Pod Insights True Crime All The Time Long Island Serial Killer Part 3 About this episode Rex Heuermann was arrested in Manhattan on July 13, 2023, and identified by authorities as the Long Island serial killer. At the time of arrest, he allegedly possessed another burner phone tied to suspicious searches and activity.
Join Mike and Gibby for part 3 of the Long Island Serial Killer case as they examine the extensive investigative work that linked Heuermann to the Gilgo Beach murders, his personal background, and the aftermath of his arrest.
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1:54 Speaker 00 Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 502 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gaby, how are you?
2:04 Speaker 01 I'm doing good, man, and you?
2:06 Speaker 00 I'm doing great.
2:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:07 Speaker 00 This episode is gonna come out kinda after Crime Con.
2:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:12 Speaker 00 Uh, on the Sunday where we're coming back. Obviously, we're recording it before we go, so we can't really talk about how it went, but I'm assuming it'll be great.
2:21 Speaker 01 Yeah, we have some stories to talk about when we get back.
2:24 Speaker 00 Yeah, next week, we'll talk about it next week. Uh, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Chloe Eard.
2:29 Speaker 01 Hey, Eard.
2:30 Speaker 00 Stacy.
2:31 Speaker 01 Hey, Stacy.
2:32 Speaker 00 Claire Mathias.
2:33 Speaker 01 Well, thanks, Claire.
2:34 Speaker 00 Constance.
2:35 Speaker 01 Uh, I love some Constance.
2:36 Speaker 00 Katie.
2:37 Speaker 01 What's going on, Katie?
2:38 Speaker 00 And Sally Everhart jumped out at her highest level.
2:41 Speaker 01 Everhart with a big old heart.
2:43 Speaker 00 Yeah, so we appreciate the new support. And then if we go back into the vault. This week, we selected Wendy Webster.
2:50 Speaker 01 Well, thanks, double, double, double W.
2:53 Speaker 00 Okay, that almost didn't come out.
2:55 Speaker 01 It almost did not.
2:55 Speaker 00 We appreciate all the support we get. Um, we have a brand new episode out right now on Unsolved where we're talking about 22-year-old Francesca Alvarado, a devoted single mother. She took this trip to Atlantic City, supposed to be a one-night trip in March 2002, but she never returned.
3:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:14 Speaker 00 And then, over a year later, parts of her remains washed up on the beach, and then more parts started washing up.
3:24 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:25 Speaker 00 It's a, yeah, it's a tragic but very mysterious story. So make sure you check it out. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All The Time?
3:34 Speaker 01 I am.
3:35 Speaker 00 We're on to part three, on the Long Island Serial Killer. In part two, we covered the discovery of additional bodies in the Gilgo Beach area, the links among the victims, and followed the investigation through 2022. In part three, we'll cover how a Suffolk County Task Force identified the suspect, as well as his arrest and background. In February 2022, Suffolk County Police Commissioner Rodney Harrison and Suffolk County DA Rare T- Rare?
4:10 Speaker 01 Rare.
4:10 Speaker 00 Ray.
4:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
4:12 Speaker 00 Tierney formed the Gilgo Beach Homicide Investigation Task Force. Investigators initiated what they called a comprehensive review of every item of evidence in the case.
4:25 Speaker 01 I think that's a good thing to do.
4:27 Speaker 00 It's a great thing to do. It also must be, uh, you know, a pretty painstaking, uh, undertaking.
4:35 Speaker 00 Kind of hard to say, but.
4:36 Speaker 01 Yeah.
4:37 Speaker 00 But I don't know.
4:38 Speaker 01 He, I think in that line of business, it's going to be like that.
4:42 Speaker 00 Yeah, I think a lot of things when you're, you know, referring to that type of investigative work, I'm sure is a little tedious.
4:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
4:52 Speaker 00 You know, looking through and maybe relooking through things.
4:58 Speaker 01 They always say it's just can be one tiny little thing.
5:02 Speaker 00 Well, I think that's true.
5:03 Speaker 01 That can, you know, take the case in a certain direction.
5:06 Speaker 00 Just six weeks later, on March 14th, 2022, they had identified a man named Rex Hureman as a suspect. The police looked further into Amber Costello's phone records from 2010. Her roommate had mentioned that a client was calling her nonstop before her disappearance and murder. The police knew that the client used a burner phone. They also knew that Maureen Brainerd Barnes, Megan Waterman, and Melissa Bartholomew also received calls from burner phones.
5:41 Speaker 01 Yeah, so there's a tie in most likely there.
5:43 Speaker 00 And we talked quite a bit about it, the similarities, right? Between these victims and the burner phones was one of those. Back in 2012, the police, with the help of the FBI, determined that most of the burner phone calls received by the Gilgo Four connected to cell towers inside a small area of Massapequa Park, a village on Long Island. This area became known as the box.
6:13 Speaker 01 Okay.
6:14 Speaker 00 All right.
6:14 Speaker 01 I mean, it's cool what technology can do and they can zone in on that.
6:19 Speaker 00 Okay. I like the sound effects.
6:21 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:22 Speaker 00 You're assuming that's why they're called it the box because they've like boxed it in?
6:27 Speaker 01 Yep.
6:28 Speaker 00 Based on the description of the suspect in the Amber Costello case, the 2022 task force began searching for a large man who lived in this area and owned a first generation Chevy Avalanche.
6:41 Speaker 01 I mean, odds are good. They should be able to find somebody that matches that description.
6:46 Speaker 00 Yeah, an ogre driving a Chevy Avalanche shouldn't be that hard to find. A Chevy Avalanche was registered to Rex Hureman at the time of the murders, and it's six foot four. You know, he kind of did match the description. And I'm not saying every guy that's six four is an ogre.
7:05 Speaker 01 No.
7:06 Speaker 00 But, uh, you know, he wasn't Slim Jim the Raindrop Dodger either.
7:09 Speaker 01 I mean, it kind of looks like an ogre.
7:11 Speaker 00 He's, he's a pretty big guy, not just tall. He's a little portly as well. The discovery of the Avalanche led to a comprehensive investigation of Hureman. When investigators checked his personal phone records, they discovered his phone was in the same area as the burner phones when they were used to contact a victim in Massapequa Park or in midtown Manhattan where Hureman worked. This was also true for the calls received by Melissa Bartholomew's family in 2009. And we talked about those, right? They were nasty.
7:47 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:48 Speaker 00 I mean, the things that he said about Melissa, uh, the things that, that he said about, uh, her sister Amanda, just vile stuff.
7:57 Speaker 01 But here's a guy thinking, you know what? I, I, I'm going to get a burner, I'm going to get a burner phone.
8:03 Speaker 00 Hmm.
8:03 Speaker 01 And I'm gonna beat the system.
8:04 Speaker 00 Sure.
8:05 Speaker 01 But he doesn't think enough about it, right? Cause he's, he's still bringing his own phone with him, right? Tearing it around.
8:13 Speaker 00 Just because he's not using it.
8:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:17 Speaker 00 Yeah, I, I get it, but it also may be, ah, it could be a couple of things. It could be not understanding fully technology, but it also could be thinking, well, they're never going to connect me to the burner phone. So what does it matter?
8:31 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's true.
8:32 Speaker 00 Where my regular phone is. According to court documents, investigators could find no instance where Hureman was in a separate location from these other cell phones when such a communication event occurred.
8:47 Speaker 01 Good for him.
8:47 Speaker 00 No, not, not good, not, not. The nail in the coffin, but it's not good at all. In total, there were seven burner phones. Shortly after each victim died, the phones were disposed of. Now, when you look at it like that, it's even worse, right? It's not like they just connected him to one phone. They connected him to seven different phones. And each one of the previous ones was disposed of right after a victim died.
9:17 Speaker 01 Yeah, and the burner phones were connected to the victims, right?
9:20 Speaker 00 Mm hmm. And I, I think if you're investigators, right? You're maybe in the war room making these discoveries. And I mean, people are probably high fiving.
9:29 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
9:30 Speaker 00 They're probably cheering because this is such a big, you know, unsolved case at the time. In 2023, officers observed Hureman putting money on one of his accounts at a cell phone store in midtown Manhattan. He used the burner phones to send selfies to solicit and arrange for sexual activity, according to prosecutors. His American Express records revealed recurring Google payment payments made by Rex to Tinder linked to a burner phone. A review of call records for two additional burner phones revealed both phones were used extensively between 2021 and 2023
10:14 Speaker 00 for prostitution-related contacts.
10:17 Speaker 01 So obviously he had a pension.
10:21 Speaker 00 It's a great word.
10:22 Speaker 01 For sex workers.
10:24 Speaker 00 Yep. I think that's very safe to say.
10:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
10:28 Speaker 00 The task force also documented three email accounts using fake names such as John Springfield, Thomas Hawk, and Hunter 1903 A3, all linked to the burner numbers.
10:44 Speaker 01 You know, the, the good thing there is we did not hear the name Rex West.
10:48 Speaker 00 Oh, I was gonna add that in. They also found the name Rex West associated to one of these burner phones.
10:56 Speaker 00 Between March 2022 and June 2023, one of the accounts linked to Hureman searched the internet for sites related to active and known serial killers, the specific disappearances and murders of Maureen Brainerd Barnes, Melissa Bartholomew, Megan Waterman, and Amber Costello, and the investigation into their murders, as well as thousands of searches related to sex workers, sadistic and torture-related pornography, and even child pornography.
11:30 Speaker 01 Wow.
11:31 Speaker 00 Um, okay. I mean, obviously, we're talking about a very nasty, vile individual. We know that based on the murders and everything, but you know, it just keeps getting worse, right? The more that comes out, I think, you know, if you take all of this stuff in a vacuum by itself, I say this in a lot of episodes, okay, it doesn't make you look good, but would it be enough to convict? No, probably not. But you start stacking all of these things on top of each other, and it does become very slam dunkish at a certain point.
12:12 Speaker 01 But look at this guy. I mean, he, he's kind of full of himself, right? He's going out searching on what he's done.
12:19 Speaker 00 Yeah. But is that unusual for a serial killer?
12:22 Speaker 01 No, they like that, right? They like to read about themselves.
12:26 Speaker 00 Yep. Now, we're in the internet age, so this guy can very easily search for things about, you know, crimes and the things that he's done. The other thing is, we know that in the past, serial killers have revisited crime scenes. I mean, they do all kinds of stuff. One specific search was, why hasn't the Long Island serial killer been caught? I guess it's a good thing the guy didn't have a Chat GPT back in the day, you know, because he would have been asking it all kinds of questions. The task force began surveilling Herman at the beginning of 2023.
13:06 Speaker 00 On January 26th of that year, the surveillance team recovered a pizza box that he'd thrown into a trash can on Fifth Avenue, which was sent to the Suffolk County Crime Lab for analysis. All right, they gotta get the guy's DNA. And I'll be honest with you, man, I'm always fascinated by the links that the authorities will go to to try to get someone's DNA, whether it's, you know, tailing them, surveilling them, waiting for them to drink out of a straw, and then, you know, pouncing and picking it with a glove and throwing it into a baggie or whatever it is. Now, a pizza box is a little different, but, you know, DNA's on everything, pretty much, so.
13:51 Speaker 01 My DNA's all over here.
13:53 Speaker 00 I know. I'm not happy about it either. On April 28th, 2023, a detective hand-delivered a male hair found on Megan Waterman's body that had been presented as evidence to the same lab. On June 12th of that year, the lab compared the DNA from the pizza crust and the hair and determined that the profiles were the same. And that 99.96% of the North American population could be excluded.
14:25 Speaker 01 Well, that's huge.
14:26 Speaker 00 It is. Now, is that, you know, the one in however many trillion numbers that we're hearing, you know, nowadays? No, but it's still a very, very high likelihood that this is him. And then, again, as we're stacking the building blocks of a case, that's just another thing that is, you know, going to doom him. Prosecutors wrote, it's significant that Hureman cannot be excluded from the male hair recovered near the bottom of the burlap used to restrain and transport Megan Waterman's naked and deceased body.
15:06 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, it's basically saying he's the one that did that.
15:10 Speaker 00 Yeah, to the exclusion of what 99.9% of all the people in North America.
15:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
15:19 Speaker 00 However, advancements in DNA technology allowed for testing with mitochondrial DNA of, you know, hairs that were found with each victim, but they were worried because they were too degraded to test for DNA with kind of the old technique.
15:41 Speaker 01 Yeah.
15:41 Speaker 00 So the, these advancements were huge.
15:44 Speaker 01 Makes it tough, right?
15:45 Speaker 00 Yeah, well, it would have been impossible if they had tried to do this, you know, let's say five, 10, maybe years earlier.
15:54 Speaker 01 I mean, again, thank goodness for technology.
15:57 Speaker 00 It's helped solve a lot of cases, especially in the area of DNA for sure. Back in July 2022, 11 bottles were collected from a trash can outside Hureman's home and sent for DNA testing. DNA profiles were generated from the bottles and were tested against previously tested hair samples from the remains of Megan Waterman and Amber Costello. The hair belonged to Hureman's wife, Asa Ellerup. However, investigators did not believe his wife was involved in the murders and the hair could, you know, be explained by something like as simple as a transfer because they did live together.
16:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
16:41 Speaker 00 I mean, that, I don't think everybody realizes, I'm sure a lot of people do because, you know, our viewers and listeners, they're smart, right? But I don't know that everybody realizes that, you know, we're just transferring hairs and DNA all over the place.
17:00 Speaker 01 Like I said, mine's all over here.
17:02 Speaker 00 I know, and please stop saying it. I've heard it enough and I don't want to think about it, but I mean, how hard would it be for, you know, we ate dinner together tonight before we started recording our episodes and it was me, you, my wife, my daughter. I'm sure my wife's hair is all over the place, right?
17:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
17:25 Speaker 00 My hair is all over the place. How hard would it be to attach to your clothing? Then you get into your vehicle, you drive home now, my hair, my wife's hair is in your home.
17:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, your, your wife's hair or your daughter's hair. Let's not go as far with your hair, but.
17:43 Speaker 00 From the back, I have some in the back still that could, you know, theoretically fall out.
17:49 Speaker 01 Well, you have to think, you know, that's very possible.
17:51 Speaker 00 Yeah.
17:51 Speaker 01 And I'm sure I do have, you know, somebody in your family's hair there.
17:57 Speaker 00 Uh, I mean.
17:58 Speaker 01 Or at least your dogs or cats too.
17:59 Speaker 00 You're here every week, so.
18:01 Speaker 01 It's gonna happen.
18:02 Speaker 00 The chances of it being in your vehicle and, and probably transferring it into your home, I'd say are pretty high.
18:09 Speaker 01 But the fact that they have his wife's hair, I think that's a, that's another confirmation, right? I mean, it's not his, but it's his wife's and how else could that get there?
18:20 Speaker 00 Well, either she's involved, which they don't think she is, or it's because he's a murderer.
18:26 Speaker 01 Yep.
18:27 Speaker 00 And he happened to have the, you know, one of her hairs on him and it somehow ended up on the victim. A hair from Amber Costello's remains was tested and also matched the DNA on a bottle. Prosecutors wrote that this meant it is likely that the burlap, tape, vehicles and other items used in the murders came from Hureman's home. I mean, I think the one thing you'd have to say is it is not looking good for Rex Hureman.
18:56 Speaker 01 No.
18:56 Speaker 00 I mean, they are just building, you know, brick after brick against him.
19:05 Speaker 00 Rex Schirman was arrested at his office in midtown Manhattan on July 13th, 2023. At the time of his arrest, he was carrying a burner phone linked to an email account used to conduct suspicious online searches. This man is like the burner phone king.
19:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, he probably owned some stock in it.
19:28 Speaker 00 Well, I'm assuming a large part of that is because he's married.
19:33 Speaker 01 Yes.
19:33 Speaker 00 Doesn't want his wife knowing all of this stuff. I mean, this is aside from the murders.
19:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, this is.
19:41 Speaker 00 Because he is cheating. He's obviously on Tinder and soliciting sex workers and doing all this other stuff in addition to what they believe are these murders that he committed.
19:55 Speaker 01 I mean, he's taking ogre selfies.
19:58 Speaker 00 Yeah.
19:58 Speaker 01 Sending them out to, you know.
20:00 Speaker 00 I think he's probably got it a little further south, but maybe I don't know what this guy was doing. Oh, man. He was charged with multiple counts of murder for the deaths of Melissa, Megan, and Amber. Schirman appeared in court on July 14th, and he pleaded not guilty to three counts of first degree murder and three counts of second degree murder. Court documents released after his arrest noted that while he wasn't charged with the murder of Maureen Brainerd Barnes, he was the main suspect. So to me, that just means they didn't, they didn't find any DNA.
20:42 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:42 Speaker 00 Match. But, you know, let's go back to, you know, where were the victims dumped?
20:49 Speaker 01 Right.
20:50 Speaker 00 The proximity, it's hard not to believe that one person didn't commit all those murders. So how could he not be the main suspect? But there is a certain level of evidence needed, right, to, to charge. Schirman's defense attorney, Michael J. Brown, told reporters that the accusations were circumstantial and Schirman denied any involvement. He said, the only thing he did say as he was in tears was, I didn't do this. He's distraught. He's clearly distraught about the charges here.
21:24 Speaker 01 Oh, tears.
21:28 Speaker 00 His six foot four ogre just crying his eyes out. But yeah, I'm sure he is clearly distraught. Who wouldn't be if they were charged with multiple murders?
21:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, cuz he knows what that means. It's not going to be good.
21:42 Speaker 00 Yeah. Now, if you didn't do it, you're distraught for a number of reasons. But even if you did it, you're still distraught because you got caught.
21:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
21:52 Speaker 00 Right? So, and what's he gonna say? Yeah, I did it. Yeah, some people do, but not most.
21:58 Speaker 01 At least not up front, they're not.
22:00 Speaker 00 Not, not in the beginning. You don't wanna cave right in the beginning. During a press conference, Suffolk County Police Commissioner Rodney Harrison told the media, Rex Hurman is a demon that walks among us, a predator that ruined families. Man's a demon.
22:17 Speaker 01 Right here.
22:18 Speaker 00 Frog demon.
22:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:19 Speaker 00 I don't argue with that one bit. Commissioner Harrison added, Hurman had a double life. He had a wife, he had two kids, he was an architect. And then I guess at nighttime, it turned into a monster.
22:34 Speaker 01 You know, we've heard this before with other serial killers, right?
22:37 Speaker 00 Yeah. Unfortunately, a lot of them do lead double lives. And when it all comes out, their families are shocked.
22:43 Speaker 01 Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I mean, they can't, they can't even comprehend it and, and I don't even know how they, they pull it off. I mean, when you think about it.
22:53 Speaker 00 I don't either. I, I kinda sometimes think back to, you know, we both love the show Dexter. And obviously, at a certain point in that show, he got married.
23:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
23:04 Speaker 00 And he, I mean, he was leading a double life from the get-go, but then he was really leading a double life and had to be even more careful because, you know, he's got a wife and then at some point he has a child and, and all of that.
23:18 Speaker 01 I think about the second episode we ever did on DCAT. Well, that you did on DCAT of the Iceman and then.
23:26 Speaker 00 Were you not there?
23:27 Speaker 01 We, we redid it later.
23:30 Speaker 00 Oh, that's right. I did. I had to do it by myself for some reason. Why was that?
23:33 Speaker 01 Cuz you wanted to see how the podcast would go without Gibby sitting next to you.
23:38 Speaker 00 Oh, that's true. I didn't like it.
23:39 Speaker 01 Yeah.
23:39 Speaker 00 Did not like it.
23:41 Speaker 01 But I remember, you know, he was like, when he was home, he was like this perfect family guy.
23:47 Speaker 00 Oh, yeah. And, and actually a good.
23:50 Speaker 01 A good family guy. But we know when he left.
23:53 Speaker 00 He was killing people.
23:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
23:55 Speaker 00 He was a serious, serious hitman. Suffolk County DA Raymond Tierney revealed that the investigation involved over 300 subpoenas and search warrants. It does seem like a very high number.
24:07 Speaker 01 It is a high number.
24:09 Speaker 00 The task force had to balance evidence gathering with public safety. They wanted to allow the grand jury investigation to go further, but they also felt like they had to take this guy down.
24:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
24:20 Speaker 00 And I, I understand the balance there, but I think they did the right thing because this guy's walking around with another burner phone. He is talking with or soliciting sex workers. I mean, isn't it just a matter of time before he claims another victim?
24:41 Speaker 01 Very true. You ever been in a part of a grand jury?
24:45 Speaker 00 I have not. Have you?
24:47 Speaker 01 Part of a grand jury?
24:48 Speaker 00 No. This is the subject of a grand jury? I've definitely not been that. DA Tierney said, when we decided to take down the case, we, you know, it was a sudden decision. We did see him contacting a number of sex workers using a burner phone, which obviously is concerning. Tierney said about Hureman's internet searches, there was a lot of torture, porn and depictions of women being abused, being raped and being killed.
25:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, this guy was sick.
25:20 Speaker 00 He was. Sick in his actions, but also sick in his fetishes.
25:26 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
25:26 Speaker 00 And, and I'm sure some of that maybe had a, or played a large part in what he ultimately decided to do in real life, right? Some people can keep their fetishes, even when they're sick, separate from real life. Doesn't sound like he could or didn't want to either way.
25:47 Speaker 01 Yeah, he decided to cross into the real world.
25:50 Speaker 00 Hureman was conducting searches on the task force, even on the victims. According to Tierney, he was searching for pictures of their families and trying to locate those individuals. Why? So he could call them and harass them, drive by their house and get a sick thrill out of that?
26:11 Speaker 01 I think he really did get off.
26:16 Speaker 01 Maybe literally as well on doing that.
26:19 Speaker 00 I assumed when you said that you were, you meant literally, but.
26:24 Speaker 01 I, I think he looked at the family members too, because I think if he found somebody that resembled the victim, I think it really did something for him. And to the point, maybe he wanted to see if he could get ahold of them.
26:39 Speaker 00 Maybe. Yeah, you might be on to something there. The police spent the next 12 days searching Herman's property. They dug in the yard and seized 279 weapons.
26:53 Speaker 01 Wow. Wow. Whoa.
26:56 Speaker 00 And 92 handgun permits from a walk-in vault in the basement. Investigators also took framed pictures and a doll from the home and searched a nearby storage unit. They brought in ground penetrating sonar and cadaver dogs.
27:14 Speaker 01 I'm trying to think what this doll must have looked like.
27:17 Speaker 00 Did you say doll or dog?
27:18 Speaker 01 The doll.
27:19 Speaker 00 Oh, doll. I can picture what the dog looked like.
27:22 Speaker 01 No, the doll.
27:23 Speaker 00 Regular doll. Yeah, I, I don't know what they mean by doll.
27:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
27:29 Speaker 00 I don't know if we're talking about like a cabbage patch kid here, or
27:33 Speaker 01 Or like that doll you have.
27:34 Speaker 00 The life-size variety that you keep under your bed, which you always tell me not to talk about, but I'm bringing it up anyway. But let's go back to 279 weapons.
27:45 Speaker 01 Wow, yeah.
27:47 Speaker 00 You know, I, I understand a lot of people, they like to have something to defend themselves, to defend their home. I don't know why anybody needs 279 weapons. Unless you're going to start an uprising or arm a small militia.
28:05 Speaker 01 92 handguns? I mean.
28:07 Speaker 00 Well, 92 handgun permits.
28:10 Speaker 01 Yeah, permits.
28:11 Speaker 00 But that would mean what? You probably have 92 handguns somewhere.
28:15 Speaker 01 Yeah. Why so many handguns?
28:17 Speaker 00 Why so many guns, period? Or weapons, period? Investigators seized the first generation Chevy avalanche. I cannot say the word avalanche for some reason.
28:28 Speaker 01 You know.
28:29 Speaker 00 We're gonna go with it. From his property in South Carolina. According to law enforcement sources, investigators were looking into whether any victims were killed at Herman's home.
28:41 Speaker 00 I mean, I think you got to keep everything on the table.
28:43 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
28:44 Speaker 00 At this point. And I think you also have to wonder, and we're going to talk about it as we go. I mean, how many victims could this guy possibly have?
28:54 Speaker 01 Oh, much more.
28:56 Speaker 00 At this point in the investigation, right? They have to be thinking that.
28:59 Speaker 01 Sure.
29:00 Speaker 00 How prolific of a serial killer are we dealing with here? Residents of Massa Piqua Park told CBS New York, they were stunned by the arrest. Herman's next door neighbor, A T N de Villier? Said, we've been here for almost 30 years and the guy's been quiet, never really bothers anybody.
29:24 Speaker 01 It's kind of what you hear some.
29:26 Speaker 00 We hear it all the time, you know, right? Great neighbor, this guy, uh, he plowed my, uh, driveway of snow. He helped me bring in the groceries. Well, you know, this guy's quiet. He never bothers anybody. That's because he's plotting a murder 24 seven. He doesn't have time to bother anybody else.
29:46 Speaker 01 You know, you, everybody knows somebody that's super quiet and never really says much.
29:50 Speaker 00 Those are people you gotta worry about.
29:51 Speaker 01 Right. Which, you know.
29:53 Speaker 00 See, I am very talkative. You, on the other hand, are reserved and less verbose.
30:00 Speaker 01 Yeah.
30:01 Speaker 00 Hence, there's probably something wrong with you.
30:04 Speaker 01 Well, there's no doubt there's something wrong with me. I don't think we're ever.
30:08 Speaker 00 Is we're really talking about the degree at this point, right? Former neighbor Rosemary Kafka told NBC, you know, the regular guy who goes to work, has kids in the local school and in a good neighborhood, but he's killing people on the side. And I do think that would be shocking to not, not just family, right? It's going to be unbelievably shocking to your wife and kids, but also neighbors. You know, you've been living next to this person for years and years and years. All of a sudden you find out that investigators think he's this very prolific serial killer?
30:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
30:46 Speaker 00 Yeah, there's gonna be some discussions.
30:48 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
30:49 Speaker 00 At a dinner around that. So let's talk about Rex Hearn. He was born on September 13th, 1963, and he grew up in Massapequa Park in a quiet neighborhood where everyone knew everyone. It was said that he was born in the house that he was raised in.
31:09 Speaker 01 Okay, so long, uh, long-term homestead.
31:15 Speaker 00 Okay. Um, well, most people are not born in a house.
31:23 Speaker 01 No, that's true.
31:24 Speaker 00 So I think you're skipping over that part. I think that's the main part.
31:28 Speaker 01 His mama popped him out inside the house.
31:30 Speaker 00 Yes, I think is, is what they're saying.
31:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
31:34 Speaker 00 After the arrest, actor Billy Baldwin tweeted, woke up this morning to learn that the Gilgo Beach serial killer suspect was my high school classmate, Rex Hearn.
31:46 Speaker 01 Uh, you know, hey, Billy, you probably were, uh, super shocked, but, uh,
31:51 Speaker 00 Yeah. Well, I mean, there's so many Baldwins. There's got to be a connection.
31:55 Speaker 01 Somewhere.
31:56 Speaker 00 Somewhere between one of them to some serial killer. They graduated from Burner High School in 1981. Rex's childhood friend, John Parisi, told 48 Hours that they met in first or second grade. Hearn was bullied and he never fought back despite the fact that he was big enough to physically retaliate against his enemies.
32:21 Speaker 01 Yeah. He just didn't want to, huh?
32:24 Speaker 00 Maybe he was scared. I don't know. But obviously at some point he was six foot four and I, he must've weighed over 300 pounds. He was, he was a big guy. And then as Rex got older, girls rejected him. Right? It was said that his awkward stage, which we all kind of go through one, um, just lasted a lot longer than other people's.
32:47 Speaker 01 Looks, kind of looks like he'd have an awkward stage that lasted a little longer.
32:52 Speaker 00 Yeah. I mean, he had a strange look to him.
32:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
32:55 Speaker 00 Rex's father, Theodore Hearn, died in 1975 at the age of 50. His mother, Dolores, uh, I think even right now is in her 90s. And as far as I know, she is still alive.
33:08 Speaker 01 So it sounds like maybe his mom was more of the role model for him. Not role model, but the person that um took care of him and because his dad dying it, you know.
33:21 Speaker 00 Died.
33:21 Speaker 01 Pretty early.
33:22 Speaker 00 Pretty early. Yeah, I see where you're going with that. Classmates previously said Rex was bizarrely close to his controlling mother and described him as a mama's boy.
33:34 Speaker 01 Yeah, I can see that. I can see that. Kind of what's the uh Ed Gein? When his mom kind of controlling and he was definitely a mama's boy.
33:47 Speaker 00 Yeah.
33:48 Speaker 01 So.
33:49 Speaker 00 So much so that he wanted to wear a suit.
33:53 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:53 Speaker 00 Of a woman. But it was said that he'd often kind of leave hanging out with friends saying, I have to get home to my mother. Alright, so you said Ed Gein, maybe we got a little uh, you know. Ed Kemper here, I mean, obviously Ed had his own issues with his mom, but uh. Huherman never spoke about his father to friends. However, he later bragged that his dad was an aerospace engineer. Built satellites. He also said that his dad built cabinets and taught him how to construct furniture. In 1990, Huherman married a woman named Elizabeth Ryan.
34:32 Speaker 00 In 1994, he purchased the house in Massapequa Park from his mother for a hundred and seventy thousand dollars. Shortly after his first marriage failed, it was said that he kept everything exactly the same from his childhood. So you mentioned homestead, right? Long-term homestead. And now you find out what it really was long-term because not only was he born in this house, he grew up in this house. But then as an adult, he bought the house from his mom and made it his family home. I mean, I don't say this is like, you know, the Bates Motel or something, but I'm getting a real strange vibe.
35:10 Speaker 01 Clearly, this was where he was comfortable at and probably enjoyed having that as his main house.
35:18 Speaker 00 But here's the thing, it's not weird to buy a home from your family, right? A home that you grew up in. Uh, Jim did it on the office and him and Pam moved in.
35:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:31 Speaker 00 It's fine. But to not change it at all, to keep it the way that you were when you were a child.
35:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:39 Speaker 00 That part seems very strange to me.
35:42 Speaker 01 Yeah, I find it strange.
35:43 Speaker 00 And I think other people did as well. Hureman founded his New York City architecture firm RH Consultants and Associates in 1994, per the company website. His firm was located blocks from where Maureen Brainerd Barnes disappeared and the same area where several phone calls to Melissa Bartholomew's younger sister were made. Hureman worked with major clients, including Target, Foot Locker, Catholic Charities, American Airlines, and New York City's Department of Environmental Protection.
36:20 Speaker 01 So he was connected.
36:23 Speaker 00 I mean, it sounds like he was doing pretty well for himself, right? He had a company. He was an architect. I'm sure that huge companies like Target and American Airlines and Foot Locker love the fact that they're connected to Rex Hureman in any way. According to his website's Meet the Team page, throughout the years Rex Hureman has provided services to other city agencies, not-for-profit agencies, builders, developers, and individual owners of buildings in regard to ADA, NYC, and New York State codes, as well as zoning consul- consultation.
37:03 Speaker 01 It sounds like the firm was successful, busy.
37:06 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, I understand half of that, but yeah, I mean, no, I know. I, he, that's your language, Mensa, and you are an architect slash doctor slash attorney slash catch me if you can, but I mean, I'm just a humble podcaster.
37:25 Speaker 01 I worked in the architect field. I learned from, you know, Art Van de Lae. So I learned a lot.
37:33 Speaker 00 Yeah. Yep. That's why you had that license plate that said ass man.
37:38 Speaker 01 Exactly.
37:40 Speaker 00 Cause you were also a proctologist.
37:44 Speaker 00 But no, I mean, I think when, you know, because we do talk a lot about the victims and you get a sense of who they they were as a person. It's also important though, to talk about Hureman. You know, what was his background? What was it like growing up? This whole kind of mama's boy thing is a little strange.
38:03 Speaker 01 Sure.
38:04 Speaker 00 Takes it, cause I, I think a lot of guys are mama's boy to, to mama's boys to a certain extent, right? All right. You love your mama. I get that. But, you know, are you wearing her bathrobe? Or are you not changing the house because mama wouldn't like it? I mean, I just don't know how deep we are here.
38:24 Speaker 01 There's something there.
38:25 Speaker 00 There is. And it doesn't seem right to me.
38:31 Speaker 01 You know, we were talking about, you know, he went to school with one of the Baldwins and then he started this firm. All these people, you know, this is coming out in the news. I mean, the people he works with, people, clients. I mean, what are they thinking? Are they just shaking their heads? Are they like?
38:47 Speaker 00 Ah, yeah.
38:49 Speaker 01 How disgust?
38:50 Speaker 00 I'm assuming they're making a call real quick saying, hey, can you please get our name off your website? As soon as possible to some admin somewhere.
39:00 Speaker 00 Also though, like 27% of all Americans probably went to school with a Baldwin at some point. And I'm not just even talking about the last name Baldwin. I'm talking about the Baldwin family of actors.
39:12 Speaker 01 Yeah. Well, you know, me and Steven went to school together.
39:15 Speaker 00 I know.
39:15 Speaker 01 So, you know, yeah.
39:17 Speaker 00 There's a, there's a lot of Baldwins, man.
39:19 Speaker 01 There is.
39:20 Speaker 00 So we said that, you know, he had married, his marriage fell apart. Then in 1996, Hureman married Asa Eller, an immigrant from Iceland. Asa had a son named Christopher Sheridan. She and Rex had one child together. They had a daughter named Victoria Hureman. Asa usually took the kids to visit her family in Iceland during the summer. Police believe Hureman killed the victims while she was away.
39:50 Speaker 01 You know, that was the opportunity time for him, right? The, when the wife is gone.
39:56 Speaker 00 Yep.
39:57 Speaker 01 The husband will play.
39:59 Speaker 00 I mean, you know, we talk about, and I think you asked a question, right? How do you do all this stuff when you have a wife, children? You're leading this double life? How are you pulling it off?
40:10 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:11 Speaker 00 Well, I think this is one way. You know, if the wife and kids are gone for an entire summer. Well, that's a big opportunity to go out hunting. Do all this stuff with the burner phones and all of that that you probably couldn't do as easily if everybody was home.
40:33 Speaker 01 Totally agree.
40:34 Speaker 00 It was said that the family lived in the rundown home, right? That he was born in and generally kept to themselves. But Hureman stood out to his neighbors because he was a large man who dressed very formally for work.
40:49 Speaker 01 And he did, didn't he? I remember seeing some pictures of him. He's really.
40:52 Speaker 00 Suit and tie guy.
40:53 Speaker 01 Tie, but like, look like custom. Well, he is 6'4", probably was custom suits.
40:57 Speaker 00 Well, it was like Shrek wearing a suit.
40:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:59 Speaker 00 I think is what they thought. He wasn't green, but you know, he was tall. He was big. His neighbor Barry Oslander told the AP that it was strange how the house was a dump. But Hureman commuted to work each day wearing a suit and tie. And it is strange, right? You own your own architectural firm?
41:21 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:21 Speaker 00 You're working with Target and Foot Locker and American Airlines, yet you're living in a dump?
41:27 Speaker 01 You don't want to spend the money on your own home to dress it up, make it look better?
41:30 Speaker 00 It seems weird. Neighbor Gabrielle Libarto also told the AP, this house sticks out like a sore thumb. There was overgrown shrubs. There was always wood in front of the house. It was very creepy. I wouldn't send my child there.
41:45 Speaker 01 It sounds creepy.
41:47 Speaker 00 Yeah. Probably a good thing you didn't send your child there.
41:50 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:51 Speaker 00 Herman's friend David Jimenez said about his family life, per the New York Post, he ruled that house like the old 1950s style family, traditional, right? He was very secure, very much a man, but in a very secure masculine way, not in an obnoxious way. He looked after his wife and kids. He would protect Asa. He would look out for her when she was suffering from, you know, many of the physical ailments she has, especially later in life. I think he has a split personality because the only side I ever saw of him was as an assured, smart, together guy, you know?
42:34 Speaker 01 Not surprised that he could have that.
42:37 Speaker 00 Well, I'm never surprised because again, as I've said, and you've said it too, I do believe, right? These types of individuals, they allow you to see what they want you to see. Right? They're, they're putting that forward. They're not showing you the bad part of themselves. They don't want to show you the demon. They want you to think that, hey, you know, this guy's all right. He takes care of his family and he might like live in a shithole, but you know, he's a, he's a nice guy and he's a good neighbor. He's quiet.
43:13 Speaker 01 I mean, as far as you know, when I leave here, I just go home.
43:17 Speaker 00 I don't assume that at all. I assume, I assume you take out your burner phone, which you're not showing us. You've got your real one here, but you take out your burner phone, hit tender and whatever happens after that happens.
43:34 Speaker 01 Christina's like.
43:34 Speaker 00 Your girlfriend's gonna love that.
43:36 Speaker 01 What?
43:37 Speaker 00 That's for you.
43:38 Speaker 01 He's just joking.
43:39 Speaker 00 No, I am not.
43:43 Speaker 00 Oh, I kid.
43:44 Speaker 01 Oh, that's funny.
43:46 Speaker 00 I think, Gibbs, the thing for me here, right, is when you you talk about Rex Schurman, he wasn't like some serial killers, right? You have some who are loners.
43:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:59 Speaker 00 They don't want to draw any attention to themselves, but not this guy. This guy is more of, you know, what you would think of maybe along the lines of a John Wayne Gacy. He's out there. I mean, he's got an architectural firm. He's successful. He had a website. His information was all over the website. He even did an interview in 2022 with Bonjour Realty, which was posted on YouTube. So he wasn't shy, or he wasn't shrinking away from any type of attention. He was interviewed by Antoine Amira, a food and beverage manager
44:42 Speaker 00 in New York who also loves real estate. He interviews people who he thinks are interesting and accomplished. Rex Schurman was well known for finding loopholes to help companies and individuals get building permits.
44:57 Speaker 01 Which is a, you know, a great skill to have.
45:01 Speaker 00 Yeah, because who doesn't want that? Who doesn't need that at some point if you're a business? So this Amira guy thought Rex was pretty smart. He would later tell 48 Hours that there was nothing about Schurman that made him think he was dangerous. Throughout the interview, he noticed that it was hard to get him to smile. Schurman described himself as an architect, an architectural consultant, a troubleshooter. When a job that should have been routine suddenly becomes not routine, I get the phone call. He explained how he was born and raised on Long Island and had been working in Manhattan since 1987. His niche was troubleshooting with the city's Department of Buildings. When he was asked
45:46 Speaker 00 how he got into that, he explained that the first architect he worked for was a man named Harvey Rutherford.
45:53 Speaker 00 In 1987, a new law was issued regarding handicap access. He had to read the law because he was the new guy at the front. So he reads this and when there was an issue with the city, he was sent to work it out. He did so well with it that his boss made him work with the city for another job. And that's how he got started.
46:14 Speaker 01 He became the schmee, the subject matter expert.
46:17 Speaker 00 Yeah, I haven't heard that term in a while.
46:20 Speaker 00 But let's go back and talk about this, this guy on YouTube. There was nothing about this man who made him, that made him think this, this guy was dangerous.
46:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
46:31 Speaker 00 Dangerous to him, let alone a prolific serial killer. And, and that's what I think is scary about a lot of these serial killers is that they're able to pull some of these things off. Right? Be successful, have a, a wife and kids, a family. And then on the side, they are hunting and for and murdering people.
46:56 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, I think there was this something that clicked with him when he was with his victims. That turned him into this monster. But outside of that, it sounded like he was just a kind of a regular guy.
47:10 Speaker 00 Yeah, outside of that, I guess, but yeah, better make that caveat. Or was that always there? He just didn't show it, right? He's putting on, the other part is him putting on the show.
47:22 Speaker 01 Well, that's true.
47:22 Speaker 00 The nice guy. Yeah, I, I don't know. But you know, you want to think of the serial killer is the guy that you would spot on the street. Right? The Henry Lee Lucas type.
47:35 Speaker 01 Yeah.
47:35 Speaker 00 Not the, oh, who's the, the Ted Bundy type?
47:39 Speaker 01 Ted Bundy, BTK, you know?
47:42 Speaker 00 I thought he was kind of weird looking.
47:43 Speaker 01 Did you think he was kind of weird?
47:44 Speaker 00 Yeah. I, I think I would look at BTK and be like, I don't know about that guy. But Ted Bundy was, you know, he's a pretty normal looking guy.
47:52 Speaker 01 Yeah.
47:54 Speaker 00 Obviously went to law school and all that. Now, Henry Lee Lucas.
47:59 Speaker 01 Oh, he.
48:00 Speaker 00 Yeah, I'd cross the street if I saw that guy. 30 yards down the way. I mean, you know, he and Otis, they have like one tooth between the two of them.
48:10 Speaker 01 I'd be like, kids, get in the car. We're leaving the town.
48:12 Speaker 00 Be like Chevy Chase in Vacation. Roll them up.
48:14 Speaker 01 You roll them up.
48:15 Speaker 00 So, all right, so he's got this kind of niche that, you know, he's good at. And he's working for this guy who was doing a lot of work for nonprofits. And Herman started working with building codes, drawings for facilities. And he said that Herman did that he quickly found out that the building department couldn't even understand their own codes and their own laws. So, part of his job became kind of educating the system, the city about their own codes.
48:53 Speaker 01 Yeah, that doesn't surprise me.
48:54 Speaker 00 It doesn't surprise me either. Then when he started his own firm, his first paying client was Robert Meyer. Herman recalled that he was in the Queens Building Department waiting in line. And Meyer was dealing with a clerk, didn't know who, what he was doing. Herman was impatient, so he took his paperwork, explained to the clerk what he needed. Then he explained to Meyer what he needed to do next. Herman was asked what qualities a person in his position needs. His answer, patience and tolerance. He said, I don't like to use the word tolerance, but sometimes you have to. And it's not just with the city, it's also with the client. Because most clients, they don't understand what I have to do.
49:37 Speaker 00 Why I have to do it and what it takes to get done. When asked what the job taught him about himself, he said it taught him how to understand people. Dealing with the technical aspects can be learned, but dealing with people is an interesting aspect of the job. So there was one last question in this interview. And it was asked of Herman, if he was a tool or an object that would help him bring his business to greater heights, what would he be? So I think this is a strange question, but you know.
50:07 Speaker 01 Yeah.
50:08 Speaker 00 He answered, I build furniture at home and I still build it in the same exact workshop. I have one tool that's pretty much used in almost every job. And it's actually a cabinet maker's hammer. It's persuasive enough when I need to persuade something.
50:25 Speaker 01 That's interesting.
50:26 Speaker 00 It is.
50:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
50:28 Speaker 00 And I don't know if he's talking about just making cabinets or talking about something else, but the interview actually asked not someone, you know, persuade something.
50:42 Speaker 01 Yeah.
50:42 Speaker 00 Not someone. So it was just a real kind of interesting back and forth. Now, it wouldn't have been until it comes out what this guy is thought to have done. Herman's wife, Asa, filed for divorce in July 2023, just days after he was arrested. She was told to leave the home with only the clothes she was wearing and wasn't allowed to return during the 12 day search. Investigators seized all devices in the house, including the ones belonging to her and her adult children. Her attorney, Bob Macedonio, said she was as shocked as anyone else. She had no idea any of this was going on. Nobody was to think that they'd
51:26 Speaker 00 been living with, sleeping next to a serial killer for the past 25 years.
51:31 Speaker 01 I'm sure she was physically ill from all this.
51:34 Speaker 00 Yeah. I mean, does it surprise you that she files for divorce immediately upon learning of this? Doesn't me either. Macedonio said about the family, their life going forward is always going to be the wife or the children of a suspected serial killer.
51:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
51:54 Speaker 00 Uh, it's not Bob. It's going to be the wife and children of a convicted serial killer. We haven't gotten to that part yet, and he didn't know it yet. Melissa Moore, the daughter of serial killer Keith Jesperson, set up a GoFundMe for Asa, which raised over $50,000. Asa was diagnosed with breast and skin cancer. Herman was the sole provider. So she lost her health insurance after he was arrested.
52:22 Speaker 01 At least somebody is stepping up to help her. And you think, well, this is somebody who knows what she's going through.
52:29 Speaker 00 Yeah. And, um, you know, she was, uh,
52:33 Speaker 00 Part of that whole happy face killer, the daughter of the happy face killer.
52:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
52:39 Speaker 00 I don't know if you watched that.
52:40 Speaker 01 I did, yeah.
52:41 Speaker 00 She was the daughter of the happy face.
52:43 Speaker 01 Yeah.
52:44 Speaker 00 Hureman's coworkers, Muriel Enriquez and Mary Shell spoke to 48 hours after his arrest. They were in complete shock when they heard he had been charged with murder. Muriel recalled that Rex once gave her a sweater that his wife brought back from Iceland. Most likely the same summer he killed Maureen Brainerd Barnes in 2007.
53:06 Speaker 01 This is scary, you know?
53:09 Speaker 00 The sweater or the fact that he killed someone the same summer?
53:12 Speaker 01 Yeah, and just that relationship, you know, the here's your partner, somebody you worked with.
53:18 Speaker 00 Yeah, well, you and I have worked with a lot of people over the years.
53:21 Speaker 01 Yeah.
53:22 Speaker 00 Many people, some we may have suspected of being serial killers.
53:27 Speaker 01 Sure we did.
53:28 Speaker 00 You know, but to find out that someone actually was that you had worked with for, you know, let's say five, 10, 15, 20, 25 years. That would be very shocking.
53:38 Speaker 01 It would be.
53:39 Speaker 00 Even if you thought they were a little strange and possibly could be to actually find out they were, it would be strange.
53:45 Speaker 01 And what does this do for your living too, right? I mean, if you, if you have a, you know, your partner or you work at his firm.
53:53 Speaker 00 I don't think they were partners. I think he owned it.
53:55 Speaker 01 Yeah, he owned it. They were working at his firm. So now what? Now you're out of a job.
53:59 Speaker 00 Just like his wife, right? I mean, that's horrible. She has like these very serious health conditions. And all of a sudden she has no insurance.
54:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
54:09 Speaker 00 So Emmy, it just goes to show you, right? How many people are affected by these, the actions of these serial killers? Muriel said there was nothing that seemed frightening about Rex. A little bit of a nerd in a way. He liked to talk about himself and what he knew. Not a narcissist, but you know, a bit of a, you know, I know everything kind of guy.
54:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
54:29 Speaker 00 Yeah, we know people like that. She said Rex was an avid hunter, but she was surprised to learn that the police recovered almost 300 firearms from a vault in his basement.
54:39 Speaker 01 I'm still shocked about that.
54:41 Speaker 00 Yeah, that is a huge number. Now she did. Recall one strange incident that she said threw her off. She had booked a cruise to celebrate her 40th birthday. Rex asked her where she was going. She said she was going to be in the middle of the ocean and he wouldn't be able to find her. He replied, oh yes, I can.
54:59 Speaker 01 Oh, okay creepy.
55:01 Speaker 00 And I said it as creepily as I could.
55:03 Speaker 01 Yes, you did.
55:05 Speaker 00 During the second day of her cruise, a white envelope was slipped under her door with a note from Rex that said, I told you I could find you anywhere.
55:14 Speaker 01 Gosh.
55:15 Speaker 00 Okay, that's either, I guess, kind of cool, or it's very, very creepy.
55:23 Speaker 01 Well, after everything comes out, it's definitely creepy.
55:26 Speaker 00 Yeah, it would obviously be creepy after that. Mary Shell started working for Rex in the summer of 2010 when she graduated art school. She spoke to former female employees who felt disrespected by Rex. For example, he would ask a woman in the office to clean toilets if he thought the cleaning staff didn't do a good job. He would also make comments if a woman gained weight.
55:49 Speaker 01 Okay, so one of those type of guys.
55:51 Speaker 00 Yeah, which is kind of horrible, but especially since he was, you know, again, not the skinniest guy in the world. A woman named Nicole Brass later came forward and told 48 Hours that she may have survived an encounter with Hureman. She's now a hairdresser, but she used to do escort work. And one night she was solicited by Rex Hureman. During their date, he seemed excited to talk about the murders. She said he was very detailed and it didn't seem like somebody who was just a true crime fan. He seemed like somebody who, as they talked about it, was kind of reliving it in their head. Like he seemed excited. It piqued his interest.
56:33 Speaker 00 He sat up straighter. He relaxed his body. He seemed like really excited to talk about it.
56:40 Speaker 01 Can we get the check? I need to get out.
56:42 Speaker 00 Or just, yeah, open the door, let me out, whatever the situation was. He also talked specifically about the bodies on Gilgo Beach. She said he wanted to like really get into it. Like he asked me how I thought they could get rid of the bodies without being caught in that area. And I said, like, I've never been over there. I've never even seen Gilgo Beach. And his response, well, it's really dark and desolate.
57:09 Speaker 01 Of course, because he knows.
57:10 Speaker 00 He does know. Nicole left the date early. She recalled, I'd never gone anywhere and like felt fear. My gut was telling me I needed to get away and I never had that before.
57:21 Speaker 01 Somebody was looking out for her that night.
57:23 Speaker 00 Well, or she just had the right, uh, she listened to her gut.
57:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
57:27 Speaker 00 And, and it worked for her. Neighbor Etienne Devilliers, I have a hard time saying that.
57:35 Speaker 01 Yes, you do.
57:35 Speaker 00 Also reported that his wife once caught Hume peeking over the fence at her while she was sunbathing. He complied when he was told to stop. Devilliers said that he never saw a streak of violence, though, in Rex. Again, you're not going to see the monster normally, I don't think, unless the monster wants you to see that side.
57:57 Speaker 01 Just trying to, you know, fence is probably like six foot. He's six foot four.
58:00 Speaker 00 Hey, I'm not peeking over, man. I'm just, I'm just standing here.
58:03 Speaker 01 I'm just here.
58:05 Speaker 00 But, you know, it, does that surprise you? You know, we have somebody who has sexual compulsions, maybe even a sexual addiction. Does it surprise you that he would be like a peeping tom sort and kind of spy on his neighbor's wife who's sunbathing?
58:23 Speaker 01 No.
58:23 Speaker 00 Doesn't surprise me at all. The investigation eventually expanded to South Carolina and Las Vegas, where Hume owned property. Detectives looked into other cases of missing women and unsolved murders, hoping Hume's DNA would be a match. But here's the thing, right? We said he lived in a dump, his childhood home, but yet he owns property in South Carolina, Las Vegas.
58:48 Speaker 01 Yeah.
58:48 Speaker 00 So it seems even more strange.
58:50 Speaker 01 See, you know, seems like he's doing pretty good, right?
58:53 Speaker 00 He has some money.
58:54 Speaker 01 But he just didn't want to take care of his childhood house the way that most people would.
59:00 Speaker 00 Yeah, it does seem strange. In late July, 2023, Suffolk County Sheriff Errol Toulon Jr. said that more female sex workers came forward to report that they had contact with Rex Hume. His staff was going to vet their statements to confirm if he did have contact with them and see if that leads in new directions. And did you just yawn while I was talking?
59:24 Speaker 01 No.
59:25 Speaker 00 Because I saw it out of the corner of my eye.
59:27 Speaker 01 I was stretching my elbow.
59:30 Speaker 00 Everybody saw it, dude. I am sorry to bore you.
59:34 Speaker 01 You're not.
59:36 Speaker 00 Oh, on July 17th, 2023, Hureman's attorney, Michael Brown, issued a statement. He said, "There's nothing about Mr. Hureman that would suggest that he's involved in these incidents." "And while the government has decided to focus on him, despite more significant and stronger leads, "we're looking to forward to defending him in a court of law before a fair and impartial jury of his peers." And I don't agree with any part of that statement. I mean, I know the defense has to say that.
1:00:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:00:03 Speaker 00 But, you know, to say, "There's nothing that suggests that he's involved in these incidents", that's just, it's wrong.
1:00:11 Speaker 01 I mean, he might be looking forward to some of that PR he's going to be getting.
1:00:15 Speaker 00 Yeah. And money, right? He's going to be getting paid. Brown spoke exclusively with ABC in front of the courthouse the very next day. He said he first met Rex at his arraignment, and his first impression was, "Nothing struck me as unusual about him. He was articulate, he was intelligent, he was soft spoken." He also said he would have a challenging case ahead of him because Hureman appeared to have been convicted in the media already and the media public opinion. He expressed concerns about getting a biased jury. Again, to me, it's all, you know, defense speak.
1:00:55 Speaker 01 Sure.
1:00:56 Speaker 00 He's saying stuff to try to get out ahead of other stuff, but to say there's no evidence that he had to have known at that point, at least some of what was going to come. Brown said the state had circumstantial evidence against Hureman, such as phone records, internet searches, and DNA evidence. He noted that he deemed this circumstantial evidence because there were no eyewitnesses and no confessions from his client.
1:01:24 Speaker 01 You know, but when you have... DNA that is 99.9, you know, uh, 96%.
1:01:35 Speaker 01 Do you, do you need eyewitness?
1:01:36 Speaker 00 No, and I, but I wouldn't deem that circumstantial evidence.
1:01:39 Speaker 01 I wouldn't either.
1:01:40 Speaker 00 DNA, um, also phone records, internet searches. Um, I guess you could call some of it circumstantial because it puts him there. Right. At the same time, these calls were made. There's nobody to say, I saw him on that phone or, you know? So in a way, some of that could be circumstantial. I think the DNA is a little bit tougher.
1:02:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:02:07 Speaker 00 Because it really does kind of point to him specifically. But, you know, as we wrap this one up, the Long Island serial killer has been arrested. Right. By this point, but prosecutors still had a long road ahead of them.
1:02:22 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:02:23 Speaker 00 They had to connect human, not just the D's murders, but to additional murders. So in part four, we'll cover additional charges and evidence uncovered throughout the investigation and the resolution of the Long Island serial killer case.
1:02:41 Speaker 01 But I think law enforcement has to feel pretty good where they're sitting right now.
1:02:45 Speaker 00 Oh, absolutely.
1:02:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:02:47 Speaker 00 Um, I mean, if you're talking about the Gilgo four, I think they feel pretty good. They feel very good about the three in which they have a DNA connection.
1:02:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:02:57 Speaker 00 And they probably feel pretty good about Maureen as well. But they're, they're going to need more.
1:03:06 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
1:03:07 Speaker 00 Than what they have so far in, in, in the story. But, um, we got a voicemail. You want to check that out?
1:03:14 Speaker 01 All right, let's listen.
1:03:15 Speaker 02 Hi, my name is Melissa Alexander. Um, I'm from Woodstock, Ontario, Canada. And I recently started listening to your podcast and was wondering if you've ever done the true crime story. Tori Stafford, um, it's a girl that was kidnapped.
1:03:36 Speaker 02 Um, I think in the early 2000s, um, it's a true story that happened in Woodstock to a little girl. I think she was only like seven years old. There's been a different few podcasts that have done her story, but I kinda wanted to see what your, um, opinion was about it and if you have done it before. Um, but I thought it could be, um, something that you guys could do. Uh, it looks like it was, um, July 15th, 2000, uh, that it was and, um,
1:04:17 Speaker 02 she was kidnapped and it goes through the whole story. But yeah, I didn't know if you've heard about it before, um, but I thought maybe it's something that you guys would be interested in doing if you haven't have done it. And I just wanted to say that I really enjoy your podcast. Thank you. Bye.
1:04:36 Speaker 00 All right. Thanks for the voicemail. I, I looked, yes, I don't think we've done it, but the name is so familiar. Maybe Morph and I did it on criminology.
1:04:44 Speaker 01 There's a prob- probable chance of that.
1:04:46 Speaker 00 A probable chance.
1:04:47 Speaker 01 You probably did that.
1:04:49 Speaker 00 There's a probable chance. Oh yeah. I, I, it's so familiar to me, but again, I, and if not, it doesn't matter. We, you and I could still do it and should. But thank you for the voicemail.
1:05:02 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:05:02 Speaker 00 And, uh, that's it for another episode of True Crime All The Time. So for Mike.
1:05:08 Speaker 01 And Gibby.
1:05:09 Speaker 00 Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.
Previous Long Island Serial Killer Part 2 Next Long Island Serial Killer Part 4 Page updated October 30, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated