Kacie Woody

Kacie Woody was groomed online by a middle-aged predator posing as a teenager in Yahoo chat rooms. The case became one of the earliest high-profile examples of internet stalking leading to abduction and murder, helping shape future law enforcement approaches to online child exploitation. Join Mike and Gibby as they cover the tragic 2002 murder of 13-year-old Kacie Woody of Holland, Arkansas. Kacie was talking to people online, but the police were most interested in two boys, Scott and Dave. As the investigation unfolded, "Dave" turned out to be a 47-year-old married father from California, named David Leslie Fuller, who was discovered to be an online predator. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetime Visit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation information An Emash Digital production See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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• 1:54Speaker 00

  Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 504 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson, and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

• 2:05Speaker 01

  Hey, I'm doing good. How about you?

• 2:06Speaker 00

  I'm doing great. You and I are just getting back into the swing of things after coming back from CrimeCon in Vegas. Yeah, it was great.

• 2:14Speaker 01

  It was.

• 2:14Speaker 00

  We had our meetup. We got to meet new fans, see old, you know, fans that have been with us a long time. It was a lot of fun. It's also very expensive in Las Vegas.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  It is. Hopefully I'll get my shirt back somehow from there.

• 2:30Speaker 00

  You lost your shirt?

• 2:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:32Speaker 00

  Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Richard Ramirez jump out at our highest level.

• 2:38Speaker 01

  Well, that's a very interesting last name Ramirez with the first name Richard.

• 2:43Speaker 00

  I was gonna say, I think Ramirez is pretty common.

• 2:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, the combo though.

• 2:48Speaker 00

  The combo is what, what strikes it. Patrick Erickson also jumped out at our highest level.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  What's going on, Patrick?

• 2:55Speaker 00

  We had Casey Van New.

• 2:56Speaker 01

  Hey, Van New.

• 2:57Speaker 00

  Jackie Hanson.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  Well, thanks, Jackie.

• 3:00Speaker 00

  And last but not least, Charles Thompson.

• 3:03Speaker 01

  Thank you so much, Charles.

• 3:04Speaker 00

  And you'll hear from Charles later on, not directly, but he also sent us a big package from Scotland.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  Really? And do you know, Charles, he's in charge?

• 3:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, of our days and our nights.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  Always got to updo me, don't you?

• 3:22Speaker 00

  Updo you or outdo you?

• 3:24Speaker 01

  However you want to say.

• 3:26Speaker 00

  All right. And then we, if we go back into the vault. This week, we selected Rebecca.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  Thanks, Rebecca.

• 3:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, we appreciate all the Patreon support we got. And we did talk a lot more about Crime Con on Patreon. So if you're a Patreon supporter, go over there and check it out. If you're not, now's a great time to sign up. We have a brand new episode out on Unsolved right now where we're talking about actress Barbara Colby. She was murdered in 1975. Shortly after she got a big break in her career, it was a major role in a new sitcom. So we go through all the particulars of that case. And then on Thursday's TCAT, we're talking about Aaron Goodwin, best known for his

• 4:10Speaker 00

  role as cameraman Ghost Hunter on the popular show Ghost Adventures. In 2024, his wife, Victoria. Began plotting to kill him with Florida inmate Grant Amato, who we covered on TCAT.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a very interesting case.

• 4:30Speaker 00

  It is. It is. So that'll be out Thursday. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All The Time?

• 4:36Speaker 01

  I am ready.

• 4:37Speaker 00

  We're talking about Casey Woody. In December 2002, 13-year-old Casey Woody was stalked, abducted, and murdered by a 47-year-old man she met online, who had been posing as a teenager in chat rooms. Such a scary thing.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  It is.

• 4:56Speaker 00

  Casey Woody was born on October 17, 1989. Her parents were Rick Woody and Christie Woody. Casey has two older brothers, Tim and Austin. And speaking of people posing as teenagers online to meet underage people, Chris Hansen was in the booth like just a few down from us.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:21Speaker 00

  So, you know, to catch a predator is going to come to mind in this episode, no doubt. Since 1984, the family had lived in Holland, Arkansas, a tiny community in rural Faulkner County. The area appealed to Christie and Rick because it was quiet and safe. And you know, that's what a lot of families look at when they, you know, they start to have kids. Okay, where's the best place to raise our kids?

• 5:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, you want a nice, nice community, safe community.

• 5:53Speaker 00

  Good school system, things like that. Casey attended school in nearby Greenbrier. On June 19, 1997, Rick, Christie, Tim, and Casey were on their way home from Tim's baseball game when two horses ran onto the road in front of them. Rick hit one of the horses, which slammed through the windshield on the passenger side, killing Christie.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  Oh, man. I mean, you don't hear things like that around here, right? We don't have horses getting loose. We have deer.

• 6:27Speaker 00

  We do have a lot of deer, which cause accidents. We have a lot of horses. I have just not heard of a scenario like this around here, not to say it couldn't happen, but how tragic. And Casey was just seven years old when her mother died. From then on, she hated horses. And how could you not?

• 6:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, heartbreak.

• 6:49Speaker 00

  Because Casey grew up without her mom, she assumed a lot of responsibility at a young age. She did her own laundry, cooked dinner for herself, and did her homework without being told.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  Things that you'd never have done even to this date.

• 7:05Speaker 00

  Oh, and I certainly never did my homework.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  Well, you all know that.

• 7:09Speaker 00

  Whether I was told or not.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  I'm still correcting you on things.

• 7:13Speaker 00

  In June 2001, Rick Woody went on part-time patrol for the Greenbrier Police Department. He had been working as a dispatcher, but he wanted to be on the streets. He was assigned to the night shift. Normally, Casey's older brother, Tim, was home at night. On weekends, she went to her grandmother's house. There were some evenings when Casey was home alone for several hours, but Rick believed she was safe. Casey didn't seem to mind being home alone. They had lived in the same area for 18 years with no issues, and it was said they even often left their door unlocked.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  I mean, there's communities like that. I mean, I kind of live in a community like that now that I'm not concerned. I feel like I could leave my door unlocked and not have to worry about it. But, you know me, I lock it down and

• 8:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  All that.

• 8:08Speaker 00

  I mean, partly because you have nothing of value that anyone would want to steal. So now they might want to do you harm for a myriad of reasons.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  That's why I lock it down when I'm in it.

• 8:22Speaker 00

  But it's certainly not going to be because you have a treasure trove of very expensive items, as cheap as you are.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  Those are all buried.

• 8:31Speaker 00

  At the time of her death, Casey was a student at Greenbrier Middle School and participated in band and choir. She was also in her school's gifted and talented program. Casey was said to be quiet around people she didn't know, but she loved to perform for friends and family. She was described as a model child and had deep empathy for others. She was also more trusting than her peers because she had never had a bad experience with anyone before. Jessica Bradford, one of Casey's best friends, told THV 11, her personality was outgoing and caring. Nobody was a stranger to her.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  When you don't know any better, right? Because she's never experienced it. So you're gonna be like that.

• 9:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, if you grow up kind of in a rough environment, or let's say you grow up on the streets, you are gonna be a lot more wary of things than, you know, if you grow up in middle America, you're very sheltered, you've never had a bad experience. I could see that happening. Casey liked spending time with her friends and listening to bands like NSYNC. She was also interested in the internet. She and her friends used online chat rooms to message other teens. And Casey lived so far out in the country that phone calls to Greenbrier,

• 10:01Speaker 00

  which was 12 miles north, were long distance. Rick had strict rules about using the phone. So Casey mostly used instant messaging to talk to her friends. She preferred instant messaging over email because she could have conversations in real time. Her username was Model Behavior 63. Model Behavior was one of her favorite Disney movies. 63 was her brother's football jersey.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  And I remember growing up back in the day when you had, just the town over was long distance. Literally would drive me crazy because you're thinking, it's not that far. How can it be long distance? But if you called, you know, wanted to talk to a girl over there, you called and, you know, your parents would be like, why did you make this long distance phone call? You know, 20 times this month and talked for an hour or two, you know?

• 10:58Speaker 00

  Well, and you can't tell the truth, right? It's because, you know, mom, dad, come on now. You know what I'm trying to do here. But there was also, if you remember, peak hours.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  There was.

• 11:10Speaker 00

  Like if you called after a certain time, it would be cheaper. I mean, just things that we don't even think about today because, first of all, you just pick up your cell phone and call. You don't worry about where it is. You don't worry about what time it is. It's unlimited, baby.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  I remember, I remember one time.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  I was dating this girl. I was, I don't know, a sophomore or something in high school. Long distance. I called her at nighttime. We were talking and, you know, no, you say goodbye. No, you say goodbye, you know, back and forth.

• 11:42Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  And, and then she said, well, just fall asleep with me. And I remember, okay. And then I remember when the bill came, my dad about lit me up.

• 11:53Speaker 00

  I'm surprised he didn't actually with the Mattel racetrack.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  Probably did light me up, but he was like, why, why is there like, it was something like seven hours or something? What, what the heck did you have to talk about? And I'm like, well, we did, we fell asleep. And that just made a.

• 12:10Speaker 00

  Oh, that's, yeah, that's not gonna go.

• 12:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:13Speaker 00

  In May 2002, Casey met a, a boy named Scott online. Scott was 14 years old at the time and lived in a suburb of Atlanta. He liked football and wrestling. Casey and Scott talked and flirted for several months before they became official on October 3rd, 2002. By the fall of 2002, Casey was a regular in Yahoo's Teen and Christian chat rooms. That summer, she met a guy named Dave in a Yahoo chat room. In his profile, Dave indicated that he was an 18 year old from San Diego. His picture showed a young man with wavy hair.

• 12:55Speaker 00

  So, you know, the two became friends. They messaged each other regularly. Casey introduced Dave to others in her online friend group. They bonded over their love of music. Dave played guitar and Casey sang and played the saxophone. Casey set up three-way phone calls between herself, Dave and her real life friends. And even sent Dave photos of some of her friends. She briefly considered Dave her boyfriend, but in early autumn, she became interested in a local boy. She broke up with that boy for Scott. According to the Arkansas Democrat Gazette,

• 13:36Speaker 00

  Casey and Dave's friendship was full of romantic overtimes. Even after Scott became her boyfriend, Casey had introduced Scott to Dave. They had even talked on the phone before. The first time Dave called, Scott's mother answered and asked why someone was calling from California. Scott took the phone from her and said it was a friend of a friend. The second time, Scott's dad answered the phone. He was angry when he heard Dave's voice and declared that he wasn't a kid and ordered him not to call again.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  Some people just can't be fooled.

• 14:14Speaker 00

  Yeah. Some people pick up on things that, you know, maybe a 14, 15 year old just wouldn't pick up on.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:23Speaker 00

  Casey's real life friends were concerned over how trusting she was of strangers she met online. Her friend Samantha had never liked Dave and she thought Scott's romantic messages were excessive. Another friend had similar feelings about Scott. Casey once emailed him an excerpt of a message from Scott and he asked how long she had known him and if she believed all the things he was saying. Rick Woody was also concerned when Casey told him her online friend was celebrating his 18th birthday. He told her 18 was too old and ordered Casey to stop talking to him.

• 15:05Speaker 01

  Hey, we both have daughters. We've been down that road. We know how we feel about them dating somebody too old.

• 15:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, but we also know and have experienced what happens when you try to

• 15:22Speaker 00

  Order your daughter not to talk to somebody, not to, you know, see somebody. I mean, most of the time, Gibbs, what does it do? It just makes them want to do it that much more.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it backfires on you.

• 15:36Speaker 00

  It can, for sure. Casey messaged Dave and told him that her dad said they couldn't talk anymore. Around that time, Dave started calling Casey frequently to talk to her about his aunt, who was in a coma after a car accident and wasn't expected to live more than a few months. Casey felt bad for him. And I mentioned it, right? Her friend said, you know, she was a very empathetic person. So of course she's going to feel bad for Dave because he's telling her this story about his aunt, who's in a coma and not expected to live long. Casey would occasionally call Dave, but would hang up quickly.

• 16:21Speaker 00

  These phone calls made Casey's friend Samantha uncomfortable. She agreed that Dave didn't sound like an 18 year old and noted that he used outdated slang like groovy.

• 16:33Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:35Speaker 00

  Groovy in the early 2000s? I mean, not even you and I were doing that.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  No, that's not groovy to use groovy at that time. I don't even know if like, it used to be also chill and now it went from chill to it's sick. But I don't even think sick is a thing now. I think it's something different.

• 16:55Speaker 00

  I still think you're decades behind.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  I probably am. Uh, at Crime Con, there was a, a girl that came up that was talking and, uh, she liked something that was being said and she started using her, uh, index finger and her thumb and, you know, basically clapping them together multiple times. Like, and I guess that means like, that's, that's good.

• 17:21Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  Like applauding, but it was just so weird for, see somebody do that, you know?

• 17:26Speaker 00

  I'm not going to start that.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:31Speaker 00

  On two occasions, Casey set up three-way phone calls so she could talk to Dave and Samantha at the same time. Dave also talked to Casey's friend Jessica. One weekend in November 2002, Jessica was spending the night at Casey's house. Casey was on the phone with Dave and handed it over to Jessica. During the conversation, the girls heard noises outside that sounded like someone walking around the back of the house. They moved a dresser in front of Casey's bedroom door. Minutes later, they thought they heard the kitchen floor squeak. Casey told Dave she was afraid someone was in the house. He responded, "Oh, there's nobody in your house. You're just

• 18:16Speaker 00

  imagining things." And the noises stopped after that. During that same conversation, Dave told Casey he was going to Arkansas because his aunt was deteriorating. He planned to stay in Arkansas until she died. However, he didn't ask or suggest that he wanted to see her in person. The girls tried to end the conversation several times, but Dave said he had been driving for hours and needed company. On December 3, 2000, Casey went to school as normal. That morning, she was having a disagreement with her friend Samantha, and we talked about it, right? Samantha

• 18:55Speaker 00

  couldn't understand Casey's fascination with these boys that she had met online. She worried about how freely Casey was giving out her phone number. Samantha had told Casey, "You can't be in love with someone from the internet."

• 19:13Speaker 01

  Well, back then, no, but a lot of things have changed over the time. People fall in love over the internet all the time now. But I get it. I know what she's saying. Like, you haven't even met this person. You don't know anything about them besides what they want you to think about them.

• 19:32Speaker 00

  Well, and not to mention her age, right? She is a pretty young girl at this point. Yeah, you're right. A lot of people are meeting their soulmates, people they end up marrying over the internet. It's a big deal. But the internet has changed a lot in the last 25 years.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  Oh, for sure. I mean, there's still catfishing going on all the time and probably always will be.

• 19:59Speaker 00

  But there are many ways, you know, where you don't have to give out all your information. You don't have to give out your phone number. You could do a Zoom call.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:10Speaker 00

  Or something like that and still keep a lot of your information private. The day before Samantha made a comment about a photo of Scott that Casey kept in her locker. Samantha said he was hot, but Casey thought she said fat. Oh, man, you talk about two girls getting into a fight.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 20:32Speaker 00

  Over a misunderstanding of words. Been there, done that. Seen my daughters do it a number of times. By the next morning, the girls' mutual friends had taken sides in the disagreement. And Samantha decided to get an adult involved. She took a friend with her to talk to school counselor Diana Keller. Mrs. Keller listened to Samantha and then called Casey to her office. So the girls could talk alone. When she re-entered the office, the girls had patched things up.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  Girls do that, you know, they can hate each other one day and be best friends again the next day.

• 21:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, my wife can go from zero to 60 in no time. But then also, you know, come back down very quickly.

• 21:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:21Speaker 00

  And, and be de-escalated. I, on the other hand, have a hard time de-escalating quickly.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, you harbor things for a little while.

• 21:32Speaker 00

  For years, sometimes, decades.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  Do you hold a grudge?

• 21:37Speaker 00

  In some instances.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  Yes, you are a grudge holder.

• 21:40Speaker 00

  I am. Samantha was worried that Casey would soon be angry because she had told Ms. Keller that Casey was giving out her phone number online and Mrs. Keller promised to talk to Casey about it. She asked Casey about it and Casey reassured her that she only gave her number to people approved by her dad. But Samantha knew this was a lie.

• 22:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:05Speaker 00

  And I said it, right? Her dad wasn't happy with her talking to these, these guys, especially some of these that were 18 or about to turn 18. Later that day, Mrs. Keller called Casey back to her office and warned her about online dangers, but Casey just didn't seem to have any fear. Samantha and Casey met after school. Casey was her usual happy self, but she made a suggestion that later caused her friends to question if she sensed something was going to happen. Casey asked if she could sleep over at Samantha's house. Samantha said no because she knew her mom would not allow a, a school night

• 22:47Speaker 00

  sleepover. Casey also asked her friend Jessica. Jessica also said no. Casey asked a third friend, but she received the same answer.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  It's a bummer when you ask a friend if you can spend the night and they say no. I mean, I used to do that here at least five, seven, maybe 12 times a year and you're like, Shannon won't let you. Shannon won't let you.

• 23:11Speaker 00

  No.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:12Speaker 00

  First of all, there's no reason. You have your own place and it just seems as though you're trying to set something up that could go south in a hurry. And then I have to sleep on the couch with a weapon just to keep an eye on you.

• 23:29Speaker 01

  You know, at least keep one eye open and keep your head on a swivel.

• 23:33Speaker 00

  Exactly. But I also like to sleep and I'd rather not stay up all night. Casey never explained why she wanted to spend the night with a friend. She didn't seem upset by her friend's rejection. She laughed and headed to the bus stop, telling her friends goodbye before she boarded. That evening, Casey's dad, Rick, was on patrol in Greenbrier. He had a sinus infection and had almost called in sick. His chief told him to take it easy and Rick thought he could make it through his shift, which ended at 2:00 a.m. He kept his phone with him so he could check on Casey, but he wasn't worried. Casey's 19-year-old brother, Tim, was still living at home.

• 24:14Speaker 00

  His friend, Eric Betts, also 19, was temporarily living with them. If they weren't around, Casey had her aunt, who lived on the same street.

• 24:25Speaker 01

  Well, it sounds like a safe place to be, right? I mean, two adult boys, not boys really, young men, 19 each of them. And like he said, the aunt was just down the street and this is supposed to be a safe town.

• 24:38Speaker 00

  But here's the thing. At 6:00 p.m., Tim left to go to the University of Central Arkansas Library. Eric also had an evening class. And then Casey's aunt was at her daughter's basketball game. So Casey was truly alone that night. That evening, she checked the weather, hopeful for a snow day. She got ready for bed and then got on the computer to message Scott. Casey told Scott that she was one of the few students chosen to sing in front of the school board. Scott congratulated her. While she was messaging Scott, Casey was on the phone with Dave, who was giving her an update on his aunt. He said she was expected to pass shortly.

• 25:24Speaker 00

  And it was said that Casey kept Scott informed of her conversation with Dave. She also mentioned her visit to the counselor's office. In the Arkansas Democrat Gazette, published excerpts of their conversation, Casey said, "So guess what? I got a lecture." Scott, "Oh, I'm sorry, baby." Casey, "On how you could be an 80-year-old rapist, lol." Scott said, "lol." Casey, "hee hee." And that the picture was your grandson. Scott wrote back, "How many times have you gotten that one?" She said, "Um, I lost count." Well, then she's like, "Do your parents know you talk to people you don't know?"

• 26:09Speaker 00

  I was like, "Yeah." And she was like, "Well, be careful and don't agree to meet them unless your mom and dad is with you." I was like, "Okay." And she's like, "Well, remember this little talk." I was like, "Okay." Scott said, "Uh-oh, probably means she's going to talk to you again." Casey said, "I know." What Casey didn't know was that while she was messaging Scott, a man was outside of her house, watching her. Scott continued messaging Casey, but she abruptly stopped responding. Scott wrote, "Hee hee, I'll always be with you, my angel, because you're all I want to be with. I put my screensaver as the picture I have in my locker.

• 26:54Speaker 00

  You're the most beautiful angel in the world, Casey. Are you okay, sweetie?" So these are a series of messages, right? That he sent with no response. Casey finally responded at 9:41 PM, writing, "Yah, Y-A-H", which was uncharacteristically brief of her.

• 27:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, it seems strange for somebody that was communicating the way she was up to that point.

• 27:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, pretty talkative, you know? Investigators believe that the intruder snuck into the house and caught Casey off guard. While she was messaging Scott, he covered her face with a chloroform-soaked rag and dragged her through the house into his vehicle. Her glasses were knocked off during the struggle. And here's Scott, right on the other end, his messages became increasingly worried. Are you busy? He he, guess so. You there, baby? Sweetie, are you okay? Please talk to me. When you are ready to talk, sweetie, I'll be here. Are you mad at me, sweetie? So it's just, you know, a lot of messages, one after the other.

• 28:05Speaker 00

  He's not getting any response and it sounds like he's getting a little worried. And really for the next 35 minutes, he continued to frantically message her. And then at 10:15 PM, Scott called Casey's house. When Casey didn't answer, he messaged her. Why isn't anyone answering the phone? Scott also emailed Casey's friend Jessica. He said, Jessica, please let this be you. Something is wrong with Casey. Her messenger is still on and all of a sudden she left during our convo, but didn't log off. And I tried to call her and no one answered and we weren't fighting or anything. So I emailed the cops to make sure she's all right.

• 28:49Speaker 00

  I hope they get it soon. I'm going crazy. I don't know what I would do without her. Please God, let her be okay. But Jessica didn't see this email until the following afternoon. Eric Betts returned home from class at 10:17 PM. He assumed Casey was already in bed. He watched TV and did his laundry for the next hour. At 11:30 PM, during one of his trips to the laundry room, he noticed Casey wasn't in her room and assumed she was out with friends or family. Tim came home a few minutes later. Eric asked where Casey went. Tim said he thought she was home. Tim called his father at 11:40 PM.

• 29:33Speaker 00

  Rick said Casey was supposed to be home. He last spoke to her at 7:00 PM. He knew something was wrong and told Tim to start calling Casey's friends and checking with their aunt down the street.

• 29:46Speaker 01

  As a parent, this is where my anxiety would kick in.

• 29:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, I think it did for him as well. You know, we talk about mom's intuition a lot. Well, you know, dad's got some too. He's also a police officer.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 29:59Speaker 00

  So he's probably looking at it from, you know, maybe that angle as well. Rick drove back to the police department to check in. No one knew anything about Casey. He contacted the sheriff's office and then headed home. When he arrived, he saw that both of Casey's coats were inside. And her tennis shoes and boots were still by the computer. The temperature was in the 30s and it was raining that night. If Casey was going somewhere, she would definitely need her shoes and a coat.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it doesn't make any sense for her to leave without those items.

• 30:37Speaker 00

  A deputy arrived at the house at 12:24 a.m. Meanwhile, Rick, Tim and Eric were calling Casey's friends, trying to see if she had left to meet them. By this time, Rick had seen a phone call from Georgia on the caller ID placed at 10:15 p.m. They also found the messages between Casey and Scott on the computer. Casey's mangled glasses were found under a pile of towels in a recliner. The frames were bent and one lens had popped out. Casey's beloved dog was also limping.

• 31:13Speaker 01

  What a terrible person.

• 31:16Speaker 00

  And you mentioned, you know, the anxiety on Rick's part. Okay, I think once you find these things, it's gotta go even higher.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Obviously she needs her glasses, so something has to be going on and who would hurt a dog?

• 31:32Speaker 00

  And how did the dog get hurt? Was the dog trying to defend Casey against an intruder? I mean, a lot of those things could run through your mind. Tim was the last one to see Casey when he left the house at 6 p.m. He recalled that she was on the computer with her glasses on, which she always wore when she was online. So you know, you look at all these facts, right? The, the fact that Casey's glasses were damaged. She hadn't taken her shoes or coat and her messages ended abruptly. That supported investigators suspicion that she was abducted. Scott eventually fell asleep.

• 32:14Speaker 00

  Five hours after his last message, he received a message from Casey's account. Hey Scott, are you there? This is Eric. As soon as you get this, answer back, please. I have got to talk to you. Scott replied and explained that Casey just went silent in the middle of their conversation. It didn't seem like anything was wrong and he noted that her last message was sent at 9:41pm. She hadn't talked about going anywhere that night. Eric confirmed Scott's real phone number and got his full name, age and address. Then Eric asked about Casey's chat with the school counselor and her conversation with Dave.

• 32:57Speaker 00

  According to Scott, he wrote, well, um, her and Sam had been having a fight. And they talked about it with the counselor. Then Sam told the counselor that she was dating me and she got lectured. Don't worry about Dave. He's just a good friend. I would have said something if I didn't think he was a good guy, but he's cool. He didn't know Dave's last name, only that he lived in San Diego. Volunteers spent the night searching the woods surrounding the house. In the early morning hours, investigators issued a missing persons alert for Casey. Later that morning, Casey's friends Samantha and Jessica were called to the guidance counselor's

• 33:40Speaker 00

  office to talk to the police. Samantha later recalled to THV 11. I wanted to think that maybe she ran away or something, you know, and that she was going to come back. I never in my mind, my wildest imagination, thought she had been kidnapped because that just doesn't happen here. And how many times have we talked about it, Gibbs? You know, in a smaller town, a town with relatively low crime, at a certain point in time, a lot of people left their doors unlocked. They couldn't fathom, you know, like some big time, serious crime, like an abduction

• 34:22Speaker 00

  or a murder until one happened. And then whatever that was that happened, changed the whole community.

• 34:31Speaker 01

  Sure does.

• 34:32Speaker 00

  Right? People start locking their doors. They buy more guns. They're more fearful for their safety.

• 34:39Speaker 01

  Not so friendly to strangers when they come in town.

• 34:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, it, it, that's just the way it happens. After the interview, Jessica and Samantha compared notes. Initially, Jessica and Samantha felt certain Scott was involved in Casey's disappearance. But then it occurred to Jessica, what if it was they? While the girls were being questioned at school, FBI agent Jerry Spurgers was searching Casey's bedroom. And he found two notes in her trash can. One note read, Casey Renee Woody loves David Leslie Fagan. The other note said, Casey Renee Woody loves Scott G.

• 35:23Speaker 00

  The letters were numbered so Casey could compute the percentage of true love in each relationship.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  Things you did back in those days, you know, just like the old, uh, little origami thing or what?

• 35:38Speaker 00

  Oh, where you, uh, pulled it out.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Use your fingers and thumb.

• 35:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't even remember what that was called, but then you flipped something up and you asked a question. Yeah. People write in.

• 35:51Speaker 01

  Do you love me?

• 35:52Speaker 00

  I, I never did those. I didn't know how to make them, but so I don't really remember what they were called.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. You were just the, uh, reason they were doing them. Does Mike love me?

• 36:04Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 36:04Speaker 01

  Yes or no? Will we get married? Yes or no?

• 36:08Speaker 00

  But I think when you you look at these notes, it's pretty obvious that she had some feelings for both of these individuals. Now, what kind of feelings were there? She didn't really know them. But let's be honest, online, it is possible for you to feel like you do really know someone.

• 36:28Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 36:29Speaker 00

  Authorities had already established Scott's identity, but they still had no idea who Dave really was. FBI agents found Dave's Yahoo profile with the username Jazzman-dash-DF.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  Jazzman.

• 36:47Speaker 00

  Almost like Jazz Hands.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:49Speaker 00

  He lived in San Diego and had registered with Yahoo under the name Dave Fagan, the same name in Casey's note. That morning, Casey's friends Samantha and Jessica asked to talk to the police a second time because they had forgotten to tell the police about Dave during their first interview. They explained that Dave was Casey's ex-boyfriend, but she still talked to him regularly. He'd been telling Casey that his aunt was dying. Jessica also mentioned the November phone call where Dave said he was coming to Arkansas to see his aunt. Now, he said it, right? Dave never said he wanted to see Casey, but Samantha and Jessica felt certain

• 37:33Speaker 00

  that even if he had, Casey would not have agreed to meet him. The Arkansas State Police got involved and asked the Conway Police to canvass motels for suspicious guests. Conway, which is south of Greenbrier, is the biggest city in Faulkner County. Investigators were looking for Dave Fagan, David, anyone with the initials DF, or anyone from California.

• 38:00Speaker 01

  They were on a manhunt.

• 38:01Speaker 00

  Detectives found a California man named David Fuller, registered at the Motel 6. He arrived on December 2nd and was scheduled to stay for seven days. He asked housekeeping not to enter his room.

• 38:16Speaker 01

  There's a sign.

• 38:17Speaker 00

  Is it? Because I don't like housekeeping to enter my room either. And it's not because I have a body in there or something. I just don't want to take the chance that they're gonna steal my laptop or, you know, steal my stuff.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  You're like, don't worry about the sheets, towels, I got it.

• 38:33Speaker 00

  Well, especially if I'm staying at a motel six.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  You're probably bringing your own sheets and towels.

• 38:39Speaker 00

  After I shine the black light, for sure.

• 38:44Speaker 01

  You and your black light.

• 38:46Speaker 00

  It's like a Jackson Pollock painting in here.

• 38:50Speaker 01

  You're no longer around my vehicle with that either, by the way.

• 38:54Speaker 00

  The manager at the hotel told the police Fuller was angry when he couldn't connect to the internet from his room. The manager opened the door to Fuller's room. Inside, police found his suitcase, still packed, and a laptop on a table. The bed had not been slept in. Investigators also discovered that on December 2nd, Dave Fuller rented a silver minivan for seven days from the Enterprise in Conway. An employee recalled that Fuller was fidgety and repeatedly interrupted the paperwork process to go outside and smoke. The employee made a note of Fuller's California

• 39:34Speaker 00

  license plate and motel room number. His cell phone number was listed in the paperwork. That afternoon, investigators learned that the number Casey had been calling was Dave Fuller's cellphone. He officially became the main suspect in Casey's abduction. A description of Fuller's minivan was sent out to the police and the media. An investigator soon confirmed that Dave was David Leslie Fuller, a 47-year-old, married father of two, from California.

• 40:09Speaker 01

  There we have it. Predator.

• 40:11Speaker 00

  Forty-seven years old, masquerading as a 17 or 18-year-old. I mean, what possible reason could someone have for doing that that didn't have some kind of twisted aspect to it?

• 40:29Speaker 01

  Right.

• 40:29Speaker 00

  Because I can't think of one.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  Nothing but bad intentions.

• 40:33Speaker 00

  But here's my thing, right? If you're the investigators, if you are Casey's dad, and you find all this out, I mean, especially her dad, where is your anxiety level at that point?

• 40:48Speaker 01

  Through the roof.

• 40:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't know that it could get any higher. Investigators subpoenaed the rental car paperwork and they got Fuller's credit card number. His credit history showed that earlier that day, his card was charged by GuardSmart Storage in Conway. He had traveled to Conway a month earlier to rent a unit. Investigators suspected he might be holding Casey there. The police received a report from a caller who said he was following a minivan that matched the description down University Avenue in Little Rock. Police hoped Fuller was scared and fleeing and had left Casey alive in the storage unit.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  Trying to be positive.

• 41:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, you have to be right at this point. A detective and two FBI agents arrived at the storage facility just after 5:00 PM. They were led to unit 313. The door was not padlocked and the latch was unfastened. The detective slowly lifted the door. Inside the unit was a silver minivan with the engine still running. And then all of a sudden, a shot rang out. The detective and the agents dove for cover and called for backup. For the next three hours, law enforcement waited, unsure if Casey and Fuller were alive. Just before 8:30 PM, a SWAT team entered the unit.

• 42:18Speaker 00

  Dave Fuller was dead. His body was at the back of the storage unit. He had shot himself in the head with a nine millimeter, which was still in his hand. A few feet away, in the back of the van was Casey's body. She was on her back with her wrists and ankles chained to the four corners of the van's floor. Fuller had removed the two back seats to make space for her body. Casey had been raped and shot in the head. There was a half-empty bottle of chloroform and a purple rag next to her head. And to me, Gibbs, this is heartbreaking, but it's also the worst possible outcome.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, it is.

• 43:04Speaker 00

  Number one, for investigators and especially for the family, you're hoping to find Casey alive. Well, they don't. Unfortunately, she was murdered, but then the perpetrator takes his own life.

• 43:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, because he's afraid to deal with the consequences that were going to come down.

• 43:26Speaker 00

  Oh, absolutely. Right? He's a chicken shit.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  He is a piece of shit. Yeah.

• 43:30Speaker 00

  I think that's pretty evident, but what it does is then it doesn't allow for, you know, them to interrogate him, find out all the reasons why and all of that. You just lose a lot. And then also, you don't get to convict this guy, right? You don't get justice in the sense that a jury of his peers finds him guilty. There's gotta be a little sadness in that part, too. Now, some people might say, well, he's dead. I'm good with that, but I would say by and large, most families probably don't think that way.

• 44:13Speaker 00

  They want to see actual justice, not the perpetrator ending their life before they have to face it.

• 44:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, they should be able to face the people that they caused harm to.

• 44:25Speaker 00

  The medical examiner later concluded that Casey had likely been unconscious from the time she was abducted, until she was killed. Fuller had been in the storage unit since the night before. Throughout the day, he turned on the van to warm himself. He listened to radio reports, and he knew the police were after him. The security box at the facility indicated Fuller arrived at 10:15 p.m. on December 3rd, which meant he had driven directly there. After abducting Casey, he left on foot around 7:30 a.m. the following morning to buy water and cigarettes at a nearby convenience store.

• 45:06Speaker 00

  He was gone for just 21 minutes. And my thought is, he can't risk taking the van out because they're looking for the van.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah, he can only go out on foot at this point.

• 45:19Speaker 00

  Detectives were unsure of Casey's exact time of death. In the aftermath, authorities heavily investigated Fuller's background. He grew up in Salt Lake City and was raised in the LDS church. After high school graduation, he played guitar in rock bands and was no longer interested in church. He got married at 19, but the marriage fell apart.

• 45:45Speaker 00

  In the early eighties, a bandmate's girlfriend introduced him to her sister Sally. Sally had also married and divorced young. She was ready to settle down and have kids. Sally and Dave got married in 1983 and moved to Salt Lake City. Sally worked as a commercial artist for an ad agency. Dave was a tow truck driver. In 1989, Dave joined the Navy Seabees. They moved around the country over the next several years and had two children. They later settled in La Mesa, California, and Dave got a job at a car dealership. Okay, I mean, it all sounds pretty normal to me.

• 46:30Speaker 01

  Does on the outside.

• 46:32Speaker 00

  But by May of 2001, Sally was deeply unhappy and she wanted out of the marriage. In their early years together, Sally and Dave did a lot of social drinking, which mellowed Dave out. When he stopped drinking so often, his temper became unpredictable. Dave would brood, he would explode. Sally was afraid to dig into his past to see what triggered him. He always told her, I don't want to go there. Everything was fine. I had a good childhood. During their marriage, Dave was arrested for exposing himself to two young girls. He told Sally that he just stopped to ask them for directions and they ran off screaming.

• 47:16Speaker 00

  But he never tried to defend himself in court. He skipped his court date and paid a fine for indecent exposure.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  That's because he probably pulled you know what out and that's why they ran.

• 47:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, but what's he gonna tell his wife? No, I didn't do that. I just stopped to ask for directions. Also, why are you asking two young girls for directions?

• 47:37Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 47:37Speaker 00

  That seems strange.

• 47:40Speaker 00

  Sally noticed that Dave was secretive and spent hours on the computer. He walked alone in the neighborhood at night so he could talk on his cell phone. But at a certain point Sally no longer asked questions. But I do want to talk about one thing before we get too far away from it. You know, it's interesting that it was said that, you know, drinking kind of mellowed Dave out. But when he wasn't drinking, that's when his temper became unpredictable. Because I think for a lot of people, it's the other way around. You know, when you, when they drink is when maybe their, their temper can get out of control.

• 48:21Speaker 01

  But in his case, it's the opposite.

• 48:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I thought that was a little strange, but maybe it's not strange. Maybe it's normal for some people.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  Maybe when he's not drinking, he's thinking clearer thoughts and those thoughts are not good.

• 48:36Speaker 00

  You could, you could have hit on something there. And then the other thing is at a certain point, you know, Sally's not asking any questions. Well, she's not getting any answers and she's also deeply unhappy. She wants out of the marriage. So does she stop kind of caring, right? At a certain point, yeah, if you're going to go off and do your own thing, I'm just going to stop asking you about it.

• 49:02Speaker 01

  And maybe she's glad he's going out, walking around instead of being at the house, being grumpy around her or yelling at her or whatever.

• 49:11Speaker 00

  That could be absolutely true. In June 2012, Dave took the kids to visit his parents. He and Sally got into an argument and he brought up divorce. While they were gone, she attended a divorce workshop. And when he returned, she had done everything but file. She thought Dave would be happy, but he was furious. Still Sally was done with the marriage. She filed for divorce in July. Well, if you don't want to get a divorce, don't bring up getting a divorce during an argument. Cause if the other person has been thinking about it, man, you are just opening up the door.

• 49:50Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 49:51Speaker 00

  It's like I tell my wife, my next wife is not going to treat me like this.

• 49:55Speaker 01

  Uh huh. And that goes, goes over very well, I'm sure.

• 49:57Speaker 00

  I usually do it in front of you just because I, I know she's not going to come after me with you here.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:04Speaker 00

  I don't do it when, uh, we're by ourselves.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  That's smart.

• 50:08Speaker 00

  Cause I don't want to face the wrath.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  Cause you would.

• 50:11Speaker 00

  And she knows I'm kidding, but she for some reason still doesn't like it.

• 50:15Speaker 01

  Well, you know, that's just one thing you don't tease about.

• 50:20Speaker 00

  You would think after 30 years of marriage, she would know my sense of humor.

• 50:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I still can't get your sense of humor either. So I don't know.

• 50:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, not many people can. In August of that year, CPS investigated a report that Dave was taking showers with his seven year old daughter. The agency got involved when Sally started asking questions. Investigators ultimately concluded nothing happened. But Sally was uneasy and frankly, I'm uneasy with it too. I, I get it. Parents might take showers with their kids when they're very, very little. Now I would think most of the time it's dads and sons, moms and daughters. But by seven years old, Gibbs, I don't think a dad should be taking a shower with his daughter.

• 51:11Speaker 01

  No, at that time, uh, there's no reason to be doing, uh, scrub a dub dub, however the rest of it goes.

• 51:16Speaker 00

  Now, you know, if you want to sit next to the tub and help them or, or whatever, but being in the shower together. First of all, there's not a lot of room. There's no coverage of any body part.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:31Speaker 00

  So to me, that's a, that's a no go.

• 51:34Speaker 01

  He's a grown man. He should not be naked in the shower with his kids.

• 51:39Speaker 00

  Oh, absolutely. Dave moved into an apartment, but one night he showed up at the house and demanded Sally let him in. She refused and he pushed her aside and barged in. They argued and Sally locked herself in the bedroom with the kids. Dave used a screwdriver to pry open the door. Sally called the police. And Dave was arrested for spousal abuse. Then Dave lost his job. His bosses cited a lack of productivity for his firing, but they suspected Dave was visiting pornography sites on company computers.

• 52:16Speaker 01

  Well, you're on those porn sites, man. Time's going to get away from you. And clearly he was not being productive the way they wanted him to be productive.

• 52:24Speaker 00

  Well, and time getting away from you means it makes it harder to be productive.

• 52:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:29Speaker 00

  But let's talk about, you know, the 2000s, right? Today, in most companies, you can't even sniff those types of websites.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  No.

• 52:40Speaker 00

  There's filters, there's blocks, there's all this stuff. But in 2000, it was a little bit more Wild Wild West like.

• 52:50Speaker 01

  Very true.

• 52:51Speaker 00

  I remember, you know, what was it? 2002, 2003? When you started RexWest.com? I mean, it was, uh, it really was a free for all, no rules type of thing. And it was good for you.

• 53:06Speaker 01

  It was a few good years there, you know? Before they came in and started blocking some of that stuff.

• 53:12Speaker 00

  And then the IRS came a knocking and it all went downhill.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  Tumbled quickly.

• 53:17Speaker 00

  You didn't report all those donations you were getting?

• 53:20Speaker 01

  Well, there was, uh, some law was a little gray.

• 53:24Speaker 00

  Sally and Dave sold their house in September. She hoped the divorce would be finalized by the end of 2002. Dave called his mother on December 3rd of that year. During their conversation, he seemed fine. And he mentioned that Sally was in Utah, visiting family. He asked if Sally brought the kids over to see her. Dave then became emotional. He told his mom he loved her, something he never said first. And then he hung up and neighbors noticed that Dave left his home shortly before December 3rd, without giving a reason or a destination. And I think you have to look at Dave's life at this point in time. It is spiraling downward very quickly.

• 54:08Speaker 01

  Very unstable.

• 54:09Speaker 00

  Right? His, his marriage has fallen apart. He's lost his job. The divorce is finalized. Let's not forget, he was caught for indecent exposure.

• 54:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:22Speaker 00

  And he was on the computer at all hours. We can only surmise that during that period of time, he was in these chat rooms.

• 54:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think either in these chat rooms or, you know, getting his porn addiction time in.

• 54:40Speaker 00

  FBI agents in California searched Fuller's apartment and they found framed photos of Casey near his computer. He also had a photo of Casey's friend Samantha and a picture of one of her other friends. His Yahoo buddy list included the names of multiple Greenbrier kids. Investigators learned that Fuller had been in chat rooms for at least two years and was targeting three other girls about Casey's age. The first girl lived in Michigan. She met Dave online in 2000. They talked every day. He was always a gentleman and they talked about things like school, friends and family.

• 55:23Speaker 00

  He asked for her number, but she said no, and she refused his offers to fly her out to California. Dave never learned her real name.

• 55:33Speaker 01

  Scary when you think about it, you know, I mean, he's gonna keep trying until someone bites.

• 55:38Speaker 00

  Well, this is the act of grooming, right? Sometimes it can be a long process to get someone's guard down. The other thing that I find very interesting is it's not like he's focused on one person. He's casting a wide net.

• 55:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:59Speaker 00

  He's going after a bunch of girls in this age range, almost to me, Gibbs, seeming like he's waiting for someone to take the bait and let their guard down.

• 56:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think he's testing them to see if there's a possibility that he can have them eventually come to him somehow. You know, like you said, by grooming them over time.

• 56:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, no doubt it's grooming. Now, I don't know if we called it grooming in 2000, 2001. We certainly do today and we know a lot more about it. The second girl lived in Dallas. She met him online in March 2001. She had never given him her address. But in March 2002, flowers from Dave showed up at her house. Her father was angry and that was the end of her correspondence.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  That dad probably ripped that computer out of the wall.

• 56:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, maybe. A third girl lived in Pennsylvania. After making sure she was safe, agents didn't press for more details. Fuller's DNA was not linked to any other crimes in the national database. Investigators learned that Fuller made his first trip to Arkansas. On October 11, 2002, he flew into Little Rock, rented a car and drove to Conway. No one is sure what he did during this trip, but police believe he spied on Casey and watched her home. On October 15, 2002, he sent an email to Alltel Communications. "I'm planning an extended trip to Arkansas and the ISP I'm using

• 57:39Speaker 00

  doesn't have a local dial-up number there. Are you an actual ISP? And if so, how do I get software and set up an account to use your service?" On November 2nd, Fuller bought a gun. On the 4th, he returned to Arkansas, again renting a car and driving to Conway. Two days later, he rented a unit at GuardSmart Storage Facility. He told one of the onsite managers that he traveled the country buying cars and needed a place to temporarily store vehicles. On November 8th, he extended his stay at a motel. Authorities suspected that he planned to abduct Casey during this trip,

• 58:22Speaker 00

  but something stopped him. When he returned to California, he purchased chain, duct tape and zip ties from his local Home Depot. He got chloroform from a chemical supply company. I didn't know it was that easy to get chloroform.

• 58:38Speaker 01

  Thinking back then it was. I don't know if it is today.

• 58:40Speaker 00

  I hope it's not. I don't know what all the... Legal uses for chloroform are, but I would assume that 90 whatever percent of the population really doesn't need access to chloroform.

• 58:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing. And no, if you find some, we cannot do a test with it to see how I respond.

• 59:04Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh, that would be awesome on Patreon, though. Just think about it. Be like the horrible bosses scene when Jennifer Aniston puts him out. I would take all kinds of weird pictures.

• 59:15Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I wake up hours later, not knowing anything.

• 59:21Speaker 00

  Yeah. But here's the thing, Gibbs. Police believe Casey was the quote unquote perfect victim because she was trusting and she gave Fuller her real name, address, phone number, and photos of herself. He gained her trust and sympathy with the fake story about his aunt. And we said it earlier on, I think she even gave him photos of some of her friends. In 2003, Fuller's ex-wife Sally spoke to the Arkansas Democrat Gazette and said she now recognized the red flag she missed. Dave's late nights wandering the neighborhood, his anger when she suggested moving the computer out of his bedroom, his

• 1:00:06Speaker 00

  insistence on separate internet passwords and emails, and the framed photo of a young girl in his apartment.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  Well, that should have been a pretty quick red flag, right?

• 1:00:18Speaker 00

  I would think so, but you know, they're broken up by that point.

• 1:00:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:23Speaker 00

  So I don't know. Now, I think today it's pretty common for people to have separate emails, separate passwords.

• 1:00:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:34Speaker 00

  But things were a little different back in the days of dial-up. I think most people just had one service.

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, called America Online, AOL?

• 1:00:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think it was America Online, not American Online. But yeah, you're correct. Remember, they would send you like five CDs a week.

• 1:00:54Speaker 01

  Oh, I know.

• 1:00:55Speaker 00

  Trying to get you to sign up. I mean, every day you walked out to the mailbox, there was another CD.

• 1:01:01Speaker 01

  You're like, leave me alone, man.

• 1:01:03Speaker 00

  I already have AOL. Stop sending me CDs.

• 1:01:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, quit sending those to me. I'm gonna sign up a copy serve.

• 1:01:10Speaker 00

  Sally said about her reaction to his arrest. I was not as surprised as I could have been because of how I saw him deteriorate. I guess I had this feeling, he's going to crash, he's just going to crash. And maybe she just didn't know exactly how he was going to crash.

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:30Speaker 00

  But she felt like, you know, he was, it wasn't gonna be good, but I'm sure she had no idea it was gonna be this bad.

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  I wouldn't think so. She probably just saw somebody spiraling out of control and wanted to stay clear.

• 1:01:44Speaker 00

  Casey's father, Rick Woody, allowed federal and state authorities to share Casey's story in a nationwide effort to train law enforcement and educate parents. He told the Democrat Gazette, I can't let this be meaningless. I've got to make it do somebody some good.

• 1:02:03Speaker 01

  I mean, that's great because maybe by doing that, you save another girl's life.

• 1:02:10Speaker 00

  And in a way, Casey saves another girl's life.

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:02:15Speaker 00

  Right? If you're the family, I, I think a lot of the families, that's how they look at it. You know, if we do something in her name, it's like her spirit carries on and she's still doing good things.

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, because you know, there's girls out there doing the same thing she was doing, thinking,

• 1:02:35Speaker 01

  I'm not worried, nothing's gonna happen to me. I know my parents are all being weird about it. And then they hear this story and they're like, mm, yeah, I'm gonna shut this down now.

• 1:02:44Speaker 00

  Because this can happen.

• 1:02:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:47Speaker 00

  According to THV 11, it was the first time in Arkansas history that police encountered internet stalking of a minor to such an extent. Former Faulkner County Sheriff Marty Montgomery recalled, we didn't have the resources at that point in time to hire a specialist to do computer crimes. Because it was new, it was something that our case kind of kicked the door down.

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  Man, think about today with computer forensics.

• 1:03:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, and cybercrime departments, some places have whole.

• 1:03:22Speaker 00

  Squads of people, you know, devoted to cybercrime. Casey's friends Samantha Davis and Jessica Bradford continue to share Casey's story to keep others safe. Samantha told THV11, "There was no education for us and there's a lot of education out there now. It's not just a story because guess what? It happened right here. It happened to my friend. It happened to me." Jessica added, "Parents really just need to be in-depth and nosey. Their kids are gonna hate it, but know the passwords and know your kids as friends because I always think if Casey's dad hadn't known Casey's friends, the investigation would have stalled out somewhere."

• 1:04:07Speaker 00

  And, you know, as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, it's a tragic case, but it is also one of those cases that I'm sure led to a lot of talks between parents and kids. I'm sure a lot of kids also, like you just said, maybe lost that, "Oh, it'll never happen to me" feeling.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:04:30Speaker 00

  And started to make sure that they safeguarded their information online a little bit more. But it is a fine line, right? About being too nosey, not being nosey enough. But for me, you know, if I got an air on the side of caution, I'm going nosey.

• 1:04:48Speaker 01

  Same here. Yep. Got to protect your kids.

• 1:04:51Speaker 00

  And maybe one day they'll appreciate it. It won't be right then and there, I can tell you that.

• 1:04:55Speaker 01

  Of course not. No, you'd be the worst parent ever.

• 1:04:58Speaker 00

  Yeah. But maybe later on. But that's it for our episode on Casey Woody. We got a voicemail. You want to check that out?

• 1:05:07Speaker 01

  Let's hear it.

• 1:05:08Speaker 02

  Hey, Mike and Gibby. This is Al from Massachusetts, the Adams, Massachusetts area. And I am rehashing the True Crime All The Time Unsolved podcast and listened again to the Molly Bish episode. And I have a dear friend that lives in Massachusetts who, um, her sister had been murdered. Lisa Ziegert, you should, uh, uh, check out, um, that crime and, uh, the amazing way that it had been solved after, uh, so many years.

• 1:05:49Speaker 02

  And the love that the family had for their daughter and sister and how they would never let it rest and how a lot of the local people, some of them were suspects for years and could not get out from under that shadow. But anyway, you guys are great. I'm not Team Gibby. I'm not Team Mike. I'm Team True Crime. You guys are one of the best podcasts on on social media. Love you guys. Talk to you soon. Bye.

• 1:06:25Speaker 00

  All right. Love you too, brother, and appreciate all the kudos. It really means a lot.

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  Absolutely, man. I'd like to hear that.

• 1:06:32Speaker 00

  Yeah. And also, that case does sound fascinating. So we're going to write it down and we'll check it out.

• 1:06:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:37Speaker 00

  We had some mailbag, Gibbs.

• 1:06:39Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:06:40Speaker 00

  Lori Quatriocci sent us in some Harley poker chips and Charles Thompson sent a big old package all the way from Scotland.

• 1:06:50Speaker 01

  All right.

• 1:06:51Speaker 00

  There's some football stuff in there.

• 1:06:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:53Speaker 00

  Some flags, some candy, some Scottish drinks, I think.

• 1:06:58Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 1:07:00Speaker 00

  Chocolates. There's a lot.

• 1:07:01Speaker 01

  Right up your alley, you Scottish person, you.

• 1:07:04Speaker 00

  I know. As I always say, if it's not Scottish, it's crop.

• 1:07:10Speaker 00

  All right, buddy. That is it for another episode of True Crime All The Time. So for Mike.

• 1:07:15Speaker 01

  And Gibby.

• 1:07:15Speaker 00

  Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.