Pod Insights Tooth & Claw: True Stories of Animal Attacks Leopard Seal Attack - Sharp Teeth Down South About this episode It turns out that it's not just the cold that can be deadly down in the south pole. Wes shares a couple of stories to prove it, and then introduces an instant new favorite category called Seal of Approval.
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Transcript 18,206 words · 5 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:13 Jeff Larson? Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of Tooth and Claw Podcast. We have our bear biologist Wes Larson, who once caught a fish while a bull moose charged him.
0:25 Wes Larson? That's true.
0:25 Jeff Larson? Yeah.
0:26 Wes Larson? But it wasn't a bull moose, it was a cow moose. So it's not true, actually.
0:30 Jeff Larson? Then we have our producer Mike Smith, who once slept for 24 hours, but he thought that he only slept for a minute when he woke up. And he doesn't know how that happened.
0:41 Wes Larson? It's a real Rip Van Winkle.
0:42 Mike Smith? Yeah, we're approaching the truth once again on that.
0:46 Wes Larson? Yeah.
0:46 Jeff Larson? And then I'm Jeff Larson, and I once did half of a backflip snowboard.
0:51 Wes Larson? Ooh, that's not enough. You gotta do more than that.
0:54 Jeff Larson? I landed on my head, yeah.
0:55 Mike Smith? So that is true. One truth and two lies.
0:57 Jeff Larson? Wait, what was, you told me that you closed your eyes and you woke up and it's the next day.
1:03 Mike Smith? It was like a blink. I blinked and it was a whole night had passed and it was the craziest, one of the craziest things I've ever experienced. I was, I felt well rested.
1:12 Jeff Larson? Where's my lie?
1:12 Mike Smith? You said for a minute and I slept for 24 hours? Both are false, like pretty egregiously.
1:18 Wes Larson? Did you see Jeff close to your drink right before that happened?
1:21 Mike Smith? No, I was alone, like usual.
1:23 Jeff Larson? No, that was what I was trying to say though. You like closed your eyes and then it's the next day.
1:28 Mike Smith? You said that, okay, yeah, sure. There was, yeah, you got it. You nailed it perfectly.
1:33 Wes Larson? All right. Me and Mike are both wearing necklaces right now.
1:36 Mike Smith? Hmm, yeah.
1:37 Wes Larson? Yours has a little Mario Ghost on it. What's it called?
1:39 Mike Smith? Ninji, so cool.
1:41 Wes Larson? Mine's just the one I bought because I was watching too much Sopranos and I just decided I needed a necklace.
1:47 Mike Smith? It'll look good.
1:47 Jeff Larson? Yeah.
1:48 Wes Larson? Thanks.
1:48 Jeff Larson? You guys like to show off your wealth a lot.
1:51 Wes Larson? Yeah, this is just showing off our extreme wealth. The necklace I bought it, Herberger's for $5.
1:58 Mike Smith? Mine was like 100 yen gacha machine in Japan that I got mine.
2:02 Jeff Larson? 100 yen, it sounds like.
2:04 Wes Larson? That's a lot, man.
2:04 Mike Smith? It's a lot of yen.
2:05 Wes Larson? Sounds like a lot of yens. It's like unseasonably warm in Salt Lake and it's a full-on winter storm here. We're living in different realities right now. It's like a blizzard outside. I know.
2:16 Jeff Larson? You know, God is great.
2:19 Mike Smith? Works in mysterious ways.
2:21 Wes Larson? I can't remember where I saw the comment, but someone said weirdly Tooth and Claw is the podcast I listen to where they bring up the Bible the most. Which is kind of funny.
2:32 Jeff Larson? It is.
2:32 Wes Larson? You know, I guess there's a lot of references, but anyway, I'm not going to bring it up once today. I'm not talking about the Bible once. So you can.
2:40 Jeff Larson? You brought it up.
2:42 Wes Larson? Yeah, I guess I did already bring it up, huh?
2:44 Jeff Larson? Yeah, you were the only one to bring up the Bible so far.
2:48 Wes Larson? I swear to God, I won't bring up religion one more time.
2:51 Jeff Larson? Okay.
2:51 Wes Larson? You know what we're gonna do today? We're gonna start with a little quiz. It's gonna be fun.
2:56 Jeff Larson? That's new.
2:56 Wes Larson? And there's, there's, this isn't a quiz where you win anything. It's a quiz where you lose something if you lose. And what's gonna?
3:04 Jeff Larson? Like a part of a body part?
3:06 Wes Larson? Yep. We're chopping body parts.
3:08 Mike Smith? Yakuza, cut my pinky off.
3:10 Wes Larson? You can pick. Mike, I already know what body part you want to rip off.
3:14 Mike Smith? Oh, yeah.
3:14 Wes Larson? All the time.
3:15 Mike Smith? You know it.
3:16 Wes Larson? Jeff, what body part are you losing?
3:18 Jeff Larson? I'll do, I'll lose a near. Just keep blonde hair the rest of my life.
3:23 Wes Larson? That's a good, yeah, it's a decent pick. What you're actually losing is, Mike, if you lose this quiz, you have to play a full round of mini golf with me and Jeff tonight. You have to. Yeah, I'm sorry.
3:35 Mike Smith? All right.
3:35 Wes Larson? It's been.
3:35 Mike Smith? I feel confident though. I'm gonna win.
3:37 Wes Larson? Jeff, if you lose, me and Mike once again get to pick a movie for you on our flight to India, which is upcoming in a couple of weeks.
3:46 Jeff Larson? Okay.
3:47 Wes Larson? Are you okay with that? Do you guys accept the terms?
3:49 Jeff Larson? What's your thing? You don't get anything?
3:51 Wes Larson? I'm not involved in the quiz.
3:53 Mike Smith? He's the game master.
3:54 Wes Larson? I'm game master.
3:54 Mike Smith? The dungeon master.
3:56 Wes Larson? Did you want to give me a penalty?
3:57 Jeff Larson? How about this? Yeah, you have to pick who you think me or Mike will win.
4:02 Wes Larson? Okay.
4:02 Jeff Larson? And if you pick wrong, then you gotta give whoever wins in mini golf $25.
4:09 Wes Larson? Sure. I pick Mike.
4:10 Jeff Larson? Okay.
4:11 Wes Larson? All right. Who wants to go first?
4:13 Jeff Larson? I'll let Mike go first. How about that?
4:15 Wes Larson? Mike, Mike Smith. And you can steal if the person gets it wrong.
4:20 Mike Smith? Doxing me.
4:21 Wes Larson? I doxed you. Mike, what is a pinup head?
4:25 Jeff Larson? I'll steal.
4:26 Wes Larson? No, Mike gets to.
4:27 Mike Smith? Oh, shoot.
4:27 Wes Larson? Go first.
4:28 Mike Smith? Jeff gets just to steal like that? All right, go Jeff.
4:30 Wes Larson? You get to answer first. What is a pinup head?
4:34 Mike Smith? A pinniped is a seal sea lion or one of those other ones with the tu-
4:40 Wes Larson? I accept, I accept seal. Marine mammals that have flippers on their front and back feet. The word actually means fin footed, but they're generally known as like the seal family. So seal was the answer I was looking for. One point, Mike.
4:54 Jeff Larson? What about sea lions?
4:55 Wes Larson? Yeah, they're in that family, but they're-
4:57 Jeff Larson? Okay.
4:57 Wes Larson? They all like big circle is like seals and like sea lions and walruses and all like-
5:03 Mike Smith? Walrus.
5:04 Wes Larson? Family. Jeff, you got, you picked wrong. The, the second question's harder than the first. I'm sorry. The first team to reach the South Pole was led by what explorer?
5:14 Jeff Larson? Uh, Christopher Columbus.
5:17 Wes Larson? Incorrect. Mike, do you know this?
5:19 Mike Smith? Captain Cook?
5:20 Wes Larson? Incorrect. Roald Amundsen from Norway.
5:24 Mike Smith? That was a tough one.
5:25 Wes Larson? Okay, Mike.
5:27 Jeff Larson? Should have gone Noah because he couldn't have really refuted me too hard.
5:32 Wes Larson? Yeah, that's true. And then, and then you would have proved me wrong that we're bringing up the Bible again.
5:37 Mike Smith? He wouldn't have been able to go there. It would have been flooded back then.
5:40 Wes Larson? Mike, it's one zero, your next question. And I, if you get this within 10 degrees, I'm gonna count it. The coldest temperature-
5:49 Jeff Larson? Last question, dude.
5:50 Wes Larson? Coldest, Jeff, don't worry. Your next one's easier. Coldest temperature ever recorded on Earth?
5:56 Mike Smith? What the heck?
5:56 Wes Larson? And I'm giving you a hint. It was recorded in Antarctica.
5:59 Jeff Larson? Uh, shit, nevermind.
6:01 Mike Smith? A hundred sixty below Fahrenheit.
6:05 Wes Larson? Incorrect. Jeff, you wanna try and steal?
6:07 Jeff Larson? Yeah, I'm gonna say a hundred twenty Fahrenheit.
6:11 Wes Larson? Ooh, within 10 degrees.
6:13 Mike Smith? Wow.
6:13 Wes Larson? Wait, a hundred twenty degrees Fahrenheit? Is that what you said? Coldest? A hundred and twenty degrees Fahrenheit?
6:19 Jeff Larson? Yes. Yeah.
6:21 Wes Larson? Incorrect.
6:22 Mike Smith? Negative, dude.
6:23 Wes Larson? Negative. A hundred and twenty. I tried to give that to you.
6:26 Jeff Larson? Negative.
6:27 Wes Larson? You didn't.
6:28 Jeff Larson? I did say negative.
6:29 Mike Smith? We'll check the tape, but not when you gave your final answer. You didn't love that.
6:33 Wes Larson? Saying a hundred and twenty-eight degrees Fahrenheit.
6:35 Jeff Larson? But I'd already said negative.
6:37 Wes Larson? You had it.
6:38 Jeff Larson? I did.
6:39 Wes Larson? Hmm.
6:40 Mike Smith? We'll have to do a recount after the episode.
6:42 Wes Larson? We will.
6:43 Mike Smith? I don't know.
6:44 Wes Larson? I'm gonna give it to you, but if we recount and you didn't, then we're changing the, how this goes. All right. One, one. Jeff, true or false? Mount Everest was summited before people reached the South Pole?
6:59 Jeff Larson? Yes.
7:00 Wes Larson? Mike?
7:01 Mike Smith? No.
7:02 Wes Larson? You can't steal this one.
7:02 Mike Smith? No, no, no. Sir Edmund Hillary, 1967, right?
7:05 Wes Larson? You would have gotten it, but because this is a binary answer, you can't steal it.
7:09 Mike Smith? Dang.
7:10 Wes Larson? So it's tied still one, one. Okay.
7:12 Mike Smith? I don't know what year it was. That could be off.
7:14 Jeff Larson? That felt like a trick question. Like, why would you ask that if they didn't?
7:18 Wes Larson? They didn't.
7:18 Jeff Larson? But I guess.
7:19 Wes Larson? Everest was summited in 1953 by Sir Edmund Hillary, and Amundsen reached the South Pole in 1911. Now, Mike, you get a binary question.
7:28 Jeff Larson? You're doing the Woj finger or the windy finger.
7:30 Wes Larson? Yeah, it's because you're tied up.
7:32 Mike Smith? Something interesting.
7:33 Wes Larson? Mike, true or false?
7:34 Jeff Larson? Something in Utah.
7:36 Wes Larson? True or false, Mike? Antarctica is the driest continent on Earth.
7:42 Mike Smith? Oh, man. I mean, it's made out of ice, but ice isn't water, so that doesn't mean it's wet.
7:49 Wes Larson? I'm talking precipitation. Driest continent on Earth. False. Incorrect.
7:54 Mike Smith? Dang, dude, you keep trying it.
7:57 Wes Larson? Okay, Jeff, for the win here, maybe. We're gonna have to go back to the old tape. Name the largest species of penguin.
8:07 Jeff Larson? Emperor penguin.
8:08 Wes Larson? Correct. Jeff wins. That means...
8:11 Mike Smith? Oh, shoot.
8:12 Wes Larson? Mike, you have to play mini golf, and if this holds after we record, I have to pay $25. If it goes back, then Jeff's gonna have to watch the movie.
8:21 Jeff Larson? We'll put in a clip if I'm wrong.
8:23 Wes Larson? Yes, yes.
8:24 Speaker 03 I'm gonna say 120 Fahrenheit.
8:29 Wes Larson? All right, so what continent do you guys think we're gonna be talking about today?
8:33 Jeff Larson? The North Pole, Antarctica.
8:35 Wes Larson? Uh, not the North Pole, the South Pole, but, um, close. Actually, not close. Opposite end of the Earth. We're talking about Antarctica.
8:43 Mike Smith? Where the devil lives.
8:44 Wes Larson? Yeah.
8:44 Mike Smith? It's like opposite from Santa.
8:46 Wes Larson? Sure. Yeah, Santa lives up there. Antarctica lives.
8:48 Jeff Larson? North Pole is like just ice, right? That's why it's not a continent, but Antarctica has land.
8:55 Wes Larson? There's landmass. Exactly. Yeah, the North Pole is on, is on sea ice.
9:00 Mike Smith? And West is incontinent.
9:03 Wes Larson? Uh, I'm not, but, uh, someday, probably.
9:07 Mike Smith? That'll be fun, that.
9:08 Jeff Larson? That's why you use that pee bottle.
9:11 Mike Smith? Yeah.
9:11 Wes Larson? I have my pee bottle. Here it is.
9:13 Mike Smith? Hold it up.
9:14 Wes Larson? Not actually a pee bottle.
9:16 Mike Smith? Gross dude.
9:16 Wes Larson? It's full of element right now. All right. So since we're talking about Antarctica, it really narrows down what animal we might be featuring on this podcast that's about animal attacks. So it really has to be either a marine mammal, a fish, or a penguin, because those are really the only, or maybe a bird, but those are the only animals you really find.
9:36 Mike Smith? Narwhal.
9:37 Wes Larson? Those are in the North Pole, not the South Pole.
9:39 Mike Smith? What the?
9:40 Wes Larson? But there's really very few animals in Antarctica that really pose any kind of real danger toward human visitors. And there's really only one that has ever displayed any kind of actual predatory behavior toward humans. And that animal is the leopard seal. So today, we're finally going to be covering a very requested animal and one that has really been feared by humans since we started exploring the frozen continent of Antarctica. And it's actually really a highly misunderstood animal. Leopard seals, I think people see them, they hear the word leopard, they see how kind of scary they can look, and they think this is a very dangerous animal. This is not a very dangerous animal, but it can be dangerous.
10:24 Wes Larson? I would like, kind of say they're the black bears of the seal world, where they have some potential to harm us, but it's not like they're necessarily trying to.
10:33 Mike Smith? But when they do, they're gonna eat you.
10:35 Wes Larson? Uh, well, we'll get to that.
10:38 Wes Larson? But to start, we're going to talk about one of the most famous Antarctic explorers of all time and the ill-fated expedition aboard the ship Endurance. Mike, do you know who it is?
10:48 Mike Smith? Hey, no, I, I saw that book on my shelf. I bought it apparently a long time ago, just haven't read it yet.
10:53 Wes Larson? Do you know who the explorer is?
10:55 Mike Smith? No, do you?
10:56 Wes Larson? Sir Ernest Shackleton. Yes, I've read this book.
10:58 Mike Smith? I knew that. I knew that name. Yeah.
11:00 Wes Larson? It's an amazing story. It's honestly probably the best nonfiction, historical nonfiction book I've ever read. That's called Endurance. It's really, really good. It's all about this voyage of Shackleton and problems they ran into and their miraculous plea to try and get to safety. It's, it's really amazing. I would definitely recommend the book Endurance. But today, we're mostly going to talk about one of the people on his crew. This guy named Thomas Ordelyes.
11:28 Mike Smith? Sounds like a group of people that probably ended up drinking their pee at some point. You think?
11:32 Wes Larson? Uh, yeah, probably. You're really stuck on that lately, which I love. All right, so Ordelyes was probably the most disliked person on the ship. Uh, and the reason for that was he was-
11:45 Mike Smith? I hope it's for a good reason.
11:47 Wes Larson? Yeah, it was. He was very surly and he was lazy. And he often didn't do his part when they came up against something hard. Like if, if the ship was stuck or if there was issues, he wasn't the first one to like, go out and push or do whatever they had to do. They often really had to convince him to help with anything. So a lot of people didn't like this guy on this boat. Not super popular on the Endurance. Not a team player, not at all. So when the ship got stuck in the pack ice, Thomas would actually sometimes take his bicycle out onto the ice and just disappear for hours. Which, you know, it's, yeah, if you're stuck in pack ice, like, it's kind of nice to have a hobby. I don't blame him for that.
12:28 Wes Larson? But he would be gone long enough that Shackleton and some of the other officers on the Endurance, or now on their camps out on the pack ice, would get really worried about him. They would think like, Ordelyes has been gone too long. Where is he? You know, so it's kind of a problem still.
12:44 Mike Smith? It's a weird thing to have on your packing list when you're traveling to Antarctica. Just, did everyone have bikes or was it just him?
12:52 Wes Larson? I don't think so. I think it was just him.
12:54 Mike Smith? Hmm, that's like Al Kijji from One Piece, just riding around.
12:57 Jeff Larson? I know, that's what I was thinking.
12:58 Mike Smith? Nice.
13:00 Wes Larson? So one time, Thomas Ordelyes decided that he would go out and search for food. And during this process, he became lost. And when he finally found the men camped out on the pack ice, he started heading back toward them on cross-country skis. But little did surly Thomas know that he was being watched by a predator beneath the ice. It had been attracted by his shadow above the surface of the ice, and as he glided along the ice and snow, a 1,000 pound seal swam effortlessly through the water beneath his movement. And as Thomas orderly approached an opening in the ice ahead, the seal sped through the water and lay in wait. So some of the men that were gathered had been watching orderly approaching, and they
13:42 Wes Larson? were shocked to see a huge leopard seal explode from the water in front of their shipmate. And orderly immediately turned and skied in the opposite direction, and he started yelling at Frank Wild, who is another expedition member that was really good with a rifle, to bring his rifle out and to shoot the seal. And I think this was kind of a twofold thing, because at this point, these men are stuck in the ice, and they're having a hard time finding food. So not only does he want him to save his life, but like, this is a pretty big meal deal for these guys if they can kill this seal. So this leopard shoots out of the water up onto the ice where it starts giving chase, and Shackleton describes the chase in his journal.
14:22 Mike Smith? The seal had a gun, too?
14:24 Wes Larson? It didn't, no.
14:25 Mike Smith? You did, no.
14:27 Jeff Larson? Water gun?
14:28 Wes Larson? Oh, shoot, I said shoot.
14:30 Mike Smith? You did say shot up out of the water.
14:32 Wes Larson? All right. So this is what Shackleton said in his journal. "The animal, a sea leopard, sprang out of the water and came after him, bounding across the ice with the peculiar rocking horse gait of a seal on land. The beast looked like a small dinosaur with a long serpentine neck." And if you do look at a leopard seal, they are very characteristically shaped among seals. They have this long kind of arching neck, and their face does look almost reptilian. It's very different from any other seal out there. They look like much more of a predatory seal than than all of the other seal species.
15:08 Jeff Larson? That's cool.
15:08 Mike Smith? That is really cool.
15:09 Jeff Larson? Mike, do you think it had a spring? Because it sprang out of the water that time?
15:13 Mike Smith? That's what I was thinking. I've learned to hold my tongue, though. I can't take everything so literally, I've learned.
15:19 Wes Larson? If you've spent much time in the West, you know that every ski town has a brand that the locals are going to wear before the rest of the country catches on. In Jackson Hole, that brand is Stio. Stio is designed and tested in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, right at the base of the Tetons by locals who ski, bike, climb, and fish there every day. I've spent a lot of time in Jackson Hole. I know that they deal with a lot of different weather there, a lot of different things. And so Stio really has to hold up in a ton of different environments. And they've been at it since 2011. 15 years in, it's the real gear that locals live in. It's made for the whole mountain day, beyond the summit, the first chair, the school run, dinner out, the dog walk when it's cold outside. It's just made
16:01 Wes Larson? for every moment of mountain life. And those are people that are living through Wyoming winters, so they really know warm. The Hometown Down Jacket is 800 fill down, but it feels more like your favorite hoodie than it does a puffy. And for me, I am really excited about the Men's Furnos Max Insulated Jacket. I'm constantly looking for a jacket that just ticks all the boxes, and this one really does. It's stretchy, it's breathable, it looks great, it keeps me super warm. It's just amazing. I just absolutely love this jacket. So ski season's almost here. Gear up now the way that the locals do. Go to stio.com/tooth for 20% off your order. That's S-T-I-O dot com slash tooth. Stio dot com
16:44 Wes Larson? slash tooth. Stio, designed and tested in Jackson Hole. This episode of Tooth and Claw is brought to you by Graza. And everyone knows that I love food. I'm not necessarily a foodie, but I really like good food. And lately, what's taken my food to the next level of flavor is Graza. It's my olive oil of choice. It's top-notch, extra virgin olive oil at an affordable price. It's always fresh, and it's made from a one-of-a-kind olive produced in high-end Spain, where over half of the world's olive oil is produced. And they have not one, but two different olive oils that come in super fun squeeze bottles for really easy sizzling and drizzling. So one of these is a sizzle oil that you can use to cook in. It's got a high smoke point of 410 degrees Fahrenheit.
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18:13 Wes Larson? where you'll get two squeezy bottles of olive oil, sizzle for cooking and drizzle for finishing with an extra kick of flavor. Head to graza.co and use TOOTH to get 10% off your Graza Starter Kit and get to cooking your next chef-quality meal. Take your food to the next level with Graza Olive Oil. Visit graza.co/TOOTH and use promo code TOOTH today for 10% off your first order. Thank you Graza for sponsoring this episode. Alright, so this seal is up on land. All of these men are watching it chase Ordele's. And he's faster than the seal on the ice. Like most seals, they're pretty ungainly on land, kinda like Shackleton was describing. They have this kind of rocking horse movement.
18:57 Wes Larson? And the seal quickly realized it wasn't gonna catch him, so it wheeled around and plunged back into the water. And Ordele is still trying to create distance between him and where the seal had been. And he's approaching the opposite side of this ice floe in more open water. And what he hadn't realized was that this leopard seal was tracking his movement from underneath the ice. And when he got close to the open water on the far side of the ice floe, the seal again lunges out of the water directly in front of him. And actually lunges toward him, trying to bite him.
19:28 Jeff Larson? Whoa.
19:28 Wes Larson? Yeah. Its mouth is open. It's displaying jaws full of really sharp, intimidating conical teeth.
19:35 Jeff Larson? And this is one of the first explorations ever in that. Part of the world, right?
19:39 Wes Larson? They had documented leopard seals at this point, but no one really knew kind of how dangerous they were.
19:45 Jeff Larson? Okay.
19:46 Wes Larson? This was a shock to them to be chased by something that they usually are chasing.
19:50 Jeff Larson? Feels like a dinosaur almost, probably.
19:52 Wes Larson? Yeah, and they're big. This is a thousand pound seal. Orderly, who had been shouting, is now screaming. He's screaming his head off and he turns once again to flee from this seal and it shoots up onto the ice again and starts chasing him. It's kind of playing the scariest game of pickle ever on this ice floe where it pushes him to one side, it pops up, you know, and sooner or later he's going to stumble or something's going to happen. And it might have caught him had Frank Wild not shown up with his rifle. The leopard seal sees Wild and changes direction. This new target's already closer than orderly and orderly's already starting to put a lot of distance between him and the seal. Wild's on foot, he's not on skis, so he's moving slower.
20:35 Wes Larson? The sea or the leopard seal decides to go for him. Uh, Wild immediately fires a shot. It doesn't say whether or not he hit it, but the leopard seal keeps coming toward him. And this, again, this is like a huge animal. They have inches of blubber. You have to be a pretty good shot to kill a leopard seal. But Wild, who seems to be like kind of a badass dude, just commits. Instead of running away or anything, he drops to one knee. He balances his rifle. He takes careful aim as the seal's coming toward him. And when it's about 30 feet away, he fires the second shot and drops the leopard seal. Takes about two of their dog teams to bring the seal's body into camp and the men guessed it weighed about 1,100 pounds, about 500 kilograms.
21:20 Wes Larson? And they actually end up giving the jaw of this leopard seal to orderly as a memento and shackled in to him like you're no longer allowed to wander away from camp because this had been kind of a traumatic experience for all of them. I wonder if some of them were kind of hoping that it would get him. You know, since you didn't seem to be very well liked.
21:40 Mike Smith? I was thinking, maybe the guy with the gun would like accidentally quote unquote, shoot him instead.
21:45 Wes Larson? Shoot him in the leg or something.
21:47 Mike Smith? Yeah. And then they'd eat him instead of the seal. That would be dark. I'm glad that didn't happen.
21:52 Wes Larson? So this is really one of the earliest recorded interactions with the leopard seal. Like Jeff brought up, there hadn't been that many expeditions into this part of the world yet. And this is a really interesting animal to talk about because often when we talk about a species on this podcast, even if colonial, you know, white explorers from the West hadn't seen this animal for a long time, there's usually like this foundation of indigenous knowledge and experience around an animal, but there aren't any people that are indigenous to Antarctica. This is a place that doesn't have indigenous peoples. So this is an animal that kind of existed outside of contact with people for a very, very, very long time. Occasionally they would
22:34 Wes Larson? show up in New Zealand or South Africa or something, but as far as like their core population, people just had never really seen this animal until like the early 1800s, which is kind of crazy. All right. So we're going to do some quick biology. This is a new animal. I was really excited to learn more about them. They are pinnipeds. So in their seal family, it's a clater group of animals that encompasses all the seals. So we're talking seals, walruses, sea lions, and elephant seals all belong to this family. Otters do not belong to pinnipeds, just to keep that clear.
23:06 Mike Smith? No fins. Well, is that, that's the differentiator?
23:09 Wes Larson? Or yeah, they don't, they don't have flippers. They, you know, they have actual feet and they're like their mustelids. Yeah. Do you think, what do you think are cuter otters, otters or pinnipeds?
23:19 Jeff Larson? Oh, I think it's too wide of a range to give it to pinnipeds. I'd give it to otters. But I think if you're giving me like the cutest seal, like a harbor seal or
23:29 Wes Larson? harp seal.
23:29 Jeff Larson? A harp seal or what are the other cute ones?
23:32 Wes Larson? Harbor seals are cute too. Yeah.
23:34 Mike Smith? I think it's contextual. Like if an otter is showing me its favorite rock or it's playing basketball, like you see sometimes in those videos, I'm giving it to the otter. But if it's just like hanging out, lounging around, I'm going to give it to probably a harp seal.
23:48 Wes Larson? I'm going to give it to sea otter. I think sea otters are cuter than any seal, but that's just me, you know?
23:54 Jeff Larson? I, I don't blame you.
23:56 Mike Smith? It's a tough one.
23:57 Wes Larson? Leopard seals are the largest pinup heads after elephant seals and walruses. They can weigh up to 1,300 pounds, but averages are more in the 500 to 600 pound range. They can get up to 12 feet long, which is about almost four meters long. And they do have sexual dimorphism when it comes to size.
24:14 Mike Smith? Like the size of a van.
24:17 Wes Larson? Yeah, actually, um, it's funny because as I was researching this, there was one website that was like, and this is a good example of why you need to use critical thinking, especially when you're researching like wildlife. Often you find websites that seem very like expert based and they'll say some outlandish things. There's one website I found that said they can be 30 feet long, which Jeff is about the size of a like, that's longer than a short school bus, but 12 feet, you're right, is about the size of a, well, I think like a sedan is like 14 feet long. So this would be like the size of a compact car, 12 feet long. I looked it up.
24:55 Mike Smith? Have to measure it.
24:57 Wes Larson? Females are larger than males. So there is sexual, sexual dimorphism. Females can be up to double the size of males. They are quite a bit larger.
25:05 Mike Smith? I like that. I personally appreciate that.
25:08 Wes Larson? And again, if you're new to the podcast, we talk about sexual dimorphism a lot. It just means there is some sort of difference between the sexes. So there's like, something about them is very different. It could be coloration. It can be size, can be a lot of different things, but that's what sexual dimorphism is. Okay. So they get their name from the pattern on their silvery gray, sometimes bluish gray and white coats. They're often spotted. So that's why they were named leopard seal. Early on they were called sea leopards, which really like, I almost wish we would have stuck with that. But because we have sea lions, so sea leopards would have been kind of cool.
25:47 Mike Smith? That is cool.
25:48 Wes Larson? Almost all marine mammals, their main protection against really cold conditions of their environment is a really thick layer of fat that we call blubber. And there's a really big difference between just normal fat and blubber. And that difference is that blubber does contain blood vessels and. A really cool thing about the blood vessels in Blubber is they can constrict and control the amount of blood flow between the skin and like vital organs and stuff. So if they're in really cold water, those blood vessels will constrict and that pools the warm blood around their vital organs and keeps their core temperature warm.
26:25 Mike Smith? Oh, wow.
26:26 Wes Larson? And it restricts blood flow out to the skin because it doesn't really matter if they keep their skin warm.
26:30 Mike Smith? That's awesome. That's really handy, I would assume. Like if one of them has erectile dysfunction, just.
26:36 Wes Larson? Yeah, just constrict those blood vessels.
26:38 Mike Smith? Make the blood go down to that blood.
26:40 Wes Larson? Right where you need it.
26:41 Jeff Larson? I wonder if they get the same benefits from a cold plunge, though.
26:44 Mike Smith? Hmm, that's a trade off. Yeah, maybe.
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29:06 Wes Larson? Good timing on that Hims read, Jeff. Right after talking about Sea Leopard boners.
29:12 Jeff Larson? No, I wasn't talking about boners.
29:15 Wes Larson? We were. Mike was saying it'd be nice if you could redirect blood flow.
29:19 Mike Smith? It's a fine.
29:19 Jeff Larson? Oh, I didn't catch it.
29:22 Wes Larson? You didn't. Yeah. Anyway. So their range mostly encompasses all of the water directly surrounding Antarctica. So they're found in Antarctic and sub Antarctic waters. And they really like the edge of pack ice. So in these places, pack ice is the ice that's going to form when it gets colder and kind of pack around the continent or up in the north around that multi-year sea ice. And they really like to be right on the edge of that because that's where penguins are going to hang out. That's where fur seals are going to hang out. That's where you often get the highest amount of biodiversity.
29:55 Jeff Larson? Fur seals are cute.
29:56 Wes Larson? Yeah. Well, these guys love eating them. We'll talk about that in a second.
29:59 Mike Smith? It's kind of like, I like eating Teddy grams. They're pretty cute. Doesn't change the fact they taste great.
30:05 Wes Larson? You'll still eat them.
30:05 Jeff Larson? You probably wouldn't like them as Much if they're just a square.
30:08 Mike Smith? Exactly. Yeah, I could just be eating like a graham cracker.
30:12 Jeff Larson? Yeah.
30:12 Mike Smith? Not the same.
30:13 Wes Larson? They have been seen, even though they prefer Antarctic and sub Antarctic waters, they have been seen in places like South Africa, New Zealand, Tasmania. There's even an attack that happened in South Africa that we're going to cover when we do this animal again, because I do think this is an animal that we'll probably come back to at some point. But those, those sea leopards or leopard seals, see, I'm stuck in sea leopard mode. Those leopard seals probably just wandered to those places. They don't have resident populations in those places. It's just a wandering leopard seal that decided to go up to wherever. And they've actually been found as far north as the Cook Islands, which is pretty crazy because you're in like tropical seas at that point.
30:53 Wes Larson? They're solitary outside of breeding season, but because they live in such harsh conditions, they're relatively understudied. And not a ton is known about their breeding cycle. We do know that they like to vocalize a lot during breeding season. Mike, you like to vocalize a lot, right?
31:10 Mike Smith? Shouting. Yeah. I always say, holy cow. That's my go to line.
31:16 Jeff Larson? You say, call me daddy.
31:19 Mike Smith? I just, I'm never gonna have children. I need someone to say it.
31:22 Wes Larson? Yeah, just to make you feel that, that paternal feeling.
31:26 Mike Smith? Yeah, it's natural.
31:27 Wes Larson? Males, males vocalize the most and their vocalizations are really interesting. They're often to either attract mates or establish dominance. But they're, they're really crazy sounding. They kind of sound like high pitched pigeon cooing or even like crickets chirping. I'll probably, I'll probably cue up a clip for us to listen to of some sea leopard. Oh, God, I gotta stop saying that.
31:50 Mike Smith? No, keep saying it's so much cooler.
31:52 Wes Larson? Vocalizations, yeah.
32:05 Wes Larson? Pretty much all pinnipeds are extremely athletic in the water. That's their their environment that they're most comfortable in. They can swim at speeds of 25 miles per hour or 40 kilometers per hour. And they can dive up to 304 meters, which is roughly 1,000 feet.
32:20 Jeff Larson? What?
32:21 Wes Larson? It's crazy. They have higher blood flow than lots of animals and their blood contains higher percentages of myoglobin. And myoglobin is a protein that transports and stores oxygen. So they're pretty much just like little mini scuba machines, like scuba tanks. Where they have a higher percentage of oxygen in their blood. So they're able to stay underwater for longer amounts of time, up to 15 minutes at a time. Which is a long time if you're a mammal. They have some really interesting dentition. Uh, so teeth with really prominent canines and incisors that look like teeth you would see on a bear or a big cat.
33:01 Jeff Larson? They got some scary teeth.
33:02 Wes Larson? They do. Their molars are shaped like little tridents. They have like three little peaks on them. And those teeth are super useful for a wide range of things that leopard seals eat. So I'm going to show you guys a picture of their teeth. And if you're out there listening, you should pull up a picture of leopard, like a leopard seal's skull. Cause it's really neat. All right. So this is an older one, a plate that someone made back, I think in the early 1900s. But you see these molars, how they're shaped like little tridents.
33:30 Jeff Larson? Yeah, it looks like the fire emoji.
33:33 Wes Larson? Yeah, it does. It looks just like the fire emoji. That's a great pull. So there's a reason they have teeth that are shaped like that. Based on their fearsome reputation, their number one food might be something that you don't really expect. It's actually krill. So most leopard seal diets are about 50 to 70% krill. And they use those trident shaped teeth as a way to strain water out after sucking in large mouthfuls of water and krill. So they're going to suck them in and then they just push that water out through the teeth. And that just keeps all the krill in their mouth. Yeah. And they have specialized little grooves too.
34:10 Jeff Larson? That's cool. It's like the thing you, the strainers that you put like noodles in.
34:15 Wes Larson? Exactly. It's like a colander, like a sieve.
34:18 Mike Smith? That's what I do with chicken noodle soup. I take a spoonful and then I press the liquid out through my teeth.
34:24 Wes Larson? Shoot the broth out.
34:26 Mike Smith? Yeah.
34:27 Wes Larson? Cool. That's pretty sweet. All right. And then they also have those sharp canines and incisors for their favorite foods, which is everything from squid and fish to penguins and other seals. So they're actually the only pinup head on earth that has been documented hunting and killing other types of pinup pets. And they kill a fair number of smaller seals like fur seals and crap eater seals. They also kill-
34:51 Jeff Larson? Pinup heads are kinda don't like them. They're it's like that one guy in the expedition probably for pinup heads.
34:58 Wes Larson? Ordely.
34:58 Jeff Larson? They're like, yeah, leopard seals are they're orderly.
35:02 Wes Larson? Yeah, if orderly were like killing and eating other people on the on the expedition, I would agree with that. But they also kill and eat a lot of penguins. So penguins probably don't really love leopard seals either. There was a study where researchers found that leopard seals killed about 12 to 16% of a gen two penguin colony that they were studying, which is a pretty high percentage of penguins that are being killed by leopard seals.
35:26 Jeff Larson? Yeah.
35:26 Wes Larson? They don't have flippers that allow them to grab on to prey like they don't have dexterous fingers that allow them to like grab something and they don't have teeth that are designed for chewing or shearing. So in order to tear apart something that they can't swallow whole, what they'll often do is drag it deep underwater to kill it. So if it's like a fur seal or a penguin, they'll drag it down. And then once it's dead, they come up to the surface of the water and they do a behavior called flaying. And when they flay something, they kind of do this big arc and just slap it against the surface of the water really hard over and over again, until it kind of just explodes. And then they can eat the pieces.
36:07 Mike Smith? Yeah, gnarly.
36:08 Jeff Larson? That's insane.
36:09 Wes Larson? We're going to Antarctica in 2026, and I think this is on the shortlist of behaviors that I would want to see the most.
36:15 Jeff Larson? That'd be so cool.
36:16 Wes Larson? Is a leopard seal flaying a penguin.
36:19 Jeff Larson? Yeah, it's like-
36:20 Wes Larson? It's probably gonna give you some heat. Yeah.
36:22 Jeff Larson? Suplexing Roman Reigns over and over until he-
36:26 Wes Larson? Until he explodes. All right. So I found three or four stories about leopard seals. I was gonna tell them all in this episode, but it was kind of getting to be a little long.
36:36 Mike Smith? Before you move on, could I ask something else just about their diet? Or I guess maybe just dietary behaviors in general down in Antarctica? Is there anything to eat that isn't meat? Is everything down there a carnivore? Or are there herbivores that exist down there?
36:51 Wes Larson? There are, I don't know if you count algae as like plant, but generally, and I'm not gonna say this like definitively, but I know in the Arctic, the kind of building blocks of that ecosystem is algae that grows on the underside of the ice. And I do believe that's the same in the South Pole as well. The sea ice, like, one of the reasons it's so important is it's actually a platform for these different kinds of tiny life to grow. And algae is one of those. And a lot of these krill and these other things are feeding on that algae. And that's what's actually like the building blocks of the whole ecosystem. So there is feeding, it's not just eating meat.
37:29 Jeff Larson? Small stuff.
37:30 Wes Larson? Interesting. Yeah, okay. So again, I like, I'd found multiple stories. I do think we'll probably just do another episode at some point, because some of those stories were pretty, pretty good, actually. But I wanted to tell the one that had been really requested, one that people have sent to us since we started this podcast. And that is the story of Kirsty Brown. So to get most of the data and the stuff that I used for this story, I used an actual peer reviewed study. It's called Interactions Between Humans and Leopard Seals. The authors were Shauna Muir, David Barnes, and Keith Reed. They all worked for the British Antarctic Survey, and it was published in 2006 in Antarctic Science. The reason I bring that up, I like to, I like to say our sources, but the reason I was so thorough
38:15 Wes Larson? this time is this is kind of a hard story. And when I, sometimes I'll go on YouTube and see if other people have talked about these stories. And I found a number of YouTube videos about this. And they really did it bad. Like, there was just... Unverifiable information that made it seem a lot worse than it was. And stuff that if I were a person that knew Kirsty, I would feel really gross hearing. So yeah, um, if you're out there and you're making this kind of content, I would just say do better. There's plenty of like crazy stories out there that have lots of really weird graphic details that you can use. You don't have to make them up for the stories that don't have them. It's disrespectful.
39:00 Wes Larson? So we don't like to do that on this here show, on this here podcast.
39:05 Mike Smith? I'll write that down. Make sure I stop doing that.
39:08 Jeff Larson? Yeah, I'll take the bear I added into my next story out.
39:14 Wes Larson? So in 2003, Kirsty Brown was working for the Rutherford Research Station on the Antarctic Peninsula, which is a research station that's operated by the British Antarctic Survey. She's 28 years old and she's part of a 22-person research team. And one of her projects involved looking at the way that icebergs affect the plant and animal life on the seafloor of the peninsula. So like scouring from icebergs can really disturb like these algae beds that we were talking about, animal life. So that's what she was looking at and she had nearly completed the first phase of her project, which involved placing nearly 500 markers on the seafloor that would show the kind of damage that was caused by these icebergs. She's very competent, a very well-liked scientist.
39:59 Wes Larson? She'd gotten her degree in geology. She'd worked in a lot of different fields, a talented photographer, and everyone really liked her in this group, which has to be like a very important thing if you're working in an isolated research base in Antarctica. You want to be a likable person. You don't want to be an orderly, you know? You want to be a Kirsty. All right. So Brown was really experienced field scientist. She'd done a lot of diving in cold conditions. She'd worked in Greenland as well. Uh, and she's no stranger to this kind of extreme weather that you're going to be dealing with in Antarctica, especially in the middle of the winter, which this was. And on top of that, I have to assume that if she worked in Greenland, she would understand kind of the pressures of working around potentially dangerous wildlife.
40:44 Wes Larson? Because if you're in coastal Greenland, you do have to think about polar bears. So she's probably like knows kind of basic wildlife safety scenarios.
40:53 Jeff Larson? Sure.
40:54 Wes Larson? But Antarctica, Jeff, does Antarctica have polar bears?
40:57 Jeff Larson? No, sir.
40:58 Wes Larson? No.
40:59 Jeff Larson? They don't have puffins either.
41:00 Wes Larson? No, what's their apex predator?
41:02 Jeff Larson? Antarctica?
41:03 Wes Larson? Yes.
41:04 Jeff Larson? Humans.
41:05 Wes Larson? A sight from humans.
41:08 Jeff Larson? Probably a leopard seal.
41:09 Wes Larson? Close.
41:10 Jeff Larson? Orcas.
41:11 Wes Larson? First one is orcas, exactly, which is the only animal that really preys on leopard seals. But as we've talked about on this podcast, do orcas really pose any risk to humans in the wild?
41:22 Jeff Larson? Nah.
41:23 Wes Larson? No, not yet. You know, we can cross our fingers.
41:26 Jeff Larson? So they're kind of like in all the ocean, right? Orcas, they kind of cover everything.
41:31 Wes Larson? Pretty much, but they're very common in the Antarctic Ocean.
41:34 Jeff Larson? Okay.
41:35 Wes Larson? Yeah, this is an animal that when we go to Antarctica, we have a pretty high chance of seeing. But the next main threat for Kirsty would be the resident leopard seals. And although generally they're not really around this area in the winter, occasionally they would see a leopard seal. And most people that have spent time in Antarctica had heard tales of potentially aggressive leopard seals. Those stories always seem to involve seals that were being really defensive or reactionary to something that the person was doing. Not necessarily stories like we have with Orta Lee, where he's just kind of out there minding his own business and a seal starts chasing him. The more common stories were like someone's out in the water
42:16 Wes Larson? and a seal kind of does some circles around them, maybe rushes in a couple of times and then leaves. You know, bites their fins or something like that. Pretty typical seal stuff. So even though risks are low, the researchers that were responsible for diving or snorkeling around this research center had protocols for observing marine mammal activity and then making sure there's no leopard seals in the immediate vicinity of where they're going to be diving or snorkeling. And Kirsty and her snorkeling partner followed those protocols before getting into the water on July 22, 2003.
42:51 Wes Larson? It's not a super cold day based on Antarctic standards like I think it was around 17 degrees this day, but of course they're donning like very bulky, expensive dry suits, really good gear.
43:04 Jeff Larson? And that's winter there, right?
43:05 Wes Larson? It is, yeah. So I mean, it could be like negative 100, but it was about 17 degrees, pretty calm day. They don all this gear, they get into the unbelievably cold water. And as they're doing this, they have two people on shore that are watching them. And I do have to imagine that their main concern is cold. Like when I worked in the Arctic with polar bears, we thought about polar bears, we thought about other wildlife, but the thing that was constantly on our mind was staying warm. And I'm, I'm sure that's what these guys are mostly thinking about too. So these two people watch them on shore as they push out into the bay. But whether they had failed to notice it or had slipped by undetected, a leopard seal was in the bay with them.
43:47 Wes Larson? And this new activity in the water had piqued the interest of this curious predator. While krill and squid were enough to maintain it throughout the winter, the seal wasn't about to turn down the prospect of a more substantial meal. And it's intrigued by these clumsy figures swimming around at the surface of the water.
44:06 Jeff Larson? I feel like a lot of times too, the biggest animals and ecosystems just are a lot more inclined to check something out because they're not really looking over their shoulder all the time.
44:18 Wes Larson? Exactly. And this paper that I mentioned talks about that, how like mountain lions in California or, you know, they had a different, a couple of different examples of animals that they're not necessarily like man eaters, but every once in a while they'll just kind of be like, you know, I've been seeing these things around, I'm going to check them out and maybe give it a shot. All right. So the two snorkelers are busy working on setting up their research grid. They'd kicked through this dark and cold water. And during this process, they'd separated from each other and had about 20 meters, which is roughly 65 feet between them. This could have been what the seal was waiting for as it watched. Years of hunting Antarctic fur seals and penguins had really honed its predatory skills
45:03 Wes Larson? and it knew that separation was key to both targeting and subduing larger prey.
45:10 Wes Larson? It focused on the smaller of these two animals in the water and shot forward. And as it closed in, the leopard seal realized that it wasn't a fur seal, or even a large penguin in the water, but something new, something small enough for it to at least investigate. As the team's watching from the shore, nothing seems out of the ordinary. They can see the backs and the back of the head of these two snorkelers with their pipes sticking up through the, their snorkels sticking up through the water. And then suddenly a scream from Kirsty shoots through the air and a large splash as she's pulled underwater. And the monotony of this day turns to chaos as this team scrambles to figure out what just happened.
45:50 Wes Larson? Her snorkel buddy, who's in the water with her, starts swimming really quickly over toward where Kirsty had been pulled under. And the team on shore is shocked to see Kirsty briefly resurface in the jaws of a leopard seal, which then immediately pulls her underwater again.
46:07 Mike Smith? Oh, man.
46:08 Wes Larson? When her snorkel buddy gets to this spot, he looks underwater and he can see the leopard seal about 17 feet down, or about five meters down, holding Kirsty by the fins and preventing her from surfacing as she's struggling in the water. There's really nothing he can do because these dry suits are so buoyant that you can't really dive down.
46:28 Mike Smith? Hmm, dude, that's the worst. Just like so, like you want so badly. I'm sure he was probably trying, like trying to swim down, just wasn't making
46:36 Wes Larson? Totally.
46:37 Mike Smith? any kind of progress.
46:38 Wes Larson? So what he does is he quickly swims back to shore to join the rest of the team, who are already getting a boat ready to go out and help. But when the boat gets to the spot where they had last seen Kirsty, they couldn't see her or the seal. And they're looking around and searching for her. And about 10 minutes later, the seal resurfaces with Kirsty in its jaws and her head is face down in the water. And they're about a kilometer away from where they had been.
47:03 Mike Smith? Oh, my gosh.
47:05 Wes Larson? So the team races out in the boat and when they get to this spot, they start, one of them picks up a shovel, which they had with them and starts hitting the surface of the water and then the leopard seal with the shovel. And the leopard seal does release its grip on Kirsty, but the leopard seal stays in the immediate vicinity of the boat. They pull her motionless body into the boat and they immediately start emergency first aid and CPR. They race back to shore. They take her into the medical bay of this research station. And they continue CPR attempts for about an hour and then she's pronounced dead at 4:50 PM on July 22nd, 2003.
47:44 Jeff Larson? It's a nightmare.
47:45 Wes Larson? Yeah. The team on the boat estimated this leopard seal to be about 14 feet long, which would be almost a record-setting leopard seal. And this is the first confirmed fatality of a human being killed by a leopard seal. Her death was ruled as an accidental drowning by leopard seal attack. She had a number of lacerations on her body, but she had died from drowning. And her dive computer actually showed, like she was wearing a dive computer on her wrist. It showed that the leopard seal had dragged her down to 70.1 meters deep, which is about 230 feet.
48:21 Jeff Larson? Uh, so she's kind of crushed too. That is probably why it's hard to partially revive her.
48:26 Wes Larson? Yeah, I don't, I don't think it would.
48:28 Jeff Larson? Just because I know drowning in cold water, you kind of get a longer time to come back, but.
48:35 Wes Larson? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if 230 feet would crush you.
48:40 Jeff Larson? But it does stuff to your insides, I think.
48:42 Wes Larson? Yeah. I mean, if she went down that deep and then it immediately pulled her back up, she could get decompression sickness, all sorts of things. Her lungs could explode, but I think probably by the time it even dragged her down that deep, she was gone. It doesn't, and something we talked about before is like, if you're just trying to hold your breath in the water, it can take you a very long time to drown. But if you're in like a struggle underwater or trying to hold your breath, it goes a lot quicker. You can die much quicker. So I doubt this was very long, but unfortunately she did die. She has this really terrible distinction of being the only person ever killed by a leopard seal. It's impossible to say what the motivation, the actual motivation of this leopard seal was.
49:26 Wes Larson? But the study that I used, which was written by researchers that work in Antarctica, I assume they're Pinniped experts, hypothesized that this was a predatory attack by this seal. And I tend to agree. And I think the reason I think that is its behavior after grabbing her, pulling her down and drowning her, and then resurfacing with her is what they do with larger prey. It's really fortunate that they got out to her before it tried to do what it does with like a penguin or a fur seal. You know, once they bring them back up to the surface, which we already talked about, they were able to recover her body before that started happening, which is great. All right. So that is a really tragic, unfortunate thing that
50:08 Wes Larson? happened. I do, I mean, I, as someone who's worked in some pretty extreme environments, doing what I love, that is part of the appeal to a lot of people that do these sort of things is that there is this element of uncertainty and, and wilderness. And, and I do think, you know, from reading about Kirsty, she was doing what she loved. She knew there was risks involved in Antarctic research, anyone does. And I think it's beautiful that she was able to live a life so full of adventure. Yeah. And that
50:42 Jeff Larson? Sounds like she did a lot more in her like time on earth than a lot of people who live a lot longer than she
50:50 Wes Larson? Yeah. If you work from a cubicle, you know, you're not ever going to get killed by a leopard seal, but you might not be like quite as happy as Kirsty was, you know, and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with working from a cubicle.
51:01 Jeff Larson? I've got a lot of people in cubicles right now, just crumpling paper all mad at you.
51:07 Wes Larson? I'm not saying that. I'm just saying like, I feel terrible for Kirsty and her family and anyone that knew her.
51:13 Jeff Larson? Yeah.
51:14 Wes Larson? But I am happy that she was able to go out and live, live out her dreams.
51:18 Mike Smith? Yeah, that is nice.
51:19 Wes Larson? All right. So really quickly, before we get to our categories, I do just want to talk briefly about what you should do in an interaction like this. I think very few people in our audience have to really worry about ever having an interaction with a leopard seal. But it can happen. They're very rare. There have been really, really few events that were possibly predatory events like Kirstie's or the Lee. And when they do happen, when those events happen, they usually don't see the seal before it happens because they're really sneaky. And the way they, the sneakiest thing they do is they follow shadows underneath the ice. So they can like see penguins moving on the ice by their shadows.
51:59 Wes Larson? And there was a lot of stuff in these papers I read and whatnot about mistaken identity. And I personally don't ever like to say mistaken identity when they're like in the water with something with sharks or with seals or whatever. I don't think that does them justice. I think if a leopard seal swims up to a snorkel or it's not like, oh, I think this is a fur seal. They know it's not a fur seal. But if it's a shadow underneath the ice, I think there's a good argument for that, you know?
52:27 Jeff Larson? Yeah, like their initial interest could have been this is seals or something.
52:32 Wes Larson? Right. And then once they shoot up out of the ice, they're kind of already invested. Like they've already switched and I'm trying to kill this mode. But the main thing is just avoiding an encounter in the first place. So leopard seals hunt on the edge of the pack ice. So if you're wanting to avoid this animal, avoid pack ice edges or be cautious around them. If you're going to be diving in Antarctic waters or places where leopard seals have been seen, do a thorough scan. Make sure that there's not one around before you enter the water and stay in groups when you are in the water. If you do happen to be approached by a leopard seal in the water, stay calm. Face the seal, like don't let it get behind you or get your flippers or anything. And then just try and retreat slowly.
53:15 Wes Larson? And I do just want to mention Kirstie didn't do anything wrong. Her team didn't do anything wrong. They're following protocols and this was a really tragic on, you know, something that you couldn't plan for.
53:25 Jeff Larson? Yeah. What I guess, uh, Paint a picture of what's her snorkeling there would have maybe like been like.
53:33 Wes Larson? Uh, relatively clear water. They, they said that like the visibility was over thirty feet, but probably like pretty quick drop offs. And I don't know, not a great field of view. I'm not imagining that she probably even saw this leopard seal sneaking up.
53:47 Jeff Larson? Like, has she seen a lot of fish? Is there like a lot of stuff in the water there?
53:51 Wes Larson? No, I'm guessing it's pretty devoid of life, but I don't know. I've never, I've never like been underwater in Antarctica. I'd love to do it. I've seen some beautiful videos of people doing it, but any other questions before we move on to categories?
54:03 Jeff Larson? I'd say just like also for leopard seal, like precaution. If it's on the first story, when it gets up out of the water, I'd say it's almost like a goose or something where it's like, just don't fall over and you're gonna be alright.
54:20 Jeff Larson? Where there's that lady on the beach, there's that video that always goes like viral when someone reposts it, where she just keeps falling over and it like seal is like, it looks like it's just trying to chase her away, but eventually it's like, okay, lady, you're getting bit. Not getting out of my way. Like, just don't panic and just like move.
54:42 Wes Larson? Yep, I think that's good advice.
54:43 Mike Smith? If you brought your bike, hop on it, ride away. What's the situation like down in Antarctica now as far as long-term or even permanent residents? Are there people that live there year round now or is it still?
54:56 Wes Larson? Just research. Just researchers. As far as I know, the only communities there are research communities. And I think there's something like forty thousand people that visit Antarctica every year. As far as permanent residents, it's just researchers.
55:11 Jeff Larson? Does like any country try to claim it or is it just kind of?
55:14 Wes Larson? No, there's an Antarctic treaty that establishes it as kind of like a place of science. So it's like a lot of different countries have bases there where they do science. It's kind of beautiful in a way where it's this place that everyone just kind of has agreed. We're gonna learn a lot about our planet and we're all gonna kind of try and get along. And I could be over speaking there. There might be like a conflict that I don't understand or know about, but I'm sure there is, but from what I read.
55:41 Jeff Larson? Trump's probably gonna try to rename it to America. McKinley or something.
55:47 Wes Larson? Cold US.
55:48 Mike Smith? It's funny how no one can claim ownership of Antarctica, but the US was just like, yeah, we'll take the moon. That's ours.
55:54 Wes Larson? Yeah, exactly.
55:55 Mike Smith? Is it? I actually don't even know if like we, the country owns it.
55:59 Wes Larson? I don't think our flag on it denotes.
56:01 Mike Smith? Well, you don't think we even went there, Wes, do you?
56:04 Wes Larson? I do, actually. I do believe in that, Mike.
56:06 Jeff Larson? Ooh, that's controversial now.
56:08 Wes Larson? Don't try and paint me in that corner. I have plenty of conspiracy theories. That's not one of them.
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58:49 Mike Smith? All right, let's move on to our categories. We're going to start with with our favorite, our mainstay category, your favorite media with a leopard seal. I only know of two, so if we need to expand into just media in Antarctica, we can.
59:04 Jeff Larson? I'm gonna, I'm gonna do just a recent media in Antarctica.
59:08 Mike Smith? Yeah.
59:09 Jeff Larson? One of like the biggest voices for flat earth, flat earthers.
59:14 Mike Smith? Yeah.
59:14 Jeff Larson? Someone just paid for them to go to Antarctica and like see the sun never set. And it broke his brain and he had to like come out to all of his followers and be like, I don't know what to tell you guys.
59:27 Mike Smith? Oh, no.
59:30 Jeff Larson? And I don't know, I've always, I respect people who just don't believe anything they're told. And I think there's a lot of to gain from that, but like, when it's as much fact as the earth being around, I'm just kind of like, okay, guys, let's figure this one out already.
59:47 Mike Smith? Yeah, I think there's a healthy level of criticism of science and stuff. But like, I also really trust the scientific method, you know?
59:56 Jeff Larson? Well, yeah, you gotta differentiate what's scientific fact and what's just what the government told us.
1:00:03 Mike Smith? Yeah.
1:00:03 Jeff Larson? You know?
1:00:04 Mike Smith? You know, everything is scientific theory, like it's hard to prove anything as being like completely factual. I just feel there's a definitely a limit of skepticism to where you kind of turn into someone that's just a pain in the ass.
1:00:16 Jeff Larson? Yeah, I think it's good to question things. I've been, I've been annoyed with climate change stuff recently where it's just like, people completely deny it. And it's just like, well. I mean, you you recognize we're using more resources than any time in Earth's history.
1:00:32 Wes Larson? Putting more carbon dioxide.
1:00:33 Jeff Larson? Cutting more forests forests than any time in history. So like, I know that you know that impacts environment. So I don't know why you would say that, but whatever.
1:00:44 Wes Larson? Yeah.
1:00:44 Jeff Larson? But anyways, I was happy to see this flat Earth there.
1:00:47 Wes Larson? Yeah.
1:00:48 Jeff Larson? Kind of come to reality.
1:00:50 Wes Larson? Yeah, sounds great.
1:00:53 Mike Smith? Uh, I'm gonna go. So this one, I try, we've tried not to do this. I think at least Jeff and I, because there's a Pokemon for every animal out there.
1:01:00 Wes Larson? Yeah.
1:01:01 Mike Smith? But this is, this is one of my favorite ones. And it's like, it's definitely based on Leopard Seal, because it has little spots on its back. It's called Sphial, S P H E A L. And it's a perfectly spherical ball shaped seal.
1:01:18 Wes Larson? I like that.
1:01:18 Mike Smith? And there's, it's just like the funniest, cutest looking little animal. Here, let me read you its.
1:01:23 Jeff Larson? Does it evolve from seal?
1:01:26 Mike Smith? No, it's Sphial is the first level.
1:01:28 Jeff Larson? There's a Pokemon that's just seal.
1:01:31 Mike Smith? Seal, it's just called seal. Now one evolves into, what is it, like Dugong or something? But here, Wes, this is for your information. Seal is much faster rolling than walking to get around. Because it's, it's, you know, it's a speed.
1:01:43 Jeff Larson? Oh, that's smart. Leopard seals should try that when they're on ice.
1:01:48 Wes Larson? Just rolling into a ball.
1:01:49 Mike Smith? I actually am curious about this, though, because maybe this is based in some kind of reality. When groups of this Pokemon eat, they all clap at once to show their pleasure. Because of this, their mealtimes are easy. Do seals, like, do they clap when they eat? Or do they do any kind of gesturing with their?
1:02:03 Wes Larson? So.
1:02:04 Mike Smith? Okay, but yeah.
1:02:05 Wes Larson? There you go. Sphial, Wes.
1:02:07 Jeff Larson? Okay.
1:02:08 Wes Larson? You gotta look up a picture. I'm surprised neither of you picked this, but I'm glad I get to use it. I'm picking the movie Eight Below, um, which is a movie that starred Paul Walker and a number of sled dogs. And I remember it from, it wasn't my childhood, but I was probably like in high school. It's kind of a fun movie, and there's actually a really good leopard seal scene that's kind of scary, where it shoots out of the carcass of a killer whale or an orca. And they use. It was like Stan Winston Studio used an animatronic leopard seal for a good portion of it.
1:02:41 Jeff Larson? Oh, really?
1:02:41 Wes Larson? Good. I rewatched the scene. I actually like quite enjoyed it. There's a scene where like a dog is-
1:02:46 Jeff Larson? Movie.
1:02:47 Mike Smith? Me too.
1:02:47 Wes Larson? Yeah, well.
1:02:48 Mike Smith? I remember when it came out, it kinda like a lot of people joked about it. And that's like Paul Walker, right? He's in it.
1:02:53 Wes Larson? Yeah.
1:02:54 Mike Smith? There's a lot of jokes about, oh, terrible actor, stupid goofy movie. And I was like, I watched it and I was kinda like, I had to keep it a secret because I liked it so much.
1:03:02 Wes Larson? I think I cried when I watched it.
1:03:03 Mike Smith? It's good.
1:03:04 Wes Larson? There is, but there's another movie that came out right around then called Snow Dogs with Cuba Gooding Jr. That is not a good movie. And I think those got confused a bit too.
1:03:13 Mike Smith? That's what happened.
1:03:14 Wes Larson? But no, there's this scene where the Huskies like eating the orca and the seal like shoots out from inside the carcass. And it jumped scared me even like during just this little YouTube clip. So, all right, that's mine.
1:03:28 Jeff Larson? Mike, I pulled up S feel. It is a very cute Pokemon.
1:03:32 Mike Smith? Perfectly circular dude. Check out, I put a link in chat, Wes.
1:03:36 Wes Larson? I'll look at it right now. I need to see it.
1:03:39 Mike Smith? What's the next category?
1:03:40 Jeff Larson? Very cute.
1:03:41 Wes Larson? Uh, oh, it is cute. I do like it. It's got like little fangs.
1:03:45 Jeff Larson? It would roll pretty well.
1:03:46 Wes Larson? Yeah. Okay. The next category is one I created especially for this episode. It is called Seal of Approval. And the rules behind this category is I'm gonna bring up something that maybe is a little controversial.
1:04:00 Jeff Larson? Up with these two genius.
1:04:02 Wes Larson? Usually I'm just following Mike's, Mike's lead because when he does his subscriber episodes, he comes up with some fun ones sometimes. And you do too, but I think Mike is our reigning king of, of fun categories.
1:04:15 Mike Smith? At least experimenting to good or bad effect.
1:04:18 Jeff Larson? I was just meaning your puns.
1:04:20 Wes Larson? Oh, got it. All right. All right. So the rules of this is I'm gonna mention something that's maybe a little bit controversial about like how people feel about it. And a lot of these are just truly a little bit controversial. And you guys are gonna say whether you give it your seal of approval, meaning you like, like that thing, or you don't. And if you want to explain your reasoning, you can, or you can just say, I give it my seal of approval. And then you each get to pick two of these things. There's 10 things total where you get to ask my opinion on them as well. But otherwise, all of them are just gonna be both of your opinion. I'm gonna stay out of it.
1:04:58 Mike Smith? Oh, man. I'm gonna be so curious what you think about all of this, though.
1:05:02 Wes Larson? You get to pick two each. The first. Green apple flavored candy.
1:05:09 Mike Smith? Seal of approval. Big one for me. I love, love, love, love. Just behind that super fake banana candy flavor. Green apple is my second favorite.
1:05:18 Wes Larson? All right, Jeff.
1:05:20 Jeff Larson? So wait, I'm sorry. Is it just I say I don't have a limited amount of seals?
1:05:25 Wes Larson? No, you can give as many seals of approval as you want. You get to pick my opinion on two of these things.
1:05:31 Jeff Larson? I'm not gonna give one. I, I like the caramel apple suckers, but I don't know. I prefer lime for my green candy. So if it's not the number one green, I'm not giving it to it.
1:05:44 Wes Larson? All right. If neither of you are picking to hear my opinion on this one, we're gonna move on.
1:05:49 Mike Smith? I'm so curious.
1:05:49 Wes Larson? The next one is recreational day hiking. Like this is like just going for a little hike for a few miles up in the mountains for like a few hours, you know, this, we're not talking backpacking. Or like any real big hike in like a national park. It's just recreational day hiking.
1:06:07 Jeff Larson? I'll give this a seal of approval.
1:06:10 Wes Larson? Okay, seal of approval.
1:06:11 Mike Smith? Seal of disapproval.
1:06:13 Jeff Larson? In a city, get out of like the pollution a little bit, get some fresher air.
1:06:19 Wes Larson? Yeah. I think Jeff, yours is a widely held opinion. Mike, why do you dislike this?
1:06:24 Mike Smith? It's just even a mile outside of the confines of my four walls. Conveniences of life are just a little too far removed for me. Like I like being at all times, having access to all my little snacks and candies and a toilet and a shower. Who knows what could happen? I might need a shower.
1:06:41 Wes Larson? You might need a shower. Yeah. All right. We're gonna move on. The next one is pugs.
1:06:48 Jeff Larson? Ooh, I'm giving my ultimate seal of approval if I have.
1:06:52 Wes Larson? Ultimate seal of approval. Okay.
1:06:54 Jeff Larson? You know, I know it's bad. I know that like breeding dogs has got kind of a problem and pugs is like a big breeder dog, but
1:07:03 Wes Larson? Yeah.
1:07:04 Jeff Larson? I think we came up with something great with pugs.
1:07:07 Wes Larson? Okay, you do.
1:07:08 Jeff Larson? My favorite pug ever was in the movie Marie Antoinette with Kristen Dunst. She has like a pug and then she's gonna marry like a French guy and they just like rip her pug away and give her a French bulldog, but the pug was so cute.
1:07:26 Mike Smith? That's not really a thing for me. There's, there's a whole contingent of people out there who, who do the ugly cute kind of thing. And I just, I never had that. When I see a pug, I'm never thinking cute or happy thoughts. It's always just like, they're kind of gross. I feel bad for them. Should never have happened. So, no seal for me.
1:07:44 Jeff Larson? I'll get, I'll get Wes's opinion on this one.
1:07:47 Wes Larson? All right. Okay. I'm not giving them my seal of approval. And mostly because I do think a lot of pugs come from breeders. And I'm pretty against dog breeding. I think the only reason you ever should get a dog from a breeder is if you need it for a really specific purpose. Outside of that, I really think everyone should rescue. If it's a rescue pug, I'm fine with them, but I don't particularly like pugs. I think they're kind of like disease-addled, not great dogs. So, doesn't get my seal of approval.
1:08:15 Mike Smith? I'm also gonna ask your opinion on this one.
1:08:18 Wes Larson? No, you can't both. Can't both.
1:08:20 Jeff Larson? National, National Park After Dark said, when they were vet tech, or when they were vets, they got a ton of pugs, like, all the time. Cause they're just not healthy enough.
1:08:31 Mike Smith? Yeah, so sad to me.
1:08:32 Wes Larson? All right. Next one. Ring doorbell cameras. So the little cameras on, on like doorbells.
1:08:39 Mike Smith? Oh, huge seal of approval. I love these things, dude. You can tell when like, any packages get delivered, or I don't use DoorDash all that often. I feel kind of snooty even talking about using it at all. It just seems like the ultimate modern day convenience. But when something comes to my door, I want to be immediately notified, whether it's like a package, or, or food, or whatever. Yeah, I'm into it.
1:09:01 Jeff Larson? Yeah, I'll give a seal of approval. I think we get a lot of cool, funny content from it. I love when like, someone's walkway is a thin layer of ice and they fall down all their stairs. And because of the doorbell, you get to see it, you know?
1:09:17 Mike Smith? Oh, plus like, if it's Christmas Eve and there are some carolers coming around, you don't want to get caroled too. So you can just like, check your camera. Oh, man. I can't think of a worse situation than to be stuck in like, a doorway. Just looking at people seeing at you for a couple of minutes. It's the worst. I, I would rather, I would rather die.
1:09:36 Jeff Larson? Okay. Wait, I kinda wanna know what's is on this one because why'd he bring it up?
1:09:41 Mike Smith? That is kind of a weird, specific thing.
1:09:43 Wes Larson? You can do it.
1:09:44 Jeff Larson? Well, I, do I get two?
1:09:46 Wes Larson? Take on this one, I think. You both get two, yeah.
1:09:49 Jeff Larson? Oh, yeah, I'll do it.
1:09:50 Wes Larson? I disapprove. This is not a seal of approval for me, mostly because I think from what I've read, that these are often used in surveillance and like, police can access your Ring doorbell camera if they get a warrant or whatever. And I just kinda don't, I personally don't like higher levels of like, being recorded. I just don't care for it. But I do wanna rewind a little bit and say, that comes from like, a person that feels very safe and secure most of the time. And I do know that I'm privileged to feel that way. And lots of people aren't.
1:10:23 Jeff Larson? You like, live in the nicest neighborhood. Not nicest, like nicest people neighborhood.
1:10:29 Wes Larson? Neighborhood. I know all my neighbors. I'm a man.
1:10:32 Jeff Larson? Giving each other fucking pies every day.
1:10:35 Wes Larson? Right. So again, like, I get why people like having these on their home, especially the security they can give them. I don't like how they're used sometimes by cops.
1:10:45 Mike Smith? I would rather, I would rather live handcuffed to an NSA agent than be caroled to once.
1:10:53 Wes Larson? That's not true, but I like the hyperbole of it. Okay, next one. This one might get a little spicy between the two of you. Taylor Swift, recording artist Taylor Swift.
1:11:06 Jeff Larson? Hmm. Seal of approval, big time. I just love her too. Like, I like her music a lot. I think it's gotten a lot better. Like, it's edgier, which I like.
1:11:15 Mike Smith? Really? I think it's gotten worse, if anything. I like her early stuff, but whatever.
1:11:19 Jeff Larson? Vigilante shit is just, I put that on all the time. Like, song about revenge. She's like, getting after people, spilling tea. And then, I also think, I, I love the NFL. And there's been some high-profile NFL partners, like Gisele, Josh Allen's marrying someone, uh, the Bumblebee actress, I forget, Haley Stein, Steinfield or something. But like,
1:11:50 Jeff Larson? I don't know, Taylor Swift is such a good fan of the NFL. Like you'll watch her just like banging on the glass and she's always like so attentive and you can just tell she loves the games. Someone was lip reading and she's like, I'm gonna kill myself if they don't get this first down. And that's like how I feel when I'm watching a game. So I think she's a true fan of football, which I really respect. And I think that's cool.
1:12:15 Mike Smith? Yeah.
1:12:16 Jeff Larson? I'm like, I think she's a really good partner to Travis. I think a lot of people struggle to like completely support their partners. I don't know. I just like their relationship. I think they support each other really well.
1:12:29 Mike Smith? Yeah, that's great. I'm not gonna give my seal of approval. I've just never been the biggest fan. I actually did quite like a few of her first couple albums. I thought were pretty interesting and good pop listening. I wasn't quite mainstream pop quite yet at the time, but never all the way connected with her music. I respect her a lot more than I actually like her. I think she's found some really interesting and novel ways to game the system in her favor. And like those, it's the rules of the game. Everyone's playing by the same rules. She's winning and you gotta respect it. But I just have never, never really heard a song that I was like, oh, that's going on the playlist kind of thing, you know?
1:13:06 Jeff Larson? All right. Shout out to Audre Douglas, longtime toothy, who was like a huge part of the era's tour, one of her main dancers for like all of it.
1:13:16 Mike Smith? That's cool. Yeah. Wes, I wanna, I wanna hear your opinion.
1:13:19 Wes Larson? Ah, man, you guys are picking all the ones I'm kind of sour about. I'm, I'm doing disapproval. No seal of approval on this one. I, I agree that she has some real like earworm songs and I don't, I'm not like a hater. I'm just kind of neutral. I think where I differ from you, Mike, is I don't really like the way that she's kind of game the system where when there's a big release from another artist, she seems to release like B-sides.
1:13:43 Mike Smith? Snipe them with a new addition.
1:13:45 Wes Larson? Version of whatever to stay on the charts. It does work and I think it's been really effective for her.
1:13:49 Jeff Larson? Part of that was because people owned all of her older stuff though. So she like wanted to kind of take it away from like the big companies.
1:13:59 Wes Larson? It's the timing though that gets me. It's always like right when there's some other big breakthrough album.
1:14:06 Mike Smith? There's like several versions of the same album with like an extra track here that releases in Europe specifically when whatever, we don't have to get too deep into it, but.
1:14:16 Wes Larson? And I just, I don't know.
1:14:17 Mike Smith? I just.
1:14:17 Wes Larson? She's playing the rules.
1:14:18 Jeff Larson? Listen, a lot of.
1:14:20 Wes Larson? I think of all the billionaires, she might be my favorite, but that's not saying much.
1:14:24 Jeff Larson? You don't like billionaires. That's a good point. I want to, for all the Swifties, just like ring in their whatever right now.
1:14:33 Wes Larson? You got a shooter here. You got a shooter here with.
1:14:35 Jeff Larson? I want to say one other thing. I think she's been like really empowering for women, which I like a lot because I think when she was growing up, she was always kind of told how to act, like how to talk. There's a very just like, you have to be like the innocent American girl. And I like that she's like, kind of opened up and started like talking about a sex life, which, you know, it's unfairly been like, women can't talk about that stuff. They're viewed as whatever. And I think she's opened the door to a lot of just women empowerment for
1:15:09 Wes Larson? Sure.
1:15:10 Jeff Larson? how she's gone against how she's supposed to be.
1:15:12 Mike Smith? No, a lot of, I know a lot of women and young girls especially look up to her and there's way worse role models out there. So.
1:15:21 Wes Larson? All right.
1:15:22 Mike Smith? Keep doing your thing, Taylor.
1:15:23 Wes Larson? The next one is the word moist. Moist.
1:15:28 Jeff Larson? I'll give a seal approval. I don't mind it. I know people hate it. I think it, I think it fits the, the description of the word fits like what it is very well.
1:15:38 Wes Larson? Yeah.
1:15:39 Jeff Larson? You know?
1:15:40 Mike Smith? It's not a word that bothers me, so I guess I approve of it. Like, I'm glad it is a word. I think it's a useful one in certain circumstances. So sure, why not? Let's keep it.
1:15:51 Wes Larson? We'll move on. Black licorice.
1:15:53 Mike Smith? Oh, huge seal. He, huge seal of approval.
1:15:57 Jeff Larson? Oh, man. I love it.
1:15:59 Mike Smith? I'm curious what your opinion is, Wes. This is my second one. What do you think?
1:16:02 Wes Larson? You're gonna use it now?
1:16:03 Mike Smith? Yeah. This is a big one for me.
1:16:06 Wes Larson? I was kinda hoping it'd be the next one, but that's alright. We'll go with this one. I don't, and I feel kinda bad because it's another negative one. Nevermind, I'm not, no, I'm gonna veto this one. You're gonna have to save it.
1:16:17 Mike Smith? You do have one. Okay. You did have a veto left to use.
1:16:21 Wes Larson? I didn't mention that rule. I'm vetoing that one. Alright, uh, the next one is going to the movies alone. Like the movie theater, going to see a movie alone.
1:16:31 Jeff Larson? Yeah, I'll give it a seal of approval. I don't think there's anything wrong. I do it a lot, just because I think I prefer to go with people. I like to talk about the movie afterwards. Like, I'll always have thoughts that I wanna share with people I like, but like, I just hate planning anything, even as simple as going to the movies. So a lot of times, it's just like, this is the time I wanna go, so I'm just gonna go and not invite anyone.
1:16:56 Mike Smith? Yep. Big seal of approval for me too. I, I'm the kind of person, whenever there's plans that involve anyone more than just myself, I kind of let other people make decisions because I'm going to be okay. I'm gonna be happy with whatever happens. So I let them have whatever's gonna make them happy. But it is nice to take some time for myself. And I believe like, not just the movies, but even going out to eat, I think is really pleasant. Like at a sit-down restaurant even.
1:17:21 Wes Larson? Oh yeah.
1:17:21 Mike Smith? You always kinda strike up a nice little rapport with your server, the waiter, waitress. Just doing anything by yourself, I think is, uh, not just enjoyable, but I think healthy as well. I think it's really good for you to be able to do that.
1:17:35 Wes Larson? Yeah. You don't need to pick mine on that one, but if you want to, you can. There's two more.
1:17:39 Mike Smith? I mean, you vetoed and you said you wanted to talk about this.
1:17:43 Wes Larson? I think you already know how I feel about this one. So it's alright. You can pick one of the next two.
1:17:47 Mike Smith? Sure.
1:17:48 Wes Larson? Okay. The faint smell of cigarette smoke.
1:17:52 Jeff Larson? Nah.
1:17:54 Mike Smith? You like strong scent, right? You, it's all or nothing for you. No seal of approval for me. No.
1:18:00 Wes Larson? Neither of you.
1:18:01 Mike Smith? Nope.
1:18:02 Wes Larson? Okay.
1:18:03 Mike Smith? Coffee, now we're talking, but no cigarettes.
1:18:06 Jeff Larson? Nah, and like someone who smells like cigarettes, I don't really like that either.
1:18:11 Wes Larson? Alright. You saving it for the last one, Mike?
1:18:13 Mike Smith? Yeah.
1:18:14 Wes Larson? Okay.
1:18:14 Jeff Larson? It's a weird one you like. I know you like, I can tell that you like it. That's weird.
1:18:19 Wes Larson? I can't say anything. Alright, the last one is diarrhea.
1:18:24 Mike Smith? Oh, man.
1:18:27 Mike Smith? I don't even know how I truly feel anymore.
1:18:30 Jeff Larson? You wanna hear Wes on this?
1:18:31 Mike Smith? I do, I really do.
1:18:32 Jeff Larson? Um, no, I, I, as someone, as the expert of us three.
1:18:39 Mike Smith? Seasoned veteran.
1:18:40 Jeff Larson? It kinda, it sucks. It's pretty inconvenient because, especially when it's just, you're not getting it all out. So then you know, like, when you go somewhere later, it's gonna hit you again and, uh, spicy food is just delicious and it'll trigger it. So, yeah, I don't like it. All right, Mike?
1:19:02 Mike Smith? This, I feel like I'm finally having to like, walk through the pearly gates and get judged here. Uh, finally have to make a decision. Cause I honestly, it's been such a long running bit between all of us. I don't really know how I honestly feel. I actually think sometimes it's nice to just purge the system though. You know, you, you have a, a sick tummy and you just let it go. And I think that's incredibly liberating experience. So I guess the seal of approval.
1:19:31 Jeff Larson? I do think it feels the best of all the poops when you like, right afterwards, you feel the most relief.
1:19:39 Mike Smith? It's like post diarrhea clarity.
1:19:40 Wes Larson? I would agree with that. All right. So I, by, just by process of elimination, you get to hear my opinion on this. I, um, I'm gonna do disapprove on this one because I, I like, I'm blessed to have a pretty fast gut. And I kind of can control when I want to, to do a big job. And, uh, for me, so I, I've never like been someone that like, gets a lot of kind of satisfaction from going a number two. So I, I feel like diarrhea doesn't really pose anything but negatives for me. It's just kind of like, like what Jeff was explaining. It like, kind of chains me down. And I, I'd rather not have that be the case.
1:20:24 Mike Smith? Did you ever have to take laxatives when you were on the wrestling team to make weight?
1:20:29 Wes Larson? I didn't on wrestling. I, I once had to take laxatives after a, a really terrible experience in Mexico, which we talked about.
1:20:36 Mike Smith? That's right.
1:20:36 Wes Larson? When I did the enema, but that wasn't, that was the only time I've ever had to take laxatives, actually.
1:20:41 Mike Smith? You know what? I'm gonna, I'm gonna come right out and just say huge seal of approval. Just taking dumps, but like a lot of them. That's awesome.
1:20:49 Wes Larson? Yeah.
1:20:49 Mike Smith? Like you take a dump when you need to, and it feels good after you've relieved yourself. And you just like times that by 10 or however many times it's gonna take. It's great.
1:21:01 Wes Larson? All right, that wraps up seal of approval.
1:21:05 Wes Larson? We're doing another new, new category right now. This is one that Jeff came up with a while ago, and then I forgot and then kind of re came up with it. And Jeff reminded me that he had told me about it a long time ago. But it's just a general advice.
1:21:18 Jeff Larson? No, that's perfect. You're like the type of guy, we gotta make it feel like it's your idea.
1:21:23 Wes Larson? It's not, I'm telling you, it wasn't my idea.
1:21:29 Wes Larson? This is, this is gonna be our advice category, and it's gonna be one where in the future, we're probably gonna have people reach out and say things they'd like advice on. It can be silly, it can be serious, it can be whatever you want. For now, the working title is some nice advice will suffice. And today Jeff is gonna be our.
1:21:47 Mike Smith? We're not coming up with anything better than that.
1:21:51 Wes Larson? So Jeff, you got advice for us?
1:21:53 Jeff Larson? Yeah, I'm gonna do a quick one this time, but I think this is a great category and we'll keep it going. And I also wanna say, [email protected] . Or sorry, tooth and tooth and claw, or is it tooth and claw mailbag at gmail.com?
1:22:10 Wes Larson? Tooth and claw mailbag at gmail, yeah.
1:22:12 Jeff Larson? If you guys wanna write us in and like, just give us any situation in your life that you want our advice on, go for it and go ahead and pick whoever you want advice from too. But I wanted to just advise is a kind of in your list of things. Getting outside, I think, I think as humans, we've become too safe and we've like become too like enclosed in shelters and like, there's real value in connecting with nature. But I think it's hard to find reasons to go outside. So ultimately, my advice is getting into birding. Cause I think birding gives you a really good reason to go outside
1:22:55 Jeff Larson? and to have a purpose to going outside and looking around. So my advice is get into birding and let's say find 20 birds that are local to you. And once you check them all off, send it to me on Instagram and I'll give you a thumbs up.
1:23:13 Mike Smith? Oh, really?
1:23:15 Wes Larson? Download the app Merlin. It's gonna help you really get into birding. It's like a really cool app. It'll help you see what's in your area. It's just really fun. You can use it to like, listen for sounds. Birding's great.
1:23:29 Mike Smith? Ask your dad for some binoculars. Every dad has a pair of binoculars, whether they know it or not.
1:23:34 Wes Larson? They're gonna weigh 10 times more than the ones you would buy today, but they're gonna be great.
1:23:38 Mike Smith? Yep.
1:23:39 Wes Larson? Alright, that's Some Nice Advice Will Suffice, featuring Jeff Larson this week.
1:23:44 Mike Smith? It's suffice.
1:23:45 Wes Larson? Our final two categories are gonna be, well, actually, a quick three. We're gonna do first listener questions. Jeff, you got some listener questions for us?
1:23:53 Jeff Larson? Yeah, yeah, so there was like, a big week in sports and Super Bowl's coming up. So I just asked people for sports-themed listener questions this week.
1:24:04 Wes Larson? Alright.
1:24:05 Jeff Larson? And you might be thinking, listeners who hate sports might be like, I'm gonna skip this part? Well, just listen to this first question. Jules S. B. asks, if koalas played sports, which ones would they be best at? And if you want to, two people, Peter H. 99 and Julia Bayless 98, asked what sport a snake would be good at? So you can choose either or. But I'm gonna say koalas would be good at darts. I think like, for darts, you wanna like, be able to slow your mind down and get ultra-focused on that dartboard. And I feel like koala really empty their brain and just focus on that board.
1:24:45 Jeff Larson? And then like, you kinda get like, people with a bit of a belly who are good at darts and koals have a bit of a belly.
1:24:51 Mike Smith? Alright, yeah, that's a good thought. I'm gonna go with ping pong, because it's like, they have three paddles when you include their ears.
1:25:00 Mike Smith? Cause they're kinda shaped like ping pong paddles, right?
1:25:02 Jeff Larson? They are, yeah.
1:25:03 Mike Smith? The ref isn't gonna notice the diff- like, when-
1:25:06 Jeff Larson? I think you're allowed to hit it with your body.
1:25:09 Mike Smith? Oh, are you? There you go.
1:25:10 Jeff Larson? I think so.
1:25:11 Wes Larson? Uh, I'm gonna pick a snake and I'm gonna pick a constrictor. I'm gonna say the javelin, cause it can just like, wrap itself around the top of a javelin and-
1:25:23 Jeff Larson? Oh, yeah.
1:25:24 Wes Larson? And then just let go at the perfect time, so. It's not gonna get a lot of speed running up to that javelin spot, but just trust me on this, Mike.
1:25:33 Mike Smith? Sure, yeah, you're the expert.
1:25:35 Jeff Larson? No, I see that. I like it. All right. Avies asks, do you guys ever support certain teams just based off the mascot? My whole like life, I've loved the Jacksonville Jaguars because I like Jaguars.
1:25:49 Wes Larson? I don't think I do, but I'm not, I'm not a big sports guy. Uh, the Cubs I picked more because of their record back in the day. And the mascot was like a, a very lucky thing that came along with it. Otherwise I would have picked the Bears too, but I didn't. I just like that they were in a, like a perennial underdog. So no, I don't think I ever have.
1:26:10 Mike Smith? My dad came home from a business trip to Buffalo, New York once with a Buffalo Sabres t-shirt when I was pretty young. And they kind of became my, my de facto team I rooted for just because I hadn't really had a hockey team before that. And I did like Bison. They have a cool like Buffalo, I guess Bison. It's kind of a weird little mix up there.
1:26:30 Jeff Larson? It's like, it doesn't matter what their actual name is. It's just like, we're gonna be a Bison because we're Buffalo, New York.
1:26:40 Mike Smith? The funny thing about their logo though is that I liked the, cause they, they use the Sabres, the swords. And I thought, that's what I really connected with. I like the swords more than the, than the Buffalo.
1:26:51 Jeff Larson? All right. Danny BD. So Luka Doncic, huge trade, huge NBA news. A lot of people are saying biggest NBA trade ever. Uh, so they want us to compare the Luka and AD trade to two animals. So if they were traded with each other. So for my like ranking list, I would say like Luca's probably a cheetah because cheetahs like had the chance to become like one of the best ever for me. I just love cheetahs and they've like really proven themselves as one of the best animals recently. And Anthony Davis is still really good, but not like in the top. So I would probably
1:27:36 Jeff Larson? say it'd be like, uh, trading a cheetah for a hammerhead shark for me.
1:27:42 Wes Larson? Okay. Neither of them are gonna do very well in their new environment.
1:27:46 Jeff Larson? Well, I'm just saying that's how it relates. Like, that's how the, put the trade in my terms is like, you had a cheetah and you traded it for something cool, but it's not gonna be one of the best ever.
1:27:58 Wes Larson? Yeah.
1:27:59 Jeff Larson? If you guys want to pass any of these two.
1:28:01 Wes Larson? No, I'm gonna pass on that one. Can I let Mike answer it?
1:28:03 Mike Smith? Yeah. When, this is not answering the question very well, but I remember when I were bringing up Pokemon again, which are kind of animals, if you think about it. But I got a Charizard the first time I ever bought cards with my friend at the mall, and he had a Mewtwo, and I like Mewtwo more than Charizard. So he tried to like finesse me by trading me the Mewtwo for the Charizard. But they're not equally rare. Like, the Mewtwo is much more common of a card to get than a Charizard. And I was about to trade him, and his brother at the last minute walked up and he's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on.
1:28:37 Jeff Larson? Oh, man.
1:28:38 Mike Smith? He, my friend was so mad, but and then I got mad at him, because he tried to like, he tried to trick me.
1:28:44 Jeff Larson? Someone got me with that, with the Pikachu for Venusaur holographic.
1:28:49 Mike Smith? Yeah, so Don, Doncic is the Charizard and AD would be the Mewtwo in this situation. Like, just not, they're both cool, but like, they're on different levels. This is a crazy trade. I want, I just want to express that I personally think something illegal is happening. Like, honestly, something pretty shady, some kind of collusion. Something is gonna come out about this story and someone's, should serve jail time, namely Nico Harrison.
1:29:14 Jeff Larson? In any other profession, profession, like Luca would have a really good case and complaint, just being like, hey, my employer got rid of me for, because I got a little bit too fat.
1:29:26 Mike Smith? Yeah, right.
1:29:28 Jeff Larson? But in the NBA, I guess they can do it. All right, so Ally Spencer asks, will the Patriots ever be good again? Uh, she's a fan. I just wanted to shout out the quarterback coach, Michael. Uh, he's a toothy, so, you know, you're in good hands.
1:29:45 Mike Smith? Cool.
1:29:45 Jeff Larson? Yeah. SC Rocks asks, uh, what would be your preferred Super Bowl contestants and halftime performer this year? So I would have loved, like, seeing the Bengals in it and... I don't really know on the other side as much. I like the AFC teams, the Lions, Bengals and Lions, and then Taylor Swift singing it.
1:30:09 Wes Larson? I know it wouldn't have been possible, but if it could have been the Bills Chiefs, that would be my ideal. And that's because Bills are my team and the Chiefs I see as like the biggest villains right now in the NFL.
1:30:21 Jeff Larson? So your Super Bowl was last week?
1:30:23 Wes Larson? Yeah. So I, that would have been the most interesting to me, even though it's impossible.
1:30:28 Jeff Larson? Halftime performer?
1:30:29 Wes Larson? Halftime performer. Um.
1:30:31 Jeff Larson? Kendrick's a good one.
1:30:33 Wes Larson? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Been in the chapel room lately. I'd like that.
1:30:37 Mike Smith? That'd be a fun one. She put on such a fun show.
1:30:40 Wes Larson? Yeah. I really like, I'm still like really on a big. Slow Pulp has been like my band for the last few months. Sure.
1:30:48 Jeff Larson? What if it's like Pup?
1:30:48 Wes Larson? They wouldn't be a great halftime.
1:30:50 Jeff Larson? If like Pup was their choice, you would be like, this is the best Super Bowl ever.
1:30:55 Wes Larson? I'd be pretty excited. Yeah.
1:30:56 Mike Smith? Obviously for me, it'd be the Chargers from the AFC. I think NFC would be fun to have Joe Burrow and the Bengals there just because they're kind of like, Joe Burrow's been the better quarterback so far, but they're kind of having a parallel kind of career alongside each other. So that'd be fun just to see him face off. And then I think, again, just like maybe sticking with the San Diego thing, uh, having a Blink 182 performance because they're from the area would be like, kind of just a cool synergy between, I know that's not usually how it works. It wouldn't be happening in San Diego, probably, but.
1:31:28 Jeff Larson? Tatin Coles said, should Nebraska bring back being called the bug eaters instead of the cornhuskers? I had no idea they were called the bug eaters, but yeah, Wes would be like your star player.
1:31:39 Mike Smith? Exactly. I'll be the mascot.
1:31:43 Jeff Larson? And then S T Holmes asked, could all the Chicago Bears football players, let's just go starters, beat a brown bear in a fight cage match?
1:31:53 Mike Smith? So 22 players?
1:31:54 Wes Larson? Yeah, I think so. Okay.
1:31:57 Jeff Larson? Okay, last one. Not the doll asks, worst sports injury on the Ouchie scale?
1:32:03 Mike Smith? Oh, man.
1:32:04 Wes Larson? Anytime I'm watching and you see a bone break, like when they like slow it down and you see it break. I can't, it's like so.
1:32:12 Jeff Larson? Comes out of the skin.
1:32:14 Wes Larson? There's that one in college basketball, like five or six years ago. That just haunted my dreams. I can't remember who it was, but it just, they replay it. Yeah, over and over. That's what it is for me.
1:32:26 Jeff Larson? Yeah. Paul George.
1:32:28 Mike Smith? Paul George had a similar thing. The one, the worst one I've ever seen live, I was watching when Gordon Hayward had his like foot turned all the way around.
1:32:36 Wes Larson? Yeah.
1:32:36 Jeff Larson? And it just was like ultra zoomed in.
1:32:39 Mike Smith? Oh, man. I like it. It haunted me. Geez.
1:32:43 Jeff Larson? I'm gonna go, I watched the like WWE Netflix documentary.
1:32:48 Wes Larson? Yeah.
1:32:48 Jeff Larson? And Bret Hart's brother was like trying to come out from the ceiling and the straps broke and he just like died.
1:32:55 Wes Larson? He died. Yeah.
1:32:56 Jeff Larson? Yeah.
1:32:57 Mike Smith? That's crazy.
1:32:57 Wes Larson? Tough.
1:32:58 Jeff Larson? Crazy. It would be crazy like arena of eighty thousand people just.
1:33:03 Wes Larson? That was the Vince McMahon documentary, right?
1:33:05 Jeff Larson? Yeah.
1:33:06 Wes Larson? Yeah.
1:33:07 Jeff Larson? All right. That's it for listener.
1:33:08 Wes Larson? Not a great.
1:33:08 Mike Smith? Speaking of WWE, Jeff just told me to watch the Royal Rumble that just happened.
1:33:13 Jeff Larson? I did.
1:33:13 Mike Smith? And I, I watched it back and what's his name? Owens? Kevin Owens?
1:33:16 Jeff Larson? Kevin Owens.
1:33:18 Mike Smith? Just gets bent backwards. It's like seriously looked like he was in serious trouble when the last move, he kind of got like suplex tossed backwards onto a ladder. There's like thirty eight ladders in the ring at this point. The whole, it's insane. But, uh, yeah, I thought, I thought something pretty seriously bad.
1:33:36 Jeff Larson? It is kind of crazy.
1:33:37 Mike Smith? Well, yeah. Well, thank you, Jeff. That was a fun category.
1:33:41 Jeff Larson? Thank you guys for writing those. I'll do some more themed ones, I think. And it's just kind of fun. So next time, maybe more of like a West themed one.
1:33:51 Wes Larson? Okay. All right. We're going to move on to conservation corner really quickly. Um, with these guys, they are very understudied. So there's a really big range of how many, uh, biologists think are still out there. It's anywhere they think in like the two hundred thousand to four hundred thousand range. So they are a species of least concern. Um, they weren't really targeted by the seal hunting industry. When that was a really big industry back in the 1800s and early 1900s. So this is an animal that kind of got to escape that kind of pressure and it's done pretty well. They seem to be doing okay in the face of climate change so far. But yeah, it's one to watch because climate change is going to vastly affect their environment. So.
1:34:33 Jeff Larson? Yeah.
1:34:33 Wes Larson? Yeah. And then we'll move on to our final category, which is our claw rating. It's a new animal. All right. So our claw rating for leopard seals. Why don't you guys, why don't you go first?
1:34:42 Jeff Larson? I feel like this one feels to me like it'll be your favorite seal, Wes. You like, like big animals that have big teeth.
1:34:49 Wes Larson? Predators.
1:34:50 Jeff Larson? Yeah. I like others. I like my seals cute. I don't think they're that cute, but their Pokemon version is cute. I do think they're really cool. I don't know. I'd probably still have to give them like seven claws, put them at 364.
1:35:06 Wes Larson? Okay.
1:35:07 Mike Smith? Yeah. I'm gonna go seven as well. I like, I like all these pinup heads. They're, I'm a pretty big fan of anything that spends a lot of time in the water, just out of bias, natural bias, but like Jeff, I think they're seals. I, I even kind of like elephant seals just because they're so distinct. I don't know. When I think of a leopard seal, I'm, there's not one part of its body that like stands out as something that's super interesting to like, look at or think about. That's a weird way to put it, but yeah.
1:35:36 Jeff Larson? Yeah, it's fine.
1:35:37 Mike Smith? I like them.
1:35:37 Wes Larson? I, Jeff, you're correct because this is a big predatory seal.
1:35:41 Jeff Larson? Yeah.
1:35:41 Wes Larson? They are probably my highest. I, I would maybe put walruses ahead of them, but I'm going to give them an eight.
1:35:47 Jeff Larson? But walrus isn't a seal, is it?
1:35:49 Wes Larson? They're pinup heads. So they are like in the seal family. Yeah.
1:35:54 Jeff Larson? So you could call a walrus a seal?
1:35:56 Wes Larson? You could, in the way that you could call a dolphin a whale. Their cetaceans are in the whale family, but they're in their own kind of subgroup. So, yeah, I, I'm going to give them an eight. I would love, I think if, when we go to Antarctica, this is the mammal that I'd probably be the most excited to see. So I am, yeah, they're probably an eight for me.
1:36:18 Jeff Larson? Do orcas kill them?
1:36:19 Wes Larson? They do. Yep. Orcas are their, their one main predator.
1:36:22 Jeff Larson? Are they like, how do they avoid orcas? Do they just go on the ice?
1:36:26 Wes Larson? Pulling out on the ice. Yeah. So that's why they do spend a fair amount of time pulled out on the ice, even though they're more comfortable in the water, uh, just because that helps them feel relatively safe from their main predator.
1:36:38 Jeff Larson? And orcas like them then, orcas are like, that's a pretty good meal.
1:36:42 Wes Larson? Yeah, it's a good meal for an orca. They're not like necessarily targeting them, but, but it's not a hard thing for an orca to kill.
1:36:48 Jeff Larson? So I just wanted to talk about Wes alluded, like we are going to Antarctica February next year.
1:36:55 Wes Larson? Yeah.
1:36:55 Jeff Larson? And it seems like a trip we might be able to just keep getting spots for potentially. So like, if you're listening and you, it is very, we're trying to have cheaper trips as well. It's definitely one.
1:37:08 Wes Larson? This is our most expensive.
1:37:09 Jeff Larson? You gotta be financially responsible if you're gonna go on it. We don't want anyone to like, you know.
1:37:15 Wes Larson? Take out credit card loans.
1:37:16 Jeff Larson? Put out their whole future just to go to it. But anyways, if you want to join our waitlist on Trova trip, like if we get enough people on the waitlist, I think we can keep opening spots. So like, don't feel like you don't have a chance to go still, like join our waitlist and we can maybe figure it out.
1:37:33 Wes Larson? It's one of the most expensive places in the world to visit and we feel really lucky that we get to go there. But I do think like something with these trips that we've been doing is all three of us have pretty busy schedules now and like for us to set aside time to go on a trip, uh, we want it to be somewhere that we also want to go. So we've been picking places that we're really excited to go.
1:37:56 Jeff Larson? Well, and we've been dragging.
1:37:58 Wes Larson? On the list.
1:37:59 Jeff Larson? Mike to the places we want, most want to go. And this is the first one he's really.
1:38:03 Wes Larson? Yeah, finally, we got one for, well, not for me, but I'm, this one's gonna be awesome. Like if, yeah, it's gonna be really, really exciting.
1:38:11 Jeff Larson? I can't wait.
1:38:12 Wes Larson? Okay, cool. Well, thanks, guys. Uh, and we'll see you next week.
1:38:17 Jeff Larson? All right. Thanks, Wes. Love you.
1:38:19 Wes Larson? Love you. Bye.
Previous The Revenant: A T&C Movie Review Next Juliane of the Jungle Page updated November 4, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated