Pod Insights True Crime All The Time The Swanson Motel Murders About this episode On November 16th, 1981, 53-year-old Priscilla Dinkel and her 7-year-old granddaughter Danelle Lietz were murdered at The Swanson Motel in Dickinson, North Dakota. The case went cold until 1991, when local law enforcement utilized an FBI profile to identify the killer.
Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the Swanson motel murders. The police followed leads down into Texas and even looked at Henry Lee Lucas as a possible suspect. Then, in 1991, authorities began looking at a 48-year-old named William Reager who fit the FBI profile. Reager was a drifter who worked as a truck driver and a carnival employee.
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1:48 Speaker 00 Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 430 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson, and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?
1:58 Speaker 01 Hey, I'm doing good. How about you?
1:59 Speaker 00 Doing great.
2:00 Speaker 01 Good.
2:01 Speaker 00 We just had a pretty chaotic Patreon minisode.
2:06 Speaker 01 We did?
2:06 Speaker 00 We were all over the map.
2:08 Speaker 01 Because of you.
2:10 Speaker 00 No, sure. It's always because of me, but you know.
2:15 Speaker 01 I pulled you back in.
2:16 Speaker 00 Some of it was funny. Some of it was perplexing, bewildering.
2:23 Speaker 01 Did you scratch your head a little bit?
2:24 Speaker 00 Not me, but I'm sure people listening and watching. Yeah. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Carly Simon.
2:32 Speaker 01 The Carmys?
2:34 Speaker 00 Carmy.
2:35 Speaker 01 Carmy? Hey Carmy.
2:38 Speaker 01 Carly.
2:38 Speaker 00 Yeah, spelled differently, but what a great singer. Mo.
2:43 Speaker 01 What's up, Mo?
2:44 Speaker 00 BJ Sir Earl.
2:46 Speaker 01 Sir Earl. So from one knight, remember I was knighted from that small little country over in Western Europe.
2:54 Speaker 01 So I know how it feels to be a knight.
2:55 Speaker 00 Was she like an MBE or I don't know if I'm saying that right. There's a bunch of letters that come after.
3:01 Speaker 01 Yes. Yeah.
3:03 Speaker 00 Martin.
3:03 Speaker 01 Hey, Martin.
3:04 Speaker 00 Veronica Lopez.
3:06 Speaker 01 What's going on Veronica?
3:07 Speaker 00 Marcela Kinsella.
3:09 Speaker 01 That's kind of like got a little rhyme to it.
3:11 Speaker 00 It does.
3:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:11 Speaker 00 Steven Hall.
3:13 Speaker 01 Hey, Steven.
3:14 Speaker 00 Amanda Foley.
3:14 Speaker 01 Well, Amanda.
3:15 Speaker 00 Melanie.
3:16 Speaker 01 What's up Melanie?
3:17 Speaker 00 Gins.
3:18 Speaker 01 Gins.
3:19 Speaker 00 Yeah.
3:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:20 Speaker 00 Michelle.
3:20 Speaker 01 Hey, Michelle.
3:21 Speaker 00 Brandy Lewis.
3:22 Speaker 01 Thanks, Brandy.
3:23 Speaker 00 Lauren Johnson.
3:24 Speaker 01 There's Lauren.
3:24 Speaker 00 And last but not least, Natalie Walker.
3:27 Speaker 01 Good old Natalie.
3:28 Speaker 00 Yeah. And then we go back into the vault. This week, we selected Emma Harrington.
3:33 Speaker 01 From the Harringtons.
3:35 Speaker 00 From the Harringtons.
3:36 Speaker 01 Yeah, sure.
3:37 Speaker 00 Appreciate the new support, the continued support. We also had a PayPal donation from Danny Watt, who's getting married this weekend. Will probably be married by the time the episode comes out. So he wanted to give a shout out to his beautiful wife. They listened together.
3:53 Speaker 01 Oh, that's awesome.
3:54 Speaker 00 Yeah, it's very cool.
3:55 Speaker 01 Congratulations, guys.
3:57 Speaker 00 So we have an episode out right now on True Crime All the Time Unsolved, where we're talking about the German family murders. And this goes all the way back to Thanksgiving Eve of 1930. The entire German family was murdered on their farm in Stanfordville, New York. And nearly a century later, the murders remained unsolved.
4:20 Speaker 01 Which is amazing that it's still unsolved.
4:22 Speaker 00 Yeah, but there's a lot of different things to discuss with the case and, you know, is it gonna be easier to solve it 100 years later? No, probably not.
4:34 Speaker 01 We'll talk about it and go from there.
4:36 Speaker 00 All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time?
4:41 Speaker 01 I actually am. I really want to talk about this case.
4:44 Speaker 00 Yeah, we're talking about the Swanson Motel murders. On November 16th, 1981, 50-year-old Priscilla Dinkel and her seven-year-old granddaughter, Danelle Lietz, were murdered at the Swanson Motel in Dickinson, North Dakota. The case went cold until 1991, when local law enforcement utilized an FBI profile to identify the killer. So there's a couple of things here that fascinated me about this case. First of all, you have a cold case, right? 10-year-old cold case that gets solved. And that, to me, is amazing.
5:23 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
5:24 Speaker 00 And then on top of that, you know, it's solved with the help of an FBI profile, which is also another one of my fascinations.
5:36 Speaker 01 It is.
5:36 Speaker 00 Now, I sometimes, I don't want to say talk down about FBI profiles, because they're great tools. A lot of times, they are very generic. So we'll have to kind of see what we think about this one, but obviously it worked because they used it. Priscilla Dinkel was born on January 5th, 1928, in Green Bush, Minnesota, according to an obituary published by the Bismarck Tribune. So there are a couple of states that, you know, I've spent very little time in. Minnesota is one. North Dakota is another.
6:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:15 Speaker 00 Those are just not states that, that I've really spent much time at all. I've been to Minnesota, but, you know, maybe it was for a conference or it was for something, and I was kind of in and out.
6:27 Speaker 01 I've been to Minnesota once as well. Like you said, I was, I think I was there for a conference or something for a weekend, and that was, that was about it. I don't believe I've ever been to North Dakota.
6:38 Speaker 00 No, I know I haven't.
6:40 Speaker 01 Been to South, but not North.
6:42 Speaker 00 In October 1949, Priscilla married Frank Dinkel in Crystal, North Dakota, where they lived for many years. Priscilla had nine children, two sons and seven daughters.
6:55 Speaker 01 Oh, my. That's a lot.
6:57 Speaker 00 It is. And we talk about it quite a bit, right? Big families.
7:02 Speaker 00 Not to say that people nowadays don't have big families. It seems like it was more common, right in the past. And, and I think there were reasons for that. In some areas, you know, you, families needed help.
7:17 Speaker 01 Surely.
7:17 Speaker 00 Like actual labor help.
7:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:20 Speaker 00 Whether they were running their own farm or doing whatever. So kids helped provide that, some of them.
7:28 Speaker 01 And some of the different churches promoted.
7:30 Speaker 00 Bigger families.
7:31 Speaker 01 Bigger families. So I just don't know how you remember all your kids' names that, with nine of them.
7:38 Speaker 00 Well, you and I talk about our kids a lot. I have two girls. They are absolutely wonderful, but also unbelievably expensive.
7:49 Speaker 01 Yes.
7:50 Speaker 00 Um, so seven girls, I, I don't know. I, I'm not sure what I would do if I had seven girls. I mean, it would be a blessing, don't get me wrong. But, uh, I'd probably have even less hair than I have now, which is almost not possible.
8:10 Speaker 01 It'd be gone. What you have left would not be there.
8:12 Speaker 00 No, it, it would completely be gone.
8:15 Speaker 01 And then I'm thinking, boy, if you're like the two boys, if you came towards the end, you know, that's, uh, potentially a lot of, uh, sisters that want to kind of be like your mom as well.
8:28 Speaker 00 Yeah, maybe you're going to get a lot of help, but maybe you're also going to get told what to do a lot.
8:33 Speaker 01 A lot, yeah.
8:35 Speaker 00 In August, 1981, Priscilla moved from Crystal to Dickinson, North Dakota, to take on a job managing the Swanson Motel. The sources that, you know, we found and used for this episode didn't provide a lot of information on why she moved. Her husband Frank was still alive at the time, but sources didn't say why he didn't go with her. So I, you know, maybe he didn't want to go, maybe they were having problems in their marriage, you know? These older cases and you know, I'll classify a 1980s case as an older case.
9:14 Speaker 00 But also when you're talking about kind of the less well-known cases, maybe in a smaller town. Well, just by that very nature, you are going to have less reporting.
9:27 Speaker 01 Sure you are.
9:28 Speaker 00 On it. The Swanson Motel was a small, older motel on the main thoroughfare through downtown Dickinson. It was torn down in the late eighties. So, you know, I'm getting a real Schitt's Creek vibe here.
9:41 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:42 Speaker 00 Maybe, you know, like the Schitt's Creek Motel.
9:46 Speaker 01 That or like a Bates Motel.
9:49 Speaker 00 Okay, we could go with that too.
9:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:51 Speaker 00 Have you ever stayed at a motel like that?
9:56 Speaker 01 I've stayed at one more like the Schitt's Creek than the Bates.
10:01 Speaker 00 That was, that was maybe, you know, very small, eight or 10 rooms, like right off the road. I think I stayed in one, one time down in Kentucky where my family was from, because that was literally the only place you could rent a room.
10:19 Speaker 01 That was it, what?
10:20 Speaker 00 That was it. You either stayed there or you stayed at a family's house.
10:24 Speaker 01 And it was probably better to stay at the motel.
10:27 Speaker 00 Well, I, I think whatever reason we were there, there just wasn't room.
10:31 Speaker 01 Yeah.
10:31 Speaker 00 Probably. Most of the guests at the motel were oil field and energy workers who were part of the 1980 oil boom in North Dakota. Rooms were normally rented on a weekly basis rather than nightly. The police were only called to the motel a few times while Priscilla was the manager.
10:51 Speaker 01 The old oil boom there. I remember that.
10:53 Speaker 00 Yeah. I mean, big deal, but you know, you think about all the different things that go on in the motel. My assumption is the police are there at most motels semi-regularly.
11:05 Speaker 01 Well, maybe because they're there for the whole week and maybe even longer. They're just not the type of people that will get into trouble.
11:12 Speaker 00 Yeah, they're, they're obviously not renting the room for a night to party or, or something like that. But I still thought that was a pretty interesting statement. In November 1981, Priscilla's daughter, Melody Mattson, came to Dickinson for a visit, bringing her own daughter, Danelle. Priscilla was babysitting Danelle overnight on November 15th. They stayed in Priscilla's living quarters in the office building. So, you know, she was the manager, but also lived there.
11:44 Speaker 01 Perks of the business.
11:47 Speaker 00 Well, you have your salary, which is one thing, but if on top of that, you know, you're, you're getting free lodging. Okay. That's a big deal. Sure. Housing is expensive or lodging is expensive. On the morning of November 16th, 1981, a man called the police just before 8:00 AM to report finding Priscilla and Danelle's body in the office. This man normally stopped at the motel to get coffee every morning. And I don't know if that was all that unusual. You actually see that in a lot of different movies and
12:27 Speaker 00 shows from back during that time period. Police officers, and this wasn't a police officer, but a lot of police officers, you know, if they were out on patrol would stop into a motel, just say hi to the owner. They knew there was free coffee.
12:44 Speaker 01 Sure. Why they're in there? Why not get some free coffee?
12:46 Speaker 00 Yeah.
12:47 Speaker 01 Maybe a cookie or a donut.
12:49 Speaker 00 Well, you didn't have a Starbucks on every corner, a Dunkin' Donuts on every corner.
12:54 Speaker 01 No, you did not.
12:55 Speaker 00 And I know near and dear to your heart, free coffee is better than coffee paid for.
13:03 Speaker 01 Well, that's a given.
13:04 Speaker 00 Free anything.
13:05 Speaker 01 Free anything. Yeah.
13:07 Speaker 00 No matter if it's good, bad, if it's free, it's for me. I've heard you say that many times.
13:14 Speaker 01 That's why on Sunday, Saturdays and Sundays, I sneak into Costco's and Sam's Club for my free dinners.
13:20 Speaker 00 Why do you have to sneak in?
13:21 Speaker 01 Cause I don't want to pay the membership fee.
13:23 Speaker 00 Oh, I got you. According to Police Chief Chuck Rumel, who was a patrolman in 1981, Priscilla was found face down in the lobby of the motel. Her hands were bound with an electrical cord and she suffered a blow to the head with a blunt object. Danell was found in the office sleeping quarters. She was laying on the bed and was not bound, but there was evidence showing she was tied up at one point. Danell suffered a skull fracture. Both Priscilla and Danell were strangled to death with electrical cords, taken from appliances inside the office.
14:04 Speaker 01 That's brutal.
14:05 Speaker 00 It's brutal, but what do you make of that? To me, it's that this person maybe didn't come with a murder kit. They found and used something that was laying around.
14:24 Speaker 01 It makes me wonder, did they come there even thinking that they were going to murder? Or did they get angry and frustrated and it elevated to that point?
14:34 Speaker 00 Right. And I think that's something to, to keep in mind. Both victims were found in their pajamas, suggesting they were attacked sometime overnight. The office was not ransacked, but a hundred dollars was missing from the cash box. Okay. Do you make anything from that?
14:54 Speaker 01 Yeah, it doesn't sound like the intention was robbery, but maybe.
14:58 Speaker 00 Well, I, I kinda had a thought that if the office isn't ransacked, but there's money missing, does that mean that the perpetrator already knew exactly where the cash box was? And therefore, you know, didn't need to ransack the office because they went straight to it.
15:20 Speaker 01 Yeah, either they knew where it was or it was already out in sight.
15:23 Speaker 00 Yeah, or they, or they just happened to find it very quickly. Stark County Coroner Dennis Wolfe determined the victims might've been dead for more than eight hours, estimating that they were killed between 11:00 PM on November 15th and 3:00 AM on November 16th. A couple of days after the bodies were found, the coroner Dennis Wolfe revealed that Danell was sexually assaulted and similar tests were being conducted on Priscilla's body.
15:54 Speaker 00 And all of this is hard, right? Nasty stuff, but the sexual assault of a seven year old girl, Gibbs.
16:06 Speaker 01 This is sick.
16:07 Speaker 00 Yeah, it's, it has to get to, to everyone listening. Now she's also going to be killed and that's brutal. Investigators had no immediate suspects. Chief Gerald Barnhart said, as quoted by the forum, a paper based in Fargo, I don't think we've ever had a dual murder situation like this here in Dickinson. This was just something you read about in the papers. And we've heard similar statements to that in many of the cases that we've done that have occurred in smaller towns. And there's always somebody saying, well, we never thought that that would happen here.
16:49 Speaker 01 Yeah.
16:50 Speaker 00 You know, that, that's a, a murder or a crime that happens in other places, but not here, but not here. And that's why, you know, we don't lock our doors. That's why we don't take the precautions that you would if you lived in a bigger city because we don't live in the big city. But as we've often said, you know, once you have something like this happen in your small town, it's like the town loses its innocence.
17:22 Speaker 01 It sure does.
17:23 Speaker 00 Everybody starts locking their door. Maybe people are a little more wary. They're a little less trusting.
17:32 Speaker 01 A lot more standoffish.
17:33 Speaker 00 On November 19th, the coroner announced Priscilla was not sexually assaulted.
17:39 Speaker 01 Which is really disturbing. I'm glad she was not, but the fact that the individual concentrated on a seven year old, it's really disturbing.
17:50 Speaker 00 Well, I, I think when you're analyzing a case like this, you have to take all of these details into account. What does that mean? Does it mean that the perpetrator was attracted to very young girls, which would say a lot about that person.
18:15 Speaker 00 Or does it mean that Danelle and not Priscilla was the target? So to say, I hate to use that word, but I don't know what other word to use. Authorities sent fingerprints and other physical evidence to the state crime laboratory in hopes of getting additional leads. In January, 1982, the Dickinson police revealed they had some suspects in the case, but the state crime lab was still not done analyzing evidence. Police Chief Gerald Barnhart noted that most of the fingerprints found at the crime scene belonged to people who had valid reasons to be in the motel office.
18:58 Speaker 01 So people who either worked there or maybe guests coming and going.
19:03 Speaker 00 And does it make it tougher when, you know, a crime occurs in a setting like this versus, let's say somebody's home where you wouldn't expect to find as many fingerprints. There's not going to be as much traffic as there would be in a motel office for sure.
19:24 Speaker 01 And if that was the case, then you, you would be able to start zoning in on somebody.
19:30 Speaker 00 A little easier, I would think. In March, 1982, it was reported that a half dozen police departments around the country were questioning potential suspects. Other departments reported to Dickinson authorities that they had suspects already in custody or suspects being investigated who admitted to act similar to the Dickinson murders. Some of those suspects also passed through the Dickinson area.
19:58 Speaker 01 So it sounds like they have some potential leads.
20:00 Speaker 00 Well, I mean, I think if you've got somebody who committed a similar act, are you going to look at them? Yes. But if they were also known to have passed through the Dickinson area, then I think you gotta bump them up on the list a little bit.
20:17 Speaker 01 Yeah. But it also has me concerned that if it wasn't them, what in the heck is going on with these individuals out there? That they're doing things similar in other areas.
20:30 Speaker 00 Well, let's face it. I just think, and I always think that there are people looking to do these types of things all over the place at any one time. It's a scary thought, but I think it's true. Chief Barnhart also revealed that so far fingerprints had not been helpful in identifying suspects. And we have to think about the timeframe, right? 1981, 1982. You're not messing around with any DNA at that point in time. So fingerprints were a big deal.
21:06 Speaker 01 Sure.
21:06 Speaker 00 In May 1982, a new detective was signed to the case. Former detective in charge Jim Wrights told the Bismarck Tribune, "After six months, you should probably have somebody new come in and take a look and dig into it because you become so much a part of the thing that it's easy to overlook something that somebody new might see." And I completely understand that way of thinking. I think we've touched on it before, but no matter what you're doing, whether it's looking into a heinous crime or overseeing a project at work, is there a chance that you could get too close to it? That you're unable to kind
21:50 Speaker 00 of step back and see what's really going on?
21:54 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think sometimes you've got to have that fresh set of eyes on something.
21:58 Speaker 00 Can be very helpful.
21:59 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
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24:12 Speaker 00 Valid for select games only and expire each day after 24 hours. Spins values vary. See terms at casino.draftkings.com/promos. Ends November 22, 2026 at 11:59 PM Eastern Time. In February 1983, news outlets reported that the police were looking at a psychological portrait of the killer in hopes of identifying a suspect.
24:39 Speaker 01 Well, that would be an interesting portrait to put together.
24:42 Speaker 00 It would be, but my thought is 83 FBI profiles couldn't have been around all that long. It had to still have been, you know, relatively new. Chief Gerald Barnhart told the forum, we've checked out hundreds of people. The possibility of relatives and shirttail relatives, everybody within two to three blocks of the place, including hitchhikers known to be out on the road. We had a list, a page long at one time of suspects. So, you know, they're looking at a lot of different people. I don't know what a shirttail relative is. I imagine you have some of those.
25:23 Speaker 01 Some shirttail relatives?
25:24 Speaker 00 Yeah, I don't know exactly what those are. I just imagine you have some.
25:29 Speaker 01 We all have some.
25:31 Speaker 00 But it does sound like they're looking at a lot of different people. What I take away from it is him saying, we had a list, a page long at one time of suspects.
25:42 Speaker 01 Yeah.
25:43 Speaker 00 Meaning at a certain point, that list had been, you know, narrowed down. It dwindled down as people got excluded. Barnhart explained that they sent details about the crime to a psychological expert with the FBI. And like I said earlier, FBI profiles were still fairly new concepts at this time. Chief Barnhart added, what we have found in the past with this type of crime is that there is a certain amount of passion involved. If someone commits more than one crime, we think he will do it in the same manner. And I think, you know, more often than not, that is true.
26:25 Speaker 00 People who commit multiple crimes or serial killers, they often, you know, commit those with a similar MO. It doesn't mean they don't change it up, but.
26:36 Speaker 01 No, but I think they go with what they know.
26:38 Speaker 00 Or with what they know works.
26:40 Speaker 01 Exactly.
26:41 Speaker 00 And that they've gotten away with. Authorities hoped the profile would tell them something about the killer or their family, which they could then match with potential suspects in their family. Barnhart said that Priscilla and Danell's families had been eliminated as suspects, adding, "From there, where it goes is whoever was in the city of Dickinson. It was at our energy boom period. There were numbers and numbers of people in town that nobody knew. It's still pretty much wide open. We aren't looking for any one individual right at the moment. The case has gotten pretty cold on us." And I, I think this energy boom fact is, is pretty important.
27:25 Speaker 00 You think about some of the small towns around here, Gibbs. Growing up, yeah, people left, people moved in, but it wasn't like huge influxes.
27:36 Speaker 01 No.
27:37 Speaker 00 But in a boom area, you can see major influxes of people, meaning at one point, you might've known everyone in town and now you know a fraction because there's so many new faces.
27:51 Speaker 01 We haven't been part of that, but we hear about it now and then.
27:54 Speaker 00 Yeah, I don't know that the place that we live has ever been booming in our lifetime.
27:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
27:59 Speaker 00 It may have boomed at one time, but that boom has been over for many, many years.
28:05 Speaker 01 I want it to boom when I'm ready to sell my house.
28:07 Speaker 00 That would be great.
28:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's when it needs to boom.
28:10 Speaker 00 To drive the, uh, the sale prices up.
28:12 Speaker 01 Yes.
28:14 Speaker 00 In November, 1983, the police provided an update on the investigation. The Dickinson police were looking at a man in Texas who confessed to committing over a hundred murders across the country, but he had no connection to the Dickinson murders. In 1987, the Bismarck Tribune reported that the police had followed leads all the way to Texas and New Mexico, mostly comparing similar cases. The police said they had a definite suspect, but there was not enough evidence to press charges.
28:49 Speaker 01 Well, they're definitely active in the investigation and they feel like they're getting close, but can't lock anything down.
28:57 Speaker 00 And it didn't come out and say it, but it's hard not to think that in November of 1983, if you're looking at somebody in Texas who has admitted to committing over 100 murders, that most likely was Henry Lee Lucas.
29:12 Speaker 01 Yeah, he liked to boast about what he did.
29:16 Speaker 00 But it sounds like, you know, they looked at him, as did a lot of different agencies who had unsolved murder cases, but they found that he had no connection, right, to the Dickinson murders. It's also interesting that in 1987, they come out and say they have a definite suspect, they just don't have enough evidence to press charges. Around 1990, Dickinson Police Commissioner Walter Reling revived interest in the case and asked Police Chief Paul Bazano to take another look at it. Bazano assigned Chuck Romell, who was a detective at this time, to review the cold case and develop new leads.
29:58 Speaker 00 It was designated a priority investigation with the department.
30:03 Speaker 01 So for whatever reason, it sounds like this police commissioner really wanted to get this case solved.
30:08 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, let's face it, the authorities want to solve every case, but a lot of cases go cold, but it did seem like this one in particular, the police commissioner was really adamant about, you know, reopening or getting other people to take a look at it, you know, even this designation of a priority investigation, that's a big deal.
30:33 Speaker 01 I think so.
30:34 Speaker 00 After reviewing the FBI profile, Detective Romell identified 48-year-old taxi driver William Reager as the prime suspect. Within days, Detective Romell and a representative from the State Bureau of Criminal Investigations traveled to Batesville, Arkansas to speak to Reager. According to the forum, Reager was described as a drifter who worked as a truck driver and Carnival employee. Reager lived in other states and there were times authorities lost track of him.
31:10 Speaker 01 Here comes our carnies.
31:11 Speaker 00 Yeah, well, I know you at one point drove a truck. At one point, you were also a carnival worker. And much like this guy, you lived in a lot of different states and it's well known that the authorities lost track of you at at certain points in time.
31:30 Speaker 01 You move around a lot.
31:32 Speaker 00 During the interview, Detective Romell noticed Reager fit many traits of the FBI profile. And after hours of questioning, Reager confessed to the Swanson Motel murders and gave details only law enforcement or the killer would know. He also confessed to a 1988 murder in Batesville, Arkansas.
31:53 Speaker 01 He followed it pretty quick.
31:55 Speaker 00 It it sounds like, right? A few hours, he starts confessing. But here again, something that you and I talk about in a lot of unsolved cases. Why do authorities not release every detail they have? And here's the reason why. You have somebody who confesses. You need to make sure that that confession is truthful. And a great way to do that is when this person is telling you something only the authorities or the killer could know.
32:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
32:31 Speaker 00 You know, they couldn't have seen it on the news. They couldn't have read it in the paper because it wasn't out there. Reager claimed that he wanted to date Priscilla Dinkel's daughter, Melody. But Priscilla didn't approve of the relationship.
32:47 Speaker 01 So he's so upset that he decides to kill Priscilla and kill and sexually assault Melody's daughter?
32:56 Speaker 00 Well, you you're saying that as if it doesn't make sense.
33:01 Speaker 00 And you know why? Because it doesn't make sense.
33:04 Speaker 01 Absolutely, it doesn't.
33:05 Speaker 00 But isn't that what we see time after time? What is going through these people's minds? How can they make the decision? That, okay, I'm upset with the fact that this woman won't let me see her daughter. I'm gonna start killing.
33:23 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'll show them.
33:24 Speaker 00 On March 1st, 1991, Reager was charged with two counts of murder. For the North Dakota cases, Priscilla's husband Frank Dinko said he was relieved by the arrest and told the Bismarck Tribune that he and Bill Reager worked on oil rigs together. So Reager was acquainted with the family. Dinko added, I wish I could be put in the same prison.
33:50 Speaker 01 I bet he does.
33:51 Speaker 00 And I think about that often. You know, the surviving family members. You know, here you have a man whose wife was murdered. His granddaughter was both murdered and sexually assaulted. How could you not want vengeance? How could you not be thinking in all of your waking hours? What you would do to this person? If you could just get them alone in a room?
34:23 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's kind of like that. I know I've mentioned it before, that movie with Sean Penn? Where he makes sure that he goes to the same prison that is, I think it was his girlfriend's killer rapist? And he made sure he got to the same prison? And that's where he fills up his pillowcase with Coke cans? And then finds the guy like in a corner of the prison and just.
34:48 Speaker 00 Whales on him?
34:49 Speaker 01 Yep.
34:49 Speaker 00 Yeah, I know you've mentioned that before. What's it called?
34:52 Speaker 01 I'm not gonna remember.
34:54 Speaker 00 That's why I asked.
34:57 Speaker 00 But you did have quite a few details.
34:59 Speaker 01 We did. I mean, I did.
35:03 Speaker 00 Coroner Dennis Wolf also said he had known Reager for 25 years. At one point, Reager was employed by the city of Dickinson, and it was said that he left town shortly after the homicide. Okay, well, that makes me want to ask the question, why did it take so long for him to be on the radar?
35:24 Speaker 01 Yeah, you think there should have been some flags that popped up.
35:28 Speaker 00 Yeah, he wasn't a stranger to the family. He was well known to them. And then this idea of somebody just leaving town just after the murders occurred, maybe a little red flag.
35:43 Speaker 01 I think so.
35:44 Speaker 00 Arkansas authorities soon charged Reager with capital murder for the 1988 death of 77 year old Della Harding. Della was a retired seamstress and widow who lived in Batesville. Her husband died over a decade before her. Della had a chronic heart condition and was hospitalized in early 1988. On June 18th of that year, Della's body was found under a bridge on Highway 122 near Newark. A driver thought he saw something and stopped to check it out. Investigators determined Della's body was thrown off the bridge and fell 35 feet.
36:23 Speaker 01 Wow.
36:24 Speaker 00 Della was reported missing around 8:30 a.m. On June 18th, one of the last people to see Della was Dorothy Chumley, a friend and nurse who took her blood pressure almost every day. She saw Della on the morning of June 17th while she was out walking. She didn't take Della's blood pressure that day because she had a doctor's appointment. However, a nurse at the office said Della didn't come in. Sergeant John Baum of the Independence County Sheriff's Department said there were signs of forced entry and an abduction in Della's home. Her missing car was found on June 19th parked beside a nightclub in Newport.
37:08 Speaker 00 The nightclub owner said he first saw it there around noon the day before. So investigators believe Della's killer left her residence and drove her car through Batesville to Newark. At Newark, the killer turned onto Highway 122 and threw her body over the bridge. The assailant then drove the car to the nightclub and abandoned it. And this one is tough as well. I mean, you know, we're talking about a 77-year-old widow who, let's face it, Gibbs, is no threat to anyone, I'm sure.
37:44 Speaker 01 No.
37:45 Speaker 00 How many enemies could this woman possibly have outside of maybe a bingo or, you know, something like that?
37:55 Speaker 01 Bingo can get kind of vicious.
37:57 Speaker 00 It can, but you know, the thought that's running through my head is, okay, not only did he kill this woman, but then you put her in her own car, drive her car, at some point, stop at a bridge, remove the body from the car, and throw it over the side of the bridge where she lands 35 feet below.
38:24 Speaker 01 You're treating her body like a piece of trash.
38:26 Speaker 00 Yeah, and I can only imagine what injuries she sustained from that type of fall, even though maybe they were postmortem. It's, it's still hard to picture. There was no obvious motive. Authorities didn't release many additional details about the case or Della's autopsy to protect the investigation. However, the state medical examiner later said Della was strangled to death. Later that month, Detective Lieutenant Bill Hall issued a statement from the sheriff's department assuring the public they were utilizing- All resources to try to solve the crime because they were unsure how releasing additional
39:08 Speaker 00 information would affect the investigation, they chose not to make any details public. And again, it never surprises me when we hear that. In addition to these cases, Bill Reager was considered a suspect in murders in Texas, California, Ohio, and Missouri.
39:27 Speaker 01 I'm sure it opened the gate once he was arrested for these other murders.
39:31 Speaker 00 Well, and we said it, right? This is a guy who moved around a lot. And, you know, I, I think some of those people who kill, you know, they're scary in a number of ways. And anybody who kills is scary. But when you think about someone who travels around the country frequently, then you're getting into an area where, okay, they're killing people, let's say they don't know, they have no connection to, they're not in that area very long. Those are tough murders to solve and tough cases to lump together.
40:11 Speaker 01 Yeah, because they're so random.
40:12 Speaker 00 Yeah. And they're all over the, the place. After the arrest, 32-year-old Patricia Reager told the AP that she met Bill in Batesville, Arkansas in February 1989. They got married just a few months later and their divorce was finalized in April 1991. Authorities said Reager had another wife and four kids in North Dakota. Patricia said that at first, he was more of a gentleman than any man I ever knew. They're few and far between. He never acted like he wanted anything in return. Patricia traveled with Reager and eventually became suspicious about his past, saying,
40:55 Speaker 00 he kept lying to me about everything and he told me he could never go back to North Dakota.
41:01 Speaker 01 You know, that's what happens when you have to tell lies about your past. And then you gotta keep telling more lies to cover up those lies. It's not surprising that she became very suspicious.
41:14 Speaker 00 Well, and you know, let's break down what she said, right? At first, you know, he was a gentleman. And then there's, there's also this statement. He said he could never go back to North Dakota. Well, what would be the reason why you could never return somewhere? To me, it's either you've committed some crimes that, you know, you don't want to go back and face or put yourself back on the radar for. But also in his case, it might've been because he was still married with a family.
41:50 Speaker 01 So he needed to stay away.
41:52 Speaker 00 Yeah, I don't know. It almost made it sound, without coming out and saying it, that he was married to two different women at the same time. Patricia added, it was easier for him to lie than tell the truth. And Gibbs, I think there are some people out there like that.
42:09 Speaker 01 I think there's more people than we realize out there like that.
42:12 Speaker 00 That they, they lie so easily, right? It comes so naturally to them that it's easier for them to lie than to actually tell the truth, especially when some of their truths are things that they know people would be upset by.
42:31 Speaker 01 Because they want to avoid confrontation in one sense. The other thing is they also don't want to have to admit that they did something horrific.
42:39 Speaker 00 Or put themselves in jeopardy of going to jail for said horrific crimes.
42:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
42:45 Speaker 00 Reager refused to say why he wouldn't return to North Dakota, but Patricia said she put two and two together. She explained, the only reason you can't go back is if you're running from the law. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. I think I was the one who just said that, so obviously I'm no genius.
43:05 Speaker 01 Well, we know that.
43:06 Speaker 00 Well, yeah, we knew that.
43:08 Speaker 01 You didn't.
43:08 Speaker 00 Not compared to you.
43:10 Speaker 01 Well, there's a big difference in our IQ scores. Mensa, non-mensa.
43:16 Speaker 00 You're triple digits, I'm double digits, right? That's, that's what you're saying. I get it.
43:22 Speaker 01 I'm just saying, Mensa.
43:27 Speaker 00 In April 1991, Danell Lietz's mother, Melody Matson, told the Dickinson press that after the murder, she told the police she believed Bill Reager was responsible. She first met Reager in October 1981. Soon after she moved to Dickinson, she said, "I told them it was Bill Reager, but no one would listen. I'm still bitter about the whole thing."
43:52 Speaker 01 And why wouldn't she be? You know, when you tell the authorities, "Hey, I know who did this. It's this person, and here's why." And then they kind of push it off?
44:03 Speaker 00 Blow it off, don't seem to investigate it. But then it turns out later that you're 100% right, or you were right. Yeah, you're going to be bitter about that.
44:13 Speaker 01 Absolutely, you are.
44:15 Speaker 00 Melody claimed the police told her Reager failed a lie detector test.
44:20 Speaker 01 That's going to frustrate you even more.
44:22 Speaker 00 Yeah, so it's like, all right, obviously, they must have talked to him. They must have grilled him at least somewhat to the point where he took a lie detector test. If he really did fail it, how did he just kind of fall off the radar so easily? Melody added, "I want to see Bill Reager die for what he did to Danny and my mom. He took what was most precious to me, my baby and my mom. I want him to lose what is most precious to him, his life. But first, I want him to come back to Dickinson to be tried. After that, I hope he gets the death penalty in Arkansas."
45:03 Speaker 01 Well, she's not shy about how she feels, nor should she be.
45:06 Speaker 00 Yeah, you think about what she lost. You know, two of the absolutely most important people in her life. And to lose a seven-year-old, that, you know, that just cannot be overstated, the devastation that that must cause for a parent. Authorities determined Reager would be tried in North Dakota first. In April 1991, a judge denied a request by Reager's Defense attorneys for $1,400 to secure an alibi witness in the Arkansas murder case. They had reason to believe Reager was in Texas at the time of the murder.
45:48 Speaker 00 Prosecutors originally said Della was murdered on June 17th or 18th, 1988. The defense asked the prosecution to narrow their timeline and prosecutors provided two documents, fulfilling that request. They had a statement from a grocery store clerk who said he helped Della with her groceries around 6:30 PM on June 17th. The other statement came from a police dispatcher who indicated Della's body was found around 3:00 PM on June 18th. So, I mean, it does narrow it down somewhat. It's still a pretty good span of time, you know, 20, 21 hours.
46:32 Speaker 00 On September 3rd, 1991, Arkansas dropped the Capitol murder charge against Reager. Prosecutors had the option to file new charges, but that seemed unlikely. Batesville prosecutor Don McSpadden accused the sheriff's department of improperly investigating the case from the beginning. He said investigators did not give him all the information they had and questioned the validity of Reager's March confession. He said, as quoted by the Bismarck Tribune, "We were told that he confessed. There were a lot of errors with what investigator John Baum said could be corroborated." McSpadden then cited several weaknesses in the investigation.
47:17 Speaker 00 Few photographs were taken of the victim's house and investigators didn't dust for prints.
47:23 Speaker 01 Unfortunate.
47:24 Speaker 00 Well, you're starting to get a sense of why, you know, the prosecutor felt as though he couldn't move forward with this case. Yeah, you got a confession, but is it real? How good is it? Reager told the police he got into Della Harding's house through a bedroom window and used hedge clippers to cut the screen, but the screen wasn't cut.
47:49 Speaker 01 It's kind of falling apart now.
47:51 Speaker 00 Well, you can imagine a defense attorney having a field day, right? Poking holes, undermining this confession. How can you say this is a valid confession when what my client confessed to doesn't even line up with the known evidence?
48:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
48:10 Speaker 00 Sergeant Baum said Reager lived a mile from Dull's house and worked for Batesville Trucking Company at the time of the murder. However, Reager didn't start working for the trucking company until six weeks after the murder and didn't live near Dull's house until a year later.
48:27 Speaker 01 Well, that's a gap.
48:29 Speaker 00 It's, uh, it's, to me, more than a gap. These are incorrect statements by police officials, right? Things that they thought tied him to the murder turned out not to be true. Finally, witnesses were not made available to the prosecution and some interviews were not revealed until after the defense notified the state. Reager was transported to North Dakota later that month. And again, let's go back to this case in, in Arkansas. I know I've said it before, you, what is the job of a prosecutor? And to me, it's to get to the bottom or to seek the truth, right?
49:14 Speaker 00 If, if a person is guilty and you have the evidence to back that up, pour it on, right? Put it in front of a jury and see what happens. But I think there are a lot of times where, you know, prosecutors move forward with the case when they don't really have the case.
49:31 Speaker 01 Yeah, sometimes they just need to wait, make sure they get everything they need.
49:35 Speaker 00 Or they may never get everything they need. I, I guess what I'm saying is this guy took a look at everything and, and said, hey, I don't think we can move forward with this. First of all, some of the stuff that you've told me turns out not to be correct. You, the case weakened from what it started out as, I think the more he found that was incorrect.
50:00 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'm pretty sure he thought, if I can't win this case, there's no reason to take it forward. And I don't want to spend the people's money if we can't win the case either.
50:10 Speaker 00 And that's not justice, right? If you don't have the evidence, that's not fair to the person on trial. I'm all for putting bad people away, don't get me wrong. On January 17, 1992, after two delays, Bill Reager waived his right to a preliminary hearing and was bound over for trial. Despite his earlier confession, on February 4, Reager pleaded not guilty to two counts of murder. Reager's trial was set for June 16, 1992. His attorney requested that his trial be moved out of Dickinson due to local media coverage, but
50:50 Speaker 00 a judge denied their motion. Reager attended a hearing in late April where the prosecution and defense discussed what evidence would be presented at trial. By the spring of 1992, it seemed like the case was on track and there would be no delays with the trial. But then William Reager died in his jail cell on June 9, 1992, just one week before he was set for trial. He was 49 years old. The coroner determined he died of a massive heart attack in his sleep. Reager went to bed around midnight after finishing the jail's laundry. He had not complained of any health problems recently. He was found dead by a
51:35 Speaker 00 guard at 6:39 a.m. No one else was in his cell. Jail Administrator Norbert Sickler said he probably never knew what hit him.
51:45 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'm sure he probably didn't.
51:46 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, if you have a massive heart attack in your sleep, probably not. After Reager's death, State Attorney Owen Mayer announced, per the forum, "I and my staff and investigators had no doubt whatsoever that we had the right person here and we could prove it." He explained, essentially, the case was simple. There was a confession, and that confession was not suppressed. It was valid legally. The state's case was going to consist of the introduction of the confession and follow up with evidence that would firmly corroborate the confession as authentic. And that all sounds good to me, right? A confession is one thing, but a confession by itself...
52:30 Speaker 00 Without corroborating evidence can be problematic.
52:33 Speaker 01 Sure could.
52:34 Speaker 00 Mayor moved to dismiss the case on June 17th and made the transcript of Reager's confession public record. Reager gave his confession in March 1991 with Police Lieutenant Chuck Romell and Jerry Thiessen from the North Dakota Crime Bureau. According to the forum, he said he had dinner with Priscilla Dinkel, her daughter Melody Mattson and Danell Leetz on the night of November 15th, 1981. He returned later to talk to Priscilla about dating Melody, but she said no. Reager said, "I was hurt and angry. When asked what happened next, he said, "I exploded. I went completely berserk.
53:18 Speaker 00 I went out of my mind and did some nasty things that I swear to God, I wished I was dead on. I killed the woman and an innocent baby." And he confessed the details that were not public knowledge. For example, he said he unscrewed a light bulb so no light could be seen from the street. Investigators did find an unscrewed bulb at the crime scene. Investigators also found a stick from the table that Reager said he used to hit Priscilla. He also admitted to strangling Danell with a vacuum cleaner cord and sexually assaulting her.
53:56 Speaker 01 Sick guy.
53:57 Speaker 00 Yeah, he's a sick individual. But again, I think unlike the case that they were building against him in Arkansas, this case seemed much more solid. Right? You had the confession and within the confession, you had a bunch of details that not only lined up with the evidence found at the scene, but had never been made public, which I think, you know, would give the... Statements made by Reager, you know, much more validity, right? That he's telling the truth. He's the killer. Reager was asked whether he stole anything and he said he took a picture of Dino
54:41 Speaker 00 and her mother and a platter that was hanging on the wall. And both of these items were listed as missing.
54:48 Speaker 01 Got to make sure he gets that platter.
54:50 Speaker 00 It seems so strange.
54:51 Speaker 01 It does.
54:52 Speaker 00 You have killed two people and you've sexually assaulted a poor, young, seven year old and you're going to take as a souvenir? A picture of this little girl and her mother and then a platter off the wall?
55:10 Speaker 01 So random.
55:11 Speaker 00 Well, it makes me kind of wonder what his state of mind was after committing these murders. Although Reager was never convicted of the crimes, authorities consider the case closed based on his confession. Because he traveled around the country, it's possible he committed additional crimes that have not been officially linked in.
55:32 Speaker 01 Well, clearly he was a killer. So I'm sure he did have other crimes out there.
55:37 Speaker 00 Yeah, you know, as we wrap this one up, it's an interesting case for true crime all the time because technically there was no conviction, but it's hard not to think that he would have been convicted had he, you know, lived to, to go to trial. It's also so strange that he died just one week before the trial was set to begin.
56:00 Speaker 01 And maybe that's because he deserved it for what he did to Patricia and the little girl.
56:08 Speaker 00 Yeah, I'm not going to argue with you that maybe he deserved to die, but I do think it could be looked at in a couple of different ways from the standpoint of the family, right? You could look at it as, I'm glad he's gone. He deserved what he got.
56:24 Speaker 01 Yeah.
56:25 Speaker 00 You could also look at it as. We never actually got to see him face justice. We never got to hear a jury stand up and say, you're guilty of these murders and the sexual assault. So, I mean, depending on how the family looked at it, it could have been good or it could have been not good.
56:51 Speaker 01 Yeah, I get it. They might have wanted to have their time in court with him. I was just thinking about what we said earlier. Could he have done other murders? I'm thinking, if you can do what he did to a seven-year-old and also what he did to a 77-year-old woman?
57:07 Speaker 00 Well, and let's not forget the murder in Arkansas. I know he wasn't convicted of it, but...
57:13 Speaker 01 Yeah, but she was 77 years old.
57:15 Speaker 00 They thought that he did. It's hard for me, and it always is, to think that, especially when you have a person who is known to have traveled the country, lived in a bunch of different states, driven through a bunch of states, someone who's capable of doing that, did they only do it two or three times? And the rest of their life, they were walking the straight and narrow? No, that's just hard for me to believe.
57:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, same here.
57:47 Speaker 00 What's more likely is that you have other unsolved murders in jurisdictions and they've just never been able to put things together. You know, maybe they don't have DNA from those cases. Maybe they couldn't put him in the area.
58:05 Speaker 01 This guy was a piece of shit. He's done more than what he did here.
58:10 Speaker 00 I think you and I are both in agreement on that. But that's it for our episode on the Swanson Motel Murders. We've got some voicemails, Gibbs. You want to check those out?
58:19 Speaker 01 Let's hear them.
58:20 Speaker 02 Hey there. This is Sarah B. from Oregon. I'm trying to catch up on your True Crime All the Time stories. I have to start from day one. I've been listening on and off for a couple of years now. I'm on February 4th, 2024, so I'm starting to get there, listening to Rod Matthews. And I wonder if you did this on purpose, or if it was a slip up. But at about 23 minutes and 10 seconds, you're doing an advertisement for Chime, and you say, "Crime checking account required. Be sure to apply for Chime, blah, blah, blah." And I, and I just thought that was funny. Like, do we have to have a crime checking
59:01 Speaker 02 account? Because I, I've never had one of those, and I guess they'll have to commit a crime to, to be able to qualify. So anyway, I was just, I thought that was funny, and I was just wondering if you did that on purpose or not. All right. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.
59:16 Speaker 00 Well, I would say definitely not on purpose. And I'm sure it was Chime checking account, and I switched it to crime, because I'm so used to saying crime. But it's, what's funny is that that episode was a long time ago.
59:32 Speaker 01 It was.
59:33 Speaker 00 And I don't remember anyone ever reaching out about it, meaning people aren't listening to the ads, or they're not listening that closely. But that's, it's kind of funny. Maybe that was what you call like a little Freudian slip.
59:49 Speaker 01 I think it was.
59:50 Speaker 00 Because we're always thinking about crime. It's on your mind.
59:53 Speaker 03 Hi, my name is Bree. I'm from Detroit, Michigan. I'm not, would tell you about the crime fair, but you know, it's Detroit. But I like, been, I've been listening to the podcast for about a few months. During the day, I'm a postal worker, so I listen to it throughout my day at the postal work. And through the evening, I was at the front desk of the hotel, so to hear it and to get my stay through because I can work sixteen hours is good. Um, I am a, um, a special officer from the age of five to about twenty-four. Um, I'm thirty-one now. Uh, but I really like
1:00:37 Speaker 03 the way y'all answer. It makes the podcast funny and it makes the storytelling a lot less scary. Um, so I'm just happy I get to make this mail. It took me a long time to figure out how to do this. But, uh, stay safe, keep your own time ticking, keep your head on the foot. Bye.
1:00:59 Speaker 00 I very much appreciate the voicemail.
1:01:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:01:03 Speaker 00 Always love to hear from people in Detroit. I know I've said it before, but I used to live in Detroit for a number of years.
1:01:10 Speaker 01 And you used to be a postal worker.
1:01:12 Speaker 00 I was a postal worker, um, not a full-fledged one, but, uh, for a summer when I was home from college. And I'll say it again, best job I ever had.
1:01:23 Speaker 01 Hey, it plays. You did it.
1:01:25 Speaker 00 It plays.
1:01:26 Speaker 01 It plays. You're good. Postal worker Mike.
1:01:29 Speaker 00 Oh, I, I did it. I, I've had a lot of jobs, some of them not for all that long, but, uh, you know, to me, those were all experiences.
1:01:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:01:40 Speaker 00 You know, I, I had to go get my government driver's license. I'm driving on the left side of the vehicle, but on the right side of the road. And, uh, you know, I'm like nineteen years old.
1:01:52 Speaker 01 Aren't all driver's license government?
1:01:54 Speaker 00 But you know what I mean?
1:01:55 Speaker 01 No, I don't.
1:01:56 Speaker 00 It's like, uh, a special government driver's license to drive that.
1:02:00 Speaker 01 To drive the, yeah, backwards.
1:02:02 Speaker 00 Technically, you are correct. I think they're all good. All right, buddy. No mailbag. So that's it for another episode of True Crime All The Time. So for Mike.
1:02:11 Speaker 01 And Gabby.
1:02:12 Speaker 00 Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.
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