294. Dr. Deep Sea: Hyperbaric Chamber Benefits Nobody Explains Correctly

Dr. Joe Dituri, also known as Dr. Deep Sea, spent 100 straight days living underwater and walked away with lower cholesterol, longer telomeres, and twice the stem cells, so I had to get him on to break down what hyperbaric oxygen actually does. In this episode, we cover why a focused 20-day protocol might move your health-span more than any supplement stack, how his deep and REM sleep nearly doubled, and the safety rules almost no home-chamber owner knows. It genuinely shifted how I run my own chambers, and it'll shift how you think about oxygen, pressure, and aging, too. CLICK HERE TO BECOME GARY’S VIP!: https://bit.ly/4ai0Xwg Get Dr. Deep Sea’s book, “Secrets in Depth”: https://bit.ly/4q8tNat Connect with Dr. Deep Sea Website: https://bit.ly/45IaXxs YouTube: https://bit.ly/45wPsjj Instagram: https://bit.ly/4fKDnNk Facebook: https://bit.ly/4q2E7AB X: https://bit.ly/4wKQmEy LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/4bwsvQz Thank you to our partners A-GAME: “ULTIMATE15” FOR 15% OFF: http://bit.ly/4kek1ij AION: “ULTIMATE10” FOR 10% OFF: https://bit.ly/4h6KHAD AIRES: "ULTIMATE20 " FOR 20% OFF: https://bit.ly/4a3Duze BAJA GOLD: "ULTIMATE10" FOR 10% OFF: https://bit.ly/3WSBqUa BODYHEALTH: “ULTIMATE20” FOR 20% OFF: http://bit.ly/4e5IjsV COLD LIFE: THE ULTIMATE HUMAN PLUNGE: https://bit.ly/4eULUKpCYMBIOTIKA: "BRECKACYM30" FOR 30% OFF: https://bit.ly/4tjyluP GENETIC METHYLATION TEST (UK ONLY): https://bit.ly/48QJJrk GENETIC TEST (USA ONLY): ⁠https://bit.ly/3Yg1Uk9 GOPUFF: GET YOUR FAVORITE SNACK!: https://bit.ly/4obIFDC H2TAB: “ULTIMATE10” FOR 10% OFF: https://bit.ly/4hMNdgg HEALF: 10% OFF YOUR ORDER: https://bit.ly/41HJg6S PEPTUAL: “TUH10” FOR 10% OFF: https://bit.ly/4mKxgcn SNOOZE: LET’S GET TO SLEEP!: https://bit.ly/4pt1T6V WHOOP: JOIN & GET 1 FREE MONTH!: https://bit.ly/3VQ0nzW Watch the “Ultimate Human Podcast” every Tuesday & Thursday at 9AM EST: YouTube: https://bit.ly/3RPQYX8 Podcasts: https://bit.ly/3RQftU0 Connect with Gary Brecka Instagram: https://bit.ly/3RPpnFs TikTok: https://bit.ly/4coJ8foX: https://bit.ly/3Opc8tf Facebook: https://bit.ly/464VA1H LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/4hH7Ri2 Website: https://bit.ly/4eLDbdU Merch: https://bit.ly/4aBpOM1 Newsletter: https://bit.ly/47ejrws Ask Gary: https://bit.ly/3PEAJuG Timestamps 00:00 - ​Intro of Show 01:52 - The 100-day underwater world record 02:13 - Cholesterol, stem cell, and telomere results 02:50 - From Navy diver to hyperbaric medicine 05:35 - The largest TBI study ever run 06:34 - The 13 mechanisms of action 08:58 - Why pressure and dose matter 11:03 - The $101 million X Prize 13:24 - The hyperoxic-hypoxic chamber 16:16 - Doubling stem cells in five days 24:06 - Why more is never better 26:18 - Deep and REM sleep underwater 32:18 - Intermittent hypoxia and mitochondria 42:54 - Altitude and legal blood doping 47:43 - A 100-year safety record 52:44 - His stroke and the road back 01:06:48 - Oxygen, sugar, and cancer research 01:14:10 - Stacking sauna, ice, and red light 01:16:57 - The sauna-before-bed sleep hack 01:20:30 - What it means to be an ultimate human Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and does not provide medical advice. It is not intended for diagnosing or treating any health condition. Always consult a licensed healthcare professional before making health or wellness decisions. Gary Brecka is the owner of Ultimate Human, LLC which operates The Ultimate Human podcast and promotes certain third-party products used by Gary Brecka in his personal health and wellness protocols and daily life and for which Ultimate Human LLC and / or Gary Brecka directly or indirectly holds an economic interest or receives compensation. Accordingly, statements made by Gary Brecka and others (including on The Ultimate Human podcast) may be considered promotional in nature. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  The simple truth here is that your life is supposed to be hard. Hormetic stressors are there for a reason. All these hormetic stressors put together, when you go to the gym, when you go to the ice bath, when you go to the red light, all that stuff is actually good for you. So when you do that, you can make the mitochondria more efficient.

• 0:16Speaker 01

  So hyperbarics are providing a hormetic stress. This hormetic stress, applied intermittently, seems to be having a very positive effect on the mitochondria, which to me would be the hallmark of age reversal.

• 0:29Speaker 00

  Hyper means more than, baric means pressure. That's it. You just increase the pressure, you get that benefit.

• 0:35Speaker 01

  Using gas, pressure, hormetic stress, these are all things that we have a lot of data on in terms of strengthening the body and improving performance and function. And I think most people are after that cognitive benefit as much as they are physical benefit.

• 0:50Speaker 00

  Hyperbaric oxygen doesn't cure anything, but it helps your body help itself. And that's what we want. We want an organism that will fix itself better.

• 0:59Speaker 01

  Where do you see the future of biohacking slash recreational hyperbarics going?

• 1:05Speaker 00

  The interesting thing that we just found out and we've come through and the science isn't done yet on it, but.

• 1:24Speaker 01

  Hey guys, welcome back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. I'm your host, human biologist Gary Brecka, where we go down the road of everything, anti-aging, biohacking, longevity, and everything in between. This is an anti-aging, longevity, and biohacking, and in between podcast.

• 1:42Speaker 01

  I've probably said this before, but I mean it today. I don't recall being so excited about a guest coming on my podcast because it happens to be an area where of the biohacking community that I think is just in its infancy. I think the implications of this biohack, if you want to call it that, are profound. He is leading the way in research, conducting some of the largest TBI studies ever conducted in the world. He's done experiments on himself, experiments on other people. He has a background in this biohack and I am so excited to sit down with Dr. DeTuri, AKA Dr. Deep Sea. How are you, my brother?

• 2:20Speaker 00

  I'm well, I'm well, thank you. Glorious introduction.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  Most people heard about you, a lot of people, was when Joe Rogan was talking about you on a podcast. He's like, you ever see this guy? This dude like lived under the ocean for like a hundred days. Hyperbaric chamber. Pulls up your, your, your story. And, and I've gotten to be good friends with Joe, been on his podcast a couple of times, but I saw that, started going down the rabbit hole. Met your co-author, Dr. Saunders.

• 2:52Speaker 00

  Dr. Saunders.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is the bible of hyperbaric medicine. I'm, I'm so excited for this podcast. And, you know, your, your, your background is a Navy diver. You know, left the Navy, went to school for biomedical engineering. You know, suffered a TBI, I want to say in 2023.

• 3:16Speaker 00

  21.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  2021. 2023 was when you set the world record.

• 3:20Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  Hundred days, 22 feet underwater.

• 3:24Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Just south of me right here, in the Keys.

• 3:26Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  And, and if I recall, I remember reading some of the outcomes. This is what really zoned me in on hyperbaric therapy. You had a 71% reduction in your cholesterol.

• 3:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:37Speaker 01

  You had like a thousand percent increase in stem cells.

• 3:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  You had telomere lengthening.

• 3:43Speaker 00

  Yep, 17%.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  A 17% telomere lengthening. Now, and albeit this is an N of one, I get you science nerds out there, calm down. We're not making a medical claim. And then you lost like a quarter of an inch or half an inch, right? I don't know how you got shorter, but you did. So everybody's like, screw hyperbarics, I don't want to get smaller.

• 4:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  Is, is that what sparked your interest in, in, in hyperbarics? How did you get down the road of hyperbaric medicine?

• 4:14Speaker 00

  In hyperbaric medicine? Oh, wow, that's actually a great question. All right, so I was a Navy diver. We used recompression chambers and then, you know, I got to mobile diving salvage unit. And when we're at one of these mobile diving salvage units, the doctor was like, hey, by the way, we're gonna, we're gonna treat this old guy who's got a little bit of cancer in his, in his jaw. I said, we're gonna treat him. And I said, wait, wait, you can, you can treat these guys? I was young, right? I was like, you can treat other people and I, not just decompression sickness? And it's like, we're going back a million years too, right? So I was like, really? I'm interested. Let me, tell me more, tell me more. So she starts telling me more, more, more, more, more. All of a sudden, I'm like, oh, at that time, there were 12 approved indications. Now there's 15, right?

• 4:57Speaker 00

  On-label FDA cleared sort of indications. And now it's like, oh, wow, we can use this for other things. This is a very powerful drug. So I stepped back and I go, what are the mechanisms of action? And everybody's looking at me like I got 10 heads. And I'm like, no, that's how we prescribe every drug in the world is by its mechanism of action. And they're like, oh, so that's kind of.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  We don't know, we just know that it works.

• 5:19Speaker 00

  We know that it works. You know, I'm like, well, science wins over bullshit. Let's fix that.

• 5:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay. So that's, that's, because you, you, you didn't get your PhD until you got out of the Navy.

• 5:29Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Right? And, and so something must have, you know, led you in your later adult time to say, you know, I want to go into biomedical engineering and get, and get this PhD, which most people don't wake up in midlife and decide the day they want to do that.

• 5:42Speaker 00

  So what had happened was.

• 5:44Speaker 01

  What had happened was?

• 5:45Speaker 00

  I'm, you know, I'm retiring and we're talking with Admiral Bill McRaven and, you know, another friend of mine, Admiral Ed Winters. And they're like, hey, what are you going to be when you grow up Aquanaut? And I'm like, well, you know, I don't know, but I don't want to come work for you. He's like, no, no, no, help me because like, can you sit on the preservation of the force and family? And I said, okay, that sounds good. So we dealt with people with TBIs and this is a great thing, right? Here we are, we're helping our guys, right? I'm retired, I'm the old gray beard sort of at this point. And they're like, yeah, yeah, we can, we can push you down.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Veterans with TBIs, yeah.

• 6:16Speaker 00

  Veterans with TBIs or, and even active duty guys with TBIs. And how do we fix that, right? So Admiral McRaven was terrific because he wanted to look at the preservation of the force and family, right? So he was looking at this whole setup, trying to make everybody better. Okay, great. So I go back to after six months and I talked to him and I go, look, this is just not working. And I says, and he looks me dead in the eye and he goes, permission granted Aquanaut, fix the problem. And I'm like, oh shit. Now I gotta, I gotta go back to school because I'm not smart enough for this. So I go back to school, I get a PhD in biomedical engineering and then I start doing clinical research in traumatic brain injury. It's like, okay.

• 6:54Speaker 01

  Wow. And now you're running the largest TBI study ever conducted at USF, right?

• 6:59Speaker 00

  I'm not running it. I was one of the members when I was the assistant vice president of the University of South Florida. I stepped away from that in December only because it's now moving, right? Now it's moving, it's time to, I'm a, I'm a doer, not a, not a talk about doing. So academia moves a little slow.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:17Speaker 00

  I want to go fast.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do, I, I feel you. But this may be a very profound study when it's, when it's published.

• 7:25Speaker 00

  It will change things, that's for sure. And it was done with a placebo, randomized, double-blind. It's, it's done the right way. Yeah, it's all the bells and whistles.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  And as I understand, it's, it's 73, 75 minutes, five days a week.

• 7:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  Hundred percent O2.

• 7:42Speaker 00

  Exactly. Hundred percent O2 or placebo.

• 7:45Speaker 01

  Or placebo, yeah.

• 7:46Speaker 00

  Yep, air at zero feet. And, you know, we, we're doing it the right way. It's 40 treatments long, so it's basically a two-month-long protocol, if you will. And, you know, we'll see is the answer.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  And can you tell us what, let's, let's talk about mechanisms of action. Because I'm a fan of hyperbarics. I would say I'm a recreational hyperbaric user and I would like to become more than a recreational user. I've got, I've got hyperbarics in every home. And I'm invested a lot in hyperbarics. Personally, I'd rather have a hyperbaric chamber than a Ferrari. Cause I don't, I don't have a, a car problem or a watch problem. I have a, I have a, like a biohacking problem. I keep telling my wife, I have a little biohacking addiction. If you see my garage downstairs, it's like a biohacking hoarder. You know, it's like one of those, like, like, you know, docu-series, you know, on, on hoarding. But you know, I understand mechanistically.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  We're increasing atmospheric pressure,

• 8:46Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  Which decreases the size of oxygen and other gases. And therefore, they should be able to perfuse tissues more thoroughly. And probably in areas where they otherwise wouldn't get good saturation.

• 8:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  So let's say connective tissues, ligaments, tendons, you know, areas of the brain that are not served by, you know, healthy vascular flow, compromised blood flow and people with vasomotor circulation compromise. I think the literature is super clear on

• 9:18Speaker 01

  post-surgical recovery, wound.

• 9:20Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  You know, there's a lot of information out there on diabetic ulcer. You know, those, those types of things.

• 9:26Speaker 00

  The common ones, right?

• 9:27Speaker 01

  The common ones.

• 9:28Speaker 00

  The osteonecrosis, the gaseous gangreas, they're like, oh, they're horrible.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  But yeah.

• 9:32Speaker 00

  They're really well, really well looked after and they work.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, especially if you have like an anaerobic infection, right?

• 9:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, that makes perfect sense, right? I mean, so logically you can put the mechanism of action with the treatment. So we have 13 known mechanisms of action. Let me step back and say that again. This is like a super drug. It's not like a super drug. It is a super drug. It's classified as a drug by the USP, right? US Pharmacopeia says it's a drug. Okay, hyperbaric oxygen is a drug. But, you know, aspirin, what has that got? Three, four, five mechanisms of action? Gabapentin, three, you know, there's a couple of these that GLP-1s, there's three or four of those. Increase cerebral blood flow, you know, it does the weight thing. And but that's all great. Hyperbaric oxygen, 13. It is the super drug of super drugs. I don't even know what to say.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  Wow. And, and, you know, I was talking to Dr. Saunders about this too. Is it dose-dependent, pressure-dependent? Do different things happen at different pressures? Is there an ideal pressure? Is there an ideal oxygen saturation? Because, you know, like I have a soft chamber in my bedroom. It goes to about 1.3 ish. I've got a hard shell in, in, in the gym that'll go to two atmospheres. I think it'll go higher. I think it's governed to two atmospheres.

• 10:49Speaker 01

  And I know that certain benefits occur at certain pressures. But one of the things that Saunders was telling me is like, it's not always more pressure is more result. It's, it's different hormetic stress.

• 11:01Speaker 00

  Right.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  Providing a different outcome. And I'd love to unpack that with you.

• 11:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's, it's huge and nobody really knows the real answer. So I'll be speaking in tongue on this, kind of just trying to figure it out. But realistically, we know that certain pressures do certain things. And, you know, what mechanism of action do you want to work? The more powerful anti-inflammatory natures, that seems to be in the lower pressures. The 1.3, 4, 5, something like that. The brain seems to tolerate 1.5, 6, 7 better than 2.0, 2.5, 3.0, right? So, but if you want hyperoxygenation as a mechanism of action or leukocyte oxidative killing, you need to be in the 2.5 to 3.0 range, right? You want to crush the bubble, you need the more pressure, that kind of stuff. So there's a lot of different things. You've just got to play with it, right?

• 11:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:50Speaker 00

  Here's the interesting thing that we just found out and we've come through and the science isn't done yet on it. But varying the hyperbaric oxygen protocol does different things. And it stimulates that hormetic response.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  Well, now you're jumping to the, your X Prize, right? I mean, so let's jump there because I, and then I want to go back to some of what you saw when you were 22 feet underwater. Cause that's not even quite two atmospheres, right? So that's like, what, 1.5 ish?

• 12:19Speaker 00

  1, 1.6, 1.7, something like that.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  1.6, 1.7, because I want to talk about that because the outcomes were pretty profound and I, and.

• 12:26Speaker 00

  We'll go where you want, you're in charge.

• 12:27Speaker 01

  So, so let's jump to the, to the X Prize. For those of you that don't know what this is, it's a $101 million winner take all prize. I believe this year's was to extend healthy lifespan by 20 years.

• 12:40Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 12:41Speaker 01

  That was sort of the framework. About 765 potential contestants. That's down under 100 now, right?

• 12:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, it got to 100. We were one of the 100 finalists that team Arizona State University health span, team health span.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 12:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:55Speaker 01

  And has that 100 narrowed or you'll know?

• 12:57Speaker 00

  Not yet, we'll know in July. So fingers crossed we'll be the final 10.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. If you split the 100 million with me, I'll grease some people behind the scenes for it.

• 13:07Speaker 00

  Do you know Pete?

• 13:08Speaker 01

  I do. Peter Diamantis, dude, come on, buddy. Give it to this guy. Come on, Elon Musk. So $101 million winner take all and to add 20 years to healthy lifespan. And I, and I love how they define that as not just lifespan, but healthy lifespan. So you're actually pushing the lifespan out with the health span, which I think is the hallmark of success in the anti, in anti-aging. None of, none of us just want to live another 30, 40 years.

• 13:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, who cares if you're a persistent vegetative state? I don't care.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 13:41Speaker 00

  I want to live shorter, not longer.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  Be independent. We don't want to be assisted with the activities of daily living. We want independent livings. Like how many healthy, independent years can I have? And then God call me back, you know?

• 13:53Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  So, so in, in this realm, you know, what I find fascinating is you, you with HBO Tech, which I'm a huge fan, I have an HBO Tech hyperbaric chamber. I'm putting these in all my ultimate longevity centers. I think they're fantastic manufacturer. You created and designed a one of a kind, at least today it's one of a kind, hyperoxic, hypoxic.

• 14:19Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  Chamber. And that means that you take a hyperbaric chamber and you provide the subject with oxygen deprivation and then oxygen excess.

• 14:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  Right, so, you know, for those folks that are watching, sea level is 21% oxygen. So hyperoxia is going to be above 21%. Hypoxia is going to be below that or simulating altitude, right? I mean, the higher you go, the thinner the air.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  And you're seeing some pretty incredible results.

• 14:48Speaker 00

  Really great.

• 14:48Speaker 01

  Like.

• 14:49Speaker 00

  Really great.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  I was reading your report, like 8.2 years, 8.6 years.

• 14:53Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  That you guys are at right now.

• 14:55Speaker 00

  Did they share that results with you?

• 14:57Speaker 01

  I don't know, somebody told me.

• 14:58Speaker 00

  You may or may not have seen it because I may or may not have been allowed to share it with you.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  Okay, so you won't, you didn't share it with me. But that is profound. You are not far into the study yet. This is not a years-long study.

• 15:10Speaker 00

  No, this is, and the cool thing is you give me 20 days, I can give you between eight to almost 20 years if you give me 20 days.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  20 consecutive or five on, two off?

• 15:21Speaker 00

  25 days on, two days off, five days on, two. So give me 30 days technically, 28 days, right?

• 15:25Speaker 01

  So 20, 20 days of hyperbaric?

• 15:28Speaker 00

  20 days of hyper, hypo barics. But it's not just that, right? This, the simple truth here is that your life is supposed to be hard. Everybody's trying to have the easy life. Everybody wants the greased streets, everybody, no, it's supposed to be hard. Hormetic stressors are there for a reason, right?

• 15:43Speaker 01

  To strengthen us.

• 15:44Speaker 00

  To strengthen us, exactly. We go to the gym, right? And we work out, right? Look at the guns, the gunshot. So, you know, we go to the gym and work out and we get that we accept failure in the gym because we need failure, right? But we don't do that in the rest of the areas of our life. So hypoxia, hyperoxia, you know, red light therapy is a hormetic stress. You know, we have cold plunge, we have, you know, the saunas, right? We have several of these things. The hormetic stress from eating the right kind of food that is stressed, right? What's the best tasting strawberry? The one that's been through the hard winter that really got stressed? That's the best tasting and it's also the best for you.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:23Speaker 00

  So that kind of hormetic stress from eating that kind of stuff. It's, these are great things, but your body needs to go through this.

• 16:31Speaker 01

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• 17:12Speaker 01

  Visit theultimate snooze.com and use code ULTIMATE for 10% off. Now let's get to sleep. Now let's get back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. So, so hyperbarics are providing a hormetic stress. So let's just start with taking ambient air, compressing it, and then the atmospheric pressure is, you know, the multiples that you're providing this pressure. Just that alone, let's say, not adding oxygen, not 100% O2, getting in a hyperbaric chamber, soft chamber, let's say that goes to 1.3 atmospheres. What are some of the benefits of that? I mean, more and more people are putting these in their house. They're, they're, they're getting these certified chambers, doing an hour and 90 minutes

• 17:54Speaker 01

  a day. What can they expect from it? What does the science say about regular use of hyperbarics?

• 18:00Speaker 00

  So PhD researcher went in, did five treatments in an air-only chamber at 1.27 ATA, which is basically like, you know, 10 feet. It's 10 feet underwater, right? You, you got one that can go that deep too, right? Just using air. Five days, one hour at a pop, he doubled the number of circulating stem cells.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 18:23Speaker 00

  Five days. And this is, did the flow cytometry. This is real science. And, and you know me, science wins over bullshit, right?

• 18:30Speaker 01

  These are, these are stem cells migrating from your bone marrow into circulation.

• 18:33Speaker 00

  CD34 plus progenitor stem cells. Like this is the good, this is the gold card, right? This is the wild card, right? This is what you need. So, you know, now what does that mean? I don't know what that means, but doubling stem cells is not a horrible thing.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And so, and that was at 1.27. And then, you know, a lot of these chambers, 1.5, two atmospheres. So as you increase the pressure in a hyperbaric chamber, what's happening physiologically to the body, aside from the gas getting smaller?

• 19:04Speaker 00

  So, look, you cannot, you cannot squish the human body, right? I mean, basically, you're made mostly of water and water is pretty much incompressible, right? At, at thousands of feet, it gets compressible, but that's not important, right? So, but you're incompressible, if you will. So as long as your gas spaces are full, you can, I mean, the deepest recorded dive is 2,265 feet or something.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  For a human?

• 19:26Speaker 00

  For a human. Oh, yeah. My deepest dive is 1,947 feet.

• 19:31Speaker 01

  Your deepest dive? That's like the, what's that, the Titanic thing that just crumpled like a can?

• 19:36Speaker 00

  5,000 feet. That was 5,600 feet. No, that's crazy.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  You, you dove almost 2,000 feet?

• 19:41Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, so, so the deepest dives that we do are, you know, we can go to 2,000 feet, we can go to 20. I think the French just went a little deeper than that, to be honest with you. So it might be like 2,300 feet now. But the, humans can go deep. That's not the problem. The problem is the gas mixture that you're breathing, right? Because when you go to twice the atmosphere, you're effectively breathing twice the oxygen concentration. Then the fire risk goes up. Then the, right? You know, you have the nitrogen narcotics, the narcotic potential. You know, we were talking about hydrogen gases. Everybody's like, oh, let's stack modalities. I'm like, please don't do it inside a hyperbaric chamber.

• 20:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, not in, not in a chamber, no.

• 20:18Speaker 00

  Let's put hydrogen in red light in a hyperbaric chamber. I'm like, no, no, don't do that.

• 20:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, definitely. I, I mean, I do them separately or in sequence. Yeah.

• 20:28Speaker 00

  I love that.

• 20:29Speaker 01

  So, so as you increase the pressure, because you know, what I do is I get my hyperbaric chamber, four or five days a week, two atmospheres of pressure, I am going to stop using a nasal cannula and either use a sealed rebreather, like the HBO tech. Cause now you, you've made a case that makes perfect sense to me where oxygen is coming in, CO2 is going out, but it's not entering the chamber. It's just entering my lungs and then, and then going out of the chamber. So you don't have this excess, because you know, I've always been under the auspice incorrectly, that 100% oxygen is combustible and, and flammable.

• 21:09Speaker 00

  Interestingly enough, oxygen says right on it, if you read on the side of it, on the side of the bottle, colorless, odorless, non-flammable gas. Oxygen's not flammable. It's an accelerant. It'll accelerate the flammability of anything that it gets in touch with, but it is non-flammable. So the oxygen itself won't burn.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 21:31Speaker 00

  That's just an interesting tidbit of information.

• 21:33Speaker 01

  It's just providing the resources for something that is burning.

• 21:36Speaker 00

  Right. It's the third part of the fire triangle, right?

• 21:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 21:39Speaker 00

  So it's like heat, fuel, oxygen. If you don't have any of those three, you're not going to burn anything. When you have more oxygen, you're going to burn it more.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  And higher and hotter.

• 21:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  So, so either if, so if you're going to increase the oxygen saturation, other than using ambient compressed air, right? Ambient compressed air, probably the safest.

• 22:00Speaker 00

  Just fine.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  Just in a, in a chamber that's not a dead chamber, that's circulating air, you're two atmospheres, you're getting enough of a benefit if you're a longevity, not like I am, and you want to be doing hyperbarics for longevity, safe in, you know, up to two atmospheres, just using regular compressed gas.

• 22:19Speaker 00

  Yeah. Regular compressed air. It's just, it's called scuba diving.

• 22:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. Am I, am I missing anything? Like, I feel like I'm cheating myself by not adding the oxygen? Am I gonna?

• 22:29Speaker 00

  No. What mechanism of action do you want it play? If hyperoxygenation is one of them, add the oxygen in the safe way, right? You gotta do it safely.

• 22:38Speaker 01

  Sealed rebreather.

• 22:38Speaker 00

  Yeah. Some sort of a rebreather, recirculator. We call it a bibs mask in a hyperbaric chamber, built-in breathing system. You gotta have that kind of a thing. Yeah.

• 22:48Speaker 01

  For 90 minutes, I'm like, get this thing off my face.

• 22:50Speaker 00

  Yeah. I don't know. I love that feeling because it gives me that. So when I breathe in, what do I want? I really want all the oxygen, right? I don't want the 15% increase with the nasal cannula, right? I don't want the non-rebreather mask with this silly little bag doing this. And then where does all that exhaled oxygen go? Right into the hyperbaric chamber, which is only designed for air, not oxygen. So you just, you know. Yeah. So you don't want your exhaled oxygen-filled gas touching any of the stuff in the chamber. I mean, it could be really dangerous, right?

• 23:25Speaker 01

  Right. So now, so you can, you can use a chamber that's just circulating the air, 1.5, two atmospheres, safe, or use a rebreather if you want to increase the oxygen concentration. The ones that I, until this recent accident, heard that, you know, really exploded, were the ones that had 100% O2. There was a terrible story of the young kid, I think he wasn't grounded and I could get a blanket or something.

• 23:54Speaker 00

  That was horrible.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  And a little static electricity.

• 23:56Speaker 00

  Unfortunately, when you're in this business and you see these things, you can't unsee that video. That is a horrible nightmare, right? Of, we knew the answer, right? And most of these rules, they're really written in blood, right? Because, oh, why do we ground people? Because stupid things like that happen, right? When you don't ground people. So it's like, I didn't know. Oh, you knew. Come on. Everybody knew. So, yeah, it's unfortunate, but.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. So where do you see the future of biohacking slash recreational hyperbarics going? If, you know, this, this adoption of hyperbarics seems to be going parabolic, I think that there is a paucity of information out there. I would consider myself, you know, very much among the know. And, and I'm not even aware of some of these safety risks. This is why I'm excited to do this podcast, because just laying it out there, hopefully will help a lot of people use these in the proper way. They're not toys.

• 24:57Speaker 00

  And you should be lauded for that, trust me. Because the people that are out there that are just kind of faking it till you make it, this is not the thing. So, thank you, thank you, thank you for going. Hey, listen, I want to learn a little bit on this. Please and thank you.

• 25:10Speaker 01

  I really do. I mean, I want to do it right. I mean, you know, obviously I'd love to be in there with my red light max, my hydrogen running in NAD IV, you know, on my PMF max.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  But, but you know, now we know that, listen, they're phenomenal tools. They are about to have some incredible science around longevity and, and aging, which I think is phenomenal. Not just around even the 13 indications. And if people use them safely, they can get long-term use and long-term benefit out of them. And I mean, that's, that's the objective, right? It's, it's the same with like red light therapy, with cold plunging, with all of these things. More is not better. You know, colder and longer is not better. Longer in a red light bed, higher milliwatts of irradiance. You know, there's therapeutic ranges that the body responds to and, and just get that dose and move on. You know,

• 26:07Speaker 01

  get your benefit and move on. Not, you know, the, I have that, that, that sort of inclination to that if some is good, more is better, right? So I want to resist that, especially when it comes to hyperbarics.

• 26:20Speaker 00

  You say more is better. And it's just a funny, funny joke because I treat a bunch of military guys, right? And these guys come in and they're like, I can do five minutes. I can do seven minutes. I can do 12 minutes. I can do five. These kids were up to 18 minutes in the ice bath. And I'm like, and we do 32 degrees, right? And I'm like, that's it. You're done. Nobody can go over five minutes. You're done.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  By the way, after that, the hormetic stress is over.

• 26:42Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 26:43Speaker 01

  Right?

• 26:44Speaker 00

  And they're out, they're like.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that's not good, you know? I mean, I saw a video on someone on Instagram a few months ago. I actually, I won't say who it was, but I messaged him privately and said, hey, you should take that down. But what he did was he took a snorkel, went underwater in 35 degree water for 12 minutes. And was just breathing through a snorkel and then put it on social media. I'm like, man, your brain is this far inside the surface of your skull. Yeah. It's not good to bake it. It's not good to fry it.

• 27:15Speaker 00

  Not good to bake it. Why do you think they wear hats inside the sauna for crying out loud? Come on.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  I do the same thing. So again, the more is not, not better. So soft chambers, great. Hard chambers.

• 27:26Speaker 00

  It works. I mean, is it great? Is it going to cure your, you know, your aseptic bone necrosis? Nope. Soft chamber will not do that. But can it help you double your stem cells? Yes, we have the science behind that. Can it help you fix, heal better? Yeah, it can, you know, but we don't have a lot of detail in there. But yeah, you know, we gotta get more science.

• 27:45Speaker 01

  One of the interesting things that I seem to be swaying towards too, is, is how it, it's almost like a sleep mimetic. Because like during the deep phases of sleep, when the glymphatic system is draining and you're getting, you're eliminating waste from the brain cytokines, histamines through these glymphatic channels that are, that are opening during deep sleep. Similar physiology is going on with hyperbarics, right? With oxygen perfusion into tissues. I'm not saying it's a replacement.

• 28:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know. We're, we're increasing the metabolism in the human body, right? So we're up, upping the metabolism, which makes you more tired, which, you know, so like you wanted to go to the, I don't know if it's this time, but you know, talking about the underwater stay, right? When I stayed underwater, first of all, in the first 25 days, I lost 22 pounds.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  You lost 22 pounds?

• 28:33Speaker 00

  22 pounds. So my medical team said, because my metabolism was through the roof. My medical team said, that's it. You're done. Now you're up to, you know, 1.75 milligrams per kilogram body weight of protein. We gotta double it. You, you, you cannot waste away to nothing. That's not going to work here, right? So, you know, that kind of stuff. But we talked about, you talk about deep and REM sleep. Normally a human sleeps between 30 and 33% in deep and REM. Underwater, 60 to 66% in deep and REM. Every single person that came down with an Apple Watch or an Oura ring or a Fitbit or whatever the heck they had, they all correlated almost exactly 50 to 60.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  People would come stay with you.

• 29:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, I had a couple of people come and stay.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  How big was this thing?

• 29:16Speaker 00

  It wasn't as big as your studio.

• 29:18Speaker 01

  No way. Were you just going out of your mind after 100 days?

• 29:21Speaker 00

  No.

• 29:22Speaker 01

  It's like a bedroom.

• 29:24Speaker 00

  I will tell you, so, so it was maybe this wide and maybe 17 feet long worth of usable space. So, and then there was another side to it, exactly the same. And then a wet pot in between that you had to duck down in. You know, I can get you pictures of it.

• 29:41Speaker 01

  Where people could come and dock and come in.

• 29:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, you come in and you, you know, you're getting, it's your wet room, if you will. Okay. Where you shower, where you go to the bathroom, you know, that kind of stuff.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  Okay. So, so deep and REM phases of sleep, because obviously you're sleeping there.

• 29:57Speaker 00

  Double.

• 29:57Speaker 01

  This, wow.

• 29:58Speaker 00

  So 70 million Americans alone have sleep issues, right? And I doubled my deep and REM. So then what else happened, right? So this is how we don't know where the results, what happened and how the results got so good, right? Was it the sleep that healed me better, faster? Was it the sleep that made me cognitively 13%, you know, 13% better connectivity and a 5% reduction in phase lag? I mean, holy mackerel.

• 30:25Speaker 01

  And were you doing like QEEGs?

• 30:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was doing EEGs every, every other day. Now, if you've not set up your own EEG, your new EEG, beautiful, brilliant. Mine, it was like four hours of your life that you'll never get back.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  Sticking them on the head kind of thing? Yeah. Yeah.

• 30:41Speaker 00

  Trying to get the thing to work, you know, trying to, it's crazy.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:46Speaker 00

  So, but you know, we did those and, and the quantifiable data is there. Now EEGs are, they're okay. They're good. But you know, they're not perfect, right? You know, we're, we're looking for the, the perfect telltale how to read inside the brain. But you know, it's the one thing that we don't even open up.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. But you had a, you had an increase in telomere lengths. You also had a 71% decrease in cholesterol.

• 31:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, I had a pretty substantial decrease in cholesterol. So I don't remember if it was.

• 31:13Speaker 01

  That was the solution for lipolipol A. That would be great. Right?

• 31:16Speaker 00

  So the, the cholesterol drop, everybody's like, well, it's because you weren't drinking alcohol and you know, you drink alcohol. And I says, no, that's not true. They're like, what? I'm like, I'm a scientist, right? So like you have to treat yourself how you do before, how you do during, and how you do afterwards. So, you know, I had a drop.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  I wonder what the hell you do with all your time down. I'd be drinking gin and I don't even drink.

• 31:39Speaker 00

  So it wasn't like that. We were really doing science. I mean, literally while I was underwater, I'd wake up every morning at five o'clock and I used to drink coffee. Like I told you, I don't drink coffee anymore. But two, three cups of coffee would be my staple. And then, you know, protein in the morning, protein in the afternoon with salad, and then protein at dinner with something green vegetable of some sort, right? That's just the way I eat, right? So that's the way I eat on the surface. That's the way I eat underwater, right? Same stuff. Occasionally I have a drink. Occasionally I have a drink. It's, I'm not saying that I did, but you know, boss, don't yell at me.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  But didn't make it into the study design, but that's okay.

• 32:15Speaker 00

  Right? So, you know, but I would work then, you know, those are just the meals. I would work probably about six or eight hours, you know, doing my science, you know, blood, urine, saliva, electrocardiograms, electroencephalograms, pulmonary function tests. I mean, we did all this great science when we were down there and pretty much every day. And then, you know, I'd do three hours worth of interviews a day. And then, you know, towards the end, I was doing like CNN, ABC, CBS, Fox, right? So it was, oh my.

• 32:43Speaker 01

  Once you had broken the Guinness Book of World's Record and you're still down there and then it became big news.

• 32:47Speaker 00

  I mean, Neil Cavuto came on board and told everybody in the world that my mother is a certain age. I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you said my mother's age. She's 49 as far as I'm concerned.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  That's great. And, and so when you got out and analyzed the data,

• 33:07Speaker 01

  what are you attributing this to? This prolonged hormetic stress? The, because part of me says that when you provide too much oxygen or too little oxygen, the body becomes adaptive.

• 33:21Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  Right? So did you adapt to the increased oxygen saturation? And then when you got back to sea level, feel like a tree slug?

• 33:31Speaker 00

  Absolutely. Right? So, so I adapted. You know, I go in, I run really hot on the hemoglobin, right? So I'm like in the 15, 16 range, right? When I came out of the water, oh yeah.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  Therapeutic for the bottom.

• 33:43Speaker 00

  Yeah. So when I came out of the water, I was in the 13s. Why? Because you're in an increased partial pressure of oxygen, thereby decreasing the need for hemoglobin. So your body stops making it. So after 100 days, I was a little sluggish. But then when I came out, you know, a couple of weeks later, I checked blood and I was like, oh, I'm right back up.

• 34:03Speaker 01

  Body came right back.

• 34:04Speaker 00

  Yeah. You know, you gotta be able to bounce. So can we live underwater long-term? Probably not. But can it be good for you? Can it be helpful? Look, hyper means more than, baric means pressure. That's it. You just increase the pressure, you get that benefit. How much or how little, that's what you gotta figure out, right? And it's not more is better, right? Like you said.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 34:23Speaker 00

  And thank you for saying that because too many people just believe, oh, more is better. I'll just go to three. But these go to 11. I'm like, no.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  Listen, there's what I share on this podcast, and then there's what I share with my inner circle. If you've been following me for a while, you know how I hold nothing back here. But my VIP community, that's where the real magic happens. Picture this. You're struggling with energy crashes, brain fog, or just feeling like you're not operating at your peak, and you don't know where to get real answers. But here's what really sets this apart. You're not just getting my insights. When I have incredible guests on the podcast, VIP members get to submit questions for our private podcast segment. So that world renowned expert we just interviewed, you get exclusive access to their knowledge tailored to your specific situation. This section is under the private podcast section in the ultimate human community.

• 35:13Speaker 01

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• 35:53Speaker 01

  I want to go back to the X Prize because there are these machines now that create intermittent hypoxia.

• 36:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 36:05Speaker 01

  So oxygen excess followed by oxygen deprivation. And there seems to be some real benefits. I, I've, I've seen clinical outcomes where it's increasing VO2 max. And a lot of these are increasing VO2 max at rest, which I find really fascinating because VO2 max training is usually, you know, zone two, four by fours, all of the traditional mechanisms of increasing, increasing VO2 max. So this hormetic stress applied, you know, intermittently, oxygen excess, oxygen deprivation, seems to be having a very positive effect on the mitochondria.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  Maybe even increasing mitochondrial density or mitochondrial proliferation, which to me would be the hallmark of age reversal. Is that's what's happening?

• 36:54Speaker 00

  So if there was a really great way, I, I'm working with a company right now, trying to figure out a good way to test mitochondrial stress and mitochondrial density right now, right? But this group is kind of coming through this at this point. But that stuff's in its infancy at this point, right? So, but yeah, mitogenesis is one of the known mechanisms of action of hyperbaric oxygen, right? So.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  New mitochondria.

• 37:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, I'm making it more better, right? This is rocket science. We just know the mechanism of action and we try and apply it, right? So, you know, when you're looking in the hypoxic state, oxygen deprivation, what we're doing is an altitude chamber. So you, you, you made the comment earlier about, you know, people in the long living zones being in the higher altitudes. Why better mitochondria? The mitochondria are working harder.

• 37:40Speaker 01

  I didn't even think about it. You know, this was, this is going back a long time. You know, I was, I was in the mortality science space for, for, for years. When I didn't really understand what mitochondria was, we just saw these observations. And, you know, increased life expectancy as you approximated the equator. Obviously relates to sunlight. Decreased life expectancy as you approximated the poles. And these are broad, you know, big data terms. But also that altitude correlated to extended lifespan.

• 38:19Speaker 01

  And at the time, I just surmised that the oxygen intake was similar or matched more with the oxygen expiration, you know, so that, so that the use of the gas was was more even. Because we knew that an oxygen singlet, you know, oxidative stress can be oxygen and a single oxygen molecule trapped in this phospholipid bilayer can can can cause oxidative stress. So if you were somehow to match the intake of oxygen with the outflow of oxygen, seems like that would correlate to longevity. That was a very basic view. So just, just.

• 38:59Speaker 00

  No, that's great. I mean, it's a decent, decent first.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was a first stab, but what you're saying is there is probably increased mitochondrial efficiency. Like, these people are using oxygen more effectively. There's less of it. The body adapts, probably by mitogenesis.

• 39:14Speaker 00

  Well, you know, when you increase your VO2, you are effective, not effectively, you are using oxygen better, right? You're you're using it better. And that's why, so this is the thing I liked about Arizona State University and Team Healthspan and with the rules for the X Prize. The rules for the X Prize were not telomere length, right? Because it's like, oh, yeah, you're living longer. No, that's not it, right? Telomeres, yes, they will help you to live longer. You need those. However, comma, grip strength, right? VO2 max, right? We're going to test all this data and that is required by the X Prize. So when they say health span, they really mean it, right? Because, you know, people go to the gym when they're older, they're better. Muscle is going to help you with everything. I don't care what your problem is, what you come across.

• 39:58Speaker 00

  You need more muscle. I don't know what it is, but you need muscle.

• 40:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 40:01Speaker 00

  You know, balance, walking, you know, you fall and you break a hip. Yeah, that's, that's the curse, right? You need that balance.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm seeing in my parents right now. I've been very, I've been very vocal. In fact, you just walked by my mom getting her Q E E G.

• 40:14Speaker 00

  She's adorable.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  Transcranial red light. She's great.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  You know, I'm throwing the book at it. You know, I've got, you know, one of my parents is mind is great and body is failing. And the other one, body is great and mind is failing. And I think people find themselves in one of those two places. But, you know, I, I want to fight it incessantly because of what I do for a living. And I, and I feel like I still have some control over this.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  And I'm a big believer in the transcranial red light and getting these Q E E Gs to see where the active areas of the brain are. I will tell you lithium, morate, keto diet, controlling her glycemic profile, getting her moving. Hyperbarics have had a profound impact on on this journey. Mood, stability, even the the frailty aspect has improved in the last few months. Less being less frail, more robust, more conversational, easier to engage, you know,

• 41:16Speaker 01

  better short term recall. This all in a total, just an N of one with my, my mom. But hyperbarics has been a part of that.

• 41:24Speaker 00

  Huge, right? So my mother's 49, right? Been 49 for a minute or two, right? But my mother goes to the gym every morning. My mother drinks a gallon of water a day. My mother, you know, works out hard, you know, works hard, gets out there, does brain games,

• 41:41Speaker 00

  does hyperbarics, right? She's like, oh, my son's a hyperbaric guy, so I got to do hyperbarics, right?

• 41:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:46Speaker 00

  Wherever she goes, she just goes and does hyperbarics because she's a true believer. You know, even when she had some surgeries, she had some D surgery. And they were like, oh, wow, you're healing really well. Yeah, well, let's guess I'm in hyperbarics. The guy's like, what?

• 41:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So a pain threshold for that down too. And I've used it, clients of mine for post surgical recovery, you know, for athletic performance. And in short bursts, it doesn't seem like you create any kind of dependency. Not 100 days underwater, but you know, once a day, five days a week, two days off. But again, back to the X Prize. When you're now doing intermittent hypoxia in combination with pressure, you're not varying the pressure, you're only varying the oxygen, right?

• 42:30Speaker 00

  No, I'm actually pulling you to, I can go up to 29,000 feet in my hyperbaric, my hyperbaric chamber, right? So when I evacuate the air, I'm giving you that true hormetic stress, just like if you were at altitude.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  Ah, so you're not just simulating oxygen saturation.

• 42:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:48Speaker 01

  You're simulating barometric pressure, like.

• 42:50Speaker 00

  I'm changing the barometric pressure for sure. Like, so what we did is we, so look, you fly in airplanes. And this is the problem. You got to get things through institutional review boards and they move at a speed faster than glacial, right? And I'm just like, trying to convince them that it's okay to go to 10,000 feet, to go to 8,000 feet. And they're like, you're going to kill all the old people because everybody has to be over 55 and less than 75, right? Okay, great. But everybody flies on an airplane and nobody checks your age before you fly on an airplane. And every cabin is pressurized to about 8,000 feet.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 43:22Speaker 00

  Everybody goes to Colorado to go skiing once a year. But, you know, 10,000 feet, 12,000 feet, nothing. And you hike, right? Like when I ski, I go out of bounds, I hike up to the top and then it's yeah, right? Because why? Because it's fun, right?

• 43:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:36Speaker 00

  But that's what we needed and that's what we wanted to do. When we simulated those altitudes and then pushed that hormetic stressor and then dropped you into hyperbarics.

• 43:48Speaker 01

  This is.

• 43:49Speaker 00

  Bam. And then we did ice bath and red light therapy and, you know. So we did a whole novel combination where we have the key. We have literally the click, right? Here it is. It's right here. This is exactly what you should do. Science proven, you know.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  Protocol.

• 44:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:06Speaker 01

  And so it's, if I recall, it was 10 minutes of hypoxia, followed by an hour of hyperoxia.

• 44:17Speaker 00

  Yes, sir.

• 44:18Speaker 01

  So oxygen deprivation initially.

• 44:20Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  So that deprivation, so then you definitely were not at two atmospheres when you deprived them of oxygen. You were way.

• 44:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, you were at eight, eight to 10,000 feet, I think, was the protocol.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  Okay, so eight to 10,000 feet. Then you bring them back down to what atmosphere?

• 44:36Speaker 00

  To two atmospheres.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  To two atmosphere, double atmospheric pressure. And then increase the oxygen saturation.

• 44:41Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 44:41Speaker 01

  Wow, okay.

• 44:42Speaker 00

  Right?

• 44:43Speaker 01

  So 10 minutes deprived, 90 minutes.

• 44:46Speaker 00

  If I had my druthers, it would be more like a half hour. Because I'm working with this girl who's on the.

• 44:52Speaker 01

  What are you using, like a pulse ox or something to make sure they're?

• 44:54Speaker 00

  Exactly. This is, we pulse ox monitor them the entire time. We're watching them, you know, you have attendants that have to be there. They have to be trained. They have to know what they're doing, right? So when you're doing research.

• 45:05Speaker 01

  Controlled environment.

• 45:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's a very controlled environment, right? So we're checking people. If I had my druthers, I would take you to probably 12,000 feet. And I would have you work out inside the hyperbaric chamber. We don't work out inside a hyperbaric chamber because bad things can happen with heat and movement and bearings and stuff like that and batteries and blah, blah, blah, blah, right? So everything's got to be right in the hyperbaric chamber. In the hyperbaric chamber, all bets are off, right? Because there's no risk of fire because there's less oxygen. Even less of a risk of fire on the surface. Not that you can smoke, but you know, it's not a thing. It wouldn't even, your cigarette wouldn't even light at, you know, 16,000 feet, you know, so.

• 45:46Speaker 01

  But yeah, I've never seen somebody smoking on Everest.

• 45:48Speaker 00

  Right, yeah, exactly. And then if you're working out, what are you doing? Look, what we're trying to do at altitude is a lot of things. That hormetic stress response, the increasing the number hemoglobin response. I mean, that's, that is your mammalian reflex, right? When I pull oxygen from you, you make more hemoglobin, right? That makes perfect sense. Why do you think the Dallas Cowboys go to Colorado to train? Right? Because they live at five, six, seven, 10,000 feet. And then they come down and they play because they're now full of red blood cells. Now they're ready to blah, blah, blah.

• 46:21Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 46:22Speaker 00

  Right? That increases your VO2. It's legal blood doping. Thank you.

• 46:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's legal blood doping. And so the, what you're seeing then, and to, and I won't give any stats because maybe I shouldn't put those out there before the study is published. But this extension of health span and lifespan that you're seeing, and we won't give it a number, this, this extension of health span and lifespan that you're seeing. Do you believe that that is coming from the increased efficiency in the mitochondria, in mitogenesis, the production of new mitochondria? Are you making the existing ones more efficient? Are they producing more ATP? Like, what mechanistically do you surmise is happening by depriving the body of oxygen?

• 47:09Speaker 01

  Because I'm really fascinated by this because I have a hyperbaric chamber. I have an HBO tech out in Colorado.

• 47:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  My house is at 10,500 feet.

• 47:16Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 47:16Speaker 01

  So, so I have naturally hypoxia.

• 47:19Speaker 00

  I love it.

• 47:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I, so I have a gym upstairs and I, working out there is very humbling. Because I do these high rock style workouts here with my son. And then I try to repeat the workout when I'm up there and I'm like, good lord.

• 47:31Speaker 00

  You're like, I can't breathe.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  I can't breathe. So I do a modified style of workout there. And then I go down and get in the hyperbaric. And I do have a sealed mask, a recirculating mask. Let me tell you something, when I get out of that thing, I, I feel like I can solve some complex math equations.

• 47:50Speaker 00

  My, my PhD student and I just finished a paper on is hyperbaric oxygen a performance enhancing drug?

• 47:57Speaker 01

  Dude, I am telling you, another N of one, it is absolutely performance enhancing. When I get out of there, I am calm, focused, centered, clear, awake. I, I actually want to challenge my, like, I actually feel like going back upstairs and working out again. You know, but I also feel like I can solve complex problems. And I'm in that parasympathetic state of almost zen, like, yeah.

• 48:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, I love that.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  I, I love that too. And it's hard to describe. I get the same thing when I talk about this a lot too, just putting on a rucksack, one of those little ion, I'm, I'm wearing one now, this weighted vest. I have it, one that I use for working out and I have this little three and a half mile loop through the woods, 10,500 feet. Come back, I dropped that thing on the deck and I'm like, I feel like I found the Messiah. Like, I feel amazing. Got millions of dollars of equipment in this, in this unit. Nothing makes me feel better than that.

• 48:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  So what is happening by, in, in your opinion, by flicking this switch between hypoxia and hyperoxia under pressure?

• 49:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  That's the key.

• 49:12Speaker 00

  What we think, and this is pure supposition. We don't know anything. We think we're increasing mitochondrial efficiency. Right? I, I think we are. I don't even want to say we, because even the other researchers, you know, you see me, but there are 12 other researchers on this team and there are great scientific minds on this team. Right? So not just me. I mean, not that I'm a scientific mind at all, but you know what I'm saying?

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:33Speaker 00

  This team is well put together and perfect for what we needed. But all these hormetic stressors put together, all that stress that you want to put on your body when you go to the gym, when you go to the ice bath, when you go to the red light, all the, all those stressors, man, all that stuff is actually good for you. So when you do that, you can make the mitochondria more efficient. And if you make the mitochondria more efficient, I liken it to a road, right? We want to pave the road. So we pave this much. Okay. And then I want a little bit more. Now I want a little bit more. I'm widening the road. I'm widening my ability to live because right now you're a human, you can live pretty much 100% oxygen down to 16% oxygen. I want that more. I want to be able to live in 14% oxygen. Why? I want to be adaptive. I want to be able

• 50:15Speaker 00

  to go all the way up to 3.0, 300% oxygen effectively. Right? I want to broaden that path. I want more muscle. I want to rip more fibers. I want to do this, you know? So it's, it's a, it's a wild thought, but you know, we're, we're still trying to find the science and crack the code on this. There's a lot there.

• 50:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. But I think that, you know, given the number of indications that it's approved for now.

• 50:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  The relative safety of it and using gas pressure, hormetic stress, these are all things that we have a lot of data on in terms of, you know, strengthening the body and improving the performance and function. And I think most people are after that cognitive benefit as much as they are the physical benefit. Right? Athletic performance, great.

• 51:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:04Speaker 01

  But you know, we all want to have our faculties, you know, going late into life.

• 51:10Speaker 00

  Two things. So you, you said safety and I just want to nickel on safety real quick. So we did a 102 year exhaustive study of every single accident with any kind of oxygen involved. And we even included, we even included Apollo one. That's how complete this was because it was an oxygen environment. It was a hyperbaric environment, but oxygen. Less than 150 people have lost their lives in 100 years. Now that's a horrible number. Trust me. But 150 years or 100 years and 150 people, that is a very low number. That's way lower than aspirin. That's way lower than Tylenol. That's way lower than any of these other drugs. Right?

• 51:51Speaker 00

  So it is not dangerous if done correctly. Right? Like when you start to combine hydrogen and putting your red light there and doing all the stupid things that we know, in the hyperbaric chamber, bad, bad juju, right? Take a class, learn, get your learn on and understand it, which like I said, you should be lauded because you, you're doing.

• 52:09Speaker 01

  No, I really, I, I really am.

• 52:11Speaker 00

  Practice what you preach.

• 52:12Speaker 01

  And I, and I respect that I have such a large platform and, and I, and I have to be authentic and intentional about the information I've been putting out there. And to the extent that it's been wrong, I want to correct it so that people don't, you know, follow me and start doing the wrong thing because I'm glorifying how efficient I am in my hyperbaric.

• 52:31Speaker 00

  Right.

• 52:32Speaker 01

  Which, you know, I've done. And so that's why I'm so excited about this podcast is like, set the record straight, put some guardrails in so people can safely, so safely use these hyperbarics at scale. Uh, you know, we're, we're preparing to open 600 of these ultimate longevity centers. And we have hyperbarics in all of these ultimate longevity centers. I don't want hundreds of thousands of people to come in and be a human experiment in our locations. I want them to get a physiologic benefit at a very, you know, high, high level efficacy and safety and, and not take the risk.

• 53:06Speaker 00

  If only you knew a guy to train all those people.

• 53:10Speaker 00

  You got a, you got a friend.

• 53:11Speaker 01

  Oh, he's asking for a job right on my podcast. This is great.

• 53:15Speaker 00

  And the other thing is you talked about cognitive enhancement and especially cognitive enhancement in a declining age population.

• 53:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 53:21Speaker 00

  If only there was a paper that was just written on that by Shai Afrati. That's exactly what it does. It's cognitive enhancement in a declining age population.

• 53:30Speaker 01

  When you say declining age population, what do you mean?

• 53:32Speaker 00

  Yeah. We can't say elderly anymore, right? This is the wrong word, right? So, so yeah, as you're, as you're getting older, uh, you know, it's, we, we did this, he did the study, right? So you, we're increasing cognitive function. We're increased, you know, the multitasking and the single tasking that's in that paper. We're talking, I want to say it was 17 and 35, don't quote me on the numbers, but a 17 or a 35% increase in double tasking, multitasking and single task work. It's incredible.

• 54:02Speaker 01

  And this was in older ages?

• 54:03Speaker 00

  Yeah. In the older ages, in the 55 plus community, right?

• 54:06Speaker 01

  So I hate that you call 55 plus older ages, first of all, because I'm 55, right?

• 54:11Speaker 00

  I'm 60 next year, man. Are you kidding me?

• 54:13Speaker 01

  Okay. Well, just talk about yourself.

• 54:17Speaker 01

  I hate to like, you know, when I started getting the AARP announcement, I'm like, screw you guys. Like, you know, I could get like a discount on my AAA. I'm like, I don't want the discount.

• 54:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, I hate it.

• 54:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:29Speaker 00

  But that's all right. Cause I wear it, man. I'm like, yeah, I'm 60. Come on, let's go. You want to get on a mat? Let's roll.

• 54:34Speaker 01

  And so, so how are you using hyperbarics in your daily regimen?

• 54:39Speaker 00

  Sporadically, right? Because sporadically and, and you know, a bit stochastically, right? So I'm doing this, I'm doing this, higher pressure, lower pressure, higher pressure, lower pressure. Cause I personally believe that works. Like you, I have a Ferrari in my garage. Well, it's not a Ferrari. It happens to be a hyperbaric chamber.

• 54:56Speaker 01

  Same. I'm way more proud of my hyperbaric than a Ferrari.

• 54:59Speaker 00

  Exactly. Right? So I do this on a regular because I believe, right? And I'm taking blood, urine, saliva. I'm doing all the, you know, the mitochondrial function tests, working all this stuff, trying to figure all this out. There's a lot that goes into this. But look, why don't we have great research funded in hyperbarics? Who's the claimant for it? Who's going to make money on it?

• 55:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's the problem. It's the same thing with peptides and a lot of these other things. It does not make them invalid.

• 55:26Speaker 00

  It's naturally occurring. The trees make it. Um, yeah. It's not like, not like drug companies can make a million dollars on it. So there's no, you know, double, you know, there's no phase two clinical trial in, in hyperbaric oxygen therapy. My N at, at the University of South Florida was 420. And that's the largest one that's ever been done. The largest clinical trial in hyperbaric medicine history, 420.

• 55:49Speaker 01

  The TBI at USF.

• 55:51Speaker 00

  The TBI at USF, right? So that's it. 420. And you think about a phase two D trial. That's like 40 or 50,000.

• 56:00Speaker 01

  And when we talk about traumatic brain injury, is this at the time of a concussive injury or is this traumatic brain injury from, you know, past traumatic brain injury and you're trying to recover function?

• 56:12Speaker 00

  Yeah. So I just wrote the book, Shattered to Strong, which is in editing right now, but you'll see that come out really soon. I'll give you a copy. But a concussion could be a traumatic brain injury, but all that involves, you know, could be mild, it could be moderate, it could be severe. Right?

• 56:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 56:27Speaker 00

  And it depends on how many, what the frequency, chronic traumatic encephalopathy, all that ties in somewhere with repeated hits or just a single hit. Right? You could get laid out with a single hit or have repeated really bad hits and you can get away with it. Right? So there's a lot in there that we don't know. Right? Even when we're doing the endpoint of the study and we went to the FDA, the FDA was like, oh, we don't like the way you solved the traumatic, a cured traumatic brain injury. I'm like, well, what do you call it? And they're like, no, no, no, we don't have a cured traumatic brain injury, but we're just gonna, we're just gonna tell you that we don't like yours.

• 57:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 57:03Speaker 00

  We don't like your endpoint, but, uh, we don't have an endpoint. So make a new endpoint. And I'm like, oh my God, it's so stupid. But you know, look, the, since papyrus, since the days of papyrus, 2000 years before Christ, we had traumatic brain injury on the books. So we have had it on the books for 3000, 4000 years.

• 57:24Speaker 01

  Of course. I mean, men have been banging their husbands and stuff.

• 57:25Speaker 00

  It's been written down. We don't have a cure. We don't have an endpoint. It's the only thing that I keep saying, we don't open it up. Look, if you look at the knee, uh, I've done knee surgeries because I've ripped up my knee, but you've had this little pleca inside the knee, a little bursa sac and a little tip on the end. You can't even see it on the images. Right? And that's a one millimeter thing that's causing hate and discontent in your knee. And you know, the orthopedic surgeon's like, wait till I get in there and I'll see. I'm like, what do you mean, see? Well, we don't open the brain. We don't go look in the brain. We just treat it on the outside and go, ah, you'll be fine. What you need is a tincture of time. You want to piss me off? That's how, when I got my traumatic brain injury, that's what they told me. You just need a tincture of time. And I was like,

• 58:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't want a tincture of time.

• 58:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:12Speaker 01

  How did you get a TBI? Was it?

• 58:14Speaker 00

  So I was driving my 1947 Chevy. Why? Because I dove 1,947 feet. So I bought a 1947 Chevy.

• 58:21Speaker 01

  Oh, that makes sense. Okay. There's actually a correlation there. I love it.

• 58:26Speaker 00

  So I got T-boned at nine o'clock in the morning on September 7th of 21. T-boned in an intersection. I'd just come back from the gym. Knocked out.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  Head hit the window?

• 58:37Speaker 00

  My head hit the window. You know, no airbags in that car, right? Bam bam. Thank God it's made of steel because the other car was totaled. My car was totaled. I'm locked inside shaved door handles. They can't get me out. I'm in the driver's seat.

• 58:50Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 58:51Speaker 00

  Somebody ripped the door off the hinges. Thank God. Throw me in the back of the ambulance. I wake up on the way to the hospital. They're like, hey, you okay? I'm like, who am I? Who are you? Where am I? What's going on? Look, I'm in a pair of scrubs, right? I'm going to teach. I'm like, okay, all right. I get to the hospital and the guy's like, oh yeah, you're, um, you had a really bad hit. Eight millimeter hemorrhagic stroke, prefrontal cortex, left side, right?

• 59:18Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 59:19Speaker 00

  Bam.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  Hemorrhagic stroke bleeding.

• 59:21Speaker 00

  Yeah. So they had me in the ICU for two days, uh, looking, you know, fall risk, the whole bit. Detailed in the book. It's a great story. And then, uh, five more days in the hospital. So seven days in the hospital total. And then they're like, tincture of time. That's all you need. And I'm like, that's what you got? I'm like, I'm a TBI researcher. How about hyperbaric oxygen? They're like, whoa, you really don't want to do that. That's, that's a lot of blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, you can't even spell hyperbaric oxygen. You're telling me not to do it?

• 59:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 59:49Speaker 00

  Come on. At least know what you're talking about. So.

• 59:52Speaker 01

  So you start, you did your N of one again.

• 59:55Speaker 00

  So I did my N of one. So here's the bad part, right? Like, so that was September 7th. I get out of the hospital, September 14th. By the end of October, I'm ready to take my own life. I am literally suicidal because I'm just like, I can't, I can't, I couldn't think anymore. I couldn't, I couldn't reason. I couldn't function. I couldn't read. Right? So it's like, oh my God.

• 1:00:15Speaker 01

  You couldn't, you couldn't, you couldn't interpret the words? Like you could see them, but you just couldn't reason what they meant?

• 1:00:20Speaker 00

  I had strabismus surgery when I was young, right? So part of that strabismus surgery, they pulled the eye in, right? So when they pulled the eye in, I'd have a lazy eye, right? But they pulled it in and now it looks good or it's used to. Well, when, when you have this surgery, it's common to see one and a half images. But then that goes away. Your compensation, your compensatory reaction in your body compensates for that double vision and you phase it together and you see one. Well, when I got hit in the head, I lost all that compensatory behavior. And I went right back to ground zero to the sixth grade, right after the accident. And I'm looking at people and I'm like, there's your nose and there's your nose. So when I'm reading, I'm reading the first line here and the second line with this eye.

• 1:01:03Speaker 00

  And the second line here and the third eye with this. And I'm like, I can't understand anything. And I couldn't even understand enough to figure out what was going on. So, and then I wasn't sleeping, common with traumatic brain injury sufferers, right? It's like, oh, it was horrible, right? So now I got despondent, but I needed to get there to get back, to get better. And that is the impetus of every single thing that I've done since then, right? The hyperbaric oxygen, the, the ice baths, the saunas, the neurofeedback therapy, the cognitive behavioral therapy, structural interject there. All that stuff came from my traumatic brain injury because I needed to fix myself. The lifelong aging, anti-aging health span cure thing.

• 1:01:46Speaker 00

  It all came exactly from my TBI. Thank God I had that. It was the best thing that ever happened to me.

• 1:01:51Speaker 01

  So I've been working out with my son lately, trying to keep up with him and his high rocks competitive athletes. And I've been starting to use this perfect amino pre-workout. I really like it. It's got BH4. It improves nitric oxide output, but it actually seems to stay after the workout and not crash. There's no stimulants. So no caffeine, no Ma Wong, nothing that gives you that kind of amped feeling. You just feel like you're maybe better able to move during the workout, like you have better blood flow. So if you're in the market for a pre-workout, check out the perfect amino pre-workout. It's my favorite now. Now let's get back to the ultimate human podcast. So let's talk about some non-brain benefits. A lot of people are touting healthier skin, more youthful appearance to the skin.

• 1:02:32Speaker 01

  You know, the, the, the oxygen being provided to these dermal, subdermal layers of the skin, actually improving, uh, the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles. Where do you fall in that?

• 1:02:44Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, look, it's, it's collagen synthesis, right? Fibroblast proliferation collagen synthesis. We need that. It's not just the thing that the girls inject in their face. It's real stuff. Every cell in your body, you, most every cell in your body uses collagen, right? So if, if it's the skeleton of everything, so you need it. So it, hyperbaric oxygen makes it. I mean, you know, science wins. It's.

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:03:05Speaker 00

  Now, how it gets applied? Yes, I have seen it. Yes, I've seen it reverse DNA damage. Yes, I've seen it.

• 1:03:11Speaker 01

  You have.

• 1:03:12Speaker 00

  But these are, these are ends of one, two, five, 10, right? These are all small numbers, right? So pre-clinical sort of data, but you know, we've also seen it reverse, uh, diabetes. You know, type two diabetes. I've seen it reverse.

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  So improving insulin sensitivity.

• 1:03:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:03:28Speaker 00

  And this is insane to think. And you know, I don't want to get killed or anything.

• 1:03:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:03:32Speaker 00

  But like, if we could do this, we could stop people from taking drugs. We could get people off of, you know, all these things, but it takes work. Why, why don't we have people going in it? Because you're a believer, you go in it, but how much does it take you? Eighty minutes a day?

• 1:03:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, 60 to 90 minutes.

• 1:03:48Speaker 00

  And you know, by the time you get there and you change and you unbox it and you drive there, like, nobody can have it in their garage like you and I do. But you know, it's two hours out of your day. Who's got two hours in their day to go to hyperbaric chamber?

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:04:00Speaker 00

  For 40 times. Yeah. That's two months of your life you're never getting back, right? So not a lot of people have it. So patient compliance winds up being a real problem.

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  So, but in the, in ambient air compressed air, do you think it's safe for? Cause I'm thinking of like, if people could bio stack, could they use a phone or a laptop under compressed air without?

• 1:04:23Speaker 00

  No. And the reason why is because those batteries are designed for, do you remember we were having problems on the planes with the batteries that would just blow, right? And they now even have a bag that they've invented to seal inside of it. And in the unlikely event, it has a problem on an airplane. The problem with that is you're sealed inside a hyperbaric chamber. So if you have a device in there and something goes wrong with it, you can't get out. And people like, well, when you were underwater, Joe, you had a computer. I was like, yes. And if the computer caught on fire, I would take it. And I'd throw it in the water. I had a hole in the bottom of my thing and I'd throw it in the water. Right? Not like in the ocean. I'd throw it in the ocean to get rid of it, right?

• 1:05:06Speaker 00

  And it wouldn't be in the habitat anymore. How are you getting out? That's the problem. And then what happens when you increase temperature? You increase pressure. You increase pressure. Now you're pressurizing your unit more. You can't even unzip it or open the door. I mean, you know, you can't get away from, you know, 15 pounds per square inch. You can't open that door. There's no way, right?

• 1:05:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:05:28Speaker 00

  But you know, you can't get it when it's increasing the pressure because you're increasing the temperature. So yeah, it's, it's a no-go, right? If you have an issue, just keep the vol, like, look, the, the new hyperbaric chambers that are coming out, your HPO tech, it's ASME PVHO approved. That's why I like them. They're going for FDA clearance right now. They're still in the process, whatever. But the ASME PVHO, I'm an engineer, right? It says engineers do this, this way, right? We keep the, you know, the voltages down. We all, everything that goes in there is low. So you can have a type of a TV in there. You can have a monitor in there. You're allowed. It's just, it has to be done the right way. So if you're, so what's the one thing we haven't had on us right now?

• 1:06:12Speaker 00

  Our phones. My thumbs feel great. I don't have my damn phone on me.

• 1:06:16Speaker 01

  My thumbs feel great.

• 1:06:17Speaker 00

  Well, like, how much do you take a break? So you take a break from your phone, I hope, right? In the hyperbaric chamber, right? You take a break from your phone. Guys, you need a break from your damn phone. Your phone is causing most of these problems. This electromagnetic interference. I mean, there's a whole conspiracy theory behind all that, right?

• 1:06:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:06:34Speaker 00

  But like, boy, get away from that damn thing. Relax. Take it down a notch. Breathe. When you say you come out and you're like, I feel great. You feel great because you haven't had your phone. That's part of it. And we see the healing is much better when people have no external stimulation. Don't go in the chamber to watch movies. Don't go in the chamber to, go in the chamber to have your alone time and keep that and cradle it and make it yours and be like, nobody's touching my hyperbaric oxygen time because it, it makes me feel better. And if it makes you feel better, keep doing it. So ditch the phone is my whole thing.

• 1:07:13Speaker 01

  Where do you see the future of hyperbarics going? Do you see it being common as a multivitamin in 10 years? Do you, you think that the research is advancing, um, to a place where it's going to be a must-have?

• 1:07:30Speaker 01

  You know, in, in someone's bio stack, obviously.

• 1:07:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  Price dependent, space dependent, time dependent. I get, I get all that. But for that person that is on that longevity biohacking, anti-aging journey, it's, you see it as being one of those must haves.

• 1:07:48Speaker 00

  A hundred percent. I do. I do. I see it. It's ubiquitous now. It has to be done the right way.

• 1:07:54Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:07:55Speaker 00

  The reason why we have such a great safety record in 102 years, less than 150 people gone. All right. We have a great safety record because we follow build to this standard ASME PVHO stuff, right? And so we got to kind of get away from those, you know, hodgepodge ones, the ones that aren't being made right. And we'll continue to have a great safety record.

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  China. They, and everybody just, you know, wants to buy it based on price. And I, I feel like if you're paying $25,000 for a hard show.

• 1:08:24Speaker 00

  I'm like, really? You're, the, the guys that I'm talking to, I'm like, you are multi-multi-millionaire. And we're talking about the difference between $120,000 and $30,000. What is your life worth? To me, it's a no-brainer. Now, I get it. I'm not trying to be a big man on campus like, but I get it. Price is an independent variable is a thing, but your life is not worth taking that risk. So have it engineered the right way and do it the right way. But if you do that, I see it everywhere in every home for anti-aging, for whatever we're calling health span now. Longevity. I think that it's truly, it's the one true force multiplier that everybody, like, guys like Brian Johnson are saying, oh, it's the one true thing. And I mean, I talked with him.

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, myself too. I mean.

• 1:09:10Speaker 00

  Yeah. So like, guys are saying it's, it's the right thing. I even got in an argument with Dave Asprey on stage over it.

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:09:18Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  About whether or not it was.

• 1:09:20Speaker 00

  No, you know, Dave did the whole intimidation thing, right? Like he stands up on stage and I'm like, bro, this thing is going to go the way you think it's going to go.

• 1:09:28Speaker 00

  But you know, in all lightheartedness, we had a good time afterwards. But you know, it's the kind of thing that I believe is gonna show up everywhere because it moves the needle. Everything else is like, oh, put this magic cream on and it does, oh, come on, really? I see way too much of that garbage. So unfortunately, look, science wins over BS and the mechanisms of action work. And if you need collagen, this synthesizes collagen. That's all there is to it. I mean, let's not, you know.

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  Overcomplicate it.

• 1:10:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, it works for problematic foot wounds. Does that mean it's gonna work for a bad arm wound? Probably. Is there data on it? No. Is there science behind it? Yes, right? Like, so like, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Let's not confuse like your industry was, you know, your lifespan or your, how long you're gonna, when people are gonna die, right? So like, let's not confuse your health insurance with somebody that actually cares about your health and is gonna make you live longer, right? So like, this is the kind of thing that, look, it's gonna make you live longer, it's gonna increase your telomere length, it does that. It's gonna increase your cognitive function, it does that. We know it, the papers are there, right?

• 1:10:42Speaker 00

  So stop with the whole, oh, yeah, I'm just gonna let insurance pay for me, you know?

• 1:10:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. I'm gonna go into a little bit of a touchy area. I saw a video by Dr. David Minkoff in Tampa and he's somebody I hold in very, very high regard, by the way, at LifeWorks. I have personally seen him work miracles in oncology patients. And, and his whole approach to cancer is, don't just go after the villain, the cancer, also treat the host. You know, I use this analogy a lot, when a fish gets sick, first thing we do is clean the tank. His whole approach is keto diet, cleaning the tank, getting rid of heavy metals, mold, mycotoxins, parasites, viruses, all these things that are causing these low-grade inflammatory

• 1:11:31Speaker 01

  infections and also treating, treating the cancer. And he uses these different stalking horse methods of, you know, driving blood sugar down with a keto diet, further down with insulin, introducing chemo in conjunction with glucose to increase the uptake. But he swears by hyperbarics in oncology patients. And I don't know if that's something where you wanna tread, but.

• 1:11:58Speaker 00

  No, absolutely. Look, I'm, I am intrepid.

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  Cancer, cancer is a metabolic shift, right? All cancer was at one time a healthy cell. It's not something that happens to us, something happens within us. Something caused that cell's metabolism to shift. Maybe it was radiation, maybe it was toxicity, you know, maybe it was, you know, genetics, number of things. So it's not this rogue DNA. It is, it is metabolic shift in the, in the cell from healthy metabolism to.

• 1:12:27Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:12:28Speaker 01

  Sick metabolism. And he, you know, has been out saying, listen, hyperbarics are part of our oncology regimen. We treat our cancer patients with, with hyperbarics. Where do you fall on that? And what evidence have you seen, if any?

• 1:12:48Speaker 00

  Right, so John Feldmeyer wrote a whole bunch of papers on this oncology thing, right? So we know that chemotherapeutic agents are made more toxic in a hyperbaric environment, which kind of stands to reason, you increase VEGF, vasodilator growth factor. So you're, you're actually feeding tumors, if you will, more, right?

• 1:13:07Speaker 01

  With VEGF, yeah.

• 1:13:08Speaker 00

  With VEGF, right? So with VEGF, but you're getting VEGF from hyperbaric oxygen therapy. It's one of the, you know, it's one of the mechanisms of action. So, okay, if, if you're feeding that and you're doing chemo, you probably don't wanna do drugs like cisplatinum or dicelforum because those are two absolutely known that they are made much worse in hyperbaric oxygen. So here was my thought and Feldmeyer and company were like, you're an idiot, right? And I'm like, okay, I'm just, I'm just a young researcher, right? So I said, instead of giving this much chemo and then letting them go off and do their thing, give them this much chemo, less, and then do hyperbaric oxygen therapy if chemotherapeutic agents are made more toxic. So I said, ah, that seems more better.

• 1:13:53Speaker 00

  And he's like, look, jokingly, he said, you're gonna get yourself killed, man. Some big pharma guy's gonna wreck you. I'm like, no, come on, man, seriously. He's like, no, the problem is, we don't know how much. It's made more toxic, but, so stay away from those. But I'll tell you this right now, what we're doing is, I just finished a pre-paper proposal to a pediatric cancer foundation to talk about neuroblastoma and glioblastoma and taking beta hydroxobutyrate to induce ketosis and remain in a ketotic state and then do hyperbaric oxygen on top of that without chemotherapy to shrink tumors. So there's some pre-work done by, by Prof and D'Agostino on this, which is great stuff

• 1:14:37Speaker 00

  and it looks good, especially with the beta hydroxobutyrate in combination. Look.

• 1:14:41Speaker 01

  Ketone body, yeah.

• 1:14:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, ketone bodies, right? So, so oxygen is, is not helpful to cancer, right? It's hurtful to cancer, right? And then sugar, cancer loves sugar. So if we take away the sugar and we give it the oxygen, which it doesn't like, it's gonna start shriveling up, right? So we're gonna see this proposal, but that's in rats or in mice, actually, technically. So we're gonna do this proposal and from what we're, the, the pre-data, the pre-clinical data says that we're gonna shrink tumors. So can you help? But remember, this is like a traumatic brain injury. Cancer is kind of like, do you have testicular cancer? Do you have glioblastoma? Do you have, you know, mylo whatever? You know, you could have any kind of cancer. So how do you treat cancer? Eighty-four different ways.

• 1:15:26Speaker 00

  I mean, you know, but you can't go wrong by oxygenating and reducing the sugar. I mean, sugar's the devil, in my opinion. I'm just saying, right? So get rid of the sugar in your life and up the oxygen. Like I keep saying, in the book says, hyperbaric oxygen doesn't cure anything, but it helps your body help itself.

• 1:15:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:48Speaker 00

  And that's what we want, right? We want an organism that will fix itself better, right?

• 1:15:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, I talk about this theory of immunofatigue all the time where it's slow progressive overwhelming of the immune system. And, you know, as we become less capable of defending ourselves and also less capable of policing ourselves, you know, the, the immune system is watching the senescent cells and cellular autophagy and, you know, making sure a CTC, a circulating tumor cell doesn't slip by, it's like, whoop, that's, that's, doesn't have the right metabolism, let's kill that. You know, natural killer cells can kill other natural killer cells that are not performing, right? It's like, it's like having the SEAL Team six unit.

• 1:16:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:16:29Speaker 01

  Inside your house all the time, just making sure everything's running efficiently. And I think the immune system doesn't get enough credit for that because most people think of it as only protecting us, not also policing us.

• 1:16:39Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:16:39Speaker 01

  And, you know, nothing can go wrong, in my opinion, by having a healthier, more efficient immune system.

• 1:16:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, 100%.

• 1:16:51Speaker 01

  This is why age is itself a disease.

• 1:16:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:16:55Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:16:56Speaker 00

  It truly is. I know, I think they just renamed it as a disease, to be honest with you. Yeah, I think they just renamed age as a disease. You're young, come on.

• 1:17:05Speaker 01

  I thought I just came up with that on the podcast, so.

• 1:17:07Speaker 00

  But, but look, we, we have an overactive immune system, we really do. I mean, right now, what's, what's the worst stress that you have? Like, somebody didn't like my Facebook post or somebody, somebody said mean things to me in the car? I mean, our ancestors usually get chased by saber-toothed tigers, for Christ's sake. Come on, let's, let's be real here. We don't have a lot of stresses in our life, right? So when we see something, we go like immediately overboard, right? All these killer cells, everything pops to attention, everybody starts like doing the thing that they're doing, right? And it's like, all right, all right, calm down. So you see systemic inflammatory response as a consequence of people with an overreactive immune system. So we just kind of wanna quell that down a little bit.

• 1:17:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. Finally, I wanna round out this exercise again, and then I've got a bunch of VIP questions for you. VIP community, they knew you were coming on and they've got a bunch of questions for you.

• 1:18:04Speaker 01

  The, so intermittent hypoxia.

• 1:18:08Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:18:09Speaker 01

  And pressure is the sort of staple of this, but you are also using other therapies.

• 1:18:15Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:18:15Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:18:15Speaker 00

  Red light.

• 1:18:16Speaker 01

  Red light.

• 1:18:17Speaker 00

  Sauna.

• 1:18:19Speaker 01

  And, and red light, do you recall the nanometer wavelengths you're using?

• 1:18:22Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:18:22Speaker 01

  Okay, so you're using the red light therapy, sauna.

• 1:18:25Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  Ice bath. Are you going sauna, sauna to ice bath?

• 1:18:32Speaker 00

  No, we're not doing the back and forths, but we just did the one, right? So the one exposure, look, we're looking for that 13% increase in brown adipose tissue, the, you know, the cold shock proteins, we're looking for all that stuff, so.

• 1:18:43Speaker 01

  Cold shock proteins, peripheral vasoconstriction.

• 1:18:45Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:18:45Speaker 01

  Releasing norepinephrine dopamine.

• 1:18:47Speaker 00

  You get it.

• 1:18:48Speaker 01

  Activation of brown fat, yeah.

• 1:18:49Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:18:49Speaker 01

  All those hormetic stresses which are free when you expose yourself to cold water. I talk about it all the time. I'm like, you don't even need to spend whatever, seven to 10 grand on a cold plunge, you can take a cool shower.

• 1:19:01Speaker 00

  Three to five minutes, you're done, right? Like, let's, let's not overkill it, right? So sauna, 20 minutes, you know, something like that.

• 1:19:07Speaker 01

  How are you stacking these modalities? Are they on alternate days? So hyperbaric is consistent five days on, right?

• 1:19:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, hyperbarics is five days on, hypo barics is five days on. If, if I had the perfect world designed, right? Hype, hypo barics in the morning, hyper barics in the afternoon. And between that time and that four or five hour time, go to the frickin' gym, get your gym on, right? Then drink water, then do your red light, then, then do ice bath, then do, yeah, it's, it's hard because I don't like to do the ice bath and the sauna before and after one another. I like to give that space, that's my personal opinion.

• 1:19:44Speaker 01

  Ice bath in the morning, I do sauna night before bed. I actually find it has a marked increase in my sleep score. I just got back from a crazy trip in, in, in Europe. I spoke in, I spoke in, in each day, I spoke in Utah, then I went to New York, then I went to London, then I went to Cannes, then I went back to London, then I went to Maine, then I went to Alabama, then I went to Miami.

• 1:20:09Speaker 00

  You have a worse speaking schedule than me.

• 1:20:10Speaker 01

  It was brutal. But I got back and I did red light, I did about 25 minutes in the, in, in the sauna.

• 1:20:21Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:20:21Speaker 01

  Took a cool shower, didn't wanna cool myself off too much, took a cool shower, went to bed and pegged a 97% sleep score and 97% recovery. Felt amazing the next day.

• 1:20:33Speaker 00

  Holy, man.

• 1:20:34Speaker 01

  And I noticed that when I do sauna, close to bedtime, dry off, I allow myself to cool off in a shower, don't do the ice bath or maybe I'll do one. 15 to 30 seconds to bring my temperature down a little bit. I sleep so much better. It's like a, it's like a secret sleep hack.

• 1:20:54Speaker 00

  A hundred percent.

• 1:20:55Speaker 01

  Just doing that.

• 1:20:56Speaker 00

  That's exactly what I would be winding up doing if, if the world was perfect. Now granted, we know the world isn't perfect, right? And hyperbarracks in the afternoon is the best for, from your cycles and everything. But when can I do it? I can only do it in the morning. That's the time that I have the person watching me because somebody always watches me in the hyperbaric chamber. I'm not a, you know, not do as I say, not as I do. No, that's not me, right? So somebody's watching me and the only time they can watch me is in the morning. So I gotta do it in the morning, right? So you work out if it works out, sort of thing, right?

• 1:21:27Speaker 01

  So do you have one of those HBO tech single?

• 1:21:29Speaker 00

  I do.

• 1:21:30Speaker 01

  Units and then, yeah.

• 1:21:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:21:31Speaker 01

  You're sitting in there and you're doing your.

• 1:21:33Speaker 00

  Somebody watches me and all I do is breathe. Everybody's like, oh yeah, you can watch TV in those and they have a tablet that you can. I'm like, I don't care.

• 1:21:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:41Speaker 00

  I don't care. I don't, A, nothing with a battery goes inside my chamber at all, ever.

• 1:21:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, that, that thing has got to.

• 1:21:46Speaker 00

  It's wired, right? Less than, less than 28 volts per ASME PVHO code. But I don't do any of that TV. Why, as a matter of fact, I don't even, I stopped subscribing to cable because I don't even watch TV anyway. So what the hell did I subscribe to cable for? So I don't subscribe to any of that stuff. I don't watch TV. I don't try not to look at my phone if I can possibly avoid it. Although, you know, you have to text and so forth, but you know, I mean.

• 1:22:10Speaker 01

  And you're using the.

• 1:22:12Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:22:13Speaker 01

  Their closed mask.

• 1:22:14Speaker 00

  I'm, I'm using the bib system and I'm breathing in and out, right? Repeating as necessary. And I take those deep.

• 1:22:22Speaker 00

  Because look, everybody, when they do ice bath, they do the whole, ah, ah, ah, ah. Well, what's this? This is sympathetic nervous system. This is parasympathetic nervous system. So I want to relax. When I come out of that, I am so zen-like. And that's the one thing, like being underwater for a hundred days, the one thing that I had to do was I had to look in the mirror every morning at myself. And there wasn't a lot of people visiting. I had a couple of visitors, but not a lot. So I did a lot of inward looking during that time. And I was like, dude, you better chill out and you got some things you gotta fix. I'm looking in the mirror at you. I don't like you very much. Let me change that crap, right? So.

• 1:22:58Speaker 00

  Relax. That's the key, man. So.

• 1:23:01Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 1:23:02Speaker 00

  That's what you do in there. Make it your time. That's, you know, look, that's what we need. We need decompression time, right? Phew, let me out. Let me off that phone.

• 1:23:10Speaker 01

  Maybe people, maybe people start to think of their hyperbaric time as that meditation time, that zen time, that alone time, that quiet time.

• 1:23:17Speaker 00

  Please, please do your meditative breathing in there, whatever. I mean, you know, do your Wim Hof breaths. I don't care what you do, you know, just like chill out.

• 1:23:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the, and then maybe it's not such a detractor from your day, you know?

• 1:23:32Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:23:32Speaker 01

  My, my, my, my old approach was how can I be more efficient in there and bio stack things while I'm in the hyperbaric? And you're really reframing my.

• 1:23:43Speaker 00

  No, but if you want to stack, stack by breathing, stack by meditating. Cause you gotta meditate anyway, right? I mean, it's all a mindset thing. We know we gotta meditate. You are a captive audience, bro. You're going nowhere and it's only you.

• 1:23:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. Now, I say, my, my wife loves it because no one can talk to her. She's, she's all about the meditation.

• 1:24:03Speaker 00

  She's my people.

• 1:24:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's, you would love, you would love saying, she's like, yeah, don't, anybody talk to me and I'll just go in here by myself.

• 1:24:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:24:10Speaker 01

  Dr. DeTrey, this has been amazing. You're, you're a savage. And I, I, I wind down all of my podcasts by asking my guests the same question. There's no right or wrong answer to this question, but what does it mean to you to be an ultimate human?

• 1:24:26Speaker 00

  Oh, wow. What does it mean to be an ultimate human? So I, I'm guessing for, for me, for Joe, it's living up to the potential that the good Lord gave me, right? So every morning I hit my knees, I thank him for the day and I say, take my hands, tell me what it is you want me to do. And I go off and do whatever it is that he kind of guides me towards, right? So maximizing that potential, I think I'm doing good by helping. I hope, I hope that's what I'm doing is helping people. So, you know, being a good human is a rare quantity today. So just kind of try and help as much as you can and be around long enough to help more people, right? If I can live to 110, which is my goal year, I'm going for 110.

• 1:25:11Speaker 00

  So now I'm barely halfway through my life right now.

• 1:25:13Speaker 01

  Well, let's see how your, how your research comes. I mean, if you, if your research comes out the way that it looks like it is, you take the X Prize, 110's in your mirror.

• 1:25:22Speaker 00

  Easy peasy, right? They're like, oh, they just approved resveratrol in rats and da, da, da, da. Now they're going to move it to humans. And I'm like, yeah, it's the wrong thing. I realize that's a hormetic stress, but that's not what we're looking for.

• 1:25:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:25:34Speaker 00

  Everybody's looking for the quick fix pill.

• 1:25:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's not going to be a resveratrol or NAD or.

• 1:25:39Speaker 00

  You gotta work.

• 1:25:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:40Speaker 00

  The ultimate human works, right?

• 1:25:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:42Speaker 00

  I see what you do here. You walk around this place, you live it.

• 1:25:46Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:25:46Speaker 00

  You literally live it. So you gotta live it and that's the way, it's the only way.

• 1:25:51Speaker 01

  Thank you so much. I'm going to follow your journey. Hopefully you are going to be the finalist for, for the X Prize. I'll have you back on.

• 1:25:58Speaker 00

  Can only hope.

• 1:25:59Speaker 01

  Excited about your research and where it's going. Thank you for shedding so much light on hyperbarracks. This bio hack that really doesn't have an authority in the space. And, and you and Dr. Saunders, I consider he was your student, authorities in the space. And I really appreciate you coming on and clarifying.

• 1:26:16Speaker 00

  Anytime, anytime, anything you need.

• 1:26:18Speaker 01

  Thank you so much. And until next time, guys, that's their science.