Brittney Gargol

In March 2015, 18-year-old Brittney Gargol was found dead on the side of the road in Saskatoon. Police used social media to solve her murder, focusing on a selfie taken with her friend Cheyenne Antoine on the night she died. According to Cheyenne, around 4:00 am, they attended a house party, and Brittney began hanging out with an unknown man in his thirties. She and Brittney eventually parted ways. Cheyenne was dropped off at an assisted living facility, where she visited her uncle. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the murder of Brittney Gargol. After the police unraveled the mystery, her killer said they couldn't really recall the events of that night, saying, "I blacked out and woke up hours later to realize something very bad had happened." After the trial, many people have questioned whether Brittney received the justice she deserved. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetime Visit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation information An Emash Digital production See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  Hello everyone and welcome to episode 495 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

• 0:15Speaker 01

  Hey, I'm doing good. How about you?

• 0:16Speaker 00

  I am doing excelente.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  Oh, excellent day. Well, you know what? This is Thursday, we'll come out near Cinco de Mayo.

• 0:27Speaker 00

  Possibly.

• 0:28Speaker 01

  Excellent.

• 0:29Speaker 00

  I can't, I can't look that far in the future.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:32Speaker 00

  It isn't that, it'll be next week.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  Next week sometime.

• 0:34Speaker 00

  It'll be around the fifth.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  Around that time, so.

• 0:37Speaker 00

  Around the fifth, so if it comes out on that, you know, happy Cinco de Mayo.

• 0:41Speaker 01

  Exactly. If not, still happy Cinco de Mayo anyway.

• 0:43Speaker 00

  We'll drink a Corona for you or a Dos Equis.

• 0:47Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, or a shot of tequila. You don't like my tequila?

• 0:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, I used to until I got that one. So I ate the worm that one time.

• 0:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, see.

• 0:56Speaker 00

  That was it for me.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  You always, yeah.

• 0:59Speaker 00

  I always take it too far.

• 1:00Speaker 01

  You do.

• 1:01Speaker 00

  That's why I don't drink anymore.

• 1:02Speaker 01

  No self-control.

• 1:03Speaker 00

  I have no self-control. All right, buddy, you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All the Time?

• 1:08Speaker 01

  I am ready.

• 1:08Speaker 00

  We're talking about Brittany Gargol. In March 2015, 18-year-old Brittany Gargol was found dead on the side of the road in Saskatoon. Police used social media to solve her murder, focusing on a selfie taken by her friend, with her friend.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29Speaker 00

  Cheyenne Antoine on the night she died. So fascinating stuff. We're going to dive into all of it. Brittany Jane Gargol was born on August 31st, 1996 in Saskatoon, the largest city in the Canadian province of Saskatchewan.

• 1:48Speaker 01

  Saskatchewan.

• 1:49Speaker 00

  There's a lot of fun names to say here. Saskatoon is fun.

• 1:52Speaker 01

  There is.

• 1:52Speaker 00

  Saskatchewan is fun to say. Brittany was raised by her grandmother due to her mother's struggles with addiction. Her father was not in her life. So I mean, it's a, it's a rough situation.

• 2:04Speaker 01

  Sure it is.

• 2:05Speaker 00

  But it's one that unfortunately, a lot of people find themselves in.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13Speaker 00

  You know, I don't like it, but you know, let's face it, dad's dip. And I think it's a horrible thing.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:21Speaker 00

  But they do, they take off, they, they leave the family. A lot of single mothers, we've talked about that in the past. But then when you have a single mother who has either, you know, real severe alcohol or, or drug addiction, that is tough.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, at least you had a grandma that was willing to, you know, take care of her.

• 2:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, step up and take care of her.

• 2:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:48Speaker 00

  Brittany maintained a positive outlook on life. She was described as a bubbly and hyper girl.

• 2:55Speaker 01

  Bubbly.

• 2:56Speaker 00

  And a lot of people have described you in the past as bubbly and hyper.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  Can be bubbly.

• 3:01Speaker 00

  And a girl. Some, some people have.

• 3:04Speaker 01

  Whatever, whatever I need to be.

• 3:07Speaker 00

  At the time of her death, she was just a few weeks away from graduating high school. One of the people who encouraged Brittany was her friend, 32 year old Natasha Story. They became friends while working at a store in the area and remained friends after they both moved on to other jobs. Brittany often came to Natasha for advice. Brittany had gone through some rough patches and Natasha encouraged her to go to school and pursue her dream.

• 3:36Speaker 01

  That's a good friend right there.

• 3:37Speaker 00

  It is now, there's quite an age difference, right? Brittany is, you know, 18 ish, or she is 18.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:46Speaker 00

  At this point, probably met her when she was 17 or 18. And Natasha's 32, but you get the sense like that she's acting as almost like a, a big sister would.

• 3:58Speaker 01

  Sure, I mean, she's got some years in front of you, so she, she knows kind of where you're at now.

• 4:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, she's got more life experience for sure.

• 4:06Speaker 01

  You can say, well, I know where you're at and I know where you want to be from my life experience. Probably got to pursue your degree and go that route because that's what you're going to really want to do.

• 4:16Speaker 00

  It's really not a bad person to have in your life when you don't have a lot of parental guidance.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:23Speaker 00

  It sounds like Brittany didn't have much, if, if any at all. You know, you and I have probably touched on it before, but you know, there's that old saying. If I knew at seventeen, eighteen, what I know now.

• 4:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 4:38Speaker 00

  Now, you and I are a little longer in the tooth than, uh, uh, uh, Tasha was at the time, but still, even if I knew at seventeen, what I knew at thirty, I could have, you know, blown, blown the doors off this world.

• 4:53Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 4:54Speaker 00

  You know, but unfortunately you can't go back.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  And I think that's why, you know, a few years ago, I started Rex West Mentoring, uh, dot com. And, uh, it's really taken off. Um, I'm currently booked, but it looks like there might be a few openings coming up soon. You know?

• 5:10Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  Rex West Mentoring dot com.

• 5:13Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, I, I don't know who needs mentoring in the area of retirement, home exotic dancing, but if there's anybody out there, go to Rex West Mentoring dot com and, and sign up, I guess.

• 5:31Speaker 01

  The, the set of principles used to do that. Is, is. You can use them anywhere.

• 5:36Speaker 00

  They're just life skills.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:38Speaker 00

  Is that what you're saying?

• 5:38Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 5:40Speaker 00

  It's not surprising that, that you got some openings though.

• 5:44Speaker 00

  So Brittany wanted to pursue a degree in business management. Her dream was to build and own hotels.

• 5:51Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 5:52Speaker 00

  How about that?

• 5:53Speaker 01

  I like that.

• 5:54Speaker 00

  You know, we talk about what people want to do when they get older. You know, young kids, doctor, lawyer, astronaut, whatever. Then as you get older, things kind of change for some people. Now, some people might still latch on and hold on to that astronaut, doctor, lawyer dream.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 6:15Speaker 00

  But this is very specific.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  It is.

• 6:18Speaker 00

  You know, not just to own hotels, to build them.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 6:23Speaker 00

  To build your own. That's a very specific and, um,

• 6:29Speaker 00

  What's the word? Lofty.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  Lofty.

• 6:32Speaker 00

  Goal.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:33Speaker 00

  It really is. In addition to schoolwork, Brittany also had multiple jobs, including at a pizza shop and her local German cultural center. In her free time, she enjoyed outdoor activities such as snowboarding, camping and boating.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  I know you enjoy some snowboarding now and then.

• 6:52Speaker 00

  I've never been snowboarding in my life. I've never been snow skiing in my life.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Really?

• 6:57Speaker 00

  Never. Not one time. I've never gone to one, and we have some that are not that far away.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:04Speaker 00

  Where it's like snowy year round. I don't know how they do it.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  Maybe you've probably just been doing the sledding, you know, just the Clark Rizwell.

• 7:13Speaker 00

  Don't do that either.

• 7:14Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 7:15Speaker 00

  I don't do any snow sports whatsoever.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  So basically, you really do not leave this studio at all?

• 7:22Speaker 00

  No, I, I've tried regular skiing.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 7:26Speaker 00

  Couldn't get out of the water.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  No.

• 7:28Speaker 00

  They make it, people make it look so easy. My wife, my daughter, man, they just pop out of the water and they're doing one-legged thing. I can't even get out of the water. It almost pulled my arms out of the socket. Now, my weight maybe could have played a factor there. I'm sure that doesn't help.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  Could have been who was driving the boat too, you know, sometimes you need a good person behind that wheel that knows how to get you up.

• 7:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  You know?

• 7:53Speaker 00

  That's true. Cause you do have to kind of floor it.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, the right momentum. You have to hit it just right to get you up and then back down and.

• 8:01Speaker 00

  That was my one, that was my last time because I thought I, these arms are gonna come flying out. I got bad shoulders anyway.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  So sometimes can give you a, a nice little enema too, so.

• 8:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, we don't, we don't need that.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  No.

• 8:13Speaker 00

  On the night of March 23rd, 2015, Brittany decided to go out to a party in Saskatoon with her friend Cheyenne Antoine. Brittany and Cheyenne had been friends since the ninth grade. The girls bonded over their past. Early in life, Cheyenne lost both of her parents and grew up in the foster care system. She was also a survivor of childhood sexual abuse.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  Wow. So another, uh, young woman that had a, uh, rough.

• 8:44Speaker 00

  Childhood. Yeah. So I, I could see how, you know, people could bond over something like that. They went through some similar type of things.

• 8:54Speaker 00

  According to Brittany's friend, Natasha's story, both girls stopped by her home that night. Brittany asked to borrow some gas money. Natasha asked Brittany what her plans were. She said she was going out with a friend and was considering going to a party later that evening. Natasha told Brittany to be careful and to call her if she needed anything. Brittany gave her a hug and that was the last time she saw her. So, I mean, I do want to go back to, you know, Natasha. Again, she's quite a bit older, 14 years older, but really seems as though she was a good friend to Brittany. Yeah.

• 9:33Speaker 00

  Trying to help her with guidance, maybe help her with money every now and then, just like an all around good friend. Just, uh, everybody needs a good friend like that. Yeah. At 12:02 a.m. on March 24th, Brittany posted a selfie of her and Cheyenne getting ready at Brittany's home. This was Brittany's last known correspondence. And, you know, you and I talk about social media a lot. Cause it comes up in most of the cases that we do that are fairly recent. Right. Obviously in cases that occurred prior to the internet or social media, you're not going to have it. But, you know, 18 year olds, pretty big on social media.

• 10:18Speaker 00

  Absolutely. I would say from even younger to, you know, late teens, early twenties. And then I think maybe people start to slow down and they pick back up maybe when they get a little bit older. Certain age. I, I don't know because I, I'm not a huge social media person. But when you say that's the last time someone was on social media. Well, that's a pretty big deal for someone who's always on. For sure it is. You know, they're always posting, doing this and that. For me, I don't know when the last time I was on, so it's, it's really not a big deal. No, no. If I were to go missing, you wouldn't make anything out of it. Yeah, I remember when.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  I used to be on all the time.

• 11:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  And then I stopped altogether.

• 11:06Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  People thought something happened to me.

• 11:09Speaker 00

  It did.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  You know, and then, and it did. Yep. And then, you know, recently I got back on again, but, but I can see, you know, when you're posting something every day or liking and.

• 11:20Speaker 00

  And then just all of a sudden it's.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  Stops.

• 11:23Speaker 00

  Silence.

• 11:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, people, I think they're going to ask that question like, what, what happened to them?

• 11:28Speaker 00

  Well, luckily we had the podcast. People still knew you were on it.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 11:31Speaker 00

  I did get some questions about, you know, is this AI? Are you just using Gibby's voice?

• 11:38Speaker 00

  I was like, no, because if so, I would make him sound way more intelligent.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  More, more immense, I like.

• 11:46Speaker 00

  So around six AM on March 25th, 2015, a passing motorist called police after finding a female's body in a ditch on a remote road on the outskirts of Saskatoon, not far from a landfill. Okay. We're talking about landfills. Last week we were talking about like a quarry.

• 12:10Speaker 01

  Or, yeah.

• 12:10Speaker 00

  Any situation like that. Okay. I start to get a little suspicious, especially because, you know, when you're talking about a criminal case.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:22Speaker 00

  The caller noted that the victim was cold to the touch and her shoes were missing. Law enforcement immediately suspected foul play because there were marks on the victim's throat and bruising consistent with a homicide, which makes perfect sense to me.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's not good. When you, when you hear things like that, you know that she would have suffered.

• 12:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I think it's pretty easy to rule out accidental, self inflicted. You're going to rule all of that out pretty quickly based on these marks and the bruising and, and all of that. Police collected a leather jacket, a watch and a belt from the crime scene, hoping to get more information about the unidentified victim. And you know, it's interesting in a lot of these cases because number one, they have to identify the victim.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:18Speaker 00

  First and foremost, you can't really do much of an investigation without that.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, you gotta know who this person is so you know how to kind of walk backwards from that spot.

• 13:29Speaker 00

  Yeah. How do you know who to talk to, where to look? If you don't even know who the person is. That morning, they published photos of the victim's tattoos, which included a couple of stars and a lion's head. Natasha's story saw the news release and called the police to identify the victim as Brittany Gergel.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  That'd be rough.

• 13:51Speaker 00

  Oh, you know, we just got done talking about, right? Natasha, what a good friend she was. To see this kind of on the news.

• 14:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:02Speaker 00

  And you don't know anything's wrong with your friend. And the story is victim found murdered. Here are the clues we have, and you immediately know that those tattoos belong to her. I can't imagine what that's like.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  I mean, just think about it. If that was your best friend and you see that article, I mean, I just think your stomach would just sink.

• 14:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, he'd be sick.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:27Speaker 00

  Over it. She recalled, I literally dropped on my couch and started crying because I was like, there's no way. She was just here nine hours ago.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  How bizarre, you know? I mean, you just spent time with her.

• 14:40Speaker 00

  Hmm. Investigators looked through Brittany's social media accounts, hoping to recreate a timeline of her final hours. And again, I know I've talked about it, but I think that's something that investigators have now that, you know, obviously they didn't have in the 60s, 70s, 80s, even in the early 90s.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:03Speaker 00

  This kind of digital footprint. That almost all of us are leaving pretty consistently.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  Pretty true. I mean, think about social media, think about those smartwatches.

• 15:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:17Speaker 01

  That track some of your movements.

• 15:19Speaker 00

  Sure. Just logging on to the internet.

• 15:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:23Speaker 00

  Internet usage.

• 15:25Speaker 01

  Getting into some of these vehicles now, they have tracking devices in them as well.

• 15:30Speaker 00

  GPS, yeah, GPS in the phone. So I do think all of that comes into play a lot in some of the newer cases that we, that we do talk about.

• 15:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:43Speaker 00

  Police questioned Cheyenne, who said she and Brittany went bar hopping around Saskatoon, starting at Manchester Brew Pub and ending at Colonial Pub and Grill. And, you know, what led them to Cheyenne was that they saw that Cheyenne Antoine had contacted Brittany via Facebook, writing, where are you? Haven't heard from you. Hope you made it home safe.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:11Speaker 00

  So again, once you find out who the victim is, and now they know that it's Brittany, they're gonna start looking for boyfriends, friends, people in her inner circle.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  But it's interesting that, you know, Cheyenne probably called, called, didn't get a response, and then knew, you know, as most people today would, post something on social media because they know how often people view their social media accounts.

• 16:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, well, I, you know, I don't think younger people talk on the phone nearly as much as, as we used to.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  Not at all.

• 16:52Speaker 00

  I think a lot of the communication is texts, social media, things like that. I just don't hear my girls talking on their cellphones at all.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  No, I believe that. It's all.

• 17:05Speaker 00

  Much at all.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  I mean, you know, to get a hold of my son, it's like text messages, and I'm like, hey.

• 17:12Speaker 00

  Just call me, please.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  Are you available to talk?

• 17:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:16Speaker 01

  It's gonna be easier for me, instead of me doing this, you know, I can just talk to you.

• 17:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's just a different generation and.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:24Speaker 00

  You know, I know my girls, they grew up with phones from the time they were. I don't know when we got them their first iPhones, but you know, 14, 15. So you know, they're really good with the texting and all of that. And I'm just like, okay.

• 17:40Speaker 01

  They got all those shortcuts down.

• 17:42Speaker 00

  Oh, whatever. You know, and there's the emojis that half of them I still don't understand. Some of them are dirty and I'm not supposed to understand.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  You keep sending me the eggplant thing. I'm like, dude.

• 17:52Speaker 00

  Eggplant Parmesan. I don't, I don't even know what that is. Around 4am, they attended a house party and Brittany began hanging out with an unknown man in his 30s. She and Brittany eventually parted ways. Cheyenne was dropped off at an assisted living facility where she visited her uncle. Cheyenne got her uncle on the phone with police and he corroborated her story, saying he saw Cheyenne sometime after 4am on March 24th. So, I mean, obviously, I think if you're the police, you got to start to focus in on this, you know, unknown man in his 30s.

• 18:33Speaker 01

  I mean, it sounds like a good spot to start. You know, the Cheyenne's alibi doesn't sound super solid, you know, but not bad.

• 18:44Speaker 00

  Not bad, but I think you also have to look at, at motive.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 18:49Speaker 00

  What's the motive? Could be something, you know, maybe, but they've been friends since a young age. What is she going to get out of the murder?

• 19:00Speaker 01

  But this unknown man, you never know.

• 19:03Speaker 00

  No, and I think that's for me, you know, if I was a detective and I learned that, okay, I'm starting there. A few days after Brittany's body was found, her postmortem exam confirmed she was strangled and the murder weapon was the black braided belt found at the crime scene. She was not sexually assaulted. The belt was sent to the lab for testing. Two DNA profiles were identified. One matched Brittany and the other was unidentified. So.

• 19:35Speaker 00

  The one matching Brittany, you would expect. Sure. It's her belt. Yeah. Or, I mean, I'm assuming it's her belt. We don't know for sure. But it was there at the crime scene. If it was used to strangle her, you would expect her DNA to be on it. 100%. But then the other DNA profile, you have to believe is from the killer. Yeah. I mean, now, not being able to identify it is a huge hurdle. It is. At this point. Meanwhile, police began following up on Cheyenne's account of her night with Brittany.

• 20:17Speaker 00

  Surveillance footage showed both girls at the Manchester Pub, but not at the Colonial Pub and Grill. And I think, you know, for police, this cast a little bit of doubt on Cheyenne's account of the night. Additionally, security footage from the assisted living facility showed that Cheyenne never went there to visit her uncle. That's going to be a problem. Yeah, it is a problem. It's also making my statement of, okay, well, what's the motive? Looked possibly as though there was a motive and we just don't know what it is yet.

• 20:59Speaker 00

  Police talked to Cheyenne's uncle again, and he soon confessed that he lied because Cheyenne asked him to do so. She told him that she and Brittany went to a bar and eventually ended up at a motel with two men where they drank and used drugs. And you and I talk about alibis in almost every episode that we do. You know, there are strong alibis and then there are alibis like this where.

• 21:28Speaker 00

  You have someone's mom or friend or relative saying, well, that person was with me all night or from this time to this time.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:38Speaker 00

  But there's really no other way to corroborate it other than this person's word. And we've found out that a lot of those tend to fall apart.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  They do.

• 21:52Speaker 00

  Or not be true. Now, the one thing that did kind of jump out at me was, okay, they looked at surveillance footage. They didn't see Cheyenne. I'm assuming because this was an assisted living facility, that maybe there was only one way in or out? Or that they had surveillance footage on every possible entrance and exit?

• 22:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:21Speaker 00

  Cause that's the only way you could really say that.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  Like I've been to a lot of senior living homes.

• 22:26Speaker 00

  I know you have.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  And there's typically only one point of entry for visitors and guests, you know? Now, is there a back door way to sneak in? Sure, or sneak out. Um, but yeah, typically you have to go through one, one entry and, you know, they want you to sign in and all that kind of stuff.

• 22:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  So.

• 22:45Speaker 00

  I know you usually have to, to use the back door to escape.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  I do.

• 22:49Speaker 00

  After the show because, you know, there's throngs of women who are trying to get at you.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  I mean, to be honest, at this point, I can still outrun most of them, but you know, it's getting harder.

• 23:03Speaker 00

  It's getting harder and harder every year.

• 23:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 23:07Speaker 00

  So, you know, her uncle confesses to lying. Cheyenne told her uncle that they fought over cocaine before she went to use the bathroom. When she returned, Brittany was dead on the bed with marks on her neck.

• 23:22Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 23:23Speaker 00

  She said, one of the men threatened her, meaning Cheyenne with a gun and demanded that she help dispose of the body.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  I mean, this is a big turn of events, right? I mean, this story has totally flipped from what it originally was.

• 23:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, I would say it's it's pretty much done a 180.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:44Speaker 00

  Right?

• 23:45Speaker 01

  It really has.

• 23:46Speaker 00

  From, okay, we parted ways, I went to go visit my uncle to now we're partying with these men, using drugs, there's cocaine. All of a sudden, I come back from the bathroom and Brittany is dead. So.

• 24:03Speaker 01

  I mean, how long were you in the bathroom?

• 24:06Speaker 00

  Well, and and also, I think if you're you're police, you were already suspicious because you're starting to figure out that, you know, Cheyenne's alibi is not holding up. Now, with the changing of the stories, I mean, she's got to be right there as as prime suspect number one, or at least very involved in in whatever happened. And let's not forget, she's also saying that one of these men threatened her with a gun and said, hey, you got to help dispose of this body. Police thoroughly investigated this story, and they found no proof that any of this ever happened.

• 24:49Speaker 00

  Police re-interviewed Cheyenne on May 3, 2015. At this time, she was in jail for shoplifting charges. According to the CBC, she was caught shoplifting and threatened a stores' loss prevention officer with an allegedly HIV-contaminated needle.

• 25:08Speaker 01

  Okay, you you grab me, I'm going to stab you with this needle, buddy, and it's got stuff on it.

• 25:14Speaker 00

  So, you know, first of all, if you're kind of on police radar

• 25:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:21Speaker 00

  for your best friend's murder, do you then go shoplifting?

• 25:28Speaker 01

  I would say no, but if you have a problem, and it sounds like maybe she might have had a drug problem.

• 25:34Speaker 00

  Could have been.

• 25:35Speaker 01

  The way you get the money for to buy those drugs is to go shoplift the stuff and then turn around and sell it to make yourself some money.

• 25:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, some people, yeah, a lot of people do that. Cheyenne, though, she wasn't willing to talk about Brittany's death. Police still considered her a prime suspect, but as we've seen so many times, there just wasn't enough evidence for an arrest warrant. And again, I think that has to be very frustrating for police. Obviously, it's frustrating for family members of of a lot of victims, too. When you think there isn't kind of a, an absolute number one suspect.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:17Speaker 00

  And you think, oh, this person obviously had to have had something to do with it, but police can't charge them with anything.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  No, I mean, at this point, she's just said, Brittany was fine. I went to the bathroom, came back out, and one of these guys strangled her, left her dead on the bed.

• 26:36Speaker 00

  And then forced me to help dispose of the body.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:40Speaker 00

  I mean, I would think at the very least, you could do something with tampering of evidence or, you know, something misuse of a corpse or something like that, but I don't think that's what they're looking for here. They think she played a much bigger role.

• 26:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:57Speaker 00

  So they're they're wanting to go after her for for murder is is what I get from it. So as the weeks passed, Brittany's family was becoming frustrated. Like I said, it's it's natural.

• 27:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:11Speaker 00

  Right with how the investigation was progressing. And they were worried that the case would go cold. And I think frustration is one thing. I think a lot of victims, family members, you know, experienced that. But this other idea is something we probably don't talk about enough, and that's that they're not going to solve this. The case is going to go cold, and we're still going to be wondering 20, 30, 40 years later.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, who who did it? Was it? You know Cheyenne, or was it one of these guys, or you know, who?

• 27:48Speaker 00

  But that's gotta be a real fear.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:50Speaker 00

  Because who wants to spend the next thirty, forty years wondering about that every day? Frustrated that you don't have the answers. All of that is, is gotta be tough.

• 28:03Speaker 01

  Nobody wants that.

• 28:05Speaker 00

  Unexpectedly, they received a call from Cheyenne's aunt, who said Cheyenne returned home in a panic. Shortly after Brittany's estimated time of death, she was crying and said she strangled Brittany.

• 28:19Speaker 01

  There's a different side of the story now.

• 28:23Speaker 00

  Well, but it's one I think police were leaning towards. Now, maybe they didn't know exactly how it happened, but I think they believed that her story was BS. So they, they knew something was not correct. Brittany's family contacted police who contacted the aunt, and she gave them the same version of events.

• 28:46Speaker 01

  So, you know, here's a member of Cheyenne's family, basically turning in Cheyenne. I mean, good for her, right? Because she's doing the right thing.

• 28:58Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, you would hope that everyone would do that.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:02Speaker 00

  But we know they don't.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  No.

• 29:04Speaker 00

  There are some family members, there are some friends, who will cover, even when somebody gets murdered.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 29:12Speaker 00

  Now, I think for most people, most people listening, most people watching would say, oh, I don't think I could live with that.

• 29:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:21Speaker 00

  Type of information. That's a lot to put on somebody.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah.

• 29:27Speaker 00

  But you have to weigh that with turning your family member in.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  I mean, you turned me in for not paying for a Big Mac once, so.

• 29:35Speaker 00

  Oh, I would turn you in for jaywalking. If I thought it would amount to anything.

• 29:41Speaker 01

  If it meant that I had to get that ankle bracelet back on.

• 29:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:44Speaker 01

  Monitor system.

• 29:45Speaker 00

  So investigators did follow up interviews with Cheyenne, obviously, how could they they not after this information, but she continued to deny knowing anything about Brittany's death and there still was not enough evidence to arrest her. On September 10, 2015, Cheyenne posted a comment on Brittany's Facebook, writing, I miss you so much. You came and visited me in my dream last night. Miss you so much. You were way too young to go. Rest in paradise, my angel.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  You know, if she didn't do anything, that's really sweet and touching.

• 30:27Speaker 00

  It's something you would expect from a best friend.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 30:31Speaker 00

  Right? You know, anniversaries, birthdays, the anniversary of the death, things like that. You would expect people to come out and make those type of posts.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:45Speaker 00

  Now, if it turns out that she had something to do with it, then what is it?

• 30:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. Somebody feeling maybe guilty, maybe it's somebody that's just putting some fluff out there to make her look better.

• 31:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, maybe misdirect the police or make them not look as closely at her. In 2017, almost two years after Brittany was killed, investigators had an aha moment. According to prosecutor Robin Ritter, they circled back to the selfie Brittany posted shortly before she died. In the photo, Cheyenne was wearing a black braided belt that looked just like the one found at the crime scene, which was determined to be the murder weapon. A new round of testing confirmed the unknown DNA profile on the belt belonged to Cheyenne.

• 31:43Speaker 01

  Wow. I mean, that's what they needed right there.

• 31:46Speaker 00

  Yeah. And, you know, you could make the argument, oh, why did it take them so long to figure that out? But there's a lot of stuff going on in an investigation.

• 31:56Speaker 01

  And like you've mentioned in the past, each year, DNA testing and all that gets better and better and better. So in two years, I'm sure there was some development there, too.

• 32:08Speaker 00

  It does, but I think if they had thought it was Cheyenne's back then, they probably could have matched it to her.

• 32:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:15Speaker 00

  She just wasn't in the database.

• 32:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 32:17Speaker 00

  So that's why they didn't get a match first time around. On March 7, 2017, Cheyenne was arrested and charged with second degree murder and causing indignity to a body.

• 32:29Speaker 01

  There's a charge that you were looking for.

• 32:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I, I don't know that I've heard that one very often. Cheyenne was finally willing to talk about what happened on March 24, 2015. She admitted she and Brittany went to a house party and used drugs and alcohol. They were both heavily under the influence. And her last memory was from about 4:30 a.m. after they went to McDonald's. At one point, they argued, but she couldn't remember why.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 33:01Speaker 00

  And I, I could, I could understand this, you know, if you've had a lot to drink, throw in some drugs in there as well. Okay, things might be a little fuzzy. Now, we already know she's a liar. She's lied multiple times. But she could be telling the truth about that, that things are a little hazy.

• 33:24Speaker 01

  That happens when you party.

• 33:26Speaker 00

  Too hard.

• 33:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:27Speaker 00

  She did say she blacked out at some point and was unable to recall what exactly happened, but she woke up hours later and knew something terrible had happened. According to prosecutor Robin Ritter, Cheyenne didn't offer a reason as to why she killed Brittany. And this kind of goes back to what I said earlier. You know, they've been friends since like the ninth grade or something.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:53Speaker 00

  They're not in a relationship. What is the motive?

• 33:58Speaker 00

  But as you and I talk about often, sometimes there, there really isn't a motive. If you have kind of a snap type moment.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, yep.

• 34:10Speaker 00

  It's not like something was planned out. Drugs, alcohol, words are exchanged, people get heated. And the next thing you know, something really bad happens. Well, there, there really wasn't a motive for it. It was a heat of the moment type of thing where somebody got mad and killed somebody else.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, it went too far.

• 34:35Speaker 00

  But those, I think, can be tougher to solve because, you know, there is no motive.

• 34:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, sometimes it could be like a jealousy thing like, I can't believe that these people were giving you more attention at the party than me and.

• 34:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, or I liked this guy or, you know, what, whatever it is. Prosecutors couldn't establish criminal intent, but they did prove reduced intent. It's not something I've really heard of.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  Me neither.

• 35:03Speaker 00

  Either. The charges against Cheyenne were reduced from second degree murder to manslaughter.

• 35:10Speaker 01

  Okay, so they really dropped those charges down.

• 35:12Speaker 00

  They did. Now, I understand why first degree murder would be hard.

• 35:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 35:17Speaker 00

  Right? In a snap situation, we just said that there's no motive, but there's not, there's really no intent.

• 35:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:26Speaker 00

  There's no planning, there's nothing like that. So I could see it being dropped. Now, being dropped all the way to manslaughter is quite a bit.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  It is.

• 35:38Speaker 00

  On January 15th, 2018, Cheyenne pleaded guilty to manslaughter and was sentenced to seven years in prison.

• 35:46Speaker 01

  Pretty light, but it is manslaughter, so.

• 35:48Speaker 00

  But seven years is still very light.

• 35:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:52Speaker 00

  You know.

• 35:55Speaker 00

  There are people, now we are talking about Canada.

• 35:57Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 35:58Speaker 00

  So it's hard for me to, you know, compare that to the US, but you know, here you would get more for armed robbery or burglary.

• 36:09Speaker 01

  Some drug charges.

• 36:10Speaker 00

  And some drug charges.

• 36:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:12Speaker 00

  So I get it manslaughter is a much lesser criminal offense than first degree murder, but still to kill someone and only get seven years. Man, if I'm a family member, I'm, I'm upset.

• 36:28Speaker 01

  I would be.

• 36:29Speaker 00

  I'm not happy.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  Yep, I would be very upset.

• 36:32Speaker 00

  Not happy with that, that sentence at all. Cheyenne's lawyer Lisa Watson argued she lacked intent for murder because she was drunk and hot and didn't remember strangling Brittany.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  Well, she says she doesn't remember.

• 36:47Speaker 00

  True, very true. While Cheyenne accepted responsibility for Brittany's death, through her lawyer, she maintained that she didn't remember killing her. Attorney Lisa Watson told the court per CBC, she knows the family would like an explanation, a reason, but unfortunately she can't provide that.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  Let's remember she didn't, she didn't accept responsibility initially.

• 37:13Speaker 00

  That's true, she lied.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  Finally accepted responsibility, but.

• 37:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, she lied in the beginning.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:17Speaker 00

  Ultimately accepted responsibility, but still says can't really give an explanation because I don't know exactly what happened. Now, to your point, that could be true.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  Right.

• 37:30Speaker 00

  Because of the, the drugs and alcohol, or that could be a way to maybe wriggle out of some of the, the more serious charges. I don't know.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe she knew how to play the system a little bit.

• 37:45Speaker 00

  Could be. Cheyenne also gave the following statement to her lawyer. She said, I will never forgive myself. Nothing I say or do will ever bring her back. I'm very, very sorry. It shouldn't have ever happened.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, look, I mean, if she really felt that way, then yeah, it's, there's absolutely nothing you can do and you will absolutely not forgive yourself and you will think about this for the rest of your life, you know?

• 38:14Speaker 00

  Well, and I think we all hope that somebody like that would. She took another person's life.

• 38:19Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 38:20Speaker 00

  Now, again, I'm somewhat dubious of what people say in court because sometimes I think it is heartfelt. It's true. Other times I think people are just saying what they know. The court wants to hear because it's in their best interest to say this or that. We don't know, right? At the end of the day, Cheyenne is really the only person who truly knows.

• 38:48Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 38:48Speaker 00

  How all of this went down and what state of mind she was in when she did it. Either she remembers it all exactly, but has played it off as though she doesn't, or she really doesn't know.

• 39:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, at one point, there was a conversation that it might've been over the cocaine. And I think, how terrible is that for anybody to lose their life?

• 39:13Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  But to lose it over because, you know.

• 39:16Speaker 00

  Of something to do with cocaine.

• 39:18Speaker 01

  You're hitting an extra line more than I am, or whatever it is.

• 39:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't know how cocaine works. Apparently you do. You must have a lot of experience with it. I don't know. I've seen movies.

• 39:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:31Speaker 00

  I know how it works. But the lesser charges angered Brittany's family. Her stepmother, Vicky Wickenhauser, told reporters after sentencing, she was a wonderful person whose life was cut short and it's not fair. It's just not fair.

• 39:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, we echo that, right? I mean, we just said the same thing.

• 39:49Speaker 00

  I know for a fact, if I was a member of the family, I would feel the exact same way. You know, my loved one is gone forever and the person who took her life got seven years. And let's face it, probably won't even do the seven years, right?

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Would not.

• 40:06Speaker 00

  We've done a lot of cases in Canada. And even here in the US, most people don't do their full sentence. Brittany's aunt Jennifer said in her victim impact statement, most days, we can't stop thinking about Brittany. What happened that night, what she must have felt fighting for her life. And again, you know, if you're the family, I don't think, okay, was justice served in some capacity? It was because the, the person who did this is being held accountable.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 40:41Speaker 00

  But not accountable to the degree that you would probably like.

• 40:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 40:45Speaker 00

  They're going to get out much earlier than, than you would like for them to, and the family still doesn't have all the answers that they would like to have.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  No, there's a big piece missing.

• 40:57Speaker 00

  Yeah. During her time in prison, Cheyenne received 15 serious institutional charges.

• 41:05Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 41:06Speaker 00

  Including assaulting a corrections officer.

• 41:09Speaker 01

  Not good.

• 41:10Speaker 00

  She racked up 44 minor charges for drugs, diverting medication, threatening staff, and disobeying authority.

• 41:19Speaker 01

  So not a ideal inmate.

• 41:22Speaker 00

  No, not at all. No, I'm sure a lot of inmates rack up charges.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 41:29Speaker 00

  But Cheyenne was granted day parole in June 2020, but it was revoked four months later when she overdosed, used a laptop without approval, and was quote, generally disrespectful.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  Well, it sounds like, uh, yeah, pull her back in. Don't let her, you know, be out during the day if she's being disrespectful, overdosing, and, uh, not, you know, following the, the rules.

• 41:56Speaker 00

  Boy, talked about being very upset if I'm a family member. I am going to be livid if I find out that two years after the conviction, this person is out on day parole.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:09Speaker 00

  You know how I feel about day parole?

• 42:11Speaker 01

  I know.

• 42:11Speaker 00

  I've talked about it before. I, I don't get it. I understand the idea of rehabilitation. I understand the idea of trying to acclimate this person back into the world.

• 42:27Speaker 00

  I really don't want killers, though, shopping at the same grocery store as I do, who then have to later report back to prison. I just, I don't like that idea. I really don't.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  Man, I just don't think she deserved the right to be out after racking up all the violations that she did.

• 42:46Speaker 00

  Well, and I think you have to cup, you have to factor that in as well, right? How do you get day parole when you're so far from a model inmate?

• 42:57Speaker 01

  Be good in here, so I know you can be good out there. If you can't be good in here, how are you gonna be good out there?

• 43:02Speaker 00

  So I'm with you. That doesn't seem to be a good recipe. And obviously, we know it didn't work because the minute she got out, she's using drugs, using a computer, which she apparently wasn't supposed to. In 2021, she completed her first six-week intensive addiction program and went unlawfully at large and was arrested in March 2022.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:31Speaker 00

  Shortly after that, she attacked a correctional officer after being denied a shower.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  Not gonna let me shower? I'll show you. Not gonna let me take a shower? Come here, come here.

• 43:41Speaker 00

  I know people like their showers, but Cheyenne was granted statutory release on March 28, 2024. Most offenders serving fixed-length sentences are given statutory release after serving two-thirds of their sentence. This allows them to finish serving their sentences on conditions as they reintegrate into the community. The parole board set the conditions an offender must follow during their release period.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  See, the problem with something like that is you already have a track record of this individual not really doing well. You know, so maybe just hold her for the whole length of time.

• 44:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, I I guess, but what happens when now you can't hold her past seven years?

• 44:32Speaker 01

  No.

• 44:33Speaker 00

  So eventually she's gonna get out and is anything gonna be any different? I I kinda understand this part. I'm not as upset about it, I guess, as I am about the day parole. That that part really bugs me for some reason. But um, you know, this is basically like parole, kind of, but you have all these conditions. And if you fail to meet them, they're gonna send you back.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  I I just think she has a problem listening to authority. I think she has a problem following, you know, guidelines.

• 45:07Speaker 00

  Well, and she also has a a problem with addiction, I think.

• 45:10Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, I I mean, that's probably the what's driving all this, right?

• 45:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, and that could be the underlying factor that causes many of these other things to happen. But, you know, she's released. Her release was suspended when, just three days later, she got into an emotional state during a conversation with a halfway house staff member and refused to let them into her room during room checks.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  Well, why would you not want somebody in your room to do a room check?

• 45:40Speaker 00

  Probably because you got something in there you don't want them to find.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:44Speaker 00

  After suspension, the board reviews the case to decide whether to cancel an offender's release or allow them to continue living in the community. This time, the board decided Cheyenne could remain on statutory release after she was accepted into a residential treatment facility.

• 46:03Speaker 01

  That's probably where she needed to go from day one.

• 46:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, she did go, remember, and got into

• 46:10Speaker 01

  Trouble?

• 46:11Speaker 00

  Trouble. In May 2024, Cheyenne went to a residential drug treatment center in Calgary. Soon after her arrival, staff found syringes and a pill in her room. She tested positive for amphetamine and the center withdrew support.

• 46:28Speaker 00

  She left the facility and was again unlawfully at large until she was arrested on June 2nd, 2024.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  She's, she's definitely has a problem with drugs, addiction, and um, I don't know. I don't know how she's going to stay out of trouble until she can fight that uh, that monster, and that's a hard monster to fight.

• 46:53Speaker 00

  It is, but I, I have to question the parole board here because they keep making these decisions, and I don't know what they're based on. She seemingly has done nothing to prove that she deserves to be, you know, set free.

• 47:10Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 47:11Speaker 00

  But yet, time and time again, they keep saying, "Well, you know, it's okay, just don't do this." Well, and she goes and does that. It's like, I don't know, it's kind of like telling your kids you're in timeout, but you know, you can sneak a cookie if you want.

• 47:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 47:29Speaker 00

  What?

• 47:30Speaker 01

  What good does that even do, put them in timeout?

• 47:32Speaker 00

  I, I, I don't, I don't get it. So apparently she pulled door handles in a parking lot until she was able to get into an occupied vehicle. She stole a key. She was seen laughing in the driver's seat after hitting another vehicle and driving away.

• 47:49Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 47:50Speaker 00

  Well, don't forget, she's kind of hopped up on amphetamine.

• 47:54Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 47:54Speaker 00

  So I, I'm not sure that uh, her thinking is all that clear. She was driving erratically and was in the oncoming traffic lane for several hundred meters, causing other cars to pull off the road. She hit another unoccupied vehicle and tried to steal a van before police were able to arrest her.

• 48:18Speaker 01

  It's causing all kind of havoc.

• 48:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, so she was charged with two counts of robbery and one count each of evading police, resisting arrest, and dangerous driving. The board suspended her statutory release and determined her risk to society can't be managed. So they released her, revoked her statutory release in February 2025. Her risk to society cannot be managed.

• 48:50Speaker 00

  I think that's correct. My problem is it seemed to take them way too long to figure that out.

• 48:55Speaker 01

  That's what I'm thinking. I think you could have figured that out probably after the second release that didn't go well.

• 49:01Speaker 00

  Or maybe even after the first, but it's like they just kept giving her chance after chance. And every time she kept, you know, messing up. According to the board decision, they said, you successfully deceived your case management team. And ultimately, the board into believing you were motivated to attend further treatment to address your substance abuse and trauma. You then breached virtually all of your special conditions within one day of your release. Choosing to immediately acquire and use illicit substances and absconding from the treatment facility where you were ordered by the board to resign. One day.

• 49:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, do I really believe that she was able to pull one over on them?

• 49:50Speaker 00

  I don't, I don't think so either. I think that's some wording they used, maybe to kind of make themselves look a little bit better. I just think they made the wrong decision, flat out.

• 50:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And this is just them kind of CYA.

• 50:04Speaker 00

  I get it. You want to get this person help. I understand that. Because I think you're right. A big part, or maybe even the heart, the root of the problem is her substance abuse issues. Probably leading to a lot of other things, but.

• 50:23Speaker 01

  And it probably started when she was young because, you know, she had the problems with her family, you know, abuse and things like that. So.

• 50:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:31Speaker 01

  There's a root cause there that was probably never addressed that led to the drug addiction and that was never addressed. So.

• 50:37Speaker 00

  And the board did acknowledge that, you know, she was exposed to drugs at a very early age as well as alcohol. And continues to use substances to cope with the abuse she suffered in foster care. But they went on to say she's been able to access cultural programming and an extensive network of community support. So I think they're, they're acknowledging the fact that, yeah, she dealt with a, or is still dealing with a lot of issues from her childhood that were real. They did happen.

• 51:14Speaker 00

  During her post-suspension interview, Cheyenne claims she lapped the treatment facility because it was too strict. I can't handle all this strictness.

• 51:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't like being told what to do.

• 51:26Speaker 00

  Well, who does? But when you kill somebody, it kind of the part of the punishment is being told what to do and what not to do.

• 51:37Speaker 01

  That's exactly right.

• 51:39Speaker 00

  She overdosed more than once and was hospitalized. She stole the vehicles because police refused to come get her when she tried to turn herself in. She gets strange reasoning for a lot of different things.

• 51:52Speaker 01

  She does.

• 51:53Speaker 00

  She really does.

• 51:53Speaker 01

  I don't know if she's in her right state of mind.

• 51:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't either. I don't know how much of it is fueled by the drugs and how much of it is just like an inability to take responsibility for your actions. I think there's, there's a part of that here as well. The board concluded that Cheyenne has a dismal history in terms of your complete unwillingness to abide by institutional rule and the conditions of your release. And that part I would wholeheartedly agree with. I think she got too many chances to prove her that dismal history.

• 52:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:37Speaker 00

  That's the only issue I would take with it. Cheyenne's seven-year sentence ended on April 18, 2025. She has been deemed a high risk to reoffend.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think absolutely she is.

• 52:51Speaker 00

  I don't know how she couldn't be. But again, it's part of my problem with the seven-year sentence. I get it. They have guidelines, probably men and max.

• 53:04Speaker 00

  Sentence, you know, guidelines.

• 53:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:07Speaker 00

  But seven years to me is so light for killing someone that you're kind of, in a way, painted into a corner. Can't hold the person for longer than seven years unless they rack up a bunch of other charges, I guess, in prison.

• 53:25Speaker 01

  But in this, this case here, they let her out after two, basically.

• 53:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, they kept trying.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  Trying to get her, yeah.

• 53:32Speaker 00

  To let her out. And I get it. Canada has a different way of doing things than, than we do here. I'm not saying one is better than the other. What I will say is I think seven years is a little light.

• 53:43Speaker 01

  Yep, I agree with you.

• 53:44Speaker 00

  And, and maybe they gave her more chances than what I would have if I was on a parole board. I think I would have thought after the first, maybe the first, but definitely the second time, that, hey, you don't deserve this early parole because you can't seem to follow the rules. So you go back and just do your whole seven and then after that, we'll see how it goes.

• 54:10Speaker 01

  I just don't feel like they ever addressed the underlying issue of the drugs.

• 54:14Speaker 00

  No, but they did say that she had access to all these community programs and, and things in the facility. At a certain point, Gibbs, if you're a person who's struggling, especially with addiction, even if all the help in the world is there, if you don't want it, or if you decide not to take advantage of the help, well, it's not going to work.

• 54:41Speaker 01

  No, it comes down, do you want this or don't you want this?

• 54:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:45Speaker 01

  I mean, you're gonna have to put the work in. You're gonna have to.

• 54:47Speaker 00

  And you, and you gotta wanna quit.

• 54:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:50Speaker 00

  Some people say they do, but they really don't.

• 54:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. Until that happens, you're probably just gonna be on that, uh, merry-go-round.

• 54:56Speaker 00

  And, and the first time that you're outside and, and you're, uh, in the presence of something, you're, you're, you're not gonna say no to it. Because you haven't made the decision yet that that cannot be a part of your life. So as we wrap this one up, I think there are questions here. You know, we go back to Brittany, Gargol, did she receive justice if the person who caused her death served only seven years for manslaughter?

• 55:32Speaker 00

  I think that's a real question for me, but I, I, I know my answer and I, I would say no. I don't, I don't consider that to be justice.

• 55:42Speaker 01

  I agree with you. I really do.

• 55:44Speaker 00

  You know, I, I think one of the problems in this case was that prosecutors just had a real hard time kind of establishing criminal intent. And then of course you had Cheyenne claiming that she had no memory of killing her, which meant investigators had no motive to go on. And that is the one thing that I, I would, I guess you'd have to say was pretty smart on her part. Right? She didn't come out and admit that I did this, but she kind of skirted it.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:24Speaker 00

  By framing it inside of this kind of drug induced or alcohol induced haze.

• 56:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I blacked out, man. I don't did it. I'm, I guess maybe I did do.

• 56:36Speaker 00

  I must have done it, but I don't remember doing it. So.

• 56:39Speaker 01

  I don't know why I did it.

• 56:40Speaker 00

  How can I, you know, be stuck with first degree or maybe even second degree? So. But, you know, again, of all of it, that's, that's what I have the most problem with. And I'm sure the family does as well.

• 56:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:54Speaker 00

  That would be very frustrating for me to know that this person who killed my loved one, got out in seven years and they did so while in those seven years being given every opportunity to leave the facility and do this and do that. And at no point did they ever toe the line.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 57:16Speaker 00

  They broke the rules at every juncture, but yet they just kept giving her chance after chance.

• 57:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:24Speaker 00

  But that's it for our episode on Brittany Gargol. And that's it for another episode of True Crime All The Time.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:32Speaker 00

  So for Mike.

• 57:33Speaker 01

  And Gabby.

• 57:33Speaker 00

  Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.