William Keck

In 2008, tattoo artists Ainjil Chipp and Jonathon Lestelle were building a life together in Las Vegas and preparing for the birth of their son. Ainjil had separated from her husband, William John Keck, whose increasingly erratic and disturbing behavior had plagued their relationship. After learning Ainjil was pregnant with Jonathon’s child, Keck became enraged, threatening to shoot her in the stomach and kill the baby. In the early morning hours of November 3, Keck arrived at Ainjil and Jonathon’s apartment dressed in black and armed with a chainsaw and an AK-47. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss William Keck. Keck used the chainsaw to cut through the apartment door before firing 21 rounds inside the apartment. Witnesses spotted Keck leaving the complex, and investigators arrested him about 90 minutes after the shooting. Evidence recovered by police, along with Keck’s previous threats and Ainjil’s account of years of troubling behavior, helped reveal the jealousy and rage behind the horrific attack. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetime Visit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation information An Emash Digital production See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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• 2:18Speaker 00

  Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 536 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson, and with me as always is my partner in crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

• 2:29Speaker 02

  I'm doing all right, man, and you?

• 2:30Speaker 00

  I'm doing great.

• 2:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:31Speaker 00

  You showed up in a parka today.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  I, you know, sometimes you gotta do things like that.

• 2:37Speaker 00

  You were dressed for the weather. It has chilled dramatically.

• 2:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:41Speaker 00

  Since summer officially ended. Did you see that?

• 2:44Speaker 02

  I've seen that.

• 2:45Speaker 00

  We just passed that.

• 2:46Speaker 02

  Well, but technically, it's just a parka. There's nothing underneath the parka.

• 2:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:51Speaker 02

  You know?

• 2:51Speaker 00

  It's like assless chaps, kind of.

• 2:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:55Speaker 00

  Yeah. You just, nothing under the parka. My wife was not amused at all when you showed up.

• 3:01Speaker 02

  No, she's like, you think you're actually gonna sit in one of my chairs like that? And I'm like, well.

• 3:06Speaker 00

  Not to mention the fact that it's, it's not a long parka, which kind of gave it away right from the beginning. Yeah. All right, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Morgan McGuire jump out at our highest level.

• 3:19Speaker 02

  Look at that, double M.

• 3:21Speaker 00

  Nicole Williamson.

• 3:22Speaker 02

  Hey, Nicole.

• 3:23Speaker 00

  Paula Stephen.

• 3:24Speaker 02

  What's going on, Paula?

• 3:25Speaker 00

  Karen Cruz.

• 3:26Speaker 02

  Cruz.

• 3:27Speaker 00

  Raymond McDumphy.

• 3:29Speaker 02

  McDumphy.

• 3:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:31Speaker 02

  Pray Irish.

• 3:33Speaker 00

  Well, usually when you have an MC in front of it, I would say you're in the right ballpark.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  What if you're working in a club?

• 3:38Speaker 00

  Scottish, Irish.

• 3:39Speaker 02

  You're an MC at the club, like, that's MC, MC Mike on the, on the turntable.

• 3:45Speaker 00

  Probably not Irish.

• 3:48Speaker 00

  And last but not least, Tammy Olson.

• 3:51Speaker 02

  Hey, Tammy.

• 3:52Speaker 00

  And then if we go back into the vault.

• 3:55Speaker 00

  This week, we selected Jody.

• 3:57Speaker 02

  Hey, thanks, Jody.

• 3:58Speaker 00

  So we appreciate the new support, the continued support on Patreon. It's amazing.

• 4:03Speaker 02

  Love it.

• 4:03Speaker 00

  We also had a great PayPal donation from Anna May.

• 4:06Speaker 02

  Look at Anna.

• 4:07Speaker 00

  So thanks to everyone.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 4:10Speaker 00

  So we have a new episode out on True Crime All the Time Unsolved, where we're talking about Terry Fetner. He was stabbed to death in his Greenville, South Carolina apartment during the weekend of Thanksgiving 2000. Dale was recently divorced and had moved into this apartment after his home was damaged by a suspicious fire. So there's, there's a lot to get into. Make sure you check that out. And we dropped a new Patreon episode Saturday night. And it's on John Hillrich, a successful advertising executive, father of two. He was leaving work when he was gunned down in the parking lot structure outside his office.

• 4:51Speaker 00

  Investigators quickly zeroed in on their suspects who had connections to his wife.

• 4:58Speaker 02

  Always had those connections.

• 4:59Speaker 00

  There's connections to be made. And then on Thursday's TCAT, we're talking about Michelle Kenny. She was a kind woman who was known to take people in who were down on their luck. When concerned, neighbors found her stabbed to death inside her apartment. Investigators utilized city traffic camera footage in the area to identify the suspect.

• 5:23Speaker 02

  Think you could ever be one of those people to take in a stranger?

• 5:27Speaker 00

  I think you know the answer to that. I don't even know why you're asking the question. I would love to be, you know, one of those people, but my security concerns prevent me from doing so.

• 5:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. You'd be doing pat downs every time someone came through the door.

• 5:44Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 5:45Speaker 02

  I don't even know what other searches you would be doing.

• 5:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, they, you know, they would involve latex gloves, that's for sure.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  Be nice if you used latex on me, by the way.

• 5:54Speaker 00

  All right, buddy. You ready to get into this episode of True Crime All the Time?

• 5:58Speaker 02

  I'm ready.

• 5:58Speaker 00

  We're talking about William John Keck. After finding out his estranged wife, Angel, was pregnant with her fiance's baby, William Keck plotted revenge. He was armed with a chainsaw and an assault rifle, and he opened fire into the couple's apartment.

• 6:19Speaker 02

  When you say chainsaw, I'm thinking, this is like Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

• 6:22Speaker 00

  Well, that, that seems like a very strange arsenal to have with you, right? An assault rifle, an AR, people have those. A lot of people own those. But to have one of those and then a chainsaw? Okay. In 2003, Angel Chip was in her early twenties, living in Las Vegas. She was pursuing a career as a tattoo artist. In her interview for the show Evil Lives Here, she recalled that things were going well for her at this time. And I would think that would be a great place to be a tattoo artist.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  I would think so, too. Maybe a little competitive, but.

• 7:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, probably.

• 7:06Speaker 02

  If you're a good artist and you make a name for yourself, I think you would do extremely well.

• 7:11Speaker 00

  Well, first of all, there's a ton of foot traffic.

• 7:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:13Speaker 00

  Right in Vegas. And I would think Vegas might be a place that people go, you know, I don't want to say once in a lifetime trip, but on a, you know, nice trip, and they might want to splurge on something like a tattoo.

• 7:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, and if you're out with your buddies or your girlfriends, you know, on the strip, maybe you had a few drinks, you're like, let's all get a tattoo.

• 7:33Speaker 00

  Oh, I think that's a good point, too. You know, there is quite a bit of alcohol consumed.

• 7:38Speaker 02

  And that's how you got your first one.

• 7:41Speaker 00

  Angel's roommate met a young man named William John Keck at a party and invited him back to their apartment. Angel's first impression was that William was good looking. What spurred her interest was the fact that they had a lot in common, and he was artistically talented. She learned William was in the Navy and was on leave and visiting family in Vegas. They talked about his application to join the Navy. William said that in the section where he was asked why he wanted to join the Navy, he wrote, because I want to kill people. Now, he played it off like this was a joke, and Angel laughed it off, despite the fact that she was uncomfortable.

• 8:24Speaker 02

  That would make a lot of people a little uneasy.

• 8:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, because I don't believe that that's what the armed forces want you to say. You might believe it. I don't think they want you to put it down.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:38Speaker 00

  That the reason you're joining is because you want to kill people. Angel and William had a whirlwind romance before he reported back to his naval base in Florida. She visited him several months later, and he surprised her with a proposal. And she said yes. She was excited. She'd be able to see William more often and grow their relationship.

• 9:01Speaker 02

  If you had to do a whirlwind romance today for your wife, what would that whirlwind romance look like? Different than back in the day, I'm sure.

• 9:11Speaker 00

  You mean after 30 years of marriage, or we've just met?

• 9:15Speaker 02

  No.

• 9:16Speaker 00

  In our early twenties?

• 9:17Speaker 02

  After 30 years of marriage.

• 9:19Speaker 00

  Oh, I don't know, but I feel like the whirlwind part is maybe a little past us. We, we still have the romance there, but.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, you sweep the floors every now and then, and it really gets her hot.

• 9:34Speaker 00

  Yeah. It really does, to be honest with you. That's how old we are. Yeah, I don't know. You know, a trip somewhere, something unexpected probably would be the extent of it.

• 9:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:48Speaker 00

  But this is really a whirlwind romance. I mean, they meet, you know, he's proposing in fairly short order.

• 9:57Speaker 02

  Pretty quick.

• 9:59Speaker 00

  According to Angel, William seemed like he had plans in life and things he wanted to achieve. However, he was good at showing you what you wanted to see and not necessarily who he really was. And Gibbs, I really think there are a lot of people out there like this.

• 10:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree with you.

• 10:19Speaker 00

  And I don't think everybody's a con person. I don't think everybody's a killer. I just think a lot of people, you know, they want you to see what they want you to see.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, or they want to show you what they.

• 10:37Speaker 00

  Want to show you? I was like, how is that different than what I just said?

• 10:44Speaker 00

  But I do, I do think, right? A lot of people, you know, are like that. It's not all for nefarious means. Now, it can be.

• 10:52Speaker 02

  Oh, for sure.

• 10:53Speaker 00

  Right? When you're talking about a Ted Bundy or somebody like that. A few weeks after the proposal, William called Angel and told her he had been discharged and was on his way back to Vegas. She asked what happened and he said, he told officials he was hallucinating and had spiders crawling on his arms. He cut his arms with a razor blade. So officials would think he was crazy.

• 11:21Speaker 02

  Well, that's one way to get them to think you might be unstable is to slice your arms because you think there's imaginary spiders on it.

• 11:30Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, they're going to have to do something, right? That's a extreme. If you think back to like the TV show Mash, right? Klinger was always trying to get out of the army.

• 11:43Speaker 02

  He was.

• 11:43Speaker 00

  But he wasn't doing anything like this.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  No.

• 11:46Speaker 00

  Angel said that looking back on the extremes he went to to get out of the military, it is now a huge warning sign for her. She told producers for Evil Lives Here, he lied as easily as he told the truth, which made him very believable.

• 12:04Speaker 02

  That's really scary. And there's people that can do that, right?

• 12:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:07Speaker 02

  People that can look you in the eye and tell you a made up story without missing a beat.

• 12:14Speaker 00

  But, you know, this thought that, okay, the warning signs were there, but people didn't realize it at the time. Now, looking back, obviously it's easy.

• 12:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:26Speaker 00

  To see. I think that happens quite a bit for people, right? You get swept up in a relationship. How often do people maybe overlook some things that they're later going to say, yeah, that should have jumped out at me more. That should have been a red flag. But, you know, everybody knows what it's like when you have this new relationship blossoming.

• 12:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. Be like meeting somebody and then telling you that, how smart they are. They're in Mensa and they got this and that.

• 12:56Speaker 00

  Yeah. They're just, they're just totally swept off their feet or their BS meter shoots into red and they like, I gotta get the heck out of this speed dating thing. I don't even know why I chose to do this. As soon as William got back to Vegas, Angel said they were thrown into chaos with his behavior. He was arrested for a DUI and needed Angel's help getting out of jail. The show didn't provide dates for the DUI charge, but the Las Vegas Review Journal reported that William was arrested in late 2007 for driving under the influence.

• 13:36Speaker 00

  That was later reduced to two counts of reckless driving and one count of bribing a police officer.

• 13:42Speaker 02

  The old bribing the officer.

• 13:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:44Speaker 02

  It normally doesn't work out.

• 13:46Speaker 00

  And I don't think it does nowadays, right? Maybe if you were in the twenties or thirties, maybe. Now, it's not confirmed if these charges were related to or separate from the incident that Angel was referring to in her interview. She said she knew the DUI would make it difficult for William to travel and find work, but she convinced herself that they could still make things work. But as months passed, William spiraled out of control. One evening, Angel came home from work and learned that William broke into an apartment at their complex. He obtained and used a chainsaw in the break in. He was charged with malicious destruction of property.

• 14:32Speaker 02

  Such a strange thing to do, right? I mean, you're gonna, hey babe, uh, I'm in, uh, I've been arrested. Um, I, uh, took someone's chainsaw and I used it to break into one of the apartments here.

• 14:47Speaker 00

  Well, you know, breaking and entering is usually thought of as this kind of sneaky, quiet endeavor.

• 14:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:57Speaker 00

  It's a little tough to be sneaky and quiet when you're using a damn chainsaw.

• 15:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. It takes you five pulls to get it started. You know, if that happens, haven't, that didn't wake everybody up. Now, the cutting into whatever you're cutting into.

• 15:10Speaker 00

  Is gonna be, it's all gonna be loud.

• 15:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:14Speaker 00

  When William was able to talk to Angel about what happened, he made the excuse that he was drunk and high and couldn't really remember what happened. He made her feel as if she needed to be more understanding and empathetic towards him.

• 15:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't think so.

• 15:30Speaker 00

  No, I don't think so either. But again, you know, when people are very manipulative and they're good at doing it, can they make their partner feel as though, even though they're the ones that are doing all the wrong things, it's somehow their partner's fault.

• 15:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:49Speaker 00

  And I think a lot of people do that. And I think that's what William was doing here. Another disturbing incident occurred around the time Angel and William were moving. Angel and her sister went to pick up her cat during their final trip to the old apartment. They were concerned when the cat didn't come out to greet them. They couldn't find her in the apartment and all of the cat's things, such as her bowls, litter box and toys, were missing. They put up flyers around the complex and never heard anything. Angel was devastated.

• 16:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, that's bizarre, right? I mean, if the cat got out, that's one thing. And sad, but where's all the cat toys and litter box and things like that?

• 16:33Speaker 00

  Cause the cat's not gonna take that stuff with them if they somehow sneak out of the door.

• 16:37Speaker 02

  And they don't have a little, uh, carrier that they loaded up and pulling behind them.

• 16:41Speaker 00

  No, but I, I can just imagine how devastating this would be. You know, I've mentioned it before, but my oldest daughter, who now lives with us for a while, she has two cats and I've really grown to love them. And I, she, I don't know how she would function if something happened to one of these cats.

• 17:02Speaker 02

  Oh, it would not be a good day.

• 17:04Speaker 00

  If she thought one was missing. Oh. Sometime later, during an argument between Angel and William, he claimed he took her cat out into the desert and shot her, then threw the cat's things in the dumpster. In the moment, Angel didn't believe it and thought William was just saying something horrible to hurt her. She said in her later interview that this was another sign she missed of how cruel and heartless William really was.

• 17:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. True or not, what a terrible thing to say.

• 17:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's, that's my thought. It's one thing to not believe it. And I get it in an argument, when things get heated, people say things to make the other person feel bad.

• 17:49Speaker 02

  Right.

• 17:50Speaker 00

  But, I mean, even in an argument, this is way over the line.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uncalled for.

• 17:58Speaker 00

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• 19:24Speaker 00

  The final straw for Angel occurred late one evening. It was around midnight and she was lying in bed when William came home. Moments after he got into bed with her, she heard a knock at the door. A police officer was outside. He said he was investigating a break in at a nearby town home. William had tried to break in by shattering the glass door. The resident was a young woman who lived alone. She called the police and scared William off. William claimed he was drunk and he didn't remember which town home was his. He thought he was locked out. So he broke the door. Angel knew this wasn't true and recalled that William entered the house as if

• 20:05Speaker 00

  he was running inside to hide, not like he was drunk. Yeah. So there's obviously a lot of red flags here with William as it pertains to Angel. I think she noticed them later on in the relationship. She might've noticed them earlier on, but just again, when it's so new, I just don't know that you put the weight on some of them that you later would.

• 20:32Speaker 02

  But you probably should. I mean, definitely red flags and I mean, to go from the chainsaw time and now this.

• 20:40Speaker 00

  Pretty concerning.

• 20:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:43Speaker 00

  So William was arrested inside his home that night. Angel said, I believe that he knew exactly what he was doing. And he went there for a purpose. What that purpose was, I couldn't say, but I can guarantee that it was nothing good and likely could have been a lot worse. And that's usually the case, right? This guy breaks in to a town home where a woman is home alone, right? You can just go through all the different scenarios of how badly that situation could have gone. Now, she was able to, you know, call 911, scare him off. That's amazing. She probably either saved

• 21:26Speaker 00

  her life or saved something really bad from happening to her.

• 21:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, it could have turned into more than just robbery, right? Could have been assault, sexual assault.

• 21:36Speaker 00

  Murder. We don't know what his plans were. Angel started preparing to leave the marriage. She found solace in her work and started spending more time with her coworkers at the tattoo shop. And it was during this time that she met a man named Jonathan Lestelle. Jonathan Scott Lestelle was born on March 22nd, 1982. He grew up in Las Vegas with his four sisters in what was described as a loving household. Jonathan was a talented artist. His signature pieces were Gothic in the style of famed director Tim Burton. It must be a very interesting style because Tim Burton is a very interesting guy.

• 22:20Speaker 02

  Extremely interesting.

• 22:21Speaker 00

  And his works are, you know, iconic, but also a little out there, you'd have to say.

• 22:28Speaker 02

  Definitely not mainstream.

• 22:29Speaker 00

  No, I mean, they do become mainstream. You think about Edward Scissorhands.

• 22:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:36Speaker 00

  Who would have ever thought that that type of movie would be as big as it was?

• 22:40Speaker 02

  It was huge, man.

• 22:42Speaker 00

  Jonathan also loved horror movies and was fascinated by special effects makeup. He was happiest when he was drawing or helping out his friends. So Jonathan and Angel had a lot in common. They both loved art, tattoos, and Halloween was their favorite holiday.

• 23:01Speaker 02

  What's your favorite holiday?

• 23:02Speaker 00

  You know, that's a tough one. I think, you know, obviously when I was younger, I would have said Christmas, but now I think it's Thanksgiving.

• 23:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:11Speaker 00

  I really enjoy Thanksgiving. What's yours?

• 23:14Speaker 02

  Festivus.

• 23:15Speaker 00

  I figured. Yeah, I figured that.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  I look forward every year to that person you picked for me to wrestle.

• 23:21Speaker 00

  The feats of strength?

• 23:22Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 23:23Speaker 00

  But here's the thing, right? Jonathan and Angel both had troubled marriages. He was unhappy in his marriage, although his situation was very different from Angel's. He had a three year old son with his ex-wife. Jonathan's ex, Crystal, told the Las Vegas Review-Journal that he was a great man. When he walked into the room, he would make everybody smile. He loved his son. He was a great husband and a great dad. Angel tried to be a friend and give him advice and Jonathan did the same for her. He eventually told Angel that he was in love with her and she felt the same way. They knew they needed to tell their spouses that they no longer wanted to be

• 24:07Speaker 00

  married and they decided they wouldn't move forward with their relationship until they had done so.

• 24:13Speaker 02

  That's the proper way to do it.

• 24:15Speaker 00

  It's the adult way to do it, right? You know, stuff happens.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  It does.

• 24:20Speaker 00

  People fall out of love. They're not happy in their marriage. You and I have talked about it many times, usually in the form of cheating, but also then one person making the decision they need to get rid of their spouse.

• 24:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:37Speaker 00

  So, I mean, you want to talk about the adult thing to do, it's not to start the cheating and then later figure out how to get out of your marriage, right? Get out of it first and then develop a relationship and move forward with that relationship.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  That's the fairest way to whoever you're currently involved with.

• 24:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:59Speaker 02

  And whoever you want to be involved with.

• 25:00Speaker 00

  Right, for it all. Because I always think, how good can a relationship be when it starts on the foundation of both people cheating on their spouses?

• 25:13Speaker 02

  Probably not going to be too good.

• 25:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, I guess it, some of them do, some of them don't, but how could you not at least have a lingering thought that your partner is going to cheat on you because they cheated with you?

• 25:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Good, very good point.

• 25:30Speaker 00

  The next day, Angel met with William to tell him she wanted to end the marriage, but the conversation didn't go how she thought it would. It actually went much better than she prepared herself for.

• 25:42Speaker 02

  And when that happens, are you like, damn it, I really feel like he wants to be out of this?

• 25:49Speaker 00

  You thought it was, he was going to take it harder or he was going to put up more of a fight. William said he also wanted to talk to her about something. He felt that the spark between them had been dwindling and he wanted to end the marriage. Angel told him she felt the same. She was surprised, but she had no reason to think William wasn't being sincere. So either, right, he sensed what was about to happen and he went on the offensive and he wanted to be the dumper instead of the dumpy.

• 26:24Speaker 02

  Some people do that.

• 26:25Speaker 00

  And that does happen. Or, you know, maybe he really was feeling that way. So over the next year, Angel maintained her friendship with William and continued dating Jonathan. And I think that's something that doesn't always happen, is not able to happen, right? People are very jealous. They're not happy because the relationship ended, but if he wanted to end the relationship as well, can the two of them, you know, end it amicably and remain friends?

• 27:00Speaker 02

  I think it's always going to be tough to remain friends after you've been in a relationship like that.

• 27:07Speaker 00

  But some people do it.

• 27:08Speaker 02

  But some do, and if you can, that's great, especially if you have kids together.

• 27:11Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, that's, that's even a bigger deal.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, but outside of that, yeah, I think it would be hard to do, but also it depends on the person you're moving into a new relationship with. Can they handle that?

• 27:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, because that could be tough on that person as well.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 27:28Speaker 00

  In the summer of 2008, Jonathan finished an apprenticeship and became an official tattoo artist. And this was his lifelong dream. His coworkers noted that he was more than just a talented artist. He also had a way of putting nervous customers at ease.

• 27:45Speaker 02

  That's probably important in that business. I'm sure they're like scared of that needle that's going to go in and out of them for about a thousand times in the next hour.

• 27:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't, I do not have a tattoo. I have thought about it a couple of times. I do think I'd be very nervous, although people say, ah, it doesn't hurt as bad as you think it's going to, but it looks pretty painful to me.

• 28:09Speaker 02

  I think you need to get one of the old time tattoos where they take the hammer and they hit the needle, you know, that way. Or we get you a prison pass. You go in just for a weekend.

• 28:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, because everybody wants to do that.

• 28:25Speaker 02

  And you get a prison tattoo with the, with the homemade tattoo system that they have. That'd be the way to do it.

• 28:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, why don't I just skip the tetanus and the hepatitis and just go to my local tattoo shop?

• 28:37Speaker 02

  Well, then you really would appreciate.

• 28:40Speaker 00

  If I survive, yeah, I would appreciate the, uh, the tattoo. In July 2008, Angel found out she was pregnant with Jonathan's baby. They were happy, but nervous. And, and I don't know that that's a, a feeling that a lot of people don't have. Right. It's exciting. It's, it's a happy occasion, but it can also make people nervous. Right. Are we ready for this? At this point, they're not married. Maybe that factored into it as well. There's always the, the money aspect.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. It takes your relationship to a new level, takes your finances to a new level. Responsibility, all that.

• 29:21Speaker 00

  Yeah. You're giving up a large chunk of yourself and you're, you're devoting it to a child. That's essentially what has to happen. Soon after she found out she was pregnant, Angel got a call from William. He asked if she was pregnant and he was pretty aggressive over the phone. He said some cruel things to her and he threatened to shoot her in the stomach. Angel was shocked because she didn't expect him to lash out the way he did. But she thought he was just saying things to be hurtful.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  That is hurtful.

• 29:58Speaker 00

  Well, it's very hurtful. It's also illegal, right? You can't threaten to shoot people.

• 30:03Speaker 02

  Right.

• 30:03Speaker 00

  But to me, this all goes back to how the relationship ended. She definitely wanted out, but did he really want out? Or did he just see the writing on the wall and think, well, I'm going to say this before you do.

• 30:22Speaker 02

  And did it make it worse that she continued to allow that relationship as a friend to move forward?

• 30:29Speaker 00

  Or is that what his ultimate goal was? He knew the relationship was going to end, but he wanted to stay close enough to her that he could keep his eye on her possibly. Angel and Jonathan celebrated Halloween together and we, and I mentioned it, right? It was their favorite holiday. They were both at, you know, a very happy point in their lives.

• 30:54Speaker 02

  They loved each other. They're having a baby together. It was like, you know, and career wise, they were doing well.

• 31:01Speaker 00

  And also Jonathan's divorce had just been granted. Everything was moving forward as expected. The next step was starting the process for Angel's divorce. By Halloween weekend, Angel was 18 weeks pregnant and she already knew that she was having a boy. And the baby had started kicking and moving.

• 31:21Speaker 02

  Oh, good times right there.

• 31:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, I remember those times, you know, it was 20 plus years ago, but when you put your hand there and you feel that baby moving around or kicking, it's one of the happiest feelings in the world.

• 31:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, it really makes it, uh, more real.

• 31:40Speaker 00

  Oh yeah, absolutely. William called Angel shortly before Halloween. He was friendly, asked how she was doing and wished her a happy Halloween. She noticed he was asking a lot of questions that seemed innocent in the moment, but she later realized that he would use that information to plan the attack against her and Jonathan.

• 32:04Speaker 02

  Pretty, uh, conniving.

• 32:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's very calculated, right? He, everything he's doing, he's doing for a reason. But this guy definitely had a pattern, right? He, he would be friendly and then he would be aggressive and then he would be friendly again. On the night of November 2nd, 2008, Angel and Jonathan watched a movie together at their apartment. They went to bed around 1:10 a.m. on November 3rd. Shortly after they settled in bed, they heard what sounded like power tools in the hallway outside their apartment. They ran out of the bedroom and saw a chainsaw coming through the door. Jonathan told Angel to call 911.

• 32:49Speaker 00

  And I, I can think of a lot of horrific scenes to kind of wake up to.

• 32:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:55Speaker 00

  Right? Number ones, you realize somebody's in your house. That's unbelievably scary. Another scary thing would be seeing a chainsaw coming through your door.

• 33:06Speaker 02

  I would feel like I'm in the middle of a nightmare or something. Maybe I didn't even wake up. Did I take too much magnesium before I went to bed or is this really happening?

• 33:15Speaker 00

  The next thing you'd be saying is, oh, I gotta pee again.

• 33:21Speaker 00

  Because you have a bladder the size of a cashew.

• 33:26Speaker 02

  Not very big, you mean?

• 33:27Speaker 00

  No, it's not.

• 33:31Speaker 00

  No, but a scary thing, scary sight, right? Jonathan moved towards Angel as the bullets started coming into the apartment. He tried to push her out of the way. William had come to their apartment in the middle of the night, dressed in black and armed with a chainsaw and an AK-47 rifle. He used the chainsaw to cut a hole in the apartment door and then fired 21 rounds through the hole before fleeing the scene. When the shooting started, Angel recalled falling backwards and feeling like she was being punched all over her body before she hit the ground. The bullets kept coming and then all of a sudden it was quiet.

• 34:16Speaker 00

  Cause we've discussed it, right? You fire, especially in AK-47.

• 34:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:22Speaker 00

  Inside of an apartment, it is going to be loud as all get out.

• 34:27Speaker 02

  And there's 21 rounds. It's not going to take very long, is it?

• 34:30Speaker 00

  Well, as fast as you can pull the trigger.

• 34:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:33Speaker 00

  It didn't really say, but I'm assuming this was a semi-automatic AK-47. Not like, you know, you see in, in the militaries of other places in the world where they have the selector switch to make it full automatic. But still, if you just wiggle your finger back and forth, I mean, that's how quickly you can shoot.

• 34:56Speaker 02

  Maybe under 30 seconds.

• 34:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, very quickly.

• 34:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:59Speaker 00

  To, to squeeze out 20 rounds.

• 35:01Speaker 02

  But however long it did take, it would feel like an eternity. Knowing that those bullets are coming at you and you don't know when they're going to stop.

• 35:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, definitely. And then also this description she gave of feeling like she was being punched all over her body. Angel realized she was still on the line with 911 and was eventually able to give the address to the operator who stayed on the line with her until first responders arrived. A detective told Angel that witnesses saw a red Honda Civic leaving the parking lot. She knew right away that it was William. And I'm assuming that the chainsaw might've at least given her an early hint.

• 35:47Speaker 02

  I would think so, since that was his, uh, chosen breaking in building, uh, tool.

• 35:52Speaker 00

  You gotta think, how many people do I know who have used chainsaws to try to get into somebody's house? According to the Las Vegas Review-Journal, around 1:10 a.m., a security guard in the apartment complex heard suspicious noises and came across a man dressed in black, armed with an AK-47. He pointed the rifle at the guard who ran for cover and called 911. And I'm telling you right now, if somebody points an AK-47 at you,

• 36:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:25Speaker 00

  you should get to cover.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  Drop, drop and, uh, roll?

• 36:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, like you're on fire. I don't know. Try to get behind something heavy that might be able to stop a bullet because, you know, that, that 762 round that comes out of an AK, it's, it's no joke.

• 36:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:42Speaker 00

  It's a serious round. And I'm sure this security guard probably wasn't even armed. I don't know if he was or not, but more than likely he wasn't. And even if he was, you really don't want to battle someone, uh, with an AK-47 with your pistol.

• 37:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. If you don't have to, you're going to run away, like you said, get coverage.

• 37:05Speaker 00

  Makes me think of that, the, the great Taylor Sheridan line from Lioness where they're talking about what's the pistol for? It's to make your way back to your rifle.

• 37:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:16Speaker 00

  Which I thought was a great line. A neighbor who asked to remain anonymous also said he heard the chainsaw and gunshots from across the hall. He saw William through his bedroom window calmly walking to a red Honda Civic and driving away. The door had been sawed around the doorknob and he could see bullet holes in the walls, couch and ceiling. Jonathan Lestelle was found dead from multiple gunshot wounds in the back bedroom. A dog in the apartment was also killed during the shooting. Angel was rushed to the hospital for life-saving surgery. Give, she had been shot eight times.

• 37:58Speaker 00

  Twice in the right leg, twice in the left leg, once in the groin area, once in the left arm, once in the chest and once in the right hand.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  And that's exactly what she was describing, what she felt.

• 38:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, being punched, right? All over her body. Angel told the show Evil Lives Here. I don't think he anticipated that I would survive.

• 38:22Speaker 02

  I, I don't think anybody would think that after hearing how many times she was shot.

• 38:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, most people who get shot eight times do not live. I would think the percentages probably would prove that out. I don't have any data in front of me, but you look at where she was shot and those do seem to be, you know, fairly survivable. Now, if you get hit in the leg, it depends on where you get hit, right? If you get hit in the femoral artery.

• 38:52Speaker 02

  You're done.

• 38:53Speaker 00

  You're probably gonna bleed out.

• 38:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:55Speaker 00

  And die.

• 38:55Speaker 02

  And she got lucky where she got hit in the chest.

• 38:58Speaker 00

  Yes, had to. Angel woke up in the ICU on November 4th and learned Jonathan was dead. And that she had lost her unborn baby. The fetus was struck by at least one bullet during the attack, per the review journal. Angel said in her documentary interview, waking up to finding out that you're more alone than you've ever been in your entire life. I don't think that feeling ever really leaves.

• 39:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, she probably went from her happiest time in her life to now this, the worst time in her life. She lost the person she loved and she lost his baby.

• 39:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's gonna be rough. When you wake up and you find out that you're alive, but these other very important people, one of which you hadn't even met yet, is, you know, gone from your, your life.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  And also including what I assume is her dog.

• 40:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, hers or Jonathan's, we don't know. But I'm sure a dog that she had, you know, cared for deeply.

• 40:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:07Speaker 00

  Angel told the police that she was separated from William and that before the shooting, he had threatened to kill her baby. So William was arrested about an hour and a half after the shooting at the apartment. He shared with his brother. Police collected gunshot residue from his hands and confiscated some of his clothing. Investigators also found an empty box of rifle bullets in his apartment. And to me, this goes back to the chainsaw, right? The burglary was one thing, because you're gonna make a lot of noise when you start firing an AK-47. So using the chainsaw, you're not really looking for stealth anyway.

• 40:51Speaker 00

  But then he just kind of saunters back to his car and calmly drives off. It's like he, he didn't have a care in the world whether he got spotted or, you know, how many witnesses saw him do what he did.

• 41:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think he felt like, I came there to do something, I did it, now I'm gonna go home.

• 41:12Speaker 00

  Well, and obviously he had to know, right, that he was going to be one of the first individuals looked at. William told police he was deeply in love with Angel, but dated other women after they separated. He claimed he was on various medications, but he did not think they affected him in a negative way. He was charged with murder, attempted murder, and battery with a deadly weapon resulting in bodily harm. Authorities said that per Nevada statute, William would not be charged with the murder of the unborn baby because the fetus had not reached 25 weeks gestation and was not considered viable.

• 41:54Speaker 00

  And to me, that seems like a, like a very strange rule, statute, law. I feel like if you kill an unborn child in some type of shooting or, or something like this, you should be charged with that, that death as well, or that murder.

• 42:13Speaker 02

  When you come out and say, I'm gonna kill that baby.

• 42:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, he meant to.

• 42:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:18Speaker 00

  That was part of his plan. However, on November 5th, Clark County DA David Roger said lawyers in his office reviewed the case and determined they would pursue an additional charge of manslaughter, killing of an unborn quick chop against William. So basically prosecutors researched the definition of unborn quick chop. And according to DA Roger, it is any movement of a fetus in a mother's womb.

• 42:49Speaker 02

  Well, we know the baby was kicking, so definitely movement.

• 42:54Speaker 00

  After the arrest, Angel's coworker Patrick Von Doom said that she had been receiving harassing phone calls at work. He told the review journal that when the shooting happened, William was the first person to come to mind. Who would do such a thing? And that's never good, right? When something bad happens and you're the first person who comes to mind to a bunch of different people. Well, that means that you're not a great guy.

• 43:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:25Speaker 00

  And some of the things that you've done in the past have put a real stain on people's impressions of you.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  Now they're gonna be like, I always thought that guy could have done something like this.

• 43:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, but what a kick ass name, Von Doom. Guy's last name was Von Doom.

• 43:43Speaker 02

  I almost feel like that's a name to be a tattoo artist.

• 43:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're right. Not a bad name for a, a tattoo artist or like a Marvel villain.

• 43:55Speaker 02

  Isn't there, I think there, I feel like there is a Marvel villain name.

• 43:59Speaker 00

  Well, there's something Doom. I don't, it's not Von Doom.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, Von Doom would be another good name for like your online screen name.

• 44:06Speaker 00

  Okay. All right, that's, I know that's an arena you dabble in. You have to have a bunch of different screen names

• 44:15Speaker 00

  a multitude of reasons.

• 44:18Speaker 00

  By December 2008, Angel had not yet regained full use of her fingers. But she played the keyboard with her rock band Pegasus in her first performance since the shooting. She told the Las Vegas Sun, the way the artistic community has come out of the woodwork to help somebody, whether they knew us or not, is overwhelming. And I think that's a great word to use, right? I'm frequently overwhelmed when we do some of these stories where you talk about not just friends and family, but people in the community who have no connection to missing individuals. In this case, someone who was hurt, severely hurt in a shooting.

• 45:04Speaker 00

  People just, they wanna help.

• 45:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, good people out there.

• 45:08Speaker 00

  Angel said that practicing with the band was helping her regain use of her fingers and her arms and also helped her get out of the house.

• 45:17Speaker 02

  So all kind of therapy sessions right there.

• 45:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think it probably would be good therapy. She also expressed dismay at the way she and Jonathan had been portrayed since the murder and said, I've been keeping an eye on the news and quite honestly, this story has gotten so twisted and mixed up. I hate the idea of people portraying it as if we were adulterers. That wasn't the case. We were long since broken up with our spouses and we're working towards trying to get married ourselves. We were pregnant and the baby wasn't an accident by any means. That baby was planned. That baby was very much wanted. I can't stomach the idea of people thinking that we were lying or anything like that.

• 46:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think we were upfront about how the fact that they did tell their spouses that, you know, they wanted to be out of their current relationship before they got into their relationship. But let's just say, even if that didn't happen, it still doesn't give somebody the right to go in and kill somebody and try to kill somebody else because they're not happy with the current state of affairs.

• 46:29Speaker 00

  No, it definitely doesn't, but I think this is what you see in many, many cases, right? The online posters, you know, no matter what form it, it's in, Facebook, Twitter, whatever. I think it's the inclination of a lot of people to jump to conclusions and wanna put stuff out there. And unfortunately, a lot of times it's really negative.

• 46:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's true.

• 46:57Speaker 00

  Even towards the victims.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:59Speaker 00

  And you know how you and I feel, it's okay if you wanna be negative against the killers, that's fine. But to just assume that these people were doing something wrong when you don't know all the facts. I think that can be very hurtful.

• 47:13Speaker 02

  It can be. Right now, there's a handful of our listeners are going, Mike, Twitter hasn't been around for over maybe two years.

• 47:21Speaker 00

  X, whatever you wanna call it. I haven't been on either one of them in quite a while.

• 47:27Speaker 00

  On April 17th, 2009, William was ordered to stand trial on the murder and attempted murder charges. On May 8th, prosecutors announced that they would seek the death penalty. William went to trial in the summer of 2012. After a two-week trial, William was convicted of five counts, including first-degree murder, attempted murder, and manslaughter, killing of an unborn, quick child. And I'll be honest with you, I've never heard that term before in my life.

• 47:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:57Speaker 00

  The defense suggested that William suffered from a mental disorder. Angel testified that before the shooting, William threatened to shoot her in the stomach and kill her baby. Prosecutors accused William of faking his mental illness. Witnesses during the penalty phase, including Angel, testified that William got an early discharge from the Navy by pretending to hear voices and harming himself. And she said he was proud that he duped the Navy and even had Section 8 tattooed on his arm, indicating a discharge for mental illness.

• 48:34Speaker 02

  I'm not surprised that his defense would attempt this in hopes to get the death penalty off the table.

• 48:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, it's not a bad thing to try, but I think the problem that William had is this record that people could speak to of, you know, possibly faking mental illnesses or, you know, the things he did to try to get out of the Army, the things that he did during his life where, you know, he said one thing to make people feel a certain way while his intentions were something completely different. During closing arguments, the prosecution said William intended to kill Angel, Jonathan, and their unborn baby when he went to the

• 49:25Speaker 00

  apartment in the early hours of November 3rd, 2008. He also believed Jonathan's three-year-old son was in the apartment, but he was with a relative. The prosecution closed by suggesting jurors might have a hard time imagining the fear and pain Angel and Jonathan felt as they were being shot and played Angel's 911 call. The blasts from the AK-47 rifle were audible in the recording. The 911 operator pleaded with Angel for her address while Angel and Jonathan screamed as they were shot. Angel said repeatedly, "Help, somebody

• 50:07Speaker 00

  help me, please." Jonathan made a gargling sound, which was him choking on his own blood. Angel continued begging for help, and the 911 operator continued asking for an address. Finally, Angel heard the 911 operator and gave the address.

• 50:26Speaker 02

  There's a, that's gonna be a tough thing to defend as a defense attorney after hearing that.

• 50:34Speaker 00

  Well, I think it's gonna be very powerful for the jury, right? Very emotional, very powerful. So to your point, yeah. How are you gonna spin that? I don't even, I don't even know if it's possible, other than to say, well, my client wasn't in his right mind. Pretty tough to say he didn't do these things.

• 50:55Speaker 02

  That's for sure.

• 50:57Speaker 00

  During the two-day penalty phase, William told the court he felt shame and remorse, saying, "If I said I was sorry, I would expect to be beaten. There is no sorry for murder. There can be no apology to erase agony. There can only be atonement or intent thereof." The Review Journal noted that he was still facing charges in federal court for an unrelated assault at Lake Mead of a man he believed was hitting on his then-girlfriend. This guy had a ton of issues with his temper, to say the least. He had a lot of different issues, but that was definitely one. He was an aggressive person. He had a very aggressive personality.

• 51:40Speaker 02

  And I feel like, you know, what he said in court about feeling shame and remorse, I kind of go back when he met Angel at first, how he was a smooth talker. You know, he knew how to say things.

• 51:56Speaker 00

  Well, I think he knew what people wanted to hear.

• 51:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I think that's what he's doing here.

• 51:59Speaker 00

  I think it is as well, but I do agree with him that, you know, is an apology at this point really gonna do anything? I would say no.

• 52:09Speaker 02

  I don't think so.

• 52:11Speaker 00

  First of all, the family's probably not even gonna believe it, that it's real. The jury had four choices for sentencing, including death, life without parole, life with the possibility of parole after 20 years, or 20 to 50 years in prison. And those are all very different sentences.

• 52:33Speaker 02

  And I can only see two that I think should apply.

• 52:36Speaker 00

  And I'm assuming those are death or life without parole, because that's the way I see it. During closing arguments, the defense asked the jury to cross out the last two choices. Deputy Public Defender Ed Kane said, as quoted by the Review Journal, "Billy Keck should never walk free from jail again." And that's such a strange thing to hear coming from the defense. In a dramatic moment, Deputy Public Defender Jeff Banks berated William and said, "How dare you, Billy Keck, do that to those people?" Not, again, not something you expect to come from the defense side. Banks continued, "What he did was horrible,

• 53:20Speaker 00

  terrible, and inexcusable, and no one in this room thinks otherwise." But Banks argued there were mitigating factors the jury should consider, including mental health issues. He said, "I'm asking you to lock Billy Keck up in a cage and throw away the key and let God decide when to take him out."

• 53:41Speaker 02

  I can see why the defense attorney said what they did. They're doing that thing where they're like, "Yeah, he's a, he's a, he's a bad guy. I can't, as a matter of fact, I can't stand him. I really can't stand him. So I think you guys should send him away, and he should be away in prison for the rest of his life. And I don't think he should get the death penalty. I don't think we want to play that card."

• 54:02Speaker 00

  But I think you're right, Gibbs. I think this was very calculated. You know, we're gonna come out and say as the defense, "Yeah, our client is horrible. What he did was horrible." So, you know, just cross those, the lesser of the two off, right? He doesn't even deserve those. Those are too low. But we don't think he should get the death penalty. Very calculated. On July 12th, 2012, the jury sentenced William to death. On September 10th, the judge formally sentenced William to death and added 30 to 95 years of prison time for four other convictions, including attempted murder and manslaughter. William apologized and said he hoped the sentence

• 54:46Speaker 00

  would help the victims and their families find closure. He then turned his attention to Angel, saying, "It's hard to express my remorse for what happened, and my main address now is for Angel to know, I didn't want this to happen. I hope she knows truly that it's fully beyond anything I wanted to happen. I failed you as a husband, and I couldn't protect you, and I couldn't make you happy. I always love you. I hope every day you find happiness."

• 55:14Speaker 02

  It's kind of a bullshit thing to say, right?

• 55:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's my, that was my exact thought. You have to believe that she was sitting there the whole time thinking, "What are you even saying?"

• 55:26Speaker 02

  Right.

• 55:27Speaker 00

  You are so full of it. How can you say, "This was not my intention"? Gibbs, when you chainsaw a door, make a hole, and shoot an AK-47 21 times into an apartment?

• 55:41Speaker 02

  There's your intention.

• 55:42Speaker 00

  It's pretty hard to say that killing people was not your intention. Angel left court soon after William mentioned her name and declined to comment after the hearing. Years later, in her interview for the show Evil Lives Here, Angel spoke about how the loss still affects her, saying, "The loss lives in you like a scream. You can't scream all the time." And what a description.

• 56:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 56:09Speaker 00

  You want to scream, it's in there, but you can't get it out, and it's just there all the time.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  How terrible would that be?

• 56:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, just a horrible way to have to live your life in something that she obviously didn't deserve. Angel said about William, "The worst kind of evil is when it comes from somebody you thought you could trust. So you're asking me if I think that William is evil? I think he's the definition of it." And it's hard to argue with that. Also, it is, in some ways, I would think, Gibbs, even harder to take when something like this is perpetrated by someone you loved, someone you, you thought you were quote-unquote "still friends with,"

• 56:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:59Speaker 00

  Someone you thought you could trust.

• 57:01Speaker 02

  Makes you, uh...

• 57:04Speaker 02

  Question your own judgment, I think.

• 57:05Speaker 00

  Well, you don't expect this to happen or to come from anybody, but you certainly don't expect it to come from people who are in your life. William continues to appeal his conviction and it doesn't appear that an execution date has been set. So as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, I mean, there, there was a lot, in my opinion, going on with this guy. I don't know if he had any mental health issues or if he was, as has been alleged, kind of faking them when he felt as though he needed to, right? Whether it was to get out of the military or after he was caught for this.

• 57:50Speaker 00

  But I do think he was a real manipulator. And I felt like he's the type of person who is probably, you know, gaslighting his girlfriend or wife all the time.

• 58:04Speaker 02

  Narcissist.

• 58:06Speaker 00

  Narcissist, for sure. Always kind of turning it around on the other person, right? Making it feel as though whatever is going wrong is their fault, right? A person who just refuses to take any ownership.

• 58:22Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 58:24Speaker 00

  In, in the things that, that they've done.

• 58:26Speaker 02

  And he was good at love bombing her at the very beginning, making her think, this is the guy.

• 58:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:32Speaker 02

  This is him.

• 58:34Speaker 00

  And also when things started to go bad, you know, maybe he would try to reel her in by being that guy again.

• 58:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:42Speaker 00

  And it worked, I think, for a while. But eventually she figured out who he was and, and that he wasn't somebody that she wanted to be with. But he couldn't even take that, right? He had to figure out a way to stay in her life somehow. And I really do think it was because he wanted to keep tabs on her. He wanted to know what was going on with this new man in her life. And then, once he found out that she was having this baby, I think at some point, he started putting a, a plan in motion to kill everybody.

• 59:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that was the final straw for him.

• 59:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:20Speaker 02

  That she was gonna have a family with somebody else.

• 59:23Speaker 00

  But definitely a very evil individual. That's it for our episode on William Keck. We got a voicemail, you wanna check that out?

• 59:32Speaker 02

  Let's hear it.

• 59:33Speaker 03

  Hi, Mike and Gibby, it's Kaylee from Ottawa calling. Um, I'm actually a small town, kind of east of Ottawa, South Rock. And there was actually a man that might be staying and was bound to see, his name was Robert Rebo. Um, so far, I think there are five people that are responsible for his murder. And I know you have a long list of podcast episodes going, uh, but I'm just calling to add to it, because I think it would be cool, uh, to hear your, your take on this small town drama. Um, yeah, anyways, love you guys. Uh, thanks so much for being here. You guys are awesome.

• 1:00:15Speaker 03

  I'll continue listening as long as you're putting out episodes. Bye.

• 1:00:20Speaker 00

  All right, love you too, and we will definitely check that out. It sounds fascinating.

• 1:00:24Speaker 02

  It really does. We appreciate it.

• 1:00:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of True Crime All The Time. So for Mike.

• 1:00:32Speaker 02

  And Gibby.

• 1:00:33Speaker 00

  Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.