Session 73: Jay Shetty

You’ve seriously just changed my life… Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/JAKE Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $25 discount Tickets on sale now for LIVE WITH JAKE SHANE at passthatpuss.com! Go see Jay on the “On Purpose Live Tour”! Click here for dates! https://www.jayshetty.me/tour Tell Me What's Wrong at ⁠ passthatpuss.com Follow Me! Instagram | @passthatpuss TikTok | @octopusslover8 Listen to "THERAPUSS" Spotify: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/1BHDdC0OVuHqZ706FobfOF ⁠⁠Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/therapuss-with-jake-shane/id1723626781⁠⁠ Amazon Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/93117357-1f23-46e1-8f26-88f5182a68b8/therapuss-with-jake-shane⁠⁠ YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@octopusslover8 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:10Speaker 00

  Hi pussies and welcome back to Therapist. Tonight, we have on Jay Shetty, who literally sat here and changed my life. We talk a lot about meditation and we talk a lot about controlling the mind. But then we get into stuff like dating and intimacy and whatever. And it's just a really beautiful episode and I'm so happy that Jay came. He is the best and if you want to see him on tour, he is currently on the On Purpose Live Tour, which might be coming to a city near you. But yeah, the episode was great. I kind of just want to let you guys just go into it and experience it, but without giving too much away, but it's amazing. To see if I'm coming to a city near you, go to passthatpuss.com and click Live with Jake Shane. And to submit a tell me what's wrong, go to passthatpuss.com and click Tell Me What's Wrong.

• 0:55Speaker 00

  Leave a name and number if you're feeling fancy. Okay, enjoy the episode. I love you pussies.

• 1:02Speaker 00

  Hi pussies, welcome back to Therapist. Today, we have host of the award-winning podcast On Purpose. He is about to head out on his first ever podcast live tour. And he is just the greatest of all time. Please welcome Jay Shetty.

• 1:16Speaker 01

  Oh Jake, that's so sweet. Thank you so much.

• 1:18Speaker 00

  Oh my God, and I forgot to include that you're a New York Times bestselling author.

• 1:21Speaker 01

  You don't, it doesn't matter.

• 1:22Speaker 00

  It matters to me.

• 1:23Speaker 01

  It really doesn't.

• 1:24Speaker 00

  It matters to me.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  It was, it was, it was perfect and heartfelt, so that's more important.

• 1:29Speaker 00

  It was heartfelt. I'm anxious for some reason, but I'm really excited that you're here.

• 1:33Speaker 01

  I'm really grateful to be here and I know we were DMing a couple of months ago or whatever. And I'm such a fan of what you're doing and how you're getting these incredible messages out there in this really nuanced way and it's beautiful to watch, so thank you.

• 1:44Speaker 00

  You think I'm getting incredible messages out there?

• 1:46Speaker 01

  Hundred percent, hundred percent. You're having an impact. I feel like you're able to talk about really meaningful stuff, but make it hilarious, make it funny. That's the greatest superpower.

• 1:54Speaker 00

  Oh, thank you.

• 1:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, truly.

• 1:57Speaker 00

  Thank you. Did you hear that? Meaningful. Meaning. Well, I, wait, I have so many questions for you, but I kinda wanna start. So your journey kind of started when you were in university, right?

• 2:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:11Speaker 00

  And you heard someone speak and then you kind of like adapted this entire new lifestyle.

• 2:15Speaker 01

  Absolutely. That's right. You want me to tell you about it?

• 2:18Speaker 00

  Please.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  I was, I was born and raised in London. And I, I was, I always described myself, I was an average kid. I was doing everything under the sun, messing around, having fun. But when you grew up in an Indian family, the most important thing is getting good grades at school. So I always managed to get good grades at school. And I really thought that I was gonna graduate, get a safe job, get married, have kids, like, like do the thing. And all of that was kind of flipped on its head when I would go and get invited to go to talks at university.

• 2:49Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  And this is before podcasting. This is early days. So you actually went to events, you heard people talk in person.

• 2:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:56Speaker 01

  And I'm at this event and I hear this monk talk. And I was kind of skeptical, or in the beginning, maybe not skeptical, but I was a bit like, I don't know what I'm gonna get from this. I don't know if it's gonna resonate. I've grown up around monks. I'd seen monks before, but I'd never really met a monk or heard a monk speak in that way. And I was so blown away. And it was just like meeting someone that you were so attracted to, but it wasn't physical. And I was like, wait a minute, how am I so attracted to you? Like, I'm a, you know, 18, 19-year-old kid.

• 3:27Speaker 00

  Oh, you were that young. So you just had gotten to university.

• 3:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. And you're like this, at the time, he was maybe in his 30s. And externally, there was nothing attractive about him. He was wearing robes, he shaved his head. But I was just like, wow, everything was coming out of his mouth. I was just thinking, this is profound. And there were two things that stood out to me. One was, he was saying there's two goals in life. One is to master the mind and master your emotions. And the second is to serve others and help other people. And I thought, I've never heard that before. I'd met people who were beautiful, famous, rich, strong. I'd heard famous people talk before, but this was the first time that I felt he was happy and content. And I thought to myself, I wanna know what he's drinking. I wanna know what he's doing. And that's what changed the trajectory of my life.

• 4:13Speaker 00

  Wait, so what did you, what did he mean by like master the mind?

• 4:16Speaker 01

  So he was basically talking about the idea of Think about this for a second, and I'm sure you can relate. Humans have sixty to eighty thousand thoughts per day.

• 4:27Speaker 00

  That checks out for me.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, more or less.

• 4:29Speaker 00

  Probably more.

• 4:30Speaker 01

  Probably more, right?

• 4:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  And eighty percent of those are negative.

• 4:35Speaker 00

  I would, yes.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  And eighty percent of those are repetitive.

• 4:39Speaker 00

  Also correct.

• 4:39Speaker 01

  Yes, so we're having the same negative thought again and again and again. It's not even like a new thought. It's the same thought, like it could be as deep as I'm not good enough. Or it could be as silly as like, oh, my gosh, I'm just really stressed about this one thing I did at work in this meeting. And I keep overthinking and I wish I didn't do that, right? And, oh, did this just happen?

• 4:58Speaker 00

  Like, literally twenty minutes ago.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  What was it? Tell me.

• 5:02Speaker 00

  I can't.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh. So, so that's, that's kind of how I pray. Am I, am I reading your mind at the moment? Yeah. So this is, that's like the reality of our lives. And we've never, ever been taught how to manage our thoughts. Right? You're taught, you're not taught how to manage your time either, but you learn all these subjects in school. But no one ever taught us how to manage our thoughts. So these thoughts spiral, not just for days, for weeks, for months and years. And when I learned to spend time with him, I learned how to train my thoughts for peace, for purpose, for calm, for stress relief, for shifting gears. And it almost felt like I was having a new brain, almost.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  Because I had the ability to kind of press pause on a thought, to press rewind, to press fast forward, like to actually be able to have some navigation with my thoughts, which I never thought was possible. So that's what it means to master the mind and emotions.

• 5:58Speaker 00

  How did you, like, how did you do that?

• 6:01Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  So first step is figure out the patterns or the thought that keeps coming up. So for example, a thought that kept coming up for me for a long time was, I'm so tired. I'm so overworked. I'm exhausted. And that kind of, you see that kind of cascade into burnout, right? So it starts with, I'm so tired. Next week, I'm exhausted. Third week, I'm burnt out. Fourth week, I don't want to get out of bed.

• 6:30Speaker 00

  Right.

• 6:30Speaker 01

  And we all feel that spiral. First, we have to figure out what's that thought that repeats itself and rents space in your mind more than any other thought. So I'm gonna choose that thought as an example. Now that I know that thought, that thought is actually a signal. It's a sign of the most obvious thing in the world. I need more rest. But what do we do? We say that thought in the morning when we wake up. You look at the alarm clock and you go, I'm so tired.

• 6:56Speaker 00

  Exhausted.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  Now, at 9:00 AM, you're having a morning coffee and you're going, I'm so tired. Now, at midday, you're like, I'm gonna have to skip lunch. I'm so busy. I'm so tired.

• 7:05Speaker 00

  Right.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  You get to 6:00 PM and you're thinking, I'm so tired. And somehow, at 10:37 PM, you click Next Episode on Netflix.

• 7:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course.

• 7:13Speaker 01

  And watch another show. And then you're up till 1:00 AM and it keeps going. So, what do I do with that thought? Second step, now that I'm aware of the pattern, I get to add an "and." I'm so tired, and an action. So I'm affirming, I'm still valuing, I'm acknowledging that I'm tired. I can't lie to myself and say, I'm feeling great.

• 7:32Speaker 00

  Right.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  I've got energy. You can't lie to yourself. Your thoughts are smarter than that. I'm accepting my thought, but I'm adding an action. And I'm gonna go to bed early. And I'm gonna cancel the next three evenings of plans. And I'm gonna have to let someone down this weekend. I'm gonna make an action and I'm actually gonna follow through with it because now I've saved myself from repeating that thought.

• 7:54Speaker 00

  Right.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  I can keep saying that thought all I want and I'll never give myself rest. Does that make sense?

• 7:59Speaker 00

  No, it makes complete sense. Can I tell you what I'm thinking about?

• 8:02Speaker 01

  Please.

• 8:02Speaker 00

  So, for the thought that gets repeated in my brain all the time is like, um, like, everything's gonna be taken away from me or I'm gonna fail and I'm gonna lose my career and I'm gonna lose my job. I don't know how to like, "and" that. You know what I mean?

• 8:18Speaker 01

  Let's do it right now.

• 8:18Speaker 00

  Okay, I'm gonna get cancelled.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  And?

• 8:22Speaker 00

  And my life would be over.

• 8:25Speaker 01

  No, no, but that's not an action.

• 8:26Speaker 00

  Oh, okay.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  So we're accepting the thought.

• 8:28Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  It's possible that everyone can get cancelled.

• 8:31Speaker 00

  Right.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  So that's real. I don't wanna lie to anyone about it. It's real.

• 8:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  And what's an action that you're gonna do?

• 8:38Speaker 00

  I literally don't know.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  Okay, so can I help you out?

• 8:40Speaker 00

  Yes, please.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  Okay, great. So here's the first thing I'm gonna say to you, Jake. You are far too talented for your career to ever be over. You're far too talented for someone to steal all of this amazing work that you've done away from you. And you're far too gifted and have too much to give people in the world for anyone to think that they could take that away. I just wanna set that straight before I even give you an and.

• 9:02Speaker 00

  You really mean that?

• 9:03Speaker 01

  I do mean that. I do mean that. And I'll tell you why. When I first moved to L.A., I met so many managers and I met so many agents and I met so many... The industry word is talent, but I met so many individuals who are talented and gifted. And the amount of managers and agents that used to say to people like you and people like me, "You've got six months. Make the most of it."

• 9:28Speaker 00

  Right.

• 9:28Speaker 01

  "Your career's gonna be over after it." The amount of young people I know that have been told that at age eighteen, age sixteen, age twenty-one, that you have six months. You have twelve months. Make the most of it. Make all the money you can and then forget about it. And the reality is, not only have I seen those people last far longer, what I've actually noticed is that those people have reinvented themselves, they've refound themselves. Sure, it may not be that you do a podcast forever.

• 9:55Speaker 00

  Right.

• 9:55Speaker 01

  But when you have something you wanna share with the world and give yourself to the world, you're gonna keep doing that forever. So I do mean that. And so what the "and" is, is saying, "And I'll find a new way. And I'll find a new strength. And I'll find a new medium. And I'll find a new platform. And I'll find a new way, a new medium, a new platform, a new... I'll find a new message, whatever it may be." Because what we try and do is we try and do everything to avoid the thing we're scared of.

• 10:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  That's what we're trying to do. Our mind is thinking, "How do I not get canceled? How do I not get my career to be over? How do I make sure that I'm not irrelevant?"

• 10:39Speaker 00

  Right.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  And that's where the overthinking comes in. Whereas what my technique is, is you accept it. That could even happen. And I'm still gonna live tomorrow. I'm still gonna breathe tomorrow. I'm still gonna be able to find a way to change someone's life tomorrow. I'm still gonna find a way to make someone smile, to make someone laugh. And if I've got to start back at one person again, that's okay. Because when I can make one person laugh, that will become two, that will become twenty, that will become two million, and it will keep happening.

• 11:04Speaker 00

  Right.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  And I believe that's true for you. And I know you may not believe it right now, and I don't need you to believe it right now, but I want you to start adding that thought. I want you to add that thought of, yeah, that could be possible. And the game is not over.

• 11:17Speaker 00

  Right. I feel like it just like impacts as how I live my life. I feel like I every like it impacts everything that comes out of my mouth and everything I do. It's like that's always in the back of my head. But that's really good advice, I feel like.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  Well, anytime you need me to say it again, just call me up.

• 11:34Speaker 00

  Oh, don't. Don't tell me that.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  No, but I think it's a message everyone needs to hear. I I don't think it's you, I don't think it's just me and you, it's it's everyone, right? Like even someone who's just started a new job right now, maybe they're out of college, they're starting their new job or they're applying for new jobs, everyone has that fear.

• 11:51Speaker 00

  Well, I've always had that fear. Like even when I worked corporate, like before all this, like I always thought I was gonna get fired. So I feel like in my line of work now, like how I view like a cancellation is like getting fired. It's like always in that thought, like it was kind of like when I was in high school, like I thought I was like, I always had this like, am I gonna get expelled? Or like, am I gonna not get into college? And then when I had a job, I was like, am I gonna get fired? And now it's like, am I gonna get canceled? So it's all like cut from the same cloth of like, I don't like, am I gonna get in trouble?

• 12:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I get that, yeah. And I think it's all about, I feel like the only way people continue is when they have something they care more about. And that's what I would encourage you to continue to look for is like, what do you care so much about that you would never allow yourself to stop doing what you love? Like, nothing's worth stopping doing what you love. Because you care about it so much, you believe in it so much, I'm assuming you believe in what you do.

• 12:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course. Or else I wouldn't be able to do it.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 12:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  And that's what gets you through. It's not the avoiding it, it's not the trying to figure out how to make sure it never happens. It's the fact that you just care about making people laugh, making people smile, making someone's day, and you're gonna keep doing that anyway. But before I started this, Jake, I was like, I used to sit in rooms like this and give talks to. First time I ever gave a talk, zero people showed up in a room this size.

• 13:13Speaker 00

  Are you serious?

• 13:14Speaker 01

  Genuinely, and I practiced my speech as if it had, the room was full. And then the second time I did it, no one showed up again. And I practiced as if the room was full. And then the third time, two people came, and the fourth time, five people came. And then it grew and grew and grew. And I post these pictures sometimes on Instagram of how it started and how it's going.

• 13:33Speaker 00

  Right.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  Just to remind people that there were loads of times I had to sit there and I did it because I loved it. I didn't stick it through because I hoped one day there'd be a million people.

• 13:42Speaker 00

  Right.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  I'm sure you've done that. Tell me about your journey. I'm sure there's been so many moments. I see you now touring and, you know, selling out venues and all the rest of it. I'm guessing it didn't start there.

• 13:52Speaker 00

  It kind of started like, well, no, it started as like, it started as like a joke, honestly. And like, I always talk about like, it was funny because like the week before, um, everything kind of like, I don't know if this similar thing happened to you, but like everything kind of shifted over like the course of a week. You know, like that one week where like suddenly like everyone's paying attention. That like kind of happened with me and I was, but right before that week, like I was very content and I was very happy. Like I didn't um, want anything more. I wasn't like, like, of course, like I wanted something more, but I wasn't always thinking about it. And I wasn't very anxious and like, I had my job and I had um, like my Instagram account, my TikTok. And I was just kind of saying whatever I wanted and doing whatever I wanted.

• 14:33Speaker 00

  Um, and then it, it's kind of like, it all blew up very fast over a week. So I think I kind of got used to this idea of like, this instant gratification, which is sometimes hard for me to like grapple with. Am I making sense?

• 14:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, you are making sense, absolutely.

• 14:48Speaker 00

  Okay, because I feel like I'm not making sense. But um, like I, it's, I did these skits on TikTok and like that really took me off from like, sixty thousand followers to a million. And then obviously like the talent agencies and everything kind of started falling into place. And then um, the touring is kind of where I like found um, purpose. I was like, oh, I really like being on stage and talking to people.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  What was it that you liked about it the most?

• 15:15Speaker 00

  Hearing their laughs in real time.

• 15:17Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 15:17Speaker 00

  So like, it was like, it felt like I was. Like in back in the living room with my best friends, like making them laugh.

• 15:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:24Speaker 00

  And I know it's not like a standard comedy show, but like it is kind of like just hanging out with me. And um, I think that's like my favorite part of it at all. Do you like touring?

• 15:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, what I love about what you're saying though is that we both love the same thing about touring, even though I'm not necessarily making people laugh. It's the intimacy.

• 15:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:46Speaker 01

  Like you, it makes you feel like you're in your living room, making your friends laugh. Like I visualize the intimate rooms and spaces that I had that were kind of like this, where I'd speak to three people. And I'd pour my heart into it and spend three hours and four hours with them. And so when I'm on stage, I'm always trying to make each person feel like they're the only person in the room.

• 16:05Speaker 00

  Right.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  Like it's such an intimate individual experience. I love touring. I went on a world tour two years ago. We did nearly forty cities across the world, went everywhere from Australia to India to Dubai to Europe, of course, all over the States. And the thing I loved about it most is humans are so much more alike than they are different. Everyone always asks me like, what's the quirks of this city or this country? And there were some, like when I went to Australia, everyone banter's back. If you make a joke with someone in Australia, they're coming back for you.

• 16:36Speaker 00

  Oh, okay.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  Awesome. And it's great, like really good energy. And then if, when I was in Florida, it was crazy. And uh, this, this lady had this really emotional moment with me on stage, but then wanted a picture where she was doing the splits and then a headstand and all this other stuff.

• 16:51Speaker 00

  Florida.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  And yeah, and then I was in, then when I was in Boston, uh, I would walk out into the, walk out into the audiences parts of my show. They're very interactive. I bring people up on stage. We do loads of experiments and interactive sessions. I'd walk out to the audience and loads of guys would like literally grab my hand and be like, take my girlfriend on stage, like literally just grabbing me by the hand. Uh, and so that was the most, that was the place I got touched the most. But it was just, there were all these quirks, but at the same time, the heart of the show, the parts that moved people, the parts that connected with people, the parts that resonated with people were exactly the same. And so that's what I love about touring is seeing how in a world where we think everything's so divided,

• 17:32Speaker 01

  and we think that people are so different, and we think that there's so many things that are pulling us apart. We actually all, we all resonate deeply with the same things. And so that's what I love about touring the most.

• 17:46Speaker 00

  What do you think like we all resonate with similarly?

• 17:50Speaker 01

  I think at the core of it, we're all moved by the same things. There's a reason why we all be on TikTok crying at a dog video. Right? Like, there's a reason for that. There's a reason why that video went viral in the first place. Because it made everyone feel something. And I think when you think about what ninety nine point nine percent of humans wanna feel. We wanna feel love. We wanna feel seen. And we wanna feel understood. And when you can do that through comedy as you do, or when you can do that through insight and wisdom as I try to do, or when you can do that in all the beautiful ways that musicians do and actors do. When people feel that, that's what they're really looking for. And I think we're looking for spaces in the world that make us feel seen, heard and understood.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  And you do that in your way and I try and do that in my way.

• 18:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, I definitely like love giving people that space. Um, I feel like that is actually now that I'm thinking about it, like, kind of like, I like to give people to be seen through, like, it's okay to like complain and be a bitch sometimes. You know, which is the polar opposite of your message.

• 18:55Speaker 01

  No, not at all. No, no, no, it's not. I think it's good for people to vent.

• 18:59Speaker 00

  I, it's all I, I love to do it.

• 19:01Speaker 01

  Who, who's, who's your venting, who's your venting partner? Who do you vent to?

• 19:04Speaker 00

  Um, a lot of people, uh, it depends. I usually talk someone to someone and then once they get tired of hearing it, I just go down the next to the line.

• 19:13Speaker 01

  Well, well, you've learned the good technique. So if you're going to vent, spread the vent.

• 19:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:19Speaker 01

  The biggest mistake people make is that they put all their venting and all their pressure onto one person. And that is so paralyzing and debilitating for that person.

• 19:30Speaker 00

  You know.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  That they can't handle it. And then we think they don't care about us or they don't have time. And the truth is they just don't have the capacity. And so what I recommend to everyone is know who in your life, you go, what you go to them for, and make sure you know who you are for other people too. And I think that a lot of us, if we spread our venting, and if everyone did that, you'd actually find, oh, this person's really good when I have a relationship issue. This person's really good when I feel anxious. This person's really good. And so what I often say to people is, write down on a piece of paper. Everything you ever need help with. And then write down a name of different people. Who can help you solve those problems.

• 20:07Speaker 00

  My hand would fall off.

• 20:08Speaker 01

  And make sure that you're doing them back. Make sure you also know what you give to those different people. Cause I'm sure there's some people that you're just there to make them laugh. And then there's someone that vents to you and opens their heart. And then there's someone else that, someone that you just love to hang around with. And so it's really important to figure out what different roles people play in our life. And what roles we play in theirs.

• 20:29Speaker 00

  I have a question for you.

• 20:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:30Speaker 00

  So back to what you were saying about like the, the, how to master your mind. How do you, cause like I, I'm, I was thinking, I was just like ruminating on it. Sorry if I'm like jumping around. But like I, how do you like believe that? Cause like, I can say all I want, like, oh, and I'll be fine. Or and I'll do, but like I, how do I like force myself to believe that?

• 20:53Speaker 01

  So it's not, and I'll be fine. It's and an action. That's the really key part. It has to be a practical action that you're gonna take. It's not just saying it to yourself. So I, I don't believe in you sitting there going, uh, I'm scared of getting canceled, but I'll be okay. Because that doesn't work. Like your mind goes, well, what if I'm not? What if it doesn't work out? So it's like, what action am I gonna take? I am going to keep making three people laugh. If that's all that's who shows up. I am still gonna go on tour, even if it goes small again, right? I'm still gonna make a video, even if there's only 3,000 people left. Cause guess what? You started at zero.

• 21:30Speaker 00

  Right.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  You've already done that. I remember one morning I woke up. I was just about to hit a million followers at this time. So I was at like 984,000 on Instagram. And I was just about to hit a million followers. And I woke up and my whole account was wiped. And there was no posts, no followers. Everything was gone, like zero on everything. And I remember talking to my wife about it so she can vouch for the story. I was talking to my wife about it and I was like, oh, have you got a glitch on Instagram today? And she was like, no, no, mine's fine. And I'm messaging my friends just to see if it was a glitch. And everyone's like, no, it's fine. This was like six years ago now, or something like that. And I'm, I'm texting all my friends just to make sure. And then I realized it's just me. And I'm thinking, okay. And I took a beat.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  And I was like, okay, I'll start again. Okay, that's it. We start again. We go again. And I really believed that in that moment because I love doing what I do. I love the content I was creating. I knew it was resonating with people. I was like, I can do that again because I've done it before. You've started at zero before. You can do it again. And so the action is saying, I am going to keep creating stuff that I believe in, even if three people like it. Even if I upload a TikTok tomorrow and it doesn't do well, I'm going to still allow it to be out there because I really care about what I'm doing. So it's taking an action that puts you into that discomfort right now. So that when and if the real discomfort comes, you're already ready. It's called priming.

• 23:00Speaker 00

  Okay, amazing.

• 23:01Speaker 01

  Sorry, I took you in a totally different tangent.

• 23:03Speaker 00

  No, please, that's what this is all about. It's all about tangent. When you, okay, so back to when you were at university and this monk came and spoke to you. Did you then live as a monk for a few years?

• 23:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I finished college. I graduated. But I missed my graduation ceremony because I went and became a monk for three years.

• 23:21Speaker 00

  What was that like?

• 23:22Speaker 01

  It was, I mean, we traveled a lot. So we lived across India, UK and Europe for those three years. And it was truly one of the best investments I ever made. I thought I was going to do it for the rest of my life. So I had a very different view going in. But now when I look back, I feel so lucky. It will sound crazy to everyone because you're waking up at 4:00 AM. You have two sets of robes. You wear one, you wash one. All your possessions fit inside a gym locker.

• 23:47Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  And you don't even have your own bedroom or bed. You sleep in a room that's about three times the size of this. And there's like sometimes 30 people in it or in a bigger room. If you're traveling, there could be 200 people in it.

• 23:59Speaker 00

  What if you get hot?

• 24:01Speaker 01

  You deal with it. Like there is no A, there's no AC, at least in India. There'll be fans because they still use the old school method in the monasteries. And it was just, it was a beautiful experiment in surrender and detachment. In the sense that you don't get to choose what you eat. You don't get to choose where you sleep. You put a mat down and fall asleep wherever in the room that there's. And it creates this really beautiful part in the mind, which just goes, I have no control. And I'm not in charge and I'm still alive. And it's like a really beautiful realization.

• 24:35Speaker 00

  And then what is your, like, what is your day to day like as a monk?

• 24:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, so the morning hours are usually spent in meditation.

• 24:42Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  From like four till like eight AM. And so there's group meditation and private meditation. There's a class every day at eight to nine, which is based on spiritual wisdom, which is five thousand years old. So you're learning from a teacher or mentor. And then for the rest of the day, you do different chores, cleaning, things around the monastery, but then you go out. So you go and feed homeless children. You go and help people on the streets, especially in India. You go and cook for them. You go and take part in all of these beautiful philanthropic ventures that were so meaningful. And that's what I was saying earlier is about mastering the mind in the morning and then serving for the rest of the day.

• 25:19Speaker 00

  Oh, yes.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was really beautiful. So I remember like going to schools and giving kids food who don't have a packed lunch, who can't afford meals. And you'd look at the expression on this kid's face. And it would just fill you up for the rest of the day that you were like, all right, I'm gonna wake up tomorrow morning again. And I'm gonna go out and do it again. It's one of the most beautiful, beautiful things.

• 25:40Speaker 00

  That's really beautiful.

• 25:41Speaker 01

  So that I wanna take you to as well. Can we shake on that?

• 25:43Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 25:44Speaker 01

  There we go. All right.

• 25:45Speaker 00

  I would love that. I would really love that.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's really special. It's like this, it's the most like, it's almost like we've got so obsessed with ourselves.

• 25:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:55Speaker 01

  And our anxiety and all of our overthinking is because we feel like this is the main character and all that matters.

• 26:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  And when I lived as a monk, I felt like life was about everyone else. And so you don't even think about your problems because you're out there helping other people and serving other people and making a difference. It's, it's liberating almost because you forget about your challenges and problems while you're helping others with theirs.

• 26:19Speaker 00

  That is really, I would love to do that.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:21Speaker 00

  I feel like I also think of myself as the main character all the time and I need to get out of that. So like that sounds amazing. So what, I'm very curious about the meditation aspect because my parents and everyone has always told me to try to meditate because they said it's very good for your anxiety as well. What, what is like, my worry is like when I meditate, like I just get really tired. And then I like want to fall asleep sitting up. Like what is like the goal of medit-, like can you tell me a little more about meditation?

• 26:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Well, first of all, I'm going to say if you fall asleep during meditation, it's your body telling you you need sleep. Because what meditation is doing in the way you've done it is your mind and body are constantly at odds with each other. When you wake up in the morning, your mind says, God, I've got so much to do and your mind starts racing. And your body goes, I wish we were still in bed. Or you wake up and it's the opposite. You wake up and your body's running around and your mind says, I wish we were still in bed. So all of us are experiencing our mind and body being out of sync. When you meditate, you're actually bringing your mind and your body into sync. So if you fall asleep, that's your body and mind saying, we need rest.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  And so when you meditate, whatever you feel is actually what you need at that moment in time. So the fact that you fell asleep while meditating, it's perfection. It's brilliant. Like that's not a bad thing. You didn't do it wrong. What is the goal of meditation? There's three types of meditation that I was trained in and that I teach, and they all have a different goal. Breath work is for the body. It's to regulate our body. If you think about it, and I think, I'll tell you the story because I think you and your community will appreciate it. I remember my first day of monk school and I saw a 10-year-old monk teaching younger monks. And I was watching them and after the class I asked him, what were you teaching them? And he said it was their first day of school. And he asked me, what did you learn on your first day of school?

• 28:22Speaker 01

  And I was like, maybe like A, B, C, or 1, 2, 3, like, I don't know, like I can't remember. And he said, well, on their first day of school, we teach them how to breathe. And I said, what do you mean? He said, well, if you think about your life and you think about every emotion, he said, every emotion is connected to your breath. He said, when you're happy, what changes? Your breath. When you're sad, what changes? Your breath. When you're anxious, what changes? Your breath. When you're elated and ecstatic, what changes? Your breath. Your breath is connected to every emotion in life. So if you learn how to manage your breath, you can navigate life. And so breath is all about learning how to regulate an emotion through our body.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  So if you think about it, when you're nervous or anxious, you're breathing fast and you're breathing shallow. That's what happens. We will breathe fast, our palms get sweaty. And so when you start exhaling for longer than you inhale, your heart rate slows down, it goes deeper, no more shallow breathing. And all of a sudden, you go, oh, I actually have the time and space to react to this anxiety. Because I realize I've got rid of the physical stress and nervousness I was feeling. Now maybe I can go and talk to my manager to figure this out. Now maybe I can talk to my mom about it. Now maybe I can talk to my friend about it. I've actually created a space between the anxiety I feel and then actually having a reaction to it. So that's what breath work does.

• 29:48Speaker 00

  Oh, that's incredible. I think I need to do breath work.

• 29:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, breath work is amazing. So if you want to relax, and by the way, I get stressed and nervous too. I practice this throughout the day. I will breathe out for longer than I breathe in. Should we do it together?

• 30:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:03Speaker 01

  Okay, so I want you to inhale and I want you to inhale at your own pace slowly.

• 30:07Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  But I want you to exhale for longer than you inhale.

• 30:10Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 30:10Speaker 01

  So inhale.

• 30:13Speaker 01

  Exhale.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  Place your left palm on your stomach. And as you inhale, I want you to feel your-

• 30:22Speaker 00

  Close my eyes or keep them open? Whatever you like, okay?

• 30:25Speaker 01

  So as you inhale, as you inhale, feel your stomach come out.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  And as you exhale, feel it go in.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  As you inhale, feel your stomach go out.

• 30:42Speaker 01

  And as you exhale, feel your stomach go in.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  Open your eyes.

• 30:53Speaker 00

  I definitely feel more relaxed.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  And all we're trying to do, and that was just three breaths. All we're trying to do is create a space.

• 31:00Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  Between that reaction that we have. Oh my god, I'm so stressed. Oh my god, I'm so nervous. Oh my god, I have so much to do. To then going, wait, I've dealt with it in my body. All of a sudden, everything's more calm. Now I can actually get with it. So that's breath work. The second one that I love is visualization. I do this a lot. And can I share a really simple technique with you?

• 31:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  So when I came in here, I did this. And now I do it so subconsciously that no one around me may even notice. But I do it to feel grounded in a space. It's called the five, four, three, two, one technique. So whenever you want to take a mental picture, or whenever you want to feel grounded, follow this. When you walk into a space, look around at five things you can see. It could be a shade, a color, a shape, whatever it may be, and allow yourself to just become aware of five things you can see. Then four things you can touch. So I touch this amazing octopus. Touch the chair. Touch the table. Touch a hand. And you're just becoming present through touch.

• 32:08Speaker 01

  Then three things I can hear.

• 32:10Speaker 00

  I can hear you.

• 32:11Speaker 01

  You.

• 32:12Speaker 00

  I can hear...

• 32:16Speaker 00

  Not much else.

• 32:16Speaker 01

  Some white noise.

• 32:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, some white, some white noise. Some white noise, and then I can hear the sound of my own voice. Does that count?

• 32:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. And then two things I can smell.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  I smell some wood.

• 32:28Speaker 00

  I smell wood too.

• 32:29Speaker 01

  I smell wood. There's a lot of good wood.

• 32:31Speaker 00

  Some Old Spice.

• 32:32Speaker 01

  Some Old Spice.

• 32:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Old Spice, not Old Spice, but yeah.

• 32:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  My fragrance or whatever it may be.

• 32:38Speaker 00

  And you smelled really good when you came in.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  Thank you, thank you so much. And then one thing you can taste.

• 32:44Speaker 00

  The popcorn I was just eating.

• 32:45Speaker 01

  Mine's a mint that I had before I walked in.

• 32:47Speaker 00

  Oh, okay.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  And so as soon as you've done that, you've basically taken a mental picture. I've done this in some of the most beautiful places I've traveled to in the world. I can close my eyes and transport myself right there. If I'm nervous about something, when I was coming on your show and I was really excited about it, I watched your show, I was watching your show already, but when I was coming on, I watched your show to get a feel of the set. The colors I'd be around and all of a sudden I feel more comfortable here because I feel like I've been watching you anyway. So I feel like I'm sitting somewhere uncomfortable. It's not new, it's not alien. If I hadn't done that, if I wasn't a fan, maybe I would have walked in and been like, oh god, like, how do I sit and where, you know, it's, you let go of that. So it's almost like a dress rehearsal in your mind.

• 33:27Speaker 00

  Oh, okay.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  Or a mental picture.

• 33:29Speaker 00

  Okay, love that.

• 33:30Speaker 01

  So five, four, three, two, one.

• 33:31Speaker 00

  Right.

• 33:31Speaker 01

  I do that. And then finally, there's what's known as sound meditation or mantra meditation. And that's the repetition of an affirmation or an ancient word. And the genuine goal of that is to connect with the source, to connect with higher energy, to connect with the universe. And I also practice that because I find it aligns me and puts me in sync with all of the beautiful things about the universe that I love. And so those are the three types of meditation and what they're for. So it's almost like a menu and choose what works for you.

• 34:05Speaker 00

  Oh, that's amazing. Ed, well, do you have like a meditation experience that like has been one of your most memorable? Like you're like, oh, I'll never forget that meditation because that was like one of the most memorable?

• 34:16Speaker 01

  That's a good question. No one's ever asked me that before. Yeah, no one's ever asked me that before.

• 34:21Speaker 00

  Me?

• 34:22Speaker 01

  If, if you rethink like a monk, you hear about all the bad meditation days.

• 34:27Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 34:27Speaker 01

  So I talk about all the days when I'm like, I just wanted to scratch my foot and I just wanted to get up.

• 34:32Speaker 00

  You can't scratch your foot when you're meditating?

• 34:33Speaker 01

  When we were first being trained, it was very disciplined because you had to learn how to bring your attention. You can, everyone should scratch their foot.

• 34:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  But when we were getting the hardcore training, they were saying things like you sit on the floor for two hours straight, cross legged. Like, you don't get up. Again, I don't do that anymore.

• 34:49Speaker 00

  Right.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  You should sit in a comfortable chair, everything else.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  My favorite meditation experience. I started meditating around twenty years ago. And I had my best meditation experience this January.

• 35:02Speaker 00

  Really?

• 35:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:03Speaker 00

  Where were you?

• 35:04Speaker 01

  I was back at the monastery that I lived at in India. In the village part of it, it's two hours outside of Mumbai. And I was with my teacher. And my wife and I go every year now together. And the best thing about it was we would meditate in the same place every single day. And what made it so beautiful is that people have been meditating there for decades.

• 35:26Speaker 00

  Right.

• 35:26Speaker 01

  So the energy of that space. It's almost like when you go on stage somewhere and you know your favorite artist has performed there or something. It just has like a spirit or an energy that you wouldn't get anywhere else. And I just felt so connected to God and the universe in that moment. In a way that I never have before. I felt I was exactly where I was meant to be. I felt that everything I'd experienced was exactly the way it was meant to be. I was able to accept that with grace. And I felt really empowered and energized for what I wanted to accomplish this year. So it was really beautiful.

• 35:59Speaker 00

  And that's and how long did that? How long did you meditate for to get that feeling?

• 36:03Speaker 01

  We meditate, I meditate for about ninety to. Yeah, I meditate for about ninety minutes every day. And so that was about probably two hours of a bit more than that that time.

• 36:15Speaker 00

  And what type of meditation was that? Was it breathwork? Was it five, four, three, two, one? Or was it?

• 36:20Speaker 01

  So I I start with breathwork every morning. And I'll do that for like two to three minutes. I then do visualization for around two to three minutes. And then I'll do mantra meditation for the rest of the time. That's my that's my longest form of meditation. But I practiced breathwork and five, four, three, two, one throughout the whole day.

• 36:38Speaker 00

  Right.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  Like I would do it if I'm like rushing to a meeting. And I'm feeling really behind and I'm feeling really tired and I'm feeling like I'm taking all this baggage with me into the next meeting. It's like, all right, five, four, three, two, one. Like, let's really be in this present moment. Let's really be in these colors, shapes, shades. Let me look at the person that I'm with in the eyes. Let me really be here. I don't want to be in my last meeting or in my next meeting.

• 37:01Speaker 00

  That's honestly. I feel like that's exactly what I needed to hear. I have the hardest time being present. It's like probably like my number one pitfall is like I can I'm either thinking about something that was happened before, something that might happen or something. Yeah, not nothing that's happening currently.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, and five, four, three, two, one is the best way to be present. There is no better meditation technique to be present than five, four, three, two, one. Because as soon as you're present physically, you're not doing in your head. You're looking around, you're touching this. You feel the temperature, you feel like this chair is cooler than the wood, which feels hotter and then your hand, which we touched earlier, like, you know, it's like. You're you're actually like getting tactile and that's why I love it as a meditation practice because you're not doing in your head.

• 37:44Speaker 00

  I feel like it's especially hard for me and people in my generation because we're so like I'm so addicted to my phone, Jay. Like I like I like I I don't know. Sometimes I think it really like. As someone who already has trouble being present, like it makes it so much worse. Like I feel like I especially with like. God love TikTok because it gave me my career, but especially with TikTok and everything like when I close my eyes, I see my lock screen. Like, you know what I mean? Like I am so I couldn't be more addicted if I tried like all I can like think about is like the glow and like. It's hard for me to like, sometimes I'll be in like the most beautiful place in the world that like I used to dream of going to as a kid.

• 38:30Speaker 00

  And all I want to do is be on my phone and like I don't know how to fix that. I don't know how to help myself. I don't know because like I. Think it's like a legitimate addiction.

• 38:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, this well, this technique will help. Definitely try it out. We were in I went to Bhutan last year, which is. A tiny little country landlocked between India and China. And we practiced this there and I literally can close my eyes and remember that moment and that's how powerful it is. But to your point about phone addiction. Sometimes I feel like my brain is scrolling.

• 39:01Speaker 00

  It yes.

• 39:01Speaker 01

  And my brain even scrolls while people talk where I'm like, all right, get to the point, like be entertaining. Like I I my wife will call me out on it and I have to be honest with you like I will literally see my wife has called me out on this a few times. Or I'll be like, all right, get to the good part. All right, tell me what's going on. All right, let's let's get to the point.

• 39:17Speaker 00

  I think I do that.

• 39:18Speaker 01

  And we all do that when we're scrolling because you're trying to find that next thing, right? You're like entertain me, entertain me. Okay, let's start. Oh, good. Okay, this got my attention. All right, boring, boring, boring. Okay, entertaining, entertaining, boring, boring, right? Like that's what we're doing. And I do that with people. Like I've done that with my wife, boring, boring, boring, or it gets to the entertaining part. And so I think this is real and I think we all genuinely struggle with it. And here's what I've learned. The one thing that can change it is don't look at your phone first thing in the morning. And don't look at your phone last thing at night.

• 39:51Speaker 00

  Ooh.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  Now, eighty percent of us look at our phones before we look at our partners.

• 39:56Speaker 00

  I sleep next to my phone like it is my partner.

• 39:58Speaker 01

  Yes, and eighty percent of people look at their phones lasting at night after their partners. So this is a real issue. But why am I saying it? It's because the mind is so powerful in the hours of sleep and that wake state. Have you ever had it when you wake up and you can kind of remember your dream? But then if you snap awake, you forget it completely?

• 40:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, unless it's like so bad that I'm like, eh.

• 40:23Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 40:23Speaker 00

  You know?

• 40:24Speaker 01

  But there's like that tiny bit of like almost waking up where you can still remember your dream. It's still there. And then if you wake up or your alarm goes off or you're looking at your phone, you, someone was like, what did you dream about? You'd be like, I have no idea unless it was really, really terrible.

• 40:37Speaker 00

  Right.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  And so that time of just before going to sleep and just waking up, you're actually programming your mind. You're programming your brain. Sleep is meant to be a dishwasher. That's what sleep actually is.

• 40:49Speaker 00

  I'm obsessed with that analogy.

• 40:50Speaker 01

  Right?

• 40:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  Sleep is meant to be, as the studies show, a dishwasher.

• 40:55Speaker 00

  Right.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  You put all the dishes in at night, you wake up in the morning and they're all clean. It's filtered your thoughts, it's edited the negative ones, it's made space for the bigger things in life that we need to think about. All of them are squeaky clean, they're polished, it's figured it out. But you don't get the dishwasher to work when you forgot to switch it on because you're too busy scrolling your phone. And now you never turn the dishwasher on, you wake up in the morning, you open it up and go, oh my gosh, I forgot to turn the dishwasher on.

• 41:24Speaker 00

  And now I'm going about my day with dirty dishes.

• 41:26Speaker 01

  Exactly, dirty thoughts.

• 41:27Speaker 00

  Right.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  Not in that way, but you get the point.

• 41:29Speaker 00

  No, yeah.

• 41:29Speaker 01

  So, so the reason why I say that is you would never let a hundred people into your bedroom first thing in the morning.

• 41:39Speaker 00

  No, no.

• 41:40Speaker 01

  Before you've washed your face, brushed your teeth. Maybe had a shower, you never let a hundred people walk into your bedroom. But we all let a hundred people walk into the bedroom of our mind every morning. When you open up your phone and you see a message, it's like someone coming up to you and saying, Jake, you still haven't sent me that document. It's like someone else coming and saying, hey Jake, do you wanna go out tonight? Hey Jake, you up? Right, whatever it is, right? It's like all of these people are literally standing around your bed yelling at you, asking for stuff, demanding things, telling you bad news. Now you've got to find a way of unprogramming that throughout the day.

• 42:20Speaker 00

  Right.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  That's impossible.

• 42:22Speaker 00

  My thing is though, I, if I don't get messages in the morning, that also makes me upset.

• 42:28Speaker 01

  I get that. Who from?

• 42:30Speaker 00

  Like, anyone. Like, I just like want to feel like missed as I rest.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Tell me who, I love that and I get that, I, it's real. Tell me who you genuinely, we all love getting messages from everyone. But if you could pick three people that you love their morning messages, who would it be?

• 42:49Speaker 00

  Their morning messages?

• 42:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, like someone that you like to be missed by in the morning when you wake up. But you can only pick three people.

• 42:55Speaker 00

  If there's like a guy I'm talking to, like I'd appreciate a text from them.

• 42:59Speaker 01

  Do they usually text?

• 43:00Speaker 00

  No.

• 43:00Speaker 01

  Okay, fine, so let's get that person off the list.

• 43:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  See, you don't need morning messages. That's what we're learning, Jake.

• 43:10Speaker 00

  Like, I, I love, I love texts from, like, I love texts from my friends.

• 43:13Speaker 01

  Right, so, so let's say a couple of your friends. If people, like, so for example, my wife will sometimes wake up and be really nervous that she'll get bad news from London.

• 43:22Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 43:23Speaker 01

  Our family's in London, right? Parents, siblings, nieces, nephews, everyone. So it's real. And what I've recommended to her and recommend to everyone else is have a phone that only three people can access. Because those are the people that you really need to hear from in the morning. I know my wife needs to wake up. I know that her grandma's good and her mom's good.

• 43:46Speaker 00

  Right.

• 43:46Speaker 01

  And that her sister's good. I know she needs to know that. And then she can go about her day. And I get that and I really understand that. But you don't need everyone to have access to you in the morning. And that's what we're trying to get to is if you had a phone that had no apps, nothing else on it, it had your alarm if you really want that and it had the three people.

• 44:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:04Speaker 01

  That's it. And then keep the other phone in another room because there's no need for it. And if you want to make it really good, get a flip phone, get one of those really basic, old school Motorola, Nokia, whatever. No, no, no.

• 44:15Speaker 00

  No.

• 44:16Speaker 01

  You won't be seen with it, Jake. No one will ever see you with it. But, but make it so hard to be distracted, but get the information you need. If you need those three messages in the morning that say, Jake, you're hot, I love you, you're amazing.

• 44:28Speaker 00

  And like so funny.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, and so funny. Sorry. Right.

• 44:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:31Speaker 01

  Have that. That's, I'm not mad at that.

• 44:33Speaker 00

  Right.

• 44:34Speaker 01

  But keep it limited because the problem is your habit in the morning and the night is what's filled up for the rest of the day. So if you get that dopamine hit in the morning of bored, bored, bored, bored, bored entertainment, bored, bored, bored, bored, bored entertainment, you're now looking for that throughout the whole day.

• 44:49Speaker 00

  A hundred percent.

• 44:50Speaker 01

  And when you don't get it in the morning, your brain gets time to wake up and go, I really loved those three messages from my friends.

• 44:57Speaker 00

  Right.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  I really appreciated that. I'm really grateful for that. I loved that. And now I can go about my day. Now I'm not trying to get people to entertain me or solve my problems or tell me some terrible news that happened in the world. I can learn about that 10 minutes after I wake up.

• 45:11Speaker 00

  Right.

• 45:11Speaker 01

  30 minutes after I wake up. Let me let myself warm up. Would you wake up and go on stage in 30 seconds?

• 45:17Speaker 00

  No, never.

• 45:18Speaker 01

  Never.

• 45:18Speaker 00

  Never.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  But that's what we're doing on our phone.

• 45:21Speaker 00

  Right. Especially because like, like, the phone kind of is a stage or it's become one.

• 45:26Speaker 01

  Correct. Correct. And you never wake up and say to your manager, I'm gonna wake up, we're gonna have a bed backstage, I'm gonna wake up backstage and I'm gonna walk right on stage and do a show for thousands of people.

• 45:35Speaker 00

  No, I would never.

• 45:35Speaker 01

  You'd never do that.

• 45:36Speaker 00

  Right.

• 45:36Speaker 01

  We do that every day. And it's really hard on our minds, just as it would be hard to wake up backstage and walk out. That's how hard it is.

• 45:43Speaker 00

  So would you recommend, like, if tonight when I slept, I like plugged my phone in at my desk away from my bed, so then when I wake up, like I can shut off the alarm, but then I like brush my teeth and.

• 45:57Speaker 00

  Like, maybe like, drink your coffee.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's good. I like this. This is going well.

• 46:02Speaker 00

  And like, okay, but what's your stance on TV? Like, what if I like, like, what is your stance on like falling asleep to television?

• 46:09Speaker 01

  I am not mad at that if it helps you sleep. I would encourage you to think if you have anxiety and you're watching shows about people dying and bad stuff happening, that's definitely having an impact. So I would definitely encourage people to think about, you know, what they're watching before they go to bed. But I have a friend who likes to go to sleep to white noise and needs to have like friends on in the background or whatever it is. And it's like, sure, great. I have no issues with that, but don't go to sleep watching someone get murdered and then expect to have like beautiful dreams and wake up excited. It's not gonna work.

• 46:40Speaker 00

  Okay, so would you think though that maybe like reading would be healthier for me?

• 46:44Speaker 01

  I mean, reading would be healthier for everyone.

• 46:46Speaker 00

  Do you read?

• 46:47Speaker 01

  But yes, I love reading. Reading's, yeah, I love reading. And I'm, I fell in, see, the thing with all of this stuff is it's finding something that you love. So I grew up thinking I hated reading because I hated fiction books.

• 47:00Speaker 00

  Oh, you hated fiction books?

• 47:01Speaker 01

  And then I never knew there was such a thing as nonfiction.

• 47:04Speaker 00

  Right.

• 47:04Speaker 01

  But when I was like 14, I started reading biographies and autobiographies. I fell in love with them. I read David Beckham, Dwayne The Rock Johnson, when he was a wrestler. And then also read Malcolm X and Martin Luther King. And it was just, I was in, I was like this, I'm hooked. Because this is real life, real people, real problems. It's like a podcast, but in a book. Because you're learning about this person and their whole life. So, yeah, I love reading. I, I don't think it's about reading. I'm not saying that. I think it's just about the fact that you don't want your first and last programming of your brain to be your phone. Because the pace of your phone is not aligned with the pace of your brain.

• 47:39Speaker 00

  Right.

• 47:39Speaker 01

  And the problem that we all have is the pace of our brain follows the pace of our phone. So if you're scrolling at 100 miles per hour, your brain is now learning to move at 100 miles per hour. And then you don't have the meditation tools to slow it back down. So even for me, as someone who meditates daily, if I let that happen in the morning and the evening, my brain is also moving that fast. And now I'm having to work double hard in my meditation just to get it to slow down.

• 48:06Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 48:07Speaker 01

  So it's more about that. You can watch whatever you want.

• 48:08Speaker 00

  No, I'm really excited though to like plug my phone in.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:11Speaker 00

  Across from my room and see how that affects my sleep and uh vibe.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I have no affiliation with this company. I say it because it's it's funny because I love them so much and I plug it all the time. There's this thing called a hatch.

• 48:24Speaker 00

  I have a hatch.

• 48:25Speaker 01

  Oh, there we go.

• 48:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:26Speaker 01

  So let the hatch wake you up and leave the phone in another room.

• 48:29Speaker 00

  Ooh.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, no, no phone.

• 48:31Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  This, so if if we, if I was, I I have the fortune of coaching lots of people and if I was coaching you, I would literally do this dress rehearsal with you. So we'd both be in your bedroom. We'd we'd make sure that your hatch was right there. We'd we'd mirror what it's gonna look like when it wakes you up. We're gonna figure out exactly the steps you're gonna take to avoid looking at your phone and then finally look at your phone 10 minutes later.

• 48:53Speaker 00

  My fear and I I have this anxiety that my hatch isn't gonna go off.

• 48:58Speaker 01

  It will.

• 48:58Speaker 00

  I know, but like I I trust my phone to like go off and I think that's like what I I think.

• 49:04Speaker 01

  That's the problem. We trust our phones more than our friends. It's.

• 49:07Speaker 00

  I we do. We do.

• 49:09Speaker 02

  Welcome to the 50th Hunger Games.

• 49:11Speaker 03

  Witness the beginning of the revolution.

• 49:13Speaker 04

  Hey Mitch, you've been trying to take down these games from Star.

• 49:16Speaker 03

  Film for IMAX.

• 49:17Speaker 04

  Make them remember you.

• 49:20Speaker 03

  The Hunger Games: Sunrise on the Reaping, November 20th, rated P13.

• 49:27Speaker 00

  Thank you SeatGeek again for sponsoring tonight's episode. There are so many concerts and live shows this summer. I feel like summer is the time to go see a live show. There is nothing like rejoicing over your favorite artist and having them perform live with everybody else who also wants to hear them. It's seriously the best feeling in the entire world. And there are also so many tours that are coming up and just announced, Lord just announced her arena tour, which is going to be unbelievable. I am so excited for that. Tate is also on tour. She's on her Miss Possessive World Tour, which I am so excited to see. And also Jay Shetty, who is in tonight's episode, is on the On Purpose Live Tour, which is amazing. If you love what he has to say,

• 50:11Speaker 00

  go see him on tour. I personally just am, I love him. His live shows seem amazing and life changing. I am also on tour. You can see me live with Jake Shane. You can use my code therapist10 for 10% off your SeatGeek order. That is therapist10. And also, download the SeatGeek app, which is so easy to use. It literally, you put in your area and then it'll show you trending events in your area. So right now for me, it has Kendrick Lamar and SZA, New York Yankees, literally anything. And then it's just, you can browse by category, popular this weekend, sports, concerts, whatever you need, the SeatGeek app is there for you to use.

• 50:53Speaker 00

  If you click the link in the description, which will download the SeatGeek app for you, your code therapist10 will automatically be applied. That is therapist10 for 10% off your SeatGeek order. SeatGeek, I love you. Go see a live show. It is life changing. It really gets you in touch with your community and people around you. And it's just amazing. I mean, live music and live shows was like the number one thing I missed during COVID. So now that we have it back, I would say, I think, take advantage of it and go if you can. Thank you, SeatGeek, for sponsoring tonight's episode.

• 51:29Speaker 00

  What did you learn about like self-love and self-acceptance like through living in a monastery?

• 51:35Speaker 01

  Self-love to me is not possible until you visit all the places of yourself you don't like. So this idea of self-love is a great idea, but you can only truly love yourself if you've visited everything inside of yourself that you might hate or dislike. That's what it takes to have self-love.

• 52:00Speaker 00

  How do you visit those places?

• 52:01Speaker 01

  You visit those places by realizing that they were an experience. They weren't you. They were a moment. They weren't you. They were a conversation. They weren't you. These were all things that happened to you or actions that you took, but they don't define you as a human. So you visit them with grace. You visit them with compassion. You visit them with love and you heal from that experience. You go there. It's almost like going to the playground you were bullied in.

• 52:31Speaker 00

  Right.

• 52:31Speaker 01

  Right? And I've never done this, so I'm thinking about it now. But going to the playground you were bullied in, if that was something big, and I was bullied growing up. I was bullied for being overweight. I was bullied for the color of my skin. I was bullied for my name. And Going back to that place and taking it in and going, well, this was a place I was bullied. But hey, what did I learn from it? What did I take away from it? For me, that made me more compassionate. That made me more loving. And it made me wanna take care of myself. It made me wanna be nice to other people and kind to other people. Wait a minute, this was a great experience. So now I've gone to a part of myself that I'm scared to visit, but I've actually left there feeling lighter. And so I think if we, whether it's through therapy, whether it's through podcasts like these, whether it's through physically visiting,

• 53:15Speaker 01

  the idea of going back to places inside of yourself that you've been trained to dislike or hate. Like, maybe you were someone who was always told you were overweight or too short or too tall or whatever it was for you. Sit with that for a second and go, well, wait, who was the person saying that?

• 53:33Speaker 00

  Right.

• 53:33Speaker 01

  Why do I believe them? Why are they even significant to me? And what do I want to believe about myself? What is true about myself? When I visit the darkest, hardest parts of myself, I can leave there with self-love. So to me, it's less about sitting there and saying, I love myself. It's actually going to all the places that you might hate and finding love within them.

• 53:54Speaker 00

  I feel like I struggle a lot with like, like intimacy though. And like being intimate with someone. And I feel like maybe that's why I struggle so much with dating. Because like, I'm like, well, what's the point? Like, I don't know how I'm gonna be intimate with this person. It's like the first thought in my head and then I can't get past that. And then I like can't get into the date. And I'm like so embarrassed of like my own. Like, I hate going on like dinner dates. I hate eating in front of people. I hate like, like existing in front of someone. Like, I don't know how to be like sexual and romantic with someone.

• 54:32Speaker 01

  And where does that come from?

• 54:33Speaker 00

  I literally don't know. I legitimately don't know. I just, I think it's because. I like have experienced all of like my love and my love life like online.

• 54:47Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 54:48Speaker 00

  I never got to really like experience it in middle school and high school. So it's kind of like I'm learning now. As opposed to like learning in eighth grade. Cause I was able to kind of be like, well, there's no gay guys in my school. So just shut it off. And I don't have to address anything that I'm feeling. And then I got to college and then I was like, okay, well, I guess I'm like learning how to on like. A dating app or like online or like, I like, I don't know, you know, and like now I just. Like I went on a date last night and I was like. So uncomfortable and like how I was behaving like I felt so. Like unattractive, like I feel so like discombobulated with the world when I'm like trying to exist. Uh, like romantically with someone.

• 55:31Speaker 01

  Thank you for sharing that, by the way.

• 55:32Speaker 00

  Oh my God, of course.

• 55:33Speaker 01

  It's very, uh, no, it's that's, I can tell how real it is.

• 55:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:37Speaker 01

  And I appreciate how vulnerable you are and it's. When I'm listening to you, I'm thinking, so it doesn't sound like there was a previous event. That went in a way that you didn't want it to go, or there wasn't a. Interaction that kind of made you fearful of that. That that doesn't exist in your memory, really something you can call upon.

• 55:55Speaker 00

  I think maybe like. It maybe it's like the idea of. Being rejected on a dating app.

• 56:02Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 56:03Speaker 00

  Cause that was like the first place I ever um, like looked for love and like. Like when you're on like, for example, like a grinder of sorts, like if someone doesn't like you, like they can just. They'll block you.

• 56:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:13Speaker 00

  Or like they'll or swipe right or swipe left or like whatever. So it's like such a quick no. So. I I don't, I don't know. And maybe that's where that's from. It's like, oh, if they don't like me, like it's so quick, you know, it's like. I don't know how, I don't know. I've I'm making sense.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, this is good. I'm trying to, this is good. This is what it, what we need to do to to figure it out. And so where does the intimacy part connect with that? Because there's one thing in feeling. I'm not attractive. And is that the connection to the intimacy? Like if someone can reject me for not being attractive in five seconds? How could I be intimate with them? Because.

• 56:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that's it. And also like. Because I don't have like any practice in intimacy, cause I like, I rarely do it, like. I don't, I'm so uncomfortable with it.

• 56:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, and and I think you've just, I really appreciate where we got to with that because you've you've just answered the question, anything you do for the first time, you're gonna be bad at it.

• 57:07Speaker 00

  Right.

• 57:07Speaker 01

  Like everyone.

• 57:08Speaker 00

  Right.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  Like, that's just the truth of it. Anyone who says they were good at something the first time is probably lying, especially being intimate. And so, to me, when you're saying that, there's a, it's harder because you're saying, I'm older now, and people are expecting that people have had practice.

• 57:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, that's what it is too. It's like, I feel like such a loser because I'm like twenty five and like, I have been so inexperienced in these things.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, and and the truth is that, I think most people, if if we're honest, and I and I and I think we have to be, we have to get that out there. If we're honest, most people feel that way, you're just honest enough to say it. There's a lot of people who feel so scared of being emotionally intimate, physically intimate, they just don't say it. They don't, they're not as courageous as you to even, let alone say it to themselves, to say it out loud like you just have. And I actually think that there's a truth in that, that the right person will actually know how to connect with. And yes, there are some people who are gonna hear that, or know that, and think, oh, loser, whatever it is, they are.

• 58:16Speaker 01

  But those aren't the people for you. Those aren't the right people. Someone who recognizes that. And by the way, I'm thinking about a friend as I'm talking to you. One of my friends who, I think he came out when he was, I think he came out when he was probably around twenty eight, twenty nine, maybe even thirty. Like, it was, he came out late. He grew up in a tradition that would never have allowed it, grew up in a family that would have totally, you know, shunned it, and it took him a long time to come to terms with coming out, and it was hard for him, and he felt the same way that, almost like he was having his first love at thirty years old.

• 58:47Speaker 00

  Right.

• 58:48Speaker 01

  Because he'd never been able to fall in love.

• 58:50Speaker 00

  Right.

• 58:51Speaker 01

  And as a gay man, he'd never had that experience before, and for him, As I've watched him go through his journey and now he's happily married and found his partner and has a beautiful relationship, what I saw was him recognizing that there was gonna be someone who actually held that part of him gently and comforted it and maybe even felt the same way. And it became something they explored together, something that they allowed themselves to experiment with together. And I think it's keeping faith that when you're as honest and sincere and authentic as you are, that you're gonna allow that authenticity to be reciprocated through someone. You almost don't want someone who treats that badly.

• 59:32Speaker 01

  Like, I always say to people, like, you don't want someone who uses your wounds as a weapon. Like, that's not the right person. You don't want someone who uses your need for being held gently as something they throw in your face or treat you harshly. Like, you don't want that. So, in effect, it almost becomes the best radar of knowing who's right for you. And so I would rather use it as a strength to say, this trait of mine that I'm really nervous about is actually gonna help me find the right person, because the right person will know how to hold this part of me gently. And that way, I can cut out all the BS and all the trash that keeps coming my way, because they won't know how to hold this part of me.

• 1:00:13Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:00:13Speaker 01

  It's not something you have to get over. It's something that someone can say, I see you, Jake.

• 1:00:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  And I'm okay with it. You're not too much. Like, this is okay. It's normal. It's not, it's not some unheard of weird trait. So it's not something you have to get over. It's finding someone who's okay with you not having to get over it. If that makes sense.

• 1:00:30Speaker 00

  No, a hundred percent. I just wish I could get out of my own head. Because even like, if I am intimate, it's like, I feel like I have such bad ADHD and like stuff that it's so hard for me to like be in that moment of intimacy. And then like, I have anxiety after it, and then I have anxiety before it. And I just like, don't. I don't know. I think I'm like too scared, honestly.

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  And and you and that's what I'm saying. You just need someone who gets that.

• 1:00:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:53Speaker 01

  That's what it is. The right person will get that. I mean, you know, I just I just interviewed Benny and Selena.

• 1:01:00Speaker 00

  Right, I watched it. It was lovely.

• 1:01:01Speaker 01

  And it was just, you know, Benny knows how to hold Selena.

• 1:01:07Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:01:07Speaker 01

  And Selena knows how to hold Benny.

• 1:01:09Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  Like, that's what makes them a wonderful couple. That's why they're having a great relationship. Not because they're both perfect and figured everything out and got over all their pressures and stresses and healed all of their wounds. That's not why they're a good couple. They're a good couple because he knows how to say, I got you. I know what you're about to do. I know you're gonna go crazy after we, you know, whatever it may be in your example. I got you. You're okay. You're safe. And she knows how to do that for him. So the right person's able to go, I know you're gonna go crazy after we're intimate. I know I'm gonna get like three messages or maybe none at all. Like, I know what you're gonna do, Jake, and it's okay. It's not too much. I'm here. And so it's not that you've got to change and figure it out and fix it all. It's it's continuing to find the person who doesn't think you're too much or not enough.

• 1:01:56Speaker 00

  How do you find that, though? Do you just continue going on like dates?

• 1:01:59Speaker 01

  By using this radar. That's the most, if you're saying that this is like your core thing, right? Like, every one of us has like a core challenge, especially when it comes to love and relationships. We have this core block. And this is one of yours, right? It's not about you healing and perfecting and getting over it. I'm sure you've tried all those things.

• 1:02:21Speaker 00

  It's, yeah, it's just, I get so scared. I think it also, I've just thought about this. It really just all boils down to like, I get very scared of being made fun of. So I think that's also why I like to make people laugh and also why I'm very self-deprecating, because I like to beat people to the punch. And I, when I'm talk, when I'm flirting with someone like in public or like I'm showing like vulnerability or being intimate with someone, like, I'm so scared that someone's gonna make fun of me or like someone's looking at me. And like, I I know that my mom always told me like, no one's looking at you. No one's thinking about you as much as you're thinking about yourself. But um, I still, I can't get past it.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  But that is the best test.

• 1:02:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  The best test is showing your heart.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  And having someone act at their level of vibration.

• 1:03:08Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:03:08Speaker 01

  Right, like when you, when I messaged you a couple of months back and I DM'd you, I was just being honest and thankfully you reciprocated and then I was like, oh, cool. I think me and Jay could be friends. Like there was like an alignment. Whereas I could have DM'd you and you couldn't have responded. I could have DM'd you and you couldn't have seen it. I could have DM'd you and you could have responded and it could have been negative. Right. It could have been all those things. But it wasn't, but even if it was, it would have just shown me that we weren't an energy match. So I'd rather share my energy with the world, which is vulnerable, honest, kind, loving, and be okay with the fact that someone doesn't see it. Cause then I see where they're at. This actually happened to me in work recently. Um, so I've never been love bombed in love because I didn't think love bombing existed when I was dating.

• 1:03:53Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:03:53Speaker 01

  But, uh, I've been with my wife for 12 years and married for nine years. And a couple of months ago, I got love bombed in work. So I met, so I met someone, um, in a, in a work environment. And they're not a team member or an employee. They're, they're another person doing amazing work. And after meeting me, they sent me this really long message saying, Jay, I love you. I love meeting you. We're so aligned. We're cut from the same cloth. We're like meant to do stuff together. I'd love for you to be involved in this project. I think it'd be perfect. It'd be amazing. Like, like totally like fully in love with me. And I responded with the same energy. I was like, I'm so grateful. Like, thank you so much.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  Like this means the world to me. I felt the same way. I would love to know about this project. They've replied back going, yes, we're gonna figure it out. It's, it's really long, like a really long text exchange. And that's the kind of person I am where I'm like, even when I walked in today and I was telling you, I was like, you know, I usually turn up to interviews alone. This is the first interview that my entire team wanted to come to because they wanted to see you. And, and I didn't say that to flatter you and I didn't say, I said it because it was true and, and they can vouch for that. I said it because it was true because, because I, that's how I like to live. Now you were really sweet back. If you were like, um, oh, cool and walked off, I would just know, I'm like, okay, cool. This isn't someone that likes that type of energy and that's okay.

• 1:05:19Speaker 00

  Oh, no. I love that energy.

• 1:05:22Speaker 01

  So anyway, I, three days later, I check in with this person. I go, hey, you told me this really cool project I could be a part of. Like, let me know. I'm ready. Like, let me know. And I'm being super enthusiastic now. They messaged back a couple of like hours later and were like, "Yeah, we're not so sure right now. We're just figuring it out, but I really still want you involved and I'll let you know." I was like, "Cool, no worries. Let me know when." Seven days later, I check in again. I'm like, "Hey, just wanted to make sure I don't miss the email because it's really important to me." "I want you to know it's a priority for us. I took what you said seriously." They messaged back three days later going, "Yeah, not sure. Still got to talk to these people," whatever. They don't tell me it's a no. I find out from other sources.

• 1:06:00Speaker 00

  That's so LA.

• 1:06:01Speaker 01

  That they, they think I'm coming on too strong.

• 1:06:05Speaker 00

  But they came on to you very strong.

• 1:06:07Speaker 01

  Like, I literally screenshotted the messages and sent it to the other person. I was like, "I'm not crazy." And I was like, "I wear my heart on my sleeve always. It's who I am."

• 1:06:15Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:06:16Speaker 01

  And I love wearing my heart on my sleeve because if we were in business together, I'd be that enthusiastic. So if they don't want to deal with my enthusiasm right now, they wouldn't have been happy in business anyway.

• 1:06:28Speaker 00

  Ah, okay.

• 1:06:28Speaker 01

  And so to me, it becomes the best way of figuring out really quickly, "Are me and this person going to connect or are we not?" And I'm okay with the fact that it didn't work out because I'd rather only work with people who energetically match me. So to me, it's your greatest superpower. Your greatest strength is your vulnerability. Your greatest superpower is your ability to have this struggle that you have. And the goal is to allow yourself to be yourself in a moment and people are going to reject it.

• 1:06:56Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:06:56Speaker 01

  People may think that it was corny what you said, but guess what? They just weren't your match. And not everyone is going to be, and that's okay.

• 1:07:03Speaker 00

  Wow, I really resonated with that.

• 1:07:06Speaker 01

  I hope so because I want you to realize that what you think is your weakness in dating is your greatest superpower. That's all I want to convince you of.

• 1:07:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:14Speaker 01

  I don't want to convince you it's something you have to heal or fix or work on. It is your greatest superpower because the right person will come and hold it.

• 1:07:20Speaker 00

  Okay, I really think I needed to hear that.

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  I'm glad.

• 1:07:24Speaker 00

  Because I do, I feel like it's, I, why would I want to be with someone who I have to like convince to enjoy my company?

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  Why would you want to be with someone where you have to hide that fear? Which isn't a weakness, which isn't a loser, which isn't a bad quality. It's just something you're developing and working on. Why would you want to have to hide that from them?

• 1:07:47Speaker 00

  I think that's what I'm used to though, cause like, I always like, always wanted to be like popular. Like when I was a kid, it's all I cared about was being popular and liked. And I would like force myself into crews and areas that like necessarily like weren't not always for me. And I feel like I am approaching dating with like the same mindset. And I feel like maybe that's also like my pitfall. It's like, I need to just, and it's also like, I hate going on dates and like, I'm not working.

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, all of us want to be liked, so that's not, that's not just you. And you know, I, I think about it as like, when I, I gave a speech when I was seven or eight years old at school. And my whole class laughed at me. And my teacher put her arm around me and walked me off stage, which was even more embarrassing.

• 1:08:38Speaker 00

  A hundred percent.

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  Right? And now my friends were laughing even more.

• 1:08:41Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:08:42Speaker 01

  And I say that because I really did care what they thought. And I was worried by it and I was really upset and scarred by that. But now I go on stages and thankfully there's thousands of people that appreciate what I have to say. By the way, there are thousands of people who don't care about what I have to say too. And I've just started to realize that that's just the game of odds in the world. Like there is no one who is liked by everyone, no one. Even the person you think is adored by everyone. I remember I was working with a client once and they said to me, they go, gee, I want to be there. This person I was talking to is already in the top one, top zero, zero, zero point one percent of success. And they were telling me they want the other person's fame, someone else who's zero, zero, zero point one percent. And I was like, why?

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  And they were like, because everyone likes them. And I was like, are you kidding me? I was like, I showed them like Reddit threads and chats. I was like, there is no way this person is fully loved. But in your head, you've made it feel that way.

• 1:09:39Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:09:40Speaker 01

  So all of us who believe that there is the one popular kid in school, that there is the person online that everyone adores and loves, they don't exist. And it doesn't exist for me or you either. And that's okay. Right? Because especially in love, you're trying to find someone who's happy to hold all of your quirks and all of your little, you know, whatever it may be. Like, I think about my wife and how much she like tolerates of me or accepts of me or appreciates and allows me to be. And I'm like, real love is being allowed to be all of yourself. But real love is when someone lets you be all of yourself. Like, when someone says to me like, Jay, I really love that I can have a good time with you. I love that you love football.

• 1:10:24Speaker 01

  I love that you love wisdom. And I love that you're really strategic and a business person. When I'm seen for all of myself, that's when I'm most loved.

• 1:10:32Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  But if someone just says to me, Jay, I love you because you have lots of wisdom to share. That's just like 10% of who I am. I'm so many more things. So I think it's giving yourself permission to be all of it. And then people will give you permission to be all of yourself.

• 1:10:46Speaker 00

  Okay, can I ask you about a date I went on last night?

• 1:10:50Speaker 01

  Please, I love it.

• 1:10:52Speaker 00

  Because you were talking about like how my vulnerability is my strength.

• 1:10:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:57Speaker 00

  Okay, so I went on this date last night. Okay, can I just like start from the beginning?

• 1:11:00Speaker 01

  Please.

• 1:11:00Speaker 00

  Because I like need your advice on this.

• 1:11:02Speaker 01

  I'm really excited.

• 1:11:02Speaker 00

  So I thought this guy was cute. Like, I think we matched on a dating app like a while ago. And then he, oh my God, he's literally gonna know exactly who he is. It's so embarrassing.

• 1:11:13Speaker 01

  All right, let's mix it up.

• 1:11:14Speaker 00

  I honestly like, but I have to tell you. Like, then he became friends with Julia and Peyton, who are my two best friends. And I was like, oh my God, like, he's honestly kind of cute, like da da da. And then at Coachella, we saw each other and we were flirting like the whole night. And And I, I was like, my, I realized like as I became more myself and I wasn't like having this wall up, like he was more into it. And then we went on a date last night, but then he never texted me today or last night. And I really want to text him, so you hate me, but no one's letting me text him. But like, that's me.

• 1:11:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. Do you, do you, is that you or is that your anxiety?

• 1:11:57Speaker 00

  This is my anxiety. I think he hates me, but he also Julian Payton texted him like, how was the date last night? I know that's like, I don't know if this is your field, but like, I just need your take on it. I'm so sorry.

• 1:12:06Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 1:12:06Speaker 00

  And like Julian Payton texted him last.

• 1:12:09Speaker 01

  Wait, why did they text him?

• 1:12:10Speaker 00

  Because they're friends with him and I was like, can you text him like, get the vibe?

• 1:12:12Speaker 01

  Okay, okay, yeah, that's fair.

• 1:12:13Speaker 00

  And they texted him and he, they were like, are you gonna take Jake out again? He said, maybe so. What does that mean? So I'm like, well, I don't know what that means. And now I'm like, now I think he double hates me. And it's like, should I not text him?

• 1:12:26Speaker 01

  I would text him.

• 1:12:27Speaker 00

  And say what?

• 1:12:27Speaker 01

  I wouldn't say, so now you hate me.

• 1:12:29Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:12:30Speaker 01

  This is someone you want to go on another date with.

• 1:12:32Speaker 00

  So badly.

• 1:12:33Speaker 01

  Okay, but it sounds like he doesn't want to go on another date.

• 1:12:36Speaker 00

  Fuck. He doesn't, right? Like, he doesn't.

• 1:12:39Speaker 01

  He doesn't. He doesn't want to go on another date.

• 1:12:42Speaker 00

  But it's like, I need that clarity. But it's like, we went on one date. What am I gonna be like, do you hate me? Like, do you not want to go on another date with me? Am I supposed to eat it?

• 1:12:48Speaker 01

  So you have two options. The first is, well, you have a few options, but one of them is, you could say, hey, you know, yeah, are we gonna go on a second date? Or whatever it may be, right? Which I don't think you should say.

• 1:13:01Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:13:01Speaker 01

  Um, I don't think you should say, do you hate me?

• 1:13:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, don't.

• 1:13:05Speaker 01

  Because that may be too intense. What's the in-between version for you?

• 1:13:11Speaker 00

  Did you have fun last night?

• 1:13:16Speaker 01

  So what scares you about sending that message?

• 1:13:19Speaker 00

  Cause he's just gonna, of course, he's just gonna respond and be like, yeah, so much fun.

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then that's it again.

• 1:13:23Speaker 00

  Like, I just, oh, it's like, if they wanted to, they will, huh?

• 1:13:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:26Speaker 00

  Damn it.

• 1:13:27Speaker 01

  I think it's the clarity. It's, it's, it's, it's having that clarity. Like, if you want someone who messages you back after a date, you should have that person.

• 1:13:36Speaker 00

  And that's not gonna be him.

• 1:13:37Speaker 01

  And that's not gonna be him. So he's not the right person. Now, if he's been busy, he's got crazy stuff going on in his life, we don't need to make up those excuses for us. I mean, sorry, we don't need to make up those excuses for him in our head. We just need to let it be.

• 1:13:51Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:13:51Speaker 01

  It is what it is. Now our head goes, maybe this, maybe that, maybe, you know, let him say that. If he comes back in a week and says, hey, Jake, you know what? My dog was really unwell and I had to take the dog to the vet and then I had the crazy work done. I'd love to see you again. That's awesome.

• 1:14:07Speaker 00

  Yes, I have a dog.

• 1:14:08Speaker 01

  Right, okay. A cat? No cat either? Okay.

• 1:14:12Speaker 00

  Honestly, now I'm like, did I even ask him if he had a pet? I'm the worst. I'm the worst. I'm the worst. What do I do?

• 1:14:22Speaker 01

  If they could text you and they didn't, move on.

• 1:14:26Speaker 00

  Uh huh. But now I'm realizing, I even asked him if he had a pet.

• 1:14:30Speaker 01

  You could message him that. Hey, do you have a dog? Jay said you might have a dog. He'd be like, who's Jay?

• 1:14:37Speaker 00

  No, no, no, totally, totally, totally, totally, totally, totally, totally, totally.

• 1:14:40Speaker 01

  It's, it's, do you know what it is? It's we make, we make the simple things harder because we make it about, maybe there's a perfect algorithm to how to text this person at a particular cadence two days from now, and then they might like me again. And so we're like mathematically trying to make someone fall in love with us. When the reality is, this is just it. And so rather than playing the game and figuring it out and putting the block, blocks and the boxes exactly where they need to line up, you just let it be. So if you feel like texting him and saying, hey, I had a great time. Are we gonna go on another date? And you want the clarity, there is nothing wrong with that because that's who you are. That's how you show up.

• 1:15:21Speaker 01

  And you choose to show up in that way. It's not desperate. It's not lose you. It's clarity, right? If you were trying to get a job and you messaged someone and you really liked the job and the next two days you messaged them saying, hey, did I get a job? Just wanted to check in. Wanted to share a bunch of stuff. It wouldn't be seen as weird. It would be seen as the right thing to do. And even whether you got the job or not, you know in your mind and heart, you put yourself out there. You got it. And it wasn't the end of the world. And if you're willing to just accept it where it's at and you already feel like you have enough information from his friends that it's kind of a ah, whatever, then move on. But he may be waiting for your message.

• 1:15:54Speaker 00

  Oh, you think?

• 1:15:55Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:15:59Speaker 00

  Fuck, I really want him to text me, Jay. I don't know why I'm so obsessed.

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  Of course you're obsessed. We're all obsessed with people who don't message us back.

• 1:16:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:16:09Speaker 01

  That's the person we're obsessed with.

• 1:16:12Speaker 00

  I know.

• 1:16:12Speaker 01

  We say we want presence, but we love the person who's absent. Right? We say we want affection, but we're chasing the person who doesn't give us attention.

• 1:16:22Speaker 00

  Why?

• 1:16:22Speaker 01

  Like, we say we want someone who'll validate us, but we chase the person who always makes fun of us.

• 1:16:29Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:16:30Speaker 01

  Because earning love is what we think we have to do.

• 1:16:34Speaker 00

  I'm sick.

• 1:16:35Speaker 01

  We think that love needs to be earned, that it needs to be achieved. We don't believe it's something we deserve as we are. We've been trained to believe that we have to earn, chase, pursue, and achieve love.

• 1:16:49Speaker 01

  But you deserve love, just as you are, without having to achieve or receive or chase it.

• 1:16:55Speaker 00

  How do I learn that?

• 1:16:57Speaker 01

  You learn that by sitting in these moments where you're obsessing over someone who isn't messaging you and recognizing that I deserve someone who does message me back. There's nothing wrong with that. By the way, that's not too much to ask. If I go out for dinner with a friend, I'd love a message too. Like, that's not even romantic. Like, let's just be real. Let's level the playing field here, right? Because I don't, I mean, my, my wife doesn't message me back until I call her seven times, call her assistant, and message her 29. So, you know, I'm still dealing with that after all these years.

• 1:17:28Speaker 00

  How did you meet your wife?

• 1:17:30Speaker 01

  That, that's a long story, but the, the quick one is, I met her before I make, became a monk at the temple in London.

• 1:17:37Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 1:17:38Speaker 01

  That's the quick version. But in my first episode of my podcast, we tell.

• 1:17:40Speaker 00

  Right. She was your first guest, right?

• 1:17:42Speaker 01

  She was my first guest. We tell the full story. But going back to your point, if I went out for dinner with my friend and I didn't get a message the next morning about how much they enjoyed dinner, I'm like, I, I want that too. Like, I want friends who are like that. That's something I really enjoy about friendship, where there's mutual validation, there's, there's this reciprocation, there's words of affirmation. That's really important to me. My team knows that. We do it with each other all the time. Like, I love to tell people when they're doing a good job. I also love to be told when I did a good job. I enjoy that. I appreciate that. That's not too much to ask for. So you learn it by recognizing that's not too much to ask for. We went out on a date, if it was good and they enjoyed it, I want to hear from them. It's not too much to ask for. And so if I'm not getting it, it's okay. I'm gonna find someone who does give it to me.

• 1:18:26Speaker 00

  Fuck, yeah. Yeah. Cheers to that.

• 1:18:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, cheers to that.

• 1:18:33Speaker 00

  It's bad luck if you don't.

• 1:18:34Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Even with the mic, cheers.

• 1:18:36Speaker 00

  Always, any cheers.

• 1:18:37Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:18:38Speaker 00

  Okay, do you wanna get into the tell me what's wrongs?

• 1:18:40Speaker 01

  Let's do it.

• 1:18:41Speaker 00

  Do you know about the tell me what's wrongs?

• 1:18:42Speaker 01

  No, you're gonna have to explain it to me.

• 1:18:43Speaker 00

  Okay, so the tell me what's wrongs are when the pussies write in and they tell us what's wrong.

• 1:18:46Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, yes, yes.

• 1:18:47Speaker 00

  And we give them advice, and I think you're the perfect person for it. Do you wanna take a bathroom break before we get into this?

• 1:18:52Speaker 01

  No, I'm so good.

• 1:18:53Speaker 00

  I do.

• 1:18:54Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:18:56Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 1:18:59Speaker 00

  Okay, wait, I wanna tell you what a crash out is now. So I ju-

• 1:19:02Speaker 01

  I assumed it was that. I assumed there were drugs and alcohol involved, so.

• 1:19:05Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:19:06Speaker 01

  But, yeah.

• 1:19:07Speaker 00

  Okay, so I'm realizing after my PP break that you don't know what a crash out is.

• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  I assumed it was what it is, but I thought there might be drugs or alcohol.

• 1:19:16Speaker 00

  No, a crash out is like...

• 1:19:20Speaker 00

  It's like, it's just like, one bad thing. It's like a, it's like a pileup. It's like a car pileup. It's like one bad thing happens and you start thinking about like another bad thing, and another bad thing, and another bad thing, and then you just crash the front out.

• 1:19:33Speaker 01

  Different bad things or a bad thing about that bad thing?

• 1:19:35Speaker 00

  No, I usually hyperfixate on one thing.

• 1:19:37Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 1:19:37Speaker 00

  So, for example, like, when that guy didn't text me back, I th- I was thinking about our date, and then I was thinking about our Saturday night, and then I was thinking about the first time we matched, and then I was thinking about what I said on the date, and like, that's a crash out.

• 1:19:51Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 1:19:52Speaker 00

  Also-

• 1:19:52Speaker 01

  Overthinking.

• 1:19:53Speaker 00

  I've been meaning to ask you, cuz this was just before we get into the tell me what's wrongs. What do you think, cuz everyone says I'm a really bad listener. Where do you thi- do you, number one, do you think that?

• 1:20:05Speaker 01

  Oh, you're actually asking me the question?

• 1:20:06Speaker 00

  Yeah. Shut up, Louise!

• 1:20:12Speaker 01

  How long have I been with my wife?

• 1:20:15Speaker 00

  Twelve years.

• 1:20:16Speaker 01

  There you go, not a bad listener.

• 1:20:17Speaker 00

  And you've been married for nine?

• 1:20:19Speaker 01

  Not a bad listener. Not a bad listener. Showing off. No, like, I think you'd be a bad listener. I don't think you're a bad listener. If you were a bad listener, your jump around wouldn't make sense, whereas the jump around makes a lot of sense. So jumping around is not an issue in a conversation. It actually makes a conversation more interesting.

• 1:20:37Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:20:37Speaker 01

  When you can get lost on a tangent and find your way back, that's a good conversation.

• 1:20:40Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:20:40Speaker 01

  Boring conversations are- Let's follow this rhythm, right?

• 1:20:44Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:20:44Speaker 01

  No, I don't think you're a bad listener. In this forum.

• 1:20:47Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:20:47Speaker 01

  I can't, I can't vouch for in every area of life.

• 1:20:51Speaker 00

  But like.

• 1:20:51Speaker 01

  I've never dated you, I'm not part of your team, like, there's lots of different ways.

• 1:20:55Speaker 00

  When I'm on a date, I think I'm a bad listener. Like, I find myself sometimes when I'm on dates, like, not caring.

• 1:21:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:21:01Speaker 00

  Is that, like, actual me not caring, or is that, like?

• 1:21:04Speaker 01

  It goes back to what we were talking about earlier. So here's, here's the thing. People will always be boring if we're not interested. And humans are finding it harder and harder to be interested.

• 1:21:16Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:21:16Speaker 01

  In humans, because our phones are more entertaining than humans.

• 1:21:19Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:21:20Speaker 01

  So your phone can entertain you, or TikTok feed can entertain you so much more than anyone. Right? You could be sitting with the funniest person on planet Earth, and TikTok's funnier.

• 1:21:29Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:21:30Speaker 01

  So that's scary, to think about it that way. If you think about it, you could be sitting with the smartest person on Earth, and ChatGPT is smarter than it. Smarter than that person.

• 1:21:37Speaker 00

  It's like when I go to the bathroom on a date, I'm never peeing, I'm checking my phone.

• 1:21:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, because it's so entertaining.

• 1:21:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:21:43Speaker 01

  And so I think the problem is that we've lost our ability to be interested in humans. And therefore, they can't be interesting and end up being boring, because we don't know how to do that anymore. And because our minds are programmed to make everything the most entertaining, the smartest thing you've ever heard, the most silly, hilarious, funny, like, everything is so extreme that the person in front of you doesn't stand a chance.

• 1:22:08Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:22:08Speaker 01

  And so we've actually, yeah, right? So we don't want to put that pressure on people, because by the way, if they put that back on us, it wouldn't work either. One of my friends who's really into AI was telling me this. So he was saying, if you take someone who's below average intelligence, or in his words, someone who you'd consider a moron, that person, Einstein, was only two and a half times smarter than a moron. Two and a half times. Chat G P T or A I is already ten times smarter than Einstein.

• 1:22:39Speaker 00

  Really?

• 1:22:39Speaker 01

  If not more and accelerating. So when you think about that, you're like, well, wait a minute then if I was having dinner with Einstein, would I find him boring?

• 1:22:47Speaker 00

  I'm sick.

• 1:22:47Speaker 01

  Right? Like that's right. Like so, you know, when A I starts making A I girlfriends and boyfriends, is anyone gonna be attractive enough?

• 1:22:55Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:22:56Speaker 01

  Like, imagine if you had an A I boyfriend or girlfriend, like, and we're not far away from this. Just think about it for a second. You have an A I boyfriend or girlfriend that has a visual robotic version that is robotic underneath, but real skin on the outside, right? Or whatever prosthetic skin on the outside that looks real. Are we ever gonna want anything else when that person says yes to everything you want? The the truth is, we we will get bored of that too.

• 1:23:21Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:23:21Speaker 01

  Because it won't be it won't be right. They'll know your favorite food. You won't. They will. There'll be no discovery. They'll say the perfect thing every time. Like, we'll get exhausted of that. But the problem is, right now, we haven't got exhausted of that. We think that's perfection. So we're all gonna fall in love with A I.

• 1:23:36Speaker 00

  Okay, we are gonna fall.

• 1:23:37Speaker 01

  We are. People are gonna fall in love with A I.

• 1:23:41Speaker 00

  Ideally.

• 1:23:41Speaker 01

  When it gets to that point.

• 1:23:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, ideally, I get a real boyfriend before that.

• 1:23:45Speaker 01

  Ideally.

• 1:23:45Speaker 00

  Because like, I would be the type to fall for that.

• 1:23:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, a lot of people will fall for it.

• 1:23:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:23:49Speaker 01

  A lot of people will fall for it. So what I'm saying is, when you compare what's happening technologically to any human on the planet.

• 1:23:55Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:23:56Speaker 01

  If you let the algorithm design your brain, you will always be hooked to it. And a human will never be an algorithm, because a human doesn't have to give you a dopamine hit every three scrolls. Conversation can be like winding, meandering, especially on a date, right? We're on a podcast. We both podcast a lot. It's fun. We're going back and forth, but like, when you're kind of dating someone at the beginning, it's never gonna be. It's hard to get a a good like um ping pong game going. Like, it's gonna take a second to get there. We've got to allow for that. So we've got to treat humans differently to technology.

• 1:24:30Speaker 00

  Okay, so I think what I'm learning.

• 1:24:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:33Speaker 00

  Is that maybe I need less time on my phone?

• 1:24:36Speaker 01

  I mean, we've been talking about that, yeah.

• 1:24:39Speaker 01

  We already talked about that, maybe you're not listening.

• 1:24:41Speaker 00

  No, I was, but I think that's like really what I'm taking.

• 1:24:43Speaker 01

  We're like a full blown, no, I'm joking.

• 1:24:45Speaker 00

  That's what I'm really taking from this.

• 1:24:47Speaker 01

  Well, what I'm saying is that, look, that's true for all of us. What I'm saying is that the pace of our phones is transforming our entire brain. It's changing the pace at which we speak, read, hear, listen, interpret, yes, no, entertain, bored, like everything. So now you apply the algorithm to people as they're sitting in front of you. And they'll never compete. So, and actually, what's most beautiful about humans is humans are profoundly more fascinating than technology. If you get to hear their story, if you get to dive into their past, if you actually get to know them, it's so much more entertaining, but we don't know how to get beyond the lack of instant dopamine.

• 1:25:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:25:31Speaker 01

  To get to oxytocin, which is the connection hormone.

• 1:25:34Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:25:35Speaker 01

  And so that takes longer to build, but we're so addicted to dopamine. And humans can't give us that. Humans can give us oxytocin that you get from like a long hug or a beautiful moment where someone says something that really resonates with your heart that would make up for all that boredom, right? Does that make sense? Like sometimes you can actually scroll for an hour and you're entertained, but then when you get off, you're exhausted.

• 1:25:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:25:59Speaker 01

  Right? Whereas you could spend an hour with a human and you may not be entertained, but you'll have a moment with them that you will cherish forever.

• 1:26:06Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:26:06Speaker 01

  That's what you're looking for, but it's a retraining and rewiring of our brain.

• 1:26:10Speaker 00

  And it's like, it requires work.

• 1:26:12Speaker 01

  It requires so much work and it's so hard. And we're all affected by, me included.

• 1:26:16Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:26:17Speaker 01

  I struggle with this too. Going back to a conversation we had.

• 1:26:20Speaker 00

  I remember.

• 1:26:23Speaker 00

  Okay, are you ready for the time?

• 1:26:24Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, let's do it. I'm really excited about this.

• 1:26:26Speaker 00

  My best friend is beginning to drift away from me and hang out with other people at college. It feels like shit and I'm wondering if I'm the problem or something. What should I do?

• 1:26:34Speaker 01

  You're not the problem. People outgrow friends in transitions. People move on. People want to meet new people. That doesn't mean you have a problem. It doesn't mean you're weak. It just means it's your chance to go and meet new people too. And so rather than making it a reflection of your self-worth or self-esteem, go and make it as an opportunity to go and find new people to connect with and stay connected to this person. They haven't done anything wrong. They haven't told you they don't care about you. They haven't told you you're not a priority. So make time when it's available. Still create plans with them, but see it as an opportunity to get to know new people. I mean, you're, it seems like they just started college or they're new to that experience. That's a perfect time to do that. And by the way, this is gonna happen multiple times in life.

• 1:27:18Speaker 01

  You're gonna graduate from college and your friends are gonna make friends with new people. You're gonna start a new job and your colleagues are gonna make friends with new people. This is a really good thing to get used to and start realizing it's not personal.

• 1:27:30Speaker 00

  Right. And I also feel like that's such a normal thing to happen in college.

• 1:27:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:27:35Speaker 00

  Because college is such, like, was it like super formative for you as well? It's like such formative years and like you're figuring yourself out and like, I don't know, like, I feel like that's such a, if you like, look at it as like a blessing, like you can like rewire how you experience it.

• 1:27:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think most people look back and go, I wish I experimented more. I wish I met different people. I wish I went to different classes, right? You, you look at it totally different when you've left and when you're there, you're kind of like, these are my friends. This is who I hang out with. These, you know, and so, I think most of us, if we look back on it, would wanna break that pattern. And so the fact that this smart person's asking this question now, break that pattern now.

• 1:28:12Speaker 00

  Right. You don't think they should message them and be like, hey, why are you drifting?

• 1:28:16Speaker 01

  I think that's what, I mean, you could, if, if that's, if that's who you are and that's what you really wanna do. I think it's a great conversation to have. I love a hard conversation. And I used to hate tough conversations.

• 1:28:26Speaker 00

  I hate them.

• 1:28:27Speaker 01

  But I've started to realize it's a superpower to get really good at them. And yeah, if you're confident enough to say, hey, are we drifting? What's going on? And even start putting words, because I think what happens is when you say, are we drifting? You're basically already pushing that person away. And I think it'd be great to just say to them, like, hey, how's it going? Like, you know, what are you up to this weekend? How are you spending your time? Like, what are you excited about right now? Like, what, what, what kind of, you know, what, what have you been up to? What's something new you've discovered? Get to know what they're into, get to know where they're going. And you may, you may be like, I don't want to know about any of that stuff.

• 1:29:00Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:29:01Speaker 01

  So college was where I got really into meditation, mindfulness, wisdom. I had so many friends that either were friends were like, Jay, we love talking about football with you. When I say football, I mean soccer.

• 1:29:11Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:29:11Speaker 01

  They're like, Jay, we love talking about soccer, love hanging out with you, but we do not want to go to a meditation class with you.

• 1:29:17Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:29:17Speaker 01

  Right? And I was like, that's my relationship with them.

• 1:29:19Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:29:20Speaker 01

  And then I started drawing boundaries. I was like, hey, guys, I've clubbed a lot. In, in England, you start drinking early and clubbing early. Like, I was drinking from when I was like thirteen years old.

• 1:29:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:29:28Speaker 01

  And, and so for me, I started to be like, I don't really want to go to clubs. I don't want to drink alcohol anymore. Like, I was making those boundaries. And then I had friends that was like, well, Jay, we want to make sure we have dinner before we all go out. So we'll make. So I started to find that there are different ways of hanging out with people.

• 1:29:43Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:29:43Speaker 01

  It's not like I'm like, you're my friend and we've got to go out to the club together. We've got to get drunk together and we're going to go watch football together. And it's like, doesn't make sense. So I think college is a great time to start figuring out, these are my pre-party friends, these are my post-party, like, you know what I mean?

• 1:29:57Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 1:29:57Speaker 01

  Sorry, it's not like everyone has to do everything with you.

• 1:29:59Speaker 00

  A hundred percent.

• 1:30:00Speaker 01

  And I think that's where the struggle is here, where it's like, oh, my God, I need this friend to do everything with me? Well, no, they may be the friend I only go out to party with, because that's what we still have in common. They're the friend I go to Coachella with every year. That's what we have in common, right?

• 1:30:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:30:14Speaker 01

  And that's okay.

• 1:30:16Speaker 00

  Um, you mentioned mindfulness. What is, I feel like I've heard a million and one definitions of mindfulness. Like, what is mindfulness to you?

• 1:30:25Speaker 01

  Mindfulness is the ability to focus and give attention to whatever you'd like to focus and give attention to. That is when you're being mindful. So if I say, I want to be present with Jake and be really conscious in this conversation. And I'm able to do that, that's mindfulness.

• 1:30:44Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:30:45Speaker 01

  Because I've chosen my target and I'm able to hit it. It's almost like saying, I want to hit the bullseye and I can shoot an arrow that goes straight there or throw a dart that hits there. That's mindfulness.

• 1:30:54Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:30:55Speaker 01

  Does that make sense?

• 1:30:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, and how do you, how do you actively practice that?

• 1:30:58Speaker 01

  I do it through five, four, three, two, one.

• 1:31:00Speaker 00

  Got it.

• 1:31:00Speaker 01

  We're going back to the start of the conversation.

• 1:31:02Speaker 00

  No, no, no.

• 1:31:02Speaker 01

  No, no, I'm messing around, Jake. I'm messing around with you. I'm messing around with you. It's, uh, that, that technique definitely helps. I think it's also about being really intentional and, and being mindful. So what does that mean? It means before I walk in to a room, a meeting, a date, what energy am I walking in with? Am I really clear about it? Do I know why I'm there? Do I know what I'm looking forward to? Most of us just end up somewhere. You end up on a date, you end up at dinner, you end up at a party.

• 1:31:36Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:31:36Speaker 01

  When you end up, you walk in with all your anxieties. But actually, when you could actually program and code your mind to say, I'm going there with this energy for this reason, now I'm being mindful. I feel like this when, you know, there's so many events in LA, whether it's Grammys, Oscars, whatever it is. And I feel like everyone I talk to gets so anxious at these events. Like whatever awards show it is, everyone's so anxious. Everyone's like, oh my God, I'm really socially anxious. Oh my God, that person's there. Like, oh my God, I just saw this celebrity, like. And, and everyone's feeling that way, no matter how, you know, famous and successful you are or how, if you're up and coming. And what's really interesting is because we don't get a chance to clarify why we're there. Like, we don't know what reason we're there or we haven't been conscious of it. So as soon as you're conscious of that, you can be really mindful.

• 1:32:18Speaker 01

  Like, I always say to myself, I'm like, all I'm looking for is one person to have a really meaningful conversation with. That's why I'm there. Like, that's my thing. And so I could be anywhere in the world and as long as I have one meaningful conversation, it was a successful, uh, it was a success for me.

• 1:32:35Speaker 00

  I feel like my thing would be like, as long as I made like one person there laugh. I'd feel good.

• 1:32:39Speaker 01

  That's good. I like that.

• 1:32:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:32:40Speaker 01

  And then that's what you're aiming for.

• 1:32:41Speaker 00

  I feel purposeful.

• 1:32:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's simple, right? It's really easy. It's just one person. It's not like, oh my God, I gotta make every person I meet laugh out loud. Like, that may not be possible.

• 1:32:49Speaker 00

  Okay, amazing. I've been post breakup for two months now and I'm pretty positive he was the love of my life, but I completely lost myself and I need to figure out how to better myself from it and move TF on the fuck.

• 1:33:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:33:02Speaker 00

  Help me.

• 1:33:04Speaker 01

  Please don't make someone fall in love with you if you don't have the ability to love them back. Like, don't make someone fall hard for you if you're not willing to catch them. Like, don't make someone feel like you're gonna be the person who's gonna solve all their problems if you're not even gonna be around to be patient while they try and solve them. And so, I think a lot of people end up in this position for two reasons. The first is, we love to make people fall in love with us because it makes us feel good about ourselves. Yeah. And a lot of people do that today and then disappear after two months. And the other reason we do it is because we fall in love too fast.

• 1:33:45Speaker 01

  So my first piece of advice, before we even get to the breakup piece, is don't fall in love too fast. Stop trying to plan a future with someone when you don't even know what they did last night. Right? Like, stop trying to plan like years ahead with someone when you don't even know what they've been doing for the last three months. And we get so ahead of ourselves that we never even stop to look behind and see if they're coming along with us. And so, we need to disconnect from this idea of, I wanna find love in one or two months. Right? So that's, that's important. Guilty. Now, I don't know how long this person's been together. I don't know how long they've been with them. I know they've been broken up for two months. Let's say it was a long-term relationship and let's say they didn't fall in love too fast. And let's say the other person didn't make them fall in love with them. Breakups are hard.

• 1:34:27Speaker 01

  The studies show that breakups are like detoxing from drugs, like detoxing from cocaine. Because you're so addicted to that feeling of love that your body and mind are literally going through a detox. That's what it actually feels like. So those feelings are valid, those feelings are real, and those feelings are not over, like, estimated. They're, they're real. They, they, they belong. So what do you do? You're grieving a potential person that you thought you'd spend the rest of your life with. You're grieving the person that you thought you were with that person. And you're grieving the plans you had for the future. There's a lot of grieving going on in this process. What do you do?

• 1:35:12Speaker 01

  The first thing I'd say to that person is I would actually remind yourself of all the signs that you missed when you were together, that this was the wrong person. There were lots of signs. You just ignored them because the sex was great. Or you ignored them because they said the right thing in the evening. You ignored them because you didn't want to be lonely. You ignored them because you loved the gift they gave you on your birthday. You ignored them because your friends thought they were really cool. There were loads of signs you ignored for other reasons that you now need to remind yourself of.

• 1:35:52Speaker 01

  Because those signs start to become missing parts of the story that you're telling yourself.

• 1:35:58Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:35:58Speaker 01

  You're telling yourself a story that this was the love of my life. You've got to find every plot hole in that story.

• 1:36:06Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:36:06Speaker 01

  And that happens by talking to your friends again, talking to the people that knew that person again, and making sure you're actually aware of filling in all those plot holes. When you start filling in all those plot holes, you start to go, oh, wait a minute, maybe they weren't the love of my life. But then you feel the opposite. Then you feel, God, I'm really messed up.

• 1:36:22Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:36:22Speaker 01

  And maybe I don't deserve love.

• 1:36:24Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:36:24Speaker 01

  Now it's like, okay, they weren't the love of my life, but will anyone ever love me? So now I'm in that hole. So what do I do with that hole?

• 1:36:31Speaker 01

  One thing that I find really useful for people if they're in the hole of will anyone ever love me

• 1:36:37Speaker 01

  is starting to feel love from real relationships in their life that are not romantic.

• 1:36:44Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:36:45Speaker 01

  We undervalue love that isn't romantic. You could have three friends, a child, a mom and a dad, a brother, a sister that loves you with all their heart. And if you don't have a partner who's romantic, you'll say, I'm not worthy of love, which makes zero sense. So start noticing all the people in your life that actually love you. Because that actually shows you that you're worthy of love. Now you're just looking for the romantic part to come in. And then the third and final thing that I'd want people to do when they're going through a breakup is truly realize that there is no quick fix. There is two steps forward, three steps back.

• 1:37:28Speaker 01

  There is the moment that I'm gonna keep grieving. And one thing I loved that I learned, I was told this by Katie Couric, but I think it's written by a name named Jessica, I forget her surname. Do you remember Ted? Yeah, there's this lady named Jessica, I'll try and find her second name, but she wrote this and I learned about it from Katie Couric. She talked about how grief is like a stone in your pocket. And that stone never goes away. That grief of I could have been with that person, they were the love of my life. It's like a stone in your pocket that you're holding on to.

• 1:38:10Speaker 01

  And that stone will never go away, but as you get stronger, the stone gets lighter. You notice it less.

• 1:38:19Speaker 00

  Chills.

• 1:38:19Speaker 01

  Right? When you get more confident in who you are, the stone never goes away, but it gets easier to hold.

• 1:38:26Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:38:26Speaker 01

  And all of a sudden, you don't even feel it anymore.

• 1:38:28Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:38:29Speaker 01

  So the goal is how can you get stronger? How can you get more confident? How can you build yourself up? Whatever you need, whatever your path to that is, that's what your focus has to be. Because as soon as you get stronger, that stone gets lighter.

• 1:38:42Speaker 00

  Wow. I never really thought of it that way.

• 1:38:45Speaker 01

  It's beautiful to remember that because I think we're trying to get over the stone. But the stone's always gonna be there. It's in your pocket. It's not going away.

• 1:38:51Speaker 00

  It's about making yourself stronger so you feel the weight of it last.

• 1:38:53Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:38:53Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 1:38:55Speaker 01

  Jess, I say, so that's by a wonderful writer named Jess Watson. And I learned about it through Katie Couric who shared it with me, but Jess Watson wrote it.

• 1:39:05Speaker 00

  Do you ever believe in like consuming like media to make yourself feel better?

• 1:39:10Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:39:10Speaker 00

  That's usually what I like prescribe people.

• 1:39:12Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:39:13Speaker 00

  So like I would tell this person to listen to L O M L by Taylor Swift.

• 1:39:16Speaker 01

  Absolutely, go for it. Yeah, absolutely. Listen to breakup songs, listen to love songs, do whatever you want. I mean, all of that stuff's great. I'm trying to give the. You know, I'm trying to give the the hard work part.

• 1:39:29Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:39:29Speaker 01

  But you should hang out with friends.

• 1:39:30Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:39:31Speaker 01

  Do what you need to do like I'm giving you the the the stuff that has to happen under it to really deal with what's going on.

• 1:39:37Speaker 00

  No, a hundred percent.

• 1:39:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:38Speaker 00

  Do you? Okay. Well, I was gonna ask what music you listen to, because I am just now curious.

• 1:39:43Speaker 01

  So I listen to my main. I have spaces. I listen to music. So I pretty much only listen to music in the gym.

• 1:39:50Speaker 00

  Only?

• 1:39:50Speaker 01

  Pretty much. I love driving in silence. I I absolutely love it. Yeah, I know. I'm crazy.

• 1:39:57Speaker 00

  Like.

• 1:39:57Speaker 01

  I absolutely love. I will drive in silence or I'll make a phone call. I'll call someone.

• 1:40:01Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:40:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll call a friend.

• 1:40:02Speaker 00

  Get behind that.

• 1:40:03Speaker 01

  I call a lot of friends because I because all my my best friends live in London. So I'm always trying to find a moment I can catch them. And usually when I'm in a car, I can catch someone.

• 1:40:10Speaker 00

  Call them on WhatsApp, huh?

• 1:40:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. WhatsApp. Yeah, there you go. Yeah.

• 1:40:14Speaker 00

  They love it over there.

• 1:40:15Speaker 01

  So I talk to a lot of friends back in London. I'll call my mom. I'll call my sister. So I spend most of my free time calling people. But if I'm not, I drive in silence a lot. I feel like it's kind of like that dishwasher of sleep. I find like when I'm driving, I can really work through my thoughts, figure things out. Kind of file away some thoughts here and there. I find it really therapeutic. It's been like that for a while.

• 1:40:37Speaker 00

  Do you like to file your thoughts?

• 1:40:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:39Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:40:39Speaker 01

  I like to file them away going, what thought do I want to think about right now? Or I open the tab? Or I done with that one? Let's put it away. That's kind of how I think about my life.

• 1:40:47Speaker 00

  What do you think about the Inside Out movies?

• 1:40:48Speaker 01

  They're great.

• 1:40:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:40:50Speaker 01

  So good. Yeah, they're giving people a vocabulary for their mind. It's brilliant.

• 1:40:53Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:40:54Speaker 01

  Love the Inside. And Inside Out two was surprisingly good, too.

• 1:40:56Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:40:56Speaker 01

  Wasn't as good as the first, but it was.

• 1:40:58Speaker 00

  Oh, you didn't think?

• 1:40:59Speaker 01

  No, you've you preferred it?

• 1:41:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, because they introduced anxiety and nostalgia.

• 1:41:02Speaker 01

  It's more relatable. Yeah.

• 1:41:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, I felt it more.

• 1:41:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I like the Inside Out movies. But yeah, I think, um, yeah, I listen in the gym. I'll listen to. I'll listen to everything from Drake through to, uh, generally, I grew up on a lot of hip hop and R and B. Like, that's what I grew up on. So that's what usually is my gym playlist.

• 1:41:22Speaker 00

  Amazing. Yeah, I listen to Drake in the gym as well sometimes.

• 1:41:25Speaker 01

  It's the only way to get.

• 1:41:26Speaker 00

  Jake.

• 1:41:27Speaker 01

  Well, Drake listens to Taylor Swift in the gym, right?

• 1:41:29Speaker 00

  He does. Do you remember?

• 1:41:30Speaker 01

  That amazing music video?

• 1:41:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:41:32Speaker 01

  Not music video, that amazing advert. It was so good.

• 1:41:35Speaker 00

  She was listening to him, too, and she fell on the treadmill.

• 1:41:37Speaker 01

  It was very good advertising, yeah.

• 1:41:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:41:42Speaker 00

  Only one more? Yeah. Why? You're almost at two hours. Jay.

• 1:41:47Speaker 01

  This time has flown.

• 1:41:49Speaker 00

  Time flies with you.

• 1:41:51Speaker 01

  Time has flown.

• 1:41:51Speaker 00

  Have you gotten that before?

• 1:41:52Speaker 01

  I'm glad you feel that way, too.

• 1:41:53Speaker 00

  I literally feel like I've been talking to you for five minutes.

• 1:41:55Speaker 01

  No, I feel like a lot of, that's how I feel. I feel like a lot of podcasts these days have got shorter. We do a long one, too, so I'm used to this, but I love that you've felt that way.

• 1:42:03Speaker 00

  Have you had a good time here?

• 1:42:05Speaker 01

  I've had the best time.

• 1:42:06Speaker 00

  I've also had like an incredible time. I want to make sure that you also.

• 1:42:08Speaker 01

  This is totally, I will, if you give me your number, I will message you. I actually, no, no, wait, wait, actually, let's talk about, I actually DM'd you my number and said, hey, Jake. So first of all, I, okay, I DM'd Jake. Well, where's my phone? Let's, let's read it for the. I think my, oh yeah, get my IG, yeah, yeah. So I have to do this.

• 1:42:30Speaker 00

  I don't know, I'm sick.

• 1:42:31Speaker 01

  I'm just gonna remind you of this wonderful man who has not responded since last night. Okay, listen to this. So this is mine and Jake Shane's DM thread. This is me on Feb 19th at 7:09 PM respectable hour, right? Love everything you're doing. Three high five or prayer hand emojis, whatever you call them for whichever people you are. Congratulations, right? So then Jake comes back and goes, Jay, in all capital letters, I'm such a huge fan, thank you. And I say, feeling, and then I heart that. And I say, feeling is mutual, love your energy, can't wait to connect in person. Jake hearts that. He goes, me too, it's gonna be awesome.

• 1:43:16Speaker 01

  I don't heart that one, but I say, my number is.

• 1:43:20Speaker 01

  Oh, oh God, let me cut that. I say, I, yeah, don't do that. I say, my number is, beep beep beep, whatever it is. And then you heart that and then no message back, no text.

• 1:43:31Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:43:31Speaker 01

  No DM back, nothing. So then, on March 25th, a month later, I messaged Jake. And I say, love the piece in the Hollywood Reporter, congrats bud, because it was brilliant. I really loved it. And then Jake messages back saying, thank you, pumped to get together soon.

• 1:43:49Speaker 00

  That's what I said?

• 1:43:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:54Speaker 01

  I say, "Me too. Let me know whenever you wanna come over and hang." I said, "I will. Do you live in L.A.?" I say, "Yes, you." No reply.

• 1:44:01Speaker 00

  No, I'm sick.

• 1:44:02Speaker 01

  Not even seen.

• 1:44:04Speaker 00

  Okay, sometimes I miss messages, Jay.

• 1:44:07Speaker 01

  That's why I gave you my number, Jake.

• 1:44:08Speaker 00

  I know, I know, I know.

• 1:44:10Speaker 01

  So, if you give me your number today, which now I'm forcing you, now I feel really desperate.

• 1:44:16Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:44:17Speaker 01

  Maybe I don't want, no, actually Jake, I don't want your number.

• 1:44:20Speaker 00

  Well, you gave me yours, so unless you change it within the hour, I'm gonna text you.

• 1:44:24Speaker 01

  I will wait to see if you text me first. But no, I would, I've had a great time. I love telling people when I'm having a great, it's been so much fun and this is, your greatest skill is you have this ability to bring things out of people that they don't usually talk about and say. And that's how I felt today, like.

• 1:44:41Speaker 00

  Really?

• 1:44:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, we've gone in so many interesting directions, I've told stories I've never told before, like, we've talked about so many interesting things, I love it.

• 1:44:48Speaker 00

  I've had the best time with you ever, and I'm so excited to now ask you my final question. What did we learn today?

• 1:44:56Speaker 01

  Oh, what did we learn today? I think we learned we should not start our day with our phone, or end our day with our phone. We learned that we should stop looking at humans, how we look at technology, and treat them as humans and people, and not expect them to be as entertaining as our phones.

• 1:45:19Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:45:19Speaker 01

  And realize that there's so much more than that. And I think we learned that you are really vulnerable, really thoughtful, and that you have more superpowers than you're aware of. And that when you start putting those superpowers into practice, you're gonna find the love of your life in the most beautiful ways. That's all we learned.

• 1:45:48Speaker 00

  I learned that you learned what a crash out is, and I learned everything that you just said to me just now, is what I learned.

• 1:45:58Speaker 01

  And we learned you're a great listener.

• 1:46:00Speaker 00

  I, yeah, I also learned I'm a good listener, because you said, "How long have my wife and I been together?" "Oh, 12 years, nine in marriage." I don't even have to think about it.

• 1:46:07Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 1:46:08Speaker 00

  So.

• 1:46:08Speaker 01

  You're the best.

• 1:46:09Speaker 00

  You could literally quiz me and I would tell you anything. Well, Jay, I'm gonna text you, and I would like to get together outside of this.

• 1:46:16Speaker 01

  Maybe I'd like to check in and see why he hasn't texted me. I'll just take your number, just in case.

• 1:46:22Speaker 01

  I'm in.

• 1:46:23Speaker 00

  We do need you. Jay, I really love spending time with you. I'm so grateful you came today and I really, really needed this.

• 1:46:33Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:46:33Speaker 00

  And I'm super grateful that you were here.

• 1:46:35Speaker 01

  I needed this too and I learned so much. Thank you so much.

• 1:46:37Speaker 00

  I learned so much too.

• 1:46:38Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:46:38Speaker 00

  Do you want to say a little bye pussies?

• 1:46:40Speaker 01

  Of course. Bye pussies.

• 1:46:42Speaker 00

  Bye guys.