Session 114: Thomas Doherty

I used to think Florida was at the top of the map... Tell Me What's Wrong at ⁠ passthatpuss.com Follow Thomas! @thomasadoherty Follow Me! Instagram | @passthatpuss TikTok | @octopusslover8 Listen to "THERAPUSS" Spotify: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/1BHDdC0OVuHqZ706FobfOF ⁠⁠Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/therapuss-with-jake-shane/id1723626781⁠⁠ Amazon Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/93117357-1f23-46e1-8f26-88f5182a68b8/therapuss-with-jake-shane⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:41Speaker 01

  Hi pussies, surprise! Welcome back to Therapuss. Today, we have on Thomas Doherty, star of season two of Paradise. He was also in the Gospel Girl reboot and Tell Me Lies, and he is also a very good friend. But for the intro today, we have my dear friend, Will Hunt.

• 0:57Speaker 02

  Hi. Hi, everybody.

• 1:02Speaker 02

  Are you serious?

• 1:05Speaker 01

  Will and I have discovered that adult friendships require...

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Need grace.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  And Will's...

• 1:12Speaker 02

  But not too much grace, let me tell you.

• 1:14Speaker 01

  What do you mean?

• 1:16Speaker 02

  Grace can only go so far.

• 1:17Speaker 01

  Will and I haven't seen each other in about three months.

• 1:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's been a little too long.

• 1:21Speaker 01

  Well, he's been writing, you've been writing in Nashville.

• 1:23Speaker 02

  Yes, I have, I've done some sessions.

• 1:24Speaker 01

  Will's new song, "Worth Fighting For," is out now. You should all stream it, it's amazing. Any other life updates from you?

• 1:30Speaker 02

  Not really.

• 1:30Speaker 01

  A little Southern belle?

• 1:31Speaker 02

  I mean, he's got a lot to cover, baby.

• 1:34Speaker 01

  Like what?

• 1:34Speaker 02

  I don't know, I haven't seen you in a minute, so... Is this a little awkward, or what?

• 1:44Speaker 02

  Do you have any questions for me?

• 1:46Speaker 01

  No, I feel like we've covered a lot of the bases.

• 1:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree.

• 1:52Speaker 01

  You don't watch Paradise?

• 1:54Speaker 02

  No, but I, I need to start.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  Did you watch season one?

• 1:56Speaker 02

  I did, yes.

• 1:57Speaker 01

  Well, it's amazing. Season two is amazing.

• 1:58Speaker 02

  Okay, well, I'm gonna start it tonight.

• 2:00Speaker 01

  Are you working on any, any new music currently?

• 2:02Speaker 02

  I am, yes.

• 2:02Speaker 01

  So, any songs you're excited about?

• 2:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's one called Tennessee at Seventeen, and I think it's gonna be good.

• 2:06Speaker 01

  Ooh, Tennessee at Seventeen. You love country music. Will always puts me on to good music.

• 2:11Speaker 02

  Thousand.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  You put me on to, um, Devon again.

• 2:14Speaker 02

  Devon again?

• 2:15Speaker 01

  You put me on-

• 2:15Speaker 02

  She's so incredible.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  Um, you also put me on to Carter Faith.

• 2:18Speaker 02

  Ugh, I am obsessed with Carter Faith.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  And you put me on to that, what's that song? Um, it's a very Americana.

• 2:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have no idea.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Ah, it's, um, um, um, it's, um, it's like, uh, I'm American Dream, man.

• 2:34Speaker 02

  Oh, Sierra Farrell.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  Yeah!

• 2:36Speaker 02

  She's incredible.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Yes!

• 2:37Speaker 02

  And she plays her own instruments, it's insane.

• 2:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, Will-

• 2:40Speaker 02

  She's one of the best live performers I've ever seen.

• 2:42Speaker 01

  So, who should we put on right now, besides you?

• 2:44Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh, that's a really good question, actually.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  Who is, who are you, who do you have your eye on? Well, who are, what are you listening to?

• 2:49Speaker 02

  Grace Ives.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  Grace Ives, yeah, you love-

• 2:51Speaker 02

  Her new album is phenomenal.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  Okay, Grace Ives?

• 2:53Speaker 02

  The production's insane. I think she's brilliant.

• 2:55Speaker 01

  Sarah Kinsley?

• 2:56Speaker 02

  Sarah Kinsley's always been that girl.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  You put me on to Sarah Kinsley?

• 2:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  You put me on to everything. My favorite thing in the world is listening to music in Will's car.

• 3:02Speaker 02

  Oh, Jake.

• 3:04Speaker 01

  I do.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  I miss that.

• 3:05Speaker 01

  Well, I haven't been here.

• 3:06Speaker 02

  I'd like to do that soon.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  Well, I haven't been here.

• 3:08Speaker 02

  I get that.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  We're seeing Project Hail Mary on Thursday.

• 3:10Speaker 02

  I'm really excited for that.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, have you seen it? Twice, so good. Twice? Oh, it's one of those? Yeah.

• 3:15Speaker 02

  What's it about, though?

• 3:16Speaker 01

  I don't honestly-

• 3:17Speaker 02

  Football?

• 3:17Speaker 01

  No, go, go in blind, though, go in blind. It's about space. Yeah.

• 3:23Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  It'll be fun.

• 3:24Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah, I'm excited.

• 3:25Speaker 01

  Um, okay, well, Will, I love you. Thomas, I love you. Pussies, enjoy the episode. I love you guys.

• 3:35Speaker 01

  Hi, pussies, welcome back to Therapuzz. Well, it's just another day in paradise because we have-

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Thomas Do-Hurty.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  We have Thomas Do-Hurty on the podcast and I, it's Do-Hurty.

• 3:49Speaker 03

  Do-Hurty.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  Do-Hurty.

• 3:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  My first question to you was, we are actually old friends.

• 3:54Speaker 03

  Yes, we go way back.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  So, how?

• 3:57Speaker 03

  We were meant to do this last year.

• 3:58Speaker 01

  Okay, but how did we become friends? Cause I forget, everyone kept asking me and I kept saying, I don't know.

• 4:03Speaker 03

  We were met at the Tommy Hilfiger show. And I, and I came up to you and I was like.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  Oh my god, you did.

• 4:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  You did, I was so gagged, I was like, wait, hi. And then we became friends and then you came to my New York show, we went out, we had a night.

• 4:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  What?

• 4:19Speaker 03

  That's what we were doing the whole night.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  The whole night? Hi, Missy. Well, you're in my favorite show on television.

• 4:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know, you told me, how did you find the season two?

• 4:28Speaker 01

  I think season two, I'm not even just saying this because you're in it, I think it's better than season one.

• 4:32Speaker 03

  How, how was it starting on the outside of the bunker? Like, was that quite jarring?

• 4:37Speaker 01

  I was upset.

• 4:38Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  I was upset, I missed the B.

• 4:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  You know, I missed the bunker and I, I was like a little, I was, I don't know, I was like not, um, I'm sorry, I will just like to acknowledge how poorly that joke landed. Like, I really need to just like get, get that.

• 4:54Speaker 03

  What you were saying.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  Unfortunately, she knew.

• 5:00Speaker 01

  Unfortunately, she knew. She knew. And I just like, I couldn't get through my next sentence without like acknowledging how bad that was. So now that we've gotten that, that out of the way, I did miss the bunker, okay? I did miss the bunker, I'm very happy for James Marsden.

• 5:17Speaker 03

  I never worked with James, but he was always on set.

• 5:19Speaker 01

  I'm so happy he wasn't like killed off like forever, forever, you know?

• 5:23Speaker 03

  Well, that's the amazing thing that Dan does as well, do you know? That's, that's why it's really hard to depress on it because there's so many flashbacks, flash forwards, like, you don't really, no one, you, you don't really know what's happening. Like, even some of the cast don't know.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  What's happening?

• 5:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  Okay, can I give you my theory?

• 5:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  Obviously, we're getting involved with time travel.

• 5:42Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. Cool.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Yes, we are. I think that you are Sinatra's son that died.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I literally just crushed that. Am I right?

• 5:57Speaker 03

  Maybe. I mean, it is actually a very, very good theory. See, the thing with all these theories, I see there's always like little bits of truth. I'm not saying that that's applicable.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's why-

• 6:07Speaker 03

  But there are little bits of truth in all of them.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  But that's why she's hemorrhaging power.

• 6:11Speaker 03

  No, but how would I be her son then?

• 6:13Speaker 01

  I don't know. Okay, I didn't read, I actually read the theory myself, but I was told it.

• 6:17Speaker 03

  Someone told you.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:18Speaker 03

  And then you took it for your own.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  Yes, but you were that guy's little protege.

• 6:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:23Speaker 01

  How would you pronounce protege?

• 6:27Speaker 03

  Protege.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Is it prodigy or protege or protege?

• 6:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can't ask a Scottish person how they pronounce something. It's ridiculous.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  What was it like growing up in Scotland?

• 6:36Speaker 03

  Well, people always ask me this. I have nothing to compare it to, but it was good, yeah? Like, how was it growing up in America?

• 6:43Speaker 01

  Fine.

• 6:44Speaker 03

  See?

• 6:45Speaker 01

  I grew up in New York. Do you know that about me?

• 6:47Speaker 03

  I didn't actually know that.

• 6:48Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. I grew up uptown.

• 6:50Speaker 03

  Upper East or Upper West?

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Washington Heights.

• 6:52Speaker 03

  Washington Heights.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:54Speaker 03

  And then when did you go over to LA?

• 6:56Speaker 01

  For USC.

• 6:57Speaker 03

  Ah, okay. And you stayed?

• 7:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I stayed.

• 7:00Speaker 03

  And you're gonna come back?

• 7:01Speaker 01

  To here? I just got a place?

• 7:03Speaker 03

  There's no way.

• 7:04Speaker 01

  Oh my god, how happy are you? Yes, we can hang out all the time! Are you so excited? Yeah! Are you so excited?

• 7:13Speaker 03

  What?

• 7:14Speaker 01

  No, it's Gorgion.

• 7:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  So much room for us to hang out.

• 7:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:18Speaker 03

  It's annoying.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  Well, we, yes, yes, you know. So what was it like working on Paradise? Oh, also, you wanna know why I know there is time travel?

• 7:28Speaker 03

  You don't know that there's time travel.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  I do know that there's time travel. Okay. Alex, are you caught up to date? Okay, so obviously they wouldn't just cast Shailene Woodley for four episodes of the fucking show. So we better get to time traveling quick! Cause there's only eight episodes!

• 7:46Speaker 03

  I can't, confirm or deny, how do you know she's in four episodes?

• 7:50Speaker 01

  I'm on the fourth and she just passed away.

• 7:52Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, that's very true.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, so sad. What a great soundtrack, too.

• 7:57Speaker 03

  Good soundtrack, isn't it? Well, me and Shailene, we're gonna try and like, do a cover of an Elvis song, but we've never really got down to it. I can sing a little bit.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Did you sing in Rocky Horror?

• 8:06Speaker 03

  I've never been in Rocky Horror, but in Little Shop of Horror, I did sing, yeah.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  So what's the difference between those two?

• 8:14Speaker 03

  Eh, completely different musicals, written by different people at different times and...

• 8:19Speaker 01

  But like, what's the difference?

• 8:20Speaker 03

  What's the difference?

• 8:21Speaker 01

  Little Shop is about like, plants that come alive, right?

• 8:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, so Little Shop is about a plant that comes alive.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  So what were you?

• 8:28Speaker 03

  I was a guy called Seymour.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  Main character?

• 8:30Speaker 03

  No, yeah.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  Yeah?

• 8:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was amazing. It was eh, it was really cool to go from paradise to then go into doing a musical.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  What's the difference?

• 8:40Speaker 03

  Oh god, it's so different. I mean, I always feel like with film and TV, it's more you sign up for a lifestyle. Hmm, I suppose you do for... I like, I like, I like the lifestyle of a film, like being on film and TV.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Being on a film set? Why?

• 8:54Speaker 03

  I love being on a film set and I love kind of traveling around the world to different locations to film. I also just love the like, structure that's around a film set. Eh, with theatre, as you know.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  I, I do.

• 9:08Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. It's like, I mean, you have to go to the theatre at five and so... I suppo- yeah, you have the day up until five, but I mean, you don't get home until like, ten thirty, your adrenaline so...

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Did you sign after?

• 9:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, I would sign after, so that takes time. I mean, not as many people as you. How many people are there for you?

• 9:27Speaker 01

  Hmm, like, on a night-to-night basis, I would say like, eighty to a hundred people.

• 9:31Speaker 03

  Should I be interviewing you?

• 9:35Speaker 03

  So what's it like being on Broadway?

• 9:37Speaker 01

  Well, it's amazing. Um, I do, I did eight, I do eight shows a week. How many shows do you do? Did you do?

• 9:42Speaker 03

  Eight shows a week.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  Would you do theatre again?

• 9:44Speaker 03

  Oh my god, I can't wait to do theatre again. I eh, yeah, I would love to do like, a play. I just think it's the best...

• 9:54Speaker 03

  Practice for any act and it's theatre, you know?

• 9:58Speaker 01

  Well, you said that, um, when you, you didn't have a choice whether to be an actor or not.

• 10:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, no choice.

• 10:04Speaker 01

  Why?

• 10:05Speaker 03

  I don't know. I mean, it's just like... I was gonna, I was gonna go to university to do history, but I was like, like, who am I kidding? I can't think of doing-

• 10:14Speaker 01

  Oh my god, like, you want to be a history teacher?

• 10:17Speaker 03

  Not a history teacher, but like, I don't even know what I wanted to do, I just loved history.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  By the way, I texted Thomas the other night, I FaceTimed him and I was like, I'm about to go on a date tonight, I don't think it's gonna go well, stay on your phone, we're going out, right? Like, we are going out.

• 10:33Speaker 03

  And I stayed on my phone.

• 10:34Speaker 01

  I wrote, in all caps, three times, "Do not bail, do not bail, do not bail", three times. Who do you, who do you think bailed?

• 10:43Speaker 03

  Cause it wasn't fucking me.

• 10:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I bailed. And then he said, he said, he texted me at 3am, "Me getting blown off is crazy."

• 10:52Speaker 03

  No, it wasn't even that late, it was like 12.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I, and I think I was like-

• 10:55Speaker 03

  And he didn't even respond until the next thing, he was like, "I'm so sorry."

• 10:59Speaker 01

  But I would like to say, though, like, life is more colorful when you are, like, romantically involved with someone. Like, I'm in such a good mood today, and it's not gonna last.

• 11:12Speaker 03

  No, I don't think it will last.

• 11:15Speaker 03

  Cause I love you, it's in lust.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  What is the difference?

• 11:18Speaker 03

  If you don't know the difference, you're fucked.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  Love and lust? Lust is like, I'm obsessed, right?

• 11:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can, like, fall in lust with people.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  Are you having fun?

• 11:26Speaker 03

  I am having fun. I'm still scared of what's gonna come out your mouth.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Okay, well, I have one last thing to ask you. This actually wasn't, we're trying this new segment called Manny's Corner, and Manny likes to write questions for the guests, so Manny, can I read one of yours?

• 11:39Speaker 03

  Oh, look at that, magic. Thank you so much.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  Okay, ready? This is-

• 11:45Speaker 03

  Just looking at the public screen.

• 11:48Speaker 01

  Okay, so I just, I just wanna let you know that these are from Manny. "Your dad, your dad was a banker, you worked at a place called Tiger Lily, and you worked as Captain Hook's son. What other Peter Pan parallels do you have, and why do you have so many?"

• 12:06Speaker 03

  How am I supposed to even?

• 12:11Speaker 01

  Have you seen Peter Pan?

• 12:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course I have.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  I have not.

• 12:15Speaker 03

  That's not the point of contention. What was the question again? Ask me the question.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Oh, gladly. It's so well-written, right? Shout out Manny.

• 12:23Speaker 01

  Your dad was a banker. You worked at a place called Tiger Lily. Tiger Lily? Isn't that that little gadget store?

• 12:30Speaker 03

  No, Tiger Lily was a restaurant in Edinburgh. And I didn't have a... I worked there after I finished college. So I worked there as a...

• 12:37Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. I would have loved to go to college with you.

• 12:39Speaker 03

  It was fun.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Did you have, like, the best time ever?

• 12:42Speaker 03

  I did have a lot of fun. Well, I was in theater, so it wasn't like...

• 12:44Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 12:45Speaker 03

  So like, yeah.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  Okay, a few more questions.

• 12:47Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  When you were...

• 12:49Speaker 03

  You've not... I've not even finished...

• 12:50Speaker 01

  Well, you said you didn't know how to answer it.

• 12:52Speaker 03

  Are you high?

• 12:53Speaker 01

  What other Peter Pan parallels do you have in your life?

• 12:57Speaker 03

  What other Peter Pan parallels? I don't know. I like green.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  He likes green? Oh, he wears green. Green's your favorite color?

• 13:03Speaker 03

  Green's my favorite color, yeah.

• 13:04Speaker 01

  Well, your eyes are kind of like...

• 13:07Speaker 01

  I know. You have amazing eyes. Okay, so... Okay, a few more, a few more, a few more questions.

• 13:14Speaker 01

  When you...

• 13:16Speaker 03

  See what I mean? This is why I don't know what the fuck he's about to say.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  You were a maid with a bunch of Polish women. Did you learn any fun Polish expressions?

• 13:24Speaker 03

  No, I didn't. And they never really spoke to me. I mean, they were all like fifteen above. And I, again, was just out of college.

• 13:31Speaker 01

  What do you mean they didn't talk?

• 13:32Speaker 03

  They didn't talk to me. They would all just laugh at me because they thought it was hysterical.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  That you were like seventeen-year-old kid cleaning people's rooms. What's the cra... Oh.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  I'm trying.

• 13:45Speaker 03

  This is obviously... I mean, I was a teenager, so you just go and party. And this is when the Edinburgh Fringe was on. Have you ever been to the Edinburgh Fringe?

• 13:51Speaker 01

  No, but you know what? I'm planning to go this year.

• 13:53Speaker 03

  You need to do Edinburgh Fringe.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  I'm planning to go this year.

• 13:56Speaker 03

  Okay, we need to figure something out.

• 13:58Speaker 01

  Would you go?

• 13:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, a hundred percent.

• 14:00Speaker 01

  And we could have fun at Edinburgh?

• 14:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll show you around.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  Edinburgh. Okay, so what was it like? So what... What were you saying?

• 14:09Speaker 03

  I love you, man. I love you.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  This is so fun. Are you having fun?

• 14:17Speaker 03

  What is your question? What one? Where are we?

• 14:20Speaker 01

  The Polish expression.

• 14:21Speaker 03

  The Polish, they didn't speak to me. They would just laugh at me because they thought it was ridiculous. And this hotel didn't have any stairs. So I had to like, sorry, it didn't have any elevators. So it was like an old like townhouse. So I had to haul all these sheets up five flights of stairs and clean people's rooms and their bathrooms and stuff. And I'd start at five o'clock in the morning, but obviously I was a teenager and I was going out and partying and having fun. So I would set a timer on my phone for two minutes and every room I'd go in, I'd have a sleep on their bed for two minutes.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  Oh, you, yeah, you'd sleep. Oh, that leads me perfectly into another one of Manny's questions.

• 14:57Speaker 03

  Okay, perfectly.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  So you used to sleep in hotel rooms when you were a maid and eat the food when you were a waiter. Has a boss ever liked you?

• 15:08Speaker 03

  I feel attacked.

• 15:11Speaker 03

  But.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  Did you like, like, did you get along with your bosses?

• 15:15Speaker 03

  I did, yeah. It's easier in America to get away with.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  What?

• 15:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, with a Scottish accent in Scotland, it doesn't go as far.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  But here, you're charming.

• 15:23Speaker 03

  Here, the Scottish accent. People forget.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  I forget. I mean, he answered the phone yesterday and I was like, oh my God, I forgot you were Scottish.

• 15:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:31Speaker 01

  I literally forgot.

• 15:32Speaker 03

  Arranged to meet up and we didn't because you.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  I had to catch a dick. I'm sorry. I went, I had to.

• 15:39Speaker 03

  Listen, you gotta do what you gotta do.

• 15:40Speaker 01

  I had to do it.

• 15:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:42Speaker 01

  Okay, so what was the craziest thing you saw when you worked as a maid?

• 15:46Speaker 03

  I know this is so annoying because it's like, it's perfect for a good story, but honestly, nothing really.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  You had just like nice people coming around.

• 15:55Speaker 03

  People, like it was a really, it was like a nice old hotels. There was no like fun. There's no parties or anything. People are quite boring.

• 16:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's okay.

• 16:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know. It was so perfect for like a good.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  You never saw.

• 16:07Speaker 03

  A good story. Nothing.

• 16:08Speaker 01

  Nothing?

• 16:09Speaker 03

  Nothing.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  You weren't ever like, yeah, so yeah, I guess because you never spoke to the Polish woman. You were never like, you guys see this? Yeah, nothing.

• 16:16Speaker 03

  No. What jobs did you have? Have you ever?

• 16:19Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, I did. Actually, I worked a lot of internships. So I worked.

• 16:23Speaker 03

  What did you go to college for?

• 16:25Speaker 01

  Public relations. So public relations is like what Alex does.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  Like, I was gonna be a publicist. That's what I wanted to do.

• 16:37Speaker 03

  That would have been so funny.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  I know, but I I realize now I couldn't have done it because I'm

• 16:41Speaker 03

  You were the star.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  I'm the star.

• 16:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  Or I would like to be.

• 16:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:44Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? So what was it like filming? Where did you film?

• 16:48Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 16:49Speaker 01

  Tell me everything.

• 16:50Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah, so I mean, it was amazing. It was definitely this time in my career. I've done ten years in the industry now, you know, so I feel like I've done. I always looked at it as an apprenticeship for the for the industry, just trying to learn as much. And also just find my feet. I mean, you know yourself, it's really strange. There's so many moving pieces. And I mean, it took me so long to even know the difference between an agent and a manager. So I think for the first ten years, I was like figuring that out and then figuring myself out. And living in L A and then living in New York and then getting bits of attention and fame. And it's just, it's kind of weird to turn process in your brain.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:34Speaker 03

  But I feel like I'm in a really, really good place with with all of that and have a great relationship with that. And Paradise was the real kind of, definitely feels like the turning point for me in my career in terms of having a little bit more of a creative voice with things and.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  What do you mean creative voice?

• 17:54Speaker 03

  I don't know. I mean, I just, I think that I'm on sets with these well established directors. And I mean, this is prior, the last ten years, I'm with more experienced actors, with very experienced producers and executive producers and directors and cinematographers, you know. So I definitely had to like be quiet and listen and learn. But now it definitely feels like, and Paradise definitely kind of took that out of me. And I mean, being surrounded by Shaila Moonley, shout out, love you.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  She's amazing.

• 18:28Speaker 03

  How unbelievable is it?

• 18:29Speaker 01

  She's like really like

• 18:31Speaker 03

  She's like

• 18:31Speaker 01

  Amazing.

• 18:32Speaker 03

  And she, I always, I always looked up to her, like, for so long, I've always thought that she's never got her, like.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  Flowers.

• 18:42Speaker 03

  What does that mean?

• 18:44Speaker 01

  To give someone their flowers? It's like credit.

• 18:46Speaker 03

  Like your credit, yeah, for how good she actually is.

• 18:52Speaker 03

  But just the nicest, nicest human being as well. Really amazing person and drops into her character like I've never seen before. And so working with her and listening to her and Sterling K. Brown and Julia Nicholson and James and all of them. Really kind of watched the way that they worked professionally, but also how they moved around the world. It was just such humility and they weren't trying to like show and they weren't trying to perform and be like, I'm an actor kind of thing. It was that like confidence and that knowing that they had. Yeah, so just seeing how they move and like how they conduct themselves in the world and in the industry as people. That was it.

• 19:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:33Speaker 03

  And I mean, you probably know, that was really aggressive.

• 19:36Speaker 01

  No, it's okay.

• 19:37Speaker 03

  You know yourself, trying to find your feet and like find your voice, but not overshooting it.

• 19:45Speaker 01

  I don't know. I don't know about the second part.

• 19:48Speaker 03

  But finding that balance and also being true to, to the work and not compromising your authenticity for, for what's gonna work, you know, what's gonna.

• 19:59Speaker 01

  What do you mean by that? Compromising your authenticity for what's gonna work?

• 20:02Speaker 03

  I mean, taking job, I mean, like you, some, you're, again, you're still trying to figure it out. And so sometimes in your career, you're equating fame and public acknowledgement for success. But it's not necessarily, you don't necessarily feel fulfilled. So I've, but I always gave myself that 10 years. I was like, this is gonna be like finding my footing and I'm gonna fuck up here. And I'm gonna like be really successful here, but that's gonna, you know?

• 20:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:30Speaker 03

  And so now I definitely, I feel very grounded with it. And with that, it's amazing because then I'm not trying to perform. I'm not trying to prove anymore. And so my brain feels clearer and I feel like I'm living more from here and going after projects more from this space, which is really amazing.

• 20:50Speaker 01

  That's amazing. I'm so happy for you.

• 20:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's really, it is. It's really amazing, man. And just being on that show was just incredible. Like Dan Fogelman as well, just the best.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  Showrunner.

• 21:02Speaker 03

  Showrunner.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 21:04Speaker 03

  So yeah, it was just an incredible experience and I can't wait to go and do. More of it.

• 21:11Speaker 01

  Gag.

• 21:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  Well, I just saw that it's ending after what, five seasons, they said?

• 21:17Speaker 03

  Three.

• 21:18Speaker 01

  What?

• 21:19Speaker 03

  Did they say that?

• 21:19Speaker 01

  No. They, no, it came out, so there's no worries, but when is Paradise ending?

• 21:25Speaker 03

  I think it was three. Dan's always said he's gonna do three.

• 21:27Speaker 01

  Okay, and you know what I love about that? I love a show that knows the story it wants to tell, and it's not just on the air to be on the air.

• 21:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, me too.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  And I think that's where a lot of shows have kind of lost the plot. A show that like knows the stor- like, my favorite show of all time is this show called Dark.

• 21:45Speaker 03

  Never heard of it.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  Oh my god, you would love it. It's German.

• 21:48Speaker 03

  Why would I love it? I'm from Scotland.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  Well, they're close by.

• 21:53Speaker 03

  I mean relatively.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  You've never been to Germany?

• 21:56Speaker 03

  I have been to Germany.

• 21:58Speaker 01

  I've never been to Germany.

• 21:58Speaker 03

  Why are you supporting this argument?

• 22:02Speaker 01

  Well, it's an amazing show, and it's only three seasons, and it's only supposed to be three seasons.

• 22:06Speaker 03

  I love a three-season show. I think it should be three. I think, like you say, like, you know the story that it's trying to tell, you know where it's going. This prologue. I think there's exceptions, though. I think shows like The Office.

• 22:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't, I've tried. I've really, really, I haven't like really tried, but it's like, I've seen all the edits of Jim and Pam, so it's like, alright, I feel like I've seen the show.

• 22:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, but that's the boring part. Jim and Pam part.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  I think that would, people would disagree with that.

• 22:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course. People would disagree with everything.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  Really?

• 22:37Speaker 03

  Well, you tell me. You're on a podcast.

• 22:40Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 22:41Speaker 03

  That's what I was saying before I came here, wasn't it?

• 22:44Speaker 03

  Obviously can't say anything stupid, but even like, you don't even have to.

• 22:48Speaker 01

  I say stupid stuff all the time. You know, I used to think that Florida was at the bottom of the map?

• 22:53Speaker 03

  What, like Antarctica? Wait, what?

• 22:55Speaker 01

  No, like, I thought it went-

• 22:56Speaker 03

  It is at the bottom of America.

• 22:58Speaker 01

  Oh, sorry, I thought it was at the top.

• 22:59Speaker 03

  You thought it was at the top?

• 23:00Speaker 01

  Yes, I used to think it went New York, Florida, Los Angeles.

• 23:05Speaker 03

  That's really stupid.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I also didn't know that Moses and-

• 23:08Speaker 03

  From New York as well.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  Yep. I also didn't know that Moses and Jesus were two separate people. I thought they were the same person. And I discovered in college, in a class, they kept talking about Moses, Jesus, Moses, Jesus, and I kept like referring to them as the same person, and my best friend Julia was like, "Do you think that they are the same person?" And I was like, "Yes," like-

• 23:32Speaker 03

  Well, you brought up Christian.

• 23:33Speaker 01

  No, I'm Jewish.

• 23:34Speaker 03

  You're Jewish. Were you brought up Jewish?

• 23:36Speaker 01

  Like culturally. What are you, are you Catholic?

• 23:39Speaker 03

  I was brought up Catholic.

• 23:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're so Catholic.

• 23:42Speaker 03

  Really? What does that mean?

• 23:43Speaker 01

  You're just like Scottish.

• 23:44Speaker 03

  No, but Scotland's a Protestant country.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  What is Protestant?

• 23:48Speaker 03

  Protestants are just another sect of Christianity.

• 23:51Speaker 01

  So many sects.

• 23:52Speaker 03

  Catholics are like, I know, it's so stressful.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  So many.

• 23:54Speaker 03

  But Catholics are like the hardcore. So what I was told, I always grew up like thinking it was like just chill, normal, but apparently we're.

• 24:02Speaker 01

  Where's your family very religious?

• 24:06Speaker 01

  Like church Sunday.

• 24:07Speaker 03

  Kind of. My gran, she always keeps, she always tells me I'm gonna go to hell.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  Why?

• 24:12Speaker 03

  Never really, there's, I mean, she's a hundred and one.

• 24:16Speaker 01

  Good for her.

• 24:17Speaker 03

  Right, a hundred and one.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  Is she like happy?

• 24:20Speaker 03

  Um, yeah. I mean, I think she's ready to go for sure.

• 24:24Speaker 01

  Like at that age, do you think you'd be like, I'm out?

• 24:27Speaker 03

  I would, at that age, I'd start like shoplifting and stuff.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  Well, at that age, is it just like, like, do you think she wakes up and it's like every day is a blessing or is she like, why am I still here?

• 24:36Speaker 03

  She's like, oh, fuck, I gotta do it again.

• 24:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 24:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:40Speaker 01

  But like, good for her, a hundred and one.

• 24:41Speaker 03

  A hundred and one years old.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  She not smoked cigarettes ever?

• 24:44Speaker 03

  She did. She smoked till she was fifty. And I asked her actually, maybe last year, I was like, I am, cause I used to smoke. And I was like, do you miss it?

• 24:53Speaker 01

  You used to smoke?

• 24:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't smoke. I don't need to.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  You don't smoke cigarettes anymore?

• 24:58Speaker 03

  I've got zins.

• 24:59Speaker 01

  Oh, you don't vape either?

• 25:00Speaker 03

  I don't either, that's why.

• 25:02Speaker 01

  You don't vape?

• 25:02Speaker 03

  I don't vape anymore, no. Cause it's kinda, I feel like when you get past thirty and you're vaping.

• 25:08Speaker 01

  How old are you?

• 25:09Speaker 03

  Thirty.

• 25:10Speaker 01

  Oh my god, okay, cool. How old do you think I am?

• 25:13Speaker 03

  Thirty, I'm doing, uh, twenty eight?

• 25:18Speaker 01

  Twenty six.

• 25:19Speaker 03

  Twenty six.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  Why you?

• 25:22Speaker 03

  Because you hold yourself like older.

• 25:24Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 25:24Speaker 03

  But you look so young.

• 25:26Speaker 01

  Thank you, I've been drinking a lot of water. Do you drink a lot of water?

• 25:29Speaker 03

  I do drink a lot of water.

• 25:30Speaker 01

  Like, do you make a point to drink a lot of water?

• 25:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, I drink maybe a couple liters a day.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  Shut up.

• 25:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:35Speaker 01

  Shut up.

• 25:35Speaker 03

  That's what you should do.

• 25:36Speaker 01

  How do you do that?

• 25:39Speaker 03

  Just, I've got like this little girly, you know, like all the, all the girlies have the.

• 25:44Speaker 01

  Oh, like.

• 25:44Speaker 03

  Equinox.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  Keep going.

• 25:46Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 25:49Speaker 01

  Like that one.

• 25:50Speaker 03

  Almost there.

• 25:50Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 25:52Speaker 03

  You know, I have one of those like, you know, the girlies at Equinox, they have like the big ones with the straw.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  Stanley?

• 25:57Speaker 03

  The Stanleys. Yeah. So I have one of them. And I have it in my fridge, I was gonna tell you. And I fill it up twice a day and drink it.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  What do you fill it up with? Top, top water?

• 26:07Speaker 03

  No, I have a filter in my fridge.

• 26:10Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 26:10Speaker 03

  So like one of those things, but you have to put salt in water.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  Why?

• 26:15Speaker 03

  Because if you just drink straight water, it just goes straight through you. So if you put a pinch of salt, it, it gives the water something to attach to. And so it actually ironically hydrates you.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  A pinch of salt?

• 26:26Speaker 03

  Just a pinch of salt. Yeah. Cause it gives something for it to, fuck, I hope this is right. Some scientist will come. See, he can't say anything.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  No.

• 26:36Speaker 03

  But I think that is right.

• 26:40Speaker 03

  I think you need to like just say no to the boys for now. And just like really build up that self-esteem and that. I had to do it as well.

• 26:47Speaker 01

  Really?

• 26:48Speaker 03

  I was really bad. Yeah. I like definitely compromised my authenticity for attachment, which is very unhealthy.

• 26:56Speaker 01

  Okay. You use a lot of big words. And I know that what you are saying makes sense, but.

• 27:03Speaker 03

  But you thought Florida was above New York.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  You, I need you to explain what you mean by sacrificing your authenticity for attachment. Like you were being somebody else in order to maintain a relationship?

• 27:15Speaker 03

  Um, I would, yeah, I would comp, not, I wouldn't be somebody else, but I would definitely compromise things that were authentic to me.

• 27:27Speaker 03

  To make sure that I wasn't a, it's all childhood stuff.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  Right. Okay, totally.

• 27:31Speaker 03

  And a wonderful family and upbringing. But I mean, everyone, everyone's fucked.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:36Speaker 03

  Their childhood. Um.

• 27:40Speaker 03

  And so I did, I definitely, definitely would do that. Which isn't fair to the person, of course.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  Like, what do you mean? Like, give me an example.

• 27:47Speaker 03

  I'll give you an actual example.

• 27:48Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 27:49Speaker 03

  I remember I was with this girl, um, who I was in a relationship with.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:54Speaker 03

  Um, and she was like, oh, I like guys with gold jewelry. I like, I like gold jewelry.

• 28:01Speaker 01

  So, obviously you bought gold jewelry.

• 28:03Speaker 03

  But I like, like silver jewelry.

• 28:05Speaker 01

  Right.

• 28:06Speaker 03

  But I would compromise what I authentically like, silver jewelry. So that she would like gold jewelry on me, so that she would like me, so she would, do you know what I mean?

• 28:16Speaker 01

  And that's a bad thing?

• 28:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, that is a bad thing. How do you not see that that's a bad thing?

• 28:20Speaker 01

  It's just gold jewelry.

• 28:23Speaker 03

  But the principle of the thing, and then you can sta- and then you can start to, then, then you're not living authentically.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  Okay, that's fa- that's fair.

• 28:31Speaker 03

  And then you can fi- then you can become resentful.

• 28:34Speaker 01

  Okay, can we survey the room? Is that a bad thing?

• 28:36Speaker 03

  It depends what mindset you're doing it from.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  Oh, Louis is, Louis like, is Mrs. She's no, this, she's fucking Mrs. High Horse. Like, I can't with her.

• 28:46Speaker 03

  Exactly. You fi-

• 28:49Speaker 01

  Okay, that's fine. That's fine.

• 28:50Speaker 03

  And it's all, it's all like stemmed from-

• 28:52Speaker 01

  Do you think I've already been sacrificing things that are authentic to me?

• 28:55Speaker 03

  I think you will a hundred percent.

• 28:57Speaker 01

  Really?

• 28:58Speaker 03

  Definitely.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  Like what?

• 28:59Speaker 03

  Survey the room? Yeah.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  Like what? What have I sacrificed so far?

• 29:04Speaker 03

  Cause you aren't like, you, you have insecurities and you're not so confident and loving enough in yourself.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  Wait, so you've been working for, you would say, ten years now?

• 29:15Speaker 03

  It's been ten years, yeah. I got my first, I started with Disney.

• 29:18Speaker 01

  Oh my god, you were in The Descendants?

• 29:20Speaker 03

  I was, yeah.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  Oh my god, I totally forgot about that. And that, how quickly did that happen? So you started when you were, you started pursuing this when you were twenty?

• 29:29Speaker 03

  I started pursuing, so I went to college when I was seventeen.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:33Speaker 03

  And I was there for three years. And then I came out of college and I did a play in the fringe. Uh-

• 29:40Speaker 03

  And that's where I was working in Tiger Lily, because I couldn't really afford to live in London. And Edinburgh and London are about an hour away on a flight. So I used to work during the day, get on a plane, on my days off and fly down to London and just steal my friends sofas for two days and like just do like meet cast and directors and try and fit in auditions and try and make it work. But I didn't, I really didn't have, this isn't some like annoying story. But I really didn't have that much money and had amazing parents who were like, you got to figure it out. They would always would have given me whatever I needed, but good parenting there. Thanks, mum and dad.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  Oh, that's great. You seem like you're from a good family.

• 30:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're great. But I'd get the night bus back up to Edinburgh, which was like 10 hours or something.

• 30:25Speaker 01

  What?

• 30:25Speaker 03

  And I would get off the night bus, I'd go shower and stuff and then go to work again.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 30:30Speaker 03

  So I like really like put in a graft to try and make this work. And then Disney happened. So that kind of, that definitely changed my life.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  How old were you when Disney happened?

• 30:38Speaker 03

  Twenty.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  So two years, two years of hard work and you got to send it?

• 30:42Speaker 03

  No, not even like six months.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  Okay. Wow. And then when did the Gossip Girl reboot happen?

• 30:49Speaker 03

  Oh, and then I had did a bunch of jobs in between and then after Covid, during Covid. Actually, we were meant to go and then Covid happened in 2020.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  And how pumped were you when you found out you got Gossip Girl?

• 31:01Speaker 03

  I was excited. I was, I, I was, I was told it would be more kind of, because I wasn't that keen at the time to do a Gossip Girl, Gossip Girl. But I was told it'd be more kind of euphoria, kind of sprinkled into it.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  Why weren't you keen to do Gossip Girl at the time?

• 31:21Speaker 03

  Um, again, 24, finding my feet, comparing how my career should be, what I should be, how I should be seen, how it, that, that, all that ego stuff.

• 31:33Speaker 01

  What did you think, now that you're past it, what did you think? This is how I should be seen and this is what my career should be. Like what were, what did you think?

• 31:42Speaker 03

  I think. What do I think I should have been?

• 31:45Speaker 01

  No, what did you like think at the time?

• 31:47Speaker 03

  Oh, at the time. I mean, you always compare yourself um to other actors that are doing, which is the worst thing you can possibly do. But I mean, you you're looking at

• 31:56Speaker 01

  Can't help yourself.

• 31:56Speaker 03

  amazing actors like Shalhoub or whoever else was kicking around then. And they're doing really these amazing films that are going to like award seasons and stuff. And so then your ego flares up and you're you're insecure and you're like, oh, no, I want to be cool. And like, I want to do all this cool stuff. It was incredible job, incredible opportunity. I met incredible people. They're I've got best friends to this day. Do you meet? Have you met Eli?

• 32:21Speaker 01

  I have met him.

• 32:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  I met him at Tenants at the Trees in Los Angeles.

• 32:25Speaker 03

  Just the best guy.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, he is so so lovely.

• 32:28Speaker 03

  Oh, just the best.

• 32:29Speaker 01

  So he is the one you're so close with?

• 32:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was just staying with him and his girlfriend.

• 32:32Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 32:33Speaker 03

  Right now.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  Okay, so you feel moral of the story. Do you find yourself, you're like, I for the past five years since Gossip Girl, like, you were reaching for this thing and you were comparing yourself and you finally feel like you're at this stage where you're like, maybe just happy?

• 32:52Speaker 03

  The all of that stuff was definitely symptomatic of a much deeper thing of I wasn't able to validate myself ultimately is kind of what I see that now. And so the best or the worst place depends where you are in the journey of validation is Hollywood. You know, because you're getting all this validation. You have this opportunity to get all of that external validation. And no matter how much I got, no matter how much I tried, it was never it was never filling me.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  So what was the moment that you let go of that?

• 33:33Speaker 03

  I didn't have a choice.

• 33:35Speaker 01

  What do you mean?

• 33:36Speaker 03

  I just wasn't myself. I like completely lost myself. And it was it's a kind of weird thing to say when you're like, well, how could you lose something that you don't know? You know, I think I grew up and all my energy, I was very hypervigilant to my surroundings and what was going on outside. So I never really like. Properly developed this sense of Thomas, you know, and I was always very kind of out there and theatrical and very performative and that all kind of just carried through.

• 34:10Speaker 03

  And so I think maybe a year ago, I had a point where

• 34:17Speaker 03

  it became crystal clear what it was I was trying to do. I was trying to fill this void inside of me with other people and no matter how hard you try, you will never. And so then I stopped doing that and took a, took a beat and sat through some

• 34:37Speaker 03

  pain, you know, it's, you can't run away from it. And I tried it all with everything.

• 34:44Speaker 03

  Fame, money. And like none of it, it just makes everything worse. And I got to a point where I was like, this is my only way out. And luckily I love acting so much, so I can always go back to that. That's always been very, that's been really stable. It's been a stability for me. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to just go back into that and have this as my friend. And just work through things and be able and develop this sense of self and self acceptance and self love. And try and meet all that shame face on, because it all just leads to one thing, you know, you try and avoid this shame by doing this shameful thing. And then because of that, you're like ashamed.

• 35:28Speaker 03

  And then you want to escape that shame and then you ultimately end up, you know, so it's like just a downward spiral.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  You went through these like wax and waning periods of like, you'd have a project and you'd get attention and then you wouldn't, and then you would, and then you wouldn't. And I think, was that hard for you?

• 35:45Speaker 03

  Um.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  Is that what you were trying to say, or did I misread it entirely?

• 35:50Speaker 03

  No, that, I mean, that's definitely an aspect of it to kind of, again, the inability to, and I'm not trying to like preach, don't take my like word.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  No, like, this is your truth. This is your truth.

• 36:02Speaker 03

  But yeah, I, it's, and it all boiled up to like relatively recently to this like clarity that I had of if I, this is, this is the only way. It is the only way to be able to self-regulate and self-validate. That's it.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  And you were surrounded by such lovely people that you worked with that didn't share that mindset. That were like, went to work as like, this is, you know, my job. Like this is like, as you were saying at the very beginning of the show, you were like, these people didn't have an ego, like, they were, they like really loved acting. Like you weren't around people that also like, like they were all, does that make sense?

• 36:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean,

• 36:45Speaker 01

  You were on a healthy set.

• 36:47Speaker 03

  I was on a very, very healthy set, yeah.

• 36:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:49Speaker 03

  I mean, Dan doesn't take, you would never, it would never survive, you know?

• 36:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:55Speaker 03

  On, on one of his sets, because he's such a beautiful human and everything, the culture on the set is derived from a showrunner. And so the culture on the set is just amazing and they've all worked together for so long, so. But I think, no, everything,

• 37:13Speaker 03

  everything truly happens for a reason.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  Ugh, I know.

• 37:18Speaker 03

  I do, do believe that. I mean, and I've not, I've not lost anyone that is close to me in my life, apart from my grandmother when I was like fifteen.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  How old was she, that one?

• 37:30Speaker 03

  Ninety.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  Ninety?

• 37:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:32Speaker 01

  Probably like similar vibe.

• 37:35Speaker 03

  Of?

• 37:36Speaker 01

  Like, oh, I'm good.

• 37:37Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah, yeah, like ready, yeah.

• 37:39Speaker 01

  Right?

• 37:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, very like religious as well. So she's gone up to see the big man.

• 37:43Speaker 01

  Oh, do you believe in that?

• 37:45Speaker 03

  I believe in,

• 37:47Speaker 01

  Like a higher power?

• 37:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:49Speaker 03

  But I also believe that we are that power. I don't think there's any like moment of separation apart from when it's our brain, our ego. I think that's the only separation in universally.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  What is an ego? Like what is that? I never understood that. I took Freud in high school. I didn't get it.

• 38:12Speaker 01

  I didn't.

• 38:13Speaker 03

  You should be telling me what the ego and the super ego and all that.

• 38:16Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 38:19Speaker 03

  I love Eckhart Tolle. Do you know Eckhart Tolle? He did The Power of No.

• 38:25Speaker 03

  He talks about the ego is this false sense of self. So it doesn't even necessarily, everyone equates the word ego with like, I'm amazing and.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  Right, right, right.

• 38:35Speaker 03

  This Broadway show that I'm doing.

• 38:40Speaker 03

  But it's more like, uh, false. That's why I have this tattooed here.

• 38:44Speaker 01

  What does that say?

• 38:45Speaker 03

  It's backwards, so I'm so excited for you to try.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 38:51Speaker 01

  Mind if I? Oh, okay.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  So, okay, let me see. I see a W. W. Do you mind if I move the necklace or? Okay. Who is this? Who is?

• 39:10Speaker 01

  Who?

• 39:10Speaker 03

  Who is this I?

• 39:13Speaker 01

  A what?

• 39:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, so like, I guess it's kind of like come from this idea to challenge this egoic self. Or egoic I. Like what Thomas is. What I believe Thomas is.

• 39:30Speaker 03

  So it's like a challenge and question. There's no punctuation on it. It's very open ended.

• 39:34Speaker 01

  People that aren't from America are so smart. It's like painful.

• 39:38Speaker 03

  I'm not smart.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  Clearly I.

• 39:40Speaker 03

  No, no, no. This is just like interest. This has like been so.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  While you are talking to me, like I feel like I'm, each word you say, I have to like quickly dictionary it in my head so I can piece the sentence together. Do you know what I mean?

• 39:55Speaker 03

  No, I didn't think I was using the right words.

• 39:58Speaker 01

  Do you know what I mean?

• 40:00Speaker 03

  I could, yeah.

• 40:04Speaker 03

  Dictionary.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Do you understand?

• 40:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, I'm following.

• 40:10Speaker 03

  Ultimately, it's just like, I was very, I was just, I was just, I was just growing up and I had a lot of insecurities and a complete inability to self-validate. And being around, and I've been up and down so, so, so many times. And honestly, turning thirty does something.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  Well, you know, you just finished your Saturn return.

• 40:32Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  Do you know what that is?

• 40:34Speaker 03

  I do know what that is, yeah.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:35Speaker 03

  People were saying that when I was in the trenches.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Oh, it's true.

• 40:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  She's going through hers right now.

• 40:42Speaker 03

  Really? What's happening with you?

• 40:44Speaker 01

  Take the mic.

• 40:45Speaker 03

  You're gonna get attacked.

• 40:46Speaker 04

  No, I don't need the mic.

• 40:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  Take the mic.

• 40:48Speaker 04

  Like in the beginning stages, so I'm not quite sure what the lesson is yet that I'm.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  That needed to learn. What was the lesson you thought you learned in your Saturn return?

• 40:56Speaker 03

  You can, only, only you can make you, only you can be happy. And I always thought I needed something to be happy.

• 41:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 41:04Speaker 03

  And then I realized, oh, you can actually just like be happy. Which was a brand new concept to me. Cause I feel like in this world, like in the Western world, it's always like, you're always made to feel ugly or your clothes are, your style's bad. But if you buy this product, then you're gonna be happy, then that's gonna complete you. And then after time, it's like, you buy a new pair of shoes and then you're so pumped and hyped on them for a week. And then you'll do it again and it's five days and then eventually it gets down to like ten minutes.

• 41:38Speaker 03

  And you, you, you, you just, you use that mechanism of escapism and false dopamine. You, you wear it out, then you're just left with your shit. And then you just gotta look at it, you just gotta go through it, or you can continue to escape. I knew that, I saw the mechanisms, I was, what was, what I was doing. I was so crystal clear on inability to validate myself. I had all these insecurities. And so I just, I, I didn't have a, I didn't, I, I don't, I believe I didn't have a choice. But I'm so grateful for everything that's happened.

• 42:12Speaker 01

  Okay, that's really beautiful.

• 42:14Speaker 03

  Otherwise I wouldn't be here.

• 42:15Speaker 01

  With me.

• 42:16Speaker 03

  With you.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  I can't believe I just did that. So, do you never get, so my issue that I find is that like, I want to be happy for happiness sake, but I get so worried that something, have you ever heard, heard the song Happy and Sad by Kacey Musgraves? No. You should listen to it. I love Follow Your, Follow Your Arrow though. You do? I love that. Isn't that such a good song? It's a rapper. She's amazing. She's so good. Have you heard anything else by her? No, just that one song. Oh, my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god. I'm not a big my country music guy though, really? It doesn't matter, no, like it really, she crosses it, like it really, like, oh my god, she is like so incredible, like her album Golden Hour is one of like, it's probably one of the best country albums I've ever heard of in my albums, I've ever heard in my entire life. Okay, golden.

• 43:04Speaker 01

  Her wordplay and the way she's able to describe

• 43:10Speaker 01

  these really universal feelings that are so difficult to describe by just kind of like describing them as they are, Mm-hmm. is like so unique, like she has this song called Happy and Sad and it's like about that feeling when you're really happy and you can't like let yourself be happy because you're so scared and you're so on the defense um of something bad happening. So she's, the song is about the like anxieties of finding joy and being happy and I just think that there is like nobody else like that really is able to tap into such

• 43:51Speaker 01

  you, like those like real human like experiences like she has, like I think she's like so, so, so incredible. Okay, I'm gonna listen to it. What's it, Golden? Golden Hour. Golden Hour. One of the best albums of the last twenty years and then also she has a song called Merry Go Round, which is also really incredible, it's probably one of my favorite songs by her and the wordplay on Merry Go Round is like really is sick. It's like sickening, like you'll listen to it and you, you know, when you listen to rap music and you kind of like make a stank face? Yeah. Like when you listen to Merry Go Round, you're like. Two years, yeah. Like, mm, you know, you know what I mean? I love Kacey Musgraves.

• 44:34Speaker 01

  Does anyone here listen to Kacey Musgraves? How accurate was that description of happy and sad?

• 44:39Speaker 03

  Okay, I'm gonna listen to it.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  It is the best, like, and it really makes me feel so seen because that is my issue with happiness. It's like, I know I can be happy and I always try to, like, like, everyone today was like, you were in such a good mood. And I keep saying, like, just, I know, but just wait, because it can't last.

• 44:55Speaker 03

  Because it's based on...

• 44:56Speaker 01

  It's based on...

• 44:57Speaker 03

  Your mood is based on this guy. So that means that you're at the mercy of external forces. So you're never, like, really... I have a really, really good friend, Josiah, and he is a bit older. And he doesn't look for happiness, he just looks for peace. And I think if you start looking for contentment and peace, yeah, it's like the paradox of life. You search for happiness, can't find it, you stop searching, happiness is there. I'm really into paradoxes of life right now.

• 45:32Speaker 01

  What's another paradox of life?

• 45:34Speaker 03

  Um, okay, I'm not that into paradoxes of life, evidently. But there is a, I really, can someone look up paradoxes of life? There's, like, major ones.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  It's like when you stop looking for something, then it comes to you?

• 45:46Speaker 03

  I like Joe Rogan there, that was good. Can you look up, uh...

• 45:50Speaker 01

  Is that what he does?

• 45:51Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, Jamie, that's it.

• 45:54Speaker 04

  More failures can lead to greater success.

• 45:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:58Speaker 01

  Love that, more, more, more.

• 46:00Speaker 04

  Slowing down can help you speed up in the long run. The harder you push for something, the harder it will feel to achieve.

• 46:07Speaker 01

  What do you mean? The harder you push for something, the harder it will feel to achieve. What does that mean?

• 46:17Speaker 03

  Okay, I'll equate it to auditioning. If you're like...

• 46:20Speaker 01

  That's what I was equating, trying, okay, go.

• 46:22Speaker 03

  Really want a job, and you're like, need a job, and you go into the room with the cast and directors. They will smell it off you instantly, the desperation, and they don't want that.

• 46:35Speaker 03

  Whereas you always hear these stories about people being like, yeah, they like wanna do it. But like I pulled up to the audition and I got the job because there's that element's not there that like.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 46:46Speaker 03

  And people can feel that.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  With Broadway, I had no idea it was gonna happen, but like it kind of happened by like chance. Ashley Park was supposed to be in the play and I think something happened and she she couldn't do it anymore.

• 46:59Speaker 03

  Ashley Park, I know Ashley.

• 47:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:02Speaker 03

  She's lovely.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  I've never met her.

• 47:04Speaker 03

  She's really nice.

• 47:04Speaker 01

  I've heard she is so lovely.

• 47:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, she's nice.

• 47:06Speaker 01

  But that's how that play came to me and it's been the best like one of the best experiences of my life, but it's not something I like went out and sought after so desperately.

• 47:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that's the that's the whole thing about surrender. And honestly, as disenfranchising as the world is right now and I just apathetic everyone is like with the files coming out and just there is something, the silver lining that I can take from it is that there was always like some part of me that felt like I was had control. But now like all of this stuff coming out, you're like, oh my God, I have zilt, like I have no control. So then you're like, well, what do you, what can you control? And I can control, so you will, no one will be able to take a choice away from you. And so you can still cultivate what you want to feel like.

• 47:59Speaker 03

  You can control how you react to things and respond to things and how you like share your love with your immediate circle and stuff in life. And which goes in with

• 48:12Speaker 03

  kind of fundamental religious and spiritual teachings of surrendering. And it's almost like you surrender to the thing that's greater than you, which is also you. And that the universe has always got your back or God's always got you covered. And the minute your ego gets involved, that's what happened with me as well. Your ego, your, I tried to like control things and like make things work, but it's never gonna happen because I can't do that. And I fucked it up. So you have to surrender to something much greater than yourself.

• 48:43Speaker 03

  Universe, God, life, whatever, however you see it.

• 48:49Speaker 03

  And then something happens and there's just this ease to life. And then when the ease, you start getting a little bit successful, you ease, then the ego jumps back in, fucks it all up. That's what I've found.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  I was just so moved.

• 49:02Speaker 03

  But it's really terrifying.

• 49:04Speaker 01

  Because you're so right, you have to like go through the hard stuff. And then like kind of re-acclimate into the peace and into the that and then, but your ego will always be there. It'll always be there and you just have to learn how to deal with it.

• 49:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that's, yeah, you have to stay vigilant and meditation is really helpful for that.

• 49:21Speaker 01

  Are you finding with Paradise and the success of Paradise, your ego jumping back in at times?

• 49:28Speaker 03

  No, not at all, actually.

• 49:29Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 49:30Speaker 03

  Because I've kind of done it, done the dance enough that I knew what I was going to come into.

• 49:37Speaker 03

  And so I allowed myself to like spike, be proud of myself and all the rest of it during the premiere. And just to like enjoy, enjoy the moment and kind of take a pause to see where I am and what I've achieved now. That's a whole other conversation of the, what I've achieved. I chop it up to good fortune, luck and the people around me and the experiences that I've been fortunate enough to have in life, which I've lived another experience, which has led to this, you know, so I, I can't even really take credit for that anymore, not to be, sound like a martyr.

• 50:14Speaker 01

  No, I got it.

• 50:15Speaker 03

  But I think with, um, I, I, I knew what I was going into and you can't attach yourself to anything either.

• 50:22Speaker 01

  What do you mean you can't attach yourself to anything?

• 50:24Speaker 03

  So for example, Paradise is coming out, the premiere comes out, everyone's taking pictures of you. Naturally, you're human, you'll get like a dopamine hit.

• 50:33Speaker 01

  Duh.

• 50:34Speaker 03

  You're sad, I don't know.

• 50:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:36Speaker 03

  And then it's inevitably gonna come down and I need and then I let it come down. And then I kind of move on from that aspect of it and then go back to the acting.

• 50:47Speaker 03

  Whereas if I, the premiere comes out, I attach to that feeling, oh, I'm starting to feel a lull, but I don't wanna feel alone, I wanna get back up there.

• 50:54Speaker 01

  Right, right, right.

• 50:54Speaker 03

  And then it's released, oh my god, more, oh, perfect. And then you attach to that, two weeks and something else is gonna

• 51:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 51:01Speaker 03

  replace it. Some other show is gonna come out somewhere. And then you're just gonna be disappointed. And then you're gonna be like, fuck, I wanna get that feeling again. So you go after that feeling again. And by going after that feeling again, all I'll do is compromise authenticity with my work and with who I am to get this almost hit of a drug. And then you're in the weeds and then you start doing this and you start going down. And then you get to a point in a month or in a year or in five years or 10 years where you're like, oh, I'm not myself again.

• 51:34Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 51:35Speaker 03

  Because I compromised all of this stuff for ego fulfillment, which is never fulfilled. And the whole nature of the ego, you, much smarter people can speak on this, but the rudimentary of what I think it is, is the ego's whole process system is to survive.

• 51:55Speaker 01

  Like an organism.

• 51:56Speaker 03

  Kind of, yeah. Like its own thing, its own entity.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  Wow. So your ego is not your friend?

• 52:02Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 52:03Speaker 01

  Like, would people say it's your friend?

• 52:05Speaker 03

  I think some people, yeah. Like Andrew Tate, mate.

• 52:08Speaker 01

  Oh, okay. So like, bad people would say it's your friend?

• 52:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Like, these guys are like, I'll do anything. They'll never do therapy.

• 52:16Speaker 01

  Right. Are you in therapy?

• 52:17Speaker 03

  I am, yeah.

• 52:18Speaker 01

  How is?

• 52:20Speaker 03

  It's good.

• 52:20Speaker 01

  Boy or girl?

• 52:21Speaker 03

  Girl.

• 52:22Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 52:23Speaker 03

  Always girl, yeah.

• 52:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think I need a guy therapist, weirdly enough. I always try to become the girl's friend.

• 52:29Speaker 03

  Okay, okay, that's interesting.

• 52:31Speaker 01

  I always.

• 52:32Speaker 03

  I can see that.

• 52:32Speaker 01

  I always try to become the like.

• 52:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, but if it was a guy, it has to be an ugly guy then, cause you're just trying.

• 52:35Speaker 01

  I wasn't gonna say it, but yeah.

• 52:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  Like, I used to have this doctor, he was so hot, and I saw him on Hinge once, and I literally was like, do I like him or not? And like, it took me like twenty minutes, honestly, it took me an entire day to be like, I can't like him.

• 52:52Speaker 03

  No.

• 52:53Speaker 01

  Do you remember that, Louis?

• 52:54Speaker 03

  You probably did it, it's like when you're in high school, and like, the geography teacher's like, oh, she's so hot, or he's so hot.

• 53:02Speaker 01

  Did you ever have a thing with the teacher in college?

• 53:04Speaker 03

  No, but it's like when you're in high school and everyone's like, oh yeah, the geography teacher's really hot, but she's not actually hot, it's more the idea that she's a teacher. It's like, your doctor probably wasn't actually that hot, be honest.

• 53:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay, do you wanna do the tell me what's wrongs?

• 53:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  I was traveling back to my boyfriend's city and the flight got delayed. When I told him the arrival was at four AM, he refused to stay up for me and opened the door because he needed to, he needed to sleep. His solution was to just get a long breakfast or nap at the airport. Is this normal? Wait, no, what?

• 53:39Speaker 03

  No, that is kinda crazy.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  That's crazy, at first, I was like, oh.

• 53:42Speaker 03

  How old is she?

• 53:43Speaker 01

  I don't know, but at first, I was like, okay, he didn't wanna come get you at the airport at four AM, like, that's fine. But if he locked the door and didn't want you to come in and go get a long breakfast?

• 53:54Speaker 03

  There's someone else in the apartment.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  That is.

• 53:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:57Speaker 01

  Oh, you think? So my first instinct, obviously, is to be like, break up with him. And I mean that, actually, you know what, I'm gonna say that, that's horrible.

• 54:06Speaker 03

  Well, there's so many factors though, isn't there? Like, how old are you, how long have you been together for? If it's north of like, five months, and you're north of eighteen.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  So would north be less than five months or more than, more than five months?

• 54:22Speaker 03

  You're fucking joking.

• 54:24Speaker 01

  You know what, I'm not.

• 54:25Speaker 03

  No.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  So, north is more than, okay.

• 54:28Speaker 03

  More than, yeah.

• 54:28Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 54:32Speaker 01

  You know, I graduated cum laude.

• 54:34Speaker 03

  I don't fucking believe that. Yeah, so I think all these facts, so I think if you're older than eighteen,

• 54:42Speaker 03

  if you've been dating more than five months,

• 54:46Speaker 03

  that's just awful.

• 54:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's awful.

• 54:48Speaker 03

  That's really mean, that must, like, that must be sad.

• 54:50Speaker 01

  And you're traveling to go see your boyfriend.

• 54:53Speaker 03

  Oh, is that what she's saying?

• 54:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 54:55Speaker 03

  You gotta pull up for sure.

• 54:57Speaker 01

  My boyfriend's mom follows me on Instagram and watches every single story within seconds and once replied, "Interesting," to a bikini pic. "Sure, we were high school sweethearts, but we're almost finished with college. It's weird." Do I block her or is that worse? Yeah, so you can't block her. Do you think that if the mother or father-in-law is, like, really difficult, that that should end a relationship?

• 55:23Speaker 03

  It depends. It depends how intrusive they are in the relationship.

• 55:27Speaker 01

  Well, in this situation.

• 55:28Speaker 03

  In this situation, you're commenting.

• 55:31Speaker 01

  She's like responding, "Interesting," to her bikini pic. I'd be like, fuck you. You're so passive aggressive.

• 55:37Speaker 03

  I'd think I'd double down, just to piss her off more.

• 55:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't think end the relationship, but I think.

• 55:41Speaker 03

  No, you don't think end the relationship. Definitely talk to your partner about it.

• 55:44Speaker 01

  And you can get feisty with the mom. Be like, if she's gonna come for me, I'm gonna come for her right back.

• 55:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, what would you say?

• 55:49Speaker 01

  Interesting. I'd be like, I know, I look good, right?

• 55:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Your son.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  Or I'd respond like, "You like?" question mark. I'd like, I'd be like, whatever.

• 55:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:00Speaker 01

  And then like, if the boyfriend breaks up with me because the mom is crazy, then that's not my problem.

• 56:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's also kinda dark as well.

• 56:06Speaker 01

  I'm twenty-nine and I've been with my boyfriend for nine years. We own a house together and for some reason I had a feeling he would propose, but it hasn't happened yet. He's been talking a lot about next steps and for him that would be kids. I've mentioned marriage a few times lately and found that he hasn't even considered ring shopping. Do you think that's a me problem, the fact that I would like to be married first, or do you think that's reasonable before kids? Personally, for me, I think it's reasonable before kids. However, there are a lot of people in this world that do not believe in the institution of marriage.

• 56:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. I mean, I think if you're like raising a child, to have that financial security structure.

• 56:42Speaker 01

  Agreed.

• 56:43Speaker 03

  Supporting the child. So it's like you do it for the child. Even if you don't want to, I think it's good for a child to have that.

• 56:49Speaker 01

  What I will say is I don't think it's like.

• 56:53Speaker 01

  With bad intent that he's saying he doesn't want to get married. I don't think he doesn't, I don't think he's not considering marriage because he doesn't want to marry you if he's talking about wanting to have kids with you.

• 57:04Speaker 03

  Well, that's the way I was confused.

• 57:05Speaker 01

  Do you know what I mean? Like, I think maybe this is a larger conversation of like, hey, do you like not want to do marriage as a whole? And like that, having that conversation. And if you cannot get on the same page with that, then maybe you do have to go your separate ways if marriage is so important to you. But if he's more important to you as a person, then maybe you can work through it.

• 57:26Speaker 03

  I think look up and research the impacts.

• 57:32Speaker 03

  Studies, I'm sure there's loads of studies about kids being raised in a, in a, with two parents.

• 57:38Speaker 01

  Oh, you want to convince him.

• 57:40Speaker 03

  Versus kids that are in a marriage.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  Okay, so look up a study.

• 57:46Speaker 03

  And so just whatever's best for the child. If you're gonna bring a child into the world, everything needs to be about the child. Every child should be a narcissist.

• 57:54Speaker 01

  What?

• 57:54Speaker 03

  Every child should be a narcissist. I.e. only think about themselves, only develop themselves. Cause that's when you like, then you know who you are and then you like go into the world.

• 58:07Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 58:08Speaker 03

  So I think whatever's best for the child.

• 58:09Speaker 01

  Love that energy. Basically, my roommate keeps, oh, oh my god. Basically, my roommate keeps getting handjobs from his boyfriend every time we do a movie night, hang out, etc. and pretend we don't notice. Like, full eye contact and talking.

• 58:23Speaker 03

  Start again. That really fucking took me away there.

• 58:27Speaker 01

  Basically, my roommate keeps getting handjobs from his boyfriend every time we do a movie night, hang out, etc. and pretend we don't notice. Like, full eye contact and talking to us like it's literally not happening. One time, he asked me to pass him his water during it. How do I address this?

• 58:44Speaker 01

  That is so crazy.

• 58:47Speaker 03

  Look at me, look at me.

• 58:49Speaker 01

  That is so crazy. I would be like, hey, by the way, like, this is so weird. Like, everybody thinks it's weird and like.

• 58:58Speaker 03

  I'd be like, what you guys doing?

• 58:59Speaker 01

  No, I would be like, I need to talk to you. Like, not only do I think, like, I don't mean to embarrass you because like, I don't know if you know this, but like, we all know that you're getting a handjob while we all hang out. And like, it is just like, super confusing. And like, I understand that like, you might be so in love with each other and so obsessed with each other. And like, I love that for you. But like, for us, like, I don't want to see that period. It's weird. It makes me feel weird. And like, you need to stop. And if you can't stop, then we cannot hang out as a group anymore. Period.

• 59:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:28Speaker 01

  That was great advice.

• 59:29Speaker 03

  That was really good advice. Yeah. Nothing more to add on that. What's late night?

• 59:33Speaker 01

  What?

• 59:33Speaker 03

  What's late night?

• 59:34Speaker 01

  Late night? Oh, it was when I went on Seth Meyers.

• 59:38Speaker 03

  Is that what that is?

• 59:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:39Speaker 03

  That's so cool, man. You should be so proud of yourself.

• 59:42Speaker 01

  Thomas.

• 59:42Speaker 03

  You really should.

• 59:43Speaker 01

  Thank you. I didn't really feel it in the moment. I couldn't feel it. But then like, my parents were texting me and their friends were texting them. And I was getting a bunch of texts from like, everyone being like, that's so cool.

• 59:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, dude, even I saw it. I was like, what the fuck? This is awesome.

• 59:53Speaker 01

  Oh, Thomas, thank you.

• 59:54Speaker 03

  Really? That's so cute.

• 59:55Speaker 01

  But it doesn't feel, when you're doing it in the moment, it doesn't feel like, it's very hard to like, rationalize that, like, it's, this is correct. So it, like, imposter syndrome, I guess.

• 1:00:06Speaker 03

  Is it imposter syndrome?

• 1:00:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:08Speaker 01

  And I don't mean to say that. I feel like sometimes saying like, I have imposter syndrome, like, it can toe the line of being very pick me. But like, I really did actually feel that.

• 1:00:16Speaker 03

  You're riddled with imposter syndrome.

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  Oh, you think so?

• 1:00:19Speaker 03

  Oh, absolutely.

• 1:00:20Speaker 01

  Okay, cool.

• 1:00:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. I had imposter syndrome so much as well.

• 1:00:24Speaker 01

  I think it's because I started my career on an app that isn't considered like, traditional. So when I do something of a traditional talent nature, I feel very like, this doesn't feel right, even though I want this, and I want this to happen, and I want it to feel right. It doesn't feel right because I came up on an app that isn't in that field. So like, the merging of those two, which is like, happening right now, is just, makes me feel weird. It makes me very happy. It's what I've always wanted. But I do like, feel like, oh my God, am I supposed to be here?

• 1:01:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, I can get that. A hundred percent. I mean, you're a very nation. You've developed and created something very unique. I mean, I can look at. Chat shows and like see how other actors are and how they conduct themselves whereas you're definitely trailblazing.

• 1:01:16Speaker 01

  Oh, what?

• 1:01:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure. Dude, it's unbelievable. You were on that show.

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  You wanna hang out Wednesday after the show?

• 1:01:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  You wanna like just go get high, do something?

• 1:01:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:27Speaker 01

  Let's do it.

• 1:01:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:29Speaker 01

  Oh my god, you are the best. Has anyone ever like told you that?

• 1:01:34Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:01:35Speaker 01

  You are the best.

• 1:01:36Speaker 03

  My grand does and then she tells me I'm going to hell in the same sentence.

• 1:01:39Speaker 01

  Oh, love her. I would love her.

• 1:01:41Speaker 03

  Disorganized attachment because of her.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  All my, all of, what'd you say? Sorry?

• 1:01:45Speaker 03

  Got disorganized attachment because of.

• 1:01:46Speaker 01

  Oh, I, I, the attachment theories. Jenny, Alex was trying to explain to me the attachment theories the other day. Like, like anxious attachment, like all that stuff and I'm very, I'm gonna like look into it because I'm very interested.

• 1:02:00Speaker 03

  It's really, really interesting. It'll get you closer to you because then you'll see.

• 1:02:04Speaker 01

  What you are.

• 1:02:05Speaker 03

  Yeah. Kind of fun, honestly.

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  No, I know. Psychology is like interesting.

• 1:02:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:10Speaker 01

  All of my, interesting.

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  All of my friends are going abroad next semester except for me. None of them told me they were signing up for it and they made a separate group chat to talk about Pliny and everything. Oh my god, girl.

• 1:02:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:22Speaker 01

  Wow. It's not like I could afford it anyways, but I'm going to be living alone and all my roommates and friends are going to be living together in Rome.

• 1:02:29Speaker 03

  Just realize that they're not your people and that they're treating you disrespectfully and you don't allow yourself to be treated with disrespect and then you just part ways.

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  I was supposed to go abroad and then covid happened and I'm so grateful that.

• 1:02:40Speaker 03

  Abroad to work?

• 1:02:41Speaker 01

  No, like, um, in the States when people, um, like, uh, go to, like, when people go to college in the States, um, there's this thing, like junior year, a lot of people will take a semester and go to Europe abroad.

• 1:02:55Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:02:55Speaker 01

  And I was supposed to go to London and then covid happened and I'm so great, I'm not grateful that covid happened, but I'm grateful that it led me to not going abroad because then I had an incredible job that led me to meet Louise, that led me here to talk to you now.

• 1:03:10Speaker 03

  So you really like, I've been doing this five years.

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  I've been doing this for three years. I would say like almost three on the dot.

• 1:03:17Speaker 03

  And like what he should ju- jump.

• 1:03:18Speaker 01

  I know, it's crazy, but it feels so long.

• 1:03:21Speaker 03

  You're on a fucking broad- on your own Broadway.

• 1:03:23Speaker 01

  I know, I know, I know. Like, I really need to, but, but, back to Happy and Sad by Kacey and Musgraves. Sometimes when I feel, Kacey Mus- what did I just say?

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  Sometimes I feel like if I recognize the good, the bad will come. So like, sometimes that's.

• 1:03:39Speaker 03

  The bad's gonna come.

• 1:03:40Speaker 01

  I don't want it to.

• 1:03:41Speaker 03

  But, but, by, by, I, by denying the goods, doesn't mean that it's gonna then, the bad's not gonna come. You can still enjoy the good, just don't attach yourself to the good.

• 1:03:52Speaker 01

  I can't, I can't, I can't.

• 1:03:55Speaker 03

  You can.

• 1:03:56Speaker 01

  Are you on meds?

• 1:03:57Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:03:58Speaker 01

  Wow. Good for you.

• 1:04:01Speaker 03

  I have been though.

• 1:04:02Speaker 01

  I keep getting, you have?

• 1:04:03Speaker 03

  I have been.

• 1:04:04Speaker 01

  Which ones?

• 1:04:06Speaker 01

  Okay, that's okay, that's okay, that's okay. I keep getting nauseous every time I hook up with my girlfriend. Like, it feels like I'm carsick every time we're intimate. We've been together for three months and it's never not happened. Okay.

• 1:04:19Speaker 03

  Is this a girl?

• 1:04:20Speaker 01

  I don't know. I'm good at hiding it, but what does this mean? Is it a sex thing, a her thing? Or do I play for a different team, if you know what I mean?

• 1:04:27Speaker 03

  Yeah. If it's a guy saying this.

• 1:04:31Speaker 01

  Then maybe, yeah.

• 1:04:31Speaker 03

  Honestly, if it's a guy saying this and he's watching your show and writing into your show, I think he might be gay.

• 1:04:41Speaker 03

  Which is funny.

• 1:04:41Speaker 01

  Oh, that was fucking funny. Oh, you should go into comedy next.

• 1:04:49Speaker 01

  I caught my brother watching gay porn. He is super homophobic. I know exactly what this means. And he didn't know I saw him. I don't wanna out him and bring it up in an uncomfortable way, but I can't stay silent when he says nasty shit all the time. How do I be the bigger person handling this? You go to him privately and you say it.

• 1:05:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know what you do.

• 1:05:07Speaker 01

  You say. You're gay?

• 1:05:11Speaker 03

  And that's okay.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  And that's okay. Do you know that reference?

• 1:05:14Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:05:15Speaker 01

  You're bi.

• 1:05:16Speaker 03

  You are gay?

• 1:05:17Speaker 01

  No, you've never seen You're Bi?

• 1:05:19Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:05:19Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 1:05:20Speaker 03

  What is it?

• 1:05:21Speaker 01

  The best video, only, it's only the best video of all time.

• 1:05:23Speaker 03

  Can you feel, oh, I wanna see it.

• 1:05:25Speaker 01

  Have, you've, you've all seen You're Bi, right? Alex, have you seen You're Bi? It's, it's in the, it's like the What Would You Do shows? And-

• 1:05:33Speaker 03

  Oh, I love those shows.

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  And somebody is like, "You're gay," and he's like, "But I like guys and girls." This woman taps him on the shoulder and goes, "You're bi."

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  And it's just like-

• 1:05:45Speaker 03

  Perfect.

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  It's just like one, okay.

• 1:05:47Speaker 03

  Sometimes if I-

• 1:05:48Speaker 01

  Look, look, look, look, look.

• 1:05:56Speaker 00

  You're bi.

• 1:06:00Speaker 01

  So awesome.

• 1:06:01Speaker 03

  Sometimes if I need to cry, I'll watch What Will You Do videos and watch people like sticking up for each other. That like makes me cry the most is watching strangers sticking up and helping other strangers.

• 1:06:14Speaker 01

  When's the last time you cried?

• 1:06:16Speaker 03

  Last night.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 1:06:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  I'm sorry.

• 1:06:19Speaker 03

  No, it's good.

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  I wish I could cry.

• 1:06:22Speaker 03

  It's good.

• 1:06:22Speaker 01

  I wish I could cry.

• 1:06:23Speaker 03

  I love, I love like I'm like accessing tears these days.

• 1:06:26Speaker 01

  What made you cry if you feel comfortable sharing?

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  That's okay. My relationship is just a total double standard these days and I'm getting sick of it. I asked my boyfriend about his celebrity crush and he told me his current was Josh O'Connor, who looks nothing like me. And so I responded with my celebrity crush and he got so immediately jealous and genuinely upset for the rest of the day. That like just happened, but stuff like this happens every other day. At first, it was cute, but it honestly is this toxic behavior.

• 1:06:51Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:06:52Speaker 03

  But like, I've been there. I've been there, brother. It's the worst thing and it's just insecurity.

• 1:06:58Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:06:58Speaker 03

  That's all it is.

• 1:06:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:06:59Speaker 03

  And so, I don't know if you can- Get through it together, but I think if he's being honest, there's hope to get through it, you know?

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  But is he being honest in the fact that he recognizes it's a double standard? The most, my number one pet peeve is when someone like can't realize how hypocritical they're being.

• 1:07:16Speaker 03

  I think, yeah, no, that's just insecurity. I've been there. I actually have been there. A bunch of times and it's the worst, it's like the worst feeling because you're also like hate it. But it's like some weird abandonment.

• 1:07:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:29Speaker 03

  Thing. It's like a threat to your like existence. So I think that's, yeah, sad.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  Okay, last one. Are you ready?

• 1:07:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:36Speaker 01

  I'm tired of feeling like I could constantly do better. No matter what the case is, school, boys, family, et cetera. I have this thing in my head that tells me I can always do more. I don't know if this is relatable, but if you or amazing guest.

• 1:07:55Speaker 01

  I just need five seconds. I need to restart, actually.

• 1:07:58Speaker 03

  I missed that.

• 1:07:59Speaker 01

  It's okay. Just don't worry about it. I'm tired of feeling like I could constantly do better. No matter what the case is, school, boys, family, et cetera. I have this thing in my head that tells me I can always do more. I don't know if this is relatable, but if you or amazing guest. Ever feel like this, how do you guys navigate it and remind yourself to slow down?

• 1:08:19Speaker 03

  My mom actually bought me a gratitude journal.

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  Okay, do you do that?

• 1:08:24Speaker 03

  I do. I haven't been doing it the last few weeks, just with everything with Paradise coming out. So I've been distracted, but.

• 1:08:31Speaker 03

  See that plug?

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  Period. What is the best show on television? And I meant, I mean that.

• 1:08:36Speaker 03

  It is good, isn't it?

• 1:08:37Speaker 01

  No, wait. I didn't want to leave to, I wanted to keep watching. Cause I have the screeners and I'm like, all I can think about and the reason I'm in such a, half the reason I'm in such a good mood is because I'm so fucking pumped to go home and watch Paradise.

• 1:08:53Speaker 03

  It just gets bad.

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  I've never, I've never felt, I haven't felt this way about a show in so long. Like, I'm just gonna plug it for five seconds. Like really and truly, like I literally think it is one of the, it is so hard to have a show. Be not soapy, but have those soapy plot twists and still be so grounded in these like incredible themes. And like, I think it does such a good job of doing that. Like, oh my god, in the last episode, episode four, when she, when Shailene Woodley and Sterling are walking down the road and she's like, "Do not look at those people and do not say hi," but he has that hope and that faith in humanity. So he says hi and then he's able to go back later and have them help her give birth.

• 1:09:36Speaker 01

  And like have that like hope, oh my, I just think it's so moving. I think it is like really and truly the best show on television. I'm so like, so happy you're in it. I'm so happy for you. I think it is seriously the best show on TV.

• 1:09:48Speaker 03

  Aw, thank you, boss.

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  It is so good.

• 1:09:50Speaker 03

  Thank you, man.

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. Anyway, back to this girl.

• 1:09:52Speaker 03

  What was the fucking, what was the question?

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  How do you remind yourself to slow down?

• 1:09:56Speaker 03

  That was it. So my mom actually bought me a little stocking filler. My mom still gives me stockings.

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  Oh, that's cute. You're so Scottish.

• 1:10:01Speaker 03

  Yeah. And she put a little book and then three things. So at the start of the day, I'll meditate and then I'll read this.

• 1:10:11Speaker 01

  How do you meditate?

• 1:10:13Speaker 03

  It's called transcendental meditation.

• 1:10:15Speaker 01

  Okay, and what is that?

• 1:10:16Speaker 03

  You have a mantra and you just sit down and you do the mantra for 20 minutes.

• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  Okay, can we try to do it for like two minutes?

• 1:10:23Speaker 03

  Yeah. Okay, so let's say the mantra is, "Oing."

• 1:10:27Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:10:28Speaker 03

  Okay, and so you just sit, you sit here, and this is all in my brain.

• 1:10:33Speaker 01

  Okay, so I don't say it out loud?

• 1:10:34Speaker 03

  I'll say it out loud, but this is happening in your brain. You go, "Oing, oing."

• 1:10:48Speaker 03

  And then you'll find like some silence and it will maybe be like half a second. And then your brain will set up again. And then you just keep going back to this mantra. And like sometimes I'll be sitting there for 20 minutes and my brain's just going, "Mentor." But you just go back to the mantra every time. So you're not forcing anything. You're also trying not to achieve a certain state. You're just trying to be honest with where you are.

• 1:11:13Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:11:14Speaker 03

  And then when it's like the truth of where you are, then you can, then you can move from the knowing. But if you try and like superficially develop a state, you then deny, because I always feel like negative emotions are always trying to tell you something.

• 1:11:31Speaker 03

  And so if you try and get away from them, you're never gonna learn what you need to learn.

• 1:11:35Speaker 01

  Okay. Well, then that is what we prescribe. Well, Thomas.

• 1:11:40Speaker 03

  Is that it?

• 1:11:41Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, are you having the best time ever?

• 1:11:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, I feel like we're just warming up.

• 1:11:44Speaker 01

  We kind of did that.

• 1:11:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:45Speaker 01

  We kind of did that. How amazing was that? Like, genuinely fabulous. That was so awesome. Thomas, what did we learn today?

• 1:11:53Speaker 03

  What did we learn today? What did you learn today?

• 1:11:54Speaker 01

  I learned. You know, want to know what my real takeaway from this was?

• 1:11:59Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:11:59Speaker 01

  I need to stop being scare. Like, letting the idea that bad things are gonna happen stop me from being happy because they are going to happen. And I need, I, I need to find peace in the fact that they are going to happen. And I need to be able to allow myself to experience joy in some capacity. That is what I took away from this.

• 1:12:24Speaker 03

  Yeah. And also, to add to that, the more that you reminisce on something bad happening, the likelihood it's gonna happen multiplies tenfold.

• 1:12:32Speaker 01

  No, I know. It literally, wait, I can't.

• 1:12:34Speaker 03

  So like, if you're like constantly thinking that's what

• 1:12:36Speaker 01

  No, I know.

• 1:12:37Speaker 03

  You're generating energetically, and so you're attracting that.

• 1:12:40Speaker 01

  I know, I know, I know, I know. What did you learn today?

• 1:12:44Speaker 03

  I learned that, I guess I kind of reaffirmed a lot of things, like reminding myself. It's so nice being able to like speak with you. Um, and just, yeah, reaffirmed. And it's a journey, you know? I'm not sitting from any place of, I guess that's what I learned. I'm speaking as if I've like made it. But you never do. And I'm very much in a process as well. And people are just at different stages in their process and...

• 1:13:15Speaker 01

  But I feel like you're not speaking from like, oh, I made it professionally. You're speaking of like, I feel like I'm at a good place in my life personally and mentally.

• 1:13:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, because then everything else takes care of itself.

• 1:13:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:13:24Speaker 03

  You don't even have to think about.

• 1:13:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:13:26Speaker 03

  It's almost like, like a cheat sheet. You like fall in love with who you are. You accept the good and the bad of who you are. And you can stand with that. Everything else will just take care of itself. Instead of individually trying to fix everything.

• 1:13:40Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 1:13:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. I love you.

• 1:13:43Speaker 01

  And I love you!

• 1:13:46Speaker 02

  I love you. I was so hard.

• 1:13:48Speaker 03

  Thank you so much.

• 1:13:49Speaker 01

  Will you give a little bye pussies?

• 1:13:51Speaker 03

  Bye pussies.

• 1:14:09Speaker 05

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