The Lindsay Clancy Mini Series: A World Obsessed

Why is the world so obsessed with the Lindsay Clancy trial? While she admits to the unimaginable act of killing her three children, the public reaction has been unusually complex. Instead of universal vilification, there is a profound wave of sympathy for a mother who sought help for severe postpartum psychosis. In the latest episode of our mini-series tracking the trial, we explore the Prosecution's case and the key evidence that has been presented to the court. LINKS If any of the contents in this episode have caused distress, know that there is help available via Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636. Contact Full Stop Australia https://fullstop.org.au/ on 1800 385 578, 7 days, 24 hours. GET IN TOUCH Follow us on Instagram and TikTok @truecrimeconversations https://www.instagram.com/truecrimeconversations/?hl=en Want us to cover a case on the podcast? Email us at [email protected] mailto:[email protected] or send us a voice note. https://help.mamamia.com.au/en-US/send-a-podcast-voice-note-467960 Make sure to leave us a rating and review on Apple & Spotify to let us know how you're liking the episodes. CREDITS Host & Executive Producer: Gemma Bath Producer: Ella Maitland Video Editor: Julian Rosario Mamamia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which we have recorded this podcast. Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Gemma Bath?

  Hi, I'm Gemma Bath, host of True Crime Conversations. And welcome to our mini-series, Unpacking the Trial of Lindsay Clancy in Massachusetts, the case the entire world can't take their eyes off. We're going to be updating you multiple times a week in this feed as the court proceedings continue to unfold. Just a warning, this episode contains descriptions of violence against children and suicide. In our last episode, we took you through the prosecution's case. Today, we're going to unpack why the world is so obsessed with this trial. The Lindsay Clancy murder trial has captured global attention in a way that's hard to comprehend.

• 0:41Gemma Bath?

  This is a woman who has admitted to killing her three children in an unimaginable way, but has pled not guilty to three counts of first-degree murder, with her defence arguing she is not criminally responsible because she was suffering from severe postpartum psychosis. The reality is, this mother is not being vilified in the same way other mums who kill their kids are. In fact, there's sympathy for her, not because of what she did, let that be clear, because of what she experienced in the lead-up, because of what her defence claims were the systemic failures of her medical providers. But it gets even more nuanced than that, because for many of us, it also feels like

• 1:23Gemma Bath?

  we're watching motherhood being put on trial. Firstly, it's important to acknowledge that we have unfettered access to this trial. Every second of it is being livestreamed on the internet, allowing people to consume it like it's a TV show, and they're treating it like a TV show.

• 1:42Speaker 01

  Lindsay Clancy and Lindsay Clancy's murder trial.

• 1:44Speaker 02

  The Lindsay Clancy trial. Who's Lindsay Clancy?

• 1:47Speaker 03

  So who's Lindsay Clancy? Lindsay Clancy. What the f—

• 1:52Gemma Bath?

  Lindsay's trial has become fodder for amateur sleuths and armchair detectives pushing viral conspiracy theories. But the motherhood element, the postpartum element, this is the side of the trial that's really hitting a nerve. Because when you strip away the horrific crime at the centre of this story, we're watching a postpartum experience, a mother's internal thoughts, the mental load, and the unique experience of being the primary parent, being torn apart by a prosecution on a global stage. The prosecution has shown the jury videos of Lindsay going to water parks and museums with her children while in the depths of postpartum depression. "Look, she's functioning, she's parenting, she's coherent," says the prosecution.

• 2:37Speaker 04

  The Museum of Science in Boston can be crowded and overwhelming on a good day, and she's there with three kids under five with her husband. You see her monitoring them, caring for them, doing the exhibits, showing them what to do with the exhibits. If you watched that video and you didn't know who the Clancy family was, and we ask you, pick out the woman who is depressed, pick out the woman who wants to kill herself, pick out the woman who is about to kill her kids. You couldn't pick her out. She's completely calm. All her behaviours are typical and normal, because she's able to control her behaviour.

• 3:22Gemma Bath?

  But for those of us, myself included, who have experienced postpartum depression, we can see ourselves in that footage. We go about our days, we parent, we work, we run a home, and sometimes we do it all while suffering from ailments that cannot be seen by the naked eye. We also can't help but notice how much Lindsay is doing while having a severe mental health crisis, how much of the household's mental load and the children's care appears to be on her shoulders. There was this testimony from her colleague Andrea Hannigan.

• 3:57Speaker 05

  When she was working, would you guys be working on the night shift, or would you work in the afternoon?

• 4:02Speaker 06

  The night shift.

• 4:03Speaker 05

  Night shift.

• 4:04Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:05Speaker 05

  So when you—did you ever see her go on her phone and access cameras to see what was going on at home with the babies, or anything like that?

• 4:14Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 4:15Speaker 05

  Is that something that she would do on a regular basis, staying in touch with the family and looking at the cameras?

• 4:20Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 4:21Speaker 05

  Did she ever tell you why she was doing that?

• 4:24Speaker 06

  Not specifically.

• 4:26Speaker 05

  Okay. She—to your appearance or to your observation, appeared to be very concerned about her kids, right?

• 4:33Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 4:34Speaker 05

  Did you ever hear her complain that she wanted to leave behind the life that she had and basically move on, something better?

• 4:43Speaker 06

  Oh, no. Lindsay, from the time I met her as a young woman, very much desired to be a mother and have a family.

• 4:52Gemma Bath?

  And this from Cora's preschool teacher, Susan Batolo, who raised a health issue with Lindsay on pick-up.

• 4:57Speaker 07

  At pick-up time, did you have the occasion to see Lindsay Clancy? Yes, I did. And did you have an opportunity to speak with her? Yep, we spoke quickly, and I just was letting her know. And she—she did already know, but we just spoke quickly that she had gone a few times. So you were letting her know about Cora going to the bathroom? Correct. And how did she respond when you told her that? She's—she said—I don't remember exactly the words, but basically that she wasn't glad that she wasn't feeling well, but she already had a doctor's appointment the next day so that she would let them know.

• 5:29Gemma Bath?

  We're quite literally watching the mental load, which up until recently was an invisible thing mainly mothers carried, being stripped bare for all to see. It's important to remember that we are not saying that what Lindsay did is not abhorrent. But so many mothers are struggling to look away from this trial, perhaps because we keep seeing ourselves in Lindsay. Like when a detective read out the diary-style notes Lindsay has been writing on her phone, like this one.

• 5:58Speaker 07

  As with the sleep training, I needed a baby that slept through the night because I simply do not have the opportunity in my life to catch up on sleep. I just don't. If there was a time for me to nap every day, then that may not have been the case, but there really isn't. When Cal naps, I have to take care of Cora and Dawson. That's just how it is. It feels cruel to me that we did not do that to Cal, but the reality is, we did what we had to do.

• 6:21Gemma Bath?

  Or this, from the family's former nanny, showing the level of detail many of us have running continuously in our heads.

• 6:28Speaker 07

  Is this the notebook that you would kind of communicate with her back and forth about Cal and his schedule? It is. And fair to say, she left you pretty detailed instructions— She did. —on his care. Yes, she did. And you were aware that she was very particular about sleep and food and keeping on a schedule, right? Yes. And so that's the purpose of this notebook? Yes.

• 6:48Gemma Bath?

  Or this, when we watched Lindsay grapple with the idea of sleep-training her baby, how she felt like a bad mum but was desperate for sleep, how she worried about what it was doing to her child.

• 6:58Speaker 07

  It says, "Obsessed with his sleep and nap schedule like to the minute." Says, "Hearing him cry for one-plus hours and not intervening just about killed me. I even said the words 'I want to die' to Pat while he was crying. After that, I became obsessed with his sleep and nap schedule like to the minute." That's one of the entries you reviewed and noted? Correct, yes. Page two says, "I also feel like I did it wrong because I did it when he was overtired, so it made it harder. Now I have horrible insomnia and anxiety." You recall reviewing that in the journal? Correct, yes. Page four of the journal says, "Why else I feel guilty?

• 7:43Speaker 07

  He's not really hitting his milestones." Again, that's a page that's not dated in this journal, correct? Correct. Page eight. "I'm completely overwhelmed trying to take care of the three kids. I feel like I'm drowning every day." Again, another page that's not dated.

• 8:06Gemma Bath?

  And then we're watching what for many women is our worst nightmare. A prosecutor seemingly tear those choices and inner thoughts apart, labelling them as controlling and manipulative.

• 8:18Speaker 07

  She was someone who liked to control every little detail of her life, of her family's life. In contrast to pictures you'll see of the doting mother, the dedicated nurse, you'll also see a side of Lindsay Clancy that's different. Somebody extremely controlling, meticulous, and manipulative. The days were laid out with specificity. Strict schedules were expected to be maintained. Food was planned carefully. Sleep was scheduled to the minute.

• 8:58Gemma Bath?

  We can't look away? Because there are many women who have fallen into the depths of postpartum depression, and some that have experienced psychosis. But as the defence pointed out while questioning psychiatrist Dr. Alia Goodheart, the diagnostic tool used by medical professionals barely mentions the former and doesn't mention the latter.

• 9:18Speaker 05

  Rely on, or do you use in your evaluation of patients the Diagnostic Statistical Manual? Vira—the diagnostic—

• 9:27Gemma Bath?

  Diagnoses are based on the criteria that are stated in there.

• 9:32Speaker 05

  Okay, so you do use for diagnosis purposes, what is stated in the DSM, correct?

• 9:41Gemma Bath?

  Yes.

• 9:42Speaker 05

  And it's kind of like a cookbook. I mean, it basically tells you what the ingredients of a particular mental disease or defect would be, right?

• 9:50Gemma Bath?

  Yes.

• 9:51Speaker 05

  And you know that it's basically a group of people that get together and they discuss what should or should not be included in the manual that psychiatrists and psychologists use to diagnose patients, right?

• 10:06Gemma Bath?

  Yes.

• 10:08Speaker 05

  And they try to keep up to date and stay on top of any recent developments, right?

• 10:16Gemma Bath?

  I would just, I don't know.

• 10:18Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 10:19Gemma Bath?

  I can't speak to this.

• 10:20Speaker 05

  That's all right. So here we are in 2026. Not 1928. Is postpartum depression in the DSM?

• 10:34Gemma Bath?

  I think it's a subcategory.

• 10:36Speaker 05

  You think it's a subcategory of what?

• 10:40Gemma Bath?

  Depression.

• 10:42Speaker 05

  Depression. How about psychosis? Postpartum psychosis in 2026? Is that in this manual?

• 10:52Gemma Bath?

  I don't exactly know where it is. This was a woman who, as the defense argued in court, was trying to get the help she desperately needed, who the defense claims was getting fragmented care from providers, who the defense say missed major signs.

• 11:06Speaker 05

  And she went to Women's and Infants Hospital on December 20th, right?

• 11:12Speaker 02

  She did.

• 11:14Speaker 05

  And was she treated at Women and Infants?

• 11:18Speaker 02

  I don't believe so.

• 11:20Speaker 05

  Why not?

• 11:23Speaker 02

  I wouldn't want to speculate or assume, but it seemed to be her intake appointment.

• 11:30Speaker 05

  Her what?

• 11:31Speaker 02

  Her intake appointment.

• 11:32Speaker 05

  Okay. So without assuming or speculating, you referred her to this provider, right?

• 11:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 11:40Speaker 05

  So you have this woman who you know has been seeing Dr. Tufts, a psychiatrist, right?

• 11:47Speaker 02

  Right.

• 11:48Speaker 05

  You knew that. You didn't get access to Tufts records. You didn't know what Tufts was doing, but you knew that for a period of time before she saw you, she was dealing with a psychiatrist, right?

• 11:59Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 11:59Speaker 05

  You knew that she was a woman who had just given birth like five months ago, right?

• 12:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 12:04Speaker 05

  You knew that she was obviously in trouble. She was sick, right?

• 12:09Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 12:10Speaker 05

  You told us that she was suffering from, and your words were, a mental health illness that was very real. And you told her that this will get better. And that was in December of 2022.

• 12:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 12:24Speaker 05

  So when you referred her needing help to this Women's and Infants Program in Rhode Island, and she went because that's what she was told to do, what happened at Women and Infants Program?

• 12:40Speaker 02

  I can't speak to what happened at Women and Infants.

• 12:42Speaker 05

  Why not?

• 12:45Speaker 02

  Because I was not a part of that assessment.

• 12:49Speaker 05

  What does that mean?

• 12:51Speaker 02

  I did not see the assessment and I did not speak with Dr. Diaz.

• 12:57Speaker 05

  Why?

• 13:00Speaker 02

  Lindsay had informed me that she was going to be at the program for two weeks.

• 13:04Speaker 05

  She was hoping to be at the program for two weeks, right?

• 13:08Speaker 02

  She told me she was going to be at the program for two weeks.

• 13:10Speaker 05

  But she was turned away after about eight hours of sitting there in an assessment and sitting in a group session. And she was turned away because of their concern that she was suffering from, well, let me ask you, what was their diagnosis?

• 13:30Speaker 02

  I'm not sure.

• 13:31Speaker 05

  Did you ever find out?

• 13:33Speaker 02

  I have not.

• 13:34Speaker 05

  Does it matter to you as a treating person that, I think your words were, is invested in Lindsay Clancy's care at that time? Did it matter to you why she didn't get accepted into the program?

• 13:46Speaker 02

  It did.

• 13:47Speaker 05

  Why was it?

• 13:49Speaker 02

  I do not know their diagnosis.

• 13:52Speaker 05

  Did you, how many women have you treated that were suffering from postpartum psychosis?

• 14:00Gemma Bath?

  I don't recall. I don't remember, but I think it would stick in my memory. So I don't think that I probably have.

• 14:10Speaker 05

  You don't think you probably have?

• 14:12Gemma Bath?

  I don't, I don't think I have. I haven't seen any. Lindsay even reached out to her mom, desperate for intervention and help.

• 14:21Speaker 04

  Now, you talked about a time when you went to her home and you actually ended up sleeping with her because she didn't want to be alone. Was that that October 20th visit?

• 14:31Speaker 03

  No.

• 14:32Speaker 04

  When was that?

• 14:34Speaker 03

  That was, I can't exactly remember when. I'm going to say probably sometime in November, the latter part of November, maybe the early part of December.

• 14:43Speaker 04

  Did she tell you why she was afraid to be alone?

• 14:46Speaker 03

  She said she was, she just said she was afraid to be alone. And one reason, I believe, she said she didn't know if she was going to be able to sleep, but mainly she was afraid to be alone.

• 14:56Gemma Bath?

  Then there's the fact that while Patrick Clancy told the court she was getting worse, that her health was deteriorating, court testimony shows Lindsay was left alone with the kids on multiple occasions. The family's nanny was also dismissed a month before the killings, putting the majority of caregiving and household duties back onto Lindsay once again. One of the hardest things for many mothers to let go of while watching this is they see a woman, a mother, carrying a load many of us are familiar with, a mother who asked for help. She wasn't suffering silently. It makes us think, if I tell someone I am not okay, what happens next? This trial is putting women's health care on notice. It's putting the mental load on notice.

• 15:40Gemma Bath?

  That's why women are so obsessed with this trial. And in our next episode, we're going to unpack the defense's case. Because the way Lindsay's lawyer, Kevin Reddington, has argued for her is also something many of us can't stop thinking about.

• 15:55Speaker 05

  Just another woman, I guess, that's just going to make an excuse. She's depressed. GAD, general anxiety. Give her a couple of pills, she'll be all right. You know, from looking at the objective evidence in this case, this young lady, believe me, I don't have many clients like that. This young lady did nothing wrong in her life. You can see the Facebook postings. You can see what she indicates about, for example, I just randomly grabbed this one. A son, my prince.

• 16:35Speaker 05

  That they would have you think she killed him first cruelly because she didn't like him. That is repulsive.

• 16:44Gemma Bath?

  Thanks for listening to True Crime Conversations. We'll be back soon.

• 17:02Gemma Bath?

  You know the drill. You pick the couch, pay the deposit, then wait 12 weeks praying it matches the living room. Let's skip that. Mamma Mia is giving one lucky subscriber a $5,000 voucher for B2C furniture to spend on pieces that are in stock and ready to ship right now. High-end style, zero weight. To enter, head to mamamia.com.au/subscribe. You'll unlock all our subscriber-only podcasts, articles, and our fitness app, Move. Already subscribed? You're already in the running. Offer ends October 31st. T's and C's apply.