Vision Pros Live Podcast
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What's your vision? Devin Sizemore. Podcast Session 2.
2,684 words · 3 speakers
What defines a great leader?
Yeah, first, thanks for having me back. We had such a good conversation. Glad we get to continue it. Um, what defines a good leader? I I love the that visual that everyone's seen, the kind of meme where, you know, the leader is behind with the whip whipping people to try to motivate them to move forward versus the leader being out front with a rope over their shoulder and like pulling and leading the team. And so for me, I think that sums up my approach to leadership. Like, you have to be out front. You have to be setting the course. You have to be very clear in where you're going with the company, what metrics matter, what our goal is, what our why is. And it has to be no questions about that. Um, if there's questions about that,
then the team can't follow you. Um, and then the second thing I would say is we have to create the ownership mentality in the company, right? Every role needs to have a co-created metric where you're not only leading by example, but you're co-creating the leadership metrics with every one of your team members to create that mutual buy-in.
Yeah, um, tell me more about that. Why do you think that? Why? What experiences or what have you gained? Or what have you learned through a journey that that you have these uh uh thoughts?
Yeah, so I've managed thousands of employees and probably recruited hundreds. Um, and what I found is there's this weird approach to management, leadership and hiring team members where there's like the hierarchy, right? Of like, I'm the boss and you report to me. And I would say that's positional management, positional leadership, which we see a lot in in low-level jobs and a lot in corporate America. And we got to remember that the people we're hiring, the people we're working with, our team are people. Like, these are our human beings, right, that we are vested in because we're empowering them to grow and do something amazing. We're, we're paying them like a fair wage so that they can, you know, support their family. And then they're giving us time and talent to the company.
And that's a mutual relationship that is not a one-sided relationship. And so I like to say, hey, here's where we're going as a company in the metrics. And then I love the co-creation process because it creates mutual accountability. Hey, based on your role, here's the things that I'm holding you accountable to, right? What else do you think I should hold you accountable to? Do you agree that the things I'm holding you accountable to are inside of your role and scope? And are things that are inside of your job? And if they're not, let's either adjust your job description, maybe the pay? Or let's adjust and have clear expectations. Because when there's misaligned expectations, that's where all the conflict comes from, right? I don't think I'm getting paid fairly. I think I'm doing too much outside of scope.
And now there's this tension and I don't want that. Like, I want to be a mutual team where you're excited to show up and work. You understand what I'm going to hold you accountable to. And you understand what to hold me accountable to, what I agree to provide you from a training, mentorship, leadership standpoint as well.
Yeah. Um, I like that the, the focus is on, on a mutual relationship instead of one-sided. Hey, do this, do this, this, this, this is what we need from you. Um, so thank you for sharing that. Um, tell me more, though.
Why the analogy of, of leading from front? Um, I mean, I, I remember those pictures that you're talking about. One of them is the boss who is sitting on a, sitting on the, like a weight carrying machine. And then the employees are pulling him, right? And then the other one's a leader where he's the one who pulling in with the employees at the same time. And a lot of times we also see a different perspective where employees are sitting on and the, then the leader is pulling everyone together. Right? And those, that's also not a healthy scenario. That's also not a healthy conflict area. So what would you say, what lessons have you learned throughout your leadership experiences?
Or maybe as an employee or as a recruiter that you'd like to share with the audience?
Yeah, so it's so fun. This is such a fun topic because I think a lot of people do mess this up. So one thing I would say is the open door policy. That's like a cliche saying, right? Like we have to have open conversation. I like to call it an open office policy. So this is something I do with all my teams and I think it's very uncomfortable for people at first, but I think it has huge results. So if I have a team member come to me and say something about another team member and they say, hey, so and so did something. Doesn't matter if it's very finite, right? Like they left earlier, they did something that they felt wasn't equal to what they bring to the table
or something major, right? Like, hey, they cussed out a client or there was friction or they messed up their job. The first thing I do, I said, that's so great. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. Why don't you go grab them for me and let's meet in the conference room? And I bring both parties in the conference room and we have a conversation. Hey, Jane, go ahead and just tell me what you were saying. You know, again, this is a safe place. We're not going to yell and scream. Let's just figure out what's going on and give them a chance to voice. And then I can look at the other part and go, hey, you know, this was brought up and instead of going around everyone's back and playing the game of telephone, like, what's your perspective, right? Well, because there's always two sides to a story, right? And I want the team to understand that, right? Like you're only seeing it from your perspective.
Let's make sure we get their opinion and then let's have a conversation, right? Is there a lesson learned? Is there something that we can adjust as a company? Is there a positional lesson learned? So is there something we could train on from a personality standpoint? And then can both parties walk away feeling like they were heard, feeling like they were listened to and that there's clear action so that there's no friction and no weird tension left? And so this open office policy is something I've had in all of my companies. And when people go through it the first time, they're like, well, wait a second. Like I didn't want to be put on the spot. It's like, but why not? Like if you have something to say, let's create the conversation and let's streamline it because I don't want to waste your time. I don't want to waste their time. And I definitely don't need the backdoor conversations.
And so that's one thing I would share with people is like to eliminate all the backend noise is just to have these very clear, quick conversations. Um, and I find that that leads teams amazing. The other thing I would say is if you're holding people accountable accountable to like clocking in and clocking out and not the actual production metrics of their position, that that's such a micro managing mindset, even in retail and I had a retail business. It was never like, oh, you clocked in one minute late. It's like, you know, first I gotta show up with curiosity like, hey, I noticed you were a minute late. Like, is everything okay? Like, I want to ask genuinely. And then I want to hold them accountable to the metrics. Like, well, did you still open on time? You did. Oh, okay, cool. Like, no worries that you clocked in a minute late. You were still open on time.
Everything was done. Like, I just want to make sure you understand, like, I'm aware of it. I just want to make sure you're okay. Again, open, clear communication.
So the, the conversation about, uh, hey, let's meet in the coffee room and you can tell me all about it. Um, I have, I have a perspective on that. I want, I want you to answer that. How many times has that, if it has even backfired where from that point onwards, that employee never even came to say anything? Or has that not happened at all?
Yeah, it never backfires because I never let anyone keep anything under the rug. Um, and I'm very transparent about that as a leader. Like, hey, we are, we're not here for drama, right? This is my mission, vision and values. This is where I'm going as a company. This is your role. This is what is expected of you. And at no time are we going to end up in unnecessary drama because that doesn't serve the client. And so we are here to serve the client or deliver our product, which serves a client. That's our focus, right? And yes, we're all people. There's going to be tension. There's going to be friction. There's going to be bad days and all of that's acceptable, right? What's not acceptable is us not talking about it quickly and then anchoring it on real metrics.
And that's another thing we could talk about is, um, a lot of emotion is tied to the perception of people doing or not doing, not the reality of the output. Um, and so with these people. Like I said, the first time it catches them off guard because they're like, oh, wait a second. You did tell me about this. It was in our onboarding. It was in our interview process. You're you're very aware of this. How we operate. They haven't had this at other companies because they're used to, right? They go to HR, HR sifts it through, then the other party gets it and it's clunky. No, like, let's just go have a conversation. And then what I find is a lot of these conversations happen without me, the second, third, fourth, fifth. And ongoing because they can go to the person in a non-confrontational way now and say, hey, like, I noticed this happened like.
Again, with curiosity now, instead of the the assumption of them messing up going, hey, I saw that happen. Like, do you need support? What happened? Can I can I help? Or give me some insight because that seemed like that was not how we do it. And then they're willing to listen. And so I actually find it moves your culture totally a different direction. And again, this is a very, very different approach to managing than I've experienced or seen other companies do.
Yeah, yeah. Thank you for sharing that.
My next question for you is.
It's a little. Let me, I want to make it a good one, actually. I want to make it a good one. So let me see if I can find a very good one for for this case.
Okay, this is following up on on what we just talked about, right? What tips would you have for leaders? In relationship to employees and what tips would you have for leaders as an entrepreneur?
Yeah, so let's start with tips as an entrepreneur.
If you're gonna lead a company and be the leader, you've got to take care of yourself. Um, and I think this is so missed in the business world. You cannot show up as your best self and give your company the best, let alone your team the best. Or your clients the best. If you're not taking care of your sleep, taking care of your health, taking care of your mental wellbeing, have stability, if you're not prioritizing your pay, making sure that you're taking care of your financial situation, like you've gotta take care of yourself in order to be an amazing leader. So often, you're giving to everybody else and you forget to take care of yourself, which will degrade your ability to give to everyone else. And so that's first is like prioritize yourself and then that'll give you the power, the
energy, everything else to give to everyone else. The second, when you're dealing with your team, I was on a podcast the other day and we talked about the team's journey. You've gotta really think about what is that team member's journey in working with your organization, right? So what's the interview process? What's their onboarding process? What does work feel like? You've gotta see it and visualize it and you have to understand the things that they like about it, the things they don't like about it, and where you as a company are failing. A great example of this, I was working with a company and I was talking to their sales leader and I was there super early. I spent a whole day on site and I noticed, you know, she got there first, which was fine. That was, she likes
the morning. And then I watched her get the coffee container, walk down the hallway. This is an older lady too. She's like in her seventies. Walk down the hallway with the water container, fill it up at the water fountain, right? Like 12 doors down in the hallway, walk back, put it on so that she could make her morning cup of coffee. And I was like, how many times a day are you doing this? She's like, well, I do it then and then I typically have to do it one more time around lunchtime. And then if I want to get water, I gotta walk down the hallway to get water. And I'm like, that's so inefficient. Like, well, what about snacks? Like, are there any snacks in the office? And she's like, well, not really. Like, there's no budget for that. And so like, there's like, I get busy and it's lacking. So I went to the owner and I'm like, let's get a water
company in here to either direct line water in so that we're saving time and this old lady's not walking down the hallway. And let's create a quick snack budget, pull the team so we can see what kind of snacks are good to have on hand. So your team is full of energy in case they miss lunchtime or miss a break. They still have something to eat. And it's a very low investment, but again, it was looking at that team journey going like, man, here's a sticking point. Let's solve that. Like this should not be something that's taking time and energy away from my team. Let's invest the time and money to support them. And so that's what I mean. Like, look at your team's journey and make sure you have clarity into what's working, what's not working, and all the noise, right? That goes back to our early thing. Like, if you're hearing noise, you need to hear it and then address it.
Thank you for being here today. I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live. I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue to move forward. This is going to get more and more fun. We'll have more and more engagement as well. We'll invite people to participate in the show. And thank you for giving us your time and attention. Have an excellent time building out your vision and becoming a vision pro yourself.
Page updated November 13, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated
