Pod Insights Therapuss with Jake Shane Session 115: Dan Levy About this episode I don't even think I know my Netflix password...
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Transcript 16,768 words · 7 speakers
0:00 Speaker 00 Ugh, I hate Mondays.
0:01 Speaker 01 King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Swirl Bite?
0:03 Speaker 00 Uh, Taylor Hansen? Sure, I'll try one. Mmm.
0:09 Speaker 02 Hey, let's get back to work, please.
0:10 Speaker 00 But Taylor Hansen's making my day way better with these new soft and swirly King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Bites.
0:15 Speaker 02 Taylor Hansen? Nice.
0:17 Speaker 01 Try one.
0:18 Speaker 02 Mmm.
0:22 Speaker 02 King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Bites. There's nothing like it.
0:42 Speaker 03 Okay, Alice is here.
0:44 Speaker 04 Hey, everyone.
0:45 Speaker 03 Alice and I just got back from Japan together.
0:48 Speaker 04 We did. I don't think we're fully recovered yet.
0:51 Speaker 03 In what sense do you mean?
0:52 Speaker 04 You know, we like didn't really do it right.
0:55 Speaker 03 At all?
0:55 Speaker 04 No, and like I kept telling you and you didn't believe me and now I'm just like having like some post-trip depression about it.
1:02 Speaker 03 Like what do you wish we did?
1:03 Speaker 04 I think we could have done a lot more planning.
1:06 Speaker 03 What was your favorite memory of me on the trip and your least favorite, like the most angry you were with me?
1:16 Speaker 04 Okay, we're in Kyoto.
1:17 Speaker 03 Uh huh.
1:18 Speaker 04 It was my, it was my like down day. Like I didn't want to do anything. I needed to be left alone. What were you doing and why did you fart on my face?
1:27 Speaker 04 And it was just, CG had to break us up.
1:31 Speaker 03 Yeah, I think you started crying.
1:33 Speaker 04 Oh no, I actually had to take a minute. It was... Do you remember that?
1:37 Speaker 03 Yeah, I just remember.
1:38 Speaker 04 Oh, and should we talk about the TikTok?
1:40 Speaker 03 What TikTok?
1:42 Speaker 04 In Kyoto...
1:44 Speaker 03 Oh yeah, when I tried to make my TikTok?
1:45 Speaker 04 That was just horrible.
1:48 Speaker 03 I tried to make the Phoebe Bridgers day off in Kyoto and I kept trying to get a shot of what was it? I was trying to get your shot and I...
1:56 Speaker 04 But then it was Ally's shot and then it was back to me and I kept being like, just I don't want to be in it. I just, I just don't.
2:01 Speaker 03 And then we had to separate again.
2:03 Speaker 04 And then CG was like really just like handling the entire thing. She was like our like group trip leader. And then also like just trying to keep the peace between all of us, but she was, she was like on my side.
2:15 Speaker 03 She did demand quiet time when we were skiing and I got back to the room.
2:18 Speaker 04 Yeah, that was bad. So that was definitely like the worst day because that, but why did you fart in my face?
2:25 Speaker 03 For fun.
2:26 Speaker 04 But it was no, it like, it wasn't something like, we don't have that type of relationship. That's why it was so bizarre.
2:31 Speaker 03 Yeah, I think I was just like manic, to be honest. I had just come from Toronto and then we were in Tokyo and then we were in Kyoto and like,
2:38 Speaker 04 Like it was true, like brother, sister, like annoying. Um, that's just when you first got there and like, you know, like you're really excited to see each other.
2:46 Speaker 03 Yeah.
2:47 Speaker 04 Like we were bouncing up and down. And then the next day, like Jake was set on getting a Birkin.
2:53 Speaker 03 No, I was not set on getting a Birkin. We were set on getting Alice a Birkin. Instead, you want to know what Alice did? She spent, you'll never believe how many hours? Four hours? In a Muji.
3:09 Speaker 03 She spent four hours in a Muji.
3:11 Speaker 04 How many suitcases?
3:11 Speaker 03 She showed up to dinner with two suitcases full of stuff from Muji. And I, I didn't really know about Muji, but then I was in Boston and I passed a Muji. And I was like, why did she care to go to Muji in Japan for four hours? She kept texting me, hour two, still here.
3:31 Speaker 04 Just wooden spoons.
3:32 Speaker 03 That's all you bought?
3:33 Speaker 04 Yeah. So many wooden spoons.
3:35 Speaker 03 Have you used them? Where are they?
3:37 Speaker 04 Nope. Um, you know, I've taken them out of the suitcase, but they're still, you know, like they feel too good to use.
3:44 Speaker 03 From Muji?
3:48 Speaker 04 So when you got your Birkin, that was a really big highlight because like we could all just like breathe. Like it had happened, like he made it his mission.
3:55 Speaker 03 No, it wasn't my mission. It was not.
3:57 Speaker 04 It was a super, super high high and then like just it was tears from that.
4:01 Speaker 03 No, that's not true. I, I was actually, I was looking for you.
4:05 Speaker 04 Uh huh. And you just stumbled on the perfect.
4:07 Speaker 03 I, it was, what was I supposed to do?
4:10 Speaker 04 Mm hmm.
4:10 Speaker 03 And then I ran and where were you? You were at a craft store. And then do you remember the photo face down?
4:15 Speaker 04 No.
4:18 Speaker 04 In the corner.
4:19 Speaker 03 I was too afraid to put anything in the bag.
4:26 Speaker 03 The Birkin was face down on the floor for two days straight. And Alice was like, you have to put stuff in it. And then we got on the train for, okay, I would actually say the low of my trip. Was that the fight that, was that when Ally and I fought?
4:44 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah, that was bad. What did I kept, what did I keep saying?
4:47 Speaker 03 You're being children. You're being children.
4:50 Speaker 04 He said, why are you embarrassed? You're embarrassing yourself. Ally goes, how can I embarrass myself in front of you guys? I was like, you're embarrassing.
4:59 Speaker 03 Are we, you know, I, I would like to bring up this time. Alice and I have a real problem.
5:06 Speaker 04 Please go ahead.
5:06 Speaker 03 We, as some might describe it, actually, those closest to us would describe us as such, are miserable people.
5:15 Speaker 04 Miserable. The most unhappy it gets.
5:17 Speaker 03 And like we, when's the last time you felt joy?
5:21 Speaker 04 We aren't.
5:22 Speaker 03 Sleeping doesn't count.
5:26 Speaker 03 Cause I know you were about to say when you got back from breakfast today and went back to bed.
5:32 Speaker 04 You don't get it. We aren't happy unless we are upset.
5:38 Speaker 03 Together.
5:38 Speaker 04 Yes. Like we can be, again, like we had been planning this Japan trip for months. So excited.
5:45 Speaker 03 Here's the thing about Alice and I, we'll go to a new place for the first four hours of that new place. We'll say.
5:51 Speaker 04 We're full of maniacs.
5:54 Speaker 03 We've been waiting our whole lives for this. Like this is where we're meant to be. This is why we were so unhappy before. Four hours later, we got, Alice starts threatening to book flights home.
6:05 Speaker 03 When we were away this summer, I'd wake up every day and Alice would send me a screenshot of a flight that she had put on hold. For the following day and would just say, "I'm leaving."
6:18 Speaker 04 I'm leaving, period.
6:19 Speaker 03 And then every day, it was a toss up whether she would walk down to breakfast or not.
6:23 Speaker 04 It was like those long, long stairs. It was like, would I make it?
6:27 Speaker 03 Sunglasses on and her flip flops and she'd walk, her tote and she'd walk in and sit down and we would just be finishing and then...
6:35 Speaker 04 And then the meal would start again.
6:38 Speaker 04 You know, like misery.
6:40 Speaker 03 Misery.
6:40 Speaker 04 We, we aren't happy unless we're upset.
6:42 Speaker 03 But you know what our plan is?
6:44 Speaker 04 What is it?
6:44 Speaker 03 Married, kiss on the cheek, houses that connect underground.
6:51 Speaker 03 And that's it.
6:52 Speaker 04 But what's, what's are gonna be our matching?
6:55 Speaker 03 We have matching Birkins walking down the aisle.
6:58 Speaker 03 What else was on our list? Tokyo, misery, Coachella predictions. You know, you actually know you came on this show.
7:05 Speaker 04 Yep.
7:06 Speaker 03 And we gave Coachella predictions before? So you're coming, you're coming on Saturday.
7:10 Speaker 04 We were pretty naive about our Coachella predictions.
7:13 Speaker 03 Are you coming Friday or are you coming Saturday?
7:16 Speaker 04 If I can get out of my work situation, I will be coming on Friday. No, I'll be coming on Thursday. If not, I will be there like Saturday evening.
7:23 Speaker 03 Okay, so if you're there Saturday evening, like you're missing Cat's Eye.
7:27 Speaker 04 No, I need to be there.
7:28 Speaker 03 Who's your bias?
7:29 Speaker 04 Yoonjae.
7:30 Speaker 03 Really? Mine is, um, Laura. You know, this intro is actually for Dan Levy. For Schitt's Creek, I'm surprised you've seen that show. You actually rarely watch or consume television.
7:40 Speaker 04 That was one of the only shows I watched. I don't watch TV shows. I can't concentrate and I would rather be on my phone.
7:47 Speaker 03 Okay, but you want to know a random show that Alice did watch?
7:49 Speaker 04 Oh my God, I almost have to tell you about this movie I watched the other day.
7:52 Speaker 03 What movie?
7:53 Speaker 04 With Rachel McAdams and is it Dylan O'Brien?
7:56 Speaker 05 Send help, yeah.
7:57 Speaker 04 Yes, have you seen that?
7:58 Speaker 03 No.
7:59 Speaker 04 Hey, we need to watch it. It is hysterical.
8:03 Speaker 03 Wait, really?
8:03 Speaker 04 It's a horror movie.
8:04 Speaker 03 But is it funny?
8:05 Speaker 04 Like, what did you think?
8:06 Speaker 05 I actually really liked it. It's the same Randy camp. Yeah, it's great. Dylan O'Brien's great in it.
8:11 Speaker 03 Did you see it in theaters? You went to a movie theater?
8:13 Speaker 04 No, no, it was on Apple TV.
8:14 Speaker 03 Okay, I was about to say.
8:15 Speaker 04 That would have been a really big deal. Okay, Coachella predictions.
8:18 Speaker 03 Coachella predictions. I predict that you're gonna come Friday or Thursday night.
8:22 Speaker 04 I thought we were gonna talk about like, what's gonna be the most tears? When are you gonna hit your freak out?
8:26 Speaker 03 My freak-
8:27 Speaker 04 When do you think you're gonna leave? How soon do you think you're gonna get to the festival? Like, I want to know all of it. Who's gonna be the most drama?
8:34 Speaker 03 Friday is gonna be my day. Friday is gonna be my day. It's Cat's Eye, Calvin Harris, Disclosure, like- Yeah.
8:40 Speaker 04 Sabrina?
8:41 Speaker 03 Sabrina. Like, it's gonna be, like, Friday's gonna be one of the best days ever. Saturday, it's Bieber, so it's obviously gonna be amazing.
8:48 Speaker 04 Who else is on Saturday?
8:49 Speaker 03 The Strokes, who I need to see.
8:50 Speaker 04 Yeah, that's your bet. You've been doing this since you're like seventeen.
8:54 Speaker 03 You don't think I really like The Strokes?
8:55 Speaker 04 Of course you don't.
8:57 Speaker 03 Alice, you don't think so?
8:59 Speaker 04 Come on, like, it's you.
9:00 Speaker 03 What do you mean?
9:01 Speaker 04 Like, okay, yeah, like, you're Bonnie Bear.
9:06 Speaker 03 You know I like Bonnie Bear.
9:08 Speaker 04 So, you think Friday's gonna be your best day?
9:10 Speaker 03 Saturday will be amazing. After Saturday, though, I'm tapped.
9:12 Speaker 04 No, it's done.
9:13 Speaker 03 Okay, so what, if you had to describe, if we had to describe each other in one, like, like, what is, like, our weirdest thing that we have? Like, I, like, that you have to say, like, you know when you're sitting, you're like, oh, he hates cold food?
9:26 Speaker 04 Oh, this is your, you're have, you have to guess.
9:28 Speaker 03 My favorite thing that we do, though, is when we, mm.
9:36 Speaker 03 Like, mm.
9:41 Speaker 03 We stopped speaking in Japan and we only started speaking in inside jokes. Love you so much.
9:45 Speaker 04 I love you too.
9:47 Speaker 03 We can't tell them about our syncups. That's just for us.
9:50 Speaker 04 Cause it will drink set.
9:51 Speaker 03 Well, every time we sync up.
9:54 Speaker 04 Something goes bad?
9:55 Speaker 03 No, it's not bad. It's, you know what it is? You're upset, I'm happy, I'm upset, you're happy. But world is at peace when we are both upset about the same thing. When Alice and I are both upset about the same thing.
10:06 Speaker 04 It's electric.
10:07 Speaker 03 It is like.
10:10 Speaker 03 And we go back and forth for like two hours. Like, no one is safe.
10:13 Speaker 04 No, no.
10:15 Speaker 03 We go there. Like.
10:17 Speaker 04 It's, we go to the dark place, which is our happy place, maybe.
10:20 Speaker 03 I think so too. But Alice has watched Schitt's Creek. It's one of the two shows she's seen.
10:25 Speaker 04 I'm obsessed. It's so good.
10:26 Speaker 03 Well, after we finish Dream Academy, I'm watching it, so we'll, we'll watch it.
10:29 Speaker 04 Okay, period.
10:30 Speaker 03 Tonight, we have on Dan Levy, and Alice has made her second intro appearance.
10:35 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah.
10:36 Speaker 03 Oh, oh, wait, wait. Alice really needs PR. To all the companies.
10:39 Speaker 04 Really badly.
10:40 Speaker 03 To all the companies watching.
10:42 Speaker 04 Please.
10:42 Speaker 03 To all the companies watching, like, just make your plea.
10:46 Speaker 04 Listen, like, my DMs are off. Now they're open. Please, I will take anything.
10:54 Speaker 03 Please send Alice PR. She'll post it. She really wants it.
10:57 Speaker 04 I don't really know how to post things, but like I will.
11:00 Speaker 03 So that's it. Okay.
11:02 Speaker 04 I love to yap. I'll tell everyone all about it.
11:05 Speaker 03 All right, pussies. Enjoy the episode. Alice, I love you.
11:08 Speaker 04 I love you.
11:09 Speaker 03 Say bye, pussies.
11:10 Speaker 04 Bye, pussies.
11:14 Speaker 03 Hi, pussies. Welcome back to Therapists. Tonight, we have on the man, the myth, the legend, Dan Levy, whose new show, Big Mistakes, is out on Netflix, April 9th.
11:23 Speaker 06 I'm so happy to be here.
11:24 Speaker 03 I'm so happy to have you here.
11:25 Speaker 06 It's so cozy in here.
11:27 Speaker 03 Do you feel as though you're comfortable?
11:29 Speaker 06 Yeah, I feel completely comfortable.
11:31 Speaker 03 Okay, cool.
11:32 Speaker 06 Yeah.
11:32 Speaker 03 How are you?
11:33 Speaker 06 I'm so good. My sister says to say that she embarrassed herself in front of you, I want to say a couple of years ago, she came up to you and said she thought you were really funny, and then she kind of walked away.
11:44 Speaker 03 Wait, why is that embarrassing?
11:45 Speaker 06 Because I think she was in like, she didn't even think about what she was doing at the time. I think she just like grabbed you and complimented, which ultimately is not a bad thing.
11:54 Speaker 03 That's not a bad thing.
11:55 Speaker 06 But I think she left feeling like, did I need to do that?
11:58 Speaker 03 I don't mind.
11:59 Speaker 06 Good.
11:59 Speaker 03 Well, I want to hear about Big Mistakes.
12:02 Speaker 06 I'm just so happy to talk about it.
12:04 Speaker 03 It's amazing. There was this one, not to spoil, well, it's not a spoiler, but you were in bed with your boyfriend.
12:10 Speaker 06 Yeah.
12:11 Speaker 03 And you had this line that I just thought was so moving, where you said, "God is perfect, but the people that interpret him are not."
12:19 Speaker 06 Yeah.
12:19 Speaker 03 I thought that was really beautiful.
12:21 Speaker 06 Thanks. You know, like, when you're in a comedy and you're playing a pastor.
12:27 Speaker 03 Right.
12:27 Speaker 06 The last thing I wanted was to make religion the butt of the joke. I think it's easy, I think it's lazy, and I really wanted his relationship to faith and to God to be real.
12:40 Speaker 03 Right.
12:40 Speaker 06 So we worked with a gay pastor to authenticate the scenes that we were writing in the church and make sure that like, at no point was Christianity ever going to be the butt of the joke.
12:52 Speaker 03 Right.
12:53 Speaker 06 It's his relation. No, it never was.
12:54 Speaker 03 It never was. I was so moved by it. I was in, I watched it. We were on a road trip from Boston to New York, and I watched it, and I stopped everyone in the Car and I wouldn't shut up about it for like an hour. I thought it was so.
13:07 Speaker 06 Thanks.
13:07 Speaker 03 Well put.
13:08 Speaker 06 It's so nice to like have people watch something that you've just been like working on for a year. And no one really like, none of my friends, none of my family like knew what I was doing.
13:18 Speaker 03 They didn't know you.
13:19 Speaker 06 Well, you like squirrel away.
13:20 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
13:21 Speaker 06 And I don't really like talking about work that much. So when I'm with my friends, we're not talking about, I'm not like.
13:26 Speaker 03 Right.
13:27 Speaker 06 I wrote a great line. Do you want me to read it for you?
13:29 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
13:30 Speaker 06 That's not what it is. So it's nice now to like have the show be on its way out. Or I don't know, like when this is coming out.
13:38 Speaker 03 It might be out.
13:39 Speaker 06 Okay. Um, and have people see it.
13:41 Speaker 03 Yeah.
13:42 Speaker 06 That's like the greatest thing. And like what you made.
13:45 Speaker 03 Yeah.
13:45 Speaker 06 Sometimes you don't like what you made and you have to talk to people about it and find creative ways of like.
13:52 Speaker 03 Has that happened to you before?
13:54 Speaker 06 I think I've been lucky in the sense that it sort of hasn't.
13:56 Speaker 03 Right.
13:57 Speaker 06 But friends of mine have had to go on like full press tours and just be like, mm hmm.
14:02 Speaker 03 Yeah.
14:02 Speaker 06 Yeah, no, this is, yeah, learned a lot and we're having a great time.
14:07 Speaker 03 Right, right.
14:08 Speaker 06 Yeah.
14:08 Speaker 03 Um, how did you and Rachel Senate meet?
14:11 Speaker 06 We met on The Idol.
14:13 Speaker 03 Oh my God.
14:14 Speaker 06 Mm hmm. We were shooting a lot of scenes for The Idol that I thought like, whoa, is this gonna be like?
14:20 Speaker 03 A comedy?
14:21 Speaker 06 Like a really dark comeback.
14:23 Speaker 03 Right.
14:23 Speaker 06 Cause it had the potential. There was like, it had the potential to be incredibly satirical. But I didn't know, like it's so, you're shooting so much and it's, a lot of it's improvised and you have no idea really what, what, what the tone of the show is. So there were scenes that were really funny. Rachel was hysterically funny. So when I was like coming up with this show, I, it's a brother sister situation. I don't like writing, especially knowing that this was gonna be like brother sister through the whole show. I really wanted like a female voice to speak to the reality of the lived experience of this character.
15:01 Speaker 06 I didn't think that it was, you know, appropriate if I just like created this woman and didn't have the nuance that it would take for a female perspective to kind of lend itself to this. This woman. Um, and so I went to Rachel with the like little idea and said, would you? Create this with me. And she said yes. And we kind of worked over Zoom for a long time and then wrote the pilot and then sold the show.
15:28 Speaker 03 Well, it's unbelievable.
15:30 Speaker 06 And she's so great.
15:32 Speaker 03 And did you, I could hear Rachel in, in Taylor's, like when Taylor speaks, I can hear Rachel.
15:39 Speaker 06 I think that was the fun thing about finding Taylor was we had to find someone who was going to kind of walk into this part and not just be doing Rachel.
15:49 Speaker 03 Right.
15:50 Speaker 06 You know, and like, as soon as Taylor put herself on tape, it was clear that her interpretation of the character was going to be something different.
16:00 Speaker 03 Are you guys planning on continuing it for another season? Cause
16:05 Speaker 06 I hope so.
16:06 Speaker 03 Cause I
16:07 Speaker 06 My plan is many seasons for this show.
16:09 Speaker 03 Yes.
16:09 Speaker 06 I have a big, I know how the entire season, I know how the entire series ends.
16:13 Speaker 03 Really?
16:14 Speaker 06 Yeah, I have the final image of the show. Many, many seasons down the line. I know exactly the image I want to end on.
16:22 Speaker 03 It's kind of like Sopranos for gay people.
16:24 Speaker 06 That's right. That's exactly, that's the highest compliment I've gotten so far.
16:28 Speaker 03 Right?
16:28 Speaker 06 That is the, can we, someone, someone needs to take that and throw it on a
16:33 Speaker 03 Clip it.
16:34 Speaker 06 Clip it. Um, yeah.
16:36 Speaker 03 That's what I felt. I was like
16:38 Speaker 06 That filled me with so much joy, I can't even tell you.
16:40 Speaker 03 Oh yeah, but that's what I, that's like, if you had to elevator pitch it, it's Sopranos for gay people.
16:44 Speaker 06 That's right.
16:45 Speaker 03 Yes. You live outside of the city.
16:47 Speaker 06 Yeah.
16:47 Speaker 03 You're in organized crime.
16:48 Speaker 06 That's it.
16:49 Speaker 03 You're gay pastor.
16:50 Speaker 06 Completely incapable of handling any kind of criminal pressure at all.
16:53 Speaker 03 Right. But I think, I think your character gets better at it throughout.
16:57 Speaker 06 Well, that's the goal.
16:58 Speaker 03 Yeah.
16:58 Speaker 06 I mean, the idea would be that these people didn't know that this crime would actually help them.
17:04 Speaker 03 Right.
17:05 Speaker 06 That's the end goal, I think.
17:07 Speaker 03 Right.
17:07 Speaker 06 Is that like, if it never crossed their path, maybe they wouldn't have found parts of themselves that they
17:12 Speaker 03 Well, yes. Well, Taylor's, yeah, I'm gonna stop spoiling. It's fantastic. It's fantastic. It's really fantastic. I watched it in one day.
17:20 Speaker 06 The whole thing?
17:21 Speaker 03 Yes.
17:21 Speaker 06 The whole show?
17:23 Speaker 03 Yeah, yes. I did.
17:25 Speaker 06 That's the craziest part, though, to me. You spent 13 months making a show, gone in four and a half hours.
17:31 Speaker 03 Yeah, I watched the whole thing in one day.
17:33 Speaker 06 Oh.
17:33 Speaker 03 Well, I couldn't stop. I was very invested.
17:36 Speaker 06 You're like, I think, one of the only people I know who has watched the whole show.
17:41 Speaker 03 Well, it's not out yet.
17:42 Speaker 06 Well, I know. They haven't got it yet.
17:43 Speaker 03 Yeah.
17:43 Speaker 06 But it's so nice to hear that you watched it.
17:45 Speaker 03 Yeah, well, it's lovely. Speaking of, I was like, do I tell him this? Do I not tell him this?
17:50 Speaker 06 No, you obviously, what is it? Tell me now.
17:52 Speaker 03 I am on my first ever watch of Schitt's Creek.
17:55 Speaker 06 Great.
17:56 Speaker 03 I know the end. Because I was so ashamed that I hadn't seen it.
18:00 Speaker 06 Yeah, but you know what? I sometimes feel like, when things are things, I always...
18:06 Speaker 03 I was so intimidated.
18:06 Speaker 06 Well, it's intimidation, but I also have this, like, relationship to, like, big cultural moments where I'm like, I'm sure I'm gonna go there. I don't need to be involved in this conversation right now. Let the dust settle, then I'll jump in when I have a relationship to it.
18:23 Speaker 03 Right.
18:24 Speaker 06 I think that's how we have to watch things.
18:26 Speaker 03 Yeah.
18:26 Speaker 06 We can't be pressured into watching things.
18:28 Speaker 03 That's how I feel about, like, Survivor as well, or like, other shit.
18:32 Speaker 06 So where are you in Schitt's now?
18:33 Speaker 03 I'm in season two.
18:34 Speaker 06 Oh, you are.
18:35 Speaker 03 It's so...
18:36 Speaker 06 It just keeps getting better and better.
18:37 Speaker 03 We just picked you up from the Amish farm.
18:38 Speaker 06 That's right.
18:39 Speaker 03 We just picked you up from the Amish farm. It's so good.
18:43 Speaker 06 Oh, thanks.
18:44 Speaker 03 It's so good.
18:45 Speaker 06 It's just, it was a joy to make, and I find that, like, now I get fed clips and things, and I'll always stop and watch it. Like, it's so sweet.
18:57 Speaker 03 Did you pitch it to your dad, or did your dad pitch it?
19:00 Speaker 06 Yes. I had the idea, I had worked for a long time on The Hills.
19:04 Speaker 03 Shut up.
19:05 Speaker 06 Yeah.
19:06 Speaker 03 Like BTS?
19:07 Speaker 06 No. Front of camera, hosting the after show for The Hills.
19:12 Speaker 03 No way?
19:12 Speaker 06 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
19:13 Speaker 03 And what was that like?
19:14 Speaker 06 It was standing on a, on a... Platform on the pool of the Roosevelt Hotel. Saying, "Welcome to the after show. This is the series finale of The Hills." Every season finale, we would host. So we were involved in the, we became like very involved in the, in like the show. So I got to see a kind of like perspective on reality television, the lives of like wealthy young people. So when I left like hosting TV, I was really preoccupied with this idea of showing what would happen to these families that we've come to like know and love, who are like really well to do. What would happen if it all went away?
19:59 Speaker 06 What would the behind the scenes look like?
20:01 Speaker 03 Right.
20:02 Speaker 06 So that's where the idea for Shits came from, was like living and breathing in reality TV for eight years of my life.
20:09 Speaker 03 And
20:10 Speaker 06 We started with Laguna Beach. We did the whole thing.
20:12 Speaker 03 You did Laguna as well?
20:13 Speaker 06 The city.
20:15 Speaker 06 I'm shocked they didn't ask me to come and host the reunion.
20:18 Speaker 03 For Laguna?
20:19 Speaker 06 Yeah.
20:19 Speaker 03 Would you have done it?
20:20 Speaker 06 Hundred percent.
20:21 Speaker 03 I thought you weren't like, I thought you didn't enjoy doing those.
20:24 Speaker 06 I didn't.
20:25 Speaker 03 Yeah.
20:25 Speaker 06 But I still have love for like what got me here.
20:28 Speaker 03 Thousand.
20:29 Speaker 06 You know what I mean?
20:30 Speaker 03 Yeah.
20:32 Speaker 06 Every day that I was hosting television, I knew that this was not in my bones, what I was meant to do. We still had a good time.
20:39 Speaker 03 Right.
20:41 Speaker 06 It's still like who I am. But I saw that reunion and I was like, interesting.
20:48 Speaker 06 No one thought to give me a call. Um.
20:51 Speaker 03 You definitely would have got more eyeballs had you.
20:54 Speaker 06 Well, I don't know. I mean, is it even out? I don't know. Anyway.
20:57 Speaker 03 I think so.
20:57 Speaker 06 Oh, okay.
21:01 Speaker 03 I was never a Laguna kid. I was a Hills kid.
21:04 Speaker 06 Okay.
21:05 Speaker 03 I was a Hills kid. I really liked The Hills and I'll never forget the series finale when they pull back the green screen. Cause why?
21:11 Speaker 06 Honestly, in my opinion, wrapped up the whole show. Cause even working on the, like the after show, part of the struggle that we had was the Hills cast was. Up to their antics in the press.
21:25 Speaker 03 Yes, they were.
21:26 Speaker 06 Us Weekly was reporting.
21:28 Speaker 03 Yes, they were.
21:29 Speaker 06 We were, could only speak about the relationships that were on the show, which happened months prior because they would shoot way in advance.
21:38 Speaker 03 Yes.
21:38 Speaker 06 So we were in conflict with some of the MTV creatives because we had to adhere to the narratives that were going on in the show.
21:49 Speaker 03 And you couldn't talk about the press?
21:51 Speaker 06 The press? It was all people could talk about, but no, we couldn't talk about it.
21:54 Speaker 03 Wow.
21:55 Speaker 06 Yeah.
21:56 Speaker 03 Do you have a favorite moment from The Hills?
21:58 Speaker 06 What does she say? It's a Lauren Conrad line.
22:01 Speaker 03 Oh, I forgive you, but I want to forget you.
22:06 Speaker 06 The black mascara tear streaming down the face. I mean, it was cinematic.
22:10 Speaker 03 It was cinematic. That and when, forget whose wedding they're at, but it's Lauren's last season and Kristen pulls up to the wedding.
22:19 Speaker 06 That's right.
22:19 Speaker 03 And Lauren gets up. Oh, my God. Like, that show was cinematic.
22:24 Speaker 06 Kristin Cavallari is a star.
22:25 Speaker 03 A star.
22:27 Speaker 06 She knew exactly what she was doing. She played the game perfectly. She was also like really fun to work with because she understood why she was there.
22:36 Speaker 03 Right.
22:37 Speaker 06 Do you know what I mean? Like, when you're doing that world, you gotta understand what the game you're playing. And she would always come and do our show and was so like, gave us everything we wanted.
22:48 Speaker 03 Uh huh.
22:48 Speaker 06 Because she knew she was there to stir the pot.
22:51 Speaker 03 She like, she knew how to play reality.
22:53 Speaker 06 She was miles ahead.
22:54 Speaker 03 Yeah.
22:55 Speaker 06 She knew exactly what was going on.
22:56 Speaker 03 She's doing what the Housewives are doing now.
22:58 Speaker 06 That's right.
22:58 Speaker 03 Do you watch Housewives?
22:59 Speaker 06 Yes.
23:00 Speaker 03 What's your favorite?
23:02 Speaker 06 Salt Lake City, obviously.
23:04 Speaker 03 It's the greatest of all time.
23:05 Speaker 06 I've been watching Beverly Hills.
23:07 Speaker 03 You have?
23:08 Speaker 06 Hmm. I love Rachel Zoe.
23:10 Speaker 03 I know. I love Rachel Zoe.
23:12 Speaker 06 Rachel Zoe Project was one, was, should have been drowning in Emmys.
23:16 Speaker 03 Yeah. Well, what was it when they, wasn't there like a flood? And it was like Oscar week or something and all the clothes got wet?
23:22 Speaker 06 I mean, there was always a problem.
23:23 Speaker 03 There was always, always, always a problem.
23:25 Speaker 06 Always a problem and somehow she pulled it off.
23:27 Speaker 03 So this season of Beverly Hills is good, you're saying?
23:29 Speaker 06 Is it as good as like?
23:31 Speaker 03 Rena?
23:32 Speaker 06 No.
23:32 Speaker 03 Right.
23:34 Speaker 06 It'll never be as good as Rena.
23:35 Speaker 03 Ever. Or like, uh, what's my favorite? When Erica Jane, I forget, there are some other place and she has these, these fucking bangs.
23:43 Speaker 06 Oh, yeah, yeah.
23:43 Speaker 03 And she's waiting for the, to cross the street.
23:46 Speaker 06 Yeah.
23:46 Speaker 03 And she goes.
23:48 Speaker 03 Do you remember that? Do you remember that?
23:50 Speaker 06 Erica Jane is one of the great cast members.
23:53 Speaker 03 One of the great, her, Rena. I mean, really and truly, I think early Beverly Hills with the Richard sisters are just-
24:00 Speaker 06 Well, it's perfect television.
24:02 Speaker 03 That's real.
24:03 Speaker 06 The Rena line delivery with Denise Richards, with the like, "Ooh, you are so angry."
24:12 Speaker 03 Oh my god, I just got to my toes are curling. Like, she's so good.
24:17 Speaker 06 She should be EGOT.
24:19 Speaker 03 EGOT.
24:20 Speaker 06 Just from that.
24:21 Speaker 03 Rena should be EGOT.
24:22 Speaker 06 Rena's line deliveries were so extraordinary, I would like lift out of my body.
24:28 Speaker 03 When Ken gave the buddy back and she goes, "Thank you."
24:31 Speaker 06 Yeah, unbelievable. The whole, anyway, I love Lisa Rena.
24:35 Speaker 03 Me too. I love all, there's always, the Lisas on The Housewives are always great.
24:38 Speaker 06 Lisa Rena is the Kristin Cavallari of Beverly Hills Housewives.
24:43 Speaker 03 What a great comp. That was biblical, what you just said.
24:46 Speaker 06 Thank you.
24:47 Speaker 03 That was biblical.
24:48 Speaker 06 She knew exactly what she was doing and knew when to get out.
24:53 Speaker 03 She got out at the perfect time. Now give me your thoughts on Salt Lake.
24:56 Speaker 06 I just don't understand, I think because my life is so boring, I look at these reality shows and I'm like, how could, I mean, these are real li-
25:06 Speaker 03 And have you seen the cast interact in person ever?
25:08 Speaker 06 No, I've never seen them in person.
25:10 Speaker 03 They fight.
25:11 Speaker 06 Ah!
25:14 Speaker 03 Yeah, but Lisa Barlow is like, "That's my girl." Yeah, I know.
25:18 Speaker 06 Lisa Barlow.
25:20 Speaker 03 That's my girl. She's very-
25:21 Speaker 06 Unbelievable voice.
25:23 Speaker 03 She's very important to God. Like, very, very-
25:26 Speaker 06 And you can't, I mean, the casting, how do they find these people? Like, wha-
25:31 Speaker 03 I, I think they go, I think Andy is now going to these, like, he's not doing the big cities anymore, he's going to like more niche-
25:39 Speaker 06 That's right.
25:40 Speaker 03 Areas.
25:41 Speaker 06 Yeah.
25:41 Speaker 03 Cause they're doing Rhode Island. Which is apparently fantastic. And I'm sat and I'm ready.
25:47 Speaker 06 Well, Potomac, Salt Lake City, like you're getting into, you're getting into niche markets.
25:52 Speaker 03 Do you watch Traders?
25:53 Speaker 06 I watched the celebrity, UK celebrity Traders.
25:56 Speaker 03 How was that?
25:57 Speaker 06 Lovely.
25:58 Speaker 03 Okay.
25:59 Speaker 06 Really, really fun. And I've been meaning, anyway, this is a whole conversation about like how I don't know how to download the Peacock app, anyway.
26:06 Speaker 03 You don't?
26:06 Speaker 06 Well, I sort of, it's like, you need to, I think I did, and then I, there's a password, and I have never figured out that, I don't want to reset a password.
26:13 Speaker 03 I mean, that, that's hell, by the way.
26:15 Speaker 06 I just want to buy it.
26:16 Speaker 03 Yeah, you open the gates of hell, and you have to log into a streaming service on your television.
26:21 Speaker 06 Nope, won't do it.
26:22 Speaker 03 You know who makes it real easy?
26:25 Speaker 03 Netflix.
26:28 Speaker 03 To actually say it's the easiest one.
26:29 Speaker 06 It is the easiest one. Very rarely do I ever have to reset.
26:33 Speaker 03 No, never.
26:33 Speaker 06 I don't even think I know my Netflix password.
26:35 Speaker 03 You don't, because you don't need to.
26:36 Speaker 06 That's right.
26:37 Speaker 03 Because they make it easy.
26:38 Speaker 06 That's right.
26:39 Speaker 03 They make it easy.
26:40 Speaker 06 Easily accessible.
26:40 Speaker 03 Easily.
26:41 Speaker 06 Click, click, click.
26:42 Speaker 03 Click, scan the code.
26:43 Speaker 06 Click, click, press play.
26:45 Speaker 03 Press play.
26:46 Speaker 06 Yeah.
26:46 Speaker 03 What are you watching right now, besides?
26:49 Speaker 06 Uh, besides Beverly Hills?
26:52 Speaker 03 Yeah, just like in general.
26:54 Speaker 06 Uh, Love Story.
26:56 Speaker 03 Me too. It's amazing.
26:58 Speaker 06 No, it's like, it's, I think what's brilliant about Love Story is they captured a time that people are so nostalgic for. I think it's why everyone's starting to dress like Carolyn Biset Kennedy again. And JFK, like it's.
27:11 Speaker 03 Do you remember that in real time?
27:13 Speaker 06 No.
27:14 Speaker 03 Okay.
27:14 Speaker 06 I don't remember the impact of, of that, like, cultural moment, I was too young.
27:19 Speaker 03 Yeah.
27:23 Speaker 06 But yeah, it's major. And I love seeing like a Calvin Klein store from the 90s, I want to buy all those clothes.
27:28 Speaker 03 I've been wearing Calvin Klein because of it lately.
27:30 Speaker 06 I was shopping vintage Calvin Klein in Japan a week ago.
27:34 Speaker 03 I'm so jealous of the way you did Japan.
27:36 Speaker 06 You were just there, though.
27:37 Speaker 03 I was just there, I did, we did Tokyo, Kyoto, and Niseko.
27:40 Speaker 06 Oh, you, okay, you skied.
27:42 Speaker 03 I skied one day, and then I was in too much pain, and I said, I, I'm done.
27:45 Speaker 06 Okay.
27:46 Speaker 03 I'm done. But Tokyo, I think, might be my favorite place in the entire world.
27:49 Speaker 06 It is my favorite place on the planet. I go every year to, like, reset my brain.
27:54 Speaker 03 Do you go alone?
27:56 Speaker 06 No, I go with friends, always.
27:58 Speaker 03 And do you, what, like?
27:59 Speaker 06 And often the same friends. And I think it's one of those experiences where like, it's, did you go by yourself?
28:04 Speaker 03 No, I went with my friends.
28:05 Speaker 06 Yeah, it's great. And it's, it feels like you're having like- Such a rare experience with your friends. Like, you go there, everyone's now going to Japan, but even still, you go and feel like nobody's experiencing the joy that we're experiencing.
28:22 Speaker 03 It's just the way of life there. I feel like-
28:24 Speaker 06 The streets are clean?
28:25 Speaker 03 The streets are clean.
28:26 Speaker 06 I will say this, the impact of the girl scene, when Shoshana lands at the American airport after living in Japan-
28:35 Speaker 03 And she's defeated.
28:36 Speaker 06 And she is looking around, like, what kind of hot trash mess is this situation? Nothing has encapsulated the sadness of returning from Japan more than that scene.
28:51 Speaker 03 And you know, they have one of my favorite needle drops of all time in that scene. It's, um, god, what is it? It's, uh-
28:58 Speaker 06 Oh, yeah.
28:59 Speaker 03 Past Lives by Bourne's.
29:00 Speaker 06 That's right.
29:01 Speaker 03 It's so, so good. And you have a great needle drop in Big Mistakes, you have a Robyn song.
29:07 Speaker 06 Oh, yeah, we have a couple of great needle drops that, like, if you know, you know. Like, also the Sleigh Bells needle drop in episode two.
29:15 Speaker 03 It's phenomenal.
29:17 Speaker 06 That's, I mean, that's the fun thing. For me, it's all about playlists. I put playlists together when I'm writing, I put playlists together-
29:22 Speaker 03 Do you really?
29:23 Speaker 06 Oh, yeah.
29:23 Speaker 03 Who were you listening to when you were writing the show?
29:25 Speaker 06 Peaches.
29:25 Speaker 03 Peaches.
29:26 Speaker 06 And then asked her to score the show, and she said yes.
29:32 Speaker 03 Thank you, SeatGeek, for sponsoring tonight's episode, and what a perfect time, because festival season has officially begun. I am making my way to the desert for Coachella yet again. And it really reminds me of how special festival season is, because you, there really is no, festivals bring this sense of, like, so many different genres of music together, and to be able to be there and to see that, and to see multiple artists you love in one day, I think is so, so unique and special. We have many, many artists we love on the festival circuit. We have Tate McCray headlining Lollapalooza, we have Adella
30:14 Speaker 03 at Lollapalooza, Sabrina at Coachella, Charli XCX is back on the- Festival circuit, Olivia Dean, like there's so many people to see and more so, there's so many people you might not know that you can fall in love with. My favorite experience ever, like I think is one of the most like highs you can feel is falling in love with an artist as they're performing their live show. Um, that happened to me with Blue Tiger. SeatGeek makes it easy to get tickets to these festivals because you can use code therapist for 10% off. Not only that, if you click the link in the description, it will download the app and automatically add the code therapist for 10% off. In addition, there are so many people going on tour. Adella and Demi Lovato are going on tour together. Ariana is going on tour and SeatGeek makes it easy to make sure you're getting a good
30:59 Speaker 03 deal because when you go to get a ticket, it's rated on a scale from one to 10, one being not the best, 10 being the best. So you can tell if the money you are spending is worth the seat. You can get tickets today on the site or in the app. Use code therapist for 10% off. Thank you SeatGeek for sponsoring tonight's episode and I hope everybody who wants to or maybe hasn't been yet, has a beautiful festival season and you can do that using SeatGeek.
31:27 Speaker 06 I couldn't be more excited for people to watch the show because the, the score that her and Nora put together is so like singular and great and cool and nothing I could have ever thought about.
31:41 Speaker 03 It's just, it really makes the show, for me, it made the show so much cooler, her score.
31:49 Speaker 06 Well, yeah, I'm not a cool person.
31:51 Speaker 03 I think it, well, I think you're-
31:52 Speaker 06 I'm not fishing for compliments.
31:53 Speaker 03 Well, I think you're pretty cool.
31:54 Speaker 06 Thanks, but not like that. Like I, I, I'm, I, I could never do what she does. And I think part of the great thing about making things is that you get access to people who are like cooler than you.
32:09 Speaker 03 Right.
32:10 Speaker 06 And you bring these people together and you hope that the combination of all of these different perspectives will make something special. And in this case, it really did.
32:20 Speaker 03 Did you feel that way about Schitt's Creek? Because Schitt's Creek didn't really take off until season three, right?
32:28 Speaker 06 I don't think it really took off until we had finished season six.
32:31 Speaker 03 You think so?
32:32 Speaker 06 Yeah.
32:33 Speaker 03 Oh, wow.
32:33 Speaker 06 I remember writing and writing the final episode of Schitt's Creek just as I was sensing culture was like-
32:43 Speaker 06 Into it.
32:44 Speaker 03 It's very rare that that can happen these days.
32:47 Speaker 06 We had no interference.
32:48 Speaker 03 Because people don't, people cancel shows after one season now.
32:51 Speaker 06 Oh.
32:51 Speaker 03 They have no.
32:52 Speaker 06 Shits would have been canceled after three episodes.
32:55 Speaker 03 You think so?
32:55 Speaker 06 Yeah. I think it was so strange, like the choices were really strange. It wasn't a fast paced show. It's a, you have to kind of sit back and like get into it. And also so much of the show is foundation laying. So like that first season is ultimately setting up like who these people were in order for us to earn who they become. And we're now so obsessed with like, if it doesn't hit in the first 48 hours, like.
33:24 Speaker 03 Right.
33:25 Speaker 06 Burn in hell.
33:26 Speaker 03 Right.
33:27 Speaker 06 You, I felt so grateful to like be able to tell a story because part of it, part of why I think people love Schitt's Creek is you earn the emotional turns.
33:36 Speaker 03 Yes, yes.
33:38 Speaker 06 There's never a point where we're asking an audience member to like care where we haven't earned that emotional turn.
33:45 Speaker 03 Right.
33:46 Speaker 06 And you gotta lay the foundation for that.
33:48 Speaker 03 Yeah.
33:48 Speaker 06 You can't expect an audience to cry for a character when they just met them. That comes with time, but time is the hardest thing to find now in entertainment.
33:59 Speaker 03 How did you feel as though you got lucky enough to have those seasons before it took off?
34:04 Speaker 06 Well, we were just lucky in the sense that we had a network in Canada that really needed us. And we had a teeny tiny, teeny, teeny tiny network in America that needed us.
34:15 Speaker 03 What network was it in America?
34:16 Speaker 06 It was called Pop TV.
34:18 Speaker 03 That's what Schitt's Creek was on?
34:18 Speaker 06 It was the former TV Guide network.
34:21 Speaker 03 I remember TV Guide.
34:22 Speaker 06 That's right. It was like a, it was a standard definition, like, like grid of what television was on TV. It wasn't, by the time it flipped over to pop and we were on TV, we were in standard definition in most homes. When like standard definition, when people's TVs.
34:39 Speaker 03 You were in SD.
34:39 Speaker 06 We were in, yeah. Your TV was HD, we were like, it was like watching an episode of Sex and the City.
34:45 Speaker 03 Right.
34:47 Speaker 06 We just found a spot that like, we found places that wanted us. And that's how we were able to stay on the air. I think if we were on an actual network, we would have been canceled immediately.
34:59 Speaker 03 It's so crazy to hear that because when I, when I think of a show like that, that takes time to grow, I also think of like Breaking Bad. Breaking Bad didn't take off until season three. Season three, season four, and it's like, if only we gave that same grace to all these new shows coming out.
35:16 Speaker 06 I think you have to believe in people. That to me is like, we've lost that relationship between
35:27 Speaker 06 creators and the space to like, try things. Because it's such an immediate, like if it doesn't hit instantly, it's done. But think about how many, think about the potential of how many shows or,
35:43 Speaker 06 you know, I don't know, that just didn't get the chance because God forbid their first season be still trying to figure out what it is.
35:52 Speaker 03 Like The Wilds, have you ever seen The Wilds?
35:54 Speaker 06 No.
35:55 Speaker 03 It's Sarah Pigeon.
35:56 Speaker 06 Oh.
35:57 Speaker 03 Yes, and it's, it's, I think it was only on for two seasons, and that third season, because the first season was the girls were stranded on this island, the second season where these boys were stranded on this island, and the third season was gonna merge everyone, and it got canceled before they could do it. I know.
36:15 Speaker 06 I think Industry is the same way.
36:17 Speaker 03 I mean, talk about my favorite show.
36:18 Speaker 06 Season four of Industry?
36:20 Speaker 03 I am not caught up yet, is it amazing?
36:22 Speaker 06 What?
36:22 Speaker 03 No, I, I'm not caught, wait, are they on season five right now or four?
36:25 Speaker 06 No, four.
36:26 Speaker 03 Yeah, I'm not caught up.
36:26 Speaker 06 You haven't seen the last season of Industry?
36:28 Speaker 03 I have not, I'm waiting to binge it.
36:29 Speaker 06 I don't want to bring shame into this room.
36:31 Speaker 03 No, well, it's here already.
36:32 Speaker 06 I don't want to bring it in, I don't want you to feel it.
36:35 Speaker 03 Is it that good? Because I watched seasons one through three, and she's seen it twice.
36:39 Speaker 06 Last season? Episode two of the last season?
36:43 Speaker 03 Oh, I've heard, I've heard, I've heard, I've heard.
36:45 Speaker 06 Is one of the most, it's masterful episodes of TV I think I've ever seen.
36:50 Speaker 03 You think Emmy time?
36:51 Speaker 06 If it's not Emmy time,
36:53 Speaker 03 Yeah.
36:53 Speaker 06 I will be out there with a sign boycotting.
36:56 Speaker 03 Justice for industry.
36:58 Speaker 06 The cat, also, you're dealing with like a young cast of actors that are in there like just crushing.
37:06 Speaker 03 Yeah. It's fucking electric.
37:09 Speaker 06 It's, ah, it's also like, it's the hottest TV on TV.
37:17 Speaker 03 I know.
37:17 Speaker 06 It's so hot.
37:20 Speaker 03 I'm like, wow, I want to hook up with people and like do drugs and dance.
37:23 Speaker 06 Ken Harrington, are you out of your mind?
37:25 Speaker 03 Doesn't he turn like slightly gay?
37:27 Speaker 06 Yeah, they like, yeah, they go there-ish.
37:30 Speaker 03 That's gonna send me.
37:31 Speaker 06 Not enough for me, but.
37:32 Speaker 03 Yeah, that's gonna send me into psychosis.
37:33 Speaker 06 It really, I was alone when I watched it.
37:36 Speaker 03 I was, that was like when I.
37:37 Speaker 06 I couldn't be with anyone when I watched that episode.
37:40 Speaker 03 That's like when I watched He Did Rivalry and like, I remember like pre-heated rivalry and like post. And my friend, my best friend, who's gay, called me and said, because it was, you know, those two weeks in winter? Where it's like, um, December, it's like between New Year's and Christmas and like, it's just a very like.
37:58 Speaker 06 Yeah, yeah, no man's land.
37:59 Speaker 03 No man's land.
38:00 Speaker 06 Uh huh.
38:00 Speaker 03 He said, Jake, just like, maybe I would, if you could watch heated rivalry after New Year's. I really think for you, like, you would, you would, you would need that, like, just like, no, you can't be, you can't watch this and then be alone.
38:14 Speaker 06 I see.
38:14 Speaker 03 And I, and I did, and.
38:15 Speaker 06 He was more concerned about the aftermath of having watched.
38:18 Speaker 03 For my mental health and Louise calls it the great crash out of 2026.
38:22 Speaker 06 It was everyone's great crash out, I think.
38:23 Speaker 03 It was, it was, I think I was put into genuine psychosis.
38:27 Speaker 06 Okay. It's fun. It's definitely fun to play with that.
38:31 Speaker 03 Yeah.
38:31 Speaker 06 I had a really good time with the like romance and shits. We, we had some like, you're about to find out.
38:37 Speaker 03 I know, I'm so excited.
38:38 Speaker 06 We had a great time.
38:39 Speaker 03 Yeah.
38:40 Speaker 06 Yeah.
38:40 Speaker 03 Would you, did you guys do a lot of improv in that show?
38:43 Speaker 06 No.
38:44 Speaker 03 In Shit's Creek, you didn't do a lot of improv?
38:47 Speaker 06 We would improvise like maybe the, the way into a scene or the way out, but we would never, like, the scenes were written.
38:54 Speaker 03 Do you, what was a scene that you remember that like Catherine like made you break, break?
39:01 Speaker 06 It was the very first episode that we were shooting and I think at one point she's lost a tennis bracelet.
39:09 Speaker 03 Yes.
39:09 Speaker 06 And she's screaming around the motel room, looking for a tennis bracelet. And again, we didn't know, when Annie and I walked into that room, we didn't know what she would do. So we walked into the room and at one point she starts screaming and she opens a drawer trying to look for this tennis bracelet. And I guess there had happened to be a light bulb from like a crew member that was switching a light bulb out.
39:34 Speaker 03 Uh huh.
39:35 Speaker 06 So it just like, it wasn't a planted prop, it was just something she found. And she pulled out this light bulb and started screaming at the light bulb.
39:42 Speaker 03 Yeah.
39:43 Speaker 06 And if you go back and watch that episode, you can see that I'm doing like, um, what's that Bill Hader character on SNL where he's just like constantly? Which one?
39:53 Speaker 03 Stefan.
39:54 Speaker 06 Stefan. I'm Stefan-ing through that entire scene just because I couldn't. And then it got to a point where it's like, I think it's funny that characters find other characters in TV funny.
40:04 Speaker 03 Right.
40:05 Speaker 06 So I started just leaning into the fact that like, if I find this funny.
40:10 Speaker 03 Uh huh.
40:11 Speaker 06 Then maybe David found this funny. And maybe the audience gets to like, have a bit of a, is it the actor or is it the character? But I think it's like, we laugh at our friends.
40:23 Speaker 03 Yeah.
40:24 Speaker 06 So much of comedy, you notice that the characters themselves don't think that the other person is, what they're doing is funny?
40:31 Speaker 03 Mm-hmm.
40:32 Speaker 06 So there was this added layer for all of us where I just started saying to people like, if you think it's, if you're gonna laugh, laugh.
40:38 Speaker 03 Right, just laugh.
40:39 Speaker 06 Your character will find it funny.
40:40 Speaker 03 Wow, I think that's what really has helped make the show so unique because that actually is something I picked up on. And that's why when you said you don't break, I'm like, cause I feel like sometimes when I'm watching shit.
40:51 Speaker 06 No, it's a cheat. If you, if, yeah.
40:53 Speaker 03 Yeah.
40:54 Speaker 06 If breaking is part of your character, then you don't break.
40:56 Speaker 03 My favorite thing.
40:57 Speaker 06 I also just totally lied to your face when I said I don't break that often.
41:00 Speaker 03 I know you did.
41:01 Speaker 06 It was a lie.
41:02 Speaker 03 I know you did.
41:03 Speaker 06 And we're getting around to the fact that I just lied and I am reconciling that.
41:06 Speaker 03 No, it's okay. My thing with lying is if you say you lied, then it's not a lie anymore.
41:11 Speaker 06 Well, I also think it's like, sometimes you say something you believe were the case and it's a lie.
41:18 Speaker 03 Oh, you're speaking like a true liar.
41:20 Speaker 06 Yeah.
41:20 Speaker 03 You're speaking like a true liar.
41:22 Speaker 06 Yeah, well, I just lied.
41:23 Speaker 03 Yeah, and that's okay.
41:25 Speaker 06 And that's okay.
41:25 Speaker 03 And that's okay.
41:26 Speaker 06 I feel accepted.
41:27 Speaker 03 But that's why I told you I was on my first watch of Shit. I called Louise and I said, Louise, I'm so anxious that I have not seen this show in full. And she's like, I think you should just tell him that you're on your first watch of it. So that's me doing this right now.
41:41 Speaker 06 A hundred percent, but I also don't.
41:43 Speaker 03 I know you don't care.
41:44 Speaker 06 Yeah.
41:44 Speaker 03 But they will.
41:46 Speaker 06 Will they?
41:47 Speaker 03 Oh, yes, people ride for that show like, like that show is, like, when I bring up Shit's Creek to people, they're like, that show has gotten me through the hardest times of my entire life. Like, I've never seen such passion around a show before.
42:02 Speaker 06 I think it was, I mean, it came to life in the pandemic. And it's about a family that's forced into living in small, close quarters with each other and essentially into a kind of quarantine. So I think there was a combination of like, the show dropping at a point when people themselves could see bits of their own relationships in it.
42:24 Speaker 03 Right.
42:25 Speaker 06 So I do think that the circumstance, as unfortunate as it was, helped a layer of connection exist that might not have been there had the show been out when there wasn't.
42:38 Speaker 03 Yeah, the pandemic.
42:39 Speaker 06 A global plague.
42:40 Speaker 03 The pandemic, it's so weird thinking about the pandemic because in parts, I'm like, it's weird to say I'm grateful for it.
42:46 Speaker 06 Uh huh.
42:47 Speaker 03 But in like a weird way, I kind of am.
42:50 Speaker 06 There were days where I was like, this is heaven. I mean, it wasn't, obviously.
42:55 Speaker 03 Right, it was.
42:56 Speaker 06 But as an introvert.
42:58 Speaker 03 Yeah.
42:58 Speaker 06 Who likes to spend a lot of time at home.
43:00 Speaker 03 You're an introvert?
43:01 Speaker 06 Oh, yeah.
43:02 Speaker 03 Wow, I did not know that about you.
43:04 Speaker 06 Very anxious socially.
43:05 Speaker 03 Okay, I had, I've never in my life had real social anxiety. And the other night I went out.
43:13 Speaker 06 What does that feel like?
43:14 Speaker 03 Um, I felt like I was walking into a room.
43:19 Speaker 06 Oh, this is the other night when you did experience social anxiety?
43:22 Speaker 03 I wa- oh, you're- would say like to not. Um, you're just kind of like.
43:26 Speaker 06 Like if someone said, I'm at a party.
43:28 Speaker 03 Yeah.
43:29 Speaker 06 And you didn't know anyone at this party. You wouldn't think twice about like, when I arrive at this party, I need to instantly know where those people are so that I don't have to like, what if people look at me walking into this party and be like, who is this person? Why are they here? That's what goes on in my mind.
43:46 Speaker 03 So those thoughts exist for everyone, but for people without really intense social anxiety, I think the thought is more passing than like, um, concrete.
43:54 Speaker 06 Right.
43:54 Speaker 03 So like, I have that thought, but then I just do it.
43:57 Speaker 06 Got it.
43:58 Speaker 03 As opposed to the other night, I was looking around and I was like, I need to get the fuck out of here.
44:06 Speaker 06 Anyway, it was a party.
44:08 Speaker 03 Right, and I, I walked into the room, and I was fine for most of the night, and then all of a sudden, everyone was dancing, and I was looking at each group of people dancing, and I was like-
44:18 Speaker 06 How many people were there? Set the scene.
44:19 Speaker 03 Like a hundred, and I, and I couldn't be like, yeah, I couldn't be like, I don't, uh, like, which group do I dance with? And I was too like conscious of my own being that I was like, you know what? This is the first time I'm really experiencing the social anxiety that people speak of. I have to go home.
44:36 Speaker 06 I also give you credit for having more than one group that you could dance with.
44:40 Speaker 03 No, but I couldn't. I don't think. I, I mean, I could have. I could have walked up and been like, hey, it's me.
44:45 Speaker 06 I feel like you, of all people, can do that.
44:48 Speaker 03 Really? Well, because I'm sure and unassuming.
44:51 Speaker 06 No, I think you're incredibly charming and people want to be around you.
44:56 Speaker 03 Wow, thank you so much.
44:57 Speaker 06 Well, you know that.
44:58 Speaker 03 I some, I really don't sometimes.
45:00 Speaker 06 Okay, sometimes.
45:01 Speaker 03 I really, no, I really, I really-
45:03 Speaker 06 Sometimes you do that.
45:04 Speaker 03 I really feel very annoying sometimes. Did you, have you ever felt that way in your life?
45:08 Speaker 06 I feel annoying every single day.
45:10 Speaker 03 I really feel, well, and then it's hard when people online are like, no, you are annoying.
45:14 Speaker 06 Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. You'll read one comment, you'll see people like saying the nicest things, and then one comment that speaks to a thought you've actually had, and you're like, that's it. That person with an anonymous-
45:26 Speaker 03 Yep.
45:27 Speaker 06 Bot inter-
45:27 Speaker 03 They got me. They got me.
45:29 Speaker 06 They know exactly who I am.
45:30 Speaker 03 It's that scene in Girls where Lena Dunham says, everything you could have possibly, you could possibly say to me have said to myself already in the last 10 minutes.
45:36 Speaker 06 That's right.
45:37 Speaker 03 And that's, that's, but I, and I really felt that the other week. Like, I was reading stuff and I was like, ooh, I feel that way.
45:44 Speaker 06 I also think that the press cycle at this point is such a tornado that if, if something works, like for shits, we, we were, I mean, you know, you get into the kind of- Cycle of of people wanting to talk to you because your show's a hit. And then the more you talk, the more you speak. And then the more you speak, the more you're aware of yourself speaking. And then by the end of it, I was so kind of embarrassed of the level of exposure that I had.
46:17 Speaker 03 Yeah.
46:17 Speaker 06 That it's almost permanently scarred my relationship to like myself in a way. A lot of the therapy that I'm doing is like, no, you're not embarrassing.
46:27 Speaker 03 Was there a moment that really stuck with you?
46:30 Speaker 06 It's not a moment, but it, you can see it happen. Like someone goes from like making something that's cool, that catches on. Then there's the like photo shoot cycle. Where suddenly it's like a million photo shoots and now we're whatever. Then you go through like a, a, a cycle of talking about your work. And when you talk about your work and people pedestalize your work, then you start to talk about the like, how profound your work is, which you've never thought about before. Then you start to talk about, okay, well, you like, I guess I am doing something important. And then when the dust settles of all of it, you're like, what a clown.
47:10 Speaker 03 Really?
47:10 Speaker 06 For me at least, yeah. I, I, I think I walked away from when the Emmys happened. And we, we want, I mean, I said it in my Emmy speech, which breaks my heart.
47:24 Speaker 03 What'd you say?
47:24 Speaker 06 I actually said when I won my last Emmy of the night, can't believe I, can't believe that's a sentence.
47:31 Speaker 03 That was awesome.
47:32 Speaker 06 I think I said, I, I apologized.
47:37 Speaker 03 For just being?
47:38 Speaker 06 Because I was so aware that this was the moment when people were going to say, okay, they have too much.
47:48 Speaker 03 Wow.
47:50 Speaker 06 And I was aware of it in real time, and it's one of the big heartbreaks, was the fact that culture, or the way that we respond to people's success, can sometimes be vicious after a certain point. It's like you see it with people. It's like, we lift them up, we lift them up, we lift them up, we lift them up. And then at some point, there's a tipping point where the media decides, okay, they've had enough.
48:15 Speaker 03 Why do you think that is?
48:17 Speaker 06 Because you can't, the balloon can't stay afloat forever.
48:21 Speaker 03 Right.
48:21 Speaker 06 It's just how this works. And I think, I remember in that moment, feeling insecure. And then I heard a conversation that was happening publicly, there was a podcast that happened where someone was saying like, that I didn't deserve all that I got. And I thought, again, it's that moment of like, oh, someone sees me.
48:46 Speaker 03 Yes, yeah.
48:49 Speaker 06 And it took me a long time to realize, I did deserve what I got. And also, I was hearing this from another gay person, and I thought, more than anything else, if I win, you win.
49:07 Speaker 03 Yeah.
49:07 Speaker 06 If I get to make more things, you get to do more things. The more that culture sees us succeeding, the more they want to give us things. And it's very short sighted, because it's like, oh, this is a hit, let's recreate it. But I remember at the time thinking like, damn. Okay, I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a take. You're entitled to it.
49:30 Speaker 03 Gays are really hard on other gays.
49:31 Speaker 06 But like, man, when was the last time, like, a gay person
49:38 Speaker 06 set a record at the Emmys?
49:39 Speaker 03 Right.
49:41 Speaker 06 Why is, why are we not celebrating that? And I'm not asking people to like blindly support my work, but I always think when there's a real success that is part of the community, like, that is a win for all of us.
49:53 Speaker 03 I also find that, like, the most
49:58 Speaker 03 Uh, like, specific, uh, like, hate, hatred, I get. If I, if I encounter it, it's from another gay guy.
50:07 Speaker 06 Yeah.
50:08 Speaker 03 And I really, I don't know what it is, and it really, it hurts more than anyone else saying anything to me. And I don't know why.
50:17 Speaker 06 I think it's because we're still under the, it's like, a lot of my, like, actress friends say that some of the some of the worst moments in their lives, where they felt the worst, came from other women. And you look at a cultural stand, like, it, I think it's a cultural thing. I think we are indoctrinated to believe that there's only so many spaces for people who are not
50:42 Speaker 06 straight and white and male.
50:44 Speaker 03 Right.
50:44 Speaker 06 And so everyone else has kind of grown up with this sort of belief that, like, if I happen to make it, it's against the odds, and I don't want to lose that.
50:57 Speaker 03 And you've taken the spot that could have been mine.
50:59 Speaker 06 I have to believe that it's a part of that, which is why I have a lot of empathy for it, because I think, well, this is all part of the culture, being marginalized, is this belief that, like, I'm gonna start to feel insecure if someone like me succeeds and it's not me.
51:19 Speaker 03 Did you bring any of that insight into creating Big Mistakes and your character in Big Mistakes?
51:26 Speaker 06 No, I, no, I, I just, for me, it's always about, like, tell the story, focus on the story, it's, it's what worked for me on shits. I never thought about the audience, I never thought about other people's expectations. I think the minute a writer's room starts to think about what the audience wants, they lose the plot.
51:45 Speaker 03 Okay.
51:46 Speaker 06 Because...
51:48 Speaker 06 I think a lot of times, what the character wants and needs is not what the audience wants for the character.
51:57 Speaker 06 And it's hard to keep the noise out.
51:59 Speaker 03 How do you practice that?
52:01 Speaker 06 You just have to shut it out and care about the story you're telling. You know what I mean? Like, you know more about the story you're telling than anyone else. You know why a character should do something, or say something, or make the decisions they make. Because it's a guttural, instinctual thing. Like... So for an audience who's like, "Gosh, I really hope they stay together." Sometimes it doesn't benefit the character for them to stay together. It benefits the audience. But if you earn it, that choice... I mean, we made some decisions on Shits that I think went against audience expectations, but I have to believe they were the right decisions.
52:38 Speaker 03 Right. It's like, I mean, this is so, so minor, but it's like, when they were looking for David, and I thought he was gonna be in New York. And he was on an Amish farm.
52:49 Speaker 06 No, he's too scared to be in New York. He would never have gone that far.
52:52 Speaker 03 But I would assume that they were going to New York.
52:55 Speaker 06 That's right. No.
52:56 Speaker 03 And he's...
52:57 Speaker 06 He did not have the savvy to get to New York, unfortunately. Him and his, like, helmet-laying, mohawk hoodie could only get so far.
53:06 Speaker 03 Again, they got somewhere.
53:09 Speaker 06 They did get somewhere.
53:10 Speaker 03 Yeah.
53:10 Speaker 06 Yeah.
53:11 Speaker 03 Well, I just like, thanks for saying that, because I am working on a show for the first time.
53:17 Speaker 06 Okay.
53:19 Speaker 06 Oh, wait, you're working with Paul Briganti?
53:22 Speaker 03 Don't even put... I love Paul Briganti. Yes!
53:24 Speaker 06 Paul is the greatest.
53:26 Speaker 03 Of all time!
53:27 Speaker 06 I know.
53:28 Speaker 03 He's amazing. He's amazing. I met him on a commercial shoot.
53:32 Speaker 06 And like, couldn't be nicer, couldn't be more generous of spirit.
53:35 Speaker 03 Yes. And he...
53:36 Speaker 06 Such a cheerleader and a champion for like, ideas that he loves. Yeah.
53:40 Speaker 03 Yeah, and he... The way we got to making the show was, I was like, basically very self-deprecating in like, my life and my experience. He was like, "This is so funny, this is a show." And now, my worry is that all I can think about is what people are gonna think of it.
53:56 Speaker 06 You can't.
53:56 Speaker 03 I know. And so you just saying that just now...
53:59 Speaker 06 Here's the key. You gotta come out of the experience with closure. And the only way you can win is if you do, if you make exactly what you want to make. Because at the end of the day, if people don't like it, fine. But the biggest heartbreak is if you compromise your idea and dilute it to the point where it's accessible to people, or you've made concessions for whoever's making it. Like, you can't get that back. You can't get the idea of like, when you put your head on your pillow at night, the show has to be exactly what you want to make it, like what you want it to be.
54:41 Speaker 06 Otherwise, you're gonna go to bed and think, gosh, if I had only held out, if I had only fought more, maybe it would have been different. You gotta like, fight for the things you believe in, because that's, that's it.
54:56 Speaker 03 Right, have you ever had that experience?
54:58 Speaker 06 Yeah, of course you have it all the time. I think that's part of making TV. You're, you know, in a creative process with people, they have the things that they want to be worked in, you have the things that you want to be worked in. I also have a real like, I don't like pandering. And I think we're in this, we're in a culture now where like, nobody has faith in the audience. Everyone believes that we are like, on four different screens, and maybe we are. I don't want to make TV for someone who's not watching my show.
55:33 Speaker 03 Right.
55:34 Speaker 06 I want to make TV that makes me feel good and makes me laugh, because there, again, there's closure.
55:41 Speaker 03 Yeah.
55:42 Speaker 06 You've made the thing you want to make, great. If it works, if it doesn't work, that is outside of the world of you making the show you want to make. So, shut the doors and make sure that the show that you're making right now is exactly what you want to make. Because, opinions aside, that's all you have at the end of the day.
56:02 Speaker 03 I know, I think for me, the, what I get scared about is, because I came up on the internet.
56:10 Speaker 06 Yeah.
56:10 Speaker 03 And, and like, cancel culture is so like...
56:17 Speaker 03 Like, like pariah based, that like, I'm so scared that if someone hates what I do, and that they hate something I've said, or hate something I do, that I will lose my whole job. And I'll lose everything. And so that's why I constantly think about like, the audience is because I'm like, well, number one, I care if they like it, because I care if people like me. And number two is, I'm scared if they don't like it, and they don't like it enough, that I'll get in trouble. And I'll lose everything.
56:48 Speaker 06 Well, I, I, I appreciate your thought processes. It is practically impossible that that would be the case. You will never lose your job. You're too good at your job to lose your job. It's about protecting your idea. People like what they don't know that they want. Think about anything that's broken in culture. You could not have predicted it. There's no algorithmic, sort of math equation that could have led to any of the things we have come to really, really love. I've been there. I know exactly what you're talking about.
57:25 Speaker 03 You do?
57:25 Speaker 06 The threat of like, losing what you have by making some kind of mistake, is an illusion.
57:34 Speaker 03 You think so?
57:34 Speaker 06 I think so. Because I think if you actually believed that, you would be pedestalizing your ego in a way that is unhealthy.
57:43 Speaker 03 Okay, so I'm a little stupid. So what do you mean by pedestalizing your ego?
57:47 Speaker 06 Like, meaning, I don't even know what that means. I was just like, I mean, no, I do. You would be prioritizing your, you would be putting your ego on a pedestal. Being like, I care about what people think of me. I care about this being a success. I ca- All of those things are fine, but they can't be what drives you through this show.
58:05 Speaker 03 Right.
58:06 Speaker 06 Again, everything that I have loved has been an anomaly, including my own show.
58:12 Speaker 03 Right.
58:13 Speaker 06 Nobody in America wanted to make Schitt's Creek. We took it out to every network, every streaming service. No, no, no, no, across the board.
58:22 Speaker 03 Even with Catherine attached?
58:24 Speaker 06 Oh, yeah.
58:25 Speaker 03 Wow.
58:25 Speaker 06 Nobody wanted to make it. So we made it on our own up in Canada, with no intervention of create a people's, well, the first 10 seconds have to be really, really action packed, because you have to rope your audience in. We were free. And all we did was make a show we wanted to watch and wanted to be a part of. That's it. You can't control anything outside of that. And it worked. And now people are wanting to make, what's the next Schitt's Creek?
58:56 Speaker 03 Yeah.
58:56 Speaker 06 It's not about what the next Schitt's Creek is. It's about prioritizing people whose ideas are good. And not being scared that they're not mainstream enough for an audience to understand. Let the audience catch up. Because the act of an audience playing catch up with something you're making, only builds stronger ties to the thing that you're making.
59:18 Speaker 03 It's just like, I feel like all goes back to, like if you believe in something and you believe it's good, and you don't seem, don't seem bothered by other opinions.
59:29 Speaker 06 Yeah.
59:30 Speaker 03 People are, it's like, I always relate it to, when you find someone annoying, you meet someone and you're like, this person is so annoying. And then you're with them for like a few days. And then the next day, they're still annoying, but they're still doing the thing that annoyed you, but they haven't changed, like they haven't changed, based on the fact that you think they're annoying. So then you start to respect them, and then you start to appreciate them.
59:52 Speaker 06 Yeah.
59:52 Speaker 03 And like, that's how I feel it is with culture and people in culture.
59:56 Speaker 06 Yeah. You have to just know that you made the show you want to make. That's it. That's it.
1:00:04 Speaker 03 Well, thank you for that.
1:00:06 Speaker 06 Tooth and nail to make sure that you preserve whatever it is you want to make.
1:00:11 Speaker 03 I will.
1:00:11 Speaker 06 And there is, there should be a line that you draw, in terms of if someone says, well, what about, could we just? You have to know where the line is.
1:00:20 Speaker 03 Right.
1:00:20 Speaker 06 Because once you cross that line, it doesn't become your show anymore. You're making something else.
1:00:24 Speaker 03 For other, for not myself.
1:00:26 Speaker 06 Who knows?
1:00:27 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:00:27 Speaker 06 Who, I don't even think they know.
1:00:28 Speaker 03 Right.
1:00:29 Speaker 06 They're making television for an audience that nobody, I mean, no one could have seen Heated Rivalry coming.
1:00:34 Speaker 03 Right, and that, another Canada.
1:00:36 Speaker 06 Think about that pitch.
1:00:37 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:00:39 Speaker 06 And now everyone's like, uh, gay butt kissing.
1:00:43 Speaker 03 Right, right, right.
1:00:44 Speaker 06 It's not about that.
1:00:45 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:00:46 Speaker 06 It was the idea. And the idea was not something that anyone wanted to make outside of Canada.
1:00:52 Speaker 03 Canada's always with it.
1:00:53 Speaker 06 Well, they, because it's a smaller market, you can take risks.
1:00:59 Speaker 03 You grew up in Canada, right? Toronto.
1:01:01 Speaker 06 Yeah.
1:01:01 Speaker 03 Do you, do you miss it?
1:01:03 Speaker 06 I do miss it. I was just back there.
1:01:04 Speaker 03 It's wonderful.
1:01:05 Speaker 06 I saw you wearing a
1:01:06 Speaker 03 Maple Leafs.
1:01:07 Speaker 06 Maple Leafs jersey.
1:01:08 Speaker 03 We were, uh,
1:01:09 Speaker 06 Where, how did?
1:01:10 Speaker 03 We, I was, we was filming something and they brought all the cast to
1:01:15 Speaker 06 A Maple Leafs game.
1:01:15 Speaker 03 Maple Leafs game during the blizzard. Like, do you remember the blizzard that just happened? So it was like, oh my God, it was like, honestly, like, looking back at it, one of the best times of my life. Like, we were like, walking outside in this blizzard to this Maple Leafs game. I felt like I was in heated rivalry. And then, like, I was, like, talking to this guy, I'm so male-centered. So the fact that I was, like, in conversation with the guy while this was all happening.
1:01:36 Speaker 06 Oh, wow, bliss.
1:01:37 Speaker 03 Was bliss.
1:01:37 Speaker 06 Yeah.
1:01:38 Speaker 03 It was bliss.
1:01:39 Speaker 06 Bliss.
1:01:39 Speaker 03 And I love Canada. I love everyone. So nice there, Tim Hortons.
1:01:42 Speaker 06 Tim Hortons. Cruelers.
1:01:45 Speaker 03 What?
1:01:45 Speaker 06 Crueler?
1:01:46 Speaker 03 What's that?
1:01:47 Speaker 06 It's a donut.
1:01:48 Speaker 03 Okay.
1:01:48 Speaker 06 It's like a twisted, sort of, uh, how do you describe a cruler? It's like a twisted donut, but it has a different consistency.
1:01:56 Speaker 03 You Canadian too? Well, you know, I love Canada.
1:01:58 Speaker 06 Honorarily, I guess, now.
1:02:00 Speaker 03 Canada is the best. The food's great, people are great.
1:02:03 Speaker 06 Yeah, Toronto's great.
1:02:04 Speaker 03 Toronto's great. It's where they went in The Handmaid's Tale when everyone was being held captive here.
1:02:08 Speaker 06 That is right.
1:02:08 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:02:09 Speaker 06 A haven.
1:02:09 Speaker 03 It was, it's, Canada is a safe haven.
1:02:15 Speaker 03 This episode of Therapist is brought to you by Booking.com. Booking dot
1:02:21 Speaker 03 Well, as I said in SeatGeek, it is festival season, which means you might be traveling. It is also summer, so you are hopefully traveling if you are able to. And Booking.com makes traveling as easy as possible. It makes the basis of your trip, which is finding a place to stay and finding a place to sleep, easy. Especially if you are traveling with a group, everybody has different preferences. Like, some may want a pool, some may want walking distance, some may want a tub, some may want a shower. And you could put all that in on Booking.com. will help you find the perfect place or hotel for your stay. It also can help you like fully round out your trip. If you need to rent a car, like whatever you need, booking.com has it. As I've said a million and one times, it has really helped my travels. I know me and my friends are planning, planning summer trips right now.
1:03:05 Speaker 03 And we are using booking.com because we are all very particular in where we like to stay and what we need. And I've said this before, but when I was on tour, Matt would literally like we'd pull up to a city and Matt would book it on booking.com. He would have our preferences, find a hotel and book it. And it really just like takes away that anxiety from exploring a new place. So it like almost allows you to fully immerse yourself into where you're going. Because you don't need to worry about where you're staying because booking.com has it covered. Find exactly what you're booking for at booking.com. Booking dot. Book today on the site or in the app.
1:03:41 Speaker 03 Dan, what are you therapist about today?
1:03:43 Speaker 06 I believe there should be one flight a day.
1:03:49 Speaker 06 That does not have children on it.
1:03:54 Speaker 03 Yeah. And so like, what do you mean by that?
1:03:58 Speaker 06 Please don't.
1:03:59 Speaker 03 No, I, I agree. I agree. I see you.
1:04:02 Speaker 06 Listen, I love children. I would just, I, I think, and this has, I understand the plight of, of parents with young kids. My sister has a three year old, totally understand not being lacking in empathy for parents. I think there should just be one.
1:04:20 Speaker 03 We matter too.
1:04:20 Speaker 06 Flight a day.
1:04:22 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:04:22 Speaker 06 Where if you are spending your hard earned money on an airline seat, that you don't have a screaming baby beside you. I'm not saying take them off the airplanes. I'm simply saying, or even one a week. I'll take one a week. Give me.
1:04:38 Speaker 03 I preferred your one a day.
1:04:39 Speaker 06 Okay.
1:04:39 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:04:40 Speaker 06 But like the concept of having.
1:04:44 Speaker 06 And this is, again, I feel like people are so, this is a real hot button issue.
1:04:48 Speaker 03 Oh, believe me, I know.
1:04:50 Speaker 06 So let me preface that, or I guess I've already said it.
1:04:54 Speaker 06 I love children.
1:04:58 Speaker 06 Give me one flight.
1:04:59 Speaker 03 One flight. I mean, I was on a flight-
1:05:00 Speaker 06 Especially a long haul. If it's an overnight, and you're spending the big money-
1:05:04 Speaker 03 And they're screaming.
1:05:05 Speaker 06 And all you want to do is sleep, or you're on a red eye.
1:05:08 Speaker 03 And my thing was, I flew Saturday morning from New York to LA. And I, when I have a morning flight-
1:05:15 Speaker 06 I'm doing that tonight. I'm on a red eye to New York tonight.
1:05:19 Speaker 03 Well, I don't sleep before, like, my morning flights. Like, if I, if I have, I had a-
1:05:23 Speaker 06 Of course, because you have to, the anxiety of getting up.
1:05:25 Speaker 03 Yes. Yes.
1:05:27 Speaker 06 It's the anxiety of getting up.
1:05:28 Speaker 03 And I was out all night, and I was like, you know what?
1:05:30 Speaker 06 Well, that's where we differ, but I understand the anxiety.
1:05:32 Speaker 03 I was shaking back and forth in my apartment, like, desperately trying to keep my eyes open, because I was so tired, but I knew that if I closed my eyes, I wouldn't get up.
1:05:40 Speaker 06 Well, there's also nothing more terrifying than missing a flight.
1:05:42 Speaker 03 Right.
1:05:43 Speaker 06 Or running through an airport.
1:05:44 Speaker 03 Right.
1:05:44 Speaker 06 I wish it on nobody.
1:05:46 Speaker 03 Um, hey, so the airports right now are-
1:05:49 Speaker 06 Hell.
1:05:50 Speaker 03 I get to JFK at 8:00 AM.
1:05:52 Speaker 06 What time's your flight?
1:05:53 Speaker 03 8:00 AM. People with, people with kids, like, "Please let me through." I'm like, "Oh, my God."
1:05:59 Speaker 06 Oh, no, it is-
1:06:00 Speaker 03 I feel like I'm in, like, they're trying to get into the bunker.
1:06:02 Speaker 06 End of times, end of days.
1:06:04 Speaker 03 It literally felt like the end of times.
1:06:05 Speaker 06 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:06:06 Speaker 03 But-
1:06:07 Speaker 06 It's Hunger Games.
1:06:08 Speaker 03 It is Hunger Games, but I got on the flight, and finally, I'm like, I haven't slept. I had the Paul McCartney show that night, and I was like, "I need to be, I need to sleep this entire flight so I can fully experience and not be tired." I closed my eyes, screaming, baby.
1:06:20 Speaker 06 That's it.
1:06:22 Speaker 03 Screaming, baby. And I said, "Why?"
1:06:24 Speaker 06 I, at one point, had a child doing this on the chair.
1:06:29 Speaker 03 Well, that's just disrespectful from the parent. Tell them stop.
1:06:31 Speaker 06 The parents were sitting right beside me, and I'm now looking at this kid, looking at the parents, looking back to the kid, looking back to the parents, and finally, I just said,
1:06:41 Speaker 06 "Are you gonna do something?" I feel, I mean, I feel great about everyone having kids. I do not want them for myself.
1:06:48 Speaker 03 I don't know if I do. If I do, I do want two, a boy and a girl.
1:06:51 Speaker 06 Oh, wow, you're really committing to it.
1:06:53 Speaker 03 Yes, the Adore and Annabelle.
1:06:56 Speaker 06 We've predetermined the names.
1:06:57 Speaker 03 Theo, for short, and Anna, Anna. My friend's name, growing up, one of my best friend's names was Anna, Annabelle, and we would call her Anna B.
1:07:05 Speaker 06 Oh, that's cute.
1:07:06 Speaker 03 And I thought it was so chic.
1:07:07 Speaker 06 Yeah.
1:07:07 Speaker 03 And Theodore just feels like a Kennedy name.
1:07:10 Speaker 06 Right. So you're raising royalty?
1:07:13 Speaker 03 That's what I hope to do, yes.
1:07:15 Speaker 06 Okay, understood.
1:07:16 Speaker 03 Okay, so, I don't know if you've seen this show before, but we do a section called Tell Me What's Wrongs, where the pussies submit questions and we give them advice.
1:07:26 Speaker 06 Great.
1:07:26 Speaker 03 Are you down for that?
1:07:27 Speaker 06 Absolutely.
1:07:28 Speaker 03 My girlfriend is totally out of my league, and it's finally starting to catch up to me. We've been dating for 15 months now, and I think she's starting to notice that she could do a lot better looks-wise. Help. I know it's like a, you just have to have confidence, blah, blah, blah. I don't want to hear that. I need active steps to prevent a breakup.
1:07:45 Speaker 06 Wow. Well...
1:07:47 Speaker 03 That was honest.
1:07:48 Speaker 06 That was honest, and he, from an outsider's perspective, if your partner is starting to realize that they're better looking than you, and that is, to them, a form of currency, I hate to break it, but it's not the right fit. I don't want that from a partner. I don't want to be in a relationship where, that's fear-based.
1:08:09 Speaker 03 I think that whoever this person is, their, their lack of confidence is making them see things that are possibly not there.
1:08:17 Speaker 06 That's right.
1:08:18 Speaker 03 Is what I think. And then maybe, those are, like, sometimes I've had to reconcile with the fact that I'm having these fears because those are my values.
1:08:29 Speaker 06 Real.
1:08:30 Speaker 03 You know what I mean? I'm like, I've been like, well, this person's gonna leave me because I'm not attractive enough, and then I'm like, but they've never said that or showed that to me. I'm thinking that because, would I do that? Do you know what I mean?
1:08:43 Speaker 06 So what are your steps for this person, then?
1:08:46 Speaker 03 Help.
1:08:47 Speaker 06 What kind of help?
1:08:48 Speaker 03 Just help.
1:08:51 Speaker 06 Like, just general help?
1:08:53 Speaker 03 Just help.
1:08:54 Speaker 06 Okay.
1:08:54 Speaker 03 Like, sit with what, like, what I just sat with. I would journal.
1:08:59 Speaker 06 Right.
1:09:00 Speaker 03 And honestly-
1:09:00 Speaker 06 And really determine whether it's in your head or a real-life thing.
1:09:04 Speaker 03 It's just a little awkward, because this person can't go to their partner and be like, "Do you think I'm ugly?" I would actually really start to note, but they can smell it off of you. They can smell insecurity.
1:09:15 Speaker 06 My best friend gave me the greatest piece of relationship advice. That changed my whole life, and it's very simple. And he asked me one question. I was in one of many toxic relationships. And he said, "Would this person run to you?"
1:09:30 Speaker 03 In what?
1:09:31 Speaker 06 Doesn't matter. Not walk, run. Would this person run to you? Because if they wouldn't, then they're not right.
1:09:41 Speaker 03 Right.
1:09:42 Speaker 06 I think that sums it right up. And it is the just, he's just not that into you theory. I think we all know what we're dealing with, deep down. And you can fight and fight and fight and fight for somebody that you're trying to win. But if that's the dynamic, you've lost.
1:09:59 Speaker 03 Because then, once you win, then you're unhappy with that.
1:10:01 Speaker 06 Find the person that will run to you. And it's hard to accept that, because so often, we date people who wouldn't, and hope that we can change them.
1:10:12 Speaker 03 Yeah. You can.
1:10:14 Speaker 06 But it's tough.
1:10:16 Speaker 03 You know what I prescribe?
1:10:17 Speaker 06 Yeah.
1:10:18 Speaker 03 You know the song "Old Money" by Lana Del Rey?
1:10:20 Speaker 06 Yes.
1:10:20 Speaker 03 Where she says, "I'll run to you, I'll run to you, I'll run." I prescribe that. Are you a Lana fan?
1:10:29 Speaker 06 Yeah.
1:10:30 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah. How excited are you for the new album?
1:10:32 Speaker 06 I'm excited for every new album. Again, a singular voice. She's not pandering to an audience.
1:10:38 Speaker 03 Ever, never.
1:10:39 Speaker 06 Ever.
1:10:40 Speaker 03 She created a whole genre.
1:10:42 Speaker 06 And she has a, she, she's carved her own path.
1:10:46 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:10:47 Speaker 06 And that's why we love her.
1:10:48 Speaker 03 I mean, I think some younger people today don't really realize the heat she took when Born to Die came out.
1:10:54 Speaker 06 Oh, yeah.
1:10:55 Speaker 03 It was like enemy number one.
1:10:57 Speaker 06 Yeah.
1:10:58 Speaker 03 Like she was enemy number one.
1:10:59 Speaker 06 Yeah, it is a legacy that has made open windows and doors for so many people.
1:11:04 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:11:05 Speaker 06 She doesn't care.
1:11:06 Speaker 03 Yeah, I prescribed Lana Del Rey.
1:11:07 Speaker 06 Okay, great.
1:11:08 Speaker 03 I took too many edibles with this really hot guy I'm trying to cuff and ended up greening out all over the inside of his car like projectile vomiting. Sad face. How do I get out of the vomit zone with him? IDK what to do. He was expectedly very grossed out. And unfortunately, I don't know if there's a comeback from that.
1:11:27 Speaker 06 Here's what's tough for me. I have a real tough time with smells.
1:11:32 Speaker 03 Oh, my God, me too.
1:11:34 Speaker 06 And the minute you assign a smell to a person, it's over.
1:11:37 Speaker 03 It's over. Whether that breath being bad, whether that be a fart.
1:11:41 Speaker 06 It's exactly it.
1:11:41 Speaker 03 It's over and I'm sorry and I, I, I could not agree with you more. I've struggled with that since I was a kid.
1:11:47 Speaker 06 So let's just hope that the partner has not assigned that smell to this person.
1:11:52 Speaker 03 Right.
1:11:53 Speaker 06 I think that's the only way that they can get through it.
1:11:55 Speaker 03 I, you know, I actually have found a new scent recently.
1:11:59 Speaker 06 Do tell.
1:11:59 Speaker 03 It is called Another Thirteen from Le Labo.
1:12:03 Speaker 06 Okay.
1:12:03 Speaker 03 And then they also have this new one all.
1:12:06 Speaker 06 Did you, when you were in Kyoto, did you get the Le Labo Kyoto exclusive?
1:12:11 Speaker 03 What?
1:12:12 Speaker 06 So Le Labo has a, Le Labo has a Kyoto, as they do also have a Tokyo, um, exclusive scent.
1:12:22 Speaker 03 I have to go back to Japan.
1:12:23 Speaker 06 You have to go back to Japan.
1:12:24 Speaker 03 Me and my best friend Alice were like, I think we fucked up.
1:12:28 Speaker 06 I have a real great itinerary that I can lay out.
1:12:30 Speaker 03 Yeah, that would've.
1:12:31 Speaker 06 But they have a, Le Labo's great.
1:12:32 Speaker 03 Yeah, Le Labo, yeah, but so I've been using Another Thirteen. I've also been using, I'll send it to you, this new perfume. It's their newest scent. It's unbelievable. It starts with an L.
1:12:40 Speaker 06 Okay.
1:12:41 Speaker 03 It's called Levant. It's unbelievable.
1:12:44 Speaker 06 Someone brought me back the Tokyo La Labo.
1:12:48 Speaker 03 And is it?
1:12:48 Speaker 06 It's called Gaic.
1:12:49 Speaker 03 Gaic?
1:12:50 Speaker 06 G A I C.
1:12:52 Speaker 03 Oh, got it, got it, got it.
1:12:54 Speaker 06 Not G A Y dash I C K.
1:12:57 Speaker 03 I thought you said gaying.
1:12:58 Speaker 06 That would be, that's tough. That's a PR nightmare, but no, uh, yeah. I've been using Molecule.
1:13:04 Speaker 03 What's Molecule?
1:13:05 Speaker 06 Molecule One.
1:13:06 Speaker 03 Is that La Labo?
1:13:07 Speaker 06 No, it's its own thing and it's like, it doesn't smell like anything, but it mixes with your pheromones and the like people who... So it's, it changes with everybody who wears it.
1:13:18 Speaker 03 So it makes you fuckable?
1:13:19 Speaker 06 God, I hope so.
1:13:21 Speaker 03 Okay. Help, is this an ick? I was on my fourth date with this guy and it's been going really well. We were at this bar and it was karaoke night and he had maybe one too many drinks. He got up there to sing Shallow, trying to get me to do it with him. I was so embarrassed and didn't go up, so he just drunkenly sang both parts poorly, very poorly. Do I push through it? I actually think that that is endearing. If I saw, if I was on a date with a guy and he sang both parts privately, like no one else was watching, and I didn't see other people get embarrassed by it as well.
1:13:53 Speaker 06 Do you like to karaoke?
1:13:54 Speaker 03 I tried the, yeah, yes and no. I'm actually like, the songs I want to karaoke, I don't know well enough. I did, um, It's All Coming Back To Me Now.
1:14:02 Speaker 06 Stunning.
1:14:03 Speaker 03 And I realized mid-song that I did it.
1:14:05 Speaker 06 That there's parts of it you didn't know.
1:14:06 Speaker 03 That I was, parts of it I didn't know.
1:14:07 Speaker 06 That's a tough.
1:14:08 Speaker 03 And there's video of it. And it, um, it was really embarrassing. But yes, I do like karaoke.
1:14:14 Speaker 06 I find people who are game for karaoke to be infinitely charming.
1:14:18 Speaker 03 Yes, I agree.
1:14:20 Speaker 06 It shows a complete ease in the relationship to self. You are open to humiliation and embarrassment.
1:14:30 Speaker 03 And that's hot.
1:14:30 Speaker 06 I find that incredibly attractive.
1:14:32 Speaker 03 That's hot.
1:14:33 Speaker 06 For, you, there are people who are like, no, I could never karaoke. Why?
1:14:38 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:14:39 Speaker 06 Why? Let's get into it.
1:14:41 Speaker 03 Why do you think?
1:14:42 Speaker 06 Why? Because I think they are terrified of breaking the seal of an aesthetic, or a look, or a vibe.
1:14:50 Speaker 03 And then like, if that's a partner, do you, are you just an aesthetic to them?
1:14:53 Speaker 06 A partner? I could never.
1:14:54 Speaker 03 Yeah. What's your karaoke song?
1:14:57 Speaker 06 I love a duet, Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, When You Believe.
1:15:02 Speaker 03 I love Mariah Carey.
1:15:03 Speaker 06 Or One Sweet Day.
1:15:05 Speaker 03 Is that the Boys to Men song?
1:15:07 Speaker 06 That's right.
1:15:07 Speaker 03 And that's the, one of the longest running number ones of all time, right?
1:15:10 Speaker 06 Yeah, absolutely.
1:15:11 Speaker 03 I see, and people don't think I know my stuff. I know my stuff.
1:15:16 Speaker 06 Well, yeah. I mean, those are two good ones, and then Purple Rain. When I've had a lot to drink.
1:15:21 Speaker 03 I think my karaoke song is anything Taylor Swift.
1:15:26 Speaker 06 Right.
1:15:27 Speaker 03 Like, but I, if, if we're belting here, probably Ari, something with Ari. I'm a, I'm a very big Ari girl.
1:15:37 Speaker 06 Dangerous Woman is a great karaoke song.
1:15:40 Speaker 03 You know what else is a good karaoke song that I've never done, but I know it would be good? needy.
1:15:45 Speaker 06 Right.
1:15:46 Speaker 03 Just because needy is-
1:15:47 Speaker 06 That's also the thing about karaoke is, you leave the karaoke room, and instantly think about the songs you should have sang.
1:15:55 Speaker 03 Should, I, we should go karaoke.
1:15:56 Speaker 06 I would love nothing more.
1:15:57 Speaker 03 Should we do that?
1:15:58 Speaker 06 Yeah.
1:15:58 Speaker 03 Okay. Where are you based? Here in New York?
1:16:01 Speaker 06 Here in New York now.
1:16:02 Speaker 03 Me as well?
1:16:02 Speaker 06 Mm-hmm.
1:16:03 Speaker 03 Okay, so you just-
1:16:04 Speaker 06 We'll go to a place. We'll go to Koreatown in New York and do a private room.
1:16:08 Speaker 03 Yep, done. Private room.
1:16:09 Speaker 06 Never public.
1:16:10 Speaker 03 Never public. So are we the problem of people, we can't do karaoke public? Cause we just like-
1:16:16 Speaker 06 I don't, public is for showboats.
1:16:18 Speaker 03 Right.
1:16:19 Speaker 06 Public are for the people, like, you know what I mean?
1:16:23 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:16:23 Speaker 06 I feel like, go to the Philippines.
1:16:25 Speaker 03 Right.
1:16:25 Speaker 06 If you want public karaoke, cause you will hear voices you have never heard before. Unbelievable.
1:16:30 Speaker 03 I mean-
1:16:30 Speaker 06 Voices.
1:16:31 Speaker 03 Have you ever heard Charisse?
1:16:33 Speaker 06 Yeah, of cour- of course. You know the clip of Sharice being pulled onstage with Celine?
1:16:38 Speaker 03 No.
1:16:39 Speaker 06 I think at one point Sharice was pulled onstage by Celine Dion to finish a song.
1:16:45 Speaker 03 And did they do a great job?
1:16:47 Speaker 06 Obviously, they did a great job.
1:16:48 Speaker 03 I mean, "Pyramid" stands the test of time. That's a karaoke song. "Pyramid" by Sharice. Featuring Aias, of course.
1:16:55 Speaker 06 Right.
1:16:56 Speaker 03 It stands the test of time.
1:16:57 Speaker 06 Of course it does.
1:16:58 Speaker 03 I know you low-key have beef with European Wax Center. I need to share. One time I was there getting everything done down there and they burned my asshole like so bad, I had to go to the hospital and get it checked out. It was insane. So, safe to say, we have major beef with them and refuse to ever go back. So, my beef with European, I'm so sorry that happened to you, my beef with European Wax Center actually isn't with their services. I actually find their waxers to, have you ever been?
1:17:22 Speaker 06 No.
1:17:22 Speaker 03 Okay, so I actually find their waxers to be quite lovely. My beef with them is that I think something very wrong is going on there.
1:17:28 Speaker 06 But the services are good.
1:17:30 Speaker 03 The waxers are lovely.
1:17:33 Speaker 03 Do you know if you are, do you know if you are nine minutes late? You're done?
1:17:37 Speaker 06 They cut you out of the...
1:17:38 Speaker 03 Nine. Why nine?
1:17:41 Speaker 03 There's two...
1:17:42 Speaker 06 That's kind, I mean, that's a move.
1:17:43 Speaker 03 It's very strange.
1:17:44 Speaker 06 And honestly, in Los Angeles, everyone is 10 minutes late.
1:17:47 Speaker 03 I went to the wrong one. I went to the one in Westwood instead of the one in Santa Monica and I called them and I said, "Oh my god, I'm so sorry." You know, I didn't think European Wax Center was back to back to back to back to back.
1:17:54 Speaker 06 Did you have to pay?
1:17:55 Speaker 03 No, they, I, I, they, I said, "Oh my god, I'm on the way." They said, "Okay, great, but if you're not, uh, if you get here at 1:09, you're fucked." And I said, "What?" And then I got there and there was two...
1:18:05 Speaker 06 That speaks to me.
1:18:06 Speaker 03 Yeah, there was two people working the desk and there was one waxer, which I found very confusing. And then when you leave, they say, "Well, you know you can't leave without the serums." And I said...
1:18:19 Speaker 06 The serums for the waxed parts?
1:18:20 Speaker 03 For ingrown hair. But not only do they have a serum, they have wipes. They have body wash.
1:18:25 Speaker 06 For ingrown hairs?
1:18:26 Speaker 03 Yes, and, um, it feels like I am just, it feels like lube labeled as ingrown hair serum.
1:18:35 Speaker 06 Yeah.
1:18:36 Speaker 03 I would, I just would like to say...
1:18:37 Speaker 06 I now feel like I need to get a wax.
1:18:39 Speaker 03 You should go and get, get back to me. Just get like a, like some, some random part wax and just, but just for the experience of experiencing a European Wax Center.
1:18:48 Speaker 06 Vibing out whether it's...
1:18:50 Speaker 03 It is very, it's like the backrooms. Something's wrong.
1:18:56 Speaker 06 Maybe I need to go for research.
1:18:57 Speaker 03 You just do. Go for research.
1:18:59 Speaker 06 Okay.
1:19:00 Speaker 03 It's very strange there. So I see you.
1:19:03 Speaker 06 I once, in a long time ago, used to relax my hair.
1:19:07 Speaker 03 What does that mean?
1:19:08 Speaker 06 Like, you'd like apply, you'd like apply a chemical treatment and then-
1:19:12 Speaker 03 Do you have curly hair?
1:19:13 Speaker 06 Yeah.
1:19:13 Speaker 03 Oh, I didn't know that.
1:19:14 Speaker 06 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:19:16 Speaker 03 Well, it's straight right now.
1:19:17 Speaker 06 In old age, it straightened itself out, but like, at the time, I had very frizzy curly hair. And they burned all the way around my scalp.
1:19:27 Speaker 03 Well, did you sue?
1:19:28 Speaker 06 No, because my place of employment at the time had a working relationship with this salon. And they didn't want to ruffle feathers.
1:19:37 Speaker 06 So I just had burnt scalp for, anyway, yeah.
1:19:41 Speaker 03 Life is so unfair sometimes.
1:19:43 Speaker 06 It's tough.
1:19:44 Speaker 03 My girlfriend forgot our anniversary. We've been together for three years and she's always doing shit like this. Never my birthday, not yet at least, but stuff like our friends and my family's, etc. I'm genuinely really upset about it, but I'm trying to keep my cool. How do I react to this in a smart way? I'm far too angry to do anything right now.
1:19:59 Speaker 06 Ooh, this is hitting a deep, deep wound for me.
1:20:01 Speaker 03 Is it really?
1:20:02 Speaker 06 Yeah. Well, I wouldn't call it a wound, I guess. I have no problem if someone forgets my birthday. Nothing. No. No problem.
1:20:10 Speaker 03 When is your birthday?
1:20:11 Speaker 06 August 9th.
1:20:12 Speaker 03 You're a Leo and you're telling me that with a straight face?
1:20:15 Speaker 06 I'm a double Leo Scorpio rising.
1:20:16 Speaker 03 And you're telling me that you don't give a fuck when somebody forgets your birthday?
1:20:20 Speaker 06 No. Because I forget everyone's birthday.
1:20:23 Speaker 03 Okay, so you give yourself the same-
1:20:24 Speaker 06 I love my friends dearly. I am not a birthday person. I celebrate my birthday every 10 years. I'll throw a big party every 10 years.
1:20:33 Speaker 03 That's awesome.
1:20:34 Speaker 06 I'll give myself that kind of time in the sun every 10 years. Me turning 43?
1:20:42 Speaker 03 I get it.
1:20:42 Speaker 06 Really?
1:20:43 Speaker 03 Did you like-
1:20:43 Speaker 06 Embarrassing!
1:20:44 Speaker 03 Do you like your 40s?
1:20:47 Speaker 06 Uh, it's been, it's been conflicted.
1:20:52 Speaker 03 Did you like your 30s?
1:20:54 Speaker 06 Loved my 30s.
1:20:54 Speaker 03 That's what everybody says.
1:20:56 Speaker 06 The clarity that comes in your 30s is like someone lifts a weight off your shoulders and you can breathe again.
1:21:04 Speaker 03 Really?
1:21:05 Speaker 06 Yeah.
1:21:06 Speaker 03 What, like?
1:21:07 Speaker 06 You stop caring and also you start to see your friendships for whether they are valuable or not. The minute I turned 30, I looked around and was like, this person's not making me feel good.
1:21:21 Speaker 03 And then that was it?
1:21:22 Speaker 06 Every time I see them, there's something, I walk away feeling weird.
1:21:27 Speaker 03 Wow, people love their 30s. I didn't know in Sex, I didn't know in Sex and the City, Miss Carrie Brown, they were all 30.
1:21:35 Speaker 06 Wow.
1:21:35 Speaker 03 I never, I've never.
1:21:36 Speaker 06 You want to talk about like feeling fucked up? Watching like Bridget Jones's diary and she's much younger than me, like that's a head fuck.
1:21:46 Speaker 03 Right.
1:21:47 Speaker 06 You, it, you, I, you feel like a dinosaur when you say like, I still feel like nothing has changed, like, I don't know what 43 is. I don't feel 43, but what is 43? I don't know.
1:22:00 Speaker 03 I don't know either.
1:22:00 Speaker 06 Now I guess it's different.
1:22:03 Speaker 03 Did you?
1:22:04 Speaker 06 I'm this, it's the same brain as when I was in my twenties.
1:22:08 Speaker 03 Ah, isn't that scary?
1:22:08 Speaker 06 Just like, I care less.
1:22:11 Speaker 03 Did you go through a Saturn return?
1:22:12 Speaker 06 A Saturn return is ultimately just aging.
1:22:15 Speaker 03 But we have to believe.
1:22:16 Speaker 06 I will put everything into the stars.
1:22:19 Speaker 03 Are you in, are you in, so you're not into astrology?
1:22:20 Speaker 06 No. But I'll believe any, it's, I'm, yeah, I'll believe whatever anyone tells me. And double Leo Scorpio rising is hell.
1:22:29 Speaker 03 That is crazy. Well, I'm a Scorpio double Gemini. Yeah, bad, really bad.
1:22:33 Speaker 06 I say wow as if I really know, but I do know that Gemini's tough.
1:22:36 Speaker 03 You Geminis are tough. I think my roommate has a kink for public sex. Whenever she brings a guy home, she always leaves her bedroom door open or is extremely loud. Our walls are thin and we live in a tiny NYC apartment. What do I do?
1:22:48 Speaker 06 Leaving your door open while you're having sex when you have a roommate is fucking wild.
1:22:53 Speaker 03 I think you're right on the fact that she does have the kink and she wants you to hear.
1:22:56 Speaker 06 Absolutely. There's something going on there. It's deliberate, for sure.
1:23:02 Speaker 06 Oh, I would be the, I was, I, I, I've lived on my own for a long time. And that's because of, I mean, I've never had that kind of situation, but I'm radically honest.
1:23:13 Speaker 03 You're good at confrontation?
1:23:15 Speaker 06 Yeah, I don't need to hear you moaning in your bed with your boyfriend. Shut the door.
1:23:19 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:23:20 Speaker 06 And, and actually, while we're at it, do you have to be so loud?
1:23:23 Speaker 03 Right.
1:23:24 Speaker 06 I'm watching TV.
1:23:25 Speaker 03 Right. So just an honest conversation?
1:23:29 Speaker 06 It's begging for an honest conversation.
1:23:31 Speaker 03 Yeah, she wants you to have the
1:23:32 Speaker 06 She wants you to have the conversation.
1:23:35 Speaker 03 I'm trying to think if there's like a show.
1:23:36 Speaker 06 What a wild move.
1:23:37 Speaker 03 Isn't that, isn't that crazy? It reminds me of like, in Bridesmaids, when Rebel Wilson's character is like always doing wacky shit at home. You know what I mean? And Kristen Wiig has to be like, what the fuck is going on?
1:23:49 Speaker 06 Unless she's just one of those people that like genuinely doesn't
1:23:52 Speaker 03 Give a fuck?
1:23:53 Speaker 06 Think about other people.
1:23:55 Speaker 03 It could be that. Well, then you might need to move out at the end of your lease.
1:23:59 Speaker 06 Unless you like it.
1:24:00 Speaker 03 Right.
1:24:05 Speaker 06 Maybe she
1:24:05 Speaker 03 They might.
1:24:06 Speaker 06 If you like it.
1:24:07 Speaker 03 Right.
1:24:08 Speaker 06 I've heard people having sex and I've been like, okay. Great.
1:24:12 Speaker 03 I've been in hotel rooms and I've been like,
1:24:14 Speaker 06 Yeah.
1:24:14 Speaker 03 Sounds like they're having fun.
1:24:16 Speaker 06 Yeah, they sound hot.
1:24:17 Speaker 03 It sounds hot and steamy and it sounds like they're having fun.
1:24:19 Speaker 06 Absolutely.
1:24:20 Speaker 03 And that's human.
1:24:22 Speaker 06 So now I actually almost take it back. It depends on who's having sex.
1:24:25 Speaker 03 Right.
1:24:26 Speaker 06 It depends on who it is. If your roommate's good looking and their partner's really, I mean, not that looks are matter, but in this case it kind of does.
1:24:31 Speaker 03 It, it, it does.
1:24:32 Speaker 06 Let me fantasize in that case, if you're gonna leave your door open.
1:24:35 Speaker 03 Exactly. But yes, they do have a kink and you should probably say something. Every single dating app is literally hell on earth. I match with the most unhinged horny gross losers that all just want to come over and hook up with me and then never talk to me again. Even if there's a date involved, I know that's still the end game. What are better alternative ways to get myself out there?
1:24:52 Speaker 06 I wish I could say
1:24:54 Speaker 03 I have no answer.
1:24:54 Speaker 06 Meet someone in person.
1:24:56 Speaker 03 That doesn't
1:24:57 Speaker 06 But we're all so conditioned to not do that, that I don't.
1:25:00 Speaker 03 You gotta just have to have faith in a higher power that something will fall in your lap.
1:25:04 Speaker 06 I definitely went through phases where I would get so bored by the apps and so sort of disheartened that I would stop. And then I would go back. You kind of have to assume that it's one in a thousand.
1:25:16 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:25:17 Speaker 06 And that's being generous.
1:25:18 Speaker 03 Yeah. You just like-
1:25:20 Speaker 06 You have to go in being like, "One in a thousand will pique my interest."
1:25:23 Speaker 03 Also, like, if you don't do it, you're not gonna find the one. Like, you have to kiss a few frogs.
1:25:29 Speaker 06 Hundred percent.
1:25:31 Speaker 03 To find your prince. You have to. It's just, it's just how life works. And you don't, and you know, if, yeah, I don't know.
1:25:39 Speaker 06 I would, yeah. I wish we could go back. I do think there is nothing more romantic than meeting someone in real life and having a connection.
1:25:49 Speaker 03 It's beautiful. I just found out I'm narcoleptic at, at age twenty-eight. For years, my family and friends just thought I was lazy, uninterested, etc. Ooh, wow. I always felt driven and motivated, but I cannot stay awake during the day for the life of me. This is how I feel. I was talking to a doctor randomly, and he was like, "Yeah, dude, that's narcolepsy." Now I have all this medicine and stimulants I need to take, FML. So what do you need help with?
1:26:14 Speaker 06 Is that his question?
1:26:15 Speaker 03 Yeah, that's, that's it.
1:26:17 Speaker 06 He doesn't, he's just telling us that he's narcoleptic?
1:26:20 Speaker 03 Mm-hmm.
1:26:21 Speaker 06 As someone who doesn't sleep that much, it sounds kinda great.
1:26:25 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:26:26 Speaker 06 I, it, I, I've had such a horrible sleep schedule.
1:26:30 Speaker 03 Have you really?
1:26:31 Speaker 06 Like horrible.
1:26:31 Speaker 03 How many hours you get a night?
1:26:32 Speaker 06 But, it depends.
1:26:33 Speaker 03 How many hours you get last night?
1:26:35 Speaker 06 Six.
1:26:37 Speaker 03 Yeah, you feel well-rested. You feel-
1:26:40 Speaker 06 I love that in twenty twenty-six, six hours of sleep is like, you're winning.
1:26:44 Speaker 03 No, you are. Do you have an eight-sleep?
1:26:46 Speaker 06 A what?
1:26:47 Speaker 03 Oh, Dan. It tracks your sleep, your snoring, your REM.
1:26:51 Speaker 06 I, I don't know if I can deal with that level of confrontation at this point.
1:26:54 Speaker 03 Yep, I got that. I understand.
1:26:57 Speaker 06 I've been falling asleep to, I've been falling asleep to different sounds. Um, because I think when you're traveling a lot, it's nice to have a consistent thing to listen to. And my therapist recommended this, like, erotic sleep app.
1:27:13 Speaker 03 Shut up.
1:27:14 Speaker 06 The sub-chapter in this sleep app is you falling asleep in different people's places.
1:27:22 Speaker 03 Will you send this to me?
1:27:23 Speaker 06 Yeah. So I've been falling asleep to, like, Marcel's cabin in the woods. And it's like, someone typing at their computer, and you're, like, lying down with, with, like, the rain falling outside.
1:27:37 Speaker 03 So you literally pretend like you have a boyfriend?
1:27:39 Speaker 06 A little bit.
1:27:40 Speaker 03 Send this my way.
1:27:42 Speaker 06 It's the joy of like, it's like when you're a kid, not to sort of conflate this light erotic app with like my own childhood, but it's like when you fall asleep knowing that your parents are like moving around. There's like a comfort of knowing that someone is awake.
1:28:01 Speaker 03 Yeah, I'm gonna have you send this to me.
1:28:02 Speaker 06 Okay.
1:28:03 Speaker 03 And I'm gonna try it tonight.
1:28:03 Speaker 06 But now as an adult, it has like a kind of erotic twist to it and someone will like talk to you for the first two minutes.
1:28:09 Speaker 03 Like say what?
1:28:10 Speaker 06 Say like, I'm trying to remember, but it's like, you can like choose like a Scottish voice who's gonna talk to you and say like, you've had a really rough day, like take a sleep, take a nap.
1:28:22 Speaker 03 Shut up.
1:28:23 Speaker 06 I'm gonna like.
1:28:24 Speaker 03 What is this app called?
1:28:24 Speaker 06 I'm gonna like paint and you'll hear them like painting.
1:28:28 Speaker 03 What is this called?
1:28:29 Speaker 06 I can't remember. I'll get you, I'll get you as soon as this is done.
1:28:31 Speaker 03 Okay. Well, that was the last tell me what's wrong.
1:28:34 Speaker 06 Great. Well.
1:28:35 Speaker 03 Dan, what did we learn today?
1:28:39 Speaker 06 We learned so much.
1:28:40 Speaker 03 Dan, I really feel so grateful to have spoken to you today.
1:28:43 Speaker 06 Likewise. What a spiritual conversation.
1:28:45 Speaker 03 That was really beautiful. I really took in what you had to say.
1:28:49 Speaker 06 Good.
1:28:50 Speaker 03 I learned.
1:28:51 Speaker 06 And like as you make this show, I'll give you my contact information.
1:28:54 Speaker 03 Please.
1:28:54 Speaker 06 I would be more than happy to be a sounding board if you ever need anybody.
1:28:59 Speaker 03 Well, that was some of the best advice I've gotten so far ever. So I really, really appreciate it.
1:29:04 Speaker 06 Thank you so much for having me.
1:29:05 Speaker 03 Thank you for being here. What did you learn today?
1:29:07 Speaker 06 It's okay to call out a lie.
1:29:09 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:29:10 Speaker 06 In front of someone you've just sort of spent time with.
1:29:12 Speaker 03 Yes, it is okay.
1:29:14 Speaker 06 And it's, you gotta call it.
1:29:16 Speaker 03 Yes.
1:29:17 Speaker 06 There was something in me that like had to proclaim I lied to you.
1:29:20 Speaker 03 Yes.
1:29:21 Speaker 06 And I felt better.
1:29:22 Speaker 03 And, and no one cares.
1:29:24 Speaker 06 And I felt very comforted by this conversation in a variety of ways.
1:29:26 Speaker 03 Me too. I feel I'm leaving this feeling amazing.
1:29:29 Speaker 06 Bye pussies.
1:29:46 Speaker 00 Ugh, I hate Mondays.
1:29:48 Speaker 01 King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Swirl Bite?
1:29:49 Speaker 00 Uh, Taylor Hansen? Sure, I'll try one. Mmm.
1:29:55 Speaker 01 Hey, let's get back to work, please.
1:29:56 Speaker 00 But Taylor Hansen's making my day way better with these new soft and swirly King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Bites.
1:30:01 Speaker 01 Taylor Hansen? Nice. Try one. Mmm.
1:30:08 Speaker 00 King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Bites. There's nothing like it.
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