How Much Higher Can ‘Slow Horses’ Climb? Plus, ‘Landman’ S2 and ‘Jay Kelly’ Trailers.

Chris and Andy talk about the second episode of ‘Slow Horses’ Season 5 and whether or not Jackson Lamb’s lack of character progression is holding back the show (4:14). Then, they react to the most recent trailers for ‘Landman’ S2 and ‘Jay Kelly’ (15:35). Along the way, they discuss TV executive Peter Friedlander’s arrival at Amazon MGM Studios, what it means for Prime Video’s future offerings, and the overall state of streaming programming (24:14). Later, they check in on what books they’ve been reading and reveal their travel content preferences ahead of Andy’s upcoming trip to London (43:25). Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of ‘The Watch’ and so much more! Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producers: Kaya McMullen and Kai Grady Video Producer: Jon Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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• 0:00Speaker 00

  I'm pro-football Hall of Famer Brian Dawkins, and I lived for a long time with something I did not know the name of: major depressive disorder. I carried sadness and anger because I thought I could handle it alone, but I couldn't. Now I want to make sure others know that that support is out there. If you're experiencing similar symptoms, talk to a healthcare professional. Visit MDDAllies.com to watch my story.

• 0:25Speaker 01

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• 2:22Speaker 03

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• 2:31Speaker 04

  I need sports staff to clear the room. Stand up and walk now.

• 2:36Chris Ryan?

  Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at theringer.com. And joining me in the studio, adhering to military grooming standards, it's Andy Greenwald.

• 2:50Andy Greenwald?

  We're back.

• 2:50Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 2:51Andy Greenwald?

  We're finally welcome back in the Pentagon.

• 2:53Chris Ryan?

  Hex F back, Landman back, Clooney back. Let's go.

• 2:57Andy Greenwald?

  Huh. Do you think you can find the common denominator between those three things?

• 3:01Chris Ryan?

  Uh.

• 3:01Andy Greenwald?

  Men, man, Y chromosomes.

• 3:05Chris Ryan?

  It's great to see you.

• 3:06Andy Greenwald?

  Chins?

• 3:06Chris Ryan?

  We're recording this on Wednesday, for release on Thursday.

• 3:09Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 3:09Chris Ryan?

  Uh, it'll be our last session that we're doing in the studio for a little while.

• 3:14Andy Greenwald?

  Well, in an American studio.

• 3:15Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. You want to talk about it?

• 3:18Andy Greenwald?

  Well, no, I just, you know, I am getting back on a plane. I'm going back to London.

• 3:23Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 3:23Andy Greenwald?

  For reasons that are secret.

• 3:25Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, well, if you watch Slow Horses, then you'll know.

• 3:28Andy Greenwald?

  Perhaps Chamber of Secrets?

• 3:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:30Andy Greenwald?

  Who can say?

• 3:30Chris Ryan?

  Who can say?

• 3:31Andy Greenwald?

  Who can say? But I'm looking forward to getting back into the, uh, into the vibrant Instagram food scene.

• 3:37Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 3:37Andy Greenwald?

  Over there. All these months of just grinding tape of Topjaw, James Dimitri, like, I'm finally gonna be able to weigh in on the subjects that matter the most to me.

• 3:44Chris Ryan?

  What is the perfect pint? What's your pint intake these days?

• 3:49Andy Greenwald?

  Currently?

• 3:49Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 3:50Andy Greenwald?

  A robust zero.

• 3:51Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 3:51Andy Greenwald?

  A zero pint strategy is what has been getting me through these weeks.

• 3:55Chris Ryan?

  Do you think that you will continue to, like, be?

• 3:56Andy Greenwald?

  To embrace sobriety?

• 3:59Andy Greenwald?

  I don't think that's possible there. You know, here's the thing about me. Like Andrew Yang, I believe in no labels. And I- Sometimes, sometimes I'm beer curious.

• 4:10Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 4:11Andy Greenwald?

  And sometimes I'm sober facing, you know?

• 4:13Chris Ryan?

  But you also love an oaky shard, don't you?

• 4:16Andy Greenwald?

  Not oaky, no, no, no, crisp, minerally.

• 4:19Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 4:19Andy Greenwald?

  Acidic.

• 4:20Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 4:21Andy Greenwald?

  It's gonna be an interesting adventure and I'm excited you'll be over there with me because you have been there through thick and thin with me.

• 4:28Chris Ryan?

  I'm not going over there with you for the entire time.

• 4:30Andy Greenwald?

  No, no, I'm gonna see you there at some point.

• 4:31Chris Ryan?

  I'm going to be on vacation over there at some point.

• 4:33Andy Greenwald?

  I did pitch you on coming with me the entire time. I think I do have space in the fly. But you've seen me, you know, be quite abstemious and on my best behavior. And then there was a time over the summer when we'd both been doing family stuff. And you saw me approach a pint at Bad Brother, the way Winnie the Pooh approaches a pot of honey.

• 4:53Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 4:53Andy Greenwald?

  In that you didn't see my face until the bottom of it was showing.

• 4:57Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, and then you took a 45 minute walk.

• 4:59Andy Greenwald?

  Just to clear my head. It was a nice walk.

• 5:02Chris Ryan?

  It was.

• 5:03Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, so that'll be fine. But I do, we will still be doing the podcast. But I'll miss your musk. It'll be different.

• 5:09Chris Ryan?

  Maybe you might miss a couple at bats. We may pinch hit for you here and there if schedules.

• 5:14Andy Greenwald?

  Is that a cricket reference?

• 5:16Chris Ryan?

  No, baseball.

• 5:17Andy Greenwald?

  You thought about it.

• 5:18Chris Ryan?

  You're gonna miss Red October.

• 5:19Andy Greenwald?

  Listen, oh my god.

• 5:20Chris Ryan?

  You're gonna miss Eagles crisis talks.

• 5:23Andy Greenwald?

  You've explained VPNs to me enough that I think I might be able to watch some Eagles games, but I don't think I'm gonna see.

• 5:30Chris Ryan?

  I know exactly what's gonna happen. You're gonna get there, you're gonna be texting me about like, how do I make this work? Then you're gonna say $80, I'm not doing this. And then you're gonna just be miserable watching sporting events on Gamecast.

• 5:42Andy Greenwald?

  No, I'm, first of all, I am the king of watching sporting events on Gamecast. Refresh, refresh, refresh. And then sometimes it goes back a few places and you can see that Alec Bohm struck out or whatever. I'm willing to pay the money this time.

• 5:55Chris Ryan?

  It's big of you.

• 5:56Andy Greenwald?

  Thank you. Well, I'm saving all that money on pints.

• 5:58Chris Ryan?

  That's true.

• 6:00Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, we'll see about that. And, but I am wrestling with, there's two truths. One, because of the time difference, I think I will not see a single pitch of Phillies playoff baseball. Ergo. They are going to win the World Series. I have no doubt.

• 6:16Chris Ryan?

  Um, we'll see. We'll see. I think it's a wide open National League.

• 6:20Andy Greenwald?

  I don't think the Reds are part of that open conversation.

• 6:22Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, but I think it's just, it's gonna be just a Daffy playoffs, I think. I really do. Um, I, I will be here for you, for all your VPN assistance needs. Not that I use it, because I'm just right here. I got all my...

• 6:37Andy Greenwald?

  You're very public. You use a very public network whenever possible.

• 6:40Chris Ryan?

  Kind of chaos menu today. Um, we don't really have, I don't really feel like the second episode of Slow Horses you did watch.

• 6:48Andy Greenwald?

  I did.

• 6:48Chris Ryan?

  And do you continue to love this season?

• 6:52Andy Greenwald?

  Uh, I love the season. I think, um, I think that Saul Metzinger directs it has such style to the way he shoots London at night.

• 7:01Chris Ryan?

  It gets you jazzed up.

• 7:03Andy Greenwald?

  Well, yeah, I mean, he's good. What he's really, really talented at is making the mundane look beautiful.

• 7:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 7:09Andy Greenwald?

  And like, just like council estate flats or, or the suburban road where, um, River and hoodie guy with a push knife, whose name I don't remember yet, go like, it's just, it's just so beautifully composed. I wouldn't say it's like the tourist brochure for London necessarily, but it's beautifully done. My question for you, and I feel like this is not even particularly spoilery for people listening to the pod who, um, are not caught up on Slow Horses or maybe never engage in Slow Horses, because I think it's a question that's applicable to other long-running shows.

• 7:39Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 7:40Andy Greenwald?

  Which is, have you ever had a point with the show where you feel like the shtick that has power, that is the engine of the show, might be limiting it?

• 7:51Chris Ryan?

  Are you asking if we've heard Jackson Lamb fart too many times?

• 7:54Andy Greenwald?

  That is the, uh, that is the builder's tea version of the question. Yes. The, the version that I meant was specifically in this episode. Again, I don't think this is a spoiler, but there's a scene when the whole gang is gathered, um, at an unexpected location.

• 8:09Chris Ryan?

  You might as well spoil it. I mean, we can say spoiler for the second episode.

• 8:12Andy Greenwald?

  Spoiler. They're all in a fancy hotel bar, which is a place they never would be. And everyone gets their turn getting dunked on by Jackson. And... The fact that River is still sitting there getting shit on in the exact same way, five seasons in, in that moment, I was like, you know, let Gary get his shots off, like, let him do his thing, but also, I would be ready for, and maybe it's coming in the season, a moment when Jackson isn't 10 steps ahead, a moment when he isn't as dismissive, you know, only because, look, last week, I was praising the show for sitcom logic, and how beautifully it works because of that, that every time a character walks into a room with two others, they have such strong personalities that you know how it's gonna go, and that's kind of like what made The Office work also.

• 8:57Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 8:57Andy Greenwald?

  When you're, it's always been a balancing act for a show that is also like, there are terrorists with giant guns menacing London, and he's still quipping. This is a very small nitpick, but I wondered if you had a reaction to it in this, or if it's applicable to other shows, long-running shows.

• 9:14Chris Ryan?

  I think that that tension is actually dramatized in this season, and it will continue to be so. I think that this is the gift and the curse of long-term planning. So if you are thinking to yourself, if Gary Oldman is down to play this part for years and years and years, and has said, "I will play this part for as long as I am physically able," then you've got something very reliable on your hands. And anecdotally, this is one of the few shows that I find people being like, "Oh, I, you know, I had a kid, so I, you know, well, I watched three seasons of Slow Horses when I was on night duty," or...

• 9:55Andy Greenwald?

  That would be great.

• 9:55Chris Ryan?

  It was like, people have been telling me that they have been catching up with, or finally got into Slow Horses. And I think it's because of the really specific, like, not only do they feel like it's worth the investment, because everybody keeps saying, "It's season five, and it's still really great."

• 10:12Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 10:12Chris Ryan?

  Those seasons are digestible, they're exciting, and they are comforting.

• 10:18Andy Greenwald?

  Yes, I can't think of a better...

• 10:20Chris Ryan?

  It's such a delicate balance, but you're identifying something really, really, really smart. What do you do when the things that make your show so reliably entertaining also start to make it feel a little bit unrealistic? Now, I personally thought that this season was fantastically constructed because it's compressed, it's very much in London, it's a London, almost chase thriller.

• 10:44Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, and you watched the season.

• 10:46Chris Ryan?

  And I did watch the season, yes. So I'm not trying to give anything away.

• 10:49Andy Greenwald?

  No, but it's good to know that you feel good about it.

• 10:51Chris Ryan?

  But I think that the way that they have decided to depict Lamb in the show is like Yoda-y, you know? Like where he is just like always the wisest, always like, you know, and I think that what it is, is that he is like, this is my kingdom. Like, I know how to do what I do here at Slough House and has no interest in moving anywhere.

• 11:20Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 11:21Chris Ryan?

  And so if you have a character who is like, I don't want to go anywhere, and you have an actor who's like, I don't want, I'm fine putting on this wig or growing my hair out and eating Chinese food and having bands with really good actors, then I think that that's good. Now, it's funny that we're saying like, is this show a little bit, you're like, oh, maybe it's stuck in third gear or something.

• 11:41Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, and I want to be clear, I'm never gonna stop watching it.

• 11:44Chris Ryan?

  The previous season, we were like, what the fuck is this?

• 11:45Andy Greenwald?

  Where's our show?

• 11:46Chris Ryan?

  When River was like, super soldier, son of a cult.

• 11:49Andy Greenwald?

  I think it was just more, the beauty of a stable, consistent show is that you can maybe take a little biopsy of one moment or one scene and just talk about it.

• 11:59Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 12:00Andy Greenwald?

  And so I think that what I was hoping for in this episode, an episode that I was thrilled to watch, that I was entertained throughout, and I'm eager and ready to watch the subsequent episode, when you have, the show is relatively stingy with probably good reason about its Diana Jackson scenes, Jason Scott Thomas and Gary Oldman sharing the screen. They're always memorable when they do. When she comes to Slough House, which I don't, I don't remember if she's done before, maybe she has once or twice in the past, and she confronts him in his office, I wanted to see another side of both of them because their long history, their essentially like-

• 12:42Andy Greenwald?

  Bumpy truths that they have is really interesting. I find that depth and backstory more compelling than who Rivers' dad is. And I kind of wanted a little more of it shown to me in that scene. That, you know, but the larger thing about the larger conversation about long running, ongoing shows, what makes them successful, what makes them successful and consistent over time inevitably leads to not everything has an endless road. Not everything is Grey's Anatomy, which basically has shuffled the deck so many times.

• 13:11Chris Ryan?

  But they've also replaced the cast six times.

• 13:13Andy Greenwald?

  It's been interesting, you know.

• 13:15Chris Ryan?

  They haven't done that with this show. They're bringing slowly, I think Shirley came in in the third season.

• 13:20Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, they, what they, what they do is they do what the Golden State Warriors couldn't do.

• 13:24Chris Ryan?

  They do. Bridge to the future.

• 13:25Andy Greenwald?

  You bridge to the future, ongoing rebuild.

• 13:27Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 13:28Andy Greenwald?

  And they do it better than any show I can think about.

• 13:29Chris Ryan?

  And Loudon, who is, uh, the second season of Gold is finally streaming in America starting next week, uh, on PBS.

• 13:39Andy Greenwald?

  Wow.

• 13:39Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 13:40Andy Greenwald?

  What a turn.

• 13:40Chris Ryan?

  And that has been uniformly glowing reviews for that. So I have not seen any of that yet, but I can't wait to check it out. Loudon's in that.

• 13:47Andy Greenwald?

  He's also the star of the new Netflix Pride and Prejudice. And he is the star of the Berlin, those, uh, Berlin spy books.

• 13:54Chris Ryan?

  That's going to be on Apple, right?

• 13:55Andy Greenwald?

  Eventually, yeah.

• 13:57Chris Ryan?

  Is he too big for this part at this point? I don't, I don't know.

• 14:02Andy Greenwald?

  It seems like a pretty, not the heaviest lift.

• 14:04Chris Ryan?

  I did not expect to be concerned trolling this because I'm like.

• 14:07Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, I'm not concerned.

• 14:08Chris Ryan?

  Because I think actually what this, this season does really, really well is make the very difficult magic trick of satireizing a moment while also probing like extremism in all factions of life.

• 14:22Andy Greenwald?

  I love the show and I'm grateful for it and TV would be poorer without it. And I honestly, I wish there were more of these. I wish there were more shows, I wish there were more B plus versions of Slow Horses than a lot of the other stuff that we see thrown on the screens. I, I guess I had a, I had a different perspective of it only because I watched the episode last night after my now fairly regular nightly viewing of rewatching The Office with my daughters. And there, there, I referenced it once.

• 14:46Chris Ryan?

  More similar than it is to that, than it is to.

• 14:48Andy Greenwald?

  It kind of is.

• 14:48Chris Ryan?

  The Bureau.

• 14:49Andy Greenwald?

  And it was fun watching, because I'd started with my. Younger daughter, my older daughter was skeptical of it and not sure she wanted to watch it with us. And now she's completely smitten, both because she like kind of locked in on the like the love stories and in the background, which, which she finds compelling and interesting, but also she said last night, like there's a Stanley joke and she's like, I love him. He's my favorite character. And then she said that about someone else and she's like, actually, everyone's my favorite character.

• 15:15Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 15:16Andy Greenwald?

  And that is a real skill. That is a situat- so Slow Horses.

• 15:20Chris Ryan?

  You could do the same with Slow Horses.

• 15:21Andy Greenwald?

  It's a situational thriller.

• 15:22Chris Ryan?

  I think it's interesting, you know, Will Smith is leaving the series after this season at least. And he has talked about, there is a Mick Heron kind of standalone, but in the Slough House universe book. I think it's Secret Hours and it's sort of a, I think it's a Jackson Lamb, Rivers uncle. And who's the name of the woman who's like basically like the librarian who's almost like the Connie of John Kerry stand in.

• 15:54Andy Greenwald?

  But I remember the character.

• 15:55Chris Ryan?

  It's a, it's like a prequel about them. So during the Cold War.

• 15:59Andy Greenwald?

  And it says chronologically, it's after the eighth book, but then set in terms of revelations.

• 16:03Chris Ryan?

  And that's the book that Will Smith is like, I'm most interested in.

• 16:07Andy Greenwald?

  That's cool.

• 16:07Chris Ryan?

  Tackling that if I were to come back or.

• 16:10Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. It's like 90s spy stuff.

• 16:11Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 16:12Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 16:13Chris Ryan?

  So it's.

• 16:14Andy Greenwald?

  Don't threaten us with a good time, Will.

• 16:15Chris Ryan?

  But like Will Smith leaving the show, I wonder if he's like, this is, I've written every great Jackson Lamb joke I can write.

• 16:24Andy Greenwald?

  Look, I, I think people point, often point to Veep as maybe the only successful showrunner swap in history. I would argue that West Wing was actually still pretty good after Circuit left. You know, I'm a big John Wells defender.

• 16:38Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. I keep getting served Matt Santos, Arnie Vinick.

• 16:43Andy Greenwald?

  We used to be a proper country.

• 16:45Chris Ryan?

  When he's like, you want to be my secretary of state?

• 16:47Andy Greenwald?

  Jesus Christ. Look at us reaching across the aisle.

• 16:50Chris Ryan?

  I won't do a single thing for you to get you reelected, you know?

• 16:53Andy Greenwald?

  What was the batting average champion the years when the West Wing was on? I bet it wasn't 304.

• 17:01Andy Greenwald?

  You know, I had the same conversation with Sean outside. And you know what he said? What happened to our beautiful game?

• 17:06Chris Ryan?

  I know.

• 17:06Andy Greenwald?

  But we all feel it.

• 17:07Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Just do it right.

• 17:09Andy Greenwald?

  I think that.

• 17:11Chris Ryan?

  And when a guy who's like batting 320, because he doesn't have a lot of at bats or whatever, like some dude, I saw some dude playing for the, I don't know, was it the Reds or something last night? And he had a really good batting average and the announcers are just like, this jackass.

• 17:25Andy Greenwald?

  What? Why?

• 17:26Chris Ryan?

  Because he's like, all this guy does is get hits.

• 17:28Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, and we don't like that?

• 17:29Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 17:30Andy Greenwald?

  It's not the one true outcome, the two true outcomes?

• 17:33Chris Ryan?

  It's three true outcomes, right?

• 17:34Andy Greenwald?

  Not anymore, not in this America.

• 17:37Chris Ryan?

  There's shave your beard or get a new job.

• 17:40Andy Greenwald?

  Basically it.

• 17:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 17:42Andy Greenwald?

  Anyway, all of that is to say, I have full confidence that Slow Horses will be on the list of shows that had a successful showrunner transition.

• 17:50Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 17:50Andy Greenwald?

  It is such a smoothly running ship.

• 17:54Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 17:55Andy Greenwald?

  And look, we can move on from it, but like this, it's funny to nitpick a show that gets so much more right than it has ever gotten wrong. But that's the beauty of having a podcast.

• 18:06Chris Ryan?

  I wanted to ask you about the Landman trailer that dropped today.

• 18:09Andy Greenwald?

  Well, we watched it together.

• 18:10Chris Ryan?

  I think we recorded it today. This is, we're recording on Wednesday. Uh, the show's coming out on Thursday and then Landman comes out day before my birthday, November 16th.

• 18:19Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 18:20Chris Ryan?

  So a big present for me.

• 18:22Andy Greenwald?

  Do you think they'll show that in countries outside of America? I think the tariff alone probably makes it.

• 18:27Chris Ryan?

  I think it's actually just like American propaganda.

• 18:30Andy Greenwald?

  It's only airing on the Voice of America radio stations.

• 18:33Chris Ryan?

  Telegram.

• 18:35Andy Greenwald?

  It's dropping DVDs of it over the capital cities.

• 18:40Chris Ryan?

  You joke, but there is like, there is like a American oil, American jobs, like banner flying in this one. Uh, I am, I still remain a fan of the first season as ridiculous as it is. I'm excited to see Sam Elliott, uh, back at a Taylor Sheridan show so good in 1883. He joins the cast. I have to assume he is like Billy Bob's, Carrot Tommy's character, the older brother.

• 19:08Andy Greenwald?

  I think he's gonna be his dad. I think this whole show is.

• 19:11Chris Ryan?

  Sam Elliott, how old is Sam Elliott?

• 19:12Andy Greenwald?

  Sam Elliott is in his eighties, I think.

• 19:15Chris Ryan?

  Is he?

• 19:15Andy Greenwald?

  He's, you know, he's 81 years old.

• 19:17Chris Ryan?

  And Billy Bob is what, early sixties, mid sixties?

• 19:20Andy Greenwald?

  Billy Bob is 70. But Billy Bob is 70 playing 50 on the show.

• 19:25Chris Ryan?

  Is he playing 50? I think he's playing 60.

• 19:28Andy Greenwald?

  I think that in his mind, in this entire show is through his mind, he's playing 40. Like, he's 100% a young and vital landman.

• 19:38Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 19:38Andy Greenwald?

  In this show.

• 19:39Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 19:40Andy Greenwald?

  It would not surprise me. I'm not saying that's true. We don't, we don't know. I don't think that what's happening.

• 19:45Chris Ryan?

  That's gonna be fucking funny if Sam Elliott is playing Billy Bob Thornton's dad.

• 19:50Andy Greenwald?

  I mean, why not? I'm looking it up.

• 19:52Chris Ryan?

  I was hoping it would be his older brother.

• 19:53Andy Greenwald?

  Uh huh.

• 19:54Chris Ryan?

  Uh, in any case, the whole gang is back. Ally Larter, uh, the lawyer who went to Northwestern.

• 20:00Andy Greenwald?

  Did she ever mention that?

• 20:01Chris Ryan?

  Um, all the oil Wildcats. And then it appears.

• 20:07Andy Greenwald?

  May I? I'm sorry. Sam Elliott is joining the cast of Taylor Sheridan's Landman for its second season as a series regular, reprising his role as Tommy Norris's father, a character known as The Legend, or simply Pops.

• 20:19Chris Ryan?

  What do you mean reprising? It's not in the first season.

• 20:21Andy Greenwald?

  No, this is clearly a AI slop, but.

• 20:23Chris Ryan?

  Um, I would say that, you know, it's been.

• 20:26Andy Greenwald?

  That's so cool.

• 20:27Chris Ryan?

  It's been talked about that Demi Moore is gonna, Demi Moore is gonna have like a big part this season.

• 20:33Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, clearly.

• 20:33Chris Ryan?

  Um, and this is coming off of her Oscar nomination for The Substance. And, uh, I look forward to that.

• 20:42Andy Greenwald?

  Can I, can I weigh in on it?

• 20:43Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 20:44Andy Greenwald?

  You sure?

• 20:45Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 20:46Andy Greenwald?

  I want to commend everyone involved in the marketing and presentation of the show because they, in two minutes and 30 seconds, they have made Landman look like an extremely plausible, ongoing television drama. This pie, this trailer contains much of what the season that we've seen lacks. It seems to have stakes, structure, momentum.

• 21:08Chris Ryan?

  What do you mean stakes? He gets kidnapped like multiple times in the first season.

• 21:11Andy Greenwald?

  And he walks out of all of them with his silver tongue, his silver 26-year-old tongue, or whatever it is.

• 21:19Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, no, I enjoyed our experience with season one. There were even moments, as we said repeatedly during our coverage, that were compelling.

• 21:26Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, like Jerry Jones dying.

• 21:28Andy Greenwald?

  He didn't die.

• 21:29Chris Ryan?

  No, he doesn't die.

• 21:31Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, how dare you?

• 21:32Chris Ryan?

  He's just in the hospital while Ham's in the hospital.

• 21:34Andy Greenwald?

  He gives Ham a pep talk about the beauty of life and Ham's like, sick. I gotta go film your friends and neighbors.

• 21:40Chris Ryan?

  The Philly came out of me.

• 21:41Andy Greenwald?

  Jerry Jones dying. How dare you, sir?

• 21:44Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 21:46Andy Greenwald?

  It's just that every time something started rolling, Billy Bob would just, you know, start explaining to a woman what truth was, or Ali Larder would, you know, make a salad and then have a tantrum like that. It's just that the Taylor shared an experience.

• 22:00Chris Ryan?

  Didn't she do like a Moroccan feast?

• 22:02Andy Greenwald?

  She makes a paella at some point, I think.

• 22:03Chris Ryan?

  A paella.

• 22:04Andy Greenwald?

  The Taylor shared an experience is the opposite of a trailer. It's just like, here's something I like and here's also something I like.

• 22:10Chris Ryan?

  It's seven minutes.

• 22:11Andy Greenwald?

  And we're serving it all to you buffet style.

• 22:13Chris Ryan?

  It's Cheesecake Factory.

• 22:14Andy Greenwald?

  It is. But, um, but yeah, like there is a very modern sensibility of shows clearing their throats for a first season and Demi Moore had very little to do with the first season.

• 22:27Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, it was a very strange situation. She swims laps, then she shows up for spoilers for the first season of Landman. Okay, she shows up for Jon Hamm's somewhat ambiguous death, uh, where we were all kind of wondering whether or not Monty was gonna pull through.

• 22:44Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 22:44Chris Ryan?

  And then I would imagine her sobbing over his corpse answered those questions.

• 22:49Andy Greenwald?

  Right.

• 22:49Chris Ryan?

  As did Jon Hamm being like, I'm not on Landman anymore.

• 22:52Andy Greenwald?

  Thank you for your question. I will not be reprising the role on Landman.

• 22:56Chris Ryan?

  Um.

• 22:57Andy Greenwald?

  But, but, but if you, if you lay that track, like at least have it pay off and it seems like that's, that's a more interesting dynamic to me already. Like that's a, the show is beginning in a more interesting place.

• 23:07Chris Ryan?

  And she owns the company that she is the owner of the company, but Tommy runs the company. He was bequeathed some operational control.

• 23:14Andy Greenwald?

  And in the absence of Ham, uh, the kosher setup of the company, if you will, means that everyone's coming for them.

• 23:20Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 23:21Andy Greenwald?

  And that's interesting. And Tommy's son is no longer, uh, the newbie. He's now.

• 23:26Chris Ryan?

  I think that kid struck oil.

• 23:28Andy Greenwald?

  The trailer suggests that he may have struck some oil.

• 23:30Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, since he's covered in oil.

• 23:32Andy Greenwald?

  Since he's completely head to toe Roger Sterling, season six of Mad Men. Yeah.

• 23:38Chris Ryan?

  Well, see you in November, brother.

• 23:40Andy Greenwald?

  So that's what I have to come home to? That's what I have to look forward to? Like, all these weeks of reading about the decline of America.

• 23:47Chris Ryan?

  I don't make the shows. You know, if you have a better idea about what to talk about, you're welcome to to offer it up. I I'm just taking what I didn't make you talk about Terminal List Dark Wolf, did I?

• 23:57Andy Greenwald?

  Did you watch it?

• 23:58Chris Ryan?

  I watched some of it. It's a project that I'm working on.

• 24:02Andy Greenwald?

  You're reading Richard Rohr books about spirituality and watching?

• 24:05Chris Ryan?

  And your departure from the United States is very convenient for me. As I get through TLD dubs.

• 24:12Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, all right, that's fine. I think that it's also a product of having a podcast run by two people pleasers. Like, I just want you to be happy.

• 24:18Chris Ryan?

  I, thank you. Thank you. Um, what I I think to me, what Landman is to me, Jay Kelly is to you. I don't really have any observations to offer about the second trailer for this Noah Baumbach film.

• 24:30Andy Greenwald?

  Teaser, and now we have the full.

• 24:32Chris Ryan?

  I feel like the teaser was very explained the plot.

• 24:36Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 24:36Chris Ryan?

  Um, but why don't you talk a little bit about why this movie is beckoning you to you?

• 24:41Andy Greenwald?

  I love movies about show business, baby. No, I love movies. I mean, I love Noah Baumbach movies. I love Emily Mortimer as an actor, but also as a writer. I thought her, um, show, The Pursuit of Love, she came on the podcast to talk about it, was just one of those. We should at some point just make a list of like, things Amazon did that I don't know if Amazon knows it did.

• 25:00Chris Ryan?

  We saw that Peter Freeland went back, went back. He went from Netflix to Amazon.

• 25:05Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, we should talk about that news. Let me just finish by saying, um.

• 25:08Chris Ryan?

  Why you love Jay Kelly. Sight unseen.

• 25:10Andy Greenwald?

  I'm just psyched for this movie. I like, I, I, I like movies about aura. This entire movie seems to be about George Clooney's charisma.

• 25:19Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 25:19Andy Greenwald?

  And, uh, he's very, very good in movies where he plays slightly bruised versions of himself. That's basically his best iteration, I think.

• 25:28Chris Ryan?

  What would you say is another example of that?

• 25:30Andy Greenwald?

  Descendants, Michael Clayton, The American.

• 25:32Chris Ryan?

  I, I think those are like, playing against type, right?

• 25:35Andy Greenwald?

  Well, no, movies in which he is valued for his face or his charisma.

• 25:41Chris Ryan?

  Right.

• 25:42Andy Greenwald?

  But his soul is, uh, broken.

• 25:45Chris Ryan?

  Okay, yeah.

• 25:46Andy Greenwald?

  You see that?

• 25:46Chris Ryan?

  I think, I think you're, you're talking about like, a slightly different version of George Clooney would be like, this guy has it all. It's Ocean's, it's Danny Ocean. You know what I mean?

• 25:54Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, right.

• 25:55Chris Ryan?

  Well, actually, though, I guess he doesn't have it all, because he doesn't have Tess in the beginning of the first movie. So it's just like, yeah.

• 26:01Andy Greenwald?

  So, anyway, it's a great cast. It's a guy, I don't know what you have against it.

• 26:05Chris Ryan?

  Nothing.

• 26:05Andy Greenwald?

  You're just mad that I'm seeing that instead of weapons.

• 26:08Chris Ryan?

  I am mad that you're not seeing Weapons.

• 26:10Andy Greenwald?

  Am I gonna see Weapons?

• 26:12Chris Ryan?

  Weapons, I guarantee you, you're gonna watch, you're gonna start Weapons on a flight and you're gonna be like, this is fucking awful.

• 26:19Andy Greenwald?

  No, what? Oh, because of the beginning? Was it beginning with like a bunch of kids dying?

• 26:22Chris Ryan?

  No.

• 26:23Andy Greenwald?

  Okay, well, then I can handle it.

• 26:24Chris Ryan?

  I can't spoil it.

• 26:24Andy Greenwald?

  I'm not gonna watch it on a, I have remained unspoiled. I intend to watch it, but I'm trying to figure out, I'm still just trying to like, it's the best way to get me through this, you know, like I did think theater was best because I couldn't, um, leave.

• 26:38Chris Ryan?

  Movie theo, oh, to see Weapons.

• 26:40Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 26:40Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 26:41Andy Greenwald?

  I haven't seen it yet, but I'll have a lot of time. My hand's coming up.

• 26:43Chris Ryan?

  So the little news item that we just mentioned.

• 26:46Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 26:47Chris Ryan?

  Which was remarked upon, I guess this happened like, um, two weeks ago about, I think.

• 26:51Andy Greenwald?

  The new, then the.

• 26:52Chris Ryan?

  Peter Friedlander left Netflix about six weeks ago, right? A month ago, a couple of months ago. And Peter Friedlander had been, you know, Andy and I had gotten a chance to chat with him a little bit around the time of Black Doves, I think.

• 27:04Andy Greenwald?

  Season two filming now in London.

• 27:05Chris Ryan?

  Season two, like, well, tell him good luck for me.

• 27:08Andy Greenwald?

  I genuinely will.

• 27:10Chris Ryan?

  But he had overseen Netflix's scripted TV offerings, correct?

• 27:14Andy Greenwald?

  He was one of the earliest employees of that side of their business and had grown with it and had a hand in a lot of the Netflix shows that we covered. And so we developed kind of a friendly rapport.

• 27:27Chris Ryan?

  And, uh, left the company and was a free agent for a few weeks and then.

• 27:32Andy Greenwald?

  Very short amount of time.

• 27:34Chris Ryan?

  Very interestingly, so he is replacing Vernon Sanders.

• 27:37Andy Greenwald?

  Essentially.

• 27:37Chris Ryan?

  At Amazon now.

• 27:39Andy Greenwald?

  As the head of TV for.

• 27:40Chris Ryan?

  The moving and comings and goings of executives may be of little interest to our listeners, but what they do mean is the kind of programming you get. And to me, you know, Amazon is one of the strangest, we should actually do a history of Amazon Prime Video original programming one of these days because.

• 27:58Andy Greenwald?

  Fascinating story.

• 27:59Chris Ryan?

  In the beginning, it was literally subsidizing like great art

• 28:06Chris Ryan?

  for seemingly like no reason whatsoever, whether it was like the Romanoffs. Now, whether all these shows were great, that's for the viewer to decide. But like the idea of just being like, Matthew Weiner, here's a blank check to make your dream project.

• 28:20Andy Greenwald?

  The shows that they did at the beginning, whether it was Transparent or like Luring Woody Allen to make a TV show, like the Roy Price era is absolute creative chaos in a kind of interesting way.

• 28:30Chris Ryan?

  And it bled into subsequent years where, you know, whether it was 000 or Too Old to Die Young, the Nicholas London, the English, there were still remnants of it. I would say that this last year has been the like, ah, okay, so this is what is success. I sometimes struggle frankly with understanding the new version of like what we call ratings, which is stuff that like Julia Alexander writes about really well for Parrot and Entertainment Strategy Guy writes it really well about in his newsletter. But I honestly like it's the, it's kind of like slash lines in baseball. I'm like, is there a batting average anymore? Like what is, how many people are watching it? Is it popular?

• 29:13Chris Ryan?

  And I've kind of almost thrown my hands up, but I, I kind of feel like what we've seen from Amazon in the last year is like, this is actually what people watch.

• 29:24Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 29:24Chris Ryan?

  This is somewhat prestigey procedurals, Bosch spinoffs, special forces shows and YA.

• 29:33Andy Greenwald?

  Reacher and YA. Yeah. And what's interesting to me about this is it took a long time and took a lot of money and Amazon certainly has no shortage of either to reach something that most channels in the old days, streamers in the current world struggle to find, which is clarity.

• 29:52Andy Greenwald?

  They aren't, the, the, the majority of the offerings aren't what we, we don't cover a lot of them. It's not necessarily prestige, but it's stick to your ribs or punch until you break ribs kind of mainstream programming and then fall out, you know, being like a.

• 30:09Andy Greenwald?

  It's elevated, but it is also-

• 30:11Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I think you could say it's the same for Rings of Power, you know?

• 30:14Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 30:14Chris Ryan?

  Like, that it's a massive genre adaptation.

• 30:19Andy Greenwald?

  But, but really, I feel like it's Terminalist and Reacher that kind of clarified their strategy.

• 30:25Chris Ryan?

  And Bosch and Ballard and like that, that whole like-

• 30:29Andy Greenwald?

  So, that works.

• 30:30Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 30:30Andy Greenwald?

  What's interesting about bringing in Peter is that like whenever we had spoken to him or had any interaction with him, he's advocating for the Black Doves of the world. The, the sort of, the B-side to the, maybe the headline story on Netflix's slate. And I'm very curious if he can go into a place that is famously fractured. I wouldn't, on the outside, say dysfunctional because I don't have any insight necessarily into how it functions, but the stories you hear about how Amazon makes decisions is very, very, very much like tech world, not necessarily Hollywood. And sometimes you see that in the results where like the shows we're talking about, The English or Pursuit of Love or 000, you had to like really search for it to find.

• 31:12Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 31:12Andy Greenwald?

  Like, Amazon has the ability, like Apple does, to be like, okay, sure. And then move on from something without investing a lot of marketing into it if they don't believe in it or if it doesn't fit with a larger paradigm. Hiring Peter could mean they just need to, another, they need to replace a trusted, steady hand in Vernon Wells with someone else who's trusted-

• 31:28Chris Ryan?

  Sanders.

• 31:28Andy Greenwald?

  Sorry, Vernon Sanders, who is trusted, um, uh, and, and, you know, has good relationships. Or it could suggest that Amazon feels, for whatever reason, whether it's prestige, whether it's relationships, whether it's Emmy hunting, or whether it's diversification of their slate, that they want to do, pursue a strategy that Netflix has really perfected, which is Netflix, at this moment, is incredibly good, if not like pathologically relentlessly assassin-level expert at programming for 18 different-

• 31:59Chris Ryan?

  It's unbelievable.

• 32:00Andy Greenwald?

  People at the same time.

• 32:00Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 32:01Andy Greenwald?

  Whereas if you like a certain-

• 32:02Chris Ryan?

  But they do not, they have not turned their back on, and in fact, I think pride themselves in Adolescence in, you know, like-

• 32:09Andy Greenwald?

  This is what I mean. And, and if you go to Netflix to watch Adolescence, it will say suggested viewing and it will be something else highbrow, high-minded.

• 32:18Andy Greenwald?

  For the greater good, intellectual, you could also go to Netflix for, as you know, it's the easiest joke in the world, like Flora's lava or whatever, like, but they will service that audience to the best of your ability. And so you can be a Netflix subscriber and you can be one of 30 different algorithmic types and feel fed. You know what I mean?

• 32:38Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 32:38Andy Greenwald?

  Whereas if you go to Amazon, if you are a certain type of person, you probably have to sift through a lot and maybe find something. So I wonder if there is some, if they're interested in some of that, which actually gives me hope both as a critic, as a fan and as a creator, because more diversity of programming is good generally for the industry.

• 32:56Chris Ryan?

  I would imagine, I don't know how many of the shows that we talked about that are sort of the staples of Amazon's current lineup, like say,

• 33:08Chris Ryan?

  Terminalist or whatever.

• 33:09Andy Greenwald?

  Some right there in pretty.

• 33:10Chris Ryan?

  I don't know how many of those that Skydance participated in, but you would imagine that Paramount is going to become the new home for some of that stuff.

• 33:18Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 33:19Chris Ryan?

  And.

• 33:20Andy Greenwald?

  That's a good point.

• 33:21Chris Ryan?

  You need to diversify the portfolio, especially if Paramount's like we're supercharging dad TV procedurals, military dramas, et cetera.

• 33:31Andy Greenwald?

  Mm hmm.

• 33:32Chris Ryan?

  I, which I don't know that that's what they're gonna do because Cindy Holland, who runs Paramount TV now, has got a hugely widely diverse set of tastes and relationships in Hollywood. But I don't think Amazon's ever gonna go back to Joey Soloway adapting Chris Kraus books. I think what they're gonna go back to or try to find is, A, a lot of good international TV out there to be bought, you know? I, the Amazon Prime should be, should have the gold season too, not PBS.

• 34:00Andy Greenwald?

  I agree. And. Why are you kicking PBS when they're already down?

• 34:04Chris Ryan?

  PBS, but I think Peter Friedlander has shown an ability to scout internationally for TV. And B, there is a middle ground between.

• 34:14Chris Ryan?

  Terminalist Dark Wolf and Joey Soloway. And trying to find that something for people to watch. It's also interesting, Amazon has not really exploited the MGM library the way I think we thought they would.

• 34:29Andy Greenwald?

  Since they took over.

• 34:30Chris Ryan?

  Now they've fully taken control of James Bond. I would think that inevitably there will be like the Money Penny TV show or whatever, or like a, I imagine that they will now start to try to derive revenue out of, out of that universe in a way that the broccoli family was always very protective of. But it's, it's notable to me that, you know, there is not a Creed TV show, right? Like.

• 34:55Andy Greenwald?

  Not yet.

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• 37:09Andy Greenwald?

  It's worth hitting on lately since we're doing industry talk, not the show industry, which is, I think, coming back in January, but just like the current Hollywood industry. The moves Paramount has been making, the moves that Paramount has been making are not, I don't mean this in a political sense, but they are not ideological. Like, you don't necessarily get a sense of the type of programming that Paramount writ large as a company wants to pursue from what they've been doing. What they've been doing is stamping their feet and making a lot of noise. So that included signing the Duffer Brothers for all of their post Stranger Things.

• 37:43Chris Ryan?

  Including like theatrical releases, which I think was a problem for them with Netflix.

• 37:47Andy Greenwald?

  Exactly. Which is like buying like the hottest, the town's hottest R-rated comedy spec script and being like, you know, outbidding everyone for it, proving your real players.

• 37:57Chris Ryan?

  They did that with the James Mangold, Timothy Chalamet motorcycle crime movie.

• 38:01Andy Greenwald?

  They also bought, they came out on top of a big bidding war for a Mangold-Chalamet movie and then doubled down on it yesterday by signing Mangold to an overall deal.

• 38:09Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, but like that Mangold makes the kind of movies that. Uh, generally speaking, 55 year old men love watching.

• 38:18Andy Greenwald?

  So I have some ways to go before I get into it.

• 38:19Chris Ryan?

  No, but like when you look at 310 Yuma and you look at Logan.

• 38:24Andy Greenwald?

  Complete Unknown.

• 38:24Chris Ryan?

  You complete unknown and Ford versus Ferrari and whatever else he decides to make and you know, all of these overall deals are kind of ridiculous because it's like James Mangold's also making a Star Wars movie for Disney and you know, like.

• 38:37Andy Greenwald?

  It's a way of sweetening the pot.

• 38:38Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 38:39Andy Greenwald?

  Basically, and, and building relationships and it is interesting the way that even in this diminished version of the entertainment industry that we're living through.

• 38:50Andy Greenwald?

  The one thing that can rearrange the tides and the weather is a new player in town. Paramount, obviously not a new player, but the Skydance takeover has made it such. And so there is an attitude of excitement and optimism that I haven't seen in a while, mainly because once someone, once, once a whale comes back to the table, all the starting bets go up.

• 39:13Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I'm, I'm very curious to see over the next 24 months.

• 39:19Chris Ryan?

  If not only do we, if we have some more

• 39:23Chris Ryan?

  mergers, some contractions of, of networks, or at least, you know, moving and shaking going on between, you know, people leaving some network to go to another. Right now, I, I routinely open Apple TV and I'm just like stunned at the star power that is on shows that are so un-star like, you know?

• 39:45Andy Greenwald?

  Like what?

• 39:46Chris Ryan?

  I just, it's kind of crazy to look at like Jessica Chastain's making like kind of a really high end, like procedural, like spy drama. Yeah, the one that got delayed, the savant, you know?

• 39:58Andy Greenwald?

  But she's also making a, an Apple show about the art world.

• 40:01Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, McConaughey and, and Woody are reuniting for a show that's coming on Apple soon.

• 40:08Chris Ryan?

  Maybe there's that, a little bit of like, there's now a renewed kind of like, yeah, but it's TV famous. Do you know what I mean?

• 40:15Andy Greenwald?

  Do you think?

• 40:15Chris Ryan?

  Well, with all due respect, does Jessica Chastain like open a movie? Like, nobody can open a movie anymore. It's like, there's no rhyme or reason to that.

• 40:23Andy Greenwald?

  No, I do think one of the most influential careers of the last few years is Reese Witherspoon. Nicole Kidman certainly is in the mix as well for being like, you know what I like to do? Act. Let's go.

• 40:35Chris Ryan?

  I like to work and I like to play the parts that I want to play and the place where I can do that is TV.

• 40:39Andy Greenwald?

  But the Reese Witherspoon arc is so fascinating of like seeing the moment, like doing what she got an Oscar for Wild, right?

• 40:45Chris Ryan?

  I believe so, yes.

• 40:46Andy Greenwald?

  And that's like, okay, I've, I've reached the pinnacle again, or even if I don't remember, I think she won, but regardless, like that was, she, she reached it, she did it. And then she's like, okay, now I want to be a, build an empire, right? And so going to TV.

• 41:02Chris Ryan?

  She's pretty fired up about AI.

• 41:03Andy Greenwald?

  Well, this is the thing, picking projects, producing the projects, starting a production company, selling the production company for untold millions, if not billions, and then, and then like hard pivoting into just whatever tech is coming next.

• 41:16Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 41:18Andy Greenwald?

  I'm a little, I'm personally a little cynical about it.

• 41:20Chris Ryan?

  I think I'm cynical about it where I, I just, I don't really understand the need to be at the forefront of all this stuff.

• 41:29Andy Greenwald?

  Empowering women's voices in AI.

• 41:30Chris Ryan?

  Same thing with like Matt Damon with Bitcoin. I'm like.

• 41:33Andy Greenwald?

  You didn't need to do it.

• 41:34Chris Ryan?

  I, did you give all that money to like build Wells? Maybe you did, I have no idea. Like I've no, I've no, I don't really, really care about this stuff. There's way bigger problems in the world, but I, I think that it's been interesting to be immersed in Redford's career because we're doing Redford Month on rewatchables. And by no means was Redford like, um, beyond using his fame, you know, or, or just enriching himself.

• 42:01Andy Greenwald?

  Sure.

• 42:02Chris Ryan?

  But the things that Redford did with that fame and riches were like pretty significant. Same thing with Paul Newman, who I think he used as like a model in his career. And yeah, those guys were like movie stars and they got to like have cool lives, but they were also, I don't know that Robert Redford would have been like, God, you know, it's great as fucking AI, you know?

• 42:21Andy Greenwald?

  I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have been, but I also wonder who's, is it smart or is it cynical? Because, you know, we were, the other day, we were talking about one battle after, one battle after another and how DiCaprio's career is.

• 42:35Andy Greenwald?

  Now it is, he's like, he's like the last mastodon. Like, it is completely unique and is celebrated, right? That he doesn't do genre schlock, or he doesn't do superhero movies.

• 42:44Chris Ryan?

  He does genre schlock, it's just with Martin Scorsese.

• 42:46Andy Greenwald?

  Well, he works with great directors, great directors only.

• 42:49Chris Ryan?

  He doesn't make superhero movies.

• 42:50Andy Greenwald?

  And he gives advice to the younger generation who now want to try and follow his path. But can they? Because it's like, Chalamet's doing his best by like, I'm working with great directors and I'm going to try to see my way through the thicket of this, this era of my fame, because I want to do this for, for a long time. But he also made Wonka.

• 43:06Chris Ryan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:06Andy Greenwald?

  You know, which definitely got burned in my house and I'm very burned out on it.

• 43:10Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 43:11Andy Greenwald?

  But is that career even, I don't know. We, we don't need to go down the road of like, what kind of career one can have, but.

• 43:18Chris Ryan?

  We were talking about like.

• 43:19Andy Greenwald?

  It is interesting to see some actors use the TV shows as like, like leverage plays for their stability and their standing, or just frankly to like, cake up.

• 43:31Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 43:31Andy Greenwald?

  Like, this, this is going to work for me for two years while I pivot to taking on mom or dad roles instead of the roles I'm used to playing or whatever it may be.

• 43:38Chris Ryan?

  Do you think it diminishes, is there something weirdly like, walled off? Even though Apple is a popular television streaming service at this point, it has Ted Lasso, you know, I mean, I think that honestly, and we have, we live in a very specific environment, but like, a lot of people we know either are like, watching or frankly, working on Apple shows.

• 44:02Andy Greenwald?

  It's true.

• 44:02Chris Ryan?

  Like, that's kind of the TV business quiet as kept in where it's just like, yeah, man, I like watching Platonic, you know?

• 44:08Andy Greenwald?

  Well, that's me.

• 44:09Chris Ryan?

  But is that, they've almost now like, bankrolled, reliable television.

• 44:16Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 44:16Chris Ryan?

  Like, it, it kind of doesn't go that too high up, doesn't go that too far down. It just is what it is.

• 44:21Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 44:22Chris Ryan?

  And you can like, sit there with your partner and watch Platonic and it's pretty good, and then you can go about your day. It's not like I need to get my fucking Franciscan theology books out for this task. But it is, it is entertaining television. And that's where a lot of these people who I would consider to be fucking celebrities are gravitating.

• 44:41Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, I mean, that's also Apple's business plan is because. It's worth it to them to spend however many billions they spend.

• 44:47Chris Ryan?

  To have Reese and Jennifer texting on that show.

• 44:49Andy Greenwald?

  Not just have them texting on the show, yes, but also so that every Apple Store, all the screens in unison are showing Jon Hamm in his show or Ted, like it's just, it's all promotion.

• 45:02Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 45:02Andy Greenwald?

  For this, for the same product.

• 45:03Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 45:03Andy Greenwald?

  As the place to be for everything tech or new or pretty or skinny or whatever the new iPhone is supposed to be.

• 45:10Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, I used to think that there was not, speaking of doing like a short history of Amazon Prime Video, like I think it would be useful to do it for Apple TV too, because I, I used to think that there was no guiding aesthetic or storytelling ethos to those shows, but now I'm starting to really detect one. Where I, you know, obviously like Apple is like one of the only places it's like, keep making seasons. You know, they could keep making platonic for four or five years, you know, like.

• 45:34Andy Greenwald?

  I hope they do.

• 45:36Chris Ryan?

  And the same goes for they're bringing Ted Lasso back. I'm sure the golf show will come back like, uh, stick. I, I'm sure, you know, if, if brothers, the Woody Harrelson and Matthew McConaughey show works, they would back up the money truck to get them to do another season of that.

• 45:53Andy Greenwald?

  I think it's an interesting conversation to have.

• 45:55Chris Ryan?

  But it's strange to see fucking Harrison Ford in a Bill Lawrence show.

• 45:58Andy Greenwald?

  As a supporting actor.

• 45:59Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 46:00Andy Greenwald?

  I think it's, I think it's, it's, it's, it might be an interesting framing for an upcoming episode or conversation to think of Apple as the baseline. And that in the sense that not, not in terms of its cost, which, which is just wild compared to what everyone else spends on things, but that everyone is responding to it. That like Apple's entry this many years into it, now five plus years in, um, they are in many ways, setting the tempo of the industry in a different way in terms of what the other shows are, what the other streamers are programming, what they're able to put together, what they value. You know, um, when we first started talking about task, um, on HBO, I think that one of the first things, thoughts that I had was what would the show have looked like had it been developed for Apple?

• 46:43Andy Greenwald?

  And one of the main things is I don't think Tom Pelfrey would be the other guy on the, on the poster.

• 46:48Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 46:48Andy Greenwald?

  That's just not their business model. I think the show is better because it has an exceptional actor on the cusp of a certain kind of familiarity or stardom next to the Incredible Hulk. But, um, that's just not Apple's model.

• 46:59Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 47:00Andy Greenwald?

  They wouldn't do it. They would have cast that at the highest possible level.

• 47:04Chris Ryan?

  I have like sort of a closing conversation topic for you.

• 47:07Andy Greenwald?

  Is it about the, um, slow arriving season three renewal of Lioness?

• 47:14Chris Ryan?

  It just, they had to get Nicole Steel right, you know?

• 47:16Andy Greenwald?

  Were you, were you across that?

• 47:18Chris Ryan?

  Um, no, but I, I, you know, I, Kidman also is just, it was announced that her marriage is ending.

• 47:24Andy Greenwald?

  Okay.

• 47:25Chris Ryan?

  Um, sorry to hear that.

• 47:26Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 47:27Chris Ryan?

  What is, what is?

• 47:28Andy Greenwald?

  Is it time to shoot your shot?

• 47:29Chris Ryan?

  I ain't reading all that. I'm sad. I'm happy for you or I'm sorry. Like, I don't know whether she, maybe she's thrilled.

• 47:35Andy Greenwald?

  Let's leave it to Ringer Dish.

• 47:36Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, exactly. Uh, but yes, it is going to be a long delayed season three, but, uh, trust and Taylor. And I just don't want to see a single fucking beard on that show. That's all I know.

• 47:47Andy Greenwald?

  Everyone's better, everyone better be trim AF.

• 47:49Chris Ryan?

  No Nordic pagans, although I guess those guys are in special operations, so they are allowed to have beards. According to Pete, Pete Heckseth.

• 47:55Andy Greenwald?

  Is that what he said?

• 47:55Chris Ryan?

  Yep.

• 47:56Andy Greenwald?

  I'm just glad that-

• 47:56Chris Ryan?

  Do you know this joke? Do you know, not, no joke, but do you, did you watch any of the speech?

• 48:00Andy Greenwald?

  I found it very inspiring.

• 48:01Chris Ryan?

  Okay.

• 48:02Andy Greenwald?

  I think all the generals must have been thrilled.

• 48:04Chris Ryan?

  They were like, glad I flew across the planet.

• 48:05Andy Greenwald?

  This seems worth it.

• 48:06Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Uh, okay. You're on your way, a little adventure, right?

• 48:12Andy Greenwald?

  A long adventure, yeah.

• 48:13Chris Ryan?

  When you go on a trip like this, do you pre-plan? I'm, I'm bringing these books.

• 48:21Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 48:22Chris Ryan?

  I'm, I'm gonna make time for these records, like finally gonna get into the-

• 48:26Andy Greenwald?

  Oh yeah, we talked about that.

• 48:27Chris Ryan?

  This fucking geese record.

• 48:28Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, is that a geese shirt?

• 48:28Chris Ryan?

  It is a geese shirt.

• 48:29Andy Greenwald?

  That's sick.

• 48:29Chris Ryan?

  It's a geese, but it then it's a cowboy. It's like, what the fuck is up with that?

• 48:33Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Keep going. That's the cowboy in the 3D country.

• 48:37Chris Ryan?

  Um, are you, are you like, I'm, I got a menu of stuff I'm choosing from as I, as I embark? Or are you like, life, just come at me, man. Let's see.

• 48:49Andy Greenwald?

  Isn't-

• 48:49Chris Ryan?

  The tube trains go by, you know?

• 48:52Andy Greenwald?

  Revealing the landman posters, like the last year when I was there, it was on every tube stop.

• 48:56Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 48:57Andy Greenwald?

  Um, I think you're hitting at something. I mean, this is the, that is the crux of modern existence, right? Like, we want to be present and alive to possibilities in every moment. But also I do not want to leave the house without at least seven hours of interesting programming locked into my iPad.

• 49:11Chris Ryan?

  Yes.

• 49:11Andy Greenwald?

  Um, there are certain things that are, I'm grateful for. Like, one is, you're mentioning a show like Platonic. Um, Platonic, I have not finished.

• 49:21Chris Ryan?

  Oh, you haven't?

• 49:21Andy Greenwald?

  I've got those in the hopper now. I've- Got.

• 49:24Chris Ryan?

  I finished it.

• 49:25Andy Greenwald?

  I know you do the work.

• 49:26Chris Ryan?

  No, well, my, my wife was on a real platonic jag.

• 49:28Andy Greenwald?

  I have the screeners for Nobody Wants this season two. So there's a certain light entertainment that works well with jet lag.

• 49:34Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 49:35Andy Greenwald?

  That I'm excited about. I think that's Tim Simons show. I believe he's the star of it.

• 49:38Chris Ryan?

  Hitmaker is in it. Yes. I believe that's why it's a hit.

• 49:40Andy Greenwald?

  And the other thing that I do, because, you know, I gotta be me, is like, I also make sure that I have at least five or six three hour movies by obscure Japanese arthouse directors, like downloaded on my Criterion app.

• 49:52Chris Ryan?

  Do you really?

• 49:53Andy Greenwald?

  Always. The mood may strike me somewhere over Greenland to like, to, to, to finally delve into like Wheel of Fortune and Fantasy, or whatever that movie is called, by the guy who may drive my car.

• 50:03Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 50:03Andy Greenwald?

  This, this could be, this could be my moment.

• 50:06Chris Ryan?

  Hamaguchi, right?

• 50:07Andy Greenwald?

  Yes.

• 50:07Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 50:09Andy Greenwald?

  So, yeah, I guess, and then to your point, I think this question derived from the fact that you asked if I was rocking the Geese record yet, and I have dabbled, but I also already decided.

• 50:21Chris Ryan?

  I'm really, you've got a little bit of a thing going right now where I feel like you're not unlike Detective Grosso, withholding your essence from me.

• 50:31Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, with this record?

• 50:32Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Like, you've got me, I'm like, do you want to talk about Geese? Do you want to talk about one battle after another? And you're like, yeah.

• 50:39Andy Greenwald?

  I do want to talk about one battle after another.

• 50:40Chris Ryan?

  But even on Big Pick, I felt like you were kind of like, it was a very, it was a very timely film.

• 50:45Andy Greenwald?

  Well, also, listen, I walked into that, a little behind the scenes thing. I walked into the Big Pick thing. They'd been talking about the movie for all of last week and all of like two hours before I got in there. And I came in cold. I didn't know what they had already said, you know, I, I wasn't setting the tone.

• 50:59Chris Ryan?

  Right. So listening to the big picture is not on your list of things that you.

• 51:02Andy Greenwald?

  First of all, let's be honest, do you know how many, you know, you know, the kind of work Shield is putting into Philly Special and the Ringer NFL show? Literally spend more time in the car with him than my children.

• 51:12Chris Ryan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 51:13Andy Greenwald?

  But also I had only just seen the movie, so I hadn't rewatched the episode. So I didn't know the conversation. So I was more muted because I didn't want to like step on the things they'd already said. When it comes to Geese, I feel like I'm being respectful of, of the true art because I love all the singles. I love everything about this band up to this point. And I also know this, this record enough that I. I am not really locked into it when I'm trying to make the turn at Rowena.

• 51:37Chris Ryan?

  Sure.

• 51:38Andy Greenwald?

  Like, I feel like I need to get on an airplane and then be like, okay, boys.

• 51:43Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. What do you, what do you have to tell me about Greenland?

• 51:45Andy Greenwald?

  Please tell me something about being alive.

• 51:48Chris Ryan?

  Keep this plane in the air, brother.

• 51:49Andy Greenwald?

  Well, please, let's do that. Do you, do you either have suggestions of things you think I should preload in my library? Think time well spent, or do you, because in terms of books, you asked me too, like I have.

• 52:00Chris Ryan?

  Right now, you find me at a moment of a crisis of faith with music. First of all, like.

• 52:04Andy Greenwald?

  Because you're reading all the spirituality.

• 52:06Chris Ryan?

  No, but the, I think that my likely undiagnosed ADHD, well, I mean, it's definitely undiagnosed, but whatever it is.

• 52:14Andy Greenwald?

  You're like boy cavalier.

• 52:15Chris Ryan?

  No, I think it's just like, whatever, uh, personal issues I have with focus have met a moment now. Where, uh, too much shit is available to me.

• 52:25Andy Greenwald?

  At all times.

• 52:25Chris Ryan?

  At all times. So if I'm in the car and I'm like, what I'm gonna do now is finally listen to the first five can albums.

• 52:34Andy Greenwald?

  Now is the time.

• 52:35Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. And then I'm like, I don't really want to do this. And then I, you know, and I, you just wind up being like, but what I am gonna do is listen to the first five, listen to Williams albums again. You know, and then I just don't even know how to be anymore sometimes with music. That's why when I come across something, whether it's Geese or that Realize record from earlier in the year.

• 52:54Andy Greenwald?

  That's the truth.

• 52:55Chris Ryan?

  Where I'm just like, this is all I want to think about. And so Geese has been on constant repeat. I will say it has been heartwarming to see Geese have left the nest and they are migrating towards fucking big band right now. Which is in a way that I haven't really seen since probably.

• 53:15Chris Ryan?

  I mean, I'm gonna date myself, but I guess like 1975, this happened to, I guess this happened to Arctic Monkeys like 15 years ago or whatever. But like, you can tell like, you know, Killian Murphy is like, I fucking love geese and my son loves geese, you know, and like they're, they're big now.

• 53:31Andy Greenwald?

  Well, they made a big record. Like they went for it. They're awesome.

• 53:34Chris Ryan?

  They made a cool record.

• 53:35Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, they did.

• 53:36Chris Ryan?

  And it's cool that it's their third record and it's not exactly like, it's not like they made a record for mass approval. They make Born in the USA. They made.

• 53:45Andy Greenwald?

  It's a weird record.

• 53:46Chris Ryan?

  A fucking weird record that sounds like Frank Zappa and Van Morrison and, you know what I mean?

• 53:51Andy Greenwald?

  Like Kenny Beats on the decks.

• 53:53Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, with like real swing.

• 53:55Andy Greenwald?

  Do you know the common thread between us and the band Geese?

• 53:59Chris Ryan?

  We all went to Quaker schools. Yeah.

• 54:02Andy Greenwald?

  Can't fake the funk.

• 54:03Chris Ryan?

  If you're, if you're still, if you're, if you're still reading this, it's not too late.

• 54:06Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. It's the light within.

• 54:08Chris Ryan?

  Um, so yeah, I, I, my music listening is all over the place. And then I think,

• 54:16Chris Ryan?

  um, I'm, I just, I just find it really like comforting now to try and watch as many like of the, the DVDs that I'm buying.

• 54:26Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, that's a whole other thing. I don't know where you find time for that.

• 54:29Chris Ryan?

  Uh, night.

• 54:31Andy Greenwald?

  Time, that's when I'm asleep.

• 54:33Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Um, and then, yeah, reading wise, you bring books or do you buy books there?

• 54:38Andy Greenwald?

  Um, both. I have to bring a couple of books, uh, for work, I would say.

• 54:42Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 54:42Andy Greenwald?

  Um, things that.

• 54:44Chris Ryan?

  How does magic work?

• 54:45Andy Greenwald?

  Things you know about, but also things you don't know about, but I have to bring those. And then, um, we, we've both been loving, we mentioned this in the other show, the, the spy fiction of, uh, what's his name? Oliver Harris.

• 54:56Chris Ryan?

  Oliver Harris. Yeah. This is a Zach Baron recommendation.

• 54:59Andy Greenwald?

  A Shadow Intelligence is the first book in his spy series, and I love it so much that I'm savoring it. And I'm intentionally saving, reading it slowly. So I have it with me on the plane and I can get the sequel.

• 55:09Chris Ryan?

  Ascension.

• 55:10Andy Greenwald?

  Uh, over there.

• 55:10Chris Ryan?

  You want me to give it to you or no?

• 55:11Andy Greenwald?

  No, I'll go to Daunt. I'll walk over to Daunt Books and grab it. It's my new, my other life.

• 55:16Chris Ryan?

  If you're looking for Andy.

• 55:16Andy Greenwald?

  My shadow, shadow intelligence life. But like, the thing I would say about this book, and maybe we'll talk more about it. Well, we, it's unfair to do book talk without Kaya because she's an essential part of it when we, when we do this on the podcast.

• 55:27Chris Ryan?

  I think she also is a good counterbalance to some of her tastes.

• 55:29Andy Greenwald?

  She's given me some good recommendations recently.

• 55:31Chris Ryan?

  I know.

• 55:33Andy Greenwald?

  I, I know this is a little bit niche and maybe not everyone would vibe to this, but this book, it's about a, a, a spy, an MI6 agent. And it's incredibly interior, like it's all told from his perspective as he comes in from the cold and then goes back out into the cold. Like without cover, basically.

• 55:49Chris Ryan?

  Literally the cold because he goes to Kazakhstan.

• 55:51Andy Greenwald?

  He goes from the Middle East, back to London briefly, then into Kazakhstan. And you're just locked in this guy's complicated head as he walks through sub-zero conditions in like an artificial capital built on the.

• 56:02Chris Ryan?

  You may be thinking, I don't know a lot about Kazakhstan. You will.

• 56:05Andy Greenwald?

  You sure will. The thing that this book reminds me, the two writers that, that, that this book reminds me. Of is Licarre, obviously, British spy stuff, but also Haruki Murakami, which is such a weird pull for this, but my favorite Murakami books are all about kind of weird blank men wandering wintry environments.

• 56:24Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, and like, like Mariots and looking at the steel paradise of a city that's just been built.

• 56:29Andy Greenwald?

  I asked for my third beer. And it's like, that might be me. You never know.

• 56:34Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 56:35Andy Greenwald?

  So I, God, that was a great rec by Zach. I love, I love, love, love that book.

• 56:39Chris Ryan?

  Um, cool.

• 56:41Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah, cool, right?

• 56:42Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Uh, I mean, it's, it's very, it's always difficult when you fly to England because the bookshops there are so great. They also have shit on paperback that you're like, you know, it's not out here on paperback yet.

• 56:53Andy Greenwald?

  See me rocking Percival Everett's James in paperback earlier in the year. People are like, where'd you cop that?

• 56:58Chris Ryan?

  That's right. Um, I'm currently reading, I think I've mentioned, I'm reading Falling Upward by Richard Rohr, which is unlike most books I read.

• 57:07Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 57:07Chris Ryan?

  Uh, and I am rereading, although finding that I have very little recollection for Vineland.

• 57:15Andy Greenwald?

  Interesting. Yeah, I think I mentioned that.

• 57:16Chris Ryan?

  Vineland is fucking hysterical.

• 57:18Andy Greenwald?

  Vineland was with me in England, as we talked about last time.

• 57:20Chris Ryan?

  Yeah. Uh, I really, really, really want to read the new Ian McEwan novel.

• 57:27Andy Greenwald?

  That seems like, that might be the thing for us to go on a journey with our, our listeners on. I think that, I think we're, we're almost ready for that.

• 57:34Chris Ryan?

  Um, which I have to admit was like warmly endorsed by Anthony Jeselnik, the comedian, who really does not lead me wrong with his book recommendations.

• 57:42Andy Greenwald?

  Are you waiting for Malaney to be like, my recommendation is Ian McEwan?

• 57:46Chris Ryan?

  It's, it's, it's, it's a really, uh, it's a hot competition right now for, for guys recommending books to other guys.

• 57:54Andy Greenwald?

  I mean.

• 57:54Chris Ryan?

  How big can the playoffs be? It's like what the, the college football guys ask themselves, you know?

• 57:59Andy Greenwald?

  Is the world that bad when it's just guys recommending books to guys? Like, I know men are a problem generally, but like, this seems okay.

• 58:07Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, let us have this.

• 58:08Andy Greenwald?

  This seems okay.

• 58:11Andy Greenwald?

  Do you know, I did read, I did read Colored Television by Dan Zestana.

• 58:15Chris Ryan?

  You did mention that.

• 58:16Andy Greenwald?

  I mentioned that. I really recommend it. It's very, very well written. It's very, I mean, it is relevant to what we cover. And it's about an academic who decides to save her life and her future by selling out and working for television. I did read Creation Lake by Rachel Kushner. If you didn't know a lot about caves, you will.

• 58:35Chris Ryan?

  We talked about this, didn't we?

• 58:36Andy Greenwald?

  I don't know if we talked about how I was a little more mid than you, but I did enjoy the journey. I think she's like, she's the coolest hang. Reading the books are the coolest. I just, we really didn't come out of that cave, did we? Do you know what I read also is, is a book called Your Table Is Ready by Michael Chekki Azalina, and it's like the kitchen confidential for maîtrises.

• 58:56Chris Ryan?

  Ooh.

• 58:57Andy Greenwald?

  Because that's how much I care about.

• 58:58Chris Ryan?

  Restaurants?

• 58:59Andy Greenwald?

  Restaurants. And it is very entertaining because what if I told you he was a maîtrie de at Raoul's and the Water Club in the 80s into the 90s?

• 59:10Chris Ryan?

  Oh shit.

• 59:11Andy Greenwald?

  People used to get after it in restaurants. You know what I mean? Maybe they will again in vice presidency ours, America.

• 59:17Chris Ryan?

  Yeah.

• 59:18Andy Greenwald?

  But it is, it is quite body. That is a real, that is one that I regret.

• 59:23Chris Ryan?

  Is it like, like McInerney body or what is it?

• 59:27Andy Greenwald?

  Oh, yeah. Yes. It is, it's like, it's a tell-all kind of thing about a certain era of New York that I'll never get tired of. And I'll say that I wish I hadn't, I wish I hadn't read it in like a day and a half, a few weeks ago, because.

• 59:41Chris Ryan?

  How long is it?

• 59:42Andy Greenwald?

  It's like 300, 400 pages, but it flies. It wasn't a day. Oh, it was three days. But it's very, very readable.

• 59:47Chris Ryan?

  I was just impressed.

• 59:48Andy Greenwald?

  It's very, very readable, but it is also the kind of book that I wish, I mostly read fiction, as you know, but like, one of life's great pleasures is holding a book, a nonfiction book that you know you could just devour for a long plane ride. Like Bill Buford's Dirt about like, learning how to cook in France. That was an entire friend's oceanic flight.

• 1:00:08Chris Ryan?

  Yes. I need, like, I don't think you can do, Pinch It on a Flight is Tough, right? But I think you can, you can bang out some spy fiction or even read some nonfiction.

• 1:00:17Andy Greenwald?

  Do you think this part's gonna get clipped for Instagram? Pinch It on a Flight is Tough, guys.

• 1:00:23Andy Greenwald?

  We gotta be us.

• 1:00:23Chris Ryan?

  I don't really know what the clip would be from this, this episode because it's just been a free flowing conversation between two friends, talking about culture, talking about reading, talking about Pete Hegseth.

• 1:00:33Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah. The real lion in the lioness's den.

• 1:00:36Chris Ryan?

  I wish you well.

• 1:00:37Andy Greenwald?

  Thank you.

• 1:00:37Chris Ryan?

  This is actually the last time I'm going to see you, so I will see you soon. In another place.

• 1:00:43Andy Greenwald?

  That sounds worrisome, but I think I know the place.

• 1:00:47Chris Ryan?

  And I will be back on Monday with you.

• 1:00:49Andy Greenwald?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:50Chris Ryan?

  Recorded today, we're going to be talking about the fifth episode of Task.

• 1:00:52Andy Greenwald?

  I'm not missing Task Talk as we go forward.

• 1:00:54Chris Ryan?

  Yeah, okay. Um, everybody be well.

• 1:00:57Andy Greenwald?

  I, I'm still connected to the muggle world.

• 1:00:59Chris Ryan?

  Thanks to Kai, thanks to Kaya, thanks to everybody. We'll be back.

• 1:01:02Andy Greenwald?

  Thanks to all my American Baranskis out there. We'll see you soon.

• 1:01:13Speaker 01

  This is US Bank's Cozy Cash Formations with your chief financial playmaker, Fernando Mendoza.

• 1:01:20Speaker 04

  You are worthy of financial security. Budgeting is not restriction, it's freedom. You are smart, you are capable, you are giving your money a purpose. You are learning the language of saving, of growing, now streaming. Member FDIC, copyright 2026 US Bank. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. Fall is here and Whole Foods Market has everything you need for cozy meals, seasonal treats and easy entertaining. Elevate your hearty dishes with tasty bone in beef short ribs or New York strip steaks with no added growth hormones or antibiotics. And as the fall evenings draw in, why not get ahead of cold season with immunity shots, herbal teas, lozenges and supplements?

• 1:02:05Speaker 04

  Make sure you look for sales throughout the month. Shop fall flavors with higher standards at Whole Foods Market.