Pod Insights Tooth & Claw: True Stories of Animal Attacks The Revenant: A T&C Movie Review About this episode Wes had some thoughts about the bear attack featured in the 2015 movie The Revenant, so we thought it would be a fun idea to discuss what the movie got right and what it got wrong about how that scenario would actually play out. And since we were already there talking about it, we thought we'd talk about the rest of the movie too!
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Transcript 16,757 words · 6 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:12 Jeff Larson? Hello everyone, welcome back to Tooth and Claw Podcast. We have our bear biologist Wes Larson in the house.
0:21 Wes Larson? In the shed. Wes.
0:23 Jeff Larson? Wes. Holla, Wes?
0:25 Wes Larson? Yeah.
0:26 Jeff Larson? You got any updates for us on anything?
0:28 Wes Larson? Hmm, not really. I um-
0:30 Jeff Larson? No update. You haven't done a single thing since last time you talked to us.
0:33 Wes Larson? No, I have. I've done, I've done some things.
0:36 Jeff Larson? We'll update us on that all.
0:37 Wes Larson? Update on it all.
0:39 Jeff Larson? Dishes?
0:39 Wes Larson? I've not really done any dishes. I've been out of town.
0:42 Jeff Larson? Okay.
0:43 Wes Larson? I went to Bonnet to do a little diving, because we're going, we're going to the Galapagos on a toothy trip and we decided to plan a little diving trip right before with the three of us. And I realized that I'm not qualified to dive in the Galapagos, so I've been trying to get a little practice in beforehand, which isn't the worst thing in the world.
1:03 Jeff Larson? No.
1:03 Wes Larson? You know, it was not the most responsible trip, but I still went and I had a great time. You're probably feeling pretty physically fit for that trip, Jeff, right now, right? You're feeling pretty good. Jeff, are you feeling perfectly ready for our trip there?
1:17 Jeff Larson? We have our best friend Mike, who does our sound and stuff, and then I'm Wes's brother Jeff, and yeah, I'm-
1:23 Wes Larson? Sound and stuff, sure.
1:25 Jeff Larson? What do you want me to say?
1:27 Wes Larson? It doesn't matter at this point. He's our producer and co-host.
1:30 Jeff Larson? Producer sounds weird.
1:32 Wes Larson? It's a little stuffy. Producer encapsulates all of that, though, like, sound, video, Mike does it all. Produce.
1:38 Jeff Larson? Yeah, that's, I said sound.
1:40 Wes Larson? He's not our sound guy.
1:41 Jeff Larson? Yeah, I don't know. I tried to go skiing today. I had like a full-blown asthma attack on my first run, and it's not common for me.
1:48 Wes Larson? Have you ever had one before?
1:49 Jeff Larson? I've had where my teeth get kind of metallic and I get like the bloody taste in my mouth if I get tired, pretty much my whole life, but I just always ignore it.
1:58 Wes Larson? Is that an asthma thing?
2:00 Jeff Larson? I don't know. I'm like, I, today is just like I couldn't breathe and it still just feels like I have 40 pounds on my chest right now.
2:07 Wes Larson? Yeah, like you got a grizzly bear on your chest.
2:10 Jeff Larson? Yeah. No, I luckily my neighbor is a doctor. So like if I do die, she could pronounce me dead right away, which would be great.
2:19 Wes Larson? That is nice to just get that out of the way real quick. Yeah. So our, our upcoming trip to the Himalayas and then our Galapagos dive trip.
2:29 Jeff Larson? For real. Yeah. I don't know. It's, I maybe I can get, I'll go to the doctor, I think tomorrow and just be like, hey, I think I might have asthma and they'll be like, well, why didn't you go to an asthma doctor? And I'll be like, I didn't know those existed. And then they'll be like, well, do you want us to touch your balls while you cough? And I'll be like, no, thank you. And then they'll be like,
2:52 Wes Larson? You're gonna turn that down?
2:55 Jeff Larson? Well, you can meet with another doctor in four months and pay us $400 with your insurance copay. Great.
3:03 Wes Larson? Thank you.
3:06 Wes Larson? It's about how it'll go. Uh, speaking of another way, things are super messed up right now. Have you guys ever heard of autopilot? This isn't like an ad for them.
3:15 Jeff Larson? Tesla.
3:16 Wes Larson? It's this app that lets you invest and it does the same investments as like political figures.
3:24 Jeff Larson? Yeah. It like follows Nancy Pelosi and stuff. Yeah.
3:27 Wes Larson? Yeah. So I downloaded that today and it's kind of like, if they're going to be insider trading, you might as well benefit from it.
3:35 Jeff Larson? It's a good thought.
3:36 Wes Larson? So yeah, that's what I'm doing now.
3:38 Jeff Larson? Nice dude. Good for you.
3:40 Wes Larson? See if I get rich from it. Yeah.
3:42 Jeff Larson? Dude, before we know it, you'll just be one of them.
3:45 Wes Larson? I apologize.
3:48 Wes Larson? I wouldn't hold your breath for that one, my dog. Uh, you can't hold your breath or else you might have an asthma attack.
3:54 Jeff Larson? Yeah. Mike thinks my breathing is normally bad. Today's gonna be especially.
4:00 Wes Larson? Dreading the, uh, editing process on this one. Luckily you only do, you only do sound for us.
4:05 Jeff Larson? Yeah.
4:06 Wes Larson? That's my one responsibility.
4:08 Jeff Larson? You don't think he's our sound guy. That's crazy.
4:11 Wes Larson? I wouldn't, if someone were to ask, what does Mike do your, for your podcast? I would say he's our sound guy.
4:16 Jeff Larson? Well, I said best friend.
4:18 Wes Larson? Yeah, that's, that's, that is my biggest role on the show.
4:22 Mike Smith? But anyway.
4:23 Jeff Larson? I don't know, maybe I feel jealous because like I never give myself a cool title.
4:28 Mike Smith? You say you were my tech in the field.
4:30 Jeff Larson? Field tech.
4:31 Mike Smith? You're everyone's favorite. You're the funny one.
4:33 Jeff Larson? But like if I'm like, I'm the funny one. Mike's the producer. Like you sound way better than me, you know?
4:39 Mike Smith? No.
4:40 Wes Larson? Yeah, that once though you asked and I said, you're the heart and soul of the podcast.
4:44 Mike Smith? Oh, wow.
4:45 Jeff Larson? That's pretty good.
4:46 Wes Larson? Yours not the lungs of the podcast.
4:49 Jeff Larson? That's pretty, yeah.
4:52 Mike Smith? Speaking of podcasts, usually we talk about what Wes? What do we do on this here show?
4:57 Wes Larson? We tend to talk about animal attacks and we feel as though they often get a bad slant in the media. They tend to, you know, say that the animal was predatory or monstrous or brutal or something like that. When really it's just an animal displaying natural behavior and it's often just reacting to something that the person did. And once you understand that, it really empowers people to feel more prepared and more safe around around wildlife. So that's kind of the point of this podcast. It's been a great ride so far. And if Jeff dies, it'll probably end. So don't die, Jeff.
5:32 Mike Smith? He's the heart and soul and the funny one.
5:34 Wes Larson? Yeah, we need our heart and our soul. Anyway, last week, Mike did an episode on Hugh Jass or Hugh Glass. Um, and it was great. It was all about him and his struggle after he was mauled by a bear. He crawled lots of miles.
5:49 Jeff Larson? Sound guy Mike did that?
5:51 Wes Larson? Sound guy Mike. Yeah.
5:53 Mike Smith? Took a break.
5:53 Jeff Larson? We got him doing episodes now?
5:55 Mike Smith? I made the appropriate sounds with my mouth into the microphone. The vibrations of my vocal cords.
6:02 Jeff Larson? That's a good point. Sound guy covers a lot of sounds.
6:04 Mike Smith? There you go. Maybe you're on to something there.
6:07 Wes Larson? Yeah. And an audio format. It was a great episode, but we kind of wanted to make it a two parter in a way. In that when people think of the story of Hugh Glass, it's almost impossible not to think of the movie, The Revenant, which is a movie that came out in 2015. It's a big deal movie. It really brought the story of Hugh Glass to the public consciousness. A lot of people hadn't heard of it before and then they they learned the story, kind of, you know? It, yeah, there's definitely some artistic liberties, but more or less it's his story. So this week we wanted to talk about that movie. We want to give it a basic review, go into some fun categories. I wanted to talk about the bear scene particularly because I get a lot of questions about that scene and how accurate it is.
6:52 Wes Larson? And just kind of have some fun with it. So it's going to be a, an unorthodox episode for us. But I think it's going to be really fun.
6:58 Jeff Larson? Great.
7:00 Wes Larson? So if you
7:00 Jeff Larson? I like to have fun.
7:01 Mike Smith? Same dude.
7:02 Wes Larson? Yeah. If you haven't seen the movie, I would recommend just pressing pause, watching the movie and then coming back and listening. Although sometimes it's fun to listen to these before you watch the movie too. That's what I do with rewatchable sometimes.
7:16 Jeff Larson? Well, yeah, we're, we're gonna spoil it probably.
7:19 Wes Larson? Yeah, we're gonna spoil some things. Really quick, before we get started, I have two quick correction corners. The first is unrelated to Hugh Glass and it's about elephants. A few weeks ago, we falsely said that the elephants at the Hoagol Zoo were taken away. That's not true. Even when we said it, I kind of like did a mental pin to remember to look into that.
7:40 Mike Smith? They escaped?
7:41 Wes Larson? No. And, and like, I, I didn't like that we said that too, because me and Jeff especially, like, we love the Hoagol Zoo. Um, it's probably my, the zoo definitely I've been the most to, and it's one of my favorite zoos. And I know that they're really good there. And actually what had happened with their elephants is that they realized there was another facility that had better social activities for those elephants and potential breeding opportunities. So they transferred those elephants there. And thank you to listener Olivia for letting us know that. And for rightly checking us on that because, uh, we shouldn't have said what
8:17 Mike Smith? The Hoagol Zoo wasn't quite like a sexy enough environment. There wasn't like a heart shaped mattress spinning around in a circle and stuff.
8:24 Wes Larson? Like a bunch of
8:25 Mike Smith? Mirror on the ceilings.
8:26 Wes Larson? Leading to it. No, unfortunately not.
8:29 Jeff Larson? Now we're gonna have to correct that next time, Mike.
8:32 Wes Larson? Ah dang.
8:35 Jeff Larson? She's like, actually, it is really sexy.
8:40 Mike Smith? And we can't correct ourselves in the episode in which we make a mistake. We have to wait till next time.
8:45 Wes Larson? Yeah, we have to wait. Exactly. Uh, the other one is from last week's Hugh Glass episode. And it was a pronunciation of the tribe. Mike pronounced it Arrakara.
8:56 Mike Smith? Oh.
8:56 Wes Larson? And it's Arric Arricara.
8:58 Mike Smith? I've been curious about that. I don't know.
9:00 Wes Larson? Yeah.
9:01 Mike Smith? It's a hard word. Arricara.
9:02 Wes Larson? Arricara. Uh huh. Definitely didn't want to get that wrong. That's a tribe that's mostly been wiped out and they've kind of also integrated with some other tribes in the Dakotas. But I know like as of 2007, there's only like 10 people that could speak the Arricara language. So, but they feature pretty prominently in this story. So.
9:22 Jeff Larson? Is that the one Mike tried for pronunciation?
9:26 Wes Larson? At least.
9:26 Mike Smith? He might have.
9:27 Jeff Larson? And you didn't get it?
9:28 Mike Smith? I shortened it to re because that's I guess common shorthand for it. I don't know if that's acceptable either. I probably botched all kinds of different ways than that, but I'm glad to know.
9:38 Wes Larson? Yeah.
9:38 Mike Smith? Arricara.
9:39 Wes Larson? Yeah, Arricara. Yep. So, and, and there's a chance I'm not saying that right, but I watched some YouTube videos of some indigenous people saying it. And I'm pretty sure that's how they said it.
9:49 Jeff Larson? Hopefully they said it right.
9:51 Wes Larson? Yeah, it could be though, that I'm still getting it a tiny bit wrong. Alright. So those are our corrections. Let's get into the episode. Let's talk a little bit about this movie. I'm going to do a quick plot synopsis. So there are going to be some spoilers here and then we're going to get into some nitty gritty for this movie. So pretty much it starts with Hugh Glass and we learn that he has some pretty, in this movie, some pretty intense connections to the tribe. He was with the Pawnee woman. He has a Pawnee son. And we kind of get this hint that there's been some destruction to, to him and to his family. And that's how the movie opens. And then we quickly go to him with his son. They're hunting some elk.
10:33 Wes Larson? When suddenly the Arricara attack their group, which is comprised of a bunch of fur trappers. They do all this devastation to the group. And the survivors managed to flee and get away, but it's a really great scene. Super well shot. Amazing. I think it's on my shortlist of great battle scenes from like the American West. For sure.
10:55 Jeff Larson? Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. I'd say great battle scenes.
10:58 Wes Larson? Yeah, especially where like you just suddenly see arrows going in people and they can't see where they're coming from. That would just be so scary.
11:06 Jeff Larson? And it's like a really unique setting too, where it's kind of the flooded river almost with pine trees and.
11:13 Wes Larson? And then we see them escape on the river, which is supposed to be the Missouri River. And they get away from this tribe. The tribe is chasing them because one of the women from the tribe has been kidnapped. And they think that she might be with this group of fur trappers. Then later we see Hugh and he's hunting when he's mauled by a grizzly bear. We're going to come back to this. I'm going to talk about this scene at length, but it's a great scene. I think it's shot really well. It's obviously a CG bear, but it's still really well done. And after this happens, his party is kind of they're they're left between a rock and a hard place where they're trying to carry him really far and they can't. It's really tricky. It's really physically exhausting.
11:59 Wes Larson? So they decide to leave him and they're going to leave him with a couple of people and his son. And the idea is when he dies, those people will be able to join back up with them. But they have to give him a proper burial. There's all these things that they have to do to ensure that he gets the proper respect. Cause he's essentially saved their lives at this point a few times. And do they do it?
12:18 Jeff Larson? The guy, one of the guys that they leave with them is like a guy who's been kind of complaining and questioning everything. He's been recommending the whole time.
12:27 Wes Larson? Yeah.
12:28 Jeff Larson? Fitzgerald.
12:28 Wes Larson? You kind of, yeah, you get a, you get a feel that that guy's not great. It's played by Tom Hardy.
12:33 Jeff Larson? You know, I was on his side. They got all those furs and they were in a boat. I felt safer to me than getting out.
12:42 Wes Larson? Yeah.
12:43 Jeff Larson? I tried to keep my furs and stay in the boat.
12:46 Wes Larson? Yeah, they do show the boat later, like on the shore and the people on the, there's two people that stayed on the boat and they were killed.
12:54 Jeff Larson? There were.
12:54 Wes Larson? Yeah, so it kind of shows that they made the right decision.
12:58 Mike Smith? It does some pretty subtle things too, to make you not all the way hate Tom Hardy's character, like he was partially scalped in an encounter earlier and he knows Glass has kind of been intermingling with the people who did that to him, quote unquote, like I'm sure he conflates the people of the different tribes together, but like he's got a lot of reason to just be angry at life. He says at one point, he's like, I don't have a life. This is all I know. Like if we don't have these pelts, basically I don't have a living. I need to make this happen.
13:29 Wes Larson? Right. I was about to bring that up. When they're like, hey, wouldn't you rather be alive? He's kind of like, what's the point of being alive if I have nothing? Yeah, I agree. And, and the part that kind of struck me too, is when they decide to leave him behind with Jim Bridger and Hawk, Hugh Glass's son, fictional son. He actually does dig a grave and he kind of seems like he's going to go through with the plan of letting Hugh Glass die and like do what he promised to do. But then he kind of just gets tired of it. And that's going to be one of that, one, apart from that scene is going to be in one of my favorites. We'll get to that in a bit. But yeah, so they decide to abandon Hugh Glass. He tricks Jim Bridger, or first he kills his son and then he tricks
14:12 Wes Larson? Jim Bridger and says that he saw some arricora coming and that they need to leave. And so they leave.
14:18 Jeff Larson? But Hugh Glass gives him permission to bury him too.
14:22 Wes Larson? Yeah.
14:23 Mike Smith? He blinked.
14:25 Jeff Larson? He closed his eyes.
14:26 Wes Larson? That's the scene that I want to talk about.
14:29 Mike Smith? Do you know what the loophole might have been? If you just close your eyes and don't open it, that's not a blink.
14:34 Jeff Larson? He kind of did that.
14:35 Wes Larson? He kind of does that.
14:36 Jeff Larson? He should have committed to.
14:38 Wes Larson? Yeah. So they, they end up leaving, they leave Hugh Glass behind. And then the rest of the movie is pretty much him, you know, having this miraculous journey to come back to get revenge on these men that killed his son and abandoned him, took his rifle. And you also see these men who are working their way through the mountains that finally make it to this fort. And then we have this conflict meet its resolution at this fort. It's really, it's really well shot. It's beautiful. We see kind of the spiritual journey of Hugh Glass as he's going to. There's some really kind of interesting meditative parts, especially after he meets this other indigenous guy, a Pawnee man,
15:19 Wes Larson? who puts him in a sweat lodge and he gets to have kind of a little vision quest. It's really interesting. He eats some buffalo liver. And then ultimately he does get his revenge on Fitzgerald.
15:29 Jeff Larson? Catches a snowflake on his tongue.
15:31 Wes Larson? Yeah, catches some snowflakes on his tongue.
15:33 Mike Smith? With his new friend.
15:35 Wes Larson? He kind of gets his revenge and then he stops short of killing Fitzgerald at the end and lets the Erykara do, do the rest of the work.
15:42 Mike Smith? I mean, kinda. You push a man in that state into a frozen river. It's like you, you can sign him, but.
15:48 Wes Larson? You know, he got ripped up by a grizzly bear and he still survived.
15:52 Mike Smith? That's true.
15:52 Wes Larson? These guys were tough. They're a different breed. And he, he pretty much forgives Jim Bridger because he knows that, that Bridger didn't really want to leave him or anything like that. And he did it under false pretenses. So the movie's really, in big part, it's about revenge, but it's also about how revenge can really create a life of its own. And for sure, have some really terrible consequences. So it's, it's beautiful.
16:15 Jeff Larson? What terrible consequences did his revenge have?
16:19 Wes Larson? Well, like there, there's the part where he's with the Pawnee guy and he says like revenge is in the creator's hands. And for Hugh, I think he knew that if he like finished Fitzgerald, that he ultimately would become like lesser because of it, that it would like have some psychic damage on him. That's what I read, that it was like not his place to take his life.
16:43 Mike Smith? Yeah, his Pawnee friend, I think he says something like, my heart bleeds, but revenge is in the creator's hands. It's not your place as a stranger in a strange land to take upon the role of judge, jury and executioner. And I think that's kind of the capstone of his spiritual journey at the end, that he decides not to assume that role for himself, just because he knows that's not, it's not his place to do that.
17:08 Jeff Larson? I agree with Mike that. That's not what I think happened. I think he killed Fitzgerald.
17:13 Mike Smith? Me too. I kinda think so too, but yeah, I mean.
17:17 Jeff Larson? It's like if someone's burning alive and then someone shoots him to put him out of their misery. The person, the person who like started the fire to burn him alive is still the person who killed him.
17:27 Mike Smith? Yeah. It's like pushing someone in front of a car and being like, well, the car is what acts technically. The car killed him.
17:35 Wes Larson? But where I disagree is like, so he, he and the captain go to find Fitzgerald to bring him to justice.
17:42 Jeff Larson? Yeah.
17:42 Wes Larson? And then Fitzgerald kills the captain. Hugh sets this trap with like a dead, with the dead captain's body to get Fitzgerald.
17:49 Jeff Larson? Good trap, but he waits too long.
17:52 Wes Larson? Yeah. And then they have this huge fight, but the entire time they're fighting, it's like he's defending himself. You know, like, once he has Fitzgerald and he's like laying there dead on the ground, he doesn't finish the job. I feel like the fight, it's like he's just trying to battle him, but then once he has him, it's not like he executes him. So for me, I think he stops a little short and I like that.
18:16 Mike Smith? He was just like Tom Hanks who walks the person to the electric chair, but doesn't flip, you know, he's not.
18:24 Wes Larson? Yeah, I don't know. We can disagree on this, but for me, I feel like there's, he doesn't take out his revenge on him. I think he realizes that it's, at the end, he realizes he doesn't need to do it.
18:34 Mike Smith? I think there's a lot of layers to explore, especially in the spiritual aspect of the film. And people, I think a lot, common sentiment is that those are kind of the boring stretches of the movie when it gets very dreamlike. And I thought that way too, the first time I saw the movie, but upon reviewing it a couple of times, I think those are the most poignant parts of the film. Once you get past like.
18:57 Jeff Larson? Already done a movie review a few times on this?
19:00 Mike Smith? Several times. Yeah.
19:01 Wes Larson? Well, you even see like at the end, and I don't know if this was the, the actual interpretation or what they intended, but it's how I read it. After he leaves Fitzgerald and the Erykara take his life, his wife's spirit appears to him and kind of leads him away. And to me, it was kind of like that was a signifying that he had made the right decision, that he needed to leave all that behind and move on to whatever was next in his life.
19:26 Mike Smith? So the title of the revenant, the revenant, a revenant is someone who returns from the dead is kind of what that word means. And I think he doesn't complete that specific journey of returning from the dead. I think he's kind of in a purgatory until the very end of the movie when he makes, quote unquote, "the right choice," whether you agree or disagree with what he did at the end. And then that last moment, we can talk about this maybe later in our categories, but he kind of breaks through that fourth wall when he looks right at the camera. And I think that's the moment he breaks out of that purgatory and is a revenant, returns from the dead, kind of thing. Yeah, that's my interpretation, at least.
20:03 Wes Larson? If you've spent much time in the West, you know that every ski town has a brand that the locals are going to wear before the rest of the country catches on. In Jackson Hole, that brand is Stio. Stio is designed and tested in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, right at the base of the Tetons by locals who ski, bike, climb, and fish there every day. I've spent a lot of time in Jackson Hole. I know that they deal with a lot of different weather there, a lot of different things. And so Stio really has to hold up in a ton of different environments. And they've been at it since 2011. Fifteen years in, it's the real gear that locals live in. It's made for the whole mountain day, beyond the summit, the first chair, the school run, dinner out, the dog walk when it's cold outside. It's just made for every moment of mountain life.
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22:14 Wes Larson? Well, and they're non-psychoactive, too. They don't have, they have a little bit of THC, but it's not the kind that makes you trip.
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23:50 Wes Larson? So that's the general synopsis of the movie. There's definitely a lot that we glassed over. Wes, you're the funny one, it turns out. But I wanted to talk a little bit about how this movie came to be because it's actually kind of an interesting story.
24:06 Jeff Larson? Yeah, before we move on completely from the recap, I want to just read my notes I took when I rewatched it yesterday.
24:13 Wes Larson? All right, we were waiting for this.
24:15 Jeff Larson? There was a scene where he's polishing his rifle, which I feel like is a shout out to his real story. I like to see that. And then I think the bear, the bear should have attacked him the once, but then just taken off. And I think the bear makes it then.
24:30 Wes Larson? Oh, yeah, we're gonna talk about that.
24:33 Jeff Larson? Yeah, I really liked how his horse looks. I feel like for like horses in movies. This one's like a top choice for just my favorite looking horse, the polka dot horse.
24:44 Wes Larson? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, that was a hickok's horse, the pony guy.
24:49 Jeff Larson? I think like Shadowfax is pretty overhyped. This horse is cooler.
24:55 Wes Larson? I would agree with that. It takes a lot to get me to note on a horse looking cool. This one did it. Speckled, freckled, whatever you call it.
25:03 Mike Smith? Tell it jumped off that cliff. That was a bad move.
25:05 Jeff Larson? All right, two more. I always fantasize about jumping onto a tree from like a ledge or a cliff.
25:12 Wes Larson? You do.
25:14 Jeff Larson? With that scene, I was just like, oh, yeah, I could do that.
25:19 Wes Larson? You send me that video of the guy doing it and he just gets worked.
25:23 Jeff Larson? But I could send you somewhere they do it too.
25:26 Wes Larson? Okay.
25:28 Jeff Larson? My last one was just like I I watched like a little bit of behind the scenes stuff. And you know, the avalanche that happens right at their final face off?
25:37 Wes Larson? Yeah.
25:38 Jeff Larson? So that was a real avalanche they made.
25:40 Wes Larson? Really?
25:41 Jeff Larson? And they only had chance for like one scene and they like had helicopters drop stuff to create the avalanche.
25:48 Wes Larson? No way.
25:49 Jeff Larson? Yeah, so that is cool.
25:50 Wes Larson? That is cool. Leo kind of looks over at it and is just like huh, uh, just like notes that it's happening and like doesn't move.
25:59 Jeff Larson? It's kind of, I feel like that's like the appropriate response though, because it's like, you're pretty busy.
26:05 Wes Larson? Yeah.
26:06 Jeff Larson? You're about to like fight to your life or like with the guy who killed your son. But it's like, I'm not gonna not watch this for a few seconds.
26:17 Wes Larson? I actually, I'm glad you did this because I think we'll switch up the order a little bit. Let's do our favorite scenes now, since we just talked about the movie. And then I'll talk about the bear scene a bit, and then we'll get into the history behind it. So we already talked about one of my favorites, which is when Fitzgerald, Hugh has been mauled by the bear, he's laying there on the ground, he's dying. These men are like tired of watching him. And so Fitzgerald is like, you know, you're gonna die, you know, you're gonna die. Just blink, and if you blink, that'll be you telling me that you're ready to die and I'll kill you. And there's a scene where like Hugh Glass, played by Leonardo DiCaprio, is trying so hard not to blink. And the sun's like straight in his eyes.
27:02 Wes Larson? Just keep saying like, just blink, just blink. And finally, when he does, he does the longest slow.
27:08 Mike Smith? Did you guys see how long Hugh could go without blinking? Cause I did, I did, I was like.
27:12 Wes Larson? Really?
27:13 Mike Smith? Yeah. He lasted long.
27:15 Wes Larson? He finally does the, the longest, slowest blink. And Fitzgerald's like, alright, good, alright, I'll kill you. I really, I really liked that scene. It's something you would do.
27:27 Mike Smith? Who wants to go next? Tactics.
27:30 Mike Smith? Mine also involves Fitzgerald, actually. My absolute favorite scene is after they abandon Hugh, Bridger and Fitzgerald are sitting around a campfire at night. And Fitzgerald gives this monologue and it's really just, Tom Hardy's amazing in this movie, he's like by far my favorite part. Leo's great too. But he tells Bridger this story about his dad and how he found God one day in a clump of trees. And it turned out it was a squirrel and he shot that son of a bitch and ate it. And then right after he gives this whole speech, he's just like, well, maybe try to close your eyes for the night, Bridger. And then like wanders off and Bridger's just like, what the hell did you do? What? Talking about, but it's just like an awesome, it's a really great scene that is kind of funny,
28:14 Mike Smith? very serious at the same time and very much encapsulates Fitzgerald's outlook on life and religion and God and what it takes to survive kind of thing.
28:23 Wes Larson? Totally. I love that scene. That's a good one. Good, good pick.
28:27 Jeff Larson? No, mine was pretty easily the opening like battle, like invading the camp and they have all the furs out and stuff. Yeah, I, I love battle or action shots that are like single frame, one camera, just following stuff. Yeah.
28:41 Wes Larson? Yeah, the one.
28:41 Jeff Larson? And like I, I kind of hate when it flashes camera, camera, camera, camera, cut, cut.
28:47 Wes Larson? Yeah.
28:47 Jeff Larson? So.
28:48 Mike Smith? Well, that was kind of like Inaritu's move in his previous film Birdman was just, it was supposedly like one long, continuous shot. So maybe try to pull that over to his next film. Good job.
29:00 Wes Larson? Yeah, we should, we should probably say that this was directed by Alejandro G. Iniarit.
29:06 Mike Smith? Iniarit.
29:07 Wes Larson? Iniarito. Yeah. Iniarito. It's like the emphasis is on the A. It's kind of a hard one to say. But Iniarito, who did Birdman, won the Academy Award for that film. He's, he did like Bebel, a few other, yeah, beautiful.
29:22 Mike Smith? Usually someone's floating in them at some point. It's kind of a funny trend he's got.
29:26 Wes Larson? Movies have like an interesting ethereal quality to them, but this is definitely my favorite of his films. I had some other, I had some runners up. I really liked the scene where he crawls down to the water and he drinks some water, Hugh does, and you see it like gurgle out of his neck.
29:44 Mike Smith? Ugh.
29:44 Wes Larson? So then he just like puts gunpowder on it and lights the gunpowder on fire. Which, uh, it's a great tactic.
29:51 Mike Smith? Yeah.
29:52 Wes Larson? I love the scene where Hickok, the Pawnee man, throws him a bison liver. And they're both just like eating bison with blood all over their faces, just like staring at each other.
30:04 Mike Smith? So good.
30:04 Wes Larson? It's such a weird scene, but I really like it. And then I also love when him and Fitzgerald are fighting. There's this point where Hugh gets him with a hammer and chops his fingers off. And Fitzgerald's just kind of like, damn it.
30:18 Mike Smith? Yeah.
30:19 Wes Larson? He's like, oh, man.
30:22 Mike Smith? This is like peak Tom Hardy mumbling years. It's really when it started to go strong.
30:28 Wes Larson? But those are my runners up. Do you guys have any other scenes you want to mention?
30:31 Mike Smith? Yeah, the dream sequence when he wanders into the crumbling church. I thought was just a beautiful moment of symbolism of like, these Christian white men, they're in a new land and their God doesn't really apply in this new land, like the way they're used to it. And he, his son comes up and hugs him and then it flashes out and he's just like holding a tree and weeping, just like completely broken and lost. I thought that was a really powerful scene. And then, yeah, of course, the opening battle sequence is an all-timer, in my opinion.
31:01 Jeff Larson? Yeah, I'd say just in general to like the cinematography, I think that was really impressive. It's just beautiful movie. Holds up even on a really nice TV. A lot of movies I feel like don't, but this one looked really good.
31:17 Mike Smith? Yeah.
31:17 Jeff Larson? Also, just, I think a lot of like cold set movies, they don't do a great job of like actually looking that cold. They just make it sound cold or something.
31:27 Mike Smith? Yeah.
31:28 Jeff Larson? But this one is like, nah, they, like Leo's gotta be freaking an icicle right now. He's just like in a river full of floating ice and I don't know.
31:39 Wes Larson? We'll talk about that some more, but yeah, this was shot by Emmanuel Lubeski. Chivo is his nickname, probably my all-time favorite cinematographer. He shot like Children of Men. He does a lot of Alfonso Curreran's movies and then Inari too, too. So he just, it's a really, really amazing cinematography. He won best cinematographer for this film, which was well deserved, in my opinion. Yeah, so let's talk about that bear scene a little bit. This is one that constantly gets brought up to me. People ask me how authentic it is. And it's one of the few times where I get to say that a Hollywood movie did a really good job with an animal attack scene.
32:19 Wes Larson? I think they really must have consulted some professionals on this one because it's very accurate. I think even the bear's movements are pretty well done. There's a lot to really like about this scene from a biologist's perspective. So basically, he's out hunting and he sees the cubs walk by and immediately picks up his rifle. He knows, you know, those are grizzly cubs. And then he hears mom behind him. He turns around just to see her drop down from a stand and she's running at him. And that is typical. Often a grizzly bear will stand up to kind of see what it's looking at to get a better viewpoint. And then it drops down and charges. And he barely has time to kind of swing his rifle in her direction. She charges in, starts mauling him.
33:03 Wes Larson? And this would be a defensive, kind of neutralizing a threat type of mauling. Cause it's a female with cubs. And that's kind of what we see. She just rips into him and bites him as much as possible in a really short amount of time. Stomps on him. It's just very indicative of a bear that is trying to just make sure that this threatening thing isn't going to get back up. And she does it. She just mauls the shit out of him for like 10 seconds, 20 seconds, and then backs off. And at this point, had he probably just stayed completely still? I think there's a very good chance if this, if this were a real life thing, that that bear gathers their cubs and moves out of the area.
33:46 Wes Larson? But he does what probably a lot of people would have done back in the 1800s if they had a rifle and they'd just been mauled by a bear. He sees his rifle and he crawls toward it. And when he does that, Jeff, what happens?
33:58 Jeff Larson? The bear sees that he's still a threat and goes back to neutralize that threat.
34:03 Wes Larson? Yeah, exactly. She's kind of already approaching him. In my mind, again, if this were a real bear and a real incident, that approach was probably just her checking to make sure that he's like, you know, staying put. But when she sees him moving and then going for his rifle, she picks that up. And then as he shoots, obviously that enrages her. And then he really gets punished at that point. The second mauling is a lot worse than the first. I think in the movie, had he just stayed still, he probably would have walked away from this and just had like, been able to stay with this group, but just had some really bad cuts and stuff.
34:40 Jeff Larson? And like, even though it's a Hollywood movie and not, didn't actually happen. I think it's still
34:46 Wes Larson? Yeah.
34:47 Jeff Larson? Well, this scene that we watched.
34:49 Wes Larson? This exact mauling, right? Not a real bear. Yeah.
34:52 Jeff Larson? But, uh, what I'm saying is like, he shoots the bear pretty point blank.
34:58 Wes Larson? Yeah.
34:58 Jeff Larson? Exactly where he wants to shoot it. And that doesn't stop the attack. And it shows you very realistically, it almost would look, would look way more fake if the bear just fell over instantly after that shot.
35:13 Wes Larson? Right.
35:13 Jeff Larson? You know? And it's like, oh no, that makes sense. Like, even though it's like, they made that scene, it still kind of shows like, if that was bear spray, that bear might've just turned around, but this is.
35:25 Wes Larson? It probably didn't even feel it, you know? Cause like, that's a little metal ball.
35:29 Jeff Larson? Oh, really?
35:30 Wes Larson? That's being shot by gun.
35:31 Jeff Larson? Dominic Toretto of Grizzly Bears right there?
35:34 Wes Larson? Exactly. It just flinches. Uh, no, but seriously, like, it's already, you know, bears have that kind of fear response too. It's in full fight mode. A little metal ball entering it might not even register if it's like, knowing that it has to protect its cubs and whatnot. So they struggle, the bear rips them up a lot more, manages to flip them over, rips them up even more. And then he grabs his knife and just starts stabbing the bear at the end of the mauling. They tumble down a cliff and the bear dies on top of him. So again, I thought it's very accurate in portraying a bear that's trying to neutralize a threat. So a female grizzly protecting her cubs, I think it shows how futile it is if you
36:17 Wes Larson? just have a gun, because often you don't even have time to swing that gun around to get a good shot. And how like bear spray, like Jeff just mentioned, would work a lot better because it just shoots a big cloud at it and shuts down all its senses. Obviously he didn't have that option, but it also shows how if you're being mauled by a bear that's again, like in defense mode, often just curling up into a ball, going in the fetal position and staying still, if you don't have a deterrent, is the best case scenario, because that bear is very likely going to leave you alone. There are times where they do that and then they do decide to feed. So say you're being mauled by that bear and then it starts to rip off chunks of you and eat it, then you need to do something else. But until that point.
37:01 Wes Larson? You just want to go into fetal position, protect your vitals and hope that it decides to leave you alone if you don't have a deterrent. The thing that I think, the only thing that I felt like they got wrong to me were the vocalizations and that's common for movies. There's a lot of kind of grunting and roaring that this bear does and that's not common. They do, they do like huff and make some grunting noises, but it roars and whatnot. And generally people that have been attacked by grizzly bears describe how it's very quiet. They can hear the bear breathing and stuff, but it's not like roaring at them and getting really mad like that. So that was the one thing.
37:39 Jeff Larson? People who get attacked always comment about how bad the bear's breath is. So I would have had Leo been like, wow, your breath smells bad or like plug his nose.
37:50 Wes Larson? Yeah. A lot more realistic. Yeah, he probably did that and then your E2 was just like, no, we're cutting that.
37:57 Jeff Larson? No, to your credit of that, of what you're saying, when Shane and Chloe came on, like that was his first reference was the revenant, right? That's like, kind of how he was like explaining his story is like, if you've seen the revenant is kind of like that. So yeah, I think they really did just kind of nail that scene.
38:18 Wes Larson? They did a great job. Yeah, I really liked it. Yes, really the vocalizations, they also shows one of the cubs kind of climbing a tree and that's not unheard of for a grizzly cub, but more likely it would be kind of trying to run away and join its mom and stuff.
38:31 Jeff Larson? Okay.
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41:49 Jeff Larson? I have one more bear question. Do you think bears were more aggressive in his time?
41:54 Wes Larson? No, I don't. I think they're probably a little more reactive. I think in that time.
42:00 Jeff Larson? Kind of learned to not view humans as food more recently?
42:05 Wes Larson? It's not food. It's more like whether or not we're a threat. So like habituated bears, I think are more used to people and maybe less prone to be reactive to them. But a bear like this.
42:16 Jeff Larson? But that's like now, right? Because I'm saying back then, didn't they maybe view us as food more often?
42:21 Wes Larson? No, I think I think back then they still had the same reaction to something that was unknown, which is it's not worth the risk. They know what what food is. They know what they should be using as food. You know, we you talked about this a little bit in Mike's Hugh Glass episode, and I don't necessarily agree that they were like more dangerous back then because they probably ran away a lot more than they even do now. And you don't have food condition bears, you don't have bears that are like being stressed out by human populations. So I don't I don't really know. It's impossible for me to say if they were more dangerous back then or now. But I think this bear with cubs presented with maybe something that she's never seen before is probably just going to want to get out of there as fast as possible.
43:06 Wes Larson? So as far as this movie's history is concerned, there was a book in 2001. It was written by Michael Punky or Puky or something like that. And he actually hadn't quite written it yet. The manuscript was out in 2001. When a producer picked it up, pretty much said, I want the rights to this book. Once it's published, it was published the following year.
43:28 Jeff Larson? Like Mike, producer like Mike.
43:31 Wes Larson? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. First person they hired for the film was the sound guy, the most important guy.
43:39 Wes Larson? Before the book was even published, the movie rights were bought and the film actually changed hands a number of times. And it was pretty interesting, the people that were connected to this movie at one point or another.
43:49 Mike Smith? Did you see the first director they had on slate? It's incredible what could have been. I mean, this movie is great, but go, go for it.
43:56 Wes Larson? Do you want to say? No, you say who it was.
43:58 Mike Smith? So originally it was supposed to be directed by Park Chan Wook, the old boy guy, the vengeance lady vengeance.
44:05 Wes Larson? And Handmaiden.
44:06 Mike Smith? Oh, man, that would have been incredible. And the, the lead role instead of Leo is going to be Samuel L. Jackson. Which is just unbelievable. Just an amazing inspired casting decision.
44:18 Jeff Larson? He kinda got something similar with hateful eight.
44:21 Mike Smith? Yeah, a little bit.
44:23 Jeff Larson? Where he's like out in the cold snowy environment, trying to get some revenge.
44:28 Mike Smith? But man, just imagine like a scene with Samuel L. Jackson and Tom Hardy. Hardy's just like doing his mumbling thing and Jackson's like, English, do you speak it?
44:38 Wes Larson? It would have been a very different movie. I could see it being like very violent, very kind of hyper stylized. But I would have loved to see that movie. That would have been a great one. And the other director they had attached to, I would have been really excited to see it was John Hillcoat. Who directed The Proposition, which is one of my favorite Western movies. And then he also directed The Road. He's done some other movies that are really good. And he had Christian Bale attached to star.
45:05 Mike Smith? Also would have been good.
45:06 Wes Larson? Yeah, but ultimately those all got shelved and Alejandro Inarritu picked it up in 2011.
45:13 Wes Larson? And he immediately wanted both Leonardo DiCaprio and Sean Penn in the starring roles. And I'm not really sure how that changed to Tom Hardy, but for whatever reason, Sean Penn never was attached and it ended up being Tom Hardy. He paused development on this film and he made Birdman, which won him an Oscar for best director and best picture. And then he started working on The Revenant. They started shooting in October 2014 and they shot until August 2015. And he and the cinematographer, Chivo, really wanted to use natural light, which ended up being amazing. Like, it's so beautiful, but they only had often like 90 minutes to shoot in a given day.
45:54 Mike Smith? Unreal.
45:55 Wes Larson? So they would pretty much rehearse and do makeup and everything the entire day. And then they would shoot for 90 minutes. And if they didn't get it, they would have to do the same scene the next day. So it was really
46:05 Mike Smith? Oh, that's cool.
46:06 Wes Larson? Yeah, taxing and not an easy process. A lot of people quit during the making of this movie. And there's a great quote from Alejandro where he just said, yeah, I'm paraphrasing, but he's like, if you're conducting an orchestra and one of the violins isn't doing a good job, you have to replace them. And I really, I like that approach to it. So it took so long to shoot this that Tom Hardy had to drop out of Suicide Squad, which is probably a great move for him.
46:32 Mike Smith? First, which one? The first one.
46:33 Wes Larson? The first one.
46:34 Mike Smith? Okay.
46:35 Wes Larson? And Alejandro was going through some personal struggles when they were making this and he really wanted to challenge himself in nature. So he decided they're going to make the film in real locations in really harsh conditions. And
46:48 Mike Smith? And in chronological order.
46:50 Wes Larson? Yeah.
46:50 Mike Smith? Which is why you don't do that, especially in this kind of setting.
46:54 Wes Larson? So he kind of took everyone with him on his personal journey to challenge himself, which ended up being really challenging.
47:00 Mike Smith? Leo is always in interviews, he's just like, this is the hardest thing any of us have ever done. And like, that was
47:06 Wes Larson? Yeah.
47:06 Mike Smith? prevailing sentiment from everybody involved.
47:09 Wes Larson? There's a great quote for him where he says, I can name 30 or 40 sequences that were some of the most difficult things I've ever had to do. Whether it's going in and out of frozen rivers or sleeping in animal carcasses, or what I ate on set, I was enduring freezing cold and possible hypothermia constantly. And you see it in his performance, like you see his discomfort. He ate that bison liver. He said it was like a membrane that you had to get through and then it exploded in your mouth. And it was just disgusting.
47:38 Jeff Larson? I feel like that gag at the first bite might have been like
47:42 Wes Larson? Real.
47:42 Jeff Larson? Real.
47:43 Wes Larson? Yeah.
47:43 Jeff Larson? It was like air, air gorn. Kicking the helmet.
47:47 Wes Larson? Wasn't even acting. Isn't, I think Leo is, or was at the time a vegetarian or maybe vegan vegetarian or vegan or something.
47:55 Jeff Larson? Vegetarian.
47:56 Wes Larson? Yeah. Yeah, that's, that was probably tough for him.
47:59 Jeff Larson? I think he might have ate a fish.
48:01 Wes Larson? The fish, the real fish.
48:02 Jeff Larson? Pretty real.
48:03 Wes Larson? Yeah. That, that scene made me think like, there's some real parallels to the Gollum story here, where he's eating a raw fish. And then he's also, his precious was stolen from him and he's trying to get his precious back. So.
48:18 Jeff Larson? The gun.
48:18 Wes Larson? Made me think of Gollum.
48:19 Jeff Larson? That's a good point.
48:20 Wes Larson? Yeah, nice gun. So that's obviously one of the big liberties that Inaritu took with this movie. It's that he introduced the character of Hawk, which was Douglas's son in the film. Not necessarily historically accurate. We don't know if he had a son or not, but the son is killed and that's kind of his main fuel for revenge. And Inaritu pretty much said, yeah, I didn't think a gun would be enough to really pull people into this story.
48:49 Jeff Larson? It's a smart move, but the gun would have been like, kind of funny.
48:53 Wes Larson? Cause in the real story, like Mike taught us last week, he really loved his gun. And that was part of the thing that he was most upset about was that they took his gun.
49:00 Jeff Larson? He like wanted to kill Fitzgerald until Fitzgerald gave him his gun.
49:05 Wes Larson? Right.
49:05 Jeff Larson? I guess I'm over it now.
49:08 Wes Larson? So I think it's a good addition, but definitely something that was created for the film. They filmed in Alberta, British Columbia, Montana, up at Cooney Falls and Argentina. And they had to film in Argentina because it was an unseasonably warm winter in Canada. And they had some snow scenes they wanted to film, especially like the final fight. They wanted it to be in the snow. So they had to go all the way to Patagonia to find some snow to film that. When it was released, it was a huge hit. It went on to make a worldwide total of $533 million. And people think it probably made-
49:43 Jeff Larson? I didn't realize it was that big.
49:44 Wes Larson? Yeah, it was really big.
49:46 Mike Smith? For like not an IP movie or like a sequel or anything. I just didn't, I didn't expect that when I was looking at the numbers.
49:52 Jeff Larson? They should have done some sequels.
49:57 Wes Larson? Jim Bridger's Revenge.
50:00 Jeff Larson? He's like, actually, that, that kid did leave me. What, what's his name?
50:07 Mike Smith? Or a prequel for back when he was a pirate.
50:09 Wes Larson? Or we see the bear wake up and the bear's like recovering from its injuries and trying to get revenge on him.
50:16 Mike Smith? Also a revenant.
50:17 Wes Larson? Critical reception was also relatively really good. It won some huge awards. Inaritu won best director. Chivo, the cinematographer, won best cinematographer. And then most notably, Leonardo DiCaprio, who'd been nominated many times and never won, finally won best actor. Well deserved.
50:34 Jeff Larson? Yeah, the Oscar. I don't know. I don't know why it's such a big deal because like we've, what, we've been podcast four years. We won best road trip podcast and best podcast. And it's like, sure, you know.
50:48 Mike Smith? Sure. Yeah, it's true.
50:49 Jeff Larson? But Leo was like, oh, sweet. I finally won.
50:52 Wes Larson? He really wanted it. Yeah. I did really quickly also want to talk about some of the historical accuracy behind the film. I mentioned the sun not necessarily having existed. Also, no one actually died. He didn't go and get revenge like Jeff just mentioned when he finally did meet up with Fitzgerald. He got his rifle back and essentially forgave him. One thing that's kind of a gripe for me is that this wasn't necessarily filmed in the right terrain. And we talked about this in last week's episode. The place where this actually happened was out in more of the prairie, the rolling hills of the Dakotas, with some spotted forest and stuff, but on the huge Missouri River, they shot it in the Rocky Mountains. It definitely makes it feel a lot.
51:35 Mike Smith? Colder and worse, and I don't blame them for shooting it there. But where he was actually mauled is much more open country. It would have been a little bit easier to move through. That's so interesting because would you classify them back then even as almost a plains animal? It seems kind of like they were out on the plains, just like a bison. They were. Yeah. Yeah, that's so, it's so strange to think of them just kind of wandering Yeah. out in the open like. In the lower 48, we very much have pushed them into the mountains. They used to be much more out in the plains. That's why they have that hump. It's for digging. Like this is an animal that mostly used to dig for a lot of its food. And they did really well out on the edges of the mountains in the plains. So they weren't like way out in the plains, but they were out in the plains.
52:20 Mike Smith? So sure.
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52:52 Mike Smith? This episode is brought to you by Element. So there's been a pretty big trend in the health industry lately. A lot of people get into fasting or intermittent fasting even. I've played around with it and I've actually found it to be pretty effective. But too many people neglect electrolytes while they're fasting. It makes you feel tired and crampy and you get pretty weak during the fast I've noticed. And this usually gets blamed on the lack of food. And that's certainly a part of it. Of course, fasting is going to cause some hunger, but it shouldn't cause dizziness, weakness, fatigue, or cramps. These are often symptoms of an electrolyte deficiency. Diet is your main source of electrolytes and during a fast, you're not consuming anything, of course, and not replenishing those stores. You also end up excreting more sodium in a fasted state. So fewer electrolytes are coming in during a fast and more are going out, which makes
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54:22 Wes Larson? A couple more little things. There's a part where you see this huge stack of bison skulls behind him, and that actually hadn't happened yet. The big westward expansion hadn't happened yet at the time of Hugh Glass, so there hadn't been this mass slaughter of bison yet.
54:38 Jeff Larson? They put a lot of time and effort in the film into showing the Native American experience with it.
54:45 Wes Larson? Yep. So I watched a documentary and it was called A World Unseen. And most of it, it was about the making of this movie, but most of it was about these indigenous voices and kind of their feelings around current things that are happening to a lot of tribes and, you know, the, obviously, like the genocide of Native Americans back in these times. And it was really interesting. And they did put a lot of time in this movie into trying to get those voices as correct and as right as possible. There's a really good scene in that documentary where the kid who plays Hawk is like talking with some of his community members and saying like, "I want this to be a movie that gets Native people right."
55:29 Wes Larson? And I know a lot of the actors that were native in this movie really cared about that. And they did a great job with the language consultants for the Rikara and the Pawnee portions. Apparently there is one voiceover in this movie where there's like a poem being read. And it's read in Inupiaq, which is a language of of up in like the Alaskan Arctic. So I don't know how that made the final cut. But um, I couldn't pick it out, obviously, because I don't speak any of these languages. But that's something I read online. So that's maybe the one little thing. And I, you know, I don't want to say they like did a perfect job on indigenous representation. But I do think as far as that goes in Hollywood, this seems like one of the better, kind of more nuanced and fair representations.
56:14 Mike Smith? That's great.
56:15 Wes Larson? Uh, one other gripe for me.
56:17 Mike Smith? Oh dude, you're a negative Nellie dude. You don't like this movie.
56:21 Wes Larson? No, I love this movie. Throughout it, you do see the seasons like change pretty drastically from scene to scene. Like the scene where he floats down the river, you can see like green foliage in the trees and stuff. And then suddenly he's back in winter and that throws me off.
56:37 Mike Smith? It's probably because they were filming in sequential order over the course of like two years with 90 minutes of film time a day. That's crazy. Come on, Ian, you're you too.
56:45 Wes Larson? Yeah.
56:46 Mike Smith? You made a masterpiece in a way, so we can forgive you. Wes maybe maybe doesn't.
56:51 Jeff Larson? Does it bug you?
56:51 Mike Smith? I do.
56:52 Jeff Larson? How small the Cubs are?
56:53 Wes Larson? No, that's about right.
56:54 Jeff Larson? Cause it's winter.
56:56 Wes Larson? Yeah, for Cubs of the Year in the fall, that's about what they would be. And you know, they never like say if it's the end of winter or the start of winter. It kind of leaves that a little unclear to me. To me, it kind of feels like spring is right around the corner for most of this movie. But I don't know. Again, I get really thrown off by the seasons in this movie. It's kind of tricky. All right. You guys got anything else you want to say? You got, do either of you have any gripes?
57:21 Mike Smith? I do have one tiny gripe. I think it's the first line Tom Hardy delivers at the very beginning of the movie. And you can hear his British accent poke through on one word. And I was like, come on. It's the first line, but other than that, he does, he's the best part of this movie as far as I'm concerned. So.
57:39 Wes Larson? Okay. So for this one, we decided for our categories, we were each going to pick three and not really tell each other what we're doing. Thought it would be kind of fun for a movie review. So who wants to go first? First category?
57:52 Jeff Larson? So as Wes mentioned, this was Leo's long awaited Oscar. I'm wondering if you take out the competition for each year, how many of his performances would you put ahead of the rest?
58:05 Wes Larson? Yeah, this matches up really well with one of my categories. So I like that you did this. We can kind of do two birds with one stone here. So just kind of like you're saying, what's his best performances?
58:15 Jeff Larson? Like, how many of his performances would you put ahead of his Oscar performance?
58:20 Wes Larson? For me, it's just one.
58:22 Jeff Larson? Really?
58:23 Wes Larson? And it would be Killers of the Flower Moon. I think, I think he's so good in that movie. His role is like a guy who kind of is intellectually like pretty slow, but he's also really devious. And I just think he nails it like he's so good in that. So I think that's his best performance ever. It's not my favorite movie of his, but it's my favorite performance. And then I do The Revenant, and then I do Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Those are my top three performances.
58:49 Mike Smith? I think this is my favorite performance of his. I think this is his best one. And I've toyed around. I've, I've had like a really stupid contrarian opinion at times like Leo's actually not that good of an actor. That's me being stupid. He's like, he's a good act. He's a great actor even at times. I think this role really suits what he's good at most, though, being just like an incredibly charismatic screen presence rather than like a deliverer of lines. I've never been quite so captivated or transported by a performance of his like I was in this one. I think it was just like a perfect role for what he's best at. So zero, I guess, to your question?
59:31 Jeff Larson? I think he like, did the most shit for this one, but I wouldn't, I don't know. I definitely would put Once Upon a Time in Hollywood over it. But that's kind of just like, my perfect movie. It's not my favorite movie, but it's like Tarantino's my favorite director. Brad Pitt and Leonardo DiCaprio are my two favorite actors. And then Wolf of Wall Street is like definitely above it for me. I think Wolf of Wall Street is just incredible. Titanic, I just think, I don't know.
1:00:04 Wes Larson? No, come on.
1:00:06 Mike Smith? I do like.
1:00:07 Jeff Larson? That was his first nomination, right?
1:00:09 Mike Smith? Yeah.
1:00:10 Jeff Larson? He was nominated for that.
1:00:11 Mike Smith? Yeah, and thankfully to the Academy's credit did not win. I think it's a funny narrative at the time that people are like, Leo's just getting the Oscar because he went through hell and he did all this dangerous and crazy stuff. And it's like, yeah, I can see why people would think he would deserve it for those reasons. But if that were the case, like, shouldn't Jackass have like a hundred Oscars? If that's the criteria we're judging on. My favorite thing about Leo is just his face and his facial expressions. And there's so many tight shots on him and you get exactly what he's feeling and trying to communicate. Like, he literally can't talk for long stretches of this movie because of his throat. So, I don't know, I'm a weird one. I'm in the minority that's not like, I don't worship every movie that he's ever made,
1:00:55 Mike Smith? but I do think he's, he's a quality actor. I really do.
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1:01:30 Wes Larson? Tooth and Claw is brought to you by Hungry Root. When it comes to grocery shopping and meal planning, I have a bit of a problem. And for me, it's that I often buy way more food than I actually need and it ends up going bad. And I often really don't like going out and grocery shopping. It just feels like a big task to me and I would much rather just have that simplified. So for me, I really like Hungry Root. And for all the different services that provide a meal service, for me, it's my favorite because it's like your own personal shopper and nutritionist all wrapped into one. They take care of the weekly grocery shopping. They recommend healthy groceries and meals tailored to your taste, nutrition preferences, and health goals. For me, it's great because if I go to the grocery
1:02:12 Wes Larson? store, I find myself like picking out little treats that are little rewards to myself. And I pick out way too many and I end up having them in my pantry and I eat them all. But on Hungry Root, I kind of feel energized to pick out healthier stuff. They have really good, healthy options to pick out and it forces me to eat those things instead of the typical treats that I would have. They make it easy to eat high-quality nutritious food and achieve any diet or health goals from anti-inflammatory to gut-friendly, gluten-free, dairy-free, high-protein, and more.
1:02:44 Mike Smith? The little survey they have you fill out, there's like a million options and it'll get you exactly what you want. Even if you don't know going into it what you want, they'll give you-
1:02:52 Wes Larson? Yeah, it's like a food algorithm almost.
1:02:54 Mike Smith? It's so cool. Yeah.
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1:03:12 Mike Smith? Impossible.
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1:03:49 Mike Smith? Okay. We talked about the cinematography a little bit already. I want to know what percentage split you would give between the wilderness and the land that was shot? Like what percentage of it was dangerous to your eye? And what percentage of it was beautiful to your eye? So like, what's the ratio between those two things? Cause I was watching it and I was like, it's almost perfectly down the middle for me of looking like the most beautiful land I've ever seen, but also like the most harsh and unforgiving landscape to have to try to live through. I just thought that was like such an interesting dynamic that I'm sure was on purpose, but.
1:04:25 Wes Larson? They do such a good job of making it look cold and terrible and dirty and just awful. And I think for me, that's how the, like, I live in the Rockies. You guys live in the Rockies. When you're out in the mountains in winter and like early spring and stuff, they feel much more unforgiving than they do in summer. Like it's not a warm meadow that you just want to lay down in. It feels kind of brutal and cold. And for me, that's what he did the best. The cinematographer, Chivo, in this is it doesn't feel welcoming at all to me at all. Like I would, I would say it's like an 80, 20 split for me of unforgiving and cold to beautiful. It makes me feel like I just want to be in my warm house with a blanket when I watch this movie.
1:05:09 Jeff Larson? I thought it is incredibly beautiful, so I'm going to go a hundred percent on the beautiful side.
1:05:14 Wes Larson? Okay.
1:05:16 Jeff Larson? It's actually way more challenging to me to live in the city, you know? That's, I want the challenge though, so I live in a city. I put myself somewhere with a heater and stuff instead of using a fire. But like, if I took the easy way out, I'd be out in the Montana wilderness right now, just living.
1:05:35 Wes Larson? Sleeping in a fish.
1:05:36 Mike Smith? Sleeping in a horror carcass.
1:05:38 Jeff Larson? Yeah.
1:05:40 Wes Larson? All right.
1:05:40 Jeff Larson? That's the easy way out for me.
1:05:42 Mike Smith? Easy way out of like, what, life?
1:05:46 Wes Larson? Easy way out of.
1:05:47 Mike Smith? Is that what we're looking for?
1:05:47 Wes Larson? Dying immediately.
1:05:50 Mike Smith? Well, I, it just, it was such a cool microcosm. Like the bear attack was a microcosm for the rest of the movie. Cause it's just this wonderful, magnificent thing to gaze upon. But if you're actually subjected to it, it's, you're going to die probably, unless you're Hugh. So I was, I don't know, I'm, I'm at like a 70, 30 split, I think. 70 dangerous, 30% beautiful.
1:06:14 Jeff Larson? Literally the only person who was exposed to that exact bear didn't die.
1:06:20 Wes Larson? That's true. I that's I'll have to rethink my opinions.
1:06:25 Mike Smith? There's one scene in this where he's on the side of
1:06:27 Wes Larson? That bears it.
1:06:28 Mike Smith? Ineffect.
1:06:29 Wes Larson? He's on the side of the river and there's like a big, flat rock and you see him laying on it and it looks kind of warm and he's dry. And I just, I felt this surge of comfort for him in that one moment. It's right before the Erycara show up and he has to jump in the river and leave. But for a second, he seems like he's dry and comfortable. And to me,
1:06:51 Mike Smith? I have one that's kind of like that.
1:06:53 Wes Larson? The entire film feels like it's just cold and miserable.
1:06:56 Mike Smith? Okay.
1:06:56 Wes Larson? Yeah.
1:06:57 Mike Smith? All right. Save it then.
1:06:58 Jeff Larson? Let me do one because I have one that kind of goes off of that.
1:07:01 Mike Smith? Let's do it.
1:07:02 Jeff Larson? I have one that I did like a two parter. So I did, is this the most is my category? And I said, is this the most satisfying hot bath slash shower you've seen in like a movie? Cause to me, that's what I felt when he first had like the hot water bath. I was just like, I felt so good for him.
1:07:24 Mike Smith? Really?
1:07:25 Jeff Larson? Cause it's just like, oh man, that has to feel incredible after like freezing slept on in a horse. So he probably smells awful and it's just frozen and like, I don't know. So to me, like that bath scene did that for me, Wes. He's finally in safety too, I think was a component of it.
1:07:46 Mike Smith? Yeah.
1:07:46 Jeff Larson? Is there a movie I can think of where there's a shower bath where you're just like, that.
1:07:53 Wes Larson? One that, one that comes close to me is in Casino Royale where they barely escaped getting killed in like the hotel, Daniel Craig and Eva, and Eva Green. And then she goes in the, in the shower, just like fully clothed and turns it on. And he goes and both sit down in the shower and cry. And it just seemed like so comforting that they're just in their clothes, like crying in the shower together. He doesn't cry, but she does. But yeah, I would agree with you. This off the top of my head, this is like the most kind of comforting bath or shower scene.
1:08:26 Mike Smith? There's a scene in The Witcher three, the video game Witcher three, where Geralt's in a big bathtub, bath basin thing. He's looking pretty comfy in there. But this like he wasn't quite as cold as Leo was in this or Hugh, I guess I should say. So this is the one I was, I had the same reaction as you, Jeff, where I was just like so relieved for him. I just never feel that way when I see someone taking a bath.
1:08:51 Jeff Larson? There's in Happy Gilmore where his caddy is like homeless and he takes a bath in the pond.
1:08:56 Mike Smith? That's right.
1:08:59 Wes Larson? The worst thing you've ever had to do for a job, because Leonardo had to do some pretty crazy and gross things for this job. What immediately jumped to my head was cutting up rotten meat for, for bear traps. It was awful, just like the grossest meat that you could ever imagine. But I think the worst one actually was right after I graduated high school, I worked at this mini storage compound here in Missoula. And there's like a two week stretch where the owner just wanted me to pull up his storm drains and like climb down in and clean them out because they were like six feet deep. And I had, I was like waist deep and just muck and dead animals and stuff and just
1:09:40 Wes Larson? cleaning them out with like a shovel. And it was the worst. And I did that for like two weeks straight. And I was getting paid like 525 an hour, which was minimum wage at the time. No, it was more, I think he paid me like seven bucks an hour. And it was miserable. That was probably the worst thing I've ever had to do for a job. Yeah.
1:09:58 Mike Smith? I think mine's involves dead animals too. When I worked on a golf course, we got tasked to go out with little BB guns and shoot rodents that were running around. And I just like whether, I don't know, maybe it was even to the environment's benefit that we got rid of these. But every time I pulled the trigger and got one, I just felt devastated. I'm not a, I'm just not a killer. I'm not a hunter. I don't have it in me.
1:10:20 Wes Larson? I don't like killing stuff.
1:10:21 Mike Smith? It was really, really hard for me. And we were paired up out there. So I couldn't just like slack off because the other guy with me would tell on me and stuff.
1:10:30 Jeff Larson? I'm in like a five day ongoing internet beef on this one random hunter's Instagram where he just shot like a ground squirrel in Mexico for no reason on a cliff.
1:10:43 Wes Larson? Yeah.
1:10:43 Jeff Larson? And I like commented something like.
1:10:45 Wes Larson? That make you feel big?
1:10:47 Jeff Larson? Yeah. Like his whole thing was just, I couldn't resist doing this. I was like, you couldn't resist killing an animal for no reason. And now it's just been like five days of his followers like chirping at me and me like. I told one of them that if they opened up their skull, beams would spill out and I thought it was pretty funny.
1:11:10 Mike Smith? That's amazing. Jeff, yours has got to be when you were in like the scamming call center, right? That's, that's, that's, in my opinion, that's your worst job.
1:11:19 Jeff Larson? They like scammed me into taking that job at leaving Vivin. Well, Vivin's kind of a scam now too, but yeah, they like told me it's just like an up and coming sales job and all I did was like read a script that lies to people to get them to go to a dealership.
1:11:37 Mike Smith? Yeah.
1:11:38 Jeff Larson? Which is like my least favorite people and I was one of them.
1:11:41 Mike Smith? All right. Mike, you want to go next? Yeah, I do. Besides the two main actors, Leo and Tom, what like standout performance was there? Performance outside of those two that stood out the most to you? I think this movie is full of very small part characters, but they are all like really, really good at what they're doing.
1:12:01 Wes Larson? For me, it's his son, Hawk.
1:12:03 Mike Smith? Yeah.
1:12:03 Wes Larson? Yeah, Hawk and Forrest, good luck. From all I know, like he was kind of plucked out of somewhat general obscurity and thrown into this role. And I think he just does an amazing job. You can feel his connection with his dad, that they really care about each other. And I think for a movie about like frontiersmen and stuff, that's hard to do because they're such like rough and tough people, but you really feel it in this one. And I think that's in large part due to his acting.
1:12:31 Mike Smith? In that scene I brought up earlier, he has the dream sequence when they're both in the crumbling church together. He does this kind of sideways shuffle towards him through the water. It was just like a really interesting choice. I don't know if he was directed to do that, or is that's just like how he decided to move. But I don't know, he just, he seemed like so ethereal and just otherworldly. I thought he, I think that's a great, great pick for that.
1:12:56 Wes Larson? He's really good in How to Blow Up a Pipeline 2, which is a movie that I really recommend. He's great in that movie.
1:13:01 Jeff Larson? I like the native person who is eating the bison. He's a pani, right? Pani in the
1:13:08 Mike Smith? Elk dog or no, I forget what
1:13:10 Wes Larson? No, his name is Hickok.
1:13:12 Mike Smith? Hickok, that's right.
1:13:13 Wes Larson? Yeah, that's
1:13:13 Mike Smith? Elk dog's the other guy.
1:13:15 Jeff Larson? I don't know, his face even more than Leo's is the most memorable face of the movie to me. That scene where they're catching snowflakes, I remember in the preview. I don't know why, but it's just like, that scene just looks like so friendly and nice. And I want to see this movie.
1:13:30 Wes Larson? It's like such a nice little touch of levity in such an intense dark movie.
1:13:34 Jeff Larson? Yeah. But it's like, this dude was like extremely close to just killing him when they first met.
1:13:40 Wes Larson? Right.
1:13:40 Jeff Larson? Too. And now they're just like sticking their tongues out to catch.
1:13:45 Mike Smith? Dude.
1:13:46 Wes Larson? The actor's name is Arthur Red Cloud.
1:13:48 Mike Smith? Red Cloud. Yeah. He was a homie. He was like building the little shack for him to sleep in during like that crazy snowstorm. Man, I love that guy. I'm going to pick Will Poulter. He's the guy that played Bridger. He, he played that part perfectly. I haven't.
1:14:04 Wes Larson? He's always good.
1:14:05 Mike Smith? He, he is. He's got like a really distinct face and he just
1:14:09 Wes Larson? His eyebrows.
1:14:09 Mike Smith? For all it's worth. And he was kind of like a pathetic young man, but also like battling to hold to his convictions at the same time. I don't know. I thought he pulled it off really, really well.
1:14:21 Jeff Larson? He's like in the Meet the Millers movie, his face when he's like, you guys are getting paid.
1:14:27 Mike Smith? You guys are getting
1:14:27 Jeff Larson? The exact same faces when Glass shows up again, he's like.
1:14:33 Wes Larson? He was attached to Rings of Power for a long time and backed out. That's probably the right move.
1:14:38 Mike Smith? Wise beyond his years.
1:14:41 Jeff Larson? Yeah, now he's an Avenger.
1:14:43 Mike Smith? Oh, that's right.
1:14:44 Wes Larson? You have.
1:14:45 Jeff Larson? Yeah. Let me finish my last one because I didn't finish it.
1:14:48 Wes Larson? Yeah.
1:14:48 Jeff Larson? Is this the most and I have deserved revenge in a movie? So like kill the guy's son in front of him, manipulate the blinking thing, bury him alive, run away.
1:15:00 Wes Larson? I think killing his son was like by far his worst crime. In the real story, I don't blame them for leaving him necessarily.
1:15:06 Jeff Larson? Oh no, I'm doing move.
1:15:07 Mike Smith? The movie only.
1:15:08 Wes Larson? Yeah, I know, I know. But I'm saying like in the real movie and the real story, all they did was leave him essentially and take his rifle.
1:15:14 Mike Smith? Right.
1:15:14 Wes Larson? But I think had he not killed his son, it's pretty much the same thing. Like he's going to die. They can't carry him over the mountains. They don't want to be too far behind their company. So I personally don't think, I think I can think of a lot more revenge movies that the villain's much more deserving.
1:15:32 Jeff Larson? You're
1:15:32 Wes Larson? Where they like
1:15:33 Jeff Larson? You can't just take out him killing his son in front of him. I don't know.
1:15:37 Wes Larson? No, no, I'm not saying that. Like, that's obviously, I'm saying then the that that's his worst crime.
1:15:42 Jeff Larson? Of why I'm saying.
1:15:42 Wes Larson? That's by far his worst crime.
1:15:44 Jeff Larson? Which is pretty bad.
1:15:46 Wes Larson? Yeah, but there's movies where they do that, plus like much worse to someone that needs to get revenge. Old boy.
1:15:54 Mike Smith? Oh, man. Holy cow. That might, I think he might be right in that one.
1:15:58 Wes Larson? That's one off the top of my head.
1:15:59 Mike Smith? Count of Monte Cristo.
1:16:00 Wes Larson? Yeah, Count of Monte Cristo is much worse, in my opinion.
1:16:04 Jeff Larson? Count of Monte Cristo is bad, but I don't know.
1:16:06 Wes Larson? I just think it's a
1:16:07 Jeff Larson? Killing someone's son in front of you.
1:16:08 Wes Larson? Killing the son is, you can't get much worse than that. The thing about Monte Cristo that cuts me a little deeper is the, the sense of betrayal. Like, they were friends. They were so close. Like Fitzgerald was just like a dick, you know?
1:16:24 Jeff Larson? To marry his fiancee and stuff is like, it's more like calculated.
1:16:29 Wes Larson? Right.
1:16:30 Jeff Larson? Kill Bill, they
1:16:32 Wes Larson? Man in the Iron Mask.
1:16:34 Mike Smith? Oh, Man in the Iron Mask, another classic Leo.
1:16:37 Jeff Larson? And they kill Bill, she just wants like a wife outside of him and she won't let her.
1:16:42 Wes Larson? Gladiator kills his wife and his kid and they like crucify his kid, you know?
1:16:48 Mike Smith? Yeah, I think him killing Hawk, it wasn't very premeditated. Yeah, I don't think he would have other than like the fact that Hawk, at that point, it was gonna get out and he was gonna get like hung at the fort when they got back. So like, he kinda had to.
1:17:02 Jeff Larson? Fitzgerald, sympathizer. Alright.
1:17:06 Wes Larson? I kind of am. Like, I think he's terrible, but he wasn't planning any of that, you know?
1:17:13 Jeff Larson? Yeah. Alright, here's my last one. So, using the movie character, not using the legend, he's glass, just like what we saw in the movie, like that character.
1:17:23 Wes Larson? Yeah.
1:17:24 Mike Smith? Yep.
1:17:25 Jeff Larson? If he's on the show alone, right? Where it's just who can live in the woods the longest? Can you name any other movie characters that could outlast him?
1:17:35 Wes Larson? No.
1:17:36 Jeff Larson? Like, maybe Jeremiah Johnson would, not Jeremiah Johnson, the old guy who like teaches Jeremiah Johnson.
1:17:45 Wes Larson? You bring me a bear and I'll skin him or whatever he says. Yeah. No, it's Hugh Glass for me in this movie.
1:17:51 Jeff Larson? Hugh Glass, it'd be like they'd bring him his winnings and he'd just stay there.
1:17:56 Wes Larson? Yeah. He's, I can't think of anyone that survived longer on less in a movie, you know? I just think he, if he's in good shape and he's doing okay, he can survive indefinitely. So I don't know. I can't think of anyone.
1:18:11 Mike Smith? I'll go Daniel Day Lewis in Last of the Mohicans. He's pretty well equipped. I think he could have gone through similar and gotten out just as well, if not better.
1:18:21 Wes Larson? He's too pretty. Like, I feel like he would. Yeah.
1:18:24 Jeff Larson? The 127 Hours guy, but like only if they'd start with a boulder on their arm.
1:18:30 Wes Larson? Right? Yeah. Uh, I think Hugh Glass still making it longer than him. He's my pick. I'm going with Hugh Glass in this movie. Uh, I'll do one more. We already said like Leonardo DiCaprio's best performances, but my other category I had that was kind of semi-related is just your favorite three movies from him. So this doesn't necessarily have to be his best performance, just the movie you like the most that he's done.
1:18:55 Jeff Larson? Craprio?
1:18:56 Wes Larson? Yeah, DiCaprio. So I liked, my number one is Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. It's like a warm blanket of a movie for me. I can re-watch it over and over again and I just love it.
1:19:08 Jeff Larson? That's your favorite Craprio movie?
1:19:10 Wes Larson? Of his movies. Yeah. Then it's Titanic. I never get tired of it. I don't think he necessarily has an amazing performance in it, but I just think it's great. And then my third one. My first boobs I ever saw. Yeah.
1:19:24 Mike Smith? That's big.
1:19:25 Wes Larson? My third one is Catch Me If You Can.
1:19:26 Jeff Larson? They're pretty big. Could be bigger.
1:19:29 Wes Larson? Sure. That's not what he said.
1:19:31 Jeff Larson? Third one is Catch. That's the one, really, of just movies Leo's in?
1:19:37 Wes Larson? Yeah. I'm not saying these are his best movies or they're like his best performances, but they're my personal favorites. Huh. Those three.
1:19:45 Jeff Larson? That one wouldn't be in my like top eight, but you know, who am I to?
1:19:49 Wes Larson? I find, I find it again, like endlessly re-watchable. It's one that if I ever see a couple of seconds of, I end up just watching the whole thing because I just think it's such an entertaining movie.
1:19:58 Mike Smith? Yeah, I'll go, so The Departed, I think is my favorite movie. That he's kind of the headliner of it's, I think that's right in his wheelhouse where it's like, he's really good in it, but it doesn't demand someone be kind of like an elevated, accomplished actor. Cause I don't, again, I'm, I'm, I'm weird and I know I'm wrong. I, my Nicolas Cage is my favorite actor, just for context. I think he's the best. So like, don't trust my judgment on that, but I love the departed Wolf of Wall Street. And then another fun romp, just, I like Inception a lot. I think he's pretty good in that one, too.
1:20:33 Jeff Larson? Yeah. I would say for me, my favorite movie that he's in is probably Jenga.
1:20:39 Mike Smith? He's so good in that, too.
1:20:40 Jeff Larson? I just love a good revenge movie. That's like, no one deserves more revenge than.
1:20:45 Mike Smith? No one deserves more revenge. Yeah. Sure. My problem with him in that movie, I think that in that movie, he's outshined by a similar character, a lot by Don Johnson. He's, uh, I forget what the, what do they call him? Yeah. And his. Big something. Big something. Yeah. I just think he's like a funnier, more fun version of that character and Leo, like, he's fine. Again, he's, he's good in that movie, but I like Don more. I like.
1:21:10 Jeff Larson? Yeah. It's not my favorite performance, but it's.
1:21:13 Mike Smith? Sure.
1:21:13 Jeff Larson? I just love that movie. Uh, Wolf of Wall Street. I just, it's not like a comedy, but it's one of the movies that like makes me laugh the most. I think, I just think it's so funny. Probably the departed would be my next one, but the most I ever liked Leo as a character in a movie was in the quick in the dead, where he plays Billy the kid. Like where he plays Billy the kid in that, like that movie's like a little bit, it's fun, but like.
1:21:42 Mike Smith? Yeah.
1:21:43 Jeff Larson? To me, he's like, makes the whole movie. He's just like, at his very peak, this is the best looking person I've ever seen. And he's just like.
1:21:52 Mike Smith? Billy the kid, right? He's just like the kid in it.
1:21:54 Jeff Larson? Oh, I thought he was playing Billy the kid.
1:21:56 Mike Smith? No, I don't think so. I think he's just like the kid, but I could be wrong. I love that movie. That's Sam Raimi that did that movie.
1:22:04 Wes Larson? Uh, does anyone else do? Do you have any more categories? I think I'm through all mine.
1:22:08 Jeff Larson? I have some listener questions that I got for it. All right. From Jameson Castor, you can go movie or real life on this, I think. But from Hugh Glass, if he had an Instagram account, what would be like the most liked picture that he could have taken in his whole life? Maybe like the video of him jumping off the horse off the cliff? I think that would have gone pretty viral.
1:22:33 Wes Larson? Yeah, or just like drink a video of him drinking some water and it gurgling out of his neck. Mike doesn't know. He's never done an Instagram post.
1:22:41 Mike Smith? I, I'd want a picture of him on a bed, like his head on one pillow and then his gun and on the other side of the bed on the other pillow. Cause he loves that thing. Just sleeping with it.
1:22:53 Wes Larson? It's just his whole account is just photos of his gun.
1:22:57 Jeff Larson? Okay. Yeah. I like this one. Actor you would choose if Leo wasn't casted? And this is from Asia M Y. Aja. A J A.
1:23:08 Mike Smith? Asia. How you pronounce that Steely Dan album?
1:23:12 Wes Larson? It's a good question. It has to be someone that's kind of gritty. And like not too handsome. Cause I feel like he's like on the downside of his handsomeness in this movie. Which is a rude thing to say, but how I feel.
1:23:24 Jeff Larson? I might honestly say Tom Cruise, which is a crazy pick, but like.
1:23:29 Wes Larson? That is a crazy pick.
1:23:31 Jeff Larson? He doesn't talk very much, you know? I think it's like what Mike was saying. You need someone who's like face can hold your attention. I think Tom Cruise has that.
1:23:40 Wes Larson? He's, he's too charming and pretty for me in this.
1:23:44 Jeff Larson? I mean, Leo's the most charming and pretty actor there is.
1:23:48 Wes Larson? Not at this point though, I don't think.
1:23:50 Mike Smith? He's a little on the other side of it.
1:23:52 Jeff Larson? I wouldn't say Tom Cruise is any different.
1:23:55 Wes Larson? Fair enough. Fair enough.
1:23:56 Jeff Larson? It's a weird choice. And the beard might look weird, but I'm sticking with it.
1:24:01 Mike Smith? I don't want to pick Christian Bale because that was already like someone who was up for the part. But I just think he would have been so committed to the role. I, that's Leo did such a good job doing that. So if someone were to be able to go toe to toe with that kind of effort, I think it would have been him. But maybe Matthew McConaughey? He kind of, he might've been a fun little zag of a choice back in those days.
1:24:24 Jeff Larson? From Lisa Lillard, if you were Hugh Glass, what line would you say when you finally found Fitzgerald?
1:24:33 Jeff Larson? World ain't big enough for the two of us.
1:24:37 Mike Smith? Again, I just keep thinking of like Samuel L. Jackson monologues from Pulp Fiction. Maybe like the Ezekiel or no, at the diner at the end.
1:24:45 Jeff Larson? Just read a Bible verse.
1:24:46 Mike Smith? Yeah, read a Bible verse or give him the whole spiel that he he does at the end with Tim Roth at the diner at the end of Pulp Fiction. Cause he does eventually, he lets him go, he lets him live. So maybe that's the move.
1:24:58 Jeff Larson? I think Fitzgerald would be like, why are you quoting the Bible?
1:25:04 Jeff Larson? Alright, so the Haley ass.
1:25:07 Mike Smith? Killed that squirrel.
1:25:09 Jeff Larson? Shouldn't have killed my boy and that squirrel.
1:25:12 Mike Smith? Should have raised a man.
1:25:14 Jeff Larson? Yeah, that was a crazy response.
1:25:16 Mike Smith? That was, yeah, that was bad.
1:25:18 Jeff Larson? He's like, well, you should have raised him better. It's like you stabbed him.
1:25:23 Mike Smith? He's like a teenager.
1:25:25 Jeff Larson? The Haley ass, uh, so this is a good one because we talked all Leo favorite movies. Favorite Tom Hardy performance. I love him as Bane. I don't know.
1:25:36 Mike Smith? He is great. He's so good as.
1:25:39 Jeff Larson? He's like, voice is insane, but it's kind of fun and like, I don't know.
1:25:43 Mike Smith? It's hard for me not to pick Venom too, actually.
1:25:46 Wes Larson? That's, that's the first one that came to my mind. It's so fun.
1:25:49 Jeff Larson? That's great. They, she specifically said, don't say Venom, please.
1:25:54 Wes Larson? Oh, no.
1:25:56 Mike Smith? I don't know, like, he's got so many good ones.
1:25:59 Wes Larson? The Warrior.
1:26:00 Mike Smith? Warrior's really good.
1:26:01 Wes Larson? He's like very physical. Dunkirk, he's the pilot. He's like a cool pilot. I'm gonna go Warrior. That's my final.
1:26:08 Mike Smith? I'd probably have to go with Mad Max Fury Road. That's probably my favorite.
1:26:11 Jeff Larson? Oh, yeah.
1:26:12 Mike Smith? Even though he hardly talks in it, he's so good in it. Yeah, that's what I'd pick.
1:26:16 Jeff Larson? So these ones kind of go together. So I'd do it kind of two questions in one. Kate Seem, this is important to, we can't skip this. Okay. Kate Skim asks, uh, is Leo hot in this? Do we dig the scruffy outdoorsman look? And then, uh, Filmy also asked, who's hotter, Tom or Leo? I'm saying at their peaks.
1:26:38 Mike Smith? I'm actually giving it to Tom. Well, so for first is no, he's not, I don't find him very attractive in this movie.
1:26:45 Jeff Larson? I don't either, but I think like the first time I just thought he had zero charm and like zero, just like, I want to be around this guy was, uh, Killers of the Flower Moon.
1:26:56 Mike Smith? Yeah, I don't think he's hot in this. I think at their peak, I give it to Leo.
1:27:01 Wes Larson? Like Romeo and Juliet, Leo, he's pretty hot.
1:27:05 Jeff Larson? That's a good, yeah.
1:27:06 Mike Smith? I'm sticking with Tom. If you look at him in like his modeling days.
1:27:10 Wes Larson? He's hot too.
1:27:11 Mike Smith? Handsome dog.
1:27:12 Jeff Larson? One last one. Ruby Barrett Wright asks FMK, so fuck marry kill, Leo, Tom Hardy, or the bear?
1:27:21 Mike Smith? Like their characters in the movie?
1:27:24 Jeff Larson? I'm marrying the bear. I don't, I would love to just like spend my life with a bear.
1:27:31 Wes Larson? Yeah, like is it, is it, is the bear
1:27:33 Mike Smith? Wrong choice.
1:27:34 Wes Larson? Committing to you?
1:27:35 Mike Smith? Probably more than Leo.
1:27:36 Wes Larson? Cause if it's just a bear, like if there's like, you have to marry a bear, I'm going to kill the bear if I had to.
1:27:42 Jeff Larson? I think it'll be kinda like a Bart the Bear situation.
1:27:46 Wes Larson? Then yeah, I would marry it.
1:27:47 Jeff Larson? Best buds and kinda wrestle around in the grass and stuff.
1:27:51 Wes Larson? Leo, that's the situation I would also marry it. I'm not gonna have sex with it.
1:27:56 Mike Smith? I think I might. I'm gonna kill Leo, cause he's, he's just gonna like break up with me for like a younger podcaster. Yeah, I'll marry Tom.
1:28:06 Wes Larson? I'll kill Leo. So you're gonna?
1:28:09 Mike Smith? Yeah. Oh, you know. Doesn't need to be said.
1:28:15 Wes Larson? Uh, I'll marry the bear as well.
1:28:17 Mike Smith? So here's the thing, it's the only female of these three characters and
1:28:21 Jeff Larson? Oh, yeah.
1:28:22 Mike Smith? Like a heterosexual. Nothing wrong if someone, yeah. Right.
1:28:29 Wes Larson? I'm gonna marry the bear.
1:28:30 Jeff Larson? So not gay that you would just choose a bear over a guy? That's pretty.
1:28:37 Wes Larson? You're so straight dude.
1:28:39 Mike Smith? Alright, you won't even believe how straight I am.
1:28:43 Wes Larson? Okay, I think we're significantly, we're, we're
1:28:47 Mike Smith? We've lost the
1:28:48 Wes Larson? Sufficiently off the rails to end this episode, right?
1:28:51 Mike Smith? Right.
1:28:51 Jeff Larson? Alright, well, thanks guys. That was fun.
1:28:53 Wes Larson? Yeah. Yeah, thanks for the questions.
1:28:55 Jeff Larson? Love you guys. Great questions.
1:28:57 Wes Larson? If you want to hear any extra content, check out our Patreon, check out our Apple Griz Club. I just did an episode on Patreon about a war with Emuse. Jeff's got one coming up. It's gonna be fun. So check us out. Thanks again for listening, everyone.
1:29:11 Jeff Larson? Listen to us backwards. Maybe you try that app.
1:29:14 Wes Larson? Yeah, do it. Maybe you'll find a hidden message.
1:29:16 Mike Smith? Like it's satanic.
1:29:18 Jeff Larson? Mike's hidden a few messages in every episode.
1:29:23 Mike Smith? Slip a little.
1:29:24 Jeff Larson? If you listen backwards.
1:29:25 Mike Smith? Slip some sound in there, that's what I do around here.
1:29:29 Mike Smith? Alright, see you guys.
1:29:30 Jeff Larson? Love you guys.
1:29:31 Mike Smith? Bye.
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