Session 78: Maren Morris

Do you look at the past through rose colored glasses..? Yeah, but I'm delusional, so... Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/JAKE Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $25 discount Thank you to Booking.com for sponsoring this episode! Find exactly what you’re BOOKING for on Booking.com! Tickets on sale now for LIVE WITH JAKE SHANE at passthatpuss.com! Follow Maren & Listen to “Dreamsicle” OUT NOW! https://marenmorris.lnk.to/DREAMSICLE Tell Me What's Wrong at ⁠ passthatpuss.com Follow Me! Instagram | @passthatpuss TikTok | @octopusslover8 Listen to "THERAPUSS" Spotify: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/1BHDdC0OVuHqZ706FobfOF ⁠⁠Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/therapuss-with-jake-shane/id1723626781⁠⁠ Amazon Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/93117357-1f23-46e1-8f26-88f5182a68b8/therapuss-with-jake-shane⁠⁠ YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@octopusslover8 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Visible puts the ultimate wireless hack in the palm of your hand. With unlimited 5G wireless data and hotspot designed to keep you connected. Powered by Verizon's 5G network. And no contract holding you back. Plans start at $25 a month. Or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month when you use promo code "HACK". Make the switch at visible.com. Terms apply. See visible.com for details.

• 0:40Speaker 01

  Hi pussies, welcome back to Therapists. Hopefully I am still in France and having a great time. And on tonight's episode of Therapists, we have Maren Morris, who I absolutely adore. Her song "The Bones" got me through like a lot of COVID. It was really, really important to me. So being able to talk to her about her new album Dreamsicle, which is amazing and out now. So you should go stream it was so incredible. She is so awesome. She's so cool. She also sings one of my favorite songs of all time, "The Middle", obviously. And she's just like, she was so cool and fun and the greatest. So yeah, hopefully we will be having a lot of fun in France. I'm supposed to be in Cannes right now. So maybe I'll be speaking on a panel or doing something fun.

• 1:24Speaker 01

  To see if I'm coming to a city near you, go to passthatpuss.com and click Live with Jake Shane. And then to submit a tell me what's wrong, go to passthatpuss.com and click Tell Me What's Wrong and leave a name and number if you're feeling fancy. Love you pussies.

• 1:37Speaker 02

  You said I smelled good, which is like my highest compliment. I just found it in New York. So I always go to like scent bar because they have a LA location. They have a New York one, but it was this brand. I think it's called, the guy's, he's like a DJ in Chicago named Zernell Gilli. But he does these fragrances that are all like, he has one called jazz, one called hip hop. I think he just came out with one today called R and B. But I bought the hip hop one.

• 2:04Speaker 01

  And that's what you're wearing?

• 2:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, it gave me like summer vibes.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  I think I need a new scent. You know, when you're like, I need a new scent.

• 2:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's it's like a changeover of look and life is just a new smell.

• 2:15Speaker 01

  And everything.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  I know. You feel like I have a new personality today.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, literally.

• 2:21Speaker 02

  You should. It makes me feel so much better when I like change it up.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  It's it is the best compliment in the entire world to be like, you smell good.

• 2:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  I kept getting that at Coachella and I was like, thank you so much.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. What were you wearing?

• 2:32Speaker 01

  I think I was just wearing this like Tom Ford perfume and like my I was putting on a bunch of deodorant all the time.

• 2:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:38Speaker 01

  And I think that was it.

• 2:39Speaker 02

  I thought you were gonna say like Irish Spring, like, of course.

• 2:42Speaker 01

  No, what's Irish Spring?

• 2:44Speaker 02

  It's like a bar soap. Like, classic, like dude, bar soap.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  No, yeah, I wear Old Spice, though.

• 2:50Speaker 02

  Love.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:51Speaker 02

  You know, it's a classic for a reason.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  It is a classic. Okay, wait, so you have a new album coming out May 9?

• 2:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:56Speaker 01

  Dreams of Cole?

• 2:57Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  I'm so excited. I listened to it this morning. It's fucking incredible.

• 3:00Speaker 02

  Thank you. Oh, so it's fresh in your ears.

• 3:02Speaker 01

  It's fresh in my fucking ears. I'm obsessed with Because of Course.

• 3:08Speaker 02

  Oh, thank you.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  Because of course.

• 3:10Speaker 02

  Because duh.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Because of course. I just love the title as well. Like, it's just like, because of course.

• 3:15Speaker 02

  I think because it's one of those sayings, sometimes my country music brain will kick in of just like things we say to each other. Even like with my song, The Bones, it's like, when the bones are good, we turn so many turns of phrases into songs. And that's kind of like with the Because of Course. I was like, how could I apply this in a way that is a love song? But feels really like it could be any type of love, like romantic love, friend love, family love. Because I actually wrote it about my son, who's five now, and I was like, I'm always gonna love you because, of course.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  Right, because of course.

• 3:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  Is that like a country thing to do, like when you pick a phrase and make a song out of it?

• 3:55Speaker 02

  I think, yeah, because it's like so much of it is clever turns of phrases. When I think about Dolly Parton or Loretta, it's always like some everyday saying that they've made into a song. And then it becomes even more solidified in the in the ethos. As it stands, this is day after Coachella.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, right now, we are doing the day after Coachella and you performed technically three times.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  You did it Thursday night, you did the LA Philharmonic, and then you did Zed.

• 4:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, oh yeah, I forgot about Thursday. Um, yeah, it was a full week and I was like, for someone not on this lineup.

• 4:34Speaker 01

  You might as well have been.

• 4:34Speaker 02

  I was like, asked, I mean, by both people, like, I was gonna do the Zed thing, like, they asked me months ago if I would come out. And I was like, yes, of course, because, of course. Um, but then-

• 4:45Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 4:46Speaker 02

  But then LA Philharmonic reached out a few weeks ago and they were like, we're having a bunch of guest artists come in and sit in with Gustavo Dudamel, the conductor of the LA Phil, and they were like, what song would you want to do with this giant orchestra and gospel choir?

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  And I was like, well, I have a song called "My Church" and that feels like it would fit perfectly. And it was at golden hour. Like, the set was just so beautiful. And, yeah, I was busy. I was like, yesterday was my bed rot recovery day.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  Do you like to, did you watch anything when you bed rotted?

• 5:18Speaker 02

  Yesterday? Um, I caught up on Black Mirror.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 5:22Speaker 02

  Except I have one episode left.

• 5:23Speaker 01

  Oh my god, you just saved my day. I totally forgot there was a new Black Mirror season.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, you have to.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Is it good?

• 5:29Speaker 02

  Um, I really like it so far, yeah. I mean, I need to watch the USS Callister sequel episode, but-

• 5:37Speaker 01

  There's a sequel to that?

• 5:38Speaker 02

  There is in the season.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  Got it, got it.

• 5:40Speaker 02

  So I'm excited, because I loved the first one. But yeah, after this, go binge.

• 5:44Speaker 01

  Because I finished my show last night.

• 5:46Speaker 02

  What was it?

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Do you have ever seen The Leftovers?

• 5:48Speaker 02

  Like, the one on HBO?

• 5:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:51Speaker 02

  I haven't in a very long time, but I love that you're going back into that archive.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  I went back into it and I, I finished, I watched all of season three yesterday.

• 6:00Speaker 02

  Oh, cool.

• 6:01Speaker 01

  And it was just like, my life was changed.

• 6:02Speaker 02

  That is the last thing I thought you were gonna say.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  What did you think I was gonna say?

• 6:05Speaker 02

  I don't know, like, White Lotus, or I guess Last of Us premiered last night.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  It did.

• 6:10Speaker 02

  So, I gotta catch up.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  Well, I watched The Leftovers because of White Lotus, because of Keri Coon.

• 6:15Speaker 02

  Got it.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  And I was like, they were like, well, she's also in The Leftovers. And I was like, huh. Might as well give it a try. But you're a Bravo girl, aren't you?

• 6:20Speaker 02

  She's so good. I am, yeah. Not like as hardcore as you think. I think I'm a loyalist to Beverly Hills.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  Uh, and then I think recently just became more obsessed with Below Deck. But I've been on Watch What Happens Live five or six times now and I, I feel like a Bravo liberty at this point.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  It's, I feel like being a Bravo liberty is like my life goal.

• 6:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  Like, it's the coolest thing on planet Earth.

• 6:46Speaker 02

  I think someone was talking about it, like a serious actor, because now they'll do those, those retellings and they'll have like Ralph Fiennes come in and

• 6:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 6:56Speaker 02

  do a scene from Salt Lake City. Um, actually, I was just on there last week with Elizabeth Moss.

• 7:01Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 7:03Speaker 02

  And she did a dramatic reading of a Sutton Strack.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  That's incredible.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  Scene. Yeah, it was insane.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  Do you have a favorite Beverly Hills castmate?

• 7:13Speaker 02

  Um, I've watched since season one and like, I've always loved Kyle and, you know, her family dynamic is crazy, but like, she's someone I've met in real life and is very friendly and warm and like normal. And, uh, but I think like, they always ask me like, who would I bring back? And my answer is always Lisa Vanderpump.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  My answer's always Brandy.

• 7:38Speaker 02

  Really?

• 7:38Speaker 01

  Yes, I love her. I just like, I, okay, I love Lisa Vanderpump. My issue with Lisa Vanderpump was that she couldn't take the heat when she got called out. The second she got called out, she left.

• 7:53Speaker 02

  I know. Like, did she even go to the reunion?

• 7:55Speaker 01

  No, she left mid-season and fucked off.

• 7:58Speaker 02

  That's right. She was like, I'm done. I'm going to Vanderpump Rules.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  Which is also the best.

• 8:02Speaker 02

  Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I just miss the like, maybe it's not so much her and her clever quips in the interviews I miss, but I miss that era of Housewives, like Beverly Hills, where it was like Taylor and Kim.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  Bonkers.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  Kim was, oh, I loved Kim.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. Such good TV.

• 8:19Speaker 01

  I just feel like seasons one through like four of Beverly Hills are like really golden.

• 8:23Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. We were fed.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  Fed deeply.

• 8:26Speaker 02

  It was so much, like, really dark, heavy stuff, too. Like, season two.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  Oh, that's the darkest season of Housewives I've ever seen.

• 8:32Speaker 02

  It's insane that they put that on television. I mean, it's, it was incredible. Yolanda.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  Oh, Yolanda.

• 8:39Speaker 02

  Like, pre-Hadid takeover.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  It was just, oh, Beverly Hills is, Beverly Hills is

• 8:45Speaker 01

  I watch Beverly Hills and I watch, do you watch Salt Lake?

• 8:47Speaker 02

  Um, a little bit. It's like one of those things where I need the, the full bandwidth to absorb a new cast.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:54Speaker 02

  But, yeah.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  You gotta get involved with Salt Lake.

• 8:56Speaker 02

  I've heard it's like top tier, one of the best of the franchise.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  It's, right now, it is the best.

• 9:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  In my opinion, like, it is the best. Like, there's like an FBI arrest on camera, there's, like, there's everything you could want in a Housewives show.

• 9:09Speaker 02

  Okay, sick. I'm in.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  Speaking of FBI, I think Teresa is going to jail again, maybe?

• 9:14Speaker 02

  Oh, no.

• 9:15Speaker 01

  For taxes again?

• 9:18Speaker 02

  Gosh.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  I know. It's like you can't escape it with, it's like the housewife curse.

• 9:22Speaker 02

  I know. Like, don't, don't go on camera. Everything's gonna be unearthed.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  Everything.

• 9:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:28Speaker 01

  Everything. And that's what happened with Jen Shaw.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  That's what I heard.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, she got arrested on camera on a Sprinter van. It was seriously the one of the most, that made me watch the show.

• 9:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  They were like, she got arrested.

• 9:41Speaker 02

  Oh, I remember who I was thinking of, the serious actor. I saw in an interview recently, Tom Hardy was talking about Below Deck or something. And I was like, you're watching Bravo? I'm obsessed.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  In your mind, who's the hottest, um, house husband?

• 9:55Speaker 02

  Well, I can only talk about Beverly Hills, cause that's like the only people I know. Um, I mean, like, I met Mauricio. In Aspen, actually.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  Yep, checks out.

• 10:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. It was like years ago, and it was with the whole family, Kyle, all the daughters, so beautiful, so sweet. Um, and he was really nice, like, you know.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  He's drop dead gorgeous.

• 10:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's, he's looking good.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  He's looking good. Can I ask you about, you are on one of my favorite Taylor Swift vault tracks of all time?

• 10:25Speaker 02

  Really?

• 10:25Speaker 01

  Yes, You All Over Me is one of my favorite vault tracks.

• 10:27Speaker 02

  Oh my God, thank you. Well, I, like, I didn't write the song, but I was like, thank you.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  No, it's, no, but you're on it.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was, it was bonkers, cause like, I think it was deep, deep COVID pandemic still. I was in Hawaii and that was pretty locked down too. But my producer Greg, Kristen, was out there during lockdown and it was my first trip out of Nashville since COVID. And I brought my son, who was like a year at the time, and I remember recording, like, Taylor's team had reached out about doing a song on Fearless, like, the re-release. And Fearless is like my favorite Taylor album.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 11:04Speaker 02

  So, I was just freaking out. And, um, it's such a beautiful song. It's also so reminiscent of- How I discovered her and the age I was when I discovered her and she and I are the same age, but I was just jolted right back into like high school me and no, I mean, it was just so cool to be, I, so I recorded my vocal in Hawaii for You All Over Me. It came out, still kind of pandemic-y, but then she, she had me out at the Eras Tour, the Chicago run and I got to do that song with her. It's, I've never, well, not that I'm always on a stadium stage, but just an acoustic song in the middle of that many people and that

• 11:47Speaker 02

  energy and excitement. It was just so, like, it's such a respectful crowd because they are wanting to hear every lyric and every word and nuance. And she does all these new songs each time, so they are, they don't want to miss a second and it just felt so loving.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Where it was everyone screaming the lyrics back?

• 12:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, like in a respectfully, nice volume because they were like, they wanted to hear her, but I think, no, it was, it was insane. Just very out of this world. But you know, she has that about her where she's aware of the magnitude of her, but then she will bring you in in such an intimate way and make you feel like safe because it's a very jarring concept. I mean, it's an artist that, you know, has toured a very long time. I'm in like theaters, amphitheaters, you know, that's kind of my vibe to kind of come out of the hydraulic lift and then the mile of catwalk to her. I mean, it's a lot. I'm

• 12:47Speaker 02

  like out of breath by the time I get to the end and we have to like sing the song and she's doing it, you know, five hours every night, but.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  I don't know how she did that because the show is so fucking long.

• 12:59Speaker 02

  Dancing, full production, singing, outfit changes. I mean, the stage, I remember on the Reputation Tour, I was out, she asked me kindly, like out to do the middle back in 2018.

• 13:15Speaker 01

  I remember.

• 13:15Speaker 02

  Or whenever, yeah. And even during sound check on the Reputation Tour at like Cowboys Stadium in Arlington, which is where I'm from, I was out of breath and she's just got that stamina from doing it so much. I was like, okay, I need to. I need to start doing cardio or something. Listening on this kind of stage, but um, no, I have to imagine like what that does to your body and and voice, like that many hours, three in a row. Show three.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  She did like six in LA with like one day off.

• 13:48Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh.

• 13:49Speaker 01

  And I was like, how are you doing this? Was she so lovely to work with though?

• 13:52Speaker 02

  She is, yeah. And she's just such a normal person. And I know like, I don't think I would be able to be normal at that level because, and especially being famous since

• 14:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 14:03Speaker 02

  childhood. I think I would have already had a, a mental breakdown and in there or rehab like, like long before.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 14:12Speaker 02

  The fact that she's just so grounded and so much of that, I think it's like having her family out. Like close people around her, like she's so loyal to, like she's had the same team for so long.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  For the entire time.

• 14:25Speaker 02

  I know, it's really rare.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's, I'm obsessed with her, obviously.

• 14:30Speaker 02

  So you went to the LA?

• 14:31Speaker 01

  I went three in LA.

• 14:32Speaker 02

  Oh, my god.

• 14:33Speaker 01

  And then I went one in Vegas.

• 14:34Speaker 02

  Amazing.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  And then I was supposed to go in Vancouver and I couldn't make it.

• 14:38Speaker 02

  Oh dang it.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  And I was super upset.

• 14:40Speaker 02

  I, I, I saw two of the, the, no, wait, no, yeah, I saw two of the shows um, on the Eras Tour and because I went to the Jersey one just as a fan.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 14:50Speaker 02

  And then the Chicago.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  Was that MetLife?

• 14:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  Oh, my god, I'm so fucking jealous. I wanted to go to that, she released You're Losing Me that week. And I wanted to see it so bad and I, she was only selling that song on CDs at the MetLife show.

• 15:03Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh.

• 15:04Speaker 01

  And I was in Singapore.

• 15:05Speaker 02

  I should have bought you one.

• 15:06Speaker 01

  I bought, well, I have one now.

• 15:08Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  Thank you, thank you, but. Did you, um, do you have a favorite Taylor Swift song?

• 15:13Speaker 02

  I mean, I, I, I'm such a nostalgia addict that I always go back to the ones that I would psychotically listen to and it would just crawl into my brain. I feel like Love Story was the first song where I was like, this feels pop.

• 15:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 15:32Speaker 02

  But it's her.

• 15:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 15:34Speaker 02

  It just kind of broke these walls of um, genre in my brain of like, okay. Anything can be anything. It's just as long as she's the guiding compass of it. And I think that had a lot to do with me feeling fearless, you know, in my work and like not worrying about, is this, you know, to this or that? Is this still gonna be country? Like, you know, just genre bending. And it was a huge hit.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  I feel like everything I'm gonna pull is out of Fearless.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  No, it's your album. Everyone has that one album with her.

• 16:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:09Speaker 01

  Do you feel like you're, um, cause I was, I feel like I couldn't pinpoint a genre on Dreamsicle.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  Do you feel as well that it's very genre bending?

• 16:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I mean, I think all of my records have had that, you know, going in it because I put my church out in 2015 and like that was very soulful, country, kinda gospel-y in moments. And then my next single after that was my song 80s Mercedes, which was completely different sonically than my church. And I did that intentionally because I was like, I don't wanna be pigeonholed in the sound of my church. I want to show people what I'm doing on this full record. And 80s was very pop, pop, synthy, you know, but still kinda like nostalgic, you know, Nashville lyrical to me. But, um,

• 17:05Speaker 02

  no, so I think all my records have had that element of genre fluidity, but, um, yeah, with this one, it feels like I stretched myself out of a comfort zone of what that is and I worked with Naomi McPherson from Muna.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  Oh, I love Muna.

• 17:23Speaker 02

  So much, yeah. Like, I worked with them on my song Push Me Over, which is on the record and was on the EP. And then I worked with Naomi again for Cry In The Car. And I just, like, it was the best two days. And I mean, I was like, I would love to continue along that path with them, but, um, yeah, I mean, that's a lot more pop. But then you'll have moments, like I did Holy Smoke and Grand Bouquet with Jackie Antonoff, and that's like extremely...

• 17:58Speaker 02

  You know, in moments, country, a little bit like Elliott Smith vibes on Grand Bouquet. I don't know, it's like, it's all over the place in a way that makes sense to me and for me.

• 18:08Speaker 01

  I, it's, I was obsessed with that. I was listening to it all morning. It's incredible.

• 18:12Speaker 02

  Thanks. That's so weird to like, talk to someone who's heard it, because I feel like not many people have, except for my closest friends and team, but yeah, I'm so glad you like it.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  No, I love it. It was, it was so, it like made, I was having the worst morning and it like made my morning so much more enjoyable.

• 18:28Speaker 02

  Good. Oh, that's such a high compliment. I mean, it's such a mood shift, like music that just takes you out of your own head for a moment. That's like, the point.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  That's like my favorite thing in the entire world. I really, I feel like I connect with music the most when um, it's like in a TV show I'm watching and like, it's like, there's a sync that's super powerful.

• 18:47Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, like, of course, the one that comes to mind is, you know, what made me obsessed with Imogen Heap was like the OC.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  Right, right, right.

• 18:55Speaker 02

  I was like, who, what is this? And then it started like a, you know, 20 year obsession with her.

• 19:01Speaker 01

  Well, you, I was about to say, you've been doing this for 20 years.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  Wasn't your first album, it was independent and it was in 2005, right?

• 19:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  Wow. That's crazy. You were 15 years old?

• 19:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. I was like, I was a baby, but I'd been playing shows and kind of touring since I was 12.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  Wait, what?

• 19:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, it's been a very long road. I think I did not get my, I didn't sign with a major label till I was 25. So, it was, you know, thank God. Like, thank God, like those independent releases were just kind of for the, the, the community I had in Texas, but I was not anywhere ready to be on a world stage or any way public facing back then. So, I was like, I consider myself lucky, because I feel like at 25, 26, you have gotten out of those like insecure-ish years of not knowing who you are, having identity as an artist or woman or person. And then by then, I was just like, very confident in what I had to say.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  And, you know, I, I was also like, I had the leverage of My church kind of already streaming really well. And so my label just really respected and you know, my wishes for what the sound was going to be and the, the visuals and you know, they really let me cook.

• 20:25Speaker 01

  They let you cook?

• 20:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  Do you think my church was like your memorial, you're like, I made it?

• 20:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that started everything for me.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:33Speaker 02

  That song and um, it was my first single. It won me a Grammy. I remember that whole first year, just doing all of these things that felt even bigger than country music. Like, I don't know, just going to the Grammys was really insane. And then doing SNL, like it just through that song, it, it brought so much in so little time to my life and it introduced me to the world and I mean, I think it was a couple of years later when I did the middle with Zed and that was kind of like a new version of whoa, like this music is beyond the States.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 21:11Speaker 02

  Worldwide, um, so I've had a few of those moments in my career of like, holy shit.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  Did you, sorry. Did I interrupt you?

• 21:19Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 21:21Speaker 01

  Did I?

• 21:22Speaker 02

  This is your show.

• 21:23Speaker 01

  No, but you are the guest. I have like the worst problem with interrupting people. I'm like really trying to work on it. I feel like I've gotten better though.

• 21:29Speaker 02

  You've been lovely.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  You've been lovely.

• 21:32Speaker 02

  You're such a pro.

• 21:33Speaker 01

  Oh, you, I'm obsessed with you. I feel like I could hang out with you all day.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  I know, I was like, I'm surprised we're talking about music because I'm glad the first part of this interview was just Bravo.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, yes, yes.

• 21:45Speaker 02

  The important stuff.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  The, uh, yes.

• 21:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:47Speaker 01

  Wait, so did you, when you did the middle, like, okay, like when you're like making a song like that, because I also listened to that this morning again and I was like, what a fucking classic that is, you know? Like what a classic, like it's a classic, that song's a classic. Did you know in the studio, you were like, I've just made a classic with someone?

• 22:03Speaker 02

  I didn't write the middle. I was sent the demo for it, uh, years ago, I was on vacation and um, I had been sent a few songs before, just through other people's teams of like, would Maren want to be a part of this? Because this was like a very.

• 22:22Speaker 02

  Interesting time in music and in country music where people were starting to do collaborations with pop people.

• 22:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  And, you know, that's always been a thing. Um, you know, it's like, I go back to Dolly Parton and Linda Ronstadt and Emmylou Harris doing the Trio record. Willie Nelson and Ray Charles. I mean, there have been these collaborations over the decades that are extremely genre bending and historic, but anywho, like, fast forward to this era of like, country artists collaborating with DJs and big pop people. I think like Florida Georgia Line was, they had that song with BB Rexha.

• 23:04Speaker 01

  Holy.

• 23:04Speaker 02

  Oh, Meant to Be, sorry.

• 23:05Speaker 01

  I'm seriously about to chop my own head off. I literally said it.

• 23:11Speaker 02

  That is a song of those though.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, I know. I said it with such confidence too.

• 23:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, holy.

• 23:18Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh, Meant to Be. Um, I can't remember if Meant to Be was already out or it was about to come out, but I'd been sent a few songs of like, would Maren want to put her vocal on this or finish the second verse and put her vocal on it? And nothing just connected with me thus far. And then I was sent the demo for the middle and I didn't like, I didn't know who was singing on the demo, but I was like, this person's amazing. Like, why are they looking for outside singers? Like whoever's already on this is, I don't know how anyone could beat this or recreate it even. And they were like, that's the co-writer of the song, Sarah Aron's. She's not an artist. Like she's, she's a writer, but she, yeah, she sings her ass off. Um, and I was like, you know what? I cannot stop listening to

• 24:03Speaker 02

  this. I'm listening through my like phone speaker on the beach. And I go back to Nashville and I put like a rough vocal on it just to like send it in and be like, do they even, does my voice even make sense with this song? And they were like, they love it. Zedd's team loves it, but there's a couple other people that are doing this for the song and I think they're gonna go with this other girl. And I was like, oh, well, you know, shit.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 24:30Speaker 02

  Shit happens. It is what it is. Moving on. And then like two weeks later, they were like, uh, something happened, like that girl dropped out or something. I don't know. It has another song coming out. She doesn't want to compete with it. They would love you to put like a, a proper polished, finished vocal on this. And I was like, I don't know, like they passed on me.

• 24:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  I was feeling a little bit, you know,

• 24:56Speaker 01

  Patty.

• 24:56Speaker 02

  Salty.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:58Speaker 02

  And I was like, maybe it's just not meant to be, um, if they've passed on me. And my manager Janet, she was like, you love the song, right? And I was like, I do. She's like, just, it, it would be a huge thing. And they already have this huge plan behind it. Like they want to shoot the video in two days. They're gonna premiere it at the Grammys during the commercial break. You know, it, it, it's already got like momentum. They're ready to go. You just need to sing it. And I was like, all right. And, uh, Zed flew out to Nashville and we like cut the vocal. The day he landed, spent a couple hours in the studio. I had not met him.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  And he was so sweet and such a gentleman, but also like really particular about what he wanted because he just, we all loved Sarah's demo. Um, but it was so funny cause like I met Sarah at the Grammys, like when everything was getting, you know, premiered and we'd done the video and, um, she's Australian, such a funny little badass. Like she's my height. And we kind of realized, cause we started writing after that and we wrote my song, Girl. And like she's just, she and I have very similar vocal tones, like we're a little bit smoky alto.

• 26:15Speaker 02

  So I think there's a reason why Zed heard my vocal fitting it so well because of Sarah. But, um, no, it was just one of those moments where I sort of like always talk about when the middle came out. Overnight, it was everywhere.

• 26:31Speaker 01

  Really? Like you woke up and it was just suddenly like, uh, it was number one and everything, everyone was freaking out.

• 26:36Speaker 02

  I don't think it was number one yet, but it was like, I was seeing people send me videos of like them in their cab in like Taiwan.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 26:45Speaker 02

  Hearing it. And I was like, holy shit. And it felt like, That scene in Josie and the Pussycats were like, all of a sudden they're like, we're number one in the world? And it was like so unrealistic, but that's kind of how it felt. And then, I don't know, it was just off to the races. After that, it was like, our song was everywhere. It was in every store, commercial, like, it was bonkers. But um, I mean, it brought like a world of people to my music.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  Right. What do you think, how did your life change like after that song came out? Cause you had already won a Grammy.

• 27:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  You were already a Grammy award winning artist.

• 27:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. And like I was known in my, you know, community and like country music, but then um, and I had been touring overseas and whatnot, but like that, when you have a song, I mean, like pop music, EDM, that's just such a global type of music. Country, like only in the last few years has become that sort of popular. But um, yeah, no, I mean, being a part of it, it changed my life. And then singing it um, at Coachella the other night was just so insane because it's like, of course he has so many hits in his set, but you just know when that song kicks off.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  It's, it's a moment. And with all the like fire and just you could actually, I could hear like the vibration of how loud the crowd was, which is hard when you have in your monitors and and you're like so far from them. It was that loud. So I was just like, it's one of those evergreen songs that just sticks around.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  Well, it's a timeless song too, because there are no, um, I mean, I could be totally wrong, but I feel like there's no references to, because like, I feel like what makes a timeless song is like a song that could technically be released in any year, any time, because like, kind of like 1989 by Taylor Swift, like there's no references to

• 28:44Speaker 02

  Cell phones.

• 28:44Speaker 01

  Cell phones or anything. So like, or TikTok and like, it's just like such a timeless. Perfect song.

• 28:51Speaker 02

  Oh, thank you.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 28:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like very rare in a career that you get maybe one of those or a couple. But yeah, that was one that, I don't know, it's just stood the test of time. It's been like six, seven years and it still hits, so.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  It's still, it's still hits. I'm so mad I missed that fucking set. I was, I was already home.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  Oh dang it.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  I was already home. I woke up, um, I went out Saturday night. I got home at 5 a.m. and I was like, fuck this.

• 29:20Speaker 02

  What did you do till five?

• 29:22Speaker 01

  I don't know. I seriously don't know. I think I was just dancing.

• 29:26Speaker 02

  Cause after the like Coachella lineup ends, there's like more to do, right? There's like a.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's like, and I, I Charlie, uh, actually I had an after party. And so I went there and it was just like, it really kicked off and like, and I was flirting with this guy the whole night. And like, I was like, I just, I'm not going home.

• 29:47Speaker 02

  Till the sun comes up.

• 29:48Speaker 01

  Till the sun comes up. Those are.

• 29:49Speaker 02

  You know what? You deserve that though.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 29:52Speaker 02

  Fun night out.

• 29:53Speaker 01

  Thank you. I had one of my most fun nights out though in Nashville the other week.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  Yeah?

• 29:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I went to Losers.

• 29:59Speaker 02

  Nice.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  It was very fun.

• 30:01Speaker 02

  I have frequented that bar many times in my 12 years of living there. Um, I actually started writing, I have a song on my first record called I Could Use A Love Song. And it was technically my first number one song, uh, because my church didn't go number one. Um, but I started writing it at Losers.

• 30:19Speaker 01

  Really?

• 30:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was like with my co-writers and it was 11 a.m. but we were all having like the worst morning. And one of us had a flat tire or got a ticket on the way. It was just like something was off and we were like, should we just walk across the street and like get a beer? It feels like that kind of.

• 30:39Speaker 02

  And we started that and then, um, no, we just like started through conversation, like talking about these lyrics to what we could write that day. And we walked across the street and like wrote it in 45 minutes, did the vocal demo, everything done. And then I think we went back to Losers and had another beer.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  That's amazing.

• 30:58Speaker 02

  It's just, you know, Nashville.

• 31:00Speaker 01

  It is Nashville. I love Nashville.

• 31:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm glad.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  I've been twice.

• 31:05Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  I've had, okay, wait, so I went to this, where have I gone? I've gone out to some really good restaurants there. I, I, um, there, I went to this like new Chinese restaurant there. It was amazing. I totally forget what it's called, of course.

• 31:18Speaker 02

  There, I mean, there's, the food in Nashville is insane.

• 31:21Speaker 01

  It is insane.

• 31:21Speaker 02

  In the, in the last decade that I've lived there, because it was so, it was starting to pop off when I first moved there 12 years ago, because the show Nashville had just started.

• 31:32Speaker 01

  I've never seen that show.

• 31:33Speaker 02

  I mean, it's, it's iconic.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  I know.

• 31:36Speaker 02

  It's, it's, it's basically like a primetime soap.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  I know. I've heard it's amazing. And it's a-

• 31:40Speaker 02

  The music is so good.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  It's with, uh, what's her name? Uh?

• 31:43Speaker 02

  Uh, it's Connie Britton.

• 31:44Speaker 01

  Um, Ian Pennantier, yeah.

• 31:47Speaker 02

  Chip Esten, like it's, it's a great cast, but like the music is so good because everything for the soundtrack and the show is written by Nashville songwriters.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 31:58Speaker 02

  So, everything's about how songs are made on Music Row.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 32:02Speaker 02

  And how they become hits. I mean, I will say they, they dramatize it a little bit.

• 32:07Speaker 01

  Of course. It's like how Scandal dramatizes The White House.

• 32:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, but like if you're a songwriter and you get like your first cut, like a song that makes it onto an album and it's not even a single, like you're not getting paid shit.

• 32:21Speaker 01

  Oh, oh, really?

• 32:22Speaker 02

  Unless it's a single.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  Right, right, right.

• 32:23Speaker 02

  But-

• 32:24Speaker 01

  How old were you when you moved to Nashville?

• 32:26Speaker 02

  I think I was 23.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 32:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I've been there since then and, I mean, all my like best friends that I met through those co-writes that, you know, co-writes are like blind dates because

• 32:42Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 32:42Speaker 02

  you are meeting someone and you're supposed to pour each other's hearts out within moments of meeting each other. Cause it's like, hi, where are you from? Here, okay, so I have this song about how I tried to kill myself three years ago. Like,

• 32:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 32:57Speaker 02

  that's what, what you're doing that day. And, um, but that's how you meet people really quick and you like realize if you're, you know, gonna be besties for life, or if you just repel one another and have no chemistry.

• 33:09Speaker 01

  Have you ever had that experience where you had like literally no chemistry and it's been like pulling teeth to write a song with?

• 33:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's- I'll always try to finish a song, even if the day or the song sucks. But there's like those occasions where even with people that I love writing with, sometimes it's just not there and you're trying to write and write all day. Maybe you'll like go to lunch and come back to it and then you're just like, guys, this sucks. Like, everything we're writing is dog shit. Let's just go. Like, we'll try again next time.

• 33:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:39Speaker 02

  But then you'll also have, you know, first timers with people where you're like, I hate this whole process with you. Like, I think we can just, we're not meant to work together.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  Right. Was the, was the Bones an easy song to write or was that one you had to come back to?

• 33:54Speaker 02

  That was an easy song. I feel like some of my biggest songs have been the ones that came easily, strangely enough, but.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  That would make sense, I feel like.

• 34:02Speaker 02

  I guess, yeah, but it was, it was just an idea. So my co-writers on that song, Laura Belts, Jimmy Robbins, we had written hundreds of songs together that I love. Like, they were the ones I went to the bar with.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:17Speaker 02

  So we had such a rapport, but then the Bones was an idea that Laura brought in because she and her husband were looking for a house. And she was like, there's this thing our Realtor keeps saying, like, if the house is like kind of shitty, they're like, yeah, but the Bones are good. So she was like, I just keep hearing that this week. I feel like we should write about it as a relationship. And so that's what we did. And I think it was one of those songs that was done in under an hour. And then I did the vocal and I don't think I realized in the moment that it was that kind of special. I was like, because maybe I write so much with them, everything we write is kind of special, but then it wasn't until I was playing it for people,

• 35:01Speaker 02

  like, just like friends. They're like, oh, can I hear the Bones again?

• 35:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:06Speaker 02

  That's kind of when I know that they're like my focus group of like what songs are gonna do. But, um, no, it just, that was a slow burner of a, like, it came out.

• 35:19Speaker 02

  I realized on tour, every time that guitar part would kick in at the intro, the crowd would freak out. And I was like, this feels like it should be the next single if this is how people are reacting. And it ended up being like my first kind of country into pop crossover song that ended up on like the Hot 100 and other than the middle, but like this was my song.

• 35:41Speaker 01

  This was your album.

• 35:42Speaker 02

  I wrote, so, no. And then we did like a, I just kind of towards the end, I was like, they're like, we would love to do like a special version of this song. And I was like on tour and my friend Rachel Beauregard, uh, who was singing with Hosier on tour at this moment, like, reached out to me and she was like, Andrew is like humming this all the time. And I was like, maybe I'll just, I never do this, like have the, this, you know, the gall to reach out to artists that I love. But I was like, I'm just gonna see if Hosier would want to do a duet version of The Bones. And he said yes and did it like within two days.

• 36:16Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 36:17Speaker 02

  And um, yeah, it's just had like many lives.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  It really, that was my COVID song.

• 36:22Speaker 02

  Your COVID? Yeah. Well, because it went number one right at the beginning of COVID.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:27Speaker 02

  Which was like, very bittersweet because it was like, yay. But also, we can't have a party.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, we can't do anything.

• 36:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was just my co-writers and I did like a Zoom champagne toast. It was such a bummer, but then I had so many people reach out to me during COVID saying that that song meant so much to them.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  It really did.

• 36:48Speaker 02

  About like the world at that moment in time. But I couldn't tour and enjoy the success of the song until like 2022. And um, that was kind of when I got my flowers for it.

• 37:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 37:00Speaker 02

  I just felt that like energy from the crowd singing it back and it was so emotional.

• 37:05Speaker 01

  It's just such a comforting song. I feel like, I was like, cause it, you know, it's like, as long as like the bones of what, like, cause we were all so away from each other. So as long as like our, the bones of our, all of our relationships were good, like we'd all be fine.

• 37:19Speaker 02

  Exactly. Yeah. It kind of felt like a world anthem of like, we're in the home stretch of the hard times and it's gonna be all right.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  God, sometimes I'm like, I really. Do you like look through the past with rose colored glasses as well?

• 37:34Speaker 02

  I mean, yeah, because I'm delusional. So, rose colored glasses are always on for me. But I think because I just love, and maybe it's like the millennial in me, but we love nostalgia.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  But me too, and I was thinking like.

• 37:50Speaker 02

  Harry Potter.

• 37:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:52Speaker 02

  Like, we're gonna get Disney adults.

• 37:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, the whole, all of it.

• 37:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, all the cliches are true.

• 37:56Speaker 01

  I was just thinking, I was like, sometimes I like miss quarantine and I miss COVID. But then like.

• 38:02Speaker 02

  I do too.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  Do, did you enjoy it?

• 38:04Speaker 02

  I mean, I, okay, I'm coming at this a little bit different from you because I was nine months pregnant.

• 38:12Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 38:13Speaker 02

  In March of 2020.

• 38:14Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 38:15Speaker 02

  So, I did the Houston rodeo, which like, if you're from Texas, that's a huge deal.

• 38:20Speaker 01

  We didn't go, we didn't go. I was, I had a tour date that week and why didn't we go?

• 38:27Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 38:28Speaker 01

  God, I'm such a loser.

• 38:29Speaker 02

  In 2020? Or like recently?

• 38:31Speaker 01

  Brief, literally like four weeks ago.

• 38:33Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh. Yeah, it's, it's a moment. It's just like, the stage revolves while you're on it.

• 38:39Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 38:39Speaker 02

  And I was like nine months pregnant and I was like terrified I was gonna go into labor.

• 38:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 38:44Speaker 02

  Or fall, like on this revolving stage. I mean, it's like moving slowly, but um, it's like a 360 stage. But yeah, I gave birth like that next week, I think, and it was while everything was starting to shut down and we were just, I mean, my ex and I were just, like, what are we gonna do?

• 39:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 39:05Speaker 02

  Is our family even gonna be able to meet our child? Um, but then like, as months passed and we're like in quarantine, we were already gonna be stuck at home because of a newborn, but then it was kind of nice because it was like, I want this time to myself with my baby and I don't want to feel like that guilt of missing out on things. And I didn't.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, but there are moments too, like, I just miss. Just that whole like era of music performances and comedy and TikTok and everything was just its own chamber of pop culture in that moment.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  It was such a, everything was so, I think it's because everything was so maybe like universal.

• 39:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  Because everyone was doing the same thing at the same time. Everyone was watching Outer Banks at the same time. Everyone was watching Tiger King at the same time. Everyone. You know, it was just so.

• 39:58Speaker 02

  We're all like cooking for the first time. Yeah, it was just like, everyone was experiencing this thing on a world level and there was something really deeply comforting about that.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  So strange. I feel like, God, it just, um, I, I mean, I never want to do it again.

• 40:14Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  But like.

• 40:16Speaker 02

  It sucked because it's like you can't go and tour, you can't go to shows. I think the music industry was hit so hard because, well, at least like in a live sense because you can still go like stream a movie or, you know, they moved everything to streaming during that moment in time. But yeah, like the touring industry was just like.

• 40:36Speaker 01

  Shot.

• 40:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, because like the crew, um, even like local venue crew, they can't go to work. Um, there's just like so much was paused and um, I feel like even now, it's been five years. It's still like, it, it took so long to get it back on the rails.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  I feel like it's just now though, coming back.

• 40:55Speaker 02

  A little bit.

• 40:56Speaker 01

  Really hard. Like I've seen so many live shows in the past like year and two years and like, I just, I love live music.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  That's how much I realized I loved it.

• 41:05Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 41:06Speaker 02

  We didn't get to do it.

• 41:07Speaker 01

  And like, I feel like my, my favorite feeling in the world is falling in love with the song as it's performed live.

• 41:12Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  It's there's like, it's like the most euphoric feeling in the entire world and I, I didn't realize how much I missed that during COVID.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, and they're just, there's artists and bands that like, you might like the song, but when you hear it live, it is just a transcendent, okay, now I'm a lifelong fan.

• 41:29Speaker 01

  Right.

• 41:29Speaker 02

  Like that's just an energy that you can only have overcome or overcome you in a live setting and it feels spiritual. I don't know.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  What have you, what song do you think of when you think of like a moment like that?

• 41:43Speaker 02

  I was just talking about this early, earlier today with Glam. I was like, I saw Mumford and Sons at Bonnaroo in 2015. And I had heard all the songs, you know, Little Lion Man, The Cave, I Will Wait. Like, I knew those songs, but then seeing them live at Bonnaroo, which is like a particular experience because I've been to Coachella as, you know, an artist, but, or like a guest artist, actually. But Bonnaroo is a little bit more hippie, like same lineup sometimes as Coachella, like on the stages, but

• 42:21Speaker 02

  you know, it's just a little bit more like organic, I guess. And just everyone's so happy to be there and the crowds are wonderful and I don't know, it hasn't been like Coachella-ified, I suppose, yet.

• 42:35Speaker 01

  Coachella's like, it's past the point of a music festival, I feel like. A real, true music festival. Respectfully to Coachella.

• 42:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, to be fair, I've only seen it through the lens of like playing a, you know, a song, but um yeah, it's definitely like an interesting vibe in terms of going to like Lollapalooza or Boston Calling or Bonnaroo or like ACL. But um, yeah, I mean, but every festival has its own like vibe. But I will say like seeing Mumford at Bonnaroo in 2015 was a transformative experience for me because they are such a festival band to me. And Marcus, I didn't realize, is an incredible drummer. He gets on the drums at one point in the show and I was like, holy shit, like I'm, I've been converted, like I'm a lifelong fan.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  And now I've like worked with him, but I um, no, I was just, those are the only things that happen at music festivals.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, just My Morning Jacket, incredible festival experience. Kendrick, incredible festival experience. I don't know, like.

• 43:42Speaker 02

  I wonder if Taylor would ever do a festival.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  She was supposed to before Covid.

• 43:47Speaker 02

  Really?

• 43:47Speaker 01

  She was like supposed to throw her own like lover festival.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  That's right, yes.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  I wanna say she was supposed to do Glastonbury.

• 43:54Speaker 02

  Mmm, oh my god, I would love to go to Glastonbury.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  I, last night, I was like, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go and I couldn't. I couldn't, I'm busy over the dates that it is, and I really wanted to go so bad.

• 44:05Speaker 02

  That's like a dream festival for me.

• 44:06Speaker 01

  Me too, me too, it sounds, I think I would have the best time, but I would say that.

• 44:10Speaker 02

  I love the Brits.

• 44:11Speaker 01

  Me, more than anything, more than anything.

• 44:14Speaker 02

  I love being over there.

• 44:14Speaker 01

  It's low key my favorite city in the world.

• 44:17Speaker 02

  I just, I think because I've gone so many times, like since I was a teenager to now, and have friends that are there, it's just such a, I don't know, I just feel like a different person there. I feel like really settled in and the food is so good.

• 44:35Speaker 02

  I don't know if you like drink or if you like martinis, but.

• 44:38Speaker 01

  I fell in love with martinis in London.

• 44:40Speaker 02

  That's the place to do it.

• 44:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:43Speaker 02

  Dukes, uh, bar, which is like kind of known, because if you've seen the Blake Lively, like, Simple Favor movie, she talks about how to make a Dukes martini.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 44:55Speaker 02

  Um, it's iconic because of, um, like James Bond and everything that, yeah, it's very British, but yeah, it's like they make your martini in a little cart tableside and it's like frozen gin, frozen glass, no dilution, uh, but no, it's like, I feel like you can only have one.

• 45:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 45:14Speaker 02

  You'll be fucked up.

• 45:18Speaker 01

  Shout out SeatGeek for sponsoring us again, they must have known I was on the road and everyone needed tickets to live with Jake Shane, because the best place to get them is at SeatGeek.com. Use code THERAPIST10 for 10% off your SeatGeek order today. SeatGeek makes buying tickets for any live show so easy and so many people are on tour this summer. We have Gracie Abrams, we have Tate McRae on her Miss Possessive World Tour, which I am personally so excited to see. We have Lorde on the Virgin Tour, we have so many, there, there's so many exciting shows to see and SeatGeek has all of them, whether it be a sporting event. A music concert, a comedy show, like anything you want, SeatGeek has. And also, they make buying tickets so much easier. On the website or in the app, they have a scale from zero to 10

• 46:03Speaker 01

  to show you like what type of deal you're getting. Zero being like, obviously not the best, and 10 being the best. So look for the green dots, because that means you are getting a great deal. Also, click the link in my description today to download the app and have the code THERAPIST10 automatically applied to your account. Once again, use my code THERAPIST10 for 10% off your order. And thank you again, SeatGeek, for sponsoring tonight's episode.

• 46:27Speaker 01

  This episode of Therapist is brought to you by Booking.com. Booking dot... Yeah! So, when we are on the road, as you guys know, Booking.com has saved us so many times because Matt likes to wait until the day of to book anything. None of us know why. Thankfully, Booking.com has come to the rescue because now, whenever we wake up in a new city, Matt will go on Booking.com, put in all of our preferences. Instead of just like going hotel by hotel, it shows you a list of hotels and rooms, and he picks the one that works for all of us, and we go to that one, and it makes life easier. You can decide if the hotel is walkable, if you want a terrace, a bathtub, whatever you need, you can put it on Booking.com. They also have cards to rent, they have vacation rentals, so you can make your vacation as full and as stress-free as possible. And we used to get really, really upset with Matt

• 47:12Speaker 01

  because we would literally show up to these... It's Matt. I'm so sorry for the interruption, you guys. Matt was playing with the lights like a five-year-old, and now my lighting for the Booking.com ad has been tarnished. That doesn't stop the message, though. Booking.com is there for you and all your travel needs. If you have a Matt in your life who doesn't plan until the day of, Booking.com will help you. Find exactly what you're booking for at Booking.com. Booking dot... Yeah! Book today on the site or in the app.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  God, I fell in love with Martinis. Have you ever been to the Conal in London?

• 47:47Speaker 02

  Yes, that's like the second best.

• 47:49Speaker 01

  Yes, I was like, I was like, I hated martinis, I hated olives, I hated all of it. And I was like, with my best friend Alice, and I was like, I gotta get on board with this.

• 47:58Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 47:58Speaker 01

  I was like, I have to, it's chic, it's classy.

• 48:01Speaker 02

  The Conal is similar where they do it tableside, like at that little cart.

• 48:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 48:05Speaker 02

  And you can pick like, whatever essence you want in it.

• 48:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:08Speaker 02

  Oh my God, I'm such a sucker for like, presentation.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 48:12Speaker 02

  And that's the whole bit of a martini, is like,

• 48:14Speaker 01

  You feel like you're-

• 48:15Speaker 02

  They taste great to me, but it's, it's the aesthetic, it's like, the way that they, you know, do the twist, or if you like a dirty olive, like, it's, you know, it's the whole thing.

• 48:24Speaker 01

  Do you like, here's the extra dirty?

• 48:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I've gotten recently into like, the blue cheese stuffed olives. Now, I'll, I haven't really like, gotten to that TikTok Caesar salad martini shit.

• 48:36Speaker 01

  That's disgusting.

• 48:37Speaker 02

  And I'm a savory cocktail girl, like, I love a dirty martini, but if you're putting like, pepper and olive oil and vinegar in that, I'm like, first of all, how are you not shitting your pants?

• 48:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, immediately.

• 48:52Speaker 02

  That's the first thing that will happen with that.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  I just like, don't understand, I feel like not everything needs to be made into a drink. And I feel like with martinis, like somehow, everything, like they have like hot cheeto martinis. I'm like, this is just too much for me to bear.

• 49:04Speaker 02

  I just like, had a little bit of like bile.

• 49:07Speaker 01

  Baby barf, yeah.

• 49:08Speaker 02

  Baby barf. Um, yeah, no thanks.

• 49:12Speaker 01

  Okay, I'm so excited to ask you this, what are you therapist about today?

• 49:17Speaker 02

  Therapist. Is this like, therapized or you're pissed about something?

• 49:22Speaker 01

  You're pissed about something. Like, I missed my workout this morning, and it really fucked me up.

• 49:28Speaker 02

  Really?

• 49:28Speaker 01

  And I'd never, and normally I'd be like, yay!

• 49:31Speaker 02

  Sounds like a gift.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  No, I know, but like, I was so, okay, so I've been doing this thing, have you ever done EMS before?

• 49:37Speaker 02

  No.

• 49:37Speaker 01

  Okay, so it's like, they strap this machine to you, and it like, uh, it, uh, simulates like 600 crunches. It's like the most LA thing ever, but I've started doing it on the reformer for Pilates. And like, I literally have never been so snatched in my entire life after it, I was like-

• 49:55Speaker 02

  You're just being vibrated?

• 49:55Speaker 01

  No, I was like, what the fuck, I'll show you videos after this, I was like, what the fuck is happening? And like, my waist was like this, and like, I was the source I've ever been in. I was doing it again today, and I woke up, and I was like, oh, I missed it. So that was what I was pissed about.

• 50:11Speaker 02

  I think I know what you're talking about. Is it like M sculpt?

• 50:13Speaker 01

  Yes, it's M sculpt.

• 50:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Um, what am I therapist about? I'm pissed. I'm therapist.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  The top I wanted to wear today had a giant stain on it. I don't know.

• 50:27Speaker 01

  I'd be curious.

• 50:28Speaker 02

  I had a, I wish I had a cooler answer, but like I really wanted to wear that and um, it was like right here. And I tied penned it and it wasn't coming out and I was just like.

• 50:39Speaker 01

  Do tie pens work?

• 50:40Speaker 02

  The fuck? Usually, yes.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  Really?

• 50:43Speaker 02

  This one didn't. I had the hairdryer on it too. It was just like, yeah, that kind of, I guess like your workout. It's like throws your day off a little bit.

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Entirely. I woke up and I was like, okay.

• 50:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:54Speaker 01

  Like, you know, like, damn.

• 50:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know.

• 50:56Speaker 01

  What now?

• 50:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then I guess I'm not pissed, but I feel like it's a weird cosmic thing, but I like passed a coffee shop this morning that's at my hotel. Forgot that I had gone there before with this like ex and it just like brought back feelings of like anger. Um, but yeah, that was a weird morning. I feel way better now after talking to you.

• 51:17Speaker 01

  Oh, I feel amazing. I, this is the.

• 51:19Speaker 02

  Stain on the shirt, ex coffee shop.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  Yes, that's, those are really, I really appreciate those therapist answers.

• 51:26Speaker 02

  I appreciate yours.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  Thank you. Okay, do you know about the tell me what's wrongs?

• 51:32Speaker 02

  I, yes-ish.

• 51:34Speaker 01

  Okay, so the pussies submit for us. Tell me, they like tell us what's wrong essentially and we like prescribe them remedies.

• 51:42Speaker 02

  Okay, got it.

• 51:42Speaker 01

  So we just like give them advice.

• 51:43Speaker 02

  Let's go.

• 51:44Speaker 01

  And it's really fun. At least I like to think so.

• 51:47Speaker 02

  Okay, I'm, I love giving, I guess it's not unsolicited advice. They've solicited us.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  No, they, they've asked us for all that help. My guy friend flirts with me, leads me on, never leaves my side when he's single, but the moment he's with another girl, he ghosts me. I hate mixed signals and psychotic men. Help.

• 52:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're a, you're an option. You're just like a safety, you're like a binky.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 52:11Speaker 02

  You're a bestie binky for him.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  Has that ever happened to you before?

• 52:15Speaker 02

  No, but like.

• 52:18Speaker 02

  I've had vibes because I have, I, you know, it's like I, I work in music. So there's like tons of dudes around like

• 52:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 52:24Speaker 02

  My band, I'm always around like guys, I feel like, but um, I've never felt like friend zoned in that way or led on, but like I've seen them do it to people.

• 52:34Speaker 01

  It's horrible.

• 52:35Speaker 02

  It pisses me off.

• 52:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:36Speaker 02

  I'm like, what the fuck? Like this girl is so too good for you.

• 52:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 52:40Speaker 02

  And she's just on your back burner.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  Oh, it's horrible.

• 52:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I feel like you're just a little pacifier for him until he like is with the girl he wants. So fuck him.

• 52:50Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 52:51Speaker 02

  Uh, sorry, that was like very.

• 52:53Speaker 01

  No, that's really good advice.

• 52:54Speaker 02

  Okay, cool.

• 52:55Speaker 01

  That was really good advice.

• 52:57Speaker 02

  I'm therapy pissed for you.

• 52:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm pissed too. So I was on track to get back together with my ex. Then I found out he got another girl pregnant and purposefully hit it from me. I'm spiraling and lost and don't know what to do. Revenge or hear him out?

• 53:09Speaker 02

  Oh, revenge. Like, there is no hearing out.

• 53:12Speaker 01

  Are you a revenge person?

• 53:14Speaker 02

  I'm really petty.

• 53:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  What's the pettiest thing you've ever done?

• 53:19Speaker 02

  I mean, I, I don't know if it's petty, but I definitely wore what I wore during the Zed set uh, for a particular person to see.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. Do you think they saw it?

• 53:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, they saw it.

• 53:34Speaker 01

  Cheers to that. Eyes.

• 53:37Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  You have to eyes or it's a fat buck?

• 53:40Speaker 02

  Uh, but no, like, uh, that's insane. I can't believe that, well, he would do that. Or actually, I can believe.

• 53:47Speaker 01

  I can believe that he would do that.

• 53:48Speaker 02

  But no, you don't need to hear anything. You need to block.

• 53:52Speaker 01

  Block.

• 53:52Speaker 02

  Instantly.

• 53:54Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 53:54Speaker 02

  Now he's a father.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, now.

• 53:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, he needs to worry about that.

• 53:58Speaker 01

  And not, not, not for someone that you have any relation to.

• 54:02Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 54:02Speaker 01

  It's not your child.

• 54:03Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 54:05Speaker 01

  Literally. Hi Jake, an amazing guest. You. So I have a guy best friend with benefits for a year now. Jeez, these are all the same.

• 54:12Speaker 02

  I know. Is this the same girl?

• 54:15Speaker 02

  It's the same, this is the same girl sending these in.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  I think so. So I have a guy best friend with benefits for a year now. I ended up getting a boyfriend and my guy friend has been super respectful and sweet about it, but I lowkey still have feelings. So long story short, I cheated with my guy best friend and I don't know what to tell my boyfriend. Please help. Oh. I don't think it's the same girl.

• 54:33Speaker 02

  Okay. Um.

• 54:37Speaker 02

  I mean, it sounds like you want to be with your guy friend, right?

• 54:41Speaker 01

  I don't think I could ever cheat on someone. The guilt that would chew me up. I don't know what I would do.

• 54:46Speaker 02

  No, I would just, no, it would eat me. I was gonna say eat me out. It would eat me up.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  Have you ever been cheated on before?

• 54:55Speaker 02

  It would eat me out inside.

• 54:59Speaker 02

  I have not been cheated on that I know of, but just, I've seen people that have and I've like, gone through that awful exercise of just like spiral of like, what if this person that I love and loves me, like the worst kind of betrayal to me.

• 55:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 55:18Speaker 02

  I would be just, I don't think I could ever do this again.

• 55:21Speaker 01

  Right.

• 55:21Speaker 02

  Like, just trust someone, but I mean, people survive it, I suppose.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  But, um, no, like, I guess that's why I don't really have like a cheating song, but I, no, with this one, I mean, it sucks that you would like get into something with someone else.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  I know.

• 55:39Speaker 02

  While you clearly like, truly like this other person or love this other person. I, I mean,

• 55:48Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 55:48Speaker 01

  I think I would prescribe-

• 55:49Speaker 02

  I need to break up with your boyfriend.

• 55:51Speaker 01

  Number one, that, and then I would prescribe Unfaithful by Rihanna.

• 55:54Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 55:56Speaker 01

  I feel like that's like the one song I can think of.

• 55:57Speaker 02

  That's your punishment.

• 55:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, where you have to listen to that and be like-

• 55:59Speaker 02

  This is about you.

• 56:00Speaker 01

  I did this. I got with a random guy after a bar crawl with my friends. I went to a lecture two days later, only to see him sitting at the desk in front of the class. Help me, please. Do I drop the class or suck it up? So he's your professor?

• 56:14Speaker 02

  Wait, so they went on a bar crawl?

• 56:16Speaker 01

  And then she hooked up with this guy and he's her professor?

• 56:20Speaker 02

  What's wrong with that? That's kind of hot.

• 56:21Speaker 01

  That's, I, seriously, that was my dream in college. That was my dream in college.

• 56:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, okay, so the professor fantasy?

• 56:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:29Speaker 02

  I mean, that's a normal one.

• 56:30Speaker 01

  Did you go to college?

• 56:31Speaker 02

  I went to like one semester, but I like to say that I did. No, I dropped out, but-

• 56:37Speaker 01

  Well, obviously.

• 56:37Speaker 02

  I liked, um, I liked my political science class. I went to like, um, a, a music school. Well, it had like amazing music programs, but the programs were like jazz and classical.

• 56:49Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 56:50Speaker 02

  So I was just like, they don't have anything for me. Um, I should have like gone to Belmont or something in Nashville, but I didn't know about it. So I went to one semester, but the funny thing is, is like this college, they're great, but like, they claim me as an alumni.

• 57:03Speaker 01

  Okay, got it, yeah.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  I was like, it would be cool if they just gave me like a flashy degree.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  You should do the commencement speech and be like, I never.

• 57:11Speaker 02

  I would.

• 57:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:12Speaker 02

  No, I never commenced. I never turned the tassel, but I mean, you guys have me as alumni.

• 57:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 57:20Speaker 02

  On your website.

• 57:21Speaker 01

  My boyfriend and I want different lives. We've been together for two years. My whole fr- my whole family loves him and begs me not to leave him. What should I do?

• 57:30Speaker 02

  I've been there where like your family loves and friends like love this person that you're with and it's just, you know, it's such a fixture in your life, but I mean, you know best, like you know that, you know, you've got a lot of life left and you've got to be a little bit selfish and you're gonna let people down. You're gonna let your mom down, you know, but it's like they're not the one dating them.

• 57:55Speaker 01

  Also, I feel like you'd rather let other people down than let yourself down. And also, I feel like if you stay with him, you're just gonna hold resentment towards those people in your life.

• 58:05Speaker 02

  For sure. And who's to say like the next person that's a better fit for you, they'll probably love too, because they love you. But yeah, no, don't do it for your family.

• 58:14Speaker 01

  Right. I've had that before where my friends have broken up with someone that I'm like literally would die for and it's like, it's not about you.

• 58:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Did you ever feel like the kid of divorce and you're like having to choose between mom and dad?

• 58:27Speaker 01

  Well, I never had to choose.

• 58:29Speaker 02

  That's good.

• 58:29Speaker 01

  But like, it was like, damn, this is sad.

• 58:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's definitely like a weird feeling when.

• 58:36Speaker 02

  Two people that you love like split and then you're like, oh god. I mean, my, my gut is always like side with the girl.

• 58:45Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 58:45Speaker 02

  That's who I'm choosing, sorry.

• 58:47Speaker 01

  No, I mean, of course, but I forgot, like, do you know people that have like, is it hard when like you have friends, like married friends that like get divorced and then you're like, what do I do now?

• 58:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it sucks. It's like, it's, I mean, it doesn't suck as much as it sucks for them, but I mean, it's just like an awkward thing because in Nashville, you know, I've been divorced for a little over a year now. It's a small town.

• 59:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 59:13Speaker 02

  We're all friends and we all work together and the music industry is very tiny there. So, you know, it's even though like I'm really friendly with my ex and we have our son. That's always like our biggest priority. I think that it's, it is weird because it's like we were together for so long that so many of our friends like had to sort of.

• 59:34Speaker 01

  Pick sides.

• 59:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, just in terms of like respect for each other. It's like, I saw a friend of my, like a really close friend of my ex's at a bar a couple of months ago and I was with my best friend and we all used to hang out together for like a decade or more. And then it's like, damn, it's just gonna be kinda weird. Maybe it's just weird for the first few years. Couldn't, I don't know.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  I just remember my parents always saying like it was hard when like people would get divorced and they were like, we don't, you know, it's like tricky.

• 1:00:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I mean, I think like I, I just always like side with, I always picked like the girl.

• 1:00:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too.

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  That's who I'm gonna like connect with.

• 1:00:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:00:12Speaker 02

  But, um, no, I think it's, it's great because it's like, I think naturally people just go where they feel loved and like supported and, but no, I think that's just, I feel like that happens the more you get older too, is like, you feel like friends sort of, no matter what's going on in your life fade away, like if they're not, you know, energetically aligned with you anymore, which is like, kind of sad, but it's also like, but I have these solid people that have been my ride or dies.

• 1:00:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:00:41Speaker 02

  I feel like COVID changed a lot of people, like when I had my son, I could feel like people fall away. I think like when you have kids sometimes.

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  Because you were just like on different wavelengths.

• 1:00:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, like I think. As a new mother, like it's just already such a lonely time and you feel like very isolated. Plus it was covid, but like I certainly like made friends who are moms through the process. And there are like some badass bitches that like got me through a lot of that. But yeah, you just like naturally kind of realize like, oh, those people like probably put me in a different.

• 1:01:19Speaker 01

  Section, yeah.

• 1:01:21Speaker 02

  But it's interesting.

• 1:01:22Speaker 01

  Did you like, how was like postpartum and stuff for you? Cause I like am friends with a lot of, uh, like I know a lot of moms there. Like I just wasn't expecting it to be what it was.

• 1:01:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, everything I had to throw out the window because you know, it's the pandemic and I couldn't tour. Everything got canceled, so that was enough of an identity crisis of like, oh my God, I can't do the thing that I've been doing since I was a kid, but I think that was probably a healthy stop for me was like, you've got to stop attaching your worth to what you do.

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  Your work.

• 1:01:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that was a good lesson, but a hard one. And then, yeah, in combination with like postpartum depression, definitely dealt with that. And some of it was probably just circumstantial too, because I think everyone was like going through it.

• 1:02:09Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:02:10Speaker 02

  Year or two, but um, no, like I'm out of the woods now. I'm great, but like it's, it's definitely an interesting experience. I think there's a lot more tools and um, you know, just things to, to look into now than like my mom's generation or her moms. So we have more um, help now, but like it's, it's certainly something that I always like to talk about because I just never heard like other artists that work and are women doing this. Um, talking about like that sort of lonely thing where even like your own partner doesn't understand what's going on inside your brain.

• 1:02:50Speaker 02

  And um, but no, like, thank God, I had like amazing help and got on an antidepressant for a couple of years and just like rebalanced my hormones. Like, that's all it was. It's just like, everything's out of whack. But um, no, like now, I think it all happened the way it was supposed to. Like, I was supposed to stop working and like, figure out who I am without music and who I am as a mother. And now, everything can kind of come back in a more equalized, balanced way. And I am happier because I'm not so tied to music as like, my value system. I know that I love

• 1:03:30Speaker 02

  myself even without the music career stuff. And I love myself without like, the Grammy, or all the cool things that have happened to me because of this like, work ethic and talent. But, I mean, no, I'm like, I show up far better now for myself, for my son, for my friends, for my, like, employees, and like, my fans, because of those, like, two really hard years.

• 1:03:56Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm sorry. But it's amazing that you're great now.

• 1:03:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. I was like, great. And then like, you know, the personal life stuff imploded. Um, but no, like, now it's like, with all this new stuff happening, and I don't know, this whole week has just been such a, like, mar- like, marathon, but celebration, because it was like, I put this children's book out, I am gearing up for this fourth record, that's taken so much to kind of write for and get out. And then Coachella just felt like a victory lap. But, um, no, it's just like, I'm so excited for the rest of the year, because, you know, I've been through the hardest shit I've ever been through. And um, no, I think like, I mean,

• 1:04:43Speaker 02

  you've just heard the record this morning, but I was like, I'm really glad that this is not all about grief and a, you know, a divorce. It's a lot about like, what happens after, which is, you know, messy and funny and all the things, like, but I, um, no, it's all, it's all in there.

• 1:05:02Speaker 01

  When did you start writing the record?

• 1:05:05Speaker 02

  Um, it was a couple of years ago, so it was a lot of stop and start with that because I was touring, started writing, and then I was working with Jack Antonoff. And then I feel like right after I wrote, written with him,

• 1:05:23Speaker 02

  you know, my relationship kind of fell apart with my ex and it was just all happening at once. And then I was also going through a lot of stuff with like my music genre and how I wanted to put music out, continuing on and like where to send it to because I was just sort of not, I was like outgrowing a lot of what was going on in country music and the way that I had like existed within it. And I just wanted to change things and I felt like the only way to do that was to make really hard decisions and change it up in terms of like label and um,

• 1:06:05Speaker 02

  you know, just how to write for this and um, all the while, like the divorce was ongoing and um, yeah, so I was writing constantly through it. And so I'm surprised I even could show up like to the sessions because it was just my brain was so fried and thank God for my co-writers, just like pulling me out of it. It was just therapy and I uh, yeah, I just kept writing even after a lot of the heavy heartbreak because I was like dating again and that's fucking

• 1:06:38Speaker 01

  The worst.

• 1:06:39Speaker 02

  Awful. Yeah, I was like, I kind of want to write about this stuff too. Because it's like, I've never really gone through this. I've been like in a relationship for so long that dating in this modern world is um, strange. And also like, I'm, I'm a public person, like I'm not the most famous person, but when you're on a dating app or just like meeting people in this random way, it feels like already so exposed.

• 1:07:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:07Speaker 02

  And you just feel guarded no matter what. But no, it's been a, I mean, for the storyline, I suppose, for songs. It's been interesting and helpful.

• 1:07:16Speaker 01

  Was there like, um, so it was like cathartic to be in the studio during all of this and like get it all out?

• 1:07:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  Was there a song that um, was one of the most like cathartic to write? Or one of like the most personal like on the record?

• 1:07:31Speaker 02

  Um, I mean, I would say like the most cathartic was uh, this is how a woman leaves. That feels just like the most raw emotion, like guttural vocal I'm singing in terms of just like what I went through. But then um, I also love that, you know, songs like Push Me Over, Cry in the Car. I have a song coming out this week called Bed No Breakfast, which is certainly about um, the morning after a hookup. And I was like, this feels like a song for people, like hopefully anyone going through this. But then it felt really particular to my thirties because I was like, I really love my space now.

• 1:08:14Speaker 02

  Like this is the first time I've lived alone and had my own like house and everything I picked out is mine. Every piece of art on the wall is mine and just feels so empowering. And I'm dealing with that for the first time, like in my thirties and I have like a five year old and I'm dating again. And it's also just like this place of I don't really deal with bullshit from the people I'm dating either. I just don't have a fuse for it. Yeah, I'm like, nope, bye.

• 1:08:43Speaker 01

  Do you, do you like your thirties?

• 1:08:45Speaker 02

  Oh, vastly.

• 1:08:47Speaker 01

  More than the twenties?

• 1:08:48Speaker 02

  More preferred.

• 1:08:49Speaker 01

  Wow, that's not the first time I've heard that. Twenty-five.

• 1:08:52Speaker 02

  Okay, you're gonna be fine.

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:55Speaker 02

  That's like, you've already accomplished so much by then. So I think that the thirties rock because you're just out of those like horror story um, dates. Like I feel like I haven't had like a massive shit show date. I've had like, you know, some, yeah, yeah, I think my standards are just so high. And like, I just don't have enough time even to date.

• 1:09:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:09:17Speaker 02

  Because I'm working so much and I have my son. So when I do date, there's a lot of hoops that the person's already jumped through to even sit at dinner with me. So I do think like I've waded through a lot of riffraff before, you know, you like see me in person. But um, no, thirties have been immensely better because, well, I mean, you're just fully developed up here. And you, or most of us, um, like, I think you've gone through the, the shit show phase of dating or relationships. Or, you know, I know a lot of friends like already got divorced by the time they turned thirty. Because it's like so many people did those like. It's like early twenties marriages, fresh out of college. And then they're like, yeah,

• 1:10:02Speaker 02

  this wasn't it.

• 1:10:05Speaker 02

  But no, I think depending on where you are, it's like, I feel way more settled in myself. I feel way more settled in my career. I don't feel that like

• 1:10:16Speaker 02

  pressure of like always having to outdo something that you already did. It's just like you're a little bit more relaxed. And I think that's such a gift because you just also care so much less about what people think of you.

• 1:10:28Speaker 01

  Oh, I need that.

• 1:10:29Speaker 02

  Sure. I mean, like, it still creeps in, but like you just, you start to like loosen your grip on control. And I think because you're not in control.

• 1:10:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:10:40Speaker 02

  You think you are, but you're just not. And I think just allowing yourself to be humbled by the universe. And sometimes it's through the most embarrassing of events.

• 1:10:51Speaker 02

  You just learn to lighten up.

• 1:10:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:10:53Speaker 02

  That's been my thirties so far. I just turned thirty five. So I'm Thank you.

• 1:10:58Speaker 01

  Wait, what's your star sign?

• 1:10:59Speaker 02

  I'm an Aries.

• 1:11:00Speaker 01

  I love that. I love an Aries. They're fiery.

• 1:11:03Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. But like, I'm a Libra moon. And that was the moon that we just had at Coachella.

• 1:11:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:11:10Speaker 02

  I just felt like, I don't know, like really in my feels the whole weekend.

• 1:11:14Speaker 01

  I think it was, it was supposed to be an emotional full moon, right?

• 1:11:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I feel like it was a lot of relationship shifts and career shifts. I just felt like, I don't know, really held by the universe. I was like, I didn't fall on stage. That always feels like someone's taking care of me.

• 1:11:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:11:31Speaker 02

  But yeah, no, I, what are you?

• 1:11:33Speaker 01

  I'm a Scorpio.

• 1:11:34Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:11:35Speaker 01

  Gemini rising Gemini sun.

• 1:11:36Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 1:11:37Speaker 01

  Gemini rising Gemini moon, sorry.

• 1:11:39Speaker 02

  Cool.

• 1:11:39Speaker 01

  Gnarly. Yeah, a little gnarly. It's why I'm able to talk to people though, I think. Cause like my Scorpio, I don't think I'd necessarily be able to. And then my Gemini like makes me very talkative.

• 1:11:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, but like old soul deeply

• 1:11:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:51Speaker 02

  Connected to others quickly.

• 1:11:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:11:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:54Speaker 01

  Exactly. Do you, oh, this might always my favorite question to ask to artists. What music were you listening to while you were creating your record? Like, what have you been listening to lately?

• 1:12:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Like through my record, because I was writing over two and a half years for it, I went through a lot of phases of like, I got really obsessed with that Japanese house record. I

• 1:12:17Speaker 01

  I've never heard it, I've been meaning to.

• 1:12:18Speaker 02

  So good. Dua Lipa, just anything that would kind of pull me out of my sadness.

• 1:12:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:12:24Speaker 02

  I was like, I need to hear a beat and just someone that is always on vacation.

• 1:12:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, Dua Lipa is always on vacation.

• 1:12:33Speaker 02

  I'm looking about that life, like I, I mean, I saw like a TikTok comment about her and it was like, I mean, she's hot, she releases bangers every couple of years and then goes on vacation, like what a life.

• 1:12:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, she has the most incredible life and is engaged to the hottest person ever.

• 1:12:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, wait, are they engaged?

• 1:12:51Speaker 01

  Wait, are they? Did I just make that up? Okay, thank God. Did I just hear that like through the grapevine?

• 1:12:57Speaker 02

  And she's got like her like beautiful family out of her all the time. I don't know, she just seems so happy and cool. Yeah, I was listening to a lot of like future nostalgia and her most recent record. Cause I was actually writing with a lot of people that wrote with her.

• 1:13:12Speaker 01

  Oh, no way.

• 1:13:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, so like Tobias, Jesso Jr., I wrote with on this album of mine, Carolyn Allen. Yeah, I mean, it was just like, I feel like our writer worlds are really small too, and Julia Michaels.

• 1:13:27Speaker 01

  I'm obsessed with Julia Michaels and she's on the new record.

• 1:13:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:13:30Speaker 01

  How long have you guys been working together for?

• 1:13:32Speaker 02

  Um, I first met Julia during my last album and she and I wrote my song Circles Around This Town, but I'd been a psycho fan of her for so long. And I don't know, she's just one of those artists that is so unique. Her identity is so strong in herself and you can just tell like when it's a Julia Michaels co-write. Because I feel like we're all just copying her, like because she's such a unique point of view and she makes me feel extremely heard in the room because, you know, she's a woman. She, she works with so many women artists and I feel like we've all gone through these like, you know.

• 1:14:17Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:14:18Speaker 02

  And, and she's had that shit too, where it's like she's felt like taken advantage of by people she's been with, like for her, you know, artistry.

• 1:14:27Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. Have you ever felt that way before?

• 1:14:30Speaker 02

  I mean, I think sometimes I, I've felt, yeah, like a little bit, you know.

• 1:14:37Speaker 02

  Like pedestal'd by people that have like been with me or dated me. And then it's like, they're not really considering like the person. They're just thinking about like the talent or whatever. And it just ends up like blowing up. And um, so she and I have certainly like become soul sisters through all of this. But yeah, we wrote my song Cut together and I was like, please, thank you. I was like, please be the duet on this. Like we wrote it together, you would kill this. And then I was on her um, song Scissors a couple of months ago and she's just like such a badass. And then we were both in the Zed um, Coachella set.

• 1:15:16Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 1:15:17Speaker 02

  Between Julia and John Mayer. I was like, I feel like all of my buddies were in the Zed set the other night. And I just felt like so much less nervous because of that.

• 1:15:28Speaker 01

  Right. Oh my God, I really fucking wish I saw that set. I'm so sad I missed it.

• 1:15:32Speaker 02

  I'm sad for you.

• 1:15:33Speaker 01

  I'm super, super upset about it. I also miss Gaga, like I just.

• 1:15:37Speaker 02

  See, I, I was so bummed to not be there Friday because I wanted to see Gaga. I wanted to see Missy Elliott.

• 1:15:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:15:42Speaker 02

  I'm just.

• 1:15:43Speaker 01

  And T-Pain was sad Friday, Saturday?

• 1:15:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, Saturday. And oh my gosh, like it was just a millennial dream.

• 1:15:50Speaker 01

  I know, this weekend really was.

• 1:15:52Speaker 02

  Come on.

• 1:15:53Speaker 01

  I love millennials. I'm like the biggest millennial defender ever.

• 1:15:56Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:15:57Speaker 01

  I really am.

• 1:15:58Speaker 02

  We get so much like flack.

• 1:16:00Speaker 01

  You guys shouldn't. And honestly, I saw um, a TikTok the other day that was like Gen Z is jealous of millennials and they call millennials cringe. But like millennials were able to like grow up in that era where like trying was accepted and cool. And like, that's why they're able to be cringe. And now like Gen Z is like so scared to do anything.

• 1:16:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it was just also like the, the sort of gift of growing up without technology, although like I, when I watched the show Pen 15, I was like, this is a little bit too close to home because the whole episode about. AOL Instant Messenger.

• 1:16:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:16:37Speaker 02

  So we like did have technology, but it was like super janky. And then, you know, the iPhone was born, but so it's like we've gotten to live in both worlds, which is like, you know, y'all have grown up with all of it. So, yeah, but also anytime I see a millennial cringe TikTok, they are the, the videos that other millennials are cringed out by too.

• 1:16:56Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:16:57Speaker 02

  They were never accepted.

• 1:16:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:59Speaker 02

  I was like, what the fuck? Like, why are, why are we getting lumped into this? I was like, we never acted like this.

• 1:17:05Speaker 01

  Never. That's what I always think too. Also, were you ever an iChat kid?

• 1:17:09Speaker 02

  iChat?

• 1:17:11Speaker 01

  It was like, were you an iChat kid?

• 1:17:13Speaker 02

  What is iChat?

• 1:17:14Speaker 01

  Oh my God, you guys.

• 1:17:16Speaker 02

  Like, like Apple?

• 1:17:17Speaker 01

  Yes, it was like the, um, it was like AIM on Apple and you would like video chat people and.

• 1:17:23Speaker 02

  I mean, I do remember like, um, what was this? It was, um, not Chat GPT, Chat Roulette.

• 1:17:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:31Speaker 02

  That was a, that was a moment, um, in time, but I remember like the MacBook filters and all of that.

• 1:17:37Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, yes. Oh, I'm currently a high school senior and I'm trying to.

• 1:17:41Speaker 02

  I love that we're still in this.

• 1:17:43Speaker 01

  I know, me too. I was like, we got so into the other thing. I was like, wait, how am I going to go back to the Tommy What's Wrong?

• 1:17:49Speaker 02

  No segue.

• 1:17:50Speaker 01

  Cause I was like, and I was just like, you know what? I'm just gonna do it.

• 1:17:53Speaker 02

  Okay, let's go.

• 1:17:54Speaker 01

  I'm currently a high school senior and I'm trying to decide on schools. I love this tiny college by the beach, but I'm nervous that I'll miss the party scene I'd get at a big school. What should I do?

• 1:18:04Speaker 01

  I think the party scene at a, someone who went to a big school and a party scene there, it is incredibly overrated. It's like so fun for a year. I had like the time of my life. And then you're kind of like, what now?

• 1:18:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, I wonder if they could just do like one year there and then get it out of their system.

• 1:18:20Speaker 01

  And then go to the tiny beach?

• 1:18:22Speaker 02

  Honestly, like growing up in Texas, I was like, I would love a like intimate, you know, experience by the beach and then just like walk to class and hear the ocean.

• 1:18:29Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:18:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, do that. Yeah.

• 1:18:32Speaker 01

  I was in Santa Barbara the other day and like, there was just like all these kids like at the beach that went to UCSB. And I was like, damn, that sounds awesome.

• 1:18:39Speaker 02

  What was that show with like Britney Spears sister?

• 1:18:42Speaker 01

  Zoe 101.

• 1:18:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, they shot that at like Pepperdine.

• 1:18:45Speaker 01

  Pepperdine, yeah.

• 1:18:45Speaker 02

  That was like my dream college.

• 1:18:47Speaker 01

  Was it really?

• 1:18:47Speaker 02

  Only because of the show, but I was also like, what an amazing experience that would be.

• 1:18:52Speaker 01

  I used, they used to have this drink in Zoe 101, I forget what it was, it was like Blitz or something? And it was like a Boof Gatorade and like I always wanted that. Do you know what I mean? Do you know what I'm talking about?

• 1:19:02Speaker 02

  Yes, I just haven't heard Boof in so long.

• 1:19:04Speaker 01

  Boof is my, that was, that was like, that was like my COVID word, Boof. Like, everything was so Boof.

• 1:19:10Speaker 02

  Boof Gatorade is so good. Wait, what was your drink in college?

• 1:19:14Speaker 01

  Red Bull vodka or an AMF.

• 1:19:17Speaker 02

  What's that?

• 1:19:17Speaker 01

  Adios, motherfucker.

• 1:19:19Speaker 02

  What is that?

• 1:19:19Speaker 01

  It was like a, it was like a blue drink with vodka. I don't know, they would send me to different places, but I would have an AMF or a Red Bull vodka. Uh, my friend, my best friend Peyton would make us, oh my, I'm gonna throw up thinking about it, a vodka Sprite. To this day, I cannot have Sprite anymore because that was our chaser in college.

• 1:19:41Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:19:41Speaker 01

  And like I, I'm gonna throw up thinking about it. What was your drink?

• 1:19:45Speaker 02

  I had like two, there was, um, we've talked about millennial stuff so much, but there was, um, they still make it, but it's called Hypnotic.

• 1:19:53Speaker 01

  Ooh, what's that?

• 1:19:54Speaker 02

  It's just like a blue liqueur.

• 1:19:58Speaker 01

  Understood.

• 1:19:59Speaker 02

  It's also like very opaque, like it, it wasn't clear, it was like milky.

• 1:20:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:04Speaker 02

  I don't know what's in it.

• 1:20:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:06Speaker 02

  We need to find out. But then I also loved Goldschlager.

• 1:20:09Speaker 01

  What is Goldschlager?

• 1:20:10Speaker 02

  It's like a cinnamon schnapps, but it is clear, but it has flakes of gold in it.

• 1:20:17Speaker 01

  Oh, have you had this?

• 1:20:20Speaker 02

  It's sick. It was like pre-fireball, like obsession too, uh, but it was disgusting. But like, it was such a moment, cause I thought I was so cool, like with my giant bottle of like gold flakes.

• 1:20:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was like me with my Tito's, I would just carry it around.

• 1:20:36Speaker 02

  That's still like okay though.

• 1:20:38Speaker 01

  No, I still drink, Tito's is still my vodka of choice and that was my college vodka. There was occasions where I would do plastic vodka, they would call them plandles, so a plastic candle.

• 1:20:48Speaker 02

  Okay, got it.

• 1:20:48Speaker 01

  I would wake up with the gnarliest hangovers known to mankind, like I would regret my life.

• 1:20:53Speaker 02

  That's sick.

• 1:20:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, uh, sometimes I miss college and then most of the time I'm like, no I don't.

• 1:20:59Speaker 02

  No, it was embarrassing.

• 1:21:00Speaker 01

  It was so embarrassing, it was so embarrassing. Everything I did was embarrassing. Like, everything. I was like, I can't even look back on it. It's just mortifying.

• 1:21:08Speaker 02

  You can't even look back two years ago.

• 1:21:10Speaker 01

  Why? Why?

• 1:21:16Speaker 01

  One night I was watching Netflix on the family iPad and I forgot it was connected to my mom's phone. I saw her sex with her new boyfriend. I want to bleach my eyeballs.

• 1:21:24Speaker 02

  Are we supposed to give advice or just react to that?

• 1:21:26Speaker 01

  I honestly don't know.

• 1:21:28Speaker 02

  The family iPad, okay. I, um, ooh, this is kinda crazy. I won't say who it is, but like, I have a friend whose ex, like, they have a family iPad.

• 1:21:43Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:21:44Speaker 02

  And I guess was still hooked to the like iCloud and there were like dick pics on her kid's iPad.

• 1:21:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't think the kid saw it, but like, but like, she got to it before, but I was like, you need to have a separate iCloud account for your child.

• 1:22:02Speaker 01

  That's the cloud.

• 1:22:03Speaker 02

  Don't have the family iPad.

• 1:22:05Speaker 01

  The cloud's gonna explode one day and like, everyone's gonna lose everything and it's gonna suck.

• 1:22:09Speaker 02

  You're gonna be showered in dick pics.

• 1:22:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, all, all, the whole time.

• 1:22:12Speaker 02

  It's raining dick pics.

• 1:22:14Speaker 01

  I've been talking to this guy online who's great, honestly, but will not stop sending me memes, like not funny ones. It's a huge ick for me, but I like everything else about him. We're gonna meet for a date, but I'm low-key debating canceling. Do I just get it over with?

• 1:22:27Speaker 02

  If you don't respond if someone sends you like, multiple memes, shouldn't they get the, the idea?

• 1:22:33Speaker 01

  Men don't get ideas ever.

• 1:22:35Speaker 02

  Okay, got it. Um, I should've known. What's more of an ick, like sending kind of lame memes or them, a guy sending you selfies?

• 1:22:46Speaker 01

  Selfies, ew.

• 1:22:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that would, that would be worth like cancelling the date over.

• 1:22:51Speaker 01

  I think with memes, it's like, I, I can excuse that, you know, cause I feel,

• 1:22:57Speaker 02

  I could look past it.

• 1:22:58Speaker 01

  I can look past that because to me, like, I would like to hear their sense of humor in person. And if it's horrible, then,

• 1:23:04Speaker 02

  You'll know.

• 1:23:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll know.

• 1:23:06Speaker 02

  But no, like, I, I find, I have people that like, are so funny in real life and, Like my band, they make me laugh constantly. We spend a lot of time together. But then sometimes like memes will be sent and I'm like, this is your online sense of humor?

• 1:23:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:23:24Speaker 02

  So I will say like, give it a shot on the date.

• 1:23:27Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:23:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, cuz people are different on the internet.

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  Have you had like the same band your basically entire career or?

• 1:23:32Speaker 02

  Pretty much, yeah. Like I've had my drummer with me since the the very beginning.

• 1:23:37Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:23:38Speaker 02

  And then the rest of them, it's like a couple of years after that. So I mean, it's been like a very consistent thing for me luckily because it's like we've witnessed all these insane moments, like career moments together. And you know, I'm just like, I take care of them, they take care of me, went through COVID, like, you know, I I just, I feel like it's such a comfort for me because I have all these other things going on to, in a live setting, I want to have the people that I've always had around me.

• 1:24:06Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 1:24:07Speaker 02

  And you know, sometimes life stuff happens, kids have had, you know, been had and I think, you know, sometimes people move away or, you know, that kind of thing. But for the most part, I've had the same crew.

• 1:24:18Speaker 01

  That's, I feel like that's the best feeling in the world. Cause you feel like you've like climbed something together.

• 1:24:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I think like you just till your own soil and you treat people with kindness and like, take care of them if you can't. I mean, I think, you know, one of the proudest moments of my career was being able to put my bands on salary and like give them healthcare. Cause

• 1:24:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:24:39Speaker 02

  At to up till that point, they were just like day rate.

• 1:24:42Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:24:43Speaker 02

  But now it just feels like, you know, I I want to have those people.

• 1:24:49Speaker 01

  Succeed as well and taken care of, right? Are you planning to tour this album?

• 1:24:54Speaker 02

  I am. It would be weird if I didn't, but everything's still like in the pressure cooker, like it's it's cooking. Um, but I have a lot of ideas, but I'm just trying to get the music out first. Not cart before the horse, but I am, yeah, I'm a road rat.

• 1:25:12Speaker 01

  You love it?

• 1:25:13Speaker 02

  I love my bus.

• 1:25:15Speaker 01

  I I I've I've recently just started touring and I like, I enjoy the bus as well.

• 1:25:18Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, it's the best. It's just such a step up because like when you go from Well, like, I started in fifteen passenger shitty vans.

• 1:25:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:25:28Speaker 02

  Like, Sprinter van feels like an upgrade. And then you move up to the bus and you're like, I've made it. I guess beyond that is like, private plane.

• 1:25:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:25:37Speaker 02

  I like stepping onto wheels, going to bed, and then waking up in the next city.

• 1:25:42Speaker 01

  Do you get it? Do you sleep well on the bus?

• 1:25:45Speaker 02

  Uh, most of the time, yes. I think it depends on how good of a driver you have.

• 1:25:49Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:25:50Speaker 02

  If it's a really good driver and they're not, like, at 3 a.m. veering into the rumble strips.

• 1:25:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:25:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, that will wake me up. But, um, I also like, I'm kind of addicted to Z-Quill. Oh, me too. Conk myself out.

• 1:26:06Speaker 01

  Let me sleep.

• 1:26:07Speaker 02

  Let me sleep.

• 1:26:07Speaker 01

  No, have you had let me sleep?

• 1:26:09Speaker 02

  Oh, I thought you were saying, let me sleep. Is this a Kardashian thing?

• 1:26:14Speaker 01

  Yes, I'm, no.

• 1:26:15Speaker 02

  Is it melatonin?

• 1:26:16Speaker 01

  It, I don't know what is in it, but it's the reason I missed my workout this morning.

• 1:26:20Speaker 02

  You slept that good.

• 1:26:21Speaker 01

  And I only took one. Sometimes I take three and it's like twenty hours.

• 1:26:26Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 1:26:26Speaker 01

  Well, the other day I got an IV with Benadryl in it and I slept for nineteen hours.

• 1:26:32Speaker 01

  It was wild.

• 1:26:35Speaker 02

  You IV'd Benadryl?

• 1:26:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's seriously, did I just say yeah?

• 1:26:40Speaker 01

  It's seriously was the sickest thing. I started to see blurry, like, I couldn't see. It was like I was given anesthesia. Esthia.

• 1:26:46Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:26:46Speaker 01

  Passed out for nineteen hours.

• 1:26:48Speaker 02

  Good for you. That sounds like a coma.

• 1:26:51Speaker 01

  It was.

• 1:26:53Speaker 01

  Okay, Maren, what did we learn today?

• 1:26:55Speaker 02

  Um, I learned that you have a lot of grace for millennials.

• 1:27:03Speaker 01

  I do.

• 1:27:03Speaker 02

  I learned that whoever is writing into your show,

• 1:27:09Speaker 02

  we've got to have some integrity lessons and build some self-worth. Um...

• 1:27:16Speaker 02

  And I've just had a gay old time.

• 1:27:18Speaker 01

  I've had a gay old time with you too. I think this is the most relaxed I've been in a while.

• 1:27:22Speaker 02

  Did you sleep nineteen hours?

• 1:27:24Speaker 01

  No, I slept like ten.

• 1:27:25Speaker 02

  Did you Benny yourself last night?

• 1:27:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, a little bit.

• 1:27:29Speaker 02

  No, you lemmied.

• 1:27:30Speaker 01

  I learned that you're a road rat.

• 1:27:32Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:27:33Speaker 01

  And I've learned, once again, that your thirties are better than your twenties.

• 1:27:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, I have heard your forties are better than your thirties, so I think it just gets better.

• 1:27:43Speaker 01

  That feels aggressive.

• 1:27:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's far for you. It's not that far for me.

• 1:27:47Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:27:48Speaker 02

  I gotta be looking down the lens of it. No, I think like, someone, I don't know if it was like Kate Winslet or someone else like badass, but it was just about, like, getting to age at all is such a gift.

• 1:28:00Speaker 01

  Oh, beautiful.

• 1:28:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, it comes with like some traumatic lessons and experiences. Hopefully no STDs, you know, you just get through it. But yeah, I think for the most part, as you get into it further and further, and hopefully you're going to therapy and getting therapists. I think, yeah, I would hope that you're, you're feeling more in your skin each year too.

• 1:28:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:26Speaker 02

  You know, also, I just feel way less like judgmental of myself and others because I'm not looking side to side every time I do something. I'm not comparing.

• 1:28:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:28:38Speaker 02

  I'm just like trying to get through what I'm doing and do it the best.

• 1:28:44Speaker 01

  Well, you're fucking crushing it.

• 1:28:45Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:28:46Speaker 01

  And I love you and I loved spending time with you.

• 1:28:47Speaker 02

  I love you. I have been obsessed with you since my like

• 1:28:51Speaker 01

  Have you really?

• 1:28:51Speaker 02

  discovery of TikTok when I was like trying to figure it out. And I feel like you were one of my first doses of it.

• 1:28:57Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:28:58Speaker 02

  And this feels really full circle for my career to be here with you today.

• 1:29:04Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, Marin.

• 1:29:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:05Speaker 01

  Stop it. Stop it right now. I actually adore you and I had, I feel like we need to get a drink.

• 1:29:12Speaker 02

  We do. So, okay, I'm here a lot, but you need to come back to Nashville. I need to take you to Sperry's.

• 1:29:17Speaker 01

  Yes, I want to go to Sperry's. I want to come back to Nashville and I want to drink with you.

• 1:29:21Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah, let's maybe avoid our college drinks.

• 1:29:25Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:29:25Speaker 02

  And get a martini.

• 1:29:26Speaker 01

  Martini.

• 1:29:26Speaker 02

  Martini.

• 1:29:27Speaker 01

  We'll do a martini.

• 1:29:27Speaker 02

  Or let's go to London.

• 1:29:28Speaker 01

  I would love to go to London with you.

• 1:29:30Speaker 02

  Maybe next year, let's do, we'll, we'll see each other before that, but like, let's do a Glastonbury.

• 1:29:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:29:36Speaker 02

  Duke's weekend.

• 1:29:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:29:38Speaker 02

  Okay, or Connaught.

• 1:29:39Speaker 01

  Done, done.

• 1:29:41Speaker 02

  Cheers.

• 1:29:43Speaker 01

  You want to say a little bye pussies?

• 1:29:45Speaker 02

  Bye pussies.

• 1:29:46Speaker 01

  Oh, you're so chic. I'm obsessed with you. I love you. I love you. Thank you for coming on.

• 1:29:51Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:30:01Speaker 03

  Coca-Cola. For the big, for the small, the short, and the tall. Peacemakers, risk takers. For the optimists, pessimists. For long distance love. For introverts and extroverts. The thinkers and the doers. For old friends and new. Coca-Cola. For everyone. Pick up some Coca-Cola at a store near you.