Vision Pros Live Podcast
Original podcast
Where to listenCopy share link
Reaching for apex performance with Dana Skaggs and Jackson Calame.
8,642 words · 2 speakers
It's really exciting.
I like exciting. I like happening.
It's like right on that cusp where I was journaling this morning and I'm like, there's a part of me that's like so excited, just so excited. And there's another part of me, if I'm brutally honest, that just wants to crawl under the covers.
And find me under there.
So I have both of those parts in me just coexisting. It's so much fun.
Very good. I get that. I think all entrepreneurs, whether they admit it or not, they know, they know.
I know.
That's, that's just, that's part of, I mean, part of imposter syndrome, part of life. That's part of doing great and big things we've never done before. It's like, if you don't have a little bit of fear related to things that you're doing that are new, you're just nuts. You know, like it's a different level of crazy.
And are you even an entrepreneur if you're not a little scared, if you're not pushing into areas that you've never done before? It's just like, it's wonderful and it's, you know, terrifying and all the things.
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I love that you talk about, and you've got your title, the queen of boundaries too. Boundaries are super, super important to me, as is Apex Performance, which is one of your big topics. And I love that on your website, in fact, I'm gonna, I'm gonna cheat. Normally, my, my team does this while we talk, but I love the quote you have here. It speaks to your rigor, it speaks to your desires, and it speaks to your witty personality. You would be a great, great, like special guest on the show Suits. It's one of my favorites, by the way.
Oh, Suits. I love Suits.
I can see that.
Oh, my gosh.
And witty and hilarious and so full of awesome. So pushing through and transforming like the phoenix, rising from the flame, even when you feel like a pile of ash. That is just awesome. That is so epic. So we're gonna, we're gonna be diving into this and have a lot of fun with this. Hopefully, visionaries, play along with us. If you got questions or comments, don't hesitate to drop those. No matter what decade this is, I will be here. And so will Dana. We will be here. Our teams will. We want to explore these depths because there's just so many layers and levels of what success and abundance in life can look like. And Dana brings it. So before we dive in too far, Dana, what are three resources that have gotten you to where you are?
What are three resources other visionary leaders need to consider looking at on their journey?
Okay, so we're looking at it from the point of boundaries and also entrepreneur. And with me being a psychotherapist as well, three things came to my mind. I got thinking earlier about that question. I'm like, okay, right off the bat, now this book doesn't look like this anymore because this is old school. This is OG right here. But the book now is like, I think it's, it's red, black.
Book is porn. It's so passionately red.
I mean, these, these guys, Dr. Henry Cloud and John Townsend, they are like the OG of boundaries. I mean, just, oh, my God.
I am with you on this.
They, they absolutely saved my life. I mean, I've got a personal story. If you have time later, we can get into that a little bit, but I mean, saved my life. I would highly recommend this right here. It's fabulous, fabulous book.
All right, page 128, boundaries in marriage, guys. I've got this triple dog ear, not on accident, with the page sticking out. Right? Like, that's how impactful, like this, like, no, I'm not forgetting to re-circle back to that page in life. So. Dana crushed it. Boundaries. What's number two? My goodness.
Okay, so number two is surprisingly enough, it's this one.
It's amazing because.
Adult children and emotionally immature parents, all of us.
Yes, adult children of emotionally immature parents. Because if we're having trouble setting boundaries, eventually we're going to have to get to the question of why is that? Why are we having trouble setting boundaries? And a lot of times, we get back to things we learned growing up. And I love the way this says emotionally immature parents. We're not judging anybody. We're not trying to throw anybody under the bus. We're just simply saying, we're fallible human beings raised by fallible human beings, who were raised by fallible human beings. And sometimes those situations created a scenario for us where we became like,
people pleasers, or we're trying to keep the peace. And because of the way we were raised, maybe our parents were very immature, and we became like parentalized really early. And so now we're like, oh, my gosh, we have to be so much in control. And it causes issues with us. So that is a fabulous book.
Now. Am I the only parent out there who's considering like, okay, my daughter's 14th birthday is coming up in August, right? It's right around the corner. Should I buy that book for her? Does that make me an immature parent? To buy her the book? She'll be like, just read. This is why I'm so lost, baby. I'm like, go ahead. You know, is that like putting more immaturity on her? Or is that like me being the, doing the right thing as a dad? Be like, you're smarter than me. Like.
Six of one happen as of another there, Jackson.
Go for it. Anybody want to answer that? Go ahead. But I'm that type of dad who's like, yeah, just do me a favor. Read the child whisperer with me, please.
All right, go ahead. Next, what's number three? I like that.
All right, here's number three.
Crazy sounding book.
This was referred to me. Let me get it.
Stop Walking on Eggshells. Ooh, by Paul Mason. I love you, Paul. Keep going.
So sometimes, again, the reason why we have trouble setting boundaries is because of characteristics that important people in our life have, whether it's a spouse, whether it's a parent, whether whoever it is. And this particular book is about when someone you care about has borderline personality disorder.
I don't know if you know very much about that.
I have enough.
I hope you don't, but maybe you do. For those that know about BPD, it's when you know, you know. And that if you, if you have someone very close to you that struggles with that disorder, it's, um, it's a big deal. It's not a small thing. It's very painful. It's painful for everyone involved. There is no easy answer. It goes on and on and on and on and on. And did I say on? Um, and so sometimes that's why it's called stop walking on eggshells because when you're in a relationship with someone like that,
you do what I call the eggshell dance because you're terrified of some kind of, they're going to lash out, it's going to get bad. And that is one of the reasons why some people have trouble setting boundaries. Um, that used to be me and it's not any longer because of Henry Cloud and John Townsend. Like I said, they saved my life, but that's, we have to be real. I mean, we're, we're in relationships and these relationships are not, um, easy. And being a psychotherapist, I have the privilege of getting to hear numerous people's stories of what it's like for them. And I, and people come into my office, they are sometimes rock stars at work.
Right. It is so.
CEOs, physicians, their lawyers, their teachers, their, I mean, and they sit in my office and they tell me all of these things. And so we always get back to boundary issues and why, why, what's the hitch in the get along? And you're talking about relationships and what happened in those relationships. And so these books are fabulous to help people kind of peel back the layers and sort of work on why, why am I scared to death to say no? Why am I scared to death to be honest? Why am I scared to death to communicate and tell this person what you said the other day? You know, my, my feelings were hurt. Um, why, why are we scared to do, why are we driven by fear?
And we're not setting appropriate boundaries because we're needing, I need you to prove of me, I'm, I'm terrified you're going to be disappointed in me and then reject me and then abandon me. And it just goes on and on and on. So these books are fabulous.
Those are, those are absolutely phenomenal books. I think all visionaries need to consider the reality that they're headed towards needing these assets in their life. Um, and what do I mean by that? You may have a small and simplistic vision right now, and that's okay. And it may just be something that encapsulates you. And over time, as you share that with others or others see what you're doing, if your light is shining bright enough, it's going to incorporate others. And it is so interesting how many people out there feel like this stuff doesn't apply in the everyday world. When in reality, we're surrounded by these types of realities, especially as visionaries. Why? Because we live in a future people can't see. Only you can see. And so you end up triggering people's traumas
and triggering people's safety mechanisms to dive into play when you're trying to share with them what you're trying to do that doesn't quite make sense. You end up creating these types of relationships. Why do I know this? Cause I've suffered through it. Um, and then you gravitate towards mechanisms like the pseudo bull bar effect. The pseudo bull bar effect being a neurological condition that causes people to experience uncontrollable and inappropriate episodes of crying or laughing. And so maybe that's part of why Dana and I, well, it's a loud motorcycle.
Having their, living their best life out there.
So, uh, we, we do want to make these things fun. We do want to make these things also well known because I think so many people ignorantly go through these realities and don't realize that, you know, you're, you're, you as a leader, to be an apex performer, you've got to understand people. You've got to understand how to help people. And if you don't understand these concepts, it's that much harder to then help people. These resources are absolutely golden. So Dana, thank you for bringing so many amazing resources to the plate where I'm like, oh, yep, diving into both of those ones now. Stop walking on eggshells.
For those of you in my position, for a couple of years ago, I decided to get in, what do they call those tractors that have the steam rollers? You know, like the big old giant concrete thing in front of them.
Yeah, I know. I know what you're talking about.
I went from being a guy who walked on eggshells to saying, I'm just going to get in this thing. And I'm just going to start crushing everybody's eggshells in my path. And there and the eggs that are coming out of their feathered ass. And I'm going to start crushing that too. I might as well. I'm sick of this. Right. And not exactly the way that that we want to respond. If we want to be better at relationships, right? It's important to know how to set our boundaries. It's important to know who we want in our life. And we don't have to eliminate people in our life who who create the eggshell traps. So we don't have to eliminate them, but we may want to do our life differently. So those are some, those are some words from not the wise. Been through that, done that, good, bad and ugly. Watch out, pay attention to what Dana is up to and what she's saying.
We'll come right back. We're going to dive into the other side of Apex Performance. Reaching it, how you can reach it while you're also helping all of your team members and friends and family recover from all the borderline personality disorder stuff that's out there. Get your tissues, start crying a little bit, come back ready to have some fun with us and we'll see you on the other side. All right. Welcome into Vision Pros Live with Jackson Callum. I'm your show host. We'll be doing interviews for visionary entrepreneurs and guest leaders who are building fantastic visions out there.
What's up everybody? Welcome into another episode of Vision Pros Live. I'm your show host, Jackson Callum, founder and CEO of First Class Business. And I'm super excited to have Dana Skaggs on today. We're going to be talking about psychology and psychotherapy. We're going to be talking about both sides, the optimal side, which is how to drive excellent results by reaching your apex performance and living by that on a day to day basis. And also, we're going to be talking about the other side because even if you get there, you're not like an eagle that flies in the clouds and nobody relates to. Now you still walk on the same streets as everybody else and you have to deal with all the BS that exists in the real world too. And sometimes we cause the BS, sometimes it's those around us who cause it. But learning how to really play the game of of growth and being a great visionary
requires escaping those who are stuck in their potash.
And also maybe even bringing them along with us, inspiring them to be there alongside our side, but also realizing that it's cool and great and awesome to fly. So we're going to try to bridge both of those gaps as we talk and see if we can harmonize on that. Before I bring Dana back on, a couple of resources to help you do just that. For me, I'm a big fan of the concept, your network is your net worth. And the people around you are the greatest assets to helping you thrive and win in life. So Dave Morrow of hard to kill.org, I highly recommend checking out what Dave's building. He built this program to help 100,000 veterans lose 2 million pounds collectively. He's got an award winning podcast as well for this.
If you look up Dave Morrow Afghanistan, you'll see a New York Times article featuring the, really it's a featured article about the translators who got left behind with the transition of the war. I don't want to get political on it, but I do want to point out that Dave was there to help the people who needed the help the most, and I think it's amazing. And he does that in terms of helping military veterans feel good, look good, and go about doing good after they get back from war and have to get back into this normal thing we call life. Right? He's expanded this now. Those of us who are not military and who are civilians, we now get to join as well. And go check out his new book, Harden Up, by Dave Morrow, and see if that's another resource that can help you out.
Then there's Oportunidades de Trabajo para Latinos, that's opportunities to work for Latinos. If you're in the mindset of, I want to hire a VA, then please don't contact us. Virtual abusive relationships are not ones that we support. We build with digital ambassadors. We help people who've never heard of Canva, never heard of Upwork, never heard of LinkedIn and Fiverr and beyond, never read the Rich Dad Poor Dad, or Think and Grow Rich, individuals who know how to use the internet, but haven't been given the tools. We teach them how to become amazingly powerful virtual assistants and how to help us build things like the show that you're actually listening to. And we align them with entrepreneurs who are ready to be amazing leaders.
People who want to take interest in their lives, people who will know that if we serve the people. That are within our walls, super, super well. Those people are going to go and build amazing things along our side, just like you saw with Luisa and Cynthia, who run our Spanish podcast, Oprah Vayas Latinas, which goes hand in hand with that brand. So we look forward to seeing your support on that. If you know of a Latino leader, an Indian leader, leader, or a Filipino leader who would love to be on one of our shows, we've expanded in all three of those markets, and we're always looking for inspirational stories, people who've already dove into these things and are already working on building out your successful careers. You are a beacon of hope and light and truth for millions of those out there who are probably thinking,
how in the world could I ever become that? You're the key for helping inspire them. So thanks for joining us on that. Lastly, there's the Water Project. The Water Project is not a homegrown institute of ours. It's just one that I fell in love with. It took me a bit to fall in love with it. I had to do some serious research on it and really dive in and start paying attention to something I've never been able to relate to. I've never been thirsty in my life. I've always had access to water. And so seeing these kids, right, and these, these parents that have to go three, five miles just to get clean water, they have to leave school, they have to leave work to do it. I mean, they, they wouldn't survive without it. It took me a lot of time and patience in myself to internalize this and realize that, man, why, why, why am I not thinking more about this? What
if I could do more? Well, we can. Share the word. Spread it with friends and family. Maybe consider contributing. If you've got five to $10, put it into one of these really cool Kickstarter projects they do. I call it a Kickstarter project, crowdfunding, if you will. And you might see kids who celebrate water more than our kids are going to celebrate Christmas Day this year. You get to have that type of impact on a community. You get to know which community you impacted, and the Water Project actually sends you the proof of what they did for that community. So you can see the results of that. You'll be making a generational impact on individuals who suffer far, far greater scares, sacrifices, and challenges that we will probably never even relate to if we're listening to a podcast or on this. So be my friend, join me
on that. And if you know of another cause that you'd rather see supported, or you're like, man, I want Jackson to talk about this cause, do me the favor, uplift me, put it in the comments, give us a chance to take a look at it, to give back. We got eight billion people to help in this world. And if we combine forces, we can do just that. For now, I'm going to bring Dana Skaggs back on, and she's going to do that for you right along my side. Welcome to Vision Pros Live, Dana.
Hello, Jackson.
Oh, man, I'm excited. We're gonna dive in to this apex performance conversation. So for those who may not be aware, what does it mean to achieve apex performance? And why does it matter?
Apex performance is when we are able to reach the top level of our potential. And most of us struggle to be able to do that. We're trying our best, but especially if we don't have healthy boundaries, we get pulled, we get pulled right, we get pulled left, we get pulled down. We get sucked into all of these issues around us. A lot of these relationship issues, a lot of issues that belong to other people that we're trying to manage and we're personalizing, we're getting defensive. We're getting sucked into these areas and it is like, it's sort of like someone siphoning gas out of your tank. And so you can't get all the way that you need to go. Say you need just about all the gas in your tank to get the distance.
Well, if you're allowing these other situations to suck gas out of your tank, you're not gonna get, you're not gonna be able to go all the way that you were born to do, that you have the capacity to do. And you might be the only person that has the capacity to go all the way there. And so it's just like, you've got, you've got to be able to, to set those boundaries so that you can unabashedly just go all the way as far as you can go. And you also have to be able to face fear. You're not gonna reach your apex performance unless you're able to face fears that you have. And a lot of the fears get back to your relationships and they get back to boundary issues.
It's interesting, some of, some of the Christians listening in may have a very solid concept of this, or at least they have access to the solid concept of the virgins with the oil and the lamp and how they couldn't share their oil with other people. Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to make it the distance. And I think in our, our world of infinite supplies and resources, we sometimes forget that we don't have access to the, the limited supply and resources.
When I say we don't have access, sure, law of attraction, law of abundance, the secret, all that stuff can get us there. But I also believe that those powers, personally, my belief is you can also leverage those powers to completely royally screw over your life. Um, and I think a lot of people don't realize that. So you, you talk about this from a cautious approach of, again, don't necessarily let people siphon the gas out of your tank because then you may not make it to your destination. Um, what's the difference then in me being selfish and hoarding my resources? Versus being wanting to be a good natured human being who gives back? And feels like I'm sharing something with somebody else that's going to lead it to us both winning. Can you talk about that?
I would love to, because as you're talking, I'm, and, and I'm listening to what you're saying and hoarding gets us nowhere. Um, it gets nowhere. As a matter of fact, for those of us who are entrepreneurs, I know, and, and maybe you can speak to this. I feel like you can. That I know when I've been in a space where I feel like I'm meant to be, the energy is like I'm on fire. It's like I'm electric, right? You could, I feel like you could light up a whole street of, of lights in the night and, and you could just like the whole way down. The funny thing is the flip side of that is when I'm pulled into an area that I, it's not my thing, like
Yes.
Technical stuff or like, you know, accounting stuff and, and I have to sit there with my, with my, um, consultant. And she starts bringing up like all these things and I lit, I'm not Jackson, I'm not joking. I literally feel like a balloon that's deflating.
And I had just, I'm telling you, I had just been on like a podcast with somebody and we were talking and I felt so full of energy and so alive. And we were talking about, cause I was in my space, right? It's just like, you feel the electricity. It's like it, it, it multiplies, right? When you're in your space, it multiplies. And so you have not only for you, but you have for, for everybody, you're spreading it around. But then when you get pulled into an area that's not your thing, that's not your space. It's just like ew, I feel like I'm shrinking and I just wanna get off. When I was on, I was on the, the Zoom call with her and I just, she told me, she goes, when I, I start going like this and she goes, oh my gosh, she says, we gotta stop. Cause I know when Dana starts touching her face, that means she's done, she can't deal with this anymore. She wants off the phone.
Cause I start going like this, it's just like can't, I don't, I don't like it. So I feel like when we're in that space to, to, to, to reach that apex of what each one of us is meant to do, which is different. You know, what I'm meant to do is different from what you're meant to do, which is different from what someone else is meant to do. But when we step in that space, it's like a, it's like a, like a slipstream. It just goes whoosh, you know, and you, you get filled up with so much energy. It's opposite from hoarding. It's when you're in that space, it's, it flows through you and it gets almost like magnified as it comes through you. And then other people are able to benefit from that as well. And so that's what, that's, that's my answer to that whole.
I love that. I love that. It took me in a direction that I wasn't anticipating, but it's like a beautiful direction and it's like, oh my gosh, that's amazing. So, cause you're, we all have access to being able to feel what you're talking about. But we also have to give ourselves permission, right? We have to be willing to do that and we have to be willing to recognize it. And then we kinda have to be willing to own it. And there's an old saying, right? In the dating world, it's me, it's not you, it's me, right? And that's, that's all like my go-to realities more often nowadays is I tend to be more that guy nowadays. So I'm like, look, it's me, I, I can't be what you want me to be and that's okay. Like, and I, and I'm not gonna be rude about it. And it's funny cause people have a harder time letting me go these days.
I've noticed that. I told my, I told my team members, I said, guys, it's kinda like, I'm like, somebody's falling into a pool and they're grabbing my arm. Right? And I'm like, like, no, I'm not going that direct. Thank you. Like I, I enjoy your, like, you know, but they, they now don't want to, right? And so there's a new, there's a new challenge with it, but I love what you said. If somebody. Is if it's not adding fuel to the fire, I gotta give a big shout out to Randy. He'll know who he is. But Randy, one day, years ago, he goes, this is like three, four years ago, goes, "Jackson, it's like fires come out of your eyes when you're talking." And I went, "Oh dude, fire is coming out of every single fiber of my body right now." I was like, "Absolutely."
And that's what Randy drove, right? That's the energy that he brought me as he worked with me on the purposes of what we're driving. And I'm so grateful for an entire team that brings that, but we're very, we're very conscious these days about making sure that those are the types of people that we surround ourselves with at Vision Pros, live in a first-class business. So I want further thoughts on that, Dana. How do, how do we continue to help people shift into, into that and away from what siphons away their energy?
Okay, two answers to that. One is that when, when we step into our space, especially if you're a leader, if you're an entrepreneur, if you're a leader, then there's going to be, not if, but when people approach you and they start going, "Well, you're a little extra, you know, you're, you're a little extra, you know, you don't, do you really need to say it that way? Maybe you need to tone it down some. You're just a little bit too big for the room." You know, blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, can you tell I've heard these things before?
Bye.
You know, you're just, you're taking up a little too much space. They, they try to bring you down into something that's more comfortable for them. If, if you, if, if you're a leader and you're like a, like entrepreneurial, then that's going to happen.
And when you're setting healthy boundaries, you let other people sit with their own discomfort. You don't own that. If they're uncomfortable with what you need to do, if they're uncomfortable with your personality, they're uncomfortable with how loud you are, they're uncomfortable with how direct you are, they're uncomfortable with your energy, they're uncomfortable with what I fill in the blank, okay, they can be uncomfortable. That has nothing to do with us. That's their discomfort. We're not doing anything to make anybody else uncomfortable. We're trying to give ourselves permission. Like you said, it's me. We're trying to give ourselves permission to be.
Visionaries, some of you aren't going to hear this. I'm going to interrupt because some of you aren't hearing it right now. They're going to project this on you. They're going to tell you, you're the one making them uncomfortable. They're going to tell you that it's because of you that they're not comfortable. They're going to point all at you and you and you and you. Escape that. No, it is not you.
It's not you. And so here's the thing, sometimes we cannot necessarily geographically or physically escape it, but you can emotionally escape it with boundaries. When you release the other person, if they want to feel uncomfortable, okay, feel free to be uncomfortable. But I, technically, Jackson, their discomfort is in their brain. That's where their discomfort is. We're not creating that. They are. It's how they're interpreting us. And why they feel that way around us has nothing to do with us.
I will caution you, all those who are listening in, again, this is why you want to work with a professional like Dana, not myself. This can lead you being hit in the face by a fire pan. Just gonna say it.
I'm glad you laughed because it's worth laughing about, but this can lead to, that reacts, those physical realities, right? Be wise about seeking professional counsel and how to deal with these scenarios because it can have a dramatic effect on you and the safety of you and your loved ones, even from your loved ones who are ideally supposed to respect the fact that you're just different than they are. So.
Well, Jackson, what you're talking about is the bell curve, okay? If you think about your average bell curve, then visionaries, we're in the, we're in the tip end, okay? We're on the end. You, you think about, like, I think it's 86% is in the middle. That's the meaty part of the bell curve. That's your average population. And whatever you pick, you can pick any topic and you're going to have people involved and you've got a bell curve where the vast majority of people are in that fat middle. But then you've got the tails. Now, one end of the tail are the people that maybe aren't doing as well, okay? And they're, they're, they're much, they're lower. And then you've got the people on the higher end, whichever way you want to interpret that.
Sure.
But in either way, the people that are in the tails get criticized, get made fun of, they get accused people because people want to see other people like them. They don't, when you're in the tail. They don't like it because you're different.
Right.
Whether you're different for this reason or different for that reason, whatever the reason, if you're, if you're in the, one of the tails, which visionaries are, then to be honest with you, are you even a visionary if people aren't criticizing you and, and, and fussing on, on some level? But you still have to deal with it in relationships, which is why we need boundaries. See, because boundaries is that's a way to be respectful of people, to respect their right to their opinion, to be able to communicate well, not let, um, uh, like bitterness and resentment build up because we're not communicating things that we need to communicate and there's reasons why that we're not. And that guy could go on and on with that, but I wanted to get to the second answer to your question was also, you said you had a team around you.
It's surrounding ourselves with people who are fabulous at doing things that we're not fabulous at doing and letting them be wonderful at what they do. And as a whole team, you can rise absolutely like a phoenix because each person is doing it. And it kind of reminded me what you said of your, your, um, business supporting the VA program, you know, the really finding people and see that's something that they're, they're to step in to do something that someone who possibly is a visionary needs to be done. I, I know exactly what that feels like. I'm kind of in that position now.
I'm going to add one more layer, one more big layer for your visionaries out there because you, you did talk about people bridging the gaps that we don't know how to do, right? Or that we're not as good at, that some people are better at. And I would say that's an elementary level for visionaries, but the harder level and the more important level is actually, I think it's harder for entrepreneurs to let go of what they're really great at, but should no longer be doing and allow somebody else to do it who's just learning for the first time or who has not learned exactly how you're doing it. We have such a nasty tendency as leaders to condescend and to, uh, say that, no, that's not how I wanted, then I wanted them this way. And we don't, we don't nurture people towards the opportunity for growth.
And when we make that, that shift where we say, you know what? Even though I'm great at getting myself booked, or even though I've got my email system down, or even if I can contribute to building my website. If I'm doing this, who's doing the more important things for my growth that nobody else can truly do? And that I still need to train and learn how to do if I'm going to go to those next levels. So I think that's another great opportunity for you entrepreneurs and visionaries out there is learning to let somebody else learn to do in completely, or as a mode of progress, what you're doing and give them the space to learn.
That's an excellent point. You're absolutely true. I mean, that's, that's right. Kind of reminds me is that the quote that says the enemy of great is good.
Yes, I love that quote.
And so you can't for, you can't get great. You can be good at all kinds of things, but you can't get great if you're not willing to let someone else learn how to do something. So that you can let go of that.
Example on that right now. So we, we don't, I've, I've, my first company where I was an SEO company. We're really, really, really, really, really, really well. And we had the search director of Google as our guide, um, right? So that was very, very helpful. Matt Cuts, we're part of the, the Y Combinator program. But his first teaching to us was the sign of an expert is not somebody who knows it all. It's somebody who will go get the information. Um, and only he talked about how he didn't know it all. There's all sorts of changes being made all the time. So when it comes to the growth process of SEO, I've also learned enough to know that that's one of the greatest and easiest solutions to sell to entrepreneurs. Because I think how important it is, it's essential, it's important, but it's just a piece.
So my business, 14 years later and, and first class business is now three years into it. We, I know enough to, I know enough to be very, very dangerous and very, very good in terms of SEO. Um, and to probably outclass 99.9% of companies in relation to how to build with it. But we're just barely this last week, training some team members internally on go and use these tools. Go and dive in further. And now that we have somebody with the capacity and all of the other thousands of things are being taken care of that are also essential and important to business growth. Now it's time for that, that person to work with two or three more team members
to learn all about how to apply what they know in 2024, what they see in the market. Knowing full well that they're not going to be better than me at SEO for a couple of years. They're going to have a lot of things to possibly learn about it, but to be able to sit back. And to not focus on that, to allow them to be able to explore and make mistakes and figure things out and move forward. I don't need to distract myself with that. I've, I've got to stay focused on far more important things. And again, I, I think so many of us as entrepreneurs, we struggle, trust me, I struggled for a long time to get to a point where I could let that go like that. But it's not a matter of being like, you can't be the smartest person in the
room. It's not a matter of trying to get somebody who's better than you at doing things. I think it's a matter of enjoying the journey and empowering people as you go. Um, and so that's, that's, um, that's my perform, that's my apex performance tip is to learn to enjoy doing what you do, but also trying to learn to put other people in a place to succeed, even if they're not as, as good at you at that thing. I guarantee you they're better than you at other things. All my team members are way better than me at lots of things in life. How do we create a fullness of appreciation for that? That's what we aim for.
Mm hmm. I love this. I love what you're saying. And really to, to be the importance of business of, of, because you can have, and you've had guests on your podcast. I've, I've heard your podcast. I've heard the guests and I have a podcast. I have tons of guests on my podcast. You can have people on there that are excellent, that know what they're talking about, but if they're not a good business person, or if they don't know someone who's a good business person, see, that isn't, that enables people to be able to grow so they can get their message out to more people. Cause you could talk to someone, you think, oh my gosh, this
person is amazing. I know so many people that could benefit from what this person has to say, but if there's not a business component, if there's not an ability to market, to be able to get the word out. Then it's it's sad.
Yeah.
You know, it's just, it's really kind of, it's, it's just, it shouldn't be that way. But that's the way it is in a lot of respects.
There's, there's so much opportunity for all of us to learn. Um, you know, and I appreciate your humility in that, Dana, as well. Um, I'm going to be the first or the second to say it, like, just, I guess, because you did go first. Um, I have so much to learn. All right. And if I stay centered on what I do know, and I allow people to influence what I don't know that care about me, right, that are going to help me with growth, then I can move so much faster, so much further. So I do, I do want to make sure I get my favorite question in today because you're the exact type of person I want people to, um, to hear this type of an answer from. So the Phoenix and Flame podcast, by the way, super grateful for being on that show. Absolutely love how you run it. Um, moving away from all things cerebral for a minute. Dana, if this were the last chance in your life to speak,
what powerful lesson can other visionaries learn from your experience?
I'm gonna, I'm gonna break away from the boundaries talk for a moment, and I'm going to get a little more personal, although boundaries is very personal with me. And I will say, if I were to leave one thing with people, it would be these two words. Keep going.
Keep going. No matter what happens, if you, if you make a mistake, keep going. If you fall on your face, and you will, keep going. If you feel like you're, like a failure, if you're in a relationship that you're thinking, what's happening right now? If you're, if you're upset, if you're going to see a therapist, if you're, whatever you're dealing with, whatever's happening, as a visionary, you're going to push. And you're gonna, things are gonna happen. When you push, it, it, things change in your relationships, personally, interpersonally, whatever happens, just keep going. Don't stop. Don't let anything stop you.
Keep going.
I love it. You didn't say keep going enough, though. We need more of that. And the times where it just doesn't hit, we need more of that. So I love the quote, love what you're talking about with it. And for those of you who do need that, one more, keep going. You know, it's so important. And, you know, and I would add to that. We're speaking to the essence of somebody who's following their intuition, their heart and their mind on this. I would say I'm speaking mostly to that. For those of you who are off track, you know, maybe it's still the same solution, keep going. All right, maybe that's the only way through and to figure out how to get back on track.
But stagnant, right, stopping or moving backwards or trying to just live in a a position of regret or shame or guilt or fear, like I can't subscribe to those behaviors. That to me is not the essence of what's going to drive goodness and abundance and peace and love and harmony and all the wonderful things that I want in life. So I really appreciate that thought process. We've got a few minutes left. With a few minutes left that we have, Dana, what's what's, what are the questions or areas of topics that hosts like me sometimes may forget to ask you about? I mean, we're like, man, I wish we would spend more time talking about this, or I wish I could give this more frequently to the world.
What are those areas of expertise that we might miss out on if I ask the wrong question?
Well, something that comes to mind is something that that I, that comes to my mind when I'm reviewing potential podcasts, guests and things. And it's like, why?
Are you good at this? Why should someone listen to you more than someone else? Why, what, what was your experience in life? Because there's so many people out there, right? There's, there's tons of people and that's a wonderful thing. But people are, they're, they're, they're reaching out and they're wanting to say this or that. The question is, okay, that's interesting. Well, what is it about you? Cause if you go on their LinkedIn profile for going to scroll down, sometimes you don't see anything education wise, or, or you're thinking of why, why are you good at this? Why does this, what is it that you're bringing to this table?
What experience did you have? What trauma did you go through? What happened to you? What was your walk? What was your journey? Like you think about the phoenix and think, okay, what, what was the fire? That's why my podcast is Phoenix and Flame, because I, I'm equally interested, not only in what helped you rise like a phoenix, but what was the flame? What flame did you go to that, that, that burnt you down to ash? And then somehow you kept going and you were able to eventually rise into the phoenix? You just didn't stop in the ash. And so what was it? What was the flame? What was the fire that created that in you? That you ended up rising in this phoenix and offering this, this wonderful information
to people that you're trying to get out to help people? Why are you good at this?
That's huge. I love that. It's a, it goes like hand in hand, perfectly suited with everything that Vision Pros Live stands for. The whole point of why we talk about visions, um, and what's there is based on what you're talking about. And that's, you know, realizing, coming to understand our identities, right? Coming to understand our purposes. I have been the phoenix rising probably more than a hundred times in my life. Um, I have been through so many different versions of that. And you're talking about self-awareness, right? Becoming that much more aware about what has driven us at a deeper level.
And it's, it's interesting to, to, to somebody who's a nurturer and a leader, trying to stay focused on realizing I've already like, I'm pretty darn locked in.
On what my whys are, right? What, where were, what was my phoenix? What were my ashes? What burned me down? But to be a great leader, if we want to be, if our goal is to lead the masses, you, you receive so much more strength and value when you can keep unlocking that from, for others, when you can remember that you once started out where, what was the thing that drove you? Video games and pizza.
Right? What was the thing that drove me being able to play as much basketball I want and never have to work in my life? Right? Been able to remember that, um, you know, I'm playing, I learned to play the guitar to pick up chicks. Um, you know, like that, that's why I started to learn that instrument. Um, right? There's all sorts of little things that we think motivate us, but they're, they're not so sure. They're just layers that have been stacked upon our true core. Um, and I was like, what, what we've actually been through. So, uh, I highly recommend if you, if you can relate to that reality of, of, I don't really get why this Jackson guy gets so excited about what he does. Right? I don't really get how all these leaders are so like,
they seem so frou frouy, um, you know, but if you want to figure that out, go to Dana Skaggs.
Go talk to the queen of boundaries. Go find out what that is within you. Start to dive into figuring out, how do you find your purpose, your passion? Maybe try passionpro.org, our, our program for that too. Life is different. Life is a different style of living. When you figure these aspects out, there's so much more that's opened up for me by finding these things out. And I had to go the hard way. I didn't have somebody like Dana Skaggs in my life to help me figure it out. But we have people like Dana right in front of us. So there's going to be, call the actions below the show where you can get in touch with Dana and, and see and learn more about her program. You got an endless supply, not unless, but how many episodes are you at?
Oh, I think 126 or something like that.
126 examples of her diving in and researching and uncovering with real human beings who are willing to share how they became a phoenix and what thing they went through to get there. That can unlock so much treasure for all of us. And then there's the resources that will add below that too, that you can dive into. And lastly, there's one more call to action on this show. It's the top right corner of the screen. You'll see a button that says be our guest. If you want to come on this show and talk about your vision and help us see what you're doing for others in the world, then definitely don't hesitate to book your appointment, come on, get to know me and the other co-hosts in the show and let's host you. Before I wrap up, final thoughts, Dana's gags, anything else you'd like to share with the audience?
I just, just believe in yourself, just believe in yourself and just keep going. Like I said, it's gonna, it's gonna happen. It's not going to be easy and the mistakes are just opportunities to learn.
I heard it from Dana's gags. Vision pros, go ahead, I cut you off.
It's okay. I was just saying, failure is I don't, I don't really even know what failure is because what is failure? It's just learning new stuff, learning what doesn't work.
Absolutely. And as Barbara Ann Gardenhire Mills, one of my great friends also says, the acronym first attempt in learning, right? Failure, first attempt in learning, we've got to fail forward. And as Dana's gag says, keep going. We'll see you guys in the next episode. Take care, everybody. Thank you for being here today. I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live. I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue to move forward. This is going to get more and more fun. We'll have more and more engagement as well. We'll invite people to participate in the show and thank you for giving us your time and attention. Have an excellent time building out your vision and becoming a vision pro yourself.
Page updated November 13, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated
