Pod Insights Vision Pros Live Podcast 38 Years in Business and Still Going, The 4 A's of Change with Melih Oztalay About this episode Maile Arsenault founded SmartFinds Marketing in Detroit in 1986. She survived the 2009 financial crisis when the Big Three automakers filed for bankruptcy in her backyard. Then she survived COVID. Then she used the downtime to rebrand everything. That's not luck, that's a system. In this episode, Maile and co host Javanka McGee break down the Four A's of Change that have kept SmartFinds alive and thriving for nearly four decades, why accepting change is the hardest step most people skip, and what it really means to shift from building a business to becoming a leader. 🔔 Subscribe for weekly entrepreneur interviews and real business strategies. 0:00 - Introduction & Maile's background 2:00 - Surviving the 2009 financial crisis in Detroit 5:00 - How COVID became an opportunity to rebrand 8:00 - CEO vs. Founder: how your title evolves with you 11:00 - What SmartFinds Marketing actually does 15:00 - B2B vs. B2C: why the switch changed everything 19:00 - From making money to becoming a leader 22:00 - The Four A's: Anticipate, Accept, Adapt, Adopt 27:00 - Why your competitors move while you're still fretting 30:00 - Maile's why: challenging outdated thinking#VisionProsLive #MarketingStrategy #MaileArsenault #SmartFindsMarketing #BusinessLongevity #B2BMarketing #LeadershipMindset #EntrepreneurLife #ChangeManagement #JavankaMcGee
Transcript 0:00 Speaker 00 Hello and good morning. I'm Javanka McGee, co-host of Vision Pros Live. Thank you so much for joining me this morning. I of course I'm going to ask you to tell me your first, your last name, the name of your company, and also where you're located.
0:14 Speaker 01 All right, sounds good. Good to be on your show, Javanka. My name is Maylie, last name is Ostelley, the CEO and the founder of Smart Minds Marketing. We're based out of Detroit, Michigan, in the Detroit metropolitan area, and we've been here for thirty eight years.
0:32 Speaker 00 Did y'all hear that? Thirty eight years. You don't hear about a lot of people being around for thirty eight years, which means mainly that you've made it through and successfully gone through a lot of things to include what we talked about before, and then also not to mention COVID. Can you just tell me, how did, how did, how did you survive all of this? Thirty eight years?
0:57 Speaker 01 Yeah, well, we did really well until that 2009, and I was telling you about that before the show started. And so we've, we have experienced two very significant,
1:11 Speaker 01 you know, ultimately financial impacts that businesses will go through. And the first was the financial crisis from 2009, which lasted through 2010, a very difficult time, especially with Detroit being ground zero, and you've got the big three automakers in our backyard all filing for bankruptcy. And so, yeah, we, that was one, that was a very hard lesson to learn. It was also a hard lesson to get through, not to mention, you know, trying to recover, starting in 2011. The other major impact that we ran into was the pandemic. However, this, this time around, we were definitely better prepared
1:52 Speaker 01 in terms of how, you know, we, we changed how we handle our finances after the financial crisis. And so we were better prepared and we were able to, you know, get, you know, kind of coast through the pandemic without major issue. Now, did we have a slowdown in customer activity? The answer is yes, obviously we did. I mean, I think everybody did. Did we have a slowdown in, you know, prospects, Lee Jenner, so all of that slowed down, no question. But the, because we were financially prepared for another disaster, no matter when it might come or how it comes.
2:28 Speaker 01 We actually took the time during the pandemic to rebrand ourselves and recreate our message. And because we're an award winning marketing agency in the state of Michigan, we also had consulting resources that we were tapped into during that time. And so the logo you see behind me is actually a new one since two thousand twenty one.
2:49 Speaker 01 And our colors are different, our website's changed. We kind of, you know, we took the time during that whatever one year period or so. When things were slow and the team just got together and it really took a different piece of the puzzle. And we worked on, you know, our message, our marketing activities afterwards. So, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, you have to experience it sometimes to be able to figure out, well, what do you do? You know, how do you get through it? But having gone through the financial crisis, the pandemic was a breeze.
3:19 Speaker 00 Yes, I, I bet, I bet. And, and I, I love the fact that you mentioned that you took some time to rebrand yourself. That's one of the, the, the big things nowadays is branding yourself and, and, and making sure that that brand follows you, right? I do want to ask, this is very random, Maylie, you mentioned earlier that you're the CEO and the founder. I don't think I've ever asked this question of anyone else, but with your experience, how do you determine how to label your role in your business when you are the CEO and the founder?
3:55 Speaker 01 Yeah, so I think part of it's my age.
4:01 Speaker 01 I think in the early days, when I was much younger, let's say a little back thirty years, right? I was CEO and as far as, you know, are the different firms that we had under our corporate umbrella. But I can tell you that as I've, I've reached now I'm sixty two, as I've reached this, an older age, I'm slowly moving to just calling myself founder.
4:23 Speaker 00 Okay.
4:25 Speaker 01 On progression.
4:28 Speaker 01 That also translates to backing out of the business a little bit and let the team just run.
4:36 Speaker 00 Sounds like you got an exit plan.
4:39 Speaker 01 I don't buy that exit plan. I'm not ready to stop anything, but you know, but but I am suggesting and maybe I need to pull out of the day to day activities even further. I mean, believe me, the team I have is great. They they can operate and they they know they have the authority and the responsibility to do whatever it takes to get the job done. They don't need me micromanaging them. That's not, you know, that's a different issue, but by the same token, I'm still involved in the day to day activities of what's going on. And so it the question is, well, can I pull out of that as well? And then just stick to that founder role.
5:15 Speaker 00 Yes, and it's because it's it's when it is said, it's it's very interesting. It's like when when people start a business and you're an entrepreneur, solopreneur. I I've often wondered like, what do you call yourself? What where do you start at? So that that that's why it's so very random.
5:33 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
5:36 Speaker 01 That's my that's my idea of how I'm just.
5:39 Speaker 00 Like I said, with the years of experience, mainly I thought this is the best, this is the best time to ask the best person. So
5:49 Speaker 00 I thought I was super gonna get this technical, this on the Richter scanners as you go through these years. This is what you like. But I I love that. So tell me more about Smart Finds Marketing.
6:01 Speaker 01 Uh, our firm is what I would effectively say is a three sixty marketing agency. All right. Um, I've got a team of twenty five. We got technical, creative, marketing, writers, everybody's in Detroit. Um, the team has been with me since two thousand and eleven, post financial crisis, uh, and we all get along very well and work very well together.
6:25 Speaker 01 So as you can imagine, because we're in Detroit, you know, we work with manufacturers. And if you're in Detroit and doing anything, you're going to be working in the automotive sector. So that's your starting point. But beyond that, you know, we've, we've kind of migrated, especially post pandemic into B to B primarily. Okay. B to C prior to the pandemic was a lot of fun. We, you know, obviously generated a lot of revenue, but it was also a huge headache. And when the financial crisis came, we were left holding the bag because of the B to C clients.
7:02 Speaker 00 Yes.
7:02 Speaker 01 Whereas with the B to B, I don't have that exposure, especially with the advertising budgets and so on and so forth. It's a more direct approach. It allows for time to, to show results. It's not as stressful either. And so, and I think that also helped get us through the pandemic, not having B to C clients. And so, you know, from our standpoint, there's nothing we don't do anymore. We, you know, take, take, take, take a project, take a problem that a client, you know, a product company might have relative to their branding,
7:43 Speaker 01 their messaging, their marketing efforts, their emails, their advertising, whatever of obviously that, you know, we can come in and be somebody's digital marketing department, literally. We, especially with our large corporate clients, we actually are in support of an existing marketing team. So they usually have anywhere from three to five people. It's not enough. The three to five people alone, especially in a large corporation, can only handle internal marketing efforts, let alone external. We come in and we support them with the external work while they handle the internal. So that's the other scenario. And the third scenario that we run into is we come in as a fractional CMO.
8:25 Speaker 00 Okay.
8:26 Speaker 01 Um, and so, and that's a little bit different than becoming than being the digital marketing department for somebody or the marketing department. Fractional CMO says we're directly working with somebody else of authority. And we need to get permission for the works, the work that we're doing. Whereas in the case where we come in and be, we become the marketing department, we don't, we're not asking anybody. The CEO has given us the authority. We're running with it, right? So there's a little difference in terms of how we become the strategic partner for a company. Um, those are kind of the three different levels we get into.
9:03 Speaker 01 Yeah, do we work with startup? Yes, usually they're well funded and we can come in the door and, um, you know, work with them on a variety of elements in terms of starting their company and moving them forward. So that's, uh, another area that we've worked on. But, uh, you know, I think the last thing I'm going to say is, as you can imagine, after with thirty years out there, and especially with the internet group that we started in ninety four, we've gone through a lot of changes. And I think that's the other important part of this, of this industry and of business in today's world is, how do you adapt to the changes?
9:42 Speaker 00 Yeah.
9:42 Speaker 01 Um, I don't want to take up all your time in your podcast, but I, I could talk about that a whole, even further.
9:49 Speaker 00 Yes, yes. And you know, Miley, you, you use some acronyms and I won't say what they are, but do me a favor for those that are listening and are just starting up, wanting to get where you are today. Share with them what B two B is, B two C is, and CMO.
10:06 Speaker 01 Okay.
10:08 Speaker 01 So B two B is business to business, right? So business to business marketing i- is a different approach and different strategy. Whereas you have business to consumer, which is the B to C segment and be business to consumer. Uh, first of all, in order to get it done, you need a larger budget. Everything has to be done every day and it has to be changed. It's a very rigorous strategy. It's a very rigorous activity and it's nonstop. You don't get to hold, you can't even hold your breath. Okay, so B to C is different. CMO is Chief Marketing Officer, which is usually
10:48 Speaker 01 who the people we are that, you know, that we work with at our clients, um, or they're the senior VP of Marketing, but Chief Marketing Officer is the next, um, most important element in, uh, working with businesses.
11:02 Speaker 00 Thank you. Thank you so much. And I, I, I love the fact that you, you do have so much and I'm just gonna bring this back up. So if you're listening, you guys hear him say nineteen ninety-four?
11:15 Speaker 00 Like, someone that has gone through something to get through to where he is. And I, it's, it's funny because your name says a lot to me, Smart Finds. You know, it's not like you, you started something and you knew exactly what you, you know, what direction you were going into. I'm sure it was this, you know, this up and down type of road, as you mentioned, two thousand nine and then the pandemic. Um, a- as you continue going through and, and making it, what, you got two years till you hit forty? Um, what, what? Your vision in ninety-four is completely from your vision today. So just do me a favor about your visions.
12:00 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, you're right. I mean, when I started, it, I was in a whole nother world at that time. Um, you know, I'm forty years younger, uh, back, back in those days. And the vision was with a lot of energy that I had and there is just to build a company, grow a company and just make a lot of money, right? And not to say that that has changed per se, um, but as I've gotten older, my vision is changing relative to being a leader. And I think that's the difference in to in where I am today. And I'm saying that's my personal vision. I'm not suggesting this is my company vision.
12:42 Speaker 01 You know, the company continues to focus on what we're gonna do. But again, just as much as I told you how my description of CEO to founder has changed over the years, right? The same thing goes with my vision and especially at a
13:01 Speaker 01 as a at a personal level. In other words, you know, how do I bring out the best in others, for example, right? How do I help people and organizations? You know, to see to to take them to another level, to take them to limits or solve problems.
13:27 Speaker 00 Yeah.
13:28 Speaker 01 You know, I so you know, my vision tends to go in that direction. You know, it's about strategy. It's about storytelling. It's about technology, right? And how do you pull all these together, not just in the business environment, but then in the digital environment? You know, let's face it, the last three years, we're we're going on almost three years. We've been, you know, we're in the AI world. We're being bombarded with AI from multiple different directions.
14:00 Speaker 01 And this goes back to this idea that I mentioned earlier. You have to be able to adapt to changes. You know, getting staying stuck in one place and saying, I'm comfortable here. Doesn't work. It just doesn't. You have to find a way to move forward.
14:18 Speaker 00 Yes, and in adapting isn't.
14:22 Speaker 00 Isn't easy at all. I also believe, strongly believe that being an entrepreneur or business owner is not for the weak. Because then adapting becomes probably even more challenging. And, and it's, I, I, I love that you mentioned that because you don't get to where you are. Just with the same vision, right? And I love how you said, you know, the energy that you had was to, you know, get my own business and make a lot of money. Because I believe that that's how a lot of people start off, but what else? Super love mainly is how you transition into wanting to be a leader. And when you said that, my, my body just went into calm mode because I love the fact that.
15:05 Speaker 00 You may have made all the money, you do have a business, but being a leader. Puts you in such a different position of where your mission begins to just grow and evolve. And so, of course, I have one more question for you.
15:21 Speaker 01 Go for it.
15:22 Speaker 00 What's your why?
15:23 Speaker 01 What's my why?
15:26 Speaker 01 That's a good question. What's my why? Um, and I don't know if I have a good answer on that. Um. What's my why? If I had to think about that, because as you were talking, I had other things in my mind.
15:40 Speaker 00 Yeah.
15:44 Speaker 00 I said, I'm a hero.
15:47 Speaker 00 Because you know. You know, it's interesting and the reason why I did that, because there is, you, you speak with passion. You're not just speaking just to, just to tell people, hey, just become a, a business owner and get your marketing together and have this amazing brand. You didn't start this in ninety, ninety-four and end up to where you are right now without a why. So I was like.
16:12 Speaker 01 Yeah, so, yeah, I think, you know, I think we have to keep in mind that, um. I, I think a lot of it has to deal, deal, do with the person. Okay. And the person in my case is I'm an early adopter.
16:25 Speaker 00 Yeah, okay.
16:26 Speaker 01 Alright, and so, um, if you, if anybody's ever read the book Crossing the Chasm. By all means, please do read if you haven't, because it is about change. And over the years, this is where, you know, I have um kind of built up around um my, what I call my four A's of marketing, or if you want to call it four A's of change. You need to anticipate change, which usually is the easiest for everybody. The second one is the hardest, it's accepting change. You can sit there and um uh say, yes, I can accept change, but I I will tell you, most people don't.
17:07 Speaker 01 And they will fret, fuss and fume because of that change. And while they're fretting, fussing and fuming, their competitors are moving ahead of them.
17:19 Speaker 01 There is no version of waiting for something to prove itself for you to say, yes, now I'm ready. I'm sorry, that just doesn't work in today's world. You have to just run with it, try it out, see, test it out. You know, you won't lose, I guarantee you. You will have learned something so you can move on to the next change or the next item. So accepting that change is an, tends to be an emotional uh uh emotional of impact on a lot of people rather than a logical one. Now, if you're gonna get past that point, then it's about adapting to the changes, right? And others, what do you need to do to move yourself forward with that change?
18:00 Speaker 01 And the last one tends to be the easiest, which is adapting to the change and implementing the changes. So those are my four A's, okay? And you know, if I take those four A's, um and if I, you know, if I had to answer your why, as I had a little bit of time to think now, I'm gonna say that I am really there and always have been about challenging outdated thinking. And that comes as a direct response of me being an early adopter. You can't be an early adopter and um not challenge outdated thinking because the bottom line is the world has changed. We're two hundred years, where where the world was fifty years, a hundred, two hundred years ago is a whole lot different than where we are today.
18:43 Speaker 01 And so trying to bring that past and
18:48 Speaker 01 Uh implemented in in today's world and into the future doesn't work. The only thing you can do with the past is learn from it. So my why is about challenging outdated thinking, introducing something creative, practical, right? Um essentially trying you it's it's about forward thinking at the end of the day.
19:09 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah. And you said anticipate, accept.
19:13 Speaker 01 Anticipate change, accept change.
19:16 Speaker 00 Adapt.
19:17 Speaker 01 Adapt, yep.
19:18 Speaker 00 And adapt, adopt, adopt.
19:21 Speaker 01 Adopt, adopt and adapt, two different words.
19:26 Speaker 00 And and I love how you just, man, I I really, really, truly appreciate this because it it it definitely helps those that are just in that mindset. Because anticipating, I'm gonna be honest and I'm gonna put myself out there mainly. I never even thought about doing that, right? Because that's inevitable, right? It changes inevitable, but you don't think about anticipating what type of change. Just change in general, right? So I guess it's in my mind as I'm thinking here. It's not the it's the uncertainty that you anticipate because of the simple fact that it's it's it's inevitable, you know? So that's really good. I I really like that and and.
20:10 Speaker 01 I mean, think of anticipate change, you know, if I turn this around into uh the Boy Scouts motto, right? And my youngest son is, you know, had uh went up to being an Eagle Scout. Boy Scouts motto is be prepared, right? Anticipate change is that be prepared. Um and as long as you can at least ask yourself questions
20:35 Speaker 01 and use those questions
20:37 Speaker 00 Yeah.
20:37 Speaker 01 to answer yourself, right? That's the anticipate change process essentially. Um I hate to say go to chat G P T, but let's face it.
20:49 Speaker 01 Use G P T. I don't care what you do, just.
20:53 Speaker 00 Something or someone or yes.
20:55 Speaker 01 Right, exactly. I'll some ideas off.
21:00 Speaker 00 And and it's it's like I said, it's it's interesting because if I am sitting here and being very honest and not thinking about that first step. I believe that those that are listening, if you start that off, eh I think that's even a day to day kind of. Statement or four A's that you can use.
21:19 Speaker 01 Definitely.
21:20 Speaker 00 Every day when you wake up, anticipate change, you know, accept it and adapt and adopt. You can use that every day. So if you're listening. Use it every day, you know what I mean? But then also mainly, I I don't want to keep you any longer. Please share with myself and everyone else. The website that they can possibly reach you at, get more information and your social media handles.
21:46 Speaker 01 Sure. Um. So first of all, our the company's website is smartfindsmarketing.com. That's the easy part. Um. If you want to reach me, the best place to reach me is on LinkedIn. I have twenty two thousand really close friends.
22:03 Speaker 01 So uh I guarantee I'm the only melee I'm still in LinkedIn, so it shouldn't be hard to find me. Um, and uh do tag me on your posts. I don't care who you are. I don't care if we're connected or not. I'm happy to um react and comment with hashtag something significant in that post. Um, it'll help others expand their reach. Um, you know, ultimately, that's what's. Social communities are all about is uh trying to share and help each other out. Uh, so that would be my other uh suggestion in terms of reaching me.
22:39 Speaker 00 I love that spoken like a leader. He said. Most people ask the question, can I tag you or feel bad like myself like, oh, I didn't ask, can I tag? I love that.
22:50 Speaker 01 No, no, no, just tag me.
22:53 Speaker 00 I love it. And that just means that you have definitely. Define what a leader is and that's the unselfish thought process about just your business but everybody else. So I love that. Meili, thank you so much for choosing to be
23:08 Speaker 01 Oh, thank you. It was great to be on your show, Javanka.
23:11 Speaker 02 Thank you for being here today. I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live. I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue to move forward. This is going to get more and more fun and we'll have more and more engagement as well. We'll invite people to participate in the show and thank you for giving us your time and attention. Have an excellent time building out your vision and becoming a vision pro yourself.
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