Pod Insights True Crime All The Time Johnny Lewis About this episode Johnny Lewis was an actor on many different shows. He was best known for his roles on The OC and Sons of Anarchy. He was a teen heartthrob who once dated Katy Perry. A motorcycle accident sent his life spiraling downward, culminating in an unbelievable tragedy. There was no doubt he suffered some head trauma during the accident, and it is difficult to think it didn't have something to do with his later actions.
Join Mike and Gibb as they discuss Johnny Lewis. On September 26th, 2012, actor Johnny Lewis murdered his elderly landlady and soon after fell to his death from the roof of her home. Over ten years later, many aspects of the case remain unexplained.
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1:48 Speaker 00 Hello everyone, and welcome to episode 428 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?
1:59 Speaker 01 Hey, I'm doing pretty good. How about you?
2:01 Speaker 00 I'm doing great.
2:01 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:02 Speaker 00 Just took a shot of honey.
2:04 Speaker 01 You and the weird things that you put in your mouth.
2:06 Speaker 00 Yeah. Honey is what, you know, kind of coats the, coats the throat.
2:13 Speaker 01 You were like gurgling it.
2:16 Speaker 00 Or gargling it.
2:19 Speaker 00 What are you gonna do? You and I just finished taping a Patreon episode.
2:25 Speaker 01 We did.
2:26 Speaker 00 That by the time this comes out, we'll have dropped Saturday night. It's on the Bermondsey Horror and it's about a love triangle between a Swiss woman, an Irishman and an Englishman.
2:41 Speaker 01 It's not like a really bad joke.
2:42 Speaker 00 It does. The start of one, but this kind of love triangle led to one of the most infamous murders in British history. So that's out right now. Check it out if you're a Patreon member. If you're not, it's a great time to sign up. We've got a lot of stuff out there.
2:57 Speaker 01 We really do.
2:58 Speaker 00 We also have a brand new episode out on True Crime All The Time Unsolved, where we're talking about the Jack family disappearance. The Jack family back in 1989 got into a vehicle driven by a stranger who offered them temporary jobs at a logging camp in Canada's British Columbia province. And then they disappeared.
3:20 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:21 Speaker 00 So there's a lot of mystery and we get into all of it.
3:24 Speaker 01 Hey, and if you haven't signed up for CrimeCon yet, get out there and do that. Come see us in Denver in September.
3:30 Speaker 00 Yeah. Use our promo code TCAT to get something off your standard batch. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All The Time?
3:39 Speaker 01 Well, after we do Patreon names, yeah.
3:41 Speaker 00 Oh, well, we probably should do that. Ms. Luna Joe.
3:45 Speaker 01 Hey, Joe.
3:46 Speaker 00 Candace Williams.
3:47 Speaker 01 There's Candace.
3:48 Speaker 00 Sophia Nicholson.
3:49 Speaker 01 Hey, thanks, Sophia.
3:50 Speaker 00 Who on Patreon you called either Jack's daughter, granddaughter, or great granddaughter.
3:57 Speaker 01 Yeah, I didn't remember how old Jack is.
3:59 Speaker 00 You weren't sure. Exactly. Charlie Duff.
4:01 Speaker 01 Hey, Charlie.
4:02 Speaker 00 Mark Cameron.
4:03 Speaker 01 Hey, thanks, Mark.
4:04 Speaker 00 Diana Renaldi.
4:05 Speaker 01 Oh, Renaldi. It sounds like a soccer player.
4:09 Speaker 00 Okay.
4:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
4:10 Speaker 00 Vicky Adolf.
4:11 Speaker 01 Hey, Vicky.
4:12 Speaker 00 Brett Ford.
4:13 Speaker 01 What's going on, Ford?
4:14 Speaker 00 Lori jumped out of their highest level.
4:16 Speaker 01 Look at Lori.
4:17 Speaker 00 Amber Tretin.
4:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think it's Tretin.
4:21 Speaker 00 I like the way you said it.
4:22 Speaker 01 Yeah.
4:23 Speaker 00 And last but not least, Jerry Taylor.
4:25 Speaker 01 Hey, thanks, Jerry.
4:25 Speaker 00 And then if we go back into the vault. This week, we selected Christopher O.
4:31 Speaker 01 Hey, thanks, O.
4:32 Speaker 00 Yeah, appreciate the new support, the continued support. We also had PayPal donations from Paul Miller.
4:37 Speaker 01 Hey, Paul.
4:38 Speaker 00 And Kim Long.
4:39 Speaker 01 There's Kim.
4:40 Speaker 00 So, thank you to everyone. Okay, now are you ready, Gibbs?
4:44 Speaker 01 Now, I'm ready.
4:45 Speaker 00 We're talking about Johnny Lewis. And this is a case that I've been wanting to do for a while. Because Johnny Lewis was an actor who played a part on one of my favorite shows of all time, Sons of Anarchy.
5:02 Speaker 01 You did love that show.
5:04 Speaker 00 Yeah, and I know it's a show you like too. I also find it fascinating that the guy who played the kind of deputy sheriff was Taylor Sheridan.
5:17 Speaker 01 It's really strange, isn't it?
5:19 Speaker 00 The guy who is now making what seems to be every show on television.
5:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
5:25 Speaker 00 And they're all fantastic.
5:26 Speaker 01 They really are. Maybe he learned something from doing that role, I don't know.
5:30 Speaker 00 But in 2012, actor Johnny Lewis committed a murder and then fell to his death. So, you know, over 10 years later, it's about 13 years almost, this still is a very strange crime. And there are a lot of aspects to the case that remain unexplained. Jonathan Kendrick Lewis was born on October 29th, 1983. He was just 28 years old when he died. Johnny grew up in the North Hollywood and Sherman Oaks neighborhoods of LA. According to LA Magazine, his family practiced Scientology.
6:10 Speaker 00 And his parents, Michael and Devona Lewis, attained the highest level within the religion, operating Satan.
6:19 Speaker 01 Really, the highest level?
6:20 Speaker 00 Yeah.
6:21 Speaker 01 That's impressive.
6:23 Speaker 00 In whatever you do.
6:23 Speaker 01 Exactly.
6:25 Speaker 00 According to the writings of founder L. Ron Hubbard, an operating Satan is someone in a spiritual state who offers knowing and willing cause over life, thought, matter, energy, space, and time. Okay, let's break that down for a minute. I don't know a ton about Scientology, I'll be honest about that, but all of those things seem like they would be very advantageous to have.
6:53 Speaker 01 They would be.
6:54 Speaker 00 If you can, knowing and willingly, kind of have some effect on life, thought, matter, energy, space, and time. Okay.
7:08 Speaker 01 Sounds pretty powerful.
7:09 Speaker 00 Johnny Lewis had been an actor since he was a child. His mother started taking him to auditions when he was six. He got his first role at age seven, a small part in an escalator safety video.
7:22 Speaker 01 Okay.
7:24 Speaker 00 I mean, everybody's got to start somewhere.
7:26 Speaker 01 Exactly.
7:27 Speaker 00 But he did a number of commercials. He even appeared in shows like Seventh Heaven, Malcolm in the Middle, and Drake and Josh. And I remember Drake and Josh well. That was one of the shows I think on Nickelodeon that my kids just loved.
7:42 Speaker 01 And that turned out to be the Drake, the magician, right?
7:46 Speaker 00 Did you say magician?
7:48 Speaker 01 I started to say-
7:49 Speaker 00 That's a cross between a musician, I said a musician, a magician and a musician.
7:56 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah. Turned out to be the rap star, right?
7:58 Speaker 00 No.
7:59 Speaker 01 No, I always thought it was.
8:00 Speaker 00 I mean, he's, he is a singer.
8:03 Speaker 01 I just thought-
8:04 Speaker 00 Drake.
8:05 Speaker 01 Drake.
8:06 Speaker 00 No, that's not Drake the rapper.
8:07 Speaker 01 It's not?
8:08 Speaker 00 No.
8:09 Speaker 01 I always thought it was.
8:10 Speaker 00 This guy was white.
8:11 Speaker 01 Oh.
8:12 Speaker 00 You obviously have never seen Drake and Josh.
8:14 Speaker 01 I thought I have.
8:15 Speaker 00 No, no.
8:18 Speaker 00 Drake was the one who came forward with the allegations against all the people at Nickelodeon.
8:27 Speaker 01 Oh, really?
8:28 Speaker 00 They had the big documentary where he had been abused.
8:31 Speaker 01 Yeah, I didn't see that then. Yeah.
8:33 Speaker 00 At the age of 18, Johnny moved to Hollywood and lived with other actors. In his early twenties, he became a teen heartthrob with his reoccurring role as Dennis Chilly Childress on the OC, which ended in 2006. I'll be honest with you, I never saw the OC.
8:52 Speaker 01 Didn't you?
8:53 Speaker 00 No, I think that was past my teen heartthrob age. Not that I was into teen heartthrobs ever, but you know what I mean?
9:04 Speaker 01 Yeah, definitely past my time.
9:06 Speaker 00 Yeah, well, everything's past your time. I was not watching teen shows in 2006. I'd been married for 10 years by that point. That year, Johnny began dating famous singer Katy Perry. Their romance was short, but it allegedly inspired two of her songs. The one that got away and Circle the Drank. And I don't know a lot of Katy Perry songs. I don't know either of those. I think the only one that I actually know is Paper Bag. It talks about feeling like a paper bag floating something, something.
9:40 Speaker 01 Yeah, I don't know that one.
9:41 Speaker 00 Yeah.
9:41 Speaker 01 Didn't she sing one like You Are The Tiger or The Lion or something?
9:45 Speaker 00 You Are The Tiger?
9:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:46 Speaker 00 I Have The Tiger from Rocky? No, she did not sing that. Johnny appeared in more popular TV shows such as Bones, CSI, and Criminal Minds. So, I mean, you'd have to say he was doing pretty well.
9:58 Speaker 01 Sounds like it.
9:59 Speaker 00 He also enjoyed writing poems, screenplays, and he started writing two novels. He was said to have been a very introspective person who often journaled his thoughts.
10:11 Speaker 01 Well, there we have something in common.
10:12 Speaker 00 I know you have. A whole room of journals.
10:16 Speaker 01 I do.
10:17 Speaker 00 Which, if they are ever found, most likely would be used as evidence against you.
10:23 Speaker 01 Would not be good.
10:24 Speaker 00 No.
10:24 Speaker 01 Yeah.
10:25 Speaker 00 I, I picture like the movie Seven, when they find his journals and the writing is so small. There's like 10,000 words on a page.
10:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
10:34 Speaker 00 And there's hundreds and hundreds of these journals, they're gonna be put into evidence.
10:40 Speaker 01 They're stacked in that one room. So, yeah.
10:43 Speaker 00 Johnny Lewis's friend said that he wasn't a partier. He wasn't known to drink to excess or use drugs. Actor and friend Jonathan Tucker told LA Magazine, "That's what made Johnny special. No drugs, no alcohol, just poetry and philosophy." And let's face it, that would be pretty different, I think, from a lot of celebrities, a lot of actors. I don't want to say they're all, you know, drinkers and, and take drugs, but you know, you get to out to LA, Gibbs. And, you know, a lot of people do kind of get hooked on that fast-paced lifestyle, which sometimes can include, you know, taking designer drugs and things like that.
11:28 Speaker 01 I know, man. I, I try to keep a good eye on my son, cause you know, he's been out there for almost two years now.
11:33 Speaker 00 Yeah.
11:34 Speaker 01 And I'm like.
11:35 Speaker 00 Fortunately, he doesn't have the kind of money, uh, that some of these people do.
11:39 Speaker 01 Exactly.
11:39 Speaker 00 To, to be able to afford those designer drugs.
11:42 Speaker 01 Exactly.
11:43 Speaker 00 You're still keeping an eye on him.
11:44 Speaker 01 I do.
11:45 Speaker 00 Johnny Lewis was most well-known for his role in the show Sons of Anarchy. For two seasons, he played the character Kip Hafsaq Epps, a prospect hoping to become a full member of the motorcycle club. And we talked about it a little bit, right? It is one of my favorite shows. So I have a number of shows, and I know I've talked about this on Patreon before, that I like to watch every year, binge it. You're right, binge the series all the way through. Well, Sons of Anarchy is one of those shows. You know, Breaking Bad, The Office, there, there's, there's just a few of them.
12:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
12:26 Speaker 00 That once a year, I'll watch him all the way through. And obviously I have watched Sons of Anarchy, you know, all the way through a number of times. I thought that this character, Half Sack, as he was known, was a really interesting role. Now, why did they call him Half Sack? Do you remember?
12:50 Speaker 01 I don't.
12:51 Speaker 00 He was in the military and lost one of his huevos.
12:57 Speaker 01 That's why he was Half Sack.
12:59 Speaker 00 Yeah.
12:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:00 Speaker 00 And there at one point in the show, he talked about getting a replacement. And I think he tried and got infected. Anyway, his character was killed off in the season two finale, which aired in 2009. So again, there's spoilers here, but if you haven't seen Sons of Anarchy now by this point, I don't feel bad for giving certain things away.
13:22 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's been out there for a long time.
13:24 Speaker 00 Yeah, been out there. It's been off the air for a long time. But I did think, and I know a lot of other people did too, that, you know, it was shocking when he was killed off the show. Now, he was killed off in a very memorable way. You know, the main lead, Jax's son, had been stolen by, I think, the IRA. And in that process, Kip was trying to fight them off and he got stabbed and killed. The show creator Kurt Sutter explained why he left the show, saying Johnny wasn't happy. Creatively, he really wanted out of his contract. And I remember when that came out later, you're like, oh, okay.
14:08 Speaker 00 So that's why they killed him off. Because he was a pretty popular character.
14:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
14:15 Speaker 00 But then the other thing you think about is you're on this hit show, seen by millions every week.
14:21 Speaker 01 Right.
14:22 Speaker 00 And all of a sudden you make the decision that, you know what? I don't want to be on this thing.
14:26 Speaker 01 Well, obviously the fame, money and all that wasn't his driving factor.
14:31 Speaker 00 No, I think you're right, because if it's all about that, you stay with it. And you keep raking in those checks. And presumably the checks are going to keep getting bigger and bigger as the show goes on. Johnny's father, Michael Lewis, told LA Magazine, he told us he left because the show was getting into gratuitous violence. He didn't want to communicate that as an artist. And, you know, let's face it, the show is pretty violent.
15:00 Speaker 01 It is. And obviously, as an actor, artist, that's your right, right? If you don't want to be part of that, you know, you have to find a way to communicate that to the writers and the director and see if you can get out of the show if you don't want to be part of it anymore.
15:18 Speaker 00 Which is, seems like what he did. In April 2009, Johnny learned about a place called The Writers' Villa, a retreat for creatives. The Writers' Villa was a 1927 Spanish-style mansion owned by real estate broker and arts patron Catherine Davis. Kathy Davis brought many famous playwrights, screenwriters, novelists, and actors to her home. She was known by the nickname Miss Kathy and was originally from Texas. She moved to California in 1950. She attended UCLA and worked in publishing before she married James Davis. Their daughter, author Margaret Leslie Davis, was born in 1958.
16:02 Speaker 00 The family purchased their mansion in the Los Feliz neighborhood soon after. Kathy and her husband later divorced. After her daughter became an adult, Kathy started a new career as a real estate agent and offered her mansion as a temporary home for wealthy clients searching for houses. Seems like California would be a really great place to be a real estate agent.
16:26 Speaker 01 I think so.
16:27 Speaker 00 If you were good at it, you could make a boatload of money.
16:30 Speaker 01 I mean, you sell 20 homes here a year, you sell versus selling 20 out there is going to be a big difference.
16:36 Speaker 00 Yeah, the commissions are going to be a lot higher. Over time, the home became an extended stay retreat for up-and-coming performers, writers, and directors. But it was more than a writing retreat. Some actors came to the mansion when they were going through a hard time emotionally and just... Needed a calming space and it was said that tenants loved Kathy for her kindness and generosity. And her reputation grew through word of mouth. She charged tenants between sixteen hundred and fifty and three thousand dollars a month. For a room with a private bath. People were willing and eager to pay. So they could stay at the locally famous writer's villa.
17:19 Speaker 00 Okay. I mean, given prices in California, it's not outrageous.
17:24 Speaker 01 No.
17:25 Speaker 00 But you're only getting one room.
17:27 Speaker 01 I mean.
17:27 Speaker 00 With a bath.
17:28 Speaker 01 I think that sixteen fifty is pretty close to what my son plays for a studio.
17:32 Speaker 00 For a studio apartment. But you're also surrounded by other people kind of like you, right? Creative type people.
17:39 Speaker 01 Right.
17:40 Speaker 00 But I'm trying to think, okay, you know, this is a mansion. How many rooms does she have? She could have been pulling in quite a bit of money.
17:47 Speaker 01 It could have been a little, pretty good gig for her.
17:50 Speaker 00 Yeah. Johnny Lewis contacted Kathy Davis and moved into a room in the house. And it was said he loved his time there. Johnny's friend, actress Bo Garrett, told LA Magazine. I hung out with him over there a few times. I remember all the nice things he said about her. And how she opened her place to artists and eccentrics. Johnny moved out after two months. After leaving Sons of Anarchy, he was starting a new phase of his career. He didn't return to television. He appeared in some movies and short films, but. He was mostly living off his money from Sons of Anarchy while working on a novel. About a musical genius trying to make it in San Francisco.
18:33 Speaker 00 And I keep kind of coming back to this, you know, decision to leave a hit show. That cannot be an easy one to make.
18:40 Speaker 01 No.
18:41 Speaker 00 Because of the money.
18:43 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, I think you have to make that decision and say, you know what? I care about who I am as a person more than I am about this job.
18:53 Speaker 00 Well, I just think it shows you that. The violence in the depiction of violence was so important to him that he was willing to walk away.
19:04 Speaker 01 Yeah, which I think would be tough because out there you don't get a lot of chances. And that was a huge chance right there, right? And that's something that.
19:14 Speaker 00 That's like an actor's dream.
19:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah. One, you're going to be part of a good series. It's going to be around for a while. And then it's also probably the big stepping stone on to the next thing you do.
19:28 Speaker 00 But, and I'm sure we'll talk about it more. It's pretty strange that he left the show over violence and then ends up committing a murder.
19:40 Speaker 01 Right.
19:41 Speaker 00 So we'll get into that more as we talk about the murder. In the summer of 2009, Johnny learned his girlfriend, actress Diane Marshall Green, was pregnant. He was excited to be a father and their daughter, Cullum May, was born on April 16th, 2010. Although they were no longer together, Johnny and Diane moved into an apartment to raise the baby. This arrangement was ultimately unsuccessful and Johnny moved out. A lengthy custody battle ensued. So I get it. Now you meet someone, you fall in love, you have a baby and things don't work out.
20:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:20 Speaker 00 But you have to figure out a way to be a co-parent. People have to figure out ways to co-parent. It sounded like they thought they could make a go at, you know, living together, parenting together, but not being a couple.
20:37 Speaker 01 Doing what they thought was best for the baby.
20:39 Speaker 00 Yeah.
20:39 Speaker 01 Probably finances and all that.
20:41 Speaker 00 Yeah, but I think that would be pretty tough and obviously it didn't work out. In late October 2011, Johnny got into a serious motorcycle accident. He was allowed to leave the hospital after he tested negative for concussion. And we are talking about, you know, irony here a little bit. It is somewhat ironic that he got into this serious motorcycle accident.
21:09 Speaker 00 After, you know, being on a show which featured a motorcycle gang and a lot of motorcycle riding.
21:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's true.
21:17 Speaker 00 Michael Lewis noticed that his son behaved erratically. After the accident, he scheduled two MRIs, but Johnny refused to go. And Johnny's friends noticed the change in his behavior as well. For example, during an acting class in December 2011, his friend John Tucker heard him speak in a faint British accent. He asked Johnny about it, but he shrugged it off. Okay. I know, you know, you do accents, but
21:46 Speaker 01 All the time.
21:47 Speaker 00 You know, you're doing them. You're doing it on purpose.
21:50 Speaker 01 Yeah.
21:50 Speaker 00 They're not always great or even good. But, you know, this almost makes it sound like he didn't even realize he was speaking in a British accent.
22:01 Speaker 01 Like almost like some of those people that have surgeries and they wake up after being under anesthesia and they, they sound like they're from a different country.
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24:45 Speaker 00 On January 3rd, 2012, Johnny was hanging out in the Northridge condo he purchased for his parents. His mother was cooking breakfast. He was still in his pajamas, but he said he was going for a walk. As he passed another unit, he thought he heard someone in distress and broke in. The condo was empty. Soon after, two men arrived and asked Johnny to leave, and he attacked them with an empty Perrier bottle. He hit each man on the head with the bottle. A physical fight ensued, and Johnny bit one of the men on the arm while attempting to flee. He was overpowered and detained until the police arrived.
25:26 Speaker 00 So I think we have to talk about it a little bit here, Gibbs. You know, you have this picture of Johnny Lewis before the motorcycle accident.
25:36 Speaker 01 Right.
25:37 Speaker 00 And it's poetry, creativity. He's dating Katy Perry. People seem to really like him. All of a sudden, his family, his friends are noticing that his behavior has changed dramatically. He's becoming violent, but yet his dad's trying to go get him to do some MRIs and he won't do them.
26:03 Speaker 01 But maybe there's, you know, some type of head injury that needs to be looked at.
26:07 Speaker 00 Now, as far as this incident goes, Johnny claimed it was self-defense, but he was charged with trespassing, burglary and assault with a deadly weapon. Three days later, he was sent to the psychiatric ward for a 72-hour hold. According to LA Magazine, when his father bailed him out, his discharge summary stated, "Chief complaint: blunt head trauma and suicidal."
26:33 Speaker 01 It says a lot.
26:34 Speaker 00 Yeah, and I think if you're Johnny's parents, you've got to be really concerned about this, right? You know there was a motorcycle accident.
26:44 Speaker 01 Right.
26:44 Speaker 00 You have to be thinking some type of head trauma. Now you have it in writing, blunt head trauma, but also suicidal.
26:54 Speaker 01 And that has to scare you.
26:55 Speaker 00 Yeah, very much so. Johnny returned to his parents' home in Northridge. His sister Anna told LA Magazine that he looked like a wounded, broken animal with two black eyes. He wouldn't let anyone near him and he was highly sensitive to light. He turned off all the lights in the house and even disabled the fuse box. And I mean, for anybody who's had a concussion, sensitivity to light is, you know, one of the, the symptoms.
27:24 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking.
27:27 Speaker 00 Later that month, Johnny tried to end his life. By the end of January, though, he seemed a little more stable and his father decided to let him go back to living on his own in Santa Monica. But on February 10th, 2012, Johnny was arrested for punching a man outside a yogurt shop. He was held in custody with bail set at $20,000. On February 12th, Johnny was charged with two misdemeanors, assault and battery and resisting arrest. He pleaded no contest and was put on summary probation for three years. He was ordered to serve 12 days in the county jail and pay fines and restitution. And I just can't
28:08 Speaker 00 help but think, Gibbs, how different his life is going after this motorcycle accident. I mean, presumably, as far as we know, he wasn't doing any of these things before it. And now it's like, you know, he's getting in trouble all the time. You know, he's trying to, he's trying to end his life.
28:29 Speaker 01 Well, no doubt this motorcycle accident has been impactful.
28:33 Speaker 00 Yeah, it's hard not to think. He was affected in some way. It's almost like, you know, he had his life before the motorcycle accident and then his life after. And they are very different. Days later, after being charged with these misdemeanors, Johnny walked into the ocean, fully clothed, and was hospitalized for hypothermia. And the other thing that, you know, it does seem to me is that it's, he's kind of like crying out for help.
29:03 Speaker 01 Sure.
29:04 Speaker 00 In a way. On February 18th, Louis was arrested for trying to break into a woman's apartment in Santa Monica. He claimed he thought it was a friend's apartment. He was charged with entering a residence with intent to commit a felony. And his bail was set at $500,000. I think the other thing we're seeing is that his behavior and crimes are escalated.
29:30 Speaker 01 Just sporadic, doing really strange things.
29:34 Speaker 00 On February 24th, Johnny was charged with two counts of felony assault with a deadly weapon stemming from the January 3rd incident. He didn't appear for two court dates. During the second court session, his public defender told the judge that he hadn't had no contact with his client. His bail was set at $100,000 and a warrant was issued for his arrest. But Johnny did show up for his third court. And the warrant was vacated. On March 19th, Johnny faced new charges related to the February 18th incident. He was charged with felony burglary and loitering and a misdemeanor disorderly conduct charge. He didn't show up for his arraignment and once again, a warrant was issued
30:19 Speaker 00 for his arrest. His bail was set at $250,000.
30:24 Speaker 01 He's really just stuck in a bad cycle, isn't he?
30:26 Speaker 00 Yeah. Johnny failed to appear for multiple hearings. When he did show up, his bail was lowered to $150,000. On March 27th, Johnny was taken into custody for the January 3rd incident. He pleaded not guilty to two counts of felony assault with a deadly weapon and remained in custody pending trial. On April 12th, Louis was sent to jail for the February 18th incident.
30:53 Speaker 01 He's got so much activity going on.
30:56 Speaker 00 Well, and these are not nickel and dime things. I mean, these are felonies. In May 2012, a court ordered Johnny's conditional release to Ridgeview Ranch in Altadena, a secure treatment center that specializes in mental health, drug, and alcohol-related issues. Johnny's lawyer had been trying to persuade courts to allow him to stay in a treatment center rather than serving jail time. However, Johnny didn't appear to be struggling with addiction. Tim Woodhead, a former inmate who befriended Johnny, said, "I did a lot of drug seeking. In that place, there were a lot of opportunities that he turned down multiple times." And that kind of goes back to what friends said about him.
31:41 Speaker 00 You know, he wasn't a partier, wasn't a big drinker. You know, he wasn't into drugs. Now, you would think if you're going to start taking drugs, maybe prison would be the place if you could score them, but, or jail.
31:53 Speaker 01 You can score them there.
31:55 Speaker 00 But even then, he was turning them down.
31:58 Speaker 01 Yeah, I really feel this is geared more towards his injury.
32:01 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah. And something going on with his mental health. I don't think there's any doubt about that. Doctors prescribed Lewis drugs to treat schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, but he was resistant to taking medication. And it's thought that he may have pretended to swallow the pills, only to spit them out later. And, you know, that would be sad if that's what happened.
32:27 Speaker 01 Sure.
32:28 Speaker 00 You know, if in your mind, you're thinking, hey, I don't have these things that they say I have, I'm not taking this medication. But you really do suffer from some of these. Okay, you're not getting the help that these people think they're giving you.
32:44 Speaker 01 No, no. And if you would take the medicine, you'd probably be in a better place.
32:50 Speaker 00 In May 2012, Johnny's friend Jonathan Tucker picked him up for a court appearance. Tucker recalled to LA Magazine, "It was another person completely. He had a look I've only seen in disturbed veterans of war. His memory was scattered. He vacillated between basic lucid conversation and incoherence." Here's a guy that's known him a long time, knowing before the accident, he's in a great position, just like, you know, Johnny's family would be, to see the stark difference in him now versus, you know, prior to the accident. Johnny's father
33:31 Speaker 00 said, "He did not receive a clear diagnosis. They didn't know if he was experiencing psychosis, bipolar disorder, or had a traumatic brain injury." Michael Lewis told LA Magazine, "We got the motorcycle head injury." Then he's beaten in the head 17 times. And apparently, this was during the Northridge break-in. Then, when he's in jail, he's pounding his own head against the concrete and attempting to leap from the second-story pier. Then you have the doctor's own diagnosis of brain trauma. And that's just the stuff we know about.
34:10 Speaker 01 Yeah. Wow.
34:12 Speaker 00 That's a lot.
34:12 Speaker 01 It is a lot.
34:13 Speaker 00 And the other thing I think we have to point out is You know, once you suffer from a serious head injury, you know, let's say a concussion or something like that. It's known that you're much more likely to experience it again. Right. And if he's being hit in the head and all these things, we don't know how many different concussions or traumatic brain injuries he suffered.
34:40 Speaker 01 We just know it's not good.
34:41 Speaker 00 No, it's not good at all. LA Magazine spoke to Christopher Giza, M.D., a pediatric neurologist and neuroscientist at the UCLA Brain Injury Research Center. He explained, "Some areas of the brain are particularly prone to traumatic brain injury. If you have an injury in the frontal lobes, you can have significant changes in behavior, irritability, impulse control problems, and at the extreme end, violent outbursts." And, you know, you and I have talked about this to some degree on True Crime All The Time for many years. You know, go back to some of the serial killers that we've profiled,
35:23 Speaker 00 who have had what is thought to have been, you know, traumatic head injuries. And the question has always been, what role, if any, did that play in what they ultimately did? And here you have a guy saying that, hey, if you got an injury to the frontal lobe, you could experience violent outbursts.
35:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, on the severe side.
35:48 Speaker 00 However, Dr. Giza said that the symptoms Louis's father described after the 2011 accident are indicative of a mild injury, such as a concussion, which wouldn't trigger aggressive behavior. As reported by The Hollywood Reporter, Johnny was arrested on May 23rd for failure to appear and was ordered to complete 30 days of rehab. After completing treatment, he would be put on probation. And he was transported to Ridgeview that day. And I think I would be hypocritical if I didn't point out that it seems like, you know, he might be getting off a little easy here for some of these felonies. Now,
36:33 Speaker 00 Is it because of some of the, the diagnosis around mental health issues? Or is it because, you know, he was this actor? I, I don't know.
36:44 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'm kind of leaning towards the diagnosis.
36:47 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, he was ordered to complete 30 days of rehab, but then he's going to be on probation. So I, I don't know. We know celebrities can sometimes be given more leniency than regular people, but I don't know if that was the case here or not. Based on the information presented by LA Magazine. It seems like Johnny was not happy to be at Ridgeview, but his family thought it was better than staying in jail. Okay. I, I don't know that there's not anything that's better than staying in jail.
37:20 Speaker 01 Yeah, but try to avoid jail.
37:22 Speaker 00 At all costs.
37:23 Speaker 01 Yes.
37:23 Speaker 00 I've seen some of those shows. 60 Days In or whatever they are.
37:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:28 Speaker 00 There, there's some stuff that goes down there that I don't want to be a part of.
37:31 Speaker 01 There definitely is some stuff you don't want to be part of.
37:33 Speaker 00 On June 12th, 2012, Johnny sent an email to a few friends who later shared it with his father. He wrote per LA Magazine, "The core of the story is that I was involved in a fight. My actions were self-defense, but my means were glass bottom. After a few court dates, a stint in county jail, and the realization that there is no self-defense law in California, I'm back on my feet and doing well. The court case is still ongoing, but from what we're hearing, it has every good chance of getting dropped outright or disappearing with time served." He wrote at the end of the email, "On a side note, we are pleading rehab to avoid trial. Addicted to marijuana. What a trip."
38:19 Speaker 00 So there's, you know, there's a couple of things here. First of all, the email is very well-written, right? It seems lucid. It seems coherent. Now, he obviously is implying that the pleading of rehab is made up. He's not addicted to marijuana.
38:39 Speaker 01 He's definitely tried to put his spin on it, right? I don't think he feels with what's going on is, is everybody else does.
38:46 Speaker 00 No, I would agree with that. And how many people, you know, in this situation wouldn't try to put their own spin on it, right? When you're writing to friends, family, are you going to tell them everything? Are you gonna, you know, spin it a little bit? I think, case in point, when the doctors are telling him that he might be suffering from this, this, and this, they give him medication, he says, no, I'm not taking that. According to Michael Lewis, Johnny's claims of being addicted to marijuana didn't fly with counselors. So he switched and pretended to be addicted to alcohol. At that point, he said they started to believe him.
39:29 Speaker 01 Probably a more believable addiction.
39:31 Speaker 00 Well, more people get addicted to alcohol, I believe, than get addicted to marijuana. Johnny's mental state seemed to improve after a few months at the rehab facility. In one of his final journal entries from July 2012, he wrote, "Felt more whole today, more complete, like parts of myself had been stolen in my sleep and scattered all over the world, and now they've begun to return. I'm more determined than ever now. I'll face what I am. I'll face what I was." I mean, if you just judged him from his writings, you would think, okay, he's doing better.
40:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:09 Speaker 00 Or he's doing okay.
40:11 Speaker 01 If you can believe him.
40:12 Speaker 00 If you believe him, that's the thing. Meanwhile, Johnny's lawyer was trying to get a deal where he would spend a whole year at Ridgeview instead of spending it in jail. Johnny believed his case would be dropped because of his self-defense argument. So he fired his lawyer and chose to act as his own attorney. He thought he'd spend a few days in jail before he was released.
40:34 Speaker 01 Well, clearly, he feels like he can do better than his attorney at that time. And we know some people feel that way. I don't think it's wise, but people will do what they want to do.
40:45 Speaker 00 Well, he has the right to do it, for sure. My question is, Is this a little bit of delusional thinking? Right? I can do this on my own. My case is going to be dropped. I'm just going to spend a few nights in jail and that'll be the end of it.
41:02 Speaker 01 Yeah, no big deal.
41:03 Speaker 00 It's no big deal. On August 8th, 2012, Johnny appeared in court representing himself. He withdrew his not guilty plea and pleaded no contest to one count of felony assault with a deadly weapon. He was sentenced to three years formal probation and 365 days in the county jail, plus restitution and fines.
41:25 Speaker 01 Wonder if he was expecting that outcome?
41:27 Speaker 00 Well, that's a year in jail. That's, that's a lot more than a few days. On August 17th, Johnny pleaded no contest to felony attempted burglary and was sentenced to another 291 days in jail, plus fines and restitution.
41:43 Speaker 01 Stacking up.
41:44 Speaker 00 It's almost two years.
41:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:45 Speaker 00 Probation officials expressed concern about Johnny's mental health and the possibility of him being a danger to others. According to USA Today, a probation officer who evaluated Johnny's case after he attempted to break into a woman's home, wrote that he was very concerned for the well-being of not only the community of, but that of the defendant. The report noted that Johnny suffered from some form of chemical dependency, mental health issues, and was transient. It stated, given this, Lewis will continue to be a threat to any community he may reside.
42:25 Speaker 01 That's a pretty serious statement.
42:28 Speaker 00 So then it makes it even more perplexing when just six weeks later, on September 21st, 2012, Johnny was released from jail. Apparently, the jail was overcrowded and he was given hundreds of days credit for time served in good behavior, as reported by People.
42:46 Speaker 01 Pretty lucky.
42:47 Speaker 00 Yeah, I know California has experienced a lot of overcrowding, but that's a lot of...
42:55 Speaker 00 Credit for good behavior and time served and all of that. Two years down to six weeks.
43:02 Speaker 01 And is that really good for him? Is that really good for the community?
43:05 Speaker 00 Well, according to this probation officer, no, it's not. That night, he checked into the Los Feliz Hotel in Atwater Village. On September 23rd, Johnny's father took him shopping for new clothes and took him to pick up his motorcycle. Johnny asked his dad to contact Kathy Davis at the Riders Villa to see if there was a room available. Kathy agreed to take him and even promised Johnny could stay in his former room. Michael Lewis hoped the calming influence of the Riders Villa would help his son. He told LA Magazine, "It didn't occur to me to say, oh, by the way, he was having problems. I thought, this is a place he was familiar with and they will give him a lot of love."
43:51 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think he's hoping like, well, my son goes here, this will ground him. This will be something that he feels safe and maybe he can reconnect with himself.
44:01 Speaker 00 Yeah, I think Johnny told him he planned to stay there and pull himself together. But you can also hear his dad saying, what I'm sure is after the fact of the tragedy that is about to occur. He didn't even think to tell them.
44:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:17 Speaker 00 Of the, the issues that he was having.
44:22 Speaker 00 Johnny moved in on Monday, September 24th, 2012. Michael called him on the 25th to check on him. He was agitated, telling his dad, "I'm busy, what do you want?" Johnny eventually calmed down and told his dad they would talk later. But this was their last conversation. On September 26th, 2012, Johnny was walking in the neighborhood and approached Kathy Davis's neighbor, Dan Blackburn, a former NBC newsman. Johnny introduced himself and said, "Hi, I'm John, your new neighbor." Blackburn described Johnny as bedraggled. For the past 15 minutes, he had watched as Johnny, who was wearing just jeans and red shoes,
45:07 Speaker 00 paced up and down the sidewalk. He was covered in sweat by the time he got to the door. Bedraggled. I don't even know if I've ever heard of that description before. Blackburn replied, "Nice to meet you, John." They stood across from each other for a moment. Before John walked away abruptly, Blackburn went back to his morning routine, not thinking too much of this unusual interaction. That morning, a painter, who was asked to remain anonymous, was working on the deck of the Blackburn home, which overlooked the writer's villa. About 30 minutes later, Blackburn heard his wife Gloria calling for him. He ran outside and found Johnny on top of the painter, beating him with his fists.
45:51 Speaker 00 The painter was covered in blood. Blackburn stepped in, grabbing Johnny by the shoulder and shouting at him to stop. Johnny jumped to his feet and hit Blackburn in the eye, causing him to fall to the ground. Blackburn, his wife, and the painter struggled with Johnny. He had what felt like superhuman strength and didn't seem to feel any pain. He didn't flinch when Blackburn punched him in the temple.
46:18 Speaker 01 That's shocking.
46:20 Speaker 00 Yeah, this Blackburn guy told The Hollywood Reporter that it was like hitting him with a flyswatter, like a love tap.
46:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
46:28 Speaker 00 He just kept on going. Blackburn then hit Johnny with a chair, which stunned him enough for the three to flee into the house. But when they tried to shut the front door, Johnny stuck his arm through the opening. They pushed their combined weight on the door, slamming it four times until Johnny withdrew his arm. They barricaded themselves inside and called the police. All right, this is a very scary situation.
46:55 Speaker 01 It really is.
46:56 Speaker 00 Now, Johnny Lewis was not a big guy.
47:00 Speaker 01 No, he was not.
47:01 Speaker 00 He was in good shape. You know, on the show Sons of Anarchy, he played a fighter, but you know, it wasn't like he was this big hulking guy. He wasn't Jack Reacher. He was a little wiry guy, but he might've been strong. But when somebody says it was like this guy had superhuman strength. I mean, what's the first thing that comes to your mind?
47:22 Speaker 01 Well, you say, what was he on?
47:23 Speaker 00 Yeah, he's on something, right? He's got to be. So these three people were lucky enough to get away from him. They barricaded themselves inside the house. From the window Blackburn saw Johnny leap over their fence around the deck and jump on the wooden fence surrounding Catherine Davis's house. He disappeared into the villa. The police responded within minutes and found Johnny's body in the middle of the driveway. His eye socket was caved in and his skull was cracked. Authorities later determined he fell from the patio or the roof, which was 15 feet above the ground. He died instantly.
48:06 Speaker 01 Wow.
48:07 Speaker 00 So police got there pretty quickly. As you can imagine, they would.
48:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
48:11 Speaker 00 Right after getting the call. I mean, the scene that they find is pretty gruesome. You know, here's this young man who they determine, you know, jumped off of a 15-foot roof or balcony, whichever one it was, died instantly and he's got some pretty horrific injuries. But it was about to get worse. The police entered the house. The first floor was perfectly clean with nothing disturbed. On the second floor, investigators had to step over broken glass before they entered a large bedroom in the southwest corner of the house where Johnny was staying. Inside was a rusty hammer with blood on it. Officers followed
48:56 Speaker 00 what they've called a trail of destruction to the attached bedroom and they found a dead cat in the shower. It was covered in blood and its skull was bashed in. Investigators later determined Johnny most likely killed the cat with his bare hand.
49:12 Speaker 01 Oh, that's so sick.
49:14 Speaker 00 It is. And we know, you know, how much our listeners love their animals, their dogs, their cats. So that type of stuff is, is very hard to talk about as are murders. But, you know, dogs and cats, for the most part, give, they're completely defenseless.
49:33 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, of course.
49:35 Speaker 00 Kathy Davis's bedroom was across the hall. There was blood on her bed frame, wall, table and chair. Her body was on the floor next to her bed. She had been beaten and strangled to death. According to the official coroner's report. Blunt force trauma fractured her entire skull and obliterated the left side of her face, leaving her brain exposed. Brain and tissue matter seen on the floor around her. Her face is covered in blood. Her nose is split down the middle and her upper jaw is split open.
50:13 Speaker 01 Oh, that's horrific.
50:14 Speaker 00 Yeah. Go back to what we said about Kathy Davis. I mean, this is a woman who by all accounts was loved by, you know, everyone who met her.
50:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
50:26 Speaker 00 She seemingly went out of her way to help people. No, she was getting money for renting out her rooms, but it was said she was a various generous person who looked after people and, and to describe her murder in this fashion. I mean, it's gruesome.
50:43 Speaker 01 And you know, and to think that she just allowed Johnny back in, you know, she was kind, let Johnny come back in. Not only did she let Johnny come back in, she made sure Johnny had his old room back.
50:55 Speaker 00 Kathy also had four small puncture wounds on her left cheek, presumably from a mechanical pencil found beside her body. I mean, I, I don't even know how to comprehend all of the different wounds. I mean, obviously she was beaten with something.
51:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
51:17 Speaker 00 In a very ferocious way.
51:22 Speaker 01 Rusty hammer.
51:24 Speaker 00 Or, yeah, most likely the rusty hammer, but to take a mechanical pencil and stab somebody in the face with it four times. I mean, why? What are you accomplishing with that?
51:36 Speaker 01 Is there some symbolic thing for the killer to do that?
51:40 Speaker 00 Investigators believe that minutes after Johnny introduced himself to neighbor Dan Blackburn, he had a confrontation with Kathy Davis in her room. No one knows exactly what happened, but one rumor is that Johnny turned off the electricity the night before and Kathy confronted him and gave him a warning not to do it again. Johnny then punched her and strangled her with his bare hands. And I think Gibbs, This rumor kind of goes back to him and his sensitivity to light. Right? We mentioned it before he would, you know, turn off the fuse box.
52:17 Speaker 01 Yeah.
52:18 Speaker 00 And it's thought that that's kind of exactly what happened. And once she said, hey, you can't do that, he lost it. According to LA Magazine, it was unclear if he used the hammer to kill her, but the beating was so severe. Investigators believed he may have stomped on her skull.
52:38 Speaker 01 Wow, so brutal.
52:40 Speaker 00 He then killed the cat, went outside and attacked the painter. When he fled back to the mansion, he ascended to the upper patio or the roof. It's unknown if he jumped or fell, but investigators believed his death was accidental.
52:56 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'm kind of thinking he fell.
52:58 Speaker 00 Yeah, I don't know. I don't, I don't know how they can determine that. I, I think you could also make some valid points for, you know, him taking his life at that point.
53:09 Speaker 01 Sure.
53:10 Speaker 00 Realizing what he had done and, you know, what was going to happen to him. But as you can imagine, the story spread quickly and many celebrities reacted to the tragedy on social media. A source told people, I'm shocked by this. He was always pretty quiet. The only times I saw him angry is with regards to his character on the show. I know at the end he got really annoyed with the storyline. He felt like his character was becoming a weekly joke and he didn't like it. Sons of Anarchy creator Kurt Sutter wrote on his website, per people, "It was a tragic end for an extremely talented guy who unfortunately had lost his way. I wish I could say that I was shocked by the events last night, but I was not.
53:55 Speaker 00 I'm deeply sorry that an innocent life had to be thrown into his destructive path."
54:01 Speaker 01 So he's being pretty honest, right? He's saying he's not shocked.
54:05 Speaker 00 But why is he not shocked? I mean, had he seen some of Johnny's behaviors afterwards? Because the motorcycle accident happened after the show ended, right?
54:17 Speaker 01 It did.
54:17 Speaker 00 Or his, his time on the show. Ended. So I'm, there wasn't a lot of context around it. But I'm curious as to why he said he was not shocked.
54:29 Speaker 01 And he talks about this destructive path that he was on.
54:32 Speaker 00 So he must have either seen some of it or just learned about it through family, friends, whatever. At a press conference the following day, an LAPD representative said there was an altercation between Lewis and Davis, but did not provide further details at that time. Authorities said no one else was in the house at the time of the murder and Johnny was believed to be the only suspect.
54:58 Speaker 01 Thank goodness there was nobody else at the house because I don't know if it would have turned out well for them.
55:02 Speaker 00 No, I, I don't think he would have stopped with just Kathy Davis. I think, you know, him attacking the painter is, is kind of proof of that. The police couldn't confirm if drugs or alcohol played a part in the murder. An LAPD spokesman said at the time, it's a terrible tragedy as far as we're concerned, and we're digging into the bottom of it. After the news came out, one theory was that Johnny was on bath salts, a designer drug that normally contains an amphetamine like chemical called MDPV.
55:36 Speaker 01 If that was the case, that could help explain why he was acting the way he was acting.
55:40 Speaker 00 Well, if you remember, a lot of the things that happened around that time were blamed on bath salts. Even LA Magazine reported that the drug was reportedly the cause behind several attacks around the country, including the Florida cannibal incident. And I believe that might be the one where the guy tried to eat the other guy's face off.
56:02 Speaker 01 Yes, I think you're right.
56:03 Speaker 00 The New York Daily News proposed the possibility of another designer drug called Smiles that was linked to a series of suicides and overdoses. That one I am not familiar with, never heard of it.
56:17 Speaker 01 No.
56:18 Speaker 00 No, but I'm sure there's a lot of designer drugs I've never heard of.
56:21 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think you stay pretty.
56:24 Speaker 00 Clear.
56:25 Speaker 01 Clear of those things.
56:26 Speaker 00 Of all drugs, especially designer drugs, because those cost a lot, I'm assuming. Johnny's former attorney, Jonathan Mandel, spoke out after his death. He told E News, I did recommend in both of his cases that he get a treatment option. He clearly had delusions. And, you know, I do go back to that, him firing his attorney.
56:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
56:47 Speaker 00 You know, we talked about it, right? His attorney was going down the path of trying to get him treatment instead of jail time. Obviously Johnny Lewis didn't want that, didn't think he needed that, or something along those lines, because he fired his attorney and represented himself. Now, for some strange reason, it seemed to work out pretty well for him, even though he got sentenced to almost two years, he did like six weeks in jail.
57:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, he got lucky because of the overcrowded prisons.
57:22 Speaker 00 Mandel was not specific about Johnny's alleged delusions, but added that he declined to seek professional help. He said he didn't know the cause of Johnny's psychosis. Johnny's autopsy report was released on November 29th, 2012. The public was shocked to learn that he didn't have any drugs or alcohol in his system at the time of his death, not even his prescribed antipsychotic medication.
57:51 Speaker 01 Wow.
57:52 Speaker 00 Well, I think the drugs and alcohol is shocking because you think, you know, you're eliminating that as the, the, the reason for this unbelievably violent outburst, right? But is it shocking that his prescribed antipsychotic medication was not in his system? Because to me, that could have played a part in why he did what he did.
58:21 Speaker 01 Yeah, it could have stopped him if he took the prescribed medicine, right?
58:24 Speaker 00 Right, but he's not taking it.
58:25 Speaker 01 Right.
58:26 Speaker 00 And he had a history of that as we went through. The report noted that Lewis had nail marks on both sides of his neck and suffered partial strangulation. And I thought that was very strange, almost as if he tried to strangle himself or someone else did. Maybe, maybe Kathy tried to put up a fight and grabbed him by the neck.
58:51 Speaker 01 Maybe, or when he was fighting the neighbors.
58:54 Speaker 00 Yeah, there wasn't a lot about it. His death was ruled accidental because there was no evidence Johnny was pushed or attempted to kill himself. So Gibbs, as we wrap up this case, it's over a decade later, but there still are a lot of questions about this one. The main one being what caused Johnny Lewis's violent behavior that day? According to the reporting by LA Magazine, his family believes he suffered a traumatic brain injury that affected his behavior.
59:25 Speaker 01 That's kind of where I lean because if there was no drugs in his system at the time of his death, it makes me feel like there probably had to be something wrong with his brain.
59:36 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, I, I lean that way just because of the, the stark contrast of what we know about his life before the motorcycle accident and after.
59:48 Speaker 01 Yeah.
59:49 Speaker 00 I mean, it seems to be night and day to me. And I don't know what else would have caused that. If he's not on drugs, then it's gotta be some type of brain injury resulting from the motorcycle accident. If there was no motorcycle accident, then you know, you'd maybe be thinking other types of mental health issues. And maybe some of those did develop, but were also brought on by the motorcycle accident.
1:00:21 Speaker 01 I wonder if the family chose not to have science.
1:00:25 Speaker 00 Look into his brain and like some of the athletes have done.
1:00:30 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:00:30 Speaker 00 Where they've dissected the brain and can tell that, you know, yes, they suffered from CTE or this or that. Yeah. I think as a family, that's a tough decision to make. But, you know, another question that remains is, could the murder of a beloved community member have been avoided? And if so, what measures could have been taken to keep Johnny Lewis in the community safe? And I think that all goes back to, you know, someone making that report saying, this guy's dangerous. He's dangerous to anyone in any community where he resides. Yeah. I think that's what the person said.
1:01:13 Speaker 01 I think he did.
1:01:13 Speaker 00 And he turned out to be pretty prophetic with that. But I think you have to look at it a couple of different ways. You know, his attorney really thought he needed treatment. And I believe that was correct. But Johnny wasn't having it. So much so that he fired the guy.
1:01:33 Speaker 01 If you're not going to take the treatment, and if you're not going to take your medication, things aren't going to go well.
1:01:40 Speaker 00 No, but could someone have stepped in and forced him into a treatment situation where they made sure that you took your meds, right? There are some that do.
1:01:53 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:01:54 Speaker 00 And I think that's a question that that some people have, you know, was he let down in that area? I'm not trying to make excuses for him because what he did was horrible. But you have to look at all the factors.
1:02:07 Speaker 01 I mean, you can say he was let down. And because of that, we ended up having the tragedy that we had in Kathy.
1:02:16 Speaker 00 Yeah. I mean, and you could see how he spiraled, right? Felony, maybe a little bigger felony.
1:02:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:02:24 Speaker 00 And then it just kept going and going until it ultimately, you know, culminated in the murder of this beloved woman. But it's just, it's a tragedy all the way around. I don't think this guy, you know, was in the same vein of a serial killer, but could he have had some of the same issues that we've seen? In serial killers and some of our episodes, you know, his maybe just happened later in life, you know, this damage to the frontal lobe, did it cause him to become violent?
1:02:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:02:59 Speaker 00 I don't know. I don't know how else you explain it, Gibbs.
1:03:04 Speaker 01 I don't either. It's such a big shift from how he was before the motorcycle accident to after.
1:03:11 Speaker 00 Yeah, it's like two different lives.
1:03:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:03:13 Speaker 00 It's like he had this life before, and then he had a much different life after the accident. But, you know, it's, it's a fascinating case. It's tragic and all that. But then you have the tie in with this, this show.
1:03:30 Speaker 01 Sure.
1:03:30 Speaker 00 A show that I happen to love. So I knew it was a case that, that I wanted to do. But that's it for our episode on Johnny Lewis. We got some voicemails, Gibbs. You want to check those out?
1:03:40 Speaker 01 Let's hear them.
1:03:41 Speaker 02 Hi, Mike and Gibby. I can't believe this is my first time calling your voicemail because I have been listening to you guys for over a year through so many different jobs, working at Amazon, 10 hours a day, on my way to work at the preschool that I work in now. I'm always listening to you guys. And first off, I just wanted to say, maybe could you guys please say happy birthday, Mirae? Because it was my birthday and I didn't really get to have a birthday party because I spent all my money on moving. And it's my first time moving out alone. I just turned 22. I was just wondering if you could say happy birthday. I'm probably the biggest fan you could ever have in your entire life. I love you guys. You're so hilarious. I love the way you talk about your families and your daughters because I didn't really get to have that growing up. And I hope that your family
1:04:25 Speaker 02 just knows how lucky they are to have you. God bless y'all. Keep your own time ticking and I will be listening to you for the rest of my day. Okay, bye. Also, I'm from Seattle.
1:04:36 Speaker 00 So, Mirae?
1:04:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:04:39 Speaker 00 Is that what you heard?
1:04:40 Speaker 01 Mirae?
1:04:41 Speaker 00 Mirae.
1:04:41 Speaker 01 I did.
1:04:42 Speaker 00 From Seattle.
1:04:43 Speaker 01 From Seattle.
1:04:44 Speaker 00 Reminded me so much of my daughters. She's right in between their eight, their two ages.
1:04:48 Speaker 01 Exactly.
1:04:49 Speaker 00 At 22. So, obviously, we are going to say happy birthday to you.
1:04:55 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:04:55 Speaker 00 And Gibby is going to sing a song.
1:04:57 Speaker 01 I am. I'm going to sing happy birthday to you after this commercial break.
1:05:04 Speaker 00 Happy birthday, happy birthday, happy, happy birthday to you.
1:05:13 Speaker 01 That's pretty good, Gibby.
1:05:16 Speaker 03 Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Emily from Washington. I just listened to your episode, William Leslie Arnold, and it was a really interesting one. But one of the things that stuck out to me was your, y'all's surprise around there being a prison newspaper. And I work in prison programming, and so I thought, oh, maybe I will tickle your brain even more with other programs, or maybe you've heard about them all before anyway. But at least in Washington, we have a whole bunch of dog programs. So some of them get trained inside, and then they get adopted out into the community, or others are trained for, like, service animals, and are like worth something like fifty or sixty thousand dollars. It's pretty incredible.
1:05:59 Speaker 03 But then there's also things like beekeeping, and caring for federally endangered species. They have turtles, they have, I think I just said butterflies, they've had frogs in the past, and they have a whole bunch of really cool programs. And I know some people might think you should just lock them up and throw away the key, but it, in reality, just keeps everyone safer, including the people who work in prisons, and the people who live there. And something like ninety-eight percent of them are going to come back to the community anyway. So I think it's definitely worth the investment, and you can see how much it makes a real big difference. So, anyway, I just wanted to share some of that with you. And there's, you know, so many other programs out there, too. But those are just
1:06:43 Speaker 03 a really quick, you know, sixty-second cap of them. So, thanks, team, both of y'all, and keep your own time ticking. Thanks. Bye.
1:06:52 Speaker 01 Hey, Bruno, what you doing today? Hey, you know what, Chuck? I'm going out, and I'm gonna work with some butterflies today. You know, caterpillars, you know, it's a good time.
1:07:02 Speaker 00 Beekeeping. Now, I know there are a lot of different programs in prison. I guess I didn't know there were some of those. The dog training one, we've heard about, because we actually had that in a couple of episodes.
1:07:13 Speaker 01 We did.
1:07:14 Speaker 00 But I don't know why I was so surprised that there was a prison newspaper.
1:07:20 Speaker 01 Yeah, me, too.
1:07:21 Speaker 00 Because I don't know what you're reading in there. Maybe you're getting the sports scores, or I don't, I have no idea.
1:07:28 Speaker 01 I mean, obviously, it's good to keep prisoners busy.
1:07:31 Speaker 00 Oh, absolutely. I don't have a problem with that.
1:07:33 Speaker 01 Kill sets and things like that.
1:07:35 Speaker 00 I think it's all good. All right, buddy. That is it for another episode of True Crime All the Time. So for Mike. And Gibby. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.
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