Pod Insights True Crime All The Time Todd Kendhammer About this episode On the morning of September 16th, 2016, Todd Kendhammer called 911 to report that his wife, Barbara, had been seriously injured in an accident. He claimed a pipe fell off a passing truck, flew through their windshield, and hit Barbara, causing fatal injuries. Investigators didn’t think his story added up.
Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Todd Kendhammer and the death of his wife, Barbara. Investigators became suspicious of Todd very early on. Surveillance video captured the Kendhammer vehicle, but not the truck passing in the opposite direction. A witness said they saw the call just minutes before the 911 call was made, and there was no damage to the windshield.
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1:46 Speaker 00 Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 448 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson, and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you? Hey, I'm doing good. How about you? Doing great, man. I'm having a... Banger of a week.
2:01 Speaker 01 A banger?
2:02 Speaker 00 A banger.
2:03 Speaker 01 Okay.
2:04 Speaker 00 I don't know if that's a saying. I don't know. I'm using it.
2:08 Speaker 01 You use that word banger.
2:09 Speaker 00 Much like you did on our Patreon episode with ASstat.
2:14 Speaker 01 ASstat, that's right.
2:15 Speaker 00 A combination of stat and ASAP.
2:17 Speaker 01 They all know what I'm talking about.
2:19 Speaker 00 Speaking of our Patreon episode, we have a new one out that dropped Saturday night. It's on Patrick Gillum. Very interesting case where, you know, he committed a murder, was caught over three decades later.
2:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:33 Speaker 00 With like a microscopic amount of DNA. It's a very fascinating DNA type of case.
2:40 Speaker 01 Yeah, nano micro.
2:41 Speaker 00 Or, yeah, or as you would call it nano micro. We also have a new episode out on True Crime All The Time Unsolved, where we're talking about Paul Baker, who went missing from his home in March 1987. You know, we're now over 30 some years later, he still has not been found.
2:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:58 Speaker 00 But this is a case where, you know, they have someone, I think that many people believe, is responsible for Paul's disappearance. And this person remains a person of interest. They just hadn't been able to put it all together.
3:13 Speaker 01 Yeah. Hopefully one day.
3:15 Speaker 00 Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Echo Thomas.
3:18 Speaker 01 Hey Echo.
3:20 Speaker 00 Robin Sams.
3:21 Speaker 01 Hey Robin.
3:22 Speaker 00 Chris Lind.
3:23 Speaker 01 What's going on, Chris?
3:23 Speaker 00 Ren.
3:24 Speaker 01 Well, there's Ren.
3:25 Speaker 00 Richard Handler.
3:27 Speaker 01 Well, thank you. You know what your real name is.
3:31 Speaker 00 Kendall Coleman.
3:32 Speaker 01 Hey Kendall.
3:33 Speaker 00 Kendall.
3:34 Speaker 01 Oh, there's the other Kendall.
3:35 Speaker 00 Sierra Mitchell.
3:36 Speaker 01 Ah, see, I like, see, I like that name, Sierra. Always have. Yeah.
3:40 Speaker 00 Like the truck.
3:41 Speaker 01 That's true. Yeah.
3:43 Speaker 00 Missy Bishop.
3:44 Speaker 01 Hey, Missy.
3:44 Speaker 00 And last but not least, Cinda Sharp.
3:47 Speaker 01 That's because Cinda's really sharp.
3:48 Speaker 00 And then if we go back into the vault. This week, we selected Elica. Well, thanks, Elica. So I appreciate all the support that we get. Do. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All The Time? Yeah, I am. We're talking about Todd Kendhammer. On the morning of September 16th, 2016, Todd Kendhammer called 911 to report that his wife Barbara had been seriously injured in an accident. He claimed that a pipe fell off a passing truck, flew through their windshield and hit Barbara, causing fatal injuries. But investigators, you know, came to think that his story just didn't add up.
4:31 Speaker 00 But sounds scary, man. Well, it's something that is plausible, right? It could happen. Could. It is very scary. You think you're just driving down the road. Something falls off a truck. You know, everybody's going 70, 80 miles an hour. Whatever that object is, it hits your windshield. It could do some very serious damage. It's coming at you. Todd and Barbara met in 1989, when they were both 16 years old. Todd would later testify that he fell in love with Barbara at first sight, saying, "Just one of those things where you know immediately that's the girl you want." You've been there. I have been there.
5:14 Speaker 00 And 30 years, 30 plus years later, we're still together. There you go. How about that? You still look at her the same way. Yeah. Todd and Barbara got married in August, 1991. They had a son named Jordan and a daughter named Jessica. Jessica and Jordan told 48 Hours that their parents were deeply in love. They said Todd was always on the go and Barbara always wanted to be with him. They didn't argue more than any other couple. And according to Jessica, "Whatever my mom wanted, my dad gave it to her." Jessica also said, "They were just in a really good time in their lives because they had their first grandchild and they were well off."
5:58 Speaker 00 So what do you make of that, Gibbs?
6:01 Speaker 01 It sounds like they really loved each other. They were happy. It's not a situation you would think one would want to kill the other.
6:07 Speaker 00 No, not as, you know, their daughter described them. Barbara worked in the cafeteria at a middle school in West Salem, Wisconsin. Todd worked at a factory that produces soda cans. He and Barbara flipped houses on the side. Todd also had a side job replacing car windshields. All right. It seemed like they got a lot of stuff going on.
6:29 Speaker 01 Yeah, they got a lot of side hustles going on.
6:32 Speaker 00 And, you know, flipping houses can be very profitable.
6:36 Speaker 01 It can be.
6:36 Speaker 00 If you're good at it.
6:38 Speaker 01 Also can.
6:39 Speaker 00 Go wrong.
6:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:41 Speaker 00 Very quickly. In 2016, Jessica and Jordan threw a surprise 25th anniversary party for their parents. About a month later, on September 16th, 2016, the family was preparing to go on their annual camping trip. They planned to leave later that day after Barbara finished work. Jordan, who was home from college, recalled waking up that morning and hearing Barbara in the kitchen. He heard the garage door open and his parents' car leave. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary. Todd was just driving Barbara to work. Jordan said this was normal for Todd to do. If he had the day off work, he would likely run errands and then pick Barbara up
7:22 Speaker 00 later in the afternoon. Shortly after 7:45 a.m., Todd and Barbara stopped at a neighbor's house because they were house-sitting. They stayed for just a few minutes. After that, Todd headed north away from the middle school. Todd and Barbara were driving down County Road End in the town of Hamilton, Wisconsin. He called 911 at 8:05 a.m. Todd reported an accident and said his wife was badly injured. He was in distress and he told the operator, she's hit in the head and in the throat. I think in the throat or something. He said a pipe or something came through the windshield. When police arrived, Todd claimed a pipe
8:07 Speaker 00 flew off a truck driving in the opposite direction. The pipe crashed through the windshield and hit Barbara. The pipe was found at the scene. It was 53 inches long and weighed around 10 pounds.
8:20 Speaker 01 It's really not that heavy of a pipe for the span that it was.
8:24 Speaker 00 Yeah, maybe. I don't know. Maybe it wasn't, you know, that thick or that big in diameter. But 10 pounds traveling a certain speed, coming through the windshield.
8:39 Speaker 01 Going to do some damage.
8:40 Speaker 00 Could do some, some serious damage. Now, there's a couple of things that jump out at me right off the bat.
8:47 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:48 Speaker 00 The first is Todd heading north away from the middle school.
8:53 Speaker 01 Right.
8:53 Speaker 00 Seems very strange if that's his destination. Why is he going away from it?
8:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:00 Speaker 00 And then the truck is heading in the opposite direction than they are. I don't know how that affects the speed, the impact. Would it actually be more? Because it's heading towards them as it flies off the truck?
9:18 Speaker 01 I see what you're thinking. You're wondering about the velocity by the centrifugal force.
9:23 Speaker 00 Oh, that's exactly what I was thinking about.
9:25 Speaker 01 You know, and then the.
9:27 Speaker 00 Inertia.
9:28 Speaker 01 Inertia.
9:28 Speaker 00 Mass, speed.
9:29 Speaker 01 Gravity.
9:30 Speaker 00 All that.
9:31 Speaker 01 Yep.
9:31 Speaker 00 Break it down for me.
9:32 Speaker 01 But I was thinking the same thing. If it's going the opposite direction and it comes off the truck.
9:37 Speaker 00 I think it could actually gain more speed than if they were heading in the same direction.
9:43 Speaker 01 Potentially.
9:45 Speaker 00 I know physics is kind of your area of expertise. That's why I'm, you know, kind of leaving that up to you.
9:51 Speaker 01 Quantum, but yeah.
9:52 Speaker 00 Quantum physics, quantum leap, more like it. Todd was put into a police car and continued giving his statement. He said, per 48 hours, I thought it was a bird at first, and then at the last minute, I seen it was a pipe. Todd said that after the pipe came through the windshield, he drove about 100 feet before he pulled over and the car rolled off the road. If you view photos of the vehicle, you can see the back half of the vehicle in the grass on the side of the road. After pulling over, Todd claimed he removed the pipe to get Barbara out of the car and administer CPR. He then called 911.
10:36 Speaker 00 On the way to the hospital, Todd described the truck as an older, like a bigger flatbed looking truck, like a pickup truck with a flatbed on it.
10:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, I can visualize that.
10:48 Speaker 00 You can visualize an older truck?
10:51 Speaker 01 Yeah, that has a flatbed on it.
10:52 Speaker 00 Okay, good for you. He said he couldn't remember the cab color, but thought it was like dark green or dark blue. At the hospital, Todd was panicked. He kept asking frequently for updates on Barbara. The neurosurgeon said her prognosis was poor. And in the early morning hours, she was pronounced brain dead. Barbara died just a few hours later. And I mean, I think everyone listening, you know, put yourself in that position. If something like that really happened to your spouse and you knew it was that serious.
11:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
11:30 Speaker 00 Who wouldn't be panicked?
11:31 Speaker 01 Of course.
11:32 Speaker 00 Who wouldn't be pestering to, you know, find out, is this person okay? Are they going to make it? Be beside yourself.
11:41 Speaker 01 And if you did do something wrong, you could be still panicky because you're concerned she might make it and talk.
11:50 Speaker 00 Well, that's a great point, or you know, you have to put on a show.
11:54 Speaker 01 Well, that's true, too.
11:55 Speaker 00 So there's a number of different situations, but they all kind of culminate in a person acting the same way, whether genuine or for a different reason. Officers were already suspicious of Todd. They noticed blood on his knuckles and what appeared to be scratch marks on his neck. Todd said, the injuries to his hands came from striking the windshield as a knee jerk reaction when he saw something flying at him. He said the scratches on his neck and chest came from working with glass.
12:31 Speaker 01 Okay, I mean, I can see hitting the glass with my hands too, as it's coming towards me, just like, you know. Get it away from hitting my face.
12:40 Speaker 00 Huh. See, I didn't see that.
12:42 Speaker 01 No.
12:43 Speaker 00 As a, my knee jerk reaction, I don't think would be to punch the glass. But I, I kind of get what you're saying. You're, you're putting your hands out in front of you.
12:53 Speaker 01 Yeah.
12:53 Speaker 00 To maybe deflect, but you do it so hard that you break the glass? Or you just have your hands up when whatever comes breaks the glass? It gets a little confusing there.
13:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:07 Speaker 00 But he actually says, striking the windshield. But maybe you're right. Could happen. I guess. Now, authorities believe the scratches were more consistent with a struggle. Police spent time looking for the truck and put out work to find out if anyone in the community saw it that morning. Surveillance video from a horse ranch down the road showed what appeared to be the Kent Hammer's vehicle. Passing by at 7:57 a.m. Around this time, no truck matching Todd's description was seen heading in the opposite direction. The police also interviewed a construction worker. Who said he drove by the Kent Hammer's car around 8 a.m.
13:50 Speaker 00 He didn't see any damage to the windshield or any people around. He saw the car in the ditch and thought somebody had driven off the road. Or tried to make a turn and got stuck. He didn't see Todd or Barbara.
14:04 Speaker 01 That seems strange.
14:06 Speaker 00 Well, I think we're getting into the area of here of why, you know, authorities were suspicious of Todd. Right? You have the surveillance camera that shows his car, but no truck. I mean, you have the surveillance video that shows their car, but not this truck. That he describes the pipe falling off of. And then you have this construction worker who says at eight o'clock. He sees the car not damaged at all. And remember, Todd calls 911 at 8:05.
14:43 Speaker 01 Yeah.
14:44 Speaker 00 So, you know, I think you can understand. The suspicion on the part of police.
14:49 Speaker 01 Things are not lining up.
14:52 Speaker 00 Investigators learned that Barbara was supposed to be at work at 8:00 AM, but she never called to say she'd be late. Barbara also called her mom every day, but she didn't on September 16th.
15:05 Speaker 01 It's a red flag.
15:06 Speaker 00 Well, you know, when we talk about cases, a lot of times we're talking about patterns. Now, many times it's unsolved, right? What do people do day in, day out? And, and why do they deviate on this day from a certain pattern when they go missing or something like that? But I think it applies maybe here as well. It kind of also goes hand in hand with, why was Todd driving north away from the school if he was supposed to be taking his wife to work? During the drive to the hospital, Todd explained that he was driving in the opposite direction from Barbara's work because he was going to pick up a truck so he could
15:50 Speaker 00 drive it home and replace the windshield. The truck was owned by Justin Hahn, who he knew from work. Todd said the truck was supposed to be in the driveway with the keys inside. He didn't call Heim that morning because he was just going to swing over. And if the truck was there, he would take it. The police spoke to Justin Hahn, who said he never ordered a windshield from Todd. He didn't need a windshield replacement at that time. And he said Todd didn't even know where he lived.
16:22 Speaker 01 Okay.
16:23 Speaker 00 So here's, here's my thing, Gibbs. If you're Todd Kendhammer and you're trying to throw police off the track, why would you come up with a story that can so easily be disputed?
16:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, did you not think they would verify everything you just said?
16:43 Speaker 00 That they're going to go immediately talk to this guy?
16:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
16:45 Speaker 00 And he's going to say, uh, I don't know what you're talking about. I didn't need a windshield. I didn't order a windshield. But maybe, you know, that goes to the fact that this wasn't planned out.
17:00 Speaker 00 You know, he didn't have time to think about everything because maybe what happened happened in the heat of the moment.
17:08 Speaker 01 Moment, yeah. No, he's just reacting.
17:10 Speaker 00 He's scrambling.
17:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
17:11 Speaker 00 Right after the fact. Four days after Barbara's death, medical examiner Dr. Kathleen McCubbin conducted her autopsy prosecutor, Tim Grunkie told 48 hours, she didn't understand when she first heard a pipe had done it. She called law enforcement to look at the pipe because she didn't understand how that could be. Barbara had three lacerations on the back of her head. The medical examiner did not believe these injuries were consistent with the accident as described by Todd. And I think right away, if you're picturing this accident with the pipe flying through the window, I don't think you're expecting to
17:56 Speaker 00 have lacerations on the back of the person's head.
18:00 Speaker 01 She was turned facing the opposite direction. Well, how could that happen?
18:03 Speaker 00 Unless she turned her head seeing the pipe or, you know, something like that coming. Barbara died of blunt trauma injuries of the head and neck with skull fractures, cricoid cartilage fractures and ultimate brain death. The cricoid is the ring shaped bony cartilage structure in the lower neck. According to the prosecutor, the broken cricoid cartilage was consistent with strangulation. I gotta be honest with you. First of all, I don't know if I'm saying that correctly. And that's not something that I've heard of.
18:37 Speaker 01 Yeah, I always call it the cricoid.
18:39 Speaker 00 Okay. And maybe that is how you say it. We talk a lot about the hyoid.
18:44 Speaker 01 We do.
18:45 Speaker 00 Boom. When it comes to strangulation, but this is something different. This cartilage is not something I don't think I've ever heard of.
18:53 Speaker 01 And the hyoid is connected to the.
18:56 Speaker 00 Cricoid.
18:59 Speaker 00 Sorry, I know it's not a laughing matter, but it's the way that you started that out. Obviously, got to me. The medical examiner noted other injuries such as scratches on Barbara's neck, torn fingernails, a broken nose, bruises all over her body, and a laceration on her forehead that could have occurred in a struggle. So, I don't know, Gibbs, you know, you kind of run down all of these injuries, right? It doesn't sound, all of them, like this was a pipe that flew through the windshield.
19:37 Speaker 01 No, I mean, red flags everywhere. Again, I mean, you're thinking, if it was the pipe and it had an impact with her head, how did all this other stuff happen? It just doesn't line up.
19:50 Speaker 00 Yeah, why the torn fingernails? Why all of these bruises, you know, all over her body?
19:57 Speaker 01 I mean, it sounds like she was in a big struggle at one point, and things went bad. And maybe this is his attempt as a cover up.
20:06 Speaker 00 Well, and I'm sure police are thinking, this struggle would also explain some of the injuries that he had.
20:14 Speaker 01 That's true.
20:15 Speaker 00 That he said came from working with glass. A week after Barbara died, investigators asked Todd to come to the station under the ruse that they had leads on the truck. Todd told investigators, he had not taken his anti-anxiety medication. He appeared confused and forgetful during his interview.
20:37 Speaker 01 Well, you know why he was probably confused and forgetful? If you aren't telling the truth from the beginning, and you've said it many times, it's hard to remember what to say when you're being interviewed.
20:50 Speaker 00 Well, it's pretty easy to get confused, right? Now, I understand anti-anxiety medication, but wouldn't that make him maybe more nervous in the interview?
21:03 Speaker 00 But I don't know about confusion and for forgiveness from not taking that. Investigators told Todd that Barbara's injuries didn't occur from the pipe going through the windshield. Todd was also informed that police had spoken to his acquaintance, Justin Hunt, who said he wasn't expecting to see Todd and hadn't spoken to him for weeks.
21:26 Speaker 01 That had to be one of those gulp moments, you know, when you hear that.
21:29 Speaker 00 Yeah, sometimes we call that no shit moment.
21:32 Speaker 01 Yes.
21:33 Speaker 00 But what happened was Todd changed his story and said he was actually going to see a friend of Justin's about a windshield replacement. But the police later found this friend who also said he didn't need a windshield and was not expecting to see Todd on September 16th.
21:53 Speaker 01 So just another lie.
21:55 Speaker 00 Well, like we always talk about, right? You're confronted by police with something that doesn't match what you've told them so far. So what did some of these people do? They tried to pivot.
22:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:10 Speaker 00 Like Ross carrying a couch up the stairs, you gotta pivot.
22:15 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:16 Speaker 00 But they're grasping at straws most of the time because they don't have anything real, right? You just have to make something else up and hope that, what? Police buy that or they're not able to refute it?
22:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:33 Speaker 00 But again, what he makes up is something so easily verifiable.
22:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, like why not come up with something different that they can't go ask somebody about?
22:44 Speaker 00 Yeah, maybe go away from the windshield replacement thing.
22:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
22:48 Speaker 00 But not everybody belongs to Mensa, not, not everyone can think on their feet. You know, let's say like a, like a Mike Gibson.
22:57 Speaker 01 Yeah, like that.
22:59 Speaker 00 That's all you have to say is yeah.
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25:39 Speaker 00 Todd was released after three and a half hours of questioning, but investigators continued building their case against him. And I get that, right? They're gonna release him. Let's say they, they feel like they don't have quite enough to charge him, but there's no way they're, they're letting this thing go.
25:58 Speaker 01 No.
25:59 Speaker 00 There's, there's too much smoke here.
26:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'm sure they have eyes on him while they build this case.
26:04 Speaker 00 Yeah. Todd was arrested on December 6th, 2016 and charged with first degree intentional homicide. His trial started a year later on December 4th, 2017. The prosecution argued that Todd killed his wife. While the defense maintained Barbara's death was a tragic accident. Shocking that the prosecution and defense have completely, you know, differing opposite theories.
26:34 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's pretty typical.
26:36 Speaker 00 It is. Obviously I was being facetious.
26:39 Speaker 01 You always are facetious.
26:41 Speaker 00 And that sometimes leads to people doubting my veracity.
26:45 Speaker 01 There you go with your verass again.
26:47 Speaker 00 But it's every trial, right? Here's the prosecution's theory. The defense's arguments are going to be, you know, pretty much in the opposite direction, completely different. The prosecution did acknowledge they didn't have a motive. There was no evidence Todd or Barbara were having an affair. They had no history of domestic violence or financial troubles.
27:12 Speaker 01 That makes it a little tougher.
27:14 Speaker 00 It does. Now we've heard plenty of prosecutors say, you know, I don't have to have the motive. I don't have to prove why they did it, but it is strange. Right? And in a lot of cases, we're not where you're talking serial killers, but where a husband kills a wife or the other way around, there's usually something to point to. Somebody's having a secret affair.
27:39 Speaker 01 I mean, it definitely helps the case if you can point to something.
27:44 Speaker 00 There's huge life insurance.
27:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
27:47 Speaker 00 And that could be the case here as well, but with no financial trouble, it doesn't really scream out, well, I have to kill this person. I need the life insurance.
27:57 Speaker 01 Sometimes people just get tired of people.
28:00 Speaker 00 That is true.
28:01 Speaker 01 You know, seeing their same face, weekend.
28:05 Speaker 00 Week after week.
28:08 Speaker 00 Sitting across from them for hours at a time.
28:11 Speaker 01 Constantly feeding. Oh, wait.
28:14 Speaker 00 At the trial, investigators testified that they searched for, but never found the truck or any surveillance videos showing a truck that matched Todd's description.
28:26 Speaker 01 Well, that would have been so helpful to him if they could, right? Because then they can say, oh, well, there was a flatbed truck that went by and, you know.
28:34 Speaker 00 Now, the absence of surveillance video doesn't mean the same thing as seeing it on video.
28:42 Speaker 01 That's true.
28:43 Speaker 00 But you can make an argument that if it's catching his car, how is it possible that it doesn't catch the truck at some point in time? If it's heading in the opposite direction?
28:55 Speaker 01 Yeah.
28:56 Speaker 00 Dr. Kathleen McCubbin was the state's star witness. She testified that Barbara's injuries were inconsistent with Todd's story. And the additional injuries to her body could suggest a physical altercation before her death. The defense didn't call their own forensic pathologist. But Todd's attorney, Stephen Hurley, tried to create reasonable doubt during cross-examination. The defense asked Dr. McCubbin if Barbara's travel mug, which was found on the passenger seat floor, could have slammed into her face. If she ducked to avoid the pipe, Dr. McCubbin responded, it could be. It's a possibility.
29:38 Speaker 00 And I think you see, you know, smart defense attorneys ask questions like this of experts. Is it possible that this happened? And a lot of times, you know, people have to tell the truth.
29:51 Speaker 01 Sure they do.
29:52 Speaker 00 Well, sure, it's possible.
29:54 Speaker 01 Is it likely? No. But is it possible?
29:58 Speaker 00 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there are a lot of things that are possible, but a lot fewer things that are probable or likely to have happened. Hurley didn't focus on the cartilage fracture, which the prosecution said could have only been caused by Todd. The windshield was one of the main pieces of evidence at trial. Different experts had different theories about what caused the glass fracture patterns. The defense's first witness was biomechanics expert Dr. Barry Bates, who testified per EAU, my opinion, to a reasonable scientifically and technical
30:39 Speaker 00 certainty was that the injuries and resulting death were caused by the penetration of the passenger windshield by a pipe, which struck the passenger in the vehicle.
30:51 Speaker 01 Well, that's his opinion, you know, reasonable, scientific.
30:55 Speaker 00 And technical certainty?
30:56 Speaker 01 Yeah.
30:57 Speaker 00 Reminds me of the, the automotive expert from My Cousin Vinny.
31:01 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
31:01 Speaker 00 He said something very similar. Glass expert Mark Mashul testified that there were three impact points on the windshield. The first impact point confirmed Todd's account of punching the windshield from the inside after seeing the pipe coming towards them. The second impact point was the pipe going through the windshield. The third impact point was caused while Todd was pulling the pipe out while attempting to help Barbara.
31:32 Speaker 01 So he's basically saying, it appears like Todd probably did hit the windshield with his fist. Looks like a pipe struck the window and it looks like Todd broke the windshield when he was trying to remove the pipe.
31:47 Speaker 00 Oh, you'd have to say these experts, by and large, are kind of backing up his claim or his version of events. Mashulum explained how a crack could run through the hole where the pipe went through the windshield, saying, if you have a crack that crosses another crack, it's not out of the question that the first crack can actually cross across the second crack. That could happen. Okay, first of all, it's a lot of crack.
32:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
32:18 Speaker 00 Or cracks, plural.
32:20 Speaker 01 So if we crack down on this.
32:23 Speaker 00 It's, uh, it's gonna get cracking.
32:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
32:26 Speaker 00 No, but I don't know. I don't really understand what to make of that, though. You've got cracks that radiate.
32:33 Speaker 01 Right.
32:33 Speaker 00 I understand that.
32:34 Speaker 01 Sure.
32:34 Speaker 00 From impacts of glass. Now windshield glass is always different, right? Because of the way it's made. It's, it's not like a, a glass pane in your house has layers.
32:48 Speaker 01 But during this conversation that they're having testimony, I don't really hear them saying that this had anything to do with Barbara at this point. I think they're just saying this is what happened to the glass.
33:01 Speaker 00 Well, I think these experts are only talking about the glass because the prosecution was, you know, making so much out of the windshield.
33:12 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:12 Speaker 00 So I think the defense was having experts specifically trying to combat the prosecution's theory regarding it. Todd testified in his own defense. He explained that he was distraught during his interview with the police, which is why he gave differing statements about where they were going that morning. Todd explained, as quoted by 48 Hours, "When I watched that video, it's me in the picture, but it's not me talking. I'm not in the right state of mind talking in that. I wasn't thinking of where I was going or what I was doing. I was thinking of Barbara."
33:51 Speaker 00 And I, and I get that. I, I think in a real tragic accident situation like that, anybody would be, you know, almost out of their mind.
34:04 Speaker 01 I mean, be traumatized.
34:05 Speaker 00 Be traumatized. Now. It still doesn't explain why Todd was heading away from the school. And that is basically what he was trying to do in the interview.
34:18 Speaker 01 Right.
34:19 Speaker 00 And then he later changed his story to something different, but it was all around, why were you headed away from the school?
34:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:28 Speaker 00 Todd told the jury that he was actually going to see a man named Gerald Logan on the morning of the incident. However, Logan said he never arranged for Todd to replace his windshield. The prosecutor asked Todd, did you change your story for trial? Because you knew police had figured out your lies. Todd replied, no. But they did figure out the first two.
34:52 Speaker 01 They did.
34:53 Speaker 00 And what's he come up with at trial? Something, again, a real person. They can go talk to that person and what's that guy say?
35:02 Speaker 01 Nope.
35:02 Speaker 00 No. That I had no appointment. I did not arrange to have a windshield replaced.
35:11 Speaker 01 And he, and he had a year to think about this.
35:13 Speaker 00 Yeah, that's kind of the sad part about it, right? This isn't right after the incident.
35:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:19 Speaker 00 He could have really taken his time to come up with something.
35:22 Speaker 01 He could have.
35:23 Speaker 00 Prosecutors called on two Wisconsin crime lab experts to dispute the defense's experts. DNA analyst Kevin Scott testified that Todd's DNA was found in his wife's fingernails, but he couldn't determine how it got there.
35:39 Speaker 01 But is that really that uncommon? Couldn't your DNA be underneath your wife's fingernails?
35:44 Speaker 00 I, I imagine it probably would be right now.
35:49 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:49 Speaker 00 You know, they, they give you a quick scratch on the back or, you know, if you live with someone, chances are they, they're going to have your DNA on them somewhere, somehow.
35:59 Speaker 01 Sure.
36:00 Speaker 00 But you know what the prosecution is trying to make out of it? She's got broken fingernails.
36:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
36:06 Speaker 00 And his DNA is underneath her fingernails. And that came from the struggle, her trying to fight him off. Now, the state's expert disagreed on the order of the impacts to the windshield. Crime scene response coordinator Nick Stalky testified that it took at least two blows to the windshield to cause the center fracture. The center damage occurred before the fracture with the hole over the passenger seat. In the site, over the passenger seat was hit at least once before the hole was produced.
36:41 Speaker 01 Well, that's not good for the defense because that sounds like somebody hit the windshield ahead of time before the pipe.
36:48 Speaker 00 But it's also not, not out of the ordinary, right? You have prosecution experts and defense experts saying completely contradicting things. We see it in almost every trial. Stalky also investigated the glass and dirt found on the passenger seat and in the door sill and said, per News 8, just the fact that the dirt and glass were there would indicate that no one was seated in the seat. I believe because of the lack of glass in the map pocket and dirt in interior side of front door, I believe the door was open during deposition of the glass in the dirt. So what is he saying?
37:31 Speaker 01 I feel like he's saying it was all a setup.
37:35 Speaker 00 Like she was already out of the car.
37:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:38 Speaker 00 And maybe already dead.
37:40 Speaker 01 Maybe.
37:41 Speaker 00 When the damage to the windshield occurred. The defense questioned Stalky's knowledge of glass and how it breaks and asked how evidence like glass shards might have moved while the car was towed in the rain to the sheriff's department. Stalky said, anytime there's weather and you have an item exposed to that weather, there can be loss of evidence due to that. And I feel like, you know, Gibbs, this was probably a very technical case. I mean, obviously, we're not going to go into every detail of the trial, but the trial sounds to me like it was highly technical, focused on, you know, the windshield and the impacts and, you know, the experts were really focused on that.
38:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'm thinking if I was on the jury, I'm thinking, it just doesn't sound like it happened the way that Todd said it did. I would have a hard time believing what the defense is trying to put out there.
38:39 Speaker 00 Well, it comes down to which experts do you believe most? Now, do you factor in what Todd has said where he, you know, about why he was going away from the school? And to me, that probably helps people lean towards one side or the other more than probably anything else.
39:02 Speaker 01 I think so.
39:03 Speaker 00 Because if he's lying about that, which apparently he's been proven to have lied three times about, then is it likely that he's lying about what happened, you know, with this pipe?
39:17 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think it sets you up to start believing that he's lying to us. He's going to lie to us about everything.
39:28 Speaker 00 On December 15th, 2017, Todd Kendhammer was found guilty of murder. Three months later, Todd was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole after 30 years. His kids, Jessica and Jordan, were surprised when Barbara's cousin, Jerianne Buckner Wetstone, spoke out against him and read a letter signed by other cousins. Jerianne said, Barbara found the courage that day to fight back. Therefore, we stand here today, united with that same courage, asking you to sentence her killer to the maximum penalty possible. Jessica later told 48 Hours that Jerianne was estranged from Barbara, adding,
40:11 Speaker 00 she basically painted this scene, that she just feels so bad about my mom and her big blue eyes. Even though her eyes are green, my mom hates her. Jerianne denied the claim that she was estranged from Barbara. But it does seem to me, Gibbs, that
40:30 Speaker 00 You know, the, the kids were kind of siding with their dad.
40:33 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
40:34 Speaker 00 And not believing that he killed their mom, but that other members of the family did think he did it.
40:42 Speaker 01 But how could you, I don't think you would want to think your dad was lying to you.
40:48 Speaker 00 And even more so, you don't want to think that your dad is a killer.
40:52 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:53 Speaker 00 Let alone liar. But why? Does it all go back to, you know, what Jessica and Jordan said? They were happy. They didn't seem to fight more than, you know, any other couple. Every couple fights now and then. They were doing pretty well financially. What's the motive? And that's probably one thing they were struggling with, for sure.
41:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:15 Speaker 00 Prosecutor Tim Grunkie also expressed harsh words for the family who sold Todd and Barbara's house and Jessica's house to pay Todd's legal bills. Grunkie said at sentencing, pardon my language, but to be perfectly frank, they need to get their head out of their ass. They need to start looking at this in reality. You don't hear a lot of people in court say, get your head out of your ass. But, I mean, obviously, he believes they're being snowed, right? By Todd.
41:47 Speaker 01 Sure.
41:47 Speaker 00 And they're selling their, their houses. Todd's house, I understand, but his daughter's house to pay his legal fees? I mean, that's how strongly they must have believed in him.
41:58 Speaker 01 Right.
41:59 Speaker 00 Grunkie later told 48 Hours, I think I have to open their eyes in some way. I think they're giving him false hope, and I think he's dragging them down with him by using all their money to continue in his lies. Todd and his children refused to accept the verdict and sought a retrial. They hired attorney Jerry Butting to handle the appeal. Jerry Butting is well known for defending Steven Avery, the subject of the Netflix show Making a Murderer. He is working alongside his wife, attorney Kathleen Still. Butting told 48 Hours, this was an accident. The idea that out of the blue, he would snap and kill his wife and then stage the accident,
42:42 Speaker 00 it just seems so implausible. All right, Jerry, now you're using my word. Plausible, implausible.
42:49 Speaker 01 Yeah.
42:50 Speaker 00 And, you know, it kind of does, to be honest with you, because we haven't come up with any motive.
42:56 Speaker 01 Well, that's true.
42:57 Speaker 00 Or any reason why it's thought that Todd would want to kill Barbara.
43:02 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, what, what could have happened that morning that went so bad?
43:08 Speaker 00 That they got into it in the car and he snapped and killed her.
43:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:12 Speaker 00 Jordan added, if he wanted to kill Ma, why the hell would he go through all the work and trouble to find a pipe, drive all the way out to the middle of a busy road? Forty-eight hours also asked the prosecutor if Todd could have killed his wife and staged the crime scene in a short amount of time. Remember, we talked about it, right? A construction worker passed by the couple's car at 8:00 a.m. Todd called 911 at 8:05. Prosecutor Grunkie said, yes, he can do a lot of damage in two or three minutes. So it's more time than people think.
43:48 Speaker 01 Well, and that is true, right? I mean, if you hit that little start button on your stopwatch.
43:55 Speaker 00 Because a lot of people carry around stopwatches.
43:58 Speaker 01 Yeah, well, or use your magical iPhone or, yeah, it has stop, but if you hit that button. Yeah, not too many people carry that stopwatch around like you do around your neck.
44:08 Speaker 00 Right.
44:09 Speaker 01 You know, with, with your track, track outfit on, but um, if you hit that button and you watch it, a minute is a long time. It really is.
44:19 Speaker 00 Well, if you're sitting there watching it, yeah.
44:21 Speaker 01 Well.
44:22 Speaker 00 It's longer than, seems longer.
44:24 Speaker 01 I would say it's not, it's not longer than it would be if you didn't watch it, but yeah, it probably seems longer.
44:28 Speaker 00 But we, but we don't know, right? She could have been dead before eight o'clock.
44:34 Speaker 01 Oh, absolutely.
44:35 Speaker 00 Because the construction worker doesn't see either one of them.
44:38 Speaker 01 No, so he doesn't know what happened prior to passing the car.
44:42 Speaker 00 Right.
44:42 Speaker 01 He just knows the car is there and nobody's in it.
44:45 Speaker 00 But he also says there's no damage.
44:47 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:47 Speaker 00 So between eight and eight oh five, it's thought that, okay, what? He took this pipe and,
44:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:54 Speaker 00 you know, made the holes in the, in the windshield. She wasn't in the car. And then he later brings her, puts her back in the passenger seat.
45:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
45:06 Speaker 00 To kind of fit his nerd. In 2021, Todd was granted an evidentiary hearing before his trial judge. He argued ineffective assistance of counsel and claimed there was new evidence in his case. The first day of the hearing was spent questioning Todd's trial attorneys and the decisions made surrounding the trial. The defense called on forensic pathologist, Dr. Shakoo Tees, who viewed Barbara's medical records and autopsy photos. Dr. Tees believes Barbara died due to cranial cerebral injuries due to a vehicular accident. Dr. Tees didn't observe anything on Barbara's body that was consistent with her having been beaten with
45:50 Speaker 00 fists or evidence that she had been in a fight. She also saw no injuries suggestive of strangulation. And the injury to Barbara's cricoid cartilage could be due to her hitting the large travel mug in the car. The defense theorized that the injuries to the back of Barbara's head occurred because she ducked as the pipe came through the windshield and it grazed the back of her head, which to me is a strange theory because you would think she's killed by the pipe hitting her directly, not grazing the top back of her head.
46:29 Speaker 01 Yeah, but I think they're saying because of the force of her bending over to duck down.
46:37 Speaker 00 She hits her head on the travel mug?
46:38 Speaker 01 It's her, hits her throat.
46:40 Speaker 00 Throat on the.
46:40 Speaker 01 Yeah, the travel mug. That's what kills her. And then the pipe grazes her on the back.
46:46 Speaker 00 Yeah. Okay. I get you. I get you. I understand what you're saying. Dr. Tees also expressed the belief that some of Barbara's injuries came from the harvesting of her organs after she died. So she must have been an organ donor. The defense also presented reenactment videos.
47:05 Speaker 00 Produced by investigators during the initial investigation, police attempted to reconstruct Todd's story by dropping a similar pipe off the back of a truck. The videos show the pipe bouncing off the ground. Once out of the four times it was dropped, these videos were not presented in court until the 2021 evidentiary hearing. Todd's original defense didn't share the test videos because they thought it was inconclusive and the prosecution didn't think they needed to show it. Prosecutors said at trial that several videos were made of a pipe falling off a truck, which showed the unlikelihood of Todd's story. Todd's new defense believes the video should have been played at trial because it would
47:49 Speaker 00 have supported his statement.
47:51 Speaker 01 Well, maybe it would have been beneficial.
47:53 Speaker 00 But you know, the ineffective assistance of counsel argument, it's always an interesting one because you know, you can second guess a lot of decisions.
48:03 Speaker 01 You can.
48:03 Speaker 00 That are made. You know, the defense attorney has a reason why they did or didn't do something. They thought it was inconclusive. Forensic crime scene analyst Alexander Jason, not to be confused with Jason Alexander.
48:19 Speaker 01 Which some people might do.
48:21 Speaker 00 Testified that the videos actually show it was possible that a pipe could have fallen off a truck and gone through the windshield the way Todd described. If the investigators performed the test enough times, it would show what happened as Todd described it. Jason showed frames of the test video that showed the pipe at an angle that could have impaled the vehicle. Jason also spoke about other instances around the U.S. where pipes have impaled the windshields of vehicles traveling down the highway.
48:53 Speaker 01 Well, it sounds like. They're really standing behind that the video should have been shown because it would have been helpful to the jury.
49:01 Speaker 00 Yeah, because it's all it's all part of their, you know, original defense trial was ineffective. The court heard from Andrew Stur, an employee of Madera Drilling, a well drilling company that had a crew working in the West Salem area on the day of the accident. Stur wasn't able to say that the crew was on the same stretch of road where the accident happened at the time it occurred. Local resident Steve Petranik testified that he'd seen scrap metal trucks traveling down County Road M in the past, usually overloaded with objects that weren't always securely tied down. However, he wasn't home on the morning of the accident.
49:42 Speaker 01 All right.
49:43 Speaker 00 You're grasping.
49:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
49:45 Speaker 00 Yeah. I see some trucks sometimes with stuff in them and they're not always secured, but I have no knowledge about this case because I wasn't even home that day.
49:53 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's pretty, pretty vague.
49:55 Speaker 00 Dr. Jeffrey Loftus, a professor of psychology, testified that Todd's memories of the incident were influenced by others, including authorities. Additionally, his struggle to remember details can be explained by the trauma from the accident. And I get that, you know, we kind of touched on it a little bit. Struggling to remember details, I understand. Completely making up false stories seems a little bit of a bridge too far to blame on trauma.
50:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
50:27 Speaker 00 This very specific story that turns out not to be true in any way.
50:32 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, he, he did tell multiple lies.
50:37 Speaker 00 Well, and then that's just the first one where you would say, okay, he's just experienced this traumatic event. What about the later one? And then what about the one at trial?
50:47 Speaker 01 After he had a year to think about it.
50:49 Speaker 00 Yes.
50:49 Speaker 01 Still.
50:50 Speaker 00 He's still coming up with windshield repair stories that are proven to be false. In May 2022, a judge denied Todd's motion for a retrial. In June 2024, the Court of Appeals of Wisconsin also rejected Todd's motion for a retrial.
51:08 Speaker 01 And they're pretty hard. They're sticking to. They're not gonna allow it.
51:13 Speaker 00 Well, which, you know, I think most of the time it's a high hurdle, right? To get a retrial. A lot of people argue ineffective assistance of counsel. But I think the percentage of the time that someone is actually granted a retrial due to that argument is pretty low. Most recently, in October 2024, the Wisconsin Supreme Court denied a review of Todd's conviction. So, you know, as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, you know, for me, it's a, it's a very strange case. On the one hand, you have Todd's children and some other family members who believe in his innocence.
51:56 Speaker 01 Right.
51:57 Speaker 00 I mean, heck, they were selling houses.
51:58 Speaker 01 Sure.
51:59 Speaker 00 To pay for his legal defense. They argue that he was wrongfully convicted, that he was a loving husband who would never harm his wife, and that Barbara's death was a tragic accident. While prosecutors couldn't produce a clear motive, they believe Todd's story didn't add up. And the evidence from the windshield and Barbara's autopsy supports Todd's conviction.
52:22 Speaker 01 You know, I think it's tough. I can see the family's point of view.
52:26 Speaker 00 I don't think what Todd is convicted of doing is the guy they knew or the guy they know. And I think that's probably, and this happens quite a bit, it's why they're so firmly in his camp. Hey, known this guy our whole lives.
52:40 Speaker 01 Right.
52:41 Speaker 00 He wouldn't do this.
52:43 Speaker 01 You know, then you have the videos that kind of show that it could have happened that way. I think, but you have the missing pieces, right? Where's the truck that went down the road?
52:53 Speaker 00 Why was his car caught? The other truck was never caught on the video.
52:57 Speaker 01 Exactly. Why was the car at eight o'clock not damaged when it was seen by the passerby? And then the stories of why he was going away from the school. That's a, it's a problem.
53:11 Speaker 00 Yeah, I think it's a big problem for a jury. Cause things don't seem to add up. But on the other hand, why would he do this? That, I mean, I think that's the, the struggle.
53:22 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, like you said, there is no motive. I mean,
53:26 Speaker 00 That we know of.
53:27 Speaker 01 That we know of. The only thing I can think of is that something happened during that morning.
53:34 Speaker 00 Maybe it was when they went to that, the play, the other house where they were house sitting.
53:39 Speaker 01 Yeah. Maybe an argument started and like sometimes arguments can, can cause is that you go too far.
53:47 Speaker 00 And someone snaps.
53:49 Speaker 01 And someone snaps.
53:49 Speaker 00 It could, but we, there's no way to know what the argument would have been about. Or, you know, is there something deeper that we don't know about? Did Barbara find something out about Todd? It just hasn't been revealed.
54:05 Speaker 01 Yeah, that you're never gonna find out.
54:07 Speaker 00 Cause he doesn't want to know.
54:08 Speaker 01 And she's not here to tell you.
54:10 Speaker 00 Or did he not do this at all?
54:12 Speaker 01 Or that's another possibility, right? The family's staying pretty hard by that, right? He didn't do it and we're standing by him and.
54:20 Speaker 00 Now with, with everything that we've talked about, if I had to lean one way or the other, I'm leaning towards the fact that he did it. Just based on the, the limited evidence that we have.
54:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
54:33 Speaker 00 Things we know about.
54:34 Speaker 01 And that's why the jury did the same thing.
54:36 Speaker 00 Yeah, but again, in the back of your mind, it is tough because you want to know why in the world he would do this? And you just, you just don't have anything.
54:48 Speaker 01 Yeah.
54:48 Speaker 00 So I think it's always tough in a case. But you know, this is a case that we will probably see in the news. As time moves on, you know, if Todd continues to appeal, maybe at some point, there is something that comes out where he does get a retrial or, or something like that. I don't know. It's a definitely a different type of case.
55:13 Speaker 01 It is.
55:14 Speaker 00 Because it's not as slam dunkish as many are. There are quite a few unanswered questions. But that's it for our episode on Todd Kendhammer. We got a voicemail, Gibby, you want to check that out?
55:28 Speaker 01 Let's hear it.
55:29 Speaker 02 Hi, it's Annie from Pittsburgh. I have been listening for like two years on and off and I'm just, I'm not caught up at all, but I just got to the episode about Harry Saw and my grandpa is actually related to him and we live in Pittsburgh. So I just thought I'd share that. I love the show so much. I'm Team Mike and yeah, thanks so much for what you guys do. Keep your own time ticking. Bye.
56:00 Speaker 00 All right. Awesome. From Pittsburgh, a place that Gibby and I have been many, many times.
56:05 Speaker 01 Absolutely. It had a few Pittsburgh salads, which come with fries on top of it, which I didn't know when I ordered it the first time.
56:13 Speaker 00 I spent a week there one night.
56:15 Speaker 01 Yeah.
56:18 Speaker 00 No, you know, when we get these types of voicemails or I get a bunch of emails, it's surprising how many people have a connection with somebody who, you know, we talk about on the podcast.
56:32 Speaker 01 Right.
56:33 Speaker 00 It could be that they're related. Sometimes people write in about a very scary experience they had with a serial killer.
56:40 Speaker 01 They sure do.
56:41 Speaker 00 Before they knew that, you know, this person was a killer.
56:44 Speaker 01 And we've got people related to the killer, to the victims.
56:49 Speaker 00 Yeah. Or they're just from that small town where something happened.
56:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
56:55 Speaker 00 And they remember it or they know of the aftermath of it. So.
57:00 Speaker 01 All very freaky.
57:04 Speaker 00 Yeah, no doubt. We had no mailbag this week, so that's it for another episode of True Crime All the Time. So for Mike.
57:12 Speaker 01 And Gibby.
57:13 Speaker 00 Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.
57:51 Speaker 03 Whoop. Sleep better, train smarter, recover faster, and feel healthier. Understand and optimize your sleep. Get coaching and insights for every age, stage, and cycle. Track over 140 habits. Get a 360 view of your training and workouts. Never miss a second of that with a wireless and waterproof charger. Expect all new features, all the time.
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