‘Task’ Is Barreling Toward the End

Chris and Andy talk about the fifth episode of ‘Task,’ discussing Tom and Robbie finally crossing paths, the impressive performances from actors on the periphery, and the loose threads the show still has to tie up in these final two episodes (1:05). Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of ‘The Watch’ and so much more! Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producers: Kaya McMullen and Kai Grady Video Producer: Jon Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 2:00Speaker 04

  I need sports staff to clear the room.

• 2:03Andy Greenwald?

  Stand up and walk now.

• 2:06Chris Ryan?

  Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at theringer.com. And joining me in the studio, my vagrant bird has come home. It's Andy Greenwald. That's right.

• 2:20Andy Greenwald?

  Hold on, I'm just rubbing a little.

• 2:22Chris Ryan?

  A little, just so your heart doesn't explode.

• 2:23Andy Greenwald?

  Cold water.

• 2:24Chris Ryan?

  I don't know if that works.

• 2:25Andy Greenwald?

  You know me, I'm pretty emo.

• 2:26Chris Ryan?

  I cannot wait to get to the bottom with Brad Inglesby at some point about whether that trick works.

• 2:32Andy Greenwald?

  Well, the thing is.

• 2:33Chris Ryan?

  Heart exploding? Is that like a, like a loose term for it or is it?

• 2:37Andy Greenwald?

  Here's why it's a winning strategy. If it ever didn't work.

• 2:40Chris Ryan?

  We wouldn't know.

• 2:41Andy Greenwald?

  We wouldn't know.

• 2:42Chris Ryan?

  We wouldn't know.

• 2:42Andy Greenwald?

  We don't have that testimony.

• 2:44Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 2:45Andy Greenwald?

  It has 100% success rate.

• 2:46Chris Ryan?

  It's on the other side, that information. Uh, Greenwald, great to see you. It's Monday. We're here to talk about Task, episode five.

• 2:52Andy Greenwald?

  To be fair, it's not Monday. We are recording this in advance.

• 2:55Chris Ryan?

  We're doing this a little bit in advance. We've got some personal travel coming up. Um, but we wanted to make sure that we had our recap episode all locked down.

• 3:03Andy Greenwald?

  Task Talk.

• 3:03Chris Ryan?

  And, boy oh boy. This is an interesting one. Broadly speaking.

• 3:09Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 3:10Chris Ryan?

  I, first of all, let me just say I loved this episode.

• 3:12Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, thank God.

• 3:13Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:14Andy Greenwald?

  I was worried you were about to zag on me.

• 3:15Chris Ryan?

  I was just gonna say that broadly speaking, if someone, perhaps wearing a hockey mask and a bulletproof, recreational bulletproof vest were to come up to me.

• 3:26Andy Greenwald?

  The best kind of bulletproof vest.

• 3:28Chris Ryan?

  One of my hitters. And they were like, hey, man.

• 3:31Chris Ryan?

  Like, I thought there was gonna be some, some more gun talk in this episode. I thought we were gonna, it was gonna culminate a little. Well, I think we're.

• 3:39Andy Greenwald?

  Hit you.

• 3:40Chris Ryan?

  I, I think that the way that they did it is essentially like, cutting, they cut it and they'd have a cliffhanger at the most amazing moment at the end of this episode. Which is called Vagrants.

• 3:51Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 3:51Chris Ryan?

  Uh, and which finds Robbie and Tom finally meeting the Ruffalo-Pelfrey, uh, conversation that we've been waiting all season for.

• 3:58Andy Greenwald?

  Just a week ago, Mark Ruffalo told us the characters never cross paths.

• 4:01Chris Ryan?

  But this is basically what I think Inglesby does very well and what this show is on a mission to do, which is to. Put on equal footing and equal standing, the, the human element of the show.

• 4:15Andy Greenwald?

  Yep.

• 4:15Chris Ryan?

  The, what is this character's arc and journey? What are they getting out of this experience? What are you getting out of this experience, watching them? As well as, what if we put Heat and Delco?

• 4:27Andy Greenwald?

  I am interested that you found this episode to be more bark than bite, even a little bit.

• 4:32Chris Ryan?

  No, no, no, no.

• 4:32Andy Greenwald?

  In terms of expectations, in terms of what you were.

• 4:34Chris Ryan?

  People might think that.

• 4:36Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, this is how you stay, this is Vice President Ryan.

• 4:39Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 4:40Andy Greenwald?

  People have been telling you.

• 4:41Chris Ryan?

  I just said, if a guy came up to me and was just like, damn dude, I thought they were gonna get after it. I mean, like, they've been, they're on the way to the thing.

• 4:47Andy Greenwald?

  Tears in his eyes. Sir, sir, I thought they were gonna get after it. In Chris Ryan's America, people don't get after it anymore.

• 4:55Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 4:55Andy Greenwald?

  Um, cause everyone's fine. Uh, I had that feeling more about the previous week because it was all, uh, tying, it was all heading towards the park. And I thought the park was gonna be some big event. I was thrilled with this episode. Mainly because the, the only fireworks I was hyper invested in was Robbie.

• 5:18Chris Ryan?

  Happening right here.

• 5:20Andy Greenwald?

  My heart was exploding.

• 5:21Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 5:21Andy Greenwald?

  With Tom and Robbie crossing paths.

• 5:24Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 5:24Andy Greenwald?

  Um, when we spoke to a bunch of the creatives last week at Vidiot's and Brad said that, you know, he took that very seriously. Uh, you made the joke, I was right behind you with a follow-up joke if necessary, that was he gonna do it in a diner?

• 5:36Chris Ryan?

  I think that was your joke that I stole, but we were, we were reading from each other's play sheets.

• 5:40Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, that's true. I thought that was pretty good.

• 5:41Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 5:41Andy Greenwald?

  That was kind of like the best case scenario of Liam Cohen and Robert Sala. You know what I mean? It's all within the rules. We're all sniffing out each other's scheme.

• 5:52Chris Ryan?

  I'm glad that we're the place to come for, for eight day old coordinator beef. For teams that we do not cheer for.

• 5:59Andy Greenwald?

  You know me for a long time.

• 6:01Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 6:02Andy Greenwald?

  And during the majority of our time knowing each other, you know that I am an absolute heart exploding sicko for our local teams, but generally don't care about sports.

• 6:12Chris Ryan?

  Uh huh.

• 6:13Andy Greenwald?

  This is the year something switched where I have now developed, like, I think you've had this for a while. I now have kind of a cranial itch where I'm like, is there a game on right now? If only I could have a game on.

• 6:24Chris Ryan?

  I can tell.

• 6:24Andy Greenwald?

  Just any kind of game, I would watch it. I have become the target audience for ESPN the Ocho in my quarenta ocho year.

• 6:32Chris Ryan?

  I know, cause you're just like Blake Snell's arm slot analyst. It's crazy.

• 6:36Andy Greenwald?

  That dude really strikes a lot of people out. I turned that game on.

• 6:40Chris Ryan?

  But you're, you're, I don't want to get too distracted. But your relationship to other teams is so pure. It's like a childlike kind of like, damn, he threw that ball far and he caught it.

• 6:49Andy Greenwald?

  Shohei hit it out of the stadium. I turned on game one of Dodgers Reds, like when it was already six, nothing.

• 6:57Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 6:58Andy Greenwald?

  And I was like, this is for the real like seam heads.

• 7:00Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 7:00Andy Greenwald?

  You know what I mean?

• 7:01Chris Ryan?

  You and Greg Dooley.

• 7:02Andy Greenwald?

  Just focus. Anyway, anyway, anyway.

• 7:07Andy Greenwald?

  We were talking about fireworks. We were talking about heart exploding. Let me say.

• 7:10Chris Ryan?

  The Tom Robbie meeting.

• 7:12Andy Greenwald?

  Here's the thing that I admired most about this episode before we get into the specifics. I think that

• 7:19Andy Greenwald?

  it's something that real long distance runners develop. I say real because I run all the time and I don't think I have this, which is a kind of innate sixth sense of the distance left to run. And you're aware of what's in your tank. You're aware of when you can push it. You're aware of when you might need to refuel and you carry that rhythm with you from the starter's gun all the way through the finish line.

• 7:41Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 7:41Andy Greenwald?

  And watching the way this seven season, seven episode season has been constructed, to me is a masterclass in the writing version of that sixth sense. I feel like Brad is pushing all the right buttons at all the right times. And bringing those characters together in an unexpected way early, even though it is kind of late in the, you know, in the, in the scheme of the show, felt both surprising and natural that we are midway through the fifth episode and all the cards are on the table now. Like everybody knows who was doing the robbery. Everybody's in search of.

• 8:14Chris Ryan?

  We're also, everybody is also aware of who's been selling them out. Well, not everybody. We are aware.

• 8:19Andy Greenwald?

  The audience is now aware of it. And it feels so refreshing to be in the hands of a storyteller who knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them and knows when to show the cards, to advance the story that he wants to tell. And there are countless examples of shows that I have feel like at this moment are either too precious with secrets or telegraphing too early that it's going to be something bigger, be a cliffhanger, blow into something else entirely. This feels expert to me and so much so that I had that secondary level of engagement with the show where if Robbie had killed Tom in that moment when he's walking him out of the car, if Tom had taken a shot at Robbie at the end of, at the, at the, at water's edge.

• 9:02Andy Greenwald?

  I would have said, holy shit, but I also would have leaned in and been interested. Like, there was a version in my brain of a show where one of these two leads exited

• 9:10Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 9:11Andy Greenwald?

  the show.

• 9:11Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 9:11Andy Greenwald?

  Because there's so much still there. That is such a sweet spot for the audience to be in, and it's very, very hard to, shout out Liam Cohen, scheme that up from your desk two or three years before you even shoot the thing.

• 9:22Chris Ryan?

  Well, here's the thing, too. It's like, um, maybe if this show was set in, um, Cincinnati and had different actors.

• 9:31Andy Greenwald?

  Greg Dooley would still like it.

• 9:32Chris Ryan?

  I'd be like, yo, like, okay, let's go. Let's, let's, let's like, get to the, let's get to what we're getting to. But because it's Pelfrey and because of the way that he performs, especially over the last two episodes, but very specifically this episode, and two scenes, one, the scene with Aaron, where he finds out that Cliff's been killed, which you have seen in countless crime shows and crime movies, is the main character finds out that the, the walls are closing in, that the only partner he had is gone, that, that he's out of options. And the way that Pelfrey acts that moment, that revelation, because it's not just, my friend died, it's the surrogate brother

• 10:17Chris Ryan?

  that was standing in for the brother that these guys also killed is now gone.

• 10:22Andy Greenwald?

  In the same way.

• 10:23Chris Ryan?

  Yes. And I think that, um, you know, there's this moment where Perry, Perry refers to Robbie as crazy Robbie.

• 10:32Andy Greenwald?

  We've never heard that before.

• 10:34Chris Ryan?

  And that's really all you need to know about the character. You know, I was thinking about like, we don't know, does this guy like hockey? Does he like to go to the movies? Like, I don't really give a shit.

• 10:43Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 10:43Chris Ryan?

  It's like, just having a motorcycle gang president think that he's crazy Robbie.

• 10:49Andy Greenwald?

  Incredible.

• 10:50Chris Ryan?

  Is like, yeah, this guy's caught, maybe, maybe he's. A little like, maybe he's the kind of guy who thinks you can just run away to Canada with a million dollars in fentanyl money and a family that's not really yours.

• 11:02Andy Greenwald?

  And it's such a smart, that's such a smart observation because we meet characters cold and we believe what we are shown.

• 11:09Chris Ryan?

  Or we imprint on them because you and I are both like enough from the area of where he's from, that we're like, oh, I wonder if he did this and I wonder if he does that.

• 11:17Andy Greenwald?

  We kind of know this guy.

• 11:18Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, right.

• 11:18Andy Greenwald?

  What we don't know, and what that one throwaway line from Perry suggests is that maybe Robbie and his brother were, balanced each other out.

• 11:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 11:27Andy Greenwald?

  Maybe Billy was the together one. Maybe he was the planning one who, in some ways, anchored Robbie to a reality. And once he was taken off the board, that Robbie spun out. We don't know any of that.

• 11:37Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 11:38Andy Greenwald?

  What was the, I have another moment of Pelfrey excellence that I, that I feel is related.

• 11:42Chris Ryan?

  Oh, just, um.

• 11:43Andy Greenwald?

  You were thinking of.

• 11:44Chris Ryan?

  I think that, that the scene in the car with Tom and Robbie can go wrong or can become cliche so easily. Like, you, you strive to have a moment where the cop and the robber are, confront one another. And, you know, you have these examples of things like Heat where you're just like, well, how does it get better than that? And I'm not saying that this was as good as the diner scene in Heat. It doesn't really matter. But what they talked about was true to the kind of people that I think that those characters are.

• 12:16Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. And, and in, you know, again, there's the efficiency of some of the more ambitious writing is really shocking and really impressive, that they connected on a level of humanity. They recognize some innate good in the other, which then will be reflected in everything else that happens. I want to go back to, oh, just the other Pelfrey scene I was thinking of similarly was when he meets with Ray's wife.

• 12:38Chris Ryan?

  Shelley.

• 12:39Andy Greenwald?

  Who this episode, I realized, was played by the great Mickey Sumner, daughter of Sting and star of Frances Ha.

• 12:45Chris Ryan?

  She's in Frances Ha, yeah.

• 12:46Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, one of the co-stars. That was, oh, she's great in this, especially like just such a remarkable, memorable face. When, when she, when he says, no, no, no, that's not true. Ray texted Cliff last night and you see Robbie thinking.

• 12:59Chris Ryan?

  The realization.

• 13:00Andy Greenwald?

  In real time. Tell an actor, think on camera. That's really hard. I believe that that's what he's thinking about.

• 13:06Chris Ryan?

  I love that scene. Another like, kind of like. So Shelley is gonna get him to the Dominican drug gang kind of thing? It is the saddest Bruce Springsteen song I've ever seen on screen. Where it's just like, these two people are just fucking out of options. And they are gonna do something so stupid and desperate. Because they just, they do not see another way out. Shelley would probably rather die getting involved in a major fentanyl deal.

• 13:31Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 13:32Chris Ryan?

  Than stay with Ray.

• 13:34Andy Greenwald?

  Or live another day with those goonish sons playing Xbox.

• 13:37Chris Ryan?

  Robbie is out of time, living with Sam eating crispy pancakes and Maeve taking care of all his kids.

• 13:42Andy Greenwald?

  Do you know what's so, one of the more heartbreaking moments, this is a small one, when he walks in to Freddie's dining room? After Freddie has already been like, here's how we're gonna play this. He walks in, those sad eyes are, they're just puppy dog eyes at that point?

• 13:55Chris Ryan?

  He sells himself out.

• 13:56Andy Greenwald?

  He's like, he just walks in with a face that says, will you adopt me? Like, will you please take me in?

• 14:00Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 14:01Andy Greenwald?

  The thing you said about how we would feel about the show if it was in a different place, I think is an important one to address. Because we are obviously the mark for this show. And we love all of the references. There was a crazy one today, oh, oh, someone, some character was taken to Lincoln Hospital. That's a, that's a, that's a, they stitched up my broken wrist real good there.

• 14:24Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 14:26Andy Greenwald?

  And so we, we do love that extra layer of familiarity with the show. And it vibrates on our souls' frequencies. But I think I would love it as much if it was set in Cincinnati, made by a creator from Cincinnati.

• 14:40Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 14:40Andy Greenwald?

  Because there's a.

• 14:41Chris Ryan?

  And shot in Cincinnati.

• 14:42Andy Greenwald?

  Because there, in addition to the, yeah, in addition to the beautiful production and the acting and everything and, and the writing. It has the two things that matter most to me. It has just diamond sharp specificity. The names of the hospitals, the, the order at the diner, whatever it may be. But it also has this generosity of spirit that gives humanity to every character.

• 15:01Chris Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:02Andy Greenwald?

  Every character. And whether it's Shelley in that brief moment.

• 15:06Chris Ryan?

  The two related.

• 15:08Andy Greenwald?

  The similarly like the moment, it's the kind of scene that maybe like if it was a more traditional writer's room, might get kind of steamrolled. There might not be room for it. Someone might not fight for it. Or in the edit, a weaker showrunner might say, yeah, we don't have time for that. But the scene with Sarah, right, is Tom's daughter?

• 15:27Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 15:28Andy Greenwald?

  The scene with Sarah.

• 15:29Chris Ryan?

  Emily. Oh, Sarah, the one, Sarah.

• 15:30Andy Greenwald?

  Sarah is smoking a cigarette and she and Emily have this sort of little bit of a détente.

• 15:38Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 15:38Andy Greenwald?

  Between themselves, a truce.

• 15:39Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 15:40Andy Greenwald?

  And Sarah's telling the story.

• 15:41Chris Ryan?

  To be fair, Emily wasn't really starting anything.

• 15:42Andy Greenwald?

  No, okay. So Sarah reveals something of herself. Is vulnerable in a way. And it's just like, it's like, you know, when you see, we go to a museum and it's an exhibit of an artist and there's like the big, the beautiful canvas, the big painting. And sometimes if it's a retrospective, there's the small sketch that they put in the room next to it or next, you know, or near it. So you can see how it started. That little bit of Sarah's backstory felt like a pencil sketch, but it hung in the same museum, if that makes sense. I found myself riveted by it. I felt there was truth in it. And it opened up my heart to a character that was not, it doesn't enter the stage as someone you're particularly excited to see, frankly.

• 16:18Chris Ryan?

  I've continued to read the Richard Rohr book Falling Upward.

• 16:22Andy Greenwald?

  Seriously?

• 16:23Chris Ryan?

  Which is actually, I find to be, as a not particularly spiritual person, it's been somewhat interesting to read it in the aftermath of my mom's passing and everything. But there's a lot of stuff about storytelling in the book as well. And the usefulness of myth and the usefulness of storytelling to a society or to an individual. And I couldn't, I couldn't help but notice some of the very old, deeply underpinned storytelling mechanisms that Ingallsby is engaging with. Robbie going back to a childhood home in, on the Lehigh

• 17:01Chris Ryan?

  River in the Poconos to have this final reckoning with his past, with his anger, with, you know, his soiled future now. And I think that...

• 17:16Chris Ryan?

  That's my favorite shit is when you've got something that's like, this story could only be told here and in this way. But the story is the story we've been telling ourselves since Odyssey.

• 17:28Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 17:28Chris Ryan?

  It's about a guy trying to get home, you know?

• 17:30Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 17:30Chris Ryan?

  And it's what makes Engels be, I think, a really significant writer in television today is that he, you know, you could, you could spot some loose ends here and there, but like, he's writing from a very deep place, I think, about, about a place that he knows very, very well.

• 17:50Andy Greenwald?

  You can be successful as a screenwriter if you are incredibly good at genre or structure or dialogue or form. And I think you can be successful, maybe with a lower ceiling as a writer, if you are able to passionately advocate for the things that interest you and that you believe in. The real masters of the form, I think, are able to take that fountain of like true inspiration and then funnel it into a shape that is pleasing. That is popular, that is entertaining. That's what, that's what Mad Men was. That's what Breaking Bad was. And that's, I'm not putting task on the level of that, but in terms of the project and the way that Brad approaches the job, I think that is what he is doing here. I think that's what he is capable of.

• 18:35Andy Greenwald?

  We were, this is not in any way intended as like a drive-by or a stray, but it's an interesting contrast with the way we were discussing Alien Earth in that we could tell Noah Hawley's interests, his passions, what moved him in this story. Which, by the way, is a major thing to be able to do, to communicate that.

• 18:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 18:54Andy Greenwald?

  I think ultimately we were mid on the show because the vessel and the, the message were misaligned at times. This is a successful example of them being aligned and it's not easy to do.

• 19:05Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Uh, let's talk about some of the more significant moments of the episode, I think.

• 19:09Andy Greenwald?

  You ever been to Bushkill Falls?

• 19:11Chris Ryan?

  I can't say that I have. I was actually looking at a map. I didn't do.

• 19:15Andy Greenwald?

  Didn't do a lot of Delaware.

• 19:16Chris Ryan?

  A ton of time. Well, I did Delaware River canoeing. But I've never, I don't really think I spent a lot of recreational time, honestly, in the Pokatos, to be completely candid with you.

• 19:27Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 19:27Chris Ryan?

  Um, so that far up Route 100 is, is a little bit of a mystery to the kid.

• 19:34Andy Greenwald?

  I'm a vet. I'm a vet up there.

• 19:35Chris Ryan?

  Okay, tell me about it.

• 19:36Andy Greenwald?

  When I was a kid.

• 19:37Chris Ryan?

  Stroudsburg, and then you keep going north, or what?

• 19:39Andy Greenwald?

  Well, my grandparents were coming from Wilkes-Barre, and so there were a couple summers when I was a kid.

• 19:44Chris Ryan?

  The great steps out on Wilkes-Barre.

• 19:46Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, totally. The Serengeti of Pennsylvania.

• 19:51Andy Greenwald?

  They, uh, there were a couple, like, one or two summers when I was really little, they rented a small house in the summer. Uh-huh. I remember, this is classic only child shit. I remember being there with my parents and my grandparents and my aunt and uncle, and like, my grandparents' friends, Julian and Miriam.

• 20:08Andy Greenwald?

  It was...

• 20:09Chris Ryan?

  Not another kid in sight?

• 20:11Andy Greenwald?

  Not another kid within miles. Within miles, which really explains a lot.

• 20:15Chris Ryan?

  What did you do? Was it like, recite poetry?

• 20:18Andy Greenwald?

  I, I found some, when I was home in Philadelphia recently, I found some photo albums of this time, and I'll say one thing, the adults seemed like they were having a hell of a good time.

• 20:25Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 20:26Andy Greenwald?

  They like, my grandfather traveled with a wet bar.

• 20:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, right.

• 20:30Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, it was like Bloody Mary time or whatever, and then like, I'm sort of off to the side with a transformer or a balloon.

• 20:37Andy Greenwald?

  And like, that's my experience. I remember picking blackberries once. And then actually, my other Bushkill Falls memory that I'll never forget is, I do remember my parents taking me to the falls. It's beautiful. There's a few waterfalls up there. And, um, there's like steps to climb, like, not paved steps, but like wood-framed, cut-out, little like dirt path up to the waterfall. And my parents are not, this, which camera? This will not surprise anyone. Not really the outdoorsy type.

• 21:03Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 21:03Andy Greenwald?

  Um, and I remember, it was unique that we were doing this trip, because I think gin, the martinis were being served back at the rental. But I remember we walked up in such an odd way, and then, and after the waterfall, I said, "Why were we walking with me in the middle?" And my mom was like, "I told your father to do that because in case you fell forward or backwards, you wouldn't die."

• 21:26Chris Ryan?

  Is that how steep it was?

• 21:27Andy Greenwald?

  No. But my takeaway from that wasn't, "Waterfalls are beautiful." It's that I'm one false step away from instant death. Let me get back to my balloon and my fucking Care Bear.

• 21:39Chris Ryan?

  I thought it was a transformer.

• 21:40Andy Greenwald?

  Well, I both. Only child. Contains, I contain multitudes.

• 21:44Chris Ryan?

  Uh, okay, so a couple of big moments from this episode. Razzo Grasso.

• 21:49Andy Greenwald?

  We called it.

• 21:50Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 21:51Andy Greenwald?

  And again, it-

• 21:51Chris Ryan?

  He withheld his sacred life force from Lizzie.

• 21:57Chris Ryan?

  That's a strange love joke.

• 21:59Andy Greenwald?

  I know.

• 22:02Andy Greenwald?

  But, look. People out there, casuals, know your feelings about Lizzie.

• 22:07Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. I'm very, very happy about that.

• 22:11Andy Greenwald?

  That clip of you taking a knee is, at last check, 2.6 million views.

• 22:17Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 22:17Andy Greenwald?

  So people know what you're about, I'm just saying.

• 22:21Chris Ryan?

  He, I was wondering what you thought of the scene between him and Jason, in so much as what you think their dynamic was. Like, you know, I'm sure we'll get, we have two more episodes, so I'm sure we'll get like the backstory on Grasso, why he's doing this.

• 22:37Andy Greenwald?

  Yep.

• 22:38Chris Ryan?

  Are they childhood friends? Was he in the gang? Like, you know, is his dad Perry? I don't know. But like, what, what did you think of their dynamic? Cause I thought Jason being like, "Just remember who the fuck you're talking to."

• 22:51Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 22:51Chris Ryan?

  Obviously indicated that he felt like he had Grasso in kind of a headlock. But Grasso is also like, "Do what I'm telling you to do," you know?

• 22:59Andy Greenwald?

  Yes. His feeling, his behavior suggests that, you know, it's typical for thriller. He's like, "I'm in control of this, actually."

• 23:08Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 23:09Andy Greenwald?

  Which I thought was interesting. He's also, you know, this is not unexpected for the show, complicated enough that I think that his narrative of himself, that he's a good guy, is plausible. Right? That he's just trying to keep, keep everybody's motors running.

• 23:23Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 23:23Andy Greenwald?

  Right? Like, keep, keep, keep everyone alive, keep the system in place.

• 23:28Chris Ryan?

  I don't think we're gonna find out that he's a sociopath.

• 23:30Andy Greenwald?

  No.

• 23:30Chris Ryan?

  I mean, perhaps, but I think it's gonna be something more like, either, "I grew up in this world, or they had something on me."

• 23:37Andy Greenwald?

  I will say, of all of the many characters that we spend time with or get slight POV moments with, Jason, I think, is the least sketched out. I understand his motivations and his brute force. But in terms of, like, even Perry has, has some moments of, certainly not grace, but-

• 23:59Chris Ryan?

  Regret?

• 23:59Andy Greenwald?

  Regret.

• 24:00Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 24:00Andy Greenwald?

  You know, and you see the complicated emotions-

• 24:04Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, we'll get to Perry in a second.

• 24:06Andy Greenwald?

  -swirling inside of him. Jason, so far, is more of a blunt instrument. And that may change as things move forward.

• 24:12Chris Ryan?

  I guess the question remains- I mean, I guess that that makes that moment of Grosso not sleeping with Lizzie like, I guess, thoughtful, you know, or seen a different light because now you know that there's something about him, his interest in Tom's past and the priesthood. There's something about like his kind of sweetness is, it doesn't seem like an act. It seems like maybe that's the person he wants to be and he knows he's not.

• 24:39Andy Greenwald?

  He is attempting to connect himself to Tom's story in the sense that he also feels like he's a fallen angel, right? That like he has, that's the vibe I get cumulatively from his behavior with Tom and in light of what happens in this episode.

• 24:54Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 24:55Andy Greenwald?

  That he's trying to sketch out a narrative where both he and Tom tried to stay to something pure, but then like had to get down in the muck. It seems like he's a bit further down in the muck.

• 25:04Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 25:05Andy Greenwald?

  Than Tom is. But I think that's what he, that feels like his yearning.

• 25:10Chris Ryan?

  Head fake with McGinty then from the last episode? Or do you feel like she could still be?

• 25:15Andy Greenwald?

  I think she, I think, yeah, I don't think it's a head fake. I feel, I feel like we weren't wrong to underline the moment when Grosso says, some lady interviewed me.

• 25:25Chris Ryan?

  Some lady interviewed me and then after Tom leaves and says, I think I have a problem on the task force and she's like, no, you don't. Then she calls presumably this guy who comes in that she then mocks for not wearing a sufficiently summer casual outfit.

• 25:39Andy Greenwald?

  Glad you mentioned that. One of the best moments in the episode. There's still room for lols here at Task HQ. Thank God.

• 25:45Chris Ryan?

  Plimpton's got him, got him.

• 25:47Andy Greenwald?

  She's dishing him.

• 25:48Chris Ryan?

  Firing out like she, the, I'm an emotional eater line was great. Her going into that Starbucks bagel, like that sad kind of like.

• 25:57Andy Greenwald?

  Her mourning, yeah.

• 25:59Chris Ryan?

  But I presume now that the phone call that she made was to somebody in her office to interrogate the, to revet the people on the task force. And then now something with Grosso is pinged. That doesn't stop her from then spending the day essentially with him after picking him up.

• 26:17Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 26:18Chris Ryan?

  You know? And she never seems, within the car, she doesn't seem to indicate any knowledge of Grosso's duplicity.

• 26:25Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, like just on a fundamental level, what you're saying, this is also what I mean about why I'm so engaged by it. It's the humanity. Like this is a show with a body count, but that respects the severity and finality of death. Like people are double crossing each other, but for the most part, nobody wants. Nobody wants to trail of corpses.

• 26:44Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 26:45Andy Greenwald?

  And it allows the deaths when they occur to.

• 26:49Chris Ryan?

  And think about like, and they're all, all these things are connected to each other within a really, going back to my, my point about like, this is an old story. This is about a guy avenging his brother's death. And the brother and this girl Erin had like a love that was.

• 27:05Andy Greenwald?

  So pure.

• 27:06Chris Ryan?

  But it was, you know, it was, it was doomed. It was a doomed love affair like that, like Jason is psychotic and is gonna get violent. And that's, you know, like, this is the ripple out from those, those original sins in some way.

• 27:19Andy Greenwald?

  What, how much of this would you do for me?

• 27:22Chris Ryan?

  I was gonna ask you a question.

• 27:23Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 27:24Chris Ryan?

  Later in the episode, earlier in the episode, rather, I believe, um, when Perry visits Maeve.

• 27:30Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. He's happy to see her.

• 27:32Chris Ryan?

  Do you have a picture of me on your fridge?

• 27:34Andy Greenwald?

  Thank you. I wanted to talk about this.

• 27:38Andy Greenwald?

  Photographs are doing a lot of heavy lifting on the show. I'm not mad at it. I'm not mad at it. It's really hard to write stuff that connects dots or to give people something to do when they're feeling.

• 27:48Chris Ryan?

  Sticking right out there on the fridge.

• 27:50Andy Greenwald?

  Just tucking out, it's like, it's like Robbie and Cliff, best boys for revs. Robbie Robin with Cliff.

• 27:58Chris Ryan?

  I have like, there's one picture of me currently up in my house.

• 28:02Andy Greenwald?

  Oh.

• 28:02Chris Ryan?

  The entire house. It's a Polaroid of me in the Criterion closet.

• 28:06Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, that's cool.

• 28:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 28:07Andy Greenwald?

  How often do you put it back up after Phoebe takes it down?

• 28:10Chris Ryan?

  She doesn't take it down. She just has a different aesthetic.

• 28:13Andy Greenwald?

  The one that doesn't involve your face?

• 28:15Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I don't, I guess I've just never really thought about putting pictures of myself up.

• 28:19Andy Greenwald?

  Here's the, here's the biggest follow up.

• 28:22Chris Ryan?

  More pictures of you, to be candid.

• 28:23Andy Greenwald?

  That's what I was gonna say. How many pictures of me are up? I feel like Phoebe wouldn't mind if there's a picture of me.

• 28:27Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I think if I had like me and the boys, but it would be like, I don't know if I'd put it on the fridge.

• 28:32Andy Greenwald?

  Right. Inevitably, there would be like, you know, a, a, a takeout menu from the, the fuss, the fuck cafe or something blocking my face.

• 28:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 28:41Andy Greenwald?

  Probably. The way you get away with, it's all right. I like that restaurant. I think, um, the way you get away with this is just a pro tip, putting up pictures of yourself in your home is you have children and then you frame the ones that you're also in.

• 28:56Chris Ryan?

  Gotcha.

• 28:57Andy Greenwald?

  And then everyone's like, look at this picture of these kids, but you're in the background like, you know, lampen.

• 29:01Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 29:02Andy Greenwald?

  Ross and Nova style.

• 29:03Chris Ryan?

  I'll, I'll make sure I have kids so I can do that.

• 29:05Andy Greenwald?

  You can have a picture of my kids. Nothing weird about that. I've got some cute ones.

• 29:10Andy Greenwald?

  They're very photogenic.

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• 31:40Chris Ryan?

  We covered Shelley and Robbie scene. I get, I get the plan. So talk me through this. Freddy?

• 31:46Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 31:47Chris Ryan?

  Is going to essentially set Robbie up and take double the sort of commission on that? Or is he getting?

• 31:57Andy Greenwald?

  Hundred percent of it, I believe.

• 31:59Chris Ryan?

  Of the fentanyl?

• 32:00Andy Greenwald?

  Sure.

• 32:01Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 32:01Andy Greenwald?

  Right?

• 32:02Chris Ryan?

  I'm sure it'll get explained a little bit more clearly. I mean, I grasp what's happening, even if I don't understand the details. When Jason calls Perrin, he's like, he had me over in a, over a barrel. He needed double. I was just a double of the money that you get for selling the fentanyl, I guess.

• 32:17Andy Greenwald?

  Or double the percentage they'd already agreed to.

• 32:19Chris Ryan?

  Did they agree to anything?

• 32:20Andy Greenwald?

  I thought they were going fifth, remember in the whole?

• 32:23Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, cuz he's, that's right. Cuz he's like, I either piss on you or you agree to my price. And those guys were like, make a fair point.

• 32:29Andy Greenwald?

  One, one point I would like to make that it is, it is uncanny that both Task and Dope Thief built to a collision between more factions than each faction realizes in a quarry. Like that, that, that is bizarre.

• 32:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 32:46Andy Greenwald?

  I would also say that the differences in the execution of those scenes also speaks to the essential difference between the shows. Why one, we were taken quite seriously and one we thought had some good performances.

• 32:55Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 32:55Andy Greenwald?

  Because did you, I don't think you watched enough.

• 32:57Chris Ryan?

  I watched a couple of quarries, yeah.

• 32:59Andy Greenwald?

  No, not to show quarry. I mean, Dope Thief.

• 33:01Chris Ryan?

  Oh, sorry. Yeah, my bad.

• 33:03Andy Greenwald?

  The dope thief scene in a quarry where a character who drives them to the quarry decide is like, takes out like a high-powered military-grade rifle and just starts screaming and like shooting people. It's a different attitude towards the vagaries of life.

• 33:16Chris Ryan?

  I think also the, uh, the function of the settings that we revisit often.

• 33:25Chris Ryan?

  I found, you know, Erin's death, for instance, in this episode.

• 33:28Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 33:28Chris Ryan?

  Margarita Le Viva's character. On one hand, I would say that her character was not served particularly well this this season. And I think a lot of her as a performer. No, I mean, on the show. I mean, I just like she kind of is like, I am in a flashback. I am in a kitchen. I'm in a couple of scenes, but like ultimately like what Erin. Erin functions like a photograph on the wall to like move the story along.

• 33:54Andy Greenwald?

  Exactly right. And it is it is the benefit of HBO and of a talented team that you get the A plus version of a C plus role.

• 34:04Andy Greenwald?

  I we and I both think she's a great, great actor. And so she brought a lot to it, which is kind of what you need to elevate it when there's not a lot of real estate for screen time.

• 34:11Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 34:12Andy Greenwald?

  But there was a moment when and that whole scene was shot beautifully. And Jeremiah Zagar was back behind the camera for this episode. And I thought that whole scene with the the kids listening to the indie rock band Honey.

• 34:24Chris Ryan?

  Oh, I was already aware of what that was.

• 34:25Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, with smoke like that was just beautifully shot and realized and disturbing and creepy and all that. And effective in the sense that there was a moment when I feel like there should be a term for this that we should come up with. It's like what I was saying before about. Your heart's in your throat and you're like, a character could die here. Like suddenly everything is in play.

• 34:44Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 34:45Andy Greenwald?

  The best shows bring you to that point where you're questioning your own experience and watching things for many, many years. And so there was a moment when he was chasing her where I was like, she could come up with a rock and win. But of course she doesn't. But that feeling engages you in a different way as an audience member.

• 35:01Chris Ryan?

  And I think this is just a very, very, very soundly.

• 35:07Chris Ryan?

  Constructed show in terms of its its theme, in terms of its themes and this episode specifically. Tom does this speech about a bird, a vagrant bird that gets kind of lost, but can always get back home. Obviously Robbie leads all of these factions to a childhood escape. Erin, when she's.

• 35:28Chris Ryan?

  On the, right when her life is basically falling apart, notices this kind of like, like a really nuanced little phenomenon that's essentially it's vape smoke, but it looks like clouds are coming down into this, like to this water bed area. Water bed, what the fuck am I talking about? Like, is it a lake or is it, is that the quarry?

• 35:47Andy Greenwald?

  I thought it was the quarry.

• 35:48Chris Ryan?

  In any case.

• 35:50Andy Greenwald?

  Not the show quarry, which is very good.

• 35:52Chris Ryan?

  Or the show Dope Thief, no. My point is that obviously Erin is like having a reverie about like when she used to come here with Billy.

• 35:58Andy Greenwald?

  Sure.

• 35:58Chris Ryan?

  And maybe even to her childhood when she used to be so carefree that she would vape at the quarry.

• 36:03Andy Greenwald?

  Yep.

• 36:03Chris Ryan?

  You know, or whatever the kids did back in the 90s, you know?

• 36:05Andy Greenwald?

  And listen to indie rock.

• 36:07Chris Ryan?

  And that's where she dies and she's swimming to get to this time in her life that she remembers.

• 36:14Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 36:15Chris Ryan?

  And Perry stops her, obviously, but I, I thought like you see these like recurrences. It's not just doubling where it's like, oh, Tom and Robbie are going through similar experiences. It's like, this is about people trying to get back to a place that maybe doesn't exist anymore.

• 36:28Andy Greenwald?

  And, and people trapped in the same fishbowl they've always been in and not understanding why the water is so cloudy and murky now.

• 36:34Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 36:34Andy Greenwald?

  It was what we were talking about the other week about the spaces they live in, like even Ray and Shelley's house. In a vacuum, looks like a perfectly nice old house, you know, with a nice backyard and, but what has it become? What has these, what have these towns become? What have we filled them with?

• 36:47Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 36:47Andy Greenwald?

  What has become of all of us? That was a nice, uh, um, recall to that.

• 36:53Chris Ryan?

  I thought that the Perry and Maeve scene was great. I, we've talked about Perry referring, uh, to, um, Robbie as crazy Robbie. Uh, you might think, I might, I might've thought in a different world that like the Sam plotline was a little anticlimactic, just like, oh, and then she takes him.

• 37:17Andy Greenwald?

  There might be more pages to turn.

• 37:18Chris Ryan?

  There might be more pages to turn, but I thought also it's like, yeah, that's when, that's when Maeve decides enough's enough. Is when fucking Perry shows up.

• 37:25Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 37:25Chris Ryan?

  And this kid is 10 feet away.

• 37:27Andy Greenwald?

  And I think that if you could map this out, if you took the Maeve story, um, separated it out, I think it passes the plausibility test, which we don't put on shows that are excellent.

• 37:38Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 37:38Andy Greenwald?

  That's, that's anti-art, honestly, but if you did want to watch it that way, I think what she did with Sam initially, you know, trying to bring him back and then taking him back for reasons and then finally saying enough's enough, that makes sense.

• 37:50Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 37:51Andy Greenwald?

  Um, we should shout out Jamie McShane is the actor who plays Perry.

• 37:54Chris Ryan?

  Great job.

• 37:55Andy Greenwald?

  Um, just.

• 37:57Andy Greenwald?

  That someone who, you know, I go to his Wikipedia page and I'm like, I have definitely seen this man in a number of television shows and movies. He was in Sons of Anarchy, Bloodline, Avengers. He works. He's a working actor.

• 38:10Chris Ryan?

  Avengers, like the Marvel movie?

• 38:11Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 38:12Chris Ryan?

  Who was he in that?

• 38:12Andy Greenwald?

  He was in, I have no idea. He was in Thor and the Avengers.

• 38:16Chris Ryan?

  Oh.

• 38:17Andy Greenwald?

  I don't think he was Thor, but I'll check.

• 38:19Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 38:21Andy Greenwald?

  He, it reminds me of the best of UK television where

• 38:26Chris Ryan?

  This whole show is, he's got that.

• 38:28Andy Greenwald?

  There's a stable of incredible actors given opportunities to show what they've always been able to do. So you have that, that small sense of familiarity, but then you get surprised.

• 38:36Chris Ryan?

  What's the name of, of Perry's on again, off again girlfriend?

• 38:39Andy Greenwald?

  He's Agent Jackson.

• 38:40Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 38:41Andy Greenwald?

  You remember him from Thor?

• 38:42Chris Ryan?

  Uh, no, I really, I gotta say, I seriously do not. What's the name of, uh?

• 38:48Andy Greenwald?

  I don't remember. I know who you're asking.

• 38:49Chris Ryan?

  She's good.

• 38:50Andy Greenwald?

  Also good.

• 38:51Chris Ryan?

  And that's another example of like, just somebody doing a very good job in a very small role. And I'm sorry, I don't know your name.

• 38:58Chris Ryan?

  What else was there from this episode that I wanted to discuss?

• 39:00Andy Greenwald?

  I want to talk about the whole, um, the architecture and the, the emotion of the, the Tom and Robbie stuff.

• 39:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 39:07Andy Greenwald?

  I loved Ruffalo playing old and broken down. I loved the Pepsi can on the back of the toilet. And then that coming back around with Robbie being like, nobody pisses like that.

• 39:19Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 39:20Andy Greenwald?

  It's pretty funny. Um, I thought the, uh, it earned it, right? Like it was worth it. That kind of collision with other, everyone calling and wondering, and then that feeling of, there's just a kind of, there's a feeling of freedom. I think when you feel a show say, fuck it, we're, we're, we're here, we're at the point where this needs to happen. That is also something that I would reference Breaking Bad at being expert at, like it, Breaking Bad was never afraid of turning the page to the, when, when you've gotten to the end of the, the sentence.

• 39:51Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 39:53Andy Greenwald?

  And I thought that was really compelling. I thought, um, we got some more backstory about Tom and his wife in an interesting way. We got a shout out to another local hospital, Bryn Mawr Hospital. You ever spend time there? It's a nice one.

• 40:04Chris Ryan?

  I thought, um,

• 40:08Chris Ryan?

  There's a, I think when you watch cops and robber shows, you're assuming that what you're gonna see is Popeye Doyle, or Vincent Hanna, or the guy who chases guys. And Tom's not that. Now, whether Tom got put on this task force by Kathleen

• 40:26Andy Greenwald?

  To lose.

• 40:27Chris Ryan?

  To lose, or whether nobody really cared about this case, or what are we doing with Tom in the first place? There was no world where Tom was like, I'm actually incredible at evasive driving, and I'm gonna like, you know, there's nothing he's gonna do. He's got a gun to his back, and he wants to call his kids.

• 40:42Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 40:43Chris Ryan?

  And that was like a really, really, really beautiful moment, where he's just like, he's not yelling, there's no ornate dialogue, there's no, he's not cursing him out. He's just like, man, let me call my kids.

• 40:55Andy Greenwald?

  But this is also why the specificity matters, because it may not resonate to anyone who didn't grow up in the area, but when Robbie opens his license, Tom's license, and he says, Tom Brandis from Springfield, just like a guy.

• 41:08Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 41:08Andy Greenwald?

  Lives near a mall.

• 41:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 41:10Andy Greenwald?

  Just normal.

• 41:10Chris Ryan?

  Likes birds.

• 41:11Andy Greenwald?

  Loves birds.

• 41:12Chris Ryan?

  Um.

• 41:13Andy Greenwald?

  Loves birds. Did you think that Perry's strategy of pulling, popping his collar was an effective way of hiding the scarring and clawing?

• 41:22Chris Ryan?

  Well, I think what it does is it, first of all, this is such a unique and beautiful place to stage what will be the climax of the series, one would assume.

• 41:29Andy Greenwald?

  I think, my sense is that we're gonna have fireworks, and then we're gonna have a long emotional denouement in the finale.

• 41:35Chris Ryan?

  I think there are a lot of fireworks still to come, too.

• 41:38Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, I think, I think it's six.

• 41:38Chris Ryan?

  Because everybody who's kind of arriving at the river, gathering at the river, if you will, there's all these different factions within factions, right? There's the Dark Hearts divided, because unbeknownst to Jason.

• 41:53Andy Greenwald?

  So far unbeknownst, yeah.

• 41:54Chris Ryan?

  Perry has killed Jason's wife, or girlfriend, I don't know the state of there.

• 41:58Andy Greenwald?

  They have a family together. Common law wife.

• 42:00Chris Ryan?

  Yes, right, partners.

• 42:02Andy Greenwald?

  Just two crazy kids.

• 42:04Chris Ryan?

  And...

• 42:06Chris Ryan?

  Unbeknownst to some of the people on the task force, the task force is divided because Grasso is actually working on behalf of the Dark Hearts. And then you've got Robbie, who I imagine wanted this to take place where it's taking place for reasons beyond The Odyssey and wants it to be because like he knows the terrain.

• 42:27Andy Greenwald?

  He knows something.

• 42:28Chris Ryan?

  Maybe has hid something somewhere, whatever it is. So I love this image of these people kind of moving down the riverbanks and converging on Robbie, but I think that there's a lot of story left because not only are you gonna get whatever happens in the woods here, you're gonna have to have an accounting of everybody's divided allegiances.

• 42:50Andy Greenwald?

  And who's gonna come out of the woods and in what state will they be in?

• 42:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 42:54Andy Greenwald?

  How do they feel about Lyme disease? Because that is a real issue there.

• 42:58Chris Ryan?

  Robbie felled by poison oak.

• 43:02Andy Greenwald?

  Just scratching the whole finale. I love that part in the car when he says.

• 43:08Chris Ryan?

  Oh, and also like Freddy's, Freddy's out there somewhere.

• 43:10Andy Greenwald?

  Freddy's rolling.

• 43:11Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. I don't know that he's going to the Poconos, but I mean, he's got a vested interest.

• 43:15Andy Greenwald?

  He had a bad experience in Lancaster.

• 43:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 43:17Andy Greenwald?

  I've kidnapped the world's most depressing human.

• 43:19Chris Ryan?

  So funny.

• 43:20Andy Greenwald?

  Great line.

• 43:21Chris Ryan?

  I fucking like you, but I don't like you enough to let you fuck up my plan.

• 43:25Andy Greenwald?

  Also, never get serious satellite radio, I guess.

• 43:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, that was a really good little Chekhov's.

• 43:33Andy Greenwald?

  Radio?

• 43:34Chris Ryan?

  Outlaw country shout out there.

• 43:36Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 43:37Chris Ryan?

  Where it's like, I was like, damn, serious, thrown down five bucks to get in the show and then it winds up being like, it's a satellite, so you can ping them, you know?

• 43:45Andy Greenwald?

  Did you like the parallel? You spoke so well about the, what Aaron was seeing through the haze and it's mirrored by where Tom ends up on the other side of his, his woods walk. When Robbie says, walk about a mile, you'll see it, it's beautiful.

• 44:00Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 44:01Andy Greenwald?

  And what he sees is normal America, like families and just the world that both of them have left a long time ago.

• 44:08Chris Ryan?

  I've, I've, I've found it interesting that this show is driving towards the woods. Like most of the action of the last two episodes, but specifically this one is happening in a kind of pastoral setting. I don't know what it means necessarily, but it's not a Philly show anymore, you know? It's kind of.

• 44:29Andy Greenwald?

  No.

• 44:30Chris Ryan?

  This weird like, these, these. These animals kind of almost from like, like this city coming into the woods to like be wild.

• 44:38Andy Greenwald?

  But let, maybe that just goes back to it's not the original sin, but it's the original um smarts of Brad Engelsby and his writing that he's done for HBO. It's, you could say that Mayor of Easttown and Task are Philly shows, but they're not. They're Delaware County shows, they're Pennsylvania shows. That is a much different thing than in urban setting. And I think you can tell a certain kind of phoniness.

• 45:00Chris Ryan?

  Sally Richardson Whitfield was very funny when we asked her like if she had, you know, what were some of the things that she thought were hallmarks of, and she was like, I never need to see the woods again. Like I've seen so many different woods to set our like little scenes and like.

• 45:14Andy Greenwald?

  And I think we could, and we, I'm sure we yearn for programming that is super Philly coded, because I think, again, I feel bad doing strays like this, but like Dope Thief was supposedly set in Philadelphia, but was deeply un-Philadelphia. It was Philadelphia in the way that a lot of other mass entertainment has been where it's just like Brooklyn South a little bit.

• 45:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 45:38Andy Greenwald?

  I'm not just talking the accents, I'm just talking about like specific things about that make it a unique place. And so the fact that this show is dug into such an unexpected patch of ground makes him, I, I think makes a resonant to people who, who aren't from there.

• 45:54Chris Ryan?

  Is it worth making predictions? Is it worth saying like, oh, what do you think happens out there? I, you know,

• 46:02Chris Ryan?

  I hesitate to mention this, but in the teaser that had the Guns N' Roses song, you can, you can see some things about this shootout.

• 46:10Andy Greenwald?

  Look at you.

• 46:11Chris Ryan?

  I know. I wish I didn't.

• 46:12Andy Greenwald?

  Did you go back?

• 46:13Chris Ryan?

  Oh, I watched it 300 times. So like I, I just remember.

• 46:18Andy Greenwald?

  The beauty of my life is I remember nothing. I don't even remember when we started this podcast. It's all gone.

• 46:24Chris Ryan?

  Yesterday.

• 46:24Andy Greenwald?

  It's possible.

• 46:25Chris Ryan?

  Um, anything else?

• 46:26Andy Greenwald?

  In a way, I'm always doing this podcast, don't you think?

• 46:28Chris Ryan?

  Sure. Sure.

• 46:30Andy Greenwald?

  Not in a bad way. Anything else about this? No, this was great. Great episode. Very excited for two more.

• 46:34Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 46:36Andy Greenwald?

  It's fun.

• 46:37Chris Ryan?

  Okay, fun is one way to describe it.

• 46:39Andy Greenwald?

  It's fun to have a show that is-

• 46:40Chris Ryan?

  It's emotionally trenchant.

• 46:41Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, but it's fun to have a show that is this, has this much depth and engagement.

• 46:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 46:46Andy Greenwald?

  And I look forward to more of it. I don't know, what do you want me to say?

• 46:49Chris Ryan?

  You got the job.

• 46:51Andy Greenwald?

  Did I get the job? Like, but also, I feel like this is, this isn't the whole podcast, right? You're gonna do a little something else?

• 46:56Chris Ryan?

  I don't think so.

• 46:57Andy Greenwald?

  You're not gonna do anything else?

• 46:58Chris Ryan?

  Well, I mean, it's like, you know, I don't, we'll see.

• 47:00Andy Greenwald?

  Just plug and play?

• 47:01Chris Ryan?

  I wanna, I wanna have this be like the chunk, and then if something else, what am I gonna do? Just be like, you know, I really, the House of Guinness really turned a quarter there on episode four.

• 47:10Andy Greenwald?

  Comment on Mike Johnson's like 4D gamesmanship to keep the government, to reopen the government? That's gonna happen this weekend or something?

• 47:16Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Thanks for joining me. Maybe there is more to this podcast, I don't know. And-

• 47:21Andy Greenwald?

  It's exciting to think about.

• 47:22Chris Ryan?

  I'll be back on Thursday, maybe you will too.

• 47:24Andy Greenwald?

  Possible.

• 47:33Speaker 04

  This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. Fall is here and Whole Foods Market has everything you need for cozy meals, seasonal treats, and easy entertaining. Elevate your hearty dishes with tasty bone-in beef short ribs or New York strip steaks with no added growth hormones or antibiotics. And as the fall evenings draw in, why not get ahead of cold season with immunity shots, herbal teas, lozenges, and supplements? Make sure you look for sales throughout the month. Shop fall flavors with higher standards at Whole Foods Market.

• 48:01Speaker 09

  This is US Bank's Cozy Cash Formations with your chief financial planner, Fernando Mendoza.

• 48:08Speaker 10

  You are worthy of financial security. Budgeting is not restriction, it's freedom. You are smart, you are capable, you are giving your money a purpose. You are learning the language of saving, of growing. Now, streaming.

• 48:29Speaker 09

  Member FDIC, copyright 2026 US Bank.