Pod Insights The Vergecast It's still way too hard to switch phones About this episode How much smartphone is too much smartphone? Why is it so hard to switch from one phone to another, even in 2026? And is your smartwatch finally ready to replace your phone, even for a few things? These are the questions you have, and The Verge's Allison Johnson is here to answer them. If you have others, keep 'em coming! Call the Vergecast Hotline at 866-VERGE11, email [email protected] , tell us everything.
Further reading:
Google announces Pixel 11 launch event in August | The Verge
The whole Pixel line could get more expensive this year | The Verge
Meta’s glasses will turn off the camera if you tamper with the privacy light | The Verge
This jumping $800 robot camera dog filled me with joy
Ditching my phone for an LTE smartwatch was a humbling experience
I switch phones once a week — here’s how I manage the chaos
Welp, I bought an iPhone again
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Transcript 6,632 words · 12 speakers
0:02 Speaker 00 Hello and welcome to The Vergecast, the flagship podcast of number portability. I'm your friend David Pierce and today on the show, we are going to answer your questions about phones. We try to do a hotline episode on the show every week or so. We have a lot of questions about smartphones, but not about like which smartphone should you buy? Because increasingly, I think that's a pretty easy question for most people. But questions about how do we move around in the world as people who have smartphones? How do we use our smartphones a little less? How do we manage our phones in a family full of people? We have a bunch of your questions. Allison Johnson's going to come on and we're going to answer as many of them as we can. There's a lot of fun stuff to get to. But first, here's everything else happening on The Verge today. This is 90 Seconds on The Verge for Wednesday, July 8th, 2026. New Pixel phones are coming.
0:45 Speaker 00 Google just announced an event for August 12th in New York City, where I suspect we're going to get new Pixels, new Pixel Pros, maybe a new Pixel Fold, maybe even a new Pixel Watch. Who knows what's coming after last year's deeply bizarre event with Jimmy Fallon? But in terms of the devices themselves, we're not expecting real fireworks. Slimmer bezels, thinner foldable phone in particular, maybe a new design for the giant camera bar. Most of all, I think the biggest new thing about the Pixels is that they're going to be substantially more expensive. Because everything right now is substantially more expensive. Thank you, RAM again. Oh, and by the way, there is a new Samsung Foldable coming July 22nd. It is phone season, baby. We're so back. Meanwhile, Meta just issued an update to its smart glasses
1:28 Speaker 00 that makes a very small but very important privacy change. If the glasses detect that someone has tampered with or destroyed that little light that blinks when you're recording, the camera will now be disabled altogether. This is a good change and it's a response to a very real phenomenon of people hacking and disabling those lights. But that is just one of the problems facing Meta's smart glasses when it comes to privacy and there are many, many more to reckon with. Finally, I'd like to briefly introduce you to Benny, this new dog-like drone that runs and jumps and falls down and gets back up and was created by a bunch of former DJI employees. It's a Kickstarter project, so all normal Kickstarter caveats apply. But The Verge's Sean Hollister took Benny on an adventure and frankly, had a great time. The thing is adorable. Creepy, dystopian, always on camera, hellscape?
2:13 Speaker 00 Absolutely, but also extremely adorable. I kind of love it. You can read more about all of this at theverge.com. That's 90 seconds on The Verge for Wednesday, July 8.
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2:50 Speaker 02 This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends, like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an Ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com slash superior access to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.
3:23 Speaker 00 Joining me now, The Verge's senior smartphone reviewer, Allison Johnson. Hi, Allison.
3:27 Speaker 03 Hello.
3:28 Speaker 00 Allison, we have lots of questions from the people who demand answers. I will say, these are largely not about e-ink phones, even though I have a limitless supply of questions about e-ink phones that I could have brought you, should I have desired.
3:43 Speaker 03 We could do another 30-minute segment on e-ink phones.
3:47 Speaker 00 Easily, and we will. Believe you me, we will. For now, I have a few questions, mostly about phones, but I have one that's about cameras that I still think you are the correct person to answer. This one comes from David R., who says, "My wife had our first baby," a girl, congrats, David, "in August, and as you can imagine, we've been taking tons of photos. I'm wondering if there's a decent point-and-shoot camera that's not too expensive, maybe under $500, or should we just stick with our phones? We already have a Nikon DSLR, so I don't want to spend $1,000 on a new camera when I could just upgrade the things for that one." You in a previous life were a camera person. You remain a camera person. You were also a person with a young kid who thinks a lot about photos. So my first question for you, and I think this is a question actually most parents grapple with
4:30 Speaker 00 when you first have kids, is is a dedicated camera worth it over my phone for kid pictures specifically?
4:38 Speaker 03 Man, the eternal question. I found that I so I have a camera. I have a Sony A7C. First year of my kid's life came out a lot, took a lot of fancy pictures. I it hasn't seen the light of day in several years. But I don't, I think every parent's mileage kind of varies. So my, my kind of instinct is like, why, what, what makes you think you want a dedicated camera? Like, what are the reasons? If you want just like less connection to your phone, you don't want your, your phone and your face and your kids' big moments, totally legitimate.
5:24 Speaker 03 The camera market is kind of like a weird mess right now. Like, if you're talking about a $500 point and shoot, those are nonexistent.
5:38 Speaker 00 Yeah, that was the part that tripped me up too, is I think even if you want to make the spiritual argument for a point and shoot camera, which I think you can, Neelai Patel bought a Sony RX100 when he had his first kid and swore by it that like, it's fast, it takes better pictures, it'll, it'll last you longer. Like, there, there are a lot of good reasons to do it. It's, it's the $500 thing that I can't quite figure out because there's just not a lot there.
6:04 Speaker 03 Yeah, there used to be, there used to be just dozens of models at every price point in the market. They've all kind of gone away. You can, you can get a, a new Canon Powershot for somewhere around like $300, $400 right now. Otherwise, you're looking at like a very expensive point and shoot or. The the used like resale market and those prices are kind of insane. For a variety of reasons.
6:33 Speaker 00 The new power shots, those those kind of the ones that have recently, you know, had the huge come up on TikTok. And there's they're like retro cool all over again. Are those meaningfully better photos than you would get from your phone at this point?
6:46 Speaker 03 It depends on what you're looking for. If you get something with a good amount of zoom, I think that can still best a phone camera in certain situations. Low light photos, not as great.
7:01 Speaker 00 Okay.
7:01 Speaker 03 But some people are really, really disliking the the kind of, you know, color they're getting out of their phone cameras these days. The HDR look and all of that. If you want to run away from that, a compact camera is a great place to go. My instinct is like, get a fun lens for that Nikon DSLR. Like, I have a fifth, like, the cheapest 50 millimeter possible on my Sony A7C. And I never take it off unless I am forced to.
7:35 Speaker 03 And I love it. And it kind of like, it's not a an all purpose, bring it to the kids piano recital, soccer practice, whatever lens. In theory, I would bring it out more, but I still don't.
7:49 Speaker 00 I actually think that's where I land too, because I was thinking about my own experience as a parent. And it's basically, you take two kinds of photos, right? One is the sort of run and gun, we're out at the grocery store and they did something very cute photo. And unless you're committed to buying a point and shoot camera and bringing it with you absolutely everywhere, you're going to miss those photos anyway. So, right? And I think for the most part, your phone is perfectly adequate to do those things. What I would argue for in those cases is like, get a third party app, use like Haylight or something, dumb down the processing, get get a little more control over the photos that you're trying to take if you want to take better photos in those instances. And then there's the flip side where there are things that are sort of obviously photography experiences,
8:32 Speaker 00 where it's like, I'm going to one that we. Just had was like a birthday party where everybody was dressed up as superheroes. Like, I know for sure I'm gonna take a lot of pictures. And for that, I think, I think you're right. Get a really fun, really versatile DSLR lens and just be the photographer at the party. And there's like, this is also a thing I've discovered. I don't know if this has happened to you, but like, when there is the one person running around taking great pictures, they're like the hit of the party. All of a sudden, it's like, as long as I know you, if you're just a stranger taking pictures of my child, we have problems. But like, the, the one parent who is like doing a good job taking pictures and then sends them around, like, you, you end up beloved in your community. So I think if you're willing to be that person, show up with the DSLR and just show everybody up with your awesome pictures.
9:17 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah, you'll become very powerful.
9:19 Speaker 00 A hundred percent. But yeah, I feel like the, the middle ground of like, I, I do think a camera like the RX 100 is going to take vastly better pictures than anything you're gonna get on your phone. And if you want to step up a little bit, like, the, the Fujifilm X100 series, also gonna take better stuff. More fun camera to use, isn't your phone, those are all good things. It's a commitment to decide to live with one of those things with you at all times. And if you're not going to, your DSLR and your phone combo, I think is basically enough. That's where I'm at.
9:48 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah, you kind of have to be a, I can't carry my camera everywhere person. Cause you're gonna be carrying a baby everywhere now.
9:58 Speaker 00 A baby who is really going to get very interested in trying to break whatever you hold in your hands.
10:03 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's fun.
10:04 Speaker 00 I have a 10 month old whose new thing is to try to knock my coffee out of my hands in the morning. And he just cackles at me as he tries to swat at it. He knows what he's doing.
10:12 Speaker 03 Oh, my gosh.
10:13 Speaker 00 It's really something.
10:14 Speaker 03 I have a maneuver. I like shield the coffee cup and I, like Lennox is old enough at this point, but I'm like, I'm taking a sip of coffee. Don't make any moves, like, even when it's not on purpose.
10:27 Speaker 00 His thing for the longest time was he would get really excited whenever I was filling up a bottle when I had him in my arms. And he would just like lurk around so much, I would end up spilling the formula all over everywhere. And he would just die laughing every single time.
10:38 Speaker 03 That's great.
10:38 Speaker 00 He's like, my, my chaos is his absolute favorite thing.
10:43 Speaker 00 All right, David, I hope that all of that helps. Let us know what you end up deciding. Now, Allison, I have phone questions for you. More specifically, the people have phone questions for you. While we're talking parenting, let's, let's stick with this one. We have a parenting question for you.
10:56 Speaker 04 David, apologies for another question about cutting down on phone time. Last year I switched to an MVNO, which gave me a cellular connection to my Apple Watch. I love this because it reminds me of the last non-smartphone I had that had a data plan, but really only had access to a Java-based Google Maps app. Feels like the correct solution to cutting down on my smartphone dependence. And I'd like to continue to rely more on my watch as a semi-smartphone. The biggest issue is that I have a four-year-old and a five-month-old, and it feels weird to leave the house with them for anything beyond a neighborhood walk and not bring my phone. Same thing for when I go to the office, where I use my phone on my commute and listen to music while working. My wife and I also have access to each other's location for emergencies,
11:39 Speaker 04 and I can't tell the Find My app to only track my watch's location instead of my phone. There's also the issue of convincing her that I can leave my phone and she'll still be able to reach me on my watch. I'm curious about your thoughts on cutting down on phone time. Phone time, rather, while it is a borderline essential tool as a parent. Thanks so much. Have a good one.
11:58 Speaker 00 A running theme of our conversations here on The Vergecast, Allison, are why can't my Apple Watch solve all of my problems?
12:04 Speaker 03 Oh, my God. I love it.
12:06 Speaker 00 And I feel this so acutely all the time.
12:08 Speaker 03 Yes.
12:09 Speaker 00 I know you reckon with this exact thing all of the time. Tell me what you think about this question.
12:14 Speaker 03 Yeah, so my experimentation using an Apple Watch, like, kind of as my phone, leaving the house without the phone. It was pretty centered on, like, me going somewhere solo. So I, yeah, trying to extrapolate and think about how that would go on a family outing, or if I'm just taking my kid to the playground. Yeah, it does get a little hairy there. And I'm thinking of, like, CarPlay, you know? Doesn't work Apple Watch to car.
12:52 Speaker 00 Good one. Yeah.
12:53 Speaker 03 I, you know, I tried. I couldn't trick the car into connecting to the Apple Watch. So something like that is, yeah, if you want...
13:06 Speaker 03 Directions on the fly to go somewhere else, or you have to play the Paw Patrol movie soundtrack in your car. Otherwise, a murder is going to happen. I'm familiar with all these pain points. And I think it's easier to solve for the like, well, what are you using your phone on your commute for? Is there another device that would do that? Maybe an e-reader or another, like an app that is on the smartwatch you could subscribe to and get your books or podcasts or whatever it is. But yeah, the family situations, I think, are just trickier.
13:46 Speaker 00 It is. And I think, I think to some extent, this question is a little bit like just asking for permission to have your phone with you all the time. And I just want you to know, it's okay to have your phone with you all the time. I have my phone with me all the time. Like, I would love to use my phone less. I don't, and it's fine. We're all just getting through life together here. But I think, to me, there is something in here that is like, okay, how do I make it so that I can switch my phone into something less than it is without losing the essential features, right? And this is where Find My, I think, is actually a perfect example of the sort of thing that you can't just leave your phone at home because it's actually important that your family be able to track you. If this is a thing your family has decided,
14:31 Speaker 00 leaving your phone at home defeats the whole purpose of this feature, right? So even if it's like, okay, just replace your Spotify with an iPod. Problem solved. Like, actually, no, problem not solved at all. And this is like, this is the endless battle of the minimalist smartphone is figuring out what is the exact threshold of all of the stuff that you need and nothing else? Nothing has remotely come close to achieving that threshold. My immediate thought on hearing this question was that there are two solutions I can think of that will largely help. The symptoms of the problem here, right? The problem is not, I have a phone. The problem is I look at my phone too much, which as a parent, holy lord, do I feel that? I'm like, sitting there next to my child scrolling Slack. And I literally, I had this thought just the other day of like, oh, thank God he won't remember this because I'm sitting here looking at my phone.
15:16 Speaker 00 And then I was like, I could just stop looking at my phone. Like this is, I could just literally stop looking at my phone. But anyway, the two thoughts that I had were that you could really, really aggressively embrace focus modes, which is essentially a way to either manually or by time, or even in some cases like geofence, your way to say, when I'm home, my phone becomes something else. And you can make certain apps harder to access. You can change your wallpaper. You can change your lock screen, like all this stuff that just sort of sends the signal to your brain. I don't want to be on my phone. And then when you leave, it can switch to, I'm commuting now, I have permission to use my phone for all that it's worth. So I think focus modes is a good software version of that. And then the other one is the, is the brick,
15:59 Speaker 00 which I'm increasingly sort of a zealot for the idea of the brick, which is a very simple gadget that you tap with your phone and it, it changes the mode that you're in. You have to tap this little rectangle of plastic and, and it uses the NFC reader to switch your phone's mode. And what it can do is it can, it can turn apps off. It can change some settings for you. It basically, it shuts down all the things that you want to have shut down. When I have used my phone the least at home has been when I basically like walk into the kitchen, tap the brick, all of my social media apps go away. I can't open them if I want to unless I physically get up, go over to the fridge again, acknowledge that I am deciding to be a bad person who hates my children and tap the thing.
16:42 Speaker 00 Again, that's not actually true, but that is sort of how it feels, which I think is the point, right? Like, I want to look at Reddit now is a thing I have to like say in my brain as I tap back on the brick. Yeah. And I think that little bit of friction is really useful. And I think you and I have talked about this before, but it's like, the, the solution to use your phone less is not just be more disciplined, which is a really annoying thing that people say. And I think is completely unrealistic for most people. It's also Not throw your phone into a river because of all the reasons this question asker is bringing up. That's not feasible, but I think you can add, you can make it harder to do the things on your phone that you don't want to do. And that will make you do them less, or at least that's been my experience.
17:23 Speaker 03 And if you can, this is easier around the house, but like make it easier to do something you don't mind as much. I have, um, I have like a USA Today book of crossword puzzles.
17:36 Speaker 03 And so they're easy enough that I'm not going to get like frustrated, but it's like.
17:40 Speaker 00 Slander for the USA Today.
17:42 Speaker 03 Okay. We all know the New York Times is, is the goat. USA Today is tricky, but you know, um, if that's sitting on the table with a pencil and it's right there. I'm like, well, I, I'll do this instead of, you know, and I have my phone like away from me. If you can kind of create the friction and if there's like, it's something you can fill that void with. So, cause my kid's going to interrupt me every.
18:09 Speaker 00 Totally.
18:09 Speaker 03 Five seconds anyway, I can put the crossword down. I don't know. I've had a little success with that. It hasn't been like, um, hasn't cured all of my phone ailments. But yeah, friction where you can add it and then like maybe something pleasant that isn't your phone.
18:27 Speaker 00 One piece of advice I give to people now is set up your phone aspirationally. Don't set up your phone as a response to how you actually use your phone. Set up your phone as a response to how you would like to use your phone. So it's like, I have the Kindle app on my home screen. Do I open the Kindle app as one of the 10 most opened apps on my phone? God, no, but I'd like to. And so, so I'm trying to, I'm trying to put good habits right in front of my face. It's like shoving the junk food to the back of the cabinet, right? Like, you don't have to get rid of junk food. Just make it, make it so that you have to reach past the good stuff. And, and you maybe won't just slightly more often.
19:03 Speaker 03 Yeah. Dress for the job you want.
19:05 Speaker 00 Exactly.
19:08 Speaker 00 Dress your phone for the job it wants, not for the job.
19:11 Speaker 03 Yeah, exactly.
19:12 Speaker 00 That's really good, Allison. I like that. We're going to put that on a T-shirt. We're going to put that on a phone case is what we're going to do.
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21:18 Speaker 00 All right, let's get to our next question.
21:20 Speaker 09 Hey David, this is Alan from Minnesota. My burning thoughts or question, you know, we all talk about how, you know, it's so hard to leave iPhone because even though we like Android on, you know, on principle, or we like most things about it, we just can't, we just can't, we have to make a two-year decision every time we choose a phone, which makes it impossible to choose a dumber phone, a light phone, an e-ink based phone. What if the future of all of this is just maximum portability? I was astounded in my switching to, you know, one of the Mint Mobile like carriers,
22:00 Speaker 09 I won't say which ones, the MVMOs, how simple it is to just go back and forth between phones. As an app developer, I can switch between Android and iOS. And really, the only, it takes, you know, maybe an hour, but it works pretty seamlessly and their support's really good. And I've tried to do that on Verizon before and it takes like a day and I have to open a new account. And I almost wonder if the mainstream carriers create that kind of friction as a feature to keep their customers locked in to making two-year phone decisions. And so I'm wondering if the future of all of this and all of these types of devices is just one-click portability.
22:38 Speaker 00 Allison, this is yet again, one of the things we keep talking about. You switch phones all the time. I want to separate this question into two parts. One is, is there a grand conspiracy afoot to make it hard for you to switch phones and/or carriers? And two, if we can fix that, can we make everybody's phone lives better? So let's, let's start with the first part here. What do you, what do you think? Is it, why is it so hard to switch phones and carriers?
23:06 Speaker 03 Man, I spend a lot of time thinking about this.
23:11 Speaker 03 I think, like, some of it, I believe, is real. You don't want to make it like, too easy for someone to impersonate another person and be like... I want to put my phone line on this phone and steal all your crap or whatever.
23:26 Speaker 00 Sure. If I can call and be like, hey, it's me, Allison. Put my number on this phone instead.
23:29 Speaker 03 Yeah.
23:30 Speaker 00 Then we have a problem.
23:31 Speaker 03 Like, I get that. I concede that. I think, I think there's some shenanigans and I personally deal with Verizon when I need to make a SIM maneuver that I can't handle myself. And it's, it like has gotten better, but I think it has reinforced, it's like the move to eSIM is kind of, you would think it would open things up a little bit and it maybe it will, but so far it has just kind of reinforced the boundaries of like, it is real easy to switch an eSIM from an iPhone to an iPhone and I don't lose any sleep over that.
24:13 Speaker 00 Right.
24:14 Speaker 03 iPhone to Android or Android to iPhone is like
24:17 Speaker 00 Horrible.
24:17 Speaker 03 a coin toss. I'm like, I don't know. This might work. I might be at the Verizon store in 20 minutes, you know? So that has, I, I, I keep hearing from both of these companies from Apple and Google, they're like working on it and it's getting a little better and it, it, it sort of is, I don't know if that solves every problem. I mean, there's still the, the iMessage and FaceTime of it all. So if you're making a conscious decision to like use a light phone on the weekends, you're, you know, probably fine not having iMessage and FaceTime. But for a, a person who's just kind of like, well, I want to have, you know, this like little
25:02 Speaker 03 Pixel phone and it only has certain apps on it and it's the one I'm going to use when I want less distractions. It's, it's still a little, little hairy out there.
25:13 Speaker 00 Yeah. I think what, what I should say is to everyone who is listening to and watching this, who is not in the United States of America, please understand that I, I know that you're screaming at your device. This is how it works everywhere else.
25:26 Speaker 03 Yes.
25:27 Speaker 00 I understand that. I do. I think that is largely the correct way where Essentially, your account is your SIM card and you can put that SIM card into any phone that you want. And by and large, it will work. It's not exactly like that, but it's kind of like that. The flip side is now the thing that you're actually tied to is WhatsApp, right? Like my, the, the way I'm locked into my iPhone is the way that you, dear Europeans, are locked into WhatsApp. And that is, it's, it's a cheaper thing to be locked into, certainly. But it actually has maybe even higher switching costs. So I think, I think your, your point is the right one, that actually, even if you make it super portable to jump from device to device, there are a lot of other problems, right? That like, every time you turn off iMessage, you just won't get messages for a while.
26:12 Speaker 00 You will just miss messages. It's just a thing that happens. Every time you switch, you have to learn new interfaces. Like these, these things are just complicated. But I do wonder, and I'm, I'm just like, if, if we could just, when they appoint us, the heads of phones, you and I have become the czars of phones for the world.
26:30 Speaker 03 Love it.
26:30 Speaker 00 And we just destroy all switching costs. And all of a sudden, it is, it is free and it is fast. And there are no technical thresholds to jump over. That all I have to do is say, I use this phone now and all of my stuff, all of my data, all of my messages, everything moves from device to device. Is this even a thing people would do, right? Like, there's this theory of, oh, I'm going to have a phone during the week and I'm going to have a dumb phone on the weekends, or I'm going to have a vacation phone or whatever. Like, is this, is this a real, actual mainstream use case, even in the very best case scenario?
27:04 Speaker 03 Yeah, I feel like not kind of the current wave, especially in the US. Another disclaimer, you know, we, um, we get our phones through our carriers pretty much. And you're usually trading in your old phone.
27:18 Speaker 00 Which is usually an old version of the phone you're about to buy. In almost every case, this is how people buy phones.
27:22 Speaker 03 Yeah.
27:23 Speaker 00 You get the new one of the one you already have.
27:25 Speaker 03 Yeah, you report to the carrier store, you say, here it is. And they give you the new one and it looks like a little bit different. Yeah, I don't know. It's, it's sticky.
27:34 Speaker 00 Yeah, there is something. I think intellectually really great about having like a dumb phone for the weekends. That I think even even in the absolute best case scenario where I just I just press two buttons and all of my stuff goes to that phone. There's actually still enough cost in chargers and in like an experience I had very recently was every time you use a new device, you have to pair it to your car, right? And that's annoying.
28:02 Speaker 03 Yeah.
28:03 Speaker 00 And so there's just you actually literally can't solve all of the problems in the world, even if you solve the sort of phone to phone problems.
28:11 Speaker 03 Yeah.
28:11 Speaker 00 The thing that gives me hope is the idea that maybe the way around this is through some of the carrier programs we're starting to see that like Verizon and T-Mobile are poking at these ideas about like, well, what if you could just have a bunch of things on your same line? Like, do you remember when Google Voice first came out a million years ago and its whole thing was just it'll ring all of your devices? It's just call forwarding, but it'll forward to a bunch of your devices all at once.
28:36 Speaker 03 Yeah.
28:37 Speaker 00 There's a group of people who were like, oh, that's awesome.
28:39 Speaker 03 Yeah.
28:39 Speaker 00 This means now any phone that I have, it can just ring to that phone. And that that turns out to be pretty meaningful. And if they can then sort of extend the rest of that experience out that I can just go in and flip a setting and it's like, okay, the Pixel phone that I've already set up and the Light phone that I've already set up, I just I'm just moving my number between them or I can have it in both. That starts to feel like something of a solution here. But I think this idea that like every phone is going to be perfectly available to you and you just have like magical, beautiful switching costs forever. I just I don't see it. It seems impossible to me.
29:13 Speaker 03 Yeah. Every phone is just a glass and aluminum box just waiting for everything to arrive. It's beautiful. I love this.
29:22 Speaker 00 It sounds lovely.
29:23 Speaker 03 Yeah, I want it.
29:24 Speaker 00 I I mean, I agree. But you're dancing around the real question here, Allison, which is, is there a grand conspiracy theory to make it hard for you to switch phones?
29:32 Speaker 03 I think.
29:32 Speaker 00 Are Google and Apple colluding to make it impossible for you to switch phones?
29:36 Speaker 03 I don't think they minded that it was difficult. I mean, especially Apple, we kind of have the receipts of like, well, we don't want to make it too easy for people to just give their kid an Android phone. All that stuff with has kind of come to light. I don't know. I think there's a little bit on the carrier part where they're like, yeah. You know, we'll, we'll make it kind of easy to, to change carriers, but not, not super easy. Like I
30:05 Speaker 00 I mean, there was a long time where if you wanted to switch carriers, you had to get a new phone number.
30:09 Speaker 03 Yeah.
30:09 Speaker 00 Like, they had to basically be bullied out of that kind of switching cost.
30:15 Speaker 00 They're not, they're not going to give this up easily.
30:17 Speaker 03 Right. Yeah.
30:18 Speaker 00 It has gotten easier and now like T-Mobile is perpetually out here with commercials being like, we'll pay your Verizon bill forever. If you just come to T-Mobile instead.
30:26 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
30:27 Speaker 00 But yeah, it, it always feels like that stuff is going to be hostile rather than
30:31 Speaker 03 Yeah.
30:32 Speaker 00 cooperative.
30:32 Speaker 03 Yeah. Like if I want to take the cellular Apple Watch off of my Verizon plan. If I bring it up at the store, they're like, oh, we can't do that here. You need to call like, uh, really? What does the customer service person have access to that? Like, you know?
30:49 Speaker 00 What is it that you do here?
30:50 Speaker 03 It's just stuff like that. They're like, oh, well, yeah, you gotta go talk to that guy. Like, sure. Okay.
30:56 Speaker 00 Yeah. My thing is like, I don't necessarily see it as sort of deliberate conspiracy so much as like,
31:04 Speaker 00 there's one person at each of these companies who works on these things and that person is like a 14 year old intern.
31:10 Speaker 03 Yeah.
31:10 Speaker 00 Uh, and so they're like, well, technically this is a team we have here that is staffed on the make it easy to transition from an iPhone to an Android phone. We're not preventing it.
31:21 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah.
31:21 Speaker 00 We're just not doing any work at all to make it possible. And we invent lots of new features without thinking for one second about what it might be like to try to use them on an Android phone. And that is both a bummer and sort of a, a completely rational decision for all of these companies to me.
31:37 Speaker 03 Yeah. Yeah. It's real.
31:39 Speaker 00 I don't know. I do feel like someone will do better on the carrier side in particular. And that will be very exciting. Like the thing where I can just have a bunch of devices all attached to my account. And, and trust that the most important things will get routed to the right places at the right time. T-Mobile is almost there. Verizon is almost there. Google Fi is almost there. Like, somebody will get that right. And I think there is a subset of people who want this kind of multi-device lifestyle, who will be all over it.
32:07 Speaker 03 Yeah. I, I welcome it. My Apple Watch has like a secret, different phone number that like, why? This is not necessary. Please solve this.
32:19 Speaker 00 Yeah, 100% agree. All right. Thank you to everybody who called and sent us emails. Keep sending questions. Keep sending questions about e-ink phones in particular so that Allison and I have an excuse to keep talking about them. Allison, good to see you. Thank you as always.
32:31 Speaker 03 Yeah, thank you.
32:32 Speaker 00 All right, that's it for the show. Thank you to Allison for being here and thank you as always for watching and listening. We love getting all of your questions. I cannot say that enough. This is one of our favorite episodes to put together every week. Thank you to everybody who writes in. [email protected] is the email. Thank you to everybody who calls. 866-VERGE11 is the hotline. Keep them all coming. Smartphones, life as a person in the world, everything else, we want to hear all of it. And as a reminder, as always, the best thing you can do to support everything we're up to here is to subscribe to The Verge. Theverge.com/subscribe. It gets you all of our podcasts ad-free, including this one. It gets you all of our exclusive newsletters. It gets you all of our coverage of phones and everything else. We're kind of rounding into phone season as we get here over the
33:13 Speaker 00 next two months. So keep it locked. Theverge.com/subscribe gets you everything. The Vergecast is a Verge production and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. This show is produced by Josh Kahas, Eric Gomez, Brandon Kiefer, Travis Larchuk, and Aaron LaCassio. We'll see you tomorrow. Rock and roll.
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