Dr. Joy Episode 486 (FINAL)

Cree Summer has played Freddie Brooks since 1988, and in Netflix's A Different World sequel, Freddie is back at Hillman as a professor. This week, Dr. Joy talks with Cree and Kennedi Reece, the Howard musical theater student Debbie Allen discovered and cast as Hazel, about what Freddie and Hazel share and what it took to bring a beloved show back for a new generation. Cree revisits filming the original "No Means No" episode at a time when date rape was just getting a name, and Kennedi talks about playing Hazel's friendship with Amir as a queer Christian herself. They also discuss the sisterhood that has lasted more than 30 years among the original cast, the dorm life that bonded the new one, and why Black girls deserve to be a little messy on screen. A Different World is now streaming on Netflix. About the Podcast The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. Resources & Announcements Want to reflect on this conversation in community? Join us inside our Patreon https://community.therapyforblackgirls.com/ community where we’re unpacking this episode together. You can now catch episodes of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@therapyforblackgirls. Be sure to subscribe to get new episodes every week. Did you know you can leave us a voice note with your questions for the podcast? If you have a question you'd like some feedback on, topics you'd like to hear covered, or want to suggest movies or books for us to review, drop us a message at memo.fm/therapyforblackgirls https://memo.fm/therapyforblackgirls and let us know what’s on your mind. We just might share it on the podcast. Grab your copy of Sisterhood Heals. https://www.sisterhoodheals.com/ Connect with Dr. Joy on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/hellodrjoy. Where to Find Our Guests IG: Cree Summer https://www.instagram.com/iamcreesummer IG: Kennedi Reece https://www.instagram.com/kennedi_reece Stay Connected​https://click.convertkit-mail.com/27uv20p9mpioh8edr34s8ug63w344hg/58hvh8ug08p6wzc6/dGhlcmFweWZvcmJsYWNrZ2lybHMuY29tb3JibGFja2dpcmxzLmNvbS9wYXRyZW9u Is there a topic you'd like covered on the podcast? Submit it at therapyforblackgirls.com/mailbox https://www.therapyforblackgirls.com/mailbox. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, check out the directory at https://www.therapyforblackgirls.com/directory. Grab your copy of our guided affirmation and other TBG Merch at therapyforblackgirls.com/shop https://therapyforblackgirls.com/shop. The hashtag for the podcast is #TBGinSession. Make sure to follow us on social media: Instagram: @therapyforblackgirls https://www.instagram.com/therapyforblackgirls Facebook: @therapyforblackgirls https://www.facebook.com/therapyforblackgirls Our Production Team Executive Producers: Dennison Bradford & Gabrielle Collins Director of Podcast & Digital Content: Ellice Ellis Producer: Ndeye Thioubou Production Assistant: Bria Mosley See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

• 0:10Speaker 00

  Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at therapyforblackgirls.com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional.

• 0:55Speaker 00

  Hey y'all. Thanks so much for joining us for session 486 of the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. Today, I'm heading back to Hillman with two very special guests. But first, a quick word from our sponsors.

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  Host Nora Mecklener is back for an all-new season of The Head Start, embracing the journey brought to you in partnership with ABV. As Nora continues her conversations with people living with chronic migraine, she's also reconnecting with familiar voices from seasons past to see where they are now on their journey. Of course, she'll be joined by headache specialist Dr. Christopher Rhine, who offers insight into these challenges and the questions many of us have. So don't miss season four of The Head Start: Embracing the Journey. Listen on the iHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 3:34Speaker 00

  In 1988, a whole generation met Freddie Brooks, the free spirit at Hillman College who believed in magic and cared about every living thing on this earth. Now Freddie is back as Professor Brooks, a lawyer teaching the class everybody wants to get into. And there's a new freshman on campus who reminds a lot of us of her. Hazel is a church girl from small-town Illinois who will pray for you and ask for your vote for Ms. Gilbert in the same breath. I'm so excited to welcome Cree Summer, who has played Freddie since the original series, and Kennedy Reese, who was a junior at Howard when Debbie Allen found her and cast her as Hazel. Cree took me back to filming No Means No, the episode that gave a lot of young women language for date rape for the first time. Kennedy talked

• 4:17Speaker 00

  about playing Hazel's storyline with Amir as a queer Christian herself, and why it matters to see a black girl on screen who's allowed to be a little messy. We also chatted about the sisterhood that has carried the original cast for more than 30 years and is forming now with the new one. And y'all, the way these two love on each other, you'll definitely want to hear it. So press play and let's dive into the conversation.

• 4:47Speaker 00

  Well, thank you both so much for joining me today, Cree and Kennedy.

• 4:51Speaker 05

  Pleasure.

• 4:51Speaker 03

  Thank you for having us.

• 4:53Speaker 00

  I have been so excited to watch both the original, A Different World, and this reboot. I'm now on my third re-watch. I've been telling people and it has been so incredible. So I'm so excited to chat with you.

• 5:03Speaker 05

  What?

• 5:04Speaker 00

  I know. So I watched it once because we got the screeners and then I watched it again when it like showed for everybody. And then my 13-year-old wanted to watch it and so I'm re-watching with him now. So it has been a very fun interaction for us.

• 5:18Speaker 05

  I love that.

• 5:20Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yes, yes. So Cree, I want to start with you because we, of course, originally met Freddie in 1988 and now we are seeing her again, the grown-up version of Freddie. She is now a lawyer and a professor, teaching the class that everybody wants to get into, right? Like it's a very popular class. So what in your reading of the new iteration of Freddie do you feel like you recognize from when you played Freddie the first time?

• 5:46Speaker 05

  Well, Freddie was always, first of all, unabashedly herself, which is a very rare thing, coming into college as a freshman, to have the audacity to already be yourself under any circumstance, right? I'm very proud of her for that. But you know, she was also a little naive, a little flighty. There was lots of falling down stairs and walking into walls and things, but so compassionate. And that mighty heart of hers that went way beyond herself, that such a care for Mother Nature, such a care for, for human beings, for all earthlings, those things have remained the same. But what was nice to find her kind

• 6:27Speaker 05

  of drop into the gravitas that it takes to become a teacher, which is a very, very big responsibility. And I didn't see that coming for Freddie. But I like it. I like it a lot.

• 6:41Speaker 00

  What would you have imagined where we would see Freddie 20-plus years later?

• 6:45Speaker 05

  To tell you the truth, I don't think I really thought about it because 20-plus later, you just get on with your life. That's a long time, right? But when I was asked to think about it, because we were coming back, I thought that teacher fit perfectly. I did think that she would have a law practice. I thought she would probably be on the front lines of everything that's happening today, right? But I think it's very befitting.

• 7:10Speaker 00

  And then for you, Kennedy, we meet Hazel, who is this bright-eyed, bushy-tailed freshman from Illinois, you know, big church girl who will pray for you but also ask you for your votes for Ms. Gilbert.

• 7:22Speaker 05

  Right.

• 7:22Speaker 00

  What do you feel like playing Hazel made you recognize about your own freshman year at Howard?

• 7:27Speaker 03

  It was so interesting because I feel like both of us came in, like, I'm also from a small suburb in Illinois, so like me and Hazel kind of share that. And so I think we both were just super excited to be around people who looked like us finally and like not have that be the first thing that people noticed about us. I know, like, coming from high school, I went to a predominantly white school, and then coming into Howard, it was just so beautiful to just finally feel like I could be myself and not put on a front for anybody else. And I feel like Hazel really embodies that and she's the same way. Like, I feel like she is a lot like Freddie that way, like so unapologetically herself and just like bubbly. She's a little weird and quirky, but that's who she is and

• 8:12Speaker 03

  she's not hiding it for anyone.

• 8:14Speaker 05

  We always say that these two characters mirror each other to us.

• 8:18Speaker 03

  Yes, very much.

• 8:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was gonna ask, like, Cree, what do you feel like you saw about the character of Hazel that reminded you of Freddie?

• 8:26Speaker 05

  Honestly, sometimes Kennedy gets this look and this smile. It's just so authentic and so full of love and promise. You know, there's a couple of times when she's looking up at the boys and I just think, oh, that's Freddie, because we believe anything is possible. Hazel believes in magic. Freddie definitely believes in magic. They've got that beautiful innocence about them. So I think that's the commonality, you know? And even, even that ability to forgive, that beautiful moment when Hazel forgives everybody, I think that's very Freddie Brooks-coded.

• 8:59Speaker 00

  Anything additional for you?

• 9:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, it's the same thing. I feel like we just are so willing to love and willing to like put forth that before anything else. And so I just think it really comes across just in the eyes. And like, everybody also tells me that I just look like Cree and I love that so much. It makes me so happy. And so I just feel like just our demeanor and our overall aura, it's just like very bright.

• 9:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, that is a beautiful compliment. If people told me that I reminded them of Cree Summer, you would not be able to tell me anything.

• 9:33Speaker 03

  No, you cannot shut me up about it. I love it.

• 9:39Speaker 05

  That's very nice.

• 9:41Speaker 00

  So Cree, let us go back to the moment when you were first introduced to Freddie. You had already been doing Canadian children's television. You were already doing some voice work. And then you landed on this show that like introduced HBCUs to a whole generation of students.

• 9:55Speaker 05

  And to me.

• 9:56Speaker 00

  And to you. So who on that set do you feel like really helped you understand what it meant to be an HBCU student?

• 10:03Speaker 05

  But don't forget, I come from Toronto, Canada. There's no HBCUs in Canada. So that was a big revelation. I'd say Jasmine Guy. As soon as I walked onto set, she took one look at me and said, we're gonna be sisters. And she was an incredible scene partner. She worked with me. She went to an HBCU. Her father was a professor at an HBCU. And so she just had so much insight and never gate-kept. You know, it's a rare thing and I see it in this new cast too. And unfortunately Hollywood is not always a very generous place. And it is so refreshing. And it was a great, deep experience to have a cast that all supported each other. Jasmine was infinitely helpful, taught me so much.

• 10:47Speaker 05

  And I see that in this young cast too, the way they support each other and it's good. I mean, I think the reason you said to us that you're on now your third watch is, you know, people can smell whether it's real or not. And you can tell that this cast really loves each other.

• 11:03Speaker 00

  Are there other similarities that you feel like you noticed between your cast and this new cast now?

• 11:08Speaker 05

  Oh yeah, just the hanging out on purpose, the camaraderie. They all sing. We used to sing to the chagrin of all the older actors at all times. I mean, I just remember them looking over at us like, oh God, are they still singing? We had so much energy. We were rebounding off the walls. And just the immediate familial integration that I've been on a lot of sets. And Kennedy, you will have many, many sets in your future and just relish this one because this is very rare.

• 11:43Speaker 00

  And then Kennedy, Debbie Allen actually found you in the Howard auditions. And so tell me, what about your actual experience as an HBCU student was infused into how you played Hazel?

• 11:53Speaker 03

  I think just in the way that she brings in her community. Like my biggest thing and the most amazing thing that I got to take away from Howard is my friends. Those girls are with me till the day I die. We are so incredibly close. And I feel like having that community behind me and being able to experience just the culture of an HBCU helped me to just kind of live in it authentically. And then also since I was the only one out of the six newbies who went to an HBCU. I mean Elijah, she kind of like, a lot of her friends were at AUC, so she was around it. But I was the only one who actually went. So it was really nice to be able to like, kind of share like my knowledge about it.

• 12:35Speaker 03

  Like I talked to them about the pageants and how that works, how it's very serious business. Too, like all of it. So it was really nice to be able to kind of just like, share HBCU culture with people who hadn't like, had it ingrained into them. And yeah, I was just, it means so much to me to be able to be found on Howard's campus and be able to portray another HBCU. It's great.

• 13:00Speaker 00

  So Kennedy, I also want to know the timeline because was there a point at which you knew that you had been cast for the role and you were still on campus and like had to hide that from everybody?

• 13:11Speaker 03

  There was for a while.

• 13:15Speaker 03

  Which was really funny because so I got the audition my junior year, second semester. And everybody knew about the audition because multiple people like from the school like, had auditioned in person, some submitted videos. So we all knew about it, but nobody like was saying anything. So even for a minute, I wasn't sure if anybody else had gotten picked either. But they ended up flying me out to do the chemistry read during my finals week. So then it was kind of like, and with musical theater, like if you're not there, it's noticeable. I told like my very close people, I was like, if anybody asks where I am, just say family emergency. Like they won't ask anymore about that. But I had to reschedule like all of my finals and everything. So I was gone for like a week.

• 13:59Speaker 03

  And then not even a week, just like the most important days, I guess.

• 14:04Speaker 05

  The most important day.

• 14:05Speaker 03

  Right, you know? But yeah, and then I found out a few weeks later for sure that I had gotten the role. And I filmed the pilot and I still like wasn't telling any of like my cohort or like my very close like personal friends, they knew, but like it was really interesting. Cause then I go back to school and it's kind of just like, oh like.

• 14:31Speaker 03

  And I think at one point it had gotten like, there was an early leak or something. That's when my friends all found out and they were in the group chat like, Kennedy, what's going on? This is so crazy. Congrats. It was so great because they were so incredibly supportive about everything too. And they're just like, you so deserve it. This is amazing. We're so proud of you. Can't wait to see where you go. And it was just so beautiful to be able to celebrate that. And then when the official, official release came out, I was in class and literally my professor stopped class. And he was like, look at the announcement. We had like a whole dance party and like.

• 15:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was so beautiful and everybody there was just so supportive of me. Cause I feel like a lot of times people can think in those spaces, like it's very competitive because we are all working towards the same goal. This is a competitive field. But to be able to just be surrounded by love from my classmates and like, just feel supported in that and still supported to this day. They're always texting me. They're like, girl, you did so good. I'm so proud of you. You inspire me. Like it's just so like the love and support is amazing.

• 15:37Speaker 00

  Oh, I love that. More from our conversation after the break.

• 15:47Speaker 00

  You know us as an award-winning podcast, but Therapy for Black Girls is also helping connect you to real care in your community. As the year winds down, a lot of us start thinking about what we want to feel in the new year. If finding a therapist is on your list, start at the Therapy for Black Girls directory, where over 5,000 Black women practitioners are ready to connect. Search at therapyforblackgirls.com. And therapists, this is a great time to make sure you're listed and your profile is ready for the new year. Join us at therapyforblackgirls.com/start-hear. A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. Tune in for season seven of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenx.

• 16:33Speaker 00

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• 17:10Speaker 06

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• 18:03Speaker 00

  Kennedy, can you talk about for yourself, definitely as the person who was the HBCU student, but I'm guessing also for the other newbies. Was there any kind of pressure related to bringing back such a beloved show as like a new iteration of it?

• 18:17Speaker 03

  We get this question a lot and I'm like, I know like Malia said and everything, but it wasn't so much pressure as responsibility. Because like, we all knew the legacy and the culture coming into this. We knew how important it was and we knew how important the original show was to the culture and what it did for people. Like enrollment at HBCUs skyrocketed while they were on air. And that's like something that I can only hope for. And so it wasn't necessarily pressure, but we did feel the responsibility to do it justice and portray our world accurately and pay homage to the original, but also give the new generation something that the OGs had.

• 18:57Speaker 03

  Because we don't have a lot of Black youth shows. We don't have a lot of shows about HBCUs or anything. And so to be able to really dive into the culture authentically and then have the amazing OG cast just like have our backs throughout all of it, it's an amazing feeling.

• 19:14Speaker 00

  And Cree, what about you? When you heard that there was going to be a reboot, what were your feelings about this new meeting of the students at Hillman?

• 19:22Speaker 05

  Well, I think that all of the legacy cast had the same reaction. Debbie Allen has been trying to relaunch this show since it went off the air. That's 30 plus years, dare I say. And then Daryl Bell started trying to have it come back. And then I think once you get to year 39, you really don't believe it's possible. And you get on with your life. You're having babies and living your life. So when they told us we were coming back, Debbie told us, I think we were at the Soul Train Awards, about to go on stage and present an award and she said, we're back. And I think we all said, back where? And she said, no, we're going to do it again. And we said, yeah, okay. And I think we all just kind of went out and did it and then months went by and

• 20:04Speaker 05

  I don't think any of us really believed it honestly till we signed on the dotted line, till we started negotiating. And then the thought was just excitement. And just like Kennedy, I think we all had that same feeling. Let's do this justice. Let's make sure it's held up to the same beautiful standard that we first had. But I think we all felt like we were in good hands. We had Debbie with us and Felicia and it didn't feel like we were in trouble.

• 20:28Speaker 00

  So Cree, I also want to take you back to one of the early episodes from season two. So there was an episode called No Means No.

• 20:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, you are having a date with Garth, the star baseball player. And Dwayne says, you know, I've heard some things about you and you tell him like, oh, you're just jealous. Like you don't know what you're talking about. And then of course he tries to force himself on her on that date. Can you tell me what it was like making that episode? And then maybe what you remember about like the reaction to that episode after it aired?

• 20:58Speaker 05

  Well, what a timely question, given what's going on right now, first of all, right? Given what's happening in real time today, I think that conversation that Sinbad has with Kadim is so resounding. When Walter Oakes tells Dwayne, no means no.

• 21:17Speaker 05

  No matter what the circumstance. And then if I take us back in the time machine to when we made that episode, date rape was just starting to have the name date rape. It wasn't identified, really. You couldn't go to court and say, we're charging this man with date rape. It was just being born. And to name something is very powerful. So to be on the forefront of identifying it and naming it and claiming it so that it could be persecuted was a huge, huge thing. And to play that, talk about these characters, right? Hazel and Freddie, that naivete of just believing everything's going to be okay. And then finding yourself in that terrifying situation.

• 22:02Speaker 05

  And having everybody rally around and say they're going to believe you and encouraging her to go say something about it. As a matter of fact, I can get emotional right now. There's one line at the very end. I say to Kadim, thank you, Dwayne. I'm like, thank you for being my friend. And there's something about that that just tears me up every time. Because it takes a village to cover rape and it takes a village to heal from rape.

• 22:29Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 22:30Speaker 05

  Even attempted, right?

• 22:31Speaker 00

  Right.

• 22:32Speaker 05

  Something just coming close to your body autonomy is so devastating. And I'm really proud of Debbie Allen. I'm proud of Different World for being so courageous at a time when it wasn't happening. Feels like now, too. Now's a very dangerous time to be courageous.

• 22:51Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 22:52Speaker 05

  To tell the truth right now.

• 22:54Speaker 00

  Do you remember any reaction to that when it aired? Because you're right, like, we weren't having very many conversations about things like that. Definitely not in the black community, right? I did feel like that was an additional layer to that. So do you remember any reaction?

• 23:05Speaker 05

  I do. I remember girls coming up to me and telling me, I didn't know it was called date rape until that show. And they would say, it's happened to me. I didn't know it was called date rape. And I think it was very empowering. We have to identify these things so that we can really get into it. It shakes you up, you know? There's so much television out there and very little television for our people. And so to have a show like Different World that gets into the nitty gritty is so important. And I don't think people realized it until it came back. And you see the public reaction. Everyone's going, oh, we were starving in the desert. Thank you for giving young black people a voice again, especially now.

• 23:49Speaker 00

  And Kennedy, you know, kind of going back to our earlier conversation around how Freddie and Hazel feel like sister characters. We also see an experience that you have dating Jalen. And then we find out that there has been this hookup with Amir. Amir tries to tell Hazel about it and she calls him jealous and, you know, launches into this whole diatribe around sexuality. What were your thoughts around how that would be portrayed, especially to members of the GLTQ community?

• 24:16Speaker 03

  I think it was really important to show that because I feel like that's still a real reality of people feeling the need to hide themselves and hide their sexuality based on others' opinions and bigotry. And I'm really happy that I honestly got this storyline because it was able to show that you can still have love for those who live differently than you. And with Amir and Hazel, this is her first time, you know, coming into probably, like, any type of person who is gay. Like, from her small town, there weren't a lot of people who were out like that. And the fact that she was able to make such a close friend with him

• 24:59Speaker 03

  made her kind of realize that things that she has been told maybe aren't correct and that she can learn what her faith is for herself rather than what other people say that it should be. And so being able to have her be challenged in that way was really empowering, I feel like, because I am really happy that I was able to show that you can still be a Christian and still have love for others. Like, what they're doing has nothing to do with you.

• 25:31Speaker 05

  Thank you, baby.

• 25:32Speaker 03

  At all. So the fact that Hazel was able to overcome that, and even though it did hurt her, she realized that her love for Amir and her love for his situation and how hard, like, his life has been and how hard it can be in his community, that I'm just really glad that I was able to portray a character with that much love in her and honestly show my own love. Like, that's how I feel about the community and about everybody. So I'm just really proud.

• 26:01Speaker 00

  Hmm hmm. Yeah, and you've gone on record and talked so glad about how you think that Christianity can sometimes be very rigid and not, like, welcoming and accepting of people who identify as queer. How do you feel like that is expanding your own thinking around these kinds of topics?

• 26:17Speaker 03

  Well, it's really interesting because I am queer myself. I'm pansexual and I'm also a Christian. So it's something that has been at, like, heads with each other all my life, growing up in the church, growing up believing one sort of type of way. And then realizing that these things are not mutually exclusive in the slightest bit. So you can be gay, you can love God, like, there is no if, ands, or buts about it. And the fact that people love to separate it is just proof that there's so much sin in the world that is meant to separate us, when in fact, it's all love. Like, we just want to love each other. So, yeah.

• 26:59Speaker 00

  Hmm, thank you for that.

• 27:00Speaker 05

  See how beautiful my baby is? Look at this. I mean, what are you going to do? How can you not love this woman? She's so beautiful.

• 27:07Speaker 00

  Oh, I love you so much.

• 27:09Speaker 05

  So proud of you.

• 27:11Speaker 00

  Kree, do you feel like you are seeing a younger version of yourself in some ways, in the ways that Kennedy answers her shows?

• 27:17Speaker 05

  I really do, I do. I do. I think Kennedy really has the audacity to be herself. And it's very impressive. It's not an easy thing to do in your twenties. It's not an easy thing to do in your thirties, especially now with social media trying to make everybody exactly the same. I think it's to be yourself in 2026 is a revolutionary act.

• 27:39Speaker 00

  Hmm hmm. You know, you bring up an interesting point, Kree, around social media. And, you know, of course, there was no social media, at least in this way, when the original Different World aired.

• 27:48Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 27:49Speaker 00

  How do you think things might have been different if we had social media when it first came out?

• 27:54Speaker 05

  I'm so glad we didn't, first of all. Ain't nobody's business but my own, if you're getting the drift.

• 28:00Speaker 00

  Right.

• 28:00Speaker 05

  Thank God they didn't see what I was up to back then. Uh, but, so, thank you. But I don't know. I mean, I think, I think unfortunately, it might have been exactly the same. I mean, look, we have social media now and there are still topics that are, you know, people are trepidatious to talk about, right? It's just connecting more if you're talking about the Christian right or political right. Now they're gathering in droves and you can really be persecuted now, right? I think it's even more dangerous terrain with social media, quite frankly. Who knows what kind of backlash we would have had on that kind of platform at that time? I think it was to our, to our benefit that we didn't have social media then.

• 28:44Speaker 00

  Hmm hmm, yeah. More from our conversation after the break.

• 28:52Speaker 00

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. Tune in for season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenx. Hosted by public health and policy expert Dr. Martine Hackett, Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition pushes the conversation within the rare disease community forward. Featuring guests living with MG, CIDP, myositis, SMA, and other rare autoimmune conditions, each episode explores hope, progress, and connection. How does research create new opportunities? How do shared experiences help light the way forward? How do we best show up for each other? Tune in to find out.

• 29:35Speaker 00

  Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 29:42Speaker 06

  Hey, it's Niall Rogers, host of Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series. I'm driving across the country, meeting some of today's most fascinating artists. We're exploring the stories before the moment that changed everything. This week, I'm joined by Miguel. Man, I'm a black and Mexican kid from San Pedro, and I grew up in Inglewood as well. I never liked to be, like, boxed in. Hmm. Both of my parents colored outside of the line. I mean, even them being together at the time in LA was just not.

• 30:15Speaker 03

  Typical. And so I think that has always been a part of my DNA. There's a defiant something in me that feels like what we get to do with, with what we're given that's greater than us is to maybe connect people to ideas that they wouldn't naturally, you know, connect to. That's really me. I'm just kind of like defiant with love, though.

• 30:36Speaker 06

  Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 30:50Speaker 00

  So, you know, in Professor Brooks's class, we see that you do such a beautiful integration of talking about, you know, our prominent thinkers and writers like Bill Hoots and Audre Lorde. And we know that the Black feminist tradition has really done a great job of integrating both healing with intellectual work. Why was it important for this iteration of Freddie to kind of show up in that kind of teaching? And what do you feel like your own life has taught you about like how healing and rigor can intersect?

• 31:18Speaker 05

  Well, this bridge call my back, right? We've got this, what Black women have contributed politically and yet still not acknowledged for what we have done for this country and this around the world. And also, Black women being really for so long even pushed out of feminist spaces and having to find and create our own place to be and represent and our own intellectualism honored. But I do think that the, you know, it just brings us back to seeing young Black people in spaces of higher education, you know, to be intellectually

• 31:57Speaker 05

  sparked, have those synapses set off is a healing thing, right? Every time we read a book and see ourselves, we get healed. Every time we have these elevated conversations, a healing takes place, sometimes unbeknownst to yourself. Sometimes you walk away, maybe you got it on a cellular level and you didn't even understand the conversation, but you know, you just feel a little different, right? And I love that Freddie incorporates these things. I love that the entree into talking about social media was bell hooks. I thought that was very inspired, right? Because it is a thing that's supposed to bring us together

• 32:42Speaker 05

  and though it feels like it creates such a chasm of apathy. So.

• 32:47Speaker 00

  Thank you. So Kennedy, you've already talked about the authenticity to the Miss Gilbert pageant, right? Like that definitely felt like it was very authentic. I'm also an HBCU grad. I graduated from Xavier. So I definitely know that pageant stuff is a very serious. But in addition to that, what about your time on the set felt most authentic to your actual experience as a Howard student?

• 33:08Speaker 03

  I keep going back to community, but truly just how close we became as a cast. And I want to say specifically between girls and us living in like Whitley Gilbert Hall, the all-girls dorm and all that. Because I also lived in an all-girls dorm my freshman year. And when I say that was the best decision of my entire life, I feel like I just developed such a want and I realized I got sisterhood, like where I really needed it. When I got to college, I didn't keep a lot of my friends from high school. Some of the friends that I really thought were going to like be like my besties for life. And then I got to college

• 33:51Speaker 03

  and I got to my dorm and I realized what like true friendship and sisterhood meant by like living with them. We were always with each other and we were always there for each other. And being able to share that with Malia and Elijah in a different form bonded us as sisters for life. And I think it really shows up on screen. Like, you know, there's always that, there's the two roommates and then the one girl from across the hall who always be busting in their room. Like, don't live there for real, but she's always there. She's their third roommate. I had my very own third roommate. She's one of my best friends. It was so fun to be able to just build that community for screen. And

• 34:32Speaker 03

  it was just so incredibly authentic. Like, I literally, after the whole flood thing happened, I texted Malia. She called me immediately. She was like, are you okay? Do you need anything? Everything. So, and Elijah too. She was on it. She was like, are you okay? Do you need a place to stay? So the sisterhood that we built, like, it's so genuine and true. And I'm so glad that we're able to like show what true like friendship is on screen. Because I feel like a lot of times we see like friends doing each other dirty, especially like amongst girls and it's being very catty and all those kinds of things. And I think it's really important to show younger girls that like your sisters and your friends are the ones who are going to get you through life. No man or no partner or anything is going to

• 35:14Speaker 03

  do that more than the, your chosen friends and your sisters and all of those people. So I'm really happy to be able to show that on screen and have it be genuinely authentic.

• 35:24Speaker 05

  And it's not true, right? It's not true in the world. We've always experienced, you know, when you were talking about, what do you think about, one of the most revolutionary things is the way Black women have supported each other. It's how we've always gotten by taking care of each other. And it's always bothered me too, Kennedy, that on television, we're portrayed as not knowing sisterhood. If anybody knows sisterhood, it's Black women.

• 35:46Speaker 00

  Right.

• 35:49Speaker 00

  I'd love to hear more about that for you, Cree, right? Because it is really beautiful to hear Kennedy and Malia and Elijah talk about like this sisterhood that they are developing now, being the newbies on this cast. But you and Jasmine, have your own sisterhood and the other women on the show, can you talk about like how that has transcended throughout the time since making the first iteration?

• 36:07Speaker 05

  Oh, we've been through so much. I mean, Jasmine and I, my oldest daughter, Brave, is born on the same day as Imani, Jasmine's daughter. We've both been through coupling and separating and parents dying. And we've been through the gamut that happens when you have a 30-plus year friendship, a true one. We've cared for each other in highs and lows. And then to be able to come back and act again, it's fantastic. You know, and the same with Kadim, who was my true love, who my very first love, who still is one of my dearest friends and Daryl Bell as well and Charlie. I mean, it's, again, like I

• 36:47Speaker 05

  tell Kennedy and like I know Daryl always tells the cast, this is a rare thing. You go on to other jobs and you don't keep everybody, let's be honest. You know, we've all had several jobs. You go, I'll see you next time. And you know damn well, there's no next time. But with this, it really was magic. And I do think, to reiterate what Kennedy said, there's something about the setting of a college and an HBCU in particular, which is so deeply rooted in family, right? It's like you said, even the way Freddie's classes are taught, you know that everybody cares about you. Or Kennedy said that the class was stopped so the professor could say, let's have a dance party and celebrate Kennedy.

• 37:27Speaker 05

  That's indicative of an HBCU. And I think that energy and experience is what creates these lifelong friendships. It makes it real on camera because it's real off camera.

• 37:39Speaker 00

  So Kennedy, Felicia Pride has talked about nobody in this cast being perfect and everybody's messy, right? Like, all of the characters are messy. And then we see this kind of bomb drop at the end of the season. Then we find out that Hazel actually had a boyfriend at home, right?

• 37:54Speaker 05

  Hazel.

• 37:55Speaker 00

  You did not know.

• 37:58Speaker 05

  I know. Oh, Hazel.

• 38:01Speaker 00

  But I love to hear from you, Kennedy, why it maybe felt important to portray a Black girl who wasn't perfect, right? That it is okay to be messy and like you don't have to have it all figured out, which I don't think we always see on screen, right? Especially as Black women, there's this pressure to have it all together. What felt important about being able to kind of play a woman who was messy?

• 38:21Speaker 03

  Yeah. So I think I relate to it as well. Like you said, I feel like Black women especially are expected to be perfect all the time. No mistakes whatsoever. And I think especially with Hazel coming from like a church background and more conservative, she really holds on to the values of protecting like her image and making sure everything looks correct. And so the fact that she ended up cheating on her boyfriend was kind of like a bomb drop. But honestly, it's truthful. We're all kind of messy and we all make mistakes. We're young. Like, she is 17 years old. Like, she is young. She has a whole life ahead

• 39:03Speaker 03

  of her. And she's going to make mistakes. And not saying that you should ever cheat on anybody, because you shouldn't. But I think it's important to remember to give ourselves grace, especially when we are growing and learning. And I know a lot of people were like, oh, she was being a little hypocritical. And life is hypocritical. People are hypocritical. I think it's just, it's a truthful thing to show people that you don't always have to be perfect. You don't always have to put on a show or a mask for everybody because at the end of the day, it might make you act out of character, which I do think cheating is out of Hazel's character. I think she just was so worried about presenting so perfectly

• 39:48Speaker 03

  and having the perfect partner that she went a little crazy.

• 39:57Speaker 03

  But I do think it's really important to just remember that people are going to make mistakes, especially when you are young. I know I made my fair share of mistakes and I'm still making my mistakes. So nobody's perfect. Everybody's messy. And I think it's really important to have like the dichotomy of all of, yes, like she's achieved, she's disciplined, like she gets what she needs to do, all the things. But then also, things are a little messy and that's okay.

• 40:22Speaker 00

  So one last question for both of you. What would you like for Black women to take with them into their week, into their month, into their lives from watching The Different World reboot? We'll start with you, Cree.

• 40:34Speaker 05

  I hope they feel seen. There's such a legitimacy in being seen. There's such a disparity in how many times we get to be seen on television right now. And so I hope that they're watching the show and see themselves and say like Kennedy just said so beautifully, that we are all so many things and we're still lovable and we're still beautiful and we're still deserving of friendship and we're still deserving of opportunity. That was the beauty of the original Different World, is someone always sat at home and went, I'm Whitley, I'm Freddie. Well, now they're going, I'm Hazel, I'm Amir. And that's what I hope they take away from it. Because if you are Hazel, if you are Amir, then there's

• 41:17Speaker 05

  a possibility of you going to your version of Hillman.

• 41:22Speaker 03

  I think for me, similarly, that you see yourselves, but also that you know that who you are is enough and you don't have to change yourself for anybody. Because I feel like all of the girls on the show, and especially the three of us, me, Millie and Elijah, we are also unapologetically ourselves on the show, and we're all so different. And I think that's what's so beautiful is the fact that they're all so different, but they're all such beautiful friends and ride or dies for each other. And I hope that people take us away, especially from Hazel, just to be open. And you know, that bubbly black girl that we don't get to see very often, because you know,

• 42:01Speaker 03

  you're afraid of being coming off as annoying or coming off as too much. Like, I hope they see Hazel being like her beautiful, bubbly, happy self, and they just feel empowered to let their light shine and be like as bright and bold as possible.

• 42:17Speaker 00

  I love that. Kennedy, where can we stay connected with you? What is your website or any social media channels you'd like to share?

• 42:25Speaker 03

  You can find me on Instagram and TikTok at Kennedy underscore Reese, Kennedy with an I, Reese with a C.

• 42:32Speaker 00

  Perfect. And what about you, Cree? Where can we stay connected?

• 42:35Speaker 05

  Anywhere that's social media. You can find me under I am Cree Summer.

• 42:38Speaker 00

  Perfect. We'll be sure to include that in the show notes. Thank you both for spending some time with us today. I appreciate it.

• 42:43Speaker 05

  Thank you, Dr. Joy.

• 42:49Speaker 00

  I want to give a big thank you to Cree and Kennedy for this wonderful conversation, and I hope you all enjoyed listening in. To learn more about them and their latest projects, be sure to visit the show notes at therapyforblackgirls.com/session486. And don't forget to text this episode to two of your girls right now and tell them to check it out. Did you know that you could leave us a voicemail with your questions for the podcast? If you want to suggest movies or books for us to review, or share thoughts about topics you'd like us to discuss, drop us a message at memo.fm/therapyforblackgirls and let us know what's on your mind. We just might feature it on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory at therapyforblackgirls.com/directory. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram

• 43:34Speaker 00

  at @therapyforblackgirls, and join us over in our Patreon for exclusive updates, behind the scenes content, and much more. We can't wait to see you inside. You can join us at community.therapyforblackgirls.com. This episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Inde Chubu, and Bria Mosley. Editing was done by Denison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care.

• 44:07Speaker 00

  A rare disease diagnosis can change your life, but it doesn't have to define your future. In season seven of Untold Stories: Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, host Martine Hackett continues the conversation with people living with MG, CIDP, and the broader rare disease community, exploring what comes after diagnosis through stories of hope, progress, and connection. Produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenx. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 44:37Speaker 02

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• 45:17Speaker 07

  What's that?

• 45:18Speaker 04

  My fresh detector.

• 45:19Speaker 07

  Uh, your what?

• 45:20Speaker 04

  There it is.

• 45:21Speaker 07

  What is it detecting?

• 45:23Speaker 04

  Fresh produce, fresh meat.

• 45:25Speaker 07

  Okay, what happens if it detects something really fresh?

• 45:31Speaker 04

  Apparently, we celebrate. At Food Lion, you can count on fresh food at fresher prices. When your fresh detector is going

• 45:39Speaker 06

  off, head to your local Food Lion or shop at foodlion.com. Hey, I'm Niall Rogers. This fall, I'll be driving across the country, meeting some of today's coolest and most fascinating artists. We'll explore the stories before the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the moment where it all began. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.