Pod Insights True Crime All The Time The Idaho College Murders Part 2 About this episode On November 13th, 2022, four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death in their off-campus house at 1122 King Road in Moscow. The victims were 21-year-old Kaylee Goncalves, 21-year-old Madison Mogen, 20-year-old Xana Kernodle, and 20-year-old Ethan Chapin. Two other roommates in the home survived that night.
Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the murders at the University of Idaho. In part two, we’ll cover additional information about the crime that was released in the months after Kohberger’s arrest, his plea deal, and speculation on a potential motive. Even though this case has been solved, there are still some unanswered questions.
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Transcript 10,361 words · 3 speakers
0:39 Speaker 00 Hello everyone and welcome to episode 467 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?
0:49 Speaker 01 Hey, I'm doing good. How about you?
0:51 Speaker 00 I am doing great. We just talked about it on our Patreon weekly previews. We're in the process of setting up a new video studio here and we're going to do more videos, more YouTube and an extra episode that's going to come out sometime during the middle of the week.
1:14 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's gonna be nice.
1:15 Speaker 00 Yeah, people have been asking for more content and we're going to try to give it to them. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Jennifer Field.
1:23 Speaker 01 What's going on Jennifer?
1:25 Speaker 00 Mark.
1:25 Speaker 01 Hey Mark.
1:26 Speaker 00 Alice.
1:27 Speaker 01 Well, Alice.
1:28 Speaker 00 Corey L.
1:29 Speaker 01 What's happening?
1:30 Speaker 00 L. Cindy.
1:31 Speaker 01 Oh, there's Cindy.
1:32 Speaker 00 Rayla Padilla.
1:33 Speaker 01 Ah, Rayla.
1:35 Speaker 00 Manna Torbit.
1:36 Speaker 01 Manna?
1:37 Speaker 00 Mm-hmm.
1:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:38 Speaker 00 Like Manna from Heaven?
1:40 Speaker 01 Don't know that, but okay.
1:41 Speaker 00 DB0789.
1:44 Speaker 01 What's up, DB?
1:46 Speaker 00 Talia Water.
1:47 Speaker 01 Hey, thanks Water.
1:49 Speaker 00 Wardaw.
1:50 Speaker 01 What's up, Wardaw?
1:51 Speaker 00 Valerie Hicks jumped out of their highest level.
1:54 Speaker 01 Thanks Hicks.
1:55 Speaker 00 And last but not least, Vicky Lloyd.
1:57 Speaker 01 There's Vicky.
1:58 Speaker 00 And then if we go back into the vault. This week, we selected Jessica Cruz.
2:04 Speaker 01 Thanks Cruz.
2:05 Speaker 00 Yeah, so we appreciate all the Patreon support that we get. You know, I was speaking about some of these new things that are going to be rolling out early this year. Now would be a good time, if you haven't already, to, you know, subscribe to our YouTube channel.
2:25 Speaker 00 Get on Instagram with us.
2:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:28 Speaker 00 Because that's where a lot of the stuff is, is going to be coming out.
2:32 Speaker 01 Yeah, do that.
2:33 Speaker 00 Facebook, all that stuff.
2:36 Speaker 01 And if you're feeling really, uh, good, join our Patreon.
2:42 Speaker 00 Yeah, absolutely, because everything, uh, every week, you're gonna see, uh, something from the new studio. We have a, an episode out right now on True Crime All the Time Unsolved, where we're talking about Cheryl Warner. Cheryl was murdered after opening her door to someone whom she thought was a stranger in need of assistance. And now 20 years later, the case remains unsolved.
3:08 Speaker 01 Sounds like one of those horror flicks you see, you know, where you go to the door, it's late at night, and you see somebody that's, you know, saying they need help. And what do you do? You decide, let's open the door and help.
3:22 Speaker 00 Well, yeah, in a horror movie, that decision always turns out to be wrong.
3:27 Speaker 01 Exactly.
3:28 Speaker 00 But you and I talked about it on Patreon. You know, what do you do in some of these situations where you want to be a nice person?
3:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:37 Speaker 00 You want to help someone out, but there's an inherent danger in doing so. And I'm sure we'll talk about it more in the Unsolved. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this second and last part on the Idaho murders?
3:52 Speaker 01 I am.
3:53 Speaker 00 In part one, we covered the lives of the victims and how the early stages of the investigation unfolded. In part two, we'll cover additional information about the crime that was released in the months after Kohberger's arrest, his plea deal, and speculation on a potential motive. You know, another thing we talked about on Patreon is, Just this week, people were sending us links about things that are just coming out.
4:21 Speaker 01 Yeah.
4:22 Speaker 00 One of them was an article about Coburger's sister.
4:27 Speaker 01 Exactly.
4:28 Speaker 00 Who apparently told him, hey, when you're going out, you need to be careful. There is a lunatic, a serial killer on the loose. The whole time she had no idea she was talking to the killer.
4:42 Speaker 01 Exactly.
4:43 Speaker 00 Who happened to be her brother.
4:44 Speaker 01 How scary to learn that.
4:46 Speaker 00 Court documents were released in January 2023, showing that the suspect's phone was near the victim's house at least 12 times before the murders, going all the way back to August 2022. All of those times, except one, were late at night or early in the morning. The morning after the murders, Coburger's phone was near the house between 9:12 a.m. and 9:21 a.m., according to his cell phone data. Coburger's phone was tracked heading to Moscow before the attack. And at the time, the driver of the Elantra returned to Pullman.
5:27 Speaker 00 The phone was off from 2:47 to 4:48 a.m., which is consistent with Coburger attempting to conceal his location during the quadruple homicide. And, you know, this is a case that's not that old, although I did say it's hard to believe that it's been as many years as it has since this occurred. And let's not forget, right? He was a criminology major, or, you know, he had studied and even obtained some degrees in criminology. You gotta know that the cell phone data is important.
6:07 Speaker 01 It's gonna be one of the first things they look at.
6:10 Speaker 00 If they can figure out a suspect.
6:13 Speaker 01 Exactly.
6:14 Speaker 00 And maybe he just thought, well, they're never gonna figure out it's me because I don't really have a connection and we'll get into some of that. But, you know, when they find a situation like this, where the person's phone was turned off. During the time that the murder occurred, it's a big red flag.
6:38 Speaker 01 How else can you look at that, right?
6:39 Speaker 00 Well, yeah, because first of all, how many of us turn our phone off? Probably not many, because you know, how are you going to play your little
6:49 Speaker 00 bedazzled games or whatever, you know, I don't know what my wife's playing on her iPhone, but how are you going to play those games when your phone's off? And there's really no reason to turn it off unless you're trying to save the battery or, you know, even if you're taking a nap, you can just put it on silent.
7:06 Speaker 01 I say my phone only really goes off anymore when it runs out of a battery. When the battery dies out, my phone, that's the only time it goes down.
7:14 Speaker 00 Yeah, you are supposed to charge them on a consistent basis.
7:17 Speaker 01 Yeah, I know Apple and Samsung and other makers prefer you not do that. That way you go through the phone quicker and have to get a new one.
7:25 Speaker 00 At his arraignment on May 22nd, 2023, Kohberger chose to stand silent. And the judge entered a not guilty plea on his behalf. So kind of interesting, right? Normally you see, how do you plead? The person says not guilty, guilty, whatever. He just didn't say anything. So the judge had to enter a not guilty plea for him.
7:52 Speaker 01 Sometimes I think there's a sense of courtroom drama, you know?
7:59 Speaker 00 On the part of the perpetrator?
8:00 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:01 Speaker 00 Yeah, and maybe it's the, I'm, I'm taking control. I want to be at the center of attention. A lot of times I think, you know, these people have lost all control. At this point, sure, once they're locked up, you know, they have very little control. They're told when to eat. They're told when to. Go here, go there. And so maybe they feel the need to act out and exercise whatever control they can. Sometimes that's in the courtroom. A court filing on August 2nd revealed Kohberger's alibi. He claimed he was out driving alone that night. His lawyer argued
8:43 Speaker 00 that the defense couldn't be more specific about what witnesses would say to back up that claim at the time. But that would emerge amid examination of the discovery materials and at trial.
8:57 Speaker 01 Is that like saying, we have an alibi. We're really not done putting, putting it together and trying to figure out what kind of stuff we can make up. So we're going to say this for now and then, you know, come back later.
9:11 Speaker 00 I think you could look at it like that. You could also look at it as they don't want to lay all their cards out on the table right ahead of time. Kohberger's attorney, Ann Taylor, wrote, Mr. Kohberger has long had a habit of going for drives alone. Often, he would go for drives at night. He did so late on November 12th and into November 13th, 2022. Mr. Kohberger is not claiming to be at a specific location at a specific time. At this point, there's not a specific witness to say precisely where Mr. Kohberger was at
9:53 Speaker 00 each moment of the hours between late November 12th and early November 13th, 2022. He was out driving during the late night and early morning hours of November 12th through the 13th of 2022. And, you know, when you talk about an alibi, yeah, sometimes people have pretty ironclad alibis.
10:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
10:19 Speaker 00 You know, they were a thousand miles away and they're, they were with 50 people and all of those people can vouch for them. Okay.
10:26 Speaker 01 Pretty solid.
10:26 Speaker 00 Pretty solid. But, and I think you and I have talked about this before. If you're just at home by yourself, that's not really a great alibi because who can corroborate
10:39 Speaker 00 And I think it kind of goes along with this. If you're just out driving, who can help corroborate your alibi?
10:47 Speaker 01 And for somebody like me, you know, I'm alone a lot. So that's a problem for me. If something ever would happen and someone would try to accuse me, I would have a hard time getting somebody to validate my alibi.
11:03 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, you would.
11:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
11:06 Speaker 00 And when you say happen, you mean happen again.
11:09 Speaker 01 Well, yeah.
11:11 Speaker 00 The prosecution had asked whether the defense would claim Coburger had an alibi and the specific location where he claimed to be. This is because Idaho requires the defense to present the prosecution with notice of an intent to run an alibi defense. The victim's home at 1122 King Row was demolished on December 28, 2023, after the property owner donated the home to the university.
11:43 Speaker 01 Yeah, I don't know what you're gonna do with it.
11:46 Speaker 00 After that?
11:47 Speaker 01 Yeah.
11:47 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, it's probably gonna be tough. You're, are you gonna be able to get four, six, eight kids to rent that out for the semester? Probably not, but you know, it's also, I think, a good thing that this person did because then it could be demolished, which to me is important, I think, to a lot of people. What you really don't want is this symbol of where something happened to stand.
12:24 Speaker 01 Right.
12:25 Speaker 00 You know, one of the ones that jumps out at me is the apartment complex where Dahmer lived. There was such a push to demolish this place where, let's face it, a lot of young men lost their lives.
12:39 Speaker 01 Sure.
12:41 Speaker 00 Not to mention the fact that he kept parts of those young men in his freezer, his fridge, barrels that were inside the apartment. It's hard to forget that stuff, but even harder, I think, if the place where it happened is still there.
12:58 Speaker 01 Oh, I agree. I remember when they finally tore down the house, when they finally tore down the house Casey operated out of.
13:05 Speaker 00 Oh, yeah, that's a big one.
13:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:07 Speaker 00 The Gonzalez family was against demolishing the house, arguing it would destroy one of the most critical pieces of evidence in the case before a trial date had been set. And I actually get that. Normally, you know, the demolishing of the place where it happened kind of occurs down the road after everything is said and done.
13:33 Speaker 01 Right. You feel good about the case. Things are wrapped up. Okay.
13:37 Speaker 00 Sentence is passed, all of that. So, yeah, now that is a little strange. University President Scott Green said, while we appreciated the emotional connection some family members of the victims may have to this house, it is time for its removal and to allow the collective healing of our community to continue. So I see both sides of it. Now, as far as it, you know, being critical to the trial, I mean, they've gone through it with a fine tooth comb. They've gotten everything out of there. I assume that they possibly could.
14:15 Speaker 01 Right.
14:16 Speaker 00 On September 12th, 2024, a judge ruled that the trial would be moved to Boise, siding with the defense that Latah County was tainted by pre-trial publicity. And, you know, to be honest, this was a case that was covered extensively.
14:35 Speaker 01 It really was. So I get that. I understand why they wanted to do that.
14:38 Speaker 00 In October, the trial was pushed back from June to August 2025. Defense attorneys sought to toss out the death penalty and get DNA evidence excluded, but they lost both motions. And those are two pretty big motions to lose, right? The death penalty and the DNA evidence. The DNA evidence probably being one of the, the biggest things that.
15:07 Speaker 00 Could get your client convicted.
15:09 Speaker 01 So it's a big win for the prosecution.
15:11 Speaker 00 Yeah, absolutely. In March 2025, prosecutors sought to have a now infamous selfie taken by Kohberger, shown at trial because it could help a jury determine whether he has bushy eyebrows, as described by one of the surviving roommates. And it was said that, you know, this selfie was taken just hours after the murder. The defense argued that evidence referring to bushy eyebrows would be unfairly prejudicial. I don't know that I've ever heard so much fighting back and forth in court regarding bushy eyebrows.
15:50 Speaker 01 It's one of the things that was brought up.
15:52 Speaker 00 One of many, right? There are a lot of things brought up in trial. It's like a chess game, chess match. Each side kind of positioning and then attacking, countering, kind of likening it to a chess match. The defense also questioned Dylan Mortensen's recollection of events and inconsistencies in her statements, noting several weeks after the murders, DM thought that the person she saw was a fireman. In her mind, DM thought that the intruder went out of the back sliding door, but she doesn't know if he actually went out the back door.
16:32 Speaker 00 Now, the defense is going to have to question slash try to poke holes, right? In the survivors' account or accounts of what happened, it's a sad fact, but it's true.
16:48 Speaker 01 I mean, they're going to try to discredit her every which way they can.
16:52 Speaker 00 Which a lot of times comes off as, you know, really mean, but you know, they are trying to do their job. Some of them can go overboard. Investigators obtained a search warrant that allowed law enforcement to seize Kohberger's customer click activity pertaining to knives and accessories from Amazon. Prosecutors argued that Kohberger's Amazon activity showed he purchased a K-Bar knife eight months prior to the murders. The knife sheath left at the crime scene had K bar, USMC and the Marine Corps Eagle Globe, an anchor insignia stamped on the outside of it. And the knife sheath is a big part of this
17:35 Speaker 00 case, right? We said it. They found DNA on this thing.
17:40 Speaker 01 I mean, I love the knife. You know that.
17:42 Speaker 00 Yeah.
17:42 Speaker 01 I have multiple versions of that.
17:45 Speaker 00 K bars, right? You bought me one for Christmas a few years ago. It's a great knife.
17:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
17:52 Speaker 00 I wish someone would get a search warrant for my wife's Amazon activity. Because I think it's bordering on criminal.
18:02 Speaker 01 Uh, I think um, she has a problem.
18:06 Speaker 00 I don't know what the exact um, charge would be, but I'd like to see something done.
18:13 Speaker 01 I mean, the fact that they have a Amazon driver and a UPS driver solely for your house alone.
18:20 Speaker 00 It's over the top.
18:21 Speaker 01 It is, it is.
18:24 Speaker 00 In a court filing, prosecutor Bill Thompson wrote that a defense expert's disclosure revealed the defense wouldn't challenge that the DNA on the sheath belonged to Kohberger. The defense plans to argue the DNA on the knife sheath does not prove the defendant was ever at the crime scene. And the knife sheath itself could have been planted by the real perpetrator. Okay, you're gonna have to try to do something, right? As the defense. This knife sheath is a real damaging piece of evidence for your client.
19:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, it is. So you have to find a way to try to discredit it, but I don't know if uh, the way they're going about it's gonna work.
19:08 Speaker 00 In April 2025, his lawyers revealed that he had recently been diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder. And we mentioned it, right? Kohberger was facing the death penalty, but his lawyers argued he should not be put to death because he's on the autism spectrum and he has OCD and his reactions at trial may be misinterpreted. His flat affect was attributed to autism spectrum disorder. And I think that is something that can happen.
19:40 Speaker 01 Sure can.
19:41 Speaker 00 It can also be something that psychopaths, I think, or sociopaths exhibit.
19:47 Speaker 00 A flat affect because they just really have no emotions, some of them.
19:53 Speaker 01 But at the end of the day, if you're found guilty of doing what has happened, this or not this, you deserve the death penalty in this state.
20:02 Speaker 00 Well, I think the prosecutors agreed with you. They responded that Kohberger was diagnosed with the least severe form of autism that comes without accompanying intellectual or language impairment, and that he failed to show his diagnosis would in any way make him less culpable for murder.
20:23 Speaker 01 He wasn't a dumb individual.
20:26 Speaker 00 Yeah, from what I've seen of him, I would not consider him to be low functioning.
20:31 Speaker 01 Right.
20:32 Speaker 00 I mean, let's face it, this is a guy who got an associate's and then a bachelor's and then a master's, I think he was going for his PhD. So, I mean, he was pretty intelligent. Now, that being said, some individuals with autism can be very intelligent, but then, you know, have problems in other areas of their life. In May 2025, the public learned that Kohberger's browsing history showed dozens of pictures of female students at Washington State and the University of Idaho. Some of them were close friends with or followers of the murdered students.
21:18 Speaker 00 According to NBC, Kohberger was invited to a pool party in Moscow on July 9, which was verified by three witnesses. His phone data showed he was in Moscow that same day after dark. Over the next month, he took multiple trips to Moscow and his phone connected with a cell tower, providing coverage to within 100 meters of the victim's house.
21:45 Speaker 01 Fairly close.
21:46 Speaker 00 It is, and, you know, it does make it seem you have these pictures of people who are friends with the victims. Now it seems as though on a number of occasions.
22:03 Speaker 00 He was near the victim's home. Well, what was he doing? Was he casing?
22:08 Speaker 01 Most likely.
22:10 Speaker 00 I, I think if you're the prosecution, you would try to make that argument. In late September, 2022, Kohberger made the following search. Sociopathic traits in college student. In October, he searched for pornography containing the keywords drugged and sleeping.
22:31 Speaker 01 Clearly must have been something he fantasized about.
22:34 Speaker 00 Yeah, I, I would say that's a hundred percent accurate. On October 14th, Kohberger was pulled over for a traffic violation. It was the second time he'd been stopped in seven weeks. Five days later, he searched, can psychopaths behave prosocially? So, I mean, you know, some of these searches, obviously you have the pornography searches, but some of the other ones seem to point to the fact that he thought that he was a sociopath, a psychopath, or that he knew he was.
23:12 Speaker 01 And he wanted some answers?
23:13 Speaker 00 Yeah, maybe. Six days before the murders, Kohberger's phone connected with the same cell tower close to the victim's home. In total, Gibbs, he visited 23 times over a four month period.
23:29 Speaker 01 It seems like stalking.
23:31 Speaker 00 I don't know what else you would call it. Stalking, casing. Now, could it be that he's just in that area looking for victims? Or is it specific to this house? And each and every time he's trying to gain more information.
23:52 Speaker 01 Well, he knows that.
23:53 Speaker 00 Yeah, I, I don't know that for sure. But 23 times over a four month period. That's a lot when you go to a different school.
24:05 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, it's six times a month.
24:08 Speaker 00 I like the math you're doing there.
24:10 Speaker 01 Some people struggle with that.
24:12 Speaker 00 After the murders, Kohberger's phone connected with a cell tower south of Moscow at 4:48 a.m. Ninety minutes later, a call was made in the Pullman area to a phone registered to an account belonging to Kohberger's father. At least three calls were made to that same number that morning. After briefly traveling to Moscow just after 9 a.m., Kohberger returned to his apartment in Pullman and took a selfie at 10:31 a.m. with a thumbs up pose in the bathroom mirror. Okay, you know, people take selfies. I am not one of those people.
24:50 Speaker 01 You are not.
24:51 Speaker 00 I don't know why you would take a selfie of yourself with a thumbs up pose in the mirror.
24:59 Speaker 01 Maybe he felt good about what he just did and being a psychopath, thought it would be cool to do a little thumbs up selfie.
25:08 Speaker 00 Maybe, maybe. I can't make sense of some of this stuff. After the murders, Kohberger searched University of Idaho murders. He also searched for a program about Ted Bundy and watched a YouTube video about the Idaho victims. So, I mean, that or those things in and of themselves don't make you guilty. But I think when you're adding it all together, the timing of his phone being turned off, all the times that he traveled within, you know, a very small radius of the house where these people were murdered, and then he's making some of
25:52 Speaker 00 these searches. On June 30th, 2025, just weeks before his scheduled trial, Brian Kohberger agreed to plead guilty to all charges, four counts of first degree murder and one count of burglary. He would be spared from the death penalty and sentenced to four consecutive life sentences for murder and 10 years for burglary. He agreed to waive his right to an appeal. Prosecutors met with the families three days before the plea was signed and called it a sincere attempt to seek justice for the families. What do you make of the plea deal? Gibbs?
26:33 Speaker 01 Well, I do think it spares the family from going through.
26:37 Speaker 00 A full-blown trial?
26:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, and reliving the horrific night.
26:42 Speaker 00 Yeah.
26:43 Speaker 01 As long as they're okay with that.
26:45 Speaker 00 Well, I think that's the big question. You know, are they going to be okay with him spending the rest of his life in prison? Probably, you know, never getting out. He's going to die in prison. Or do they think that's too good for him? We want him to get the death penalty.
27:06 Speaker 01 You know, I'd be torn on that because I would think in one way, him having to live every day in a restrictive prison is going to be harder on him instead of giving him the easy out.
27:19 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, people have very differing opinions on that. Kaylee Goncalves's parents accused prosecutors of rushing. They contacted prosecutors the day after the plea was signed, asking for the terms to be amended to include additional requirements, such as a full confession and the location of the murder weapon. Prosecutors turned down the request, explaining that an offer already accepted by the defendant could not ethically be changed.
27:51 Speaker 01 I understand why they would want that, right? I mean, go ahead and have him tell us that he did it, why he did it, and why we're at it. Let's get the actual murder weapon. That way, we can seal this whole thing up nice and pretty before we allow him to get this sweet deal for himself.
28:11 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, if you're taking the death penalty off the table, and that's what the perpetrator wants, you would think, at the very least...
28:21 Speaker 00 You would require that person to give a full confession. And then also the location of the murder weapon. I don't think that's too much to ask as part of the plea deal. The Gonzales family said in a statement published by ABC. They vaguely mentioned a possible plea on Friday without seeking our input and presented the plea on Sunday. The county should be ashamed of its prosecutor's office. Four wonderful young people lost their lives, yet the victims' families were treated as opponents from the outset. We weren't even called about the plea. We received an email with a letter attached.
29:03 Speaker 00 That's how Latah County's prosecutor's office treats murder victims' families. Adding insulted injury, they're rushing the plea, giving families just one day to coordinate and appear at the courthouse for a plea on July 2. After more than two years, this is how it concludes with a secretive deal and a hurried effort to close the case without any input from the victims' families on the pleas details. Our family is frustrated right now and that will subside and we'll come together as always and deal with the reality that we face moving forward.
29:43 Speaker 01 Yeah, I understand. They are frustrated, rightfully so. I think it's wrong to send an email. It's so impersonal. I mean, you're the prosecutor's office. Up until this point, I'm sure you've been, you know, contacting them by phone, having conversations with them. What's the rush? Why can't you go ahead and have that conversation with them on a Monday? Or have them all come in and say, this is what we're thinking. How do you feel about it? This is what we're going to do. But instead, just to move forward with it? I feel like it's, it's the wrong way to go. And I know we've joked about in the past that, that movie, um, where, uh, that Scottish actor's in it.
30:30 Speaker 01 I forget his name.
30:31 Speaker 00 Oh, you mean that one Scottish actor?
30:33 Speaker 01 That one Scottish actor. Um, Gerard.
30:37 Speaker 00 Gerard Butler?
30:38 Speaker 01 Yes.
30:38 Speaker 00 Okay.
30:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, where he plays the dad that's upset.
30:43 Speaker 00 Oh, law abiding citizen. Okay, we'll get to it eventually.
30:46 Speaker 01 We always do. Um, but I can, you know, it kind of reminds me a little bit like that. Like, you know, you didn't give us the opportunity to voice how we would like to see this go down.
30:58 Speaker 00 Well, my thought is, and I don't know if I'm correct or not, but there's a reason why they just got an email. They didn't get a call because it sounds like they were just trying to push this thing through.
31:10 Speaker 01 Sure they were.
31:11 Speaker 00 And a call would have muddied the waters with opinions that they probably didn't want to hear. But I'm with you. I, I, I think this Bush Lee, right? To not reach out to the families and say, hey, here's what we're thinking about doing. What are your thoughts? Now, at the end of the day, they don't have to do what the family wants.
31:34 Speaker 01 Right.
31:35 Speaker 00 But to not even give them the courtesy of a call or even a even better, an in-person meeting.
31:43 Speaker 01 Yeah.
31:44 Speaker 00 And to me, that's kind of chicken shit. I'll be honest.
31:47 Speaker 01 You owe the family that.
31:48 Speaker 00 Yes, I agree.
31:49 Speaker 01 Not and not just Rush, just because you want to get this case out of the media and get life back to normal in your, in your county.
31:58 Speaker 00 On July 2nd, 2025, Brian Kohberger admitted to the murders at his change of plea hearing, marking the first time that he spoke during court proceedings since his arrest. Judge Stephen Hippler asked if he killed and murdered each of the victims. Kohberger responded, yes, each time. He was also forced to say that he was guilty for each count of murder. After the plea, the prosecution presented an outline of evidence that would have been used at trial and revealed that they still did not know if Kohberger intended to kill all four students when he entered the home. Kohberger entered the home through a sliding glass door to the kitchen
32:41 Speaker 00 at the back. He went to the third floor and killed Madison and Kaylee, leaving behind the knife sheath. As he was coming down the stairs or leaving, he encountered Xana and killed her. Then Ethan, who was asleep in her bedroom. As he sped away from the area, he almost lost control of his car. According to CNN, prosecutor Bill Thompson said, "We will not represent that he intended to commit all of the murders that he did that night, but we know that that is what resulted in that he then killed intentionally, willfully, deliberately with premeditation and with malice aforethought.
33:23 Speaker 00 Madison Mogen, Kaylee Gonzalez, Ethan Chapin, and Xana Kernodle." And my thought is, Gibbs, unless he comes out and says, "Yes, I intended to kill these four people." There's no way for the authorities to know.
33:40 Speaker 01 No.
33:41 Speaker 00 The only thing they do know is that he did it.
33:44 Speaker 01 Yeah, all we know is he went there that night and what happened, happened.
33:47 Speaker 00 And, and I think that's one of the things that people are still trying to figure out and grapple with. You know, was there one person? Was there two individuals that were the targets? But, you know, other people were killed because he encountered them or he thought he needed to leave no witnesses behind.
34:13 Speaker 00 The families delivered victim impact statements at the July 23 sentencing hearing. Jeff Kernodle revealed at sentencing that he almost went to the house that night, but he had been drinking and Xana told him not to drink and drive. He told Coburger, "You would have had to deal with me." And I feel like this statement by Jeff is something you or I or most dads would say.
34:40 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
34:41 Speaker 00 You know, that is, if they weren't trying to jump over the railing to get to Brian Coburger. Kaylee's mother, Kristy Gonzalez, told Coburger, "Hell will be waiting. You are nothing. May you continue to live your life in misery. You are officially the property of the state of Idaho, where your fellow inmates are anxiously awaiting your arrival."
35:04 Speaker 01 Oh, boy, and were they ever. I think a few of them already made him their, uh, personal puppet.
35:10 Speaker 00 Well, that's a disturbing picture, but I like what she says because she basically is coming out and saying that really bad things are going to happen to him in prison without coming out and saying it.
35:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:27 Speaker 00 They're anxiously awaiting your arrival, but we can all read between the lines and what she's saying is you're in deep trouble.
35:36 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think it's her way of saying, and I don't cuss often on here, but I think it's her way of saying fuck you.
35:41 Speaker 00 Yeah, you don't drop the F-bomb a lot, but I think it's kind of warranted here. I mean, what this guy did was so incredibly heinous, right? There's no way around that.
35:54 Speaker 01 No.
35:55 Speaker 00 Dylan Mortensen described the debilitating panic attack she suffers, saying, "Sometimes I drop to the floor with my heart racing, convinced something is very wrong. It's my body reliving everything over and over again. Kohberger took away my ability to trust the world around me and shattered me in places I didn't even know could break. I was barely 19 when he did this. I should have been figuring out who I was. I should have been figuring out the college experience. Instead, I was forced to learn how to survive the unimaginable. I couldn't be left alone.
36:35 Speaker 00 I had to sleep in my mom's room because I was too terrified to close my eyes." She called Kohberger a hollow vessel, something less than human, a body without empathy, without remorse. She said, "He tried to take everything from me, my friends, my safety, my identity, my future. He took their lives, but I will continue trying to be like them, to make them proud. Living is how I honor them."
37:06 Speaker 01 That's really tough to hear.
37:08 Speaker 00 Yeah, it's also very emotional.
37:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:12 Speaker 00 Because you really get a sense of not only what this young woman went through that night, but What she's going through now and will go through most likely gives for the rest of her life.
37:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, unfortunately, but it sounds like she has the right thought, you know, she's going to try to live her life the best she can and move forward.
37:36 Speaker 00 And in doing so, you know, will honor her friends. Bethany Funk's friend Emily Alant read a statement on her behalf. Bethany described the guilt she feels over not calling 911 right away. She said, I was so frantic that morning and scared to death, not knowing what had happened. And when I made the 911 call, I couldn't even get out the words. The crime left her terrified and fearful that someone will try to hurt her and her family.
38:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, I remember talking about the 911 call, you know, and the delay behind that. And unless you're in her shoes, we don't know what we would do in that same scenario. Would we wait a little bit? Would we jump right away and make the 911 call? I don't know what I would do.
38:23 Speaker 00 No, I don't think anybody does unless you're in that exact situation with those exact people in the house and in those relationships. Cause there's different dynamics in every relationship, friend group. There's just so many variables that go into it, but I can also understand how there would be a lot of guilt there.
38:48 Speaker 01 Yeah, and it would weigh on you 100%.
38:51 Speaker 00 Oh, absolutely. Kaylee's sister Olivia Guns Alves memorized her speech so that she could look Coburger in the eyes when she delivered it. She later told ABC, I was fueled by seeing the rage on his face. Man, was he mad. That was obviously a big point of why I did what I did to make him feel small.
39:14 Speaker 01 Love it.
39:15 Speaker 00 Olivia said in court, my sister Kaylee and her best friend, Matty were not yours to take. They were not yours to study, to stalk or to silence. They're everything you could never be loved, accepted, vibrant, accomplished, brave and powerful. She concluded by saying that if Coburger hadn't attacked the students in their sleep, Kaylee would have kicked your fucking ass. You said, love it. I would have to echo that sentiment. I mean, first of all, you only get one shot at this.
39:51 Speaker 01 Right.
39:52 Speaker 00 You know, delivering this victim impact statement. It sounds like Olivia spent a lot of time, and I'm sure a lot of victims' families do.
40:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:04 Speaker 00 But she spent a lot of time crafting this very carefully, also memorizing it so that she wouldn't have to break Brian Kohberger's gaze, almost as if, you know, I'm staring you down, I'm staring through your soul.
40:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:24 Speaker 00 As I tell you what I really think of you. What I thought was powerful was that, was when she said, "They were everything you could never be: loved, accepted, vibrant, accomplished, brave, and powerful."
40:43 Speaker 01 Do you think that these statements are somewhat therapeutic?
40:47 Speaker 00 Well, I think they're very therapeutic for the victims' families.
40:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:51 Speaker 00 Unfortunately, my honest thought is that I think for most of the perpetrators, this stuff kind of goes in one ear and out the other. You know, I think they probably try to shut it out. And if they are truly sociopaths or psychopaths, it probably doesn't bother them. They're not losing any sleep at night.
41:16 Speaker 01 Maybe they should play it 24 hours a day in their cell. Nonstop, so they have to hear it again and again and again for the rest of their time they're in prison.
41:26 Speaker 00 Either that or the Rex West album that you put out, because that is excruciating pain. It might be deemed cruel and unusual punishment, to be honest with you.
41:43 Speaker 01 I have heard that some interrogation units have used it for other purposes than instead of just listening to it for enjoyment.
41:51 Speaker 00 To try to make people crack?
41:53 Speaker 01 Especially the, uh, I'm a little bit country, I'm a little bit rock and roll, uh, duet that I do between me and Rex, you know, Gibby and Rex going back and forth.
42:04 Speaker 00 You playing both parts?
42:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
42:06 Speaker 00 But you know, getting back to these victim impact statements, I, I do think, you know, these, these young people who lost their lives, they were amazing people, right? We talked about it. They had a lot of friends. They had a lot of loved ones.
42:21 Speaker 01 Yeah.
42:22 Speaker 00 Who did Brian Kohberger have?
42:24 Speaker 01 Nobody.
42:25 Speaker 00 And Olivia, she is really giving it to him to tell him just how insignificant she thinks he really is. Now, he may not care about that one bit and probably doesn't, but kudos to her because I do think it's very important for these family members of the victims to be able to say what they want to say. Xana's aunt, Kim Kornodle, told Kohberger she forgave him because I could no longer live with the hate. She added, anytime you want to talk and tell me what happened, I'm here. No judgment. Kohberger said, I respectfully
43:07 Speaker 00 decline. When asked if he wanted to make a statement, and I don't know what statement he's going to make, he could turn around, he could say he was sorry to the family members of the victims, but I think it would be a lie. And I think they know it would be a lie and it wouldn't mean anything to them. Additional documents were released within hours of sentencing, revealing that in the weeks before the murders, Kaylee Gonzalez thought she was being stalked. She told a roommate, she saw a man she didn't know, staring at her when she took her dog outside. Kaylee mentioned having a stalker to a friend. On September 11th, she said something about receiving something in the mail and getting a strange message on Facebook.
43:54 Speaker 00 On November 4th, the residents of the house came home at 11 a.m. to find the door open and loose on its hinges. Kaylee was away at the time and Xana's father fixed the door for them. Now, it's still unclear whether these events were connected to the murders in any way, but-
44:14 Speaker 01 Kind of hard not to think they are.
44:16 Speaker 00 Yeah. You know, is it one of those cases where at the time, you don't make a ton of stuff out of it, but obviously knowing what you know later on, things seem a little more sinister. Now, Kaylee mentioned that she thought she had a stalker before this even happened.
44:35 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:36 Speaker 00 So that definitely could have had something or some connection to the murders.
44:44 Speaker 01 You know, I really didn't have a good understanding of stalking until that case that happened with the actress Rebecca-
44:55 Speaker 00 Schaefer?
44:55 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:56 Speaker 00 Yeah. And we did that very early on.
44:58 Speaker 01 We did.
44:58 Speaker 00 In the podcast, and I'll tell you, there have been a lot of stalking cases with celebrities, right? Celebrities are more likely to get stalked than regular people, I think. Well, I don't know if they are or not, but a lot of people get attached to celebrities because they think they know them from seeing them on TV or in movies. And, but that was a very scary case.
45:22 Speaker 01 It really was.
45:23 Speaker 00 And she was such a young, beautiful, up and coming actress that it was just horrible.
45:34 Speaker 01 And so I'm not really surprised that we see more stalking cases with the amount of social media out there. I think people, stalkers, find these individuals on social media and feel like they know them more than they really do.
45:55 Speaker 00 Well, and that's a great point, right? Back when Rebecca Schaefer was killed, there was no Facebook.
46:03 Speaker 01 No.
46:04 Speaker 00 So who was putting themselves out there the most? People on television, people in movies, you would see them in magazines. But now you're seeing everybody's lives.
46:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
46:17 Speaker 00 On social media, except for mine, because I don't get on social media.
46:21 Speaker 01 That is true.
46:22 Speaker 00 But I think you're, you're really hitting on something that's important. Now, I'm not sitting here and saying, get off of Facebook. Don't do Facebook. Facebook is the devil. But there are some inherent dangers to putting a lot of your information out there.
46:42 Speaker 01 Well, yeah, we've have seen cases come over where Instagram influencers have been murdered because somebody thought they were closer to that person than they actually were.
46:54 Speaker 00 And then maybe they tried to reach out to them. They got rejected. Yeah, there's a lot of things that can happen. After the sentencing, Idaho State Police Lieutenant Darren Gilbertson and Prosecutor Bill Thompson spoke to ABC. Lieutenant Gilbertson said about the motive, he's the only one that has the why. And oftentimes that why, it may only make sense to him. Prosecutor Thompson noted, there was evidence that Kohberger had been deleting things from his devices, trying to sanitize his devices. So we don't know if there was something there he got rid of. And, and this goes back for me to the plea deal. Why not make that a part of it?
47:39 Speaker 00 The motive and the full confession. Why did you do this? Why did you target these individuals?
47:48 Speaker 01 Yeah, I feel like the plea deal was handled wrong.
47:50 Speaker 00 Yeah, I, I do too. Now Thompson believes either Kaylee or Matty were the target saying, I personally feel that for whatever reason, he targeted one of the young women on the third floor. The fact that he found them together, whether that was planned, we'll never know. It's more likely that he didn't expect to encounter Xana and the others up and out. And it was, as we, you know, mentioned in the first episode, you know, very early in the morning, three, four o'clock in the morning.
48:25 Speaker 01 Well, I mean, that's when most people are at their deepest sleep typically.
48:30 Speaker 00 Yeah, unless you're me or somebody who's been out partying in college.
48:35 Speaker 01 Yeah.
48:36 Speaker 00 Gilbertson provided his theory on Kohberger's final trip to Moscow hours after the murders. He said, "My hunch is that it was curiosity. I think he had to be wondering, why is nothing happening? Why is there no news? Why is there nothing? Why are the police not there? Why am I not hearing anything about this?" I think this goes back to, you know, 911 call being made.
49:04 Speaker 01 Right.
49:05 Speaker 00 And then the survivors don't alert the police until later on the next, in the morning.
49:12 Speaker 01 And his ego wants fed. Why am I not, why am I not hearing something about this?
49:18 Speaker 00 Thompson added that he was empathetic towards the Gonzalez family who wanted a trial, saying, "I respect and recognize that not everybody agrees with the decision we made. We considered what all the families had to say before we decided to make the resolution that we did. They were heard. We had something that a trial would have never given us, or the community, or families. We had his sworn acknowledgement that the charges are true. That would have never occurred after a trial. If he would have been found guilty, we would have been engaged in literally decades of appeals with him maintaining his innocence. We have the closure of avoiding those appeals. We have certainty."
50:03 Speaker 01 Well, there's something to be said about that too, but again, I think there probably was a better way to go about it.
50:10 Speaker 00 Now, what I'm hearing from him, which is different than I think what I originally thought, was that they did hear from the families, but maybe all the families didn't agree.
50:22 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's gonna happen.
50:23 Speaker 00 And that's gonna happen. It could have been that the Gonzalez family wanted something, the other families wanted something else, and, you know, the prosecutors made the decision that they made.
50:37 Speaker 00 When asked why prosecutors didn't push for a full confession or the location of the murder weapon, Thompson said, there was no legal way we could have compelled those. And quite frankly, there's nothing that he could have said that I think would have been credible or believable. He's manipulative. Yeah, but why not ask? And maybe they did, and maybe he said, I'm not going to tell you. That I don't know. Prosecutor Thompson said, there was no evidence there was any sexual component or sexual assault on any of the victims. I want to make that clear. So there's no speculation. However, Steve Gonzalez shared during an appearance on News Nation's Banfield that
51:22 Speaker 00 he strongly disagrees with the prosecutor's remarks based on information he got from individuals involved in the investigation. According to Steve, people got so angry at what was happening in that courtroom that they would literally pick up their phone and call us and say, this is what's on Brian's phone. This is what he was searching. This was sexually motivated. I don't care what Thompson said. So, you know, from my way of thinking, there is a difference between a sexual component and a sexual assault. You
52:02 Speaker 00 know, we have learned Gibbs over the years that killers can derive some sort of sick sexual gratification merely from the killing. Yes. So that would be, in my way of thinking, a sexual component to the crime. Right. Without what we would traditionally think of as a sexual assault occurring. And maybe that's what, you know, Steve Gonzalez is talking about.
52:38 Speaker 00 Since the gag order has been removed, Steve alleged that someone informed him of Kohberger's weird, weird porn fetishes, which allegedly included drunk, passed out girls and gagging girls. Steve said, "Those are two things that were part of that crime scene." So for Thompson to say that there was no sexual assault, of course, there wasn't evidence of sexual assault. He didn't have enough time. Somebody came up there. Again, maybe sexual assault was not his ultimate goal. Maybe he derived sexual gratification from the killing alone.
53:20 Speaker 01 Yeah, maybe. Or maybe sexual assault was his plan, but got interrupted and wasn't able to get to that.
53:27 Speaker 00 Heard people walking around, something like that. CNN did an interview with Idaho State Police Lieutenant Darren Gilbertson and Moscow Police Chief Anthony Dollinger that shed more light on the investigation. Gilbertson said, "Everything lined up for them." Once they started looking into Kohberger as a suspect. By the time the FBI linked his DNA to the knife sheath, it had been several weeks and they had thousands of tips. Although cell tower evidence put Kohberger in the area of the home for months, leading up to the murders, there was no connection between him and the victims and no evidence he knew them. Investigators learned that after the murders,
54:12 Speaker 00 Kohberger fixated on news coverage and began paying items in cash. He often wore gloves and avoided the area of the murders. He stopped using his debit and credit cards. He also started erasing data from his devices, but kept several screenshots and pictures of news coverage of the killings. There was no evidence on his devices that he had known the victims debunking reports that Coburger had photos and the social media accounts of some of the victims on his phone. Gilbertson told CNN, "To this day, we have never found a single connection, anything,
54:51 Speaker 00 between any of the four victims or the other two surviving roommates with him. No pictures, no texts."
55:00 Speaker 01 It doesn't mean that he didn't go on to social media and look them up and, you know.
55:06 Speaker 00 Yeah, maybe he didn't do it on his phone. Maybe he did it at the library. I don't know. Gilbertson said Coburger was very consumed with criminology and the psychology of murder. He confirmed that investigators received hundreds of tips about Kaylee Gonzalez possibly having a stalker. He said, "Somebody had followed her, and I know Kaylee absolutely felt that it was real. We investigated that heavily. We tracked down every bit of it. Fortunately, it was not what we would term or think of as stalking." According to Gilbertson, it ended up being an instance where somebody saw a very pretty girl and was hoping to
55:49 Speaker 00 maybe be able to talk to her or maybe be able to get a date or something. So from that, I'm taking, okay, it wasn't Coburger, or they would have come out and said that. It was someone who saw Kaylee, and she was a very attractive girl and thought, okay, I'd like to get to know her. Maybe I'm gonna execute a meet cute.
56:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
56:17 Speaker 00 Or like a run-in, and then I'll get a chance to talk to her. Is that stalking? Not probably the way that we would think of it.
56:27 Speaker 01 Yeah, I get what you're saying. It's just trying to find an opportunity to have a little face-to-face time without being creepy about it.
56:36 Speaker 00 Like, if you were attracted to someone and you wanted to figure out a way to meet them. And you knew that they took a walk every day at six o'clock.
56:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
56:47 Speaker 00 And you knew their route. Maybe you leave at six going the opposite direction, hoping that a conversation will strike up.
56:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
56:59 Speaker 00 Is that technically stalking? I don't think you'd be charged with that.
57:04 Speaker 01 Unless you do it every day from that point on, attempting the same thing, it might be a little bit too much.
57:09 Speaker 00 It could be at a certain point. I mean, in that situation, there's no ill intent. There's no ill will.
57:16 Speaker 01 Right. Maybe we'll just come across a little creepy.
57:19 Speaker 00 Yeah, I'm not advising to do it. I'm just kind of asking the question. In December 2022, investigators identified an incident from October in which two men were seen at a business and one appeared to follow Kaylee inside. And as she exited to her car, the man did not make contact with her. Investigators spoke to both men and learned that they were trying to meet women at the business. Detectives believe this was an isolated incident and not a pattern of stalking. And, you know, let's face it, Gibbs, women have to put up with a lot, being hit on.
58:00 Speaker 01 Sure they do.
58:00 Speaker 00 Cat calls, things that they really shouldn't have to put up with. But you know, some men will try anything they can think of to meet a woman and some men are just pigs. I don't know how else to say it. I hate to denigrate my, uh, my gender, but I think that's a pretty well-known fact. I don't think I'm letting anything out of the, uh, the bag there.
58:26 Speaker 01 Well, you, you know, you do have two daughters and I'm sure they've told you stories where they were at college. So, you know.
58:32 Speaker 00 Yeah, I think they tend not to tell me a lot because they don't want me to go all Liam Neeson down there, start a ruckus.
58:44 Speaker 01 I can see their concern.
58:45 Speaker 00 Who's this guy? Where is this guy? In September 2025, the public learned that the Idaho State Police spoke to two WSU students who said Kohberger stalked them. He showed up at their workplace every day. Both women said they later heard or were informed of someone watching them through a window outside their homes. Okay, now we're definitely in the area of stalking.
59:11 Speaker 01 That's for sure.
59:12 Speaker 00 You cannot be peeping through people's windows.
59:17 Speaker 01 Uh, ill advised.
59:18 Speaker 00 You also can't show up at their workplace every day. Now, what does every day mean? For what duration? I don't know, but it doesn't sound good.
59:29 Speaker 01 I mean, if it's a restaurant, coffee shop, and you're actually buying something, but if it's like a dentist's office, or...
59:37 Speaker 00 There's only, there's only so many times you get your teeth cleaned.
59:40 Speaker 01 Exactly.
59:41 Speaker 00 The first woman worked at the WSU bookstore, she noticed that Coburger seemed very used to being put off by women. And, you know, this kind of goes back to what we were talking about in episode one, where, you know, many people believe there's, there's a real kind of incel vibe to Brian Coburger. In August or September 2022, she was home alone one night, changing in her room, and someone knocked on her window. She called her husband and the person ran off.
1:00:15 Speaker 01 Right. What's that person thinking at that moment? I'm gonna knock on the window, because I think maybe you'll turn around and be like, hey, hey, you know?
1:00:23 Speaker 00 Open the window and, and let you in?
1:00:25 Speaker 01 I mean, what, what are you thinking?
1:00:27 Speaker 00 It happened again. She said another time after she had started working, she heard someone moving around on her porch at approximately seven in the evening. Her husband came home again and saw a white car leaving the area. And we know that Coburger drove a white Elantra. Now, also, there are a lot of white cars.
1:00:47 Speaker 01 There is, there is.
1:00:49 Speaker 00 Could it be him? Sure. Coburger also seemed to have researched her because he knew personal details about her that she never volunteered. He once came in and asked for her by name, and she was certain she had never told him her name, and she didn't wear a name tag. Coburger also knew what hours she worked and made remarks about her schedule.
1:01:11 Speaker 01 Well, that's definitely stalking right there.
1:01:13 Speaker 00 Yeah, I, I think we're into the area of it for sure. The other student was an undergraduate who worked in the criminology department with Coburger. She declined his advances and told him she was attracted to women, but that didn't stop him from seeking her out almost daily. According to the police report, she was told that she was not the first person to have problems with Brian Kohberger.
1:01:40 Speaker 01 Sounds like it was a consistent thing at the university that he was located at.
1:01:46 Speaker 00 Well, and the, and the police knew about it. We know of one other woman for sure. We just talked about her. She recalled one night when she was working late that she saw Kohberger outside as she was locking up. She said he made eye contact with her when she looked out, which seems strange because you would have to be looking directly at the window where she worked to make eye contact. She ran and hid in a bathroom to avoid him when she saw him enter the building.
1:02:16 Speaker 01 Now that's creepy.
1:02:18 Speaker 00 Well, and I think her reaction tells you how creeped out she was. One day she received a call from a neighbor who said they saw someone very close outside her window and to make sure to lock the door. Soon after this, she learned that she lived near Brian Kohberger. Okay. Does your level of fear go up? I think it has to.
1:02:42 Speaker 01 Yeah. Your spidey senses are on high alert?
1:02:46 Speaker 00 Or tingling.
1:02:47 Speaker 01 Tingling.
1:02:48 Speaker 00 As most people would say, anybody that knows anything about superheroes, which you do not. A fellow classmate of Kohberger's recalled an incident when she felt someone was outside her window and soon after found snow footprints leading to the back window of her apartment. The classmate noted that whoever had left the footprints had backtracked within the tracks. And that's a scary thought, right? That's a real kind of sophisticated move to go back through the same tracks that you made.
1:03:24 Speaker 01 That's somebody that's a professional stalker.
1:03:28 Speaker 00 You could say that. Or Gibbs, let me put this out there. Somebody who knows a lot about criminology and who do we know that knew a lot about criminology? Brian Kohberger.
1:03:42 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:03:42 Speaker 00 She told police that another classmate heard someone trying to open the door to their home a few weeks prior to this incident. I mean, I could understand why these women were scared of him. This is not somebody who is attempting a beat cute, right? To, to meet someone, say hi, maybe ask them on a date. This is someone possibly trying to see if, you know, a woman's door is locked, peeping through their windows, knocking on their windows.
1:04:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:04:16 Speaker 00 When they see them, showing up at their workplace repeatedly, making eye contact in a creepy way.
1:04:26 Speaker 01 I mean, I think these two individuals were, were lucky.
1:04:31 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, really could have been. Is it possible that he was fixated on them and could just have easily killed them? I would say the answer is yeah.
1:04:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:04:45 Speaker 00 So as we wrap this case up, Gibbs, the Idaho college murders case has been in the national headlines for, you know, three, four years now. Although the case is now resolved, there still are a lot of questions left unanswered. We don't know why Brian Kohberger targeted the house at 1122 King Road, why he appeared to stalk the area for months beforehand, and why he chose to enter the house on November 13th, 2022. Did he intend on killing one of the residents or all of them?
1:05:26 Speaker 00 We don't know his motive, although it appears that he did show an interest in high-profile killers. It's possible he studied them because he wanted to become a serial killer or to commit a murder without getting caught. And it seems he used some of his knowledge from his criminology studies to conceal his crimes.
1:05:48 Speaker 01 Well, having all that knowledge didn't keep him from getting caught, did it?
1:05:52 Speaker 00 No, no. And, you know, I think especially when you're talking today with the technology that's out there, it has to be harder and harder to get away with some of these crimes. Would they have caught Brian Kohberger in the 1970s? I don't know. You know, cell phone, tower data played a big part.
1:06:16 Speaker 01 Sure.
1:06:17 Speaker 00 In this case.
1:06:18 Speaker 01 DNA.
1:06:19 Speaker 00 Yeah, DNA played a huge role. Now, they could have gotten there possibly. Some of these women coming forward saying, hey, this guy, you know, he's been stalking me and maybe they put two and two together. But, you know, you, you had the WSU and then the University of Idaho, granted only seven, eight miles apart, but would they have put it together back then with agencies maybe not able to communicate with each other as much? I don't know that they would have.
1:06:52 Speaker 01 I think it would have been a challenge. But in that scenario, would it have been difficult for him to learn about those victims? Would he have known about them?
1:07:02 Speaker 00 If he got all of his, his information through social media, I would say, yeah, he wouldn't have had that access. But the, you know, the one thing I will say about this case is that, boy, it captured people's attention.
1:07:18 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
1:07:18 Speaker 00 All over. And it continues to. Because like I just said, there are still questions that we don't have the answers to. And I think anytime you have that, even in a solved case, you're still going to have people debating it. You know, it's not like he came out and said, you know, I killed these people and here is exactly why.
1:07:42 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:07:43 Speaker 00 You know, I saw. One of the girls, one of the women, I started casing the house. I went in thinking she was there alone. I'm just making something up here. My intent was to do this, this, and this. Things went wrong. I ended up killing four people.
1:08:02 Speaker 01 Right.
1:08:03 Speaker 00 He hasn't said any of that.
1:08:04 Speaker 01 No, and probably won't.
1:08:06 Speaker 00 Now, there's no reason for him to.
1:08:08 Speaker 01 No, he's never gonna get out.
1:08:09 Speaker 00 He already has the plea deal, so, and I think, you know, that's why the Gonzalez family and others are, you know, somewhat upset that they didn't get more out of him for taking the death penalty off the table. But that's it for our episodes on the Idaho college murders. We got a voicemail. You wanna check that out?
1:08:30 Speaker 01 Let's hear it.
1:08:31 Speaker 02 Hey, Mike and Gibby. This is Sarah from Florida. Just calling to wish you both a very happy 2026. I hope you've been enjoying this holiday season with your families and loved ones. Um, I wanted to say thank you for a great year in 2025 with TCAT, TCAT Unsolved, and of course Patreon. Um, I finally joined Patreon this year. I've been loving it. Um, and I called also with a case suggestion, um, for the new year. It's about, um, these two hackers who actually located, um, a website on the dark web where you can hire a hitman.
1:09:15 Speaker 02 Um, if you look up on YouTube, Descon33 Kill List, um, it's a 30-minute video, pretty short, um, little bit of hacker babble in there, so you kinda have to be patient with that. But, um, arrests have been made, and it is just a fascinating story. So I hope you have a chance to look into it, um, if not for the show, just for your own entertainment. So, thanks for everything. Um, again, Happy New Year. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.
1:09:50 Speaker 00 Oh, awesome. Thanks for the voicemail and thanks for the case suggestion. I hope that site on the dark web was not hirerexwest.com.
1:10:01 Speaker 01 Listen, I have gained a lot of business from my dark web activities.
1:10:06 Speaker 00 I'm sure you have. I'm sure you have. You know what they say, what happens on the dark web stays on the dark web.
1:10:13 Speaker 01 There's a reason why it's called the dark web.
1:10:15 Speaker 00 I don't understand the dark web. I'm not trying to get on the dark web, but
1:10:21 Speaker 01 Definitely some corners of the dark web you want to stay.
1:10:24 Speaker 00 I'm staying out of the whole thing because I can't imagine there's anything good that happens on there.
1:10:29 Speaker 01 Yeah. Besides Rex West.
1:10:31 Speaker 00 All right, that is it for another episode of True Crime All The Time. So for Mike.
1:10:36 Speaker 01 And Gibby.
1:10:36 Speaker 00 Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.
Previous The Idaho College Murders Part 1 Next Jermaine Ross Page updated October 31, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated