Pod Insights True Crime All The Time The Murder of Cari Farver About this episode Cari Farver went missing in November 2012 after spending the night at her new boyfriend’s house. Days after she disappeared, her boyfriend began receiving harassing and threatening text messages. Investigators believed Cari was not sending these messages and identified an unlikely suspect.
Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the murder of Cari Farver. Cari's family didn't believe she just disappeared. But her mother and son also received strange text messages, seemingly from Cari. Things continuously escalated until the police broke the case wide open. When they did, people were shocked at the person behind the mystery.
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1:50 Speaker 00 Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 416 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson, and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Give me, how are you?
2:00 Speaker 01 Hey, I'm doing good. How about you?
2:02 Speaker 00 I'm doing great. We just talked about it on Patreon. You know, we both had good holidays.
2:08 Speaker 01 We did.
2:09 Speaker 00 You know, Christmas. New Year's.
2:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:12 Speaker 00 And for me, you know, the new year is always strange. It used to be when I was in school or, you know, working, I would always have trouble with the writing the new year.
2:27 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:27 Speaker 00 You know, the date.
2:28 Speaker 01 Sure.
2:29 Speaker 00 I don't write dates that much anymore, you know, in my current line of work, but I don't know what it is. You think about 2025, when you and I were kids, that would have been something you would have seen in a, a science fiction movie.
2:46 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
2:47 Speaker 00 You know, way into the future. And it was, it was 40 some years into the future when we were kids. But, uh, yeah, here we are.
2:57 Speaker 01 Think about where we are now with smartphones and AI and all, all that other stuff.
3:04 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Kim Lechner.
3:09 Speaker 01 Hey, Kim.
3:10 Speaker 00 Matt.
3:11 Speaker 01 What's going on, Matt?
3:12 Speaker 00 Alicia Russ.
3:13 Speaker 01 Thanks, Alicia.
3:14 Speaker 00 Melanie Shepherd.
3:15 Speaker 01 Hey, Melanie.
3:16 Speaker 00 Kyle.
3:16 Speaker 01 Good old Kyle.
3:17 Speaker 00 AJ Kowzak.
3:19 Speaker 01 Well, hey, Kowzak.
3:21 Speaker 00 Ange C. and the big D.
3:24 Speaker 01 Well, thanks, Ange C. and that big D.
3:28 Speaker 00 Which on Patreon you thought meant Detroit.
3:31 Speaker 01 I did.
3:33 Speaker 00 In all honesty.
3:34 Speaker 01 You corrected me.
3:35 Speaker 00 We had Levana Meadows.
3:37 Speaker 01 What's going on, Levana?
3:38 Speaker 00 Matt Davis.
3:39 Speaker 01 Hey, Matt Davis.
3:40 Speaker 00 Rose.
3:41 Speaker 01 Uh, Rose.
3:42 Speaker 00 Tony.
3:43 Speaker 01 Boy, whoop, yo, Tony.
3:45 Speaker 00 Tony, Tony, Tony.
3:46 Speaker 01 Tony, Tony, Tony.
3:47 Speaker 00 And last but not least, Howard Horn jumped out to our highest level.
3:50 Speaker 01 Well, thanks, Howard.
3:51 Speaker 00 Yeah, appreciate all the new support. And then if we go back into the vault,
3:57 Speaker 00 this week we selected Insane Kane.
4:00 Speaker 01 Well, thanks, Kane.
4:01 Speaker 00 Yeah, appreciate the continued support as well. We also had a really large PayPal donation from our very, very good friend, Melinda Worgacki.
4:11 Speaker 01 Worgacki.
4:12 Speaker 00 Yeah.
4:12 Speaker 01 It's fun to say.
4:13 Speaker 00 Yeah, so she's just down the street from us, not that far and, uh, Such a great person comes to Crime Con with her husband. I met him. He's, he's a cool guy too. So we appreciate it very much. So Gibbs, right now, we have a brand new episode out on True Crime All The Time Unsolved, where we're talking about the Mad Trapper of Rat River. Sounds like a good title for a movie.
4:40 Speaker 01 Yeah, it does, actually.
4:41 Speaker 00 But this was a Canadian fugitive who killed two RCMP officers. The man was killed by a posse and they identified this guy, but investigators believe the identification was wrong. They believe it was an alias. So, you know, the mystery is really around, you know, who truly was the Mad Trapper? And it's, it's been a mystery that's endured for, you know, almost a hundred years.
5:13 Speaker 01 Very interesting case.
5:14 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah. Make sure you check it out. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All The Time?
5:21 Speaker 01 I am.
5:22 Speaker 00 We're talking about the murder of Carrie Farver. Carrie Farver went missing in November 2012 after spending the night at her new boyfriend's house, days after she disappeared. Her boyfriend began receiving harassing and threatening text messages. Investigators came to believe Carrie was not actually sending these messages and they ultimately identified an unlikely suspect. So a little bit of a mystery here to start out. I don't want to give away, right, who the killer is, but I definitely want to talk about Carrie Farver. Carrie was a single mother who worked as a computer programmer in Omaha, Nebraska. Carrie's
6:07 Speaker 00 mother Nancy Rainey said she was diagnosed with depression in her late twenties, a few years after she had her son. Carrie was later diagnosed with bipolar disorder. She went to therapy and was prescribed medication. And there were some times when she stopped taking it, but it was said by her mother that in 2012, Carrie was in a good place and was working her dream job.
6:36 Speaker 01 So by all accounts, pretty happy.
6:38 Speaker 00 Yeah, I think she was doing good. She obviously experienced some, some mental health issues.
6:45 Speaker 01 Sure.
6:46 Speaker 00 She went to get treated. She was prescribed medication. You know, a lot of people with bipolar disorder. You know, they have to take that medication.
6:57 Speaker 01 Oh, it's a critical.
6:59 Speaker 00 And if they don't, you know, their behavior can change dramatically. I think I've said it before, but I used to work with a guy who was very open about his bipolar disorder and you could tell day by day whether or not he had taken his medication.
7:17 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:18 Speaker 00 And if I asked him about it, because I saw that, you know, he was acting a little differently, he would be very honest and say, yeah, I forgot to take it today.
7:26 Speaker 01 You're like, can you go home and take it, please?
7:28 Speaker 00 It was noticeable.
7:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:31 Speaker 00 In October 2012, Carrie met Dave Krupa at the auto repair shop he managed in Omaha. Dave moved to the area earlier that year after recently separating from his long-term girlfriend, Amy Flora. Dave and Amy had been together since 2000 and they had two children. They gradually grew apart over the years. Now, sources didn't really go into detail about the breakup, but it seems as though it was fairly amicable. Amy moved to Omaha with the kids and Dave moved closer to them. And I could see a lot of dads doing that. You know, you're in this relationship.
8:13 Speaker 00 You have kids together. The relationship fizzles out and you decide to, to break it off. Well, one of the individuals wants to move somewhere else with the kids.
8:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:28 Speaker 00 Now, depending on how far that is, you can see a lot of people wanting to be closer. They want to be able to see their kids.
8:38 Speaker 01 Of course they do. Yeah.
8:40 Speaker 00 They don't want to have to drive three hours or two states over. So, hey, gonna make the decision to move closer to where they are so I can see them more often. So Dave moves and he signed up for some dating websites. The first person he met was a woman named Shanna Elizabeth Gogier, who goes by the nickname Liz. Dave and Liz started dating in the late spring or early summer of 2012. During their first date, Liz told Dave that she was also a single mother of two kids who were similar in age to Dave's. Dave thought, you know, this is a woman who was down to earth, energetic and full of life.
9:24 Speaker 00 She owned a cleaning company and was described as an animal lover. They were both interested in motorcycles, heavy metal and sci fi movies.
9:34 Speaker 01 So they have a lot of things in common.
9:36 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, it seems as though they did. Now, I think we've talked about this before. You know, I am not familiar with dating websites. Because when I got married, the internet was just a little tiny baby.
9:53 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:53 Speaker 00 It was definitely, if there was dating websites, I was not using them.
9:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:59 Speaker 00 I think they've come a long way. I could see a guy like Dave, right? He moves to a new place. He's now single and okay, he wants to meet someone. I guess that's the way you do it.
10:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
10:14 Speaker 00 In the old days, you would just go to a bar and or go to church.
10:18 Speaker 01 Or the grocery store.
10:19 Speaker 00 Or the grocery store or something like that and hope to run into somebody. According to Dave, he made it clear from the first date that he wasn't looking for anything serious.
10:31 Speaker 01 Got to set those expectations right from the beginning.
10:34 Speaker 00 I don't think it's a bad thing. I mean, again, do you want to lead someone on? And I would say definitely not. You know, if you're meeting someone for the first time, you're striking up a relationship and that person is looking for, you know, marriage, kids, and that's not you. You better make that clear right off the bat.
10:58 Speaker 01 Yeah, probably a very important conversation to have.
11:02 Speaker 00 Yeah. Their relationship escalated and they started sleeping together by the fourth date. But Dave was honest and he told Liz he still wanted to see other women. Okay.
11:15 Speaker 01 Well, you can't blame him for honesty.
11:17 Speaker 00 No, it seems like he was very honest. I, I just always wonder how those conversations go. Now, I get it. We're not exclusive.
11:25 Speaker 01 Right.
11:26 Speaker 00 I can imagine there's some people who would be okay with that and many others who would not be. Like that might be a deal breaker.
11:34 Speaker 01 Oh, sure. It's a deal breaker for many.
11:36 Speaker 00 Yeah, to many people. Several months later, he met Carrie Farver when she brought her car into his shop for maintenance. Dave told ABC about their first interaction. He said, when we looked at each other, there was a little spark. She's showing me something inside the vehicle and we're standing there and we're very close. And there was some tension. Now I have not experienced that in a very long time. If I said anything different, my wife would literally kick my rear end. But I do remember meeting my wife for the very first time.
12:16 Speaker 00 And that's what it felt like. It was just like a spark. I don't know how else to describe it. And we've been together almost 30, well, more than 30 years. We'll have our 30 year anniversary this year.
12:30 Speaker 01 See, it's been good to you.
12:32 Speaker 00 It has, and she has too. A few weeks later, Dave found Carrie's online dating profile and asked her out. They hit it off during their first date on October 29th, 2012. Dave invited Carrie to his apartment after dinner. Carrie told him that she wasn't looking for anything serious, which Dave liked because like we already said, he wasn't ready to be in a committed relationship.
12:57 Speaker 01 So again, he's found somebody on the same page as him.
13:01 Speaker 00 During their date, Liz Gallier was blowing up Dave's phone. Now, at first he ignored her. He then responded and said he was on a date and he couldn't answer her. Soon after they arrived at Dave's apartment, Liz started ringing the bell at the security door of Dave's building. Dave left Carrie in his apartment and went to speak to Liz. She was Cry and insisted Dave let her in so that she could get some of her belongings. He left Liz at the security door so he could explain what was going on to Carrie. Carrie decided to leave and pass by Liz on her way out. It was a brief encounter by all accounts. The women didn't even speak to each other.
13:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, still kind of awkward, I think.
13:49 Speaker 00 I would say it's probably a very awkward situation for both women, especially Carrie, I would think.
13:58 Speaker 01 Right, but even Dave probably felt.
14:02 Speaker 00 Oh, I'm in the middle of, uh, you know what?
14:05 Speaker 01 Exactly.
14:06 Speaker 00 So, I mean, it sounds to me, Gibbs, like, you know, Dave was meeting women online. He was going out on dates and, you know, maybe doing a little bit more. But when he met Carrie, I think he really liked her. And at that point, maybe things had cooled off with Liz some. Or he was seeing Carrie as superior to Liz. I don't know for sure.
14:33 Speaker 01 Yeah, maybe he just liked Carrie more.
14:35 Speaker 00 He was definitely still interested in Carrie, who lived over an hour away from Omaha in Macedonia, Iowa. When Carrie was given a challenging project at work, Dave offered to let her stay with him since her office was just around the corner from his house. And Carrie agreed to this arrangement. So I think kind of a fortuitous situation.
14:59 Speaker 01 Fortuitous.
15:01 Speaker 00 Yeah, very close, but you know, an hour's drive. I mean, that's nothing to sneeze at. I mean, if you really like someone, you're going to make that drive.
15:09 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's no big deal.
15:10 Speaker 00 I know some people make much, much further drives.
15:14 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
15:15 Speaker 00 To be with the, the people they care about.
15:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
15:18 Speaker 00 But if you're given the opportunity, which is what sounds like happened here. You know, she gets this job. It's right around the corner from his apartment. So he's like, hey, why don't you just crash with me and it'll save you a bunch of time.
15:35 Speaker 01 That's right.
15:36 Speaker 00 We also might.
15:37 Speaker 01 Hang out together.
15:38 Speaker 00 Hang out, get closer, see where this thing goes. On November 9th or 10th, Carrie's vehicle was vandalized with spray paint while parked in Macedonia, Iowa. On the morning of November 13th, 2012, Dave got ready for work, gave Carrie a kiss and told her he'd see her later that evening. Carrie left for work after him. Around mid morning, Dave received a text from Carrie asking to move in together, which he thought was very strange because they'd already discussed having just a casual relationship. So, you know, yeah, he's offering to let her stay at his apartment, but it's not full time.
16:21 Speaker 01 Yeah.
16:22 Speaker 00 It's just, you know, when she drives in, goes to work.
16:26 Speaker 01 Now he's like, hmm, this is getting ramped up a little bit.
16:29 Speaker 00 Moving in together is, is essentially 24/7, other than when you're apart from work.
16:34 Speaker 01 It's a big deal.
16:35 Speaker 00 Dave said he didn't want to live together. Carrie responded per ABC, fine, I hate you. I'm dating someone else. I don't want to see you anymore. Go away. Okay. Uh, I mean, I think if you're Dave, you're like, what has changed? All of a sudden, we go from seemingly being on the same page.
17:00 Speaker 01 Right.
17:00 Speaker 00 About a pretty casual relationship, even though you're staying over, you know, some nights during the week when you're working at, at your office to let's move in together. And when he says, no, all right, I hate you. I'm already seeing someone else anyway. F off, you know, all, all that stuff.
17:21 Speaker 01 Pretty drastic change.
17:22 Speaker 00 It does seem that way. And I'm sure he had to be scratching his head saying, I don't know what's going on. Carrie wasn't at the apartment when Dave got home from work. He never saw her again, but the angry texts continued. On November 15th, Carrie started blowing up Dave's phone. According to ABC, one text said, I hate you. You've ruined my life. You're a terrible person. Dave said he was relieved and thought that he had, quote, dodged a bullet.
17:55 Speaker 01 Exactly what I was thinking.
17:56 Speaker 00 Well, I think if you put yourself in Dave's perspective, you know, this doesn't seem like the person you thought Carrie was.
18:06 Speaker 01 Right.
18:07 Speaker 00 She's now ramped things up to a level that you didn't believe they were going to go to. Not only about, you know, trying to move in together very quickly, but then becoming hateful pretty quickly as well.
18:24 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'm sure he's thinking, man, what if we did move in together? And all of a sudden this personality came out.
18:29 Speaker 00 Or got married or, you know, had children or whatever it was.
18:34 Speaker 01 I'd be stuck.
18:35 Speaker 00 Carrie's mother, Nancy Rainey, had also been receiving strange texts from Carrie. Carrie told her she got a new job in Kansas. Nancy tried to call, but Carrie didn't answer.
18:47 Speaker 01 Strange.
18:48 Speaker 00 Yeah, I think definitely strange. You know, we talked about it from Dave's perspective, but now you're talking about it from the perspective of Carrie's mother. You know, I don't know how often they talked. You know, I always kind of equate it to how often my wife talks to her mother, which is at least once a day, sometimes multiple times a day.
19:13 Speaker 01 I know.
19:14 Speaker 00 And it's never just text messages.
19:17 Speaker 01 Yeah.
19:18 Speaker 00 You know, they're, they're speaking together on the phone.
19:21 Speaker 01 I'm always like, what could somebody say to another person that many times in a day?
19:28 Speaker 00 Yeah, you and I like each other, but we don't talk every single day.
19:32 Speaker 01 No, we're good.
19:33 Speaker 00 You know, on November 15th, 2012, Carrie texted her employers and told them she was quitting and moving to Texas. On the 16th, Nancy reported Carrie missing after she missed a family wedding and failed to pick up her son.
19:51 Speaker 01 Critical thing right there.
19:52 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, you and I talk about this a lot, especially in the unsolved episodes where, you know, at what point in time does a family member, you know, really start to get worried? Right? There's worry that sets in initially, but there's always something that kind of cements it in a person's mind.
20:15 Speaker 01 Right.
20:15 Speaker 00 That something really is going on to the point where they need to, you know, file a missing persons report. And, you know, missing a family wedding is one thing, but not picking up your son?
20:29 Speaker 01 That's huge.
20:29 Speaker 00 That is, that's a big deal. And I'm sure her mother knew this wasn't her daughter. This was not like her. When filing the report, Nancy mentioned that Carrie had bipolar disorder and was on medication. According to Nancy, the police told her that sometimes people behave erratically when they stop taking their medication. She felt like they weren't taking her report seriously.
20:55 Speaker 01 Well, maybe they weren't. Once she mentioned that she was taking medication, maybe they just assumed she's off her meds.
21:03 Speaker 00 And that's what's causing, you know, this type of behavior. And there's no doubt that it could, right? In some situations, but you know, I do think a lot of times the police get in trouble making too many assumptions. You know, we all know and have talked about the old kind of police line years and years ago, which was somebody goes missing, even those people under 18 years of age. And they're like, ah, you know, they'll be back. They just, they're blowing off steam or, or something like that. Now, Dave Krupa continued receiving texts and emails. Over the next two years,
21:46 Speaker 00 he would receive tens of thousands of messages.
21:50 Speaker 01 That is bizarre.
21:51 Speaker 00 Yeah. I mean, I know we've talked about it. I don't do a lot of texting and emailing outside of work, right? For the podcast. I text friends and family sometimes, but tens of thousands, that seems like a lot to me.
22:08 Speaker 01 I think that would require a new email and a new phone and abandon the old stuff.
22:15 Speaker 00 But the different number?
22:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:17 Speaker 00 And it wasn't just the number of texts, but they also became increasingly threatening over time. According to ABC, Carrie wrote things like, "I will do what I can to make you suffer. We belong together, Dave. My favorite thing to do is stand outside and stare at you. I hate you so much that I want to drive a knife in your heart. I will destroy your life and take your happiness." So, I mean, you know, there's a stalkerish vibe there for sure.
22:51 Speaker 01 Sure.
22:51 Speaker 00 But then there's also a threatening vibe when you say, "I hate you so much. I want to drive a knife in your heart."
23:00 Speaker 01 It also makes you wonder, and I've said this before, "Oh, well, you know what? I will take you back."
23:07 Speaker 00 Yes. Now that you've said all that, I mean, I have got to take you back because you're just proving to me how much you love me.
23:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, exactly.
23:17 Speaker 00 By saying these very outlandish and threatening things.
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25:48 Speaker 00 Dave did ultimately change his phone number and email address multiple times, but the messages still kept coming. Okay. Would you be a little freaked out by that?
25:59 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
25:59 Speaker 00 How is this person, you know, getting my new phone number? How are they getting my new email? And, you know, this is a person that I went out on what X number of dates? She crashed over at my place of however many times. This was not a nine year love affair.
26:20 Speaker 01 No.
26:21 Speaker 00 And she caught me cheating and is very upset. If you think about it from his perspective, this would have to be just unbelievably strange.
26:31 Speaker 01 And that's where I think it comes in where he thinks, wow, I really dodged the bullet.
26:35 Speaker 00 Yeah.
26:36 Speaker 01 Now he's like, I don't know, how much did I really dodge? Cause I'm paying the price for it.
26:40 Speaker 00 I'm still, I'm still living through it. Both Dave and the police believed Carrie was sending these messages. Dave knew he was being stopped. He told ABC on one specific occasion, I was sitting in my lazy boy with my feet up, watching TV, trying to relax. And it's nighttime and I get a text saying, I see you. You're sitting in your chair with your feet propped up, wearing a blue shirt. And those things were all true.
27:11 Speaker 01 Yeah. Right there. I think I would lose my, you know, why?
27:14 Speaker 00 Well, that's going to be a scary thing to anyone, especially when you believe the person sending these has also threatened you.
27:24 Speaker 01 Right. With a knife in your heart?
27:27 Speaker 00 Yeah. Carrie was also allegedly sending threatening messages to Liz Gollure. Liz told Dave she was receiving harassing texts and emails. One day in November, 2012, she called him and said her garage had been vandalized. Someone spray painted whore from Dave on the inside. Liz reported this incident to the police. So, you know, it's not just Dave. Liz is getting these strange and sometimes threatening texts and emails.
28:01 Speaker 00 But you know, she's also having her home vandalized.
28:07 Speaker 01 Yeah, your personal space has been invaded.
28:10 Speaker 00 And somebody wrote, you know, something very demeaning about you. Meanwhile, Carrie Farver missed her birthday. She missed her son's birthday, Thanksgiving, and even her father's funeral.
28:23 Speaker 01 Which would be very hard to understand. Miss her birthday, okay. Miss her son's birthday and miss her dad's funeral?
28:32 Speaker 00 Well, I mean, to me, if that was, you know, one of my family members, I'm really looking at it from one of two angles. Either this person is really upset and wants nothing to do with not only us, but she doesn't even want anything to do with her son.
28:52 Speaker 01 Yeah.
28:53 Speaker 00 Maybe that's because she's not taking her medication. I don't know. Or the alternative is some things happened to her and we just don't know what it is.
29:05 Speaker 01 Well, that's a good point, right? Cause yeah, she missed her son's birthday, but she hasn't been with her son this whole time.
29:12 Speaker 00 Yeah. So it's not just missing his birthday. She's abandoned him. Nancy Rainey received texts from her daughter and pleaded with her to call. The texts to Nancy were cruel, calling her a bad, controlling mother. They were also full of grammar and spelling errors, which wasn't like Carrie. And I know you and I have talked about this in other cases. When you communicate with someone either on the phone or especially in texts or emails, you learn over time how that person talks.
29:50 Speaker 01 Yeah.
29:51 Speaker 00 And let's focus in on just written communication because that's what we're talking about here. You know, if a person abbreviates everything, you know, if they spell words correctly, you know, I know when I get a text from you, there are going to be some spelling errors. There are also going to be some words that make absolutely no sense.
30:14 Speaker 01 According to you.
30:16 Speaker 00 But they're coming from you. It says Gibby on the phone. And so I'm assuming these are you. Now, if I got a text that was talking about, you know, astrophysics and just stuff way above your pay grade, I'm going to have to start to question it. If there's equations in there, there's words that I know for a fact, you have no idea, not only what they mean, but also how they're spelled.
30:50 Speaker 01 You're like, either somebody got his phone or he's been drinking a lot.
30:54 Speaker 00 Or he took one of those pills like in that movie Limitless.
30:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
30:57 Speaker 00 And now has unlocked like
31:01 Speaker 01 Full potential.
31:02 Speaker 00 70% of his brain.
31:03 Speaker 01 That'd be awesome. And just like you, I know if I receive a text from you with more than one word, it's not you.
31:10 Speaker 00 It's not me.
31:11 Speaker 01 Huh, that's weird. He wrote a whole paragraph. That's not Mike. Who is this?
31:16 Speaker 00 But let's also talk about Nancy, right? This is rough coming from your daughter. You're already worried about her and now she's sending messages calling you a bad mother. Carrie's son Max also received messages from her saying she was going to pick him up, but she never did. Now, you talk about what kind of mom would just abandon their child. Not many. It does happen, but not many. What kind of mom is going to go an extended period of time without seeing their child and then repeatedly tell them they're going to pick them up and then never do it?
31:57 Speaker 01 That's cruel.
31:58 Speaker 00 It is cruel. In January 2013, Dave was returning home from work and noticed a familiar vehicle parked near his apartment. He realized it was Carrie's Ford Explorer.
32:11 Speaker 00 Dave took a picture of the license plate and sent it to the police. When the police searched the car, they found one fingerprint on a mint container. It didn't match Carrie's fingerprints and there were no matches in a national database. Five months after Carrie went missing, a man called Nancy Rainey to tell her he saw Carrie at a homeless shelter and she wanted her mother to pick her up. Nancy and investigators went to the shelter only to learn Carrie had never been there. Okay, so who is this guy? Was he put up to this by someone else? Did he do something to Carrie?
32:52 Speaker 00 Or is this one of those situations, Gibbs, where someone learns about someone being missing and they just want to mess with the family?
33:01 Speaker 01 Unfortunately, we know that happens.
33:02 Speaker 00 It does happen. Sick. Six months after her disappearance, Carrie's son Max messaged her on Facebook and received a reply. He asked Carrie to answer three questions to prove she was his mother. His middle name, the name of their first dog, and the name of his best friend. She never responded. It's actually really smart on the part of Max.
33:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'm tired of you toying with me. I want to know if you actually are my mom.
33:33 Speaker 00 Dave and Liz were still dating on and off and they were both still receiving hostile texts. It was common for their phones to get texts and emails while they were together. On one occasion, Dave received an email from Carrie threatening to kill Liz. The email included a photo of a woman tied up in the trunk of a car. So she sent something to Dave saying, hey, I'm going to put a knife through your heart, sent something to Liz threatening to kill her and, and, you know, included a picture of a woman tied up in the trunk of a car. This is very threatening stuff.
34:11 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, you have to be alarmed.
34:13 Speaker 00 This is not just, you know, hey, I'm going to kick your ass.
34:16 Speaker 01 No.
34:16 Speaker 00 This is, I'm, I'm going to kill you.
34:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, this is, I need to go see the authorities and make sure they're aware.
34:23 Speaker 00 And it went a step further. Carrie also sent Dave a link to a fake obituary for Liz. Liz and Dave broke up in early August 2013. And I can understand why that relationship might have been a little tough to keep going. You know, if you think that there is someone out there who, you know, is very upset at Dave and maybe Liz by extension because she's with Dave. Okay, maybe we need to go our separate ways.
35:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, you don't want harm to come to whoever you're dating at that time either.
35:06 Speaker 00 On August 17th, Liz's house caught on fire, killing two dogs, a cat and a snake.
35:14 Speaker 01 Wow.
35:15 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, that's, that's horrible. I mean, there were no people that were injured, but multiple animals were killed. Liz believed Carrie was responsible and Dave and Liz both received emails from her claiming responsibility for the fire. So not too hard, right? To think that she was responsible if she's sending emails saying, yeah, I did that. Dave became so paranoid that he purchased a gun for personal protection.
35:45 Speaker 01 Well, when your ex-girlfriend's house catches on fire and you have all these threatening messages coming at you, you have to find a way to protect yourself.
35:56 Speaker 00 You have to start thinking about your personal safety for sure. I mean, you know, if I didn't already own a gun, you know, I'm going out and getting one as soon as I get that text that says, hey, you're in your lazy boy with your feet up, uh, wearing a blue shirt. Yeah, that would be enough to, to freak me out. At one point, Dave's auto shop was vandalized. In January 2014, Dave had a woman over at his apartment. She saw him receive multiple messages and heard someone pulling on the front door handle. When the two of them were laying in bed that night, someone threw a brick through the window.
36:36 Speaker 01 Well, that gets you going, won't it?
36:38 Speaker 00 Well, and it's also gonna make you rethink this relationship, especially if it's very, very new. Okay, you're a great guy, but I ain't putting up with this BS.
36:49 Speaker 01 Yeah, you're just not worth all that.
36:51 Speaker 00 There's plenty of other guys out there who are not being stalked, who do not have bricks being thrown into their window at night. By 2014, Dave's ex-girlfriend, Amy Flora, and his children were receiving threatening messages. I mean, this is just an escalation, Gibbs, of epic proportions. You know, it was one thing to think that Carrie was sending Dave messages, to think that she was sending Liz messages, but now his ex-girlfriend and his kids?
37:30 Speaker 01 Carrie, I mean, you're never gonna be okay with anybody messing with your kids.
37:34 Speaker 00 No, no, absolutely not. And even though they're exes, I'm sure he still had feelings towards Amy. I mean, let's face it, she was the mother of his children. He doesn't want to see anything happen to her either. In the spring of 2015, detectives Ryan Avis and Jim Doty from the Potawatomi County Sheriff's Office in Iowa volunteered to take on the case, to try to solve it. Jim Doty decided to work the case as if Carrie were dead, and Ryan Avis worked the case as if she were still alive.
38:11 Speaker 01 Pretty smart way to do that.
38:12 Speaker 00 No, it seems like a very inventive way to do it.
38:18 Speaker 00 They went through the original case file and noticed there'd been no activity in Carrie's bank account the entire time she'd been missing. And I'm telling you, Gibbs, you know, I harp on this in a lot of unsolved cases. You know, is it possible for someone to kind of go off the grid and just leave behind everything? Not access any of their bank accounts or anything like that? Yes, technically it is possible, but it can't be that easy.
38:51 Speaker 01 Could have its challenges.
38:53 Speaker 00 Yeah, absolutely. Detective Avis couldn't find any evidence to prove Carrie was still alive. Liz Gallier stuck out to Detective Jim Doty. She and Carrie didn't really know each other, but Liz's name was in many police reports connected to the case, which made her a person of interest. The team asked the digital forensics administrator to get involved. Investigator Anthony Kava told ABC, "We knew these messages don't seem to really be coming from Carrie Farver. Carrie, or the imposter who was pretending to be Carrie, sent Dave
39:34 Speaker 00 about 15,000 email messages over a three-year span. It might have been upwards of 25,000 or 50,000 texts in all." So whoever was pretending to be Carrie got more and more sophisticated in what they were doing to try to hide their IP address, to try to hide their real identity.
39:58 Speaker 01 That's so many text messages.
40:01 Speaker 00 I get it. It's over three years, but I feel like your phone would just be blowing up constant.
40:06 Speaker 01 Yeah, nonstop.
40:08 Speaker 00 And for me, that would be very unnerving to have to check your phone every time you hear the little ding.
40:15 Speaker 01 Yeah. Go to bed, wake up and it says, you have 1,200 uh.
40:21 Speaker 00 Yeah, that would be.
40:22 Speaker 01 Messages or something.
40:24 Speaker 00 Overwhelming for me. Back in 2013, Dave and Liz agreed to have the content of their phone downloaded. Liz's phone data included a photo of Carrie's vehicle. The metadata showed the picture was taken on December 24th, 2012, before the vehicle was found, which meant Liz knew where it was before the police did. The data also indicated that on November 6th and 7th of 2012, Liz made six calls to Carrie's home landline using the star 67 prefix to disguise the number.
41:04 Speaker 01 That's interesting.
41:05 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, I think if you're the detectives, your ears got to perk up at that, right? What does this mean? Detectives wondered why Liz would call Carrie six times when she said she only met her once in passing. Investigators also found the photo of the woman who was tied up, which was emailed to Dave from Carrie. However, this photo was taken by Liz's phone. Liz's phone data included a video that was uploaded to YouTube on the account Farver. The video showed an apartment complex that looked like Dave Crouppen. So I mean, I think at this point detectives gotta be wondering, right? What is going on with Liz?
41:49 Speaker 00 Could she be behind, you know, some of the stuff that's been going on? The IP address used to access the account belonged to a guy named Todd Butterball, who happened to be a man Liz had been seeing since September 2010. Todd and Liz were together until September 2015. He thought that they were exclusive, but she was seeing Dave during their relationship.
42:16 Speaker 01 He was probably like, all right, I'm out of here.
42:18 Speaker 00 Yeah, once he found that out, I'm sure Todd helped Liz with her bills, helped her buy a car and let her and her kids move in with him at one point. Todd also received messages from Carrie Farver in January 2013. She said she was friends with Liz and Liz had given her his number in case of an emergency. When Todd asked Liz about Carrie, she said they were friends. And again, this is so strange because to everyone else, these were two people that met briefly in passing one time.
42:55 Speaker 01 Right.
42:55 Speaker 00 At Dave's apartment.
42:57 Speaker 01 So how could she be friends?
42:59 Speaker 00 Todd didn't learn about Dave Krupa until Liz's phone data was downloaded. Liz told him she dated Dave before she met him and they remained friends. All the we're just friends line.
43:13 Speaker 01 We're just friends.
43:14 Speaker 00 Used by many, many cheaters over the years.
43:17 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:18 Speaker 00 During the two years Todd and Liz lived together from July 2013 to the end of 2015, Liz never mentioned that she was being harassed by Carrie. Now, how strange would that be? I mean, we've talked about the level of harassment here, the level of texts, emails. You wouldn't confide in your partner that that was going on?
43:43 Speaker 01 You'd think you would.
43:45 Speaker 00 Liz became a person of interest and investigators started believing she was posing as Carrie. As mentioned by Anthony Kava earlier, Liz did a pretty decent job hiding her trail. She used applications and digital proxies to conceal her IP addresses, which made it more difficult to trace her online and phone activity to her home. Kava told A and E, for instance, she was using a website that allowed her to send emails and text messages on a certain day and time when she was with Dave Krupa. They would both receive messages at the same time from Carrie. Now, why is that important?
44:29 Speaker 01 Well, I think it works great, right? Cause now it makes it look like Carrie sent them.
44:35 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, if you and I are out to dinner, we're sitting across from each other, we're eating some wings, we're drinking a beer and our phones go off at the same time.
44:47 Speaker 01 Right.
44:48 Speaker 00 Pretty obvious that neither one of us sent that to the other because our phones are sitting there on the table.
44:54 Speaker 01 Yeah, you didn't see me type anything in. I didn't see you type anything in.
44:59 Speaker 00 Pretty sneaky.
45:00 Speaker 01 It is. But that whole time, you know what I'm thinking at that table?
45:03 Speaker 00 Why is Ferguson even out of his basement?
45:07 Speaker 01 That's a good thought too, but I'm like, who's paying?
45:10 Speaker 00 Who's paying for this dinner?
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46:32 Speaker 00 Liz had also set up more than two dozen fake email addresses with some variation of Carrie's name. Kava estimated that Liz spent 40 to 50 hours a week impersonating Carrie.
46:45 Speaker 01 Talk about obsession.
46:47 Speaker 00 Forty to 50 hours a week.
46:49 Speaker 01 Wow.
46:50 Speaker 00 You could get a second full-time job.
46:53 Speaker 01 Yeah.
46:54 Speaker 00 Not that anyone would want one, but if you had to have one. Kava developed a program to narrow down a list of top IP addresses linked to the threatening emails. One of the IP addresses traced back to Liz's home that burned down in August 2013. The detective spoke to Nancy Rainey in May 2015. This was the first time someone told her they did not think Carrie left of her own free will. And that had to be a very emotional conversation because I don't think Nancy ever thought Carrie left of her own free will.
47:34 Speaker 01 No.
47:35 Speaker 00 So to hear that kind of corroboration that now the police are believing that might be the case as well, that had to be a big deal for her.
47:46 Speaker 01 I think so. What a relief that would have been to have somebody on your side now.
47:50 Speaker 00 Well, and, and also maybe investigating the case through that lens would make a big difference. But Nancy also provided a new piece of information. In 2012, she received a text from Carrie saying she sold all her furniture. Carrie asked her mother to let the buyer into her house to pick it up. Afterwards, she received a photo of a check that was made out to Carrie and signed by Shanna Gollier.
48:21 Speaker 01 Okay.
48:22 Speaker 00 So this further linked Liz to the disappearance. The 2015 investigative team also determined that the fingerprint found in Carrie's vehicle matched Liz Gollier. You know who's not looking good right now?
48:39 Speaker 01 Liz.
48:40 Speaker 00 Liz Gollier. On December 4th, 2015, Liz walked into the Potawatomi County Sheriff's Office and said she was there to file a harassment complaint against Amy Flora, Dave's ex. After she left the station, Detective Ryan Avis drove to her house to interview her, saying it was about the complaint. Liz told Avis she thought Amy Flora was sending The messages and pretending to be Carrie. So Ava's asked if he could download her phone data. A second time to review the messages. Liz agreed during their conversation.
49:20 Speaker 00 Liz mentioned she knew Dave's gun was missing and thought that Amy stole it. She identified the exact type of gun he had, but was pretty vague when asked further questions. Dave had reported his gun stolen during the investigation. On December 5th, 2015, soon after Dave and Liz decided to take another break. Liz was shot in the leg while walking alone at night in the Big Lake Park in Council Bluffs, Iowa. Liz said she drove to the park at 6:00 PM and parked near a walking trail. She walked for a short distance and sat down on a bench.
50:01 Speaker 00 While she was sitting, a female voice ordered her to lie down and made a vulgar comment. The suspect didn't demand anything from her and made no further statements before shooting her. Liz said she didn't know who the shooter was, but suspected it was Amy Flora. And again, you know, Amy was Dave's ex ex, right? The mother of his children, they had not been together for some time.
50:30 Speaker 01 Right.
50:31 Speaker 00 I mean, is it out of the question that she could be upset about, you know, the new person in Dave's life? No, not out of the question, but if she still wanted Dave, she probably wouldn't have left. You know, it just doesn't seem like a situation where, you know, she leaves the relationship. And then all of a sudden she's so jealous, she's going to shoot this woman that's in his life.
50:59 Speaker 01 It's unlikely. It's not impossible.
51:02 Speaker 00 Right. I, that's why I said, I never rule anything out. Investigators determined Liz most likely shot herself. Amy Flora was cleared the evening of the shooting. So pretty quickly, right? They realized it wasn't her. Liz was brought in for another interview two weeks after she was shot. She continued pushing for the detectives to look at Amy Flora. Unaware at this point that she was the main suspect. So, you know, she's doing all of these things, including shooting herself in the leg. Right? To try to get this attention off of her.
51:42 Speaker 00 And it sounds like mainly on to Dave's ex, Amy Flora. That's a pretty big step to take, shooting yourself in the leg.
51:52 Speaker 01 That's dedication right there.
51:54 Speaker 00 Now, you know, you want to fake an email or a text or, you know, throw a brick through your own window. Maybe a spray paint, a vulgar comment on your own house. That's one thing.
52:08 Speaker 01 Sure.
52:09 Speaker 00 But you're really taking a step further when you shoot yourself to make it look as though someone's out to get you.
52:17 Speaker 01 But if you went too extreme with something earlier, like murdering somebody.
52:23 Speaker 00 Then you would take some extreme steps to try to not get caught.
52:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
52:29 Speaker 00 Detectives Doty and Avis told Liz they believed her and they wanted her help incriminating Amy. They asked Liz to reach out to Amy to see if she would tell her anything about Carrie. Almost immediately, Liz fabricated emails she claimed were from Amy. In these emails, Amy confessed to the shooting. The detectives continued pushing Liz to ask Amy for details about Carrie's murder. A few days later, Liz forwarded an email allegedly from Amy, admitting she stabbed Carrie three or four times and put her body in a garbage bag. Now as time passed, Liz became upset that Amy had not been arrested.
53:14 Speaker 00 Right? She's providing them this valuable information. Gibbs, right? Incriminating Amy Flores. Why have the police not, you know, arrested her? Detective Jim Doty told Liz, they needed more information from Amy. That only the killer would know. And it was just within hours of this conversation that Liz forwarded more confession emails, allegedly from Amy, mentioning that Carrie was stabbed to death in her own vehicle.
53:46 Speaker 01 Conveniently, they get this email.
53:48 Speaker 00 Yeah, it's all of it's very convenient. But, you know, as you look at what the detectives are doing. Number one, they're, they're trying to catch Liz in a trap. Right? They already suspect her, but they're playing her essentially. By saying, yeah, we believe you. We think Amy did it. We just need your help. But what are they really getting Liz to do? Provide details about the murder that only the killer would know.
54:20 Speaker 01 Once it's proven that Liz is sending these emails, that it pretty much shows that Amy's not the killer. It's Liz.
54:29 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, I, I think they did a, a really kind of masterful job of playing her because she doesn't know what they know. And she's giving them information that she probably wouldn't if she thought they were looking at her as the killer. Investigators decided to go back and search Carrie's car for a third time on February 18th, 2016. This time they pulled a fabric seat cover off the passenger seat and found a red stain, which was determined to be Carrie's blood. Because the murder most likely occurred in Omaha. Local detective Dave Schneider brought Liz in for questioning
55:12 Speaker 00 and confronted her with all the evidence against her. Liz denied knowing anything about Carrie's murder. And said, she didn't even have internet. First of all, this is not the early 1990s.
55:27 Speaker 01 No.
55:28 Speaker 00 Or the mid 1990s. This is the late 2010s. How many people did not have internet at that point in time? During the interrogation, detectives Jim Doty and Ryan Avis searched Liz's apartment. They found some of Carrie's belongings, including her digital camera and camcorder, two days before she disappeared. Carrie used the camcorder to record a video of herself talking about how someone vandalized her car. According to court documents, other items found in Liz's possession included LG cellphones, a black and white floral shower curtain that matched the description of the one purchased
56:12 Speaker 00 at the discount store with Farver's debit card on November 16th, 2012. And, and you know, this is something that you and I go back and forth about in many episodes. Someone who has committed, you know, a horrible crime, then decides to just keep a whole bunch of incriminating evidence lying around their place.
56:38 Speaker 01 Never figured that out.
56:39 Speaker 00 No, no, me neither. I mean, it's hard to prove this is not Carrie's camcorder. There's a video of her on there.
56:47 Speaker 01 Yeah.
56:48 Speaker 00 It's, it just, it blows my mind. On December 22nd, 2016, Liz was arrested and charged with first degree murder. You know, it took a while for Liz to really fully be on the radar. And then once she was, the police were really tactful about, you know, how they went about gathering their evidence.
57:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
57:15 Speaker 00 They're pretty smart about it.
57:16 Speaker 01 They are.
57:17 Speaker 00 And they took their time, but I think it was well worth it. On January 18th, 2017, Liz was ordered to stand trial for murder. A week later, Liz pleaded not guilty and waived her right to a jury trial. The defense believed the judge would move through the evidence faster and wouldn't be distracted by claims that Liz impersonated Carrie. The defense argued there was no evidence Carrie was dead, which you know is going to be a defense argument in a nobody case.
57:50 Speaker 01 Sure.
57:51 Speaker 00 There's no way that the defense cannot make that argument.
57:55 Speaker 01 They have to.
57:55 Speaker 00 It has to come up. A few months before trial, Dave Krupa remembered he had a tablet in storage and he gave it to investigators. Inside the tablet was an SD card that had been in Liz's phone around the time of Carrie's disappearance. The card contained thousands of deleted images. One photo showed a human foot with a tattoo of the Chinese character for the word mother. And Carrie's mother, Nancy Rainey, confirmed that Carrie had that tattoo. A medical examiner viewed the image and determined the foot did belong to a deceased person.
58:39 Speaker 00 And that is huge, right? The defense is saying, well, how do you even know that Carrie Farver is no longer alive? Now, all of a sudden, Liz apparently has pictures of Carrie Farver's foot after she was deceased.
58:58 Speaker 01 Which if you're the defense, you're going, oh shit.
59:01 Speaker 00 But again, just because you delete something, right? How many times have we talked about this? It doesn't mean that it's gone forever.
59:11 Speaker 01 That's true.
59:12 Speaker 00 It doesn't mean that it can't be recovered sometimes.
59:16 Speaker 01 Certain things you have to do to make sure that it's actually deleted.
59:22 Speaker 00 Well.
59:22 Speaker 01 Non-recoverable.
59:23 Speaker 00 But here's my thing. Why did Liz feel the need to take these pictures in the first place?
59:32 Speaker 01 Well, maybe she's kind of like some of the serial killers we talk about. They need to have some.
59:38 Speaker 00 Reminder slash trophy. It could be. It's not smart, though. It never is.
59:43 Speaker 01 It's not.
59:44 Speaker 00 I mean, obviously murder is not smart, but also keeping a bunch of different things that conclusively prove you're the killer is not a smart thing to do.
59:57 Speaker 01 And clearly it bit her in the ass.
59:59 Speaker 00 Liz Gallier's non-jury trial started on May 10th, 2017. The prosecution argued that Carrie was murdered by Liz. Her motive was jealousy over Dave Crouppa. Liz confessed to the murder when she was impersonating Amy Flora via email. She wrote that she stabbed Carrie and burned her body, wrapped her remains in a tarp, and put them in the garbage. The defense countered that the evidence wasn't enough to support a murder conviction, especially because Carrie's body had never been found. They noted that at one point Liz was considered a victim too.
1:00:40 Speaker 00 And I don't think there's any doubt about that. Liz was considered a victim, right? Her house burned down.
1:00:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:00:47 Speaker 00 She was allegedly receiving all of these, you know, threatening texts and emails, much like Dave was.
1:00:57 Speaker 00 I think I remember seeing in the research that she even moved in with Dave after her house burned down, which might have been, you know, a little convenient.
1:01:08 Speaker 01 She did a really good job at trying to make it look like she was being stalked and under attack by Carrie.
1:01:17 Speaker 00 However, the evidence against her was overwhelming. On May 24th, 2017, Liz Goyer was found guilty of first degree murder. Judge Timothy Byrne said, per W O W T, Carrie Farver did not voluntarily disappear and drop off the face of the earth. Very sadly, she was murdered. The court finds beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant intentionally killed Carrie Farver with deliberate and premeditated malice. So, you know, I didn't talk about it when we started talking about the trial, but you know, waiving your right to a jury trial and taking your chances with the judge.
1:02:00 Speaker 00 I can see in some scenarios why that might make sense. I mean, I'm assuming her defense thought, hey, this is our best route. Maybe the jury gets prejudiced based on, you know, the sending of the, the text and the email so much that nothing else matters. Ultimately, it really didn't matter. The judge saw through everything.
1:02:26 Speaker 01 And I think it'd be hard not to see through it all.
1:02:27 Speaker 00 Yeah, I, I think a jury would have come to the same conclusion. On August 15th, 2017, Liz Goyer was sentenced to life in prison for murder and 18 to 20 years for arson. And it did come out, Gibbs, that Liz Goyer burned down her own house, killing her pets.
1:02:50 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's sick.
1:02:52 Speaker 00 You know, you talk about taking this thing as far as it can go. Not only did you murder a woman in the course of trying to make it look like you didn't, you burned your own house down and killed your, your pets.
1:03:08 Speaker 01 And one point shot yourself.
1:03:10 Speaker 00 And shot yourself. Liz's appeal was denied on November 9th, 2018. Dave Krupa has kept a pretty low profile in recent years and lives in Nebraska with his girlfriend.
1:03:23 Speaker 01 I bet he has kept a low profile.
1:03:25 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:03:26 Speaker 01 Poor guy.
1:03:27 Speaker 00 I mean, it's not something that you really wanna. Advertise, right? He didn't do anything wrong, really, but now he did appear in the 2024 documentary Lover, Stalker, Killer, and said he felt some responsibility because according to him, a lot of bad things happen to good people, all because of a series of events that I'm at the center of. I'm very sorry for what happened. If I hadn't met Carrie, she wouldn't have met Liz, and this all wouldn't have happened. If I'd have known the choice was this craziness, or tell Carrie I'm not interested, I would have told Carrie I'm not interested. But you don't get that choice.
1:04:12 Speaker 01 And he's right.
1:04:13 Speaker 00 Yeah, he's absolutely right. Now, you and I both watched this documentary. It was very good.
1:04:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:04:19 Speaker 00 And I knew from the time I saw it that I wanted to cover this case. And, you know, I think, as does happen in a lot of these situations, the people involved, and I'm speaking specifically here about Dave, you know, he's going to feel guilt. He's going to feel remorse. I mean, you heard him say it. If I hadn't met Carrie, she would have never died.
1:04:49 Speaker 01 Right.
1:04:50 Speaker 00 But he's in no way responsible for that. And he, he probably deep down knows it. But it doesn't change the fact that, you know, there's guilt there that probably eats at him.
1:05:03 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'm sure it bugs him, you know, it's, it's somebody that was nice to him, that he may had some feelings for.
1:05:13 Speaker 00 I think he did.
1:05:14 Speaker 01 Yeah. And he also realizes that because of all this stuff going on, Carrie's son no longer has a mom. And him being a parent, he gets that.
1:05:25 Speaker 00 Yeah. No, absolutely. But. This was Liz Gallier and Liz Gallier alone.
1:05:31 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
1:05:32 Speaker 00 I mean, he had nothing to do and there's no way he could have known that she was going to, you know, take this avenue.
1:05:42 Speaker 01 It's just jealousy to the extreme, right?
1:05:45 Speaker 00 Oh, my gosh, it's to the extreme for sure. You know, this was a pretty lengthy, complex case, but investigators have said they're glad. They were able to restore Carrie Farver's reputation, which had been tarnished due to Liz's actions. I mean, really, if you think about it, you know, Carrie Farver lost her life, which is absolutely tragic. But if they don't solve this mystery, then not only is she dead and no one knows for sure, but she's also thought of as a stalker and a harasser. On top of that, she's a mother who abandoned her son
1:06:31 Speaker 00 and wants nothing to do with, you know, her family, her son, all of this. And solving this case kind of wraps all that up and proves that, no, she wasn't that person. She was killed by, you know, someone who was, I mean, went to some of the most lengthy extremes we've ever seen.
1:06:57 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah. But at least Carrie's mom, Carrie's son, they know what happened.
1:07:03 Speaker 00 And they also know that she didn't abandon them. And, you know, for a mom and a son, those are two big things.
1:07:12 Speaker 01 Sure. But this Liz, wow.
1:07:15 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, as we wrap this one up, you know, like I said, I haven't dated for a very, very long time. I hope to never, ever have to date again.
1:07:24 Speaker 01 And your wife would be shaking her head, you're damn right.
1:07:28 Speaker 00 Well, she might be saying, you might, if you don't get your, you know what together.
1:07:31 Speaker 01 That's true.
1:07:32 Speaker 00 And here's the reason why. Truthfully, anytime you meet someone new, there is no way that you can truly know what that person is capable of or what they're going to do in a given situation.
1:07:49 Speaker 01 Very true.
1:07:50 Speaker 00 I mean, you think about Dave, he's meeting women on an online dating site. Okay. I think he even said in the documentary, he was having fun. You know, he had been in a relationship for a while. Now he was single, he was, you know, doing his thing.
1:08:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:08:09 Speaker 00 But you're meeting a bunch of different people and you have no idea what they're capable of.
1:08:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think you have to go through a year or so to really understand somebody and go through the cycles of life to really see what you're getting yourself into.
1:08:27 Speaker 00 Yeah, definitely some ups and downs. How does that person handle different situations? Uh, not just when everything is going great, but you know, hard times as well. But that's not what he, he wasn't looking for long-term relationships. So.
1:08:44 Speaker 01 He was clear about it.
1:08:45 Speaker 00 And he was, he was upfront, he didn't lie to people, it sounds like. He just happened to run into someone who, you know, went to some levels that, uh, you don't see very often.
1:08:58 Speaker 01 And you hope no one ever has to see.
1:09:01 Speaker 00 No, absolutely. That's it for our episode on the murder of Carrie Farver. We got some voicemails, you want to check those out?
1:09:08 Speaker 01 Let's hear them.
1:09:09 Speaker 02 Hi guys, G'day from WA. I'm Kylie from Perth, Western Australia, and I've been listening to your podcast since I came across it earlier this year. It's a great way to pass the time on my driving trips to Albany in our southwest, which is five hours away from me, but has recently been voted Australia's most beautiful spot. So be sure to check it out. My dad lives in a nearby suburb called Innu Point, so that's why I go often. Have to say, I love it when you do the occasional Aussie story. The first one I listened to was David and Catherine Burney, which happened here where I live. I was hoping you might cover the story of Stacey Mitchell, AKA the body in the wheelie bin, which also happened here in Perth. I personally knew one of the killers through my work and they are incarcerated with Catherine
1:09:54 Speaker 02 Burney right now. I also wanted to know, do you guys do this as a full-time job? Cause it must take a hell of a lot of time to produce the amount you have. Thanks for your content and keep your own time ticking.
1:10:06 Speaker 01 Well, good day.
1:10:07 Speaker 00 That wasn't bad.
1:10:09 Speaker 01 Pretty good.
1:10:10 Speaker 00 No, that was terrible.
1:10:11 Speaker 01 I switched it up, you know?
1:10:12 Speaker 00 I know you did. I think the week off might've helped your, uh, your accents a little bit.
1:10:18 Speaker 01 Razor lights.
1:10:22 Speaker 00 You're still not saying it.
1:10:23 Speaker 01 Maybe it's because I was watching the, uh, that Mad Max saga.
1:10:30 Speaker 00 Somebody in there Australian?
1:10:33 Speaker 01 Yeah, there was a lot of Australian actors in it.
1:10:37 Speaker 00 Oh, okay. Are they speaking with accents? Because there's a lot of British actors now, a lot of English actors who don't.
1:10:47 Speaker 01 That's very true.
1:10:49 Speaker 00 They, they use American accents, but hey, we appreciate the, the voicemail very much.
1:10:56 Speaker 01 We do.
1:10:57 Speaker 00 So to answer your last question, and we will look at that suggestion for TCAP, but you know, I do the podcast full time. Gibby still has a full-time job and then kind of fills in when he can. Meaning he comes over to my house once a week to record, eats my food and records. But yeah, we get it done. It is a lot of work. It is no doubt about it.
1:11:25 Speaker 03 Well, hello, Mike and Gibby. Um, this is Sarah from Florida and I am in a very odd position right now as I have just gotten all caught up with true crime all the time. So I had said to myself, once I finally get caught up, I will call and leave you a voicemail. So here I am. And here is your voicemail. Um, I've been a listener for about two years. Um, I started listening when I was looking for a podcast covering the Alex Murdaugh trial. And even though I don't think you guys can cover that, um, I was looking around at different podcasts, I found yours and I just absolutely fell in love. Um, I started out listening to Unsolved
1:12:06 Speaker 03 and just kept on with a regular TCAT. So I definitely have more to say, but I'll keep this first voicemail short. Um, thank you for all you do. And I have to tell you, I am either Team TCAT or Team Gibby. I'm not sure. Um, definitely wouldn't be the same without one or the other of you, but my boyfriend, even though he claims not to be a, a fan of true crime, he has listened enough of me to be Team Bergy. So here we are. Thank you again. I'm sure I'll be calling again in the future and I look forward to the next episode. Happy holidays and happy new year. Bye bye.
1:12:46 Speaker 01 Well, clearly she needs to get a new boyfriend.
1:12:48 Speaker 00 Well, I don't know what his name is, but he's a keeper.
1:12:50 Speaker 01 I don't know about that.
1:12:53 Speaker 00 He's a smart guy. I would lock him down.
1:12:58 Speaker 01 I don't know what the heck he's thinking.
1:13:00 Speaker 00 Oh, that's funny, but we appreciate the voicemail.
1:13:03 Speaker 01 We do, we do.
1:13:04 Speaker 00 All right, buddy, we didn't have any mailbag, so, and I actually haven't checked here lately. So there might be some there that we'll talk about next week, but with the holidays and stuff, you know.
1:13:15 Speaker 01 You're a pretty busy guy.
1:13:16 Speaker 00 I was pretty busy.
1:13:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:13:19 Speaker 00 That's it for another episode of True Crime All The Time. So for Mike.
1:13:23 Speaker 01 And Gibby.
1:13:24 Speaker 00 Stay safe and keep your own time ticking in 2025.
1:13:29 Speaker 01 Man.
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