The man behind Bitcoin and the return of 'Shaq Fu'

The Vergecast is a discussion of all things relevant and irreverent in the worlds of art, culture, science, and technology — and anything else that pops into the twisted minds of this week's hosts. Join Joshua Topolsky, Katie Drummond, and T. C. Sottek for a discussion on the reported uncovering of the man behind Bitcoin, LSD therapy, and the return of Shaq Fu. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:21Speaker 00

  Hey and welcome to The Vergecast for the week of March 3rd, 2014. I'm Josh Topolsky.

• 0:27Speaker 01

  I'm TC Sodik and I've been forced here against my will.

• 0:31Speaker 02

  I'm Katie Drummond and same thing. I did not volunteer for this.

• 0:34Speaker 00

  Did I say this was the Vergecast? I meant it's the prisoner cast.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Please help.

• 0:38Speaker 00

  Seriously, this hair is out of control today. It's fine. This is the first time I've seen it and it sucks. Look at this. It's like 1980. The year is 1988. Michael Keaton is preparing for his role in Batman, Tim Burton's Batman, and this is my hair.

• 0:55Speaker 01

  You know it'll fix that hair.

• 0:56Speaker 00

  Anyhow, this is The Vergecast where we discuss the week in topics of interest to you. Maybe, or maybe not. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter because we're gonna talk about them anyhow. You can't stop us. TC and Katie are here, which I'm very excited about. Katie doesn't want to be here against her wishes.

• 1:14Speaker 02

  No, it's fine. I'm happy to do it.

• 1:15Speaker 00

  Oh, and we're classing it up. These guys got to have a plan. I came in and they're like, "We're gonna class it up with a bottle of wine." What is that? Tell us about this one.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  It's an Avalon Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon, 2011.

• 1:26Speaker 00

  Do you hear that pronunciation? That's because Katie-

• 1:28Speaker 02

  That's somebody who drinks a lot of wine.

• 1:29Speaker 00

  It's because Katie is not only a wine drinker-

• 1:32Speaker 01

  But a Canadian.

• 1:33Speaker 00

  But a Canadian who is a native French speaker.

• 1:36Speaker 02

  True.

• 1:37Speaker 00

  Is that true?

• 1:37Speaker 02

  C'est vrai. Yes.

• 1:40Speaker 00

  Of course, as we know, the Canadian variation of French is quite guttural in its sound, but no, I'm kidding.

• 1:48Speaker 02

  Animal.

• 1:49Speaker 00

  It's like animal grunting. No, it's a beautiful language and a beautiful people.

• 1:54Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:55Speaker 00

  And so wonderful that we have one of them on the show today.

• 1:58Speaker 02

  Thank you so much.

• 1:59Speaker 00

  Just I'm riffing. I came from a doctor's appointment, a baby doctor appointment. Let me tell you about the baby.

• 2:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  It is in fact a baby.

• 2:06Speaker 00

  Baby's great.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  It's confirmed today.

• 2:08Speaker 00

  Did I talk? I don't know what those sounds I just made were not actual sounds. Did I tell everybody the name of my baby? I don't know if I want to dox my baby.

• 2:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I didn't want to do it.

• 2:16Speaker 00

  I'm not gonna dox my baby.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  The baby's name is-

• 2:17Speaker 00

  Don't say it.

• 2:18Speaker 02

  It's private.

• 2:19Speaker 00

  It's private for right now.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  The baby's name is Satoshi Nakamoto.

• 2:22Speaker 00

  My baby has been doxed. She is the creator of Bitcoin.

• 2:27Speaker 00

  Uh, okay. So this is a story to be-

• 2:29Speaker 02

  And aggressively doxed.

• 2:30Speaker 00

  Aggressively doxed by, but that's okay. Reddit's gonna get back at those people, at that writer. So really interesting story in Newsweek today. They claim that, that it has discovered the true Satoshi Nakamoto, the creator of Bitcoin. But the story is really weird because it doesn't actually provide any, there's no evidence whatsoever, besides like the name and some coincidences.

• 2:54Speaker 02

  I mean-

• 2:54Speaker 01

  He's like a libertarian.

• 2:55Speaker 00

  There's no smoking gun. They're like, he likes computers and he hates the government.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  He's a Ron Paul stalker.

• 3:00Speaker 02

  Well, I think that's a little bit-

• 3:02Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 3:02Speaker 02

  Of a flip reaction. I mean, I think coincidences, it's like a series of, of pretty compelling, you know, a pretty compelling timeline and some pretty compelling facts.

• 3:15Speaker 00

  You're trying to bal- you're trying to balance this opening of the wine with, no, okay.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  This is not a very compelling one.

• 3:20Speaker 00

  No, no, no. The story is actually really interesting and I agree, though. It is like, as I read through it, I wish there had been one thing there where I was like, yes, definitely, slam dunk.

• 3:28Speaker 02

  Well, what about the, sorry.

• 3:30Speaker 00

  No, go ahead.

• 3:31Speaker 02

  What about the quote from him where he, it sounds like said something along the lines of, I'm no longer involved with that. It's been handed off to other people. I really like want to be a private person.

• 3:41Speaker 00

  I don't know. I feel like, yes, that's kind of a smoking gun. It all feels-

• 3:44Speaker 02

  And you know, that combined with his name.

• 3:46Speaker 00

  It all feels a lot like a plot from The Good Wife, as far as I'm concerned.

• 3:50Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm on season two right now.

• 3:51Speaker 00

  Oh, my God.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  It's great.

• 3:52Speaker 00

  Oh, I don't want to, I don't want to ruin it for you, but there is a Bitcoin plot.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, it kind of seems like this guy just like was a nerd who created this thing with his real name on it.

• 4:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  But then like, because nobody knew who he was, it became this big conspiracy theory.

• 4:03Speaker 00

  Well, what is the, what is the saying that it's, um, it's, uh-

• 4:06Speaker 02

  I'll serve myself first over here.

• 4:07Speaker 00

  It's never, never, uh, it's like, don't assume something is highly complex when it's actually probably pretty stupid.

• 4:14Speaker 01

  The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence?

• 4:16Speaker 00

  No, that's not it. And it's not the other one, which is like-

• 4:19Speaker 02

  That sounded really smart.

• 4:19Speaker 00

  It's not the one where if you eliminate, if you eliminate all possibilities, whatever remains, however, you know, but it's not that. But it's something, I'm sure, just tweet at me if you know what I'm saying, but there's this saying, which is, uh, this is exciting. It does feel classy.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  Cheers.

• 4:33Speaker 00

  It does feel, yeah, hold on, wait, let's all cheers. Can I have-

• 4:35Speaker 02

  Thank you to Avalon.

• 4:37Speaker 00

  No, don't thank you to Avalon. We paid for the wine. Avalon did provide us with wine.

• 4:42Speaker 02

  I'm making them for me tonight.

• 4:43Speaker 00

  Are you cheersing for me?

• 4:43Speaker 01

  I was gonna double fist.

• 4:44Speaker 00

  Let's do a little, let's do a little, to a, to a more classy-

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Coming underneath.

• 4:48Speaker 00

  Uh, experience.

• 4:49Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 4:50Speaker 00

  All right. Bottoms up.

• 4:54Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 4:56Speaker 00

  What a great mouth feel.

• 4:57Speaker 02

  I like that.

• 4:59Speaker 00

  It goes perfectly with the mouthwash I just swished with 20 minutes ago before leaving the house. Very, very bold.

• 5:08Speaker 02

  Tastes a little cheap at the end.

• 5:09Speaker 00

  Yeah. Has a finish of a stingy jerk.

• 5:15Speaker 00

  Like somebody, somebody like, you know, asking for more, you're splitting a check and they're asking for more money than they're putting in. Anyhow.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  Thanks to Ross Miller, our in-house sommelier.

• 5:24Speaker 00

  Yeah. Ross, great job-ish, great-ish job.

• 5:28Speaker 02

  It'll do.

• 5:31Speaker 02

  It'll do, Ross.

• 5:31Speaker 00

  I have to say, if, if, I'm sorry if you're listening to this or watching this right now, because it can't be entertaining, but I think it's relatively entertaining to us. So anyhow, the Bitcoin story. Now, the interesting follow-on to this is not that they have potentially discovered this guy who is Occam's razor, is what everybody's saying, is the thing. What is the actual, like, rule, though? I'm trying to remember the wording of it and I can't. This is what people are tweeting at me right now.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  Occam's razor?

• 5:55Speaker 00

  Yeah. What's Occam's razor?

• 5:57Speaker 02

  I can't remember.

• 5:57Speaker 00

  People like, literally, it's just coming in. I keep seeing this, this alert that people are like, Occam's razor. So, so immediately after Satoshi Nakamoto was doxxed by this writer, Reddit took to action, flew into action, ready to dox the address, the home address, social security number and phone number of the writer for doing, it was a woman, right? What is her name?

• 6:25Speaker 02

  Leah McGrath Goodman.

• 6:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, for doing her job as a reporter. Like, this is what reporting is. It's like, you don't, you don't know something.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  There's some legitimate ethical concerns.

• 6:34Speaker 00

  Are there?

• 6:35Speaker 01

  That were brought up. Yeah, because she went, she went undercover. She misrepresented her identity.

• 6:39Speaker 00

  You're on Reddit, you're like, let's get her.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  No, I mean, first of all, I'm so sick of Reddit.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm over it.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  I'm sick of their sanctimonious bullshit about anonymity.

• 6:49Speaker 00

  It's like 4chan with like a

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Persistence.

• 6:52Speaker 00

  An agenda or something.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  It's like 4chan that where the messages don't go well.

• 6:55Speaker 00

  It's like 4chan if you're for Ron Paul supporters.

• 6:59Speaker 02

  But I don't know. I mean, I read this. I read this first thing this morning and just as a reader, it made me feel a little bit uncomfortable. And I think that's, I mean, this is

• 7:07Speaker 00

  Great journalism is supposed to make you feel uncomfortable.

• 7:10Speaker 02

  I was gonna say that, but

• 7:12Speaker 00

  I don't, that's not a rule, by the way.

• 7:13Speaker 02

  It's just like the showing up at someone's house when they don't want you there. It always, there's something about it that just doesn't appeal to me as a, as a reader or as a reporter even.

• 7:23Speaker 00

  I think the question is like, if this guy were responsible for like some kind of crime, then you could get, you get a little more behind it. I don't have a problem with it because it's, the story needs to, story needs to happen. Like we need to just discover who this person is and get over it.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, the question is like, is this information in the public interest? Like, is there a compelling need for people to know who the guy is?

• 7:41Speaker 02

  And I have read that argument today.

• 7:43Speaker 00

  I think there's an argument for that. I think there's an argument. I mean, I think that, I don't think it's a great argument, but I think you can make one. I think it would be tough to say like, no, this is not in the public's interest to know this. I mean, you know, when you get right down to it, we're talking about potentially a emergent currency or commodity and, you know, it would be good to know where it came from, like.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  But why?

• 8:09Speaker 00

  I don't know.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  You know?

• 8:10Speaker 00

  I don't have an answer for that.

• 8:11Speaker 02

  Like this guy just wants to live his life privately with his family in California. I don't really see what public good it does.

• 8:19Speaker 00

  Well, it's his fault for creating a cryptocurrency that took off. I mean, that's what happens when you become, he shouldn't have used his real name if he didn't want to be found. That's what I'd have done, pseudonym. It's what everybody thought it was. You don't want to be discovered? Don't put your name on it.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  I mean, a lot of factors, like he, he might've had no idea that it would get as big as it is today.

• 8:35Speaker 00

  I mean, when I write all my hate speech on the internet, I use a pseudonym because I don't want it to get back to me. My, my thousands and thousands of pages of hate speech that you don't know about.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  Joshua Ryan.

• 8:47Speaker 00

  DJ Joshua Ryan.

• 8:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, no. I, I, I see the argument, but I also think it's a really interesting story. And I think that people have been asking this question for a long time. And also, he put his name on it. And I think that if the name was like, you know, Dr. X, it would be, you know, you might go looking for the guy, but it would be much harder to find him. Something said, something tells me that at some point, he maybe wanted to be found.

• 9:11Speaker 02

  Well, that's, and that's the other thing is that he has how many hundreds of millions of dollars worth of Bitcoin that he couldn't cash in because it would have dosed him?

• 9:20Speaker 00

  No. Would it have? That's not the point of it?

• 9:23Speaker 02

  That's what I've been reading today a lot.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  Well, Bitcoin transactions are not like perfectly anonymous. Like if someone really wants to find out who you are, they could do that.

• 9:31Speaker 00

  He would have like a lot of Bitcoin and a

• 9:35Speaker 02

  He has a lot.

• 9:36Speaker 00

  And he would be very, he would stand out in a crowd in terms of Bitcoin transactions.

• 9:39Speaker 01

  So the argument is like, he doesn't, he's not, he's not like a Bill Gates or like a Steve, well, whoever.

• 9:43Speaker 02

  He has 1.5 million Bitcoin.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  Right. That's not, that's not like liquid cash and the guy is just living, you know, in a ran, like a random house.

• 9:51Speaker 00

  What's the value of 1.5 million Bitcoin?

• 9:53Speaker 02

  Uh, its current value is $645.

• 9:56Speaker 00

  You mean at a one Bitcoin?

• 9:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:58Speaker 00

  So what's that? 645 dollars times 1.5 million? Dude, cash this in now.

• 10:04Speaker 02

  Almost, what, almost a billion, billion dollars?

• 10:07Speaker 00

  I just would just say, just cash it in right?

• 10:08Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, you're done.

• 10:09Speaker 00

  Just, just get your billion.

• 10:11Speaker 02

  Buy an island.

• 10:12Speaker 00

  Just get your billion and invest it in something like solvent.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  And then you can buy some security guards.

• 10:17Speaker 00

  That's crazy, by the way.

• 10:19Speaker 01

  It is.

• 10:20Speaker 00

  That's cra- but here's what's crazy about it. He was like, hey, what if I created a currency? And now he has a billion dollars worth of it. And it's three years later or something. It's not like, you know, what, how long has it been around?

• 10:31Speaker 01

  And not just him, but there were other people like early on who were just like, y'all spent 10 bucks on Bitcoin when it was nothing. And now they have millions.

• 10:37Speaker 00

  I had, I had, it's funny. Somebody tweeted me. They're like, you, you like, do you have a bunch of Bitcoin? You guys write about it so much. Like, I don't have any Bitcoin. But like, in the early days of Bitcoin, I had a friend who was overseas and he was like explaining Bitcoin to me. And he's like, here, I'll show you how it works. Like get this set up and I'll send you a Bitcoin. It was when it was worth like $2 or less or something. And then recently, and I just had it sitting there, one Bitcoin. And it was like recently when it was worth a thousand dollars. He's like, hey, can I um, can I get that Bitcoin back from you? I literally had to get a laptop out of my closet from like three years ago and open it up and like update stuff and find the software and like just get, give him his Bitcoin back.

• 11:16Speaker 02

  Oh, so you gave it back?

• 11:17Speaker 00

  Of course. I mean, it wasn't mine.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  Well, it was.

• 11:20Speaker 00

  No, I was just holding it.

• 11:21Speaker 01

  Possession is ten tenths of the law.

• 11:23Speaker 02

  You were holding it.

• 11:23Speaker 00

  I mean, that would have been really messed up. I was like, nope.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, well.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  Would it? He gave it to you as a gift.

• 11:28Speaker 00

  No, he gave it to me as a, to demonstrate how Bitcoin functioned.

• 11:32Speaker 02

  Well, his mistake.

• 11:34Speaker 00

  I should have kept it. Like, now I got this thousand bucks.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 11:38Speaker 00

  Crazy shopping spree.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  Could have gotten a sweet haircut.

• 11:40Speaker 00

  It had been like in Big, when he gets like the loft and the arcade machine and he gets like some kind of crazy car. He gets like go karts. It would have been just like that, except for a thousand dollars worth. So it would have been like me getting a bunch of sandwiches at a bodega.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  It was like that. Remember that movie with that kid who just found a million dollars?

• 11:54Speaker 02

  Richie Rich?

• 11:54Speaker 01

  No, not Richie Rich.

• 11:56Speaker 00

  I haven't seen either one of those.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  Different movie where the kid just found like a million dollars.

• 11:58Speaker 00

  The one directed by Danny Boyle, director of Twenty Eight Days Later.

• 12:02Speaker 01

  What was it called?

• 12:03Speaker 00

  Blank Check?

• 12:04Speaker 01

  Blank Check.

• 12:04Speaker 02

  Blank Check is so good.

• 12:06Speaker 00

  John in the control room like, he's like, that's my favorite.

• 12:08Speaker 01

  Blank Check trailer.

• 12:09Speaker 02

  That is a great movie.

• 12:10Speaker 00

  Never seen it, never heard of it.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  This kid just like finds a million dollars in this botched robbery.

• 12:15Speaker 00

  What's, what actors are these? Is he right here?

• 12:17Speaker 01

  He buys like twenty million dollars worth of stuff.

• 12:19Speaker 02

  It was, it was with some cutie little heartthrob.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, here it is.

• 12:22Speaker 02

  It's from nineteen ninety-four, so I was.

• 12:23Speaker 00

  I'm sorry, did you refer to this nine year old as a heartthrob?

• 12:25Speaker 02

  I was nine, I was nine years old when this came out. I was nine.

• 12:28Speaker 00

  If a man had said that about a girl, boy, the cops would be in here right now.

• 12:32Speaker 02

  He was like the, like Macaulay Culkin, like B-list edition.

• 12:36Speaker 00

  Who is he? It's probably Stephen Dorff or something.

• 12:39Speaker 02

  Brian Bon-sal?

• 12:40Speaker 00

  Oh, Brian, Brian Bon-sal. Is it Bon-sal or Bon-sai?

• 12:44Speaker 02

  Brian Bon-sal?

• 12:46Speaker 00

  Don't know either one of those people.

• 12:47Speaker 02

  He's a former child actor.

• 12:49Speaker 00

  Oh wait, he was in a TV show.

• 12:52Speaker 02

  He played the part Klingon, part human son of Worf on Star Trek.

• 12:55Speaker 00

  That's the show that he was in. I'm very familiar with this actor and very familiar with one of his most beloved characters.

• 13:03Speaker 02

  He is retired from acting.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  Such a shame.

• 13:05Speaker 02

  He has no interest. Oh, he's had some substance abuse problems.

• 13:08Speaker 00

  Well, he was a child actor. That kind of goes with the territory.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:10Speaker 00

  They hand you, when you, when you get your first contract as a child actor, they also hand you a crack pipe.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:14Speaker 00

  They're like, you'll need this to just get through, get through the next year.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  That's effed up.

• 13:18Speaker 00

  Is it? Why is that effed up? You know, it's true. Look at Lindsay Lohan.

• 13:22Speaker 02

  This is so sad.

• 13:22Speaker 00

  Have you seen Lindsay Lohan has a new.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  Oh, the Oprah funded documentary.

• 13:26Speaker 00

  Documentary. Well, it's like, it's a reality show. But it's like, it's like a little bit more classy. So it's like a documentary.

• 13:32Speaker 02

  Watch it with that. We only have one bottle.

• 13:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, take it easy. We know how you like to hit the wine. Am I right? Uh, this guy's Instagram.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  Stop doxing.

• 13:38Speaker 00

  It's like looking at a liquor store.

• 13:39Speaker 01

  Don't doxing my Instagram.

• 13:40Speaker 00

  This guy's Instagram is like, it's like, uh, hey, check out what we got on the shelves of our liquor store.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  Quit doxing me.

• 13:44Speaker 00

  I'm like, wait a second. This is TC's house.

• 13:48Speaker 00

  It's upsetting, disturbing, and I'm worried about him. Uh, anyhow, so, so maybe the creator of Bitcoin has been revealed and also it's extremely mundane.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:57Speaker 00

  It's not, it's not like a conspiracy. It's not a, uh, uh, it's not a shocker.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  Really gets me is like, there's definitely a balance somewhere, but if all you do is read Reddit, it's like, if you unveil someone, their real identity, you're literally like worse than Hitler.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  They get so mad. Their jimmies get really rustled.

• 14:18Speaker 00

  What is it? Except when it's like, when you're trying to find the Boston bomber that it's.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 14:22Speaker 00

  Safety's off, fire at will. If you're looking for a brown guy, no problem, but it, but if you, you know, it's like, I, I don't know. I mean, I think it's a real double standard on Reddit.

• 14:33Speaker 02

  Well, you know.

• 14:34Speaker 00

  It's not like they have like some law books, some rules. They're like, hey, this is how we do it on Reddit.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  No, they do have rules. It's like, no doxing is like their number one.

• 14:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, right. And they like ban, and they're, yeah, I'm sure we're gonna get, we'll be get banned for talking about it, about Reddit, on Reddit. That's what they, that's what they love to do.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  They're gonna dox me.

• 14:47Speaker 00

  These are, these are compromised journalists because they don't like Reddit.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  They're gonna find the name of my, my EverQuest character. And look at my

• 14:56Speaker 00

  You mean, I'm trying to think of a cool name for an EverQuest character. I didn't have anything at all.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  I'll never tell.

• 15:02Speaker 00

  What is it? Give me a name. Don't give me the actual name, but give me the kind of name you might give to an EverQuest character.

• 15:06Speaker 01

  Like a

• 15:07Speaker 00

  Like Greyhorn? Greyhorn?

• 15:10Speaker 01

  Greyhorn?

• 15:10Speaker 00

  Yeah. Like Lothar Greyhorn? Something like that.

• 15:15Speaker 01

  You've obviously played.

• 15:18Speaker 00

  I'm a level 400. Can you get to 400?

• 15:22Speaker 01

  No.

• 15:22Speaker 00

  All right. Anyhow, moving on. What's our next topic? I mean, for God's sake, this is definitely a different pace to this.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:29Speaker 00

  Than the last one and to any past.

• 15:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  A more boring case?

• 15:34Speaker 01

  No, it's all right.

• 15:35Speaker 00

  Occam's razor, by the way.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  We're a little more on topic.

• 15:37Speaker 00

  We consider it a good principle to explain the phenomenon by the simplest hypothesis of it possible.

• 15:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a really like layman's explanation.

• 15:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't like this.

• 15:46Speaker 00

  Kind of works. Okay. What else in the news? Oh, this is speaking of Bitcoin.

• 15:51Speaker 02

  Oh, yes.

• 15:53Speaker 00

  Adrian Jeffries did, I think, a really excellent report this week on the Lakota tribe creating its own, it's called Mazakoin, its own cryptocurrency for Native American tribes, for that particular tribe. And they're basically saying like, look, we're a sovereign nation. We have a right to have our own currency. It's not covered under the laws, the laws of the federal government, you know, and how, you know, we regulate currency. And we're going on our own on this one. And they're basically like, yeah, we're, it's like, we're going to battle the US government for whether or not we can have our own currency. How do you think this will turn out?

• 16:33Speaker 01

  I mean, the government has said like, like a lot of different regulators have said, well,

• 16:39Speaker 01

  we're not really responsible for this. So I think it'll, I don't think it's going to come up for a little while.

• 16:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:44Speaker 02

  And I mean, I think, as Adrian pointed out really nicely in the piece, like they depend on a lot of money from the federal government. And I mean, that's a huge problem.

• 16:53Speaker 00

  Right.

• 16:53Speaker 02

  But there is a concern that introducing this threatens to diminish the amount of money that they're receiving through that channel.

• 16:59Speaker 00

  The situation is insane. I mean, let's just be clear. The whole concept of Native American tribes in like the United States of America is completely bizarre and not really a

• 17:13Speaker 00

  Nothing, none of it seems possible.

• 17:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was just gonna say, it seems very like hard to wrap your head around the fact that this is actually a situation.

• 17:20Speaker 00

  Right.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  And that sounds like a very ignorant New York thing to say.

• 17:23Speaker 00

  No, but it's, but it's, but it's completely, uh, it's completely reasonable to say because it's such a complex and impossible thing to do, which is like, they're like, yeah, oh, yeah. Hey, we stole your land and killed you and we're going to give you that back and you're going to be sovereign, but actually not really at all because we have all, we're entangled in all of these ways and you need things from us now. And it's like to, to detach those things at this point is just seems really.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, they're not even, they're, they're sovereign, but in limited ways.

• 17:53Speaker 00

  Right.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  They're still considered what's called domestic dependent.

• 17:57Speaker 00

  Right.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  Nations. So there, we don't even treat them like we do foreign nations. We treat them like children.

• 18:03Speaker 00

  Right. It's insane. It's insane. We're terrible. The, America's terrible, but also the greatest country in the world. Don't get me wrong. I love it. Love it or leave it. You know, these colors.

• 18:12Speaker 01

  No, it's a really interesting situation because it, it creates a unique, like, you know, you had Paul Krugman come out and talk about.

• 18:18Speaker 00

  Krug.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  Why Krugman? Krugman?

• 18:21Speaker 00

  It doesn't matter.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  I don't know. Uh, talk about how like Bitcoin's evil.

• 18:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:24Speaker 01

  And that was like the headline of his piece.

• 18:25Speaker 00

  Well, that was the headline of his piece, but his actual piece wasn't really about Bitcoin being.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  Right. And in a functioning like, uh, society and nation that already like has a government-backed currency, like sure, maybe that there are arguments to be made there, but there are really interesting reasons for why this could be valuable to different communities who don't have their own currency, who.

• 18:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:46Speaker 02

  Like keeping the money in the, in the community.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 18:49Speaker 00

  Well, I think it also is, is, um, you know, you could see a place for something like Bitcoin in a lot of, it's not just about like, oh, you know, they have this so, this sovereign state, but you can see, it's like this circumvents currency, you know? If you have enough people using it.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:07Speaker 00

  It becomes a currency unto itself. And, you know, there's a big question, I think, what, cause it's not physical. It's not backed by banks, you know, it's, I think it raises a lot of questions. This is interesting to me because if it could, if it could work. Within these communities, it seems like an incredible opportunity to see a cryptocurrency blossom as a day-to-day, verifiable, usable form of currency. I just don't see how the US government would ever allow that to truly happen.

• 19:37Speaker 02

  I mean, the other wrinkle in this is that it sounds like some of these people are using like paper printouts of Mazakoin and like a paper wallet.

• 19:45Speaker 00

  Sounds legit.

• 19:46Speaker 02

  You know, it just.

• 19:48Speaker 00

  That sounds legit to me.

• 19:49Speaker 02

  The logistics of it seem like an additional challenge there.

• 19:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:53Speaker 02

  It's not sort of a really easy-to-use digital, not that Bitcoin is particularly easy to use, I guess.

• 19:58Speaker 00

  No, it's not.

• 19:59Speaker 02

  It's all very difficult.

• 20:00Speaker 00

  And most likely, if you do use it, wherever your money is will be stolen. Like, nine times out of 10.

• 20:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, that's a big problem. There are like a lot of legitimate concerns about this, including like, you know, if the value fluctuates wildly, like, these communities are already so impoverished that that could be catastrophic.

• 20:16Speaker 00

  Exactly, yeah, really. I mean, the question is about Bitcoin or Mazakoin or any cryptocurrency is like, who, if there's no, if it's not backed by banks and institutions, like major institutions, who protects it? How do you protect it? Like, how do you pay for the things you need to protect it? And I don't think anybody has the answer right now. Like, Mt. Gox was not the best place for people to be keeping millions of dollars. I mean, he was run by like two guys.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  Should call it Mt. Docs.

• 20:46Speaker 00

  Get out.

• 20:46Speaker 02

  Good one.

• 20:47Speaker 00

  Just leave right now.

• 20:49Speaker 00

  But, you know, I just think it's a... This wine's almost gone, really tearing through it. My lips are so dry right now, it's so dry in New York.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  Here you go.

• 20:58Speaker 00

  Do you need balm? What do you got?

• 20:59Speaker 01

  Here you go.

• 21:00Speaker 00

  I don't want it, I don't know.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  Oh, it's so good, it's Carmex.

• 21:02Speaker 00

  No, Carmex is my brand, but I don't know.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  Nobody puts Carmex in their mouth, you put it on your finger and then you put it on your lips.

• 21:06Speaker 02

  It's the finger system.

• 21:07Speaker 00

  Strawberry? Are you kidding me, strawberry?

• 21:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, my girlfriend got that for me.

• 21:11Speaker 00

  It's funny, because actually, that's weird, because I just said to Laura, I was like, I was looking on Amazon, because I need to refill my Carmex supply.

• 21:18Speaker 02

  You buy an entire supply of Carmex on Amazon?

• 21:21Speaker 00

  Add-on item.

• 21:21Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 21:24Speaker 00

  And I was like, did you know Carmex has a strawberry? You don't mind if I do this?

• 21:27Speaker 01

  Please, be my guest.

• 21:29Speaker 00

  Uh huh, oh, oh wait, oh boy.

• 21:32Speaker 01

  Tastes good. It's got a good lip feel.

• 21:38Speaker 00

  This is a disaster. Can we end? Is it done? We hit an hour? Hmm. Oh, God. Ah. No one's watching. Zero viewers. Well, we can finally talk about what we want to talk about.

• 21:51Speaker 02

  TC.

• 21:52Speaker 00

  TC's drinking.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  Should we call our mom?

• 21:54Speaker 02

  What did you want to talk about next?

• 21:57Speaker 00

  You were talking about the hoverboard?

• 21:58Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. We need to talk about this stupid.

• 21:59Speaker 00

  Funnier Die. Funnier Die, they're amazing.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  Worst viral stunt in history.

• 22:03Speaker 00

  So what is it? Here's, okay, so has everybody seen this? It's, it's, um, Funnier Die created a fake viral video with a bunch of famous people about a real hoverboard. Now, first off, like,

• 22:13Speaker 00

  I can't believe anybody would have looked at this and thought, that's real.

• 22:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:16Speaker 00

  Like, the idea that you could create this, that this technology is some thing that somebody's working on in secret, and you're just gonna like, jam it out one day, is so ridiculously unbelievable, for starters. Because this CarMax is amazing.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's so good.

• 22:28Speaker 00

  But then, like, there's a bunch of, like, obvious tells in these videos. Um, and, uh, I mean, they're pretty well done, but still, seriously, like, you're gonna make it look like the one from Back to the Future. Um, which is definitely copyrighted in all kinds of ways. Like, that looks fake. That looks totally fake. I'm sorry. Um, anyhow, so it turned out to be a fake Funnier Die, um, viral video. And, uh, that's Moby.

• 22:55Speaker 02

  I mean, I'm, I'm confused. Did people actually, actually think this was a thing?

• 23:00Speaker 00

  Yes. Yes. Yes, they did.

• 23:03Speaker 02

  That's terrible.

• 23:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, the thing is, like, Funnier Die really, like, fucked it up.

• 23:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:07Speaker 01

  Because they, there was like two, or like, even a day went by, and they posted all these Facebook things being like, oh, it's real. No, we swear, it's real.

• 23:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  And then, like, immediately after that Funnier Die, instead of, like, milking it, like, what was their end game? Like, oh, we made it.

• 23:21Speaker 00

  I think their end game was, uh, would get, get views on Funnier Die videos.

• 23:25Speaker 01

  I guess.

• 23:25Speaker 00

  You know? I mean, this is, one of my greatest, one of the greatest tragedies of the internet in its current form, is that major brands and companies feel like they need to create viral sensations to have a viable business. I'm not gonna name names, but there are plenty of people out there who think it's part of their job to be part of, like, what is viral on the internet. And like, let me just tell you, brands with millions of dollars creating viral videos, you've ruined everything that is good about what is viral on the internet. You've basically taken something that is sacred and special and magical, and turned it into a bullshit garbage marketing campaign, and you've ruined the fun for everybody. Like, when you, when you with your million dollars create some sort of scheme to like dupe everybody, this goes for Jimmy Kimmel as well, who does the same stuff.

• 24:10Speaker 00

  It's like, I get that people are dumb and can be easily convinced of things that aren't real are real, convinced that things that aren't real are real, but, but like when you do it, particularly when like you're the kind of brand that not only will do the stunt, but then like, write about it or talk about it as if the stunt is a real thing, like you ruin what is one of the things that is best about the internet. And, um, you know, it's like really gross. Like, we actually went to RaffleCon, I think, two years ago, which was like a gathering of, of people who had become like viral sensations on the internet, the old way. The kids these days, the millennials now, they don't know what it's like anymore. But people used to become real viral sensations because like they did something stupid or awesome, or whatever, like were caught on camera doing something horrible,

• 24:54Speaker 00

  or created some weird piece of art, and it was like a real thing on the internet. People were like, oh my god, that's hilarious.

• 24:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 25:00Speaker 00

  Like Rick Rolling wasn't created by Mattel or whatever.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  Now, the worst is when like-

• 25:04Speaker 00

  Rick Roll, Rick Rolling wasn't like a CNN I report, you know, like, that was a thing that happened. That was like a thing that came from like the ephemera of reality. I don't know what that means. That doesn't mean anything. But you know, it bubbled up out of something natural, which is like where many of the greatest things come from. Most of the greatest things.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  Well, the worst is when the brands like on Twitter have their rapid response to like natural disasters.

• 25:26Speaker 00

  Oh, you mean like Oreo?

• 25:28Speaker 01

  Like, you know, 27 people get stabbed to death in China by Band-Aids, you know, like, that's not an actual thing. Sorry, sorry Band-Aid.

• 25:35Speaker 00

  But no, but what you just said is, a bunch of people got stabbed to death in China. We're living in a reality where it's possible. I'm not saying it happened or it will happen, but uh, it's possible that the company that makes Band-Aids, who is, it's probably Johnson and Johnson who makes Band-Aids, they're like- We're here, China, don't worry, or something like that, because that's what these stupid brands are doing. You've got it like, it's like a variety of things. Like, the thing I was telling you about is like, brands with millions of dollars creating fake viral sensations so they can like, be part, ultimately, marketing something either themselves or a product to make money off of the people who, who watch the stuff or see the stuff, who have like completely ruined the concept of like, what is like true viral, true virality on the internet in the sense of like,

• 26:16Speaker 00

  things that are created from the kind of dark heart of the internet, the weird place that you don't know where things come from. Like, who first made that joke? Like, that's, there used to be like, you, look, you,

• 26:27Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, here's, here's one.

• 26:29Speaker 00

  Even,

• 26:29Speaker 01

  Pornhub on Martin Luther King Day said, "Happy MLK Day in honor of his death. Make sure to only use the ebony category today."

• 26:38Speaker 00

  That's real?

• 26:38Speaker 01

  That's a real tweet.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  That went around.

• 26:41Speaker 00

  I mean, not like we expect Pornhub to be classy or something, like, just let's, let's baseline. Baseline Pornhub's not gonna be like,

• 26:47Speaker 02

  They really bottomed out there.

• 26:48Speaker 00

  That was, was that a pun?

• 26:50Speaker 02

  No.

• 26:50Speaker 00

  Bottomed out?

• 26:51Speaker 02

  No, like, hit, bottomed.

• 26:53Speaker 00

  But that's a pretty good pun, you've got to admit.

• 26:54Speaker 02

  I mean, anything could be a pun right now.

• 26:55Speaker 00

  Not really, I mean,

• 26:56Speaker 02

  I think.

• 26:57Speaker 00

  But they really blew it.

• 26:59Speaker 02

  I mean, I thought this whole video was dumb and I just ignored the whole thing.

• 27:01Speaker 00

  Come on, no, huh? Nothing? Okay, anyhow, the point is, it's a slow bird, it's a slow bird. It's still up.

• 27:09Speaker 01

  It's still up.

• 27:10Speaker 00

  I'd have been like, yeah, I guess that was in poor taste, even for Pornhub. But, but that's, that's one thing. But the other thing is like, I, I'm actually less upset about people capitalizing on things that happen. Like, yeah, it's gross and horrible, but like, at least, it makes sense because you're a business trying to get people to look at your thing and you're just being like, hey, look at our thing. I'm more annoyed and saddened by the idea that like Funny or Die has gone from like making funny videos on the internet, like funny, like sketch comedy videos, to like, we're just gonna pretend to do, we're gonna be like the Double Rainbow Guy. By the way, the Double Rainbow Guy, for all I know, is just a, is just an invention of Levi's. But actually, this does have a history.

• 27:47Speaker 01

  Good genes, though.

• 27:48Speaker 00

  Speaking of genes, well, that's what I was gonna say, is that Levi's did this like in 2004, with the "I kiss you" dude.

• 27:55Speaker 01

  What was?

• 27:56Speaker 00

  Do you remember I Kiss You?

• 27:57Speaker 02

  No.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  No.

• 27:57Speaker 00

  Do a, do a search for I Kiss You. I think that's what it is. I can't think of his name right now. John, somebody in the control booth must know this.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  Control.

• 28:05Speaker 00

  What's his name? He had a name. He was like this weird Eastern European dude who was like, he was writing in broken English and like saying, he was like, it's a kind of like the thing that Borat is modeled after, but like a real guy, but he's not a real guy because it was like a Levi's campaign in 2004 on the internet. Nobody knows what I'm talking about. Anybody? People on Twitter, help me out here. Am I crazy? Did I just make this up?

• 28:27Speaker 01

  That's almost preferable to where Levi's went, which was like super serious.

• 28:29Speaker 00

  What if you realize that everything that you believed was a lie?

• 28:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm not seeing this any.

• 28:34Speaker 00

  We got it right here.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 28:36Speaker 00

  I Kiss You. Can I get, can somebody tell me what's going on here?

• 28:40Speaker 01

  All right, but seriously, how long until we have real hoverboards? Katie, our science.

• 28:44Speaker 00

  Let me ask you, Katie, you're a scientific minded, scientifically minded individual. How many years would you say away are the actual hoverboards?

• 28:53Speaker 02

  Um, 30.

• 28:55Speaker 00

  That's a long time.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  That's the default like response of scientists when they have no effing idea.

• 29:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  So 30 years.

• 29:01Speaker 00

  Ross says they have no, Ross says they have no idea what I'm talking about. This just goes to show how quickly the internet moves. Of course, that was 10 years ago, so.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  Five years is like, yes, it's happening. 10 years is like, we're kind of working on it.

• 29:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:13Speaker 01

  20 years is like, it's a theory.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  And anything beyond 20 years is like, we have no idea.

• 29:17Speaker 00

  I think all the, I think all the.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  I just hated this whole, this whole story.

• 29:20Speaker 00

  I think all the, I think all that matters is, you know, I mean, the thing is, you know, you don't think it's going to happen. You say 30 years and then somebody's just going to come up with it.

• 29:28Speaker 01

  All that matters is that we now know.

• 29:30Speaker 02

  That's why everyone fell for this video, right?

• 29:31Speaker 01

  We now know Doc Brown will do.

• 29:33Speaker 02

  That's the problem with hope.

• 29:34Speaker 00

  Here, is this the guy? Is this the dude? This is the I Kiss You guy?

• 29:40Speaker 01

  Is this a trailer for Alias?

• 29:43Speaker 00

  It's a trailer for this dude. This is actually like a later in the game situation here. Yeah, there he is. He had a website that was like a GeoCities site. Um, yeah, that's him. The dude in the jacket. That is the guy, but.

• 29:54Speaker 02

  And what is his, his vibe?

• 29:56Speaker 00

  Thing was like, it was like a viral, like, oh my God, this is hilarious. Look at this, you know, crazy website this guy made. He's like looking for a wife. He's like looking for a date on the internet. He doesn't understand how the internet works.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  This is before Tinder.

• 30:07Speaker 00

  It was like all this crazy, you know, it was like GeoCities, like animated, like all kinds of animated shit on the page.

• 30:12Speaker 02

  Kiss the ladies?

• 30:13Speaker 00

  It was like, I Kiss You, like, I want to be, or whatever. But then it turned out that it was like some weird. Viral like Levi's marketing for like jeans.

• 30:22Speaker 02

  Did he wear Levi's?

• 30:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, I assume.

• 30:25Speaker 02

  Why would you want that creep in your jeans?

• 30:27Speaker 00

  He gets people talking, you know, gets a buzz happening about things.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  All right. Yeah. The one thing we've learned from this is that Doc Brown will take a check for literally any brand.

• 30:37Speaker 00

  Here it is.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  He's doing Gibson and CES, right?

• 30:40Speaker 00

  This is the thing here. So this was like fake. This guy's like an actor or something. And it's just like, he talks about, he's like, it's like a personal ad.

• 30:48Speaker 02

  I mean, that's kind of funny.

• 30:49Speaker 01

  This is proto Borat.

• 30:49Speaker 00

  There he is. Here. Oh, there he is in Levi's jeans, you see? Yeah, he likes sex.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  I like travel. I go three, four country every year. That's pretty funny.

• 30:58Speaker 00

  I mean, basically.

• 30:59Speaker 02

  Oh, he's a journalist.

• 31:00Speaker 00

  Basically, this is like ripped off from, I mean, this is what Borat like ripped off.

• 31:04Speaker 02

  Right.

• 31:04Speaker 00

  To be, to be Borat, to, you know, but whatever. Long and short is we, we've lived with these kinds of memes for a long, these fake memes for a long time, but now it just seems like they're all over the place. Nobody cares. Let's move on. Nobody cares about this topic. You know, you guys are, you're not, you're not with me. I can tell. It stinks.

• 31:21Speaker 02

  That's fine. You had your, you had a moment.

• 31:22Speaker 00

  I had a second. So one of our new writers, Ariel Duham Ross, who has, who is also Canadian and has a great name, very classy, like way too classy for the Verge name.

• 31:33Speaker 02

  And a great talent.

• 31:34Speaker 00

  Very wonderful talent, not just a name, also, also a great writer.

• 31:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:38Speaker 00

  Uh, did a piece today, which everybody should read. It basically is like, there are some people, have you ever met a person who's like, I don't like music. I just don't like, I don't listen to it. I don't like it. A study has now sort of proven out or found that, that there are, if there are people who it just doesn't, their brains don't work that way. They just can't appreciate or enjoy music.

• 31:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:58Speaker 00

  Which is crazy.

• 31:59Speaker 02

  Like they don't show like a physical or emotional response to familiar songs.

• 32:05Speaker 00

  Yeah. Are those people like, is there a higher incidence of serial killers?

• 32:09Speaker 02

  I mean, I wouldn't be.

• 32:10Speaker 00

  Who can't, who don't like music?

• 32:11Speaker 02

  What, what's going to be interesting is that after this, they're planning to do brain scans on some of these people and try to figure out what is different about them.

• 32:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:19Speaker 02

  And I think if that sort of can perhaps match up with, you know, other. FMRI studies on, you know, serial killers.

• 32:28Speaker 00

  I don't think there's any correlation.

• 32:30Speaker 02

  You never know.

• 32:31Speaker 00

  Seems like you go hand in hand though.

• 32:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, but if you're looking at sort of the brain's reward system, I mean.

• 32:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:36Speaker 02

  Who knows?

• 32:36Speaker 00

  I just think it's, I think it's fascinating.

• 32:39Speaker 02

  It was a very, very weird, weird study.

• 32:41Speaker 00

  Anyway, I think we came up with maybe one of our greatest headlines ever.

• 32:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:44Speaker 00

  I think Katie, did you, were you, did you submit the bad brains part of it?

• 32:47Speaker 02

  This was me.

• 32:49Speaker 00

  It's just, you know, you have to know who bad brains are to get it, but it's a really great. It's just very interesting to me that somebody tweeted me, they're like, is this the new face blindness? I think there is something that, is there something similar about it? In the sense that you have a, kind of a, you naturally assume that everybody feels the way you feel about basic things. Like, oh, you hear music, it creates an emotional response. Like, either it makes you happy, it makes you sad, or I don't like the way this sounds, or I do like the way this sounds. It's hard to imagine, sort of like colorblindness, I guess, for me, when I think about it. Like, I can't imagine not knowing what colors are, you know? This one seems more severe, more deep, it seems more deep. Because it's like, music is basically producing some kind of emotional response.

• 33:33Speaker 00

  So it's like you're missing the ability to get a very common emotional response.

• 33:38Speaker 02

  I mean, I guess you'd save a lot of time. I feel like I spend a lot of time on music.

• 33:41Speaker 00

  Like?

• 33:42Speaker 02

  Like, making playlists.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  You know, you'd also save a lot of time if you just didn't exist.

• 33:46Speaker 00

  By the way, somebody-

• 33:47Speaker 02

  That's horrible.

• 33:47Speaker 00

  Somebody just tweeted-

• 33:48Speaker 02

  You were, you were out.

• 33:50Speaker 00

  Can I just say something?

• 33:50Speaker 02

  You were out.

• 33:51Speaker 00

  We were making it.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  Death threats.

• 33:54Speaker 00

  What happened? You made a death threat?

• 33:55Speaker 01

  It's not a death threat, it's a philosophical-

• 33:58Speaker 00

  What was it? Can I hear it again?

• 33:59Speaker 01

  You save a lot of time if you just didn't exist. You wouldn't have to worry about like laundry.

• 34:03Speaker 00

  You said that to Katie? Is that a Katie?

• 34:05Speaker 01

  No, no, like, you wanted to do laundry again.

• 34:07Speaker 00

  Things got dark here.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  You wouldn't have to have a job.

• 34:10Speaker 02

  Really cold.

• 34:11Speaker 00

  Listen, I think what he meant, he was being pragmatic. He meant that like, living takes up a lot of time. Think about how much time you'd save if you weren't-

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Save a lot of time. Save infinite time.

• 34:20Speaker 02

  I wouldn't have time.

• 34:21Speaker 00

  But that's the beauty.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 34:23Speaker 00

  I think that's the beauty.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  That's not-

• 34:24Speaker 00

  No time is, no time is all the time in the world.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  Do you remember what it was like to be-

• 34:28Speaker 02

  Thinking about what this means?

• 34:29Speaker 01

  Before you were born?

• 34:30Speaker 00

  This is like, this is like, this is like being-

• 34:32Speaker 02

  This is like what keeps me up at night.

• 34:34Speaker 00

  This is like when you're in a black, this is like being in a black hole.

• 34:36Speaker 01

  We can start doing Zen Koans if you want.

• 34:38Speaker 00

  Right, am I right? This is like if you're in a black hole.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  Imagine the faces of your parents before they were born.

• 34:42Speaker 02

  It's horrible.

• 34:43Speaker 00

  What?

• 34:44Speaker 02

  This all makes me like, really uncomfortable. Like, conversations about like, before I was born, or after I die.

• 34:48Speaker 00

  Why?

• 34:49Speaker 02

  Or then I think about like, well, even if I go to heaven, at some point, heaven will stop, stop existing.

• 34:55Speaker 00

  No, it won't.

• 34:56Speaker 02

  No, it will.

• 34:57Speaker 00

  Wait a second.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  The universe, the universe will just implode in on itself. And then what am I?

• 35:00Speaker 00

  No, no, there's heaven's not part of the universe, not the known universe. Heaven's not like up in space. It's not like a planet.

• 35:07Speaker 02

  But you know, if I'm, if I'm like.

• 35:08Speaker 00

  We haven't visited yet. First off, heaven doesn't exist. Number one.

• 35:11Speaker 02

  If I'm like, just like zipping around out there somewhere.

• 35:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. And in a DCA in space.

• 35:16Speaker 02

  I don't want to be in limbo.

• 35:17Speaker 00

  So you think that you think that after you.

• 35:19Speaker 02

  And even if I am in limbo, at some point, everything will collapse inwards and we will all just be nothing.

• 35:24Speaker 00

  Do you believe that after you die? Well, Xenu is part of the universe. So consider that. The thing that I hate to think about is the space in between things out in space.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  That's creepy.

• 35:35Speaker 00

  Which is nothing.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  Like if you're one of those people that has tryptophobia, whatever it's called.

• 35:39Speaker 00

  You don't, that kind of hurts my, that kind of hurts my brain a little bit.

• 35:42Speaker 02

  Get me in a rocket ship. Just hang out.

• 35:44Speaker 01

  You want to go to Mars one?

• 35:45Speaker 00

  Would you be comfortable with being in a rocket ship? Have you seen Gravity?

• 35:48Speaker 02

  I have.

• 35:49Speaker 00

  I find that the concept now, especially having seen Gravity, but prior to Gravity, the idea of being in space so utterly terrifying.

• 35:57Speaker 02

  I mean, I'm not gonna be.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  It's like, dude, have you seen Event Horizon? Oh, my God. No, I'm done.

• 36:02Speaker 00

  You go to that, you end up in hell. If you go far enough into space, you go to hell. Sorry, spoiler alert. That's what Event Horizon is about. They fly into space and they end up in on like hell.

• 36:12Speaker 01

  They like fold, they fold space, right?

• 36:13Speaker 00

  Whatever they do, they, whatever they do, like devils, devil.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  And they don't have Buffy, the Vampire Slayer on board.

• 36:19Speaker 00

  Have you ever played Dead Space? Cause it's the plot of Dead Space.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  I got it for free because EA did such a bad job with Simpsons.

• 36:25Speaker 00

  Dead Space is a really, really good game and everybody should play it, but it reminds you of the horror of space, as does Gravity, as does what you were just saying about.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  This isn't on our agenda, but it really dovetails well with this other thing that just came out today, which is this Mars one documentary teaser.

• 36:38Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Hold on, hold on. I want to get back to Katie's.

• 36:40Speaker 02

  I saw that.

• 36:40Speaker 00

  I want to get back to Katie's depiction of heaven. So I'm very interested, I'm very interested in several things. One.

• 36:49Speaker 00

  That you believe in heaven.

• 36:50Speaker 02

  No, I don't. I mean, that was just like a word. But I would like to think that I get to hang out somewhere after I die.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  Heaven is a bottle of

• 36:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, you do. In the ground. You get to hang out, or unless you're cremated, in which case, not in the ground.

• 37:04Speaker 02

  This is horrible.

• 37:05Speaker 00

  But here's my other question. So you think that heaven could end?

• 37:09Speaker 02

  I mean, everything will end.

• 37:10Speaker 00

  No. Heaven doesn't. The whole concept of heaven is that it defies like the laws of space and time. Like if you believe in heaven, you gotta go whole hog.

• 37:20Speaker 02

  But I just, I just said that I don't believe in heaven.

• 37:23Speaker 00

  No, okay, but okay, then if you, then whatever kind of thing, you just believe in a cool.

• 37:26Speaker 02

  If I'm just like zipping around.

• 37:27Speaker 00

  A cool planet where stuff is like free or something.

• 37:30Speaker 02

  Or I'm just like zipping around.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  My, I gotta say, my favorite depiction of-

• 37:33Speaker 00

  Zipping, you don't zip around in heaven. I don't think that's what goes on.

• 37:36Speaker 02

  Not in heaven, because I don't believe in heaven, but zipping around somewhere.

• 37:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, but everyone has a space segue.

• 37:40Speaker 00

  But you don't die and then start zipping around into the universe.

• 37:43Speaker 02

  I do.

• 37:43Speaker 00

  So you're, that's like a Scientology thing, right?

• 37:45Speaker 01

  You wear white robes and the Backstreet Boys are there and they're always performing a live concert.

• 37:49Speaker 00

  At the end of the movie.

• 37:50Speaker 02

  And you're eating cream cheese.

• 37:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:51Speaker 00

  Is that a part of heaven?

• 37:52Speaker 02

  On the cloud?

• 37:53Speaker 01

  I don't know, it's white.

• 37:54Speaker 00

  That's a bagel commercial. I'm on a cloud having delicious Philadelphia cream cheese. That is an ad for, that's like a viral campaign for Philadelphia cream cheese.

• 38:05Speaker 02

  That's where I learned about religion.

• 38:06Speaker 00

  I forgot to mention the Vergecast today brought to you by Philadelphia cream cheese. It's the lightest, creamiest cream cheese in America.

• 38:12Speaker 01

  But heaven has nothing to do with Philadelphia.

• 38:15Speaker 00

  If anything, if anything, it's quite the opposite. Let's put it that way. Anyhow.

• 38:22Speaker 02

  So, music?

• 38:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, some people can't appreciate music.

• 38:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:27Speaker 00

  And as a result, they'll never get to heaven, where they zip around eating cream cheese. Okay, moving on. I enjoyed that. I liked that. That's my favorite part. Those are my favorite conversations that anybody can have on the Vergecast.

• 38:38Speaker 01

  No, but we were talking about space. There was this Mars One video that came out today. It was a trailer, this trailer for this documentary about all these Mars One.

• 38:46Speaker 00

  People who are gonna take the one-way, the one-way trip tomorrow.

• 38:48Speaker 02

  But can I interject briefly here? I actually saw the entire documentary because we were gonna do-

• 38:54Speaker 00

  We were working on the story.

• 38:55Speaker 02

  We were working on the exact same thing.

• 38:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, great minds, great minds think a lot.

• 38:58Speaker 02

  And then we went to do an interview in DC, I think, and they were like, oh, you gotta check out this documentary we did. And we were like, what the hell?

• 39:05Speaker 00

  Guess, guess we won't be doing the exact same story.

• 39:08Speaker 02

  Story. But really cool. Cool documentary.

• 39:11Speaker 01

  Basically, the idea is that everyone who wants to go to Mars is supremely depressed.

• 39:16Speaker 00

  Of course, they're like, get me off this planet. I don't care if I ever come back, you know?

• 39:20Speaker 01

  And there's one guy who's like, the only thing that would keep me here is if my son asked me not to go. But then he was like, well, even then, it's kind of cool.

• 39:28Speaker 00

  I don't know. If you've lived through the winter that we've lived through in New York.

• 39:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:31Speaker 00

  A one way trip to Mars is starting to sound pretty good.

• 39:34Speaker 01

  I need some more Karmax. Do they have Karmax in space?

• 39:36Speaker 02

  No.

• 39:37Speaker 00

  If you take it with you.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 39:38Speaker 00

  Do they have Karmax in heaven? In heaven, you just think about Karmax and it's applied to your lips.

• 39:42Speaker 01

  You don't need Karmax.

• 39:43Speaker 00

  Well, that would be the thing when it is that is that you don't you your lips never get dry in heaven.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  Do they ever go off topic in heaven?

• 39:50Speaker 00

  That sounds like that sounds like that sounds like the title of a country song. Your lips never get dry in heaven.

• 39:59Speaker 00

  I pity the listeners today.

• 40:05Speaker 00

  What is this note? You want to talk about Shaq? Shaq Fu? Oh, no, no, no, no. Game of Thrones rap album. Can someone explain this to me?

• 40:12Speaker 01

  This is ridiculous.

• 40:12Speaker 00

  Can someone explain it to me, please?

• 40:14Speaker 02

  So, I mean, I don't watch Game of Thrones, but I did listen to the song that's on the album.

• 40:18Speaker 00

  We have a we're gonna play a clip of it in a moment.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  Great. I thought it was terrible.

• 40:21Speaker 00

  It's a no. Can someone explain the concept to me? Because I didn't actually I saw the headline, have not read the article yet.

• 40:26Speaker 02

  According to the Wall Street Journal, they want to appeal to African American and Latino demographics by releasing a free

• 40:35Speaker 02

  rap album featuring popular artists.

• 40:38Speaker 00

  So not only is that horrible.

• 40:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:41Speaker 00

  For as a marketing.

• 40:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:42Speaker 00

  It's like from like, it's like pandering.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  Straight up on the record about it.

• 40:46Speaker 00

  Lame, sad. Also, like, you know what? Make your show more diverse or something if you want to attract an audio, a larger audience, a more diverse audience. Is this it? This is Catch the Throne. Also, like, how lame. It's like, watch the throne, but they just changed it.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:02Speaker 00

  Here we go. Let's listen.

• 41:14Speaker 02

  I just thought it was not good.

• 41:15Speaker 00

  Just stop it. Turn it off. Turn it off. This is funny. Okay, but here's the thing. Last. Week, you weren't here last week, but you were. We talked about the trend of in the eighties, people doing songs from movies, like rap songs where they rapped about what was going on in the movie, like in Ghostbusters two, Bobby Brown has a song and there's like, oh, he has a rap. The whole song is about the Ghostbusters, basically. There's actually a couple of songs in that movie.

• 41:37Speaker 01

  This is much closer to like McDonald's.

• 41:39Speaker 00

  But they're like mentioning, they're like mentioning like the Targaryens in the rap. It is the wor- that's like, first off, that's like, oh yeah, I have this shitty beat, not even B-side, like C-side that I was never going to release. Like you'll pay me several hundred thousand dollars for it.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  This is like when McDonald's does raps about chicken nuggets.

• 41:55Speaker 00

  Those are more enjoyable because I'm more interested in a chicken nugget than I am about hearing a rap about Game of Thrones. It's just so off, so out of, to tone deaf.

• 42:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's really bad.

• 42:05Speaker 00

  It's out of control. Anyhow, I don't have anything else to say about it.

• 42:09Speaker 02

  The track was called Mother of Dragons.

• 42:13Speaker 00

  That's whack. Is that Big Boy?

• 42:14Speaker 01

  I'm never gonna be invited back here.

• 42:15Speaker 02

  I saw, I saw a Big Boy show at Brooklyn Bowl a few years ago and he was great and I even touched his, I touched his leg. It was awesome.

• 42:23Speaker 00

  You touched Big Boy's leg?

• 42:24Speaker 02

  Cause I was in the front row.

• 42:25Speaker 00

  I'm sorry, I'm confused. What's going on here?

• 42:27Speaker 01

  I haven't seen one episode.

• 42:28Speaker 02

  He was really good live.

• 42:29Speaker 00

  Trey has something to say. Trey Shalhoub, our new, our new verge, our new verge video producer. Let's give him a round of applause. Let's get, get on the mic here.

• 42:38Speaker 03

  I'm, um, I'm actually African American as you.

• 42:40Speaker 00

  Wait, hey, hold on, slow down. I'm confused. Okay.

• 42:45Speaker 03

  And I've never, and I've never seen Game of Thrones. I haven't seen, I haven't seen one episode.

• 42:49Speaker 00

  Are you not watching it because you feel like it lacks racial diversity?

• 42:52Speaker 03

  No.

• 42:53Speaker 00

  You're not watching it because you're not interested?

• 42:54Speaker 03

  Because I'm not interested.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  Are you more interested now?

• 42:56Speaker 03

  However, after hearing that, I'm even less interested than watching it.

• 43:02Speaker 00

  You're driving away, you're driving away an African American audience. No, I'm less interested in watching.

• 43:08Speaker 02

  Me too.

• 43:09Speaker 00

  This makes HBO seem a lot lamer.

• 43:11Speaker 01

  So you're not loving it?

• 43:12Speaker 02

  I'm offended.

• 43:12Speaker 03

  I'm not, like, I'm, yeah, I was partially offended. I mean, it's.

• 43:16Speaker 00

  You should be fully offended. I'm offended.

• 43:17Speaker 02

  I can be a little bit offended, but you said it.

• 43:21Speaker 03

  Partially because, I mean, the assumption is that all African Americans listen to hip hop.

• 43:26Speaker 00

  That's also, that's also offensive. It's not just that it's bad. It's not just that it's bad and like tone deaf and pandering and like, it's just like this lame way to, to seem like you're more diverse than you are. But also the assumption that like. Every African American is like, oh yeah, I love hip hop also. Like that's my favorite music.

• 43:43Speaker 01

  They should have had Keith Urban do it. That's what you're a big country fan, right?

• 43:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:47Speaker 00

  Are you a country fan?

• 43:48Speaker 03

  I'm not a country fan, actually.

• 43:49Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 43:49Speaker 01

  I have no idea what he loves.

• 43:51Speaker 03

  But in the other genre.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  We just met. I don't even know his name.

• 43:54Speaker 00

  Trey.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, Trey.

• 43:54Speaker 00

  You guys haven't met?

• 43:56Speaker 01

  I think we met yesterday.

• 43:57Speaker 00

  We were in the meeting the other day when we introduced him to the team.

• 43:59Speaker 02

  You were very cold.

• 44:00Speaker 00

  You were cold. What is wrong with you?

• 44:02Speaker 01

  I...

• 44:02Speaker 00

  I'm starting to think, look, I don't want to call you up. I'm starting to think, TC, that you're racist. That's all I can imagine.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  I'm racist against new people that I don't know.

• 44:10Speaker 00

  Anyhow, I'm going, thank you for actually chiming in on this.

• 44:12Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 44:13Speaker 00

  Because it's like, it's a perfect example of why HBO is blowing it on this. Like, that's great. And also Trey, you're a wonderful man. And by the way, now, I think the best dresser.

• 44:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:21Speaker 00

  In the office. And Chad is gonna be...

• 44:23Speaker 02

  We've all been talking about it.

• 44:24Speaker 00

  Chad mom has got...

• 44:25Speaker 01

  It's really nice to have like an Annie Hall moment too, you know? Like, when we need an expert, when we need an expert on hand, we're like, oh, if only, if only we had...

• 44:33Speaker 00

  An African American on hand?

• 44:35Speaker 02

  I thought you meant a well-dressed man.

• 44:37Speaker 00

  I can't, I feel like we're going down a racist path here, TC. Very upset. Anyhow, Trey, thank you. And as far as I know, TC is not a practicing racist.

• 44:45Speaker 01

  Not practicing.

• 44:47Speaker 00

  It's terrible. This has gone off the rails.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  In remission.

• 44:49Speaker 00

  Anyhow.

• 44:49Speaker 01

  This is a really weird tangent, but speaking of Game of Thrones.

• 44:52Speaker 00

  I'm listening.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  I did this Day Z story. You remember that game?

• 44:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:55Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, it's a really sadistic game. But anyway, you can like kidnap people and handcuff them. Do all kinds of weird things to them. And a favorite tactic of...

• 45:05Speaker 00

  By the way, weird segue.

• 45:07Speaker 01

  That's the weirdest segue, but one of the best tactics for avoiding being captured and handcuffed.

• 45:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:13Speaker 01

  Is to just start telling Game of Thrones spoilers over the microphone.

• 45:18Speaker 00

  If you run away for you.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like...

• 45:20Speaker 00

  That's great. You could do any spoilers.

• 45:21Speaker 01

  It's like mutually assured destruction.

• 45:23Speaker 00

  Any nerd spoilers?

• 45:24Speaker 01

  Like, well, maybe I could handcuff this guy, but maybe he knows Game of Thrones spoilers.

• 45:28Speaker 00

  You can't make yourself talk.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 45:29Speaker 00

  They should figure out a way, if you've got somebody in handcuffs, that you can like...

• 45:32Speaker 01

  We can put duct tape over people's mouths, but it's not...

• 45:34Speaker 00

  But it won't turn off your audio.

• 45:35Speaker 01

  It's an alpha. It's not in the game yet. Eventually.

• 45:37Speaker 00

  That's insane.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  Anyway, moving on. Speaking of games, Shaq Fu.

• 45:41Speaker 02

  Ah.

• 45:43Speaker 00

  Shaq Shaq Fu is a fighting game based around.

• 45:47Speaker 02

  I'm offended by this too.

• 45:48Speaker 00

  Based around Shaquille O'Neal. And Shaq is gonna fund this. What's he doing? A Kickstarter?

• 45:54Speaker 02

  Uh.

• 45:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:56Speaker 00

  What's the story?

• 45:57Speaker 02

  If you.

• 45:58Speaker 00

  Oh, he's doing the Indiegogo project to for Shaq Fu 2. Somebody asked him, there was an article a few months ago and it was like, what's up with? It was random.

• 46:07Speaker 01

  Can we just show the photo of Shaq in the motion capture?

• 46:09Speaker 00

  I think I actually met the, I think I met the journalist, actually. He was, I was talking to him at CES. He was like, yeah, I got this weird scoop out of nowhere. I ran into Shaq and I was like, hey, what's up with Shaq Fu 2? And he was like, it's happening. And it turns out, thank you for topping me off. Is this a trailer for Shaq Fu 2?

• 46:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:27Speaker 00

  I play this.

• 46:29Speaker 02

  No.

• 46:29Speaker 00

  What's the plot of Shaq Fu? Can anybody tell me like, what's the? Is that Shaq? Shaq's way more muscular in the game than he isn't.

• 46:35Speaker 02

  I was just gonna say, there's a picture in here of Shaq 2014 and his abs definitely do not look like that.

• 46:42Speaker 00

  They look like a gut.

• 46:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:44Speaker 00

  His abs look like a gut, basically. So here, I'm getting this. This is the story of Shaq Fu 1. I'm gonna read it to you. In the game storyline, Shaquille O'Neal wanders into a kung fu dojo while heading to a heavily emphasized charity basketball game. Heavily emphasized? I think they mean advertise. Charity basketball game in Tokyo, Japan. After speaking, I assume this is from the Wikipedia entry. After speaking with a kung fu master, he stumbles into another dimension where he must rescue a young boy named Mizu from the, from the evil mummy, Set Ra.

• 47:17Speaker 00

  Totally sound, that sounds completely reasonable to me. This is from the 90s. I think this game is from what, 19? I'm gonna say 1994.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  The plot to Kazam.

• 47:26Speaker 00

  I'm gonna say 1994. It's like a really, really bad Street Fighter knockoff, right?

• 47:32Speaker 02

  And this is like version 2.0.

• 47:34Speaker 00

  I mean, this looks identical to a Street Fighter. No, this is the original right here. Check this out.

• 47:38Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 47:39Speaker 00

  You know, when I was a kid. Hey, remember, remember 4-3 ratio? I mean, this is like, this is like Ryu's level in Street Fighter. This is a complete rip off of Street Fighter. I'm like mad. I'm like legit mad about Shaq Fu ripping off Street Fighter.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  Do you want to feel even more mad?

• 47:55Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 47:55Speaker 02

  If you fund it for $500, I can't speak. If you contribute $500 to his campaign, he will follow you on Instagram.

• 48:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, Shaq.

• 48:06Speaker 02

  Shaq will follow you on Instagram for $500.

• 48:08Speaker 00

  I don't understand what the value of that is.

• 48:10Speaker 02

  Isn't that just? Just makes me feel sick.

• 48:13Speaker 00

  We have, what's this? Oh, we have all of the...

• 48:16Speaker 02

  And a nice, nice little...

• 48:18Speaker 00

  What are the... Hold on, hold on. These are, we are 10 stills. What are the Shaq rewards that if you fund this? Can you tell me what they... What are they? Where's the list? Do we not have a list?

• 48:26Speaker 02

  I have a couple here.

• 48:27Speaker 00

  He'll record of, you can record your own voiceover for the game. I don't know what that means. Or he'll record a voiceover for you. How much do you have to invest?

• 48:35Speaker 00

  You can record a line in the game?

• 48:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:38Speaker 00

  Like, like what? Like, let's fight?

• 48:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, like ow.

• 48:42Speaker 00

  Mocap a signature move. How much do you have to pay to mocap a signature move?

• 48:47Speaker 00

  Let me load this up. This is not going well.

• 48:50Speaker 02

  For $750, you get a personalized YouTube message.

• 48:55Speaker 00

  By the way, $21,000 have been raised so far.

• 48:58Speaker 02

  Who, who are these people?

• 48:59Speaker 00

  Out of the $450,000 goal. And can I just say, uh... I get that he's demonstrating the popularity of it and the need for an audience, but, um...

• 49:08Speaker 01

  But he should have remade Kazam instead of making this video game.

• 49:11Speaker 00

  Here's the thing.

• 49:12Speaker 01

  Can we get the Kazam trailer?

• 49:13Speaker 00

  Can't Shaq fund it himself? That's a question on the page.

• 49:16Speaker 02

  Fair question.

• 49:16Speaker 00

  Of course he's got money. And yes, he'll be investing a lot of his own time and money in this project.

• 49:20Speaker 02

  He also wants your money.

• 49:21Speaker 00

  But he'd rather, he'd rather not spend half a million dollars on this crappy video game, to be perfectly honest.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 49:27Speaker 00

  That's money he could use for things that he enjoys and wants, as opposed to this game. Um, so here we go. Here are the levels. You ready? For $15, you get a copy of the game. Digital PC copy. $25 DLC for life. That's, by the way, what I have tattooed across my chest. $35 limited edition character.

• 49:49Speaker 02

  What does that mean?

• 49:50Speaker 00

  I think that means you'll get like a character that is not, uh, available to everybody when they first get the game. Like a secret character. Um, 45 bucks, they beta access to it. Okay, this is, by the way, we're just doing a big ad for Shackfoo 2.

• 50:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:02Speaker 00

  $50, you'll get the game plus the digital soundtrack. $55 gets you a Shackfoo t-shirt.

• 50:08Speaker 01

  There's like 80 levels of this.

• 50:09Speaker 00

  By the way.

• 50:10Speaker 02

  I kind of want a t-shirt to wear ironically.

• 50:12Speaker 00

  It's funny, because I was gonna say, if you, if you're into the Shackfoo t-shirt, there's probably something really wrong with you. You're like, yes, you're like, yes. Everything.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  I mean, I'd probably wear that.

• 50:21Speaker 00

  Everything up to this, I was not interested in, but the Shackfoo t-shirt.

• 50:24Speaker 01

  For $250, you can get sheet music spelled with a Q.

• 50:26Speaker 02

  Sheet music?

• 50:28Speaker 00

  Please don't jump ahead. For $100, you get a Shackfoo poster.

• 50:31Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 50:32Speaker 00

  For $150, you can record your own voiceover. You will get to record a special line and have your voiceover integrated into the game and receive a credit as a voice actor. By the way, this gets you into the Actors Guild, into SAG. $200 Shackfoo signed poster. You get the poster, but it's signed. A sheet music, that's misspelled, you're right, it's got a Q on the end. I don't know exactly.

• 50:52Speaker 01

  So who knows what you actually get?

• 50:55Speaker 00

  So what's music with a Q on the end? I don't think that actually counts as a thing. For $300, you get, okay, I don't know what this means, turn up the volume. Steve has graciously decided to offer an in-person or Skype lessons on the keys. So this is the, uh, the composer of the soundtrack, Steve.

• 51:12Speaker 02

  Cool.

• 51:12Speaker 00

  Steve Mullitz, or Mullitz, depending on who you talk to. For 375 bucks, you can mocap your signature move. One of our motion capture artists will create a custom animation based on a recorded signature move that you submit. Well, what, what does that mean? You'll be in the background somewhere doing a signature move?

• 51:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:29Speaker 00

  I could think of, I would spend $375 if I knew.

• 51:33Speaker 01

  You know, 4chan's gonna troll us.

• 51:34Speaker 00

  If I knew the signature move that I wanted to put in the game would go into the game.

• 51:40Speaker 00

  For, for $400 Shackfoo Lodge Party in New York. I guess that means you get to attend, or you're helping to fund it, I'm not sure.

• 51:47Speaker 02

  You plan it and he shows up?

• 51:48Speaker 00

  You were going to, we were going to party like it's 1999. It's like, I got bad news for you, 1999 came and went. I'd rather party like it's this year.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the graphics are from 1999.

• 51:58Speaker 00

  Right.

• 51:58Speaker 01

  So.

• 51:59Speaker 00

  For another, for a different $400, you get a Shaq food launch party in LA. $475 signed Shaq basketball, $500 signed Shaq food figure, $500 Shaq follows you on Instagram. $500.

• 52:10Speaker 02

  That's amazing.

• 52:11Speaker 00

  Score the score. This is insane. For $500, collaborate with Steven Shaq on making music for the game.

• 52:17Speaker 01

  I played a recorder in elementary school.

• 52:19Speaker 00

  That feels slightly desperate to me at 500. How many, so like you get 100 people to invest for $500. It's like, what, how are you going to use all 500, all 100 pieces of music or whatever? Okay, anyhow.

• 52:31Speaker 02

  I mean, it doesn't sound like they're making any promises in there.

• 52:34Speaker 00

  I'm gonna just jump ahead.

• 52:35Speaker 01

  Let's just be honest, this game's never coming out.

• 52:37Speaker 00

  Put this together weirdly because it personalized with an S.

• 52:40Speaker 02

  What's the most expensive that you could fund?

• 52:43Speaker 00

  For $35,000.

• 52:44Speaker 02

  Missed a word in there.

• 52:45Speaker 00

  For $35,000, an evening at TNT studio. The slam Doug perk of all time. One fan, only one, gets to bring two friends to TNT studios, which by the way, what is that? TNT, the TV station?

• 53:00Speaker 01

  No, that one ended of existence.

• 53:01Speaker 00

  No, no, no, TNT exists.

• 53:03Speaker 01

  Exists?

• 53:03Speaker 00

  Yeah. Bring two friends to TNT studios for a meet and greet to watch the taping of NBA on TNT and to have lunch with Shaq at the studio. If you have to pay $35,000 to hang out with Shaq, like you can do something more interesting for 35. If you have the money to do that, you should do something more interesting with your money.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  I gotta say, the best, the best, the best reward here, Shaq is basically using this like eBay. If you pay, if you pay $3,000, you get two floor seats to a Kings game. Which is basically just like Shaq has season tickets and he's like, yo, I don't need these.

• 53:37Speaker 00

  $25,000 dinner with Shaq. I would go to dinner with Shaq just to like, just to troll him. I would just be trolling. Be like, sorry, I paid $20,000, you gotta hang out with me. I gotta ask you some really annoying questions.

• 53:46Speaker 02

  Maybe The Verge could do a story on this and then we could just pull it out of our budget.

• 53:50Speaker 00

  No, I'm not gonna spend $25,000 just to do a story on Shaq. I will be, would be willing to get you a T-shirt if you can really produce some great content around the Shaq food to.

• 54:04Speaker 00

  Video game. You hate video games, so.

• 54:06Speaker 02

  That's just like an impossible.

• 54:09Speaker 00

  Triangle.

• 54:09Speaker 02

  That's not fair.

• 54:10Speaker 00

  All right. Well, you know what? Sorry.

• 54:11Speaker 01

  This is what dinner with Shaq looks like, by the way.

• 54:14Speaker 00

  Can we get the dinner with Shaq graphic up? Okay.

• 54:18Speaker 02

  So good.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  I'm putting it in the thing.

• 54:19Speaker 02

  Somehow, I'm not surprised.

• 54:21Speaker 01

  It's at the top, John.

• 54:22Speaker 00

  If you have, by the way, if you have six friends with $3,600 each, then you can group together to get this awesome perk. So Shaq will have dinner with six people. Hey, listen, guys, I'm willing to put in $3,600. Who's with me? Message me on Twitter. Let's, well, six of us will go to dinner with Shaq. And we'll all.

• 54:44Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 54:45Speaker 00

  And we'll all take our shirts off halfway through the meal and make him extremely uncomfortable.

• 54:50Speaker 00

  This is the worst topic we've ever discussed.

• 54:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I hate this whole thing.

• 54:53Speaker 00

  All right. Do we want to talk about watchdogs?

• 54:55Speaker 01

  No, I don't know.

• 54:56Speaker 00

  God, I'm so tired of this bullshit.

• 54:58Speaker 01

  I feel like watchdogs was a really cool thing before, like, all these NSA leads came out.

• 55:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, now it's.

• 55:02Speaker 02

  I don't do video games.

• 55:03Speaker 00

  Now it's all too real. Katie, we'll talk about video games. Let's talk about LSD being used as drug therapy for the first time in 40 years.

• 55:09Speaker 02

  Let's talk about that.

• 55:10Speaker 00

  So LSD is a hallucinogen.

• 55:13Speaker 02

  True.

• 55:14Speaker 00

  It's, can create a wide variety of responses in users. In fact, users of LSD report wildly different experiences.

• 55:24Speaker 00

  Now, for instance, when I took acid back in the 70s, now I knew people who would take acid and they would get, like, wild visual. There'd be like wild visuals. They'd be like, oh, my God, I'm seeing, you know, they would see the things that you associate with people seeing with acid, like, like a cat. The Cheshire Cat is like doing some.

• 55:42Speaker 02

  Sounds wild.

• 55:43Speaker 00

  If I had ever done LSD, I could tell you I did not get any visuals. It was all in my head. Anyhow, but so Katie, can you explain this?

• 55:52Speaker 02

  I would love to.

• 55:53Speaker 00

  Finally, something you want to do on the Vergecast.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  Goddamn polite.

• 55:56Speaker 00

  No, you really have been.

• 55:58Speaker 02

  This entire time.

• 55:59Speaker 00

  To you, Katie, for, you know, why don't we just.

• 56:01Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 56:02Speaker 01

  Cheers.

• 56:02Speaker 00

  Cheers to you for just one of those right there. So classy. What's going on?

• 56:08Speaker 01

  Let's just get this over with.

• 56:09Speaker 00

  Come on, guys. Please don't. Don't fight. I don't want, I want there to be peace between the two of you. I need peace on this Vergecast.

• 56:16Speaker 02

  So basically, this was the first study in the world in 40 years using LSD, and they were looking at cancer patients, most of them terminally ill.

• 56:27Speaker 02

  To see whether an LSD trip with, under the supervision and guidance of a therapist, could relieve some of the anxiety around the illness and sort of the idea of impending inevitable death.

• 56:41Speaker 00

  Wow, that's a downer. I thought they were gonna be like, oh, it turns out LSD can cure cancer. We've been ignoring it this whole time. Not nearly, not nearly as cool as that.

• 56:49Speaker 02

  No, and so the results, it was a very small study. The results weren't great. Some of the patients experienced about a 20% improvement in anxiety levels based on like evaluations and questionnaires. But the results weren't statistically significant. I think sort of the real win here is a win for the idea of using psychedelics like LSD in future research and in, in sort of medical protocols.

• 57:19Speaker 00

  Cause we've sort of, we've sort of taken drugs like LSD and said, this is, this is just bad. Just avoid it at all costs. Don't look at it. Don't study it anymore. Don't think about it. It's a, it's a,

• 57:30Speaker 00

  you know, it's, it's illegal.

• 57:31Speaker 02

  It's illegal. It's dangerous.

• 57:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, right. And, and we just kind of put it on a, just put it in a safe somewhere and we're like, leave it alone.

• 57:38Speaker 02

  And I think it's something that in the last like five or six years has seen a real sea change or an evolution in sort of how it's perceived in the way the FDA and the DEA are handling studies like this with LSD or with, you know, MDMA, the active ingredient in ecstasy, even marijuana. So, you know, I think, I think this is an interesting example.

• 58:02Speaker 02

  Doesn't sound like it does great stuff for anxiety, which I can, I can understand.

• 58:06Speaker 00

  It's a little inconsistent. I feel like this would not be my go-to if I was trying to treat anxiety. I wouldn't be like, oh, you know what'd be good is the, the unpredictable, sometimes terrifying LSD. Let's give that to people with anxiety.

• 58:17Speaker 01

  There used to be a lot of LSD testing though.

• 58:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 58:20Speaker 01

  Like we have a video here on John, uh, of the British Army during World War II testing on British troops.

• 58:26Speaker 00

  Really?

• 58:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, they found that they just became completely ineffective.

• 58:28Speaker 00

  Of course, of course. They were having too much fun.

• 58:31Speaker 01

  Absolutely. One guy climbed a tree, I think.

• 58:32Speaker 00

  I just want to say, don't do drugs, everyone, unless, um, they're really, unless they're really good, you know?

• 58:37Speaker 01

  Unless you feel like it.

• 58:38Speaker 00

  Can we see the clip? Do we have the clip or no? No clip?

• 58:41Speaker 01

  I thought we had the clip.

• 58:42Speaker 00

  Great stuff. Tight, tight ship we got here. Really, Roddy, just smooth, smooth, cool ride.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  There we go. Here it is.

• 58:47Speaker 00

  It's like Reaver Madness.

• 58:48Speaker 01

  Do you have sound?

• 58:49Speaker 00

  Is there sound on this clip? No sound. I guess we can just imagine, uh, these guys are like, whoa, things seem weird. I mean, I don't know what they'd be saying.

• 58:56Speaker 02

  They have guns too.

• 58:57Speaker 00

  You know, I wouldn't want to.

• 58:58Speaker 02

  I don't feel good about this.

• 58:59Speaker 00

  I wouldn't get, I wouldn't be like, hey, take this acid and here's a rifle.

• 59:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, this guy just lost it.

• 59:03Speaker 04

  After thirty-five minutes, one of the radio operators had become incapable of using his set. And the efficiency of the rocket launcher team was also very impaired.

• 59:12Speaker 02

  So dangerous.

• 59:14Speaker 00

  No.

• 59:14Speaker 04

  Ten minutes later, the attacking section had lost all sense of urgency.

• 59:18Speaker 00

  What are they thinking?

• 59:19Speaker 04

  Noticed the bunching and indecision as they enter a wood occupied by the enemy.

• 59:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'd be like, no, don't go in the woods.

• 59:25Speaker 04

  Commander tried to use a map to find the location of troop headquarters and a prisoner's escort had to have the way pointed out to him, although it was in plain sight, seven hundred yards away over open country.

• 59:36Speaker 00

  We've all been there.

• 59:37Speaker 04

  Fifty minutes after taking the drug, radio communication had become difficult, if not impossible, but the men are still capable of sustained physical effort. However, constructive action was still attempted by those retaining a sense of responsibility in spite of physical symptoms. But one hour and ten minutes after taking the drug, with one man climbing a tree to feed the birds.

• 59:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, wow.

• 1:00:01Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:00:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, so basically. What I think is so wonderful is.

• 1:00:03Speaker 02

  We need to do more studies like that.

• 1:00:05Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:00:05Speaker 00

  What is so wonderful is how like in the old days, they'd be like, let's just give them some acid, keep, keep the guns on them, take the rocket launcher and just do your thing or whatever. Like we, we, nobody was worried that they would shoot somebody. It was a gentler time, a dumber time when people didn't know anything. Uh, that's great. That was hilarious. I think those guys are like, they're having the time of their life. And I, so actually there's a lot of like drugs, drugs as a thing are, are sort of back.

• 1:00:31Speaker 02

  They're back.

• 1:00:32Speaker 00

  And, and, and there's like, you know, our attitudes are definitely changing. Um, Colorado, of course, uh, uh, weed is legal in Colorado now. Um, and there's the first ever, uh, commercial, TV commercial for weed. I think legal weed that we, we ran a story on. Do we have a clip of that?

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  It's actually pretty good.

• 1:00:51Speaker 00

  I'd love to see it.

• 1:00:52Speaker 01

  It's pretty good.

• 1:00:53Speaker 00

  It's an ad for weed, correct?

• 1:00:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:55Speaker 00

  Can we see a clip of the, uh, I'm sorry that I didn't tell you guys that I, they're, they're getting it.

• 1:01:00Speaker 01

  If you've seen, if you've seen an ad on the internet, it's one hundred percent legal bud.

• 1:01:03Speaker 00

  Yeah. And where, now what do you do? You, you have, is it for Colorado? I haven't seen the idea. Is this it? Can we get audio?

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, it's for medical marijuana.

• 1:01:10Speaker 00

  Can we get this, can we start this over?

• 1:01:11Speaker 04

  I know that. Ain't nobody selling but me. I got tuna. I got salmon. I got sweet shrimp.

• 1:01:17Speaker 05

  I got the finest sashimi this area has seen in years. You need me and I need you. Let's make this work. You buy some sashimi, I'll throw in some rice paper, man. Totally free, gratis. I got everything, even California rolls, baby.

• 1:01:29Speaker 06

  You wouldn't buy your sushi from this guy, so why would you buy your marijuana from him? MarijuanaDoctors.com is the only service that connects patients with real doctors for medical marijuana recommendations. Simple, confidential, safe.

• 1:01:44Speaker 00

  They're right, I wouldn't buy sushi from that guy.

• 1:01:47Speaker 01

  I don't know, kind of a drug dealer's a bad name, don't you think?

• 1:01:50Speaker 00

  No, that's, they're, well, first off, that guy was a little, like, okay, that's a great ad. I want to say something. That guy was, like, I've never met a drug dealer that excited.

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  Nobody's buying weed from that guy.

• 1:01:58Speaker 00

  Not that I've ever met a drug dealer, mind you, but if I had, I've surely never met one that excited. And like, kind of nice, really.

• 1:02:06Speaker 02

  I don't know why he was throwing the edamame everywhere.

• 1:02:08Speaker 00

  He was just showing he had, he had a lot of it. It was no, it was no big deal for him to.

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  He's making it rain.

• 1:02:14Speaker 00

  He's like, yeah, he's like, he's like, listen, when it comes to edamame, I've got plenty of it. Which, by the way, I think for sushi restaurants, very true.

• 1:02:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:20Speaker 00

  Plenty of edamame.

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  It's like bread.

• 1:02:21Speaker 00

  Fish is on endless, yeah, endless, endless edamame.

• 1:02:24Speaker 01

  Breadsticks of the alcohol.

• 1:02:25Speaker 00

  That's right. Um, I think it's a great ad and also, uh, I think drives home a really important point. Like, who wants to buy drugs from like a weird drug dealer when you could just, when the government just give it to you?

• 1:02:35Speaker 01

  It's just kind of so surreal to see something like that.

• 1:02:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  And know it's on national, well, not national television, but local television.

• 1:02:40Speaker 00

  Where is that for LA? Is that for California?

• 1:02:42Speaker 01

  Uh, well, I think it's either for, actually, I don't know where it's airing.

• 1:02:45Speaker 00

  Is it medical?

• 1:02:45Speaker 01

  But I know it was on CNN.

• 1:02:46Speaker 00

  Is it medical marijuana in Colorado or is it just like weed for people like Amsterdam?

• 1:02:49Speaker 01

  No, no, no, it's recreational.

• 1:02:50Speaker 02

  It's medical and recreational.

• 1:02:51Speaker 00

  Yeah. You don't, do you need a, you don't need a license, do you?

• 1:02:53Speaker 02

  Not for recreational, no.

• 1:02:55Speaker 00

  Right, so, so how does that work in Colorado? There, there are weed shops there now?

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:02:58Speaker 00

  And they just, you just go, I'm in Denver, I just go to a weed shop. I gotta go to Denver. This is amazing. This is so weird.

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  It's weird.

• 1:03:06Speaker 02

  It's really weird.

• 1:03:07Speaker 00

  We spent our entire lives being told that this stuff is the worst thing in the world and you gotta stay away from it. And if you, if you smoke one puff of weed, you're immediately going to be a heroin addict.

• 1:03:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:15Speaker 00

  And like, now it's like.

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  Reefer Madness, John.

• 1:03:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:17Speaker 00

  I've seen Reefer Madness. I've actually watched it. It's depressing, by the way.

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  It is.

• 1:03:20Speaker 00

  You think Reefer Madness is gonna be like a funny movie, like, oh, these guys in the 50s, they made this hilarious, 60s, they made this hilarious movie. I think it's from the 50s. Maybe actually from earlier, 40s? Anyhow, but it's actually a huge downer.

• 1:03:31Speaker 01

  And then you realize it's all about.

• 1:03:32Speaker 00

  36. It's from 1936. It's actually really, really depressing and it's about like, it's very sad people in very sad situations. Um, oh, here it is. Look at this. Wait, this is colorized. I don't go in for this colorized BS. Hey, if I wanted to see things in color, I would watch network television in 2014. What is going on with my hair?

• 1:03:52Speaker 02

  It only has two stars on IMDb.

• 1:03:54Speaker 00

  This hair is so, what do they know? It's so messed up.

• 1:03:57Speaker 01

  Your hair is...

• 1:03:58Speaker 00

  It's getting really long.

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  On drugs.

• 1:04:03Speaker 00

  Just do that first.

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  Maybe it's time for a haircut.

• 1:04:05Speaker 00

  It is time for a haircut. What are you saying? Is it time for a haircut?

• 1:04:08Speaker 01

  I think we need to end so you can go get a haircut.

• 1:04:10Speaker 00

  You know what? I think it is time to wrap up, unfortunately. This was a weird one.

• 1:04:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:14Speaker 00

  I think this is a, it's a long week. I'm very tired.

• 1:04:16Speaker 02

  Me too. And we drank an entire bottle of wine.

• 1:04:18Speaker 00

  We drank this wine. Um, I didn't even realize. I haven't finished. I still have like quite a bit, but you refilled, so.

• 1:04:24Speaker 02

  I finished mine.

• 1:04:24Speaker 00

  I had a baby. I had a baby. Not this week, but it's, it's tiring.

• 1:04:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  But we know now officially that it is a baby.

• 1:04:31Speaker 00

  Let me tell you about my baby.

• 1:04:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:33Speaker 00

  It's put on weight, which is very good.

• 1:04:34Speaker 02

  It?

• 1:04:35Speaker 00

  She has put on weight. I don't want to reveal.

• 1:04:38Speaker 01

  What's her name, Link?

• 1:04:40Speaker 00

  Hey, come on, man.

• 1:04:41Speaker 02

  How much did she weigh when she was born?

• 1:04:44Speaker 00

  Uh, six pounds, nine ounces.

• 1:04:47Speaker 02

  Oh, a little one.

• 1:04:48Speaker 00

  She was early.

• 1:04:49Speaker 01

  That's like me, medium.

• 1:04:51Speaker 00

  No, it's, it's close to, it's close to right on.

• 1:04:53Speaker 01

  It's a midsize.

• 1:04:54Speaker 00

  Now she is eight pounds, 10 ounces.

• 1:04:56Speaker 02

  Great.

• 1:04:57Speaker 00

  Which, fun fact, is how much I weighed when I was born. I was a huge baby.

• 1:05:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:03Speaker 00

  Huge. And I'm a huge adult, weirdly.

• 1:05:06Speaker 01

  I think my brother was like 11 or 12.

• 1:05:08Speaker 00

  Oh, my god.

• 1:05:09Speaker 01

  And now, and now he's like 105 pounds.

• 1:05:11Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I was small. And now I'm, you know.

• 1:05:15Speaker 00

  Medium.

• 1:05:16Speaker 01

  The Michelin Man.

• 1:05:16Speaker 00

  You're the Michelin Man. Don't listen. That's, the Michelin Man is, actually looks like he's in better shape, frankly.

• 1:05:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:23Speaker 00

  It's terrible. Why? This is abuse.

• 1:05:25Speaker 02

  Is the baby polite or rude?

• 1:05:27Speaker 00

  The baby is wonderful. She's great. She, she only has one problem, which is, um, uh, she doesn't, she's not perfect. Well, she's a baby. She doesn't sleep at night.

• 1:05:36Speaker 02

  Ugh.

• 1:05:37Speaker 00

  That's not that bad.

• 1:05:37Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:05:38Speaker 00

  I mean, it's horrible, but, uh...

• 1:05:39Speaker 02

  I take sleep very seriously.

• 1:05:40Speaker 00

  No, no, I know. You get like nine hours a night, which is so insane, and...

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  Every night, you get nine hours.

• 1:05:45Speaker 00

  Can you imagine?

• 1:05:47Speaker 02

  Eight to nine.

• 1:05:48Speaker 00

  Anyhow, but she's a joy and a wonder, uh, and, uh, you know, I don't know.

• 1:05:52Speaker 02

  Are you gonna have another one?

• 1:05:54Speaker 00

  You know, that's a great question. It's very insane. It's an insane experience. It's horrible for the mother. For women, I really, it's sad. Like, it sucks. I wish there was another way to do it because women have the, get the worst. They have the worst situation. They have to carry that baby around for nine months. Then they have to have it, which is insane. If any way you have it, it's crazy. And, and then they're responsible for kind of everything. Like, I can't, I can't feed the baby. I mean, I could if I would like, wanted to give it steak, but you can't give it steak.

• 1:06:25Speaker 01

  Well, there's always science. You know, we had that story on cultured beef a while back.

• 1:06:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  You know, maybe we're gonna have cultured babies.

• 1:06:30Speaker 00

  I think that's great. Actually.

• 1:06:32Speaker 02

  That is actually a thing.

• 1:06:33Speaker 00

  That's a, that's a thing that I'm interested in.

• 1:06:35Speaker 02

  Me too.

• 1:06:35Speaker 00

  We have, we have, I think we'll have more on that.

• 1:06:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:38Speaker 00

  On The Verge, actually. Funny you should bring it up. Okay, I think that's, we should wrap up on that point. Anyhow, I don't know. I think I'd probably like to have, I don't, only kids are weird, right? Only kids are, are.

• 1:06:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's my.

• 1:06:49Speaker 00

  I feel like they're lonely, like they always want.

• 1:06:50Speaker 02

  I want one, and then my partner in creating a baby is like, no, then there'll be a weirdo. We need to have two.

• 1:06:59Speaker 00

  He's right.

• 1:07:00Speaker 02

  That sounds expensive and annoying.

• 1:07:01Speaker 00

  Here's a photo of my, here's a photo of my daughter.

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  Single children are so entitled.

• 1:07:06Speaker 00

  Well, you do have more, you can give, well, we have Penny, so it's already like, we have two babies.

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  You know what people, you know what parents love is when people compare pet ownership to being a parent.

• 1:07:17Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  It's like their favorite thing.

• 1:07:18Speaker 00

  No, but here's the thing, I, and maybe I said this in the last one. I think that's totally reasonable. I think I learned a lot from having a dog. It's like, not that wildly different. Your responsibility level is much higher. No, I'm sorry. I think it is. I learned a lot from having a dog, and I think it was less of a crazy, like, oh my God, this thing needs me to feed it and take care of it and make sure it's healthy and take it to the doctor and like, you know, make sure it's loved and all this. Like, it's, it's very similar.

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  It's like a Fisher Price training baby.

• 1:07:44Speaker 00

  But it's like 10% of how, the, 10% of the intensity.

• 1:07:47Speaker 02

  10% is fair.

• 1:07:48Speaker 00

  It's 10%, but the, but the basic rules are, are the same.

• 1:07:52Speaker 01

  All right, this was the last Vergecast.

• 1:07:53Speaker 00

  I don't think so.

• 1:07:54Speaker 01

  Ever.

• 1:07:55Speaker 00

  This is the beginning of the end. Or is it the end of the beginning?

• 1:07:58Speaker 02

  Winecast from now on.

• 1:07:59Speaker 00

  I like it. I like the wine. I like.

• 1:08:01Speaker 01

  Next week, we're gonna talk about cats. It's gonna be the Verge Cats.

• 1:08:03Speaker 00

  I like the mellow nature of this, and I like that we, we, we touch on some topics that we don't normally touch on.

• 1:08:08Speaker 02

  Like heaven.

• 1:08:08Speaker 01

  Heaven.

• 1:08:09Speaker 00

  I would like to talk more about heaven.

• 1:08:10Speaker 02

  Me too.

• 1:08:11Speaker 00

  That's for damn sure.

• 1:08:12Speaker 01

  We should.

• 1:08:12Speaker 00

  All right, that's the Vergecast for this week. You can, if you want to get in touch with us, you can email us at [email protected]. You can, you can leave a comment when this story goes up, of this post, of this thing. Actually, there's a post that is already up. You can leave a comment on, if I'm being honest with you. You can write something in our forums, write, start a conversation in our forums about The Vergecast. And you can also find us on Twitter. The Verge is at Verge. I'm Joshua Topolsky. TC is laughing stoic.

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  I need to change that.

• 1:08:40Speaker 00

  It's horrible.

• 1:08:40Speaker 01

  I'll lose the.

• 1:08:41Speaker 00

  It's horrible. It's like some weird emo.

• 1:08:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't like that. It's really weird.

• 1:08:43Speaker 01

  Thanks a lot, Katie.

• 1:08:44Speaker 00

  And Katie Drummond is, Katie, whoa, wow, the wine really is taking effect here. The wine is really having this profound effect on Katie Drummond.

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  Stop mocking, John.

• 1:08:54Speaker 00

  Normally mild-mannered, I don't know if I've ever heard her use the F-word.

• 1:08:57Speaker 02

  He threatened me.

• 1:08:59Speaker 00

  Did, physically? Guys, okay.

• 1:09:03Speaker 01

  I'm never drinking with her again.

• 1:09:04Speaker 00

  I'll be honest with you, it's a little uncomfortable, but I find it to be somewhat enjoyable.

• 1:09:08Speaker 01

  I'm gonna let her sit next to you next time.

• 1:09:09Speaker 00

  Uh, Katie or Katie Drum?

• 1:09:11Speaker 02

  With two Ms.

• 1:09:12Speaker 00

  Two M's, sorry. Of course, how can I forget?

• 1:09:14Speaker 01

  You need to change that.

• 1:09:15Speaker 00

  Because you know why?

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  It's a really stupid Twitter name.

• 1:09:19Speaker 00

  You know, because, because there are two M's in your last name.

• 1:09:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:22Speaker 00

  Which is Drummond.

• 1:09:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:24Speaker 01

  It's like learn how to spell drum.

• 1:09:25Speaker 00

  You don't want to have Drummond in the, in the whole thing?

• 1:09:27Speaker 02

  It was taken.

• 1:09:27Speaker 00

  Too long? This is another Katie Drummond.

• 1:09:29Speaker 02

  She's a real bitch.

• 1:09:31Speaker 00

  Wow. And that is The Vergecast. As, as always, we thank you for watching and listening. And I think it goes without saying, my family, your family, and the families of everyone you know and love are in great danger. And I can only hope they make it to the next Vergecast.