Pod Insights True Crime All The Time Dale Bruner About this episode Dale Bruner reported his wife Stephanie missing on November 23rd, 2010. He told the police she left the house to cool off after an argument. Throughout the investigation, the police found evidence of a troubled marriage and incidents of domestic violence that caused Stephanie to file for divorce.
Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Dale Bruner. It was revealed that Stephanie was emotionally involved with a man, and the two had confided in each other that they were in love. Did Dale Bruner find out about this and kill his wife as he felt he was losing control?
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1:47 Speaker 00 Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 439 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson, and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?
1:58 Speaker 01 Hey, I'm good. How about you?
1:59 Speaker 00 I'm doing really well.
2:00 Speaker 01 Good.
2:01 Speaker 00 We just got done taping our weekly Patreon thing, and for the second week in a row, you're fixated on the mail form.
2:12 Speaker 00 And won't stop talking about it.
2:14 Speaker 01 I think you're saying it the wrong way.
2:16 Speaker 00 Really?
2:17 Speaker 01 Am I fixated?
2:18 Speaker 00 It seems like you are.
2:20 Speaker 01 I'm just saying, there's a certain series that I'm watching and there's a lot of things flying around in the air.
2:27 Speaker 00 Yeah. Well, you seem to be talking about it a lot. I guess people on Patreon will have to make up their own mind.
2:37 Speaker 01 Sure.
2:37 Speaker 00 About whether or not you're fixated.
2:39 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:40 Speaker 00 Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Savvy C.
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2:44 Speaker 00 Amy Kieri.
2:45 Speaker 01 What's going on, Amy?
2:46 Speaker 00 Neosha Jackson.
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2:48 Speaker 00 Erica Del Rio.
2:50 Speaker 01 Ah, thanks Del Rio.
2:51 Speaker 00 Mark.
2:52 Speaker 01 Hey, Mark.
2:52 Speaker 00 Amanda Platter.
2:54 Speaker 01 Hey, Amanda.
2:54 Speaker 00 Jordan Dumey.
2:56 Speaker 01 Ah, good old Dumey.
2:57 Speaker 00 Alyssa Lilly.
2:59 Speaker 01 Hey, Alyssa.
3:00 Speaker 00 Megan Clanton.
3:01 Speaker 01 What's going on, Megan?
3:02 Speaker 00 Jeremy Z.
3:03 Speaker 01 Hey, Z.
3:04 Speaker 00 William.
3:05 Speaker 01 Hey, just William.
3:06 Speaker 00 J. Mike.
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3:08 Speaker 00 And last but not least, Emmy Lulu.
3:10 Speaker 01 And then Lulu back to you, Emmy.
3:13 Speaker 00 Exactly. And if we go back into the vault. This week, we selected Sarah.
3:19 Speaker 01 The Sarah.
3:20 Speaker 00 The Sarah.
3:21 Speaker 01 Yes.
3:21 Speaker 00 So appreciate all the support that we get. We have a brand new episode out right now on True Crime All the Time Unsolved, where we're talking about Jennifer Wicks and her daughter Adriana, who have been missing since 2004. This is a very interesting case. It's been over 20 years. They've still not been found.
3:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:45 Speaker 00 But the authorities have a person in the form of Jennifer's former boyfriend, who they consider a pretty serious person of interest. So we'll go through all his story, his claims, what happened, all of that. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All the Time?
4:05 Speaker 01 I am ready.
4:06 Speaker 00 On November 23rd, 2010, Dale Bruner reported his wife Stephanie missing. He told the police she left the house to cool off after an argument. Over the course of the investigation, the police found evidence of a troubled marriage and incidents of domestic violence that caused Stephanie to file for divorce. You know, and we talk about it all the time. You know, when a husband or wife goes missing, they're going to look at the spouse. Anybody who knows anything about true crime knows that. I think what ramps it up even more is when the police start their investigation
4:49 Speaker 00 and they start to uncover some of these troubling aspects.
4:53 Speaker 01 Right.
4:53 Speaker 00 You know, the marriage is rocky. We've got some incidents of domestic violence to the point where, you know, one of the individuals involved has already filed for divorce.
5:07 Speaker 01 There's some red flags.
5:09 Speaker 00 Well, I think it's going to put even more emphasis, right, on the spouse. Stephanie Roller and Dale Bruner met in 1993 at a ski resort in Oregon. Stephanie was an employee at the resort and Dale was a photographer. They dated for three years before Dale proposed. The couple eloped in Fiji and later moved to Silverthorne, Colorado, close to a popular ski resort in Breckenridge.
5:38 Speaker 01 Nice little place.
5:39 Speaker 00 Yeah.
5:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:40 Speaker 00 Yeah, I've heard a lot about it. I don't, I've never actually been to Breckenridge specifically, but eloping in Fiji. Okay, sounds pretty cool.
5:50 Speaker 01 I think so.
5:51 Speaker 00 Dale and Stephanie had three children together. Dale worked as a freelance photographer and Stephanie worked for the county, reviewing home building plans.
6:02 Speaker 01 Remember your little freelance photography side gig you had?
6:05 Speaker 00 Yeah, I think all those pictures were confiscated during that big sting operation.
6:11 Speaker 01 Right, rightfully so.
6:12 Speaker 00 Rightfully so. Dale and Stephanie, they weren't rich, but they were able to go on trips to places like Disney, Mexico and Hawaii. The people who knew them thought that they had a happy marriage and an idyllic life.
6:28 Speaker 00 And you know, what true crime story do you not hear that in?
6:32 Speaker 01 Oh, I know.
6:33 Speaker 00 When it comes to, you know, a couple, one of them ends up dead. Invariably, all these people come forward saying, oh, my gosh, I can't believe it. I, you know, we thought this was the perfect couple. They had, you know, kind of the, the picturesque, what you would think of as a, a perfect life.
6:54 Speaker 01 You don't really hear, well, we knew it was going to happen, you know, they were always.
6:58 Speaker 00 Every now and then, every now and then.
7:00 Speaker 01 Yeah. It's like you said, it's always that rosy picture, you know?
7:04 Speaker 00 Until things start to come out. One of Stephanie's favorite things to do was attend dance classes at a local studio owned by her friend, Jennifer Bozakis.
7:16 Speaker 01 I like a good dance studio.
7:17 Speaker 00 Yeah. Well, you know, I spent a lot of time at dance studios. My youngest was into competitive dance for many, many years. And I actually kind of miss it now that she's at college. Every now and then, you know, we'll, we'll get on the Instagram just to see what the, the dance studio is doing and I kind of miss it.
7:35 Speaker 01 Going down to the senior house facility. We always got some dancing going on on the weekends.
7:41 Speaker 00 Mm hmm. A lot of it by you.
7:43 Speaker 01 Yes.
7:44 Speaker 00 Scantily clad.
7:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:47 Speaker 00 And not something that I ever really want to see again. The one time that you were able to lure me to one of these shows scarred me. I have to be honest with you, and it's kind of seared into my memory. I, I can't get rid of it.
8:03 Speaker 01 I probably shouldn't have performed the Napoleon Dynamite dance.
8:06 Speaker 00 Yes.
8:06 Speaker 01 But that's what was on for that night, and that's what happened.
8:10 Speaker 00 In the summer of 2010, Stephanie was partnered with physical therapist Ronald Holt House for a local benefit program called Dancing with the Mountain Stars modeled after the TV show. Stephanie was his instructor. They spent the summer dancing together and their connection deepened. They had what was described as an emotional affair. But kissing was the extent of their physical relationship per Summit Daily News.
8:41 Speaker 01 Well, some will say that emotional affair is just as bad, if not worse than a physical affair.
8:46 Speaker 00 Yep. I have heard you say that before. I don't know who all these other people are who are saying it, but you know, I have to go with your knowledge or lack thereof. But you know, let's be honest, if you have a partner who is spending all of this time with someone, they develop a connection that obviously becomes more than just friends. Most people would not be okay with that. You know, the emotional part of it, okay. How deep does it go? But obviously kissing is crossing the line.
9:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, I would think most people would agree with that.
9:28 Speaker 00 Ron Holt House was also married. He and Stephanie maintained their connection via email after the program ended. According to 48 Hours, Stephanie and Ron had a secret blog called Souls Seeking that told the story of two lovers who could not be together. One post said, "I want to be with you, my love, my love, my friend, my partner, my soulmate. I miss you very much." Okay.
9:58 Speaker 01 Well, if you're one of their partners, their husband or their wife, and you read that, you're not going to feel too good about your relationship.
10:08 Speaker 00 No, because you know, like I said, what does the emotional affair consist of? Well, I think we're finding out what it consisted of, and it's this pretty deep stuff. Stephanie's friend Melanie Frey told 48 Hours that Ron appreciated Stephanie, which was something she wasn't getting at home. And let's face it, Gibbs, how do affairs start? Most of them.
10:34 Speaker 01 Yeah, by getting something that you don't get from the other person in your life.
10:38 Speaker 00 Yes, that you're not getting at home. Things weren't going well for the Bruner. Stephanie was laid off from the job she loved on October 13th. Dale's photography business also wasn't doing well. Reports suggested Stephanie found another job in the weeks before her death.
10:59 Speaker 00 And you just wonder, you know, how much these types of things affected the relationship, right? These are stressors.
11:07 Speaker 01 They are.
11:08 Speaker 00 You get laid off from your job, that's a stressor. Dale's business isn't doing good. Okay. All of that's going to revolve around money, which is a big time stressor for almost everyone.
11:22 Speaker 01 And on top of that, if you are seeking emotional support from somebody else, it has its own issues.
11:29 Speaker 00 And when, you know, it said that's something she wasn't getting at home, that makes me think that Dale was being emotionally distant, right? He wasn't giving that type of support or those things that she needed. The day after she was laid off, Stephanie filed for a restraining order against Dale, but the order was vacated on October 28th. Stephanie's sister, Ramona Roller, told the Denver Post that Stephanie had a fight with Dale over disciplining their kids. The combination of the discipline and being laid off from a job she loved so much. It was very hard on her. Okay. So again, stressors, right?
12:12 Speaker 01 Yeah. Arguing about the kids.
12:14 Speaker 00 On November 1st, 2010, Stephanie filed for divorce. Her family was surprised because they didn't think they were having serious problems. And we talked about it upfront, right? You know, you have this in a lot of true crime cases, but I also think you have it in a lot of just, you know, ordinary people's relationships. There is stuff that goes on inside the relationship that you probably keep from family and friends, neighbors, acquaintances. Now, why is that? Some people might not want to kind of shatter the perfect life image that maybe they've built up.
12:59 Speaker 01 True.
13:00 Speaker 00 Some people, you know, they might be embarrassed that certain things are going on in their lives and they just don't feel comfortable sharing it with even their closest friends or family.
13:12 Speaker 01 I think it is like that more than. We realize.
13:16 Speaker 00 But you could see why a family would be surprised when all of a sudden she files for divorce, because if they don't know all of these things that have been going on, these things that have kind of led up to it, it would be a kind of a huge shocker.
13:31 Speaker 01 Sure would be.
13:32 Speaker 00 Dale told 48 Hours that their marriage was a juggling act. Stephanie admitted to him that she was in love with someone else and wanted to leave. Dale claimed he was willing to go through with the divorce, even though it wasn't his choice. So now I have to go back to the emotional affair. I think you can get an even better sense of its gravity when she says, hey, I'm in love with someone.
14:02 Speaker 01 Yeah.
14:03 Speaker 00 Now, it was reported that all they had done was kiss, but you know, texting, emailing, back and forth. I mean, they obviously had built up a very strong, powerful relationship.
14:19 Speaker 01 I mean, in their secret blog, you know, they talked about loving each other, right? I mean, they definitely had something serious going on.
14:28 Speaker 00 And what the hell is a secret blog? Is that just a website that only two people have access to?
14:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
14:35 Speaker 00 And are writing back and forth on this blog? I, I really don't, I'm, I'm not a big blogger, so my knowledge about blogging is, is not the, is not great.
14:46 Speaker 01 I think they probably used something like that so they didn't have to use their phones to text back and forth where it can be tracked.
14:54 Speaker 00 Which is actually pretty smart, if you think about it. Now, obviously, that could be tracked too.
14:59 Speaker 01 Yeah, if you know about it.
15:00 Speaker 00 Later on, if somebody knew about it. But if you're trying to hide something from your partners, that might not be a bad way to do it. It wasn't until the month before her murder that Stephanie opened up to her friend Jennifer Bozakis about what was going on. She explained that Dale had been violent with her in the past. During her first pregnancy, he threw her on the bed, put his knee on her stomach and threatened her. Dale promised he would get help and Stephanie decided to stay. Okay, that's a real scary encounter.
15:35 Speaker 01 It is.
15:36 Speaker 00 When you're pregnant, it'd be scary if you weren't pregnant, but even more scary when you're pregnant and your husband is kind of kneeing you in the stomach.
15:46 Speaker 01 But obviously, she decided to stay and move past it and had two more kids with them.
15:52 Speaker 00 Right, but deep down, don't most people want things to work out? Right? I think a lot of us have a tendency to believe that, you know, people can change, will change. Things will get better.
16:07 Speaker 01 You don't want to have a failing relationship.
16:10 Speaker 00 Most people don't.
16:11 Speaker 01 Right.
16:11 Speaker 00 So you want to see the good in people. You want to believe that they can change. It's just unfortunately, some people don't, no matter what they say. She said that she filed for a restraining order because she came home and found Dale hitting their son when he refused to listen. And that was the final straw. Stephanie said, "He can do anything he wants to me, but when he starts hurting my kids, that's where I draw a line in the sand."
16:38 Speaker 01 Protecting her kids.
16:39 Speaker 00 And we've heard a lot of people say that. They're not happy with the way that they're being treated, but they may put up with it.
16:47 Speaker 01 Right.
16:48 Speaker 00 What they won't put up with is their kids being mistreated.
16:54 Speaker 01 Yeah, you can hear someone saying, "Well, I'll stay with this abusive person if it means I can still be around my kids 24/7 and protect them. But if they're going to start doing what they do to me, to the kids, I'm going to get them out of there."
17:09 Speaker 00 And one of the big things that Stephanie said to Jennifer was that if something happened to her, it would be Dale who was responsible.
17:19 Speaker 01 And we've heard that in the past too, right? Like, "Hey, sister, if something happens to me, you know it had to be such and such."
17:27 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, people have, I don't want to say prophesized, but you know, kind of told others that if anything happened to them, this would be the person who did it. And a lot of times it turns out to unfortunately become true.
17:46 Speaker 01 But don't you think if that's how you're thinking, like you're telling somebody close to you that, "If something happens to me, it's this person that I'm sharing my life with." Maybe it's time to not share your life with them.
17:59 Speaker 00 Well, but I think she was in the midst of that.
18:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
18:04 Speaker 00 And as we often say, right, the leaving, that when you actually make the decision to leave, that can often be the most dangerous time.
18:16 Speaker 01 Like a catalyst?
18:18 Speaker 00 Well, because then the person is losing control, right? The person on the other end is, in their mind, realizing that they are about ready to lose control. Stephanie was last seen alive on November 22nd, 2010. Dale reported her missing around 8:45 a.m. on November 23rd, after he took the kids to school. He explained that they got into an argument the night before. Stephanie said she needed to clear her head and walked out of the house between 10 and 10:30 p.m. She left wearing only a lightweight jacket. She didn't take her purse, money, or car keys with her.
19:02 Speaker 00 All she had was a phone and a computer, and she wasn't answering his calls. The police found it unusual that Stephanie would take her computer with her on a walk.
19:15 Speaker 01 That is strange.
19:16 Speaker 00 Yeah, you're not going to take your purse, any money, but you're going to take your computer.
19:22 Speaker 01 Maybe she wanted to journal something, you know, walk somewhere, sit down, reflect. You know, you do a lot of reflection.
19:31 Speaker 00 I do.
19:32 Speaker 01 So maybe, you know, it's kind of like how you do.
19:35 Speaker 00 Most of my reflection is about what you have said during the night, but you know. Now, many members of the community came together to search for Stephanie. Her friends reached out to local hotels, but she hadn't checked into any of them. Groups searched the woods around her home. Authorities were extremely worried about Stephanie because at the time of her disappearance, temperatures dropped to one degree with a wind chill of minus 20.
20:06 Speaker 01 Well, that light jacket she had on is not going to keep her warm enough.
20:09 Speaker 00 No, that is very cold. Dale did not join the search after. He claimed that the police told him to stay home.
20:18 Speaker 01 You know what? Maybe that's true, but I know me and I know you and they would have to handcuff us to keep us from out there searching for somebody we care about.
20:31 Speaker 00 Yeah, I think it would be tough. I mean, what would be the reasoning for them to want him to stay home in case she comes home? Maybe they didn't have anybody to watch the kids. I, I don't know.
20:43 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:43 Speaker 00 Or that could just be a story that, you know, he made up. During the search for Stephanie, police learned about her marriage troubles and the fact that she had asked for a divorce. The police also found out she was having an emotional affair with Ron Holthouse. And, you know, most police departments are pretty good at what they do. It's not going to take them all that long to find some of this stuff out. You know, you start talking to family and friends and things just start to come out pretty quickly.
21:18 Speaker 01 Yep. A lot of people have loose lips.
21:20 Speaker 00 Yeah, they also tend to talk a lot.
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24:01 Speaker 00 On November 26, 2010, Stephanie's frozen body was found in the Blue River, a few hundred yards from her house. A week after Stephanie was found, the community held a memorial for her. Colorado Bureau of Investigation Agent Greg Sater attended and thought that Dale was acting strange. Sater told 48 Hours, he would look around the room, comfortable and calm. Then when somebody would walk up to him, he would break down crying. Now, there was no tears. And then when that person filed away, he'd snap back into just a normal demeanor again.
24:45 Speaker 01 So kind of like faking it?
24:46 Speaker 00 Yeah, I've been watching a lot of crime shows where they, you know, they show the actual interrogations. And you really can see it a lot of the time, you know, when somebody is, you know, they're blubbering, they're, it seems as though they're crying, but there's no tears coming out and their, their, their eyes aren't even really welled up with tears. They're just making the noises.
25:15 Speaker 01 Right.
25:16 Speaker 00 And the sound.
25:17 Speaker 01 Just trying to sound convincing.
25:20 Speaker 00 Children's services removed the kids from the home the day after the memorial service in early December 2010, the police ruled Stephanie's death a homicide after an autopsy determined she suffered blunt force trauma and drowned. Stephanie was hit over the head hard enough to break her skull. She was also strangled, which broke a bone in her neck. She was thrown into the river while she was still alive and died of a combination of her injuries, hypothermia and drowning.
25:54 Speaker 01 This is really brutal.
25:56 Speaker 00 Oh, absolutely brutal. Stephanie was also naked, except for a long sleeve t-shirt still attached to her right arm. However, there was no sign of sexual assault. And we mentioned it, right? It's like negative one, one degree, whatever it was, minus 20 with the wind chill. She wasn't wearing much anyway, according to her husband when she left the house. But now you find out that she was hit over the head, strangled, thrown into the river while she was still alive and essentially wearing no clothes.
26:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
26:39 Speaker 00 So you add all that together, there's no way you're surviving that.
26:44 Speaker 01 No, your body's going to shut down in that cold water.
26:48 Speaker 00 And ultimately she. She just drowned. But what do you make of the sign that there was no sexual assault?
26:56 Speaker 01 Sounds like it was more of somebody angry towards her.
27:01 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, sometimes we can make too much out of something. You know, you do have killers who don't sexually assault their victims. They're just out to kill. But I think by and large, if you're looking at that, you probably think, you know, this is somebody who's familiar to Stephanie. They don't feel the need to sexually assault her. They're just angry with her and they want her dead.
27:31 Speaker 01 Yeah.
27:32 Speaker 00 Both Dale Bruner and Ron Holt House were suspects. In his interview, Ron revealed that the day before Stephanie went missing, he told her he had no intention of leaving his wife. He said he needed to take a step back and work on his marriage. Stephanie was so upset that he agreed to meet with her somewhere so that they could talk. They met about five hours before she went missing.
28:00 Speaker 01 So that's a different angle, right?
28:03 Speaker 00 Well, it's an angle that police would have to look at Ron pretty closely as a suspect, right? Because you could go down a number of different avenues. She's upset. Could she have said, well, I'm going to tell your wife?
28:19 Speaker 01 Exactly.
28:20 Speaker 00 You don't want to be with me. I'm going to ruin your life.
28:23 Speaker 01 That's right.
28:24 Speaker 00 And Ron said, well, I can't allow that to happen. And he killed her. The police said that Ron seemed nervous, but he was pretty forthcoming with information. Police were also looking at his wife Cynthia Holt House. Authorities learned that while Stephanie was missing, Cynthia said she wished Stephanie was dead.
28:47 Speaker 01 So potential other suspect.
28:50 Speaker 00 Yeah. Have you ever said that you wish somebody was dead? Or even thought it?
28:57 Speaker 01 Honestly, yeah.
28:58 Speaker 00 Yeah, I think if most people were being honest, they would probably think back and remember a time when they were so upset that that thought crossed their mind. And maybe they even verbalized it. Hey, you're going to be upset if you find out that your husband's cheating on you.
29:17 Speaker 01 Yeah.
29:17 Speaker 00 And you're not going to have good thoughts about that person with whom he's cheating. To make matters worse, both Ron and Cynthia took polygraphs and failed.
29:29 Speaker 01 Well, that's not good.
29:30 Speaker 00 No, that's why I said to make matters worse.
29:35 Speaker 00 But what does that mean? We've talked ad nauseam in episodes about, you know, polygraphs, what they mean. You know, there's a reason why they're not used as evidence in, in the courtroom. But when you fail a polygraph, the police are still gonna make something of it.
29:57 Speaker 01 Yes, it's not like you pass it and then they can say, you know what? We feel comfortable moving on from these people of interest. When you fail the polygraph, you're definitely not getting off the list.
30:10 Speaker 00 Ron and Cynthia said they were home together all night. Their stories lined up throughout multiple interviews. And police didn't think they were covering for each other. Investigators learned Cynthia didn't discover the affair until after Stephanie went missing. So they thought she would be too angry to lie for her husband. And I think there's a couple of points there. That's one. But also if Cynthia doesn't know about the affair, when Stephanie goes missing, it kind of takes her motive away, right?
30:44 Speaker 01 Yeah, I agree with that.
30:45 Speaker 00 Investigators believe Cynthia failed her polygraph because of her distressed emotional state. And CBI agent Greg Sater explained that Ron felt guilty. He said, I think he was telling us the truth. I think deep down inside, I think he really felt like he was on some level responsible for her disappearance.
31:08 Speaker 01 And that sounds believable to me.
31:11 Speaker 00 Well, it's one of the problems with polygraphs, right? So Cynthia is in this unbelievable, distressing, emotional state. You know, she's learned about the affair. Is she going to be calm, cool and collected? Or is she going to be moving the needle just because of her, you know, this emotions that are running through her?
31:34 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think that needle is going to be bouncing all over the place.
31:37 Speaker 00 So eventually Dale became the main suspect. Police thought he was way too calm about his wife's disappearance and death. And Dale told inconsistent stories about the night Stephanie went missing. And how many people get tripped up with inconsistent stories?
31:56 Speaker 01 You know, I was just thinking about that, you know, we've, we've talked about in the past. And the one thing that I know you have said prior was that if you don't tell the truth, it's hard to keep up the same story because you're not going to remember what you said and how you said it.
32:16 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, I've always thought the truth is the truth. It's easier to repeat, but a lie. Okay, now you're trying to remember what you said. It's not coming from so much what actually happened, but from what you said. And can you remember exactly what you said?
32:36 Speaker 01 And when an investigator starts picking it apart, if it's not the truth, it's going to be hard to do any backfilling into that story.
32:45 Speaker 00 And that's why we often see people making up revised statements to take into account what they're being confronted with, right? Whether it's evidence or whatever. Dale was first called in for questioning two days after Stephanie went missing. When an officer walked into the room, she was shocked to find him sleeping. Dale was also described as eerily calm during his interview. He explained to 48 hours that he was trying to keep his emotions in check. He said, I could just fall on the floor and start crying. I mean, and then I don't know if I'll be able to get up.
33:26 Speaker 01 I mean, we've heard this before too, about suspects that, you know, just because they're not acting the way we think they should act. Doesn't always mean that they're guilty of something. Some people are just built different.
33:42 Speaker 00 Yeah, some people react to situations differently than others, but I, I think if your wife is missing, eerily calm would be a, a tough state, right? To, to be in, I would, I would think. Now you could make the argument that, you know, he's sleeping because he hasn't been sleeping. He's so worried about her, but it, the very least, it doesn't make him look good. Dale told the police he waited to report Stephanie missing to give her some space. He started to worry once it got laid, but he waited because she was an adult.
34:25 Speaker 00 On January 5th, 2011, the Silverthorn Police released a statement naming Dale the main suspect in the investigation. That same day, a judge signed a motion to convene a grand jury on the case. Court officials would not release any other details on the petition or the case file. However, the coroner confirmed that their preliminary autopsy revealed another significant finding that was not made public. Authorities were still waiting on the more extensive autopsy results. So, I mean, you know, if you look at the timeline, things moved fairly quickly, right?
35:06 Speaker 00 It's a big deal to come out and issue a statement naming someone as the main suspect.
35:12 Speaker 01 Well, I think it is.
35:13 Speaker 00 And that happened, you know, within the span of a couple of months. But this kind of cryptic confirmation from the coroner that there was a, another significant finding. Okay. Is that going to be the bombshell that kind of seals this case up tight? On August 3rd, 2011, Dale Bruner was arrested after a grand jury indicted him for second degree murder, assault and evidence tampering. The indictment alleged that Dale hit, strangled and left Stephanie unconscious,
35:54 Speaker 00 but alive in the river. Afterwards, he destroyed, mutilated, removed, concealed or altered her computer and cellphone.
36:04 Speaker 01 Big news in the case.
36:05 Speaker 00 That Dale was indicted?
36:07 Speaker 01 Yeah.
36:07 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, I think it is. In January 2012, prosecutors asked a judge to allow them to present evidence of prior bad acts, but details were kept from the press due to a seal on the case. Dale's murder trial started on July 17, 2012. He maintained his innocence and rejected a deal for 24 years in exchange for a guilty plea.
36:35 Speaker 01 I think a plea bargain would be really difficult to decide if you want to take it or not. I mean emotionally, if you didn't do it, you're saying, why would I ever agree to that? But you have to look at the evidence and say, man, how can I defend it?
36:48 Speaker 00 Yeah, I actually think it would be a tough decision if you actually did it or you didn't do it. Because like you said, you could be completely innocent, but the prosecution could cobble together a case that looks pretty compelling to a jury. And then, you know, on the other hand, if you're guilty, okay, 24 years is a long time. So maybe you say, I'm going to roll the dice.
37:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:17 Speaker 00 And take my chances. Now, I might do longer, but it's worth it. Prosecutors revealed that Stephanie filed for a restraining order against Dale due to his harsh treatment of their son about six weeks before the murder. As we mentioned, she told a friend, if anything happens to me, know that Dale did it.
37:39 Speaker 01 What do you think the jury is going to make of that statement?
37:41 Speaker 00 Yeah, that's an interesting question because in and of itself, it's not really evidence, right, that he conclusively killed her. But the jury is taking it all in. You got to wonder what they would make of it. The prosecution played a recording of the statement she made in court when asking for the restraining order. Stephanie said, as soon as he finds out from social services that I've entered the system, I'm gonna run with my kids. I mean, I don't know what he's going to do. That's the one line I could never cross. He loves me. He wants to control me. He wants me to be there.
38:24 Speaker 00 He will hold me down to be there. A lot of these things were a long time ago. The physical stuff, dragging me down the hall, that stuff was a long time ago. He's kind of redirected some of his frustration to the children. And I've certainly learned not to press issues. I can't go back to him. He has threatened my life years ago, but with a hand on my throat, didn't squeeze it, screaming in my face. I will kill you if you leave. I've never forgotten. So I'm here asking for help.
38:59 Speaker 01 Pretty impactful.
39:00 Speaker 00 Well, it's very powerful, right? When you think about her making this statement, not all that long before she winds up dead.
39:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
39:12 Speaker 00 And we're also getting a little more background on some of the physical violence. Now, she admits it was years ago, but she's also saying a lot of that has now been redirected towards the children. And as you said, Gibbs, sometimes that's exactly what will motivate someone to get the heck out.
39:39 Speaker 01 Yeah. Now you're threatening my kids? I'm out of here.
39:42 Speaker 00 And that's where, you know, maybe she is drawing the line. The jury heard that Stephanie rescinded the restraining order the following week. Investigators thought she did this because she was afraid. Two days before the murder, Stephanie packed up the kids and tried to leave, but within hours, they were back home. The prosecution would later call on an expert who explained the cycles and patterns of domestic violence to the jury.
40:12 Speaker 01 And that's a real thing.
40:13 Speaker 00 Yes. You know, let's talk about a restraining order. Because I think a lot of us have heard it before. What is a restraining order other than, you know, a piece of paper that says, you're not allowed to do this?
40:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:30 Speaker 00 It's not a shield, right? It's not a barrier that keeps people away from you. If anything, it can often enrage the other person. I'm not saying don't get restraining orders. I'm not saying they're not good, but we've seen time and time again. If somebody's hell bent on doing something to you, a restraining order is not going to stop them.
40:57 Speaker 01 No, but if you have the restraining order and authorities catch them breaking the restraining order, then at least they can do something then.
41:08 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, they're useful. Don't get me wrong.
41:11 Speaker 01 But you're right. It's going to really get the person that the restraining order is against very upset.
41:19 Speaker 00 And then if that person decides they want to kill you, the last thing they're worried about is a restraining order.
41:26 Speaker 01 Exactly.
41:27 Speaker 00 At that point. The prosecution also noted that Dale called Stephanie three times after she went missing, but that was the extent of his attempts at getting in contact with her. Gibbs, if I wake up in the morning and my wife is not home, I mean, first of all, I look on the app that we have where I can see where everybody is.
41:49 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:49 Speaker 00 But I'm calling her just to see what's going on, where she at? How's she doing?
41:55 Speaker 01 Ask her to pick up a donut for you on the way back.
41:57 Speaker 00 Depending on how close to the Krispy Kreme she is. But, you know, if she doesn't answer, I may call her three times that morning. You know, if I thought she was missing, obviously that would not be the extent of my searching.
42:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
42:14 Speaker 00 Three phone calls.
42:15 Speaker 01 You're going to go a little deeper.
42:16 Speaker 00 Yeah, to me, that just kind of tells you something right there. It's almost as if, well, I know I got to make some phone calls because that would look suspicious if I don't, but I'm not going to really look for her because I know where she's at.
42:32 Speaker 01 Yeah, so let me make a few phone calls right now just to make it look good.
42:37 Speaker 00 After reporting his wife missing while friends, family, and the police were searching for Stephanie, Dale did some work on his computer and he also canceled his match.com account.
42:50 Speaker 01 Oh, I better get rid of this account. It might not look good now that my wife is missing.
42:54 Speaker 00 Well, you know, my wife's missing, but I gotta catch up on some work on my computer, take care of some, you know, administrative tasks. That's, that's completely normal.
43:07 Speaker 01 Cause that's more important than going out trying to find your wife.
43:10 Speaker 00 The jury also heard that on the night of November 22nd, 2010, Stephanie wrote an email to Ron Holt House that said, "You are the love of my life. I love you so much." Stephanie never sent this email, but it was auto saved at 11:00 PM. Investigators were never able to find her missing computer, but they went to her internet provider and learned the email was never sent. DA Mark Hurlbert theorized that Dale saw the email and snapped. He hit Stephanie over the head, possibly with the computer and strangled her. Dale and Stephanie's 10-year-old daughter testified that she remembered hearing her
43:53 Speaker 00 parents argue on the night of November 22nd. Two neighbors testified that they didn't hear an argument on the night in question. The Bruner's neighbor in their duplex said she occasionally heard the kids playing outside and occasionally heard Dale yelling at the kids. So let's go back to this theory, right? Stephanie is sending an email to Ron. Dale sees it and he becomes enraged.
44:24 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:24 Speaker 00 He's losing her. He's losing control. And here's an email from Stephanie to this guy saying, "You're the love of my life." Dale snaps, hits her over the head, strangles her, and ultimately dumps her body in the river.
44:41 Speaker 01 Well, that makes more sense to me as far as the computer versus her taking the computer with her.
44:47 Speaker 00 On a walk to clear her head.
44:49 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:50 Speaker 00 Yes. But does it now make sense that maybe that's why he said that?
44:56 Speaker 01 Oh, yes.
44:57 Speaker 00 Because he's trying to account for why her computer is missing.
45:05 Speaker 00 Two of Dale's ex-girlfriends and one of Stephanie's friends also testified about prior acts. Dale's ex-girlfriend, Jody Eberhard, lived with him in the early 90s. In one incident, she said Dale came home late and she accused him of being with another woman. Dale pushed her and put his hands around her neck. He threatened to kill her if she said anything like that again. She recalled him once strangling her to the point of unconsciousness. And you know, these are tough for me. And I'm coming up on my 30th wedding anniversary. I can honestly say, even though my wife and I, we've been in
45:48 Speaker 00 arguments, we've had our share of stuff like that. I have never once put my hands around the neck of a woman.
45:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
45:58 Speaker 00 Or a man, for that matter, I don't believe, and started to strangle and threaten to kill.
46:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
46:05 Speaker 00 I, I just don't understand these guys.
46:08 Speaker 01 Rage.
46:09 Speaker 00 Yeah, they cannot control their emotions.
46:13 Speaker 01 And I think, you know, the important part of this, if he did this with Jody, maybe he did do that with Stephanie.
46:22 Speaker 00 Yeah. Well, you know, that's why you're bringing in these prior acts. We know Stephanie was strangled. And here you have an ex-girlfriend testifying that, well, he once strangled me while at the same time threatening to kill me.
46:35 Speaker 01 Yeah. And then Stephanie, in one of her posts, or in her, uh, talking to her friend, mentioned that she was strangled once by him.
46:45 Speaker 00 Apparently this guy had a problem with strangling. One woman who described Dale as a mentor testified that he hinted, he wanted Stephanie gone in the weeks before she disappeared, saying he wanted her dead. He talked about her having a heart attack.
47:02 Speaker 01 Such a weird thing to say to somebody.
47:04 Speaker 00 I hope my wife has a heart attack.
47:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
47:07 Speaker 00 During cross-examination, the defense asked the women if they ever filed reports against Dale. They said they did not. But let me ask you this, Gibbs, do you think that was all that unusual, especially in the 1990s?
47:22 Speaker 01 I think it was probably more of the norm.
47:25 Speaker 00 I, I believe it was too. You're going to file a report. What's going to happen with it? Maybe nothing, but what is it going to do? Enrage this person who threatened to kill you already?
47:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
47:38 Speaker 00 I mean, it's sad to think about.
47:41 Speaker 01 It's not like the police talking to him. He's going to be like, huh? You know what? I shouldn't have done that and I'll never do it again. I'm glad that she went to you and told you.
47:53 Speaker 00 Yeah, he's going to deny it ever happened. They're probably not going to have the evidence to do anything against him anyway. So, I mean, you can understand why some of these people in many of the cases that we talk about, were hesitant to, to go forward to police because in their minds, they probably thought there's very little that's going to be done. But there's a lot bad that could go, you know, wrong or come back against me. Ron and Cynthia Holt House both denied killing Stephanie at trial. Ron testified that he came clean about the affair. When he was told Stephanie was missing, Cynthia confirmed that was when she learned about it.
48:37 Speaker 01 I'm sure he had to come clean, right? Cause he knew the police were probably coming to knock on his door soon.
48:41 Speaker 00 Yeah, they, he had to have known it was all going to come out. Cynthia testified per Summit Daily. I was very upset with him and very upset with her. I blamed her for destroying my marriage. And I think she's being very honest about that. I mean, who wouldn't be upset?
49:01 Speaker 01 Yeah.
49:02 Speaker 00 In that situation, but the thing is not everyone who gets upset decides that they have to kill that person.
49:10 Speaker 01 Right. You're entitled to get upset, you know, with Stephanie. You should be upset with your husband too.
49:17 Speaker 00 Oh, absolutely. But they both maintained they were home the entire night. Cynthia and Ron also testified that the police did not search their home or vehicles until December 4th. The jury was taken to the Bruner's home and walked the trail prosecutors believe Dale used.
49:36 Speaker 00 Dumped the body. The defense argued they could not prove where the murder occurred. CBI agent Greg Sater testified that there were no signs of a crime scene in the house, but it was very dirty. The defense claimed that the slow response by the police left the house open to be tampered with. The defense argued that prosecutors didn't have any direct evidence against Dale, such as footprints, fingerprints, or other forensic evidence. Defense attorney Robert Bernhardt told the jury that the only thing that could convict his client is direct evidence. And obviously, he's saying, Gibbs, they don't have that.
50:19 Speaker 01 Right.
50:20 Speaker 00 So ipso facto to the jury, how can you convict my client?
50:26 Speaker 01 Exactly, Mr. Roboto.
50:28 Speaker 00 But as we've been talking about a lot lately, I feel, you know, how many cases have the kind of smoking gun direct evidence versus a whole mountain of circumstantial evidence? And I feel like it's the latter in a lot of instances.
50:49 Speaker 01 Yeah, you're right.
50:51 Speaker 00 In closing, the defense noted that many of the prosecution's witnesses were Stephanie's friends. She confided in them about her fear of Dale because she wanted to protect her reputation when she left the marriage. I get it, right? The defense is doing their job as they have to do. Prosecutors countered that they did have evidence. Dale's story about Stephanie walking into a snowstorm was implausible, and the fact that Stephanie was strangled was direct evidence because of the testimony of Dale's ex-girlfriend. Deputy DA Christine Word said, as quoted by Summit Daily, "It is rare. It is the defendant's
51:36 Speaker 00 MO, and it is what he does when he is losing power and control."
51:42 Speaker 01 She's spot on. They have direct testimony to back that.
51:46 Speaker 00 Yeah, now it's still right up to the jury as to what they make of it. But I think it could be pretty compelling when you have somebody from this man's past saying, when he felt as though he was losing control, he choked me, he strangled me, and he also threatened to kill me. And then you have the situation with Stephanie where he's definitely losing control, right? There's the restraining order. She's asked for a divorce. She's in love with another man and she winds up being strangled. The prosecution called the murder of Stephanie Roller-Burner a case of domestic violence and noted
52:31 Speaker 00 that the most dangerous times for victims of abuse is when they try to leave. And that's something we've talked about time and time again. Deputy DA Word told the jury, women are ashamed. They're embarrassed. They never expected to be in that kind of a relationship. It's difficult for them to reach out. In this case, in the final days for Stephanie, she did reach out in her bravest days. Ultimately and tragically, that led to her death.
53:04 Speaker 01 Very sad.
53:05 Speaker 00 It's sad, but it's also a very powerful statement. We know that it can be the most dangerous time when a person, you know, tries to leave a very toxic, dangerous relationship, especially when that person is controlling and they feel like they're losing all control.
53:30 Speaker 01 Well, sadly, it's something that happens more than it should ever happen. It should never ever happen. But we've done enough cases that we know the reality of it.
53:39 Speaker 00 On July 27, 2012, Dale was convicted of second degree murder, two counts of assault, and three counts of tampering with evidence. Three jurors spoke to the Summit Daily about the trial. They said that some jurors were uncertain at the beginning of deliberations. Most of the holdouts thought Stephanie might have been killed in a random act of violence. But they were convinced by the prosecution's evidence, particularly the expert witness, who explained patterns of abuse in relationships. And I get that, right? You know, you're sitting on a jury, you're thinking about, okay, could this have been a random act of violence?
54:21 Speaker 00 And so the thought goes through your head that, yeah, maybe it could have. Is that enough of a reasonable doubt?
54:29 Speaker 01 It could be for some.
54:30 Speaker 00 It could be. Juror Brent Love explained, it came to the point where we were grasping at straws, thinking, how can there be reasonable doubt? And there was nothing at all. I was trying to throw out hypotheticals, but it's like we're getting to the point of aliens from space. This is not reasonable at all. And that's kind of where I go to in a lot of these cases. You know, what's plausible? What's reasonable? And what's not? Juror Kevin Schaefer said, I'm 100% convinced that he murdered his wife. When I look at him as a person, I don't see him as a murderer. I see him as a guy who has an anger problem.
55:13 Speaker 00 His entire life has got the best of him, and it finally culminated in murder. So what's he saying there, Gibbs? This isn't a guy who's out murdering a bunch of different people.
55:25 Speaker 01 Right.
55:26 Speaker 00 He's an angry guy. He's a controlling guy.
55:29 Speaker 01 Well, he definitely couldn't control his anger.
55:31 Speaker 00 Yeah, I think he had a problem with that. Now technically, he is a murderer, but this guy is saying he didn't view him that way. And I can only take it that it's from the standpoint of, he's not Hannibal Lecter, right? He's not out just murdering people to murder them and eat their sweetbreads.
55:53 Speaker 01 You and your sweet breads.
55:54 Speaker 00 On September 28th, 2012, Dale Bruner was sentenced to 112 years in prison.
56:01 Speaker 01 Making that plea deal looking really sweet.
56:05 Speaker 00 It looks pretty good, right? 24 versus 112. I was watching this show, Crime Show, the other day, and I think it was in Australia, and the person got what was called a life sentence, but said they would be eligible for parole, and I think it was like 12 or 16 years.
56:26 Speaker 01 Oh, wow.
56:28 Speaker 00 And the family was not happy.
56:30 Speaker 01 I wouldn't have been happy either.
56:32 Speaker 00 The judge told Dale, "Mr. Bruner, you may believe that you lost something. You took Ms. Roller's life. You took your children's mother, and you did it without remorse and in a brutal fashion." And I can't argue with any of that. I don't feel like he had any remorse, and the crime was extremely brutal, right? We said that when we detailed it out.
56:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
56:58 Speaker 00 Stephanie's friend Jennifer Vozakis said in her victim impact statement, "I'll feel safer knowing he's in jail for a very long time, the maximum sentence." Because that's what he gave Stephanie, the maximum sentence. He should go to jail for the rest of his life because that's what he took from Stephanie.
57:20 Speaker 01 There's a good friend saying how she really feels about what this monster did to her best friend.
57:25 Speaker 00 Yeah, and I think that's what a lot of friends and family feel, right? You took our loved one's life away. You should forfeit the rest of your life, whether that's the death penalty or spending the rest of your life in prison. The Summit County Advocates for Victims of Assault dedicated a room in a domestic violent safe house to Stephanie. The county also holds an annual dance and fundraiser in her memory. In their later coverage of the case, 48 Hours asked Dale what he would say to his kids. When they asked what happened, he replied, "I'll tell them the truth. I've
58:07 Speaker 00 never lied to my kids. I've never hurt your mom."
58:11 Speaker 01 Okay.
58:12 Speaker 00 So that's his version of the truth.
58:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
58:14 Speaker 00 In 2018, the Colorado Court of Appeals vacated Dale's assault convictions and sentences, reducing his total sentence to 48 years. The court ruled the assault was part of the same course of conduct as the murder.
58:31 Speaker 01 That's a big reduction.
58:32 Speaker 00 It's a huge reduction. You know, it's also the reason why I feel as though the prosecution always has to tack on as much as they can.
58:42 Speaker 01 Yeah.
58:43 Speaker 00 Because they feel like some of it's going to be reversed.
58:46 Speaker 01 This is a prime example.
58:48 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, it is. On October 2019, Dale filed a petition for post-conviction relief. He argued that he should have been granted a new trial due to ineffective assistance of counsel. And I just wonder if there's anybody who files an appeal that doesn't involve ineffective assistance of counsel.
59:11 Speaker 01 I just wonder if they have to already pre-print it on the form.
59:13 Speaker 00 Yeah.
59:14 Speaker 01 You know, just it already has it on it.
59:15 Speaker 00 It's just like, every appeal has to have that, right? On May 15, 2020, the DA's office filed a response that included an affidavit of an April 2020 interview with trial attorney Robert Bernhardt, who said that his strategic options were inhibited because Dale admitted he killed his wife.
59:39 Speaker 01 Well, wait a minute. You're talking about the same Dale that two years earlier said he would always tell his kids the truth, that he did not hurt their mother.
59:48 Speaker 00 Now, there's a lot of things that could limit, you know, the defense's options. But I would think a big one would be that your client admitted he killed his wife.
1:00:00 Speaker 01 Going to be a problem.
1:00:01 Speaker 00 Dale initially denied it, but later confessed. According to Bernhardt, he described how he strangled Stephanie until she was unconscious, drove her to the river, threw her in, and hit her in the head with a rock when she woke up. He didn't know whether Dale was being truthful, but the confession influenced how he constructed his defense.
1:00:25 Speaker 01 It's a weird thing to lie about.
1:00:28 Speaker 00 Oh, how you specifically killed your wife?
1:00:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:00:30 Speaker 00 Yeah, very, very strange to lie in that way. According to the DA, in filing the motion against his attorney, Dale opened the door for Bernhardt to speak publicly in his own defense and prevent sanctions from the State Supreme Court. And to me, that's very interesting. Because without that, you know Bernhardt can't say a word because of the attorney-client privilege. But apparently, you know, once he filed this motion saying his attorney was ineffective, he was allowed to say whatever he wanted.
1:01:13 Speaker 01 Yeah, he wants to protect his own reputation, right? Here's why he's saying this.
1:01:17 Speaker 00 And here's why I did what I did. As of 2025, Dale Bruner remains in prison. His first parole hearing will take place in 2044. Dale still maintains his innocence, but investigators and prosecutors believe he was a violent, controlling man who murdered his wife, most likely snapping when he discovered an email she was going to send to another man. And as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, you know, this theme that comes across in so many different true crime stories, a person who is very controlling and who gets used to that control,
1:02:02 Speaker 00 all of a sudden finds themselves in a situation where they're losing the control. And it seems very often that it's at that point.
1:02:14 Speaker 00 That they lose it, snap, whatever you want to call it, and they decide that they're going to kill their partner.
1:02:24 Speaker 01 Cause it puts them back into control.
1:02:26 Speaker 00 I, yeah, I think there's that part of it. There's also the part of, well, if I can't have you, this guy's definitely not going to have you.
1:02:34 Speaker 01 Exactly.
1:02:35 Speaker 00 This guy that you're emailing that you love, I'm not going to let him have you. But I do believe, based on some of the things that came out from Stephanie, that she had said to her friends, some of the things that came out from Dale's ex-girlfriend, this guy had a pattern of being violent, being controlling. He also had a, apparently a pattern of strangling.
1:03:04 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:03:05 Speaker 00 So, I mean, it's hard not to believe, especially when you have, you know, his attorney coming out and saying, well, the guy admitted to me that he killed her.
1:03:15 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:03:15 Speaker 00 That he didn't do it. So, but that's it for our episode on Dale Bruner. We've got some voicemails. You want to check those out?
1:03:23 Speaker 01 Let's hear them.
1:03:24 Speaker 02 Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Ryan Dello here from Ontario, Canada. I've been a Patreon member of yours since November 2023, but I've been a fan of yours even longer than that. I just bounce around. I just pick random episodes of both TCAT and TCAT Unresolved to listen to. So I, back in 2021 with the Margaret Rudin case, I did a little bit of research after listening to it. And not only was she released, but late 2024, her conviction was completely vacated. So that lends to what you guys were talking about, about how there's still questions in the, in the case.
1:04:05 Speaker 02 Well, her, she, her process, her sentencing, her sentence was vacated. She is a completely free woman and according to her record is an innocent woman. So I just thought I'd call in in case you hadn't heard that. Uh, love you guys. Uh, I, I, I binge both TCAT and TCAT Unsolved all the time. Uh, again, you have, you guys have, uh, gotten me through some hard times just listening to you guys and laughing at you guys while talking about these cases. I love how you can bring some levity to some really, really dark and twisted stories that you guys have to research and then talk about when you record these things.
1:04:46 Speaker 02 So again, thank you very much and stay safe and keep your own time ticking.
1:04:51 Speaker 00 All right. Appreciate the kind words, but I also appreciate the update because I had not heard that. And, you know, it's one of the things that we talk about, Gibbs. We're so focused on, you know, the next case or the next two or three cases that we don't really have time to go back and look at what's going on with all of the different cases that we've done. So we always appreciate the updates. We sure do. But I do remember that case and, you know, I think they're being somewhat conflicted about whether the, they had enough evidence, I think it was, to convict. I can't remember exactly because it's been so long ago. But it sounds like we, somebody else had the same,
1:05:35 Speaker 00 uh, some higher authority had the same. Thoughts? Thoughts, because they vacated her conviction and who knows what will happen. She may just live out the rest of her days, a free woman. Maybe.
1:05:48 Speaker 03 Hi, this is Tyler from, uh, Yakima, Washington. Uh, I recently found you guys' podcast and I just wanted to tell you, um, really enjoy it. It has a hard time coming up in my feed on Spotify, but I, I hit the search bar and find you guys every episode. So thanks. You guys are really great. Bye.
1:06:10 Speaker 00 All right. Again, thanks for the kind words. Yeah, I get a lot of people who message or call in and say, well, you know, this podcast player or that podcast player is messing up. Yeah. Some of them seem to have issues. I know it. Some more than others, but it all comes from the same feed.
1:06:32 Speaker 00 So I don't know why that happens.
1:06:35 Speaker 01 I just wonder if they've tried my app, Gibby One. It plays all the podcasts evenly. I mean, you can only listen to our podcast.
1:06:45 Speaker 00 That's the only one available.
1:06:47 Speaker 01 That's it, you know, but it always works.
1:06:51 Speaker 00 It always works. 60% of the time, it works every time.
1:06:58 Speaker 00 All right, buddy. That is it for another episode of True Crime All the Time. So for Mike.
1:07:04 Speaker 01 And Gibby.
1:07:05 Speaker 00 Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.
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