Pod Insights True Crime All The Time Long Island Serial Killer Part 4 About this episode The infamous Long Island Serial Killer case is one of the most disturbing and consequential serial murder investigations in American history. Rex Heuermann was arrested in Manhattan on July 13, 2023, and identified by authorities as the Long Island serial killer.
Join Mike and Gibby for the 4th and last part of the Long Island Serial Killer case as they examine newly identified victims, additional murder charges, key forensic evidence, the discovery of an alleged murder-planning document, and Heuermann's eventual guilty plea in 2026.
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1:49 Speaker 00 Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 503 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. As always, I'm Mike Ferguson and with me is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?
2:01 Speaker 01 One and only, the real Mike.
2:04 Speaker 00 You're the one, you're the one and only. Boy, you're fooling yourself today, aren't you?
2:07 Speaker 01 The real Gibby.
2:10 Speaker 00 Please stand up. All right, buddy. So we are coming to the final part, part four, on our Long Island serial killer case. Are you ready to get into it?
2:21 Speaker 01 I am.
2:22 Speaker 00 So in part three, we covered how a Suffolk County task force, right, identified the suspect as well as his arrest, his background. Now, in part four, we'll cover additional charges and evidence uncovered throughout the investigation and how prosecutors sought resolution and justice for the victims. On August 24th, 2023, authorities announced they had identified Jane Doe number seven, who was found on Tobey Beach in 2011, as 34-year-old Karen Vergata. As we mentioned in part two, Karen's severed legs were first found in a garbage bag on Fire Island.
3:02 Speaker 00 On April 20th, 1996, her skull was found over 20 miles away in 2011. That's a big gap.
3:11 Speaker 01 It is a big gap.
3:13 Speaker 00 Whew, 15 years later. At the time of her disappearance in February 1996, Karen was living in Manhattan and working as an escort. Her identity was confirmed in October 2022, but authorities first wanted to contact her family and initiate a confidential grand jury investigation. Authorities didn't say at the time of the announcement whether or not Karen was linked to Rex Hureman. And, you know, I get it, the grand jury investigation is important, but man, you really need to contact the family.
3:50 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:51 Speaker 00 And go through, you know, all of that. At the news conference, DA Raymond Tierney also said authorities believe that they would soon identify three more victims, the Asian male and the woman and her daughter, who were found in April 2011. Those identifications would be made by the FBI using genetic genealogy. Tierney also revealed that the distinctive belt with the initials WH or HM, which was first shown to the public in 2020, was used to bind Maureen Brainerd-Barnes' remains. WH are the initials of Rex Hureman's father.
4:35 Speaker 01 There we have it.
4:37 Speaker 00 You know, it's it's amazing work, right? Obviously, if you think about it now, the fact that they had DNA and all that helps, but you know, the burner phones tracing all of this evidence, it's a lot of work, but it's also really good police work.
4:54 Speaker 01 It is. Yeah, they did a really good job getting to the point where they're at.
4:59 Speaker 00 Yeah. On August 28, 2023, CBS reported that two women in the Suffolk County Jail claimed they had violent and aggressive encounters with human over a decade ago. Since his arrest, the Suffolk County Human Trafficking Unit had been interviewing sex workers and showing his picture to women. Five women had come forward with helpful information.
5:26 Speaker 01 Not surprised.
5:27 Speaker 00 I'm not surprised at all because we're talking about a man here and he hasn't been convicted in the story, right? Yeah, as we go through it, but we're talking about a man who killed a large number of women and also I think hunted or tried to set up encounters, had encounters probably with people in where in which maybe there was violence, but he didn't kill them. But when you you do that much and interact that much with sex workers over a long period of time, then there's bound to be people who remember you.
6:12 Speaker 01 Of course, and he's not somebody you're not going to remember either, right?
6:15 Speaker 00 No, six, four, great big dude.
6:17 Speaker 01 Yeah, ogre looking.
6:19 Speaker 00 Ugly as shit.
6:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:22 Speaker 00 Ogre, the ogre one is the one that really cracks me up.
6:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:25 Speaker 00 It really does. The following month, it was reported that investigators were looking into Hureman in connection with the death of 29-year-old Carmen Vargas, who was killed in 1989 in Freeport, about seven miles west of Hureman's home in Massapequa. At a court hearing on September 27, 2023, prosecutors said that DNA from Hureman's cheek swab matched the DNA from the pizza box, linking him to a hair found on one of the victims. Defense Attorney Michael Brown told CBS, "When asked about Hureman's mood and demeanor, well, he's
7:07 Speaker 00 somebody who has from the beginning said he's not guilty. I made it a point to tell him, just get through this, Rex. Get to the point where we can go to trial and don't show emotion. He's a fellow who was working, has never been arrested, has a wife and children." Okay, those are all facts. I don't know what they mean in relation to whether or not he's guilty of these crimes. On January 16, 2024, Rex Hureman was indicted for the death of a fourth victim, Maureen Brainerd Barnes. And you kind of felt like it was just a matter of time.
7:42 Speaker 01 Yeah, that they were gonna get him on that one.
7:43 Speaker 00 Yeah. I mean, you know, they were working hard to link it. He was linked to the murder via DNA from a female hair found in the buckle of a belt used to bind Maureen's ankles, feet, and legs. The odds were eight trillion to one that the hair matched Asa Ellerip or Victoria Hureman. Authorities followed Victoria on a train and watched her throw out a drink. Again, I feel like that would be, I don't want to say fun, because I don't know that police work is fun, but in the grand scheme of things, you know, it's like a spy movie, right? You're following someone, you're waiting for them to discard something
8:28 Speaker 00 that you think might have DNA on it. Okay.
8:31 Speaker 01 It's not like you can go up and ask them at that time, because you're trying to build a case. So you kind of got to be, you know, secretive about it.
8:38 Speaker 00 Well, if they know you're there, they're probably not going to throw anything away that they think they might have left their DNA on.
8:44 Speaker 01 But, I mean, eight trillion to one?
8:47 Speaker 00 That's what we're used to hearing, right? These numbers in the trillions. It's really to the exclusion of all others at that point. Prosecutors believed all hair transfers were made from Hureman to the victims. His family was out of town during the murders of the Gilgo Beach Four. So I think, you know, when you go back to us talking in the last episode about, you know, his wife's hair or, you know, things like that being found. Well, they knew that she wasn't a part of the murders, right? She wasn't even anywhere near town. He was committing these murders while his wife and kids were away.
9:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:31 Speaker 00 Ace's attorney, Robert Macedonio, told the media, Asa Ellerup and her children were not involved, not even in the jurisdiction when these murders took place. In March 2024, Hureman's former neighbor, Etienne Devilliers, I don't know why that's, it's fun to say, but I'm also messing it up almost every time.
9:53 Speaker 01 Felt like you nailed it that time.
9:54 Speaker 00 I don't even know if that's how you say it, but it's fun. Said that Asa told him she didn't think Rex was guilty.
10:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, but why wouldn't she? She's going to say that because if she thinks he's guilty, then she's like, I've, I've been with this monster all this time.
10:11 Speaker 00 Yeah. No, it doesn't surprise me because I don't know that he was a monster to her.
10:17 Speaker 01 Yeah.
10:18 Speaker 00 Now, there are a lot of killers who treat their significant other horribly, right? They're perpetrators of physical, emotional abuse, things like that. I'm not sure that this guy was. So I think in a case like that, wife, children, they're even more shocked that he could be involved in all of this.
10:42 Speaker 01 And you know, and when they were home, he probably was spending time with them. It was when they went away for the summer that he was, you know, doing these things.
10:53 Speaker 00 Yeah.
10:53 Speaker 01 And they weren't there, so they didn't know what he was doing. They just assumed he was probably working.
10:59 Speaker 00 CBS quoted De Villiers saying, "That house is a mess." And he was spending a fortune on hookers. I told her face to face and she said, "No, he wouldn't do that." I said, "Yes, he would." He was spending a fortune on call girls and wouldn't drop a dime on that house. I mean, people were really upset that he would not fix up this house, dude.
11:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
11:20 Speaker 00 And maybe even more upset once they found out that he was spending what money they thought should have been used to fix up this house on sex workers.
11:30 Speaker 01 Like, hey, you could have fixed that house up and made it look better in the neighborhood for all of us.
11:34 Speaker 00 Right, which would have benefited us, but you were selfish and wanted to spend all your money on sex workers. Oh, and by the way, you killed a number of those sex workers. Asa issued a statement at that time saying, "I will listen to all of the evidence and withhold judgment until the end of the trial. I have given Rex the benefit of the doubt as we all deserve." And I don't, I really don't blame her for that.
11:59 Speaker 01 No.
12:00 Speaker 00 I don't because, again, I think up until, you know, it's proven she believes that, you know, he's this hus- good husband, the person that, that she thinks she knows.
12:15 Speaker 01 I just can't see many wives, just, I think, I can see them walking into the, to the jail, you know, meeting their husband and saying, you know, "What's this about you hiring all these sex workers and this other stuff, you know? Tell me now. You better tell me the truth. I already know the truth, so go ahead and tell me the truth." You know, just kind of like getting into their face like an investigator would, but more.
12:44 Speaker 00 Yeah. Well, you scared me. I felt like you've done that before.
12:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
12:47 Speaker 00 Yeah. Like, you've literally delivered that line in a jail at some point.
12:51 Speaker 01 I just feel like, you know, a wife would not just. He's innocent. I, you know, I'm sure she, she had to have a conversation with him.
12:59 Speaker 00 Yeah, but what's he gonna say? Yeah, I did all that or no, honey, you know me, I would have never done that. You'll see at trial, all the evidence is gonna come out. I have to imagine, although I don't know, but I have to imagine that he probably said, you know, something like that. Ace's attorney also said, you can go forward with the divorce and still not believe that your spouse of 27 years is capable of being a serial killer. And that's the thing that I think we have to keep in mind, right? It's not like they'd been married two or three years.
13:31 Speaker 01 No.
13:31 Speaker 00 27 years is a long time.
13:33 Speaker 01 It is.
13:34 Speaker 00 I said it, I just had my 30 year anniversary. Do you know how shocked my wife and kids would be if it came out that I was a serial killer?
13:43 Speaker 01 Oh, they would be very shocked.
13:45 Speaker 00 Yeah, if it came out that you were, my wife would be like, I told you that, I told you that years ago. And she has told me that a number of times. I think Gibby is a serial killer.
13:55 Speaker 01 The fact that she keeps telling you again and again, I have to talk to her about that.
13:58 Speaker 00 But, you know, 30 years is a long time to be married. And again, I, I think you kind of hit on it, but you know, what does that say about you?
14:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
14:09 Speaker 00 Or what do you think in your mind that's, that people are gonna think about me? I've stayed with this man for all these years who may be a killer. If it, if it turns out to be true, well, what are they gonna say about me?
14:23 Speaker 01 Yeah, absolutely. You don't want to believe it to be true because it changes everything you ever knew.
14:28 Speaker 00 Yeah, and it's gonna change your life, right? Dramatically. It appears that Hureman's defense would focus on corrupt former police chief James Burke. At a hearing in April 2024, defense attorney Michael Brown suggested the real killer might have eluded arrest when Burke was running the investigation. He even suggested Burke might have been involved in the four murders. He said there were numerous leads alluding to Burke's involvement, but he didn't offer more details. Okay, I think that's a good defense tactic, right?
15:02 Speaker 01 Sure.
15:03 Speaker 00 I'm, I'm casting like a little bit of doubt. I don't have any proof. I'm, I can't give you anything, but. You know, we don't know that it wasn't this guy.
15:13 Speaker 01 Yeah, cuz you know, he was into some strange things.
15:16 Speaker 00 After the hearing, Brown referred to reporting from the Washington Post that suggested in 2021, investigators focused on a retired police officer who lived near Hureman and planned to arrest him. Now, this was disputed by former DA Tim Seeny. However, bringing up Burke's corruption would allow Brown to question how evidence was obtained and handled, which could lead to reasonable doubt at trial. And I have always said it, but you're right, trials are like a chess match. Each side's making moves and countering moves and you know, things which on the surface may not seem to make a lot of sense.
15:59 Speaker 00 Have, do make sense once you learn the, the overarching goal.
16:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
16:06 Speaker 00 I guess, for lack of a better term.
16:08 Speaker 01 Kind of like that show, The Lincoln Lawyer.
16:10 Speaker 00 Kind of, which is a great show.
16:12 Speaker 01 It really is.
16:13 Speaker 00 You turned me on to that and I appreciate it. James Burke's lawyer, James O'Work, said that Brown was exploiting a giant conspiracy theory. And Jimmy Burke is a lot of things, some of them are less than admirable, but he's not a killer. That same month, investigators used cadaver dogs to search a remote wooded section of Manorville, close to where partial remains were found in the early 2000s. Neither of the Manorville victims had been linked to Rex and officials wouldn't say what prompted the search. But on June 6, 2024, Rex was charged with two more murders.
16:54 Speaker 00 The 1993 murder of Sandra Castillo and the 2003 murder of Jessica Taylor. Now Castillo's death had not been previously linked to the Gilgo Beach serial killings. Sandra was from Trinidad and Tobago, but was living in New York City when she disappeared. On November 20th, 1993, two hunters near Old Fish Cove Road in North Sea, a Hamlet, uh, Hamlet.
17:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
17:26 Speaker 00 I almost said, uh.
17:27 Speaker 01 Hamnet?
17:28 Speaker 00 I'm, I don't know what I said.
17:29 Speaker 01 You're thinking of.
17:30 Speaker 00 Didn't come out.
17:31 Speaker 01 You're, you're thinking of Hamlet's son, Hamnet.
17:35 Speaker 00 But it's a hamlet in Southampton. They found her remains. This is about an hour east of Gilgo Beach. Sandra was found lying on her back with her arms outstretched over her head. There were indications of sexual assault and she had multiple sharp force injuries. She was last seen the day before November 19th. Now, her death was originally linked to convicted killer John Bitroff, who authorities mentioned as a potential suspect, right? In the Gilgo Beach killings back in 2017, we talked about him in a previous episode. But the three male hairs found on Sandra's body did not match Bitrol.
18:19 Speaker 00 And we actually talk about it a lot. You know, when you have convicted killers, known killers, especially serial killers, does it not make sense to try to link some unsolved cases to these individuals? You already know they're capable of murder.
18:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
18:38 Speaker 00 So I think it happens quite a bit. The DNA just kind of here disproved that it was Bitrol. The lab determined that 99.96 of the North American population could be excluded as a contributor of the male hair found on Castilla. But Rex Hurnman was not a part of the group that could be excluded.
19:02 Speaker 01 Oh, there you go. You know, you can lock him in on that.
19:04 Speaker 00 Yeah, now it is a, it is a far cry from the number that we talked about. The six or the eight trillion to one.
19:11 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
19:12 Speaker 00 99.96% of the North American population is a lot of people. There are what? 330 or 340 million now? I don't know what the number is now.
19:25 Speaker 01 There were 30 million in Canada, so.
19:28 Speaker 00 Oh, that's right. You got to include Canada.
19:31 Speaker 01 Yeah, right. Close to 400 million.
19:33 Speaker 00 That's all there is in all of Canada?
19:35 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think it's only like thirty some million. I don't know.
19:38 Speaker 00 Really?
19:38 Speaker 01 Not that much, yeah.
19:39 Speaker 00 That doesn't seem right. Canada's huge.
19:41 Speaker 01 Well, it's huge. It's got a lot of land.
19:43 Speaker 00 It does, right? I know it's densely, sparsely populated in certain sections, but thirty million.
19:50 Speaker 01 Hmm, could I be off?
19:52 Speaker 00 I think you could be. I don't know what the number is. You could be spot on. You do spend a lot of time in Canada, so I'm surprised you don't know the answer. So much so that I think you're getting free healthcare at this point.
20:06 Speaker 00 Which they might want to look into.
20:08 Speaker 01 They probably want me to pay some taxes when I cross that border.
20:10 Speaker 00 Exactly. But it's still, it's still a really high percent, right? That he, the hair belongs to him.
20:19 Speaker 01 Right.
20:20 Speaker 00 But if you're a defense attorney, you can still argue that it's, there's, there's point zero four percent. It's not him.
20:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, you can hang on to whatever you want to.
20:29 Speaker 00 Yep.
20:30 Speaker 01 I feel like, like, what was that, the show we watched? I don't know if it was Seinfeld, but it was like, but there's still a chance, you know?
20:38 Speaker 00 So you're telling me there's a chance?
20:39 Speaker 01 Yes, yeah.
20:41 Speaker 00 DNA evidence from Sandra's case was compared to DNA from the Gilgo case in 2014. Another lab independently confirmed the DNA testing. A male hair was found on a surgical drain under Jessica's body. That hair was tested in 2023. And once again, ninety nine point nine six percent of the northern, North American population could be excluded. Ex, but not Rex Herman.
21:12 Speaker 01 I mean, I think, you know, prosecutors are ecstatic, you know, they're like, okay, another slam dunk. We already know what the defense is going to come back and say. You know, they're going to try to play on this point zero four percent, but we're not concerned.
21:27 Speaker 00 No, because. Okay. Look at it as one case, right? All this huge percentage is excluded. He's not.
21:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
21:38 Speaker 00 But then you have another body and then you have one case that's eight trillion to one. And then you, you know, you have all these that are stacking up. So it's not just one. So now what's the, what are the odds? That he can't be excluded from all of these different ones?
21:56 Speaker 01 It's kind of compounded against him.
21:58 Speaker 00 It goes up exponentially, right? The, the idea that it, that it is him. Also Rex worked in the same area as Jessica at the time of her murder. He was also in Midtown on July 25th, 2003, the day she disappeared. He also would have been in possession of a vehicle matching the description from a witness at the scene by the dump site. So now let's, what are the odds that he can't be excluded? He's in the same vicinity from where she disappeared. And he's also in possession of a vehicle. The numbers get crazy.
22:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's starting to stack up even more and more.
22:41 Speaker 00 At a certain point that, how could it not be him? Right? Prosecutors noted that Hureman accessed the Newsday article titled, "Cop Seek Help in IDing Manorville Body About the Discovery of Jessica's Remains." After Jessica's body was found, he allegedly tried to cover up an internet search for a new truck, despite the fact that his vehicle was just over a year old.
23:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, but he probably said, I gotta get rid of this thing cuz they.
23:13 Speaker 00 Somebody might, somebody might have seen me.
23:15 Speaker 01 Yeah.
23:15 Speaker 00 The latest indictment also revealed that Hureman kept a planning document that was described as a blueprint for murder. The document was found on one of 350 electronic devices seized from his home. It was created in 2000 and modified over several years.
23:35 Speaker 01 I mean, a playbook, really.
23:37 Speaker 00 Now I feel like I own a lot of electronic devices. 350 is a boatload.
23:44 Speaker 01 Yeah, you have, are you counting all your little tiny ones that you use?
23:47 Speaker 00 No.
23:48 Speaker 01 Okay, but you do have a lot.
23:50 Speaker 00 Yeah, now, he also had like 300 guns, so I don't know what's going on with this dude. He won't fix up his house, but he's got a vault with 300 guns and he has 350 electronic devices.
24:02 Speaker 01 But to, you know, to have something on there that basically is the blueprint for a murder.
24:09 Speaker 00 And to revise it over the, the years.
24:13 Speaker 00 It's not going to be good evidence, it's going to be good evidence against you, it's not going to be good for you.
24:17 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's not going to bode well for him.
24:19 Speaker 00 The document contained instructions for how to select and kill victims and dispose of bodies. It contained headings such as supplies, problems, with DNA listed as the top item under the problems heading.
24:36 Speaker 01 Now, isn't that funny though, what he had listed as the top problem is the problem.
24:42 Speaker 00 Turned out to be his top problem.
24:43 Speaker 01 Yeah.
24:44 Speaker 00 Well, I mean, he, I don't think he was a dummy. I think he was a fairly intelligent guy, so he knew that DNA was probably the, the thing that he really needed to worry about the most. My thought is though, you can take all the precautions in the world, but as we talked about earlier, how do you know that one of your wife's hairs is clinging to your coat or your pants or something like that and is going to get transferred?
25:15 Speaker 01 Yeah, unless you're stripping down naked, shaving every piece of hair off of your body.
25:19 Speaker 00 Oh, this is a disturbing image that I now have in my head. I wish you wouldn't, and you're acting like a, like an ape or something, I don't, please don't do that.
25:28 Speaker 01 And then go through some type of machine that washes you and blow dries you off, and then put on a, like the hazmat suit, and then go out and do your business in a car that was never yours, that nobody you knew ever was in it.
25:42 Speaker 00 Yeah, where are you getting this machine from? Do you have one of these machines?
25:47 Speaker 01 I'm just saying that it's going to be almost impossible.
25:51 Speaker 00 Yeah, I think it's a lot harder than people think. I really do, which is a good thing. Because we don't want these people to get away with these crimes. The supply list included items such as booties, lie, acid, and a police scanner.
26:08 Speaker 01 Okay.
26:10 Speaker 00 I get it. Some people are list makers. My wife is a list maker.
26:15 Speaker 01 She is.
26:16 Speaker 00 But she's also not a serial killer, so no harm, no foul. If you are a serial killer, probably not a great idea to keep this evidence, this type of evidence, just lying around. But my thought is, and I have the same with a lot of killers, almost every killer, I just don't think they think they're gonna get caught.
26:36 Speaker 01 No, I don't think so either. But, I mean, if anything, at least, you know, like, change the words up, like, put the the last letter of the word at first and, you know.
26:47 Speaker 00 Oh, yeah, because nobody could crack that code at the FBI. They have people that literally do this for a living. They can't crack that simple.
26:56 Speaker 01 They're like, what is this word? We don't know.
27:00 Speaker 00 This is like the Zodiac cipher. We're never gonna figure this out. What are you thinking? There was a section titled Body Prep, which contained steps to clean and dismember bodies. And the packaging for, of bodies for transport. There were notes about removing tattoos and other identifying marks.
27:23 Speaker 01 And we know he removed.
27:25 Speaker 00 At least one.
27:26 Speaker 01 At least one.
27:26 Speaker 00 At least one we know of. But, you know, this is so specific, Gibbs. I mean, this, it's not like you could even argue that this is a list that you were gonna go buy for some construction work or a camping trip or something like that. You were literally talking about cleaning or how to clean and dismember bodies.
27:50 Speaker 01 And, you know, they're saying it's getting updated throughout time.
27:54 Speaker 00 Sure.
27:54 Speaker 01 Okay, I mean, maybe, I don't know if they can. Can they go back and see when it was updated and see if it correlates with?
28:01 Speaker 00 Maybe.
28:01 Speaker 01 You know, okay, so you changed your list here because you came across something new with this victim. And you want to make sure the next victim, you were prepared.
28:10 Speaker 00 Yeah, it's entirely possible.
28:14 Speaker 00 Another section titled post-event listed tasks such as burning gloves, disposing of pictures, changing car tires and setting up an alibi. I mean, this guy, you know, you might as well just hand this thing to the jury and say, convict me now.
28:31 Speaker 01 Yeah, here's everything I did.
28:35 Speaker 00 The pre-prep section included steps such as checking the weather, setting up staging area and checking an area for surveillance cameras. You're also really ramping up the premeditation here.
28:50 Speaker 01 Oh, for sure.
28:50 Speaker 00 You're not going to be able to argue that this was a spur of the moment, heat of the moment act when you're checking for surveillance cameras and all that.
29:01 Speaker 01 I mean, it seems like he's being really thorough.
29:03 Speaker 00 Well, again, he's an architect.
29:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
29:05 Speaker 00 I think they're very detail oriented. This reminds me of somebody in a profession like that. The prep section outlined tasks such as building a table with a crossbar underneath to support heavier objects. The document had specific sites for disposal of physical evidence. Then there was this section, things to remember, and it included lessons learned from previous murders, such as the use of heavier rope since lighter ones broke under the stress of being tightened.
29:40 Speaker 01 I mean, as a prosecutor, I'm like, I'm liking this right here.
29:45 Speaker 00 Well, it might be part of the modifications.
29:47 Speaker 01 Yeah.
29:47 Speaker 00 Right? It's the after-action report or whatever you want to call it. He's going back and saying what went wrong.
29:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
29:58 Speaker 00 With previous encounters. The document had a note about the importance of sleep to avoid problems and to increase playtime, believed to be a reference to sexual mutilation and acts against victim.
30:14 Speaker 01 Make sure you get good quality sleep so you can not have any problems and increase your playtime. Wow.
30:21 Speaker 00 And problems was capitalized, so was the play and playtime. And I just wonder if problems, and I think they're trying to argue this, does refer to maybe not being able to.
30:39 Speaker 00 You know, get an erection? I, I don't know. I think that they're trying to make that, that argument.
30:45 Speaker 01 Sure.
30:46 Speaker 00 As, as maybe that being part of it. The document also referenced the 1996 book Mindhunter by John Douglas. Other books by the same author were found in Herman's house. I have all those books.
30:59 Speaker 01 They're right over there.
31:01 Speaker 00 Yep, they're right over here. And they're good. Right, John Douglas, famed FBI profiler.
31:10 Speaker 00 The show is also very good.
31:12 Speaker 01 Show is very good.
31:12 Speaker 00 I want it to come back.
31:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
31:15 Speaker 00 At a news conference announcing the charges, DEA Raymond Tierney said, "Herman was the lead suspect in the death of Valerie Mack, "whose remains were found near Jessica's in Manorville."
31:27 Speaker 01 That's not really surprising, though.
31:29 Speaker 00 No, I have to believe that they thought for quite a while that he, he was involved in most, if not all of these suspected, you know, Gilgo slash Long Island serial killer cases.
31:44 Speaker 01 I mean, we did that unsolved this, you know, this, this week. And in my mind, I'm like, maybe he drove one down to Atlantic City.
31:54 Speaker 00 Yeah, maybe, we, we don't know. Tierney noted that an analysis of Herman's seized devices showed a significant collection of violent bondage, torture-related pornography dating back to 1994.
32:12 Speaker 01 Wow.
32:13 Speaker 00 And man, I don't know, I don't know what that does to somebody's brain.
32:19 Speaker 01 Not gonna be good. I mean, if you're looking at violent torture pornography, and that's what gets you off, how long can you look at that stuff before you need to actually experience?
32:31 Speaker 00 Well, and, and that's kind of what we've heard from a, a lot of serial killers. And you can see it in their backgrounds, right? They progress. It starts as fantasy. Maybe peeping, stealing underwear off the clothesline, you name it, right? It runs the gamut of what people do. But then, at a certain point, it stops being fantasy to them and, and they make it reality. Tierney said it's alleged that the pornographic images that were accessed by Hume are consistent with the crime scenes of both Sandra Castilla and Jessica Taylor.
33:14 Speaker 00 So not only is he watching all of this, when he does commit his murders, I hate to say it, but it's almost as if he's using this stuff as a playbook for, you know, what he's going to do.
33:28 Speaker 01 And these are his fantasies.
33:30 Speaker 00 Tierney said about the planning document, we allege that this document evidences the defendant's intent in committing the charged crimes, that his intent was specifically to locate these victims, hunt them down, and to bring them under his control and kill them. At the time of the charges, Asa Ellerup released a statement saying she had not met Rex in 1993 and did not believe he's capable of any other alleged crimes.
34:02 Speaker 01 I mean, what else is she gonna say at this, at this, at that time?
34:06 Speaker 00 Yeah. Um, I don't know. The statement said, today's indictment further illustrates that Asa Ellerup has no involvement in any of the alleged crimes that her estranged husband, Rex Hureman, has been charged with. Ms. Ellerup married Rex in 1996. She was not residing with him in the Massapequa Park domicile in 1993, the year Ms. Castilla was murdered. Moreover, according to the government, at the time of the death of Ms. Taylor, Ms. Ellerup was once again not in this jurisdiction.
34:43 Speaker 01 Yeah, I don't think people are thinking she had anything to do with it.
34:47 Speaker 00 No, I think that's what she's trying to make sure of though with this statement.
34:52 Speaker 01 Yeah, distance herself.
34:53 Speaker 00 Yeah, I don't, I don't know if she's saying, oh, my husband didn't do this now at this point. I think she's just making sure everybody knows, hey, I hadn't even met this guy in 1993. But it did say after 27 years, she maintains the belief that her estranged husband is not capable of committing these heinous acts.
35:14 Speaker 01 Well, you don't want to believe it because you were with somebody for that long. Like we said earlier, once you, once you acknowledge it, what does it say about you as a person?
35:25 Speaker 00 Yeah, and I literally, I'm not blaming her at all.
35:28 Speaker 01 No.
35:29 Speaker 00 Assuming she didn't have anything to do with any of the criminal acts, which I don't believe she did. I don't even think she was anywhere near the places where these occurred. I think it would be natural for a lot of spouses to just not be able to believe.
35:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:46 Speaker 00 That their partner was, was capable of this. According to CBS, Herman was living with another woman at his Massapequa Park home before Sandra Castillo was killed. His wife and children were in Vermont when Jessica Taylor was killed in 2003. On December 17th, 2024, Rex Herman was charged with the murder of 24-year-old Valerie Mack, who was working as an escort in Philadelphia in 2000, when she went missing. Herman told the judge, "Your Honor, I'm not guilty of any of these charges." And this marked the first time he had spoken in court since his arrest in July 2023.
36:28 Speaker 00 According to court documents, hairs found near Valerie's severed wrists were linked to Herman's estranged wife, Asa Ellerup, and his daughter, to the exclusion of, again, 99.65 this time of the North American population. But here's the thing, right? We talk about how his wife and kids weren't really anywhere, even at home, at the time of most of these murders. But the other thing is his daughter would have been a very young child at the time of the murder. And there's no one that's going to believe that she committed this murder.
37:05 Speaker 01 No.
37:06 Speaker 00 With her mom, or however you want to spin it.
37:09 Speaker 01 All three of them went out together and did this as a group?
37:12 Speaker 00 Right, or that they went with him, or anything like that. Court documents also noted that pornographic images of sexual torture found on Herman's electronic devices showed bindings similar to rope ligatures found on Valerie's remains.
37:28 Speaker 00 Hureman also reached out to a plumbing company for draining draining of his home's pipes after the murder. That's pretty interesting.
37:36 Speaker 01 It is interesting. What was he flushing down those pipes?
37:40 Speaker 00 I don't know. Now, a lot of people, you know, have been caught from blood in their drain. I don't know if that if it was something like that, or if he was trying to get rid of something and something got caught.
37:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:54 Speaker 00 No idea. Court documents further allege that in his planning document, he referenced the dump site as Mill Road. Valerie's remains were found near Mill Road in Manorville. I think it's hard to overstate how big a deal this planning document was.
38:13 Speaker 01 I think it's a huge discovery for the prosecutor.
38:17 Speaker 00 If you're on the jury and they lay out this planning document, and then they're able to tie it to different murders, you got that, you got the DNA, you've got the the burners, um, the cell records.
38:35 Speaker 00 It would be hard for anybody to say, oh, I think I don't think this guy did it.
38:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, for sure.
38:40 Speaker 00 It really would be. There's just a, there's a lot more evidence here than a lot of the cases we talk about.
38:47 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
38:48 Speaker 00 I think that's pretty easy to say. DA Raymond Tierney said that all this evidence was consistent with the murders occurring in the Massapequa Park home. Valerie's tattoos were removed and a similar cutting instrument was used to dismember Jessica Taylor. And and I do find that to be very interesting as well. All the forensic type evaluations, you know, when, and this is kind of morbid, but you know, they can go as far as as looking at some of the remains in the tool marks, right? And macro, macro, uh, microscopically matching them to another set of remains.
39:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
39:33 Speaker 00 And say, oh, the same tool was used on both. That that is unbelievable to me.
39:40 Speaker 01 Yeah, how they can do that.
39:41 Speaker 00 Hmm. Again, it's my whole thing about how is anybody getting away with anything these days?
39:47 Speaker 01 I think very difficult.
39:49 Speaker 00 But they they still are.
39:50 Speaker 01 Yeah.
39:51 Speaker 00 That's the scary part.
39:53 Speaker 01 I mean, look, he was able to do this for a long period of time.
39:56 Speaker 00 He really did. Yeah.
39:58 Speaker 01 You know, that's that's the sad thing about it, you know, but um, once they were able to get on his trail, then that's when it fell apart for him.
40:08 Speaker 00 Yeah, it all kind of started to fall together pretty quickly.
40:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:11 Speaker 00 I think, or um, pretty well, you'd have to say.
40:16 Speaker 00 On April 8th, 2026, Rex Heuermann pleaded guilty to killing seven women between 1993 and 2011, and admitted to killing an eighth. In exchange for his guilty plea, he wouldn't be charged with the murder of Karen Vergata, who was identified in 2023. He originally faced 10 murder charges for seven murders. Three of those cases were charged as both first degree and second degree murder. Three double up charges were dismissed with his plea. So, I mean, I guess he got out of some charges. But in the grand scheme of things, he ain't never seen the light of day.
41:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, so why not go ahead and admit to it? If you did it, why not admit to everything you did? Why? What's? Why? Why hold back?
41:09 Speaker 00 Yeah, I don't know. I can see why maybe he um, just went ahead and and wanted to plead guilty because by this point, he had to know the mountain of evidence.
41:22 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:22 Speaker 00 Against him. And there's just no way that he was getting around it.
41:27 Speaker 01 And maybe, I doubt this is why, but maybe he didn't want to put the victims' families. Maybe he didn't want to put his, you know, his wife and his kids through, you know, these long trials.
41:39 Speaker 00 Yeah, I I would say maybe his wife and kids.
41:43 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:44 Speaker 00 I don't know if he gave a you know what about the victims' families. Now, maybe he could have. Maybe there were some things, he just didn't want to come out in open, uh, he didn't want to come out in open court.
41:56 Speaker 01 That's been very, very much true.
41:58 Speaker 00 Because there was more gruesome details to come out that, you know, he just said, I'm going to be convicted anyway. Let's just wrap this thing up. I really don't know. At a news conference, Suffolk County DA Raymond Tierney apologized to the families and commended the authority, saying he thought by killing them, he could silence them forever and get away with murder. He tried to present himself as the harmless father next door, but he was wrong. There was no negotiation for reduced sentence. It was Sherman's decision to plead guilty. And the families were asked if they wanted to accept the plea or go to
42:41 Speaker 00 trial. They agreed to accept the plea. And I don't blame him. I mean, justice is going to be done, right? He's never getting out of prison, ever. We haven't talked about his sentence, but you know, he's never getting out of prison. And the family doesn't have to hear some of the details, which you know, would be very hard for them.
43:04 Speaker 01 I mean, you also look at it, with the plea, it's a slam dunk. It's done. Don't have to worry about anything going wrong at the trial, even though it looks pretty solid. Could something come out at the trial that ends up backfiring?
43:20 Speaker 00 Could. The other thing that prosecutors talk about a lot is what that does as far as appeals later on.
43:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:29 Speaker 00 Which is a really big deal. So I could understand why everybody involved thought the plea deal was a good idea. So he admitted to meeting all eight victims, strangling them and dumping their bodies. He also agreed to cooperate with the FBI as part of his plea. His sentencing is set for June 17.
43:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:54 Speaker 00 So as of right now, we're in May. It's, I don't know when this comes out, but when we're taping this, it's in May. So it's about three weeks away from where we sit right now. I mean, I think there's no doubt he's expected to receive life in prison.
44:14 Speaker 01 Sure.
44:15 Speaker 00 Without parole. A bunch of consecutive life sentences, maybe a number of sentences of something like 25 years to life. Herman's defense attorney, Michael Brown, told reporters outside court that the guilty plea brought a sense of release for Herman. He said, when you have that type of stuff in your head and on your body, I think by admitting it, it's cathartic to some extent. Maybe.
44:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:46 Speaker 00 Okay. I just think he knew he was caught.
44:48 Speaker 01 I think he, the gig was up.
44:50 Speaker 00 Yeah, I really think he probably had conversations with his attorney. I'm sure he had a really good idea of all the evidence that was, you know, against him. And he just thought, there's no way, there's no way a jury is not going to find me guilty. Let's get it over with and we'll move on. When asked whether his client has expressed remorse, he said Herman is likely to have something to say in court on June 17th. So that will be interesting, right? It's still yet to come. We'll have to see. He said that Herman will not provide details of how he committed the crimes at the sentencing here. Brown added,
45:31 Speaker 00 he certainly wanted to save the families of the victims. The ordeal of going to trial coupled with saving his family from that. So I think you said that. I mean, it could be. He, or the defense attorney just could be saying that. Herman's ex-wife, Asa, and their daughter attended the hearing. Asa and her attorney briefly addressed reporters, saying, my thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families. Their loss is immeasurable, and the focus should be on them at this time in the moment. Melissa Khan, the sister of Maureen Brainerd-Barnes, said, there's finally a sense of relief. Today is not about the person responsible. Today is about the women's lives who were stolen,
46:16 Speaker 00 about their voices, their future, their families. They are the reason we are here.
46:21 Speaker 01 Well said.
46:22 Speaker 00 It's very well said. I mean, you've got to put this guy away, right? He has to be held accountable for his actions, but they're not there for him. Everybody is there for the victim. She also addressed other families going through something similar, saying, "Keep going. Your loved ones matter. They're not forgotten, and one day, answers can come." And that's a very powerful statement as well, because we, you and I do an Unsolved Podcast, and we're always talking about how, you know, these families, they just don't, they won't give up.
46:59 Speaker 01 No.
47:00 Speaker 00 And they shouldn't, but they, they say it. "We're never giving up."
47:05 Speaker 01 They're troopers, man.
47:06 Speaker 00 And I think this is proof, and we see a lot of cases like this, where even 20, 30, 40 years later, some of these cases can be solved, and the victims can get justice. Luckily, in this case, he was still alive to face justice. After the guilty plea, it was reported that Asa Ellerup was still living in the Massapequah Park home, and even sleeping in the basement, which has been called the Kill Room.
47:37 Speaker 01 I don't know about that.
47:38 Speaker 00 It's a tough one.
47:39 Speaker 01 Yeah.
47:40 Speaker 00 I mean, is there not a Motel 8 down the road? I get it. Motels are, you know, expensive, but I, I don't know that, that I want to live. Now, she did live there for, what, 27 years or so?
47:55 Speaker 01 It's the home she knows.
47:56 Speaker 00 She does know the home well, but she now also knows that most likely, people were killed inside that home.
48:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
48:03 Speaker 00 So, that's got to factor in a little bit, right? When you lay your head down on the pillow.
48:09 Speaker 01 Put that home on the market.
48:11 Speaker 00 But who's gonna buy it?
48:12 Speaker 01 I don't know. There's probably somebody somewhere that says, "I want to buy that home."
48:17 Speaker 00 Well, somebody will probably turn it into some wacky museum, maybe, or something. Asa said she constantly relives the horrific things that happened in the home. Yeah, that's what happens if you're still gonna live in the home.
48:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
48:31 Speaker 00 In an episode of the Gilgo Beach Killer House of Secrets, Asa revealed that she's redone the basement where Rex told her he murdered and dismembered victims.
48:41 Speaker 01 Listen, you can redo it all you want.
48:44 Speaker 00 I mean, this isn't HGTV Rock the Block.
48:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's still, it happened. Redoing it doesn't take away what happened there.
48:52 Speaker 00 And I'm not putting her down at all. I don't want to be negative against her. I don't think she had anything to do with this. I just think, man, I don't, I couldn't do it. No. She was asked what she wanted people to know about why she moved into the basement. She said, "The brutal truth is that Rex Hureman said he dismembered the bodies in this room. That is the brutal truth. Okay. Now there's me. I'm in this room and I'm here because I do feel spiritual. I'm trying to say spiritually in my own way that I'm really sorry for what these victims went through. I'm haunted by dreams every night. It will never go away. It will follow me for the rest of my life." Okay. I don't, I'm not sure I understand that.
49:35 Speaker 01 Yeah, I don't either. I think, I think it's gonna, it's haunting you because you are in the area that the horrific things happened.
49:45 Speaker 00 And not just in the area, in the house. I just wonder if maybe she's also feeling some survivor's guilt because we know that can happen as well. I just don't know. I really don't. As a condition of his guilty plea, Hureman was allowed to meet one-on-one with Asa and their daughter, Victoria, to confess to them before doing so in court. That's gotta be tough. They asked him to explain his motives, but he didn't explicitly state what pushed him to kill. Victoria recalled, "He said that his demons got to him." She asked her father if he ever stopped to consider that the victims were someone's family, and he responded that
50:28 Speaker 00 he didn't really think of the women as human beings.
50:31 Speaker 01 There you go.
50:32 Speaker 00 And I think that is pretty telling.
50:34 Speaker 01 It is.
50:35 Speaker 00 And also, pretty consistent with serial killers.
50:39 Speaker 01 Exactly what I was thinking.
50:40 Speaker 00 I don't think that they see their prey, and I'm using that word on purpose, as human beings. I think they see their victims as prey and therefore... Maybe they they are able to kill. Most of us can't or wouldn't kill because we do see other people.
51:00 Speaker 01 Yep.
51:01 Speaker 00 As human beings. And we don't want to take someone's life over. Uriman revealed that he choked the first victim to death inside his truck in November, 1993. This was the only murder that wasn't planned. He said it just happened.
51:18 Speaker 01 Was the catalyst for everything that happened after that.
51:22 Speaker 00 Could have been. But he did say the other victims were all planned and were killed in the basement when his family was away. Again, not a place that I want to sleep.
51:34 Speaker 01 No.
51:35 Speaker 00 Not at all. Although the Long Island serial killer has been identified and multiple victims have been linked to wrecks. There are still additional cases of victims found on the beach that remain unsolved. Shannon Gilbert's cause and manner of death are still listed as undetermined. Police still believe that based on the evidence, she wasn't murdered.
51:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
51:58 Speaker 00 And her death was most likely non criminal. But obviously, there are people that don't believe that. Perhaps one of the biggest developments is that the Jane Doe that we talked about called Peaches and her daughter have been identified in April, 2025. With the help of genetic genealogy, Peaches and her daughter were identified as 26 year old Tanya Jackson, a US Army veteran, and her two year old daughter, Tatiana Dykes. And we mentioned it earlier, right? Tanya was found in Hempstead Lake State Park in Lakeview, New York on June 28, 1997.
52:40 Speaker 00 Tanya's daughter was found 20 miles away along Ocean Parkway near Gilgo Beach in April, 2011. Tanya, originally from Mobile, Alabama, served in the Army from 93 to 95. She and her daughter were living in Brooklyn and were estranged from their family at the time of their deaths. They were identified in 2023 law enforcement developed investigative leads pointing to Tatiana's father, Andrew Dykes as a suspect. Dykes was a married father of two and met Tanya when they were stationed at Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio. He was listed as Tatiana's father on her birth certificate.
53:23 Speaker 00 He was transferred to Fort Hamilton in Brooklyn in 1995. Tanya and Tatiana soon joined him there before they went missing. Tatiana had been honorably discharged from the army and was a single mother living in Brooklyn Sunset Park neighborhood. She was possibly working at a, as a doctor's medical assistant. She might have had a female friend or neighbor watching her baby. Dyke served in the army until 2001 as a military instructor specializing in anatomy and physiology. He then worked as a Florida State Trooper.
53:59 Speaker 01 Busy guy.
54:00 Speaker 00 Yeah. He, after identifying the bodies, investigators surveilled Dykes in Tampa and recovered a cup and straw he threw in the trash. His DNA was linked to DNA from Tanya's remains.
54:13 Speaker 01 What I've learned is that I am not going to throw my trash anywhere public. I'm taking it home with me and then I will burn it inside my home.
54:23 Speaker 00 What does it matter? You just said, you've said a million times, your DNA is all over this place.
54:28 Speaker 01 That's true.
54:28 Speaker 00 I'll just have him come down here and swab your chair.
54:31 Speaker 01 Yeah.
54:32 Speaker 00 They'll get you.
54:33 Speaker 01 They'll get me.
54:34 Speaker 00 He was 66 years old and was arrested on December 3rd, 2025, and then indicted on December 18th. He was charged with second degree murder for Tanya's death. There wasn't enough evidence to move forward with a murder charge for Tatiana's death, but he is believed to be responsible. The case is currently proceeding. So that's interesting in that, again, you kind of just maybe assumed or many people assumed that it was a human. What did strike me as being so different in that one is the, the, the very young child.
55:13 Speaker 01 Two-year-old.
55:16 Speaker 00 Now that could have been an outlier, but turns out it wasn't him at all.
55:21 Speaker 01 Do you think, you know, at one point, maybe Dykes was thinking, I think I'm in the clear.
55:27 Speaker 00 Oh, I guarantee it.
55:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
55:29 Speaker 00 Either they're never going to catch me because it's been so long or they're going to pin it on this guy.
55:35 Speaker 01 Yeah, they're going to group it in with this guy.
55:36 Speaker 00 And I'm going to get away with it. And now finally, as we wrap up this case, we have to talk about the identity of the Asian male found on Gilgo Beach on April 4th, 2011. His identity is still unknown. The victim was found wearing women's clothing. It's possible that they identified as a woman or were known by others as a woman. Investigators believe the victim died in 2006 or earlier from blunt force trauma. The victim was between 17 to 23 years old, about five foot six and wearing a blue ribbed, short sleeve shirt, women's pants and a bra.
56:18 Speaker 00 The victim may have been a sex worker and spent time in New York City. One challenge in this particular case is that Asian people are underrepresented in the genealogy database. And I did not know that.
56:32 Speaker 01 I did not either.
56:33 Speaker 00 But there were a number of articles that talked about it. So the Long Island serial killer case is coming to a resolution, right? In the courts, but there are still a lot of questions remaining. The public doesn't really know many details of Rex Hume's motivations for killing sex workers. I, and I don't know if he's going to give them. It's possible that maybe one day he'll be willing to give a detailed public confession or that additional murders could be linked to him in the future. And I think that is a tough part of the case.
57:14 Speaker 00 You know, and the motivation could just simply be that he was addicted to pornography. He wanted to experience those things in real life.
57:27 Speaker 01 Right.
57:28 Speaker 00 And he felt as though this was the only way he could do it. I really have no idea. It could have been sexual in nature. I mean, I think it was.
57:39 Speaker 01 I do too. I think it had something, a combo nation, a combo.
57:43 Speaker 00 Combo nation.
57:43 Speaker 01 Yeah. He had a, you know, something to do with his, how his mom and him, his relationship with his mom.
57:50 Speaker 00 Yeah. Cause that was strange.
57:51 Speaker 01 It was. And I think that had something to do with it, along with his, you know, fetish fantasy, whatever you want to say about the type of pornography that he liked.
58:02 Speaker 00 Yeah. The bondage, the torture.
58:05 Speaker 01 And I think it just kinda, you know, steamrolled from there.
58:09 Speaker 00 Yeah. I mean, you and I have covered so many serial killers. And the one thing that, you know, never ceases to mystify me is how these guys can somehow gain sexual gratification from murder.
58:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
58:30 Speaker 00 Sometimes, you know, we've heard people talk about it, the striking of blows is somehow sexually gratifying.
58:38 Speaker 01 Gets them off. Yeah.
58:39 Speaker 00 I, I'll never understand it, but I also, even though we're not surprised, we've been doing this for 10 years. I still don't understand how people can make the decision to kill people. I just can't.
58:52 Speaker 01 Yeah. I don't, I don't understand it either. So. And, and with him, you know, they have their victim count, but I, I really believe he's probably killed more.
59:01 Speaker 00 I guarantee it. I guarantee with a guy like Hureman, who was operating for that many years. And doing it the way he was doing it. Cause he's not going to volunteer.
59:13 Speaker 01 No.
59:14 Speaker 00 Right? Additional victims that they don't know about, but I'm sure that at some point, they will link additional cases to him. I bet you anything. But that's it for our entire series on Rex Heuermann, the Gilgo Beach murders, the Long Island serial killer. So for Mike.
59:36 Speaker 01 And Gibby.
59:37 Speaker 00 Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.
Previous Long Island Serial Killer Part 3 Next Kacie Woody Page updated October 30, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated