Google might have to sell Chrome!

This week, Marques, Andrew, and David talk about a bunch of Google news including the DOJ possibly forcing it to sell off Chrome. But first, they go over some EV news and talk about the Jaguar rebrand that's taken the internet by storm. After that, they go over some ChromeOS rumors and talk about the Android 16 developer preview. Of course, they close out with a debate about whether or not Microsoft Teams will actually release live translation before getting into the last trivia questions before the Trivia Extravaganza episode drops next week! It's a fun one, enjoy! Links: Tesla supercharger: https://bit.ly/4g1yyfR Bloomberg Google leak: https://bit.ly/3COv0yW Google ditching ChromeOS: https://bit.ly/4ePOsJi Android 16 Dev Preview: https://bit.ly/4eY1Qet Jaguar Video: https://bit.ly/4hXz8Nn TopGear Video: https://bit.ly/4eLJIEe Verge Article about google: https://bit.ly/4fZvIaZ Verge Microsoft Teams article: https://bit.ly/3Ok1dAQ Knee Airbags: https://bit.ly/3CQjvXN HyperFixed: https://www.hyperfixedpod.com/ Music provided by Epidemic Sound Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Socials: Waveform: https://twitter.com/WVFRM Waveform: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David Imel: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Andrew Manganelli?

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, host Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's Chief Investment Strategist, and Colin Martin, Head of Fixed Income Research and Strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring your fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting, and what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episodes and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  No, they're not. Microsoft Teams is not adding live translate.

• 0:37Speaker 02

  I'm excited. Yes, they are. They're gonna be the greatest.

• 0:41Speaker 01

  They're not. They're not.

• 0:41Speaker 02

  It's gonna be amazing. Sorry, Ellis, are you speaking in Spanish?

• 0:50Speaker 02

  Yo, what is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marquez.

• 0:56Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm Andrew.

• 0:56David Imel?

  And I'm David.

• 0:57Speaker 02

  This week, we have a car company rebrand that is sweeping the internet. We also have a new website that continues to sweep the internet.

• 1:08Andrew Manganelli?

  It's a newer website.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Newer-ish, that's true. And also a ton of Google News from lawsuits to Android 16 early looks. But first, Tesla started rolling out V4 superchargers. Well, they didn't start rolling it out. They announced it, and then they're gonna start rolling it out. V4 superchargers are gonna do 500 kilowatts. Very exciting. For those who don't have the context of what exactly that means, 500 kilowatts?

• 1:31Andrew Manganelli?

  That would be me.

• 1:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, so electric car charging, generally, the faster, the better. And obviously, there's a whole bunch of math with the charging curve. It charges faster when you're at a lower stage of charge and all that. But basically, V1 superchargers had, I think, a 75 kilowatt peak charging speed, and V2s were like 125 kilowatts. I might be getting the V1 and V2 numbers slightly wrong, but generally, the numbers have gone up over time, which means faster charging. This is the basic concept. V3 superchargers, 250 kilowatt max. Very, very impressive. But yeah, you can add 1,000 miles of battery, 1,000 miles of range to your battery in an hour. So obviously, you won't have to plug in for a whole hour to charge your whole battery, which is great.

• 2:13Speaker 02

  V4 superchargers, they announced the new cabinet, and apparently, Cybertrucks will be able to do 500 kilowatts. That's not necessarily twice as fast as 250 kilowatts, but it is twice as much power. And it shows, I think... Uh, there was a video clip that they put out where it was adding like 1300 miles per hour to the battery, which is amazing. Um, it also includes Tesla Semi support and the Semi truck, of course, charges in megawatts. They measure this in thousands of kilowatts. So 1.2 megawatts would be 1200 kilowatts, which is crazy.

• 2:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Is this a stupid question, but I'm assuming a Tesla Semi truck isn't pulling up to a regular supercharger. Are they gonna have their?

• 2:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:55Andrew Manganelli?

  It literally wouldn't fit in the space, right?

• 2:56Speaker 02

  Right. They've had their own charging solutions in the past and apparently this new V4 cabinet will support the Tesla Semi. You need a longer cable, the whole higher power and all that. But yeah, this will, this will also be fast for those.

• 3:08Andrew Manganelli?

  This does though, come with the longer cables, right?

• 3:12Speaker 02

  Mostly for cars that don't take the NACS port.

• 3:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Or, well, cars that now do take the NACS.

• 3:19Speaker 02

  But have it at a different.

• 3:20Andrew Manganelli?

  But have it in different spots.

• 3:21Speaker 02

  There's that too, but they're also going to be including CCS connectors.

• 3:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, really?

• 3:24Speaker 02

  At these stations.

• 3:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Cool.

• 3:26Speaker 02

  Yes. So for cars that, you know, it's like you would have to buy a 2025, 2026 model of a car that has the NACS and not everyone has committed to moving over to it, but I think that Tesla wants to be the gas station of electricity. So.

• 3:40Andrew Manganelli?

  And even the ones who did, we're seeing these like, I mean, cables being like, you know, trucks pulling up to be within like less than an inch of the charging thing and like, it's still, is that like a 90 degree angle, which cannot be good for that cord over time. So like, being able to put it in, you know, whether you're at the front or the back, right or left, anyone hopefully should be able to plug in.

• 4:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. So for clarity, they did start rolling out V4 charger, charging stations this year, but they didn't have the cabinets installed that allowed for this higher power.

• 4:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Gotcha.

• 4:13Speaker 02

  So next year, they're going to swap out a lot of the cabinets and then also just start rolling out way more V4 chargers.

• 4:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Sick.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  So, yeah.

• 4:22Andrew Manganelli?

  That's.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  We just had the, uh, the Li Auto Mega here, which was also, it supported 520 kilowatt charging. And again, the number might not mean a lot to everyone, but the number that hit me the hardest was 10 to 80% in 10 minutes for your battery. That's.

• 4:40Speaker 02

  That's awesome. That's like a full usable charge in not that much time. So yeah, hopefully a lot of cars will start being able to support that soon. All right, we should talk about this rebrand, this Jaguar rebrand.

• 4:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Last minute addition to the docket this morning. Lots of, lots of talk on the internet, lots of talk inside our own studio, especially Tim, our graphic designer. Because it's so good, right? It's fantastic. Everyone loves it.

• 5:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's why.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  It looks better, bigger than a phone screen.

• 5:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, I think let's get into it. I don't think it is just the rebrand. I think it's how the rebrand was launched and what was launched alongside of it. That is why it's also, I think, so Jaguar changed their logo. It was an older typeface that was very, it'd been around for decades, correct?

• 5:29Speaker 02

  Some might even say it's recognizable, iconic, even.

• 5:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, the cool thing to do in the last couple of years is take something super iconic and absolutely destroy brand recognition.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  Melt it down into a simple sans serif font, send it. Yeah, that's, that's what's been happening.

• 5:44Andrew Manganelli?

  So the new logo, the new Jaguar logo is just a different typeface. Yeah, like we said, everyone is kind of doing it. I think if that were just it, there would be backlash because when you have a singular thing for so long, any change to it is going to feel weird and Jaguar's been around forever and kind of known as, you know, the, the old people car, despite some of them, I think, looking very good. But I don't think anyone disagrees with that, right? Like it is kind of known as the old people car.

• 6:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, the average Jaguar buyer is definitely 65 years old, like factually.

• 6:17Andrew Manganelli?

  I think a new typeface to kind of look newer in age, isn't the worst idea, but they, they released it with this like commercial. Did you all watch the 30 second like ad it came with? What were all of your thoughts on that? Can someone explain it? Or Ellis, can you explain it as you're watching it?

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, here.

• 6:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Can you live? Ellis has not seen it, so these are his live reactions.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  You haven't watched it yet? Oh, I would love to watch you watch it.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  There's a lot happening. Okay, so.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  What?

• 6:54Speaker 01

  That was a car? That was for a car?

• 6:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Wow. Okay, uh, look, I'll start off with nice things. All right, I like, I like the costumes. That was really fun.

• 7:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Can you explain it to like for if someone hasn't seen it yet, what happened?

• 7:10Speaker 01

  I can try, man, but like, so there's, there's some people in some sort of like Logan's Runny, like outfits and they're walking out on Mars, but it's pink. And then it cuts to seemingly like a queen in, in a royal gown. She's moving flowingly. Then there's, it says live vivid. And then it cuts to a guy who looks sort of like Andy Warhol.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  He's spinning and he's painting as he spins. It says delete ordinary, but he's, I don't, okay, I'm just kidding. Let's move on. And then, and then there's a woman in an orange dress in a blue room, but she's upside down. She's on the ceiling. Oh, but then, then she's not. Oh, and then she has a hammer. It's a yellow hammer. So primary colors. But then it says break molds, which doesn't make sense because it's like a Bauhaus primary. Okay.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  And then, oh, and then they're all together. They're back on pink Mars and they're sitting on a rock. And they're, they're doing these sort of Twyla Tharp-esque looks to the side. I don't get it, man. Um, I don't really know what they're.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  I don't know, man. When I was, when I was like a teenager, my dream car, like my absolute dream car was a eighties Jaguar XJS. Like I actually am like a huge passionate lover of vintage Jaguars. And, um, so I'm a little bit sad to see that we're not going to get any more of those. We're not going to get like big, classic, classy, British steamboats.

• 8:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  But also. Maybe we'll get cars that work. So.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, a lot of, a lot of reactions to this online. I think most people had the same initial reaction, which is, wait, this is a car company? What? Looks like it had nothing to do with cars. It's, it's kind of just the beginning of a rebrand. It's a logo and a 30 second vibe, basically.

• 9:11David Imel?

  It's not too different from nothing's marketing, I'm gonna be honest.

• 9:13Speaker 02

  I was with the, the bugs.

• 9:15David Imel?

  With the bugs and just the random Scandinavian people.

• 9:19Andrew Manganelli?

  This, yeah, I think my issue with this is it felt, Tim said this, like, at the end, it could have said Adobe instead of Jaguar and it would have worked.

• 9:28Speaker 01

  It could have said anything.

• 9:29Andrew Manganelli?

  It could have said pretty much.

• 9:30David Imel?

  Better Adobe ad.

• 9:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 9:31Speaker 01

  It could have said hubba bubba.

• 9:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, like, this ad has just like nothing going on with it. It feels, it feels like they went into like a mid-journey prompt and said, make me a 30 second ad that feels like I'm thinking outside of the box and throw in a couple sayings you would find on like a $5 TJ Maxx.

• 9:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's a chance, is, is Jaguar announcing a car soon? Is that happening? Do we know?

• 9:56Andrew Manganelli?

  I think, I think so.

• 9:57Speaker 02

  Are we gonna get a car that like breaks molds and is like unexpected and looks totally crazy?

• 10:02David Imel?

  Interestingly, the i-Pace came out a number of years ago, which was one of the earlier EVs that was on the market.

• 10:09Speaker 02

  That is true.

• 10:10David Imel?

  But people generally did not like it, so.

• 10:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was not that.

• 10:14David Imel?

  And did they just give up after that and now they're coming back?

• 10:17Speaker 02

  So the crazy thing about the i-Pace, I mentioned this a couple of weeks ago, is they still sell a lot of them to Waymo and they're like lots of them on the road. So they have a lot of electric cars out there.

• 10:25David Imel?

  So the Waymos are i-Paces?

• 10:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:28David Imel?

  Oh.

• 10:28Speaker 02

  A lot of them are.

• 10:28David Imel?

  I thought they were gas cars.

• 10:29Andrew Manganelli?

  I thought they just changed, I think they're starting to do IONIQs.

• 10:33David Imel?

  They're gonna make their own cars too. Yeah, but they're working on their own.

• 10:36Speaker 02

  They haven't, yeah, they haven't made any new EVs that I'm aware of since. They've made hybrids, they've made other cars, but Miles has reviewed another Jaguar since then, but I'll, I'll, the other thing about this ad though is it's, uh, I mean, we're talking about it on this podcast. I don't remember the last time we talked about Jaguar. It's working, like people are talking about Jaguar. The tweet, just the tweet, this isn't on Blue Sky or Threads or on your Instagram, or just the tweet, has a thousand retweets and 15,000 quote tweets.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  I don't know if you guys are familiar with what a ratio is, but that's a pretty strong statement. People are just sharing the crap out of this. Thirty-three and a half million views since yesterday.

• 11:17David Imel?

  Fifty, fifty thousand comments.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  Fifty thousand comments since yesterday. So I don't know if Jaguar could have made a more attention grabbing

• 11:26David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  ad if they tried.

• 11:28David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 11:28Speaker 02

  Like, imagine a regular car commercial getting thirty-five million views and fifty thousand comments on Twitter. They'd have to do something insanely cool with the car.

• 11:37David Imel?

  That very well may have been the point.

• 11:38Speaker 02

  They'd have to put hamsters in a Kia Soul. They'd have to go nuts. Like, very, very cool cars have been announced that don't get nearly that attention.

• 11:44David Imel?

  It's true.

• 11:44Speaker 02

  Jaguar has the eyeballs on them, and that's probably, honestly, their main goal, even if they're getting roasted everywhere, is, hey, people are paying attention to Jaguar right now.

• 11:52David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 11:52Speaker 02

  So whatever their next car is, people will look at it.

• 11:55David Imel?

  The funny thing is their logo and their banner image. I understand that it sort of looks like multiple layers of slightly different colored paint, but it kind of just looks like color banding.

• 12:05Andrew Manganelli?

  It does.

• 12:06David Imel?

  Um, so, you know.

• 12:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Also, the banner and the profile picture are like the opposite, light in the middle versus dark.

• 12:14David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 12:14Speaker 04

  Looking at the website on Ellis's computer here, it's the first time that I went to, or that he went to Jaguar, and I'm like, looking at it. I kind of like everything.

• 12:25David Imel?

  They're still using the old logo on their website.

• 12:26Speaker 04

  That's what was gonna be my nitpick, though. They're using the old logo on the top left, which is weird.

• 12:30Andrew Manganelli?

  That's so funny.

• 12:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, but, I don't know, I kinda like it. Like, as someone that doesn't know anything about cars and isn't in the car world, and this is like my first real introduction to it.

• 12:39David Imel?

  I do understand that their old logo is very iconic. It is also very, very seated in like the nineteen eighties.

• 12:47Andrew Manganelli?

  For sure.

• 12:47David Imel?

  And I wonder if they're just like, we are not selling any cars to younger people, and we need to just do a full rebrand, no matter what it is.

• 12:55Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it's super reasonable to look for an updated rebrand. I just don't, I think my, I don't like the like cookie cutter, what?

• 13:03Speaker 01

  What are you talking about? Some of, some of the most important celebrities to young people of all time have been Jaguar owners. Did you not know Frank Sinatra?

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Queen Elizabeth.

• 13:14David Imel?

  Oh.

• 13:14Speaker 01

  Count Basie.

• 13:16David Imel?

  Oh, I do like Count Basie.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  Don't you think, you don't think Gen Z cares about Count Basie?

• 13:21Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. I'm looking at this website. I mean, it really feels like they're built, they're trying to get people to pay attention to whatever their next announcement is. That's really my take here. They're like, a new frontier is coming. Go bold. Something's, oh, it's here. Look. So, December 2nd, 2024, there's a date on the website. That's probably some other announcement.

• 13:41Andrew Manganelli?

  In some of the articles I saw about this logo, there was like a car in the camo wrap that takes away like the lines and like prototype testing type of cars. So it does seem like they're coming up with something new. They're obviously not going to launch this just out of the blue and.

• 13:56Speaker 02

  I paid too, baby.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  Anyway, I gotta ask. So what do we all think Jaguar is gonna pull out that, that meets this criteria? That's disruptive, that breaks the mold, that's for the new generation. What's it gonna be? Speculation station.

• 14:11Speaker 02

  An EV.

• 14:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Nothing. I don't think it's.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  Nothing like car.

• 14:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Whatever car comes out is not gonna like match what this vibe is.

• 14:21Speaker 02

  I mean, if you're Jaguar and you're trying to reset a little bit, like remember we talked about Hyundai? And Kia actually like successfully rebranding a little bit with their new EVs? And if you're Jaguar, you see that success and you're like, we gotta do that too. Everyone who buys these cars is 60. We made a first EV, like we have that heritage. Now we need to capitalize on it. Everyone knows about Jaguar. This might be what you would do. You might go, let's go, let's just turn over a new leaf. Abandon ship. We don't need any of this old crusty old Jaguar heritage from the past 100 years. We're gonna, we're gonna do this crazy new branding thing. We're gonna change our logo and we're gonna just start with.

• 15:03David Imel?

  These, you know, EVs that are like in a popular segment, maybe it's a midsize crossover and it's like this colorful bunch of, you know, electric cars they come out with. I can see them doing that. On their site, it does say the new era seismic change is coming. Yeah.

• 15:17Andrew Manganelli?

  I also want to say Car and Driver says that the automaker will unveil a design vision concept car during Miami Art Week on December 2nd. The concept will preview its first vehicle in Jaguar's revitalized lineup, which then goes to say this yet unnamed car will enter production by end of 2026.

• 15:35David Imel?

  Can I give my speculation? It's a long wait time.

• 15:37Andrew Manganelli?

  It's out of the box, baby.

• 15:38David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 15:39Speaker 01

  Listen, what's the one thing that no auto manufacturer is doing? We have the midsize market.

• 15:45David Imel?

  Sports car.

• 15:45Speaker 01

  Sport, no, sports car, the market's full. Midsize, market's full. SUV, market is definitely full. They gotta think bigger. I'm thinking 20 seats, 30 seats, additional standing room for 30 more. Make it 35 feet long. Sell it exclusively to municipalities. Charge 250 to get on it. Preset routes. This is the market.

• 16:09David Imel?

  The Jaguar bus.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  The Jaguar bus.

• 16:11David Imel?

  I think we need to move on.

• 16:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, yeah. All right. It's Blue Sky time, baby.

• 16:14David Imel?

  Okay, so.

• 16:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Get them, David.

• 16:18David Imel?

  Sick of it.

• 16:20David Imel?

  It really is. It really is. Last week, right as we were writing this episode, it was reported that 15 million people had joined the service of Blue Sky. Previously, the day before it was 14 million, so that info had updated.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  By the time I was editing the podcast, dear viewer, if you were watching the video, it was up to 17 million. So that was the screenshot that I got.

• 16:41David Imel?

  So Meta had been making a big deal over the fact that they were adding a million users to Threads every single day. And then all of a sudden, a million users started getting added to Blue Sky every day. And yes, Threads has almost 300 million people and Blue Sky is now sitting at about 20.7 million as of time of recording, 20.6 actually, as of time of recording. By the time you watch slash hear this, it will probably be around 22 or so. But yeah, I mean, it's growing very fast. It seems like one of the main things that people are talking about on Threads right now is Blue Sky. Sky and it's gotten to the point where people are arguing about which one is better, which I find very funny because it's just, it's the same thing as like Android versus iOS or Sony versus PlayStation versus Xbox.

• 17:26David Imel?

  People just love to be tribal about this stuff and there's all these people on threads being like, I'm not going to Blue Sky because you can't grow your audience over there because you actually see your friends posts. Instead of random people seeing your posts and I'm like, it's just hilarious. Anyway, I'm very happy to see growth of another platform. Obviously it is not running on Activity Pub, it's running on the AT or at protocol, but it is still a decentralized social network. Jay is working a lot with people like Evan Padromo to make there be more interoperability between Blue Sky and the Fediverse.

• 18:01Speaker 02

  Jay is the CEO.

• 18:02David Imel?

  Jay is the CEO of Blue Sky. Uh, there's something called Bridgie Fed right now, which basically bridges the Fediverse and the AT protocol universe. So it's a, I know it's messy. Protocols are always messy.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  No, it's just, we're, we're actually living in the timeline where it's like, oh, can you Mastodon me? Oh no, but if you hit me on Bridgie or if you use your Bridgie Fed account, it'll make it all the way to my, my Blue Sky toot. It's like, no.

• 18:29Andrew Manganelli?

  We're getting back to Wolf again.

• 18:30David Imel?

  Well, you know, we also live in the era where Haktua Girl launches Pookie Tools was a headline from TechCrunch. So I, you know.

• 18:39Speaker 02

  We didn't cover that, did we?

• 18:40David Imel?

  Well, I don't think we need to cover that.

• 18:41Speaker 01

  We did like three weeks ago.

• 18:43David Imel?

  What?

• 18:44Speaker 01

  Is that a React competitor?

• 18:45David Imel?

  React native?

• 18:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, Pookie Tools.

• 18:48David Imel?

  I don't know. Sounds like more like a Pokemon competitor. Uh, yeah. So if you're not on Blue Sky yet, you should get on it because it's fun. And if you do get on it, you should follow us.

• 18:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I ask everyone a question here? I think everyone at least in the last week has gone on to Blue Sky and kind of reactivated their accounts, except Ellis. I just want to pose a question. What is one thing you're really liking about it and one thing you're disliking about the current state? You're not allowed to say user base because we all know it's the lowest user base kind of all of them.

• 19:15David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 19:17Andrew Manganelli?

  I can go, I can go first.

• 19:18David Imel?

  Yeah, go first.

• 19:21Andrew Manganelli?

  I enjoy just the people that I follow being on there, a chronological feed. The Discover feed needs some work for sure, but it is nice that I can pop between them. And every time I refresh, it seems to remember that. Big like, the thing I've been disliking lately, and maybe this is just because of the influx is, I keep getting these, like suggested these threads, posts, whatever, that are

• 19:45Andrew Manganelli?

  essentially making fun of threads by saying, "We have to make sure that Blue Sky doesn't turn into threads and the engagement farming like hellhole that it is. So we need to make sure everything is authentic and not just for farming engagement." And then all of those threads have a ton of retweets and everything and feel like that is the engagement farming on Blue Sky is to make fun of engagement farming.

• 20:06David Imel?

  Well, I mean, the same thing is happening on threads.

• 20:08Andrew Manganelli?

  For sure.

• 20:09David Imel?

  Whereas people, people are just saying, "Blue Sky sucks," and then it has a ton of retweets and stuff.

• 20:13Andrew Manganelli?

  It's just like.

• 20:14David Imel?

  Guys, get out of your egghead chamber.

• 20:16Andrew Manganelli?

  It's just like, let's just, just do what you want it to be and, and show with action. Let's not immediately start complaining and then piling on it, because that just feels like the same thing we've always had to deal with.

• 20:28David Imel?

  Yeah. I like that you can default to the following feed. Good one.

• 20:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Yep.

• 20:33David Imel?

  I like that it's chronological and that you have multiple different feeds that you can jump between. I love the starter packs. Those are really fun and interesting. Starter packs are basically these packs of accounts that you can build so that someone can just inject their starter pack directly into their account so that they're following all the people they want to be following.

• 20:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Show me how to do that real quick.

• 20:52David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 20:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Or like if I wanted to find a starter.

• 20:54David Imel?

  So it's under profile, starter packs, and you can create one.

• 20:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, so I would go to a profile that I'm following already and see if they've created a starter.

• 21:02David Imel?

  Or they'll skeet about it and then you can follow that. Yeah.

• 21:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Forgot about that.

• 21:05David Imel?

  I gotta say, um, yeah, I think, no, I think that's, I think that's super useful. I, I've been trying to figure out what, how to like, I guess it mostly is the people, but I'm trying to figure out what the difference in vibes are. And I think on Blue Sky, there's a lot of positive energy about this new growing thing. And if you post something, what I felt was that most of the replies were on top.

• 21:30Speaker 02

  Topic about that thing.

• 21:32David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 21:32Speaker 02

  Which shouldn't be a surprise.

• 21:34David Imel?

  Used to be.

• 21:35Speaker 02

  That's how I.

• 21:36David Imel?

  This is how social media.

• 21:37Speaker 02

  Wow, this is so refreshing that I posted about one thing and then the replies were about that one thing. And then we engaged about that one thing and then moved on, which is kind of how threads, I think, is trying to be because everything's combined with the thread. But I think X is not like that at all. So I feel like that that difference was striking to me. And I don't know how long it's gonna stay that way.

• 21:57David Imel?

  I think.

• 21:58Speaker 02

  More people means less.

• 21:59David Imel?

  I think it will. I think a lot of it comes down to incentives, right? It's like Twitter, X now pays people for engagement. So the reason that it goes off topic immediately is because if something gets a lot of likes or engagement, everyone else who wants to make money just posts some funny meme below it. That's not even relevant to the post. It's like, what are you consuming here?

• 22:20Andrew Manganelli?

  It also helps that the you can get the people who want to make money are verified because you can only make money through verification. And now blue check is the top of posts, so they automatically get a.

• 22:30David Imel?

  Yes.

• 22:31Andrew Manganelli?

  To only fight with the other ones. So yeah, it's it's really hard to find, especially if you're a larger account like Marquez.

• 22:37David Imel?

  Like, yeah.

• 22:38Andrew Manganelli?

  I used to go through your tweets all the time and read comments and like get useful feedback.

• 22:43David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 22:44Andrew Manganelli?

  That hasn't happened in a while.

• 22:46Speaker 02

  It seems like it's the worst on X.

• 22:48David Imel?

  Yeah, it is definitely the worst on X. Threads is also, it's just this giant grinder of people that just throws people at you and none of them know who you are. And there's no like context about what you're talking about, about who you're talking to. And so there's a lot more fighting on threads. I noticed last week someone posted about how Final Cut is like a really good value and how it's crazy that you only have to pay $299 once and you get it for life and it's a great value. And I just commented, yeah, you know, Apple does that because it's more valuable for them to keep you on the MacBook and the whole Apple ecosystem.

• 23:23Speaker 02

  How dare you?

• 23:24David Imel?

  So they're willing, so they're willing to like sell you a product once and not charge a subscription service because it keeps you in the ecosystem. And the person immediately started screaming about at me and was like, how does that negate anything that I said about blah blah? And I was like, dude, I literally commented, I'm not trying to fight you, man. I'm just like creating a dialogue about like why Apple does this. I'm not saying it's good or bad.

• 23:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm trying to start a thread, bro.

• 23:52David Imel?

  Yeah, he eventually backed down, but I feel like the vibe on threads is that people all, people are always yelling at each other. So people assume to be yelled at, whereas on Blue Sky, because it's more focused on the people you follow. And then like second level connections, like if Andrew were to comment on something on another person's post, I'd see that. That at least gives you some context as to like what you're communicating with, and it's just a healthier dynamic. And that's been completely destroyed with most of the other social media networks, primarily because of incentives like making money. Threads also pays a lot of people to make money by posting, which is what has caused a lot of engagement bait. So, uh, yeah, Blue Sky, it's obviously like more like old Twitter where you, you don't make money on it.

• 24:34David Imel?

  It's more focused on your friends and right now they're not a public company. So they don't have to grow their user base so rapidly like the other companies do. Hopefully it stays that way.

• 24:45Speaker 02

  That's, if they stayed private, it would be the best thing ever. Please don't IPO. Please don't IPO.

• 24:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Even just that though, more users always, the more people we have, the more chance there is for things we don't like to happen.

• 24:57David Imel?

  Also true, also true.

• 24:59Andrew Manganelli?

  It'll be the weird thing of like, is this thing on to like, I wish this thing was off. You gotta hit that middle.

• 25:05David Imel?

  There's also an irony where the chronicle chronological feed allows you to jump on, look at the like eight posts that have been posted since the last time you were on and then be done.

• 25:14Speaker 02

  True.

• 25:14David Imel?

  Threads wants that to never happen.

• 25:17Speaker 02

  They want to keep you on, they want to keep you on the site as long as possible. They want to keep you around engaging and hopefully showing you things as much as it's just like every other algorithmic feed. They just want to show you things that will keep you happy and keep you on the site and making the money through ads.

• 25:28David Imel?

  Right. Whereas this makes me happy, but I'm not on it as much, whereas Threads makes me sad and I'm on it too much.

• 25:34Speaker 02

  Have we had the conversation about how Blue Sky makes money?

• 25:37David Imel?

  Well, right now they don't.

• 25:38Speaker 02

  So is that like a ticking time bomb type situation? Or do they, can they infinitely not make money?

• 25:44David Imel?

  They have talked about ads and like different things that they will do. It's sort of like Twitter, right?

• 25:49Speaker 02

  They're losing money, right? With servers.

• 25:51David Imel?

  Yeah, definitely. The more they scale and the more they grow, the more it's going to cost them.

• 25:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:56David Imel?

  For sure. Um, which is definitely a thing to think about.

• 26:00Speaker 04

  That is why we're still waiting for another server to pop up.

• 26:02David Imel?

  Yeah. Right now, bluesky.social is like the only server. It costs a lot of money to run a server.

• 26:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:07David Imel?

  So for a company to like run the infrastructure to run a server would be a lot. Um, but if you did, you did think about Twitter. Twitter didn't really make money for quite a while. And they had this stool dual stake shareholder thing where Jack Dorsey like owned a lot of the company. And I think he wasn't as focused on making money off of it, but actually just creating healthy social media. You can say what you want about Jack Dorsey, but he did care about the health of a social media platform. He's the one that actually like incubated Blue Sky at Twitter. And it was supposed to be the protocol that underlied Twitter. And then Elon bought Twitter, so that didn't happen. So they spun off. Anyway, if you want to know a lot more about Blue Sky and you're more interested, we have this whole deep dive episode, uh, that we did like two or three months ago. Um, so it's very relevant now.

• 26:52David Imel?

  So go watch that. We can link it in the description. Also, I made a long form episodes playlist on the waveform podcast channel. So if you.

• 27:02Speaker 02

  Smart.

• 27:03David Imel?

  If you go on the channel, you can, uh, you can watch all of them there.

• 27:06Speaker 02

  You can deep dive and then you can stay in our algorithmic feed.

• 27:08David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  Never leave.

• 27:10David Imel?

  Stay on the waveform podcast.

• 27:11Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 27:12David Imel?

  Sick.

• 27:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:13David Imel?

  All right, well, we should take a quick break. We're going to come back. We have a lot more to talk about with Google, but before we take a break, trivia.

• 27:23David Imel?

  It's way more exciting.

• 27:25Speaker 04

  First question.

• 27:26David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 27:26Speaker 04

  We all know that kilowatts is 1,000 watts.

• 27:30David Imel?

  Oh, my God, I might get this one.

• 27:31Speaker 04

  But which of these is bigger?

• 27:33David Imel?

  Oh, no.

• 27:34Speaker 04

  One decawatts.

• 27:35David Imel?

  Yoda watt.

• 27:36Speaker 04

  Or one watts?

• 27:39David Imel?

  Oh.

• 27:40Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 27:41David Imel?

  Deca, D E C A?

• 27:43Speaker 04

  D E C A watts?

• 27:44David Imel?

  I'm just going by my Latin.

• 27:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Is this one of those things where like?

• 27:48David Imel?

  It could be a fraction.

• 27:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Everyone outside the US are going to be like, I learned this in first grade.

• 27:52David Imel?

  Yep.

• 27:52Andrew Manganelli?

  And we're all going to have three different answers.

• 27:55David Imel?

  You're like, here, her, her. I learned about gold mining in first grade, so who's the real winner here?

• 28:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, we learned about freedom.

• 28:04Speaker 02

  You guys might have learned about science.

• 28:07Speaker 02

  But I got golden nuggets at home.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  That's funny. Fun fact. When David and I drive to work, we actually measure the drive's distance in gold nuggets. It takes approximately 137 gold nuggets for us to get to work.

• 28:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, fortnights. You know, Fortnite is a measurement of time. Two weeks, right? Yeah, two weeks.

• 28:24Andrew Manganelli?

  It's spelled differently in the game.

• 28:25Speaker 02

  It is spelled differently in the game. All right, we will come back after the break and the answers will be at the end like usual. See you in a bit.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  Fortnite.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  Support for the show comes from Framer. Picture this, you launch a website and your whole team's celebrating, then the support tickets start to roll in and put a damper on the mood. That's when you could use a website platform that lets teams build, ship, and improve their sites faster than ever while getting every detail right. For that, you could use Framer. It's a complete website platform, not just a builder, so teams can launch and keep improving their sites in one place. Framer lets you prompt, inspect, edit, and publish in one place at a whole new pace. On Framer, AI agents and humans work in tandem, so agents bring speed and scale, while people bring taste, judgment, and control. And that all takes place in the same workspace where the real site is designed, managed, reviewed, and published. Framer is an enterprise-level solution that

• 29:28Speaker 02

  the world's leading brands like Perplexity and Miro rely on to build their websites. Learn how you can get more out of your site from a Framer specialist or get started building for free today at framer.com/wave for 30% off a Framer Pro annual plan. So that's framer.com/wave. Rules and restrictions may apply. Welcome back. Today, we have a lot of Google news, a lot of googly googly news. R.I.P. Google News.

• 29:55David Imel?

  This is still around.

• 29:56Speaker 02

  Google News?

• 29:57David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 29:58Speaker 02

  Are you sure about that?

• 29:59David Imel?

  Yeah, I use it all the time.

• 30:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Can we name this episode Great Google?

• 30:02David Imel?

  Oh, sorry. Wait, what about, what was RSS thing called?

• 30:06Speaker 02

  Google Reader.

• 30:07David Imel?

  Ah, sorry.

• 30:08Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, that was a long time ago.

• 30:08David Imel?

  R I P Google Reader.

• 30:09Speaker 02

  R I P Google Reader.

• 30:10David Imel?

  Anyway. Anyway, okay, we got a lot of Google News. Now, this first story might break officially today. The story we're reporting on is a leak from Bloomberg that says that the story is supposed to come, actually come out, like, the official ruling today, today, the day of recording, Wednesday, November 20th. What the story is, is you might remember that back in August, a judge ruled that Google had been maintaining an illegal monopoly by paying search companies to be the default search engine. Remember that? We had a whole episode on it.

• 30:43Speaker 02

  And they'd say that was not cool.

• 30:44Andrew Manganelli?

  I thought the episode we had on They Have Too Many Lawsuits.

• 30:47David Imel?

  There's a lot of lawsuits.

• 30:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, because we also did the Play Store one.

• 30:49David Imel?

  We did.

• 30:50Andrew Manganelli?

  That they got in trouble with recently.

• 30:51David Imel?

  We did. There's quite a few. But that, that is the one in which they said Google is actually maintaining a monopoly. So we've been wondering what that remedy was going to be. And it turns out, at least according to this Bloomberg leak, again, the actual story might drop today, that the Department of Justice is going to be asking the judge to force Google to spin off Chrome, like, the Chrome browser, specifically because Chrome represents a key access point in how people use Google Search.

• 31:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Microsoft Chrome, anyone?

• 31:21David Imel?

  No.

• 31:23Speaker 02

  Okay, I've always wondered about these, like, spin-off things, like, break up this big company into several smaller businesses, right? So Chrome is too big, spin it off, it has to compete on level playing ground with Safari, Edge, everyone else, it's its own separate business, right?

• 31:39David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 31:39Speaker 02

  What's preventing that talent who just worked for Google from collaborating with Google? Are there more laws that have to, like, drive a wedge between Google and Chrome? Or is it just they're technically separate by the books now? I don't really know how it works.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  It's that, it's that now... Google can't tell Chrome how to operate.

• 32:01David Imel?

  But they can still collaborate?

• 32:03Speaker 01

  They can, but Chrome can now collaborate with any other company or business organization.

• 32:09David Imel?

  So they may get a better deal.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  The idea isn't that Chrome is so powerful and holds so much of the market that they need to be their own thing. It's that Google can use Chrome as leverage to control the entire corporate landscape.

• 32:22David Imel?

  Because remember, Chrome is a free application, right? They spend a lot of money developing Chrome, but they use Chrome as a portal to all of Google's goods and services that actually do make money.

• 32:32Speaker 02

  Right.

• 32:33David Imel?

  It's like, not dissimilar to the Nexus 7, which they lost $50 on every Nexus 7 they sold just to get people to sign up for the Google Play Store.

• 32:40Speaker 02

  R.I.P.

• 32:41David Imel?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 32:44Andrew Manganelli?

  So then at this point, somebody else in the market can come to Chrome.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:48Andrew Manganelli?

  And offer.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  Chrome, all that sweet, sweet user data that Chrome is collecting relentlessly, they could sell that to everybody now.

• 32:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 32:55Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 32:55David Imel?

  So.

• 32:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:56David Imel?

  Yeah. So the issue right now is like Chrome is reportedly worth between 15 and 20 billion dollars. So any company that could actually afford to buy Chrome is also probably one of the giant companies.

• 33:07Speaker 02

  I would say, no one's gonna, yeah, they shouldn't buy Chrome. But if Google splits from Chrome and they're like, dang, they're really salty about it, but they still want to use Chrome as leverage. They still cut special deals with the Chrome business to continue to maintain.

• 33:23David Imel?

  Well, I mean, they're under this DOJ scrutiny, so I don't think they would allow that to happen.

• 33:28Speaker 02

  Well, interesting.

• 33:29David Imel?

  Exactly.

• 33:30Andrew Manganelli?

  It's my only contribution.

• 33:33Speaker 02

  I guess I don't know the specifics of how those things work, and I'm curious.

• 33:37Andrew Manganelli?

  It's fine.

• 33:37Speaker 02

  Neither do they yet.

• 33:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, that's a good point. But I guess also in that is, it'll be, you can't cut special deals when you have other companies coming in with deals that are probably sweeter than that. So even if at the end of the day, well, you can't, you can, but it's less incentivizing to.

• 33:55David Imel?

  That's true.

• 33:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Everyone wants to make money. When Chrome is its own thing, they are gonna wanna make money. They won't give a damn that Google is like, made them or whatever. They're gonna ditch that and they're gonna make as much money as possible. And even if it winds up being. Google still is like the main connection to Chrome, all that. Google will probably have to pay more money in all of that.

• 34:15David Imel?

  This is not dissimilar to how Android was originally started as an open source platform, because they needed to get a bunch of OEMs to use Android, to grow Android. But as soon as Android became huge, they started tying all of these things that used to be in AOSP to Google Play Services, so that you had to sign Google's license agreements, even though Android's open sourced. Like, if you use Android, you're stuck on like Android 5.0, basically, with all the, all the stuff that they included in AOSP.

• 34:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Right.

• 34:44David Imel?

  So, that's a big reason why they needed to break them up. They're also asking the judge to force Google to license its search data and let publishers more easily opt out of training Gemini on their work, which they currently don't do. Yeah, so.

• 34:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Let me opt out, please.

• 35:00David Imel?

  Yeah, that's, that's the leak from this morning. So, this could easily change by the time we're live with this podcast, but.

• 35:08Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm interested in what the opt out thing would be, because it, it feels like we need that one, like, base ruling to be able to reference in terms of opting out of AI stuff, because it seems like every company right now is like, we know it's coming, let's get as much as we can before we have to actually do anything.

• 35:24David Imel?

  Previously, they had this file called robots.txt that if in robots.txt you put a thing that said you cannot train on this, you were supposed to adhere to that. But then a bunch of companies like Perplexity got caught, basically just completely ignoring robots.txt. And they would say like, oh, it wasn't us, it was like one of our vendors that goes around collecting data. But it's the exact same thing that happened with that pile dataset, where they were like, yeah, we're using the pile, but we're not the ones that collected it. It's like.

• 35:54Andrew Manganelli?

  I have a question about this.

• 35:55David Imel?

  Sure.

• 35:55Andrew Manganelli?

  So let's say Chrome does get spun off, and like this article says that a potential buyer could be like Amazon.

• 36:02David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 36:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Wouldn't that just make them the monopoly?

• 36:04David Imel?

  That's what, that's what I was saying.

• 36:06Andrew Manganelli?

  That's weird.

• 36:06David Imel?

  Yeah, so I mean, yeah, it's strange that they're even trying to make them like, sell it, as opposed to just spinning it off and having them be their own business. Obviously, it might be a little bit difficult for them to just figure out how to make money out of nowhere. That might be the main problem. I'm sure they're gonna be giving a timeline and a bunch of stuff like that, but it is kind of problematic that they're worth 15 to 20 billion dollars. They also make Chromium, which is now the underlying browser engine behind Edge, and then a bunch of other browsers. Firefox is like one of the only browsers right now that doesn't use Chromium.

• 36:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Is Safari on WebKit and then?

• 36:46David Imel?

  It's on WebKit, yeah. I don't know if Firefox is on WebKit. I know Safari is. I don't think Firefox is on WebKit. But yeah, Safari Safari and Firefox are like some of the only browsers not on Chromium. Arc is on Chromium. It's everywhere.

• 36:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 36:58David Imel?

  So, yeah.

• 37:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Firefox is on Quantum browser engine.

• 37:02David Imel?

  Which is their own one, yeah. But again, Mozilla is a foundation, so there's that. And they're like, they weren't really making any money either, besides selling, letting Google pay them to have them be the default search engine. So I don't know how Firefox is gonna make money after this. But either way, yeah, it's like, it is kind of a foundational thing to have a browser with the most market share as a portal to all the Google goods and services, because they just really plug in everything. You know, they're trying to make Gemini like a core part of the Chrome browser now. So, that is gonna play out throughout the week. We'll probably talk about it again.

• 37:44Andrew Manganelli?

  So play out through the next seven years. Episode 600 will have the final ruling of what happened to Chrome.

• 37:51David Imel?

  Probably. But the next story is actually fairly relevant to this. The next story.

• 37:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Story number two.

• 37:56David Imel?

  Yes, Google story number two. Google is reportedly ditching Chrome OS and making everything Android. That actually would make sense in conjunction with this, because obviously, Google can't really have Chrome OS when Chrome is Chrome and gonna be a separate company potentially. So, they want to, apparently, they want to make everything Android, because it would allow it to compete with the iPad a lot more easily. They don't really feel like Chrome OS really works on tablets and Androids. Sort of is the only thing on tablets right now. And it doesn't, it doesn't make sense that they have such a fragmented ecosystem when it comes to.

• 38:33Speaker 02

  People have been talk, I feel like people have been talking about this for years, like, when are they gonna merge? Are they gonna merge? And if anyone ever asked Google, they'd be like, no, no, no, no, no, they're totally separate. Yeah, Chrome OS. I mean, you can put Android apps on it, but they're totally separate. It was always a little confusing.

• 38:46David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 38:46Speaker 02

  And so this, to me, makes a lot of sense in, in general, just because of the user experience. So.

• 38:51David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 38:52Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah. Putting Android in everything.

• 38:53David Imel?

  So, and they're also reportedly working on a new flagship Pixel laptop that will probably run Android. So, my question becomes Chrome OS is just this really awkward operating system with this vision that Google had where the internet was your computer. You always had Wi-Fi, Chromebooks, and that you were always going to store all, everything in the cloud and nothing needed to run locally. So they can sell them cheaply. They can put them in schools, all of this stuff. I feel like we are quickly moving towards this world where that's not really the case anymore. Apple has never shifted everything into the cloud. They have some stuff in the cloud, like your photos and all that stuff. But they're all about local processing.

• 39:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:36David Imel?

  And a lot of applications require a lot of local processing.

• 39:40Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 39:41David Imel?

  So my question is like a premium Pixel book, Pixel laptop that uses Android. If it's as expensive as a MacBook Air or like a Mac Mini.

• 39:53Speaker 02

  Or the last Pixel book?

• 39:55David Imel?

  Or the last, well, yeah, the last Pro Pixel book was, was very expensive. And it's just, you can't do that much on them, you know?

• 40:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I, so Chromebooks had a small niche of success and.

• 40:09David Imel?

  They had a lot of success.

• 40:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, they depended on you obviously having an internet connection. So like they're the most useful when you do have a reliable internet connection. And they seem like a dumb idea when you don't.

• 40:20David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  So.

• 40:21David Imel?

  But also applications that just don't run on them, right? You can't use Photoshop on.

• 40:25Speaker 02

  Also true.

• 40:25David Imel?

  You gotta use Photoshop Web and all that.

• 40:26Speaker 02

  I think the argument would be like, if you're a student or if it's, if it's your first laptop or whatever, 99% of the things you would ever do on a laptop are available through web apps. Like you, you have web apps that can edit photos. Have web apps that can, you know, edit music. You can make all kinds of things with them. And so it was like, yeah, I'll, I'll do everything on the Chromebook and I, I don't need to pay a ton for storage. I don't need to pay a ton for RAM, like all the processing is happening elsewhere. I just saved a bunch of money and I always have an internet connection. So this is great.

• 40:53David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 40:53Speaker 02

  So it made a lot of sense if you had a good internet connection, but that is an if.

• 40:58David Imel?

  Right.

• 40:58Speaker 02

  That not everyone can say they have.

• 40:59David Imel?

  Also, I kind of think that Google only really made Chromebooks to sell very cheaply to schools. Because exactly why the Department of Justice is suing Google over Chrome being this like way to get access to all the other goods and services that Google offers. They're just onboarding children onto Google services so that there are, they already have accounts by the time they're in high school, right? And you're not going to like, there's friction between switching everything from Google services to Apple or Amazon or whatever.

• 41:29Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 41:30David Imel?

  And so it's just like a way for them to get the next generation of people on Google stuff. Which makes sense because they always talk about the next billion users and like the young people are going to be the next.

• 41:39Speaker 02

  They're being born right now.

• 41:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 41:41Speaker 01

  And that's also, that's not a new practice in the industry too. I remember my dad telling me when he was studying CS at Brown in the eighties, that at one, like his sophomore or junior year or something like that, Apple just came and gave Brown like

• 41:55David Imel?

  Totally.

• 41:55Speaker 01

  Thousands of new computers.

• 41:56David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  And no one at the time was using Apple computers, but the next six or seven graduating classes at Brown.

• 42:02David Imel?

  Yeah. No, at my middle school, Apple always donated computers to us for our computer lab and they donated Final Cut, Final Cut seven. And they donated all this Apple stuff.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  iLife.

• 42:12David Imel?

  iLife.

• 42:13Speaker 01

  iLife.

• 42:14David Imel?

  iLife.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. I didn't unbox one of those many years later.

• 42:17David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 42:18Andrew Manganelli?

  This, I guess my only question here is at what level is this? Cause like Chrome OS made sense because it wasn't Windows. But if we're just doing a laptop that's trying to do things offline, why is it not just Windows? Cause they're just making, this sounds more like a Windows competitor than.

• 42:38David Imel?

  Well, Google wants to have something from the ground up, right?

• 42:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Google wants their Windows.

• 42:42David Imel?

  Yeah. The problem is Android is not Windows. And it's sort of, I mean, they're, they're, just like the VR headsets are barreling towards the smart glasses and the smart glasses are barreling towards VR headsets. Android phones are barreling towards being able to be computers that you can plug in. And Android-based computers are barreling towards the ability to have touchscreens and use them like tablets.

• 43:06Speaker 01

  Wait, wait, wait. Android and Windows are not that different, right?

• 43:11Speaker 02

  That's, I guess that's kind of-

• 43:13Speaker 01

  They both are prone to crashing a lot. They both have massive security flaws.

• 43:19David Imel?

  Okay.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  You know, okay.

• 43:21Speaker 02

  That's right. They both can actually transfer files easily through a cable.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  Imagine that.

• 43:26Speaker 01

  I love installing the Android file transfer app on every Mac I've ever owned.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, like- You can play PUBG on both of them.

• 43:35David Imel?

  If Google was like, if they would just stop with all the cloud stuff and they were actually able to develop Android applications that were actual competitors to things that people need to use every day, this could be different. But, you know, they just released this Google Online Video Editor where you can like tell AI to create a video for you and then you can do little edits, but it's all in the cloud. You know, it's like they, they're so against doing anything locally. But I feel like when Apple is, is offering all of this local power and local storage and people need that and want that for professional work, I just don't see how you can sell a really, really high-end Chrome- Google has tried this like five times. They've tried the high-end Pixelbook Chromebook thing

• 44:18David Imel?

  and they never sell that many because they're super expensive and they're less useful.

• 44:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, so these are, these are diametrically opposed ideas on how to compute. Put as much of the power on the device as possible so that you always have the fastest local power all the time. And that seems to work best for high-end applications. And then get as much compute off the device as possible is the other side, which is, seems to be best for low-end applications.

• 44:45David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 44:46Speaker 02

  And so somewhere in the middle is this clashing point of like, eh, a high-end Chromebook, it doesn't really seem to be a good idea. Or a really low-end, you know, computer with everything local is also kind of a tough sell. You still need all this power and all this storage and all this fast bandwidth and all that. So it's like kind of challenging.

• 45:01David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 45:02Speaker 02

  So on either end of the spectrum, it's more obvious, but in the mid- It's kind of like, I guess it's not that compelling.

• 45:08David Imel?

  Yeah. One thing they might be thinking about is how the Pixel line and Android devices interact with their computers. Right? Because they haven't really had a match to the parity that the iPhone and the MacBook communicate. And over the last few years, they've been making so Android phones and Windows computers and then Android phones and Chromebooks could communicate a little bit more seamlessly with file transfer and clipboard copying and that kind of stuff. So maybe if you're like a Pixel phone user, this new Pixel laptop that's premium will have a lot of interconnectivity features with your Pixel smartphone. That might be the draw that they're trying to bring people in with.

• 45:46Andrew Manganelli?

  I do have, I was gonna say, I like see a bunch of you using iMessage on your laptop all of the time. And I'm so jealous. I can't do that. I have like the

• 45:56David Imel?

  Android messages.

• 45:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Messages dot Google in a tab.

• 45:59David Imel?

  Google.

• 45:59Andrew Manganelli?

  But like, yeah, Google Messages like in a tab that I can type. But you have to have it open and it doesn't have like good notifications and stuff like that.

• 46:05David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 46:05Andrew Manganelli?

  So I wish I just had a first party, obviously not first party, but a program inside of.

• 46:09David Imel?

  It is pretty nice.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  I always figured Google was like one step away from doing that and they never did. Like having, and there's just a rumor recently, I'll try to find the headline, but of like, oh, Google Messages should work with like the cloud and should work on a bunch of devices in sync in real time. But also, uh, when I had an old like Pixel book, it would, there would be a couple ties. You could like share the internet connection from your phone. There'd be like instant one-click tethering. There'd be a couple things like you could use the phone as a webcam. There are just a few ties to the laptop, but it never felt like fully like a two-way street. Yeah, it was, it wasn't really quite as integrated as, as Apple's done.

• 46:49David Imel?

  I think this very much comes down to Google's structure and how they're built and all the teams that are like spun off to make different things. Like there was a period of time and this still might be the case, I'm not sure, where you couldn't use RCS and Google Messages Web at the same time. Because they use like different protocols. So you had to turn RCS off if you use Google Messages.

• 47:09Speaker 02

  Those teams are in different buildings. They've never met each other.

• 47:12David Imel?

  And it was like, what are we doing? This is insane. Um, so who knows? Okay. Google story number three. Android 16 just dropped, which is crazy.

• 47:22Speaker 02

  That was fast.

• 47:22David Imel?

  We were not expecting that. It kinda came out multiple months in advance, uh, as opposed to how it's come out in previous years. It launched in developer preview, so DP1. Usually, this doesn't even happen until like February or so of the, of the next year. So the fact that Android 15 only officially came out literally last month, and now we have...

• 47:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, we just started getting on, everyone's Pixels just got it and every other phone is slowly starting to get it.

• 47:50David Imel?

  Right.

• 47:51Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 47:51David Imel?

  And now we just got DP1 for Android 16, which is crazy. Um, the, Google says that they're moving towards more frequent API releases to be able to deliver faster innovation in apps and devices. So far, there's not a lot of stuff that's really that different with Android 16. The main changes are that it's gonna give access to the Android photo picker, which lets users select specific photos and videos they wanna share with an app instead of like their entire library. The iPhone has had this for a while on iOS. Uh, and it also includes the latest Privacy Sandbox and a preview of Android's Health Connect app, which supports health records and allows apps to read and write medical records in the standardized FHIR, or Fast Healthcare Interoperability Resources, format.

• 48:36David Imel?

  Which, um, basically, I think they're just trying to have more interconnectivity with the way that actual doctors and hospitals read medical information because these devices that we're carrying every single day, using every single day, are collecting a lot more data than a doctor is able to just randomly collect at an appointment. So I think they're getting ready for a future where you're able to just like hand over your phone or like send them a file and they instantly know all the health data about you that you've been using, which is...

• 49:04Andrew Manganelli?

  You get system restored at the doctor's office?

• 49:07David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 49:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Imagine you bring your error code into the, your primary care physician when you're not feeling good.

• 49:15David Imel?

  It's, uh, yeah, it's, these are neat things. These are cool features. They're useful. It's also, I mean, we said this about the last version of Android. It feels like it could be a .1 update. Like, why is this?

• 49:25Speaker 02

  Well, this is DP1. Often, you don't see things until DP3.

• 49:29David Imel?

  Sure, there could be way more bigger features coming.

• 49:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:32David Imel?

  Um, but even the last update, Android 15, felt like a .1 update to Android 14, so...

• 49:37Speaker 02

  Totally. Curious what's coming.

• 49:39David Imel?

  The big things I would like to see is we got to see the very beginnings of being able like a Dex-like experience, but just built into Android.

• 49:47Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 49:47David Imel?

  We saw a very early version of that.

• 49:49Speaker 02

  See, remember like the difference between Android 3.0 and 4.0?

• 49:54David Imel?

  But we're so mature now.

• 49:55Speaker 02

  That's what I'm saying. Like, you don't have to have a huge new version number every year.

• 49:58David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 49:59Speaker 02

  But they're so like, they just do it.

• 50:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, you do because they're prom- are they promising years of security upgrades or versions?

• 50:05Speaker 02

  Years. So they could go seven years and it can only be two version numbers and that'd be fine. It'd be seven years of things.

• 50:10David Imel?

  It's like the difference between turning four and five and 44 and 45.

• 50:14Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 50:15Andrew Manganelli?

  That's a really good, even younger, like, lane at this point is like 12 months to 13 months is like multiple new upgrades.

• 50:25Speaker 02

  Firmware updates like every week. It's crazy.

• 50:27David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 50:27Speaker 02

  Now it's like, yeah, you don't really have to do too much.

• 50:29David Imel?

  It's an S-curve after 25 when your brain finishes developing.

• 50:32Andrew Manganelli?

  And your knees start to deteriorate.

• 50:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, we'll keep an eye out for future Android features that get updated for 16 or get announced for 16. But, uh, yeah, feels like a dot one update to me.

• 50:45David Imel?

  Yeah, it's dot 001, really.

• 50:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. All right, well, there's a little bit more. We, we got a whole segment on Microsoft Teams after this. It's gonna be incredible.

• 50:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Ellis wants to throw-

• 50:53David Imel?

  It's kind of interesting.

• 50:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Ellis wants to throw one more thing in.

• 50:56Speaker 01

  I have one more Google thing, which is that, uh, if any of you get the chance, uh, we didn't have time to talk about this week, but David Streitfeld wrote a really great article in the New York Times about the Google antitrust suit, specifically about Google's great lengths they went to internally to delete all communications and evidence that everyone at Google knew they were a monopoly, um, including to the point where they would refer to certain conversations as Vegas. Like, they'd be like, "Hey, do you want to go to Vegas?" And that meant, "Let's talk about how we're a monopoly." Um, also the fact that no one at Google knows what privileged means. Like, before having a really toxic conversation where they admitted they were a monopoly, they'd just be like, "This is privileged." And just assume that that meant lawyers couldn't look at it, which is hilarious.

• 51:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Are you a cop? You have to tell me?

• 51:42Speaker 01

  It's like, it is like that level of like, I love clowning on fan companies and they make it, excuse me, manga companies.

• 51:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  Uh, and they make it too easy.

• 51:52Speaker 02

  Also Nvidia's in there now.

• 51:53Speaker 01

  Get ready, Nvidia. Locked and loaded.

• 51:55Speaker 02

  Man.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  Uh, oh, yeah.

• 51:58Speaker 02

  Cause Netflix was the end before.

• 52:00Speaker 01

  Anyway. Trivia!

• 52:03David Imel?

  Name all of the companies. Nvidia is most of-

• 52:06Speaker 01

  Name all the companies, ready?

• 52:07Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't even know what you guys are talking about.

• 52:09Speaker 01

  McDonald's.

• 52:10David Imel?

  Manga.

• 52:11Speaker 01

  Acura.

• 52:12David Imel?

  It used to be Fang, which is Facebook, Apple, Netflix, Google.

• 52:15Andrew Manganelli?

  I've literally never heard that.

• 52:16Speaker 01

  GameStop.

• 52:17David Imel?

  And then they started expanding it to be like slightly more- Microsoft, Amazon, Netflix, Google, Apple.

• 52:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Netflix is in there and can't even have an actual streaming event?

• 52:28David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 52:28Andrew Manganelli?

  They don't, they should get kicked out.

• 52:30David Imel?

  There was a story that said it was the most streamed sports event of all time, though.

• 52:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Most, yeah, we were actually, no, no, viewed. Or streamed, streamed, streamed, which Marquez and I were debating, that must mean internet streamed only.

• 52:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 52:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Which that, that makes sense.

• 52:43David Imel?

  Which is a newer thing. TV, obviously the Super Bowl, I don't know, 100 million views.

• 52:47Andrew Manganelli?

  That's broadcast, I guess.

• 52:49David Imel?

  Yeah, it's broadcast, not streamed, so.

• 52:51Speaker 01

  Question number two, this is the last trivia question you guys will hear before we record Trivia Extravaganza-

• 52:58David Imel?

  Let's go.

• 52:58Speaker 01

  Later this afternoon. So, if you can tell us, right now, what everyone's score is in trivia, you will get a point. You will get bonus points if you can name the scores on the board that are not the three of you.

• 53:17Andrew Manganelli?

  The scores are the, just the, the contestant?

• 53:21Speaker 01

  There are four contestants on the board who are not the three of you. I would like their scores.

• 53:25David Imel?

  Oh, boy. Okay. That's tough. I think I- I'm gonna need some time. I think I know a couple.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  As well, as well as-

• 53:30Andrew Manganelli?

  As their-

• 53:30Speaker 01

  As your scores.

• 53:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 53:33David Imel?

  I know. Your score is in seven points ago.

• 53:36Andrew Manganelli?

  So you only get a point-

• 53:37David Imel?

  Thanks.

• 53:37Andrew Manganelli?

  You only get a bonus point if you name the contestant and their matching score.

• 53:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and I'll give you a point per contestant score combo pair.

• 53:46David Imel?

  Hmm.

• 53:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 53:47David Imel?

  Cool. All right, well, we will do a lot of mental math and think about that, and we'll be back after the break. Better hear Adam be like, "Update on the score."

• 54:10Speaker 02

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• 54:55Speaker 02

  media, and even in AI chats. If you're ready to launch a business before Black Friday, go to Shopify.com/waveform to start your free trial. That's Shopify.com/waveform. So go to Shopify.com/waveform today to hear your first...

• 55:11Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 55:13Speaker 02

  Shred? Yeah, whatever. Okay. All right, welcome back.

• 55:17Speaker 02

  It's not that...

• 55:19Andrew Manganelli?

  The world's burning. Go ahead and breathe fast.

• 55:21Speaker 02

  Who cares? Welcome back. We are gonna talk about Microsoft Teams. I wasn't joking before. This is the most exciting thing on this week's podcast. And that's because there's an article that Microsoft Teams, starting next year, allegedly, will help you speak in foreign languages during meetings.

• 55:39Speaker 01

  No, it won't.

• 55:40Speaker 02

  And we have some skeptics on the podcast, but let's at least break down what it's supposed to do before we get into our skepticism. Right. Have you ever been on a meeting where maybe you're the only person who speaks one language and everyone else speaks a different language? And if you could just speak in your normal language and maybe some AI magic could just make it sound like you're speaking the language of everyone else on the call, then you wouldn't have to think too hard. The Babbel fish. And then every time they spoke, it would translate it to your language, and you could hear them and understand them, and it would just be this magical AI translate feature. I don't know how many magical AI translate features we're gonna have to live through before one of them actually works, but this one could be built into Microsoft Teams in 2025. And it would be pretty sick if it worked.

• 56:20Speaker 01

  It won't.

• 56:21Andrew Manganelli?

  I think you hit the nail on the head there with, "We've seen this 100 times."

• 56:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:26Andrew Manganelli?

  "And I still have yet to see..." It kind of working in real life.

• 56:30David Imel?

  I mean, the weird thing is every time a company usually comes out and says we do real life, real time translation, it usually means speak, wait three seconds, it comes out, speak, wait three seconds, it comes out, which is not real time. This, at least in their video, looked very close to real time. It's sort of like in one of those documentaries where a person that doesn't speak the language that you're listening to, starts talking in their language, it ducks the audio and then they dub it over the top. It, it kind of looked like that. Whether or not it works seamlessly, I don't.

• 57:03Speaker 02

  Alice.

• 57:05David Imel?

  Yeah, I don't like Microsoft either, but.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  Look, we did, do you guys remember waveform episode 206?

• 57:13Speaker 02

  Like a, like this.

• 57:14Andrew Manganelli?

  The back of my hand.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, we, there was a trivia question about this. There was a trivia question about specifically this, because Microsoft unveiled live translation in 2010, and then again in 2012, and then again in 2014, and then again, I had somewhere around 2017, they keep doing this.

• 57:30David Imel?

  Everyone keeps doing.

• 57:31Speaker 01

  They've never actually delivered a product.

• 57:33Speaker 02

  No one has either. But at this point, if they.

• 57:36David Imel?

  I was just gonna talk in my language and then let go and it would talk in their language. It was gonna be great.

• 57:40Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, it does do that, but like David said, it's really like fragmented and it like, I'd argue the humane pin might be one of the best quote unquote live translators I've seen in person, but it is painfully slow to actually get through the entire.

• 57:54David Imel?

  I understand your skepticism, Alice.

• 57:56Speaker 01

  Guys, this was, this was a feature they said would be baked into Skype in Windows 8.1.

• 58:02David Imel?

  Yeah, but they didn't have chat GPT back then.

• 58:04Andrew Manganelli?

  You can't take 8.1.

• 58:06David Imel?

  They didn't know what they were doing. I understand your skepticism. I also think the specific advancements in AI that we have been making play specifically well to things like translation and AI voice modeling.

• 58:18Speaker 02

  They had tiny language models back then.

• 58:19David Imel?

  I think, yes, long, short term memory. I do think it is much more viable now than it was in 2010.

• 58:26Speaker 01

  No, but this time he's gonna change.

• 58:29Andrew Manganelli?

  At this point, I'd be.

• 58:30David Imel?

  We have to make a.

• 58:31Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm willing to make this bet.

• 58:33Speaker 02

  I would like you guys to make a bet.

• 58:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, what's the bet?

• 58:35Speaker 02

  I mean, the bet, so available early 2025 is the official promise from Microsoft, whether you want to bet it around that.

• 58:43David Imel?

  I don't, I'm not betting the time, I'm betting that it actually works.

• 58:46Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 58:47Speaker 01

  When it comes out.

• 58:49David Imel?

  When it comes out.

• 58:49Speaker 01

  So regardless of when, so if it comes out 100 years from now.

• 58:52David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 58:53Speaker 01

  And it works, you still win this bet.

• 58:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 58:55Speaker 02

  It has to be in Teams, though.

• 58:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:57David Imel?

  Uh, yeah.

• 58:58Speaker 01

  No, you know what? I'm feeling so confident about this. I will make, I will put the, the time extension at the beginning of 2027. I will give you all of 2025 and 2026 for this to get added to Teams. Because I'm so confident it will not be. And if it does, I will give the Microsoft engineering team the biggest round of applause. I'll say, you guys did it. It only took you 15 years of lying to everyone to get this done.

• 59:25Speaker 02

  Here's the, here's the paragraph on Microsoft's website. Imagine being able to sound just like you in a different language. Because, you know, we've had AI dubbing before. Imagine being able to sound just like you in a different language. The interpreter agent in Teams provides real time speech to speech interpretation during meetings. And you can opt to have it simulate your speaking voice for a more personal and engaging experience. Public preview coming in early 2025.

• 59:50David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 59:51Speaker 02

  That's not a developer preview, that's a public preview.

• 59:53David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 59:54Speaker 02

  It could be in our hands in like three months.

• 59:56David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 59:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Damn. Get those hands warmed up, Al. So you about to be clapping, boy?

• 1:00:01Speaker 01

  I will clap. You know what, David? I'm feeling so confident that I will, I am willing to bet you right now, if this comes out fully, like as a full feature, not, not like a preview.

• 1:00:11David Imel?

  So not as a preview?

• 1:00:13Speaker 01

  No, no, before 2027, for January 1st, 2027. Al, shave his head. No, even worse.

• 1:00:19David Imel?

  Oh, no.

• 1:00:20Speaker 01

  I will use an Android phone for a month.

• 1:00:23David Imel?

  Really?

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  Even worse.

• 1:00:25David Imel?

  Even worse.

• 1:00:26Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:00:26David Imel?

  That's a crazy.

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  Uh, okay. Yeah.

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  And what will you do January twenty twenty seven when this doesn't ship?

• 1:00:33Andrew Manganelli?

  David will shave Ellis's head.

• 1:00:36Speaker 02

  I want you to believe in this, like, really believe that it will happen.

• 1:00:40David Imel?

  I do believe this will happen.

• 1:00:41Speaker 02

  So how much do you believe?

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, how much do you believe?

• 1:00:43Speaker 02

  Well, what does it do for me if you use an Android phone? It just makes our communications worse. Damn, that's true. That's a great point.

• 1:00:52David Imel?

  Like, that doesn't benefit me.

• 1:00:54Andrew Manganelli?

  All right, we'll think of the bet offline and we'll get back to you.

• 1:00:57David Imel?

  We'll go back to you.

• 1:00:58Andrew Manganelli?

  In future weeks. We have two more quick stories. Marquez, I'd like you to pick which one, because I think you'll find both of these interesting.

• 1:01:06Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:01:07Andrew Manganelli?

  We can either talk about the new Alex Goldman podcast, which officially starts this week, or knee airbags.

• 1:01:16Speaker 01

  Sounds like you need that.

• 1:01:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Marquez and I both have a couple of things in common, and these nail them pretty well.

• 1:01:22David Imel?

  The Arcteryx exoskeleton and knee airbags.

• 1:01:27David Imel?

  Nothing can hurt me.

• 1:01:30Speaker 02

  Let me hear about these knee airbags. I need to understand this.

• 1:01:33Andrew Manganelli?

  All right, so, Marquez, you and I met playing Ultimate. You know, I stopped it because I had three ACL tears, four knee surgeries, so I'm a disc golfer. I'm a lonely disc golfer now. You still play incredibly competitively. You're played at the biggest stages possible this year, but you know, you're on, you're thirty. Your knees are-

• 1:01:52Speaker 02

  You almost said a really tough sentence there.

• 1:01:54Andrew Manganelli?

  No, I did not.

• 1:01:54Speaker 02

  You're thirty.

• 1:01:55Andrew Manganelli?

  You're thirty. You're thirty.

• 1:01:58David Imel?

  You're starting to fall into the dust.

• 1:02:00Andrew Manganelli?

  You gotta start worrying about your knees. Your birthday's coming up, man. Each year after thirty, those knees start creaking a little more.

• 1:02:06Speaker 02

  It's a miracle I'm still here.

• 1:02:07Andrew Manganelli?

  So, I found this new knee brace. It kind of works in the same way. Have you seen? I still think this is one of the dumbest products ever, but they're like the helmets that aren't a helmet. You wear it around your neck, and it's like a one, I think it's a one-time use, but it like, as you're falling, it goes up. Because I guess people are so hell-bent on not wearing a helmet, they'd rather wear a super expensive neck brace.

• 1:02:30Speaker 02

  I saw a demo of that where it didn't work. So, yeah, I've seen it.

• 1:02:35Andrew Manganelli?

  So, yeah, this feels like that. So it's a knee brace, and it has all these little airbags around it. And if it basically detects any rotation or hyperextension within thirty milliseconds, all the airbags like pop and straighten your knee out and prevent it from hyperextending or rotating, which is what causes those internal knee- Issues or snappages. I hate to say snapping because I immediately wince when I think of it.

• 1:03:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. Do you think this would work?

• 1:03:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Listen, I'm not here to say if this is gonna be real or work. I'm just here to get your thoughts on it. Because it seems wild.

• 1:03:12Speaker 02

  Okay, I'm looking at it on the website and yeah, it just looks like kinda like a roller skating kneepad. But obviously if you fall.

• 1:03:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you know what it looks like? It looks like the old football helmets, the like leather ones that have like individual like padding all over it.

• 1:03:26Speaker 02

  Oh, I don't think this is gonna work. Here's the other thing. I saw the helmet thing, which was like it was like a hoodie and then when you wanted to text free fall.

• 1:03:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:35Speaker 02

  It's supposed to deploy the protection shield or whatever and then you land and your head's protected. And that was like, okay, it should be easy to detect free fall. And then a YouTuber, I don't know if it was Red or Red and Link or someone else, but someone like got it, put it on and just like fell onto a mat five or six times and it didn't trigger once and then they finally got it to trigger after they hit the ground. So.

• 1:03:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Imagine this, you like fall down, you tear your ACL, you're on the ground, you're like, oh, and then it just goes.

• 1:04:02Speaker 02

  And then it explodes.

• 1:04:05Speaker 02

  It's even worse.

• 1:04:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know if I have faith in this one. I like the idea and I think this would do great on Shark Tank. And then I think we would all realize it's a bad idea.

• 1:04:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Just based on the website, it's called Hippo, I think.

• 1:04:17Speaker 02

  Hippo.

• 1:04:18Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it's an interesting idea because I do really like, if you're getting into the age where knee issues are more prominent, and that's usually the age where a knee injury can kind of take you out of whatever sport you're really into. I mean, especially basketball, hockey, football, like ACLs are the things where at a certain age, there's a player right now, Alex Ovechkin, who's actually chasing one of Wayne Gretzky's record and he just had a knee injury the other day. And people are presuming it might be an ACL and he might not get the record now because he's already on that side of 30, which would be really sad, but I think like this is kind of an interesting idea. It is just pre-order and when you pre-order, it says like, enter in your email for a demo unit. So I don't know how close it is, but like.

• 1:05:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Man, if I could have saved one of my ACLs and this just felt like a normal knee brace, I think I'd be super into it.

• 1:05:09Speaker 02

  Honestly, for I, I think AI has a lot of potential to help injury prevention and to, and just to like sports science and sports medicine in general, like that's, that's where it should be the most useful. So I don't know if this exact product is necessarily a product of that, or if it's a little early, but in general, I think stats and AI and numbers can help with athletic injury prevention at some point.

• 1:05:32Andrew Manganelli?

  One of the things they do say is that it's, which I'm guessing in terms of monitoring, you would always have to be wearing this, but it says, part of the thing is analytics, which measures like fatigue and strain and like being able to produce a workout plan to help you strengthen and keep, cause like, in all of these things, I'm an idiot and I tore my ACL probably because I did not do proper like strength training around your knee, which is like super, super important. And when you play ultimate, you play on the worst fields possible and just absolutely rip it up. But uh, yeah, I don't know. I thought it was kind of interesting and uh, keep your knees safe, man. It's, it sucks to hurt them. Can confirm.

• 1:06:13Speaker 02

  My knees have not been in great condition recently either and I'm not even 30 yet.

• 1:06:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Just you wait, boy.

• 1:06:20Speaker 02

  I've been doing PT for my knee since March.

• 1:06:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Really?

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh my gosh.

• 1:06:24Speaker 02

  Good time.

• 1:06:25Andrew Manganelli?

  All right. I'll go last one.

• 1:06:26Speaker 02

  Evolution needs to fix this, seriously. Wow.

• 1:06:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Maybe it's working as intended. Um, last quick one. I've talked about this before. Alex Goldman, former host of Reply All, a podcast that I would argue if it didn't exist, Waveform might not exist because it was like the first podcast I ever listened to as a weekly basis type of thing. Um, Alex Goldman had released two pilot episodes of his new podcast called Hyperfixed. Tomorrow, which if you're listening to this was yesterday, is it officially coming out on a twice a month basis and I cannot wait. If you don't know about it, it's pretty similar to something called Two Super Tech Support they used to do on Reply All. And they basically, each episode is a problem someone brings to Alex. He tries to figure it out, throws a bunch of cool anecdotes on the way. He's just been

• 1:07:14Andrew Manganelli?

  great so far and I can't wait to just have like another normal podcast to like listen to on a regular basis.

• 1:07:22David Imel?

  Cool, cool.

• 1:07:23Speaker 02

  I have you, did you listen to?

• 1:07:24Andrew Manganelli?

  The pilots are really good.

• 1:07:26Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:07:26Andrew Manganelli?

  You should definitely listen. If you want the nostalgia of Reply All, it's 100% there.

• 1:07:31Speaker 02

  That's still my favorite podcast of all time.

• 1:07:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:33Speaker 02

  Okay, well, there's only one thing left to do here. And that is, uh, trivia.

• 1:07:46Andrew Manganelli?

  All right, update on the scores.

• 1:07:47Speaker 04

  Trivia, dude. So, quick update on the score.

• 1:07:50Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:07:51Speaker 04

  Question one. We all know that kilowatts is a thousand watts. But which one of these is bigger? One decawatt or one watt?

• 1:08:12Speaker 04

  David is deep in thought.

• 1:08:14Speaker 02

  I'm always deep in thought.

• 1:08:15Speaker 04

  Andrew looks angry.

• 1:08:17Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:08:17Speaker 04

  Marquez is doodling. I don't know what's gonna happen.

• 1:08:22Speaker 02

  I'm gonna be so mad if I'm wrong. I'm gonna be so mad.

• 1:08:24Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm going to feel exactly the same either way, which is mad.

• 1:08:28Speaker 04

  Flip 'em and read, what do we got? David?

• 1:08:33Speaker 02

  I put one watt?

• 1:08:37Speaker 04

  Wrong!

• 1:08:38Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:08:39Andrew Manganelli?

  I also put watt.

• 1:08:41Speaker 04

  Incorrect, Marquez.

• 1:08:42Speaker 02

  I put decawatt.

• 1:08:44Speaker 04

  Correct!

• 1:08:44Speaker 02

  The prefix deca means ten. And it was slippery because deci- Ah. This prefix deci is a tenth. That's- And I'm glad I got those. Damn, look at Roman Emperor Marquez Brown.

• 1:08:56Andrew Manganelli?

  I would like- I did know deci meant ten. And every part of my brain was like, "This is too easy." "It can't be that easy."

• 1:09:05Speaker 02

  That's why I was like, "I'm gonna be mad."

• 1:09:07Andrew Manganelli?

  So it sounds like it wasn't that easy. You had the thing to trick me on. I just didn't know the other thing to get tricked on.

• 1:09:12Speaker 04

  The original version of this was gonna be?

• 1:09:14Andrew Manganelli?

  What's that?

• 1:09:15Speaker 04

  I was gonna say, "What's one kilohertz?"

• 1:09:18Speaker 02

  What is one kilohertz? Like, how many hertz is it?

• 1:09:21Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:09:22Speaker 02

  A thousand?

• 1:09:23Speaker 04

  Correct.

• 1:09:23Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:09:24Speaker 04

  I was hoping you would get it in your head.

• 1:09:25Speaker 02

  Oh. Did you get my thing? The watt thing? What? You should've drawn the-

• 1:09:31Speaker 04

  Now I get it. It's one question mark. Got it.

• 1:09:36Speaker 02

  Hey, I got a point, guys. That's sick.

• 1:09:38Speaker 04

  That doesn't matter.

• 1:09:39Speaker 02

  I think I'm at, like-

• 1:09:43Speaker 01

  Question number two, we've already hinted at it, but how many points does everyone have?

• 1:09:49Speaker 02

  Also, the other people, or is that gonna be after?

• 1:09:52Speaker 01

  Uh, just give me everything, just, just.

• 1:09:54Speaker 02

  But we need more time then.

• 1:09:55David Imel?

  Other people, did you say?

• 1:09:56Speaker 01

  There is four people that are not you guys that are listed in our trivia scores. And you need to tell me what their score is. Wow. I didn't drink enough coffee this morning, you can probably hear it in my voice.

• 1:10:17Speaker 01

  Let's see it.

• 1:10:19Speaker 02

  It wasn't, everyone else too? How did you guys write so fast? I was writing long before.

• 1:10:24Andrew Manganelli?

  I started writing the minute I got the first one wrong.

• 1:10:27Speaker 02

  Cheating? Probably.

• 1:10:28Speaker 01

  I don't think so.

• 1:10:29Speaker 02

  Whatever.

• 1:10:30Speaker 01

  David, I'll give you.

• 1:10:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you know, I mean, like, if you're ready to write it, you can keep writing it.

• 1:10:33Speaker 01

  David, I'll give you.

• 1:10:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Then just keep writing.

• 1:10:35Speaker 01

  Ten more seconds right now to finish writing.

• 1:10:36Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:10:38Speaker 01

  In the meantime.

• 1:10:39Speaker 02

  Eight.

• 1:10:41Speaker 01

  We're recording this podcast only like thirty-eight minutes earlier than we normally record the podcast. But man, it just feels like the more, it feels like we're mourninging harder.

• 1:10:50Andrew Manganelli?

  It feels really mourning. It will not, when we record Trivia Extravaganza, directly after this.

• 1:10:56Speaker 02

  I'm getting excited for that.

• 1:10:57Speaker 01

  I'm ready. All right, Marquez, I'm gonna have you read everything first.

• 1:11:02Speaker 02

  Okay, so, Marquez, twenty-one.

• 1:11:06Speaker 02

  Okay, this is great. David, twenty-five. Andrew, twenty-six.

• 1:11:10Andrew Manganelli?

  You thought that I was.

• 1:11:11Speaker 02

  Apple, one. Ellis, one.

• 1:11:16Andrew Manganelli?

  What?

• 1:11:16Speaker 02

  And then another one has one.

• 1:11:18Speaker 01

  Who?

• 1:11:19Speaker 02

  I don't know. And then someone else also has one.

• 1:11:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Other.

• 1:11:23Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:11:23Speaker 01

  Two people do have one, but I, you did not say who, so I cannot give you those points.

• 1:11:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I go next?

• 1:11:28Speaker 01

  Uh, Marquez, yes, you can. Also, Marquez, it's hilarious, almost every single guess you are off by one.

• 1:11:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, that makes me feel so good.

• 1:11:36Speaker 01

  All right, Andrew, let's see.

• 1:11:37Speaker 02

  I have Marquez, twenty-four.

• 1:11:39Speaker 01

  That is correct, as of his last point.

• 1:11:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Correct, I was David at 24.

• 1:11:45Speaker 01

  That is also correct.

• 1:11:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Andrew at 27.

• 1:11:48Speaker 01

  Oh my goodness.

• 1:11:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Beth at 1. Google at negative 1.

• 1:11:54Speaker 01

  Google is at negative 3.

• 1:11:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, well, he's written it already.

• 1:11:58David Imel?

  Andrew's gonna sweep us.

• 1:11:59Andrew Manganelli?

  I have Becca at 1.

• 1:12:02Speaker 01

  We did not do trivia with Becca.

• 1:12:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, we didn't do trivia with Becca.

• 1:12:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Shoot. And I have Adam as 1. Okay. I was on a roll there for a minute.

• 1:12:10Speaker 01

  You missed 1.

• 1:12:12Andrew Manganelli?

  I missed.

• 1:12:13Speaker 01

  There's one person who's on this list that you did not name.

• 1:12:16David Imel?

  Is it like?

• 1:12:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, was Adam on the list?

• 1:12:18Speaker 01

  It's not, it's not Adam. Adam and Becca are not on the trivia board.

• 1:12:21Andrew Manganelli?

  But you said there's 4 others, so I had to have missed 2.

• 1:12:23Speaker 01

  Ellis, Google, Mystery, Mystery. You did say Ellis.

• 1:12:27Andrew Manganelli?

  I did not say Ellis.

• 1:12:28David Imel?

  You didn't? I thought you did.

• 1:12:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, you did.

• 1:12:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Marquez said Ellis.

• 1:12:31Speaker 01

  Oh, what's the difference?

• 1:12:35David Imel?

  Alright, what'd you say?

• 1:12:35Speaker 01

  David.

• 1:12:36David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:12:36Speaker 01

  Let's see it.

• 1:12:37David Imel?

  I put David 22.

• 1:12:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, turn around. I don't believe you.

• 1:12:40David Imel?

  Sorry.

• 1:12:41Andrew Manganelli?

  What?

• 1:12:42David Imel?

  It's wrong.

• 1:12:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, okay.

• 1:12:43David Imel?

  Wow. Doesn't have any faith in me. David 22, Marques 23, Andrew 27. Okay. Google negative 1. Ellis 1. And I put girl, because I couldn't remember Beth's name.

• 1:13:00Andrew Manganelli?

  That didn't, can't get that. If I don't get it for others.

• 1:13:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Look, I got you, Beth. I don't think Beth ever responded to that, so I don't even know if she was in.

• 1:13:11David Imel?

  I got Andrew's point at least.

• 1:13:12Speaker 01

  You did. So David gets 1 point, Andrew gets 4 points. Ellis, we have listed on the board as carry the 1. I don't remember why we made that joke, but I guess I'm carrying the 1 this time.

• 1:13:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Right, because you're just at 1.

• 1:13:22David Imel?

  Wait, that's 1.

• 1:13:24Speaker 01

  Hmm, it's not.

• 1:13:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, wait, what? I think you should give Marquez that.

• 1:13:27David Imel?

  What?

• 1:13:27Speaker 01

  Well, if I have to give it to Marquez, I have to give it to David 2.

• 1:13:30David Imel?

  You're saying girl? No.

• 1:13:31Speaker 01

  No, I'm saying 1.

• 1:13:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 1:13:33Speaker 01

  I think carry the 1 is different than 1.

• 1:13:35David Imel?

  That's bullshit. Nobody, no. Nobody is going to put that. It was a joke. You're carrying the 1 because you've got 1.

• 1:13:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, wait, here.

• 1:13:44Speaker 04

  Yes, I agree.

• 1:13:46Andrew Manganelli?

  I'll throw it out there. I think if somebody wrote Carrie the one and they both put one, then they should be wrong, but since no one put Carrie the one and they put one, I think they should be right.

• 1:13:55Speaker 02

  Carrie the one was the joke that was on top of the one being the score.

• 1:13:59Speaker 04

  I think we make the rules. When you guys do trivia, then you can decide.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. Google was minus three because of that time that they wrote that article on their own blog where they got three things wrong about Google. Hilarious.

• 1:14:14Speaker 02

  I forgot.

• 1:14:14Speaker 01

  And apparently now we know they do that because they don't keep any internal company records. So how would they remember?

• 1:14:20Speaker 02

  Delete it all.

• 1:14:21Speaker 01

  And then the one you guys did not get was David Pierce scored one trivia point.

• 1:14:26Andrew Manganelli?

  I knew we had a guest that did it.

• 1:14:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:29Andrew Manganelli?

  For some reason I thought it was Becca. Okay, cool.

• 1:14:32Speaker 02

  See, my handwriting made it look like I wrote other, but I actually wrote David Pierce.

• 1:14:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, other David. That's what he put.

• 1:14:39Speaker 02

  Exactly. That's what I meant to say.

• 1:14:40Speaker 04

  That's fair.

• 1:14:41Speaker 02

  Well, you know, update on the score.

• 1:14:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, all, yeah, maybe one last score update, the final score update.

• 1:14:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Final score update before heading into trivia extravaganza. Marquez with 24.

• 1:14:52Speaker 02

  Cause I got you.

• 1:14:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Andrew with 31.

• 1:14:56Speaker 02

  Doesn't matter.

• 1:14:57Andrew Manganelli?

  David with 25.

• 1:14:59Speaker 02

  Doesn't matter. Yeah. And all of those will soon mean nothing because the next episode

• 1:15:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:15:07Speaker 02

  is the trivia extravaganza season finale. I don't know, this is our third or fourth one.

• 1:15:12Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it's like six.

• 1:15:14Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:15:14Speaker 04

  I think it's like fifth.

• 1:15:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, either way, we've, yeah, that's the next trivia question.

• 1:15:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Did you know the first trivia extravaganza, David was a host?

• 1:15:20Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:15:21Andrew Manganelli?

  I was looking back.

• 1:15:22Speaker 04

  And we have the old table.

• 1:15:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was a fun time.

• 1:15:24Speaker 01

  Wait, before, before you sign off, I just want to tell one funny story to get everyone hyped for trivia extravaganza, which is that Marquez is a great boss. He gives his employees lots of creative freedom to do their best work. But the only creative disagreement that Marquez and I have ever gotten into in my three years of working here. Do you remember this, Marquez? It was whether to call it trivia extravaganza or trivia bonanza.

• 1:15:48Speaker 01

  This conversation lasted like two weeks, if I remember correctly.

• 1:15:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Really?

• 1:15:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, can I tell one other funny story about Trivia Extravaganza? So we have like a work shared devices login for Apple ID. So there's like 20 different like random devices across the studio in it. So they were doing a test run of Trivia Extravaganza last, yesterday with three different members of the team. I'm in the robot room, doing a robot room with Brandon and just in the bottom corner, this Safari like icon pops up with a little iPad and it just says Safari iPad. I'm like, what is this? I've seen it pop up a couple of times today and I click it and up pops a browser window of Google Drive and just Trivia Extravaganza doc loads in and I'm like, no!

• 1:16:36Andrew Manganelli?

  I quit out and I run over and as that's happening, Adam and Ellis are screaming and running out of the thing. And we're both like, did you just see?

• 1:16:45Speaker 02

  Wait, did you see?

• 1:16:46Andrew Manganelli?

  I did not. All I saw was the title.

• 1:16:48Speaker 02

  He claims to not have read anything. He claims to have read Trivia Extravaganza and only Trivia Extravaganza.

• 1:16:53Speaker 01

  We caught him instantly because we were running the show and Adam just goes, whoa, whoa, whoa, why is Andrew in this doc? It's because we have not shared the doc with him. And so we instantly get up, abandon the test contestants and run into the studio, only to see Andrew running towards us like, it's not what it looks like! It's not what it looks like!

• 1:17:09David Imel?

  Right, and if a bank accidentally deposited a million dollars into my account, I'd totally go tell them that they shouldn't have done that.

• 1:17:17Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, you should.

• 1:17:18Speaker 01

  You should.

• 1:17:19David Imel?

  Right.

• 1:17:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:17:20David Imel?

  Right.

• 1:17:21Andrew Manganelli?

  They totally should, exactly.

• 1:17:22Speaker 01

  That's what I meant.

• 1:17:23Speaker 02

  Well, we take this very, we take this very seriously, as you can tell. And obviously, we have a lot of points at stake. Ideally, like enough for me to get back into this thing. But yeah, stay tuned. That will be the, the next episode and it will be a banger, as it always is. Until next time, thanks for watching, thanks for listening, and catch you in the next one. Peace.

• 1:18:05Speaker 01

  This won't work.

• 1:18:06Andrew Manganelli?

  All right, let's go.

• 1:18:06Speaker 02

  Teams is amazing. Why don't you believe in Teams?

• 1:18:08Speaker 01

  I'm hopping in the...

• 1:18:10Andrew Manganelli?

  They have a video.

• 1:18:11Speaker 02

  Cut his mic.

• 1:18:12Speaker 01

  I don't care.

• 1:18:13Speaker 05

  Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change. Your receipt did. The sausage McMuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5. Only at McDonald's for a limited time.

• 1:18:25Speaker 06

  Pricing participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing.