Session 115: Dan Levy

I don't even think I know my Netflix password... Thanks to Booking.com for sponsoring this episode! Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*:⁠ ⁠https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/THERAPUSS⁠⁠ Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $25 discount Tell Me What's Wrong at ⁠ passthatpuss.com Follow Dan & Stream “Big Mistakes” out April 9th! @danjlevy Follow Me! Instagram | @passthatpuss TikTok | @octopusslover8 Listen to "THERAPUSS" Spotify: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/1BHDdC0OVuHqZ706FobfOF ⁠⁠Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/therapuss-with-jake-shane/id1723626781⁠⁠ Amazon Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/93117357-1f23-46e1-8f26-88f5182a68b8/therapuss-with-jake-shane⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Ugh, I hate Mondays.

• 0:01Speaker 01

  King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Swirl Bite?

• 0:03Speaker 00

  Uh, Taylor Hansen? Sure, I'll try one. Mmm.

• 0:09Speaker 02

  Hey, let's get back to work, please.

• 0:10Speaker 00

  But Taylor Hansen's making my day way better with these new soft and swirly King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Bites.

• 0:15Speaker 02

  Taylor Hansen? Nice.

• 0:17Speaker 01

  Try one.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Mmm.

• 0:22Speaker 02

  King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Bites. There's nothing like it.

• 0:42Speaker 03

  Okay, Alice is here.

• 0:44Speaker 04

  Hey, everyone.

• 0:45Speaker 03

  Alice and I just got back from Japan together.

• 0:48Speaker 04

  We did. I don't think we're fully recovered yet.

• 0:51Speaker 03

  In what sense do you mean?

• 0:52Speaker 04

  You know, we like didn't really do it right.

• 0:55Speaker 03

  At all?

• 0:55Speaker 04

  No, and like I kept telling you and you didn't believe me and now I'm just like having like some post-trip depression about it.

• 1:02Speaker 03

  Like what do you wish we did?

• 1:03Speaker 04

  I think we could have done a lot more planning.

• 1:06Speaker 03

  What was your favorite memory of me on the trip and your least favorite, like the most angry you were with me?

• 1:16Speaker 04

  Okay, we're in Kyoto.

• 1:17Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 1:18Speaker 04

  It was my, it was my like down day. Like I didn't want to do anything. I needed to be left alone. What were you doing and why did you fart on my face?

• 1:27Speaker 04

  And it was just, CG had to break us up.

• 1:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think you started crying.

• 1:33Speaker 04

  Oh no, I actually had to take a minute. It was... Do you remember that?

• 1:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, I just remember.

• 1:38Speaker 04

  Oh, and should we talk about the TikTok?

• 1:40Speaker 03

  What TikTok?

• 1:42Speaker 04

  In Kyoto...

• 1:44Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, when I tried to make my TikTok?

• 1:45Speaker 04

  That was just horrible.

• 1:48Speaker 03

  I tried to make the Phoebe Bridgers day off in Kyoto and I kept trying to get a shot of what was it? I was trying to get your shot and I...

• 1:56Speaker 04

  But then it was Ally's shot and then it was back to me and I kept being like, just I don't want to be in it. I just, I just don't.

• 2:01Speaker 03

  And then we had to separate again.

• 2:03Speaker 04

  And then CG was like really just like handling the entire thing. She was like our like group trip leader. And then also like just trying to keep the peace between all of us, but she was, she was like on my side.

• 2:15Speaker 03

  She did demand quiet time when we were skiing and I got back to the room.

• 2:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, that was bad. So that was definitely like the worst day because that, but why did you fart in my face?

• 2:25Speaker 03

  For fun.

• 2:26Speaker 04

  But it was no, it like, it wasn't something like, we don't have that type of relationship. That's why it was so bizarre.

• 2:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think I was just like manic, to be honest. I had just come from Toronto and then we were in Tokyo and then we were in Kyoto and like,

• 2:38Speaker 04

  Like it was true, like brother, sister, like annoying. Um, that's just when you first got there and like, you know, like you're really excited to see each other.

• 2:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:47Speaker 04

  Like we were bouncing up and down. And then the next day, like Jake was set on getting a Birkin.

• 2:53Speaker 03

  No, I was not set on getting a Birkin. We were set on getting Alice a Birkin. Instead, you want to know what Alice did? She spent, you'll never believe how many hours? Four hours? In a Muji.

• 3:09Speaker 03

  She spent four hours in a Muji.

• 3:11Speaker 04

  How many suitcases?

• 3:11Speaker 03

  She showed up to dinner with two suitcases full of stuff from Muji. And I, I didn't really know about Muji, but then I was in Boston and I passed a Muji. And I was like, why did she care to go to Muji in Japan for four hours? She kept texting me, hour two, still here.

• 3:31Speaker 04

  Just wooden spoons.

• 3:32Speaker 03

  That's all you bought?

• 3:33Speaker 04

  Yeah. So many wooden spoons.

• 3:35Speaker 03

  Have you used them? Where are they?

• 3:37Speaker 04

  Nope. Um, you know, I've taken them out of the suitcase, but they're still, you know, like they feel too good to use.

• 3:44Speaker 03

  From Muji?

• 3:48Speaker 04

  So when you got your Birkin, that was a really big highlight because like we could all just like breathe. Like it had happened, like he made it his mission.

• 3:55Speaker 03

  No, it wasn't my mission. It was not.

• 3:57Speaker 04

  It was a super, super high high and then like just it was tears from that.

• 4:01Speaker 03

  No, that's not true. I, I was actually, I was looking for you.

• 4:05Speaker 04

  Uh huh. And you just stumbled on the perfect.

• 4:07Speaker 03

  I, it was, what was I supposed to do?

• 4:10Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 4:10Speaker 03

  And then I ran and where were you? You were at a craft store. And then do you remember the photo face down?

• 4:15Speaker 04

  No.

• 4:18Speaker 04

  In the corner.

• 4:19Speaker 03

  I was too afraid to put anything in the bag.

• 4:26Speaker 03

  The Birkin was face down on the floor for two days straight. And Alice was like, you have to put stuff in it. And then we got on the train for, okay, I would actually say the low of my trip. Was that the fight that, was that when Ally and I fought?

• 4:44Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, that was bad. What did I kept, what did I keep saying?

• 4:47Speaker 03

  You're being children. You're being children.

• 4:50Speaker 04

  He said, why are you embarrassed? You're embarrassing yourself. Ally goes, how can I embarrass myself in front of you guys? I was like, you're embarrassing.

• 4:59Speaker 03

  Are we, you know, I, I would like to bring up this time. Alice and I have a real problem.

• 5:06Speaker 04

  Please go ahead.

• 5:06Speaker 03

  We, as some might describe it, actually, those closest to us would describe us as such, are miserable people.

• 5:15Speaker 04

  Miserable. The most unhappy it gets.

• 5:17Speaker 03

  And like we, when's the last time you felt joy?

• 5:21Speaker 04

  We aren't.

• 5:22Speaker 03

  Sleeping doesn't count.

• 5:26Speaker 03

  Cause I know you were about to say when you got back from breakfast today and went back to bed.

• 5:32Speaker 04

  You don't get it. We aren't happy unless we are upset.

• 5:38Speaker 03

  Together.

• 5:38Speaker 04

  Yes. Like we can be, again, like we had been planning this Japan trip for months. So excited.

• 5:45Speaker 03

  Here's the thing about Alice and I, we'll go to a new place for the first four hours of that new place. We'll say.

• 5:51Speaker 04

  We're full of maniacs.

• 5:54Speaker 03

  We've been waiting our whole lives for this. Like this is where we're meant to be. This is why we were so unhappy before. Four hours later, we got, Alice starts threatening to book flights home.

• 6:05Speaker 03

  When we were away this summer, I'd wake up every day and Alice would send me a screenshot of a flight that she had put on hold. For the following day and would just say, "I'm leaving."

• 6:18Speaker 04

  I'm leaving, period.

• 6:19Speaker 03

  And then every day, it was a toss up whether she would walk down to breakfast or not.

• 6:23Speaker 04

  It was like those long, long stairs. It was like, would I make it?

• 6:27Speaker 03

  Sunglasses on and her flip flops and she'd walk, her tote and she'd walk in and sit down and we would just be finishing and then...

• 6:35Speaker 04

  And then the meal would start again.

• 6:38Speaker 04

  You know, like misery.

• 6:40Speaker 03

  Misery.

• 6:40Speaker 04

  We, we aren't happy unless we're upset.

• 6:42Speaker 03

  But you know what our plan is?

• 6:44Speaker 04

  What is it?

• 6:44Speaker 03

  Married, kiss on the cheek, houses that connect underground.

• 6:51Speaker 03

  And that's it.

• 6:52Speaker 04

  But what's, what's are gonna be our matching?

• 6:55Speaker 03

  We have matching Birkins walking down the aisle.

• 6:58Speaker 03

  What else was on our list? Tokyo, misery, Coachella predictions. You know, you actually know you came on this show.

• 7:05Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 7:06Speaker 03

  And we gave Coachella predictions before? So you're coming, you're coming on Saturday.

• 7:10Speaker 04

  We were pretty naive about our Coachella predictions.

• 7:13Speaker 03

  Are you coming Friday or are you coming Saturday?

• 7:16Speaker 04

  If I can get out of my work situation, I will be coming on Friday. No, I'll be coming on Thursday. If not, I will be there like Saturday evening.

• 7:23Speaker 03

  Okay, so if you're there Saturday evening, like you're missing Cat's Eye.

• 7:27Speaker 04

  No, I need to be there.

• 7:28Speaker 03

  Who's your bias?

• 7:29Speaker 04

  Yoonjae.

• 7:30Speaker 03

  Really? Mine is, um, Laura. You know, this intro is actually for Dan Levy. For Schitt's Creek, I'm surprised you've seen that show. You actually rarely watch or consume television.

• 7:40Speaker 04

  That was one of the only shows I watched. I don't watch TV shows. I can't concentrate and I would rather be on my phone.

• 7:47Speaker 03

  Okay, but you want to know a random show that Alice did watch?

• 7:49Speaker 04

  Oh my God, I almost have to tell you about this movie I watched the other day.

• 7:52Speaker 03

  What movie?

• 7:53Speaker 04

  With Rachel McAdams and is it Dylan O'Brien?

• 7:56Speaker 05

  Send help, yeah.

• 7:57Speaker 04

  Yes, have you seen that?

• 7:58Speaker 03

  No.

• 7:59Speaker 04

  Hey, we need to watch it. It is hysterical.

• 8:03Speaker 03

  Wait, really?

• 8:03Speaker 04

  It's a horror movie.

• 8:04Speaker 03

  But is it funny?

• 8:05Speaker 04

  Like, what did you think?

• 8:06Speaker 05

  I actually really liked it. It's the same Randy camp. Yeah, it's great. Dylan O'Brien's great in it.

• 8:11Speaker 03

  Did you see it in theaters? You went to a movie theater?

• 8:13Speaker 04

  No, no, it was on Apple TV.

• 8:14Speaker 03

  Okay, I was about to say.

• 8:15Speaker 04

  That would have been a really big deal. Okay, Coachella predictions.

• 8:18Speaker 03

  Coachella predictions. I predict that you're gonna come Friday or Thursday night.

• 8:22Speaker 04

  I thought we were gonna talk about like, what's gonna be the most tears? When are you gonna hit your freak out?

• 8:26Speaker 03

  My freak-

• 8:27Speaker 04

  When do you think you're gonna leave? How soon do you think you're gonna get to the festival? Like, I want to know all of it. Who's gonna be the most drama?

• 8:34Speaker 03

  Friday is gonna be my day. Friday is gonna be my day. It's Cat's Eye, Calvin Harris, Disclosure, like- Yeah.

• 8:40Speaker 04

  Sabrina?

• 8:41Speaker 03

  Sabrina. Like, it's gonna be, like, Friday's gonna be one of the best days ever. Saturday, it's Bieber, so it's obviously gonna be amazing.

• 8:48Speaker 04

  Who else is on Saturday?

• 8:49Speaker 03

  The Strokes, who I need to see.

• 8:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's your bet. You've been doing this since you're like seventeen.

• 8:54Speaker 03

  You don't think I really like The Strokes?

• 8:55Speaker 04

  Of course you don't.

• 8:57Speaker 03

  Alice, you don't think so?

• 8:59Speaker 04

  Come on, like, it's you.

• 9:00Speaker 03

  What do you mean?

• 9:01Speaker 04

  Like, okay, yeah, like, you're Bonnie Bear.

• 9:06Speaker 03

  You know I like Bonnie Bear.

• 9:08Speaker 04

  So, you think Friday's gonna be your best day?

• 9:10Speaker 03

  Saturday will be amazing. After Saturday, though, I'm tapped.

• 9:12Speaker 04

  No, it's done.

• 9:13Speaker 03

  Okay, so what, if you had to describe, if we had to describe each other in one, like, like, what is, like, our weirdest thing that we have? Like, I, like, that you have to say, like, you know when you're sitting, you're like, oh, he hates cold food?

• 9:26Speaker 04

  Oh, this is your, you're have, you have to guess.

• 9:28Speaker 03

  My favorite thing that we do, though, is when we, mm.

• 9:36Speaker 03

  Like, mm.

• 9:41Speaker 03

  We stopped speaking in Japan and we only started speaking in inside jokes. Love you so much.

• 9:45Speaker 04

  I love you too.

• 9:47Speaker 03

  We can't tell them about our syncups. That's just for us.

• 9:50Speaker 04

  Cause it will drink set.

• 9:51Speaker 03

  Well, every time we sync up.

• 9:54Speaker 04

  Something goes bad?

• 9:55Speaker 03

  No, it's not bad. It's, you know what it is? You're upset, I'm happy, I'm upset, you're happy. But world is at peace when we are both upset about the same thing. When Alice and I are both upset about the same thing.

• 10:06Speaker 04

  It's electric.

• 10:07Speaker 03

  It is like.

• 10:10Speaker 03

  And we go back and forth for like two hours. Like, no one is safe.

• 10:13Speaker 04

  No, no.

• 10:15Speaker 03

  We go there. Like.

• 10:17Speaker 04

  It's, we go to the dark place, which is our happy place, maybe.

• 10:20Speaker 03

  I think so too. But Alice has watched Schitt's Creek. It's one of the two shows she's seen.

• 10:25Speaker 04

  I'm obsessed. It's so good.

• 10:26Speaker 03

  Well, after we finish Dream Academy, I'm watching it, so we'll, we'll watch it.

• 10:29Speaker 04

  Okay, period.

• 10:30Speaker 03

  Tonight, we have on Dan Levy, and Alice has made her second intro appearance.

• 10:35Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 10:36Speaker 03

  Oh, oh, wait, wait. Alice really needs PR. To all the companies.

• 10:39Speaker 04

  Really badly.

• 10:40Speaker 03

  To all the companies watching.

• 10:42Speaker 04

  Please.

• 10:42Speaker 03

  To all the companies watching, like, just make your plea.

• 10:46Speaker 04

  Listen, like, my DMs are off. Now they're open. Please, I will take anything.

• 10:54Speaker 03

  Please send Alice PR. She'll post it. She really wants it.

• 10:57Speaker 04

  I don't really know how to post things, but like I will.

• 11:00Speaker 03

  So that's it. Okay.

• 11:02Speaker 04

  I love to yap. I'll tell everyone all about it.

• 11:05Speaker 03

  All right, pussies. Enjoy the episode. Alice, I love you.

• 11:08Speaker 04

  I love you.

• 11:09Speaker 03

  Say bye, pussies.

• 11:10Speaker 04

  Bye, pussies.

• 11:14Speaker 03

  Hi, pussies. Welcome back to Therapists. Tonight, we have on the man, the myth, the legend, Dan Levy, whose new show, Big Mistakes, is out on Netflix, April 9th.

• 11:23Speaker 06

  I'm so happy to be here.

• 11:24Speaker 03

  I'm so happy to have you here.

• 11:25Speaker 06

  It's so cozy in here.

• 11:27Speaker 03

  Do you feel as though you're comfortable?

• 11:29Speaker 06

  Yeah, I feel completely comfortable.

• 11:31Speaker 03

  Okay, cool.

• 11:32Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 11:32Speaker 03

  How are you?

• 11:33Speaker 06

  I'm so good. My sister says to say that she embarrassed herself in front of you, I want to say a couple of years ago, she came up to you and said she thought you were really funny, and then she kind of walked away.

• 11:44Speaker 03

  Wait, why is that embarrassing?

• 11:45Speaker 06

  Because I think she was in like, she didn't even think about what she was doing at the time. I think she just like grabbed you and complimented, which ultimately is not a bad thing.

• 11:54Speaker 03

  That's not a bad thing.

• 11:55Speaker 06

  But I think she left feeling like, did I need to do that?

• 11:58Speaker 03

  I don't mind.

• 11:59Speaker 06

  Good.

• 11:59Speaker 03

  Well, I want to hear about Big Mistakes.

• 12:02Speaker 06

  I'm just so happy to talk about it.

• 12:04Speaker 03

  It's amazing. There was this one, not to spoil, well, it's not a spoiler, but you were in bed with your boyfriend.

• 12:10Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 12:11Speaker 03

  And you had this line that I just thought was so moving, where you said, "God is perfect, but the people that interpret him are not."

• 12:19Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 12:19Speaker 03

  I thought that was really beautiful.

• 12:21Speaker 06

  Thanks. You know, like, when you're in a comedy and you're playing a pastor.

• 12:27Speaker 03

  Right.

• 12:27Speaker 06

  The last thing I wanted was to make religion the butt of the joke. I think it's easy, I think it's lazy, and I really wanted his relationship to faith and to God to be real.

• 12:40Speaker 03

  Right.

• 12:40Speaker 06

  So we worked with a gay pastor to authenticate the scenes that we were writing in the church and make sure that like, at no point was Christianity ever going to be the butt of the joke.

• 12:52Speaker 03

  Right.

• 12:53Speaker 06

  It's his relation. No, it never was.

• 12:54Speaker 03

  It never was. I was so moved by it. I was in, I watched it. We were on a road trip from Boston to New York, and I watched it, and I stopped everyone in the Car and I wouldn't shut up about it for like an hour. I thought it was so.

• 13:07Speaker 06

  Thanks.

• 13:07Speaker 03

  Well put.

• 13:08Speaker 06

  It's so nice to like have people watch something that you've just been like working on for a year. And no one really like, none of my friends, none of my family like knew what I was doing.

• 13:18Speaker 03

  They didn't know you.

• 13:19Speaker 06

  Well, you like squirrel away.

• 13:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 13:21Speaker 06

  And I don't really like talking about work that much. So when I'm with my friends, we're not talking about, I'm not like.

• 13:26Speaker 03

  Right.

• 13:27Speaker 06

  I wrote a great line. Do you want me to read it for you?

• 13:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 13:30Speaker 06

  That's not what it is. So it's nice now to like have the show be on its way out. Or I don't know, like when this is coming out.

• 13:38Speaker 03

  It might be out.

• 13:39Speaker 06

  Okay. Um, and have people see it.

• 13:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:42Speaker 06

  That's like the greatest thing. And like what you made.

• 13:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:45Speaker 06

  Sometimes you don't like what you made and you have to talk to people about it and find creative ways of like.

• 13:52Speaker 03

  Has that happened to you before?

• 13:54Speaker 06

  I think I've been lucky in the sense that it sort of hasn't.

• 13:56Speaker 03

  Right.

• 13:57Speaker 06

  But friends of mine have had to go on like full press tours and just be like, mm hmm.

• 14:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:02Speaker 06

  Yeah, no, this is, yeah, learned a lot and we're having a great time.

• 14:07Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 14:08Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 14:08Speaker 03

  Um, how did you and Rachel Senate meet?

• 14:11Speaker 06

  We met on The Idol.

• 14:13Speaker 03

  Oh my God.

• 14:14Speaker 06

  Mm hmm. We were shooting a lot of scenes for The Idol that I thought like, whoa, is this gonna be like?

• 14:20Speaker 03

  A comedy?

• 14:21Speaker 06

  Like a really dark comeback.

• 14:23Speaker 03

  Right.

• 14:23Speaker 06

  Cause it had the potential. There was like, it had the potential to be incredibly satirical. But I didn't know, like it's so, you're shooting so much and it's, a lot of it's improvised and you have no idea really what, what, what the tone of the show is. So there were scenes that were really funny. Rachel was hysterically funny. So when I was like coming up with this show, I, it's a brother sister situation. I don't like writing, especially knowing that this was gonna be like brother sister through the whole show. I really wanted like a female voice to speak to the reality of the lived experience of this character.

• 15:01Speaker 06

  I didn't think that it was, you know, appropriate if I just like created this woman and didn't have the nuance that it would take for a female perspective to kind of lend itself to this. This woman. Um, and so I went to Rachel with the like little idea and said, would you? Create this with me. And she said yes. And we kind of worked over Zoom for a long time and then wrote the pilot and then sold the show.

• 15:28Speaker 03

  Well, it's unbelievable.

• 15:30Speaker 06

  And she's so great.

• 15:32Speaker 03

  And did you, I could hear Rachel in, in Taylor's, like when Taylor speaks, I can hear Rachel.

• 15:39Speaker 06

  I think that was the fun thing about finding Taylor was we had to find someone who was going to kind of walk into this part and not just be doing Rachel.

• 15:49Speaker 03

  Right.

• 15:50Speaker 06

  You know, and like, as soon as Taylor put herself on tape, it was clear that her interpretation of the character was going to be something different.

• 16:00Speaker 03

  Are you guys planning on continuing it for another season? Cause

• 16:05Speaker 06

  I hope so.

• 16:06Speaker 03

  Cause I

• 16:07Speaker 06

  My plan is many seasons for this show.

• 16:09Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 16:09Speaker 06

  I have a big, I know how the entire season, I know how the entire series ends.

• 16:13Speaker 03

  Really?

• 16:14Speaker 06

  Yeah, I have the final image of the show. Many, many seasons down the line. I know exactly the image I want to end on.

• 16:22Speaker 03

  It's kind of like Sopranos for gay people.

• 16:24Speaker 06

  That's right. That's exactly, that's the highest compliment I've gotten so far.

• 16:28Speaker 03

  Right?

• 16:28Speaker 06

  That is the, can we, someone, someone needs to take that and throw it on a

• 16:33Speaker 03

  Clip it.

• 16:34Speaker 06

  Clip it. Um, yeah.

• 16:36Speaker 03

  That's what I felt. I was like

• 16:38Speaker 06

  That filled me with so much joy, I can't even tell you.

• 16:40Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, but that's what I, that's like, if you had to elevator pitch it, it's Sopranos for gay people.

• 16:44Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 16:45Speaker 03

  Yes. You live outside of the city.

• 16:47Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 16:47Speaker 03

  You're in organized crime.

• 16:48Speaker 06

  That's it.

• 16:49Speaker 03

  You're gay pastor.

• 16:50Speaker 06

  Completely incapable of handling any kind of criminal pressure at all.

• 16:53Speaker 03

  Right. But I think, I think your character gets better at it throughout.

• 16:57Speaker 06

  Well, that's the goal.

• 16:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:58Speaker 06

  I mean, the idea would be that these people didn't know that this crime would actually help them.

• 17:04Speaker 03

  Right.

• 17:05Speaker 06

  That's the end goal, I think.

• 17:07Speaker 03

  Right.

• 17:07Speaker 06

  Is that like, if it never crossed their path, maybe they wouldn't have found parts of themselves that they

• 17:12Speaker 03

  Well, yes. Well, Taylor's, yeah, I'm gonna stop spoiling. It's fantastic. It's fantastic. It's really fantastic. I watched it in one day.

• 17:20Speaker 06

  The whole thing?

• 17:21Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 17:21Speaker 06

  The whole show?

• 17:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, yes. I did.

• 17:25Speaker 06

  That's the craziest part, though, to me. You spent 13 months making a show, gone in four and a half hours.

• 17:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, I watched the whole thing in one day.

• 17:33Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 17:33Speaker 03

  Well, I couldn't stop. I was very invested.

• 17:36Speaker 06

  You're like, I think, one of the only people I know who has watched the whole show.

• 17:41Speaker 03

  Well, it's not out yet.

• 17:42Speaker 06

  Well, I know. They haven't got it yet.

• 17:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:43Speaker 06

  But it's so nice to hear that you watched it.

• 17:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, it's lovely. Speaking of, I was like, do I tell him this? Do I not tell him this?

• 17:50Speaker 06

  No, you obviously, what is it? Tell me now.

• 17:52Speaker 03

  I am on my first ever watch of Schitt's Creek.

• 17:55Speaker 06

  Great.

• 17:56Speaker 03

  I know the end. Because I was so ashamed that I hadn't seen it.

• 18:00Speaker 06

  Yeah, but you know what? I sometimes feel like, when things are things, I always...

• 18:06Speaker 03

  I was so intimidated.

• 18:06Speaker 06

  Well, it's intimidation, but I also have this, like, relationship to, like, big cultural moments where I'm like, I'm sure I'm gonna go there. I don't need to be involved in this conversation right now. Let the dust settle, then I'll jump in when I have a relationship to it.

• 18:23Speaker 03

  Right.

• 18:24Speaker 06

  I think that's how we have to watch things.

• 18:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:26Speaker 06

  We can't be pressured into watching things.

• 18:28Speaker 03

  That's how I feel about, like, Survivor as well, or like, other shit.

• 18:32Speaker 06

  So where are you in Schitt's now?

• 18:33Speaker 03

  I'm in season two.

• 18:34Speaker 06

  Oh, you are.

• 18:35Speaker 03

  It's so...

• 18:36Speaker 06

  It just keeps getting better and better.

• 18:37Speaker 03

  We just picked you up from the Amish farm.

• 18:38Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 18:39Speaker 03

  We just picked you up from the Amish farm. It's so good.

• 18:43Speaker 06

  Oh, thanks.

• 18:44Speaker 03

  It's so good.

• 18:45Speaker 06

  It's just, it was a joy to make, and I find that, like, now I get fed clips and things, and I'll always stop and watch it. Like, it's so sweet.

• 18:57Speaker 03

  Did you pitch it to your dad, or did your dad pitch it?

• 19:00Speaker 06

  Yes. I had the idea, I had worked for a long time on The Hills.

• 19:04Speaker 03

  Shut up.

• 19:05Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 19:06Speaker 03

  Like BTS?

• 19:07Speaker 06

  No. Front of camera, hosting the after show for The Hills.

• 19:12Speaker 03

  No way?

• 19:12Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 19:13Speaker 03

  And what was that like?

• 19:14Speaker 06

  It was standing on a, on a... Platform on the pool of the Roosevelt Hotel. Saying, "Welcome to the after show. This is the series finale of The Hills." Every season finale, we would host. So we were involved in the, we became like very involved in the, in like the show. So I got to see a kind of like perspective on reality television, the lives of like wealthy young people. So when I left like hosting TV, I was really preoccupied with this idea of showing what would happen to these families that we've come to like know and love, who are like really well to do. What would happen if it all went away?

• 19:59Speaker 06

  What would the behind the scenes look like?

• 20:01Speaker 03

  Right.

• 20:02Speaker 06

  So that's where the idea for Shits came from, was like living and breathing in reality TV for eight years of my life.

• 20:09Speaker 03

  And

• 20:10Speaker 06

  We started with Laguna Beach. We did the whole thing.

• 20:12Speaker 03

  You did Laguna as well?

• 20:13Speaker 06

  The city.

• 20:15Speaker 06

  I'm shocked they didn't ask me to come and host the reunion.

• 20:18Speaker 03

  For Laguna?

• 20:19Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 20:19Speaker 03

  Would you have done it?

• 20:20Speaker 06

  Hundred percent.

• 20:21Speaker 03

  I thought you weren't like, I thought you didn't enjoy doing those.

• 20:24Speaker 06

  I didn't.

• 20:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:25Speaker 06

  But I still have love for like what got me here.

• 20:28Speaker 03

  Thousand.

• 20:29Speaker 06

  You know what I mean?

• 20:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:32Speaker 06

  Every day that I was hosting television, I knew that this was not in my bones, what I was meant to do. We still had a good time.

• 20:39Speaker 03

  Right.

• 20:41Speaker 06

  It's still like who I am. But I saw that reunion and I was like, interesting.

• 20:48Speaker 06

  No one thought to give me a call. Um.

• 20:51Speaker 03

  You definitely would have got more eyeballs had you.

• 20:54Speaker 06

  Well, I don't know. I mean, is it even out? I don't know. Anyway.

• 20:57Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 20:57Speaker 06

  Oh, okay.

• 21:01Speaker 03

  I was never a Laguna kid. I was a Hills kid.

• 21:04Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 21:05Speaker 03

  I was a Hills kid. I really liked The Hills and I'll never forget the series finale when they pull back the green screen. Cause why?

• 21:11Speaker 06

  Honestly, in my opinion, wrapped up the whole show. Cause even working on the, like the after show, part of the struggle that we had was the Hills cast was. Up to their antics in the press.

• 21:25Speaker 03

  Yes, they were.

• 21:26Speaker 06

  Us Weekly was reporting.

• 21:28Speaker 03

  Yes, they were.

• 21:29Speaker 06

  We were, could only speak about the relationships that were on the show, which happened months prior because they would shoot way in advance.

• 21:38Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 21:38Speaker 06

  So we were in conflict with some of the MTV creatives because we had to adhere to the narratives that were going on in the show.

• 21:49Speaker 03

  And you couldn't talk about the press?

• 21:51Speaker 06

  The press? It was all people could talk about, but no, we couldn't talk about it.

• 21:54Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 21:55Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 21:56Speaker 03

  Do you have a favorite moment from The Hills?

• 21:58Speaker 06

  What does she say? It's a Lauren Conrad line.

• 22:01Speaker 03

  Oh, I forgive you, but I want to forget you.

• 22:06Speaker 06

  The black mascara tear streaming down the face. I mean, it was cinematic.

• 22:10Speaker 03

  It was cinematic. That and when, forget whose wedding they're at, but it's Lauren's last season and Kristen pulls up to the wedding.

• 22:19Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 22:19Speaker 03

  And Lauren gets up. Oh, my God. Like, that show was cinematic.

• 22:24Speaker 06

  Kristin Cavallari is a star.

• 22:25Speaker 03

  A star.

• 22:27Speaker 06

  She knew exactly what she was doing. She played the game perfectly. She was also like really fun to work with because she understood why she was there.

• 22:36Speaker 03

  Right.

• 22:37Speaker 06

  Do you know what I mean? Like, when you're doing that world, you gotta understand what the game you're playing. And she would always come and do our show and was so like, gave us everything we wanted.

• 22:48Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 22:48Speaker 06

  Because she knew she was there to stir the pot.

• 22:51Speaker 03

  She like, she knew how to play reality.

• 22:53Speaker 06

  She was miles ahead.

• 22:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:55Speaker 06

  She knew exactly what was going on.

• 22:56Speaker 03

  She's doing what the Housewives are doing now.

• 22:58Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 22:58Speaker 03

  Do you watch Housewives?

• 22:59Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 23:00Speaker 03

  What's your favorite?

• 23:02Speaker 06

  Salt Lake City, obviously.

• 23:04Speaker 03

  It's the greatest of all time.

• 23:05Speaker 06

  I've been watching Beverly Hills.

• 23:07Speaker 03

  You have?

• 23:08Speaker 06

  Hmm. I love Rachel Zoe.

• 23:10Speaker 03

  I know. I love Rachel Zoe.

• 23:12Speaker 06

  Rachel Zoe Project was one, was, should have been drowning in Emmys.

• 23:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, what was it when they, wasn't there like a flood? And it was like Oscar week or something and all the clothes got wet?

• 23:22Speaker 06

  I mean, there was always a problem.

• 23:23Speaker 03

  There was always, always, always a problem.

• 23:25Speaker 06

  Always a problem and somehow she pulled it off.

• 23:27Speaker 03

  So this season of Beverly Hills is good, you're saying?

• 23:29Speaker 06

  Is it as good as like?

• 23:31Speaker 03

  Rena?

• 23:32Speaker 06

  No.

• 23:32Speaker 03

  Right.

• 23:34Speaker 06

  It'll never be as good as Rena.

• 23:35Speaker 03

  Ever. Or like, uh, what's my favorite? When Erica Jane, I forget, there are some other place and she has these, these fucking bangs.

• 23:43Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 23:43Speaker 03

  And she's waiting for the, to cross the street.

• 23:46Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 23:46Speaker 03

  And she goes.

• 23:48Speaker 03

  Do you remember that? Do you remember that?

• 23:50Speaker 06

  Erica Jane is one of the great cast members.

• 23:53Speaker 03

  One of the great, her, Rena. I mean, really and truly, I think early Beverly Hills with the Richard sisters are just-

• 24:00Speaker 06

  Well, it's perfect television.

• 24:02Speaker 03

  That's real.

• 24:03Speaker 06

  The Rena line delivery with Denise Richards, with the like, "Ooh, you are so angry."

• 24:12Speaker 03

  Oh my god, I just got to my toes are curling. Like, she's so good.

• 24:17Speaker 06

  She should be EGOT.

• 24:19Speaker 03

  EGOT.

• 24:20Speaker 06

  Just from that.

• 24:21Speaker 03

  Rena should be EGOT.

• 24:22Speaker 06

  Rena's line deliveries were so extraordinary, I would like lift out of my body.

• 24:28Speaker 03

  When Ken gave the buddy back and she goes, "Thank you."

• 24:31Speaker 06

  Yeah, unbelievable. The whole, anyway, I love Lisa Rena.

• 24:35Speaker 03

  Me too. I love all, there's always, the Lisas on The Housewives are always great.

• 24:38Speaker 06

  Lisa Rena is the Kristin Cavallari of Beverly Hills Housewives.

• 24:43Speaker 03

  What a great comp. That was biblical, what you just said.

• 24:46Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 24:47Speaker 03

  That was biblical.

• 24:48Speaker 06

  She knew exactly what she was doing and knew when to get out.

• 24:53Speaker 03

  She got out at the perfect time. Now give me your thoughts on Salt Lake.

• 24:56Speaker 06

  I just don't understand, I think because my life is so boring, I look at these reality shows and I'm like, how could, I mean, these are real li-

• 25:06Speaker 03

  And have you seen the cast interact in person ever?

• 25:08Speaker 06

  No, I've never seen them in person.

• 25:10Speaker 03

  They fight.

• 25:11Speaker 06

  Ah!

• 25:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, but Lisa Barlow is like, "That's my girl." Yeah, I know.

• 25:18Speaker 06

  Lisa Barlow.

• 25:20Speaker 03

  That's my girl. She's very-

• 25:21Speaker 06

  Unbelievable voice.

• 25:23Speaker 03

  She's very important to God. Like, very, very-

• 25:26Speaker 06

  And you can't, I mean, the casting, how do they find these people? Like, wha-

• 25:31Speaker 03

  I, I think they go, I think Andy is now going to these, like, he's not doing the big cities anymore, he's going to like more niche-

• 25:39Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 25:40Speaker 03

  Areas.

• 25:41Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 25:41Speaker 03

  Cause they're doing Rhode Island. Which is apparently fantastic. And I'm sat and I'm ready.

• 25:47Speaker 06

  Well, Potomac, Salt Lake City, like you're getting into, you're getting into niche markets.

• 25:52Speaker 03

  Do you watch Traders?

• 25:53Speaker 06

  I watched the celebrity, UK celebrity Traders.

• 25:56Speaker 03

  How was that?

• 25:57Speaker 06

  Lovely.

• 25:58Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 25:59Speaker 06

  Really, really fun. And I've been meaning, anyway, this is a whole conversation about like how I don't know how to download the Peacock app, anyway.

• 26:06Speaker 03

  You don't?

• 26:06Speaker 06

  Well, I sort of, it's like, you need to, I think I did, and then I, there's a password, and I have never figured out that, I don't want to reset a password.

• 26:13Speaker 03

  I mean, that, that's hell, by the way.

• 26:15Speaker 06

  I just want to buy it.

• 26:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, you open the gates of hell, and you have to log into a streaming service on your television.

• 26:21Speaker 06

  Nope, won't do it.

• 26:22Speaker 03

  You know who makes it real easy?

• 26:25Speaker 03

  Netflix.

• 26:28Speaker 03

  To actually say it's the easiest one.

• 26:29Speaker 06

  It is the easiest one. Very rarely do I ever have to reset.

• 26:33Speaker 03

  No, never.

• 26:33Speaker 06

  I don't even think I know my Netflix password.

• 26:35Speaker 03

  You don't, because you don't need to.

• 26:36Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 26:37Speaker 03

  Because they make it easy.

• 26:38Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 26:39Speaker 03

  They make it easy.

• 26:40Speaker 06

  Easily accessible.

• 26:40Speaker 03

  Easily.

• 26:41Speaker 06

  Click, click, click.

• 26:42Speaker 03

  Click, scan the code.

• 26:43Speaker 06

  Click, click, press play.

• 26:45Speaker 03

  Press play.

• 26:46Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 26:46Speaker 03

  What are you watching right now, besides?

• 26:49Speaker 06

  Uh, besides Beverly Hills?

• 26:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, just like in general.

• 26:54Speaker 06

  Uh, Love Story.

• 26:56Speaker 03

  Me too. It's amazing.

• 26:58Speaker 06

  No, it's like, it's, I think what's brilliant about Love Story is they captured a time that people are so nostalgic for. I think it's why everyone's starting to dress like Carolyn Biset Kennedy again. And JFK, like it's.

• 27:11Speaker 03

  Do you remember that in real time?

• 27:13Speaker 06

  No.

• 27:14Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 27:14Speaker 06

  I don't remember the impact of, of that, like, cultural moment, I was too young.

• 27:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:23Speaker 06

  But yeah, it's major. And I love seeing like a Calvin Klein store from the 90s, I want to buy all those clothes.

• 27:28Speaker 03

  I've been wearing Calvin Klein because of it lately.

• 27:30Speaker 06

  I was shopping vintage Calvin Klein in Japan a week ago.

• 27:34Speaker 03

  I'm so jealous of the way you did Japan.

• 27:36Speaker 06

  You were just there, though.

• 27:37Speaker 03

  I was just there, I did, we did Tokyo, Kyoto, and Niseko.

• 27:40Speaker 06

  Oh, you, okay, you skied.

• 27:42Speaker 03

  I skied one day, and then I was in too much pain, and I said, I, I'm done.

• 27:45Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 27:46Speaker 03

  I'm done. But Tokyo, I think, might be my favorite place in the entire world.

• 27:49Speaker 06

  It is my favorite place on the planet. I go every year to, like, reset my brain.

• 27:54Speaker 03

  Do you go alone?

• 27:56Speaker 06

  No, I go with friends, always.

• 27:58Speaker 03

  And do you, what, like?

• 27:59Speaker 06

  And often the same friends. And I think it's one of those experiences where like, it's, did you go by yourself?

• 28:04Speaker 03

  No, I went with my friends.

• 28:05Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's great. And it's, it feels like you're having like- Such a rare experience with your friends. Like, you go there, everyone's now going to Japan, but even still, you go and feel like nobody's experiencing the joy that we're experiencing.

• 28:22Speaker 03

  It's just the way of life there. I feel like-

• 28:24Speaker 06

  The streets are clean?

• 28:25Speaker 03

  The streets are clean.

• 28:26Speaker 06

  I will say this, the impact of the girl scene, when Shoshana lands at the American airport after living in Japan-

• 28:35Speaker 03

  And she's defeated.

• 28:36Speaker 06

  And she is looking around, like, what kind of hot trash mess is this situation? Nothing has encapsulated the sadness of returning from Japan more than that scene.

• 28:51Speaker 03

  And you know, they have one of my favorite needle drops of all time in that scene. It's, um, god, what is it? It's, uh-

• 28:58Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:59Speaker 03

  Past Lives by Bourne's.

• 29:00Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 29:01Speaker 03

  It's so, so good. And you have a great needle drop in Big Mistakes, you have a Robyn song.

• 29:07Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, we have a couple of great needle drops that, like, if you know, you know. Like, also the Sleigh Bells needle drop in episode two.

• 29:15Speaker 03

  It's phenomenal.

• 29:17Speaker 06

  That's, I mean, that's the fun thing. For me, it's all about playlists. I put playlists together when I'm writing, I put playlists together-

• 29:22Speaker 03

  Do you really?

• 29:23Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 29:23Speaker 03

  Who were you listening to when you were writing the show?

• 29:25Speaker 06

  Peaches.

• 29:25Speaker 03

  Peaches.

• 29:26Speaker 06

  And then asked her to score the show, and she said yes.

• 29:32Speaker 03

  Thank you, SeatGeek, for sponsoring tonight's episode, and what a perfect time, because festival season has officially begun. I am making my way to the desert for Coachella yet again. And it really reminds me of how special festival season is, because you, there really is no, festivals bring this sense of, like, so many different genres of music together, and to be able to be there and to see that, and to see multiple artists you love in one day, I think is so, so unique and special. We have many, many artists we love on the festival circuit. We have Tate McCray headlining Lollapalooza, we have Adella

• 30:14Speaker 03

  at Lollapalooza, Sabrina at Coachella, Charli XCX is back on the- Festival circuit, Olivia Dean, like there's so many people to see and more so, there's so many people you might not know that you can fall in love with. My favorite experience ever, like I think is one of the most like highs you can feel is falling in love with an artist as they're performing their live show. Um, that happened to me with Blue Tiger. SeatGeek makes it easy to get tickets to these festivals because you can use code therapist for 10% off. Not only that, if you click the link in the description, it will download the app and automatically add the code therapist for 10% off. In addition, there are so many people going on tour. Adella and Demi Lovato are going on tour together. Ariana is going on tour and SeatGeek makes it easy to make sure you're getting a good

• 30:59Speaker 03

  deal because when you go to get a ticket, it's rated on a scale from one to 10, one being not the best, 10 being the best. So you can tell if the money you are spending is worth the seat. You can get tickets today on the site or in the app. Use code therapist for 10% off. Thank you SeatGeek for sponsoring tonight's episode and I hope everybody who wants to or maybe hasn't been yet, has a beautiful festival season and you can do that using SeatGeek.

• 31:27Speaker 06

  I couldn't be more excited for people to watch the show because the, the score that her and Nora put together is so like singular and great and cool and nothing I could have ever thought about.

• 31:41Speaker 03

  It's just, it really makes the show, for me, it made the show so much cooler, her score.

• 31:49Speaker 06

  Well, yeah, I'm not a cool person.

• 31:51Speaker 03

  I think it, well, I think you're-

• 31:52Speaker 06

  I'm not fishing for compliments.

• 31:53Speaker 03

  Well, I think you're pretty cool.

• 31:54Speaker 06

  Thanks, but not like that. Like I, I, I'm, I, I could never do what she does. And I think part of the great thing about making things is that you get access to people who are like cooler than you.

• 32:09Speaker 03

  Right.

• 32:10Speaker 06

  And you bring these people together and you hope that the combination of all of these different perspectives will make something special. And in this case, it really did.

• 32:20Speaker 03

  Did you feel that way about Schitt's Creek? Because Schitt's Creek didn't really take off until season three, right?

• 32:28Speaker 06

  I don't think it really took off until we had finished season six.

• 32:31Speaker 03

  You think so?

• 32:32Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 32:33Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 32:33Speaker 06

  I remember writing and writing the final episode of Schitt's Creek just as I was sensing culture was like-

• 32:43Speaker 06

  Into it.

• 32:44Speaker 03

  It's very rare that that can happen these days.

• 32:47Speaker 06

  We had no interference.

• 32:48Speaker 03

  Because people don't, people cancel shows after one season now.

• 32:51Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 32:51Speaker 03

  They have no.

• 32:52Speaker 06

  Shits would have been canceled after three episodes.

• 32:55Speaker 03

  You think so?

• 32:55Speaker 06

  Yeah. I think it was so strange, like the choices were really strange. It wasn't a fast paced show. It's a, you have to kind of sit back and like get into it. And also so much of the show is foundation laying. So like that first season is ultimately setting up like who these people were in order for us to earn who they become. And we're now so obsessed with like, if it doesn't hit in the first 48 hours, like.

• 33:24Speaker 03

  Right.

• 33:25Speaker 06

  Burn in hell.

• 33:26Speaker 03

  Right.

• 33:27Speaker 06

  You, I felt so grateful to like be able to tell a story because part of it, part of why I think people love Schitt's Creek is you earn the emotional turns.

• 33:36Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 33:38Speaker 06

  There's never a point where we're asking an audience member to like care where we haven't earned that emotional turn.

• 33:45Speaker 03

  Right.

• 33:46Speaker 06

  And you gotta lay the foundation for that.

• 33:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:48Speaker 06

  You can't expect an audience to cry for a character when they just met them. That comes with time, but time is the hardest thing to find now in entertainment.

• 33:59Speaker 03

  How did you feel as though you got lucky enough to have those seasons before it took off?

• 34:04Speaker 06

  Well, we were just lucky in the sense that we had a network in Canada that really needed us. And we had a teeny tiny, teeny, teeny tiny network in America that needed us.

• 34:15Speaker 03

  What network was it in America?

• 34:16Speaker 06

  It was called Pop TV.

• 34:18Speaker 03

  That's what Schitt's Creek was on?

• 34:18Speaker 06

  It was the former TV Guide network.

• 34:21Speaker 03

  I remember TV Guide.

• 34:22Speaker 06

  That's right. It was like a, it was a standard definition, like, like grid of what television was on TV. It wasn't, by the time it flipped over to pop and we were on TV, we were in standard definition in most homes. When like standard definition, when people's TVs.

• 34:39Speaker 03

  You were in SD.

• 34:39Speaker 06

  We were in, yeah. Your TV was HD, we were like, it was like watching an episode of Sex and the City.

• 34:45Speaker 03

  Right.

• 34:47Speaker 06

  We just found a spot that like, we found places that wanted us. And that's how we were able to stay on the air. I think if we were on an actual network, we would have been canceled immediately.

• 34:59Speaker 03

  It's so crazy to hear that because when I, when I think of a show like that, that takes time to grow, I also think of like Breaking Bad. Breaking Bad didn't take off until season three. Season three, season four, and it's like, if only we gave that same grace to all these new shows coming out.

• 35:16Speaker 06

  I think you have to believe in people. That to me is like, we've lost that relationship between

• 35:27Speaker 06

  creators and the space to like, try things. Because it's such an immediate, like if it doesn't hit instantly, it's done. But think about how many, think about the potential of how many shows or,

• 35:43Speaker 06

  you know, I don't know, that just didn't get the chance because God forbid their first season be still trying to figure out what it is.

• 35:52Speaker 03

  Like The Wilds, have you ever seen The Wilds?

• 35:54Speaker 06

  No.

• 35:55Speaker 03

  It's Sarah Pigeon.

• 35:56Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 35:57Speaker 03

  Yes, and it's, it's, I think it was only on for two seasons, and that third season, because the first season was the girls were stranded on this island, the second season where these boys were stranded on this island, and the third season was gonna merge everyone, and it got canceled before they could do it. I know.

• 36:15Speaker 06

  I think Industry is the same way.

• 36:17Speaker 03

  I mean, talk about my favorite show.

• 36:18Speaker 06

  Season four of Industry?

• 36:20Speaker 03

  I am not caught up yet, is it amazing?

• 36:22Speaker 06

  What?

• 36:22Speaker 03

  No, I, I'm not caught, wait, are they on season five right now or four?

• 36:25Speaker 06

  No, four.

• 36:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm not caught up.

• 36:26Speaker 06

  You haven't seen the last season of Industry?

• 36:28Speaker 03

  I have not, I'm waiting to binge it.

• 36:29Speaker 06

  I don't want to bring shame into this room.

• 36:31Speaker 03

  No, well, it's here already.

• 36:32Speaker 06

  I don't want to bring it in, I don't want you to feel it.

• 36:35Speaker 03

  Is it that good? Because I watched seasons one through three, and she's seen it twice.

• 36:39Speaker 06

  Last season? Episode two of the last season?

• 36:43Speaker 03

  Oh, I've heard, I've heard, I've heard, I've heard.

• 36:45Speaker 06

  Is one of the most, it's masterful episodes of TV I think I've ever seen.

• 36:50Speaker 03

  You think Emmy time?

• 36:51Speaker 06

  If it's not Emmy time,

• 36:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:53Speaker 06

  I will be out there with a sign boycotting.

• 36:56Speaker 03

  Justice for industry.

• 36:58Speaker 06

  The cat, also, you're dealing with like a young cast of actors that are in there like just crushing.

• 37:06Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's fucking electric.

• 37:09Speaker 06

  It's, ah, it's also like, it's the hottest TV on TV.

• 37:17Speaker 03

  I know.

• 37:17Speaker 06

  It's so hot.

• 37:20Speaker 03

  I'm like, wow, I want to hook up with people and like do drugs and dance.

• 37:23Speaker 06

  Ken Harrington, are you out of your mind?

• 37:25Speaker 03

  Doesn't he turn like slightly gay?

• 37:27Speaker 06

  Yeah, they like, yeah, they go there-ish.

• 37:30Speaker 03

  That's gonna send me.

• 37:31Speaker 06

  Not enough for me, but.

• 37:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's gonna send me into psychosis.

• 37:33Speaker 06

  It really, I was alone when I watched it.

• 37:36Speaker 03

  I was, that was like when I.

• 37:37Speaker 06

  I couldn't be with anyone when I watched that episode.

• 37:40Speaker 03

  That's like when I watched He Did Rivalry and like, I remember like pre-heated rivalry and like post. And my friend, my best friend, who's gay, called me and said, because it was, you know, those two weeks in winter? Where it's like, um, December, it's like between New Year's and Christmas and like, it's just a very like.

• 37:58Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, no man's land.

• 37:59Speaker 03

  No man's land.

• 38:00Speaker 06

  Uh huh.

• 38:00Speaker 03

  He said, Jake, just like, maybe I would, if you could watch heated rivalry after New Year's. I really think for you, like, you would, you would, you would need that, like, just like, no, you can't be, you can't watch this and then be alone.

• 38:14Speaker 06

  I see.

• 38:14Speaker 03

  And I, and I did, and.

• 38:15Speaker 06

  He was more concerned about the aftermath of having watched.

• 38:18Speaker 03

  For my mental health and Louise calls it the great crash out of 2026.

• 38:22Speaker 06

  It was everyone's great crash out, I think.

• 38:23Speaker 03

  It was, it was, I think I was put into genuine psychosis.

• 38:27Speaker 06

  Okay. It's fun. It's definitely fun to play with that.

• 38:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:31Speaker 06

  I had a really good time with the like romance and shits. We, we had some like, you're about to find out.

• 38:37Speaker 03

  I know, I'm so excited.

• 38:38Speaker 06

  We had a great time.

• 38:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:40Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 38:40Speaker 03

  Would you, did you guys do a lot of improv in that show?

• 38:43Speaker 06

  No.

• 38:44Speaker 03

  In Shit's Creek, you didn't do a lot of improv?

• 38:47Speaker 06

  We would improvise like maybe the, the way into a scene or the way out, but we would never, like, the scenes were written.

• 38:54Speaker 03

  Do you, what was a scene that you remember that like Catherine like made you break, break?

• 39:01Speaker 06

  It was the very first episode that we were shooting and I think at one point she's lost a tennis bracelet.

• 39:09Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 39:09Speaker 06

  And she's screaming around the motel room, looking for a tennis bracelet. And again, we didn't know, when Annie and I walked into that room, we didn't know what she would do. So we walked into the room and at one point she starts screaming and she opens a drawer trying to look for this tennis bracelet. And I guess there had happened to be a light bulb from like a crew member that was switching a light bulb out.

• 39:34Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 39:35Speaker 06

  So it just like, it wasn't a planted prop, it was just something she found. And she pulled out this light bulb and started screaming at the light bulb.

• 39:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:43Speaker 06

  And if you go back and watch that episode, you can see that I'm doing like, um, what's that Bill Hader character on SNL where he's just like constantly? Which one?

• 39:53Speaker 03

  Stefan.

• 39:54Speaker 06

  Stefan. I'm Stefan-ing through that entire scene just because I couldn't. And then it got to a point where it's like, I think it's funny that characters find other characters in TV funny.

• 40:04Speaker 03

  Right.

• 40:05Speaker 06

  So I started just leaning into the fact that like, if I find this funny.

• 40:10Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 40:11Speaker 06

  Then maybe David found this funny. And maybe the audience gets to like, have a bit of a, is it the actor or is it the character? But I think it's like, we laugh at our friends.

• 40:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:24Speaker 06

  So much of comedy, you notice that the characters themselves don't think that the other person is, what they're doing is funny?

• 40:31Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:32Speaker 06

  So there was this added layer for all of us where I just started saying to people like, if you think it's, if you're gonna laugh, laugh.

• 40:38Speaker 03

  Right, just laugh.

• 40:39Speaker 06

  Your character will find it funny.

• 40:40Speaker 03

  Wow, I think that's what really has helped make the show so unique because that actually is something I picked up on. And that's why when you said you don't break, I'm like, cause I feel like sometimes when I'm watching shit.

• 40:51Speaker 06

  No, it's a cheat. If you, if, yeah.

• 40:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:54Speaker 06

  If breaking is part of your character, then you don't break.

• 40:56Speaker 03

  My favorite thing.

• 40:57Speaker 06

  I also just totally lied to your face when I said I don't break that often.

• 41:00Speaker 03

  I know you did.

• 41:01Speaker 06

  It was a lie.

• 41:02Speaker 03

  I know you did.

• 41:03Speaker 06

  And we're getting around to the fact that I just lied and I am reconciling that.

• 41:06Speaker 03

  No, it's okay. My thing with lying is if you say you lied, then it's not a lie anymore.

• 41:11Speaker 06

  Well, I also think it's like, sometimes you say something you believe were the case and it's a lie.

• 41:18Speaker 03

  Oh, you're speaking like a true liar.

• 41:20Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 41:20Speaker 03

  You're speaking like a true liar.

• 41:22Speaker 06

  Yeah, well, I just lied.

• 41:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that's okay.

• 41:25Speaker 06

  And that's okay.

• 41:25Speaker 03

  And that's okay.

• 41:26Speaker 06

  I feel accepted.

• 41:27Speaker 03

  But that's why I told you I was on my first watch of Shit. I called Louise and I said, Louise, I'm so anxious that I have not seen this show in full. And she's like, I think you should just tell him that you're on your first watch of it. So that's me doing this right now.

• 41:41Speaker 06

  A hundred percent, but I also don't.

• 41:43Speaker 03

  I know you don't care.

• 41:44Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 41:44Speaker 03

  But they will.

• 41:46Speaker 06

  Will they?

• 41:47Speaker 03

  Oh, yes, people ride for that show like, like that show is, like, when I bring up Shit's Creek to people, they're like, that show has gotten me through the hardest times of my entire life. Like, I've never seen such passion around a show before.

• 42:02Speaker 06

  I think it was, I mean, it came to life in the pandemic. And it's about a family that's forced into living in small, close quarters with each other and essentially into a kind of quarantine. So I think there was a combination of like, the show dropping at a point when people themselves could see bits of their own relationships in it.

• 42:24Speaker 03

  Right.

• 42:25Speaker 06

  So I do think that the circumstance, as unfortunate as it was, helped a layer of connection exist that might not have been there had the show been out when there wasn't.

• 42:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, the pandemic.

• 42:39Speaker 06

  A global plague.

• 42:40Speaker 03

  The pandemic, it's so weird thinking about the pandemic because in parts, I'm like, it's weird to say I'm grateful for it.

• 42:46Speaker 06

  Uh huh.

• 42:47Speaker 03

  But in like a weird way, I kind of am.

• 42:50Speaker 06

  There were days where I was like, this is heaven. I mean, it wasn't, obviously.

• 42:55Speaker 03

  Right, it was.

• 42:56Speaker 06

  But as an introvert.

• 42:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:58Speaker 06

  Who likes to spend a lot of time at home.

• 43:00Speaker 03

  You're an introvert?

• 43:01Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:02Speaker 03

  Wow, I did not know that about you.

• 43:04Speaker 06

  Very anxious socially.

• 43:05Speaker 03

  Okay, I had, I've never in my life had real social anxiety. And the other night I went out.

• 43:13Speaker 06

  What does that feel like?

• 43:14Speaker 03

  Um, I felt like I was walking into a room.

• 43:19Speaker 06

  Oh, this is the other night when you did experience social anxiety?

• 43:22Speaker 03

  I wa- oh, you're- would say like to not. Um, you're just kind of like.

• 43:26Speaker 06

  Like if someone said, I'm at a party.

• 43:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:29Speaker 06

  And you didn't know anyone at this party. You wouldn't think twice about like, when I arrive at this party, I need to instantly know where those people are so that I don't have to like, what if people look at me walking into this party and be like, who is this person? Why are they here? That's what goes on in my mind.

• 43:46Speaker 03

  So those thoughts exist for everyone, but for people without really intense social anxiety, I think the thought is more passing than like, um, concrete.

• 43:54Speaker 06

  Right.

• 43:54Speaker 03

  So like, I have that thought, but then I just do it.

• 43:57Speaker 06

  Got it.

• 43:58Speaker 03

  As opposed to the other night, I was looking around and I was like, I need to get the fuck out of here.

• 44:06Speaker 06

  Anyway, it was a party.

• 44:08Speaker 03

  Right, and I, I walked into the room, and I was fine for most of the night, and then all of a sudden, everyone was dancing, and I was looking at each group of people dancing, and I was like-

• 44:18Speaker 06

  How many people were there? Set the scene.

• 44:19Speaker 03

  Like a hundred, and I, and I couldn't be like, yeah, I couldn't be like, I don't, uh, like, which group do I dance with? And I was too like conscious of my own being that I was like, you know what? This is the first time I'm really experiencing the social anxiety that people speak of. I have to go home.

• 44:36Speaker 06

  I also give you credit for having more than one group that you could dance with.

• 44:40Speaker 03

  No, but I couldn't. I don't think. I, I mean, I could have. I could have walked up and been like, hey, it's me.

• 44:45Speaker 06

  I feel like you, of all people, can do that.

• 44:48Speaker 03

  Really? Well, because I'm sure and unassuming.

• 44:51Speaker 06

  No, I think you're incredibly charming and people want to be around you.

• 44:56Speaker 03

  Wow, thank you so much.

• 44:57Speaker 06

  Well, you know that.

• 44:58Speaker 03

  I some, I really don't sometimes.

• 45:00Speaker 06

  Okay, sometimes.

• 45:01Speaker 03

  I really, no, I really, I really-

• 45:03Speaker 06

  Sometimes you do that.

• 45:04Speaker 03

  I really feel very annoying sometimes. Did you, have you ever felt that way in your life?

• 45:08Speaker 06

  I feel annoying every single day.

• 45:10Speaker 03

  I really feel, well, and then it's hard when people online are like, no, you are annoying.

• 45:14Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. You'll read one comment, you'll see people like saying the nicest things, and then one comment that speaks to a thought you've actually had, and you're like, that's it. That person with an anonymous-

• 45:26Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 45:27Speaker 06

  Bot inter-

• 45:27Speaker 03

  They got me. They got me.

• 45:29Speaker 06

  They know exactly who I am.

• 45:30Speaker 03

  It's that scene in Girls where Lena Dunham says, everything you could have possibly, you could possibly say to me have said to myself already in the last 10 minutes.

• 45:36Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 45:37Speaker 03

  And that's, that's, but I, and I really felt that the other week. Like, I was reading stuff and I was like, ooh, I feel that way.

• 45:44Speaker 06

  I also think that the press cycle at this point is such a tornado that if, if something works, like for shits, we, we were, I mean, you know, you get into the kind of- Cycle of of people wanting to talk to you because your show's a hit. And then the more you talk, the more you speak. And then the more you speak, the more you're aware of yourself speaking. And then by the end of it, I was so kind of embarrassed of the level of exposure that I had.

• 46:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:17Speaker 06

  That it's almost permanently scarred my relationship to like myself in a way. A lot of the therapy that I'm doing is like, no, you're not embarrassing.

• 46:27Speaker 03

  Was there a moment that really stuck with you?

• 46:30Speaker 06

  It's not a moment, but it, you can see it happen. Like someone goes from like making something that's cool, that catches on. Then there's the like photo shoot cycle. Where suddenly it's like a million photo shoots and now we're whatever. Then you go through like a, a, a cycle of talking about your work. And when you talk about your work and people pedestalize your work, then you start to talk about the like, how profound your work is, which you've never thought about before. Then you start to talk about, okay, well, you like, I guess I am doing something important. And then when the dust settles of all of it, you're like, what a clown.

• 47:10Speaker 03

  Really?

• 47:10Speaker 06

  For me at least, yeah. I, I, I think I walked away from when the Emmys happened. And we, we want, I mean, I said it in my Emmy speech, which breaks my heart.

• 47:24Speaker 03

  What'd you say?

• 47:24Speaker 06

  I actually said when I won my last Emmy of the night, can't believe I, can't believe that's a sentence.

• 47:31Speaker 03

  That was awesome.

• 47:32Speaker 06

  I think I said, I, I apologized.

• 47:37Speaker 03

  For just being?

• 47:38Speaker 06

  Because I was so aware that this was the moment when people were going to say, okay, they have too much.

• 47:48Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 47:50Speaker 06

  And I was aware of it in real time, and it's one of the big heartbreaks, was the fact that culture, or the way that we respond to people's success, can sometimes be vicious after a certain point. It's like you see it with people. It's like, we lift them up, we lift them up, we lift them up, we lift them up. And then at some point, there's a tipping point where the media decides, okay, they've had enough.

• 48:15Speaker 03

  Why do you think that is?

• 48:17Speaker 06

  Because you can't, the balloon can't stay afloat forever.

• 48:21Speaker 03

  Right.

• 48:21Speaker 06

  It's just how this works. And I think, I remember in that moment, feeling insecure. And then I heard a conversation that was happening publicly, there was a podcast that happened where someone was saying like, that I didn't deserve all that I got. And I thought, again, it's that moment of like, oh, someone sees me.

• 48:46Speaker 03

  Yes, yeah.

• 48:49Speaker 06

  And it took me a long time to realize, I did deserve what I got. And also, I was hearing this from another gay person, and I thought, more than anything else, if I win, you win.

• 49:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:07Speaker 06

  If I get to make more things, you get to do more things. The more that culture sees us succeeding, the more they want to give us things. And it's very short sighted, because it's like, oh, this is a hit, let's recreate it. But I remember at the time thinking like, damn. Okay, I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a take. You're entitled to it.

• 49:30Speaker 03

  Gays are really hard on other gays.

• 49:31Speaker 06

  But like, man, when was the last time, like, a gay person

• 49:38Speaker 06

  set a record at the Emmys?

• 49:39Speaker 03

  Right.

• 49:41Speaker 06

  Why is, why are we not celebrating that? And I'm not asking people to like blindly support my work, but I always think when there's a real success that is part of the community, like, that is a win for all of us.

• 49:53Speaker 03

  I also find that, like, the most

• 49:58Speaker 03

  Uh, like, specific, uh, like, hate, hatred, I get. If I, if I encounter it, it's from another gay guy.

• 50:07Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 50:08Speaker 03

  And I really, I don't know what it is, and it really, it hurts more than anyone else saying anything to me. And I don't know why.

• 50:17Speaker 06

  I think it's because we're still under the, it's like, a lot of my, like, actress friends say that some of the some of the worst moments in their lives, where they felt the worst, came from other women. And you look at a cultural stand, like, it, I think it's a cultural thing. I think we are indoctrinated to believe that there's only so many spaces for people who are not

• 50:42Speaker 06

  straight and white and male.

• 50:44Speaker 03

  Right.

• 50:44Speaker 06

  And so everyone else has kind of grown up with this sort of belief that, like, if I happen to make it, it's against the odds, and I don't want to lose that.

• 50:57Speaker 03

  And you've taken the spot that could have been mine.

• 50:59Speaker 06

  I have to believe that it's a part of that, which is why I have a lot of empathy for it, because I think, well, this is all part of the culture, being marginalized, is this belief that, like, I'm gonna start to feel insecure if someone like me succeeds and it's not me.

• 51:19Speaker 03

  Did you bring any of that insight into creating Big Mistakes and your character in Big Mistakes?

• 51:26Speaker 06

  No, I, no, I, I just, for me, it's always about, like, tell the story, focus on the story, it's, it's what worked for me on shits. I never thought about the audience, I never thought about other people's expectations. I think the minute a writer's room starts to think about what the audience wants, they lose the plot.

• 51:45Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 51:46Speaker 06

  Because...

• 51:48Speaker 06

  I think a lot of times, what the character wants and needs is not what the audience wants for the character.

• 51:57Speaker 06

  And it's hard to keep the noise out.

• 51:59Speaker 03

  How do you practice that?

• 52:01Speaker 06

  You just have to shut it out and care about the story you're telling. You know what I mean? Like, you know more about the story you're telling than anyone else. You know why a character should do something, or say something, or make the decisions they make. Because it's a guttural, instinctual thing. Like... So for an audience who's like, "Gosh, I really hope they stay together." Sometimes it doesn't benefit the character for them to stay together. It benefits the audience. But if you earn it, that choice... I mean, we made some decisions on Shits that I think went against audience expectations, but I have to believe they were the right decisions.

• 52:38Speaker 03

  Right. It's like, I mean, this is so, so minor, but it's like, when they were looking for David, and I thought he was gonna be in New York. And he was on an Amish farm.

• 52:49Speaker 06

  No, he's too scared to be in New York. He would never have gone that far.

• 52:52Speaker 03

  But I would assume that they were going to New York.

• 52:55Speaker 06

  That's right. No.

• 52:56Speaker 03

  And he's...

• 52:57Speaker 06

  He did not have the savvy to get to New York, unfortunately. Him and his, like, helmet-laying, mohawk hoodie could only get so far.

• 53:06Speaker 03

  Again, they got somewhere.

• 53:09Speaker 06

  They did get somewhere.

• 53:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:10Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 53:11Speaker 03

  Well, I just like, thanks for saying that, because I am working on a show for the first time.

• 53:17Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 53:19Speaker 06

  Oh, wait, you're working with Paul Briganti?

• 53:22Speaker 03

  Don't even put... I love Paul Briganti. Yes!

• 53:24Speaker 06

  Paul is the greatest.

• 53:26Speaker 03

  Of all time!

• 53:27Speaker 06

  I know.

• 53:28Speaker 03

  He's amazing. He's amazing. I met him on a commercial shoot.

• 53:32Speaker 06

  And like, couldn't be nicer, couldn't be more generous of spirit.

• 53:35Speaker 03

  Yes. And he...

• 53:36Speaker 06

  Such a cheerleader and a champion for like, ideas that he loves. Yeah.

• 53:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, and he... The way we got to making the show was, I was like, basically very self-deprecating in like, my life and my experience. He was like, "This is so funny, this is a show." And now, my worry is that all I can think about is what people are gonna think of it.

• 53:56Speaker 06

  You can't.

• 53:56Speaker 03

  I know. And so you just saying that just now...

• 53:59Speaker 06

  Here's the key. You gotta come out of the experience with closure. And the only way you can win is if you do, if you make exactly what you want to make. Because at the end of the day, if people don't like it, fine. But the biggest heartbreak is if you compromise your idea and dilute it to the point where it's accessible to people, or you've made concessions for whoever's making it. Like, you can't get that back. You can't get the idea of like, when you put your head on your pillow at night, the show has to be exactly what you want to make it, like what you want it to be.

• 54:41Speaker 06

  Otherwise, you're gonna go to bed and think, gosh, if I had only held out, if I had only fought more, maybe it would have been different. You gotta like, fight for the things you believe in, because that's, that's it.

• 54:56Speaker 03

  Right, have you ever had that experience?

• 54:58Speaker 06

  Yeah, of course you have it all the time. I think that's part of making TV. You're, you know, in a creative process with people, they have the things that they want to be worked in, you have the things that you want to be worked in. I also have a real like, I don't like pandering. And I think we're in this, we're in a culture now where like, nobody has faith in the audience. Everyone believes that we are like, on four different screens, and maybe we are. I don't want to make TV for someone who's not watching my show.

• 55:33Speaker 03

  Right.

• 55:34Speaker 06

  I want to make TV that makes me feel good and makes me laugh, because there, again, there's closure.

• 55:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:42Speaker 06

  You've made the thing you want to make, great. If it works, if it doesn't work, that is outside of the world of you making the show you want to make. So, shut the doors and make sure that the show that you're making right now is exactly what you want to make. Because, opinions aside, that's all you have at the end of the day.

• 56:02Speaker 03

  I know, I think for me, the, what I get scared about is, because I came up on the internet.

• 56:10Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 56:10Speaker 03

  And, and like, cancel culture is so like...

• 56:17Speaker 03

  Like, like pariah based, that like, I'm so scared that if someone hates what I do, and that they hate something I've said, or hate something I do, that I will lose my whole job. And I'll lose everything. And so that's why I constantly think about like, the audience is because I'm like, well, number one, I care if they like it, because I care if people like me. And number two is, I'm scared if they don't like it, and they don't like it enough, that I'll get in trouble. And I'll lose everything.

• 56:48Speaker 06

  Well, I, I, I appreciate your thought processes. It is practically impossible that that would be the case. You will never lose your job. You're too good at your job to lose your job. It's about protecting your idea. People like what they don't know that they want. Think about anything that's broken in culture. You could not have predicted it. There's no algorithmic, sort of math equation that could have led to any of the things we have come to really, really love. I've been there. I know exactly what you're talking about.

• 57:25Speaker 03

  You do?

• 57:25Speaker 06

  The threat of like, losing what you have by making some kind of mistake, is an illusion.

• 57:34Speaker 03

  You think so?

• 57:34Speaker 06

  I think so. Because I think if you actually believed that, you would be pedestalizing your ego in a way that is unhealthy.

• 57:43Speaker 03

  Okay, so I'm a little stupid. So what do you mean by pedestalizing your ego?

• 57:47Speaker 06

  Like, meaning, I don't even know what that means. I was just like, I mean, no, I do. You would be prioritizing your, you would be putting your ego on a pedestal. Being like, I care about what people think of me. I care about this being a success. I ca- All of those things are fine, but they can't be what drives you through this show.

• 58:05Speaker 03

  Right.

• 58:06Speaker 06

  Again, everything that I have loved has been an anomaly, including my own show.

• 58:12Speaker 03

  Right.

• 58:13Speaker 06

  Nobody in America wanted to make Schitt's Creek. We took it out to every network, every streaming service. No, no, no, no, across the board.

• 58:22Speaker 03

  Even with Catherine attached?

• 58:24Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 58:25Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 58:25Speaker 06

  Nobody wanted to make it. So we made it on our own up in Canada, with no intervention of create a people's, well, the first 10 seconds have to be really, really action packed, because you have to rope your audience in. We were free. And all we did was make a show we wanted to watch and wanted to be a part of. That's it. You can't control anything outside of that. And it worked. And now people are wanting to make, what's the next Schitt's Creek?

• 58:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:56Speaker 06

  It's not about what the next Schitt's Creek is. It's about prioritizing people whose ideas are good. And not being scared that they're not mainstream enough for an audience to understand. Let the audience catch up. Because the act of an audience playing catch up with something you're making, only builds stronger ties to the thing that you're making.

• 59:18Speaker 03

  It's just like, I feel like all goes back to, like if you believe in something and you believe it's good, and you don't seem, don't seem bothered by other opinions.

• 59:29Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 59:30Speaker 03

  People are, it's like, I always relate it to, when you find someone annoying, you meet someone and you're like, this person is so annoying. And then you're with them for like a few days. And then the next day, they're still annoying, but they're still doing the thing that annoyed you, but they haven't changed, like they haven't changed, based on the fact that you think they're annoying. So then you start to respect them, and then you start to appreciate them.

• 59:52Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 59:52Speaker 03

  And like, that's how I feel it is with culture and people in culture.

• 59:56Speaker 06

  Yeah. You have to just know that you made the show you want to make. That's it. That's it.

• 1:00:04Speaker 03

  Well, thank you for that.

• 1:00:06Speaker 06

  Tooth and nail to make sure that you preserve whatever it is you want to make.

• 1:00:11Speaker 03

  I will.

• 1:00:11Speaker 06

  And there is, there should be a line that you draw, in terms of if someone says, well, what about, could we just? You have to know where the line is.

• 1:00:20Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:00:20Speaker 06

  Because once you cross that line, it doesn't become your show anymore. You're making something else.

• 1:00:24Speaker 03

  For other, for not myself.

• 1:00:26Speaker 06

  Who knows?

• 1:00:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:27Speaker 06

  Who, I don't even think they know.

• 1:00:28Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:00:29Speaker 06

  They're making television for an audience that nobody, I mean, no one could have seen Heated Rivalry coming.

• 1:00:34Speaker 03

  Right, and that, another Canada.

• 1:00:36Speaker 06

  Think about that pitch.

• 1:00:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:39Speaker 06

  And now everyone's like, uh, gay butt kissing.

• 1:00:43Speaker 03

  Right, right, right.

• 1:00:44Speaker 06

  It's not about that.

• 1:00:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:46Speaker 06

  It was the idea. And the idea was not something that anyone wanted to make outside of Canada.

• 1:00:52Speaker 03

  Canada's always with it.

• 1:00:53Speaker 06

  Well, they, because it's a smaller market, you can take risks.

• 1:00:59Speaker 03

  You grew up in Canada, right? Toronto.

• 1:01:01Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:01:01Speaker 03

  Do you, do you miss it?

• 1:01:03Speaker 06

  I do miss it. I was just back there.

• 1:01:04Speaker 03

  It's wonderful.

• 1:01:05Speaker 06

  I saw you wearing a

• 1:01:06Speaker 03

  Maple Leafs.

• 1:01:07Speaker 06

  Maple Leafs jersey.

• 1:01:08Speaker 03

  We were, uh,

• 1:01:09Speaker 06

  Where, how did?

• 1:01:10Speaker 03

  We, I was, we was filming something and they brought all the cast to

• 1:01:15Speaker 06

  A Maple Leafs game.

• 1:01:15Speaker 03

  Maple Leafs game during the blizzard. Like, do you remember the blizzard that just happened? So it was like, oh my God, it was like, honestly, like, looking back at it, one of the best times of my life. Like, we were like, walking outside in this blizzard to this Maple Leafs game. I felt like I was in heated rivalry. And then, like, I was, like, talking to this guy, I'm so male-centered. So the fact that I was, like, in conversation with the guy while this was all happening.

• 1:01:36Speaker 06

  Oh, wow, bliss.

• 1:01:37Speaker 03

  Was bliss.

• 1:01:37Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:01:38Speaker 03

  It was bliss.

• 1:01:39Speaker 06

  Bliss.

• 1:01:39Speaker 03

  And I love Canada. I love everyone. So nice there, Tim Hortons.

• 1:01:42Speaker 06

  Tim Hortons. Cruelers.

• 1:01:45Speaker 03

  What?

• 1:01:45Speaker 06

  Crueler?

• 1:01:46Speaker 03

  What's that?

• 1:01:47Speaker 06

  It's a donut.

• 1:01:48Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:01:48Speaker 06

  It's like a twisted, sort of, uh, how do you describe a cruler? It's like a twisted donut, but it has a different consistency.

• 1:01:56Speaker 03

  You Canadian too? Well, you know, I love Canada.

• 1:01:58Speaker 06

  Honorarily, I guess, now.

• 1:02:00Speaker 03

  Canada is the best. The food's great, people are great.

• 1:02:03Speaker 06

  Yeah, Toronto's great.

• 1:02:04Speaker 03

  Toronto's great. It's where they went in The Handmaid's Tale when everyone was being held captive here.

• 1:02:08Speaker 06

  That is right.

• 1:02:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:09Speaker 06

  A haven.

• 1:02:09Speaker 03

  It was, it's, Canada is a safe haven.

• 1:02:15Speaker 03

  This episode of Therapist is brought to you by Booking.com. Booking dot

• 1:02:21Speaker 03

  Well, as I said in SeatGeek, it is festival season, which means you might be traveling. It is also summer, so you are hopefully traveling if you are able to. And Booking.com makes traveling as easy as possible. It makes the basis of your trip, which is finding a place to stay and finding a place to sleep, easy. Especially if you are traveling with a group, everybody has different preferences. Like, some may want a pool, some may want walking distance, some may want a tub, some may want a shower. And you could put all that in on Booking.com. will help you find the perfect place or hotel for your stay. It also can help you like fully round out your trip. If you need to rent a car, like whatever you need, booking.com has it. As I've said a million and one times, it has really helped my travels. I know me and my friends are planning, planning summer trips right now.

• 1:03:05Speaker 03

  And we are using booking.com because we are all very particular in where we like to stay and what we need. And I've said this before, but when I was on tour, Matt would literally like we'd pull up to a city and Matt would book it on booking.com. He would have our preferences, find a hotel and book it. And it really just like takes away that anxiety from exploring a new place. So it like almost allows you to fully immerse yourself into where you're going. Because you don't need to worry about where you're staying because booking.com has it covered. Find exactly what you're booking for at booking.com. Booking dot. Book today on the site or in the app.

• 1:03:41Speaker 03

  Dan, what are you therapist about today?

• 1:03:43Speaker 06

  I believe there should be one flight a day.

• 1:03:49Speaker 06

  That does not have children on it.

• 1:03:54Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so like, what do you mean by that?

• 1:03:58Speaker 06

  Please don't.

• 1:03:59Speaker 03

  No, I, I agree. I agree. I see you.

• 1:04:02Speaker 06

  Listen, I love children. I would just, I, I think, and this has, I understand the plight of, of parents with young kids. My sister has a three year old, totally understand not being lacking in empathy for parents. I think there should just be one.

• 1:04:20Speaker 03

  We matter too.

• 1:04:20Speaker 06

  Flight a day.

• 1:04:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:22Speaker 06

  Where if you are spending your hard earned money on an airline seat, that you don't have a screaming baby beside you. I'm not saying take them off the airplanes. I'm simply saying, or even one a week. I'll take one a week. Give me.

• 1:04:38Speaker 03

  I preferred your one a day.

• 1:04:39Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 1:04:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:40Speaker 06

  But like the concept of having.

• 1:04:44Speaker 06

  And this is, again, I feel like people are so, this is a real hot button issue.

• 1:04:48Speaker 03

  Oh, believe me, I know.

• 1:04:50Speaker 06

  So let me preface that, or I guess I've already said it.

• 1:04:54Speaker 06

  I love children.

• 1:04:58Speaker 06

  Give me one flight.

• 1:04:59Speaker 03

  One flight. I mean, I was on a flight-

• 1:05:00Speaker 06

  Especially a long haul. If it's an overnight, and you're spending the big money-

• 1:05:04Speaker 03

  And they're screaming.

• 1:05:05Speaker 06

  And all you want to do is sleep, or you're on a red eye.

• 1:05:08Speaker 03

  And my thing was, I flew Saturday morning from New York to LA. And I, when I have a morning flight-

• 1:05:15Speaker 06

  I'm doing that tonight. I'm on a red eye to New York tonight.

• 1:05:19Speaker 03

  Well, I don't sleep before, like, my morning flights. Like, if I, if I have, I had a-

• 1:05:23Speaker 06

  Of course, because you have to, the anxiety of getting up.

• 1:05:25Speaker 03

  Yes. Yes.

• 1:05:27Speaker 06

  It's the anxiety of getting up.

• 1:05:28Speaker 03

  And I was out all night, and I was like, you know what?

• 1:05:30Speaker 06

  Well, that's where we differ, but I understand the anxiety.

• 1:05:32Speaker 03

  I was shaking back and forth in my apartment, like, desperately trying to keep my eyes open, because I was so tired, but I knew that if I closed my eyes, I wouldn't get up.

• 1:05:40Speaker 06

  Well, there's also nothing more terrifying than missing a flight.

• 1:05:42Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:05:43Speaker 06

  Or running through an airport.

• 1:05:44Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:05:44Speaker 06

  I wish it on nobody.

• 1:05:46Speaker 03

  Um, hey, so the airports right now are-

• 1:05:49Speaker 06

  Hell.

• 1:05:50Speaker 03

  I get to JFK at 8:00 AM.

• 1:05:52Speaker 06

  What time's your flight?

• 1:05:53Speaker 03

  8:00 AM. People with, people with kids, like, "Please let me through." I'm like, "Oh, my God."

• 1:05:59Speaker 06

  Oh, no, it is-

• 1:06:00Speaker 03

  I feel like I'm in, like, they're trying to get into the bunker.

• 1:06:02Speaker 06

  End of times, end of days.

• 1:06:04Speaker 03

  It literally felt like the end of times.

• 1:06:05Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:06Speaker 03

  But-

• 1:06:07Speaker 06

  It's Hunger Games.

• 1:06:08Speaker 03

  It is Hunger Games, but I got on the flight, and finally, I'm like, I haven't slept. I had the Paul McCartney show that night, and I was like, "I need to be, I need to sleep this entire flight so I can fully experience and not be tired." I closed my eyes, screaming, baby.

• 1:06:20Speaker 06

  That's it.

• 1:06:22Speaker 03

  Screaming, baby. And I said, "Why?"

• 1:06:24Speaker 06

  I, at one point, had a child doing this on the chair.

• 1:06:29Speaker 03

  Well, that's just disrespectful from the parent. Tell them stop.

• 1:06:31Speaker 06

  The parents were sitting right beside me, and I'm now looking at this kid, looking at the parents, looking back to the kid, looking back to the parents, and finally, I just said,

• 1:06:41Speaker 06

  "Are you gonna do something?" I feel, I mean, I feel great about everyone having kids. I do not want them for myself.

• 1:06:48Speaker 03

  I don't know if I do. If I do, I do want two, a boy and a girl.

• 1:06:51Speaker 06

  Oh, wow, you're really committing to it.

• 1:06:53Speaker 03

  Yes, the Adore and Annabelle.

• 1:06:56Speaker 06

  We've predetermined the names.

• 1:06:57Speaker 03

  Theo, for short, and Anna, Anna. My friend's name, growing up, one of my best friend's names was Anna, Annabelle, and we would call her Anna B.

• 1:07:05Speaker 06

  Oh, that's cute.

• 1:07:06Speaker 03

  And I thought it was so chic.

• 1:07:07Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:07:07Speaker 03

  And Theodore just feels like a Kennedy name.

• 1:07:10Speaker 06

  Right. So you're raising royalty?

• 1:07:13Speaker 03

  That's what I hope to do, yes.

• 1:07:15Speaker 06

  Okay, understood.

• 1:07:16Speaker 03

  Okay, so, I don't know if you've seen this show before, but we do a section called Tell Me What's Wrongs, where the pussies submit questions and we give them advice.

• 1:07:26Speaker 06

  Great.

• 1:07:26Speaker 03

  Are you down for that?

• 1:07:27Speaker 06

  Absolutely.

• 1:07:28Speaker 03

  My girlfriend is totally out of my league, and it's finally starting to catch up to me. We've been dating for 15 months now, and I think she's starting to notice that she could do a lot better looks-wise. Help. I know it's like a, you just have to have confidence, blah, blah, blah. I don't want to hear that. I need active steps to prevent a breakup.

• 1:07:45Speaker 06

  Wow. Well...

• 1:07:47Speaker 03

  That was honest.

• 1:07:48Speaker 06

  That was honest, and he, from an outsider's perspective, if your partner is starting to realize that they're better looking than you, and that is, to them, a form of currency, I hate to break it, but it's not the right fit. I don't want that from a partner. I don't want to be in a relationship where, that's fear-based.

• 1:08:09Speaker 03

  I think that whoever this person is, their, their lack of confidence is making them see things that are possibly not there.

• 1:08:17Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 1:08:18Speaker 03

  Is what I think. And then maybe, those are, like, sometimes I've had to reconcile with the fact that I'm having these fears because those are my values.

• 1:08:29Speaker 06

  Real.

• 1:08:30Speaker 03

  You know what I mean? I'm like, I've been like, well, this person's gonna leave me because I'm not attractive enough, and then I'm like, but they've never said that or showed that to me. I'm thinking that because, would I do that? Do you know what I mean?

• 1:08:43Speaker 06

  So what are your steps for this person, then?

• 1:08:46Speaker 03

  Help.

• 1:08:47Speaker 06

  What kind of help?

• 1:08:48Speaker 03

  Just help.

• 1:08:51Speaker 06

  Like, just general help?

• 1:08:53Speaker 03

  Just help.

• 1:08:54Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 1:08:54Speaker 03

  Like, sit with what, like, what I just sat with. I would journal.

• 1:08:59Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:09:00Speaker 03

  And honestly-

• 1:09:00Speaker 06

  And really determine whether it's in your head or a real-life thing.

• 1:09:04Speaker 03

  It's just a little awkward, because this person can't go to their partner and be like, "Do you think I'm ugly?" I would actually really start to note, but they can smell it off of you. They can smell insecurity.

• 1:09:15Speaker 06

  My best friend gave me the greatest piece of relationship advice. That changed my whole life, and it's very simple. And he asked me one question. I was in one of many toxic relationships. And he said, "Would this person run to you?"

• 1:09:30Speaker 03

  In what?

• 1:09:31Speaker 06

  Doesn't matter. Not walk, run. Would this person run to you? Because if they wouldn't, then they're not right.

• 1:09:41Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:09:42Speaker 06

  I think that sums it right up. And it is the just, he's just not that into you theory. I think we all know what we're dealing with, deep down. And you can fight and fight and fight and fight for somebody that you're trying to win. But if that's the dynamic, you've lost.

• 1:09:59Speaker 03

  Because then, once you win, then you're unhappy with that.

• 1:10:01Speaker 06

  Find the person that will run to you. And it's hard to accept that, because so often, we date people who wouldn't, and hope that we can change them.

• 1:10:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. You can.

• 1:10:14Speaker 06

  But it's tough.

• 1:10:16Speaker 03

  You know what I prescribe?

• 1:10:17Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:10:18Speaker 03

  You know the song "Old Money" by Lana Del Rey?

• 1:10:20Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:10:20Speaker 03

  Where she says, "I'll run to you, I'll run to you, I'll run." I prescribe that. Are you a Lana fan?

• 1:10:29Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:10:30Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. How excited are you for the new album?

• 1:10:32Speaker 06

  I'm excited for every new album. Again, a singular voice. She's not pandering to an audience.

• 1:10:38Speaker 03

  Ever, never.

• 1:10:39Speaker 06

  Ever.

• 1:10:40Speaker 03

  She created a whole genre.

• 1:10:42Speaker 06

  And she has a, she, she's carved her own path.

• 1:10:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:47Speaker 06

  And that's why we love her.

• 1:10:48Speaker 03

  I mean, I think some younger people today don't really realize the heat she took when Born to Die came out.

• 1:10:54Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:10:55Speaker 03

  It was like enemy number one.

• 1:10:57Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:10:58Speaker 03

  Like she was enemy number one.

• 1:10:59Speaker 06

  Yeah, it is a legacy that has made open windows and doors for so many people.

• 1:11:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:05Speaker 06

  She doesn't care.

• 1:11:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, I prescribed Lana Del Rey.

• 1:11:07Speaker 06

  Okay, great.

• 1:11:08Speaker 03

  I took too many edibles with this really hot guy I'm trying to cuff and ended up greening out all over the inside of his car like projectile vomiting. Sad face. How do I get out of the vomit zone with him? IDK what to do. He was expectedly very grossed out. And unfortunately, I don't know if there's a comeback from that.

• 1:11:27Speaker 06

  Here's what's tough for me. I have a real tough time with smells.

• 1:11:32Speaker 03

  Oh, my God, me too.

• 1:11:34Speaker 06

  And the minute you assign a smell to a person, it's over.

• 1:11:37Speaker 03

  It's over. Whether that breath being bad, whether that be a fart.

• 1:11:41Speaker 06

  It's exactly it.

• 1:11:41Speaker 03

  It's over and I'm sorry and I, I, I could not agree with you more. I've struggled with that since I was a kid.

• 1:11:47Speaker 06

  So let's just hope that the partner has not assigned that smell to this person.

• 1:11:52Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:11:53Speaker 06

  I think that's the only way that they can get through it.

• 1:11:55Speaker 03

  I, you know, I actually have found a new scent recently.

• 1:11:59Speaker 06

  Do tell.

• 1:11:59Speaker 03

  It is called Another Thirteen from Le Labo.

• 1:12:03Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 1:12:03Speaker 03

  And then they also have this new one all.

• 1:12:06Speaker 06

  Did you, when you were in Kyoto, did you get the Le Labo Kyoto exclusive?

• 1:12:11Speaker 03

  What?

• 1:12:12Speaker 06

  So Le Labo has a, Le Labo has a Kyoto, as they do also have a Tokyo, um, exclusive scent.

• 1:12:22Speaker 03

  I have to go back to Japan.

• 1:12:23Speaker 06

  You have to go back to Japan.

• 1:12:24Speaker 03

  Me and my best friend Alice were like, I think we fucked up.

• 1:12:28Speaker 06

  I have a real great itinerary that I can lay out.

• 1:12:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, that would've.

• 1:12:31Speaker 06

  But they have a, Le Labo's great.

• 1:12:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, Le Labo, yeah, but so I've been using Another Thirteen. I've also been using, I'll send it to you, this new perfume. It's their newest scent. It's unbelievable. It starts with an L.

• 1:12:40Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 1:12:41Speaker 03

  It's called Levant. It's unbelievable.

• 1:12:44Speaker 06

  Someone brought me back the Tokyo La Labo.

• 1:12:48Speaker 03

  And is it?

• 1:12:48Speaker 06

  It's called Gaic.

• 1:12:49Speaker 03

  Gaic?

• 1:12:50Speaker 06

  G A I C.

• 1:12:52Speaker 03

  Oh, got it, got it, got it.

• 1:12:54Speaker 06

  Not G A Y dash I C K.

• 1:12:57Speaker 03

  I thought you said gaying.

• 1:12:58Speaker 06

  That would be, that's tough. That's a PR nightmare, but no, uh, yeah. I've been using Molecule.

• 1:13:04Speaker 03

  What's Molecule?

• 1:13:05Speaker 06

  Molecule One.

• 1:13:06Speaker 03

  Is that La Labo?

• 1:13:07Speaker 06

  No, it's its own thing and it's like, it doesn't smell like anything, but it mixes with your pheromones and the like people who... So it's, it changes with everybody who wears it.

• 1:13:18Speaker 03

  So it makes you fuckable?

• 1:13:19Speaker 06

  God, I hope so.

• 1:13:21Speaker 03

  Okay. Help, is this an ick? I was on my fourth date with this guy and it's been going really well. We were at this bar and it was karaoke night and he had maybe one too many drinks. He got up there to sing Shallow, trying to get me to do it with him. I was so embarrassed and didn't go up, so he just drunkenly sang both parts poorly, very poorly. Do I push through it? I actually think that that is endearing. If I saw, if I was on a date with a guy and he sang both parts privately, like no one else was watching, and I didn't see other people get embarrassed by it as well.

• 1:13:53Speaker 06

  Do you like to karaoke?

• 1:13:54Speaker 03

  I tried the, yeah, yes and no. I'm actually like, the songs I want to karaoke, I don't know well enough. I did, um, It's All Coming Back To Me Now.

• 1:14:02Speaker 06

  Stunning.

• 1:14:03Speaker 03

  And I realized mid-song that I did it.

• 1:14:05Speaker 06

  That there's parts of it you didn't know.

• 1:14:06Speaker 03

  That I was, parts of it I didn't know.

• 1:14:07Speaker 06

  That's a tough.

• 1:14:08Speaker 03

  And there's video of it. And it, um, it was really embarrassing. But yes, I do like karaoke.

• 1:14:14Speaker 06

  I find people who are game for karaoke to be infinitely charming.

• 1:14:18Speaker 03

  Yes, I agree.

• 1:14:20Speaker 06

  It shows a complete ease in the relationship to self. You are open to humiliation and embarrassment.

• 1:14:30Speaker 03

  And that's hot.

• 1:14:30Speaker 06

  I find that incredibly attractive.

• 1:14:32Speaker 03

  That's hot.

• 1:14:33Speaker 06

  For, you, there are people who are like, no, I could never karaoke. Why?

• 1:14:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:14:39Speaker 06

  Why? Let's get into it.

• 1:14:41Speaker 03

  Why do you think?

• 1:14:42Speaker 06

  Why? Because I think they are terrified of breaking the seal of an aesthetic, or a look, or a vibe.

• 1:14:50Speaker 03

  And then like, if that's a partner, do you, are you just an aesthetic to them?

• 1:14:53Speaker 06

  A partner? I could never.

• 1:14:54Speaker 03

  Yeah. What's your karaoke song?

• 1:14:57Speaker 06

  I love a duet, Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, When You Believe.

• 1:15:02Speaker 03

  I love Mariah Carey.

• 1:15:03Speaker 06

  Or One Sweet Day.

• 1:15:05Speaker 03

  Is that the Boys to Men song?

• 1:15:07Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 1:15:07Speaker 03

  And that's the, one of the longest running number ones of all time, right?

• 1:15:10Speaker 06

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:15:11Speaker 03

  I see, and people don't think I know my stuff. I know my stuff.

• 1:15:16Speaker 06

  Well, yeah. I mean, those are two good ones, and then Purple Rain. When I've had a lot to drink.

• 1:15:21Speaker 03

  I think my karaoke song is anything Taylor Swift.

• 1:15:26Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:15:27Speaker 03

  Like, but I, if, if we're belting here, probably Ari, something with Ari. I'm a, I'm a very big Ari girl.

• 1:15:37Speaker 06

  Dangerous Woman is a great karaoke song.

• 1:15:40Speaker 03

  You know what else is a good karaoke song that I've never done, but I know it would be good? needy.

• 1:15:45Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:15:46Speaker 03

  Just because needy is-

• 1:15:47Speaker 06

  That's also the thing about karaoke is, you leave the karaoke room, and instantly think about the songs you should have sang.

• 1:15:55Speaker 03

  Should, I, we should go karaoke.

• 1:15:56Speaker 06

  I would love nothing more.

• 1:15:57Speaker 03

  Should we do that?

• 1:15:58Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:15:58Speaker 03

  Okay. Where are you based? Here in New York?

• 1:16:01Speaker 06

  Here in New York now.

• 1:16:02Speaker 03

  Me as well?

• 1:16:02Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:16:03Speaker 03

  Okay, so you just-

• 1:16:04Speaker 06

  We'll go to a place. We'll go to Koreatown in New York and do a private room.

• 1:16:08Speaker 03

  Yep, done. Private room.

• 1:16:09Speaker 06

  Never public.

• 1:16:10Speaker 03

  Never public. So are we the problem of people, we can't do karaoke public? Cause we just like-

• 1:16:16Speaker 06

  I don't, public is for showboats.

• 1:16:18Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:16:19Speaker 06

  Public are for the people, like, you know what I mean?

• 1:16:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:16:23Speaker 06

  I feel like, go to the Philippines.

• 1:16:25Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:16:25Speaker 06

  If you want public karaoke, cause you will hear voices you have never heard before. Unbelievable.

• 1:16:30Speaker 03

  I mean-

• 1:16:30Speaker 06

  Voices.

• 1:16:31Speaker 03

  Have you ever heard Charisse?

• 1:16:33Speaker 06

  Yeah, of cour- of course. You know the clip of Sharice being pulled onstage with Celine?

• 1:16:38Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:16:39Speaker 06

  I think at one point Sharice was pulled onstage by Celine Dion to finish a song.

• 1:16:45Speaker 03

  And did they do a great job?

• 1:16:47Speaker 06

  Obviously, they did a great job.

• 1:16:48Speaker 03

  I mean, "Pyramid" stands the test of time. That's a karaoke song. "Pyramid" by Sharice. Featuring Aias, of course.

• 1:16:55Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:16:56Speaker 03

  It stands the test of time.

• 1:16:57Speaker 06

  Of course it does.

• 1:16:58Speaker 03

  I know you low-key have beef with European Wax Center. I need to share. One time I was there getting everything done down there and they burned my asshole like so bad, I had to go to the hospital and get it checked out. It was insane. So, safe to say, we have major beef with them and refuse to ever go back. So, my beef with European, I'm so sorry that happened to you, my beef with European Wax Center actually isn't with their services. I actually find their waxers to, have you ever been?

• 1:17:22Speaker 06

  No.

• 1:17:22Speaker 03

  Okay, so I actually find their waxers to be quite lovely. My beef with them is that I think something very wrong is going on there.

• 1:17:28Speaker 06

  But the services are good.

• 1:17:30Speaker 03

  The waxers are lovely.

• 1:17:33Speaker 03

  Do you know if you are, do you know if you are nine minutes late? You're done?

• 1:17:37Speaker 06

  They cut you out of the...

• 1:17:38Speaker 03

  Nine. Why nine?

• 1:17:41Speaker 03

  There's two...

• 1:17:42Speaker 06

  That's kind, I mean, that's a move.

• 1:17:43Speaker 03

  It's very strange.

• 1:17:44Speaker 06

  And honestly, in Los Angeles, everyone is 10 minutes late.

• 1:17:47Speaker 03

  I went to the wrong one. I went to the one in Westwood instead of the one in Santa Monica and I called them and I said, "Oh my god, I'm so sorry." You know, I didn't think European Wax Center was back to back to back to back to back.

• 1:17:54Speaker 06

  Did you have to pay?

• 1:17:55Speaker 03

  No, they, I, I, they, I said, "Oh my god, I'm on the way." They said, "Okay, great, but if you're not, uh, if you get here at 1:09, you're fucked." And I said, "What?" And then I got there and there was two...

• 1:18:05Speaker 06

  That speaks to me.

• 1:18:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, there was two people working the desk and there was one waxer, which I found very confusing. And then when you leave, they say, "Well, you know you can't leave without the serums." And I said...

• 1:18:19Speaker 06

  The serums for the waxed parts?

• 1:18:20Speaker 03

  For ingrown hair. But not only do they have a serum, they have wipes. They have body wash.

• 1:18:25Speaker 06

  For ingrown hairs?

• 1:18:26Speaker 03

  Yes, and, um, it feels like I am just, it feels like lube labeled as ingrown hair serum.

• 1:18:35Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:18:36Speaker 03

  I would, I just would like to say...

• 1:18:37Speaker 06

  I now feel like I need to get a wax.

• 1:18:39Speaker 03

  You should go and get, get back to me. Just get like a, like some, some random part wax and just, but just for the experience of experiencing a European Wax Center.

• 1:18:48Speaker 06

  Vibing out whether it's...

• 1:18:50Speaker 03

  It is very, it's like the backrooms. Something's wrong.

• 1:18:56Speaker 06

  Maybe I need to go for research.

• 1:18:57Speaker 03

  You just do. Go for research.

• 1:18:59Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 1:19:00Speaker 03

  It's very strange there. So I see you.

• 1:19:03Speaker 06

  I once, in a long time ago, used to relax my hair.

• 1:19:07Speaker 03

  What does that mean?

• 1:19:08Speaker 06

  Like, you'd like apply, you'd like apply a chemical treatment and then-

• 1:19:12Speaker 03

  Do you have curly hair?

• 1:19:13Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:19:13Speaker 03

  Oh, I didn't know that.

• 1:19:14Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:16Speaker 03

  Well, it's straight right now.

• 1:19:17Speaker 06

  In old age, it straightened itself out, but like, at the time, I had very frizzy curly hair. And they burned all the way around my scalp.

• 1:19:27Speaker 03

  Well, did you sue?

• 1:19:28Speaker 06

  No, because my place of employment at the time had a working relationship with this salon. And they didn't want to ruffle feathers.

• 1:19:37Speaker 06

  So I just had burnt scalp for, anyway, yeah.

• 1:19:41Speaker 03

  Life is so unfair sometimes.

• 1:19:43Speaker 06

  It's tough.

• 1:19:44Speaker 03

  My girlfriend forgot our anniversary. We've been together for three years and she's always doing shit like this. Never my birthday, not yet at least, but stuff like our friends and my family's, etc. I'm genuinely really upset about it, but I'm trying to keep my cool. How do I react to this in a smart way? I'm far too angry to do anything right now.

• 1:19:59Speaker 06

  Ooh, this is hitting a deep, deep wound for me.

• 1:20:01Speaker 03

  Is it really?

• 1:20:02Speaker 06

  Yeah. Well, I wouldn't call it a wound, I guess. I have no problem if someone forgets my birthday. Nothing. No. No problem.

• 1:20:10Speaker 03

  When is your birthday?

• 1:20:11Speaker 06

  August 9th.

• 1:20:12Speaker 03

  You're a Leo and you're telling me that with a straight face?

• 1:20:15Speaker 06

  I'm a double Leo Scorpio rising.

• 1:20:16Speaker 03

  And you're telling me that you don't give a fuck when somebody forgets your birthday?

• 1:20:20Speaker 06

  No. Because I forget everyone's birthday.

• 1:20:23Speaker 03

  Okay, so you give yourself the same-

• 1:20:24Speaker 06

  I love my friends dearly. I am not a birthday person. I celebrate my birthday every 10 years. I'll throw a big party every 10 years.

• 1:20:33Speaker 03

  That's awesome.

• 1:20:34Speaker 06

  I'll give myself that kind of time in the sun every 10 years. Me turning 43?

• 1:20:42Speaker 03

  I get it.

• 1:20:42Speaker 06

  Really?

• 1:20:43Speaker 03

  Did you like-

• 1:20:43Speaker 06

  Embarrassing!

• 1:20:44Speaker 03

  Do you like your 40s?

• 1:20:47Speaker 06

  Uh, it's been, it's been conflicted.

• 1:20:52Speaker 03

  Did you like your 30s?

• 1:20:54Speaker 06

  Loved my 30s.

• 1:20:54Speaker 03

  That's what everybody says.

• 1:20:56Speaker 06

  The clarity that comes in your 30s is like someone lifts a weight off your shoulders and you can breathe again.

• 1:21:04Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:21:05Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:21:06Speaker 03

  What, like?

• 1:21:07Speaker 06

  You stop caring and also you start to see your friendships for whether they are valuable or not. The minute I turned 30, I looked around and was like, this person's not making me feel good.

• 1:21:21Speaker 03

  And then that was it?

• 1:21:22Speaker 06

  Every time I see them, there's something, I walk away feeling weird.

• 1:21:27Speaker 03

  Wow, people love their 30s. I didn't know in Sex, I didn't know in Sex and the City, Miss Carrie Brown, they were all 30.

• 1:21:35Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 1:21:35Speaker 03

  I never, I've never.

• 1:21:36Speaker 06

  You want to talk about like feeling fucked up? Watching like Bridget Jones's diary and she's much younger than me, like that's a head fuck.

• 1:21:46Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:21:47Speaker 06

  You, it, you, I, you feel like a dinosaur when you say like, I still feel like nothing has changed, like, I don't know what 43 is. I don't feel 43, but what is 43? I don't know.

• 1:22:00Speaker 03

  I don't know either.

• 1:22:00Speaker 06

  Now I guess it's different.

• 1:22:03Speaker 03

  Did you?

• 1:22:04Speaker 06

  I'm this, it's the same brain as when I was in my twenties.

• 1:22:08Speaker 03

  Ah, isn't that scary?

• 1:22:08Speaker 06

  Just like, I care less.

• 1:22:11Speaker 03

  Did you go through a Saturn return?

• 1:22:12Speaker 06

  A Saturn return is ultimately just aging.

• 1:22:15Speaker 03

  But we have to believe.

• 1:22:16Speaker 06

  I will put everything into the stars.

• 1:22:19Speaker 03

  Are you in, are you in, so you're not into astrology?

• 1:22:20Speaker 06

  No. But I'll believe any, it's, I'm, yeah, I'll believe whatever anyone tells me. And double Leo Scorpio rising is hell.

• 1:22:29Speaker 03

  That is crazy. Well, I'm a Scorpio double Gemini. Yeah, bad, really bad.

• 1:22:33Speaker 06

  I say wow as if I really know, but I do know that Gemini's tough.

• 1:22:36Speaker 03

  You Geminis are tough. I think my roommate has a kink for public sex. Whenever she brings a guy home, she always leaves her bedroom door open or is extremely loud. Our walls are thin and we live in a tiny NYC apartment. What do I do?

• 1:22:48Speaker 06

  Leaving your door open while you're having sex when you have a roommate is fucking wild.

• 1:22:53Speaker 03

  I think you're right on the fact that she does have the kink and she wants you to hear.

• 1:22:56Speaker 06

  Absolutely. There's something going on there. It's deliberate, for sure.

• 1:23:02Speaker 06

  Oh, I would be the, I was, I, I, I've lived on my own for a long time. And that's because of, I mean, I've never had that kind of situation, but I'm radically honest.

• 1:23:13Speaker 03

  You're good at confrontation?

• 1:23:15Speaker 06

  Yeah, I don't need to hear you moaning in your bed with your boyfriend. Shut the door.

• 1:23:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:23:20Speaker 06

  And, and actually, while we're at it, do you have to be so loud?

• 1:23:23Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:23:24Speaker 06

  I'm watching TV.

• 1:23:25Speaker 03

  Right. So just an honest conversation?

• 1:23:29Speaker 06

  It's begging for an honest conversation.

• 1:23:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, she wants you to have the

• 1:23:32Speaker 06

  She wants you to have the conversation.

• 1:23:35Speaker 03

  I'm trying to think if there's like a show.

• 1:23:36Speaker 06

  What a wild move.

• 1:23:37Speaker 03

  Isn't that, isn't that crazy? It reminds me of like, in Bridesmaids, when Rebel Wilson's character is like always doing wacky shit at home. You know what I mean? And Kristen Wiig has to be like, what the fuck is going on?

• 1:23:49Speaker 06

  Unless she's just one of those people that like genuinely doesn't

• 1:23:52Speaker 03

  Give a fuck?

• 1:23:53Speaker 06

  Think about other people.

• 1:23:55Speaker 03

  It could be that. Well, then you might need to move out at the end of your lease.

• 1:23:59Speaker 06

  Unless you like it.

• 1:24:00Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:24:05Speaker 06

  Maybe she

• 1:24:05Speaker 03

  They might.

• 1:24:06Speaker 06

  If you like it.

• 1:24:07Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:24:08Speaker 06

  I've heard people having sex and I've been like, okay. Great.

• 1:24:12Speaker 03

  I've been in hotel rooms and I've been like,

• 1:24:14Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:24:14Speaker 03

  Sounds like they're having fun.

• 1:24:16Speaker 06

  Yeah, they sound hot.

• 1:24:17Speaker 03

  It sounds hot and steamy and it sounds like they're having fun.

• 1:24:19Speaker 06

  Absolutely.

• 1:24:20Speaker 03

  And that's human.

• 1:24:22Speaker 06

  So now I actually almost take it back. It depends on who's having sex.

• 1:24:25Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:24:26Speaker 06

  It depends on who it is. If your roommate's good looking and their partner's really, I mean, not that looks are matter, but in this case it kind of does.

• 1:24:31Speaker 03

  It, it, it does.

• 1:24:32Speaker 06

  Let me fantasize in that case, if you're gonna leave your door open.

• 1:24:35Speaker 03

  Exactly. But yes, they do have a kink and you should probably say something. Every single dating app is literally hell on earth. I match with the most unhinged horny gross losers that all just want to come over and hook up with me and then never talk to me again. Even if there's a date involved, I know that's still the end game. What are better alternative ways to get myself out there?

• 1:24:52Speaker 06

  I wish I could say

• 1:24:54Speaker 03

  I have no answer.

• 1:24:54Speaker 06

  Meet someone in person.

• 1:24:56Speaker 03

  That doesn't

• 1:24:57Speaker 06

  But we're all so conditioned to not do that, that I don't.

• 1:25:00Speaker 03

  You gotta just have to have faith in a higher power that something will fall in your lap.

• 1:25:04Speaker 06

  I definitely went through phases where I would get so bored by the apps and so sort of disheartened that I would stop. And then I would go back. You kind of have to assume that it's one in a thousand.

• 1:25:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:17Speaker 06

  And that's being generous.

• 1:25:18Speaker 03

  Yeah. You just like-

• 1:25:20Speaker 06

  You have to go in being like, "One in a thousand will pique my interest."

• 1:25:23Speaker 03

  Also, like, if you don't do it, you're not gonna find the one. Like, you have to kiss a few frogs.

• 1:25:29Speaker 06

  Hundred percent.

• 1:25:31Speaker 03

  To find your prince. You have to. It's just, it's just how life works. And you don't, and you know, if, yeah, I don't know.

• 1:25:39Speaker 06

  I would, yeah. I wish we could go back. I do think there is nothing more romantic than meeting someone in real life and having a connection.

• 1:25:49Speaker 03

  It's beautiful. I just found out I'm narcoleptic at, at age twenty-eight. For years, my family and friends just thought I was lazy, uninterested, etc. Ooh, wow. I always felt driven and motivated, but I cannot stay awake during the day for the life of me. This is how I feel. I was talking to a doctor randomly, and he was like, "Yeah, dude, that's narcolepsy." Now I have all this medicine and stimulants I need to take, FML. So what do you need help with?

• 1:26:14Speaker 06

  Is that his question?

• 1:26:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's, that's it.

• 1:26:17Speaker 06

  He doesn't, he's just telling us that he's narcoleptic?

• 1:26:20Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:26:21Speaker 06

  As someone who doesn't sleep that much, it sounds kinda great.

• 1:26:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:26Speaker 06

  I, it, I, I've had such a horrible sleep schedule.

• 1:26:30Speaker 03

  Have you really?

• 1:26:31Speaker 06

  Like horrible.

• 1:26:31Speaker 03

  How many hours you get a night?

• 1:26:32Speaker 06

  But, it depends.

• 1:26:33Speaker 03

  How many hours you get last night?

• 1:26:35Speaker 06

  Six.

• 1:26:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, you feel well-rested. You feel-

• 1:26:40Speaker 06

  I love that in twenty twenty-six, six hours of sleep is like, you're winning.

• 1:26:44Speaker 03

  No, you are. Do you have an eight-sleep?

• 1:26:46Speaker 06

  A what?

• 1:26:47Speaker 03

  Oh, Dan. It tracks your sleep, your snoring, your REM.

• 1:26:51Speaker 06

  I, I don't know if I can deal with that level of confrontation at this point.

• 1:26:54Speaker 03

  Yep, I got that. I understand.

• 1:26:57Speaker 06

  I've been falling asleep to, I've been falling asleep to different sounds. Um, because I think when you're traveling a lot, it's nice to have a consistent thing to listen to. And my therapist recommended this, like, erotic sleep app.

• 1:27:13Speaker 03

  Shut up.

• 1:27:14Speaker 06

  The sub-chapter in this sleep app is you falling asleep in different people's places.

• 1:27:22Speaker 03

  Will you send this to me?

• 1:27:23Speaker 06

  Yeah. So I've been falling asleep to, like, Marcel's cabin in the woods. And it's like, someone typing at their computer, and you're, like, lying down with, with, like, the rain falling outside.

• 1:27:37Speaker 03

  So you literally pretend like you have a boyfriend?

• 1:27:39Speaker 06

  A little bit.

• 1:27:40Speaker 03

  Send this my way.

• 1:27:42Speaker 06

  It's the joy of like, it's like when you're a kid, not to sort of conflate this light erotic app with like my own childhood, but it's like when you fall asleep knowing that your parents are like moving around. There's like a comfort of knowing that someone is awake.

• 1:28:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm gonna have you send this to me.

• 1:28:02Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 1:28:03Speaker 03

  And I'm gonna try it tonight.

• 1:28:03Speaker 06

  But now as an adult, it has like a kind of erotic twist to it and someone will like talk to you for the first two minutes.

• 1:28:09Speaker 03

  Like say what?

• 1:28:10Speaker 06

  Say like, I'm trying to remember, but it's like, you can like choose like a Scottish voice who's gonna talk to you and say like, you've had a really rough day, like take a sleep, take a nap.

• 1:28:22Speaker 03

  Shut up.

• 1:28:23Speaker 06

  I'm gonna like.

• 1:28:24Speaker 03

  What is this app called?

• 1:28:24Speaker 06

  I'm gonna like paint and you'll hear them like painting.

• 1:28:28Speaker 03

  What is this called?

• 1:28:29Speaker 06

  I can't remember. I'll get you, I'll get you as soon as this is done.

• 1:28:31Speaker 03

  Okay. Well, that was the last tell me what's wrong.

• 1:28:34Speaker 06

  Great. Well.

• 1:28:35Speaker 03

  Dan, what did we learn today?

• 1:28:39Speaker 06

  We learned so much.

• 1:28:40Speaker 03

  Dan, I really feel so grateful to have spoken to you today.

• 1:28:43Speaker 06

  Likewise. What a spiritual conversation.

• 1:28:45Speaker 03

  That was really beautiful. I really took in what you had to say.

• 1:28:49Speaker 06

  Good.

• 1:28:50Speaker 03

  I learned.

• 1:28:51Speaker 06

  And like as you make this show, I'll give you my contact information.

• 1:28:54Speaker 03

  Please.

• 1:28:54Speaker 06

  I would be more than happy to be a sounding board if you ever need anybody.

• 1:28:59Speaker 03

  Well, that was some of the best advice I've gotten so far ever. So I really, really appreciate it.

• 1:29:04Speaker 06

  Thank you so much for having me.

• 1:29:05Speaker 03

  Thank you for being here. What did you learn today?

• 1:29:07Speaker 06

  It's okay to call out a lie.

• 1:29:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:10Speaker 06

  In front of someone you've just sort of spent time with.

• 1:29:12Speaker 03

  Yes, it is okay.

• 1:29:14Speaker 06

  And it's, you gotta call it.

• 1:29:16Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:29:17Speaker 06

  There was something in me that like had to proclaim I lied to you.

• 1:29:20Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:29:21Speaker 06

  And I felt better.

• 1:29:22Speaker 03

  And, and no one cares.

• 1:29:24Speaker 06

  And I felt very comforted by this conversation in a variety of ways.

• 1:29:26Speaker 03

  Me too. I feel I'm leaving this feeling amazing.

• 1:29:29Speaker 06

  Bye pussies.

• 1:29:46Speaker 00

  Ugh, I hate Mondays.

• 1:29:48Speaker 01

  King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Swirl Bite?

• 1:29:49Speaker 00

  Uh, Taylor Hansen? Sure, I'll try one. Mmm.

• 1:29:55Speaker 01

  Hey, let's get back to work, please.

• 1:29:56Speaker 00

  But Taylor Hansen's making my day way better with these new soft and swirly King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Bites.

• 1:30:01Speaker 01

  Taylor Hansen? Nice. Try one. Mmm.

• 1:30:08Speaker 00

  King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Bites. There's nothing like it.