Is The "PROLED" Macbook Any Good?

On this week's spooky episode Marques, Andrew, and David talk about the death of Arc Browser, Apple's new OLED Macbook Pro with a silly name, and the new craze of rooting your TVs. Links: Death of Arc: Twitter MKBHD: Macbook PROLED This episode brought to you by: Charles Schwab: https://www.schwab.com/oninvesting Framer: https://www.framer.com/wave Jira: https://www.jira.com Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/waveform Pipedrive: https://www.pipedrive.com/waveform Gusto: https://www.gusto.com/wave Follow us on socials: Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin Waveform Threads: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Waveform Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/waveformpodcast/?hl=en Waveform TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Intro/Outro music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Andrew Manganelli?

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, host Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's Chief Investment Strategist, and Colin Martin, Head of Fixed Income Research and Strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring you fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting? And what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episodes and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  I'm a voice agent powered by Deepgram. I don't just understand words, I understand context. Like when you're at trivia night and say, "I'm on fire," it means you got the last three questions right. But when you're camping and say, "I'm on fire," it means a spark just landed on your highly flammable synthetic rain pants. Deepgram understands words in context across STT, TTS, and voice agents. That means better conversations at production scale. Learn more at deepgram.com/contextiseverything. This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, host Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's Chief Investment Strategist, and Colin Martin,

• 1:16Speaker 01

  Head of Fixed Income Research and Strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring you fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting? And what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episode and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Uh, iPad mini. Oh my God. $700. Oh my God.

• 1:55Speaker 02

  It's $700.

• 1:56Andrew Manganelli?

  For the base.

• 1:59Andrew Manganelli?

  The cheapest nano texture one you can get is $900.

• 2:10Speaker 03

  Yo, what is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marquez.

• 2:15Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm Andrew.

• 2:16David Imel?

  I'm David.

• 2:18Speaker 03

  And at the pod, producer Dable, we've got Mariah and Ellis. We also all maybe have like some explaining to do already, or like alternate names we'd like to give, because if you're a video viewer, you're like, wait, that doesn't look like who you said it was.

• 2:32Andrew Manganelli?

  I think as an audio viewer, they also heard David as a ghost essentially, so he's really hitting home for the audio. Not a ghost, sorry.

• 2:40Speaker 02

  Wait, wait, sorry, David, do the spooky ghost thing again.

• 2:42David Imel?

  And I'm David.

• 2:45Speaker 03

  That's good. But wait, what are you, though?

• 2:48David Imel?

  Okay, you guys want to guess?

• 2:49Speaker 03

  I'm, I'm looking at your costume.

• 2:51Speaker 02

  Describe it, you're, for the audio listener.

• 2:53David Imel?

  It's a bit lower effort than usually, than I usually do.

• 2:56Andrew Manganelli?

  I think face paint automatically is lots of effort.

• 2:59David Imel?

  Okay.

• 2:59Andrew Manganelli?

  So I'm giving you a lot of credit.

• 3:00David Imel?

  Cool. Okay, so as you know, usually I'm a pun that combines two tech-related things to make a tech pun.

• 3:07Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 3:08David Imel?

  Okay, so for audio listeners, I have white face paint on, I have a kind of a skeleton mouth thing. I don't even know what to call it, like the little black stripes that make a little skeleton mouth. Then I'm wearing a black shirt with a red dot, a red

• 3:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Square.

• 3:27David Imel?

  Square in the center.

• 3:28Speaker 03

  Are you a nothing phone?

• 3:29David Imel?

  No.

• 3:31Speaker 03

  That'd be a pretty good one, though.

• 3:32David Imel?

  Are you a, you're dead.

• 3:35Speaker 03

  It's a pun.

• 3:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, so here's my, what I started thinking of later. First of all, I don't think we mentioned it's Halloween tomorrow when this comes out, which is why we're all dressed up. It's not just for fun. Does everywhere celebrate Halloween? No. Because this might be really confusing, too. Yeah. Okay. Are you a dead pixel?

• 3:52David Imel?

  Yes.

• 3:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes, okay. I just think of it. All right.

• 3:56David Imel?

  Thank you, guys.

• 3:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 3:57David Imel?

  That's good. Hey, that's a good job. Good job.

• 4:00Speaker 03

  Well played.

• 4:01Andrew Manganelli?

  I think we were thinking too Joker at first, but it's not red mouth.

• 4:04Speaker 03

  I just, I got the dead part. I didn't, I got it now. That's good.

• 4:08David Imel?

  Dead pixel.

• 4:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Who wants to go next?

• 4:11David Imel?

  It's pretty last minute.

• 4:12Speaker 03

  I'm, um, so here we go. I, I asked Gemini for like, a couple minutes for like, good costume ideas by listing out things that I had around me, because I missed a Slack message that said to get costumes.

• 4:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Because I sent it to him when he was in LA at a briefing yesterday.

• 4:29Speaker 03

  I was quite busy shooting the MacBook Pro review, or impressions video. But what I did put together here for this podcast was, I have a Google Glow Bar on me, and I'm also very sick and near death, if you couldn't tell. So I am yet another Google product, very close to its grave. It's very scary.

• 4:46Andrew Manganelli?

  What does, what does the Glow Bar do?

• 4:48Speaker 03

  Nothing.

• 4:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 4:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:50Andrew Manganelli?

  So both of you are nothing, probably?

• 4:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay. I'll go next. Oh, for audio listeners, I have glasses and a dad hat, and a cool watch, and a sweet unbuttoned shirt, and a teenage engineering device.

• 5:06David Imel?

  I mean, I gave it away.

• 5:08David Imel?

  I thought you were Elizabeth Holmes when I first saw you.

• 5:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, wait, and I also have my keys on a cool little

• 5:15Speaker 03

  And a carabiner? That's, I'm seeing it.

• 5:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 5:18Speaker 03

  I'm seeing it. Welcome back, Adam.

• 5:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, thank you. Japan was great. It's nice to be back. I will be, I'm also editing this week's episode, so I'm really

• 5:26Speaker 03

  You have to keep it on the whole time.

• 5:27Andrew Manganelli?

  What's it called when actors are, method acting?

• 5:30Speaker 03

  Method acting.

• 5:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, method acting, for sure.

• 5:31Speaker 05

  You actually scared me when you walked out of the bathroom, because I was like,

• 5:35Andrew Manganelli?

  I, I was doing something this morning, but I should have sat at Adam's desk while everyone came in, but we're also recording earlier, just to like, screw with people.

• 5:42Speaker 03

  That would have been funny. Yeah. Okay, Mariah?

• 5:46Speaker 05

  All right, audio listeners. And picture this. I'm wearing a red hat, I'm wearing a red tunic with red gloves, a large black belt, and some of you may die, but that's a risk I'm willing to take. I am no other than Lord Farquaad. Thank you.

• 6:07Speaker 03

  The one and only.

• 6:08Andrew Manganelli?

  It's a fantastic Farquaad.

• 6:10Speaker 03

  It is great.

• 6:12Speaker 02

  I thought we were all going as Shrek characters.

• 6:14David Imel?

  I did not get that memo.

• 6:15Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm still trying to figure out where this came from.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  I'm realizing it was a, it was a breakdown in communication. Apparently, it was a different video that we're all dressing as Shrek characters for, a video that none of you guys are in.

• 6:27Speaker 03

  What?

• 6:28Speaker 05

  Well, I wanted to support Rich at the marathon, but I wanted to get my bang, my buck out of this costume, so. Olivia was going as Puss in Boots, and so I wanted to like, add on to the theme.

• 6:37Speaker 03

  So there's a theme.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  I am the gingerbread man in my homemade.

• 6:42Speaker 03

  You don't sound, you don't sound like the gingerbread man. I'm the gingerbread man. I haven't seen this movie in a while. Is this how he sounds? That's exactly how he sounds.

• 6:54Andrew Manganelli?

  That was, that's pretty good. That is good.

• 6:57David Imel?

  Do you know the muffin man?

• 6:59Speaker 03

  The muffin man?

• 7:00David Imel?

  The muffin man!

• 7:02Speaker 03

  Are these all from the original Shrek? The first, because there's like several Shrek movies?

• 7:06David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah, it's from the first one.

• 7:07Speaker 03

  That was good.

• 7:08David Imel?

  The first and second one.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  Was that a Shrek pun?

• 7:10Speaker 03

  No, I mean, like, oh, these are all from Shrek 1. She's married to the muffin. I believe sign. I also, these are all from Shrek 1.

• 7:18David Imel?

  Yeah, but Shrek 2 is notably one of the few films that is considered even better than the first.

• 7:22Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 7:23David Imel?

  Or at least more iconic.

• 7:25Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 7:25David Imel?

  Okay, maybe a hot take, but I don't, I don't know.

• 7:28Speaker 03

  Well, you know, we do have a lot to talk about today, believe it or not. There is some tech, some tech in the news. The internet is imploding, but also the MacBook Pros came out, or got announced, so that was cool. Some new ones. iPhone Duo screen issues, Arc Browser is dead, and we're going to wrap it up with Ellis explaining how people are fixing their TVs through vibe coding, actually.

• 7:49David Imel?

  Yeah, fixing and turning them into weeds.

• 7:51Speaker 02

  That actually, actually might be a stretch, but we'll

• 7:54David Imel?

  Yeah, I don't know about fixing, I don't know about fixing, but we'll see.

• 7:58Speaker 03

  But first, did they even test this?

• 8:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes, actually, mine continues in my method acting, because I've only realized this recently.

• 8:07David Imel?

  While thinking about Adam?

• 8:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Uh, while being Adam, while he's gone, because I've been publishing all the Waveform and Waveform clip things. But for whatever reason, if you know what the screen looks like when you post a YouTube video, it's like your description, your title, on the right is the preview window, and then under that is all the dropdowns to publish, right?

• 8:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:26Andrew Manganelli?

  For whatever reason, on Firefox, those buttons only appear 50% of the time. I showed this to you the other day, right?

• 8:33David Imel?

  Only on Firefox.

• 8:34Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm trying to, I mean, maybe on other things, but I use Firefox, so I'm assuming it's only on Firefox, because not other people are having an issue.

• 8:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 8:41Andrew Manganelli?

  So sometimes in order to publish, I have to keep refreshing or to schedule it, and there have been a couple, uh, I've almost deleted the description a couple times doing that, because I forgot to save, and

• 8:52Speaker 03

  Is that why chapters haven't been working?

• 8:54David Imel?

  No, that's just

• 8:56Andrew Manganelli?

  I have a theory, everyone, I think I may have fixed our chapter problem.

• 9:00Speaker 03

  How?

• 9:00David Imel?

  Yo, that's, that's a big claim.

• 9:02Speaker 03

  This is a big deal. This is lore.

• 9:04Andrew Manganelli?

  The original chapter number has to be one zero followed by a colon, not two zeros followed by a colon.

• 9:12David Imel?

  Really? But it always works temporarily.

• 9:15Andrew Manganelli?

  I know, and it always does work eventually with double zeros, when I like, go into the description, when it stops working, change nothing and re-save it, it fixes it.

• 9:24David Imel?

  So you're saying the zero, colon, zero, zero?

• 9:26Andrew Manganelli?

  The zero, zero, colon, zero, zero should be zero, colon, zero, zero.

• 9:30David Imel?

  Oh, interesting. Yeah, I've never done that for, yeah, because in main channel videos, the chapters haven't broken, and I've also never done zero, zero, colon, zero, zero.

• 9:38Andrew Manganelli?

  I think that's what our template has been, and I've tried it the other day, and I think the last two episodes' chapters haven't broken. It's really hard to tell, but I haven't seen any comments about it, so.

• 9:47David Imel?

  This is why it should be UI, instead of people having to type the exact right formula.

• 9:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:52David Imel?

  YouTube.

• 9:53Andrew Manganelli?

  It's just a hypothesis. I'll do more testing. Commenters help us out.

• 9:57David Imel?

  That is good to know, though. If chapters work this week, you'll know why. That's sick. RIP Arc Browser, another product on its deathbed. You know, I'm having flashbacks. I'm having, I'm having flashbacks, because I do remember sitting here.

• 10:13Speaker 03

  Not that long ago, a couple of months ago, and being reassured very comforting.

• 10:19Andrew Manganelli?

  It was a year ago.

• 10:20Speaker 03

  Last year, okay. Very, I had like a little, little comfortable blanket where they were like, we're not gonna get rid of Arc. We're not gonna abandon Arc. It's not, it's not being sunset.

• 10:28Speaker 06

  So, but that is very different than like, this product is being sunsetted or going anywhere, anything like that. I have done a horrible job in many ways. I think communicating about what the heck is going on at the browser company, so I will own that. But Arc's not going anywhere. Arc is not going anywhere. Arc is not going anywhere.

• 10:44David Imel?

  I think a lot of those Arc users love the browser company, so they were frustrated that Arc was being sunset and.

• 10:50Speaker 06

  Not being sunsetted.

• 10:51David Imel?

  Not being sunsetted.

• 10:52Speaker 06

  Not being sunsetted.

• 10:53David Imel?

  Being maintained.

• 10:54Speaker 06

  Journalism.

• 10:55Speaker 03

  Uh, but then they did. They sunset it. So, yeah, yeah.

• 10:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Uh, one year ago, I was dressed as a skeleton for the Halloween costume and said I was Arc browser. And one year later, of, on the week, we got the death of it.

• 11:08David Imel?

  To commemorate this, every browser now is just Arc. That's what's kinda crazy.

• 11:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, the, there is like a path that everyone goes down now, which is, so here's the path. You start off, you're using like Chrome or something, and then you see Arc and you're like, that's cool. And a year ago, you switched to Arc and you were like, this is so awesome. I have all these spaces and all these cool features. And then as Arc starts to slowly fall apart, you go, wait a minute, this doesn't have a future. Let me jump to something that's as good as Arc. And then you discover Zen Browser. And Zen Browser is eighty-eight and a half percent of Arc, but you constantly notice the last eleven and a half percent. Wow, quick math. Um, and so you're like frustrated a little bit by that all the time. And then you switch back to Arc. You're like, maybe I can keep using it. This is kinda still getting updates. And then you're like, no, it's not. And then you switch back to Zen. And you go, maybe I can use that other thing that they made called Dia.

• 11:57Speaker 03

  And then Dia is like also kind of Arc, but just a little bit more prone to start interrupting you with chats. Unless you turn that default off, and then it's like seventy-five percent of Arc. And then you're like, maybe this is okay, but there's no mobile version. And then you go, wait a minute, there's still a mobile version? And then you go, wait a minute, they're killing this whole thing. Never mind. RIP Arc.

• 12:13David Imel?

  Arc Mobile was, I think it was called Arc Search, was like the best iPhone browser.

• 12:17Speaker 03

  It's pretty great.

• 12:18David Imel?

  And now they're killing the whole project. And it's just, it's sad.

• 12:20Speaker 03

  I uninstalled it this week.

• 12:21Andrew Manganelli?

  You un, fully uninstalled. You just like two weeks ago kinda manifested this by saying something like, you, you mentioned Arc.

• 12:28Speaker 03

  I said it in the Duo review.

• 12:30Andrew Manganelli?

  It was in the Duo review. Yeah.

• 12:31Speaker 03

  Cause in the Duo review, I was like, I'm gonna wait for all my favorite apps to get updated for Duo support, so I can finally have fun using this phone. And then, yeah, I'm also gonna have to get rid of Arc because they're never gonna update it.

• 12:42David Imel?

  Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy though, cause it was just like a, a random, small, at the time, company that just made a browser that now has influenced every other browser that comes out. Like, there's a browser renaissance happening right now, probably because of Vibe coding. But a lot of people are making browsers that all just look exactly like Arc looked. Um, they're not as feature-rich and they are not as polished and things like that. But, you know, there's like, there's Zen, as you mentioned, which is basically just an Arc clone. There's like Helium, which is Chromium-based, but it's just like Arc. Um, Dia, like at the beginning, they just wanted sort of Dia to be its own thing. But then people got so mad that they eventually have just been literally porting. They said Arc's, uh, greatest hits, they have been porting it to Dia.

• 13:26David Imel?

  It still doesn't have everything, which is annoying.

• 13:28Speaker 03

  Like a mobile version?

• 13:29David Imel?

  Like a mobile version. I really want Little, Little Arc, which was cool. I want Peak, which is where you could just peek into tabs. Like, there were a lot of amazing features. Dia's getting there. That's what I'm using right now. Um, but there's a lot of good browsers coming out right now, uh, including like Helium and stuff.

• 13:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Arc built it like in the public. It was like the, the, the feedback fan, it reminded me of like old OnePlus.

• 13:51David Imel?

  Old OnePlus.

• 13:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, like, we love you. Like, we love you so much. And then they're just like, on their [BLEEP] fans. And then just like, they just don't care anymore and.

• 14:01David Imel?

  Well, they got acquired by Atlassian.

• 14:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes, and they, they eventually though, like, like, but what we said, he came onto our podcast and three different times, I have the sound clips. They will definitely be in this episode, of him saying, Arc is not dying. Arc is not dying. We are not sunsetting it. We are not sunsetting it over and over again. Um, and then, yeah, we got last Thursday, the tweet that say, we've decided to sunset Arc December twenty-second, twenty twenty-six. I have to assume this got announced on a Thursday for a reason. They're just too clued in with Waveform. To know, let's get one week without Waveform. Um, the tweet has twenty, two point two thousand comments.

• 14:39David Imel?

  Holy crap.

• 14:40Andrew Manganelli?

  And three point five thousand quote tweets, or just retweets. Not a great look, uh, for them. It's, yeah, they're making their, they decided to go from cool browser with lots of feedback to AI, whatever. Um.

• 14:56Speaker 03

  This reminds me of two things. One is that really great nine-year-old Tech Alter video, which is why enthusiast brands will betray you. It's a good video. You should watch it.

• 15:06David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 15:06Speaker 03

  Uh, the other is that my inbox, ever since the Duo review, it's been this funny thing where like, I have these apps that I like, that I've been using for a long time, and I get shoutouts organically in videos because I've just have had them on my screen. And then since the Duo review, where I've been showing all these apps that aren't updated, my inbox has been full of really, really

• 15:27David Imel?

  dude.

• 15:27Speaker 03

  fast iOS developers who are like, I just made a Duo optimized version of that app that isn't updated yet that you like.

• 15:33David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 15:34Speaker 03

  A task app, a calendar app, a browser. There's this browser called Lens Browser now. That's like, we're better than Arc. You want this now, don't you?

• 15:41David Imel?

  It crashes constantly.

• 15:42Speaker 03

  Yeah. But I'm like, that's, that is a really interesting landscape right now where just fighting for Duo users is kind of an interesting battleground. Not that there's that many of them, but they are very like power user, heavy user type of people.

• 15:55David Imel?

  But it's also been very fun. I like the fact that there's all these third-party versions of things that we use every day that people are using just because they are faster at developing than the actual big companies are for Duo.

• 16:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:06David Imel?

  Like, I just, I just wanna shout out this app. Um, it's called Golden, I think, and not the, uh, you know, song by Hunter X.

• 16:13Speaker 03

  K-pop Demon Hunters?

• 16:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Not Hunter X.

• 16:16David Imel?

  But it like shows the Adam, the Adam, the, uh, album art.

• 16:23David Imel?

  It's a Streetlight Manifesto song, of course.

• 16:26Andrew Manganelli?

  What?

• 16:26David Imel?

  Yeah. It shows the album art on the front in ASCII, and you can make it like, there's different covers that you can use that are in different colors. And you can keep the, there's all this different like animations and stuff like that. You can have a clock. You can have all this stuff. You can have it just constantly on the front of your phone. Obviously, this is gonna drain a ton of battery. But it looks super cool. And then when you open it, it's like, super Duo optimized and shows like lyrics and like, yeah, all this random stuff. Yeah, it's just like, I don't know. Uh, Michael Fisher said this in his Duo review, but the cool thing about the Duo is that it kinda feels like two thousand eight again, where.

• 17:02Speaker 03

  The App Store just showed up.

• 17:04David Imel?

  The App Store just showed up. And you're just like, let me see what cool apps there are.

• 17:07Speaker 03

  It's, there's so much random stuff.

• 17:10David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 17:10Speaker 03

  And I really like all of it. It's very fun playing with all of it. I think that's the best part about the Duo is just like trying new ideas again.

• 17:16David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 17:17Speaker 03

  Other than that, you know, um, it's kinda frustrating in some ways, but.

• 17:20David Imel?

  I agree. We can talk about it. I, um, well, yeah, okay, so my task app Tic Tic, in the like three days that it wasn't yet updated for Duo, I got emails from like four other task apps that were like, try these out. We're updated for Duo. And I was like, alright. And then I did.

• 17:36Speaker 03

  I mean, look, like.

• 17:37David Imel?

  Tic Tic updated finally.

• 17:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, my, my workout app, like, is never, probably never gonna update.

• 17:43David Imel?

  I said the same thing. Guess what I got in my inbox? A bunch of gym apps.

• 17:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:46David Imel?

  We're updated for Duo.

• 17:48Andrew Manganelli?

  I think I've been getting emails for both of you two. Um, please just send them to those two. I can't test any of these and I'm not gonna DM everyone all the time, every time I get an email about it.

• 17:58David Imel?

  Like, I've been using this since January. I don't wanna stop using it just cause it's not updated for Duo, but I mean, look at this.

• 18:04Speaker 03

  Also, my gym app, my trainer like loads the program into them. He's not changing what app he uses, so I'm not gonna be able to change the app I use.

• 18:11David Imel?

  Yeah, maybe, maybe we could try to use Waveform for good. Uh, Fitbod, please update your app for Duo just for me. And I will tell you, you did a good job next week, or the week after, whenever you do it.

• 18:23Speaker 03

  I've also officially switched back to the eighteen Pro today. So it's like about two and change weeks later, after I first started testing it.

• 18:31David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 18:31Speaker 03

  I'm finally, not fed up with it, but I'm finally like, I know which phone is better for me and my use. And I always end up back with the phones that I like the most. It's a OnePlus fifteen and an iPhone eighteen Pro. The cameras are better, the usage experience, Face ID, it's all back, it's warm and fuzzy where I was hoping.

• 18:48David Imel?

  The Duo is like the most toxic relationship I've ever had with a product. Cause I love so much about it and I hate so much about it.

• 18:56Speaker 03

  I will miss opening it up, flipping it to portrait mode and reading.

• 19:00David Imel?

  It's so great.

• 19:00Speaker 03

  I will really miss it.

• 19:02David Imel?

  It's so great. I, I feel extremely performative every time I do it, though.

• 19:06Speaker 03

  I just got back from LA for that MacBook Pro event, and I did see a couple Duos in the wild and.

• 19:12Andrew Manganelli?

  It was the MacBook Pro event. Is that the wild?

• 19:15Speaker 03

  I saw two in Brooklyn.

• 19:16Andrew Manganelli?

  It's like going to the zoo and being like.

• 19:17Speaker 03

  No, no, no. It was, it was LAX. It was LAX. There was like three people at LAX with Duos. The person on the plane next to me had a Duo.

• 19:24David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 19:25Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't, I don't think there were. Juddner was also on that flight, right? So what are the chances they were just going to?

• 19:30Speaker 03

  Very possible that they're going to Apple events, but it was, uh, that like performative, like feeling of like flipping it out. It was like when you, when you have a car that's like kinda new and you drive past someone with the same car and you're like, wave at them. It was like that. It was weird. Yeah, I don't know how to feel about that.

• 19:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, except everyone around you is like.

• 19:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, everyone else on the plane was like, look at these dweebs with their folding.

• 19:50David Imel?

  Yeah, this phone definitely feels like it, it's one of those things that takes a number of weeks to like fully understand and decide whether or not it's for you. Cause I, it's just, there's so much stuff where I'm just like, this is incredible. And there's so much stuff where it's like, oh my God, I miss the eighteen Pro so much.

• 20:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:06David Imel?

  You know?

• 20:06Speaker 03

  What do we make of the, uh, the like, they're calling it crack gate, but it's.

• 20:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Are we gating? Oh, okay.

• 20:12Speaker 03

  I don't know if it's a gate, but there have been enough reports of people's Duos breaking without them like doing it, like throwing sand in it, like Zach in his video, that people are actually like concerned about it. It kinda like made waves for a couple of days on Twitter, from what I saw.

• 20:28Speaker 03

  I don't know what to make of it yet. It doesn't, it's hard to get a sense of exactly how many this is happening to. It's kinda like when we saw the Samsung issues with batteries. I'm like, alright, how many phones are actually just having issues right out the box with nothing being done to them? Hard to say.

• 20:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 20:42Speaker 03

  But it's enough that people are talking about it.

• 20:43Andrew Manganelli?

  It's enough that Apple responded.

• 20:45Speaker 03

  Apple did.

• 20:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Which I think

• 20:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:47Andrew Manganelli?

  In that, like, that to me is the key of like, this isn't just three videos on Twitter that blew up. This is enough things where Apple has to make a comment. And I feel like Apple is the last people to make a comment about anything. I kind of wrote like a really quick TLDR of what's going on.

• 21:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:02Andrew Manganelli?

  I'll rip through it. So like you said, a bunch of, we're getting a bunch of tweets and videos and reports of people's screens having an issue where it's like, some of them are like a couple hours after I got it. Some of them are my first fold. Some of them are just like a couple of days. And the screen is breaking with very specifically this line going across the right side of the screen about two thirds of the way down or a third of the way up. And it all seems to stem from a couple like black holes, dots, kind of things in the screen right at the hinge. And then people were interested about that because it seems like all of these screens that are breaking are breaking in the, in the exact same spot. It's always weird when an OLED screen or just a screen in general breaks because the way it fragments after that

• 21:46Andrew Manganelli?

  is a little different, but all generally they're happening in about the same spot, horizontal line, right side of the screen.

• 21:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:54Andrew Manganelli?

  So I found two different hypotheses online. IFixit has their teardown, it's great. I mean, watching teardowns of folding phones is always fun, no matter what. So IFixit has a great one. Their guess is potentially, you know, every folding phone, the way it folds on the inside is when it's closed. It kind of opens up this space to turn the crease part into a teardrop. So that gives it more of a radius to not just crease right down the middle. And they think there's a potential where the flat part underneath the hinge is essentially touching and just creating this pinch point. He doesn't, that's just his guess based on how the structure looks. But then this YouTuber named Curious Haggai, which is a video, I don't know what language it's in, but it is dubbed now,

• 22:38Andrew Manganelli?

  where he also does a teardown durability test. And he finds this issue, and I'm going to be upfront here, the issue is after he essentially tries to break it. But he's trying to bend it the wrong way. And as he's going to close it, it gets stuck. And this is a report I've seen in a couple of different articles and online that a lot of times when the screen seems to be breaking, it's when they're having a hard time closing it. And when they get closed, they hear a crunch. And then when they open it, a crunch is the last thing you want to hear.

• 23:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:06Andrew Manganelli?

  The only phone that's okay with is the Royal Flex Pi 1 because it's crunched all the time.

• 23:11Speaker 03

  That one had crunches built in.

• 23:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. And when he did that crunch, the screen breaks in the exact same spot. And when he opens it, there's essentially two types of hinges. There's the ones with the gears that make them like rotate simultaneously together evenly. And then there's essentially like the support hinges, which are much thinner that are just extra support along it that don't have the gears, they just follow the gears.

• 23:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:35Andrew Manganelli?

  And in one of those support hinges, it essentially just snapped right off of the, like the, I guess the, the weak point of it is right at where it's connecting to the hinge. So this little tab that's going is snapping off of where the hinge is. And they think that's, and then when he pulls that off and pulls the flexible OLED off, there's a little impact right there.

• 24:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Presumably that's where it's breaking the screen and then causing that issue.

• 24:03Speaker 03

  That's like actually structurally kind of similar to the idea of like what was happening with Samsung, where the little corner of the battery was like a pinch point with the inside of the chassis. They're just like, these phones are so densely packed with things that just a little tiny extra like impact where you don't want it

• 24:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 24:20Speaker 03

  can ruin a whole part.

• 24:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. Which is why like dust resistance and why going to the sand is so bad. Because when you get those things in there and then the screen tries to fold flat, if now a grain of something is in there, it's going to cause a little bump in the screen and then potentially blow out that line or whatever it is.

• 24:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Which is why all of these things, despite being whatever IP rating, like do not bring these in the sand. There's still ways that this can get in there.

• 24:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know it's, it's rated IP 68, which is awesome. And I even think I saw, didn't Michael Fisher like dunk it in a pool? I think it's 68.

• 24:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Is it 6?

• 24:52Speaker 03

  Okay. Yeah, which is like that and the Pixel Fold are the only ones that have it as far as I can see. And like you can totally submerge it and I think it'll survive that okay. But the second you get like a, like a grain in there, then there's not enough space. It's going to pinch something, it's going to impact something.

• 25:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. So again, this is a video in where he's obviously putting it through a test that no normal person is going to put it through. But it seems like that plus all of the reports, plus Apple then having a comment, which Mark German tweeted out that.

• 25:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's super generic.

• 25:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, it's like the, Apple hasn't given representative's guidance yet. They did respond, we are aware of an issue impacting our, the inner display on a small number of iPhone Duo units. If users experience issues with their iPhone Duo display, they should contact Apple Care for a replacement. Impacts a very small number of units and most iPhone Duo units are not susceptible to the inner display issue. Impacted devices appear to have the defects rather quickly after usage, which affects a small number of units is the default response to every single issue ever. The Note 7 was a small number of units, the.

• 25:57Speaker 03

  It's funny because Apple sometimes, remember when they were like, sometimes they will actually say like, no, you guys are not supposed to be doing this. Like you're holding it wrong, like the antenna gate stuff or whatever. Like they'll, they'll say, you guys, you're just doing it wrong. But this, they're like, yeah, it's affected. There's a couple, there's a couple out there having issues. So that's all we know.

• 26:16Andrew Manganelli?

  I think if Apple is responding to this, it's, I don't think you should be worried buying the Duo. I don't think you should return it if you really want it. But I think there are enough of their out there that there is some sort of manufacturing issue with this.

• 26:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:30Andrew Manganelli?

  And hopefully if you make it through the first couple of weeks, you're in the clear, but.

• 26:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm sure they'll make the later batches better. Also, if it breaks in that way with that exact line through that exact part of the screen, I'm pretty sure they'll just replace it for you for free.

• 26:42Andrew Manganelli?

  I've seen already people tweeting saying like they got a replacement unit.

• 26:45Speaker 03

  Okay. Yeah, because if you, if you want to get the inner screen replaced, it costs almost as much as buying an entirely new.

• 26:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Does it really?

• 26:53Speaker 03

  Yeah. If you don't have Apple Care.

• 26:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 26:55Speaker 03

  But I'm sure if it comes with this issue, then it's like, they're just going to replace it.

• 26:59Andrew Manganelli?

  For sure. Did you also see like Zach and them peeling the nano texture off of?

• 27:03Speaker 03

  Seen some videos of that.

• 27:04Speaker 05

  It's horrible.

• 27:06Speaker 03

  It just reminds me so much of the first Galaxy Fold. They're really tied in flashbacks as well to that moment.

• 27:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 27:13Speaker 03

  My analogy that I didn't put in the review was it's like, it's, so you can literally just peel the matte layer off of the screen and then it's still usable. It's just a glossy screen and it doesn't have the oleophobic coating anymore. So it's just kind of like weirdly tacky and it's not meant to be used like that. But then you can just sort of throw it away and keep using the phone. And people are like, oh, so you can just take it off if you don't like the matte thing? I would say no, that's kind of like taking the bumper off of your car. Yes, technically it's removable. And yes, the car will still drive without it. But like it's there for a reason. It protects the things underneath it. And if it ever gets damaged, then yes, theoretically you can replace it. But it's not like really meant to be operated without it, if that makes sense.

• 27:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 27:59Speaker 03

  So yeah, they, they sort of designed it in a way that if you damage just the outside, they can replace just the outside with Apple Care. It's like 20 bucks, right? To just replace the outside matte layer?

• 28:09Andrew Manganelli?

  It sounds like the matte layer is essentially the purpose is kind of hide the crease and also

• 28:14Speaker 03

  Definitely hides the crease.

• 28:15Andrew Manganelli?

  being able to replace just that outside layer from Apple doing it for not that expensive. And then using that to keep it going.

• 28:23Speaker 03

  Yeah. So anyway, we'll keep an eye on it. I don't think it's some sort of disaster you have to like think about if you're buying a Duo. But just like, if it does happen to you, just take it back in.

• 28:32Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm just confused by how people are getting replacements so quickly when some people are getting like

• 28:38Speaker 03

  There's a secret stash.

• 28:39Andrew Manganelli?

  like two to three month wait windows for.

• 28:41Speaker 03

  That probably pushes somebody else's window back a little bit if you get a replacement.

• 28:46Speaker 05

  I mean, would they rather have one of those floating around that's broken? Or would they rather get it out, you know?

• 28:50Andrew Manganelli?

  No, no, I, I agree. It's just, yeah.

• 28:54Speaker 03

  A lot of people's windows have been being pushed forward though. And I wonder if that's either from people canceling their orders or if it's from like, they were really worried that they didn't have enough stock. So they were kind of protective about the windows they gave. And then they have enough stocks and now they're kind of trickling it out. I think there's a lot of logistics behind that, that we won't quite be able to understand. But there's definitely some sort of predictive like algorithm happening on their site where they see some amount of orders happening and they're like, all right, we, we're going to hit this point where we sell this many. So we should start pushing dates back and then sales volume changes. So the dates change, so. Yeah. Yeah. Under promise, ever deliver.

• 29:34Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it'll be a mix of both, just like it was the first time where it's like, I'm sure some people are canceling orders, not even because of what they're seeing, but just because of, it's a four month wait window or whatever. Like people probably don't want to wait that long, but also be cautious about it, like a little mix of them.

• 29:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, totally. So.

• 29:53Andrew Manganelli?

  We'll see. It sounds like you guys won't be using your.

• 29:56Speaker 03

  I mean, I'm still using it. I, again, I have an extremely toxic relationship with this.

• 30:00Andrew Manganelli?

  When, when do we think David stops using it?

• 30:04David Imel?

  I did find a hack with Google Fi that I don't think is supposed to work.

• 30:08Speaker 03

  Can you do handoff?

• 30:09Andrew Manganelli?

  That's kind.

• 30:10David Imel?

  It's kinda handoff.

• 30:11Speaker 03

  I really wanted to do handoff. I actually initially was like, I should just do handoff and use 18 Pro and then switch back to Duo for like a week at a time.

• 30:17David Imel?

  But you're on AT&T, right?

• 30:19Speaker 03

  But it's AT&T and handoff is T-Mobile only.

• 30:22David Imel?

  And Verizon now.

• 30:23Speaker 03

  And Verizon now?

• 30:23David Imel?

  But Verizon charges $10 a month and T-Mobile charges $5. See, this is what we lost.

• 30:29Speaker 03

  Just for the handoff feature?

• 30:30David Imel?

  Yes, just for the handoff. This is what we lost from switching to eSIM only, everybody. Remember when we had SIM cards and you could just pop, pop and that was the entire process?

• 30:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:40David Imel?

  Yeah, you can't do that anymore.

• 30:41Speaker 03

  Hate that.

• 30:42David Imel?

  I found a feature in Google Fi and like, part of me is worried about bringing this up because I don't want them to get rid of it. But at the same time.

• 30:49Speaker 03

  Oh no.

• 30:49David Imel?

  Uh, I think they forgot Google Fi exists, so it's probably okay. So, Google Fi has a feature, which is quite cool, where you can add up to six, um, data-only Sims. And that's been a feature for a very long time. So you can like add data to your tablet, you can add data to anything that can have an eSIM. You can just add data to it.

• 31:08Speaker 03

  Oh yeah.

• 31:09David Imel?

  Because Google Fi charges by the gigabyte anyway. Um, if you're not on a family plan that has like a certain amount of data. And so I added a data-only SIM to my Pro. But when I added the data-only SIM, it was like, well, what phone number do you want to use for like, you know, all your iMessage and your Apple services and even the phone? And it gave me the option between my main phone number and the extra data-only SIM phone number. And I just said my name, main phone number. Now I get my texts on both my phones. I get like calls on both my phones.

• 31:41Speaker 03

  You get phone calls on both?

• 31:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 31:42Speaker 03

  Not FaceTime calls.

• 31:43David Imel?

  Yeah, regular phone calls.

• 31:45Speaker 03

  And you get RCS messages on both? That would be crazy.

• 31:48David Imel?

  The main thing that's very confusing that I think probably has to do with like my Apple ID or something, is that 80% of the iMessages I get are on both phones, 20% are not. So it's not.

• 32:00Speaker 03

  And they're on just your main one?

• 32:02David Imel?

  They're just on the main Duo.

• 32:03Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 32:04David Imel?

  Yeah, so, you know, I'm carrying the 18 Pro with me as sort of a portable camera. It's really depressing.

• 32:13Speaker 03

  This is where I was recently.

• 32:15David Imel?

  It's a really good camera and I like, you know, if I'm just doing Instagram stories and stuff, the Duo just, I need a telephoto. This is maybe a hot take. We've had this so many, we've talked about this so many times, but like, I just don't care about the ultra-wide at all. I just want a telephoto.

• 32:30Andrew Manganelli?

  I want to say, you guys have been saying this a lot. Two or three years ago, I was very much the opposite and I'm on your team now.

• 32:36David Imel?

  Really?

• 32:37Andrew Manganelli?

  I, I would rather have a telephoto than a.

• 32:39David Imel?

  So if you could only have two cameras on your phone.

• 32:41Andrew Manganelli?

  It may have been because I have kids now. And I like to take pictures of them further away, but.

• 32:45David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 32:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:46David Imel?

  So you're, if you only pick two, you're, you're going primary and zoom.

• 32:49Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 32:50Speaker 05

  Dude, I say ditch the primary and keep the ultra-wide and the telephoto.

• 32:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Ultra-wide is the most fun.

• 32:56David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 32:56Andrew Manganelli?

  But like, yeah.

• 32:57David Imel?

  I don't really need it.

• 32:59Speaker 03

  It is the least high-quality, but most like vibes stylized fun camera.

• 33:04David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 33:04Speaker 03

  The ultra-wide.

• 33:05David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 33:05Speaker 03

  I mentioned probably like one or two episodes ago that people now like take selfies by like flipping the main around and taking an ultra-wide selfie.

• 33:12David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 33:13Speaker 03

  I thought that was interesting.

• 33:14David Imel?

  There's also a trend amongst the zoomers of like putting the ultra-wide like directly above your face and shooting straight down.

• 33:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Like Trainspotting Kid?

• 33:22David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 33:22Speaker 03

  Yeah. iPhone Air users can't do that. They can't participate.

• 33:25David Imel?

  Not yet.

• 33:25Speaker 03

  Not yet.

• 33:26David Imel?

  Next year theoretically.

• 33:27Speaker 03

  Even though I'm like, please just add that the telephoto is better.

• 33:30David Imel?

  Yeah, if Apple's only adding one camera to the next Air, they're adding an ultra-wide.

• 33:34Speaker 03

  I know.

• 33:35David Imel?

  It feels like what they would do.

• 33:35Speaker 03

  That's the rumor and I'm sad about it.

• 33:37David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 33:38Speaker 03

  So.

• 33:38David Imel?

  But there are phones, are there phones that just have a primary and a telephoto?

• 33:43Speaker 03

  I don't think so. It's always ultra-wide.

• 33:45David Imel?

  They always start with the ultra-wide.

• 33:46Speaker 03

  They, the user data almost definitely says that people use the ultra-wide all the time. Even though it's, it's generally the worst camera. It got a lot better this year and they did put the exact same ultra-wide sensor in the Duo that they have in the 18 Pro. So there's that. I just never use it. But I was like in Brooklyn, like taking photos of the beautiful skyline and like only being able to use the 2X, quote unquote, optical because it's like cropping into the 48 megapixel sensor. And then zooming to 10X digital zoom was just really painful.

• 34:17David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 34:18Andrew Manganelli?

  And I just see it way better when you're opened on the Duo.

• 34:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:21David Imel?

  You open up the screen, you're like, that looks terrible.

• 34:24Speaker 03

  You can definitely see the compression a lot better on the Duo.

• 34:27David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 34:27Speaker 03

  I will say for like looking at photos and stuff, the Duo is like really awesome. Anyway, we talked about that last week.

• 34:31David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 34:32Speaker 03

  We don't need to reiterate.

• 34:34David Imel?

  Cool. Well, we got like an entire week of Apple events.

• 34:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, one more thing.

• 34:39David Imel?

  Press releases.

• 34:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Marquez wanted to talk about.

• 34:40David Imel?

  But there is one more thing we gotta do before we get there.

• 34:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Sorry if I cut you off or saved you.

• 34:45David Imel?

  You actually saved me. There is one more thing we gotta do before the thing that we always gotta do before the break. And Marquez needs to talk about Motion VFX.

• 34:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Built into Final Cut.

• 34:55Speaker 03

  Oh, oh yeah, we should talk about that.

• 34:57David Imel?

  Technically, it was part of the press releases though.

• 34:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is part of Apple press release week, but we can, we can do this one up top.

• 35:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I've been, so Motion VFX has been sort of the primo, high-quality suite of plugins for not just Final Cut Pro, but like Motion, After Effects, et cetera. And I've been using them for many years. Then they got bought by Apple.

• 35:21David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 35:22Speaker 03

  And we speculated, probably assumed at some point they would build it into Final Cut Pro. And now, or at least I think coming in November, Final Cut Pro 12.4 or whatever, 12.5, whatever the next version is, it will be literally built into Final Cut Pro. And so I did get to see some demos of it. Essentially, it's just another panel on the left. You've got your like, your media panel, your titles, and then just the Motion VFX, MVFX, built into Final Cut Pro. You can download whichever one you want. They're all just sort of looped in and included for free.

• 35:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, all of them?

• 35:54Speaker 03

  Oh, literally all of them.

• 35:55David Imel?

  Including the MKBHD one?

• 35:56Speaker 03

  Including the MKBHD one. Now, if you are.

• 35:59David Imel?

  That Apple now distributes the MKBHD Motion VFX.

• 36:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was, so, so I had some questions about like how this works because as of right now, there are lots of people out there who have paid dozens, if not hundreds of dollars for various Motion VFX plugins over the years and continue to use them.

• 36:19Speaker 03

  I believe that everyone just gets them now if they sign up for a Final Cut Pro Creator, what is it called?

• 36:26David Imel?

  Creator Suite.

• 36:26Speaker 03

  Creator Suite, which is a subscription version.

• 36:28David Imel?

  Subscription.

• 36:29Speaker 03

  But you're now paying the Apple subscription.

• 36:31Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it's the Creator Studio.

• 36:33Speaker 03

  Creator Studio. I have not been able to find a confirmation of if this will show up in the one-time payment version of Final Cut Pro that we've all been using for the last decade or whatever it is. I don't think it will. It seems like they would say that if it was.

• 36:47David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 36:47Speaker 03

  But this is all in literature about the Creator, Creator Studio. So I assume you have to pay that subscription. It's 130 bucks a year. And you get every single plugin. Notably, if you've used Motion VFX, you know that each one you buy, you then download, which downloads all the assets for it. And then you restart Final Cut Pro and then you can use it. So basically what will happen is there's this browser of all the Motion VFX plugins and you just go through, search for one, find the one you want. There's a download button built into Final Cut Pro. It'll download it and install it on the spot and then you can use it. So it's pretty cool. Very, very useful set of plugins and I guess now anyone can use the MKBHD plugin who has the subscription.

• 37:27David Imel?

  I would definitely imagine that you need the subscription for it. Because Apple probably feels a lot of FOMO for making Final Cut a one-time payment system.

• 37:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, and they're trying to get people off of, into, they're trying to get people who already paid $400 to pay for the subscription.

• 37:43David Imel?

  Recurring revenue, baby. That's all a company wants.

• 37:45Andrew Manganelli?

  But that, you bring up an interesting point of people who spent hundreds of dollars on all the plugins, who had the one-time thing, they just bought all their things one time.

• 37:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 37:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Now are potentially.

• 37:56David Imel?

  But then they don't have to pay for the subscription.

• 37:58Andrew Manganelli?

  I guess they don't have to pay for the subscription, but then if any new Motion VFX stuff comes out, I'm assuming it is only going to be available in the subscription.

• 38:05David Imel?

  I don't know. I mean, can you still buy individual plugins right now?

• 38:08Speaker 03

  Right now, yes.

• 38:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Because there's also for Resolve and Premiere, right?

• 38:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Can you still do that?

• 38:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:15David Imel?

  Oh, interesting. So you can still get an installer.

• 38:18Andrew Manganelli?

  It's really weird the more you think about it, right? Like, why would Apple still want to sell it individually? They would rather you go.

• 38:26Speaker 03

  They'd much rather you get the subscription.

• 38:28Andrew Manganelli?

  You have to assume everything, Apple is going to do everything to make you do the subscription. So we are just going to start chipping away at all the things that make sense here and get it to where the only way this works is if you're subscribed.

• 38:40Speaker 05

  Maybe the Mac versions will only be available through the subscription and the rest of them could be for Premiere and, and she could be individual payments.

• 38:49Andrew Manganelli?

  I do think that's gonna.

• 38:51Speaker 05

  But either way, I think their program will still exist. I'm assuming.

• 38:54David Imel?

  Yeah, you always, when you acquire something, you always have to strike a balance between like not pissing people off immediately and still offering them what they had before.

• 39:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Immediately.

• 39:05David Imel?

  Immediately is the important thing. And then eventually.

• 39:09Speaker 03

  The most Apple thing would be to do what they did with Dark Sky.

• 39:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 39:12David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 39:12Speaker 03

  Because remember when Dark Sky was on Android and iOS? And then Apple bought them and the first thing they did was pull it down from the Play Store. And I was like, well, there goes one more thing from the other side of the ecosystem, but I.

• 39:25David Imel?

  There is one more thing. We're getting rid of your favorite weather app.

• 39:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:29Speaker 05

  Yeah. If I was a student, I feel like this would be a really great deal because you could buy it for like one month if you have a project you need it for. And then you don't have to pay the upfront cost. So I don't think it's inherently bad.

• 39:39David Imel?

  You own nothing and you'll be happy.

• 39:41Speaker 05

  And you'll love it.

• 39:42Speaker 03

  The student price is also like three bucks a month.

• 39:44Andrew Manganelli?

  It's crazy cheap.

• 39:45Speaker 03

  It's pretty, pretty great. Yeah.

• 39:47Andrew Manganelli?

  For students.

• 39:48Speaker 03

  For students.

• 39:49David Imel?

  Yeah, and the MacBook Neo student pricing went up by $150 this week.

• 39:53Speaker 03

  $6.50?

• 39:54Speaker 05

  It evens out.

• 39:55David Imel?

  It all evens out in the end.

• 39:57Speaker 02

  That's 50 months of Final Cut Pro.

• 40:00Andrew Manganelli?

  I feel like if this is the way they're going to force everyone to be subscription, they have to give you some sort of discount for being the $400, the one-time payment. Like, do you think there's any chance they make Motion VFX not available on the non-Creator Studio version of Final Cut? Like they make, they do an update so the third-party plugin doesn't work.

• 40:21David Imel?

  I highly doubt it. Something a lot of software does is like if you had bought it previously before and then they switched to a subscription, it'll still work. You just won't, you can't get any of the updates after that.

• 40:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 40:32David Imel?

  And like you have to buy the subscription in order to get those updates, which is what I could see Apple doing with Final Cut Pro.

• 40:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:38Andrew Manganelli?

  I've always assumed with the Creator Studio thing is they're going to make some sort of update to Final Cut that makes it enough of a version step.

• 40:47David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 40:48Andrew Manganelli?

  That the $400 version is now a different version than the new version.

• 40:51David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 40:51Andrew Manganelli?

  And the new version has no one-time payment.

• 40:54David Imel?

  Which they often do.

• 40:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:55Andrew Manganelli?

  But this Motion VFX stuff. Makes me think they're going a different way with getting to that final.

• 41:01David Imel?

  Yeah, I was wondering if they would just start.

• 41:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Make that final cut.

• 41:05David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 41:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Cut off all those freeloaders.

• 41:09David Imel?

  I was wondering if they would remove their money to buy a product. Yeah, sorry, Marquez. Would they remove support for Premiere and After Effects?

• 41:17Speaker 05

  No, there's no way. I feel like there's way more Adobe users than there are Final Cut users straight up.

• 41:24David Imel?

  It's highly possible that every new plugin they make in the future only is for Final Cut Pro. But I don't think that they're gonna get rid of the ones that already exist.

• 41:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, I was gonna say only available for purchase as Resolve Premiere and then not available for purchase for Final Cut because it's only available in the.

• 41:42David Imel?

  I mean, it's not like, like, they're not operating as a separate company that Apple just technically owns. Like, they're part of Apple now. So I imagine they're just not going to make Resolve and Premiere plugins anymore.

• 41:53Speaker 05

  I would be surprised if they did that.

• 41:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, what makes them more money?

• 41:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Like, not being available for Premiere Resolve and then hoping those people switch to Final Cut? Or?

• 42:03David Imel?

  Probably that.

• 42:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Keeping the stuff open for Premiere Resolve and just making money off of a product that's not even theirs, really, or that's for something that's not theirs anymore?

• 42:11David Imel?

  I think continuing to offer, like, one-time payments for either the old Final Cut or, like, the Adobe users. But that, like, makes you more likely, the more plugins you're going to get, the more likely you are to see the value in all of them included for free in the subscription. I bet if you total the value of all the plugins that are in the whole Motion VFX library, that's hundreds and hundreds of dollars. Yeah, yeah. So if you were, like, just getting started and you see that and you're like, oh, I just wanna download three, or maybe four, or maybe this fifth one, and then you're like, well, what if I just have access to all of them? Yeah. It's like, it's a good deal. Stock libraries often have, like, subscriptions where you can download, like, unlimited, or if you download, like, one photo or one video, it's like a one-time payment

• 42:56David Imel?

  of $4, but if you do the subscription, which is $5, you can download. Unlimited or whatever, yeah. Yeah.

• 43:01Speaker 02

  Do you guys remember when Final Cut had pretty much no DRM on it whatsoever?

• 43:06David Imel?

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  Like, like, Apple used to literally not care at all.

• 43:09David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  About this product. I am not advocating for crime, by the way. I know there's a button in the soundboard.

• 43:15David Imel?

  But you've done that before.

• 43:16Andrew Manganelli?

  I know there's a soundboard button.

• 43:16Speaker 02

  I know there's a soundboard button.

• 43:17David Imel?

  Commit crimes.

• 43:19Speaker 02

  But there was a period of time, I'm assuming they've patched this now that they've moved over to the Creative Studio. There was a period of time where there was so little DRM on Final Cut that you could walk into an Apple Store, go up to one of the Demomax, airdrop yourself the app package for Final Cut, and it would fully work. The only thing that you couldn't do is update it, but you could literally walk in and walk out with a stolen copy of Final Cut.

• 43:44Andrew Manganelli?

  I remember. I love to just think that there's, like, an Apple Store where, like, there's that guy coming in with his laptop. Oh, there he goes.

• 43:50David Imel?

  Every single time.

• 43:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Why does he come in, like, every two months?

• 43:52David Imel?

  They probably just think he's comparing laptops, you know? But just stands next to it for a while, like.

• 43:57Speaker 02

  Wait, one more time, just so Apple's lawyers hear me really clearly. Don't do this. Don't, don't commit crimes.

• 44:05David Imel?

  Don't do it.

• 44:06Speaker 05

  Commit crimes?

• 44:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Don't.

• 44:08Speaker 05

  Do it.

• 44:08David Imel?

  See this?

• 44:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. Just for reference, Motion VFX in their subscription thing claims that all of their elements is worth $12,000.

• 44:18David Imel?

  They still have a subscription?

• 44:19Andrew Manganelli?

  If you bought everything individually.

• 44:20Speaker 05

  $12,000?

• 44:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Motion VFX has a subscription.

• 44:22David Imel?

  They still have a subscription.

• 44:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Motion VFX?

• 44:25David Imel?

  Yeah. Even though.

• 44:26Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know how Motion VFX works.

• 44:28Speaker 05

  They got their AI stuff. I don't know what they're doing. They're doing all sorts of things.

• 44:31David Imel?

  Interesting. Okay, well, we're gonna talk about a lot more related to Apple, fortunately or unfortunately. I'm sorry to the audience that it's been Apple, like, Q2 or H2 this year, but it's just, it's their fault, not ours. But first, we gotta do the thing we always do every single week on cue. Starts with a T. It makes Marquez do the timeout symbol.

• 44:59David Imel?

  Oh.

• 45:00Speaker 02

  Spooky trivia.

• 45:01David Imel?

  Spooky trivia.

• 45:05Andrew Manganelli?

  We should have to do the whole next segment where you trail your voice off at the end of the video.

• 45:09David Imel?

  We should just constantly have the echo sound effect on.

• 45:12Speaker 02

  Can I rant for 30 seconds?

• 45:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Do it.

• 45:14Speaker 02

  Of course. Okay, okay. Just because we were talking about pricing models and subscriptions. So as you know, I edit the podcast in Avid Pro Tools, one of the best and worst programs ever made, son of a geniusly. I, the way I edit the podcast is I listen to it all the way through once, just taking notes of all the edits I'm going to make, and then I have a giant list of all the edits, and then I go back and I do them all, and then I render the thing. And there's a feature in Pro Tools that makes this possible called Go Back and Play. It's awesome. All it does is while the playhead's moving through the audio, you hit Go Back and Play. I have, like, a big physical button on my desk. It jumps the playhead back predetermined amount. I have mine set to, like, four seconds, and then it keeps going. So if I'm listening and I'm like, oh, was that, like, Marquez hitting his mic

• 45:56Speaker 02

  or something like that? I hit it, it goes back. Exactly. I can flag it. A little bit ago, my controller wasn't working. I was hitting the button, it wasn't jumping back. I was, like, going through, I was trying to reprogram the controller, I reset the macro button, I did everything. I restarted Yukon, wasn't working. And then I realized, there's two tiers of Pro Tools. There's Pro Tools Studio, which is, like, $300 a year, and then there's Pro Tools Ultimate, which is $600 a year, so twice as much. This feature is only available in Pro Tools Ultimate. This little tiny button that all it does is jump back four seconds or five seconds or however much you want it to jump, they want an additional $300.

• 46:37Andrew Manganelli?

  It's the only extra feature. Oh, the track limits, right?

• 46:40Speaker 02

  There's plenty, there's track limits, there's a few other features. But I was just so shocked, like, how greedy do you have to be to keep this tiny feature away?

• 46:50David Imel?

  Bro, that is classic price laddering. It is exactly what I'll be talking about later with the 60 Hz on the iPad Mini. Like, it's, it's one little thing, and there are lots of other great things in the better version, but they'll be like, what's one extremely important thing that we can move?

• 47:06Speaker 02

  And it's because they know this one feature saves me, like, two hours per edit, you know, like.

• 47:11Andrew Manganelli?

  If you want this to go full circle, I had one more thing in the Arc Browser segment, which was, I have to say something nice. They did recently put the Dia Daily Brief in the $10 subscription a month tier. Do you wanna guess what tier it was in before they swapped it?

• 47:29David Imel?

  It was in the $100 a month.

• 47:31Andrew Manganelli?

  $100 a month browser tier.

• 47:34David Imel?

  I've been getting those briefs.

• 47:35Speaker 02

  You could pay $100 a month for Dia?

• 47:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 47:37David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 47:38Andrew Manganelli?

  And it used to be the, I think it's mostly for more tokens, right? Like.

• 47:42David Imel?

  It's, yeah. I mean, they're tailoring this at business. It's like B2B.

• 47:46Andrew Manganelli?

  But Daily Brief was only in the $100 tier at first.

• 47:49David Imel?

  Yeah, which is like. I don't, I don't pay for Dia, so I don't know how I have.

• 47:53Andrew Manganelli?

  He probably sent you.

• 47:54David Imel?

  You're probably the early bird, like.

• 47:55Andrew Manganelli?

  An early, a while ago.

• 47:57David Imel?

  For having, oh. Yeah. But, yeah.

• 48:01Andrew Manganelli?

  $100 a month for a browser.

• 48:03David Imel?

  A month? Which is like the main feature that people really like about Dia is the Daily Brief.

• 48:07Andrew Manganelli?

  So good on them for putting it down to 10. But holy [bleep] you put it on the.

• 48:12David Imel?

  Yeah, they have a weird tension where they're like, we have to make B2B features, but also, wait, regular people use this because we made Arc for regular people.

• 48:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, because.

• 48:20David Imel?

  We sort of have to make Dia for regular people. I think if they had gotten bought by Atlassian before they started making Dia, they could just make Dia for enterprise and just not care about regular users. But because Arc was founded on the regular user, like, we're talking to you, we're having a community thing, they have to sort of tailor to both types of users, which is just, there's a lot of tension.

• 48:41Andrew Manganelli?

  It's because it's how they got popular.

• 48:42David Imel?

  Yeah, totally. It's like OnePlus.

• 48:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 48:44David Imel?

  Yeah. Yeah. One last thing, I'm sorry, we'll get to trivia. This is for Andrew. No Man's Sky released on iPhone and iOS.

• 48:52Andrew Manganelli?

  My favorite game ever. I've never said anything bad about No Man's Sky. It's not following me around for the rest of my life.

• 48:57Speaker 02

  It's been like four years since our No Man's Sky.

• 48:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Which was seven years after it released, dude.

• 49:02David Imel?

  Yeah, the, the No Man's Sky drama, there might be some people listening to the podcast that were not born when the No Man's Sky drama happened. No Man's Sky was, like, one of the most ambitiously, like, touted games of all time. They said it was gonna be, like, unlimitedly playable, and there's gonna be generated worlds and all this stuff, and it came out and it was, like, super lame. But instead of just, like, moving on, taking the cash and moving on, Sean Murray, who's like the guy who made No Man's Sky, has committed his entire life to making this game, like, endlessly updated and better and better and better. And, like, they literally released an insane update this week.

• 49:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Which is awesome.

• 49:40David Imel?

  They're still going.

• 49:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Good for him. My initial time I brought up No Man's Sky was more of a shot at Apple, trying to be like, we're totally, you know, we're on the same level as everyone else with gaming. Here's a seven-year-old game to prove that. I had nothing against No Man's Sky. It was just that it was old, and it didn't feel like it was proving the point.

• 49:59David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 50:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Good for, good for No Man's Sky to keep updating. That is awesome. I never got into it, but I'm sure it's an awesome game.

• 50:06Speaker 02

  We've come so far since then, like, because I remember that was sort of the joke we were making is like, oh, No Man's Sky, like, they, they touted it so much, and then it came out and they didn't deliver. But it, like, it came out, you know, like, like, the founders of No Man's Sky didn't get on a stage and make their stupid game do a kickflip and be like, see you in eight more years, [bleep].

• 50:26David Imel?

  Was GTA, was GTA, how long is it, is it longer than GTA? It's been 13 and a half years, and I know that because the last Twilight Manifesto album came out the same year as GTA.

• 50:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Not since they announced, though. It's been like a year and a half since the initial release date, right?

• 50:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 50:41Andrew Manganelli?

  It got pushed like a few months, then got pushed a full year.

• 50:43David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 50:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Now supposedly it's coming out next month, I think?

• 50:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:47David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 50:47Speaker 02

  We gotta do spooky trivia.

• 50:48David Imel?

  Okay.

• 50:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Do it.

• 50:49Speaker 02

  All right, one more time.

• 50:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Whoa.

• 50:54Speaker 02

  Right, would you like to read?

• 50:55Andrew Manganelli?

  The crow.

• 50:57Speaker 02

  I can also read them both.

• 50:58David Imel?

  Ca-ca.

• 50:59Speaker 02

  Question of our own, brought to you by Mariah Zank.

• 51:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Lord Farquharz.

• 51:04Speaker 05

  Okay, gamers.

• 51:06David Imel?

  Let's go, gamers.

• 51:08Speaker 05

  It's a fun question. Okay. Google, AKA.

• 51:11David Imel?

  Google.

• 51:12Speaker 05

  Google, AKA the Grim Reaper of technology, has officially scheduled Chrome.

• 51:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Is that my phone? It's no, it's Raya's phone.

• 51:28David Imel?

  Gemini is talking.

• 51:29Speaker 03

  That's my bad, my bad.

• 51:30Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 51:30David Imel?

  That's my bad.

• 51:31Speaker 05

  Um, Google, AKA the Grim Reaper of technology, has officially scheduled Chrome OS's demise. Insert thunder noise there.

• 51:41David Imel?

  Really?

• 51:41Speaker 05

  Uh, closest without going over, what year will Chrome OS be killed?

• 51:47David Imel?

  Oh.

• 51:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, when did this happen?

• 51:48David Imel?

  Chrome OS? Chrome OS is gonna get sunset?

• 51:52Speaker 05

  I don't know.

• 51:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Were we learning something on trivia?

• 51:54David Imel?

  They're still.

• 51:54Speaker 05

  Just get announced?

• 51:55David Imel?

  They're still making it.

• 51:56Speaker 02

  It got announced a month ago.

• 51:58David Imel?

  That they, that they were gonna sunset Chrome OS and just have Google Book OS?

• 52:01Speaker 03

  Two weeks ago, they were like, yeah, Chrome OS is gonna live alongside.

• 52:04David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 52:05Speaker 03

  Google Book OS.

• 52:06Speaker 02

  Um, I have, I have the Tom's Hardware article up right now.

• 52:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Can you just read while the headline?

• 52:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, what does the headline actually say is gonna happen? No more Chromebooks?

• 52:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Sorry, I'm not saying I don't trust you.

• 52:17Speaker 03

  I'm so.

• 52:17Andrew Manganelli?

  In fact, I'm surprised it's not already.

• 52:20Speaker 02

  Hold on, hold on.

• 52:22Speaker 03

  I can't believe we missed that.

• 52:25Speaker 02

  Here we go.

• 52:25Andrew Manganelli?

  That's great.

• 52:26David Imel?

  That's sinister. It's good.

• 52:29Speaker 02

  Google confer. Google confirms Chrome, Chrome OS phase out in blank, blank year. Support lifeline cut short for some devices. Company says it will support transition to Google Book OS. That was by Andrew E. Friedman on Tom's Hardware.

• 52:55David Imel?

  Wow.

• 52:57David Imel?

  Uh, that's crazy. I remember reviewing Google Books and big, a big part of my question was, so are Chromebooks still a thing? And then Google going out and being like, yes, yes, yes, yes, of course, there's still Chromebooks. They're the cheaper ones. Google Books are the nice premium ones. And I go, oh, that's the distinction.

• 53:14Speaker 03

  But there's also Chromebook Plus.

• 53:16David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 53:17Speaker 03

  So.

• 53:18Andrew Manganelli?

  This is a deja vu episode? Cause we also got told, Arc's going nowhere, Arc's going nowhere.

• 53:23David Imel?

  And there's also Hangouts and there's also Messages and there's also ALO.

• 53:26Andrew Manganelli?

  And Duo.

• 53:27David Imel?

  Duo.

• 53:27Andrew Manganelli?

  And me.

• 53:28David Imel?

  And there's also Google Meet. And there's also, I don't know, there's so many.

• 53:33Speaker 03

  So closest without going over will win this point?

• 53:36David Imel?

  The year they're sunsetting it or like the date, the exact date?

• 53:39Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 53:40Andrew Manganelli?

  The month?

• 53:40Speaker 03

  Should we do the?

• 53:42Speaker 02

  I have the month.

• 53:45Speaker 02

  But I thought it would be scarier if you just guessed the year.

• 53:50David Imel?

  Just the year?

• 53:51Speaker 02

  But if you wanna guess the month too, you, you can do that.

• 53:54Speaker 03

  Does it get us anything? If you get the closest?

• 53:58Speaker 05

  I think, should they get a bonus point if they get the month?

• 54:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course.

• 54:02Speaker 05

  What do we have to lose?

• 54:04Speaker 02

  Sure. You can do it.

• 54:05Speaker 03

  Well, we'll think about it like we usually do. Answers will be at the end. We'll be right back.

• 54:19Speaker 03

  Support for the show comes from Framer. Picture this, you launch a website and your whole team's celebrating. Then the support tickets start to roll in and put a damper on the mood. That's when you could use a website platform that lets teams build, ship and improve their sites faster than ever, while getting every detail right. For that, you could use Framer. It's a complete website platform, not just a builder, so teams can launch and keep improving their sites in one place. Framer lets you prompt, inspect, edit and publish in one place at a whole new pace. On Framer, AI agents and humans work in tandem, so agents bring speed and scale, while people bring taste, judgment and control. And that all takes place in the same workspace where the real site is designed, managed, reviewed and published.

• 55:00Speaker 03

  Framer is an enterprise level solution that the world's leading brands like Perplexity and Miro rely on to build their websites. Learn how you can get more out of your site from a Framer specialist or get started building for free today at framer.com/wave for 30% off a Framer Pro annual plan. So that's framer.com/wave. Rules and restrictions may apply. Support for the show comes from Shopify. Starting a business requires you to be resourceful and the more you flex that muscle, the more you see opportunities for growth. For example, launching a business with Black Friday approaching means that you can take advantage of the extra online traffic. Shopify is there to help you make it all happen. Shopify is the platform for a record-breaking, reliable holiday selling season for businesses at every stage.

• 55:42Speaker 03

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• 56:21Speaker 03

  Support for the show comes from Pipe Drive. So, sales teams spend up to 50% of their time on admin work, rather than selling, building relationships and closing deals. They could really use a tool that covers all the admin stuff. That way, sales teams could actually focus on the work they were hired to do. That's where Pipe Drive comes in. It's an intelligent, AI-powered sales CRM, loved by growing sales teams. Their new meeting intelligence features like the AI Note Taker are built right into the CRM. Pipe Drive automatically pulls deal history, email records and previous conversations. You can walk into a call already briefed. During meetings, Pipe Drive's AI Note Taker records and takes notes so you can stay in the conversation. Then it turns those notes into accurate, auto-drafted CRM updates, ready for you to review and approve. The end result, less admin, more selling.

• 57:06Speaker 03

  Switch to a CRM built by salespeople for salespeople and join the over 100,000 companies already using Pipe Drive. Our link gets you an exclusive 30 days free instead of the usual 14-day trial. No credit card or payment needed. Just head to pipedrive.com/waveform to get started. That's pipedrive.com/waveform and you can be up and running in minutes. All right, welcome back. Let's talk about the sequence of events that we got during the first half of this week that were all news and products that are coming out from Apple, big company around here. We've talked about their stuff a lot. And it's Techtober, so they had a bunch of new products for us. Monday, then Tuesday, then Wednesday.

• 57:43David Imel?

  That's right.

• 57:44Speaker 03

  Let's start with Monday.

• 57:44David Imel?

  Okay.

• 57:45Speaker 03

  New iPad Mini. Boom.

• 57:47David Imel?

  Boom.

• 57:47Speaker 03

  Just dropped.

• 57:47David Imel?

  OLED.

• 57:48Speaker 03

  Um, it's OLED. It's an A20 Pro chip. It is 128 gigs of base storage. Uh, it is 60 Hz.

• 58:00David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 58:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 58:02David Imel?

  It's the worst part.

• 58:03Andrew Manganelli?

  This is like, good feature, bad feature, good feature, bad feature.

• 58:07Speaker 03

  I, the more, okay, I'll just get the rest of the specs out, but I actually, I think I'm gonna, I wasn't gonna review this, but I think I'm going to because it is maybe the most Apple product in a long time. Okay, so it starts at $700, right? It is an eight and a half inch OLED 60 Hz. We've talked about that already. And that is a genuine, like, we were all looking forward to an OLED iPad Mini. What a nice little tablet to have a little OLED in there. Was I hoping it would have a? Oh my God, that's the other thing. It has a, oh God.

• 58:37Speaker 03

  It doesn't, it doesn't.

• 58:39David Imel?

  Go through the features, go through the features.

• 58:40Speaker 03

  Okay. It has no Face ID still. It has the Touch ID button.

• 58:44David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 58:45Speaker 03

  They have gotten rid of the speaker holes. Instead of speaker grills, it is an acoustic display.

• 58:51David Imel?

  Whoa.

• 58:51Speaker 03

  So the audio fire is directly out at you through the display. It's kind of interesting. Um, it's thinner, it's lighter, the selfie cameras move to the landscape bezel. It's IP67.

• 59:04Andrew Manganelli?

  I think that's.

• 59:05Speaker 03

  Wi-Fi chip.

• 59:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Why the speakers are changed to remove speaker holes to give it an IP rating?

• 59:09Speaker 03

  Yeah. And, uh, it does have a nano texture version available. So that's your base specs.

• 59:15David Imel?

  There's speaker holes in the.

• 59:16Andrew Manganelli?

  That's not your base specs. Or, well, I guess.

• 59:19Speaker 03

  That's your, that's your specs. That's just what the new iPad Mini is.

• 59:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Nano texture's only available. You can't get it in a base.

• 59:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, so this is where we start getting into why it's such an Apple product.

• 59:28David Imel?

  Cause.

• 59:28Speaker 03

  Because this price laddering is unbelievable with this product. It already starts at $700, as we've already established, right?

• 59:35David Imel?

  All right.

• 59:36Speaker 03

  Okay. First of all, they ladder you between iPads because this is a 60 Hz display. Where do you find a 60 Hz OLED in 2026, the year of our Lord? I don't know.

• 59:51David Imel?

  I wonder if this is gonna be one of those situations where it's capable of promotion, but they just didn't enable it?

• 59:56Speaker 03

  It's almost undoubtedly capable of 120 Hz.

• 59:59David Imel?

  The A20 Pro chip, doesn't that have the like, display chip in it?

• 1:00:03Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's probably an LTPS display that can do either 60 or 120 or something like that. And then they just decided to do 60.

• 1:00:11David Imel?

  I hope someone tries to vibe code crack this.

• 1:00:13Speaker 03

  That would be amazing. So that right there is price laddering you to go, man, if I could get 120 Hz, then you go straight up to the iPad Air, which is a whole nother product we could talk about. But then, okay, we also have to talk about the, uh, the nano texture. So if you pick a color, I'm just on their website right now, and you start at the $700, 128 gig.

• 1:00:32Andrew Manganelli?

  By the way, real quick, there's only two colors.

• 1:00:34Speaker 03

  Only two.

• 1:00:34Andrew Manganelli?

  I feel like iPad Mini was the one that had a couple, like, I have a purple one, even though it's barely purple.

• 1:00:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is another Apple thing they do where your, your only color options are cream, not white, and dark blue, not black. What are you doing? Stop doing this. This is the same as the iPad, as the iPhone Duo. Like, give us black or white. So they're like, how about not quite black or not quite white? All right, fine.

• 1:00:56Andrew Manganelli?

  La Croix black.

• 1:00:57Speaker 03

  Yeah. So $700, 128 gig, already not off to a great start. If you want the nano texture glass.

• 1:01:04David Imel?

  Oh my.

• 1:01:05Speaker 03

  You have to upgrade to the 256GB or 512GB model. Why would this storage in any way be tied to the way you assemble the display? I don't know, but that bumps you up, first of all, to get 256GB to $800. Then you pay for nano texture and that's $900.

• 1:01:23David Imel?

  $100 for the nano texture?

• 1:01:25Speaker 03

  $100 extra dollars.

• 1:01:26David Imel?

  On iPad mini?

• 1:01:26Speaker 03

  You have to bump up your storage to even get the privilege of paying the $100 to get the nano texture. So now you're at $900 for your iPad mini. Uh, you can get a half terabyte. That's a $1,000 iPad mini.

• 1:01:38Andrew Manganelli?

  That means it's an $1,100 iPad mini with nano texture.

• 1:01:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, if you want cellular, you pay $1,100 for this iPad.

• 1:01:46David Imel?

  Extra one, no, you can pay $1,250 if you want cellular. If you want all the fixings, it's $1,250.

• 1:01:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. So that's crazy.

• 1:01:53David Imel?

  A mini?

• 1:01:55Speaker 03

  And I already know, I can already see people clipping this on Twitter being like, why do you even care about 60 Hz? I promise you, it would be, it's not even that I have a problem with 60 Hz, but it would be so easy to make this a 120 Hz display.

• 1:02:07David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:07Speaker 03

  It's so, where are you even, like, for, find me another brand new, just coming out this year, $900 OLED tablet that has a 60 Hz display.

• 1:02:19David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:20Speaker 03

  It's very clear that you can make this 120 Hz. They're choosing not to. And I notice it, and not everyone will, but I do, I obviously notice it. The other things that's so Apple about this is they can argue that 120 Hz is promotion and we don't do promotion on a non-pro product.

• 1:02:38David Imel?

  They do now.

• 1:02:39Speaker 03

  Except they do now because the iPhone 17 has promotion and...

• 1:02:43David Imel?

  18, right?

• 1:02:45Speaker 03

  17.

• 1:02:46David Imel?

  The regular 17 as well?

• 1:02:47Speaker 03

  Base 17. There is no 18 yet, but that will have promotion.

• 1:02:50David Imel?

  You're right.

• 1:02:51Speaker 03

  But then also, also, there's an A20 Pro chip in this iPad. So you already did it on this product.

• 1:03:01David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:01Speaker 03

  So you could easily just throw in promotion. So that's another price laddering thing. Another reason why it's a very Apple product is the lack of speaker holes. It's really interesting. The sort of cleanup of the bottom of the device, if you look at it, it's just the port.

• 1:03:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, I will, I'll go out on a limb and say, I do think making the mini IP rated makes the most sense. And if that's what they had to do, I think the mini is the one that you care less about audio quality. Like, let's assume, besides the fact that it's now $700, that iPad mini is probably the most likely you're gonna throw at your kid to let them watch something. So like, avoid spills. Your kid's not gonna be like, the frequencies of this audio, unless you're Ellis, the 10-year-old's not gonna be like, Clifford the Big Red Dog sounds way less, way tinier in this iPad mini, like...

• 1:03:51Speaker 03

  I totally agree. I think it's the perfect...

• 1:03:52Andrew Manganelli?

  It makes the most sense here.

• 1:03:53Speaker 03

  Yeah. I guess my, my question is, why did that require getting rid of the speaker holes? I've, there's phone, they make phones with speaker holes that are IP68 rated. Like, there's lots of devices that have speaker holes that are IP68 rated. They decided on this one to do the IP67 rating, uh, but also... 67, okay, I get that. It's for the kids. Totally fine. But without the speaker holes, and that's like a, an unnecessary but random cool thing they decided to just do on this iPad mini. Cool. All right. Interesting.

• 1:04:24Andrew Manganelli?

  I also realize my whole argument works for the 60 Hz thing too, so I disagree with Andrew. I am now Adam. Shut the hell up, Andrew. You're wrong. Make it 120 Hz.

• 1:04:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's, it's this, it's an interesting little product. It's, it's very Apple to not have black or white. It's very Apple to walk you up the ladder like this.

• 1:04:42David Imel?

  Yeah, they have the same colors as the Duo.

• 1:04:44Speaker 02

  You heard the acoustic screen.

• 1:04:46David Imel?

  Did you get to hear it at the event?

• 1:04:47Speaker 03

  So at the event, they had iPad minis there and I have gotten to hear it.

• 1:04:51Speaker 02

  And?

• 1:04:52Speaker 03

  I mean, there's a lot of people running around yelling, so I couldn't really evaluate. The MacBook Pro also had new speakers. I couldn't really tell if they're better. But you can feel it sort of vibrating in your hand, which is interesting because it's, the whole thing is kind of a speaker.

• 1:05:06Speaker 02

  I think there's a, look, it's like a built-in tablet speaker. Like Andrew said, this is not, you know, high fidelity gold, but I do think there's a solid chance it could sound better than the, the speaker grill.

• 1:05:18Speaker 03

  I will be, I will A/B test them.

• 1:05:20Speaker 02

  I'm really curious to hear.

• 1:05:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:22Speaker 03

  Um, so yeah, it's, it's the new iPad mini. I, I'm not surprised that this got its own one-day press release and they moved on pretty quickly from it.

• 1:05:31David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:31Speaker 03

  Because it's not really mind-blowing.

• 1:05:33David Imel?

  Interesting how they're doing the same colors as the Duo with this. Just the, the dark blue and the starlight.

• 1:05:39Andrew Manganelli?

  That is...

• 1:05:39Speaker 03

  If it's the iPad for kids, like, give us some colors.

• 1:05:42David Imel?

  Yeah. Well, is it still the iPad for kids?

• 1:05:45Speaker 03

  At $700?

• 1:05:46David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:47Speaker 03

  What else would be the iPad for kids? Just the iPad iPad?

• 1:05:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Do they still sell the iPad iPad?

• 1:05:51David Imel?

  The education iPad.

• 1:05:52Speaker 03

  The iPad, yeah, they do.

• 1:05:53David Imel?

  Yeah, they do.

• 1:05:53Speaker 03

  That's the base one.

• 1:05:55Speaker 05

  So they discontinued the previous mini, is that correct?

• 1:05:57Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:05:58David Imel?

  So this one's just for pilots at this point?

• 1:06:00Speaker 03

  So the one for kids now is, I guess, the, the base iPad, which is $450.

• 1:06:05David Imel?

  Wow, that's a lot cheaper.

• 1:06:06Speaker 03

  But it's a big screen, so you know, we like that.

• 1:06:08David Imel?

  Yeah. Big screen kid. So what's the value of getting a smaller iPad for more expensive? Just OLED, that's it?

• 1:06:14Speaker 03

  You know, when you look at like, the way Apple markets these things, they, they show the iPad mini. You remember like how pilots love the iPad mini and like, students like the iPad mini for note-taking? They have pencil support.

• 1:06:25Andrew Manganelli?

  I love the iPad mini.

• 1:06:26Speaker 03

  I got my dad an iPad mini. It's like nice to read on. Like, it's a nice, it's a nice little iPad.

• 1:06:31Andrew Manganelli?

  If I'm carrying my laptop, I don't want to carry another thing that's basically the size of a laptop. I want the iPad mini to like, watch stuff on the plane or like, maybe bring for notes on something.

• 1:06:40Speaker 02

  But God forbid an iPhone be mini man, like...

• 1:06:44Speaker 03

  The thing is like, this is like a lot of overlap with the Duo, as we sort of have mentioned. The thing that makes the Duo a nice size to hold and read, also makes the iPad mini a nice size to hold and read.

• 1:06:54David Imel?

  You know what my conspiracy theory was? Is that this is $700 because the iPhone is now 12, was it 1,200 or 1,300 for the Pro? The iPhone 18 Pro?

• 1:07:04Speaker 03

  18 Pro is 1,100, right? Pro Max is more?

• 1:07:08David Imel?

  More than 1,100. Here, let me look. iPhone 18 Pro. I think it starts at 12, oh, it starts at 1,200. Okay.

• 1:07:14Speaker 03

  Damn.

• 1:07:14David Imel?

  So now, the reason, this is a complete conspiracy theory.

• 1:07:19Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:07:20David Imel?

  But you could buy an iPhone 18 Pro and an iPad mini and it would be $1,900. But for a little bit more, for a hundred dollars more, you can buy both at the same time.

• 1:07:32Speaker 03

  Coincidence?

• 1:07:33Speaker 02

  Get a little bit less.

• 1:07:35Speaker 03

  So much of this...

• 1:07:36David Imel?

  But you'd have 120 Hz in there.

• 1:07:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:38David Imel?

  This makes me wonder, like, because Apple is increasing prices across the board of basically every product, it makes me wonder if the Duo would have been cheaper in like, if it came out before Ramageddon.

• 1:07:50Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. I think so.

• 1:07:52David Imel?

  You think so?

• 1:07:52Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 1:07:53Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know.

• 1:07:54David Imel?

  Because it's like the same price as, I mean, it's not the same price as the Fold 8 anymore, but like, what the Folds used to cost was always $2,000. And it's $2,000. So they could have undercut, but I feel like they might be charging less than they should be because they want people to adopt it.

• 1:08:12Speaker 03

  Relative to like...

• 1:08:13David Imel?

  Yeah. Because remember, we thought it was gonna be like 2,400 bucks.

• 1:08:16Speaker 03

  True.

• 1:08:16David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:18David Imel?

  Anyway, that was day one.

• 1:08:19Speaker 03

  That was day one.

• 1:08:20Andrew Manganelli?

  I was just gonna say, this iPad mini feels like half of a team wanted to make iPad mini Pro and the other half of the team wanted to just make the next, where they like, added these things like OLED, nano texture. And then they were like, but no Face, a new chip. Like, this could have felt like a really big leap because the previous iPad mini's a 17 Pro, I think.

• 1:08:40Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:08:41Andrew Manganelli?

  So like, this could have really felt like...

• 1:08:43David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:43Andrew Manganelli?

  A totally different product.

• 1:08:45Speaker 03

  I, I really like the idea of an iPad mini Pro.

• 1:08:48David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:48Speaker 03

  This with 120 Hz and Face ID is all I would need to make this an iPad mini Pro.

• 1:08:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, but then with this being the base iPad mini, iPad mini Pro then starts at $1,000, at $128 for just those two things. It's, I think that's the issue is they probably couldn't find...

• 1:09:06Speaker 03

  Well, addressing...

• 1:09:06Andrew Manganelli?

  To keep an iPad mini, under an iPad mini Pro.

• 1:09:08David Imel?

  Addressing your take, Andrew, I think that they just needed to make more OLED panels to make the cost of the OLED for the new MacBook Pro go down.

• 1:09:15Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:09:16David Imel?

  So if they just make as much OLED as possible and then slowly start sticking as many products as possible, then it becomes cheaper to make OLEDs.

• 1:09:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, the other one's a ProLED, so...

• 1:09:25David Imel?

  Oh, right, right. Oh, right, that one could do 120 Hz, right? Okay. Anyway, uh, okay, day two, day two, day two.

• 1:09:32Speaker 03

  So day two, we get the Apple Creator Studio update, like we've talked about. We also get a new M6 iMac and M6 14-inch MacBook Pro.

• 1:09:43David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:43Speaker 03

  So they basically just did a chip refresh for those two machines. Um, there's no new colors, no, nothing really else changed with the iMac, right? It's just the same iMac, but with the new chip.

• 1:09:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I read you the quote that proves that this is literally just a new chip?

• 1:09:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:56Andrew Manganelli?

  In the press release, it says, "The new iMac is a tremendous upgrade, especially for users coming from an Intel-based iMac who will experience performance up to 18 times faster."

• 1:10:06Andrew Manganelli?

  The Intel.

• 1:10:07Speaker 03

  Eighteen. That's really fu- that's actually a great quote because first of all, obviously, if you're coming from an Intel-based iMac, you are going to, you're going to experience a completely different feeling.

• 1:10:17Andrew Manganelli?

  It's not even the same product.

• 1:10:19Speaker 03

  You're gonna feel like this is a new class of computer.

• 1:10:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:22Speaker 03

  But also like, it would be funny if they compared it to M1, because yeah, if you compare this to the Intel one, eighteen times, yeah, eighteen times, everything is blazing fast on this computer. But, um, yeah, compared to M1, that's, that's maybe a little more interesting.

• 1:10:36David Imel?

  Yeah. And then M6 MacBook, M6 MacBook Pro, only in 14-inch. Um, it starts at $2,000 and comes with 16 gigs of RAM and a terabyte of storage. If you buy the 16-inch, uh, you can get M5 Pro and M5 Max. The M5 Pro does start at 24 gigs of RAM, but it is 3,000. So definitely expensive computer. Day two, the most boring day of all time.

• 1:10:59Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 1:10:59David Imel?

  But day three, day three is what we've been waiting for for a very long time. Uh, Marquez went to an event specifically to see what they announced at day three, which was the new MacBook Pro with ProLED and a touchscreen.

• 1:11:13Speaker 03

  ProLED XDR.

• 1:11:15David Imel?

  For some reason, a touchscreen.

• 1:11:16Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:11:16David Imel?

  ProLED XDR.

• 1:11:17Speaker 03

  Okay. So the headlining feature is that it has a new tandem OLED display, which is also a touchscreen. But there are also a bunch of other little small things that they also updated around this laptop that to me are frankly more interesting than the touchscreen part.

• 1:11:33David Imel?

  Quality of life improvements.

• 1:11:34Speaker 03

  And are, yeah, it has my head spinning. It's also, it's a very expensive computer. It starts that base 14-inch with ProLED XDR. Uh, it's $2,900 and the base 16-inch is $3,400. That's before any memory or 16 terabytes of storage or whatever you're gonna do to the thing.

• 1:11:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:55Speaker 03

  So very pricey, but you know, we just also got a Surface Ultra that's like $3,000 and touchscreen and RTX.

• 1:12:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, but that is 5,166.

• 1:12:03Speaker 03

  GPU cores?

• 1:12:04David Imel?

  Yeah, right.

• 1:12:04Speaker 03

  Very true. Very true. Different strokes. Okay. So, yeah, the, the screen is awesome. I, I spent a lot of time looking at this thing and they, they had a whole bunch of HDR content. That was their favorite thing to do is show us like, you know, when you go on YouTube and search like 4K HDR, it's got those like colorful bright bubbles through like, like a lava lamp through like black space. Like it's, it's beautiful. Um, that stuff all looked amazing. Not that the mini LED laptop I'm looking at ever looked bad, but you get a 10 million to one contrast ratio. You basically eliminate blooming completely.

• 1:12:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:40Speaker 03

  Like the individual pixels light themselves. It's, it's a great looking screen. Um, they rounded off the bottom corners a little bit as well. They did some interesting stuff like slightly thinner bezels. They also did a dynamic island at the top and they did, uh, what else was I gonna say? Uh, oh, and well, okay. So it's a touchscreen and it also keeps the ability to switch to a nano texture as well. So there's a whole bunch there with this new screen. It looks great. They've also re-architected the thermal design inside the laptop.

• 1:13:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I have two gripes about the screen before we move on?

• 1:13:18Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:13:19David Imel?

  Gripes.

• 1:13:20Speaker 03

  This is the best screen I've ever.

• 1:13:21Andrew Manganelli?

  ProLED is a terrible name.

• 1:13:22Speaker 03

  Oh, totally.

• 1:13:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Terrible name. I think we all.

• 1:13:24David Imel?

  ProLED seems like a, a pun that I would just make on the fly and then say ha.

• 1:13:29Speaker 03

  I was trying to figure out.

• 1:13:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Don't finish the name, like for real.

• 1:13:32Speaker 03

  So Pro, so, okay, to try to break this down, Pro Display XDR was their mini LED Pro Display and XDR was for HDR. Now this is ProLED XDR. So ProLED is like a concatenation of Pro and OLED and then XDR for HDR, even though mini LED already did HDR, they didn't call it XDR? Or did they? I don't even know if they did.

• 1:13:58Andrew Manganelli?

  I have no, I can't keep up with their naming. It's too hard.

• 1:14:01Speaker 03

  MacBook Pro with, they could have just said OLED, but they decided to say ProLED.

• 1:14:06David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:07Speaker 03

  And then XDR.

• 1:14:08David Imel?

  So it's MacBook Pro with ProLED XDR.

• 1:14:11Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:14:11David Imel?

  Oh my god.

• 1:14:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. Guys, so I agree. Bad name.

• 1:14:14Andrew Manganelli?

  We did say, do we think they're gonna name this something different? And not really.

• 1:14:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:14:19Andrew Manganelli?

  It's like with blah, blah, blah.

• 1:14:21Speaker 03

  I actually think that's pretty important framing for a lot of this, which is this is just one option in the MacBook Pro lineup. This isn't like a new computer. This is the MacBook Pro with the touchscreen.

• 1:14:32Andrew Manganelli?

  It is weird though, because when you go to the Apple website and click MacBook Pro, it is two separate options. It is.

• 1:14:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:14:38Andrew Manganelli?

  This with ProLED and then the two other ones with M6, M5 Pro, M5 Max are like separate options. Um, my other just quick gripe is I think this is the worst marketing background they've ever put on any Apple product.

• 1:14:53Speaker 03

  The wallpaper?

• 1:14:54Andrew Manganelli?

  The wallpaper on it is so, why?

• 1:14:57David Imel?

  Why?

• 1:14:58Andrew Manganelli?

  It, it's really hard to tell that it says Pro. I think this.

• 1:15:01David Imel?

  The Pro?

• 1:15:02Andrew Manganelli?

  It says, yes.

• 1:15:03David Imel?

  Wait, this one?

• 1:15:04Andrew Manganelli?

  No, no, no. Look up just like, look up, uh, Apple MacBook, MacBook Pro with OLED, um, and you'll see all the.

• 1:15:11David Imel?

  The stripy one.

• 1:15:12Andrew Manganelli?

  It looks like a broken screen, which I think is funny because it kind of looks like all the streaks that are coming across iPhone duos when they.

• 1:15:18David Imel?

  Oh, this?

• 1:15:19Andrew Manganelli?

  That. It looks really bad. I know they.

• 1:15:22Speaker 03

  Um, it does.

• 1:15:24David Imel?

  It's a choice.

• 1:15:24Andrew Manganelli?

  They also, in most of the marketing material, kept showing screens that like don't show dynamic island, which feels like one of the bigger upgrades of this. And to prove that it's a new screen.

• 1:15:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:33Andrew Manganelli?

  I know in some, you said they looked like they were in like display mode, but I don't know. I just think a lot of times it looks like there's just this huge black bar across.

• 1:15:40Speaker 03

  They did. A lot of full screen apps do that and they will sort of hide it. And I'm not sure if that's because if you, if you build your app for full screen with a computer with a notch, it doesn't use that top space?

• 1:15:53David Imel?

  Yeah, it's because they don't want the dynamic island cutting into the content.

• 1:15:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:59David Imel?

  Which is kind of ironic because on, if you watch YouTube videos on the Duo on the front screen, the front screen and like the status bar and stuff are just sitting over the video.

• 1:16:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:16:10David Imel?

  But that's a YouTube problem.

• 1:16:11Speaker 03

  When I full screen apps on this laptop, it, it saves the space at the top with the notch and the menu bar and it just, uh.

• 1:16:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:16:19Speaker 03

  It does the same thing on this new one. So I'd be curious if new apps, if apps like change that on, uh, this new MacBook Pro.

• 1:16:24David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:25Speaker 03

  But yeah, dynamic island. What you said is, is, I guess it's not really an upgrade. I guess it's smaller of a cutout, but it's.

• 1:16:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Dynamic island?

• 1:16:32Speaker 03

  Dynamic island, sorry. But it's, uh, it's just a selfie camera and ambient light sensor still.

• 1:16:36Andrew Manganelli?

  But they added like live activities and that's where your spotlight comes out of. They added software things to it that makes it better. And I do think it still looks better than the notch. The notch still looks awful and.

• 1:16:47Speaker 03

  I actually kinda like the notch.

• 1:16:49Andrew Manganelli?

  I think dynamic island looks better. And also just in my eyes, it's not even just that it's too hard to make a marketing image say touchscreen. So to make a MacBook that looks like everything else look new, the dynamic island might be one of the only visual differences.

• 1:17:05Speaker 03

  Definitely.

• 1:17:05Andrew Manganelli?

  So I don't know why they're hiding it. And not in the main wallpaper, but in a lot of other press material, they're hiding it.

• 1:17:09Speaker 03

  Yeah. But it is, it is the new change on the front. There's also a new change on the back. It was getting people really excited about this laptop, uh, which is they've brought back the glowing Apple logo.

• 1:17:20David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:20Speaker 03

  On the back.

• 1:17:21David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:21Speaker 03

  You might be, uh, watching the video version and realizing I'm not exactly the biggest, uh, glowing Apple logo lover. I've just typically covered up the logo on the back of the laptop. I've de-branded my, you know, that's where they made the name for them, right?

• 1:17:34David Imel?

  Yeah, the de-brand.

• 1:17:34Speaker 03

  But it glows. And you know what's funny about that? This is an OLED laptop, which means it doesn't have a backlight.

• 1:17:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:43Speaker 03

  And I remember those old laptops with the lighting logo, you could kind of just like cut a hole in the back and like use the backlight. And so if you have a brighter display, it'll have like a brighter glowing logo, which is like kinda neat. This one does the same thing.

• 1:17:57David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:58Speaker 03

  If you have a brighter display, the back logo glows brighter, but there's no backlight. They've just built a new piece just to light the logo.

• 1:18:06David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:07Speaker 03

  Cool.

• 1:18:08David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:08Speaker 03

  They really wanted people to have that.

• 1:18:10David Imel?

  I mean, yeah, I, I don't wanna walk into the cafe and see these just blaring.

• 1:18:15Speaker 03

  Oh, you'll see them.

• 1:18:16David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:17Speaker 03

  You'll know. That guy got the new one. You can see it's glowing over there.

• 1:18:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Film school lecture halls where you have to like watch movies are just going to be lit up.

• 1:18:24David Imel?

  Yeah. Luckily you can turn it off. So.

• 1:18:27Speaker 03

  Oh, good. Yeah.

• 1:18:28David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:29David Imel?

  Um, it is really interesting how they did it though, because it still looks like the standard black Apple logo on the back, but it, then it lights up white. And I don't, I don't really know how they are doing that. Um.

• 1:18:40Speaker 03

  They were really cagey about it.

• 1:18:42David Imel?

  Really?

• 1:18:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:43David Imel?

  Interesting. That's a weird thing to be cagey about.

• 1:18:46Speaker 03

  Multiple, it is. I agree. Multiple people, multiple times were super cagey about it. I remember I walked up to the, the guy at the like the hands-on area and I was like, wow, oh, it like lights up. He was like, yeah, it goes up with brightness and down. And I started doing that and I was like, wow, that's interesting. There's no backlight though. And he was like, yeah, we just designed it this way to do that. And I was like, that was a weird response. And then I went and, you know, had some other meetings and, uh, the iFixit guys were like, so how do you do it? And they were like, well, you'll do your tail, that your teardown, you'll figure it out.

• 1:19:15David Imel?

  Wait, so the iFixit guys were there?

• 1:19:17Speaker 03

  Uh, not the iFixit guys, but it's people who do teardown.

• 1:19:19David Imel?

  Oh, okay, okay, okay.

• 1:19:20Speaker 03

  And they're gonna figure it out eventually.

• 1:19:21David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:21Speaker 03

  But I thought that was hilarious.

• 1:19:22David Imel?

  Yeah, it's an LED, a light emitting decal.

• 1:19:27Speaker 03

  It does look, it does look good. People were very happy about that.

• 1:19:29David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:30Speaker 03

  The rest of the laptop looks very similar, same speaker looks, although there are slightly different speakers that should have more bass, according to them.

• 1:19:38David Imel?

  50% better bass.

• 1:19:39Speaker 03

  Great. I'll check that out.

• 1:19:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Specifically for playing in clamshell mode, like playing when the lid is closed.

• 1:19:45David Imel?

  It's closed?

• 1:19:46Speaker 03

  They've tuned it to do better.

• 1:19:48David Imel?

  Do that?

• 1:19:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Presumably, I guess, if you're putting an external monitor that doesn't have speakers, although they don't even sell the monitor that doesn't have speakers.

• 1:19:54Speaker 03

  Incredibly specific use case. You're plugging it into an external monitor and using it in clamshell mode, but you still want to use the speakers of the laptop that's sitting on your desk.

• 1:20:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Maybe you hit your music and then hold it like a boombox closed.

• 1:20:06David Imel?

  I, look, I'll say on road trips, I'll forget to bring a Bluetooth speaker and we'll wanna like listen to music in the motel while we're like hanging out and doing our film stuff. And I just use my MacBook Pro and it sounds pretty.

• 1:20:16Speaker 03

  Closed?

• 1:20:17David Imel?

  No.

• 1:20:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, yeah, but now he might save some battery by closing it and not having the screen on.

• 1:20:21David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:21Speaker 03

  Close it up now.

• 1:20:23David Imel?

  Yeah, well, interesting.

• 1:20:24Speaker 03

  Same ports.

• 1:20:25Speaker 02

  Oh, so Rufus and I have both blown out the speakers on our MacBook Pros.

• 1:20:29David Imel?

  Really?

• 1:20:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, we don't know how we did it, but the fact that both of us now have blown out speakers.

• 1:20:34Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 1:20:35David Imel?

  The two sound guys blow out the speakers. I don't know how they did it. I thought the whole thing is that it like was measuring the amount of power that went through it and it like lowered the heat and everything.

• 1:20:44Speaker 02

  They measure it so that they can run the speakers as hot as possible all the time. So I think that just over time.

• 1:20:51David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:20:52Speaker 03

  Well, it's much lighter. Yeah, so speaking of running hot, new cooling system in the laptop.

• 1:20:59David Imel?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:20:59Speaker 03

  And that combined with the new display being lighter, the whole machine is substantially lighter.

• 1:21:05David Imel?

  That's that's probably maybe the biggest difference.

• 1:21:09Speaker 03

  This is my favorite difference with this.

• 1:21:10David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:11Speaker 03

  The 14 inch computer goes from three and a half pounds to three. That's pretty nice. The 16 inch goes from, I think it's 0.7 pounds lighter. So it's like almost, it's like 3.8 pounds now. It's something crazy. It's like almost the same weight as the old 14, which is crazy. It's like.

• 1:21:28Andrew Manganelli?

  It's so funny because like people who hate Apple.

• 1:21:30David Imel?

  Four pounds to three.

• 1:21:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Point seven pounds, but like that's a significant percentage of the total weight.

• 1:21:35David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:36Andrew Manganelli?

  That's like a noticeable difference.

• 1:21:37Speaker 03

  Picking it up, I I noticed it immediately and was very happy about it. Like the way that the MacBook Air with the big screen feels like a big light Mac. We got so very used to these MacBook Pros being like thicker and chunkier because like, oh, we got the ports, you got the performance. It's all great. We just accepted that they were heavier, but now seeing this one and feeling it be lightweight. I was like, oh, that's nice.

• 1:21:58David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:00Speaker 03

  We don't know now. The question is, how does this new cooling system perform? Because you have this new OLED, this tandem OLED, which gets brighter, generates more heat. You have the same M5 Pro or M5 Max chips, which also generate a lot of heat. Speakers generating a lot of heat, like all this is still going on, like how will long term thermal performance be changed with this new one? We'll see.

• 1:22:24Speaker 05

  I'm so excited to try this computer.

• 1:22:25Speaker 03

  You're about to render everything.

• 1:22:27Speaker 05

  I'm about to max out the $14,000 16 terabyte option.

• 1:22:32Speaker 03

  You can get 16 terabytes of internal storage.

• 1:22:34David Imel?

  That's pretty awesome.

• 1:22:36Speaker 05

  But yeah.

• 1:22:36David Imel?

  I want to clarify really quickly, half a pound lighter on the 14 inch and 0.7 pounds lighter on the 16 inch.

• 1:22:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:43David Imel?

  Yeah, the way the price laddering works is really interesting because when you pay for certain things, you also get more of other things. For example, if you buy the M5 Pro, it starts at 24 gigs of RAM and a terabyte. If you buy the M5 Max, but then you get the 18 core CPU, 32 core GPU, it starts at 36 gigs, two terabytes. So at least you get more, double the storage to when you're paying. I mean, it's an extra $1,400 for the Max chip, but you also get an extra terabyte of storage and you get 12 more gigs of RAM. If you get the eight more cores of GPU, it also gets upgraded to 48 gigabytes of RAM. So that's nice.

• 1:23:26Andrew Manganelli?

  You're losing money if you don't go.

• 1:23:28David Imel?

  Yeah, I mean, it's a, yeah, for the extra $300, you are getting 12 gigs of RAM and can you buy 12 gigs of RAM for $300 in 2026?

• 1:23:35Speaker 03

  That's not bad.

• 1:23:35David Imel?

  Um, yeah, so it is. It is strange. It's kind of hard to spec this out, but.

• 1:23:41Speaker 03

  But if you do just hit the top button for every single one, you will spend 15 grand.

• 1:23:45David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:45Speaker 03

  Which is crazy.

• 1:23:46David Imel?

  Okay, and then the main thing we need to talk about, because this is sort of their big deal, which it probably shouldn't be, but the touchscreen. Do you want to talk about the touchscreen and how they have optimized macOS and stuff like that?

• 1:23:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:23:58David Imel?

  If they've really done that.

• 1:24:00Speaker 03

  So a couple of interesting things with the touchscreen.

• 1:24:01David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:02Speaker 03

  You can kind of think of this as like the trackpad, but on the screen.

• 1:24:06David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:24:07Speaker 03

  I think that's the best way to explain it. No pencil support.

• 1:24:10David Imel?

  That's crazy.

• 1:24:10Speaker 03

  But you can do, you know, the four finger gesture to swipe between spaces. You can do that. You can pinch to zoom. You can scroll and do all sorts of things in apps that have input, obviously.

• 1:24:23David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:24Speaker 03

  So that works pretty well. There are also lots of little touch targets and small things happening. So when you want to drag a window around, you have to like grab the exact like top handle on the window and that's kind of hard to grab. But if you manage to grab it, you can fling it to the side and it'll give you a half sized, half screen sized window.

• 1:24:41David Imel?

  That's nice.

• 1:24:41Speaker 03

  That's pretty cool. And then if you hit the tiniest touch target on the whole Mac, which is just the three stoplight buttons.

• 1:24:48David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:49Speaker 03

  One touch expands them and makes them all bigger. And then your second touch actually selects your button.

• 1:24:54David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:24:55Speaker 03

  So that's at least one adaptation. The rest seems to just be dynamic islands, swipe down from the top to open spotlight and type in search or Siri.

• 1:25:05Andrew Manganelli?

  That's a, I feel so stupid to be like, I already had command space, which you still have, but it's something that has to be typed on. So you have to go to the top and then come down to your keyboard. I guess that is one motion, but.

• 1:25:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, they did that. And then there's all those controls in the corner of macOS that always have looked like they're optimized for touch. Now they're not any different. You literally just slide on them and they they work exactly like.

• 1:25:31David Imel?

  That's maybe a little faster if you just want to do that real quick than like going up and I mean, not a lot faster. I don't know.

• 1:25:37Speaker 03

  What I've noticed is that the big gestures with like large touch targets work nice, like the big four finger paw across to move spaces or like a scroll on a website, that type of stuff, that works fine. The hinge is a little bit stiffer. It's not a huge difference.

• 1:25:57Andrew Manganelli?

  It's like new designed hinge, right? Every video I saw still looked like most hinges.

• 1:26:03Speaker 03

  You have a MacBook Pro in front of you right now.

• 1:26:05Andrew Manganelli?

  This one is pretty wobbly.

• 1:26:06Speaker 03

  It's pretty close to that. It's not.

• 1:26:07Andrew Manganelli?

  It's close to this?

• 1:26:08Speaker 03

  It's close. Hold on. Okay, yours is a little wobblier than this.

• 1:26:11David Imel?

  But it's more.

• 1:26:12Speaker 03

  It's pretty similar to this.

• 1:26:13David Imel?

  More reinforced, would you say?

• 1:26:16Speaker 03

  It feels 15% stiffer than this one.

• 1:26:19David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:21Speaker 03

  But the other thing you'll notice is that all of the small touch targets and little things that people were trying to do in all these demos, like hitting the play button in Final Cut Pro or like hitting just like the playhead or like certain moving little small things around.

• 1:26:33David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:34Speaker 03

  Tons and tons of awkward missed touches all of the time. It looks frustrating to use. Like I was playing with it for a little bit, like trying to move windows around. I would mess up. I put a video on Twitter where you see me like miss the touch target three or four times. Like it's, it's not designed to be used this way. It is simply an extra option for if you occasionally want to use it.

• 1:26:55David Imel?

  Which I think that's the way to think of it. Kind of framed it that way.

• 1:26:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:58David Imel?

  Didn't seem like they really went crazy hard and like you, it's completely different now because you can touch it.

• 1:27:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:05David Imel?

  It was kind of in between.

• 1:27:07Speaker 03

  I think, yeah.

• 1:27:08Andrew Manganelli?

  But at the same time, their demos were like, touch this MacBook and the whole wall like also replicates the touching that you're doing.

• 1:27:15David Imel?

  A little much.

• 1:27:16Speaker 03

  It was.

• 1:27:16David Imel?

  Like reinventing the touchscreen from first principles.

• 1:27:19Andrew Manganelli?

  No one's ever seen this before.

• 1:27:21David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah, brand new.

• 1:27:23Speaker 03

  The Steve Jobs quote rings so true. It makes good demo.

• 1:27:26David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:27Speaker 03

  It makes really cool demo.

• 1:27:29David Imel?

  Touching a screen?

• 1:27:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, it does. Like weirdly enough, like the oohs and ahs from the crowd were like when they started like the original iPhone moment where they started pawing across the screen. People went, whoa, I can do that now. And then you look at the actual use case examples and you're like, someone pulled up like a MIDI controller, like a tiny piano in Logic and was like.

• 1:27:49David Imel?

  Like the worst experience of all time.

• 1:27:51Speaker 03

  I was like, I'm not a musician. Okay, I'm not making music, but that doesn't look comfortable. That doesn't look like how I would want to compose. I guess it's something you can do as an option now. But yeah, it's not like a reason to exist.

• 1:28:07David Imel?

  To me, touchscreens have always felt like in certain random use cases, they're kind of helpful. Like in Photoshop, I used to use a Surface Book 2. And I really liked in Photoshop being able to like turn things with my fingers and zoom in like that and do things like that. And occasionally use the pencil, but very, very infrequently. And that was like, cool, but I didn't really use it for anything else. And so sure, it makes sense to just throw a touchscreen in because you might as well. But honestly, and I've been saying this for years, and I don't know how hard, I'm not like a mechanical engineer, so I don't know how hard this is to do. They have a massive, massive touchpad on these computers. Just add Apple pencil support. Because what this doesn't have, the screen doesn't have, is Apple pencil support.

• 1:28:50David Imel?

  If the Steve Jobs quote specifically says that vertical touchscreens just aren't comfortable and just don't work and make your arm tired. The touchpad is horizontal.

• 1:29:02Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:29:03David Imel?

  You could just, you know, and maybe it's really, really hard to do, but they figured out how to make a glowing Apple logo. So I feel like they could figure out how to make that work.

• 1:29:10Speaker 05

  I feel like there's a lot of brands that take risks with the touchpad. Like I think Asus, is it the Zen Books have always done kind of crazy things.

• 1:29:16David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:17Speaker 05

  And I don't know why no one else.

• 1:29:20David Imel?

  Apple's got, and I feel like they will eventually do it. This feels like a case of Apple not wanting to cannibalize the iPad. But they're slowly cannibalizing their own products with their own products because eventually they're forced to, right? They separate them out into you can only do this with this product. You can only do this with this product. But eventually they start to converge over time and then they just give in and they gave in with the iPhone Duo and they need to just give in with the MacBook.

• 1:29:44Speaker 03

  I, so the way that my video ended, my impressions of the event is first of all, yes, the the touchscreen is just an option and it's a thing you can do if you want, but it just kind of sits there. You can disable it. You can just never use it.

• 1:29:57David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:58Speaker 03

  But the other thing I keep feeling is that this new turnus Apple is a little bit more willing to just try some stuff.

• 1:30:06David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:06Speaker 03

  That doesn't necessarily fit as well in like a.

• 1:30:10David Imel?

  We're telling you what to do.

• 1:30:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a little less structured, a little less like visionary about how things should be.

• 1:30:16David Imel?

  Right.

• 1:30:17Speaker 03

  Older versions of Apple, and I had my frustrations with it, they refused to make certain products because of that overlap. They would be very clear about like, this is the iPhone and it shall not touch the iPad, which shall not touch the Mac, which shall not. And they have these very clear delineations. And as you brought up iPhone Duo, it's right in the middle there. You're like, what is this product? Well, it's an iPhone and an iPad, basically. What? This is like something they would never have done in the past.

• 1:30:44David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:44Speaker 03

  And now we're seeing a touchscreen on a MacBook, which is, you know, it feels exactly like stepping on iPad Pros toes. If they had done any more with pencil support, it would feel like it's literally cannibalizing it.

• 1:30:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:55Speaker 03

  So that's interesting. But all of them are also, yeah, they're just kind of like an option that you can try if you want. And because people are so used to the old Apple.

• 1:31:06David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:07Speaker 03

  When the new iPhone comes out, there's a whole group of humans that are interested in the newest iPhone because it's the newest iPhone. But when the newest iPhone is just the iPhone Duo, that's not really necessarily for everyone. It feels a little weird. Like, oh, this is, it's the newest, most expensive iPhone? Surely it's the best one and I should get it? Not really. It's just like a new thing you could try if you want, but not for everyone.

• 1:31:28David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:28Speaker 03

  And same thing with this new laptop. There's a lot of creators and a lot of developers.

• 1:31:32David Imel?

  3D artists.

• 1:31:33Speaker 03

  And a lot of 3D artists who are saying, oh, there's a new highest end MacBook Pro. Boom, okay, what's in it? It's not for everyone. It's just they threw a touchscreen in there and they're like, well, I don't need a touchscreen. Well, then don't get it. It's not for you. They're just trying this new thing that they're adding to the lineup. And yes, it is expensive and very overkill for most people, but it's like an extra thing that they're just trying out.

• 1:31:53David Imel?

  That's true.

• 1:31:54Speaker 03

  And I kinda like that.

• 1:31:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:56Speaker 05

  And it's weird just for it to feel like something monumentous, maybe for Apple it is, because so many other brands have been doing it for years.

• 1:32:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:04Speaker 05

  And it's hard to be an educated consumer, but if you only just exclusively buy Apple and you don't know what else is in the market, it might feel like a really big deal.

• 1:32:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:12Speaker 05

  Um, but I think healthy competition is good, I would say.

• 1:32:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Did you see the clip of Kaizen?

• 1:32:18David Imel?

  I was about to bring that up.

• 1:32:19Andrew Manganelli?

  About a Samsung fold for the first time? And they're like, this is like eight years old at this point. He's like, a Samsung? Are you kidding?

• 1:32:26Speaker 03

  Samsung Duo? He said Samsung Duo.

• 1:32:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Did he say that?

• 1:32:28Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, I, it's weird because Apple marketing, to your point, very much still in old Apple land. Like, everything is brand new and grandiose and like amazing, we reinvented this thing. This is the first time you've ever seen it.

• 1:32:43David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:44Speaker 03

  And that, yeah, it kinda goes against their show up late and make it better than the competition thing because the competition's been doing it for years.

• 1:32:51David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:51Speaker 03

  So, yeah, it is kinda, kind of interesting to see.

• 1:32:53David Imel?

  And then at the other end of the spectrum, there's the Home View, which they're really trying to not cannibalize the iPad with the Home View because you can't install third-party apps on it.

• 1:33:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:33:03David Imel?

  They only give you the Apple apps on it.

• 1:33:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:33:05David Imel?

  So they know, because they know that you would just like, people are using their iPads as home, like, control displays. But now they're like, well, you can have a Home View for 300 bucks, or you could have an iPad, but they don't, they don't cross. We don't want them to cross, even though it's just a square iPad on a, on a speaker.

• 1:33:23Speaker 03

  You could get an iPad Mini and a HomePod Mini.

• 1:33:25David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:26Speaker 03

  Or you could get a Home View. Yeah. I think, I think if this keeps up, we're gonna see a lot more random feeling Apple products that aren't necessarily in line for some, like, vision of the computing future.

• 1:33:37David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:38Speaker 03

  Vision is also a pun. Um, because I think they're gonna do other headsets that are like next to Vision Pro, an expensive one, a cheaper one, a Duo. This is why I think they're gonna do a big Duo. They're gonna do a Duo Pro. I'm, I'm more sure.

• 1:33:49David Imel?

  A bigger one?

• 1:33:50Speaker 03

  I think they're gonna do a different Duo.

• 1:33:51David Imel?

  It's the same shape.

• 1:33:52Speaker 05

  It's gonna be an iPad that folds in half.

• 1:33:54Speaker 03

  I think they're gonna, I think they're gonna get there.

• 1:33:56David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:56Speaker 03

  So anyway, that is, that is, you know, a little more interesting, a little more fun and a little less, uh.

• 1:34:02David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:02Speaker 03

  Directed.

• 1:34:03David Imel?

  I definitely don't hate the idea of an Apple that makes different products for different people, instead of just being like, here's the price ladder, if you want the best one, this is who, it's for everybody, and it's just more expensive.

• 1:34:13Speaker 05

  Yeah. They're a company that can, I feel like, afford to take risks, so why not try new stuff?

• 1:34:18David Imel?

  They're one of the few consumer tech companies.

• 1:34:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:34:22David Imel?

  So that was that. Um, I think that's gonna be the last giant Apple announcement of the year. I think we are officially done.

• 1:34:29Andrew Manganelli?

  Sayonara.

• 1:34:31David Imel?

  Sayonara.

• 1:34:32Speaker 03

  Bro, I'm tired, man.

• 1:34:33David Imel?

  Don't worry.

• 1:34:34Speaker 03

  Don't worry. I have so many more videos to make, dude. There's so much stuff.

• 1:34:36David Imel?

  Yeah, you got, you gotta do Home View review.

• 1:34:39Speaker 03

  I gotta review these things.

• 1:34:40David Imel?

  You gotta review the laptops.

• 1:34:41Speaker 03

  There's still, there's phones that have been coming out. There's the Oppo Find X10 Pro Max.

• 1:34:45David Imel?

  Becca just did a video on that.

• 1:34:46Speaker 03

  There's the Surface Laptop Ultra and also the ProArt Laptop.

• 1:34:50David Imel?

  Oh my god.

• 1:34:52Speaker 03

  All the RTX Spark stuff.

• 1:34:53Andrew Manganelli?

  There's a new ProArt Laptop?

• 1:34:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, all the RTX Spark one. And then, and then you have that alongside Mac Mini and Mac Studio, so all the, like, unified memory ecosystem stuff.

• 1:35:02Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm glad you don't have any big personal things around the studio. We have to do anytime soon. That will take up weeks.

• 1:35:07Speaker 03

  Yeah. That'll, yeah, well, we'll get to that.

• 1:35:11David Imel?

  Are you gonna have Christmas, Marques?

• 1:35:13Speaker 03

  Um, you know what? I'm hoping by December, when things are a little bit more slowed down.

• 1:35:18David Imel?

  No, my guy, tomorrow is November.

• 1:35:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, at this point, December doesn't have to settle down. You were just listing videos that are coming out in December.

• 1:35:26Speaker 03

  I just listed a whole bunch of things. If they came out today, they'd be right on time. So, yeah, we'll.

• 1:35:30David Imel?

  In November, December.

• 1:35:31Speaker 03

  Well, Techember, I guess, will be a.

• 1:35:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Tech. No, I don't like that one. That's where we stop.

• 1:35:35Speaker 03

  See, always, you hate it when I say the name, but it's like, it's still gonna happen. The feeling will still be real.

• 1:35:41David Imel?

  This is the biggest Techtober since like maybe 2018, so.

• 1:35:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:35:45David Imel?

  It's insane. It's more like Appletober, I guess. Apple Turntober.

• 1:35:48Speaker 05

  Adam, come home.

• 1:35:50Andrew Manganelli?

  I can't wait till Adam's back.

• 1:35:51Speaker 03

  He's right there.

• 1:35:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. How dare you?

• 1:35:53David Imel?

  Where'd Andrew go?

• 1:35:53Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, um.

• 1:35:55Speaker 03

  You're doing great, sweetie. There you go. Well, stay tuned for all the reviews, of course. Get subscribed if you haven't already to see the stuff when it comes out. And I think it's time for one more batch of trivia.

• 1:36:06Andrew Manganelli?

  I wasn't sure if you were doing the full outro or not there.

• 1:36:09Speaker 03

  Nah.

• 1:36:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Just wondering if we've made it that far.

• 1:36:11Speaker 03

  Just one more little batch.

• 1:36:13David Imel?

  I like the crows.

• 1:36:13Andrew Manganelli?

  I do really like the crow.

• 1:36:15Speaker 03

  The bell tolls as well.

• 1:36:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Thank you.

• 1:36:17David Imel?

  Has the bell tolls.

• 1:36:19Speaker 02

  All right, I wanna try a new format because unlike Apple, we actually will be experimenting, trying to make things better. So, um, I don't know if you guys follow VC, Silicon Valley.

• 1:36:31David Imel?

  Twitter.

• 1:36:32Speaker 02

  Nightmare.

• 1:36:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Try not to.

• 1:36:33Speaker 02

  Nightmare news. Um, a big company just came out of stealth, announced themselves with $200 million valuation from their first round. The company is called Warhound.

• 1:36:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh my god. Hmm, that sounds like a mobile game.

• 1:36:47Speaker 02

  It does sound like it.

• 1:36:48Speaker 03

  It really does.

• 1:36:50David Imel?

  War Thunder.

• 1:36:51Speaker 02

  Warhound makes dogs.

• 1:36:57David Imel?

  Wait.

• 1:36:58Speaker 03

  This better not be a Boston Dynamics type.

• 1:37:00Speaker 02

  These, no, these are, these are living dogs.

• 1:37:02Andrew Manganelli?

  That's what I was actually worried about.

• 1:37:05Speaker 02

  They're making dogs.

• 1:37:06Speaker 03

  Oh, that's worse.

• 1:37:06David Imel?

  You mean they've.

• 1:37:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, that was like so much worse.

• 1:37:09Speaker 02

  But, but, but these are not normal dogs. And so when we answer this question at the end of the episode, I wanna go around the room, round robin style, and I want you to, you're gonna guess until all three of the things that make these dogs special are out in the open.

• 1:37:26Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:37:27Speaker 02

  Instead of having you guys each write three answers, I think it'll be more fun. We'll do a little round robin, we'll do a little game. Um, don't Google it.

• 1:37:34Andrew Manganelli?

  I, I think we know that at this part.

• 1:37:36Speaker 02

  It's very confusing to talk about because when the company got announced, they sent out a press release that Palmer Lucky and another guy founded this company. And then a bunch of articles got written that said Palmer Lucky and this other guy founded this company. And ever since then, Palmer Lucky has been going everywhere he can on the internet to be like, I didn't found this company, I'm not an owner, I'm not involved with it at all. Uh, even though the press release does say, and so the, the, what they're, the official line is that the company wants people to say is Palmer Lucky co-created the company, but he's not involved with day-to-day, nor is he invested in it, nor is he a founder. He's just one of two co-creators.

• 1:38:21David Imel?

  What does that mean?

• 1:38:22Speaker 02

  It means nothing. We'll be right back.

• 1:38:25David Imel?

  What was the question even?

• 1:38:37Speaker 03

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from, but when that context is scattered across tools and threads and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying blind. That's a problem that Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all the pieces together from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more, so nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot. Assign them work directly or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got

• 1:39:20Speaker 03

  decided and by who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com. That's J-I-R-A dot com. Support for the show comes from Gusto. When you started your small business, I'm sure you were dreaming of the day where you'd run your first payroll. No? Yeah, obviously not, but you have better things to be doing. Your payroll, though, still needs to get done. The good news is Gusto is here to help. Gusto is online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. It's all-in-one, remote-friendly, and incredibly easy to use, so you can pay, hire, onboard, and support your team from anywhere. Their services include automatic payroll tax filing, simple direct deposits, health benefits, commuter benefits, worker comp, 401K, you name it. Gusto makes it simple and has options for nearly every budget.

• 1:40:05Speaker 03

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• 1:40:32Speaker 02

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• 1:41:10David Imel?

  All right, welcome back. This last piece of show is not news, but it's something we've been thinking about talking about for a couple of weeks now. Ellis Ellis has gotten kind of deep into it.

• 1:41:20Speaker 02

  I have.

• 1:41:20David Imel?

  We want to hear it from.

• 1:41:21Speaker 02

  Let's just get into it, guys. As you know, I hate my LG TV so much. When I got it, I loved it. And and I've just learned new and more reasons to hate it over the course of owning it. And all of those reasons have nothing to do with the quality of the panel, which is fantastic.

• 1:41:39Speaker 02

  Anyone who owns a smart TV knows that these things are just slow, like they're they're the slowest and laggiest and most sluggish pieces of modern technology in our lives. What what is what could possibly be slower?

• 1:41:54David Imel?

  Android Auto.

• 1:41:55Speaker 02

  There's no way. When I hit the settings button on my LG TV, it takes over seven seconds for the settings menu to come up.

• 1:42:01David Imel?

  Smart toaster.

• 1:42:01Andrew Manganelli?

  My Nest Hub is pretty close.

• 1:42:03Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:42:04Andrew Manganelli?

  It's really bad, but that's because Google probably killed it and I still just don't. But yes, we I agree.

• 1:42:09David Imel?

  60 hertz.

• 1:42:09Andrew Manganelli?

  These are really annoying.

• 1:42:11Speaker 02

  Anyway.

• 1:42:11David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:13Speaker 02

  The other thing is that they're not particularly customized. There's just a bunch that's like, there's ads. And so, starting about a week ago, some really, actually it's a few weeks ago at this point, some really smart person that a lot of Android TVs, not all Android TVs, but a lot of Android TVs. You can get root access using this thing called ADB, the Android debug bridge, which is this really clever thing someone in the Android product project. I don't know if it predates Google or not, but they built into this whole Android ecosystem where you can get root access to a device with nothing but another device that's on the same network. So if you want to like monkey around in your Android phone or Android devices, root source code, whatever, in the firmware, you can do it from a laptop sitting on a couch. You don't need to like get up.

• 1:42:59Speaker 02

  So this means for the first time, you could actually root your TV and use something like Claude code Claude code or your your own brain, if you got one of those. But I I do not to start cleaning up your TV and making it run faster. And most, there aren't a lot of like Android native TVs. I can't remember if Roku is based on Android. I don't think it is. So very quickly, Samsung was the first to fall because people realized that Samsung has their own debug bridge called SDB that works on Tyson TV. So people immediately got into Tyson TVs.

• 1:43:35David Imel?

  Tyson. Yeah, you remember that?

• 1:43:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Tyson.

• 1:43:38Speaker 02

  Are they not Tyson anymore? Are they?

• 1:43:40David Imel?

  No, they I remember they switched to Tyson.

• 1:43:43Speaker 02

  And not only were people making lots of cool interfaces for their TVs and like.

• 1:43:52Speaker 02

  The first thing people were doing was making a fun Apple TV style interface or whatever style interface they wanted. And then going through the the root directory and just deleting all the programs that they knew they were never going to use. And I'm not talking about apps. I'm talking about the background processes and data trackers and stuff like that that are significantly slowing down the TV. And the things people have found inside these TVs are so shocking. Like, like, I know we always joke about like your TV is spying on you and stuff, but the degree to which your TV is spying on you is so insane.

• 1:44:32Speaker 02

  To the point where it's now pretty believable to me at least that even if Instagram, you know, they're always saying like, we're not, your phone's not listening to you like we don't do that. Your TV is like 100%. There is. There is one program someone found where if you disable or physically remove all of the microphones on your Samsung TV, of which there are many, some of, you know.

• 1:44:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:55Speaker 02

  You it will go on the network, find an unencrypted device with a microphone on your network and start listening from there and pulling that data in.

• 1:45:05David Imel?

  An unencrypted.

• 1:45:06Speaker 02

  So if you have a soundbar that has a microphone built in for Alexa that's not protected, like your phone's microphone has a layer, a bunch of layers of security. So you can't just tap into that.

• 1:45:16David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:16Speaker 02

  If you have a soundbar with or an Alexa Echo Dot or something like that with a microphone that's not protected in any meaningful way, your TV will just be like, I'm listening from there now.

• 1:45:25David Imel?

  Whoa.

• 1:45:26Speaker 02

  That's on top of the twice a second screenshots that your TV is taking. There's, I'm not going to get into it, especially because a lot of this stuff is still only slightly confirmed. And a lot of the stuff is also there's like some plausible reason.

• 1:45:43Andrew Manganelli?

  There's always some one.

• 1:45:44Speaker 02

  Why Samsung, like, for example, on a lot of these Tyson TVs, there's remote access software built in.

• 1:45:53Speaker 02

  Maybe it's so that if your TV is broken, tech support can take control of your TV and see your screen and and do. Why is there remote? Anyway, it's been very fun to see. Soon after, WebOS, which is LG's Linux based TV operating system, also got cracked. People are making lots of fun Xbox style, PlayStation style interfaces for that. They're also finding a horrifying amount of spyware on it. Now, this whole world of people on Twitter have gotten so deep into it that you barely need to root your TV anymore to actually get in there and like uninstall this stuff. If you're thinking about doing this, I would still say think twice about it.

• 1:46:35Speaker 02

  Like, the best thing you could do is probably air gap your TV because as soon as you're rooting around in your TV, there's nothing stopping you from accidentally deleting something that your TV needs to.

• 1:46:46David Imel?

  System 32.

• 1:46:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:47David Imel?

  And like, it's huge.

• 1:46:49Speaker 02

  I don't know how to flash a TV with the most up to date for, you know what I mean?

• 1:46:53David Imel?

  Have Claude do it.

• 1:46:55Speaker 02

  That's how that's how most people are doing it is like, and and Claude has gotten so good at reasoning not to glaze them or whatever, that you can kind of just be like, Claude, do this and it'll install ADB, get into your TV like you don't even really have to do another step.

• 1:47:11Andrew Manganelli?

  And then brick it and be like, you're totally right. I shouldn't have.

• 1:47:15David Imel?

  You're absolutely right.

• 1:47:16Speaker 03

  You have every right to be angry.

• 1:47:18David Imel?

  I did mess that up.

• 1:47:19Speaker 02

  And it's been a really interesting sort of thing for me to witness because about a month ago, I decided I was so fed up with my LG TV and how much it was spying on me and how much like it was, oh, yeah. Do like the LG TVs do this insane thing where they they keep as part of your customer data that they sell. They keep track of every device that you own by constantly sweeping your network for new MAC addresses. And then it's a whole thing.

• 1:47:50Andrew Manganelli?

  I must be so confused in your apartment.

• 1:47:52Speaker 02

  I was just so annoyed of like doing these network sweeps and seeing devices on my network do weird things and seeing my internet speed slow down all the time. And then eventually just realizing it was my TV making my entire apartment worse. So my solution was to air gap my TV, pull an old Windows computer out of the under my bed and build my own browser based streaming box, which I put so many hours into, like an embarrassing amount of time. I even built my own persistent 3D environment that acts as the menu screen in Blender. And then I'm rendering the whole thing in 3GS in like a brave kiosk instance. So it's like this beautiful windowed windowless thing.

• 1:48:37Speaker 02

  And when you go around the menu, the camera and like, like real time adjusts and flies to the next menu. It's beautiful.

• 1:48:45Speaker 05

  He showed us a little demo of this and I want to say in the best way possible reminds me of like the DVD bonus features screen where you're like going through the menu.

• 1:48:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:54Speaker 05

  It's like a very like retro design.

• 1:48:56Speaker 02

  It's very, very fun. And the other thing that I did that I'm really, really proud of is I got a Wi-Fi enabled IR blaster that can control my stereo and my CD player and I could do that for my TV. Now I'm going to like share all of this work when it's like fully done and ready to be shared with people. Anyway, so just imagine how annoying it was for me building this entire thing on Windows, putting all this effort into it. And then one day people being like, oh, you can just wipe it off your TV, whatever. I still don't think I'm going to do it just because my TV isn't connected to the internet right now. So it's, everything has gotten better and I just don't trust myself not to completely destroy my TV.

• 1:49:38Speaker 02

  But yeah, if you do have a smart TV, just know unimaginable surveillance is being done on you in ways that that shock even me, even the most pessimistic

• 1:49:53Speaker 02

  person ever.

• 1:49:54David Imel?

  Yeah. Yeah, I saw a lot of people. There was one person that made their TV OS make look like the Wii.

• 1:50:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:02David Imel?

  Menu system and they made it so they could control it with their Wii controller as well.

• 1:50:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:50:07David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:07Speaker 02

  Also.

• 1:50:09David Imel?

  I love how easy it is to hack hardware now. It's amazing.

• 1:50:12Speaker 02

  It's it's, I know, it's gotten so.

• 1:50:13David Imel?

  One of the most fun things about vibe coding is that you can just hack hardware. Like someone put CarPlay on the back of the Hassabat X2 D Mark II.

• 1:50:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Really?

• 1:50:24Speaker 02

  There is something to be said that like, we're very quickly approaching the point where you don't need to use anyone's included app.

• 1:50:31David Imel?

  Which is so interesting.

• 1:50:32Speaker 02

  It's amazing.

• 1:50:33David Imel?

  I'm like, something I've been thinking about a lot is like, yesterday, I have a group chat of photographer people. And someone like, we've been asking Fujifilm to add support for 65 by 24 aspect ratio on their cameras for a long time. It's the Xpan TX1 aspect ratio. Anyway, and yesterday someone released like custom firmware for the Fujifilm X70 that just adds that and also adds a like better autofocus and a bunch of random stuff. And what a company is like companies releasing firmware updates now, it's kind of moot because the community updates are going to be way better than whatever the company spends like a year building.

• 1:51:12Speaker 02

  I saw a bunch of people with this TV thing ditching Google Home because so many of these smart home like IoT devices have like data, data sheets and stuff online and and open protocols or someone cracked them at some point.

• 1:51:28David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:28Speaker 02

  Repo and GitHub. And so people have just put their entire lights, AC, everything on their TV.

• 1:51:37Speaker 02

  And they can just bypass the entire Google Home. Like you don't need any of these built in apps anymore.

• 1:51:42David Imel?

  Wow.

• 1:51:43Speaker 02

  I'm sure that's not secure at all.

• 1:51:45Andrew Manganelli?

  It's more of the TV would need to be on, correct?

• 1:51:48Speaker 02

  Where like. TV is on. It never, smart TVs never turn off.

• 1:51:52Andrew Manganelli?

  So it can do, it can turn my lights off when it's off?

• 1:51:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 1:51:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:58David Imel?

  TV too high.

• 1:51:59Speaker 02

  That is that these TV like, it does make sense. I think I was reading that like Vizio loses about $6 million a year selling TVs, but they make about $100 million a year or something like that, operating TVs. Because they're able to sell so much of this data at such a high price. Um, I'm sorry, I'm just gonna go off the, it's so messed up. It's like so unbelievable. That, and it's like, it's illegal everywhere else.

• 1:52:30David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:30Speaker 02

  Like, we're the only country where they can just do this to you.

• 1:52:35David Imel?

  Yeah. There's a really good article on Tech Dirt from Mike Masnick about how even though vibe coding is like very controversial, obviously, because literally everything that makes LLMs is completely stolen and whatever.

• 1:52:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:52:50David Imel?

  It also enables kind of like a revolution against these giant companies because we can just strip out all of the [__] that they, you know, sell us and make us use without asking and all stuff like that. Very interesting point. Um, so I don't know. It's, it's gonna be really interesting to see how firmware moves in the future.

• 1:53:11Speaker 02

  I think the bigger, the bigger thing is now that Claude is really, really good at decompiling. There's like this brick wall that has been torn down, you know? It used to be if you developed like a kickass algorithm for something. You could bury it in source code and you could sell an app and no one would be able to actually get the algorithm without doing a full reverse.

• 1:53:33David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:34Speaker 02

  Whereas now, I've been seeing a lot of plugin manufacturers be like, are the, the algorithm that gives our audio plugin a specific sound, Claude can just rip out of the.

• 1:53:46David Imel?

  It's insane. Yeah, it's insane because like reverse engineering was one of the hardest things and most time consuming things you could possibly do. And that was sort of the moat that stopped people from even doing it because it took so many resources and so much time. And now these agents will just run endlessly until they completely decompile and everything. People are decompiling every video game ever made and just making them free.

• 1:54:09Andrew Manganelli?

  They're just.

• 1:54:09David Imel?

  Cause it's, it's, it's, well, it's legal to reverse engineer things.

• 1:54:13Speaker 02

  But it's not clear if it's like, like it.

• 1:54:16David Imel?

  To distribute.

• 1:54:17Speaker 02

  Sort of assume that would take so many hours.

• 1:54:20David Imel?

  Something, I mean, I, one thing I did really like, I saw someone reverse engineered Super Smash Bros. Melee and decompiled it. And so now they're just making like crazy melee stuff where like in Vision Pro, you can play melee. There was one where you can play melee, but the, um, the platform that you fight on is your Mac OS dock and you just play it on Mac OS. And so you play melee on your wallpaper and it's just so.

• 1:54:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Someone, uh, decompiled and re-architected and put up Sim Golf in a.

• 1:54:50Speaker 02

  No way.

• 1:54:51Andrew Manganelli?

  In the browser. Yeah.

• 1:54:52Speaker 02

  Marquez, have you seen all the crazy video game mashups people have been making?

• 1:54:55David Imel?

  Oh, no.

• 1:54:57Speaker 02

  They'll decompile like Skate 3, Call of Duty, Minecraft and have them all run in the same environment.

• 1:55:03David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:03Speaker 02

  You can like drive a little tiny Mario Kart around the feet of all the zombies while your friend does a sick kickflip above you. And it's all the actual physics and stuff of those games.

• 1:55:14Andrew Manganelli?

  This just feels like.

• 1:55:15David Imel?

  Feels like Garry's Mod 2.

• 1:55:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes.

• 1:55:19David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:20Speaker 02

  That's enough.

• 1:55:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Alright, let's do it.

• 1:55:21David Imel?

  Crazy future. Okay.

• 1:55:22Speaker 02

  Thanks for entertaining my, my weird TV thing, everybody.

• 1:55:26David Imel?

  TV too high.

• 1:55:26Speaker 02

  TV, TV to listen to you all the time, man. It's not cool.

• 1:55:30David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:31Speaker 02

  I don't appreciate you. Life's good? No. Life's bad.

• 1:55:36David Imel?

  Unless you turn it into the Wii, uh, Wii Shop and then life's good again.

• 1:55:44David Imel?

  Yeah. Alright, read us those questions, my friends, Lord, my, my Lord.

• 1:55:49Andrew Manganelli?

  My Lord. Pick me, my Lord. Pick me.

• 1:55:52David Imel?

  The muffin man.

• 1:55:53Andrew Manganelli?

  The muffin man?

• 1:55:55David Imel?

  The muffin man! Yes, I know the muffin man. Who lives on Drury Lane? She's married to the muffin man. The muffin man?

• 1:56:04Andrew Manganelli?

  The muffin man!

• 1:56:05Speaker 02

  You can't tell probably from the camera angle. I made this myself.

• 1:56:08Andrew Manganelli?

  It's really, it is really good.

• 1:56:10Speaker 02

  I cut out these buttons. I sewed them. These are not fabric.

• 1:56:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Did you stand up? Cause you have like, it's not just the buttons. It's the like, the frosting too. Yeah.

• 1:56:18David Imel?

  Pretty good. Gingy, as they call him.

• 1:56:22Andrew Manganelli?

  That's good stuff.

• 1:56:23David Imel?

  Be good.

• 1:56:25Andrew Manganelli?

  I also made this myself.

• 1:56:28David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:29Speaker 02

  Alright, read us those questions, my friends.

• 1:56:32Speaker 05

  Alright, here we go.

• 1:56:33David Imel?

  My Lord.

• 1:56:35Speaker 05

  Alright, lords and ladies. So, Google is the grim reaper of technology and they officially announced Chrome OS's demise. So with the.

• 1:56:46Speaker 05

  The closest without going over, what year will Chrome OS be killed?

• 1:56:53Andrew Manganelli?

  This is.

• 1:56:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Hard. I feel like the safe bet is just to say this year. To not go over because like, it could be gone by December. Are we guessing a month?

• 1:57:07David Imel?

  They could also say something and then.

• 1:57:09Speaker 05

  I feel like I want to give them a bonus point if they get the right month, just for fun. How do you feel?

• 1:57:16Speaker 02

  Do you?

• 1:57:22David Imel?

  Google doesn't really commit to things usually for that long, so.

• 1:57:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, are you saying that as they don't commit to things for that long or do they even commit to committing to?

• 1:57:31David Imel?

  Well, sometimes they'll be like, they'll be like Pixel will get seven years of OS updates and you're like, wow, so Pixel's still gonna exist in seven years? And you're like, I guess so.

• 1:57:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, that was, what was the Google one that was like, if you get this, you get a free upgrade for your phone?

• 1:57:46David Imel?

  Google one still exists. It's the Pixel upgrade plan that they cut after a year.

• 1:57:51Speaker 05

  Alright, what do we got? David, what'd you say?

• 1:57:53David Imel?

  2029.

• 1:57:55Speaker 05

  What'd you say?

• 1:57:56Andrew Manganelli?

  I said 2028, December.

• 1:58:00David Imel?

  And I said 2029, December.

• 1:58:02Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:58:05David Imel?

  You said month if you feel like it.

• 1:58:06Speaker 02

  Yes, we do.

• 1:58:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:58:07David Imel?

  You just said if you feel like it.

• 1:58:09Speaker 02

  Should we give them a tie or should we make David pick a month to decide the winner?

• 1:58:13Speaker 05

  I think they should pick a month.

• 1:58:14Speaker 02

  Alright, David, you have to pick a month.

• 1:58:17David Imel?

  Well, now he's not gonna say December. March.

• 1:58:22Speaker 02

  I left the fader down.

• 1:58:23Andrew Manganelli?

  I saw the red though. Does that mean it was January? Which means they both went over, which means I won?

• 1:58:27Speaker 02

  No, unfortunately, none of you went over. The correct answer was June of 2034.

• 1:58:32David Imel?

  Oh.

• 1:58:33Speaker 02

  Meaning Marquez's David.

• 1:58:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Why would they even say that out loud?

• 1:58:37Speaker 02

  Meaning Marquez's December of 2029 is the closest answer, giving him.

• 1:58:43David Imel?

  2034 is so far away that Google might not even exist by then.

• 1:58:47Andrew Manganelli?

  There's not, there's no point in saying that.

• 1:58:49David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Why would they say, we're getting rid of it in.

• 1:58:52David Imel?

  Eight years from now.

• 1:58:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:54Speaker 05

  It is a pretty crazy heads up. It's pretty early.

• 1:58:56David Imel?

  That is remarkably nice of them.

• 1:58:58Andrew Manganelli?

  They're definitely gonna get rid of it before then. I would bet. And I want you to go back to the points and I want to know.

• 1:59:05David Imel?

  That's a good bet. So you, you should make that bet and then just like set a timer or whatever for like December 2034 or whatever it is. Yeah. Because I have a timer set for January 1st, 2027 and it says Cyber Cab. So, you can figure out the rest of that.

• 1:59:23Andrew Manganelli?

  All the AI people think we're gonna be dead before 2034, so.

• 1:59:27David Imel?

  Which dies first, Chrome OS or humanity? That's the bet I'm taking.

• 1:59:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, now this is a verbal?

• 1:59:34David Imel?

  This is the.

• 1:59:34Speaker 02

  This is a verbal one. Yeah, it's not a whiteboard one. So here's what we're gonna do. I'm gonna ask the question one more time and then we're gonna go around the room. There are three things that make these dogs.

• 1:59:42David Imel?

  Oh, God.

• 1:59:43Speaker 02

  Interesting. And we're just gonna keep going until you get it. Um, or not, maybe none of you will get it and you'll get stumped and this will become not fun, but I think it will be fun. So guys.

• 1:59:52David Imel?

  Can't believe they're doing this.

• 1:59:53Speaker 02

  A startup called Warhound has come out of stealth mode last week. They're valued at $200 million and they make dogs, but not normal dogs. What makes these dogs not normal?

• 2:00:09Andrew Manganelli?

  And just, you confirm they're not robots, right?

• 2:00:11Speaker 02

  They're not robots. They're not robots.

• 2:00:14David Imel?

  And when you say makes the dogs, you mean breeds the dogs?

• 2:00:19Speaker 02

  I didn't use that word, but maybe that is a way you could think about it. Marquez, I'm gonna let you make the first guess and then we'll go Marques, Andrew, David, Marques, Andrew, David.

• 2:00:30David Imel?

  Um, Warhounds as in W A R?

• 2:00:33Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:00:34David Imel?

  Warhounds.

• 2:00:35Speaker 02

  What three things make these dogs not like other dogs?

• 2:00:38David Imel?

  They have an incredible magnified sense of smell.

• 2:00:45David Imel?

  Something I thought.

• 2:00:45Speaker 02

  I'm looking for more broad, broad strokes. Andrew, you wanna give me?

• 2:00:47Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm broader.

• 2:00:48Speaker 02

  Broader.

• 2:00:49Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know if you'll answer this question, but are these, um, enhanced dog traits or do they have third-party accessories? Guns is what I'm trying to say.

• 2:01:00Speaker 02

  What do you mean by third-party accessories?

• 2:01:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Could a normal dog grow this outside of?

• 2:01:05David Imel?

  Grow it?

• 2:01:06Andrew Manganelli?

  A version of it.

• 2:01:07Speaker 02

  They, a normal dog.

• 2:01:08Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm still gonna say guns and just pass my turn.

• 2:01:10Speaker 02

  They haven't said guns specifically, but you're, you're barking up the right tree.

• 2:01:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 2:01:17Speaker 02

  And David, you wanna take a guess?

• 2:01:19David Imel?

  Um.

• 2:01:20Speaker 03

  Weapons? Wait, wait. Barking up the right tree, is that a hint? Just, or is it a?

• 2:01:26Speaker 02

  Andrew, I think I'll give you the point. One of the things that makes these dogs unique is they will have, and this is in exact quote, cybernetic augments.

• 2:01:33Speaker 03

  What the, what does that mean?

• 2:01:36Andrew Manganelli?

  What does that mean?

• 2:01:36Speaker 02

  Andoril is going to be making smart dog helmets and gear that get that plugged directly into the dog's brain somehow. Sort of like Neuralink Terminator dogs.

• 2:01:48Speaker 03

  What?

• 2:01:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. Mm-hmm. There's two more things that make these dogs not like other dogs.

• 2:01:53Speaker 03

  Do they have, um, like metal bones or something?

• 2:01:56Speaker 02

  I think that's part of the cybernetic augments, but I'm not sure.

• 2:01:59Speaker 03

  Oh, okay. Are they more aggressive?

• 2:02:01Speaker 02

  Here, here, let's do this one. The dogs will not be made in a factory, right?

• 2:02:07Speaker 03

  They'll be test tubes.

• 2:02:08Speaker 02

  They won't be bred in a traditional sense either, though.

• 2:02:12Speaker 03

  Will they be butter?

• 2:02:13Speaker 02

  They will be.

• 2:02:15Speaker 03

  Cloned.

• 2:02:16Speaker 02

  They will be cloned, Marquez. That's very good. They're first going to breed the perfect dog and then clone.

• 2:02:21Speaker 03

  Are you kidding me?

• 2:02:23Speaker 02

  I told you this is a spooky question.

• 2:02:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Westminster Dog Show is gonna get a lot more dark there when they start spying the winners off of that.

• 2:02:29Speaker 02

  And you know, honestly, the third one we kind of got, they will be genetically modified before they're.

• 2:02:33Speaker 03

  We need like an international body that says this is not okay.

• 2:02:38Andrew Manganelli?

  PETA is.

• 2:02:41Speaker 03

  We made space law that says you can't launch a nuke off of an orbital body. Can we please say that you can't launch a vicious cybernetic attack dog out of a test tube?

• 2:02:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Why does it have to be a real dog? Why can't it be a robot dog?

• 2:02:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, why isn't it a robot dog?

• 2:02:54Andrew Manganelli?

  It feels like it is a robot dog.

• 2:02:55Speaker 03

  Why would they use real dogs for this?

• 2:02:57Speaker 02

  I do.

• 2:02:58Speaker 03

  Spot.

• 2:03:00Speaker 02

  I, I hope this question wasn't too scary for our.

• 2:03:02Speaker 03

  It's messed up.

• 2:03:03Speaker 02

  Maybe I, maybe I took the Halloween too, too literally. Didn't you find an article that like the Humane Society?

• 2:03:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Are we allowed, we're allowed to look it up now, right?

• 2:03:11Speaker 05

  So, so, okay, look at the website. This is crazy. Um, it has AI slop of the dogs wearing helmets and like weird, probably guns.

• 2:03:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Proud to serve, built for victory.

• 2:03:22Speaker 05

  Certified by the American Humane Society. What the does that mean?

• 2:03:26Speaker 03

  Makes them look all cute.

• 2:03:27Andrew Manganelli?

  This is the grown up Paw Patrol.

• 2:03:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:03:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, it also has like three sentences.

• 2:03:33Speaker 03

  What was the third thing?

• 2:03:34Speaker 02

  It was, uh, cybernetic augments, genetic modification, and they are clones of one another.

• 2:03:40Speaker 03

  Genetic modification.

• 2:03:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Sorry.

• 2:03:42Speaker 05

  GMO dogs.

• 2:03:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Mariah, I cut you off by the certified by the American Humane Society is?

• 2:03:47Speaker 03

  What?

• 2:03:48Andrew Manganelli?

  That is definitely.

• 2:03:49Speaker 05

  I don't say that.

• 2:03:50Speaker 03

  That's true. There's like literally no way that's true.

• 2:03:53Speaker 05

  That doesn't mean anything.

• 2:03:54Andrew Manganelli?

  There's nothing on this website at all, except for just.

• 2:03:57Speaker 03

  Questions than answers here. How are they clones if they're different colors?

• 2:04:01Speaker 05

  There's a Wired article asking, um, one of the co-creators, Lam, so no dogs with lasers? And he says, quote, "I can't comment on what Andoril plans."

• 2:04:11Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:04:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Just want dogs with freaking laser beams on their heads. All right, well, okay, cool. Hopefully this never happens.

• 2:04:20Speaker 03

  I got a point, though.

• 2:04:23Speaker 03

  I got two points. How do you feel about that point? Look, I'll take the points I can get, man. I'll take the points I can get. Wow. Well, by the time you listen to this, it will be still Techtober, uh, but next month will be, I'm just gonna keep trying it, Techember. And it's gonna be a very busy one and it's gonna be very exciting. So make sure you get subscribed if you haven't already, because all those videos and all those thoughts and all those tech things that I talked about, they would all be right on time if they came out tomorrow. So they might as well be right on the way. So, see you there. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. Later.

• 2:04:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Boo. What's the thing? Make smart choices.

• 2:05:00Speaker 03

  Goodbye.

• 2:05:04Speaker 03

  Don't let your pixels die, my friends.

• 2:05:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Waveform is produced by Mariah Zank, Ellis Rovin, Adam Molina.

• 2:05:11Speaker 02

  Waveform is produced by Lord Farquhar, the Gingerbread Man, and Adam Molina.

• 2:05:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Uh, we are a partner with Vox Media Podcast Network and our traction music is created by Vain, so.

• 2:05:22Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 2:05:35Speaker 02

  New and exclusive holiday decor just launched online at the Home Depot. Check out the viral Grand Duchess collection with smart holiday lights you can control from your phone. Easily customize the twinkle across trees, wreaths, and garlands to match your holiday vibe.

• 2:05:53Speaker 02

  Create stunning light effects, then switch it up with the tap of your fingers. Even the man in red will be impressed. Shop the holiday decor you want, online only, at homedepot.com. Welcome to the 50th Hunger Games. Witness the beginning of the revolution. Hey Mitch, you've been trying to take down these games from the start. Filmed for IMAX. Make them remember you. The Hunger Games: Sunrise on the Reaping, November 20th, rated PG-13.