The Lindsay Clancy Trial Mini Series: The Defence's Case

After 14 days of testimony and nearly 70 witnesses presented by the prosecution, the defence in the Lindsay Clancy murder trial took the floor. Their core argument? That Lindsay should not be held criminally responsible for the deaths of her three children because she was in the depths of severe postpartum psychosis. In the latest episode of our mini-series tracking the trial, we walk through the defence's argument, led by attorney Kevin Reddington. Featuring powerful testimony from Lindsay’s mother, mother-in-law, and key psychiatric experts, the defence presents evidence to show a devoted mother begging for help, misdiagnosed, and allegedly failed by a fragmented medical system. We also examine the prosecution's rebuttal, including testimony from FBI psychiatrist Dr. Gregory Saathoff, who challenged the credibility of Lindsay’s auditory hallucinations. LINKS If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636. Contact Full Stop Australia https://fullstop.org.au/ on 1800 385 578, 7 days, 24 hours. GET IN TOUCH Follow us on Instagram and TikTok @truecrimeconversations https://www.instagram.com/truecrimeconversations/?hl=en Want us to cover a case on the podcast? Email us at [email protected] mailto:[email protected] or send us a voice note. https://help.mamamia.com.au/en-US/send-a-podcast-voice-note-467960 Make sure to leave us a rating and review on Apple & Spotify to let us know how you're liking the episodes. CREDITS Host & Executive Producer: Gemma Bath Producer: Ella Maitland Video Editor: Julian Rosario Mamamia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which we have recorded this podcast. Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Gemma Bath?

  Hi, I'm Gemma Bath, host of True Crime Conversations. And welcome to our mini-series, Unpacking the Trial of Lindsay Clancy in Massachusetts. The case the entire world can't take their eyes off. We've been updating you multiple times a week in this feed as the court proceedings continue to unfold. Just a warning, this episode contains descriptions of violence against children and suicide. In our last episode, we took you through why the world is so obsessed with this trial. Today, we're going to walk you through the defense's case. Once the prosecution had rested after 14 days of testimony and nearly 70 witnesses, it was time for the defense to take over.

• 0:41Gemma Bath?

  The defense, of course, had already had the chance to cross-examine those called to the stand by the prosecution. But they were running the show and called 10 of their own witnesses for about a week. It should be noted that the prosecution then got the chance to come back with rebuttal witnesses, of which they called three, and took the jury through another five days of testimony before closing arguments were finally given by both sides on August 27th. Now, let's rewind to the defense's opening statement back in late July 2026, when Lindsay Clancy's murder trial had just started. The prosecution has always argued that Lindsay deliberately killed her three children and

• 1:25Gemma Bath?

  was acting intentionally and rationally. They say her motive was being increasingly overwhelmed by her life and her inability to maintain the level of control she wanted. This is how Kevin Reddington, Lindsay's lawyer, opened her defense.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  They brought this charge, Tim Cruz, the DEA, right in the front row, brought this charge. He knew, as did his office, the facts of this case. And he knew, when he brought this charge, that it was going to kill the soul of this young woman. And they were bringing their evidence in front of a jury that she knows that she killed these children. We'll sit here, listen to their evidence, but I suggest to you that the issue for consideration is what was going on in that woman's mind.

• 2:21Gemma Bath?

  Reddington alleges that Lindsay Clancy was in the depths of a postpartum psychosis when she killed her three children, Cora, Dawson and Callan, in the basement of their Duxbury home in January 2023. The defense says she shouldn't be held criminally responsible for their deaths because she was suffering from a disease and a defect.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  She told them that she was suicidal. She told them that she had suicidal ideation and in December, to his and her ever dying regret, told Patrick, in the presence of her mother, that she was having psychosis thoughts of hurting the children. This is a woman that did not get the medication, did not get the medical treatment that she so deserved.

• 3:18Speaker 01

  This is a woman that was suffering from psychosis at the time that she went down to that basement. She had no motive. She loved her children. She intended to kill herself.

• 3:35Gemma Bath?

  A big part of the defense case is criticizing her psychiatric care and questioning the treatment she was provided. The jury heard from Patrick Clancy, who has publicly forgiven Lindsay earlier in the trial. He told the court she was a devoted mother who experienced a big spiral in her mental health in the December of 2022. Reddington turned to other family and friends to bolster that defense. This was her mother, Paula Musgrove, on the stand.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Did you notice at some point a change in Lindsay's demeanor?

• 4:09Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  Tell the jury when that was.

• 4:13Speaker 02

  It was sometime probably around the second week of October.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  What happened that you noticed?

• 4:19Speaker 02

  I noticed that she was, had become very anxious. She was, she told me she was anxious about going back to work because Callan was having trouble taking a bottle and she didn't feel right about leaving him.

• 4:36Gemma Bath?

  Her mother told the court Lindsay opened up more about her mental health in late October. After that, Paula and her husband visited the family more, often staying with them to give Lindsay more support.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  Through November into December, it was not getting better and into the holidays.

• 4:53Speaker 01

  And you knew she was on medication at that point?

• 4:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  You knew she was seeing doctors at that point?

• 4:58Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  So tell us, is there an incident that came to your mind that you recall that occurred on one evening that indicated to you how seriously she was suffering?

• 5:13Speaker 02

  There were many. One particular evening that was disturbing to me was that, I mean, she was afraid, she was afraid to be alone, and she actually asked if she could sleep with me.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  When was that?

• 5:29Speaker 02

  That was late November, early December.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  And did she indeed sleep with you on that occasion?

• 5:36Speaker 02

  She did.

• 5:37Gemma Bath?

  In mid-December, Paula testified that Lindsay told her and Patrick together that she'd been having thoughts about harming the children.

• 5:46Speaker 02

  I believe I remember Pat asking her if she felt like she couldn't be alone with the children, and she said no.

• 5:53Speaker 03

  And after she made those statements, did you have any thoughts about committing her?

• 6:00Speaker 02

  No.

• 6:02Speaker 03

  Did you have any thoughts about having her come stay with you in Connecticut away from the children?

• 6:08Speaker 02

  No.

• 6:09Gemma Bath?

  This was some of Lindsay's mother-in-law, Susan Clancy's, testimony.

• 6:12Speaker 04

  She was very nurturing, very loving. She was a wonderful mother, wonderful.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  Did you ever see her treat her middle son, Dawson, bad because he didn't like him?

• 6:24Speaker 04

  No.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  Because she loved Dawson, in your opinion?

• 6:26Speaker 04

  She loved her children, all of them, very, very much.

• 6:30Speaker 01

  Did you find that Lindsay was interested at all times, trying to get better and see doctors?

• 6:36Speaker 04

  Very much so.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  Did you find at all, you have an opinion with your observations of Lindsay as to whether or not she was offered help, would just burn it, not see doctors, or not have the treatment?

• 6:48Speaker 04

  She was begging for help.

• 6:50Gemma Bath?

  Over the course of the four months leading up to the killings, Lindsay was prescribed 13 different medications across at least three providers. She went to the ER for suicidal thoughts, called a suicide hotline, and spent five days in inpatient psychiatric care. She was never diagnosed with postpartum psychosis, a condition that affects one to two mums in every 1,000 births. She was instead monitored for bipolar disorder. Psychiatrist Dr. Donald Conde was called by the defense to assess Lindsay's treatment. This is what he had to say about the records he reviewed from one of her main providers.

• 7:29Speaker 05

  They are somewhat sparse and there are many checkboxes in the records, but not a great deal of sentences that describe what was done during sessions.

• 7:48Gemma Bath?

  Psychologist Dr. Paul Zizel gave some of the strongest expert evidence to support the defense. He met Lindsay in the days after the killings and has remained a part of her care team. He said this about psychosis.

• 8:02Speaker 06

  Psychosis is what's considered a major mental health disorder. It's when people have disorganized thinking and the symptoms most typically are hallucinations.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  Can you tell us, is a person, even if they are in the throes of psychosis, are they able to make a phone call?

• 8:23Speaker 06

  Yes, they can.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  Are they able to drive a car?

• 8:25Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  Are they able to say, "Hi, Hawaii, I'd like to have a hot dog"?

• 8:28Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 8:29Gemma Bath?

  He described that someone with psychosis has intermittent symptoms. They can function fine one day and the next day can be hearing voices.

• 8:38Speaker 06

  But she had bipolar disorder with postpartum psychosis. In addition, she was unable to conform her behaviors to the rule of law, and she had no appreciation for the wrongfulness of her act.

• 8:52Gemma Bath?

  In cross-examination, the prosecution questioned whether he could be objective about her diagnosis when he was both seeing her as a patient and working with the defense. Forensic psychiatrist Dr. Philip Resnick also testified that Lindsay was experiencing postpartum psychosis and command hallucinations.

• 9:11Speaker 07

  Not only did she hear a command, but she felt that her body was taken over by an external force, where she were in a dream state and did not have control of her own body. It was almost like she was a puppet and someone else was pulling the strings.

• 9:32Gemma Bath?

  Chaplain at the Brigham and Women's Hospital, Sheila Cavanagh, told the court what Lindsay told her about the voice that told her to kill her kids. Told her that if she did not follow the command, neither she nor her children would be safe. Of the three medical experts called to rebut the defense expert's testimony, evidence given by FBI psychiatrist Dr. Gregory Saathoff was the most damning. He testified that he didn't believe Lindsay heard a voice ordering her to kill her children.

• 10:03Speaker 06

  It was important in order to carry this out, as well as her suicide, to do this quickly, methodically, and the like. And so this is having no instructions as to how to do it, but being able to execute those decisions, including being able to get a phone call and then return it to her husband in the process of all of this. Certainly, the phone call was not expected. That is surprising, that she was able to accomplish all of this without any other kind of direction or plan.

• 10:46Gemma Bath?

  He also questioned Lindsay's claim that the voice stopped after the children were killed. He testified that committing the act is not curative of the voice, and he'd never seen that happen. In closing arguments, the jurors were visibly emotional as both the defense and prosecution closed out their cases.

• 11:06Speaker 03

  She left them discarded on the basement floor like broken toys because she was done playing the game. You know to a moral certainty, she is guilty.

• 11:20Speaker 01

  How does this turn into this? How? Because of the damn medicine and the lousy medical care that she got.

• 11:39Gemma Bath?

  On the next episode of our Lindsay Clancy mini-series, we're going to unpack the verdict when that comes. Thanks for listening to True Crime Conversations. Tomorrow, you'll find a normal episode of our show in your feed, as you do every Thursday. We'll see you there.

• 12:08Gemma Bath?

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