Pod Insights True Crime All The Time Connie Dabate About this episode 39-year-old Connie Dabate was a mother of two who was killed just two days before Christmas. Her husband Richard claimed she was killed by an armed intruder who broke into their house that morning, but Connie’s Fitbit data would prove his story was a lie.
Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the murder of Connie Dabate. Connie's husband Richard claimed a masked intruder shot Connie and then wounded him and left him zip-tied to a chair. His wounds were fairly superficial for the scene, so the police were skeptical of his claims. Why would an intruder shoot and kill Connie but leave Richard alive? Connie's Fitbit would provide the answers that the police needed.
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Transcript 0:34 Speaker 00 Hello everyone and welcome to episode 480 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?
0:44 Speaker 01 Hey, I'm doing good. How about you?
0:45 Speaker 00 I'm having a great week, man. You and I had some good pizza.
0:49 Speaker 01 We did.
0:49 Speaker 00 Filled our bellies and now we're ready to record.
0:52 Speaker 01 We are set to do all that.
0:56 Speaker 00 Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Dia.
0:59 Speaker 01 What's going on, Dia?
1:00 Speaker 00 Robin Jennings.
1:01 Speaker 01 Well, thank you Jennings.
1:02 Speaker 00 Jake Wilson.
1:03 Speaker 01 Hey, it's Jake. You know Jake.
1:05 Speaker 00 Jakey Jake.
1:06 Speaker 01 That's right.
1:07 Speaker 00 Ashley Garf. What's going on, Ashley? Emily Borter.
1:11 Speaker 01 Oh, well, thanks. You said that really strong, like.
1:13 Speaker 00 I had to, I had to stress the T because you said border on Patreon.
1:18 Speaker 01 Did I? You gonna hold me to that?
1:20 Speaker 00 Yes.
1:20 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:21 Speaker 00 And anybody who listens will know it. Neil Ryan. What's going on, Neil? Yali Kay.
1:27 Speaker 01 A.K.
1:28 Speaker 00 Ronel.
1:28 Speaker 01 Well, thank you, Ronel.
1:30 Speaker 00 Lori. Aw, Lori. And last but not least, Jackie Portwood.
1:35 Speaker 01 Gotta like some portwood.
1:36 Speaker 00 Okay. Port wine.
1:38 Speaker 01 No, portwood.
1:39 Speaker 00 Okay. I don't know what that is, but, and then if we go back into the vault. This week, we selected Mike with four exclamation points.
1:48 Speaker 01 So it's like, Mike!
1:50 Speaker 00 Really stressing.
1:52 Speaker 01 Yeah. Well, thanks, Mike.
1:54 Speaker 00 So on True Crime All the Time Unsolved, we have a new episode out that's on Jermaine Charla, a young woman from Montana who vanished in 2018 after a night out with her ex-boyfriend. And this is a case where, you know, her last movements are captured on surveillance footage. But so far, that hasn't led to them solving the case. We also want to talk about our Thursday TCAT episode.
2:22 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:23 Speaker 00 That's coming out. It's on Deborah and Jesse. Deborah filed a restraining order against her abusive ex-husband. She told authorities she feared for her and her children's safety. And then just days before a hearing was set to take place, she disappeared and authorities found her close friend, Crystal, dead in her home. So that's an interesting episode. You can listen to it on your favorite podcast player. You can also watch the video on YouTube, you know, like, subscribe, do all that good stuff.
2:58 Speaker 01 Yeah, it helps out.
2:59 Speaker 00 All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All the Time?
3:03 Speaker 01 I am.
3:04 Speaker 00 We're talking about Connie Dabate. 39-year-old Connie Dabate was a mother of two who was killed just two days before Christmas. Her husband, Richard, claimed she was killed by an armed intruder who broke into their house that morning. But Connie's Fitbit data would prove his story was a lie. And there are a number of cases that center around, you know, either Apple or more specifically Fitbit data. There are quite a few cases.
3:35 Speaker 01 That's why I don't wear a Fitbit. I wear a Garmin.
3:38 Speaker 00 I don't know how that would be different. You're still going to be tracking movements and times and...
3:44 Speaker 01 It's different.
3:45 Speaker 00 It's still going to trip you up.
3:47 Speaker 01 I think it's different.
3:47 Speaker 00 You should throw that away.
3:50 Speaker 00 Get you an old school timepiece. Richard and Connie met in 1997 through a mutual friend. They started off as friends, but their relationship progressed quickly. They got married in July 2003 and had two sons. You know what Harry said? You know what Harry told Sally?
4:09 Speaker 01 I wasn't sure at first if you're talking about Harry or Harry Potter.
4:12 Speaker 00 No.
4:14 Speaker 00 Men and women can't really be friends.
4:17 Speaker 01 They can't.
4:18 Speaker 00 I don't believe that, but that's what he told Sally.
4:21 Speaker 01 Men are from Mars and women are from Venus, or vice versa, or something like that, too.
4:27 Speaker 00 And Gibby's from Uranus.
4:30 Speaker 01 Why?
4:32 Speaker 00 Connie's friend, Ally Clark, told people that Richie and Connie were different people, but they really seemed to really like and respect each other. And that's great, right? That's a, that's a formula for a good relationship.
4:45 Speaker 01 It is.
4:46 Speaker 00 Connie was the responsible one, and Richard was the overgrown kid.
4:51 Speaker 01 Oh, that's like you and your wife.
4:52 Speaker 00 It's exactly like me and my wife. My wife worries about everything. She wants to make sure everything's taken care of. I'm, I'm a little more laissez faire in my attitude towards things.
5:05 Speaker 01 Definitely laissez.
5:07 Speaker 00 Not fair?
5:08 Speaker 01 Saying you're laissez.
5:09 Speaker 00 There were conflicts sometimes, but they seemed like minor disputes that are normal in a marriage. And, you know, let's be honest, Gibbs, what marriage doesn't have quote unquote, minor disputes?
5:23 Speaker 01 Oh, it's not a marriage unless you have some minor disputes.
5:26 Speaker 00 I, I don't know how you could live with someone day in and day out and not get into it every now and then. Now, I'm not talking about physical violence.
5:35 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:35 Speaker 00 But, you know, differences of opinions, some of them sometimes escalate, get heated. That's going to happen over the years.
5:45 Speaker 01 It's, uh, just part of being in a relationship.
5:49 Speaker 00 Connie and Richard lived in Ellington, Connecticut with their two boys, who were six and nine years old when she died. Richard was an IT technician. Connie was a pharmaceutical sales rep. She was always one of the first people to volunteer for her children's school. And so, you know, it seems to me as though they both had, you know, really good jobs. Pharmaceutical sales reps can make a boatload of money.
6:16 Speaker 01 All the ones I've ever known made a boatload of money. Plus, it was a lot of fun to take their keys when they didn't know you took them and go out to their trunk and get into their inventory.
6:28 Speaker 00 I know you show up like every week with samples of things, stuff that I don't even think you're supposed to be taking. I don't even think you know what it is.
6:37 Speaker 01 You gotta try things.
6:38 Speaker 00 Connie's friend, Kim Phillips, recalled about Connie, "You would automatically just be attracted to her personality. You would want to spend more time with her."
6:48 Speaker 01 There's people like that.
6:49 Speaker 00 There, there absolutely is. You and I have known them, let's say through our work or whatever it is. There's some people that you just gravitate towards, you look forward to talking to, to being around, and there are others that you do not.
7:07 Speaker 01 You turn the other way.
7:08 Speaker 00 Yes.
7:10 Speaker 01 Quickly.
7:11 Speaker 00 People in their neighborhood were envious of their marriage and seemingly idyllic life. And you, I know we've talked about that before, right? There are marriages that look perfect.
7:24 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
7:25 Speaker 00 From the outside. They aren't always what they appear, but again, you know, if you're a neighbor, if you're a friend, you may not always see the worst things that are going on. You see people who are putting their best foot forward.
7:45 Speaker 01 You just get to see the cover of the book.
7:47 Speaker 00 On the morning of December 23rd, 2015, Connie was killed while her boys were at school. Richard claimed that he came home around 9:00 AM because he forgot his laptop. He received a text alert that their house alarm had been activated. He then saw what he described as a large masked intruder. With a deep Vin Diesel-like voice, he was armed with a knife and demanded Richard's wallet and PIN.
8:20 Speaker 00 Vendiso voice. Okay. A little Fast and the Furious action. Yeah. At that time, Connie returned from her workout at the YMCA, entering through the garage. Richard said that he shouted for his wife to run. According to Richard, Connie rushed to the basement, presumably to get a gun they kept in a lockbox. The intruder chased Connie and shot her. Richard tripped down the stairs, attempting to go after them. He claimed he heard a gunshot and couldn't hear Connie for about five minutes. The intruder then attacked Richard. He zip tied him to a folding chair, stabbed him with a box cutter, and burned him with a blowtorch that was kept in the basement.
9:06 Speaker 00 Richard said that when the intruder pointed the gun at him, he wrestled with him before burning his face with the blowtorch. And then the intruder fled the house. Richard was able to crawl upstairs, press the panic button on the alarm system, and call 911 at 10:11 a.m. So there's a lot here to unpack. Sure is. First of all, very scary, right? To return home and find a masked intruder with a knife inside your house. Absolutely. And then the story goes on as Richard is telling it that, you know, Connie comes home. He's yelling at her to run, right? He wants to protect her.
9:51 Speaker 00 And so he's telling her, run, get out of here. But she doesn't do that. She heads down to the basement because, as he said, that's where they kept, you know, their gun. And then as he's trying to get down there, he trips, he falls. And then he ultimately has this encounter with the intruder, gets stabbed with a box knife. Yeah. Burned with a blowtorch and zip tied to a chair. Crap, the way to start your morning. Yeah, if it happened like that, it sure would be. But I think some of the, the parts of that story are, are really going to be scrutinized. First of all, if this intruder has a knife, why are you not stabbed with a knife?
10:35 Speaker 00 Why are you stabbed with a box cutter?
10:37 Speaker 01 Right.
10:38 Speaker 00 Now, box cutters wouldn't be fun to be stabbed with.
10:42 Speaker 01 No, or worst case, they would slice you with it.
10:45 Speaker 00 Yeah, I mean, the blade on a box knife normally doesn't protrude that far.
10:50 Speaker 01 Right.
10:51 Speaker 00 It would hurt.
10:52 Speaker 01 Sure.
10:52 Speaker 00 Cause an injury, but it wouldn't be as damaging as a big K bar, right?
10:58 Speaker 01 Well, that is true.
10:59 Speaker 00 Obviously, we know that. A blowtorch wouldn't feel good.
11:04 Speaker 01 No.
11:05 Speaker 00 But wouldn't kill you. The other thought I had is that would it be possible for someone to zip tie themselves to a chair? And I think the answer to that is yeah.
11:18 Speaker 01 Oh, absolutely. I zip tie myself to things all the time just to see what it would be like.
11:22 Speaker 00 Well, you call me, I show up, you were zip tied. You say you've done it yourself, but I don't buy those stories all the time.
11:31 Speaker 01 A few times, maybe I didn't. But I was thinking, you know, if he, if he went ahead and he shot Connie, this intruder, why wouldn't he just go ahead and shoot him too?
11:42 Speaker 00 Oh, shoot Richard? That's a great point. Why, why is there a box cutter? Why is there a blowtorch?
11:47 Speaker 01 Yeah, why go through all this show? Just shoot him like he shot Connie.
11:52 Speaker 00 It's kind of like Raiders of the Lost Ark. When Harrison Ford's standing there, this guy pulls out this big sword.
11:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
12:00 Speaker 00 He just pulls out his gun and shoots him.
12:02 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's done.
12:03 Speaker 00 It's over with. So I think you're bringing up an excellent point. So Richard's able to alert 911. Police found him partially zip tied to a folding chair with what were described as superficial knife wounds. According to police documents, Richard moaned and said, they're still in the house. When officers first arrived, he claimed his wife had been killed by a masked intruder. One team canvassed the neighborhood while another dusted for prints, swabbed for DNA, and took photos of the crime scene. A revolver believed to be the murder weapon was found near Connie's body. She had been shot once in the stomach and once in the back of the head.
12:47 Speaker 00 And it turned out that this gun was owned by the debates. Richard had purchased it two months earlier.
12:56 Speaker 01 That's not gonna look too good.
12:58 Speaker 00 No, it's not. But you know, back to your point, if the intruder has the gun, why does he only shoot Connie and leave Richard with superficial wounds? You know, even a revolver probably has six shots. So if he shot Connie twice, more than likely, he's got four bullets left. You would think he could have easily shot Richard, but he doesn't.
13:24 Speaker 01 Right.
13:24 Speaker 00 So, you know, if you're the authorities, you have to be asking that question.
13:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, because it's not like you're trying to keep the sound down at that point. You already fired it off twice anyway.
13:33 Speaker 00 Yes.
13:34 Speaker 01 So, two more times, four more times is not gonna make a difference.
13:38 Speaker 00 The other thing that would kind of stand out to me is it's always interesting when someone, a perpetrator, uses a gun that they found in the house.
13:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:52 Speaker 00 Okay, did they know a gun was there? Did they know where it was? You know, these are all questions that I'm sure authorities are asking.
14:02 Speaker 01 Yeah, and how did he get that gun out of that safe?
14:04 Speaker 00 If it was in a safe.
14:05 Speaker 01 It was supposed to be in a safe because that's why she ran down there to retrieve the gun out of the safe.
14:11 Speaker 00 Connie's phone and Fitbit tracker, it was tucked into her waistband, were collected for analysis. Richard was interviewed for seven hours, the day of the attack. And I think it was pretty clear to authorities very early on that his story just didn't add up. Initially, he said he heard Connie get shot. But the next minute, he said, he witnessed the shooting.
14:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
14:38 Speaker 00 Those are obviously two very different things. His timeline was also questionable. Richard said he got home at 9:00 a.m. And Connie arrived five minutes later and was killed. However, he called 911 at 10:19 a.m. Meaning that there was over an hour of time unaccounted for.
14:59 Speaker 01 So this is not going to be looking good for Richard in the eyes of the detectives?
15:04 Speaker 00 No, I think very early on, they had more questions than answers, right? And, and more suspicions regarding Richard. Detectives questioned if the debates were victims of a deadly but random home invasion, or if they were targeted. Apparently, they had a bitter dispute with a contractor. But this line of investigation was a dead end because the man turned out to have a very strong alibi. Connie's friends and family questioned Richard's actions following her murder. According to Connie's friend, Kim Phillips, she and her friends were the last people at Connie's graveside after the funeral. Not Richard. He left.
15:49 Speaker 01 And that's strange, too, I feel.
15:53 Speaker 00 Yeah, I get it. Yeah, you could make the argument that he was tired. He'd been dealing with the police. He'd been dealing with funeral plans. But if this is the love of your life, your soulmate, your one and only, I, for many people, you're going to have to drag them away.
16:15 Speaker 01 Exactly.
16:16 Speaker 00 And put them in the car. Most people don't just say, oh, okay, and turn around and leave. Connie's sister-in-law, Donna Judge, also noticed Richard left the burial reception quickly. Some thought he seemed too happy for someone whose wife was just murdered.
16:35 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, I get it. But I also understand people handle things differently. You know, I mean, maybe it's how he deals with things.
16:46 Speaker 00 Yeah, people grieve in different ways. I mean, that's a saying, but seeming too happy? That's something that is kind of hard to fathom.
16:55 Speaker 01 Yeah.
16:56 Speaker 00 Maybe not crying as much as someone thinks you should have. Okay, I get that. Maybe you cried for two days straight, you cried out. But how are you going to be giddy or too, or too happy?
17:09 Speaker 01 Yeah.
17:09 Speaker 00 That doesn't, that doesn't seem to add up.
17:12 Speaker 01 But if this is a family member, you would think the family member probably has a pretty good gauge of this individual's personality.
17:20 Speaker 00 Oh, and how they act in different situations. Yeah, probably.
17:26 Speaker 00 Rumors persisted, but 18 months passed with no arrests. Investigators were still working behind the scenes. Detectives continued to question Richard's account because there was no sign of forced entry and no intruder scent was picked up by police dogs. And, you know, when you think about someone planning a murder ahead of time.
17:50 Speaker 01 Yeah.
17:51 Speaker 00 Is that something that they would likely think about? Okay, I'm going to say that an intruder broke into the house. Probably not going to factor in that a dog is not going to pick up anyone's scent, but my wife and I.
18:09 Speaker 01 See, and this is why I keep a bottle of intruder scent in my garage for the times that I may need it.
18:17 Speaker 00 Is that Amazon?
18:19 Speaker 01 It actually is.
18:19 Speaker 00 Just called Intruder Scent?
18:21 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, it's $29.99. I don't know how good it is.
18:25 Speaker 00 It's just the sweat of swarthy men.
18:28 Speaker 01 I, I have not opened it yet. It's on my shelf. To be fair, I first bought it off of Timu, but it came in a much smaller bottle. I thought it was going to be a big bottle, but it came into like a micro sized bottle. I was like, oh, Timu, you got me. So.
18:44 Speaker 00 Intruder scent. Oh my goodness. But we mentioned Connie's Fitbit, right? And this is such a huge part of this case. Data from Connie's Fitbit proved that Richard was lying. On April 14th, 2017, Richard was charged with murder, tampering with or fabricating physical evidence and providing a false statement. At the time of the arrest, people reported that for more than a year, police were unable to track down Connie's Fitbit. However, a 2025 article by Oxygen states that Connie's Fitbit was collected on the day of the murder. And we kind of said that.
19:25 Speaker 01 Right.
19:26 Speaker 00 That's the way that some of the research said, but there was some conflicting data. Investigators created a detailed timeline using Fitbit data, cell phone and computer data and the house alarm ball.
19:42 Speaker 00 And we talked about it Gibbs on our episode coming out this Thursday. Digital footprints, right? I just don't know that people understand the breadth and scope of our digital footprint.
19:58 Speaker 01 Oh, it's pretty detailed out there.
20:00 Speaker 00 And what's retrievable and all of that good stuff.
20:04 Speaker 01 I think a lot of times people think that because they delete it off their phone or delete this or that it's gone. But it's not gone.
20:13 Speaker 00 Richard said he took the boys to the bus stop, came back home to get a work shirt and left at 8:30 a.m. Connie was home getting ready for a workout class at the YMCA. Fitbit data showed she left at 8:46 a.m. Richard logged into a computer at the house at 9:01 a.m. At 9:04, Richard sent his supervisor at work an email saying an alarm at the house went off and he'd have to return to check it. According to Richard's statement, Connie was murdered minutes later. But her Fitbit showed she was moving inside the house at 9:23 a.m. She went on Facebook between 9:40 and 9:46 a.m.
20:57 Speaker 00 Posting videos to her page from her phone. Between 9:18 and 10:05 a.m. She walked 1,217 feet. The total distance it would take Connie to walk from the car to the basement, as she did in Richard's statement, was no more than 125 feet.
21:19 Speaker 01 So there's a lot more to the story.
21:22 Speaker 00 Well, and there's a lot that's contradicting his version.
21:26 Speaker 01 Oh, for sure.
21:27 Speaker 00 Investigators brought a canine unit to the scene. The dog was tasked with trying to find the scent of the alleged intruder. On the first try, the dog was unable to follow the intruder's scent. On a second attempt, the dog turned his attention to Richard. The dog even climbed into the ambulance, showing further interest in him.
21:51 Speaker 01 Wow.
21:52 Speaker 00 So, I mean, we've talked about how amazing these dogs are. Whether it's, you know, like people tracking, bomb sniffing, drug sniffing. It is just amazing to me what all these dogs can be trained to do.
22:09 Speaker 01 Think you can train them to sniff anything.
22:12 Speaker 00 All right. Yeah, I'm gonna leave that one alone. I had a bunch of good comebacks, but none are flattering. In total, three scent dogs failed to pick up the scent of anyone but Richard in the home. And that's where your intruder scent would come in very handy.
22:28 Speaker 01 Absolutely. I had a package for three for $79.99, but I didn't think I needed that much.
22:34 Speaker 00 You'll probably be reordering.
22:37 Speaker 01 Never know.
22:37 Speaker 00 According to the arrest warrant, the swabbing of the handle grip of the gun found Richard's DNA and DNA from an unidentified person. A gunshot residue test on Richard's hands was negative, but his shirt had residue on it. And I'm always a little bit leery about the whole gunshot residue test. I mean, can you wash your hands enough to get rid of gunshot residue? I mean, I, you know me, I, I shoot quite a bit. I was a competitive shooter for many, many years. I've got a ton of products that are designed to get rid of lead and, and things on your hands.
23:22 Speaker 01 So is it as simple as washing your hands once with the right stuff to get rid of the GSR? Or do you have to use it multiple times?
23:29 Speaker 00 Yeah, I, I don't know. Maybe just washing them four or five times. At some point, you probably could get rid of it.
23:36 Speaker 01 Yeah.
23:36 Speaker 00 Is my thought. Now, what he probably didn't think about was residue landing on his shirt. State police learned that five days after the murder, Richard put in a claim for Connie's $475,000 life insurance policy. He had canceled his own policy two years earlier. They also discovered that less than a month after the murder, he withdrew $93,000 from an investment account in Connie's name.
24:07 Speaker 01 You know, is there a correct time to file for insurance money?
24:14 Speaker 00 Yeah, I, I don't know that, you know, on its face, it's all that incriminating.
24:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
24:19 Speaker 00 I, I think for me, even five days later, it would probably be the last thing on my mind.
24:27 Speaker 01 I would think so too.
24:28 Speaker 00 Because I'd be so grief stricken and, and dealing with. Everything that, you know, would have come along with that, but the other thing is, I mean, did he need the money? We said it, right? He had a good job.
24:42 Speaker 01 Yeah.
24:43 Speaker 00 But it makes it seem like he did when he's, he's claiming for the, the basically half a million and he's withdrawing almost a hundred thousand from her investment account.
24:54 Speaker 01 Just seems a little too soon for me.
24:57 Speaker 00 I, I get it. You, you might need a little bit of money to replace her income.
25:02 Speaker 01 Yeah. And you had the funeral service and things like that.
25:06 Speaker 00 But $600,000?
25:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
25:09 Speaker 00 Witnesses said they didn't recall Connie ever discussing problems in her marriage. However, investigators found the December 2014 entry in her notes app titled, "Why I Want A Divorce."
25:22 Speaker 01 That good old note app, man. The things that you can put in there.
25:25 Speaker 00 Yeah. I, I gotta be honest with you. If I found that in my wife's phone, I would be heartbroken. I don't even know what I would say.
25:34 Speaker 01 Well, don't go looking.
25:36 Speaker 00 I don't. I don't look because I don't want to find anything. The list claimed that Richard took money from a lot of accounts that don't belong to him, was an unfit parent, was uncaring towards her, didn't come home on time, and acts like a kid constantly.
25:55 Speaker 01 Well, she definitely had her issues with Richard.
25:58 Speaker 00 And I would say if true, those are, you know, pretty well founded. Richard had taken out a card without Connie's knowledge and used it to pay for flowers for his girlfriend and more than $1,200 at a strip club and stays at a nearby motel.
26:15 Speaker 01 Okay. That's not going to be good, Richard.
26:18 Speaker 00 No, maybe now we're, we're getting into the area of why he's trying to obtain the life insurance money so quickly, why he's taking money out of Connie's investment accounts. I mean, you know, making it rain like a baller at a strip club. Unless you use ones like you do is it's not an inexpensive proposition.
26:43 Speaker 01 You gotta make the night last a little bit longer. Can't go in there and make it rain with hundreds like you.
26:48 Speaker 00 According to the arrest warrant, Richard and Connie fought over the TV bill the night before the murder. Connie claimed Richard was lying to her. Well, and let's be honest, it does sound as though based on some of these things that came out that he was lying to her.
27:06 Speaker 01 I'm gonna say he probably was, right? I mean, if he's gonna be lying about, uh, or not lying, but not telling her about how he's using this other credit card to buy flowers and, you know, strip club money and motel nights.
27:21 Speaker 00 Well, and let's not forget the flowers were for his girlfriend. So that's kind of the biggest lie of them all. Investigators had known of Richard's potential motive since December 2015. While he was in the hospital, Richard admitted to having an affair with his longtime friend Sarah Ganzer. She became pregnant in May 2015. The day before Connie died, Richard texted Sarah, "I'll see you tomorrow, my little love nugget."
27:52 Speaker 01 Oh, my little love nugget.
27:55 Speaker 00 I, I get the, the kind of pet names and, you know, intimate talk. Uh, love nugget just doesn't seem to fit into that.
28:09 Speaker 00 Just the word nugget itself shouldn't be used, I don't think, in, in sappy love talk.
28:16 Speaker 01 No, it just doesn't apply.
28:18 Speaker 00 He and Sarah had a spat about him and Connie going on a weekend trip to Vermont. Sarah allegedly texted him, "We're both navigating through bizarre circumstances. We are both experiencing new feelings and coping with new situations." Sarah told investigators that Richard told her he was going to serve Connie with divorce papers. In mid-December, Richard spoke to a lawyer but never filed for divorce.
28:46 Speaker 00 Probably because divorce attorney said, look, man, you're gonna have to give her at least half. Yeah, or more, whatever it was, you're gonna lose a boatload of money. And I know I've said this before, I get it, marriages don't work out. Even some of these marriages that from the outside look like they're the, the perfect union. They end up not working out and at least one person, if not both people, want to go their separate ways. That happens. It does. The divorce rate's fairly high, let's be honest. The part that strikes me, and I guess the part I don't get, is, once you get to that
29:28 Speaker 00 situation, where you or your significant other has made the decision that they want out. I get it, you might be the one who wants it, or you might be opposed to it, but at what point does someone start to think, well, I would be better off if I just killed my partner, my spouse? That's what I don't get. How do you go from, I'm heartbroken because my relationship is ending to, I'm gonna kill this person for financial gain? Yeah. Takes a special type of individual to think that way. Richard allegedly told the police there was cheating going on in the beginning on both sides.
30:13 Speaker 00 He was surprised by the pregnancy allegedly saying, the situation popped up like a fricking soap opera. Well, that is the chance you're taking whenever you're, you're having an affair. Yeah, I mean, you knew what you were doing. You knew what could happen. Yeah. Potentially. He initially said Connie was well aware of what happened and wanted to have another baby but couldn't. He said he did some untraditional things. And his girlfriend became pregnant, he claimed it was Connie's idea in a way.
30:48 Speaker 01 Oh, it's Connie's idea because Connie's not here to back that story up at all.
30:52 Speaker 00 Or refute it. And there's also like every woman listening to this who is now rolling their eyes.
30:59 Speaker 01 Exactly.
31:00 Speaker 00 Saying it was her idea in a way.
31:04 Speaker 01 Yeah, in a way, it's kind of what she wanted me to do.
31:07 Speaker 00 Well, he said they planned to co-parent the baby.
31:11 Speaker 01 Oh.
31:12 Speaker 00 But Connie's friends and family said, there was no way she would have agreed to such an arrangement. And she would have been angry to find out Richard was cheating. So, you know, let's just weigh this on our plausibility scale. On one side, you have Connie agreeing to Richard not only cheating, but having a baby.
31:36 Speaker 01 Right.
31:36 Speaker 00 With another woman and what the three of them are going to co-parent this baby. On the other side, you have Connie would be furious if she even knew he was cheating. Which one seems more plausible?
31:51 Speaker 01 I don't see that working out for any guy. Hey babe, I'm gonna cheat on you. And I think I'm gonna have a baby with her. But you know what? Here, here is the silver lining. You and I are gonna co-parent with her and grow this baby, you know, up.
32:11 Speaker 00 But what's even more ridiculous is he's saying that it was her idea.
32:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
32:16 Speaker 00 In a way.
32:17 Speaker 01 Yeah.
32:18 Speaker 00 To do that.
32:19 Speaker 01 Okay, Richard.
32:20 Speaker 00 Richard then changed his story and said the pregnancy was accidental.
32:25 Speaker 01 There's the truth.
32:28 Speaker 00 Well, there's always that part, right? In every case where the person changes their story. And why do they change their story? And for me, it's a couple of reasons. One, either they're hit with irrefutable evidence that their story is BS and couldn't possibly be true. Or, you know, maybe he talked to an attorney and the attorney said, hey dude, what you're saying is not believable. You you need to come up with something else.
32:56 Speaker 01 And it and it doesn't even play, right? I mean, why why even make up such a bullshit story? When you just come out of the gate right away and said, yeah, she got pregnant by accident.
33:08 Speaker 00 Richard debates murder trial started on April 4, 2022. A jury was selected back in early 2020, but state court shut down due to the pandemic. A judge dismissed that jury in August 2021 and a new panel was chosen in early 2022. And it seems like a lifetime ago, right? 2020.
33:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:32 Speaker 00 It was six years ago.
33:34 Speaker 01 It was.
33:34 Speaker 00 But.
33:35 Speaker 01 You're good with your math.
33:36 Speaker 00 It seems like even longer.
33:38 Speaker 01 It does.
33:39 Speaker 00 To me, but I do remember, I mean, just so many cases being pushed. Because the just things weren't working. A lot of things weren't working.
33:51 Speaker 01 I wasn't working.
33:52 Speaker 00 No, you were not.
33:55 Speaker 00 The jury heard that Richard claimed a masked intruder broke in and killed Connie, then burned and tied him to a chair. However, as we said earlier, a police K nine unit did not detect anyone else's presence in the home. Additionally, Connie's Fitbit data indicated she was moving around for an hour after Richard said she was killed. And how many times do we say, Gibbs, that, you know, the victim is not around to refute someone's statement?
34:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:27 Speaker 00 But here she is refuting Richard's detailed version, at least her Fitbit is.
34:35 Speaker 01 Yeah, her Fitbit's telling her story.
34:38 Speaker 00 The prosecution argued that Richard had been planning the murder for months. He purchased a gun that Connie didn't know about. While Richard claimed he told Connie about the affair, there was no evidence of that in their messages or between Connie and her family and friends. And I'm just thinking about me personally, right? If this was something that came up in my marriage. I know for a fact, there would be texts back and forth. If my wife was angry, she'd send me a text from work.
35:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:14 Speaker 00 Because it would just hit her all of a sudden that she got angry.
35:18 Speaker 01 And she'd want to let you know about it.
35:20 Speaker 00 Yes. And I'm sure that happens in many other relationships as well. And I'm not even talking about cheating. If it was cheating, you know, all bets are off.
35:32 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
35:33 Speaker 00 There's no limit to what might be said during texts or voicemails or whatever.
35:39 Speaker 01 She might be sending you a text just saying, you left the butter out on the counter all day. I'm not happy about that.
35:46 Speaker 00 Oh, I get those already.
35:47 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:48 Speaker 00 And I'm not cheating. So I think it'd be much worse than that. But there was evidence of Connie's plans to leave Richard. She had a list of reasons for wanting a divorce. And infidelity was not among those reasons. And I think that says a lot, right? We mentioned this kind of Apple iPhone Notes app, right? And she had her list of reasons for wanting to divorce Richard. You would think if she knew he was having an affair, that would probably be the first entry.
36:23 Speaker 01 It would definitely be on the list, if not the very first thing. Yeah.
36:27 Speaker 00 The defense argued the investigation was mishandled. Investigators had tunnel vision and made up their minds about Richard and worked backwards from there. Key locations of interest were not looked into and not enough DNA was collected. The defense questioned the accuracy of Connie's Fitbit data and emphasized that unidentified DNA was found in six areas of the crime scene. The defense also laid out a six-minute timeline after the moment Richard allegedly triggered the panic alarm, asking the jury whether it would have been possible for Richard to, in that brief time, stage an elaborate crime scene.
37:10 Speaker 01 I'm sorry, but he could stage the scene before he pushed the panic button?
37:13 Speaker 00 Yeah, well, that's a great point. I would never do it, but I don't really know how long it takes. To cut yourself with a box knife, burn yourself with the, with the blowtorch, and then zip tie your hand to a folding chair.
37:27 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's one minute, 19 seconds.
37:28 Speaker 00 Okay. Investigators testified that they found no forced entry to the home, or evidence someone fled the property. They also said Richard never asked how Connie was, or showed concern. And I find that to be, in many cases, such a big thing, right? If this is your wife, your husband, your significant other, a person whom you're allegedly in love with.
37:55 Speaker 01 Right.
37:56 Speaker 00 And you know something happened to them. You said you heard a gunshot. Would your first question not be, "How is my wife?"
38:05 Speaker 01 Yeah, is she okay?
38:07 Speaker 00 You know who doesn't ask those questions?
38:09 Speaker 01 Someone already knows the answer.
38:10 Speaker 00 Exactly. Three state police canine handlers testified about searching the home to locate the intruder sent. Trooper Ryan Kluki testified, "It was determined there was no exit trails, leaving that residence." Another handler testified the same. Dr. Keith Diaz, an assistant professor at Columbia University School of Medicine, and an established expert on wearable fitness devices, testified that the Fitbit one, which Connie was wearing, was 98% accurate. When asked by the defense, he testified that it was unlikely that the device, the Fitbit, was synced with, did not have the accurate time.
38:55 Speaker 01 It works 74% of the time, all the time. Or what was that guy saying?
38:59 Speaker 00 60% of the time, it works every time.
39:01 Speaker 01 There you go.
39:02 Speaker 00 Now, if you think about what he's saying, right? You think about syncing up to a cellphone or a computer.
39:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
39:12 Speaker 00 I mean, when's the last time you looked at your cellphone or your computer and the time wasn't right?
39:16 Speaker 01 Well, that's true. It's always correct.
39:19 Speaker 00 Sarah Ganser testified about her affair with Richard. In the months before the murder, she never pushed Richard for a divorce, not even after finding out she was pregnant. She said, per the Journal Inquirer, "I did not want to break up their family." She did hope the divorce would happen and was frustrated and fed up by Richard's back and forth statements on the subject. Richard and Sarah had known each other since they were children in school. After she got divorced in 2014, she moved back to Manchester and communicated with Richard as friends. In May 2015, they began a romantic relationship.
40:01 Speaker 00 It was later that month, she became pregnant with his child. She told Richard about the baby in June. That same month, Richard said he was preparing for divorce by fixing up the house to get it ready to sell.
40:15 Speaker 01 Sounds like, uh, Richard probably liked, uh, having his cake and eating it too.
40:22 Speaker 00 As a lot of these men that we talk about do, right? They're selfish, they're narcissistic, they think that the entire world revolves around them, what they want, you know, all of that stuff. Now, some women listening will say, "You're talking about every man I've ever met." And that could be true, I, I don't know. My wife might say some of the same things about me.
40:49 Speaker 01 Possibly.
40:50 Speaker 00 But I do want to touch on Sarah for a little bit, you know, I don't want to run her down. People have affairs.
40:57 Speaker 01 Well, that happens.
40:58 Speaker 00 I, I know that, that happens. She was not married at the time, but she certainly knew that Richard was. Now, what is he telling her? You know, "I, I'm, my marriage is terrible, I'm in the process of, of getting a divorce." You can imagine what this guy is saying.
41:16 Speaker 01 He's telling her everything that he thinks she wants to hear.
41:19 Speaker 00 Yes, and that is probably going to make her feel okay with having this relationship because she thinks his is over.
41:30 Speaker 00 And it's just, it's just a matter of finalizing it. Almost as if someone is separated.
41:35 Speaker 01 Right, right. She's like, I'm not breaking this family up. This, this relationship's breaking up with or without me.
41:40 Speaker 00 Yeah, it's already broken.
41:42 Speaker 01 Yeah. So I'm with the guy I really like. And I'm okay with that, knowing that I'm not the reason behind this.
41:49 Speaker 00 Now, in August, Richard said he was thinking about staying with Connie. Then in November, he said he was going to move out. And he and Connie were on the same page about divorce.
42:01 Speaker 01 Oh, were they?
42:03 Speaker 00 Well, according to him, right, he's telling this to Sarah. But he's also giving her mixed signals. You know, one minute divorce, another minute, I'm staying with my wife. And then again, it's back to we're getting a divorce.
42:17 Speaker 01 Yeah. So he's, you know, messing with Sarah's head.
42:20 Speaker 00 Sarah acknowledged that there were times during that year when she told Richard to leave her alone, but he always made his way back into her life. She planned to parent her daughter alone and didn't even tell her mother, Richard was the father until after Connie was killed. Richard wasn't present for the birth, but they did co-parent for a time and resumed their relationship around 2017, 2018. When possible, Richard would come over to help with their daughter.
42:52 Speaker 01 That's the co-parenting.
42:54 Speaker 00 In October 2021, Sarah filed a child custody application seeking sole custody with a parenting plan and visitation schedule. Richard was called as a defense witness and recounted his marriage to Connie. He testified that their youngest son had a cleft lip and needed medical treatment. The trips from Connecticut to Boston and the costs incurred put pressure on their relationship. He said he and Connie had good days and bad days. Richard testified that he told Connie about the affair and they had more good days than bad.
43:34 Speaker 01 So you start an affair. You tell your significant other, hey, I'm having an affair. And then after that, you have more good days than bad days?
43:47 Speaker 00 Wouldn't go that way for most people.
43:48 Speaker 01 I don't think so. Otherwise, people be.
43:54 Speaker 01 Starting affairs out here.
43:56 Speaker 00 Now, he could also be saying, you know, in the first years, those were all good. And then there was some bad in the last few, but there was more good than bad. I mean, you gotta parse out people's language. What do they really mean?
44:11 Speaker 01 That's true.
44:12 Speaker 00 It's hard to believe if he did tell her that after they had more good days than bad. According to W T and H, he said, I love two women and I didn't want to push either of them away. What does that gives? You said it earlier. Having your cake.
44:32 Speaker 01 Eating it too.
44:33 Speaker 00 And eating it too.
44:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:35 Speaker 00 He agreed that Sarah never pressured him to get a divorce. Richard testified that he came home on the morning of December 23rd, 2015, after realizing on his way to work that he left his laptop at home. When he got home, he heard a noise upstairs. He went upstairs and was met by a masked man, much larger than him, who was wearing a hunting style suit and had a deep voice like Vin Diesel.
45:03 Speaker 01 Vin Diesel is probably like, why is this guy bringing up my voice?
45:08 Speaker 00 Why is he putting me in the middle of this murder trial? The man robbed him, then chased Connie into the basement and shot her. He tied Richard to a folding chair, stabbed him in the legs and fled. Once they were in the basement, he heard one gunshot and saw Connie fall motionless to the ground. This is all according to W T and H. And again, let's go back and analyze this. You know, at one point he said, he only heard the gunshot.
45:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
45:40 Speaker 00 He never actually saw Connie get shot. Now he's telling something a little different, but I want to go back to, you know, something that we touched on earlier, which is, so you have this masked man who is willing to shoot a woman, a mother, a wife, but he just ties Richard up to the folding chair and stabs him in his legs.
46:05 Speaker 01 Who ties somebody up to a folding chair? Yeah, it's like you're at Little League or soccer and.
46:13 Speaker 00 What kind of Little League and soccer did you play? I never got tied to no folding chairs.
46:17 Speaker 01 What are these, these like? Really weak folding chairs you're getting zip tied to like that's gonna hold somebody from moving like I got you zip down in that folding chair buddy you're not going anywhere. Well, you will be going somewhere because they're not very heavy and you're able to wiggle yourself out or.
46:36 Speaker 00 But also, what is stabbing someone in the legs with a box knife?
46:42 Speaker 01 Yeah.
46:42 Speaker 00 Gonna do now if you severed their femoral artery, that's different.
46:46 Speaker 01 Sure.
46:47 Speaker 00 But these are superficial wounds.
46:49 Speaker 01 Yeah.
46:50 Speaker 00 And what does that normally tell us about the scenario? I think more often than not, the person inflicted those wounds themselves.
47:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, exactly. Now, this time around, they he happened to leave out the blowtorch.
47:06 Speaker 00 Yeah, he did. In closing arguments, prosecutor Matthew Godanski said that Richard hatched a plan to kill Connie and stage a home invasion as his life was about to unravel with the upcoming birth of his girlfriend's child. Again, the defense questioned the reliability of the data from the Fitbit tracker, arguing they weren't designed with the accuracy needed for court testimony. The defense also pointed to unknown DNA found in the home, including on the murder weapon. And we say this all the time, right? The defense has to try a bunch of different things.
47:48 Speaker 01 Sure they do.
47:49 Speaker 00 They are trying hard to plant any type of reasonable doubt seed that they can. Is the Fitbit tracker data reliable enough for court testimony? Well, you had one witness professional who said it was. And then you have this unknown DNA. How could unknown DNA be on a murder weapon?
48:14 Speaker 00 You think maybe it's the person who sold it to him two months ago?
48:18 Speaker 01 Could have been.
48:18 Speaker 00 Maybe. I have no idea.
48:20 Speaker 01 Could have been somebody looking at the gun, could have been somebody, like you said, at one time had it in their possession.
48:26 Speaker 00 The defense emphasized testimony from a housekeeper who said they may have seen a dark, dark green figure move past that window around the time of the crime. However, it should be noted per the Hartford Current that the housekeeper said it may have been a deer or a reflection. All right. Yeah, I don't know what you make of that.
48:48 Speaker 01 Yeah.
48:48 Speaker 00 On May 10th, 2022, Richard DeBate was found guilty of murder, tampering with evidence, and making a false statement to authorities. After the conviction, longtime friend and neighbor Wayne Rue spoke on behalf of Connie's family, saying, "The pain of Connie's loss and the length of this trial has been especially hurtful to the family. Connie is no longer here for family gatherings, holidays, or her children's milestones. Connie was essentially sentenced to death, while this convicted murderer has been living his life while out on parole for six and a half years." Okay, if I'm the family, I am ticked about that.
49:33 Speaker 01 It's a long time to be out and about. I mean, I know we had COVID during that time, so you gotta put that into the equation.
49:40 Speaker 00 Yeah, you do. You do. And I, and I get it, you know, sometimes even for people charged with murder, there can be bail bond, you know?
49:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
49:52 Speaker 00 So I think they had some money. I still don't understand why he needed to try to get his hands on all this money so quickly. I do wonder, was he able to use any of that money to post bond?
50:07 Speaker 01 Yeah.
50:08 Speaker 00 Cause you'd be mad as the family about that as well.
50:10 Speaker 01 Of course you would.
50:12 Speaker 00 State's attorney Matthew Gdansky said that while technology helped prove Richard was guilty, Connie's murder was an example of domestic violence. He said, "In the end, though, this was another case of domestic violence. And though much progress has been made in recent years to support victims and survivors, and to hold abusers accountable, these domestic violence homicides are still happening. So we must continue to work together to end domestic violence."
50:42 Speaker 01 Hey, man, we really do. I mean, if you think about this case, and if you think about the case that is dropping Thursday, you know, it's another domestic violence case.
50:53 Speaker 00 Well, you know what people get scared about? You know, John Wayne Gacy, Richard Ramirez.
51:01 Speaker 01 Yeah.
51:01 Speaker 00 Ted Bundy, right? Those people are scary, and don't get me wrong, but I think they pale in comparison to the number of domestic violence homicides that happen in one year. Right? They're scary because they killed a bunch of people.
51:17 Speaker 01 Sure.
51:17 Speaker 00 And I get that. But to your point, this is a, it's a real epidemic. I don't know what the answer is. I'm sometimes ashamed of my, my gender because obviously we know it's predominantly males who commit these types of heinous crimes. And I just, even after 10 years of doing, you know, the research for these episodes, I still fail to be able to wrap my mind around it.
51:51 Speaker 01 Yeah, I get it. You know, I, things aren't working out, go your separate ways, you know?
51:57 Speaker 00 I don't understand killing a stranger for money.
52:00 Speaker 01 Yeah.
52:01 Speaker 00 And I certainly don't understand killing someone you love, someone you had children
52:08 Speaker 01 Right.
52:08 Speaker 00 with.
52:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
52:09 Speaker 00 For money. To me, that one's even, you know, harder to understand.
52:15 Speaker 01 Yeah, to kill them for money or killing them just because they don't want you anymore, but you want them. It's just, uh, sickening, really.
52:23 Speaker 00 Yeah, yeah, it is. On August 18th, 2022, Richard was sentenced to 65 years in prison. On October 30th, 2024, Richard's case was appealed before the Connecticut Supreme Court. His team argued that the prosecutor engaged in a pattern of impropriety that denied Richard a fair trial by failing to disclose evidence before trial, violating prior evidentiary rulings, asking the defendant to comment on witnesses' testimony, seeking to elicit evidence of prior uncharged misconduct, commenting on the defendant's right to remain silent,
53:04 Speaker 00 and making improper emotional appeals to the jury. In March 2025, the Connecticut Supreme Court upheld Richard's conviction, ruling Richard was not deprived of a fair trial because of four missteps by the prosecutor, which they did say were troubling.
53:24 Speaker 01 Yeah.
53:25 Speaker 00 And you actually see this quite a bit, right? There are higher courts who find that, well, the prosecutors made some mistakes, but it doesn't invalidate the trial. It wouldn't have changed the outcome of the trial, is a lot of times the, the language they use. One impropriety occurred when Matthew Gdansky mentioned the 2007 home invasion murders in Cheshire, Connecticut, where the suspects killed a woman and her two daughters after terrorizing them for hours and beating her husband. Gdansky asked Richard if he was
54:05 Speaker 00 trying to create a little mini Cheshire scene in his home. At the time, the judge upheld the defense's objection and asked Gdansky to rephrase, but he asked nearly the exact question. The state Supreme Court agreed that the question was unnecessarily inflammatory. Gdansky also suggested the jury would have to be unintelligent or lazy to agree with the defense. But despite these improprieties, the state's case was strong and the missteps didn't overshadow the testimony of 130 witnesses and 600 exhibits.
54:44 Speaker 01 That's pretty strong.
54:45 Speaker 00 It is. I think they had a really strong case. So as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, Richard debate will likely continue to appeal his conviction. But in this case, the evidence clearly shows his entire story was a lie. Richard fabricated an elaborate story about a masked intruder murdering his wife, but he didn't account for the fact that her cellphone and personal fitness device would prove Connie was alive. And well, until he killed her. And we've already talked about, you know, how unbelievable it is that, you know, someone could come to the decision that they need to murder their spouse because of whatever
55:29 Speaker 00 reason. They want to be with someone else, or they don't want to get a divorce and give up half their money. Things that many people do day in and day out. It's just part of life, but they don't want to do it. So they're more than willing to sacrifice a person's life.
55:50 Speaker 01 That and a person that at one point they were madly in love with.
55:55 Speaker 00 Yep. And had kids with.
55:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
55:57 Speaker 00 I also think this is a case of, you know, Richard thinking he was smarter than what he really was. He thought he had this all worked out.
56:07 Speaker 01 Yeah, he really did.
56:08 Speaker 00 The timing. I will cut my legs with a box knife, maybe stick a blowtorch on some part of my body. I got some zip ties here. The police are going to buy that. I'm not a policeman and I wouldn't buy that.
56:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
56:24 Speaker 00 First of all, if I'm an intruder and I've already shot a woman, why would I have any qualms about shooting you?
56:34 Speaker 01 Exactly.
56:34 Speaker 00 The male.
56:35 Speaker 01 Why would I go to the extent of tying you up to a cheesy folding chair and then just, what's the box knife to your legs doing for me? Like, what's that doing?
56:48 Speaker 00 Well, and let's not forget. He said the guy had a knife with him.
56:53 Speaker 01 Yeah.
56:53 Speaker 00 So he puts the knife down, grabs the box knife to then inflict some superficial wounds. It just doesn't make sense.
57:02 Speaker 01 It doesn't. And the blow torched, it sounds like a bunch of smoke to me, but at the end of the day, I agree. If I, if I was that guy that he said killed Connie, I would just turn the gun and kill him at the same time. Why would you leave somebody behind to tell the story? You wouldn't.
57:21 Speaker 00 Well, at that point, you're already a murderer.
57:22 Speaker 01 Yeah. So go ahead and just finish it out.
57:26 Speaker 00 Okay. Well, I wouldn't say it that way, but I, I get what you're saying. That person would do it. You're not telling them to go ahead and finish it out.
57:33 Speaker 01 No, no.
57:34 Speaker 00 You're saying the person in their mind would say, yeah, okay. Cause it came off a little bit like you're saying, just finish it out.
57:41 Speaker 01 No, I do not endorse.
57:43 Speaker 00 But that's it for our episode on Connie debate. We got a voicemail. You want to check that out?
57:49 Speaker 01 Let's hear it.
57:50 Speaker 02 Hi, my name is Emily. I am a long time listener of both Through Crime All The Time and Through Crime All The Time Unsettled. Um, I wanted to call about Larry and Connie Van Ochston. It's wild. I live right down the road from there, like 15 minutes away from Erie. And I have never heard of the thing. So it's interesting to hear about a crime that happened in my neck of the woods. And I just wanted to say it is in fact pronounced Geneseo. Um, I am Team Mike. Sorry Gibby. It is what it is. Um, so you guys have a good day and keep your own time ticking.
58:23 Speaker 01 Now, why are you saying sorry? Because you said you're Team Mike. I'm Mike.
58:28 Speaker 00 You take credit for all of them.
58:29 Speaker 01 We know what she's trying to say. You know, it's like, hey, I'm Team Mike, wink, wink. Sorry Gibby, wink, wink.
58:36 Speaker 00 She literally said, sorry Gibby. Just give me one every now and then, for the love of Pete.
58:45 Speaker 00 Now, we appreciate the voicemail.
58:47 Speaker 01 Me too.
58:47 Speaker 00 You know, it was interesting, Gibbs, because Morph and I had covered a case on criminology last week where a body was found in the Miami River here about a mile from where I live.
58:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
58:59 Speaker 00 And so I kind of experienced that a little bit where the case hit close to home. And it does give you a little bit of a different type of feeling.
59:09 Speaker 01 It does. I've been working on a case that's near where I live that we'll be doing next week. So it definitely has, like you said, that different feel.
59:19 Speaker 00 Yeah. Yeah, it hits, it just hits a little different.
59:22 Speaker 01 Yeah.
59:22 Speaker 00 No doubt about it. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of True Crime All The Time. So for Mike.
59:28 Speaker 01 And Gibby.
59:29 Speaker 00 Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.
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