fully unoptimized, like Google Apps, or RIP Arc Search, my favorite mobile browser, which they will not update- So sad. Because Arc is dead, so I need to find a new browser. It effectively uses the iPhone 18 Pro aspect ratio. Well, not aspect ratio, but the width.

• 8:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Width.

• 8:52David Imel?

  It's like the exact same width as the iPhone 18 Pro, and this makes sense because developers have already coded for that. But then you just get this giant black bar on the right, and it looks pretty rough. And the Duo is like, this is where I'd put the extra controls. If I had them. But it doesn't have them. Yeah, or just move the controls to that side. Exactly.

• 9:09Andrew Manganelli?

  It's tough with Google Calendar too, because you have that plus button right, it's right there next to the black bar, and it's covering things. It's like, if this was moved over 40 pixels, it would be perfect.

• 9:19David Imel?

  I'm also gonna be honest, I don't always love having the controls on the right side. Like, it's a smart idea for reachability, but it's not where I always anticipate things to be. Even the dock, like, they put the dock on the right side of the screen, and I'm still, this is probably just muscle memory, but I'm still hitting the bottom left, because that's where Pocket Casts always used to be for me, and then I open Telegram by accident. Yeah, it's a little bit of muscle memory. I do find it nice, though, because the unoptimized apps still have all the stuff at the bottom that is harder to reach, because it's further away from the edge. Yeah. So the big philosophical idea with Duo, I guess, if you haven't seen the reviews, is basically it moves all the controls from the bottom over to the side, moves all the controls from the top, also over to the side, and that includes like your time and your cell signal and-

• 10:03David Imel?

  The grouping of the status indicators. Yeah. Yeah.

• 10:06Speaker 03

  Can I ask a question?

• 10:07David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 10:08Speaker 03

  We're complaining about it being not optimized specifically on this, but for other foldables, I assume this is a typical thing that always happens at launch, or is this not true?

• 10:18David Imel?

  Sort of, but also not because they completely redesigned how the interface works on this phone.

• 10:23Andrew Manganelli?

  On the front specifically, and the thing on the inside, I don't know, that's what shocks me the most is like, there are things in foldables that aren't well optimized, but that Google Calendar on the interior screen of that is like, bad, bad.

• 10:36Speaker 03

  But like, so does this happen on the new Samsung fold?

• 10:39David Imel?

  Yeah, so on, on these Android foldables, and a lot of Android apps are much better at, I guess, scaling to a bunch of different sizes because there's so many different sized Android phones in the first place. So iPhones have just been the same aspect ratio year after year after year, and iPhone apps are easy to develop because all iPhones look the same. And so on Android phones like this, like this Z Fold 8, for example, apps fill up the screen, there's no black bar down the side, and then they can have occasional weird hiccups or bugs with like, actively changing between the inside and outside screen. But then on the iPhone, I keep saying surface, on the iPhone Duo, it just looks like a normal iPhone app on the side and then a black bar, which is a little bit more jarring,

• 11:21David Imel?

  but, and it's a little more obvious when it's not well optimized, but I think Apple's strength is getting developers on board with this sort of stuff over time.

• 11:29Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 11:30David Imel?

  And so my like line near the end of the review was like, if you're still thinking about buying one and you're like trying to decide, if you do buy it now, you won't get it for another two months, and by then way more apps will be optimized and you'll have a better time.

• 11:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Hopefully.

• 11:42David Imel?

  Hopefully. Yeah, Google has so many teams on so many of their apps that it's gonna, I don't even know if half the apps are gonna be optimized.

• 11:50Andrew Manganelli?

  And the benefit of this versus like when foldables were first getting launched, what, eight years ago or whatever, is like, they know they're just gonna have to make it for this one that's like this, and it's iPhone, that's what's the benefit of making for iPhone.

• 12:04David Imel?

  As long as they keep the same display size.

• 12:06Andrew Manganelli?

  As long as they keep the same display size, which I think they will. I don't think they're gonna change that. Where like before it was Wild West, we have Android manufacturers all over the place making all these different aspect ratio, ratio foldables that everyone developing was probably like, oh my gosh, I already had to make so many for this slab phones and this too.

• 12:24David Imel?

  I mean, that's why Google had to come in and hyper optimize Android for flexible screen sizes because they just knew, like there are too many types of Android phones. You can't hard code for every single possible screen size.

• 12:36David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 12:36David Imel?

  Um, my overarching thoughts on this phone is that it doesn't really feel like a phone, which is something I really like. It feels like a single task oriented device where I'm, I think of something I want to do and I go do it. And I think that that has to do with the fact that one, it's very short and squat, so it's like kind of a worse experience in that way.

• 12:55David Imel?

  True.

• 12:55David Imel?

  And then anytime I want the experience to actually be good, I have to open it. And the friction of needing to open your phone and then do the thing, and then physically shutting it when you're done, it feels like I'm onto this task, now I'm done, onto this task, now I'm done.

• 13:11Andrew Manganelli?

  It's funny because I'm pretty sure the way they want this to be marketed is you saying like, it's really bad at doing all those things. Like this is supposed to be like multitasking, big screen, lots of different things to do, like use your phone so much for all these things. And you're saying like, oh, it almost feels like you're saying, I'm gonna be less distracted because I'm gonna have to think so hard about the things I have to do.

• 13:32David Imel?

  Is what it is for me.

• 13:33Andrew Manganelli?

  For you, but I don't think that's how they would want to market this thing. I think they would want this thing to be like, this does everything you could ever want to do, be distracted, be on this.

• 13:41David Imel?

  They're the ones that made a case that physically goes over the front screen.

• 13:45Andrew Manganelli?

  The dumbest thing I've ever.

• 13:46David Imel?

  No, I like it.

• 13:46Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it's stupid.

• 13:47David Imel?

  I like it.

• 13:48David Imel?

  That's like an iPad type thing, like the Folio cases for the iPad, they do the same thing. It's like, it's closed. And when I really want to be intentional about opening it, then I have to like decide to use it.

• 13:56David Imel?

  Yeah. Uh, I do think that the back of this case is bad, so it only does this, but it doesn't do multiple angles. So when you have it open, like yes, you could do like a FaceTime or watch a video like that, but it's really not good for.

• 14:08David Imel?

  Wait, I pushed it way further back.

• 14:10David Imel?

  I mean, you can do that, but it's still unstable.

• 14:12David Imel?

  Oh, you mean like vertical?

• 14:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, the kickstand for anyone listening. There's a kickstand and it has one.

• 14:19David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 14:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Good spot.

• 14:20David Imel?

  Yeah, I had a similar thought with reviewing the, the hamburger style flips.

• 14:26David Imel?

  Flips.

• 14:26David Imel?

  With like the Z Fold, the Z Flip, for example, yeah. You can't really accidentally just open your phone and start doom scrolling TikTok.

• 14:36David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 14:36David Imel?

  And that's kind of a good thing. Like, I don't think they market it that way, but that's kind of like a nice feature where you, you kind of have this barrier where you have to decide, all right, like the outside screen is just notification triaging and just like making sure I see text and then like closing it. And I'm not gonna doom scroll, but if I like open the phone and decide to go use it, then I'm gonna go use it.

• 14:56David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 14:56David Imel?

  And the Duo has a little bit of that because the outside screen is only five and a half inches, it's a little squat. It's not great for watching videos and you can kind of still do it, but there's a little bit of that.

• 15:06David Imel?

  Everything is much smaller and it's just like not really a great experience.

• 15:10David Imel?

  You see less information.

• 15:11David Imel?

  Especially when it's not optimized. It's like a much worse experience on the outside. So you can have a great experience if you open it up and then you do this and then you're like, oh, I have an iPad mini. But on the outside, it's like, eh, so you have to be intentional about actually opening it.

• 15:23Speaker 03

  You guys underestimate people's doom scrolling abilities that they won't use the front screen.

• 15:27David Imel?

  I really do think a lot of doom scrolling just comes from like the muscle memory of unlocking, unlocking your phone just like rapidly though, you know, without even thinking about it, you know?

• 15:36Speaker 04

  You saw the part in our video where Mark has scrolls on TikTok and Instagram reels at the same time, right?

• 15:42David Imel?

  Yes, but like you have to intentionally like multitask that way.

• 15:46David Imel?

  That takes several steps to like open it up, unfold it, open one, stroll to the side, open the other one, and then starts flipping and things.

• 15:54Speaker 04

  Assuming you haven't set up a shortcut for it.

• 15:55David Imel?

  Yeah, I have found myself using two apps at the same time more often than I thought I would. Um, most of the time it's useful for copying information from one screen to another.

• 16:04David Imel?

  It's so good for that.

• 16:05David Imel?

  Yeah. Obviously you can just multitask, you could just be in one app, copy and then swipe over and be on the next app. But it's just nice to see it on the left. One of the most useful ones, I sometimes get parking tickets because I forget to move my car because we have alternate sides sweeping. And every single time I pay the ticket, I have to insert my bank info, like my routing number and my, um, and my account number, which is 728, no, I'm kidding. Um, and yeah, it's specifically with like banking apps because they like blackout when you're multitasking.

• 16:36David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 16:36David Imel?

  I have to like really remember what it is every time I go. So I can have them both open at the same time and actually just type it in and it's much easier.

• 16:43David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 16:43David Imel?

  Or like flight information, if I want to add it to Flighty, that kind of stuff, all very helpful. Battery life, insanely good.

• 16:50David Imel?

  You had a great battery life experience. I had like a solid battery life experience, but it seems like you were having amazing battery.

• 16:56David Imel?

  And again, it might be because I'm just like not opening it as much. I'm using this booklet case.

• 17:01David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 17:01David Imel?

  And this might help because the screen's on way less of the time. It's like completely off when the case is closed.

• 17:06David Imel?

  My other question about your use.

• 17:08David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 17:08David Imel?

  How much, like what's your ratio of open screen to closed screen use?

• 17:12David Imel?

  Someone asked me that on Twitter. I think it's about 50/50, but I don't know how much of that is the novelty of it being a folding phone.

• 17:20David Imel?

  Yeah. I, I was kind of predicting, I maybe I'm projecting a little bit in my review, but I think at first it's very fun to open it up all the time. It's very satisfying. You're just like playing with the apps and stuff. And then like a month or two later, especially on the candy bar shaped ones, you just start using it like a regular phone and you have to remember that you can open it. And I'm curious if like, I said in my review, you'd probably be like 75% outside screen, 25% inside screen. We'll see how it turns out for people.

• 17:47David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 17:47David Imel?

  But my battery life was, was pretty good, like B+, like six hours of screen on time, extra battery at the end of the day and all that. Uh, but a little worse in the Pro Max, but I think if I used way more inside screen, that might not be as good.

• 18:00David Imel?

  Probably.

• 18:01David Imel?

  Just because it's more pixels to drive.

• 18:02David Imel?

  No, on that, on that point of like the candy bar style phones, Alex had, was showing me a photo on his Pixel Fold 2 or whatever it was. And he was showing me on Google Photos on his just front screen. And I was like, dude, open it up. And he was like, oh, that's so much work. I was like, why did you buy this phone? The whole point of it is to open it up.

• 18:19David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 18:19David Imel?

  And like, if you have a perfectly fine, normal phone experience on the front screen, you don't have as much incentive to actually open the phone. So making it a worse experience on the front display does give you incentive to use the inner display, which I understand is a cop out. I totally understand that's a cop out. It's like so bad that you have to use the good feature.

• 18:39Speaker 03

  It's $2,000.

• 18:40David Imel?

  I know.

• 18:41Andrew Manganelli?

  I think, like you mentioned with the flip before, it almost feels. Closer to a flip because of that where it's like the front screen is starting to be like the on the go usage and then I think people will use the inner screen way more if public transportation commute is part of your everyday life. If there's lots of things you're doing like entertainment or whatever, where you don't have to be in control of anything else, you can just be fully focused on your phone.

• 19:08David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 19:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Like plane rides, whatever. So that I think it'll be more. And then the front is just like, reply, do something, check something really fast, look at a Google map.

• 19:18David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 19:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Then you're good.

• 19:19David Imel?

  Something real quick. Yeah. I loved that it was really nice and portrait, similar to the Z Fold 8. There's a lot of similarities between these phones, but I really liked that that phone sort of made that behavior feel more natural. It's like a small tablet in vertical.

• 19:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 19:34David Imel?

  And on this phone, this iPhone Duo, the volume buttons are on the side. So the sort of correct orientation is like with the cameras up at the top here, the volume buttons are where they would normally be on like a normal phone.

• 19:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, true. That's a great point.

• 19:50David Imel?

  And Touch ID is at the top. So it's kind of like a normal iPad setup here.

• 19:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 19:53David Imel?

  And I liked doing that a lot with the iPhone Duo.

• 19:56David Imel?

  It is really nice to just have basically an iPad mini in your pocket. And when you're reading an article, you could just like read it on the on the display. The volume rockers, when it's closed, are annoying to use.

• 20:08Andrew Manganelli?

  They look really annoying.

• 20:09David Imel?

  Because you have to like wrap your phone around it and then just finding which one is volume down and volume up is is very annoying.

• 20:15Andrew Manganelli?

  This whole thing, from when I've seen Marquez use it, is like, there are so many things that they did a good job of in terms of reachability by fixing it, yet then they still have a bunch of things on it that are a pain in the neck for reachability. The fact that the swipe downs are still right, middle and left for what? Settings, Siri notifications? Like, if you're moving all the things to the right, then you should have nothing in the top left corner. That's a pain in the neck to swipe.

• 20:40David Imel?

  It's a hand gymnastics.

• 20:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. So like, it feels like, here's the reason why this is great. Ignore the reason why this over here is bad. We're gonna forget about that.

• 20:49David Imel?

  Many times it is difficult to like, get your notification shade to come down because you accidentally just activate Siri instead. Michael Fisher was specifically complaining about that to me.

• 20:59Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm surprised.

• 20:59David Imel?

  His touch target was, I mean, see, it just did it, just pulled down Siri.

• 21:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Why is Siri not in a different place that's easier to do? Like a hold the power button?

• 21:07David Imel?

  It does still do that.

• 21:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, that does activate Siri?

• 21:10David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 21:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Then the two thirds of the top left should just be notifications.

• 21:14David Imel?

  That would be nice.

• 21:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Like, give you more room for notifications, so you don't have to go all the way to the left corner.

• 21:20David Imel?

  I think it's because they built Siri to come out of the dynamic island on the regular iPhones.

• 21:24Andrew Manganelli?

  So they decided to make it in the same spot on the Duo, even though the selfie cameras are right.

• 21:29David Imel?

  You're right. They should have changed it.

• 21:30Andrew Manganelli?

  This is like, there's so many polished parts that they kind of overshadow how many parts it feels like they just straight up missed on.

• 21:36David Imel?

  I agree. There's like a lot of things that they completely redesigned for this phone, and there's some things they just didn't. And like, the friction between those two things makes the phone sometimes a little bit weird.

• 21:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 21:45David Imel?

  There's a little more thinking.

• 21:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 21:47David Imel?

  I also will say that a lot of the hand gymnastics stuff is more annoying because the phone is slightly thicker, slightly heavier, and slightly slipperier with the titanium, like curved rails.

• 21:59Andrew Manganelli?

  I dislike the rails so much. And I'm not an iPhone user, so I'm not used to like the slick rails. But the first time I held this, I was just like, oh my goodness, I feel like I'm gonna drop this. And then just to add on to all the things you said, and the fact that it's a $2,000 phone, you really don't want to drop.

• 22:13David Imel?

  Yeah. And then the Z Fold 8, which is, you know, also basically $2,000, but it has, it's thinner, it's lighter, and the rails are flat and matte, and it's just way easier to maneuver. Like, I don't find nearly as many issues with like, moving the phone around in my hand, opening and closing it. I love using that phone because of how easy it is to maneuver.

• 22:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 22:31David Imel?

  And then, of course, it's Android, so you can like, pull down from the top and it's all the quick settings and notifications. So I don't have like, the reachability to the corner issue.

• 22:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 22:39David Imel?

  So that's, that's a big difference. And that's why I kept calling it like, first gen feeling hardware in my review. I think a second gen iPhone Duo, in my dream world.

• 22:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Hmm.

• 22:51David Imel?

  Okay, in my dream world, it has like a silicon carbon battery and like, an extra camera, obviously. But it also actually gets thinner, flat sides, matte, and like, makes-

• 23:01David Imel?

  Even thinner?

• 23:01David Imel?

  Yes.

• 23:02David Imel?

  They can't put Face ID in if it's even thinner.

• 23:05David Imel?

  I, so the thing about Face ID.

• 23:07David Imel?

  I know.

• 23:07David Imel?

  All right. So the annoying part, let's talk about that.

• 23:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 23:10David Imel?

  I think a lot of people are gonna miss Face ID on the iPhone Duo. Because everyone uses Face ID on the current iPhone.

• 23:14David Imel?

  I 100% miss it on the iPhone Duo, yeah.

• 23:16Andrew Manganelli?

  The thing about the touch on the fingerprint reader, this Touch ID, is it has a built-in delay.

• 23:22David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 23:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Where you have to swipe and then touch, or you can have like-

• 23:28David Imel?

  Tap and then touch.

• 23:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Rest your finger there for like, two whole seconds and then it opens automatically.

• 23:32David Imel?

  Yeah, but you still have to like, wake the phone before you do it, otherwise nothing happens.

• 23:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. And so it just feels slow.

• 23:39David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 23:39Andrew Manganelli?

  And I wish it was way faster. I wish I could remove that delay. I wish I could just like, tap it, wake it up, and it opens instantly, like all the Android phones. I showed that in the video too.

• 23:46David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 23:47Andrew Manganelli?

  I, I, you know, and they don't do like, Face Unlock without Face ID. That's their own philosophy. I wish they did.

• 23:54David Imel?

  Security stuff.

• 23:55Andrew Manganelli?

  So now it's like, I wish it had like, a much faster fingerprint reader experience.

• 24:00David Imel?

  It's specifically very annoying on Apple Pay, because you have to double tap, and then you have to like, hold it, and then it goes, oh, make sure you authenticate with your fingerprint, and then you have to authenticate with your fingerprint, and then you have to tap. It's like, it's like a four step process.

• 24:13David Imel?

  But it's, it's just like, you hold it down for a while, and it goes through all those one by one, but slowly.

• 24:18Andrew Manganelli?

  I think that's a feature, because everyone who buys this phone wants the person at the cash register to know you're paying with an iPhone Duo, and you need to hold it out as long as possible.

• 24:26David Imel?

  Yeah. It's just, yeah, Face ID is just much faster in most ways. And a lot of people on my, on my socials have been like, just unlock with Apple Watch. Just use the Apple Watch. I don't wear an Apple Watch, guys.

• 24:38David Imel?

  Yep.

• 24:38David Imel?

  That's what, that's what they want. They want you to be like, yeah, everything's easier in our ecosystem, but I don't want to wear an Apple Watch.

• 24:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. Can you tap to pay with this open?

• 24:46David Imel?

  Uh, oh, how much is that bacon and cheese?

• 24:49David Imel?

  I imagine, hold on, let me, uh-

• 24:50David Imel?

  I was actually thinking about that. I have a flight later today, and my, I am for sure scanning my boarding pass like, like this.

• 24:56Andrew Manganelli?

  That's like, have you seen the people who joke with their friends at the airport, and they print out their boarding pass on like, a poster card?

• 25:02Speaker 03

  Did you guys see the guy who scanned, he put a QR code on his bald head and then tried to scan it to get on the train?

• 25:09David Imel?

  That probably wouldn't work, because your head's curved. But yeah.

• 25:12Speaker 03

  It did work.

• 25:13David Imel?

  So a couple other things. I am, I really like the apps that have been sort of optimized to just look like a Mac app, like Slack. Slack needs a little bit more optimization. They actually tweeted at me today and said that they're working on it right now.

• 25:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Can you tweet at them for a couple other things that I have issues with?

• 25:28David Imel?

  Well, let's just use it as, did they even test this? And maybe we'll get fixed. But it looks just like the Mac app, where it's got like, all your conversations on the side, and then it's got the main, the main thing right here. Same with like, Apple Messages. You have like, all of your contacts here with the actual text here. I think that's awesome. And because of this, I really want the accessory ecosystem for this thing to get crazy. So I can like, have it, you know, sitting on a desk and use it with like, a little mini keyboard that's specifically made for this.

• 25:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I ask you really quick? So in Apple Messages, it has like, your contacts on the left and the message on the right.

• 26:02David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 26:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Can you press in the, where you type? What does the keyboard look like?

• 26:06David Imel?

  It like, pops up on the whole screen.

• 26:07Andrew Manganelli?

  It's over the whole thing. Oh, but it does bring just the right up. I think that's fine.

• 26:10David Imel?

  Yeah, it just brings the right up.

• 26:11Andrew Manganelli?

  The Slack one looked really nice, except for the black bar on the right.

• 26:15David Imel?

  There is a black bar on the right.

• 26:16Andrew Manganelli?

  That black bar drives me insane.

• 26:17David Imel?

  They will almost definitely be moving the bubbles on the bottom to the right side.

• 26:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 26:22David Imel?

  And they said they're working on it. So, yeah. So I really, I want all of the app developers that make desktop apps to just make the unfolded experience just like the desktop app. Because then I want to be able to have my phone on a, on a desk and just use a little mini keyboard and get some work done. If Google Docs was optimized-

• 26:42David Imel?

  Please, Google, please.

• 26:44David Imel?

  Because Safari-

• 26:44Andrew Manganelli?

  What is Google Docs right now?

• 26:46David Imel?

  It's so bad.

• 26:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Please tell me it's one vertical page with-

• 26:49David Imel?

  It's the same as Calendar. It's the same as Calendar.

• 26:52David Imel?

  It's bad. It's horrible. Something like Safari is actually awesome, because it literally shows all the tabs at the top, just like on desktop.

• 26:58David Imel?

  Like a browser?

• 26:58David Imel?

  It looks just like a desktop browser.

• 27:00Andrew Manganelli?

  I just want, if-

• 27:01David Imel?

  And I want that for every app.

• 27:03Andrew Manganelli?

  I know we did, but if, like, a Samsung Fold did this or whatever, Twitter would be-

• 27:08David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 27:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Losing its mind.

• 27:10David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 27:11Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, I'm sure there's still parts that are.

• 27:12David Imel?

  So like, Android apps, the Android version like, would at least stretch it out and scale it to fit the screen.

• 27:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 27:18David Imel?

  But obviously then, there's like, extra work that Google can do to make it really take advantage of all the space.

• 27:24David Imel?

  Apple is just kind of like, turn it sideways. Yeah.

• 27:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Please, you're using it wrong.

• 27:28Speaker 03

  Would you say the consumer experience is better for a second gen product? Because that's what I'm hearing.

• 27:33David Imel?

  You mean, will be better for a second gen?

• 27:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:35David Imel?

  Yes.

• 27:36David Imel?

  No question. Yeah. So I think that's kind of where a lot of the reviews landed, which I tend to agree with. It's a first gen product. So, early adopters, tech enthusiasts, people like you and I, who are excited about the fringe, rough around the edges stuff, like the apps being weird, like, that stuff we're willing to deal with. But there's lots of other first gen products where you kind of learn from the early adopters and all that stuff. And then two or three generations later, it starts to find itself, and that's where it's good enough for regular people to buy. That's what iPad was, that's what Apple Watch was, that's what MacBook Air was, and I think that's what my iPhone Duo is. It's gonna be prob, hopefully, I'm fingers crossed, I think it will be really good in like, two or three generations.

• 28:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 28:18David Imel?

  Fingers.

• 28:19David Imel?

  I think second gen will be better, even just because way more apps will be optimized.

• 28:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. A lot of this stuff feels like the typical Apple move of, we made all of this polish, we just, we don't use any apps that are outside of our own ecosystem. So to us, we don't see how there's anything wrong with this, because we didn't, like, everything Apple works perfectly on it.

• 28:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 28:41Andrew Manganelli?

  And then everything that isn't. It just feels like, even though it's first gen, in the sense of, it's their first gen, and we talked about how there's eight years of folding phones already, this feels like there's too many issues, even as their first gen, because of all the stuff they should be noticing from other-

• 28:57David Imel?

  There's still Apple apps that are not optimized.

• 28:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay. I take that back then. That looks terrible.

• 29:02David Imel?

  That's actually surprising that they allowed that to happen.

• 29:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Pages.

• 29:04David Imel?

  I agree.

• 29:05David Imel?

  Yeah, but they still make it.

• 29:06David Imel?

  I agree.

• 29:06Andrew Manganelli?

  I didn't even know there wasn't iOS.

• 29:08David Imel?

  But if that's the barometer, because like, Google has like, 40 apps in the App Store.

• 29:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 29:12David Imel?

  Google's not gonna update the bottom half of their apps that nobody uses with that same logic. So like, I hope Google Docs gets updated, for example. I really hope Google Calendar gets updated. But what about the like, 17th like, slideshow app that they make or whatever, or other random stuff? Like, maybe Gemini is first, and then whatever else happens, happens.

• 29:30David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 29:31David Imel?

  We'll see.

• 29:32David Imel?

  Okay, the camera situation is interesting.

• 29:33David Imel?

  Yes.

• 29:34David Imel?

  So, the interior camera, as we've mentioned, has a hidden under display camera.

• 29:39David Imel?

  Cheeks.

• 29:40David Imel?

  What does that mean?

• 29:41David Imel?

  Cheeks.

• 29:42Andrew Manganelli?

  It's bad. It's really bad.

• 29:44David Imel?

  Cheeks, okay.

• 29:46David Imel?

  I don't know if I've heard that.

• 29:47David Imel?

  It's bad.

• 29:48David Imel?

  It's bad.

• 29:49Andrew Manganelli?

  I think I've heard Miles say that, but I didn't know what that meant.

• 29:51David Imel?

  It's four megapixels.

• 29:53David Imel?

  Oh.

• 29:53David Imel?

  It.

• 29:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Is it really?

• 29:54David Imel?

  Yeah, and it looks like it. It looks worse than that.

• 29:57David Imel?

  Okay, that's fact, that's true.

• 29:58Andrew Manganelli?

  That's four million.

• 29:59David Imel?

  Yeah, four million.

• 30:00Andrew Manganelli?

  4X the Dyson.

• 30:01David Imel?

  Yeah, 4X the Dyson. Sorry, I should rephrase. It is four million pixels. We're really used to way more pixels than that, though.

• 30:07David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 30:08David Imel?

  It also looks like it's shooting through a lattice fence.

• 30:11David Imel?

  Which it kinda is.

• 30:12David Imel?

  It is, yeah, literally is.

• 30:13David Imel?

  If it was Google Photos, they could just remove the fence.

• 30:16David Imel?

  So, okay, a couple of things.

• 30:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Elite callback?

• 30:20David Imel?

  Um, they call it the FaceTime camera on purpose. That's because in FaceTime, it actually looks pretty good.

• 30:26David Imel?

  Because they're doing video processing?

• 30:27David Imel?

  They do video processing on it that kinda removes that pretty well, and it looks very decent. Um, it definitely has a little bit of halation and like glow because of the way the light's being bent around those lattices.

• 30:37David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 30:38David Imel?

  But overall, like, when you take a photo with it, it looks like cheeks.

• 30:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 30:42David Imel?

  As you would say.

• 30:43Andrew Manganelli?

  If there's a light source in this photo, it's like, I'm holding it up to me and it's like, it's pretty bad. And then this little light behind me peers out and it's like, God is shining out of it.

• 30:53David Imel?

  Take a photo, and now look at the photo.

• 30:56Andrew Manganelli?

  It's so funny, I don't know where to look.

• 30:57David Imel?

  The post-processing is way worse.

• 31:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh my.

• 31:01David Imel?

  It's terrible. Yeah.

• 31:02Andrew Manganelli?

  That looks terrible in the preview, and then in the actual photo.

• 31:06David Imel?

  Zoom in at all, and you're just like, oh.

• 31:08David Imel?

  I mean, yeah, it's bad.

• 31:10David Imel?

  And we're in a very well.

• 31:11Andrew Manganelli?

  This looks like someone hacked my camera on my laptop in the middle of the podcast and like.

• 31:16David Imel?

  Yeah, but as you'll notice, the preview is actually pretty decent, and that's because like the video processing they're doing is okay.

• 31:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Funny.

• 31:22David Imel?

  Yeah. Um, so there's that. The rear camera is definitely worse than the 18 Pro. I saw that across the board for sure. There's so much over-sharpening. It kinda feels like the iPhone camera felt like four generations ago.

• 31:37David Imel?

  Like, it's okay. Like, in worse lighting, obviously it falls apart, and the ultra-wide especially, like, there's no type of sharpness in the ultra-wide.

• 31:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 31:43David Imel?

  But it still has the same look as the main cameras from like an 18 Pro.

• 31:47David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 31:48David Imel?

  The general, like, higher level of shadow detail and like the colors are typically the same.

• 31:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 31:55David Imel?

  But the second you pixel peep, it does feel like an iPhone 15.

• 31:59David Imel?

  The funny thing is that the ultra-wide is pretty much the same quality as the main, and that's saying something, because ultra-wide is usually terrible.

• 32:06David Imel?

  The ultra-wide's good in the middle, but I thought, at least in my experience.

• 32:09David Imel?

  What do you mean in the middle?

• 32:10David Imel?

  Like, in the middle, so I take an ultra-wide photo, the middle section of the ultra-wide looks fine.

• 32:14David Imel?

  I see what you're saying.

• 32:14David Imel?

  But then you look at anything that's not in the middle, and boy, is it noisy and soft.

• 32:20David Imel?

  Hmm.

• 32:21David Imel?

  And that's fine, like, you're still getting the detail. That's why ultra-wide, they're mostly just the utility of being able to see more.

• 32:25David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 32:26David Imel?

  But, yeah.

• 32:26David Imel?

  It's the same ultra-wide as on the 18 Pro, which is, which is cool. Um, but yeah, I mean, ultimately, they want you to take selfies either with the front-facing camera, which actually is pretty decent.

• 32:37David Imel?

  Or.

• 32:37David Imel?

  Or by flipping it around.

• 32:39David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 32:40David Imel?

  However, and they've like said you should do this, and they did make it like a cool UI interface for doing it, where you switch to selfie mode, and then you pull it around here and slide to unlock, slide to show camera. You can do that. You can, you can see the photo you're taking before you take it. But holding the phone and taking this is extremely hard.

• 33:00David Imel?

  There's a lot of hand gymnastics.

• 33:01David Imel?

  The natural thing you would wanna do is probably do this, and then it's like, I'm gonna drop this.

• 33:06David Imel?

  Lot of hand gymnastics.

• 33:06David Imel?

  I'm going to drop this.

• 33:08David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 33:08David Imel?

  The only thing I found it useful for was I put on the timer, and then I did this, and I took a selfie of me and my friend, and we put it on my backpack, and it was actually useful in that way.

• 33:17David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 33:17David Imel?

  Other than that, this is extremely hard to do, and I would just recommend using the front camera.

• 33:22David Imel?

  I'm so glad you said that. This is one thing that didn't quite make it into my video. It made it in a little bit, and I thought, like, if I, if I hammered on this for too long, it would feel like nitpicking unnecessarily, but it's just, there's a lot of weird, extra, like, hard-to-hold moments with the hand gymnastics. Like, the camera control is the bottom corner. So if this is a righty phone like this, and camera control's down here, it's a little thing. Like, I'm about to spend five minutes on the pod. If I did five minutes in the video, they'd be like, why are you still talking to me?

• 33:52David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 33:53David Imel?

  But like, this is like, kind of a weird thing, but okay, you're probably turning it sideways, so it's okay. Then the volume buttons are at the top, and there's this extra shuffle that you do till I get there. Then what you're talking about, which is like you open it, and then you flip it around, and then you get the camera open.

• 34:06David Imel?

  And you have to switch it to selfie mode.

• 34:07David Imel?

  And you flip it over, and don't touch the back screen, or you might mess it up, and then like slide. Okay, now you've got the controls. Now you have to not touch the lenses and like hopefully get it like a photo set up, but now your finger's in it, so maybe other hand. Like, all this stuff.

• 34:19David Imel?

  This is, it's just a lot of weird hand motions and stuff with this. This is why I want all of these crazy cases to come out, because they're gonna have like origami and [BLEEP] that will make this easier.

• 34:29David Imel?

  Maybe.

• 34:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 34:30David Imel?

  What were you gonna say, Andrew?

• 34:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Uh, do you know when like you're trying to take a photo and someone comes up to you and you're like, would you like me to take a photo of you guys? You're gonna be like.

• 34:37David Imel?

  You don't know how?

• 34:38Andrew Manganelli?

  No, not even no, you don't know how, like, I don't trust you, holding this thing.

• 34:41David Imel?

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Like, right now, you're gonna drop this, or I would be like, just kidding, I'm not.

• 34:45David Imel?

  Okay, best-case scenario, you set it up for them, right? So you open it up, you open the camera app, you turn on Duo preview so that you can see that they're gonna do it right. And then you hand it to them like this, and then you go, alright, a little higher.

• 34:58David Imel?

  You can actually guide them?

• 35:00David Imel?

  And then you can get the exact shot you want.

• 35:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Except now that somebody offers you, and then they direct me for like 10 minutes, I was like, I was doing y'all a favor. Let's chill out here.

• 35:08David Imel?

  Yeah. So, yeah, I hope that they had a telephoto in the next one. Um, I wish they could have a bigger sensor, but that's just not gonna be possible, I don't think. Unless they figure out some special physics, but who knows? Right now, I'm like really missing the telephoto lens, but I also really miss it on the iPhone Air, and that's just a compromise.

• 35:27David Imel?

  Yeah, I think the battery is good enough that they can use extra room to add a camera.

• 35:33David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 35:33David Imel?

  Like the telephoto.

• 35:34David Imel?

  I kinda agree with that.

• 35:35David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 35:35David Imel?

  And they'll just be like, well, the A21 Pro is even more efficient, so there's even more battery life.

• 35:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Did you guys miss this has Fusion camera?

• 35:43David Imel?

  Yeah, seven lenses in my pocket.

• 35:45David Imel?

  This is the other thing, and maybe they should've called it the Duo Pro or something, but they don't have ProRAW, and they don't have ProRes, and they don't have it. Well, they have ProMotion, obviously, but they don't have any of those like Pro features on the Pro phone, and I understand they still have to sell Pro iPhones. But the Pro iPhone is half the price of this thing, and I just think if you make, the most expensive thing you should make should have all the features of the ones below it, price-wise.

• 36:10David Imel?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:11David Imel?

  So, yeah, there's no reason they couldn't have done ProRAW.

• 36:15David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 36:15David Imel?

  They took it out intentionally.

• 36:16David Imel?

  It's the same processor as the Pros, they should be able to do that stuff.

• 36:20David Imel?

  You shouldn't get better features on a thing that costs a thousand dollars less.

• 36:24David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 36:24David Imel?

  That seems insane.

• 36:25David Imel?

  That's a very valid take. It's just the, yeah, the Pro iPhone has to get the Pro stuff.

• 36:29David Imel?

  I know, but it is a Pro iPhone. It's just not, you know?

• 36:33David Imel?

  Yeah, it's like if you're the iPhone filmmaker in that specific way of being a Pro iPhone user, then you obviously get the one with the better cameras.

• 36:40David Imel?

  Even though real filmmakers like 4x3 more than they like 21x9.

• 36:45David Imel?

  Yeah. It's also, are you going to edit on the phone or not? Because if you are, then maybe you do get the one with the worst cameras, because it has the better screen to edit on.

• 36:52David Imel?

  Well, I don't know, this is a better screen to edit on.

• 36:54David Imel?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 36:55Andrew Manganelli?

  I think, yeah.

• 36:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 36:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Maybe that's their plan, so you buy the iPhone 18 Pro Max to film everything, and then transfer it all to your iPhone Duo to then edit on the inside.

• 37:05Speaker 03

  No one's editing on that thing. I'm not gonna edit on that.

• 37:08David Imel?

  Somebody out, somebody out there who doesn't, like, there is a generation right now that does not have a computer that like does everything on their phone.

• 37:14David Imel?

  For sure.

• 37:15David Imel?

  And this is kinda sick for that.

• 37:16David Imel?

  Apparently, cap cut on the inner display is actually really useful, because you can see the full timeline, you can see the full timeline on the right, and then you can see your face and everything.

• 37:25Speaker 03

  Is it optimized already?

• 37:26David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 37:26David Imel?

  Yeah, there's a couple.

• 37:27David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 37:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Good on cap cut.

• 37:29David Imel?

  And I will say, on optimized apps, developers out there, I'm looking for alternatives for a lot of my apps right now, so if you make a good alternative to like popular apps, tweet at me or like email me, because I will try it. I really wanna find, because like.

• 37:42David Imel?

  If you're optimized first, I'm gonna try it.

• 37:43David Imel?

  There's some [BLEEP] that I'm like, I use every day, and I can't, it just sucks. It's so bad.

• 37:48David Imel?

  Alright, here's a take I wanna ask you about, that I've seen a couple places. Apple introduced this feature recently that is basically like the ability to hot-swapped your phone number slash data plan like quickly between iPhones. I forget what it's called.

• 38:01David Imel?

  Handoff.

• 38:02David Imel?

  Handoff.

• 38:02David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 38:03David Imel?

  And I saw people saying that they launched this around the Duo or the Air or whatever in the last year, so that people could switch between a more experimental iPhone and then their main iPhone more quickly, and then they own two iPhones, and then do two iPhone stuff back and forth, like a weekend iPhone and a workday iPhone?

• 38:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Apple doesn't live in reality.

• 38:26David Imel?

  Is that, is that a valid theory, or what do you think of that?

• 38:30David Imel?

  I, look, I miss the camera features on my Pro, but I'm not gonna buy two Pro, two iPhones, one that's $2,000 and one that's $1,200.

• 38:39David Imel?

  Fair.

• 38:40David Imel?

  Just to do that.

• 38:41David Imel?

  But it's only $35 a month.

• 38:42David Imel?

  Yeah, think about it. You're, you're an Apple executive.

• 38:45David Imel?

  I don't think it's $35.

• 38:46David Imel?

  You're in the boardroom, they're like, guys, we have a problem. We've saturated the market. Pretty much everyone who's gonna buy an iPhone has bought an iPhone, except for Alex. Um, who just could, anyway, how do we get people to buy two iPhones? Yeah.

• 39:02Speaker 04

  There you go.

• 39:03David Imel?

  I, I don't, I don't know about that.

• 39:06David Imel?

  I mean, it's a, it's obviously a feature that was only useful for people with two iPhones. But then people were speculating on the timing of the release of the feature. It's like, oh, this would have been cool with the, when the mini came out. Cause the mini, hmm, I don't know. People didn't want to like fully dedicate their life to the mini. But what if it was just like a, like a daytime phone and then on like work day phone.

• 39:25Speaker 04

  That's insane. The mini is like one inch diagonally small. It's not even that small.

• 39:30David Imel?

  But the fact that no one, not enough people bought it and they had to discontinue it. They're like, maybe more people would have given it a shot if they could have like swapped back and forth.

• 39:38Speaker 04

  No way.

• 39:39David Imel?

  Do you remember the Palm phone, the new Palm phone?

• 39:41David Imel?

  Yeah, it was like a one inch screen.

• 39:42David Imel?

  Yeah, 1.6.

• 39:43David Imel?

  Yeah, but they, it was the same idea. It was like you had to pay Verizon extra money to have the same phone number. And you, it was your weekend phone where you couldn't do anything on it.

• 39:51David Imel?

  Yeah, it was the same idea, but like, yeah, literally couldn't do lots of things on it.

• 39:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 39:55David Imel?

  I mean, you could, cause it had Google Play and Android, but it was horrible.

• 39:59Speaker 03

  What if we just like take the SIM card and we put it in the other phone?

• 40:02David Imel?

  Oh, there's no SIM card.

• 40:03David Imel?

  SIM card?

• 40:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know.

• 40:04David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 40:05David Imel?

  Yeah, I, I don't know about that.

• 40:07Andrew Manganelli?

  The only thing I could try and think of is if like you have, if your work phone and your phone happened to be the same, but like, you want a work phone to be specifically not the same.

• 40:18David Imel?

  Different number.

• 40:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Like I, so I feel like that's.

• 40:21David Imel?

  Look, I miss, I miss the camera features on the 18 Pro, but I would rather just own this and then bring a real camera.

• 40:28David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 40:29David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 40:29David Imel?

  The, I, I cut a section again from the review is the report card section. It's a 30 minute review already, so I have time for it. But, uh, the little report card thing that I did with the MacBook Neo and the, and the Google Book. So I was going to do that again. And for the, I got halfway into writing it and I was like, what do I do for the creator? Because it is a worse camera, but it is a better everything else.

• 40:50David Imel?

  Yeah, right.

• 40:51David Imel?

  Like the screen on the inside for watching your videos back, for editing, for publishing, like when those apps are optimized, it's better at everything else, but the cameras are worse. So is this better for a creator than the 18 Pro? Some of the creators maybe. Fun fact, I shot the whole Tesla Roadster reaction video on the iPhone Duo. There were a few comments, maybe two or three that I noticed to like, oh, what phone did you shoot this on? But there was 20,000 comments about the subject of the video, not the phone that I shot it on.

• 41:17David Imel?

  Of course.

• 41:17David Imel?

  And I think that that's probably the, the overall theory is that if the story is good enough, if the video is good enough, it doesn't matter what you shoot it on.

• 41:25David Imel?

  Yeah. But.

• 41:26Speaker 04

  Question, did you shoot it with the back camera?

• 41:30David Imel?

  No, that's again, too much hand gymnastics. I just did my old trusty this.

• 41:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, so you did with the back camera, but not.

• 41:36David Imel?

  That camera closed, no viewfinder.

• 41:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Trust.

• 41:40David Imel?

  Yes, trust.

• 41:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Pure trust.

• 41:41David Imel?

  Looks like it's facing me, must be facing me.

• 41:43David Imel?

  Cause I took, I was in Montreal this weekend and I took a very beautiful video of the fall foliage, but, um, the bottom part of the screen just had my finger in it. So I'm surprised that you didn't have that issue.

• 41:53David Imel?

  Oh, I, I've gotten used to, I've shot so many autofocus videos that I know like how to hold a phone and like avoid that issue. If I was like trying to do the right side of the phone, it'd be hard.

• 42:00David Imel?

  So you're saying I was holding it wrong?

• 42:02David Imel?

  Yeah, you're holding it wrong. Yeah, exactly.

• 42:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Tail as old as time.

• 42:04David Imel?

  Tail as old as time. Well, I'm super excited for the accessory ecosystem on this. One thing I did notice, MagSafe, it has, but a lot of MagSafe accessories don't really work very well for it.

• 42:15David Imel?

  Explain.

• 42:15David Imel?

  Because of the size, so.

• 42:16Andrew Manganelli?

  The size, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 42:17David Imel?

  Yeah, the size. So for example, I have a MagSafe charger at home that it's like, it's a flat charger. And because of the positioning of MagSafe on this, with the way that the bump or the plateau or whatever is, it bumps up against the plateau constantly and it's like hard to get on the charger. And you can technically get it on there, but it doesn't feel like it fits flush on there. The other thing is my car, I guess this is not MagSafe, but my car has, uh, chargers that are oriented for 21 by nine-esque phones, 20, 21 by nine phones. And it just can't charge my phone.

• 42:52Andrew Manganelli?

  That's good, cause most cars are going to have it more narrow, cause it doesn't want to slide around when you're driving and that's not going to fit in there.

• 42:58David Imel?

  Any wireless charger that is like at an angle and has your phone sitting up at an angle that does not have MagSafe, will just not work for this phone because it's just too short.

• 43:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, I assume most like, uh, wallets as well that are MagSafe will not fit.

• 43:10David Imel?

  And the battery banks.

• 43:11David Imel?

  They'll be too big, yeah.

• 43:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, yeah, even if they do fit with the plateau, they're going to hang off the bottom.

• 43:16David Imel?

  Right.

• 43:16Andrew Manganelli?

  And just look like hell.

• 43:18David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, even Apple's own like iPhone Air bank is just not going to work on this.

• 43:23David Imel?

  It does not work.

• 43:24David Imel?

  So Apple's going to have to develop new accessories. Manufacturers are going to have to develop accessories just for the Duo.

• 43:31David Imel?

  Wonder if they will or how many they will. Cause like, does it sell that well?

• 43:35David Imel?

  There's so limited supply, like how many people are really going to have.

• 43:38David Imel?

  This is the other thing I wanted to talk about, is that we made this like sort of bet.

• 43:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Which we will never, that bet is no, because we will never be able to tell what happened.

• 43:46David Imel?

  Correct. It is invalid because their demand was way, way, way, way, way ahead of supply. Above supply.

• 43:54David Imel?

  But that's all we know.

• 43:54David Imel?

  We don't know how many they made.

• 43:56David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 43:57David Imel?

  Yeah, so like pre-orders are moved until like January or February now.

• 44:01Andrew Manganelli?

  February, so, some people are reporting they're getting them like pushed forward after they had a long, but I still know plenty of people who are like, this is a February.

• 44:09David Imel?

  Yeah, within like 10 minutes, a lot of people got pushed to January. And Apple is saying, or I mean, Apple would always say our demand is insane. But it seems like the demand is insane, but also we have no idea how many they made.

• 44:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 44:21David Imel?

  So we can't really actually see if my bet was correct or not.

• 44:25Andrew Manganelli?

  No, yeah, I also think it could like lose some sales because people are like, I think so many people ordering this want to order this because it's the new flashy iPhone thing and like, there's a status symbol to this. But if you have it three months late and that's the person you want to be.

• 44:39David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 44:40Andrew Manganelli?

  You've kind of lost the, like, it's nowhere near as much fun anymore.

• 44:44David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 44:44Andrew Manganelli?

  And at $2,000, if you're willing to pay that to be the flashy like gadget, you don't want it three months late.

• 44:51David Imel?

  It's kind of the crazy thing, like you, you think about it again, you're like, wow, this starts at $2,000 and then after tax and everything. And it's like, if you're already going to buy a foldable phone and you're already prepared to spend that money, then it's like, yeah, it's a great. That means the, it's the iPhone foldable, it's awesome.

• 45:06David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 45:07David Imel?

  But $2,000 on a phone is still an insane amount of money, no matter how you slice it. So when you could get a Pro iPhone for 1,200, brand new, it's kind of like, it's a little difficult to buy a Gen one product.

• 45:19David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 45:20David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 45:20David Imel?

  My favorite line in a review that wasn't mine was, uh, in the Verge's review, Neelai mentioned that every once in a while, he'd find himself going back to his iPhone 18 Pro to do something real quick and it was like a relief.

• 45:32David Imel?

  Oh.

• 45:32David Imel?

  And I felt, I felt that a little bit.

• 45:34Andrew Manganelli?

  What you want to hear?

• 45:35David Imel?

  Just like, the slab phone is the better phone.

• 45:39David Imel?

  Right.

• 45:39David Imel?

  For most people, it's the better cameras.

• 45:41David Imel?

  For 20 years.

• 45:42David Imel?

  It's been optimized, all the apps work perfectly, the battery life is great, like you're not making those trade-offs. You have all three cameras, like it's just the better, safer, easier phone for most people to get. And it's just, if you want to be at that bleeding edge, then you will take the risk and you will clearly have a worse experience with some things. And then you get the satisfying other fun stuff that comes with that.

• 46:03David Imel?

  What is kind of exciting about this existing though, is that I think phones that are this size, or at least that are foldable in this way, are just going to go way more mainstream in general.

• 46:14David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 46:14David Imel?

  Cause now that Apple makes this, I mean, all these Android manufacturers already make them, but the, the volume they ship is very low. But I think that Android foldable phone volume will go up and also now Apple is like dou, like they're doubling down on this, right?

• 46:29David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 46:29David Imel?

  So I think that the form factor of a phone will not be as clear cut in five years. It'll be like, there's this phone and then there's this phone. I think that's awesome.

• 46:38David Imel?

  Oh, that, that was one, one other thing I was wondering. Do you think that there will be multiple versions of the Duo in the future?

• 46:45David Imel?

  Oh God, please no.

• 46:47David Imel?

  You don't think so?

• 46:47Andrew Manganelli?

  I think.

• 46:47David Imel?

  I think, I think we have a possible future, like whenever certain cars come out, you're like, well, I know they're going to make a convertible version later, so I'm going to wait. Like, is there going to be a Duo Pro? Like a, like one with triple cameras?

• 46:59Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it needs to last the two years, the two generations first and make sure it doesn't get killed. And then we'll start talking about that.

• 47:05David Imel?

  It would have to be like three grand.

• 47:07Andrew Manganelli?

  That, yeah.

• 47:09David Imel?

  They're not going to have any problem with that. They're happy to sell something three grand.

• 47:13David Imel?

  Oh God, I don't know.

• 47:14David Imel?

  I don't know.

• 47:15David Imel?

  Anyway, that's kind of the, the thoughts. You should watch the review, it's 30 minutes long.

• 47:19Andrew Manganelli?

  I really liked your comparison of it to Vision Pro of like, they did all of these things that makes this feel so high quality and so many things they did right, like how great the glass looks on the, the Vision Pro, how great the clicking experience was.

• 47:35David Imel?

  Sight like.

• 47:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, and then when you start using it, you're like, I kind of wish I had some of the not polished things because usability wise, they're just better.

• 47:44David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 47:45David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 47:46David Imel?

  Well, we'll see, developers, developers, developers, and then second gen, we'll see how it goes.

• 47:50David Imel?

  That's the whole story.

• 47:51David Imel?

  That could have been an alternate title. iPhone Duo review. Developers, developers, developers, wait for the second gen.

• 47:57David Imel?

  Get Steve Ballmer in here ASAP.

• 47:59David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 48:00David Imel?

  All right.

• 48:00David Imel?

  Techtober is a thousand years long.

• 48:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Keep skidding. This is pretty quick though.

• 48:03David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 48:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Cause I think we've talked about it a billion times already.

• 48:06David Imel?

  Pro and tell. Pro and tell.

• 48:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Really? I like, I thought that was an okay one.

• 48:10David Imel?

  Every single one of their event invites is a really cheesy pun.

• 48:13Speaker 04

  I know, but that, this one's worse.

• 48:15David Imel?

  They're all, well, it's sort of, uh, it's clear what we're about to get, which is a new Pro device. And we seem to all be on the same page that the headliner will be a brand new MacBook Pro.

• 48:24Speaker 04

  You don't think it'll be a HomePod Pro Mini?

• 48:27David Imel?

  I would bet Pro Mini Max.

• 48:30David Imel?

  And there's also iPad mini OLED refresh updates that are sort of floating around as well. But I think the thing I'm interested in and what the invite kind of references is a touchscreen OLED MacBook Pro. Now, what will you do with a touchscreen MacBook Pro? I don't really know yet. Will it be pencil support or just finger support? I don't really know yet. Will it be $10 bazillion? I don't really know yet.

• 48:54Speaker 04

  It has to have pencil support. It has to.

• 48:56David Imel?

  It seems likely, but also the iPhone Duo is just now getting a software update to 27.2 that enables pencil support for a pencil that wasn't made for it. And everyone kind of wants like a pencil made for the Duo instead of just using like an old iPad pencil for it.

• 49:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 49:14David Imel?

  Is there going to be a new pencil for a MacBook Pro? I don't know if I want to use the old ones for it. I don't know yet.

• 49:19David Imel?

  I mean, I still think that they didn't even need to do the touchscreen and they could have just added pencil support to the enormous haptic trackpad. Because it's basically the same price as like a small, the same size of the small Wacom tablet.

• 49:30David Imel?

  Trackpad is interesting too.

• 49:31David Imel?

  They should have done that so long ago.

• 49:32David Imel?

  There, but that, the technology is different in a screen and how it senses versus like this metal trackpad. It's really good for fingers. I don't know. See, there's a lot of questions we don't know.

• 49:40Andrew Manganelli?

  It is hard to do. Pencil support on a screen means the hinge, like touching is one thing, but drawing, this hinge would need to be. And there are rumors that there is a reinforced hinge to accommodate it, but like if you're doing a lot of drawing with a pencil on the screen, it has to be rock solid, almost like a kickstand on the back in order to use this as a.

• 50:01David Imel?

  Is Tim the only one who uses a tablet to draw stuff?

• 50:03Speaker 04

  Does Olivia not use one?

• 50:05David Imel?

  Does she too? So we have two tablet users?

• 50:07Speaker 04

  I don't know.

• 50:07David Imel?

  I think I'm going to have to give it to them because like the main thing, I've talked about this in videos before. I, there's lots of touchscreen laptops already. I never find myself using the touchscreen for anything other than a scroll once in a while because it just wobbles back and forth. MacBook Pros are pretty sturdy, but across the spectrum of laptops, there's all kinds of wobbling hinges. So I just don't use the touchscreen.

• 50:27David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 50:28David Imel?

  But the newest, highest end crazy stuff coming out, like these RTX Spark Surface Ultra laptops, they're all touchscreens. They're all like incredible, like tandem OLED displays. Apple is going to catch up with that tech and they're going to offer it. But then like, why would I want to do it? They might have to explain that to users in some extra way we haven't seen yet.

• 50:46David Imel?

  Yeah, which is exciting. I'm excited for us to get a bajillion views for like multiple months. Pretty nice.

• 50:53David Imel?

  People want to know. The people want to know.

• 50:55Andrew Manganelli?

  There's going to be a nano texture touchscreen?

• 50:57David Imel?

  I imagine there will be.

• 50:58David Imel?

  Possible.

• 50:59David Imel?

  Cause the nano texture on the inside of the Duo feels so.

• 51:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, that's better. And there's some iPads with it now, right? I, I feel like I'm still stuck in the nano texture of Pro Display XDR, which is like, do not, don't you dare touch that. Or else you will never, it will never be the same.

• 51:12David Imel?

  I think the same way. Like we had those Pro Displays, like nano textures come a long way. Those early ones, horrible, never touched them. And then they made a nano texture iPad and I was like, oh, oh, that's okay. And then we used it and we're like, oh, it's actually great.

• 51:25David Imel?

  That's dope.

• 51:25David Imel?

  And now it's on the phone, which I, you know, everyone uses all the time. So I think they can do it on a laptop. I still don't think this one's very good for touching. Obviously it's not made for touching, but I'm pointing out my MacBook Pro, which has nano texture.

• 51:36David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 51:37David Imel?

  So it gets dirty. We'll see if they do a different version of that.

• 51:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 51:41Andrew Manganelli?

  One of the rumors is that they're skipping M6 Pro and Max chips. So do we think this is going to be M5?

• 51:46David Imel?

  Skipping M6 Pro and Max. Uh, so probably, yeah.

• 51:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Cause we got M6 previous.

• 51:51David Imel?

  Yeah. I mean, M5 Pro and M5 Max are A+ chips. So I wouldn't be surprised if it had those.

• 51:57Andrew Manganelli?

  So do you think this is going to be a MacBook Ultra? That's like its own category? Or do we think all MacBook Pros are just going to be this OLED touchscreen dynamic island?

• 52:08David Imel?

  Hmm, two things. One, I think it's, it lives separately from the rest of the lineup.

• 52:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 52:14David Imel?

  It's the touchscreen one. But two, they never call it what we think they're going to call it. So if we all think it's going to be the Ultra, that's the only thing that they won't call it.

• 52:22David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 52:22David Imel?

  I don't know what they're going to name it, but it won't be what we think.

• 52:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, but you think it will have a distinct name that's outside the, it's like its own SKU.

• 52:28David Imel?

  It's strange because everyone's saying it's going to be called the MacBook Pro. I think it might just be the MacBook Pro and Pro is going to also include Touch Now.

• 52:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, I feel like usually it's just like an add-on. It doesn't feel in my brain like it's an entire separate SKU.

• 52:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 52:42Speaker 03

  But it's also Apple.

• 52:44Andrew Manganelli?

  When you say add-on, you mean there will be like this, this normal M5 version?

• 52:49Speaker 03

  It's like a touchscreen PS where you add.

• 52:51David Imel?

  I don't think so.

• 52:52Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't think so.

• 52:52David Imel?

  I think all the Pros will have the touchscreen and just the Air will not have the touchscreen.

• 52:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Because I think it's also OLED. I don't think they're going to make an OLED non-touchscreen.

• 53:00David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 53:01Andrew Manganelli?

  And I don't think they're going to have, what is this again? Mini LED, micro LED?

• 53:05David Imel?

  I think this is mini LED.

• 53:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Mini LED and OLED. I don't think they're going to have the same MacBook Pro lineup with mini LED and OLED, like two totally different screens. Just to get touchscreen versus not touchscreen.

• 53:15David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 53:15David Imel?

  I think this, yeah, I think this lands at the top of the lineup above the current MacBook Pro.

• 53:20Andrew Manganelli?

  With its own name.

• 53:20David Imel?

  With its own.

• 53:21David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 53:22David Imel?

  You, I mean, some Windows OEMs will like make multiple SKUs of the same laptop. Like this one has OLED, this one's IPS, this one's blah, blah, blah. But Apple generally does not.

• 53:31Andrew Manganelli?

  I was gonna say, that's, that's Windows?

• 53:32David Imel?

  They try, yeah. They try to make it like simplified for the customer to understand what they're getting in general.

• 53:38Speaker 03

  Sorry, I'm thinking like a Windows.

• 53:39David Imel?

  I know, I know, I know. Yeah.

• 53:41Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know. Yeah. I'm going to, just because you guys are doing that, I'm going to say these are just the new MacBook Pros. They're just OLED with touchscreen.

• 53:47David Imel?

  I think I agree with that, yeah.

• 53:49Andrew Manganelli?

  I think that would be nice. That would really be this like.

• 53:52David Imel?

  I mean, they needed.

• 53:53Andrew Manganelli?

  The second half of 2026.

• 53:54David Imel?

  Apple really needed a, a new differentiating factor for the MacBook Pros because the M chips, yeah, they're getting faster and they're getting better, but they're beyond what most people can use them for already. So they need reasons to sell new SKUs.

• 54:06David Imel?

  It's a hilarious problem to have.

• 54:08David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 54:08David Imel?

  The M1s were so freaking good.

• 54:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Lobster too buttery.

• 54:11David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 54:12David Imel?

  It's just like, stick with your M1 again.

• 54:14David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 54:14David Imel?

  Exactly.

• 54:15David Imel?

  So. So anyway, that's next week. By the time you listen to this, it's just a couple of days out.

• 54:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, just also that iPad mini apparently might have a $200 price increase.

• 54:23David Imel?

  Yeah. Which it sucks because, I mean, it's going to be a better iPad mini, but I want them to offer a lower priced one, which I understand probably can't be a high-end OLED display.

• 54:34David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 54:34David Imel?

  But I just want a cheap iPad mini. Like that's, that's a nice little computer option to have.

• 54:38Andrew Manganelli?

  An iPad mini and an iPad mini Pro. Give us the like, I love my iPad mini.

• 54:42David Imel?

  I kind of wanted that a while ago. I wanted an iPad mini Pro.

• 54:44Andrew Manganelli?

  And this feels like it's going that, although OLED, but possibly still 60 Hz.

• 54:48David Imel?

  Here's my conspiracy theory take.

• 54:50David Imel?

  They better not be 60 Hz. They better not do that.

• 54:53David Imel?

  Conspiracy theory take. Because the iPhone Duo is an iPhone and an iPad mini. They needed to make the iPad mini more expensive because currently it is cheaper to buy an iPhone Pro and an iPad mini. And if they make it more expensive, it'll be around the same price. And then you go, oh, well, why wouldn't I just buy two in one?

• 55:09David Imel?

  There's no way that hasn't happened in an Apple meeting. They definitely have thought that. That is really funny.

• 55:15David Imel?

  It's been in a media. I do not think it's the reason why it's going to be more expensive.

• 55:18David Imel?

  Yeah. But it's also, yeah, like if I want, right now, if I want a seven inch, 120 Hz OLED display from Apple, the iPhone Duo is the only way to get it. But if Apple can sell you an iPhone and a high-end iPad mini, they would rather also sell, sell you two things.

• 55:34David Imel?

  Hundred percent.

• 55:35David Imel?

  So they would happily sell that.

• 55:36David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 55:36David Imel?

  As well.

• 55:37David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 55:38David Imel?

  Well, we'll find out pretty soon.

• 55:40David Imel?

  All right, well, next on the podcast after the break, we're going to talk about the most controversial thing that's ever happened in history.

• 55:46David Imel?

  I don't think the Mission S is that controversial.

• 55:48David Imel?

  Oh, I was talking about the Big Bang.

• 55:49David Imel?

  Oh, right. But we'll get there. In the meantime, trivia.

• 55:58Speaker 04

  All right, guys. Earlier you were talking about Google apps that you think might not ever get official iPhone Duo support.

• 56:06David Imel?

  Yeah, all of them.

• 56:07Speaker 04

  I scoured the internet and I can tell you that on the iOS App Store, Google has listed 71.

• 56:16David Imel?

  Damn.

• 56:16Speaker 04

  Applications.

• 56:18David Imel?

  That's a lot.

• 56:18David Imel?

  71?

• 56:19Speaker 04

  71. I thought it was 47. It's a lot. What I need you guys to do. Oh, boy.

• 56:25David Imel?

  Oh, my God.

• 56:26Speaker 04

  Name is many? No, no, no, no. Okay.

• 56:28David Imel?

  As many as possible.

• 56:29Speaker 04

  Write down just one, but one Google app. And whichever one of your apps was last updated the longest ago gets the point for this question.

• 56:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I throw same question, but a potential for three points?

• 56:44Speaker 04

  I'm interested.

• 56:45Andrew Manganelli?

  You can pick, you have to write down three of the apps, but if any of your apps match one of the other person's, you lose.

• 56:52Speaker 04

  Now, three of these apps were updated today.

• 56:57Andrew Manganelli?

  So don't pick those.

• 56:58David Imel?

  Bug fixes and improvements.

• 56:59David Imel?

  That's exciting.

• 56:59David Imel?

  But not Duo support.

• 57:01David Imel?

  Unfortunately. Well, we'll think about that. Answers will be at the end like usual. We'll be right back.

• 57:17David Imel?

  Support for Waveform comes from Framer. When it comes to your website, you shouldn't have to choose between something that looks and feels handcrafted and something that's fast to ship. With Framer, you can have both. Framer is the pro AI website builder for creators, teams, and businesses that want a professional site and care enough to get every detail right. Agents and humans work in tandem, so agents bring speed and scale, and people bring taste and judgment and control. The agents in Framer work alongside teams to streamline collaboration on the same canvas, build custom code components, create and manage CMS content, optimize SEO settings, and ship everything all in one place. And the agent works in the same place where the real site is designed, managed, reviewed, and published. Join brands like Perplexity and Miro and start building your website in Framer today.

• 58:01David Imel?

  Learn how you can get more out of your site from a Framer specialist or get started building for free today at framer.com/wave for 30% off the Framer Pro Annual Plan. That's framer.com/wave for 30% off. Framer.com/wave. Rules and restrictions may apply. Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. So AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from, but when that context is scattered across different tools, threads, and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying blind. That's the problem that Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all of these pieces together from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more, so nothing falls through the cracks.

• 58:44David Imel?

  With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot. Assign them work directly or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com. That's J-I-R-A dot com.

• 59:06Speaker 06

  Support for the show comes from Google Gemini. You know that moment when curiosity strikes? You're exploring a new city with the family and a sculpture catches your daughter's eye. What is that? Who made it? With Gemini, you can snap a picture and get a fully interactive breakdown of its history, architecture, and even hidden secrets. Gemini is built for moments like that. Whether you're learning something new, solving a problem, or looking for your next favorite thing, Google Gemini is here to help. Download Gemini, Google's AI app, or visit gemini.google.com to learn more.

• 59:44David Imel?

  All right, welcome back. Let's talk about the other event that happened between the last podcast episode and now, the new car.

• 59:52Andrew Manganelli?

  I want to reiterate there.

• 59:53David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 59:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Between the last, like, there were so many comments last week. They're like, why don't you guys cover the Tesla Roadster? Why didn't you? I can't believe they didn't delay the recording.

• 1:00:02David Imel?

  It was a Thursday night.

• 1:00:04Andrew Manganelli?

  The podcast was uploaded before the event started. We released at 4:00 AM on Friday. By the time we finished recording, we would have been due.

• 1:00:12David Imel?

  Yeah. That being said, I did put a video out reacting to it and explaining all my thoughts the next morning, but there are so many more things to talk about, and so we will. Tesla Roadster. Tesla had their Roadster event again, finally. The one that was delayed and then delayed again and then delayed again. It happened. It was October 15th. And it was pretty insane. Where do I even start? So they announced the new look of the Roadster. Looks totally different. They have made a completely different car. And all of this talk, all of this hype about it being a SpaceX collab turned out to be true because that's the one thing that they demoed. They had people attend in real life to witness the car drive up a giant half-pipe-looking

• 1:00:55David Imel?

  ramp and then upside down and then flip off of it and do like a barrel roll and land on its tires and drive away. It did a huge jump over a bunch of Tesla products.

• 1:01:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Kickflip.

• 1:01:06David Imel?

  It was pretty crazy.

• 1:01:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Can you describe the car first for if somehow you did not see this video in the last week?

• 1:01:12David Imel?

  Okay, so for podcast audio-only listeners, picture a mid-modern Lamborghini, not like the latest Lamborghini, but like a Gallardo or a, not a Countach, but a little newer, like an old Huracan. It's like a wedge-shaped car with like triangles everywhere. The headlights are triangles. It's a very like low poly type of like aggressive look.

• 1:01:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Like Cybertruck supercar.

• 1:01:36David Imel?

  I think Cybertruck will get comps a lot because it's, again, very low poly and it's only one color. It's just silver.

• 1:01:42Andrew Manganelli?

  It's only that color?

• 1:01:43David Imel?

  I haven't seen any other color.

• 1:01:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, I haven't either.

• 1:01:45David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:46Andrew Manganelli?

  I was wondering if it's only silver and it's like the Cybertruck route of like it's pretty defined lines.

• 1:01:51Speaker 04

  Guys, this is product questions and details. We're not going to know stuff about colors for years.

• 1:01:57Andrew Manganelli?

  That's what this podcast is for.

• 1:01:59David Imel?

  I'm just describing what I saw, you know? But yeah, then it's got these like pop-down headlights. And then at the back, there's this huge active rear wing. And then the back of the car has these exhaust pipes and fans, which is kind of...

• 1:02:12Andrew Manganelli?

  It's an EV. There's no exhaust.

• 1:02:14David Imel?

  Yeah, you're probably thinking, why is there exhaust pipes on this car? And that's because there are cold gas thrusters positioned all around the car. So I think the easiest way to understand this is there's four trims of the Tesla Roadster. This is, this is how you can, you can go to their website, like they didn't, this is the problem, they didn't say this at the event, but there are four trims of the Tesla Roadster. The base Tesla Roadster is just the EV, 100 kilowatt-hour battery pack, whatever, rear-wheel drive, or 1 megawatt of power, which is 1,300 horsepower.

• 1:02:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:39David Imel?

  Just a fast EV.

• 1:02:40Andrew Manganelli?

  And that was, we only found that out because of the interviews some of the engineers did later. It is not listed on the website. We don't actually have any specs on what it were. We're just assuming it is car that looks like Roadster.

• 1:02:51David Imel?

  Big shout out to Hagerty, Motor Trend, and Top Gear, who all asked lots of interesting questions of Lars and Franz after the, or before the event and like published their videos. This is where most of my information comes from. So there's the base Roadster. Then there's the performance version of the Roadster, which has a fan system underneath. The fan system, if you haven't seen the McMurtry spiraling, is basically just a huge set of fans at the back of the car that are connected to the bottom of the car that suck the air out from under the car, creates a low-pressure zone, pulls the car into the ground, and gives it multiples of grip. It's great. Makes it corner really fast and gives it grip where other cars don't have because active aero needs a lot of speed.

• 1:03:32David Imel?

  Then there's the thruster version of the car, which has that and adds four rocket thrusters to the back of the car. They're connected to a 200-liter, uh, carbon overwrapped pressure vessel that's sitting right behind the driver's head and holds about 100 kilograms of compressed nitrogen at about 10,000 PSI that can burst for about four to five seconds, sends you 0 to 60 in under one second, and then it's empty. Then there's the highest-end rocket version of the car, which adds another double-sized 400-liter carbon overwrapped pressure vessel in the passenger seat next to the driver,

• 1:04:14David Imel?

  making it a one-seater, and also adds six other thrusters around the car facing down and facing sideways for yaw control. And that's the one that performs, you know, the crazy trick that could theoretically jump or turn in midair. That one on their website says it's by invite only and is not approved for public use, obviously.

• 1:04:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, the thrust version is limited, and then the performance one you can just reserve. There are, performance is 5,000 down now, 45,000 due in 10 days. Thrust is 5,000 down now, 245,000 due in 10 days. And then we don't know base or rocket pricing.

• 1:04:52David Imel?

  Yeah. So all of that is pretty theoretical because, again, this car was announced like many, many years ago, and now it's pushed to 2028 and still doesn't exist. We saw that one demo car. They did a couple demos in front of people, in front of a live audience, but like, still, I sort of ended my impressions video of the event saying, look, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, mm-mm. No, won't get fooled again. I obviously have been waiting for a Roadster for a long time and, you know, they, they do this big show, this crazy demo. It is no, is no question an incredible demo and like a really fun thing for people to watch. And then the product itself, like details just don't make it out.

• 1:05:36David Imel?

  Like, that's not even important to this thing at all.

• 1:05:38Speaker 04

  Well, hold on. You did leave out three really important details about the car from this. The first is that, and these are exact quotes. The car will be sentient. That's an exact quote about the Roadster.

• 1:05:52David Imel?

  That was a tweet later?

• 1:05:52Speaker 04

  That was a tweet later.

• 1:05:53David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:54Speaker 04

  It will be able to perform all of those maneuvers autonomously. So there will in theory be no control system for the Roadster. And at Tesla HQ, they are building a life-sized Hot Wheels track for Roadster owners to perform any of these stunts themselves. In fact, the exact quote is crazier even than Hot Wheels.

• 1:06:17David Imel?

  Yeah. One other thing is Elon said onstage live during the event, they just sort of like asked how fast should the top speed be because they're sort of re-announcing all of the specs. And, you know, if you ask Franz or Lars in the engineering sessions, they're like, it'll go 230, it'll go 235, it'll go 250 or whatever. And then Elon goes, I think it should be able to go half the speed of sound, which for those who are doing the quick math, yeah, that's 380 miles an hour, which no production car has ever done, and it'll be probably 50 years before another car like even gets close to that. Tires can't do that right now. That's just not going to happen. But he did say that onstage. So yeah, where do we even start?

• 1:06:58David Imel?

  I guess the main thing everyone's wondering is why should it do that?

• 1:07:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Let's start at just the three demos and like in a vacuum.

• 1:07:07David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:07Andrew Manganelli?

  What the three demos were. They were impressive and also

• 1:07:13David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Raised some questions.

• 1:07:14David Imel?

  Okay, so the fan car demo, that first one, driving up this super smooth ramp and then coming back down because it's a fan car. Really cool demo, not the first time we've seen it. The McMurtry Spearling that I mentioned earlier is a fan car that's been in development very publicly and on social media for a long time, which is also an EV. It's also a super lightweight, incredibly crazy sports car. And they have literally driven it upside down before because the amount of suction that it creates is more than the mass of the car. So it can drive upside down. It's a cool demo, obviously, but like the practical application of that, if you watch the McMurtry Spearling videos, is that car has so much grip all of the time in a way that Active Aero can't,

• 1:07:58David Imel?

  that it can, it literally can snap like three or four Gs of lateral acceleration, which you'd never see from just tires. So it's, it's really, really great. It breaks track records every time. Uh, it's kind of like a cheat code. It's insane.

• 1:08:13Andrew Manganelli?

  That's, I think that's an important note too, is track records.

• 1:08:16David Imel?

  Yes.

• 1:08:16Andrew Manganelli?

  This thing is, it's Active Aero underneath the car, it's suction, like, these things can only be done on a track and even still, the track has to be perfectly maintained.

• 1:08:27David Imel?

  Smooth track.

• 1:08:27Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, presumably it has mesh in a filter system to not suck up too much stuff, but like, this cannot be used on an average road.

• 1:08:36David Imel?

  Yeah, they're really loud. I don't know if you've seen the videos of the Spearling, but they're super, the fans, they turn them on, there's like a dial of like 10,000, 20,000 RPM. And like, you hear the fans spin up and it's crazy loud. Uh, and then it just, just accelerates in this like 1.4 seconds, zero to 60, this burst, and it's just insane to watch.

• 1:08:55David Imel?

  But yeah, it is, it has this like skirt system that drops down underneath the car to create like a, like a suction area for that low pressure zone. Yeah, like a pressure vacuum. So it's really, really cool. It's a science experiment we've seen in development. And it almost doesn't surprise me that like Tesla comes along with this like big pockets and it's just like, oh yeah, we'll do that too. And then they just throw a bunch of engineering talent at it and they're like, all right, now ours can do the same thing. So that is the first demo that we saw.

• 1:09:21Andrew Manganelli?

  It's cool driving up the wall, really tall, like Ellis said, a half pipe turned on its side. So it's like literally perfectly vertical and just sitting there.

• 1:09:29David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:29Andrew Manganelli?

  That was the first demo. And then the next demo, it does that again, except drives off the upside down part of the top.

• 1:09:37David Imel?

  As one does.

• 1:09:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Flips over and falls down. And you see all the cold gas thrusters shooting all over the place and falling with style.

• 1:09:45David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Down to the ground.

• 1:09:46David Imel?

  If you just take what we watched at face value, then we just watched a 3,000, 4,000 pound object fly through the air and then land. I almost don't even want that to exist on the street. If you've seen the way, if you, obviously it will never exist on the street. It's not street legal. But like the demos that they're doing don't have much practical application. They're just sick demo, basically. So you can't jump over traffic. You can't jump off a bridge to avoid the traffic on the bridge onto another highway overpass or whatever. Like, you can't actually do that anywhere. That's why they will have to build some sort of a private track for rocket roadster owners to demo this thing. Cause that's the only place you can actually use it.

• 1:10:30David Imel?

  They did the demo hundreds of yards away from the live audience and gave them hearing protection. Because the thrusters are so loud, it would be really, really hard to like, listen to that in person, really, really loud stuff. So obviously not street legal, but uh, I think when people watch that, they think, well, some fraction of people go, oh, that's never gonna happen. That's never gonna hit the road. But some other fraction of people think, oh, that's cool. They can jump over traffic.

• 1:10:58Andrew Manganelli?

  I can't really get a gauge on who really thinks that or who just wants to make the coolest AI video on Twitter about jumping over police cars.

• 1:11:05David Imel?

  They're all memes.

• 1:11:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, they're, yeah, they're all feel like memes.

• 1:11:08David Imel?

  Memes have been incredible.

• 1:11:10Andrew Manganelli?

  I wouldn't be surprised if there's people who think that singular thrust is gonna be like, street legal, which I don't, I'm wondering how they're gonna do all of this. Are they gonna have to geofence like these features? Cause that's not something you can just be like, oh, it's illegal to use on the street. Cause some idiot's gonna do it. Like, remember when David Dobrik launched the Model X off that like San Francisco?

• 1:11:32David Imel?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:11:33Andrew Manganelli?

  That would be in the Pacific Ocean if it had like, if they did the thrusters.

• 1:11:38David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:39Andrew Manganelli?

  So like, we can't let people out there even attempt to try and use this thing illegally.

• 1:11:44David Imel?

  Dude, are you a communist?

• 1:11:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Apparently.

• 1:11:46David Imel?

  I've seen, so there's different, in the sports car world, there's different levels of how restricted not street legal things have been. So sometimes there's a mode in the car called track mode. And there's a little fine print that says, do not use on public streets, but you can just turn it on and do it anyway.

• 1:12:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:07David Imel?

  It's probably not illegal, but it's like not recommended and the car will like, not have the liability because it told you not to do it. Then there's things like, uh, you might remember the W1 video. Cars are not allowed to have like things overhanging the back bumper. So if you do, you need some sort of flag on it. Like if you're towing like some food by fours or whatever, you need a flag. So it had this big wing, this LT wing that extended over the back bumper. That's not street legal. You can't have it extend over the back bumper. So they gate that to race mode and then they gate race mode to GPS locations of tracks and drag strips only. So you literally can't enable that feature on a public street, which is another version of this.

• 1:12:45David Imel?

  There's all sorts of little stuff like that, like, uh, this concept car had no windshield wipers, had no side view mirrors. Lars, or maybe it was Franz suggested that you could like, attach the windshield wiper whenever you want and then detach it whenever you want. And same thing with side view mirrors. I talk about this all the time. I think those, that's one of those cases where you have to sell the car with the thing that's required. And then you can make it user removable later. That's another version. But yeah, for a 10,000 PSI cold gas container behind the driver to expel a bunch of gas. I feel like they should really restrict that to not be possible anywhere other than a drag strip.

• 1:13:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:25David Imel?

  That seems like the only place you'd use that.

• 1:13:26Andrew Manganelli?

  And then in terms of the like, the kickflip demo.

• 1:13:29David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Where, first of all, that was the most real life Rocket League thing I've ever seen. Cause it clearly was real. There's people there watching it. But like, when we think of flying, we think of this like gradual takeoff. And this like lifted, and then as it's flipping, looks really strange because you can tell so much of the thrusters are like, calibrating itself mid-flight to be like, okay, overcorrect, undercorrect, figure it out, land nicely. Which looks like the boost rockets in Rocket League where you're like, trying to direct yourself to the ball correctly. Less like flying, more like, I don't even know how to, like mid-air maneuvering.

• 1:14:05David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:06Andrew Manganelli?

  And that, I want to bring up the, the quote Ellis said before. Elon responded to somebody saying that like, you will be able to do this autonomously. My first thought in that was, is this only gonna be able to be done autonomously?

• 1:14:19David Imel?

  The more I hear, the more I think so.

• 1:14:22Andrew Manganelli?

  I think this is gonna be a party trick that you launch with your phone out of the way because a person inside of that thing, even if it lands perfectly, even just the like, jerking your head around, like trying to keep in there, even if it lands perfectly fine.

• 1:14:37David Imel?

  It's like an RC car, basically.

• 1:14:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, that's, that's like the most intense roller coaster you could ever imagine. And that's.

• 1:14:43David Imel?

  So thinking about like, being inside the car, like when you crash test a car, they have to like, make sure that the roof of the car can support the weight of the car. And that's in case of a rollover incident. So if the car rolls over and ends up on its roof, it can support the weight and not crush the driver.

• 1:14:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:59David Imel?

  If this car can jump 20 feet in the air, that means it can fall 20 feet onto its roof.

• 1:15:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Which is glass, right?

• 1:15:04David Imel?

  That's, uh, I don't even know.

• 1:15:06Andrew Manganelli?

  The above shot makes it look like glass.

• 1:15:08David Imel?

  Scissor doors or whatever. I don't even know. But like, you'd never take the liability of having a driver in the car while that happens.

• 1:15:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:15David Imel?

  And then you think about like, okay, doing the flips and stuff. And the way it's described by the engineers and all the things that we, we watched and the demos we watched were all autonomous as well with the flips and stuff. The more you watch that, the more it seems like this is gonna be a thing. Remember the Benny robot that we had? Which does a little kickflip or whatever? It's just a button that you press that can do the maneuver in the right environment. And you don't really have any control over it while it's doing that maneuver.

• 1:15:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Right.

• 1:15:43David Imel?

  And then it's over.

• 1:15:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:44David Imel?

  And you did the party trick. I think that's what it's gonna end up being. The more I see it.

• 1:15:48Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, if it ever gets made.

• 1:15:50David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:50Andrew Manganelli?

  That's the other thing, but yeah.

• 1:15:51David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:51Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, and. It's still crazy to see that. I don't think any, I know it's gonna sound like we're like absolutely poo pooing this thing. And that's just because it's burned us before, but like,

• 1:16:01David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:02Andrew Manganelli?

  It was really, I mean, it's probably the craziest demo we've ever, anyone's ever seen.

• 1:16:07David Imel?

  For sure.

• 1:16:08Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, I actually was watching hockey and I just looked and saw all the Slack notifications going crazy. And you guys were losing it. I was like, I have to see this. We're too busy beating the Rangers, but

• 1:16:20Andrew Manganelli?

  it was one of the craziest demos ever. It's just, it's fine for it to be a crazy demo. And to realize that this is a car that was supposed to release almost 10 years ago, that literally is just doesn't exist anymore. And now this is also two years, 2028, when this quote comes out.

• 1:16:37David Imel?

  Yeah. Lots of unanswered questions because the event was basically like no information at all. But one of the bigger questions is, okay, so for people who bought the other Roadster, they literally, I think Franz called it the middle Roadster, which is funny because it never came out. But for people who like reserved that car, this is a completely different car. Are they going to keep their reservation? Are you entitled to keep your reservation? What, what trim does that get you? What are the prices of the different trims?

• 1:17:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Yep. And that even had like the, um, the Founder's Edition was like a special paint color that you paid more for.

• 1:17:14David Imel?

  So, so what happened was with the Roadster, we've only ever seen with, with the middle Roadster, we've only ever seen red and white. And

• 1:17:22Andrew Manganelli?

  There were two reds though, weren't there? Wasn't there red and Founder's red?

• 1:17:25David Imel?

  I don't even know if it was a different red, but the Founder's series was red and it was the first thousand off the production line. That's all it really got you. It was the highest end thing. And then we started to see like random tweets about like SpaceX packages. And we were like, okay, is the Founder's series also going to include that stuff? And it was like, just wait, this car is gonna fly. And we're like, all right, whatever. So now that we have all these new trims, like base Roadster, performance Roadster, thrust Roadster, rocket Roadster, what happens to the people who put money down on the old car? What happens to people who put $250,000 down a decade ago on what they thought was going to be a 600 mile four seater? And a Roadster, by the way, which means it has a removable roof. This one.

• 1:18:08David Imel?

  I imagine they get the $250,000 thrust version, maybe? I don't know.

• 1:18:12Andrew Manganelli?

  That's, are those people gonna get emails of like, choose your thing? How is, you know, the line gonna work? Of who gets these things first? Like are people back then, which I would think of now, if you're ordering the Roadster now after that demo, you're potentially thousands of people late already from eight years ago who put their reservation in.

• 1:18:32David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Who's getting what?

• 1:18:34David Imel?

  All unanswered.

• 1:18:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. What's coming out first? Like having a limited version of the, the rocket one has the best opportunity of like, sell 10 of these in two years and then it launched. But now the other ones, who knows when those are gonna come out? Tesla loves to have their base cheaper versions, put the really expensive versions out for a while. And then you just never see a $35,000 Cybertruck.

• 1:18:56David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:56Speaker 03

  And I think Mark has sent an image to the Slack the other day. I assume from an agreement when you're signing up for the new Roadster that said, you understand that the Roadster is still under development at the time you entered into this agreement. So we cannot guarantee when your vehicle will actually be delivered or if it will be delivered. And to me, that told me all I need to know.

• 1:19:16David Imel?

  Yeah. So, yeah, this, uh, to me is, so we, we see Halo cars all the time. We see concept cars all the time. This was just a demo whose target audience is not people who ever buy this car. That's the thing. Millions of people are gonna see this. Almost none of them were, were ever going to buy this car. The target audience is people thinking about cars, thinking about Tesla. And it's to try to reposition Tesla in people's heads as a super high tech company that has access to some technology that no other car company has, obviously with the SpaceX collab. And, and then maybe they'll sell some of these and it kind of doesn't really matter. It makes no difference to Tesla if they actually sell them or not. The mission has been accomplished already with the marketing stunt. That's all we can

• 1:19:59David Imel?

  Especially since they don't sell the Model S anymore.

• 1:20:01David Imel?

  Model S and X were canceled because they didn't sell enough.

• 1:20:05David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:06David Imel?

  This by definition will not sell as much as those cars. So you can imagine where it is in the priority list.

• 1:20:12David Imel?

  For sure. It's a halo.

• 1:20:13David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:15David Imel?

  So, yeah, it happened. And then Porsche released another thing too.

• 1:20:18Speaker 04

  Is it, is it even a halo? Really?

• 1:20:20David Imel?

  When I say halo, I mean like, it's what they want people to think about when they think about the brand.

• 1:20:25David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:26Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:20:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Not the highest. Yeah. It was the best marketing.

• 1:20:30Speaker 04

  It's not like other halo cars though, where like you can buy them, you know?

• 1:20:33David Imel?

  Well, there's a lot of halo, that's the thing that's tricky is a lot of these crazy brands have halo cars that are essentially unbuyable.

• 1:20:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:42David Imel?

  You will never see one in the street. A McLaren W1, that's their new halo car. We're never going to see one again. Yeah, now they'll make a thousand of them or whatever it is, and they will eventually, we assume technically make all of these. A lot of them will sit in garages, they'll hit the track sometimes, they'll sit in collections. And that's their halo car, but the cars they actually sell and move on volume are more important to the bottom line. But they don't move those cars unless they have the absolute apex, this is what we're capable of. And here's a taste of the, here's a taste of that technology in the car you're actually buying.

• 1:21:16David Imel?

  Right.

• 1:21:17David Imel?

  You'll never see the Ferrari F80. Like Lamborghini, I'm sure has some crazy thing that we can't buy. Porsche's just announced a new thing, which they will actually mass produce, but

• 1:21:26Speaker 04

  I was gonna say, to play devil's advocate, you know, you just named two halo cars that we will never see because they cost millions of dollars and they're made by manufacturers where all their cars are really expensive and super low quantity. And Tesla is not McLaren, they're not Ferrari.

• 1:21:43David Imel?

  But they want the image of those companies.

• 1:21:45Speaker 04

  But they're a mass production car company, right? So if you're gonna compare it to other halo cars from mass production car companies, like the Toyota Century, which is a super rare car, I've seen one on the road. The upcoming Lexus LFR, we will see that on the road. We've seen Nissan GTRs. Like, like these halo cars are cars that like fundamentally exist and also push a lot of technological boundaries.

• 1:22:10David Imel?

  Yeah. It's, it's kind of like trying to shift their brand image. So like Nissan, Toyota, Honda, a lot of these companies, they're not necessarily selling performance cars to the masses based on their reputation as like winning LeMans or like having the highest end, best Formula One team. And if you want to move from being Tesla and selling, uh, you know, an average like mass produced EV to being able to eventually sell more or have this higher status image, you gotta kind of convince people you have that technology, convince people you have some special sauce. And I guess connecting the dots to SpaceX is them trying to convince people they have that. Which how else would they do it? I guess. And that's the other thing. The end of the Hagerty video, I think made a really good point.

• 1:22:55David Imel?

  So shout out to Henry Catchpole for making the point, which is, so they, they redesigned the Roadster, Roadster 2. It's red. I think all of us agree. That's like a prettier car, like a better looking car, just like a normal looking EV.

• 1:23:08Andrew Manganelli?

  I thought it looked good. I get why they made it. Like it looked really good then, but I think it's not as flashy. This is flashy.

• 1:23:16David Imel?

  Yeah. So they announced that car, they show all the specs, they show all this range and all this performance in the 0 to 60 in under two seconds, right? And then they go, but it's coming out in four years, so wait a while. And then we wait a while and a couple of years go by and we start to see that happen in other places. Like Lucid makes a 1.9 second 060 car, RMAC makes a 1.9 second 060 car, McMurtry Spearlink shows up, has the fan car suction. And suddenly that Roadster isn't really like a halo car anymore. Like it's not really doing anything that we haven't seen before and it doesn't accomplish the mission of being that halo anymore.

• 1:23:56David Imel?

  That's fair, yeah.

• 1:23:56David Imel?

  And so at some point between that 2017 event and now, Tesla decided, never mind, like, we're not doing that. We need something else about Roadster to actually be a halo again. And that's probably when we started seeing like tweets about SpaceX and cold rocket thrusters and, oh, we have a better idea. And they just never communicated about like not ever shipping the thing that we all saw. But they now have a thing that is interesting again. I mean, you see the clicks, you see the people talking about it. Like it is now moved to accomplishing some sort of halo status, even though it again, probably doesn't ever have to ship.

• 1:24:35David Imel?

  And it probably helps that it looks kind of like the Cybertruck because nobody else is going to make a car that looks like the Cybertruck. So if you stick to that similar design, it's not going to like, it's not going to not hold up, right? Like to your point, the Roadster they announced in 2017, looks amazing, but looks like a car. And there are so many cars that look like it now.

• 1:24:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:56David Imel?

  At the time it was, it looked very advanced, but now it looks kind of just like a car.

• 1:24:59David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:59David Imel?

  And so that nobody else is gonna like make something that looks like it.

• 1:25:02Speaker 03

  And I think realistically, like normies are seeing this. Normies are not following Tesla closely. They're just like, oh, he made this car. Great. And like, they won't follow that it doesn't come out. They won't follow, like they change it in 10 years. Like they just see what it is now. And that's the impression that most people are getting.

• 1:25:20David Imel?

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:25:22Speaker 04

  It's so, dude.

• 1:25:24Andrew Manganelli?

  How dare you? How dare you not think? This will be out by next week. I don't know what, any of you are all haters? You don't love technology. I'm gonna, I'm sure your Twitter has been an absolute mess for the last couple of days.

• 1:25:36David Imel?

  But that's because Twitter is full of, um, there are so many people on Twitter who are, have like a vested interest in Tesla's success. Yeah. Who hear any criticism of kind of anything Tesla related as hate, basically. So if I come along and say, wow, really cool demo. I don't think it's gonna ship though. Which is, I think a reasonable thing to say. They hear that as like, what do you mean? You don't believe in the vision? And Elon has landed rockets and caught them before. Like, okay, we know all that, but like, I still don't think it's gonna ship.

• 1:26:09Andrew Manganelli?

  There's like a really hilarious tweet about like, Eight years ago, Marquez was so amped about the Tesla Roadster, blah, blah, blah. What changed? And there's all these people who have been here since, who have been like following Tesla for a decade. We're like, you mean eight years ago when he spent $50,000? Like eight years ago when we all got promised this thing and it's still not out? Like they've been burned before. I feel like a lot of the new, the new Tesla crowd is the post Elon buy Twitter crowd. That's like a little more into it and didn't see the, the beginning of where it all fell apart.

• 1:26:42David Imel?

  Also watch the video.

• 1:26:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:26:45David Imel?

  It's not a negative video. It's just a balanced thoughtful video.

• 1:26:49Andrew Manganelli?

  It's skepticism. It's okay to have skepticism.

• 1:26:52David Imel?

  People are just like, it's just social media. People just pull shit out of context.

• 1:26:55David Imel?

  I mean, the difference, I think I have a lot of respect for the engineers at Tesla who get tasked with these impossible things and who also happen to make like some solid cars. And so the thing that changed from eight years ago is Tesla was really different eight years ago. They were like ramping up and making this new thing called Model 3 and then Model Y. And he's really like, holy crap, we can make like a kind of a cheap like EV that's actually pretty solid and like really efficient too. And like, oh, a front trunk. That's a good idea. Like they had lots of good ideas and we're executing on it. And then mispromise here, mispromise there, overpromise here. Now it's eight years of that later. It's like fool me once. Like that's, it's a different landscape. So that's why it feels different.

• 1:27:35Speaker 04

  I cannot stress enough. I have something to say.

• 1:27:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 1:27:38Speaker 04

  I just, I have two things to say.

• 1:27:41Andrew Manganelli?

  I have seven things to say.

• 1:27:44Speaker 04

  First of all, I just want to say, I cannot stress enough how important it is, if you're even remotely curious about this car, that you watched the entire 30 minute event in full, not clips. Because if you watch it in clips, it might come across like, wow, that's an exciting demo. Wow, that's an exciting demo. Like, look at that. If you watch the full 30 minutes, it becomes so abundantly clear that there was zero preparation done in the actual presentation of this. Almost everything, the thing they say is like so obviously either winged or there's a teleprompter or they're like, oh, we're doing this now. Oh, we're doing this now. So just like zero effort, which is insane to me. And then you'll see the end of the event, which is one of the most shocking things I've ever seen a corporation do on stage,

• 1:28:29Speaker 04

  even for Tesla, where it ends with the crowd yelling questions at Elon. What's the range? What's the price? And Elon just goes, let's do a kickflip again and then dips. Like there's not even a sign off. It's like, watch this kickflip. I'm not answering any questions because this is not a real product.

• 1:28:50Andrew Manganelli?

  But the last time people yelled questions at him, he answered a bunch of things, which was really bad.

• 1:28:55David Imel?

  Let's not get nuanced.

• 1:28:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, because people talking about hardware versions with new autonomous things and he essentially was saying stuff that wasn't, they weren't ready for. And it was either telling people like their hardware might not actually work with full self-driving. It was bad for them.

• 1:29:09David Imel?

  Tesla has a, they've had this for a while where they kind of have like a weird style of events. Like we think, we watch a lot of polished tech events where they're extremely rehearsed and this is their 50th time doing it or it's pre-recorded or whatever. But you watch car company events and they're a little different. They're a little more, here's some music and we're going to roll out the car behind a smokescreen and the cool headlights through the fog and stuff. And like Tesla's style is like, we are talking to the nerds for a little bit. It kind of actually depends on who the target demographic is. Cause if it's just like a stock pump type of event where it's like, look at this cool thing, our halo product.

• 1:29:45Speaker 04

  They are all stock pump.

• 1:29:47David Imel?

  Well, when they're delivering a product.

• 1:29:48Speaker 04

  But think about the last like five Tesla events we've had to watch, dude. Like they're all like, oh, we'll watch, oh, it was nothing again.

• 1:29:54David Imel?

  Like Model 3 and Model Y, I remember those events where they felt the same in terms of like, what are we talking about next? Oh, here's a new slide. Like they had a lot of those moments, which was, I think people found that almost like refreshingly, just here's the new thing. We're just being really straight up about it. But then they've not delivered, I mean, Cybertruck. So they rolled it out and then said it's coming out in a few years. So they didn't really have to give a bunch of details. And then you start seeing that like fade where it's like, people have questions again. How often do you see a tech event where the audience yells out questions and then the CEO answers them? Like that just doesn't happen. So it is kind of a weird vibe.

• 1:30:29Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, I don't even think it's a style. I think to answer you and what you said of like, you said Tesla didn't put any effort into this. I think Tesla puts a lot of effort into it and there's a common denominator in both of your theories on it, that one person screws that up. And that's Elon's winging it up there. No, no. Well, I think the perfect example is in the beginning.

• 1:30:50Speaker 04

  Franz and Lars got on that stage knowing full well, they were pushing snake oil and were saying like, check out our cool thing.

• 1:30:56Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm not saying that.

• 1:30:56Speaker 04

  They're just as culpable in this.

• 1:30:58Andrew Manganelli?

  But right in the beginning of it, there's a part where Elon just starts talking and the timer starts counting down for the demo he's about to do. And they have to cut him off and be like, hold on, hold on, we're doing a demo. Cause he's just completely winging. There's probably a teleprompter there for him and he's just not going off the teleprompter.

• 1:31:14Speaker 04

  It's because they all, Tesla wants to be the Joe Rogan of car companies. They think they can just like be cool, relatable bros, like, and we don't have to know anything. We'll just like get by on our like cool casual chill bro vibe. When that's like not how it works when you're trying to like build products that millions of people will have to use safely and abide by America's strict security laws.

• 1:31:36David Imel?

  There's a, I think there's a big difference between their like Model 3 event and their halo product event. Where if you watch the Model 3 event, which I think I remember pretty clearly, like there were cheers for the spec announcements. They'd be like, it's a, you know, 280 mile range. And people went, whoa, you can do that for this price? And they had like this very logical, sensible, like here is what you need to know about this car. Cause they knew it was their mass produced car and that's the audience for it.

• 1:32:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:32:04David Imel?

  But for a product that is inherently lower audience, like people aren't really watching this, thinking about buying it, then they don't give those details. And then they go way more over the top of like the fanfare and the, look at this cool trick, because that's for that target audience.

• 1:32:19Speaker 04

  Right, right. But there's also a world, again, just playing devil's advocate here, where if you're doing a halo car to be like, look at all this cool tech we have access to. You might want to, you know, express in kilonewtons or like pounds, how much force your fan system can deliver instead of saying, quote, "It can suck the chrome off a tailpipe."

• 1:32:37David Imel?

  I think that was my biggest issue with the event was when I watched Lars and Franz in those three videos after the fact, they did talk like that. And they gave us like the 10,000 PSI carbon overrode pressure vessels. And they told us the 1.3, the one megawatt of power, the 1300 horsepower from a rear wheel drive car. And even to the journalist credits, like they were asking questions like, so why is it rear wheel drive? And they would answer, we think it's a better driver's experience. We're trying to save weight. And they would give like, we're hitting hopefully 1700 kilograms with this car. All this technical information, none of which made it to the presentation. Because the target audience for the presentation is millions and millions of people who don't know what that means and won't make a difference to them.

• 1:33:21Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, or even because Elon's up there might be like, I think we could go a little faster than that. And now everything they've just said is null and they have to try and fix it.

• 1:33:29David Imel?

  Yeah. Like what do you think makes, positions them better as a crazy tech rocket car company? One, uh, 1,300 horsepower rear wheel drive, smaller, higher density power unit connected to 115 kilowatt hour battery with double cooling? Or look at this fucking kickflip. It'll also go half the speed of sound.

• 1:33:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:33:49David Imel?

  Like the snake oil bullshit that they say on stage, people love that. They eat it up. So that's what they do.

• 1:33:57Andrew Manganelli?

  My last thought on this was this event feels like it all but confirms that the Cybercab bet is totally safe because no one, we're like, we're not even like.

• 1:34:07David Imel?

  I mean, I knew already, but yeah, that is safe. That is very safe.

• 1:34:11Andrew Manganelli?

  There's so much focus on this. Cybercab can just do whatever it wants. Um, it will continue to be geofenced. It will probably roll out some more things in Austin, maybe two other cities.

• 1:34:20David Imel?

  Remote taxi service is like a kind of a slowly expanding thing, but you are not going to buy a Cybercab this year. Sorry.

• 1:34:25Speaker 04

  I'll see you on the, the life-size Hot Wheels track, Marquez.

• 1:34:29David Imel?

  That'll be the one place that someday cars will fly, allegedly.

• 1:34:35David Imel?

  Hey, look, they can fly, but for only one second.

• 1:34:37David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:37David Imel?

  So, well, I greatly anticipate a bunch of clips from this podcast getting clipped out of context.

• 1:34:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes, none of us should go on Twitter for the next two weeks.

• 1:34:46David Imel?

  Yeah, it's a good time.

• 1:34:47Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, evergreen, but.

• 1:34:49David Imel?

  Word to all my haters.

• 1:34:51Speaker 04

  Elizabeth Holmes is in jail right now for pretty much exactly this. And we're just like, whatever, let's.

• 1:34:57David Imel?

  When you, look, Ellis.

• 1:35:00David Imel?

  In America, when you steal from investors, you go to prison. When you steal from regular people, that's just a normal day at the office.

• 1:35:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Clip that.

• 1:35:11Speaker 03

  We're going to hard pivot, everybody.

• 1:35:14David Imel?

  Just like the roadster when it does a barrel roll.

• 1:35:19Speaker 03

  So cool. Okay.

• 1:35:23David Imel?

  Thanks, mom.

• 1:35:25Speaker 03

  Taking it back to the duos. There have been many iconic duos throughout history. Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, keyboard and mouse, peanut butter and jelly. Simon and Garfunkel, if that's your thing. But what iconic tech duo had a feature called knock knock? Simmer on that.

• 1:35:46David Imel?

  Well, I've used that. What is that from?

• 1:35:47David Imel?

  I have also.

• 1:35:48Speaker 03

  Don't say it out loud.

• 1:35:49David Imel?

  Oh, what phrasing. Good phrasing. That's a good question. I know this one.

• 1:35:57Speaker 03

  I can say it again if you need to hear it again.

• 1:35:58David Imel?

  Can you say it again?

• 1:36:00Speaker 03

  What iconic tech duo had a feature called knock knock?

• 1:36:09David Imel?

  Great, great, great question.

• 1:36:11Speaker 03

  It was phrased originally too easy, so we made it a little more ambiguous.

• 1:36:15David Imel?

  Perfect. I love that they're scratching their heads. This is great. All right. Well, I'm going to get a trivia point later. We'll be right back.

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• 1:37:58David Imel?

  All right, welcome back. I was kind of joking, but not really joking. I actually do want to briefly talk about Porsche's car event that happened the same day as Tesla's car event.

• 1:38:05Andrew Manganelli?

  It was the same day?

• 1:38:06David Imel?

  It was the same day.

• 1:38:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:38:07David Imel?

  Which is really funny. So Porsche also announced a concept car. See if you can spot the similarities and the differences between Porsche's style announcing a concept car and what we just talked about for the last, I don't know, hour of Tesla announcing a concept car. Okay.

• 1:38:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Biggest difference I heard at the roadster.

• 1:38:26David Imel?

  Well, okay, so Porsche, just for a little bit of background, they do mass produce cars, but it's funny. They are very much a sports car company that also happens to sell crossovers like the Macan and the Cayenne, like a family SUV type of thing in much more volume, which specifically allows them the money to develop better sports cars. Does that make sense as like a business model? So people know Porsche as a sports car company, even though most of their sales are actually not sports cars. Okay. So for the longest time, very, very long time, they have only made really two sports cars, which is the Cayman and the 911. You've probably heard about these cars. The Cayman is their sort of entry level-ish mid-range sports car. It's very small.

• 1:39:11David Imel?

  We had one like a GT4 a while ago. I don't know if you saw it. And then the 911, which is like their halo, highest end sports car. They also have made extremely high-end halo products with crazy technologies that you can kind of never really buy, but a few people could buy, like the 918 Spider or the Ferrari GT. Kind of legendary cars.

• 1:39:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Lot of words for sure.

• 1:39:31David Imel?

  So, I mean, that again.

• 1:39:32Andrew Manganelli?

  David's following.

• 1:39:33David Imel?

  918 Spider, 1,000 horsepower, hybrid, convertible, like super limited edition, $2 million car.

• 1:39:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 1:39:39David Imel?

  You've probably never seen one.

• 1:39:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Correct.

• 1:39:41David Imel?

  But oh my God, what a car. Okay, so that means that the highest end mass-produced car that they've made for all this time has been the 911, which is a rear engine car. And they have made a bunch of variants of the 911. They have made this lightweight rear-wheel-drive version. I'm oversimplifying car people, please have mercy. But they have an all-wheel-drive hybrid version. They have a bunch in between. And they sort of range between like $100,000 new and like $300,000 new because they're high-end sports cars.

• 1:40:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:07David Imel?

  So what Porsche just introduced is a car to compete with what a lot of the other high-end brands like Ferrari and Lamborghini have been putting out lately, which is this like $600,000 range of car.

• 1:40:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 1:40:22David Imel?

  Which has, you know, hybrid systems and way more power and all this stuff. And like, they haven't really been competing because the 911 is the highest-end car that they've mass-produced. So it's the Mission S. It is a new design, which has a lot of like hidden cues of like the greatest hits of their old designs. It is mid-engine and they announced no specs at all. They simply showed the design of the concept car, the outside. They opened the doors, they showed you the inside. There's very few screens. They have a MagSafe mount for a phone. But these really cool seats, this harness seat, and it's mid-engine. It's got quad tailpipes, these really cool headlights and DRLs.

• 1:41:01Andrew Manganelli?

  The back kind of has Luce vibes of this like car inside of a car.

• 1:41:05David Imel?

  Oh, car inside of a car.

• 1:41:07Andrew Manganelli?

  It's like a curved on the outside and then another curve on the inside.

• 1:41:10David Imel?

  100%. Believe it or not, that's referential to another older Porsche that kind of had the same look and had some racing success. So that's like a nice touch for historians, but I agree.

• 1:41:18Andrew Manganelli?

  But it looks like the wing comes up and then it doesn't look like that. But when the wing's down.

• 1:41:22David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:23David Imel?

  So they announce this car, they show it off. They do not announce a price. They do not announce the engine. They do not announce the performance. They just said, here's the car. It's going to come out later. Trust me. And that's it.

• 1:41:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I ask a question?

• 1:41:39David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Are Porsche fans like really mad at that?

• 1:41:42David Imel?

  Porsche fans are mostly loving this car.

• 1:41:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Really?

• 1:41:45David Imel?

  Yes.

• 1:41:46Andrew Manganelli?

  I was gonna say the difference here is I would assume most Porsche fans and like car enthusiasts would be really pissed off that there's not a lot of specs in that. And the difference is that I assumed they would be mad, whereas the Tesla fans were like.

• 1:41:58David Imel?

  Fair enough.

• 1:41:59Andrew Manganelli?

  If they had a kickflip, that's cool.

• 1:42:00David Imel?

  Yeah, so Porsche has a reputation for making really good cars. So there is an expectation that Porsche will eventually deliver what they're showing us and that it will be really good. So I think people give them the benefit of the doubt in a lot of ways. There's a lot of speculation of like, oh, there's a fan on the top and this is probably cooling like a flat eight instead of a flat six. Oh, it's probably going to sound really good. It looks like it has a height, like we're looking into a lot of things, thinking about what they might do.

• 1:42:25Andrew Manganelli?

  What's a flat eight and a flat six?

• 1:42:27David Imel?

  That's the number of cylinders in.

• 1:42:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 1:42:31David Imel?

  And it affects the sound characteristics of the car a lot as well.

• 1:42:34Andrew Manganelli?

  So that's what the big hole in the top of the car is for?

• 1:42:36David Imel?

  The big hole in the top of the car, you see the fan?

• 1:42:38Speaker 04

  That's where the guy sits.

• 1:42:40David Imel?

  There's a fan.

• 1:42:41Andrew Manganelli?

  He's talking about the back of the car, if you go to the back. No, that's a.

• 1:42:45David Imel?

  Oh, the front of the car you're looking at is a front trunk.

• 1:42:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Actually, they're like, they're like hood scoop on the roof.

• 1:42:50David Imel?

  The scoop. There's a, yeah, there's a hood scoop on the roof, which just sucks in cold air from the front to cool the engine in the middle of a car.

• 1:42:55Andrew Manganelli?

  But he's talking about.

• 1:42:56David Imel?

  But you're talking about.

• 1:42:57Andrew Manganelli?

  See back here, there's like a fan.

• 1:42:58David Imel?

  No, I was talking about the hood scoop. Yeah, the hood scoop is cool. We love a hood scoop. The back of the car has a fan. We love that.

• 1:43:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Got it.

• 1:43:04David Imel?

  But anyway, a lot of the praise from Tesla, from Porsche fans is about the design decisions. Like they have this metal key that actually sticks into the car and turns, which they got rid of in the 911.

• 1:43:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 1:43:14David Imel?

  They have a lot of things like.

• 1:43:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, so it's a key?

• 1:43:17David Imel?

  Well, it's not like shaped like a key. It's the key fob.

• 1:43:21Andrew Manganelli?

  You just described a regular.

• 1:43:22David Imel?

  Keys, I realize what I'm doing. I realize what I'm doing.

• 1:43:25Andrew Manganelli?

  It's like this metal thing that goes and you turn it.

• 1:43:28David Imel?

  And I am literally describing a key, but it's like the key fob has a place in the car where it sits.

• 1:43:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:34David Imel?

  And obviously connects the car and lets you, it's like not quite push to start, but it sits in the car and the car knows that you're in it. You can turn it on, but you also turn it on by turning it. So it's effectively a key.

• 1:43:43Andrew Manganelli?

  And you also turn it without that. It's a, it's a key in reverse almost. It's like.

• 1:43:47David Imel?

  What?

• 1:43:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. It's like.

• 1:43:49David Imel?

  A negative key?

• 1:43:50Andrew Manganelli?

  It, it, no, look at it. It kind of is.

• 1:43:52David Imel?

  It's the chamber, has a slot on it.

• 1:43:53Andrew Manganelli?

  It's got the key part.

• 1:43:54David Imel?

  It's the key chamber.

• 1:43:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Indented, yeah.

• 1:43:56David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:56Andrew Manganelli?

  A portable key chamber.

• 1:43:58David Imel?

  But like, they also did the thing, so in the 911, they famously, in this recent generation, got rid of the beautiful like analog tachometer with the real needles and it's just screens now.

• 1:44:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:07David Imel?

  In this Mission S, we're back to real physical gauges that like move out and separate and like have these beautiful lights behind them. Super, super intricate stuff. And the biggest complaint I've seen really is that, oh gosh, Porsche is making all the stuff we love, but in the $600,000 car instead of the 911.

• 1:44:24Andrew Manganelli?

  It's not accessible.

• 1:44:25David Imel?

  But generally, a lot of good vibes around this car, which has no specs, no price, no performance claims, no release date. It's just, here's the concept. You love it, don't you?

• 1:44:36Andrew Manganelli?

  And so people are not mad about that.

• 1:44:38David Imel?

  Not really.

• 1:44:39Andrew Manganelli?

  It sounds like people are just happy they're getting the things back that they used to like before that Porsche took away from them.

• 1:44:45David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, here's my other question is if it's a concept car, don't most car manufacturers show off concept cars and then never make them?

• 1:44:52David Imel?

  Yeah, so I think there's different levels of that. I think there is like the CES concept car, which is like, here's a thing that is really legitimately just a concept that we could make, but we don't plan on it. And then there's, here's the name of the model.

• 1:45:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Right.

• 1:45:07David Imel?

  Here is all the stuff that we've developed. It's going to come out.

• 1:45:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:11David Imel?

  So the Taycan, before it came out, was the Porsche Mission E concept.

• 1:45:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 1:45:16David Imel?

  And it had like these cool wheels and it was their electric concept car. And then a year or two later, they ship it and it's slightly modified, but it's the Taycan.

• 1:45:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Got it. It's close.

• 1:45:24David Imel?

  So that's like a different level of concept. Like they're going to make the thing.

• 1:45:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 1:45:28David Imel?

  So.

• 1:45:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Not like the Hyundai, um, the N70.

• 1:45:32David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:33Andrew Manganelli?

  N74.

• 1:45:34David Imel?

  That one, I got the vibe was gonna get made, but then there were too many questions.

• 1:45:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Will and then they say it won't. Yeah, that felt like it went back and forth, like this isn't getting made. And then everyone talked about it and it's like, oh no, maybe it won't.

• 1:45:44David Imel?

  They like switched their drivetrain claims. It was going to be like a hybrid and then they had something about, uh, it was going to be a generator. I don't remember what they're going to do.

• 1:45:52Andrew Manganelli?

  It was, yeah, I don't remember.

• 1:45:54David Imel?

  Yeah, but it wasn't.

• 1:45:54Andrew Manganelli?

  It was like gas or something.

• 1:45:56David Imel?

  It was like.

• 1:45:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Or hydrogen.

• 1:45:57David Imel?

  Nitrogen.

• 1:45:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:57David Imel?

  Something weird.

• 1:45:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Hydrogen.

• 1:45:59David Imel?

  Something weird. Anyway, that doesn't, you can't buy that yet, obviously.

• 1:46:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:02David Imel?

  So, yeah, I don't know. Similar to Tesla, no real information on the car other than a design on stage and some cool tricks like gauges that move. It's not a kickflip, but.

• 1:46:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Tesla's like, ours flies.

• 1:46:14David Imel?

  Different target demographic.

• 1:46:15Andrew Manganelli?

  We reinvented the key.

• 1:46:17David Imel?

  Very different target demographic. Like this one has like a very, uh, like an analog looking shifter. It's not a manual car, but it does have this sweet looking like gear shifter.

• 1:46:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:25David Imel?

  Totally different target demo.

• 1:46:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:27David Imel?

  But it's not, to be clear, a halo car. It's a mass-produced car above the 911 and they will still have crazy halo cars.

• 1:46:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:36Speaker 03

  I guess my question is, are they taking your money for this now?

• 1:46:39David Imel?

  Not yet.

• 1:46:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:40Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:46:40David Imel?

  Not yet.

• 1:46:41Andrew Manganelli?

  It's not a Warthog. It's a.

• 1:46:42David Imel?

  Yeah, to be, that's a big difference. Tesla's taking your money right now. Porsche is not announcing a price or taking your money right now.

• 1:46:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Tesla's been taking your money for eight years.

• 1:46:50David Imel?

  Yeah. So I assume when you're closer to real mass production, Porsche will announce a price. They will start whatever allocation process they have and people will start to try to buy this thing. Yeah. I won't, I like it a lot. I won't. I want to leave, I just want to sit in it. It looks so good.

• 1:47:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Hmm.

• 1:47:07David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Does it?

• 1:47:09David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:09Andrew Manganelli?

  I feel like.

• 1:47:10David Imel?

  I mean, in white.

• 1:47:11Andrew Manganelli?

  I kind of like it in some parts.

• 1:47:12David Imel?

  They do the same with their concept cars where they make them in white and they give them like white wheels. And it's a little much for me. I would never get it in that color, but some of the other renders I've seen in other colors, mm.

• 1:47:21Andrew Manganelli?

  My biggest gripe is the door looks like, just like it doesn't match the rest of the car.

• 1:47:27David Imel?

  Interesting.

• 1:47:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Right? Like it has this nice hard line and then the door happens and it goes away and it's this like shadow.

• 1:47:32David Imel?

  It's like a shadow.

• 1:47:32Andrew Manganelli?

  And then the line comes back on the back panel.

• 1:47:34David Imel?

  Interesting, yeah. It would have been cool if they kept the line through the whole car.

• 1:47:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, sorry I ruined it for you.

• 1:47:39David Imel?

  Yeah, nevermind, I don't like it anymore.

• 1:47:41Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't want to play with you anymore.

• 1:47:43David Imel?

  Okay. But yeah, that happened the same day and obviously was overshadowed on, uh, social media by the one that flipped over upside down.

• 1:47:50Andrew Manganelli?

  You know, under promise, over deliver. We'll say that forever. I have a feeling both of these are overpromising.

• 1:47:57David Imel?

  Well, Porsche is not really promising anything.

• 1:48:00David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:00David Imel?

  Just that it might look like that.

• 1:48:02David Imel?

  Pretty much.

• 1:48:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Fair.

• 1:48:03David Imel?

  Mid-engine.

• 1:48:04David Imel?

  Not that it goes half the speed of sound.

• 1:48:06David Imel?

  Yeah. The only real promise that gets people going is it lives above the 911. And like, the 911 is a really high-end car.

• 1:48:13Andrew Manganelli?

  The Roadster lives above the 911? When it's doing a kickflip over it?

• 1:48:18David Imel?

  Yeah. Anyway, that's all. That's my, uh, that's my brief Cars Corner.

• 1:48:21Speaker 04

  But you know what is 100% real confirmed? You can have it right now and I won't even take a single cent from you.

• 1:48:28David Imel?

  My trivia point?

• 1:48:29Speaker 04

  You're, oh yeah, there you go. Also, everyone, I see you tweeting at me that people have figured out how to get developer access into WebOS TVs and are building their own, uh, little things. That's awesome. Uh, I'm working, I'm doing it a different way at home. I'll talk about it on a future episode. But I do see that this exists. Um, and same with Android TVs.

• 1:48:50David Imel?

  I saw this morning that people were, uh, vibe coding their own TV UIs and someone made a Wii one.

• 1:48:55Speaker 04

  Yeah. Oh, send me that. I got, I wanna see that. It's pretty interesting and I think, I won't talk about it too long. I think the thing that a lot of people are realizing is the way you do it, it's a little bit easier on Android TV than WebOS is that you essentially give yourself developer access over Wi-Fi so that you can hit the console from a separate machine. And I think a lot of people ask Claude, like, hey, get into my TV and let me do this. And then Claude did it and they were like, wait, you can get in dev mode to my TV just by being on the same Wi-Fi network? Anyway, it's a little more complicated. There's some other stuff like that. We also didn't get to talk about the crazy, the, the, that's the certificate issuing company in India.

• 1:49:36Speaker 04

  For all my ICANN nerds that watched our seven secret history keys internet episode.

• 1:49:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:42Speaker 04

  Uh, there was a really crazy piece of security key news that hit the internet yesterday.

• 1:49:48David Imel?

  Wait, really?

• 1:49:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, the TLDR, like, I know we gotta do trivia and wrap up this episode. The TLDR is like, you know how there are those certificate issuing, uh, companies that generate like giant numbers? And then when you do your HTTPS, it confirms that number and then you get the, the lock and you know you're actually on the site the DNS promised?

• 1:50:09David Imel?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:50:10Speaker 04

  A bunch of keys got leaked from a major one of those certificate issuers in India.

• 1:50:14David Imel?

  Oh.

• 1:50:14Speaker 04

  One of the keys, uh, so the numbers are supposed to be like 100 digits long in GAS and like 300 digits long in binary, something like that. Uh, one of the, uh, one of the keys was four. Uh, not four digits.

• 1:50:31David Imel?

  Just the?

• 1:50:32Speaker 04

  Just the number four.

• 1:50:33David Imel?

  Are you, what?

• 1:50:34Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:50:34David Imel?

  What?

• 1:50:36Speaker 04

  Incredible. Anyway, guys, there are 71 Google apps listed on the iOS App Store.

• 1:50:42David Imel?

  Oh, shoot.

• 1:50:42Speaker 04

  You need to write down one and whoever's app is the least updated, least recently updated gets the point.

• 1:50:54David Imel?

  I'm kinda not sure if this is real.

• 1:50:58Speaker 04

  Oh, we also didn't get to talk about the PHP vulnerability.

• 1:51:03David Imel?

  The drug?

• 1:51:05Speaker 04

  No, it's a, it's a coding language.

• 1:51:11Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't know how we cut around that.

• 1:51:14David Imel?

  It's fine.

• 1:51:15Speaker 04

  We'll leave it in.

• 1:51:17David Imel?

  The existence of things is not promotion.

• 1:51:19Speaker 04

  So you read me an app and I will tell you.

• 1:51:21David Imel?

  It's just when it was last updated. I'm very curious for these.

• 1:51:24Speaker 04

  He's about to die, so we gotta, we gotta, we gotta run it. All right.

• 1:51:27David Imel?

  Oh, this is.

• 1:51:27Andrew Manganelli?

  What? Is that an app?

• 1:51:29David Imel?

  That's a really good one.

• 1:51:30Speaker 04

  Uh, someone, someone give me one.

• 1:51:32David Imel?

  I wrote Google Slides.

• 1:51:33Speaker 04

  Google Slides.

• 1:51:35David Imel?

  I just don't know anyone who's ever used it.

• 1:51:37David Imel?

  I feel like.

• 1:51:38Andrew Manganelli?

  I like, thought, do I just go safe and make sure I pick something that I'm right, that like is real?

• 1:51:44David Imel?

  I almost wrote keep.

• 1:51:44David Imel?

  You know what it is? Business software.

• 1:51:45Andrew Manganelli?

  I almost wrote keep.

• 1:51:46David Imel?

  Was it updated yesterday?

• 1:51:47Speaker 04

  Google Slides was in fact updated yesterday.

• 1:51:50David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:50Andrew Manganelli?

  I kinda wanted to do one, what was the most recent? And I would've guessed Google Play.

• 1:51:55David Imel?

  Business software gets updated every day.

• 1:51:57Speaker 04

  No, Google Play was not one of the most recent. Andrew, what'd you put?

• 1:52:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Google Duo.

• 1:52:01David Imel?

  Google Duo is not even on the App Store anymore.

• 1:52:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Is it not even on the App Store anymore?

• 1:52:04David Imel?

  Which is why.

• 1:52:05David Imel?

  Have they deleted it though?

• 1:52:06Andrew Manganelli?

  I was hoping they just forgot to delete it.

• 1:52:09David Imel?

  I was gonna put Inbox by Google.

• 1:52:11David Imel?

  It's really gone. It's gone.

• 1:52:11David Imel?

  Whoa.

• 1:52:12Speaker 04

  Because, didn't it get merged into Google Meet?

• 1:52:14David Imel?

  It got merged into Google Meet.

• 1:52:15Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't even remember.

• 1:52:16David Imel?

  Mine might not be there because Fi exists now.

• 1:52:19David Imel?

  No, no, no. Fi is different from Fiber.

• 1:52:20Andrew Manganelli?

  If it was.

• 1:52:21David Imel?

  Didn't merge them?

• 1:52:22David Imel?

  No, they did not.

• 1:52:22David Imel?

  Okay, maybe.

• 1:52:23Speaker 04

  So Marques, you put?

• 1:52:24David Imel?

  But I put Google Fiber, cuz I, I don't know if there's an app for it.

• 1:52:27David Imel?

  There almost definitely is an app for it.

• 1:52:29Speaker 04

  And if there is an app for it, it means you win because.

• 1:52:32David Imel?

  Yeah, cuz I was one day and Andrew was null.

• 1:52:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, I also guessed Google or Duo cuz I was like, oh, is that what he was thinking?

• 1:52:40David Imel?

  ALO is a separate app.

• 1:52:41Andrew Manganelli?

  It's just Meet now, I think.

• 1:52:42David Imel?

  And it's gone too?

• 1:52:43David Imel?

  ALO was, yeah, ALO is also gone.

• 1:52:45Andrew Manganelli?

  And chat.

• 1:52:45David Imel?

  Duo lasted longer than ALO. ALO was like their Hangouts, like, replacement.

• 1:52:50David Imel?

  Oh, Hangouts probably been a minute.

• 1:52:52David Imel?

  Hangouts does not exist anymore because it got merged into.

• 1:52:55David Imel?

  That's why. So I, I thought if they had 71 apps, there's probably some vestigial apps that just sit around before they.

• 1:53:00Andrew Manganelli?

  That was my guess. I was hoping that maybe it was there for like some stupid reason.

• 1:53:04David Imel?

  Well, I was gonna say, uh, Inbox by Google, but I don't think that exists anymore.

• 1:53:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I search the list?

• 1:53:09David Imel?

  They closed it down a long time ago, but I don't think it's on the App Store anymore.

• 1:53:12Speaker 04

  I need, so.

• 1:53:15David Imel?

  I wanna.

• 1:53:16David Imel?

  And are we talking about updated on the iOS App Store?

• 1:53:18Speaker 04

  On the iOS App Store.

• 1:53:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, on the iOS App Store?

• 1:53:21Speaker 04

  Yes, specifically.

• 1:53:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 1:53:22Speaker 04

  Here's the, here's, this is tricky. There's an app called G-Fiber.

• 1:53:28David Imel?

  Oh, that's not Google.

• 1:53:29David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:29Speaker 04

  And it is made by a company called Google Fiber Inc., but it's not the same developer account as the rest of the Google app. So I'm, I can't really tell if this is.

• 1:53:39David Imel?

  Yeah, I don't think this is Google.

• 1:53:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I see this? Can you link us this list?

• 1:53:42David Imel?

  I'll take the L. Does that, does that mean you win with an app that was updated yesterday?

• 1:53:48Andrew Manganelli?

  That's what I was saying. We should've just picked ones.

• 1:53:49David Imel?

  Let's go.

• 1:53:50David Imel?

  That's brutal.

• 1:53:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Damn, we should've both said keep.

• 1:53:53David Imel?

  Oh, keep is definitely.

• 1:53:54David Imel?

  I crossed it out.

• 1:53:55David Imel?

  It was longer.

• 1:53:56David Imel?

  I thought that would be updated like this year.

• 1:53:58David Imel?

  It was this year for sure, but not yesterday.

• 1:54:00Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, a year, within a year is.

• 1:54:02David Imel?

  Damn, I won with.

• 1:54:04Speaker 04

  Oldest.

• 1:54:05David Imel?

  Wow.

• 1:54:05Speaker 04

  The three oldest. Number three, PhotoScan by Google Photos.

• 1:54:10David Imel?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:54:11David Imel?

  That was a separate app?

• 1:54:12David Imel?

  Yeah, it was. It still is a separate app.

• 1:54:14Speaker 04

  November 21st, 2022, it's still on the App Store.

• 1:54:16David Imel?

  Oh, my God. It is still really good.

• 1:54:18Speaker 04

  And number two, the G-Board app.

• 1:54:21David Imel?

  What?

• 1:54:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:54:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Hasn't been updated?

• 1:54:22David Imel?

  I was gonna try it on the Duo, actually.

• 1:54:24David Imel?

  Oh, maybe on the iPhone. I bet you G-Board on Android has gotten updated a thousand times.

• 1:54:28Speaker 04

  On iPhone, it was last updated May of 2022.

• 1:54:31David Imel?

  That's crazy.

• 1:54:32Speaker 04

  And the least recently updated app by Google on iOS is Google Cloud Search. Last updated November 6th, 2019. I have no idea what that app does.

• 1:54:44David Imel?

  Neither do they.

• 1:54:46David Imel?

  Everyone who worked on that has left the company, I guarantee you.

• 1:54:48Speaker 04

  So David, congratulations on your point. I'm gonna give a quick.

• 1:54:52David Imel?

  It's like a participation award. That's literally what I got.

• 1:54:55David Imel?

  That is painful.

• 1:54:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:54:57Andrew Manganelli?

  So it's a strategy.

• 1:54:58Speaker 04

  I really wish I had done the, I make stuff up question now. I'm really, I'm sorry, guys. I feel like.

• 1:55:03David Imel?

  Can I just name a couple of apps that I didn't know were apps that Google has? Recapsha is an app for some reason.

• 1:55:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, I've seen that logo a thousand times.

• 1:55:11David Imel?

  I guess it's an app that Google makes. Fitbit Ace.

• 1:55:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Is this another Fitbit app?

• 1:55:18David Imel?

  Just an app for one of the Fitbits.

• 1:55:20David Imel?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:55:21David Imel?

  There's an app for Fitbit Ace.

• 1:55:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, is that like for kids?

• 1:55:24David Imel?

  Which now Google owns?

• 1:55:25David Imel?

  I guess so.

• 1:55:26David Imel?

  I guess.

• 1:55:26David Imel?

  Own Fitbit, yeah.

• 1:55:27David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:55:28David Imel?

  Uh, Google Fi Wireless is still here. Uh, Google Tasks would've been a good guess. Google Opinion Rewards, separate app.

• 1:55:35David Imel?

  No way.

• 1:55:36David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:36David Imel?

  Wait, when did that get updated?

• 1:55:38Speaker 04

  What do you do it in?

• 1:55:38David Imel?

  I don't know. It's in there.

• 1:55:39Speaker 04

  I have that as a separate app.

• 1:55:41Andrew Manganelli?

  I have that as a separate app.

• 1:55:42David Imel?

  Yeah, you're right. It is a separate app. Google Arts and Culture.

• 1:55:46Andrew Manganelli?

  My favorite thing about that.

• 1:55:48Speaker 04

  Arts and Culture is great. I use that.

• 1:55:50David Imel?

  All right, shout out to museums.

• 1:55:51Andrew Manganelli?

  My favorite Opinion Rewards thing is you'll get a question that's like, have you been to any of these places recently? And it's like seven things and one that you literally just left. Like, I just got home from the grocery store. It's like, have you been to, um, like Chipotle or LL Bean? Or the shop right I know you were just at? And you're like, there's like, oh, when'd you go the last month, the last week?

• 1:56:13Speaker 04

  Have you gotten the ones where it shows you a screenshot of a Google search you did?

• 1:56:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:56:19Speaker 04

  And you're like, you took that?

• 1:56:20David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, and, but every time I do that, then you press back to look at the other one and it disappears from.

• 1:56:25David Imel?

  No, my favorite thing is every week I get one that says, were you born in New Mexico? And I say, no, and then it gives me a quarter. And it does it over and over again.

• 1:56:35David Imel?

  Infinite Money Glitch?

• 1:56:36David Imel?

  It's Infinite Money Glitch.

• 1:56:38Speaker 04

  Guys, so not much to update on this score. David, congratulations on your 17th point. Uh, Marques and Andrew, you're just behind. It's not even worth it.

• 1:56:46David Imel?

  Incredible.

• 1:56:46David Imel?

  Don't worry about it.

• 1:56:48Andrew Manganelli?

  It's not even worth talking about.

• 1:56:49Speaker 04

  Right, it's your turn.

• 1:56:50Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:56:53Speaker 03

  Pity point party. Okay, so my question for you is, what iconic tech duo had a feature called Knock Knock?

• 1:57:04Speaker 03

  You're supposed to say, who's there?

• 1:57:05David Imel?

  Oh, who's there?

• 1:57:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Entire guess is based off of Marques saying, nice phrasing.

• 1:57:12David Imel?

  God, I really remember, I really remember the name of the feature, but I really don't.

• 1:57:17Andrew Manganelli?

  The feature's named Knock Knock, isn't it?

• 1:57:19Speaker 04

  It's an iconic tech duo.

• 1:57:24David Imel?

  I hope I get this right, because you guys need too many hints, but I'm probably just wrong.

• 1:57:27David Imel?

  I'm so close. Was it like a-

• 1:57:28Speaker 03

  You know this, David. You know it.

• 1:57:30David Imel?

  Well, still I know. I hope I'm right.

• 1:57:32Andrew Manganelli?

  I want to see yours first. Oh, never mind.

• 1:57:35Speaker 03

  Flip him around. Flip him around!

• 1:57:38David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:57:38Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:57:40David Imel?

  Wow.

• 1:57:41Speaker 03

  So, wow.

• 1:57:43David Imel?

  That is an iconic tech duo.

• 1:57:45Andrew Manganelli?

  I wrote mine first, because I am wrong.

• 1:57:45Speaker 03

  I really thought you guys had this one.

• 1:57:47Andrew Manganelli?

  I wrote lingo, like Duolingo, and I thought maybe there was a like, learn how to say hello in different languages by knocking.

• 1:57:54Speaker 03

  That's a good thought.

• 1:57:55David Imel?

  That's a good innocent guess.

• 1:57:56Speaker 03

  David, what did you say?

• 1:57:57David Imel?

  I wrote the Surface Duo, but I don't, yeah.

• 1:58:00David Imel?

  I think there, so I wrote this, there's like an LG phone that had like a case that had a second screen on it, and you could like knock-knock on the outside and it would show, it would light up and show you-

• 1:58:09Andrew Manganelli?

  You're talking about the dot matrix case?

• 1:58:10David Imel?

  No, that's HTC.

• 1:58:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, right.

• 1:58:12David Imel?

  LG had like a case that you could knock on the outside, it would show you the inside. I don't know if it was called Duo, but it seems like it would, because it has a second screen. So like, maybe that?

• 1:58:21David Imel?

  I guess not.

• 1:58:22Speaker 03

  So, I really wanted to give you an easy question. I was really trying to get y'all some points this week.

• 1:58:27David Imel?

  Oh.

• 1:58:28Speaker 03

  And-

• 1:58:29David Imel?

  It better not be iPhone.

• 1:58:30Speaker 03

  We went too hard.

• 1:58:31David Imel?

  Definitely not.

• 1:58:32Speaker 03

  Um, does anyone have a sec, a backup?

• 1:58:33Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm just, is the feature to turn, oh no, that was like the-

• 1:58:37David Imel?

  Can you-

• 1:58:38Andrew Manganelli?

  I was thinking of like the tap-tap to turn on the flashlight.

• 1:58:41David Imel?

  Can you read the question one more time?

• 1:58:43Speaker 03

  What iconic tech duo-

• 1:58:46David Imel?

  Chop.

• 1:58:46Speaker 03

  -had a feature called knock-knock? Do you want another hint?

• 1:58:51David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Can you tell us what the feature does?

• 1:58:53Speaker 03

  I don't fucking know.

• 1:58:55Speaker 04

  It would give it away.

• 1:58:56Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:58:56David Imel?

  Can I give us another hint? I would take a little hint.

• 1:58:58Speaker 03

  If I give you another hint, it's just gonna tell them what that is. Can I just-

• 1:59:01Speaker 04

  Why don't we just give you, we can give you just a different question.

• 1:59:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, no, I want to know what this is. What if you just give the hint and it's first person who answers?

• 1:59:07Speaker 03

  Okay, if I say this was an iconic, popular video conferencing platform.

• 1:59:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Google Duo?

• 1:59:16David Imel?

  Oh, well, yeah.

• 1:59:17Andrew Manganelli?

  That's so funny that I almost got, I got it right on my first question!

• 1:59:23Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:59:23Andrew Manganelli?

  I was gonna-

• 1:59:24David Imel?

  Yes.

• 1:59:25Speaker 03

  I was like, he knows. He's looking at me. He knows.

• 1:59:27David Imel?

  I remember what it was. What it was, was that if you started video calling the other person, they would see your feed on their screen before they answered.

• 1:59:37Speaker 04

  Yes, David. Yes!

• 1:59:39David Imel?

  That's what it was.

• 1:59:40Speaker 04

  This, this is tech trivia in action!

• 1:59:42Andrew Manganelli?

  So it's like what FaceTime does now, right?

• 1:59:44David Imel?

  No, FaceTime does not show, like if I FaceTime you, you do not see my face. So the way it would work is like if we had two Pixel phones or whatever, or anything with Duo, I would call you on Duo, and I would be like, Andrew, Andrew, what's up, Andrew, but I wouldn't see you, you would only see-

• 1:59:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:00:01David Imel?

  So it was like a one-way, before you answered, you got to decide whether or not you wanted to answer.

• 2:00:05David Imel?

  I'm sure no one ever abused that feature. It's a crazy feature.

• 2:00:09Andrew Manganelli?

  You're in a meeting and it's, anyway.

• 2:00:12Speaker 04

  Okay, I'm taking control. The trivia's gotten out of control. We gotta return to our roots. We're doing one more question. I know it's a long podcast.

• 2:00:17David Imel?

  Okay, I need a point. I need a point so bad.

• 2:00:19Speaker 04

  We just gotta, we have to take it back, y'all. All right. One news story, we did, bam! One news story we did not talk about this week were the discovered vulnerabilities in the programming language PHP. You don't need to know what PHP is to answer this question. Um, PHP, excuse me, the PHP vulnerabilities affect lots of services such as Drupal, Finkie, Joomla, and Magneto. Excuse me.

• 2:00:47David Imel?

  Magneto.

• 2:00:48Speaker 04

  Magento.

• 2:00:49David Imel?

  Oh.

• 2:00:50Speaker 04

  Which one of those is not a real CMS platform?

• 2:00:53David Imel?

  Say them all again?

• 2:00:56Speaker 04

  Drupal, Finkie, Magento, and Joomla.

• 2:01:07Speaker 04

  That is Drupal, Finkie, Magento, and Joomla.

• 2:01:14David Imel?

  Joomla?

• 2:01:16Speaker 04

  J-O-O-M-L-A. They are all CMS platforms.

• 2:01:19David Imel?

  Like Jude Law?

• 2:01:20Speaker 04

  Like-

• 2:01:22David Imel?

  The actor?

• 2:01:23Speaker 04

  Please.

• 2:01:24David Imel?

  I'm gonna get this one. Okay.

• 2:01:27David Imel?

  Unfortunately, Marquez Drupal is a CMS platform.

• 2:01:29Speaker 04

  Oh, no, sorry. David, you are corrected as a CMS platform. Marquez, you are wrong.

• 2:01:34David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh wait, but is David right when he says Finkie?

• 2:01:36David Imel?

  I said-

• 2:01:37Speaker 04

  Uh, you're both right when you say Finkie. Finkie is not a real thing. I made Finkie up. Uh, unfortunately, this does almost nothing to the delta, meaning this was a waste of time.

• 2:01:47Andrew Manganelli?

  No, I'm further from Marquez.

• 2:01:49David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Or closer to Marquez.

• 2:01:51David Imel?

  Yeah, and I'm also farther away. Um, yeah. You know, what's weird is that a lot of CMS platforms have a lot of like double Os and Us in them.

• 2:02:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Or no vowels at all.

• 2:02:04David Imel?

  Yeah. Well, no.

• 2:02:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Why?

• 2:02:06David Imel?

  That's just most tech products.

• 2:02:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:08Speaker 03

  Marquez, I was trying to give you a point, brother. I was really trying.

• 2:02:11David Imel?

  I, I should've got that right.

• 2:02:14Speaker 04

  It's all good. Read us out. This podcast has gone on way too long as it is.

• 2:02:18Andrew Manganelli?

  And Alice is hungry and wants lunch.

• 2:02:20Speaker 04

  Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Who said that?

• 2:02:23David Imel?

  You putting words in his mouth?

• 2:02:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:02:25David Imel?

  Well, thanks, thanks for watching. Thanks for listening, of course. We will have much more. Techtober is literally only halfway over. It's insane. We have much more coming. There's literally events next week. It's gonna happen. So, stay tuned, get subscribed. See you then. Thanks for watching.

• 2:02:40David Imel?

  Mag with Goldra.

• 2:02:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Bye. Wait, for us produced by Mariah Zane, Kynell's, Rovin', and Partner of Vox Media Podcast Network. And intro, our music was created by Vainso.

• 2:02:48David Imel?

  Bing Duo.

• 2:03:06Speaker 03

  Hey, Bose here. When your next track starts, listen for the decisions that the artist makes. The vocal pushed right up front. The bass that waits half a beat. That sample from a 70s underground gem. Every choice deliberate. With Bose, you'll hear it all. Your music deserves Bose.

• 2:03:32Speaker 03

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