Ben Renick

Ben Renick built one of the most respected exotic snake breeding operations in the country, housing more than 3,000 reptiles on his Missouri farm. In June 2017, his wife, Lynlee, called 911 after finding him dead in the snake facility. Because a 600-pound anaconda was missing, some initially wondered if a snake had killed him. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Ben Renick. Investigators quickly determined the truth: Ben had been shot eight times. What followed was a years-long investigation involving affairs, financial problems, a failed poisoning attempt, and a murder-for-hire conspiracy. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetime Visit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation information An Emash Digital production See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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• 1:48Speaker 00

  Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 520 of the True Crime All the Time Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson, and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson-Gibby. How are you?

• 1:58Speaker 01

  I'm doing good. How about you?

• 1:59Speaker 00

  Doing great, man.

• 2:00Speaker 01

  That's good, man. Doing all right, huh?

• 2:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:02Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:03Speaker 00

  I'm here with you. I'm recording. What else could be better?

• 2:08Speaker 01

  Nothing.

• 2:09Speaker 00

  No, actually, a lot of things, but I just said that to, you know, make you feel good.

• 2:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:15Speaker 00

  I don't know why I had to.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  Strip it away, right?

• 2:17Speaker 00

  I don't know why I had to pull the rug out from under you like that.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  We don't know why.

• 2:21Speaker 00

  Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Matt James.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  Hey, Matt.

• 2:25Speaker 00

  Tierney.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Ah, Tierney.

• 2:28Speaker 00

  And you keep wanting to say it as tyranny, like going against the government. Nicole Banning.

• 2:34Speaker 01

  Hey, Banning.

• 2:35Speaker 00

  Amanda Mattingly.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  Ah, Mattingly in the house.

• 2:38Speaker 00

  Kat Johnson jumped out at her highest level.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  I like Kat. Thanks, Kat.

• 2:42Speaker 00

  Michelle Walt-Billing.

• 2:44Speaker 01

  Oh, Walt-Billing. Sounds like a fun game.

• 2:47Speaker 00

  And Kathy B. from Ray, Ohio, jumped out at our highest level.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  Wow, thanks, Kathy.

• 2:54Speaker 00

  And then if we go back into the vault. This week, we selected Linda Fritz.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  I had a good friend named, we'd call him Fritz. Wasn't his real name, but we called him Fritz. Got in a lot of trouble.

• 3:07Speaker 00

  And I'm assuming his first name was not Linda.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  It was not.

• 3:10Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  Well, hey, Linda.

• 3:12Speaker 00

  It's a great story.

• 3:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:14Speaker 00

  It's one of your better ones.

• 3:15Speaker 01

  He got, he was a quick little story. He actually, we were in high school. We were, jumped over the fence, a bunch of us, guys and gals, and went sort of skinny dipping. Some did, some sort of skinny dipped at the community pool. And the police showed up and we all jumped over the fence. And we all got away except for him. And he decided to jump in the police cruiser and take it for a ride around the cul-de-sac.

• 3:40Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:41Speaker 00

  All right.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:42Speaker 00

  Good job, Fritzy.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 3:44Speaker 00

  So we have an episode out right now on Unsolved, where we're talking about Patty Atkins. In 2001, she clocked out of work, looking forward to going on a trip with her boyfriend, who was a married coworker at the same plant where she worked. But she has not been seen or heard from in 25 years.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, might be some foul play there.

• 4:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, definitely. And then on next Thursday's TCAT, we're talking about 16-year-old David Grunewald, who went missing shortly after dropping his girlfriend off in November 2016.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  You know, now I realize why we didn't do the extra episodes on Friday. Because then you would have to say on next Friday. And then that would be confusing with these shows, the movies next Friday.

• 4:31Speaker 00

  The movie?

• 4:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:32Speaker 00

  Friday after next?

• 4:34Speaker 01

  And that one, too.

• 4:36Speaker 00

  But, you know, it's a, it's a very interesting episode in that you have a number of people involved, but seemingly no motive.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I really like that case.

• 4:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it's shocking.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  It is.

• 4:49Speaker 00

  Strange, shocking. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All the Time?

• 4:54Speaker 01

  We are, I am.

• 4:55Speaker 00

  We're talking about, we are, I am. We're talking about Ben Renick. Ben was a well-known snake breeder who was found dead at his reptile farm in 2017. At first, authorities suspected he was killed by one of his massive snakes. But investigators soon realized Ben was murdered.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  And I'm excited about this because as I mentioned on Patreon, I used to be a snake charmer.

• 5:19Speaker 00

  You did. You did. I've had a lot of jobs in my life.

• 5:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:24Speaker 00

  One that I've never had, would never have, wouldn't even think about having, would be handling or breeding snakes of any kind.

• 5:34Speaker 01

  Well, because you do not like snakes.

• 5:35Speaker 00

  I do not.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  You don't even like worms.

• 5:38Speaker 00

  If you want to hear me scream like a 10-year-old girl, put a big snake in my path and you will hear it.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 5:47Speaker 00

  I do not like snakes.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  At least you can say, I don't like snakes. If you put a big snake in my path, I'm going to walk away. Cool.

• 5:54Speaker 00

  No.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  I'm going to walk away.

• 5:55Speaker 00

  No, I might scream like a 10-year-old girl.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 5:59Speaker 00

  Benjamin Renick was born on August 4, 1987, in St. Louis, Missouri. He and his brother Sam grew up on their family farm near the city of New Florence, Missouri. They spent their days riding ATVs or exploring the woods. And this was how Ben became fascinated by snakes. He got his first snake at a young age, and raising snakes became his passion. I get it. A lot of people like snakes. They have snakes as pets.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:28Speaker 00

  I'm just not one of those individuals. In 2010, Ben started Renick Reptiles, Inc. He bred and raised snakes in a facility on the farm. And he became a well-known figure in the exotic reptile community. Ben sold snakes to buyers all over the world, as far away as the UK and Japan. How do you ship a snake from Missouri to Japan?

• 6:55Speaker 01

  Carefully.

• 6:56Speaker 00

  That's a good answer.

• 6:59Speaker 00

  In 2012, Ben inherited his family's farm after his father Frank ended his life. Frank shot himself after being implicated in a multimillion-dollar Ponzi scheme involving fraudulent stock certificates. Sadly, Ben was the one who found his father's body.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  Oh, man. Oh, it'd be rough to find, right? Your dad like that. And, but it also sounds like his dad was involved in something pretty complex.

• 7:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, and maybe also rough to find out that if you didn't know, your dad was involved in this massive criminal undertaking.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:39Speaker 00

  In 2011, a year before his father died, Ben reconnected with his future wife, Lindley, whom he met as a teenager. Ben was performing in a metal band at the time, according to Dateline. Lindley was a single mother to a son from a prior relationship, and Ben became a second father to her child. Within a year of dating, Ben and Lindley moved in together. So, I mean, you know, there are some similarities between, I think, you and Ben. You said it yourself, right? You were a snake charmer. You did at one point kind of front a metal band.

• 8:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it didn't take off.

• 8:22Speaker 00

  Well, that's because you named it after birth, which seemed very strange and off-putting to many people.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  But with metal bands, you want that. You know, you want something like.

• 8:33Speaker 00

  You want something edgy, but maybe a little less creepy? I don't know.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:40Speaker 00

  So the two had a small wedding. In 2014, they had a child together. The family continued living on the farm, and Lindley helped Ben raise snakes at the facility on the property. At the height of the business, they had over 3,000 snakes, including species like the anaconda.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a lot of snakes.

• 9:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm kind of like getting the chills right now thinking about it. Now, you know, little garden snakes, I still don't like them.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:10Speaker 00

  But I'm not going to be overly scared. I know they can't really hurt you. I don't want to be around an anaconda. Because I have seen that movie, Anaconda.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  Because you ain't got no anaconda.

• 9:25Speaker 00

  No, I got.

• 9:27Speaker 00

  I think you're forgetting how that song goes.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Maybe I am.

• 9:32Speaker 00

  But I just, you know, rattlers, uh, king cobras, anacondas, any, anything that can kill you.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  Viper.

• 9:41Speaker 00

  Vipers, I'm, I'm, I'm not into.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  You probably wouldn't do good if you were one of those passengers on a snakes on the plane.

• 9:48Speaker 00

  No, no, I would like to hang out with Samuel L. Jackson, though.

• 9:51Speaker 01

  But in a different way.

• 9:53Speaker 00

  In a different way. Ben attended reptile conventions around the country. According to 48 Hours, he was a rock star in the reptile world. He was known for breeding reticulated pythons, the world's longest snake in captivity.

• 10:09Speaker 01

  Wow. Nice.

• 10:12Speaker 00

  He's a rock, he was a rock star in the reptile world.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  Pretty cool.

• 10:17Speaker 00

  It is.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  I mean, when you think about, you know, something very specific like that, you know? I mean, it's kind of like how you were a rock star in your own world before you went into podcasting. You know, I don't want to mention the, the subject matter.

• 10:35Speaker 00

  It'd be better if you didn't.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I mean, we're well known.

• 10:39Speaker 00

  Ben's brother Sam also lived on the farm with his family. Sam recalled the 48 Hours, that they raised their kids together and enjoyed fishing together on the weekends. In 2016, Ben and Lindley opened a day spa in Columbus, which had been a long time dream of Lindley's. She had previously worked as a massage therapist. Around that time, Ben realized that if he sold a portion of his business, he could make a substantial amount of money. According to his brother Sam, he planned to sell the majority of his ball python collection for about 1.2 million dollars.

• 11:20Speaker 01

  Wow, that's nice.

• 11:22Speaker 00

  Apparently there's, uh, some money in snakes.

• 11:24Speaker 01

  So maybe you change your attitude a little bit, maybe?

• 11:27Speaker 00

  No.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  No, okay.

• 11:28Speaker 00

  No. By 2017, the deal was arranged and Ben and Lindley had just received their first payment of $200,000 at the time of Ben's death. On June 8th, 2017, Lindley Renick called 911. After finding her husband lying in a pool of blood in the snake facility, she called Sam after calling 911 and he rushed over to the facility. Sam was the one who told first responders, Ben may have been killed by a snake. At the time Ben's body was discovered, his 600 pound anaconda had escaped its cage and was nowhere to be found.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  600 pounds.

• 12:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 12:16Speaker 00

  Do you see why I do not want to mess around with snakes?

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Don't want to tango with that.

• 12:21Speaker 00

  600 pound snake?

• 12:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:24Speaker 00

  I don't think Ice Cube and them had to deal with that.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  I don't think so either.

• 12:30Speaker 00

  600 pounds. I actually thought it was a typo at first.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 12:36Speaker 00

  Sam recalled the Dateline, his skull was crushed, so I didn't know what to think. My first thought was, of course, the snakes and I get that.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  Makes sense, right?

• 12:47Speaker 00

  It does. I mean, anacondas are the ones that kind of crush you to death, right?

• 12:53Speaker 01

  They like to squeeze.

• 12:54Speaker 00

  I don't know a ton about snakes, but I'm, I'm pretty sure about that one. And if you have a 600 pound anaconda who is loose, I don't think it's a far reach to think that he might have been killed by this snake.

• 13:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:11Speaker 00

  Coroner Dave Colbert arrived and found shell casings at the scene. Authorities soon confirmed Ben wasn't killed by a snake. He had been shot eight times, once at close range. So my first thought is, I don't see how his killer thought he was going to be mistaken for being killed by a snake. I mean, you leave shell casings behind and you shoot someone eight times. It's not going to be that hard to figure out.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  Right. That's not my first question. My first question is, where the hell's the snake?

• 13:50Speaker 00

  Well, that's true. Yeah. Cause we haven't figured that part out yet. And I'm sure they were on the lookout for it.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  I, I, I probably like every time you heard something, you turned your head real quick. Was that the snake?

• 14:02Speaker 00

  My thought is it's going to be a little bit of a different crime scene for some of these investigators than what they're used to. They're used to seeing dead bodies.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 14:12Speaker 00

  And they're used to working murders and all that. I doubt many of them are used to having to worry about a, a 600 pound snake who could be around the corner at this crime scene. I mean, you want to talk about keeping your head on a swivel.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 14:30Speaker 00

  I mean, I wouldn't have to because I'm sitting in the car.

• 14:32Speaker 01

  You're not coming in.

• 14:33Speaker 00

  I'm actually not even leaving the station. You just call me and I'll talk to you over the radio. Cause I would be scared that this 600 pound snake might crush the car. I, I don't know what kind of snake we're talking about here.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  It'd probably find you. It will, will sense the fear.

• 14:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  And your sweat.

• 14:53Speaker 00

  It'll crawl up through some vital, uh, hole in the car somehow.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:59Speaker 00

  And get me. One early theory was that Ben's murder was a robbery gone wrong. Perhaps someone knew the value of the snakes and wanted to take them. However, all the snakes were eventually accounted for. And obviously there was a lot of money in these snakes, right? We just said a portion of the python collection was going to go for like 1.2 million dollars. I just think if you're going to steal something, maybe you pick something that can't eat you or kill you.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  Well, that's a good point.

• 15:36Speaker 00

  You know, maybe diamonds or cash or a bank or something like that.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  But if you're in that industry and you're comfortable with that and you know where the value is at, you could potentially come in there and kind of cherry pick what you want.

• 15:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  But nobody did.

• 15:53Speaker 00

  If you're a snake wrangler, then I guess it wouldn't be that big a deal to you. Sam and Lindley were brought in for questioning on the day of the murder. It was said that they were both cooperative. Both of them tested negative for gunshot residue. In his interview, Sam said he could never imagine Lindley would want to harm her husband. During her interview, she told investigators she spent the day at her spa. She got a call that the kids hadn't been picked up from school and she couldn't get ahold of him. She picked up the kids and then found Ben's body when she got home. Police asked her if Ben was possibly killed by a business rival, a disgruntled customer or a resentful family member.

• 16:39Speaker 00

  Lindley suggested the police look at his brother Sam.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  Wow. Quickly to call out Sam.

• 16:46Speaker 00

  Well, and it's interesting because Sam says, oh, there's no way Lindley would have killed Ben, but she's the exact opposite. She kind of threw him under the bus right away.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:59Speaker 00

  According to Lindley, Sam and Ben were in a feud over the family farm. Lindley and Ben owned the farm, but Sam wanted half. Sam told Dateline that he and Ben planned to divide the property. Sam was ruled out as a suspect when his alibi was verified. He also agreed to a polygraph and passed.

• 17:21Speaker 01

  I guess it made it a little, uh, awkward moving forward from that point when those two had to get together for anything.

• 17:28Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, once he finds out that she kind of directed the police his way, but you know, he seemed very cooperative, agreed to a polygraph, passed that. They also verified his alibi. You know, I have a closet full of clothes, but I tend to go back to the same things. The ones I know that feel the best, fit the best. And right now I keep going back to Quince. I love everything I've gotten from Quince, but what I continually go for is their activewear flow net line. Quince focuses on high quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere,

• 18:10Speaker 00

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• 18:55Speaker 00

  or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was true crime all the time. It's the best way to support the show. Investigators looked into Lindley's social media activity and learned that there were problems in the marriage. Facebook messages between Ben and Lindley revealed that Ben knew the spa was losing money and Lindley had lied to him about it. Ben told Lindley she was behind on loan, rent and staff payments. Messages from the spring of 2017 also showed

• 19:36Speaker 00

  that Ben was suspicious Lindley was having an affair.

• 19:41Speaker 01

  What's that old saying? You point a finger at me, there's three more pointing back at you?

• 19:46Speaker 00

  I have never heard that in my life. That could be a saying, I've just never heard it.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  Or I just made it up right there. Now I am the owner of that saying, please use it as much as you want out there.

• 19:57Speaker 00

  But pay me my royalties. But here's the thing that really kind of jumped out at me and I guess I questioned is these two are married. Why are they Facebook messaging each other? You know, my wife and I, we just talk to each other or she might call me on the phone sometimes, even when we're in the house. She just doesn't want to walk downstairs. We don't message each other on Facebook back and forth. That seems so strange.

• 20:26Speaker 01

  I don't even know what you would do if you did, because I have text you and I could text you three sentences and your reply will be back. Your reply back to me at best will be three words.

• 20:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's usually going to be okay. Yeah. Or sure.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  You are not.

• 20:45Speaker 00

  Or no, most likely no.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, you are not a big conversationist. Not even a mild conversationist.

• 20:53Speaker 00

  Which is strange because I do talk for a living.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  You do. I know.

• 20:58Speaker 00

  But it's, it's the whole sending Facebook messages when you're married and you live in the same house.

• 21:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, maybe he's out, you know, wrangling a snake and she's at the, you know, parlor, you know, rubbing somebody down and be like, hey, what do we want for dinner tonight? By the way.

• 21:18Speaker 00

  I think you're having an affair. I mean, it just seems like things that would be best said face to face, I guess. Yeah, I don't know.

• 21:27Speaker 01

  Now, unless the police are saying they saw messages on her Facebook account that made them believe she might be having an affair.

• 21:36Speaker 00

  The research said Facebook messages between Ben and Lindley. So.

• 21:42Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 21:44Speaker 00

  I guess if you did want to message, why not just send a text? Why do it through Facebook? And maybe a lot of people listening are saying, what are you talking about? Tons of people do that. And maybe they do. That's just not me.

• 21:56Speaker 01

  Let's start messaging you on WhatsApp. You have WhatsApp?

• 22:00Speaker 00

  Who's on first?

• 22:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:03Speaker 00

  No, I don't have that. I don't have a lot of apps, especially when it comes to social media. And if I do have them, they're not on my phone. They're only on my iPad for the podcast. So I'm not sitting and looking at them all the time. But this is a big deal, right? Investigators are kind of getting the idea that this marriage might not be solid. Might have some problems.

• 22:30Speaker 01

  Not looking good.

• 22:31Speaker 00

  And there's also a thought here that Lindley is having money problems. Hours before he was killed, Ben sent Lindley a message that said, no more lying, no more keeping things from me, no more not paying people and thinking it's okay to pay later.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, it sounds like he was a good business person. Like he understood how business worked, how, you know, he was successful in running his business. And it sounds like she didn't have that skillset that he had.

• 23:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, maybe she didn't have the same business acumen.

• 23:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 23:09Speaker 00

  11 days after the murder, police questioned Lindley again, and they just flat out asked her if she was seeing someone else. To their surprise, she was honest and admitted to having an affair.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  Oh, there it is.

• 23:24Speaker 00

  Oh, that is your, that's your whole, your thought. Oh, there it is. So she said that she had an affair with a man named Eric Brimmer, who was cleared once his alibi was verified. And that's, you know, if you're the guy having the affair, well, shame on you. You shouldn't be having an affair with a married woman. There's, there's a husband somewhere else. You're, you're hurting. But, you know, she's thrusting him now into this murder investigation because would he potentially have a reason to kill Ben?

• 24:04Speaker 01

  I think there's some thrusting going on.

• 24:06Speaker 00

  And nobody wants to be thrusted like that. Detectives talked to spa manager Ashley Shaw, who said that Lindley actually had a couple of affairs.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 24:19Speaker 00

  Investigators learned that she was also seeing a man named Brandon Blackwell, who she met on a dating website. Police interviewed Blackwell, who confirmed the affair and told an investigator he was in love with Lindley. So, I mean, undoubtedly she wasn't being faithful. She wasn't just being unfaithful. She was cheating on Ben with a number of men.

• 24:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, she was being unfaithful to him and her other lovers.

• 24:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't know if that's possible, but I kind of get your thought there.

• 24:54Speaker 01

  But here we go, right? You know, here's a couple that if you don't know any better, it looks, they look really good, right?

• 25:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, from the outside.

• 25:02Speaker 01

  They have this really successful business. They're going to make a substantial amount of money selling off part of it. And, uh, you know, they got this new business in Columbus going with the spa. Everything's good.

• 25:15Speaker 00

  And I'm sure if you probably, if they were people who put stuff on Facebook and Instagram, if you just looked at those things, you'd probably think like, this is the couple that has it going on. But behind the scenes, things are not as good as, as they might appear. And unfortunately, I think that's true with quite a few marriages. Police learned that Lindley was the sole beneficiary of Ben's $1 million life insurance policy. Witnesses reported that she called the insurance company days after Ben died to find out when she could get the money.

• 25:54Speaker 01

  You know, this always drives me crazy. I mean, your loved one just died. Are you hurting up for money that bad that you have to make that call? And if you did do this,

• 26:08Speaker 01

  slow play this thing.

• 26:09Speaker 00

  You're not making yourself look good, right? Yeah, I'm kind of with you. I think she was hurting for money, but my thought is always you would be so grief stricken that although that's a lot of money, it would, wouldn't be the first thing on most people's minds.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  I wouldn't think so.

• 26:27Speaker 00

  It's you're grieving for your, your husband. You've got to figure out funeral arrangements and, and just all of this stuff. Not to mention the fact you're being interviewed by police at the same time. So, yeah, to be calling within a couple of days is, is a little strange. In total, investigators interviewed Lindley six times. On October 5th, 2017, she took a polygraph and was informed she had failed. By this time, investigators knew that on the day of the murder, Lindley texted and called her ex-boyfriend, Michael Humphrey,

• 27:07Speaker 00

  numerous times. Michael was recently out of prison after serving time for drug possession charges.

• 27:14Speaker 01

  Number, guy number three.

• 27:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. Now maybe he's back in the mix. We don't know. At one point in the interview, Lindley seemed pretty close to breaking, but she continued to deny any involvement in her husband's murder. And with no witnesses and no murder weapon, she was released without being arrested. After the murder, Ben's snakes were dispersed and sold to reptile experts and enthusiasts.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  Sure, a good penny was made.

• 27:46Speaker 00

  I guarantee it. Weeks after her husband's death, Lindley sold the farm, closed her spa and left town.

• 27:55Speaker 01

  Not months, weeks.

• 27:58Speaker 00

  Not, yeah, not months, not a year later, weeks after her husband's murder.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 28:05Speaker 00

  And it was said that Ben's family tried to be understanding, but when she refused to talk to them or take Ben's belongings, they sensed something was wrong. And you kind of said it earlier, Gibbs, right? Slow play it. If you're guilty, if she's involved in this thing, she is doing herself no favors whatsoever by the way she's acting. Why would you want to alienate his family? Why would you want to kind of get out of Dodge so quickly? It all just makes you look like you're trying to hide something.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  Very guilty.

• 28:45Speaker 00

  Lindley and Brandon Blackwell continued their relationship. A year after Ben was killed, Lindley was pregnant with Brandon's child.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  Oh, that didn't take long.

• 28:55Speaker 00

  No, it took about a year.

• 28:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. Only took, only took a few months to get pregnant.

• 29:00Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, I don't know. I don't know at what point she became pregnant.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:05Speaker 00

  There was nothing in the research about the exact day and time of the conception.

• 29:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm just doing the simple math. I'm going back nine months from a year, you know?

• 29:14Speaker 00

  It just said she was pregnant. We don't know how far along she was.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 29:18Speaker 00

  By then, though, the relationship had deteriorated. Brandon was arrested for assault and Lindley was granted a protective. Brandon violated the terms of the order and was jailed for felony stalking. There is a lot going on here, dude. And let's be honest, Lindley is at the heart of everything. Now, she's the victim technically here in this part. She had to get a protective order against this guy. He was ultimately sent to jail for felony stalking. But investigators hope that after the breakup, Brandon would be willing to talk to them.

• 30:00Speaker 01

  Well, you know, a scorned lover.

• 30:03Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. And if you think somebody is involved at the moment that the relationship changes or ends, that might be the time that they're willing to turn on their partner. On January 14th, 2020, Brandon was ready for an interview with the police. It had been by this time over two years since Ben was murdered. Brandon made a surprising claim and it was that Lindley planned the murder. Lindley had confided in him that Ben wanted a divorce. She didn't want to lose custody of their kids. So she convinced her ex-boyfriend, Michael Humphrey, to help kill Ben.

• 30:48Speaker 00

  She wanted Michael to kill him, but he wasn't comfortable doing it. So Lindley was the one who actually pulled the trigger.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  Wow. The truth is coming out.

• 30:59Speaker 00

  And it's pretty cold-blooded.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  It is.

• 31:02Speaker 00

  Did you get the reference there?

• 31:03Speaker 01

  I did. Cold-blooded?

• 31:05Speaker 00

  Yeah. What does it mean?

• 31:07Speaker 01

  Snakes are cold-blooded.

• 31:08Speaker 00

  Okay. I just wanted to make sure you got it.

• 31:13Speaker 01

  I did take a special reptile course at Mensa.

• 31:17Speaker 00

  So they offer courses now, do they?

• 31:18Speaker 01

  Well, only two. They're elite members.

• 31:21Speaker 00

  I don't know what's funnier, the fact that you say you're in Mensa or that you're an elite member of Mensa?

• 31:29Speaker 01

  It's for those people who have that extra, uh, uh, higher, um, number.

• 31:34Speaker 00

  Extra higher number?

• 31:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, we call it the, uh, E H N. Yeah.

• 31:40Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  If you have it and if you're out there, you know who you are. Yeah. You've received the, um, green, it's like a forest green card. We go with that because it's, uh, earthy.

• 31:54Speaker 00

  Also funny, the fact that you think extra higher number is grammatically correct.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  It's a play on number, on, on, on words that we do because if you, if you're not in the know.

• 32:09Speaker 00

  It's like a hole that you're just constantly digging.

• 32:14Speaker 01

  Wait, did you hear the doorbell? Doorbell's ringing. I'm gonna go check it. I'll be back.

• 32:17Speaker 00

  I didn't hear it. Brandon also knew that before the shooting, Lindley tried to kill Ben by drugging his protein shake. He implicated spa manager Ashley Shaw in this scheme. Lynn reached out to Michael Humphrey after this failed. Ashley was brought in for an interview and was quick to turn on her former boss once she was offered immunity in exchange for her testimony. According to Ashley, Lindley claimed Ben was abusing her and asked if she could get pills to kill her husband. Ashley obtained Percocet and gave it to Lindley.

• 32:55Speaker 01

  Why are so many people involved in wanting to kill Ben?

• 32:59Speaker 00

  Well, I, I think it's because Lindley's at the heart of it all and she's reaching out. She's talking to a lot of different people. She's trying to get, you know, others involved. Now, here's my thing. We mentioned earlier, right? She wasn't paying her staff.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:14Speaker 00

  Okay. You don't pay your staff. You sell the spa. At what point does your former employee, Ashley, kind of no longer have allegiance to you? And is okay with giving you up? Now, she was involved. They had to give her immunity.

• 33:33Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 33:34Speaker 00

  To do it, but she gave her up.

• 33:36Speaker 01

  I mean, there is no loyalty amongst thieves and murderers, but definitely not now.

• 33:43Speaker 00

  But here's the thing for me, right? You can't involve all these different people in a murder plot and then turn around and treat them like crap.

• 33:55Speaker 01

  No, it's gonna go bad for you.

• 33:56Speaker 00

  It is, but people do it time after time. We see it happen quite a bit. Ashley confirmed that Lindley contacted Michael Humphrey when this plot failed. Lindley initially claimed Michael was the shooter, but later admitted to shooting Ben herself. I mean, she is really not only a mastermind, but I mean, she is heartless.

• 34:22Speaker 01

  She is.

• 34:23Speaker 00

  In this whole thing.

• 34:24Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 34:24Speaker 00

  If she's guilty.

• 34:26Speaker 01

  Shooting your husband to kill him and let's not forget, I mean, it's the father of her kids. How could you do that?

• 34:35Speaker 00

  Well, he was the biological father to one, but it sounded like he was really a father to her other children as well.

• 34:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:43Speaker 00

  He loved them, you know, helped take care of them. On January 16th, 2020, Lindley Renick and Michael Humphrey were arrested and charged with murder and armed criminal action. Humphrey went to trial first in October, 2021. Prosecutors told the jury that Humphrey drove Lindley to the farm on the day of the murder. The defense acknowledged this fact, but denied that Humphrey gave Lindley the gun used in the shooting. The defense argued that Humphrey was lured to the snake farm by Lindley, who said she wanted protection from Ben. He had no idea she planned to kill Ben and was shocked when she shot him.

• 35:26Speaker 00

  But Assistant Attorney General Kevin Zellner said Humphrey's claim that he knew nothing of Lindley's plot doesn't fly with common sense. He pointed out texts between Lindley and Humphrey hours after Ben was shot, which appeared to show them arranging for Humphrey to set up another massage appointment, appointment at Lindley Spa. Okay. Yeah. I, I see where he's going with this. If you don't know anything about it and you're so shocked when she shoots her husband, are you then going to act like nothing happened?

• 36:07Speaker 00

  Are you gonna send kind of innocuous messages back and forth about setting up a, uh, an appointment at the spa for a massage? No, probably not.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  No. No, you know, you shouldn't want anything involved at that point.

• 36:21Speaker 00

  And not to mention the fact that, you know, obviously he never went to police or, you know, never said anything about it.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  I mean, he did just get out of prison, so I'm pretty sure he was also worried about being sent back.

• 36:32Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, that's true. I get that. But if that's the case, maybe shouldn't get involved in a murder plot.

• 36:40Speaker 01

  Exactly. Stay away from that stuff.

• 36:42Speaker 00

  The defense focused on Lindley Renick and Ashley Shaw's role in the murder plot, telling the jury that the women came up with the details and left Humphrey out of most of it, other than recruiting him to drive to the farm. The jury heard Humphrey's interview from the day of his arrest where he said he didn't know of Lindley's plan to kill Ben. He went to the farm with Lindley to help her get her belongings as she ended her marriage with Ben. He thought he was there to make sure things didn't get out of hand. When they got out of the car, she tried handing him a gun, which he pushed away. Humphrey said he didn't see the gun after that.

• 37:25Speaker 00

  He and Lindley met Ben at the snake barn only 10 seconds after they walked in. He heard the first gunshot. He then ran out to the car. It's not the worst story I've ever heard.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  No, but is it believable?

• 37:40Speaker 00

  No, because I don't tend to believe most defendants. But it's not the wackiest, most implausible thing a defendant has ever come up with.

• 37:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, once you saw she had a gun, why would you even get out of the car and walk up there with her? Knowing that you just got out of prison, you know, this is probably not gonna go well.

• 38:04Speaker 00

  But I do think when you pair it with some of the messages that came afterward.

• 38:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:09Speaker 00

  Then it tends to make it a little more implausible, right? Hey, make sure you set up an appointment for a massage, even though I just killed somebody.

• 38:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:20Speaker 00

  You know, that, that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

• 38:24Speaker 01

  It doesn't.

• 38:25Speaker 00

  But if you just had the story and nothing else to go with it, maybe a jury could say it's plausible.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 38:33Speaker 00

  Lindley's former boyfriend, Brandon Blackwell, testified at Humphrey's trial, telling the jury, Lindley confessed to him that she and spa manager Ashley Shaw plotted to kill Ben with Humphrey's help here again, right? You tell someone the details of a murder who you then later break up with and file a restraining order against or a protective order against.

• 39:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:02Speaker 00

  Okay, that person's probably not going to be real happy and at some point might be eager to help the police in your prosecution.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, you don't want to be with me, I'm gonna show you what I'm gonna do to you now.

• 39:16Speaker 00

  Now, at the same time, the jury has to weigh his credibility, as they do with, with everyone, and he has some things going against him, you know, namely some violence, a protective order, things like that, and maybe a good reason to get back at her.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true.

• 39:34Speaker 00

  On October 20th, 2021, Michael Humphrey was found guilty of second degree murder and armed criminal action. He received a life sentence, but was granted the possibility of parole because he agreed to testify against Lindley.

• 39:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I am pretty certain he is hating the fact that he reconnected with his previous girlfriend coming out of prison.

• 40:00Speaker 00

  Yes, because he had just gotten out of prison. He could have started his life over. He could have walked the straight and narrow, met somebody new, made the best of it, and now he's going to potentially spend the rest of his life back in prison.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  I'm pretty sure those massages were not worth it all.

• 40:21Speaker 00

  And you're using air quotes, so you think this was not a reputable massage place?

• 40:30Speaker 01

  I'm thinking he got special attention.

• 40:32Speaker 00

  That could be.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, that could be.

• 40:34Speaker 00

  But here's another smart thing, right, that the prosecution does, hey, we'll give you the possibility of parole if you testify against Lindley. And these are the types of deals they have to make all the time.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 40:50Speaker 00

  After the conviction, Humphrey admitted he provided the murder weapon and told investigators where they could find it. It was hidden in his girlfriend's mother's attic.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  Good for him, like, because he has, has it still. For, for me, I never understand why people hold on to those things, like, get rid of it, break it down in multiple pieces and get rid of it. Why are you doing, holding on to it?

• 41:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, but like you said, good for him, because if he didn't have it, maybe he's not able to make the deal.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 41:25Speaker 00

  He can definitely make this deal because he has concrete evidence. But I'm with you. I don't know why murderers keep those weapons, it's only gonna hurt them if it's found. While preparing for Lindley's trial, her defense requested to keep Brandon Blackwell out of the proceedings because he invoked his Fifth Amendment rights during a May and November 2021 deposition. He refused to talk about his pending stalking case stemming from his violation of the protective order granted to Lindley. The judge approved the defense's request, and that's a blow to the prosecution.

• 42:05Speaker 01

  Sure it is.

• 42:06Speaker 00

  Right, not having this guy, not being able to call him. Lindley's murder trial started in December 2021. In opening statements, the prosecution told the jury that Lindley plotted to kill Ben twice and was assisted by spa manager Ashley Shaw and her ex-boyfriend, Michael Humphrey. She first tried to kill him by drugging his protein shake, then became sick, but didn't die, and then two weeks later, she shot him eight times. Lindley didn't want to divorce Ben because she was scared of losing custody of the children. Ben was also in the process of selling part of his business, like we said, right, for

• 42:48Speaker 00

  1.2 million, and she was the sole beneficiary of his $1 million life insurance policy.

• 42:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, she wanted that money, right? The 1 million, 1.2, and whatever, whatever else they would eventually get for all the other reptiles.

• 43:02Speaker 00

  And she sold the farm.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  And the farm.

• 43:05Speaker 00

  Which was allegedly supposed to be divided with Sam.

• 43:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:10Speaker 00

  And it sounds like she sold the whole thing, took the money and ran, but, you know, people kill for a lot less, this is quite a bit of money.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:19Speaker 00

  The defense said Lindley and Ben were infatuated with each other and supportive of each other's businesses. However, they fell out of love because Lindley was a victim of unwanted sexual advances and abuse from Ben. Lindley confided this to Michael Humphrey. Now, I understand the abuse, but I'm not sure about the unwanted sexual advances.

• 43:47Speaker 01

  And maybe she just didn't want him from Ben.

• 43:50Speaker 00

  No, I, I think that's what, that's what, exactly what it was saying.

• 43:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:54Speaker 00

  But husbands often make advances towards their wives that are shot down. I don't think that's criminal.

• 44:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you know, when you're married for a while, you're gonna hear that no a lot. I mean, you hear it probably what, two, three, four times a, a week?

• 44:13Speaker 00

  At the, at least.

• 44:14Speaker 01

  It's not a day.

• 44:15Speaker 00

  Over 30 years?

• 44:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:17Speaker 00

  I, I never thought about being charged criminally for that, but, uh, no, and I'm, again, I'm kind of joking around here, but I'm definitely separating that from any abuse.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely.

• 44:29Speaker 00

  That is being alleged. It just said unwanted sexual advances. I believe there are a lot of unwanted sexual advances in any marriage. It's just that one of the individuals in the marriage says, no.

• 44:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, or, honey, I got a headache.

• 44:46Speaker 00

  Yes, that happens all the time. So I was a little confused by that. Maybe there's something more to it that I'm not thinking.

• 44:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, potentially, yeah.

• 44:56Speaker 00

  According to the defense, Lindley went to the farm with Michael on June 8th, 2017, to talk to Ben about divorce. She took the trash out, and when she came back inside the snake facility, she heard a shot ring out. Michael was the one who shot Ben. Lindley ran back outside and screamed as more shots rang out. The defense also argued that Ashley Shaw's testimony was coerced because she feared going to prison. And I'll be honest with you, I mean, this is not a bad strategy, at least in my thinking, on the part of her defense team, right? You, you gotta blame it on Michael.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:41Speaker 00

  Because ultimately, he's the one who still had the gun, who was able to turn the murder weapon over to police. We mentioned it pretty early on. Lindley was tested for GSR and it came back negative.

• 45:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:59Speaker 00

  Now, that doesn't mean everything, right? You could scrub, you could get maybe rid of it or whatever for police get there, but I think this is their only shot.

• 46:10Speaker 01

  But what's the motive for Michael versus her?

• 46:13Speaker 00

  No, because she, he wants to be with her.

• 46:15Speaker 01

  Wants to be with her.

• 46:16Speaker 00

  And maybe he thinks Ben is abusing her and that's what she's told him. Again, you could see how the defense could kind of craft it.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  Sure, yeah.

• 46:26Speaker 00

  And maybe just plant that seed of doubt in the jury's mind.

• 46:31Speaker 01

  I don't think Ashley Shaw was coerced. I think she had to do what was needed to protect herself.

• 46:38Speaker 00

  Well, if she has the opportunity, why would she not want to cut a deal? Right, she was involved in this thing. Maybe not in the ultimate murder, but she did give over the pills when Lindley tried to poison Ben.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  And it's true, she, she brought the Percocets.

• 46:57Speaker 00

  She, she was gonna be charged with that, so I, I do think she was covering herself.

• 47:02Speaker 01

  It is amazing how many people had some type of involvement or conversations about Ben needing to be taken out.

• 47:12Speaker 00

  But, you know, we talk about that in many episodes. Killers are either solitary, meaning they don't tell anybody, or they tell a bunch of people.

• 47:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:26Speaker 00

  And they try to recruit a bunch of people into their endeavors, and it's like, okay, they don't think that these people are gonna turn on them later on if, if things go south? I, I just don't get it.

• 47:39Speaker 01

  In this case, especially when you treat those people badly.

• 47:42Speaker 00

  Yes, yeah, and I think that was a weird, kind of strange thing for Lindley to do, knowing what the stakes were. Lindley's ex-boyfriend Eric Brimmer testified that his affair with Lindley started in 2016 and continued for several months after Ben's murder. Ashley Shaw testified that she was aware Lindley had multiple affairs and that the spa was in financial decline. She lied to the police out of fear when she was arrested. And I can understand why she would be afraid, but I don't think she was afraid of police.

• 48:22Speaker 00

  I think she was afraid that it was going to be found out that she knew Lindley wanted to kill Ben and that she actually gave her the Percocet pills. Lindley asked her to help kill Ben and explained to her that divorce was not an option. Ashley agreed to help her and they talked about how they would kill Ben. Ashley obtained 12 to 15 Percocet pills and gave them to Lindley. She testified that she regretted this and called it the biggest mistake she ever made. Lindley blended the Percocet into Ben's protein shake. He got sick and vomited, but didn't die. After this plot failed, Lindley brought up the idea of getting Michael Humphrey involved

• 49:07Speaker 00

  because she believed he had guns. Lindley told Ashley she couldn't afford the fee that the Mexican mafia charged for a hit and that Michael would give her a gun.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  So she must've did some research on what that fee might've been.

• 49:23Speaker 00

  Or talked to some people or yeah, something. But also you're hearing here that Ashley was very involved in all of these discussions.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:33Speaker 00

  So you can understand why she wanted to cut a deal.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  She needed to.

• 49:37Speaker 00

  They Googled Michael's address and found him. Ashley even went with her to his home. They talked to him about how they needed his help and Michael provided Lindley with a gun. According to Ashley, on the night of the murder, Ben and Lindley were supposed to go on a date, but Lindley told Ben she wasn't feeling well. Lindley texted Ben and asked him to pick up the kids from school. Michael and Lindley then went to the snake facility together to kill Ben in an attempt to hide her location. At the time of the murder, Lindley asked Ashley to text Ben from her phone, which she left at the spa. But Ashley didn't send any texts out of fear.

• 50:22Speaker 00

  Lindley came back to the spa after killing Ben and asked Ashley to help her scrub her body and hands. And there again, that is probably why they didn't find any gunshot residue on her when they did the text.

• 50:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, she scrubbed them out.

• 50:39Speaker 00

  Michael then showed up and asked Lindley whether Ashley knew what happened. Lindley stated that Ashley didn't know and Michael left shortly after. Later, Lindley asked Ashley to warn Michael that the police would contact him about Ben's murder. Lindley then got a call from the school that the kids weren't picked up. She picked them up and went back to the farm to discover Ben's body. Michael Humphrey testified that he agreed to help Lindley after she told him Ben was sexually abusing her. She told him about the unsuccessful poisoning attempt. She asked whether he knew anyone that could help her kill Ben.

• 51:21Speaker 00

  Michael told Lindley he would think about whether he knew someone. On the afternoon of June 8th, 2017, Michael picked Lindley up from the spa and drove to the snake breeding facility for what he thought was a discussion between Ben and Lindley. He anticipated the meeting would end with a peaceful resolution. He entered the snake house with Lindley and she told Ben he was an old high school friend who was there to check out the snakes. Ben walked towards the snake containers. Michael stayed by the doorway and Lindley followed. Michael heard a gunshot and saw Lindley standing there, holding the gun. He heard several more gunshots as he left the building.

• 52:05Speaker 00

  Lindley then came running outside and told him to drive. He didn't recall seeing any blood on her. He admitted to lying and leaving out details and said he eventually told the state police where the gun was. And I think Gibbs, you can see why it was so important for the prosecution to have both Ashley and Michael.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:29Speaker 00

  Critical. They needed them to corroborate, you know, all of this evidence or really lack of evidence, but their theory of what Lindley had done, you know, put the gun in Lindley's hand, put her as the shooter. They needed both these people.

• 52:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it helped tie the whole story together.

• 52:54Speaker 00

  Now, I don't know if Michael was being a hundred percent truthful. It did seem to me like he potentially was softening his part a little bit.

• 53:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:06Speaker 00

  You know, saying, well, I didn't know it was going to happen. I just thought we were, we were going out there to, for them to talk and I was going to stand by for protection. Maybe that's true, or maybe he knew she was going to kill him. I don't know.

• 53:22Speaker 01

  But if you bring a gun to something like that, you know, it could go bad.

• 53:27Speaker 00

  Right. And he gave her the gun.

• 53:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:31Speaker 00

  But did he need to lie? Right? Normally when you make a deal, you don't need to lie.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 53:37Speaker 00

  Although some deals, if you implicate yourself in the actual murder, the deal goes away. So there could be a part of that here as well. Spa employee Rachel Hunt, who was also offered immunity, testified that Lindley told her on June 8th that she and Michael were going to kill Ben.

• 53:58Speaker 01

  Telling another person, hey, I'm going to kill Ben.

• 54:01Speaker 00

  She's just talking about this at the spa to all her employees.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  She must've really thought these other girls were part of her squad and they were tight.

• 54:11Speaker 00

  And they were, they would never turn on her.

• 54:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:14Speaker 00

  I'll tell you what, you get offered immunity, people will turn.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  Quickly.

• 54:19Speaker 00

  No doubt about it. And let's not forget, at one point she stopped paying them. The spa closed, so really any allegiance they had to her at some point was probably broken anyway. The prosecution noted that Lindley called and texted Ben, expressing concern when she knew he was dead. Those texts and calls were meant to create an alibi. And, and the one thing I will say is, you know, she did plan quite a bit of this out.

• 54:50Speaker 01

  She did.

• 54:51Speaker 00

  She did a lot of stupid things, but you know, leaving the phone behind at the spa and asking Ashley to send texts, you know, to help create an alibi.

• 55:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:03Speaker 00

  Sending, you know, these texts to Ben, hey, I'm getting worried about you, things like that. You know, it's, it's all very cunning. The prosecution noted that in the hours after the murder, Lindley texted and talked to the man she was having an affair with. Additionally, shell casings recovered from the crime scene matched the gun Michael Humphrey said was used to kill Ben. And, and I think all of this is very damning. I mean, just hours after the murder, you're texting and talking to this guy you're having an affair with.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:39Speaker 00

  We know just like two days after the murder, she's calling the insurance company. And then I think, you know, once Michael provides the gun and it turns out that the bullet casings match, okay, pretty hard to argue that that gun was not involved. Now you can argue who pulled the trigger.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  Can do that.

• 56:00Speaker 00

  The defense called on a childhood friend, a nurse and Lindley's father to testify that Lindley was hysterical after discovering Ben's body. She was an emotional wreck. She wouldn't eat or drink and at one point was so dehydrated, she had to be hospitalized and given IV fluids.

• 56:20Speaker 01

  Oh, but she could call her ex-boyfriend?

• 56:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:25Speaker 01

  And she was okay calling the insurance company?

• 56:27Speaker 00

  Well, sure.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  You know, some critical details to get that policy going.

• 56:33Speaker 00

  But even if you're not broken up about it.

• 56:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:36Speaker 00

  Is it in your best interest to be hysterical, to play the part of the, the grieving wife?

• 56:44Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 56:45Speaker 00

  And maybe you, you don't drink anything. So you do become dehydrated and you have to be taken to the hospital. It kind of all works in your favor.

• 56:57Speaker 01

  It's all acting 101.

• 56:59Speaker 00

  Lindley decided to testify in her own defense. She told the jury that she wanted to divorce Ben, not kill him. She did say she had three affairs while they were married. She also described aspects of her relationship with Ben. For example, she testified that Ben became angry with her one morning because she didn't wake up one night while he was having sex with her. Okay. I don't know how that happens, but.

• 57:29Speaker 01

  Well, I guess it can happen. I think it'd be weird.

• 57:34Speaker 00

  It might go back to what she was calling unwanted sexual advances. But to me, that's, you've gone past the part of an advance.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:45Speaker 00

  To me, an advance is, hey, honey, do you want to go to the rumpus room?

• 57:49Speaker 01

  It's what she's trying to say is more of an assault.

• 57:53Speaker 00

  Oh yeah. She, she's describing an assault while she's asleep.

• 57:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:58Speaker 00

  And that's why I was kind of saying earlier, I was real fuzzy on the unwanted sexual advances versus the abuse. Cause to me, those are two very different things. Now, if you're not married to someone, obviously sexual advances get real tricky. If you are married, they're kind of part of married life and they're either reciprocated or in my case, they're often turned down.

• 58:25Speaker 01

  And for good reason.

• 58:26Speaker 00

  For good reason. She said the real reason she wanted to divorce was because Ben resented the time she spent with the children. She felt he wanted her to choose him over the kids. I gotta be honest with you, if I'm a juror, I'm, I'm not really buying that one.

• 58:42Speaker 01

  And it's hard to buy it, right? Because he is not there to provide his side of the story.

• 58:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, he can't defend himself, obviously. Now, could someone resent the amount of time you spend with your children? Yeah, obviously it could happen. Is that how most people feel? I would say no. Let's not forget, one of the, the children was his biologically.

• 59:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:08Speaker 00

  And the others, it seemed like he cared for a great deal.

• 59:12Speaker 01

  Like they were his own.

• 59:13Speaker 00

  Yeah. Lindley testified that she brought Michael to the snake farm that day because she was worried Ben would get physical. She was thinking about how to bring up divorce. When she and Michael arrived at the facility, Ben was outside taking the trash. She took the trash and when she went back inside the facility, she saw Michael pull the gun on Ben. She screamed and ran outside and then heard more gunshots.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  You know, if you were that concerned that things could get physical, why even go confront somebody? Do it on the phone, right? Do it through an attorney.

• 59:52Speaker 00

  Or remember we talked about earlier, the massive amounts of Facebook texts or messages that they sent each other, which I thought was strange. But here, this might be a time to send some type of message rather than have a face-to-face meeting.

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:00:10Speaker 00

  If you think it's gonna get out of hand. Lindley testified that she didn't know exactly what happened. In her words, she suspected something happened, but she didn't want to believe it. She was frozen with fear when Michael emerged and ordered her to get in the car. She didn't recall what was said in the 40, 50 minute ride back to the spa. Ashley helped her clean up, but she was still out of it. Okay, so a question I would have is if you're not in there when Ben is shot, why do you need to clean up so much?

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  Exactly. When are you cleaning up?

• 1:00:50Speaker 00

  You wouldn't have gun residue. You theoretically shouldn't have any blood on you because you weren't in there.

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  There's nothing to scrub off of you.

• 1:00:59Speaker 00

  She didn't want to believe Ben had been killed and regretted lying to police about being at the facility when Ben was shot. She realized Ben had been shot to death. When she returned to the snake farm after picking the kids up from school, Lindley testified that she was hysterical and told an EMT, a snake could not have done this. She lied to the police during the six interviews she had before she was arrested. She never told them Michael was the killer and tried to throw police off his trail by pointing the finger at Ben's brother Sam. And I think all of that goes against her.

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  It does, and I don't think she was trying to throw the scent off of Michael. I think she was trying to throw the scent off of her by calling out Sam.

• 1:01:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm with you a hundred percent. But when you then later get on the stand at trial and try to bring these things up.

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:54Speaker 00

  They're not gonna fly because everything you've said on record before this doesn't match. Right? If you stick with the same story all the way through, well, maybe then when you get on the stand, the jury might believe you, but they're not gonna believe this.

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  You know, even if, you know, she lied once to the police and then came clean, but you know, she said she lied, all six interviews, she lied. She doubled down on what she thought she needed to do and it didn't work out for her.

• 1:02:29Speaker 00

  On December 9th, 2021, Lindley was found guilty of second degree murder and armed criminal action. The jury recommended 16 years in prison, 13 years for murder and three years for armed criminal action. On January 24th, 2022, the judge upheld the jury's recommendation for sentencing. The judge told Lindley, per ABC 17, "You're awful lucky, ma'am. You're going to get out in your 40s and my 40s weren't too bad. I just hope you don't kill again."

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  And she really got lucky.

• 1:03:04Speaker 00

  I think she got extremely lucky. I feel like this was extremely light. But again, she was found guilty of second degree murder, right? Not first degree murder.

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:16Speaker 00

  And to me, this really was first degree murder because if she killed him, she undoubtedly planned it out.

• 1:03:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:25Speaker 00

  Not once, but twice.

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  Maybe just the jury felt they could make the second degree murder stick, maybe because they weren't a hundred percent that she did it all on her own.

• 1:03:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, who knows, right? We weren't in the, in the jury room. Ben's brother Sam read a statement on behalf of the family. He said Lindley made up a web of lies to cover up the crime, adding, "She led me directly to my brother's dead body, then put on a show, an act." In February 2022, Lindley filed a defamation lawsuit against her ex-boyfriend, Brandon Blackwell, alleging he lied to investigators about the murder. Lindley's attorney Connie Sullivan told ABC 17, "He had criminal charges pending that he was trying to get out of. He took the fifth and didn't testify." So the jury in the court never got to hear the statement that started the charges against

• 1:04:24Speaker 00

  Lindley. Prosecutors dropped the stalking charges against Blackwell following Lindley's conviction. And this case appeared in an episode of Dateline this summer. Lindley's legal team told Dateline that no prints, gunshot residue or DNA were recovered at the scene. They also noted that Michael Humphrey, Ashley Shaw and Rachel Hunt had something to gain by cooperating with authorities.

• 1:04:53Speaker 01

  Where they had deals.

• 1:04:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't think there's any doubt that they did have something to gain by cooperating. Most people do, and that's why they cooperate. In an interview with Dateline, Lindley denied killing Ben, saying, "Out of everybody here, I had the most to lose. I lost everything with Ben dying." That's a tough statement to make because out of everyone, she actually had the most to gain.

• 1:05:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, she got the life insurance policy. She got all the money from the sale of the farm and the reptiles.

• 1:05:28Speaker 00

  Now, I think she's arguing, "I had the most to lose because I lost Ben."

• 1:05:34Speaker 01

  But she didn't want Ben because she was having multiple affairs.

• 1:05:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, I get it, but what is she going to say?

• 1:05:40Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:05:41Speaker 00

  In January 2023, Michael Humphrey filed an appeal, seeking a new trial. Michael's attorneys argued the judge should not have allowed a key witness to testify about what a co-defendant in the case told him about who killed Ben. Brandon Blackwell should not have been allowed to testify at trial. Blackwell told investigators that Lindley told him about the shooting when they started dating after Ben's death. Blackwell claimed Lindley recruited Michael to help her get a gun and kill Ben. Michael's defense argued that this testimony was inadmissible hearsay. His defense did not object to this at trial.

• 1:06:24Speaker 00

  In August 2023, Michael Humphrey lost his appeal to the Missouri Court of Appeals. The court ruled that because the state lowered the first degree murder charge to second degree murder and dropped the armed criminal action charge, Humphrey gave up his right to a direct appeal.

• 1:06:43Speaker 01

  So they made a deal and he has to stick with it.

• 1:06:46Speaker 00

  So as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, you know, Ben Renick was murdered shortly before his 30th birthday. His life was tragically cut short, but his legacy lives on in the exotic reptile community. In fact, a new breed of snake called the Renick Ghost was named in his honor.

• 1:07:07Speaker 01

  That's cool.

• 1:07:07Speaker 00

  It is cool. And we said it, right? He was a rock star in the reptile community. You know, his wife Lindley was convicted of killing him. Her defense is trying to say she didn't do it. They're bringing up all kinds of things. There's no doubt that, at least in my mind, that Lindley, Ashley, and Michael Humphrey all played a role in kind of planning this and all that.

• 1:07:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:37Speaker 00

  But who stood to gain the most from his death?

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  Lindley.

• 1:07:42Speaker 00

  There's no doubt about it. When you look at the astronomical amount of money that she got out of his death, that's a big motive for murder.

• 1:07:53Speaker 01

  It is.

• 1:07:53Speaker 00

  And you, and then you throw in the fares, the, uh, the pending, uh, alleged divorce. She's fearful she might lose custody, all of that. There's motive on top of motive.

• 1:08:06Speaker 01

  I mean, you have multiple people saying she didn't want to be married, that she wanted out, and she wanted Ben to die.

• 1:08:14Speaker 00

  But I will say, there are some things that are not quite crystal clear in this case.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  I understand that.

• 1:08:20Speaker 00

  Right? Some people took plea deals.

• 1:08:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:23Speaker 00

  They had things to gain for pointing the finger at Lindley. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. You just have to take that into account. You know, this is one of those cases where, you know, a jury has to listen to, to everything and they have to try to figure out who's telling the truth. And by my way of thinking, they just did not believe Lindley.

• 1:08:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:50Speaker 00

  And they didn't believe that Michael Humphrey was the shooter.

• 1:08:54Speaker 01

  Even if Michael was a shooter, you can make the case that he was a shooter because he was hired or directed to shoot from her. But, you know, again, I think, you know, you have Michael, you have, uh, both the girls at the salon, you know, saying what they said. I think it's hard to, uh, dispute when you have that many people saying the same thing. And I don't think Michael, Ashley, and Rachel got together and said, hey, you know, let's conspire against her.

• 1:09:28Speaker 00

  Well, you'd have to believe that, right? To, to think they were all lying.

• 1:09:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:09:33Speaker 00

  Against Lindley. My thing is, I don't know what Michael Humphrey has to gain by killing Ben himself without direction from Lindley or in conjunction with Lindley.

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:50Speaker 00

  Cause if he's getting any money, it's going to have to come from her.

• 1:09:53Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:09:54Speaker 00

  But that's it for our episode on Ben Renick. We got a voicemail. You want to check that out? It's here.

• 1:10:00Speaker 02

  Hey, Mike and Gibby, this is, uh, Blake calling from Madison, Georgia. And, um, I just had a quick question for you guys regarding, uh, I guess the overall opinion of what people think about true crime, because I guess in our echo chamber, like everybody that listens to the podcast or engages with it are obviously interested in true crime. But I've seen, um, some stuff from outside of the true crime community, just basically like from, uh, public shooters or mass shooters or whatever, that are saying that true crime is harmful and that, uh, general is generally everyone in the true crime community's got like something wrong with them and that, uh, talking about true crime is harmful. So I guess my question is, have you guys dealt with that? Or do you just primarily deal with people in the

• 1:10:45Speaker 02

  community? I can't imagine someone has come from, you know, outside just to attack you guys. But I guess I was just wondering what, uh, what you guys' opinion is on people that are outside of the true crime community and what they might think about us that are, you know, obsessed with it and are constantly looking into it. Uh, but yeah, that is my question and keep your own time ticking. Thanks.

• 1:11:05Speaker 00

  All right. Thank you so much. I think it's a great question. Yeah, obviously we hear stuff all the time. Um, you read it, not, not so much directed towards us specifically, but you read stuff all the time. My take on it has always been that a lot of people are fascinated by true crime, not because they want to emulate any of the things that we talk about or things that happen in these cases. They don't want to be like these people. They want to know what makes these people tick.

• 1:11:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:11:37Speaker 00

  They also want to know what to, to look for, maybe. Signs, ways to help keep themselves safe. Um, just, I mean, there's a lot of reasons people are into true crime. Is there some morbid fascination? Yeah. And I think in a sense, but to me, it's not because people listening want to do any of these things. They're trying to figure out how these people can do it. How they get to the point where they're driven to do it, stuff like that.

• 1:12:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think even on the unsolved stuff, they're trying to help figure out who.

• 1:12:17Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But appreciate the voicemail very much. All right, buddy. That is it for another episode of True Crime All the Time. So for Mike.

• 1:12:26Speaker 01

  And Gibby.

• 1:12:26Speaker 00

  Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.